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Boko Haram

boko-haram-flagJama’atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda’awati wal-Jihad (2002- ), the People Committed to the Propagation of the Prophet’s Teachings and Jihad, is better known by its Hausa nickname, Boko Haram. “Haram” means forbidden, “Boko” means fake – or Western education. Boko Haram wants to overthrow the Nigerian government and set up Muslim rule.

In 2014 it became world infamous when it kidnapped over 200 schoolgirls in Chibok, a town in the north-eastern state of Borno. It threatens to sell them as brides for $12 apiece. That is a war crime according to the United Nations – and an outrage that went viral worldwide on the Internet under the Twitter hashtag #BringBackOurGirls.

554-Michelle-BringBackOurGirls

Boko Haram probably took the girls to the vast Sambisa forest or the caves of the Gwosa mountains – or maybe even across the border into Cameroon.

Most high schools in Borno had been closed for fear of an attack. The Chibok boarding school had opened briefly for university entrance exams.

Negotiation is probably the only way to get them back safely in short order – but that would make future kidnappings more likely.

53-nigerian-girls-who-escaped

Four of the 53 Chibok schoolgirls who escaped the Boko Haram raid. (AP Photo/Haruna Umar, File)

Boko Haram kills not just policemen and soldiers but townspeople it sees as siding with them. On May 5th, for example, it laid waste to Gamboru Ngala, killing over 300, a tenth of the town, leaving shops and houses burning and bodies lying in the street. In Yobe last July it lined up about 40 schoolboys in their dorms and shot them dead. Last month in Abuja, the capital, it set off a bomb at a bus station, killing at least 70. It attacks churches, schools and restaurants. They have killed 4,000 in five years.

boko-haram-map-of-attacks

red = the main states where Boko Haram operates
orange = other states where Boko Haram operates

Government forces are little better: they have raped, tortured, imprisoned, killed and massacred with seemingly little regard for innocence or rule of law.

Sectarian violence: Even apart from the government, Boko Haram and the like-minded Ansaru, thousands more have died in violence between Christian and Muslims.

The violence is the worst the country has seen since the civil war in the 1960s.

And now add the US to the mix, which has offered help, fresh from its failed fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan and its drone war in Pakistan. The US already has a drone base and 100 men in neighbouring Niger. It is already in the region looking for Joseph Kony (#Kony2102).

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In the 1800s northern Nigeria was ruled by the Sokoto caliphate, part of a chain of Muslim states along the south-western edge of the Sahara founded by the Fulani jihad. It spread Islam to the masses. Muslim schools were an important part of the jihad.

Opposition to Western education in the north goes back to 1903 when the British took control. Boko Haram started in 2002 as a mosque and a Muslim school. It did not turn violent till 2009.

Boko Haram is against Muslims taking part in Western society – not just receiving a Western education, but even wearing Western clothes or voting. It sees the Nigerian state as run by non-believers, even when it has a Muslim president. Nigeria is 49% Muslim and 49% Christian.

Source: mainly The Economist, BBC, Chimamanda Adichie, Teju Cole.

See also:

719 Responses

  1. BLACK AFRICANS MUST ONE DAY DAY REMOVE , CLEANSE , ERADICATE,
    ELIMINATE ,AND COMPLETELY DESTROY ALL WESTERN AND ISLAMIC
    RELIGIONS AND INFLUENCE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CONTINENT . THEY MUST ALL RETURN TO THEIR ORIGINAL SPIRITUAL WORSHIP SYSTEMS BECAUSE AS MALCOLM X USED TO SAY – ” ONLY A FOOL WOULD ALLOW HIS ENEMY TO TEACH HIS CHILDREN ” . FROM AFRICA’S
    SON STEVE BANTU BIKO, HIS WORDS ” IF OUR PEOPLE CONTINUE TO
    EMULATE THE EUROPEAN AND THE ARAB , WE WILL NEVER BE FREE ” .

    Liked by 1 person


  2. this is absolutly disgusting

    to the punk holding up the sign about how many children Obama has killed, is a hypocryte of the highest order since radicle Islamic violence has killed more Islamic children than anyone else in this last decade

    the truth is, most people who practice Islam are totaly against this radicle form of fundimentalist violent people who think they are practicing Islam but have warped it…and far more people of Islam are colaborating with the USA to eradicate this fundamentalist relgious extremism from forcing its ideologies on the rest of the people who dont want it

    fundamentalist religious extremism of all faiths should be confronted , scrutinised , and seen for the pariah on society it represents

    these violent confrontations are going on in various countries in Africa,kenya, Mali, Sudan etc kudos to anyone there willing to stand up to this scum

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  3. I was hoping you would do a post on this. It needs to get out there and the word needs to be spread.

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  4. B.R.

    The sad part is these type scum actually have some backing from morons in the states. There was a discuss about this on face book and one man/woman had the nerve to start talking about black abortion instead of these girls being kidnapped. As I read more I notice the pattern of deflection that seeks to take attention away from the problem and the situation these young girls face.

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  5. I wish you had wrote this when the 40 boys were killed because this group has been terrorizing Nigeria for quite awhile but better late than never.

    Also, my biggest complaint is why the American government is NOW taking interest in this considering it happened months ago…and of course, I’m being facetious because I already know the answer.

    Nigeria is not a “strategic” partner nor does it serve America’s interesst (like the Ukraine), so even though everyone knew about he kidnapping, there was no interest to interfere.

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  6. I was listening to MSNBC and in the news story about the Nigerian girls the commentator said that the government had knowledge of this for a long time and yet they didn’t take action, it appears the government has failed these young women. They are illogical and extreme. How can one compromise with this kind of extreme and misguided ideology.

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  7. Hmm. 1000s of women and girls have been murdered in Guatemala, the toll or decapitated female bodies rises, often little girls, probably on a weekly basis, and the killers are rarely brought to justice, but it doesn’t serve US interests, and we know why there, too.

    Instead of being so quick to label detractors “scum”, the US’s interest in “saving” a bit of Africa (again) may bring no good if the solution is gathering enough support to send more drones to Nigeria.
    Because Africans NEED the intervention of the USA, and the pormise of more neo-imperialism down the line?

    Right now, it seems the NIgerians hold their government accountable — there are unprecedented mass protests going on in that country and I’ve even heard Nigerians saying that they have waited for this moment for the populace to confront their leaders’ corruptions. They don’t need sentimentality, or another Kony2012, where Westerners, of any race and colour — were seduced by the rhetoric of hegemonic US power.

    So why doesn’t the US leave that country to maximise on the public outcry and the momentum its people has mobilized without the need for the US to swoop down and play Saviour?

    http://www.compareafrique.com/dear-americans-hashtags-wont-bringbackourgirls-might-actually-making-things-worse/

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  8. From that link:

    Simple question. Are you Nigerian? Do you have constitutional rights accorded to Nigerians to participate in their democratic process?
    If not, I have news you. You can’t do anything about the girls missing in Nigeria. You can’t.
    Your insistence on urging American power, specifically American military power, to address this issue will ultimately hurt the people of Nigeria.

    It heartens me that you’ve taken up the mantle of spreading “awareness” about the 200+ girls who were abducted from their school in Chibok; it heartens me that you’ve heard the cries of mothers and fathers who go yet another day without their child. It’s nice that you care.

    Here’s the thing though, when you pressure Western powers, particularly the American government to get involved in African affairs and when you champion military intervention, you become part of a much larger problem. You become a complicit participant in a military expansionist agenda on the continent of Africa….

    Jumoke Balogun

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  9. Usually the boys were killed–shot, throat cut, or burned alive. The girls were let go with a warning. The world was silent. Ditto for the boys conscripted as child soldiers. Boko Haram got the message: the media, NGOs, gov’ts, the world, didn’t give a tinker’s dam about the boys. So they upped the ante and went after the girls.

    There is an obvious gender component to the international reaction, a veritable elephant in the room taking a huge dump. Here’s a clue: it’s not about the nations of the world not caring about women and girls.

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  10. So the name boko-haram means Western and non Islamic education is a sin. Again with this type of extremist ideology is just so dangerous. I see the Pakistani young lady is also speaking out against this violence against these young women.

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  11. From the article:
    “Humanitarian Intervention” in Nigeria: Is the Boko Haram Insurgency Another CIA Covert Operation?

    …reports provided by Wikileaks which identified the US embassy in Nigeria as a forward operating base for wide and far reaching acts of subversion against Nigeria…

    … the US embassy’s subversive activities in Nigeria fits into the long term US government’s well camouflaged policy of containment against Nigeria the ultimate goal of which is to eliminate Nigeria as a potential strategic rival to the US in the African continent….

    …{this is retribution against} Nigeria’s role in helping to liberate the southern African countries in the 70’s and 80’s in clear opposition and defiance to the interests of the United States and its western allies which resulted in a setback for Western initiatives in Africa at the time….

    Years, later the CIA while tactically taking advantage of growing sectarian violence in Nigeria, recruited jobless Islamic extremist through Muslim and other traditional leaders offering training indirectly to the group by use of foreign based terror groups. A detailed analysis is done below…

    … actualization of this plan that the US strategic planners on Nigeria have devised a three stage plan of implementation.

    Stage 1: Pakistanizing Nigeria….

    Stage 2: Internationalizing the Crisis….

    Stage 3: the Great Carve out under UN Mandate…

    ….Following worldwide outrage at the scale of carnage resulting from all out war among various sections of Nigeria secretly induced by the United States and its allies, the stage will now shift to the United Nations where debates will take place on how the world body will work to resolve the crisis.

    There will be proposals first for an international peace keeping force to intervene and separate the warring groups and or for a UN mandate for various parts of Nigeria to come under mandated occupying powers. Of course behind the scenes the US and its allies would have secretly worked out which areas of Nigeria to occupy guided as it were by naked economic interests…

    Full article:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/responsibilty-to-protect-is-nigerias-boko-haram-insurgency-another-cia-covert-operation-wikileaks/5381225

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  12. Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
    Read the comments, read the comments…

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  13. Thank you Bulanik!

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  14. I think that last link from Bulanik has definitely clarified in detail what this seemingly militant Black Islamist terrorist group is all about. Or should I say not about.

    Boko Haram are no more a legitimate Islamist terrorist group than Al-Qaeda are. Both are sourced and funded indirectly by the US (CIA)

    It should also be clear there is an agenda here and it centers around (as usual) the hegemony of the US.

    It seems like we are seeing the same thing all over again…Militant Islamists reeking terror in a country. But this time in Africa – Nigeria. Now the US and UK are offering to help go in and rescue over 200+ African school girls from these Black Terrorists. – Such is the curse of Islam!

    But wait…? How is it that a wealthy and military resourced country like Nigeria can sit back and be totally incapable of doing anything to prevent such a crime from happening or rescue over 200 missing school girls abducted in its own country?

    Surely this speaks to the collusion, corruption of the Nigerian government and almost certain Western backed involvement in staging this false terrorist event? (Problem-Reaction-Solution)

    Here is a much fuller account of what actually happened. Which expalins why the corrupt Nigerian government is highly culpable in its actions or inaction:

    http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/updates-nigerian-schoolgirls-kidnapped-276-still-missing/

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  15. How do we prevent good intentions from feeding the imperial interests of US government?…..
    (about $3.26billion)spending on Nigeria armed forces every year.
    Does it make common sense.Nigeria that champion UN peace keeping in Sudan,Lebanon ,Congo etc etc,can’t storm a forest to find her citizens?
    Does it make common sense.Nigeria that champion ECOMOG into Liberia and Sierra Leon successfully, can’t storm a forest to find her citizens?
    Somalia, without any govt. since 1991, has foreigners dumping nuclear waste in their ocean & steal $300,000,000 of fish yearly.
    Hundreds of thousands of women raped in Congo in the past decade by mercenaries protecting western interests.
    In the words of the great Kwame Ture:
    “We cannot have the oppressors telling the oppressed how to rid themselves of the oppressor.”

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  16. Just unbeleivable the wanting to beleive conspiracy theory bs to justify looking at this incident through wrong sided binoculars smelling only American hemmoroids…do yourselves a favor and come up for some reality perspective air…

    There are so many weak holes in that article its ridículous …Wikipédia leakws ? You mean from ass-uange , snowjob and wo-manning ? Give me a an effing break…

    In this article they are ready to blame the USA for giving money to Saudi Arabia, who then gave money to Boko Harem..as though America tells Saudi Arabia what to do with the money…as though America invented Al Quaeda , which I debunked on here…ridículous logic

    This article is so ridículous they claim that cia operatives dosed Islamic terrorists with LCD so they would forget who told them to do it???

    My god LSD doesnt make you forget…how absolutly bogus do you want to get….descend into your absolute fairy tales..Im sure they can link what is happening in Syria all to the CIA , also…or the Kenya shopping mall bombing,

    They said all this stuff about France coming in Mali…just didnt happen

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  17. @Bulanik
    Thanks for that link! You really nailed it! I think the masses don’t want to see the reality of how the world really operates. They want to bury their heads in the sand. The TRUTH always comes out in the end. We can no longer believing the deception the mainstream media feeds us. It’s time to get the hell out of the matrix! Ignorance is NOT bliss.

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  18. Bulanik

    Thank you for adding that article. It gave me a fresh view on the situation.

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  19. Thank you for your link as well kwamla.

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  20. Don’t you love how if we do nothing its a sign of how much we are materialistic, racist jack-wagons that can’t relate to black people or foreigners.

    But if we do something its “oh come on US, why all the imperialistic, colonization etc….”?

    Though no point in deluding ourselves that the government is only now doing something about it besides public out cry.

    And BR’s got a point; sometimes it seems like people have to go pretty far out of their way to justify their hate or antagonism against something.

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  21. V-4

    I love your missing avatar. Why the sudden need to remove it?

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  22. The CIA is never the end of anything, it’s just the beginning. Things always go higher… much higher.

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  23. @Sharina

    Haven’t done anything myself. So the difference is probably some aspect of how the site is.

    Though are you sure your thinking of mine…..because I don’t think I’ve ever did anything to get an avatar or get rid of one.

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  24. Sorry. I was thinking of v8. Lol

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  25. “Don’t you love how if we do nothing its a sign of how much we are materialistic, racist jack-wagons that can’t relate to black people or foreigners.”—‘I am going to be honest and say this was my feelings upon reading the article posted by bulanik. Kind of the d*mned if you do d*mned if you don’t. Even now I am a bit confused about it, but what I know for sure is….

    1. I don’t live there and I can fully understand the situation to the degree they can.

    2. U.S. interference=personal interest.

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  26. If the U.S. is there, or says it will help, most likely it will not make anything better, or it will make things worse. Besides,

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  27. @ Kwamla

    Both BR and V-4 have a point. It seems as though Obama/the US would be damned in your eyes no matter what it does.

    The conspiracy theory about B-H being an extension of the CIA is ridiculous. Where is your evidence? Or is it just a gut feeling?

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  28. That can should be can’t. Argh

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  29. Down where I live, every 5 weeks , in the face of a failing economy , the legacy of Hugo Chavez , Venezuelan president ,Nicholas Maduro , Chavez protege, blames the cia for something , and kicks some American diplomat out…this is his parties diversionary tactic to hide their failures…which are enormous in that oil rich country…

    On this blog, relating to the Ucraine situation, suposed information was brought in as though the cia orchestrated the ousting of the then president, but who is doing the photo opp in Crimea , is Putin…which makes me ask , who really is doing the orchestration…?

    This wiki leaks informed article is just laced with paranoid , extremly speculative , fairy tail like descriptions…it borders on ridiculous…

    Like the LSD discription..who wrote that obviously has no idea of the properties of LSD , its fairy tail writing based on sensationalist ideas of what LSD can do. Anybody here ever did LSD ? You do not go into black outs , not remembering…they call it tripping because its like going on a voyage you wont forget

    The cia has always had contacts in the world of Islam…they paint it as though any contact with individuals of Islam in Nigéria , were these Boko Harém people, or radicle Islamic people..There are huge amounts of people of Islam in Nigéria who hate these radicle religous extremists , and that is the way throughout the world now, huge amounts of practicioners of Islam , are fighting against these extremists also

    They are the David Koerches , Timithy McVeighs, and Olympic bombers ,in the world of Islam

    The bungaling cia has been around meddling since the early fifties, but so have the other players…who colaborated with the cia to oust the Primeir of Iran to be replaced by the dictator Shah , was the religious leaders in power now in Iran, lead by the late Khoemanie , not spelled correctly…who was at the Bogatsu in Colombia , the same time the early cia was, was Fidel Castro…

    That article inspired by wiki leaks, is full of sensationalist speculation , and manipulated half facts…

    But , you know , Im not going to come in here repeating myself debunking paranoia and just wrong information, like who invented Al Quaeda , Im going to sit back and see how this plays out

    That article claims the USA has some ulterior motive to devide Nigéria up , to bust its economy up…lets just see if this plays out…its that simple, or will it end up as some paranoid sensationalist clap trap meant to take the attention off of the absolute viscious acts of some radicle extremists, echoing other viscious acts in Kenya, Mali and Sudan etc

    My gosh , if the cia and America were really after Nigerian recources, the Delta is where the trouble filled oil is

    This is really about a small group of religous fanatics , I hate religous fanatics of all faiths

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  30. @ Kush Prince

    I think the masses don’t want to see the reality of how the world really operates…

    ..and even if it is seen, or found, it might be doubted, or smeared as a ridiculous fantasy by those who are far, far more sensible than you or me could ever be. 😀

    Just recently, the husband of a friend said about Boko Haram:
    “this wouldn’t be first time the US miltary has had a hand in trafficked girls like this, remember Bosnia & Herzegovina? This was the only place this happened in recent years, y’know…”

    He also put me in mind of the The Shock Doctrine, which are “free market policies ..in some countries that employ a deliberate strategy to exploit crises by pushing through controversial, exploitative policies while citizens were too busy emotionally and physically reeling from disasters or upheavals to create an effective resistance. It is implied that some man-made crises, such as the Iraq war, may have been created with the intention of pushing through these unpopular reforms in their wake.”

    Key to this is the notion of an endless war against an undefined notion of evil.

    It’s a pretty timeless strategy, but in modern times it uses different techniques. Naomi Klein’s research into it found that it’s modern roots are in early CIA torture and shock methods. Fairly interesting: she summarises some of the ideas here in this interview: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9CM_J00bw)

    http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

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  31. Correction This was NOT the only place this happened in recent years, y’know….”

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  32. Kush, contd

    I don’t know what Nigerian-Americans in the US are saying, but from the sound of the UK/Ireland based Nigerians that I’ve listened to (mentioned in my earlier comment), it seems BH has been around for at least a decade.
    As an insurgent group (I’ve not heard any Nigerian actually call them “terrorist”), they have been getting more skilled in their killing, and more radical in their operations, increasing the blight over the last 4 years, years that have seen hundreds of casualities, injuries, kidnaps in the North of country. So, the school girl abductions is the latest tragedy that have caused Nigerians to fume and cry at their government’s inaction and dishonesty.
    The general intention of any Nigeria-based campaign to return the children is NOT to “rally” a foreign govt to infiltrate their own. Instead they want their own Nigerian govt to be confronted by intense national AND international pressure to find and return the chldren.

    What parallel has been drawn is with another African country, Algeria.
    In the 1990s there were incidents pretty similar to what has been going in Nigeria. Algeria has a far smaller population and the atrocities were much bigger in size, but the parallel still stand. In the case of BH, there was the GIA, Groupe Islamique Armé / Armed Islamic Group: another allegedly: “Islamist organisation that wants to overthrow the Algerian government and replace it with an Islamic state”.
    I say allegedly, because later research, mostly in French, not just the one given below, seems to point to work of Algeria’s own state policy colluding with foreign government. (Discussed about half way down: http://newint.org/features/2009/10/01/blowback-extended-version/)

    According to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, as in Algeria, the attacks and killings in Nigeria also occurred in close proximity to army barracks, with the soldiers reported doing nothing to stop them. It’s even alleged Nigeria’s ruling political party, PDP, is behind the abductions and apparent govt “inaction”…

    ..When Nigeria’s former head of state security, NSA Andrew Owoye-Azazi had revealed that terror in the nation as not accidental but was sponsored and supported by top ruling-party, PDP politicians, he was fired, and killed in a helicopter crash later that year. Nigeria is today in a very precarious situation as terror increases across the nation, especially its northern parts. More than 21,000 people have died of the violence since Jonathan came into power. Not a single sponsor of terror has been prosecuted by this government.

    http://www.dailytrust.info/opinion/21957-national-security-and-challenges-before-military

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  33. regarding cia fomentation, one only need to look, again to the MO of proxy military intervention, at vietnam (that started with military advisors), the mujahideen in afghanistan, the current mess in syria, etc etc.
    the higher order ‘illuminati’ tangent is not my speciality, but cia influence could provide a clue. nigeria has been having problems with oil (they do have a lot) pipeline disrupions, kidnapping of foreign oil workers, and attacks on work camps for afaik the last 20 some years.

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  34. Witness the American media doing what it does best folks. Why are the thousands of people killed in sectarian violence a footnote, while 200 girls who were kidnapped, but likely alive and married off, worthy of all this attention? It’s because it is a feminist talking point. Because the authorities were off looking for Boko Haram to get back those girls, they left a village unguarded and 300+ people were slaughtered (its even mentioned in Abagond’s post). Yet, those 300 deaths and the many many others aren’t a good soudbite. “Bring back our girls” is (would Ms. Obama use the word “our” if the girls were from Kazakhstan?). It’s pure manipulation. The media wants you to focus on misogyny, because it is worse than murder apparently.

    For once, I kind of agree with Bulanik. Let Nigeria sort out its own stuff. U.S. should stay out. Also, maybe just cut out all Western intervention in Africa. It’s demeaning. UN now estimates that, at current rates, Africa’s population will quadruple to 4 billion by the end of the century. This is also largely due to the West’s paternalism and intervention. Let Africa work out a stable population itself. Let Africa police, feed, clothe and educate itself. Get rid of the semi-colonialism and get rid of the brain drain emigration that is siphoning off many of Africa’s greatest minds.

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  35. Why is the Islamic world still so socially and intellectually backward? Smh… people can say this just a cultural thing or that this is only a violent minority of Islam, but fundamentally their religion is what is stubbornly allowing this culture to continue.

    Religion impedes human progress and the Abrahamic ones (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are the worst.

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  36. From a humanitarian perspective all i can say is i hope those girls are brought back safe and unharmed. I feel bad for the parents of the girls.

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  37. @ Bulanik

    As usual some great investigative and detective work !!!

    To all those who are questioning CIA (US) involvement in this affair as some sort of BS conspiracy theory. Read the links and copious information generously provided here OR continue to bathe in your own self induced ignorance. There are many things taking place in this world today which have been directly or indirectly set up by controlling powers and the US is the biggest controlling military player on the planet today. Where and to who do you think the $Trillions of dollars it spends annually on its military budget is going?

    @B.R

    Its high time you you began investigating the REAL extent and depth of US involvement in the affairs of EVERY country on this planet. Not saying there are no other players here. But if you use the size of its military budget as a guide compared to other countries you obtain a more realistic sense of its dominance and influence.

    Now if only that spending was on obtaining world peace,, world justice and an end to wars and poverty it could be achieved before the start of the next fiscal quarter…

    Such is the denied and brainwashed reality of the mass US media and its citizens.

    Oh…and about Al-Qaeda…

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  38. My last comment on this subject, I can’t imagine the psychological damage this horrific ordeal has on these young girls. This is truly sad and heartbreaking.

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  39. @ The Pragmatist

    An intellectually and socially backward world? Really, really?
    That is quite a generalisation.

    I am not sure if I would describe Kuala Lumpur, or the Muslims of Malaysia like that. My impression of Kuala Lumpur is that it’s a really creative and innovative place to be.

    I also hear that Dakar, in Senegal, remains one of the most popular places for foreign tourists who visit West Africa, but I doubt this is due to the intellectual and social backwardness of that nation…

    Dubai is also rather lush. The sun is intensely hot there, but it can be a very pleasant place to visit or work. Really elegant. There’s so much to see: the architecture is amazing. The Palm Island development is a breathtaking new structure:

    Turkey, another part of an allegedly intellectually and socially backward world, has “hundreds of television channels, thousands of local and national radio stations, several dozen newspapers, a productive and profitable national cinema and a rapid growth of broadband internet use all make up a very vibrant media industry…”
    http://www.iamcr.org/medindturkey

    There are many more examples from this world you talk about…

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  40. Finally a post that is about something productive and interesting! From what I have been reading and hearing, Boko Haram is a group of Nigerian Islamic terrorists that kidnap young Nigerian girls and sell them into sex slavery. Boko Haram stands for Western Education is evil. So far, Boko Haram has kidnapped over 200 young Nigerian girls. It is so sad because as a young, Black woman, I can see myself in these girls. I really hope that these girls will be found safe and sound but we can’t be assured of that.

    This whole situation is just sad to me.

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  41. @ Mary Burrell

    “.. the psychological damage this horrific ordeal has on these young girls. This is truly sad and heartbreaking.”

    It is all this. Right now, I’m not feeling confident of the children’s immediate return. This is as much I yearn for Nigerians to create an effective PRACTICAL solution.

    I asked myself what the writer Chimamanda Adiche has been saying about the situation? and saw this, titled “The President I want”. Perhaps this is what a lot people in Nigeria are thinking and feeling right now?

    Some of my relatives lived for decades in the North, in Kano and Bornu. They spoke fluent Hausa. (One relative taught me, at the age of eight, to count in Hausa.) They made planned visits to Anambra only a few times a year, at Christmas and to attend weddings and funerals. But sometimes, in the wake of violence, they made unplanned visits. I remember the word ‘Maitatsine’ – to my young ears, it had a striking lyricism – and I remember the influx of relatives who had packed a few bags and fled the killings. What struck me about those hasty returns to the East was that my relatives always went back to the North. Until two years ago when my uncle packed up his life of thirty years in Maiduguri and moved to Awka. He was not going back. This time, he felt, was different.

    My uncle’s return illustrates a feeling shared by many Nigerians about Boko Haram: a lack of hope, a lack of confidence in our leadership. We are experiencing what is, apart from the Biafran war, the most violent period in our nation’s existence. Like many Nigerians, I am distressed about the students murdered in their school, about the people whose bodies were spattered in Nyanya, about the girls abducted in Chibok. I am furious that politicians are politicizing what should be a collective Nigerian mourning, a shared Nigerian sadness.

    And I find our president’s actions and non-actions unbelievably surreal.

    I do not want a president who, weeks after girls are abducted from a school and days after brave Nigerians have taken to the streets to protest the abductions, merely announces a fact-finding committee to find the girls.

    I want President Jonathan to be consumed, utterly consumed, by the state of insecurity in Nigeria. I want him to make security a priority, and make it seem like a priority. I want a president consumed by the urgency of now, who rejects the false idea of keeping up appearances while the country is mired in terror and uncertainty. I want President Jonathan to know – and let Nigerians know that he knows – that we are not made safer by soldiers checking the boots of cars, that to shut down Abuja in order to hold a World Economic Forum is proof of just how deeply insecure the country is. We have a big problem, and I want the president to act as if we do. I want the president to slice through the muddle of bureaucracy, the morass of ‘how things are done,’ because Boko Haram is unusual and the response to it cannot be business as usual.

    I want President Jonathan to communicate with the Nigerian people, to realize that leadership has a strong psychological component: in the face of silence or incoherence, people lose faith. I want him to humanize the lost and the missing, to insist that their individual stories be told, to show that every Nigerian life is precious in the eyes of the Nigerian state.

    I want the president to seek new ideas, to act, make decisions, publish the security budget spending, offer incentives, sack people. I want the president to be angrily heartbroken about the murder of so many, to lie sleepless in bed thinking of yet what else can be done, to support and equip the armed forces and the police, but also to insist on humaneness in the midst of terror. I want the president to be equally enraged by soldiers who commit murder, by policemen who beat bomb survivors and mourners. I want the president to stop issuing limp, belated announcements through public officials, to insist on a televised apology from whoever is responsible for lying to Nigerians about the girls having been rescued.

    I want President Jonathan to ignore his opponents, to remember that it is the nature of politics, to refuse to respond with defensiveness or guardedness, and to remember that Nigerians are understandably cynical about their government.

    I want President Jonathan to seek glory and a place in history, instead of longevity in office. I want him to put aside the forthcoming 2015 elections, and focus today on being the kind of leader Nigeria has never had.

    I do not care where the president of Nigeria comes from. Even those Nigerians who focus on ‘where the president is from’ will be won over if they are confronted with good leadership that makes all Nigerians feel included. I have always wanted, as my president, a man or a woman who is intelligent and honest and bold, who is surrounded by truth-telling, competent advisers, whose policies are people-centered, and who wants to lead, who wants to be president, but does not need to – or have to- be president at all costs.

    President Jonathan may not fit that bill, but he can approximate it: by being the leader Nigerians desperately need now.

    http://www.thescoopng.com/exclusive-chimamanda-adichie-president-want/

    Like


  42. @ Mary

    Well, “unharmed” will be relative since they are being systematically raped by their captors.

    http://www.ynaija.com/how-boko-haram-militants-raped-us-slaughter-many-others-escaped-victims-narrate-ordeal/

    Like


  43. @Bulanik
    “..and even if it is seen, or found, it might be doubted, or smeared as a ridiculous fantasy by those who are far, far more sensible than you or me could ever be.”
    You said it!lol I couldn’t agree more!

    “According to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, as in Algeria, the attacks and killings in Nigeria also occurred in close proximity to army barracks, with the soldiers reported doing nothing to stop them. It’s even alleged Nigeria’s ruling political party, PDP, is behind the abductions and apparent govt “inaction”…

    ..When Nigeria’s former head of state security, NSA Andrew Owoye-Azazi had revealed that terror in the nation as not accidental but was sponsored and supported by top ruling-party, PDP politicians, he was fired, and killed in a helicopter crash later that year. Nigeria is today in a very precarious situation as terror increases across the nation, especially its northern parts. More than 21,000 people have died of the violence since Jonathan came into power. Not a single sponsor of terror has been prosecuted by this government.”
    You know what? You’re right! I never made the connection with Algeria. Great catch! I must say you find some great links. I will definitely read that article.

    Like


  44. @Bulanik

    ”It is all this. Right now, I’m not feeling confident of the children’s immediate return. This is as much I yearn for Nigerians to create an effective PRACTICAL solution”

    I agree with you because we can’t be sure if these girls will return safe and alive. I have heard that many of these girls are usually sold into sex slavery and sex trafficking. It is truly sad. Personally I think that the United States and the UN should step in and do something about this situation. However I understand your points about America always stepping into other countries’ situations but in this situation, I do think America and the UN needs to step in and help

    Like


  45. If you are black and you have your head screwed on straight, I would like you to answer these questions.

    Is every black Muslim in Nigeria a member of Boko Haram?

    Is every Northern Nigerian a member of Boko Haram?

    If You find a black man in Northern Nigeria that owns a few guns, does that mean that he is a member of Boko Haram?

    Are all of the members of Boko Haram male?

    If a Muslim woman in Lagos steals some merchandise from a cornerstore, does that mean that she is a member of Boko Haram?

    Are all of Goodluck Jonathan’s political enemies members of Boko Haram?

    If you are a Nigerian that doesn’t want to pay your taxes are you a member of Boko Haram?

    If you are a political activist in Nigeria that protests against Shell and British Petroleum occupation of the coastline, are you a member of Boko Haram?

    Is every human soul that disagrees with the corruption in Nigeria part of Boko Haram?

    Maybe not. Maybe they are a part of Al-Qeada. Think about these things as we witness the witch hunt that is happening right now in Nigeria. Just a few questions to ponder.

    Like


  46. @Biff

    Really Biff “married off”…..you don’t mean repeatedly raped and forced into slavery instead?

    @Bulanik

    Doesn’t Turkey still do honor killings and whatnot?

    Isn’t that why Sibel Kekelli from Game of Thrones can’t go there? She did some porn when she was younger and now would be killed if she stepped foot in Turkey?

    And while the US has done various iffy stuff in its time; if there is nothing to go on but wikipedia reports that don’t know how drugs work and rumor…..that’s not much of a backing for the theory.

    That just shows a serious desire to try and find something, anything even if it has to be made up.

    Feels like the conspiracy theories that went around those school shootings.

    Like


  47. Black people want to be white so let the reaping everywhere continue. Continue in the religions of those who murdered the ancestors and remain committed to their exploitive economic systems in lust for some of the spoil and reap.

    Like


  48. I can’t remember what blog site it was but the film “Half A Yellow Sun” inspired by the book by Cimamanda Adiche is being halted because of the Boko Haram conflict.

    Like


  49. Typo: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie.

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  50. @ King: You are correct in your comment. I agree wrong choice of word. “Unharmed” was me having a brain fart.

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  51. @ V-4

    So, are the opinions of Nigerians and other observers on the continent of Africa no more than “made up stuff” and holey Wikipedia assertions…?

    Then, this somewhat vague reference to “various iffy stuff that that the US has done in its time”. Does that refer to something? What?
    Please say.
    ***

    True, V-4, Turkey DOES have honour killings. There were 200 in 2007, for starters.

    But what does that have to do with the US govt’s hand in Nigeria’s affairs specifically, or other countries generally?

    Did you provide that honour killings thing in Turkey as “proof” — because most people in Turkey’s 75+ million population are Muslim?
    Are you suggesting that because there are honour killings that the the population is intellectually and socially backward, or something like this?
    Please say.

    Turkey has a secular govt, it does not cover up the honour killings and nor is it proud of its record of this. Why? Because it’s a dreadful trend that started about a decade ago and is concentrated in the SE of the country, among the Kurdish population, even the ones that migrate to the cities and towns of the western Turkey.
    Add to that the fact, another: Turkey has a history of imprisoning journalists.
    And another: there is also Turkish pornography, which is made in Turkey with Turks in it and Turks watch it.
    And another: they even have homosexuals.
    There is information about all of these things in Turkey. I’ve even heard people speak about these things in Turkey, and I am just a foreigner without a horse in the race as far as the porn or homosexuals matters go.

    As for “Games of Thrones” (!), frankly, I don’t think it’s watched much in Turkey.
    I also have serious doubts if many have heard of Ms Kilkelli, take an interest or would entertain killing her if she came on holiday…
    However, she has written to the Turkey’s Prime Minister urging him to rethink his policy against dissenters in Opposition politics.
    Has the Turkish govt issued a fatwa against Ms Kilkelli for anything?
    If so, could you provide a link for that because I’d be interested in seeing it.

    http://hbv-awareness.com/turkey-grapples-with-spike-in-honor-killings/
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/03/turkeys-jailed-journalists.html

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  52. V-4, nearly forgot: the Ottoman Turks were responsible for at least 2 genocides in the last 100 years. And they haven’t done a good job of admitting to those internationally.

    Can you think of anything else?

    Like


  53. @ V-4

    Really Biff “married off”…..you don’t mean repeatedly raped and forced into slavery instead?

    One of the funniest things about free speech is that it allows dumb people to open their mouths. I thought biff’s comment was hilarious.

    Like


  54. I appreciate all the love, Kiwi, and glad that I can add some laughter to your day. You really assume all militant muslim blacks don’t even have any kind of morality, huh? Like they would never want to get a wife or four. Still, doesn’t change my point re: thousands of men getting slaughtered is somehow less newsworthy than a couple hundred girls getting kidnapped.

    Like


  55. ^^^

    LOL! Coming from the guy who’s always whining about others putting words in his mouth. Like I was saying: dim, dull, dumb.

    Like


  56. […] See on abagond.wordpress.com […]

    Like


  57. […] "Jama’atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda’awati wal-Jihad(2002- ), the People Committed to the Propagation of the Prophet’s Teachings and Jihad, is better known by its Hausa nickname, Boko Haram. “Haram” means forbidden, “Boko” means fake – or Western education. Boko Haram wants to overthrow the Nigerian government and set up Muslim rule."  […]

    Like


  58. @Bulanik

    If they can’t even get aspects of drugs right that require little to no research….I wouldn’t trust them a whole lot on something that would require any knowledge or effort to get.

    I don’t think TV and homosexuals cancels out a couple hundred honor killings in a year….

    As for Turkish people watching porn while being morally against it; not the first time people have been hypocritical.

    @Biff

    Because they are men; not real “people” that’s an honor reserved for women. People are more used to the idea of men dying, throughout history men’s deaths are pretty much used in protection of women, whether that be cannon fodder in wars, dangerous construction jobs or going up against sabretooth tigers back in the caveman days.

    Like


  59. Well , Kwamla, what do you think I did when I left the USA , to go live in a country severly affected by the cold war , with many people blaming America for all its problems? What a naive comment by you about me .

    In fact, hearing so many negative accuasations about my country forced me to get the history lesson I never would have gotten if I never had travels and lived here…and what a history lesson I got…

    Lessons so profound that I can see through the one sided depictions of someone like Naomi Klein and her shock docterine docus ive seen many times, or Chompskys one sided papers on Colombia, where in it only one paragrsph on farc calls them freedom fighters…these scum thug kidnapping drug smugglars who got Chavez support…these were things you didnt know anything about and yet you call me brain washed…

    What you are missing , or dont want to admit, is what was happening on the other sides that spread the half truths and political agendised crap…I mean its totaly absent from the picture …no referances at all to those far more ominous actions taking place

    Guatemala ? Are we really going to talk about the cold war? Because the numbers of people anialated and eliminated by the other side , were not in the hundreds of thousands , they were in the multi millions…and that ideology is what we were fighting against in the cold war…yes , absolutly horrible mistakes were made , people took advantage of power, people over threw democratic elected presidents, but the realities of what was happening on the other side were so horrible, that people everywhere who oposed it, were willing go to extremes to make sure those ideologies werent going to happen in their neck of the woods

    What makes me especialy angry is how right they were , because the obvious truth when we look back is Marxism failed miserably , and took hundreds of millions of lives with it…all these people died for nothing, since the Soviet Union collapsed, North Korrea is a pariah , China turned authoritarion capatalistic , my gosh, Marx would turn over in its grave , Castro is hurting his people and lying about USA oppresion from the embargo…he can get anything he wants from other countries, and I can dead look you in the eyes and say hades yes, Im very happy Brazil didnt have a sucsessful Che revolution, like he wanted in South America, especialy here in Brazil…just look at Venezuela, an oil rich country aligning with Castro ideology, floundering in its choices, demonstrating exactly why it was worth fighting against that ideology

    So to see referances to Naomi Klein and her one sided look at history, or , anything coming from ass uange or wo manning, or snowjob , excuse me if I greet it with a heavy dose of skeptacism…its from my real life lessons

    You know, snowjob worked under Bush and was fine, I get he is like the whites who go out and buy guns when Obama is in office…its the whitemiddle class version of that…

    Kwamla , did you ever think maybe you should examine you own brain washing?

    Like


  60. @ V-4

    One more thing.
    Could you also tell clarify what you mean by this:

    …sometimes it seems like people have to go pretty far out of their way to justify their hate or antagonism against something.

    Like


  61. @ V-4

    If they can’t even get aspects of drugs right that require little to no research….I wouldn’t trust them a whole lot on something that would require any knowledge or effort to get.

    I don’t think TV and homosexuals cancels out a couple hundred honor killings in a year….

    As for Turkish people watching porn while being morally against it; not the first time people have been hypocritical

    LOL! Haha!
    Sorry, V-4, but you sound more and more desperate to debunk the obvious by clutching at irrelevancies. You are also twisting things around to make your comments something far more meaningful than they were!

    By latching onto details it’s the most convenient way for you to throw the baby out with bathwater.

    It was in disbelief at your ignorance that I made those comments about Turkey.
    And now you’ve simply confirmed that. Amazing.

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  62. @V-4

    Also, my remarks about homosexuals weren’t made in an effort to “cancel out” anything. That’s just you how YOU think.

    Additionally, I didn’t say “Turkish people watching porn while being morally against it”. That’s you putting words into my mouth.

    I’d ask you not to do that.
    I can understand that you are looking for ways to smear my commentary, but I’d appreciate if you didn’t use this rather stale method to do so…

    Like


  63. The USA is damed if it does or or damed if it doesnt do anything in Nigéria..

    Kwamla your questions about Islam in Nigeria and Boko Harem are correct, but who here is saying all muslims in Nigeria are Boko Harém? Im sure not…I recognise them as the religous fanatic extremists they are, the David Koerches , the Timithy McVeighs , the Olympic bomber and the killers of abortíon doctors in America, of Nigeria …there are many Nigerian women with head scarfs protesting against them also

    And as far as Im personaly concerned, I dont care if the USA is involved in solving this problem or not, that doesnt even concern me, even if there is a whisper they might get involved, there is a giant uproar, I personaly just want anyone to stand up to this type of religious dogmad confrontation, that is not only plagiing Nigeria, but , just recently has raízed its ugly head in Kenya, and Mali, in way more blatent ways than any cia speculation theories in Africa

    It gets hilarious to see all the one sided políticle agendised cliches about the cia and usa invovement all rolled out , with the fairy tails about LSD , in the face of the really bloody incidents that have happened just recently at the hands of religious extremism…people cant even face the truth when it is in front of their noses…they sramble to look at Google , to pull anything out of their rear end they think can stick, but cant look at reality staring them in the face

    Did we discuss Kenya on here? Was there a thread on the mall massacres ?or is this just up because Michelle Obama put up a sign and there is a small military contingent with drones from the USA in Nigeria now to help with this?

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  64. BR, you know a lot about Naomi Klein than I do.

    What is her thesis, and what’s wrong with it?

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  65. BR, you know a lot more about Naomi Klein than I do.

    What is her thesis, and what’s wrong with it?
    Which books of hers have you read?
    What do you think of them?

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  66. And what is:
    ass uange? wo manning? snowjob?

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  67. And, is it an either/or choice for the US?
    I think what many in or from, Nigeria were advocating was to support the movement started and sustained by Nigerians.

    That’s what’s being said. How is that damned if we do and damned if we don’t?

    Like


  68. Ive seen three or four docus with Naomi Klein going into depth about shock doctrin and Freidman economic policies…one of her main points of referance was Chile and Pinnochet, and the over throwing of democraticly elected president , Salvador Allende, on 9/11 , I forget what year

    What Klein , Chomski , Oliver Stone, and a British docu guy , I forgot his name, who did a big docu on American involvement in South America, never go into is the reality that there were people studying armed revolution in Cuba, China, the Soviet Union, with the very real intention of having Marxist regimes , in the model of Fidel Castro , or Mão, or Stalin , installed in these perspective countries, while millions, multi millions of people were being eliminated inside these countries…

    They cant face the reality that this was happening in these countries, and that in the cold war, there wasnt middle ground…

    Only in a Cuban documentary , made as promo for Castro, did I get to see Allende actualy make a speech declaring he aligned himself with Castro and his revolution and the Cuban people, which , heck , some leaders down here do that now, but back then, with the very real back drop of the cold war, the absolute reality there were people training with Castro, Mão and the Soviet Union, to either bolster established regimes or over throw others in violent revolution…in the name of Marxism, this was declaration of which side they were on . And how they were willing to be part of an ideology that eliminates millions…multi millions

    Its too easy for Klein to go in and only look at the horrible things that some people did back then , with USA support , to fight against this absolutly disgusting ideologue , Marxism, that was eliminating multi millions right in that time space…but she charges ahead like those things didnt happen…then she attacks Chile s economy under Freidmans gogo Chicago guys tactics, but never refers to how bad North Korrea was under Marxism, how Cuba, who Allende alighned with, fell apart , when its big helper ,the Soviet Union collapsed under its ideology weight…etc I mean all this is left out of her narrative…id say that is a butchering of the truth

    Yeah , the usa played dirty, Im not saying any differant, but the other side was far more dirty…and that story keeps getting swept under the carpet

    This is just nutshell descriptions , it is very complex…but I know enough to recognise when people like her or Chomsky arnt telling the whole story

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  69. Further, BR, what I’ve learned about is happening in Nigeria, was from Nigerians, most with family-links in that country.
    These are things THEY are saying.
    So when you say it’s…

    hilarious to see all the one sided políticle agendised cliches about the cia and usa invovement all rolled out

    Do you mean it’s Nigerians who

    “can’t even face the truth when it is in front of their noses…they sramble to look at Google , to pull anything out of their rear end they think can stick, but cant look at reality staring them in the face

    ?
    Why isn’t what Nigerians say or want or need, who are in or from Nigeria worth anything?

    Like


  70. So, BR, you have not read anything Naomi Klein has actually written, only seen the documentaries.
    Fair enough.

    But, when you say the US plays dirty, but the others are dirtier, far more dirty — how do you quantify and measure that? How do you KNOW that?

    It doesn’t make sense. You want balance, but in the effort to provide that you simply point out and say “Look, others are doing it. They are worse”.

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  71. Im fine with no usa involvement in Nigeria, but , how do you know that for every one Nigerian against usa help, there arnt 10 that would welcome it? I dont presume to know, but just because there are some intellectual politicly agendised speakers who speak out against usa involvement, doesnt mean that is the general opinion

    But, I dont really know, and Im not pushing for usa involvement , I just want anyone to stand up to this kind of extremist religious action taking the world hostage…and that includes all religions …but , these recent events in Nigeria, Kenya and Mali, only highlight there are deeply embedded conflicts that are producing some all too real religious extremist actions of a serious provoking nature that obligates a responce…is it complicated and complex? Yes, it is , and I dont really have a solution, but I hate all religious extremism

    Like


  72. And, then you talk about the truth being “butchered”, BR.

    Like


  73. Bulanik, its just history that more tha 25 million people were eliminated in the Soviet Union , under a Marxist regime, and that, by all accounts is a modest number…30 million died in Mãos China, directly because of beaurocratic Marxist back to the feilds agriculture mandates, that failed miserably..again by all accounts a modest number and was probably lots more…to top it off, they had millions more killed in their Red Book purge of people deemed not dedicated enough to Mão and marxism by the book

    You are going to seriously tell me life is better in North Korea than South, or that 5 decades of Castro is good for the Cuban people, while they thrive in Miami?

    You dont think those multi millions of deaths wasnt quantifiable?

    Its blatently and ridiculously quantifiable…and I look at anybody sideways who cant recognise that and that yes, it was worth fighting dirty against

    Like


  74. how do you know that for every one Nigerian against usa help, there arnt 10 that would welcome it?

    Of course you know how many — or even MOST — Nigerians feel about ex-colonial and superpowers “helping” them don’t you? I don’t claim to know, either, but I’d hazard a guess that any “help” they would want would be VERY temporary. Like in and then OUT, if it came to that.

    Then, you say:

    intellectual politicly agendised speakers who speak out against usa involvement, doesnt mean that is the general opinion

    You use the word “intellectual”. That is a code for something else isn’t it?
    Why do you think many, many Africans aren’t keen on the involvement of the US in their various countries? Your answer would be eye-opening!

    You think this is — in essence — about religious extremism.
    I do not.
    Religion is just the flag of distraction and deflection that binds some people into balls of fury until they can’t think straight, and much is done in the name in religion.

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  75. B.R

    Your obvious brainwashing is your refusal to examine the present day actions of the US government in the affairs of other countries.

    Globally the US is the biggest military player on the planet. It can start and end wars at will. Do you really think this dominance, power and influence is challenged by anything you’ve said?

    Do you REALLY believe the US (TODAY) is using its military power and dominance as a force for positive humanitarian global democratic change?

    If so… then I will accept I must be brainwashed in your opinion…!

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  76. And because you know a few families from Nigeria you think you are getting the whole picture of Nigerian opinion?

    What do you think Im not getting from Kleins basic fundimental picture that is not in her documentaríeis? I can sure tell you in every thing ive ever seen her say , many times over, she never has given the true picture about what happened in South America…the truth would undermine her position too much

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  77. BR, you said the US plays dirty, but the others are dirtier, far more dirty — and I asked you to quantify that.

    Your answer is quoting body counts. Because by telling me about how many millions died under different Marxist regimes that supposedly answers my questions.

    I didn’t ask you about Korea, Soviet Union, Cuba, or such. I asked you something else which you have missed.

    There is nothing “ridiculous” in my question. Your saying something is “ridiculous” doesn’t make it so.
    So when you said:

    … I look at anybody sideways who cant recognise that and that yes, it was worth fighting dirty against

    It tells me that your modus operandi is 100% justification, no matter what, no matter how, for the US’s actions.

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  78. BR

    Do you think I only know a few families from Nigeria? Do you sincerely believe I base my whole thinking and belief on the whole picture of Nigerian opinion on a couple of people?

    Are you really that naive, BR?

    Like


  79. And your brainwashing prevents you from seeing how the world really is right now, Kwamla

    Right now , there are enormous events happening all over the world the usa has no power to affect at all

    Or do you blame them for what is happening in Syria right now? Crimea? The Kenya mal, massacres ? What ever is happening in the flip flopping in Egypt right now which is happening faster than can be kept up with? The chaos in Venezuela now, do you really beleive the cia is behind the epic economic failure and discontent by the people there? Or the absolute huge string kg bombings on Islamic people in Islamic countries from religious fanatics that have absolutly nothing to do with usa involvement, its just their standard operational procedure, from extremist religious fanatical groups?

    Im not denying the usa plays dirty, that it has enormous power and influence, but so many people are ready to blame the usa and the cia for their own problems they need to look in the mirror about

    But its you demonstrating naiveness or an agenda about usa involvement in anything that moves..I urge you to do a more realistic research about what really is happening out here…with the whole story…ive heard a million times over what people think the usa has done wrong, but very little admision of what is happening on the other side

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  80. BR, you speak so authoritatively about Naomi Klein.
    Yet you only know her mind from watching a couple of documentaries.

    For myself, I can think someone is one-sided, and I can disagree with them.
    But it doesn’t stop them from having a point or even being RIGHT.

    Like


  81. Does this seem like a concerned and sympathetic Nigerian government that is doing the best it can to “Bring back our girls” ?

    If not why not? What could they possible know about this whole Boko Haram event that the world’s media are oblivious too…?

    NewsRescue- In this video, Nigeria’s minister of finance, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala was very “cold” on the issue of Boko Haram’s abduction of 234 girls. She was so uninterested in talking about the case and when she did talk, she did not mention or in any where sympathetically refer to the cases and trials of the girls still in the Bushes with Boko Haram for over four weeks.

    All Nigeria’s minister could talk and brag about was the World Economic Forum conference, which some say should have been canceled in regard of the desperate situation of the Chibok abducted girls.

    Without even being asked, the minute the ABC broadcaster asked to ask her questions, she immediately said she was “tired of the same story.” It was clear the abduction had ruined “her party.”

    Read more: http://newsrescue.com/cold-video-okonjo-iweala-tired-talking-missing-chibok-girls/#ixzz31UcmdfeE

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  82. No, you see what you want , Bulanik, its you bringing in Kleins half truths, you bringing up Guatamala, you bringing in a sloppy lying report from wiki leaks

    You bring in referances to the cold war but cant handle the real statistics, that are extremly quantifiable

    And no, you dont really know how the Nigerian people really think

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  83. No, I never said Im an expert on Klein, I just see through her half truths , nor do I want to be an expert on her or Chompsky exactly because of their half truths

    You are the person bringing them in as some kind of credibility , not mr, i just pointout the very real flaws in their arguments…I live down here, ive paid serious attention to all sides..I base my opinion on that, not reading about it from afar,

    Like


  84. BR,

    I am afraid your arguments are weak, transparent and naive.

    Like


  85. @ BR

    Many, many of us see through half-truths, but we don’t don’t claim to be authorities or experts.

    What I tried to do, was find out what Nigerians had to say about Nigeria.
    Not just a few families!

    From what your saying, the sources and voices of some of Nigerians is worthless.

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  86. Im not denying the usa plays dirty, that it has enormous power and influence, but so many people are ready to blame the usa and the cia for their own problems they need to look in the mirror about

    You keep saying this over and over:
    ” I am not denying the USA plays dirty…” and in the next breath, pointing the finger at someone else.

    If you are not denying it, then why don’t you give a constructive theory about the US involvement. That would be far more credible if your true motive is balance, if you really “see through” everything and can “de-bunk” anything as you seem to say.

    Like


  87. @ Kwamla

    To BR you said:

    Your obvious brainwashing is your refusal to examine the present day actions of the US government in the affairs of other countries.

    Globally the US is the biggest military player on the planet. It can start and end wars at will. Do you really think this dominance, power and influence is challenged by anything you’ve said?

    Do you REALLY believe the US (TODAY) is using its military power and dominance as a force for positive humanitarian global democratic change?

    Are people who realise this, simply naive and driven by an agenda because we do?

    Like


  88. BR,

    And no, you dont really know how the Nigerian people really think

    What I said about this was:
    I don’t claim to know,

    I said so here:https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/boko-haram/#comment-232274

    Please do not put words into my mouth.
    It makes me something I am not and something you want me to look like that is not me.

    Like


  89. Bulanik,

    Its possible to inform yourself using the internet, reading and speaking to people as we do. We can all form an idea or picture of what is going on in the world. The more you practice doing this the better you become and the more critical your thought process develops to help you make sense of such things.

    But you have to begin the process…If you simply rely on what others tell you or trust the news media designed to capture your visual attention. You will fail to to begin this process. Remaining docile like sheep.

    Its like eating the food that just appears in front of you every time you are hungry. Why would you want or even think of getting up to search for other food if the food that you get in front of you is always there?

    Also, there actually is a technological program of forced mind control on US citizens. This is taking place on many levels: mind, body and spiritual. So yes there is an agenda which you can research and find out more about. But you have to decide if you believe such things are really happening or not. A bit like the roles we are suggested to occupy in the film the matrix…. !

    Or maybe people like ourselves are just plain naive, fooled and driven by our own crazy agendas?

    We all will need to decide for ourselves individually and then collectively…

    Like


  90. @ Kwamla

    Is it “old-school” to form an outlook by combining life-experience, book knowledge, doing lots of listening, asking lots of questions, and then struglling to find answers through learning and thinking?
    If so, then “old school” takes a lot of effort. And, doing that doesn’t automatically make a person naive, crazy or agenda-driven.

    Like


  91. […] "Jama’atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda’awati wal-Jihad(2002- ), the People Committed to the Propagation of the Prophet’s Teachings and Jihad, is better known by its Hausa nickname, Boko Haram. “Haram” means forbidden, “Boko” means fake – or Western education. Boko Haram wants to overthrow the Nigerian government and set up Muslim rule."  […]

    Like


  92. We can all assess for ourselves the quality of the information presented and its sources. Its on that basis that we can determine whether someone is “naive, crazy or agenda driven”

    We have to self educate and inform ourselves – old school – like you describe Bulanik – otherwise we become the very same people we say we are not:naive, crazy or agenda driven. Where the agenda is someone else’s.

    Like


  93. Then you seriously underestimate where Im coming from…Trying to peg me as a provincial American , only dealing with American propaganda couldnt be farther from the truth

    Ive honed my position paying close attention to exactly the non American sources…these are the ones that are most revealing of the flaws of people like Klein..The pro Castro docus are made in Cuba, for him, and give the important information that Cuba was in 17 countries in África , with Soviet money, as imperialistic as the USA.

    That Allende was in fact aligned with Castro , and in that time, in that context, it sealed his fate

    In two Cuban docus, no less , Castro is emphasising the one of the most important results was , in the revolution ,eliminating the horrible prostitution, when prostitution is rampent in the tourist parts of the island now

    I have watched the Klein docu many many times to try to exactly get what she is saying…I dont change the channal , and, its her docu , what do you think she would be hiding about her position , if she is in charge about what she is saying? I say half truths , which means I know a part of what she sais is true, and in fact, I hate hyper predatory capatalism as much as Marxism, but, she leaves huge gaps at not acknowledging a lot of people were pushing to align with the Cuban Soviet bloc, all that that really implies, and the real suffering people who were under those blocs were going through . She tries to make a point that lots of people suffered under the new Pinochet economy, and I would never say that capatalism cures poverty, but her implication of failure in the Pinochet economy is countered by many educated implications that Chile went through an economic miricle , especialy compared to the rocky economies of Chilies neighbors at that time ..sure, she addresses that, but not satisfactorly

    These are not weak arguments, they are invitations to look at the bigger picture going on back then , and to not just beleive any anti American rhetoric, or pro
    American rhetoric coming down the pike..because in truth , these things are more complex than the agendas put forte by supporters on either side

    There is nothing I have said that us weak…its not profound, its just obvious truths that get left out of hindsight , only look at USA faults but not look at really went on, the whole picture…the whole story is amazingly left out of both right and left narratives…I am not a gung ho everything America did was right, but we are going to look at the whole context and what everyone else is doing also, or it is a flawed discusion

    I honestly prefer the USA to not get involved, exactly because of this scrutiny, but I recognise this pattern of religious fundimental extremity, that has cronicly been coming out of Nigeria , Kenya and Mali, in just recent memory, and support the people in those countries standing up to this, and if they ask for aid I support that , and if they dont I support that

    My point is not what anyone knows or doesnt know about the Nigerian people, it is that no one can really know or speak to what Nigerians want, because it is too diverse right now…its obvious that is the case. There are too many differant opinions from Nigerians about, ive already seen it comments by Nigerians in other papers

    Like


  94. @ Kwamla

    We can all assess the quality of information.

    I looked again at what the Wiki-leaks article says about the use of LSD suicide bombers by insurgents in Nigeria. It said if an attack is to be :
    “…carried out by a suicide bomber, the person to carry{ing} it out would have been severely drugged with CIA manufactured LSD to disorientation. In his state of mind he would have no clue as to what he is programmed to do having been turned into a veritable human robot.”

    This detail has been rubbished and dismissed:

    BR said: “..ridiculus … Like the LSD discription..who wrote that obviously has no idea of the properties of LSD , its fairy tail writing based on sensationalist ideas of what LSD can do. Anybody here ever did LSD ? You do not go into black outs , not remembering…they call it tripping because its like going on a voyage you wont forget..”

    And V-4 agreed, saying:

    “…And while the US has done various iffy stuff in its time; if there is nothing to go on but wikipedia reports that don’t know how drugs work and rumor…..that’s not much of a backing for the theory.”

    **********************************

    LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) is a hallucinogenic drug. As such, it runs the risk of the user taking dangerous actions without awareness to the risks.
    The Wiki-leaks report does NOT say though, that it the suicide bomber was prone to forgetfulness. Or blackouts.
    It says “disorientation”.
    Disoriented individuals have impaired judgment, at the very least.

    What is more, it is well-known that the CIA have been using LSD for more than 60 years because they wanted to harness the use of drug technology.
    Therefore “CIA manufactured LSD” would hardly be a fantasy!

    In fact, the US government secretly tested the effects of the LSD on 100s of unsuspecting American civilians and military personnel for decades.
    Here: http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/23/the-legacy-of-the-cias-secret-lsd-experiments-on-america/
    It would not be first time the US has used its population in this way.
    The Tuskegee Experiment comes to mind.

    Additionally, CIA and the US Departmetn of Defense research both found that LSD made susceptible users of the drug highly suggestible.
    And, that’s been known by both agencies since the 1960s:
    http://www.lycaeum.org/research/researchpdfs/1489.pdf

    Like


  95. @ Kwamla

    We can all assess the quality of information.

    I looked again at what the Wiki-leaks article says about the use of LSD suicide bombers by insurgents in Nigeria. It said if an attack is to be :

    “…carried out by a suicide bomber, the person to carry{ing} it out would have been severely drugged with CIA manufactured LSD to disorientation. In his state of mind he would have no clue as to what he is programmed to do having been turned into a veritable human robot.”

    This detail has been rubbished and dismissed:

    BR said: “..ridiculus … Like the LSD discription..who wrote that obviously has no idea of the properties of LSD , its fairy tail writing based on sensationalist ideas of what LSD can do. Anybody here ever did LSD ? You do not go into black outs , not remembering…they call it tripping because its like going on a voyage you wont forget..”

    And V-4 agreed, saying:

    “…And while the US has done various iffy stuff in its time; if there is nothing to go on but wikipedia reports that don’t know how drugs work and rumor…..that’s not much of a backing for the theory.”

    **********************************

    LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) is a hallucinogenic drug. As such, it runs the risk of the user taking dangerous actions without awareness to the risks.
    The Wiki-leaks report does NOT say though, that it the suicide bomber was prone to

    forgetfulness. Or blackouts.

    It actually says “disorientation”.
    Disoriented individuals have impaired judgment, at the very least.

    What is more, it is well-known that the CIA have been using LSD for more than 60 years because they wanted to harness the use of drug technology.
    Therefore “CIA manufactured LSD” would hardly be a fantasy!

    In fact, the US government secretly tested the effects of the LSD on 100s of unsuspecting American civilians and military personnel for decades.
    Here: http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/23/the-legacy-of-the-cias-secret-lsd-experiments-on-america/
    It would not be first time the US has used its population in this way.
    The Tuskegee Experiment comes to mind.

    Additionally, CIA and the US Departmetn of Defense research both found that LSD made susceptible users of the drug highly suggestible.
    And, that’s been known by both agencies since the 1960s:
    http://www.lycaeum.org/research/researchpdfs/1489.pdf

    Like


  96. What anyone here debating with me about Ametican foreign policy, and its history in the cold war, if they bring that up as a detracting point about America, has to know is that I deal with the hyper steroid version , from the far left , of their version of what America did wrong to them , on a daily emocional in your face way…Ive heard every argument you could think of…it comes blasting out to me on the media, on government channals or local small anti American channals , newspaper opinion pages, school teachers versions to my kid and just regular brain washing opinions…

    I know the fundimental arguments by Klein, Chomsky, Stone, and a huge host of for real marxists down here , who tried their Che revolution , and failed, and now get to be in charge of making their one sided, half truth versions of documentaríeis stating their version how it happened..saying more stuff you never heard, like the usa sent 30,000 people from the Peace Corp ready to fight for American interests when the armed struggle broke out…just crazy balonie

    This way I hear in depth all their acusasations, and I get to perecível their flaws because it isnt rocket science, its just the whole truth and if you leave holes in the middle, if someone has a relative idea of the whole picture, the holes will be obvious…

    Most Americans are like a deer in the headlights in the face of these arguments, they dont even know what America really did, or, they sound like gung ho ignorant, even more ignorant than anyone about the truth

    But you better beleive ive spent close to 30 year deeply confronting the truth and reality of Ametica in the cold war in Brazil, and by proxy I discover the truths of other countries near by…for sure not intencional, Brazil is what I care about….Im not speaking of all Brazilians, just the ones that blame America and actualy thought marxism was and is hunky dory…and beleive me, its in my face more than ever as young punks come out waving communist flags and destroying things that every day people use , and has affected my comings and goings…as well as the real anti americanism I have suffered

    This is not some patty cake arm chair debate for me, its dead serious in your face reality right now in the moment…and Im happy to express exactly how I feel about it

    Like


  97. @ Abagond

    Please delete this comment posted in error:https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/boko-haram/#comment-232312

    Thank you.

    Like


  98. My god has anyone here ever taken LSD? I lets get down to the nitty gritty here , because I have and that is a fairy tale about the affects of acid

    Get for real… bring it and back off strange tired wiki leaks bs or if you read it on Google or wikipedia

    Got dammit ive done it several times and that is a bs description written by someone who thinks its like an alcoholic binge

    Like


  99. Don’t you know that the effects of LSD are unpredictable, BR?

    Because you have done a drug doesn’t make you The Expert on it and silences all other experience, research or reportage.
    You are not “more real” and the heavyweight opinion because you have taken a particular drug.

    The facts on the suicide bomber still stand.

    Like


  100. @bulanik br is referring to edward snowden, julian assange, and bradley manning, whistleblowers

    Like


  101. You could have done it one thousand times, it makes no difference.

    it was an alcoholic binge TO YOU.
    Even with alcoholic, people react differently to it.

    This doesn’t make you the expert and authority about LSD because you took it.
    Not at all.

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  102. @v8, I realize that now, thank you.

    I really think it’s unnecessary to disrespect people by deliberately getting mis-spelling their names…

    Like


  103. So do you see how this bs works? People read somewhere that the cia used LSD , its hyped in movies and used in anti american propaganda and then someone , who obviously never took acid writes how the cia drugged people in Nigéria, so they would have blackouts or some crazy notion of what they think acid could do

    I mean if you want some one to do something that has the purpose of completing an act and forgetting and blacking out, acid isnt your best drug of choice

    And my arguments are called weak?

    This discusion descends lower and lower, ever more talking about the usa when it really isnt the real focus here

    I mean my gosh, cia using LSD to send someone out on a destructive mission

    Im just waiting for someone to chime in “brilliant”…pat each other on the back and serve up the next bs

    We are heading into no where ville now

    Like


  104. I admit I got annoyed with Asplund, though, and mis-spelled his name.
    But this is a serious issue.

    Like


  105. You know how this really works, BR?
    The report about the suicide bomber in Nigeria may have elements in it that you thought you could mightily “de-bunk” because you took a drug mentioned in it. But a personal experience of a narcotic doesn’t change the scenario the report described.

    Your own experience, in itself, is a very slim thread to rubbish and dismiss an argument that hinges on the intervention of fairly well-known methods used in a variety of locations.

    Then, when just a little detailed science about LSD (that can be accessed by anyone), simply doesn’t corroborate your singular experience — again we are back in the territory of:

    — anti-American propaganda
    — craziness
    — BS

    And, nowheresville.

    BR: simply because you don’t like a report or certain details that don’t match your own experience, doesn’t make them completely worthless, or untrue.

    Like


  106. Did it ever occor to anyone that the cia and army tested people on acid or a prisoner but absolutly wouldnt send someone out on a mission with the hope they will black out ? Exactly because it has unpredictability?

    I mean you do halucinate but you dont complete complicated destructive tasks and black out on command

    I mean my gosh, if anyone on here would like to beleive this, that you can give them acid and they will do what you want them to do…then we have sunk to a new leval of misinformation

    Like


  107. @ BR

    This discusion descends lower and lower, ever more talking about the usa when it really isnt the real focus here

    How? This is relevant to the thread and is precise to a remark YOU made in response to description of circumstances in Nigeria, here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/boko-haram/#comment-232055

    No one questioned your comment about use of drugs in the current violence in Nigeria. It was accepted as given.

    I don’t know anything about LSD — from personally taking it.
    But I was curious about what you said, and looked for information…and what you said doesn’t really stand up. Not at all.

    Suddenly, the discussion loses focus.
    Suddenly, we are spiralling lower and lower…

    The fact is that from what the writings and info about LSD indicates, what the Wikileaks report says about the use of LSD is not implausible.

    Like


  108. Yeah, fiction and movies and sensationalist clap trap is so much more fun than going over the reality

    Personal experiance accounts for nothing…better to beleive the cia gives acid to poor Islamic Nigerian solders to complete a suicide missions, that they are suposed to black out on

    Give me some coke and heroin to go on a suicide mission

    And I said these people are painting acid like its an alcoholic binge not me…they are two radicly differant things

    And to think you would give acid to someone to complete a task and do what they want? Man, the cia is really bungaling, but I dont think they would actualy do that as any tecnique

    Bs

    Like


  109. @Bulanik

    Have ever heard of the term ‘religiosity’? Just HOW religious are these places you mention? How strictly do their people interpret and adhere to their proclaimed religious teachings? How secular are their government policies and institutions?

    Look to the United States and much of the West where most claim to be Christian. The US is Christian in name only. The further we’ve strayed away from fundamental religious belief, the more we have advanced. The Islamic world ought to follow this trend.

    Like


  110. Did it ever occor to anyone that the cia and army tested people on acid or a prisoner but absolutly wouldnt send someone out on a mission with the hope they will black out ? Exactly because it has unpredictability?

    What makes you so sure? How do YOU know that? Is that what documents say…because the military and CIA care so deeply for their drug guinea pigs?
    Further:
    1. did the US military use the drug on suicide missions / bombers?
    2. and when the report says “CIA manufactured” — can’t there be different forms and combos of a LSD-based drug?

    If you read the background to LSD research (govt research which is more extensive than your own experience), the choice of user is also significant.

    As you as you want to tell us all about misinformation, please don’t underestimate the ability of readers to search or think for themselves.
    It’s also a bit much to characterise anyone who disagrees with you as somehow scraping the barrel and being of a lower order because they disagree…

    Like


  111. @ The Pragmatist

    I know what you mean about religiosity. Not a fan, personally.

    Like


  112. The truth is acid could be used as an iterrogatiin tecnique, not to send someone out to do a mission

    They just got their fantacy story wrong…what do you expect fro Assusnge?

    There is a guy with a real agenda

    Like


  113. @ BR, you don’t know drug technology is being used.
    Speculation.

    Like


  114. What do I expect of Assusnge?

    BR, you could at least call him by his name 😀

    I do not expect the world. Some suspicious are groundless or, to me, unimportant. But sometimes there is information which I think people get “gut feelings” about, and when you see it and sift through how and what and why it happens, it changes perspective. Sometimes people just want to know what is REALLY going on.

    What about the decrypted but hitherto unreleased video footage from a US Apache helicopter in 2007?
    Remember that?

    It showed: “Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and several others as the Apache shoots and kills them in a public square in Eastern Baghdad. They are apparently assumed to be insurgents. After the initial shooting, an unarmed group of adults and children in a minivan arrives on the scene and attempts to transport the wounded. They are fired upon as well. The official statement on this incident initially listed all adults as insurgents and claimed the US military did not know how the deaths ocurred. Wikileaks released this video with transcripts and a package of supporting documents …”

    Not everything certain Departments and Agencies don’t want us to see is fantasy and BS, you see.

    Like


  115. @ The Pragmatist

    You believe the world of Muslims is intellectually and socially backward.
    If you believe these places and people should follow the example of Europeans and other Westerners because we are more advanced, this is understandable.
    We ARE taught and shown that the West is better and superior from the get-go, that people in these countries want what we have, act out of jealousy and hatred, and are this, that and the other, so we that is what we expect of them.

    As for answering your questions about these places: I am hardly the one to give you proper answers. I can only give you my thoughts based on what I’ve learned, and I am still learning.

    The best way is to find out about Muslims is in these countries, or by spending time with different cultures and Muslims. I feel it’s best to do so with an open mind, without feeling you are more “advanced” or “civilzed” because of where you are from. That’s standard advice for general travel and new encounters, though, so I can’t really tell you anything you don’t already know on this, I’m afraid.

    If you have the opportunity to visit a country with a big number of Muslims, you might find some surprising peaceful and civilized aspects of behaviour (and culture). It might come as a surprise because “the Muslim world” is overshadowed by supposedly “truer” impression of barbarity without any counter-narratives…
    But whether you do is entirely your personal and individual, decision.
    *

    Those counter-narratives might come from learning about the different cultures that practice Islam, and also reading and thinking about the history of Islam.

    My own feeling here is that image of barbarity is to justify colonialist policies.
    War. Occupation. Daily killing.
    To inculcate shame, defensiveness, guilt and apology from Muslims — endless apology — for MODERN events applied to Islam that are not, in fact, essentially Islamic. More politics.

    Like


  116. i have taken lsd about 133 times, it’s not a ‘blacking out’ drug, i’ll give ya that br

    Like


  117. V-8, I’ve not read that’s it’s a “blacking out” anywhere.
    I am not sure where BR got that from, because, so far that I can see, the wiikleaks doesn’t say so either.

    (Maybe I missed it.)

    Like


  118. I would have to say this is part of the instigated brainwashing that is applied to US citizens which would make people think like this…

    Look to the United States and much of the West where most claim to be Christian. The US is Christian in name only. The further we’ve strayed away from fundamental religious belief, the more we have advanced. The Islamic world ought to follow this trend.

    Its precisely because of this widespread Christian belief that the US is able to manipulate its population against the threat of an Islamic world takeover. Advancement has come as a result of the secular minority elite playing off the Christians against the Muslims in a BS propaganda war. So while these two religious factions continuously battle it out for some illusive victory. Everyone else is kept in abject fear, slavery and poverty. Its the secular minority ruling elites who advance in wealth and so do their techniques for manipulation and control.

    Buying into a secular vision of the world may see you advance physically technologically but it devolves you spiritually (you become less human) on the inside. This is the typical agenda of the US and it is what we see in such so called terrorists events being played out. Boko Haram are just the latest…

    While everyone (like B.R) are preoccupied and focused on the latest “Religious or Marxist” atrocities. Happily helping to condemn such groups who carry them out as the culprits The US in alliance with its western partners like UK, France and Germany etc.. does not care so long as it can continue to carry on with its own secular agenda.

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  119. The descent of Africa continues. How many of the kidnapped girls have been raped? How many are now pregnant? How many will return home?

    What will be done about Boko Harum? Does any nation outside Africa care?

    Will Nigeria appease Boko Harum and release prisoners?

    The African continent is a nightmare and it shows no signs of improving.

    Like


  120. @ sb32199

    Have you ever stopped to think and consider what clandestine immoral activities your own US government might have helped orchestrate?

    If the African continent is a nightmare who benefits most from the plundering of its resources when they are open for the taking?

    Like


  121. @Bulanik,

    Think of it this way. Our old friend here B.R. is the worst kind of US expat. The kind who lectures you about your country (history and culture) while making excuses for his country.

    Like


  122. @George Ryder,

    “The Chinese benefit the most from the plundering of Africa’s resources.

    They are basically buying up the entire continent right now.

    I don’t think you can label what appear to be regular business investments as “plundering”. They are getting much better deals from the Chinese than the IMF or World Bank and the Chinese deals, unlike the IMF/World Bank ones, don’t have political strings attached either.

    Like


  123. @ George

    China, the US and all the other former colonial Western countries (even Australia) benefit if you do some investigative work…But right now who is benefiting the most from all the wars in the African Central Republic – Congo?

    Like


  124. “sb32199
    The African continent is a nightmare and it shows no signs of improving.”

    Linda says,

    what a load of Rubbish!

    where is the American “middle class”? tea party take-over?

    how come America still has to import foreign engineers, doctors, and scientists from Africa, Europe and Asia, to fill the gap in STEM’s (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) because American schools can’t produce enough graduates to fill the void.

    American government and “Big Business” corporations have been raping the American people for the last 30 years — too bad Americans are not “outraged” about that nightmare.

    “While the markets may be performing well, the average American isn’t. Unemployment remains high, as does household debt. Gross domestic product (GDP) is essentially flat. Housing may be the one bright spot, but even that sector is fragile at best.”

    http://www.useconomicoutlook2014.com/

    The US economy was sustained by “bubbles” for the last 20 years — good sectors gone bad, were out of control and burst, tanking the US economy because your politicians were too busy counting their coins from making and selling weapons and sustaining their manufactured wars. (Wars the USA still didn’t win)

    but don’t worry about questioning what is happening to 2/3rds of North America…the Mexicans and China aren’t pressed

    keep thinking you are superior to the continent of “Africa” from your porch on the sinking ship.

    Like


  125. People. Open your eyes. CIA is written all over this. The west has no money. They don’t have any resources to back anything. Nor does China. But Africa does.

    And Nigeria is Africa’s biggest economic powerhouse for now. Whites just want to recolonize Africa. And white people, don’t sit up here and say I’m wrong just because you (claim) to not be racist. It isn’t you getting locked up at disproportionate rates. Or shot by police. Or having a trashy image of you broadcast throughout the world. Your opinions are as worthless as your words. So go ahead and try to justify your racism with “crime statistics”.

    Hey, I got a question for you all. A few, actually; Any small arms manufacturers in Africa? How about Armored Car manufacturers? How this “Boko Haram” group get all this fresh gear but not what it is they want and (allegedly) pray for? How does a group that has been allegedly terrorizing for a decade only NOW become a problem? How does this group which wants to be taken seriously only want $12 American dollars per head? As if that’ll take you somewhere in a marriage (even in AFrica). Why would a group that needs to be taken seriously call itself “Western Education is Sinful”?

    Open your eyes or gouge them out. That goes for all of you. Don’t give me this “Islamic terrorism” shit. It’s white supremacy and too many don’t see it. Here they are trying to curb the soaring population of Black People ALL OVER THE WORLD through wars, manufactured epidemics, and prisons. Deteriorate the predominant representation of them (Hip Hop) and then have Nigerian “terrorists” who LOOK JUST LIKE THE AVERAGE BLACK AMERICAN plastered everywhere in the media.

    Just so you can lock up American Blacks under terrorism charges or something (or kill them), while strengthening white supremacy.

    You who are all caught up on the religious part of it need to wake the hell up. Up here arguing about religion when the only reason why we are in this position is because we eff around with Arab and European trash disguised as “god”. None of these “prophets” or “saints” are ever represented as BLACK (like the people of the time and area WERE/ARE) so frankly, you’re a sell out if you’re worshipping them.

    Hell, I’ve seen white people giving a damn about it. Calling themselves “christian”, yet they don’t care about any of the missing Black children in the US now do they? Don’t waste my time.

    Like


  126. @George Ryder,

    “@ks

    the Chinese deals don’t have political strings attached???

    hmmmm, i’m not buying that. there’s always strings attached.

    There’s a difference between the type of deals. The Chinese deals are usually straight forward business transactions (e.g. open companies, factories, stores, buy land, etc.) and are often done with African governments and companies. It’s pretty standard foreign investment and doesn’t meddle with the various countires political situations.

    Whereas the IMF/World Bank usually offer loans that normally requires some sort of severe economic and political austerity measures (e.g. social benefit cuts, selling national assets to private interests, etc.) that the governments must agree in order to get the loans. Also, when you throw in the military influence of AfriCom and whatnot, it’s clear that we have all types of strings attached to everything.

    Like


  127. The U.S government has there hands in EVERYTHING and has kept the American people nice and dumb. People call call it a conspiracy theory all day but I bet the U.S. government calls it business.

    Like


  128. This is the reason I don’t like when the western media takes an interest in incidents that occur in Africa —

    they only care to report the bad incident and all the negativity surrounding it and that particular country but don’t report as loudly the positive things.

    while the American celebrities and politicians are busy lending their voices to protest the kidnappings,

    not a peep could be heard about the fact that Nigeria was hosting the World Economic Forum for the first time and they received this honour because of Nigeria’s strong economic growth (Nigerian GDP have surpassed South Africa’s)

    “The country (Nigeria) has been a terrific economic growth story for the past few years, humming along at around 7%. It is at the heart of what many define as an African Renaissance.

    After decades of loans from international lenders such as the World Bank, high debt and little development, Africa is coming alive.

    But Nigeria does have a couple of obvious economic black-eyes, most notably an inability to close the wealth gap between the North and South, which in turn has given fuel to the Boko Haram movement and, by extension, radical Islam.”

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/07/business/defterios-nigeria-wef/

    So, as far as Boko Haram is concerned, the real question about their existence or their motivations might be more about “economics and Ethnicity” than about religion….

    Boko Haram was one of many separatist movements that wanted north Nigeria to separate from south Nigeria.

    South Nigeria has the oil and northern Nigeria is more agricultural… so in other words, the Nigerian south is “richer” than the north… hence, you have more radicals in the North.

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  129. KS, for a guy from Harlem, the center of the world, you are one provincial bump on a log..

    oh ha ha do you need a light for your corn cob pipe..hey dont worry, im deep into Brazilian culture now, something you have absolutly nothing to do with at all…and you, know what you know about politicly what happening down here, is squat…

    Kwamla, the problem is , like i tried to convey to you, commie bs and flags are in my face on a frequent basis, if they are not in yours, great, but they sure are as hades in my face …i mean this is the restrospect of 50 years dictatorship, so , on a daily basis, im getting the brainwashed anti american ,pro marxist version..its amazing, 80 percent of people interveiwed for represion , after they bombed someone, kidnapped someone or assasinated someone or robbed a bank is a marxist , admitted…telling a one sided story with huge bs holes..and hardly an admision of really what was going on in the world back then…and the demonstrations with commie flags that i have been caught in , are for real…very real…and, who knows, maybe it will get busy one day

    and let me tell you, these hard core marxist lie and bs their rear ends off…i mean the far right lies about hiding things they are doing , and they dish up some real ignorant statements , if they dont cause the stuff they are just plain ignorant, the far left lies about how it went down. and they are smarter than the right so they bs and guilt trip it to death…

    Hey look,Bulanik, Ive said my peice, and ive expressed very well how i feel about it, I dont want to lead this emotionaly into the mud and take this thread hostage…

    I can tell you and Kwamla, I would advice any African country to not trust the USA but if you want something out of it, like a drone pass to see whats happening somewhere by all means…Brazil stands up to the USA all the time, and dont get repercusions. and they have huge , i mean huge oil reseverves.keeping the USA out of this is easy.just say no…if they want

    Im interested in the girls being found and some of the crazy conflicts that are pretty grusome being under control…something very bad is happening in some African countreis recently and the USA has nothing to do with it

    The truth is , these girls are mostly Islamic, half the Nigerian army is Islamic, if they can take care of this with out any outside intervention , Im all for it..
    but something very ominous has happened in Nigeria, Mali and Kenya just recently, and its winds coming from extreme fundamentalist religious directions…

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  130. Many countries in Africa are seeing growth and revitalization in their economies.

    while at the same time, the USA and countries in Europe are Stagnant. These countries are indeed “richer” than any country in Africa, but what happens to any business when it cannot grow.

    The goal of any investors is to live off the interest/profits of an investment and not touch the principal… the USA economy is no longer “generating” profits

    –its printing money while its previous strong, profitable industries continue to struggle to keep their heads above water

    here is an excerpt from the World Economic Forum that took place a few days ago in Nigeria:

    “The theme of our confer­ence is on Creating Jobs and Forging Inclusive Growth. So let me use this occasion to make a few remarks which will help set the stage for our discussions.

    First, the need to create jobs is a global problem. The International Labour Or­ganization estimates that in 2013 over 200 million people were unemployed around the world; and this includ­ed about 75 million young people between the ages of 15-24. Practically all coun­tries around the world are concerned about job creation.

    The developed economies, such as the United States of America, the UK and the Eurozone countries are all monitoring their employment numbers very closely to see if their economies are recov­ering from the recent global recession. In southern Euro­pean countries such as Spain and Portugal, unemployment rates have remained high in recent years at above 20 per­cent.

    “In fact, there have been many reported cases of re­verse migration of young graduates from Portugal and Spain, who are now moving back to their former colonies such as Angola, Brazil and Mozambique to seek jobs!

    In Africa, we also have our employment challenges. The unemployment rates today are over 20 per cent in many of our countries – Nigeria at about 24 per cent, South Af­rica at 25 per cent” he said.

    The president also noted that in Africa, the unemploy­ment problem is compound­ed by youthful population and pending demographic transition. Africa’s population, he said, is very young. Whereas other continents are “aging”, Africa’s population of young people is growing, so making African leaders to face special challenges.

    “We have the challenge to provide jobs, housing and healthcare. If you walk down the streets in Europe, the median age of the person you see is about 40 years. In Asia, the median age of the person on the street is 29 years. In Africa, this median age is only 20 years.

    The conference was dominated by concerns over the abducted school girls by the deadly terrosist group, Boko Haram.So, in the closing press conference on Friday by the Co-ordinating Minister and Minister of Finance, Dr Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, she said that President Goodluck Jonathan has approved the sum of $10 million (N1.6 billion) for the safe school project.

    The Minister noted that the $10 million would be added to the initial $10 mil-lion provided by the Nigerian business community, bring-ing the total amount for the project to $20 million (N3.2 billion).This became imperative to ensure the safety of all schools in order to prevent the kind of abduction that occurred at Chibok in Borno State.

    http://sunnewsonline.com/new/?p=63128

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  131. i would surmise that there is a strong undercurrent of anti-chinese influence via us military interventionism in africa because we cannot compete with the chinese economically and therefore using force/political means to define zones of infuence and control. the chinese are doing a lot of infrastructure upgrades and raw material purchasing in africa. its sad we dont devise similar means to improve lives here as well as there

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  132. George Ryder

    I believe I said “The U.S government has there hands in EVERYTHING” but to answer your question I believe that the weapon supply was through U.S. channels as past situations have indicated that that is not far fetched.

    Like


  133. @B.R.

    Blah, blah blah…okay grandpa tell me the story about the “Marxists” again…yawn…

    The funny thing is that despite being a long term expat, you’re actually the provencial one who is spouting the same old stale Cold war era tales.

    Like


  134. @kwamla, i agree: islam is the new socialism and all that domino theory stuff from the 60’s and 70’s can be substituted easily

    Like


  135. @Linda

    It was that type of negative report that made me fear going to Africa. That negative report may also result in negative ideas of Africans in general.

    Like


  136. “v8driver, its sad we dont devise similar means to improve lives here as well as there”

    Linda says,

    but the funny thing is, Nigeria doesn’t need the USA to solve it’s economic problems —

    hence, why some people are saying they don’t really want the USA involved in this situation because it will once again, lend to the propaganda, that America is the watchdog of the world and can ride in and save the day (even though I personally think for this situation, Nigeria should take any help it can get since Boko Haram has been winning all this time)

    that’s why many countries have turned to China because they are tired of games that USA and Europe play.

    I come from a country whose economy (1970’s) was tanked by IMF/World Bank and the CIA did indeed have a hand in bring weapons into our country and helped to fund the civil war that took place there — all because they did not like the fact that our prime minister was friends with Fidel Castro and wanted to limit US investments on the island…

    there is always a give and take when doing business but many countries have learned from the past, that doing business with the US government can be painful at times.

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  137. “Sharina @Linda

    It was that type of negative report that made me fear going to Africa. That negative report may also result in negative ideas of Africans in general.”

    Linda says,

    and I find that sad… but it’s understandable.

    Stereotypes and prejudices are kept alive by the influences that surround a society and in America, that influence is the media… that’s why I am a big advocate that people should travel, at least once.

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  138. @linda i guess i was thinking faster than i can type on this little android, but i mean mostly it would be nice to be able to build things in america, like iphones computers etc and possibly provide a means to a better life for africans as a lot of minerals obviously that are needed are found only there

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  139. “v8driver @linda i guess i was thinking faster than i can type on this little android, but i mean mostly it would be nice to be able to build things in america, like iphones computers etc and possibly provide a means to a better life for africans as a lot of minerals obviously that are needed are found only there”

    Linda says,

    I agree with you V8driver, an alliance would definitely be profitable because it would provide jobs for both Americans and Nigerians.

    but unfortunately, the majority of the mineral resources are found in northern Nigeria (where Boko Haram is located) and from my understanding, the northern Nigerian politicians and military leaders are selfish and corrupt–they seem to prosper while the average northern Nigerian is poor.

    According to the Forbes Billionaires list of 2014, Aliko Dangote (a northern Nigerian) is now the 23rd richest man in the world with a net worth of $25 billion dollars. He is richer than Alisher Usmanov (the richest man in Russia) and richer than Mukesh Ambani (India’s richest man)

    http://www.forbes.com/profile/aliko-dangote/

    not to say that Dangote has done anything wrong, but northern Nigeria has a lot to offer and the future could only get better once the in-fighting ceases.

    and I doubt American big business will bring back the manufacturing of “anything”, much less iphones and computers, back to the USA

    but never say never, maybe they will wake up one day and realize they made enough money at the expense of the American people, and bring the manufacturing jobs back to the USA.

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  140. It must be noted that the nigerian gov could have taken action to protect its children, but has done nothing over this time. Blame the US, Europe or whomever you want. Truth is Nigerian gov did not clean its own house & seemingly has no interest in doing so.

    Like


  141. @Temple

    It was noted above and in detail.

    Like


  142. @ sb32199

    “The descent of Africa continues.” +
    “The African continent is a nightmare and it shows no signs of improving.”

    Really?
    I beg to differ.
    That the entity called Africa is suffering from multiple wounds in its body right now is true. But that those wounds will lead to its ultimate downfall I don’t believe.
    And I live in Africa…
    I always get the impression that many people outside the continent are unable to put things happening in Africa in an adequate context.
    It’s true that the events happening in Nigeria and linked to the Boko Haram are bad and even horrific. They are surely making the persons killed and/or kidnapped suffer, and also their immediate and extended families suffer. But to conclude that all this can lead to a collapse of the state there or to a generalized disruption of the daily life there is a bit of a stretch. Not yet…
    I live in a country – Mozambique – that suffered a civil war (yes, a “real” war) for more than a decade in the 80’s but now we are enjoying a strong economic grow and the prospects for the next decades are bright. But even during the war the population was growing in numbers as it is now. In fact our population never suffered a diminution: neither the war was able to achieve that nor the onset of the AIDS epidemic. The population kept growing. And when the war was over and we entered the reconstruction period, the human resources needed to make things happen, were there waiting to be used.
    To put things happening in Nigeria in an appropriate context we should remember a few things:

    * Nigeria has more than 170 million people (nobody is going to disrupt a massive entity like that by killing or kidnapping a few hundreds or even thousands of people; it will make those affected surely suffer, but the society as a whole will not be brought down by that, not more than the IRA could, with its activities, bring down the British Kingdom not that far ago);
    * the Boko Haram existed since a few years and one would expect its activities to have already a visible impact in the Nigerian economy; fact is that the Nigerian economy had in last 10 years or more, a robust 7-8% yearly grow turning it already the largest in Africa in GDP terms (it used to be South Africa the largest African economy)

    Some lessons, however, should be drawn by the Nigerian state and even other African states in general.

    Most African societies are in the midst of painful development processes which entail the rapid formation of classes, with the wealthy and powerful on one side and the poor on the other side, and a yet relatively small, but growing, middle class in between.

    A large and growing class of disenfranchised people will, in the long term, peril the social peace in whatever society or country. The ruling elites must understand clearly that it is in their best interests to promote more inclusive economic politics. Otherwise, the ones who have nothing to loose can easily be drawn to crime, violence or be manipulated by outside forces against their societies.

    I close this post with an optimistic note. Remember: the Boko Haram and its activities is not everything in Nigeria and Africa in general. The other side are vibrant societies where people try their best to make their dreams come true. And this other side is massive, much more than the Boko Haram, Look at a few scenes of life in Lagos, Nigeria, right now:

    (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1681028&page=6)

    and

    (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1681028&page=33)

    So, to your sentence, sb32199, that “The African continent is a nightmare and it shows no signs of improving.” I reply, “No, it isn’t!”

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  143. Boko Haram is pretty weird group. Even though it has been islamistic terror organisation for years, US government has been trying to block it out from the list of terrorist organisations.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/05/why-did-hillary-clinton-defend-boko-haram.php

    The whole group is propably similar to Al Qaida which was born out from the US backed mujahediin groups in Afganistan, and Osama bin Laden was one of them and they were backed up by the US government, despite the fact that Gulbuddin Hekmatyar told many western journalists and politicians in the 80’s that first they bring down USSR and then they attack USA. They did so.

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  144. Bulanik’s link is probably right about who’s involved, the U.S., and there’s a long history of this, but make no mistake, like UK, Israeli, etc. intelligence is also involved.

    It’s not just a coincidence that the big attack that killed 300 happened when Li Keqiang was visiting Nigeria and shortly after the abduction. China has stepped up investment and trade with Nigeria, and Nigeria is increasing Yuan reserves. Makes more sense that Jonathan’s siding with China is the main reason for all this.

    Like


  145. V8 driver, I was counting on your expertice …Linda and Manu , I like your posts

    I dont know about Islam as the new socialism , maybe for Fox news nuts, in my humble opinion, people of Islam are as interested as anyone in the west , to cap extremist religious fundamental bombings…if anyone is paying any real attention to international news, Islamic people being killed by these Islamic fundamentalists, is cronic…like nut shooters in the USA..Islamic people and countries dont have to love the USA to unite to go after these people

    I dont see this as an Islamic problem in any way, its a problem of violent religous extremists ,Americans know these types very well, since Kkk, Alabama church bombings , David Koeritch, abortion doctor killers, Olympic bomber…Timithy Mcveigh…these are extremists,

    I reiterate , I hope the USA doesnt do anything…I want to see how this really plays out…is the USA really going to agresivly try to muscle in , take control,devide the country in various parts ? Or is this sensationalist talk and nothing like that will happen…and what will be the fate of these children, who are practicing Islam, and how to ease this conflict in the future, I want Nigéria to succeed, its a place I wish I could visit, Im a studiar of Ogeno, and some Igbo drumming

    Haha Ks, grandpops here…I know you think those red flag days are insignificant , but, you are no where near South America , Farc, the Hugo Chavez legacy…Correa letting Farc camp out, the thirty percent of Farcs part in the Brazil cocaine crack trade , with the biggest drug gangs all over Brazil, that has made Brazil the largest crack cocaine user in the world , contributing to , some of the thirty percent homicides, from the drug trade, which are war number casualties…that is the red flag Marxist Farc creating this havoc in the area, yet unbeleivably , people scream about the cia and the impending American invasion..for the oil, and the Amazon…sound familiar ? Nicholas Maduro acuses the cia of meddling every five weeks. See how this ties in with the rhetoric about the usa in this discusion ?

    but , just in my own city, university students rioted on campus over police busting a drug operation, they raised a red flag on campus, some students tore it down and raised a Brazil flag , the justice department ordered some red flag political agendised land sqatters to get off some land right on our highway the bus we use comes…they got off , came back and citezens who lived there kicked them off and burned their red flag, red flag protests are very real happenings in Brazil, and ive been caught in them , and they can be violent…this is all very real, and just a few examples out of many

    This isnt fifty years ago, Ks…oh by the way , Im humbled to be down here and learning so much truth and reality about how the world really works…I absolutly never intended to get this education, but, when you love another country as much as your own, you want to find out its history…and especialy if some part of some of the national psyche has resentments to the country you are from…when you wade into find out the real truth, you can be amazed how it can work and what you can find….I sure dont feel more out of touch with what is happening in the world as you…for sure if you like soccar , you will hear a lot about Brazi soon.also,, this isnt normal American think here, I battel tooth and náil, and ugly, with another American , who has lived down here as long as me….this isnt me saying Im mr expert on South America, its pure my experiances and how I see them

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  146. @Sharina
    Thanks for the helpful info. You’re a dear.

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  147. munu aka Bantu, from here in the US it looks like Africa is still sinking, though some nations are in better shape than others.

    Meanwhile, the median age of the people of Mozambique is under 17. Thus, like all black nations in Africa, it is a nation of children. Furthermore, after the Portuguese left in 1975, the country was tied up in a civil war that lasted almost 20 years. Not 10.

    And the new government is not a democracy. Yes, the economy of Mozambique is improving, but after falling as low as it fell, it reached the point where the only direction it could go was up. Yes, the population growth rate is high, as is the birth rate. That’s the main reason the median age is so low.

    Meanwhile, life expectancy is only 53, which is a dismally low number. But that’s not surprising when you realize the water is bad and carries loads of diseases. It’s also hard to ignore the AIDS problem. It’s huge in Mozambique.

    Literacy? Another disaster. But again, due to the high prevalence of Islam, it’s no surprise.

    The economy of Mozambique is also a disaster, though things are improving. But a huge percentage of its budget is supplied by foreign benefactors. Even with the help, per-person GDP is about $1,200 a year. That’s bad.

    There’s a lot of room for improvement in every African nation. Many have the natural resources to fund the upgrading of their societies, but they keep bungling the job.

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  148. @sb32199

    The median age of most African nations is lower than the West b/c Africa has the world’s fastest growing populations, while the West, the slowest growing (despite immigration), with some even shrinking like Germany. To call Mozambique a nation of children shows some ignorance of these facts. And it’s of course demeaning since you’re clearly implying it is run by children, when it is not. Mozambique’s president is 71 and Nigeria’s is 56, while US’ is 52 and Britain’s PM is only 47 (which explains Cameron’s childish behaviour).

    “There’s a lot of room for improvement in every African nation.”

    Mozambique and Nigeria are growing at envious economic growth rates while UK, US, etc are barely growing mostly due to heavy government intervention. African countries are improving a lot faster than Western nations, and the stats back that up.

    “Many have the natural resources to fund the upgrading of their societies, but they keep bungling the job.”

    If you knew any better, you’d know that natural resources have long been and still are primarily extracted from Africa by Western companies. which have convinced Western governments to intervene in African affairs, send military, etc. to protect Western interests.

    Judging by your comments, you’ve got a lot to learn about Africa.

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  149. resw77, the median age of most African nations is absurdly low for two reasons: an outrageously high birth rate and an dreadfully short life expectancy. Deaths in childbirth are high and loads of diseases shorten lives.

    So, yes, Mozambique and Nigeria are both nations of children, children who aren’t receiving much education, as literacy figures show. It’s irrelevant that the head of state of Mozambique is 71.

    Moreover, he’s pretty much a dictator.

    Regarding the economic growth of Mozambique and Nigeria, yes, both are reporting high rates, though of course it’s tough to verify their claims. That aside, the high rates are high compared with growth rates in the US and other advanced nations. But the African rates are unimpressive after accounting for the fact that the countries are so poor and so slow to exploit their natural resources.

    Of course you blame westerners for the problems by claiming that western companies handle the extraction of resources. Isn’t it about time for African nations to develop some resource extraction skills? There’s surely nothing stopping them from learning how it’s done.

    Meanwhile, Islam is a growing force in both nations. About 40% of Nigeria is under the sway of this destructive religious/political/military ideology. In Mozambique about 20% of the population is hooked. Pretty soon both countries will reach the tipping point and fall. We have 1,400 years of Islamic history to show us what’s ahead when these nations are overtaken.

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  150. @sb32199

    “an outrageously high birth rate and an dreadfully short life expectancy”

    Despite your worthless opinion about the birth rate and despite life expectancy, which is steadily improving, the death rates in both Mozambique and Nigeria are lower than in Bulgaria, Russia, and Estonia.

    You see, rising, young populations fuel economic prosperity, which improves the quality of life, while aging, shrinking populations, put more burden on the young, cause labour shortages, lead to economic decline, which diminishes the quality of life. This explains why Africa’s economies are growing so much while U.S. and Europe’s are stagnant/shrinking and quality of life, declining.

    “Moreover, he’s pretty much a dictator.”

    Dictators don’t run for elections and then run again as incumbents.

    “But the African rates are unimpressive after accounting for the fact that the countries are so poor and so slow to exploit their natural resources.”

    There are many “poor” economies that are not growing, like Serbia and Albania to name a few. So yes, Nigeria’s consistent 6% growth rate is impressive. And Africa is the largest exporter of platinum, cobalt, diamonds, etc. It’s also the leading exporter of cocoa, which if withheld, would bankrupt many US and European companies. Make no mistake, the old European colonists are still much more dependent on Africa than vice versa, which is why they’ll do anything, including the French invading Mali and Cote d’Ivoire to maintain that dependency.

    “There’s surely nothing stopping them from learning how it’s done.”

    Western companies in Africa do employ Africans to do the dirty work, so they’ve already learned FYI. And there are African entrepreneurs who’ve built their own mining ventures, like Patrice Motsepe. But Motsepe’s company doesn’t have the luxury of getting some European gov’t to send in troops when his operations are threatened.

    “Pretty soon both countries will reach the tipping point and fall. ”

    While you’re looking in your crystal ball, maybe you can figure out a solution for the bigger problems that plague the West.

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  151. resw77, the subtext of your response makes it clear you believe most African nations are helpless states that are looking at a future very similar to the past.

    Your comparisons are, in fact, non-sequiturs.

    Meanwhile, AIDS is still ripping through Mozambique and many other African nations, which says a lot about how difficult it is to change human behavior. The unwillingness of individuals to change is going produce a lot of bloodshed as Islam spreads.

    Nigeria should be the Norway of Africa. Instead, half the population is still waiting for indoor plumbing and electricity.

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  152. resw77

    He has a pattern of saying it is such and such fault for not exploiting their land. I wonder if that is the back drop for all his arguments.

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  153. I spoke to soon. He just attempted to redirect. Lol

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  154. @ sb32199

    “from here in the US it looks like Africa is still sinking”

    Well, good to see that you know the difference between PERCEPTION (“…from here in the US…”) and REALITY (No, it is not sinking, as people on the ground can report to you. Be a little humbler and just ask them).

    “Yes, the economy of Mozambique is improving”
    Exactly. This is the reason why I objected before to your previous contention that “The African continent is a nightmare and it shows no signs of improving”.

    Good to see that you took the time to do your research and find the truth at last.
    But if I were your teacher I would suggest you deepen your research because some minor mistaken beliefs (perceptions?) remain. For example:

    “And the new government is not a democracy.”
    Wow. This is new to me. So far I know I’m going to vote in the next elections later this year as surely most of my fellow citizens in electoral age will do. If the country is not a democracy than I don’t know what it is. Not perfect? Surely. Not a democracy? Humm…

    “Literacy? Another disaster. But again, due to the high prevalence of Islam, it’s no surprise.”
    To answer this, let’s begin with “Islam”. You claim at least to things: 1) that there is a high prevalence of Islam in Mozambique, 2) that there is some relationship between Islam and illiteracy in Mozambique.
    You are wrong in both cases.
    First, the prevalence of Islam in Mozambique can not considered high (compared to other countries not only in Africa but worldwide). I will not dwell on this specific item but I suggest people who want to know better to do the proper research themselves. Mozambique was a Portuguese colony and as such a christian territory. The christian religion (catholic branch) was sponsored directly by the colonial state. Most of the high dignitaries of the state today come from christian families but they press to an equal treatment for all religious denominations. The state itself is secular.
    Second, illiteracy in Mozambique is uncorrelated to affiliation in a specific religious faith. Illiteracy is correlated, yes, to the uneven development level between the distinct regions of the country. This is a legacy of the colonial period and the situation is improving gradually. So far I know by direct observation, in Mozambique families who profess Islam are as likely as christian families to put their children in the school and to raise them as citizens as everybody else. So far I know no extremist tendency has manifested between them until now. By the way, I’m christian, and what I say above is simply the truth, not an indirect attempt to defend this specific group of our population.

    I’ll not go to speak more about Mozambique because I feel it’s off topic.

    When I cited above the Mozambican example the intention was to stress one simple idea: the strong resilience of African peoples in general in spite of adversity, and therefore to assure whoever is sympathetic to them that no Boko Haram of this world will be able to break the Nigerian people, despite their atrocities. The Mozambican example of a war that took longer to cease and was more total in territorial extension is there to everybody to see:

    1. The war was not able to break the demographic grow of the population. I would suggest to call this “biological resilience”. The overwhelming suffering brought by the war was not able to break this basic instinct and will of the African people to live and reproduce.
    2. Similarly and later, the AIDS epidemic was also not able to break the demographic grow again.
    3. The war didn’t break the capacity of families, in the spaces where they could (namely in urban areas) to raise properly their children, feed them and send them to school, etc. After the war all statistics about the number of persons with Bsc, Master and PhD degrees had grown significantly. The war didn’t stop life!
    4. The reconstruction years (we are in their midst!) saw a population joyfully ready in face of new challenges: teachers in schools, engineers and workers in civil construction, doctors in hospitals, etc working harder and harder to make their dream of a better future for the country to come true.

    The example conveys a message: despite the horror let’s not despair.

    We must feel outraged by the events. We must press whoever has responsibilities to do his/her best to help rescue the kidnapped girls (And I would appreciate help from the United States too. In times of need let’s not fool ourselves with false and inappropriate expressions of pride: wherever the help comes from should be welcome)

    But let’s no despair. Whatever the path that this episode takes, this is not something that can break an African people like the Nigerians, despite whatever the prophets of doom would want us to believe.

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  155. @sb32199

    Hi Jokah/churches!

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  156. @ sb32199

    “the subtext of your response makes it clear you believe most African nations are helpless states that are looking at a future very similar to the past.”

    No, I’ve actually stated that Africa’s “rising, young populations fuel economic prosperity” and “Africa’s economies are growing so much,” the West’s ongoing interference.

    “in fact, non-sequiturs”

    No that’s not a fact, but it does show your basic lack of understanding of non sequitur.

    “Meanwhile, AIDS is still ripping through Mozambique and many other African nations, which says a lot about how difficult it is to change human behavior. ”

    Now that is non sequitur. Difficulty in changing human behaviour does not follow the logic of your phrase about AIDS in Mozambique, especially considering the situation has in fact improved over the last decade.

    “Nigeria should be the Norway of Africa. Instead, half the population is still waiting for indoor plumbing and electricity.”

    Despite being polar opposites, Nigeria does not need to aspire to be Norway. Nigeria’s economy is growing more than twice as fast as Norway’s and the IMF expects that to quicken in ’14. Nigeria’s oil production is near all-time highs and Norway’s is at 25-yr lows.

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  157. resw77 and munu aka Bantu,

    If you two were delivering an accurate portrayal of Africa, it would be a different place.

    Yes, Islam is a problem, whether you can face that fact or not. Islam does control learning and it will limit what’s taught. As we know, Islamic nations are backward when it comes to science and engineering. They prohibit art and, of course, they stamp out free speech. You can be sure that sort of thing is ahead for both Mozambique and Nigeria.

    Meaningful literacy isn’t a measure of some reading, writing and arithmetic skills. The real measure is whether someone knows enough to perform useful work. Based on the per-capita Gross Domestic Product of African nations, the answer is a very clear “no”.

    As for the president of Mozambique, well, his election was so fraught with corruption that no one outside Mozambique considers the country to be a democracy.

    Anyway, you have to wonder why such resource-rich nations can’t successfully exploit their geological luck.

    As for your comment on oil production, well, more amusement. If Nigeria were producing oil at a rate that reflected the full potential of its oilfields, it’s production would multiply many times. Thus, when matched against itself, things aren’t so hot. Moreover, there have been major problems with refining in Nigeria. Then there’s that problem of the leadership stealing oil money.

    Norway, on the other hand, is dealing with the issue of depletion. The old North Sea reservoirs are being emptied. But fear not, Norway has managed its oil wealth intelligently, and there are other industries in Norway that absorb most workers. Its small population will not endure hardship as a result of the declining oil production.

    Like


  158. Herneith

    I interesting you mention that seeing as he does pop up to comment regularly after one of duckduck/churchs/ da jokah sock puppets get banned.

    Like


  159. @ Sharina, Lol!

    Just skimming through the thread, and noticed something similar.

    It’s odd that Norway is mentioned like it’s some shining apex of
    European Secular Blond Intelligence,
    because it’s a country riddled with corruption.
    That’s not my PoV, please note.

    The Angelwings have been pulled off by Norwegians themselves. The difference between Nigerian corruption and Norwegian corruption is that the latter is usually hidden.
    And called “Business”.

    Just ask “who is most currupt among the Nordics?”
    You’ll find headlines the priest charged with $2miillion fraud” / Norwegian public in fear of its crook politicians, and News in English which tells us:

    “Once considered squeaky clean and honest, Norwegian business and industry suddenly seem to have fallen under a cloud of corruption. Leading companies in which the state has a major stake have been hitting the headlines, suspected of bribery scandals, and now even the country’s enormous fishing industry is believed to be involved in some stinky business. It’s all said to be embarrassing for the country and its workers.”

    Also ‘helping’ along African countries like this….

    …last month that Statoil’s operations in Angola are also raising concerns because of the “mysterious partners” the Norwegian oil company is doing business with in order to engage in oil exploration and production off Angola’s coast….Statoil has invested more than $10 billion in Angola, which has become Statoil’s most important source of production outside Norway. Prospects for more exploration look set to increase the volume.

    The problem is that Angola is known for “extreme corruption risks”…{yet} the companies Statoil is cooperating with in Angola won’t reveal any information about their real owners and the country’s oil minister wouldn’t answer DN’s questions.

    Well, who would have thought that a European nation would ever stoop to making money in an African country? How unusual.

    Let’s not forget Norway’s had a major corruption scandal in Iran several years ago. And another in Uzbekistan. As well as securing lucrative contracts in Romania by criminal methods…
    http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/02/26/kongsberg-didnt-act-on-suspicions/

    They are also corrupt in their own fishing industry.
    It’s been a couple of years now that the rest of Europe has known how corrupt Norway is. I am not sure why Nigeria is held up like its antithesis.
    http://tundratabloids.com/2012/08/norway-corruption-exposed-no-longer-the-dainty-scandinavian-paradise-of-virtue-and-honesty-it-promotes-itself-as.html

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  160. Bulanik,
    it’s odd that Norway is mentioned like it’s some shining apex of European Secular Blond Intelligence, because it’s a country riddled with corruption.

    Linda says,

    for most white people like sb32199 (who might just be Asplund, DaJokah/Churchs), they don’t know about nor are they concerned about Europe’s corrupt politicians or big businesses who are just as sleazy as big American corporations.

    their goal is to hold up whiteness as some sort of beacon that shows what “is right in the world”, while closing their eyes to the “sins” committed by these same “righteous white warriors” — the ignorance is astounding.

    Thanks for bringing in the balance… Europe and the USA both have a lot to gain or lose in their struggle to retain “mineral and oil” rights in Africa… that’s why they are upset about China stepping into the game and that African countries are pulling away from them.

    Like


  161. Life quality is fantastic. This must explain why the suicide rates are so high.

    “Actually much of the world does aspire to be Norway,”

    Who was asked? because many Europeans do not aspire to be Norwegians.
    They think more highly of parts of Italy, or France.

    If countries have “brand” reputations, you won’t find Norway in there.
    In fact, it’s nowhere.
    http://www.swedishwire.com/jobs/6755-sweden-10th-most-admired-country-globally

    Like


  162. What you, Sam, are trying to do is enforce “branding” on a African countries and the continent. Note the choice of language:
    Failure
    Plague
    Far behnd
    Far below
    Very lowest
    inept… Could it get any worse.

    This is basic PR.
    A country’s reputation, its brand is CREATED and MANAGED to boost that country’s appeal to outsiders, and sustain its perception among its own nationals.

    Like all of a sudden Western Europe or the US is going to be telling the rest of the world they are any good…

    Like


  163. “Bulanik,
    Like all of a sudden Western Europe or the US is going to be telling the rest of the world they are any good”

    Linda says,

    but western Europe and the USA HAVE been controlling the Narrative all along in the western world, which in turn affected all of us.

    Hence, you have most people think that Africa is “bad” and every where else is “good” or least somewhat to hella better

    if Africa was so bad, then why, oh, Why can’t the Europeans let it go.. why do they choose to forge a link to the Continent of Africa, even going as far as trying to claim “indigenous white” status through the Berbers (overlooking the fact that Berbers carry black African DNA), so therefore, white Europeans are allowed to “claim” northern African history as part of “western European history”

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  164. that’s right…Africa is sooo bad Europeans NEVER wanted anything from Africa or Africans.
    Never ever. Nothing.
    Not the people, not the land, not what was under the land… they don’t even want the African markets’ buying power…

    Like


  165. You know…The very places that some people claim as bad they vacation at pretty often.

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  166. @ sb32199

    “Yes, Islam is a problem, whether you can face that fact or not. ”

    If that’s true then admit that Christianity is a worse problem, since Christian President George Bush started wars, just like every other Christian President of the U.S. And don’t forget that Christian leaders like Hitler killed millions and Christian countries today are much more violent than Muslim countries.

    “Based on the per-capita Gross Domestic Product of African nations, the answer is a very clear “no”.”

    Cuba’s literacy rate is higher than most European countries, but its GDP per capita is much lower, yet it’s not one of the richest. There are many productive people in society who don’t read and write in their country’s official language. And as Nigeria has 500 languages, it’s not surprising that many people can’t read and write in the colonial language.

    “no one outside Mozambique considers the country to be a democracy.”

    I’d like to see the survey that suggests that.

    And many people inside America don’t consider it a democracy either. Its gov’t is just a 2 party system funded by the same special interest groups and lead by the same old families and their cronies.

    “Its small population will not endure hardship as a result of the declining oil production.”

    That’s good you’re not concerned. But Norwegians are: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/08/us-norway-economy-insight-idUSBREA4703Z20140508

    Norway is a welfare state and that welfare is dependent on oil, contrary to your personal beliefs.

    @ Sam

    “Actually much of the world does aspire to be Norway, at least in terms of government functionality and economics.”

    And what survey told you much of the world aspires to be Norway? Nigeria’s economy has much more potential than Norway will ever have, and again, it’s improving, as opposed to most European countries that are worsening.

    “Although Nigeria has a larger total economy, it is far far behind Norway in terms of GDP per capita”

    Who’s debating that? The point I made was Nigeria is growing faster.

    “these high growth rates reflect the fact that the original economy was tiny”

    As I said to sb32199, poor, small economies can be stagnant or declining too, like Serbia or Albania, which people like you never care to mention.

    The reason Nigeria’s economy is growing so fast is because entrepreneurism is thriving and the colonial presence of Britain is diminishing. Britain’s long history in Nigeria had sever economic consequences since it cut off trade routes and took control of the economy by force, which of course is documented history.

    “Africa may be a resource-rich contident, but it will likely remain largely corrupt and inept”

    Not sure what a contident is, but corruption is global and exists in the West, including Norway, as Bulanik pointed out. And if Africa were so inept, then many European companies that depend on African resources and the African labourers who extract it wouldn’t exist, like Nestle, for example.

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  167. @Bulanik & Kwamala

    I dont understand how you two have reached your conclusions based on my comments. I am NOT apart of a Christian/Muslim propaganda war. I am NOT arguing Western superiority.

    Religion is primitive.

    Logic, reason, and rationality is superior to conformist, cave man thought. The location this thought is in does not matter.

    Like


  168. resw77
    In December 2004, Mozambique underwent a delicate transition as Joaquim CHISSANO stepped down after 18 years in office. His elected successor, Armando Emilio GUEBUZA, promised to continue the sound economic policies that have encouraged foreign investment. President GUEBUZA was reelected to a second term in October 2009.

    However, the elections were flawed by voter fraud, questionable disqualification of candidates, and Frelimo use of government resources during the campaign. As a result, Freedom House removed Mozambique from its list of electoral democracies.

    The Google list detailing the non-democratic reality of Mozambique is long and comprehensive. Here’s one entry

    [PDF]
    Overview of corruption and anti-corruption in Mozambique
    http://www.u4.no/publications/…corruption…corruption-in-mozambique/…/26...
    In Mozambique prevalence of corruption remains an … Nevertheless, Mozambique’s legal and institutional …. resources for campaigning, electoral fraud, and.

    Meanwhile, you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between the occasional rogue nation that includes many Christians among its citizens and the religious/political/military ideology of Islam that has been a destroyer of rights and a strangler of intellectual advancement.

    After 1,400 years of Islam doing its best to keep its unfortunate adherents in the 7th century, doing its dirty work wherever its followers are the majority in a state, its capacity for ruination should be easy to grasp.

    No Hitler and the Nazis were not Christians in any sense other than they were raised in some form of Christian framework. Hitler saw Christianity as a failure of the individual as well as something he could exploit as dictator. Meanwhile, no one ever begins a murderous rampage by yelling, Christ is great.

    Cubans are poor because their government doesn’t trust them to stick around if they were given the means to prosper. That’s why there’s no fishing industry in Cuba. Can’t let them offshore in boats that can reach Florida in a few hours. And they can’t find a barrel of oil in the Gulf of Mexico, from which the US extracts massive quantities.

    Poverty and wealth are always a function of the indigenous government. Lousy governments lead nations of poor people.

    Like


  169. ^^^^ LMAO.

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  170. sb32199 is neither duckduckgoofs/Churchs/Da Jokah or Asplund. Just throwing that out there.

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  171. I think quality of life is relative

    When I moved to Brazil from the States ,you could almost use the same arguments you see here, but, it really amounts to trade offs

    Snow is very detrimental to quality of life , in my opinion, and the richness of fruits ,and vegatables in Brazil is superior to most places

    Its hard for me to listen to criticsms of wars in Africa when Europe brought us two of the most devastating wars in the history of mankind and an ideology that has eliminated more than onehundred million people, these things still radicly affect the world today in negative ways

    Culture is relative also, the depth and quality of Afro diasporic culture is an engine that has impacted the planet and contributes immensly to quality of life , and pre Islamic, Christian culture in the various African countries, makes it mother Africa…thank gosh these tradicional cultures are still preserved , although outside influences theaten to bury and destroy these life enriching gifts passed down thousands of years

    I may never get there, but, id travel to Africa before id travel to Europe

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  172. Abagond

    I wonder if you are laughing at the fact that sb32199 pulled a source that days “page not found” or his paranoia of Islam when Mozambique only has 17.9% of muslims.

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  173. Kiwi

    No he is not, but he does seem to pop up when DCD gets banned.

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  174. Correction says*

    As to Hitler and his nazi’s not being Christian, I am curious on what source says that. You would get a maybe at best. In his speeches he gives reference to god and if I am not mistake there is a reference to god on part of the nazi uniform. It really depends on what Hitler you get.

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  175. @ Sam, do you think what I said about Norway was 100s of years ago.
    That information I provided was from Spring 2014.

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  176. Sam, you said:

    I never said that Africa was bad at being a continent, or that Africans were less worthy as people. My point is that an average life in Nigeria is significantly shorter, less educated, and poorer than a life in Norway or Denmark. The lack of education, longevity, and riches in most of Poor Africa is the fault of current governmental inadequacy in those countries. I wouldn’t use the word bad to describe poor Africa, but I would describe it as corrupt, poor, and undeveloped.

    The million dollar question is how did it get that way? Was it always like that since the beginning, or was it the result of outside forces whose descendants are still using the land for their own benefit?

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  177. I suspect some of these commenters get their idea on what Africa is by watching ‘Save the Children’ commercials and National Geographic.

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  178. Yes, it’s all apples for apples.

    I just love how the spotlight is on poor, corrupt, undeveloped Africa in comparison to the rich, modern and angelic Western world.

    Like bleeding a continent dry for 100s of years, leaving it half-dead, and after 50 or 60s years of getting further under-the-counter blood transfusions (whilst instigating and profiting from bloody conflicts), turning round and saying, all innocent-like : why are you anaemic?

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  179. @ The Pragmatist

    @Bulanik & Kwamala

    I dont understand how you two have reached your conclusions based on my comments. I am NOT apart of a Christian/Muslim propaganda war. I am NOT arguing Western superiority.

    Religion is primitive.

    Logic, reason, and rationality is superior to conformist, cave man thought. The location this thought is in does not matter.

    You want to say this is about religion and religiosity. It is far more than this.

    You classed the whole of the the Muslim World, or non-Christian non-Western peoples, as socially and intellectually backward.
    Not only do you NOT question that, you see no reason why you should learn anything about those peoples or places that would not confirm your sense of superiority over them.

    It’s no surprise then, that you don’t understand, and don’t WANT to understand anything Kwamla or I have tried to say.

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  180. Pragmatist:

    You say: I am not arguing Western superiority. I am not part of this Western propaganda war.

    Then, you say: these non-Western people cannot advance if they don’t become like the Western. They are like cave-men.

    Have you thought that you very much a product of your own culture?

    Like


  181. @Sharina

    resw77 said:

    … Christianity is a worse problem, since Christian President George Bush started wars, just like every other Christian President of the U.S. And don’t forget that Christian leaders like Hitler killed millions and Christian countries …

    Adolf Hilter’s anti-Semiticism was grounded in his Christian belief.
    Before he came to major power, he was in prison and whilst he was there he wrote about his struggles (Mein Kampf). In this book, he outlined that he did what did and believed what he believed because of his love and belief in God and Country. The Jew was the enemy of Christians.
    Hitler was brought up a Catholic and he believed in that the way forward for German greatness was a for it to be christianized.
    His Christian belief was often mentioned in speeches.
    He was no pagan, or athiest.

    He supported the Church, and the Church supported him:

    Religious quotes from him:
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views

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  182. Sharina, you mentioned:

    if I am not mistaken there is a reference to god on part of the nazi uniform..

    Is that true?

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  183. Not really sure how true it is because I read it here, but it has to do with the belt buckle. It reads Gott Mit uns.
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699/was-hitler-a-christian

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  184. Sorry. It can be confirmed here. http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

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  185. Thank you, Sharina. Now we know!! lol.

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  186. Its very revealing how these statistics get run through the analysing technique and the places coming up as the best quality of life are places like Norway or cities like Podunk Iowa..this is exactly why i dont trust statistics or studies just coming down the pike in quality of life, medical things, diet things, interracial relationships , what is right and wrong with sex , race issues etc etc

    In real life on the ground, it doesnt play out at all…there are many kinds of things that really enrich your life or bring “quality” that dont come through in statistics or studies

    I would never give up where I live for Norway..ever…im old enough that if some medical thing isnt top quality compared to Norway, my average daily quality of life is far superior, enriched and life giving in the past decades compared to the weeks i might get some poorer medical attention..give me the decades of really living life to the fullest

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  187. @ Sam

    to resw77, you said:

    The world aspires to be wealthy, well educated, and free from corruption, at least according to a unanimous vote in the UN….
    …Norway comes out far ahead of Nigeria.
    …Contrary to your belief the Norweigan economy did grow last quarter, as its distance from the Euro has prevented in from being consumed in Greece’s woes.

    It seems what you are really saying is that African countries are worse than European countries. And even if European countires are worse than first glance, then African countries will be even worser.

    The govts in Africa are inept you say, then you wantsto say it isn’t the Africans who are inept. Is it all non-Africans in Africa’s various govts then?
    Yet, when it’s shown that the Norwegians are corrupt and incompetent, that’s not a big deal… and go on back at screwed-up Africa…because there is nothing good or positive to say about Africa and Africans.
    Because every African country has failed to be like Europeans, and I wonder why?

    You mention Greece and you also mention what the world aspires to be like.
    According to a BBC poll, it is Germany that is most popular country in the world. The reason: because of “diligent German diplomacy”, and frequent tours to other countries to markets German goods. Basically, PR and trade.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-22624104

    Not surprisingly, in “debt-laden Greece” the majority of people polled gave Germany negative ratings. Do you think that’s because Greeks are inept, don’t sell enough and can’t manage their resources like Germans can?

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  188. @ Sam

    “The world aspires to be wealthy, well educated, and free from corruption…Norwegian governance represents all these traits ”

    See Bulanik’s link that points out multiple instances of corruption in Norway.

    “HDI ratings show that quality is quite poor in Nigeria”

    Right, because Nigeria is not a welfare state. It does not have Socialism like in Norway, which when implemented many years ago, lifted many poor Norwegians out of poverty. Nigeria is much more capitalist and Norway’s Socialist state is nothing free market capitalists aspire to mimic.

    “Contrary to your belief the Norweigan economy did grow last quarter”

    That’s not my belief, nor is that anything I said or implied.. I just pointed out the fact that Nigeria is growing twice as fast as Norway.

    “I do not argue that Serbia and Albania are terrible places to live with stagnant economies”

    That’s fine, but you suggested that the only reason Nigeria is growing so fast is b/c it’s GDP per capita is low. I used Serbia and Albania as examples to prove you wrong.

    “but it is the fault of Nigeria’s politicians that after over 50 years of independent rule most of the problems from colonial rule remain present in Nigerian society.”

    Nigeria is a former colony that Britain created in complete disregard of hundreds of nations and ethnic groups that each had their own languages, customs, and legal systems.

    But If you want to apply the same standard to Great Britain, then Britain was a horrible place 50 yrs after it became a kingdom. It was fighting various civil wars, wars abroad, was deep in debt, and most Britons were diseased and impoverished.

    “they are people and run the gambit from lazy and worthless to heroes of the workforce.”

    Just like in Europe and the US where sluggards can not work but collect a check from the government.

    “Without corruption or policy impediments like this, Nigeria could be advanced much more quickly as a country”

    Opining as such “would be counter-factual,” to use your own phrase. But while you’re speculating, please also tell us how much more advanced US and UK and Norway would be without corruption they have. Maybe they’d have less need for their Socialist programs and free money to sluggards.

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  189. @sb32199

    How about this from the New York Times:

    “With the presidency hanging on the outcome in Florida, the Bush team quickly grasped that the best hope of ensuring victory was the trove of ballots still arriving in the mail from Florida residents living abroad. Over the next 18 days, the Republicans mounted a legal and public relations campaign to persuade canvassing boards in Bush strongholds to waive the state’s election laws when counting overseas absentee ballots.

    Their goal was simple: to count the maximum number of overseas ballots in counties won by Mr. Bush, particularly those with a high concentration of military voters, while seeking to disqualify overseas ballots in counties won by Vice President Al Gore.

    A six-month investigation by The New York Times of this chapter in the closest presidential election in modern American history shows that the Republican effort had a decided impact. Under intense pressure from the Republicans, Florida officials accepted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state laws.”

    “you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between the occasional rogue nation that includes many Christians among its citizens and the religious/political/military ideology of Islam that has been a destroyer of rights and a strangler of intellectual advancement.”

    And isn’t it ironic that Islam brought to Europe a society of human rights (e.g. freedom of religion) and intellectual advancement (e.g. Europe’s first university).

    So is US a rogue nation too? Britain and France? They all have military around the world who kill innocent civilians.

    ” its capacity for ruination should be easy to grasp”

    And Christianity’s capacity for ruination should be easier to grasp, considering how quickly Christian nations are becoming non-religious and/or atheists.

    “No Hitler and the Nazis were not Christians in any sense”

    He in fact called himself a Christian.

    “Meanwhile, no one ever begins a murderous rampage by yelling, Christ is great.”

    I guess you’ve never heard of the Army of God, Anders Behring Breivik, etc.

    “Cubans are poor because their government doesn’t trust them…”

    So what happened to your assertion that literacy caused wealth?

    Like


  190. I see there’s another Sam here. Just to let you all know it is not me. 😀 I think abagond knows this too.

    Like


  191. @ the other sam: It is good to remember that Norway was pretty poor country untill the oil was found. Norwegian wealth is based on that.

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  192. @George Ryder

    Norway is completely irrelevant, but sb32199 brought up Norway as some sort of archetype to which Nigeria should aspire. I only suggested that in some ways, like economic growth and entrepreneurism, Nigeria is progressing well and does not need to become a welfare state.

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  193. @ sb

    “The Google list detailing the non-democratic reality of Mozambique is long and comprehensive. Here’s one entry”

    I can play that Google game too. Google “US is an oligarchy” and you get stuff like this:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

    The study shows that the US is a functioning oligarchy, not a working democracy.

    “After 1,400 years of Islam doing its best to keep its unfortunate adherents in the 7th century, doing its dirty work wherever its followers are the majority in a state, its capacity for ruination should be easy to grasp.”

    The Muslim world was far more intellectually advanced than the Christian world from at least 800 to 1250.

    Spain used to be the intellectual jewel of Europe if not the world – under Muslim rule. Christians took over and gave us what? The Inquisition and the destruction of the Americas. Makes Boko Haram, the Taliban and al Qaeda look like wankers.

    “Meanwhile, no one ever begins a murderous rampage by yelling, Christ is great.”

    White Americans wiped out Native Americans thinking it was God’s will.

    For example, here is William Bradford, a Pilgrim, at a massacre of Native Americans:

    “It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stink and scent thereof; but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice, and they gave the praise thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to enclose their enemies in their hands and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enemy.”

    More:
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/mystic-massacre/

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  194. interesting thought vector: why dont more african countries shun and reject western influence and the siphoning off of capital like mugabe did? and allowing us expeditionary forces? somethings going on there, perhaps this is how the ruling elite over there takes care of themselves through backchannel deals with the oil/mining/etc companies and foreign expansionist regimes?

    Like


  195. Sam and sami are not the same person. But Sam and Lola are. In fact, Sam/Lola was banned for using a sock puppet, so I am deleting all of his/her recent comments…

    Like


  196. As far as I know the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler.

    Like


  197. sami parkkonen

    I knew it was not you. He like sb pops up now and then. Usually after the banning of one troll or another.

    Like


  198. @ sb

    “Meanwhile, you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between the occasional rogue nation that includes many Christians among its citizens and the religious/political/military ideology of Islam that has been a destroyer of rights and a strangler of intellectual advancement.”

    Christians burned and banned books. They banned Galileo. They burned Greek and Mayan works that are now lost forever. Some Greek works, particularly those about science and mathematics, come down to us only through copies and translations made by Muslims.

    Christians opposed the teaching of heliocentrism. They opposed the teaching of evolution, something that lasts down to our own day.

    The Christians who do these things do them in the name of religion.

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  199. I think life expectancy is a good measure but GDP per capita blows.

    For one, GDP per capita does not measure inequality. The GDP per capita in the US is 50% higher now than in 1985, adjusted for inflation, but nearly all of the gains went to the top 20%. In New York City it is visibly apparent. Meanwhile stuff like health care and university education are way more expensive.

    For countries like Nigeria or Ethiopia, where tons of people live “off the grid”, like subsistence farmers whose economic activity is largely outside the market economy, GDP per capita becomes even more misleading.

    GDP measures

    – schooling, but not homeschooling,
    – nursing homes but not taking care of an aged relative,
    – cooking for a restaurant but not cooking for your family,
    – doctors, hospitals and drugs but not good health,
    – prisons but not safe streets,
    – divorce lawyers but not happy marriages.

    There is an inbuilt bias in GDP that makes government and market-based solutions, even bad ones, appear as a “better quality of life”.

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  200. @abagond

    Good point about GDP per capita. Just b/c GDP rises (or is high) does not always mean poverty declines (or is low). Equatorial Guinea is a good example of a country with a relatively high rate, but vast inequality.

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  201. @abagond

    I don’t think life expectancy necessarily has to do with “quality of life.” It is highly affected by infant mortality rates. Let’s say that in a certain country, people prefer to have births at the home for cultural reasons, which increases the likelihood of infant mortality. This would bring down the life expectancy of that society. But let’s also say that in another society, most people give birth at hospital and the hospitals classifies most infant mortalities in hospitals as stillborns, like China and Japan have been known to do. This inevitably inflates life expectancy.

    So it is possible that the average person in a society with a low life expectancy can live a long, healthy and happy life, while in others, people can live short, unhealthy and miserable lives.

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  202. GDP is a useful, rational tool.
    I realise that GDP also has a layered dimension to it that broadens it out,
    but now that I think about it, the exasperation I was feeling with the way the commenter who was using it, was the unquestioned acceptance of its underlying Eurocentrism.
    A bit like the way “poor country” / “developing world” can really mean:
    “over-exploited place by absent colonial power”.

    So: The world aspires to be wealthy, well educated, and free from corruption, at least according to a unanimous vote in the UN…. is the presumption of universality over all other civilizations. Something arrived at through imposition, rape, theft, military might, subjugation, or — Europeanization by violence.
    It’s not ideology-free. And, it definitely includes the economic system. GDP is an indicator of Progress. How far a country is coming along.

    It makes me wonder that wealth and quality of life appear as interchangeables. I thought some cultures, especially some African cultures associate different values to those things.

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  203. To Abagond:

    As far as I know the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler.

    There’s some debate on Wikipedia but multiple people who stated they could read German and/or Italian stated that it was correct:

    “In February 1931, the German bishops excommunicated all active Nazi party members.”

    “The documents indicate that any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.”

    “By 1937 all Catholic newspapers, organizations and schools had been suppressed. So Pope Pius XI issued an Encyclical: Mit Brennender Sorge (With Burning Sorrow), condemning the Nazi regime’s treatment of the Church. It was smuggled to every church in Germany and read out simultaneously on Sunday 14th March 1937.”

    http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/archives-show-church-excommunicated-nazis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0020.html

    “For Jewish leaders of a previous generation, this harsh portrayal of Pope Pius XII, and the campaign of vilification against him, would have been a source of profound shock and sadness. From the end of World War II until at least five years after his death, Pope Pius enjoyed an enviable reputation amongst Christians and Jews alike. At the end of the war, Pius XII was hailed as “the inspired moral prophet of victory,” and “enjoyed near-universal acclaim for aiding European Jews.” Numerous Jewish leaders, including Albert Einstein, Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett, and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog, expressed their public gratitude to Pius XII, praising him as a “righteous gentile,” who had saved thousands of Jews during the Holocaust. In his meticulously researched and comprehensive 1967 book, Three Popes and the Jews, the Israeli historian and diplomat Pinchas Lapide, who had served as the Israeli Counsel General in Milan, and had spoken with many Italian Jewish Holocaust survivors who owed their life to Pius, provided the empirical basis for their gratitude, concluding that Pius XII “was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.” To this day, the Lapide volume remains the definitive work, by a Jewish scholar, on the subject. “

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  204. Hitler’s formal excommunication is debateable.
    In an earlier post about Hitler’s christianity, there was reference to the mutual support between the Church and Hitler. There were some accompanying photos to show that, and one of the photos of Hitler and clergy feature him wth Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio (Diplomat of the Pope) in Berlin, 1935.

    The caption of this photo reads:
    On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany” and added with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.”

    (2nd row down in this link:http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm)
    So although the German bishops had excommunicated all active Nazis, they were later were being instructed to warmly congratulate Hitler on his birthday.

    This was also the time fascist Italy, and excommunication is not always done publicly — Hitler had excommunicated himself by his actions pretty early on.
    And, it’s not as though excommunication acts like political punishment, it’s more of an invitation to reform before re-acceptance.
    Someone can also be excommunicated after their death.

    Catholics and clergy had to tow the Nazi line and those who spoke out were murdered just like other dissenters. There was even a dedicated barracks for the clergy at Dachau Concentration Camp — naturally with a racial hierachy: Germans on top, Poles below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp

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  205. The relationship between the Catholic Church and the Nazis changed over time and there were certain spikes and lows in tensions. Among German historians the consensus is that they cooperated in many ways while they were both aware that they were ideologically incompatible. The Chruch hoped to survive the Nazi regime and the Nazis postponed the fight against christianity to after victory. In general one might say the Church was friendlier to the Nazis than vice versa.

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  206. In today’s New York Times

    Opinion Today
    Op-Ed Contributors

    The Kidnapping of a Country

    By LAUREN BOHN and CHIKA ODUAH
    Boko Haram is not the only problem desperate Nigerians are facing.

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  207. abagond says: Christians burned and banned books. They banned Galileo.

    Five Hundred Years Ago. The world has changed. Democracies replaced the theocracies and monarchies in charge at that time. At that time, banning books might matter, though literacy rates were low, so who knows what the impact was, though I suppose public readers and story tellers may have been put out of business.

    Meanwhile, book banning in the US today is merely symbolic. Parents object and want a book taken from the school library. As if that matters.

    They burned Greek and Mayan works that are now lost forever. Some Greek works, particularly those about science and mathematics, come down to us only through copies and translations made by Muslims.

    Ridiculous. Gutenberg’s printing press went into operation around 1450. That changed the world, or at least the part of the world that knew how to make use of printed materials. The fact that some original copies of rare books were destroyed does not mean the content was lost forever. Even if it were, so what? Does it matter that some ancient thought was lost? No.

    Meanwhile, the first printing press to appear in Egypt took 400 years to make the trip across the Mediterranean. The Islamic leadership of Egypt didn’t want to expose the people to the threat of publications made by infidels.

    You have the idea that there’s only one path for all things, as though knowledge of science, which was pretty limited 500 years ago, or knowledge of math would have been lost if it weren’t recorded by hand in some books put together by one group of people.

    Christians opposed the teaching of heliocentrism. They opposed the teaching of evolution, something that lasts down to our own day.

    The Christians who do these things do them in the name of religion.

    Every wrong theory looks especially ridiculous in hindsight. The difference between Christians/Westerners and Muslims lies in the Christian willingness to let go of the old mistaken ideas after the mistakenness of the old ideas becomes apparent. The Earth at the center of the solar system, for one.

    What’s up for debate now? The make up of atoms. Subatomic particles. Take note that no advances in science or mathematics emerge from Islamic nations. The Islamic world hasn’t recorded an original thought for about 1,000 years.

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  208. resw77, would you rather live in an Islamic theocracy? A European or Scandinavian nation? Or the US or Canada?

    If none of the above, which nation or nations do you believe are acceptable places for you?

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  209. Sb32199

    1. Posting an article from the opinion section of the new York times is not proof of anything but an opinion, but since you did all that just to copy and paste the title and location (not hard to post a link either) I will address it. It supports more of what others have said in here than it supports your claims. So once again I am in awe on how quick you try to change sides of an argument in any debate. I am going to be even more at awe watching you argue it as if that was your position to begin with.

    2. “Five Hundred Years Ago.”—–Does it matter? The real point is you are holding one religion to one standard, yet condemning the other.

    3.” Christian willingness to let go of the old mistaken ideas after…”—–that really depends on if you mean a public show for approval or the truth behind it. There are Christian churches to this day that still believe the mark of Cain means black and will not allow blacks in the church.

    4.”What’s up for debate now?”—-I figured you would tell us seeing as you are jumping from one subject to the next.

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  210. Islam, the world’s fastest growing religion. Stealing Christian girls from their beds and forcing them to convert to Islam. Killing anyone that renounces Islam. I mean, how can it not be the world’s fastest growing religion?

    Pregnant Christian woman sentenced to death for renouncing Islam in Sudan

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/15/pregnant-christian-woman-sentenced-death-renouncin/?

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  211. Sharina says: 2. “Five Hundred Years Ago.”—–Does it matter? The real point is you are holding one religion to one standard, yet condemning the other.

    Islam is as brutal and backward today as it was 1,400 years ago and 500 years ago. It doesn’t evolve because its followers have successfully created Islamic theocracies that are capable of standing firm against modernization of this ideology. The has never been a “Reformation” or any kind of Renaissance in the Islamic world. And it’s obvious there’s no great leap forward coming soon.

    On the other hand, Christianity has evolved. For more than one reason. Not least is the separation of church and state that’s taken place over the last 250 years.

    3.” Christian willingness to let go of the old mistaken ideas after…”—–that really depends on if you mean a public show for approval or the truth behind it. There are Christian churches to this day that still believe the mark of Cain means black and will not allow blacks in the church.

    The behavior of a few Christian outposts is meaningless. Those little pockets of nitwits are in charge of nothing but their own little parish, which has no impact on the broader society.

    Anyway, it appears you’re somewhat sympathetic to Islam, an ideology that makes women second-class citizens, at best. At other times, women are slaves with no rights. In the Islamic world there’s no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no tolerance for anything except Islam. Yet you’re warm to it.

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  212. @ SB32199

    I have to wonder if you understand the concept of posting a link because it would greatly save the amount of space you took up posting a whole article (I read the article already by the way).
    Abracadabra *poof*

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/opinion/the-kidnapping-of-a-country.html?_r=0

    A link.

    Still is an opinion and it still does not provide any more proof from what others have already said, so your point in providing it means? What are you trying to prove with it?

    1. “Islam is as brutal and backward today as it was 1,400 years ago and 500 years ago etc…”—-That it great but what does that have to do with the fact that you are holding each to a different standard? There are and have been efforts on the part of Muslim activist to have this Islamic “renaissance.” Though the issue is that what some extreme groups of Muslims do it taken as a reflection of them all. Yet you will not hear a peep in regards to extreme Christian groups.

    http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=DW0405-2313

    http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men?page=0%2C1

    The only evolving that has really occurred in the Christian world is you will hear about their extreme acts less and they are not violent to the degree of their extreme Islamic counter parts, but make no mistake on the idea of them evolving. Now you could fall back on the “only a few” argument, but then that would mean you are contradicting your original statement.

    2. “The behavior of a few Christian outposts is meaningless. Those little pockets of nitwits are in charge of nothing but their own little parish, which has no impact on the broader society.”—But I am not talking about a few Christian nitwits(If I were I would not bring it up). I am actually talking about a whole sect who carry this idea to this day. For example southern Baptist actually fully believe this. Now not all of them are willing to exclude them from the church but most are certainly teaching and telling darker members that much prayer can make them lighter. Furthermore I find it interesting that in light of Christian backward behavior you are willing to write it off as a few nitwits but are willing to condemn all or most Muslims to being hostile. Let us play on that for a moment. Even if it actually were a few nitwits, that really does not change the fact that your original statement claimed “Christian willingness to let go of the old mistaken ideas after.” Apparently not all Christians are willing to “let go of the old mistaken ideas after.”

    3. “Anyway, it appears you’re somewhat sympathetic to Islam, an ideology that makes women second-class citizens, at best. At other times, women are slaves with no rights. In the Islamic world there’s no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no tolerance for anything except Islam. Yet you’re warm to it.”—Just because I have a keen eye for hypocrisy does not mean I am “warm” to something.

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  213. @ sb

    Deleting your cut and paste of the “Kidnapping of a Country” as spam since you did not even tell us why we should be reading it.

    Please summarize its contents in a paragraph or two and provide a link. Or, better yet, make a point and then say why we should click in the link.

    Please do not archive the Internet on my blog.

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  214. Sharina, it’s clear you simply don’t understand that Islam is a religious/political/military ideology that has led to the creation of many Islamic theocracies that exist in the world today. Monarchies, no less.

    There is NOTHING comparable in the Christian world. Your Southern Baptist observations are meaningless. As I said, they — the Southern Baptists — influence nothing. They have no power outside their individual parishes. They do not make laws and they do not control civil society.

    You may not approve of the private bias that might exist among Southern Baptists, but private bias is not government policy. On the other hand, in the Islamic world, bias against non-muslims is enshrined by Quranic law.

    Neither you nor I are permitted into Mecca or Medina. But anyone can visit the Vatican.

    Meanwhile, the views of Southern Baptists are subordinated to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Whereas, in Islamic nations nothing like our Constitution and Bill of Rights can exist because it would put Muhammad, Allah and the Quran in the subordinate position, which is not permitted in Islam.

    Anyway, would you like to live in an Islamic theocracy? Or would you prefer to live in the US and have Southern Baptists for neighbors?

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  215. @Bulanik

    Well; if you weren’t trying to say that homosexuals cancels out honor killings what were you trying to say?
    And admitably I don’t claim to be an expert on things….because I was honestly unware that it was just “that” bad in Turkey.
    I considered them backwards in the same way I consider rednecks backwards……turns out I was a bit generous in my view point.
    Going by your posts I was slightly confused by your stance as to whether you were pro-or anti-.
    By going out of their way to justify it; I mean they have to bend and twist every action, every perspective no matter how benign or even pointless into one that supports their views even if that includes full on conspiracy craziness.
    That they can not except any reality or thought about something that even slightly goes outside the barriers of their perspective.
    They hate and so they can only see things in some one, person or group that can be hateful. Any other perspective or position is something they can’t allow for a second.
    So no matter what is done or not done….it does not matter because they will always find or create something to justify their hate.

    That and people will try to defend something no matter how reprehensible just to be “cool” or rebellious.
    While throwing all the other causes they have ever served under the bus to help support one that might be totally against it.
    Because it’s not the cause that matters or the ideas or the values simply the fight.
    @Linda

    It’s not about their not being enough; it’s about foreign workers being cheaper and not having to be promoted thanks to racism.
    Pure numbers we actually already have “more” scientists than we need on a pure “job” basis.

    About Africa as a whole; isn’t it beginning to industrialize and isn’t something like 90% of its population actually middle class?
    The AIDs problem; isn’t that being further exasperated by the catholic church telling a lot of the people there that condoms don’t work?

    Also aren’t Cubans poor partially because we have trade embargo’s going on with them or some such sort of thing?

    I’m also not sure it’s fair to say there are no “modern” Muslims; you might hear of the odd honor killing in the US but on a whole I can’t say I’ve heard of anything that paints Muslims in the US in a bad light and even then it’s usually the older generations and not the younger or current ones.

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  216. @ sb

    You are ignorant and brainwashed when it comes to Islam. It is like you get all your information from Fox News or something. Or at least from people who know next to nothing. Also, like Sharina said, you keep applying a double standard when comparing Muslim and Christian societies.

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  217. I think it was Eddie Griffin who said: “Christians say Jesus is the messenger. Muslims say Muhammed is the messenger. I say: Did you get the message??”

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  218. @sb32199

    “Sharina, it’s clear you simply don’t understand that Islam is a religious/political/military ideology that has led to the creation of many Islamic theocracies that exist in the world today.”=I just lost this argument so I will try to discredit you by saying “you don’t understand.” I am not mad at you because it is only human nature to reach for some type of life support when one is sinking.

    Welcome to religion. What you describe above is the act of most if not all religion and Christianity is not any different. You basically sign your political death sentence if you identify as anything other than a god fearing Christian.

    “There is NOTHING comparable in the Christian world. Your Southern Baptist observations are meaningless. As I said, they — the Southern Baptists — influence nothing. They have no power outside their individual parishes. They do not make laws and they do not control civil society.”—My southern Baptist observation is only an example of one meaning it is not the only religious sect that does it. Though its purpose was more so to prove you wrong about the claim that “Christian willingness to let go of the old mistaken ideas.” Even still the mark of Cain incident is yet again only one example of mistaken ideas that the Christian church has yet to let go of. Southern Baptist, like other sects of Christianity, may not make laws but carry a great deal of influence on laws and some level of control of the civil society. If elected, and usually one is, then he thus has more control over the law making process and how society will function in their particular areas. Christianity has more of a foothold than many would like to believe. It is the non-religious bunch that is fighting to break the roles that Christianity is playing in society. All forms of Christianity influence something to some degree.

    “On the other hand, in the Islamic world, bias against non-muslims is enshrined by Quranic law.”—Ah so Christian bias is more acceptable because it is not a law, but is simply a bias carried out by society?

    “Neither you nor I are permitted into Mecca or Medina. But anyone can visit the Vatican.”—You are also not permitted to visit a Mormon temples, but that religion is still Christianity. Furthermore You can’t even visit all of the Vatican at your will. I find it quite interesting that you bring up the Vatican when it is a religious state of its own (own laws judges etc) yet you are upset at Muslims for doing it. ROFL…Must be because it won’t allow the visits to Mecca or Medina.

    “Anyway, would you like to live in an Islamic theocracy? Or would you prefer to live in the US and have Southern Baptists for neighbors?”—I would prefer neither, but either way I could care less.

    In fact does not the law and constitution mention god?

    http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

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  219. I particularly love this quote from that source.

    “It may surprise you (or perhaps not) to learn that some state constitutions specifically deny certain civil privileges to non-believers.”

    Christianity ladies and gentlemen.

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  220. No, v4 Cuba can get anything it wants from the rest of the world, it gets huge amounts of oil from Venezuela, China makes a huge amount of stuff, and they do business, Canadians are tourists , so im sure they can trade…

    Cuba went into a tail spin when its big sponser the Soviet Union colapsed
    they only use the embargo as their eternal excuse, but in fact, Marxist beaurocratic crud is what is plaguing them…they commited to the flawed side that just doesnt work..even their health care is suspect..ive brought in frightening pictures…and racism continues in cuba like all the Americas where they brought slaves from Africa

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  221. Brazil just made a huge deal to run a shipping port out of Cuba, and Cuba has sent their surplus of doctors to Brazil, where they only pay them a small amount and the rest of the money Brazil pays goes into Castros coffers

    of course a few doctors have defected complaining about this
    Cuba can do business with most of the world if it wants to

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  222. abagond, my views on Islam have been shaped by several factors. But the work of Bernard Lewis, Professor of Middle East Studies at Princeton is the easiest for you to check. There are other professors of similar stature whose work I’ve read, and there are many journalists who’ve covered the region who arrived somewhat optimistically and left with an understanding that Islam is a nightmare.

    And I’ve been there.

    Even Mark Twain, in Innocents Abroad (not a novel) concluded as much.

    Then there is the Quran itself. Give a shot to reading the first page or two. Then read the first page of the Bible. Their perspectives on humanity form polar opposites. And, of course, the Quran is the basis of law throughout the Islamic world, whereas the Bible is not.

    If you believe Muslims are just plain folks, you should ask yourself why nothing is invented there? Or why they produce no art? Or why there’s no freedom of speech and no freedom of religion?

    Whereas, in capitalist democracies people invent, make art and enjoy free speech and freedom of religion.

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  223. George R.

    I would first like to say I respect a Christian who takes the time to view information on other religions.

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  224. Sb32199

    Where on earth did you get the idea that nothing was invented by Muslims and that they don’t produce art? Have you ever been to a website called “Google,” where you can look almost anything up that you want?

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  225. So because they don’t invent things (though Muslims have a history of inventing) and they don’t engage in art (not sure what way to roll my eyes) they are bad people? ROFL
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/muslim-artists/

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  226. George Ryder, really dude, the Quran and the Bible, they’re different. A lot different.

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  227. @ V-4

    Sorry: I don’t really understand what you are trying to say.
    Some people are taught to try and keep an independent mind, and look beyond the obvious, to try and NOT one see everything as either black or white. That confuses you, doesn’t it?
    I feel you look down your nose at different cultures, and therefore haven’t a clue about views that don’t fit your closed perspective.
    Or, perhaps you are angered when non-Americans don’t flatter the US.
    Or, perhaps you are simply an Islamphobe; maybe you dislike Turkish people you’ve never met, and generally Muslims you don’t know in places you’ve never visited. You might think you are better off for it, too, but you don’t know for sure, do you?
    Perhpas you are a very conservative and narrow-minded and blinded by patriotism, but consider yourself to be “generous” and righteous and in your outlook.
    I simply don’t know if ANY of that is true — so, V-4, don’t tell me about presenting information here because it looks “cool” or rebellious.

    This blog is an open discussion: if you, or anyone, don’t like something that is being said, then refute the argument with a counter-argument and/or suppporting materials. It’s that simple.
    That is far better than making incomprehensible complaints.

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  228. king, the Islamic world has invented virtually nothing. Why? Invention diminishes Muhammad and Allah. Thus, it doesn’t happen.

    Why don’t you look into the world of patents and see where they originate. If that doesn’t convince you, visit an Islamic nation and check what’s there.

    They manufacture nothing except what manufacturers/distributors like GE permit them to assemble. They don’t build cars, computers, airplanes. Yeah, they stitch clothes for buyers in other countries.

    As for art, maybe you need a better understanding of the term. There are some Islamic crafts that are impressive. Tile work, mosaics, mosque-related stuff. But in Islam the next closest thing are the old illuminated manuscripts.

    Visit the Islamic art room at any museum and you notice that it’s small, and the work falls into the narrow vein of being craft-work, not art for the sake of art.

    And you know they don’t approve of creating images of Muhammad. Big no-no.

    Meanwhile, there are virtually no writers of consequence in the Islamic world. Salman Rushdie was marked for death for writing the Satanic Verses because some imams thought it somehow mocked Islam.

    In the historical context the only writer of stature in the Islamic world is probably Omar Khayyam. Since the establishment of the Nobel Prizes, maybe on muslim has won a Nobel for Literature.

    They don’t win Nobel prizes for medical sciences, physics, chemistry or economics. Islam has been on a long intellectual dry spell since the time it was no longer able to conquer others who developed knowledge that Muslims would then absorb into their world.

    In one sense they were like the Internet. The conquered people were forced to learn Arabic. As a result, whenever there was a conquest, the Muslims would spread their intellectual plunder through their world.

    But they themselves were never very good at coming up with original ideas. And the backwardness of today’s Islamic nations supports that point.

    Don’t forget, all those tall buildings they put up in the Saudi Arabia and the UAE are designed by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, a US architectural firm, and the buildings are further engineered by other western companies. Sometimes Korean company handle the actual construction.

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  229. Sb32199

    You lost your argument the moment you opened your mouth or typed and submitted your response. Your claim was that they do not produce those things. You are thus far being intellectual dishonest and a down right charlatan.

    “As for art, maybe you need a better understanding of the term.”—–I doubt anyone does. What you are doing here is trying to change the meaning to dig yourself out of the hole you happily crawled in. If anything you look more of a paranoid individual looking for relatively useless things to support your Muslim bias. You would be better off saying you just don’t like them rather than the excuse of art and intentions. None of which have any basis.

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  230. @ sb, I haven’t read your previous posts, but you from your last comment, your fear and loathing of Muslims dominates your rational mind.

    Invention diminishes Muhammad and Allah. Thus, it doesn’t happen.

    Where in the Koran and hadiths doe it say that, sb?

    Why don’t you look into the world of patents and see where they originate

    Patents, as we know it in the modern West, began was only formalised in the 17th century in England. Humans had been inventing stuff thousands of years before that. You are trying to prove something that doesn’t exist as a concept.
    Where do you think the words Chemistry, or Algebra or Algorithm come from?
    Arabic, the language used by Muslims during the age those things were being formed…You’ve never heard of Ibn al-Haytham? One of the fields he worked in was optics, and it was his research that was the basis of the camera.
    You know that, in the field of medicine, cauterization and phlebotomy, were 2 technique, among many others, that were pioneered by Muslim doctors, along with anaesthsia and antiseptics, and even hospitals?
    This is so basic, I wonder whether I should go on…

    But…I’lll persist a little longer, because, along with other almost-irrational things you say, is that if someone visits an Islamic nation, he or she won’t find anything there! Priceless!

    Then I must ask you, which Islamic nations did you go to learn that TRUTH?
    There are many countries that have a sizeable Muslim population, from Afghanistan to Brunei, China to Burkina Faso, Egypt to India, Russia to Suriname — you mean none of these places have anything in them because Muslims live there?

    Then, you talk about Art.
    Some of the commenters here are also artists, but you seem to be saying that they “need a better understanding of the term”.
    I am not sure what mean by that.

    Muslims are only capable of CRAFTS, you say? Craft must be low down the pole as far as Art goes, then?
    Btw, have you seen the painting of the Mughals, the Ottomans or the Persians?
    -Do you know the artistic skill required to produce an Oriental Rug?
    -Have you ever examined Mamluk glassware closeup?
    -What do you know about architecture?
    Some of the finest Western art is in churches and depict religious scenes. That doesn’t diminish the art produced. Same with the art of mosques, and the art you see IN them, too.

    Literature? Heard of Naguib Mahfouz or Orhan Pamuk? Nobel prize holders. But what is the Nobel Prize but a European instutition for prize-giving.
    Rumi was a Muslim writing poetry many centuries before, and is loved by Europeans and Asians and Africans. The Book of One Thousand and One Nights, as told by Queen Sherazade is a classic of literature… You don’t think a white English man wrote it, did you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#Medical_contributions_from_medieval_Islam

    You say:

    Visit the Islamic art room at any museum, and you notice that it’s small

    Seriously, how many museums do you visit? I simply googled the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and under Islamic art, this list list came up:

    The Art of the Abbasid Period (750–1258)
    The Art of the Almoravid and Almohad Periods (ca. 1062–1269)
    The Art of the Ayyubid Period (ca. 1171–1260)
    The Art of the Book in the Ilkhanid Period
    The Art of the Fatimid Period (909–1171)
    The Art of the Ilkhanid Period (1256–1353)
    The Art of the Mamluk Period (1250–1517)
    The Art of the Mughals after 1600
    The Art of the Mughals before 1600
    The Art of the Nasrid Period (1232–1492)
    The Art of the Ottomans after 1600
    The Art of the Ottomans before 1600
    The Art of the Safavids before 1600
    The Art of the Seljuq Period in Anatolia (1081–1307)
    The Art of the Seljuqs of Iran (ca. 1040–1157)
    The Art of the Timurid Period (ca. 1370–1507)
    The Art of the Umayyad Period (661–750)
    The Art of the Umayyad Period in Spain (711–1031)
    Artists of the Saqqakhana Movement (the 1950s–60s)
    The Arts of Iran, 1600–1800
    The Arts of the Book in the Islamic World, 1600–1800
    Astronomy and Astrology in the Medieval Islamic World
    Baths and Bathing Culture in the Middle East: The Hammam
    The Birth of Islam
    Blown Glass from Islamic Lands
    Byzantine Art under Islam
    Calligraphy in Islamic Art
    Carpets from the Islamic World, 1600–1800
    Commercial Exchange, Diplomacy, and Religious Difference between Venice and the Islamic World
    Company Painting in Nineteenth-Century India
    Constantinople after 1261
    Courtly Art of the Ilkhanids
    The Crusades (1095–1291)
    Cut and Engraved Glass from Islamic Lands
    The Damascus Room
    Early Modernists and Indian Traditions
    Early Qur’ans (8th–early 13th centuries)
    Egyptian Modern Art
    Enameled and Gilded Glass from Islamic Lands
    Europe and the Islamic World, 1600–1800
    Fashion in Safavid Iran
    Figural Representation in Islamic Art
    Folios from the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings)
    Folios from the Jami’ al-tavarikh (Compendium of Chronicles)
    Geometric Patterns in Islamic Art
    Glass from Islamic Lands
    Glass with Mold-Blown Decoration from Islamic Lands
    The Greater Ottoman Empire, 1600–1800
    Hagia Sophia, 532–37
    Hot-worked Glass from Islamic Lands
    Indian Textiles: Trade and Production
    Islamic Arms and Armor
    Islamic Art and Culture: the Venetian Perspective
    Islamic Art of the Deccan
    Islamic Carpets in European Paintings
    The Later Ottomans and the Impact of Europe
    The Legacy of Genghis Khan
    List of Rulers of the Islamic World
    The Lute
    The Magic of Signs and Patterns in North African Art
    The Mantiq al-Tayr of 1487
    The Metropolitan Museum’s Excavations at Nishapur
    Modern and Contemporary Art in Iran
    Modern Art in India
    Modern Art in West and East Pakistan
    Modern Art in West Asia: From Colonial to Post-colonial Period
    The Mongolian Tent in the Ilkhanid Period
    Mosaic Glass from Islamic Lands
    The Nature of Islamic Art
    A New Visual Language Transmitted Across Asia
    Nineteenth-Century Court Arts in India
    Nineteenth-Century Iran: Art and the Advent of Modernity
    Nineteenth-Century Iran: Continuity and Revivalism
    Orientalism in Nineteenth-Century Art
    Popular Religion: Magical Uses of Imagery in Byzantine Art
    Postmodernism: Recent Developments in Art in India
    Postmodernism: Recent Developments in Art in Pakistan and Bangladesh
    The Religious Arts under the Ilkhanids
    Shah cAbbas and the Arts of Isfahan
    The Shah Jahan Album
    The Shahnama of Shah Tahmasp
    Silk Textiles from Safavid Iran, 1501–1722
    Silks from Ottoman Turkey
    Stained, or Luster-Painted Glass from Islamic Lands
    Takht-i Sulayman and Tile Work in the Ilkhanid Period
    Techniques of Decoration on Arms and Armor
    Trade and Commercial Activity in the Byzantine and Early Islamic Middle East
    Trade and the Spread of Islam in Africa
    Turkmen Jewelry
    Vegetal Patterns in Islamic Art
    Venice and the Islamic World, 828–1797
    Venice’s Principal Muslim Trading Partners: the Mamluks, the Ottomans, and the Safavids
    West Asia: Ancient Legends, Modern Idioms
    West Asia: Between Tradition and Modernity
    West Asia: Postmodernism, the Diaspora, and Women Artists

    As for art museums in London, their collection isn’t that “small”, either:
    http://www.vam.ac.uk/page/i/islamic-middle-east/

    SMH.

    Like


  231. Excuse my typos. I was probably writing under too much disbelief 😀

    Like


  232. @ Bulanik

    Thank you, Bulanik. You said it better than I could have.

    Like


  233. Excuse my typos. I was probably writing under too much disbelief 😀

    😀

    Like


  234. Nope. The list is a list of craft work, and the carpets are the products of slave labor. Yeah, two winners of the Nobel Prize in Literature over the last hundred years. Considering that Muslims are about almost a quarter of the world’s population that’s not much of a showing. Nevertheless. those two writers are good, Pamuk being the more popular of the two today, though he’s still alive.

    You really ought to look at the Islamic work you call art, then compare it with what’s been created in the East and the West. That might help.

    Calligraphy is a craft.

    There’s no “art” inside mosques. There’s no Islamic equivalent to the Sistine Chapel.

    Chemistry? Yeah, in Islam that’s Alchemy, one of the more significant misdirections of science.

    Meanwhile, I see you don’t realize that Muslims appropriated ideas they came across as they conquered more and more territory. As you can see from the total absence of inventions in today’s Islamic world, they rarely, if ever, have an original thought.

    It once appeared that they were creative, back when it wasn’t understood they were getting their best ideas from those they conquered. As the Ottoman Empire became more bloated and corrupt, it lost its capacity to conquer and simultaneously lost it ability to add to its seeming fund of knowledge.

    The inventiveness of the West enabled it to surpass the Islamic world militarily a long time ago. When Islam could no longer expand through conquest, it lost its source of new technology. That was it for those guys. They’ve been in their own dark ages ever since.

    Had it not been for oil money, they’d be nothing but poor bedouins today, just as they were in the early part of the 20th century.

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  235. Sb32199

    Actual you are wrong again. There is no real distinction between art and craft to begin with. It is just the western world’s way of calling something primitive based solely on what they don’t see as art because it is not like theirs. This video link explains it all.
    Is there a difference between art and craft? – La…: http://youtu.be/tVdw60eCnJI

    Like


  236. Bulanik

    Absolutely beautiful and eloquent response.

    Like


  237. And he tries to switch positions again. SMH

    Like


  238. @ Bulanik

    SB wants to remain comfortably dumb.

    Like


  239. @Sb32199

    In a couple of years the Muslims will claim they have built the tallest skyscrapers on their own. Look at the ‘lost’ Malaysian airlines, an airliner from an apartheid islamic state. None of those Islamic countries are capable of searching for their own property. The ones searching are, Chinese, Australian or Europeans.LOL! Well, this thread is supposed to handle the daily attrocities committed by the followers of Mohammad. It makes me very sad to see blacks trapped in this Arab ideology.

    Like


  240. Tariku

    “None of those Islamic countries are capable of searching for their own property”—Not capable or don’t want to? They are actually 2 different things.

    Like


  241. @ Sharina
    @ Abagond

    Thank you.

    Like


  242. @ SB

    The list (of Islamic art) is a list of craft work, and the carpets are the products of slave labor…There’s no “art” inside mosques. There’s no Islamic equivalent to the Sistine Chapel.

    I see: so the inside of the mos finely-worked mosques is the equivalent of basket-weaving? Like the Nasir Al Mulk Mosque, in Shiraz:
    http://www.demilked.com/nasir-al-mulk-pink-mosque-stained-glass-shiraz-iran/

    Because — according to you, obviously a Curator and Art Historian — European art is BEST, and the STANDARD everyone else in the world should and must try to copy if they crave to the rating and approval of Eurocentrist Islamphobes?

    Calligraphy is a craft.

    Calligraphy is as much an art as say, Flemish lace, or Murano glass.
    And, if you believe the distinction between art and craft is concrete, universal and eternal, you are not only unaware of what art is and how it is created, but misguided in your presumptions.
    In the European canon, “it is Art if the maker says it’s Art”.
    You should know that if you know anything about definitions in Art in the last 100 years, if you don’t anything about what happened to Art during the (Italian 14th century) Renaissance.

    Chemistry? Yeah, in Islam that’s Alchemy, one of the more significant misdirections of science.

    No.
    The “misdirection” was very European detour. You realize that the transmutation of metals was something that Muslim chemists, such Al-Kindi, Avicenna, Al-Biruni and Ib Khaldun, refuted, don’t you?
    The Muslims promoted scientific method after the Greeks.
    Perhaps it would do you no harm to read educators like, say, a physicist like Jim Al-Khalili, who writes about these early scholars for a living, instead of inventing your own history of Islamic science? (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pathfinders-Golden-Arabic-Science-Al-Khalili/dp/B00E31VP4C/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400284908&sr=1-14&keywords=jim+al+khalili)

    Meanwhile, I see you don’t realize that Muslims appropriated ideas they came across as they conquered more and more territory.

    Wow.
    Your habit is to create fictions about whole populations, so I am not surprised you feel entitled to create fictions about my thinking, too. 😀
    Do you think the English scientist, Isaac Newton, was the first man in the history of world to see a fruit fall from a tree and theorize about it?
    Scientific accomplishments are usually the direct outgrowth of accumulated knowledge. Knowledge and advances aren’t materialized miraculously by mere virtue of shared religion. Sanskrit was probably the original language of mathemathics and astronomy, but the genius of India was transmitted in Arabic…As was the genius of Greece, China, Persia and Egypt.
    That was done through the Islamic civilization of al-Andalus, which was– gutting as it is to countenance — instrumental in shaping what became Western Culture following the Renaissance.
    Thank the Muslims for that…

    …As the Ottoman Empire became more bloated and corrupt, it lost its capacity to conquer and simultaneously lost it ability to add to its seeming fund of knowledge.

    You’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
    You are no Ottomanist, and neither are you alone in essentializing your loathing for Muslims in quite a-historical manner.
    I’d be laughing it weren’t so predictable.
    Ottoman history is notorious for its speculative theories, bad research, dodgy assumptions and deep-rooted inaccuracies. The reason? Because it has mostly been written by Europeans using European source materials, rather than being written by Turkish historians and using Ottoman sources…
    The Ottoman State didn’t founder simply because of a vague “lost ability” or the West’s military brilliance, and neither is the modern Turkish state in the Dark Ages more than say, the US or France. That is simply opinion.

    The history of the Ottomans covers a sprawling geographical are, covers all aspect of human history — economic, technological, poltical, cultural, and over a long period of time.

    Had it not been for oil money, they’d be nothing but poor bedouins today, just as they were in the early part of the 20th century.
    ?
    Bedouin are Arabs. Turks aren’t Arab. Not all Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arab. I have a feeling something is “bothering” about Arabs…
    Somewhere in your scattergun commentary, SB, is a contempt based on race…

    Like


  243. Sharina said: Absolutely beautiful and eloquent response.

    True words.

    Like


  244. Correction on comment in moderation:

    Last quote in blockquotes

    Had it not been for oil money, they’d be nothing but poor bedouins today, just as they were in the early part of the 20th century.

    ?
    Bedouin are Arabs. Turks aren’t Arab. Not all Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arab. I have a feeling something is “bothering” you about Arabs…
    Somewhere in your scattergun commentary, SB, is a contempt based on race…

    Like


  245. Jim Al Khilili is wonderful and I watch his docus over and over.they repeat them a lot on a small channal down here..I could study with this guy and learn something..

    Astronomy, Álgebra , Chemestry, etc without Arabic advances the West would have never advanced into the Renasance period

    Like


  246. ..at the same time , I woudnt hesitante to add , that this extremist form of Islam , that has resulted in cronic massacres in Nigéria , this absolutly isnt recent news to anyone taking note of incidents that have happened in Nigéria in the last few years, the recent Al Quaeda presence in Mali, where people were executed, had their hands cut off, and were forbidden from listening to music , to the slaughter in the Kenya shopping mall…and other cronic conflicts in other countries in Africa , with the clash with extremist Islam and those who are not practicioners…or practicioners of a less extreme Islam , that they attack also…and as a matter of fact , practicioners of a less extreme form of Islam are the more frequent targets of these people, and that makes them a parias for much of the Islamic world , also

    Blaming the cia , is exactly what happens in South America, where people only interested in power, use the cia as the boogey man to blame , for the purpose of hiding failures , or , power moves, and they just indulge in the same imperialistic behavior, like Chavez supporting Farc in Colômbia, or sending suitcases of campain money to red flag alies in other countries , something that would be screamed at when the usa does it

    What is much more likely is that these extremists have financial support coming from somewhere in the bowels of the people who are commited to these extreme forms of Islam…its obvious there is a network in place, but, Im not saying its a specific group of people making desicians about it, but more likely splinter groups who make contacts with financial supporters…..

    I’m perplexed there was no discusion on here of the Kenya mall massacres , and , despite comments by Linda , about some of these conflicts, when the problem in Nigeria is brought up in here, it’s only when there is some feint hint coming from the wind that the USA might get involved…

    What is ironic about talking about who is more. civilized , the West , and Christianity, or Islam and its contributions to civilisation, the contributions to civilisation of the people in these troubled areas, that came way before Islam or Christianity ever apeared , are being lost in the shuffle.the Dogon in Mali…imagine, the etreme Islam terrorists were banning music in Mali, recently,that means wonderful Dogon culture, Kenya is rich in examples of ancient traditional cultures, and Nigeria is home to Igbo and Ogeno. How ironic it seems to get lost in the Christian Muslim conflicts , and the same for whatever colonial, into Cold War politics , and fight for resources that inform the Congo and neighboring countries

    In their essences, Islam and Christianity don’t acknowledge the contributions to civilisation that these incredible cultures made to humankind , even when it is right in front of our noses on a regular basis…they can’t even really define what it is

    This gets seriously lost in the Africa discusion

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  247. bulanik says: “Calligraphy is as much an art as say, Flemish lace, or Murano glass.

    All three are crafts.

    Like


  248. http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/17/4122578/african-leaders-work-to-counter.html

    I hadn’t read this article when I made the post above…suggesting that Boko Haram trained with Al Qaeda when they were in Mali , and that they made ties with other terrorist groups…instead, we see the CIA as brought up as the bogey man…sure, people can just dismiss this…

    I don’t ..

    Like


  249. @Bulanik

    Its simple; I thought they were relatively backwards people, just not to the point they are at. Honestly thought it was the “odd” honor killing here or there.

    Not 200 a year.

    Your the one who brought up homosexuals and TV as a way to show how they weren’t backward.

    Your the odd going to insults instead of bothering to clarify your point.

    Are you a troll Bulanik?

    Though it is amusing to think of myself as conservative and patriotic.

    And believe it or not Bulanik I wasn’t referring to you when I was talking about being willing to throw your previous causes under a bus to support a new one.

    But hey; if the shoe fits feel free to put it on and lace it up.

    Like


  250. Sb32199

    That seems to be your opinion of calligraphy as according to my source ( something you constantly fail to provide) days otherwise.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calligraphy

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  251. George

    I think it is clear what his arguments are and it has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalist society “stifling” creativity. He made it clear in his own words that they do not and have not created anything. This is incorrect and there is no historical evidence to support it.

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  252. If he had evidence to actually support it or if anyone did then it would have been provided, but so far the opposite has been provided.

    Like


  253. http://www.collectorsweekly.com/art-glass/italian

    Look at that….I guess murano glass is art after all.

    Like


  254. Since sb32199 loves what the Christian world has done for the vast majority of the world’s population, which is nothing but death and destruction under the banner of white supremacy (that includes human enslavement, Imperialism, Capitalism, Colonialism, etc.), he should use Roman numerals (e.g., I,III,III,IV,V…) instead of Arabic numbers (e.g., 1,2,3,4…). After all, Arabic numbers (as well as Algebra and other sciences and art) were introduced and taught by Muslims (8th – 14th century AD) to the ignorant Europeans (many who were Christians) during Europe’s famous (not infamous) dark ages (500-1500 AD).

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  255. @ V-4

    You haven’t understood what I’ve said, and I don’t think you have you tried.
    Perhaps you ARE a reactionary jingoist: I don’t think it matters, either way.
    But no one tried to insult you. My responses to you were courteous and humourous. I was hoping for some kind of informed analysis from you, but didn’t get one.

    As a result, I understand your commentary better now.
    Instead of trying to understand my point about Turkey, you preferred to point to Turkey’s “honour killings” to show that although the Turks have a flourishing society in many respects, they are nevertheless backward Muslims because the have 100s of honour killings a year.
    Yet, I am surprised that you are not aware that “honour killings” happens among Sikh, Hindu and Christian communities, not just in Turkey, or other parts of Asia, don’t only target women and girls.
    That’s why I didn’t think you were being serious!
    “Honour killings” are not, in fact, an “Islamic” crime, because it’s well known in tribal communities in many countries, including parts of Eastern Europe, Russia and even Brazil. Turkey has many tribal communities from the East of the country.

    I had already made my point about the West’s hand in Africa: the CIA, etc.
    I didn’t think it was helpful to list the level of violence against women in Western societies, or homocide rate against women the US, in particular, to illustrate the REAL nature of secular Christian societies…

    Like


  256. A good source of enlightening middle east scholarship is Bernard Lewis, professor of Middle East Studies at Princeton.

    As I stated previously, the Islamic world came by virtually all the knowledge for which it’s credited by conquest.

    If the Islamic world were as intellectual fertile as you seem to think, then it would still develop new ideas and contribute to the advance of all knowledge today. But it doesn’t. Nothing comes from Islamic nations.

    You can’t claim there’s no money. You can’t claim there’s some natural, insurmountable barrier to learning and creativity. But there is the self-imposed limiter — Islam itself.

    Centuries ago, when few people were free, the Islamic world enjoyed the advantage it gave itself. Conquest. Humans were constrained by regimes everywhere. But that changed for the better in the non-Islamic world.

    Previously, when the Islamic world expanded, those it conquered were killed or they converted to Islam. With a little looking you’ll find it was those people who were conquered and converted to Islam who were the source of intellectual gains.

    What does the Islamic world produce today? It produces groups like Boko Haram. Outside of oil and stitching clothes for western labels, the only export of the Islamic world is Islam itself.

    It’s always instructive to note that it took 400 years for Gutenberg’s printing press to make it across the Mediterranean to Egypt, where the calligraphers were endangered by the machine’s capability.

    It’s also instructive to consider the Rosetta Stone. Who deciphered its writings? Not the people of Egypt, where it had been sitting around for 2,000 years. Nope. Around 1800, a little duel between the French and English erupted over the stone. They raced to decode it and now the Stone is displayed in the British Museum.

    You would think the Egyptians would have had some archive or connection to the earlier language spoken and written in the region before Arabic became the standard. But no, the Egyptians were clueless.

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  257. Which of Bernard Lewis’s books are most of fond of and proves your point?

    Take this one: “What Went Wrong?”
    Even in this book, the Professor says that Islam was the most open, enlightened, most creative of civilizations.

    He says that over and over in his books. Are you sure you have read them, because you said that the Islamic world produced nothing and invented nothing, didn’t you?

    (http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Went-Wrong-Western-Response/dp/075381675X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400370807&sr=8-1&keywords=what+went+wrong)

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  258. Michael Cooper, as I’ve said, the history of the world includes a lot of brutality. However, the non-Islamic world moved on, and moved ahead. The Islamic world prefers the 7th century.

    Meanwhile, the Islamic world still practices slavery. In theocracies like Saudi Arabia women have few rights. At best they are chattel slaves. And next time you’re in Riyadh, just for fun, try selling some Bibles.

    However, the world will buy oil from all the middle east producers. Of course the muslims aren’t capable of running the oil industry. That takes the expertise of non-muslims.

    Why are they so incompetent, so incapable of building and managing the one industry that accounts for virtually all the cash that enters their economies?

    Pretty embarrassing, don’t you think? Same for those tall buildings they like so much. They have to pay others to handle every step of the design and construction of those gaudy tasteless structures.

    Is the effect of the absolute Islamic prohibition on free speech hard to assess? This is the chief roadblock to intellectual advance. However, because Islam is Islam, which means it’s a religious/political/military, all-controlling ideology, there’s no chance the Islamic world will ever tolerate free speech.

    That’s why the Islamic world will remain in its own dark age.

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  259. It’s also instructive to consider the Rosetta Stone. Who deciphered its writings? Not the people of Egypt, where it had been sitting around for 2,000 years. Nope. Around 1800, a little duel between the French and English erupted over the stone. They raced to decode it and now the Stone is displayed in the British Museum.

    You would think the Egyptians would have had some archive or connection to the earlier language spoken and written in the region before Arabic became the standard. But no, the Egyptians were clueless.

    Egyptians are clueless.
    The priceless artifacts of their culture and history are better off with white Europeans. Who can appreciate it and are smarter.

    😀

    Yep.

    Like


  260. Yes, Bulanik, I’ve read Lewis, in fact, What Went Wrong covers the topic nicely. Perhaps you should read it rather than just googling it.

    Doesn’t the title make it clear to you that Islam failed? What Went Wrong, or How the Muslims Blew It.

    Lewis will let you in on the same stuff I’ve mentioned — that the Islamic world prospered by conquest and then from the conversion to Islam of the conquered people. The Muslims were good at conquering people who had something worth obtaining.

    Those conquered people converted to Islam and were made to learn Arabic, which enabled the easy distribution of knowledge through much of the Islamic world. It worked for a long time.

    However, it all came to an end when the Islamic world lost its military edge.

    Imagine if Islam had taken over North America a few decades ago. Maybe Bill Gates would have been a Muslim who created Microsoft for the glory of Muhammad.

    Well, probably not, because the creation of a software powerhouse like Microsoft would violate the religious/political tenets of Islam and he’d probably have been stoned to death for insulting the prophet.

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  261. I haven’t google “What went wrong”, SB.

    In fact, I have my copy right in front of me, I have the copy by http://www.orionbooks.co.uk, Phoenix copy, printed in 2002.
    The front cover is a painting of the Dolmabahce Palace.
    On the back of the book it says it show Kaiser Wilhelm II, on a visit to Sultan Abdulhamed II. Oil painting by Fausto Zonaro.

    Name a page and I will tell what is on it.

    You obviously haven’t read the book, or else you wouldn’t have said all you have. Anyone can read the blub about the book on Amazon, provided earlier, to see you don’t know what you are saying…

    Like


  262. It also says a great deal that you lionize Bernard Lewis.
    He is well-loved by neo-conservatives. They looked up to him for actions to take against Iraq, for starters…

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  263. How is that faking it until you make it working out for you sb32199? ROFL!!!

    Like


  264. @Bulanik

    You pretty much called me a conservative, xenophobic racist……kind of an insult.

    As for Turkey; it goes back to what I said about comparing it to the backwardness of the south.

    But yes; regardless of your religious beliefs, if you are oppressing women in your society and killing them when they step out of line……that’s kind of backwards.

    Am I too surprised that Christians in other places might be doing honor killings? Not really. Probably happens occasionally in the US as well.

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  265. I think when we look at the islamic world today, we forget the history of it.

    In 800’s islamic world was light years ahead of the christian west. The basics of photography were known, medicine was rather advanced, there was a hospital oin Bagdad with 1000 beds for the sick and almost as many doctors and it was for free, there were banks in Bagdad which had side offices in China and north Africa. The sciences were advanced and advancing, the texts of the greeks were translated and saved, mathematics and nature sciences were highly valued, litterature and art – yes, art – were in vogue etc.

    All this came to an end when the religious extremists gained the upper hand and began to formulate their version of the religion and believed that stagnation and denial are the idea of the God.

    Same happened in Turkey, where the early ottoman empire was explorative in science and arts, litterature and music, astronomy etc. It fell backward only after the religious extremists gained the upper hand and stagnated it too.

    But what happened in the west with the religion? Destruction of the science of tha Antiques by the early christians. They burned down the Alexandrian library, the collections of Pisitratus etc. Rome fell after the christianity wiped out all the other ideas, including any science.

    From 500’s to 1500’s Europe was the most backward and violent, really dark place in the world. That is why so many europeans preferred to work for the muslim rulers in north Africa, like many of the sailors and sea captains at the service of the Barbary coast rulers in 1500’s and 1600’s. Many worked for the ottoman rulers.

    Europe in 1500’s was very poor, plague ridden chaos full of wars fueled by the religious fanatics and amitious small time princes compared to the wealth and magnificent of the ottomans, not to mention the China. When the first japanese samurai visited the Pope, they reported to the shogun and their damio’s back home, that Rome was dirty town full of filth, sickness and ruins, a tiny shitty place compared to Kyoto or big cities of Japan at that time. And this was the time of our beloved reneissance.

    The biggest man made catastrophe of the history in Europe, the 30 year war, was fueled by religion. It turned the northern parts of Germany from flourishing agricultural region into desolet moors and deserts. In Silecia the finnish troops under the swedish crown wiped out around third of the population and habitats in jus three short years in 1638-41.

    Tens of thousands of people were killed in the great witch hunts of the 1600’s and one of the last ones was killed in Sweden in 1672 by the authorities.

    The march of reason and science began in Europe ONLY in the turn of the 17/1800’s. Before that Europe and its nations were religious fanatics and robbers, savages of the first order. The only thing that separated europeans from all the others was that profeteering was considered to be good thing. Thus the attack on the enemy or conquering a foreign land to be exploited in every possible way economically was seen as a great thing and morally just. Money was the other god of europeans.

    As late as in 1800’s it was thoughed that it was okay to attack any foreign ruler who opposed any european to make money by what ever means possible. When the chinese emperor had the audicity to deny and crminalize the very profitable opium business of the brittish in mainland China, the result was the Opium war, where the western opium cartels attacked China with the backing of their crown. If the columbian cocaine cartels would have sent gun boats up the Potomac to shoot at the White house and Capitol Hill in 1980’s that would have been a similar event.

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  266. @ V-4

    No. I did not call you that.
    I wondered about your narrow outlook and said I really didn’t know your mindset at all. It would really help if you’d try and actually READ my comments, instead!

    If you had, you wouldn’t end up:
    1. putting words into my mouth, and,
    2. missing the point, and,
    3. making accusations.
    There could be the added benefit of realizing that the backwardness you associate with a country or a culture you don’t know about is not actually isolated to that country or culture.
    You might even consider questioning — more often — the ideas you hold dear about your own culture’s practices, instead of being “offended” by someone who questions them, and you.

    As for “probably happens occassionally in the Us as well”, may need more thought.

    So-called “crimes of passion” are a feature of many cultural landscapes, and the US, is absolutely no exception, being, apparently, the most violent nation in the industrialized world. And ,if Abagond’s posts about US history are anything to go by, it was a nation founded on violence and brutality. What is more, there are lots of factors he hasn’t yet covered, like the Napoleonic Code.
    This was the very influenctial legal code from France which allowed men lenient legal treatment if they killed their wives, sisters, daughters, under the banner of “crimes of passion”, and in defence of their honour. If something is called by another name, it doesn’t mean it ceases to exist, or never existed.
    https://networks.h-net.org/node/9997/reviews/10591/gilje-bellesiles-lethal-imagination-violence-and-brutality-american

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  267. The REAL Sam, sami parkkonen — Thank you for bringing back Reality to world history.

    It’s sad that some people need to encourage myths about European history in order to feel better about themselves.

    Like


  268. Now, of course, back to the scheduled program– Boko Haram… somehow this thread got hijacked–

    Since the Nigerian army can’t seem to handle the situation–it appears that the villagers in north Nigeria have decided to protect themselves:

    200 hundred members of Boko Haram were killed in an early morning attack on a village of peaceful Nigerians– residents of Kalabalge village in Borno State

    Villagers in an area of Nigeria where Boko Haram operates have killed and detained scores of fighters who were suspected of planning a fresh attack, the residents and a security official said.

    Locals in Nigeria’s northern states have been forming vigilante groups in various areas to resist the armed group which has held more than 270 schoolgirls captive since last month.

    In Kalabalge, a village about 250km from the Borno state capital of Maiduguri, residents said they were taking matters into their own hands because the Nigerian military was perceived as not doing enough to stem Boko Haram attacks.

    On Tuesday morning, after learning about an impending attack by fighters, locals ambushed two trucks with gunmen, according to local officials.

    At least 41 fighters were killed in the attack, officials, who spoke to Al Jazeera on conditions of anonymity, said

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/05/nigeria-villagers-kill-boko-haram-fighters-2014514152412389219.html

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  269. @Bulanik

    Eh…..while there was definitely violence in the taking of America, by and large there was a lot less than the westerns on TV would have you believe.

    Especially in the day to day life; while there were tribes that endured conflict with the ever expanding nature of the colonialists and what have you. For the most part they got along.

    Basically 90% of them died to disease that would have happened regardless. Well; as long as people from over seas kept coming over anyways.

    And of course; wars like how we stole about 1/3 of the nation from Mexico.

    And as for the US; that’s basically what I meant, that there are probably murders/violence etc….that happen that if you were to break down the reasons for “why” they did they would probably sound remarkably similar to the reasons for honor killings.

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  270. “V-4,
    Especially in the day to day life; while there were tribes that endured conflict with the ever expanding nature of the colonialists and what have you. For the most part they got along.

    Basically 90% of them died to disease that would have happened regardless. Well; as long as people from over seas kept coming over anyways.”

    Linda says,

    V-4@ “for the most part they got along”— are you kidding me!?!!

    That ish you must of been smoking while reading American history, must have been first rate, high mountain-top grown, mind altering weed, if you are seriously trying to

    come on this particular thread, peddling this “white washed” revision of American history…

    I’m sure many of the Native American descendants would HIGHLY disagree with your version of their ancestors history and how their lands were STOLEN from them and the soon ongoing GENOCIDE against the Natives that resulted with them being herded onto reservations.

    American history on this blog has been discussed, dissected and bissected in multiple ways, many times…. so I can’t even imagine why you think it’s OK to come here and push this fairy tale about the Native Americans

    “Violence: Whites would egg Natives into violence or use Native violence against lawless Whites on the frontier as an excuse for overwhelming force to drive Natives off their land. Whites wiped out tribes, burned crops, sold Natives into slavery, raped and kidnapped.

    Whites made little attempt to create a multiracial society. Even Natives who became Christians were kept apart from Whites. By the 1670s they were seen as more Native than Christian – race was beginning to matter more than religion.”

    Source: Mostly “Race in North America” (2012) by Audrey Smedley and Brian D. Smedley.
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/white-american-racism-against-natives-1600s/

    The lies you were taught about Native Americans
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/the-lies-you-were-taught-about-native-americans/

    Like


  271. V-4, as far as I’m concerned you have always been a defender of whites and WISHFUL thinking where they/y’all are concerned. It’s about time that others are beginning to observe this deluded character trait of yours! The fact that you’ve hung out here for a long while and still get many things backwards and twisted says plenty…

    Delusion/whiteness is a powerful drug!

    Like


  272. The things that happened to native Americans in the USA , happened throughout the Americas..The history in Brazil is equal , a,nd as a matter of fact, violent conflicts between whites and Indians goes on into today..if any one has some real gripes about what whites did to Native Americans , and wish they could have been involved to help, by all means fly to Brazil and get involved to make a difference , because its going on now

    You bet USA hemmoroids have been over examined in this blog in comparison to any other country.

    In the face of millions eliminated in the Soviet Union, the millions eliminated in Nazi Germany in World War Two, a statement that the USA is the most violent country in the Western world seems absolutely mind boggling…and following only the CIA around in Central and South America and not acknowledging the Soviet Union had their network in place also, is a one sided look at history..in Brazil, they had spies in the congress, the military , the media , and universities.This even played out in the thirties , where there were communist foreign spies, an attempted communist coup, and a dictatorship that came in under Getulio Vargas, to defeat it, and there was torture..yet , I’ve even seen politicians running for local elections using the CIA USA boogeyman dogma…it’s a disease, and a way to cover up failures and power moves

    This kind of amnesia and dogmad rhetoric is the haze that people start bringing in the CIA as the all purpose boogeyman , to shine their flashlight on in Nigeria, and the inability to look at the reality….and why a fairy tale from Ass ange, and Wo manning gets brought in as some kind of fact

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  273. And nice report , Linda, I’m betting quite a few of these people retaliating practice Islam , just as most of the girls kidnapped practice Islam…this is another case of religious fanatics hiding behind Islam, preying on people who practice Islam…this religious fanaticism plays out in the USA , with fanatics who hide behind Christianity , who go out and kill doctors who practice abortions..religious fanatics are more dangerous than anyone, because they get self righteous and have no problem going to fanaticle extremes in the name of their god

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  274. Abagond has done some investigations into slavery in the US, and commenters have talked about this kind of slavery. Do they talk too much about the enslavement of Africans in Africa or the US/Caribbean?
    Personally, I don’t think so.
    In talking about the enslavement of Africans, is it an over-examination?
    I don’t think so. Not at all.
    But Abagond has not touched much on slavery in Asia, and Asian as slaves, not much discussion there at all….
    That kind of slavery might be have been bigger in numbers and actually stiil goes on, by the millions, to this day. Yet frankly, I don’t think that silence and exclusion is because of a deliberate bias, a desire to be unfair, or some kind of anti-Asian agenda.

    By the same token, why would anyone believe Abagond “over-examines” the violence of the USA, its present, history and past?
    Should Abagond be writing, instead, about the Soviet Union more, or Nazi Germany? Is the Soviet Union (dissolved in 1991) and Nazi Germany (ended in 1945) more relevant to this blog?

    Should those ^^ regimes, or others, be wheeled out in such discussions to show the US in a “truer” light, and step over the fact that the USA is the global superpower — or is that merely superfluous, and a distraction?

    Should Abagond shy away from talking about his country in a critical way, and clamp down HARD on anyone who does, because that’s “bashing America”?
    Is it wrong, unbalanced and a distorted view to speak in a way that is not in praise of his own country?

    Something I’ve noticed: Europeans who comment on this blog are critical of Europe. For instance, in this discussion — Norway is riddled with corruption, so Nigeria and other African countries are not unique for corruption.

    If Abagond, or anyone, takes a European country to task on such issues, then, I don’t see anything wrong with that. Europe has its hands covered in blood. Other commenters from Europe seem to take a similar Pov, and when I’ve talked about this with other Europe-based commenters, we don’t feel upset or somehow under-siege and need to retaliate at American, for that: not generally and not personally. In fact Europeans will be highly-critical of Europe’s carry ons, for good or ill.

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  275. BR said:

    “…a statement that the USA is the most violent country in the Western world seems absolutely mind boggling”

    What I ACTUALLY said was this, “in the context of the supposedly specially violent and special backwardness of other countries: the US, is absolutely no exception, being, apparently, the most violent nation in the industrialized world.”

    Is it “absolutely mind-boggling” because it’s a made up lie, or is just unpleasant to confront? I did not say other nations don’t have security problems
    Or is the case the case that sometimes there are American who find it intolerable that non-Americans say anything about their country that they don’t like?

    I hope not, because one of the reasons this blog is a good one, and a respected one, is because Abagond does not subscribe to that kind rubbish and he doesn’t write for those that do.
    *

    I said:”Apparently”. These are the cumulative findings of organisation (American ones) who study this kind of thing in the industrialized US and make comparisons with other industrialized nations.. For example:

    * The US spends more on defence (2011) than those countries with the next 13 highest defence budgets combined. So that’s more than3 times the defence budgets of Russia and China combined .
    http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison
    * The sales for overseasby the US totaled $66.3 billion (2011).
    That is 3/4 of the global arms market (which is valued at $85.3 billion). Russia was a distant second, with $4.8 billion in its deals. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/world/middleeast/us-foreign-arms-sales-reach-66-3-billion-in-2011.html?_r=0

    More than a few times, it’s been made plain that the US has 30% more people in prisons than a country which has 4 times more people in it – China.
    Some people, like Angela Davis and others, believe that the Prisoner-Industrial-Complex is a violence in itself, Couldn’t the money spent in be better used for violence-prevention? Perhaps that’s a silly though…

    Additional to that, I’ve also heard that spending allocated to prisons in the US is on the increase, whilst spending on education is on the decrease, and that there is a direct link between low-performing schools areas and high rates of imprisonments in the same vicinity.

    Other research, by US’s National Instittue of Health, found something like 300,000 school students are physically assaulted in schools each month, at least 100,000 students carry a gun to school, and most of them, at least 70%, say they have been bullied, one way, or another… Is it just me, or are those figures quite high?

    When rates of domestic violence are looked at (e.g. the US’s own Domestic Violence Stats), it said something like “every 9 seconds a woman is assaulted or beaten, and up to 10 million children witness some form of domestic violence annually.” (That doesn’t mean women don’t get bashed in other countries or no children in other countries see that sort of thing, because these are US stats).

    Then, I’ve been told, by Americans, that Americans are 7 times more chance of being murdered than people in 16 other industrialized countries, and are 20 times more likely to be killed by a gun firing. (That was the finding from a study by the National Academy of Sciences: I haven’t seen the figures myself, but I kind of it believe it…) Shootings in schools are probably the highest anywhere in the world, and I kind of believe that as well, along with figures on firearm-related killings (especially on among young people) that shows the US waaay, waaay ahead of any other INDUSTRIALIZED nation, or a number of them combined in that kind of violence. I believe the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention do the research on that kind of thing.

    There’s more, as well. But I suppose some research just adds all of these things up. It’s not as if any one has to make this kind of thing up when the US keeps its own records.

    So when other Americans claim that the violence in other countries shows how backward and inferior they are, and cite figures to show that, I have to wonder in the light of what the US knows about itself. There should be nothing absolutely mind-boggling about that.

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  276. In any context someone wants to compare USA violence , they absolutely should look at the real world realities

    Especialy living in Brazil and South America , comparing in country violence , claiming the USA is the most violent country in the world is absolutely mind boggling , since statistics in Venezuela are off the map , Colombia is no picnic, and Brazil is high on the list

    With statistics like 700,000 people arrested and jailed for pot possecian alone, I consider that to be more backwards laws that want to target minorities than just violence, or , once again, compare the prison conditions in those countries to the USA and ask which are more violent..To be in prison inside Brazil makes some USA prisons look like a stay at the YMCA

    The total implications by some people on this thread are , the CIA is involved, and the USA boogeyman picture , with its violent past and forced regime change policies are the justification for rationalizing that, including Abagonds reference of the answer to Michell Obama

    Yet if you look at both Iraq and Afghanistan before the USA got involved , you find the Iraq Iran war left a million dead , the Afghan civil war , with the Talaban in charge had a million dead , it does not matter that the USA played both sides in the Iraq Iran war, the war would have happened anyway, the Shiite Suunni conflicts are deeply embedded and far past any USA influence, just look at Syria right now…and the fundamentalist Talaban influence has more to do with Pakistani and Saudi Arabian influence than Cold War USA tampering in Soviet Afghan conflict…thinking giving money and stingers to people there is inventing Al Quaeda or the Talaban is also mind boggling

    I’ll be the first one to say the USA is dirty , and , any small country shouldn’t trust them, they are absolutely looking out for their own interests , just don’t bend over in the shower when you drop the soap with other countries next to you while you spend huge energy condemning the USA

    I’m happy to discuss what the USA did to Brazil , and what they didn’t do, in the Cold War , as long as we look at what China was doing at the same time, where some of the Brazilian Marxists were training for their Che revolution, and the absolute multi millions were dying because of the ideologies we were fighting against…or China , or North Korea , or the Soviet Union , Cambodia..yes , lets compare that violence of multi multi millions to USA violence…having the largest defence system isnt violence , its a bloated responce to these all too real realities that are a d have been out there…and , events I see taking place in this world right now, give me no feeling that we ought to let our defences down any time soon, just I wish they were used more wisely

    I have no rational for Bushs Iraq, and it is one of the most blatent acts of imperialism and abuse of power ive seen in American history, but thinking school shootings are more violent than the numbers of kids lost in the cocaine gang drug violence in Brazil , fueled in part by Farc drug traficing also suported by Hugo Chavez , would also be mind boggling…of course , the cia did the same thing in central American countries up to gangs in the USA , but , I guarantee you not any where near the escalation of crack and cocaine that flooded the Brazilian market , that Farc has maybe thirty percent of the action , and shot Brazil up to the number one crack using country in the world

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  277. @ B.R.

    “You bet USA hemmoroids have been over examined in this blog in comparison to any other country.”

    You say that like it is a bad thing. I and most commenters live in the US. To notice the faults of other countries more than one’s own would be hypocritical, if not propagandistic.

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  278. BR, DO NOT TO PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.
    You do it over and over.
    You don’t read what I say and then you make up whatever you like about and say it’s what I said. Stop it.

    To add: you are doing precisely what I said above: distract and finger point.
    The only difference with you is that you want to claim that you are “realer” than anyone else because of where you live, because you deal with “realities”, whilst always claiming that you are “the first” to say the US is dirty, and then drowning that out by pointing the finger at others nations..

    I am quite tired of it over and over again, and I think this maybe the last time I try to have a rational conversation with commenters who deliberately take what I say to promote their own commentary by trying to make me look like I am something I am not.
    ********************************************************************************************

    Anyway back to Nigeria.

    @ Linda

    Since the Nigerian army can’t seem to handle the situation–it appears that the villagers in north Nigeria have decided to protect themselves:

    First, thank you for the update. There are a few things which concern me about this subject.

    1) I want to see the children back but if they were returned, would it change Nigeria? Would similar stuff keep happening anyway?
    What is going on in Nigeria has been happening for decades.
    It follows a pattern which is familiar in that country: no general faith in the institutions because pledges and promises are empty, and people are accustomed to disappointment from their leaders.
    Would Nigeria would be better and different for Nigerians, even if the children were returned?
    Their kidnap is only symptomatic of the conditions in which these outrages flourish.

    2)The profile of Boko Haram and its use in the Western Media
    It’s a knock-on effect: because the news focus is on Boko Haram, rather than the conditions that created their burgeoning presence, this small-time Salafist sect has done well in to propel itself onto the world stage.
    I have a feeling its leaders are pleased as punch that their sect now has the very public attention of not only the American President, but his wife, too.
    With the focus is on Boko Haram, it may remain probably fixed on them in the media’s expectation of an increasing African Destruction — because the media loves stories about African Destruction. So, yes, it will keep Boko Haram in high profile, rather than explaining the great complexity which is Nigeria.

    3)How much Nigeria’s present situation with Boko Haram will be traced back to the action of the British?
    Oh, the detractor/apologists will say, colonialism is irrelevant to what is happening now, simply an excuse, it’s all the Africans’ fault. It’s Islam’s fault! It’s religious extremism!
    Religion is definitely part of it, but wait, isn’t NIGERIA IS A BRITISH INVENTION?
    Wasn’t created to further British business, and wasn’t Nigeria DESIGNED to only be temporary union to be governed by the North?

    Now and again Nigerians have mentioned that the oneotime British Governor-General of Nigeria during 1914-1919, Lord Lugard, who put North and South Nigeria together to serve Britain’s economic interests.
    He also predicted the fracturing that is happening in NOW.
    In fact, the “amalgamation” he presided over, yes, we are talking in the language of business — just recently expired. It began in 1914 and it was said then that Nigeria would “last for 100 Years Only”…

    What Lugard oversaw was that North was poor and did not have the educated people to run it as a country: this was ideal! They could be used to secure Britain’s interests, because:
    The British needed the railway from the North to the coast to further the interests of British business.
    Thus, Lugard granted the powerful but illiterate men of the North the authority to collect taxes, providing them with a salary and permission to govern — basically to represent ENGLAND in what would become known as “Nigeria”… Lugard hated an African who could read and write — intellectuals — and actively opposed the education of “natives”. They had to be kept away from the other Nigerians who read books, or wrote…

    It’s said that he: “blocked qualified Africans educated in Britain from playing an active role in the development of the country, preferring to advance prominent Hausa and Fulani leaders {from the North} from traditional structures..”
    (My parenthesis.) to him:
    “the typical African … is a happy, thriftless, excitable person, lacking in self control, discipline and foresight, naturally courageous, and naturally courteous and polite, full of personal vanity, with little sense of veracity …in brief , the virtues and defects of this race-type are those of attractive children.”

    Lugard was honoured by his Queen, and many places in Nigeria are named after him.

    In private, the plan was simple:
    “Our mission was {destroy the Africans’} opposition at all fronts.”
    Here:
    http://oregie.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/lord-lugards-amalgamation-of-northern-and-southern-nigeria-expires-in-3-months-time/

    This pattern is known in India. Palestine. Sudan: make a mess by splitting and joining-up ethnic and religious lines, and then go, but make sure it pays.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lugard,_1st_Baron_Lugard

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  279. contd:

    What the news is not also not saying much about is Boko Haram’s rise since climate change started to kick in Nigeria:

    With such domestic oil production challenges undermining Nigeria’s oil export revenues, the fuel subsidy slash has pushed the brunt of the crisis onto the population, escalating the poverty and inequality that is a recruiting sergeant for Islamist terror.

    (Nafeez Ahmed, from here:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/may/09/behind-rise-nigeria-boko-haram-climate-disaster-peak-oil-depletion)

    More:

    One reason for the rising conflict in northern Nigeria, of which the abduction of the girls in Chibok is a consequence, is the ruthless determination of the government in Abuja to exploit huge reserves of oil in the Chad Basin and so secure a reduction of its over-dependence on the oil of the Niger Delta.

    Should oil in Northern Nigeria be exploited successfully, Nigeria’s foreign exchange earnings would increase and it is claimed oil revenue could be used to improve the social and economic welfare of the vastly poorer Nigerians in the region, something that did not happen in the case of the Niger Delta….

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  280. Abagond , I have rarely , if ever , have disagreed with your observations of white racism in America, right there , I am on board with the majority of your criticsms , and examinations of American hemmoroids..I just find your international take on America and what has happened in my lifetime to either be one sidedly informed, or , led by your personal bias and agenda

    You did the thread about the children dying in the drone strikes, but, you dont really care about children dying , or you would have far more posts about children dying in greater numbers about many things…it really isnt on your agenda like dogging Obama is

    I brought in pertinente information on the Pakistan , Índia , Afghanistan triangle , against some very limited description of what was happening , and you mocked it saying I sound just like a white man , Archie Bunker at that…yet your grasp of what is happening there sound very poorly informed , or very one sided..

    as well as agreeing with someone that made maligning statements about my relationships with black women combined with observations on my sexuality, which were total bs and revealed something about how you really feel about me….dont worry Abagond, I can asure you we are on radicly oposite sides on abortion…..maybe you can tie that in with me being white also

    When I have brought up various times , in condemnations on here of USA policies, that mostly are cold war originated , the multi millions of people eliminated in China, because of Marxist ideology , you do a thread on The Asian Atrocity, not to really examin the absolute horror of what happened , but to say its a deflection derailment tactic by people who use it, a major short sightedness by you, but more than you, a serious flaw in people either from the far left , or the people who picked up the red flag propaganda pages with Castros snot on it and regurgitate it without really understanding the reality of those ghastly horrors, by the way I didnt nor would I ever call it the Asian Atrocity, that is your progection of how you think I see it , I call it the Marxist atrocity….I mean you got people like Chomsky saying China had better health care back then than the USA , while multi millions died of starvation…id call that horrible health care…..this sounds absurd to anyone rejecting Fox news crap , and far left dogma, trying to find the truth in all this

    And this thread , I have the impresion that the only reason this thread came up is because M. Obama held up her sign and some drones have been requested

    Where is the thread on the Kenya mall massacre, Al Quaeda in Mali,? If anything , the Kenya Mall massacre should be disscussed and I just linked an article that gives the much more logical description of Boko Haram being armed and trained in Mali when Al Quaeda was there, and that there are links to some of the other extremist religious terrorist groups and attacks…there are obvious networks in place, and that is closer to the truth than Bulaniks sensationalised , extremly flawed Wikileaks link implicating the cia sending people out on suicide bombing missions on LSD

    Bulanik , you are the one bringing in these sensationalist flawed links , and making grandiosed clichêd dogmad rhetorical statements about the USA foreign policy, I hardly care if you got them from American sources, most Americans have biased views one way or the other, and will make sometimes ridiculous claims to support their perspective sides….

    If you cease diologue with me about it that has absolutly no bearing that I will come in to point out flaws in your comments. You have brought in much good information on here,on this blog, and you have also been a source of badly biased and flawed information that begs to be chalenged. If this flusters you so much you have to start some petty psuedo psycho analisis of where you think Im coming from , so be it..what ever rational you think Im coming from, I learned to stand up to biased lies and false depictions of what the USA has done, by being forced on the ground to search for the truth….I dont argue Fox news talking points, I have 28 years of rubbing up big time against frames of minds whose ideologies has inspired them to lie and hide the truth…Im not clamming up on here because I offend some peoples false sensibilities….and Im not in here to make freinds or step in line…

    Like


  281. @ B.R.

    That post was about the Asian atrocity ARGUMENT, not the atrocities themselves. You are hardly the only one who uses it.

    Again, this not a Crimes Against Humanity blog.

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  282. @ BR

    I am not the only one who says you put words into their mouths: you do this with other commenters, too. You can disagree with stooping to that.

    If I point out where your argumentation FAILS, it is not psycho-analysis. Psycho-analysis is what happens during mental health consultations.

    You use The Arab Trade Argument or technique to have things your way.
    As for for sensationalism, you take the prize for exaggeration and over-emotionalism.

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  283. @ BR

    Further, I don’t perceive what you bring in or say in disagreement as A CHALLENGE. Maybe you think you’re challenge, but not really, to me.
    What you say is only another opinion.
    There are many people who stand up for truth in tough conditions, but they are modest about it. Yes, on occasion I take an interest in what you say, but you repeat yourself and get so emotional I can’t understand what you’re saying, so don’t read on.

    Personally, I visit this blog because of Abagond’s writing and to read what some of the other commenters have to say, that’s more interesting to me.
    I don’t have anything against you, BR.

    Like


  284. In Africa, advancement comes slowly. If at all. The forces that are damaging Nigeria? Deep government corruption. Absence of meaningful education. And Islam.

    Half the population is still waiting for indoor plumbing and electricity.

    How many of those kidnapped girls are now pregnant?

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  285. Sb32199

    Besides the fact that you lost you arguments several threads up. Your trolling behavior that requires you to repeat your arguments is just sad. ROFL

    Like


  286. @sb32199

    “would you rather live in an Islamic theocracy? A European or Scandinavian nation? Or the US or Canada?”

    None of the above. I’d prefer to live in a non-xenophobic society where law enforcement does not discriminate based on one’s beliefs or appearances. Those countries you mentioned don’t fit the bill.

    “As I stated previously, the Islamic world came by virtually all the knowledge for which it’s credited by conquest.”

    The same can be said for the European countries, which stole knowledge (books, devices, etc.) from all over the world, and used it to oppress, conquer and create wealth for themselves…and we have evidence to prove it. Your type hates to acknowledge this truth.

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  287. I asked

    “would you rather live in an Islamic theocracy? A European or Scandinavian nation? Or the US or Canada?”

    resw77 writes:

    None of the above. I’d prefer to live in a non-xenophobic society where law enforcement does not discriminate based on one’s beliefs or appearances. Those countries you mentioned don’t fit the bill.

    “None of the above” was not one of the choices. Obviously, you would have chosen it if I had included the option. So let’s try again by picking from among the list of choices I gave.

    Or you can simply tell me the name of the country in which you live.

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  288. @sb32199

    “So let’s try again by picking from among the list of choices I gave.

    Although you don’t dictate how I respond, if it were a multiple choice question and “none of the above” was not an option, then I would have skipped it since none of your choices was applicable.

    “Or you can simply tell me the name of the country in which you live.”

    Where I live is irrelevant since it is possible to live somewhere that I find less than ideal.

    Back to the subject matter, you’re trying to convince us that Islam is inevitably bad and Christianity is inevitably good. But in doing so, keep in mind that Boko Harem or Khomeini are not good representations of Islam just as Army of God or Hitler are not good representations of Christianity.

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  289. As Boko Haram goes on a killing spree, recently cross border into Cameroon, and killing people in a town in North Nigeria,, maybe two days ago, the cia acuasations look even more ridiculous…the link I brought in claiming they were fortified by the recent Al Quaeda presence in Mali , really makes much more sence

    Where I was willing to consider colonial ties could have affected the Ruanda killings, trying to tie that into these recent events in Nigéria, Kenya , Mali , and other troubled conflict spots in some countries in Africa , seems s naive or some agenda of hide the truth

    In fact , this is the drama of Islam in Africa playing itself out since Islam was introduced into Africa. Mali was a great example of benign Islam , that lives peacefully with the other cultures there , and the brutal conquering , forced fundamentalist doctrins of that side that came to Africa from the outside…

    To be sure, many people converted to Islam in Africa, whole kingdoms converted, but there was a violent side, of conquering , as well as the gigantic cruel Arab slave trade going on…and this dynamic played out in Mali just recently , minus a huge slave trade

    The Arab Trader Argument absolutly does not aply here , and , is why it borders on ridiculous when used out of context, I catagoricly regect it in this case…it becomes nothing but hiding from facing the truth about violent fundimentalist people who butcher true Islam, Boko Haram isnt Aráb., but , they may have gotten arms and aid from recent Al Quaeda activity in Mali. If we cant acknowledge these possibilities in here, we are in fairy tale land, where the CIA senda people out on suicide bombings on LSD

    Its heartbreaking to think Nigéria , the cradle of incredible cultures , like Igbo, Ogeno etc, has Cristian and Islamic conflicts shedding blood of the people there…

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  290. ahhh, resw77, an anonymous figure on the internet, can’t offer a straight answer to a simple question. The unwillingness to answer suggests you live in one the world’s nice countries, but one that you’d rather denigrate. Okay.

    I said:

    “As I stated previously, the Islamic world came by virtually all the knowledge for which it’s credited by conquest.”

    The same can be said for the European countries, which stole knowledge (books, devices, etc.) from all over the world,

    Ahh, no, didn’t happen like that. As we know, enlightenment and knowledge were not results or prizes of conquest, at least not for non-Islamic conquerors.

    What devices? The abacus? The printing press?

    Yeah, there was plenty of conquering underway for a long, long time. Everyone on the planet was into it at one point or another. To gain land, labor and some resources. But not for seizing a place to control of its university.

    Knowledge of the sciences and mathematics got around in the usual collegial way that such information travels. I haven’t read a single account of anyone mugging Isaac Newton for his notes on Calculus or Physics. Have you? You’re the first to suggest raiding parties were sent to the offices of intellectuals to steal every copy of their books, papers, treatises, what-have-you.

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  291. B.R, there is no “true Islam”. It’s a do-it-yourself religion that assumes whatever form its purported adherents wish. The many different factions each identify as the true religion. Each says the other is false. Thus, it’s just another ball of confusion.

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  292. @ sb

    Oh please. Christianity is very much a do-it-yourself religion too. I could start my own church. In fact I know someone who did just that.

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  293. I absolutly agree with that , Abagond….I have little respect for all fundimental religions that step out of their Mosques, Churches , Synagouges , Temples , whatever, and start mandates on peoples lives and think its ok to violently impose their will …and , its fine with me if the government discovers a Christian right wing Amerucan citizen racist group ready to bomb someplace they hate, and the government goes in and wastes them…..you get my meaning? Hey , you know what is funny , most of the clam up and defence out there of these extremist fundamentalists from Al Quaeda , or Talaban , who arnt from the areas they are from, come from far left wing , America hating, disgrunteled ex Marxists in some cases, or people who fell for the dogma ….and these extremist fundimental kill in the name of their religion , sobs of any religion, are from the far right ?!?! Isnt that a kick ? I love it when polar opisites cuddle up in bed and play footsie….the toe jam smell is over powering though…if you can see through it

    I cant put my finger on it , Abagond, but your dry short phrase responce to my long post of detailed litanies is some kind of comic genius , I mean its like your straight man Dean Martin to my Jerry Louis…but , besides that ,that was kind of my point, you have no intention of going into the reasons behind the actual horrors, the flawed ideology, why we were fighting against it….beleive me…I know you didnt start it for me, but , you also know its on the tip of my tongue, because I perceive how absolutly disgusting and ominous it is…you bet it was worth fighting against an ideology like that….

    Like


  294. Earlier, I said that:

    The British needed the railway from the {Islamic} North to the coast to further the interests of British business.

    Times change, but these abductions also have a strong BUSINESS motivation. This time, it’s not only just the British who are benefitting: the controlling tentacles aren’t marked out by train tracks, instead, they cross seas and borders, and are shielded by the military.

    Whilst in Turkey recently, I noticed at least a couple of conversations on the lines of : “Why are we Turks being the pimps for Americans and Europe of NATO?”
    It seems there has been a long-held-suspicion that the country is deeply involved in the trafficking of children, especially girls, some Turkish, many from Russia and Ukraine, but more and more from the countries in North and West Africa — Nigeria being no exception. Turkey is the perfect spot for trafficking, due to its location.

    Some were saying that the conflict in Syria was “the latest” crisis (the belief is that the Syrian crisis is an engineered crisis, just like Nigeria is now) aimed to increase the business of arms sales and trafficked sex slaves through Turkey to Syria.
    NATO is central and Boko Haram is the latest in the supply/demand chain.
    Destabilised countries are business opportunities. Any destabilsed nation obviously need a NATO military presence, and military presences require a steady supply of sex slaves. Religion is useful as a lubricant and rhetorical justification, but probably immaterial beyond that.

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-intel-detects-possible-signal-from-austrian-jihad-girls.aspx?pageID=517&nID=65359&NewsCatID=359

    Turkish Airlines has been implicated in the transporting of arms to Nigeria:
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-airlines-refutes-claims-over-arms-shipments-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=63791&NewsCatID=341

    There was also talk of “pressure”, too, for Turkey to play its part in “maintaining security and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area and in providing a forum for political-military consultations on topics of interest to NATO’s members.”
    That is official wording of the country’s Foreign Office.
    It seemed to be that if the country does not play ball, is too independent and too strident it runs the risk of reprisals…it will be perceived as a “a danger” not only the world, but to the US in particular:
    http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2014/01/30/18828.shtml

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  295. abagond, while it’s true that every religion includes a lot of home-made, localized characteristics, the difference between Islam and all the others is in the fact that Islam is a religion, a political ideology and a military. All three, because Muhammad was that kind of all-around leader.

    Islam is the only ideology around today that pulls off that 3-for-1 trick. So even though there are some goofy Christian sects, they’re powerless, as though the whole Christian belief system includes a couple of dozen appendices.

    What happens in Islam? The Sunnis and the Shiites fight all-out wars with each other. They commit daily acts of terror in virtually every Islamic nation.

    The various Christian sects aren’t committing any acts of terror. The most offensive has been the Westboro Church of screwballs. They killed exactly zero of their enemies, and they themselves were lucky they weren’t attacked at any of the places where they performed the psychotic act.

    Like


  296. resw77 says:

    … and used it to oppress, conquer and create wealth for themselves…and we have evidence to prove it. Your type hates to acknowledge this truth.

    Since the appearance of democracy and capitalism, there’s been a vast creation of wealth that’s flowed everywhere. As we know, trillions of dollars have flowed into the coffers of the middle east oil producers. Of course, the leaders of those nations have kept most the money for themselves, though Kuwait seems to have shared the wealth with all its citizens.

    Obviously the problems in Africa have nothing to do with conquest and oppression, and everything to do with internal corruption, violence, and the downward spiral induced by the growing power of Islam.

    Amazingly, all that supposed knowledge accumulated by muslims has evaporated, or been forgotten, or was somehow extracted from the minds of almost all muslims.

    Meanwhile, why do you obsess over the manner in which valuable knowledge made its way around the world hundreds of years ago when there are billions of people living today who could have all of it for free and make incredible use of it — but do not?

    Isn’t it far more important to become part of the educated class today rather than waste time trying to pin the blame for some long-ago act on people who’ve been dead for centuries? Even if you’ve identified the malefactors, your efforts will change for the billions of people who live in primitive ignorance today.

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  297. contd

    Afaik, something similar happened in Sudan, in around 2008.
    That country fractured further, and it seemed that that development came around the same time a depletion of oil resources made the exploration of Sudanese resources the right thing to do…

    Like


  298. “Some were saying that the conflict in Syria was “the latest” crisis (the belief is that the Syrian crisis is an engineered crisis, just like Nigeria is now) aimed to increase the business of arms sales and trafficked sex slaves through Turkey to Syria.
    NATO is central and Boko Haram is the latest in the supply/demand chain.
    Destabilised countries are business opportunities. Any destabilsed nation obviously need a NATO military presence, and military presences require a steady supply of sex slaves. Religion is useful as a lubricant and rhetorical justification, but probably immaterial beyond that.”

    Let me get this straight , the Syria conflict has nothing to do with shiite sunni conflicts , and really was engineered like Nigéria now (is this supposed to mean the cia ?) for the purpose of increasing sex slaves (!!??) and arms ?

    Wow …Any takers on this one ? I just knew in the back of my mind that some where , some people would link the Syria conflict to the cia, or nato or the west….I guess the cia has orchestrated every conflict on the face of this earth…or could be blamed for it…or Nato sex slaves…..

    I could use a dry Dean Martin punch line right now , Abagond…these international discussions that deal with USA policy in the last sixty years are turning into bad jokes

    Its thinking like this from Turkey , that makes me very happy to have Obama in office…You know , I dont blame the government for the children that died when they went after David Koerich…I blame Koerich…do you get my drift ? Tim Mccvei did blame the USA government …you know , the reality of this is as plain as day if you can clear away the fantacy fairy tales ….fiction can be fun….cia , nato, orchestrating Syria and Nigéria for sex slaves…that is hard to top…I mean, Ive heard some real silly cia conspiracy theories down here , but engineering the Syria conflict for sex slaves takes the cake…anything but look at the truth…the scummy truth of nut jobs turning into fanatical fundimental religious extremists , taking the world hostage for their gross grusome political religious power agenda…..or the depth of the horribly violent Shiite Sunni conflicts that are a source of much violence in the history of the Middle East….

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  299. @ sb

    Your approach is ahistorical. You are comparing Islam and Christianity as they are right now. Compare them over the last 1400 years and you will see that they are two peas in a pod. By world standards they are almost the same religion. For example, my own beliefs as a Catholic are 88% the same as a Sunni Muslim’s.

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  300. For anyone who:
    -reads,
    -listens to different nationalities talking about their countries and others,
    -watches what is being said (and not said) in the mainstream media, and,
    -thinks carefully — modern-day-trafficking patterns in Africa + Asia not only exist, but are a feature of colonialist-style business practices.
    The businesses of war and the excuses for waging it are apparent to all but the most naive.

    http://www.wnyc.org/story/nigerian-kidnapping-highlights-scale-of-child-trafficking-in-africa/

    http://www.irinnews.org/report/47811/nigeria-15-million-children-work-mainly-to-pay-for-school

    I mean, Ive heard some real silly cia conspiracy theories down here , but engineering the Syria conflict for sex slaves takes the cake
    Someone obviously has no idea that NATO has it’s fingers in pies like this!
    😀

    Like


  301. As a person who gets most of his news information exactly this way, outside America, listening extremly intently to the people outside of the USA ,what is said and not said, reading and watching histories of the country Im in, a country that is not gung ho for America, I have a keen sharp sence exactly what people think about these issues…and there are huge amounts of trite petty disgruntled, resentful false accuasationbs of American policies and inabilities to look in the mirror at their own faults or ambitious power hunters who use America as the boobeyman and blame the cia for everything

    This blog, besides attracting the white racists and race realists, also attracts the anti American sentiments and conspiricy theories like a magnet

    Its very interesting to note, as someone who exactly has formed my international opinion of what is going on in the world , outside of the United States, and developed a backbone how to stand up to this petty crap, on here, for expressing myself on international matters, or the porn thread or booty dancing thread, I have been called a racist and the factual informations I have brought in mocked as thoughts of a “white man”….and my interracial relationships with black women depicted as lewd and exploitive…lucky I do have a backbone…because I sure dont wilt in the face of those false accuasations

    Its absolutly the hight of ridiculousness that any link brought in here has any proof what so ever that outside influences have engineered and are causing the conflict in Syria…and the one link trying to tie in the cia with what is happening in Nigeria isn so full of false information it ought to be ridiculed

    and there is a huge emtiness at looking at very real ties , like how Al Quaeda was in mali and is much more likely to have had contact with Boko Haram, as well as no peep what so ever of the Kenya Mall massacer by Islamic fundimentalists, and how these attacks are happening with frequency in various countries in Africa….and as we go down to a shallow leval, sex trafiking by cia or nato or for nato is actualy sensationaly put on the table…remenber how i say the people who run this anti american crud try to guilt trip you? They bring up sex traficing as the sensationalist way to take attention away from reality…this is an erased comment about sex traficing and child prostitution that was put forth on the booty dancing thead also…I just havent forgotten that at all…using sex traficing as a deflection screen…im waiting for studies by Gail Dines to be submitted to prove this

    Its too bad, this blog is so on point dealing with white American racism and its history, but , absolutly descends into fantacy land when addressing American foreign policy

    Like


  302. Opinions can be huge, extremely, absolutely.

    They are not evidence. Irrelevances is not evidence.

    Emotionalism and exaggerated claims is not evidence.

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  303. http://www.punchng.com/news/bharam-linked-to-group-behind-kenya-mall-attack/

    lets at least look at some more in depth analysis of what is going on and some of the ties to the Kenya Mall massacre that we havent touched on at all, instead of trying to imply the Syria conflict was engineered for the benafit of sex slaves for Nato

    Like


  304. abagond:

    Your approach is ahistorical. You are comparing Islam and Christianity as they are right now.

    That is correct. We live in today’s world, even though Islam wants desperately to take the planet back to the 7th century.

    Compare them over the last 1400 years and you will see that they are two peas in a pod. By world standards they are almost the same religion.

    Who cares what might have been partially true 1,400 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 500 years ago. The important element is change. Islam has worked hard at remaining static while Christianity has evolved.

    For example, my own beliefs as a Catholic are 88% the same as a Sunni Muslim’s.

    The Sunnis and the Shiites would kill the pope, as one, in fact, tried to do not so long ago Therefore, it’s clear that Islam itself is affronted by Catholicism.

    The concept of a pope is an insult to Islam. Meanwhile, because Islam is that triple-headed ideology, it cannot and will not tolerate free speech, freedom of religion or gender equality.

    Claiming that most Catholic beliefs are the same as Islamic beliefs is meaningless as long as Catholicism has no legal power. If Muslims flouted Islamic law the way Catholics flout the teachings of the Catholic Church, the offending Muslims would lose body parts, if not their lives. So, you really don’t want to go too far with the idea that Islam and Catholicism are two peas in a pod — today. They’re not.

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  305. George

    They have their differences but they are also very similar. As for s3 21st having a point. Not really.

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  306. Correction Sb32199

    Like


  307. In fact all this mess he is rehashing was addressed up thread and once a source was pulled out he bulked. Classic example is when he mentioned a book and tried to say it said one thing and was shame faced to find out bulanik also read the book and was willing to quote from any page. While I found it LOL funny, it also proves to you how legit anything he says is. Besides he lack of ability to provide a link or any source. He runs on opinions and Muslim fear and only a really nice person would cling to what he says as proof and a point.

    Like


  308. Correction naive

    Like


  309. Aha, 2 links about Al Qaeda, and the counter-terrorist, counter-insurgent response.

    One report from CNN, and the other from a Nigerian newspaper.
    The first of these supposedly extremely ground-breaking and in-depth analyses(?) is couched in terms of bombs, bloodletting, hand grenades and talk of “cataclysmic consequences”.
    Not to alarm the reader about TERRORISM FROM ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS.
    Not hysterical at all, not the the usual language of War on Terror! at all.

    The 2nd is also another allegedly powerful and extremely deep revelation, this time from a Nigerian newspaper: a straight lift from a report coming out of the US House of Representatives which tells us basically that there are links between insurgent groups in East and West Africa.

    Neither of these really address the probing, geopolitics of the situation.
    People do care about atrocities, but sometimes these tragedies are complicated events half way across the world, and something like twerking is easier to get to grips with and more read about and understood: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/20/americans-are-tweeting-about-syria-almost-as-much-as-twerking-sometimes-more/
    ***

    Just some notes I refer to when I peruse news stories that should alarm me about terrorism :
    — Symptoms are not causes…
    — The QuestionI: is “Terrorism” the enemy or merely a tactic? (Francis Fukuyama’s wording.)
    And more often than I’d like, I ask myself:
    — what are the well-known uses of mainstream information (that frightens people) vital to maintain perpetual oil wars?

    ***
    But, back to the Kenyan bloodbath.

    “Already, both Kenyan and Western politicians, as well as editorials across the Western media, are attempting to use the attack as a pretext to launch a military campaign against neighboring Somalia, while fueling anti-Muslim sentiment across profoundly ignorant audiences in the West….”

    Sometimes in reporting that, the mainstream media will leave out that Kenya is US’s proxy for aggression in Africa…

    This is done by WITHOUT explaining:
    “Kenya has already participated in military operations against Somalia, including a full-scale military invasion complete with US and French military support in 2011.”

    So, although “the US attempted to deny any role in the invasion”, it has admittedly carried out periodic airstrikes and drone strikes across Somalia, as reported in 2012…

    “…Al Qaeda, for the West, serves as the ultimate geopolitical tool. It can be used as a pretext to invade, as well as a nearly inexhaustible mercenary army to carry out ruthless terrorist campaigns and even full-scale war as seen in Syria and Libya, to achieve Western objectives…”

    From a report about the the “religious fanatics” of Al Qaeda’s Somalia franchise, Al Shabaab:
    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2013/09/kenyan-bloodbath-reaping-benefits-of-us.html

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  310. And what is Africom?

    It is: a Unified Combatant Commands of the United States Armed Forces, headquartered in Germany. It is responsible for US military operations and military relations with 53 African nations.

    It is not altruistic.

    It is ALL OVER the continent “to advance U.S. national interests and promote regional security, stability, and prosperity….{to} most effectively advances U.S. national security interests through
    ocused,
    sustained
    engagement with partners in support of our shared security objectives.
    The command’s operations, exercises, and security cooperation assistance programs support U.S. Government foreign policy and do so primarily through military-to-military activities and assistance programs…

    Our core mission of assisting African states and regional organizations to strengthen their defense capabilities better enables Africans to address their security threats and reduces threats to U.S. interests…”

    But, none of this secret, conspiracy or fictional.

    http://www.africom.mil/what-we-do

    Like


  311. *focused

    Like


  312. Sharina — I’ll make it easy for you. All you have to do is read one page from Bernard Lewis’s “What Went Wrong” and you’ll get enough information to understand that Muslims invented and discovered next to nothing.

    Go to page 7:

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Went-Wrong-Between-Modernity/dp/0060516054/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400785276&sr=8-1&keywords=what+went+wrong+bernard+lewis#reader_0060516054

    As you will learn, the Muslims merely appropriated the Indian numbering system and everything that came out of Ancient Greece and Rome.

    If you read another page or two, you’ll discover how little the Islamic world learned from its contemporaries. Since falling behind, several centuries ago, they’ve remained locked in their own backwardness.

    Today, they still invent and discover nothing.

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  313. Sb32199

    I need not do any such thing seeing as this is an issue originally addressed with bulanik, who has the book and offered to read off a page to you. Yet here you are attempting to throw the book in my face yet seem to avoid bulanik on the very subject.

    This tells me that you some how believe you will get by with someone who you believe won’t purchase or read it and thus can pander your Muslim fear further because if the book was to tell all and your Ace in the hole then the debate would have continued with bulanik. Instead you move on to the next target.

    As for any of your other claims you lost them already and I am not in the mood to repeat. 🙂

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  314. Sharina, bulanik is welcome to read page 7 too. Meanwhile, it’s remarkable that a non-Islamic woman defends Islam, the ideology that still, today, enslaves women and gives them no rights.

    If bulanik believes Islam embraces free thinking and independence of mind, well, what’s to be done? He’s mistaken. Islam is a closed system that can’t see beyond itself, as its adherents prove every day.

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  315. Sb32199

    I found the book and a nice pdf that allowed me to read page 7. And unfortunately page 7 does not say the Islamic world never invented anything. Because your original claim and I will quote:

    “the Islamic world has invented virtually nothing.”

    I do believe you at one time made the claim they simply invented nothing but I will have to find that quote. At any rate, from what I read you seem to be more interesting the meaning of what he is saying per that page rather than actually taking in what he IS saying.

    All in all people have said he says things with little or no means to support it, so while a source I hang on the fence in regards to it.

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  316. Sb32199

    Muslim fear tactics don’t work on me. So you can save the mumbo jumbo on what they don’t allow women to do. Besides it is called fear and deflection and is often use by those who can’t support or carry out their debates.

    I prefer if you address and own up to your claims rather than dance around it as you have done thus far.

    If you need me to quote from page 7 I will be happy to do this as well or you can continue to show boat. Either way you already lost your argument and this is just entertainment.

    Like


  317. Correction More interpreting the meaning of what he is saying.

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  318. Sharina, page 7 of the text I posted states very plainly that the Islamic world merely took what was invented or created by others and made use of it.

    On the next few pages, the text goes on to state how the Islamic world eventually began to fail to take notice of the advancing knowledge outside its territory and was eventually surprised to find itself lagging.

    Islam limits itself by its ability to enforce religious law, which, in the case of Islam, cannot tolerate anything that appears to outshine Muhammad. Like I said, innovations in science and math never originate in the Islamic world, and even when it appeared a few ideas did begin there, a little investigating always proved the idea had its beginnings elsewhere and the Islamic world appropriated it, and they spread it around.

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  319. Sharina, quote from page 7. Start with the first sentence on the page.

    Like


  320. Sb32199

    The first sentence states “Islamic Middle east that Indian numbers were the first time incorporated 8th the inherited body of mathematical learning. ”

    As far as page 7 much of what you say is not there and we are not talking about the next page but page 7. So either you need to reread your own source or you manner of interpretation is lacking.

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  321. It does mention that the Europeans progressed in the civilized arts leaving Muslims behind but as to why it does not clearly say and leads me to believe that is where you insert your assumptions and speculation. Something I am not interested in. If I wanted interpretation I will go look at a movie.

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  322. Correction in not 8th

    Like


  323. “Nile Bowie is a Malaysia-based political analyst and columnist with Russia Today. ”

    So this point of view is brought to us by an American who writes for Russia Today…now just what do you think that means? or who does that remind you of?

    So lets go over what it really means…

    Kenya got hit way back near 9/11, they have every reason to be defensive about Islamic fundamentalist bombings, since it has been plaguing them a lot longer than the Mall massacre…trying to imply they are just flunkies for the USA is the hight of hypocracy, since Bin Laden himself was all in countries near
    Kenya way before he ever got to Aghanistan, just like this Islamic radicle tension has been plaguing Africa a lot longer than ever 9/11 happened..thinking Kenya is just fighting the USA war is extremly naive, they are fighting it anyway and more power to them…

    Same with Nigeria…and up into Mali..my gosh this was all happening way before Lybia…assuming a flood of weapons siphoned off from those offensives is the catalyst and cause of what has happened, borders on ridiculous..in my eyes, the kidnapping of 200 girls is not the template of this struggle…people are getting massacered way before and as we speak…Mali was going through its Al Quaeda conficts will before Libya…

    And anyone who has been reading about what Al Quaeda has been doing in Yemen and their incursions into Africa , how it is on their agenda of entering and contacts and sending weapons and training and actual Al Quaeda people there, so much longer before LIbya , the notion that that was the catalyst of these things happening now looks foolish

    all this in the light of recent muslim bombings in China, also related to Al Quadea, just heard that on Brazilian news…I guess its just too hard to really face the truth about radicle Islamic fundamentalist extremists..its much easiar to blame Lybya , and the engineered sex trade out of the Syria conflict..and blame it on the cia

    I support any people in Africa standing up and fighting against these sob fanatics..

    Like


  324. I guess its really hard to face that, all over the Islamic world , and Africa, people of all religions are teaming up with the USA to fight this scum…people make it like this is some USA engineered manipulation of everyone…what a joke, these people are plagued by this scum and their disgusting methods and religious fanatacism and are gladly teaming up with the USA to confront them

    how silly of American haters to try to make it out like some usa psych conspiricy…these people have no idea of what they are defending to try to manipulate on their little blogs and political agendised half truths

    people hate this fundimentalist crud and are standing up to it

    Like


  325. @ George

    As soon as I saw “scum” and America “haters” come up, I knew this was all that was left in the tank.
    ***

    Weren’t you the one who told me on “Where are really from thread”, right out of the blue, about how great the USA was, and didn’t non-Americans want to be there. Something like that…

    When I asked you what on earth were you talking about, and why were you telling ME that, you said you didn’t know, you just wanted to say how your country is the best in the world. I’ll see if I can find exactly what you said, because it was really weird, and I thought you were up to something, right then and there.

    Calling others “scumbags” says a lot if that’s the only way to discuss foreign affairs.

    Like


  326. That was after you you AGREED with Da Jokah.

    You agreed with him because you wanted to say that the Europeans were innocent in Africa, and you didn’t like that either.

    Like


  327. @ george
    and I believe that people who plan wars, incite genocide, sell arms, trade in lies, etc., etc., FOR PROFIT rely on people like you to make a killing.

    sue me.

    Like


  328. @ george

    can’t you handle the truth?

    Like


  329. @ George, speak English.

    Like


  330. What is extremly revealing about the article Bulanik brought in ,by an American living in Malaysia writing for Russia Today , is how great an example it is of how you can use hack jornalism to slant a situation that is much bigger than the cia and USA, and , push it through we are only going to examine this situation through American hemmorroids

    This persons main slant is, the USA funneled huge arms into the Lybia conflict , to extremist Islamic groups, who then filtered over to Syria and those conflicts caused these hookups with the Mall massacre and Boko Haram…

    What is left out is the real big picture of what was happening back then from Tunisia, Lybia , Egypt, now Syria….major , absolutly major earth shaking violent changes , happening at an unbeivable rate, the USA couldnt even keep up with it let alone have anything to do with engineering them…and , some players in these huge country gut churnings, had major pasts with the West ,like Kadaffi…who helped in the Lochkerbee plane bombine, I guarentee you one thing, the West does not have a short memory about those things, they will hang on to it…its quite clear the bumbling cia came in quite late and badly informed on all these conflicts and they were chaos…you cant even really describe them now..Egypt has flip flopped in a wild bizarre yet , not uncomfortable way for me…you think the cia is doing this? This is these people acting out their destiny…this chaos carries out all over in the areas…chaos is like that…this chaos that the USa didnt create, cant help but playing out in surrounding countries…

    making it all this cia , USA orchestrated cause and reason why and blaming , is muck racking hack jornalism…i spit on it..the limited narrow view is , not really seeing the bigger picture, only looking at the USA magnified slanted against it ,

    As I said above, these dynamics have been going on a lot longer with more brutal incidents…people being slaughtered…not kidnapped..in Kenya also..and in many other places…Mali was all too clear..yet the scream of colonisers was all over that…

    muck raking hack jornalism…cia sending people out on lsd for suidide bombings, engineering the Syria conflict because of sex trade for Nato..really revealing ….yeah my nose perked up at the bad smell when i saw those kind of things

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  331. @ George

    And, I am RIGHT ON THE SUBJECT. You just don’t like what I say.

    In that other thread, you couldn’t even accept that Europeans had any responsibility in Africa’s recent history when the discussion was about Rwanda.

    So, it stands to reason that you can’t accept any what your country’s military-business interests are doing in parts of the world.
    Better to make it all about crazy-ass “scum” moozlims.

    Like


  332. Yeah, scum..just like the Olympic bomber…you know, Christians where he lived helped him out to survive longer…left food for him…these people supported his radicle views and his methods of acting…most Christians would deplore this, but, for those fundimentalist Christians, who think its ok to kill doctors practicing abortions, some of those , who represent some small power and money, dont flintch inside at supporting him..

    yet , any sane Christian can easily see punks like this as scum, who let their impulses let them do the most ignorant cowardly thing..in the name of his fundimental beleifs…same with Koerich, scum bag fundimentalist Christian, with multiple under age girls as his sex mates…I have no problem seeing these radicle fundamentalists as scum , and the people who would support them, and then go out and kill, in the most disgusting way , innocent people in a mass bombing because they hate the government…Tim Mccvei after seeing what happened to Koerich and the innocent girls…I dont blame the government..

    Yeah, disgusting scum..anyone have problem with that? Blow them away to hades, fundamentalistic extremist who use that violence deserve to be anialated…yes, I absolutly hate these people ..all of them and every religion that has these sobs misusing those religions

    I take a crap on all of them

    Like


  333. Oh, quick, let’s not make this about Muslims, blacks or Asians…
    Be sure to mention Christians and white bombers…

    The cynicism of it.

    Like


  334. BR’s links were 2 re-hashed US policy documents regarding Nigeria. TWO.

    One was grounded in counter-terrorism hyperbole, from of all places — CNN.
    The 2nd, from a US house of rep. paper cut and paste for Nigerian newssheet.

    Neither was stunningly and powerfully ground-breaking as promised, to counter the myriad proofs and research to the contrary, that shows the military-colonial-business interest play in Nigeria as well as other parts of Africa and Asia. AFRICOM’s own website says what it is for all to see.

    ****
    The rest is what I consider “empty tank”.
    It is attempts to APPEAL by the use of exaggerated language
    In this instance, to encourage a visceral response through disgust (of course), by toilet-talk: by smells, anus and entrails. Quite unnecessary.
    LOL.

    I am sure there are other ways to pursue the pure and righteous love of what is just in the world…

    As this is a blog, I have far more respect for rational argument and evidence to back it up. Obviously too much to ask for!

    Like


  335. Just couple notions:

    1. CIA was involved in so-called Arab Spring from the get go. Thus, the popular movements against the dictatorships in those countries were manipulated and partly organised by the US government. The US “ambassador” to Libya, whom his formes allies murdered, was actually in Egypt and other arab countries PRIOR his posting in to Libya DURING the upheavals.

    2. If US was not backing Boko Haram, it is pretty hard to explain why state department fought tooth and nail to keep it off the terrorist organisation lists at least up untill 2012, when Hilary Clinton made it her personal effort to keep Boko Haram NOT inlcuded to the list of terrorist organisations.

    3. As we speak, USA is involved in conlficts in Syria, Venezuela, Ukraine, Libya, Nigeria and various others. Organisations such as USAID are the tools to destabilitise nations and countries USA wishes to take over in some form or another.

    4. Example Ukraine: the so-called Orange revolution was organised and funded by various US organisations which, later on, have been disclosed been in contact with government agencies. Victoria Nuland gave speech at Washington Press Club 13the of december 2013, that is more than two months BEFORE Yanukovitsh was ousted, in which she stated that USA has invested 5 billion dollars into Ukraine. On what?

    We saw that 18. – 22.2. 2014 when protests at Maidan turned into full blown revolution. Well before that Victoria Nuland was talking with the US ambassador of Ukraine (her famous Fuck EU phone call) and in that phone call Nuland and ambassador selected the next Ukraine government. That government is now holding power in Ukraine and it came to power trough an armed revolution, man to man, and it was chosen by US government.

    By the way, vice president Joe Bidens son was recently “chosen” to be one of top excutives in the biggest Ukranian energy company. Ukranian situation? Tell me it is not about gas and oil.

    The idea that USA was involved creating Boko Haram and was backing it up in nothing sensational. USA backed up the mujahedin of Afganistan, Osama bin Laden included. USA did similar things in several countries after WW2. It is a standard procedure. Destabilize, create chaos, military coup or revolt, minority government etc. This has happened many, many times over and over again. It is done in the name of national security and/or humanitarian effort. In reality it is done to advance US business interests.

    Doesn’t ring a bell, that US goverment has demanded the right to set up military bases in Algeria, Libya and Tunisia (which by the way refused, so we might see “civil unrest” in those countries too in near future)? Why would USA want permanent military bases on the North Africa? To protect nigerian girls? US government does not give a hoot about the hudreds of missing black kids in USA. Why it would care about nigerian ones? Could it be that there is something else in that region?

    Ehem, well, yes. Oil, uranium etc.

    Always follow the money. That is where the truth shows up, sooner or later. It is always about the financial interests of big companies around the globe.

    It is also good to remember that there are already French Foreign Legion troops, French army troops, brittish special forces in action in Mali, Central Africa, Niger, Nigeria etc. So the Pan African war is already going on. Naturally, all of these forces are there to “assist” and “support” the “humanitarian effort”.

    Like


  336. And Bulanik brings in hack jornalism links with pretty much ridiculous notions of cia sending people out on suicide missions on LSD , the Syrian conflict engineered for sex slaves to nato, and information that is written with tremendous bias about weapons cyphoned off of the Lybian conflict causing these Kenya Mall and Boko Haram incidents..this was common knowledge weapons were going into religous extremists hands , I read it in New York Times articles….in actuality, the USA had to make some presence there , or religous fundimental extremists would have taken over…of course the USA was trying to make a presence , and , in that context , you could see how arms could fall in these extremists hands…they arnt directing these groups , or inventing them

    Its funny when people make these assumtions of invention or directing of people who later are enemies…I think of the picture of Churchil, Roosevelt and Stalin sitting together…I laugh at notions the cia somehow invented Al Quaeda, all they did was throw money at them and trained them to use stingers

    Sami here just made a bunch of speculations based on flimsy evidence…how do I know? He just mentioned the cia is involved in Venezuela right now…where did he get that ? From Maduro every five weeks screaming the cia is involved in trying to over throw him….there is no cia involvement , Maduro cant handle that Chavez policies are so weak that their legacies are tanking Venezuela in a big way so this oil rich nation has huge food shortages , and electricle black outs…and huge civil unrest there now

    If you are that blatently off about that , Sami, how off are your other speculations? You really think , with your cookie cutter depictions , that you have any real idea what is happening in these places? Places like Egypt now? Its all just cia manipulation and control?

    Sami here can tell you every cia base in history, but he falls extremly short definining why they were there and what we were fighting against…As an American I hardly feel the need to answer to half truths , lies slanted biased jornalism, misinformation , and total lack of a description of what the other side was doing…and , no , Bulanik , you dont get to define your petty version of how I feel about fundimental religion…that came out of your rear end

    Yeah , right , Sami, the cia sends people out on suicide missions on LSD, the Syrian conflict was engineered for sex slaves for Nato, and the USA created and are funding Boko Haram…you beleive that bs? Then I dont trust your misinformation as far as I could throw a bus hand cuffed

    Where in gods name did you get your Venezuelan information ? You just bring that in because you read it somewhere ? Did you ever think to look a little deeper to see how that country is failing miserably from exactly the Chavez legacy…yeah , the USA is in Colômbia, helping fight the scum Farc, who were helped by Chavez, in blatent imperialism…

    You just throw out any old information you read somewhere as fact , as long as it implicates the USA….since you are so off about that , it throws a skeptacle light on the rest of your list

    Same with Bulaniks sex trade sensationalist accuasations about the engineering of Syria for sex slaves for Nato, and cia sending out people for suicide bombing missions on LSD ….I mean do you both think its ok to just pull bs from your rear ends and throw it on the table like its fact?

    If this is your big implications on USA policy, its a joke

    Like


  337. The cia is everywhere because they are supposed to be , these lessons were learned the hard way in World War Two…I dont have any sympathy for people who dont understand those lessons…how really dirty this world is…and the current events taking place around the world right now makes me very happy that my government is involved in being vigilant and on the defencive

    How very strange to hear criticsms of some African nations colaborating with the USA to stand up up to fanaticle extremist religious violence. Like there is something wrong about that with hardly a peep about the wanton slaughter coming from the other side…and how those dynamics were shaped long before any USA manipulations…..these dynamics create conflicts that will escalate into something far more ominous if there isnt some colaboration and vigilance, again , World War Two has major lessons about that , and I dont intended to forget them anytime soon

    Thoughout the Islamic world , they are colaborating with the USA to stand up to this crud…

    And , in cases, like Egypt , are people going to really say the USA is manipulating them to over throw the Muslim Brotherhood, with a couple hundred sentanced to death now? Are they really going to patronise the people there by saying its all cia manipulation? Or , are they going to admit this is an internal situation festering in Egypt for a long time and that is how they dealt with it…are they going to admit , most of these situations are far more complex than the ridiculous simplistic half truths and lies they throw out on the table, and in the case if recent events in North Africa, they are going down faster than the West can even keep up with

    Oh yeah, because an Ametican official was in Egypt , that means the USA is in control and manipulating it…that really is logical

    Like


  338. @ George

    “Those scumbags kidnapping girls, those terrorists killing innocent people every day, those who tell women they can’t go outside without an escort or they get acid thrown on their face, those psychopaths that fly planes into buildings and blow up spectators at marathons….

    I’m 100 percent all in for tracking those people down and eradicating them from the earth.”

    I’m gonna quote myself, agree with my own statement, and If there was a like button i’d press that too.

    People who kidnap girls are SCUMBAGS.

    People who burn women’s faces with acid, people who blow up spectators at marathons, people who fly planes into buildings….hunt them down and kill them all.

    This world is better without them. Anyone with common sense knows this.

    And you have lots of common sense, don’t you?
    You are well-informed about geo-politics, aren’t you?
    You are so well-informed you are REALLY UNDERSTAND whiteness and racism, colonialism and international business, don’t you?
    You know what’s happening in the world and have a firm grip on geo-politics, clearly. It’s just common sense — nuke those bastards. Take ’em out.

    Also, aren’t you are the one that told me:

    I don’t know where you are from, but wherever you are, I bet you wish you lived in Merica!

    You bet I wish?
    Where do you get that arrogance from?

    I’d really like to find out how you KNOW this about me. Please tell.

    Whilst you’re at it, tell me about what is really behind the abduction of those Nigerian children. I’d really llike to know.
    Give details and links, please.

    Feel free to quote yourself if necessary there, too.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/where-are-you-really-from/#comment-227899

    Like


  339. @ sami

    Why would USA want permanent military bases on the North Africa? To protect nigerian girls? US government does not give a hoot about the hudreds of missing black kids in USA. Why it would care about nigerian ones? Could it be that there is something else in that region?

    Ehem, well, yes. Oil, uranium etc.

    Always follow the money. That is where the truth shows up, sooner or later. It is always about the financial interests of big companies around the globe.

    It is also good to remember that there are already French Foreign Legion troops, French army troops, brittish special forces in action in Mali, Central Africa, Niger, Nigeria etc. So the Pan African war is already going on. Naturally, all of these forces are there to “assist” and “support” the “humanitarian effort”.

    True words.

    Always follow the money.
    Whether it is war making, trafficking girls, or arms, insurgent-creating, whatever.

    The jingoist emotionalism (toilets, entrails, kill ‘em, etc) we see here, are just the wispy tendrils of the much-larger cover-up machine. Keep it under wraps, distract, insult the news-bringers, appeal to “common sense” and how heroic all this “standing up to”, is..

    Much of the time the American public (and probably a portion of the public in Western Europe, too) are more interested in popular trends rather than geo-politics! From the report written in the Washington Post, I linked earlier:

    When Miley Cyrus made twerking a mainstream phenomenon in August 2013, many an outraged foreign policy workers lamented that more Americans were tweeting about twerking more often than about Syria.

    New research from Floating Sheep, a collective of academic Internet analysts, found that in August, more people tweeted about twerking than Syria in every state except Alaska and Vermont.

    Sad, funny, true.

    Like


  340. @ Sharina, in your last comment to SB, you said about page 7 (the introduction) of the Bernard Lewis book “What went wrong”:

    It does mention that the Europeans progressed in the civilized arts leaving Muslims behind but as to why it does not clearly say and leads me to believe that is where you insert your assumptions and speculation.

    You showed more patience than I could with your answers!
    I have a feeling that no matter what rational response you give, SB will have an irrational one, and keep going until he or she has The Last Word.
    Something’s not right…

    Like


  341. @BR:
    @BR;
    I understand that you, as a cold war kid, see commies and others lurkin all over the place, but don’t shoot the messenger.

    US state department has openly said it supports venzuelan opposition and hopes regime change in Venezuela. Several US organisations are also working IN Venezuela right now. This is public knowledge and has been reported in western european media some time ago. I understand you wish that Happy Days were here again, but in reality: that was an illusion.

    Explain to me why US state department wanted to shield Boko Haram all these years? Why Hilary Clinton wanted to keep Boko Haram from the terrorist organisation list? Why only now, after demands of Nigeria, it is done? Why USA government protected Boko Haram for all this time? I bet you have a great explanation on this. Perhaps it was the commies in the US government?

    As for Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps your media coverage in Brazil is a bit limited. Muslim Brotherhood played almost no part in the anti-Mubarak protest and movement, untill it became obvious that they could succeed. It was only after that, when the Muslim Brotherhood jumped on the band wagon and hijacked the movement for its own purposes. They do this when ever they can. Plus, I think there are now 500-700 death sentences against them right now.

    As for Syria, saudi’s have openly said that they and US government are the biggest financiers of the radical jihadists in that mess. They are also the main weapons suppliers of those same groups. And US government has been out in the public in its support of these groups, who, by the way, killed 86 women, children and elderly men simply because they were christians. That is the biggest massacre of christians since the crusades because of religion.

    Now, don’t you think it is a bit curious that you have tsetshenian fighters, volunteers from all over the western Europe, alqaida-members etc. fighting against the Syrian army? I mean, USA is chasing Al Qaida all over the planet but somehow they get american dollars and weapons and free travel to Syria. And on that note, how come Al Qaida has not attacked Israel not once??

    Just asking, but I know: it is the commies, right?

    Like


  342. @Bulanik

    Thanks. I, however, don’t see myself further quoting any pages for him. I personally think he is a troll. His behavior says as much.

    Like


  343. @ George

    i am sorry this country didn’t treat you as well as it treated me. i’ve read the stories you’ve shared about your experiences here and i can’t say they were feel good stories…

    i too have experienced people get promoted ahead of me when they were clearly undeserving, it really stinks!

    What are talking about? What people getting promotion ahead of me?
    What not feel-good stories?
    You are mixing me up with someone else.

    I don’t what you are talking about.
    I’ve only been on holiday to the US, to see my American — yes, American — family, and have conveyed very few (if any) personal stories about that….
    and, btw, I ONLY consider myself an “expert” on my own life, which is my entitlement, so you couldn’t be more wrong, about me, my view and what I think of myself.

    But, come to think about it, I am not surprised that you don’t know what you are talking about and make false assumptions about me..

    Like


  344. News bringers? How about broad paint brush smears , with strange fantacies…

    Sami….Sami…Sami…your take on Venezuela demonstrates the weakness in your whole aproach…you read that somewhere, some where…first, why wouldnt the USA support the opisition after the incredibly bogus campain Chavez and huis successor , Maduro have laid down against the USA ? When Chavez was the most imperialistic force in ther area, aiding and abbetting Farc and sending suitcases of money to support his candidates in other countries..he used the USA over and over as his boogy man..

    So you read there were somne business people down there , who got kicked out, or some diplomat…

    Let me tell you, no matter what support the USa gives the opisition, or , what diplomats may be trying to get informationon the ground, it is an absolute pubic hair influence on what is really going on…it has very little influence, and that is the same story in these countries in Africa. Venezuela is tanking unmercifly , thanks to the legacy of Chavez,and now Maduro. This absolutly oil rich nation has descended into chaos because those policies have created long lines of food rationing, massive electricle black outs , major violence issues ,etc…The USA has had no part what so ever in these things transpiring,things that look absolutly ghastly , and as a matter of fact is a huge customer for Venezuelan oil…..the people are not out there demonstrating and getting killed because of any USa engineering or tampering…I know that is what you would like to beleive, but , this logic is how you aply it to what is going on kiin countries in Africa

    First, I never said what the Muslim Brotherhood was involved with in the Mubarik ouster, this Muslim Brotherhood that assasinated Anwar Sadat, one of Egypts greatest leaders, and spawned Zawalhari…I said there was a huge flip flop and its going down faster than anyone in the west can keep up with , and , do you really think the cia has anything to do with it?

    Second, your whole take on Syria has the logic you aply to Venezuela…The USA is sending arms to the opisition, among various groups in the opisition, who actualy conflict with each other, jihadists fighting Assad are among them…to not clarify that is a smear on your part…

    What is going on in these countries, that are going through major chaotic violent overturns, is something the USA is coming after the fact..you think they orchestrated it? They are coming in after the fact…in cases like kadafi and Assad, they both were not on best terms with the USA …the USa , seeing these conflicts erupt, didnt want to be left on the sidelines as new dynamics would be emerging…they didnt want the new oponents of these brutal dictators, who started mowing the people down as the conflicts erupted,to be influenced by these militant fundamentalist organisations , without showing they could help the opisition also…its in that context that weapons got in jihadists hands. That is a more complex and complicated situation than your biased depiction…which, by the way, Im not totaly in favor of , myself…but at least I understand it and the complexity..not the cookie cutter version you lay out

    Since you have been extremly speculative here and are smearing with a broad paintbrush, maybe you can link up the Hilary Clinton support of Boko Haram, so I can get a gist of what you are talking about…but, if you want my speculation on top of your speculation, my guess is, Nigeria is a half Islamic population , and maybe she didnt want to offend the Islamic population , after all , this is going on with Jonathon now…and, maybe that was before the obvious hook up with Boko Haram and Al Queada in Mali when Al Quaeda was blatently invading there….and they are infiltrating various countries in Africa , and for a long while now, so , kudos to those African countries that are standing up to this crud…you make it seem like that is some bad thing…how preposterous, absolutly go after that scum and stand up to their bs

    This all in the light of the recent Islamic terrorist bombings in China…that i heard on Brazilian tv, that organisation had contacts with Al Quaeda…so, Sami, what is the Cia manipulating engenineering on that one?

    There are people on here who are in serious denial about what is really happening out here …its all looked on with backwards binoculars only focused on the USA….

    Like


  345. @BR:

    Hilary Clinton did not want to offend the nigerian muslims? Are you kiddin me?? Those same muslims suffer from Boko Haram just like anybody else. These terrorist islamistic organisations are killing mainly other muslims, from Irak to Mali. Why would they be offended if US would call Boko Haram a terrorist organisation? Boko Haram is terrorising mostly them!

    I understand that you turn this critisism as anti-american poop, but you do not get it. It is not the people of USA, but the government acting in your name that does these things. In USA millions of people oppose this government and its assination campaigns and warmongering etc. It is not just some outsiders.

    As for the Uzbek jihadists in western China; are they in cahoots with Al Qaida as the Chinese government CLAIMS, nobody knows. Not even you know who does what in there.

    But US government gave birth to Al Qaida when its supported the mujahedin of Afganistan in 1980’s. Those mujahedins said even back then that they are going to attack USA. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar said so to US diplomats and CIA personel even back then and despite of that USA gave them Stingers and weapons and tens of millions of dollars. The same is happening in Syria!! The saudis have said so openly. It has been in the news here and there. I have no idea in which La La Land you live in.

    As for the Venezuela, are you kiddin me? Chavez was a dictator who nationalized the oil resourses and did what? Free health care for starters, which, by the way, Washington said was wrong. Free schooling for kids, which again, was wrong in the eyes of Washington. He used the money to help the poorest. Which was his biggest crime in western media and Washington.

    The people who suffered under Chavez dictatorship were the middle class business people with close ties to american business and the US companies. It is a fact. And therefore began the campaign to oust him. It is funded, directed, oh sorry, assisted by several US organisations, like USAID, which also poured millions and millions on Ukraine too.

    Do you think it is just an accident that in every country which opposes US strategies and big business, there is similar development?

    At first an organised opposition appears from nowhere. They are well trained and equipped on the media war, they have economical resources to print posters, papers, flyers, t-shirts, to demonstrate, they all unite under certain color (orange for instance), they use the same arguments, they all have the same goals, they all want “freedom and democracy” and closer ties with US and EU… And if the peaceful demonstartions do not topple the government, lo be hold, violence appears, once again, in a similar fashion in all these countries. US cuts all the economic ties, puts on embargos, travel bans,financial restirctions, this and that, BUT the opposition can use the Net, international banking system, has full media access etc.

    You think that is just an accident? Something in the air??

    Please, explain the Boko Haram situation for me. Why would USA want to keep an islamistic terrorist organisation OUT from the international terrorist organisation lists? This is post 911 world, after all. You remember? War on terror and all that?

    Like


  346. @BR: You can start from here but there are as much stuff on the Net as you want, IF you want. But that is another question.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628549/Benghazi-II-Hillary-Clintons-State-Department-ignored-Boko-Haram-terror-groups-2012-threat-murder-U-S-ambassador-Nigeria.html

    Like


  347. @BR:
    I guess Wikileaks info contains more about this but heres one take on the subject of Boko Haram and its alledged connections to the CIA. And, on that note, it is not the people of USA who are doing this, but the government. The same one which told you that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and is about to use them on something somewhere…

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/responsibilty-to-protect-is-nigerias-boko-haram-insurgency-another-cia-covert-operation-wikileaks/5381225

    Like


  348. The legitimacy of Boko Haram’s grievances towards the US and the West are besides the most pressing issue here. The #BringBackOurGirls campaign is an excellent example of “humanitarian” imperialism in the 21st century. If Iranian, Russian, and Chinese people started a media campaign to search for the thousands of children who go missing in the US, and their governments complied by mobilizing their army, air force, and intelligence on American soil and in American airspace, we’d call that an invasion.

    Nigeria is a sovereign nation, and we if we truly stand for the core principle of Democracy; a people’s right to self-determination, than we must respect that sovereignty.

    (Sorry if this appears to be a sock puppet, it couldn’t be helped.)

    Like


  349. taleoflions says:

    If Iranian, Russian, and Chinese people started a media campaign to search for the thousands of children who go missing in the US,

    Missing Russian and Chinese children? In the US? You mean kids who were adopted by US citizens by parents who traveled to Russia and China, who worked with the adoption agencies in those countries?

    Iranian children? In the US? Not too many of them since the Iranian Revolution in 1979. I suppose a few Iranians, that is, Iranian families, have left Iran to escape the Islamic oppression, but Iranian children weren’t kidnapped by Americans and taken out of Iran.

    Meanwhile, there is a problem, a serious problem of middle eastern men, Islamic men coming to the US, marrying American women, having children, and then, suddenly, returning to their middle eastern homeland with their American-born, US citizen kids. The wives are ditched by the husbands who refuse to return the kids, and the middle eastern governments side with the fathers.

    … and their governments complied by mobilizing their army, air force, and intelligence on American soil and in American airspace, we’d call that an invasion.

    As we know, Iran’s military is harmless. Meanwhile, there are several pregnancy centers in the US that are supported by Chinese interests. Citizens of China, pregnant women, go to these facilities and give birth in the US so their children enjoy dual citizenship, which may be of great value to them when the kids are old enough to go to college.

    But no responsible parties have raised the claim of kidnapping of Chinese children by Americans. However, there has been some opposition, in China, to the adoption process.

    Like


  350. @sb32199

    Kidnapped American children that are never found. The children that Boko Haram kidnapped aren’t American, if they were your rant would be relevant.

    Meanwhile, there is a problem, a serious problem of middle eastern men, Islamic men coming to the US, marrying American women, having children, and then, suddenly, returning to their middle eastern homeland with their American-born, US citizen kids. The wives are ditched by the husbands who refuse to return the kids, and the middle eastern governments side with the fathers.

    This is not an international custody battle. This is an invasion of a sovereign country to meddle in its national affairs.

    Like


  351. Boko Haram is against Muslims taking part in Western society – not just receiving a Western education, but even wearing Western clothes or voting. It sees the Nigerian state as run by non-believers, even when it has a Muslim president. Nigeria is 49% Muslim and 49% Christian.

    If Islam has pulled in 49 percent of Nigerians, then all is lost. And soon, to settle the issue, there will be a genocide that rivals Rwanda. Muslims will slaughter Christians and Nigeria will suffer horribly as it’s dragged backwards through several centuries.

    Like


  352. @sb32199

    That you cannot fathom another country invading the US for “humanitarian” reasons like finding kidnapped American children, or squashing an armed insurrection in Nevada says so very much.

    Like


  353. “”
    In a press briefing that day, then-State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland told reporters that ‘there is always this question of whether designating individuals within an organization is the most effective strategy or whether the designating the whole organization is the most effective strategy. So we’re continuing to look at the question of a broader designation.’
    ‘More broadly,’ she added, ‘we are working with the government of Nigeria and encouraging it in its dialogue with forces in the north, to promote a unified, multi – pluralistic Nigeria where the rights of all people, no matter their religion, no matter where they live, are protected in its own security efforts, that it examine its tactics, it look more at policing, and that it begin a real dialogue about some of the roots of the dissatisfaction in the north, which are primarily economic.’

    Sami, I made the point varioius times that Boko Haran is attacking people of Islam as much as non Islam

    Exactly as I explained above, the government and Clinton were reluctant to just condemn all of Boko Haram inicialy, but they did condemn some members of Boko Haram ( for sure , I just think its incompatence and short sightedness)…because of the complex over all nature of Nigeria, where there are many people practicing Islam, the Nigeria government troops were also being brutal, until it was obvious that Boko Haram was in touch with Al Queada in Mali, that is when they took greater interest…trying to imply they created and are supporting them is extremly far fetched , close to ridiculous..you see this information and come to that conclusion I see far differant…based on your Venezuela analysis, I really dont trust your judgement

    You really have to be kiddking me giving me that spial about what Chavez did for the people…in truth, he gave them pennies and then let the whole Venezuelan infrastructure colapse…you call food ration lines good? This is an oil rich nation…you call massive electrical blackouts good?..The country is tanking on false idelology statements you have bought into…you need to reseach it much better than that to make the paint brush smear you just did…let alone being in denial of how that hot air sob aided and abetted Farc , interfering in Colombias affairs against their will..Colombia did invite the USA to hhelp them fight Farc, what do you expect after Equador under Correa and Chavez are helping Farc

    ” If on the hand, the attack is to be carried out by a suicide bomber, the person to carry it out would have been severely drugged with CIA manufactured LSD to disorientation. In his state of mind he would have no clue as to what he is programmed to do having been turned into a veritable human robot.”

    cmon, Sami, the same ridiculous report Bulanik brought in, I can rip it apart and here is one of the most ignorant statements of all by it…it is the hight of hilarity to think you would send someone out on a suicide mission on lsd …someone wrote this up not knowing the affect of lsd, created a fantacy situation,like most of that report..he probably heard of the drug given to child sholders to be able to kill …lsd has nothing like this going on..if anything you would be hyper sensitive to anyone trying to manipulate you..and willingly commit suicide on lsd? you might think you could fly off a building, but suicide on lsd? please

    Wiki leaks is bogus jive brought to you by an American hater and got his information by a psychologicly disturbed Wo-manning…you really are scraping the bottom of the barral to buy into this stuff

    There is nothing you have brought in that has enough truth to implicate the USA is creating these terrorist organisations or supporting them , outside of weapons being cyponed off the huge nation changing going on in North Africa that the USA is desperatly and blunderingly trying to enter…I never said the cia was smart …they have made some really bad mistakes…there are some really bad desicians being made at the top sometimes…but , what you and people thinking like you are implying is really not very well thought out, impuslivly jumped on, any bs report that comes down the pike, you are ready to beleive in…

    I absolutly cant sympathise or fall for just any bs coming down the pike trying to implicate the USA government with false information, half truths and lies

    very interesting how you will bend over backwards to beleive any of this , but are extremly unwilling to look at the truth about Chavez , or condemn the obvious incursions into Africa by Al Quaeda and recognise the reality of what is going on

    Like


  354. taleoflions,

    That you cannot fathom another country invading the US for “humanitarian” reasons like finding kidnapped American children, or squashing an armed insurrection in Nevada says so very much.

    You can be sure that no other country would invade the US for “humanitarian” purposes. In fact, no other country would invade the US. But unaffiliated Islamic terrorists would.

    Armed insurrection in Nevada? Wow. You are amusing.

    Like


  355. @sb32199

    If Islam has pulled in 49 percent of Nigerians, then all is lost. And soon, to settle the issue, there will be a genocide that rivals Rwanda. Muslims will slaughter Christians and Nigeria will suffer horribly as it’s dragged backwards through several centuries.

    Firstly, Nigeria has had Muslims since before the region was called Nigeria, almost 500 years before Columbus set sail for the West Indies. To the contrary, it is the Christians who are the newer converts, and the spread of Christianity in Africa went hand in hand with Imperialism and apartheid.

    Secondly, religion is a vessel for political consciousness. Whether that consciousness is of the Left or the Right has naught to do with the faith itself.

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  356. taleoflins…the USA is damed if it does or damed if it doesnt…they had been waiting to come in for the president of Nigeria to invite them…they are not invading..your analogy is false..after some American shooting or disastor, other countries have offered their help

    if you believe this phony wiki leaks bs, then i could see how strange analogies come up in your mind

    you know, people ought to know that in many cia operations they overthrew govenments there were other players involved also,like Kohmeini in Iran , overthrowing the Prime Minister…or that, countries that elected presidents were overthrown, in the hight of the cold war, they were aligning with Castro..like Allende of Chile , who I saw in a Fidel promo video making a speech saying just that…there is a big complex story out there if you really want to do the real research to find out..my gosh we all know the cia story…why dont you find out the rest?

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  357. You can be sure that no other country would invade the US for “humanitarian” purposes. In fact, no other country would invade the US.

    Either you are an awful abstract thinker, or you’re conceding that the US is indeed invading Nigeria.

    Armed insurrection in Nevada? Wow. You are amusing.

    You’re right. A foreign country supplying and training Bundy’s rebellion and the various other Far-Right Domestic terrorist groups would be a better analogy seeing as that’s how Al Qaeda and other Far-Right Islamic terror groups came to be, but you strike me as a Bundy sympathizer.

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  358. taleoflions,

    I’m aware of the timeline regarding the spread of Islam through Africa. For a long time, most Africans were animists. Some became Muslims, and some became Christians.

    With half the population in the grip of Islam, there will be a cataclysm. The tipping point at which final and total control can be taken has been reached, which means the massive assault on millions of hapless Nigerians is coming closer.

    You seem to be an apologist for the religious/political/military ideology of Islam, an ideology that destroys freedom and terminates independent thinking.

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  359. @BR;
    I am sorry for you, but facts are facts. I know it must be hard to hold on ones childhood dreams but the world is the way it is: Boko Haram is connected to CIA operations in Africa. Boko Haram was protected by US government. It is what it is. Sorry.

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  360. taleoflions:

    Either you are an awful abstract thinker, or you’re conceding that the US is indeed invading Nigeria.

    I believe that any US forces recently sent to Nigeria are there at Nigeria’s request, which means there’s no invasion underway. However, if it were my decision, I wouldn’t send US military support to Nigeria.

    Due to oil sales, the Nigerian government has plenty of money. If it needs mercenaries to fight Boko Haram, it can pay for them without breaking a sweat.

    Meanwhile, the government of Nigeria has all the motivation it needs to remain in power.

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  361. taleoflins…the USA is damed if it does or damed if it doesnt…

    You’re absolutely correct. #BringBackOurGirls is a progressive movement that is on one hand supported by people who believe that America is, or should be, the policeman of the world, and POCs with a shallow understanding of identity politics. That being said, meeting dissent in the face of any decision is what healthy democracies have to deal with.

    they had been waiting to come in for the president of Nigeria to invite them…they are not invading..your analogy is false..after some American shooting or disastor, other countries have offered their help

    And if American forces come only when asked and leave when asked, I will be pleasantly surprised and I’ll remember that you said it first. If not, and we see the Army defend the oil rigs in southern Nigeria from the people, Christian people, whose land and water is being polluted by said oil rigs and have become understandably irate with the companies that are destroying their farms, fisheries, and livelihood, while paying those Nigerians working for them a pitiful salary, I’ll call myself Nostradamus.

    “America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests” — Kissinger

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  362. @sb32199

    With half the population in the grip of Islam, there will be a cataclysm. The tipping point at which final and total control can be taken has been reached, which means the massive assault on millions of hapless Nigerians is coming closer.

    Former European colonies were never stable. They were created to be unstable by placing nations with rivalries thousands of years in the making within the same borders and rendering them stateless. What has happened in Sudan will happen in Nigeria as a part of the painful, though necessary recovery from imperialism. Nation building is a pretty phrase for an ugly process. See Kurdistan.

    You seem to be an apologist for the religious/political/military ideology of Islam, an ideology that destroys freedom and terminates independent thinking.

    I abhor what Boko Haram stands for, but what they stand for has little to do with Islam itself. Again, see Kurdistan. I do, however, believe they have the right to use political violence, and that Nigeria has the right to direct violence against them in retaliation. Of course, the philosophy gets a little twisted at that point since all Rights are claimed, defended, and lost by violence itself. I simply believe that Nigeria’s sovereignty must be respected by Americans, Conservatives and Progressives both.

    I believe that any US forces recently sent to Nigeria are there at Nigeria’s request, which means there’s no invasion underway. However, if it were my decision, I wouldn’t send US military support to Nigeria.

    Due to oil sales, the Nigerian government has plenty of money. If it needs mercenaries to fight Boko Haram, it can pay for them without breaking a sweat.

    Meanwhile, the government of Nigeria has all the motivation it needs to remain in power.

    Then your arguing with me has nothing to do with the crux of my argument, and everything to do with your personal Crusade against Islam, and I don’t care to be strung along. Kindly talk to someone else.

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  363. taleoflions,

    Nigeria is heading for a long-running downward spiral, all of it a function of the destructive force of Islam. When the Islamic takeover is complete, the Islamic government may continue selling oil, however, Islamic governments are notoriously inept at maintaining environmental standards, so it’s not likely the current oil-related environmental issues in Nigeria will improve after the Islamic takeover.

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  364. @ Abagond

    Do you have a map of Africa that shows what regions/countries have what resources/riches?

    So far, I have found the following: http://silentcrownews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Africas-Natural-Resources1.jpg

    John Kerry says that Africa’s natural resources make it the US’s “natural partner.”

    The article says:

    “..According to a document published by AFRICOM during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing with General David M. Rodriquez on March 6th 2014, confirmed Washington’s strategy concerning Africa:

    Africa is increasingly important for our European allies, who are directly affected by the rising economic and political influence of some African countries, as well as the symptoms of instability emanating from other countries. Many European Allies view Africa as the source of their greatest external security threats, including terrorism, illegal immigration, human smuggling and trafficking, and drugs and arms trafficking. Our support to allies in addressing mutual security challenges in Africa may influence their willingness and ability to help shoulder the burden in future conflicts in other areas in the world. The African continents energy and strategic mineral reserves are also of growing significance to China, India, and other countries in the broader Indian Ocean basin. Africa’s increasing importance to allies and emerging powers, including China, India and Brazil, provides opportunities to reinforce U.S. security objectives in other regions through our engagement on the continent. While most African countries prefer to partner with the United States across all sectors, many will partner with any country that can increase their security and prosperity. We should be deliberate in determining where we leave gaps others may fill.

    Africa is Washington’s next colonial project. Expanding AFRICOM and more drone bases will be the norm…”

    http://indianexpress.com/article/world/middle-east-africa/us-is-the-africas-natural-partner-says-john-kerry/

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  365. When the Islamic takeover is complete, the Islamic government may continue selling oil, however, Islamic governments are notoriously inept at maintaining environmental standards

    Oil from the BP spill continues to wash up on the Gulf Coast and has left the fisheries in ruin. Cortexit, the chemical used to clean the spill, had only caused the oil to sink and become over 50 times more toxic than it was as pure oil. Those who volunteered to clean the spill were not only denied protective clothing, they were expressly forbidden to bring their own. Today many have died from exposure. Poor environmental standards aren’t Islamic, they’re the consequence of a neo-liberal world run by neoclassical economists.

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  366. taleoflions:

    Those who volunteered to clean the spill were not only denied protective clothing, they were expressly forbidden to bring their own. Today many have died from exposure.

    Total fiction. What country do you live in?

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  367. taleoflions

    From the EPA:

    These results confirm that the dispersant used in response to the oil spill in the gulf, Corexit 9500A, when mixed with oil, is generally no more or less toxic than mixtures with the other available alternatives. The results also indicate that dispersant-oil mixtures are generally no more toxic to the aquatic test species than oil alone.

    Since the well was capped on July 15, there has been virtually no dispersant use–only 200 gallons total applied on July 19. Additionally, dispersant use has dropped 72 percent from peak volumes following the joint EPA-U.S. Coast Guard directive to BP on May 26, 2010.

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  368. @Linda
    Actually no; Linda by and large the natives and the settlers got along. That doesn’t mean they were friends or that they were treated right. By got along it simply means they weren’t out there killing each other all the time. It wouldn’t be too amazing for them to get screwed over in some way especially post the civilization.
    Was there war and conflict; of course……but to describe that as being all there was over the course of centuries.
    And of course; anytime gold or some other resource was valued that was found on Indian land, well violence, death and at the very least getting kicked off their land inevitably happened.
    Or to put it another way; with all the wars and fighting going on would you have said all the non-indian settlers were constantly in a state of war or fighting? Or would you have said the vast majority of them were not engaged in conflict?
    Basically; once you take out disease, starvation, intern-national wars between the native nations…..the amount that can be strictly applied to the settlers of the states becomes somewhat dropped down.

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  369. @sb32199

    I accuse the government of corruption in the matters of environmental standards, and you give me a quote from a Federal institution? For shame.

    (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0045574)

    (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0269749112004344)

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  370. Sami, Im truly sorry for you and people who think like you…who seem to be so desperate to push your agenda that you bring in such weak information it can easily be ridiculed…with positions so weak , they resort to sensationalist depictions of the cia and nato engineering the Syria conflict for sex slaves for nato….to the cia sending out suicide bombers on a mission giving them LSD …to take a complex situation and depict as the cia us inventing jihadist groups , arming them and supporting them …they arnt even coming close to what Chavez did , arming and sending money to Farc…people like you cant even understand that the legacy of Chavez is tanking Venezuela as we speak …you just cant face reality..you all buy into movie script fantacy depictions…

    As your so called proof , two people googled up and seperatly submitted the same absolutly weak , flawed , Wikileaks informed article ….the one with the painfully naive version of LSD laced suicide bombers..I mean I could rip that article apart paragraph by paragraph , but , it would be a waste of time…its not going to change you, you are stuck in your agenda like a stick in the mud , pulling the discusion down into flawed fantacy articles, and absolutly misinformed comments on Venezuela ,or someone bringing their absolutly sensationalist take on sex slaves as the engineered reason for the Syria conflict

    And this is you alls proof ? Or that Hillary Clinton referance ? What a bogus speculation ..out of that you deduct the cia invents and supports Boko Haram? My gosh, not putting them on an Al Quaeda watch list is a long long way from inventing them and supporting them…oh but then your proof to support that is a seriously flawed article…and you are sorry for me?

    Dont be…this kind of fantacy detraction from the truth is exactly why I support Obama drone bombing the Hades out if Al Quaeda and the Talaban…these sobs think they can terrorise the world , with no cinsequences , its a pleasure to see them be terrorised…and exactly because of current events unfolding as they are , with the stench if various world wide fundimentalist bombings choking the air we breath, Im all in favor of my government listening in ,…its pathetic the banshee screaming about this when anyone with the right equipment can monitor our cel phones, and I get hackers constantly trying to infiltrate my computor to rip me off, as well as China has a room full of military strictly for the purpose of hacking into our military cômputors and Israel is caught spying on us etc

    Sami, its exactly people like you bringing up USA cold war cia data ad nausea , over and over with absolutly no referance to what was going on with the other side , that leaves me no choice but to correct that serious flawed aspect of your depictions of cold war history…What I can tell you , and all the other one sided half truth detractors of USA policy , based on mostly cold war referances , is that I hold all sides responsible for the deaths and destruction, including the two conflicting sides in any perspective countries involved in these conflicts who eagarly invited the help from the large oposing super powers. Unless you tell the whole story , the narratives , especialy trying to implicate America into today with sensationalist cia implications out of a movie, is utter bs

    Taleoflions , and what if we never see Delta Force surrounding the Níger Delta oil feilds ? Are you going to think of me then ? Ill sure remember you , and plenty of others …Let me tell you , I live in Brazil, and they have huge oil reserves and enormous fresh water sources,and , right now , huge unrest in the streets and I hear on a constant leval ,from the red flaggers and uber nationalists how the cia and USA is going to invade the Amazon….and it just isnt going to happen, its bogus crud, of the highest hypocriticle order, with the inability to just look in the mirror at the truth

    I hear this so much , I can smell this faulty logic from a distance…like how it is aplied right on here….its the education every American should have so they know the truth and can get a backbone to deal with the lies and not fall into Fox news ignorance, because they are worse than anyone….and not be suckered by Noam Chomsky agended lies, also…I am looking for truth , not agended bs , and if anyone thinks these links are truth , or notions of cia engineered Syria conflict for sex slaves, LSD cia sponcered suicide bombings , or they invented or support Boko Haram , they either are naive , or have an agenda, it sure isnt the truth

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  371. B. R.

    As I said, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if US armed forces don’t get themselves lost in Southern Nigeria.

    Let me tell you , I live in Brazil, and they have huge oil reserves and enormous fresh water sources,and , right now , huge unrest in the streets and I hear on a constant leval ,from the red flaggers and uber nationalists how the cia and USA is going to invade the Amazon

    Why wouldn’t they be nervous? Given the dwindling world energy supply and USA’s recent proclivity towards resource wars, you’d have to be insane not to be a little nervous if you’re residing in a resource rich nation. Especially in light of the Resource Curse that has destabilized many emerging economies before they could mature.

    I know you’re old enough to remember the constant threat of death by nuclear fire, but please try to consider the history from the prospective of your fellow Brazilians. There are people alive in Brazil who remember the 1964 coup d’ètat. An American assisted coup that overthrew a democratically elected president. Marxist or not, that is an affront to the Brazilian people’s self-determination and it’s an affront to the Liberal ethics upon which all democracies are founded. If you believe that America has the right to overthrow a democracy of any kind, than we are at an end.

    it sure isnt the truth

    Than what is the truth, friend? Say what you will of Chomsky, Snowden, and Wikileaks, they either let the intelligence documents speak for themselves, or in Chomsky’s case, is thinking from a philosophical framework that has been maturing over decades. You have given us paragraphs of loud and furious apologetics for American Imperialism, and the MSM, whom no one serious can take seriously anymore. There is no force for good in the world, only force. That’s the truth, Political Realism, and America is not an exception to that truth. So forgive me for sharing in your countrymen’s skepticism.

    All this talk of war, and violence, and freedom, and truth; I think I’ll play Assassin’s Creed today. . . .

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  372. First , Im an American living in Brazil, the reason there was an unfair coup in Brazil is because there were admitted Marxists actualy training in China, the Soviet Union and Cuba to impliment a Marxist revolution , and they were inspired by sob Che to create a thousand Viet Nams in South America , as well as I saw an interview with an ex KGB officer stating in Brazil , there were spies in the military , the Universities , the media , and in the congesses…

    There was a lot of social chãos on the ground the time João Goulart took over when the prévious president left office..Goulart was not a Marxist , but got caught between a rock and a hard place , when the military, plagued with unrest in their own ranks , decided there was going to be no Marxist revolution in Brazil…and there were people planning this armed revolution..

    Not only that , it was a repeat of the early thirties, where there was another attemted communist revolution, with foreign communist spies and Getulio Vargas surpressed it , with torture also and staged a military coup

    This dynamic plagued Brazil long before the USA supported the military dictatorship in 64

    You should know , most Brazilians hated the military dictatorship , but they also absolutly didnt join in on the armed Marxist revolution, like the planners were hoping

    Since they were studying in China and the Soviet Union, to make bombs, how to kill and kidnap , it should be very relevant to note multi millions were being eliminated in China and the Soviet Union , exactly because of this ideology
    that the militaries in South America decided to stand up against….and yes , it was brutal , but , three thousand were killed in Chili , thirty thousand in Argentina……less than one thousand people were killed in Brazil, now how does that stack up to sixty thousand executed in Cuba? And the multi millions in various Marxist countries just plain eliminated ?

    And I can say , I am very happy the Marxist armed revolution was sqashed in Brazil….maybe you need to really study what happened…also , Operation Condor , was a South American military co op, the USA only offered support from afar

    As well as if you have some beef about me seeing through disgustingly ridiculous reports , like the cia engineered the Syria conflict for sex slaves for nato, and they are sending people on suicide missions on LSD you need to quit listening to crappy rock , get your head out of your rear end and get for real

    You better check yourself before you patronise me about Brazil history..you sound clichê ignorant about it , like Sami about Venezuela, reading off their Bolivian revolutionary propoganda page , Im following intensly what is happening there from South America on day to day reports

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  373. @sb32199

    “Obviously the problems in Africa have nothing to do with conquest and oppression”

    That’s your opinion, which isn’t accurate. Countries in Africa were created by Europeans in disregard of the preexisting nations, and are still controlled and influenced by Europeans. For example the French still maintain military operations in Mali and Cote d’ivoire to protect French business interests (and the global economy) and US is involved in Nigeria through its CIA-financed Boko Harem.

    “Meanwhile, why do you obsess over the manner in which valuable knowledge made its way around the world hundreds of years ago ”

    I don’t obsess over anything, just setting the record straight. If you claim that Muslims are wrong for conquering and stealing knowledge from around the world, then recognise Christians for doing the same (to a much greater extent).

    “Isn’t it far more important to become part of the educated class today rather than waste time trying to pin the blame for some long-ago act on people who’ve been dead for centuries? ”

    I think it’s far more important to be economically independent, which most Africans are, but their trade is still bogged down by European interests, which is the source of the problems. The current countries in Africa are a product of imaginary lines drawn by Europeans only 100 years ago, not “hundreds of years ago” and most countries have only been “independent” for less than 50 yrs, but are still subject to European interference. This is not ancient history, and the colonists have never left, as their troops, banks and other corporations are still there.

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  374. And your chumpy speil about they ought to be nervous about the USA if they have recources , is exactly the bs sensationalised America is the great big boogey man ridiculousness people speal out exactly to not look at their own problems or to hide power moves…Ive seen people run for local offices down here using the America is the boogey man

    America is not going to invade the Amazon for oil or water…that is pure crap put out with viscious lies always on top

    There was a hoax put out by anti Americanists down here that said there was actualy an American school text book circulating thar tha Amazon basin was described as belonging to the world with America having the right to take it if they had to…it was debunked as a myth yet for months after wards , the American haters just ran with like it was true

    So many lies

    Chomsky? Please, for hades sake spare me , Ive caught the guy in two blatent ridiculous statements…I just dont trust him anymore…you want your narratives wallowing in lies ?

    Sorry, people are going to have to come up with some real truth if they expect me to come prancing on board to just condemn America in this paticular case. …..there is no real valid evidence brought in here actualy proving it , only speculation and out right bs

    I just heard this in the news on Brazilian Tv today , Boko Haram just killed 28 people , 11 people were killed in Somali Parlament , one solder was killed in Darfor in a conflict…are people really going to blame the cia for these acts?

    This was just in todays news….we cant have the real discussion on here..we get lost in America is the boogey man in all this….

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  375. Rews77 , you just messed your narrative up asuming the usa is sponcering Boko Haram..there is no facts on the table about this…just speculation..the report brought in here two times is painfully ignorant

    See I dont blame Islam , unlike Sb, I blame violent extremist religious fundamentalism , and I hate it in all its forms…and America has top flight examples of this..That is really the only true way to get what is happening…this is Islams version of David Koerich , Tim Mccvei , the Olympic bomber, killers of doctors who do abortions and KKK violent actions in the name of god…then , it all makes se cê

    And the cia and the American government dont really understand religious fundimentalism , probably because its ingrained in a part of America through Christian fundimentalism…they only equate it with Al Quaeda, and what touches them , then they focus on it

    But , that is the only way to really get what is happening reguarding this

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  376. @B.R.

    I see you’re an American interference apologist, but there is ample evidence of CIA involvement in everywhere, including Nigeria. For example, see this video of Hilary Clinton admitting that US once funded its enemies: http://youtu.be/Dqn0bm4E9yw . See also the CIA’s Red Cell report, which admits to funding overseas terrorism.

    Wikileaks released several classified documents stating that Boko Haram’s leader was in CIA custody, which means that CIA is well involved there too. There are also links between Khalifa Haftar, a former CIA payee, and Boko Haram. I can go on.

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  377. resw77 says:

    That’s your opinion, which isn’t accurate. Countries in Africa were created by Europeans in disregard of the preexisting nations, and are still controlled and influenced by Europeans.

    For example the French still maintain military operations in Mali and Cote d’ivoire to protect French business interests (and the global economy) and US is involved in Nigeria through its CIA-financed Boko Harem.

    The only point your rather amusing claims make is this: Africans are such a hapless lot of nincompoops that manipulating them any which-way is not only possible, but a favorite sport of condescending nations.

    The other nations of the world are happy to purchase oil from African nations. Other nations are willing and happy to purchase any useful goods from African nations. But there aren’t many. Oil. Some rare-earth metals. Exotic wood.

    We’re back in the same old place. Africa is centuries behind the leading nations of the world, and most of the continent is still ruled by thuggish dictators or corrupt regimes.

    Democracy and capitalism lead to lots of trade and rapid increases in prosperity.

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  378. resw77, thank you for the Hilary Clinton clip.

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  379. @BR:
    Sex slaves? What the heck you are talking about, dude? Is this once again “your thing” or something?

    I have not mentionet sex nor slaves.

    Just tell me why on earth Boko Haram has CIA connections and why US state department wanted keep them and kept them out from the terrorist organisations lists for years?

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  380. Peer reviewed science is factually worthless? This is what’s wrong with America; generations of scientific illiteracy.

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  381. @B. R.

    Once again, no documentation, and nothing of substance.

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  382. resw77…yawn, please bore me all you want…and let me break down this clip for you..

    her saying funding means they threw money at them and stingers and trained them how to use them…that absolutly doesnt mean they invented them…they were already invented..

    I keep saying,look at the picture of Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin..does that mean anything to you ? It tells me a whole lot in this world, it means that you sometimes have to partner with someone who is your worst enemy , to deal with an even worse enemy, and afterwards, they will be taking off their shoe at the UN and saying they will bury you…these are very simlple law of the jungle rules I understand, why cant you? Havent you ever had a coleague close to you that then stabbed you in the back?

    and so you are going to beleive a wiki leaks inspired article that has more holes than swizz cheese? Any thing that tries to link them together is speculation weaved around some fundimental facts that could be interpreted many differant ways…I mean seriously , please give me your take on the cia sending out suicide bombers on LSD..id really like to hear your take on that…and with such sensationalist fantacy writing they are putting into that, you dont think at all that that is in the other speculations about what happened? And you call me an apologist? I call you a sucker, just belieiving any old speculation that comes down the pike

    In a docu down here, they got the red flaggers describing the military coup and their implication of the USA , and they said the USA had sent 3000 peace corp members down to Brazil and they were ready to fight for the Military dictatorship…now tell me something, do you belive that? Do you beleive every incriminating thing that comes down the pike about the USA,can you tell the differance from inventing and engineering something and funding something? One means they threw money at them…does the USA get down in the dirt and play both ends against the middle? yes, do they play dirty? yes, …did they anounce two members of Boko Haram were terrorists but didnt incriminate the whole group at first, because maybe they didnt want to look to other Muslims in Nigeria that they arnt just cracking down on Islam? Is president Jonathon facing this same dilema now…has quite a few people around him who practice Islam , and maybe it was a delicate situation for a minute and now its more direct ? Is it possible the cia is trying to find out what is up also? Do you have absolute certainty what the cia is doing and what their strategy is? I have seen no absolute truth that proves they invented, engineered and are directing Boko Haram….isnt it possible Al Queada came into Mali and did make contact? Arm them and pay them ? That is no possibility at all, that they are bolstering them? Is it ok for Al Quaeda to come from outside and take over and start choping hands off and taking control but its wrong for France to come in to help?

    Please bore me with your answers…and, I really want your take on the notion (Sami, I said someone brought this one in not you, but someone who brought in the same article you did…im answering this twice) about the Syria conflict being engineered by the cia and Nato to create sex slaves for Nato…and rews77, if you are so willing to believe that , and beleive in cia outposts giving suicide bombers LSD, what is so hard to believe that weapons were cyphoned off the flood of arms to Lybia to fight Kadafi after he started mowing down his citizens, and got into the hands of Jihad groups? That they did the slight of hand to get these weapons? Or that Al Quaeda in Mali made contact with Boko Haram and also the Kenya mall massacre people and they are co ordinating each other? I mean cia sending out suicide bombers on LSD is pretty sensational, are these other things too boring to consider? That in the enormous chaos that happened in North Africa and going to Syria, that many things didnt go exactly as planned? After all, do you think Hilary set up the ambasador to get killed? Or did they just not go in prepared? Left their flank open? that has happened many times…

    What about the consequences of not making some kind of presence to the opisition against both Kadafi and Assad? How much ground would they have lost to Jihad groups there? Didnt they have to wade in to show the non Jihadist people of the opisition that they could help also? At the risk of getting burned? They sure left their flank open on those ones…but, my reasons for wishing they just didnt get involved was because I knew Id hear this crap coming out…now isnt that a dumb reason to wish they wouldnt have gotten involved? That isnt a real on the ground reason…tell me, Rews77, do you really have an idea what is going on on the ground at all? Does anyone on here really think they know what is happening beyond speculation?

    bore me please

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  383. I say the same to you, talesoflions…a bogus article inspired by wiki leaks with wild implications of cia sending out suicide bombers on lsd is your proof and documentation? What is going on here? where an article I call bs is just accepted as proof and justifiable documentation?

    Im reading everything you all are linking, there is no actual proof at all, its a lot of speculation..made by an organisation, wikileaks with a vendetta against the usa

    Snowdon? I dont trust that guy as far as I can throw a bus…and he did all the syping under Bush, but under Obama…he suddenly gets a concience? Or is he just another Obama hater ? He smells funny to me

    you know , Talesoflons, I have lived in Brazil more than 28 years, and, from the red flaggers, and they arnt all Brazil, I have heard every conspiricy theory coming down the pike…ridiculous acuasations…cia boogey man implications up the wazoo…its part of my education…after hearing so much ridiculous unfounded lies and half truths, Ive learned to smell that turd a long ways away…Im no apologist…Ive just learned not to be a sucker at every lose cannon information coming down the pike about America…I know exactly the dirt they did in Brazil..do you have a handle on what the other side did? I mean seriously, do you have any idea what was happening on the other side? Or now with the extremist fundimental violent Islamic groups? My gosh, its absolute common knowledge they have been infiltrating various countries in Africa for a long time…Bin Laden was in Africa before Afghanistan…yet , there is this notion that if people in Africa stand up to this crud, and ask for help from outside…its horrible colonialism raising its head ( wow, its not like Arabs and Islam havent had its own history , benign and violent in Africa..I mean what is going on here with logic)

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  384. @sb

    “Other nations are willing and happy to purchase any useful goods from African nations. But there aren’t many. Oil. Some rare-earth metals. Exotic wood.”

    Thanks for showing us your ignorance. Africa produces and exports many resources, notably cocoa, coffee, platinum, palladium, gold, diamonds, cobalt, etc., all of which Europeans are dependent, especially cocoa, diamonds, platinum and palladium.

    “Africa is centuries behind the leading nations of the world, and most of the continent is still ruled by thuggish dictators or corrupt regimes.”

    Most African countries have everything your country has, and in fact have democratically elected leaders, and no country is as corrupt as the US, where corporations buy politicians through Super PACs, local gov’ts scrub election rolls, illegally disqualify votes, etc.

    “Democracy and capitalism lead to lots of trade and rapid increases in prosperity.”

    Africa’s economy is in fact growing at a much faster pace than any other region in the world, and Nigeria, for example, has seen faster growth of wealth and prosperity than the US has ever seen. Those are just the facts.

    Like


  385. @ B.R.

    “yawn, please bore me all you want…and let me break down this clip for you..”

    I don’t need you to break it down. Clinton’s comments were quite forthright. CIA has in fact funded many people in various areas in the world to both enact uprisings and promote regime change. Former CIA agents, like Khalifa Haftar, who incidentally is part of the new Libyan regime, is a prime example.

    Like


  386. taleoflions,

    The articles you posted were essentially opinion pieces filled with a lot of suppositions and maybes.

    Peer reviewed? Please. One scientist saying he approves of the work of his buddy scientist isn’t enough to make the work incontestably valid

    Like


  387. resw77,

    Wow. How awful that I didn’t list the handful of commodities that come from Africa.

    News flash, no nation that imports any of those African commodities is “dependent” on them. Palladium is necessary for the current design of catalytic converters on cars. If there were no palladium available, a substitute would be found. If the substitute isn’t as good, standards for catalytic converters would be adjusted to the replacement component.

    Like


  388. @sb32199

    “How awful that I didn’t list the handful of commodities that come from Africa.”

    IYou claimed that other countries would purchase African goods “But there aren’t many, ” which is blatantly inaccurate and shows your ignorance.

    “News flash, no nation that imports any of those African commodities is “dependent” on them. ”

    Again showing your ignorance. Europe’s top exports, machinery, vehicles, etc. are composed in part by materials sourced in Africa and Asia.

    “Palladium is necessary for the current design of catalytic converters on cars. If there were no palladium available, a substitute would be found. ”

    FYI platinum is primarily used in catalytic converters, palladium to a somewhat lesser extent. The world is dependent on them b/c they work the best, unless you know of another metal or method that works better, and if these metals were withheld, emissions would increase dramatically. Sure you could opine as to what the world would be like without them, but that’s just fantasy.

    Like


  389. @ sami

    The sex slaves reference to an earlier mention I made to human trafficking in created conflicts, particularly trafficking through Turkey, as highlighted recently by commentators in that country. Mentioning this seems to have deeply and powerfully shocked commentors who remain in innocence about the existence and extent of modern-day slavery, but also the slavery business in military-controlled zones.

    Also, in case you wondered about the reference to LSD, I think it’s worthwhile pondering certain facts about that drug, and references in the original Wiki-leaks article that’s been linked a couple of times.
    The article said that a particular bomb attack was:
    “…carried out by a suicide bomber, the person to carry{ing} it out would have been severely drugged with CIA manufactured LSD to disorientation. In his state of mind he would have no clue as to what he is programmed to do having been turned into a veritable human robot.”

    Disorientation is not “blacking out”. I think that’s pretty obvious to many people. I think anyone who has been told they are the same thing on this thread may have been misled into that these 2 different states were the same thing! Anyone who believes that may have succumbed to a repeated opinion, rather than exposure to scientific findings.

    Therefore, it was in the interests of clear information that I made this comment earlier about the nature of LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide):
    “…It is a hallucinogenic drug. As such, it runs the risk of the user taking dangerous actions without awareness to the risks.
    The Wiki-leaks report does NOT say though, that it the suicide bomber was prone to forgetfulness. Or blackouts.
    It says “disorientation”.
    Disoriented individuals have impaired judgment, at the very least.

    What’s more, it’s well-known that the CIA have been using LSD for more than 60 years because they wanted to harness the use of drug technology.
    Therefore “CIA manufactured LSD” does not constitute a fantasy, or lie.

    In fact, the US government secretly tested the effects of the LSD on 100s of unsuspecting American civilians and military personnel for decades.
    Here is the research: http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/23/the-legacy-of-the-cias-secret-lsd-experiments-on-america/
    It would not be first time the US has used its population in this way.
    The Tuskegee Experiment comes to mind, for instance, where the black male population was deliberately dosed with VD.

    Additionally, the CIA and the US Departmetn of Defense research both found that LSD made susceptible users of the drug highly suggestible.
    And, that’s been known by both agencies since the 1960s:
    That dislosure is here: http://www.lycaeum.org/research/researchpdfs/1489.pdf

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  390. Sb31299

    That is funny considering that you not only quoted an opinion piece on the very blog but knew it was one and tried to pass it off as proof or evidence. Of the links that taleoflions presented the very first one actually contains other sources ( I have yet to view the other) but I am curious on which one is suppose to be the opinion piece? And if you know the difference between opinion and gathered facts.

    Like


  391. B.R.

    I actually had a nice conversation with an older couple today that believes similarly to what others have presented in regards to government underhanded deeds. It is not an uncommon topic or belief.

    Like


  392. ^^That last link leads to an article concerning a cut-rate 1950s hospital study performed on “subnormals”, as the article itself refers to depressive, neurotic and schizophrenic patients, who were alternately given either LSD or a placebo of sterile water, and then who are told an hour or so later to stand still, as some sort of test on “body sway” suggestibility.

    As to the article itself, I looked it over pretty thoroughly but perhaps not thoroughly enough as I saw no mention whatsoever of either the CIA or the Department of Defense.

    Like


  393. @ Sharina

    Anything that supports sb’s opinion is a fact. Anything that goes against it is an opinion. That is why he is so painfully ignorant.

    Like


  394. @ Bulanik

    Point of fact: the Tuskegee Experiment did not directly infect anyone with syphilis. They found Black men for the study who already had the disease. What makes it so horrifying is that when a cure was found in the 1940s, they prevented them from receiving it so they could study the course of the disease, letting them go mad and die. They lied to the men so that they thought they were receiving proper care.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/the-tuskegee-experiment/

    Like


  395. ^^ Well, I’ve read the links posted up-thread and none of them contains copies of CIA documents or any other believable evidence for a US-sponsored plot.

    Sometimes people do resort to extreme violence to reach their political ends. It’s hard to believe because (hopefully) none of us are capable of this kind of behaviour but it does happen.

    Personally, I think this thread is getting into crazy town.

    Like


  396. Absolutly , Pay it Forward and Wordynerdygirl

    Its fact the cia tested people on LSD ..but anyone who knows anything about the drug would scoff at the notion it would even be thought of as a technique the cia would use to send someone out , giving them LSD to carry out a suicide mission….the thought is ridiculous and its obvious the person writing that is writing with no real knowledge of the drug..forget blackouts…just the idea its being used as a drug to enhance a suicide mission proves this person is writing fiction, and it absolutly reflects the tone of the whole article

    I know all about sex slavery around the world and that is way differant than acusing the cia and nato from engineering the Syria conflict for the purpose of sex slaves for Nato….I mean a riciculously long way…this is the over all logic being used here

    What kind of logic is going on here ?

    The speculation factor is enormous

    So Sharina, because you talked to a couple who beleives this , that gives it validity?

    It was common knowledge weapons were falling into Jihadist groups in these North African and Syrian conflicts.I read this various times in regular papers like the nytimes..that doesnt mean the cia is inventing, engineering and running them….that is a huge differance..and everyone tales about the cia overthrows , but dont mention the other players like Khomeini involved in the Iran coup…or they have no referance to what the other side was doing , the help they got from super powers….There were really people in Brazil who trained in China , Cuba and the Siviet Union to wage a Marxist armed revolution in Brazil….do people really think Brazil would have been better off with a succesful Marxist revolution?….

    I see this phony logic about the cia aplied all the time down here

    Its amazing the people who want to push the conspiracy theories about the cia in Nigéria and Africa , but cant talk about the extremist Islamic fundamentalist slaughters going on in various African countries, as we speak , as I mentioned above happening recently, and the blatent outside influence of Al Quaeda that has been coming into Africa , and their backing , for a long time

    I am so happy with the hard core on the ground non university education I have gotten from living in a country that was victom of the cold war and has people who are on steroids about what the usa and the cia did and are doing…the hypocracy and half truths and lies are so huge you really learn how to try to find out the truth in the middle of bs from all sides

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  397. I must say , I am perplexed…

    There are commentors on here that make enormous contributions to this blog, on point , extremly relevant, and then when it comes to American foreign policy, something just descends into strange logics

    Also , there are people who I normaly agree with on most subjects , but , then we bang heads on one or two subjects

    This blog life kills me sometimes

    Like


  398. That last link leads to an article concerning a cut-rate 1950s hospital study performed on “subnormals”, as the article itself refers to depressive, neurotic and schizophrenic patients, who were alternately given either LSD or a placebo of sterile water, and then who are told an hour or so later to stand still..

    And, why, with this reasearch, wouldn’t susceptible individuals be chosen for such missions?

    Like


  399. @ Abagond

    You are right, and I stand corrected.

    Why didn’t I think to use more examples?

    Like: giving hepatitis to mental patients in Connecticut?
    Or, squirting a pandemic flu virus up the noses of prisoners in Maryland, and injecting cancer cells into chronically ill people at a New York hospital?

    Not to mention the use of bacteria, in simulation of biological warfare, as employed by US Navy used aeroplanes for dispersal.

    And so on and on.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361275/Americas-shocking-secret-US-experimented-disabled-citizens-prison-inmates.html#ixzz32p4PfpWR

    http://www.democracynow.org/2005/7/13/how_the_u_s_government_exposed

    Like


  400. @ Bulanik

    Sorry to jump in but that article has nothing to do with the situation with B-H. The research you refer to was apparently conducted in the 1950s. I think it’s a massive stretch to assume that alleged research from 60 years ago provides a valid basis for assuming that B-H members are brainwashed CIA operatives.

    I’ve argued on another thread about the accepted academic definition of terrorism (there isn’t one!). But there is no doubt in my mind that the informal, unpredictable and destructive violence caused by groups such as B-H is a major and very real threat to Nigeria and its ability to maintain the rule of law.

    In short, I do not believe there is any evidence whatsoever that the CIA is connected with B-H, nor do I believe that to be the case.

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  401. One of the most chuckle-inducing factors about this particular thread, is that no matter what evidence is produced — videos, various articles from different countries and sources — ALL of it is trash-worthy, actually WORTHLESS if:
    1. that info is unknown or not accessed before, or,
    2. it doesn’t flatter patriotism, and
    3. conform to “believable” mainstream news

    Yet, when sources are requested for the counter-argument, there is nothing more than The Standard News on offer. And belief in that is seen as sobriety.
    Because we must always trust our governments.
    Our governments look after us, and we must never question anything.
    Questioning is just the product of off-the-ground University education..

    I also have to shake my head at the use of “conspiracy theory” to describe anything that counters jingoism, or the innocence of those indoctrinated by a Cold War outlook.

    And then, there is the back-tracking on the matter of LSD.
    All along it’s been asserted, proudly and loudly, plus talk of crap and such, that LSD could not have been employed by suicide bombers because “blackouts” don’t happen under LSD.
    Yet there was no mention of blackouts in the original article.
    Talk about making things up, twisting things around and putting words into the mouths of others to ram home a non-point.

    Now it’s “a fact” CIA tested LSD on people.
    Now forget blackouts…!

    After mentioning trafficking of sex slaves through Turkey — again sensationalistic rubbish, crap, unbelievable… is now, sure, everyone know about this kind of slavery.

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  402. @ Wordy

    In short, I do not believe there is any evidence whatsoever that the CIA is connected with B-H, nor do I believe that to be the case.

    But if you do not believe something absolutely and categorically, if you believe it going to “crazy” town — then your assumptions on uses and applications of drugs and/or suicide missions are going to absolutley and categorically unbelievable.

    Those comments were posted much earlier in the thread — which no one replied to — not lease the commenter it was directed to, BR, who did not believe LSD was used by the CIA, and, if it had been — then it was lies and fantasy because the effects of LSD was not the same as his own experience of it.

    When I resposted it, in a slightly different context — it’s unbelievable, and out of date, inappropriate, an extrapolation too far, etc.

    My own belief is that governments have long used drug technology.
    I have many reservations about what I am told by the mainstream news.
    I do not trust the workings of governments and, I take a dim view of the uses of military by our government: to my mind, the government and miltary are deeply involved in BUSINESS.
    It’s cynical, but I am afraid I’v watched these things too long to believe otherwise.

    Like


  403. @ Wordy

    As I posted above:

    John Kerry says that Africa’s natural resources make it the US’s “natural partner.”

    The article says:

    “..According to a document published by AFRICOM during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing with General David M. Rodriquez on March 6th 2014, confirmed Washington’s strategy concerning Africa:

    Africa is increasingly important for our European allies, who are directly affected by the rising economic and political influence of some African countries, as well as the symptoms of instability emanating from other countries. Many European Allies view Africa as the source of their greatest external security threats, including terrorism, illegal immigration, human smuggling and trafficking, and drugs and arms trafficking. Our support to allies in addressing mutual security challenges in Africa may influence their willingness and ability to help shoulder the burden in future conflicts in other areas in the world. The African continents energy and strategic mineral reserves are also of growing significance to China, India, and other countries in the broader Indian Ocean basin. Africa’s increasing importance to allies and emerging powers, including China, India and Brazil, provides opportunities to reinforce U.S. security objectives in other regions through our engagement on the continent. While most African countries prefer to partner with the United States across all sectors, many will partner with any country that can increase their security and prosperity. We should be deliberate in determining where we leave gaps others may fill.

    Africa is Washington’s next colonial project. Expanding AFRICOM and more drone bases will be the norm…”

    http://indianexpress.com/article/world/middle-east-africa/us-is-the-africas-natural-partner-says-john-k

    ***
    That sort of thing…

    Like


  404. Wordy, if that ^^ is what is stated publicly what information do you believe we are being shielded from?

    Like


  405. @ Bulanik

    I am not a conspiracy theorist. If I had to describe myself politically, I would say that I am a social democrat.

    I believe that the USA’s current institutional arrangements, while imperfect, will generally act to protect national interests. There is no national interest that (I think) the CIA would reasonably pursue by drugging and brainwashing people in Nigeria. I have a background in political science and this is my opinion based on that background.

    The people in B-H are acting in a destructive and horrifying way to pursue what they see as their OWN interests. That’s all there is to it. Not everything is a shady CIA coverup.

    Like


  406. @ Wordy,

    I am not a conspiracy theorist either.
    One is not automatically a conspiracy theorist if one does not trust GOVERNMENTS and politicians…

    Like


  407. (I’ve a comment to you in moddy, so ..)

    Like


  408. @ Wordy

    If you see BH as isolated phenomenon, a bunch of crazy fundamentalists acting out their own destructive interests, then that is your belief.
    You believe everything your governments tells you.

    I don’t and can’t.
    What I know of AFRICOM (US Defense Department’s full-spectrum combatant command, responsible for all US Defense operations, exercises, and security cooperation on the African continent), from history, and what I have gleaned from declassfied documents, open to the public domain, about CIA operations, makes me pause.

    ***
    As for as “mind control” using drugs, it’s unclear what the extent of government-backed experimentation was, because most of the evidence was destroyed in 1973. What survived was discovered in 1977.
    I believe the umbrella term for these exercises was: Project MKULTRA

    Anyone can look that up, though, so it’s a bit much that — somehow — my point is worthless, or suspect, a sign of “conspiracy theorising” because one link that I posted in relation to these experiments doesn’t mention US State Dept or CIA “whatsoever” on it…

    Like


  409. @ Bulanik

    i am not calling your opinions worthless but I do vehemently disagree with your views. It is unreasonable to hold to a theory without any substantial evidence to support it. The fact that certain documents give you pause does not mean that you can connect one piece of alleged information with an incident 60 years later on another continent.

    I don’t think from my brief comments that you can fairly assume that I ‘believe everything [my] government tells [me]’. In fact I don’t. I do, however, wait until evidence emerges before making accusations about the conduct of my government.

    I think we should agree to respectfully disagree.

    Like


  410. @ Sharina

    Probably the third. I tried to get a hold of BP emails, but alas. There’s also Dr. Riki Ott, and while I do take PhDs seriously, her take on the spill is in the Huffington. I mean, the freaking Huffington!

    sb32199, you have no idea how brutal peer reviewed science is. It’s not just scientists approving of one another’s work, but viciously turning their evidence and methodology inside out in search for even the smallest of flaws. There’s nothing buddy-buddy about it. Publishing before having ones content reviewed, or withholding critical information can have you black listed as a fraud for life. (Unless you work for the Fed, apparently.)The scientific method is serious business, and if you payed attention in high school, you’d know that.

    Like


  411. @wordynerdy:

    “I believe that the USA’s current institutional arrangements, while imperfect, will generally to protect national interests. There is no national interest that (I think) the CIA would reasonably pursue by drugging and brainwashing people in Nigeria.”

    Really, like oil?

    Or like in Ukraine? Joe Bidens son was named as the second highest boss in the biggest ukranian energy company. You think that has nothing to do with gas and oil in Ukraine?

    Like


  412. @ sami parkkonen

    US companies already extract oil from Nigeria. Shell, for example, already controls a significant proportion of oils resources in the Niger Delta.

    Rendering Nigeria even more politically unstable would run counter to the US’s interests in the region.

    Like


  413. @ Wordy

    True, you did not call my commentary worthless. And nor have you treate it that way.
    We can disagree, but because I believe differently to you doesn’t make me a conspiracy theorist, or unreasonable, either, does it?

    It IS wrong of me to assume you believe everything your government tells you.
    I don’t know that! And, I am sorry for saying that, although that is not what I meant.

    I meant, that we were talking about BH specifically, you appear to believe what your government tells you abouth BH.

    There’s a difference.

    To recap:
    An article made a point about LSD and suicide bombing.
    Someone said it was untrue, because they had taken LSD themselves and they did not “black out” (although the article said nothing about blacking out).
    I said the point was not about “blacking out”: a susceptible individual coudl be given the drug and become delusional and suggestible under its influence, so it wasn’t outside the realms of possibility.

    To satisfy my own curiousity on this issue, one way or another, I looked at what the internet says about LSD — because I don’t know much about drugs of this kind and would not pronounce expertise on it even if I had taken it myself…

    What I found showed that US govt used this drug on individuals to see how much their minds could be swayed when under its influence.
    The research is from 60 years ago.
    Most of the research on it was destroyed over 40 years ago.
    However, the research and intention behind Project MKULTRA (as it was called) remains. Project MKULTRA used LSD for mind control experiments. Additionally, AFRICOM has interests in Africa and employs a number of operations to protect and pursue those interests, it seems.

    Yet, I am unreasonable to speculate that if a government carries out the “behavioural engineering of humans” using drugs at one time, then such drugs would not be used at a later stage in, another place?
    Especially in a place where that same government has interests?

    Maybe there isn’t “substantial” evidence to support it.
    Yet, I wonder: if this up-to-date information be disclosed for public consumption? Isn’t it otherwise kept away or destroyed?

    That said, Wordy, you are not a commenter that has treated my commentary as unreasonable. I have always respected you and your commentary and you have always treated me the same way.

    Like


  414. I never said the cia didnt test LSd…never, I know they did..

    what is extremly unbeleivable is to think it was used as a method to send people out on suicide bomb missions on lsd

    this discription of being suggestable and standing etc, has nothing to do with being given a task and completing it…expecialy a suicide bombing

    on lsd, you are going to be hyper aware of manipulations…you are going to get more paranoid if you think someone is manipulating you…and its not a suicide drug…people die if they think they can fly, but, not willingly commit suicide..anyone who halfway understands the properties of that drug , know that was a bogus description…written by someone trying to be sensational and like they saw it in a movie, like Reds or something, the one with Bruce Willis , its fantacy..it just shows how much the person was trying to reach into fantacy and sensationalism to get people to beleive it

    the Ukrain elections just elected a moderate, not to be a part of Russia…Putins take over of the Crimea is the aggresive move that implies engineering and orchestration…he had the photo opp…

    and so the USA is the only one interested in oil? Brazil has huge oil reserves…the USA isnt going to invade them…they also have unrest on the streets now…the cia has nothing to do with it…

    its a cliche that every move the USA makes is for oil..or recources…they certainly have, Iraq was the worst case of American Imperialism on the books, but, that isnt the case everytime

    I mean I dont care if its Marxists or fundimentalists or capatalists, they go out after recources also…that is what is happening in the world…Putin went after Crimea for oil

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  415. @ BR

    If you KNEW about the CIA using LSD, then why didn’t you reasonably and rationally answer in that knowledge, talking about susceptible individuals, and Sidney Gotlieb?

    If you knew, you would have told and told and told and told.

    Sorry, but really…

    Like


  416. this discription of being suggestable and standing etc, has nothing to do with being given a task and completing it…expecialy a suicide bombing

    If you “knew” the research, as you claim, BR, you would “know” what kind of people were already suggestible!

    Like


  417. i agree with what Bulanik is saying here…

    I am not a conspiracy theorist either.
    One is not automatically a conspiracy theorist if one does not trust GOVERNMENTS and politicians…

    I too am not a conspiracy theorists. Though I doubt many people here would be convinced by me saying this as someone with more than a passing interest in ETs and UFOs. 🙂

    But this is the point…

    Anything which our Governments or societal institutions tells us is at best marginally true and at worst gross lies and unimaginable grotesque fabrications!

    But it gets worse its been like that for 100’s if not 1000’s of years.

    Its hard for the majority of people to believe such statements could be true and continue to function normally in society. So they don’t ! (function normally or believe it)!) They carry on believing most of what the Government and society says is true. It has to be. Otherwise all those false statements and lies would have been exposed a long time ago. Its just madness and a form of delusional insanity to believe a Western Government like the US could practice such a blatant form of dishonesty and get away with it for so long. Other countries like Russia and China sure but the US, the UK or the rest of Europe surely not?

    The fact is most people have no or little idea of what our Governments get or have gotten up to. Go back 10-15 years when the internet was just developing and we wouldn’t be even here discussing this issue as even a remote possibility. Such a thought would be totally ridiculed and treated as insanely conspiratorially.

    But now today in the age of the internet and social media where information is easier to come by and past histories, actions and alternative accounts, of what Governments are doing and have done, are all within our grasp. We dismiss such a resource as information overload and unnecessary. Preferring instead to trust in what we’ve all been brought up to always believe: Society, of course has its problems but generally, functions OK. Its leaders are generally trustworthy (there are always exceptions to this) but they have our best interests at heart. Don’t they?

    To believe anything else is just BS conspiracy theory, baseless irrationality. Yes???

    Unfortunately for those of us who taken the time to study and read doing the basic internet research it is sadly NOT the reality or the truth. In fact not trusting or relying on the information provided by government and societal institutions is only the first step….

    The next step is in uncovering and exposing the REAL TRUTH which is much harder…

    But as illustrated by this discussion here on researching the simple evidence that Boko Haram is a construction by the CIA in favour of its own imperialistic agenda. That first step proves to be hard and difficult for many people to take…

    Like


  418. I did mention I knew the cia was testing lsd, its above somewhere, i dont know gotileib, I would never deny that…suggestibility and carrying out a suicide bomb mission are two differant things…lsd is a mind expanding drug..to think it was on the program of the cia to use it to give to potential suicide bombers and then send them out on the mission…well, it just sounds like the person writing it just doesnt know anything about it…

    yeah,i dont trust anybodies internet information, the internet is also a huge fonte of bs…i do it painstakingly and over a long period…my understanding of what happened in the cold war is not from google…i see the people involved telling their story…i find more incriminating information and truth coming from the people who actualy admitted they were trying to have a marxist revolution in brazil..or an actual Castro promo Cuban docu about him

    the last thing i wanted to do going to Brazil is have to become hyper politicly aware..unfortunetly, I had to, to deal with tons of bs coming at me about America and its policies…anybody pegging me as someone gullible enough to beleive anything coming down the pike is seriously underestimating my life experiance far away from the comfort zone of being an American sitting back in America

    I learned more than I ever wanted to , it gave me the guts to stick up to the lies..from all sides…Its not I know so much, its that I recognise bs

    Like


  419. resw77,
    If there were no palladium available, then a substitute would be found. That’s how capitalist, competitive businesses operate. But you seem to suggest that if palladium from Africa were suddenly removed from the market, the auto industry would no longer have a way of making pollution control devices.

    Palladium may be the best commodity for catalytic converters today, but you are foolish to think that all research into the subject has ended and all of the manufacturers are happy to make the converters with palladium, a commodity that costs over $1,500 an ounce. More than gold.

    You can be sure there’s a mad search for a cheaper alternative to palladium and for that reason no African exporter will make the mistake of withholding supplies.

    As for other commodities from Africa, like I said, if supplies are curtailed, other sources and/or alternatives will be found. That’s how things work.

    Like


  420. @ Kwamla

    “…Preferring instead to trust in what we’ve all been brought up to always believe: Society, of course has its problems but generally, functions OK. Its leaders are generally trustworthy (there are always exceptions to this) but they have our best interests at heart. Don’t they?

    To believe anything else is just BS conspiracy theory, baseless irrationality. Yes???

    Unfortunately for those of us who taken the time to study and read doing the basic internet research it is sadly NOT the reality or the truth. In fact not trusting or relying on the information provided by government and societal institutions is only the first step….


    But as illustrated by this discussion here on researching the simple evidence that Boko Haram is a construction by the CIA in favour of its own imperialistic agenda. That first step proves to be hard and difficult for many people to take…

    (My emphasis/)

    You know I’ve heard writers talk about “killing their darlings”, their pet themes or phrases that spoils their work but are the hardest to let go of?
    Perhaps it’s the same with some ideals, especially ones that concern Authority and Institutions.
    Just a thought.

    Like


  421. Sharina,

    The articles about B-P and the Gulf Oil spill are opinion pieces. You would know that if you were to read the conclusions.

    They state their findings in terminology like this: Research SUGGESTS the dispersant MIGHT have contributed to…

    Or, maybe it did nothing at all.

    Like


  422. taleoflions,

    I know all about “peer-reviewed” science research, and research in other areas.

    For whatever little it may interest you, my undergraduate degree is in mechanical engineering. I long ago lost count of the number of scientific papers I’ve read.

    In any case, when there’s something to be gained in the world of research grants — money — there’s plenty of collusion among the peers doing the reviewing.

    These days you can get research grants to investigate any suspected cause of global warming. But there’s no dough for those who take the other side.

    Like


  423. ^^

    I’m sorry but this is just getting offensive.

    There is no evidence whatsoever that B-H is a CIA ‘construction’. None of the links made on this page provide a shred of support for that theory. If you (I mean the collective ‘you’) are going to make assertions of this sort can you please at least apply some academic rigour to the ‘research’ you carry out?

    B.R – I’m surprised we’re in agreement for once too!

    Like


  424. @ Wordy, how is getting offensive?

    Like


  425. @ Bulanik,

    One of the hardest ideals most people, not just here on this blog, but globally are increasingly finding hard to believe is that their Governments and Institutional Authorities have LIED to them. Not just once, a few times but repeatedly and consistently for 100/1000’s of years.

    This surely is too much to take in and swallow? And YES! This much is true. But it is happening and people are waking up to this TRUTH in mass!

    Sadly, those who refuse to acknowledge or come around to this REALITY really will be limiting their effective time on this planet as it moves through these changes.

    Like


  426. “…There is no evidence whatsoever that B-H is a CIA ‘construction…”

    I think what you mean is there is no evidence, despite links and analysis supplied, to convince your disbelieving mind!

    Here is that link again…

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/responsibilty-to-protect-is-nigerias-boko-haram-insurgency-another-cia-covert-operation-wikileaks/5381225

    What you fail to appreciate is the FACT that you will not be told this or have it reported to you in the form of academic rigour or authoritative analysis you demand. Who do you think it would undermine if it was?

    Isn’t this the reason why Edward Snowden resides in Russia? And Bradley Manning remains locked up?

    Like


  427. @ Kwamla

    Wordy has also mentioned academic rigour.
    There have been a lot of links so far — I am not sure which ones have been academic, or speculative in nature. But I am not sure how much this has been ignored.

    But, the CIA is well-known to conduct many of its activities in a clandestine way. So how on earth could academics have access to proofs that they could subject any rigour to? Would that no jeopardize the operations in question?
    That seems not just unlikely, but unsafe.

    And, say if academics did have access to covert operations, would their findings and reports be accessible to the general public?
    Would their findings on current and ongoing covert ops be broadcasted for all to hear and see?
    I don’t think so, somehow.

    Remember when George Bush said:
    Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons
    (18th March, 2003)

    Or:
    We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons — the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have
    (8 Feb, 2003)

    Or when Tony Blair said:
    Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit
    (28 April, 2003)

    Or:
    We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd
    (18 March, 2003)
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4882.htm

    Like


  428. @ Kwamla, I don’t know the law of the US military, but:

    I thought US law decrees that CIA carries out its operations covertly until the President says otherwise.

    Isn’t this also a standard definition of covert operations as given in US Dept of Defense’s Dictionary of Military Terms: “an operation that is so planned and executed as to conceal the identity of or permit plausible denial by the sponsor” ?

    Isn’t that part of the Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms? That is something detailed on the internet should anyone wish to search. There have been previous links to AFRICOM — US command in Africa already outlining “interests”.

    I am sure how many links are available to the public.

    http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/new_pubs/jp1_02.pdf
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/m011806.pdf

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  429. @ Kwamla, my point about the quotes from Blair and Bush was to illustrate that what the public is told is garnered from information that the public would not have access to.

    And there is no way that, as members of the public, we can subject that information to test whether it is true or false if our highest authorities tell so, and slap down questioning voices as “absurd”, etc. whilst they tell us that…

    Like


  430. @Bulanik

    To me this falls under the whole “occam’s razor” deal…..which view point requires a lot less to support it.

    The conspiracy theory or the terrorist theory.

    Like


  431. @v-4, why?

    Like


  432. @ v-4, please also provide links.

    Like


  433. @Bulanik

    For Occam’s Razor or for sources calling Boko Haram terrorists?

    Like


  434. This is exactly the point Bulanik….How does one judge whether the information given to us from supposedly respectable authorities is true or false?

    The short answer is you can’t ! However, if you are still after all these recent (last 5 years) public false revelations (many of which you have highlighted in detail Bulanik) blinding accepting what government public institutions are saying is true. Then you will forever commit yourself to a life of being manipulated and misled. Its this insidious but blatant schooled reluctant practice to question seemingly authoritative sources of information and rubbishing all others. That allows those ruling elites to continue playing their genocidal games on an unquestioning dumb mass public.

    All governments in power in most countries are of aware of and use this tactic of manipulating their populations. But the US leads the world…

    Like


  435. @ V-4

    How can Occam’s Razor apply in a situation where you only Think you have all the information. When the real truth is invariably. You don’t!

    Like


  436. @ Kwamla. Yes.

    Notice, this:

    Info and perhaps, evidence, is provided
    It is rejected, apparently ignored.

    Proofs are requested.
    It is skipped over.

    Proofs are requested again.
    It is not good enough.

    Proofs are requested.
    It’s not good enough. Or, silence.

    Proofs are requested again.
    Parts are ignored, it’s not good enough, it proves nothing.
    Proofs are requested…

    Like


  437. @Bulanik

    Maybe its rejected for a reason? How legitimate would you take anything by fox news?

    @Kwamla

    We rarely have “all” the information but with what information we do have; occam’s razor still applies.

    Like


  438. @ v4 you have not told us why nor provided links to support your reasoning.

    Like


  439. ^^ all you have done is ask questions.
    I really think it’s your turn to come up with the goods.

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  440. “A divided and warring Nigeria ultimately serves the interests of the United States as cited by Zbigniew Brzezinski, top adviser to Barack Obama and leading US foreign policy theoretician. Brzezinski, who co-founded the Trilateral Commission and openly credits himself with the creation of the Afghan Mujahideen [24], has influenced policy that encourages the division of existing nation-states by the succession and emergence of microstates, based on all cultural, ethnic and religious peculiarities.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/covert-ops-in-nigeria-fertile-ground-for-us-sponsored-balkanization/30259

    Like


  441. ^^ SAME ARTICLE SOURCE:

    “Following the mass exodus of Chinese business interests during the Libyan conflict, a shattered Nigeria would ultimately create conditions where China’s growing cooperation with Abuja can be challenged and ultimately, disrupted. China has provided extensive economic, military and political support to Nigeria, an important source of oil and petroleum for Beijing. In addition to sponsoring Nigeria for a permanent seat in the UN Security Council [26], China has invested in Africa’s booming telecommunications market by building and launching a geostationary commercial satellite, owned by Nigeria and operated in Abuja, [27] as a gesture of increased partnership between the two nations. In 2010, China and Nigeria signed a $23 billion deal to construct three fuel refineries in Nigeria, adding an extra 750,000 barrels per day of domestic refining capacity [28].”

    this is EXACTLY what i said above!!!

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  442. @wordynerdygirl:

    “Rendering Nigeria even more politically unstable would run counter to the US’s interests in the region.”

    On the contrary. Nigeria is the only country on that region which has been considered as possible local power and such it could be a treath to US interests in the region. So it is in the US interest to keep Nigeria from developing into a regional powerhouse. Thus the claissic CIA method: destabilisation, fear campaign, possible civil war, interfierence etc.

    They did it in Vietnam, Chile, Nicaragua, Honduras, Costa Rica, post war Italy, France, and they have done it else where too and they are doing it now at least in Syria, Ukraine, and Nigeria. This is nothing new. Big powers always do this stuff.

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  443. Khalifa Jifter
    “The putch came after Hifter launched an air raid against the al-Qaeda government in Bengazi, and after the Muslim Brotherhood aligned Ahmed Maetiq formed a government, on Sunday, waiting for the approval of the General National Council. Top Al-Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood leaders, including Abdelhakim Belhadj, have reportedly been fleeing the country.”

    Kwamla, the link you mentioned was about Khalifa Hifter..yet here in an a report, he is bombing Al Queada..and you wonder why the USA is got some interest in this guy?

    This is obviously more complex than you would like to make it out to be..if you would follow your own advice, you might have some new insights

    Its especialy perplexing , that, with the truth about Mali, that we know Al Queada invaded there, brought a violent fundamentalist form of Islam, replacing the benign Islam that was there , I mean they were cutting off peoples hands and stopping people from listening to music , that the wonderful Dogon, who you helped me to find out about, their culture would be severly affected by this extremist form of Islam that would destroy their culture…your absence of comment or concern on that is bracing

    The notions the USA invented Al Queada, are totaly false…they funded them by sending money and stingers and training them to use the stingers…they already existed…they were their own entity and back then, colaborating to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, nobody thought they would then attack the USA…as a matter of fact, people didnt even get it when the first World Trade Center bombing happened, everyone was in denial about this…people run with the Clinton video implying she is saying that they invented Al Queada…a very false assumption

    Things are so complex in North Africa, there is no one here who is really capable of knowing what is going on…in the murky underworld of the chaos and violence that is about these nations going through their gut wrenching turn overs, there is a very few hard core set rules of who are the good guys and who are the bad…

    This “Global Report” , wiki leaks referances, is a sham, and people should know, Im not ridiculing the people bringing in these links, Im ridiculing the links themselves, with their Swizz cheese holes, and Im ridiculing the Turkish people who think Syria was engineered for the sex trade by the cia for nato…I actualy apreciete people bringing in these links so I can fully address how lame they are…I live on a regular basis hearing, seeing or reading of false notions of the cia and what America is doing, these answers are on the tip of my tounge because I have to be able to answer them..to not be aware of what happens out in this world with America policies puts me at a tremendously vulnerable position where I live

    Basicly , no one on here really knows or can make a differance what is going down in Nigeria, we all are just giving opinions..so, ill be really eager to see if this plot that these links keep referring to plays out…that is all that matters, lets see if the USA makes an attempt to break up Nigeria ..if that is what they are trying, it will become blatently clear, but these links dont have any proof of it, they are all speculating also and with some really lame rationsalisations

    The cia for sure is suposed to be trying to find out what is happening, I would bet they are trying to develope infiltrators and double agents to find out what is happening, they have gotten burned before, and have left their flank open…they dont really understand extremist fundimental violent religious terrorism…they do understand how to throw money at people and try to bribe people…that is what they do well…and send arms that bite them in the rear end but, they are fish out of water in the North Africa situation…

    but great, lets see what happens, and I wont forget this discusion as we find out the real truth down the line

    ill check your links out later, v8 , but, how about your lsd expertice? do you actualy think someone would make it an official program to send people out on a suicide missions on lsd?

    Wordynerdygirl..its a pleasure to agree with you about this

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  444. Sami, you cant just bring in cold war referances with out understanding what the other side was doing, what they stood for and why they were so grusome with their multi million eliminations that that is why we were fighting them

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  445. v8, there is nothing incriminating in the suposed wiki leaks cia reports , they are all observations

    the one after that is just rehashing the “GlobalReport”, including the ridiculous lsd references…my god

    Tony Ossai has the wisest words of all that aply triply to here:
    “These theories are purely a product of armchair research and speculative intuitions and should therefore not be treated as facts but opinions towards finding a permanent solution to the Boko Haram insurgency in Nigeria.”

    kudos to him , I said somthing similar above…truer words were never spoken

    Like


  446. ^^

    No-one is ‘silencing’ anyone. It was 2 o’clock in the morning here when I signed off for heaven’s sake – I have a job and I simply don’t have the time to ‘debate’ ridiculous conspiracy theories. It’s 9:30ish now and I should really be doing my work.

    I could post peer-reviewed articles dating back to the EARLY 2000s that discuss B-H in the context of worldwide informal violence. But I find it ridiculous that I am being required to perform a search that you should be carrying out yourself – just search jstor, informit or the myriad of other academic search engines for information.

    By the way, research does NOT mean reading and then copying from articles on conspiracy websites.

    Anyway, believe what you want to believe. This is both annoying and exhausting.

    Like


  447. @sb

    “If there were no palladium available, then a substitute would be found. ”

    The global demand for both platinum and palladium are currently higher than the supply, therefore the world is dependent on them. If any of these materials were withheld tomorrow, auto manufacturers would not be able to produce vehicles that meet high emissions standards. Opining what substitute would be found and how effective it would be is fantasy at this point, and irrelevant since no equal substitute is available at this time.

    The point is that you are wrong to think Europe does not need to source most of its resources from Africa and elsewhere. You’re also wrong again about palladium prices. It’s about $825/oz. Platinum is $1475 but works better. Regardless if its expensive and the will exists for a viable alternative. The fact is that platinum is used NOW and works the best NOW. Get it?

    “As for other commodities from Africa, like I said, if supplies are curtailed, other sources and/or alternatives will be found. That’s how things work.”

    Well tell that to Teuscher, Godiva, Nestle, Ferrero and Europe’s other chocolate manufacturers that depend on African cocoa farmers. When Laurent Gbagbo tried to nationalise Cote d’ivoire’s cocoa production, what happened to him? The French took him out and installed a guy who was friends with former French President Sarkozy. There’s a lot you have to learn.

    Like


  448. @ B.R.

    Boko Haram is way too well armed for the part of Nigeria it comes from. Someone outside the region is backing it. It could easily be the US, which has a long, long, LONG history of doing just that sort of thing. It is hardly the far-fetched idea you seem to think it is. But the backers could also be, say, Saudi Arabia, al-Qaeda or someone within Nigeria. Or some or all of the above. But the MO fits the US best.

    If it is the US, news of it is not going to be shouted from the rooftops by the BBC or CNN. At least not any time soon. It would come through stuff like Wikileaks. The fact that you openly deride whistleblowers, like Snowden, Assange and Manning, tells me that you are not willing to be fair-minded about this.

    Like


  449. @ abagond

    But Wikileaks has not released anything about this. The article above does not contain copies of cables, transcripts or any other information released by Wikileaks or divulged by Snowdon.

    I agree with V-4. Until concrete evidence emerges proves otherwise, Occam’s razor applies. In other words, all of the available evidence shows that B-H insurgents are acting in their own interests and not as part of some worldwide CIA conspiracy.

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  450. I have not read all of the lastest comments to this thread but I must say that the LSD mind control theory seems quite far-fetched to me, That so-called “leak” sounds more like an attempt at disseminating of disinformation than anything else.

    The fact that the CIA via project MK-ULTRA is said to have conducted (unscientific, mind you) human testing of the effects of LSD (an unpredictable halucinogen) on an unwitting public some 50+ years ago, does NOT equate to that same drug having any viability as a method of mind control back then or 50 some odd years later (as LSD is too unpredictable where predictability might be very much needed especially, say, in the case of a “Manchurian Candidate” type of assassin or in longer term projects such as, say, kidnapping and holding hostage 200 schoolgirls).

    Lysergic acid was only one such substance that is said to have been tested in a quest for the mind control of others. The Department of Defense is said to have conducted many tests on a variety of substances, as well as techniques (some of them being quite sophisticated), in the ensuing years since the start up of those LSD experiments more than half a century ago.

    If LSD is all that viable a method of mind control, why waste money and time researching other possible methods / techniques to do the work that this one drug alone can do?!!

    Like


  451. resw77,

    As I said, and you seem to confirm in a convoluted way, when an expensive commodity can be replaced by a less costly one — it is. Meanwhile, if a highly useful commodity is suddenly unavailable, the game changes.

    If palladium, or some reasonable alternative of similar price were removed from the market, the pollution rules would change.

    Meanwhile, you’re making the assumption that palladium exists nowhere else in the world. That was an argument once made about oil and gas.

    By the way, oil, gas and coal are holding onto their places as the chief sources of energy because there’s no better and/or lower-cost alternative.

    Regarding cocoa beans from Africa, who cares?

    Moreover, having no interest in Gbagbo, I have no idea how he died. But considering the location, if he actually met an untimely death, it was most likely at the hands of someone close to him in the government who was going to lose his source of free money following the plan to “nationalize” the cocoa production.

    “Nationalize” is another way of saying Gbagbo wanted all the money for himself.

    Like


  452. Absolutly, Pay it Forward…a suicide mission on LSD sounds very strange to me..

    And that is the thing , Abagond, Im looking at all this information and there are huge holes, flaws, speculations…Im observing that…how can I not deride the flaws? Am I suposed to take Noam Chomsky seriously if he sais China had better health care than the USA back in the early 60’s, when thrity million died of starvation? Or he does a huge paper on the state of Colombia and devotes page after page to America and the military industrial complex related to Colombia and only a paragraph to Farc, calling them freedom fighters? You know thy are in the middle of elections and a conservative is running a close election on a serious bare down on Farc campain? Farc is dead serious business , thug drug dealers and kidnappers ,plaguing Colombia and he calls them Freedom fighters?

    I mean, do we listen to the bs by Bush and Chenny and let them get away with it? These reports are full of actual bs…what do you want? Ive pointed it out vividly…do you want me to take it paragraph by paragraph? Its flawed!! most especialy by implication by speculation…

    seeing Hilary Clinton say we funded Al Quaeda does not mean we invented them and orchestrated them, like the notions that are put out by showing that video..that is absolutly not what she means or it means

    Because of some side comments in Turkey by some people that say that the cia engineered the Syria conflict for sex slaves for Nato…I mean, really, abagond….you tell me…Im at a loss for words at anyone who would beleive that…

    And the USA has done regime change and cia infiltrations…I say of course we should look at all posibilities…yet, if we are going to make sure to look at these past things the USA did, with the cia..arnt we suposed to examine them in the context and really understand what the other side was doing? Who all the players were? What was the context? World War 2? The Cold War? How do you reccomend dealing with an ideology that was being aggresivly spread, with as deep infrastructure as the cia, as deep games, as deep funding , that eliminates multi millions?

    But, we are suposed to for sure look at the obvious smears
    Wiki leaks is a guy with a hate and vendetta against the USA, he has gotten information illegaly, that really isnt as damaging as he would like…and , its done by everyone…he got it by a green beret type or some beret type who wants to change from a man to a woman…which I would suggest is a serious emotional trauma for a guy in the army..couldnt you say that has more chance than a person sent out on a suicide mission on lsd? do you know lsd, abagond?This guy , obviously emotionaly troubled , ripped off secrets, secrests that every nation has…and all I see in the link v8 brought in is observations..I dont see engineering and hooks up with Boko Haram…all I hear is speculations , but if you wade into it, it floats away like a cloud

    And , Ill give you a tip about Snowdon and anyone like him..if you ever hear a white guy now ranting about the evil USA , how it is getting out of hand,the government is spying on us all….and he never sais a word about Bush or Chenney…or even worked for them , but now, well into the Obama administration, he pulls this…I wouldnt trust him as far as I could throw a bus…he is a safado

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  453. @BR:

    Something is very wrong when people go after the whistleblowers. When Daniel Elsberg, who by the way worked for the military intelligence before becoming one, released the Pentagon papers he was a hero of the american values, exposing the crimes of the elite.

    Today, guys like BR are trying portray these people as nuts and criminals, just like the Elite wants. This is what is wrong in USA today. True, Snowden worked for the Bush government BUT he came out with information which also includes the crimes of the Bush government.

    Wikileaks is not a guy. It is a web page which released secret documents which revealed whole load of lies and crimes of the US government.

    As for the sex slaves of Nato, one of the first things they did in Bosnia peace keeping operation was to set up the prostitution. That was widely documented and reported in 1990’s. French Foreign Legion usually does it one way or another when ever they are in any specific area.

    I don’t think they do it in Syria though, since what they do there is get tsetshen jihadists and Al Qaida members to get in and get armed to fight the syrian government. And once again, just like Ukraine or in Irak, it is all about the oil.

    MKULTRA programme was just one of the CIA programmes in the 50’s which aimed for mind control. All of those were abandoned when it was found out that media control is more effective in controlling the population and that people with strong convictions are not to be manipulated via any drug. Instead the good old torture can open them up, like we saw in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib.

    USA was the leading country in the public health care in early 1960’s but what happened after that? Just check out the change in taxation. In early 1960’s the highest income tax rate was roughly 80% for the richest people. Nixon administration decided to privatize health care because “it can be a good business” and began the tax reform which lowered the taxes of the rich and the super rich.

    Who is defendin FARC? I have not seen anybody praisin them.

    Nobody is denying what the Soviet Union or China did or what they are doing today. But that does not mean USA is not doing anything.

    As for Boko Haram, BR dear, tell us why on earth US government protected it for years?

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  454. @br, I personally would not use LSD to ‘program’ suicide bombers, they would probably scatter and jump in a stream or write poetry or something. I guess I didn’t make it too too clear, but I posted a link to the drug called socopolamine sp? which would seem to be more appropriate to the task as defined. Now out of the 15 articles people posted here on this thread and to selectively focus on that one issue? I have to say something seems to be bothering you about this all? You ate the apple pie, we get it. Just be a little open minded.

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  455. @br the other thing is, here we have a document wherein it is cited (from globalresearch.ca a long-standing ‘think-tank’) that the US litereally ‘created’ the mujahideen in Afghanistan, and that is me just setting precedent, and pointing out a very similar setting ie destabilzation of that region, for resources (opium/natural gas pipelines) aginst the setting of a power play on a ‘hegemonic’ or realpolitik backdrop vs. the cccp. So substitute, BH for mujahideen, oil for opium/pipelines, and China for Russia. That is enough to give my argument, and the argument of others here PLAUSIBILITY. Will we know? No,

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  456. V8 , why do you think Im focusing on that blatent aspect ? Why do you think I focus on Chomskys lies ? Because if they are going to butcher those aspects so blatently , it reflects on every other implication in the article …how can I even trust their speculation if they have such idiotic not well thought out aspects that stick out like a sore thumb…my gosh we have no problem aplying that logic to Bush and company when we find out how bogus they were about weapons of mass destruction…when that lie became apherant , it just highlighted their total bs for going into Iraq…Im looking at you funny for not understanding the same principle going on here..you think I cant go over that long winded flawed global report and rip it apart with its half truths , bogus speculations and lies ?

    This Global Report said America created the mujahiden in Afghanistan ? How really bs is that? They already existed , and as far as Al Quaeda, why dont you study Sayyib Qutb to really understand their origins..actualy I think the mujahiden , who some were our allies fighting Al Queada, the Talaban and Al Queada would be insulted if you told them the cia invented them..I brought in very pertinente information how the Talaban were created in the Obama gratuitous photos number I forgot thread…yet the broken record continues…as well as you , Bulanik and Sami have each , seperatly , as your proof of cia invention of Boko Haram , brought in basicly the same flawed referance to wikileaks , with their LSD referance sticking out like a sore thumb waving flag that just screams “Im bs” “Im bs”….I attack that because its blatently obvious , but it reflects the whole biased speculalative nature of the whole report…I mean in all seriousness , is that the best you all can do to prove the cia created Boko Haram? Because weak arguments are just that….half truths are just that, and silly sensationalist lies are just that

    What your problem is , v8 , you dont see this anti American crud up close and personal , but I get to see it down here live and in technicolor . So when the country of Colombia invites the USA to bring some military down to Colômbia military bases , to help in the battle against Farc , while Hugo Chavez , and Corrêa of Ecuador are aiding and abbetting them , the banshee anti American screamers down here go crazy yelling that Americans are setting up military bases in Colômbia (they are Colombian , not American bases) and that it is preperation to go and invade the Amazon, and Brazil for oil and water, and the cia is behind everything…by the way , saying America invented Al Quaeda would be like me saying Chavez invented Farc…he didnt , but he threw money at them and aided them , like America did to Al Quaeda to fight the Soviets

    These notions the USA is planning to invade Brazil for oil and water are ridiculous, so , Sami, the referance to Farc, is to show this works exactly the same way

    The real damage is when these people scream that the USA is about to invade Brazil and the Amazon, Farc , with Chavez supporting them when he was alive, besides destabaling and causing chaos in Colômbia , they are drug running coke and crack to various huge traficing gangs all over Brazil , that I have found links throughout the country of Brazil, and , while not being the only player, Farc has contributed to Brazil being the largest crack user on the planet, and I watched this flood in of coke and crack with my own eyes and the huge amount of decimatiin to society that brings , as well as the gang wars where huge numbers of young , mostly black and brown people dying, way more in one year than all the military dictatorships in the cona Sul of South America killed in the whole cold war….of course , there is individual accountability, but Farc has a big hand at flooding Brazil with coke and crack ….while these people banshee scream the USA is going to invade….and the cia is under mining and engineering everything…

    Yes , Sami, the cia did the same thing going North ….and Iran Contra, though not on as large a scale as this coke crack invasion in Brazil, the numbers are staggering. And for sure , Bush Chenny over using ” terrorists and weapons of mass destruction” and the Mcarthy era seeing commies in everything, and people now saying Obama is a socialist , is the exact same banshee screaming…dont you both get it ? Cant you see through the blatent bs on both sides ? Oh , I am so thankful for the education I am getting that cuts through the bs on both sides….Castro , Hugo Chavez , Bin Laden are as bad as Bush , Chenny, Rumsfeld , etc Its all about power

    There are quantifiable differances on whistle blowers …are they really tellig the truth , or pushing for their agenda , and will slant or lie about the truth to push their agenda….so what do you look for ? The blatent bs…if you see some ridiculous blatent bs in a report….then it is biased and pushing an agenda, and Wikileaks is blatently biased and pushing an agenda, you cant honestly expect me to beleive in that crap….do you both beleive in weapons of mass destruction?

    And I just dont like the way Snowdon smells…you know , I dont trust just anything coming down the pike , from anywhere , especialy my government….I trust my gut, especialy from my rich experiance getting out of my comfort zone living in America…I love my real life on the ground education , I didnt really ask for or expect, and I love my nose and its ability to detect bs….from all sides…

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  457. @ BR

    Well, I have to agree with Abagond and sami about this.
    You are not willing to be fair-minded about this.
    It’s all very well congratulating anyone who agrees with you on this detail or that, whilst ridiculing the commentary of those that don’t — not cool.

    I noticed this, too:

    Because of some side comments in Turkey by some people that say that the cia engineered the Syria conflict for sex slaves for Nato…I mean, really, abagond….you tell me…Im at a loss for words at anyone who would beleive that…

    You are referring to a comment I made much earlier.
    What I said was that some Turks believe their country is involved in trafficking both arms and humans to conflict zones — not only to Syria — and that NATO is involved. It’s not as if it’d be the first time NATO was involved in such business.

    The people that I spoke to me did NOT say it was CIA-engineered, and not did I say that.

    I have told before on this thread not to put words into my mouth.
    I am telling you again, DON’T do it.

    Like


  458. @v8

    … personally would not use LSD to ‘program’ suicide bombers, they would probably scatter and jump in a stream or write poetry or something. I guess I didn’t make it too too clear, but I posted a link to the drug called socopolamine sp? which would seem to be more appropriate to the task as defined. Now out of the 15 articles people posted here on this thread and to selectively focus on that one issue? I have to say something seems to be bothering you about this all? You ate the apple pie, we get it. Just be a little open minded.

    I’d agree with you on this one: we don’t know if the bomber in question was “programmed” — the article does not say.
    But anyone who hunkers over this one detail in the midst of so many, has me wondering.

    Like


  459. Three years ago, the US HOuse of Representative issued a report from its Homeland Security Committe titled: ‘Boko Haram: Emerging Threat to the US Homeland.’

    The group could be a threat to Nigeria’s oil production, it said.

    Because “the rising threat of Boko Haram presents the United States” that means there is “an opportunity to expand diplomatic and military engagement with both Abuja and Nigerian Muslims in the north”.

    The report:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/74286783/Homeland-Security-Committee-Report-Boko-Haram-Emerging-Threat-to-the-U-S-Homeland?secret_password=1sq5dweo8gt9mkb9t5fj

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  460. Bulanik,Im reffering to the people in Turkey who told you that…not you..it wasnt even an article to referance…

    I just explained why I have been stomping on the lsd referance…the fact three people , independent of each other have referanced that article as the proof the cia has engineered boko haram is much stranger to me than my lsd referances…and , i have patiently answered every link brought in here with my maybe perceived impatient responces..im trying to show that making the usa the boogey man in this discussion is the same logic as what I see down here in South America and the screams of American Imperialism and cia intervention and they use it to hide activities that actualy are doing great damage

    I actualy apreciete greatly the information you and the others are bringing in about this thinking the USA engineered Boko Haram, its a treasure trove of how these sources are in denial and how the people writing these things you all bring in are warped and hiding behind half truths and distortions, speculations and lies

    I have no problem addressing these things in hope we can maybe have the real discussion about this if we can isolate the bs

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  461. What your problem is , v8 , you dont see this anti American crud up close and personal ,

    Anyone who doesn’t praise or back the US, are simply ANTI-AMERICAN.

    Ockam’s razor!

    Like


  462. @ V8driver

    ” You ate the apple pie, we get it. Just be a little open minded.”

    LMAO!

    Like


  463. (Abagond, that’d be V-8)

    Like


  464. And so Abagnd, if im eating apple pie, what are the people bringing in the same flawed paper , independent of each other, as their main course of the reason they think Boko Haram was engineered by the cia ,eating?

    And with your strange notion that you are somehow so much more fair minded and balanced about this, what are you eating?

    You think Im eating apple pie? Im just pointing out flawed logic and biased information about this…the same way you point out flawed logic in white racism in America

    Like


  465. (@ Bulanik: Thanks.)

    Like


  466. @ BR

    B. R.

    Khalifa Jifter
    “The putch came after Hifter launched an air raid against the al-Qaeda government in Bengazi, and after the Muslim Brotherhood aligned Ahmed Maetiq formed a government, on Sunday, waiting for the approval of the General National Council. Top Al-Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood leaders, including Abdelhakim Belhadj, have reportedly been fleeing the country.”

    Kwamla, the link you mentioned was about Khalifa Hifter..yet here in an a report, he is bombing Al Queada..and you wonder why the USA is got some interest in this guy?

    This is obviously more complex than you would like to make it out to be..if you would follow your own advice, you might have some new insights

    Do you have a link or source for this quote you’ve offered?

    It was not in the link I provided though the name Khaifa Jifter was referenced. What I’ve noticed about many of your voluminous comments is how they are quick to rubbish sources and links provided by others to substantiate the involvement of the CIA in Boko Haram. Yet all we have to go on is your “gut feelings” or personal experiences growing up in Brazil. Informative though they may be they offer no real insight into why you would take the opposing view you do?

    Its no good rubbishing and refusing to believe the detailed evidence provided by myself and others if you have nothing but your own personal anecdotal evidence yourself to offer. Why should anyone take you serious?

    So perhaps you could start with providing the source/link for your quote above…

    Like


  467. http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/25615084/kidnapped-nigerian-girls-reportedly-located-but-not-rescued#ixzz32wMQXpNg

    “NIGERIA- Nigeria’s military has reportedly located nearly 300 school girls who were kidnapped by Islamic extremists.

    But military officials fear that rushing in and using force to free the girls could get them killed.”

    Like


  468. @sb

    “As I said, and you seem to confirm in a convoluted way, when an expensive commodity can be replaced by a less costly one — it is”

    Clearly economics is not your forte. Oil, for example, CAN be replaced with renewable energy sources, but our current infrastructure is still dependent on oil, and that will not change overnight. So if oil were withheld tomorrow, the US economy would suffer.

    “If palladium, or some reasonable alternative of similar price were removed from the market, the pollution rules would change.”

    That’s naive of you. Legislation and administrative rules do not change that fast. So if platinum and palladium were withheld tomorrow, the immediate effect is that auto production would be stalled. If they did eventually change, the lasting effect would be more air pollution.

    Please know that we have the biggest platinum and palladium supply deficits in many years, prices are back on the rise, and we’re still dependent on them b/c they work the best. If there were a cheaper alternative, we’d be using it by now. Since there’s not, we’re still dependent on them, whether you accept it or not.

    “Meanwhile, you’re making the assumption that palladium exists nowhere else in the world. ”

    Not at all. I just know the fact that South Africa PRODUCES 75-80% of ALL platinum, which is primarily used for catalytic converters, and 40% of all palladium (Russia produces slightly more palladium). Certainly it exists elsewhere, e.g., the Great Lakes region of the US and Canada, etc., but nowhere have geologists found the quantities, grades near surface that exist in South Africa.

    “Regarding cocoa beans from Africa, who cares?”

    Those companies I mentioned, e.g., Nestle, Godiva, etc. care very much, as well as the billions of people around the world who consume chocolate. Most of it comes from West Africa.

    ““Nationalize” is another way of saying Gbagbo wanted all the money for himself.”

    You’re entitled to your opinion, but his stated reasoning was to provide more fair compensation to cocoa farmers. Of course, France obviously had a big problem with that.

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  469. http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1209998-on-target-canada-unlikely-to-admit-libyan-blunder-by-supporting-general

    I lost the link,Kwamla, but here is a link that implies the same thing…

    things may have changed since this, but, what i can say is, things are so complex about what is going on in the countries in North Africa , that to make cookie cutter statements about how arms got into Boko Harams hands only clouds what the truth could be…

    You have to understand, my “gut feelings” are tempered with some very in depth immersion in the political situation in Brazil …this is 28 years of trying to understand what happened…this is watching docus over and over in Portuguese , made by the people who staged the armed revolutions, their testimony, what they did, what they beleived in, where they trained…watching docus over and over of Castro and Che, made in Cuba, giving their story…constant reading of opinion peices in jornals and magizines and constant vigilance watching the news , what they say and dont say, and the casual tidbits that arnt meant to be incriminating but interesting, like interveiwing and ex kgb agent who talks about all the spies they had in Brazil..tyring to understand the history to find out that there was a commuinist revolution in the early thirties , surpressed by Getulio Vargas who then staged a coup…almost a duplicate of what went down in the 60’s , only to prove, this communist problem happened way before the USA got involved…

    my sources of this are anything but usa information…its radicly differant than anything v8 would get…which makes his apple pie statement a joke..a really lame joke, by someone who hasnt invested a fraction of what I have had to to understand what is going on about how America is perceived in the world and what its role in south america has been

    and, what is going on in Brazil , and how the far left runs their narritive, I also learn about opinions and attitudes they have about neighboring countries and world situations…the reason I am talking in here is because I have heard these things for decades…I have been faced with these kinds of accuasations over and over…I cant afford to be unknowledgable about what America has done…I am sure not saying I am an expert…but, for a guy who never graduated college, my knowledge is serious on the ground everyday immersion , in an intence way, about these issues …this isnt arm chair debating for me, its my everyday life

    Again, as someone who gave me great understanding of the Dogon, who I think about with every report about Mali…every one…I wonder how you feel about the fate of their culture at the hands of the invading Al Quaeda, who were cutting off hands and preventing people from listening to music ?

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  470. and, Kwamla, Im skepticle about the detailed evidence

    I mean, if i take that “global report” apart paragraph by paragraph, would you even really care or listen? I have brought in links, addressed quite a few other links brought in, my links got poo pood too…I mean, my position is not exactly as you have portrayed…I just havent jumped on board Abagonds flow about this…and, my views arnt parralel to sb , they stand on their own volition…because they are so unique in the sence, I did get a lot about American involvement in South America from sources most people on here havent listened too or investigated

    I get called out for seeming so anti commie, but,Sami is the heavy weight champ at bringing in referances to the cold war to scrutinise American government..he leaves me no choice to address cold war issues, he brings them up so much

    What seems to get lost in the shuffle here, is the real and ominous presence of extremist fundimental violent religious zealots that have taken the world hostage…and, I beleive the real correct way is to understand them the same way we perceive Dave Koerich, Tim Mcvei, the Olympic bomber, KKK violence in the name of Christian religion, and Christian fundimentalists who kill doctors who perform abortions…that is when it really makes sence to me…

    but I sure apreciete seeing these links people bring in, just to see exactly what people who opose the USA involvement in anything have to say about this specific incident…and, beleive me, beyond us, what ever is going to happen will happen and then we will really find out what is the reality and what was the bs..and I eagerly await to find out how these events evolve…just as I eagerly follow what is happening up in Venezuela on a regular basis, not just one debate on a blog…that is my everyday getting fed by the media down here, and it is an eye opener

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  471. resw77 says:

    Clearly economics is not your forte.

    Engineering undergraduate, followed by finance and economics, followed by equity and credit research on Wall Street, including coverage of the energy industry.

    You’re a kid. Your age is irrelevant.

    No, there isn’t an alternative to oil, gas and coal. There are only limited supplements, and that’s only for some applications.

    Solar is a loser mainly because the sun doesn’t shine at night. Wind is a loser because wind is intermittent.

    When it comes to transportation, there will NEVER be an electric airplane.

    Batteries are 200 years old. After two centuries of experimentation, research and development, batteries haven’t shown much improvement.

    Anyway, as I said, IF platinum and palladium were suddenly off the market, auto-makers would have to find a replacement. If no comparable replacement were available, the threat of a big slowdown in car manufacturing would lead to “temporary” rollbacks of emission standards. Or lay-offs, which no politician wants to find himself responsible for. Thus, the roll-backs would happen.

    As for Cote d’Ivoire, it appears Gbagbo is just another vicious corrupt thug running another broken-down African country with a median age of 20 and a life expectancy of less than 55.

    When it comes to chocolate, the cost of the cocoa beans amounts to a small part of the final selling price. If the price of beans doubled, it wouldn’t hurt Nestle or any other buyer in the least. Just like coffee beans. Prices paid to farmers vary with quality and demand.

    Meanwhile, the notion of “nationalizing” the industry is supposed to achieve two objectives: First, putting more money in Gbagbo’s pocket; Second, jacking up the price that buyers pay

    Obviously, Gbagbo, who I believe is alive but in jail, failed to create his own personal monopoly in the cocoa bean business.

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  472. “The articles about B-P and the Gulf Oil spill are opinion pieces. You would know that if you were to read the conclusions”—I would know that had I actually read the other articles, but considering I clearly stated I did not read anything other than the first link as can be seen here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/boko-haram/#comment-234990

    I will take your response as a childish retort to cover your ignorance.

    “They state their findings in terminology like this: Research SUGGESTS the dispersant MIGHT have contributed to”—Which article states that? As this will be my second time asking. The first link does not use those terminology in the way you have presented it or any other key ways I have changed it to suggest an opinion. It seems like you did not read the article or skimmed through it. Kind of like that book you swore up and down said what it did not. The second link was to a book and does not seem to show full access of it unless purchased. Of the summary it still does not say what you have suggested it should say to prove it as an opinion. The third is clear of any of it at all. So I have concluded that you never read either at all, but just drew a conclusion based on what you think it entails.

    Thirdly once you opened the door for opinions to be acceptable proof/evidence then you can not then decided that someone else opinion article is not proof or evidence. On that basis alone you are screwed because it was acceptable when you used it and felt it should be accepted so it now becomes acceptable for taleoflions. Besides he provided 2 legit sources (not opinion) to your 1. Laughable.

    “Engineering undergraduate, followed by finance and economics, followed by equity and credit research on Wall Street, including coverage of the energy industry.”—You can’t even post a link on a blog so I have to wonder if you are boasting more about what you wish you had here rather than what you have. Business must be slow in the energy field if you have time for all that.

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  473. abagond

    And here I was going to blame all his (sb32199) ignorance on his childish demeanor.

    Like


  474. @sb32199

    You clearly didn’t learn much, as is apparent by your responses.

    “No, there isn’t an alternative to oil, gas and coal.”

    Yes, in fact there are alternatives to fossil fuels as evidenced by existing technology that does not require them and the fact that some people do live without them. Nuclear, solar energy, wind, hydroelectricity are all in fact alternatives. Not really interested in your personal opinions about renewable energy sources, as they have little to do with fact.

    As I mentioned before, the reason we’re dependent on oil is b/c most of our economy’s aging infrastructure was made to use fossil fuels.

    “Anyway, as I said, IF platinum and palladium were suddenly off the market, auto-makers would have to find a replacement. ”

    And as I said, it would take much longer than you naively think to change regulations. Further, there is no comparable “replacement” for platinum and palladium (or other PGMs) as they work the best for our current technology. This is not debatable, unless you know of another resource that does an equally good job. Otherwise, any withholding of platinum/palladium would disrupt auto manufacturing and cause more air pollution from vehicles.

    “When it comes to chocolate, the cost of the cocoa beans amounts to a small part of the final selling price. ”

    When it comes to chocolate, cocoa is the key ingredient on which many European companies are dependent. Period. Again, you don’t have to like that chocolate producers and consumers depend on African cocoa farmers, but that’s just the way it is. Cheer up!

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  475. @sb32199:

    Actually. batteries are more than 2000 years old. Yes, they have been found in present day Irak, made out from clay potteries. Give out some 2 volts per battery.

    Like


  476. I must commend the last comments by Bulanik
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/boko-haram/#comment-234982
    for her reasoning insight to what to me was made to seem implausible by our resident white male commentors,really its an attempt to deflect criticism and insight from the american miltary policy via its covert agency,which of course they identify with.

    on general topic another interesting line of discussion would be the role of religion in pathologizing and increasing the poverty of africans while simultanously keeping subordinate african-black people in world affairs.

    One of the problems as i interept it is that with the emergence of white-albinic members of our species and thier current violent domination of our species ,there is the rise of scientific knowledge and the utter uselessness of religious interpretations.

    And yet most of humanity esp the black-brown/melemiated portion cling to the outmoded religious interpretations even when the images of themselves have been replaced by white europeans and thier stories cooped to serve thier (white european) interests.

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  477. Oh, so you are reffering to this white commentors notion that the cia sent out suicide bombers in Nigéria on LSD is ridiculous…and lets make it clear , I am that white commenter, Mbeti , a white commenter you have called racist because I think Noam Chomsky is full of bs , and I made a case why I dont think the phrase sub Sahara Africa is not racist in itself, its the intent of the user…

    Once again, forget about blackouts , just look at the actual sentance and how they use the term robotic…if you know anything about that drug , robotic is not a property…the notion , by the person who wrote that , not Bulanik , is naive , sensationalist and borders on obscene and should be met with scrutinisation and ridicule….its that ridiculous

    I see this ridiculousness played out all the time by the America haters down here, where in one of their in depth docus about them made by them , they say the USA had several thousands of Americans in the Peace Corp down in Brazil , trained and ready to fight against the Marxist armed , che inspired , in their words, revolution….

    In that docu , and , ive watched over and over , about 7 or 8 docus , all made by differant entities of the people who tried their failed che revolution, but this one also has a shot of some wing of the black panthers , all holding Mãos little Red Book ….this is where these docus , that are suposed to be giving their story , only passes information that passes the truth….and I didnt like the smell back then of anyone touting Mao , and , after learning more truth of the multi millions dying under him and his ideology, I sure dont like the smell now…

    Funny, the authors of wikileaks , Assange , and Manning , and Snowdon, who isnt Wikileaks , he just past info to them , are white albinic members of our species also , just like Chomsky…..I guess some people just cant really tell which white albinic members of our species are full of bs , or they are reluctant to call albinics out on their bs if they say something that fits their agenda

    Quite frankly , Mbetti, I get to see the America haters down here run their America is boogey man crap up the wazoo, with some of the most ridiculous lies and accuasations , most of them white albinacs , politics is a white albinic game in Brazil , just look at their congress , and many of these accuasations are obscene and deserves to be scrutinised and ridiculed, I see no reason to not scrutinise the white albinics ridiculous comments about the cia sending people out on suicide missions on LSD , notions Hilary Clinton said “founded” when she said “funded” , two radicly differant things, the notion it is the cia purposfully engineering Boko Haram , because they actualy gave money to a general in a country going through internal gut change in North Africa , who said he wants to get rid of Al Quaeda in his country, but somehow , weapons get cyphoned off to Boko Haram , if there is any truth to that , since Boko Haram in truth ,probably made contact with Al Quaeda in Mali, since it is beyond doubt they were there…these are general notions implied by the links of several commenters here, with good intentions Im sure, but Im laying into their sources

    Yes ,these white albinic sousces ought to be seriously scrutinised, along with non white people in Turkey, if they were non white , notions the Syria conflict was engineered by the cia for sex slaves for Nato….this notion about Syria is so blatently in denial it deserves ridicule , because it is gross and obscene

    And , its amazing , in the puposeful haze and fog spread by these notions, we cant take an honest look at the real face of fundimental extremist religious violence that is plaguing many African countries right now , in the present, that needs to be confronted on its terms , not the haze of America is the boogey man, a haze I recognise only too well having been exposed to it big time close to thirty years…I recognise the smell only too well,

    Like


  478. The following is shocking and terrible but it needs to be known and the reality exposed for what it is. What is going on in Nigeria with so called “Boko Haram terrorists” right now is no joke. These people have been brainwashed or put into a mind altered state to believe in what they are doing,,, Its so obvious something or group is orchestrating this. For the sole purpose of causing mayhem and civil war in Nigeria/Africa.

    As these graphic scenes show. Which so called extreme Islamic fundamentalist terrorist is going to willing wait in turn then lay down and submit to having their throat cut? This Is NOT normal human behaviour? Is it?

    Shocking Video Of Soldiers Slaughtering Boko Haram Suspects [WARNING]

    Read more: http://newsrescue.com/shocking-video-soldiers-slaughtering-boko-haram-suspects-warning/#ixzz33UHPhzDA

    “…The countenance and composure of the suspects as they submit for slaughter is discomforting. These suspects as we assume they are, appear to have been thoroughly brainwashed to feel they will be delivered to heaven for harming, oppressing and killing innocent Muslims and Christians…”

    Shocking Video Of Soldiers Slaughtering Boko Haram Suspects [WARNING]

    Like


  479. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/03/generals-boko-haram_n_5436272.html

    there is nothing in the article Kwamla brought in that indicates any involvement of the cia in orchestrating Boko Haram…it just speaks to the complexity of the situation in Nigeria, and that is why Hilary Clinton didnt jumpt to put them on a terrorist list, but , when they were proven to have hooked up with Al Quaeda, then the USA jumped on board…there is no validity to this screaming of why did Hiliary Clinton protect Boko Haram…these are fairy tales

    the link up above is reality and only speaks to the complexity of the situation in Nigeria…where half the army is Islam, and in some of those ranks are actual colaborators and actual people who armed Boko Haram

    these fairy tales are weak attempts to avoid addressing what is really happening…to imply this is some kind of railroading these flawed links, calling them anti American is ridiculous when the founder of wiki leaks , Assange is an assumed anti American…and , the three people on here who didnt really even read what the other was bringing in , or my responce to it, are just bringing in a flawed , biased, fantacy land peice of crap written by an organisation with an assumed anti American bias

    and, everything that has been brought in here, that tries to railroad what is happening in Nigeria as a cia orchestrated Boko Haram, is incredibly weak , mis informed and I have answered every step…just bring in one quote from the actual cia links that hooks them up with Boko Haram…there is nothing…its all flakey speculation

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  480. How about some just basic facts from wikipedia, like they started their heavy violence in about 2009, so by the time they hooked up with al quaeda, the usa acted accordingly to then put them on the terrorist list:

    “Goodluck Jonathan in May 2014 claimed that Boko Haram attacks have left at least 12,000 people dead and 8,000 people crippled

    On November 13, 2013 the United States government designated the group a terrorist organization. On 22 May 2014, the United Nations Security Council added Boko Haram to its list of designated al-Qaeda entities, bringing “funding, travel and weapons sanctions” against the terrorist group.[27][28]

    The group conducted its operations more or less peacefully during the first seven years of its existence[6] (with an exception of some skirmishes in Kannama in 2004).[73] That changed in 2009 when the Nigerian government launched an investigation into the group’s activities following reports that its members were arming themselves.[78] Prior to that the government reportedly repeatedly ignored warnings about the increasingly militant character of the organization, including that of a military officer

    Nigeria’s former National Security Adviser, General Owoye Andrew Azazi, has been working with other African governments, European and Middle Eastern governments, and the U.S. government to build cooperation against Boko Haram. He met in 2010 with CIA Director Leon Panetta, and in 2011 with AFRICOM Commander General Ham, and other U.S. officials, and was in the United States when the congressional panel was preparing its report on Boko Haram. He participated in a CIA conference at about the same time.[157] After the Christmas 2011 bombings carried out by Boko Haram, US President Barack Obama’s office issued a statement that confirmed that the US and Nigeria were cooperating against the group.[158]

    Funding sources for Boko Haram are not certain, but is believed to be partially funded by bank robberies[17][161][162] and by other Islamist groups. In February 2012, recently arrested officials revealed that “while the organization initially relied on donations from members, its links with Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, AQIM, opened it up to more funding from groups in Saudi Arabia and the UK”. ”

    the link I brought in above, just sheds more light on where some funding is definitly comeing from now…Islamic supporters in the Nigerian military of Boko Harem…that only speaks to the great complexity that is going on in Nigeria…fairy tales of cia orchestration really looks silly …and brings down the leval of discusion on this…

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  481. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/05/boko-haram-massacre_n_5450924.html

    Here is todays headline in the huffingtonpost , it sais Boko Haram desses up in Nigerian army clothes to fool the people , and then slaughtered them

    The actual reality on the ground , with fifty percent of the army Muslim, and some generais actualy on trial now for helping arm Boko Haram , speaks to the reality on the ground and its complexity much more than fairy tales from Wikileaks

    Like


  482. @ Kwamla

    That execution was part of ambush in Biu, in Borno, Northeast Nigeria.
    When since have the use of drugs become so unusual in such fighting?

    It seems to me, that if a news report doesn’t detail “links” and gets explicit about underlying causes, it doesn’t mean it worthless, or a fairy tale, because unless there is a smokin’ gun, it should be dismissed and trivialised.
    Smokin’ gun exclusives are rare, and you can bet even if they are, the machinery exists to discredit it or wipe out the people who write, broadcast or publish… Much news is manufactured.

    Just the other day, someone mentioned that in the 19th century the British thought that famines in India had nothing to do with Social Darwinism.
    Atthough Social Darwinism was their creation and practice.
    Conservative estimates put the death toll in India (caused by the British) at 30 million-plus, but research suggests 60 million people died. At the time, the powerful laughed in scepticism, in ridicule, and in pity.
    Where was the proof? Don’t insult our intelligence with such stories! it went.
    Those who saw it for what it was were told to shut up or made to look “silly”. Because sensible people don’t believe that kind of fiction.

    My own feeling is that we must not only accept standard news media.
    To believe it is an effort to remain at a level of naivete and, also intimidated.
    To be intimidated is part of what the media does.

    When videos of Boko Haram leader, Abubakar Shekau, were shown of him boasting and rambling, even CNN *speculated* he was under the influence…
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/08/world/africa/boko-haram-leader-plan/

    Nigerian news reports that drugs and syringes are a standard find in abandoned camps used by Boko Haram, along with other chemicals required for the production of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs).

    Drugs are also liberally used on the US military personnel. There’s a long history of narcotic use by many nations and many conflicts — even before the US existed.
    These days, in the US it’s said that $2.7 billion worth was spent on administering antidepressants alone on the military sector of the population, in the decade after 9/11…. http://www.ibtimes.com/medicating-our-troops-oblivion-prescription-drugs-said-be-endangering-us-soldiers-1572217)

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  483. And so this is suposed to be some justification for a Wikileaks inspired article in Globo Research to ramble on about the cia sending people out on suicide bomb missions on LSD ? What are people trying to cover up or not want to face gynoflecting so hard defending a ridiculous statement about the cia giving suicide bombers LSD ? I mean give it up already…

    That was just one ridiculous flaw in that report , out of many flaws and blatent speculations….

    In their main points they say the USA giving aid to Saudi Arabia was giving money to Boko Haram…another ridiculous association…

    In fact , the actual cia links that v8 brought in had absolutly no hook up with Boko Haram , they were all acurate observations , Global Research then goes on a huge speculation web weaving that includes no actual proof and absurd story telling….give me one valid cia leak stating a Boko Haram hookup…just one

    The general that Kwamla brought in with the Randy Short commentary , was actualy trying to rid his country of Al Quaeda elements and you wonder why the USA might give him money ? The association of the militant groups suposadly giving aid to Boko Haram , is as flakey as making aid to Saudi Arabia a way the USA is funding Boko Haram

    Then throw in the Hilary Clinton vídeo where when she sais “funded”, is turned into “founded”…..people just dont want to face the fact we gave them stingers, trained them how to use them and gave them money, we didnt invent Al Queada or the Talaban, this is the most shallow kind of bottom feeding association logic , it is painfully hilarious to watch

    If we are to beleive some of the statements we see here , the USA and the cia orchestrated the Lybian , Tunisian, Egytian , Syrian etc internal gut changing of each of these countries and every extremist fundimentalist Islamic attack in any country in Africa is a cia plot to disrupt that country…

    Some people just cant look at the real truth , they have to hide it bringing in the America boogeyman…..this is exactly what gets played out in South America , and I can smell that turd a mile away

    What is really clear is the Islamic world in the Middle East and North Africa , is imploding at a rate so fast , if you are outside , you cant even keep up , nor understand what is happening or what it really means….they are coming to grips with their issues on their terms , and that includes dealing with fundimental fanatics…and people making the cia orchestrating everything comments dont want to get there is huge Islamic co operation and co ordinating with the USA , to fight these fanatics

    But that just doesnt fit the story of the commentors who will do backflips to try to implicate the cia is orchestrating all this , the Kenya Mall massacre also…

    The question is , what are they trying to hide ? Why are they so interested in making the cia as the orchestrator of everything? To such a ridículas degree they even try to implicate the Syrian conflict was orchestrated by the cia and nato for sex slaves

    The real funny thing is , people drop these turds, and you wade in , read the long boring ponderous long winded gas from the links , see they are extremly flawed , prove them ridiculous, but they never admit to the folly….they just wait for the next implication to drop more turds

    One thing I learned down here, where concervative republicans hide and fear monger you , the far left will lie and guilt trip you….the blatent lies, hypocracies, half truths and guilt tripping I have seen down here was an enormous lesson just how far American haters have no shame putting their feet deep into their mouthes….I hate both extremes…far left and right bs

    Like


  484. Boko Haram Kidnaps More Girls in Nigeria

    Abductions Near Town Where Students Were Grabbed Reflect Lack of Protection

    By Drew Hinshaw
    June 9, 2014

    ACCRA, Ghana—Nigeria’s Islamist insurgency on Monday kidnapped some 20 girls just miles from a small town where the group abducted several hundred schoolgirls in April, local officials said, in an attack that exposed the military’s absence in an area the president pledged to protect.

    The village of Garkin Fulani was preparing for its weekly market early Monday when Boko Haram fighters pulled up in a tractor trailer and began pulling young girls into the truck, said Adu Ibrahim, the area’s chairman for a vigilante group called the Civilian Joint Task Force.

    Nigerian President Vows ‘End’ to Boko Haram Militants (5/8/14)
    Insurgency Leader Says He Has Taken Abducted Girls as Slaves (5/5/14)
    Fate of Nigerian Schoolgirls Unknown (4/17/14)

    The village straddles the same dirt road that leads to Chibok, a small and remote town where Boko Haram kidnapped 276 schoolgirls in April. The area is the heartland of the insurgency, which has flourished over the past five years despite government efforts to suppress it.

    The attack was the latest reminder of how vulnerable the northeastern corner of Nigeria has become, despite President Goodluck Jonathan’s declarations of war against Boko Haram. The country’s military was nowhere to be seen during the hourslong raid, said a member of the state government there.

    Instead, the job of preventing more kidnappings has fallen to a group of vigilantes who say they have been left with only hunting rifles, fashioned from car parts and scraps of wood, to go up against the rocket launchers and heavy machine guns of Boko Haram.

    The Nigerian government couldn’t be reached to comment about Monday’s incident, but it has maintained that its military is performing valiantly.

    Like


  485. @ B.R.

    I see you ignore the CIA operatives, like Khalifa Haftar, who aided in overthrowing the Libyan gov’t. If that’s not evidence of CIA’s involvement in political subversion, then what is?

    @sb32199

    So what’s the tally? A few hundred now?

    Over 50,000 kids are abducted by strangers in the US each year…can’t blame that on Islamic fundamentalists…

    Like


  486. @ SB/asplund

    Are you slow? Post the link and stop posting full articles. Either way it is not disproving what others have already said which makes you look even more dumb.

    Like


  487. Boko Haram is CIA. The plan is to steal the resources of Africa, keep the Black population down and under control. Period.

    Stop arguing this. Those who disagree do not know history. Period. Just because the white house has a Black puppet in it doesn’t mean that we’re being told the truth. White Supremacists, who run this planet (shout out to Neely Fuller) DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN WHITES.

    But Europe and America are both broke; trying to maintain empires through force. They’re weakening so they try to make up problems. Like the shootings that keep happening. Nothing but actors. Wake up. You think they’re actually trying to rescue Black women in AFRICA!?

    You know how much it costs to fill up an aircraft with JP-8 (jet fuel)? To provide weapons? Pay mercenaries–I mean—white terrorists—er…”soldiers” for hazardous duty? Has anyone considered this?

    I’m supposed to believe that a bunch of Africans from (as Mr. Fuller said) what you might call “villages”, can muster up the wherewithal to get fresh AKs and ammunition, Jeeps, uniforms, boots and haircuts…

    While only asking for $12 per head? Please. Any Black person who falls for this is stupid or a traitor. It has to be one of the two. It doesn’t take no rocket scientist or political scientist to figure that out.

    If this comment it deleted or not posted, I will continue to post it.

    Like


  488. And don’t be sitting up here saying that the CIA isn’t behind it. Same stuff they did in every country full of Brown-skinned people rich in minerals.

    Might as well believe that Black people imported crack cocaine, guns, and everything else into our neighborhoods. Might as well say we decided to turn our culture into the crap that it is now.

    Like


  489. resw77 says:

    Over 50,000 kids are abducted by strangers in the US each year…

    Ahhh, no. That’s total nonsense. Moreover, when abductions of kids do occur, the vast majority of abductions are committed by a parent. Usually there’s a custody battle underway or a dispute that was not resolved to the satisfaction of one parent.

    If you want to claim that 50,000 kids run away every year, well, that’s probably true. And if you want to claim that an even greater number are abandoned by one parent or the other — but usually the father — then again, the claim would stand.

    Then again, your claim depends on what you mean by “abducted.”

    Like


  490. Boko Haram is, again, the local — Nigerian — manifestation of the Islamic illness. Why does the Islamic ideology appeal so greatly in Africa? The continent is reaching a tipping point. It’s probably past the tipping point. For sure Nigeria is a goner.

    Like


  491. sb32199

    “If you want to claim that 50,000 kids run away every year, well, that’s probably true.”—“Abduction” is not defined as a person running away and if you were more aware of your government reporting then you would know that “In 1999, more than 50,000 children and adolescents were taken by nonfamily members by physical force or coercion for at least one hour.”

    http://crime.about.com/od/stats/f/faqkids.htm

    http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/nismart2_overview.pdf

    Like


  492. rews77

    yawn, yawn yawn yawn…i answered exactly about hafter, and brought in a link from a Canada paper that said he stated he was ridding Al Quaeda elements from his country and that is why the cia is supporting him , why not?..if weapons were cyphoned off for something else, the cia has nothing to do with that..

    Im tired of this, you too average bee with your average analysis..like you really know what is happening or really know history, you dont know squat about what is happening where i live now…or just make up any fairy tale you want, and just call me an albino for thinking its lame

    this is getting ridiculous, ridiculous and amateur , low leval shallow discusion on American foreigh policy and relating to Boko Haram

    I answer the same flawed link three times, brought in by three differant people , indepentent of each other, with out seeing I already addressed it, point out just some of the blatent flaws, i answered the Clinton link, really lame, an answer the Hafter referance and the tired Randy Short statement

    I mean something has to be done better than any of that to convince me

    i mean bring in one cia link that directly implicates them with Boko Haram, every statement in the v8 link that is directly attributed to a leak, has no incriminating evidence, its all observations…thinking that links them is bs

    Sharina I saw that article in Huff, i dont have it here in front of me, but its true, but, that really isnt as bad as the thousands of people they have actualy slaughtered…the Islamic violent fundimentalist extremists are a problem in many countries in Africa, trying to write it off as just the cia orchestrating everything is embarrasingly naive or exremly agendised…and shows a tremendous unwillingness to look at what is really going on, and not just Africa, all over the world, Pakastan Karachi airport, included…people can sleep on this or lie about it or sluff over it and not face it all they want, Im glad Im not ..im glad millions of other people , Islamic included are not and are standing up to this crud…more power to anyone standing up to this…I dont care if the usa doesnt in any situation, im just glad people are all over the world, this fundamentalism in any religion that resorts to violence is a pariah

    Like


  493. Sharina,

    Evidently, you did not read or do not understand the two articles about abductions you linked to your post.

    Like


  494. sb32199

    “Evidently, you did not read or do not understand the two articles about abductions you linked to your post.”—In other words “Sb32199/Asplund was not aware of those reports and did not even bother to read them because he frankly did not understand them, but lets just claim someone else does not “does not understand” them yet again to get off the hook for the lack of knowledge and stupidity displayed by sb/as.”

    Like


  495. B.R.

    “Sharina I saw that article in Huff, i dont have it here in front of me, but its true, but, that really isnt as bad as the thousands of people they have actualy slaughtered…”—I did not say the article was not true or was a lie in some way so I am unsure what you mean here. Either way the article still is not disproving what others in here have said.

    Like


  496. @sb32199

    “Ahhh, no. That’s total nonsense. Moreover, when abductions of kids do occur, the vast majority of abductions are committed by a parent. ”

    I excluded the appx. 200,000 kids kidnapped by family in the US each year. But yes, 50,000 are kidnapped by STRANGERS, as Sharina correctly pointed out, not “abandoned” by parents. See DOJ/FBI statistics if you doubt.

    “Why does the Islamic ideology appeal so greatly in Africa?”

    Newsflash: Islam is present everywhere, but mostly in Asia, and has existed in Africa for over 1,000 years. Just like Islam has existed in Europe for over 1,000 years.

    @B.R.

    The fact is that Haftar was a paid CIA employee who overthrew a government. This is used as a clear example of CIA’s subversive actions geared toward regime change.

    The “link from a Canada paper ” is an OPINION piece by military magazine writer. Surely not even you would take that as supportive evidence.

    Like


  497. Reported in today’s New York Times:

    Some of Nigeria’s Kidnapped Schoolgirls May Never Return-Former President

    By REUTERS JUNE 13, 2014

    ABUJA — Nigeria’s former president Olusegun Obasanjo told media some of the schoolgirls kidnapped by militant group Boko Haram in April may never return, in the most pessimistic comments yet on their fate from a member of the political elite.

    Obasanjo said President Goodluck Jonathan’s administration had taken too long to respond to the mass abduction. Once Jonathan’s mentor and one of his strongest political allies, Obasanjo turned against him in December.

    “I believe that some of them will never return. We will still be hearing about them many years from now,” Obasanjo told the BBC’s Hausa-language radio service on Thursday, according to a translation of the interview.

    Nigeria is on the road to becoming yet another failed Islamic theocratic state. The incompetence and weakness of the current leadership is all that Boko Haram and other Islamists need for the hijacking of the oil-rich nation that should be the Norway of Africa.

    Like


  498. resw77,

    The “definition” of kidnapping was loosened to the point of absurdity for the purpose of making some kind of unimportant point. To claim in encompasses people held “for an hour” suggests that security guards grabbing shoplifters in stores and putting them in a room for questioning is an example of a kidnapping.

    As for Islam, yeah, it’s present “everywhere”, though there’s varying forms of presence. Like the Iraqi/Syrian form vs the form seen in the US.

    It’s always a matter of numbers and percentages. When a tipping point is reached, countries go downhill in an Islamic death spiral, which is happening in sub-Sahara Africa.

    Meanwhile, it looks as though Islamic thugs are going to destroy the opportunity for some freedom and prosperity in Iraq. The country had been on an upward trajectory that was good for almost all Iraqi citizens. But how it faces a descent into the usual backwardation that Islamic theocracies always create.

    Like


  499. …yeah,except, Rews77, I actualy saw it in another place also and i just couldnt find that link again , so that is two sources confirming the guy was trying to rid Al Queada influences in his country and that sounds logical that the cia would give him money….that in no way ties in the usa with creating and orchestrating Boko Harem..and , I cant really see how you would come to that conclusion with the absolutly flimsy evidence that is passing here as fact that the usa is orchestrating Boko Haram, its one of the most weak cop out blaming the cia as Ive seen anywhere and Ive seen a lot of the bs

    regime change is differant than cia orchestrating Boko Haram, and , I dont think the USA really could have made a differance, they got to all these situations late and have shown they dont understand fundimental Islamic extremists mentality in the first place…the cia has done regime change before, but, orchestrate Boko Haram? show me the real hard evidence, because all i see here is flimsy

    Just bring in one official cia memo from these leaks that actualy ties them in with Boko Haram, not these ridiculous notions that because they supported someone else and then some money ends up in some other group through some third party connected with this other someone else that means the cia is supporting and orchestrating everything….my gosh, the absolute chaos that is ringing through entire countries in North Africa and the middle east right now , is so messy and internal its just mind boggling the blaming of the cia as orchestrating it all…

    Just amazing you give credit to a slease like Assange..if you can see through the absolute weak notions they are saying with the Canadian paper , why are you so gullible with Assange ? why are you so quick to buy into that? why are you so quick to think Hilary said “founded” and not “funded”…

    I dont trust arguments that just blame the cia for orchestrating everything when the evidence is flimsy and they just cant acknowledge all the other aspects and parties involved

    I tell you what, Sharina, you believe anything you want…I am very comfortable with what I beleive based on the absolute reality high education I have at listening to bs about America and the cia to cover up the truth I have had to hear for the last 30 years, which has helped me to see right though it…I wouldnt trade my education for anything…

    Like


  500. @sb32199

    The FBI classifies the abduction of a child by a stranger after gathering evidence to substantiate such classification. So your extreme example of a security guard detaining a suspected shoplifter would not fit under FBI’s “non-family child abduction” classification.

    On Islam, unless you blame Christianity for the terrorism committed by people like Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik and/or the civil unrest in Christian countries like Ukraine, then it’s highly hypocritical for you to blame Islam for the terrorism and civil wars in Islamic regions in Africa.

    @B.R.

    You’re still arguing about an opinion made by some military guy, and this other mystery article you mentioned probably doesn’t exist. The fact is, and it’s no secret, the CIA employs people for subversive acts geared toward regime change throughout the world, and has done so for many years.

    Like


  501. B.R.

    “I tell you what, Sharina, you believe anything you want”—Sorry if you believe you have the authority to tell me what to believe. I decided to believe what I want a long time ago, but those articles are only showing that extremist are killing and torturing people. They are not proving or disproving that the CIA is not involved.

    ” am very comfortable with what I beleive based on the absolute reality high education I have at listening to bs about America and the cia to cover up the truth I have had to hear for the last 30 years, which has helped me to see right though it…I wouldnt trade my education for anything…”—That is not education that is experience and you just sound paranoid at the moment. You may have experience with certain information but you don’t have proof or evidence so your whole point is moot. Going on an emotional rant about what you believe holds about as much weight as air to me.

    Like


  502. the proof people are offering up here has the consitancy of diarria…its about as weak accuasation as ive ever seen..i didnt tell you what you can beleive, Sharina…i said go ahead and beleive anything you want, that isnt permision

    rew77 , the fact the usa has been involved in regime change doesnt have one iota of truth to Boko Haram..is that your logic? that is really tired…the cia did it some place else so they did this time…

    why dont you do the real research about some of those regime changes and see who some of the other players were, like in Iran with the Shah

    the truth is, since world war 1, there has been a lot of regime change througout the world..,in world war 2, half of europe had each countries internal guts changed and changed back…atributing regime change to just the cia is extremly naive

    if i find the other link, that is really going to change you? I dont find these things out for you, I find them out for myself to just say, more bs coming down the pike and the inability to really face what is involved

    id day there is much more inability to find out is involved in the truth of these situations than the actual cia orchestrating regime change

    sitting in america from your living room is a pretty limited place to really understand what is happening in troubled places…i live in a place that has had trouble…i learn a whole lot, its more than experiance, its the total education, im not just experiancing, im watching every tid bit of information out there to find out the truth…after what ive learned, i can smell an anti american rhetorical dogmad turd from a mile away

    the cia has been the boogey man for a lot of people these days, who are either hiding something or being naive

    Like


  503. B.R.

    “i said go ahead and beleive anything you want, that isnt permision.” —The statement is pointless to tell me to believe what I want as if I need your permission to. Especially when it is obvious that I already do. So please by all means tell me your point in the statement if not to give me some type of permission or go ahead?

    Like


  504. @Average Bee:

    The first thing I thought after hearing about that supposed kidnapping of 200 schoolgirls in Nigeria was, “What does America care about 200 black schoolgirls, Nigerian or otherwise?” The answer is, “Nothing, that’s what.” For that reason this whole incident simply didn’t pass the ‘Smell Test’. The urgency and attention given to it made no sense, and I see that now, on June 14, we’re no longer hearing much news about the girls or Boko Haram. Just ask yourself, how many times a year the American media bothers to report ANY news concerning Africa or African affairs, especially something like this which asks Americans to care about some black girls thousands of miles away.

    Like


  505. @Bulanik

    “You want to say this is about religion and religiosity. It is far more than this.

    You classed the whole of the the Muslim World, or non-Christian non-Western peoples, as socially and intellectually backward.
    Not only do you NOT question that, you see no reason why you should learn anything about those peoples or places that would not confirm your sense of superiority over them.

    It’s no surprise then, that you don’t understand, and don’t WANT to understand anything Kwamla or I have tried to say.”

    “You say: I am not arguing Western superiority. I am not part of this Western propaganda war.

    Then, you say: these non-Western people cannot advance if they don’t become like the Western. They are like cave-men.

    Have you thought that you very much a product of your own culture?”

    -No.

    -This is about religion, not region. Religious fanatics in the West are just as primitive thinking as the fanatics in the Middle East.

    -I highly suspect that you were attempting to turn this argument into one of region, which subsequently would have turned into an argument of culture, and finally into one of race.

    -Both Islam and Christianity are highly misogynistic (a prime example of the social backwardness I mentioned before). Let me give you some bible verses concerning the role of women (I advise following along with an actual bible if you have one):

    1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

    1 Corinthians 14:34-35 As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church

    1 Timothy 11-15 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

    There’s more, but I think I’ve made my point. Just imagine if the Christian West was this fundamental; if governments turned these words into actual policy. The Taliban have attacked girls who want nothing, but to learn, women aren’t allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, as I type fundamentalist in Iraq are fighting to install a Sharia law government that will keep women in the house for “modesty reasons.” How is any of that socially progressive???

    btw sorry for the late reply. Hopefully you see this.

    Like


  506. @B.R.

    “the fact the usa has been involved in regime change doesnt have one iota of truth to Boko Haram..is that your logic? ”

    No, and in fact, I said “Bulanik’s link is PROBABLY right about who’s involved, the U.S…”

    I examine all facts including the fact that the US military and CIA currently have covert operations in Nigeria, which started in 2002 or the same year Boko Haram was founded. And a few terror attacks later, AFRICOM was born and military presence there keeps growing. While this obviously does not prove the US created or supports Boko Haram, and I never claimed it did, it definitely shows the US has found a reason in Boko Haram to keep its military and CIA presence in Nigeria (and Chad).

    You are free to believe whatever nonsense you want about the laughably benevolent intentions of the US gov’t, but don’t lecture us about what it’s not doing in Nigeria, b/c you haven’t brought one fact to the table about the subject. You’re doing far more speculating than anyone else.

    You’re also in no position to lecture me about where I’m from or where I’m sitting, as you absolutely know nothing about either.

    Like


  507. resw77,

    Something tells me the FBI doesn’t spend a lot of time assessing or gathering details for cases involving young people held captive for less than an hour. Sooo, as I said, the definition is pretty much void on the basis of vagueness.

    As for Islam and terror vs Christianity and terror, ah, no your claim that Tim McVeigh and Anders Brevik are Christian theocratic terrorists who are to Christianity what Islamists are to Islam, no, that idea holds no water at all.

    McVeigh professed no religion, though he was raised in a Christian setting. Brevik, ah, sorry, but he was a lone nut with a gun. Meanwhile, neither committed their crimes while yelling Jesus is Great.

    Have you missed the current slaughter underway in Syria and Iraq? Or the Islamists killing people in Africa? There are plenty of videos of muslim prisoners being shot in the head by muslim captors as they’re kneeling on the ground, blindfolded, with their hands tied behind their backs.

    There are videos of muslims firing AK-47s from moving cars at muslims in other moving cars who are fleeing cities in Iraq. A slaughter is underway, not unlike the slaughter in Rwanda.

    I watched one video of a beheading. The victim was alive when his killer began to cut, and after the knife severed the spinal column and the head was lifted up, for several seconds the heart continued to pump, sending blood up from the chest to what had been the neck, and from there it was squirting out from the carotid artery. There were several more videos of beheadings, but watching one was enough.

    Thousands of murderous Islamists are slaughtering thousands of muslims, and the killers have loads of vigorous support from competing factions of the population. Thousands of them, unlike McVeigh and Brevik, two nuts who were universally condemned for their horrifying crimes.

    Like


  508. sb32199

    Something tells me you spend a lot of time assessing or gathering details for anything.

    Like


  509. Correction Something tells me you don’t spend a lot of time assessing or gathering details for

    Like


  510. @ sb

    According to the definition of a child non family abduction, it is defined as a non-family perpetrator takes a child by the use of physical force or threat or detains a child for at least 1 hour in an isolated place without lawful authority.

    So the ridiculous example of a security guard would not apply as they would have lawful authority to do such. It is almost sad watching you argue this down as if you can weasel your way out of your many inaccuracy, but then again it is still entertainment.

    Like


  511. Rews77….you havent studied the tragectory of Boko Haram …their major push towards violence was in 2009 , and when they hooked up with Al Queada is when the USA condemned them….

    With the complexity in Nigéria , the fact some government troops were brutal , it compounded the confusion , and there was no indication Boko Haram would hook up with Al Quaeda and go radicly violent…

    Which addresses the screaming of why Hilary Clinton didnt immediatly condemn them …if the violence started in 2009 , you can track this on Wikipédia,it would take a minute for it to escalate enough , amid the general confusion in Nigeria anyway , to perceive this was going to be a big problem, and , of course , hook up with Al Queada would be the reason, that is who the USA is focused on

    Oh, I didnt bring in any facts ? I brought in articles saying various generais in Nigéria are on trial right now for supporting Boko Haram , and that there are complex issues in Nigéria because half the army is Islamic….of course my referances to a Canadian article and two by congress in the usa are poo pood, there just couldnt be any factual information in there compared to suicide bombing missions on LSD sponcered by the cia in the Global Report comic book….and by the way , where is the one fact of any cia memo of all the leaks Assange got from Manning or Snowden that shows a hook up with Boko Haram…? for someone accusing me if not bringing in facts , you come up real short and factles,rews

    But you call that comic book crap link fact ? At this point Rews77 , you are full of bs ..where ever you are from…a d Im not saying the cia isnt in Nigeria , they obviously are , they just arnt orchestrating Boko Haram

    You actualy give a punk like Assange more credit than any of the articles I brought in , and claim I havent brought in facts ? Suk on a lemon , rews,

    You are intellectualy dishonest and argue in bad faith

    This is not a discusion , its a joke , avoiding talking about the wave of fundimentalist Islamic militant violence that is plaguing the countries below North Africa , bringing in silly notions the cia is orchestrating everything

    Like


  512. @sb32199

    To call McVeigh and Brevik “nuts” but to call killers in Syria, etc. “Muslims” wonderfully illustrates your hypocrisy. Thank you.

    Breivik was found by the court to be sane, so he was not a “nut,” but an evil person like anyone else who inflicts harm on innocent people. He also stated, “I consider myself to be 100 percent Christian” and wrote extensively about Christianity in his manifesto.

    The court also ruled McVeigh sane. He was raised Catholic and influenced by the Turner Diaries which is used by followers of the Christian Identity movement.

    Regardless what images you have seen, only about 8,000 people were killed in Iraq last year, compared to 31,000 in Mexico, a heavily Catholic country. Abagond has a great article showing that Islamic countries are generally less violent than western (Christian) countries.

    Like


  513. @B.R.

    “you havent studied the tragectory of Boko Haram”

    I obviously do, as I’ve already mentioned it was founded the same year US instituted a military/”counterintelligence” presence in Nigeria, and contrary to your opinion, the first Boko Haram attacks were in 2004, the same year the US launched Cooperative Security Locations and Forward Operating Sites in the region. I also know that Boko Haram killed over 1000 people before the State Dept. finally designated it a terrorist org, and only after much coersion. How about those for facts?

    “Oh, I didnt bring in any facts ?”

    No, not one relevant fact to prove your speculative argument that the US is not involved in this conflict. You don’t know, just like anyone else, the extent of US involvement.

    “Im not saying the cia isnt in Nigeria , they obviously are , they just arnt orchestrating Boko Haram”

    The US military and CIA have operatives in Nigeria, it’s a fact, and I never said the US is “orchestrating Boko Haram.” Perhaps you’re confusing me with someone else. But it’s just as naive for you to say so definitively that the US is not involved, especially in the absence of proof.

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  514. Boko Haram
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Boko Harām
    Congregation of the Peoples of Tradition for Proselytism and Jihad
    Participant in the Nigerian Sharia conflict

    Logo
    Active 2002–present
    Ideology Salafist Jihadism
    Islamic fundamentalism
    Islamism
    anti-Western
    anti-Christian
    Leaders Abubakar Shekau[1]
    Dan Hajia (in custody)
    Abba †
    Abatcha Flatari †
    Momodu Bama †
    Mohammed Yusuf †
    Area of
    operations
    Northern Nigeria, Northern Cameroon, Southern Niger, Chad
    Allies Ansaru
    Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb
    Opponents Nigeria
    Civilian Joint Task Force (CJTF)
    Benin
    Cameroon
    Chad
    Niger
    United States
    United Kingdom
    Canada
    France
    Singapore
    Battles
    and wars
    Nigerian Sharia conflict
    2009 Nigerian sectarian violence
    [show] v t e
    Islamist insurgency in Nigeria

    Nigerian states where Boko Harām operates and that implement some form of sharia law (in green)

    Nigerian states where Boko Harām has staged attacks
    The Congregation of the People of Tradition for Proselytism and Jihad (Jama’atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda’awati Wal-Jihad),[2][3] known by its Hausa name Boko Harām (pronounced [bōːkòː hàrâm]; figuratively meaning “Western education is sin”),[4][5] is a terrorist organization based in northeastern Nigeria,[6] north Cameroon and Niger.[7][8][9