Note: For August 2017 I am on a 1949 media diet, so everything in this post is by word of mouth. Next month I will fact check it, add pictures and quotes, and repost it. In the meantime:
The Charlottesville riot (August 12th 2017) is my name for what killed one person and injured dozens as violence broke out in Charlottesville, Virginia between those protesting for and against bringing down a statue of Robert E. Lee, a Confederate general. Lee fought against the United States in the American Civil War to uphold black slavery.
Heather Heyer, who was killed, was protesting against the statue. She was run over by James Alex Fields, Jr, who was for keeping the statue up. He drove his automobile into anti-Lee protesters, injuring over a dozen people. Both Heyer and Fields were white. Fields lives in Ohio and is from Kentucky. He fled the scene but police caught him and arrested him.
Pro-Lee protesters were white. Among them were David Duke, the Klan (anti-black terrorists), neo-Nazis (anti-Semites) and the alt-right (white nationalists). The Klan did not feel the need to hide their faces under their white hoods. Duke, who used to head the Klan, said they were there to take back America, as President Trump wants.
(insert David Duke quote here, 20 to 40 words)
Anti-Lee protesters were both black and white, maybe other races too. Among them was Black Lives Matter. The anti-Lee protest was in reaction to the pro-Lee protest, not the other way round.
President Trump was slow to condemn Fields or Duke. It took him two days, even though the press had asked him about it several times the next day. And then he largely undid his belated condemnation! As if in his heart of hearts he sides with Duke and company. In 2016, when running for president, Trump was slow to condemn Duke then too.
(insert President Trump quote here, 20 to 40 words)
The police were not heavy-handed like they are when blacks or Indians protest (Ferguson, #NoDAPL, etc) – even though the pro-Lee protesters were armed.
The governor, who had made no decision on whether to take down the statue, did so once the protests turned violent: he decided the statue of Lee will come down. The pro-Lee protests had backfired.
Terrorism: Neither Trump nor the police accused Fields of terrorism – even though Trump is quick to condemn Moslems who drive automobiles into crowds as terrorists.
None of this surprises me. Not the protests for and against, not the violence, not a white man acting just like a Moslem terrorist and yet not being called a terrorist, not the Klan-friendly reaction of the police and the president. None of it. Given who is president, it was just a matter of time.
– Abagond, 2017.
Update (2019): I am not going to update the body of the post. I would rather keep it as a pristine example of my 1949 media diet. The main thing it gets wrong is that Trump said that Fields was “maybe” a terrorist. The main thing it leaves out is the now iconic image of White men marching with tiki torches. And that they were chanting “Jews will not replace us!” Here is one of the tiki torch pictures:
See also:
- my 1949 media diet
- Not in H.G. Wells:
- alt-right
- neo-Nazis
- #NoDAPL
- Ferguson
- Black Lives Matter
- Klan
- David Duke
- Guide to Trump
- The term “terrorist”
- Confederate flag
531
Abagond 
The White supremacists are claiming victimhood. Yet, they are the ones who came armed with automatic weapons.
Saw this on Twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/lakez/status/896844932211765248/photo/1
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How does honoring wanna-be secessionists prove your patriotism and American pride? How does that even work? Who do they think they are fooling? Attachment to confederacy paraphernalia is all about fantasizing about an alternate reality in which the blatant injustices exemplified by that failed, conquered state continued to the present day.
As usual though, I’m going to go against the tendency to distill everything down to “Trump”. Obama was president when Dylann Roof massacred nine black churchgoers in Charleston. What we face passes through many guises but it is always there and is multi-generational.
When Obama was president they felt threatened, with Trump as president they feel emboldened. Yet, what is the practical difference when they act they SAME way towards us in either case? When we manage to deprioritize the game of whack-a-mole with the symptoms we’ll hunker down for the long haul of securing ourselves.
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Trumps empty words mean nothing. Black people have been fighting hatred since time immemorial but it takes a white person getting killed to open their eyes. White people live in bubbles so in order for them to be cognizant of what happens to black people on a daily basis something has to affect them. Rest In Peace to those who perished.
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The Republicans need to own up to inviting racist into their party. Steve Bannon and his Breitbart social media site is home of the alt-right who are nothing but white supremacist. Trump ran his campaign on hate.
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The recent events in Charlottesville and the reactions that followed from different quarters are very informative:
Heather Heyer, who was killed, was protesting against the statue.
This casualty is unfortunate. A human life lost.
The fact that this casualty belonged to group “B” made it difficult for group “A” to appear as rightful. It seems to be one, if not the main, reason why even conservatives felt the need to criticize group “A”.
Explanatory note: group “A” = alt-right members and their friends; group “B” = people who came to oppose the original marchers, that is, group “A”.
I think that group “B” came essentially to oppose group “A”.
Anti-Lee protesters were both black and white, maybe other races too.
The fact that Whites were also there to protest against the alt-right is a very positive sign of the health of American society. These people are not perfect but they came to put themselves in the cross-hair against open racism. If no White person had come I would be worried about the continuity of minorities in the USA in the long run. The specter of genocide of Blacks or others remain very far away despite any other speculation on the contrary.
President Trump was slow to condemn Fields or Duke.
The behavior of the President clearly showed that he knows where his political base is and feared to openly criticized them, even in face of the public murder of a person. But he is also aware that open racism is considered by many, inside as well as outside the country, as not belonging to modernity. Therefore his endlessly spins and hesitations around the case.
A journalist made a kind of psycho-analytical piece about Trump. See
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/15/opinions/donald-trump-masculinity-maltby-opinion/index.html
The police were not heavy-handed like they are when blacks or Indians protest
The police needed not to be heavy-handed but follow the protocol in such cases (marches/manifestations). From my point of view it seems strange that they haven’t disarmed the people who came with dangerous objects in their hands.
Some people criticize the let-go of the manifestation by the city’s and state’s authorities, but I ask myself if in the USA this is not a right already contemplated in the Constitution (even the right to hateful speech). In some countries there are explicit limits in that regard and for example, in Germany, neo-nazis cannot say whatever they want in public..
5.Terrorism: Neither Trump nor the police accused Fields of terrorism
But a lot of news outlets called the action of Fields as terrorism. A good sign, again, in my opinion.
By the way, I saw a CNN article where they pictured a chart of hate-groups in the United States. One small thing called my attention: there are – apparently – more Black hate-groups than White hate-groups. Is it true? I don’t know what to think about this but it seems that those Black hate-groups at least don’t carry out terrorist activities (that is good!). Viewed from the outside they are pretty invisible. See the CNN article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/charts-explain-us-hate-groups/index.html
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http://herneith.d.pr/kYKECf
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree:
http://herneith.d.pr/Cfws8W
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Republicans have always navigated the fringes of white supremacy. Trump’s just the first in a long time to embrace them with a full-on bear hug.
Trump has not alienated his real base at all. He’s a member, in fact, the chief member. Nobody really thinks he opposes Nazi, Fascist, racist, KKK (etc.) violence.
I actually agree with Spencer on this only an idiot would believe Trump is not pro White Supremacists -it was obvious he wasn’t being sincere in his statements.
There is a difference between a white supremacist and a white extremist and Trumps comments could prove the last straw for some of the business leaders on Trump’s various advisory counsels.
There’s a lot that America’s most high-profile CEO’s will sit quiet for, but few want their companies to be known for associating with white extremism
And Trumps and the Alt Right need to remember there are many, many thousands of blacks and Latinos in the military as well.
A lot of them are officers. And among the white officers and soldiers, a high percentage of them will have had family who fought in the Second World War–AGAINST Nazism and fascism?
If the draft dodger Donald “Spur Foot” Trump imagines the military will fall into unthinking goose-step at his bidding–and follow illegal orders, in a half-witted attempt to prop up his crumbling power–the lunatic may have sadly miscalculated.
The entire mythology of white supremacists basically places them as the unwitting victim of a vast racial conspiracy : The Jews secretly running the world, dark-skinned people overtaking their land, walking off with their jobs, etc.
And you can’t help but think : This is the so-called master race?
So basically their belief system makes them the only people in history so mind-numbingly incompetent that they were conquered and didn’t even notice.
After Hitler went down, there was a reckoning — call Nuremberg. After Trump goes down, and it’s just a matter of time, there will be a reckoning, perhaps not as dramatic as Nuremberg, but anyone who facilitated or enabled or supported Trump in any way will be marked forever.
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Spot on! Thanks for posting
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@ munubantu
“One small thing called my attention: there are – apparently – more Black hate-groups than White hate-groups. Is it true?”
If you’re referring to the second chart, it only appears that way because the black groups are in one wedge while the white groups are divided up into different wedges. The KKK, Christian Identity, Neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, Neo-Nazis, and White Nationalists are all white hate groups.
Also, the article only looks at the number of different groups, not the number of people involved in each group. It may be that each of those black separatist groups has a small membership. In fact, it’s possible that all of them combined might have fewer people than just one white supremacist group. The article should have also looked at base membership numbers to present a more accurate picture.
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Regardless of who started what, we should pay attention to who brought weapons to the rally. One side was clearly anticipating combat, and that is alarming for a number of reasons.
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I will say more when and if time permits, but when are we as black people going to stop thinking that meaningless statues are going to remove racism? We could get lawmakers to take down each and every statue of a racist or symbols of racism and guess what still remains? It is as if we are looking for white racist to hide it so we feel better, but never hold them accountable to do better. Matter of fact just stop expecting them to be different and work on how we can simple recognize the bs and be stronger.
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it’s like remember when the saddam hussein statue came down was that 92 early i believe
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she say get out of the new jersey box; however, we won the civil war for a reason, i shouldn’t say that but it just feels so riiiiiight can i get a yee ha
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Even if they were to burn every Confederate flag and disamantle every Confederate statue all over America the hatred in the hearts of bigots would still remain.
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a question for the ages, miss mary b. what to do. the hate, it is a real thing, i know i can’t be silent other than that, im open to suggestions!
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I was waiting on you to report on this abagond. There’s a lot of subtle racism going on in the US mixed with the blatant racism we see on the internet. I really like the words of the Virginia governor. He told it how it was and this white nationalist, alt- right stuff is getting bad.
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hate, its so pure you must be sure of it all set, setting, all that frfr somebody’s got to pay
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nobody’s really tryin to hear that, wow
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A team of ProPublica’s investigative reporters: A.C. Thompson, Robert Faturechi and Karim Hajj, reported that they spent August 12th on the ground in Charlottesville, VA. They directly witnessed the actions of the police and the protesters.
According to their article, “Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville”, the police were extremely passive as White supremacists engaged in attacks on anti-fascist counter-protesters all day. Thompson and team wrote:
https://www.propublica.org/article/police-stood-by-as-mayhem-mounted-in-charlottesville
Is anyone surprised that the corporate media left these tidbits of information out of their reports?
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In some countries there are explicit limits in that regard and for example, in Germany, neo-nazis cannot say whatever they want in public..
I’ve heard quite a few Americans refer to Germany’s laws regarding hate speech and NS symbols. It’s true that NS symbols and certain forms of hate speech are banned, but I don’t think it makes much of a difference.
More relevant would be to seperate protest and counter-protest with heavy police presence and ban people from bringing weapons. Also protest where it is reasonably expected that crimes will be commited can be banned in Germany.
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@ Afrofem
Wow. Turning a blind eye. It sounds like the president, the police and the press are giving the extremist right a wink and a nod.
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@Afrofem: I heard that same account on one of the podcast i listen to Deray Mckession Pod For The People with Deray. A black UVA student gave the same account. The black female UVA student said one of the white nationalist drew a sword on a black man and she said she went to one of the policeman to ask him “Don’t you see that guy with a sword?” And she said the cop just snickered. That’s probably why they didn’t do anything to those animals attacking that young black guy in the parking garage right next to the police station. I believe a great many cops are white supremacist.
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In my city on this weekend they are planning a demonstration because many in my city want to get rid of the civil war monuments and changing the names of many of the schools here especially the schools where African American children attend school. There is a Robert E.Lee and Stonewall Jackson Elementary school. I just pray that nothing here happens like it did in Charlottesville.
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@ Abagond @ Mary Burrell
A lot of people I know have been describing the police as “the Klan in Blue” for a long time now.
Trump, the media and law enforcement are enabling and helping to embolden these rightwing hooligans. They also have deep support in the general White population. They are probably raking in the donations as we speak.
What bothers me the most is the parade of racist politicians (like the Bushes) and business leaders making loud denunciations about the events in Charlottesville.
Bush senior rode into the White House on the back of racist fearmongering in the form of the Willie Horton ads. Bush junior let the city of New Orleans drown. He helped destroy a Black community that predated the founding of the US republic by more than seven decades.
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“In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.” Martin Luther King
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Ha Ha HAaaaa!!!!
This picture sums up the whole contradiction of the situation.
On the right, we have 23 year old Corey Long. A dark-skinned powerfully built elder care worker, calmly protecting the various residents of city with his long hot powerful….. flamethrower. He is like some powerful player 1 from Contra or Gunstar Heroes or something.
On the left left, we some pot-bellied escapee form a Florida retirement home, a typical opiate-addicted midwestern Klansman. With clones of opiate-addicted midwestern Klansman behind him that Mr. Long must defeat in order to get the hi-score. Watch him impotently wave his flagpole against the Might Mr. Long. Doesn’t he know that cloth is inflammable?
People, this is the future. That non-violent crap will only get you killed.
And remember:
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wow
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Opiates? You forgot about the meth lol
http://uproxx.com/news/white-supremacist-chris-cantwell-cries-warrant/
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Don’t forget the heroin.
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@ michaeljonbarker
Thanks for the link. Violent White supremacists tears are priceless:
No shame what so ever!
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I thought they were bad a$$es. This Cantwell made me ugly cackle. What a turd.😂😂😂😂😂
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This Cantwell moron represents theses white supremacist fools? Are this Nazi-bros embarrassed by him? He is the epitome of failing at life.
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That brother with the flame thrower broke the Internet he’s amazing.
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Thanks mjb, funny video, though I only got halfway through his whining. These people are the biggest self-made losers on the planet. Born white as citizens of a historically white supremacist country that also happens to be the most powerful nation on the planet, still fails, and chooses to develop a victim complex and to blame people who, by default, are below them on the social pecking order. If they didn’t find something external to hate they’d kill themselves (like a disproportionately large number of white men already do). I look at him and I think, “sick and pathetic but also dangerous”, like a rabid dog.
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@Origin: Spot on. Excellent summation.
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I actually interacted with Cantwell on FB a few years back until he blocked me for trolling him.
The F.B.I. has issued a warrent for his arrest and he says he will turn himself in.
He was a white supremacist achtivist so his YouTube account, PayPal account, FB and twitter have all been shut down.
There is a screen shot from Cupid saying he is banned for life. lmao
How I know about Cantwell is he started in libertarian circles until he went full Nazi.
There is a power struggle going on right now within the Libertarian Party between the left and the right in part because of white nationalists in the party and some party leaders refusing to condem Charlotteville.
The Florida Libertarian Party has been taken over by Nazis who are actively recruiting white Hispanic males besides tbe usual whites.
The left libertarians responded by issuing a letter and statement condeming white supremecy and calling out Cantwell and others by name.
http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/liberty-against-fascism-restating-the-obvious-an-open-letter-from-the-libertarian-moveme
The Libertarian Party has been “big tent” but I don’t think it will be able to house both the right and left anymore. It’s unclear presently which side will prevail.
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I ran out of words for this and the soulless individuals who defend this like Tucker Carlson who used the old “Africans had slaves too” argument.
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@ Mary Burrell
You’re not wrong: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/
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I saw this: “Citronellanacht”
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@michaeljonbaker, libertarian has long been a cover for racists who have liberal tendencies in other areas. I hope the group falls apart.
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Infiltration and documenting their online-to-real life activities, and reporting these to sensible people can disrupt their command and control. Think of it as DIY Cointelpro.
http://uproxx.com/news/white-supremacist-chris-cantwell-cries-warrant/
But this is exactly when they are at their most dangerous. Just look at George Sodini and Elliot Rodger.As soon as their identity (not white identity – race is just a proxy) starts to fall apart. Rodger and Sodini used their awkwardness with women for their proxy, but there was always a racial element. We see the move from PUA/MRA to straight white nationalism as skipping the women issues and going straight to the Big Black Conundrum that they need to create their identity around.
And that’s the thing – they only react, never create or act. They aren’t like the Black Pride and Black Power Movements that sought to gain a sense of pride in themselves, they just celebrate traitors and hate people who don’t look like them. They don’t celebrate Mark Twain or country music or bluegrass or the Apollo Program or anything like that.They just hate.
Looking at these guys’ biography its the same damn things. Ressentiment, an inability to let go of past slights, a wish that they had a better, cooler father, trying to be a masculine hero without the hero part, and a dash of the usual lack of empathy. Any wonder why these guys worship Trump? Just re-read American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis. Trump is like the dad they wish they had. But by emulating Trump they are just revealing their true selves. So if Cantrell’s true self is this weeping sadsack of a human being, what does that say about Trump?
This man Cantrell seems to have built up more and more extreme identities for himself over years, based on his SPLC bio. But what extreme is there after white supremacy? And when that tough guy facade gets broken by some sheboon or some effeminate homosexual, what will he do then?
But lets back up to that Popular Strain of American Libertarianism. Some of its more unsavory features seem to be
☛ Hero Worship, based on the admiration of the rich just because they are rich (Elon Musk, Peter Thiel)
☛ Slavish Obedience to authority (“I just want too be law-abiding, sniff..”)
☛ An admiration of Pure Power without restraint
☛ Leader Principle. For some strange reason, they believe that their Leader will always be benevolent, never pull rank, or will be, deep down , or the weakling who uses behind the scenes scheming to achieve power.
We talked about that this in the Jacqueline Craig post, but it bears repeating here. American Libertarianism is another name for Right Authoritarianism.
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@ michaeljonbarker
I am really slow. I just now get your reference: “Citronellanacht”.
The citronella infused tiki torches sported by the White supremacists marchers in C’ville combined with a nod to the infamous Night of Broken Glass or Kristallnacht in 1930s Germany.
Good one.
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This popped up in suggested videos and I found it interesting in view of Cantwell’s video and his obvious sense of being oppressed.
When Victimhood Leads to Genocide
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeYRK16PIlA)
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“…this time we’re going to get them before they get us.”
That statement is at the heart of how White supremacists have been selling their poison to the masses of White Americans for the past twenty years.
Not that they had to work that hard….
Or didn’t have help in the media, etc.,…
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Satanforce said.
“but it bears repeating here. American Libertarianism is another name for Right Authoritarianism.”
Within libertariansim there is a spectrum from left to right. Left libertarians see human value as more important then private property thus a focus on civil and human rights. This strain is by nature anti totalitarian.
I identify loosly aa a left libertarian anarchist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_market_anarchism
That said libertarianism can be a gate way to white supremecy as demenstrated by Cantwell. If the MSM goes back far enough in his past his comnections to the Libertarain Party will come up. He ran for congress in the Libertarain party 5 or 6 years.
There are also libertarian fascists.
This blog piece, written by a fascist, lays out what Right Authortarianism within a “libertarian” framework looks like.
http://www.libertymachinenews.com/itrsquos-time-for-libertarian-fascism.html
There are far more right libertarians then where i am coming from.
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Edit: 5 or 6 years ago.
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satanforce
“And that’s the thing – they only react, never create or act. They aren’t like the Black Pride and Black Power Movements that sought to gain a sense of pride in themselves, they just celebrate traitors and hate people who don’t look like them. They don’t celebrate Mark Twain or country music or bluegrass or the Apollo Program or anything like that.They just hate.”
Right. Almost everything in America already celebrates being white so they have no reason to go out of their way to find “white pride”. That is almost always a smokescreen for hate. Why can so many white people only feel proud when they are stomping on someone else to the extent that they interpret removal of the foot as oppression of whites?
It’s like there are white people that desire everything even the experience of being oppressed. They crave victimhood, and unlike real victims, they often have the power to achieve redress for the imagined oppression. That is the actual prize, the justification to act; they already have the power as they are not real victims.
That’s not to say every white person has a charmed life. You can be born white with the misfortune of having abusive, irresponsible, drug-addicted parents. However, it’s extremely unlikely that your difficulties in life are due to social constructs engineered by black people. You can have the failings and misfortunes common to [wo]man.
However, being white is a social privilege at every level. Even very wealthy black women like Oprah or Serena Williams have faced racial indignities, after “making it”, that poorer whites haven’t. White drug addicts are more likely to be considered worthy of rehabilitation instead of prison. It’s ridiculous to point at “being white” as the basis of a claim of oppression.
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I’m just gonna leave this here: http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-trump-ruined-my-relationship-with-my-white-mother-1797935049
Amazing, but not surprising how the power of hate trumps love for your own child. Although given this, I could see it happening from miles away:
She felt like her white identity was being snubbed by her own flesh and blood, so down she went into the right-wing rabbit hole.
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Afrofem
The White supremacists are claiming victimhood. Yet, they are the ones who came armed with automatic weapons.
Yes, they also claimed that they were civilizing the “New World” when they exterminated indigenous peoples in the Americas, Africa, Australia …
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@Mack Lyons: Panama Jackson’s article on The Root about his tumultuous relationship with his white 45 loving mother gave me pause. It’s another example of how one can still be a racist after being married and have children from a member of a marginalized group and still be a racist. So Panama Jackson will have to choose to accept his white die hard Trump supporting mother and his black children and wife. He got a lot flack for saying blood is not thicker than water. Reading that piece Panama wrote stirred up a lot of feelings in me. I am not a fan of his writing but that’s the best piece he’s written ever since I have been following Very Smart Brothers.
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Now a Berliner riot happening, real time… Hilfe/SOS!
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/19/europe/germany-berlin-rally/index.html
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I’m.nor sure how trust worthy this news site is but the F.B.I. confirmed the uae of informants in both far right groups and Antifa at Charlotteville.
http://truepundit.com/exclusive-fbi-admits-federal-informants-linked-to-deadly-charlottesville-riots-unlikely-to-face-charges/
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Victumhood is a recruitment tool.
http://cathyreisenwitz.com/history-christopher-cantwell/
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There is insurance to protect drivers if they hit a protester.
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This looks like one of the scenarios for organasing internal chaos & havok within a country by some of my compatriots, as it had already been practiced in Estonia. The receipt is as simple as this:
a) find a monument of a desputable historical meaning (e. g. such as a monument of a Soviet soldier in a coountry where about 22,000 persons were forcefully deported to Siberia in 1949);
b) watch the local authorities of an independent community remove it (I am not giving eny evaluation to Trump’s policy here, or to reasons for removing the monument);
c) start / provoke a collective march similar to that of Vulcano’s march in American Gods;
d) throw in some emotions, like some hate and slogans;
e) enjoy the havok.
Trivia: some Russian media refer to the events in Boston as a ‘Protest for Freedom of Speech’.
They didn’t s succeed in putting a puppy president to the power, because a president is not a tsar and there is a parlaiment besides him. Let’s see how their disentegration plan shall work.
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Damn, I meant ‘a puppet president’, of course.
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Calling out the liberals in Charlotteville.
http://theantimedia.org/black-farmer-response-charlottesville-exposes-larger-problem/
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@ michaeljonbarker
Thanks for the link.
I’ve been thinking about the lip service given to anti-racist ideals versus the everyday bigoted actions of many Euro-Americans toward African Americans.
I chuckled when I saw a recent news item about 40,000 “anti-racist” folk marching in Boston, MA. Boston is one of the most segregated and bigoted cities in the USA.
I vividly remember the 1989 Charles Stuart Murder and its aftermath. Boston police terrorized Black men and the entire Black community of Boston. There were reports at the time of Black men of all ages and descriptions who were repeatedly stopped and harassed while the police frantically searched for:
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2014/10/22/the-charles-stuart-murders-and-the-racist-branding-boston-just-cant-seem-to-shake
Turns out, Stuart killed his wife and used the “Imaginary Negro” technique to send the police, city government and local media on a “Negro” goose chase. That chase and the terrorizing of Black Boston ended only when Stuart committed suicide and left behind a confession—–of sorts.
Where did the 40,000 anti-racists start their recent march? Boston’s traditionally Black Roxbury neighborhood.
Talk about ironic.
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“I chuckled when I saw a recent news item about 40,000 “anti-racist” folk marching in Boston, MA. Boston is one of the most segregated and bigoted cities in the USA.”
Those 40,000 went home thinking they made a difference against white supremecy and retuned to their segregated neighborhoods and “color blind” lives.
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TBH, given the context, I won’t take visible disavowal of open white supremacy racism for granted, even when there’s a tinge of hypocrisy. There are people who are congregating to promote white supremacist views so I have to be appreciative of those who will say, “we don’t cosign” even if they aren’t perfect themselves.
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@ Origin
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect the the “anti-racist” marches and rallies are feel-good theater for the yoga pants set. They like their bigotry “post Civil Rights style”. No tiki torch marches, chants of “blood and soil” or provocative flags. Not even any dog whistle diatribes about crime or welfare, etc.
Their style is more discreet:
✾ Calls to the local police when a Black person not in a service uniform (Postal Service, UPS, Fedex or the gas company) is seen walking or driving through their neighborhoods.
✾ Complaints to management if a group of Black people in the restaurant laugh a little too loud.
✾ Deafening silence when yet another video surfaces of a White cop shooting a Black man or woman in the back.
Corporate America has picked up on that mood and aims to exploit it for all it’s worth. They express their concern with denunciations of “racism” and “White supremacy” and donations to “hate group monitors”. Those monitors also happen to be White, well funded and now elevated to the position of determining what constitutes a “hate group” or not.
It goes well beyond mere hypocrisy into self delusion and distraction.
Most telling, it took the horrible death of a White woman and serious injuries to other White people (among others) for these newly minted “anti-racists” to get off their yoga mats and into the streets.
We shall see….
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What i get out of it was U.S. citizens reject neo-nazis chanting iliberal slogans. It looks “foreign” if that makes sense.
But that image is what white suoremecy becomes defined by. It not seen as something systemic to U.S.culture.
The left on the other hand seems to be becoming more and more anti free speech. That i am not entirely comfortable with.
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“Get off their yoga matts” lol
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@Afrofem
Valid points. However, in the context of an attempted resurgence of naked white supremacist groups, I think there is value to a show of force by the “color blind”, status quo. I don’t think complete apathy on their part would be helpful in this climate. So even if the two are Scylla and Charbydis, let them tangle with each other for the moment.
@mjb
“The left on the other hand seems to be becoming more and more anti free speech. That i am not entirely comfortable with.”
I’m glad you said this as I believe I alluded to it before as well. The politics of the left can be totalitarian as well. Afrofem alluded to this also, when she mentioned the “hate group” monitors who cannot necessarily be trusted to not overreach for political reasons. In the past we saw sites like blackagendareport smeared as propaganda because it did not tow the mainstream line. Trump’s presidency could be used by his opponents as a sort of political 911 which they use to justify arrogation of additional powers to enact violence, censor etc.
This is the same political side that would have been extremely powerful with Clinton as president even though the machinery is incredibly corrupt. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz continues to be associated with questionable activity as her former, extremely well paid, IT staffer has recently been indicted on felony counts. So currently I’m still evaluating Trump’s presidency as a necessary ill.
It’s revelatory since everything that’s happening now, was just under the surface before. In my opinion, Dylann Roof’s actions were even more grotesque than the Charlottesville incident both in terms of loss of life and the context (there were no demonstrations and counter-demonstrations just a bible study). I looked up Obama’s statement and found no blanket condemnations of white supremacist ideology. He said, “Until the investigation is complete, I’m necessarily constrained in terms of talking about the details of the case.” Then he blamed access to guns. His biggest mention of race was the following:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06/18/full-text-obamas-remarks-on-fatal-shooting-in-charleston-s-c/?utm_term=.a298ac2d2ee7
“Raises questions”, “about history”. Then he segues into a past event. Quite tepid. Granted, he always risked being branded “divisive” for addressing race. However, Trump risks it by failing to do so since he is white and has authority to speak against overtly racist whites without seeming to be “against” whites. He’ll probably end up being forced to “own” America’s race issues far more than Obama did. It’s quite an irony. Obama’s very presidency was viewed as a symbol of America’s growth past racial issues so Obama was not expected to do much but say thanks. Since Trump’s presidency is viewed in the opposite way he’ll be facing pressure to denounce some of the people who voted for him.
Anyway, I’m going way off script. That’s it for now.
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@ michaeljonbarker
“The left on the other hand seems to be becoming more and more anti free speech.”
I think that is because many people in this country are willing to forgo rights for the illusion of security and safety. Embedded in those attitudes is the childish notion that if we don’t say a thing, the thing will disappear(or not appear).
Makes me think of a Black Southern bogeyman popular in my elementary school called “The Greasy Man”. He could only be summoned by saying his name three times. Then he would appear in the dead of night and snatch the child foolish enough to summon him, whisking him or her off to who-knows-where.
Left, Right and Center seem to have regressed to that way of thinking.
Parsing hateful and harmful speech from “free speech” can be a difficult task. People and their governments struggle with that everyday. Speech has consequences and those consequences should be recognized.
In a perfect world people would not be shielded from the consequences of their words. However, those in power or those shielded by the powerful often don’t face the consequences of their speech or actions. That is when confusion and acrimony reign.
At this point in time, I think the forces of the Rightwing are a lot more shielded from consequences than other political sectors. That has been true for decades. As such, they have a head start on the anti-free speech parade.
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@ Origin
“…even if the two are Scylla and Charbydis, let them tangle with each other for the moment.”
I’m happy to let them devour and drown each other. For Black people, navigating between the two seems an unending task. Both seem intent on sinking the unwary traveler.
As an aside, I don’t really think the new “anti-racists” have a clue about what it means to be on the receiving end of White supremacy or racism. Likely those are just “bad” words to them like “fascism” and they want to be on the side of “good”. That is especially true if there is no personal cost to them or disruption to their lives.
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Maybe Abagond can do a post on “free speech”.
It seems to me that what happend in Charlotteville was “forced speech”. The majority of citizens there opposed having a bunch of Nazis ect show up in there town.
Also showing up armed to excersize “free speech” indicates to me that your not interested in a conversation. How does one peacfully speak about wanting genocide of different groups of people ?
On college campuses free speech seems to be getting shut down. That’s not good either.
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Really? People who put their lives at risk deserve such self-righteous contempt? Identity politics is insane. Why have I not read such denunciation of Obama for the following political insult to Black Americans? http://sonsofconfederateveterans.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/scv-pleased-with-obama-sending-wreath.html
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“People who put their lives at risk deserve such self-righteous contempt?”
Black people put their lives at risk every day just walking, driving, working and shopping. Any medals for Black people? Pats on the back? Adoration?
Oh gro jo please, like I’m an Obama fan. LOL!
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“Oh gro jo please, like I’m an Obama fan. LOL!” Nobody said you were. What I’m saying is people who gave their lives for a good cause don’t deserve to be dismissed as silly yoga practitioners. I’d take people like her over an Obama or a Clarence Thomas every time. Let’s not make a fetish out of skin color, lots of black bastards in the world.
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The Charlotteville and Boston events were different.
In Charlotteville you had Neo Nazis with clubs dressed for a fight. Antifa can be commended for helping residents protect themselves. That event was way more intense then Boston.
In Boston there were a handful of speakers with three of them representing supremist views. Others were conservatives. The organizers put out that there were extra time slots available for anyone to speak.
The MSM made it sound like this was a march against Nazis so maybe thats why there was such a showing after the tragedy at Charlotteville.
Antifa showed up to help protect everyone from Nazis but it seems that weren’t any there.
In that context 30,000 WP were not putting their lives on the line. It was all about feeling good at the expense of what appears to have been a legitimate free speech event.
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@ gro jo
“…people who gave their lives for a good cause don’t deserve to be dismissed as silly yoga practitioners.”
A difference in life experiences and worldview can lead to different opinions. Perhaps I’ve met too many faux yogis to be impressed at this point in time.
Will we seeing a kinder, gentler gro jo for the foreseeable future? Hmm?
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“A difference in life experiences and worldview can lead to different opinions. Perhaps I’ve met too many faux yogis to be impressed at this point in time.”
Must be, I find nothing to sneer at when someone dies defending a cause I respect. What did you find “faux’ in her martyrdom?
“Will we seeing a kinder, gentler gro jo for the foreseeable future? Hmm?”
Nope, same old gro jo who tells it as he sees it.
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@ gro jo
My words are focused on the 40 thousand Boston “anti-racist” hypocrites and others scattered around the country.
Your words seem to be focused on the C’ville protesters.
While I generally appreciate your tendency to be the “same old gro jo who tells it as he sees it”, I think we have been talking past one another on this thread.
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Ok, how were you able to gauge the hypocrisy of the Boston crowd as opposed to the sincerity of the Charlottesville one? Seems to me they were defending the same cause.
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Maybe we are conflating two different causes. People showed up to protest fascim. That is different then showing up to protest racism.
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“Seems to me they were defending the same cause.”
Then we simply disagree. c’est la vie.
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@nagpo we pay money eg to comcast, netflix to keep terms like ‘agent provoceteur’ out of the foreground?
And trump basically guides policy. The us president commands all us forces but not the intelligence agencies. A local ruler (or one or more highly motivated individuals) eg mayor would decide to remove a disputed historicsl landmark such as a confederate general’s statue, or worse. You are missing the mark on serfdom vs african slavery.
Anecdoteally our navy appears to be running into container ships a lot and if trump carpet bombs the taliban poppy fields and s american coca plants drug problem solved. It’s our turn again. Trump dealing with pakistan, nw territories jesus its enbarresing oh well ‘that’s what we’re working with’
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I am sure it’s been mentioned in the discussion but after all this wahalla is over white Americans society will forget all about this and it will go back to business as usual, Nothing is ever going to change.
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The planning behind “Unite the Right” included discussions of violence.
“The contents of a Discord chat server called “Charlottesville 2.0,” used by organizers and attendees of Unite The Right to coordinate nearly all aspects of their quasi-paramilitary campaign, were leaked to Unicorn Riot by an anonymous source earlier this month.”
“When we contacted alt-right organizer Eli Mosley for comment regarding the many statements encouraging violence on a server he helped manage, he told us that he had always advised others against violence. While some past statements by Mosley exist to support his assertion, Discord posts made by Mosley make it clear that he had the technical ability, and internal authority, to ban users from the Charlottesville 2.0 chat server. When we asked Mosley why he did not ban Unite The Right attendees who made posts to incite violence in the Discord server, such as encouraging people to run down counter-protesters with their cars, he did not respond.”
https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/data-release-unite-right-planning-chats-demonstrate-violent-intent/
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@v8driver
Since Obama’s times, both American media and audience need facts, and there is no explicit facts proving outside causes, just logical analysis of conditions, actions, results and their possible cause (similar to the analysis technique applied by Nassim Taleb in his Black Swans – not to be confused with a movie or a fiction book).
Yes, the decisiion could be made by a mayor – but what or who suggested such a decision? Wasn’t a local official aware of the local circumstances, of the possible course of the action and its consequences? What was the cause of the action and who did eventually benefited from it?
It could be of cause a series coincidences common for any post-imerial or an authoritarian decentralising state (like post-Soviet Estonia or modern Ukraine, or many former Soviet Republics before their collapse), but the players who benefit from such events are nearly always the same.
No state or community is an island, and mixture / infiltration is often a change-producing factor, be it positive or not.
I understand, of course, a general difference between American South and North, but a slavery is a slavery, be it marked racially or otherwise..
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“michaeljonbarker
Maybe we are conflating two different causes. People showed up to protest fascim. That is different then showing up to protest racism.”
I pose the same questions to you that I posed to Afrofem. How can you tell the difference? What’s your evidence that Boston was different from Charlottesville?
“Afrofem
“Seems to me they were defending the same cause.”
Then we simply disagree. c’est la vie.”
We don’t simply disagree, you perceived some kind of fundamental difference between the two crowds that escaped me. I saw people getting off their sofas to let racists know that they aren’t the majority and they don’t speak for them. Both crowds were majority White, with other races. The only difference I saw was that one group was physically attacked.
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The seismic waves created on the wake of the Charlottesville event are expanding their reach and forcing the redefinition and regrouping of various political sensibilities not only inside the USA but also elsewhere. Maybe the sacrifice of Heather Heyer will have some enduring repercussion after her dead.
For example, what is the position of the Jewish community vis-a-vis the Trump administration. A voice inside this community expresses concern with the situation in the USA:
http://www.vdare.com/posts/michael-chabon-all-jews-must-ostracize-the-president
And in the United Nations other countries too:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/23/world/un-us-racism-warning/index.html
We will see.
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ERRATA:
The link in previous comment should be:
https://extranewsfeed.com/to-our-fellow-jews-in-the-united-states-in-israel-and-around-the-world-ff421a1d325d
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I suspect that the white protesters both at Charlottesville and Boston were not a homogenous bunch. Some of them were probably long-term committed anti-racists activists, some were probably suburban yoga-pants wearers at their first protest ever, with a full range of types in between.
No doubt many of them will go right back to wearing their blinders and patting themselves on the back, but hopefully for others this was a life-changing event.
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@ ARN
“Yes, the decisiion could be made by a mayor – but what or who suggested such a decision?”
Usually the people suggesting such a decision are below the mayor in power, not above. Usually something like this starts with local African American organizations asking for the statues to be removed or the school’s name to be changed. Gradually they win more support from others in the community, maybe get some city council members on their side (who do not have power over the mayor but can work to sway him or her). It is a bottom-up movement, not an order coming down from the top.
“Wasn’t a local official aware of the local circumstances, of the possible course of the action and its consequences?”
The bulk of the alt-right agitators and white supremacists were not locals. This wasn’t “local circumstances” but protesters coming to Charlottesville from many parts of the nation. Statues have been removed before without any violent consequences.
“I understand, of course, a general difference between American South and North, but a slavery is a slavery, be it marked racially or otherwise..”
Yes and no. Slavery is always wrong. But serfdom in Russia and other parts of Europe differed in practice from race-based chattel slavery in the U.S. and elsewhere, and these were both different from slavery as practiced in ancient Greece, or by the Huron and Iroquois prior to 1492, or by the Mesopotamians in 2000 bc.
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Ok nagpo, i had a minute at sunset today to think about serfdom, mainly i guess i was on about serfdom being accepted, fiefdoms, local warlords, like that but those things started at one time as well. 🙂
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Trump asked this question after the turmoil in Charlottesville, VA:
In a recent blog post, “Sally Hemings Died in Charlottesville”, Sikivu Hutchinson made a case for recognizing White supremacy beyond the confines of the Confederacy. That would include Washington and Jefferson and other celebrated American Founders.
Hutchinson notes:
http://www.blackfemlens.org/
(8-21-17)
Trump should have asked, “where should it stop?” Maybe a re-thinking of the Confederacy, as well as what preceded it, is in order if White supremacy is truly a burning issue in need of correction.
⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙⚙
More on Sally Hemings (1773-1835):
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/sally-hemings/
More on Jefferson as a slave owner:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/
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@v8driver
Let’s define the difference in terms. I think the main difference between Anglo-Saxon culture and the Russian tradition is that there was no churls in Russia (well, al least, not since the1600s).
In the beginnign (say, before the 900s), a Russian fief existed as a group of free individuals related consanguineally or economically, or just by the fact of inhabiting a same territory. Later, they chose and invited the rulers for themselves, but since the 1500s their rights of choices disappeared).
So, the Russian people you might refer to as to ‘serfs’, they were actually white slaves (at least for a period from the 1500s and up to 1861). They were regarded as property; they could be bought and sold, an owner could treat them at his or her own whim (of course, some cases reported to the imperial court were investigated and on some of them the owners were penalised, but how many cases remained unreported?) and so on.
During Stalin’s times, the political persecution turned prisoners into slaves owned by the state.
So, the Anglo-Saxon serfdom is a serfdom, and Russian slavery is a slavery.
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@Afrofem: I agree in regards to Washington and Jefferson being slave owners. “We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.” When Jefferson was penning this document he had 200 plus black people in chains at his house. But the white normative wants to have amnesia about this fact. Washington was a slave owner his chef Hercules ran away and found his way to freedom. But white American people want to always paint these slavers as great patriots.
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The state of Virginia was founded on white supremacy because Of Thomas Jefferson.
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@ Mary Burrell
“white American people want to always paint these slavers as great patriots….”
Yes, they were the original Alt-Right.
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Just ran across this op-ed by K-Sue Park that makes some interesting points about the various ways in which the free speech of marginalized people is being suppressed:
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@nagpo
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability#Probabilities_of_probabilities
Sounds like the ultimate obeisance to the goddess of luck!
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@ A Russian Nagpo
I found the exact details of who made the decision to remove the statue in Charlottesville:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/12/virginia-unite-the-right-rally-protest-violence
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Just ran across this story out of St. Louis, MO. A White driver ran his car through a vigil crowd mourning the killing of a Black transgender woman earlier this week. According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/man-who-drove-car-through-group-of-protesters-in-st/article_b6dc87f1-0177-5b12-98bf-f7e00a598332.html
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One reason vehicular ( with cars and motorcycles) assault and homicide is a favored method of attack by White supremacist group members is because up to six state legislatures have proposed laws shielding drivers who use their cars, etc., to hurt and maim direct action protesters.
CNN.com lists the states that have discussed reducing liability for anti-protest drivers. Those states include: North Dakota, North Carolina, Florida, Rhode Island, Tennessee and Texas. CNN.com notes:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/legislation-protects-drivers-injure-protesters/
These laws are just one set of anti-protest laws being cooked up by state legislatures across the country. Others focus on placing onerous financial burdens on protesters in case of police overtime or injury.
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/23/new-bill-would-force-arrested-protesters-to-pay-police-overtime-other-fees/
These proposed laws put a whole new spin on the “free speech” debate raging in certain circles.
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The Washinton Post covers Cantwell and the culture some libertarians have in the Altright.
Not covered in the piece : Cantwell has turned himself in and the judge has refused him bail. The police did not seek warrents for his arrest rather the protesters who were sprayed with tear gas had to go the local magistrate and file a complaint. As a “high profile prisoner” he will be kept in isolation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/08/24/libertarians-wrestle-with-the-alt-right/?utm_term=.e3c1e92e5928
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The Washinton Post covers Cantwell and the culture some libertarians have in the Altright.
Not covered in the piece : Cantwell has turned himself in and the judge has refused him bail. The police did not seek warrents for his arrest rather the protesters who were sprayed with tear gas had to go the local magistrate and file a complaint. As a “high profile prisoner” he will be kept in isolation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/08/24/libertarians-wrestle-with-the-alt-right/?utm_term=.e3c1e92e5928
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I will leave this here it was white supremacy that killed a white woman so now it’s s big deal. Black folks have been telling America about the evils of white supremacy for decades but it takes the blood of a white person for white Americans to notice.
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@ Mary
Just like in the sixties: the Civil Rights Movement made its biggest gains in the wake of some white person getting killed.
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@ Mary Burrell @ Abagond
Aye!
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As a coda to Cantwell crying like a girl, Falling Down (1993) – Michael Douglas’ character.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kvN1QhgCZI)
Ahh Bwoy…..
@michaeljonbaker
Keep up the links! I’ve seen the strains of libertarianism in the that4x4square. But the ones that always come up in my searches are usually watered-down Objectivism, or dog-whispered Ron Paulism.
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@abagond
”Just like in the sixties: the Civil Rights Movement made its biggest gains in the wake of some white person getting killed.”
I like the sixties, especiallyt the French version of 1968? but the phrase sounds like an introduction into R. Heinlein’s ‘Farnham’s freehold’ (1964).
As a Russian ethnologist (killed on a wake of pro-fascist Russian movement in the late 2000s) said, ‘any judgement of a personality based upon his or her ethnicity [or race] is a natzism [or rasism]’
I like the sixties and everything about it except the idea of human sacrifice for the sake of civil rights movement.
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Yeah right!!! Since my first extended trip to U.S, , I’ve learned one lesson about dealing with whites. Smile, nod, then walk away as quickly as possible! I’d tell you just how Iearned that lesson, but that’s another story……
Damn , I love that book? Looks askance at Niven, Dick and Lem collections….
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@ ARN
No one in the civil rights movement, as far as I know, meant for them to be killed. But those who opposed the movement were not above killing people to stop it. Way more blacks were killed than whites, but when white people were killed, Jim Crowism lost whatever moral standing it still had with most white Americans, especially outside the South. That doomed it politically.
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@ abagond
Ok, I think I understood the ifs and whys about the implication.
@ satanforce
Well, Heinlein has never been among favorite books on my bookshelf, especially ‘The Freehold’ [guess why, heh :-] ] , but I like nearly everything written by Lem (and am lucky enough to be able to read his works in the original language); Niven is ok for me but almost unread, and the works by
Of the authors writing in English, I prefer Robert Silverberg, especially his Up the Line and Joe Orton (his works are not quitesci fi, they are more like Robert Rankins’), and, of course, Neil Gaiman (some situations and passages are more like illustrations to my daily life, though). and N. D. Wilson (not mentioning Żelazny).
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Wow. 2 people in one day who have also read stanislaw lem. I am humbled!
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Intercept writers, Lee Fang and Leighton Akio Woodhouse wrote an article that explored the connections between anti-female online chat groups and the growth of White supremacist groups. Those chat groups on sites like 4chan and Men’s Rights Movement affiliated sites have been fertile recruiting grounds for violent Right wing followers in the USA.
Those sites feature an abundance of socially awkward and angry young White males. These disaffected young White males gather on these sites to complain about young White females who have social and economic options their grandmothers lacked. One major option is the ability to live and work independent of a spouse.
Fang and Woodhouse cite an article that names the MRM a precursor to the so-called alt-right. The point out that:
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/25/video-how-white-nationalism-became-normal-online/
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So 9% of the population dont’t have a problem with Neo-Nazi beliefs ….
https://www.facebook.com/groups/251111538271814/permalink/1452726211443668/
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@ michaeljonbarker
I’m sure they form one portion of the 30% of the population that supports Trump.
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@Satanforce
These two articals lay out the gulf bewteen the left and right within liberatariansim.
https://radicalcapitalist.org/2017/09/04/there-is-nothing-unlibertarian-about-white-nationalism/
https://c4ss.org/content/49939
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When you think things could not get more absurd, they do.
Charlottesville police issued an arrest warrant for Deandre Harris, who was brutalized by a gang of White supremacist hooligans. According to Democracy Now!, “Harris is wanted on a felony charge of “unlawful wounding” for allegedly assaulting one of the far-right protesters…”.
Harris describes his injuries at the hands of the hooligans:
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/10/10/headlines/deandre_harris_beaten_by_white_supremacists_in_virginia_faces_felony_charge
Of the six hooligans shown beating Harris, only two have been charged. The C’ville police took their slow, sweet time charging them.
This is literally adding insult to injury.
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In this crazy upside down world they are issuing a warrant for Deandre Harris when he was the victim of a vicious assault by those tiki torch troglodytes in Charlottesville how is this even right? Now that it’s knowledge that many law enforcement officers are white supremacist we can see the handiwork of these devils.
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The cretin James A. Fields who rammed his car into a crowded of counter protesters that resulted in the death of Heather Heyer has been sentenced to life in prison according to the Washington Post.
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Update: I am not going to update the body of the post. I would rather keep it as a pristine example of my 1949 media diet. The main thing it gets wrong is that Trump said that Fields was “maybe” a terrorist. The main thing it leaves out is the now iconic image of White men marching with tiki torches. And that they were chanting “Jews will not replace us!” I added one of the tiki torch pictures to the bottom of the post.
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