Christopher Lollie (1986- ), a Black American musician, was tasered and arrested by St Paul, Minnesota police for Sitting While Black. They did that in front of his two children while he was trying to pick them up from day care. He caught some of it on video with his mobile phone.
At about 9.50am on January 31st 2014, Lollie, after working an overnight cleaning shift, sits down in what appears to be a public area.
A minute later a guard from the First National Bank Building tells Lollie it is a private “employees only” space. Lollie says he was waiting to pick up his children in about ten minutes from New Horizons, a nearby day care. The guard calls the police.
When the video starts Lollie is already walking towards the day care. A White police officer is walking alongside him. Here is some of what was said:
Officer Lori Hayne: I want to find out who you are and what was the problem back there.
Lollie: There is no problem, that’s the thing. … Why do I have to let you know who I am? Who I am isn’t the problem.
Hayne: Because that’s what police do when they get called, they identify people.
Lollie: Well, I know my rights, first off. Secondly, I don’t have to let you know who I am if I haven’t broken any laws. [explains he was waiting to pick up his children] … That’s a public area. If there’s no sign that doesn’t say, “This is a private area, you can’t sit here,” no one can tell me I can’t sit there.
Hayne: The problem was –
Lollie: The problem is I’m black. That’s the problem.
Hayne: (laughs)
Lollie: No, it really is, because I didn’t do anything wrong. .. I was sitting there by myself – by myself – not causing a problem with anyone.
Two other White officers appear, Michael Johnson and Bruce Schmidt.
Lollie: Please don’t touch me.
Schmidt: Well, you’re going to jail then. … Put your hands behind your back, otherwise this is going to get ugly.
Lollie keeps saying he did not do anything wrong. Schmidt keeps telling him to put his hands behind his back, warning that he will taser him. The screen goes black. Then you hear children.
Lollie: That’s my kids right there!
Schmidt: (screaming) PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK!!!
Lollie: Don’t choke me. I have asthma, sir.
Then the clicking noise of a taser, then Lollie crying out in pain and asking for help.
The police arrest and charge him with:
- trespassing,
- disorderly conduct and
- obstruction of the legal process.
The president of the St Paul Police Federation, Dave Titus, said of the three officers:
… you couldn’t get nicer individuals. This guy was acting like a jerk.
A friend of Lollie’s daughter:
When I saw them doing that to Allahna’s daddy, it made my heart feel so sad.
On July 31st a judge dismissed the charges after Lollie’s lawyer presented video and eyewitness accounts. The police gave back his mobile phone.
See also:
- YouTube: Black man taken to jail for sitting in public area – watch the whole video (6 minutes).
- racial profiling
- The black brute stereotype
- The police. Other cases where we have video of an unfolding arrest:
- slave patrols
- Also in Minnesota:
OK, the guy was acting reasonably to a point, and he sounds pretty bright. However, he refused to cooperate and give his name.
Apparently, he also refused to leave when told he was sitting on private property.
Sorry, but if a white person does this, he’s also getting arrested. That’s the way cops are. You call them “sir”. You answer their questions. You give them full cooperation.
There are plenty of videos of white people getting arrested (including in front of their kids) for relying on their supposed rights. You will usually get off in the trial if you have this evidence (as this guy did). But why go through all the hassle? Stop and provide full cooperation and you may avoid going to jail. That’s how things are. I don’t see strong evidence that this was racially motivated.
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“There are plenty of videos of white people getting arrested (including in front of their kids) for relying on their supposed rights.”
Beginning with the Black Codes (a legal strategy for arresting newly freed Black people on bogus charges in order to benefit Whites) there have been a long and sordid history of oppression up to and including the present. Not much has changed in the mistreatment of Black people since then.
The “benefit of the doubt” is far more often extended to White people than to Black people.
Would the guard have called the police on a White person sitting in the same spot? Would the police have hassled a White person about their identity and then tasered them for not disclosing it? Would more police have been sent if it were a White person saying that he was picking up his children from daycare? Not as likely!
Just because the police are treating White people a bit poorly nowadays does not mean that the brotherhood of cops are not still systemically racist against Black people.
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I’m glad for the father to stay alive and charge free from this ugly moment. I wonder if he could sue them. @Biff-Please watch the strawman video. If you accept officers commands. You’re fully their property by agreeing under the illegal law. Some officers would stalk or harrass people by reading their address and name. Ask their prey to become snitches for freedom. There’s videos and stories of this dirty act Please read Black Law and Black Code
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i hope he’s suing them homeless right now.
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White Americans disgracing whites yet again.
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Same ol’ same ol’. But what I find most disturbing is that there will always be a substantial minority–I hope minority–of white folks who will doggedly defend even the most egregious police injustices. Even. With. Video.
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Biff, police do not have the right to demand id unless they have reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in illegal activity. Minnesota does not have a “stop and identify” law. Lollie was arrested and tased because he irritated the two cops by standing up for his rights and not providing the shuffling deference which they expect from citizens, especially black men.
The only man I ever called “sir” or ever will is my father. Nobody else gets that deference. Providing full cooperation is problematic when the police are demanding something that under law they have no right to demand.
A right that is not exercised is a right that is lost. Perhaps you are comfortable with living in a police state where police can demand instant compliance from whatever order they issue, illegal or otherwise. But that’s not supposed to be what America is about.
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Cliven Bundy and associated friends not only refused to provide full cooperation with police they pointed guns at them and dared them to come get some. And none of them were tased or arrested. There are some lessons there.
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The cops were angry because Christopher Lollie told them “First off i know my rights,secondly,i don’t have to let you know who i am if i haven’t broken any laws” I am sure this is what set them off. They didn’t like him telling them he knew his rights. I hope he sues them to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they lose their jobs they are jerks.
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There is a double standard in this country when it comes to breaking the law. Whites can be law breakers and they don’t suffer the consequences. Example the woman who keeps stowing away on the air planes and they catch her a three times doing this and she is not sent to jail but a mentally ill black woman walking on the highway bare foot gets a savage beating by the California Highway Patrol. Everyone is not equal in the United but separated States of America in this supposedly post racial America, such a joke.
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@MB
Good luck with that.
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We are in retrograde in this country we are going backwards i would even say this is a new era of Jim Crow. I don’t think this is an exaggeration.
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@ Biff
Shady Grady really said it all to you.
Even if one does not want to see or can not see a racism aspect to this situation, it doesn’t matter. The aspect of civil rights being violated can take center stage as the issue.
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@ Mary Burrell:
The retrograde thing is happening in the UK too: the rolling back of rights and freedoms, and the creeping advance of authoritarianism. Clearly this does affect white working class people too, but any effect that gives whites trouble is amplified for POC.
Biff may be correct that a white person refusing to cower to police abuse of power may get arrested, but what he misses is that the black guy gets assaulted and tased into the bargain because the cops know there will be no consequences. Their superior officers and the courts just close ranks and brazen it out until the fuss goes away.
Anyone with the power of coercion over others will eventually abuse that power. The police are oppression waiting to happen.
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How would I have handled things differently? I wouldn’t have trespassed in an unauthorized area of a bank. I wouldn’t have argued with the security guard when he asked me to leave. I would have provided ID to the police officer when asked. I wouldn’t have walked away when the officer told me to stop. I wouldn’t have argued with the officer when he told me I was under arrest. I would have put my hands behind my back when the officer ordered me to.
If there’s an issue I let the judge handle it. I don’t argue with officers in the middle of the mall. That’s why I don’t get tased and arrested. I’m amazed at those who think they don’t have to obey an officer’s lawful commands. It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the commands or not. Comply now and let the judge decide later.
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first off glad this man is still alive, when I saw 1986 and the dash without a date after it I was relieved. I’ve never heard of this until now, this happened in January and we are just now hearing about this. The police don’t care if u know ur rights and tell them what rights u have, they can still violate those rights. He called them out and they didn’t like it.
“There is no law in Minnesota requiring an individual who is not under arrest to give a name or personal information to the police simply because they ask for it. There are 24 U.S. states in which so-called “Stop and Identify” laws are in effect”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1442060/chris-lollie-
arrest/#KBqgXso47GDPPwOx.99
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Biff,
“But why go through all the hassle? Stop and provide full cooperation and you may avoid going to jail. That’s how things are. I don’t see strong evidence that this was racially motivated.”
What’s the point of having rights if you don’t exercise them? I don’t understand how a real American can be so subservient. No American likes being questioned especially and justifiably when the authorities can’t give a valid reason. Cowering to authority is not expected of Americans…unless they are black.
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wow, some people here need police interaction counseling!!!
it is up to your local state (in the us) as to whether you are required to carry ID and the severity of the alleged ‘offense’ of which you have been accused will, in some states, eg massachusetts, generally determine if you are required to produce it.
claiming maritime law, sovereignty etc. is NOT advised, especially if you carry STATE ID because then you are US citizen and you will be treated accordingly.
Address the police as ‘officer’ this way it works for either gender, and if you are perhaps being taken in, you may wish to switch to rank as a designator.
OTHERWISE COMPLY OR THAT IS A NEW, FRESH CHARGE, FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH PEACE/POLICE OFFICER COMMANDS
do not touch the officer
keep your hands in plain view at all times
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yes i have been arrested nany many times
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@jefe: You are right about “Good luck with that” What was i thinking they never are punished or lose their jobs. Darren Wilson in Ferguson is a perfect example of not losing his job or being punished. Or the cops that killed Eric Gardner. What was i thinking?
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Those kids are cute! 🙂
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A minute later a guard from the First National Bank Building tells Lollie it is a private “employees only” space. Lollie says he was waiting to pick up his children in about ten minutes from New Horizons, a nearby day care. The guard calls the police.
Can this be clarified a bit – from this paragraph above, are we to understand that even though Lollie was asked to move, he didnt because he was waiting to pick up his children in about 10 minutes? Or did he move but just say this to explain why he was there?
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Well at least they didn’t shoot and kill him i can be glad about that.
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But isn’t it a sorry state of affairs when the most positive thing one can say about those cops is “Well at least they didn’t shoot and kill him”.
Protect and serve? I don’t think so.
The seat may have been private property, but if no one else was waiting to use it why the hell not just let the guy sit down, FFS?
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@buddhuu: Agreed, it is a sorry state indeed if that’s all we can say.
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Acting like a jerk isn’t illegal. The 2 male officers unnecessarily escalated the situation. The is no legal obligation to identify yourself without probable cause. The officers should be disciplined for their actions.
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Evidently, the “problem” can also be that you’re Chinese…
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-hit-5m-lawsuit-jaywalk-arrest-article-1.1911226
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Biff said:
Soulsearch answered:
Soulsearch, you are spot-on. Only SOME are expected to be victims.
Biff’s victim-blaming approach is one I’ve heard more times than I can count. For instance (in cases of heterosexual rape) it puts me in mind of rape apologists, anywhere in the world, who say that if a woman gets drunk (or joins the Army) and is raped during that time, then she simply failed to exercise “good judgment” and is responsible for what happened to her due to her own negligence.
Basically: give up trying to wipe out rape culture and learn to ADAPT to it instead.
That would be a bit like advocating, a century ago, for Good Negroes to exercise Good Judgment to prevent their own lynching:
“do always call whites ‘sir’ or ‘madam’”.
“don’t go where you aren’t supposed to.”
“don’t sit where you aren’t supposed to.”
“don’t answer back by speaking in sentences, or using long words.”
…because targeting black men in this way isn’t about propping-up white supremacy, but Good Behaviour. As if that really makes the difference.
US law enforcement seems violent, excessively so, and as the police acts as a repository for the dominant culture’s racial hostilities, I just don’t see merely Being Compliant is the most responsible way to protect oneself from its outrages…
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For contrast, this kid has been stopped numerous times walking around with a shotgun, same city as the mass shooting, Aurora, http://kdvr.com/2014/08/01/aurora-teen-walks-on-busy-streets-with-shotgun-videotapes-encounters-with-police/
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@Bulanik: excellent comment.
Submission is not an option unless ever more submission is one’s aspiration.
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@ Bulanik
Well said. I agree.
@ King Kat
Wow. What a difference.
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@Abagond, yes the contrast is striking but even more amazing was the comments in defense of this kid, another stark contrast to the comments I see when the subject of a police encounter is black….
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@king. so sad. @aba-chan: Can you read and post about ammosexual. m.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/23/1324015/-Something-to-make-an-ammosexual-s-head-explode
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Sitting in a nonpublic area in Minnesota vs Walking with a shotgun in Colorado provides an opportunity to discuss the difference probable cause makes.
Sitting in a non public area is criminal trespass. The guard reporting this crime gives the officers probable cause. Therefore, officers have grounds to detain him and ask for ID even though they would otherwise lack the authority to do so. Since officers have probable cause, failure to stop and provide ID is obstruction of justice granting officers grounds for arrest. Walking away and refusing to place his hands behind his back is resisting arrest justifying the use of force.
Open carry happens to be legal in Colorado. Officers are required to respond to citizen complaints. But the officers lacked probable cause that a crime had been committed. Even though Colorado is a stop & identify state it still requires probable cause for an officer to require ID. The man complies with the officers’ request to stop but declines to identify himself. Since the officers lack probable cause they have no grounds to detain him and the man is free to go. The man did not refuse an officer’s lawful commands or resist arrest. Therefore, officers had no reason to use force.
Those counseling others to know and exercise their rights should first take the time to learn the laws and what their rights are.
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@ Big Momma
When the police arrested Lollie, the sole reason they gave was his refusing to identify himself. As Shady Grady has already pointed out, Minnesota does not have a “stop and identify” law. Raw Story:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/29/minnesota-man-will-file-civil-rights-suit-against-cops-who-tased-him-for-not-identifying-himself/
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@ Ms Too Good
Lollie did not get his phone back till July 31st. He posted the video on Tuesday August 26th. As of Saturday the 30th it had made the news in Minnesota and Britain but not (yet?) the national news in the US. I was expecting Melissa Harris Perry to cover it this weekend but it seems she did not.
Something I cut from the post:
Media Guide: number of Google hits for “Christopher Lollie” on August 30th 2014 (four days after the video posted):
14 Twitter
7 Tumblr, The Independent
3 Daily Mail
2 Slate
0 Huffington Post, Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, The Grio, The Root, Daily Kos, BBC, Democracy Now, The Economist, The Guardian, RT, Xinhua, The Telegraph, Time, Daily Beast, BET, New York Daily News, News One.
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[…] Christopher Lollie (1986- ), a Black American musician, was tasered and arrested by St Paul, Minnesota police for Sitting While Black. They did that in front of his two children while he was trying to pick them up from day care. He caught some of it on video with his mobile phone.- Click through for more – […]
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[…] Source: abagond.wordpress.com […]
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“When the police arrested Lollie, the sole reason they gave was his refusing to identify himself.”
That’s because the bank declined to press charges. Still, the security guard did call the police to report a crime even if a minor one. That gave officers PROBABLE CAUSE to stop Lollie and require identification whether the bank later declined to pursue the matter or not.
I could cause police to stop and identify you in any state in the country by accusing you of a crime. Police would have probable cause to do it and you’d be obligated to comply. If my accusation was knowingly false then I’d be charged with filing a false report. But that wouldn’t lessen the probable cause under which police were acting or the lawful commands they issued to you in good faith.
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I gotta tell you–I was so relieved to read that first sentence: “Christopher Lollie IS–” After all the stories of dead black men, it’s just a relief to know that this one is still alive. Yeah, he was screwed with, but he’s alive. Side note: those are some cute kids.
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@Kiwi
Yes, it’s screwy.
I suspect that they (the bank_ did not Lollie there, but the black bank security guard had no intention of confronting him as he knew he was doing nothing wrong, so someone at the bank called the police.
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[…] Christopher Lollie (1986- ), a Black American musician, was tasered and arrested by St Paul, Minnesota police for Sitting While Black. They did that in front of his two children while he was trying to pick them up from day care. He caught some of it on video with his mobile phone.- Click through for more – […]
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LOL at the people here trying to justify his rudeness,the fact is that black people more likely then most do come of across as ‘ruder’ then other races,
A police asks you a question,the police officer was not rude-he was called ,so was doing his job,
This guy Lollie was defensive from the start causing the atmosphere to change- people need to stop excusing ‘attitude’ behavior and certain black people have a bad attitude..if an incident occurred while it was not his fault,had he responded without the front,then it may have been a different result.
Not only was Lollie uncooperative but he assumed that the issue is because hes black..
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When in doubt, blame the Negro.
Let’s not question why the police chose to approach Mr. Lollie in a confrontational manner, nor why they chose to escalate the encounter instead of using the de-escalation techniques that they’ve likely been trained with.
And let’s ignore the fact that had Mr. Lollie been a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant or something approaching that in appearance, his police encounter would likely be drastically different and far less confrontational.
But please, by all means, keep blaming the Negro for “misbehaving” in front of his betters. The SPPD and everyone who support approaching black Americans in as adversarial a manner as possible regardless of intent or action thanks you. No, really, they do.
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LOL at maxine.
This is part of a pattern of police behaviour in general and police behaviour toward POC in particular.
The guy was a policeman, not God. What the hell kind of world do you live in where a policeman (public SERVANT, employed by the taxpayers) has to be obeyed as if he had some divine right to rule law-abiding people?
Public servants have forgotten their place as well as their jobs. It’s like when that clown Bush tried to shame a journalist for forgetting to call him “Mr President”. The guy was a politician elected by people to do a job for them, not to be their damned god or master. Same thing with cops.
Tasking a guy for sitting on a seat does not protect or serve anyone. Private property my a$$. Banks and corporations also need to remember that their existence is reliant upon the good will and custom of people.
You “LOL” at people in this thread but people like you, who have bought the fallacy that public servants can walk all over you, are the funny (pathetic) ones. Mr Lollie didn’t feel like abandoning his rights and getting pushed around. Respect to him.
The cop was an a$$hole. He should have instantly identified the “situation” as a NON-situation. If anything he should have busted the idiot who called the police and charged him with wasting police time.
Calling the police because a guy sits on a seat? Seriously?
Your country is even more stupid than mine, and that takes an effort.
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“Slave patrols” sounds like so much hyperbole. Until you connect the dots.
It’s OPEN SEASON in America and the average black American is the target, black males especially, females less so. Dispensing wooden shampoos to “unruly” Negros has always been a safety valve for the lower orders and a way to keep them from getting ahead of themselves, but the real desire among the Powers That Be™ is to treat black Americans to the same sort of extinctionary courtesies that were bestowed upon native Americans.
If you can’t kill the black man, then you might as well brutalize and marginalize him so thoroughly that he’ll be too scared of his own shadow to come to his own defense or that of others. He’ll also be too scared to interact with the community at large aside from his own enclave – the ideal outcome is for blacks to quietly, fearfully and invisibly shuffle from home (preferably in the proverbial “bottoms” and slums) to workplace (preferably menial jobs) with as minimal impact on the outside environment as possible.
And even then, your overzealous white vigilante/militant/enforcer types always reserve the right to take their collective frustrations or bloodlust out on blacks as they please – just as long as it doesn’t get in the way of respectable white society.
On the other hand, the cops are becoming so comfortable with brutalizing blacks and other noted undesirables and so drunken on their own supposed superiority and immunity from punishment that they’re slowly but surely expanding their brutality towards middle class Americans. I have a feeling that the more you see middle-classers dispossessed of their former trappings and privileges due to growing economic inequality, the more of these brutality events they’ll suffer.
I’d love to say that “eventually, the cops will cross the line and be keel-hauled back the other side,” but the police seems to know how close they can edge up to that line without going over by a single fiber strand.
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@Mack Lyons: “wooden shampoos” I am just waking up this morning and had to think about that my mind is still foggy, I am thinking this means when the person the cops perceive to be the perpetrator of some crime gets hit in the head with that club or baton that the cops carry. I never heard of that phrase. But i have been enlightened.
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@Maxine
First I am sorry but you really have no idea what he was doing from the start as the video only starts when they were walking.
Secondly come access as “ruder”(FYI I don’t believe ruder is a word) and actual being rude are two different things. If a person is so filled with prejudice that they have concluded a person is “ruder” due to their color then that is a sign they should not be working in certain fields.
Thirdly Being defensive does not mean being rude and as I checked neither are against the law. I guess he is the son of Zeus that he has so much ability to change an atmosphere. Certain people have attitudes dear(it is not a race thing) and having an attitude is bot legal ground to arrest or tase. Which is why they dropped the charges.
Fourthly what front? Him letting them know he know the laws? Heck he said it quite politely as far as I am concerned because he most certainly could have actually gotten rude and called the officers out of their names and such.
Lastly why can’t he assume it was because he was black? You assumed his attitude was due to him being black?
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@Maxine: Madame, did you listen to the video? Did you really listen? Mr. Lollie is not being rude if you listen and paid attention he calmly and politely states that he knows his rights there is nothing in his voice that conveys him being confrontational. I think you need to go back and listen to the youtube.
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Where lollie messed up.
1. Not giving his id.
And that depends solely on his state laws. Some states may recognize The three levels of police encounter: (1) consensual encounters, (2) investigatory stop, and (3) formal arrest.
Let us not forget his right to remain silent.
Here is where the cops messed up.
1. They made the mistake of arresting him and not reading him his miranda.
2. They appeared to be using the arrest as a means to get him to talk or as retaliation for bot talking.
3. They tase him when he was cooperating and not being “crazed”.
4. Did not verify that the area was indeed private.
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@Maxine: While you are LOLing at the rest of the commenters defending Mr Lollie i am SMH at you for being wrongheaded.
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@Mary
I believe that even if she did she will draw the same conclusion. Her post reaks of black=rude attitude.
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@Sharina: Sadly i think you are right.
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Kiwi and jefe
That is an interesting questions and point. Why did they decide not to press charges? And what in the heck was the point in calling the police to begin with if they were not going to follow through with it?
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@Sharina,
They wanted him to leave, but they didn’t want to make him do it. Easier to call the police.
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I honestly don’t know what to say or add to this. This kind of s*** continues without any signs of slowing down. It’s hard to think that just being compliant will make the situation any less damaging. Lollie was bring treated as a suspect, and if he cooperated, he will still likely be scarred for being treated like he didn’t belong in a particular area simply because he wasn’t “blessed” with European features.
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Finally watched the video. Yeah, I don’t see him acting rude at all.
He was not even resisting arrest as he was not being arrested. Then he was arrested for not committing any crime.
Some serious action needs to be taken here.
All we can say is, social media actually might help reverse today’s trend (assuming that it is not policed, like in many countries, where that video would have been removed in minutes and he would have been arrested for posting the video.)
I wonder what would have happened had the police worn cameras and mic.
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I find it interesting how certain people think that if Lollie had behaved better the whole thing could have been avoided.
Lollie knew his rights. He was very careful to remain calm, not to raise his voice or get violent. Legally he did nothing wrong. Even the judge agreed with that.
It was the police, if you notice, who are screaming and getting violent, they are the ones who are misbehaving and need to know the laws of their state.
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He even calls on of the arresting officers “brother” and the officer replies “I am not your brother” so where is this Maxine commenter interpreting this as being rude?
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so what action is taken against them?
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@ Jefe
Lollie is taking them to court:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/29/minnesota-man-will-file-civil-rights-suit-against-cops-who-tased-him-for-not-identifying-himself/
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Another Black man, innocent of any crime, attacked unjustifiably by the pigs. And whites are chomping at the bit to justify their obvious hatred of us.
Again, we need to start arming ourselves and responding accordingly to these terrorists or it will never stop.
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I fixed it for you…
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD61YFxUga4)
Result = withdrawal of police without violence.
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That article does not make it sound hopeful, given the Police chief’s refusal to discipline any of the officers.
The video showed no indication that that was about to happen. How can the Police Chief defend that statement with a straight face?
What a waste of taxpayers’ money to take this to court and have a judge drop the charges. If Mayor Coleman showed leadership, he would rebuke the police dept for wasting the city’s money.
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@jefe: Good luck with that.
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@Average Bee,
Sorry, I cannot believe that increasing arms will make people feel more safe. We would see even more brutality from the police.
I enjoy living in a society where neither private citizens nor the police carry guns.
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@MB,
I’m not holding my breath.
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Jefe said:
Finally watched the video. Yeah, I don’t see him acting rude at all.
I had no intention of watching the video but did do so after reading Mary Burrell’s exchange with this Maxine person. Lollie is a perfect example of model behavior in that video. His disbelief and reaction to the violation of being detained and arrested is all the more difficult to witness.
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Maxine said:Not only was Lollie uncooperative but he assumed that the issue is because hes black..
No point in bullshitting around when you’re right in the thick of something. Lollie was keeping his wits about him and exposing the cops as his camera recorded, smart man, decent man.
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Quite. Mr. Lollie was somewhere he didn’t belong – he just didn’t know it at that point.
Now he knows.
And the chances of him lingering in said area ever again? Nil. If he has to move through there at all, he’ll do so as quickly and as invisibly as possible. Which was the whole point of this police encounter.
Other blacks have gotten the message, too: “don’t linger here. Keep it moving unless you want problems.” Of course, if it was possible to legally re-segregate those areas without running afoul of those pesky civil rights laws, they would be. I wouldn’t be surprised.
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I see it like getting bullied. When someone’s in your face without a good reason, defending yourself seems like a sensible solution. So, it’s hard to just be cooperative to someone who’s treating you like an animal. It’s like telling a kid who’s being bullied to not only do nothing, but if that bully orders you to do something, do it and everything will be alright. Ummm, no! No responsible adult would ever tell a child that, cause that would just enable the bully to continue. So, why tell black people who’s been bullied since the European invasions to just be docile when doing so only permits them to continue their bullsh**ery? I’m just saying.
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There are people who think they are “decent” and “moral” who do just that.
It doesn’t have to be a “kid” who is on the receiving end of that kind of bullsh!t.
They are called Enablers.
In the case of Mr Lollie, it’s the institutional sort.
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The skyway system in the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro creates an interesting perspective on class and race. Traditionally public spaces in “downtown” or “city center” areas of any metro are the quintessential public spaces. However, traditionally these were truly public spaces: streets, sidewalks, etc., owned by the government and maintained for use by all. The skyways create a second tier of quasi-public space, sort of akin to a shopping mall but even less public in terms of the legal status. The skyways themselves — the actual bridges across streets, are privately owned by one or both of the building owners they connect to. They are allowed to cross the street by easement granted by the city, but the easement does not confer the same “open to the public” rights that inure to the streets and sidewalks below. On either end of the skyway is a privately owned building. In most buildings, the second floor has some sort of visual hallway or path of travel built for users of skyways. However, this is all purely private property. Many building owners lock their skyway doors in the evening, or on weekends, or such. The public has no right to pass through these buildings. They pass solely on the invitation and at the pleasure of the building owner.
Further, because the only way to either end of the actual skyway bridge is private, the skyway itself is private.
That legal status is not particularly well understood by the public at large, because in the winter the skyway system becomes a de facto public sidewalk network. As a result, people tend to assume that they can linger in the skyways in the same way they could a public sidewalk. This is not true. As noted, virtually every inch of the system is private property. Most building owners on the skyway system employ security guards to monitor the skyways and make sure people don’t linger there. They are to pass through on the way to somewhere else.
The part of the Lollie case we don’t yet know from the media is the exchange Lollie had with the security guard when the guard requested him to move along. It was incumbent on Lollie at that point to say something like “Sorry, I didn’t realize this was private, I’ll move on.” Interpolating from what we have seen in the press so far, it sounds perhaps like Lollie might have instead given a belligerent response along the lines of “there are no signs saying this is a private area” — which would be legally irrelevant given the legal structure of the skyway system — and otherwise indicated that he intended to wait there until he could see his kids.
By the way, he was not waiting to pick up his kids from day care. It was early morning. His kids were due to be dropped off at daycare by their mother, who had custody of them and from whom Lollie was estranged. He has been vague in the press about why he was there at that time, but it appears he was there to in some way confront the mother as she dropped off the kids, or make sure she did drop them off, or somehow have some sort of interaction along those lines.
Security guards are trained to call police when an individual refuses to leave private property after being requested to do so. As we know, one of the primary roles of police is to protect property and guard capital.
The issue with the Lollie case is not the fact that a guard asked him to move and called the cops. The issue is one of basic human decency, something that cops generally afford more generously to white upper middle class individuals (though they do not always do so even with those people) than black self-employed musicians with slightly smart mouths. The cops in the Lollie case could easily have diffused the situation with a bit of good humor and basic decency, but they chose instead to immediately escalate and arrest. It’s a subtle issue but one that is part and parcel of what is often referred to as “white privilege” — here, the likelihood of a bit of decency from the cops.
That said, Lollie himself is not entirely blameless here. I’ve seen and heard his clip. He was being a smart ass to the cops. A superficially polite smart-ass, but a smart-ass nonetheless.
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Blanc2 — just a question:
In your opinon, what exactly was “smart-assy” about Mr Lollie’s response?
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Got to protect that private property. Can’t have people sitting on seats that don’t belong to them. Allow that and the whole system will go to hell.
Can’t have people being smart-assed to the police. I mean, fail to show proper deference to public SERVANTS and the whole place would descend into riot and chaos.
Got to have those strict cops. Without them, as we all know, there is not a single one of us who could go about his/her daily routine without murdering or raping someone.
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You said it, buddhuu…
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Buddhuu: I concur with the sentiment of your message. People who know me know that I am deeply angry at law enforcement. Way too long of a subject to get into for me, but among other things I am galled by they way law enforcement uses the “Thin Blue Line” conceit to disguise the fact that, in reality, their primary role is to serve as tax-subsidized security guards for the assets owned by capital.
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?
Excuse me, Blanc2, but I asked a question, didn’t I.
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Blanc2 said:
Indeed. I believe that to be fact.
Given that, I fail to appreciate why a police officer, apparently acting in the role we have just described, should be deserving of anything but Mr Lollie’s contempt. Any diversion of attention away from police coercion and abuse onto the perfectly reasonable conduct of the citizen is, IMO, pointless and inappropriate.
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This is not the first time you’ve dismissed my addressed comments to you.
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^^ that comments was intended for Blanc2.
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he wasn’t on private property.
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I also would like to at which point Lollie became smart-assy (for my own edification).
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Perhaps, to some, a POC declining to be immediately and unconditionally submissive and compliant is considered “smart-ass”.
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I alway thought that it was the police that were supposed to be “above reproach” not the people they serve.
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I think the relationship with the police and black communities is a little more complex than guarding capital assets…there is no doubt the police force has racist individuals , and many points made on here are true , and they represent more often than not , the institucional society outlook on black culture and communities…this is true….I always looked on the police as the toughest gang…with the authorities backing them up
But , I have seen another side and reality to this also , and , it speaks of an uneasy reality…I have seen this in Brazil, a place where police represion of the black brown underclass is worse than the USA, São Paulo police kill more people than all USA police put together…all the same racial dynamics are in place….
But , several decades ago , there was a police strike in Recife , and in the poor black and brown neighborhoods, the dead bodies started piling up….then , just this year, the same thing happened again….and bodies started piling up…this is in no way implicating that black people are more violent, that isnt my point, which has much more to do with boné curanchins poverty..the point is , black people need police protection also , and want it …what they dont want is this blatent cultural racism that stigmatises them , and subjects them to racist bullies , who take it out on people not even commiting crimes
One of the witnesses in Ferguson said before the incident , she liked having a police presence , but after seeing the shooting, she felt uneasy…
Its the racism from the individual up to the institucional cultural prejudice against black people that has to be scrutinised…its more complex than police guarding capital assets…black people want police presence and protection also, they dont want this cultural stigmatation and blatent racism
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More police bullsh!t:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/02/3477768/police-arrest-young-black-politician-at-moral-mondays-rally/?elq=~~eloqua..type–emailfield..syntax–recipientid~~&elqCampaignId=~~eloqua..type–campaign..campaignid–0..fieldname–id~~
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This is digusting! I don’t understand whether this is becoming more frequent in the US or if it’s just being highlighted more, and if it is, why? The individuals making excuses for these rude, aggressive police officers are the very reason why these things happen, because you support the idea that it’s okay.
Maxine, maybe you’ll be treated this way because you’re Black, and if that day comes I hope you’ll be quick to blame yourself no matter what.
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And again:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/04/nyc-cops-arrest-human-rights-lawyer-waiting-outside-restaurant-while-her-kids-used-restroom/
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For what it’s worth, I just want to let you know that the ‘former officer’ Bruce Schmidt (mentioned above, with photo), who was eventually forced to leave the police force (and become a lowly security guard) due to “too many complaints against him” (by his own account) died a couple of days ago of lung cancer after months of unsuccessful treatment. I don’t think he ever learned the lesson that what he was doing while he was a cop was wrong, and he bragged about his ‘methods of enforcement’…..saying “When you’re a cop and you beat somebody up, YOU get into trouble” and he seemed incredulous as he told that story to us and others here in a seniors housing complex. He thought he was a real tough guy, but he was nothing but a jerk. Hopefully, karma teaches him a good lesson.
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Damn! I just realized that this HAS to be a completely different “Bruce Schmidt”, as this incident detailed above happened in 2014, I now note, belatedly…… My bad and my sincere apologies!! The photo really did look like him, though, but the timeline is definitely all wrong.
The Schmidt i was referring to had long since left the police force (for security work and then retirement) when I encountered the Bruce Schmidt I’M referring to in mid-2012.
Again, my apologies……
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