Jay Smooth, American video blogger of illdoctrine.com, did a video in 2008 on how to talk about race. He updated that in 2011 in a TEDx talk at Hampshire College.
His main points of advice:
1. Do not call someone a racist – as true as it might be, you will never win that conversation. Because it deals with motive and intentions, which are largely a matter of guesswork on your part, instead of words and actions, which are not. Racists know this and derail conversations about their words and actions into those about their inner state, which they know you can never win. Calling them racist is letting them off easy.
2. The What You Did conversation – make it about what they did and said and keep it on that. When a thief takes your money you run after him not to tell him he is a thief but to get your money back! The What You Did tactic is not some magic cure for race discourse – it only works 10% of the time. But 10% is way better than the 0% you get with the What You Are conversation. If nothing else, everyone will clearly know where you stand.
3. Race by design is not supposed to make sense – race was made up to defend the indefensible. By design it is meant to screw up your thinking, so accept that you and others will make mistakes.
4. The dental hygiene model of racism – most Americans think racism is like tonsils: you either have it or you do not. Either-or. And once you are not racist you no longer have to work at it or be on your guard. But Americans are constantly being hit with racist messages every day and unless you keep fighting against it, it will make you more and more racist over time. So racism is more like dental hygiene, something you have to work at every day:
We don’t assume that I’m a clean person therefore I don’t need to brush my teeth. And when someone suggests to us that we’ve got something stuck in our teeth, we don’t say “Wh-what do you mean? I have something stuck in my teeth? I’m a clean person! Why would you–”
Being a good person is not a state of being but a practice. We are not good in spite of our imperfections: we are good because of how we deal with those imperfections.
In conclusion:
I know that this is no easy task, and race may be the most difficult sphere in which to apply this concept, but I think it’s where it could also reap the most rewards. And I hope that bit by bit, if we consider that and are mindful of it, we can shift away from taking it as an indictment of our goodness and move towards taking it as a gesture of respect and an act of kindness when someone tells us that we’ve got something racist stuck in our teeth.
See also:
I didn’t like this particular TED talk. Ok you shouldn’t go against racist people by attacking them but by what they said. And for the people who are unconsciously racist that might help.
But if it’s unconsious racism, don’t go for the consiousness but for the images which feed the unconsious. You won’t change people’s unconsiousness by a conversation because people are exposed to a lot more than one consious conversation.
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This is good advice, I’m going to use some of it.
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I keep thinking people are talking about Leon Black from Curb Your Enthusiasm.
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Abagond:
Being honest about race requires both sides to be naked, meaning, both sides can’t be offended by the “Ugly Truth.” This goes for blacks and non-blacks alike. If it’s bulls**t, it must be called out. We can’t get caught up in emotions when it comes to race. A lot of people on this planet get run over because race is not dealt with in an honest and forthright way. This is the problem that white people run into all the time when arguing with black people. They create racial cliches to avoid the real issue, thus, kicking the can down the road. As Jay Smooth duly noted, calling someone a racist is an easy way to stop the convo. Most people are not confident in their beliefs, which explains why the world is so messed up. Articulating strong beliefs and being un-afraid at the same time is not built into every human being…Leaders & Followers.
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
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“most Americans think racism is like tonsils: you either have it or you do not.” probably true. I think a lot of white people, including me until recently, somehow think “You’re being racist.”= “You hate all black people.” Which is why we come back with ridiculous responses like “But I have a friend who’s black / But I love Obama.” (Of course, it’s also to get ourselves off the hook and avoid painful self-examination and recognising our privilege, but I think that’s why those responses seem logical to white people initially.)
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Discussions about race, especially between American blacks and whites, can be tricky. I agree that telling people they’re racist is counterproductive, even when there is every indication they are. IMO, many racists don’t see themselves as racists, so when they are called on it, they get defensive or angry. On the flip-side, I’ve seen people accused of racism when racism (IMO)did not appear to be the case.
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I thought this talk was awesome.
But it’s not a revolutionary idea – study conflict resolution 101 and one of the most important tenets is “focus on the behaviour, not the person”. Same goes for relationships and parenting. You can tell your child they did something bad, but never that they are a bad person.
Here’s another important reason focusing on the person’s words or actions, rather than whether or not they ARE racist: The person accusing the other of racism is also making some assumptions which may not always be correct.
It’s not uncommon to hear something that sounds racist, but in that situation I might not be fully aware of the context in which it was said. If I call someone racist based on what I heard, I am assuming more than I actually know about them. I can only go on what I heard and how that made me feel.
In addition, some people say racially insensitive things, not because they are racist but because they don’t know any better – eg. they are using words that were acceptable decades ago but are uncomfortable today, such as calling Asian-Americans “Orientals”.
Once the label of racist is thrown out there, it tends to stick. So even if they modify the behaviour that was offensive, they might still be labelled as racist based on something they said a long time ago.
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Good advice. I have to learn to practice it.
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Agree with much of what you say Eurasian Sensation but like brothawolf I too will have to learn to practice it.
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Trying to decide who is a racist, and who isn’t, sounds complicated.
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As these comments show – Lara – it is counter-productive.
Excellent commentary – Eurasian Sensation
Great Summary of the video and article – Abagond
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“As these comments show – Lara – it is counter-productive.”
I agree, I think it’s mostly a waste of time.
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I Like part >> never call someone a racist
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I agree with Eurasian, I also found this talk to be wonderful, though the basic idea is not completely new. I learnt a long time ago it is always better to detach an individual from any behaviour you find undesirable if you wish to change it. To use Eurasian’s example of a child, if you tell that child he/she is being bad, he/she can internalise this as a part of their identity and continue to misbehave. If you tell them they are normally such a good boy/girl, so why did they do that bad thing, they are encouraged to behave well and feel more guilt.
However, I am not so sure it would work that simply with adults, especially when racism is concerned. Some people do say things that are racially insensitive because they are ignorant. If you call them out on this racist thing they said/did, what happens if that person insists they are not ignorant even though they are clearly not willing to consider the racialised person’s point of view on the matter? What if they believe it is acceptable and, in their mind, that makes it acceptable? What if all those words you find on the racist bingo card start popping out all over the place? What if the person twists your words and says that you are calling them racist, turning the whole thing into you attacking poor little them? I would also like to know how to deal with situations like this.
Nevertheless, I do think Jay Smooth’s advice is helpful for confronting those close to you who may say/do racist things. Sure, you can give that man who called you a n*gger/ch*nk/filthy X ethnicity in the supermarket the finger and forget about his ignorance and tiny racist mind, but that cannot be so easily done if those people are your family members. What if you are partially White yourself and one of your own parents spouts this rubbish? What if you were adopted by a White family who does this? I think Jay’s approach is helpful for people in these situations.
It’s a pity his method `only works 10% of the time.’ I’ll admit I’m afraid to try it precisely for that reason because angering a stranger is not as bad as angering a whole family whose presence you have to be in regularly. I have thought about it over and over again, but I think I already know from experience it would be fruitless. However, I do have to say something when they come to visit… There’s no way greeting my husband’s boss and colleagues by saying their language is stupid, hilarious and sounds like `ching chong ching!’ is going to go down well…
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@ brothawolf & demerera:
learning to practice is it is of course the important part. I think a lot of anti-racists don’t know how to talk about racism and it ends up as a load of accusations and labels which are not always justified. It’s important to look past the dichotomy of racist/non-racist, particularly because those who apply such labels are often blind to their own biases and misperceptions. I believe this sort of thing is damaging to the anti-racist cause; throwing around personal accusations that appear unjustified makes it seem like “political correctness gone mad”, and like the story of the boy who cried wolf, makes it easier for people to dismiss justified complaints of racism (eg “Everything is racist these days, you lot always whinge about it.”)
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@Eurasian Sensation:
“some people say racially insensitive things, not because they are racist but because they don’t know any better”
—
So true. A lot of times you can tell when people are speaking out of ignorance or malice. You can then handle accordingly.
To clarify my previous comment about calling someone a racist, I didn’t mean that racism shouldn’t be addressed when it rears its ugly head. It should.
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@Lara
Trying to decide who is a racist, and who isn’t, sounds complicated.
As one of the other commenters stated, in response to you it probably is counterproductive to assist you here but, i’m pretty sure you have a grasp of this, particularly as you labelled yourself ‘racist’ on one of the other blogs just the other day.
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Eurasian Sensation
makes it easier for people to dismiss justified complaints of racism (eg “Everything is racist these days, you lot always whinge about it.”)
Yes I agree here, I have seen that rolling of the eyes and sigh of resignation or the furtive and wary looks when someone says something that ‘could’ be misconstrued or ‘is’ taken out of turn.
People with a ‘set’ mentality dont want to be ‘taught’ and ‘preached’ to, particularly if they have made a comment that is both ignorant and ridiculous to boot. They need acceptance that their behaviour and assertions, whilst outmoded, are still able to give them validation in the eyes of their peers. The worst examples of this I have seen is in a pub setting where you have your ‘locals’ and when the ‘token’ POC comes into the bar, they become fair game for a ‘bit of banter’. Any other POC that come into that pub…well, its a given that they would want to join in too so the unsuspecting individual finds themself caught up in a situation they neither like or want. That individual will be in danger of ‘reacting’ as they are not privy to the so called ‘culture’ of joking amongst the locals and this is where I guess, it would be difficult not to go off if you feel you are being personally attacked.
those who apply such labels are often blind to their own biases and misperceptions
Again, I agree but in the most part I feel too that they refuse to acknowledge it as it has become a way of life which seemingly, for the most part they have ‘got away with’.
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I tried for many years to be nice to other white people about racism and supporting white supremacy. I am at the point now where it depends on the context–who and where and why and so forth. I tend to be upfront and abrasive towards denial-of-privilege.
Here’s why. When a white person reacts to your noting of their racist behavior, or even more so when you explain their privileges, they may in that moment react very poorly. But they won’t stop thinking about it and just because they reacted that way, does not mean they won’t come around. You may have changed minds already in past discussions you’ve had.
Therefore I say, tell it like it is. When they’re alone and feeling less defensive, they might look into it. I fought privilege kicking and screaming, yet here I am today, unpacking the invisible knapsack for other whites and trying to hold us accountable for white supremacy.
This post is relevant in that it addresses the role of language and subtlety in white supremacy: http://resistingthemilieu.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/the-internet-racist-code-words-and-tropes-glossary/
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To a degree this rather fits in with the annual Black Pete debate, in the Netherlands (also being held in other countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Belgium and Surinam, which gained independence of the Kingdom, and countries with a large population of Dutch, most notably Canada).
This is however, an issue in which one has to call spades spades (as in cards!!), as we are dealing here with with a highly disambiguous issue, in which black has several meanings, and is thus not fit to indicate a person of recent significant native Sub-Saharan ancestry, a use for which the word negro, by preference pronounced Spanishish, will be used.
The Saint Nicholas-celebration in the Dutch areas involves as main character a bishop from Asia minor who died in the 4th and 6th century in what’s now Turkey, is burried in Italy, is in heaven and lives in Spain. A rather interesting point is that said bishop was initially depicted as very dark, though the statement was made that the character was not a negro (actually, not a Moor, more on that later), he was depicted as that dark, black hair, non-white chocolate skin, that it was necessary to state that, but in later centuries he was shown whiter and whiter, both to indicate his age and his respectability, (which accounts for the hair). He often has a companion, some of which are dark, not to say black, and even demonic, but only the Dutch culture has a regular negro as the companion of the saint, rather than some sort of black demon or so.
That is, in the 1850 booklet which established the celebration, and is the main source of the accepted canon of the Dutch story, the companion is established as “black of colour” and a “knecht”(a word usually translated as “servant”, but as its English cognate “knight” may indicate, not quite as servile. It was a honorable profession at the time). The name of the sidekick to the respectable bishop was not mentioned, but recent research has shown that he was in 1850 already known as “P(i)eter” to some, and in 1859 already established and popular in part of the Roman Catholic population, as a negro sidekick by that name. Another researcher, quoted by the researcher who discovered the former dates, indicates that the sidekick was already known as “Zwarte Piet” (Black Pete) in 1868. An article from 1884, even claims, that according to childhood memories, the character Pieter, negro companion to Saint Nicholas did already exist in 1828. There are quite some origin stories and theories about the character, the one about him being a Moor, is often misunderstood as in the 19th century that word could be used to indicate “African” or “Negro”.
The character was and is hugely popular, but it being canonically a negro caused a number of prejudices about negroes being attributed to it, and though Saint Nicholas (a liberator saint) with (fully clothed) negro companion, strikes me as rather abolitionist in intended meaning, the prejudices and honest, but imperfect imitation of real negroes who played the part, made the performance of the negro character in blackface, certainly after the change from one loyal negro companion to a myriad of blackfaced, incompetent assistants, and the period in which Piet was more or less the executioner of the Saint, makes that it is indeed quite easily to see this as a mockery of negroes, even though the Black Petes seem to have devolved in a lesser kind of people existing to serve the needs of “normal people” (negroes included), a kind of blacker people, thus, in some white minds.
Internationally the celebration with, Petes and all, may be worth over a (short) billion US$, so to go demonstrating on the national arrival of the Saint, with T-shirts and a banner reading “Zwarte Piet is Racism”, while you know that the mount of the Saint has been for the previous 20 years a (in later years retired) police mount with a police officer disguised as Zwarte Piet (one of the many), not going away when cops tell you to do that, on an event visited by tens of thousands, including many children, and seen by over a million on television, unaware that the police sees you as looking for trouble (with some justification as people who disagreed with that statement seemed rather violent types on the internet), and you do not want to have adults starting a fight on a children’s event. Some arrests were thus made, for understandable reasons.
I must say that black people claiming that Schenkman’s book showed a white companion, that zwarte Piet was made up in 1891, that they are being beaten and kicked while just being dragged away, that it was not a protest but an art project all in defense of the claim that Zwarte Piet is racism, reinforce the prejudice that one does not have to take black people screaming “Racism” seriously and hurt their claim, which is in my opinion just as valid as the opposite. Mind you, Piet (or one of his personified aspects) is a common pretended giver of presents, allowing anonymity of the giver, and is thus commonly described in poems, either in the third or the first person,… As such we are dealing with one character, which is also a legion, with millions of writers, and part of big bussiness, internationally the Dutch style celebration must cause about a (short/US) billion of “extra” commerce, and he is much more than the bishop a very beloved “Dutch” cultural icon. Equating that character with racism (and slavery) is automatically generating hostile reactions, though only a fool would deny the connection, the nature of that connection is not entirely clear, to say the last.
The Canadian case was rather interesting, you have to know that the Dutch Canadian and so called “African” Canadian minorities are about the same size, since 1985 Saint Nicholas arrived with negro companion(s), the latter played by people in blackface, unfortunately. Suddenly we get a person called Roger Jones, who claims:
“The celebration of Sinterklaas is a wonderful tradition that should be continued. Black Peter should not.”
To a Dutch mind, this does not compute, without Piet there is just a some stuffed dignified, clumsy bishop on a horse, in dire need of assistance left. Taking Piet out of the game, is taking the originality, youth, invention, romance, love, respecting out of the feast.Celebrating Saint Nicholas without Piet, means you’re no longer Dutch, and that removing Piet from St.Nicholas, would translate into “North American” as:”Why don’t you take a big sword and cut Santa in two, you can celebrate Christmas just as well with half a Santa.” It is the combination which is the “Dutch” counterpart to Santa, not Sinterklaas alone
When the decision was taken not to allow Black Peter to come this year, it was rightly decided based on the Dutch reactions that without Piet, there is little point in having Sinterklaas alone, the can do things alone, but belong together and the whole thing was cancelled.As the celebration at home should be the main event, this break with tradition will hurt the Dutch community worse than the actual people. As such it shows, that without Piet, it just is not “Dutch” anymore.
On the other hand, R.B. Jones has some points, though some of them have already been answered with changes to the way it is celebrated, but well, if something is celebrated by about 20 million people, it is not changed quickly everywhere at the same time and Vancouver is a bit far from the Euro-Caribbean heartlands, and may not be entirely up to date.
http://tuliptv.com/?p=340
Besides if you have as many black people as “Dutch” people in a country, it starts to become very weird to use blackface on white skin for a negro character, to say the least.
That said, “Zwarte Piet” is used in a pejorative way for “black” people not employed by St.Nicholas, and certainly if there are no “justifying” circumstances such as the use of red lipstick, big golden earrings, berets, brightly colored clothes or the reciting or writing of poems, giving of presents, scaling of walls, ending up with a blackened face(with other words being really similar to St.Nicholas” companion) or being used as a scapegoat, or playing cards (the latter two options have to do with “zwarte piet” also being a Dutch nickname of the jack of spades, and that being the “single” card in a version of Old Maid, named after the game, in which the unwanted card and the person holding it are indicated by the nickname, said game may involve some blackening of faces), “zwarte piet” is considered offensive enough to cause “expensive problems” in court for people using it towards non-whites, and that is as it should be.
My personal guess about the character is that we are dealing here with a counterpart of Uncle Tom, people who know the original versions will see that both characters had some value in making the world ripe for the abolition of slavery, creating an image of good people who just happened to be negroes, but were to a large extent corrupted, by blackface actors, who for some reason, be it ignorance, unintended implications, amateurism or malice, portrayed the character that often as inferior, that that became the image burnt into people’s minds. So calling a character like this racism, is doing injustice to a phenomenon which in itself is giving a good impression of the history of race relations, with some very beautiful aspects and many very ugly ones too. By refusing to acknowledge the good and the ugly, one just sees half the truth and does not help another to see your point of view as well.
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@Ben Fenton:
Thanks for your perspective. The glossary on your blog is good, too. As far as I’m concerned, these “code” words and phrases aren’t so code. They’re blatant references.
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I’m tired of pussy footing around white people because of their racism. They’ve been hell bent on telling people of color just what they think of them through words, propaganda, civil laws ect. Yet we are supposed to take the higher road, turn the other cheek and eternally play Ghandi/Dr. King so white people won’t be offended. Hell we were offended for 400 effing years. I say eff em and say what you want. They sure as hell have.
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Nom: Thanks for the compliment, and I totally agree about how blatant those things seem to me. I guess the problem is that these terms and tropes are used in ambiguous contexts, and also it can be really really hard to pin those who use them down and make them face their racism. So I feel like it’s kinda necessary. I’d like to expand it, though, and use more tropes that are harder to expose.
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@Ben Fenton:
Good idea.
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@ Darqbeauty:
“I say eff em and say what you want.”
I would understand the motivation for that. But please explain: What would you actually achieve via that approach? How would that tangibly improve the lot of black people, and society in general?
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@ Eurasian Sensation
What would you actually achieve via that approach? How would that tangibly improve the lot of black people, and society in general?
*******************************
– Eurasian Sensation
I would understand the motivation for that.
I’m curious, are you a black person?
Please demonstrate or give an example of any historical precedent where being nice to racist whites – or where appealing to the hearts and minds of the white collective – gained any appreciable ground towards the ending of racism.
Looking at history in general, will you please cite which group of oppressors simply stopped mistreating an oppressed group because their victims decided to be politically correct, nice, cordial, polite and sensitive to the FEELINGS of the privileged and oppressive group?
Is power now trumped by niceness?
Why do you believe (or imply) that it’s the responsibility of black people to improve the lot of society in general?
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@Eurasian Sensation
Excellent comments. I agree that your way is more civil and productive, I just unfortunately am too short tempered and just don’t have the patience to deal with the open or the more subtle racism contemporary white supremacists express. Their tactics are just too visible and their goals so apparent to me to even bother to start a discussion with them. There are exceptions of course, but many just try to push their agenda and just disguise it as a thoughtful and open discourse. People like that are so irritatingly and depressingly vocal in current politics in Finland and use exactly the aforementioned method.
It is important to talk about racism racial concept, their history and current situation. Since I personally know only a few POC, Abagond’s blog has been quite useful to me to read about the opinions and experiences of people of different backgrounds.
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“Since I personally know only a few POC”
I figured this much. Why don’t you spend a little time in Detroit? Then you’ll know a lot of people of color.
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@Lara
I wouldn’t mind. I just happen to live in Finland.
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Ok, taking Eurasian Sensations excellent comments on board….
What if someone continually makes guiless and inane comments pertaining to mythical and stereotypical view points on a blog but, you suspect that they have a masochistic personality and personal issues?
To elaborate more they
Accuse BW of being angry yet maintain that they should not be too nice to them as when the BW reciprocate in a friendly way, there is something wrong with this
They maintain not to understand the term racism yet define themselves as a racist
Maintain that all BW are goldiggers whilst openly admitting that they too subscribe to a website that publicises that its male members have big pockets
Understands discrimination but refuses to acknowledge that it applies to race in any context
Asserts facts about POC despite having limited and certainly peripheral interaction with them. On further probing, and give other examples, resists listening/taking on board what is being presented
It becomes difficult to address though when you suspect that the person has ‘issues’ – any sensible/sane person would not expose themselves to continually interacting with the very people that they maintain they dont understand/care to understand – yet, perhaps the fact that they do indicates something else too….
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This post seems to be based on the premise that White people want to be good in regards to race and it is worth trying to explain racism to White people; that they are rational. In my experience they are largely not rational when it comes to race therefore they are almost impossible to reason with.
You can make the best case ever with the most impeccable logic and many will just dismiss it, and call you a “race baiter for trying to falsely make it about race” even though they have just said or done something racist.
I don’t think White people want to be better, I think the vast majority of them are incorrigible, they like things just the way they are. So why waste your precious time and energy trying to convince someone of something when they are determined to never accept it and they don’t have to because they have all the power?
White people collectively remind me of the Terminator: “Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, and it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”
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Demerera,
I’ve read two statements on here, made over and over, by many different commenters. The first one is that most white people are racist, whether they acknowledge it, or not. The second one is that blacks prefer white people who are honest about their racism. It stands to reason then, that if white people want blacks to like them, and believe they are sincere, they should be racist.
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I did not like his analysis that much, by jay I mean, it is too short of a post by him first of all as well it is to too ambiguous, he needs to read some Tim Wise videos himself as well as walk firsthand in the shoes of an African person.
my youtube channel: xxphantommasterxx
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Lara,
Your disingenuous sophistry makes me wanna hurl.
xxxphantomxxx,
Is having a black father enough to make a person black? Jay’s is black.
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@ Matari:
I thought it’d be obvious from my screen name that I’m not a black person. Anyway… I guess your comment revolves around whether one believes that the relationship of whites and blacks in the US is still one of oppressor and oppressed. (It’s certainly an unequal relationship, but oppressor/oppressed is debatable.)
“Why do you believe (or imply) that it’s the responsibility of black people to improve the lot of society in general?”
I don’t believe it’s their responsibility. My implication was that a society in which everyone goes around telling each other to eff off based on real or perceived insult is going to me a more racially tense society, which is not good for black people or anyone else.
I say “real or perceived”, because it’s easy to spot racism where it’s not. History seems to have made black Americans hypersensitive to racism, and in some cases seeing it where it doesn’t exist. (It happens on this blog’s comment threads quite a bit, for example)
Widespread adoption of the “eff off” strategy would achieve what? Would it make it easier for black people to succeed in the white-dominated work environment and bring money into their communities? No, quite the opposite.
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The second one is that blacks prefer white people who are honest about their racism. It stands to reason then, that if white people want blacks to like them, and believe they are sincere, they should be racist.
…
When I was growing up the older relatives in my family would say such things as they preferred life in the South to living in NYC as the whites down South didn’t bother hiding their racist sentiments. Sounds quite stressful to me, actually. Personally, I think most whites in the US are indeed racist, but I appreciate the ones who do manage to keep their hateful feelings to themselves. Having sanctimonious vipers targeting you at every turn simply makes life more unpleasant than it has to be.
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@Eurasian Sensation
You were away awhile, weren’t you? I welcome you and your excellent rationale back, good sir! People like you and your balanced views are much needed here.
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@ Eurasian Sensation
“I thought it’d be obvious from my screen name that I’m not a black person.”
I take little to nothing for granted, It’s just really easy and simple to ask a question.
“.. I guess your comment revolves around whether one believes that the relationship of whites and blacks in the US is still one of oppressor and oppressed. (It’s certainly an unequal relationship, but oppressor/oppressed is debatable.)”
If the practice of racism isn’t based upon an oppressor vs oppressed relationship, then it wouldn’t be racism and the US would not be a racist society.
“My implication was that a society in which everyone goes around telling each other to eff off based on real or perceived insult is going to me a more racially tense society, which is not good for black people or anyone else.”
I notice you avoided these questions.
Please demonstrate or give an example of any historical precedent where being nice to racist whites – or where appealing to the hearts and minds of the white collective – gained any appreciable ground towards the ending of racism.
Looking at history in general, will you please cite which group of oppressors simply stopped mistreating an oppressed group because their victims decided to be politically correct, nice, cordial, polite and sensitive to the FEELINGS of the privileged and oppressive group?
Is power now trumped by niceness?
“History seems to have made black Americans hypersensitive to racism, and in some cases seeing it where it doesn’t exist. (It happens on this blog’s comment threads quite a bit, for example)”
Since history has made blacks hypersensitive (according to you and some others – usually non-black folks) to the extent that blacks see racism where it doesn’t exist (you say it happens quite a bit here on this blog).Would you please present this evidence?
Moreover, what exactly QUALIFIES YOU, as a person whom I presume has never lived in black skin, or disguised yourself to appear as a black person, TO DETERMINE what is or isn’t a racist act or statement against a black person?
“Widespread adoption of the “eff off” strategy would achieve what? Would it make it easier for black people to succeed in the white-dominated work environment and bring money into their communities? No, quite the opposite.”
I didn’t think we were talking about workplace “conflict resolution strategies” or human resources methods to resolve personnel issues. If any workplace situation is racist, then it should be handled accordingly with the procedural apparatus the government or the company has in place to deal with such matters.
But on the matter of money going into “their communities” again, please present your evidence regarding why (where, how, when) talking nice to racists actually caused that to happen. History suggests the opposite! Witness the summer riots of the 60’s in places like Newark NJ and NYC.
My man … since you are NOT Black, perhaps your suggestions about how Blacks should behave in the face of mistreatment and marginalization are weightless and without merit, much like that of any white person coming along and professing to KNOW BETTER than the victims of racism about how the victims should act/react against oppression and racial bigotry – perceived or real.
I think Black people are quite capable, reasonable, rational and logical when it comes to dealing with racism. Sometimes, oftentimes I think we are TOO REASONABLE when it comes to putting up with this crap, and the people pushing it.
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@ Matari:
“I think Black people are quite capable, reasonable, rational and logical when it comes to dealing with racism.”
Most, yeah. But there’s a lot of people, black or otherwise, who do not possess all these qualities. And some of the accusations of racism come from these people. It doesn’t really help.
“Since history has made blacks hypersensitive (according to you and some others – usually non-black folks) to the extent that blacks see racism where it doesn’t exist (you say it happens quite a bit here on this blog).Would you please present this evidence?
Moreover, what exactly QUALIFIES YOU, as a person whom I presume has never lived in black skin, or disguised yourself to appear as a black person, TO DETERMINE what is or isn’t a racist act or statement against a black person?”
You might remember an uproar from some black Americans a couple of years back over an Australian commercial for KFC which showed a white guy making friends with some black West Indians by using fried chicken. (http://www.theage.com.au/national/kfc-ad-blasted-as-racist-in-us-20100107-lum3.html) This was allegedly racist because in the US there is a stereotype about black people liking fried chicken. Except the ad came from Australia, which does not have this stereotype, and involved West Indians, who do not have this stereotype. It was shown while Australia was playing matches against the West Indies, and it used fried chicken because… KFC is in the business of fried chicken.
At least twice on this blog I have been falsely accused of racism against black people. xxxphantomxxx was doing it every chance he could a few months back, based on I’m not sure what… I’m guessing it’s a combination of his apparent inability to read properly and his self-professed desire to exterminate Caucasians. He even visited my blog to make another such comment, which you can read here: http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2008/06/great-black-covers-of-white-songs.html
On another post, and I can’t remember which one, I complained that two commenters were constantly waging ad hominem attacks on me because I disagreed with them. Abagond assumed I found them aggressive only because they were black women (rather than the fact that they were waging ad hominem attacks on me).
So that’s two examples of me being accused of racism over what I know 100% was pure nonsense on the accuser’s part. Hang around this blog long enough and have the temerity to disagree with some commenters and you’ll get accused of being racist soon enough, or alternatively if you are black (like King) you’ll get accused of being a sellout Uncle Tom for the same thing.
Now I’m not trying to paint myself as a victim. But my point is that while there are a multitude of legitimate racist aggravations that occur, there’s a lot of other stuff that can get interpreted as racist when it’s not. And having angry black people accusing someone of things unjustifiably does not make non-black people any more sympathetic to the black cause.
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I get the impression that here, if a non-black person expresses as his opinion that something is not necessarily racist against black people, he is labeled racist himself. I think what is racist and not has to be widely examined by people of various ethnicities and cultural backgrounds and using some common sense while doing it. There has been and probably will always be overblows. People involved in these discussion really need to keep their head cool, mind open and try to be as objective as possible.
I’ve seen Euraisian sensation’s posts for a couple of years now, and I’ve always felt he’s done his best to do just that. I’d never accuse him of being racist.
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@Eurasian Sensation:
You still haven’t answered Matari’s questions. There are plenty of historical incidences of people being slaughtered by being too ‘nice’ actually, or shutting up or saying nothing. It seems to me that white folks aren’t the only ones scared of being called racist. Why is that? I constantly ask this question but have never received a creditable answer from anyone. You can call whites and non-blacks racists and they become all flummoxed. Their response runs the gamut from being insensate to being enraged. Yet if you call them an obscene name they may react but not to the degree that they do when you call them racist or imply such. I see these reactions on a constant basis. In some cases, you just have to imply that racism is involved(so much about being polite or criticizing their behaviour), you don’t even have to state it out right. Perhaps you, or someone else can give me some insight based upon your observations? I still don’t understand the reaction such as it is, to being called a ‘racist’, there are plenty of other equally belligerent names to call someone. In my estimation being called a racist is tame in comparison. As for someone saying ‘eff em’ on a personal level, I can see them saying that after constant micro and macro assaults year after year, day after day. It is quite liberating actually. I think they meant this to be figuratively as in, not letting racism have an effect to the point that it rules their life. For me racism is banal in that it’s meaning and the subsequent effects has been diluted. Anyone can be racist is the white man and his minion’s clarion call.
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Hannu Lipponen (& Eurasian)
“I think what is racist and not has to be widely examined by people of various ethnicities and cultural backgrounds and using some common sense while doing it.”
Unlike you and and your pal, I don’t put much stock in common sense where WHITENESS is concerned. If common sense permits racism, what does that say to YOU about common sense? I KNOW what it says to me!
The longer I live, the more I see that VERY FEW whites are trustworthy when it comes to matters of race.
I’m sure that “various” child-molesters, rapists and people that commit sex acts with animals would also LOVE to have a “common sense” say about how and to what extent these deviant acts affect their victims – and how those victims are being “a bit over-sensitive” about a little casual sexual penetration. I’d venture a guess that THEY would see their unintended errors as NOT VERY “criminal” and somehow justify it as natural.. (“well, everybody has sex..”) and find every excuse possible to defend and reason away their wrongdoings. Fortunately, society does not give a child molester – and such – the right to measure and judge the boundaries of what constitutes deviant sexual acts.
But unfortunately, even abused animals get more respect in this regard than abused black folks!
Do you see where I’m going with this, or do you need someone to spell it all the way out for you??
Yes, here everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how inappropriate it is.
My opinion is that people who aren’t black ought not to tell/instruct how those who are the most victimized by white supremacy (black people) if they are being over-sensitive or how they should react or behave in the face of mistreatment, real or otherwise.
If it is appropraiate for YOU to suggest how blacks should behave in any regard, then it’s just as appropriate for me to tell you that you SHOULD mind your own damn business. We know better than YOU what’s racist and what isn’t.
After all, that’s common sense, too – is it not? : ))
Have a nice day!
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@ aspergum:
“aspergum
xxxphantomxxx,
Is having a black father enough to make a person black? Jay’s is black.”
Only if you feel the the ‘One Drop Rule’ has merit…
I figure this – the so-called ‘bi-racial’ or ‘multi-racial’ people wish to identify with whichever portion of their ethnicity they choose, correct? Individuals will name themselves – what other people call them should be irrelevant.
Now, those who switch said identity when it is convenient for them are those that should be avoided – their pathological self-hatred and dishonesty could be contagious. Tiger Woods, Nicole Richie, and the artist known as ‘Prince’ could fall in this category.
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“History seems to have made black Americans hypersensitive to racism” – Eurasian Sensation
“I think Black people are quite capable, reasonable, rational and logical when it comes to dealing with racism.” – Matari
“Most, yeah” – Eurasian Sensation
So which one is it? Are Black people “hypersensitive to racism” or are “most” capable of being reasonable, rational and logical when it comes to dealing with racism?
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“Your disingenuous sophistry”
I like that.
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@Eurasian Sensation:
But my point is that while there are a multitude of legitimate racist aggravations that occur, there’s a lot of other stuff that can get interpreted as racist when it’s not.
—-
I see what you’re saying.
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@ robert:
having just checked my dictionary, “hypersensitive” isn’t really the right word. Hyper-aware, perhaps. Your own & Matari’s comments about not finding whites reasonable or trustworthy are examples of what i mean, and i’m sure that is a common enough feeling. That perception may be justified, but it is likely to make some people spot racism where it isn’t sometimes.
@ herneith:
matari’s historical question doesn’t seem particularly relevant to me because it assumes that America is basically the same as it was in the 50s, and i happen to disagree. White America seems to have collectively decided that it has done all it can do for blacks. Reparations ain’t coming. The most realistic way for black people to get ahead now is to work within the system, rather than stand outside it. And to succeed in a white dominated world requires more tactful ways of addressing racism. Note that i’m not saying anyone should ignore racism, just that an approach like Jay’s is more likely 2 be successful with white people.
Regarding your question about being accused of being racist, it stings because mud sticks, & it forces the accused to justify himself or risk getting stuck with that label. (If by contrast someone just called me a c*ck, that doesn’t really have the same effect.)
If someone tells me i’ve said something that sounds racist, that’s a lot easier to take on board & discuss, whether or not it is a fair accusation. But if someone tells me to go back to Stormfront (as phantom did once) or whatever, the interaction can only get worse.
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“Race by design is not supposed to make sense”, so why do people still believe in it, and proudly call themselves black, white, etc when it doesn’t mean anything?
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I agree with Herneith and Jay Smooth that a big thing that makes it so hard to talk about racism with white people is the way they overreact when you point out something racist they did – no matter how delicately and respectfully and calmly you try to point it out, no matter how carefully you avoid the r-word. Jay Smooth nailed it when he said it comes from a false sense of what being a good person is all about.
But I also agree that in most cases whites are not well-meaning when it comes to talking about racism. They are too far gone. They have sold their souls to become white.
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@ Abagond:
I’m guessing that whether or not someone thinks Jay Smooth’s approach is a good one depends on whether they think white people can be reasonable or not.
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@Eurasian Sensation
Maybe we have this view of White people because that has been our experience and what we have observed and maybe just maybe it is an accurate view and not the result of “hyper-awareness” but the result of observing and experiencing reality.
Matari said that “I think Black people are quite capable, reasonable, rational and logical when it comes to dealing with racism.” and you agreed that most Black people are, so this alleged “hyper-awareness doesn’t affect the judgment of most Black people in your opinion according to what you’ve previously said.
White racism is so entrenched in the culture, and so pervasive you don’t have to be “hyper-aware” to see it, it comes at you relentlessly as a Black person in one form or another. In fact, I would say that Black people in general are not aware enough of it because they have internalised so much racism, they just accept it as the norm.
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@ Robert:
perhaps I’m jaded by my experience reading blogs and the like that deal with race. I don’t think that most black people imagine racism out of thin air everywhere, but some seem to want to find it everywhere at all costs, even when it’s patently not there. These people (who range from the obviously stupid to the obviously intelligent) may be only a small minority, and I know that internet interactions don’t necessarily reflect reality, but they certainly add to the stereotype of black people playing the race card all the time. Personally, I hate it when legitimate complaint is dismissed as merely someone playing the race card, but on the other hand, I’ve seen a lot of ridiculousness that feeds that stereotype too. (Another example: the twitter firestorm aimed at Alec Baldwin’s daughter because she mentioned the name of the Jay-Z/Kanye song that she really liked – “N____s in Paris”).
On my own blog I’ve been accused of racism by whites, blacks, Asians and whatever else. Occasionally they may have a point, but almost all the accusations are because they don’t understand the context, or don’t know how to read properly, or clearly have major issues of their own. (example: http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2010/09/you-bitches-are-some-of-most-racist.html). So no, I have trouble accepting that EVERYBODY’s radar is 100% correct. Which is why I think it’s good to use measured tactics when calling out racism, which allows the possibility for misunderstanding, and addresses the issue rather than the person.
Of course, I’m not talking about when random people yell out obviously racist sh*t or whatever. That stuff fully deserves an “eff off” response.
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@Eurasian Sensation
Well in every sphere of human activity there’s always a small minority who say and do messed up things, it’s a fact of life and they will always be with us.
If people see this tiny minority call someone racist or something racism that clearly isn’t as a tactic and they decide that must mean “Blacks are always playing the race card” or it makes them think that “Racism today is minimal Blacks are just using it as an excuse for being inferior” or “Blacks experience hardly any racism nowadays they are just paranoid and imagining most of it” then that is what they want to believe about Black people and probably already believed about Black people.
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[…] It’s about someone’s intentions. […]
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