“I don’t see colour, I just see a human being” is something racist White Americans say. It sounds high-minded and anti-racist to them and they probably mean well, but it is like saying:
- I don’t see a woman, I just see a human being.
- I don’t see a Frenchman, I just see a human being.
- I don’t see my friend, I just see a human being.
- I don’t see a cat, I just see a mammal.
As if there is something wrong with being a woman or a Frenchman or one’s friend or a cat. Or a person of colour. As if there is something so wrong in not being white that white people must somehow overlook that supposed fault to accept others.
The idea is that being different is bad, that to be accepted you have to be seen as the same somehow. That in the end white is right.
At best it is a science fiction statement about another world way in the future (or way back in the time-travel past), a world where colour truly does not matter. But that world is not America in 2011. So to talk like that seems delusional at best.
It is a delusion that people of colour in America cannot afford. If you try to act as if you are white when you cannot pass for white, it leads, at best, to internalized racism, self-doubt and confusion. The only healthy course of action is to own your colour and be proud of it. So your colour becomes part of who you are. It is not something to “not see” as if it were a matter of shame.
In practice, of course, the statement seems to mean the complete opposite: that they do notice colour – why else did they bring it up? – that in fact it is probably the only thing they noticed, so much so that you have become a cardboard stereotype in their minds based on hip hop or kung fu or who knows what.
Even if racism disappeared there would still be African Americans and Asian Americans and so on, just like there are still Irish Americans and Italian Americans. It is just that not being white would no longer be a big deal – just like not being a Wasp is no longer a big deal, even though it was a hundred years ago. There would still be differences and people would notice them but they would not be seen in a bad light, they would not be used to dehumanize.
It is not the differences that cause racism nor does it lie in noticing or not noticing them – it is how we deal with those differences that matters.
Not seeing colour will not make racism go away. Because it leaves untouched the idea that being different, of not being white, is somehow bad. Because by not seeing colour you do not see racism either, which keeps everything just the way it is.
See also:
GREAT POST!
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I never understood the whole “I don’t see colour, I just see a human being” concept. Time and again, I’ve heard people (mostly whites) say this. So you don’t see colour, eh? It’s interesting because in my younger years, I’ve had my features ridiculed because folks like these didn’t see colour. Yeah, right.
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I’m glad I don’t go around saying dumb things like this.
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No, you just say dumb things in general. lol! 😀
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Lara, you are either a terrible comedian or the most ignorant white woman on the face of this planet assuming that you are a white woman.
I heard a supposed, non-racist white woman told me that same comment a while back. It was then I knew that she was racist, but hated to face that fact. She knew she saw a young black man and not a young man. She probably saw me as another robber, rapist, or felon.
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Whenever someone says to me…or around me, “I don’t see color…” a red flag automatically goes up. I would be more inclined to believe a person was not a racist if he/she made no such statement. It’s just like people who wear those “WWJD” (What would Jesus do)? t-shirts. When you truly ascribe to certain beliefs, religious or otherwise, it will show in your behavior over time without you having to announce it.
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Excellent post, Abagond!
“Not seeing colour will not make racism go away. Because it leaves untouched the idea that being different, of not being white, is somehow bad. Because by not seeing colour you do not see racism either, which keeps everything just the way it is.
…and the beat goes on – precisely as Baldwin described it here:
Click to access 2_On_Being_White.PDF
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brothawolf,
That’s my point. If I saw you, I would notice right away you are a black man.
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@ Deb:
Thanks for the link. Good stuff.
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Hello folks. I have been reading here for some time now, and the post have been interesting and informative. However I am a person that likes solutions. I don’t recall seeing any real solid solutions but forth here for us to consider in changing the current situation.
I would like to know what is it that we can do to remedy this, or at least make those who are so ignorant squirm a bit, knowing that we really got their number.
Thanks folks.
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I know my last suggestion was a bit outlandish, perhaps, but have you considered doing an article about the Carthaginian general Hannibal Barca?
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Needed to be said, people have it twisted. The whole idea of not seeing race comes from both a wrong/misguided heart and mind. It’s more of a “I accept in spite of your race”, as opposed a more useful and beneficial “I appreciate your race and what it brings to the table.” It’s in line with the whole “tolerance” thing that became popular in the 90s. The implication is that what’s tolerated is less than favorable
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@ Healthy1 – The answers usually come up in the comments section not the posts.
@ Wacka Flocka – Why Hannibal? He WAS African bit would he be considered as being “Black” in today’s world:? Wouldn’t Piye be a better representation of BLACK conquerers?
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If we deconstruct the psychological warfare being employed, it goes something like this:
Race is a social construct.
Wrong-hearted and wrong-minded liberal whites see the racial construct and then deny “race.”
These same deluded liberal whites CAN ONLY SEE human beings.
The black liberationist – who also sees “race” as a social construct – sees more than just human beings.
The black liberationist sees different “races,” but still understands that they are social constructions.
The black liberationist KNOWS that we are really just human beings.
The black liberationist comes to the same conclusion as the white liberal…
But the white liberal is still “racist.”
So what aspect of “white Supremacy” and “white privilege” does the black liberationist really hate?
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Nom De Plume…You’re welcome! The man was definitely both present and prescient (do share him!).
thordaddy…I have some problems with your deconstructions with which I hope you can help me. While I agree that race is a social construct, it is one with which we ALL have been living for a very long time. That said:
“Wrong-hearted and wrong-minded liberal whites see the racial construct and then deny “race.”
Of course those wrong-hearted/wrong-minded liberals SEE the racial construct (especially in America) – they created it! Denying race, it seems to me, is merely a ruse to deflect responsibility/accountability for what they’ve created – after it’s served their purposes (free labor, false sense of superiority, etc.), No?
“These same deluded liberal whites CAN ONLY SEE human beings.”
Again, only when it’s convenient/expedient for them, IMHO. If what you say is true, neither the slave trade, nor the Holocaust for that matter, should ever have happened, right? (or were you being facetious?)
“The black liberationist – who also sees “race” as a social construct – sees more than just human beings.”
At the end of the day, what more might that be?
“So what aspect of “white Supremacy” and “white privilege” does the black liberationist really hate?”
Can’t speak for “the liberationist” (I try to shun “-ist” boxes as much as I can these days), but – I really hate that neither of the afore-mentioned ever really OWNS their deluded shit and rarely, if ever, takes any concrete steps to repair what they’ve damaged. For me, anything short of both – is just more constructed bullshit.
Yes, they, and us, all know we are really just human beings – however, they seem to have a problem with that “inconvenient truth” because it then, confirms who the “savage” really is, has been and continues to be (which gives birth to that deeply embedded fear of retribution that keeps them spending all that Byrne money in Black and Brown communities, and threatening to do away with Posse Comitatus; after all, if they, as humans, could do the horrific things they did – unprovoked – they must know that other humans are possibly capable of the same, particularly when they’ve had a lifetime of good reasons to do so, No?)
The white liberal (Oxymoron? I mean, given all the “un-liberal” ways employed to control the rights and freedom of “Others”), who neither owns, nor makes any attempt to repair the damage they’ve done, is still “racist” within the construct of race that they’ve created over lifetimes.
No way that huge amount of “garbage in, garbage out” just goes away (no matter how much people would like to think it does). It permeates, then poisons as it lingers – at least until one can first, see how it does those things and then, refuse to buy into that shit anymore – regardless of the consequences. But, a damned-near destroyed self-esteem, coupled with attempted soul murder tends to take a whole lot of time and an ass of hard work to undo.
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Deb,
While you have your mind on the white liberal elite, I believe abagond was referencing the everyday white liberal who REALLY BELIEVES that “race” doesn’t matter, isn’t relevant, cannot exist… Is a “social construct.”
The implication is clear. “Race” as “social contruct” equals “race” is not real and concrete. The social construction of race is a fabrication perpetrated on the masses. It is used to maximize the autonomy of whites while minimizing the autonomy of non-whites.
The everyday white liberal BELIEVES exactly how deb and abagond believe. The everyday white liberal is in full agreement with the black liberationist. The everyday white liberal is willing to minimize his autonomy so that it may maximize the autonomy of the black liberationist.
And what does the everyday white liberal get in return for his belief that seeks to maximize the autonomy of the black liberationist?
The everyday white liberal is called a racist…
And so he’s both a despised and submissive fool. He is willing to accept his racism even as he is blind to seeing any “race.”
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Leigh, it happens. You may not believe it, but not so long ago I talked to a woman about works of art, for quite some time and it wasn’t in a quarter of an hour before I noticed she was Asian, because it did not matter to me. On the other hand, I thought of her as an experienced art instructor visiting an exposition including work of some of her fellow artist friends.If your talking about iron, bronze, clay and stone, the mind of sculptors and other artists, the importance of placement of a work of art, race is not important. Not beyond, do you think that the arist had a certain race in mind when he or she made this nude?
Maybe you need to have lots of white privilege, or roots in a culture where the race construct does not matter (not to say that such cultures cannot be at the same time strongly colorist or so), but if race is not important to you, say because you’re more of an ethnic than a racial thinker, because you care more about the naturalness of hair than its actual appearance or because the idea of white churches and black churches has to you always been something relating to the colors of the walls and towers of places of worship. One can fail to notice “race”, because it is not important to one, but that is a notion the US culture attacks.
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I think “I don’t see the color” is just one frase in the whole plethora of orwellian language used today. It has seeped from the politicians jargon into everyday language and words do no longer mean what they supposed to mean.
Example: “Operation Iraki Freedom” is of course in plain english “We gonna kill Hussein and f**k the rest”. “I don’t see the color” translates “I see you are black but I will not mention it so you will be not embarassed about that and I don’t have to feel uncomfortable here talking about your skin color”.
I know I’m just an old fart but what I try to do and have tried for ages, is to see everyone as individual. You are you and black. You are you and white. You are you and french etc. I try not to see people as somekind of unofficial representatives of whole nations or groups, even though some claim to be just that, like politicians.
Race is a social construct, cultural invention. It has nothing to do with biology. Looking a person as individual, things like skin color becomes just a part of that individual. Ok, you have black skin, blue eyes, pink hair, that is what you look like. I have white skin, one eye on my forhead and shaggy hair down my spine, that is what I look like. This may sound stupid but it works for me.
Race as a political question, as a political concept is more complicated issue, but I try to see people as individuals. That way your skin color does not mean more than the color of your hair to me.
Yeah yeah yeah, I am an dreamer, delusional and what ever, but I just refuse to define any ones personality or nature or humanity by the color of their skin. Not that I do not see it. It would be ridicilous to claim not to see that, particulary when you do notice that some one has been at the barbers.
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Abagond, quick questions: are you black or are you mulatto?
I know you identify as black, but I mean by blood.
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@aaronovitch: 😀 by blood???? 😀
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@Healthy1:
“I don’t recall seeing any real solid solutions put forth here for us to consider in changing the current situation.’
——-
I think for starters, blogs like this one and other types of discussions are the first step. Discussion can bring about understanding that leads to solutions. Another important step, IMO, is introspection. Changing one’s heart is a must. Not everyone will change, but everyone is capable of changing.
@louisjacuzzi:
It’s more of a “I accept in spite of your race”, as opposed a more useful and beneficial “I appreciate your race and what it brings to the table.”
——-
I totally agree. I would go a bit further.. ‘I appreciate your cultural background and what it brings to the table, while still seeing you as an individual.’
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“‘I appreciate your cultural background and what it brings to the table, while still seeing you as an individual.’”
I guess, “Hi, what’s up?” isn’t going to cut it.
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Mulatto, means something like person who is black by the one drop rule, with 50% or more of “white” ancestry. (counting X and Y chromosomes as being of the same value), nothing in Abagond’s writings suggest he is that white, on the other hand with the majority of Afro-Americans (defined as descendants of the cargo transported in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, having a bit of “white” ancestry by now, it can be assumed that it is probable that Abagond has some European ancestors, but not enough of that to be considered mulatto. Why did you ask?
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Well yes so let me clarify: Abagond: do you have a white genetic parent or grandparent?
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@Aaronovitch:
It’s clear you have not read many of the posts on this blog.
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Peace Abagond,
Read your blog on the reg and enjoy it a great deal. When reading posts I see white dots in the background. Are those snowflakes? If so, ppl in the community have used that term B4 is it what i think it is? If they’re not snowflakes pls disregard.
Again really enjoy your work please continue to keep it 100.
d2
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d,
I think they’re a seasonal decoration–snowflakes. I’ve noticed that they’re responsive to my cursor too. Nice touch!
I see the Tar Baby that is thordaddy has emerged from under the bridge again. Warning, folks–don’t feed it!!
This is a useful post, with Abagond exposing once again the sad and largely unconscious hypocrisy of whiteness, in this case, white liberalism.
I sometimes say in return something along the lines of, “You don’t see race? Really? OF COURSE you see race! I guess you mean you don’t see it as significant? But that’s still ridiculous, because it IS significant, both to non-white people and to you as a white person. Why not wake up and ask yourself why you say such silly things?”
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@proudchocolategirl:
Thanks for the vid. It reminded me of that post Abagond did on celebrities who adopt black kids. I checked out this woman’s channel. The childhood/adolescent experiences she talked about were sad, but I admire how she made sense out of everything and got on with her life. Compelling story.
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Guilty as charged. Point?
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The point is that asking what color dress the dark ladies here would like, if they found themselves in heaven, in possession of two white wings, and a tasteful natural hair do, and in accute need of some new clothing, as I might like to do, is less bizarre than your question.
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@sam are you a cyclops?
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aspergum…Thanx!
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@ sam:
“I am an dreamer, delusional and what ever, but I just refuse to define any ones personality or nature or humanity by the color of their skin. Not that I do not see it. It would be ridicilous to claim not to see that, particulary when you do notice that some one has been at the barbers.”
Your ‘delusions and dreams’ seem fine to me! 😀
Whenever I see that someone has come from the barber shop, I always ask: “Hey, did you get your ears lowered?” 😎
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dave said:
@sam are you a cyclops?
I very much doubt that dave. I think Sam has what’s called the Third Eye – it’s a RARE gift… the bearer of which is more prone than not to be able to DISCERN the TRUTH about most things. His middle eye permits him to see (seer) things in “reality” that most white people can not.
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Abagond, quick questions: are you black or are you mulatto?
He is neither. He is however an alien from Mars:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGB7FYaJtYfY1yxuP4ZDMm0SuxU9KyshTap6OUAz9a8YmqouaE
do you have a white genetic parent or grandparent?
No, but he has a red martian great grandfather:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRagSVNzPyWlpX0qcvfeTxYj82HCGci_up56MMkAgI82gN4iJss
Despite all this, he sees no colour as he is a mish mash of many colours!
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Abagond-
I know you believe in collective white guilt, so do you believe in white pride? And if so, do you believe the accomplishments in the latter category are outweighed by the former?
For the record I believe in neither, although I do believe in national guilt/pride, and as a British person I suspect I can have a healthy share of both.
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We need to define an end, a goal to this. I’m sure Abagond is a just man who doesn’t believe in unearned guilt. His great contribution is to make it explicit and clear that the White identity is itself illegitimate, and that someone who identifies as White is already, eo ipso, racist. What we need to do is find a formula whereby people of predominently European origin may become genuinely non-racist, and given due credit for this. I believe that we can find that formula in this: Europeans are very diverse culturally. People of those diverse European cultures have often hated each other, even unto the death – what else was the Jewish Holocaust, and lesser massacres and atrocities also? Certainly they have shown strong prejudices against each other, and these prejudices have had a long, resilient life in America. The racism implicit in the White identity lies in the suspension of these historic inter-European enmities in order to “concentrate on” a single opposition, that against people of African origin. At last let the good intentions behind the expression “African American” be unhypocritically expressed: “African American” should no longer be a polite synonym of “Black”, but an ethnicity genuinely taking its place alongside many other hyphenated-Americannesses (“Irish-American”, “Italian-American”, “Polish-American”), none of which are any longer subsumed under White. Ban Whiteness; recognize Blackness as what it is, membership in the African diaspora; if European-American, avoid as far as possible identifying with any cultural or other norms supposedly shared only with other European-Americans, and not with those of African origin. Just make Whiteness terminally uncool.
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Yohnitzl,
Just make Whiteness terminally uncool.
It’s already there, at least in the U.S., and has been for a long time. That’s why white boys wear their pants on the ground and white girls flash “gang” signs. They’re trying to run away from their whiteness. Not that they can, and not that they won’t cash in their white privvy chips whenever it pays to do so.
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Yohnitzl says,
His great contribution is to make it explicit and clear that the White identity is itself illegitimate, and that someone who identifies as White is already, eo ipso, racist.
This may be abagond’s great contribution, but because it is the assertion of a black liberationist, it holds no water.
The idea that holding a white identity implies racism is an absolutely illiberal point of view. In fact, to the genuine liberationist, whether black or white, one can self-identify in whatever manner they please and to draw implications as to the motive for identifying in a particular way is verboten.
What you are truly saying about abagond’s great contribution is that he holds a perspective on white identity that he holds for no other form of identity. He holds an illiberal view as a black liberationist.
Some might call it hypocrisy, but that doesn’t really exist in the world of the genuine liberationist either.
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I’m racist because I don’t hold value over other people’s skin colors? Please. When people say this phrase, I’m pretty sure it’s not meant in a literal sense. Well, unless you’re blind. Of course people notice each other’s physical characteristics. This phrase really means that you’re going to acknowledge people for the individuals they are, and not prejudge them in a stereotypical way because of their “race”.
And say “race” with quotation marks, because I don’t even acknowledge race as a real thing. whenever I have to put that I’m Black/African-American on a form, it just makes me laugh. why is this so important? sometimes I just fill in other, and write that I’m human.
someone can’t be truly color blind, while having racist views, since being color blind is essentially the opposite of being racist. I don’t get where this idea comes from. someone who claims to be color blind, to appear good, while concealing their racism, isn’t truly color blind
race doesn’t define people, whatsoever. culture does. and not just american culture, nigerian culture, japanese culture, etc. your own personal culture – the way you live your life
being color blind doesn’t mean you’re ignorant about the racism that has occurred, and still occurs in society. as someone who is color blind, it really bothers me that the hate still goes on, and for something so trivial. I really try to be accepting of different cultures, too, though that doesn’t always come as easily as not judging someone because of their skin color. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things I don’t accept, but in a way, I’m sympathetic, because people have been raised to having particular beliefs.. so who am I to blame them for it? none of us are perfect. it’s a bit hard to explain.
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I am white. Somewhere during my childhood, I don’t remember where or how, I learned that “colorblind” is the correct attitude toward race. I believe it is derived from the ideal that people should be judged by their character and not their skin color. I doubt that I have ever said that, because it isn’t true. But I have awkwardly tried to make myself ignore that someone is black, to convince myself that skin color is no more consequential than hair color. Why? Because it is as if noticing or mentioning someone’s race makes you racist. If someone says that they don’t see color, it is likely because they were taught this misguided paradigm and haven’t learned better. They believe in the ideal, even if they secretly or unconsciously do not or cannot rid themselves of racial bias. (And there are those who really don’t take much notice of physical appearances, too.)
If someone claims to be colorblind and you feel inclined to try to correct them, I suggest gently calling them out on the lie but don’t call it racist. They don’t want to be racist. They want to see us all as one humanity (or one nation, or whatever group they identify you and themselves with). They don’t understand the concept of “white” as an oppressive cultural monolith. I don’t either. I get it but I don’t *get* it. How can I? When someone taught me the foolishness of colorblindness, they told me that to ignore someone’s race or ethnicity is to ignore their identity, their humanity. The idea of “colorblind” is so absurd that I think most reasonable people can be shaken from it pretty readily, especially if the instruction comes from a black person who is essentially giving them permission to be more honest with themselves.
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Nitou,
You must understand that those white liberals who claim “colorblindness” are not primarily motivated to take this stance in order to placate black liberationists, rather, they take this stance to distinguish themselves from either genuine or liberally-created “white Supremacists.”
The abagonds of the world are actually in complete agreement with the “colorblind” white liberals who fear and loathe “white Supremacy,” whether real or imagined.
When abagond says that “colorblind” white liberals are actually racist/white Supremacists, he is merely attempting to maximize his autonomy in relation to ALL whites including the naive and deluded “colorblind” white liberal.
Your attempted placation of a black liberationist is entirely futile.
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@nitou: race and ethnicity are different things. ethnicity is actually the thing that matters, that defines people, not race. how am I defined by my skin? that just sounds pretty stupid to me. But at the same time, you shouldn’t assume all people of the same ethnicity are the same, either. It keeps coming down to treating people as individuals, and being open minded. You can’t stick your opinion of someone in stone, when you hardly know them. You wouldn’t want someone to have a rigid opinion of you either, rooted in stereotypes. I don’t understand how any of this is a “lie”.
@thordaddy: so all white people are racist? that makes perfect sense
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Dee,
Genuine white liberals are certainly not “racist,” if by racist you mean “white Supremacists.”
White liberals and white Supremacists are entirely antithetical to each other. It’s a distinction that abagond fails to make because all liberationists, whether black or white, are ultimately still in battle with each other to maximize their respective autonomy. That they find time to ally in the face of a genuine white Supremacist is nothing more than evidence of their tendency to maximize their collective autonomy as mutual liberationists.
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@thordaddy: then what’s “naive and deluded” about being color blind?
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Racial bias is a bit different from racism. Few white people are blatantly racist as a white supremacist, but everyone has multitudes of biases that are often at work unconsciously influencing our behavior. The effects of biases are typically invisible to the perpetrators and sometimes even the targets. Very few people are free of racial bias in race-conscious American culture, and it causes much harm yet is largely unseen (to whites). One bias is the assumption that standard=white (so it follows that non-white is non-standard). Agabond has observed it (and calls it racism) even among liberal whites. He criticizes the “colorblind” liberal as racist because claiming “colorblindness” is a method of keeping racial bias in the dark of the unconscious where it can continue to operate unseen.
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@nitou
“One bias is the assumption that standard=white (so it follows that non-white is non-standard).” Great example of a bias. Have thought the same way just didn’t sum it up quite as well as you. Thanks for sharing.
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Dee,
The delusion is forcing oneself to be “color blind.”
The naivety is believing that it will placate the abagonds of the world.
As abagond clearly stated…
White liberals who claim to be “colorblind” are REALLY racists/white Supremacists.
Now, I don’t believe that. I think they are self-annihilators.
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@uglyblackjohn He can speak for himself, but I don’t believe Abagond discriminates based on race. I believe we’ve seen articles regarding people of all colors and backgrounds. Hannibal is also relevant to the racial discussion because of the debate over his racial background/ethnicity.
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Good topic.
@Abagond, I think people who say they don’t “see” color actually mean, they don’t “DWELL” on someone’s race but see them as individuals.
Samuel L. Jackson’s character told Matthew McConaughey’s character in A Time to Kill: “No matter how you see me, you will never see me as man. You will always see me as a BLACK man.”
This illustrates the difference between seeing someone’s race v. dwelling on someone’s race. You can’t avoid SEEing someone’s race, but you can avoid dwelling on it (seeing him as a person v. as a black person).
Often, I find that people input race when there’s no need to.
For example: “that black dude fell off a chair” v. “that dude fell off a chair.”
The meaning of the above phrase doesn’t change, but there’s emphasis on “race” in the first phrase, and the emphasis is UNnecessary. Most people can’t avoid seeing race, but worse, some people feel compelled to keep pointing out or bringing up your race, especially when it’s unnecessary.
b. You mention incorporating your race into your life. I don’t incorporate my race into my life. I know I am black; I don’t need to point it out to anyone (it’s obvious) nor do i need to have someone else point it out to me daily. It’s silly. I am aware of racial discrimination, too, but I don’t use my race as a handicap for why I can’t do something. Before I make a decision, I don’t think about how it will affect me as a BLACK person, but rather, how it will affect me, period.
I am aware I will likely always be seen as a “black person” first before I am seen as a person, but that’s someone else’s problem–such a person is colorstruck.
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I still don’t understand why when people say that phrase it is racist. If it is they don’t know it is, and mean good intentions. In fact you even said they meant well….. I guess I better phrase would be ” I see color, but I don’t really care sense that is literally just their appearence…” . I am white. I don’t view myself as a racist although in some weird twisted way from someones elses perspective I just might be (lol ????). Maybe for all I know none you will read this because you will assume this is racist. ( sorry???)
I noticed every time you ever adress to white people you say “white people”. To
you I will probably always be seen as a white person, and you will try to avoid me or whatever you said in your advice about to “talking to white people”. Why is it any different to talk to white people?……..its a color, nothing else. Really you should have said “how to talk to a close minded racist”.
I admit white people are racist, some very racist.In fact even I admit to being racist even to white people because of how I think they look. In the end though I judge people on who they really are.
There are also racist people of every race/ background/ culture/ whatever you want to call it. In fact I have been insulted for being white even by black people. So I really don’t know what the point of this whole comment was, but I guess to say it goes both ways. No not both ways, it goes with all the ways lol (n case I was so “racist” by saying both, and implying their are only two races).
Yep thats about it………ugh…..THE END.
P.S Honestly I would be angry if someone was NOT being themself with me because they thought I wouldn’t like them. Life’s too short. If someone doesn’t like you, please don’t pretend to be someone else, ( and waste their time too)just don’t be friends with them.
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Abagond,
Why using the pic of hominids for this post?
As for the “I don’t see colour” thing, I guess many (white) people do think mentioning race (colour) is bad. I’ve been personally warned a couple of times online by (white) moderators for mentioning that someone was black. Interesting, I was never warned when I mentioned someone was white.
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@ Mel & Lola
To see where I am coming from understand that I was brought up to be colour-blind. Looking back it was a terrible mistake.
The trouble with colour-blindness is that it BLINDS you to what is going on. If you are a person of colour that blindness leads to internalized racism because you cannot see through the lies of white people. And that limits you because you buy into their racism.
Yes, I see white people (in the English-speaking world) as white because that is what they are. Their words and actions make way more sense that way. They like to think they are unaffected by their race but it simply is not so.
More:
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@ Mira
I wanted a picture of human beings that came across as strictly biological. That was hard to do with living ones because of all the cultural signals they have. Also, in an earlier draft I had “I do not see species, I just see genus”. I took that line out but kept the picture because I thought it was cool looking.
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It’s a good picture. But I thought the post was going to be about physical antropology or scientific racism.
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@nitou: racial bias is the definiton of racism. racist does not only mean white supremacist. there are also lower levels of it, but it’s racism just the same. it’s not that i’m ignorant of stereotypes, I just don’t employ them. It’s easy for me, not something I force onto myself, because I’m not like any stereotype, so who am I to assume that other people fit neatly into any box? Even if someone appears to be like a stereotype, you can’t hold that judgement with much weight, when you don’t really, REALLY know them. and the bias you said IS racism, since racial bias = racism. and by what you interpreted abagond is saying, it’s bad to be color-blind because everyone is racist, but color-blind people just keep their racism within? because that makes lots of sense. you’re acting like it’s some revolutionary concept for people to treat each other like individuals
@thordaddy: I’m not forcing myself to be colorblind. In all honesty, I’ve never been racist. It would be a delusion for me to pretend I’m racist. It just doesn’t seem rational to me.. I can’t wrap my head around living that way, thankfully. my parents are generally tolerant of other people, unless someone mistreats them, but sometimes are racially biased (aka racist), and I call them out for it. it’s usually with my mom, who occasionally makes generalizations, like assuming all white people are “x”, or mexicans are “y”. I try to explain the hypocrisy, like how she wouldn’t want someone to automatically associate her with some random, negative, stereotype about black people, that doesn’t even apply to her. so how could she think some random stereotype about another “race” would always be applicable? Anyways, with the last thing you said, why would color-blind people be self-annihilators? I’m destroying myself because I treat people with individuals? What kind of f***ed up logic is that? I don’t get why you people here are so against this concept. Would you rather people be stereotypical? just because you’re not able to be color-blind doesn’t mean nobody can.
@Mel: Totally agree with you
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Lola,
You’re racking your brain trying to figure out things that abagond has merely adopted from his intellectual mentors. When he tells us that he is reading and thus learning to embrace the truths of the Bible, we can see that he is receptive to religions that teach mans’ inherently sinful nature. When we think of the black liberationist, he is JUSTIFIED by the inherent “racism” of the “white man.” We can see an overlap between black liberation theology’s notion of the eternally guilty white “racist” and Christianity’s notion of original sin inherent to man.
In short, when any “white” person claims to “see no color,” he is a liar because he is, as a “white man,” inherently “racist.”
This is what abagond “believes” and preaches. Simply swallow it and accept it for what it really is.
You know what it really is, no?
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@abagond: being color-blind isn’t synonymous with being ignorant about the world. that’s just silly. and internalized racism is racism just the same, and you can’t be racist and truly color-blind at the same time. my personal philosophy is to be color-blind, though I acknowledge most people don’t truly have that stance nowadays. I’m not blind about the racism that still occurs in this society. I just don’t let it affect my view of every single person of a certain “race”. to me, that is ignorance. it’s ignorant to believe “because this white person is “x”, this other white person must be “x” as well”. as long as people are pre-occupied about race, there will always be racism. if everyone was color-blind, it won’t mean that no discrimination will occur, but that the discrimination wouldn’t occur because of race. accepting race is easy. accepting someone with a culture you really don’t agree with is harder.
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@thordaddy: “Seeing no color” is a metaphor for accepting people, regardless of race. it doesn’t mean you literally can’t tell someone’s skin color. you just regard it as unimportant. how many times do I have to repeat this basic concept. so other races can be color-blind, but not white people? because every single white person on this earth is racist? You’re seeming like the ignorant, racist one to me, by spouting these generalizations.
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Dee,
I didn’t actually say YOU were colorblind.
The substantive point of this post is that the white liberal who claims to be colorblind is actually a liar and inherently racist.
This is abagond’s belief.
First, with such beliefs, it is silly for you to believe that you have some duty to be “colorblind” as it will not cleanse you of your inherent racism as a white person as seen through the eyes of an abagond. It is also silly to suggest that one can become “colorblind” in some natural fashion. One has to intellectually define “colorblindness” and then proceed to act out this definition. The idea that skin color means NOTHING (colorblindness) is self-evidently false. Skin color, in the least, MEANS one is a certain color and this has a material foundation (which means something. And skin color can also certainly suggest other things such as relatedness, geographic origin, compatibility, possible threat, etc.
Those white people who claim to be “colorblind” are, by definition, ideological liberals. To be truly “colorblind,” they must apply the liberal values of nondiscrimination and tolerance to their EVERY ACT AND THOUGHT. The application of these values define the liberal. But the consistent application of these values leads to self-annihilation.
An all-accepting indiscriminancy (tolerance plus nondiscrimination) is the surest path to self-annihilation. “Colorblindess” is evidence of one’s all-accepting indiscriminancy and evidence that one is on a path to self-annihilation.
Even abagond knows that “colorblindess” is a deadly idea.
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Dee,
For some reason I assumed you to be a white liberal. It seems that you are actually a black liberal far less along in the logic of your liberalism than abagond.
No one says that a person can’t be “colorblind” if they attempt to do so. But it does not come natural. It is most definitely learned. The idea of treating EVERYONE as INDIVIDUALS is both meaningless and impossible to do consistently unless one is totally inhuman.
What does it mean to treat your mom as an
“individual.”
“Colorblindness” isn’t just treating everyone as individuals but it is also saying one’s physical skin color MEANS NOTHING.
In this, you can see the battle between the different degrees of black liberationist.
While you attempt to practice the first notion of “colorblindness,” abagond rejects it. And while you say skin color means nothing, abagond says white skin color makes one inherently “racist” even if they attest to being “colorblind.”
At the end of the day, both of you are doing what you believe maximizes your personal autonomy.
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@Dee Some time ago during my online discussions, it occurred to me that my own perspective is a Western perspective. Not only that, but it is virtually the only perspective I have. Things that you might assume to be innate and unconditioned, such as the perception of pain, may be more influenced by culture than you imagine. It is fair to conclude that my “Western” perspective is also a white perspective. That is what I am hearing from Agabond and others. I see where he is coming from with his essay on colorblindeness as it correlates with my own experience. It isn’t so much about stereotyping people as it is about the assumption that my own perspective as a Western white person is the norm or “reality.”
I have started reading the book Mis-Education of the Negro by Carter G. Woodson, which was first published in 1933. Despite the passage of time and the civil rights movement, some things the Woodson says are the same as contemporary writing in African-American study. (One modern scholar is Manu Ampim. He has done much research and teaching to try to recover the lost African identity.) Woodson describes how black people of his time would go to college and obtain advanced degrees, but when they came out they were less competent than before because they had been so thoroughly conditioned to look down on themselves. Is it still happening? Well… I have reason to believe it is.
@thordaddy I am not Christian, but I have come to similar conclusions about the inherent “sin” nature of mankind. Biology, history and psychology seem to point to the truth of the concept also.
I am not sure what you mean by this:
“Those white people who claim to be “colorblind” are, by definition, ideological liberals. To be truly “colorblind,” they must apply the liberal values of nondiscrimination and tolerance to their EVERY ACT AND THOUGHT. The application of these values define the liberal. But the consistent application of these values leads to self-annihilation.
An all-accepting indiscriminancy (tolerance plus nondiscrimination) is the surest path to self-annihilation. “Colorblindess” is evidence of one’s all-accepting indiscriminancy and evidence that one is on a path to self-annihilation.”
And then, “At the end of the day, both of you are doing what you believe maximizes your personal autonomy.”
It sounds to me like you are describing the type of self-annihilation that is sought after by Buddhists…? I don’t follow. Interesting point too, about the meaninglessness of treating someone as an “individual.” That in itself seems like a Western attitude, though ultimately everything you perceive is a reflection of yourself.
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@thordaddy: “The idea of treating EVERYONE as INDIVIDUALS is both meaningless and impossible to do consistently unless one is totally inhuman.
What does it mean to treat your mom as an
“individual.””
I find this approach very meaningful and practice it everyday in my life. And yes, my mother IS an individual, just like my old man, brother, sister, cousins, any relatives I have and all my friends and even you. There is not another you nowhere and that makes you an individual. You are just you, nothing more, nothing less. But only you and nothing more.
Well what does it mean to treat ones mother as an individual? It means recognizing her as a whole person, recognizing her as some one with unique qualities and abilities, weaknesses and such. She is not part of you, nobodys property, or part of something, but her own person. That is all. Not so difficult, is it?
You can see everyone as individuals if you want. I have no super human powers but I have learned, the hard way and the soft way, that people really are individuals. For different reasons they tend to be bunched up by different standards and cathegories, which usually are lot of bullssssst. In most cases seeing people as groups and masses comes from different power structures and such for whom it is easier treat people as non individuals, like cows or such.
I simply refuse to do that. Why? Because during my travelling years I learned that while there are lot of A holes and Bstards every where, there are good guys and women also every where. Among the most despicable bunch of guys there may be a one really great guy, an individual. Among the most dispised group of women there might be one who is really great person, an individual. And when you meet some one, face to face, one on one, that person will be no longer an example of some imagined group but an individual with his/hers unique thoughts, ideas, voice, looks etc.
And once you realise that, you realise that people who do not look the same as you, do not actually look like anybody else. Outside some really freaky twins, there are no two humans who look the same. There are no three, four or five blacks who look the same, whose voice is the same, whose thoughts are the same, nor there are any more whites. Totalitarian idealists may want to believe that, hope for it, but no. It is just a dream, dreadful dream too. I am very happy we are all different unique individuals, just like you and me.
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Nitou,
A certain collective of white male has taken the idea of liberation to its logical extreme. Total liberation. Final liberation. Because this idea of final liberation is merely a sense of “things,” the liberal paradigm is entirely material and thus the drive towards final liberation is a zero-sum game. In other words, more freedom for me equals less freedom for you. But how liberated can one FEEL if he is always battling to be more free and is constantly under threat of losing some of his freedom? The radical liberal wants absolute freedom NOW. So what does he do? He embraces the antithesis of “fighting for freedom.” He exalts the idea of nondiscrimination and tolerance and seeks to live by those values consistently. In short, he has chosen the path of self-annihilation. He absolutely will not fight for his freedom. He will resign himself to the fact that in a strictly material world, only death gives one true final liberation.
In fact, self-annihilation is the truest act of the genuine liberationist. It is the most radical liberal act. A life lived absolutely indiscriminately and totally tolerant is a life purposely short-lived.
Freedom NOW!
And so Abagond is a black liberationist in the sense that his final liberation is tied directly into the total self-annihilation of the white man.
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@thordaddy:
“He embraces the antithesis of “fighting for freedom.” He exalts the idea of nondiscrimination and tolerance and seeks to live by those values consistently. In short, he has chosen the path of self-annihilation. He absolutely will not fight for his freedom. He will resign himself to the fact that in a strictly material world, only death gives one true final liberation.
In fact, self-annihilation is the truest act of the genuine liberationist. It is the most radical liberal act. A life lived absolutely indiscriminately and totally tolerant is a life purposely short-lived.”
Self annihilation? Anthesis for fighting for freedom? Where do you get that? I have never been on the road to self annihilation. I have always been ready to fight for freedom and liberation, my personal freedom included. I think the problem here is that you have different concept of freedom. I have no clue what it means to you, but for me it is about life and living it, not to die. Also, if your world is just materialistic, you will never even taste freedom nor you will ever understand what it is and how it feels.
I do not know what is your political stance, but you sound a lot like all those poor pawns who follow the loudest piper to the ends of the world and beyond, if only the tune looks and sounds good. It looks like that for you liberation is something scary and destructive, that real freedom is a thing to be affraid of. I’m not sure, looks like it. After all, you equal it with death.
Yes, freedom is scary because once you free yourself, there is no one to blame on ones own actions. With freedom comes heavy responsibility. You are the one who answers. No more excuses. No more scapegoats. No more explanations. That is why most of us humans are affraid of true freedom. That is why it so scary to care for others. If you help your fellowman and things go wrong, it is your fault. If you stand beside someone in need, you face the same troubles yourself too. That is why most people will close their door, run to the hills and hide in their personal spiritual and mental bunkers.
As long as you keep yourself locked inside the Fear of Freedom and abhorr liberation, you peek outside world from your prison and feel scared and treathened. It is in your own mind. The prison. Prison of fears, mistrust, paranoia, suspicion, all those wonderful things that all extremists love so dearly. And why is that? Because when you are scared, when you are affraid, you are easier to control and command. You will run with anybody as long as it makes you feel secure. You will do anything to feel safe; blame blacks, hispanics, strangers, queers, gays, jews, somenody, anybody else basically. That is how it works.
Once you free your self, there is no one else. You are outside the box. You have to stand on your own feet. All you have is some very few others who have done the same thing. But you will face the society and its social constructions, social Musts, rules and regulations, the ones who enforce them and most of all, you will face all those people who are scared of your freedom because you remind them that it is possible to be free. They hate themselves because they can not step outside and see it with their own eyes, so they hate you for making them know that they are cowards and small and weak. That is why they gang up with those who hold the power and try to crush you. The thing is, they no longer can. You have set yourself free and they have no way of locking your mind and soul up again.
Many men and women who have spent long times in prisons and isolation because of their beliefs and their commitment for freedom have said that their enemies never understand the simple fact that what ever they can do to the body, they will never be able to prison the soul. And that, my friend, is what Freedom is all about.
And just to make things clear, yes, I have served in the military, so no running from there either.
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Oh great, These blogs are meant to show that whites are racist and yet they are among the most racist blogs I’ve ever seen.
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abagond
You are the most racist person I’ve even HEARD about and a hypocrite. What is worse, you actually try to justify your racism. Are you one of those people who believe that only whites can be racist?
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I think almost everyone in America is racist or prejudiced regardless of their race. It is too much a part of the culture. People of colour, though, are not racist in the same way whites are. For example:
Why do you say I am racist?
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Abagond
I think you are racist because you seem to think that race defines everything a person is and that is just something I do not agree with. Yes, you may not think it is possible to be truly colorblind but it’s not really implying that people don’t see that you are of a certain race, just that you should be treated as an equal regardless of race. And no, black racism may not be the same as white racism but I am of the opinion that assuming anything about any race is wrong. And this is coming from someone who was raised by a stepfather whose almost entire family are white supremists. I judge people solely by character.
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I’m sorry if I sound whiny or offensive but I’m tired of being regarded as inherently racist because of the color of my skin. I’m not perfect in any way but I do accept everyone as human, unless they do something that takes away their human status, like kill someone in cold blood or a rapist or child molestor because in my eyes, that is not something a human being does. But I never judge by color. If you see a white cat, black cat, gray cat, orange cat, how many people think of color first? My first thought is “Oh look, it’s a cat” if I think anything at all. I don’t think one color is superior over the other. I am the same way with all people. (Not in thinking people are cats but you get the general idea). You may think I’m lying and I’m sorry if you do but I can’t change how I feel.
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@Kanna-Chan:
‘But I never judge by color. If you see a white cat, black cat, gray cat, orange cat, how many people think of color first? My first thought is “Oh look, it’s a cat…”
—–
Since you say you are not racist and do not see color, could you date or marry a woman or man (depending on your gender) who happens to be black? If so, would you proudly introduce him/her to your colleagues, friends and family? Could you love and embrace bi-racial kids who could possibly look more like their black parent than you? Also, do you have black friends who you invite into your home, and vice versa? Just curious.
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Nom De Plume
Yes actually I would. Though I’ve never dated anyone, my cousin is married to a black man and has three kids and I love those kids like they were my own.
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@Kanna-Chan;
Okay.
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@Abagond. I understand your point. When people deny your race, it’s like they’re dismissing and denying you.
I don’t agree with colorblindness. I was merely stating that maybe these people who believe in colorblindness are naive rather than racist.
Also, I always feel that people who wear their race on their sleeves are racially insecure. It always seems that you’re looking for racial validation or acceptance. I don’t identify myself by my race when I feel it unnecessary. Ppl can see I am black, and I don’t feel inferior, etc about being black, so I don’t feel the need to point out to anyone that I am black.
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“I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.” -Harriet Tubman (1822-1913)
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@nom de plume: you’re speechless at the fact that kanna-chan didn’t fall into your trap
@abagond: just because you can’t stop yourself from being prejudiced/racist doesn’t mean that there aren’t others that can. colorblindness is the solution to racism. if you believe that everyone is racist, and nobody can change, then why do you run this blog, when according to your own logic, it won’t affect anything? blacks can be just as racist as whites. the fact that whites have a lot more power to do racist things doesn’t make them more racist. that’s like saying a billionaire who gives the majority of his earnings to charity is better than a poor person who does the same
@nitou: how does being colorblind translate to white people being the “norm”, or “reality”? I don’t understand where you’re going with that. I don’t understand the other thing you said, either, about black people going to college and losing their self esteem, or something. my dad has a PhD from a top british school, where he was the only African in his class, and he’s just fine. yeah there was racism at the time, in Chelsea (London) during the 1980s, but that didn’t mean it would cause him to look down on himself. why would he look down on himself when he was at the top of his class? when he had got a fully paid scholarship, because he was the top student in his region (in cameroon)? my dad is one of the most hard working people I know. he doesn’t get tied down by trivial things.
@thordaddy: funny how your post changed once you realized I was black. anyways, it is natural to be colorblind. “race” is learned. and people LEARN to hate others for their races. I don’t understand why you think it’s such a strange concept to treat others as individuals in their own rites. can you think of anyone 100% like you? I surely can’t think of anyone 100% like me, so who am I to think it’s the case with other people? That would be illogicial. Treating my mom like and individual means that I see her for her, and don’t assume that she’s just like my grandmother, just another person who’s black, just like another nurse, etc. that’s all it means to treat people like individuals. and even once you’re getting to know them, you try to be open minded, because you still don’t know them very well. it makes sense to me because that’s how I’d like to be treated. nobody likes when others are judgemental, because it means they’re assuming, often assuming wrongly, without knowing the full story
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nobody has explained how being color blind is such a catastrophe. it’s funny. throughout american history, if there hadn’t been anyone looking beyond race, perhaps black people would still be slaves. look beyond race to see that we’re all just people, regardless of differences in appearance.
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People who claim that ignoring their skin color is ignoring their humanity are themselves racist, and probably ego-centric since they personally define whatever racial group they happen to be a part of. It doesn’t accur to them that their racial grouping might have variety, its just “themselves”.
In a world of diversity; even black people see themselves as black people, your always going to be aware of race on some level.
Excepting living in a world or region that lacks any kind of racial diversity.
Color and cats; of course most people see a cats color, if you see an orange cat you will notice it. Their is nothing “wrong” with noticing someone’s skin color, unless you have a racial bias against that color it doesn’t matter anymore than noticing a cats fur is orange.
Its pretty much like Abagond said in this post, not seeing color implies that something might be “wrong” with color.
If their’s nothing wrong with color, than why is it a bad thing to notice it?
Its like noticing if someone has short or long hair, or whatever style.
As for Abagonds race; I don’t know, they mention that basically most Africans have some kind of race mixing going on in the US but isn’t Abagond from the West Indies?
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@dee
it’s funny. throughout american history, if there hadn’t been anyone looking beyond race, perhaps black people would still be slaves.
Perhaps people realised that ‘slaves’ were merely human beings after all….
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V-4
but isn’t Abagond from the West Indies?
A part of the world where significant colonial rule, influence and interbreeding therein reigned…
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Dee,
Nothing changed about my response to you once your race was defined.
The simple fact is that you are largely motivated by your race to embrace your certain kind of radical liberalism.
A white liberal does not embrace “colorblindness” for the same reason that a black liberal necessarily would.
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Perhaps the issue here is What meaning does one give to the color of another humanbeing, if at all? Also, what role does ones backround play on that?
In USA race is an issue. It is an issue because in every official form you must fill, they ask your race, defenition by skin color and/or ethnicity. Why? That speaks in volumes.
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sam
Yes, I agree. Why SHOULD race even be an issue? A person’s race should have nothing to do about if they are a good person or not. Otherwise you wouldn’t be a good person, you’d just be “good” to that certain race.
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I don’t try to be anything I am not. I am not proud to be white, indian, black, hispanic, or Asian. I am proud to just be ME. And I don’t like being associated with other individuals just because we share common physical traits, traits that we can’t help being born with.
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I think many of the people on here are taking the term “colorblindness” a bit too literally. Of course people can see what color your skin is, you’d have to be blind not to, but when they say they are color-blind, they are actually saying that to them, skin color has nothing to do with their worth as a human being. They don’t see their race as being what defines them but rather their personalities.
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Beautiful post. I’ve always felt this way.
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The problem is; that doesn’t get around the fact that they don’t see race.
The ol “I don’t see you as a black man, just a man” bit.
But unless there is something wrong being black, why shouldn’t they see them as a black man?
When they say they are color-blind, they mean they value them as a person “despite” their skin color, not regardless of.
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“when they say they are color-blind, they are actually saying that to them, skin color has nothing to do with their worth as a human being. They don’t see their race as being what defines them but rather their personalities.” — Kanna -Chan
EXACTLY.
If someone said to me “I don’t see a fat, white woman, I just see a person.” I wouldn’t be offended by it. Because my weight, gender, and ethnicity don’t affect who I am as a person. My personality is who I am. Not anything else. Not how I look.
Of course I notice skin color. Everyone does. But it doesn’t change who you are as a person.
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@Alex:
If someone said to me “I don’t see a fat, white woman, I just see a person.” I wouldn’t be offended by it. Because my weight, gender, and ethnicity don’t affect who I am as a person. My personality is who I am. Not anything else. Not how I look.
—-
Chances are, if you are “a fat white woman,” as you put it, society at large WILL “just see a person.” People of color do not always have this luxury. Weight, gender and color may not affect who a person is, but they certainly can affect society’s perception and treatment the person. I have been around people who often say things like, “that Hispanic guy” or “this Asian kid.” Why can’t they just say “that guy” or “this kid?” When they refer to people of their own ethnicity they will say ‘that guy” and “this kid.” I could understand if they were asked to describe the guy or the kid, or if there was a legitimate need to make such a description. Oftentimes there is not. I hear this type of thing a lot, especially at work. It just rolls right off the tongue like water off a duck’s back. The people who use these colorful (pun intended) adjectives are probably the very ones would swear they ‘don’t see color.’
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@Alex
In a perfect world skin color wouldn’t matter, but this is reality. Skin color matters. This society values white skin like it values money and material things. At the same time the same society devalues dark skin for no logical reason. Yet, they devalue it so much, they even try to turn it into a legitimate science.
I don’t want to see my color as a factor that defines who I am as an individual person, but this country constantly tries to define who I am for me, and usually it’s a negative definition. This is what POC have to deal with every freakin day. And we are not to blame for this crap.
I know that I am a black man, but the truth is in this country I am a black man first and a human being second or last. I didn’t ask to be seen this way, but that’s the way it is. So, I and anyone else tired of being told the same stuff over and over have the right to say something about it.
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I am proud of my Italian heritage, but I guess the execs of motown didn’t want the lead in this movie to be proud of his so they omitted his last name. “But black people need to feel proud, so who cares about this nice mans ITALian roots” right hypocrites
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and by the way there are more attacks on italian americans than any other whites who have been here for generations
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@ Dave
Taimak Guarriello is seen as a black man to whites in America anyway. The same thing would be true if he were in Italy. Don’t complain now that the “One Drop Rule” works against you. The rest of your post is just another overly emotional white strawman.
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@Franklin to me he is a hero, so you are wrong
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Ok Franklin I’M JUST another emotional WHITE strawman….and you are the crow. But if you look at my first sentence in THIS post focus on the capitals. To you I’m just white. Which it seems to me you think is beneath you. Don’t underestimate your opponent.
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@ Dave
You clearly don’t know what a strawman is, seeing as how you thought I was calling you one. And then continued to dish out another one. You’re not my opponent, btw. You’re a white that I don’t think of, or approach in a hostile manner. Rather, one that needs to be educated on a point of view that lies outside of his comfortable anti-logic bubble. Education that is deflected by your constant unwillingness to learn.
That……wasn’t even a proper response to what I said.
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brothawolf says,
@Alex
when they say they are color-blind, they are actually saying that to them, skin color has nothing to do with their worth as a human being. They don’t see their race as being what defines them but rather their personalities.
In a perfect world skin color wouldn’t matter, but this is reality. Skin color matters. This society values white skin like it values money and material things. At the same time the same society devalues dark skin for no logical reason. Yet, they devalue it so much, they even try to turn it into a legitimate science.
I don’t want to see my color as a factor that defines who I am as an individual person, but this country constantly tries to define who I am for me, and usually it’s a negative definition. This is what POC have to deal with every freakin day. And we are not to blame for this crap.
I know that I am a black man, but the truth is in this country I am a black man first and a human being second or last. I didn’t ask to be seen this way, but that’s the way it is. So, I and anyone else tired of being told the same stuff over and over have the right to say something about it
laromana says,
Thanks for your excellent/concise response to NON-BLACK Americans who don’t seem to understand/accept the dynamics of race in America and how it bestows UNEARNED privileges on some, BASED SOLELY ON THEIR RACE, while granting others UNEARNED DISADVANTAGES, BASED SOLELY ON THEIR RACE.
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This is the truth.
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and by the way there are more attacks on italian americans than any other whites who have been here for generations
Italians aren’t as ‘white’ as you think they are.
http://www.italianrap.com/italam/italam_race.html
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You are a great writer and I love this post. I was in a shocking situation yesterday where I heard my boss use the n-word while chatting casually with a friend on the phone. When I called him out on it, I could not believe the tirade of excuses that followed his apology – including “I do not see colour,” as a means to emphasize that he is not racist. I encourage everyone around me to see colour. Posts like yours will help me be better equipped to respond when I’m put in this situation again. Because, as much as I’d like to hope that I won’t be in this place again, I probably will be. One love!
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Are these naked bodies as raw images leading the viewers to the concept of romantic love or what? When people see naked bodies they might not see color as much. Is that a rational reaction or an instinctual one?
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I did not read many of these but the I don’t see “Color” spell it correctly, I see a human being says just what it says and it’s not racist and if you think it is you must be racist …. f__ing idiots
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Reblogged this on The Racist and Unoriginal Anglo-American Entertainment Industry and commented:
…………………………………..
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I know racists love to say that ish and be the first one to treat people differently based on color.
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I just disagree in general with someone deciding that they aren’t racist. That’s not for you to decide. Its for others to decide based on your behavior.
It’s like any other quality you don’t have to declare, like: I have class or I’m smart. People with class or intelligence don’t need to state it and if you aren’t a racist, then there’s no need to cry it at the first PoC you meet.
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Teddy
Mulatto, means something like person who is black by the one drop rule, with 50% or more of “white” ancestry.
A mulatto is someone with one white parent and one black parent.
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I’m sorry if I sound whiny or offensive but I’m tired of being regarded as inherently racist because of the color of my skin.
Noone regards u as inherently racist because of the color of ur skin. It’s more how u treat people around u based on the color of THEIR skin..
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@abagond: just because you can’t stop yourself from being prejudiced/racist doesn’t mean that there aren’t others that can. colorblindness is the solution to racism. if you believe that everyone is racist, and nobody can change, then why do you run this blog, when according to your own logic, it won’t affect anything? blacks can be just as racist as whites. the fact that whites have a lot more power to do racist things doesn’t make them more racist. that’s like saying a billionaire who gives the majority of his earnings to charity is better than a poor person who does the same
U feel whites should be exempt from being held accountable for the institutionalized racism they impose on the masses and benefit from. Whites r not more racist then blacks? Let white people know that blacks will have access to everything whites have access to in this nation, no the world, and get back to me. This is why ur “color-blind” B.S. is just that, B.S. This is just another way to wipe away the long and sordid history of white supremacy and not have to hold any whites accountable for it.Color-blind…Yeah, ok.
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Kanna-Chan
Abagond
I think you are racist because you seem to think that race defines everything a person is and that is just something I do not agree with. Yes, you may not think it is possible to be truly colorblind but it’s not really implying that people don’t see that you are of a certain race, just that you should be treated as an equal regardless of race. And no, black racism may not be the same as white racism but I am of the opinion that assuming anything about any race is wrong. And this is coming from someone who was raised by a stepfather whose almost entire family are white supremists. I judge people solely by character.
DDC:
Do U? If u can judge Agabond to be “racist” because he seems to think that race defines everything a person is but u cannot indict the white supremacist power structure that judges and values people based on their skin color then that is completely illogical. When was the last time u have been profiled by law enforcement? The last time u were followed around a store by security? Denied housing because the area u would like to live in has been deemed to good for u to live in by people who don’t even know u? Or neglected in a restaurant because hey, ur just a ______. and the waiter feels that oh, u cannot differentiate between good or bad service.We live in a society where people do what ur accusing Agabond of everyday. u don’t have to notice it because u r not being victimized by it. But the next time u admonish black people for whining about racism, come back here and read ur own post. K?
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@Deepdchocolate
I don’t think being colorblind is a solution to racism. We live in a racist society where race and class is essential to the hierarchy of this nation and it has been like this since the founding of this country.
I am not defending racism at all. I am a young, Black female and I am against racism but not to the point that it consumes my life because I have many things I want to do in my life.
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This message is about White genocide.
The low world-wide White birthrate of perhaps 1.4 children per couple is in large part a result of demoralization and insecurity. When Whites once again feel in possession of their own societies and lives, births rate will go up.
Being taught since the first grade that one’s own race is bad has an inevitable effect on a person’s natural desire to have children, whether that connection is consciously felt or not.
If African countries suddenly had low birth rates, would you insist on flooding those African countries with non-Africans and forcing Africans to integrate with the non-Africans so as to “assimilate,” i.e. intermarry and be blended out of existence?
And if any African objected to that genocide of his people, would you tell him that the genocide of his people was justified because of history, karma or choice of low birth rate?
Why are Whites only targeted for this race replacement?
Its White genocide.
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When someone says “I don’t see color or I’m color blind.” There is something disingenuous about that statement. To me it means you really don’t see that person. Because their skin color is apart of who they are. That idiom is so annoying to me.
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I don’t see color means, to me, that I don’t see a stereotype. I notice features, but I don’t always see color. I am a white woman married to a black man. When we were dating, he said “as a black man…”. I said, “you’re black?” He said “what did you think I was?” I said “I never really thought about it.” Yes, he’s light-skinned, but I truly never really thought about it enough to label him with a color.
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Don’t forget to watch YT video ANTIRACIST HITLER before it is banned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lKDeyuM0-Og
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[…] will. Ist es nur mein privilegiertes Denken, das hier zum Ausdruck kommt, so wie manche Leute sagen “I don’t see color”, wenn es um Rassenfragen geht? Nur auf den ersten […]
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You have fans in Germany Abagond, either that it’s sam! Oh, I forgot, sam is Finnish. Are you conversant in German sam?
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If African countries suddenly had low birth rates, would you insist on flooding those African countries with non-Africans and forcing Africans to integrate with the non-Africans so as to “assimilate,” i.e. intermarry and be blended out of existence?
Would you rather not exist at all or exist in a slightly diluted form? Most people would choose the latter.
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@herneith:
Enshuldigen Sie, aber Nein. Sorry, no. I do not speak german nor I can read it. I know few words, too few to manage it.
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Anti-racist Hitler??? Not even Monty Python came up with that one! That is friggin hilarious. What next? Catholic popes for abortion? Chinese military for the liberation of Tibet? KKK for gay rights? Al-Qaida for world peace?
I know thing are not simple and clear cut but when you call a guy whose all beliefs, his politics, his view of the world and history, his every action and desicion was based on racism, I think that is a bit of stretch.
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@savethechildren:
“The low world-wide White birthrate of perhaps 1.4 children per couple is in large part a result of demoralization and insecurity.”
Erh… Not.
According to every single study for the last 45 years, the birth rate is fixed on the standard of living. The more higher the living standard, the lower the birth rate. The reason why so-called developing or third world countries have such a hiugh birth rate is because in those societies the family is your only protection and security, social wellfare and pension. If you look at Italy, catholic country if any, their birth rate has plummeted to the lowest leves with the same speed as the poverty. It is undeniable fact. Fear has nothing to do with the lower birth rate, it is the opposite if anything.
“Why are Whites only targeted for this race replacement?”
What race replacement? There is only one human race on this planet biologically. The race is in your head, not in your body. Besides, you do know what too much inbreeding causes to any spieces, right?
“Its White genocide.”
No it is not. Study evolution. You might learn something from it. What is happening is only natural development in the history of a humanbeign.
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I can see why the phrase ” I dont see colour, I just see a human being” can be potentially interpreted as racist, It definitely can sound like the speaker is trying to overlook something he interprets as wrong.
Would this phrase be received more positively if it was changed to ” I dont see colour, I only see individuals”? To be treated as an individual is ultimately what everyone wants. Its something white privilege already grants to all who fall under its umbrella of protection, and denies to those who do not.
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@JL
”I can see why the phrase ” I dont see colour, I just see a human being” can be potentially interpreted as racist, It definitely can sound like the speaker is trying to overlook something he interprets as wrong.”
Well said and I wonder why many Whites don’t see anything wrong with this phrase. Most of them already hide their racism enough but is this another phrase to hide that they think there is something wrong with somebody’s skin being darker than theirs? .
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Sam
“Don’t forget to watch YT video ANTIRACIST HITLER before it is banned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lKDeyuM0-Og”
So did you watch it? When you do, we can discuss it.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white
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Sam,
Low birth rate may be correlated with living standard. You are merely justifying it. Justifying the genocide of a race is not nice.
When you look at immigration. you only see White countries targeted with massive numbers of invaders that are of a different race. You don’t see Asia flooded with non-asians or Africa flooded with non-africans.
Saying there is only one race is just a cover-up.
What we see with White genocide is not a natural process but the application of force to blend Whites out of existence. To say its evolution just show us how lost you are to human values and morals.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white.
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What “racism?” What “white privilege?” Only words designed to assault White people. Its all about word weaponization in service to White genocide.
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@savethechildren
It’s sad that you are unable to come to terms with your own internalized bigotry. I can understand someone who is a bigot and says it proudly. Someone like you only deserves pity.
Would you rather not exist at all or exist in a slightly diluted form? Most people would choose the latter.
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Its funny because you talk so self-righteously. Does it make you feel good to think you are superior to others?
Yes, you are a deployer of racial slurs as a form of leverage over the acts of others (White people). So anti-white.
The R word is a powerful social control tool designed, created by anti-racists to stop Whites from fighting for their own survival.
So survival, fighting for the survival of one’s race is bigotry? You are dishonest or stupid.
This is what we have:
White countries flooded by non-whites.Whites are told be TOLERANT.Whites are forced to integrate.With assimilation we see the extinction of the White race.
Its all about White genocide
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wow. White countries flooded by non whites, lol. A lot of those “white countries” were once people of color countries, o but a lot of us forget that since they wiped out all or most indigenous people. How can people rant about take our country back when it was never theirs in the first place. Places like Africa are being flooded and drained by whites and asians all the time, but the moment a “white” country is flooded with people of color its a problem. hey i’m not too happy about integration either, because of it we are forced to learn whitewashed history, and less about our own history just once a year.
“whites are told to be tolerant”
And blacks are told to sing kumbaya and we will overcome, and not take things into our own hands.
“with assimilation we see the extinction of the white race. Its all about white genocide”
Lol. Well this genocide you speak of is because of white greed. Tell that to the white companies sending jobs overseas and putting gmo’s in your food. That sure as hell isn’t black people putting that stuff in your food and putting fluoride in your water and toothpaste.
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So you are more than willing to justify the genocide of White people who never did you any harm and very likely benefited you greatly. You might have a moral problem.
“Common sense statement:
ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!
Nobody argues that Asia is not for Asians or that Africa is for Africans. Why then do anti-whites argue that White countries are NOT for White people?
What we have is: White countries flooded by non-whites.Whites are told be TOLERANT.Whites are forced to integrate.With assimilation we see the extinction of the White race.
Its about White genocide.”
Obviously you are anti-white. I’m not likely to change that.
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@ savethechildren
So what gives whites the right to leave their continent and take over Australia and the Americas? Shouldn’t they go back to Europe and stay there?
And why is being tolerant such a terrible burden? Is it that hard for whites to act like semi-decent human beings?
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Rofl. Im not anti white, just pro black. I don’t care if white people are pro white just as long as they don’t hurt other people which is what they have done. I don’t care about white countries I don’t want to visit them or flood them lol.
Where do I benefit greatly from white people? So all of a sudden blacks are supposed to care about whites so called genocide, we have our own issues to worry about. Whites have never cared about black,brown,or red genocide, but we are all supposed to care about white genocide. Gun control for example was what blacks wanted when mlk, Malcolm x and other civil rights activists were killed, but nobody listened. Now fast forward and its whites killing young white kids now they want to pass gun control laws.
People really need to stop the I didn’t do anything it was whites in the past that did it bs because these are the same people that believe in the bible yet don’t want to hear the truth,even in the bible it says curses will be brought to the third and fourth generations. God punished people’s offspring for their disobedience. Its ok for everyone else to have to deal with those consequences from the previous generations but not whites.
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I think this statement is just a cowardly way for white people that are uncomfortable with discussing race. It probably is an excuse for some white people to be in denial about their own racism. Some and I say some not all. But a great many white people don’t want to the work of reflection and introspection. How many have actually been honest with themselves about certain perceptions and misconceptions they have about black people and other non white people. A lot of white people believe stereotypes about black people and other non white people. Instead of getting to know if these stereotypes and misconceptions are true.
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I also like what Kartina Richarson says in respect to this subject. ” In order to see a person you must see the truth of their pain. If You deny their pain, you refuse to see them. This is what makes black people invisible. And black invisibility is what makes white pain invisible to black people”. This is an addendum to the “I don’t see color just a human being”. It is such horse manure in my opinion.
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“Would you rather not exist at all or exist in a slightly diluted form? Most people would choose the latter.”
– – –
I was just wondering about this….
It seems to me that the more rabidly racist ones would actually rather not have any descendants at all (which would amount to an actual ‘end of the line’ for their own genome) than to have offspring with someone of another ‘race’. And, what’s more, I do believe that some of this type would actually consider an unrelated white hobo off the street more genetically related to them than any potential mixed race offspring of theirs could ever be.
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[…] I don’t see colour, I just see a human being, Abagond: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/i-dont-see-colour-i-just-see-a-human-being/ […]
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[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/i-dont-see-colour-i-just-see-a-human-being/ […]
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I dont understad this, if you say “I don’t see colour, I just see a human being. That means that we the same in humans. Im for the Nederlands Amsterdam, i dont look to the color i look to the human what for person you are, what your story is and tour feelings. it pains me that people can not stop looking differences. We all poeple. And i say this from the bodem of my heart love for everyboden and peace.
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@Peace,
Abagond explained it in his last paragraph.
Let’s hypothetically assume that you were Dutch. Let’s say you went and lived in the USA.If an American told you that he thought that he did not even see you as Dutch or as a foreigner. It will feel strange. Maybe you might think – “What’s wrong with being Dutch?” – You might want to feel perfectly happy or at ease with being Dutch – being told that he doesn’t even think of you as being Dutch does not make you feel good about who you are.
Let’s say on top of that, you know that that American despises (or at least doesn’t care for) foreigners, esp. Europeans, and esp. those from the Netherlands. Now how does that make you feel? That there used to be something wrong with you, but now he is willing to overlook that. Not only that, by overlooking it in you, his distaste for Dutch people stays right in check, with no change.
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jefe, what you mean to say, is that overlooking differences and prejudices is bad?!?!?
You plainly assume that Americans got a distate for certain groups of people, which is a racist prejudice by itself. If you want to generalize 316 million people in such a way, then I do not know what to think of you.
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I meant “distaste.”
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@ Jeff,
I think the message got misunderstood.
I never stated or meant that the prerequisite for “overlooking differences or prejudice” to have a negative connotation was a “distaste for certain groups”. It is not a necessary condition.
If there is nothing wrong with a difference, there is no need to overlook it.
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Thanks!
If I understand your explanation well, you mean to say that people saying “I don’t see color” equal teachers who say “I don’t see fat, uninterested, pimpled brats; I see students I have to prepare for their future!”
Whatever I think of your explanation (I myself can think of two or three other interpretations), it convinces me that “I do not see color” is not the best way to say “I am not racist.”
If I did not translate your words well, please feel free to correct me.
All the best,
Jeff
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oh it is a beautiful post. How nice ‘i don’t see color, I just see a human being” this dialog. I also think color is not a factor, humanity is first. But color is a satisfactory matter in our daily life. so i think color choosing in every work is a satisfactory subject in human life. Thanks for this article. Tp be very smart in daily life you can read
online colour readings for satisfaction.
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The meaning depends heavily on the context.
There was a soccer referee at the FIFA World Cup, and you state: “I don’t see Nigerian or German soccer players; I see legs.” Then I cannot think of a racist context.
If some white person states “I know that 80% of the whites think that blacks like you are lazy, fat, violent good-for-nothings. But hey, not me!” Then it is both insulting for blacks and whites.
Anyway, Jefe is right when he says that the phrase shouldn’t be used.
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I have seen in television shows and books how white people deliberatly don’t notice a person’s skin colour (for example in a situation where they want to distinguish between a white and a non-white person, and avoid the obvious marker). Is that a joke or are there really white Americans who act like this?
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^ They don’t want to be seen as racist. (Ooh, the big ‘R’.) They tiptoe around it when it’s obvious there’s an elephant in the room.
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I got that. My question is if anybody has ever seen somebody act like that in real life.
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Of course! The most common experience I’ve had is when someone is trying to describe a person…
“You know… that girl, who sits by the water cooler.. and she’s about my height… curly hair… SUPER nice??/”
No… Wait, is she BLACK?
“Oh… yeah, well, I guess so!”
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@Kartoffel
It may have been presented as a joke on that TV episode, but no it is not a joke.
However, maybe that TV episode shows just how ridiculous they are.
OMG, yes. As Leigh204 told you, people tiptoe around colour markers as they were buried land mines.
Anyone educated after about 1985-1988 has been taught to use colour blind language.
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Is that a joke or are there really white Americans who act like this?
Yes, about 98% of them.
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I always challenge people that claim not to see the color or race/ethnicity of another person to tell me how they would describe an individual who just assaulted them or did something injurious to them. What do you say when asked what color the person was or what the race of the person was. Do you say “Oh, I don’t know because I don’t see color”?
Well, I see color because it’s impossible not to. Just like I see a blue sky or a green lawn, I see all of the beautiful colors found in the skin of humans. Thank God!
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I believe you do not understand what those people mean by saying “I don’t see color.”
What I assume what they mean (but then again, what do I know about them?) is about what they see when they see Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Is it :
A) an astronomer, who B) can tell great stories, and C) is heavy-built, black, and has a moustache.
Or:
A) a black guy, who B) is Afro-American, and therefore C) got his reputation as best astronomer of this time as a result of affirmitive action. (“But that said, I am not a racist.”)
In short: if I would say “I don’t see color,” I would mean that I don’t mind the color of the box with chocolates; as long as it got high-quality-chocolate in it.
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I was 33 years old when my brother brought his new girl friend to meet us. We had a great day and when my brother and husband went outside with the kids, his girl friend asked me if I knew anything about his family history; we were adopted at birth. I said I didn’t know and she then said he was obviously of indigenous origions and I frowned at her. I never saw that, until it was pointed out. I just saw my brother. Does that make me a racist?
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NEWSFLASH: Men who do not see colour prefer White women:
More:
http://www.refinery29.com/2016/03/106954/colorblindness-interracial-dating
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It’s like out of sight out of mind throwing a giant sheet over the elephant in the room. For me it’s awkward and annoying to hear from whites. It such a disingenuous thing to say in my opinion.
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So some asshole wrote this ……….. I really dont care what color people are and id rather be seen as a human being than just a female ……. U are the problem … Ever just think maybe some humans just love other humans …. Reguardless of race or sex …….guess not, close minded u are…..
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Enough, already you don’t see color. I see you so, I know you see me my skin color is a little different from your skin color. Color has always been an issue in America. For an individual to say I do not see color is racist and offencive. So, you’re telling me I’m invisible you can’t even recognize me with your own two eyes. I want to know if you can not see color why in the hell could they not see color in slavery. To me the comment is the hide the fact that you really are a racist. So these people come up with this cockamamie mess about you just don’t see color I don’t buy it. You’re not colorblind the racism is real and this is just another example of it. And anybody that wants to believe people don’t see color then you’re the idiot. No, you see color just admit it. It’s about how you treat the color you see. Clearly for anyone to make a statement you don’t see color, you just don’t want to touch bases on the fact that you have problems with the color you see. Your heart is filled with hate and ignorance.
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The reason not being WASP doesn’t matter anymore is because of widespread intermarriage in the US between WASPS and White ethnics. Warner Huntington III could easily have an Italian mother who raised him Catholic, just like Joey Polizzi could easily have a WASP mother who raised him Protestant.
Combine that with the fact that all indigenous European ethnicities have overlapping phenotypic ranges, and it’s easy to see why what kind of White a White American is no longer matters.
If non-Whites intermarried with Whites to the extent that it was no longer possible to tell which Whites were mixed vs which Whites were unmixed, the same thing would happen.
Of course, non-Whites are far more phenotypically distinct than Italians, Greeks, and Slavs ever were.
But generally speaking, actors with some Asian/Pacific ancestry can play White characters believably. Look at Keanu Reeves (1/4 Chinese/Hawaiian), Dean Cain (3/8 Japanese), Russell Crowe (almost 1/8 Maori), Emilia Clarke (1/8 Indian, the Gandhi kind, not the Sitting Bull kind), Brandon Lee (either 3/8 or 5/16 Chinese, son of Bruce Lee), etc…
People with small amounts of black ancestry are accepted as White nowadays, too. Ty Burrell from Modern Family and Steven Tyler from Aerosmith are both 1/64 black.
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