
Rubin Stacey, lynched victim, hanging from a tree, surrounded by onlookers, including girls, Fort Lauderdale, Florida. (July 19, 1935)
There should be a White History Month in America. That way we can teach all about the things White Americans have done in history, like:
- Cherokee Trail of Tears
- Japanese American internment
- Philippine-American War
- Jim Crow
- The genocide of Native Americans
- Transatlantic slave trade
- The Middle Passage
- The history of White American racism
- Black Codes
- Slave patrols
- Ku Klux Klan
- NYPD
- The War on Drugs
- Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
- How white racism grew out of slavery and genocide
- How whites still benefit from slavery and genocide
- White anti-racism
- The Southern strategy
- The rape of black slave women
- CORE
- Madison Grant
- The Indian Wars
- Human zoos
- How the Jews became white
- White flight
- Redlining
- Proposition 14
- Homestead Act
- Tulsa Riots
- Rosewood massacre
- Tuskegee Experiment
- Lynching
- Hollywood stereotypes
- Indian Appropriations Acts
- Immigration Act of 1924
- Sundown towns
- Chinese Exclusion Act
- Emmett Till
- Vincent Chin
- Islamophobia
- Indian boarding schools
- King Philip’s War
- Bacon’s Rebellion
- American slavery compared to Arab, Roman and Latin American slavery
- History of the gun
- History of the police
- History of prisons
- History of white suburbia
- Lincoln’s racism and anti-racism
- George Wallace
- Fox News
- Tea Party
- Cointelpro
- Real estate steering
- School tracking
- Mass incarceration of black men
- Boston school busing riots
And so on. No fear of running out of topics: there is more than one a day! I am sure my commenters can come up with tons more, probably some big ones that are not coming to mind at the moment. I did not list things that often do get covered in history class in America, however poorly, like Lincoln or Reconstruction.
White History Month should be in November, the same month as Thanksgiving, the holiday which observes the supposed beginning of White America.
Schoolchildren can do reports on:
- John Brown (required)
- Andrew Goodman
- Michael Schwerner
- Thaddeus Stevens
- Jim Zwerg
- William Lloyd Garrison
Suggested reading of White American authors:
Howard Zinn: “A People’s History of the United States (P.S.)” (2010)
James W. Loewen: ”Lies My Teacher Told Me” (2007)
Thomas J. Sugrue: “The Origins of the Urban Crisis: Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit” (2005)
Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic: “Critical Race Theory” (2001)
Morris Dees: “A Season of Justice: The Life and Times of a Civil Rights Lawyer” (1992)
Virginia Foster Durr: “Outside the Magic Circle” (1990)
Lois Stalvey: “The Education of a WASP” (1989)
Edward S. Herman & Noam Chomsky: “Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media” (1988)
William English Walling:“Race War in the North” (1908) – out of print
Abraham Lincoln: “Speeches and Writings : 1859-1865”
Henry David Thoreau: “Civil Disobedience” (1849), “A Plea for Captain John Brown” (1860)
Harriet Beecher Stowe: “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” (1852)
I used to say there was no need for White History Month in America because it is the month that never ends: American history is taught year-round from a white point of view and makes white people the heroes, the good guys. But, as we know from the Texas school board and James Loewen, it is not a true history that is being taught but rather Caucasian Mythology (white supremacist propaganda).
See also:
- White History Month – in which I argue against the need for it
- History in Texas schoolbooks
- American history books and racism
- Books banned from Tucson classrooms
- If you like this blog you might also like… – more suggested reading, but mostly by black authors
- White in America – a spoof on CNN’s “Black in America”
- How White America got rich
- reading while white: history and news
Absolutely Awesome! That’s it………………….
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I never considered it for the same reasons you’ve mentioned, Abagond. But I have a feeling if it becomes a reality, it will be just like the censored, comic book, Disney-esque history taught in schools, and those Civil War reenactments you see in the South, to name a few.
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The Zoot Suit Riots and all of the various police shootings over the past several decades like Amadou Diallo.
We could also cover the long history of imprisonment of innocent black men because someone white decided to get out of being punished for their crime by blaming a POC.
Oh, there’s just oodles of fascinating topics.
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Under the “White in America” post, I concluded that all the WET networks would never produce such a programme, and neither would the white-owned BET.
So I suggested that Al Jazeera do it. I watched an Al Jazeera documentary recently about how the police typically round up black and hispanic youth around Los Angeles, accusing them of gang membership and finding a charge to pin on them.
But maybe it could also be a project for the CCTV (China Central TV). They always air their grievances about how western media (eg, news networks or even Hollywood) skews portrayal of Chinese history, politics and culture, and they even ban airing or distribution of many items they find offensive or provocative. Now it is time for them to turn the tables. Instead of accusing western nations, esp. the USA of “interfering with internal affairs” why don’t they do an accurate Non-Texas version documentary series of US history. They would have a huge viewership esp. if the series points out some of US inconsistencies, even hypocrisies about its policy (ie, the ones they promote overseas, but completely fail to exercise at home).
Only one problem — — once they aired such a show, there would be a push for actual Chinese (and others, eg, Japanese) history being taught or presented somehow, and they could NOT risk such a movement. Every place turns their history into mythology I suppose.
I am still trying to figure out who could be tapped to do the White in America documentaries and promote White History month.
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While I think everyone knows why, realistically speaking, an honest and uncensored White History Month would NEVER happen, it would be nice to see the reactions of those whiners who constantly moan about its absence when they saw it was about all the atrocities they feign ignorance in. Assuming we live in the fantasy land where such a thing wouldn’t be sanitized into oblivion.
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[…] "There should be a White History Month in America. That way we can teach all about the things White Americans have done in history, like:Cherokee Trail of TearsJapanese American internmentPhilippine-American WarJim CrowThe genocide of Native AmericansTransatlantic slave tradeThe Middle PassageThe history of White American racismBlack CodesSlave patrolsKu Klux KlanThe War on DrugsTreaty of Guadalupe HidalgoHow white racism grew out of slavery and genocideHow whites still benefit from slavery and genocideWhite anti-racismThe Southern strategyThe rape of black slave women- MORE – […]
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[…] See on abagond.wordpress.com […]
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Reblogged this on hereuntilgone.
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How about the Pilgrims edict to kill any Puritan on sight. Books I recommend for the month:
Documenting American Violence: A Sourcebook Christopher Waldrep and Michael Bellesiles (You might want to check their other books also)
American Violence; A Documentary History, by Richard Hofstadter.
Or anything on the The Wilmington Race Riot of 1898. The deconstruction of A.I.M., Little China’s how asian women were bought and forced in prositution. Small Pox Blankets always sent shivers up my spine. This country was builted on something but if you ask me it doesn’t seem like fairy dust and good wishes.
Wow, this would take more than a month. I think they should put up a book of Promises our Forefathers Broke. I always hated the term Forefathers as if they were mine then again with all those shenanigans they were up to you never know. As a kid when we still had sing all those nationalistic songs, I always that when they were singing My Country Tis of Thee at the end “Let Freedom Ring” everyone was saying “let three dumb rings”
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@ King of Trouble
LMAO. I completely agree about the fairy dust. Thanks for the recommendations.
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@ abagond
Thanks for making this place. I swam out a little too far this time and boy do I miss getting together, sharing ideas, and hearing from others.
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@ Bulanik
Completely agree.
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@ Brothawolf & tehnoun
I agree. If there was a real White History Month it would quickly degenerate into Caucasian Mythology Month, defeating the purpose of it.
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@ Bulanik, Legion, Jefe, etc
Right: history is political. Even Black History Month, such as it is, would still be Negro History Week without the civil rights movement. And American history classes would still be pushing Jim Crow orthodoxies. The powers that be use history to justify and sanitize themselves, if not make themselves invisible even. So we get the capitalist, white-is-right Disneyesque Texas version.
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I am half black (you too, are not 100 percent black, otherwise you would have very dark skin, not tanned skin),
and its stupid of you and your equally uneducated readers to also blindly assume “white people have no earth spirituality” (oh because Kanye west does… LOL. yeahhh… umm…. no black person has ever been materialistic or capitalistic or violent.. LOL. Um ever seen the African King?)
WOW. so you really must be dumb…
You have NEVER HEARD OF THE PAGANS?
YOU DON’T KNOW THE CHURCH WIPED THEM OUT?
The church is the most evil, murderous organisation to ever exist. You need to learn world history, NOW, before typing anymore crap. It is not healthy to live that way.
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These are not white “people” things. The majority of white people weren’t involved in that shit. That is no excuse for racism towards them.
What about all the “white” women who were raped and beaten? What about the BLACK men who raped and beat both black and white women? it should be “RICH MAN HISTORY MONTH”, and discuss the ego of men and power.
The ones who Occupy Wall Street are trying to fight back against, who send people to war to die, who control the media, who oppress women. You need a serious dose of modernity and perspective.
You can’t lump all white people into one group. What is a Turkish person? They are white, technically, but culturally middle eastern.
To be honest, if you look at history (and please, don’t go around knifing them like lunatics..) but the Italians were the greatest offenders of hating on blacks. Even more so, you have to wonder what the church does, how it started, what it did for over a thousand years to the people of Europe before Africa was even discovered, where the church comes from, learn about Roman history, oh and European history – start there maybe?
The pagans and celts were basically wiped out. Like most ancient ‘white’ natives who were extremely in touch with the lands (like most old tribes, but you never hear about the european ones) and they didn’t fight the invaders. The church took over, and starting burning witches and heretics, oppressing women and so forth. I would laugh if any of you were a member of the Church, or even supported the banks (please tell me you aren’t that clueless) yet so forthright in your dogma against an entire race of innocent people.
Your anger is totally misdirected, and could be used for something better, like, I don’t know, be angry at something rational, something that is REAL… that someone earns 8 billion a year for nothing but good investments, while the rest, like me, REGARDLESS OF RACE can’t afford a home?
You honestly have no idea about all the burnings and tortures that heretics in the UK endured? Do you know anything about what is happening in Africa now? Black people don’t kill other blacks? Excuse me?
This isn’t a race thing, people have been doing shit to each other forever. Who sold the slaves to America? Rich black kings in africa did.
The world is facing serious problems soon anyway, that will kill us all- over population, food and water shortages, less housing, solar flares, global warming.. you need to focus on the bigger picture, and the FUTURE which will be far worse than the past, instead of petty shit that is one sided and small minded.
You need to learn world history and about humans as a whole, not racist anti-white dogma from the Black Version of KKK you were told at home- aren’t you just as sick as them? Yeah.
Watch incredibly beautiful yet sad ‘HOME’ the documentary to see how close we are to all being wiped out.
Watch “How many People can Live on Planet Earth”
to realise we all share these burdens- and its because of the few RICH MEN in power- in Saudi Arabia, in America, in China. Speaking of which, learn about china and asian history to see even more violence. Look at Shanghai’s pollution levels and decide who actually doesn’t give a shit about humanity when you see how many die from toxic air poisioning. Look up wealthy corporations, learn SOMETHING. ANYTHING basic before spouting dangerous lies and committing hate crimes. Take time to learn, and if you don’t, as I can see you haven’t, proves my point. You don’t care about the truth at all.
Its RICH MEN.
Not white people.
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“I am half black” -youfromtheinsideout
lol…
https://twitter.com/jwiddess
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Abagond, this post is just — Priceless!
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http://www.eiu.edu/…/AfricanAmerican_Independent65_3Sept1908_ …
To download ‘Race Riot in the North’ as a PDF
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Actually google that address and it will lead you to the PDF file.
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@ youfromtheinsideout. You are a disgusting white devil . You stated ” Who sold the slaves to America? Rich black kings in africa did.
” . So Africans alone were responsible and Europeons had no hand in it? Who owned the ships? Who built the slave castles ? Lets see how your words hold up as you defend the vile wicked savage white race
Click to access Was+slavery+really+our+own+fault.pdf
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Bravo! This is well played. Thanks once again
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If only this would be a reality-the TRUTH and not the Caucasian mythology. What an ugly history. Who would want to know the truth, no wonder most of them are happy in their white minded ignorance about the past. YUCK!! My heart is sadden by those children hanging and their families.
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Long time lurker 🙂 I just find it funny that White commentators really believe that they can fool us with simple lines such as “I’m not white, but….” Or “I’m half black”. It is insults our intelligence. Your writing juxtaposes your claim of not being White when you write like one. #justsaying (sorry for the rant 😛 )
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@youfromtheinsideout
Damn, there are a lot of erroneous assumptions in your comments. Let’s see if I can pick through them all.
First off, you’re assuming that all of Abagond’s readers agree 100% with everything he says. You also just assuming everyone here absolutely hates all white people, when the real target of criticism here is whiteness and white supremacy. And you’re assuming there aren’t any white people commenting here.
You then go on to assume Abagond has said white people have no “earth spirituality” (I assume you’re accusing him of calling whites soulless) when he said nothing of the sort, go on a mini-rant about Pagans and the (Catholic) Church, and then blame everything on “rich people” while ignoring that the vast majority of the super-wealthy that own everything are white and their power comes from white supremacy.
A few commentors have already said it, but I’ll say it here too: obvious white troll is obvious.
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@ darth71:
Nice post of that book.
Currently reading, “The Everyday Language of White Racism (2008) – Jane Hill
Regarding a White History Month, it would be white washed, like the current history taught in schools, today.
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The rape of black women during slavery should be changed to the rape of black women until 1974.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Little
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Honestly I don’t think White History Month should be required or needed.
Everyday is White History Month because Whites control the media and the world!
We all know about the White inventors and people who contributed to the success of AmeriKKKa but what about Blacks, Latinos and Asians?
That is why Black History Month, Hispanic Heritage Month are needed so that Blacks and Latinos know the contributions their ancestors have been to this country!Black and Latinos kids don’t and shouldn’t be made to feel that they are inferior to Whites at all. They should be proud of their race and culture.
I was so mad the other day when my little brother was hanging out with his White friends and these White kids were saying that they don’t see the point of Black History Month and that they need White History Month. That made me mad because they were saying that the Civil Rights Movement was pointless without realizing it! Such ignorance and stupidity! Sad enough my little brother agreed with them. He should really be taught about Black inventors and Black history so that people like that don’t tell him that what his ancestors did was nothing. I guess it was easy for them to say because their ancestors didn’t go through what my ancestors although my family didn’t go through Jim Crow because they came to this country after Jim Crow fell in the 1960s from Jamaica. Well ancestors did go through slavery but not Jim Crow, de facto segregation, de jure segregation etc and the other extremes Black went through in America and South Africa. I am the first generation born of Jamaican immigrants. I still study Black American History and still empathize with Black Americans who have family in this country for generations! I can imagine all the crap their grandparents and great grandparents had to go through so that you, and other Black bloggers can walk in a grocery store without going through the backdoor!
@Eschowoman
It has been a known fact that White slave owners raped their young Black female slaves back centuries ago.
When will Americans start treating people as people. Everyone is equal but the racists don’t think so. I didn’t mean to sound like an angry Black woman but I am so sick of people thinking Whites are better than Blacks. There is good and bad in all races but many people don’t realize that!
When White America owes up to the actions of their racist forefathers and apologize for their racist behavior back then and now, is when America can finally move forward away from their racist past and finally become the ”postracial country” that they brand themselves to be.
Yes I am only 17 and I am not popular in school but I do observe the actions of people.
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Good post. I don’t have time to read the comments.
I think the problem in this country (and in mine, but in a different way) is that many people don’t want to here the “truth” (I prefer to say facts) because they think that they are personally attacked. That’s mostly due to racialism. Putting people in boxes and thinking that they “think” a certain way because they belong to “that” box (“race”).
It breaks my heart to see little kids on Disney channel say “Black History is MY history”. Do we want to have kids of so-called different races each say “White history is MY history” “Yellow history is MY history”, “Red History is MY history”. History is history, and those, I think, who really need to hear it (the truth, the facts) are the descendants of Europeans, because they are the ones who are most manipulated into believing in *a* history that is not history. They are the ones who do not realize how badly their ancestors’ actions or inaction have influenced history. They need to know. So we can ALL move on. Beyond their ancestors’ worst invention: race.
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Thanks for the book list recap. Some stuff I wanted to get there and had forgotten about.
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@Abagond Great post! You nailed it brother!
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@Kiwi
You have a good point but when people, especially many Caucasians look at me, they think of an angry Black woman because they say that I always looks mad for some reason. I don’t look mad, I am just serious, that is all. I get offended because I know that society sees me as less than because of my skin color.
I am not an angry Black woman, I am angry at society’s ways of valuing Whitness over Blacks, Latinos and Asians in this society.
Everyone is equal in my eyes.
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African slaves were like pets / cattle, they lived a good life back then with their owners. If the slaves were useful and took care of their owners property and did what they were told, they would be feed well and had a place to live and produced offspring. If they were not useful and didn’t do what they were told they would sell them to other slave owners who would buy African slaves. So all this nonsense that whites treated blacks horrible is bullshit! There were no crimes from whites on blacks, there are currently more crimes from black on whites, and the media never reports it. The Africans are just bitching about how they are treated poorly because they don’t want to work, and want free bacon. People tend to treat their pets better than their own kids, so imagine back then owning a slave as pets, they’d treated these slaves just as good as their pet.
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@ Legion, here is the reason I don’t 100% agree with you. I was a substitute History teacher for about 4 years one year it was for a school for the whole year but most it is a 6 to 3 months stint. I have had Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics in most of the schools I work in.
One, there weren’t any Mexican’s in America because we beat them whenever they tried war with us. Yes, one of my students wrote a paper on that. As if Mexican’s had never contributed to any part of America or helped this country at all.
Two, Asian’s only came over for the gold, false Lousianna had Asians before the gold rush. Plus plenty of the Carribean’s and South American countries force them into labor some of them would end up in America.
Three Asian American’s just hid in Chinatown and didn’t contribute to this nation, if you are starting to see the trend in my students history papers you would see ignorance the size of Jupiter and about the same gravitational pull. I have had parents say I don’t I just stick to American History when educating their kids about why their papers are wrong. Now if you think it is just the bold actions of our famous forefathers that should be highlighted because they did indeed do many things without shame I wouldn’t stop there.
I tell the kids why Andrew Jackson is my least favorite president. I let them know about those rough riders and what a certain president said before he ran for president. I am sorry but most of history is stark lies in American history quite a few other countries also, but I am American so I will address that.
When I hear “The Greatest Generation” it makes me want to gag. It clogs my throat and I feel bile come up. “The Greatest Generation” yet this will be history and it is built up on so many lies that it is impossible not to attack its false base.
So is the history of America that it sprang up with the idea that if you just worked hard in America you can become anything. Tons of minorities labored hard under the sun and yet they didn’t get paid proportional for their hard work. Now if we can untangle it look at how things really work you can raise up all of children with a sense of worth.
The first time I walked on to a reservation I was 17 and we played basketball against them. This place was the most horrible hell hole I had ever seen. I had always heard that reservations were given all this great deals from the government. We had done bad in the past but the government has been working to fix that problem. I stepped onto that court around that reservation school and I thought warning, warning this area is not good. We had out of sight and out of mind the problem and my schools which were predominately white were saying we’d been helping and righting our past wrongs. It was a boldface lie because my last year of high school was for a boarding school in Arizona and we went to a few Reservations and most of them looked in dispair.
I’m not looking for lies I am starring at them and I have been crushed by the incoming waves of them. So when I say Lies, I mean Lies that have used to keep our kids thinking they didn’t do anything. Few groups tried litigation as hard as the Asians, No blacks didn’t just try to run away they did rebel and there were quite a few rebellions, No Natives didn’t just take get pushed out of their home lands quietly, Yes the, no cowboys weren’t all just white, yes there actually people from India here before the 1900’s, I am literally walking on the mountain of ignorance these lies perpetuate. I was one of the people who was trying to make sure that our kids of color and our white kids know this land had many people striving to make it.
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Well Said! Abagond. I love it!!
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@Ross:
African slaves were like pets / cattle, they lived a good life back then with their owners.
Are you insane or just dense?
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This is a great post. This is the real white history month that should be presented. This is the pure unvarnished truth. Thanks Abagond. This is the real history of America this post that you posted. It’s not white washed no pun intended. This truth the majority of white American can’t handle.
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There’s actually one problem with this post; many of these subjects do get covered in history class throughout grade school and highschool.
Admitably usually not in too much depth; at least, not in my time…..
@Bulanik
Actually Europeans do study their own, its called sociology there is also psychology as well, not factoring in general history classes.
Admitably these can be and often are with biases of the times in place but they do find themselves interesting as well as others.
@Ross
While; your statement is pretty iffy, if I remember right one of the arguments at the time by slavers was that the various rich northerners, factory owners, business men and the like were hypocrites because they often treated their employees as bad or worse than they did their slaves.
Thats less an argument for slavers and more an argument showing the corruption and hypocripcsy that on some level is innate to a capitalistic system.
Or to put it this way; more white people were ass-holes besides slavers.
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@Mary Burrell
Well said!
The truth is…..the history of ”White America” is full of violence, racism and many evil things that many of their fore fathers have done to Natives and the enslaved Africans by lynching, raping and stealing from them.
I don’t see why most White Americans can’t handle the truth about the history of this country?
I am not trying to be racist but I am wondering as a young, Black woman.
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@ King of trouble
Did you also search for uncommon history and trivia to portray others negatively? Or was the cherry-picking limited to smearing whites?
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@Ross
My brain doesn’t want to believe I just read that. Someone should take away your keyboard before you spill more insanity into the internet.
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@Churchs
I like how pointing out things that happened that historians cover up is, to paraphrase you, “cherry picking uncommon trivia to smear whites”. It’s clear you’re more concerned about how bad this makes white supremacy look and less about how terrible things actually happened to real human beings.
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Did you also search for uncommon history and trivia to portray others negatively? Or was the cherry-picking limited to smearing whites?
Oh no, he thinks you and your ilk are wonderful. So forceful and manly, history shows us this. If nothing else you should be proud of the white peoples’ accomplishments historically. So what if they enjoy slaughtering, rape and rapine, cultural genocide, colonialism etc. The ends justifies the means, why deny yourself the pleasure of being superior? You are comical.
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I like how pointing out things that happened that historians cover up is, to paraphrase you, “cherry picking uncommon trivia to smear whites”. tehnoun
I don’t think historians are “covering up” anything. Regardless, I certainly haven’t noticed much effort to find things that don’t smear whites.
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@ Legion
I had him in an earlier draft but then limited the post to just White Americans. But to cover White American history properly you would need to step back and see the broader picture.
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@ youfromtheinsideout
I limited this to White American history, especially of the sort that gets skipped over or barely covered, so no Celts or pollution levels in Shanghai.
All urban societies are run by and benefit those at top. That is not news. In the case of white racism, though, White Americans are both complicit and benefit. They have been called the world’s largest aristocracy.
There have been some shining moments of white anti-racism, like the abolition movement, but from the Klan onwards THE SILENCE HAS BEEN DEAFENING.
The saddest moment of writing this post came when I listed suggested school report topics and found that there are few white anti-racist heroes. Either there truly are few since Reconstruction or most are not well known. Either way that is sad, heart-breaking kind of sad. And sickening when you see how whites think they are God’s gift to the world, the “good guys”.
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@ Herneith
Thanks for the Walling link.
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@ Legion
Right. If you look at his bibliographies it is mostly mainstream stuff like the New York Times, the Guardian, human rights reports and so on. As I think he said elsewhere, what is NOT being said can be as important as what is.
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@ youfromtheinsideout
Tehnoun said:
Whites like to say “blame the rich, not the whites” or something to that effect. My experience though, from living in the less swanky parts of New York and in the black middle-class, is that race matters way more than class. WAY more. Money helps but it only gets you so far. Also it does not escape my notice that the rich in America and the sort of racist white people you see at Walmart are in an unholy alliance called the Republican Party.
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@ King of Trouble
Great comment about your teaching experience and about the reservations. I had no idea either till I saw one.
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@ Legion
Actually, I’d say that’s a bit of an anachronistic sentiment/approach to the Founding Fathers (if indeed you are referring to them). I’m quite a bit more interested in the promises they kept and the things they openly (with no political fear or moral shame, because the times were different) advocated for. Looking for lies and deception isn’t always the way to go when trying to discover more about the world.
I don’t think you really understand how much kids already think they know. I don’t have to go looking for lies kids already write on top of things they have assumed and think they know. I would just like to clear up that there are a ton of things Indians, Irish, Italians, Germans, Blacks, Natives, Asians have done that they were promised and then found out they were lied to. If you think that in high school the kids haven’t already made presumptions than I would ask you to go ask any high school history teacher. I am not also talking just about the Founding Fathers I am talking through out our history. I also disagree about looking for lies because you don’t have to search that hard. It is the biggest thing dividing most of the countries I visit our live in. Would Korea, Japan, and China be better if they face some unpleasant truths? We rarely ever really confront ourselves and these lies create horrible division between us. I believe if you truely confront what has happen and really work to get past it then the future can be a brighter one. Yet, I see we bury and bury things and try to make them obscure.
@ Church I haven’t looked up for uncommon history. I worked as history teacher which means yes if you remember half the history reports you have to write, a ton of them came on my desk every week. If you would like to see the amount of work a history teacher has to sort through and how many sites we have to go through to make sure our students aren’t cheating then you would see the problem. A history teacher has to be voracious reader because the subject lends itself out to tangents from students. If you hand me in a paper that says that Indian civilization couldn’t compete with western civilzation because they didn’t have any culture then I have to read through it. Then I have to grade it and the premise is so off it strange but it wasn’t an usually topic to see on a paper. It isn’t even close to some of the strange papers I get because kids make assumptions especially when they barely know history. I have to mark these things. I didn’t have to look they literally fall on my desk every other week. I could talk about any country but just like the history course I had this is American History we are talking about.
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@ king of trouble
I wasn’t talking about student’s papers. I was talking about information you were inserting into the class. You only gave a couple of examples but I expect your other additions fit the same pattern. That’s why I asked the question.
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@ V-4
That will depend on the school you go to and the teachers you get. Upper middle-class high schools seem to be better at covering this kind of stuff with greater respect for fact – closer to serious, university-level history. It is the masses that get fed higher doses of mythology, as shown by King of Trouble’s comment.
When I went to American high school these were not covered AT ALL in history class, NOT EVEN IN PASSING:
Philippine-American War
The Middle Passage
The history of White American racism
Black Codes
Slave patrols
How white racism grew out of slavery and genocide
How whites still benefit from slavery and genocide
The Southern strategy
CORE
Madison Grant
Human zoos
How the Jews became white
White flight
Redlining
Tulsa Riots
Rosewood massacre
Tuskegee Experiment
Hollywood stereotypes
Indian Appropriations Acts
Sundown towns
Chinese Exclusion Act
Emmett Till
Indian boarding schools
King Philip’s War
Bacon’s Rebellion
American slavery compared to Arab, Roman and Latin American
History of the gun
History of the police
History of prisons
History of white suburbia
Lincoln’s racism and anti-racism
George Wallace
Cointelpro
Real estate steering
School tracking
Boston school busing riots
The others were covered in passing or left out huge facts (or took place after I was in high school).
Like I knew about the Japanese American Internment but NOT
– that they lost everything they could not carry,
– that the Census Bureau was in on it,
– that the FBI was against it,
– that some called for killing them,
– that the Supreme Court thought race was more important than citizenship
So it merits going on the list.
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@V-4
“There’s actually one problem with this post; many of these subjects do get covered in history class throughout grade school and highschool.”
I learned about most of these topics in high school and university and afterward, but NONE of them were covered in any of the primary and secondary schools I attended. I also was a substitute teacher in a secondary school after I graduated from university, and I don’t recall any of these subjects as being touched at all.
I did learn about them because I was curious and went to the library often, and did my own research projects at university and still wanted to find out what happened. Many of them I actually witnessed first hand and then did more research to find out what happened. But, they indeed were not covered by any history textbook I studied from in high school. Even the word “Jim Crow” was not mentioned at all in the history books I used in high school.
And I am still learning – I did not learn about Emmett Till until I was many years out of university, yet it happened in the town adjacent to where my cousins grew up and going to school. I didn’t learn about the Freedom Riders until decades after they occurred, yet the buses departed from my hometown and were attacked in my mother’s hometown in the year I was born – in fact, it was only after I learned about the Freedom riders that I finally understood how my family was affected. I never knew why my family could not travel around as a family when I was a child, why my mother had to rent an apartment and had her family move in secretly afterwards and why we had never stayed in a hotel until many years after Loving vs. Virginia. (Every person I tell the story to thinks it is too incredible to be true.) Only after I found out that my great-grandfather was lynched that I found out about the numerous lynchings and massacres in the western states in the 1890s. I learned about the Chinese Exclusion Act only after hearing stories of how my grandfather and aunts circumvented it by using false papers (and why I had a fake surname). I felt that a whole swath of history was simply omitted from my education, yet affected my family deeply and directly.
So, yes, we need Abagond and others like him to remind us every day of what has been swept under the rug, if only to better understand ourselves and the society we live in.
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CORE is the Congress for Racial Equality, a civil rights group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Racial_Equality
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@ Jefe
Great comment on why this stuff is important, that it is neither “trivia” nor about “smearing whites”.
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The only people who think that telling the truth about what happened is “smearing” are people who know the truth and are deeply, deeply ashamed of it.
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i find that interesting because, as we were growing up, we were taught to be ashamed that we had been slaves, that we had allowed ourselves to be slaves As if it was our fault for being weak enough to have that done to us. It never occurred to me, probably because of all the whitewashing done in History class, that white people should feel ashamed that they had done it. it was never taught in school that there are a whole host of events they should feel ashamed about and from a lot of the commentary you get when it’s brought up, I think they do.
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@ Kiwi
At my school Jewish history was taken way more seriously than black history. So like we would read Anne Frank but not Frederick Douglass. Some of the teachers were Jewish, but I think that is only part of it and probably not the main part.
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@ Legion
I am not sure if you are a teacher or not. History is supposed to have a state approve cirriculum. I do not go inserting things into my classes. However, as I stated if a premise is so far off base I do have to help my students. I don’t want any of my students to go off in college and say things like Haiti is a mess because they have been cursed by God. I don’t insert we give them a reading list and of course the course book. The reading list because I am a substitute has alread been approved for the year.
Legion. Most Teachers have little leeway to throw in what they want. There is cirriculum in which you shouldn’t stray too far from. We as a country really haven’t been around that long but we barely dip into our history. Which I know if you ask Canadians and Mexicans who also study US history we don’t really study that much in their eyes. Few of my students actually knew that we have gone to war against Canada (Sorry tangent). What we do in history is skim. Yet, I cannot answer for all states because what is taught in one state could be different from what I had to teach in mine.
I am not ignoring your future post I will be back in a few days but the family is immigrating and so I have to go to the embassy in Tokyo a few times this month and next. If you post a reply I will try to get back to it as soon as possible. Catch you later.
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Great comment on why this stuff is important, that it is neither “trivia” nor about “smearing whites”. — abagond
You made your motives clear with all the posts and comments that strongly implied (if not outright said) slavery wasn’t as bad when arabs, amerindians, blacks and others did it.
>>
The only people who think that telling the truth about what happened is “smearing” are people who know the truth and are deeply, deeply ashamed of it. — ikeke35
Meanwhile, inconvenient truths manage to find their way to the “broken records department”.
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@ Churchs
Both King of Trouble and Jefe gave wonderful examples showing why the stuff in the list matters. If you think they are “trivia” meant for “smearing whites” then you miss the point.
If the history taught at high school is going to be limited to what affects white people and what can be told in a way that does not make them feel too bad, as it mostly is, then people are not going to understand themselves or their country.
Like with Jefe, there is so much that I was never told growing up, so I had to find out stuff the hard way. A book of Greek history (Thucydides) matched what I saw better than the white middle-class fairy tale I learned at school.
American high school history is not about helping you understand the country or yourself. It is about making you a compliant citizen. It is indoctrination not liberation. It is Caucasian Mythology, not history.
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@ Churchs
As it turns out, most are common racist defences to avoid facing inconvenient truths.
Most broken records have a post of their own. You can argue them there instead of making us debate them for the gazillionth time on other threads. Most who use them, in any case, are not particularly interested in the truth, inconvenient or convenient. They are like the sheep in “Animal Farm”. After all, that is the point of a broken record – to avoid the truth.
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@ abagond
If you think they are “trivia” meant for “smearing whites” then you miss the point.
No. I did not miss the point. What you claim is the point was shown a lie by your previous posts and comments that strongly imply slavery wasn’t as bad when arabs, amerindians, blacks and others did it. You embarrass yourself by claiming your interest in history is merely about helping people understand themselves and their country.
As it turns out, most are common racist defences to avoid facing inconvenient truths.
But of course! Everything you disagree with is “racist”.
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@Abagond,
Last night i was at a pharmacy getting chocolates and eyeshadow. A white lady was on the aisle. She saw me walk up–i was wearing a skirt and a pink blouse–not the store uniform–and she asked “do you work here?” I said no and kept shopping.
Then she started going on about how Iman cosmetics and Milani cosmetics were being racist for excluding her. She was all “You know i feel it should be a white college fund. I mean i’m not racist because i would marry a Black Man, but i just feel it should be equal across the board you know.”
I kinda laughed as she obviously didn’t realize that the whole cosmetic wall IS dedicated to women her complexion (Revlon, Covergirl, etc) yet she complains about WoC being able to buy the only two lines in drugstores that address our needs?
She also kept following me around the store. I just wanted to shop in peace.
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@ phoebeprunelle:
Looks like someones is craving, chocolate. Do you have a bun in the oven?
I wonder about white people, that walk up to a black person, they don’t know and complain about products, services and organizations that are focused towards, black people.
The things they whine about are always petty and trivial, too. I think they do it to get on our nerves.
I think she just wanted to tell you to your face, ( in a sneaky way ) that she didn’t like the fact that there is a cosmetic section for you, a black woman and a “negro college fund” in so many words.
You should have gotten a few jabs in at her expense, a little sarcasm, perhaps?
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I think you should add Frederick Douglass’ “Narrative of the life of a Slave” to the reading list. To read an account of what it was like to be a slave in the US, told by an ACTUAL escaped slave who secretly (and illegally at the time) taught himself to read and write—was the most eye-opening thing I’d read up to that point in my life. my favorite part of that narrative was at the end, where Douglass wrote a parody to a popular Baptist hymn, “Heavenly Union”……and WOW is it biting!
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@king of trouble
“Few groups tried litigation as hard as the Asians”
You indeed know a thing or two about US history. Even if they were disenfranchised from basic civil rights, they did figure out how to use the US court system, and several important ones made it all the way to the Supreme Court, eg,
* Fong Yue Ting v. United States (1893) upheld that the Geary Act, which extended and expanded the Chinese Exclusion Act, was constitutional.
* United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) – upheld that, to be consistent with the 14th amendment, that persons born in the USA were US citizens, establishing the precedence of jus soli. I NEVER KNEW THIS UNTIL MANY MANY YEARS AFTER I FINISHED UNIVERSITY.
* Lum v. Rice (1927) – Supreme Court ruled that ethnic Chinese children could be barred from attending local high schools intended for whites in Mississippi, as long as there was a school intended for coloreds which the child could attend. Plessy v. Ferguson was cited as precedent case to support the verdict, which essentially allowed Mississippi, or any jurisdiction to classify Asians as Colored. This ruling was later invalidated by Brown vs. Board (1954).
ex-President and Chief Justice William Taft delivered the verdict
However, I have a dozen older cousins (children of 2 of my Aunts) that grew up in Mississippi 1940s-1960s. I know that between the 1920s and 1950s (and doing my research on the topic for university history projects), that Chinese-Americans in Mississippi devised ways to circumvent the “colored” classification. They knew that the colored schools were not “separate but equal” and tried every method to change their classification. By the late 1940s, most of them were attending the white schools (and even drinking from white water fountains), but at a tremendous social cost (and I am considering doing a guest post on this when I get around to it).
* Korematsu v. United States (1944)
The 6-3 verdict – “The exclusion order leading to Japanese American Internment was constitutional.”
So, little by little, I learned way before the main civil rights movement (1955-1968), there was a whole series of attempts to challenge the constitution for basic civil rights. And it was the Wong Kim Ark verdict that established the principle of jus soli citizenship in the USA. Why is this not taught in US History classes in High School? Certainly many white people benefited from this.
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@Bulanik,
I think that I learned a lot of history in the post internet age. I don’t see how a school board could tell an outright lie and get away with it without blocking the internet.
In fact, I just found out that in 2012, a memorial was set up by Lewiston, Idaho to commemorate the 34 Chinese men that were massacred there in 1887 (actually Deep Creek is in Oregon). The documents were actually HIDDEN (and only recently uncovered) and the local residents had no knowledge of the largest single ethnic Chinese massacre in US history just a little ways from their town.
http://www.examiner.com/article/chinese-massacre-victims-get-memorial-125-years-later
Now, it is perfectly clear why China and some other countries block internet sites. It is easier to learn the truth than it used to be when only print was available.
Sadly, nearly a hundred years later in 1982, white men could beat Vincent Chin to death and not have to serve any jail time. I wonder how the people in 2080 will look back at the incident.
@Abagond & Bulanik
There is even a Youtube about this.
What impressed me most was that it was a white historian who dug up the information, which was picked up by the Town of Lewiston and recognized as important history for ALL Americans — ie, to see white americans acknowledging that this is part of THEIR history.
But, sadly, it shows that this kind of history is deemed important only if white people take ownership of it. If Chinese-Americans performed the historical research and posted it, it probably would not extend beyond the blogosphere. We have the other 56 points above (plus thousands of others) that white people need to take ownership of. That is why we need a White History Month to include these very topics.
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Why can’t most Caucasian Americans handle the TRUTH about the history of this nation?
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Regardless, I certainly haven’t noticed much effort to find things that don’t smear whites.
A kindly white man helped me with my grocery bags yesterday. How’s that?
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@ Churchs
Why in the world would I lie? What is the point? Anyone can look this stuff up and make me look like a fool. Writing posts that can get hundreds of comments from all over the world is no easy task. Especially for a blog where the censorship is as light as it is here. You know first-hand that I am not going to delete someone’s comment simply for disagreeing with me.
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@ phoebeprunelle
Not only do they complain, they tend to blow out of proportion the little bit that is black.
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@ joe
Great book but I limited the list to White American authors only.
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@ Jefe
Yes, please do! And thank you for the court cases.
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@Kiwi
Actually it did happen in Mississippi and Alabama, but with the Choctaw tribe (and other tribes under the Indian Removal Act). Andrew Jackson ordered that they be removed in the 1830s so that white people could move in and plant cotton and bring over their black slaves to do all the work.
Yes, Idaho should be 1/3 Chinese and Mississippi should be 1/3 Choctaw, but look at what happened. And then look at what the High School history books have to say about it.
If you delve deep into it, the USA has time after time undergone many repeated periods of ethnic cleansing.
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Need to say something else.
I don’t know if you have seen the Hollywood epic film “How the West was Won” (1962) with an all-star cast and which was nominated and won several Oscars. It shows the westward expansion across the USA in the 19th century (1840-1885) through the eyes of a white family. It touched on topics such as the river towns, the Gold Rush, the Alamo, the Civil War, the building of the railroad. The final scenes show shots from San Francisco and Los Angeles in the early 1960s. It is classic US History secondary school textbook.
Now, we need that film to be redone and show actually what happened in the 19th century, starting with the Louisiana purchase up to Jim Crow and the Spanish-American war. Maybe call it “How the West was REALLY won”.
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My thing is when you look at “black history month” it seems to be more contemporary and involve everyday people.
You could make a “white history month” about that too.
“In this day in white history month, Joe the fireman put his arse on the line and saved an immigrant family including a new born from a 5 alarm fire” …..made up example but I’m sure it happens all the time.
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@ Abagond
You either misunderstood my previous comment or you’re being deliberately obtuse as a rhetorical tactic to avoid my argument. I’ll repeat it again. Maybe you can understand it if you read it a third time.
You claim your interest in history is merely about helping people understand themselves and their country. That was shown a lie by your previous posts and comments that strongly imply slavery wasn’t as bad when arabs, amerindians, blacks and others did it. I certainly haven’t noticed much effort to find things that don’t smear whites.
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@ Churchs
I did not imply all that, but even if I did, so what? I state things as I know them to be. How does that show anything to be a lie? Where is the contradiction?
This post is about some of the White American history that is often not taught at American high schools. By its very nature most of it will be unpleasant to white people. The trouble is not with my “smearing” but with feel-good white history taught at high school.
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the Edomites wanna kill off blackness
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@ Abagond
I did not imply all that, but even if I did, so what? I state things as I know them to be. How does that show anything to be a lie? Where is the contradiction?
Yes. You’ve implied that repeatedly in post after post and comment after comment. It makes you a liar to say otherwise.
No, you do not “state things as you know them to be”. You cherry-pick events and details to create prejudice while neglecting other events and details that would make the topics less prejudicial.
This post is about some of the White American history that is often not taught at American high schools. By its very nature most of it will be unpleasant to white people.
Meanwhile, inconvenient truths find their way to the “broken records department”
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Churchs:
Abagond:
Churchs:
Not sure what blog you are reading. To the best of my memory:
1. I have never talked about Amerindian slavery.
2. I have said that African slavery was not as bad as American slavery, that part is true. But I did not imply it, I just said it straight out.
3. When I wrote about Arab slavery I pointed out that they practised castration and sex slavery. Not sure how that makes it “not as bad as” American slavery.
So when I said “I did not imply all that”, that is what I had in mind.
If I am wrong, then you can refresh my memory with the appropriate quotes.
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@ Churchs
What you call inconvenient truths I call broken records for a reason: because I have heard them over and over and over again. I have written posts on most of them. They have been debated AT LENGTH on this blog by blacks, whites and others.
You think they are truths, I think they are mostly racist defences. Still I did not avoid them but dealt with them openly and head on and let everyone with a civil tongue have a say regardless of race. How many other blogs can claim better or even the same? You are barking up the wrong tree.
In my experience most who bring up broken record arguments are not one bit interested in the truth. Just as highway robbers are not one bit interested in honest commerce.
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@ Churchs
When commenters say I leave stuff out it mostly turns out to be things that are way off topic – like the slaughter of Celts, pollution levels in Shanghai, what Genghis Khan would do, how Africans “sold their own” into slavery, the Arab slave trade, etc. These are used not to fill in facts I overlooked but to make white actions look “not so bad”. It is a piece of the morally broken way many whites think.
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The level of defensiveness that most whites display when it comes to the true history of this country is amazing. They can google slave narratives and come up with audio of actual slaves telling their own stories, They can google lynching and come up with hundreds of pictures like the one in the heading.There are original sources that document everything mentioned on this post and it is all all within easy reach online. Yet with all the evidence out there within they come up with the same sad set of white whining memes that attempt to deflect and derail the conversation so that they will not feel uncomfortable for a moment or two. These time worn, poorly thought out cliches are repeated over and over again. Each time with the same self-important pomposity that they are enlightening with information that we have never heard before. They fail to see how narcissistic and selfish it is demand that people of color “get over” their history because it makes them feel a pang of guilt. What do they get coming to sites like this? Why don’t they stay in their spaces of racism like The Vanguard or Stormfront? Why is their such a need to demand that we put whiteness before our own identities?
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@ Abagond
1. I have never talked about Amerindian slavery.
Gee, I wonder why. Maybe its because you can’t use it to smear whites???
2. I have said that African slavery was not as bad as American slavery, that part is true. But I did not imply it, I just said it straight out.
In my first comment I said, “strongly implied (if not outright said)”.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/why-there-should-be-a-white-history-month/#comment-160301
3. When I wrote about Arab slavery I pointed out that they practised castration and sex slavery. Not sure how that makes it “not as bad as” American slavery.
You also tried to dress it up with claims that a lucky few might end up with a privileged position. Well, whoopty-fcuking-doo. That’s what I call putting lipstick on a pig.
So when I said “I did not imply all that”, that is what I had in mind.
Let’s recap. You’ve repeatedly written about slavery and Amerindians pointing out white misbehavior in both yet somehow managed to overlook that Amerindians were involved in slavery themselves. You’ve tried to excuse black slavery as “not as bad” as white slavery. When whites do that you refer to it as “the arab slave trader argument”. And then you tried to dress up arab slavery. I’d consider minimizing slavery by others as a reverse arab slave trader argument. Whereas some might wish to minimize white misbehavior by portraying others as worse you try to maximize white misbehavior by portraying others as less bad. Get it straight — there is no “good” slavery.
When commenters say I leave stuff out it mostly turns out to be things that are way off topic. These are used not to fill in facts I overlooked but to make white actions look “not so bad”. It is a piece of the morally broken way many whites think.
And that’s a problem because it gets in the way of you portraying whites as uniquely evil. Yeah, I saw the little post where you claim you’re not. Yeah, well if you say so. #sarcasm But when I look through your index and skim your posts its obvious that’s exactly what you’re doing.
What you call inconvenient truths I call broken records for a reason: because I have heard them over and over and over again. I have written posts on most of them. They have been debated AT LENGTH on this blog by blacks, whites and others.
They’re no more a broken record than many of the arguments brought up by those who follow you. Yet those arguments haven’t made it to the “broken records department”. I will, however, point out two things on the list that stand out as not belonging — crime stats and IQ. True enough, I could go back to a couple of really old posts in which you address those. I could comment to my hearts content where no one would read my argument lost among the thousands of other comments on hundreds of other posts. Meanwhile, you continue to smear whites with the same old tropes in newer posts and comments.
Something else caught my eye about the “broken records” post. Ostensibly, that’s where those who disagree are “sent”. And yet its about the only post on your blog that doesn’t have someone disagreeing with you. You’ve deleted their comments.
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@ Churchs
1. The first broken record is that having a broken record dept is unfair. Click on that link. That is where it is debated.
2. My comments have an RSS feed, so if you add a comment to an old post plenty of people will see it. The feed currently has 884 subscribers. Plus it will appear in the right margin under “Comments”. I have posts where the comment thread goes on for years, so it works. The “White American music” thread, which is currently getting comments, I wrote in 2008.
3. American slavery was worse than African slavery. Deal with it. Arab slavery was better in some way, worse in others. I regard it as a wash. American slavery was not the worst – Haitian slavery was far worse. But American slavery was among the worst because it was more dehumanizing than most. A form of that dehumanization lives on in American culture.
4. Slaveries can be compared to a degree. A slavery where there is hope for freedom for you or your children is better than one where there is no such hope. One where you are worked to death in five years is worse than one where that is rare. And so on. “Better” and “worse’ are relative, not absolute. No one is saying slavery is “good”, no one is saying it is all right.
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@ Churchs:
This idea of yours that I am out to smear whites is arrogant and self-absorbed. It values white feelings over the truth. It views my actions according to how they affect whites, as if my actions could have no other motive, concern or purpose. As if I was put on earth only for the sake of white people.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/i-do-not-write-this-blog-for-white-people/
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@abagond I used to feel salty like that as well… yet I still read your blog. One thing I will say about you it can’t be easy running a popular racially charged blog as this. No one is perfect… but I have to admit you do a good job trying to police 100 different points of views on the subject.
Do I think you are biased on the black point of view at times….yes. But who isn’t somewhat biased in this country. At least you don’t sensor the opposite view point and that is all I ask for.
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@ Legion just made it back from Tokyo the shinkansen was a killer with a kid but I can reply back tomorrow. (I saw your post now and I am dead tired from the trip and dealing with paperwork.)You have to remember that their are no electronics devices allowed in the Embassy so I was computerless for a while. I am tired but as soon as I get some sleep I will reply back is that ok? I think I am repeating myself but need sleep.
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White people find depictions of American history offensive. The suffering of African Americans suffering and oppresion at the hands of their ancestors is highly offensive as well.
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@ abagond
Your last comment was nothing but insults. Or was it strawmen? Kind of both. Being accused of having “feelings” is a new one, though. I can assure you that “feelings” aren’t an issue for me. But between your insults and reference to feelings I can’t help thinking you might be carrying some emotional baggage. And I should give a sh1t because… ?
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@ kiwi
I’m not insulted. I’m curious. Unless you’re psychic I’d appreciate it if you’d allow abagond to answer for himself. Thanks.
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@ abagond
You said your posts weren’t about “white feelings”. I never said they were and I believe you when you say they’re not. So what was your “motive, concern or purpose” for the thousands of posts you’ve written about whites over the last few years?
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[…] if that was the reason for having a White History Month, a month where “real history” was taught for example history of systems of oppression an…then sure I’d be down for it but I highly doubt that would happen or rather maybe it would […]
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@ Churchs
To unlearn their lies, to understand their racism.
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@ Legion, sorry I have been pretty busy especially getting ready to move back to the States. I guess everywhere there is paperwork but seems Americans drown in it.
“It is unclear to me whether you are intentionally being patronizing, are you? King (o.t.) everyone knows that curriculum is set by the state.”
No they don’t you would not believe the amount of people who do not. So I have given up assuming that people know the job description or for that matter what other people may know. I prefer to clear it up at the beginning so I can know where to go from there.
Second I had to look up non sequitur not in my venacular till this point so I want to thank you. I have Kindergarden School teacher syndrom where I have been dealing on a lower level of English for so long that my skills have atrophed.
I do not think that these things are trival because I had students from many different ethnic makes. Why must we hide their American heritage through history. Which we do well enough for Purto Ricans to have to go all the way to court because officers of the law have no idea that Purto Rico is part of America. We have older people who were told that English is the official language of the States when it is not. Why did our Forefathers cover up these things because they were embrassed by them, why if we are so modern can’t we shine lights on them? Why can’t we let more of our ethnically diverse Forefathers shine too. I am not for burying the traditional forefathers but some of the beautification can be let go of. When I hear Americans talk about how backward Africa is (in the case of the continent I know that there are places that are doing well also) or Russia for that matter I want to ask them if they truely know our own history. Never once in my history class did anyone state that the Russians had ships on our shores in non-verbal support of President Lincoln. I know I grew up in the cold war.
The one thing I get from my students and different people about history is they feel they have been lied to. How can you take a course of study serious when a lot of people equate it with parents telling their kids about Santa Claus. Feel good history hurts the course and makes it weaker than it should be. Let’s get it out the way and move on to building up all the communities.
Anyway you could be right “non sequitur” it has been almost twelve years since I have do deal with anything more difficult than “This is a pen.” I’m rusty.
@Jefe
I think that a whole range of ethnic groups made this country. Thank you for pointing out the cases. Makes me wish this blog was around when I was fiesty and love diving through history. I use to love law and history but after a few years teaching it I lost a little of my fever for it.
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@ Legion
Sorry, it is long. I am horrible at editing these day.
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We should go ahead and make a white history month on the internet for PoC to post videos about and random facts. That would be funny if people on the internet a month and send this to all blogs for people to “celebrate it” openly. Lol except for white people.That would been funny, but the key is. All PoC must play a part in it because whites like to blame just the “blacks” for everything and say “see, this Asian woman is great and nerdy and not partaking in this activity. I am not racists. I like Asians but hate black people!” Then lots of PoC will want to be seen “as better than” and join in… I vote for March! Lol.
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Oh I see @Misty… so should we make an asian history month. Just talk about any bad thing asians have done throughout history,,….. then only “NAP” (Non Asian People) can comment. Sounds a little funny when I put it like that doesn’t it?
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Not really. I wouldn’t care. It can happen but you white people don’t need a month. You do it all year round to every race.
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@ King of Trouble: LoL I had to look up non sequitur too. LoL. I like that Legion gives me new word to add to my vocabulary and we can talk about music too. I like your commentary I have enjoyed your commentary as well.
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@ Dave.
I never get into arguments with posters so if you expect that , it won’t happen. I just find it funny when “most” whites rag on PoC (meaning all ppl with melanin in their skin) but if someone does it to them , they use the unjust and feelings card as if I should stop and care when you don’t the other way around. Total derailment. “That hurts , how would you …yadda yadda” feel. Plus, you call this highlighting negativity , I just see history that’s all. No need to sugarcoat two girls and a man hanging from a tree (thanks to rascists white males and females) or murdering all the Natives (thanks to rascist whites again). Why don’t you do what you tell PoC to do and “get over it”? And I specifically said that all POC meaning blacks , asians , mexicans , browns etc of all ethnicities can speak up and share a particular experience and celebrate “whiteness”. For this is truley “whiteness” , not seen through the bias self worshipping eyes of a white person. And for the record I never said whites could not “celebrate”, if you want to celebrate mass lynchings for hundreds of years , go ahead and bringing rats to America and diseases from dirty boats. But don’t twist my words and try to split PoC into groups against each other like whites love doing. PoC have something in common, it is experiecing white rascism. White ppl are not PoC and I find it funny that you (clearly white or a white supporter) for once would consider black and mexicans on the side with whites for your asian example , when “majority” of white people hate blacks and whites. How useful! Dividing ethnicities in your favor, it is a game played and created by white people and it needs to stop. Won’t hold my breath though. I’ve used up a few minutes stopping to chat but I think I am finished. You will no longer get a response , so have a nice week , Dave.
And to your question. Hahahahahahahaha
Ha.
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What exactly are these bad things in which Asian Americans as a group / ‘race’ have supposedly committed against “NAPs” in America?! I’d be interested in seeing that list.
.
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*I mean whites hate blacks , asians , mexicans , reds , yellows or whatever stupid name they call all people with melanin. They don’t hate wh…. Oh they do. They have ethnocentrism too but that isn’t the same as rascism to PoC.
Darn typos.
Toodles!
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Well Misty I have seen Italians with more “melanin” in their skin than some Japanese people do. But I bet you wouldn’t let them into one of your school “POC” clubs. Laugh at me all you want I just think you are being hateful and wrong.
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and If you think I give two loads of excrement about you dismissing me and my opinion the way you did …think again kid. Now you can have yourself a nice year.
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Lol prime example , here it is again! I knew that was coming next , it always does. I am still a part of the “PoC” and anyone who thinks different has been brainswashed by rigid white outlooks on color. So that comment won’t work. That means anyone who isn’t white. Deal with it! And….
When you think Asians you think of pale Japanese or Northern Chinese with your brain because in your white rascist mind you go into stereotypes. There are colored asians who are as brown as African Americans , southern vietnanmese etc just as there are African Americans who are very very light like Natives or who are light and Natives who are a darker brown. There are asians just the same, so that makes no sense. We are all still PoC. Stop pushing another piece of your “Divide and Conquer Monopoly”
Also “dark” italians hahaha. What is a “dark italian”? There are “black” people in italy and lots of ethnicties who moved there who are PoC and citizens making them therefore Italians as well. There are white Italians as well. Italy is a country and a nationality. So yes there are Italians darker than me and don’t tell me you think Italian is a race and not a country. Oh dear! If you think Italian is an exclusive race you must think think there are 180 races!
Secondly, I am not Japanese and Asians are from Asia. (did you know that but you wouldn’t know because “everyone looks a like except whites.” You jumped to conclusion about my coloring because of your rascist concieved notions. I am browner than all “white” italians except for the ones who insist on tanning with paint much darker than them to look “thin” not like. PoC. Yes but I can be “lighter” than a “black/colored” Italians who happens to be a chocolate brown because he is a “PoC” and I canbe the same shade as a black italian who is medium range. But who cares about color? (Wait whites do) We and our “PoC” club have melanin , “whites” do not. And whites therefore are very hateful “the real term for the sugarcoated cutie term” rascists because we do.
I love the “PoC club”, we are diverse hahha.
Have a great day Dave, this has been fun! Ciao.
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Next White Step. Demeaning to feel powerful hence the title “kid” , notice I did not use “kid” or “hun” when speaking to Dave but he did to me? In America , we know calling a grown person kid during a chat is mircoaggression.And you too Dave! Have a great 2013! May I wish you all the best. Goodnight people, interesting site, very controversial.
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Ok so you will only end the debate when you get the last word in but since I AM of Italian decent I must tell you I’m not talking about African Italians. I’m talking about Italians from Naples like some of my ancestors are that are pretty dark. I think it has more to do with generations of fishermen that have naturally developed darker skin then race mixing(which i’m sure occurred as well) But I think I know a little more about my ancestors then you do. And the fact that YOU YOURSELF aren’t Japanese isn’t relevant to the fact that Japanese Americans are now considered POC and by your definition that has everything to do with the amount of “Melanin” in their skin. I’m saying that is not the only factor because as I realize there are Asians who are dark there are some that are pretty light. I don’t think that’s the factor of “POC” movement. I think it is more of a political movement then a civil rights term.
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By the way Misty whether you know it or not you were rude to me first. I assumed you were a kid because most adults don’t talk to other adults the way you did. My mistake. Has nothing to do with your race.
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Hahahahaha. Your last few sentences totally revoked your creditably.
You are still “white” Dave.
And even “whiter” in your idealogy. It shows, all “debates a side.
Fine, I’ll even call you. “The White Italian” since it makes you feel more cuddly with PoC while still being “hateful”. You need to read Abagond’s post of “growing up white” and see how it mentions Italians and Jews and their issuses with “coping” with their race. I also don’t care what you you think, I know it’s terrible that your “white” opinion is not looked at as “god” in my eyes.
Lol don’t try to backtrack your condescensing atttiude with back hand comments Dave (look down fast, your whiteness was showing). Not once did I outright call you a “stupid igorant boy” I may have called you rascist (which is the truth , watch The Bluest Eye which pertains to all white people not just “anglo”). But did I insult outright you as you attempted and still are with me? Hahahaha. No. I did not. Please stop being passive aggressive.
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To Abagon, the “internment camps/ concentration camps” of the 1940s Japanese and other people who “looked like them” are dampered. It had a tiny paragraph. California had signs that said “No filipinos” for decades and they worked in mining camps (african americans worked along side them and the white men couldn’t tell) and they were jumped and beaten. For every filipino woman there were ten men (california history). Also there was the Orange Grove School cases. Whites did not want Mexican children in their schools, they boycotted them in California and removed their children. It was a hot bed issuse. They don’t speak of these stories much , just one paragraph very tiny. And for the blacks , the signs said no coloreds which meant all races who were not white. And you can bet my grandfather was not allowed at a lunch counter either. He’d get killed or lynched or his store set to flames. He told me when I was a young girl of all those terrible stories. It wasn’t only blacks like whites claim so they can seem like they love everyone “else”. It was all of us PoC. That’s why I see a huge connection between everyone (except whites) and I don’t care if they deem me as a “rascist”. They call PoC rascists when their smoke and mirrors have dissipated and shattered.
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Seriously Dave…. Whites do not consider Japanese as white… Never have. Never will : unless they need something to use against someone. Japanese and Asians are looked at as foriengers… Like all people who are “Not white” (that’s how “most” whites see it in Eurocentric societies. Which makes them PoC vs. “White ppl”. I think this topic has lost my attention.
You think Japanese are “racially” white?
No you don’t.
Stop that!
Hahahaha oh dear! But darn I need to go to bed. I don’t see what debating this any further will do because your opinion is worthless to me as mine is to yours. Hahaha. This still makes me want to celebrate White History Month. You can’t stop me or any PoC who wants to join in from celebrating it. Goodnight!
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@Misty I never said they were white. I am simply challenging your position of “melanin” being the chief ingredient of being a “POC”. You basically said all non “POCs” are pink and pasty and that is why they hate “POCs”. I’m really not a fan of the term and think you are sort of riding the real heroes of the civil rights movement’s coat tails.
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I’m Irish as well and I don’t approve of being called “the white Italian” If you do I will ask Abagond to remove it.
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and not for nothing I’m sure Abagond has good insight of the subject of Ethnic Europeans and “Before they were white” But don’t you think first hand insight from people like my Grandfather who was a first generation immigrant who got here when he was 8 years old in 1914? We have books on the subject and they were written by Irish and Italian immigrants. I am very aware of what you speak of but you don’t get to put your spin on my family history.
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@mary burrell, thank you. It has been very engaging talking to a lot of people on this site. I hadn’t been taking care of education in recent years and my general knowledge had slumped. I have to remember work to live not live to work.
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Okay why get so offended? That’s a fact.
“You are ‘white'” and you claimed you are Italian. So I smooshed together and said “white italian” as one would sat “white american” etc no matter if your people are indigeounous to Italy (which would be your ethnicity). Your race Dave… What is your “race?’ , regardless of ethnicty. Sorry the boxes are so rigid but that is white idealogy. Society percieves you and “white” italians as “white” therefore giving you white benefits and society and therefore giving you white idealogy , the “white frame of mind”. Why so shocking?” Your whiteness is showing” and I will say it again.
Yes you keep calling me an asian female a kid or girl. A child. How is that not up for deletion as well? Don’t play innocent and back pedal that. You are acting as a “white” male talking down to an asian female.
“Riding the coat tails” lol don’t try to belittle my statements about PoC being treated like crud by white people in general and seperated. I am riding the coat tails because they spoke the truth. Sorry most “white or whatever name you choose to give yourself) Italians wanted to be percieved as white and even get “peeved” when the genetics of their ancestory is mentioned by others. Even I noticed this. So if you choose to embrace yours , go for it but if you use it like it’s a fence to drop over. You are white one day and “not” the other than smh….Yes, I’ve studied their ancestory and history (even went to study in college , I had to) as well but “white” Italians call themselves white. So “white” Italians naturally they are seen as “white”. So now you are Irish, another nationality, as long as you aren’t confusing nationalty and ehnicity to race then GOOD. Now pick a race construct made by “whites” , preferably your anglo counterparts. Notice the quotes. There aren’t white people just a social construct. You fall in the white category. I am sorry but it is true , you may not be anglo but you are seen as white. I never once said you were “pasty”, sheesh. You are now seeing things. And why do you care about how I make “whites” skin sound if you are not “white” just Italian.
“White” is in quotes.
Race is not a neo matter bursting with creativity. It’s old and still going on. So I’ll borrow from whomever I want. I won’t get offended if you called me a Brown Vietnamese American because that is what I am!!! Really Dave. How is “white” Italian any different than saying “black” american which you more than likely use?
Are you offended I did not include you as a PoC? Because of the social construct lots of “white” italians fought to be seen as white to the rest of Europe and the world. Well you now are and even if you don’t agree , you must lie in it and get the benefits. So awful! Oh no!
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Dave, your grandparents were bullied by the ethnocentrism which europeans and western nations have in general. This is before you were seen and accepted as “white” and if you aren’t you certainly are considered white now. And whites say “even an other white is better than the others”.
Also, “White Italians” won’t consider themselves as PoC because it would be it would “ruin” their “passing” by anglos. You Dave do not consider yourself “of color”, obviously that is why you responded the way you did. You sympathisize and relate with whites regerdless of how your Anglo Saxon others. That is why you had a quick reaction. You see everything through a white lense obvious in your demeaning behavior as calling a female of another race a “girl.” If you did see yourself as a PoC you wouldn’t have commented as such to my first commented. You felt targeted meaning you identified with whites so regardless of your Italianess you side with white idealism of one group must rule another because of race and science and if you don’t say so you sure as heck acted on it.
Unconciously or conciously.
You were affected by me commenting on whites and responded meaning you were white. So you can never relate to PoC. Italians get more leway because they are seen as “white.” A bw can be sassy and she’s angry but a “white” Italian woman does it and it’s cute and sassy or “hot tempered”. “White” Italians wanted to be seen as equal to “Anglo Saxons” but turn into a PoC at total convience. But NOW the “white italians” are seen as “white”. I don’t get it Dave, you obviousuly see a through a white lense. So you aren’t a PoC nor can you identify fully. Italians “whites” can stand in a crowd in the city and be seen as white (the other white but still above all others – the “brown” ethnic people) same goes for jewish people. If a well dressed “white italian” walks into the store and a metizo does right after. Who gets followed? The well dressed metizo because he is a metizo. Anyone who can not pass for being a indigenous euro white causcasion regardless of hair and eye color is looked at as trash by “whites” and the “other” whites Italians who adopted that same idealogy and was bred with it. You identify with white , your reaction was white so you are now “white.” Sorry if that is to much to handle.
And yes Dave , so you are now “white”.
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@Misty…. If you want to make a blog about White History Month and make it exclusive only to (POC) commenters go ahead. Why would I care if I couldn’t comment anyway. I do think it’s pretty hypocritical to sensor the people you are talking about, but that is your choice… I won’t be holding up any picket signs any time soon about it. Just gave you my opinion that if there was a term that excluded Asians you might not like it. I don’t like the term (POC) that is my right to have an opinion. You don’t have to be so rude about it. That’s why I snapped back a little you haven’t backed off from your rudeness so I would rather not continue with you. If you want to refer to me as “The white Italian” I think that is a little worse then saying oh he is a white american who has some Italian decent. If you can’t see the difference you are blinded by your hate. I’ll leave it at that.
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You didn’t like it when I called you kid . How bout I call you “The Yellow Asian Woman” don’t think you would like that. Oh but wait… why is it bad? I mean you have some melanin, which some people call “Yellow”, you are “asian”,… and you are a woman.. But you would read between the lines, and know that is pretty rude to say. So I would appreciate not being referred to as “THE white Italian” Okdokey….Just because you are rude to a white person doesn’t make it ok how about this concept be nice to all humans.
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I know I said I’ll leave it at that. But one more thing. I DO get followed in stores. I DO get looked at funny on the rare occasion I pick my kids up at school. (My wife usually does it). EVERY TIME i’ve been pulled over and it’s more than 15 the officer ALWAYS called for backup. I HAVE been excluded by some of the Irish side of my family attending St. Pattys day parties. I HAVE BEEN asked my some member’s of my wife’s uncles inlaws…. I’ll bet you know how to make some good sauce? “Oh i’ll bet he calls it gravy…. let me guess when you cook the spaghetti sauce with the meat it’s gravy right… right? HA HA HAHAHA” “OH I KNOW HE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE SOME PIZZA!!!!”
So you will excuse me if I’m a little sensitive about the subject of being a ethnic looking Italian.
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*Yanks out trusty notebook*
Day 2 begins:
Lol Dave, what are you trying to prove in you argument? That you are not a racist? All I’ve seen is that you resorted to ad hominenes (attacking my intelligence and age) a thousand times in favor of white people.
Then you resort to but “I deal with it too” are you trying to deny PoC get it harder than the white people you are standing up for?
All of you arguments are standing for protecting whiteness.
“Whites” call themselves white collectively and do it with pride. That would only work for “whites”(not PoC) and “blacks” (who are PoC like me). Whites say white america , white pride and even bubble it in etc. It is a social contrust used for “race politics” and perfectly normal to use that term “white”. So you are a “white male” and if you find that an insult , you have “white guilt.”
Sorry , if you have to live with it.
Lol also Asians do not call themselves yellow , no one does except for a “slur”! No one say ‘”red” natives (all PoC). We don’t say “yellow nation” but you “whites” will call yourself white in an instant (isn’t that what the Italians did for priveledges that come with being white). And whites created that term to uphold themselves as “pure , etheral creature race” vs the meanie “dark ethnic others”. So don’t squirm when it backfires.
Regardless of what you are saying everything you fight for is causcasoid /white/ indigeounous european/”eurocentric or whatever you choose to call yourself because it benefits your stance for the week” . All this is done to dimish PoC struggles.
And that’s funny you bring up the Irish , who are seen and benefit as present day “white” (loving your social construct , I bet you do , only when it helps your cause) same as the “white” Italian” , the term I will stand by until the day I die. Why? Because he benefits and has white priveledge as well even though he isn’t his Anglo who he wants to be embraced by. Your Irish family made fun of you from Ethnocentrism which is very common and strong along “white” people not because of your “whiteness/race”. The Polish made fun of Russians. The French and Spanish were nasty to each other. Because of their different ethnicities that is where their term comes from which is NOT the same as their white race and yes you included. The “white” race hates other ethnicities of the “white race”.
Bahahahaha and “but this happens to me yadda yadda” experience is a laughable last resort. You are tring to dimish PoC experience in the world by saying “oh it’s nothing , It happens to me too, it’s not over your race.” So we should forget it happens to PoC BECAUSE OF OUR SKIN SHADES because it doesn’t. Are you saying if a black male or mexican male walked in next to you well dressed they would not be followed first , you would? Wow! I didn’t know that! Now really Dave. You tell me!
At the end of the day you are making rebuttals for the white race. There isn’t a clear line which you want to make in your arguments except for you identify with “whites”. Period. Lol you can’t argue that.
And I don’t care if I “offend you”, I am not here to cater to your feelings but you may think I am supposed (because you are white and I am not). Let’s not yank your emotions into this. And “whites” Dave lol notice the quotes around the term. I am guessing you didn’t. Because you will see what you want on this blog? You didn’t see that photograph as a family dying together scared to death. You didn’t see a little innocent girl dead so you gave no emotional reaction to seeing torture. You saw an attack on “whiteness” and felt as if it was a slap to your race. When confronted with the truth you had nothing to say but fighting for your attacked cause.
When called out you fell on “I am Italian” (a white one).You argue like a white racist , benefit from white racist because you are percieved as white. So Dave , what are we speaking about here?:
How much I offended you?
How mean I am?
How you had things happen to you so it’s not racist when it happens to PoC?
How you find the horrible photo of PoC hanging from the hands of whites bias on PoCs side?
How you use dozens of counter_diversions to derail from my original topic?
How I should feel sorry for you and your whiteness and its benefits that YOU benefit from?
Are we speaking of how “childish” “or hateful” I am?
How you don’t think PoC are followed more than you will ever be while shopping?
You feel excluded from “the PoC Club” and I shoulder cater to your feelings because you feel entitled to join because of your whitness and your privelegdes? Ignoring the fact that its White People Day anti PoC all year round?
Or maybe we can talk about white ethnocentrism and how it makes you think you can tell exactly what accounts for PoC “race problems” what and how to feel?
Notice how I said ETHNO not a “Racialcentrism”?
More topics you are trying to bring up:
Or do you think WHM (white history month) Abagon’s way is to harsh for you to swallow? Abagon just put up titles of events in history , what is so wrong with it?
Or how you think I should join the “white idealogy” side as an Asian and you are disturbed by the order of the matter. And you feel as if the “natural” order is threatened?
Or how you deny you have any part in white priveledge?
Or are you irked that PoC are realizing they all have something in common , the race you identify with with and benefit from is the same race that turned PoC against each other with sick constructs to uphold your image?
Do you not want to see unity and think , if an asian female feels this way we are screwed? I thought they were our lap dogs.
Does this threaten your race’s collective conscious that PoC should united regardless of ethnitcity like ALL other white ethnicities suddenly scramble to do against PoC worldwide?
See, whites come together. They come together for the hatred of PoC and of course you hate that term. It mades united and you know the saying. Our ignorance was your (whites bliss).
So check off one. But mind, what are we building up to? Are you trying to say ,”gosh darn Misty you are so racist. How would you feel?” Sure call me whatever you like. Hahahaha I think it’s nice you fight for whites, reacted to this post like white male, responded to my post like a white male and identified as a white male so you are white.
What are we getting at Dave, you feel a few pictures of “black PoC being lynched is bias and I as an asian PoC can’t relate”? Or is seeing all your history (or what you associate with regardless of ethnicity) printed on this website plainly to much to bare? I go by initinal reaction before your concious speaks and rationalizes things. And your initial reaction to a family one male and two females , one a woman and the other a young girl (shown by her style of dress) being hung to their deaths because of their race was flatline. Even to feel attacked as a “white” regardless of how “Italian” you are … That photograph and your reaction how sad. Smh…….
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I apologize from my typos everyone interested in PoC struggles wordpress community! It was a free type. We all can’t be english majors typing at a thousand words a minute haha.
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Wow!!! Misty. I’ve have truly enjoyed reading your commentary. *STANDING OVATION* 😀
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Abagond,
what is the story behind the picture at the beginning of this post (of the hanging man, woman, and child)?
who are they? when and what happened?
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@ Legion, no problem take your time. I over estimated the amount of time I had and it has been hective. I would say new baby, moving and trying to make sure I get my taxes done has kind of eaten up most of my time. I think once we finish this visa process and move hopefully I will also have more time. Still, I have job hunting to look foward to especially if I don’t want to teach. Which right now I would like to take a huge break from.
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@ Linda
Excellent question! I wish I knew.
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@ Linda
Now I am starting to wonder about that picture. It is too artistic looking or something compared to most lynching pictures:
http://www.afrostyly.com/english/afro/diverse/lynchings.htm
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@ dave
If MistyNyugen didn’t set your BS detector off then you need to have it recalibrated. I’m not convinced s/he is even asian. Probably a sockpuppet.
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Oh, my Dear Abagond,
This is why I love your blog so. You are opinionated (in a good way), you know how to push buttons, and yet you do so in a clever and intelligent fashion. I sincerely mean this as a compliment.
Three poor, tortured black souls hanging from a tree, followed by your first entry for required reading by white authors is Howard Zinn and his bible for the Left. Perfect.
Black History Month: righteous, good people who helped advance their race, and society overall.
White History Month: Refer to picture under the title of this blog entry.
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Melanin is also a component of hair and eye color. Even pale skinned Japanes have more melanin in thes organs than whites. Problem solved. Italians do not have dark skin from being in the sun, it is. African DNA.
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Sorry for the typos I posted that last comment from my phone.
It should say:
Melanin is also a component of hair and eye color. Even pale skinned Japanese have more melanin in these organs than whites. POC problem solved. Italians do not have dark skin from being in the sun, those with darker skin tones have African DNA.
Here is an study abstract on African ancestry to to Italian gene pool.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2480742
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Eshowoman… I realize the average japanese person has more melanin than the average Italian person. I guess I wasn’t clear enough. I said there are “SOME” dark Italians that have more melanin. Not of average. The whole point was not to get into a science lesson, but to point out that the “POC” club is more then about how light or dark you are. I think It excludes a certain group of people and I think it’s BS.
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But since you brought it up although there may be some African DNA in Southern Italians. That is only one factor. It’s not like it’s 25% african it may be 2-5%. If anything you would find more Greek and Arab DNA than African. Also Lower elevation and closer to the equator make a difference then people who live up in the Alps. That does have to do with the sun.
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Actually you would find more African dna in Southern USA whites with blone hair and blue eyes than full blooded Southern Italians. Has all to do with race mixing during and after Slavery.
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http://news.yahoo.com/britain-india-diamond-royal-crown-ours-000950576.html
“I don’t think demanding it back is the right apporach,” Cameron said. “My people benefited greatly from your oppression, so CLEARLY I know better how to handle your mistreatment than you do”
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1st time I’ve seen a photograph showing lynched Black women. WOW.
White people don’t get how they appear to other people. They just don’t see themselves for all they’ve done — not just to non-White people but to the very earth itself. Look at all the pollution and destruction of the environment.
They’re not superior to me. I’m not saying that Blacks/non-Whites are superior to White people, but I know for sure that they are not superior to any other racial group. They’ve proven that.
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that picture makes me want to throw up
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There are pinnate palm fronds in the bottom of the photo. Generally only Palmate palms (eg, Palmetto and other fan palms) grow naturally north of Florida (but some species of Pinnate palms are now being cultivated there due to either winter protection or global warming, eg, Pindo palms or some species of dates).
So, this picture is unlikely from the mid- or upland South but only right along the Gulf Coast or Florida Atlantic coast if it is in the USA at all.
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1st time I’ve seen a photograph showing lynched Black women. — pkayden
You still haven’t. The picture is fake.
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@ Churchs
How do you know the picture is a fake?
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I know it’s fake because I remember seeing it a few years ago as part of a story about the black photographer/artist who took it. I didn’t say anything before now because people would just call me a “liar”. But I’ve since run across an article saying there is only one known picture of a woman being lynched… and that ain’t it.
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@Churchs
So you are denying that the lynchings of Black women and Black men in the last nineteenth century to twentieth century?
Sad to say but the lynchings of Blacks in America did happen.
Stop being delusional and read a History book or do some research.
Ignorance really is bliss especially from someone like yourself!
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@ Adeen
Women were lynched but the picture could still be a fake.
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I think that in order for a photo to be classified as “fake” it must have been created with the intent to pass it off as genuine. For example, what if I was writing a book entitled “Strange Fruit” all about Southern lynchings? What if I had an illustrator or photographer create an image to represent both the men and women who were lynched throughout the years for the book’s cover. That image would not be a “fake,” it would be a a dramatized image, or perhaps a reenactment, but that is different. There is a difference.
http://www.etsy.com/listing/94404131/civil-war-reenactment-fine-art?ref=correlated_featured
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Well the mobile version of wp here wont let me authenticate with facebook but I think checking the palm fronds out and what not crosses the line from pedantic to prurient but im not a steganographer. This pic just brings to mind the question for if by some fluke of fate I got custody of my (white) children I wonder how they would fare going to public school in my all black section of town. I dont know why that is so, it just is. It is certainly nothing I can do to change the situation on the ground so to speak. thanks for letting me share.
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I read the article several years ago so the details were sketchy. I seem to recall something about it being some “event” where they put on harnesses and were suspended for maybe half an hour. It was some kind of performance art or something.
But apparently I was mistaken about that being the source for the photo because I just found the picture on an Indian website. The photo is in color and the article talks about it happening in India. At the time the article was written it was unknown whether it was suicide or murder.
Warning for graphic image. .
http://goo.gl/Sf0uv
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@churches well that is interesting… dont know how you found that but…
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^ Yep, good detective work, finding it on a Tamil website.
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Agreed. nice detective work, Church’s!
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@Church
Sorry for my response and good research.
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@ Churchs
Thank you!
@ All
The picture is not a fake but it is not what Americans would assume it to be from a low-quality photograph. It is a picture of two sisters (ages 15 and 17) and a boyfriend (a 27-year-old soldier) in an apparent triple suicide in Eppawala, Sri Lanka in December 2011.
By Google translating the Tamil news stories I was able to find the same story on English-language news sites. Here is one:
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2011/12/11/three-youth-found-dead-in-eppawala/
The post mortems show that all three died of hanging, though it is unknown how they hung themselves so high off the ground.
A longer, more interesting gossipy version is here, apparently based on what the mother of the two girls said:
http://www.english.gossiplankanews.com/2011/12/three-mysterious-deaths-at-eppawala.html
More pictures of the same thing:
http://www.gossip9.us/2011/12/three-youth-found-dead-in-eppawala.html
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I replaced the picture at the top of the post.
old picture:

new picture:

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Abagond…While your initial photo was not of “White History” in America, ALL of those on this site are (check out the notations on the “postcards” and pictures for a real feel of the inhumanity): http://withoutsanctuary.org/main.html
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Plenty of women were lynched. They were raped before they were lynched. I would get references from @churchs on the old pic before changing anything. We know from another post he has a history of twisting the truth.
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@ Eshowoman
I know about Churchs’s history. I looked into it myself. The picture was from Sri Lanka, an apparent triple suicide in 2011, probably a love triangle gone wrong.
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The Wikipedia on the Rubin Stacey lynching pictured in the post:
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I didn’t see it mentioned Cristopher Columbus, (Cristoforo Colombo” and “Cristóbal Colón”) and Amerigo Vespucci
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We know from another post he has a history of twisting the truth.
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@ jefe, king, adeen, abagond, et al..
Thanks.
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^ Church’s, I think that the takeaway here is that most of the people on this site aren’t merely brainwashed. It is quite possible to make a point or correction, and if the facts support it clearly enough, most of us will accept it, support it, and thank you for it. This is the opposite of blind fanaticism.
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Hmm. I got a “Dangerous Site” warning from my Trend Micro after I clicked on the link in Churchs’ post….
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So did I…
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@ King
I think some will. But I also think people are a lot quicker to believe evidence that supports their views than evidence that doesn’t. Or to put another way, people often accept claims without evidence when it agrees with their beliefs and demand a very higher burden of proof for claims that don’t.
So its really a matter of degree. Seeing a photo on several Sri Lankan news sites written in Tamil is very hard to deny. When it comes to less visual evidence such as statistics or a reasoned argument its a lot easier to dismiss. And that’s true for everyone.
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To Abagond:
The picture was from Sri Lanka, an apparent triple suicide in 2011, probably a love triangle gone wrong.
FWIW the Google translation..
Started to hang lover – 3 bodies, including the recovery girlfriend!
[Saturday, 10 December 2011, 02:01.28 PM GMT]
Katikava Eppawala trees in the area started in one of the bodies of three people Saturday (10.12.2011) morning has been recovered by police.
27 year old young man and two young women hang hung in oruvanatum bodies formed by the Police and the Police Media spokesman said Ajit rohana.
Uyirilant 15-year-old and 17 year old girls and women as sisters, both 17-year-old woman reported that the man had died katalane.
Suicide or murder in a yet unconfirmed at this stage, further investigations have eppavela police.
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Abagond,
You may have already heard of this but…
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/02/mad_about_black_history_month_take_some_whitehistoryclasses.html
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Yeah, I was thinking those bodies are WAY high off the ground, all close together on one short limb, and all suspended by relatively short lengths of rope — the youngest girl’s rope having been tightly wound around the limb several times.
What lynch mob bothered with all that…and why?
A length of rope, a low lying limb and a crate (pickup truck, horse or several strong men) would have been faster and less troublesome.
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My, what a sweet smile on the face of the innocent little darling standing on the left of Rubin’s murdered corpse.
Yeah, I guess ol’ Rubin got what he deserved, though! Why, the unmitigated gall of him going around begging for a bite to eat from good white folk such as the ones in the featured photo. Tsk, tsk.
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Wow, you really have to have an a psychotic racist zeal to discredit, minimize and deny the domestic terrorism suffered by black in America to do a graphics search in foreign language to find the origin of that photo. There are hundreds of pictures of lynchings at http://withoutsanctuary.org/. There are plenty of pictures of women, children an whole families being lynched and carnival like atmosphere of the gleefully brutal white crowds that gathered for this all American pastime. The reason we have so many of these images is because they were used a post cards and circulated through the U.S. mail.
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@ Brothawolf
I did hear about that. Thanks. I might do a post on it.
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What is it with whiny, racist white people coming to this thread?
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I want to add the political, economic and military undermining of Caribbean & South American countries to the list. Part of my family is from Grenada, so I will never trust American foreign policy no matter who the President is.
What is it with whiny, racist white people coming to this thread?
The way history is taught in this country has a great deal to do with it. Whites see themselves as the only people who have contributed to this country and the wrongs done to people of color are not that important in the wake of the great country that they have forged. Posts like this remind them about the extent of that racism and white nationalism has shaped this country and that POC has made extensive contributions to this country. These facts anger them and make the extremely defensive.
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@ Legion
I try to pick a picture that makes the main point of the post. For this post a lynching picture is perfect. This is the Web – you got like ten seconds to catch someone’s interest – so you need to come out with guns blazing. Most of my posts are, if anything, too understated.
The people who most need to read those books would never get past topic #6 with an open mind. This is so not the post for that. Zinn and Loewen, for example, would need a gentler introduction, which I have done:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/james-w-loewen-lies-my-teacher-told-me/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/howard-zinn/
I have also done five posts based on Loewen chapters. Any one of them could lead people to his book.
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@ eshowoman
In an earlier draft I did have Caribbean topics but took them out. You DO need to know Caribbean history to understand the U.S., but for this post I limited everything – topics, authors, subjects for school report – to White Americans and, for the most part, what they did inside the country.
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@Abagond
You may want to change the photo on this post.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/basically-good/
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@ jefe
Ouch! Thanks.
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Wow! How clever! Lets put down white people today for things they had no part in! This post is so original and different from anything I’ve ever read on this blog.
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i am so glad i found this page. i’ve had a problem reading lately, so thanks for the book list. i wondered if others actually were talking about race honestly and i’m glad to see it is so. i have a lot of reading to do. 🙂
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Thought you like my poem above Abagond.
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Africa for the Africans,
Asia for the Asians,
White countries for everyone!?
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The Zulus in Africa conquered the Hottentots.
No “anti-racists” say Africans need to integrate with millions of non-Blacks for this.
The Ottoman empire & Moorish empire stole large parts of Europe and made the Christians slaves.
No “anti-racists” say Muslim areas need to integrate with millions of non-Muslims for this.
“Anti-racists” say this about ALL & ONLY White countries. They are actually anti-White and pushing White genocide.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.
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@Minny Erva
You need to leave America because this has never been a white country.
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So by this Logic you agree that all non-Whites living in White homelands should leave then?
No, ALL and ONLY white countries are forced to except millions of 3rd world non-Whites.
Anti-racist is just a codeword for anti-White!
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“Minny Erva@
So by this Logic you agree that all non-Whites living in White homelands should leave then? No, ALL and ONLY white countries are forced to except millions of 3rd world non-Whites.”
Linda says,
There is this old saying that goes like this: “ You reap what you sow!” or
my personal favorite: “Payback is a b’tch!” – or is it “Karma”…
Too bad your white forefathers in those “All” white countries didn’t keep their “All” white a’ses home 500 years ago — in their “All” white European countries —
Nope, couldn’t have that: your white forefathers decided to travel and
invadesee the world…. mingle with the coloured folks and evenkidnap and enslaveinvited a couple of hundred back to Europe and even taught a few million non-whites how todo hard labourski and camp-out in this new and exciting tourist spot called the “Americas”Later on, they even
Colonizedoffered the Africans and Asians assistance on the best way to un-pollute their countries bystealinggetting rid of all those worthless Gem stones and mineral deposits – you know how Gold, Rubies and Diamonds lying around can be Such an eye-sore 🙂 someone had to clean up the messHope you’re keeping up with your Chinese, dear, because they just realized that America isn’t keeping up with their monthly payments and they may need to foreclose on their property in this
Never ever was a white country in the first placeformer homeland of a few million Native American Indians (and that includes Canada too — in case you plan to claim non-USA status – I love those white Canadian names like “Saskatchewan” – it’s so European)and if you are European: notice how those British, French, German and Belgian soldiers had such Great tans and wicked sun burns when they came back from Africa and the middle East … at least the Russians had enough sense to bring their own “sun screen lotion” while delivering those
guns and weaponshumanitarian care packages.I completely understand why you are probably having a hard time living with your “former” colonial non-white brothers and sisters – how dare they actually come to Europe after being invited by your “All” white government to help rebuild Europe … don’t you hate how your “All” White forefathers had to open the pot and mess it up for everyone… Schade !
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Minny Erva,
You said to be anti-racist is to be anti-white. So are you saying that you are pro-white and therefore pro-racist?
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@Linda…What a wonderfully eloquent and succinct “History” lesson! Brava! my Sister, Brava!
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@Minny
Your logical doesn’t make any sense to me. I am anti racism yet I am not against Whites. Your delusional mindset is why the Republican Party lost this election. America is NOT a White country and never has been. America is a land full of diversity of cultures and races. Anyone regardless of color and ethnicity that was BORN in this country is an American.
I am a young Black woman of Jamaican descent but I choose not to let people like you trample over minorities, gays and people who don’t think like you on this blog site at all. People like you have no place at all on here.
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@ Adeen
One thing I learned on this blog (among many others) is that type of thinking goes hand in hand with racists. I think perhaps it comes down to the fact that they have benefited so well from this type of system that they see getting rid of it as getting rid of them.
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Thank you, Deb….I do my best to assist under-educated race realists.
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@Linda…You’re more than welcome!
“I do my best to assist under-educated race realists.”
And in the tradition of Mr. James Baldwin, you do a damned good job at it!:
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@Linda- Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY White country and ONLY into White countries.
The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.
Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-Whites.
What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-Blacks were brought into EVERY Black country and ONLY into Black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane Black man to notice this and what kind of psycho Black man wouldn’t object to this?
But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.
They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.
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@ Minny Erva
I assume that somebody told you what “EVERYBODY” was saying…
Well I hate to tell you, but they got it wrong.
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*Bows to Linda* I guess you told her.
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Race realist, Is that just a dressed up word for white supremist? That’s what it sounds like to me.
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This is the third time Minny Erva stated “Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.” Isn’t that what white nationalists, white separatists, and white supremacists say? Hmm.
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@leigh 204 I think we are on the same page.
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And this Minny Erva use the words “Black Problem”. I guess we black people would be a problem to someone and those of him/her ilk.
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ROFL…LMAO..LOL. I am sorry but Minny sounds crazy as hell.
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Haha! nicely done, Linda! lol!
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Poor Minny Ervin’s 6’s and 7’s are askew.
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@Minny
And you see nothing wrong with Whites being on top of the social, economic, political hierarchy while Blacks and other minorities are on the bottom and disenfranchised? I guess you are scared because the White population in America is decreasing and you want to be on top of the social, economic and political hierarchy of this nation at the expense of minorities in this country. Oh well, times are changing yet people like you wouldn’t change!
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Nobody says “let’s import MILLIONS of non-Blacks into EVERY & ONLY Black countries until Blacks become a minority, FORCE assimilate them into EVERY black community to create a “blended humanity”, give them Affirmative Action & free health care and push miscegenation 24/7 via movies/t.v shows & media(only in black countries)”
THEN, when the Blacks object we call them RACIST!
Or course not.
They only call WHITES “racist” for objecting to their own geNOcide.
Anti-racist is a >code< for anti-White
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Minny, who is the one who started importing Blacks into Western countries and why?
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Minny, I think your beef should be with elite top of the food chain whites. They don’t care if white numbers dwindle. They figure the way they set it up they will still be on top and there is less competition to knock them down. They are the enemy to us all.
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“Minny Erva @Nobody says “let’s import MILLIONS of non-Blacks into EVERY & ONLY Black countries until Blacks become a minority, FORCE assimilate them into EVERY black community to create a “blended humanity”, give them Affirmative Action & free health care and push miscegenation 24/7 via movies/t.v shows & media(only in black countries)”
THEN, when the Blacks object we call them RACIST!”
Linda says,
Are you high? or just a ranting “pro-white” advocate who insists on pushing “nationalist front” propaganda on a non-white blog for kicks and giggles…
Your party(s) new slogan is ridiculous to the extreme: “Nobody wants to import MILLIONS of non-Blacks (white) into their black country(s)” — really, is this the new theme you all are pushing to justify your Hate … GTFOH with that bullsh’t!
Nobody NEEDS to import “white” people: your white arses don’t stay home anyway! your white forefathers went to BLACK countries all by themselves — they didn’t even wait for an invitation. That’s why,
White people can currently be found in every “crack and crevice” on this planet (just like roaches) — you all don’t stay home!
(Even the poor Polar bears in the Artic are still trying to figure out “what the h’ll happened–where did all these ‘white’ people come from?”
When our black and brown ancestors finally
overthrewconvinced their white “Imperialist” uninvited guests to relinquish control of the government — most of the white people ran back to Europe or America as fast as the plane could fly because they refused to be governed by Black people and work for Black people.….no one forced them to leave…they just didn’t want to assimilate (like how black and brown immigrants have to in white majority countries) and be the minority in a black/brown majority country.
and the white people who did stay and continue to move to these Black countries — are Most welcomed. Our governement(s) would take more of you (white people) if you wanted to come (but only if you leave your guns and white racist attitudes at home)
As far as your fear of “miscegenation” — once again, we have your white forefathers to “Thank” — due to their inability to keep their white d’cks in their pants and not sleep with the black “help” — there has always been a “blended” society in America — so that’s not anything new, darling,– going 200 years + strong…the new generation of white people are just following tradition.
….so please, have no fear and feel free to move to Black countries with your ENTIRE white families — we would WELCOME you — because eventually your white children will give birth to more dark-skinned children and increase our population (we are currently losing too many of our citizens to America)
— and the added bonus for your offsprings, is that they will learn to speak more than 1 language (unlike most white Americans)
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@Linda.
Way to lay claim! Wooohooo!
Preach! 😀
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“Dave @ Minny, I think your beef should be with elite top of the food chain whites. They don’t care if white numbers dwindle. They figure the way they set it up they will still be on top and there is less competition to knock them down. They are the enemy to us all.”
Linda says,
Dave, you have a point because from the very beginning, the white elites in Europe were running the show. They exported the white lower classes and criminals out of Britian and Europe to America in order to “cleanse” their countries.
The rich British/Europeans still ran the show in America back then and continued to import white people to do labour in the Americas
– and when their cheap white livestock started to die off – they imported Africans –and deliberately intermixed with the Indians as one way to solve their “ native Indian” problem
America, from its beginning, was designed to house white European people who were from the bottom of the totem pole in European society – the white Elite did not want to take care of them or give them equality, so the fastest way to
killget rid of them was to transport them OUT of Europe.if the white British (soon to be “American”) elites had really cared about the American colonies being a “white country” from the start – then they wouldn’t have imported so many African slaves and opened up the flood gates for other “non-white” cheap as dirt labour (immigrants) — but they did import “non-whites” so that they could maximize their profits – America has been and always will be about Money
That’s why I don’t feel sorry for white Americans like Minny because they choose to be willfully blind to their own country’s history and their actual place in the grand scheme of things —
these pro-white nationalist want to promote America as some fictional “indigenous” white country that got invaded by coloured people — instead of accepting the truth — they were born in a country that already had NON-white people in it from the start and that the majority of them come from the white rejects of Europe.
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Believe it or not, I do understand why the Europeans are currently crying about immigrants in their country (s)…. it must be hard for them because they are indigenous to Europe and they’ve never had to live with so many “non-white” people before (or rather, not for long) …
their white forefathers have always had great success in getting rid of “un-desireables” — the Jews had to learn the hard way.
and notice how the Europeans “deliberately” imported most of the African labour to their colonies outside of Europe — they were sent to the Americas.
America was the dumping ground for all the poor “rejected” white lower class people and white criminals…
the white Elite didn’t want the black people in Europe and they d’mn sure wanted to get rid of their “white” servant class rejects, who were causing trouble:
because they (poor white servant class who populated America) actually wanted equal rights in Europe: they wanted the ability not to be kidnapped and forced to fight and die in wars they couldn’t even spell — the right not starve to death or get hanged for stealing food, etc…
How come more white Americans don’t “Thank” the Europeans for kicking their white ancestors OUT of Europe.
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@Linda..“How come more white Americans don’t “Thank” the Europeans for kicking their white ancestors OUT of Europe.”
Because it’s too much like right!
And I just want you to know, I’m saving your comments on this topic with a link to this post for future reference! Because, no matter how clearly one thinks about, understands and experiences the issues you’ve addressed, NEVER have I seen them expressed so honestly and simply. Thanks, my Sister — really.
And Abagond, thanks for this particular “classroom” in which she’s been able to “school” a helluva lot of folk — despite the fact that there’ll ALWAYS be those who want to ACT like they don’t get it!
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@Linda
As a Black woman, I haven’t aware of these facts. Thank you. Now I know why people like Minnie and Churchs act the way they do. They can’t handle the truth about this country or how the country was really founded.
Truthfully most White Americans can’t accept the fact that the Founding Fathers and many of their ancestors were rapists, slaveholders, crooks and criminals. Many of them can’t accept the fact the Founding Fathers killed Native Americans for their land and that the Founding Fathers exploited the labor of African slaves to get rich. And that they forced Christianity onto their Native and African counterparts etc.
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@Linda I disagree that America was a dumping ground for poor white criminals. I think you may have that confused with Australia.
I know that both sides of my family came here escaping famine and poverty with hope of a better life. They were absolutely not criminal elements.
I think that is more the norm than criminal elements.
The Irish side came over during the great potato famine. My Italian grandfather came when he was a real young boy. He did have to steal while he was here. From coal trains to get heat for the house. Not your typical criminal tyrant like you describe.
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“dave
@Linda I disagree that America was a dumping ground for poor white criminals. I think you may have that confused with Australia.”
Linda says,
Sorry Dave but north America was used as the first dumping ground for white British/European criminals before Australia…penal transportations stopped after the American colonies won their Independance (Revolutionary War 1776) … then the British were forced to send their undesirables to Australia.
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/convict-transportation/epilogue/epilogue
so Just to be clear: I am saying that the British/Europeans sent over 2 types of white people to colonize America: poor people from the servant lower class, who were indentured themselves or were kidnapped; and criminals…
(The British government was also relieved when the crazy religious sects {Puritans, Pilgrims, etc} sent themselves over.)
Your Irish people came on another wave –the 2nd wave — the immigrant wave where the American government and white Elite wanted cheap labour because the British government outlawed and got out of the African slave trade in early 1800’s (British ships supplied America with Africans, and as shipments dwindled…the Americans got cut off)
I’ve heard conspiracy theories about how the Potato famine began and that it was a British plot manufactured to destroy the Irish – they wanted to find a solution to their “Irish” problem:
“Some landlords (British) resorted to forced emigration of their tenants in an effort to ‘solve’ the problem in Ireland. In October 1847, the ship ‘Lord Ashburton’ carried 477 Irish emigrants to North America. 177 of these people came from one estate owned by an absentee landlord. They were so poor that they were all but naked for the journey and 87 had to be clothed by charity groups in America before they could leave the ship”
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ireland_great_famine_of_1845.htm
The 3rd wave was the voluntary immigration from southern Europe — your Italian ancestors, who wanted to escape poverty —
the white American elite needed cheap labour to replace their free black slave labour — by working with the European governments — they achieved their goal of once again, getting cheap labour … that’s why America was open to immigrants…someone had to replace the slaves.
Your immigrant ancestors on the 3rd wave are really the pioneers of modern day immigration — because their reasons for immigrating: “to have a better life” are still the same reasons for the all current immigrants that decide to move to the US….so why all the hate towards immigrants? they are just carrying on a proud tradition.
Not trying to be mean, Dave, these things are a historical Fact.
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I agree with what you just said, so you were not at all mean.
You accurately pointed out that although some were criminal elements, most weren’t.
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I am glad my ability to “be fair” gave you some comfort, Dave…
but don’t lose sight of what I am saying:
the majority of those white people did not come to America of their own free will — they were not wanted by the white Elite or government in Britian / Europe ….. they were purposely exported “out” of Europe in order to “cleanse” Europe. This is what the 1st and 2nd wave was all about … the 3rd wave was about replacing their cheap labour pool after slavery ended.
People like Minny like to believe in this fairy tail that America is a “white” country founded by white people who just wanted to “be together” to raise their families in peace and harmony and black people came along and messed that up … no sir .. that’s not the way it happened.
American history likes to paint a rosy picture of this country(s) origins but the reality wasn’t pretty … the majority of the white Europeans and black Africans who formed the original population of America — were both “involuntarily” imported into America at the same time, on the whim of the white Elite to
provide cheap labour…at the expense of the original inhabitants (native Indians)
That’s why I firmly believe that this racial divide in America is a shame and a sham … with the average white American thinking they are better than black people — not realizing that their forefathers were just as low on the totem pole as far as the rich white Elite/ merchant class was concerned.
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“Adeen@ Linda
As a Black woman, I haven’t aware of these facts. Thank you. Now I know why people like Minnie and Churchs act the way they do. They can’t handle the truth about this country or how the country was really founded.”
Linda says,
Adeen, I don’t even know if it even comes down to them “not handling” the truth because many of them (white Americans) don’t even “Know” the truth.
Many things in American history were downplayed or omitted – so it could be a case of ignorance and a society that allows its white population to believe that everyone is playing on the same Level playing field…
Every society has rules and America was founded and built it’s wealth on the backs of slave and cheap labour… and the white Elite are not stupid – they rigged the game from the very beginning.
Human beings have a “pack” mentality (just like other animals that live in and hunt in groups) and in order for the “pack” or “group” to function, there has to be a Heirachy.
Everyone who functions according to the rules of the group, get their share of the pie (and that depends on the pecking order) and Anyone who goes outside the groups norms or breaks the rules, are punished and are pushed down the line in the pecking order.
The Africans didn’t even get the opportunity to be “pushed” down – they were immediately placed at the very bottom.
The poor white servant class NEEDED to feel like they were better than someone else because their lives Sucked too; enter the Africans, “what could be worse than being black African, right?” —
so by being “imported” to America, the white British/European servant class went up by 1 notch in the pecking order … finally, someone else was at the bottom of the totem pole.
(that’s why white people in America would rather die than admit they had African blood – notice they are all 1/16th native Indian – maybe the new generation is different? Don’t know)
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Adeen, here is an article I read that discusses just how America’s racist society shamed people with African heritage to deny their ancestry:
O.S.B. Wall was born a slave in the 1820’s, he spent a lifetime fighting for civil rights, but today is forgotten because his children grew up to become white people.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2011/02/orindatus_simon_bolivar_wall.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_chunky
Could you imagine what would happen if DNA testing was mandatory…
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America was founded and built it’s wealth on the backs of slave and cheap labour — linda
I said it on another thread and received such a warm response it bears repeating. 90% of American household wealth was created in the last 40 years.
As for “cheap labor”. Mules and donkeys are cheap labor. Oxen are cheap labor. You don’t hear anyone claiming that mules, donkeys and oxen built the country.
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That may be true, and America was not considered a “rich country” at the end of the Civil War. But also recall that Blacks were still forced into free labor (Sharecropper system, Work Farm prison system) and dramatically underpaid labor for many decades thereafter. Clearly that represents a significant contribution.
Now, about wealth. Well-managed wealth grows exponentially, but the hardest part about making wealth is in first reaching the critical mass needed to get the ball rolling. This is the reason why the founding officers and investors of Facebook, Apple and Google are so well compensated even though their contributions do not represent a significant percentage of financial profits today. It is recognized that their initial investments of time, effort, and personal sacrifice, made all the rest of the wealth accumulation that followed, possible.
In the same way, the Black American contribution to the early American economy, based on the export of Tobacco, Cotton, Sugar, and Corn, etc. represented a significant chunk of the “seed money” necessary for U.S. growth and prosperity.
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@ Linda Thanks for the link on O.S.B. Wall never heard of this man. This man was was a freedom fighter for black people and it is tragic that he wasn’t recognized as a one of the liberators for his people. Again I think this is just sad. O.S.B. Wall is why we should have black history. He is an important figure, And instead he is lost in obscurity. Very sad indeed. Thanks for the link I never heard of this man.
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@ Linda& Adeen; And the fact that his children choose to identify as white is messed up as well. So they chose not to identify with their black bloodline.
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@ king
First, 70% of sharecroppers were white not black. And, second, it’s not true that most wealthy people inherited their money. Your own examples of Facebook, Apple and Google demonstrate this. They’re all billionaires and they ALL made it themselves. None of them inherited it. in fact, 86% of the millionaires living today are self made. Only 14% were born wealthy.
People have this idea that there is only so much wealth to go around and that rich people are hoarding it. But its not true. People become wealthy by creating value. Other people are poor because they haven’t created as much value. How does someone else creating more value keep you from becoming wealthy? It doesn’t. It makes it EASIER for you to become wealthy.
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What?? When did I say that?>>
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@Mary and Linda
I find it so messed up that his kids wanted to pass as White. I know it was common for fair skin Blacks back in the late 1800s, early 1900s and into the early 1960s to pass as Whites in order to have a better life and more opportunities in their lives.
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good, concise article here… i have been thinking alot about the reconstruction period in the greater context of global industrialization and people flocking to the urban centers, in general, I think there is a higher order takeaway in there somewhere but I’m still working on it.
http://suite101.com/article/comparing-american-and-russian-emancipation-a162261
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@ king
On second read, it does sound like I was attributing that belief to you. But I wasn’t talking about you, specifically. I’m saying there is a general perception which isn’t true.
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Yes, but Black tenant farmers were exploited even worse than were White ones. And a very high percentage of the Black American postbellum population were ensnared into sharecropping after having just been chattel slaves.
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@ v8driver
Interesting article. Thanks
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“Churchs@
I said it on another thread and received such a warm response it bears repeating. 90% of American household wealth was created in the last 40 years”
Linda says,
Why are you even here?
I am not talking about “what periods in American history that saw the most increased economic growth or what cyclical periods show how personal household wealth benefited from this increase” — your discussion with King should have stayed in the other post.
I am talking about how America, as a Nation, became and secured itself as a Rich country in the 1700’s and 1800’s, that needed to import “Cheap labour” (like your white and black forefathers) to help it continue to grow and be PROFITABLE …
I am talking about how America grew to be the global financial powerhouse it became — and that happened on the backs of cheap labour because “Productivity” is a factor that determines the prosperity of a Nation
from the Beginning, America was all about making money; that’s what businesses do – make money: by buying low and “selling high” — create at the lowest cost and “sell high” — low labour costs equals “higher profits” – that’s the advantage of having cheap labour (that’s why China is now ahead)
No one moves to a Poor country to “gain personal wealth and find a better life”, so don’t come here acting Naive…people in the 1800’s immigrated to America because it had become a rich country that needed Cheap labour –
America was the leader in Manufacturing and Agriculture; Tobacco and the Industrial Revolution made America a “Wealthy and Prosperous” country: “The rise of the steel industry in the United States drove America’s growth as a world economic power”
http://www.history.com/topics/iron-and-steel-industry
Why do you think the world conducts business in US Dollars, churchs … do you think that was an accident or everyone felt sorry for America, so they let America be the “financial leader” just because:
“representatives of most of the world’s leading nations met at Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, in 1944 to create a new international monetary system. Because the United States at the time accounted for over half of the world’s manufacturing capacity and held most of the world’s gold, the leaders decided to tie world currencies to the dollar”
http://economics.about.com/od/foreigntrade/a/bretton_woods.htm
and guess what, even in a recession, the Elite/big Business still make money….because Industry(s) and economy(s) run in cycles…what goes up, must come down…but America’s base wealth more or less remains because of government regulations and market corrections (national and global).
big corporations and the Elite have always ran this country — they control the government and the macroeconomic forces that affects the Nations wealth, personal household wealth, and markets changes/ consumerism…and this has been going on Longer than 40 years.
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“there’s a mythology in the United States that America kind of got rich as a result of entrepreneurial activity and free markets and lack of regulation. And for sure those were important elements, but what we need to understand is for most of our history—from about 1800 until about 1950—we acted, economically, pretty much the way China does today.”
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@ king
Yes, but Black tenant farmers were exploited even worse than were White ones.
How?
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How?
Well for instance, A sharecropper who owned his own tools and perhaps a few horse or mule could pay much less to the landowner, usually about a third of each crop. But if not, the sharecropper often had to buy these items at expensive rates from the landowner and thus become an indentured servant until the loan was payed off—which often was never allowed to happen.
Now, how many newly emancipated slaves owned a plow or a mule? But many of the Whites who came to tenant farm were those who had failed farm ventures of their own. They had little money but in many cases they did have their farming tools and often an animal or two. In this way White Sharecroppers fared much better under the system than did Blacks.
But also, White tenants could go to the law if they felt they were being cheated. The balance of power was still toward the rich landowner, in most cases, but there were still certain abuses that would not be tolerated. however, Black sharecroppers could seldom go to the town sheriff to complain about how they were treated. This too made the plight of white tenant farmers less abusive that that of Blacks.
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@ Churchs
Actually (you have a knack for admitting the truth) you were asked some questions (no one refuted your link) and then because you could not answer them you ran out and I guess decided to post it on this thread. In which King gave you a similar answer to the one he gave on the last thread. Should I also repeat the question you were asked in the last thread since you believe some how things are going to be different on each thread you run to?
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correction omitting
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“mary burrell
@ Linda& Adeen; And the fact that his children choose to identify as white is messed up as well. So they chose not to identify with their black bloodline.”:
Linda says,
Mary, Deb and Adeen…
thank you for your words…as a foreigner to this country, I found American society to be an interesting study …black / brown Americans did so much in the 1800’s despite all the societal roadblocks and adversity put in their way
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@ king
But if not, the sharecropper often had to buy these items at expensive rates from the landowner and thus become an indentured servant until the loan was payed off—which often was never allowed to happen.
The first part is true. The landowner would loan the seed and equipment to sharecroppers and deduct that from his share of the profits. But the part about the loans that were never paid off isn’t. Sharecroppers were generally transient. Most didn’t even work the same land for more than a year or two.
They had little money but in many cases they did have their farming tools and often an animal or two. In this way White Sharecroppers fared much better under the system than did Blacks.
I expect you’re right about freedmen starting out with no shoes and holes in their pockets. But no one fared well under the system. After a few years everyone was doing worse than when they started out. Even the large landowners were averaging bankruptcy about every 12 years. Its a shame it took people 80 years to figure out the system just didn’t work.
>>
@ linda
I am talking about how America grew to be the global financial powerhouse it became — and that happened on the backs of cheap labour because “Productivity” is a factor that determines the prosperity of a Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_immigration_to_the_United_States
The relevant portions are found in sections 3 & 4 covering immigration from 1790 to 1930. I’ll briefly summarize. There was very little immigration from 1790 to 1830. After 1830, most immigrants were looking for cheap farmland in the midwest. After 1870, most immigrants moved to urban centers in the north to work in emerging industries. Those emerging industries are what gave the US its economic start.
I’ll leave the part about cheap labor alone. I think you got some things very confused but I don’t feel like have a long, tedious argument over it. No doubt sharina will having something to say about that.
Speaking of which…
@ sharina
Actually (you have a knack for admitting the truth) you were asked some questions (no one refuted your link) and then because you could not answer them you ran out and I guess decided to post it on this thread.
To be honest, I pretty much stopped reading the responses on the other thread. Most of them were irrational personal attacks that had little to do with the topic being discussed.
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“Church,
The relevant portions are found in sections 3 & 4 covering immigration from 1790 to 1930. I’ll briefly summarize. There was very little immigration from 1790 to 1830.”
Linda says,
No kidding, Churchs….I already covered that – those where the years when your white European and African forefathers were “imported” into America to be the mules and donkeys needed to work , aka “cheap labour”
and by the way:” productivity doesn’t equal “immigration” — productivity equals “cheap labour” — something your white forefathers provided
If you can’t follow the direction of my posts, then stop intruding with your unwelcome presence — I don’t need to you to “repeat” things to me that I’ve already covered in my previous comments to other people.
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@ Churchs
If that was the case why bring it in here? Did you think the response would be different? Did you think people would not ask you questions? I have noticed for sometime now that when people really question your stances you just disappear or ignore them. And it is really only when people ask you logical and thought out questions.
You may want to pretend it was personal attacks, but how would you know if you just stop reading. I honestly think you assume to much and that your attitude is just so biased you can’t see past w hat you believe to be true.
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Adeen and Mary,
Here is another famous person, in modern times, who is mixed-race (mother is black American, white father) passing for white.
He is a famous Hollywood actor named Tom Sizemore — he acted in “Black Hawk Down”, “Saving Private Ryan” … his black grandfather told him to keep his mixed-race heritage a secret or he wouldn’t make it in Hollywood…
but his mentioned it in this article because he was ready to “come out of the closet”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/02/tom-sizemore-one-man-show-geffen.html
but with all the drugs and alcohol problems he had, he basically ruined his career…but I always liked him
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If you can’t follow the direction of my posts, then stop intruding with your unwelcome presence — linda
I do find some of your thoughts, grammar and punctuation a little incoherent.
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“Church,
I do find some of your thoughts, grammar and punctuation a little incoherent.”
Linda says,
that’s because you are cognitively-challenged when it comes to “rational” thought processes — especially when you insinuate yourself into other people’s conversations.
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@ Linda…… About Tom Sizemore. He is such a talented actor. I pains me he wrecked his career with drug addiction. “WoW just Wow”.
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Tom Sizemore is mixed? “Shut the front door”. No wonder he got that taste for sisters.
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[…] […]
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@ Mary and Linda
Yes I heard of Tom Sizemore. Very talented man but it isn’t good that he didn’t embrace his Black heritage before hand but he was told to hide his Black heritage if he wanted to become a big movie star. I find it sad he wasted his potential on drugs.
Did any of you guys hear that Edgar Hoover was actually half Black? Edgar Hoover passed for White because of his fair skin. I couldn’t believe it because this man was such a staunch opponent of Dr. King back in the day and a opponent of Civil rights for Blacks. To me, he is a self hating Negro.
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@ Adeen….. Yes, I have heard that J. Edgar Hoover had a black bloodline. Which is probably why he had such hatred for blacks because he was fighting his own demons.
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@Mary
That could be true but deep down, he was a self hating Negro. It was obvious the way he treated his own people. People like him make me sick.
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This might shed some light (esp. point#4).
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-11-09/opinions/35281731_1_hoover-and-tolson-clyde-tolson-richard-hack
Over 100 million Americans are partially of African descent, and only 35% of them are “black”.
Until we can verify, we can only speculate the truth. One or more of his parents or grandparents may have been passing as white, and when he was a young child, it probably did not go unnoticed that he appeared to many people as part black. If so, he probably hated this.
If only all Americans would simply accept that we are all part black and fully African (except for the bits of Neanderthal DNA that remains).
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“Adeen,
Did any of you guys hear that Edgar Hoover was actually half Black? Edgar Hoover passed for White because of his fair skin. I couldn’t believe it because this man was such a staunch opponent of Dr. King back in the day and a opponent of Civil rights for Blacks. To me, he is a self hating Negro.”
Linda says,
Question, Adeen. why would you consider Edgar J. Hoover a “negro”?
His heritage and phenotype was mostly white…having “African” blood doesn’t make him black …To me, he is at the very least, mixed-race (I don’t believe in the USA’s one-drop rule)
I find it sad that people like Tom Sizemore and Edgar J Hoover lived in a country that would “punish” them for having African blood in their veins…leading them to “hate” or “hide” the very person who gave them life.
what kind of sick country forces people to deny their own family members in order to be successful and accepted as an individual by “white” society (rhetorical question — obviously US of A)
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@Linda
”Question, Adeen. why would you consider Edgar J. Hoover a “negro”?” ”
Exact question to ask me Linda.
Personally, I don’t really see J Edgar Hoover as Black GENETIC wise but by this country’s standards, J Edgar hoover and Tom Sizemore were considered ‘Black”.
Since this country was founded on racism against Blacks and White supremacy, there was a One Drop Rule that stated that one drop of Black blood makes you Black. America used that rule from the late nineteenth century all the way to the 1960s to define Blackness so that they could keep Blacks and Whites separate in a segregated society. Thus the One Drop Rule solidified America’s idea that Blackness is bad and somehow less and White is good and superior.
I didn’t make the rule at all but J Edgar Hoover and Tom Sizemore lived in a time in history where they would be considered ”Black” because of the segregation and racism of their time and the One Drop Rule. . If any White person in those days knew about their Black ancestry both Sizemore and Hoover would be considered Black.
”what kind of sick country forces people to deny their own family members in order to be successful and accepted as an individual by “white” society”
America of course.
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@Abagond. Your gunshot will go directly to your own feet.
You still try link whites of today with whites of yesterday.
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Victor,
Both kinds of whites have similar traits. And besides, they – and probably you as well – see us as one single-minded, monolithic group. Why can’t we do the same with whites?
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I don’t think this should be in November AT ALL! November is Native History Month as well as Hip Hop History month; two pieces of history that people of color already share that month……
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Ok. So using that same skewed logic of turning a month that is typically reserved for celebrating the good aspects of a group and making it about highlighting the bad, does that mean we can focus on the negatives during black history month or hip hop history month or south Asian month or Haitian heritage month, etc… Or would that be unfair to do and not drum up as much drama and pathetic back rubbing for just bashing on the whites?
It’s racism and bigotry to highlight the negatives of any race or group, except for the whites right? How pathetic! Please get real with yourself.
Not every white person is a right wing, slave loving racist, just like how not every black person is some ignorant wanna be drug selling gangster. Wanna stop discrimination, then take out the political correct bullshit around how it’s applied. Racism is not reserved or does not exist with only one group. Articles like this do nothing to help reduce racism.
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Interesting idea… I mean, this is just considering American Caucasians & there’s already so much to speak of, it’s not even scraping the surface of what hundreds of other Caucasians (notably the British, French, etc.) did in terms of racism. Imperialism, genocides, etc. That might take more than a month to teach. I guess a White History Month would be popular for the wrong reasons…
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No, there shouldn’t be a White history month because every day is White history month in AmeriKKKlan and the Westernized world. White people have privileges and the power in this country and own the media, businesses etc. And history books are usually written in the White people’s point of view most of the time as well.
And there is no such thing as reverse racism because the oppressed can’t oppress the oppressor. Racism is a system and social construct where people have more privileges and opportunities based on the color of their skin or where they came from ie Whites and where others are disadvantaged because of their skin color and where they came from ie Blacks and other minorities in AmeriKKKlan.
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[…] "There should be a White History Month in America. That way we can teach all about the things White Americans have done in history, like:Cherokee Trail of TearsJapanese American internmentPhilippine-American WarJim CrowThe genocide of Native AmericansTransatlantic slave tradeThe Middle PassageThe history of White American racismBlack CodesSlave patrolsKu Klux KlanThe War on DrugsTreaty of Guadalupe HidalgoHow white racism grew out of slavery and genocideHow whites still benefit from slavery and genocideWhite anti-racismThe Southern strategyThe rape of black slave women- MORE – […]
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[…] There should be a White History Month in America. That way we can teach all about the things White Americans have done in history, like: Cherokee Trail of Tears Japanese American internment Philipp… […]
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[…] reads: White History Month, and […]
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This would be dumb. Would you also advocate for a black history month solely about the missteps of black people, or an asian history month about the negative parts of asian history, and so on? there’s nothing inspiring about that
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ACTS 8:37
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I notice that you wont discuss the role that J EWs played in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade, controlling all of it, so much so that if a slave auction fell on a Jewish holiday it was cancelled.
And the slaves they bought were sold to them by black tribal elders, and that the first slave owner in America and one of the largest was also a black man.
And that slavery existed in Africa legally until 2007-Mauritania.
You are an ignorant negro.
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Gee, so much guilt abounds.
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Bharford
People love to throw ignorant around when they make ignorant statements that show their lack of research. The first slave owner in America was not black (and yes I know who you are referring to). There was a legal case prior to his of a white slave owner and his slave. Even Wikipedia has this information.
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They want post mine cause it’s all true
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@ The truth: Comments deleted for moderated language.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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[…] … if it taught the important things, as listed by abagond. […]
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It’s true that a lot of bad things have been done by white people. There is no denying that. But it is also true of every race of people. There is not one race that is evil while others are innocent. If no white person had ever existed, all those evil things like rape, murder and war would have still happened. In fact, do still happen at the hands of people off every color, including white.
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@ ElynnKy
It is worse than you suppose. These are not just Evil Things Done By People Who Happen to be White. No. These are things White people have done because they think of themselves as White. Racism, in other words, has made them more evil than they probably would have otherwise been.
Racism arose to excuse genocide and slavery. Instead of owning up to their mistakes or trying to do better next time, they excuse it and then go on to do more evil. Their racism has morally warped them, more than most people. They become like the Addams Family of Man’s Inhumanity to Man.
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[…] forum to critique White people and show the not-so-friendly side of United States History. Check this post […]
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Reblogged this on Brothers Perspective Magazine.
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What a awesome idea why not have a white history so I can see all the chaos that they had caused In other people lives with your things that they are trying to forget or ignore and hope that you would ignore it also.
When black Native American Indian an the Latinos don’t know that in the Bible is your true history meaning you are the true jews the Bible was written for you to learn your history so you can return back to YAH the Most High GOD.
If you would read REVELATION 2:9 the Most High God never claimed those people as his people in fact he deny them I’m talking about this so called use that are in Israel today, the MOST HIGH YAH “GOD” called them the SYNAGOGUES OF SATAN and these people are Europeans who has stolen the identity of God chosen people so they could be worship all over the world.
The White Caucasian European Americans fail to realize that the Most High God connect with his people spiritually as well as biblically and that connection is for his people only which cannot be beaten, hinged, raped or mutilated out of his people as they had done in the past.
Today white Americans are claiming to be other race of people stealing their identity and making no claim of their own. Whenever history comes aound they will see their knowning what a monster they had been to the Black Americans which they wouldn’t want to discuss but every time Black History Month comes around and they too will see their history.
To the Black Americans, Native Americans and Hispanics you are the true Jews and if you read the 1611 Holy BIBLE it’s your history book. Those people in the land in Israel today are imposters they had stolen your identity and when the Most High God returns he would know his people that is something that the White Caucasian Europeans fail to realize how connected you are to him spiritually even if they take away the Holy Bible and he will talk to those who are willing to listen and do his command.
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The self loathing is strong in this one.. It’s almost a Parody (:
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[…] German and Italian to be specific. Furthermore (and more importantly), in America, history is white history. So often people say that “black history should just be american history” as a reason why Black […]
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By the way, the anti-white Jews (who are not white) control American and European foreign policy. They own the banks and the media. So take it up with them. They’re the ones who are wiping us (white people) out through mass non-white immigration invasion, forced assimilation, miscegenation propaganda and population replacement.
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There is no race who hasn’t enslaved other races. More white slaves were taken into Africa than African slaves were taken into America. All the black slaves were enslaved by black Africans and there are still millions of black slaves in Africa TODAY, you racist anti-white hypocrites.
There is no race who hasn’t committed a long list of atrocities and genocides, you racist anti-white hypocrites.
The white race is the only one that is being deliberately wiped out (by the anti-white Jews running all white countries) through mass non-white immigration invasion, forced assimilation, miscegenation propaganda and population replacement. Is there any non-white country being invaded and taken over, replaced with whites, you racist anti-white hypocrites? Are whites invading China? Are whites invading Mexico? Are whites invading any country in Africa?
Stop being hypocrites please. There are lists like that (and worse) for every race on this planet.
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While all white countries are being invaded and repopulated by non-whites, there is not ONE SINGLE non-white country being invaded and repopulated by whites. How about that?
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@Sam Lenox
” Is there any non-white country being invaded and taken over, replaced with whites, you racist anti-white hypocrites? “—The real question should be is there any non-white country that has not been invaded and taken over by whites?
“Are whites invading China?”—Tried but failed.
” Are whites invading Mexico?”—Tried and succeeded
” Are whites invading any country in Africa?”—Tried and still are.
“How about that?”—Nice fantasy, but I prefer reality.
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@Sam Lennox:
I know they had a sale on corn liquor last week but your comments are ridiculous! Don’t drink and type.
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@Sharina
Bravo!
Oh the cruel irony! People who look like Sam Lennox have spent the past 500 years committing massive murder, theft and rape of everyone on the planet. Now their clueless descendants wail about a few refugees.
No acknowledgement of what their ancestors did in the past to create this world. Total ignorance about what richer people who look like them are doing now to continue global chaos. It is always about them. Such selfishness!
@Herneith
I think vodka is more his style. LOL!
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@Sam Lennox
“More white slaves were taken into Africa than African slaves were taken into America. “
Prove it…or forever hold your peace!
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@Sam Lenox
“More white slaves were taken into Africa than African slaves were taken into America.”
That isn’t true. Going by low estimates, 1.25 million Europeans were taken as slaves by North African pirates during the Barbary Slave Trade. Also going by low estimates, 12 million Africans were taken as slaves during the Transatlantic Slave Trade. So Black slaves brought to the Americas outnumbered White slaves brought to North Africa tenfold. Of course, both were terrible slave trades, and should be acknowledged.
@Afrofem
“Now their clueless descendants wail about a few refugees.”
Well, it certainly isn’t a few. I believe the number is in the millions. But I think I get what you’re saying.
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“No acknowledgement of what their ancestors did in the past to create this world. Total ignorance about what richer people who look like them are doing now to continue global chaos. It is always about them. Such selfishness!”
.
Remember the former, now retired pastor of Obomber? The one that was thrown under a bus? Rev J. Wright…
He had some very distinct wording about Amerika’s future because of Amerika’s sordid past – and present.
Planting and harvesting, sowing and reaping… Karma!
The Universe always sees to it that the balances are maintained. No matter how long it takes, it will bring homeostasis. It always does.
It’s a law!
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I think vodka is more his style. LOL!
Nope, he’s probably a ‘gut rot’ liquor type of guy. I think there should be a white supremacy history month so all these fools can congregate and go crazy during one month and one month only. The rest of the time they would have to STFU(hard to do when you are bombed out of your skull). Oh, I forgot, what with the booze, meth and heroin ‘epidemics’ permeating their communities right now, most of them would have to sober.
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@Benjamin
Thank you for weighing in this conversation. BBC had a credible write up about Barbary Coast slavery that corroborated your numbers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/white_slaves_01.shtml
Taking in refugees is never easy, especially if they are (or even look like) traditional foes. The refugees in their millions still only represent a fraction of the 500 million plus population of the EU. If the EU countries and the Five Eyes (Britain, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) shared the burden of caring for the refugees, it wouldn’t be a crushing responsibility for any one country.
Of course, left unsaid is the burden of neighboring countries, like Lebanon and Jordan who have huge refugee populations that they are ill-equipped to handle. Yet, they are not behaving in the same shameful fashion as the Balkan countries or France at the port of Calais.
Another consideration is the underlying responsibility of some EU nations, in conjunction with the US, in creating the wars, land grabs (in Africa) and economic depriviation that pushed the refugees into perilous Mediterranean crossings.
You added historical context to the refugee crisis and context is always important.
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@Fan
Balance is a universal law…I just wish I could see it in my lifetime.
@ Herneith
Don’t forget about the painkillers (opiods) and the chewing tobacco…thunk!
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@Afrofem
Thank you, your welcome. I have a rather long response to what you’ve written with regards to the refugee crisis. But I’m not sure if this is the place to post it, or if it belongs in the open thread.
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@Benjamin
I would love to read it.
@Abagond
Here or open thread?
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@Sam Lennox: You are just like a toilet full of sh*t.
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@ Lennox
“Is there any non-white country being invaded and taken over, replaced with whites, …”
.
Apparently no sane (non-white) population wants to be assimilated and controlled by the Borg, or have the Jem’Hadar’s addiction to *white*!
Said in my best Red Foxx/Fred Sanford’s voice: YA BIG DUMMY!!!
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@Afrofem
It is getting late where I live, so I might write my response tomorrow. But I think I will just post it in the open thread.
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@Benjamin
Thanks, I will look for it there.
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@Afrofem
Just letting you know I have posted my response in the Open Thread.
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@Benjamin
I just wrote a response in the Open Thread, but it seems to have gone into moderation.
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Rediculous….. or we could have a horror month of all the black transgressions against not only whites, but against all races including their own….. but that would be racist wouldn’t it……
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What’s ridiculous is your spelling
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@F
List five of those “…black transgressions against not only whites, but against all races…”. That should be interesting.
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I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of black and white transgressions against other races. I know which side of the balance sheet will be way longer. In fact, I think Abagond has a post or two around here along those lines.
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you put in bits and pieces of history and in doing so dont correct the problem first of all this country wasnt built just on the backs of blacks. we had as many if not more Irish slaves. the oriental built the railroads along with the Italian. it was the muslim who captured and brought the slave to the Americas. not to America alone. they were taken to south America and the islands to harvest sugar cane. it wasn’t until cotton was introduced that they brought more here. the number was under half a million and the largest slaver was black himself. To correct history is a noble cause but if you are going to do it do it correctly and check you facts from many sources not just a few.
Grampa
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@Grampa
Everything you listed is a moral deflection that downplays anti-Black racism. Febreze is not the basis of good history. The point of the post is to point out stuff that gets overlooked because it does not further the White Innocence Project, of which you seem to be a part.
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Are you serious!!😳 Do you really believe the people that have been suppressed i.e. Native Americans, Blacks, Hispanics to name a few will read or want to know the horrible things Whites did back in the 1800s to them. It Is not about knowing what race has done what. It’s about validating that these races or people who have been wrongly treated are important to the human race as well!! Not just one race is superior!!
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Forget about the “White Slaves” that were traded by the Muslims well b4 there was an America… but no only talk what American Whites did.
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@ Get a life
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/arab-slavery/
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@Get a life
A little fun fact about the Barbary slave trade….those whites were also traded by the Dutch and Portuguese and whoever was engaged in piracy at the time. Slavery was a common theme for whites, but as they explored they found other groups to enslave.
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White people: the world’s biggest “Dindu-nuffins”. Truly a people skilled at the art of deflection and projection. The Western part of the Eurasian “Northern Cradle” (according to Diop) from Arabia to Portugal has been truly disastrous for those who’re not them.
The video below is about the spread of religion but once the green and the purple appear you can basically assume that the spread of religion is associated with subjugation, colonization, imperialism, slavery and even some genocide.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvFl6UBZLv4)
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Rewatching the video myself the spread the Arabian religion, largely through conquest, was truly stunning. It was the last of today’s major religions but quickly captured large swathes of Northern Africa and Europe after it’s genesis in Western Arabia. At about the 1.08 mark you see Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal) quickly turning green (Islam) then at 1:30 mark they gradually turn back to Christianity’s purple (reconquista). Right after the last bit of green disappears they set off across the Atlantic and commenced a period of rapid Christian expansion through colonization of the Americas, Central/Southern Africa and Australia. Perhaps they were battle-hardened but the Iberians did not hesitate to claim land, enslave and chop off hands in the Caribbean.
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The Redleg of Barbados is an example of whites enslaved by whites.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDWAt_QfMvA)
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@ Origin
I think the map is rather misleading. It mixes up (majority) religion and political control. They colour all territories green that were conquered during the Islamic expansion, but Egypt stayed majority Christian during the Middle Ages.
By that standard they should have made all European colonies (inclunding the Middle East) Christian.
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@Kartoffel
The map is entirely about religion.
I’m the one linking the initial spread to political control because, frankly, that’s the primary way Christianity and Islam’s spread really accelerated. If you read the history, even Arabia itself was converted by Mohammed’s sword. Arabs weren’t muslim to begin with; the Kaba in Mecca was originally a “pagan” holy site just as Jerusalem was initally a Jewish then Christian holy site before Mohammed was born. You can read about the conquest of Jerusalem and the conquest of Constantinople through “jihad” wars.
The “Age of Discovery” for Europeans began afterwards and that’s when Christianity really spread around the world. Again, the animation is about religion but you can link all of the intial appearance of purple in the “New World” to Columbus and to atrocities that were being carried out there. Later conquistadores visited the same things on the Inca and others in South America and we know what happened in North America.
Western European political control of the wider Middle East (during which Islam remained the majority religion) was primarily re-established after WWI when the Muslim Ottoman empire, one of the active participants in the war (allied with Germany), lost. Both the German Empire and Ottoman Empire eventually ceased to exist and the territories they formerly controlled were taken by other political entities. Something similar happened after Germany and Japan lost in WWII. This was the clash of imperial ambition settled by war not one set of people minding their own business but being blindsided by those who came for their lands.
So to conclude, the map is about religion and doesn’t document the details of lands shifting hands politically (but you can easily historically verify the nexus with imperialism when Christianity and Islam spread out). Note that this applies to the expansion of Islam as well. India was under Islamic rule for a very long stretch of 800 years but remains orange at all times on the map since it remained majority Hindu. It continued to be orange during the time that Christian Great Britain was in control.
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yeah, conventional wisdom holds more to the european and iberian slavers vis a vis the triangle trade, i can’t find anything about — and promulgating islam thereby this system does not seem indicated unlike the catholics in certain circumstances
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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm
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You can’t be serious, surely you are stroking all readers. By all means, you are welcome to cast your opinion on how history unfolded, because you are blessed to be an American, where we are granted the right of free speech. But, at the end of the day, its only your opinion and some will agree and others won’t, with the reasons and methods of society hundreds of years ago. Most Americans aren’t proud of every chapter in our history
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@Louie
Oh he’s serious.. and stop calling him Shirley. (Sorry, movie reference… couldn’t stop my fingers from typing it.)
“opinion on how history unfolded”. Honestly, no opinions need be presented. Pure, uninterpreted statements that detail events as they occurred allow commenters like you and I to hash out our different perspectives on the context of those events and formulate our own opinions as you’ve stated. Perhaps Abagond’s point was that a White History Month could simply provide an opportunity to disseminate that information the way other history months highlight other things. Example: During “Breast Cancer Awareness Month”, one can learn that 1 in 8 women develop invasive breast cancer and also that 99% of women survive if it is detected before it spreads elsewhere. It up to you to decide if there’s any reason to get or suggest a mammogram. That part is opinion. See? So, perhaps during “White History Month” one can learn that , in 1917, approximately 3,000 white men marched into downtown East St. Louis and began attacking African Americans in a riot that officially ended with at least 39 Black people dead. It’s up to us to decide if that was appropriate or not. We can even choose to give more or less credibility to the estimates that as many as 200 were killed. We may disagree on that, but that’s our opinion. The event itself is factual and something many people are largely unaware of. Unless they read this blog of course, because Abagond did a post on it already 😉
My point is simply that knowing about events is not a bad thing. It has been said that knowledge is power. I suppose it has also been said that ignorance is bliss. I choose knowledge… but that’s just my opinion of course.
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I agree! This book will put it in their face and allow them to see the SINS AND SHAMEFUL acts their four father’s created. Still there is much racism and HATE in our society today and of some people had their way they would take things back to that toxic life style of pain. How degrading the past is for people of color
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your fucking sick, you know not every white person is a racist and I’m not gonna make a stupid list just to show you everyone that was white and did extrodarny things. Why cant we celebrate how Albert einstein ended a war which took countless lives as it was by creating the bomb which killed 100k lives to save 4 million. ehat about how George Washington led his soldiers into battle and freed our great nation with nothing but his courage and dignity. what about Abraham Lincoln who fought his own country and wouldn’t back down because he knew he was doing the right thing. I can keep going on like that list you did but I wont waste my time with a racist who was raised to think that the color of your skins defines your values “white privledge” if you want to know why your really racist look at Martin Luther king who once said ‘I have a dream that my four little children will not be judged by the content of their skin but by the content of their character’ but I guess that doesnt apply to me right cause I’m a racist white guy trying to live in a rigged system that hates white people now.
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@Jack:
Boohoo! Scnooka snau!
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Seems like Jack completely missed the point of this post, eg,
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@ Jefe
He also missed that Lincoln’s speeches were included in the recommended reading section of the post.
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@ Jack
The content of White people’s character is more than just the good things they have done. There is a dark side too. Not looking at that dark side gives a false idea of history.
What you seem to want is not history but propaganda, Caucasian mythology. That is already being taught at schools in the US from coast to coast. It does not require a special month.
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“Why cant we celebrate how Albert einstein ended a war which took countless lives as it was by creating the bomb which killed 100k lives to save 4 million.”
Probably because we dropped 157,000 tons of conventional bombs and leveled many, many other cities… including Tokyo which was deadlier than Nagasaki… and Japan never surrendered. Pretty sure they didn’t care if we had to drop 100 bombs or 1 to level a city. However, soon after Russia’s ground invasion, they decided to meet the terms of the Allies and surrender.
“ehat about how George Washington led his soldiers into battle and freed our great nation with nothing but his courage and dignity.”
He had no formal training? Hadn’t cut his teeth in the French and Indian war? His birthday is already a holiday and he got his face on money. Can you say the same for Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, John Parker or Crispus Attucks?
” I’m a racist white guy trying to live in a rigged system that
hatesbenefits white people now.”^^^ fixed that for ya.
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@ Jack
One of the earliest articles on Abagond’s blog (12 years ago!) was about Albert Einstein:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/01/31/einstein/
And then there is this more recent post, the content of which you might find surprising, given your preconceived notions about this blog:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/albert-einstein-and-black-americans/
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