“Racism: An American Ideology” (1977) is an essay by John Mohawk (Sotsisowah), an Iroquois scholar of the late 1900s and leader of the Seneca. In it he says that imperialism, genocide and colonialism grow out of racism which in turn grows out of the nature of Western civilization.
Western civilization is based on cities which are not self-supporting. That means they have to take in land, labour, food, water, power, etc from elsewhere. It makes cities the enemy of the Natural World and of Natural World peoples. To make this seem right and good, racist thinking arises:
The introduction of an ideology based on biology is a peculiarly modern phenomenon, traceable to the period following the European penetration of the Americas. There had been many instances of cultural antagonism, and caste systems were widely practiced in the ancient world. But nothing was developed that approached the systematic genocide and destruction of whole peoples that followed the development of racism.
In Brazil natives are still being pushed off their land in the name of Western progress and civilization. When native lands are found to have something of value to Westerners, native rights are stepped on.
The natives themselves are either pushed aside or killed. But it does not end there: they also lose their culture by a process Westerners call education. Westerners see education as improving natives for their own good when in fact they are being trained for the good of Western interests.
When Bartolome de Las Casas was a boy in Spain he saw Columbus return in triumph from the New World. But when he went to live there himself he was shocked at what he saw and wrote about it. That led to the Valladolid debates:
- Las Casas, by then a priest among the Indians, argued that natives possessed reason and souls, that they were fully human and had produced civilizations of their own. Using force against them was wrong, even to bring them to Christ.
- Sepulveda, a scholar, leading expert on Aristotle and the father of modern racism, said they were not fully human. Among other things they were dirty, dark, ugly, had strange customs and could not speak Latin (then a sign of education and therefore intelligence in the West). Their only purpose in the universe, therefore, was to serve the civilized. It was the plan of Nature. Force was acceptable, even necessary. The Spanish had a duty to bring them the blessings of Western civilization. In return the Spanish had a right to their land, labour and worldly possessions.
The debate was over means, not ends. Both agreed that Spain should rule native peoples, they just disagreed about how best to do it. Even if Las Casas had won the policy debate, natives would have still lost their land and their culture. They would be “improved” by Christianity and become poor labourers instead of slaves.
See also:
de las Casas also advocated that Africans be brought as slaves despite his humanitarian intercession on behalf of indigenous people. Although he was not the first to do so, he supported black enslavement.
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@ Abagond
Thanks for another informative blog. I will have to save this to my archives!
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by the way…love that pic!
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Another excellent post, Abagond.
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I found that one of my local libraries carries that book …thanks for the post 🙂
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Once again, a very good post. This also shows that racism is not something biological nor it is based on anything biological, but it is an ideology in service of a purpose. That purpose being control and expolitation of everything possible for economic gains.
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We were discussing what that “something else” Western civilisation has that seperates it from the other conquering destroying civilisations out there.
I think racism is this “something else”. When Western civilisation invented racism, it “sold its soul to the devil” ( not nescasarily literaly in the biblical sence) .And every person that buys into that all the way into today, whether they come from somewhere else , or even if they arnt white, if they buy into racism, they are “seling a part of their soul to the devil”
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@Louis DeCaro Jr.
Don’t mean to change the topic, but, why does every nonblack culture want to put black people in chains? Make them slaves? What is it about black people, that makes them them the default slave of everyone?
I was stunned to learn that the natives had black enslaved people traveling with them, and carrying their stuff, in ‘Trail of Tears’. There I had been ‘crying’ for the natives because of this historical atrocity, only to learn that blacks were their chattel, along with the pigs and chickens. wow
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Christianity requires large families. Large families will always lead to expansion, and the development of ideologies that justify it.
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Given that Sepulveda was a Spanish intellectual, wouldn’t it be more correct to say that racism is a “European ideology” in this context?
It seems to me that many on this website are eager to rake “white Americans” over the coals for even subtle “racism”, but are uncomfortable talking about very blatant, overt racism on the part of their European compatriots. This at a time when the families of some British soccer players have decided not to travel to Ukraine for the European Football Championship out of fear of anti-black violence.
The fact is that the racial situation in the US has improved dramatically just within the past 20 years. There are still problems, yes, but those are being worked out. It seems ridiculous to frame “racism” as an American problem in light of the pronounced racial animosities on the European continent past and present.
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@ FG
So does that mean the Iroquois are getting their land back? Or at least be properly compensated?
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@ FG
Both Mohawk and I live (or lived) in America. The Valladolid debate is important because of what it says about Western and therefore White American racism. Unfortunately White American thought has not broken free of the bounds of that debate over 400 years ago.
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“So does that mean the Iroquois are getting their land back? Or at least be properly compensated?”
Well, where are the descendants of the Iroquois today? The fact is most are socially mainstream Americans with a bit of Native American ancestry who have no interest in claiming old Iroquois lands. I’m actually partially descended from a tribe linguistically connected to the Iroquois. There are few pure blood Indians left in the eastern US.
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They can’t, only if they are willing to give up Christianity
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@ FG
“Given that Sepulveda was a Spanish intellectual, wouldn’t it be more correct to say that racism is a “European ideology” in this context? “
~Yes , that would be correct. Water is wet, that is a correct statement as well.
“It seems to me that many on this website are eager to rake “white Americans” over the coals for even subtle “racism”, but are uncomfortable talking about very blatant, overt racism on the part of their European compatriots. This at a time when the families of some British soccer players have decided not to travel to Ukraine for the European Football Championship out of fear of anti-black violence. “
~You read internationally too? Awesome. So you can read this blog to hear about Americans and American racism, then check some other blogs to focus on Euro racism, and just keep reading around. Soon, you will know everything about everyone! =D
~And yes, CNN just did a segment on Euro-racism. We hear about it too.
“The fact is that the racial situation in the US has improved dramatically just within the past 20 years. There are still problems, yes, but those are being worked out”.
~Oh , Really!? Well, let just keep talking about how it’s working out. This is much better than talking about the weather – interesting even.
“It seems ridiculous to frame “racism” as an American problem in light of the pronounced racial animosities on the European continent past and present.”
~Yup, it is.
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@FG:
“I’m actually partially descended from a tribe linguistically connected to the Iroquois.”
Really? And what nation you belong to? Or are you one of those white americans who just happened to find out that they are actually the sons of Dances with Wolves all of a sudden?
“Well, where are the descendants of the Iroquois today? The fact is most are socially mainstream Americans with a bit of Native American ancestry who have no interest in claiming old Iroquois lands.”
I would really like to know who are these members of the Six Nations who say that ” to hell with our land and heritage, lets just be good ole white yankees just like everybody else!”
“There are few pure blood Indians left in the eastern US.”
Is that a surprise for you, news or something you really think WE do not know? I mean, we all know that white americans killed most of them just couple hundred of years ago. But what is really striking that despite of that, THERE STILL ARE SOME PURE BLOOD INDIANS IN THE EAST!!! Do not take my word, go to mohawks in the north and ask.
Or tell them that most of them do not give a sheit about their land or culture or anything and that most of them just want to be white americans just like any white americans. Tell them that YOU know that THEY are no longer interested in being injuns. Right?
I think you might have a small surprise waiting for you up there.
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Abagond:
As you already know, I like to ask the obvious question. Why are native-americans from central and south america still enslaving themselves to Spain? The spanish are the source of their pain, yet, they continue to identify with their slavemasters, and the same goes for spanish blacks. I’m not the smartest brotha in the room, but i do have common sense. Imagine jewish folk taking on the name and culture of nazi germans? This is why i refuse to fall into the hispanic/latino trap that a lot of black folk in this country are fooled by. There is no “equality of the races” in spanish culture, never has been. Why does this matter to african-americans? When black people interact with whites who participated in the slave trade without knowing the real story, we make it easy for them to punk us. Our learning curve needs to catch up. White americans made the mistake of thinking spaniards would become americanized like them, they were mistaken. Replacing one group of slave barons for another is not an upgrade for blacks in this country. Spain and Portugal are #1 and #2 on Tyrone’s s@#$ list, and have been from the start. Native-Americans, Mexicans, Chicanos, whatever name they prefer to use, need to get the donkey off their back, if they want to be respected by others…Bottomline!
Tyrone
Black Eagles
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I stopped listening to my Ella Fitzgerald CD for this?
I knew the trolls would come charging in…
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@FG
It seems to me that many on this website are eager to rake “white Americans” over the coals for even subtle “racism”, but are uncomfortable talking about very blatant, overt racism on the part of their European compatriots.
Strange. I haven’t noticed that the commenter’s who are familiar with European racism have been reluctant to talk about this. In fact, in part, this was addressed on the Grada Kilomba thread and if I recall, I posed some questions to you which, as far as I know, have yet to be answered. I’m sorry if the responses on there don’t fit with your own experiences, which you allude to regularly but never qualify completely. If I didn’t know better I would say that you are trying to be deliberately antagonistic – but why and to whom, that is what is perplexing?
This at a time when the families of some British soccer players have decided not to travel to Ukraine for the European Football Championship out of fear of anti-black violence.
Yes. Racism in football has long reared its head. I had a discussion on the Open Thread with a commenter (eco I think it was) about this. It was felt that racism was not as bad as physical violence on the pitch – what say you about this FG?
The fact is that the racial situation in the US has improved dramatically just within the past 20 years. There are still problems, yes, but those are being worked out.
Wow. You give racists a lot of credit dont you. Are you doing anything yourself to further the cause to ‘work things out’ and if so, what?
It seems ridiculous to frame “racism” as an American problem in light of the pronounced racial animosities on the European continent past and present.
So, you want to discuss racism in Europe? Is that it? I’m sure that if you opened this up for discussion on the Open Thread many would participate.
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@Oyay
Yep, the Cherokee had African slaves (as did the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Muskogee (creeks) and Seminoles.) In fact this practice was part of what led to them being titled – by whites – “The Five Civilized Tribes.”
In the part of the Cherokee, they realized early on that the Europeans were going to do to them what they had done to the Pequot and other Eastern peoples; destroy them and take their stuff. So the Cherokee, as a culture, decided that appeasement would preserve them. They adopted christianity, western dress, the “protestant work ethic,” studied law, re-organized into an American-style representative government, adopted chattel slavery, built western-style homes, and devised a written syllabary based on the Latin alphabet. It was enough that the local whites often considered the Cherokee “white.” At least, right up until the Cherokee had something of value on hteir land that whites wanted, then they were back to being savages overnight.
For what it’s worth – and it’s probably not worth much – these five societies practiced slavery well before Africans were brought to the Western Hemisphere. Even after that, they approached slavery differently from whites; For these societies, slavery was an individual, temporary thing, not a generational permanent thing. In their own society, a slave was often a hostage awaiting ransom. Failing that, the person was often adopted.
Even with the introduction of chattel slavery, some of this remained; African slaves in Cherokee households, for instance, were often (not always, of course) considered members of the family.
After the civil war – in which most of the nations within Oklahoma pledged for the Confederacy (Richmond promised to recognize “Indian Territory” as an independent nation; don’t ask me why the Indians bought that BS, I guess hope springs eternal) – the US government required the release of all Native-held slaves from bondage. Ever since there’s been a persistent second-class standing for these people and their descendants who are, by culture and memory Cherokee (or whoever) but by blood – and by the Dawes registers – are not Native American. In fact in the early 1980’s, descendants of Cherokee freedmen who could not point to a direct ancestor of “Cherokee blood” on the Dawes Rolls were disenfranchised from being allowed to vote in Cherokee elections. Their Cherokee citizenship is still being litigated.
it’s important when looking at Native American history and influence on the rest of the country to remember that these were – and are – actual people, doing all the good and bad things that people do. There was never some precolumbian idyllic paradise; the idea of “noble savages living in harmony with the land and each other” is every bit as dehumanizing and ahistorical as the other end of white mythmaking, the savage brutes who slaughter women and children and scalp them.
Hell, it’s possible that the cultural line between the slave-taking southeastern cultures and the more egalitarian northern cultures set the stage for America’s own north-south divide.
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@Demerera:
Blacks in the US have it good, compared to our sistas and brothas in other parts of the world, we can’t front about that even if we wanted to. The truth of the matter is, white-americans are the lesser evil when it comes to white people. Yes, we deal with a lot of ish in this country, but, white folks don’t have enuf energy within them to constantly fight with african-americans. Yes, Tyrone talks a lot of smack about white folk. However, the majority of my angst is with spanish, portugese, and arab whites…The Trio. American, British, and French whites don’t get under my skin in the same way. Some folk may be surprised, but, they shouldn’t be. My thoughts are well-known by all on this blog. We need to focus our outrage at “The Source” of our pain…those who created the problem in the beginning. Once we understand (The Trio), we’ll never be enslaved again on this planet…Bottomline!
Tyrone
MindScape
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@Chulanowa
What are your thoughts on african-americans who have native-american blood in them petitioning governing tribes for full membership in various tribes across the US? As we already know, mixing between blacks and indians was common. A large percentage of AAs have indian ancestry in the family tree. This debate popped up some time ago, mostly concerning casinos that have been built all over the country. Blacks felt slighted by the refusal of x tribe to include them in the convo. On the other hand, i can understand why NAs had to narrow the definition of who’s in the fam and who isn’t. It’s an interesting debate that will continue for some time.
Tyrone
MindScape
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@Tyrone
American, British, and French whites don’t get under my skin in the same way.
I dont know whether FG would concur with your thoughts about the British but, as he/she seems to come on infrequently and merely make a statement, often without explaining of qualifying it, its hard to tell.
Personally, I dont have problems with people based on their race or nationality, merely with individuals who are loathsome and full of doo doo 🙂
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@FG
A lot of east-coast tribes mixed themselves out of existence. Most people assume that whites were the only nail in the heart…Half-Truth! People often wonder why there aren’t many pure-blooded indians in the US…white slavery, disease, and intermarriage with blacks. Indians from central and south america who refuse to acknowledge their americanness are strange to me. We’re told that indians are few and far between, but, that’s not the case. None of us can run from who we are as human beings, regardless of circumstance.
Tyrone
MindScape
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Demerera:
I used to be that brotha who only hated on white-americans, and ignored the others. Seeing all of the bs here in Miami with spaniards forced me to change my thinking on the issue. This change was years in the making, i was in denial about a lot of ish that i witnessed in relation to the treatment of our spanish sistas and brothas by white cubans, dominicans, etc. Demerera, if all of us are not good, none of us are good. It makes no sense for blacks in the US to act like all is well when it’s not for other blacks. We have issues in this country, but, we do more harm to ourselves than anybody…Real Talk! Once we get our ish together, we won’t have to worry about white racism and envy on this planet…Period! Also, i’d like to apologize to you for “ranting” on you via another post. I think you and a white guy were talking about everybody being the same, color not being important, etc. I was too strong in my ambivalence. Whenever i hear black people say that their blackness is not a big deal, my ears perk up. Blackness is a blessing that was given to us by the almighty…Appreciate It! Doesn’t make us better than anybody else, but, i would have a hard time selling my melanin to anybody or anything. Tyrone is strong-willed and opinionated, but, that’s not the real me. I’m just a laidback brotha who is passionate about african people, and always will be. I just wanted to get that off my chest, Demerera. Stay True Sista!!!
Tyrone
MindScape
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@Bulanik,
“I am also curious how come you don’t express the reasons for your discontent and unease towards Europe and the British, in particular. You have even said elsewhere that you wish Europeans and British people would not comment about the US on this blog-site.”
I don’t have any ill-will toward Europeans (or British) in aggregate. I wil be the first to note that Europe has a glorious intellectual and cultural heritage that extends into the present. However, I have noticed many instances on this site and on others of Europeans (regardless of racial background) bashing and belittling the US and American identity for no constructive purpose. I think jealousy has alot to do with it. This petty and sometimes hateful obsession is all the more disturbing if you consider that it distracts said individuals from addressing the problems afflicting their own societies.
You are aware that much of Europe is experiencing economic melt-down as we speak, aren’t you?
“I’m also a little curious to know what your thoughts about the African continent and Africans in relation to the US …In fact, I don’t think I have ever seen you comment on threads that touch on those subjects.”
Well, we all know that the African continent as a whole suffers from many serious challenges (e.g. hunger, civil strife). Nevertheless, I’ve become acquainted with many Africans over the years (primarily from Nigeria and Ghana) and generally find them to be quite ambitious and dynamic people. Thus, although Africa is quite troubled at the moment, I suspect its inhabitants will make considerable progress in the long-run.
“Is there a particular reason you narrow your interests to white people and nearly-white people who wish to be considered as “white” in the US?”
I’m multiracial myself (white/black/Native American) so I naturally discuss mixed people a great deal. Furthermore, half my family is white and I’ve lived in predominantly white areas my whole life so I feel that I’m pretty knowledgeable about white people.
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@FG:
Well, like I have said before I love american music, food, movies, litterature, arts etc. I have met many many many wonderful americans in my lif time. But if you think that europeans are too critical towards the policies and social ills of USA, you should check how we talk about our own countries and EU etc. I have met very few fellow europeans who have been un critical of any government, social ills etc. It is in our system. It is given that you are critical. If you are not, there is something wrong with you.
In Europe there is very little of the forced nationalism or self assurences that there are in USA. In USA it is almost comical how much almost everyone is claiming or exptected to claim to be a patriot. In Europe it is almost given thing. For sure, there are nationalistic segments in societies over here too, but in european eyes the american flag waving and hoopla are childish and very dangerous. After all, nazis were big time patriots and nationalists.
Personally I am nort critical for USA because any jelousy, there is no reason for that, but because I see the unbelievable potential in that country and how terribly it is been wasted year after year for the benefit of a fantastically rich few. I see how totally corrupt the political system is, all sorts of troubles, but I am not saying these things because of I hate USA. I love the people and the country. I just can not stand to see the terrible waste of people and opportunities, potential, everything. Most horrifying is the satanicly cynical way how the elite uses young brave americans as cannon fodder in their wars in which they drive their interests. Irak is the prime example. Why attack Irak which had nothing to do with 911? Even we dumb europeans knew that Osama and Al Qaida was hidin in Afganistan at that time.
As for the euro crisis, it started because the financial crisis of USA in 2008, which was, as we now know, a huge pyramid scheme where the tax payers footed the bill. And who made it possible for Greece to get an entry into the euro system? Right, Lehman Brothers. They loaned 2 billion dollars for the Greece so that they could show for other countries that their budget barely was within the requirements of euro. So it was a scheme made possible by an american investment bank.
Now, who has made most of those loans for over spending governments in Europe? Right. Big US investment bks and funds, along side with the brittish, german and french banks, despite the fact that everyone knew that those governments and countries were already practically broke. Now why on earth anyone would do that? Two reasons.
1) It is in accordance with the openly stated american intrests to break the so called european system of government, social security etc. American bankers and think tanks have said this openly since 1980’s, in 1990’s and again in this millenium. ow its being done. American economists have called the european system as “un fair” and “wrong” because it has been more of the keynesian than freedmanian.
It was Nixon government that gave the so called Chicago school economists and bankers freedom to show how their ideas work in practise and they chose Chile. It was done first there, It was done in Mexico, Brazil, Argentine, in south east Asia and Asia, then in USA 2008 and now in Europe.
The basic idea is this: since the interests of big business and the interests of the people are opposite, politicians do not obey big business unless there is crisis. So the crisis must be made so that the governments can be forced to do “the necessary chanages and corrections” in their societies and give the big business a free rein.
This ideology is rulin right now and their aim is plutocracy. This was openly said in a letter that Merryl Lynch sent to its major clients. In that letter this big US investment bank apologised that there was still a democracy in the west but they predicted that in the next 10 to 15 years there will be plutocracy and the voters can no longer disturb big busines via elections etc. This letter was made public in 2008, the same year when the editor in chief of the Wall street Journal said in an interview that “I don’t believe or support democracy, it is bad for the busines”. This ideology can be called as fascist also.
2) Those who loaned money for the most corrupted and incompetent european countries knew that they will get their money back, guaranteed. This was promised in various Bildenberger meetings in which most of the economic ministers of european governments are called to. Also in WTO agreements there are hidden investment guarantees in the appedix part of those agreements, some of which are 25 000 pages long.
Sorry about the off topic answer abagond but I felt somekind of explanation is required.
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@ Tyrone…I had no idea you were from Miami! Small world, isn’t it?
But I disagree with your claim that a large number of AAs have Native American ancestry. I believe this was debunked some time ago (I would provide links/sources if I could remember).
Native Americans of almost ANY tribe are inclusive if a person can show legitimate proof. It’s not enough for somebody to claim that they are 1/4 Cherokee (which is the tribe most commonly mentioned by people who claim Native heritage)…one must be able to prove it.
I’ve heard both white and black Americans claim to be part Cherokee more times than I can count, but I wonder how true it actually is in most cases. And I wonder why Cherokee is often the only tribe mentioned? Why not Lakota Sioux, or Caddo, or some other tribe? This is why some people who claim Native ancestry get the side-eye because it doesn’t always ring true.
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@Tyrone
Also, i’d like to apologize to you for “ranting” on you via another post. I think you and a white guy were talking about everybody being the same, color not being important, etc. I was too strong in my ambivalence.
I don’t recall your rant Tyrone, nor the comment to which you were referring to. I guess in my own way, at the back of my mind I am always hoping for the impossible – a Utopia where people are valued for who they are not what they are. A significant portion of this comes from being a mother and not wanting my children to have to constantly second guess or have that grey area where they suspect that they are being judged by the hue of their skin.
Tyrone – may I ask, are you a preacher? I imagine you would be most excellent at delivering sermons. I respect your wishes if you would prefer not to answer the question but, even if not, I imagine you are a great orator in the right circumstances.
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@FG
However, I have noticed many instances on this site and on others of Europeans (regardless of racial background) bashing and belittling the US and American identity for no constructive purpose.
Are you saying that Europeans come on this site with the sole purpose of ‘running down’ Americans and U.S society? Are you sure that people are not just responding to the blog topic and the comments from commenters on said blog?
I think jealousy has alot to do with it. This petty and sometimes hateful obsession is all the more disturbing if you consider that it distracts said individuals from addressing the problems afflicting their own societies.
LMAO. Are you serious? This comment makes absolutely no sense at all. The blog writer is American and his blogs address issues primarily from the U.S, so, why the heck would we be discussing much else other than issues in the U.S? FG – half of my family live in the U.S and they are all achieving great levels of success. I dont feel that I have anything to be jealous of but, the difference perhaps between me and someone like you is, that if I wanted to go out there and live, I would strive and make it happen. I have no wish to live in the U.S but I would perhaps like to go for a holiday – any suggestions on where I should go?
You are aware that much of Europe is experiencing economic melt-down as we speak, aren’t you?
! I am bemused by this comment. You do realise that it is more than a little spiteful, and totally unecessary….the whole country is working hard to make Britain ‘Great’ once again – wouldnt you agree Bulanik? Patritriotism is high at the moment, particularly in light of the Queens Diamond Jubilee and obviously, the U.K is the place to be at the moment with the event of the Olympics in the next couple of months. OMG – little old England certainly has a lot going on doesnt it ……
Bulanik said:- “I’m also a little curious to know what your thoughts about the African continent and Africans in relation to the US …In fact, I don’t think I have ever seen you comment on threads that touch on those subjects.”
FG said:- …..Nevertheless, I’ve become acquainted with many Africans over the years (primarily from Nigeria and Ghana) and generally find them to be quite ambitious and dynamic people. Thus, although Africa is quite troubled at the moment, I suspect its inhabitants will make considerable progress in the long-run. I suspect its inhabitants will make considerable progress in the long-run……
&
I’m multiracial myself (white/black/Native American) so I naturally discuss mixed people a great deal. Furthermore, half my family is white and I’ve lived in predominantly white areas my whole life so I feel that I’m pretty knowledgeable about white people.
The way that you spoke about the African people you have met, as though to distance them from yourself in a way. I sense no affinity, nothing. Maybe instead of making loaded digs and sarcastic comments you should concentrate on coming to terms with who you are and why you feel the need to lash out unecessarily to people from Europe who interact on this blog. Some people appreciate diversity in their lives – clearly you are not one of those individuals.
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“The way that you spoke about the African people you have met, as though to distance them from yourself in a way. I sense no affinity, nothing. Maybe instead of making loaded digs and sarcastic comments you should concentrate on coming to terms with who you are and why you feel the need to lash out unecessarily to people from Europe who interact on this blog.”
I have lived in the US my whole life so I am American, not African. I do have ethnic connections to the “African American” ethnic group (formerly known as “colored”), but not to any ethnic groups on the continent of Africa.
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@FG
I have lived in the US my whole life so I am American, not African. I do have ethnic connections to the “African American” ethnic group (formerly known as “colored”), but not to any ethnic groups on the continent of Africa.
I think you know what I meant FG – shame on you for pretending otherwise but, I get the sense that there is a real dishonesty in terms of how you perceive yourself on a day to day basis, never mind how you view PoC.
BTW, if you are multiracial I would say that you have more than an ‘ethnic connection’ to the African American ethnic groups……
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“BTW, if you are multiracial I would say that you have more than an ‘ethnic connection’ to the African American ethnic groups……”
I consider myself “multiethnic.” The boundaries between ethnicities are blurring these days.
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Demerera, your comments are just more examples of what I noted on a previous occasion. Certain non-Americans (typically of low social status and self-esteem) apparently believe that they have the right to dictate to American mixed people how they should see themselves. Sorry, you don’t belong to my society and have no say in the matter as far as I’m concerned.
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@FG
Demerera, your comments are just more examples of what I noted on a previous occasion. Certain non-Americans (typically of low social status and self-esteem) apparently believe that they have the right to dictate to American mixed people how they should see themselves. Sorry, you don’t belong to my society and have no say in the matter as far as I’m concerned.
Stop hiding behind this smokescreen FG. Lets face it, you are unhappy with being ‘lumped in’ with other PoC. You are an ethnicity snob and a nutty nationalist to boot. Don’t even bother to try this ‘superiority’ mind game crap with me either. Been there before with people deemed bigger and better than you and it ends the same way – with them trying desperately and in vain to pretend that they are not in denial in some aspect of their life and me knowing that they are.
BTW, I did not tell you what you were – you identified yourself as multiracial and I pointed out to you a fact. If you are white/native & black mixed as you say then why is it incorrect to say that you have more than an ethnic connection with AA people?
My response really got in your craw didnt it – if there is no truth in what I said and if you dont think my commentary valid, ask yourself why it made you respond in this peevish way?
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Sam on Sat 16 Jun 2012 at 22:22:36
The only thing that can bring the plutocrats on their knees is religion. The laws of the market say that a capitalist doesn’t have free will. He can only follow the laws of the market. If the capitalist denies his own humanity, he can be lawfully killed. If he resists, he will burn in hell. The alternative to capitalism is a system where everybody has a guaranteed minimum income. Attempts to hollow out the guaranteed minimum income by inflation will hold the capitalist responsible.
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“Bulanik to FG,
You are a multiethnic person with African ancestry – yet loathe that very fact. You have lived only in the US, but in a white quarantine, it seems.”
Linda says,
You just described Dominican Republic, Mexico, and a bunch of different Latino countries. I guess this is what black Americans are afraid of when they say they don’t believe mixed-race Americans should have their own category..this thought process (denial of African ancestry) already exists south of the North American border.
I think mixed race Americans should have their category on the Census (like in England) so that they can be recognized for all their ethnicities and not be forced to choose. And at the end of the day, anyway, those who are visibly mixed will still be seen as ‘black’ or ‘other’ by white American society.
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FG is a modern day version of that ol coloured classic; ‘Imitation of Life’, starring ‘Peola’! Another self-loathing person of African descent. But with that being gotten out of the way, he/she can identify as how they wish to. FG detests ‘black’ folk, but is to frightened to say so. I’ve met other ‘Peolas’ in real life and they characterize their arguments much as FG does. FG, no one gives a fiddler’s fart how you ‘identify’. Can you pass for white FG? If so, just identify as such, as you obviously have no affinity for blacks whatsoever despite any claims to the contrary. No one will fault you if you chose to say you are ‘white’. Those that do should mind their own bisquix. By the way FG, you are not the only Black/First Nations/white admixture here. Most North American blacks are ‘biracial/triracial’ through involuntary admixture as Matari has stated. Get over you’re ‘mixed self’. Mixed, that almost sound like a cake or batter mix.
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FG said:
FG is banned from this blog. He referred to something Bulanik said on the First Experience thread, a thread from which he was banned.
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“Certain non-Americans (typically of low social status and self-esteem)”.
Now that was funny. Low social status? I guess social class is another sore point to this individual. 😀
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He should/have looked at the British as well. He would have put them on par – even above par – with the Americans.
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@Cinnamondiva
Yes, Ty is from crazy Miami. When NAs say that black people can’t prove indian ancestry, i have to laugh at that. All the genetic testing companies around today, are they serious? Being from Florida, a lot of free blacks mixed with the Seminole tribe. They were treated as honorary tribe members, because they contributed to the tribe in many ways…farming, construction, security, etc. My gut feeling, if the requirements were on the level, there would be more blacks in the governing tribes than actual native-americans…Ditto! Diva, thanks for replying back, i’ve never dialogued with you before. I tend to be a one and done poster, speak my peace and bounce. Appreciate the feedback sweetness…Always!
Tyrone
Dark Eros
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@Demerera
I apologize for the error, but i think it was you…Maybe? My passion gets me in trouble sometimes, so, i tend to be more honest than i should be at times. That’s why i was apologizing to you. Am i a preacher, No. I’m a god-fearing brotha, but, organized religion doesn’t excite me. I like to control my own thoughts, too much of a control freak to allow another person to shape my worldview, just saying. Demerera, are you a spanish sista? Your name is unique. Anyway, stay sweet sista…Always!
Tyrone
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@Linda
Population is just as important as other aspects of black life in the US and beyond. We need to get rid of the confusion, first and foremost. Mulattos are half-black, whether mixed with caucasian, asian, or amerindian. If they’re mixed, they should make it plain. As black people, we need to understand that mulattos are not required to view themselves as black, they’re half-black. In their case, blackness is a choice. On the flip side, any mulatto that wants the world to see them as authentically black, should make it plain. If black identity is that important, check black on the census. As to our spanish sistas and brothas, they have a lot of explaining to do. Why are they allowing spaniards to dictate to them whether they can or can’t be african? When did white spaniards become black people, Seriously? The reason i beat up on them so much, is because, we need them to complete the circle. And, it’s too many black people to give up to Spain and Portugal, way too many. We can’t move forward as a race, if a large chunk of our people are in bondage to whites and indians in central and south america…Unacceptable! It’s makes no sense for them to migrate to the US and deal with the same problems, yet, lump themselves in with white spaniards who are just as racist as white americans. All the resources flow to them, but they’re dealing with the same issues as black-americans. In other words, they’re undercutting other black people out of stupidity. Mexicans are the reason why this insanity exist in the first place, seeing themselves as whites…Crazyness! I trust our race, spanish black people will get right, i don’t care what anybody says. It’s not gonna happen overnight, but it will become a reality in the near future. Technology doesn’t allow masses of people to be brainwashed anymore, regardless of location on the planet. Our ancestors never gave up, we can’t give up…Bottomline!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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@Tyrone
Demerera, are you a spanish sista? Your name is unique. Anyway, stay sweet sista…Always!
If I said ‘turbinado’ would that give you a clue as to my moniker? In the UK, I would think that most what know what Demerera was and, ironically, it is sweet literally 😉
Some of my family origins are from a former French W.I Island and my ancestors were said to have migrated from South America and settled there where they have their own territory to this day. Thats about as Spanish as it gets I guess 🙂
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@Demerera
Let me guess, Martinique! One of my homeboys that i went to school with hailed from the island. He spoke english and french. As the saying goes, “Black people are everywhere…literally and figuratively.” Demerera, stay sweet like chocolate mama…Always!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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[…] "Racism: An American Ideology" (1977) is an essay by John Mohawk (Sotsisowah), an Iroquois scholar of the late 1900s and leader of the Seneca. In it he says that imperialism, genocide and coloniali… […]
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