Matoaka (1595?-1617), whose married name was Rebecca Rolfe, is best known by her nickname, Pocahontas (“Little Wanton”). She is known for saving the life of John Smith, a leader of Jamestown, Virginia, the beginning of what would become the US. She has been an Anglo American legend since at least the early 1800s, a Disney princess since 1995.
She lived in Tsenacommacah (now Tidewater Virginia), a member of the Pamunkey nation. She was one of ten daughters of Powhatan, who led the 30 Algonquian nations of the Powhatan Confederacy.
Calling her a princess is a stretch. Even if you see Powhatan as a king, power passed through the mother’s nephew’s line.
According to Disney legend, she fell in love with John Smith and, when her father was about to kill him, saved his life.
Most likely:
- She was not in love – she was only 11 or 12, while Smith said nothing about any love between them. Compared to Algonquian men, he was short and unbelievably hairy for a human.
- Powhatan’s threatening to kill him – and her saving him – were probably play acting, part of a ritual that adopted Smith as a son to Powhatan.
As Pocahontas later reminded Smith:
“You did promise Powhatan [that] what was yours should be his, and he the like to you; you called him father being in his land a stranger…”
Pocahontas became their go-between. She was still a girl then, doing cartwheels through Jamestown – naked!
Jamestown could not support itself. That led to famine, disease, cannibalism – and war with Powhatan. They took Pocahontas hostage.
While a hostage she stayed for a time with Reverend Alexander Whitaker. He taught her the Christian faith – the Apostles’ Creed, the Lord’s Prayer and the Ten Commandments – in English.
By the time she was 18, John Rolfe, age 28, had feelings for her:
“my hearty and best thoughts are, and have for a long time been so entangled, and enthralled in so intricate a labyrinth, that I was even awearied to unwind myself thereout.”
She was baptized an Anglican Christian, they married and had a son. We do not know what she felt for Rolfe: she may have married him to help her father make peace.
She went with Rolfe to England – he to push Virginia tobacco, she to push Christian education for Tsenacommacah. She did not see Christian and Tsenacommacah religion as contradictory.
Smith presented her as a princess so that she would be respected. She met King James I and Ben Jonson, Shakespeare’s old rival.
She saw Jonson’s “The Vision of Delight” (1617) – while others complained that she was “no fair lady,” despite “her tricking up and high style and titles.”
Two months later she took sick and died, probably of smallpox, age 22, far from home.
Rolfe’s multiracial Virginia was not to be: another cross of his – Caribbean and Virginian tobacco – proved a hit and gave Virginia a big moneymaker. But it took a huge amount of land and labour. Native genocide and Black slavery followed.
Source: mainly “Facing East from Indian Country” (2001) by Daniel K. Richter.
See also:
- Welcome to Native American Heritage Month 2014
- The Delaware – Algonquians farther up the coast
- Juan Rodriguez – meanwhile in Manhattan…
- Anglo American racism in the 1600s against
- English
- Christianity
To make note out of all the Disney princesses she is one of the least known or seen. They do not market her at all as compared to the other princesses. Who gave her the nickname Pocahontas might I ask? If it is known that is.
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Even though she had only the one son, he lived in Virginia as a wealthy planter and had gazillions of descendants. Most have been well-to-do white people for many generations. One of the ironies of state recognition in the Upper South is that those people who are recognizably people of color have no paper trail whatsoever to legitimatize their claim to Indianness, and likely were categorized as Black for many generations.
With the Removal Act of 1830 it became illegal to be an Indian in the Upper South and people had to either leave or accept being categorized however the census taker felt like categorizing them. Plecker went through and re-categorized many people as Black who had been claiming themselves Native or white with some Native ancestry. It’s said that Hitler had a photo of Plecker in his office. Those descendants of Matoka who do have a clear documented lineage are usually upper crust whites who have no interest in state recognition.
I do know one descendant, a Pamunkey lady, who looks so much like one of Matoka’s paintings it’s amazing. It’s nice to see at least a few recognized NDN’s who live within the culture who are descended from her.
There is one thing about the ‘Princess’ term I observed. There was an extremely important role for a young woman of intelligence and character to be entrusted with. That was to marry the local trader. There was a godawful arms race going on amongst all the tribes and survival depended on having a good trader. Many of these stories of a “Princess” can be traced back to women like this. Some, like Matoka, were incredibly prolific in the number of descendants they left.
There was a diplomatic function akin to a European princess going on there that these women certainly deserved some respect for. Most of the ‘pioneers’ first ‘settling’ the ‘frontier’ were offspring of such women. They’d form a county, run the local govt for awhile, until the immigrants arrived who knew what white people are really supposed to look like. Then the ‘pioneers’ or their children would find themselves relegated to the bottom of the pecking order again. With the genealogical and historical research I’ve done, that’s my take on the Princess term.
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George Ryder
“looks like Disney still markets her in fact…”—Looks like you still lack reading comprehension “in fact”. I said “They do not market her at all as compared to the other princesses.” Compared to the other princesses Pocahontas is the least marketed princess of them all. While other princesses have wide marketed book bags, attire, dolls etc. Her merchandise is near invisible. When I took my daughter to the Disney princess store there was sections for every princess but her. If you go to Disney she is also scarce. While you can see all the princesses in Magic kingdom and during princess dinners she is not one of those that you will see. You can only see her in Animal Kingdom.
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Fyi the online store is not a reflection of the larger marketing market. So while you tried you failed.
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Looks like someone is looking for a fight.
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George Ryder
“I don’t know about that, Pocahontas grossed over over $346 million in box office, so she was seen & known plenty. From a pure dollars perspective she’s as iconic as any Disney “princess.””—I am glad that in 1995 when she came out she grossed that much, but it is 2014 and she is not a widely known princess if anyone of this new generation even considers her that. Snow white came out before her and is more known and seen. I am not talking about several years ago I am talking about today. Keep up or but out.
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@thwack
“Looks like someone is looking for a fight.”—Looks like someone is look for attention. There you got some.
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@Linda Keres Carter
Thanks for the detailed information. I admire you contributions.
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correction your*
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Sharinalr said “Thanks for the detailed information. I admire you contributions.”
Thank you so much!
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One thing that is really fascinating about women like Matoka is that their descendants are very evenly mixed among all three ‘races.’ So many cousins! There was a spell there in the Nineties when they were all coming together as such in the Revival following “Dances With Wolves” but sadly it all descended into the Wannabe Wars that fractured along, you guessed it, racial lines, and all that clarity was lost yet again.
I wonder how Matoka feels about all that.
I know of two young men who are descended from a woman like her, one’s a blue eyes blonde white guy, the other is very dark skinned black guy. But the gray matter’s identical. Both very brilliant. Would have been fun to get the two of them in the same room. Scintillating. Same vibe. Obviously cousins.
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It seems what is known about her is kind of muddled and a lot of false information and glossing over and colorful storytelling and myths.
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Hey what about Sacagwea? Her life is a mystery too. Some sources say she was a slave to her husband others just focus on the fact that she helped Lewis and Clark trade with other tribes.
Only reason she is remembered is because she helped white people as Abagond mentioned before.
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I think an article should be done on Susan Laflesche the first Native American woman to become a doctor. Also an article on Dona Marina would e interesting. She was a slave/interpreter of Cortes. Some regard her as a hero for helping to end Aztec rule others see her as a traitor and no good whore.
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Went to the Jamestown site three years ago, in the middle of winter. We had the place to ourselves, which left me alone to work out my own thought without interference from the gawking masses of tourists. I’m good at that, working out my own thoughts.
My takes on Pocahontas Matoaka Amonute Rebecca Rolfe is that first, she was an aristocrat. She may not have been a princess, but an aristocrat, yes. When the English arrived she was about 11 years old. She was 19 years old when she left with John Rolfe. The idea of being married off to another tribe may be have been part of her received cultural self-concept, and therefore not so disturbing to her. Or maybe it was disturbing or outside of her expectations. She was for some time held a captive for ransom by the English, but converted to Christianity, then married the Englishman.
Those with a greater knowledge of Native culture might be able to shed some light on the situation. But in the end, we can never know for certain what she felt about what happened to her.
I surmised that by the time she married and left England she probably was quite culturally astute and no doubt bilingual. She was not a savage, that seems obvious enough. The idea of an adolescent, even a pubescent, girl playing the role of linguistic go-between is something that is highly familiar to us in today’s America. I suspect she played that role prior to her capture during hostilities, but no certainty of that.
Author H.W. Brands called Benjamin Franklin “the first American”. The title ultimately has to apocryphal, but maybe it better belongs to Pocahontas. Due to one prolific descendant, her line survived on both sides of the Atlantic, and who knows how many Americans actually are descended from her, black white and Native. Maybe she deserves the title “Mother of a Nation”.
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@Mary and Curious
It just seems a bit strange to me that all the work these women did that their life seem such a mystery. In fact I would say that much of what is known about Native Americans seem to be some what of a mystery. Maybe it is just me and maybe I am thinking too hard, but it was just a thought to me.
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@LKC
I think this is a key issue. Native Americans were not always wiped out by death (ie murder or disease). Some were simply forced to assume a different racial identity.
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The song from the Disney film Pocahontas soundtrack “The Colors of the Wind” by Vanessa Williams is a pretty song. This is Disney’s white washed version of First Nations people. I guess the images from the song for example “Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon” I suppose that image would give the song a First Nations vibe. Not a fan of Disney at all but that was a thought seeing the animated Disney version in this post thread.
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Pocahontas looks Mexican
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George Ryder
The only one who has an issue admitting they are wrong is you. You spoke on something you have little or no real world knowledge on and proceeded to use a website to try and prove your case. Were you even aware that stores sell online what does not sell in stores? Store only look to stock what will sell. When was the last time you saw anything Pocahontas in the store with Disney on it? You can make up a lie but I have ways of checking store inventory. In fact I will use your very link to prove my claim here:
They do not market her at all as compared to the other princesses.
In your very link Pocahontas has a total of 10 merchandises (if you want to count the different dvd expansions separately). If you can count please do enlighten us how many Merchandises does the other princesses have (as to your nature it is likely you will deflect)? I’ll wait.
All princesses will be afforded a webpage, but it does not mean all of them are highly marketed. Now instead of trying to challenge me on a minor issue for the purpose of seeming to engage in the subject, go educate yourself and then come back with a reasonable rebuttal to what I said. One in which a person with half a brain can’t figure out how wrong you are by walking in a store.
Now if you are done I would like to spend my time engaging with the intellectual party on this subject instead of allowing you to attempt to turn it into “George hurt feelings and saving face”.
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Linda Keres Carter
“With the Removal Act of 1830 it became illegal to be an Indian in the Upper South and people had to either leave or accept being categorized however the census taker felt like categorizing them.”—-I was not aware of this at all. I do a great deal of genealogy work for my family. On my grandfathers side we were lucky enough to have pictures to match with names. Look at his family I was often confused on why they were marked as black or sometimes mulatto when they did not really look as such. With this information it kind of leaves me confused on what they were. I always assumed due to the one drop rule that was why they were/are black. My grandfather always identified as being black so I felt it was simply appropriate. I guess my question is….was it just the Upper South of possible other areas?
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George Ryder
“No Sharina. no matter how many paragraphs you write you are still wrong & you have absolutely no data to back up anything.”—Yet not only did I use your very link to prove what I said, but I also have real world experience and when I have time I will be happy to either go to my local walmart website inventory and post a link for you to see, but also take picture of the stores in my area for you to see how wrong you are. You on the other hand have nothing but one link which failed to support what you claim to be disputing with me.
“that film was one of Disney’s highest grossing movies of all time & when it comes to marketing the bottom $$$ is all Disney cares about, so once again she was marketed equally as well if not better…”—I never said that is was not popular in 1995. What I said and what you have an issue comprehending is “To make note out of all the Disney princesses she is one of the least known or seen. They do not market her at all as compared to the other princesses.” Nothing in that said she WAS which would indicate past. You are argue what she was in the past verse what I said about her in the present. You are the funny one and look a bit slow trying to push you idea of what I said onto what I actually said to make yourself look right.
“yer so stubborn Sharina. they all have between 10-12 items”—See here is where you deflect. I asked you “If you can count please do enlighten us how many Merchandises does the other princesses have (as to your nature it is likely you will deflect)”. All of them having between 10-12 items is not an answer to that. When I have time I will give you a head count of all of them,
In the mean time you will say anything I say as wrong. In the past it always took a male commenter to come in and tell you you were wrong before you were like…”oh I did not know that” This is just another day going on and on with George.
FYI most of my comment with you have no back up dear and next time you try to call me out make sure it is something you are right about and something that does not show your lack of reading comprehension. 🙂
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George Ryder
“when it comes to specific stores it’s all supply & demand. so obviously they stock they shelves with products they know people will buy.”—So your follow up comment is backtracking, but was it not you who claimed she was so popular and well known. Surely such a well known princess such as Pocahontas would have shelves and shelves of merchandise and top priority Marketing.
Bye George
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George Ryder
You didn’t even bother to read or comprehend the first comment I made in this post which is why you wasted my time and yours with your redundant stupidity only to backtrack and avoid/deflect. Grow up seriously. If you can’t have an adult conversation then stop joining in them.
“no one can tell you a damn thing Sharina, now way! good day!”—Your claim not mine.
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“-I was not aware of this at all. I do a great deal of genealogy work for my family. On my grandfathers side we were lucky enough to have pictures to match with names. Look at his family I was often confused on why they were marked as black or sometimes mulatto when they did not really look as such. With this information it kind of leaves me confused on what they were. I always assumed due to the one drop rule that was why they were/are black. My grandfather always identified as being black so I felt it was simply appropriate. I guess my question is….was it just the Upper South of possible other areas?”
Black Americans have a huge amount of NDN descent, particularly in the Upper South. I’ve been told Africans can see it more than Americans can. It’s not a question of who has it, it’s a question of who doesn’t. Your grandfather may not have mentioned it because, with the one-drop rule, it made no difference in his life. And it may go so far back there’s no memory of it.
In ante-bellum days the confusion in being able to tell the difference between a ‘mulatto’ and an NDN was totally exploited by slave traders kidnapping free NDN people and selling them into slavery.
After Removal, It’s not unusual to see people being classified as two or three different races in their lifetime. It could depend on the whim of officials, a change in location, change in racial climate. In general, the more westerly you were the easier it was to be classified as white, and be accorded your civil rights as a result. You know, little things like your kids being allowed to go to school.
One of my favorite stories was about a badass white southerner in a midwestern territory who was arrested and then moved that the judge dismiss the case on the grounds that the sheriff was no white man. His mother was an NDN. So the judge told him, so was my grandma, and whether you like it or not you’re going to do exactly what we tell you to do.
In general, racial classifications were a mess, totally political and arbitrary and not to be trusted. Personally, when it comes to white-identified families, I trust family stories more, depending on circumstance. There are always the NOT Indians — people you know really are mix-bloods because they’re protesting so loudly that they’re not. And if there are old stories in the family of Native blood, it’s really likely it’s true, given how much trouble it was to have it. Not something people were going to make up, just info passed along quietly within the family. Though there are those following Plecker’s logic, that light skinned people claiming Native ancestry are just saying that to obscure the fact that they’re really ‘just’ black.
DNA tests may be helpful. They can show that you got it, but they won’t prove that you don’t. Those markers just might not be showing up.
The thing that fascinated me the most about the research I did was the evidence clearly there that these mixed blooded communities HAD a community, often moving westerly together over many generations, intermarrying and maintaining their identity. It took a long time before America broke that down, and actually never completely broke it down, since so many of us found each other the minute the internet enabled it. There was always someone carrrying the story, and the loyalty it entailed, forward.
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George Ryder
“you’re welcome Sharina, consider yourself corrected!”—Most certainly not by you. Who in their right mind would thank someone for backtracking after getting proven wrong? That is just ludicrous. Remember George, “De nile is not just a river in Egypt”. It so happens to be an attribute of your personality.
Beside if you keep putting me on the pedestal of being perfect when I am not claiming such, then that is on you. Stop trying to make it something I am claiming, but then again compared to the comments you make on here It might be about right. 🙂
Later liar.
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Linda Keres Carter
Thank you once again for the detailed account.
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George Ryder
“Not only did i educate you on the origin of Pocahontas’ nickname”—Telling me what Wikipedia says is not educating someone on the “origins” of a nickname. ROFL.
“corrected your thoughts on Disney’s marketing practices.”—By corrected you mean back-peddling? You know like how you claimed she was so popular and well known yet seemed to try to avoid answering the questions about when the last time you saw her merchandise in the store or how much merchandise she has compared to the other princesses? Or did you mean your confusion on her merchandise in 1995 vs 2014? Oh wait I know you must mean how you are now trying to claim Disney demand. Yet if she was so popular and well know that demand should reflect several areas right?
Oh and I did a search on stores in New York, California, Florida (particularly areas close to Disney), South Carolina, and Georgia. Most only had the combo DVD and nothing else. Would you like for me to do a search somewhere else to find this high demand area? Would you also like my inventory search links as well?
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@ George
Another thing I want to make a quick note of before you make a lackluster rebuttal. You may not like it, but you seriously need to take into consideration either learning reading comprehension or stop salivating at the mouth every time you think you got a 1up on me.
My question to the room was:
“Who gave her the nickname Pocahontas might I ask? If it is known that is.”
Your response
“The name Pocahontas was a childhood nickname, it meant “little wanton”. At least that is what Wiki says.”
Notice It does not answer my question of WHO.
Things like this (and it is one of many) make you look really desperate and it gets worse when you follow up with responses to try to cover up your mistakes/lack of comprehension. Even though I saw this, I did not make an effort to correct you one bit. Though I most certainly could have several posts up. You really need to get a grip dude. Telling yourself a lie several posts on will not make it the truth.
Good night as I am sure you will have this board laced with your hurt feelings tomorrow.
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George Ryder
“you now know a little bit more about the origin of Pocahontas’ nickname & Disney’s marketing strategy thanks to me, you are very very welcome, no thanks required.”—Actually I know a little bit more about her because I read Abagond’s post. I will quote it for you ” is best known by her nickname, Pocahontas (“Little Wanton”)” You told me nothing more than what he had already said.
Thank you Abagond for the education!
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ahhh Delusions of grandeur.
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George Ryder
As a liar and a cheat I would expect no there response. Taking credit for the work of other is a new one though. 😉
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Correction other*
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On to reality, I have to wonder why she is the least marketed princess. Even Tiana, who I really thought would be low in marketing, seems to have more going on in regards to Disney. For example, Disney has release these My First Disney Princess Baby Dolls and guess who does not have one?
Was there any film about her that was more inline with the truth or was every release whitewashed?
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George Ryder
Considering that I can quote your lies and the cheating behavior, it is more like if you say so or wrote so. Would you like an example of such behaviors? 🙂
Now bye George all this desperateness from you is stifling.
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As a weekend humor…Pocahontas is at 2:02 mark.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOnfwEuA3GI)
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Sjharina said, “On my grandfathers side we were lucky enough to have pictures to match with names. Look at his family I was often confused on why they were marked as black or sometimes mulatto when they did not really look as such.”
Do you have reasons to suspect there may be Native blood in the mix? Where were these people living? Is there something about the way they look that makes you wonder?
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Linda Keres Carter
“Do you have reasons to suspect there may be Native blood in the mix?”—-My grandmother said that my great-grandmother was (my grandfathers mother) Indian. Though for the longest I felt she maybe confused and I always believed many on my grandfathers side to be melungeons. However I maybe completely wrong.
“Where were these people living?”—From the amount that I traced they all seem to be from South Carolina.
“Is there something about the way they look that makes you wonder?”— This image is closest to how my grandfather and his brothers look (http://www.geneticsandsociety.org/img/original/Melungeons.jpg)
I will try to get an actual image of him or his brothers for better reference. Right now most are linked to facebook and I am doing my best to keep that private. 🙂
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Oh, some a those kinda looking people, LOL. Some of them mountain “white” people. What names you got?
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Linda Keres Carter
LOL. Scott, Johnson, and O’bannon or O’Banner depending on who you are talking to.
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George Ryder
“Sharina, please prove i am both a liar & a cheat then…yawn.”—Certainly. Would you like me to use this post or would you like me to go through other posts you have comment on? Frankly every post you made on here contains a lie.
For example Did you not claim you would leave abagonds blog so that those people who actually enjoy the blog can enjoy it without your nonsense. Yet less than a week later you are back. So there is one lie in itself. 🙂
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Got any town names?
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Linda Keres Carter
Silverton area, but it may have changed to part of Aiken overtime.
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George Ryder
That is easy. All you have to do is read back through this post. Here is the definition of cheat in case it has eluded you:
to deceive or practise deceit, esp for one’s own gain; trick or swindle (someone)
I will give a later comment with detail of each one. Again though, would you like just this post or something from the others?
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@Sharina,
I strongly suspect that most white people from the Upland South (ie, the Atlantic piedmont and southern Appalachia and the area immediately west of the Southern Appalachia) esp. those who identify as ethnically “American” and can trace their ancestry in the US to before the civil war (and ESPECIALLY those who can trace it to before the revolutionary war) do have African or Native American ancestors or both in their family trees.
You can learn about the “Black Irish” and “Black Dutch” in the South. These terms were used either by Melungeons or by the people who tried to avoid removal during the Cherokee and Choctaw Trail of Tears to get reclassified as white.
And many black Americans will share some of these same ancestors.
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@jefe
Thanks. I will try to do more research tomorrow on the terms you mentioned to see what pops up. Perhaps it will lead to me finding more of my ancestors.
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That’s likely Siouan — Catawba. There are state recognized Catawba, but they’re very Christian, don’t mix with other NDN groups, don’t pow wow. I could be wrong but I think they are, like many of these groups, racist. Tri-racial isolates in the Upper South can be really weird with that. You’ll have one cousin who’s enrolled with the tribe and another who isn’t and the one who is is bad-mouthing his cousin as nothing but a n___ and THEY LOOK LIKE TWINS. It gets really bizarre.
Or there’s a group that looks like dark-skinned black people to anyone else in the world, but they really believe they look like NDNs and they’re really hostile to those Black people down the road.
The guy who wrote “The Education of Little Tree” (autobiographical) was a member of the Klan.
But there’s another way to view this. Being recognized by the govt as NDN basically happened by surrendering to the govt and becoming ruled / contained / controlled by it. You can just as well look at people who stayed off the grid and did their own thing as the more real NDNs, and the main reason status NDNs are keeping everybody else at bay is so they don’t have to share any of the govt entitlement pie. They’ve been bought off.
That’s how all those debates play out. It’s beyond tiresome. Those BIA fat cats are laughing in their graves at the genius of the Divide and Conquer system they instituted. Works like a charm. You’d think we’re in the Balkans.
Anyway cuz, ur one of us Siouan people. (Not to say there aren’t any Tuscarora or Cherokee in ur mix.) We’ve got 20,000 posts of data on it. Cousin Marc has just showed up and is getting our forum rolling again. He literally is a documented cousin of mine, Our families moved across country together, Were separated about 150 years. That’s about all that’s left on the site. Dreaminghawk has a wealth of knowledge. I have an article that’s been up forever and brought most of the people to the site. http://www.saponitown.com/Blackfoot.htm. Join us!
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@Linda KC
Thanks so very much. I have tons more I wish to share when I have more time, but as for now you have given me a good start along with jefe.
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I hope you can share it on our forum. The amassing of all that information has helped all of us. We’d love to have you! These are very noisy Ancestors with a mischievous sense of humor. You’ll have a blast.
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George, sometimes the best way to reveal truth to a black person is to let the racists kick the sh*t out of them. Some of us are very stubborn and when need the beat down in order to accept something as true.
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@ George
“yes please, i’d be very interested to see how i specifically cheated others.let’s see what you can come up with.”—See this statement is a form of cheating. I never mentioned anything about others, but notice how quickly you proceeded to change the direction or my need of proof to being “others”. In your mind this will likely limit the amount of proof I can provide. This is a tactic you also used on the thread about Boko harum. Where you made one claim, when it was proven false or wrong you proceeded to change the direction of the debate to something you felt you had the advantage on. You did the same in this thread when you attempt to change my claim to Pocahontas popularity in 1995 when it was clear I was speaking on present tense. You continued to do similar throughout this entire thread. I think it is pointless to quote every single situation again as A) It has already been pointed out and B) You will likely sit and deny it even with it looking you in the face. Just like the black knight in Monty Python. Plus serves me no purpose to repeat myself. But I will do a solid and point out some form of cheating/deception I have notice in your behavior.
1. You have called me a stalker, yet you seem to pop up on posts that I am on. This is not the first.
2. You claim I critique people yet had no issue critiquing and calling people all type of things because they engaged Thwack (you might have been jealous).
3. You talk so much crap about commenters that leave or have been banned, yet had nothing to say when they were here. That is not only cowardly it is cheating because likely they can not respond back.
4. If you want to get a bit more technical you pretty much cheated your way out of answering those questions I asked.
Your tactics are the type of deception that many white racist before you used. Make you look like the victim and your actions justified blah blah blah. At any rate I wish to make this my very last post to you as engaging with you hinders my learning experience on this thread. Talking to you is pointless. It is much easier to poke fun at you and keep it moving or ignore you. 🙂
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@Thwack
Courtesy of Legion. 🙂
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George Ryder
A liar yes, but a cheat not likely as I have used no form of deception and clearly nothing that will compare to what you have done and continue to do. Plus if I was pigheaded then I would not likely listen to other commenters such as Legion, Linda KC, Jefe, and a whole heap of others that I respect.
You I have no respect for and nothing you say is going to make me agree with your opinion over some basic facts I found in about 10 minutes of research. Pigheaded suits you more. I asked you did you want to links to my search. You deflected from those and I am sure it is easy to realize why. Toodles.
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George Ryder
Nice try pot. I know a 3 year old who is likely up to your speed.
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George Ryder
only truth i’m trying to reveal to sharina is she’s the most pigheaded woman on earth & no one can tell her a damn thing, even on some insignificant ish like a Disney cartoon.
———————————————————————————————-
You do realize George, its not just her?
Its actually most black people.
Tragically, the best time to help a black person is right after they GNTFO.
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Linda Keres Carter
Just finish reading a good bit of the link you provided. Interesting enough even though there are those that are not related to me, there are those surnames that I know. Families that have been associated with mine for several generations now. There is very detailed information in that article.
@ Jefe
I did some research on Black Indians and was really surprised at what I found. Unfortunately I feel like going into a lengthy discussion here will take the spotlight from Pocahontas. I hope abagond is planning on doing a post about it. 😦
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In the Disney version Pocahontas mother was dead. According to this webpage I ran accross “When she was born, Powhatan sent her mother home to her own village, to raise Pocahontas. That was his custom. When she was about school age, Pocahontas left her mother to live in her father’s capital, with with her older brothers and sisters.” http://pocahontas.morenus.org/
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Kiwi
Probably about the same place he got the idea that he is the “savor” of black people.
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sharinalr
Kiwi
Probably about the same place he got the idea that he is the “savor” of black people.
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I wouldn’t save you even if you could spell SAVIOR.
Indeed Kiwi, many different kinds of people have this same problem; but black people need the most help.
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thwack
No worry. I would rather die tHan have you save me. 🙂
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imagining*
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Abagond, how long is my response to Kiwi in this thread going to be held in moderation?
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@Kiwi
People assuming black Americans act the same all over has always been an annoying problem. But it’s easier for some people to prescribe a monolithic characteristic to a group of people rather than look at each person on their individual merits.
And Abagond, what are you going to do about the bullying behavior I’m seeing from thwack and George Ryder vis-a-vis sharinalr? It’s getting out of hand.
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Mack Lyons (@DDSSBlog)
I was planning on email Abagond about it, but was greatly hesitant simply because instead of ignoring them as I likely should I engaged.
Though here is one problem that needs to be addresses, the strong and extremely vulgar nature of many of thwack’s comments are a major concern and needs to be addressed. I would go so far as to call it rape fantasy geared in my direction that needs to be deleted immediately.
As to George, it is likely that he has no real clue what bullying is even though in most cases he finds himself try to be sly in engaging me on threads he has likely never been on, but magically appears on when I am there. Even in his comments above he mentions his purpose of being on this thread was not to engage on the subject but to prove some point to me.
Thank you for your concern. I appreciate it greatly. 🙂
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Some people should just be ignored.
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George Ryder
SMH. Sharina can bully with the best of them i’m sure, & no one can tell her a damn thing…
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Sharina attacked my testicles.
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jefe
That is true and a bad habit I have is not, but ignore or not I see the rape fantasies as disturbing. So enduring is no longer an option. The stalking and desperate behavior of George to try and make anyone look worse than him….that can be simply ignored.
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@George Ryder
I’ve had the displeasure of following some of your diatribe. Trust me, it’s not a good look for you.
@sharinalr
I understand Abagond’s moderation is a bit laissez faire, especially when it comes to some of our resident bigots (paging biff), but he’d be a lot less tolerant of those guys if they were half as misogynistic as our friend here.
You know, I just hope that thwack doesn’t become Abagond’s Missing Stair Problem, as that would bode ill for the future of the comments section.
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@Sharina,
Near the area where I grew up there are many communities of tri-racials. I am not sure what their typical racial mix is, but I assume that it is 40-45% black, 40-45% white, 15-25% Native American. Of course, many phenotypes are found.
I think in the 1970 census, many marked “black” on their census forms, but starting switching to “Native American” in 1980. They claim they are descendant of the Piscataway Indians which are the aboriginal peoples of Southern Maryland. They are also called “Conoy” which is also indicated on the map in the article above (as part of the northern region of the Powhatan confederacy).
I remember when I was in High School, I was very interested in learning about how that happened (partially because I did wonder what happened to the aboriginal peoples where I grew up – nothing was said about them or taught in school). I found out that there are many communities from the mid-Atlantic to the Southeast. I read that they maintained a separate identity in isolated communities, but when most migrated to urban areas, they usually “merged” with black (although, I suspect that some here and there also “merged” with white).
There is some evidence that many of them do have some ancestry tracing back to the local Native American tribes, but they have not maintained that identity since the 19th century, ie, until the resurgence in the late 20th century. They do not speak the language or practice the customs and most have small amounts of native American ancestry, if any, so I don’t know what it means to identify as Native American for them. There has been some attempt to revive some of the culture. But really, I think culture begins at home and community.
The tribe is recognized by the State of Maryland, but not Federally.
I wonder if they opted to check “2 or more races” after the 2000 census or if they stick to Native American.
It seems like in places like Mississippi, where you can find triracial or quadriracial people, they have started to switch to “2 or more races”.
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You still think you’re in middle school. Or perhaps on the set of “Baby Boy”. A regular Jody on his single-speed beach cruiser. Give it a rest, bruh.
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@ML
Point noted.
Abagond already mentioned about people dropping stink bombs – he just ignores them, I guess. The only other action he took was to make the derailments off topic.
The only time a retort works is when they drop a stink bomb right on their face. Some are so dimwitted that they do not even realize when it happened until it is too late.
This will just egg certain people on.
One thing to do — stay on topic. Don’t let it get derailed.
By the way, after watching ” The New World” (2005)” I always wondered how accurate or realistic it was.
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sharinalr
jefe
I see the rape fantasies as disturbing.
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Sharina with the straw man FTW.
The key to understanding womens rape fantasies is to realize the act of themselves being raped is NOT the turn on, or the fantasy….
The fantasy for women with rape fantasies is in imagining themselves so desirable that males are compelled to violate social order, customs, laws, taboos… even DEATH in order to have sex with them.
Its like during lynching in the South were a white woman would say to herself: “im so desirable that a black man will basically commit suicide in order to have sex with me,
one time”
To sum up, its a giant ego trip.
Nothing new here, move along…
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“You know, I just hope that thwack doesn’t become Abagond’s Missing Stair Problem, as that would bode ill for the future of the comments section.”—-I think he has already made it to that point. Thanks for sharing the reference. It was quite an interesting read.
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@Jefe
“By the way, after watching ” The New World” (2005)” I always wondered how accurate or realistic it was.”—I keep telling myself I have seen the movie, but for the life of me I can not remember if I had. I may have lost interest in it due to my fantasized idea of Pocahontas (big Disney fanatic as a child). I will try to find it to watch it to be sure.
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@ thwack
Stop with the vulgar sexual references or you will be banned.
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sharinalr
@thwack
but I promise you I never get mad at lies and desperate attempts by a “man” with no testes. 🙂
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Does that apply to everyone?
Or
just black men such as I?
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@Sharina
He already has.
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Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
You want to change the game?
Do what Tiger Woods did. Do what Michael Jordan did; do what all the early rappers did who couldn’t get on MTV; selling tapes out of the trunk of their car….
Change the game by elevating yours.
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Disney always pretty up the lies to fool others of seeing the dark truth. Disney movies kinda disturb me to the highest point of running from them. The number one movie that disturb me is Hunchback and Notre Dame. Colorism, Whiteness, Sexism, Copycat and other toxic waste from these waterdown grimmtale aka fair-ytale is hard to download into my brain. Let be honest. They use Pocahontas to exploit for richness,resources and dreams. Abagond preach the truth on this topic.
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George Ryder
diatribe- a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.
now that’s a nice word to add to my vocabulary, thanks Mack!
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Here is another one I think you need in order to see the nature of those attacking you:
Sycophant
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Moanika
“Pocahontas to exploit for richness,resources and dreams.”—–exactly and now that she is no longer exploitable you hear nothing about her or her digitally remastered movies etc. Same thing with Mulan and other non-white princesses. Tiana and jasmine are following really close behind. I really think they made them to appear diverse.
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I don’t know if anyone noticed, but the Pamunkey tribe of Virginia, the tribe of Pocahontas, was the first and only tribe in Virginia (and the only tribe in the entire Chesapeake Bay region) to earn Federal recognition, and just at the beginning of this month (July 2015).
During the enforcement of Virginia’s Racial Integrity law of 1924, the main effort was to wipe their identity out, forcing them to fit into the binary racial model prevalent during Jim Crow. Since some of them were part black, the government sent regular warnings to local officials about the efforts of these n1663rs trying to pass themselves off as Indian, and then possibly attempt to mix with white people.
In recent decades much of the opposition to their recognition has come from white corporate interests (eg, MGM resorts), as well as blacks who noted their racist practices which stemmed form the Jim Crow era.
A renowned Virginia Indian tribe finally wins federal recognition
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-renowned-virginia-indian-tribe-finally-wins-federal-recognition/2015/07/02/40cc0dd4-200a-11e5-aeb9-a411a84c9d55_story.html)
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Yesterday was the 400th anniversary of Pocahontas’s death in England:
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/people/pocahontas-death-day-celebrations-england/
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/gallery_parade_marked_400_years_since_pocahontas_died_in_gravesend_1_4942237
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