Guide to Trump

Fri Jan 20th 2017 by abagond

The new US president and first lady: Donald and Melania Trump, January 20th 2017.

Posts written, and yet to be written, to help me understand Donald Trump, the new US president:

Donald Trump – my main election post on him, written over a year ago, December 2015.

narcissistic personality disorder – Trump seems to suffer from this to an extreme degree. See also the closely related psychopathic racial personality.

political arguments – are all about framing and, as it turns out, one’s upbringing. Facts and reasons confirm one’s beliefs or frame, but do not change minds. Trump appeals to those whose parents were more authoritarian than loving.

Trumpspeak – words and phrases Trump and his hangers-on use and what they mean. Some are:

racist dog whistles – words, phrases and messages which do not sound racist on their face, but which are taken in a racist way by racists – like “law and order”. Trump “tells it like it is” but sometimes he does use racist dog whistles, which are part of:

The Southern Strategy – which gets Whites to vote against their class interests by appealing to race and religion. This seemed to have run out of demographic steam by 2012, but Trump doubled down on it, to the point of being openly racist, and won. It also accounts for how the pollsters got it so wrong.

George Wallace – governor of Alabama who famously ran for president in 1968. The last open racist to run for president.

Andrew Jackson – the US president who seems most like Trump.

Cleon – an Athenian demagogue.

Putin – the president of Russia whom Trump admires and might try to copy or, worse, be controlled by, as in:

The Trump dossier – offers a model for understanding Trump that might be true.

“Hitler was democratically elected” – the rise of Hitler and how it compares to Trump. It was alike in some ways, unlike in others.

Holodomor – Stalin’s man-made famine in Ukraine (1932-33). Topic recommended by Taotesan.

The diseased host model of US society – blames the ills of US society on people of colour. Trump’s rhetoric pushes this hard. Thus the need to keep out Mexicans and Muslims.

Breitbart News – going by his tweets, this was one of Trump’s main sources of news. Steve Bannon, who made it what it is today, is now a top Trump adviser.

alt-right – what White nationalists and Neo-Nazis are calling themselves these days. Trump’s ideas seem to be closer to theirs than to the Republican Party.

Birtherism – something Trump pushed.

“The Art of the Deal” – his first book.

“Yuge” – 30 years of Doonesbury cartoons about Trump.

Robert Mercer – one of Trump’s top donors.

Melania Trump – his current wife.

Trump’s cabinet – in particular:

State: Rex Tillerson
Treasury: Steven Mnuchin
Defence: James Mattis
Justice: Jeff Sessions
Interior: Ryan Zinke
Environment: Scott Pruitt

Trump voters – in particular:

White Evangelical Protestants
White working-class men

Since it seems many Trump voters lied to pollsters, I might have to do a Trump voter update.

If you want to recommend a topic, please tell me in the comments below. Thanks!

– Abagond, 2017.

See also:

Trump posts:
- Jan 2017: The Trump dossier
- Nov 2016: normalizing Trump
- Nov 2016: The Trump Era
- Nov 2016: How Donald Trump is worse than Hillary Clinton
- Oct 2016: Trump’s sex scandal
- Sep 2016: Trump’s Black outreach
- Aug 2016: Trump voters
- Aug 2016: Can Trump win?
- Aug 2016: The Trump Effect on children
- Jun 2016: Trump’s media blacklist
- Mar 2016: Donald Trump quotes about Black people
- Dec 2015: Donald Trump

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Posted in stuff | 132 Comments

132 Responses

on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 03:39:54 Afrofem

“…it seems many Trump voters lied to pollsters…”

Technically only 25% of eligible American voters went for Trump. He is president because of three major factors:

➽ Successful voter suppression efforts by the Republicans of Black people, Latinos, elders and college students.

➽ The Electoral College system which ignores the will of the people (2.8 million in this case); as it was designed to do by the nation’s founders.

➽ The huge number of non-voters (upwards of 100 million this election cycle).

I agree that Trump voters lied through their teeth to pollsters, but without anti-democratic structures to impede the vote of the whole electorate, Trump would not have had a prayer of “winning” the highest political office in this country. Neither, would Clinton.

In fact, the current stultifying two party system would not exist. Likely there would be many parties, more choice and more true democracy——-messy, sometimes unstable and more reflective of the true will of the people.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 05:58:10 gro jo

“Likely there would be many parties, more choice and more true democracy——-messy, sometimes unstable and more reflective of the true will of the people.”
Name the countries where your “true democracy” exists? Israel? It has many parties, yet two of them dominated for most of its history. It’s racist as hell.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 06:00:07 gro jo

In the voter suppression category you might add Obama fatigue.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 07:39:31 Assumed Name

I believe “white nationalist” is also a deliberately deceptive term designed to sound more respectable than white supremacist. I’ve noticed that white supremacists are very comfortable with referring to themselves as “white nationalists”.

Their “white nationalist” cover story is that they don’t want to interfere with or hurt anybody, they just want to preserve their race and culture and live in peace by themselves which of course is untrue. They are dedicated to the domination, exploitation and abuse of non-whites – especially black people and they enjoy it.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 08:07:12 Fan ...

“➽ The Electoral College system which ignores the will of the people (2.8 million in this case); as it was designed to do by the nation’s founders.”

Then I guess it’s working exactly as intended by the Founders.

“Likely there would be many parties, more choice and more true democracy——-messy, sometimes unstable and more reflective of the true will of the people.”

Ahhh..however the USA was – once more – never setup to be a true democracy to reflect the true will of the majority of its citizens. At least not in that (majority) way. Perhaps that’s why the Founders didn’t refer to this system of governance as a “true democracy,” but more like (if not exactly like) a Constitutional Representative REPUBLIC, supposedly a form of government in which power resides in elected individuals supposedly representing the citizen body and government leaders exercise power SUPPOSEDLY according to the rule of LAW.

If the people really had the ability to reflect/assert their will in a democratic fashion, in this oft believed but clearly not democratic country (the USA) would their sons and daughters be going overseas to risk life and limb regularly for the sake of a supposed war on terror racket/profit scheme?

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 08:33:40 Glenn (freedom of movement) Robinson @getgln

Reblogged this on League of Bloggers For a Better World.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 10:35:54 Brothawolf

Assumed Name,

True. White racists can’t stand to be classified as racists, but have no problem thinking and acting racist. Instead, they prefer other terms that make them sound less pathetic.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 11:34:01 Mack Lyons (@DDSSBlog)

@ Brothawolf

What white racists crave is social acceptability. Without it, they appear as cranks who should be and often are ignored. With it, they can bask in their own ideology and spread it elsewhere without fear of being called out on it.

Trump is slowly but surely making open, nakedly racist behavior socially acceptable among Americans.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 13:56:38 nomad

Not for Trump, necessarily, but you have to recognize propaganda when it is injected into your mind using the technique of repetition. You hear it everywhere. From serious pundits from cartoonists and comedians, riffing on it as if it were baseline fact to be elaborated upon. But it was a Clinton campaign talking point, taken up after the election by Obama and acted upon as if it were fact. And so our corporate media class repeats this refrain endlessly. Trump is a stooge of Putin. Without a shred of evidence. A completely fabricated relationship. A fake story. Regurgitated by news men and comics and commentators..
“Putin – the president of Russia whom Trump admires and might to try to copy or, worse, be controlled by, as in:”
That’s the way propaganda works. Repeat something often enough from all media sources and corporate voices and the American people will come to believe it is true. Works every time.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 14:59:59 Herneith

They are dedicated to the domination, exploitation and abuse of non-whites – especially black people and they enjoy it.

They probably get sexual gratification from this. They seem overly interested in Black sexuality.

@Abagond;

I suggest a post as to how Trump managed to keep his hair in place during the ceremonies.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 15:19:54 Crystal Spraggins

White Evangelical Protestants — what a disappointment. I’ll never call myself an evangelical again. The love of Christ seems completely lacking in these folks.

(Hey Abagond, I’ve been studying NPD for years, after having the misfortune to work for someone who exhibited all the signs. Can’t wait for that post.)

http://crystalspraggins.blogspot.com/2016/01/encounter-with-corporate-psychopath.html

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 15:41:44 blakksage

“blames the ills of US society on people of colour. Trump’s rhetoric pushes this hard. Thus the need to keep out Mexicans and Muslims.’

This has always been the case with the original and these neo-White Nationalist, blame, blame and blame some more. But yet, they miraculously forget that since Amerika’s inception, whites have always stood behind the social curtain pulling the strings as to what direction to take and the primary ones slamming the gavel in the courts.

Now, since they see that this country is in a spiraling freefall; a financial and social ditch, one of which it perhaps never recover from; continuous wars and skirmishes; they point their collective fingers and goddammit, blame the scapegoats and marginalized again.

Is it a possibility that deep within their psyche, white Amerikans have a feeling that their kingdom is falling and collectively approaching their judgment?

It is quite clear by now that President tRump is a vain man who loves flattery. Unfortunately, he will not realize this until someone yells: Behold, the President has no clothes. Only then will he realize that almost the entire world, in secret, has always looked upon him as appearing to be a glorified f@@l and much too late for him to do anything about his unappealing nakedness.

Is it possible for a single Navy soldier to save a sinking submarine while perched upon its periscope? I think not, and it appears that this is the unfortunate predicament that President tRump analogously finds himself in as the Commander in Chief!

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 16:34:43 resw

@Assumed Name

“I believe “white nationalist” is also a deliberately deceptive term designed to sound more respectable than white supremacist. ”

Absolutely agree. And I find it disgusting that the msm kept referring to Richard Spencer as a “white nationalist” yesterday. Not one of the msm outlets that I came across dared to call him what he really is.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 17:23:09 resw

^Well, some foreign media outlets, like the UK’s Sun and Mirror are actually calling him “white supremacist”.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 17:40:16 Afrofem

@ gro jo

I agree with both your points upthread. I think Obama fatigue is a subset of what kept non-voters home on Nov. 8th.

Better democratic practices can be found in Costa Rica and the Scandinavian countries. There are no perfect systems.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 18:14:38 nomad

MSM and the blogs that rely on it, cannot win back credibility by supporting false narratives. The ‘Trump is a Putin stooge’ is all part of a media campaign to drive us into conflict with Russia. MSM has lost a whole lot of credibility with the Clinton debacle. There is much to criticize about Trump that doesn’t require sacrificing journalistic integrity. The Putin stooge story is so paper thin but practically adopted as fact by MSM pundits comedians and cartoonists. You’re never going to win your integrity back like that, with unsourced dossiers and complete fabrications. You’re too biased. How can I ever believe anything you say about Trump?

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 23:03:58 gro jo

“How can I ever believe anything you say about Trump?”
Er, the same way you managed to believe every bit of nonsense about Obama and HRC? Pure faith, facts be damned.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 23:13:37 gro jo

Abagond, are you really happy with the way you wrote the following? “Putin – the president of Russia whom Trump admires and might to try to copy or, worse, be controlled by, as in:”
“…might to try to copy or,…” doesn’t sound right to me. Seems that “want” should connect “might” and “to”.

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on Sat Jan 21st 2017 at 23:59:11 satanforce

To get you started on the greatest – and most tragic – president of since Richard Milhouse Nixon

https://italkyoubored.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/has-donald-trump-ever-been-rich/

http://crookedtimber.org/2016/07/26/donald-trump-moosbrugger-for-president/

By the way Abagond, your definition of narcissism is wrong.

To correct your definition:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/a_generational_pathology.html

From the folowing:

A narcissist isn’t necessarily an egotist, someone who thinks they are the best. A quick screen is an inability to appreciate that other people exist, and have thoughts, feelings, and actions unrelated to the narcissist. These thoughts don’t have to be good ones, but they have to be linked to the narcissist. (“I’m going to get some gas– because that jerk never fills the car.”)

The narcissist believes he is the main character in his own movie. Everyone else has a supporting role– everyone around him becomes a “type.” You know how in every romantic comedy, there’s always the funny friend who helpes the main character figure out her relationship? In the movie, her whole existence is to be there fore the main character. But in real life, that funny friend has her own life; she might even be the main character in her own movie, right? Well the narcissist wouldn’t be able to grasp that. Her friends are always supporting characters, that can be called at any hour of the night, that will always be interested in what she is wearing, or what she did. That funny friend isn’t just being kind, she doesn’t just want to help– she’s personally interested in the narcissist’s life. Of course she is.

Sound like anyone you know *cough.. Roissy, Obsidian, xPraetorious… cough…. Elliot Rodger…*

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2006/12/if_this_is_one_of_the_sexiest.html

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 00:14:23 gro jo

The real Trump:
Tower of Babble
By Joe Kloc

Donald J. Trump, a reality-television star erecting a mausoleum for himself behind the first-hole tee of a golf course he owns in New Jersey, first declared his candidacy for president of the United States in the atrium of Trump Tower, which he built in the 1980s with labor provided by hundreds of undocumented Polish workers and concrete purchased at an inflated price from the Gambino and Genovese crime families. “The American dream is dead,” Trump said to the audience members, each of whom he paid $50 to attend. During Trump’s primary campaign, he told his supporters that he knew “all about crazies,” loved “Wall Street guys” who are “brutal,” planned to “use the word ‘anchor baby,’ ” and preferred to pronounce “Qatar” incorrectly. Trump, who in 1999 cut his sick infant grandnephew off the Trump Organization’s health-care plan and in 2011 compared being gay to switching to a long-handled golf putter, pledged to repeal the Affordable Care Act and said he’d consider trying to overturn the legalization of same-sex marriage. Trump said that his book The Art of the Deal was second in quality only to the Bible and that he never explicitly asked God for forgiveness. At a church in Iowa, he placed a few dollar bills into a bowl filled with sacramental bread, which he has referred to as “my little cracker.” Trump, who once dumped a glass of wine on a journalist who wrote a story he didn’t like, told his supporters that journalists were “liars,” the “lowest form of humanity,” and “enemies,” but that he did not approve of killing them. “I’m a very sane person,” said Trump, who once hosted a radio show in which he discussed the development of hair-cloning technology, the creation of a vaccine for obesity, the number of men a gay man thinks about having sex with on his morning commute, and the dangers of giving free Viagra to rapists. Trump denied being the voice of John Miller, one of several fictional assistants he had previously admitted pretending to be, in a recording of himself telling a reporter that he had “zero interest” in dating Madonna; that he had three other girlfriends in addition to Marla Maples, with whom he had been cheating on his wife; and that he had an affair with Carla Bruni, who later responded by describing Trump as “obviously a lunatic.” Trump, who once offered the city of New York vacant apartments in his building to house homeless people in hopes they would drive away rent-controlled tenants, sent a bumper sticker to a group of homeless veterans whom he had previously declined to help and asked them to campaign for him. Trump, whose companies have been cited 24 times since 2005 for failing to pay workers overtime or minimum wage, said the federal minimum wage should go up, and then said it should not. Trump referred to 9/11 as “7-Eleven,” and called Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren “the Indian” and “Pocahontas.” Trump, who had previously labeled a deaf contestant on his reality-TV show The Apprentice “retarded,” and had described poor Americans as “morons,” said the country was on course for a “very massive recession,” one resembling the U.S. recession of 2007 to 2009, which Trump once said Americans could “opt out of” by joining Trump Network, a multilevel-marketing company that sold a monthly supply of multivitamins purportedly tailored to customers based on a test of their urine. Trump submitted his financial-disclosure form to the Federal Election Commission, on which he swore under oath that his golf course in Briarcliff Manor, New York, which was being sued by the town for causing flooding, was worth $50 million, despite having sworn in a previous property-tax appeal that it was worth $1.4 million; and swore that his golf course in Palos Verdes, California, which he was suing for five times its annual revenue, was worth more than $50 million, despite previously having filed papers with Los Angeles County stating it was worth $10 million. Trump claimed he made $1.9 million from his modeling agency, which a foreign-born former model accused of “modern-day slavery,” alleging that the agency forced her to lie about her age, work without a U.S. visa, and live in a crowded apartment for which she paid the agency as much as $1,600 a month to sleep in a bed beneath a window through which a homeless man once urinated on her. Trump sought to exclude a recording of himself telling the nephew of former president George W. Bush that he grabs women “by the pussy” from a fraud suit filed against Trump University, a series of real-estate seminars taught by salespeople with no real-estate experience, which was housed in a Trump-owned building that the Securities and Exchange Commission said also housed the country’s most complained-about unregistered brokerages, and whose curriculum investigators in Texas described as “inapplicable.” Trump announced that he would win the Latino vote, and tweeted a photo of himself eating a taco bowl from Trump Grill in Trump Tower with the message “I love Hispanics!” Trump referred to a black man at one of his rallies as “my African American,” and pledged his support for black people at a gathering of mostly white people in Wisconsin, whom he often referred to as “the forgotten people.” “I am the least racist person,” said Trump, who was sued twice by the Justice Department in the 1970s for allegedly refusing to rent apartments to black tenants, whose Trump Plaza Hotel was fined $200,000 by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission in 1992 for removing black dealers from card tables, who allegedly told a former employee that he hated “black guys counting my money,” who in 2005 floated the idea of pitting an all-black Apprentice team against an all-white one to reflect “our very vicious world,” and who was endorsed by leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, one of whom said, “What he believes, we believe.” Trump tweeted statistics credited to a fictional government agency falsely claiming that the majority of white murder victims in the United States are killed by black people. Trump tweeted a photoshopped picture of Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly, who Trump had said “had blood coming out of her wherever,” standing next to a Saudi prince, who tweeted back that he had “financially rescued” Trump twice, including once in 1990, when the prince purchased Trump’s 281-foot yacht, which was formerly owned by a Saudi arms dealer with whom Trump often partied in Atlantic City, and with whom Trump was implicated in a tax-evasion scheme involving a Fifth Avenue jewelry store. Trump disputed former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s claim that Trump magazine is defunct, showing as proof an annual circular for his clubs that was not Trump magazine, which folded in 2009. Trump republished his book Crippled America with the title Great Again. Trump told and retold an apocryphal story about a U.S. general who executed Muslim soldiers with bullets dipped in pig’s blood and proposed that Muslims be banned from entering the country. At the first primary debate, Trump praised his companies’ bankruptcies, including that of Trump Entertainment Resorts, in which lenders lost more than $1 billion and 1,100 employees lost their jobs, and that of Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts, a publicly traded company that Trump used to purchase two casinos for almost $1 billion, and from which he resigned after the company went bankrupt for the first time, but before it went bankrupt for the second time. “I made a lot of money,” said Trump. At the fifth primary debate, Trump defended the idea of retaliating against America’s foreign aggressors by killing non-combatant members of their families, saying it would “make people think.” At the eleventh primary debate, Trump told the crowd there was “no problem” with the size of his penis. Trump said that he knew more about the Islamic State than “the generals,” and that he would “rely on the generals” to defeat the Islamic State. Trump said he would bring back waterboarding and torture because “we have to beat the savages.” Trump offered to pay the legal bills of anyone who assaulted protesters at his rallies, denied making the offer, then made the offer again after a 78-year-old white supporter in North Carolina punched a 26-year-old black protester in the eye and said, “Next time we see him we might have to kill him.” Trump, who in 1999 called Republicans too “crazy right” and in 2000 ran on a Reform Party platform that included creating a lottery to fund U.S. spy training, said that the 2016 primaries were “rigged,” then clinched the Republican nomination for president, receiving more votes than any Republican in history. “I was the one who really broke the glass ceiling,” said Trump when his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton, became the first woman to lead a major party’s ticket. Trump hired Steve Bannon, the editor of the white-nationalist website Breitbart, to replace his former campaign manager Paul Manafort, who ran a firm that once lobbied for the military dictator of Zaire, and who himself replaced Corey Lewandowski, who resigned from the campaign not long after he was filmed grabbing a Breitbart reporter by the arm to prevent her from asking Trump any questions. Trump selected as his running mate Indiana governor Mike Pence, who previously backed a bill that would allow hospitals to deny care to critically ill pregnant women, and who once criticized the Disney character Mulan as a “mischievous liberal” created to persuade Americans that women should be allowed to hold combat positions in the military. In his general-election campaign, Trump said he would consider recognizing Crimea as Russian territory, and called on Russia to hack into Clinton’s email account. Trump said that he doesn’t pay employees who don’t “do a good job,” after a review of the more than 3,500 lawsuits filed against Trump found that he has been accused of stiffing a painter and a dishwasher in Florida, a glass company in New Jersey, dozens of hourly hospitality workers, and some of the lawyers who represented him. “I’m a fighter,” said Trump, who body-slammed the WWE chairman at WrestleMania 23 in 2007, and who attended WrestleMania IV with Robert LiButti, an Atlantic City gambler with alleged mafia ties, who told Trump he’d “fucking pull your balls from your legs” if Trump didn’t stop trying to seduce his daughter. Trump, whose first wife, Ivana, accused him in divorce filings of rape, and whose special council later said rape within a marriage was not possible, said “no one respects women more than I do.” Trump threatened to sue 12 women who accused him of sexual misconduct, including one who recalled Trump trying “like an octopus” to put his hand up her skirt on an airplane 35 years ago; four former Miss Teen USA contestants, who alleged that Trump entered their dressing room while girls as young as 15 were changing and said, “I’ve seen it all before”; the winner of Miss Utah USA in 1997, who alleged that Trump forcibly kissed her on the lips and then told her, “Twenty-one is too old”; an adult-film star, who alleged that at a golf tournament in Tahoe in 2006 Trump offered her $10,000 and the private use of his jet to spend the night with him; and a People magazine reporter, who alleged that while she was writing a story on Trump and his current wife, Melania, on the occasion of their first wedding anniversary, Trump pushed her against the wall and forcibly kissed her before telling her, “We’re going to have an affair.” “What I say is what I say,” said Trump, who previously told a pair of 14-year-old girls that he would date them in a couple of years, said of a 10-year-old girl that he would date her in 10 years, told a journalist that he wasn’t sure whether his infant daughter Tiffany would have nice breasts, told the cast of The View that if Ivanka weren’t his daughter “perhaps I would be dating her,” told radio host Howard Stern that it was okay to call Ivanka a “piece of ass” and that he could have “nailed” Princess Diana, and tweeted that a former winner of his Miss Universe pageant, whom Trump once called “Miss Piggy,” was disgusting. “Check out sex tape,” tweeted Trump, who once appeared in a soft-core pornographic film breaking a bottle of wine over a limousine. Trump did not comment on reports that he used over $200,000 in charitable contributions to the Trump Foundation to settle lawsuits against his businesses, $20,000 in contributions to the Trump Foundation to buy a six-foot-tall painting of himself, and $10,000 in contributions to buy a smaller painting of himself, which he hung on the wall of his restaurant Champions Bar and Grill. “I’m the cleanest guy there is,” said Trump, who once granted the rights to explore building Trump-branded towers in Moscow to a mobster convicted of stabbing a man in the face with the stem of margarita glass, who was mentored by the former lead council for Senator Joseph McCarthy and the Gambino and Genovese crime families, who once purchased a nightclub in Atlantic City from a hit man for a Philadelphia crime family, who once worked with a soldier in the Colombo crime family to outfit Trump Golden and Executive Series limousines with a fax machine and a liquor dispenser, and who once purchased helicopter services from a cigarette-boat racer named Joseph Weichselbaum, who was charged with drug trafficking in Ohio before being moved to Trump’s sister’s courtroom in New Jersey, where the case was handed off to a different judge, who gave Weichselbaum a three-year prison sentence, of which he served 18 months before moving into Trump Tower. Trump told journalists he “made a lot of money” when he leased his house in Westchester to the late Libyan dictator Muammar Qaddafi. “I screwed him,” said Trump. Trump, who in 2013 said that he did “have a relationship” with Vladimir Putin, said in 2016, “I don’t know Putin.” Trump, who wrote in 1997 that concern over asbestos was a mob conspiracy, who in the 1990s spent $1 million in ads to bolster the theory that a Native American tribe in upstate New York had been infiltrated by the mafia and drug traffickers, who once implied that Barack Obama’s real name is Barry Soetoro and that he won reelection by making a secret deal with Saudi Arabia, and who in 2012 tweeted that global warming was a “hoax” created by “the Chinese” to weaken U.S. manufacturing, suggested to his supporters that the Islamic State paid the phone bills of Syrian refugees, that his primary opponent Ted Cruz’s Cuban father was involved in a conspiracy to kill President John F. Kennedy, and that U.S. Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia may have been suffocated with a pillow. During the first debate of the general election, Trump said that Rosie O’Donnell had deserved it when he called her “disgusting both inside and out,” “basically a disaster,” a “slob,” and a “loser,” someone who “looks bad,” “sounds bad,” has a “fat, ugly face,” and “talks like a truck driver.” At the second general-election debate, Trump invited three women who have accused Clinton’s husband of sexual misconduct to sit in the front row; claimed that Clinton had once laughed about the rape of a 12-year-old girl, which audio showed not to be true; claimed that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had endorsed him, which it had not; and afterward suggested that his opponent had been on drugs during the debate. Trump, who said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose supporters, told his supporters that Clinton could shoot one of them and not be prosecuted. Trump told the audience at a Catholic charity dinner that Clinton “hates Catholics,” that she is “the devil,” and that Mexico was “getting ready to attack.” Trump, who once kept a collection of Adolf Hitler’s speeches at his bedside, told his supporters that the election was “rigged” against him, won the election despite losing the popular vote by a margin of almost 3 million, claimed that he had in fact won the popular vote, and then announced that he would be staying on as executive producer of The Celebrity Apprentice on NBC, which a year earlier had fired him because he called Mexicans “rapists.” “Our country,” said Trump at a victory rally, “is in trouble.”

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 01:38:51 Origin

Afrofem’s first post mentions many systemic things. The priority of the system under which we live is to maintain control. However, the current system of imperial domination is quite sophisticated in the way it carefully controls its image. Ordinary people are encouraged to feel as if they can influence the direction of government. I’m reminded of the toes of the symbolic statue in the book of Daniel (Chap 2) in the Bible which consisted of clay mixed in with iron.

One should really ask whether a system that tends towards inequality and the concentration of power in the few can be truly democratic. Clearly, if the vast majority of the disadvantaged had any real say then they wouldn’t be disadvantaged! So apparently, the mechanisms to subvert the democratic process are built into the very same system that claims to respect it. That’s how Hillary won the Democratic Party’s nomination and how the ensuing Trump victory happened.

However, the advantage of having a system in which domination is camouflaged is that there is less overt resistance to contend with if people believe there are official ways to change conditions. However, it is essential for its continued existence that the actual utilization of those avenues is kept to a minimum. Voter suppression, propaganda and “lobbying” all come into play here. It represents a weakness of the system that it sometimes has to act covertly when it has the power to be direct. It also risks being challenged to live up to its published ideals. Competing systems, those which are nakedly repressive and tyrannical, don’t have that particular issue.

I’ve been thinking, for a while now, that there might be shocks to the system soon, and not because of Trump necessarily. The move towards nationalism is a reaction, and while racism is involved on some level, there is another factor as well. The relentless power-seeking nature of “civilization” ultimately requires some sacrifices from white people. They must give up ethnic identities in order to assimilate into a larger gestalt which has more capability to project power (this already happened on a smaller scale historically among American whites). In the process the systems of government become more remote and totalitarian characteristics become more overt. This is the natural trajectory as dictated by the asili (generative seed) of the culture according to Marimba Ani in Yurugu. Rubinstein, in his book, “The Cunning of History: the Holocaust and the American Future”, took a different approach and came to similar conclusions. [I’ll pull a quote from his book in a following post as this is getting lengthy]

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 02:38:58 Origin

Rubinstein:

We are sadly forced to conclude that we live in a world that is functionally godless and that human rights and dignity depend upon the power of one’s community to grant or withhold them from its members.

Thus, the Holocaust bears witness to the advance of civilization, [italics his] I repeat, to the advance of civilization, to the point at which large scale massacre is no longer a crime and the state’s sovereign powers are such that millions can be stripped of their rights and condemned to the world of the living dead. Thus, the process of secularization ends where it began. In the beginning secularization involved the demystification of and the limitation of the sovereign’s power. In the end, the secular state has dethroned all mystifications of power and morality save its own. The state
becomes the only true god on earth with the power to define
realistically what is good and will be rewarded and what is evil and will be punished; this truly sovereign god also has the ultimate power of
divinity, the power to decide who shall live and who shall die. […] This does not mean that the sovereign can not be limited; he can, but only by the laws of men acting in concert, at best a tenuous guarantee of a humane society. Fortunately, the American political system has insisted until now upon limitations on the chief executive’s power. And, it is a good thing. Otherwise, there might be no limit to the tyrannies a modern ruler might inflict upon those whom he governs.
[…]
Nor is it likely that an uncritical attempt to return to the Judeo-Christian tradition will yield a credible reaffirmation of the humanistic values that have been dissolved by the all-conquering rationality of modern political and economic structures. On the contrary, the Judeo-Christian tradition is itself part of the problem.
[…]
Even, nay especially, religion has its night side. Thus, we have offered the hypothesis that the secularization process that led to bureaucracy, capitalism, and the society of total domination was the outcome of the biblical tradition.
[…]
Nor can we ignore the biblical roots of the hideous Nazi caricature of the Chosen People doctrine, the claim that pure-blooded Germans are a Herrenvolk, a master race, destined to rule, enslave or exterminate non-Germans. It is fashionable to see anticipations of Nazi anti-Semitism in Germany’s greatest religious figure, Martin Luther, but it is seldom acknowledged that Luther’s intolerance and hatred was thoroughly biblical in its rejection of those who do not maintain whatever is construed to be fidelity to the only true word of the Lord. All this is a part of the night side of religion. What makes the problem so serious is that there is no escape from the self-defeating ethos of exclusivism and intolerance we have described as long as our fundamental culture is derived from a religious tradition that insists upon the, dichotomous division of mankind into the elect and the reprobate [me: a dichotomy reflected also in another imperialistic enterprise with a religious handmaiden, Islam]. And
there is only one way in which the Judeo-Christian tradition in its
secularized if not its religious forms could be overcome: a mammoth world-
wide catastrophe in which hundreds of millions of human beings are destroyed and civilization as we know it disappears among the crazed, frightened survivors. Such a scenario is plausible; we have the weaponry to bring it about. Unfortunately, the traumatic cure of the illness we call Judeo-Christian civilization would prove infinitely worse
than the disease itself.

The first paragraph suggests the reason for the growing popular resistance to the dissolution of the self-determination of smaller nation states. The loss of an entity to defend their particular interests leaves groups extremely vulnerable in a system without any genuine moral shackles. This happened to colonized people long ago and white people can sense those forces turning inwards. Though some look for scapegoats, it’s really the work of the same civilization that did it to us. Hitler was merely a teenager when Africans were being systematically eliminated by Germans at Shark Island in the 1900s decades before the Jewish Holocaust and the destruction of Poles and others in Europe. By it’s very nature, this civilization has no equilibrium state. It must continue to acquire and consume. Contrast that with the Ancient Egyptian concept of Maat or balance. There is no equivalent. Ultimately, autophagy ensues and this could lead to instability and possibly war.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 02:42:21 Afrofem

@Origin

“The relentless power-seeking nature of “civilization” ultimately requires some sacrifices from white people. They must give up ethnic identities in order to assimilate into a larger gestalt which has more capability to project power (this already happened on a smaller scale historically among American whites).”

Please expand upon the “sacrifices” Whites have made and will be forced to make to advance “civilization”.

I can think of three: the loss of their tribal identities, the loss of connection to the natural world and the loss of their connection to natural humanity. They exist in a culture that prioritizes separation, isolation and control. Their culture has stunted them spiritually even as it has increased their material well being (as in gained the world and lost their souls).

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 03:12:53 Origin

@Afrofem

Those are exactly the points I was thinking of. However, when I said “sacrifice” I was thinking symbolically in terms of an offer to a deity who ultimately responds favorably, at a cost. It is more of a trade than a noble or altruistic action.

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 06:16:14 Afrofem

@ Origin

Understood.

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 08:04:47 nomad

@gro jo
“How can I ever believe anything you say about Trump?”
“Er, the same way you managed to believe every bit of nonsense about Obama and HRC? Pure faith, facts be damned.”
Look who’s talking. Mister gullible obamasheepperson.

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 08:20:05 nomad

and again you miss the point. the question is not how can I believe anything about Trump, its how can I believe anything MSM SAYS about Trump? the problem is not my capacity to believe but the credibility of MSM and those like you who are thralls to MSM. but then you probably knew that, unless you’re not playing with a full deck. you are just, as usual, trying to distort. give it a rest.

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 13:23:09 gro jo

“the question is not how can I believe anything about Trump, its how can I believe anything MSM SAYS about Trump? ”
Unless you know Trump personally, what’s the difference?
“give it a rest” I don’t tell you what to do, why do you feel entitled to tell me what I should do? If you don’t want criticism don’t write.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 15:01:20 nomad

let me rephrase that, since you object to being told what to do ,strong>”Why don’t you give it a rest?” not telling you what to do. just questioning why you don’t. is that okay? anything else you want me to change? I can rephrase anything to make it sound less threatening. just let me know.

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 17:39:38 gro jo

My dear nomad, I don’t need you to rephrase anything. I was just pointing out the futility of your request. I felt, in no way, threatened by your comment, just bored with its drone like repetitiveness. Are you okay?

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on Sun Jan 22nd 2017 at 19:15:03 nomad

@gro jo
I’m fine. You sure my comments aren’t too deplorable? I can tone it down. Is there something in particular that you would not like me to repeat? Like I say, just let me know. If “Why don’t you give it a rest” is too strong I could probably come up with another less offensive way of saying it.

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on Mon Jan 23rd 2017 at 16:20:56 abagond

@ gro jo

Thanks for the correction.

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on Tue Jan 24th 2017 at 18:24:00 Afrofem

Just saw a time lapsed video of the national mall during the Trump inauguration.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=52&v=PdantUf5tXg)

Are “alternative facts” what we have to look forward to for the next eight years?

Even when caught in a flagrant lie, Trump and the Repubs just double down on their falsehoods.

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on Tue Jan 24th 2017 at 19:15:56 abagond

@Afrofem

I just did a post on that:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/alternative-facts/

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Tue Jan 24th 2017 at 22:06:01 Afrofem

@Abagond

Ships passing in the night….

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on Wed Jan 25th 2017 at 10:07:11 Scejaman

“’Hitler was democratically elected” – the rise of Hitler and how it compares to Trump. It was alike in some ways, unlike in others.”

Trump’s election resembles that of Adolph Hitler in many aspects. Because the Furhër made many promises, kept some and broke others. I don’t see Trump fulfil all of his promises.

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on Thu Jan 26th 2017 at 02:00:09 Mbeti

“narcissistic personality disorder”
We (the general public) are continually told that trump pathologically seeks attention ,but what would be the sociological opposite of “narcissistic personality disorder” whereby the majority of the media continually focus thier attention on one person and his activities to the exculsion of all other events ?
And regardless of how decietful,disrespectful or obcene ,still lavish said individual with attention?

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on Thu Jan 26th 2017 at 04:16:26 Afrofem

@Mbeti

Agreed. The media does have a lot of responsibility in this situation.

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on Fri Jan 27th 2017 at 03:39:37 michaeljonbarker

‪”Fellow libertarians: So this last week has shown that Trump the president promises to be every bit as awful as Trump the candidate. His ABC News interview was exceptionally horrifying. Seriously. Go read it. We’re now governed by your crazy uncle who sends you all those forwarded emails.”

“Maybe at this point, stuff like pointing and laughing at liberal/media hypocrisy, crowing about political correctness, invoking “Obama did it too” or “Hillary did it too” arguments, mocking social justice groups who fear Trump — maybe these should no longer be our main priorities. Maybe this is the time to start directing most or all of our energy at the people who actually hold power now, and who are threatening to do some very unlibertarian things with it. Maybe, just maybe, we could even try to find some common ground with some of those aforementioned groups.”

Radley Balko

“It’s Thursday 5:38 eastern time, and, so far, Trump seems determined to bring about some kind of anti-liberal dystopia, worse than I even imagined. What’s especially striking is how people are adapting to it, just still thinking, oh this is no big deal, it’s just a tweak, a rearrangement of a few points, and probably needed to be done.”

Jeffery Tucker

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on Sat Jan 28th 2017 at 05:51:51 Solitaire

Not just the NPS. There are now rogue Twitter accounts purporting to be from employees at NASA and NOAA. There’s talk of organizing a mass protest of scientists in DC.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sat Jan 28th 2017 at 15:51:53 nomad

science is not partisan. but scientists are. especially when it comes to climate.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sat Jan 28th 2017 at 16:01:47 nomad

as long as environmentalist and like minded scientists deny what’s going on in our skies, they’re worse than climate change deniers; because some of these scientists are actually participating in the ecocide.

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on Sat Jan 28th 2017 at 16:39:15 nomad

Dern. I’m trying to find a quote from an activist but cant. Anyway, he stated that even if every other source of manmade global warming was stopped, it wouldn’t make a dent because the number one cause of manmade global warming is the US military. Or something to that effect. And that military is constantly expanding (me saying this) therefore if you’re not working against reducing the military you’re not really doing anything effective against global warming. And if you’re not willing to confront the military on chemtrails, you’re doing less than nothing. You’re just fiddling while Rome burns.

Geoengineering Is The Primary Cause Of Global Climate Change, Not CO2

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=27876

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sat Jan 28th 2017 at 17:00:53 nomad

@An Scríbhneor Gael-Mheiricéanach
“working against reducing the military ”
like all our politicians are, Dem and GOP.
Of course I meant working FOR reducing the military.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 1st 2017 at 08:23:02 LO

Abagond, can you please do some in depth pieces on Bannon and speculations that he is leading many of the current White House policy decisions in order to test constitutional limits and distract Americans from the actual master plan for altering our government? I’m curious what your perspective is on that topic.

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on Thu Feb 2nd 2017 at 00:06:42 Natanji

I know you have no obligation to publish my comment, but since you usually publish pretty much everything, I am wondering if you just merely forget about mine? Here it is again:

Has it occured to you that pathologizing Trump with a psychological disorder is helluva ableist move? It perpetuates the idea that Trump is dangerous because of some psychological condition (and that we should not trust people with psychological disorders, nor have them in power). Abagond, I think you are better than that.

Perhaps it would be better to not fall for the same shitty pathologization rhetoric that white folks regularly exhibit towards folks who are “different”, to not ascribe an illness (that would, in some sense, *excuse* his actions!) to Trump – but face the reality that his behaviour is utterly normal. Many people’s power, wealth and success are built upon psychological manipulation and lies.

-a trans person, who by the medical standards in their own country is still considered mentally ill

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 18:10:54 abagond

@ Natanji

Maybe I travel in the wrong circles, but to me Trump is not “utterly normal”. Far from it. For one thing, most people I know would not tell such blatant lies one after another. Maybe because they did not inherit $40 million at age 18 and so depend on people’s trust.

I do however know people who are narcissistic and that DOES help me to understand Trump in many ways. So I added that to the list. Not to say that he is necessarily mentally ill, but as food for thought. Readers can make of it what they will.

Whether Trump is mentally ill or not, there is something wrong with him. That he got 46% of the vote anyway, much of it enthusiastic, makes me wonder what sort of country I live in.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 18:12:12 abagond

@ Satanforce @natanji

I wrote a post on narcissistic personality disorder. It is linked to in the post. I think Trump fits enough of it to be worth considering.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 18:56:47 satanforce

@Mbeti

We (the general public) are continually told that trump pathologically seeks attention ,but what would be the sociological opposite of “narcissistic personality disorder” whereby the majority of the media continually focus thier attention on one person and his activities to the exculsion of all other events ?
And regardless of how decietful,disrespectful or obcene ,still lavish said individual with attention?

Borderline Personality Disorder.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 18:56:50 resw

“I wrote a post on narcissistic personality disorder. It is linked to in the post. I think Trump fits enough of it to be worth considering”

In all these years reading this blog, this is the first I’ve learned that abagond is a trained psychiatrist.

I’m interested in seeing who else he will e-diagnose.

“Maybe because they did not inherit $40 million at age 18”

I really could care less exactly how much Trump inherited, but abagond’s lies are at issue here.

Consider that according to the Queens County courts, his father left appx. $20 million to be divided among his 4 or 3 children, and the equivalent of $30 million in real estate assets which also would have been divided among 3 surviving children.

So abagond’s point is well taken, but it’s still on the basis of another of his lies.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 18:58:35 satanforce

Beautiful Markdown. Abagond, you are truly deserving of Black Privilege.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 19:00:57 satanforce

Trump definitely fits its. The problem is that, in your original post, you focused on grandiosity to the inclusion of more important factors that can be seen throughout his life history.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 19:16:35 abagond

@ resw

My comment was quite plain that Trump inherited the $40 million “at age 18”, not when his father died.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 20:40:36 resw

Of course abagond is being misleading as usual. He’s basing this on one guy’s guess of the value of Trump’s supposed stake in his father’s company at the time.

Trump didn’t actually receive $40 million at age 18.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 21:18:33 resw

And whatever stake he may have had in his father’s business “at age 18” was not “inherited”, which as abagond knows, occurs upon DEATH.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 22:01:51 abagond

@ resw

Sorry. My mistake. I stand corrected.

From PolitiFact:

“A National Journal writer, S.V. Dáte, estimated Trump started with $40 million in 1974 when he became president of his father’s real estate company. By one estimate, the firm was worth about $200 million. Divided among Donald Trump and his four siblings, each would have received $40 million.”

Source:
http://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2016/mar/07/did-donald-trump-inherit-100-million/

Instead of saying

“For one thing, most people I know would not tell such blatant lies one after another. Maybe because they did not inherit $40 million at age 18 and so depend on people’s trust.”

I should have said:

“For one thing, most people I know would not tell such blatant lies one after another. Maybe because they were not worth $40 million by age 18 and so depend on people’s trust.”

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 22:06:08 nomad

narcissistic? as if this is unusual for public figures. Obama. both Clintons, bush2. Nixon? Reagan?
‘I did not have sex with that woman’ is that any less narcissistic than Trump? And Hillary!!! please!
narcissistic? obviously. who’s to say its a disorder?
if it is he has plenty of elite company.

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on Mon Feb 6th 2017 at 22:11:54 resw

@nomad

“narcissistic? as if this is unusual for public figures.”

+1000

” who’s to say its a disorder?”

Why Dr. Julian Abagond, MD of course.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 13:14:11 sharinalr

Although you guys are likely joking, being narcissistic is a disorder. It is a personality disorder. It is rarely treated as narcissist refuse to seek help unless pushed to or a side effect of the disorder becomes overwhelming. It is found more so in men, so it would not surprise me if most, if not all, politicians have it.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 18:03:54 Fan ...

” It is rarely treated as narcissist refuse to seek help unless pushed to or a side effect of the disorder becomes overwhelming. It is found more so in men…”

@ Sharina

Perhaps this disorder is found more in men than women because women are rarely referred to as such. It’s about the same thing as men never being referred to as a “diva” or the lesser used phrase, prima donna.

The same disorder is found in both genders. They’re just called different names.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 18:33:58 nomad

Narcissism bothers us in Trump but not, by contrast, in Obama.
How’s this for narcissism?

Obama To Dems: Don’t Worry, You’ve Got ‘Me’
IBD’s Capital Hill ^ | 1/25/2010 | Ed Carson
Posted on 1/25/2010, 6:59:32 PM by Slyscribe

Many Democratic lawmakers fear they could be looking at a 1994-style electoral debacle, but President Obama says the “big difference” between now and then is “me.”

That’s according to Rep. Marion Berry, D-Ark. He’s worried Democrats will take a major beating at this fall’s midterms. But Berry says the White House isn’t.

“They just don’t seem to give it any credibility at all,” Berry said. “They just kept telling us how good it was going to be. The president himself, when that was brought up in one group, said, ‘Well, the big difference here and in ’94 was you’ve got me.’

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.investors.com …

It was all about Obama. It’s a little ironic to complain about Trump’s narcissism after 8 years of the most narcissistic president in history. Thus far. Trump may outdo him. He’s certainly a strong contender, but right now, Obama holds that honor.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 18:58:36 abagond

@ Fan, etc

Narcissistic personality disorder is a very specific thing defined by US psychiatrists in the “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders” (DSM). I wrote a post on it, well before the rise of Trump:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/narcissistic-personality-disorder/

It is not just some random insult, nor do I mean it as such when I apply it to Trump. It is a real thing. I know someone just like that. Whether Trump actually suffers from NPD is a matter of psychiatric judgement, but it seems very likely from the way he acts, like his Twitter flip-outs.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 19:06:22 abagond

@ nomad

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/the-thief-thief-technique/

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 19:30:34 resw

Just a few months ago Dr. Abagond, MD was quick to label someone a “true conspiracy theorist” when observations were made about the health of the candidate for whom abagond campaigned…

So you can imagine my great surprise to see him spreading conspiracy theories about Trump’s health on this thread.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 21:02:22 nomad

abagond
@ nomad
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/the-thief-thief-technique/
???
sorry, man. the point escapes me.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 21:05:53 Fan ...

@ abagond

“Narcissistic personality disorder is a very specific thing defined by US psychiatrists…”

So was drapetomania, and this so called: Attention Deficit Disorder, a new and recent term manufactured by the psychiatric gatekeepers who are co-joined with the psychotic dispensing arm in Big Pharma.

I can also foresee a new medial/psychological invented term on the horizon for certain weak (green) individuals ^^^^^^^^^^^^ with an overwhelming unabated and relentless desire (disorder) to SUCK up to certain other individuals.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 21:34:43 abagond

@ resw

“Just a few months ago Dr. Abagond, MD was quick to label someone a “true conspiracy theorist” when observations were made about the health of the candidate for whom abagond campaigned…”

That was a joke:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/hillary-clinton-for-president/#comment-334650

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 21:35:46 abagond

@nomad

Whether Obama is a narcissist is besides the point.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 22:34:30 resw

@abagond

So now it’s suddenly a joke? Nice try!

Your white supremacist pal’s dishonesty has clearly rubbed off on you.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 22:45:03 Afrofem

@Scribh

Trump’s disorders and addictions are magnified by his chronic sleep deprivation
(reportedly 3-4 hours per night). Lack of sleep alone can lead to psychotic behavior and hallucinations.

Sleep deprivation is considered torture under international law when you do it to someone else.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 22:52:27 nomad

“Whether Obama is a narcissist is besides the point.”
Absolutely not. It illustrates a double standard. Trump’s narcissism is no worse than Obama or the Clintons. If it disqualifies him it should have disqualified them. This is just another assault on Trump’s character. Not really a good area of attack, IMO. It says objectivity has been thrown out the window.

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on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 23:38:34 Afrofem

@nomad

Obama and the Clintons could accurately be described as:

➤ Scheming

➤ Devious

➤ Corrupt

➤ Selfish

➤ Uncaring

Their actions don’t fit the profile of narcissists.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Tue Feb 7th 2017 at 23:40:57 Solitaire

This is a delicate subject. On one hand, accurate online clinical diagnosis is impossible and usually a bad idea. On the other hand, when the individual is a world leader whose behavior affects us all and who we are trying to learn how to live under, it can be helpful to gain some sense of why he acts the way he does.

As Sharina said, individuals with NPD are rarely diagnosed and rarely treated. The people who usually present for treatment are their adult children, their spouses or exes, or others who have been negatively impacted by their personal interaction with the narcissist. Even in these situations, the NPD diagnosis of the parent/spouse/etc. is often tentative and unofficial because that individual rarely agrees to treatment or co-therapy.

@ Nomad

“Trump’s narcissism is no worse than Obama or the Clintons.”

Narcissism as a clinical disorder does not just involve having an inflated ego. To the best of my knowledge, Obama never had a temper tantrum when speaking with a close ally, yelling at them over the phone and abruptly ending the call.

LikeLiked by 2 people
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 00:18:53 nomad

“Narcissism as a clinical disorder ”
I’m going to leave it to you guys to make the diagnosis. They all, Clintons, Obama, Trump seem narcissistic to me, as per the examples I’ve given.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 02:45:43 sharinalr

@ Fan …

That is a great possibility. The labeling could be seen as different for men and women, but from a psychological standpoint I would simply label it as narcissistic personality disorder regardless of gender. Also much of the behavior found in “divas” are just mild fits compared to what I have witnessed from a narcissist. They typically don’t date, marry, etc. people who are strong willed or even have a career that exceeds them. Their partners tend to be “weak” in the sense that they excuse their behavior. They are extremely manipulative. I had a narcissistic stalk me some months back and she had her whole family convinced I was stalking her. Lucky for me I had the receipts to show the date her harassment began, so when her husband attempted to confront me on it I showed him. He still excused her behavior and when I advised him to get her help he dismissed it as her being young. They will go as far as they need to to make you look like the bad guy if they perceive you as a threat to the fantasy they built. They will do the most so they maintain the image of being the victim and you the bully. If that means having you falsely arrested, then that means they will do just that. Any emotion they show is survival orientated. Meaning they will fake tears if it gets you to support them.

While I agree that society tends to make up reasons to give people medications because of big business, NPD isn’t treated by medicine and I don’t think they could really make a medication to treat it. To me it is a makeup of their personality. They really only use psychotherapy to treat or rather help the person live with it.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 04:15:58 Solitaire

It is possible that NPD is present equally in men and women but underdiagnosed in women.

There is also a theory that when exposed to childhood trauma, males are more likely to develop NPD and females are more likely to develop borderline personality disorder, possibly due to societal “gendering” of different coping techniques.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 04:32:01 abagond

@ Sharina

Good point: there is little to no money to be made on NPD by psychiatrists or drugmakers, so it is hardly some kind of marketing term.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 04:37:53 Afrofem

@Sharina

Based on your description of the person who stalked you recently, narcissists are indeed scheming, devious, selfish and uncaring.

Thank you for your first hand account of dealing with an exasperating person. That taught me a lot.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 09:02:02 Fan ...

” Also much of the behavior found in “divas” are just mild fits compared to what I have witnessed from a narcissist.”

@ Sharina — my layman’s perspective

The range of behaviors that are beneath the narcissist umbrella are also found under MANY other umbrellas, especially the behaviors you painstakingly describe in your own personal experience. Your nemesis could have also been correctly identified as a sociopath, liar, deluded bobble-head, schizophrenic, racist/white supremacist, thief, manic-depressive, banker, POTUS, ceo, nurse, physician, child molester … the list has no end. As long as people PRETEND and HARM others they are a threat and a danger. I’m sure that I’m not the only Black person who views many police officers as narcissistic personalities because of those two primary traits – pretense and harm.

Narcissists are as common as divas and prima donnas – in my opinion. They are probably not as complicated as the shrinks suggest. The behavior could be as simple as consistently liking one’s own posts or relying on others to draw stale milk from old teats well past their prime, as in the case of nannies who should have retired years ago that are STILL breast-feeding white babies at age 80!

I never said or implied that any medical disorders, real or not, must be treated by meds. I merely tied ADD (and not draptomania) to big pharma as an (extra) side note in how some bogus diseases are made for profit.

I’m happy you came out on top of your ordeal, and that you learned some valuable lessons from that experience.

LikeLiked by 2 people
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 11:33:44 satanforce

The range of behaviors that are beneath the narcissist umbrella are also found under MANY other umbrellas, especially the behaviors you painstakingly describe in your own personal experience. Your nemesis could have also been correctly identified as a sociopath, liar, deluded bobble-head, schizophrenic, racist/white supremacist, thief, manic-depressive, banker, POTUS, ceo, nurse, physician, child molester … the list has no end. As long as people PRETEND and HARM others they are a threat and a danger. I’m sure that I’m not the only Black person who views many police officers as narcissistic personalities because of those two primary traits – pretense and harm.

Narcissists are as common as divas and prima donnas – in my opinion. They are probably not as complicated as the shrinks suggest. The behavior could be as simple as consistently liking one’s own posts or relying on others to draw stale milk from old teats well past their prime, as in the case of nannies who should have retired years ago that are STILL breast-feeding white babies at age 80!

People in your personal life will manifest NPD in specific ways.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050306110201/http://www.ippnj.org/mcwilliams1.html

@abagond

It is not just some random insult, nor do I mean it as such when I apply it to Trump. It is a real thing. I know someone just like that. Whether Trump actually suffers from NPD is a matter of psychiatric judgement, but it seems very likely from the way he acts, like his Twitter flip-outs.

See here.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/robert-musil-predicted-rise-donald-trump/
Longer version: http://crookedtimber.org/2016/07/26/donald-trump-moosbrugger-for-president/

From article:

Trump stands out from other demagogues in that he did not seek political power until late in life. His is a political vanity project akin to Ross Perot’s—“I’m running because the people deserve better”—but what’s different is the sheer extent of the vanity. Trump’s overriding concern is not power, but love: being loved, specifically. For most demagogues, from Julius Caesar to Vladimir Putin, love and devotion serve power; here it is the other way round. It was only when America’s culture of celebrity became so overwhelming and vacuous that this reversal of the equation even became possible—or else Trump’s lack of political ambition would have prevented him from even entering the arena. Trump possesses not a Will-to-Power but a Will-to-Fame.

@nomad

Stop focusing on ego. That just obfuscates.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 12:20:09 nomad

This is the latest meme that MSM and its satellites (this blog) are using to attack Trump. He’s Hitler He’s a Russian stooge, Pee gate dossier. Now he’s mentally ill. They are parroting this all over MSM, Unfortunately these guys have no credibility. This over the top antitrump bias is not going to restore it.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 13:03:18 sharinalr

@Solitaire

I think it may very well be under-diagnosed in women and my idea of why is because such behavior has become acceptable. Also could be that some just have a touch of narcissistic behavior and not really full blown.

“There is also a theory that when exposed to childhood trauma, males are more likely to develop NPD and females are more likely to develop borderline personality disorder, possibly due to societal “gendering” of different coping techniques.”—You make a very good point and one I have not considered.

@Afrofem

You are very welcome. Some can be less open in their scheming, but I find it fascinating how their mind works. How it extends to family members and how they choose mates. That experience actually made me interested in personality disorders period.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 14:44:06 nomad

@abagond
“@nomad
Stop focusing on ego. That just obfuscates.”
Take your own advice.

Portrait of two narcissists.
https://politicalfilm.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/bill-dog-1-copy.png?w=1718&h=1080

@Solitaire
“To the best of my knowledge, Obama never had a temper tantrum when speaking with a close ally, yelling at them over the phone and abruptly ending the call.”
Maybe not, but this is not the only symptom of narcissism. The other narcissist, Hillary, is notorious for these kinds of shouting fits.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 14:46:57 nomad

@Satanforce
Oops, sorry. Thought that was from Abagond.

“Stop focusing on ego. That just obfuscates.””

I focus on whatever the hell I want.

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 15:10:48 nomad

This is what I like most about Abagond’s blog.
“500 words a day on whatever [the hell] I want”

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on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 17:24:37 abagond

@ nomad

“This is the latest meme that MSM and its satellites (this blog) are using to attack Trump. He’s Hitler He’s a Russian stooge, Pee gate dossier. Now he’s mentally ill. They are parroting this all over MSM, Unfortunately these guys have no credibility. This over the top antitrump bias is not going to restore it.”

Except that I am currently in orbit round Breitbart News so I do not know what the MSM is reporting. All I know is that you and Breitbart say that it is an MSM meme. And even if it currently is, I wrote this post over two weeks ago.

On this blog, the first person to say that Trump had NPD was islandgirl back in 2010, long before he was president:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/narcissistic-personality-disorder/#comment-62102

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Wed Feb 8th 2017 at 21:07:32 resw

“On this blog, the first person to say that Trump had NPD was islandgirl back in 2010, long before he was president”

Irrelevant.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Thu Feb 9th 2017 at 04:11:40 nomad

I guess it caught on. I don’t watch msm either. this was reported about it from another more reliable source.

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on Sat Feb 11th 2017 at 14:48:51 sharinalr

@Fan …

I agree the range of behaviors are found under many different umbrellas, but there is a difference. Let’s take for example NPD and Manic depressive. A manic depressive will simply find themselves in a depressive state regardless of what is going on or some chain of events. NPD patients will go into a depression, but will never stop seeing themselves as perfect and making effort to keep up the delusions of perfection. The idea of being grand a great and simple depressed over the idea that no one agrees.

“Narcissists are as common as divas and prima donnas – in my opinion.”—They likely are. However, it is not seen that way on the statistical scale because they don’t seek treatment. Solitaire also referred to this as well. They don’t seek treatment because seeking treatment indicates something is wrong with them and that is not in line with the idea of a narcissist. Another thing is some people have narcissistic characteristics, but don’t have the full NPD. Using the example of liking one’s comment. Liking your own comment can be a form of vanity, but being vain is not necessarily an indication of narcissism. While there are similarities between the two (Self-absorbed), but a difference is vanity centers on looks and dating people that match that. Narcissistic center on themselves as a whole and will date good looking people but only if they are willing to keep the idea of them being great despite clear indications that they are not.

“I never said or implied that any medical disorders, real or not, must be treated by meds.”—No, it is my comparing ADD to NPD, big pharma aren’t profiting from NPD. They could have made up both terms and symptoms, but NPD is one that requires therapy that cuts Big pharma out of the loop.

Thank you fan.. I did learn a few things but I think having this discussion allowed me to learn and explore more. I love personality disorders, but in all honest that may point to the psychopath in me…maybe LOL

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on Sat Feb 11th 2017 at 15:53:57 Fan ...

@Sharina

Okay … except for the possible psychopath in you, part. I wish your husband and children well… hopefully it’s not a family trait. LOL

And this:
“but NPD is one that requires therapy that cuts Big pharma out of the loop.”

Nowadays (lifestyles!) anything and everything is potential mental fodder for the shrink’s couch. Lets not forget MDs (psychiatrists) can prescribe pills/meds for any disorders they can create, believe in or imagine. What meds that’s not here today will be available tomorrow. That’s how Big Pharma rolls — ALWAYS churning out new drug formulas, ideas, ALTERNATE science, for mass consumption and PROFITS.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 15:52:00 resw

So Dr. Allen Frances, the psychiatrist who actually invented Narcissistic Personality Disorder, had this to say:

“Most amateur diagnosticians have MISLABELED President Trump with the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. I WROTE THE CRITERIA that define this disorder, and Mr. Trump DOESN’T meet them. He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn’t make him mentally ill…It is a stigmatizing INSULT to the mentally ill ”

So to all the psychiatrists, real and fake, there’s no need to insult the mentally ill and, as Maria Oquendo said a year ago, long-distance diagnosing of nonpatients “would not only be unethical, it would be irresponsible.”

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 19:03:07 sharinalr

resw

Dr. Allen Frances didn’t invent NPD. The only thing he did was sit on the board that helped define the disorders found in the DSM-5.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/amp/donald-trump-isn-t-mentally-ill-he-s-just-unpleasant-n721766?client=ms-android-att-us

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 19:44:24 resw

@sharinalr

So did he lie when he said he “wrote the criteria that define this disorder”?

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 19:54:26 sharinalr

@resw

I honestly have no opinion on whether he is lying or not. I am only speaking on the matter of him inventing the disorder. He can write a criteria that defines it as a mental illness in line with the guidelines of the DSM-5, but writing a criteria does not mean he invented said disorder. For example, sex addiction is not in the DSM-5 yet has already been “invented”.

I don’t doubt he knows what he speaks on, but again he did not invent it.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 20:50:46 Solitaire

@ Sharina

He was the chair of the task force for the DSM-IV. As far as I know, he was not involved in any way with the DSM-5. In fact, he has been a prominent and vocal critic of the DSM-5.

NPD was first described in the literature in the 1920s and was given its current nomenclature in the 1960s.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 20:53:48 resw

@sharinalr

OK, he may not have come up with the name or the idea, but if he decided the criteria that defines the disorder, then I’m not wrong to say he invented it (e.g., Edison and Latimer didn’t invent the name or idea of a light bulb either, but they both invented light bulbs).

So the point remains that Trump doesn’t fit Dr. Frances’ criteria, and I agree with him that it’s an “insult” to the mentally ill for “amateur diagnosticians” to label him as such.

I wouldn’t take much issue with the fact that folks on this thread are spreading these “irresponsible” theories if some of them, namely abagond, weren’t so hypocritically dismissive when other commenters theorise.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 21:11:57 Solitaire

I have to say, I thought he phrased this very well:

“It is a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill (who are mostly well behaved and well meaning) to be lumped with Mr. Trump (who is neither).”

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 21:29:44 sharinalr

@Solitaire

The source above states “Frances chaired the team that defined psychiatric disorders for the mental health profession — the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (called DSM 4). The DSM V or 5 is the most recent edition.” Which is pretty much what I said.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 21:33:27 sharinalr

@resw

You are still wrong in saying he invented it because making a list of criteria to define it is not the same as coming up with the idea of it. For example if I made the criteria for making the perfect pizza, it does not in turn mean I invented pizza. It just means I came up with a way to make it.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 21:51:13 sharinalr

@Solitaire

“He was the chair of the task force for the DSM-IV. As far as I know, he was not involved in any way with the DSM-5. In fact, he has been a prominent and vocal critic of the DSM-5.”—This prompted me to further research the role of DSM-5 task force. It sounds like he does nothing more than give the final go of what goes in or what goes out. Any thoughts?

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:28:26 Solitaire

@ Sharina

I believe it is primarily a managerial role, but that would not preclude the chair from writing portions of the manual, AFAIK.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:34:21 resw

@sharinalr

“It just means I came up with a way to make it.”

No, new improvements on old ideas are also inventions, fyi.

Of course arguing over semantics is besides the point that Trump does not fit the criteria that Dr. Frances not only invented but made the industry standard.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:37:41 sharinalr

Resw

An improvement is an innovation not an invention.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:43:52 Solitaire

For what it’s worth, NPD first appeared in the DSM-III.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:45:48 resw

@sharinalr

OK, perhaps according to you, and that’s fine, but not in law, and not according to the USPTO:

“invention”=”any art or process (way of doing or making things), machine, manufacture, design, or composition of matter, OR ANY NEW AND USEFUL IMPROVEMENT THEREOF, or any variety of plant, which is or may be patentable under the patent laws of the United States.”

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:46:57 Solitaire

@ Sharina

Your point is well-taken but I don’t even think the words invention and innovation are accurate when it comes to illness, whether physical or mental. One does not invent an illness; one observes, records, and describes.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 22:58:21 resw

^But you can invent a “process” or other method of evaluating or diagnosing a patient, which can be patentable.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 23:51:13 sharinalr

Resw

It’s not according to me, but according to the dictionary meaning of those words. And I don’t see where the USPTO defines invention as such. That seems to be more the criteria to get a patent though.

“The patent law says that “any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof” may be patented.35 United States Code, Section 101.

https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_government-regulation-and-the-legal-environment-of-business/s16-01-patents.html

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 23:53:59 sharinalr

Solitaire

Fair enough, but when I presented the differences in terms it was more in a general sense and not to apply to mental disorders.

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on Thu Feb 16th 2017 at 23:55:45 sharinalr

@Solitaire

True it did appear in the dsm-III, but there was an update in 2011. I did view it briefly but not sure of what changes were made to comment specifically on it now. I will further when at my computer.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 00:27:55 Solitaire

Further thoughts:

The entry for NPD in the DSM-IV was almost entirely rewritten for the DSM-5. A side-by-side comparison of the criteria in each edition can be found here: http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/carrerasdegrado/psicologia/sitios_catedras/practicas_profesionales/820_clinica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

Even if Dr. Frances was the sole author of the DSM-IV criteria (and the DSM-III, for that matter), he is not the author of the current definition and criteria. It seems a bit of an exaggeration, then, for him to claim that he wrote the criteria that define the disorder, present tense. His criteria and definition are no longer the standard.

Dr. Frances is correct that it is unethical to diagnose Donald Trump from afar. But on reflection, I find it equally problematic that Dr. Frances unequivocally proclaims that Trump does not have the disorder. He cannot know this for a fact unless Trump is his patient. He can not diagnose from afar, and neither can he rule out a diagnosis from afar.

Dr. Frances appears to be basing his conclusions solely on the fact that, to him, Trump does not seem to be suffering from distress and impairment. He cannot accurately determine this from afar, with knowledge only of the aspects of Trump’s life that are on public display. Impairment can occur entirely on the level of personal relationships and not have an impact on worldly success.

Also, as I noted above, narcissists seldom seek help because they cause distress to those around them. It is the people who live with the narcissist who usually seek treatment due to the distress and trauma they have experienced.

Cluster B personality disorders in general are very different from other forms of mental illness in this respect. The individual’s relationships are often severely impaired, but they have so little empathy and self-awareness that they do not realize there is any problem. The distress is experienced by the people close to them, who they manipulate, gaslight, and otherwise abuse.

Dr. Frances’s larger point — that we do not need to diagnose Trump with a mental illness to determine he is unfit for the presidency — is becoming lost in the media’s focus on Frances’s declaration that Trump does not have NPD, a clinical assessment that he simply is unable to make from a distance.

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 00:32:32 Solitaire

@ Sharina

The above was not directed at you; I hadn’t yet seen your two most recent comments when I was composing it. The above is just general observations reflecting some further thoughts.

My point about the DSM-III was that I seriously doubt, given his age at the time, that Dr. Frances was the individual who wrote or “invented” the first definition of NPD to ever be included in any DSM.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 00:35:09 Solitaire

@ Sharina

“Fair enough, but when I presented the differences in terms it was more in a general sense and not to apply to mental disorders.”

Gotcha.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 11:50:42 sharinalr

@Solitaire

First thing, I need to correct myself earlier in regards to my Roman numerial fudge up above. And use of dsm-5 when I should have said dsm. Dsm-IV is what he worked on and dsm-5 is the update. I typed without paying attention and I fully stand corrected on that account..

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on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 11:57:36 sharinalr

Solitaire

Second thing did not mean to make dual posts.

Third thing is we are pretty much on the same page. I agree fully with your post above as that is completely what I came up with in the end. It is wrong to give him the title of mental illness without personally seeing him, but I think it is accurate to notice the signs so as to get someone like him to seek help (although no one can or likely will).

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on Fri Feb 17th 2017 at 16:04:07 resw

@sharinalr

“And I don’t see where the USPTO defines invention as such. ”

LOL. I quoted it verbatim. That is USPTO’s definition of invention, which includes, “or any new and useful improvement thereof” . It’s in its glossary under a list specifically entitled “Definitions”: https://www.uspto.gov/main/glossary/

But my use of the word “invention” that really doesn’t change the gist of the point I was making: Trump doesn’t fit the standard criteria for NPD, it’s ‘insulting” to the mentally ill, and “irresponsible” and unethical for real and fake psychiatrists to e-diagnose.

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on Sat Feb 18th 2017 at 01:30:45 sharinalr

@resw

I clicked on your link and in yellow this is what is says verbatim:

“You have reached a page which is not part of USPTO’s current website and is no longer maintained. As a result you may encounter hyperlinks which no longer function and the content on this page may contain text and references which are no longer applicable as a result of changes in law, regulation and/or administration.”

However above in my quote and link is also a verbatim of what you said which is an outline of the requirements for a patent. Here is a link to the current site which states “There are three types of patents:
1) Utility patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof;”—Again the requirements and not the definition of invention.

https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents

Your original point is of no concern to me as I have no dispute with it. However, you did attempt to use Frances as an authority on the matter based on your idea that he invented NPD. He didn’t and also did not invent the criteria put in place for it. You then attempted to use the USPTO’s definition of the term, which again is faulty in this situation because a) he did not invent anything and b) he would not be taking this to the USPTO department to begin with. He is no more an authority on the matter than any other psychiatrist on the board. In turn it is also unethical for him to conclude he does not fit the standard seeing as he also did not examine him himself.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 17:53:38 resw

@sharinalr

“I clicked on your link and in yellow this is what is says verbatim:”

And the definition for “invention” is the same on the updated site: https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/glossary#sec-i

“However, you did attempt to use Frances as an authority on the matter based on your idea that he invented NPD.”

And he should be considered an authority since he actually wrote the criteria.

“He didn’t and also did not invent the criteria put in place for it. ”

He said he “wrote” the criteria. I don’t doubt him. If you do, that’s between you and him.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 18:22:27 sharinalr

@Resw

“And the definition for “invention” is the same on the updated site: “—Then that would just make you and the person who put it in wrong. Based on that using the US statute also in the see more which is 35 USC 100, then invention is defined as “The term “invention” means invention or discovery.” Still not what you say.

What you did say and unfortunately the poor sole who decided to skip the research portion of the statute definitions is “any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof etc.” Which is under statue 35 USC 101 for inventions patentable aka criteria for getting the patent states “Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title.” In short he would have to invent or discovery a new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof etc.

Which brings me to your final point “And he should be considered an authority since he actually wrote the criteria.” Him writing the criteria or claiming to is not nor will it ever be the issue in this regard. The issue is you attributing an invention to him that he did not do. Granted I understand why you see the definition as meaning “invention” seeing as whoever wrote the glossary section of the site forgot to check the actual legal statue, but still doesn’t excuse it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/part-II/chapter-10

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 20:03:18 resw

@sharinalr

““The term “invention” means invention or discovery.” ”

And that does not in any way contradict the USPTO’s definition.

“Still not what you say.”

Has nothing to do with what I say. I copied and pasted the USPTO’s definition verbatim. Again, your issue is with them, not me.

“n short he would have to invent or discovery a new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof etc.”

And he “wrote”, a “new” “process” of evaluating a patient. That is an invention, whether or not anyone agrees.

“The issue is you attributing an invention to him that he did not do.”

Since he wrote the criteria for evaluating a patient for NPD, yes, I still consider him the inventor. And it’s OK if you have a different opinion.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 20:22:01 sharinalr

resw

“And that does not in any way contradict the USPTO’s definition.”— It does when the definition of invention according to them is invention or discovery and not “any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof etc.”

“Has nothing to do with what I say. ” —It becomes what you say when you confuse the definition with the criteria. They got it wrong, but doesn’t excuse that you did as well which is what I stated above.

“And he “wrote”, a “new” “process” of evaluating a patient. That is an invention, whether or not anyone agrees.”— That is in and where the issue is. Writing is not creating a new process. He simply wrote it or rather enforced old criteria on a process that was already in place. What he did was up the standards for what is and can be placed in the dsm. Prior to that things lack enough empirical data could and did get put in dsm. As solitaire pointed out NPD was in the dsm-III. A book he had little to do with as he was not on the board.

“And it’s OK if you have a different opinion.”— I agree to disagree on opinion, but not on facts of the matter.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 20:52:29 resw

@sharinalr

“t does when the definition of invention according to them is invention or discovery and not ”

LOL. I said one did NOT CONTRADICT the other–not that they were the same. And you have not shown that they are contradictory.

FYI, federal agencies are given authority to interpret law, and that includes specifying a definition under federal code.

“It becomes what you say when you confuse the definition with the criteria.”

And no one did that. I quoted USPTO’s definition. That you disagree with it has nothing to do with me.

“Writing is not creating a new process.”

I agree. When he said “I wrote the criteria”, I interpreted that as coming up with it. Are you saying he did not create the criteria? How do you know this?

“As solitaire pointed out NPD was in the dsm-III”

And a “light bulb” predated Thomas Edison, yet Thomas Edison still invented a light bulb. So did Lewis Latimer. We went over this.

If you disagree, that’s fine. But in the real world, i.e., people who make improvements to processes are commonly called inventors.

“I agree to disagree on opinion, but not on facts of the matter.”

I’m not disagreeing over facts. Your explanation of what’s not an invention is a matter of opinion.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 21:34:51 sharinalr

@resw

” I said one did NOT CONTRADICT the other–not that they were the same. And you have not shown that they are contradictory.”—That is great, but one is saying one thing and the other is saying another. Which was my point.

“FYI, federal agencies are given authority to interpret law, and that includes specifying a definition under federal code.”—I never denied that they are given authority, but when the authority of the law says one thing and the patent office says another their is a clear conflict of definition.

“And no one did that. I quoted USPTO’s definition. That you disagree with it has nothing to do with me.”—If you are quoting it to make your point then you are in essence agreeing with it and then further saying just that. The definition is found in the glossary, but 2 places have been quoted including the US statue itself indicating that that was the criteria for a patent and not the definition of invention itself.

“Are you saying he did not create the criteria? How do you know this?”–It is called research. If you look up anything on Dr. Frances you will know he did not come up with said criteria. In fact if you compare the dsm-III with DSM-4 that will also show that much of his work is derived from things already in place .
“And a “light bulb” predated Thomas Edison, yet Thomas Edison still invented a light bulb. So did Lewis Latimer. We went over this.”—Whites may consider him an inventor, but he is actually an innovator.

“Your explanation of what’s not an invention is a matter of opinion.”—Actually it is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of the working definition of the word.

“The words innovation and invention overlap semantically but are really quite distinct.

Invention can refer to a type of musical composition, a falsehood, a discovery, or any product of the imagination. The sense of invention most likely to be confused with innovation is “a device, contrivance, or process originated after study and experiment,” usually something which has not previously been in existence.

Innovation, for its part, can refer to something new or to a change made to an existing product, idea, or field. One might say that the first telephone was an invention, the first cellular telephone either an invention or an innovation, and the first smartphone an innovation.”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

In fact if we take a close look at the USPTO’s definition and the US statue, they are both saying said improvements would not have been in existence prior in order to be considered inventions.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 22:59:25 resw

@sharinalr

“but when the authority of the law says one thing and the patent office says another their is a clear conflict of definition.”

I don’t see any “conflict”, and again you haven’t pointed one out. One is a broad definition, the other is specific. If you and others believe there is a “conflict”, then take the USPTO to court.

“Whites may consider him an inventor, but he is actually an innovator”

Kind of irrelevant. I’m just sticking with USPTO’s definition of “invention” since they actually determine who gets a patent or not for an “invention”.

“If you look up anything on Dr. Frances you will know he did not come up with said criteria. ”

Nothing I looked up suggests “he did not come up with said criteria”. And I also read the reasons he gave why the dsm iii criteria were insufficient and inaccurate and the need for new criteria.

“Actually it is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of the working definition of the word”

I don’t recall arguing over the differences between “innovation” and “invention”. But yes, what you consider to be an invention or not is indeed a matter of opinion.

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on Tue Feb 21st 2017 at 23:58:41 sharinalr

@resw

“I don’t see any “conflict”, and again you haven’t pointed one out.”–Actually I clearly pointed out one. One is the definition and is under the US statue section stating definition. The other is under inventions patentable meaning under what circumstances it can have a patent.

“If you and others believe there is a “conflict”, then take the USPTO to court.”–Of course, but that still doesn’t not mean said inaccuracy should fail to be pointed out in discussion. If you use it then it should be subject to scrutiny. Especially if the issue is a matter of interpretation.

“Kind of irrelevant. I’m just sticking with USPTO’s definition of “invention” since they actually determine who gets a patent or not for an “invention”.”—Not really, seeing as the main person you are trying to claim as an inventor wouldn’t be eligible for a patent even if he tried. Due to the very criteria they put forth.

“Nothing I looked up suggests “he did not come up with said criteria”. And I also read the reasons he gave why the dsm iii criteria were insufficient and inaccurate and the need for new criteria.”—Yet I wager nothing you looked up said he “came up with it” either. In fact the dsm-3 and the dsm-4 use the same criteria but different wording. Unless his invention is the art of rewording.

“I don’t recall arguing over the differences between “innovation” and “invention”.—Then let me refresh your memory. You stated “No, new improvements on old ideas are also inventions, fyi.” In which I stated “An improvement is an innovation not an invention” and you attempted to use the USPTOs definition. Thus you are indeed arguing over the different between innovation and invention. Maybe later the USPTO can be broken down for further discussion.

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on Wed Feb 22nd 2017 at 00:38:04 sharinalr

“what you consider to be an invention or not is indeed a matter of opinion.”—What I consider is a dictionary meaning of the words. Not what I personally consider, so based on your logic then tour very definition of the word invention is a matter of opinion. Good to know. 😉

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on Fri Mar 31st 2017 at 18:47:49 miss b

@Abagond

Could you please do a post on Robert Mercer and/or Rebekah Mercer? You mentioned in your post above that he was one of Trump’s top donors but his influence on Trump and Trump’s administration is something I think most readers who regularly visit would be interested in knowing. Thanks!

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on Fri Mar 31st 2017 at 19:15:09 abagond

@ miss b

You read my mind! I will do one on Robert Mercer.

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on Thu May 11th 2017 at 18:39:22 abagond

Trump told The Economist, of all people, that he invented the phrase “priming the pump”:

“Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It’s what you have to do,”

Merriam-Webster dictionary then tweeted:

“The phrase ‘priming the pump’ dates to the early 19th century.”

and:

“‘Pump priming’ has been used to refer to government investment expenditures since at least 1933.”

which is how Trump meant it.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/332889-trump-tells-economist-he-invented-the-phrase-priming-the-pump

(https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/862640442474672129)

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on Thu May 11th 2017 at 23:37:03 Afrofem

@ Abagond

So says the Toddler-in-Chief. LOL!!!

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on Fri Jul 7th 2017 at 02:37:33 michaeljonbarker

“The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.”

Donald Trump

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on Fri Jul 7th 2017 at 06:20:58 Afrofem

@ michaeljonbarker

That is pure international alt-right White Supremacist-speak.

Trump and his posse seem to have made a decision to ignore the American majority and focus solely on keeping their reactionary base ginned up and ready for action (shudder).

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