DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans

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DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans

Sat Aug 2nd 2014 by abagond

ethnic-africa

Note: I already did a post on DNA ancestry tests. This one looks at them as applied to Blacks in the US.

Unlike other Americans, Blacks had their ethnic identity and history taken from them. Even Native Americans know which tribes they come from. DNA tests can help to recover some of that missing information.

There are two kinds of tests:

admixture tests and
lineage tests.

Admixture tests tell you how much of your DNA comes from different parts of the world. For Black Americans it generally comes out something like this:

77% Black Africa
21% White Eurasia
2% Native America

That is the average according to National Geographic.

Examples:

Don Cheadle: 81% Black, 19% White, 0% Native

Tina Turner: 66% Black, 33% White, 1% Native

Condoleezza Rice: 51% Black, 40% White, 0% Native, 9% Asian

Remarks:

Asian: Sometimes you will see Asian thrown in, like with Condoleezza Rice. At least some of that comes from the late 1800s when the law made it hard for Asian men to marry Asian or White.
Native: This number is the least trustworthy since there are few “pure” Native Americans left against which to compare DNA. On the other hand, most of the straighter black hair that Blacks think comes from Native Americans, in fact comes from Whites!
White: Mostly comes from White men during slave times, which mostly means rape.
Black: This can be further broken down by country. For example, for Vanessa Williams:
- 23% Ghana
- 15% Cameroon/Congo
- 7% Togo
- 6% Benin
- 5% Senegal
In most cases “Black” breaks down just like that, into a mishmash of countries along the Atlantic coast of Africa, from Senegal to Angola. Black Americans are way more of a melting pot than Whites.

% Black African DNA according to tests:

0% Jessica Alba

4% George Lopez

11% Mark Shriver, geneticist

14% Craig Cobb, white supremacist

16% James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA

17% Bliss Broyard, daughter of Anatole Broyard (see below)

19% Ildi Silva, Brazilian actress

31% Rashida Jones, daughter of Quincy Jones (see below)

34% Anatole Broyard, New York Times writer who passed for White

50% Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

51% Condoleezza Rice

56% Vanessa Williams

61% Quincy Jones

tom-joyner
62% Tom Joyner

66% Tina Turner

71% Snoop Dogg

75% Charles Barkley

77% Maya Angelou

80% Chris Rock

81% Don Cheadle

83% Chris Tucker

83% Morgan Freeman

83% Jackie Joyner-Kersee

84% Mae Jemison

89% Oprah Winfrey

92% Whoopi Goldberg

political_names

Lineage tests are the other kind of test. They can pinpoint which country and ethnic group (“tribe”) that your maternal or paternal ancestor came from:

Senegal:
- Mandinka: Jackie Joyner-Kersee
Guinea-Bissau:
- Pepel and Bayote: Whoopi Goldberg
- Jola: Q-Tip
- Balanta: Tom Joyner
Sierra Leone:
- Mende: Questlove, John Lewis, Cory Booker, Maya Angelou
Liberia:
- Kpelle: Oprah Winfrey
Niger:
- Songhai or Tuareg: Morgan Freeman
Nigeria:
- Hausa: T.D. Jakes, Anatole Broyard
- Yoruba: Wyatt Cenac
Cameroon:
- Tikar: Quincy Jones, Sheryl Lee Ralph, Condoleezza Rice
- Bamileke: Jessica Williams
- Uldeme: Chris Rock
Gabon:
- Kota and Shake: Branford Marsalis
- Benga: Samuel L. Jackson
Angola
- Mbundu: Chris Tucker

So, for example, in the case of Oprah, her maternal ancestor, or mother’s mother’s mother’s etc mother, came from the Kpelle people of Liberia.

Some of the above are paternal ancestors. About 30% of the time the paternal line goes to Europe, but sometimes it gives a better match than the maternal line.

Thanks to commenter Peanut for suggesting this post.

– Abagond, 2014, 2016.

Update (January 9th 2017): Looking up the numbers at National Geographic now, their groupings and numbers are considerably different: 92% African and 7% European for Blacks in the south-western US. More.

Source: Mainly Henry Louis Gates, Jr., especially “In Search of Our Roots” (2009).

See also:

553

Posted in stuff | 157 Comments

157 Responses

on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 13:52:08 leigh204

I remember that Craig Cobb fellow. He insisted he was as WHITE as the driven snow, but a DNA test proved him wrong. And I loved how the lovely Trisha Goddard tried to fist bump him. Oh, that was amusing to watch. 🙂

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77XarnDq_zY)

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 14:07:05 jefe

I read that Mae Jemison tested to be 13% East Asian, meaning she probably had a Chinese great-grandfather.

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 14:25:59 v8driver

i’m curious to take this type of test!

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 16:05:31 camaal365

I’d love to take this! Is this an expensive test?

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 16:52:37 jefe

@Abagond, I know you got some of the following from what I said previously:

In the late 1800s many Asian men married Black or Mexican women: the law made it hard for them to marry Asian or White.

But I think it might be a bit misleading, i.e.,

* Yes, some Asian men married blacks in the late 19th century /early 20th century, esp. in parts of the Deep South. However, we cannot be sure that this was how most of the Asian DNA entered the African-American population (I would like to find out though).

* Some of the Asian DNA contribution likely occurred outside of marriage, e.g., common law relationships, or even casual relationships, and not all of it was necessarily in the Deep South (ie, also in the West, maybe NY or DC or Detroit too).

* Some did marry Mexicans, but initially they were classified as “white” (Some states did change that later in order to control white-Mexican marriage). However, I am not sure how that ties in with how some black Americans may have Asian ancestry.

* It was harder for Asian men to marry whites in those states with anti-miscegenation laws, like California, Virginia, Mississippi, etc. But some Asian men did marry white women legally in places like New York and Chicago.

* When Loewen researched Mississippi Chinese, he did find that some Chinese men had married Native Americans (Choctaw), Mexican-Americans, and some also had common law relationships with white women.

* pre-WWII, the Asian DNA contribution likely came mostly from males, due to the high gender imbalance at that time. I heard of some Filipino men having relationships with black women also. Post WWII, the Asian DNA contribution is probably more likely from females, beginning with the War Brides. The latter is probably recent enough for the descendants to know about it. The former will probably remain a mystery until we do more research.
(This means that it might pop up as direct lineage on the male Y-haplogroup side).

*post WWII, some of it also came from Latin American and West Indian immigrants, e.g., from Jamaica, Trinidad, Cuba.

* In a few cases, south Asians got reclassified as black.

–> it is hard to say exactly how the Asian DNA entered the black American population, but we can confirm how some of it did (e.g., in the late 19th century deep South). Maybe after more and more people do their DNA testing, we might uncover more.

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 17:59:51 sondis

I actually purchased a Y-DNA and mtDNA kit back in 2010 from ancestry.com.

I wanted to know what percentage of African,European and if any other ethnicity i could be.

I never got around to actually getting the results of the 2 tests, crunched and analyzed. This post has sparked my interest into finishing the analysis.

I logged into my account on ancestry.com and downloaded the results of the two tests, now i need to wait until Monday to call them, so i can ask how to crunch the numbers, manually. @ : o O ) >

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 18:46:38 redpaperlantern

This might make it to the comments section, or maybe not, but I figured that it was worth a try. The testing is limited, at best. Start at about 7:00 into the video linked below, and pay special attention to what the bm geneticist says from 9:19-9:32 It features a bm geneticist explaining that there are too many genetic contributors to our DNA to say conclusively what blacks in america are, or aren’t. It is a smidgen. less than !%.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rebuilding-the-family-tree/

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 18:50:03 redpaperlantern

I would suggest watching the whole clip. It is eye-opening.

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 19:07:23 sondis

redpaperlantern:

“I would suggest watching the whole clip. It is eye-opening.”

Thanks for the link. will give it a watch.

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 20:19:46 Legion

Thanks for the link RPL.

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 21:14:26 KingoftheTeddybears

Well I am from the Caribbean and I am of full African ancestry……….

LikeLiked by 1 person
on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 21:19:21 1tawnystranger

for a while i’ve been thinking my ancestry is mostly ghanaian. for some reason i never realised dna tests could break it down by ethnicity. i’m definitely interested in checking it out. how much are these tests?

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on Sun Aug 3rd 2014 at 22:52:29 Pay It Forward

[Abagond, I think there’s been a mix up with regards to the pic for Anatole Broyard. That person in the posted pic doesn’t look anything like Mr. Broyard.]

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 00:50:14 abagond

@ Pay It Forward

You are right. Thanks for the correction.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 00:59:47 The Pragmatist

@Abagond

I’m sure you’re smart enough to find adjectives to describe different hair textures. Quotation marks don’t disqualify the mental brainwashing. Let the term die please

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 01:01:15 Michael L. Cooper

My wife and I took an ancestral DNA test in 2006. Interestingly, her African roots trace back to Nigeria (Igbo people). My African roots trace back to Gambia (the Mandinka – a Mande people). We were both happy to know the results of our West African ancestry. It’s imperative that all descendants of kidnapped Africans know their African ancestry.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 01:04:49 gro jo

Pay It Forward, I was about to make the same comment, this guy looks nothing like the picture shown in the post on Broyard. “92% Whoopi Goldberg”, ok where’s the picture for 100%Mr. or Ms. X?

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 01:12:46 The Pragmatist

I don’t trust some of these numbers. Jessica Alba, Snoop Dogg, Chrid Cobb, and George Lopez are all results reputed from talk shows. There is a video on YouTube of Kim Kardashian testing 100% Armenian on a talk show. However, her mother, Kris Jenner, isn’t Armenian. I don’t believe for one minute that these talk shows are above making up numbers for ratings.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 02:04:09 abagond

@ Jefe

I changed the wording to: “At least some of that comes from the late 1800s when the law made it hard for Asian men to marry Asian or White.” People know about war brides since that is pretty recent, whereas I doubt most know about the other bit. I just wanted to throw it out there. Otherwise the temptation is to discount the Asian number as some kind of testing fluke, as I did in another post.

@ The Pragmatist

Got rid of the need for quote marks. Good point.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 02:12:59 abagond

@ The Pragmatist

I trust the numbers I gave from the George Lopez show (Lopez, Alba, Dogg and Barkley). For example, Lopez says that his own test showed he is 4% Black. That seems kind of surprising, but in fact that is pretty common for Mexican Americans according to National Geographic. I agree, though, that the Kardashian thing did seem fake.

The Watson number seems to be legit. Possibly the Cobb number is some kind of publicity stunt.

The Silva number comes from the BBC. The rest come from Henry Louis Gates.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 03:28:24 Anonymike

People lay their own cultural and political fixations on top of this issues too, often against the weight of known reality. Recently, a friend with an Italian father and English mother descended from early American stock told me his brother reported to him that he had taken the ancestral DNA test and found out they were 0.7 percent of Black African descent. This, the brother told my friend, meant that somewhere back in their mother’s family tree there was a Black African, according to the brother sometime in the early to mid 1700s.

I told my friend I would look into the issue. What I knew already is that historic Italians in the aggregate have some small percentage of Black African ancestry, from individual to individual. The number apparently varyies from maybe half a percent to two percent. I told him that this made it unlikely that his mother was the source of their black ancestry, although many whites descended from so-called “Old American Stock” do have a black ancestor. For all I know, it might even be determinable who that person was in some cases.

This story shocks me personally, for one thing because his brother is a lawyer working in a corporate capacity and ought to be able to work things out a little better than that. The second and more important thing is that his brother has some high connections in the Democratic Party, and that makes me think he was emoting on cue on behalf of the idea he wanted to believe, without looking at the facts.

Any thoughts?

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 04:30:08 TeddyBearChubs

@KingOfTeddyBears

You say that like it’s a bad thing from the “……..” part

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 06:10:51 grin and bear it

23andme does testing for about $100.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 06:37:15 jefe

I remember when I was in High School, I was deeply interested in the subject of the ancestry of Americans, and that was way before they had DNA testing. So I went to the library, both the school library and the county library and even went downtown to the DC public library to read up on it. It was then that I learned that African and European ancestry was well represented on both sides of the black / white divide, and both sides have some Native American as well.

I found one book published in the 1970s that talked about this mixture for blacks, and about how some blacks elected to pass for white and gave hundreds of examples of famous families.

The author found out that the critical proportion of black African ancestry was about 3/8. More than that, and most could not pass for white, esp. those that were the offspring of someone more than 7/8 black and a white person. Occasionally, she found after 3-4 generations of intermarriage, occasionally a person that could or tried to pass for white did occur and still be about 50% African, but it was rare.

But dropping to just 3/8, and she found it to be quite common. Almost half could pass as something besides black.

Less than 3/8, and many did pass for white, or at least as something not black. If less than 1/4, then most could pass for non-black if they chose to.

But due to a century of post-reconstruction anti-miscegenation laws, there were very few people in the, say, 20-35% range. There were 2 modes – one at about 80% black African and another one at about 10% black African (who were passing as white). The 20-35% range had flattened out as they got pushed either into the white side or the black side of the spectrum (that obviously was a very socially uncomfortable location to be in).

Since the 1970s, this gap has obviously been filling in. The modes are probably less pronounced.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 07:01:20 jefe

Lopez says that his own test showed he is 4% Black. That seems kind of surprising, but in fact that is pretty common for Mexican Americans according to National Geographic.

Yes, we should expect a fair amount of both African and Asian (esp. Chinese & Filipino) ancestry to be spread throughout the Mexican population, esp. since some of it dates back to the 16th and 17th centuries. Veracruz was the main center for the African – American – European triangular trade, and many Africans entered there. Acapulco was the main center for the transpacific trade, and many Asians entered there and also traveled to Veracruz.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 08:55:32 jefe

Does anyone know the results of Michelle Obama’s DNA testing?

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 09:07:44 The Pragmatist

Yea, another Henry Louis Gates doc showed Eva Longoria to be 3% African. What surprised me about her test was that she was 70% European and only 27% Native American! That shifted my whole view on race. I could nv imagine calling someone 70% African anything, but black. So does this mean Eva Longoria is white?

Since then, I have been putting a lot of light skin Hispanics in the off-white category

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 09:47:06 Kwamla

I wonder did anyone even bother to view the 60 mins documentary (link provided by Sondis) about the supposed science of all this DNA testing?

Its based on 1% of DNA and results tend to vary among the different agencies conducting the tests? So how reliable or scientific is this?

Conducting your own historical research through archives would just, if not even more, accurate and reliable.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:16:03 DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans | Mixed ...

[…] Note: I already did a post on DNA ancestry tests. This one looks at them as applied to Blacks in the US. Unlike other Americans, Blacks had their ethnic identity and history taken from them. Even N… […]

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:16:08 DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans | Mixed American Life

[…] Source: abagond.wordpress.com […]

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 12:16:19 Brothawolf

Very interesting.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 13:11:23 Bulanik

I wonder about these tests not only from the accuracy PoV.

DNA ancestry testing is a business designed for profit accretion.

How many of these companies exist, and how much are they worth?
The one called ancestry.com is worth about $1.6 BILLION on the market.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/22/net-us-ancestrydotcom-offer-idUSBRE89L0H620121022

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 13:55:44 Origin

@Bulanik

Me too.

There is also the whole problem of how to interpret the data. Suppose I’m 15% white and someone else is 16% white. What does that even mean? What is the basis by which a 1% difference would be determined or interpreted. Would it just be a side-effect of the statistical approach used?

I found this intriguing the first time I learned of it but I eventually lost interest.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 14:54:29 DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans | Race &...

[…] Note: I already did a post on DNA ancestry tests. This one looks at them as applied to Blacks in the US. Unlike other Americans, Blacks had their ethnic identity and history taken from them. Even N… […]

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 15:01:02 DNA ancestry tests and Black Americans | Monique Charles

[…] Source: abagond.wordpress.com […]

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 15:12:53 Solesearch

After doing a little bit of research on this a while back, I concluded it was mostly bs.

I tried tracing my ancestry through census, marriage, and draft records but didn’t get very far before the trail ended. One thing I noticed was that ppl who were referred to as mulatto in one record would be called negro in another.

Also it made it even more apparent to me that the absentee father issue is nothing new. At least it isn’t in my family.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 19:41:38 Anthony P

Does anyone know of any U.S. residents (except for those in the state of Maryland) who are full West African and have four grandparents from one of these 8 West African countries: Benin, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Mali, Senegal, or Togo?

If so, please bring 23andme’s free African Ancestry Project to their attention. https://www.23andme.com/cohort/africanancestry/

They are trying to do the same for people of African descent that they did with people of European descent.

23andme is giving free kits to U.S. residents with four grandparents from one of those 8 West African countries to help have ancestry/health results more relevant and accurate for people of African descent, because the West African database currently is underrepresented.

This will also help people of African descent possibly discover African relatives, just as people of European descent are able to discover European relatives.

Please bring this project to the attention of possible candidates. Spread word to African Student Associations, churches, any possible candidates on social media such as Facebook, etc.

Candidates cannot sign up for the project if they have not heard of it. With a little help, we can spread word and get some candidates to sign up.

https://www.23andme.com/cohort/africanancestry/

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 21:05:49 Pay It Forward

By the time of the 1930 US Census individuals of visible African or partial African descent were labeled “Negro”. By tracing one branch of my mother’s maternal lineage, I saw the whole family go from Mulatto in 1880 to Colored in 1900/1910, and to Negro in 1930.

From what I recall of my research into my own genealogy, the 1880 US Census made use of the term “Black” or “B”, rather than “Negro”, for those individuals who (at the very least) appeared to be of full African descent.

The DNA results from my autosomal (admixture) test unveiled certain ancestries that were sort of unexpected (e.g. East Asian, SE Asian, North Asian, Eastern European & South American indigenous to be exact). Also my African ancestry stems not from West Africa alone but from all directions on the continent: north, south, east and west.

Regarding research strictly through records: as a descendants of slaves, I doubt that I would have uncovered these ancestries through archived historical research. There simply are too many roadblocks and dead ends. Absentee fathers and the lack of information regarding a maiden name for married women are just two of the roadblocks in my own research.

In having my autosomal (admixture) DNA tested I have, however, been able to communicate with one DNA cousin (I have more than a thousand by last count, and that number accounts only for users of that particular website) who has passed along some of that person’s family information regarding the name and state of residence for a slaveholder of some of that person’s, and possibly my own, ancestors.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 21:51:19 resw77

@Bulanik

“I wonder about these tests not only from the accuracy PoV. DNA ancestry testing is a business designed for profit accretion.”

You raise a good point.

If you recall, a few years back, a Swiss company named iGENEA said King Tut was related to a lot of Western Europeans. Of course the lead geneticist who collected the data, Carsten Pusch, refuted iGENEA’s claims. He said his team didn’t even publish enough data for iGENEA to draw its conclusions and suggested that iGENEA’s claims were just a marketing ploy to sell dna test kits.

I doubt this %white or % black dna nonsense for a different reason: because white and black are not scientific terms. Plus, many European genetic markers are also found in remote African communities, that have not mixed with foreigners. For example, the haplogroup R1b that iGENEA wrongly claimed King Tut shared with Europeans, is found in a Cameroonian ethnicity at a higher rate than it’s found in Europeans.

So the point I’m making is that IF I were an African American with R1b, it is likely that these dna test companies would label my R1b as “white dna,” when it could be related to any Cameroonian ancestry.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 22:37:22 Anthony P

Folks, I highly doubt Condoleeza Rice has any Asian ancestry, unlike Mae Jemmison. Condoleeza Rice did 23andme when she was on 2012’s Finding Your Roots. 23andme at the time only had just one reference population in the African database, Yoruba.
People of the African diaspora are descended from multiple parts of West Africa, and Africa has the greatest genetic diversity.

So because of that, 23andme’s algorithm at the time could not read all of the blended West African as what it is, so it listed a single digit percentage as “Asian”

Just about all African Americans who did 23andme at that time got that kind of result, some “3%” others “5%” or “6%”

In December 2012 and November 2013, when 23andme updated their tests, they added just a few West African references to Yoruba. The result was that for most African Americans and others West African diaspora descendants, the
“Asian” results dropped all the way to 1% or less, and it became “Native American” and “East Asian”, then later “Native American” and “Southeast Asian”.

Condoleeza Rice would not have “9% Asian” if someone checked back with her today about her 23andme results.

If word can be spread about 23andme’s free African Ancestry Project to get more West Africans to contribute, the results for people of African descent will be more accurate.

https://www.23andme.com/cohort/africanancestry/
We may also find African relatives just as those of European descent are able to find European relatives.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 22:41:57 Sharina

Anthony P

Thank you for providing that link. I want to do one, but I am not sure what company to consider.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 22:56:16 Pay It Forward

I downloaded my raw DNA data to gedmatch.com, which offers a variety of DNA ‘calculators’. It was through use of SEVERAL of these calculators that the various components of my genetic heritage cropped up. The results for National Geographics and 23andMe autosomal tests are to barebones for my taste.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 22:58:01 Anthony P

You’re welcome. And if you know anyone who lives in the U.S. who has four grandparents from one of those 8 countries, please let them know.

They have to have four grandparents from the same country, one of the 8 listed.

And remember, the genetic relative feature is also important, probably more so than the ethnic predictions.

Both the ethnic predictions and the genetic relatives will be better for blacks if enough African Ancestry Project candidates hear of the free tests, and are kind enough to use them.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:07:32 Anthony P

I fully believe Mae Jemmison is actually part Asian, but I doubt Condoleeza Rice, especially since the test she took, 23andme, was terrible for blacks because it had a very inadequate database, their database is much better now, but still needs much more improvement.

Mae Jemmison did the now outdated Ancestry BY DNA 2.5, which is not to be confused with Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:25:43 sharina

Pay it forward

Thank you for your insight. This is pretty new to me and I am just lost on where to start or if it is worth it.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:29:42 Anthony P

You can try to do both Ancestry.com’s Ancestry DNA and 23andme. If you are African American then Ancestry.com is currently the only one with a country breakdown, though it could use improvement.

And again, if more West Africans who are candidates for 23andme know about the free project and sign for it then 23andme will have a West African breakdown even better.

Doing both companies if possible is good because of the relatives. There are some people who have only done one company and not the other, so relatives on one company won’t be seen unless you do both.

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:33:40 Anthony P

Also, both companies will be at the top of genetic genealogy because Ancestry.com is Ancestry.com while 23andme is associated with Google. So both those companies will have the most money and resources to be able to get more updates such as more references for their databases (except for U.S. Native Americans, since they refuse to test).

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:33:56 Pay It Forward

You’re welcome, Sharina 🙂

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on Mon Aug 4th 2014 at 23:55:19 Pay It Forward

Ugh, the typos!

Abagond, please sir delete the entire text in my comment addressed just upthread to resw77, and replace it with the following:

resw77 writes: “I doubt this %white or % black dna nonsense for a different reason: because white and black are not scientific terms. Plus, many European genetic markers are also found in remote African communities, that have not mixed with foreigners. For example, the haplogroup R1b that iGENEA wrongly claimed King Tut shared with Europeans, is found in a Cameroonian ethnicity at a higher rate than it’s found in Europeans.”
_ _ _

Haplogroup R1b relates to Y-DNA. Neither it nor mtDNA can show or prove the percentages for any individual’s racial makeup. It shows deep origins / ancestry– a male’s father’s father, et cetera, going back thousands of years, with a few genetic mutations occuring along the way.

For admixture results, an autosomal (“admixture”) test is required –the result of which is displayed in terms of geographical regions, and not races.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 00:08:54 Mary Burrell

I don’t trust the accuracy of this. Nevertheless it’s interesting.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 01:33:24 abagond

@ Pay It Forward

Deleted.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 02:26:20 lgodfrey

The process is very intriguing. I took the Ancestry DNA test and discovered my breakdown. My first cousin also took the test before me, and half of our results were very similar. The test was able to link us as first cousins at a 99% confidence level. His father is my mother’s brother. Ancestry had no familial information on me at the time. The match was strictly done through testing our DNA. I was also matched to an unknown third cousin, and after communicating with one another, we found that my great great grandmother was her great grandmother’s sister. I currently have approximately 67 pages of third, fourth, and distant cousins. It is a truly fascinating process. I love the breakdown of the different countries as well.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 02:51:15 $0.02

Let’s not forget there are African tribes with slanted eyes, the Khoi is one example I can think of. I wonder if there are others, I chose to claim them as opposed to questioning if I have Asian lineage. It’s a touchy topic when discussing “features” and Blackness.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 02:51:35 King

nobody will say how much it costs 😦

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 03:35:41 Pay It Forward

King, for the website 23andMe, a kit as of January 2013 (when I purchased mine) was $99, and the test included a health profile option (an option which may no longer exist).

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 03:41:03 Pay It Forward

I just checked the cost at 23andMe. It is still $99 per kit, but the health report option is no longer available.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 03:42:45 Pay It Forward

Thank you, Abagond.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 03:49:25 resw77

@Pay It Forward

“Haplogroup R1b relates to Y-DNA. Neither it nor mtDNA can show or prove the percentages for any individual’s racial makeup. ”

That’s actually the point I’m trying to make. And you do realise that Ancestry.com et al also test Y-DNA and then make claims about racial percentages.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 03:59:58 Anthony P

The Ancestry.com AncestryDNA test also costs $99 but there is a coupon for free shipping http://www.retailmenot.com/view/ancestry.com. With 23andme you have to pay around $10 shipping.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 04:02:19 lgodfrey

Ancestry only provides testing for autosomal DNA. It is $99.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 04:59:59 King

100 bucks!?? That’s not bad!! 🙂 Thanks guys.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 08:50:02 biff

First, let’s be clear. Some of the genetic testing has certainly yielded incorrect results for one reason or another. The test for Watson is almost certainly off, based on his family history. You would probably know if you had someone with say ~50% African genes in your last two generations (assuming you know your grandparents–and Watson’s are documented). That said, I’m sure there are many people in the U.S. with say 2-5% African genes who have no idea. I don’t know the details of Cobb’s family background, but even if he had three grandparents who unknowingly had an average of say 2% African genes (much higher than for the average white population in the U.S.), he would need to have one grandparent with 50% African genes to get to him having 14%. So, unless this was a very recent family secret (e.g., if his grandmother had a secret black lover), it also seems unlikely.

I understand the result for Watson is based on some publicly available gene readings from a number of years ago and some sequences are clearly off (i.e., certain sections would appear to contain 2 X chromosomes, instead of XY).

Gates, who researched genetic stuff quite a bit, concluded: “The bottom line is that 3 percent to 4 percent of people likely to consider themselves as all ‘white’ have some African ancestry — between 0.5 percent and 5 percent”. This number is actually incredibly small, and may even be too low, but it is interesting how for 300+ years U.S./British colony history involving a substantial percentage of Blacks, whites have managed to maintain quite a high degree of “whiteness” if you will.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 08:54:02 Origin

Frequently people who are said to be Bantu or Khoisan (previously Hottentot) live in the same general area. IIRC, the Herero and Nama of Namibia are Bantu and Khoisan respectively. I think it’s mostly a linguistic classification the Europeans used. (Bantu literally means people in the language the word is from.) The people could have intermarried. It happens everywhere else.

This is not to discount the possibility of Native american or Asian contribution giving a certain appearance to the eyes either. In some cases people of African descent were around when the indigenous population had not yet been wiped out. I remember reading that escaped slaves and the indigenous people might have lived together on the Caribbean islands, for example. Later, East Asian immigrants and Africans also made babies.

I don’t have a consistent ‘double-eyelid’ above my eye. The outer fold merges towards my eyelashes about halfway across the top. Can’t think of anyone similar as an example. I was going to comment on Mandela then I noticed he’s the opposite of what I’m describing for myself.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 09:20:45 jefe

@Kiwi

Why do I get the impression sometimes that Abagond wants to discount Asian ancestry in blacks?

Indeed, I got that impression too, even suggesting that most people would assume (even now). that it was a mere testing fluke rather than something that should be investigated further.

To Abagond’s credit, I think he is starting to rethink his position a bit. He admits it might not be purely a testing fluke now. But, maybe Abagond’s position might not be unique to him, but a common misperception in both the black American and Asian-American populations.

I first got tipped off in High School. A white guy told me that his mother had a Chinese great-grandfather or something and at that point of time, I did not know how that could be possible, but later I figured out it might have been possible. Several hundred thousand Chinese men entered the USA in the 2nd half of the 20th century, 90% with no prospect of bringing over wives. What did they do? It doesn’t take much thinking. Afterwards, half got killed off. Some others left permanently. Even the ones that stayed and survived may not have had the opportunity or right to marry their mothers (If you recall, women got stripped of their US nationality for marrying aliens ineligible for citizenship.) It does not take much more thinking to figure out how they got separated from their kids.

In the post-exclusion era, Chinese men in large Chinatowns (NY and SF) could visit brothels with Chinese female prostitutes. What did they do BEFORE the Exclusion era or OUTSIDE of these places after the Exclusion era?

Then I read about Lisa See, a “white” historian who writes about Chinese-American history, who had a Chinese great-grandfather. I read excerpts from “Chinese in the Post-Civil War South: A People Without History” (1984) by Lucy M. Cohen, written by a “black” woman who can trace part of her history to a Chinese man in the late 19th century, and even wrote a book about how the history of Chinese in Louisiana has simply faded into “black”. She wrote that all of the families that she researched, including her own, all got relabeled as something other than Chinese, mostly “colored”.

I read about many black American celebrities who indicate that they have some Chinese Ancestry. When I was a child, I knew of some elderly Chinese-American and Filipino-American men who had families with black women who were already having black grandchildren who were 1/4 Asian in the 1960s. Another 1-2 generations has passed since then.

Commenter Linda told us about Paula Madison, who identifies as American-born black and whose family owns the Africa Channel, but whose grandfather was from China and all her maternal aunts and uncles and first cousins are full Chinese.

I would hazard to guess that many of the mixed black-Chinese (and some of the mixed Chinese-white also) born in the late 19th century (and those part Japanese, Filipino or Chinese in the early 20th century) got disconnected from Asian communities some how. 6 generations later, it gets lost. And as I mentioned elsewhere, Jim Crow forced Chinese-American communities to disown them (1920s-1950s). I am sure many never wanted to talk about it or discuss it with their children.

We also had Chinese and Filipinos landing in the West Coast since the 1580s, Mexicans entering the USA (who are part Asian) and Filipino men who settled Louisiana since 1763 and brought few women with them. There are many ways it entered the non-Asian population in the USA before WWII.

But I also find it hard to believe that those 6th generation Americans you met are purely descendant from the 19th Century Chinese immigrants. I certainly believe that they could have some ancestor or two that entered the USA in the 19th century, but not ALL their ancestors. Some may have sent over to China for a wife in the 20th century (like my great uncle). Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn if some of them are 6% black or 9% white or 6% Native American. Some First Nations people in British Columbia readily admit that they or some family members have some Chinese ancestry (I have a source for that). In a situation where Asian men had NO women, a lot of things can happen.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 09:27:34 jefe

@Kiwi,

I also think that part of it might be explained in the unconscious wish that many black Americans have to identify their Native American heritage and maximize what ever Native American ancestry they might have. Henry Louis Gates told Chris Rock, Morgan Freeman & Don Cheadle that the Native American ancestry they “thought” they had was really “white” ancestry. Their DNA showed no evidence of native American ancestry.

If people are so quick to relabel their white ancestry as Native American, why should we be surprised that they might want to relabel their Asian ancestry as Native American?

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 10:21:59 jefe

This is NOT in reply to Biff. He does not have to reply to me.

But this is in regard to Biff’s comment

but it is interesting how for 300+ years U.S./British colony history involving a substantial percentage of Blacks, whites have managed to maintain quite a high degree of “whiteness” if you will.

This is so easily explainable and not really that “interesting”. It was due to something called “Jim Crow”, which was invented to keep non-European ancestry out of the white population. It was not established to keep European blood out of non-white Americans. Given the low percentage of non-European ancestry that most white Americans have, we could say that Jim Crow was somewhat effective.

The fact that Biff finds it “interesting” and not “demeaning and oppressive” shows that he is blind to some of his own white supremacist thinking.

So mulattoes and quadroons and even octoroons were forced to marry each other (or more African “Negroes”) but forbidden to marry whites. So European ancestry gets spread more deeply throughout the black population, but not so much into the white population. Of course it still happened. Octoroons, and some quadroons “passed” as white. Few people with more African ancestry than Anatole Broyard succeeded in passing, but it shows that we have people like Bliss Broyard who were 17% African and grew up with absolutely no idea that she had any black African ancestry at all. It is certainly very possible to have that much black African ancestry and not be aware of it.

By 1970, 2 modes of African ancestry emerged in the US population, with one centering at around 80% African and one centering somewhere between 6-10% African (with a long tail below 5%). The former identified as black; the latter as white. Much of the latter did not even know they were part black. The 20-35% black ancestry population had been flattened out – meaning it almost disappeared. They would have been forced to choose whether they were white or black, and then marry and had children accordingly.

Finally, the definition of “whiteness” has nothing to do with the fraction of European ancestry. It is disheartening that one may view the definition of “whiteness” in that way. That is a very “Jim Crow” way of looking at the world.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 11:12:53 biff

This is also NOT in reply to jefe, since he did not reply to me. However, I will ignore him and focus on something that he said (because I am kindhearted and always return favors). He and Kiwi do NOT have to reply to me. They are allowed to just let me have the last word. No really, they are.

The maintenance of European Americans’ “whiteness” over such a long period is “interesting” in the sense that people often refer to the U.S. as a “melting pot”, but not everything melts together the same way. Whether that changes radically in the near future remains to be seen (certainly, interbreeding between whites and Asians and whites and hispanics is more common). However, it’s very possible that , say 50 years from now, American race relations are actually much worse than they are now, as our “diversity” increases. The U.S. is undertaking a grand experiment in testing the limits of social cohesion. Recent trends aren’t encouraging in this regard.

Someone unmentionable said, “Finally, the definition of “whiteness” has nothing to do with the fraction of European ancestry. It is disheartening that one may view the definition of “whiteness” in that way.”

Yes, albino Africans are white, and if someone with 100% European ancestry gets tanned enough they may no longer be white, and should qualify for affirmative action accordingly. Makes sense.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 13:21:33 jefe

Oh Jeez

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 14:30:36 Anthony P

The accuracy would improve the more Africans, Asians, etc are in the database to strengthen them and give them more detail.

Again, I don’t mean to spam, but 23andme wants to give free kits to West African U.S. residents who have four grandparents from one of these 8 countries: Benin, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Mali, Senegal, or Togo. in order to do just that, strengthen the West African database, as part of their free African Ancestry Project. https://www.23andme.com/cohort/africanancestry/

They have to have four grandparents from ONE of these countries (all four from say, Togo), and not a combination of them (Gambia and Mali).

And also it would help African Americans and Jamaicans, Hatians,etc. find African relatives, just as people of European descent are able to find European relatives.

If you know any candidates or run across any,such as an African Student Union, please bring the free project to their attention. https://www.23andme.com/cohort/africanancestry/

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 14:33:03 jefe

More detailed information about the DNA analysis of the people above. Interesting.
(http://chancellorfiles.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/dna-and-african-ancestry-test-results/)

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 14:39:23 Anthony P

I wonder what the results of them would be if they did one of the updated tests, today. The admixture test they would have done would have been Ancestry BY DNA 2.5 from DNA Print Genomics (NOT Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA)

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 15:44:28 abagond

@ Anthony P

Yeah, you are coming across as borderline spam. Like, who repeats links in the same comment? Spambots do. If you have a financial interest in one of these places (as employee, stockholder, etc), you should say so in the interests of full disclosure.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 16:02:03 Anthony P

My apologies. I won’t post the link again. I am a customer of 23andme who is trying to spread word about the project because I want to see more accurate results for us and maybe a relative. My apologies. I even sent you an email yesterday since you are in New York and probably know a West African or two who could be a candidate,lol.

23andme really has not done much to announce the project so that many people, including candidates, could be aware of it. They just had a webpage and barely mentioned it in a few articles as if that would be enough to make folks know about it.

I’ve been into genetic genealogy for several years now. 23andme a few years ago enabled European-descended folks to get breakdowns in Europe plus relatives, I’m just trying to help out however I can so black folks can finally have the same or something close, since 23andme finally announced they want to do the same for us.

But if we don’t get to have that, then we don’t.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 18:32:45 resw77

@lgodfrey

“Ancestry only provides testing for autosomal DNA.”

No, they do y-chromosome tests for men, and this is Ancestry.com’s reasoning:

“Ancestry’s Paternal Lineage (Y-chromosome 33 or 46) Test

If your goal is to try to expand your family tree, Paternal Lineage tests provide the DNA results necessary to help find other participants who might be genetically related to you. The Paternal Lineage test analyzes specific segments of the Y-chromosome which is only found in males. Because the Y-chromosome is passed largely unchanged from father to son, DNA results from a male participant today can be used to trace paternal lineage dozens of generations into the past.”

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 18:36:34 Anthony P

Ancestry.com ended their paternal/maternal lineage testing some time ago. Now they just do autosomal testing. It would have been nice if they had done both autosomal and paternal/maternal lineage together like 23andme does.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 18:39:16 Anthony P

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2014/06/ancestrycom-officially-retires-y-dna.html

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 19:18:58 jefe

^ Any commenter who throws out such “out there” remarks like “grandmother with a secret black lover”, albino Africans are “white” and tanned Europeans are “non-white” is welcome to have the last word on those trains of thought. Those trains of thought (or deliberate obtuseness, whichever the case) do not need further discussion.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 19:44:07 Sharina

I think I spoke too soon on another thread.

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on Tue Aug 5th 2014 at 22:45:31 Mbeti

Still an’t got around to it just like ,it will take a while fo I read all these comments.
Rarely even hear it mention among the african americans I regularly encounter,
Must be Class a class privilege thing….somethings some people can afford to care about others……

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 17:50:41 resw77

@Anthony P

“Ancestry.com ended their paternal/maternal lineage testing some time ago. ”

That’s not what your link says. It says “Ancestry.com announced today that they are officially retiring five of their sites and/or products as of September 5, 2014.” So it technically hasn’t ended yet.

As to atDNA, it’s still very questionable whether it can determine how much white or black someone is, and some think it’s less reliable than mtDNA and Y-DNA tests.

Here’s the flaw with these tests (besides what I mentioned earlier): it’s based on a geneticist’s interpretation of the frequency of a person’s genetic markers, and so it’s really just conjecture what percentage black, white or yellow someone is (not that black, white or yellow are scientific terms).

Even siblings have varying frequencies, making it totally possible for siblings to be different ethnicities (according to these tests).

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 18:20:13 biff

Sharina, dear, I take it your latest comment was related to me. Please understand that I was engaging in good faith in this thread too. It follows a typical pattern. My first comment was making several reasoned points re: Abagond’s post and not responding to anyone (i.e., minding my own business). Then Kiwi and/or jefe tries to attack my comment. In this case, it was jefe first (Kiwi jumps in for round 2). He would like to attack my comments from a distance without engaging me, i.e., without allowing me to respond to him or question his arguments. You can read jefe’s initial response to “my comment” (not to me). It is rather patronizing. My further response to him was just demonstrating how ridiculous his response was. I don’t actually believe tanned people of European ancestry are non-white, and jefe doesn’t actually believe that whiteness has nothing to do with European ancestry. That was my point.

I do hope some people “get” what I do here. It’s not trolling. A lot of it is making points by exposing flaws in my attackers’ reasoning. I realize it can go over some peoples’ heads, Including, in this case both jefe’s and Kiwi’s.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 18:56:11 Anthony P

@ resw77 Ancestry.com is no longer offering their paternal/maternal lineage tests, and the folks who already done them will have to hurry and download them.

As for the autosomal testing, it is true that you will probably never be able to say exactly what percent white or black someone is. But there is more to autosomal testing than just that.

A more valuable feature of autosomal testing is being able to confirm genetic relatives that you may not be able to find from paper trail genealogy, which as we know for AA’s is hard to come by.

It’s really good for people who are adoptees,also.

So, even if someone has apprehensions about the accuracy of the admixture test percents, the genetic relatives features are still a redeeming part of 23andme and Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 19:01:39 Sharina

biff

“I do hope some people “get” what I do here. It’s not trolling. A lot of it is making points by exposing flaws in my attackers’ reasoning.”—I actually understand what you say here simply because it is kind of what I do. So I even get the responses you get. You use to make some off the wall comments that really were just crazy and it was hard for me or others to take your seriously. I see you trying so I can’t label you a troll in good faith. I will read through all comments later. I have been in a long argument in another thread. One that is actually draining.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 19:05:24 Sharina

Anthony P

“It’s really good for people who are adoptees,also.”—That is exactly what I would need it for. My grandmother was adopted or pretty much given away as a baby. I do a bit of genealogy and she is one I am always stuck on.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 19:26:01 Anthony P

Don’t forget to use the freeshipping coupon I posted earlier for Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 19:34:53 resw77

@Anthony P

“Ancestry.com is no longer offering their paternal/maternal lineage tests”

That may be, but Ancestry.com had long offered the tests through most of its history, and many other companies do still offer y-dna tests.

Regardless, the source of the percentages that Abagond posted above are primarily from Henry Louis Gates, Jr., and based on y-dna and mtDNA tests.

“As for the autosomal testing, it is true that you will probably never be able to say exactly what percent white or black someone is.”

That’s mostly the point I’m making, and it’s far from a question of being exact. It’s conjecture and not at all scientific to say what percentage black, white or yellow someone is.

“But there is more to autosomal testing than just that.”

Right, good at deciding who’s the father on Maury, not good for determining what percentage white or black someone is.

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on Wed Aug 6th 2014 at 22:23:01 Anthony P

@resw77
“Right, good at deciding who’s the father on Maury, not good for determining what percentage white or black someone is.”
Funny. There is still plenty of value to 23andme and AncestryDNA, though you may not believe so.
The autosomal tests are not paternity tests, btw.

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 05:25:33 jefe

@Kiwi

I understood your comment to mean that some multiracial people can still look less black than other multiracial people despite having more African DNA.

Actually, that was not my main point (although that might be technically true and one of my minor points).

My main point was that the existing DNA distribution and thus gene flow between groups in the USA points directly to Jim Crow. The commenter thought it was “interesting” that blacks in the USA often have 20-30% European ancestry, sometimes even much more, but how whites usually have very low percentages in the single digits, if at all.

But that was the direct result of Jim Crow, and I don’t find the painful reminders of the legacy of that era to be “interesting”.

At the close of the Civil War, many blacks (probably at least half of them) were not mixed with European and maybe another 1/4 were relatively unmixed (over 80% African) and whites were likely not very mixed either (most were not African at all despite living in majority African areas – their mixed kids were still slaves. But at that time we had a large number of people labelled Mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, etc. Those designations were disappearing by 1890 and gone by 1900.

Most octoroons had no trouble passing as white (even though, as in the case of Homer Plessy, they were still “colored”). But anti-miscegenation laws forbid them to marry whites. So they married each other, and also darker blacks. It is the descendant of the offspring between quadroons and mulattos and relatively unmixed blacks gives rise to the mixture that we had a century later. You can watch Maya Angelou’s video when she talks about her grandmother that was very light and mostly white. You can read about when Malcolm X talks about his very light mother and white grandfather.

However, octoroons and quadroons did often elect to “pass”, and many did not tell their kids. After a few generations, the percentage of African blood drops down into the single digits. It caused a bottoming out of the population that was, say, between 15% and 40% African – they were forced to choose whether to be white or black. We had hundreds of thousands, if not over a million of them in 1865. In 1965, there were hardly any at all. The effect of Jim Crow was that it got rid of those people.

I found all this out in high school. For Advanced history class I elected to do a report on the creation and salience of America’s ethnic and racial groups — ie, was it indeed a melting pot. So I read all the books that I could find on the subject. I discovered that whites (esp. those whose ancestors arrived before the Civil War) and blacks by and large share the same set of ancestors, yet we had very socially disparate and separated racial groups. I also learned about the concepts of “enlargement of whiteness” that Abagond brought up here. That was way before any of those books that he referenced were written.

Jim Crow also explains why there was far more gene flow from the Chinese and other Asian American populations into the black population, but relatively little into the white population in the Deep South (at least pre-1967) and little African gene flow back into the Asian American groups. Jim Crow forced Asian Americans more or less to disown their mixed black relatives and most states did not let Asians marry whites.

We do have some white Americans with some Asian ancestry traced back to the late 19th century or early 20th century, most of which occurred in States which did not have anti-miscegenation laws. Even Chang and Eng Bunker (Siamese Twins) have thousands or “white” descendants alive today.

So, those observations from that commenter feels like getting Jim Crow and the exclusion laws rubbed into one’s face. Does not feel nice.

But in the 21st century, the country is now filling the 15-40% African mixture back in — more of those people are now being born, including many that are triracial and quadriracial. There has also been a large influx of Latinos, many of whom have African ancestry quantums in that range. The two modes that existed in 1970 are flattening and may even disappear (as modes, that is).

The minor point was that it is indeed possible to be up to 15-20% black African and not know that one is partly of African descent. Bliss Broyard is a prime example of that. It also explains how two white parents can have a “coloured” child, as in the case of Sandra Laing.

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 07:25:09 the commenter formerly known as biff (cfkab)

tldr: Kiwi was completely wrong about my comment, but I don’t want to make him look bad, so I’ll say he had a good idea. “The commenter” made me feel bad by using all these percentages just like I imagine people must have back in the evil Jim Crow days.

Omitted: mention that the commenter didn’t question that it is indeed possible to be up to 15-20% black African and not know that one is partly of African descent, but stated that it would generally have to involve not knowing one’s real grandparents, as in the case of Ms. Broyard.

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 10:30:24 Pay It Forward

resw77 writes:

“Regardless, the source of the percentages that Abagond posted above are primarily from Henry Louis Gates, Jr., and based on y-dna and mtDNA tests”

– – –

That is an interesting claim (source?).

I myself just cannot see how Y-DNA or mtDNA alone can possibly provide one’s “racial” percentages, whether accurate or inaccurate, as this type of ‘coding’ is passed down relatively UNCHANGED from father to son (Y-DNA) or from mother to child (mtDNA) over thousands of years, as it is only infrequently affected by mutation. A man can look to all the world like a unmixed West African gentleman and still carry Y-DNA that is said to derive from Germany.

This has been the case many times for so-called “New World” Black men. They are the descendants of enslaved African women who were impregnated with a son by a Euro-descended man. The sons of those enslaved women had sons of their own, and passed down to their sons a replica of their Euro-descended father’s Y-DNA. The mitochondrial DNA of the mothers, however, was not passed down to her son’s sons, as only mothers can pass on mtDNA, and not only to their daughters. as fathers pass on their Y-DNA to their sons only, but to all offspring, regardless of sex.

My own mtDNA hapolGROUP is L2, which, according to National Geographic.com, orignated in East Africa upwards of 50,000 to 70,000 years ago, and is a common haplogroup amongst those Africans and descendants whose African ancestors “never left the continent”.

The fact that my own mtDNA haplogroup (my haploTYPE is presented as a seemingly random sequence of letters and numbers — no racial percentages in sight) originated in a woman living on the continent of (what we now call) Africa so many millennia ago, does cannot prove that I myself am an unadulterated, present day Africanc– especially as this kind of DNA was inherited by me from my mother, a woman, largely European descent, with pale, pink-white skin, green eyes, and ash blonde hair.

[As was previously mentioned, Y-DNA is passed down relatively unchanged (genetic mutations are said to occur very infrequently in this type of DNA) from father to son for MILLENNIA. This is why it used in proving paternity on such shows as the Maury show, though Y-DNA is,in all probability, used in conjunction with autosomal test results, rather than just by itself alone. Since all the males on the father’s paternal line of descent carry the same Y-DNA, the only way to get a more accurate result is to test the potential father’s own body cell DNA, AKA “autosomal DNA”. That, together with his Y-DNA result, should be pretty conclusive as to whether he is or is not, in fact, the father.

However, if the potential father is one of a set of identical twins (triplets quadruplets etc), well then I guess that will complicate matters a bit.]

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 20:38:21 Déborah M

I’m a non-American black woman born and raised in Europe and I’m from direct West African descent so I’m very familiar with my heritage even though I live in the Western world.

I have a few questions for Afro-Americans and other mixed black populations (Afro-Latinos, Carribeans, Cape Verdeans, etc);

1) Do you feel the need to embrace your non-black African heritage even though most of it was probably a product of rape?

2) Do you feel proud of your African roots?

3) Do you try to reconnect with your African heritage? If so, how?

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 21:51:47 SomeGuy

I had this test done through AncestryDNA and received some interesting results.

51% Africa (21% Benin/Togo, 12% Cameroon/Congo, 5% Mali, 6% Senegal, 4% Ivory Coast/Ghana, 3% Nigeria.)

49% European (29% Europe West, 8% Scandinavia, 5% Ireland, 2% Great Britain, 2% Italy/Greece, 1% European Jewish, 1% Iberian Peninsula, and 1% Finland/Northwest Russia,)

Overall, I would say that I am satisfied with the results. I would have preferred an African breakdown of Ethnic groups (what Europeans call “tribes”), rather than National categories, though. An interesting side note is that my aunt, father’s sister, came back 41% Benin/Togo. That is rather high for an African American.

BTW: What’s up to everyone. I’ve been away for a while. Good to “see” you guys again.

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on Thu Aug 7th 2014 at 21:57:22 Anthony P

@Déborah M

1) Our non-black heritage is just part of us and why we are here today, regardless of how it entered our family trees. It is what it is.

2) We are proud to be descended from a diverse blend of West African cultures: Mandinka, Yoruba, Kru, Bamilike,etc.

3)Since we don’t have a paper trail geneaology, DNA is one good way. By the way, do you happen to reside in the United States, and is your family from one of these 8 West African countries: Mali, Benin, Togo, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Equitorial Guinea, Gambia, or Senegal? If so, would you please see the link I posted earlier about the Google-associated company 23andme’s free project to help connect people of African descent with possible West African relatives?

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 00:46:02 marc

I don’t understand the American obsession with ancestry/race. It’s bad enough that when one of you find out you had a relative from 200 years ago who was Irish or Scottish you claim to be from either country but now your taking tests to see how black or white people are I just don’t understand at all why it’s a big deal to anybody.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 01:21:55 sharina

@Marc

Some people like to know where they came from and what is their make up. I see no real harm in it. Just curiosity. I personally seek to do it because I want to know those things.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 02:36:46 SomeGuy

@Marc

Of course, you don’t understand. You probably know who you are and who your people were. If you never had your history erased and your ethnicity “reset”, you can’t really identify with people who have. I took the test to find out who my African ancestors may have been. To me, that is both enlightening and empowering. How could you not understand that? A huge part of the African American identity is completely missing, due to slavery. How can it be strange to want to feel a sense of completeness that EVERY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP ON THE PLANET CAN CLAIM EXCEPT US?

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 04:43:42 jefe

@Someguy

An interesting side note is that my aunt, father’s sister, came back 41% Benin/Togo. That is rather high for an African American.

Yet it is entirely consistent with your results, since you are half that. That adds some credibility that the results are also consistent when compared among related people tested separately.

How can it be strange to want to feel a sense of completeness that EVERY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP ON THE PLANET CAN CLAIM EXCEPT US?

African Americans are hardly unique in the inability to trace their racial and ethnic ancestry or have huge missing chunks.

Typical examples include:
– ethnic “Eurasians” in Malaysia and Singapore. Some are a complex mixture of different Asian and European ethnic groups dating back to the early 19th century or in some cases, back to the 16th century. Much of their ancestry is lost or taken away from them.
– Filipinos are about 65% Malay, but the rest is a complete hodgepodge of different European and Asian, Arab, Native American, aboriginal Negritos and even black African. Few actually know their exact ethnic and racial background
– Cape Coloureds in South Africa, which are a mixture of multiple ethnic groups of African, European and Asian origin.
– Brazilians, which are similar to many Americans in not knowing much of their racial and ethnic background, partially due to slavery and also to other reasons.

I would even purport that a significant proportion of white Americans (as least as many as African Americans) largely feel a blur regarding their own racial and ethnic ancestry. And the longer back that one can trace their ancestors in the USA, the higher the likelihood that they have some African, Native American, even Asian ancestry in addition to their unknown mixed European.

But I agree that there is nothing strange or abnormal in wanting to know this information.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 05:00:38 SomeGuy

I believe I am allowed a bit of hyperbole to make my point, especially since people of the African Diaspora were intentionally and systematically denied their history- not just as a “natural” consequence of history.

As for the Benin/Togo part of my results, as I understand it, many AA actually do not have such a high percentage of ancestry in that region. Kind of makes me wonder why that is.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 10:21:58 P.

I wouldn’t put much stock into the George Lopez numbers (or the Skip Gates percentages for that matter). An actual genealogist openly questioned the accuracy and methodology of the tests and provided greater insight into the DNA testing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-smolenyak-smolenyak/playing-with-dna-is-larry_b_402795.html

Oh, and as a long time lurker I can’t leave without mentioning that I think your blog is excellent, and it helped me out in several ways. Keep up the good work, Abagond.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 16:09:56 Déborah M

@ Anthony P

My father is half Togolese/half Beninese and I go to Bénin pretty often (at least twice a year when I don’t live in the US). I don’t reside in the US right now, I’m back to Europe for a few years but I plan to go back to America later.

BTW, Bénin is a very interesting country. There’s a city called Ouidah which was a major slave-trading post in West Africa.
I visited the Ouidah Museum of History where there’s an historical attraction called “La Route des Esclaves” (The Slave Route).

“This is the road thousands of slaves traveled on their way to board the slaving ships for the New World”
c
http://www.museeouidah.org/VisitingOuidah.htm

I went to Place Chacha too where the Slave Auctions were held. I also remember my guide was a young redhead black boy.

At the end of the tour, there’s a monument called “La Porte de non-retour” (The Door of No Return). The door is facing the ocean and this was the last stop before the slaves left the black continent.
Then, we were explained that women and children were separated from men before they boarded the slaving ships.

Near the Door of No Return, there’s a kind of “hut/house” where Voodoo priests regularly pray and ask for forgiveness from the Africans (and their descendents) who went unwillingly to the New World.

We were also talked about the Amazones; they were Beninese female warriors who built armies and organized to fight against the capture and sale of slaves. I’m proud to share ancestry with such strong and admirable women.

Some Beninese traditions survived through slavery and are still practiced today in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Brazil, (the state of)Louisiana, etc.

I took a look at your link, I will definitely do it when I come back to the US.

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on Fri Aug 8th 2014 at 18:39:53 Anthony P

Thank you very much. And as for the history, it is what it is, I really can’t blame too much the tribes/ethnic groups fighting over the white traders’ guns and satisfying their demands for kidnap victims. If I had been a King of Dahomey and fighting with, say the Yorubas, and whites were offering things like guns, then I’d probably provide what they want too,especially since the whites are also supplying guns to the Yoruba or whatever enemy group that might also be dealing with the whites..
Regardless of whether “Africans sold other Africans”, “Africans gave away other Africans” or whatever, once the white planters in America decided that blacks made the best laborers as opposed to Native Americans (whom they had a very similar slave trade with) and other whites, it was still them who decided that the blacks and their descendants should be kept in permanent chattel slavery which led to the racial issues that we’ve had over the centuries that are still not completely done with today.
While those ethnic groups that dealt with the white traders knew that the whites were not going to do anything good with the enemies, they couldn’t have known at the time that there was going to be a bad cause and effect with race later on. The transatlantic slave trade,as terrible as it was, probably would not have been remembered so greatly had things not turn out so badly with race, starting with the cause and effect of blacks being perceived as better laborers than everyone else. It is what it is.

But,if I could go to Benin, I wouldn’t mind meeting Martine de Souza and seeing how different Voodoo there is compared to other places like New Orleans,lol.

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on Sat Aug 9th 2014 at 01:19:46 B. R.

I live in Brazil, and there was a documentary running a few times that I saw , where a film crew went back and forth between Benin and a Candomble house in a north east city in Brazil, communicating with each other and demonstrating their cerimonies to each other. The preists and higher ups in Benin recognised the ceramonies , beats and chants that the Brazilian Candomble group was doing…

Even more amazing, they showed that, after the Mare slave revolts in Salvador Bahia, which were mostly black muslims , who had been taken slaves , but still stayed muslim, and because of their reading skills, worked in the cities for the masters , running business and market matters in Pelorinho , where a lot of their markets were, but, after these slave revolts in Pelo, a bunch of slaves returned back to Africa, to a city in Benin, and affected the arcatecture , and customs in that city…with even a parade near carnival time with masks from the early 18 hundres of brazil…

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on Mon Aug 11th 2014 at 16:08:15 Déborah M

@ Anthony P

You’re welcome.

“it was them who decided that the blacks and their descendants should be kept in permanent shattel slavery.”
In many cases, the descendants were also the slave master’s children. Making your own flesh and blood a slave, how can it get more cruel?

During the slavery that took place in North Africa with the Arabs, the black female slaves became free once they birthed the children of their arabic slave master. Thus, the Afro-descendants in North Africa were not born into slavery unlike the Afro-descendants in America.

Bénin is really worth visiting so you should definitely go there if you can.
I’m also curious about how Voodoo differs from country to country. I already know some deities, like the Goddess of Water, have different names but I’m sure there are much deeper differences.

My father recommended that I visit New Orleans, he told me great things about this city. He also told me the French influence there is strong.

@B.R.

Yes, it is really amazing how Beninese traditions survived through slavery and I didn’t know Bénin also had Brazilian influences; I’m glad I learned something about one of my countries.
Bénin also has Portuguese influence and my father’s ancestors come from a Beninese city called Porto Novo. When I went to Bénin a few months ago, I also noticed some Beninese people have Portuguese last names such as Da Silva or Almeida.

I watched this documentary a couple of years ago and I found it really interesting and worth watching:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh7c46U5hhY)

BTW, some slaves that became free in America also returned to Africa, in Liberia. I know they became the ruling class there but I don’t know if there’s any American influence in Liberia.

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on Mon Aug 11th 2014 at 20:01:05 Bulanik

Déborah M

Bénin also has Portuguese influence and my father’s ancestors come from a Beninese city called Porto Novo. When I went to Bénin a few months ago, I also noticed some Beninese people have Portuguese last names such as Da Silva or Almeida.

It’s also possible that that intermingling goes back further, and in the other direction. Take the example of the Spanish conquistadors in Mexico.
Afro-Mexican historian Marco Polo Hernández Cuevas says of Mexico that:
“…the Spanish conquistadors brought African heritage with them, as descendants of the Iberians and the Moors of northern Africa who occupied Spain during the medieval era… The modern Spanish language still contains over 4,000 Arabic words.

[Therefore] Mexicans are African on their Spanish side, and African on [their] African side…and are as much African… as … Amerindian or European…

The Black Virgin — a representation of Virgin Mary with dark skin common throughout Spain, France and Mexico – is one example of African cultural influences…
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/the-map-of-white-people/#comment-229143

Apart from the “African” DNA carried by white Portguese, it’s possible that there were other “cultural” carryovers.
Perhaps this was so because Portugal also already had five centuries of occupation by an Afro-Asiatic people, the Moors?

It’s a speculation of course, but it’s possible that the Portuguese in Brazil were not only long familiar with the Moors’ cultural habits, but also accustomed to the Islam practised by many of their African slaves. Could this have influenced their slaving practices, too — particularly regarding the way Portuguese slave-masters regarded their own children as their own if they were borne by slaves?

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on Tue Aug 12th 2014 at 16:57:07 biggiefriez

I see now why many people prefer to be called “Black” rather than “African-American”. Many Black people have as much European or other genetic ancestry as they do African. In some cases they are more European genetically than African. In America, if you are visibly non-white with some African features then you’re Black, but maybe culturally and genetically you’re more European with little feeling for Africa as a place or Africans as a people.

Perhaps being Black is a better descriptor than African-American for individuals that acknowledge they are non-white but are not African in any meaningful way.

in this way, Blacks share a lot with Latino’s. Most Mexican American Latino’s I’ve met share little with Spain even though they are of mixed Spanish background. They also don’t necessarily share much with their Indian side. In this way they are their own group, a new ethnic group with their own hybridized culture.

This mixing of peoples and cultures in America has created a hot spot of culture generation and creativity. While we mix and create, other cultures throughout the world stagnate in their traditions, often unable to escape their own history. They wait for us to deliver unto them – Jazz, Tex-Mex, eleven herbs and spices, the internet, inventions and Hollywood.

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on Fri Aug 15th 2014 at 00:27:34 resw77

@Pay It Forward

“That is an interesting claim (source?)”

Well the claim is made by Abagond that Henry Louis Gates is the source of the percentages, and Henry Louis Gates makes the claim that they are based on y-DNA and mtDNA (as well as the many testing companies he promotes).

“I myself just cannot see how Y-DNA or mtDNA alone can possibly provide one’s “racial” percentages, whether accurate or inaccurate”

That, again, is the point I’m trying to make.

“This has been the case many times for so-called “New World” Black men. They are the descendants of enslaved African women who were impregnated with a son by a Euro-descended man. ”

“Since all the males on the father’s paternal line of descent carry the same Y-DNA, the only way to get a more accurate result is to test the potential father’s own body cell DNA, AKA “autosomal DNA”. ”

And the problem with autosomal DNA tests is that they are subjective not objective. They require someone’s opinion in order to classify it in terms of race (i.e., white, black, yellow, red). And mind you, race is not scientific, it’s sociological.

@Anthony P

“Funny. There is still plenty of value to 23andme and AncestryDNA, though you may not believe so.”

Are you also a paid promoter of 23andme as you are of AncestryDNA?

“The autosomal tests are not paternity tests, btw.”

Actually the value of autosomal tests is greater with paternity determinations than race determinations, not according to me, but many DNA test companies, some of which you are probably affiliated.

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on Sat Aug 16th 2014 at 00:10:24 Anthony P

I’m a customer of 23andme, Ancestry.com, AfricanAncestry, FamilyTreeDNA, AncestryBYDNA, and ConnectMyDNA, but I’m not an employee or affiliated with none of the companies.
Try telling someone who has actually found a close relative through either 23andme or Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA that there is NO value in genetic genealogy.

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on Sat Aug 16th 2014 at 20:08:32 Déborah M

@ Bulanik

“It’s also possible that that intermingling goes back further and in the other direction.”

I think I understand what you mean but I don’t think the Portuguese influence in Bénin is from the North African Arabs.
Indeed, the Portuguese came to Bénin for slave trade. They left a footprint mainly through Portuguese names and Bénin kingdom is one of the rare kingdoms in West Africa that did not have islamic influence.
Therefore, it’s more likely that intermingling was through the Portuguese and not through the Arabs, otherwise they would have left a footprint such as religion or Muslim/arabic names but it’s not the case.
Even the Portuguese who are a very Catholic people have a popular Muslim name called Fatima. It probably came from the North African influence in Southern Europe during Muslim conquests.

And you may be right about how islamic influence could have affected the way the Portuguese slave masters viewed their part-black children.
Indeed, in the Muslim traditions, religion is transmitted through the father (unlike the Jewish tradition) so it could have made the Portuguese slave masters’ children more “valuable”, spiritually speaking. But I don’t know for sure, it’s also speculation.

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on Sun Aug 17th 2014 at 23:50:12 resw77

@PayItForward

““This has been the case many times for so-called “New World” Black men. They are the descendants of enslaved African women who were impregnated with a son by a Euro-descended man. ”

Not all African woman brought to America as slaves were impregnated by “Euro-descended man,” in fact, very few of them were.

@AnthonyP

“I’m a customer…but I’m not an employee or affiliated with none of the companies.”

Is the double negative a sly way of admitting that you are an affiliate or paid promoter of those companies? If not, you sure could’ve fooled me, especially with the bit about the free coupon.

“Try telling someone who has actually found a close relative through either…”

I don’t doubt that these testing services are great ways to find out who’s the daddy or to whom someone is closely related, as I’ve said before. I just think there’s little value in determining what percentage race someone is, especially b/c race is not scientific.

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 03:30:50 Anthony P

@resw77 “Not all African woman brought to America as slaves were impregnated by “Euro-descended man,” in fact, very few of them were.” Those supposed “very few” were enough for around 70% of AAs to have some Euro descent.

“Is the double negative a sly way of admitting that you are an affiliate or paid promoter of those companies? If not, you sure could’ve fooled me, especially with the bit about the free coupon.” I am what I said I am, a customer who has followed genetic genealogy for a while.
And do you really think I could be an employee of multiple companies?

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 10:35:25 jefe

I think more than 70% of black Americans have at least some Euro ancestry, probably over 90%. It is difficult to find black Americans with NO Euro Ancestry, esp. if they trace their ancestry to before the Civil War.

Is the figure of 70% have to do with the percentage of black men who trace their Y-DNA haplogroup to Africa, as approx 30% trace that to Europe.Given that we have some that trace back to Asia or the Americas, maybe even less than 70% trace back to Africa.

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 13:41:52 Bulanik

@ Deborah M

I think I understand what you mean but I don’t think the Portuguese influence in Bénin is from the North African Arabs.

That is NOT what I said, or meant.
Benin is a different matter altogether. My point was not directed towards the North African influence on the Portuguese in West Africa (if any).

I was speaking of Brazil. That is why I used the example of conquistadors in Mexico, to speculate about the conquistador/explorers in Brazil, in turn.

I was talking about the Portuguese in Brazil, and not the Portuguese in Benin.
My quote was the example of Iberia in the direction of the Americas, I simply do not believe a similar argument could be made for the case of West Africa, especially among the Beninese!

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 16:52:03 resw77

@Anthony P

“Those supposed “very few” were enough for around 70% of AAs to have some Euro descent.”

That has nothing to do with your bogus claim that all or most black slave women were “impregnated by Euro-descended man.”

Plus, there have been many “African Americans” who have taken the test to find they are supposedly 0% African, and as I mentioned before, even siblings can be of different races according to these tests. So claiming that 70% of African Americans have European descent based on these tests is completely meaningless.

“And do you really think I could be an employee of multiple companies?”

I never suggested you were an “employee.” “Paid promoter” was what I specifically said, and yes, one can be a “paid promoter” of multiple companies.

Or perhaps you’re getting a referral fee? I’m clearly not the only one who had suspicions.

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 17:48:51 Anthony P

““Those supposed “very few” were enough for around 70% of AAs to have some Euro descent.”

That has nothing to do with your bogus claim that all or most black slave women were “impregnated by Euro-descended man.””

Did I claim that all or most black slave women were “impregnated by Euro-descended man.””? I said enough were in order for so many AAs who are unrelated to one another have European ancestry. Not all or most black black slave women were “impregnated by Euro-descended man.”” , but it certainly had to have been more than “very few”.

“Plus, there have been many “African Americans” who have taken the test to find they are supposedly 0% African, and as I mentioned before, even siblings can be of different races according to these tests. So claiming that 70% of African Americans have European descent based on these tests is completely meaningless.”

I don’t know if 70% of African Americans exactly have some European ancestry but it’s up there. Not only do most African Americans I’ve seen get assigned European percentages and substantial European percentages at that, like 2% or above, but pretty much all of them also, on 23andme ,Ancestry.com’s AncestryDNA, FamilyTreeDNA’s “FamilyFinder” and Gedmatch.com, have white genetic relatives. So yes, a very large portion of contemporary African Americans definitely do have some white ancestry for real. That may not mean much socially, in that an African American is not going to be seen as any “less black” than full blood Africans are, but genetically, yes, the typical African American does have some definite European.

As for siblings being of “different races according to these tests”, yes, with the old, very flawed and seriously outdated AncestryBYDNA 2.5 test that was formerly from DNA Print Genomics and now the DNA Diagnostics Center https://www.ancestrybydna.com/ , some cases can have one sibling getting a noise range result like “2% East Asian” while the other doesn’t get it.
Even with the updated tests, you won’t see siblings having results like that where one sibling gets a race that may or may not actually have while the other doesn’t, but siblings will get different (slightly) percents of what they both have because siblings inherit slightly different DNA from the parents. One sibling can be 87% African while another can be 88% African. That’s what autosomal DNA is. That’s not a reason in itself to be hung up about the tests when there is so much else to them like health analysis and genetic relatives.

As for “there have been many “African Americans” who have taken the test to find they are supposedly 0% African” , even though I haven’t seen every single African American take a test from every single company, I highly doubt that there have been many African Americans getting “0.% African” results.

I have only seen this once where an African American took a test and found that it said that he was supposedly “0% African”. It was on an episode of NBC Nightline from late 2003. A dark-skinned man who was raised
as a Louisana Creole who was a school principal in California named Wayne Joseph. I found a link to the story. http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=129005
He took one of the earlier versions of DNA Print’s AncestryBYDNA test and it said he was “0.% African”. This was at time when the technology was just starting. I would like to see if Mr. Joseph has taken any of the later tests, if not just for the ancestry portion, but their other features, which I have mentioned multiple times but you are still hung up over the ancestry aspect not being completely perfect.

How can you knock genetic genealogy the way you have been doing when you haven’t tried it?

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on Mon Aug 18th 2014 at 21:54:13 melody

lol, *Bamilekes are not native to northern Cameroon, and Igbos are not native to western Cameroon

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on Tue Aug 19th 2014 at 16:39:29 resw77

@Anthony P

“Did I claim that all or most black slave women were “impregnated by Euro-descended man.””?”

It sure appeared that way when you stated, “…so-called “New World” Black men. They are the descendants of enslaved African women who were impregnated with a son by a Euro-descended man. ”

“So yes, a very large portion of contemporary African Americans definitely do have some white ancestry for real. ”

That’s just guesswork, and is not at all measurable b/c “white” is not a genetic term.

“but genetically, yes, the typical African American does have some definite European.”

What is a “typical African American?”

“Even with the updated tests, you won’t see siblings having results like that where one sibling gets a race that may or may not actually have while the other doesn’t”

The more you speak, the more I know you know little about these tests. Siblings commonly get extremely different results using autosomal tests.

” I highly doubt that there have been many African Americans getting “0.% African” results.”

Well, that again is your opinion. I personally know that it happens, and with little effort you can find cases of that phenomenon too.

“How can you knock genetic genealogy the way you have been doing when you haven’t tried it?”

I actually have, which is one of many sources for my skepticism.

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on Wed Aug 20th 2014 at 17:09:15 Anthony P

“What is a “typical African American?””
The average African American.

“The more you speak, the more I know you know little about these tests. Siblings commonly get extremely different results using autosomal tests.”
I’ve been around genetic genealogy for several years and in addition to multiple family members test with multiple companies, know several other folks who have done the same. I know more than a little about these tests.

“I actually have, which is one of many sources for my skepticism.”
Please share a little about your experience. What company’s test did you do and when?

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on Fri Sep 5th 2014 at 14:18:10 elbaka bey

the african has been in the americas before the 1400s.via atlantic ocean.(olmec.washitaw.moors.and 1909 aridzona gazette) not by slave ship.

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on Fri Mar 27th 2015 at 14:52:05 ricardo

These are not accurate since they trace the female lineage of the family,these test don’t have enough American Indian Indian DNA to test,since the population samples are not taken by whites.

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on Thu Apr 2nd 2015 at 01:08:23 michelle Wimsatt

I took the DNA test it said I was 42% Africa 19% Nigeria 8% Congo and other regions 56% Europe 27% Europe west 11% Europe east and other regions 1% American 1% native American 1% asian

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on Thu Apr 2nd 2015 at 01:47:56 jefe

@Michelle Wimsatt,

What is the difference between 1% American and 1% Native American? If the former is part of European, shouldn’t it point to Europe?

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on Sat Jun 27th 2015 at 22:11:55 Esteban Conde

This site has incorrectly listed Jessica Alba as being 0 percent Sub Saharan African when in fact she was tested at 2 percent SSA by Dr. Gates… It was never mentioned on that episode, however, if you were paying attention to her pie chart, it read 2 percent, while her father’s pie chart read 4 percent. … It’s quite possible that Jessica’s father requested that their African DNA not be mentioned. .. I know that just recently, Ben Afleck asked Dr. Gates to not mention the fact that several of his relatives were slave holders… The reason why I think it was Jessica’s father who requested this, and not Jessica is that Jessica seems to be very vocal and proud of her non white bloodline from her father’s side, and she is married to a man who is half black and white… I know that many older Mexican Americans deny their African ancestry… Maybe her father is one of these people…

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on Wed Jul 8th 2015 at 21:42:46 ricoh

American Indians are all so call Asians, and many tribes had slanted eyes, despite “uncle tom” Henry Gates assertions.

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on Wed Jul 8th 2015 at 21:50:10 ricoh

George Lopez looks like the Afro pre Columbian stone heads who had predominate Africa characteristic. These people lived in Mexico for thousand of years. Their were also black Indian tribes located in the Rio Grande and in Mexico according to Lewis and Clark and other white invader exploxers.

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on Wed Oct 14th 2015 at 19:42:07 Jess Miller

Hello, I am Hispanic and my DNA test from Ancestry came as follows:
58% White, 29% Native American and 13% African. But my african part came from Northern Africa, so I think they are Middle Eastern and not Black. Remember that Spain was owned and operated by Arabs for more than 800 years.

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on Wed Oct 14th 2015 at 21:46:01 sharinalr

@Jess Miller

You do realize that the concept of Northern Africa is a modern one? It was not always the stumping ground of Middle easterners.

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 16:51:03 Jess Miller

Sharinalr, people from North Africa are light skin, Caucasoid. The Berbers are blond hair, blue eyes. Anyway, I uploaded my DNA results to other places, and the results are almost identical, except the African part, they list it as Middle Eastern or Red Sea. So, Ancestry dot com, has some errors in there, when they list North Africans are Africans, it should be Middle Eastern. And by the way, I have been told I look like Scott Baio.

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 17:11:37 abagond

@ Jess Miller

Ancestry.com and the others could all be right. Egypt is considered “Middle Eastern”, “North African” and lies along the Red sea. According to some definitions of “Middle Eastern” and “North African”, Sudan could also fit all three.

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 17:45:57 Fan ...

“Hello, I am Hispanic and my DNA test from Ancestry came as follows:
58% White, 29% Native American and 13% African. But my african part came from Northern Africa, so I think they are Middle Eastern and not Black.”
.
.
http://stewartsynopsis.com/8percentexit.htm says this, in part.

“A study by the University of Chicago found that Arab populations, including Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouin [have] sub-Saharan African genes. A possible explanation is the proximity of the Arabian peninsula to the Black African nations. Yemenite Arabs have 35% Black African genes in their mtDNA, while others have less. Arabs who have Arab ancestors stretching beyond the last 1,400 years – are actually 35% Black in their mtDNA. These Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula.”

.
.

“And by the way, I have been told I look like Scott Baio.”

‘
Well Jess, let’s hope for your sake Scott Baio doesn’t have any Black genes somewhere in HIS ancestry. But if I were you (and lived in Amerika) I’d simply self- identify as white and forget about the 13% ancestry you seemingly aren’t interested in having.

In the USA, you can choose to be whomever – and all you can be!

(But should Blacks/Africans ever miraculously receive reparations of any kind, remember, YOU ARE self-declared Middle Eastern, not African! We don’t want any posers, pretenders or outsiders dipping into OUR award.)

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 17:55:40 sharinalr

@Jess Miller

You seem to not understand. North Africa was not always light skin caucasoid. The act of calling it middle eastern/North Africa is a modern act or term usage. If you do research you will find that is not what those areas were even called. You will also find the inhabitants were not caucasoid in appearance. The modern change of borders and language is only used to separate the “black” part of Africa from the “white” part of it. Either way that does not mean that you are exampt from the “black” part. DNA does not work like that.

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 17:58:23 sharinalr

@Fan…

Thank you. I was trying to be polite, but where do they get this North Africa is for “light skinned berber caucasoids”?

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on Thu Oct 15th 2015 at 18:02:46 abagond

@ Fan @ Jess Miller

““A study by the University of Chicago found that Arab populations, including Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouin [have] sub-Saharan African genes. A possible explanation is the proximity of the Arabian peninsula to the Black African nations. Yemenite Arabs have 35% Black African genes in their mtDNA, while others have less. Arabs who have Arab ancestors stretching beyond the last 1,400 years – are actually 35% Black in their mtDNA. These Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula.”

They are talking about haplogroup L. You can see that in my Map of Black People:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/10/10/the-map-of-black-people/

Some of that slops over into Europe, especially southern Spain and Portugal, once ruled by Africa, which today is 7.4%% L.

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on Fri Oct 16th 2015 at 01:15:09 Jess Miller

If anyone here, already got their results from Ancestry or FamilyTree, I would recommend to download your “raw data” from those web sites and upload it for free at Gedmatch dot com. You will be amazed !!, it has a bunch of free tools and programs that will analyze your DNA and compare it to other populations around the world. It is free.

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on Thu Nov 12th 2015 at 07:20:39 The Koh-i-Noor diamond and why British Historians must be de-colonised | Media Diversified

[…] people from the African diaspora with no recent white ancestors carry out DNA tests and find a substantial proportion of European DNA. It’s on our birth certificates even, as our original surnames have been […]

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on Mon Feb 1st 2016 at 21:05:20 theladyonthelake

Reblogged this on theladyonthelake's Blog and commented:
Just found today that 21% of my DNA is from Cameroon

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on Wed Mar 16th 2016 at 11:28:05 Stan Orr

I have one question: if the average black American is 19% white wouldn’t make sense to say the average white American should be 5-19% black? This isn’t a statistical response just logical. What I’m seeing is staged results from these DNA factories. They know in advance the ethnicity of the victim and craft the results within their pre-determined ethnic parameters. I recommend that everyone do their own research on their families from testimonial and documentary evidence. I have native American ancestry through at least 3 grandparents the fourth I wasn’t able to determine but its more likely than the other 3. In the south blacks and native Americans inter-married frequently. I’ve never seen a testimony of a white person that receive their results that shows significant African ancestry. Its always 1 or 2% from North Africa. However, the black person is 19% Western European.

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on Wed Apr 6th 2016 at 00:08:15 Jeff White

@Jess Miller
Modern ancestry DNA testing and mapping does not use terms such as “Caucasoid”, “Negroid”, “Mongoloid”, white, black, brown, yellow, or red. Those terms were invented when we knew NOTHING about biology and genetics. Instead, modern ancestry DNA testing and mapping uses terms such as “genetic group”.
The “Africa North” genetic group is included in the Africa zone and NOT in the Europe zone. The “Middle East” genetic group along with the “Caucasus” group is in the Asia West zone. The “Caucasus” group takes its name from the fact that it is partially located in the Caucasus region. Only 15% of the natives of the “Africa North” group have a genetic contribution from the “Middle East” group (which includes the Arabian peninsula). The Arabs may have conquered North Africa, converted it to Islam and forced it to adopt the Arabic language, however the “Africa North” group forms a distinct genetic group from the “Middle East” group.
On your Ancestry DNA results, click on “Africa North” and it will show you the other regions that are genetically present in the “Africa North” genetic group. You will see for instance that 15% of the natives of the Africa North group have a genetic contribution from the Italy/Greece genetic group or the Iberian Peninsula (Spain/Portugal) genetic group.
The Muslims who conquered the Iberian Peninsula starting in 711 were overwhelmingly from the “Africa North” group and not the “Middle East” Group. After more than 700 years of occupation by the Moors from North Africa, 20% of the natives of the Iberian Peninsula have a genetic contribution from the “Africa North” genetic group.

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on Wed Apr 6th 2016 at 01:57:33 Jeff White

@ Déborah M
This is in response to your three questions about “blacks” in the New World.
The Kingdom of Dahomey in the area that is now known as Togo and Bénin lasted from around 1600 to 1894 and provided European traders with a constant supply of slaves in exchange for goods and firearms. More than 2 million slaves were sent from the Bight of Benin to the New World, and among them were many from Benin and Togo’s major ethnic groups. The slave trade was the kingdom’s main source of revenue.
Since you are a direct descendant of the Dahomey’s slave sellers, do you feel any repentance for having sent them to the rape that you talked about?
You said that “Near the Door of No Return, there’s a kind of “hut/house” where Voodoo priests regularly pray and ask for forgiveness from the Africans (and their descendents) who went unwillingly to the New World.” I wonder what vodoo priests an priestesses in Haiti think about that? Likewise for Macumba in Brazil and Santeria in Cuba and Porto Rico.

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on Fri May 20th 2016 at 14:36:56 big al

just because Italians are dark does not mean they have African gene this is from many yrs ago where their skin got adjusted to the climate eg. Greeks Spanish on and on I have read extensively into this

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on Fri May 20th 2016 at 14:41:26 big al

I took a dna test I’m 38 percent Italian the rest is small percentages of Irish French German going back also Nordic with an overall of 99.8 percent northern European also the gene map traced my relatives travels no where going back 50000 yrs was any ever in Africa it was all north Europe

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on Fri May 20th 2016 at 14:51:24 Herneith

@Big Al:

That’s one long run-on sentence! As for your Nordic blood? You wish!

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on Sun May 29th 2016 at 14:25:03 Herneith

‘The Great Migration and African-American Genomic Diversity’

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059#pgen-1006059-g001

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on Sun May 29th 2016 at 14:27:02 Herneith

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/science/african-american-dna.html?_r=0

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on Sun May 29th 2016 at 15:09:32 Afrofem

@Herneith

Thanks for posting the ‘The Great Migration and African-American Genomic Diversity’ study.

The higher levels of Native American admixture in Louisiana and the Northeast corresponded to historical anecdotes in books like Black Jacks African American Seamen in the Age of Sail by W. Jeffrey Bolster.

An abstract of the book can be found here:
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674076273

So much hidden history uncovered in this book.

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on Mon May 30th 2016 at 13:34:31 Herneith

Thanks! There is nothing hidden except in one’s mind if you do not seek knowledge out. This is one of the reasons I come to a blog to get links and other information in which to enhance my knowledge and understanding of the world and history in general.

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on Mon May 30th 2016 at 16:29:04 Afrofem

@ Herneith

Good points. Same here….

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on Mon May 30th 2016 at 16:38:58 Herneith

I also enjoy the different prospectives regardless if whether I see eye to eye with them, I am not a bobble head doll. I especially enjoy the white supremacist commentators! You learn from everyone dear! Love it!

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on Sun Jul 3rd 2016 at 21:56:47 Outtax

I don’t know why 100% african dna is not listed here..

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on Sat Nov 26th 2016 at 05:20:08 Kc

Totally untrue about straighter hair in African Americans coming from whites. African Americans that have a high percentage of white, but no Native American ancestry do not have straighter hair than African Americans with at least 5%Native American Ancestry. Even that small percentage of Native mingled with some white, produces much straighter hair than just Black and White heritage. Ancestryingled

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on Mon Jan 9th 2017 at 11:44:08 abagond

Update: Looking up the numbers at National Geographic now, their groupings and numbers are considerably different: 92% African and 7% European for Blacks in the south-western US.

More;
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

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on Mon Jul 24th 2017 at 22:50:10 Lisa W. Rosenberg

FYI, the “White” in multiracial American Blacks sometimes comes from a parent. I am 56% European. 45% European Jewish with a trace of Iberian (6%) from Mom. 44% African from my father and 5% Irish, which is from my father’s side, That would either be from rape or coupling between Irish indentured servants and African slaves. (latter is unlikely.)

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on Sat Aug 12th 2017 at 20:01:58 Jessica

Interesting stuff here. I did a DNA test for MyHeritage this summer and I was really, really shocked by what I learned. But, I was also pretty happy because it confirmed what others thought about me all along. Being that I am a biracial woman with a black mom and white father (who’s more than likely part Jewish), I get confused for a lot of things.

My results were:
56.1% European (19.4% Iberian, 19.1% Ashkenazi Jewish, and 17.6% Scandinavian) 42% Sub-Saharan African (25.8% Nigerian, 10.4% Sierra Leonean and 5.8% Kenyan) 1.1% South Asian and 0.8% Middle Eastern. I was pretty shocked about the South Asian part, but concluded that a 4th great grandparent had to be over 2/3rds of it. If you research East Africa and South Asia, you’ll find out some interesting stuff. For instance, India did trade with East Africa even before the Portuguese started getting slaves from there. From what I read it was a business deal more than anything else. They established ports between East Africa, India and present day Indonesia. So, that’s one theory as to how I got South Asian dna. Another theory is perhaps an Indian indentured servant mated with an African slave in the Caribbean.

I think the reason why I have no English ancestry may have to do with me having East African DNA. As I mentioned already, the Portuguese got slaves from East Africa, but since my Iberian ancestry is a little high, I’m assuming it came from both sides of my family. The Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry most likely came from my dad based on the region that was high lighted, which was Eastern Europe. My paternal grandfather probably has a little over 3/4s Jewish blood meaning that one of his parents could’ve been half Jewish. Contrary to what my dad wanted to think, I have no Jewish ancestry from Africa or the Middle East. According to MyHeritageDNA, if you had any Jewish ancestry from Africa, it’ll be labeled as Sephardic or Ethiopian Jewish.

Judging by my results, it’s possible my mom had about 84% Sub-Saharan African. Again, the South Asian probably came from her side of the family. Middle Eastern could’ve came from either side. While I did come out pretty pale as a child, the features from my black half began to show as I got older. My mom was also kind of dark. Some doctors didn’t even believe I was her daughter at first. My skin started to change when I was about three months old if you were to look at my baby pictures.

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on Sat Feb 3rd 2018 at 06:51:06 AJ

Jess Miller: “people from North Africa are light skin, Caucasoid. The Berbers are blond hair, blue eyes.” say what!??? Since when!? Also indentured servants were not always just Irish, poor English, Scottish and others could be also. Very unlikely they would mix with enslaved Africans either as they worked under very different laws and conditions as they were not chattel slaves. Often indentured servants at the end of their indenture worked as overseers or some other kind of role that supported the owners. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html

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on Sat Feb 3rd 2018 at 07:01:27 AJ

Forgot to add, you don’t inherit a clear cut 50% of your DNA from, for example, a black mother and 50% from a white father, you may inherit more of the African genes than your sibling, meaning your DNA test would come up as much more African than theirs. Or say you had a Jewish grandmother, that wouldn’t necessarily show up as you having 25% Jewish DNA.

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on Sat Feb 3rd 2018 at 17:10:36 gro jo

16% James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA and white supremacist or Negrophobe.

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on Sat Feb 3rd 2018 at 18:48:09 Afrofem

@ AJ

“Very unlikely they would mix with enslaved Africans either as they worked under very different laws and conditions as they were not chattel slaves.”

If that were true the Maryland colonial legislature and other colonial legislative bodies would not have passed such restrictive laws and gone out of their way to punish European females (whether servant or free) who consorted with African males. Those colonial laws became more and more punitive as the 1600s passed into the 1700s.

The Maryland State Archives outlines the one provision of those laws passed in 1664:

“To discourage “dives freeborne English women” who, “forgettfull of their free Condicion and to the disgrace of our Nation”, married slaves, thus inconveniencing courts and masters with legal debates over the status of the offspring, any free woman so marrying after the act’s passage was to serve her husband’s master during her husband’s lifetime.

To further discourage such marriages, the children of matches contracted after the act’s passage were to be “Slaves as their fathers were.” The children of such marriages contracted before the act’s passage were to serve their parents’ masters until they reached the age of thirty-one.”

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/speccol/sc5300/sc5348/html/chap3.html

In modern English, the law states its purpose as: to discourage various free English (European/White) women, who ignore their free condition and disgrace society, from marrying African (Black) slaves. Those marriages burden the courts and the masters with legal claims by the bi-racial children of those unions. After this becomes law, any English (or other European descent/White) woman who marries a (African) slave also becomes a slave for life.

The bi-racial children of those marriages after the law’s passage inherit their African father’s slave status. Bi-racial children born before the law’s passage still must serve their parent’s masters until the age of 31.

In short, AJ, humans of various backgrounds mixed pretty freely in Colonial America until the profit motive and increasing anti-Black racism reared their ugly heads. They worked, played, drank, ate, fought and loved one another.

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on Fri Feb 25th 2022 at 09:42:13 Paul Kruger

Have you ever considered that being part-White makes life easier for American blacks? It makes them look less different than full Africans (the fact that American blacks are mixed is blindingly to anyone who’s ever spent any significant time in Africa), and is likely a big part of the reason the average black IQ is higher in America than it is in Africa. Also, most black leaders (Martin King, Walter Sisulu, Malcolm X, Frederick Douglass, possibly even Harriet Tubman had a White grandpa) had recent White ancestry. The American One-Drop Rule meant that mixed blacks (who otherwise would have become their own group, see South Africa or Brazil) used their higher social status (often their White father freed them and/or gave them some money and an education) to uplift their more purely African brethren.

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