Although the white ethnographic gaze was applied to black and brown people the world over, this post is about how it was applied to blacks in America. It is my take on “White Ethnographers on the Experiences of African American Men: Then and Now” by black sociologist Alford A. Young, Jr. It appears as chapter 11 of “White Logic, White Methods” (2008) edited by Tukufu Zuberi and Eduardo Bonilla-Silva.
In the 1960s the American government and foundations poured a ton of money into science to study poor blacks who lived in big cities. The studies were done by and for whites. The hope was that, by studying blacks, ways could be found to pretty much wipe out poverty.
The three most important ethnographic studies of the period were:
- 1967: Eliot Liebow: “Tally’s Corner: A Study of Negro Streetcorner Men”
- 1969: Ulf Hannerz: “Soulside”
- 1970: Lee Rainwater: “Ghetto Walls: Black Family Life in a Federal Slum”
I remember seeing the first two at the library back in the 1980s.
These in turn were informed by Oscar Lewis’s studies in the 1950s and 1960s of poor Latinos and his idea of a “culture of poverty”: poverty shapes culture which in turn helps to keep people poor – like by making them give up hope.
The blacks who gained the most attention of white ethnographers were unemployed men who hung out at street corners, particularly the loud, dramatic and aggressive ones. Whites studied their values, norms, attitudes and behaviour as compared those of the white middle-class. They became exotic creatures living in a strange subculture.
The advantage of this approach is that values, norms and attitudes were the stock in trade of these ethnographers.
The weaknesses, though, were several:
- Most black men worked and by the late 1960s most blacks did not live in poverty. Even among those who did, these men were not a good sample.
- The white middle-class was idealized, like something out of “Leave It to Beaver”, since it had not been studied properly at the level of fact.
- White is right: white culture was presumed to be right and good so that differences were seen as bad.
The last one let racism in through the back door, which then got backing as neutral, objective science.
Blacks who disagreed were seen as incapable of being fair-minded, unlike white ethnographers.
Yet white ethnography was so profoundly racist that it was not till the 1990s that science discovered that most poor black people were rational human beings, that they were quite capable of hard work and discipline, that they had thoughts and feelings worth taking seriously in understanding their actions. All that might seem like common sense but it was uncommon among whites.
Because black cultural differences were read mainly as the cause and effect of poverty, by the 1980s it led to the idea of the black underclass, of blacks stuck forever in poverty due to cultural pathologies – something that most White Americans believe to this day.
See also:
by the 1980s it led to the idea of the black underclass, of blacks stuck forever in poverty due to cultural pathologies
Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that illegitimacy, criminality and welfare dependence aren’t “cultural pathologies” that contribute to poverty?
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I see illegitimacy, criminality and welfare dependence here in Kingston, Ontario in an almost entirely white underclass. In this demographic ( I live at or below the same income level, but am not welfare dependent or criminal) , I’ve come to conclude that to some (immeasurable) extent, poverty *feeds into* that dynamic by necessity. “New” poverty is being created all the time, by corporate / government policies and actions – hence increasing numbers of people with no resources at hand.
The nation-less corporations want a greater and greater percentage of the human population to be desperately impoverished, and to simply die.
Whatever the cultural spinoffs are in that process, they don’t care.
They’ll get their way, because we have no recourse.
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*facepalm*. I’m almost fairly sure now that racism lowers “intelligence”. The conclusions that some of the ethnographers drew based on the “Street Corner Men” is insane. I wonder what type of questions were asked and if they had some bias to promote a certain idea about those men. Or if the ethnography was fair and balanced. From your post ,abagond, it was probably biased >< .
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I want to talk about something that is sort of related to this. At the moment, this is the most convenient forum for me to put it in, and I feel it’s better to speak out than to remain silent.
The other day, my friends (mostly white) and I were discussing protests and debt and student loans. And one said that the way debt works today, many people don’t know they’re slaves. He also said that, “Like slaves in the US. They didn’t know they were slaves.”
I challenged him, and he told me there was documented research to back it up. He’d studied it in college. Probably in a class with a white professor and with research done by white social scientists.
My friends’ words had truth to them, and there was some relevance to the comparison he was making. However, I ultimately found his words chilling. Because he was denying my humanness in that statement, even though that wasn’t necessarily his intent – he didn’t consider it at all. He seemed surprised and taken aback that I was offended, and somewhat defensive and annoyed.
I said I talked with my black family members and we remembered. Which I must confess isn’t true. We haven’t talked about slavery directly. So in a way I told a lie, and I admit that.
For all those who have learned to unsee, or who have never learned to see beyond themselves, here is why my friend’s statement was horrifying to me:
I grew up with the unspoken understanding that others thought I was stupid or somehow defective. I know what it is to watch my words so that there is no grammatically-based place for others to perpetrate racist micro-agressions. I know what it is to know I’d better not get too fit, because I could be hunted for my strength. And to know that I (like everyone else) can be forced to corrupt my own speech and thoughts as a survival tactic against unspeakable emotional pain and continuing physical torture.
I remember. We all remember. We remember in our genes, in our speech, in our subtle actions you don’t notice. We remember even as some of us work hard to deny or forget. Do not dare dehumanize my ancestors with your presumption that we aren’t conscious. And don’t dare presume that even those of us who are unconscious are not conscious at the sub-conscious level.
That is the scariest thing. There are people today who insist that child molestation isn’t inherently wrong. There are also those who deny the holocaust. There are those who deny that the trans-atlantic slave trade was anything less than one of the major global tragedies in history. And there are those who will deny us our consciousness, our humanity, our inherent value – OUR SENSES. Because senses connect to truth. And they either want to wrestle with truth or don’t even know it’s all around them.
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Reading a book called Yurugu I have come to see the importance of such studies.
What they do is maintain White Self-Image. Whitehood is all about creating a contrast in which Whiteness emerges as the desired property. It is not really about race(in the sense of something being genetic and unchangeable) according to the author of the book, it is more so about culture, european-euro american culture – western culture(which belongs to whites). It is all about creating contrasts, barbarian/civilized, pagan/christian, illiterate/literate, black/white, primitive/modern then attaching values to them based on a pre-conceived template. The aim is to maintain/enhance the image and give purpose to a certain kind of culture(european-euro america).
In short whiteness gets its power through its vision of other people and you can trace it back from those early barbarian/civilized greek/roman days then through christianity with heathen-pagan/christian dichotomy and into the slave trade with white(controlled, divine, good, rational)/black(uncontrolled, irrational, profane) to the modern day in development/developing countries etc. The mandate then becomes, since they are more and we are less, they have the god given prerogative to impose there will on us as they represent a higher way of life. That’s why for example in this blog some white people simply won’t engage in meaningful conversation, they always seek to control and impose since they have been taught for centuries that the very strands of their DNA is the closest to the divine on this Planet.
Don’t expect them to be objective or whatever in there studies, despite what they say. Objectivity doesn’t exist since everything is placed in a context. When a social scientist says he/she is being objective they are lying because it is humanely impossible to transcend context i.e. a white sociologist is unlikely to overcome his/her own white lens amongst other things.
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@ Mamzer HaKodesh
I don’t understand,
What did your friends say?
“Like slaves in the US. They didn’t know they were slaves.”
I don’t understand the quote.
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@Mamzer HaKodesh
He also said that, “Like slaves in the US. They didn’t know they were slaves………” My friends’ words had truth to them, and there was some relevance to the comparison he was making.
I’m sorry, I dont agree here, and I wonder if you take a step back and look at this more objectively, whether you truly do too Mamzer.
You said that He seemed surprised and taken aback that I was offended, and somewhat defensive and annoyed. This suggests to me something that has been intimated a lot on this blog by white commenters.
A person of colour cannot adequately comprehend nor are they emotionally equipped to ‘understand’ themselves more than any ‘white’ person can. On this blog alone, examples of publications by ‘white’ people about ‘black’ people deomonstrate this time after time. Now, you may argue that this is historic thinking but, the fact that this guy uses this example as a comparison to debt trivialises the whole of slavery and reflects that still ‘Massa know best!’
This comment too Because he was denying my humanness in that statement, even though that wasn’t necessarily his intent – he didn’t consider it at all. is an attempt to say ‘ the slave trade really wasnt as bad as it seemed cos, those silly negro’s didnt really understand, they were too thick to know that being worked, whipped, raped etc was bad/wrong/immoral’.
I know what it is to watch my words so that there is no grammatically-based place for others to perpetrate racist micro-agressions. I know what it is to know I’d better not get too fit, because I could be hunted for my strength. And to know that I (like everyone else) can be forced to corrupt my own speech and thoughts as a survival tactic against unspeakable emotional pain and continuing physical torture.
Have you ever shared this with your friend? Could you tell him that this self preservation you have to undertake is due to the legacy of slavery that has been passed down to you? That you are ‘aware’ of the negative, and potentially life affecting treatment you could receive as a person of colour still, even in this day and age?
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Is Mamza saying that his friends think black slaves didn’t know they were slaves?
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@wilson
Is Mamza saying that his friends think black slaves didn’t know they were slaves?
This is my understanding yes. Perhaps Mamza can clarify for us…
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@ Wilson
It would seem that great minds think alike.
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/05/28/the-problem-with-no-name/
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Didn’t know they were slaves?
My goodness, there may be a grain of truth in it, the ones under 2-and-a-half will have been unaware, the older ones knew very well they were slaves, the truth may rather be that they did not know well yet how to be free people, as shown by for instance the increased infant mortality for infants with (ex)slave mothers in Surinam after abolition.
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The only way I can possibly think that slaves did not know they were slaves is as young children that are born into slavery and do not know any other way of life…but I cannot imagine that someone close to them did not inform them very young. Maybe they are referring to the term “slave”. but even still that does not matter because I can’t imagine anyone thinking what was being done to them was acceptable and normal…especially seeing white people free to do as they please and inflicting pain and suffering on them for reasons I still cannot comprehend.
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…..” I can’t imagine anyone thinking what was being done to them was acceptable and normal…especially seeing white people free to do as they please and inflicting pain and suffering on them for reasons I still cannot comprehend….”
Physical slavery, was a ‘worst case scenario’, but, how do you think black Americans get through what is the ‘norm’ now? Black Americans in projects and ghettos, and always on the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum? Apparently, ‘black’/we’ believe that this is our station in life. Plus, ‘we’ have all of those ‘racial realists’ informing us that we belong here/there/
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I have a question for his friends,
How could black people NOT know they were slaves when there white owners AND surrounding white society, constantly kept reminding them of this fact..
For example by,
Whipping, forced labour, the derogatory name calling, the propaganda justifying black inferiority and FINALLY the civil war. What about slave resistance movements etc, I mean were they like thinking “what the hell are you guys on about? slavery, what do you mean? what is this strange term?”
Really, how could they not know?
It’s like saying, it is possible the iraqies on the turn of this century didn’t know there country was being bombed back to the stone age as it was happening…Really?
Well I guess anything is possible.
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First hand accounts of slavery….I am pretty sure they new they were slaves, just sayin:
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/wpa/index.html
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@Wilson
Well said
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Okay, let me clarify.
We were talking about the issue of student debt and large protests, which are fueling a lot of protest in North America (not only this issue, but it’s a significant one). And someone was making a point about how we should pay for education or something to do with money (I don’t remember fully). So my friend, who is very passionate about the situation, said, as far as I understand it, that a lot of people don’t know the game is rigged. They aren’t aware that money isn’t really about contributing to society or caring for oneself – at least not only that. It’s also about a power structure that creates desperate people who are willing to live in a type of servitude, in part because they actually believe that’s not what is happening.
For instance, let’s take Derrick Jensen’s argument (a white writer and eco-activist) who says that our western society is maintained by violence. A conversation between him and a man who came to his lecture went something like this:
Derrick: Why do you pay your rent?
Reader: Because I don’t own.
D: What will happen if you don’t pay your rent?
R: I’ll get evicted.
D: What exactly does that mean?
R: It means the sheriff will come and evict me.
D: So it means that you pay money [and work a a job you may not like or feel contributes to the community either] because if you don’t, people with guns are going to come take you away and do bad things to you.
So this is sort of what my friend was talking about in that the whole trick of society and money and debt isn’t really about fairness. It’s about creating wage-slaves, people who are locked into a trap and have learned to accept it because of the threat of violence if they leave. But equally dangerous is the MENTAL trap people fall into of thinking that it is somehow right, or that they are obligated to live this way or that they ‘owe’ others.
My friend was angry because a lot of people don’t see how destructive our financial and political system is for us and how it’s actually damaging us. That’s when he made the comparison.
I haven’t read the books or research he referred to, but I’d believe it. Not because it’s true, but because the human mind can only process so much trauma before it cracks. That’s why kidnapping victims develop stockholm syndrome. That’s why adult incest survivors often have repressed memories. So in a sense, it isn’t really surprising that some ancestors might not have known of anything different, or had the memories so deeply buried they didn’t even have a hint of knowing they were there.
But they were. And that statement felt so threatening to me. I felt like I were being erased, mouth first, and like I were powerless to stop it.
I don’t expect to talk to him about it. I don’t have facts or research to back up my arguments. Maybe I can help him understand without them. But I just try to accept him as he is. I actually quite like him, and there are times when he says stuff I just wouldn’t accept from other people. But I like him enough to generally overlook them.
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@Oyan
thank you for pointing that out…I agree. sometimes I get focused on a comment someone else makes and I only make comment on that and forget about the other topics. I feel what was done then was horrible and I feel what has gone on since is just as horrible…for anyone to claim that one injustice is worse than another is an injustice itself.
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@ Mamzer,
I agree with SW6. You’re friend comparing the fact that people nowadays aren’t fully aware how much they are being screwed over by the system vs the “invented” notion that black slaves might not have known this due to “trauma” is a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stretch.
You also seem to be afraid of your friend intellectually?
“I don’t expect to talk to him about it. I don’t have facts or research to back up my arguments. Maybe I can help him understand without them.”
Tell him to USE his COMMON SENSE!
Ask him if as SW6 said “Slave rebellion was for better working conditions?”.
You’re friend to me sounds like a white liberal, the MOST dangerous type because they hide their racism behind “universalistic” “humanitarian” sounding “JARGON compared to the conservatives who just come out and say it…
I also think your friend isn’t aware between the difference of “knowing you are being screwed over” and “having a way out”… Abit like a child being abused by the parent but is afraid because if the parents go or he/she is taken away from the parents, their world will collapse… It takes strength and fortitude to not only realize there is a problem but to come up with a solution… Physical slavery was defeated but we didn’t defeat the system that supports it, the system just morphed into something new and introduced slavery 2.0 — slavery of the mind.
my 2 cents.
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@Mamzer
Not because it’s true, but because the human mind can only process so much trauma before it cracks….So in a sense, it isn’t really surprising that some ancestors might not have known of anything different, or had the memories so deeply buried they didn’t even have a hint of knowing they were there.
I dont believe it. Day in, day out being treated no better than a rabid animal. You would have a sense that you were being mistreated. This just buys in to the myth perpetuated by many whites about the fact that Black people were less than human and thereby ‘justifying’ the brutal and cruel treatment of the enslaved people IMO.
Who would have written those books/papers about the slaves? White men who’s ‘knowledge’ of the slaves ‘feeling’ was probably sought from the very people who were oppressing the slaves i.e. other white people.
The only thing I would say is that perhaps this treatment became ‘accepted’ as the norm because unfortunately, those born in to it would have seen no other examples to go by.
I also agree with SW6 btw – an extremely poor analogy.
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As a white boy growing up in America in the 50’s and 60’s, and, in an integrated school with black American colleagues, I can tell you, American society on race matters was a total mess. Wallowing in a hypocricy that was palpatable , yet, in unbeleivable denial.
I remember reading literature like Tarzan, and James Bond and Hucleberry Fynn , and feeling very uncomfortable about depictions of black Americans , or , black Africans , Even in spite of Twains intent of really depicting Jim and the racism around him, I thought it was clumsy and uncomfortable…
So , Im not surpised if we look back at books back then by white scholars about black American ife, and , it looks ridiculas. Maybe one of the few books by a white man that might have value was “Black Like Me “. Only because the guy went out in the feild for serious hands on experiance and got his head handed to him on a platter….reality
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“Mamzer HaKodesh
My friend was angry because a lot of people don’t see how destructive our financial and political system is for us and how it’s actually damaging us. That’s when he made the comparison.”
Your friend was onto something but his comparison of modern day financial systems would be better compared to European feudalism and serfdom, which was virtually slavery for the lower peasant class, as well. (like the slavs of eastern europe)
The European lower class were tied to the land and had no power and no government protection from the Lord of the Manor…I do believe they were aware that they were practically slaves, hence the French Revolution and other rebellions like in England.
I believe the black American slaves psychologically did whatever it took to survive their nightmare the best way they could, like most prisoners do.
Many Africans fought back immediately once they hit North/South American shores.
In the Caribbean islands like Jamaica, my mother’s ancestors, the Maroons (native indians and Africans), were fighting the British from day 1 (1655)…they refused to be slaves for the British.
The Florida Seminoles (Native tribe) gave amnesty to the African slaves, and many US government policies were made in order to bring them back, since Florida was a Spanish Territory….that’s just how fanatical the white American government felt about making sure they kept slavery alive and well.
The slaves were not ignorant of their situation. You should educate your friend, Mamzer, since the school system does a piss poor job.
It’s the marginalizaton of the experiences of blacks in the diaspora that strengthens misinformation, perceptions, and stereotypes.
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Wilson,
I agree. That’s all I can say.
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I could just see ulf there walking around the ghetto in his pith helmet with the pince nez on…
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@v8driver
I am sorry but I have no idea what that means….could you explain please?
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Being raised in the 60’s , I can tell you, the discrimination and ignorance was total
You have to understand, Julia, with the gorgous Dianne Carrol in the first black lead on American TV , was a big deal. Then it was a big deal to have Bill Cosby as the first black co-star of I Spy…
For sure, most white scholars trying to write about black American life , would mostly be injecting their own limited vision of the truth .
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@Michelle not to worry my brand of humor is not widely appreciated…
I was just kind of getting a vibe from these studies and the small abstracts I could find on google of some type of 19th century explorer walking around like studying some tribe out in the bush
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Excellent post!
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@Thomas Conlon
Thanks for explaining 🙂
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Abagond:
Whites studying blacks, as if, we’re aliens from another planet…Craziness! We’ve screwed up black people for hundreds of years, so, let’s see the fruit of our labor firsthand. Black culture is not the problem, black people who move away from the culture are the problem. Sistas and brothas who are not grounded in their blackness, develop social pathologies that have nothing to do with our race anyway. Violence among black males is an example of what i’m talking about. Our race is god-fearing more so than others, black boys are not taught to hate themselves and each other. However, corrupt influences from outside of the race are always in motion. The public-school system is part of the puzzle, government is part of the puzzle, journalism is part of the puzzle, entertainment is part of the puzzle, and so forth. Black people have no earthly idea about “The Beast” that we’re fighting against, we have no idea. As i’ve said before, if whites can’t continue to exploit black people on this planet…They Die! Dumbing down black folk is not a game to whites and others. I don’t know what the hell they’re studying, because, they know the root cause of the problem…Themselves!
Tyrone
Aquarius Vision
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As I blackman who has been in the struggle all my life actively I can say we spend too much time thinking about Whiteman end of the problem. Of all our problems as a people I can see we are our own worst enemies. Most whites are victims of manipulation by the world elites as well. The elites divide world up based upon race, culture, religion and nationality while they sit back and suck up the power from all the war and human destruction.
In the 60’s we as African American began learning where we come from and today we are still stuck there. Many fake wanna be freedom fighters keep us angry at whites and arrogant about the great civilization our ancestors built not us. We have to forgive the past and move forward and take care of our eternal problems. There are people within our race who are more of threat than any whiteman.
Peace.
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This entry made me revisit your Matriarchy post (and set someone straight). The report by Senator Moynihan would probably qualify under this heading especially when you consider that the data was used to support a hypothesis not draw a conclusion based on that data.
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Do you think there was any progress in the 60’s since this:
For your information: Djuka (as opposed to Ndyuka), is sort of a bad word. The “Man, you are going to live with the whites, don’t you know… slavery… rape…? At least THEY never called ME a Djuka.” – kind of bad.
Concerning no written culture, the Afaka writing system for Ndyuka had been invented less than 25 years before the movie. An achievement unique for English and its creoles.
No word about the fact that on the 10th of the 10th of 1760 AD, these “primitive” people, won recognition of their freedom, rights to their territory and tribute, by peace treaty. They are mainly descendants of people who were shipped from Africa, broke free and kicked white arse in jungle wars, and invited the whites to peace negotiations.
They had their rights as free people recognized black on white, the last century of slavery happened to other people. Oh yes, and they SHOT at the military patrol coming to tell them about slavery abolition. (No innocents were harmed, the whites were not that stupid that they would provoke them by sending an armed military patrol to them).
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@John Washington
“The Enemy Within.” As i’ve stated before, nobody can whup black people except black people. No weapon known to humankind can defeat us, except, self-hating blackmen and women to a lesser extent. Once we as black people get white chains off our backs, then, we can deal with “black devils” who run around creating chaos and bloodshed in our race. Again, knowing and confronting the wickedness of racist whites is the first step. Black anger means nothing if we don’t know who and what we’re angry about, Yes?
Tyrone
MindScape
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Well, concerning promiscuity, unlike ascribing royal status to a granman, that accusation is indeed widely told about them, and their sexual mores are not a white man’s. Still, why point that out?
I don’t think they were really afraid of white men in general, but rude, uncivilized white men pointing something you don’t know at you without asking permission, are scary. Or for all we know, they knew very well what cameras were and just did not want to be filmed in their “bad” clothes
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@Teddy
Or for all we know, they knew very well what cameras were and just did not want to be filmed in their “bad” clothes
!
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Its possible they were aware of what camera’s were, that video mentions there leaders going to the big city ever year to meet up with delegates or whatever so its not too out landish an idea that they had kept up with what was going on in general society and technology by that point.
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V-4, oh contact with the rest of the world was pretty much existant, they lived isolated, and travel down to the city ALONE was not really doable, but if there were two or more people who felt the need to go to the city, it was quite common.
People were going up and down the rivers all the time, and they must have talked a lot, about what they had seen and heard when they came home or visited a friend upriver.
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This is all Obummer’s fault!
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Who’s that?
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Obummer Hussein – the Commie in the Oval Office!
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Who?
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That guy
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