“Racist White Teen Girls Goes On A Rant About Blacks” (2012) is a YouTube video by two well-to-do white girls from Gainesville, Florida in which they give their racist opinions about black people. No mere slip of the lip, they hold forth for 14 minutes, even correcting commenters who disagree with their racist views.
They laugh.
They smile.
And say stuff like this:
Why can’t they fucking talk right? I hate that! We are talking normal. We talk with very eligible – is that the right word? … It’s like, you can understand what we are saying. Our accents… we use actual words. Black people do not.
The teachers know they’re stupid.
They get their welfare checks, they get their food stamps … and they go and buy these expensive name-brand clothes, and then they don’t have enough money to pay for rent.
There’s black people, they’re fine. They’re educated, they go to school, they do what they have to do. Then there’s niggers who can’t talk right, they keep having kids, they can’t get jobs. … ignorant fucks who are doing nothing with their lives.
And on and on with their n-word-laced mashup of Ronald Reagan, Chris Rock and Maury Povich. They say they are speaking from their own experience – yet:
- You cannot buy clothes with food stamps.
- You can no longer make welfare a lifestyle – why the film “Precious” was set in the 1980s.
- Black women have 2.1 children – the same as white women.
But to prove they are right they point out that a black friend agrees with them! By the Rules of Racial Standing black people are always right when they say something bad about other blacks.
Since the girls did not hide their identities they have received death threats and been kicked out of school.
Half-baked apologies duly followed. One said she is not racist but because of the video people will now have “preconceived notions” of her. The mother of the other girl demanded healing and forgiveness “IMMEDIATELY”.
The two levels of white racism in America:
- Mainstream public racism (acceptable – everyone does it!)
- Equality is nice and all, but the needed reforms are impossible and unfair!
- Blacks are their own worst enemies – cultural pathologies, etc.
- “I do not see race.” Or racism.
- It is wrong to hate blacks but it is all right to look down on them.
- White vernacular racism (Shocking! Only rednecks believe this stuff!)
- Racist jokes – ha ha!
- The n-word – use it!
- Police brutality – no big deal!
- Blacks do not count as real people – they are like cartoon characters or something
- The Truth About Blacks That Everyone Knows But is Too Afraid To Say Out Loud Due To Political Correctness
The second level is pretty much hidden from public view but every now and then it sees the light of day by accident – like the Rodney King beating, Katrina, Dr Laura – and YouTube videos made by brainless white girls (this was not the only one). Before the Internet this stuff would never get beyond their white girl world.
See also:
Abagond
I watched this video again and it saddened me.
What could possess two young girls to put a video online for the entire world to see? Never mind the content for now, I’ll discuss that later.
These two girls, like the rest of us, are living in an age of instant gratification.
When you are mad at someone, for any reason, before the internet and webcams, you had no other choice but to:
1. Go home and rant and vent with your friends and family.
2. Stew in your own juices and suck it up.
3. Confront the person face to face and duke it out.
Now, in this age, EVERYONE wants to be on tv. Never mind having discussions where you say your peace and maybe learn something; now it’s a trend to upload on youtube, etc. And, sadly, the more confrontational and rancid your content, the more ‘hits’ and ‘fans’ you will obtain.
I’m not happy about this accessability, especially for those that are ignorant. It can and will only lead to dire results.
Now for the contents.
I truly wonder why these young girls decided to post an anti-black rant for all the world to see. And why are black people ALWAYS the subject of white scorn? I’ve said it before and will continue to say it, whites are obsessed with us.
Also, we are living in a time where the rhetoric is more vile and rank than ever before. I said to Brothawolf in a prior post about the evils of Maury’s show and its ability to brainwash the public. Perhaps these messages are penetrating our youths after all?
What struck me as telling was the pseudo apology.
And the demands for forgiveness from the mother.
Was she really surprised by the death threats?
Did she really believe that you can upload a racist video and have no backlash at all?
This won’t be the last time we see this kind of video or letter.
I fear it’s only just begun.
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In other words, their opinions have no meaning, importance, or substance (at least to me). These (and others) are what I call wannabe “mean girls” (like the Lohan movie), who’d fold like patio chairs when confronted with reality. I wouldn’t be shocked if they appeared on 106 & Park one day shaking their “tailfeathers”.
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Maybe if enough people see this sort of thing they’ll stop denying that racism exists. Maybe?
For anyone who ends up in an argument re the number of children women have, the census data is in table 83 here:
Click to access 12s0083.pdf
The numbers are per thousand women, so simply replace the comma with a decimal point to get the per capita number.
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How about the upbringing of these girls? Parents, school etc. Funny how they all run for cover or make excuses. Girls are kicked out from their school and yet, they grew up there. Parents crying and moaning. Funny eh?
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What was the actual motivation of their video rant? This is interesting that girls so young have so much to say about an entire group of people; I hear so many young people, 26 and younger, say racism is dead and gone and it’s us older people 30+ who perpetuate it. Some young (er) person posted online that, once all the old people die 45+, than racism will be eradicated. Good luck with that.
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@ everyone
What KILLS me is that the mother “demands” forgiveness and healing. Right! *Rolling eyes*
These girls and their mother(s) are what Abagond calls “Useful Idiots.” Like Dave Lister, Lara, Eco, Randy, Yawn, and the millions before them, listening to them talk provides invaluable information about how white people act either explicitly, implicitly, or tacitly to perpetuate this system of hate.
Then these “people” will deny the prevalence of racism or attempt to refute its effects or claim that Blacks engage in exaggeration or excessive self-pity. As if they even have a clue! This thing is infuriating.
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Ladies. Ladies. Loose lips, sink ships.
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What the fuck is wrong with these girls?
Oh yeah, racism.
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Frankly, I don’t care if these girls or their parents feel hurt or not. I simply don’t. Right now, I’m just past the point of hearing their phony apologies because in the end, the same BS will continue, maybe not by them, but by someone else…
I’ll have more to say later on…
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Lions don’t listen to the prattle of sheep. People like this would break instantly if they EVER found themselves miraculously BLESSED with dark skin and DNA structure mimicking hair.
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The funny thing is that by making a video about their perceptions of
blacks“niggers” (because its not all blacks) ,they served only to reinforce the stereotype of the “Upper class white ditz with no active parents”. LOLIRONY.LikeLike
@Oyan, Depends on the individual. I talk to my mother about racism all the time she knows it exists and has dealt with it on a number of occasions. A White woman clutched her purse as soon as she saw her (even though my mother had on a beautiful dress looking elegant) but she’s not concerned she looks at it like move on don’t let anything stop you (I don’t agree) though she’s getting more concerned anyway, I tell her because whites do own pretty much everything they can stop you sometimes. Plus I believe racism=power though she doesn’t. Anyway, though I am 16 don’t let the age fool you. I pretty much was an outcast at my school(I’m home schooled now) because I cared about education and World peace I would rather talk about politics than Britney Spears or Beyonce, I also like to talk about race since y’know we’re in a country that REALLY revolves around it but none of them understand and would rather listen to Lil Wayne. Among cousins it’s the same, I hang out with Aunts and Uncles and discuss important topics. My point is though their are ignorant stupid teens we’re not all like that but than again I don’t even consider myself a teen, there is never any connection when I talk with people my age, they never understand me and random people underestimate me because of my age.
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I find it ironic when Whites talk about the way some of us talk. It’s like did you forget about Rednecks/TrailerTrash.The reason why some of us speak Ebonics is because whites didn’t let us get education black kids saw their parents talk like that and it passed on, something Black people couldn’t help it, Whites on the other hand had access to Education as a matter of fact they had access to everything, so for them talking like that is not an excuse. Plus, most of us don’t even speak like that.
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Abagond:
This is the “Jerry Springer” and “Maury Povich” generation on display. I’m not shocked by the stupidity of Gen-X, Not Amazed! I guess we can call her a “Wigger” just as much as she calls us the n-word, Agree? This type of foolishness is expected, black folk need not get bent out of shape about it. We have bigger fish to fry if you know what i mean?
Tyrone
Black Eros
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@ Tyrone
These girls are NOT Generation-X.
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@ everyone
Guys, you know what I’ve just noticed?
Doug1 is missing from this conversation.
Where is all the intellectual explaination, Dougie?
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Doug1
“The reason that these girls are on the video stating what is obviously FACT is because they are well informed. This video is just more PROOF of the inferiority of Blacks. If Blacks were to take a lesson from these intelligent young ladies, you would be able to address the issues of your community. This in turn will help you realize the inadequacy of your intelligence. This will be the catalyst that helps the Black community realize that us white people are not racist but have only been the harbingers of truth and justice for you poor Negroids.”
Sound about right, truthbetold? 😛
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@ Darq,
LMFAO!!!!
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Stuff like this is said behind closed doors all the time – by kids and adults. I wasn’t the least bit shocked.
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Don’t you find it interesting that the ‘main’ girl claims to have Cuban lineage?
Now, I’m well aware that there are white Cubans, but for someone who claims that her family had to leave Cuba when Castro’s regime came to force, it strikes me as odd that she doesn’t understand oppression and having to build oneself up from oppression.
Ignorance based on perception at work!
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@ nom de plume
Why the obsession with us? Why always us?
And she became quite irritated when people thought she was Mexican.
That leads me to believe she not only is racist but is ethnocentric as well.
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K-Pop Songwriter Jenny Hyun Goes On Racist Rant On Twitter against black people
http://www.halfsigma.com/2012/02/jenny-hyuns-racist-tweet.html
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/66677523.html
http://www.soompi.com/news/kpop-songwriter-jenny-hyun-issues-apology-on-her-blog
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I guarantee you that if parents, even here, went on line to see what their teen and pre-teen children are saying, in public on facebook and in another secret place that is called “formspring”, you would have your mouth wide open in shock at what these kids are saying, it is much more common than people believe because no one monitors or looks at their own children’s on-line history.
Not just about racism, these kids attack each other relentlessly, and girls are attacked the most, seriously, the text messages I have seen, the questions on formspring, and some of the stuff just on facebook is, not just shocking, but what I can’t believe is that no one else is looking or caring about this. I just got told, again, that I “over-think” everything.
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@ vanishing point
Perhaps this is the new version of cat-fighting?
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@truthbetold,
I guess so, it is so disturbing to me that no one seems to be concerned, they say they are, but if you say something, it’s like, your the bad guy for bringing it up or making too much of it. The stuff I have seen, I feel like calling the parents but it’s a no win situation. Recently I saw a woman from China who friended my kid, and I noticed that another girl accepted, so nosy me took a look and they were sending her horrible “ching chong” messages and laughing.
The sexual stuff on formspring is just mind boggling.
The names they call each other, and these are friends! I just don’t know.
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I think the reason girls do get attacked the most is because both boys and girls will attack a girl but that is just a guess, these kids, especially when they are pre-teen or newly teen, will hack each other’s accounts, too, so know one can really know who did it, Or they make up fake names, the only way you can find out is if you know their email address.
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@ Darqbeauty,
I think you nailed it (the D1 impression). lol.
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Lol…
This would comical if it weren’t so deadly. The irony is nearly beyond comprehension.
Whereas a middle to upper class educated “black man” like Abagond continuously fails to distinguish between radical white liberals and genuine white Supremacists, these little teenage girls actually show the wherewithal to distinguish between civilized-minded blacks and the degenerate nigel. But how big of a distinction is there?
This blog regularly hosts speech far more inflammatory than what the girls have said EVEN as they attempted to qualify their speech.
The lesson learned IS REALLY already the lesson known. These “white” girls, in near prison-like conditions at a >60% black student population, were simply expressing their distaste for being under mob rule.
Ejected from school and receiving of death threats for expressing FREE SPEECH. Mob rules. And because this “school” is almost certainly under federal oversight in one or another, these two girls are have their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to free speech trampled BY the mob.
Truth be told, these girls weren’t seeking “instant gratification” (that’s actually the “teaching” of homosexuality/self-sexualizing), they were fighting back against the Mob and its Mob rule. The may think they have lost, but they should know that they have really freed themselves. And if their parents had any sense then they would recognize that getting their teenage girls out of that mob environment was a God-send EVEN if it came about through the naive boldness of their daughters. Afterall, they are the ones suffering under mob rule.
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@ Truthbetold,
The regime of Cuba prior to Castro was incredibly capitalist and benefitted from the oppression and exploitation of the masses. As soon as she said that her family had lineage from those migres and that he was a tycoon or whatever the heck she said it clicked that she and her family probably associate the Communist regime in Cuba with the “food stamp” Black population. Thus i can definitely see her parents grooming her in that kind of bourgeois venom.
Added to that, her mother’s apology seems pretty tone-deaf. How can one demand forgiveness? LOL.
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^^^ girls are [having] their…
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@ thordaddy
I fear for your children. Truly.
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Truthbetold,
Guys, you know what I’ve just noticed?
Doug1 is missing from this conversation.
Where is all the intellectual explaination, Dougie?
Give him time. He’ll show up.
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@ Thordaddy,
Constitutional rights don’t guarantee that you can run your mouth about others without consequences. Why don’t you go out in the street and start saying vile things about your neighbours. Maybe you’ll see that what goes up, must come down.
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The girls said their high school is 60% black. That is another thing they got wrong: it is only 32%, less than half.
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@ Thordaddy,
Just like these little angels who live in “nice, white neighborhoods” have the right to say what they want under this American constitution so do the parents, friends, and allies of the people they verbally assaulted. She wants a fight. She got it. Noone wants to be around her now. Something she deserves fully IMO.
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Abagond,
Most astute social scientists agree that the threshhold for black inclusion is around 20% before things go noticeably downward. Thirty-two percent goes above and beyond that and so the point still stands.
These “white” girls WERE ALREADY under mob rule AND WERE SIMPLY sharing their personal experience.
What’s your beef, again?
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@ Thordaddy,
How do you qualify your statement, “mob rule?”
They can move anytime they want.
They could move to a nicer, more white school if they have such a problem with Black people.
Made get in with one of those gated community schools.
I love how you think these girls are victims.
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@ thordaddy
Most astute social scientists agree that the threshhold for black inclusion is around 20% before things go noticeably downward.
I would like to research what you just wrote. What astute scientists are those, again?
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JT,
Expelled from PUBLIC school FOR SPEECH and receiving of CRIMINAL death threats.
Mob rule.
What further evidence do you really need?
A Knoxville Atrocity?
A Zebra Killing?
A Wichita Massacre?
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I too would like some links to this dubious research.
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Someguy,
Are you serious?
This is the 21st century. Do your own research. It’s called tap your tips on google or bing or something.
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@ Thordaddy,
See how you like to write cheques your a$$ can’t cash. No wonder why you see it as excusable when these hateful teens do it.
Freedom of speech means nothing if it is propped up by the pillars of intolerance. It is better off coming crashing down. Everyone is for the better in Canada where there are laws against hate speech. It doesn’t suit anyone to have hateful freedoms.
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@ thordaddy
No. It’s called back yo’ sh#t up with proof, son!
You are making all type of wild statements without proof to support your argument. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. That is YOU, not me. You have to proof to me what you say is true. THEN I will verify what you say on my own. I’m not doing YOUR work for you.
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Funny how some people trot out “research” but can never seem to find the links or papers or books to such “research”. If I was speaking truthfully, I would have no problem backing up my claims by providing sources for the information. That is usually what one does when having a scholarly debate. I’m very curious about these ghostly research teams. -_-
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@ Someguy
Exactly.
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@Truthbetold:
“Why the obsession with us? Why always us?
And she became quite irritated when people thought she was Mexican.
That leads me to believe she not only is racist but is ethnocentric as well.’
—
I caught the “Mexican’ thing, too. In addition to the “At least I’m not black” rant, it seemed as though she was saying, “At least I’m not Mexican. (And by the way, I’m half Irish-German” – or whatever. I don’t know about the rest of the country, but in my neck of the woods, Mexicans seem to be looked down on more than other Latinos.
I don’t think these girls did the video in response to being under “mob rule,” nor do I think they were responding to being harassed, bullied or anything else. They were just being themselves.
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He’s probably busily consulting Ludwig von Drakes archives for a Disney song to prove his 20 percent black inclusion research data.
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Nom De Plume
I don’t think these girls did the video in response to being under “mob rule,” nor do I think they were responding to being harassed, bullied or anything else. They were just being themselves.
I agree, they are bullies, and the “mob rule” idea is ridiculous with no base in reality. That is what keeps happening, pple like Thordaddy who keep defending this crap and putting blame on victims.
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@Abagond,
Silly question, why is this video labeled “comedy?”
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How do you qualify your statement, “mob rule?”
Thordaddy is substituting for Doug 1. Once Doug has had his supper and a couple of drinks, he’ll be back!
Most astute social scientists agree that the threshhold for black inclusion is around 20% before things go noticeably downward.
I can prove anything by statistics except the truth.
George Canning
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@vanishingpoint:
I knew eventually someone on here would come to their defense.
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@Thordaddy
You have the “constitional right” to be an idiot and these young girls exercised that right. The consequence of exercising the right to be stupid is and always has been the death penalty carried out by mother nature without remorse, without pity and without appeal.
They richly deserve to have this albatross hung about their necks.
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@ Herneith
Oh is that why he’s gone numerous posts without his usual “radical autonomy” word salad? =D I almost have started to miss it! [/end of sarcasm]
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@ BadWolf
Thank you for saying concisely what I’ve been failing to communicate effectively!
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Hmm. They brought all this drama to themselves. What were they expecting to happen when they posted their rant on Youtube no less? Oh, those pathetic, racist fools.
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Hey Abagond,
Did you see this?
http://www.asianjunkie.com/2012/02/jenny-hyun-songwriter-for-snsd-chocolat-is-a-racist-psychopath/
The topic on Asian anti-black racism could be a future thing to post on.
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Just a heads-up, the Dr Laura link goes to The BET Fallacy instead.
As for the video, those two and Alexandra Wallace before them are disgusting. That’s really all there is to say.
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@ peanut
We can thank Ole’ Ronnie for that.
It’s amazing how people will believe ANYTHING an authority figure tells them, especially if it’s a negative stereotype.
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@JT
You’re welcome.
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@ abagond
” The girls said their high school is 60% black. That is another thing they got wrong: it is only 32%, less than half ”
Perception becomes reality.
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Abagond,
Did you see what thordaddy wrote about you?
‘…whereas a middle to upper class educated “black man” like Abagond continuously…’
Why is black emphasized? As if you’re not really black…you just rolled out of bed one morning and decided to make it up!!!
LOL!!!
I needed that laugh.
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@Najaflow:
@Oh Yeah:
I mentioned something similar to Abagond not too long ago. He said it “would make an excellent topic.” I look forward to this particular post.
Regarding Asian anti-black racism, I agree it’s prevalent in the Asian community. I have been called a traitorous bitch in the past because I stuck up for black people.
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OK.
I listened to about 2/3 or it. For that length I agreed with them.
They’re right. And you uncompetitive blacks are not
I wish we could be done with you in an humane way. Alass we can’t.
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Blacks are a dead weight and criminal burden on our American society. We’d be much better without this stupid but aggressive race of humans. But we’re stuck with them, absent atrocities.
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@JT
Irony is if they manage to get into one of those gated community schools, they’ll be classified as the “n-words” of their peer group, by dint of their economic status.
@thordaddy
Why do racists hide behind the First Amendment when spouting off all kinds of racist, bigoted rhetoric…
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Tell us how you really feel, Doug1.
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Doug1,
Its nice to get confirmation that you share these girls’ IQ. I suspected as much.
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Irony is if they manage to get into one of those gated community schools, they’ll be classified as the “n-words” of their peer group, by dint of their economic status.
@ Mack Lyons,
You’re right – the shoe would be on the other foot. Which might be the first step in redeeming these apathetic and misinformed little brats.
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@Leigh
Regarding Asian anti-black racism, I agree it’s prevalent in the Asian community. I have been called a traitorous bitch in the past because I stuck up for black people.
Under the definition of racism, power & privilege, Asian Americans (3% of US population) can not exert racism against any group.
Sometimes I feel that this blog fuels racism. I understand that according to Abagond, this is not an anti-racism blog, but rather, an attempt to define racism, and I get that part. Fueling fires, I don’t get.
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It is absolutely fascinating that a population that is basically 10%-11% of a country gets so much ‘attention’. These girls thought that 32%, was 60%?
I think among other thing, (history, racism, white supremacy, etc.) it is ‘color arousal’ that keeps Black Americans on the minds and lips of non-blacks. We’re like walking, red flags to ‘others’.
@INeedaDoctor, please enjoy your youth, it’s fleeting; nothing wrong with being socially conscious, but, do allow yourself frivolous, whimsical and carefree moments. This will all be waiting for you ‘outside’.
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@ Doug1
I’m sooooo glad you’ve decided to just be yourself.
Feel better, now?
No more intellectual jargon for you, Dougie. Sit back and let the racism / hatred flow through you. Ahhhhhhhh…
@ Oyan
I just had a conversation with my friend in Queens, NY about the video.
She and everyone on her job saw it.
It seems that blacks are always on the minds of whites, especially the ones who state otherwise. Something about our colour sets their soul on fire.
@ JT
Something that strikes me as odd about uneducated, uncultured whites is they have more in common with uneducated, poor blacks than they do with middle class white scholars. The fact that they share the same skin but not the same thought processes goes over their heads. In any other setting, these girls would be classified as ‘ghetto’.
Go figure.
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I’m curious as to what specific elements of the girls’ commentary which people find objectionable.
Let’s consider a thought experiment.
Say they avoided using the pejorative “n-word”. Say they more clearly qualified their statements to limit the scope of their opinions to specific members of their student body.
Are these statements still irredeemably racist?
The reason I ask is because I suspect that even if you strip away the most objectionable language, there’s still a politically-correct groupthink mindset which would bring opprobrium down upon them anyways.
What if there actually is a population of black students at their school who fit a certain common stereotype. Is it impermissible to state this observation?
By the same token, there are places where you’ll find whites, asians, hispanics, and native americans who match their respective, common stereotypes. Is one also barred from noticing and commenting upon these situations?
Bonus round: it’s interesting that few seem to object to the vitriolic anti-hispanic comments which those girls allegedly received.
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Doug1,
Blacks are a dead weight and criminal burden on our American society. We’d be much better without this stupid but aggressive race of humans. But we’re stuck with them, absent atrocities.
Now doesn’t that feel better? No copied and pasted essays. No white invention arguments. Just straight-to-the-point.
SMDH
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Sounds to me like Doug1 has been coaching Jenny Hyun. Hmmm, saying that he wishes there was a way they he could get rid of Black people.
I bet he masturbates to Goodbye Uncle Tom. Genocidal bastard. We’re not going anywhere and if anyone makes a move to harm my small loved ones in an evil attempt to eradicate them, it would be the last move them made on Earth. Ever. I can’t believe these weird pieces of crap wish that they could do away with little Black babies. And they call US subhuman. Yeah, ok…….
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“No more intellectual jargon for you, Dougie. Sit back and let the racism / hatred flow through you. Ahhhhhhhh…”
LMAO!!!!
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I have a distinct feeling this Doug1 isn’t the Doug1 we all know and
loveloathe. To come out with this type of rhetoric would mean trashing the perfectly constructed image of reasonableness he’s attempted to cultivate when it comes to race/ethnic matters. Once you get into the “blacks are dead weight” honesty, you’re done. No one outside of the Stormfront contingent wants to listen to or associate themselves with an out and out honest bigot.LikeLike
As far as Jenny Hyun is concerned, I’ll just shrug and chalk it up to a K-pop airhead who wanted controversial buzz and wound up getting more than she bargained for. If a picture or sex tape of her with a black guy suddenly shows up, I’ll chalk that up to just desserts.
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They pretty much f**** up their future.
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I would like to thank Chris Rock for this Racist White Girl moment.
Thank you Mr. Rock, for liberating White people to use “nigger” as a classist slur, like they’re slick. As if this “Good Darkies, Bad Darkies” shit is nothing new. Thank you, for setting us back 50 years in 5 minutes. I outta never support your work again.
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I remember when Doug tried to say that the term racist or bigot didn’t apply to him. I’m glad we all helped him out by allowing him to release his inner racist in such a public forum.
Game over Douglas. Game over. HAHAHAHAHA!
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I watched part of this, but didn’t need to watch all the way through. They’ve obviously bought into all the popular stereotypes and why would I want to listen to all the hateful things they want to say?
I think this idea that there is nothing wrong with stating these racist views to the world comes from hearing and seeing microaggressions everywhere. Since microaggressions look like small, innocent things to most people, a lot of POC choose to say nothing and ignore it. Even if they do say something, there are plenty of White people around to claim they’re `oversensitive’ and making a `big deal out of nothing.’ So a White bystander may then think it is acceptable to say or do these things and that the negative stereotype related to it must be true. Especially if so many people around them are saying or doing these things as well. This gives the impression the whole world is on their side and they become desensitised in regards to racism.
LOL! I think they’ll need a lot more than just luck!
I saw this too. I used to be so surprised when I saw POC from different races attacking each other. Not any more. I just sigh and wonder why. Why do they join in with all the nasty racism towards another group when they suffer it themselves? Does it make them feel better? Do they think spitting on one group will make them White people’s best friend and they’ll no longer suffer racism themselves? I don’t know. I never understood it.
Asian anti-Black racism would be an interesting topic, though I wonder if it should be tied into Black anti-Asian racism as well. There’s no denying that, when one person from group A comes out with something racist, a number of people from group B are unleashing so much racism towards group A when it was one racist individual who was responsible… not the whole race. Just look at the Satoshi Kanazawa thread on this blog: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/satoshi-kanazawa-why-are-black-women-ugly/
From my experience, Black anti-Asian racism is completely different from Asian anti-Black racism, but I still think they are intertwined.
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So let us analyze how the anti-Supremacists will have us “live.”
Will vigorously fight to smash the Constitutional right to free speech.
Will pervertedly excuse criminal death threats against teenage girls.
Will gladly accept the long tenacle of the public school system in reaching outside the classroom to punish students’ free speech right exercised IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOMES.
Will be possessed by a singular focus on “hate” with an absolute disregard for the “truth of the matter.”
Where are the black Supremacists when they are really needed?
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I dont care to watch damaged children have a tantrum for all to see so I didnt watch the ‘home movie’ but I get the gist.
Its like some of the commenters on here, these girls did what they did get attention (it must be said that whilst it is understandable in kids it is not in adults). I wonder if their parents encourage them to do something to stimulate/motivate themselves such as sports or other extra curricular activities? Even if they do participate they are probably discouraged as its not to the degree where they excel at it – these are part of life’s lessons though and should not be avoided *smh*
Lets face it, anyone who is empowered personally and has a direction and drive in their life does not focus on the shortcomings of a group of people other than a diversion tactic, because they are not happy with some aspect of their own lives or out of some misguided jealousy – aka shift the shit and place the blame elsewhere
Social Services should be called in to investigate the parents of these wayward teens – all of their online activity should be being monitored. Having a YouTube account is one thing, but being able to post on it without it being vetted by an adult! This is a basic level of understanding that should have been establised between the parents and their kids from the get go.
Their parents must be so proud What better way to put your own opinions out to the masses than ‘out of the mouths of babes…’
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Will pervertedly excuse criminal death threats against teenage girls.
One look on this forum alone should show you that adults do not discern in terms of age when things are said to them which they find upsetting. That certainly doesnt make it right but it is a strong indicator as to how the masses with respond.
So, how do you think another teenager might respond to the comments of these girls? Do you think they will be emotionally mature enough not to resort to the same kind of tirade because their feelings have been hurt too
The parents are at fault here and should take Full responsibility.
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Demerera,
There isn’t a shred of evidence that these girls’ words “hurt” anyone. And that’s what makes this event even more egregious.
The self-centered and self-serving assumption of the “black” liberationist and the radical white self-annihilator is that these girls’ speech was “hate” speech.
But the question of whether these girls’ speech was “truth” speech never arises.
And so we have our evidence of the mob rule of the anti-Supremacists.
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thordaddy, you do nothing but talk nonsense. Also, who is “degenerate Nigel?”
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“”
Something that strikes me as odd about uneducated, uncultured whites is they have more in common with uneducated, poor blacks than they do with middle class white scholars. The fact that they share the same skin but not the same thought processes goes over their heads. In any other setting, these girls would be classified as ‘ghetto’.
Go figure.
“”
@ Truth,
Do you think it is an education thing?
I see tons of whites that are well educated make pretty stupid mistakes about PoC. I.E. Trying to save them/solve their problems, calling them “minorities” incessantly, making clicking sounds with their tongues when referring to African languages, treating Blacks like they are going to be problematic, asking them if PoC “A” is related to PoC “B” , mocking the way they speak, etc.
Then again, these individuals might be educated in say a science but considered as an infant when it comes to cultural education.
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I did hear about the Jenny Hyun thing – even before I heard of these two girls. I was on the point of doing a post on her when these two started gaining traction in the comments. Since the cases are pretty similar I probably will not do a post on Hyun – unless three or more commenters want me to (enough people for a thread).
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@ Thordaddy
Of course it arises. I brought it up in the post. And when I brought it up in the comments – about how the girls said they went to a black-majority school when in fact only a third of the students there were black – you brushed it off with some BS about “astute social scientists”, which you STILL have not backed up despite two or three requests to do so. So YOU are the one who does not care about the truth.
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@ thordaddy:
“But the question of whether these girls’ speech was “truth” speech never arises.”
There’s something I’ve been wanting to say to you for a while now.
It seems to me that your purpose for coming here isn’t to learn a damn thing or to even engage in intelligent conversation.
It’s to incite.
Let me make this clear so you’ll understand your ‘radical sexual autonomy’.
You are NOT smart.
You are NOT learned.
You are NOT anything but a simple, singular, impotent man.
Have you notice that no one here even responds to you anymore except to mock you?
I understand you now.
This blog is all you have. You’ve been kicked off every other blog due to your Patrick Bateman-ish persona.
Your purpose is to come here, interrupt an honest, adult forum where adults are trying to learn, to make yourself feel better because you have nothing else going on in your life.
On Stormfront, you’d be just another Grand Dragon. Here, you get some attention, feeding your low self esteem.
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@ JT
‘Do you think it is an education thing?’
Education is a part of it. Social intelligence is the other half.
I’ve known many well educated white scholars who echo similar thoughts in the privacy of their homes and offices (with the door shut and bolted).
These folks share universtity education, class status, nice homes, etc.
They would gladly look down on these two even though they share similar ideas. Think about how Nothern whites look down on Southern whites even though they’re both racist.
Lower class whites think that white skin is a ‘pass’ into ALL white society.
It is not.
Even whites have to prove that they’re white enough.
My point is, these girls thumb their noses at blacks and Mexicans, I suspect, but they would not be welcomed in upper class white society.
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@ D
I agree about Chris Rock. After I watched this video there was only one person I wanted to strangle: Chris Rock. That seemed kind of odd to me – until I rewatched that routine of his. It is WORSE than this video. It is utterly relentless. It is straight-up cultural poison.
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@ Abagond
Many black entertainers are paid VAST sums of money to say what the masses want to hear. Dave Chappelle spoke of that candidly…and quit because of the strain.
Rock used to be a younger version of Richard Pryor/ Eddie Murphy, now he’s joined the minstrel club.
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Have not read all the comments here, but I think its wrong to post it on your blogg. those two girls are very young, and they more than any other hurting them self. they should been protected from them self. I think its wrong to kick them out of school for these statements, the fact that it is on the net is more than enough punishment.
PS! I use to post as ML
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@ D
That comedic chart routine he did years ago when he went on Oprah was very ironic. The one about “a black person moving us forward one step by doing something good, only to have another one make us take up two steps back by doing something embarrasing”. He should have been the shameful #1 instead of Lil Kim and her infamous nipple dress.
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Unfortunately, you can be highly educated and still be just as racist as these girls.
Look at the men who wrote “The Bell Curve”. One was a professor of psychology at Harvard. The other had a PhD from MIT and worked for a think tank in Washington, DC. Unlike this video their book had charts and long words and footnotes and appendices and not a single n-word – but the message was pretty much the same.
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abagond:
If their school really was 60% black, or even 90% black, would that change your opinion of the video?
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Thordady—
I agree. If I were their parents I’d sue that school district for LARGE money damages. The school district had NO legal basis for expelling them based on that video. None. Zero.
I also feel very sorry for them having to attend a 60% black school. That will seriously harm their education, though the girl speaking is obviously quite bright (and very pretty).
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I actually thought her racial views were fairly nuanced for a young teen. She was simply escaping from PC dogma.
She kept saying “not all blacks”, some are hard working, smart and have good priorities, but rather “the majority in her school, where she lives don’t graduate high school” etc. While I imagine she’s exaggerating some, it might just be only some.
She doesn’t seem to have looked into what part of the differences she’s observed are genetic versus cultural etc., or to especially care. She just sees what she sees and doesn’t like the elaborate sets of excuses and explanations that PC dogma supplies.
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Randy
Basically blacks and white left wingers find saying anything negative about black Americans in general, regardless of how true, to be “racis, racis, racis”. I’m done with that.
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@Thordaddy
There isn’t a shred of evidence that these girls’ words “hurt” anyone. And that’s what makes this event even more egregious.
The self-centered and self-serving assumption of the “black” liberationist and the radical white self-annihilator is that these girls’ speech was “hate” speech.
I dont recall saying it was a ‘hate’ speech – You seem much more acutely aware of vitriol of this kind than moi. And neither do I recall saying that I was ‘quoting’ that anyone stated that it ‘hurt’ them – I was merely wondering how another teenager viewing this would take it and I put it to you that another teenager would have an emotional response to it. Just in the same way that these teenage girls who, lacking restraint and self control, as young can adolescents can and often do, had their tantrum, other teenagers are often influenced by their peer group and would behave similarly.
But the question of whether these girls’ speech was “truth” speech never arises.
Only a total dolt would defer to teenagers as being the arbiters of truth. Even in adults, you find the most ridiculous and narrow of views come from those who have rarely ventured past their own back yard. In other words You have to experience people and places of other parts of the world to be able to even be able to start comprehending and contextualising aspects of society. YOU HAVE TO EXPERIENCE LIFE. It is too much to expect a teenager to have the depth and emotional capacity to get to grips with this. Those adults who dont (or most likely wont) are the ones who live in fear….though they are happy to talk as if they are the most knowledgable on a subject. The truth will ALWAYS out though, as it ALWAYS does on here.
And so we have our evidence of the mob rule of the anti-Supremacists.
I sincerely hope that you are NOT implying that I am trying to incite hatred towards some ridiculous misguided, misdirected teenagers.
I said quite clearly and succinctly that the PARENTS were to blame.
How odd that this is the FIRST time that I have been able to decipher, let alone digest any of your posts. This topic has proved quite emotive for you hasnt it. I guess it would for any parent of children. So, for all those who post utter nonsensical crud on here, if this is a reflection on how you conduct yourself and speak in your day to day life, this post must be a stark reminder of the heavy burden of responsibility that rests on your shoulders and the potential backlash should you be negligent in accepting your responsibility as a parent/guardian…..
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Bulanik—
White Cubans are white. Just as Spaniards from Spain are white Europeans. Entirely or very nearly white Latin Americans are white. That’s their own self conception and I don’t disagree with them. Except for Cubans we don’t get too many such Hispanics as immigrants to the US, though we do get a fair number of them as university students in our most elite universities. However, they usually return to their home countries, to be part of the economic/political elite there.
We got lots of white Cubans as immigrants, the former elite of Cuba, in 1958-1979 or so, because they were fleeing Castro’s communist terror against capitalists there, and dictatorship. Those lower class and often common criminal (though sometimes political “criminal”) criminal Cubans who Castro released from prisons and let/encouraged to flee to the US to take them off his hands and expense in the Mariel boat lifts of the early 1980’s, tended to be composed of a lot more black and black/white mixed Cubans – who have done much less well in this country and been a lot more prone to criminality than white Cubans. (Familiar story, what?)
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Abagond–
Chris Rock is funny because he speaks taboo truth. Unlike you.
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@Bulanik
The perception of who is and who isnt ‘white’ seems to vary from continent to continent and person to person. I think that what we have seen in practice differs from some of the assertions I have seen posted on here by US commenters dont you think?
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abagond–
You seem not to have read “The Bell Curve”. I have. Only one chapter out of more than twenty was about racial differences in IQ. The great majority of the book was in explaining and showing that IQ is a highly reproducible and reliable measure of something real, that IQ matters in life outcomes, and the because the US has become an increasingly (but never perfectly) meritocratic society, that IQ is stratifying in social and income classes in the US, with the upper classes having much higher average IQ’s than the lower ones. The book also showed the very extensive evidence we have that IQ under American environmental and social conditions is almost certainly between 40 and 80 percent determined by genetics, with the best guess being in the middle of that range, about 60%. Research since has only bolstered this conclusion.
But yes one chapter did show that 1) it’s not even really open for debate that African Americans have on average about 1 standard deviation or 15-17 IQ points lower IQ than white Americans, and 2) that this gap is also probably about 40-80% caused by genetic differences, with 60% being the most likely.
So yeah that book in a very scholarly way comes to the conclusion that blacks are simply less smart that whites, and there’s so far been shown to be precious little that can be done about that.
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That’s because the truth is racist, as you’re using that term.
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Thordaddy said:
Doug1 said:
It is not called nuance or wherewithal. It is called watching Chris Rock.
Since they are still in high school, they can be presumed to be merely repeating what they have heard growing up.
But some commenters here see them as having deep insights into society at age 15 or whatever, of being truth-telling observers – when they cannot even get the % of blacks at their school right to within an order of magnitude.
Meanwhile these very same commenters do not take what grown black people say seriously.
Why is that?
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@ Doug1
I have not read the whole book but enough of it to understand the basic argument. Most of it is about IQs among White Americans and how it correlates with different things like marriage, out-of-wedlock births, education, social mobility, etc. But the MESSAGE of the book is the same as yours and same as the girls’s: that most black people are dumb shits who will therefore never amount to much.
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@ Doug1
Since when did distinguishing people by their “n********-ness* become nuanced? Because that is what those two girls said: you have category a) Black person and you have category b) Black person. Category a) Black person is worthless. Category b) Black person is great!
Imagine if someone tried to group whites who love to consider themselves such rugged and detailed individuals. They would engage in one of their historical lynchings/pograms.
Where do these people come from? Honestly.
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@Bulanik
As my response is going off topic I have responded on the open thread to you
🙂
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Not to derail any further, but it needs to be said. Out of all the critiques on the laughable Bell Curve “study”, one of the best just happens to be on Abagond’s own site. It gives one damning example as to just how faulty TBC is.
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@ Randy
When I first watched the video I assumed that they could at least get the “60%” right. Finding out that they screwed that up too, their credibility sank to nothing in my eyes. Not that young girls have much credibility to begin with due to their youth and inexperience.
Further, I knew they were not speaking from their own raw experience, that they were not bravely stating some Truth that PC folks want to silence. I know because almost nothing of what they said departed from white groupthink. It is like they were talking about a city they have never been to but just saw on television.
You seem to want to make this about free speech and permissible speech. I have never once said they should shut up. Or that their video should be taken down. Apart from their being minors, there is no strong argument for that. But if they have the right to say it, then I have the right to disagree. It is that simple. There is nothing PC about it.
Personally I am GLAD they made this video because it blows a hole in this colour-blind act that whites put on. “Oh, we are not racist. Black people are just imagining it!”
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abagond said:
I’m not suggesting that these girls have or are communicating deep insights regarding society, but rather that even if they were making truthful observations (and without the use of pejoratives) the outrage would be nearly identical.
One might then conclude:
1. It’s generally verboten in these times to comment about what one sees if those observations are similar to a stereotype (unless the stereotype relates to religious people, white people, or other allowable victims of bigotry).
2. Most of the people who want to silence truthful observers will never admit to such. What does that say about the honesty and integrity of such a position?
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@ Doug1
“The Bell Curve” is off topic here. If you want to discuss it, go to my summary post on the book:
That in turn has links to other posts I have done about the book. It was quite the topic here, but that might have been before you arrived.
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@ Doug1
Glad you finally showed up, friend.
@ everyone
Making this about free speeh is not the issue.
The issue is, most whites, when faced with their own racism or the racism of other whites, will try ANY reason, sane or not, to defend their people’s actions.
Some examples:
” She’s young. You have to understand…she didn’t know…”
” It’s not her fault, it’s her time of the month.”
” Well…maybe you just misunderstood the video.”
” Martians came from Mars and brainwashed her into saying it.”
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If I was a mother of a Black child at that school, I would be upset. How dare these creatures attack my child? It was an attack on the Black child’s psyche. Why should they have to be subjected to this kind of genocidal thought process? What makes psychologically harming our children alright? I guess Black children don’t have “normal” feelings the way white children do. And who the hell DEMANDS an apology? The kind of mother who condones this type of behavior behind closed doors. And why were these girls allowed to post a video without adult supervision? This is what happens when you are a failed parent. I feel so very bad for the children who had to experience this venom from the two girls. I just want to hug them and tell them that, “You do NOT have to be alright with this.”
Anyone expecting someone to be alright with this is a fool. The Universe is based on cause and effect. You can’t expect to put this kind of filth up without repercussion. What makes them think they can verbally harass children from their school? White privilege = Bullying.
I can’t stand bullies.
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Basically Whites and Black right wingers find saying anything negative about White Americans in general, regardless of how true, to be “PC, LIBERAL, SOCIALIST”. I’m done with that.
See what I did there.
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What’s amazing, but hardly surprising is that white people such as the white commenters on abagond’s blog are justifying these girls’ rants. How daft is that?
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@ leigh
Ironic, because black people are not only held accountable for their own actions but the actions of other Black people as well. Funny how that works for People of Color.
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but abagond, I thought you said that people are inherently racist. so how could you blame them for something out of their control, as everyone is “racist by default”
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@DarqBeauty:
Indeed. Well, hypocrisy has always been racist white people’s strong suit.
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@ dee
I never ever said that. I do not believe that racism is natural. It is learned behaviour. It is cultural. What I did say is that if you live in America it is hard to escape its racist brainwashing. But that does not excuse anyone from the need to free themselves from it. We are not sheep.
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@Abagond
Whilst not a priority not sure if you got my recent correspondence re the post and if so, could you amend accordingly.
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@ Demerera
Done.
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Have you guys seen the follow-up video?
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh48NW9a23rS22ihXB
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Wrong girls.
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Thanks Abagond
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Not all of their assertions are accurate on the national level. Differences between whites and blacks in high school graduation rates actually aren’t that large. Latinos are the group most prone to high school dropout. Some of their empirical claims can be corroborated statistically, though.
I wouldn’t get too upset over this. Their whiteness is being emphasized here but it’s important to keep in mind that they are just teens, who have a tendency to be brash and use copious amounts of profanity (including the n-word).
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Randy–
Exactly. Well put.
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Wait until they go to college and join the ‘privilege doesn’t exist’ camp. *sigh*
I think the scariest part about all of this is that a. their parents vote b. they will eventually vote and c. they’ll probably have kids.
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Abagond-
How do you know what the percentage of blacks are in their particular high school? Even if it’s 30% on average in Gainesville it could be higher at their school. And an order of magnitude is x10, not x2.
Most of her little rant was centered on the idea that most blacks aren’t very smart, don’t try hard in school, aren’t ambitious, and have messed up priorities in what they spend what they do have on. They’re obviously aware of all the excuse making and propaganda there is around this subject and aren’t buy it. I think whites increasingly aren’t.
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@ Doug1
Wow. I said “The Bell Curve” is off topic here and do you do? Post a long comment on it HERE – even though I have done several posts on it. And have an Open Thread. It is not a “trick” that black people play – it is called trying to keep a thread at least somewhat on topic.
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Abagond,
You have the patience of a saint. I don’t know how you deal with someone coming onto YOUR blog telling your people are mostly unintelligent day after day after day after day. The same droning voices with nothing to ad. The same faulty logic of arguing so passionately with those you deem below you.
I’d write you in for canonization, if you didn’t have to be dead first to get it.
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telling YOU your*
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add* Wow. I’m really off today. That’s what I get for staying up all night watching Adult Swim’s insanity.
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FR–
The second is true. The first isn’t.
The high school graduation rate nationally for Hispanics is 52%, for blacks it’s 72% and for whites 85%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_outcomes_in_the_United_States_by_race_and_other_classifications
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Yes, because Wikipedia is a reliable source of information that can be changed on a whim by someone with ulterior motives. Any other links? REPUTABLE links?
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@ Doug & Randy.
So since you are in full support of these girls, why don’t you elaborate on what bothers them so much? Why they made this video? Who specifically are they directing it to and most importantly what they hope to accomplish via it.
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@Doug1,
But those are the completion rates for everyone over the age of 25. If you restrict the comparisons to just the younger cohorts, the differences aren’t as large.
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Blacks are a dead weight and criminal burden on our American society. We’d be much better without this stupid but aggressive race of humans. But we’re stuck with them, absent atrocities.
How was supper Doug? Suffering indigestion? One beverage too many? Take care dear.
Why do racists hide behind the First Amendment when spouting off all kinds of racist, bigoted rhetoric…
Why not? They ain’t that smart to start. You have to hide behind something to camouflage your stupidity.
I’m curious as to what specific elements of the girls’ commentary which people find objectionable.
The parts where they refer to black people as ni^^gers for starters.
Say they more clearly qualified their statements to limit the scope of their opinions to specific members of their student body.
This is referred to as speaking in code. You can’t make silk from a sow’s ear. In other words, even if you remove the racist pejoratives, they are still a couple of racists.
To come out with this type of rhetoric would mean trashing the perfectly constructed image of reasonableness he’s attempted to cultivate when it comes to race/ethnic matters.
I could tell this guy was a loon at the outset, ‘reasonable’ or verbosity notwithstanding. I think what nailed it for me was when he claimed to be ‘highly intelligent’.
I remember when Doug tried to say that the term racist or bigot didn’t apply to him.
When pigs fly!
Where are the black Supremacists when they are really needed?
They are busy self-sexualizing and self-annihilating like you. Maybe they should get together and sexualize each other. They wouldn’t have to worry about these things!
Also, who is “degenerate Nigel?”
Another self-sexualizer and self-annihilator probably!
You are NOT anything but a simple, singular, impotent man.
I don’t know about the impotent part because he seems to be obsessed with self-sexualization. I’d hazard a guess and say he indulges in this activity on a continuous basis.
criminal Cubans who Castro released from prisons and let/encouraged to flee to the US to take them off his hands and expense in the Mariel boat lifts of the early 1980’s
I thought that was a brilliant stroke of genius on Castro’s part!
Chris Rock is funny because he speaks taboo truth. Unlike you.
You are utterly hilarious because you are useful comic fodder and a loon to boot! Figures you would enjoy these modern day minstrel shows!
2. Most of the people who want to silence truthful observers will never admit to such. What does that say about the honesty and integrity of such a position?
On the contrary Randolph. They can say what they want, but others can say what they want in response.
Doug replies:
Exactly. Well put.
Randy, you’ve got a new ally!
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You know what. Nevermind. I know where you come from and why you’re here. Arguing with people you consider below you is not rational. These people deserve an award for condescending to even acknowledge your presence.
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These people deserve an award for condescending to even acknowledge your presence.
I’ll take hard cash instead!
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Abagond won’t tell you what you want to hear, only the truth. Poor you.
At times I find white Americans to be a rather self-centered species. They firmly believe the entire world revolves around them and their wishes, hence the mother’s demand for an “apology.” Just another self-centered being behaving in a selfish manner.
Doug1 and Randy not only endulge in this self-centeredness, but they also go out of their way to rationalize and excuse such acts. Anyone who doesn’t participate in their self-centered crusade to alleviate white guilt is denigrated and dismissed.
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I can see why the first girl thinks of herself as white but she’s too obviously mixed in features to be white.
Maybe in Cuba or some other place she could get by with that but I don’t see it happening here.
My guess is she has some level of internalized self-hate from being mixed blood.
They are just a couple of losers with no friends, no real ranking in the social classes who have to make themselves feel better by being racist.
As for the truthfulness of their statements, as pointed out they notably exaggerated how many black people there are in their school.
And its mentioned in the post that black women on average have the same amount of children as white women, though is that nationally or as by the population of gainesville,FL?
Because if its nationally it still makes a point but if its locally from where they are at, that would be pretty much the death nell to their argument I would suspect.
@FG
At a nationally level; much of what they state is certainly wrong as for their claims on a local level, don’t know but what little has been confirmed about them we know they are exaggerated by abit.
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JT—
I wouldn’t say I’m in full support of them. I don’t like their use of the N word for example. That’s a taboo I’m willing to live with. What’s the point of using racially inflammatory language. There’s no “truths” conveyed by that word. They also exaggerated a good lot, but I imagine they do that about a lot of things. I did like that they said not all blacks are unintelligent, and some do try hard and do well in school and so on. I also like that they weren’t afraid to contravene PC taboos.
Blacks say much more racially inflammatory and clearly hate motivated things about whites all the time, including on this blog, blogger and commentors alike. They’re simply of a different nature.
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The most damning thing about their rant, is that most white and nonblanks believe this on the likert scale:
1.) Strongly disagree
2.) Disagree
3.) Neither agree nor disagree…..Undecided…25%..based on media ‘situations’
4.) ……..Agree………..40%
5.) ……..Strongly Agree…..35%
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“NONBLACKS”
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Mack—
Calling our arguments “self-centered” doesn’t even make any sense.
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Doug1,
Sorry I missed the part about what you might imagine their motivation would be to post such a video to an unspecified audience.
And do you think it is possible for you to identify with the posters here at Abagonds more than you do those girls?
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“I can see why the first girl thinks of herself as white but she’s too obviously mixed in features to be white.”
Given that she’s of Carribean Hispanic origin and has a slight tan, there’s a good chance she’s actually Afrodescendant herself. Nevertheless, she’s definitely white in social sense in 2012 America.
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@ Doug
Statement #1
Blacks are a dead weight and criminal burden on our American society. We’d be much better without this stupid but aggressive race of humans. But we’re stuck with them, absent atrocities.
Statement #2
I wouldn’t say I’m in full support of them. I don’t like their use of the N word for example. That’s a taboo I’m willing to live with. What’s the point of using racially inflammatory language. There’s no “truths” conveyed by that word. They also exaggerated a good lot, but I imagine they do that about a lot of things. I did like that they said not all blacks are unintelligent, and some do try hard and do well in school and so on. I also like that they weren’t afraid to contravene PC taboos.
Do me a favor and reconcile those two statements you’ve made, please.
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V-4
Abagond’s wrong about that. They’re fairly close, but black women have a total lifetime fertility rate of 2.1 nationally in the US, while white women have a TFR of 1.8.
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SomeGuy–
Yeah I regret the inflamatory nature of statement #1 and would take it back if I could.
I get irritated at blacks saying whites were only able to build the America they did because they did so on the backs of black labor, which is where it was coming from, but yeah, too inflamatory.
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V4—
Rubbish armchair psycho babble with no basis in what she said or looks like. She looks very white and quite pretty. White Cubans with no black or Amerindian blood are whites, just as Spaniards from Spain are Euro ancestry whites. She’s of mixed Cuban and Irish blood, but then most white Americans have ancestry from more than one Euro nationality. She sounded very secure in her ancestry, boasting about her grandparents wealth in Cuba.
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Yeah I regret the inflamatory nature of statement #1 and would take it back if I could.
Fair enough.
I get irritated at blacks saying whites were only able to build the America they did because they did so on the backs of black labor, which is where it was coming from, but yeah, too inflamatory.
I don’t think people are saying that America could NEVER have been built without Black people. Slavery did, however, provide enough of a helping hand to ensure America came to power at the right time. I think it’s foolish to deny the benefit gained by the free labor of a couple million people. This is not just farming, but blacksmithing, carpentry, “day care” for White children, masonry, construction, Husbandry and so forth.
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Let’s see…
These girls could have done a million different things to get the attention they supposedly desired and could have made sure it was worthy of expulsion from school all the while not attracting the ire of the vicious sheep around them.
Instead, they just decide out of nowhere to go on a “racist” rant because apparently this is what they were taught from birth?
I got a better idea.
The main girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of black male sexual advance that really made her uneasy while the chubby girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of general anti-white harassment that made her join the main girl in her condemnation.
The above scenario sounds to me to be a lot more reasonable justification for what transpired and we know that there were probably some “angry black females” to throw into that mix. They don’t like seeing these black males tripping over themselves for the “white girl.”
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SomeGuy—
It wasn’t free labor. It was cut rate labor. Slaves had to be provided with food, shelter, clothes, usually shoes and so on. Whether the lack of incentives slaves had to work hard and inventively was overcome by their low effective wages is a point of historical debate actually. In the north, Virginia and Maryland where slaves commonly did do the trades you mentioned they also frequently got a cut of the income from plying those trades for others than just their masters, as a way of incentivizing the work.
At the time of the civil war the north was much richer from its non slave wage labor factories and railroads and so on than the south was with its slave labor. The south was probably richer at the time of the revolution though, especially Virginia.
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@ Doug1
“Yeah I regret the inflamatory nature of statement #1 and would take it back if I could.”
No you don’t, Dougie. You liked it. A lot. Made you breathe a little easier, didn’t it?
See, most blacks don’t hide under a delicate cocoon of lies and restraint.
We’re ‘ tell it like it is’ folks.
You on the other hand…well…you know.
Now that the cats out of the bag, deal with it.
“I get irritated at blacks saying whites were only able to build the America they did because they did so on the backs of black labor, which is where it was coming from, but yeah, too inflamatory.”
Oooohhhhhhhhh!
NOW I get it.
We’re the ones that inflamed YOU.
Doug, black people are low, classless, brainless, stinking animals, right?
To paraphrase Mel Gibson, ” …a pack…”
Why are you here?
We’ve all bought something to the table, insight, explanations, theories about the media, to give reason for all this video/webcam vitriol.
Why are you here?
For Herneith’s insults?
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” I got a better idea.
The main girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of black male sexual advance that really made her uneasy while the chubby girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of general anti-white harassment that made her join the main girl in her condemnation.
The above scenario sounds to me to be a lot more reasonable justification for what transpired and we know that there were probably some “angry black females” to throw into that mix. They don’t like seeing these black males tripping over themselves for the “white girl.”
WOW!!!!
I’m speechless.
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Abagond—
If you consider it racist for whites to think that blacks are not nearly as smart on average as white people or NE Asians, then yeah by far most white people are racist, because the truth is racist by that definition (which makes that definition absurd). (“Racist” definition #2.)
Those who claim that there’s no racial difference in intelligence are usually lying for ideological and social class reasons. The cultural Marxist left got it to be not politically correct and in fact a great moral evil to be racist back when racist meant being bigoted and hateful towards all or nearly all black people, having irrational prejudices against them, and pre judging all black individuals by their group averages or lower than averages attitudes and performance. That’s still properly what it should be limited to. Call that racist definition #1. Then once the moral necessity of not being that kind of racist was thoroughly in place, the left somehow kept expanding what was considered racist, to now it including noticing any differences in group performance that don’t show blacks in a good light – which is ridiculous. Call that “racist” definition #2.
I don’t think that rant by those girls was the racism #1, even though they did exaggerate. They also distinguished between N word blacks and middle class blacks in just the way that many black people do, including Chris Rock in some of his comedy skits for example. It was “racist” by definition #2, but then so is the truth.
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@ Doug1
Don’t pee on my boots and tell me it’s raining.
The fact that you’ve ‘created’ various degrees of racism, tells me:
1. You’re even more far gone than we realize.
2. I’m starting to believe that YOU believe the things you’re saying
3. You need to get thordaddy’s number.
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@ Bulanik
I’m never gonna get that answer, will I?
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Truthbetold—
I’ve never said anything like that.
What I have said is that considerably lower average black IQ, greater aggressiveness, combined with certain black cultural issues such as a 72% rate of out of wedlock births and resulting majority fatherlessness children which especially negatively impacts boys, less actual emphasis on school achievement as opposed to lip service in black families compared to white ones (and esp. compared to Asian ones) and the like make up far, far more of the reason for continuing gaps in black school, income and wealth success in America than any continuing white racism. Also to point out that other races such as East and South Asians are far more racist about blacks than American whites are.
To do my bit to keep this place a little more real. To provide a race realist perspective on what is said here. Also see the above.
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truthbetold–
My answer to you is in moderation.
No, I’m saying that what’s called “racism” using definition #2 isn’t racism at all. If it is by that definition the truth is racist, which is absurd. The extremely well established fact is that American blacks by young adulthood have IQ’s about 15 points or one standard deviation lower than whites, which is a very significant difference. That matters big for all sorts of gaps. In fact it’s the principal reason for them. There are cultural reasons as well though. 72% rate of out of wedlock births isn’t helping any.
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@ Doug
Calling out Marxism (collectivism) while advocating a collectivist ideology (racism) .
Your the one putting on an act lol.
@ Abagond
I very much think a post on Asian anti-black racism is warranted. It’s an entirely different issue from white anti-black racism though they are interconnected.
I don’t believe you’ve ever done a post on Asian racism before actually.
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The above scenario sounds to me to be a lot more reasonable justification for what transpired and we know that there were probably some “angry black females” to throw into that mix. They don’t like seeing these black males tripping over themselves for the “white girl.”
The reverse is also true.
I am amused that people are trying to rationalise the teenage mindset (though it would explain some of the comments on here). It is sooo emotive and complex that it is nigh on impossible to penetrate…
As a parent of a teen it is imperative that you put yourself back into this time and recall exactly how you thought and felt about things. Heck, I was in lurve with Jordan Knight and David Guppy but I cant see the attraction in either now.
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When Abagond is tlaking about whites he’s essentially referring to white Americans (or primarily northern European descent) and their cultural norms and beliefs. I doubt he’s referring to say, Italians or Greek people (unless they are American).
white = northern European descended American.
Race is mostly a social and contextual phenomenon.
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@ Doug1
Making hyperbolic statements (i.e. “dead weight” “lower intelligence”) doesn’t pave over the fact that you have yet to supply respectable references to support any of your contentions.
Moreover, the overwhelming lack of sensitivity to what you’ve said doesn’t reflect well on your character.
Thirdly, i think most have the posters here have already danced circles around you, rationally speaking.
So how have you proven a darn thing except that you are ignorant?
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Oh Yeah–
I’m not advocating genuine racism. I’m advocating telling the truth about racial statistical differences.
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JT–
Dead weight was hyperbolic and I’ve said I regret saying it. Lower intelligence isn’t hyperbolic and is in fact an extremely well supported scientific fact, even though the media and schools like to cover it up. Intelligence testing for 100 years, since the US armed forces started administering them on a mass basis to volunteers and draftees in WWI, have shown that blacks by young adulthood (the gap grows with age until then as the brain expands, develops more complex structure and matures) have a 15 point or one standard deviation lower IQ than whites. La Griffe du Lion, a statistical wizard, has called this the fundamental constant of sociology. The book “The Bell Curve” established this very firmly by citing tons of studies, and subsequent work the last fifteen years has continued to confirm it. If I cited some of them Abagond would call that off topic. I’ve linked many articles collecting such studies on threads here in the past.
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JT—
This business of calling any not completely PC views per se “ignorance” is absurd. I’ve shaken off the propaganda is more like it, by looking into the science (and history) on these topics. I’m anything but ignorant, as is obvious.
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Darqbeauty,
Ironic, because black people are not only held accountable for their own actions but the actions of other Black people as well. Funny how that works for People of Color.
White folks will defend these girls as hard as possible and try to find reasons why they or their families should not be held accountable for their actions.
But in the same damn breath will point the finger at the entire black race for the misdeeds of one or a few.
That makes no sense no matter how one looks at it.
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“Why are you here?
We’ve all bought something to the table, insight, explanations, theories about the media, to give reason for all this video/webcam vitriol.
Why are you here?”
***********************************
To boldly do in cyberspace what they are now too afraid to do face to face.
Racially HARASS anyone and everyone that challenges their way of life. Their doctrine, their religion, their belief system, their way of seeing the world and others, their supposed supremacy, their unending racism – the evil/demonic entity they worship, love and know as – whiteness.
Why else would THEY come here but to defend the core, the imaginary essence, of who they think they are??
**and apparently wouldn’t be, couldn’t be, much else without their vaunted whiteness (and supremacy)**
All you’re seeing here are their delusions of grandeur in action, via the continual parade of trolls that come here to annoy, lie, pester, derail, divert, deny, twist, elude and vomit B/S. But just as fascinating, if not more astonishing than the trolls themselves, are the responses, attention and expectations of logic and fairness given to these most deluded, unworthy and hopeless of visitors. Although, I could be incorrect …
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Abagond,
Wow. I said “The Bell Curve” is off topic here and do you do? Post a long comment on it HERE – even though I have done several posts on it. And have an Open Thread. It is not a “trick” that black people play – it is called trying to keep a thread at least somewhat on topic.
Oh. Didn’t you know? Dougie is too intelligent to stay on topic. LOL.
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Oh Yeah—
No. White is all Euro ancestry Americans. Italian, Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, Serbs, etc. are all white.
The old 19th and early 20th century racalist term for northern European ancestry people was Nordics.
Most Americans always regarded southern Europeans as whites, though they also saw them as being “ethnics” for a good while, and some considered them not “true Americans” or not founding stock Americans and so on. One can find some who would not call Italians whites back in the day, but only a minority. The same was true for a brief while about Germanic Americans actually, but that went away quite rapidly with them, and they intermarried with Anglos a lot. They equally regarded the Irish as ethnics for a good while and they are certainly northern Europeans, though Catholic ones.
The one group that was for a while not considered white really but now most definitely is are Jews. That was based in part on religious prejudice yes, but also on them coming originally from the Middle East. However the Jews we got in America, the Ashkenazim, initially intermarried with Euros (polygamously until the 11th century among the smarter and more successful) in the dark ages a lot as they moved up from Italy into western and central European lands, and then culturally became quite European as well especially after Napoleon freed them from various laws discriminating against them (that had largely happened in Britain well before then.) By the 1930’s and certainly 1940’s Jews were considered whites by the vast majority of Americans.
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@ Doug
If white people are statistically more likely to commit white collar crimes does that somehow reflect upon whites as an entire group? Statistically?
Should I be suspicious of white people in general as a result of this information?
You can cross-reference any arbitrary grouping of people and find “statistical averages” of this and that, but how does that make you more informed when dealing with specific individuals?
^ Think about the above question and *try* to respond intelligently.
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@ Doug
I was referring to “white” as the social and cultural construct it represents here in America. White culture carries with a it a certain number of connotations. It’s how white people in America construct their identity. I’m not saying Italians or Portuguese or Greeks aren’t *physically” white people.
This is also what Abagond refers to in his posts.
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Doug,
What I have said is that considerably lower average black IQ, greater aggressiveness, combined with certain black cultural issues such as a 72% rate of out of wedlock births and resulting majority fatherlessness children which especially negatively impacts boys, less actual emphasis on school achievement as opposed to lip service in black families compared to white ones (and esp. compared to Asian ones) and the like make up far, far more of the reason for continuing gaps in black school, income and wealth success in America than any continuing white racism.
But before that, you said…
Blacks are a dead weight and criminal burden on our American society. We’d be much better without this stupid but aggressive race of humans. But we’re stuck with them, absent atrocities.
You see, you can try to cover up your ass as much as possible, but the fact is you’ve not only brought nothing exclusive or constructive, but you are ridiculous enough to derail a topic with subjects pertaining to I.Q.s and white achievements.
Here’s the bottom line, You, Thordaddy, these two girls and their parents have no compassion for blacks because you don’t have the intelligence or the heart to consider them as fully human. You see black skin first. Then, you find faults real or imagined and link them to black skin.
This is not about “scientific” information or empirical evidence. Forget that for now if you can. This is simply about treating all people the way YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.
When you pull out the usual statements like the ones you’ve mentioned above, that is hurtful. It tells us that something wrong is built into our being.
Those of us who believe in God, in a sense people like you are telling them that somehow, they are a mistake of God.
It’s also like saying we are the defective models of a product in mass production while you, white people, are the approved products of a divine force.
Of course you can’t comprehend what I’m saying. Something will conjure you up to write a rebuttal to this statement. You see you can’t understand mostly because you don’t want to understand. As you’ve made it clear in your arguments, black people are “defective”. Your dedication to race realism has made your heart cold, son.
So, there’s no point in stating our case because you’ve already made a conclusion and is sticking to it.
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Oh Yeah–
That’s a left wing academic lie, begun I believe by American cultural anthropologists. The one drop rule is largely a social construct, true. That isn’t applied to any other racial admixtures in America. Only to ones involving blacks, and these days it’s socially and politically enforced almost entirely by blacks. Whites tend to want to call mixed race black whites “mixed”. Blacks are the push back. But only 10% of culturally identified blacks have more than 50% white ancestry. The average white ancestry of blacks is 20%, but x out the 10% who are more than 50%, it’s around 17%.
Race is all about ancestry. The biological / genetic major geographic races (of which there are between 5 and 7 depending on where one wants to draw the major divisions) and also sub sub sub races or ethnicities of people can be and are all the time determined by genetic sequencing with very great reliability. This is going on constantly now in genetics labs, mostly to study the prehistory of human populations.
Although there’s lots of racial mixing at racial biological clines or boundaries, not many people typically live in those clines (which is why they are clines), there hasn’t been in the population density centers of the major geographic races, or even that much in sub, sub races in many cases. For example central Asia is a racial cline between Caucasians (the superset of which white Euros are a part) and NE. Asians. But not that many people live on the steppe (grasslands) there, and especially didn’t thousands of years ago.
More racial mixing in population heartlands is going on today, but not all that much actually. Only 0.6% of married white women in 2010 were married to black men. It’s mostly only going on in majority white countries, due to cultural Marxist propaganda in our leftist MSM.
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@ Doug,
If i am to assume that your links would bring me to robust studies, I would still say the following:
You have inflated the link between Blackness and intelligence. YOU are INFERRING a CAUSAL link between Blackness and intelligence. Any individual with a post-secondary school education knows better than to draw causal inferences between complex psychological constructs such as intelligence and and any given independent variable (sex, ethnicity, social background etc.) A correlation may exist, but that doesn’t mean that those “researchers” that credit their results to the Blackness of the individual aren’t measuring something else (i.e. the Whiteness of the test; the Whiteness of the education Blacks are getting; the lack of relevance that that education has to their life; socio-economic status; depression, etc.).
Don’t try to sell us $h%t than call it roses please and thank you.
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Oh Yeah–
They aren’t. But they do commit the biggest ones, because they can.
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Oh Yeah—
I’m not significantly more suspicious that all black people will commit a violent crime against me. But I am more suspicious that poor or lower middle class or teenage looking black males who don’t look pretty preppy will. I’m not worried about black guys in suits. Even Jesse Jackson said he’d be a lot more likely to cross the street if three young adult black guys dressed street were catching up on him from behind, than if three similar social class looking white guys were.
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@Doug1
So i would repeat:
Stop using your whiteness as your phallus. It demeans yourself while attempting to demean Blacks and other POC.
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@Doug1
If I were you, I would hate on black people too..i mean black men are screwing your women, and black women look way better than all the white trash out women out there in the world.obviously these ugly little white girls cant get a date, so they have nothing better to do than make a video about a group of people that are way better than they are..so you would have to talk about something negative
about them to make yourself feel better..but reality is, that when your life is over and you
meet your maker, you dont have to worry
about any black people..all you have to worry
about is how hot it will be, when you fry in hell.
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@ Doug
You tap-danced around my question and failed to answer it Doug.
Besides, crime (whether white collar or not) is unacceptable and an abrogation of rights of the individuals involved. Just because I *can* rob a bank doesn’t mean I should or its morally excusable if I can *pull it off*. Do you understand that concept Doug? I digress.
I’ll say it again:
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Chris Rock speaks truth. Obviously.
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Brothawolf,
You’re an anti-Supremacist.
You aren’t a believer in God, but maybe you just play one on the internets?
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@ brothawolf
Ignore thordaddy.
He’s just exercising his radical sexual autonomy for self-justification verses self sexualization due to his supremacy of gratification of the zebra killings!
LOL!!!
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Is the original video still up?
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@ Truthbetold
LOL. THEY are jokes aren’t they. *snickers*
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Okay, so Doug1 says “Chris Rock speaks truth. Obviously.” Coming from him, that’s telling. Doug1 wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him on the ass.
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@Bulanik: While group stereotypes are often criticized as being unfairly broad caricatures, you can find times and places where people behave according to these unflattering archetypes.
I’m alleging that if you make such observations and the observed happen to be black, you’ll always be criticized as being “racist”.
I would also assert that society is weakened when the truth cannot be spoken. That being said, I’m not suggesting that these girls were doing that, however, as only Abagond so far has expressed a criticism based upon a factual analysis of the girls’ comments, few people appear to care.
Herneith:
I completely agree with you. Keep going with your list, please.
Do you say this because you either know or can reasonably predict that their characterization of the black students in their school is inaccurate, or because we live in an age where any unflattering observation about students (who happen to be black) is by its very nature considered “racist”? I’ll wager it’s the latter.
I actually hope to be proven wrong on this one.
brothawolf:
I’m not defending these girls at all. If they were my kids I’d tan their hides.
Rather, I’m simply hoping to dissect the criticism to enumerate the full manifest of what people find objectionable. My expectation is that even if you strip away the inflammatory language, there is an underlying politically-correct double standard which ultimately weakens race relations and society as a whole.
Also, where is the outrage against the anti-hispanic comments these girls received? And aren’t “death threats” far worse than anything stated in the video? I don’t believe that I heard them advocating acts of violence.
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@ randy:
“Also, where is the outrage against the anti-hispanic comments these girls received?”
My earlier statement:
“And she became quite irritated when people thought she was Mexican.
That leads me to believe she not only is racist but is ethnocentric as well.”
What you are doing is called deflection.
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@ doug
Irrespective of the jobs that slaves did, slavery on the whole was profitable. The expense to planters for housing, clothing, and feeding slaves was considerably less than the value they produced. Estimates vary, but expenses associated with the maintenance of one field hand were probably half the value of the revenue the master received from the slave’s labor. Profitability increased steadily in the first half of the nineteenth century, as prices for cash crops rose and the cost of keeping slaves remained level. The slaves themselves became a good investment. As cotton production expanded and the demand for slaves increased, their prices rose accordingly. The highest prices were paid for “prime field hands,” usually healthy young men in their late teens and twenties, but women with like agricultural skills were often sold for the same amounts. The enterprising slave owner bought and sold slaves for an additional source of income.
-Source : U.S. History I: Slavery, the Economy, and Society
As for your claim that factories made more money, can you provide a source for that information?
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Ow, something bit me on the ass.
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Race is all about ancestry. The biological / genetic major geographic races (of which there are between 5 and 7 depending on where one wants to draw the major divisions) and also sub sub sub races or ethnicities of people can be and are all the time determined by genetic sequencing with very great reliability. This is going on constantly now in genetics labs, mostly to study the prehistory of human populations.
I’d like a source on this as well. I’m actually not going to fight you on an emotional level anymore. Any claims you make will now require sufficient proof with proper sources on your part. I’m tired of the horse nuggets.
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Thordaddy,
You’re an anti-Supremacist.
You aren’t a believer in God, but maybe you just play one on the internets?
Will you shut the hell up about me and my issue with supremacy already! I already made my point. Damn! Get over it already. And besides, what does that have to do with this topic in the first damn place?
In any case you and Douglas over there proved my case, again.
And Randy, I don’t know why you’re defending yourself seeing as how I didn’t specifically stated your name even though you did say…
I’m suggesting that since these girls have and are communicating deep insights regarding society, and making truthful observations (and without the use of pejoratives) the outrage should be silent.
Nothing – ABSOLUTELY NOTHING these two girls have said was deep. Frankly, Paris Hilton sounded more intelligent than them. Also, it shows that these girls see reality through a white gaze which will cloud their perception on how they see race much like how you, Doug, and especially Thordaddy are doing. And since they said the same thing you guys have said, that automatically means they were correct.
This is all we’ve been seeing from you people. “Black people are bad, stupid, criminal-prone, and lazy. I agree with that 1000%”. And that’s all you’re willing to believe and nothing more. You’ve pretty much closed your mind to anything else pertaining to blacks and disregard any data that argues your point even though you ask for it. What’s the point in asking for proof if you’re going to reject it anyway?
We POC know where you stand and you can’t hide it behind your “intellectual”
jargon and points that highly the so-called brilliance of whites. You also can not tell us that this society is civil and equal, and the only problem it has is us black people.
But I honestly think that you think we’re too dumb not to see through your charade. The truth is we KNOW. We see right through you. And you’re defending these girls. End of story.
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@ Randy
It’s funny that you’re only concerned about “the things that damage race relations as a whole”, when it comes to black folks taking up an issue with white people who go on the offensive against them. Whereas when it comes to black folks going on the offensive against white folks, you turn into a shameless apologist for dangerous white pathologies, and try to diminish their effects.
Gotta love false white outrage over politically correct double standards, while you promote JUST THAT, eh?
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truthbetold:
Whether or not the girls believe themselves to be hispanic is irrelevant. The comments were made by people who thought they were hispanic, and thought that they were making racist anti-hispanic statements.
brothawolf
That’s actually Bulanik’s modified restatement of my comments.
Mine are here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/02/24/racist-white-teen-girls-goes-on-a-rant-about-blacks/#comment-114511.
I believe there’s a significant difference in meaning between the two.
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I’m inclined to believe that these young girls were intimidated by someones(s) from the black American population of their school;they encountered ‘Mean girls’ who were black.
I do not believe their rantwas not precipitated out of thin air/in a vacuum. They simply utilized existing racist/white supremacist memes about black people, and presented them as their own. The ‘Doug1’ poster is a variation on a theme of these children, who has greater access to more pseudo-scientific literature at his/her disposal. He/they, are one in the same.
I define ‘racism/white supremacy’ per systems theory, namely, ‘autopoiesis:
…..” The term was introduced in 1972 by Chilean biologists Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela:
An autopoietic machine is a machine organized (defined as a unity) as a network of processes of production (transformation and destruction) of components which: (i) through their interactions and transformations continuously regenerate and realize the network of processes (relations) that produced them”……..
………”an autopoietic system is autonomous and operationally closed, in the sense that there are sufficient processes within it to maintain the whole…….
……..”autopoietic mechanisms operate[ing] as self-generating feedback systems that cannot be separated from those who manipulate and use them.”autopoietic system”, may be defined as “a closed topological space that ‘continuously generates and specifies its own organization through its operation as a system of production of its own components, and does this in an endless turnover of components,”……… Coding and markup appear allopoietic,” McGann argues, but are the, “generative parts of the system”,[which]”serve to maintain, and thus language and print or electronic technology are autopoietic systems…”
The young girls, ‘Doug1’, Republicans/closeted racist Democrats are auto poetic in their regeneration of white supremacist rhetoric and ‘logic’.
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brothawolf, didn’t we tell you to stop playing with thordaddy?
@ Oyan
That’s the first time that I’ve ever heard a cybernetic definition for racism. Prett amazing. Tell me, have you heard Gunnar Myrdal’s (American Dilemma) ideas on racism?
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I wonder how many of those “youths” playing “Knockout King” and “black flash mobbin'” this summer got expelled from school or received death threats? Heck, did ANY even get arrested?
Although I didn’t actually defend these girls’ speech, I will certainly defend them against the rule of the degenerate black mob and their self-annihilating white degenerate dhimmis.
The fact of the matter is that under the “rule”
of this cabal of radical liberationists…
1. Free speech is crushed.
2. Death threats are condoned for exercising free speech.
3. The PUBLIC school is empowered exponentially over one’s child.
4. And the creed of anti-Supremacy is further imbibed into the impressionable child’s mind through coercion, intimidation and the COWARDICE of the ADULTS around them.
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Satanforce…
Just what the black man needs in this time of crisis.
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If you’re a black man with children…
How could you possibly be on that team?
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A quote by Randy:
I’m not suggesting that these girls have or are communicating deep insights regarding society, but rather that even if they were making truthful observations (and without the use of pejoratives) the outrage would be nearly identical.
One might then conclude:
1. It’s generally verboten in these times to comment about what one sees if those observations are similar to a stereotype (unless the stereotype relates to religious people, white people, or other allowable victims of bigotry).
2. Most of the people who want to silence truthful observers will never admit to such. What does that say about the honesty and integrity of such a position
A quote by Bulanik when interpreting Randy:
I’m suggesting that since these girls have and are communicating deep insights regarding society, and making truthful observations (and without the use of pejoratives) the outrage should be silent.
1. It should still be okay in these times to comment about what one sees if those observations are similar to a stereotype (unless the stereotype relates to white people, or other persecuted victims of bigotry).
2. Most of the people who want to speak out against deeply insightful white supremacist observers will never admit to such. What does that say about the honesty and integrity of such a position?
Huh?
What does it say about the honest and integrity of such a position?
Okay…
What do ya’ll think, ladies and gentlemen?
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It wasn’t free labor. It was cut rate labor. Slaves had to be provided with food, shelter, clothes, usually shoes and so on.
Yes sah! Slavery was fun!
The main girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of black male sexual advance that really made her uneasy while the chubby girl was probably on the receiving end of a lot of general anti-white harassment that made her join the main girl in her condemnation.
Just say no to drugs!
The above scenario sounds to me to be a lot more reasonable justification for what transpired and we know that there were probably some “angry black females” to throw into that mix. They don’t like seeing these black males tripping over themselves for the “white girl.”
The above scenario sounds like something out of a crappily written novel.
I’ve never said anything like that.
Why not? You know you waaaant to!
What I have said is that considerably lower average black IQ, greater aggressiveness, combined with certain black cultural issues such as a 72% rate of out of wedlock births
What about the positive things such as being great runners, jumpers, singers and musicians?
I’m not advocating genuine racism. I’m advocating telling the truth about racial statistical differences.
Oh, okay, I forgive you your ignorant racist rants!
If I cited some of them Abagond would call that off topic. I’ve linked many articles collecting such studies on threads here in the past.
You lie! Abagond instructed you to go to those links he provided if you wished to discuss it! The fact that you ignored this means you IQ can’t be that high in the comprehension department.
I’m anything but ignorant, as is obvious.
But it is obvious!
I’ll wager it’s the latter.
I don’t place wagers unless it is at the BINGO hall! Wager away until you are blue in the face.
I actually hope to be proven wrong on this one.
No you don’t. You want to flummox folk with you bullshi+
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Oh I forgot!, this is for the trifecta of buffoonery, Doug, Randy and Thordaddy:
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@Doug1
I look at her and certainly see something non-white; I don’t know if that includes black in her as well as something else.
But she looks obviously mixed blood to me.
And maybe I’m wrong here but when did the portugeuse become white?
I mean; I know there are “white” people in Portugal but being mostly white doesn’t make somebody white. Otherwise a whole lot of mexican people and other south americans would be considered white people and thats not generally a common view.
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@ Abagond
Late response, but I knew it was about different girls. By follow-up I meant that another pair of girls from the same state decided to show their stupid despite seeing the reactions their predecessors got.
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Abagond you are better than this.
This is called ‘Racialized Outrage’
the intended purpose is to get a “CERTAIN” group ticked off and pissed off.
not worthy of my time.
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@ Herneith,
That was really funny. Thank you.
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I noticed that too Bulanik. Don’t piss on us and then try to convince us it’s rain.
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@ Bulanik, Jt, Herneith
Morning chaps…
I just realized something.
Where were Doug, Thordaddy and Randy when we were discussing the Ramarley Graham case?
Why here, on this post, did they appear?
Hmmmmm…
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@ everyone
Last night my family watched the video and my little cousin made a very interesting point.
With the latest surge of video anti-black racism by mostly white girls, will America finally admit that racism isn’t over?
And, now that these people are letting their true colours show, will ALL whites be responsible for the actions of a few?
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Bulanik:
I’m saying that civil society is ultimately damaged by the de-facto fatwa against any statements which happen to paint black people in an unflattering light, regardless of whether these statements are true or not.
That these girls used pejoratives and factually suspect arguments in their video masked this underlying theme. In other words, the legitimate reasons to condemn their comments served to hide the Orwellian framework underneath. It did, however, peek out if you carefully parse the criticisms of the video.
Hopefully this clears up any ambiguity regarding the position. I don’t necessarily expect you to share my opinion, but I’d at least hope you’re disagreeing with what is actually being said.
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@ Dear Randy,
Remember when Doug just said what was on his mind?
Remember his sigh of relief?
Just say what you have to say, doll.
No more theories and jargon, no more phrases and links to websites.
Just say it.
Blacks do it all the time. As I stated earlier, we’re ‘tell it like it is’ folks.
Could that be a sign of low intellect? Maybe. Could it be that we don’t know or understand big, scary words? Maybe.
Or…could it be that we have a honesty about us that you envy, admire and hate? After all, you are arguing to the death with us, right? You are here on a ‘black’ blog, right? May I ask you an honest question? Why the obsession with people that are less than you are? It the fascination due to our dark, supple flesh? Or it a need to link yourself with anything ‘soulful’ so you can finally feel something that your life is missing?
Can you please just answer that?
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How is civil society damaged by boycotting vitriol?
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@ Randy
I knew that the girls were not making accurate observations of their environment because it was all on script. Television and film are like that but not true accounts of first-hand experiences: they go off script here and there, stuff comes up that does not fit nicely into one’s worldview – because the world is not that simple.
Speaking for myself, the lower-class blacks they talked about were far more like the ones on television (Maury Povich, Flavor of Love, Chris Rock, etc) and in Republican speeches than any living, breathing ones I have ever known. That should tell you something.
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SomeGuy—
Read GNXP sometime, which is the leading human genetics and a leading human cultural evolution evolution (world history) site on the web.
This was the seminal work in the field, though sequencing techniques have become a LOT more sophisticated since.
Note: “human populations” is a more PC sounding way of saying “major geographical races”. They’re synonymous.
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@ Randy
What are you talking about? Blacks are put in a bad light all the time. Whites CONTROL the image that everyone has of blacks. It is called Hollywood, CNN, Harvard, Vogue and the history books.
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@ Doug1
And the author of that seminal work does not agree with your ideas of race or of blacks:
But please discuss that there not here. This thread is not about genetics and the nature of race.
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@abagond:
I’m with you on this. I’ve met so many wonderful middle-class black people throughout the years, and I have yet to come across the lower-class black people that appear on tv. Judging by the comments racist whites say about blacks, you’d think black people were typically like that. It’s misleading.
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I agree. I saw clips of black kids from that school who were commenting on the incident. They were thoughtful and well-spoken. In other words, they were nothing like what those bigoted girls were describing.
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Abagond:
The challenge here is in making the leap from “I haven’t seen this myself” to “That stereotype doesn’t exist”. I agree with you that these girls are likely taking significant license with the facts.
I have had first-hand experiences which are roughly similar to unflattering stereotypes of black people, so I’m not automatically incredulous upon initially hearing such stories.
After all, every group has members who behave in the “stereotyped” way.
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truthbetold:
I’ve not stated or implied such a comparison.
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@Bulanik
Extremely interesting and informative comment.
The greater the distance from blackness these girls can prove, the greater their whiteness.
From what I have heard/read about migration and integration into the US, this seems to have become the ultimate goal of the immigrant – to aspire to be accepted as White. It seems that some are more consistently successful at achieving this than others but even in the present day, whilst on the surface many have a level of acceptance, there are still some who are insecure deep down about the genuiness/validity of this. You will often find that these are the most patriotic and vitriolic towards individuals who either dont aspire to belong to or are clearly not white. Its a way of ‘proving’ themselves I guess.
Hairs will be split about what part of the teenagers’ narrative stands up to scrutiny, but the impact and import will the same
It is a rare teenager who is mature and balanced enough to speak on such matters without there being an underlying emotional motivation. They just dont have the life experience to evidence and support the kind of statements made by teenagers like the ones in the ‘home movie’. It is not a criticism, it is a fact. They just do not have the depth and emotional capacity to comprehend and contextualise things in terms of cause and effect in the wider world. Some of the other commenters on here have raised the fact that there must have been some trigger and whilst their assertions on what it might be leave a lot to be desired. its a rare teenager who does not suffer from teenage anxt but, what doesnt break us should make us stronger eventually, particularly IF your parents/guardians are on hand to nurture and guide an adolescent through this.
The apologists will do their deny-&-dismiss numbers in the way we are accustomed, and cheer on these supposedly ‘fearlessly outspoken’ white girls for prettily defying basic human decency under the guise of political correctness.
Yup. They can, the do and they are. Its irresponsible behaviour IMO.
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@Randy
I have had first-hand experiences which are roughly similar to unflattering stereotypes of black people, so I’m not automatically incredulous upon initially hearing such stories.
&
truthbetold said:
May I ask you an honest question? Why the obsession with people that are less than you are?
Randy said: I’ve not stated or implied such a comparison.
Randy then stated this:- After all, every group has members who behave in the “stereotyped” way.
Perhaps you are not aware that most of your comments are often condescending and heavy with the implication that your mindset, and your opinion of BP is ‘less than’.
Yes, you ‘acknowledge’ that ALL groups have a stereotyped way of being but you seem to steadfastly dodge accepting any negative stereotypes that have been posted about WP.
Can you perhaps confirm if or what you think has been said on any of the posts/by some of the commenters that you agree is stereotypical of yours and any other ‘groups?’
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Where were Doug, Thordaddy and Randy when we were discussing the Ramarley Graham case?””
@ Truth,
I think they were conveniently missing in action. Not because they couldn’t make up excuses as to why the police officer murdered Ramarley Graham. But because they consider these girls and their rights to spew cruel and bitter comments about a historically oppressed collective (instead of particular individuals) more pressing than the life of an innocent Black man. Their typical White in-group mentality and behavior.
As for the astute comment of your little cousin: doubtful. They will “refence” -deem those individuals culpable of racism as misguided or exceptions to the rule. The whites-are-individuals-so-appreciate-them-as-such-while-you-must-recognize-inherent-white-superiority, catch 22 will undoubtedly persist.
Unfortunately that house of cards is reconstructed every day (it would seem).
@ Herneith,
You are seriously cracking me up today. =D
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@ Randy:
Abagond said, ‘ Speaking for myself, the lower-class blacks they talked about were far more like the ones on television (Maury Povich, Flavor of Love, Chris Rock, etc) and in Republican speeches than any living, breathing ones I have ever known. That should tell you something.’
Want to hear something shocking? (hold on to something)
Most whites that I’ve met have your thinking. Only a FEW of them exhibit the ability to think independently from the herd.
You believe that most blacks that you CLAIM to have met are like the ones those little girls speak of, correct?
Well does it shock you that most blacks claim to have met more whites that are racist, rank and shamefully stupid than not?
The door swings both ways, friend.
One more thing.
Why is it that people of colour are not usually the ones to upload this filth against whites? Ever think about that?
Because we have more pressing things on our minds like finishing school, finding a job, family, buying a house, starting a business to F-ing care what white people are doing!!!!
YOU ARE NOT on our minds in the same fashion that WE are always on your minds. We don’t give a shite what you do, where you live and how much money you make and how many inventions you claim to have made. We are busy living life.
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if this is from worldstarhiphop, they are known for creating the video’s they post for shock value and hits to their site. this may be authintic or it may not be.
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@ Randy
Are there black people who fit the stereotypes? Yes. Are MOST blacks like that? No way. Most blacks are regular people trying to live their lives as best they can. They are not like the cartoonish characters you see on television. Or even the noble-but-boring cardboard ones you see on the television dramas that you seem to watch. They are just as fully human and individual and contradictory and worthy as any white person you know.
Stereotypes do not point to some Damning Truth that blacks are trying to hide. It is the other way round: stereotypes are used by whites to HIDE the humanity of black people. Because if whites could see blacks as people too, as Real People and not merely as Fellow Human Beings or numbers on a chart or buffoons on television, then they would see that their own white lives are a fraud. So it is easier for whites to believe in the thin lie of the stereotype than in the rich truth of black humanity.
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” To do my bit to keep this place a little more real. To provide a race realist perspective on what is said here. Also see the above.”
This was Doug’s response to my question on why he’s here.
Looking at the faces of these young girls spewing venom and hearing the responses of Randy and Doug, I wonder what will become of America. Is this how their children will be raised? Can you imagine what goes on inside their homes?
Are we destined for another civil war? I feel that we’re going to get to a place in society where things are so venomous that we’ll scorch the sky. AGAIN.
Have we reached that place in history, again, where the anger, hatred and contempt can’t even be hidden anymore?
What happened to speaking words of hate amongst your brethern in closed doors, safely out of earshot. At least these people can say they’re not racist with a straight face.
Now, their dirty laundry is on display with the denial as back-up.
Maybe American whites are rebelling from the years of feeling that affirmative action have taken away their privilege. Maybe the threat of our increasing education is too much? Blogs like this one certainly don’t help.
Add to the fact that Obama is now in the white house, well…that MUST be proof that we’re ‘taking over.’
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@ Abagond
Damn, that was awesome!!!
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@Abagond:
Your response to Randy made me want to stand up and cheer! Excellent comment!
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One minute the “black” liberationist is whining about the white Supremacist putting in his two cents and then the next minute the same “black” liberationist is whining that he hasn’t put his two cents in.
Such is the way of the “black” liberationist.
The reason that there MUST BE so much focus on the “forbidden” speech of these teenage girls IS TO GIVE COVER to the mob’s reaction.
Where have we seen this before?
In reality, this mob is really only one step away from demanding the death penalty for these girls.
Think jihadist without the Islamic conviction.
That’s what white folks are dealing with as it concerns the black collective.
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@ Thordaddy,
If that’s really how you think, there is no stopping that type of madness. Good luck with that.
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JT,
How many “blacks” were “hurt” by this video?
I mean, ACTUALLY hurt?
In reality, these TEENAGE girls have been expelled from public and received death threats.
This is TOTALLY FINE with you and your self-annihilating ilk.
Meanwhile, has a single black mobber, a knockout king or an air Jordan seeker been expelled from school? Received death threats? EVER BEEN arrested?
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@ JT
This will never end with him.
Ignore his rants.
He just needs another dose of meds.
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Negative stereotypes of black people are the only “kinds” of black people that most white people are interested in for obvious reasons. Those stereotypes fuel the media and are supported by a mostly white audience.
Black people who do not fit those molds are uninteresting to the white media and the general white public, and are therefore invisible and ignored.
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@ TruthbeTold,
If blaming the victims for the crimes of the agressors makes me a self-annihilator than so be it. However I think that abdicating rationality in favor of white group think would be a greater self-annihilation than what you are suggesting.
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*greater self-annihilation than what Thordaddy is suggesting.
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http://www.schooldigger.com/go/FL/schools/0003000013/school.aspx
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*Click on the “Students” tab in the link above.
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The children of Satan
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Ugh…I got his whole thing backwards. I should have just taken TruthbeTold’s suggestion.
What I meant to say was:
If blaming the aggressors for the crime of the agressors (and not blaming the victims) makes me a self-annihilator – so be it.
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Lol…
See JT… In your radically liberated world these girls exercising their free speech RIGHT were actually committing an aggressive crime that “hurt” people. Not physically, mind you. Just mentally!
But being expelled from PUBLIC school (for what EXACTLY?) and receiving death threats from all those fragile blacks egos???
That’s just “right.”
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Abagond:
I haven’t suggested that they are. My comments in this thread specifically address the unique social penalty which is accrued if a person describes observed behavior which aligns with an unflattering stereotype.
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JT–
I only check this blog out once and awhile. Often for a week or two or three and then not for months.
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truthbetold:
I made no such statement. Rather, I simply mentioned that I’ve had experiences with people who behaved in a manner similar to the unflattering stereotype.
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Yes the Portuguese are Europeans, and hence whites, and have for a very long time been thought as such in America. We don’t have all that many of them here. A fair number in Massachusetts as fishermen, or that to begin with. They’re cousins to Spaniards, and have at times been part of the same nation. The were thought until recent times and maybe still by some to be “white ethnics” meaning not close in a Euro context to the founding stock Anglos and somewhat later also Germanic peoples stocks, but still undeniably European. The former two were once called “Nordics” in the racialist categorizations of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. But that’s not synonymous with European or white.
I will say that the Portuguese in Portugal probably have the highest percentage of black blood in them of any European country, due to the very early importation of black slaves/servants from Africa, largely to wealth families. Second being Spaniards in Spain, mostly due to the N.African Moorish era of Islamic rule. But still both under 5% I think.
What I cited above is very elite level knowledge. About no Americans know what I said in the paragraph above.
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Abagond–
All left wing whites who work overtime to portray blacks in far more successful, intelligent and otherwise flattering light than is reality.
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@ Doug1
Hey Doug!
Nice to hear from you!!!
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thordaddy why is that racists like yourself always cry free speech when defending inciting racists, but deny the same to blacks and minorities when they use those same rights when they object to being dehumanized
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@Doug1
You don’t have to have a detailed knowledge of a people to know if they are white or not.
I and most people probably no next to nothing about them but much like that girl, you can tell when their is something else in them by looking.
I am also from the US, and in my experience people don’t think of the portugeuse as white.
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@ CJ said:
“thordaddy why is that racists like yourself always cry free speech when defending inciting racists, but deny the same to blacks and minorities when they use those same rights when they object to being dehumanized”
Permit me to…
‘Cause he’s racist, hence the double standard.
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Randy,
I made no such statement. Rather, I simply mentioned that I’ve had experiences with people who behaved in a manner similar to the unflattering stereotype.
Yet, those are the kinds that you will likely pay some kind of attention to as opposed to blacks who aren’t like them.
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CJ,
Why don’t you worry about the white degenerates in Canada and how YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH RIGHT to oppose them.
The irony of course is that THE REAL CRIME came after-the-fact. We have an usurpation of the Constitutional RIght to free speech (blatant IMHO) and we have CRIMINAL death threats.
Both are perfectly justifiable in your self-annihilating eyes.
The unfathomable part is believing that REAL Americans want to live under your Canadian craziness.
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Doug,
All left wing whites who work overtime to portray blacks in far more successful, intelligent and otherwise flattering light than is reality.
I’m curious, have you ever met a black person that wasn’t unintelligent, violent, and(or) lazy in person? Yes or no.
If yes, how many?
And did you have the same conversations on race realism with them as you do here? If so, did some agree with you and some didn’t? And those who didn’t, did you have an intense debate citing white inventors, genetics, and I.Q.? If so, how did that turn out?
Be honest. I know it’s hard, but try to be honest with us.
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Another interesting angle to this story is that even though these TEENAGE girls started by making distinctions between the degenerate blacks that they were inferring and other civilized blacks, IT DOES NOT MATTER to the black collective AS Randy has repeatedly attempted to point out.
Ergo, at the level of foundational belief THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between the black on Jerry Springer and the Cosby. No difference in belief between the black panther and the prince of bel air.
All blacks who self-identify as “black” BELIEVE in liberating from “white supremacy” by any means necessary.
This whole event is a perfect encapsulation of this fact.
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^^ OH MY GOD!
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Truthbetold,
Clearly, you aren’t an American black.
Actually, who is an American black on this blog?
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@ thordaddy,
Take your pills and listen.
I’m a mixed black women from the UK.
I don’t share your skewered views.
In fact, no one here does!
Except maybe the people still not freed from the Matrix.
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Saw this video on Huffington Post last week.
I couldn’t finish it after she says “Imma get my GED” and the use of the n-word.
Reading the comments on various social sites, told me one thing…most White people believe that there are good blacks and bad blacks and the bad blacks outweigh the good ones. Hence, we are all just a messed up race. *sigh*.
What’s new?
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@Abagond
“Stereotypes do not point to some Damning Truth that blacks are trying to hide. It is the other way round: stereotypes are used by whites to HIDE the humanity of black people. Because if whites could see blacks as people too, as Real People and not merely as Fellow Human Beings or numbers on a chart or buffoons on television, then they would see that their own white lives are a fraud. So it is easier for whites to believe in the thin lie of the stereotype than in the rich truth of black humanity.”
Beautifully and succinctly put. Wonderful work as always!!!!
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Abagond,
Why do so many non-Americans get to pretend like they have the inside scoop on American black/white relations. Even you show clear signs of ignorance as to the “truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.” Not quoting you, just giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, the Leigh commentator said she has never actually seen the types of blacks that are shown on Jerry Springer. What!!! Lol… Then she has basically never be to a midsize to large American city. Which is to say she hasn’t a clue about American blacks.
Truth be told, your whole line up shows incredible ignorance about American black/white relations. Even the sorry
foreign white liberals are ignant as hell.
The jokers DON’T EVEN KNOW that the FUNDAMENTAL trait of the American black man is his liberation from “white Supremacy.”
It this for real or one heck of a construct.
You cats are clueless.
Calling AMERICAN free speech a “crime.”
And calling the criminal reaction the “American Way.”
Diabolical.
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@ Thordaddy
Leigh knows way more about black people and what they go through than you do. Of course, that is not saying much. I mean, you assumed I am for abortion. Plenty of black people are against abortion. But you did not know that. Why?
You do not even seem to know that Jerry Springer is fake! “For entertainment purposes only”, as they say.
Truthbetold lives in America while black. That means she knows more about being black than you could ever HOPE to know. Because you lack the experience and because being white in America means seeing the world in a screwed up way. It means not seeing black people as they are.
You come on here making all these self-important, cryptic, jargon-filled comments but at bottom you are just an arrogant fool.
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@ Randy
Another way to put that:
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Abagond,
Don’t kid yourself.
You’re following a broken down narrative. It doesn’t matter what YOU think about abortion. What matters is how the black collective feels about abortion. Which is to say they are firmly behind a political party that CELEBRATES a black woman’s “right to choose.” I mean, they FIRMLY support the political party that CELEBRATES a black woman’s right to kill her Abagond.
This is fundamental, root cause kind of stuff. Imagine embracing this belief collectively and then spouting “genocide?”
In addition, the black collective is willing and anxious to stomp on the first amendment rights of white Americans.
This post is testament.
And Jerry Springer may be entertainment (I don’t watch TV, let alone Jerry Springer), but those blacks on there are real. Some play knockout king. Some flash mob the local 7-11. Some bust down mall doors to get air jordans. And a few others jump fences at amusement parks.
Just like brothawolf… One professes belief in God and the other touts his Catholicism, but both are anti-Supremacists.
How does that work outside of radical liberation?
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@ Thordaddy
If I based my picture of whites on Jerry Springer’s white guests people would laugh at me. Or wonder if I have a brain tumour.
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“…are ignant as hell.”
Abagond,
Is that thordaddy’s attempt to speak black street slang?
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brothawolf:
I’m afraid you’re falling into the trap which ultimately helps to prove my point. I simply stated that I’ve had experiences with black people who roughtly matched the unflattering stereotypes.
I neither suggested that most black people I’ve met were like this, nor that I thought that they were a representative sample of black people.
Do you see now what I mean about the tendency for people to jump to conclusions when discussing this topic?
Abagond:
I’ve specifically noted that I’m only talking about making non-inflammatory statements regarding observations of black people who behave similar to traditional stereotypes.
That such statements would automatically cause one to be labeled a “racist bigot” is precisely the type of hysteria which I’m attempting to describe.
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Glad I glanced at a few of the comments before I posted because I thought I would be a rare voice saying that I actually feel a little sorry for these kids. Mind you, young or not, sheltered or not, they did what they did and they will have to pay the price for it. I guess I’m just feeling bad that they are about to endure what they’re about to endure. Mind you again, it’s experiences like the one they’re going to experience that can sometimes cure a white person of their racism– well, it’ll take more than even an experience this bad but this is certainly a major step that most whites will never experience.
Let me also add– because I’m a major supporter of this blog and have to say I’ve learned more about race and racism in this country from it than I have learned from all my previous reading– that I don’t want to get into the whole trip of thinking that this blog, and by extension, all black American thought and literature, exists solely to reach white people. Abagond is very sharp at pointing out aspects of white American thinking that is often not immediately visible to white Americans– and I say so as a person who has been guilty of darn near everything he’s noted and that I’ve read regarding white thought. And I’ll even back up from that a bit by noting that where I just wrote “I’ve been guilty…” I repeat a misnomer in our thinking– tha racism is a thing one can just learn about and overcome in a fell swoop. There are aspects of it where that can be true, but over the last eight or nine years I’ve begun to glimpse just how enormous a construction it is; how many parts and portions of it exist in just myself– and I say this as a person who was at least basically taught that racism is something very bad by parents of the fifties who had a few personal experiences that made them accept the notion of racism as something evil, though neither ever seemed to consider racism as amounting to much more than the basic things most whites today define it as– i.e., use of the “n” word, refusing to hire a non white, violence, etc. They did, however, seem to care about the issue enough to impress those basics on my brother and myself back in the seventies, and considering what else is out there now, and what was out there back when we were kids, that’s saying something– not much, in the whole scheme, but something. Additionally, I’d say that compared to most people, I’m probably less temperamentally capable of hate than most others I’ve come around in my forty one years.
But assuming I’m right about my influences and basic personality, I’m still finding racism in myself and doing what I can to purge what parts of it are exorcisable, and trying to manage the rest. Yet still, I come at these things the only way I can, and that’s from my own POV and experience. I hope these foolish kids do something with this experience, not because they deserve some reward or whatever but because it may be through experiences like the ones they’re about to have that racism can begin to die in the hearts of many Americans. Again, curing people of their racism is not the point of this blog, but when it happens it has to be a good thing.
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….I’ve had experiences with black people who roughtly matched the unflattering stereotypes.”
@ Randy,
You’ve had experiences? Or your mind has directed you to see certain things from a slanted point of view that confirm your prejudice. I’d wager a fortune on option 2.
Same goes for Thordaddy, and Doug1. You look for your confirming evidence and dismiss or refence around disconfirming evidence. This allows you to construct the one dimensional profile that you NEED not what is there.
This is all about these girls upbringing and their egos. NOT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.
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Guess I should have scrolled up from the bottom, too. I think I can say a thing about whites on Jerry Springer, at least– they’re very much a reflection of a significant portion of white America. Not a majority, but a good sized chunk. A lot of them are like that because of their ages and will be somewhat different with maturity. And then there are also lots of more well spoken whites who would never appear on that show but are plenty racist– and often have power to act upon their more polished bigotry.
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[CJ,
Why don’t you worry about the white degenerates in Canada and how YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH RIGHT to oppose them.]
no everytime blacks and minorities defend themselves against racists like you they cry political correctness which is a reactionary time and accused of hateing white people
[The irony of course is that THE REAL CRIME came after-the-fact. We have an usurpation of the Constitutional RIght to free speech (blatant IMHO) and we have CRIMINAL death threats.]
free speech is not being supressed only racist fucks like you equate free speech with incite hate ctimes and racism towards minorities
[Both are perfectly justifiable in your self-annihilating eyes]
what do you mean by self annihilating? why are you using big words you don’t know the meaning off?.
The unfathomable part is believing that REAL Americans want to live under your Canadian craziness.
are real americans are white racist scum like yourself? Canada unlike the U.S is not going bankrupt and Canadian banks are number one in the world unlike yours that give loans to people who can’t afford to pay them back
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@ Truth:
I think so. He also called us “cats” like it is still the 1950s.
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@ Randy
“The Bell Curve” was written without a single n-word but it still amounted to what these girls said. I never heard of anyone saying the book should be banned or that the authors did not have the right to write it. If they accrued any social penalties please let me know.
The best way to fight lies is to out them, not silence them. It is all that stuff that white people BELIEVE but know better than to SAY in mixed company – like the stuff these girls said – that makes racism hard to fight. It allows whites to maintain this clueless, colour-blind front.
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Why do so many non-Americans get to pretend like they have the inside scoop on American black/white relations.
My goodness, people outside the U.S cant have a view? I dont come on here to ‘drop knowledge’ like some. I hope to engage, interact and sometimes debate issues that Abagond raises as topics. This is not the first time I have seen a post like this on here *SMH*
In my non American opinion (for what its worth lol) all comments like the one above does is highlight how insular some individuals really are…
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stuff like this don’t move me.this is just word a mouth. name calling . oh please.this is the oldest form of racism. they should fine her parents, for her putting this kind of video on youtube.
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One of the things they mention.
“The Teachers Know Their Stupid”
If the teachers are visibly reacting and treating black kids as being mentally inferior and having less value…..than why is it a surprise that they are dropping out more and not completing highschool?
I mean if the teachers in their school really are visibly and notably racist to the point that students have no problem picking up on it, that has to be affecting the moral of the PoC students in their school.
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Sometimes these social media sites i.e. youtube, twitter, etc. are out of hand. People say such senseless things and get 15 minutes of fame. I agree with Abagond, they can’t possibly be speaking from personal experience. Have they ever been inside a public assistance office? Do they really think seperating Blacks from “Niggers” softens the blow of what they are saying? As much as I laughed when Chris Rock made this joke, I don’t make it my mantra. I don’t even use the word “nigga.”
Was the reference to her Cuban heritage her way of interjecting that “pull yourself up from your bootstraps” scenario? Was that to imply that an immigrant (Cuban) came here and became an upstanding citizen, but native Black American are continuously coming in last place?
Sometimes I don’t want to read this blog, its depressing to know that people seem me as foolish and classless automatically due to the shade of my skin. Its been centuries now, when is this going to end?
I just saw clips of the Academy Awards…an audience filled with happy, shiny White people…not a care in the world. It makes me sick in the stomach. Does Meryl Streep ever refer to Viola Davis as “she’s Black, but she’s too nice to be a nigger”?
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But on a brighter note, this video will haunt this chick for years to come. Who’s going to let her in to their school or hire her for a job?
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This is not Thordaddy’s treehouse. Non-Americans are more than welcome to comment on this blog. They give a valuable perspective. After all, White Americans would have us think most of the world and most of history agrees with them.
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For all the white commenters here:
Would you defend two black girls if they made this video?
Would you argue to the death their right to free speech?
And please be honest…we are all sitting at the edge of our seats waiting.
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Now that I realize a large portion of this site’s visitors are not American, it makes more sense that much of the analysis of American social relations presented here comes off as rehashed stereotypes from the ’50s and ’60s.
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@FG
Now that I realize a large portion of this site’s visitors are not American, it makes more sense that much of the analysis of American social relations presented here comes off as rehashed stereotypes from the ’50s and ’60s.
So, as one or two individuals have ‘fessed up’ to being non-Americans, you incorrectly ass-u-me that this the majority? Flippin eck. If like you, certain other commenters on here go around making such wildly innacurate generalisations in life no wonder issues of race relations in the U.S is such a talking point on blogs such as this……
Whats with all the hostility????
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@truthbetold:
No.
Yes.
I would not defend anyone making this kind of video. Racism, facism, neo nazism etc. are not mine to defend as ideologies. How ever I will defend ayones right for free speech, including these two. Hateful, yes, racist, yes, but also out in the open for us to destroy.
There is an organisation in Germany now a days which helps former neo nazis to come back among the living. One guy working there said in an interview that when he was inside the neo nazi movement he did not understand in how bad shape he was. But he began to wonder if the other side had some truth in their words. Those words, spoken by the anti nazis and anti racists turned him around. Set him free. After a long long time. Now he helps others like him to get out.
It is tiresome, it is a long haul, it is numbing and grinding, but it works. Perhaps a bit here and a bit there, but it works. Perhaps we won’t see it, like those who opposed slavery in the beginning did not see how it ended, but one day it will be a fact. One day a guy like thordaddy is like a strange relic from the times long gone, extint spieces slowly whithering away in a remote corner of human society.
When we have free speech we can hear these, we can see these, and we can argue with them, we can counter them. Just like abagond is doing with this blog. Post by post he presents the subject, forces us to think, argue, draw the light into those dark corners where from the last of the racists crawl out. And expose them for what they are: confused, scared, ignorant, small and pathetic beings who are affraid of life itself because they feel insecure alive.
Without free speech this would not happen, so this is why I answer like this.
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I could be wrong about bathing and shoes
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@ BadWolf
No calls for violence. It is against my comment policy.
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truthbetold
Yes, without question.
The defense of free speech requires that its supporters never allow their opinion of what’s being said impact their advocacy of it. Sages and jackasses have the same inalienable rights.
I’d also consider threats of violence to be far worse than foolish school-kid trashtalk.
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Didn’t call for violence just can not wish these yahoos to be well
(or at leat I don’t think I wished violence on anyone but I may have made a typo or just plain typing to fast)
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Of course. Because noon of us have ever been on the Iron Bird, have access to modern textbooks, access to the Internet. Hold on , wait……
Sigh….
http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/dumbthingswhitepplsay/14746962655/1/tumblr_lwqbaxxgnU1qgn617
Why hasn’t this fool been banned yet?
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I LOVE THIS BLOG!!!! =)
THANK YOU ABAGOND and commentors, yes, even the thick-headed “never gonna get it” racist, I thank you too.
@ Randy- “Confirmation bias”-please look it up =)
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They are silly girls. The video just shows how much life they lived if their stereotypes of black folk come from Chris Rock.
The best revenge is living well. And that my friend- I am 🙂 Racism- it is very much alive. We will be equipping our children to face this type of racism on the schoolyard. Best weapon is knowledge and you continue to drop it Abagond- Thank you!
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@ FG
Yes, please…explain a little further.
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@ randy
“Yes, without question.”
So if you truly believe what you say, why didn’t you fight for the right for Rev. Wright to condemn white racism in America.
Why aren’t you fighting for the right of Sharpton, etc?
Why aren’t you fighting the good fight for us on this blog against thordaddy and doug?
Answer: Because you’re full of baloney.
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Abagond,
What makes YOU an expert on American blacks?
Oh, you got “black” skin. That means NOTHING by your own account. A person’s “blackness” can tell us nothing about said person according to liberationist ideology.
Listen to these foreign fools who think that the way things are done at home are the way things are done in America.
Fact one:
These girls committed NO CRIME.
Fact two:
These girls excercised their fundamental right to free speech.
Fact three:
In expelling these girls from public school, the school has usurped the US Constitution’s right to free speech.
Fact four:
The death threats received by these girls for excercising their right to free speech ARE CRIMINAL.
That most of your commentators are either completely oblivious to these facts or condone such reactions suggest that they know very little about America.
Now, I didn’t at all suggest they couldn’t come here and spout their nonsense. In fact, such an accusation is just more of the same type of Alice in Wonderland thinking that goes on around here.
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@thordaddy:
“Listen to these foreign fools who think that the way things are done at home are the way things are done in America.”
Perhaps we who live outside of the prison your country has become can see stuff that you can not looking from the inside at those walls of lies and fantastic falsehoods?
Perhaps we who have lived in USA years ago can see where that country has been going for decades? Perhaps we see how things which might have become true were deliberately destroyed by those very same powers who stole your future too, you know, the ones whom you do not even see from your low seat inside?
Perhaps we see some things better since we are not locked into your mental maze?
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A little bit like this;
http://dreamsdeferred.illume.fi/
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Sam,
Perhaps? But very unlikely.
I have noticed though that no one disputes my facts concerning this event.
Do you dispute my facts?
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@ V-4
“I mean if the teachers in their school really are visibly and notably racist to the point that students have no problem picking up on it, that has to be affecting the moral of the PoC students in their school.”
***********************************************
Unfortunately, it is not a question of “if.”
There are plenty of studies and research on racism in America’s educational system that suggests it’s more a matter of “when” rather than “if.”
What “racist” teachers and school counselors/officials DO to the psyches of children of color is just the tip of the iceberg.
Imagine – if you will – what young impressionable minds have to endure not just from racist “education” professionals but also from a white supremacist society that has a million ways to barrage black and brown children with a steady diet of debilitating messages telling them that they are LESS than their white counterparts.
It’s a literal mental, emotional, psychological, intellectual obstacle course that all children of color must navigate successfully to complete just high school, never mind the starker challenges awaiting them in college and grad school. White children seldom, if ever, have to endure this type of burden.
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From the outrage expressed by a few choice comments on here I would expect to have seen people on here baying for blood. I certainly dont see this, after all, most sane rational people recognise its a couple of stupid girls trying to get attention by being ‘controversial’ but not understanding the repercussions of this. You would hope though that by the time people become adults they would have grown out of this but alas, that is not the case as is proved on this very blog time and time again….
The parents should definately be held to account for this – perhaps the thought of being a responsible role model and setting an example to the youth is too much to cope with for some people…..
What is awful is that these girls are indoctrinated by their parents/guardians and if this continues, it could prove restrictive for them in the future.
Unless they get the opportunity to branch out and experience life, beyond their own back yard and, oh yes, outside the U.S (some people do actually embrace the chance to visit new countries and experience different cultures dontcha know), then they could become as delusional and narrow as some of the commenters that post on here.
Irresponsible adults tut tut….
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Sam,
I’m sorry, but one can’t steal a “future.”
In fact, the freedom of conscience – which is at the very heart of this debate – is EXACTLY what the anti-American, anti-Supremacist is attempting to crush.
This blog is testament.
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@ Abagond
Are you reading this? Thordaddy is telling you that you don’t have a clue about being a black man in America!
LOL!
And…
Since your blog attracts peoples from ALL OVER the globe with different skin tones, we are wrong to suggest any knowledge or offer opinions of our views on American life. Is this ethnocentrism at its best, or what?
Has thordaddy ever thought that BECAUSE we are not from here, our views may be more spot on to the race relationships in America?
@ Thordaddy
The one thing that we non Americans all have in common, regardless of skin tone and ethnicity, is we all agree that America lags behind most other nations in terms of race tolerance. Whilst no where is perfect, America still has a LONG way to go. Deal with it.
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And Jerry Springer may be entertainment (I don’t watch TV, let alone Jerry Springer), but those blacks on there are real. Some play knockout king. Some flash mob the local 7-11. Some bust down mall doors to get air jordans. And a few others jump fences at amusement parks.
That’s right. Some. Not most…As for Jerry Springer, you’re pretty selective as to who’s fake and who’s real? “Those black on there are real”. What about the whites? I’d like to hear his response on this one.
Just like brothawolf… One professes belief in God and the other touts his Catholicism, but both are anti-Supremacists.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you been sippin on the moonshine again?
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Randy,
I’m afraid you’re falling into the trap which ultimately helps to prove my point. I simply stated that I’ve had experiences with black people who roughtly matched the unflattering stereotypes.
I neither suggested that most black people I’ve met were like this, nor that I thought that they were a representative sample of black people.
Do you see now what I mean about the tendency for people to jump to conclusions when discussing this topic?
First off, I never said that you suggested that most black people are like this. Now, who jumped through conclusions? That’s pretty telling in itself.
Second, you never argued against what I said about you paying more attention to certain kinds of blacks as opposed to those outside negative stereotypes.
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LOL! I’ve been to various parts of the US. You think people live in a bubble like you? Just because I’m a non-American as you put it, it doesn’t mean I don’t see the bullsh!t that goes on in the good ol’ US of A. We see things you stupid racists willfully ignore. Ah, so you don’t like like non-Americans putting their two cents in, eh? Well, get over it. This is abagond’s blog; not thordaddy’s, Doug1’s, Randy’s nor any other racist’s blog.
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Leigh,
I bet Thordaddy’s never even met a black person before in his life, but he uses television as a reliable source on how black people are. And I bet that even if he were to meet one that’s not like the ones on that show, he would still prefer the “Springer types” over them.
For someone who advocates for supremacy, Thordaddy has a pretty inferior understanding of the world.
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@brothawolf:
Unlike thordaddy, I’ve been around black people namely relative-in-laws, and friends of the family. Since my mom’s been ill, one of her nearest and dearest friend is a beautiful black woman whose been praying and keeping vigil for her. Their friendship extends back before I was born. My mom’s friend has lived in the US, and through her I’ve learned a lot about the goings-on in the lives of blacks. Personally, there are many good black people I know than bad black people (the ones you see on Jerry Springer of all places). I’ll be damned if racists try to pigeonhole black people.
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Leigh,
Most black people I’ve known growing up were nice, cool, and respectable. Thordaddy using the Jerry Springer show of all things as a viable source on how black people act is beyond pathetic. This is sad even for white supremacists.
Still, I want to hear him explain his comment, “And Jerry Springer may be entertainment (I don’t watch TV, let alone Jerry Springer), but those blacks on there are real. Some play knockout king.”
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@brothawolf:
Are you sure you want thordaddy’s explanation. It will be a doozy, I tell you.It would be better if he takes his medication first.
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Lol…
The ignorance is breathtaking.
Maybe some of you non-Americans (what should I call you Leigh so as not to offend your sensitive self?) should google:
knockout king
polar bear hunting
black flash mob
It’s a joke to suggest these girls spout “white Supremacy” and downright hilarious to suggest the US public school teaches “white Supremacy.” The entire bureaucratic machine of the public system is radically liberal from head to toe. From teaching homosexuality as normal or teaching abortion as a “right” or teaching the wrongness of free association or pushing for “hate” speech, REAL white Supremacists do everything they can to remove their kids from this cauldron of anti-Supremacy.
Southern California for 15 years. Played on a Division I college football. Been assaulted and had a gun pulled on me in front of my kids by Springer’s finest. I know the AMERICAN black man better than Abagond himself. He will “liberate” from “white supremacy” by any means necessary even self-annihilating if need be. Thus, we have the makings of a “black” liberationist. Class means nothing.
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Wow. Thordaddy has finally articulated what he needed to say.
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Take your meds thordaddy.
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@Bulanik:
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Lol…
This is why “equality” is so diabolical.
Trauma… Come on, man. I’m a pit bull. Black anti-Supremacists “see” white Supremacy “on contact.” I can’t help it. That’s the way it is.
IT’S THE WAY BLACKS HAVE BEEN TAUGHT TO “SEE” THE WORLD.
Like I said before, white Supremacy was put on me before it ever was embraced self-consciously. And now we know why the American black man seeks to “liberate” from “white Supremacy.”
But why doesn’t he do it already?
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@ Thordaddy
I knew two people who were MURDERED by black men. I used to live in a part of New York with an extremely high homicide rate – almost all of it done by black and Latino men. Should I then fear and avoid all black men? Should I stereotype them as killers? Do you see how brainless that is?
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@ thordaddy
“Been assaulted and had a gun pulled on me in front of my kids by Springer’s finest. I know the AMERICAN black man better than Abagond himself.”
Ahhhhhhh, so thaaaaaaaat’s it!!!!!!
At long last, the real reason for your rantings!
Now, don’t you feel better just saying it?
In the same token, we have had countless episodes, traumatic and subtle, to teach us of the ways of American life in the white man’s world.
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@ Abagond
Nothing you say will make this maniac understand. He is racist. Probably more so than Doug. That’s why he uses jargon to beat around the bush.
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@Thordaddy,
See, your previous post was at least consistently shrill in it’s denunciation of social progress. Now you are back to preparing your word salad version to obfuscate your intentions.
Come on! Show us those fangs, pit bull! We want to see what you really believe about Blacks, Mexican “illegals”, gays, lesbians, the Chinese manufacturing industry, etc. (I.E. All of the typical perceived threats to upstanding White society).
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Abagond,
Do I have to spell this out for you?
AMERICAN black man seeks to “liberate” from “white supremacy” BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY even if it means self-annihilating spiritually, intellectually and physically.
This is WHERE EVERY CONVERSATION between black and white starts.
I am not a self-annihilator. I am not seeking “liberation” from “white supremacy.” It’s not even possible. But I also don’t believe that Supremacy = degeneracy either.
And now that you mentioned it, I knew a female that was murdered by a black over some frozen steaks. Pitiful. Does that mean I think all blacks will murder over steaks? No. It just means ALL AMERICAN BLACKS seek to “liberate” from “white supremacy” by any means necessary up to and including self-annihilation and genocide.
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@ Leigh Bulanik,
He definitely missed out on his horse tranquilizers tonight. Yeesh, did you try and read that?
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And of course, I’m the only one actually talking about the substance of this event.
These girls committed no crime.
The reaction had both a criminal element and a BREACH OF A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to free speech WITH an exponential expansion of the public school’s power to punish students outside the classroom AND REACH into their homes.
THIS MEANS NOTHING TO YOU.
And you still don’t get it.
Your “freedom” is a fraud. Nothing worth expending even a single bead of sweat.
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I only check this blog out once and awhile. Often for a week or two or three and then not for months.
You sure had me fooled!
I will say that the Portuguese in Portugal probably have the highest percentage of black blood in them of any European country, due to the very early importation of black slaves/servants from Africa, largely to wealth families. Second being Spaniards in Spain, mostly due to the N.African Moorish era of Islamic rule. But still both under 5% I think.
What about the Sicilians who were ruled by the Moors for 300 years? Thanks for telling us! They are ‘black’ according to the one drop rule! Hence,that Cuban girl in the video is black, if you go by that maxim. This would explain why theses girl are so gung-ho on identifying as ‘white’, and trying to convince others of their ‘whiteness’. You are not the only ones who knew or read of the Portuguese, Spaniards or Sicilians being of partial African descent. It is not ‘elite’ knowledge, one has to just pick up a book. With that being said, these Portuguese, Spaniards and Sicilians will sometimes try to cover this fact up. This would explain the silhouettes of Moors contained on many of the coat of arms within European families during the Middle Ages, although some try to ascribe it to symbolism of subjugation, or symbolizing the scope of empire. However, most of these Moors wore crowns so there is more to it than that.
^^ OH MY GOD!
Lord! Don’t get him started on his rants.
You come on here making all these self-important, cryptic, jargon-filled comments but at bottom you are just an arrogant fool.
That’s putting it mildly!
Why don’t you worry about the white degenerates in Canada and how YOU HAVE NO FREE SPEECH RIGHT to oppose them.]
Thordaddy, you are nuttier than a bag of hammers, hahahahaha!!!!
Do you dispute my facts?
What facts? I stop reading when you go off on tangents about self-annihilating and sexualizing. Plus I have to stop laughing long enough!
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@ thordaddy
“And now that you mentioned it, I knew a female that was murdered by a black over some frozen steaks. Pitiful. Does that mean I think all blacks will murder over steaks?”
No. We prefer to murder over hot dogs.
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JT,
I’ll do you one better.
Prove to me that there are no threats to “white society.”
Self-annihilating fool.
You have to care first.
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JT,
Right before you stands a threat to American “white society” and you are as clueless as can be.
But then I realize…
A “Constitutional right to free speech” means nothing to you.
A “fundamental right” to kill your black child…
Makes perfect sense.
Truth be told…
I sleep well at night.
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^^ “I sleep well at night.”
Now that I don’t believe.
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@ Truth
And Korean shopkeepers prefer to murder over orange juice.
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At the end of the day, the constitution is a document. Not followed by MANY people throughout MANY points in history. Especially, by Whites during slavery. Again, again and again. That document has proven to be nothing more, and nothing less than a piece of paper. Not unlike a piece of toilet paper or kleenex.
And yes, a woman should decide what she wants to do with the spawn that you plant in her body. I mean, she is a human being, not chattle after all. Duh.
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@ Thordaddy
Right, and Ramarley Graham committed no crime and was gunned down in his own home by the NYPD in front of his grandmother. Unlike these two girls, he is DEAD. The police broke down his door without a search warrant – a breach of a constitutional right. The NYPD is off the chain. They are a law unto themselves. It is a far worse affair than these two girls. I did a post on it not too long ago. Where was your outrage then?
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@thordaddy:
“Trauma… Come on, man. I’m a pit bull.”
A Pitt bull? They don’t whine, they fight. Did you fight that guy right there and then? I mean, if he pulled a gun at you front of your kids, your family was in direct danger and as a pitt bull you would have dived straight in, right there, at once, without any hesitation or thought about self preservation. Which I doubt.
Trauma? Obviously. These things leave their marks on everyone of us, no matter what we like to think. And following your comments here, you have suffered a trauma that manifests itself with a very confused talk about all kinds of evils the liberalleftblackcommunistabortionselfsexializinginternational conspiracy is working on, according to you.
And at first, prove that there are threats to the “white society”. Actually, at the very first thing, I would like you to show me a “white society”, what ever that is. Must pretty hard to find one, specially in US of A. Because there is none, not one. You know why? Because you will never find a “pure white” individual or culture. It is that simple.
I have been pointed a gun at me twice in USA. Once it was just hand guns, two if I remember correctly. Once it was assault rifles, automatic weapons. Both happened at night. Very scary indeed and traumatizing. And at both times, the guns pointed at me were held by the police. But I have no extreme hate for them, I am not holding every guy in uniform as guilty nor I see every police man as a threat or on his way to hurt me. I just hate their practises and tactics. The fear those create, the kind of society they were creating by that kind of actions. The policies behind those actions. The society of Fear. See the difference?
As for these girls, dumb kids revealed in what kind of society they have grown up. Perhaps they thoughed that was funny, I have no clue what went on in their pretty little heads, but something very nasty came out trough them.
As for the Pity them, at that age I knew extremely well that I was responsible of my actions and words. If and when I did fkd up, there were consequenses. If I went on trash talking on someone, calling others by names, there were direct consequenses I had to face. Sometimes it showed on my face litterally.
Yes, they were young and stupid and did not think and no, I am not sayig that death threats are ok, but I am saying that if kids at that age do not understand the meaning of what they say and how they say it, or that there might be some consequenses if they do like that, there is something very wrong in their upbringing. Somebody somewhere did not teach them that it is not ok to call people, any people, with names, and that it is certainly not ok, particulary in USA with all its history, to call black people in general like that.
Had they been saying those things about Frank or Joe or that dude over there, that could have been personal, still racist, but personal, but when they say blackthis and blackthat they are giving a voice to something else they did not even understand nor were aware themselves. And that something is called racism.
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Prove to me that there are no threats to “white society.”
***
Trying to prove a negative – I’ll pass.
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Actually Abagond, there is a dispute about whether there was a requirement for a warrant as the officers suggested they were in “hot pursuit.” Now, clearly something very odious happened. Is it a open and shut case of murder as demanded by the black collective? I seriously doubt it. Was it negligent homicide? I wouldn’t be dismayed by that.
But the fact of the matter is that I refrained from commenting on Graham and Houston and decided to let them rest in peace.
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@bulanik: Yes, there are laws against the hate speech in some backward foreign countries which are propably taken over by the selfsexualizing leftistcommunistliberalblackantisupremacist selfdestructing what ever 😀
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And Abagond…
The freedom of speech (really the freedom of conscience) is only below the freedom to strive towards Supremacy in the American hierarchy of inalienable rights.
The freedom to not have the American leviathan reach into your home is a close third. And so while you lament the disputable breach in the Graham case, you happily accept it in the case of these girls.
That’s why you shouldn’t get to decide for us real Americans.
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@ thordaddy
” But the fact of the matter is that I refrained from commenting on Graham and Houston and decided to let them rest in peace.”
How thoughtful of you!
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“That’s why you shouldn’t get to decide for us real Americans.”
Real Americans?
Yup, you heard it here first, folks. Thordaddy is a real American and we, are not.
Real meaning…white.
Unreal meaning…others.
Wow. Did you go to school with Sarah sally-six-pack Palin?
Thordaddy, let’s talk about your heritage. Noone has brought that up yet. You ARE Latino, correct?
Are you a real American?
You know what, never mind.
You’re so crazy with your rantings about nonsense, I don’t care.
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Fact one. You don’t have to commit a crime to be an asshole.
Fact two. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn’t make it right.
Fact three. The school has an obligation to kick these bitches outta school.
Fact four. The death threats are people exercising their free speech just like you said the girls were doing. But now you’re saying they don’t have that right? Again, hoardaddy, um, I mean Throdaddy, you contradict yourself.
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^^^Now I’m angry?
****sighs****
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Thordaddy,
Southern California for 15 years. Played on a Division I college football. Been assaulted and had a gun pulled on me in front of my kids by Springer’s finest. I know the AMERICAN black man better than Abagond himself. He will “liberate” from “white supremacy” by any means necessary even self-annihilating if need be. Thus, we have the makings of a “black” liberationist. Class means nothing.
Oh! This is so typical! Every racist white person that comes on here always play the victim as if to justify their racism. Frankly, I don’t buy it. I won’t be surprised if it’s just a convenient lie. It has happened before.
Thordaddy, that one singular incident does not make anyone an expert on how black people are. You group all black people by that one thug (assuming he existed)!? That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Seriously.
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@thordaddy: I was once threatned by a black guy in USA. He was going to do this and that and some more for me. I was alone, the only white guy around. Guess who came to rescue? Guess who stopped that guy and told him to get the fk out form there? Yeap. Other black guys right there! Really weird isn’t it??
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Brothawolf,
You’re living in lala land.
One incident…
Nah… Many, many more.
Do I really have to list all my brushes with “radically free” black people?
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I think Mik is Thordaddy’s son.
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Sam,
That’s not weird at all.
One white survivalist ran because he witnessed a white self-annihilator that was seeming to rely on other blacks to save him and didn’t appear willing to put up a defense of his own.
I’d would say it was your lucky day. And I would say that such an event is a rare one indeed.
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Thordaddy,
You’re living in lala land.
One incident…
Nah… Many, many more.
Do I really have to list all my brushes with “radically free” black people?
Don’t bother. This is not a place for you to open up about your problems with black people. If you want to do that, go to Stormfront or some other sites created just for your kind of thinking and whining.
Even if what you say is true, it still DOES NOT excuse your thinking and rantings. Only a fool would make such a conclusion about an entire group of people for the supposed actions of a few. And something tells me your demented enough to create these incidents out of thin air to make yourself look like a victim just like some other whites have done like Susan Smith and Bethany Storro.
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of always being told that my race is a dysfunctional, criminal people with no sense of civility. I know you’re not the first person to make that claim, and you sure as hell won’t be the last.
If anyone here is living in lala land is you. You made Jerry Springer as a reliable source of how the majority of Black Americans act. You watch too much TV, man. On that note you still haven’t answered my question. Big surprise.
Maybe the white girls in the video are your daughters by another mother. They certainly share your views.
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Brothawolf,
I’ll let you get carried away with your fantasies so as to justify your radically autonomous ways.
Lol… No I won’t.
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@ brothawolf
In order for most whites to say what they believe is dysfunction within the black race, they must first look at themselves for comparison.
Let me tell you, I was in Brookfield, WI on assignment a few years ago. Very upscale, well to do white neighborhood. On the local news channel, all you saw were blacks and Latinos being arrested for petty crimes and Mary Jane use.
Well…it turns out that one of the major distributors of cocaine was living literally down the street in a very impressive MacMansion. They NEVER mentioned it on the news. It spread by word of mouth, of course in a hushed manner.
Here’s what I believe.
Whites commit the same amount of crimes, on a much larger financial scale even, than blacks. American media can’t handle the truth of who they really are so it gets covered up.
Blacks are not any more dysfunctional than any other group on earth. We just get more attention for doing it.
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@thordaddy:
Well, I did not run and perhaps he could have whupped my behind, perhaps not. I wasn’t going anywhere. But the point is the other guys stepped in and told one to get out. Maybe it is rare but it did happen.
Which reminds me of one incursion I did into a slum in Africa which was so bad no white man can come out alive. I did go in at night and came out, escorted by those same guys everyone outside was ranting and raving like no tomorrow.
Thing is thordaddy, you can be scared, it is allright, but don’t draw too many conclusions on your own personal experiences. Others have other experiences contrary to yours.
Have I met bad black guys? Surely have. Have I met bad white guys? Most certainly, some very bad indeed.
But to say all blacks or whites are this or that based on solely personal experiences is a bit like claiming there is no Australia if one hasn’t been there himself.
What these girls represent is that racist mentality. The same you represent too. Me, I don’t care what your color or ethnic status is, all I care is if you are an A hole or not. Simple as that.
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@thirthtobetold:
Actually in recent documentary they quoted US government own studies which show that there is no difference between blacks or whites concerning the crimes committed but for somehow black americans are convicted many times more often than whites. Also the punishments are much lighter.
For example: a black person gets 10 years prison for certain amount of crack. A white person can have 100 times more powder cocaine before he gets the same.
White dominated university campuses are a wash of marijuana but the police, DEA nor any other organ never stages assault like raids into those. Instead they do so in black communities. Also if a white university student gets caught with some mj he will get some fines. If a young black man gets caught with more than 70 grams, he goes straight to prison.
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sorry about the typo
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And another very strange thing: the more drug arrests the police does, the more money they get from federal government. The easiest and fastest way to puff up the statistics is raid black communities and snatch the small fry. A lot of busts, lots of convictions and more federal funding. Cases against the real big time drug smugglers, organised crime etc. can take years and years without any guarantee of succes. Which ones you think the law will focus?
Plus the local police department can seize anything they can connect to the crime: JoJo is puffing a joint on his porch. Cops come along, arrest him, and can now claim that this was a drug house and sell it and keep the money. They can also seize JoJo’s car which was front of that house since JoJo is now a narcotics criminal and propably used his car as a tool in his drug business.
In some states the mere suspicion of drug criminality, that is suspicion not conviction in court, is enough to deny almost all civil rights from you, including wellfare, food stamps, housing etc.
Now that is pretty weird.
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Thing is thordaddy, you can be scared, it is allright, but don’t draw too many conclusions on your own personal experiences. Others have other experiences contrary to yours.””
I think this key.
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@ Bulanik
Yes, thordaddy is Latino. Now, that makes him even crazier, no?
About Americans, race and violence.
Charlie Sheen uses whores, smokes coke, trashes hotel rooms, cheats on EVERY wife/ girlfriend he’s ever had, hits the mother of his kids whilst she is holding them and publicly trashes the primary producer of his own show.
The punishment for this?
One million dollar salary per episode!
America loves this bad boy. He’s one of them. He is Latino, by the way, but hides this. Emilio, his brother, openly admits this and HAS NOT changed his name. Emilio, however, isn’t as popular.
Chris Brown hits his woman, I’m not defending this in any way…
And become the most talked about man in America; is labeled a thug, dangerous, blacklisted for a period of time and had to beg forgiveness.
Chris Brown is no good.
Charlie Sheen had tiger blood.
Go figure.
The moral of the story?
Carlos Estevez has assimilated into the white culture so now whatever he does, it’s not really his fault.
Chris Brown is a black man, so he’s just no good.
And one more thing….
If Antoine Fuqua had raped a girl, he’d be on death row.
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I recently saw the video these girls posted as well as the apologies. All I can say is racism is obviously alive and well in the 21st century. I as well as most of us identify with a racial or ethnic group but first and foremost I am a member of the Human race as are we all. The differences in appearance are more genetic than anything else. We debate these issues while the true enemies that are apathy, ignorance, and intolerance lurk in the shadows, unnoticed and unseen, just beyond the grasp of our understanding. Racism is but a symptom and not the disease. Not only do we have the capacity to hate those simply because their skin is different, we also tend to prejudice ourselves against even those within our own respective groups. We separate ourselves even farther by having social, economic, and educational distinctions as well. We do this until finally all that is left are small groups, tribes if you will, of people. What is the importance of superiority? Of domination and conquest? Is it in our DNA? Is it humanity’s destiny to hate and destroy one another until its final twilight?
There are things in this universe, in this very world, more than capable of destroying us all, without regard to ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, or gender. You only have to look at the fury of nature around us to see what I mean. As a refugee from the Gulf Coast during the hurricanes I’ve seen firsthand the death and destruction that nature can visit upon us. I’ve also witnessed the solidarity that people can develop during a crisis as well. Do we need some sort of calamity to bring humanity together or are we mature enough to bring it about on our own?
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Say what?!?! Thordaddy is Latino? Jeez, Louise. And all this time, judging by his screen name, I thought he was of Nordic extraction.
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@ verbumetveritas
You words resonate deeply within me.
I too feel the same way about the forces of nature and the Great Spirit.
Humanity is very frail indeed.
When 9/11 struck, I was moved by all the togetherness we showed, regardless of colour. When the dust settled, we targeted another group, Muslims.
Humans are a ‘new’ and ‘young’ species on Earth.
Birds, reptiles and fish have been here for thousands of years.
Perhaps we will one day catch up with them?
Scientists gave us ‘ survival of the fittest’, no?
This isn’t totally true.
In order to survive, working together, as one entity, has ALWAYS been more reasonable for procreation. When birds fly together, they communicate by flapping their wings, signaling to each other where to go, how fast, etc.
Superiority is a human invention.
Racism is a human invention.
Hatred is a human invention.
Perhaps it seems more intense due to the forces of nature, God to be exact, telling us ‘ the time has come’.
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@ Leigh
Yes, that’s what a prior post revealed.
Now, that may explain his source of racism.
It’s internalized.
Plus, he’s crazy as a loon.
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truthbetold:
Both of the people you’ve mentioned appear to have successful careers while exercising their rights to free speech. I’m not sure what you think needs to be fought for.
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@truthbetold:
I’m not surprised I missed this bit of info. Usually, when I see thordaddy’s posts, I tend to skip to the next poster.
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@Bulanik
Bulanik says: In primitive countries like Finland, Australia and the UK, there are laws against incitement to racial hatred.
LOL. Primitive countries indeed. Though I have seen evidence that the ‘Early Man’ mentally still exists in some areas of the U.S…. 😉
Bulanik says: Such legislature doesn’t exist in the US, to the best of my limited knowledge &……….. Maybe hate speech is more ‘okay’ in USA?
It seems it depends who is speaking doesn’t it! Makes me think of Orwell and the ‘All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others’ commandment in Animal Farm
Sat 25th Feb
Demerera How odd that this is the FIRST time that I have been able to decipher, let alone digest any of your posts. This topic has proved quite emotive for you hasnt it.
In retrospect, this comment was quite apt considering the revelation, certainly to me, that one of the main supporters on this thread shares the same/similar racial/ethnic heritage as one of the silly girls. This is particularly in light of our conversation a few days ago relating to this kind of thing Bulanik. As you state, trauma is right as is denial, insecurity and fear. Not fear from those ‘others’ in a physical sense as individuals like this would have you believe to justify their narrow and bigoted viewpoint. Instead, this is a fear of being outed and exposed by white people who share the same indoctrinate as them but with an agenda that effectively excludes their kind. Shockingly, I have witnessed the most dubious of so called ‘white’ people treat another so called ‘white’ person with derision and mistrust because their racial heritage is ambiguous on the surface, such is the pecking order for these things.
These are often the ones who are the most dangerous as they will fight the hardest and the dirtiest in a desperate attempt to prove that they belong. Sad really.
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I still can’t believe thordaddy is Latino. I mean, slap-me-upside-the-head-and-call-me-non-American. 😉
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Bulanik:
American of mostly Italian descent. When my grandparents emigrated to the US, they forswore their former national identity, so I don’t like to use the “-American” suffix.
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Bulanik@
“But in the past I have listened to Latin Americans strongly deny that they have any African lineage at all, but, who, when I looked at them were very clearly and definitely related to black people.
Moreover, it’s a historical fact that this very particular perspective of distance-denial-and-disdain is pervasive throughout all of Latin America.
I have the distinct feeling that majority of white Latinos in Latin countries are as racist as Anglo whites in the US – someone please correct me if I am wrong.”
Linda says,
Bulanik, you are so right on the money! This is one aspect of South American mindset that I cannot stand. This mindset is a huge example of “internalized racism”
South America in early 1900’s welcomed European immigrants so they could “whiten” up the population but since the majority of the African slaves went to Caribbean and South America and there was already a huge indigineous population…where did all the black/brown people go?
into the blood that is still circulating in their “light/white skinned” multiple great-grand children
such as Luis Suarez, a “white Latino”. He’s a Uruguay footballer, whose grandfather is black. Luis plays for Manchester United and recently got in trouble for calling African teammate “negrito”.
http://worldcupchampionship.blogspot.com/2010/11/luis-alberto-suarez-is-striker-football.html
I live in area where there are alot of us Caribbean and South American immigrants and I do enjoy watching these “white Latinos” get checked once they get to the US and realize that the white “Beckys and Toms” of good ‘Ole USA don’t accept them as “one of us white people”
I guess that’s why that little girl in the video felt the need to put it out there that she isn’t a minority or a Mexican.
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Correction,
Luis Suarez plays for Liverpool and called Manchester United player “negrito” during a game.
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@ Randy
Are you aware than Italians are Latin?
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@ Linda
Something I learned when I came to America.
In the UK, I’m just a Brit. Black comes second or third depending on wealth.
In South America, I’m mestiza,
In the islands, I’m coolie.
In Africa, I’m coloured.
In America, I’m black. Period. Never mind, ma, pa, granny…I’m black.
Treated as black, looked down upon as black, a criminal waiting to deal drugs.
I find it amazing as well that many Latinos hide the ‘black grandma in the closet’. After all, where did that golden brown skin with those full lips come from? Where did the salsa beat come from? Where did Yucca, plantanos come from?
****sigh****
Even whites have to prove they are white.
Just ask the Portuguese, italians, especially Sicilans and many other mediterranean folks.
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@Truthbetold & Bulanik
“Carlos Estevez has assimilated into the white culture so now whatever he does, it’s not really his fault”
&
Transformation complete.
Sheen personifies the ultimate manifestation of the American Dream.
Correct – though he still clearly is plagued by his demons which manifests in immoral, anti social downright appalling behaviour. It seems that for some, wholeheartedly embracing a ‘persona’ aint always what its cracked up to be …..
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@ Demerera
America loves its heros. Only to watch them fail.
White heros are to be pitied when they fall from grace. They make mistakes like any red blooded American…
Black heros, like Michael Vick, are born bad, evil, dysfunctional, can’t handle success and a drain on society.
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No… I am not Latino and I have no idea where that notion came from.
Sorry Sam… If I actually claimed what you have asserted then maybe you might have a point. But you don’t.
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@truthbetold
I had a quick look at Michael Vick as I am not familiar with him. I certainly see what you mean though but, saying that, the recent Leveson Inquiry in the UK has highlighted what depths the media will go to.
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Abagond:
This episode highlights a larger problem that we as black folk often overlook. We complain about whites like the two females in question, and at the same time, validate their point of view on the regular by thinking and acting as they claim us to be. Whites and other races view us thru our own lens. How we interact with them in person, what they see on tv and hear in music, magazines, etc. Black people deal with a lot of bs, because we allow other folk to come at us any kind of way..Real Talk! People that know me on a personal level, know that T is not the one for foolishness, and they act accordingly.
Tyrone
Black Eros
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Bulanik,
Loved that last video…it elegantly showed the brainwashing and intense “internal racism” that exists, it seems particularly bad with the Mexicans, who are walking reminders that history lied…the “Indians” did not all get wiped out by disease and murder.
I was waiting for the punch line in your first video but I guess the creator was actually serious about his delusions.
Yes, there are white (European descended) people from South America but no matter how many Gisele Budchens Brazil keeps trying to sell to the world as authentic South America…Adriana Lima is a truer representation.
Cristiano Ronaldo is one of my favorite football players…when pictures of his baby came out, the Portuguese/Spanish media were making a big deal about why his baby was so dark…they were all speculating that the baby’s mother must be black and on the internet, Ronaldo’s fans were like “Oh, no, Cris would never be with a black woman” …it was reported that Cristiano’s father is mixed race (parents from Cape Verde)…denial does not change reality.
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Bulanik—
The exceptions to allowing free speech are things like yelling fire in a crowded theater knowing that to be false. That doesn’t extend to political or social opinions which people find insulting or infuriating. They can walk away.
There isn’t a shot in hell that those girls rant was a crime in the US. It wasn’t even really hate speech. More like put down speech.
So called hate speech isn’t illegal in the US. It has to be accompanied by some other criminal action. Then thinks like assault when racially motivate become a hate crime with stiffer penalties.
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@ Doug1:
This is my final warning. I cannot babysit my blog 24/7. If you bring up IQ again on a non-IQ thread, I will ban you. That simple.
Most of my commenters, despite their supposed low intelligence and criminal tendencies, are able to follow my rules. So this should be a piece of cake for you.
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@Doug and other wannabe intellectuals
I challenge you to listen to facts for a change.
Read Slavery By Another Name or watch the movie by Douglas A. Blackmon
Then ask yourself Doug, genetics or propaganda?
Before the Convict System was put in place Blacks were seen as, hard workers, trustworthy, and loyal.
Then in order to justify the Convict System, and other atrocities society created new stereotypes for Blacks, criminals, animals, incapable of being civilized.
Today same story. New agendas for those who want to exploit, yet the same stereotypes exist that started from a time in history and remains 2012.
(jodee/jade)
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Can somebody answer this please looking back at history, and after I watched that profound Documentary Slavery By Another Name, I wonder why Black folks who were the victims of countless atrocities, and crimes (slavery, rape, kidnapping, chain gangs, jim crow, murders, lynchings etc.) throughout history why we are now seen as the “Bad Guys”, we carry the bad stereotypes, we wear the scarlet letter… Is this because we still live in the land of those who oppressed us? Why?
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@ Doug…
Nice to hear from you again, friend.
@ Jodee
Historically, blacks are made to APPEAR as the mirror images of our oppressors.
Whites raped our ancestors so we became rapists.
Whites stole Native land, hence the ‘Indian giver’ stereotype.
Whites committed crimes so we became criminals.
And so on…
This is not to say that blacks and other people of colour don’t ever do wrong, of course we do. All the time. But the scarlet letter was planted as a seed of deflection.
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” Most of my commenters, despite their supposed low intelligence and criminal tendencies, are able to follow my rules. So this should be a piece of cake for you.”
LOL!
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@ Truthbetold
I am a multi-generational mixed man and when my skin is untanned, it is WHITE, not even brown. I guarantee you, I am the lightest brother you will ever meet. Yet in America, still straight Black. Not that I mind, but isn’t it strange that our race changes as we move around the globe and experience the world. One really cannot comprehend the level of racial brainwashing that is done in this country until one actually travels abroad. That’s one reason I am not surprised by these two girls. I expect videos like this to crop up every so often.
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@ Truth & SomeGuy:
FG and Doug1 both say that in America the One Drop Rule is only applied by blacks, not by whites, not any more. What do you say about that?
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@ abagond
I have quite a few White friends and not only do they apply the label of Black to me, they constantly feel the need to REMIND me I’m Black, like I’d forget. I often feel that I don’t fit neatly into their racial paradigm, so the ones they are really reminding are themselves. This is with ALL of my White friends, without exception and it happen 99% of the time I see them.
A short anecdote: I have had this pen pal from Poland for about 15 years. I’ve sent her all types of photos and letter for many years. Race never came up until I mentioned that I was researching my slave ancestors in Virginia. She was completely surprised. She said to me, in all those years, she thought I was Middle Eastern or Turkish or something like that. I laughed.
That made me realize how different the mindset of Americans can be from the rest of the world.
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@ Abagond and Someguy
Doug is a lunatic.
The one drop rule was created by whites, for blacks, to remind us of our ‘place’.
I can relate with you, someguy.
My skin is more of the Thandie Newton/ Halle Berry hue so there’s no question of my African ancestry.
I used to have quite a few white friends, in fact. They began to slowly disappear from my life by my own doing a few years ago. Something that struck me as telling about whites is this:
1. When they become ‘comfortable’ with you, they make racist statements in front of you, about your people, and expect you to agree with them.
2. I’m constantly pestered as to why all black people behave/ talk/ dance/ dress
a certain way.
3. They appear uncomfortable by my accent. As if they don’t quite understand why I have it.
4. They do not understand that blacks range from milky white to jet black and EVERY shade in between with different hair texures, eye hues and facial features.
5. They are confused by my love of Frank Sinatra AND B.B. King.
6. They think all blacks come from Africa.
When I was little, my white friend used to ask me who that white man living in my house was. Ironically, none of my black and asian girlfriends were ever confused.
Someguy, traveling has taught me how backwards America truly is.
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@truthtobetold:
“Scientists gave us ‘ survival of the fittest’, no?
This isn’t totally true.
In order to survive, working together, as one entity, has ALWAYS been more reasonable for procreation. When birds fly together, they communicate by flapping their wings, signaling to each other where to go, how fast, etc.”
Actually and factually Charles Darwin never said anything like this nor meant it this way. All he said and proved was that those spieces that survive adapt. That goes for bacterias, weed, flies, bugs and ticks too.
It was the rich white elite that hijacked his theory of evolution and twisted it into what is now known as “social darwinism” which states that those who are rich are rich because they are fittest, that it is only natural for the strong to opress the weak and do what ever they want. Also at that time it was used as a proof for white superiority. It seems that these both are alive and doing well in USA still today and among the neo racist and nazis in Europe, though haven’t been in science for some decades at least.
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@ Sam
Really?
I learn something new everyday on this blog.
Thank you.
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@ sam
A part of me kind of likes the idea that weed adapts. 🙂
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Reblogged this on TJ's Place.
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How much black ancestry there is in Latin American countries varies widely with the country. Also there generally isn’t much in the upper classes, except maybe in the Dominican Republic (which is about 33-40% black, though most there think of themselves as Spanish, esp. if middle class and above), though even there less.
There’s quite a lot in Brazil, esp. in Bahia and the rest of the more tropical northeast, which was the main sugar cane growing region. There’s a lot in the Guyanas (a lot of S.Asian blood there too), on all the Caribbean islands even more, and a good bit in Venezuela and Colombia, esp. among the lower classes. More Amerindian blood in both the later countries though, and a lot of Spanish as well. Very little black ancestry south of Colombia along the S. American west coast. Very little to almost none in Argentina. Which btw is a good lot less white than that video above claims. They do think of themselves as white and have white, esp. Italian-Spanish culture, but there’s a good lot of AmerIndian blood mixed in with whites there too, genetic analysis has shown, I read at GNXP a while ago. There are very few self identifying Amerindians there though or especially lumpy ones. Seems to have been rather handsome and thin type AmerIndians there, that don’t make Argentineans look non Euro very much.
Mexicans apparently have about 10% black ancestry, which is by now very blended into the working classes mostly of Mexico. They were thick in the Veracruz area, brought in as slaves before Mexican independence. Probably not much black blood in the far south of the country, which is very AmerIndian.
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Linda–
Mexicans are taught in school that they are all part of “La Raza”, the (Mexican) race, which is blend of Spanish and mestizo. In America that translates into being “Hispanics”.
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@ Doug1
May I ask? What lineage are you?
Please don’t say American.
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Charlie Sheen gets away with what he does because he’s crazy, on drugs and self-destructing far as I know he hasn’t physically attacked anyone else or even randomly insulted some guy walking down the street and gone all “tiger blood” on him.
Charlie Sheen’s self-destruction is just that, directed at himself.
And one reason he’s more popular than Emilio I suspect is because Emilio got fat to be honest.
Of course that does beg the question, is it possible that on some small way a vague awareness of him not being pure is why that instead of being horrified at the sad end to a actor who had a decent amount of potential its a joke and something to laugh at instead?
Michael Vick; well he mistreated dogs and Anglo-Americans have a pretty big love for dogs, cats etc…..I don’t know if we are unique that way or what but it seems like some people love their pets more than their children.
As for the others; excepting for Roman Polanski were any of those ever proved or known for sure of?
It also doesn’t help that there are far as I know, no images of what they did to their victims showing how they brutalized them within like a few hours of the act itself.
Another thing to think about inregards to the whiteness of the Portugeuse, in Hawaii the Portugeuse aren’t seen as Ha’ole’s I believe.
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May I ask? What lineage are you?
Please don’t say American.
He’s from Uranus. One of Cthulu’s offspring to be exact.
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Abagond–
No, I say that it is primarily applied by blacks rather than whites. There are some whites that still want to apply it. But especially in the upper half I don’t think most do. They especially don’t when it’s a recent coupling that’s lead to a mixed race child, rather than hundreds of years old interracial coupling, leading to light skinned blacks mating with other light skinned or lighter skinned blacks, all very much within black racial/ethnic culture. Haley Berry’s kid by a white father, with her being only probably 40% or so of black genetic ancestry (given that her black father was on average 20% white), making the kid 80% white and 20% black, with her insisting the kid is unambiguously black, getting lots of white push back, being an example that’s been in the news and around the web.
The one drop rule was certainly initially created by whites in the south, as a rule to protect white “purity” and to discourage miscegenation, and probably also to keep the children of white masters and black slave girls slaves, at least at the option of the slave holder. No doubt about that. Times have changed. Black elites want the widest and smartest coalition they can manage, so they define black accordingly.
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truthbetold–
East Anglean Puritan (long time ago) English-Danish, plus lowland Scottish.
And you?
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@Bulanik
I’m going to be honest with you, Anglo-Americans as a whole kind of tend towards the “loud, superior way of expecting deference” at least pre-gen Y or whatever the current generation is called.
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I think the common American stereotype of Europe as racially harmonious and progressive has faded a great deal in the wake of the recent ethnically-/ religiously-based riots, assassinations, and terrorist attacks occurring there.
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“Doug1
Linda–
Mexicans are taught in school that they are all part of “La Raza”, the (Mexican) race, which is blend of Spanish and mestizo. In America that translates into being “Hispanics”.”
Linda says,
The mindset of “La Raza” is prevalent throughout Central and South America til this day. My “Spanish” neighbors had no shame in loudly moaning and groaning that their daughter was dating a “black” man (even though she is just a few shades lighter than me) and when she dumped him for a white boy, they only moaned because he didn’t speak spanish….
The Africans of Argentina and many southern South American countries were “bred” away and historically written away, interracial marriage / relationships were highly encouraged…if no census is taken, then no one can claim existence…this is what happened to indigineous of Dominican Republic.
http://ethiopia.limbo13.com/index.php/afroargentines/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/27/MNGH0FU3UG1.DTL
I watched a program by Henry Louis Gates called “Black in Latin America” about Mexico and Peru…it was very interesting.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/featured/full-episode-mexico-peru/227/
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@ doug
No, I say that it is primarily applied by blacks rather than whites. There are some whites that still want to apply it. But especially in the upper half I don’t think most do. They especially don’t when it’s a recent coupling that’s lead to a mixed race child, rather than hundreds of years old interracial coupling, leading to light skinned blacks mating with other light skinned or lighter skinned blacks, all very much within black racial/ethnic culture.
Well, here is the thing. You are really using the ODR here in your example. You are saying “light skinned Black”. If you go to the countries where the slaves originated, such as Angola, Camaroon, Congo, etc.) you are not going to find “light skinned Blacks” as defined in America. If they are light, then they are racially mixed. There are light skinned people in Africa. However, much, much less so in places such as Camaroon. I will concede that these American mixed people could be considered ethnically “African American”.
Haley Berry’s kid by a white father, with her being only probably 40% or so of black genetic ancestry (given that her black father was on average 20% white), making the kid 80% white and 20% black, with her insisting the kid is unambiguously black, getting lots of white push back, being an example that’s been in the news and around the web.
Due to the nature of DNA re-combination, no one can predict DNA percentages that we inherit from our ancestors. It’s random. Two mixed siblings can test completely different percentages.
Black elites want the widest and smartest coalition they can manage, so they define black accordingly.
?
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@ doug
Please see my aboved responses to Linda, abagond and someguy.
@ bulanik
White Americans are uncomfortable outside of American soil. They are perceived as an opposite of what they believe themselves to be.
White women, outside of America, are not put on a pedestal the way they are here. Beauty, skin colour, facial features and body types are judged differently overseas.
When I traveled for business and to visit family, it was not uncommon to see a French man of asian decent with his Ethopian wife and children. No one batted and eyelash. No one cared. Here, in America, depending on where they lived, they would be stared at, laughed at, shunned and ostracized.
The most shocking thing for most white Americans when they do venture abroad is that they are not number one. Outside of taking their money, foreign countries don’t care for most white Americans. Ego, attitude and entitlement are some of the complaints my friend and relatives listed as the source of their scorn.
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“I’ve spent 4 months of my life inside the US – and very generally – Americans can differ from other nationalities when abroad by the way they seem to be much more judging, fearful and tense – rather than curious. This is when they encounter non-white and non-American black people outside the US. These are white Americans I’m talking about of course!
Is it a bad thing for white Americans to feel ‘less white’ and more foreign away from home?
Many, though not all, it seems, feel the need to ‘pull rank’ for ‘white’ reasons, ”
***************************************
That American *attitude* you speak of reminds me of and is the thrust behind the 1958 book/1963 film, The Ugly American.
From Wikipedia:
In the novel, a Burmese journalist says “For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They’re loud and ostentatious.”
————————————————
Some things don’t change.
And some things do – like racist Americans who no longer isolate themselves socially.
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@ someguy
Why is DNA in mixed races always a hot topic?
Vin Diesel left America in pursuit of happiness. He claimed his casting agent didn’t know how to cast him.
What?
I wasn’t aware that he had to choose. Same with Dwayne Johnson.
I agree with your response to doug.
I have siblings that look like Wesley Snipes and Nicole Kidman.
They’re no telling what their kids will look like.
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In the novel, a Burmese journalist says “For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They’re loud and ostentatious.”
@ Matari
May I also add:
They expect you to adjust your feelings, beliefs and practices to them.
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@ truthbetold
I think the topic of mixed people is so complex that it’s hard to get in depth without seriously derailing this blog post.
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@Truthbetold
When they become ‘comfortable’ with you, they make racist statements in front of you, about your people, and expect you to agree with them.
That reminds me. I used to room with this white boy back in college. We used to watch TV together, and whenever he sees black people acting silly on a comedy he looks as me and says, “Will, you better control your people” and then laugh.
I said to myself, “No he didn’t! No this white boy didn’t!” I was offended and pissed off. I wanted to curse him out, but instead, I kept quiet.
One day though, I flipped the script and said the same thing to him whenever we see white people act silly. He laughed and told me “I’ll try.”
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Comment above is coming soon.
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“May I also add:
They expect you to adjust your feelings, beliefs and practices to them.”
****************************
As uncanny and strange as that is, it’s true. You’re expected to acquiesce, defer, adopt, adapt, nod – and even abandon your true self to that overwhelming, oppressive, restrictive, suffocating, soul stealing hellish nightmare that whiteness is – for many of us. It’s kinda like a Stephen King flick gone really, really bad. lol
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@brothawolf the way you used the term “white boy” in a demeaning manner is offensive to me. Just so you know. Practice what you preach fool.
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@truthtobetold:
Yes, Darwins theory of evolution is just one example about how the elite twists facts to its own purpoises. Always be very alert when some racist or socialdarwinist or guy from the elite says that there is a science that proofs their claims. Darwin never made the claim that man is the peak of evolution. According to him, a common dirt worm is as developed and evolved as humanbeing, if not more so. Good to remember.
@someguys: Yes, weed really does adapt. That is the biggest reason why medical cannabis is getting so much flak. It is well known that the big american pharmaseutical companies have been patenting differend canabis spieces. According to some information one company has patents for 83 different canabis types. The problem is this: weed is really a weed. It always evolves and develops so that the offsprings are no longer genetically the same as the previous mother plants. Ergo, the companies can not patent it and can not make money out of it because they can not lock it trough the patents. Thus it is in their interest to keep it illegal or drive it out from the markets via legistlation.
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@someguy: Just to make sure, I have never done it nor any other drugs, alchohol, not even beer. But I have no moral stand on this issue.
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@bulanik: This is so funny. Pretty soon people get upset being called as whites alltogether. Talk about fragile egos…
This is how it works over here: the official and PC name for gypsies is Romani, that is the roma people. Yes, they call themselves with that too. But the most common term and word they use about themselves without any negative connotation is Mustalainen, litterally Blackie or Darkie. That name, I assume, was given to them, when they first arrived into this country in 1600’s or so. It was a racist name of course. But now, it no longer has that meaning and they have taken it over to theirs. There are newer other racist names for them in use but Mustalainen is seen as neutral term.
They call all the others as Valkolainen, that is litterally Whitey. Nobody gets up set if a romani person calls others whiteys because that is their call name for us. So they make the distinction themselves by using terms “blackie” and “whitey” even when there is no physical difference between the two. They are no longer seen as racial defenitions but cultural defenitions. You hear often gypsies talk bout how the whiteys do this or that differently and it is true. But nobody in their right mind would get upset by that term used by a gypsie. That gypsie is just making the observation about who is a gypsy and who is not and what are the differences between them and us.
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Dave said to brothawolf:
“@brothawolf the way you used the term “white boy” in a demeaning manner is offensive to me. Just so you know. Practice what you preach fool.”
Dave,
What are you talking about? You are being too sensitive and need to stop imagining things.
Sound Familar?
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@ Doug1,
I dont even honestly understand why people give two flying figs what you say. What doesn’t it matter that you’re a racist. You ever act on it, you will be put in line, swiftly. So, you really can suffer on with your cruel and moronic points of view. That goes with the rest of the bigots on here. You can disappear and people won’t care. Will actually be happy. How does make you feel about yourself? Because it didnt have to be that way!
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@ Dave,
Why would “white” and “boy” be offensive. Being white is celebrated in mainstream society. And living in a paternalistic society, boys are much more likely to get paid exponentially higher than females. So where does your protest come from?
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@Sam
This is how it works over here: the official and PC name for gypsies is Romani, that is the roma people. Yes, they call themselves with that too. But the most common term and word they use about themselves without any negative connotation is Mustalainen, litterally Blackie or Darkie.
There is a programme currently showing called ‘My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding’ and one of they young girls featured in this programme, a girl about the same age as the girls this post relates to, said that she is often called a ‘Pikey’ which is a perjorative and derogatory name for someone of Gypsy descent. They call non gypsy folk gorgios. She likened this to being called a ‘Nigger’ or ‘Paki’, such is the level of negativity behind this word. She understood being discriminated against due to her ethnic/cultural heritage and how wrong and far reaching this will inevitably end up being for her in terms of how people have/will treat her.
To be honest, i’m not sure the programme brings down barriers particualrly, though it might dispell some myths (certainly not all). Its quite telling though, the difference in ‘awareness’ from teens from some backgrounds….
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@JT it’s the way HE used it. If you can’t understand that maybe it’s you who are closed minded. That’s the way I feel and that makes it true. If you want people to be sensitive towards your feelings then you should do the same.
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@bulanik I was apologetic towards you. Have you ever been an american white in a black neighborhood growing up. Unless you have you don’t know that that term can be used with hatred, bigotry, prejudice, malice, aggression, and I can name alot of others.
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Okay Dave. How about I call him an American Caucasian youth or an Anglo-Saxon American youth? Does that sound more pleasant to you?
Good friggin’ grief! All I did was say ‘white boy’ because he WAS white and WAS a boy! If you get offended by that, then you should be MORE than understanding if a grown black man gets offended if someone calls him a black BOY.
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I don’t see why Dave is offended by the term ‘white boy’. My old roommate was white and he was young enough to be considered a boy even though he’s at college.
There are no racist implications on the word ‘boy’ as it’s referred to young, adult, or even elderly white males. Black men of any age have been and are still referred to (to some extent) as boys by whites for many years. This word, like several others, robs black males of their since of worth and masculinity. It’s a way of saying that no matter how old you get, you will never be a man.
I’ve yet to see white men get offended the same way. Oh yeah! That’s right! White masculinity is revered in this society.
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I can’t tell if this idiot Doug1 is serious or if he is just trying to stir the pot. Either way it’s incredible how ignorant he sounds. You must have never been interested in any subject of science because you are obviously lacking the knowledge that we are all the same species and besides the phenotype of us were are all structurely the same. How does this at all make any phenotype more superior than another? So now let’s get into the history of the homo linage…since I saw you mention it early, our linage (your included!) dates back to Africa. You know the famous Salam or Lucy, the Afracanis? Please don’t add to our population, we need no more narrow minded fools.
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@ Dave
I have heard “white boy” used as a slur both online and off, but in this particular case I doubt Brothawolf meant it that way – especially since calling the person in question a “white man” would have seemed kind of strange. People talk about “college KIDS” because most students are still dependent on their parents and so are not fully grown.
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@ Janea
Doug1 is not a troll. I know that because he talks pretty much the same way on white “race realist” blogs too. He is being completely serious. If anything he is trying to be nice about it here.
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ok abagond i’ll concede the argument then. and honestly I really wasn’t offended, but I think when it is used a certain way in CAN be offensive. Some people were making it like it’s a play on words. I really was trying to make a point.
I’ve said it many times, what these girls did was racist, childish, foolish, absurd, and very offensive. All I’m saying don’t fight fire with fire if it’s not justified. Didn’t they get expelled?
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Really It’s kind of like when your brother gives you a holier than thou attitude because he is the goody goody….then when you catch him messing up you want to point it out. “Hey look who messed up now.” Like when you said I roomed with a white boy…….that’s fine. But when you said “No this white boy didn’t” It has a deeper meaning and you and I both know that. It was pretty harmless though. It’s not like you were like….”Ha ha ha… look at the corny dumb geeky white boy” which would have more racist agendas. But I read between the lines and kind of felt your dislike for his race rather than his character…..Maybe I assumed too much.
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Thought you guys might appreciate this:
http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=37
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^ The point is this whole “nigger” issue is overblown (I hate that word). It was a joke in poor taste, but White people like to use it (amongst other things) to slander us.
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^^ I too noticed that Cameron Diaz plays down her heritage. As does Carlos Estevez, Raquel Welch, Linda Carter and…a shocker, Mitt Romney!
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@ Bulanik
With regard to celebrities playing down their heritage, hasnt this been the understanding for those who want to be identified as ‘white’ in the U.S for years?
All these celebrities mentioned and more make subtle or overt changes to discard their true racial/ethnic identities. Those who cant do it that easily are portrayed as racially ambiguous i.e. Prince, Mariah Carey. It is embraced and supported by the powers that be and links in directly to a statement on the post Black people according to the 1911 Britannica and in particular, the comment relating to mulattos where it states
“the qualities which have made them leaders are derived certainly in part and perhaps mainly from their white ancestry.”
I sense that this mentality is still prevalant in the US and I dont think it’s just WP that think that it either. Some BP think this too but their feelings about it differ from the positive i.e. aspiring to it themselves to the negative i.e. rejecting anybody who does not fit certain criteria.
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@Bulanik
Why are so many people amazed that a white cuban female would talk smack about black people? I read some of the other posts, and noticed that a lot of folk are debating the identity of one of the girls in the video. So, white spaniards are not white anymore? The hispanic/latino nonsense needs to stop. There is no latino race to speak of. Racism is just as pervasive in spanish culture as it is in american, european, and arab culture. White spaniards can’t talk s**t about other white folk when they’re just as bad or worse when it comes to black folk. A lot of black americans only focus on what takes place in the US, we forget that there are other blacks on this planet who have it tough just like we do. Black folk need to realize that white folk are white folk. I’ve witnessed too much crap from the “other” white folk to fall into the trap of seeing them as colorized white people. Spaniards have done more harm to the black race than any other group of whites on this planet. We throw stones at the british and french, but give the worst offenders(spaniards) a pass because they’ve brainwashed a sizeable number of black people on this planet to see them as the noble slavemaster, which is bulls**t. I see white spaniards from cuba and other countries with negras and mullatas all the time, yet, there are no blackwomen in spanish media to speak of. Who’s the sucker in the relationship? White cubans and others don’t hide their racism in relation to spanish blacks and american blacks, but they have no problem jumping in and out of bed with the same group of blacks they discriminate against. If black people want to see what white racism really looks like, study the spanish and portugese. Great post Bulanik!!!
Tyrone
Black Eros
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@ Bulanik
Alexis Bledel
Kris Humphries
Carly Simon
Pete Wentz
Slash the Musician
Carol Channing
Vin Deisel
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Just some things:
1. Anyone notice how people care more about the right for these idiots to spout their ill informed hatred than the feelings of the people they are talking about? Especially since the “Sh*t that White Girls Say” video had so much flak from white people for just repeating what white people have actually said to that person? It seems as if the humanity of the girls are always recognized, but the humanity of the people they’re hurting with their words are actions are always ignored or passed over. These discussions always seem to go that way, in the end everyone is obsessing over the girls and their right to say what they did, but no one seems to ask about how the black students at their school felt?
2. I’ve noticed that there seems to be a lot of the “White Savior” mentality with certain people here. There’s this “Oh, poor little “white” girls, lets defend them at all cost because those mean darkies don’t like dealing with yet another racial faux pas! It doesn’t matter how they are hurt from dealing with this crap, or how those other students felt, all that matters is that we save those TWO special snowflakes!”
3. This might be slightly off topic, but does anyone notice how these white supremacists seem to have generated these comic book style origin stories to excuse why they’re racist? It usually starts with them being “liberal” people who love all colors, who are woken in the dead of the night by a generic black man (or ten, or one hundred) who points a gun at them or beats them up and suddenly they are imbued with racist superpowers. The worst thing about it is that these same people tell black people they can’t dislike white people no matter how they are treated. i wonder why its okay for them to be racist due to some black guy chewing them out or beating them up once, but a black person can’t dislike white people for any of the crap they’ve pulled within the last 40-50 years!
4. On the South America topic, my father served in South America during his military career, and there’s a stigma against any black heritage that you can visibly see. In many places, there’s this “if your hair is kinky, you are black”, so it was easy to “pass” for the most part if you had long, wavy or straight hair, even if you didn’t necessarily have light skin. Someone actually wanted to start a fight with my father because he said he had black heritage and he was a high ranking officer. The South American men just didn’t want to believe a man in charge of them, with blond hair, lightly tanned skin and green eyes had any black decent. They thought they knew better than he did!
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@ Ace
Excellent point.
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“The worst thing about it is that these same people tell black people they can’t dislike white people no matter how they are treated. i wonder why its okay for them to be racist due to some black guy chewing them out or beating them up once, but a black person can’t dislike white people for any of the crap they’ve pulled within the last 40-50 years!”
As near as I can tell it they seem to think that while they are most definitely individuals, Blacks most definitely are not.
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@ Ace
Excellent points.
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@ Ace
This is know as the White Trait.
Only their thoughts, feelings and opinions are of any value.
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@ Abagond,
Thanks, I hope I’m more tolerable now than I was when I first started posting.
@ Parfum Bleu,
I’ve noticed that. That’s why videos like that are particularly harmful. Those girls, like many white kids, don’t always realize (beyond a subconcious level) that their whiteness allows them to have a certain amount of power. This is the first time I’ve ever seen people punish people like that appropriately instead of just making excuses for them. Usually that power allows them to say things that are genuinely hurtful and have their words and opinions valued enough that people will support them.
@ DarqBeauty,
Thanks!
@ Truthbetold,
Yeah, even if their opinions are unfounded, unproven and just plain offensive. The youngest, most ignorant white girls and their limited experience are valued more than a black adult.
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@ Bulanik
Expect more and more. As white power dwindles, the fear and hatred will rise.
I often wonder what will be the zenith of white racism?
Civil war 2?
Or how about WW3?
Or maybe they won’t be happy til the streets run red.
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@Bulanik
The other privilege of whiteness she is using is the ability to shift meaning:
Therefore if ‘everyone is racist’, then no-one is ever racist, which means no Australian Aborigine or any PoC actually experience racism.
In a nutshell – excellent point 🙂
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Damn…I used to think it was a generational thing…but something is teaching younger and younger kids to be as racist as people were 50 years ago.
I don’t know which is scarier: That these people actually really think this way, or that they have been taught such a warped version of their history and identity that to them, people of color deserve that treatment.
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@Ace. In my opinion, racism will NEVER go away unless society is destroyed completely and rebirthed. Racism is “handed down” through generation after generation. You would the the person would decide between right and wrong, but it doesnt happen that way.
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^ I meant to say, “You would think the person would decide between right and wrong.”
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@ Phoenix
I often question religion and morality with racism. It would seem that the two shouldn’t go hand in hand, no? This is maddening.
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@ truthtbetold
Aren’t all things that fall under a DEMONIC heading/category/label – especially racism/white supremacy – maddening or insane??
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@truthtbetold…you too ?! I always wondered why did(do) white (others) people always talk about christianity and how they love to state that slavery is in the bible. I mean so many questions, not enough answers
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Until at least the 1920s Christian religion was THE main support of racism in America. The Curse of Ham and all that. It was the way God meant it to be – for black people to serve white people for EVER:
Of course not everyone agreed with that reading of the Bible, not even all white people. Churches were split not just by race but over the slavery issue too.
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@abagond. Thanks, I love your blog!!!
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@ Abagond
Not to derail this post…
But if the bible speaks of slavery and the Curse of Ham, why is Jesus portrayed as Germanic? The bible states that he had hair of wool and feet of brass. There are also passages in the bible that speaks of ‘showing colour in the face’ and dark , swarthy peoples of Israel.
Americans seem to accept this image of Christ as ‘one of them’ when the actual description states otherwise.
Am I mad for thinking this?
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@ Truthbetold
No you are not. I notice that too.
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Bulanik:
There’s an analogy here to the “two girls” video. What begins as a reasonable premise: “racial epithet spewing person offends people” then overreaches into a peculiar type of racial activism.
What I believe you’re implying is that a white person cannot and must not EVER object to actions taken by “PoC”. After all, the whites committed genocides and other crimes!
Therefore, any and all offenses against them must be tolerated with stoicism and humility, in perpetuity.
That to me sounds like a short-sighted and unsustainable premise upon which to attempt to build a civil society that expects its members to treat one another with decency and respect.
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@ Randy
Whites can object any action taken by people of colour. That’s not what we’re trying to say at all. We object to other coloureds when they say dumb things, make dumb mistakes and speak openly about it.
We object to racism based on the notion of superiority. These two girls made a racist video based on popluar opinion of a group of people she knows nothing about. They , along with many whites, generalize blacks as being the root cause of their own problems and thusly, the cause of white problems.
That notion is absurd. And racist. So we object to it. If it were any other person of any colour who made a racist video, we’d voice our opinion too.
You are twisting our words because you simply do not want to understand.
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truthbetold:
I think you’ve articulated the crux of the debate. Buried in your statement are two apparent premises which I don’t believe have been proved:
1. A white person inherently knows nothing about PoC, even if they live, work, or are otherwise in close proximity.
2. A PoC is never (a critical distinction) the cause of their own problems, and thus are inherently beyond criticism by a white person. They all have no agency, and are simply at the mercy of larger forces.
If point #2 wasn’t widely held, then more effort would be made to determine to what degree their criticisms might have factual basis. Except for Abagond, I didn’t read where anyone even attempted this.
In other words, almost all of you know without any further investigation that not only is their language inflammatory (a point I’d completely agree with), but that they are factually wrong.
As stated up-thread, my own supposition is that had the same video been recorded without the disparaging epithets, the reaction would be much the same, simply because of the 2 premises I’ve stated above.
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I can flip that quote around and apply it just as easily to the average White person.
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@ someguy
Randy argues for the sake of it. He enjoys the banter. He wants nothing out of us and this blog except to prove his awesome debating skills.
My 10 year old nephew does it.
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truthbetold,
Way to dismiss arguments which you happen to disagree with. Far easier than actually addressing the points being raised.
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@ Randy
You have no points. You have a Dexter-ish like way of looking at things.
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@Randy
Truthbetold says:-These two girls made a racist video based on popluar opinion of a group of people she knows nothing about. They ,along with many whites, generalize blacks as being the root cause of their own problems and thusly, the cause of white problems.
I think you’ve articulated the crux of the debate. Buried in your statement are two apparent premises which I don’t believe have been proved:
1. A white person inherently knows nothing about PoC, even if they live, work, or are otherwise in close proximity.
You are living proof of this with your ‘the jurys out’ approach to commenting. If work or are in close proximity with a POC then yes, in the former instance i.e. work you know about THAT particular person in that particular environment. It is also true that if you live or are in close proximity with a POC then you will know that person more intimately. This does NOT extend to ALL people of colour who are of course individuals.
2. A PoC is never (a critical distinction) the cause of their own problems, and thus are inherently beyond criticism by a white person. They all have no agency, and are simply at the mercy of larger forces.
Look at the word in bold in the statement you responded to (above). See the difference between this and your response? Yours encompasses ALL black people. In your world there seems to be NO distinctions though you try to maintain that your responses a so called balanced and objective opinion. What do you know, Randy does have some depth after all!
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Demerera: said
I actually agree with you.
The problem with that statement as it relates to this situation is that the girls were referring to characterizations of their schoolmates who are black, not all black people in general.
So they were, in fact, referring to a group who they have frequent contact with. But re-read the comments. Except for Abagond’s criticism, there’s little mentioned in the way of “Their statements about their black classmates are factually incorrect.”
Some, like JT, even deny that any black people could be like that. Apparently, he and others have met every black person who exists, and can authoritatively assert that none of them could match the description given by those girls. (Just to be clear, I’m not excusing their insulting language, we’re only talking about the general content)
Demerera:
This point is related to the previous one. It’s obvious that few people who are criticizing those girls have met all the black people who the girls go to school with.
Therefore, if they object to how the girls are characterizing black people at their school, they must be objecting to criticism of black people in general, because they don’t know the black classmates personally.
Now take Bulanik’s comments on Ellen Musk who made disparaging comments about some aboriginal neighbors. I’m guessing that Bulanik hasn’t met these people personally. However, she can still claim that criticism of them constitutes “consolidating the hegemony of Whiteness.”
So you see, it’s not me stereotyping people by race. Instead, I’m objecting to it.
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I know what these kids did was wrong. I also know in their deranged head they had some “other side of the coin” mentality that justified it. Maybe there were “some” kids in their school that were mean to them so they fired back. The problem with that is there is only a few bad apples in the black race and the rest of black people seem to take the brunt of that. You can turn that around though, how many of these videos can you find on both sides that is ignorant towards the other race with hatred. It goes both ways.
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by the way “Dawson” was dead wrong. He used the kids version as an excuse. He was punished. However who is that kid to tell the camera that the guy should be fired for good. Nowadays the insults go both ways with equal hatred and hurt. If you want him fired, or the two girls expelled for good you are opening a can of worms that will eventually be fired back at you. The government wants this it’s a way to destroy our freedom of speech and the civil rights movement is being used as a tool to do so.
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but when I went to school the teachers had more rights then the students, they didn’t need to walk on eggshells around punks, maybe this kid was a school hero, but I guarantee other kids would use this phenomenon to their advantage.
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@ Bulanik,
Wow. exactly.
If these were all white girls using their “free speech”, they’d be a lot better off. It’s telling that the people arguing for their “rights” seem to only think that applies as long as people are being bigots. Everyone else better hope that they don’t bring the wrong lunch to school.
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@ Dave,
I see what you are saying but…
No child is going to be happy with being called racist things just so they can “take advantage”, despite the satire of the Boondocks.
The only people abusing the “freedom of speech” are people like those girls who thinks it excuses any sort of asshattery, bullying, or bigotry they can come up with. It’s always said by people who defend that behavior that the “civil rights movement” is being used by the government to mess with our freedom of speech (like everyone is supposed to be okay with people calling them n***** because it’s “free speech”) but it’s far too easy to care very little about the rights of the people being insulted. THAT goes both ways. If people like those girls want the law to protect their hate speech when it’s convenient then everyone else gets to use the law to deter that.
And any teacher who can’t teach without being a bigot or having to personally insult a student to get their point across shouldn’t be teaching. Children should be able to learn in an environment where they don’t feel like their skin color or their birthplace determines how safe (physically or mentally) they will be.
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@Randy
So you see, it’s not me stereotyping people by race. Instead, I’m objecting to it.
If this is your intention then you certainly seem to take a circuitous, covert route towards expressing this. Read the responses to your comments and i’m sure you will see what I am saying about what I have nicknamed your ‘juries out’ approach to commenting.
The only time when I have clearly seen you being transparent in terms of ‘objecting’ to anything, is when you have been likened to Doug1!!
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@ Bulanik,
Ah sorry, that’s my game/net-speak coming through. “Asshattery” pretty much describes actions committed by people with their heads up their own butts. These actions are often rude, stupid, or ones you would typically associate with trolls.
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@ Bulanik,
(I forgot to edit the profanity…)
I’m sorry I meant to add:
I’ve heard it pronounced like a**-hat-erie
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Demerera said
My desire is to think and express opinions using the most rational, objective, and scientific methods as I’m capable of, given the time allotted to such activity. When I’m offering a “jury’s out” perspective, I mean exactly that, and am not simply attempting to hide behind a smoke-screen to obfuscate a more cynical belief.
With regards to explicitly distinguishing my opinions compared to Doug1’s, that’s a circumstance where it seems as though reasonable persons might not observe the actual difference.
On a side note: one commenter expressed dismay that we’d be engaging in “debate” about issues raised on this blog. I’d argue that if we desire to ground our culture on the bedrock of reason, then debate is not just an essential tool, it’s the only tool we have to discover, explore, and come to a consensus about fundamental truths.
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@ Randy
No. You just consistently attempt to create smoke screens, by cherry picking a small aspect of the main point of an article, while presenting that as the main issue. A smoke screen that you use for the sole purpose of masking the greater point; which IS to point out cynical white beliefs or cynical white practices. You’re actually one of the most dishonest white people on this blog, since you attempt to rationalize and be an apologist for white problems. With the exception of the most indefensibly blatant ones, like someone expressing clear hatred towards blacks or calling for negro genocide.
This is what you do “in general”, btw. Not something that I’m accusing you of doing right now, in this particular thread.
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Guys can I say something here?
Most whites are burdened, not by us, per se, but by themselves. Everyone knows that the United States, especially the South, has a stain that will never be erased. Katrina is something that other countries will use against us, forever, that we can’t even take care of our own people, because they are black. And, make no mistake about it, Bush will NEVER live it down.
Has anyone ever thought what that does to the white mind? The guilt, the shame of knowing that your race continues to be the reason for another persons demise?
I think about this constantly.
Constantly.
Are whites aware of their situation in America?
Most articles speak of the black race and its problems with poverty, the war on drugs, etc…
What about the white man’s problem in modern day Brown America?
Does he realize what that means for him?
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Ehhh… I’m not watching the video, but I don’t mind what those girls said judging from the quotes you posted. I’m black, and any sane person would hate blacks who act like the people they described. I for one can’t stand’em.
But at least they made a distinction… Everybody thinks it anyway, you’d have to be a dumbass to not notice it. Nobody except “niggas” and wannabe “niggas” likes “niggas”….
I’m not defending these chicks, they should not have said all that shit but at the same time, there’s truth to some of it… Don’t act like there isn’t…
Maybe if blacks weren’t so fucking fucked up, there wouldn’t be so much racism against them… I know you may not want to look at it that way, but the statistics don’t lie.
Why aren’t Asians looked down upon for being lousy gang bangers with nothing to contribute? Because, generally speaking, that just isn’t really the case. You want to complain about the stereotypes that portray blacks as violent, but the black crime rates don’t help at all…
(no racist)
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@ Big Boss,
Your “black” but you call black people “them” further down, repeat typical white racist arguments, etc? Either you are really self hating or a white guy with no sense and too much time on his hands.
They didn’t make a “distinction”, not truly. Just like the fact that the school wasn’t anywhere near 60 percent black like they claimed. They wanted to be racist without any consequences so they added the typical failsafes bigots do; i.e. some of you are okay but the rest of you are just horrible, or we have so many of you people that we know how you are!
Blacks are NOT screwed up, and the statistics do, that is why people question them all the time. White people, according to REAL research and not racist circle jerking, commit the same amount of crimes but are arrested and publicized less for doing them. There’s racism against them because there’s a system that relies on it, or else there would be no racism at all. It didn’t suddenly start happening in the last decade you know.
And asians DO face racism, very often. Like black people, the majority of asians face it despite contributing to this country, and I’m not just talking about the Japanese or whoever you like to make a model minority when you want to justify the racism other groups deal with.
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Womp womp wommmp! Your pronouns gave you away Big Boss! Is it just me or was that post supposed to be of a “reasonable” tone but quickly spiraled into a hate filled rant? lol
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Franklin:
It’s regrettable that you would make such an assertion. If there’s a central theme running through my commentary, it’s that a fair society cannot be built on double-standards.
As a corollary, you cannot correct yesterday’s double-standards by creating new ones today with an opposite orientation.
Thus, in the case of the popular reaction to the video made by these girls, I’m attempting to point out where these are presenting.
You might disagree with the goals or the execution of this discovery process, but dishonest it’s not.
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Randy
You’d feel so much better if you’d just quit the false intelligence angle and just say it.
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@ Randy
Which double standards are you talking about? Please be explicit.
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@Ace now that point was an ace, and you trumped me. I know when I’m beat
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but be aware I have some aces up my sleeve
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@ Randy
Oh please…
Cut the crap. The central theme of your comments are exactly as stated, and such behavior has been pointed out of numerous times in the past. I’d love to see you seriously own up to the white problems that are outlined on this blog, which are the driving force behind racism in America. And for once don’t try to casually hand wave them away through eloquently expressed Strawmen, Cherry Picking, and Red Herrings.
The problem (which I’ve noticed over the years with you) is that your entire approach revolves around you creating your own intentional misinterpretations of what we say, and use that interpretation to engage in this deranged version of “The Devil’s Advocate”. In this particular instance (your last comment) you try and equate black racism with that of racism from a white. All to act as if you’re honestly interested in coming to a solution of a major problem “by tackling one of two equal issues that will cause racism to fizzle.” Never mentioning the more harmful double standards that whites engage in. No matter which wacky interpretation and method you use, that’s what it always comes back to with you. Which is why I call you an apologist. You’re not upfront with it (because that would be too obvious) so you do it in a roundabout way.
Like I said earlier….
Dishonest
White
Poster.
DWP! Abagond! Coin that acronym for future use!
Oh…and again. If you’re trying to equate the effects of racist double standards of whites with those of blacks, then you are comparing a mountain to a mole-hill. Abagond did a post about that already, as well.
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Abagond:
The obvious double standard being applied is that the girls appear to be the target of racist comments themselves, some potentially violent, but there is no repudiation of these. Rather, we can even read the implicit suggestion that they’ll deserve what comes to them.
Additionally, there’s quite a few fallacious arguments on offer, particularly the implications that all black people are the targets of these comments, and that it’s categorically impossible that any people matching the described stereotypes can possibly exist.
The implication of the latter is that any such criticism, even those devoid of rude and inflammatory language, are necessarily the products of racism.
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@ Randy
The knife cuts both ways.
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Franklin:
I believe that those who inveigh against racism have a particular moral duty to not practice it themselves, lest they be guilty of hypocrisy.
“But white racism is worse!” you say.
That line of thinking implies that what’s objectionable is not racism itself, but a lack of parity in its effects. This is a utterly different argument from the former.
Now let’s move from the theoretical to the practical.
Franklin:
The common anti-racist narrative suggests that the bulk of the race problem lies with white people either practicing racism or else allowing it to propagate unchecked.
Let us accept this premise for the moment on face value. The challenge is then to alert and mobilize all these whites and to change their biases and practices, which despite all previous efforts, have remained intractably unenlightened.
You’re therefore working with body of people who by definition will be highly resistant to change. I offer that you cannot possibly achieve success with that goal unless your own arguments and practices are resolutely devoid of the very biases which your yourself claim are at the heart of the problem.
For example, if your cause is anti-thievery, you cannot successfully execute your campaign while committing thievery yourself, nor can you offer the moral argument that the poor stealing from the rich isn’t as bad as the other way ’round.
The rich whose entrenched interests you wish to challenge will rightly call you out on your hypocrisy, and furthermore discount the entire movement with the reasonable suggestion that your concern is not for the morality of thieving at all, but rather that your group happened to reap fewer benefits from it.
In other words, from a purely operational standpoint, moral and ethical purity in these matters is absolutely essential.
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@Randy
Where to begin:
Except the latter half of that first sentence is what I was arguing, and the former half wasn’t I said or remotely implied at all. Which means that (this time) you only doled out half of a “Randy Red Herring” and as a result made that entire paragraph irrelevant, because you only ended up repeating what I had originally stated. Such a feeble attempt at a distraction on your part.
And they (the anti-racists) are correct.
You advocating (clearly) that one must stop the fight against white racism, whenever there is an example of black racism popping up is not only a handy and convenient cop-out for you, but is the equivalent of saying:
“Crap! You’re on fire! Stop drop and roll! But first…tie your shoes so you don’t trip and break your neck.”
The argue as if the two as a whole are equal, is a failing argument. Your approach implies that every white is just as short-sighted and is just as easily distracted from the big picture as you are. (That’s me for simplicity’s sake, saying that you’re actually honest. Which you aren’t, as I’ve demonstrated time and time again. But moving on.) This short-sightedness is not the case, as there are plenty of anti-racist whites who are WELL aware of black racism against them, but still know that the racism from their own is far more detrimental to society. Which is why they focus on that. “Cutting off the snake’s head”, so to speak.
And you can’t compare “stealing something” to racism. That was you attempting to water down the latter by comparing it to the former, with a bad analogy that doesn’t fit. I can sit here and point out your dishonesty by accurately dismantling your arguments all day. You’re getting progressively worse and worse at this.
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Bah! Somehow I messed up with the quotes. Abagond, can you fit it?
“And they (the anti-racists) are correct.” shouldn’t be a quote and nor should the paragraphs after the two in quotation marks be a quote either.
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@ Franklin
Is it correct now?
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@randy:
“The common anti-racist narrative suggests that the bulk of the race problem lies with white people either practicing racism or else allowing it to propagate unchecked.”
It is not a suggestion. It is a fact of life, particulary in USA. The white americans are brainwashed into it every day since the moment they are born. It is in the very culture. It takes an effort to get rid of all that cultural brainwashing and most white americans do not even realise they have been brainwashed. You might be one of them, though I think you know very well what is going on.
Now you imply that there is a black racism towards the whites (one of the most favorite debate tools of white “commentators”). Is there such? Yes, there are such phenomenas BUT they are very much out on the extreme and are not part the anti-racist movement. Usually those guys do not approve guys like abagond or the others on this blog for that very reason.
But heres the thing: where from you think that those extreme guys get their ideas?? Yeap. Their ideology is an reflection of the white ideology on the whole. Those very few blacks (and believe me, they are very few) who advocate racial purity and segregation etc. are recycling the very same ideas that the white majority has been saying and promoting since the day American colonies were founded. It is not like in the day One there was two groups of racists who agreed to hate each other with gusto and then went on. No. Black racial extremism was born out the white racism, it is the child of white racism. Without the white american racism as model there wouldn’t have been so called “black racism”.
Black racism towards the whites is a very young and very small phenomena which, of course, the white anti anti-racists try to pull over everything else. Even though it is a small and very insignificant phenomena, guys like you use it as a paint to smear the whole anti-racist movement with it, as if it was the same at all. And you do not even accept the fact that it is just an reflection and part of American racism on the whole. Very telling too.
Also guys like you very much like to make outbursts of frustration and stress as evindence of the “white hating” in black communities. The reason is, just like in the clumsy “black racists” argument, that white racists try to make it look like racial hate is a natural state of humanbeing. White racist will bring up any incidents and statements out of context and show them around as proofs of black racism towards whites. White americans will say and do anything that would make the america racism look like a natural order of things.
And yet, despite of all that propaganda, despite all the “evidence” of black hate towards the whites, I, for one, was able to walk on the streets of Harlem NYC without any problems. I was able to sit down in a sandwich shop and eat there without any troubles. I was able to go into stores, walk along the very same streets that I was warned not to go to just few blocks south by white newyorkers. How this was possible if the blacks hate whites all the time? Why I, absolutely white guy, was able to wander aimlessly on the streets of Harlem back in the late 80’s during the huge crack crime wave and gun toting gangs and what ever?
Could it be, that even during those days, when it was really dangerous in some areas, a white guy like me presented no threat to those blacks in Harlem and therefore they had no need to attack me, lynch me, burn me etc.? Could it be that the blacks did not hate all the whites after all, even when they had all the reasons for it?? Could it be that the black racial hate towards the whites is just a part of the racist mythology of the white America? I think so.
I met lot of black americans during my time in USA and once, just once, had any trouble with any black person because of my skln color. Once. I lived in States couple times and once my skin color became an issue. Even then I think it was just an excuse for that guy to let out some steam. If I had not been there, he would have lashed out against some other black dude sooner or later.
What these girls reveal, what they really tell to everybody, is that white racism of USA is alive. They tell all of us that this racism has not gone anywhere, that it lives on, and it must stopped. Granted, girls might have been stupid and young and so on, but that does not take away the fact that they revealed the racism in them and around them. That is the whole point. That is not “a suggestion.” That is fact.
Sorry about the lenght of this rambling.
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@ Abagond
Thanks a lot.
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@ Randy
I’ve come to the conclusion you don’t really read much of what commentators, as well as Abagond, post here. I think it shows clearly in most of your responses. However, I don’t believe I am alone in beginning to pick up or spot this. You really are portraying yourself as one of those types of white people not really interested in learning anything in these commentary exchanges.
And its not simply about holding an alternative or non-PC point of view. I for one wouldn’t question that. What I do question is your refusal to take on board or dismiss genuine evidential claims by commentators here. simply because it interferes or gets in the way of with your obviously tightly held racist beliefs. Which you, as it has been pointed many times, disingenuously try to hide.
Lets offer one example which illustrates my charge of you unwilling and/or not interested in learning anything here:
“…The common anti-racist narrative suggests that the bulk of the race problem lies with white people either practicing racism or else allowing it to propagate unchecked.
Let us accept this premise for the moment on face value. The challenge is then to alert and mobilize all these whites and to change their biases and practices, which despite all previous efforts, have remained intractably unenlightened.
You’re therefore working with body of people who by definition will be highly resistant to change. I offer that you cannot possibly achieve success with that goal unless your own arguments and practices are resolutely devoid of the very biases which your yourself claim are at the heart of the problem.
For example, if your cause is anti-thievery, you cannot successfully execute your campaign while committing thievery yourself, nor can you offer the moral argument that the poor stealing from the rich isn’t as bad as the other way ’round.
The rich whose entrenched interests you wish to challenge will rightly call you out on your hypocrisy, and furthermore discount the entire movement with the reasonable suggestion that your concern is not for the morality of thieving at all, but rather that your group happened to reap fewer benefits from it…”
This is disingenuous because you are comparing “Black racism” to “white racism” using the analogy of stealing to show how it is hypocritical and morally and ethically questionable. However, a quick review of Abagonds post Franklin quoted above shows this very argument to be critically flawed!
Further…If you even took the time to review Sam’s comments you would find a white commentator who vehemently disagrees with your uncritical thinking based on beliefs overwritten by his own direct and personal experience:
And here I could agree with Sam:
“…No. Black racial extremism was born out the white racism, it is the child of white racism. Without the white american racism as model there wouldn’t have been so called “black racism…”
But, I would add. There is no need for Racism unless you believe there is a need for inequalities between peoples to continue to exist. Most Black or POC have no real need of this.
So… Randy I wonder why is it you are still unable to assimilate or learn from this type of information despite your many years of visiting and commentating on this blog?
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@ Kwamla
I’ve been saying this about Randy for months. It’s one of two things. Either he has a very bad memory, or he just deliberately reuses his past arguments and disregards entire counter arguments that have deflated his logic. As if it never happened, was all really just an unpleasant figment of his imagination.
Of course…I’m being facetious here, and it’s really number 2.
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Franklin:
No, I’m stating that the specific people who are actively advocating against one form of racism should not themselves be practicing another form. That’s different from saying, “you shouldn’t comment on white racism if there is black racism going on elsewhere”.
Franklin:
I think it fits from the standpoint of how we advocate for moral standards. The common antipathy towards hypocrites in a variety of contexts speaks to the aversion people have towards those who say one thing but do another.
An anti-racist, to be credible, has to advocate against all racism. Similarly, a prohibitionist to be credible has to advocate against all alcohol, even if hard liquor can be demonstrated to have worse effects on society than beer.
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sam:
If only that were so. Where was the outrage against the racist comments and threats of violence received by the two girls in that video? That’s just one example of double-standards which can be found in the sphere of anti-racism even in the microcosm of this blog.
sam:
You’re an obviously well-read and well-traveled person with a monstrous depth of historical knowledge. I find it rather discordant to hear you express such fairy-tale thinking when it comes to discussions of the nature of racism.
The idea that “racism” has a unique and couldn’t-have-happened-otherwise ontology separate from that of all other tribalisms strains credulity. One can find such tribalisms in nearly every society in nearly every era at nearly every depth-of-field that you might wish to look.
Had the particular historical events in American history which you reference not occurred, there’s every reason to believe that tribalism, particularly of the ethnic variety, would still exist, as it currently exists all over the world. Where I’ve lived, an Italian kid walking through an Irish neighborhood was at risk of harassment or even a beating.
sam:
There’s nearly too much terrible logic in that passage to unpack in one sitting. For one thing, “anecdote” does not equal “data”. Also, when one is describing risk, one speaks in terms of probability, not that such an event will occur each time.
Whether or not racial animosity existed in Harlem in the 80’s is not informed by the fact that you went there once and didn’t experience it.
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@Randy
Where was the outrage against the racist comments and threats of violence received by the two girls in that video? That’s just one example of double-standards which can be found in the sphere of anti-racism even in the microcosm of this blog.
The focus primarily was on the wrong doing of the girls and the whys and wherefores as to what could possibly have prompted such stupid comments and the fact that they made the decision to post it on the world wide web.
One of my early points is that the parents should be held to account for negligence. Whilst I KNOW from my own experience it is difficult to monitor (and a flippin pain too) adolescents use of the web, a precedent should have been set and those parent should be monitoring and questioning the childrens usage continuously.
Did anyone condone the threats of violence Randy? I dont think anyone on here did. It is to be acknowledged though that threats of violence towards minors is tough to justify however, this post is NOT about what happened to the girls in response to their ridiculous you tube video, it is about what compelled the two girls to do such a thing in the first place.
There are no double standards being expressed here Randy except yours. The video is what it is – two ridiculously stupid ill informed girls who, not content with having a ‘moment’ in their own bedrooms, wanted to share it with the world. As with many young adolescents, they had no comprehension of the repercussions of their actions and are currently facing a horrid and harsh lesson no doubt with their parents also feeling the brunt of this.
As has been frequently stated by many of the commenters on here previously I cant help but find you extremely disingenuous in terms of what you maintain is your purpose for posting compared with your actual comments which, certainly in this instance, belies your real motivation for posting.
There’s a saying you know Randy, you always know where you are with a thief but you never know where you are with a liar. I have found that there is much truth in this statement in my time!
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Kwamla:
I don’t believe that very many recent discussions have hinged on issues of observation or evidence, rather they’ve been about rhetorical matters (which are no less important).
Also, you apparent desire to prove underlying racism is not going to succeed despite your frequent prestidigitation.
Kwamla:
I didn’t ignore or fail to consider the post about the difference between black / white racism, rather I’m arguing that when advocating moral positions, it doesn’t particularly matter.
In other words, if an action or belief is morally wrong, then it’s wrong across space and time, regardless of who is up and who is down.
Therefore the “which is worse” discussion isn’t germane to the broader debate, because the thing itself in all forms great or small is morally wrong.
Kwamla:
As stated in my previous reply to sam, I believe that “racism” is one particular expression of the broader taxonomy of human tribalism, and is not it’s own ontologically independent form of moral evil or what have you.
Kwamla:
I happen to disagree with some of these points of view, and believe that I’m offering fair and reasonable rebuttals to them. That’s not to suggest that you ought to automatically assume my point of view, but you should perhaps consider that such arguments are genuinely proffered.
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@Randy
I think it’s strange how you claim to not be racist, however you NEVER call out, shun, or dismantle the white racist arguments that are brought into attention on this blog. If anything, you seem to defend white racism against blacks. Do you not see how this may cause many commenters to recognize you as a white racist?
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I for one can’t stand’em.
This is another common racist saying, this time coming from a self-loathing black man! I have heard this type of statement made in the ‘real world’ to my face by whites. “There are black people and then there are the ni^^gers”! You will always get the self-loathing, terrified negro chirp up in support of this statement to support the whites and show ‘they aren’t like those n__gers, “the whites are alluding to.
As for comparing racialized people based upon white perceptions and ‘statistics’, here’s an ongoing series of articles on how they(police), ‘card’ black men in ‘high risk’ neighbourhoods in Toronto. They stop these black men randomly, and ask for i.d. and personal information. This ‘information’ goes into a databank for investigatory purposes should it be needed. Since you can’t tell who the ni__gers are from the ‘black’ men, everyone is stopped. Should a black man be in a predominately ‘white'(middle to upper-class) neighbourhood, his chances of being stopped by cops rises a hundred fold. Again, the cops cannot tell the ni__gers from the ‘black’ men, they stop them anyway. Small consolation that eh?
A link to the series:
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/1143563–known-to-police-violent-crime-in-weston-mt-dennis-is-down-youth-feel-harassed-by-toronto-police
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It’s regrettable that you would make such an assertion.
It isn’t regrettable, it’s true!
As a corollary, you cannot correct yesterday’s double-standards by creating new ones today with an opposite orientation.
Why not? Payback is a beyotch!
Let us accept this premise for the moment on face value.
No, let’s toss a coin, same outcome!
you cannot successfully execute your campaign while committing thievery yourself,
Why not? Politicians do it all the time. Some get caught and some don’t. A poor analogy.
In other words, from a purely operational standpoint, moral and ethical purity in these matters is absolutely essential.
Very convenient. Unless blacks are perfect, they cannot throw stones? They can be discriminated systemically against? That’s like saying to a victim of sexual assault;”You shouldn’t have dressed that way, this wouldn’t have happened”!
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– Randy said:
“Where was the outrage against the racist comments and threats of violence received by the two girls in that video?”
*********************
Where is YOUR OUTRAGE Randy, against the racism (killing, murder, torture, theft, burning, bombing, injustice, banishment, mistreatment, oppression, discrimination, imprisonment and so on) that’s been continually directed at black people since we were brought here in chains??
You are far beyond being merely disingenuous. You are the most incredulous hypocrite I’ve seen on this site. You might fool yourself into believing that you are not a stone cold racist – just as the naked Emperor was himself fooled.
Nonetheless your bogus arguments, skilled use of language and feats of twisted logic and reasoning isn’t fooling anyone else.
We see through all of your racist machinations.
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Cynic,
If you look up-thread you’ll read that I decried the use of pejoratives and inflammatory language in that video, and that were they my kids I’d tan their hides.
But I also think there’s room for, and a need for, nuanced analysis of the reaction to the video. I asked for people to share what specific elements they objected to (outside of the aforementioned pejoratives).
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@ Randy,
Why don’t we turn the question back to you:
What parts of the video do you find inoffensive? (outside of the aforementioned pejoratives).
I wouldn’t be surprised if you said the whole video.
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Also, you apparent desire to prove underlying racism is not going to succeed despite your frequent prestidigitation.
If anyone is resorting to conjuring tricks, it is you Randy.
I’m arguing that when advocating moral positions, it doesn’t particularly matter
You are well and truly f___ed if you cannot see the difference. There is a huge difference systemically between the two. There is a huge difference between personal prejudice and systemic racism which can impact your education, health, job prospects,where you can or cannot live etc, than to disliking a group based upon their perceived racial differences, positive or negative.
Therefore the “which is worse” discussion isn’t germane to the broader debate, because the thing itself in all forms great or small is morally wrong.
You love convenience don’t you? You can’t even argue straight. Verbosity and bombastic ‘rhetoric’ is seen through, don’t delude yourself into thinking otherwise.
As stated in my previous reply to sam, I believe that “racism” is one particular expression of the broader taxonomy of human tribalism, and is not it’s own ontologically independent form of moral evil or what have you.
In other words;” I am a racist, albeit in a abstruse manner. Let the negras figure it out. In the meantime I will have them jumping through hoops doing so. Keep them running in circles for my own pleasure”!
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I can’t believe that we’re still arguing about this video!
What is there to argue about? Two young, white girls thought it was acceptable to make a racist, excuse me, an obviously racist video, and we are against it!
Now, whites are coming here and defending their right to the First Amendment!
Do you know how crazy this is? This isn’t about free speech, it’s about hatred, pure and simple. I simply cannot believe the comments here from the white population excusing this behaviour.
What’s next? Excusing the KKK for giving motivational speeches about the extermination of Jews? Or perhaps how Birth of a Nation should’ve won the Oscar?
I’m constantly rocked sideways at the level of white prejudice.
I really want to laugh at the visceral reaction of hate but I know it’s not funny.
You know what saddens me?
That America has not, nor will it ever, change.
Political correctness has made the white population angry. It FORCED them to remain silent on their true natures so the rage come out on this blog and many others like it.
Blacks and other coloureds had nothing to lose in society so we speak freely, despite the discomfort the white America. Another reason for the insane jealously, they want our freedom.
Listen, I don’t know how you feel but there are days when I want to scream at the top of my lungs at the absurdity, the rage, the pain and the sorrow that this will be all for naught.
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@Randy
I see you conveniently ignored (big surprise!) where I mentioned how this was not only faulty thinking, but was actually irrelevant to those successful anti-racists who operate outside of your own personal set of rules. Personal rules that you blurt out as if they are the universal ones.
While this was already countered in not only my previous paragraph, but my previous post, I thought that I should point out how funny that sounds coming from you. Someone who is a staunch follower of HBD, and it’s proven questionable method of doing “science”. Which isn’t the same scientific method that all other scientists engage in, since they ignore or flat out diminish conflicting evidence. Which is coincidental because you demonstrated your own habit of ignoring facts that conflict with your own theories, with my last post.
Glass houses, stones, desire to throw them. Yadda…yadda…yadda.
Now not to fight Sam’s battle for him, but it’s funny to me that you would try and “venture into new waters with someone else” by blatantly misinterpreting what they said in order to make a nice talking point. After I gave precise examples of that dishonest tactic of yours, you completely ignored it and continued to do it with someone else. You are so scripted that it’s both hilarious and frustrating at the same time.
@ The Cynic
I mentioned earlier how Randy only calls out the blatant and indefensible examples of white racism, while he generally considers less extreme (i.e. less violent) and more eloquently spoken examples as being “practically accurate” or at the very least “possibly valid”.
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JT:
I rarely get offended at people speaking their minds, regardless of my opinion of the content, so I’m probably a poor test case for your thought experiment.
But specifically, I generally find it inoffensive for people to complain about others, as it seems a useful and necessary outlet in society where social frictions are inevitable. Also, I generally find it inoffensive to notice that certain characteristics may be common to specific subgroups, even if those characteristics don’t define the subgroup.
Let me offer an example:
Say this video was made by 2 asian girls complaining about hillbilly whites at their school who chew tobacco and don’t appear to value education, as evidenced by poor graduation rates and an expressed belief that country music and NASCAR represent viable post-high school career options.
Just on this blog (in this experiment) you’d have a number of outraged commenters complaining that not all white people are like that and you yourself implying that no white people ever fit that stereotype. Others would say that merely noticing that people with these characteristics are white is racist all by itself.
Personally, it wouldn’t bother me much.
I know that some white people are like that, so without further investigation who am I to assume that there isn’t a body of white folks at that school who match that stereotype?
Also, I find it absurd that JT (you) would suggest that no white people ever fit that description, and that anyone who thinks so is deluded and racist.
Finally, it’s a bit Orwellian that one should be compelled to deny that tobacco chewing, country music, and NASCAR aren’t ever traits seen among white people.
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Franklin:
My statement was that you cannot crusade against a moral wrong while practicing it yourself without being a hypocrite. Please offer any counterexample to this.
Franklin:
You must be thinking of someone else. That is not my position on the subject, nor my attitude towards science.
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@Randy
I’m not defending these girls at all. If they were my kids I’d tan their hides.
So, on one level, you understand that they did something wrong hence the first comment about spanking them – i’m curious to know WHAT you would be punishing them for here i.e. breaking trust/boundaries, profanity, the use of perjorative language? As a parent would you feel that you have to take some responsibility for their behaviour and how it has manifested itself?
Where was the outrage against the racist comments and threats of violence received by the two girls in that video? That’s just one example of double-standards which can be found in the sphere of anti-racism even in the microcosm of this blog.
Nobody condoned violence against these girls. In fact, you are one of the few people on here advocating violence in the form of punishment though as queried above, I would be interested in what you were actually punishing them for.
Though a sad indictment of society in certain parts of the world, it appears that it is not only the likes of you that has seemingly become desensitized to certain terrible things. As you know, going waaaaayyy back threats of violence towards young people/adolescents were extremely common place and worst of all, there was often little or NO protection for what inevitably became the victim.
I’m sure you are familiar with Emmett Till who was the SAME age as these girls when that ‘so called’ incident happened which resulted in him being killed by 2 grown men. There are more current examples of this too, which perhaps other commenters can direct you too though I am sure you are aware of this anyway.
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@randy:
“You’re an obviously well-read and well-traveled person with a monstrous depth of historical knowledge. I find it rather discordant to hear you express such fairy-tale thinking when it comes to discussions of the nature of racism.”
Well, I am talking about racism, not tribalism. They are not the same thing, contrary what you claim. Just look at the brittish football hooligans: they go at each other DESPITE what color they happen to be. So called race does not mean a didi for them, but what club you happen to support. And this is modern tribalism at its most naked.
So tribalism is not racism and does not exist solely between the races, but cultural groups REGARDLESS of the ethnicity.
“Whether or not racial animosity existed in Harlem in the 80′s is not informed by the fact that you went there once and didn’t experience it.”
Ok. Lets add Minneapolis and couple smaller towns in the soup and expand the the time frame from 80’s to early 90’s. The same thing. I was not mugged, robber nor attacked because of my race. That is weird considering that you KNOW that this anti-white racial hate exist among the blacks almost naturally. Few year all together in USA, walking and talking among the blacks and zero muggings for this white guy. How that can be?
How the heck I survived in the worst neighbourhood of Lagos? Well, the same guys I was told were going to eat alive me took me under their protection. Notice: these guys were as black as humanly is possible and they were bad, really bad. They were gunslinging criminals. I have no idea why they decided to save me but they did. Looking back I took a real risk there but… Did those black african gangsters kill me? No.
It did not happen in Kenya either. Nor in any other African country.
If you are so convinced that there is a natural racial hatred between the various racial groups, why an earth I survived?
If black americans hate whites just because it is part of the human nature, why on earth I had black friends over there?
Could it be that the hatered is not natural but learned? Could it be that growing in a racist society one learns racist behavior? And before you start talking about ethnic clensing and such, think about this. during Bosnian war they killed each other just because others used cyrilic letters and were christians and others used european alphabet and were moslims. Or catholics killed orthodox christians and the other way around. But they all spoke the same language and looked a like, belonged to the same race. White europeans. And they hated each other, really hated.
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One of the girls made a faux-pology video while giving the old “innocent white girl tears” routine. See for yourself:
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@ Brothawolf,
Cue to the white people saying “Aw its okay!”
They always “don’t think” and they always are surprised that people “get hurt” from it…I mean, who thought black people were “people” people?
Bullcrap. If she were sorry, she would’ve never thought that was okay to say or be a part of it in the first place.
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@ Randy,
And sure you would be (unphazed by people complaining about others). You and your people haven’t been influenced by the stereotypical and hateful ideas these girls purport. There are no implications for you. You get to turn off the youtube video and feel morally superior (however slimly) to these girls.
The fact of the matter is you are alienated from the implications of their thinking and the practical expression of their words.
Why else would you not give an ish?
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I love the trembling lip, the quavering voice and not directly looking at the camera!
Meryl Streep beware!
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@Ace,
They always “don’t think” and they always are surprised that people “get hurt” from it…I mean, who thought black people were “people” people?
That’s funny because I said something like that in my blog comments. I said:
By her so-called logic, she apparently didn’t think that black people were people and that they could get hurt by such comments.
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@Ace
They always “don’t think” and they always are surprised that people “get hurt” from it…I mean, who thought black people were “people” people?
Bullcrap. If she were sorry, she would’ve never thought that was okay to say or be a part of it in the first place.
Honestly, i’m not condoning their behaviour at all. But this is just it, teens often dont ‘think’ about the repercussions of their behaviour and strike out in their befuddled and sometimes confused but always ’emotive’ way to make maximum impact.
Hormones are flying everywhere and there can often be reckless and irresponsible behaviour as a result. In fact for many, it is a time of regression – almost as if they are rebelling against becoming a fully fledged adult.
It is both unfortunate and doubtul that these teens will truly ‘learn’ why their actions are truly unnaceptable.
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Demerera:
Were they my kids, I’d impress upon them that the video is extremely disrespectful and unbecoming of the type of people that they and I know that they’re capable of being.
Also, the use of such language demeans the speaker as much or more than those spoken about.
Demerera:
Probably not much, as it’s not likely that they’d have found acceptance for such an endeavor in their raising. Also, I’m not of the opinion that adolescents should be infantalized, and removed from bearing accountability for their actions.
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@bulanik: 😀 “I did not mean it. I’m really a good person…”
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@ Bulanik,
I mean…who knew? I thought they were more like pets.
@ Demera,
I get what your saying, but it that hate has to come from somewhere, whether it’s jealousy, bad parenting, or just stupidity. And with all of the technology and knowledge at their fingertips (along with them seeing black people every day) they should know better than to say and do what they did. Why are they always so “surprised” when they get caught, but are so cocky about it when they’re doing it?
@ Brothawolf,
Yeah, you did. You made that point better than I did.
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sam:
I’ve never claimed that anti-racial hate has to exist among black people. Rather, I contend that tribalism is normative to human societies, and that racism one of many common forms of it.
Let me re-purpose your logic to demonstrate how flawed it is: “Soccer hooliganism doesn’t exist because I went to 10 matches and never saw a single fight or instance of vandalism.”
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Bulanik,
That something is normative for the species doesn’t imply that it’s desirable or acceptable according to a society’s social contract.
Violence is normative as well, but we have laws generally proscribing it.
“Tribalism” as I’m calling it, is the generic parent of racism, classism, clannism, caste-ism, sectarianism, etc.
Feel free to offer a preferred term for substitution.
The tendency for humans to form in-groups and out-groups can be found everywhere you find people and in a vast array of forms.
I know you want “racism” to be a magically special snowflake of an “-ism”, so unlike any other that it cannot (and may not) be analyzed in the broader context of in-grouping and out-grouping, but I don’t see any compelling evidence for it.
One can travel the world and find villages where the people fear and despise those in the next village. Some of the most violent manifestations of tribalism occur in sectarian contexts such as between Sunnis and Shias, Catholics and Protestants, religions which are minimally divergent.
The required amount of “difference” needed to create and sustain a tribalistic response appears to be extremely minimal.
Given a comprehensive understanding of human organizational tendencies, one ought to be shocked for racism to NOT exist, as you generally have differences which extend well beyond the minimums needed for tribalistic division.
I’m not offering a value judgement here, but rather am making an observational point. One can fully accept that racism is normative but still be opposed to it. You’re not condoning racism by acknowledging its nature as an organic outgrowth of human tribalistic tendencies.
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@Randy
Were they my kids, I’d impress upon them that the video is extremely disrespectful and unbecoming of the type of people that they and I know that they’re capable of being.
Also, the use of such language demeans the speaker as much or more than those spoken about.
You’re overall concern is then, how they have presented themselves? Not what they were saying or why they felt justified in making these comments, not just amongst themselves but to the world at large?
In terms of taking ownership of things, I disagree here Randy, it does and will invevitably reflect on the parent. In the home, you can insist and instill in adolescents the need to ‘take responsibility’ for their actions however, you are the official guardian of said child until such age as the state determines and you cant just throw your hands up and say ‘its your fault, you deal with it’ in terms of the repercussions of widespread actions such as this even if you think it might ‘teach them a lesson’.
You ‘dance’ well Randy, you’ve ‘shimmied’ and ‘shuffled’ around this response better than any pro I can tell you!
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@Bulanik
As usual these are excellent points and probably the best thorough and detailed breakdown of Randy’s pseudo-intellectual babble and nonsense so far!
Further as you’ve correctly highlighted Randy for the umpteenth time has dodged, ignored and completely disregarded Demerera’s initial important questions to him concerning the behavior of the two teens.
Lol!!! This really is becoming laughable now!
Randy. Do you honestly think when you skip penetrating questions like this that no one notices ?
Or do you just believe if you ignore or pretend they never existed – like Racism – they just magically disappear or go away?
What are you afraid of addressing and confronting that possibly lies deep within soul? You don’t strike me as a very reflective type of person at all. Maybe, perhaps, this is why you find it easier than most commentators here to identify with these two white teens…Just a thought….
By the way. …Even though you may well respond back here. I am not expecting you to fully address any of my comments (or others) here. That would be too Un-Randy like!
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Wow these White girls are pathetic and racist! I am a Black teenage girl and I would love to hear these stupid White bigoted girls say these things right in my face and I would tell them right off! I say one of their videos and I was like, wow! I don’t live far from these racist bigots and wow, they all look like the White girls I see at school! And I wonder if Whites disliked us so much why are they always talking about us and wanting to be like us? Hm……something is fishy. Something is not right!
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Demerera:
I mentioned that I thought the video was disrespectful. Perhaps I should have clarified that to mean “disrespectful in form and content towards their fellow students.” I hope you find that response to be clear and unambiguous.
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Bulanik:
I’m not saying that the term “racism” is without meaning or utility, but rather that it should considered in the broader context of bring one of many types of tribalism. Failing to make that connection leads to faulty ontological conclusions. Let me offer an analogy and an example.
First an analogy: imagine someone posing the question, “Why do we have Pomeranians?” Can the answer to that question be complete without an understanding that Pomerianians are a subset of dogs, and a consideration of the origin of dogs?
Now an example: A common anecdote within “anti-racism” discussions is the idea that “racism” isn’t organic to the species, but rather is a social pathology which has to be taught. Sometimes this premise is illustrated by the image of little white children and little black children playing together happily.
That’s a quaint but fallacious proposition.
Instead, by considering “racism” to be a subset of tribalism, and understanding the tendency towards tribalism being endemic among humans, we arrive at a different, and I believe more accurate conclusion that there’s no reason why racism shouldn’t arise, particularly considering that people divide themselves up into in-groups and out-groups over far more trivial differences, such which of two neighboring villages you live in, or which religious sub-sub-sect you belong to.
Take a moment to consider that in the preceding paragraph I’m neither condoning racism nor am I suggesting that it’s inevitable. You perhaps might summarize the idea as being something like, “one shouldn’t be surprised for it to occur”.
Bulanik:
I think that’s an excellent question. What we’re doing here is creating models. Better models offer explanations of causative factors as well as fitting the historical evidence.
If you’re saying, “you’re attempting to use rational explanations as way to hide the fact that you’re racist without the courage to admit being such” then I’m sorry but I cannot agree.
Bulanik:
Apparently, in the contexts you mention, that term denotes idealized or valued concepts. Thus, I’ve been using it incorrectly to mean “common, endemic”.
Bulanik:
I’m not doing that, and have specifically disclaimed that “natural” does not imply “acceptable” or “inevitable”, specifically regarding areas where a society’s social contract limits natural behavior. The tendency for humans to resort to violence to resolve disputes and societies’ general restrictions of it is an example of this.
Bulanik:
I don’t think that the desire is misunderstand racism is limited to one ethnic group or another. Rather, I believe that there is probably a multiplicity of causes, partly borne of the neo-marxist (in the philosophical sense, not economic sense) tradition which has infected the academic classes and infested institutions of higher learning.
I use the term “neo-marxist” to denote the general principle of the infinite plasticity of the mind of man. The gist being that humans do not have hardware-based predispositions, but rather fully customizable software if only the proper inducements and punishments can be applied.
It’s a lovely but errant idea. You can see the wheels of thought turning in academia. “Social pathologies like racism? They ONLY exist because people have wrong beliefs. Luckily for you, we’re here with the motivation and capacity to change the minds of men and society. Just give us enough power and we’ll deliver utopia in a jiffy!”
Of course, that’s never worked. I believe a more effective strategy is to acknowledge the endemic tendency towards human tribalism, and structure society to minimize the social pathologies created by this tendency.
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@randy:
“Now an example: A common anecdote within “anti-racism” discussions is the idea that “racism” isn’t organic to the species, but rather is a social pathology which has to be taught. Sometimes this premise is illustrated by the image of little white children and little black children playing together happily.
That’s a quaint but fallacious proposition.”
What do you mean? That white kids, who have never seen a black kid, will start to burn crosses and lynch the black kid at once they seem one? You are implying it, claiming it and that, my friend, is ridicilous racist poop.
Racism is learned. You have to live in an enviroment which feed it to you from the moment you are born. You see it before you can speak. You hear is from the day one. That is how it becomes part of you, just like it is part of your thinking. It is so overwhelming in USA that you can not even realise it. You think it is natural, biological, in genes and cells of the man. That is how deep the racism is in you: you feel it is natural, normal condition.
Are kids curious if they a black person first time? Yes, if they haven’t seen one from the get go. They wonder about it. Just like when they see the first police man, a clown, fire fighter, old person, disabled person, red haired one, person with eye glasses (I have witnessed this many many times) etc. That is how children learn. BUT!!!!!:
Do they think immediately when they see a black person first time: “that black person is a threat to me, alien to me, another race, and Oh, I hate him for that!”??
Do children immediately get violent when they see a black person? According to you, they do. I do not believe that nor does science.
Racism is not natural, biological. It is learned behavior, it is an ideology. Just like facism, nazism, capitalism, communism etc. It has nothing to do with the biology of the Man. It has every thing to do with the culture YOU live in.
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@randy;
“”Luckily for you, we’re here with the motivation and capacity to change the minds of men and society.”
Of course, that’s never worked.”
You mean the nazis were not defeated? They still support Hitler in Germany? Russia is still communist? France and Germany are still at war? The people will never change? You mean they still throw prisoners for lions to eat publicly in Rome, Italy? Wow! I did not know that!!
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sam:
I’m not claiming any such thing. Your comment is hyperbolic and absurd.
I’ve stated numerous times that the propensity for humans to create in-groups and out-groups is pervasive, but that doesn’t imply that all potential tribalistic formations will happen in every occasion.
If you can’t understand this nuanced concept, then I’m not sure we have any rhetorical ground to debate on.
sam:
That straw man is quite dead, so there’s no reason to keep flogging it. Again, I’ve not made any such suggestion. Please reread my first response to you.
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@Bulanik & Kwamla
Bulanik, I see you have reiterated my questions to Randy but as yet he has not responded.
Kwamla said: Randy. Do you honestly think when you skip penetrating questions like this that no one notices ?
Kwamla, surely someone as ‘worldly’ and opinionated as Randy is not playing dodgems is he? I guess we will see whether he deigns to respond to Bulaniks questions at all. Though I suspect he may feel a little overwhelmed and needs take time out to compose the methodical and carefully constructed responses we have come to know him for….
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@ Randy
Randy where is your evidence for this? Its purely your own belief!
Racism is an artificial construct and its easy for anyone to see how your above statement testifies to this fact simply by observing children at play.
You do this time and time again offering your opinion which we should all believe because it came out of your unbiased mouth!
Thats a silly and non-nonsensical position to adopt. Are you really happy for that to represent you?
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@ Demerera,
As you can see he is still at it again with Sam. He really does believe no one notices it! Amazing!
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Demerera,
If you scroll up you’ll see that I expanded upon my earlier discussion with you, and answered about two pages of Bulanik’s questions.
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Kwamla:
I can falsify your premise with ease.
Name any social pathology, and I’ll bet that you can assemble a group of children who don’t engage in it.
Sexual abuse? Substance addiction? Economic exploitation? Criminal recidivism? Clannism? Sectarianism? Classism?
If that isn’t enough, and it should be, here’s an absurdist version:
“The food chain is a purely social construct. Look at the tiger cubs and antelope foals playing together in harmony!”
The “children don’t do it” analogy is terrible and you should stop using it.
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@Randy
I dont know how to link to previous comments in posts but these are the questions i was referring to:-
Bulanik said:
Randy,
Demerera said this, regarding de-sensitization:
“..As you know, going waaaaayyy back threats of violence towards young people/adolescents were extremely common place and worst of all, there was often little or NO protection for what inevitably became the victim.
I’m sure you are familiar with Emmett Till who was the SAME age as these girls when that ‘so called’ incident happened which resulted in him being killed by 2 grown men….”
What do you think of this parallel?
What do you feel about this parallel?
When we talk about this ‘incident’ is it the stuff of snow-flake manufacture?
Why do you think it resonates with people who think it was an example of racism?
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@ Randy
Apart from the obvious fact you have a backlog of questions which commentators, just like myself, keep repeatedly asking you I think there is a clear communication problem here.
There are a number of suggestions I could make to enhance or make this easier but the simplest would be to define in simple terms any statements or propositions you make. A clue that this might be a problem comes when you find commentators repeatedly asking you to re-answer questions you previously thought you’d already answered.
Its apparent assumptions are being made on both sides which is why I make the suggestion of defining those assumptions in simple terms as we go along.
Unfortunately, to date Randy this is a practice you are woefully guilt of making every time you comment.
So in your last response to me:
You clearly believe this falsifies the claim of racism not being an artificial construct. But you neglect to explain in simple terms How? or Why? it does.
These are the assumptions you do not make clear I am referring to. Its far to easy to create the impression that you do not wish to be understood. Particularly when dealing with a contentious subject such as racism.
So perhaps Randy you would like to try again making the assumptions behind your response clear and explicit rather than vague and implicit.
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@truthbetold
Political Correctness contributes to the problem, it does nothing to fix “It.” Racial conflict between blacks and non-blacks is still a major issue on this planet because folk don’t speak their peace. Not getting ish off your chest increases the level of anger and frustration. This is why i despise bleeding hearts who insult everybodys’ intelligence. Keeping anger inside is not good. I want folk to know where i stand at all times.
Tyrone
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Kwamla:
Let’s proceed simply, as per your suggestion.
Humans show a great proclivity for forming in-groups and out-groups. You can easily see expressions of this in nearly every culture throughout history.
Consider how little the minimum “difference” needs to be in order to create and sustain these groups, even ones which commit great violence against one another. You have groups based upon clan, tribe, nationality, culture, gender, professional affiliation, religion, sect, caste, wealth, etc.
Just to cite a few contemporaneous examples, you’ll find the willingness to kill out-group children (surely a powerful measure of the capacity for inter-group enmity) among Catholics-Protestants, Hutus-Tutsis, and Shia-Sunnis.
In other words, the amount of “difference” needed for people to commit great violence against an out-group is terrifyingly minimal. Surely the bar for out-group expressions of animus which fall short of violence (such name calling, job discrimination, etc) is much less.
With racism, you have potential group differences which well exceed the minimal differences which humankind has demonstrated time and again is sufficient for out-group distinction and dislike.
If Catholics and Protestants in Belfast are willing to kill each other’s children, surely you can’t be surprised that distinct population groups of different ethnicity, heritage, history, culture, language, or religion sharing a particular space might resort to name calling and worse. Add in genuine historical grievances and the bar lowers further.
Keep in mind I’m not suggesting that it’s desirable or inevitable. Rather, that humans are hardwired with a predilection for such activity. When viewed with a broad historical lens, group-formation based upon race appears to be completely unsurprising.
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@randy:
And so, in your opinion, racism is natural and biological and there fore acceptable and unvoidable?
White grown ups can kill black children because it is only understandable? There is nothing wrong with that since it is only humannature, just like breathing and eating, yes? You are saying this.
C’mon! Are you really convincing yourself? And really, you do believe that you have no will at all? That you are just a brainless mucuss which does only what its biology orders it to do?
I mean that is what you try to push trough: killing of a black child is only natural since humanbeings are naturally racist and therefore there is nothing wrong when mr Zimmerman shoots a black kid dead and we should not be be angry about it. Right?
Following your logic it is only natural for grown up men to rape children since, hey, they are just doing what comes naturally for them!! That is how many pedophiles defend their actions. They can not help it because it comes naturally. You must agree with them since they follow your logic and use the same arguments!
If I kill your child tomorrow you should just accept that since it is only natural and biological, according to you. Right? No? Why not? You have been saying that all the time: it is only natural to kill your child with whom I have no close connection. Nothing wrong with that, according to you, since it is only biological state of humanbeings.
Really Randy? You really advocate that? You really believe so? You think it is ok to murder children? You think it is normal?
If you do, I really feel sorry for you.
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sam,
Once again you’ve killed a straw man and mutilated the corpse.
I’ve disclaimed repeatedly that the endemic nature of “groupism” in human societies (of which racism is a taxonomic member) does not make it acceptable or inevitable.
Either you’re hampered in reading comprehension because English isn’t your mother tongue, or you’re cognitively impaired. I’ll grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.
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@ I am intrigued Bulanik. Please share…?
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Demerera:
Any decent-minded person ought to appreciate that we as a culture are less tolerant towards violence than in the past.
As for the parallels here, I think it shows that strongly held racialist feelings are still held among all population groups in the US. Fortunately, less violence appears to result.
Let me suggest a nuanced point. I do think that race does play a role here. My criticism of the criticism of the video was that people’s expressed outrage seemed to have little to do with the accuracy of the content of the video.
Rather it took the form of, “White kids criticized black kids? RACISM!”. I don’t think you can comprehensively arrive at that conclusion with just the information presented.
In my counterexample about asian kids making a video criticizing white students for being tobacco-spitting hillbillies with disdain for education, I think I’d need to know accurate the allegations were before rendering an opinion about how racist it was.
For those who don’t care for attempts at nuance, please skip the preceding paragraph.
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Is it a coincidence, but how come it is the ‘European’ or Europe-based commenters examining this question with Randy?
I have a little theory of my own.
Any thoughts?
@ Bulanik,
I know I wasn’t asked but i am going to hypothesize to your question:
I believe it is because Europeans are possibly less used to the discourse style that is populated throughout North America.
They lack the experience with civil conflict to perfectly frank. They are the place where World War II happened, not the Civil War.
They never had their Civil Rights Act of 1964. I mean they did (in their own little European way) but it wasn’t the event that it was and remains to be in the USA.
That is my theory.
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Bulanik:
I’m saying the tendency towards racism and other groupisms is normal, not that the manifestations of it are inevitable. That concept serves to rebut the notion of Kwamla and others that racism only exists because it’s taught.
That’s like saying domestic violence only exists because it’s taught. Sorry, but people have violent tendencies. Nobody needs to be taught to be violent. You can encourage people to express more violence with bad teaching and less violence with good teaching, but that’s a different argument from what is being suggested.
Bulanik:
That’s not what I’m suggesting. I’m saying that if you’re looking at an oak tree and wondering why the leaves are green and why they fall in autumn, you won’t gain a complete understanding without considering that oak trees are a subset of deciduous trees and further a subset of chlorophyll producing plants. Any serious study of oak trees cannot ignore this relationship.
Bulanik:
I believe there’s an evolutionary biology case to be made for the whole taxonomy of common human characteristics, but I’m not attempting that here. Rather, I’m using empirical evidence of groupisms being found in every culture and every age in a staggeringly diverse number of dimensions.
Bulanik:
Again, I haven’t made a Evo Bio argument, but I would suggest that the cure for bad science isn’t less science, it’s better science.
Bulanik:
You misunderstood that comment at the time, and you misunderstand it now. I don’t ever advocate for violence either online or offline.
The point about Simo Häyhä was that 2 generations ago, Finns went to heroic lengths to preserve their sovereignty and values, and that now they appear to be inviting people into their country who hold views and values far more antithetical to themselves than did the Russians.
Bulanik:
All dogmas are a cancer, be they political, social, religious, or what have you. The converse of reason is dogma.
Marxism (used in the generic sense) is by nature dogmatic. It has to be, as the foundation suffers from the scientifically fallacious premise that the soul of humanity is infinitely malleable.
Bulanik:
For anyone still reading this, good on you, as here comes the underlying point:
Black people (or any other group) should not stop noticing and caring about racism. Rather, they should understand that racism is a sub-element of groupism, which is endemic to the human condition like violence. You cannot ever completely stamp out violence, and any sufficiently committed attempt to completely eradicate violence is guaranteed to result in a horrific dystopia far worse than the original problem.
A healthy and rational society needs to understand the innate and irrepressible impulse of humankind towards violence as well as groupism, and approach the management of them with a combination of education, healthy redirection, and expectations for their non-pathological expression.
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All dogmas are a cancer, be they political, social, religious, or what have you. The converse of reason is dogma.
“”
@ Randy,
Objectivism is a delusion. The sooner you come to grips, the less painful that will be when you finally see the social realities that pervade our society.
Stay longer here and it might just penetrate your thinking. Hopefully.
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@ Randy
I thought you ignored me for a second.
You said:
Actually, people do it everyday in America. Take a simple grade school teacher for example. A teacher who wants nothing more than making sure their class has the chance to learn everything they’ve planned for the year. A teacher (like many) who aren’t against to curving a few student’s test scores around the smart student so they can pass. They do this, because if the teacher were to stop progressing through their curriculum and go back to reteach something, they wouldn’t be able to teach the majority of the class what they had planned throughout the year. The teacher sees the bigger picture.
It’s the same exact thing with white anti-racists not focusing on the lesser detrimental black racism, while they focus on the more dangerous white racism. Hypocrite doesn’t automatically mean “wrong” or “incorrect”. In this case, if you were to continue to call them that, it would mean they aren’t short sighted. Such a simple fact of life leads me to believe (once again) that you ARE using that line of yours as a handy cop-out.
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@ Randy
Please, do provide proof that racism (actual racism, which means a belief that “x is inferior to y”) is natural. Nothing short empirical that has examples from the different human groups that make up the human race, will do. I’ll wait.
In your overly wordy post to Bulanik which was nothing more than well-wishing under the guise of you “regretting to mention an unfortunate truth” you failed to provide any solid examples of that so-called “fact”. Other than some vague “C’mon! Look around you!” comment that you hoped would create an implication heavy enough that it would be able to substitute itself for concrete evidence.
You aren’t as clever as you try to present yourself to be.
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@JT:
“They lack the experience with civil conflict to perfectly frank. They are the place where World War II happened, not the Civil War.”
There has been horrible civil wars in Europe. In Finland in 1918 the civil war was such that the consul of Mexico made an official protest against the atrocities committed by the participants, and he made this despite that fact that there had bee a civil war going on in Mexico for few years by then, which was no picnic either. Also wars in former Yugoslavia in early 1990’s were in essence civil wars, there were numerous civil wars in England, in Ireland, in Greece after WW2, Russia 1917-1922 with millions of dead, the great revolution in France was a civil war etc. In pan European view one might argue that WW1 was also a european affair.
@randy:
“I’m saying the tendency towards racism and other groupisms is normal, not that the manifestations of it are inevitable. That concept serves to rebut the notion of Kwamla and others that racism only exists because it’s taught.
That’s like saying domestic violence only exists because it’s taught. Sorry, but people have violent tendencies. Nobody needs to be taught to be violent. You can encourage people to express more violence with bad teaching and less violence with good teaching, but that’s a different argument from what is being suggested.”
And what is the difference of racism and domestic violence? Are there theories and books and websites and speakers according to whom domestic violence is only natural and biological and can not be avoided? Are there seminars and meetings were speakers encourage the listeners to go back home and beat up their wives and kids, do some violence there, because it is only natural behavior? Are there whole movements with flags and banners and chants which advocate domestic violence? Is there a club like KKK whose members make wows to be violent at their homes?
Are seriously telling us that is only natural to beat up your wife and kids, that it is unavoidable that family members use violence towards one another? Are you tellin us that domestic violence occurs in every family and house because it is too just a natural phenomena, like racism? Ergo, killing children is just normal human behavior?
Or could it be that domestic violence is also somehing we learn, from our parents for example?
“The point about Simo Häyhä was that 2 generations ago, Finns went to heroic lengths to preserve their sovereignty and values, and that now they appear to be inviting people into their country who hold views and values far more antithetical to themselves than did the Russians.”
I can only imagine how insulted mr Häyhä would be by the fact that you use his name arguing against any people. Häyhä was a small farmer, very low key, silent and physically small (barely +150 cm tall) kid when he went to war to defend his very own land, litterally since he was from Carelia, against a super power which intented to invade his country with its own agenda (a super power invading ones country, does that ring any bells??). He did not hate russians as a race but fought a war against the invader. – I did what I had to do and I did it as well as I could, he said years later. And, like the man he was, he did not want to be called a hero nor he liked war or glorify it in any way.
Like another genuine finnish war hero, a general, who was wounded twice in action, said: racist are cowards. And this came from the mouth of a man who lead finns in the battles of Siiranmäki and Vuosalmi in 1944 (check them out) and who was able and willing to order a full artillerary attack on the his own forward positions once the soviets had overwhelmed them and his men had surrendered to them. So this guy was no leftist liberal bleeding heart by no means (actually he was stone cold right wing patriot) and yet he stated publicly: racists are cowards. I have to find a link for this.
As for the new immigrants who hold views and values antithetical to finns, yes, there are some cultural issues and conflicts. BUT, and this is a quite big BUT: the new immigrants have no plan to execute 100 000 finns like Joe Stalin did (NKVD had drawn a list of finns to be eliminated at once they have conquered the country) nor they do have plans to move millions finns to Siberia (like the soviets had) nor they are coming here with tanks, bomber planes and artillery fire. That is a quite a difference, would you agree?
“Rather, they should understand that racism is a sub-element of groupism, which is endemic to the human condition like violence. You cannot ever completely stamp out violence, and any sufficiently committed attempt to completely eradicate violence is guaranteed to result in a horrific dystopia far worse than the original problem.”
So violence is a unchangelable human condition, as is tribalism, of which racism is just a piece, and there fore nothing can be done to that?
“any sufficiently committed attempt to completely eradicate violence is guaranteed to result in a horrific dystopia far worse than the original problem”.
You mean like christianity in many sense, pacifism, United Nations, all peace agreements in history, EU etc etc.?
You mean we would be in much better world today if the WW2 would have been let to go on? USA would be in a much better condition if the war in Vietnam would have never been ended?? That USA would be much better place if the troops would not have been pulled out from Irak and that war would have been allowed to go on till the end of days??? That is what you say there!!
I think you are confusing couple things: aggression, which is in almost any spieces, and violence that can be triggered by that aggression. Usually aggression is used in nature for hunting, competing etc. and in mating rituals, which usually are not that lethal at all.
It is natural for a humanbeing be aggressive when he hunts for food, for example. But you claim that it is natural to beat the household and kill kids and kill people who look different. You get it? You see the difference?
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Here is the general. This article down plays a bit what he actually said to those guys using him as an example of nationalistic hero. It is also good to remember that he was swedish speaking finn from a national minority. And he really said: racists are cowards. Which has been repeated by anti-racist movements ever since.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Ehrnrooth
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And just for those who wonder who the heck was this Simo Häyhä guy randy so eagerly tries to portray as a racist hero, here he is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
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A little analogy regarding Randy – the object lesson
Arguing and contending about race is like a playing a game of chess for Randy. He fancies himself a clever chess prodigy playing against pesky lower ranking opponents who are foolish to think themselves capable of engaging, moving, orchestrating chess pieces (using arguments, points, words). The battle is about the moral inclinations of those he deems as lesser thinkers.
He guards his king (ego) at the expense of every piece imaginable that’s available to him, (even his pieces that were captured and removed from play are somehow miraculously and mysteriously resurrected and restored on the chessboard) because winning at all costs is what really counts – no matter that his king (Randy’s core beliefs and justifications thereof) is an evil, crooked and vile monarch. Losing points is utterly inconceivable and unconscionable to his stunning superior way of viewing and playing the game.
He’s not permitted to lay his king down (concede to irrefutable logic and reason) – even after he has been checkmated by a series of deft moves/appeals – because in his haze ridden/driven mind where tricks, illusions and magic reign, the game merrily goes on for this rapscallion.
It never ends. Not for Randy (and those that are cut from the same cloth). No matter how many times he’s beaten, he will never lay his checkmated and defeated king down to rest.
After all is said and done, his “white” king must always be “right.”
He lives/wills to win. (As do all trolls)
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@ Matari
Unfortunately, I’m just as stubborn as Randy. The only difference is that I’ll actually admit to when I’m wrong and I won’t try to tweak my main argument and slyly try to present that new one as my original one. Now I’m not saying that Randy has done that in this thread, because I haven’t read many of his responses to others, but it’s a maneuver he’s done in the past.
I’ve noticed that there are two types of dishonest whites who post here. There are those defensive ones who’s arguments are emotion based. They often knee-jerk and after reading(skimming) the topic, release some hyperbole injected Red Herring.
Then there are the more “clever” ones who try and present themselves as desiring honest opinion, who distance themselves from the more blatant trolls, by not posting in an extreme fashion. Although their arguments are basically the same they’ll never openly agree with them, and they make sure that don’t ever condemn them unless they say the N-Word. Often engaging in attempts at rationalizing everything BUT that. And I know that I said this earlier in the thread, but I felt that it was worth repeating.
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@ Matari
“…A little analogy regarding Randy – the object lesson…”
I think thats a useful allegory for accounting for Randy’s behavior on this blog
But its one which actively demonstrates the depth, imagination, thought and literal works of creativity wayward commentators like Randy can extract out of us all!!!
Something I find amazingly funny!
.
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Franklin:
I’m not so much talking about anti-racists who simply look the other way at anti-white racism because it’s not as common or not as bad in its effects, but rather those who hold actual anti-white (or whatever) beliefs. At best you can those people are “anti-anti-black racism”.
I think it’s a critical distinction. It’s the difference between saying, “I don’t believe that people should be judged by their race” and “I don’t like when it happens to my people”.
Why should that be relevant?
Theoretically, the goal of anti-racists appears to be coaxing white people to give up their “privilege”. (I don’t quite believe that myself, as I think the goal of Tim Wise is to sell books and fill lecture hall seats, but let’s go with the loftier objective for the purpose of this discussion).
It seems to follow that if you’re trying to convince a group in power to relinquish that power, that you need to appeal to a noble concept, like “equality”.
When anti-racists hold racist beliefs themselves (generally of the anti-white variety), the message comes across like, “You need to give up your power not because it’s wrong to have it, but that we wish we had more of it ourselves.”
How persuasive does the second argument seem to you?
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Franklin:
The term “racism” has broader meanings than just “superiority”. It can be belief in differences between groups or that you treat members of one group differently than another. It’s this broadest definition that I’m referring to.
Keep in mind that I’m not exactly saying that racism is natural. Rather, that groupism is natural, so we shouldn’t be surprised for groupism breaking along differences in race to exist.
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sam,
Here’s an example of why it’s so difficult to have a discussion with you.
Me:
sam:
You write a paragraph of questions which are answered by the passage of mine which you yourself are quoting. Just for fun let me re-answer what’s already been answered and re-answered multiple times:
Violence and groupism are not inevitable, but rather there are natural tendencies for it. If children are taught (by word or example) to engage in violence to resolve issues, they’re more likely to be violent. If they’re taught to not use violence they’re less likely to be violent.
Here’s the keystone, so re-read this paragraph several times: Even if you raise your children in the absence of violence, there would still be violence in the world, because the impulse arises organically. That’s not to say that societies shouldn’t punish violence, or that every person will be violent. It can be reduced but not eradicated, treated but not cured.
I believe that the impulse towards groupism is analogous. It’s borne of an innate impulse which will never be eradicated. That’s not to say that societies shouldn’t organize to reduce the social pathologies of it.
To believe that groupism and violence are purely learned behaviors which can be forever eradicated with sufficiently clever and pervasive teaching is to utterly misunderstand the nature of mankind. Unending miseries can only arise from such a fallacious belief system.
At the risk of opening another can of worms, I would add that groupism and violence shouldn’t be viewed as inherently and in all cases “bad”, but that’s a topic for another discussion. We’re strictly referring to expressions of violence and groupism which result in social pathology.
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@ Randy
So where did you make the distinction that all this time you were talking about that particular sub-sect of anti-racists in your initial statement about them?
First you said here:
…and continuing with the exact same context, you said here:
Which clearly shows that you’re saying “anti-racists as a group are hypocrites” and that’s it. There was no mention on your part of this sudden and new category of radical anti-racists. Don’t tweak your argument now and try to present that as your original one, Randy. Looks like I made that post about you not doing JUST THAT in this thread a little too early.
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@ Bulanik
Lol!!!!!!Lol!!! This is just cracking me up!!! STOP IT!!! STOP IT !!!
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@ Randy
Stop being naive. That’s merely the modified version of the word, since it at the end of the day it still comes down to someone believing that a group is worse and another better. Their resulting behavior can change, but that belief is what said behavior is based upon.
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@ Bulanik
“….“Is it a coincidence, but how come it is the ‘European’ or Europe-based commenters examining this question with Randy?”
I have a little theory of my own…”
Thats quite an interesting perspective and not one I had considered. I’ve been twice to the US but probably not stayed there long enough to observe the differences you mention. But I am inclined to believe the views of yourself and JT may both have some validity in this regard.
Wonder if Randy has a view on this?
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Oh… and Randy I see from your latest comments and postings you’ve taken on board my suggestion to be a bit more explicit in defining your assumptions.
This is to be encouraged on your part because at least it is allowing everyone to see where your “basic views” stem from – even if most people do no agree with them. I would also add from a psychological health point of view… Its better to be open and honest with your view points than to attempt to hide, disguise or clothe them in misleading and ambiguous pseudo-intellectual snippets. None of which aids or affords greater understanding or communication.
But thats just my Belief…
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@ Kwamla, Bulanik, Matari
I’ve been quietly reading your statements on American whites and theories.
Co-Sign!
I stated in a previous post:
Blacks may be oppressed but it’s whites who will never be free.
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sam:
Traditional Islam mandates the pursuit of a global caliphate, enactment of Sharia law, dismantling of liberal democracy, and the repression of women (as measured against the modern western standard). Both it and the Soviet system are totalitarian, and demand the suppression of freedom. At least the Soviets were relatively gender-egalitarian.
sam:
You’re attempting a reductio ad absurdum. I would re-phrase your statement as follows:
“Domestic violence and discrimination towards out-group people are common expressions of the natural impulses of violence and groupism.”
And for the 100th time, I’ll reiterate that these are not necessarily inevitable or desirable, nor is society powerless to address them. However, the complete eradication of these is impossible.
To a crude understanding, the concepts of “reduce / re-purpose” and “eradicate” may seem identical, but they’re actually quite different.
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Franklin:
I don’t think that’s quite true. Let’s look at a small scenario to explore the idea.
Let’s say that the world consists of 2 families, the Wilsons and the Millers. One of the Millers owns a factory and is looking to hire workers. He may give preferential treatment to applicants who are Millers over those who are Wilsons without having to believe that Millers are superior.
In fact, such favoritism can exist if he believed the Wilsons were superior in every way, as in: “I’ve got to help my fellow Millers get a leg up.”
So you can see how in-group favoritism doesn’t require you to hate or look down on out-group people. It can be that way, and there are certainly many examples of it, but that type of belief isn’t necessary.
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Bulanik:
And neither do I. Presenting and attacking straw men neither advances your opinions nor furthers the discourse.
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@Bulanik
Randy said: “I believe a more effective strategy is to acknowledge the endemic tendency towards human tribalism, and structure society to minimize the social pathologies created by this tendency.”
Bulanik said: I think I know what you mean: if only black people would stop noticing racism, and accept it, they would be liberated by their own minds! They would studiously strive for, and copy whiteness FOR THEMSELVES if they wanted to be part of America. Simple
Yes simple, yet brilliantly and succinctly put Bulanik.
Bulanik also said:-“Is it a coincidence, but how come it is the ‘European’ or Europe-based commenter’s examining this question with Randy?”
I have a little theory of my own.”
Not much of one, I admit (lol), but JT has it in a nutshell because “Europeans are possibly less used to the discourse style that is populated throughout North America.” Yes.
I concur with this definition but I must say that whilst JT states “They never had their Civil Rights Act of 1964. I mean they did (in their own little European way)” I am concerned that this diminishes what migrants went through and still go through to this day. After all, there is a reason why they implemented the Race Relations Act in 1974 which has now been basically superseded by the Equality Act 2010.
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Bulanik,
This may be off topic a little but I have a memory that I always found amusing.
I used to visit London regularly because my grandparents lived there ..my mother chose to go to US because she detested Britian but never really said “why”.
I remember on one of my visits, my uncle took me and his family on a drive through Devon to go to the beach. We stopped in Tiverton to visit one of his church member’s family (who are white)
They noticed I spoke differently than my family members, so they asked me “what part of the West Indies i was from”, I say,” Jamaica”…they respond “Ohh, Jamaica’s beautiful, friends who live in St. Kitts, islands are great”, yada yada
They turn to my cousins and ask,”as a West Indian, how do you find living in England”. Of course, my cousins look slightly confused because unlike me, they speak with a British accent, so they say,”We aren’t West Indians, we are British, we were born here”
The Tiverton couple looked at them like they were crazy and said,” well, dear, you aren’t British because you aren’t white, so you are West Indian’s like your parents.”
At that moment, it became clear to me why my mother stayed in Jamaica when her parents decided to immigrate to the “Mother Country”
this was over 20 years ago, so maybe the general thinking has changed.
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@Linda
For fear of getting told off by Abagond ;-), I have responded to your topic on the Open Thread.
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@bulanik: I bet Randy would be quite astonished to hear that there was actually a black jamaican guy fighting in the Winter War on the finnish army, in the very same war were Häyhä did what he did. 😀
I forgot the guys name but it would be a good movie: black jamaican sailor who stayed in Finland when his ship sailed and ended in the war wearing white sheets (snow camouflage) during white winter fighting along side white finnish guys.
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I believe Franklin already correctly addressed this in his comment to you. I’ve called you up on this confused and inadequate description of racism before.
The last example you gave of the “Millers and the Wilsons” in your attempt to explain the absence or presence of racism – as you understand it – shows this up clearly.
Because of your refusal to see racism as something explicitly different than just simple “in-group favoritism” you are confusing it with prejudice. This is why you can make a silly comment like: “…It can be belief in differences between groups…” Really!!! To be believe in differences between groups is racist?
To believe differences between groups originate from some innate biological coding that can only be explained in the dichotomous propositions of superior/inferior – Now thats racist!
So going back to your example. Yes Millers could exercise a family bias (prejudice) towards hiring other Millers but they could also exercise a racial bias (racism) against hiring Wilsons if they believed them to be inferior due to racist held beliefs. The net result hiring more Millers would still be the same .
Here two things are going on: Family bias and Racial bias. But the first is located in the natural “in-group favoritism” you cite repeatedly while the second is located in the erroneously judgmental belief system of superiority/inferiority determines differences.
This is where your confusion, Randy, between racism and prejudice lies. You see no difference but others (including me) do!
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Correction: he was not a jamaican sailor, that was the legend. He was actually a guy whose father had been a circus artist. He grew up among finns and was considered a finn, joined ultra patriotic Suojeluskunta (Protection Guard/National Guard, semi official militia troops) and got military training. He was a leader of a skii troops in Carelian Isthmus during the winter war and was killed in action. He was hailed as a hero. Here he is in the memorial tablet in his home town (Rudolf Prüss):
http://www.nykarlebyvyer.nu/sidor/minnesst/ffradhus.htm
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Look folks, I for one prefer concise descriptions when it comes to racist whites like Randy. In short, Randy is full of shi+. There is nothing to diagnose, interpret, or try to understand. The only thing Randy is informative or useful for is comic fodder. Randy is made for honing one’s mockery and comic skills. Call me weird but I find most of these white supremacist, he**, supremacists of most types to be hilarious because, despite how verbose or adept at cut and paste they are; at their core they are essentially dumb. That they actually may believe the crap they spew makes them hilarious!
@Randy:
Do you have a job? You seem to have infinite time on your hands typing reams of garbage and bullshi+. Either that or you can type thousands of words a minute. Being a supreme white being, perhaps you can. Then again, a simple yes or no would not illustrate or reinforce your superiority whilst engaging the coloured. Carry on with your foolishness, it is funny! Oh Randy, are you a minion of Cthulu?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu
If you aren’t, you should be!
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“They ever had their Civil Rights Act of 1964. I mean they did (in their own little European way)”. This is not strictly true or fair.
Black people in Britain had to fight, and some lost their lives, in the struggle for equal treatment and equal rights. It hasn’t been exactly plain sailing…””
“”
Hi Bulanik,
I am sorry for saying it like that. Having reread it, it was definitely a stupid statement and grounded in ignorance. I just don’t know much about European Black civil rights movements. I haven’t educated myself in it. i have only learned about USA civil rights movements. My apologies.
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Kwamla:
Yes, according to some definitions of the term. Specifying inferiority / superiority is not a requirement.
Kwamla:
It CAN be, but doesn’t HAVE to be. This is a critical distinction, and one that many people don’t appear to acknowledge.
There’s no reason why these have to be two separate processes. Instead of our example of the Millers and Wilsons, let’s consider a group of black people and a group of white people.
If a white factory owner gives preferential treatment to white applicants over black applicants, that doesn’t imply that the black applicants are viewed as being genetically inferior.
Other possible reasons include:
– He doesn’t like black people
– He feels the culture of the black applicants produces inferior workers
– He thinks his other white staff won’t accept black workers, impacting morale and productivity
As morally objectionable as you might think those other reasons are, none of them are based upon a belief of genetic inferiority.
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“You mean Randy sees race relations (black racism as a mirror image of white racism, etc) a bit like this? >> http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvpmypio4W1qg4zx5o1_500.png”
********************************
WOW !!!! LOL
{{{ PRICELESS }}}
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That tumblr photo just made me laugh out loud!!
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“I think thats a useful allegory for accounting for Randy’s behavior on this blog
But its one which actively demonstrates the depth, imagination, thought and literal works of creativity wayward commentators like Randy can extract out of us all!!!
Something I find amazingly funny!”
*************************************
Very good point. Apparently the Universe assigned Randy (and his little gremlin fiends, or friends) here for a purpose beyond merely annoying us and grating on people’s nerves!
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@ So true Matari…the universe wanted us to know we can still have some fun beyond all this annoyance if we can be prepared to seek it out.
Comments by yourself, Bulanik, Herneith and others in this posting testify to that!
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@ Randy
Some genuine and helpful advice…you would do well to read and listen to that link just posted by Bulanik:
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2011/05/black-and-white-grada-kilomba-on.html
The author has a sound understanding and appreciation of racism which she explains in her short video.
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“know we can still have some fun beyond all this annoyance if we can be prepared to seek it out.”
************************
Kwamla,
Yes. I’m beginning to understand that balanced fun/laughter are VERY IMPORTANT components necessary for our survival (and continuity) as Africans …
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Kwamla,
I watched the video. That kind of Oxford-meets-Berkeley hippy/academic narrative is mesmerizing, but rather hard for me to personally connect to.
My “people”, as far as I can trace them back, were diminutive peasant subsistence farmers who were lucky if they had 2 half-starved goats to “oppress”. I can’t really relate to the shaming language on offer.
I’m interested in your response to my last comment. You asserted that racism requires a belief in inferiority, and I offered counterexamples to rebut that.
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Kwamla,
I forgot to ask: are you by any chance of Bantu heritage?
If so, have you come to terms with your Bantu-privilege, and made reparations (mental, social, or economic) with the Khoisan whom your people displaced and ethnically cleansed from their ancestral southern African homeland?
I’m curious if Grada Kilomba also discusses the the problem of Bantu-ness for Bantu people and the healing for the San people.
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@ Randy
You’re a complete idiot. All you did was say that my example was “wrong”, then proceeded to clarify by giving me an example of something you believed was different. Which ended up being an example of I had JUST said. It’s not based off of hatred, which is what you’re trying to slyly imply I’m saying is required for racism.
You’re dishonestly trying to conflate nepotism with racism. Want to see more dishonesty on your part? Ok…
Here’s where you were dishonest again, by saying that the simple belief in differences in groups is called racism. That’s an open ended statement that sets you up perfectly to branch off in multiple directions of derailment. You attempted to remove the definition of the word different (note the context you’re using) to make it synonymous with a word that means “something bad”.
As for the second part of that second sentence where you mentioned treatment, such differing treatment would only come about due to a belief of someone being better or worse based on their race or something related to their race.
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“Perhaps Grada Kilomba’s work should get more coverage?”
***************************
Bulanik, she indeed should. But her message and similar messages don’t wish to be heard, much less accepted, (universally/collectively/generally) by whites.
The message, her message, our message, has been said every conceivable way for hundred of years to no real or lasting avail. The different perspectives/point of views of blacks and whites appear to be fundamentally insurmountable.
But let’s pretend for a moment that there might be some significant reception for this type of appeal/message. How would you go about getting her message more coverage?
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@ Randy
What does Kwamla’s potential “Bantu-ness” and privilege have to do with this thread? Stop blindly throwing out strawmen like ninja stars because you need another smokescreen jump in to, for when you don’t want to admit that you’re proven wrong.
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Franklin,
I’m responding to the video which Kwamla suggested I watch. Grada Kilomba states that white people are always racist and that their job is to strive to produce reparations after atoning for the sins of their ancestors (even, apparently, if your ancestors were serfs who never left their meagre patch of scrubby farmland)
In order to address any potential double-standard, I’m simply inquiring whether or not groups like Bantus, with their own history of genocide, are subject to the same necessity for penitence.
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Thats a good question Franklin which I have been pondering myself and which prompted me to do a little research…
Apart from the fact that my name and heritage is of West African origin there would seem to be little connection between this and the southern origins of the African “…Khoisan whom your people displaced…” as Randy puts it. But then I found this series of programs and articles made by the BBC World service on the History of Africa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/2chapter5.shtml
Randy is plainly endorsing a speculative proposition for early Southern African settlement and expansion from the Bantu populations of West Africa (circa 1000 BCE)
Speculative because regions of Africa – like Central (Congo) – have never been research which the migrating Bantu would have to have transversed.
A more interesting and historically documented fact though about the Khoisan peoples is this:
A 19th century experience I think the present generations of Khoisans would be more deeply traumatized and concerned about.
Don’t you think so to Randy?
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Again…I would recommend for your own growth and self-awareness Randy you take another look at extended links Bulanik has provided concerning Professor Kilomba’s account about racism and specifically white shame:
No matter how you might want to deny or try to dodge this issue it is one you as an America white individual will have to address. Black and POC have their own areas concerning the effects of racism which they need to attend to but they are NOT the same as yours. Therefore cries of double standards and hypocrisy are factually irrelevant and laughable.
There is no double standard here because Black people and POC have never been allowed to reach the standard of Genocide, exploitation and general disregard for human and all life on this planet… But the European and Western powers have… This is a bar that has already been set so high (in immoral and un-ethical terms) that the only way to go now is down!
This is the collective shame all who adhere to the artificially constructed term of whiteness have to address….but before it is too late!
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“It could be a question of how the book and its author is managed, distributed, popularized, and how of course it is ‘converted’ to the minefield (the minefield) of the big, American audience.
There ARE ways to do it, but the machinery is lubricated by oily compromises.”
***********************************
Ways to do it …
PR – Public Relations/Press Releases ?
When you state oily compromises, * my mind automatically pictures a slimy alliance with unscrupulous characters * do you mean that the message would need to be watered down into something more palatable and less offensive to those that are inherently resistant to it?
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “converted” ….
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This stuff is getting way off topic:
Bantus: off topic
Grada Kilomba: off topic
I will do a post on her, hopefully tonight.
I will allow one more comment on Bantus: Randy, what is your source for the Bantu genocide against the San? I am curious because I am doing a post on the Bantu Expansion.
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Bulanik:
Great comment, wrong thread. Please continue the discussion on the Open Thread.
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Abagond,
I believe you’ll find a description of the mass Bantu displacement of Khoisan peoples in “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” In the modern context, this type of ethnic cleansing is likely to be considered genocidal.
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About the two young girls in Gainseville. Simple solution to racism. When blacks look within so will whites. Wow. It’s so genious if one really wants a solution. If they were two black females stereotyping whites (as some of these are on this blog) nothing will bee PUBLICIZED of it. However whites wil still resent it. Thus causing racism for whites as well as blacks. Only way we can be equal is if all sides treat each other equal. So simple.
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@ Jon:
Yes, it would be so simple except these girls were the ones posting their video online showing how incredibly racist they can be. So the only way to be equal is for blacks and whites to treat each other as equals? I believe it begins with racist whites. You can’t look at black people to be your equal if you look down on them because of the amount of melanin they have in their skin. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? I mean, really.
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@Leigh
“You Guys” you said. LOL. I rest my case
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I bet these girls pulled the “innocent white woman act.”
Yes it deserves it own title and quotes because it is so popular.
“Oh why are blacks so emotional and ghetto and angry – we didn’t mean to offend anyone. I have a black friend – she isn’t like that – she is “different”, why are those blacks so angry toward us playing the race card, what did we do wrong? we are now so scared… I bet if two blacks posted a video no one would comment (which is bs , white racist even comment on videos of POC even without being provoked – like a hair video , a video of a girl doing ballet, if she isn’t white, you will hear slurs)”
Meanwhile the whole time theses two girls speak, they will do it through tears.
Ignorant racist little girls.
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@ Jon:
You talk about a solution about racism, but there will never be a solution when racist whites like you are the problem in the first place. The way you view blacks with contempt and airs of superiority. Get over yourself.
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Jon,
Leigh is telling you that racism is not a black problem. Racism is a problem black people face, and it is stimulated by most whites and POC who support their ideals.
If white people who have a racist mindset continue to avoid their own ugliness, racism will continue.
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Personally I think that a lot of racism is imagined by overly defensive colored people or overly guilty white people. I know people of both types who I deeply admire. When we stop looking for racism and accusing people of it, then it will cease to exist. Everyone agrees that we’re equal.
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Kally,
In other words if we stop talking about it, looking at it, or hearing it, it will all magically disappear into a puff of glittery smoke. Because it’s black, or colored people as you call them, and whites who are obviously suffering from self-guilt who are the real racists. It’s not found in politics, corporations, the media, the schools, or even in the justice system. It’s all in our imagination.
*Sarcasm over.*
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@ Brothawolf
LOL!
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@ Brothawolf
…another entry for the broken record department!
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thanks, Brothawolf….cosign with Truthbetold and Matari also
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@ Brothawolf,
Funny thing about that logic. Last time I recalled, racism didn’t suddenly wait to appear until modern black people “imagined” it…I guess we can finally end racism by just letting bigots say what they want! It’s us “noticing” it that makes it pop up. I didn’t know racism was like a lamp genie.
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@Matari
I was thinking the same thing.
@Ace
I know, right? lol
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@ Brothawolf, Matari, Ace, BR
Guys, didn’t you hear….racism died when Obama became president.
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Truth,
Oh yeah. I must’ve forgotten.
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If you are a Christian an truly belong to God there is no difference in our skin color. I’m so ashamed of racist unhuman beings.. I can’t judge them but God will
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Maybe if black people would stop committing so much crime and stop demanding they get equal jobs with less qualifications people would be less racist.
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Sam,
You’re not the same sam that we know. So, don’t expect the same respect I give to him.
Your comment is nothing more than the usual “something’s wrong with black people and it’s their fault white people are racist” mess we come to hear all the time. If you can’t come up with anything better, you may as well retire.
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@ brothawolf:
Yes, I thought it was rather odd our dear Sam would say something like this. It was so obvious this commenter wasn’t Sam. Talk about impersonation fail.
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I don’t know who your Sam is. You’re right, It’s everyone everyone else’s fault black commit so much crime and have the reputation they have.
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Other Sam,
Already been done. Try again.
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Besides “Other” Sam,
We’re not all that bad. After all, you came to a blog that’s run by a black man and is frequented by black commenters. So, evidently, you like us criminal, less qualified black people since you’re here.
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I know not all black people are bad probably not even most, but when 12% of a country’s population makes up over 40% or the prison population there is a problem. Work on those numbers and the racism against blacks would dissipate. People used to be very racist towards Asians. Once they had proved to be productive members of society they didn’t have to deal with that. Not to say no one is racist towards Asians anymore but they have a lot less to deal with then the first generations. Black of past generations overcame tremendous obstacles to give today’s blacks a fair chance. It would be like a slap in the face if they saw what this generation is doing with all the opportunities available.
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Abagond,
How’s that Broken Record Dept thread project coming? Looks like there’s ANOTHER drive by (troll) candidate who needs to be ushered there, asap.
— Other Sam
“I know not all black people are bad probably not even most, but when 12% of a country’s population makes up over 40% or the prison population there is a problem.”
+++++
Lemme guess. You see absolutely NO CLEAR correlation between white supremacy/RACISM and blacks’ 40% over representation in the criminal injustice system. Right???
Anyway, you’re a classic object lesson for this blog owner’s latest post on “fig leaf arguments.” Funny how well that works, Abagond writes a post, and then guys like you invariably show up to prove his point.
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Sure you could argue racism is the cause of all the blacks in jail, but take a look at the number of reported crimes. If that was the case Americans would have to be so racist they would be unwilling to report crimes unless the crime was being committed by blacks.
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Other Sam,
You said, “I know not all black people are bad probably not even most, but when 12% of a country’s population makes up over 40% or the prison population there is a problem. Work on those numbers and the racism against blacks would dissipate. People used to be very racist towards Asians. Once they had proved to be productive members of society they didn’t have to deal with that. Not to say no one is racist towards Asians anymore but they have a lot less to deal with then the first generations. Black of past generations overcame tremendous obstacles to give today’s blacks a fair chance. It would be like a slap in the face if they saw what this generation is doing with all the opportunities available.”
And what makes you think that racist has nothing to do with it? Do you know the extend to how racism operates in this country? My guess is no because if you did, you would know that it’s systematic and very real even in the new millennium.
Also, what makes you think that black people today don’t face obstacles that are more, less, or similar to the ones in the past? Black people of all walks of life have to deal with the following, just to name a few:
-Racial profiling
-Media racism
-Last hired, first fired
-Unemployment and underemployment
-Corporate and business racism
-Racism in the courts
I could go into greater detail, but I’m sure you’re more than capable of doing that yourself. The question is would you take the time to do so?
Then, you said, “Sure you could argue racism is the cause of all the blacks in jail, but take a look at the number of reported crimes. If that was the case Americans would have to be so racist they would be unwilling to report crimes unless the crime was being committed by blacks.”
And what is the number of reported crimes? Let me guess, you got the info from the DOJ right?
It’s not that simple. One can not go by numbers alone to tell one about a group of people. That is lazy thinking. Besides, numbers can be fixed.
Finally, let me assume that you have had very little contact with black people and that you are non-black, unless you’re one of those non-blacks that will say that he or she is black just to win an argument and nothing more. Whatever the case, why don’t you try reading and listening to what we say instead of just dismissing it just because you don’t agree.
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Its great to blame racism for your own faults. Its easier than saying you have a problem. There is no comparison of the obstacles of today’s blacks then the ones in the past. How many times has the national guard been called out so any of you can go to school? Unless your really old none of you. You can go to any school work anywhere you want and go anywhere you want. In fact employers are forced to hire you and schools are forced to take you. Is there any all white schools anymore? Nope, But you are allowed to have all black schools or even social clubs.
You say numbers can be fixed. You have to know there is blacks in every level of public safety and the DOJ. So you expect people to believe the plot against blacks is so diabolical that the white devil is able to change statistics with nobody blowing the whistle? Every black in this country is dying to cry racism. That maybe why they have so many problems.
I have worked around black people more times than I can count. I am rarely impressed by them. The American blacks anyway. It seems like blacks from other country’s are always better worker. It may be they are not used to being able to cry racism every time the boss asks them to do anything or has a problem with them.
As far as racism in the media is concerned I think you have it backwards. It seems there are horrible crimes going unreported in the media because they don’t want to be labeled as racist towards blacks. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/04/gannett-army-101st-airborne-veteran-beaten-wife-killed-robbery-042112/
Why do we hear nothing of these stories but little Trayvon Martin gets all the coverage in the world. Until the facts of the case start coming out. Then the media turns from the story in fear of being called racists. People walk on eggs shells to protect themselves from being called racists.
I’m Hispanic, Mexican American to be precis, but Ive always just considered myself an American. I make no excuses for my race. Our problems our the fault of ourselves.
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Other Sam,
At first I was going to let it slide and let you stew in your own muck. And after much consideration, I think I will. Why? Because I will not go out of my way to argue with a mind already made up so concretely. Besides, you are capable of looking up reasonable arguments to counter your (Ha!) thinking.
All I will say is that the white racist mindset (WRM) that you are suffering from is destroying your ability to think above a low-level. This is why you came here spewing the vomit that we’ve heard a million-and-one times by other drones without individual minds of their own who think they know black people enough to go by statistics and news reports.
Sure, you tell me stuff that’s been said numerous times and send me news report links to claim how the evil liberal media ignores certain crimes against whites by blacks (I won’t bother to click on either of your links because I know what to expect) while disproving that claim with those news reports. You see how stupid that is to produce a claim and then counter it with what you think is proof? That is what the WRM does, my friend.
I won’t even address your last paragraph because it is about the fear of being called racist and your anger that Trayvon’s murder gets a lot of attention. That in itself is insensitive and outrageously stupid.
If you don’t make excuses for your race, knock yourself out. But don’t tell another blogger in his own blog to do the same thing as if you have a joint-ownership. This blog doesn’t make excuses. It searches for explanations which are not the same. If you can’t tell the difference, that’s your problem, buddy.
So, continue trolling around here as often as you like. You may only be amusing yourself. I’m out. Have fun, and get some help. You seriously need it.
Peace.
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Their racist comments are unfortunate. But it doesn’t surprise me at all. I am a minority from out west. If you think these racist white girls are bad you should have seen those from the previous generation when I was in college back in the late 80s and 90s. There were far more racist women like that and with higher intensity. I’ve spent a lot of time in Gainesville and know that many white women are not racist to that extreme. As for the racist girls in the video, they are teens. They can still learn from their mistakes. I hope they do.
Back in the 80s the racist white women at the college I attended had a racist name for white women who had black boyfriends. It was a harder time for racial tension. Nowadays, I see a lot of African American college guys with white girlfriends in the gym and most people don’t seem to care. By contrast, back in the 80s I literally saw a mixed couple like that get assaulted by racist white men in the mall in broad daylight. The cops came and took them away – violent white supremacists attacking an African American with a white girlfriend in a crowded shopping mall.
This 80s song was about the tragic sociological pressure of racism imposed upon mixed couples. Nowadays some people get nostalgaic about the 80s with films like “Breakfast Club” and 80s music. But as a real 80s teen I know the racial tension was worse back then.
I remember I went to pick up a date at a dorm at my college and these white girls saw me. I heard everything they said behind closed doors. Their racist comments were extreme. At the time it was harsh for me because I thought Catholics aren’t supposed to be racist. But they were racist Catholic white women who didn’t want minorities on campus. I’m glad the 80s are gone. Relatively speaking, 2012 is much better with the younger generation.
Modern racism tends to be more subtle – so racism still exists. Ever notice how most modeling agencies prefer blonde white women? That’s subtle racism – usually denied by white management but obvious to minorities. However, some minority women still see it as blatant racism.
http://jezebel.com/309100/modeling-industry-still-loves-it-some-leggy-white-blondes
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Ok…so…what have they said that IS NOT TRUE?
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The only problem here is that she left out Latinos.
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The worst racists I have ever and ONLY encountered are high handed obnoxious supposedly educated yet inferior ignorant minorities. God help Us, those supposedly uneducated southerners in the 60’s knew more than we ever did about these mud-people. They were right and we intellectuals were totally wrong. Period. I fi had a nickel for every moron negress that was handed a medical degree and the homo liberals who let their murdering stupidity slide in the name of “diversity” I’d have gotten rid of my medical school debt years ago…all you need do is pump them with a little alcohol and their rants against the white establishment and complaints of “how hard it is for them” (HA!) are thrown by the wayside as their black whore lips slide around your white MD cock while they moan ” give me a white baby, baby”….it’s so pathetic. Just whom do these nappy know-nothings think they’re fooling. Don’s get me started on those mixed breeds – Niggerinicans and Spicoricans: they are WORSE. And DUMBER. NICE work there, Doc McStuffins.
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@ White Male MD
Do you think you are racist? Why or why not?
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We are a gaggle of volunteers and starting a new scheme in our community.
Your site provided us with useful info to work on. You’ve performed an impressive process and our whole group might be grateful to you.
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I am glad to see two white teens saying it like it is, and not scared of it! Most not all blacks, are the problem in this country today they use words like cracker, redneck, country bumpkin just to name a few. Every time I turn on the T.V. A black is bitchin about a white person calling them a Nigger, spook, jigaboo as a white male I been called these names and it pisses me off but I got to suck it up because I don’t want some black accusing me of a hate crime, just because they don’t want to hear the truth about themselves and their pathetic race and if you don’t like my comment oh well freedom of speech!
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Tobias lucus,
I’m curious, did a lot of white people have a secret meeting about what to say when racism is discussed, statements that derail conversations to shame blacks for speaking out and not shutting up to please white people? Did you have a list of things to mention that’s sure to disrupt race topics in your favor? Did ya’ll plot to go into black owned blogs and websites to carry out your troll attacks?
It wouldn’t surprise me if you did. lol
And no, I don’t like your comment, and just because you have freedom of speech doesn’t mean 1. you can use it for hate and 2. only you can use it. I have freedom of speech too, and I have the freedom to disregard your racist comment in text.
Try again, pal.
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