Markle in 2014.
Meghan Markle (1981- ), a US actress, became the most googled woman in the world in 2016 when it became known she was dating Prince Harry of England. They are set to marry in May 2018. She will no doubt be called Princess Meghan even though strictly speaking she will probably be a duchess.
Markle in 2014, two years before she met Prince Harry:
“Little girls dream of being princesses. I, for one, was all about She-Ra, Princess of Power.”
Markle with her mother in 2017.
Biracial: Markle’s mother is Black, her father White. She considers herself biracial:
“While my mixed heritage may have created a grey area surrounding my self-identification, keeping me with a foot on both sides of the fence, I have come to embrace that. To say who I am, to share where I’m from, to voice my pride in being a strong, confident mixed-race woman.”
Queen Charlotte in 1761.
One Drop: Prince Harry is probably part Black too thanks to Queen Charlotte, great grandmother of Queen Victoria and namesake of Charlottesville, Virginia. European royalty in general has a certain amount of Moorish blood by way of Spain and Portugal.
Racism: An early sign that Prince Harry was serious about Miss Markle came in November 2016 when he condemned the “racial undertones” of news about her and the “outright racism” of Internet trolls.
The British royal family is not known for speaking out against racism. In fact, Prince Harry himself in 2005 once appeared at a party dressed as a Nazi, swastika and all.
Prince Harry in 2005.
Being loved to death: Prince Harry is also concerned for her physical safety. His mother, Princess Diana, died in a car crash in 1997 when photographers were chasing her through the streets of Paris. He was only 12.
Prince Harry, aka Henry Windsor, is currently fifth in the line of succession to the crown. Ahead of him are his father, older brother, and his older brother’s two children (with a third on the way). His grandmother, Queen Elizabeth II, is still queen at age 91.
How to meet a prince: Both Meghan and Harry are philanthropists and met in those circles in 2016. She was global ambassador for World Vision Canada.
Gina Torres and Markle in 2013.
The Before Time:
- From 2011 to 2017 Markle played Rachel Zane, a paralegal on the US television show “Suits”. Gina Torres, power suits and all, is on that show. It gets about 2 million viewers.
- From 2014 to 2017 Markle ran a lifestyle website, The Tig, where she wrote about food, fashion, beauty, and travel.
- Growing up in Los Angeles, her neighbourhood was so White that people thought her mother was a servant. Her father was a lighting director for television shows like “General Hospital” and “Married with Children”. Her mother brought her up to be a global citizen. By age 11 Markle was writing to the First Lady (then Hillary Clinton) about a sexist ad – and got it changed.
Footer for The Tig, 2014.
Her causes: gender equality, clean water in Africa, food banks in North America, slavery (against).
Wild prediction: Black people in the US and Britain will stick up for her but she will not stick up for them.
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (May 19th 2018): Meghan and Harry will be married on Saturday May 19th 2018 at noon London time. That is 7.00am in New York, 4.00am in California and 11:00 GMT. You can watch it live on the Royal Family’s YouTube channel starting a hour beforehand.
Update (May 20th 2018): Some wedding pictures:
See also:
- Meghan Markle: More Than an ‘Other’ – more on her racial identity. See her with unstraightened hair as a child.
- Oprah’s interview of Harry and Meghan – in 2021
- biracial
- One Drop Rule
- Gina Torres
- Belle – being Black and rich in England in the 1700s
- Race in Britain in the 2010s
- Charlottesville riot
- Some of my other predictions
564
Abagond 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/meghan-markle-wont-be-princess-10051214?service=responsive
lol according to this article (but not a different one) her dogs are uk citizens, not her!
my wife took one look at her and said she’s black?
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You know she isn’t marrying Harry to stick up for anyone. She’s marrying someone she loves, and hopefully loves her just as well. I will admit though that this marriage is making a grand social statement for the global community. I say its an evolutionary jump for the future of humans played out on the social stage. Mother Nature knows what she’s doing.
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I also want to say that we were holding out collective Black breaths to see if Harry wasn’t just pulling one of his bachelor stunts before we all started commenting on the situation between him and Meghan. Our Caucasian cousins of course jumped into it with such a nasty racial bashing that Harry had to rebuke the snarling pack of dogs to defend his fairy-tale.
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I’ve never seen “Suits” (almost never watch TV of any sort), but recent media accounts of her paint her as a genuinely good person. I got a chuckle out of the “Moorish” reference (involving Harry’s grandma). John Oates (of Hall & Oates) comes from a mostly Sicilian background, but reputedly with some “Moorish” blood. Same with Vivian Cash (first wife of Johnny Cash). I knew a Sicilian dude here who had brown skin, broad nose, and tight, kinky hair. I assumed he was black until he mentioned one day that he was Sicilian and proud of his Italian ancestry.
Interestingly, the term “Moorish” doesn’t necessary equate with black under current usage, but if you go to any Cuban restaurant you can order black beans and white rice, typically called “Mores y christianos” — “Moores and Christians”.
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“Black people in the US and Britain will stick up for her but she will not stick up for them.”
I am having trouble understanding this, as well as similar comments on the “More Than an Other” thread.
I suspect that as a white person I’m missing something. This is a sincere question and request for an explanation.
I don’t know much about Meghan Markle except for what I’ve read in the last couple days, so it could also be that I’m ignorant about questionable things she may have said or done in the past.
How it seems to me right now is that she could have easily chosen to pass for white and hidden her blackness. She appears to have known this choice was open to her even in childhood, since at least one white authority figure (the teacher) told her that she should identify as white.
She could have cut off ties with the black half of her family, constructed an all-white identity for herself, and refused to let her TV character be portrayed as having a black parent.
Instead, she seems to have taken numerous opportunities to stress that, regardless of how many people view her appearance, she is half black.
What am I missing? Has she not been vocal enough about her blackness? Or maybe only in ways that don’t threaten her career? Maybe she has not been supportive of African American causes?
Is it because she identifies as mixed-race rather than black?
Is it because she straightens her hair, which does make her appear more European than she might otherwise?
Is it because–regardless of how she herself may identify and feel–so much white privilege accrues to her because of her appearance?
I guess what I’m asking is whether she herself is giving off cues that I’m missing? Or is this more of a distrust based in how many other white-appearing mixed-race celebrities have acted in the past?
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@ Solitaire
“…is this more of a distrust based in how many other white-appearing mixed-race celebrities have acted in the past?”
Yes. When a group of people have been publicly thrown under the bus a number of times, they develop tender spots from unhealed wounds.
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Solitaire said
Interesting questions.
In the UK I think it is unlikely that anyone would have mistaken her for white. Over the last few years there has been such an emergence of people from mixed race heritage making it in to the mainstream, many of whom have similar skin tones or even lighter. Most people I would guess would definitely correctly note that she is mixed but, they may not know what that mix was – she may appear racially ambiguous to some people.
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I have read many think pieces in regards to Markle and Harry especially in the UK that when a black woman marries a white man it’s considered “marrying up.” As a black woman this to me is offensive and ludicrous. I think it’s sad that there is a large segment of black people who feel that “whiteness “ has more value on the human social hierarchy. Also there are conversations about black people not valuing marriage and black women not finding suitable marriage partners among black men. And black women choosing white men to date and marry. This is a very complex age we are living in.
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@ Afrofem
Thank you for the explanation.
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@Solitaire: I do have a distrust of racially ambiguous people like her and other celebrities. She has had lots of privilege and as Afrofem said about being part of a group who has been thrown under the bus and developing wounds and having tender spots that’s very succinct.
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@ Mary Burrell
That makes sense.
At the same time, I think it must be painful for racially ambiguous people to be automatically distrusted by the group or groups they identify with.
But I can also see why that distrust would exist.
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@ Omnipresent
I wonder if in the U.S. it is because we have a long history of people who look like her passing for white. Is there not a similar history in the U.K.?
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In regards to little black girls being princesses and Disney announcing the first black princess for The Princess And The Frog, Tatiana the princess in the film meets a racially ambiguous prince to me this is a cop out on Disney’s end. Why couldn’t they have a black prince for Tatiana? And then Disney drops the ball again when Tatiana and the prince end up being frogs. But if he had a black president, there’s hope for a dark skinned, natural haired princess.
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*But if we had a black president * typo^^^^
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Hope Harry’s grand parents and the rest of the House of Windsor treat her better than they treated Diana, they were awful to her.
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@Solitaire
I think I get this right away. It is kinda like how Obama didn’t really stick up for black people. Their status is so dependent on white people that they must maintain that support structure, even if it means the occasional (or even frequent) throwing of black people under the bus. Despite all that, the existence of a black person, or even a biracial person in that position in a white-oriented society is still something to have some kind of respect or admiration for.
This is NEVER easy. Have you personally known many multiracial persons? Even Malcolm X wrote about the precarious position that those who decide to try to pass as white face. It takes a major psychological toll on your conscience and fear that you might be found out.
The problem is that you have already assumed that she has a choice and she should somehow make that choice. Yes, some multiracial people decide to make that choice, but having such a choice forced on you when you do not want to be forced to make a choice is not a very comfortable position to be in. How can you make a choice when you see them all as as part of you? How can you make a choice when you feel you have to choose one parent over the other? If feels like a very nasty and distressing choice.
Do you applaud someone like Anatole Broyard who decided to make that choice (and I surmise it wasn’t easy either, he toyed back and forth) and then not tell his children or his colleagues about his choice and did not allow anyone to see him with his black relatives?
Regarding distrust of multiracially identified persons (aka “multiracial”) by monoracially identified persons (aka, “monoracial”), it should be obvious to both groups why this happens. I think the vast majority of monoracials always have the nagging feeling that a multiracial is either trying to be accepted by them, or who may, at the turn of a hat, turn against them. So, the monoracial always has to ascertain which side they stand on, and if that is not clear to them (eg, for those persons who are reluctant to make that choice), then you cannot trust them hold a certain set of racially aligned self-interests.
This would be different if there are enough of them to form their own group, eg, coloreds in South Africa, Eurasians in Singapore, Metis in Canada or Hapa in Hawaii (and perhaps also in California too). Then they may feel less pressure to assert their racial alignment,or feel more freedom to create a new one.
You must have seen it before with Native Americans, many of whom are already multiracial. Most of the ones in the Chesapeake Bay region, as well as some in North Carolina are triracial. Yet some of their “members” have decided to “go black” or “go white”, and then try to claw back to the tribe, and then are not trusted by the ones who did not do that.
Sometimes people who marry interracially face this mistrust by monoracials, but I hardly see this happen. Most monoracials who marry persons with other racial identities, still maintain their original racial identity.
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Solitaire said:
I wonder if in the U.S. it is because we have a long history of people who look like her passing for white. Is there not a similar history in the U.K.?
There probably are. But I suspect in the U.S this is further reinforced by this one drop rule that has been prevalent in America. I cant say that this is the same in the U.K. Generally if someone looked white and identified as such a lot of people would accept it. I have seen some questionable individuals identifying as white in the past. I leave them to it – it must be an uncomfortable existence denying a part of yourself.
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@ Jefe
By “easy” I meant that her appearance is such that physically it would be easy. Her physical appearance is more phenotypically white than many other half-black half-white individuals (e.g., Obama).
I understand that psychologically it is devastating. I don’t like the fact that society puts so much pressure on mixed-race people to choose sides.
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@ Jefe
“The problem is that you have already assumed that she has a choice and she should somehow make that choice.”
I thought I made it very clear in my original question that I understood she had made a choice to embrace both sides of her racial heritage.
If I didn’t express overt approval of that choice, it was due to the nature of my question about why a number of black commenters here seem skeptical about whether she really does fully embrace her black side.
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One reason I find Meghan Markle interesting is that I know a young woman — someone I have watched grow up from a toddler until now in her early 20s –who looks very much like the photo of Markle as a child on the other thread.
This young woman is also the child of a white father and a black mother. Due to her father’s tragically young death, she has been mostly raised in a monoracial black household. (Her white father’s family is involved in her life, but they live in another state a day’s drive away.)
She is actually lighter in complexion than Markle. She has never straightened her hair, which looks much like Markle’s in that childhood photo, but still most people meeting her for the first time assume she is white, not mixed.
She identifies as biracial but due to her upbringing is more familiar with and comfortable in an African American environment. But because of her phenotype, she is not always accepted quickly.
On the other hand, there have been times when, once a white person finds out she is half-black, their attitude towards her changes. There were some difficulties with white teachers over this at various points in her K-12 education.
I understand her point of view better than I do the skepticism being expressed on these threads. From what Afrofem and Mary Burrell have explained, I can now see that there is a protective defensiveness involved that I hadn’t taken into account.
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re: Solitaire
I surmise that you mean regardless of how difficult it might be for her psychologically, it would be easy for her to do it socially, due to the perception that some have of her physical appearance.
I don’t think so.
I saw many of these kinds of people when I was growing up (eg, DC/MD/VA area, Alabama, etc.). Very few white people would simply let her pass as white, but they might be willing to overlook her black heritage if she demonstrated that she embraced white culture and identity.
This would be more likely inside or around the Beltway. In the VA or MD hinterlands and definitely in Alabama, it would be very unlikely, even in the 21st century.
But indeed, 100 years ago, they would have 3 choices
– remain black
– pretend to be something else (eg, “Black Dutch”) to explain their swarthy complexion and coloring
– move up North, change their identity and cut themselves off from their family (eg, Anatole Broyard’s case).
Now, in the 21st century, there is another choice — being multiracial, tick more than one box, etc. Now that this choice is available, that might be an option for some. This choice is more widely available in the “blue” cities and counties, In very “red” areas, they can still identify as multiracial, but they must communicate or display their racial affiliation (ie, be more “white” than the whites).
But even a multiracially identified person has to make choices when they grow up, ie, their social group, who they will date and marry and have children with. Some may feel less pressure if they end up marrying another multiracial person, but the choice of a multiracially identified person marrying a white person (or black or Asian for that matter) now exists too.
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@ Solitaire
“…society puts so much pressure on mixed-race people to choose sides.”
There is really no great mystery about why bi-racial and multi-racial people might feel pressure to “choose sides”.
If their parents are from two groups that are mistrustful and hostile to one another that pressure will exist. If their parents are from two groups that like and trust each other or share similar cultural values that pressure may be minuscule or non-existent.
I’ve met people whose parents have similar phenotypes and whose cultures share many similarities. One person had a Mexican mother and an Iranian father. Another person had a Native American mother and a Filipino father. In those cases, the bi-racial persons felt very little pressure “to choose” because there was little or no friction between the two families or their racial/ethnic groups.
That is not the case between Black and White racial/ethnic groups in the USA. There is a history of deep divisions, violence and pain. White Americans have oppressed Black Americans for centuries. Black people are still treated like things instead of humans by White people.
For Black/White bi-racials and multi-racials to complain about “choosing sides” indicates a profound ignorance of US history and society or mental dullness. There is also the issue of privilege based on how close the bi/multi-racial person is to the European phenotype.
Individuals who exhibit more of the non-Black parent’s coloring and features may find it easier to check that “other” box. Canadian writer, Lawrence Hill describes that situation in his book, Black Berry, Sweet Juice: On Being Black And White In Canada. He quotes his singer-songwriter brother, Dan Hill:
page 82
A video of Dan Hill singing one of his top grossing hits, Sometimes When We Touch:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATz8ZVTALo)
Privilege and choice. Since Dan Hill is White appearing, he gets to jettison race from his mind. If he were were darker with African textured hair he might not have the choice or privilege of not thinking about race. Lack of awareness can be lethal for Black people.
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@ jefe
I find curious that you mentioned all those countries above but not Brazil, where we have probably the highest contingent of mixed race people worldwide. Maybe it’s because you are not much acquainted with that society. Or maybe it’s this anglophone bias that make many people look only at anglophone societies and think ah look, this is the world as it works!
On another note: I think too that the situation where mixed race people are numerous enough and had already the opportunity to build their own group it’s
where they are better on. Other mixed race individuals can give each one the opportunity to see a role model in action and not feel themselves like a bizarre thing. But first generation mixed individuals – with parents from different races – always will exist in a limbo where a sense of connection to different worlds (two, three; the two where they come from, of their parents; and the third where they are going to join, etc) with their contradictions will always be there.
Yet another reflection: as painful it can be for Black people I think that when we have a society where there are two groups “A” and “B”, where “A” is seen in the daily interactions as superior to “B” then, with the emergence of a in-between mixed-race third group “C”, the “B” will be relegated to a further inferior position even relative to “C”. What could prevent that is the behavior of group “A” vis-a-vis the group “C”. If the members of group “A” put effort of distantiating themselves from any social connection with members of group “C” (as it happened in Apartheid society and also some other places) then members of group “C” have no alternative as to remain close to themselves or to open some connection to the inferior group “B”. But if or when group “A” recognize their connection to group “C” then many members of “C” will see it as a open route to join group “A”. This is the case of the Latin American world. In such case members of group “C” – the mixed-race individuals – will tend not to want to be associated with group “B”.
I remember a case of two young mulatto girls in Maputo whom I was initiating in the use computers (a one month course) in the middle of the nineties. In our conversations they told me that in their family there was no Black person, not even a great-grandfather. I was curious and asked them how they thought they had that appearance. They told me they didn’t know but no, they had no Black ancestor! Because of their age I came to the conclusion that their parents omitted that detail of their ancestry during their family conversation (like parents oft don’t explain to young kids how they were born!)
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M. Markle won’t be the first person of black African ancestry to become part of the British aristocracy. Natalia The Duchess of Westminster is a descendant of Alexander Pushkin, therefore, a descendant of Pushkin’s great grandfather Abram Petrovich Gannibal. Her grandson, Hannibal Van Custem honors that ancestor by being named after him.
Black people have had intimate relations with Harry’s family as far back as 1932 when Edwina Mountbatten was rushed to a hospital to separate her from her boyfriend, the singer and pianist, Leslie ‘Hutch’ Hutchinson. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1085883/The-royal-gigolo-Edwina-Mountbatten-sued-claims-affair-black-singer-Paul-Robeson-But-truth-outrageous-.html
92 years ago such marriage would have been a scandal and an abomination to respectable society. The divorce of Leonard “Kip” Rhinelander to Alice Jones was litigated because his family claimed she lied about her race.
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@ gro jo
Thanks for the link. Very juicy!
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@ Afrofem
You make very good points.
I do wonder about this, though:
“For Black/White bi-racials and multi-racials to complain about “choosing sides” indicates a profound ignorance of US history and society or mental dullness.”
Is ignorance really the only thing at play?
I have met bi-racial people who seem to have a very good grasp of history and society, who when it comes to racial issues are strongly aligned with their non-white side, but who still identify as bi-racial and who still complain that they are often made to feel like they’re being asked to choose between their mother and their father.
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I got curious about Dan Hill and found this article from 2013 which in part discusses the different ways he and his two siblings approached being bi-racial:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/insight/2009/02/08/my_father_my_self_the_journey_of_dan_hill.html
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That should be “an article from 2009”. For some reason it has 2013 after the reporter’s byline.
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Wow, I never knew about this. This is news to me.
I always thought he looks like exactly what he is.
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@ Jefe
In 1977 he released a song about his parents, which appeared on the same album as his big hit “Sometimes When We Touch.”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORKhRBiPvs)
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@ gro jo: Thanks for that link it was salacious.
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@Afrofem:
@Solitaire:
I have always love that song Sometimes When We Touch. Just thought it was a white dude all these years. I always wondered if Phobe Snow was mixed race as well?
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@Afrofem: Dan and Lawrence Hill’s father had some real external oppression stuff going on. It’s strange he worked in Civil Rights but wanted the family to dial down the blackness, that’s disturbing too me.
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I have a comment parked in moderation due to a YouTube link.
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@ Mary Burrell
That’s an interesting question about Phoebe Snow. A fast search only brought up that she was Jewish. I did find a 2009 article where she said that she’d been asked about being African American so often she was going to get a DNA test done to see if there was black heritage in her family that she’d never been told about. But so far I haven’t been able to find out whether she had the test done before she passed away.
https://pagesix.com/2009/02/12/is-phoebe-as-white-as-snow/
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This is the family she’s marrying into
The same family that wants to de-populate Africa
https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-11-06-prince-william-argues-for-urgent-depopulation-efforts-in-africa.html
Our only use 2 Whites is livestock. We can’t keep getting giddy at every instance of their denigrating milking our DNA & calling it inclusion. The Nazi will suck her blood & leave her children bereft of blackness mind body & soul:i don’t know one sista who cheers this.
I know feminists over social media are rejoicing this but I always remember this
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How the hell did anybody mistake Dan Hill for a white guy? He looks exactly like what he is on the video where he sings “Sometime when we touch”. His face is typically Negroid.
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@GoJo:
Ditto! His son went through a Peola phase but in reverse.
Click to access Every-Parents-Nightmare-McLeans-Feb09.pdf
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The full Susan B. Anthony quote ends with the words “and not for women”. In context, she made this statement during a debate over whether demands for the vote for women should be dropped to concentrate on winning the right for black men.
It still is a problematic quote, but in its truncated form it suggests Anthony was vehemently opposed to black suffrage, which isn’t true.
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oh please everyone can vote except my brother excons in a few back-a$$ward states look we’re at unbelievable
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gotta say this got under my skin today! i didnt read it yet
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@ Mary Burrell
“It’s strange he worked in Civil Rights but wanted the family to dial down the blackness…”
I’m not too surprised by the elder Hill’s behavior for several reasons:
✦ just because a person fights against oppression doesn’t mean they love themselves.
✦ like other Black people, colorism ran rampant in his family. Colorism is a problem nationwide, but is intense in the DC area. My relatives in that part of the country tell the most lurid stories about local Blue Vein Societies* and light-skinned Black folk who marry their cousins in their quest for pale European appearing children.
✦when the Hill’s moved to Canada, they moved into an all-White neighborhood. Perhaps the elder Hill wanted his kids to “blend in” as much as possible.
✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵✵
*Blue Vein Societies are groups of pale-skinned Black people who exclude anyone too dark to see the blue veins in their arms. In the early and mid 20th century their motto was “lighter and lighter with each generation until we are White.”
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@ Herneith
Thanks for the link to the article by Dan Hill.
I keep thinking if D. Hill had exposed his children to ordinary Black people on a regular basis, his son might not have confused Blackness with Hip Hop culture or criminality. His son romanticized Black men as hyper-masculine hoodlums and fell in with a bad crowd.
It is telling that Hill shipped his kid off to hyper-White Vancouver, WA (in the States, no less) to bring about a course correction. A lot of Black parents would love to have the option of sending a wayward child off to a safe place.
Money can be handy.
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@ Solitaire
“…who still identify as bi-racial and who still complain that they are often made to feel like they’re being asked to choose between their mother and their father”
You make a good point. I’m sure there are a lot of bi-racial and multi-racial people who feel that way.
I think the feeling of being asked to choose between one parent or another may indicate a child’s understanding of racial identity. Children think in simple, binary terms and don’t understand that inner integration is possible. Perhaps that is why that conflict is most intense through puberty and early adulthood.
It is my understanding from talking to and reading the works of people who have moved past that phase, that part of coming into adulthood is hammering out a personal identity that integrates both or all aspects of their heritage. That will be different for each person according to their needs and worldview.
That process may involve adding and discarding portions of their identity as various configurations bring about different lessons. For example, I read about a (Black Father/White Mother) bi-racial woman whose father insisted that she be raised as a Black child. She even attended an HBCU and submerged her White heritage until adulthood.
When she reached adulthood, she tried on different White identities, denying her Black identity. It was not until she created a synthesis that worked for her, honoring both aspects of her heritage that she fashioned an identity that worked for her. Not easy when your heritage flows from two mutually hostile groups.
That situation and others brings to mind the words of Octavia Butler Scholar and writer, Adrienne Maree Brown. She described other bi-racial/multi-racial people she met as, “…people who seemed confused, depressed, distraught, or insecure. They felt like constant outsiders or pretended to be solely one race or another. Many were children of divorces or separations caused by cultural differences.”
Those separations from one parent or another likely hinder development of healthy identities that honor all aspects of their heritages.
Brown continues:
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/america-the-remix/generation-mixed-breaking-the-race-barrier
I agree with Brown that honoring your whole self and all of your heritages means that you don’t have to pretend, overcompensate or throw people who represent the hated part of yourself under the bus. The love a person has for themselves becomes an attractant instead of a repellent. That inner integration inspires trust instead of mistrust.
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@ Afrofem
I agree with everything you wrote above.
I have heard biracial adults also frame it as being pressured to choose between their mother and their father, but I think that when adults say this, it is often a simplification for their listeners. It seems to be shorthand for the type of cohesive identity you described, their way of saying they cannot be split in half.
That long history of colorism must play into the distrust and skepticism about biracial people. I need to keep that in mind.
I understand very well that when white people don’t accept biracial people, it is solely rooted in racism. I need to remember it is more complex on the other side of the divide. People of color who are monoracial have to prove themselves over and over again to whites and constantly face rejection from whites, so when biracial people complain about a lack of acceptance from their non-white side, perhaps the knee-jerk response is something like, “Poor baby, join the club”?
The more I learn, it seems increasingly to me that it isn’t just multiracial people who go through a struggle with their identity, but everyone who isn’t white in a white-dominated society. It isn’t fair and it isn’t right. This is an aspect of white privilege, isn’t it?
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Herneith, thanks for the link to the article by Dan Hill. The story resonated with me.
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@ Solitaire
I wonder if a certain percentage of people in all ethnic groups have identity issues? Maybe identity isn’t always tied to appearance or social structures.
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@ gro jo
“His face is typically Negroid.”
You think so.
If you didn’t know there was a African person “in the woodpile”, he could easily pass for Mediterranean, Arab or Latinx.
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@ Afrofem
I’m sure it happens. Just from my own standpoint, I definitely worked through a process of integrating my southern and midwestern selves. I don’t have a strong connection to any of my ethnic heritages (I don’t even assume I know all of them), and at times I really feel that lack. In a way, midwestern is my culture of place (since I grew up there) and southern is my equivalent to an Old World ethnic culture that my parents carried with them (food, dialect, etc.)
But it seems pretty clear to me that whatever identity crisis I may have gone through growing up, it’s nothing compared to growing up non-white in a society where white is the default.
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“If you didn’t know there was a African person “in the woodpile”, he could easily pass for Mediterranean, Arab or Latinx.”
Why do you think some of these types are labeled “sand” African persons by whites? Look at Dan Hill and Juan De Pareja’s painting by Velazquez and tell me why anybody took Hill’s claim to be ‘white’ seriously? He must have insisted on that label because he doesn’t look white.
https://spectator.imgix.net/content/uploads/2014/11/juan-de-pareja-by-velazquez.jpg?auto=compress,enhance,format&crop=faces,entropy,edges&fit=crop&w=620&h=413
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Reading Herneith’s article you can see that Hill clings to his delusion that he has nothing in common with regular black people. It is a constant in his life.
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it’s ok i started a response to the univ of texas guy, it’s finally something to write about on my blog, of course things are a bit ‘inchoate’ at the moment
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the theme is generational, i think its supposed to be spelled intergenerational responsibility concept and ‘white cultural identity’ like that, even, then, yet
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if not me, then who? lol
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well just like back to balfour (and sykes picot) categorization do lead to calamity, just another fine example
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@Afrofem: Thanks for sharing and enlightening me about the “blue vein society “ I briefly watched Real Housewives Of Potomac. The light skinned women on the show keep going on and on about being light skinned and looking white and being of a certain social class. Your post helped me to understand what this preoccupation with skin tone and economic social class of that community is about.
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Mary Burrell said:
I briefly watched Real Housewives Of Potomac. The light skinned women on the show keep going on and on about being light skinned and looking white and being of a certain social class.
My other half watches this show. What surprised me was that one of their number, I think the name is Kate (whoever she was she was desperate to get married), was perplexed and confused that these ladies identified as black. Ok, they have blue/green eyes but this is not the first or the last time we have seen this in PoC. If I’m honest, the only person going on about this I think was her and to an extent the young girl dating the older guy. It seemed to be a ‘thing’ for them both. I didn’t watch it regularly though so if I am wrong I stand corrected.
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oh lord she watches little women and real housewives of all of them so yes ive seen all them too
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@Omnipresent: I only watched one episode and couldn’t stand anymore. I just happened to observe that foolishness.
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v8driver said:
oh lord she watches little women and real housewives of all of them so yes ive seen all them too
LOL, Mate, I feel your pain. They all blend in to one after a while.
Mary Burrell said:
@Omnipresent: I only watched one episode and couldn’t stand anymore. I just happened to observe that foolishness.
Lol. I understand.
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The Brits are just less uptight than you guys. The Nazis weren’t just racists, they were enemies of the UK as well. It doesn’t mean that he doesn’t like his own country.
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Most Black Americans have some European blood in them, some more recent than others. Do they all suffer from the tragic mullatto syndrome? What it boils down to is this; The closer the person is to white, phenotypically, perhaps some of that privilege may rub off. In a Utopian world, such things wouldn’t matter, we are obviously ain’t in one.
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Will Meghan Markle invite Donald Trump for her wedding ceremony?
Or reject him as an unwanted racist uncle?
Food for thought:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/27/opinions/prince-harry-trump-wedding-opinion-filipovic/index.html
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/racist-uncles/
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Prince Harry’s grandfather was thick with the Nazis in his youth. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167585/Philip-Nazi-funeral-day-sister-lunch-Hitler-TV-documentary-reopens-painful-chapter-duke-s-family-past.html
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Also, Charlotte, NC was named after Queen Charlotte.
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Update: and Harry will be married on Saturday May 19th 2018 at noon London time. That is 7.00am in New York, 4.00am in California and 11:00 GMT. You can watch it live on the Royal Family’s YouTube channel starting a hour beforehand:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42MQJX4KoY)
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Already married!
Happy marriage to them! Hurrah!
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Lots of Black culture on display The Kings Choir singing Stand By Me was very nice. And the Reverend Michael Curry was an eloquent orator he was not dry and stuffy like I thought he would be. I actually have to say it was a lovely affair.
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@Abagond: Why is my comment in moderation?
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To my surprise the Royal wedding was quite lovely.
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The Kingdom Choir was incredible and their Choir mistress with her fierce silver hair. I loved that.
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Reverend Michael Curry from Chicago was impressive. Lots of melanin on display.
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I liked how the wedding was both Black and White, both British and American.
I wish for them to have a long and happy life together.
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These last two couple of months have been horrendous especially in regards to social justice and the imbecilic shenanigans in our United States government with our disgrace of a leader. The Royal wedding is actually a nice distraction. I am shocked that I actually enjoyed it.
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I usually avoid royal weddings, but it sounds like I may have to watch the highlight reels of this one. Very glad to hear that the ceremony wasn’t white-washed.
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I added some wedding pictures.
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When Harry lifed Megan’s veil I knew his love for her was genuine. The way his face lit up and I saw him mouth the words “ You look Amazing, I’m so lucky.” That kind of got me in my feelings. It’s such a tragedy that Diana had to die, and not be there for her son’s special day. I feel she was with them in spirit.
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Jesus, black people are so sappy. Never mind the fact that she’s marrying into a family that made a mint on the slave trade for centuries, never mind the fact that queen Charlotte was mixed race and that a descendant of Pushkin was the wife of the uncle of Harry’s grandfather. Never mind the fact that these facts changed nothing in the status of blacks in the western world. My, didn’t they look sweet?
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My main thought was all the people lining the road to watch the procession or whatever are still modern day peasants basically. In suits and ties.
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@gro jo;
My sentiments, more or less, exactly.
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@gro jo, Herneith
I was just feeling very alone for not caring, so thanks.
Besides, Royal Weddings are seldom for love.
PR, succession planning, diplomacy, bearding of gay royals, but seldom love.
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@ gro jo @ Herneith @ Origin
Good points. LOL!
It was a grand spectacle and diversion.
I just want to know how it will be for them once the love/dopamine chemical cocktail has abated. It usually takes about three years for them to wear off. Then a couple has to face reality with each other and the in-laws. That is where the rubber hits the proverbial road. The gushing and blushing are over at that point.
While I wish them both well, you couldn’t pay me to marry into the Windsor family. It is basically a business masquerading as a family. She will need to hone her acting skills to stay afloat in that environment.
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@ gro jo
It is hard not to feel sappy after seeing a wedding.
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To each his own. When should we expect the series of pictures fawning over them like the ones you did for Obama and his family?
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@ Afrofem
Me too.
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@ Afrofem
The white side of Meghan Markle’s family seems very dysfunctional, so maybe she already has practice…
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@ Solitaire
Good point.
We don’t know how shallow and dysfunctional she is as a person. She may thrive in her new environment. We shall see….
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So now that the royal baby is born crazy conversations about how “black” will the royal baby be? I am let out a huge sigh. I wish the culture would just let these folks live in peace and enjoy being new parents.
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Typo: ^^^ I let out a huge sigh.
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He will be as black as Casper the friendly ghost.
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Who knew “Princessing “ would be so hard? So now she’s crying about how hard her life is. The British press is brutal and probably racist, but she signed up for this. It’s hard for me to feel bad for her when she’s pampered and privileged. She needs to keep a stiff upper lip, as the Brits say. Black working class women are working and doing what they have to do to make living, taking care of families and just trying to exist. I am playing a tiny violin in regards to this chick crying about those mean white Brits.
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I am now so used to thinking of her as British royalty that it seems strange to hear an American accent coming out of her mouth.
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Poor little rich girl needs to put on her big girl pants. Again, she signed up to get this Royal bag.
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While I’m sure everyone enters into marriage with nothing but pragmatism in their hearts, I still have a fairly strong hatred for tabloids. To me, they’ve always targeted the worst parts of humanity within us. The success of conspiracy-spinning, truth-twisting, sensationalist trash plays upon the same wanton ignorance that is responsible for countless atrocities.
I really despise them, along with their tiny counterparts, memes, and the Alex Joneses, Rush Limbaughs, Donald Trumps and countless other mouthpieces that leverage lies, conspiracy and our built-in desires to solve puzzles and feel better about ourselves.
Is global warming really caused by vegans releasing more methane gas?
Is Open Minded Observer secretly a former Senator from Wisconsin?
Did Donald Trump tell aids that he could beat Elizabeth Warren at Scrabble?
Did Prince Harry and Prince William invent their “feud” to draw attention away from Meghan Markle?
Admit it… your brain paused a second on at least one of those. It’s all trash and those were nice. I can only imagine what it would be like to be on the receiving end of hateful headlines.
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“For all the vitriol of royal commentators, it’s national racism in self-denial that has driven the Sussexes abroad, says Dani Garavelli”
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/dani-garavelli-royal-commentators-will-never-see-the-world-through-meghan-markle-s-eyes-1-5073636
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/meghan-markle-prince-harry.amp.html
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@Afrofem
Afrofem, you were like a prophet!
Harry’s family has already behaved not properly, according to the testimony of the couple during a recent interview with Oprah Winfrey. And this was a root reason why they “divorced” from it a while ago.
But at least they found a solution to the problem! See,
https://www.voanews.com/usa/meghan-accuses-uk-royals-racism-says-she-was-suicidal
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People seldom think and we all know that condemnation before investigation is a true sign of ignorance. Harry dressed up for Halloween. It’s about monsters and scary things. Nazis were and still are scary and frightening monsters.
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I think Harry crossed a line when he dressed as a nazi for Halloween. Halloween costumes should be funny monsters, not real monsters. OTOH, it’s ok to dress as a nazi if you are an actor (maybe that was the case?)
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@ Abagond
Interesting idea. And how do you see that prediction after all this time? (Not) Confirmed?
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