Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism. It is not equal and opposite. Instead it is different in scale and kind:
- Blacks lack institutional power. They do not, for the most part, control
- the banks,
- the police,
- the courts,
- the schools,
- the hospitals,
- the newspapers,
- the film industry,
- the fashion industry,
- the labour market,
- the housing market
and on and on. Instead whites do. So much so that their racism affects rates of black unemployment, income, life expectancy, education, segregation and incarceration. Blacks do not even begin to have that kind of power over whites. If wealth is power, as it largely is in America, then whites as a whole are a hundred times more powerful than blacks (that is double what it was before the Great Recession). Even though the president is black, he cannot openly help blacks without being accused of racism.
- Internalized racism: The racism among blacks is mostly directed against other blacks, especially against one’s self. Blacks are subject to much of the same racist brainwashing as whites, particularly through television and school. According to one test of racism (the IAT), 42% of blacks are racist in favour of whites!
- Blacks understand whites way better than whites understand blacks:
- Because they have to just to feed their families in a society that is mostly white.
- Because they read white books, watch white television, receive white educations, work at white companies, etc. They have to deal with whites. Meantime whites can avoid dealing with blacks or having to take them seriously.
This makes it hard for blacks to stereotype and dehumanize whites to a serious degree.
- Blacks have not committed serious injustices that require racist whitewashing.
- Blacks do not build their sense of self-worth on looking down on whites.
- There is nothing like a black n-word for whites. So much so that most of the commenters on this blog who use racial slurs against whites are themselves white!
- There is nothing like the black Klan. Some whites think the Black Panthers were like that, but they never went into white neighbourhoods to spread terror and lynch white people.
Blacks do commit hate crimes and so on, but to think black racism is equal and opposite to white racism is to miss the nature of both white racism and black racism. White racism is institutional and cultural and a hundred times more powerful. Black racism is personal and, to a large degree, is a weakened form of white racism.
Some readers think I am just flipping the script, that I am a black Stormfront or something. A black Stormfront would talk about “whitey” and “white devils” and imagine blacks violently wiping out whites and so on. The strange thing is, nearly everyone who talks about that kind of stuff on this blog is white. So much so that when a black commenter talks like that I suspect him (it is always a him) of being a white troll.
See also:
don’t worry about the idiots calling you a black stormfront. racism is one of the biggest problems facing the US and white people don’t even think it exists
just today i read about a study that showed people bid lower for ebay items if there was a black person in the picture. last week i read about a harvard study of racism that showed white americans actually believe anti-white bias is WORSE than anti-black bias. it boggles the mind.
don’t waste your time on low-information jerks.
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Co-sign. I recall Iowa Congressman U.S. Representative Steve King (R-Iowa) making this statement regarding Obama’s administration criticizing the anti-illegal immigration law in Arizona:
King: When you look at this administration, I’m offended by Eric Holder and the President also, their posture. It looks like Eric Holder said that white people in America are cowards when it comes to race. And I don’t know what the basis of that is but I’m not a coward when it comes to that and I’m happy to talk about these things and I think we should. But the President has demonstrated that he has a default mechanism in him that breaks down the side of race – on the side that favors the black person.
You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.
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Please clarify what you think the differences between a black and white education are.
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Black racism is more of an awakening of the corruptness of white racism. If anything, it helps stop the brainwashing of white racism. Another great post, as usual!
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Abagond, you are on a roll!!! That time off served you well! Thank you for explicit explanation of racism as a POWER dynamic. Hopefully this post will finally silence the individuals on this blog who constantly pull these deflecting arguments of black racism = white racism, and that Blacks and White just have polarized ways of thinking (and that we need to think from a neutral perspective). I would go one step further with your post and say that ALL White people (racist, non-racist, Liberal, conservative, etc. etc.) know that they benefit from the current racial caste system, and truly have NO interest in changing in it. Why would they give up the economic, social, and psychological benefits of White Supremacy? If anything they only believe in tokenism (Black people get some of the jobs and some of the resources, but never in proportion to our size of the population), and as long as we continue to play their game, that is all we will get…..
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I love the Spy vs. Spy picture.
Also, I find it funny that whites love to sight any and all news reports about a crime where there’s a white victim and a black suspect, and thinking that it should be a hate crime. I also love it when they love to use that as an argument that black-on-white crime happens more often than white-on-black crime. That is what racist trolls love to sight almost everytime. It’s like saying they WANT black people to commit crimes against whites so they can rant and rave about it to other racists. They are not about protecting the white race if all they care about are white victims of so-called black crime after the fact.
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WTF is wrong with you!!! When I first came on this sight and just seemed like a nice website to inpower black people but not all you are doing is slandering white people! YOU ARE BEING RACIST!!! First of please describe what white education is and then tell me what black education is? Then tell me about what white shows and books are too? Last time I checked black people do work in all those industries you mentioned and if white people own them then maybe they actually worked to get to were they are now because, even though you may believe this, white people don’t just get things handed to them either you know.If you don’t like how things are done where you live MOVE. You act as though black people should own the world which is a pretty mest up way of thinking for any type of race being white, black or asian. I am very disappointed in this website now, you are just plain racist and are more than likely going to get sued one day for pissing of a large group of people, becasue believ it or not, not all races hate white people!
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Abagond, most whites don’t have the kind of power you are talking about, it is probably less than 5% so even though my skin tone may be closer to thiers (and actually I’ve said this before – I look kind of like Paul Sorvino from goodfellas, and sometimes I feel some judgement from fellow whites because of that, more than I do from blacks)
but I’m still classified as white and will always be, that classification in my or anyones lifetime on this blog won’t change.
so I personally don’t own the banks, cops, housing market, etc, and if whites run the housing market than why when an area becomes section 8 does the entire area become black if these whites that actually have the power care about other fellow whites that happen to be poor wouldn’t the area be given to poor whites. and don’t talk about white flight because some of the areas that this happen you see working class blacks move in that are totally not threatening, no the rich whites but up all the houses and don’t care who moves in because it is quick government money.
so in my eyes i see poor blacks coming up and poor whites falling further into crime and drugs, not a biased opinion ,I know people in areas that this happened to.
The only color that these rich whites that do run sh%t care about is green, so call me a white troll if you want to brothawolf , but you are dead wrong
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so that being said, because civil rights attorneys are there, the green people actually find it easier exploiting and hurting the poorest amoung their so called own race.
just look at the people of Appalachia , I’ve brought them up before, these people are all addicted to downers, and one of the huge drug companies just made one of thier base of operations there.
as far as black racists go, I think they are confused, and they lump ALL white people into the same pot, so you say I do the same things, but actually I don’t. I don’t have a propblem being courteous to a black person, but I think there are alot of black racists who, will back the thoughts of the dumbest black person, before the smartest black person, because color is so important to them.
If you truly are an anti racest you should not separate the two and be against racism in any form. otherwise you fuel the flame
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sorry I meant the smartest white person
and anti-racist
my keyboard is messed up
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“so in my eyes i see poor blacks coming up and poor whites falling further into crime and drugs, not a biased opinion”
Maybe you need to get your vision checked.
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“I think there are alot of black racists who, will back the thoughts of the dumbest black person, before the smartest black person, because color is so important to them.”
If that is what you think, you’ve proven, YET AGAIN, that you are racist. The only people who know how black people think are other black people. That’s not biased. To have a white person make such a statement proves that person’s arrogance.
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my vision is just fine ,
I’m speaking on personal experience ,
now you seem like the troll.
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dude I’ve proven IM a racist , you really need to look in the mirror jack
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wow……wow……… you really just said that the only person who knows blacks feelings are other blacks. Ive heard yours LOUD AND CLEAR over on your blog, when you tried to steal some of the attention from abagonds to yours.
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bottom line is you can make me the villian if thats what you want to do, but black racism does exist and it is growing like a cancer among some blacks.
But at the same time, there are many blacks who don’t think this way. But I don’t hear thier voice as loud lately.
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“dude I’ve proven IM a racist , you really need to look in the mirror jack”
As long as you acknowledge it…I KNOW I’m a racist as well. This is not to make you feel right, but it’s the truth. Now, with the other things you’ve said…
No one denies that black racism is real, but like the blog says, it’s almost always directed at other blacks by blacks (internalized racism), and black racism doesn’t have anywhere near as much power as white racism.
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Abagond, you are a breath of fresh air and so on the mark. Thank you for saying the things to us whites that many blacks are afraid to say.
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But at the same time, there are many blacks who don’t think this way. But I don’t hear thier voice as loud lately.
Go to kerchiefheads.com and you will see plenty there!
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Dude you NAILED IT! It has always been this way. And truthfully, White people never meant black people any good will. To this day I cannot STAND White people. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t go around hating or detesting them. I just prefer not to be around them or befriend them. The history of this country is self evident as to who they are. The Elites capitalized off Blacks and the poor are envious and scared of Blacks. Then you have the Media that portray us as as savages to make Whites feel good about their sorry lot. sad.
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@ Dave
You do not have to be a rich moneyman to have an effect on thousands of people. Teachers, doctors, policemen and newspaper editors all do. Nor do you have to be rich to benefit from white racism. Working-class whites, for example, live longer and have more wealth than even middle-class blacks. Without blacks and Latinos, poor whites would be paid less and be out of work more. Blacks and Latinos serve as an economic cushion for White America, both rich and poor.
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@ Slasher:
A white x (book, show, education, etc) is one made mostly by and for whites.
Likewise a black x (book, show, education, etc) is one made mostly by and for blacks.
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@ Dave
(Sigh…)
And “this” is a prime example of a reflexive white person readying their copy and paste one-liners, instead of actually reading what was said. This topic from the very beginning states that black racism exists. Next time, don’t demonstrate that you are willing to ignore facts that you disagree with, so you can spout your short sighted drivel, in order to create a distraction.
In terms of your earlier comment of Urban Decay, you DO know that white flight (with the diminished white middle class tax money) plays a big part in it, right? Your flimsy and anecdotal well-wishing example of “why this isn’t the case” doesn’t hold up in the face of historical evidence.
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@ Slasher:
It would not matter that whites ran things if they did it without being racist. But by how they act they make it matter.
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“…Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism. It is not equal and opposite. Instead it is different in scale and kind…”
I could not agree more with this. In fact. I even commented on this power dynamic before in a previous discussion where I gave my own analysis: (see below)
Lets be clear though in understanding one aspect of Racism.
If we are going to talk in terms of “Black racism”, “Black Racist” and “white Racism”, White Racist”. Then we need to express these things in different terms. Because clearly:
Black racism DOES NOT EQUAL white Racism
OR
Black Racist DOES NOT EQUAL White Racist
So it lends itself to confusion and mis-understandings when those same terms are used interchangeably. They obviously mean different things to different people. To believe otherwise is to DISAGREE with this post and its premise:
“…Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism. It is not equal and opposite. Instead it is different in scale and kind…”
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Where and when did the term “black racism” come from? Isn’t this a term white people created to deflect from the focus of the system racism white supremacy? This term is used and meant to cause confusion for people who are actually trying to understand and dismantle the system. I NEVER heard of such of thing before the Breitbart/Republican racist assault on Shirley Sherrod. Correct me if I am wrong.
@Dave said: “…Ive heard yours LOUD AND CLEAR over on your blog, when you tried to steal some of the attention from abagonds to yours.”
There’s plenty of room and racism to go around. There’s also need for varying opinions. I appreciate Brothawolfs many other bloggers here too.
Bev said: “Abagond, you are a breath of fresh air and so on the mark. Thank you for saying the things to us whites that many blacks are afraid to say.”
-Who’s afraid? All the non-white people I know, talk about individual acts of racism daily as well as some form of institutional experience.
When non-white people speak the truth about the racism white supremacy, it makes sense. In the context of white domination, the world makes sense…
I don’t like it, but it makes sense.
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I think people too often confuse/equate “racist” with words like prejudiced/bigot/biased/preference/hate. THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. It’s like comparing a grape seed to a whole watermelon. It is simply not the same! The controllers have deliberately refined the lexicon/meaning to obfuscate and water down the original meaning of racism/racist. It seems to be working. 😦
The only people that can be “racist” are the designers and beneficiaries of race.
The rest of us can only be prejudiced, biased, bigoted, hateful, resistant, etc… If everyone can be a racist, then what meaning does the word have?
Watch out for the ways of whiteness and how it subtly operates.
People of color can be a host of things, but “racist” isn’t one of them.
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Matari, being a racist is being stupid, it makes a couple of superficial characteristics more important than the shared interests caused by geography, economics, religion, culture, languague, education, politics, potential partners for relationships(all sorts) and even shared genome(i.e. being family).
If you are part of a jury, and it really matters to you whether the suspect and victim have type 1 or type 4b hair, you are a racist. If you know you are prejudiced against the accused because of his hair type, but you do your utmost best to overcome your prejudice, you are NOT a racist in my book.
Being obsessed with race, is just part of the US culture, allowing that obsession to lead to discrimination is what is making a racist. And yes, black people have power, money, influence, but largely it is still true that whiteys have more, so what? Is the bobcat not a predator because the cougar is larger? Not the same , but still both wild animals, both cats, or both racists, though different.
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@ Teddy
I’ve said this elsewhere, and it bears repeating:
When, or if, black people begin chaining, shipping, enslaving, selling, lynching, raping, oppressing, exploiting, shooting, jailing, whipping, maiming, torturing, evangelizing, robbing, stereotyping, bullying, segregating, building highways and thruways to dislocate, experimenting on, discriminating against, prohibiting, murdering, holding back in every imaginable way and HATING WHITE PEOPLE en mass via de jure and de facto racism for HUNDREDS of years, then and only then can calling black people racists, make sense.
Black people didn’t create this game. We don’t get to make or alter the rules, and we don’t derive any benefits from being in the game, regardless of what some voices are suggesting. The best we can do, imo, is try to end or stop the game – together, or as individuals, according to our own conscience.
I don’t expect to change your point of view. I’m certain you’re not going to change mine. I think we both understand where each other is.coming from.
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@abagond
I think you meant to answer my question in your response to slasher, as our questions were similar. I’d like more clarification than just ‘made by and for’, please. The only areas I could see a difference in the education system would be in History and English (with mostly black authors being used). It’s only a fraction of the entire system, but is it big enough to really sway the difference between a black or white education? Or are there more components to the black education?
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@ Teddy-
“being a racist is being stupid, it makes a couple of superficial characteristics more important than the shared interests caused by geography, economics, religion, culture, languague, education, politics, potential partners for relationships(all sorts) and even shared genome(i.e. being family).”
So Teddy, do we (WP & Non-WP) also share in the experience under the system of racism white supremacy? Or don’t you think such a system exist?
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“Being obsessed with race, is just part of the US culture, allowing that obsession to lead to discrimination is what is making a racist-”
Calling people obsessed and racist when they examine racism isn’t a nice thing to do, nor is it accurate.
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“Blacks understand whites way better than whites understand blacks”
I’d like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.
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If white racism isn’t deeply inter-woven into the fabric of American society, then why do WHITE attorneys with black clients who are defendants often fight against having an all-white jury? It’s because they KNOW that there is a greater probability their client won’t be treated fairly.
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@ Lara:
Are you serious? Not putting words in anyone’s mouth, but I couldn’t help but jump on this one. How can Black people NOT understand white people more? We live in a society where white images and lifestyles are EVERYWHERE. You turn on the TV or open a magazine and see commercials/ads targeted at the needs of white consumers. Take hair and skin product commercials for example. I know way more about the needs of white people’s hair and skin than they do about mine. Mainstream media (including Hollywood movies) gives us views into the lives of white people who are protrayed as the epitome of “average” Americans. You go to a liberal arts university where one of the main requirements for graduation is the completion of two courses in WESTERN civilization In high school, you are required take foreign language courses where you are only given EUROPEAN languages to choose from. You show up at work on March 17th and you are asked why you are not wearing green. There is the assumption that you are just supposed to embrace that part of the mainstream culture even though you are not Irish, Catholic or of European descent. I often wondered what would happen if I asked the same coworkers about what they did to celebrate Kwaanza or Juneteenth. You’re probably asking yourself, “What are Kwaanza and Juneteenth?” My point exactly.
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“You show up at work on March 17th and you are asked why you are not wearing green”
“You’re probably asking yourself, “What are Kwaanza and Juneteenth?” My point exactly.”
PRICELESS!!!!! Coming to this blog and reading the associated posts and comments such as these are much needed therapy….
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I would love to see a blog correspondence debate between Abagond and the writer of the blog, “Stuff Black People Don’t Like”.
There has been almost no logical opposition to the Alt-Right/Steveo/White Nationalist blogospheres where such blogs as Half Sigma, ONESTDV, Mindweapons in Ragnarok, Occidental Dissident and the previously mentioned SBPDL enjoy an almost cult-religious fervor in manufacturing lies about race, and especially black people, in the West.
I think Abagond could very well be the first true contender to upset their disinformation factory.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this proposal.
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Cosign!
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Some readers think I am just flipping the script, that I am a black Stormfront or something.
Whilst I don’t agree with everything you have to say, this quote tells you something about comparative standards of expected behaviour.
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@ Ruby-
“I think Abagond could very well be the first true contender to upset their disinformation factory.”
The existence of Abagond’s blog already upsets their disinformation factory.
I would like to see the so-called white anti-racist take on actual admitted racist over at the blogs you listed. I would enjoy reading that exchange!
Can you imagine, so-called white “allies” speaking truth to the system of racism white supremacy to other white people? Now that, would be enlightening.
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Racism asymmetry doesn’t make any form of racism better or acceptable. White or black, racism is immoral. Period
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Is there so called black racism? Yes, I bet there are some nutters who believe that black means pure racially and because of that black is good etc.
BUT!!!! Usually white America calls things black racism even when they are not. Malcom X, a racist! MLK, a racist! LL Cool J, a racist! Dave Chapelle, a racist! etc.
It seems to me that very often sharp political arguments, angry comments, frustrated out bursts etc. by blacks are called racist at once, when white guys can go on and on blabbering about this and that.
Black Panthers were compared to KKK and called racists etc. but like I sdaid before: check out the photos, films and texts. Yeap. They were actually talking with white men and women, doing stuff together etc. Marlon Brando met them and supported them!!
It is very simple to call black radicals racists in USA. That tactic has been used at least since 1950’s against any black movement, person, or this blog, which has been fighting against the racism in USA. It is the easiest and cheapest and fastest way to discredict anybody and very effective.
Just look at these “abagond, you have become a racist” comments and cries! The same old same old!
The opressed have a right to be angry, use strong words, speak out. It is up to the audience to be mature enough tio understand who is racist and who is not. And, it is very easy to spot in the end.
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Anon,
I’m sure your coworker who asked why you weren’t wearing green on St. Patrick’s Day was just being friendly, I doubt they were judging you. There are plenty of African Studies courses offered at local colleges if that is what you’re interested in. I’m most interested in American history and blacks are a part of that.
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Regarding black women’s hair. A friend once had a black girl come stay with her for a while. She washed the girl’s hair and then was completely at a loss as to what to do after that. I agree with you about white women not knowing how to care for or style black women’s hair.
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Matari; didn’t black people in africa have white people as slaves at the same time we did black, aren’t there countries in africa that still do slavery?
For a few centuries there, I believe there were more white slaves than black ones until around the 1500’s or so. Also wasn’t there an african nation that basically drove out all the white citizens it had?
Black racism, maybe weaker here in the US but elsewhere it can be just as strong.
That being said; yes on the whole white racism has a severe advantage in both numbers and power here in the US versus black racism.
I’ll celebrate kwaanza the same day I celebrate a white pride day.
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Saying the black panthers weren’t racist because they worked with white people is kind of like a white guy saying he’s not racist because he has black friends.
That being said; beyond a few video bits of black panthers going “Black Power, Black Power, Black Power!!!” I know nothing about them in all reality.
Also why would white people know about how black people take care of their hair etc….?
I mean for most white people its simple, shampoo, soap, old spice, brush your teeth and there you go.
There’s more of us, we live relatively segregated and most people don’t ask others about their hygenic habits.
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@ Sam
It is very simple to call black radicals racists in USA. That tactic has been used at least since 1950′s against any black movement, person, or this blog, which has been fighting against the racism in USA. It is the easiest and cheapest and fastest way to discredict anybody and very effective.
Was it on here that I read someone say ‘when White People get together its a ‘gathering’ but when Black People get together its a ‘movement’?
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Abagond:
The fundamental point that many whites overlook, is that, black people are victims of white slavery and racism. No matter how imperfect an individual black person may be, in terms of their attitude towards whites, it can never trump white supremacy. Black people have just cause to be angry about what was done to their race. Whites may not like it, but, they can’t speak on it. They can work with sincere whites and black people to fix the mess that was created, but they can’t tell blacks how they should feel about what took place…Bottomline!!!
Tyrone
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“Whites may not like it, but, they can’t speak on it.”
Of course we can. You don’t have to like what we say, but we should be allowed to speak freely.
“sincere whites”
What are the differences between sincere and insincere whites?
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@Anon
I often wondered what would happen if I asked the same coworkers about what they did to celebrate Kwaanza or Juneteenth. You’re probably asking yourself, “What are Kwaanza and Juneteenth?”
*Raises hand* I would like to know 🙂
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One thing you could do is throw a Kwaanza or Juneteenth party and invite your coworker.
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That’s how you get people into your holiday, you make it fun.
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Abagond:
Lara
Are whites willing to have an honest debate about race in this country and abroad? Whites say they want to get their hands dirty, and let it all hang out, Really? If whites aren’t willing to hear the ugly truth about what was done to blacks on this planet, Stop The Madness! Do the right thing, and blacks won’t have anything to fuss about. But, that’s not how it works. Whites don’t want to be equal with black people, instead, they want to exploit and control elements of black society that they are fond of. What do whites want from black people? What are they trying to accomplish, as it relates to black people?
Tyrone
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Black people were brought to the United States to pick cotton in the hot, humid south. Whites aren’t cut out for work in that climate.
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@Lara
Black people were brought to the United States to pick cotton in the hot, humid south. Whites aren’t cut out for work in that climate
Anybody can be ‘conditioned’ to do something which initially they may or may not be cut out for – what is your point here?
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My comment was in response to Tyrone’s question of what do white people want with black people. That is why your ancestors were brought over here. Cotton is now picked by machines.
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@MinneB,
“So Teddy, do we (WP & Non-WP) also share in the experience under the system of racism white supremacy? Or don’t you think such a system exist?”
It rather depends, cross-cultural studies indicate that the something like that has to exist indeed, on the wrong side of the Canadian border 🙂
To tell you the truth,
I consider this the most shocking picture of everyday racism, I know what it meant on other days, that is not the shocking part to me, but that people allowed racism to interfere with the sound running of a bussiness. Such a horror,…
And a horror that has etched itself deep in the minds of black people living in the States, really scary, and I guess that living in a society with such a past will screw up everybody, though not everybody to the same degree, of course.
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That picture isn’t overly shocking. It looks some people enjoying a day at the zoo.
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@Lara
My comment was in response to Tyrone’s question of what do white people want with black people. That is why your ancestors were brought over here. Cotton is now picked by machines.
My ancestors were fighting other battles Lara.
Meanwhile this response seems to address the past but not the present! Clearly I cant speak for Tyrone but his question and statement therein does not seem to suggest that he needs a history lesson, more that he was asking for a response to his question in the here and now
@Tyrone – apologies if I have misread this.
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Part of the problem inregards to black people and trying to deal with the problem of racism is the problem of classism as well.
Look at the healthcare deal; Obama tries to get a universal healthcare thing going for the poor and the rich go crazy….hell even the poor go crazy about it.
But what about the ungodly amount of money being given to the rich, to big business that won’t use it like it is supposed to.
The US still has some kind of medieval age nobility thinking going on when it comes to the rich and the poor that doesn’t quite make sense to me.
And anything that would be applied to black people would mostly likely be applied wide scale to the poor so as to avoid indications of racism or favoritism.
And maybe I’m pessimistic but I just don’t see that happening anytime soon.
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@ Lara:
I don’t doubt that whites who asked me why I was not wearing green on St Patty’s day were being friendly. Certainly there’s nothing wrong with celebrating St Patty’s Day, Kwaanza or Juneteenth. I was merely pointing out that black people understand more about whites and white culture than vice versa. White Americans don’t live in a non-white culture where non-white/European history, images, etc. dominate the media and everything else.
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Why is it so difficult for many white folks to understand that racism is oppressive not because white folks have prejudicial feelings about blacks, but because it is a system that promotes domination and subjugation? The prejudicial feelings some blacks may express about whites are in no way linked to a system of domination the affords us any power to coercively control the lives and well-being of white folks. That needs to be understood.
whites don’t understand fully the terrible nature of the system. The discrimination against blacks, reinforced by stereotypes and prejudice, actually creates a reality for blacks so ugly that whites are scared of their own creation. This then reinforces stereotypes, prejudice, and discrimination. But that is the way racist whites designed and want the system to work. (Except that it is working too damn well and creating too much crime even for them.)
Racism has to do with the power to dominate and enforce oppression, and that power in America is in white hands. Therefore, while there are instances of African American racial prejudice against whites in the United States today (often in reaction to white racism), there is no such thing as black racism. African Americans in this society do not have the power to enforce that prejudice.
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Abagond:
Demerera
There’s no misunderstanding sista. The point that I want to get across to Lara, is that, racism against blacks is deeper than money and power. If it was just about money and power, racism would have ended a long time ago. Blacks are not slaves anymore, yet, the hatred and envy still exist. I know the answer to the question, but, I wanna hear it from the horse’s mouth. Lara knows the deal. I’m not gonna give her a hard time on this issue, but, in due time the truth will reveal itself.
Tyrone
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Whenever groups like the Tea Party demonstrate against what they affectionately call “Obamacare,” I see people carrying “White Slavery” signs.” If they oppose it, why not carry “Taxpayer Slavery” signs?” The inference is that white tax payers will be footing the healthcare bill for shiftless, lazy non-whites who “don’t want to work.” I guess they don’t know that non-white people pay taxes, too.
Back to one of Abagond’s points. The media is VERY powerful. The images it shows affect how (some) people think, what causes they will support or condemn and how they will vote. Whenever a story is done on poverty, the unemployed or violence, guess what group is highly represented? I take everything I read, hear and see in the media with a grain of salt.
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I think it is misleading to classify blacks disliking white supremacy as “black racism” at all. What people often call “black racism” is but one of the NATURAL CONSEQUENCES of white racism. For white people, in general, to expect black affection while the latter endure a multi-generational system of white supremacy/racism is extremely presumptuous. Granted, through control of the propaganda/narrative, religious indoctrination, and the resulting black self-hate, it is not uncommon for whites to receive the perverse adulation they expect. In this context, black people who remain indignant at injustices and who agitate for change are viewed as strange and ‘radical’.
White people are nothing if not politically clever. Because black people have suffered under racism it is a rather powerfully negative word. By defining black group cohesion and self-interest as racism, in a system characterized by white group cohesion and power, black people are essentially divided and conquered. This has actually become more inisidious as racism has shifted from the overt forms to more subtle manifestations in which there is racism without (as many) avowed racists. During Jim Crow black people HAD to rely on each other and nobody who said that was ‘black racism’ could be taken seriously. However, in the absence of ‘whites only’ signs some may find such reasoning harder to dismiss.
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@Teddy-
Canada is not without issues of racism white supremacy.
The image of 1950’s segregated Memphis isn’t so shocking…unless you’re stuck in a time warp. Are you aware and shocked by anything more recent?
My parents might have that image “etched” in their minds, but the racist of my generation has imprinted the image, and impacted the lives of non-white children being denied access to a swimming pool in 2009.
WP have a long history and pattern of working against their best economic interest in pursuit of maintaining the system of racism white supremacy.
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@ Lara-
That’s right Lara, white people being instructed by their system of racism white supremacy isn’t shocking at all.
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black man this is how your white women really thinks when shes behind a computer. and yall marry these racist airheads.
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@Lara-
“One thing you could do is throw a Kwaanza or Juneteenth party and invite your coworker.”
Lara, How would you assure your non-white co-worker that you are aware of the system of racism white supremacy and how it operates on all levels of human existence? How would you demonstrate your personal awareness and appreciation of the significance of Kwanzaa and Juneteenth to your own life, so that you’d might be considered more than a mere spectator?
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I’d probably bring a bottle of wine. Would that work?
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@Ajahamza
The system benefits them. Why go up against something that benefits you?
Besides, at the end of the day, whites can cleanly separate themselves from blacks and black problems. They have that luxury.
On the other hand, blacks must struggle to find a respite from an ever-encroaching white presence, if they can find one at all.
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Exactly right. Exactly.
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“The system benefits them. Why go up against something that benefits you?”
Exactly, why give up the economic, social, and psychological benefits that come with White supremacy?
They will never change…….
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“I’d probably bring a bottle of wine. Would that work?”
Lara is just another concerned troll> Even if, with a strong emphasis on “if”, she had the guts to show up to Kwaanza or Juneteenth party in which she would be the token white person, she would probably spend the whole time trying to say that the reasons for these Black celebrations are not longer justified…..
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What’s Juneteeth?
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well doesnt the ” we are the 99%” movement tell you that there are many white people in the country hurting. and most of it doesn’t have anything to do with black racism, but some of it does.
didn’t the president say that a frank conversation on race needs to happen, but you have to listen to the other side and not set unrealistic rules to the conversation.
when you automaticly say that black racism is like a feather because of lack of power you automaticly make the conversation uneven and unfair.
I’ve been acused of not listening, but I’ve heard the same outdated veiw for ever
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Dave,
Whenever white people are hurting, it’s always an issue. When black people are hurting, it’s brushed off as whining. And how in the bloody hell does black racism has anything remotely to do with the movement?
The conversation is unfair because society is unfair on several levels including the issue with racism against POC.
You consider the view “outdated” because you simply have no interest in hearing the story from the “other side”. POC have tried to tell you and teach you, but you refuse to take them seriously. So, why should they – we – take you seriously?
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Abagond,
Interesting article, made me think as usual.
I may not relate entirely as i live in a predominantly black country, but I am curious on your (and any other commenter’s) thoughts on black “racism” in Africa specifically Southern Africa.
Namibia is one of the richest countries in Africa but the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a very small minority, mainly of European descent. The richest 5% of the population controls 71% of the GDP again mainly white people in an African country. Please see link below.
http://www.thisisafrica.me/city-life/detail/4174/Namibia-the-African-country-not-owned-by-Africans
Do you think Mugabe is racist? After all, he was taking back land that was historically black land? Not historically, like Israel argues but seriously people can tell you this is my grandfather’s land! Now, we may not agree with a lot of Mugabe’s policies but I think most black people understand the premise on which he begun.
What about white South African farmers who feel that they are increasingly being attacked on purely racial ideas? Same situation with Zimbabwe, no?
What are your thoughts? Same scale as white racism, which displaced millions of Africans in their own land? Or is it justice?
I would be very interested in having your thoughts (all of you).
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poc- that term is bull
my best friend in middle school was an immigrant from taiwan, and when we met in seventh grade he couldn’t speak english.
and he had no problem assimilating into the popular white crowd within two years, and some of the most popular people in school were black.
but if my good asian friend read some of this anti white crap on this blog his middle and high school experience wouldn’t have been as fulfilling, because you would have steered him the wrong way. who are you to tell an asian or indian person to hate whites and set up some white vs. everyone else mentality.
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I know it sounds simplistic, but all racial, cultural, religious, and ideological groups within America need to start communicating with each other a lot more. About EVERYTHING.
Not by trying to shout each other down, or discredit each other, not by trying to win the argument and convince as many people as possible of a specific position. Discussions and cultural advancements that badly need to happen are dying on the vine, because people can’t seem to come together and talk about anything in a constructive manner in the U.S.A.
The goal is always to create an enemy and to defeat it, which usually creates nothing but opposing ideological and cultural camps and sub-camps, and corespondent divisions in society. Ideologically we have liberals versus conservatives, which can be broken down into smaller groups like fundamentalist christians versus gays, or fundamentalist christians versus pro-choice feminists, or fiscal conservatives versus social progressives, etc, etc.
But ideology isn’t inborn is it? A christian can be convinced that gay people shouldn’t be second class citizens. A social progressive can come to believe that the expenses intrinsic to socializing medicine and improving public education would disasterously increase national debt.
But a person can not change their race, no matter what they become convinced of. Even if a black person were to somehow be persuaded of their own inferiority by a frothing neo-nazi moron, they could not then decide “Well, I guess I should change my race.” No more than white kids can become black because they think rappers are the illest hustlas on the planet (thank god for eminem?).
Certainly no one of any race can change their skin pigmentation or hair texture or facial features or genetic traits (well I guess you can go as far as Michael Jackson did, but he became a sad ghoulish shell of his former self, a testament to a sick society, he didn’t become a white person). Even culturally, it is difficult to unlearn the way you were raised, the norms and social conventions you had ingrained into you. Even if a person were to grow up in a culture where most of the people are of a different race, and share all of the cultural beliefs and norms of that group, the racial outsider is still always to some degree a cultural outsider.
SO unless one race wipes out or kicks out all the other, we are stuck living together. Different races living in one society can choose to live as adversaries and competitors, or in co-operation and harmony, or somewhere in between. Or we can live in different neighbourhoods from each other, and try to ignore each others’ problems. Which is sadly what ends up happening in America.
And of course the more numerous and powerful a race is in a society, the harder it is to ignore them and their culture. So white people can almost completely ignore say Korean culture, selectively ignore black and hispanic cultures. But no race can ignore white culture or white problems. White culture in America is hegemonic, whites from Europe lose much of their heritage in the melting pot (indeed, success in America usually hinges on conforming to white culture, regardless of your own race or culture), and problems that actually affect white people tend to get dealt with much, much, much, much ,much more quickly and effectively than problems that don’t affect white people.
I will leave you with a few questions though: What the fuck can really be done about any of this? What do you want white people to do? Not have a culture? Not have an entertainment industry that caters to them? Not solve problems that affect them? It is really hard not to favour your own group, at least at a sub-conscious if not overt level. It’s almost human nature. Admit it, if you’re black, you probably prefer the company of other black people for a variety of reasons, and you definitely care a whole hell of a lot more about issues that affect black people than issues that only affect Korean people, or hispanic people.
White people do the same thing. We are more comfortable among members of our own race and culture, and we care more about issues that affect members of our race and culture. Often sub-consciously, but if pressed many would probably admit it. I’m certainly not denying it. Again, favouring your own group is flat out human nature: doesn’t justify it, but it makes it a really hard habit to break.
But for most white people in this politically correct age, it is really hard for them to accept or admit that white people in fact do tend to look out for their own. And even if they do accept the realities of white dominance and privilege in America, it is really hard for white people to see how much and how negatively that tendency affects minorities. And it is especially hard for white people to even begin to imagine what can be done to change this in a way that leads to a genuinely improved society. I certainly am not arrogant enough to contend that I know the answers.
I guess it starts with “what can you do to fight human nature?” And I’ll say again, the beginning has to be the initial breaking down of the deep divisions and ignorance by simply talking to each other and coming to realize that we’re all human, with very similar wants and needs. If we fucked each other enough, we would become one race. Certainly we should be able to talk enough to become one society.
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@dave
“Anti-white crap”?
“US vs THEM”?
You’re really not getting the gist of our message. I don’t think you’d want to get it. Which is why you presented the antidote about your friend to give yourself a multicultural veneer before launching into your “anti-white crap” attack.
Your friend, a person of color (because I doubt Taiwanese immigrants would consider themselves “white”) overcame a language barrier and was welcomed into mainstream white society. He even got himself a few black friends along the way. In some schools, he wouldn’t be able to pull that off no matter how hard he tried to fit in.
And this is the set up, so you can ponder why blacks can’t just shut up and integrate themselves into the white American collective like all the other immigrants (save for some Latinos)? Why can’t the black community just embrace whites with open arms and live in “peace” and ‘harmony”?
And when they cite their valid reasons for not being able to do so, you declare them to be “anti-white” and accuse them of being divisive. Dismissal of valid claims plus a designation of “enemy” status until blacks decide to “mainstream” themselves and conform. I guess that was what you were going for.
Folks, it seems like blacks aren’t just “racist,” but they’re “anti-white” until they embrace integration into white American society on white American terms.
In other words, you are one arrogant prick.
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The main issues here seem to be the following:
– How whites brush off and ignore black concerns, unless there’s a benefit for them to do so.
– How said concerns are often called “whining” and “complaining”
– How whites would rather blacks simply shut up and fade away into the white American collective.
– How the refusal to do such is construed as “black racism,” et al.
– How most whites seem to not care about how blacks function within American society unless it involves 1)services, 2)crime and 3)entertainment.
The average white person sees the above and just hears “white white white white.” There’s no attempt to adjust the mental filter to hear anything but that. Just the subconscious desire that blacks should only be seen when appointed, but not heard at all.
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@MinneB,
Well, though swimming pools are of course important, I really care about zoos. I think of the zoo people, because in a way, they are my kind of people. People LIKE ME were involved in this, in a way harming the zoo. That shocks me.
And it shocks me, because I know that it wasn’t just Memphis back then.
If you want to know what I think shocking: A well traveled US-born black woman writing about a BW-WM couple in a commercial about mortgages, a black father cuddling with black baby in a commercial for baby lotion, a black woman in one for female hygiene products, as positive images, not shown in the US to a general public, in which the black part of the general public is twice as large…
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@V4:
“Saying the black panthers weren’t racist because they worked with white people is kind of like a white guy saying he’s not racist because he has black friends.”
And? What is wrong with that? What is your point? That only racist blacks and whites have friends who are opposite color??
If the friendship is genuine, real, then what is wrong with that? That is a proof in itself that so called race does not have to separate us. And the race system does not like it. If blacks and whites would fight against the System together, that would be the worst case scenario for the System. That is why the Myth of you-can’t-have-real-friends-from-opposite-race has to be upheld. That is why guys like panthers must be labeled racist, even when they were working with many whites from US and from Europe. That part of history must be re-written, with the emphasis on the racism of the panthers. You see?
Point is, Black Panthers were accused of being racist because they were radicals, they were leftist, and that is a very big No No in USA even today. If you are black and leftist, great gosh almighty the horror!!! Even Obama, a guy who would be considered in Europe perhaps a moderate conservative, is being labeled communist and what have you not in USA. Ridicilous but revealing.
The thing is that the System wants you to believe that fight against racism is not possible because of the racial differences. It is the Old old “conquer and divide” strategy. The racist System wants you to believe that the interests of the black people are against the interest of the white people. And their interests are against the latino interests, which are against the black interests which are against the asian interests etcetcetc. And while you keep thinking this, the guys on the top do things like the investment bank bailouts and steal billions, yes, billions of dollars from you, the average joe regular taxpayer.
See? These things are connected, just like the panthers said. They are not accidents, mistakes, historical natural phenomenas. It is a man made System. And we must bring it down, one day.
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@Abagond
Was there an event or occurrence that inspired this post? If so, what was it? I don’t understand what point you are trying to make. Like, I understand the argument about white people collectively being more powerful in American society, but WHY are you making it (again)?
Also, how does the last paragraph relate to this post? Are you implicitly making the argument that your racism is irrelevant bc of your status (black man in America)? I see premises, but I’m not quite sure what the conclusion is…
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I write my posts to be taken at face value. When people try to read beyond that they generally run into trouble since they start to assume things that I do not assume. Which is what this post and the last one are about at a more general level: commenters who assume things about my position (“flipping the script”, “dichomotous thinking”, etc) that causes them to misread me.
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“…. that causes them to misread me.”
@ Abagond
That’s an interesting point.
I don’t recall ever mis-reading you. I may not agree with your premise that blacks are (or can be) racists, but I’ve never misunderstood anything you’ve written. Your writing is as clear as crystal! In fact it’s so clear that it has shown me that there are “spiritual” aspects to race/racism/white supremacy.
Anyway, please continue to peel away at each new layer as it presents itself. I’m sure I speak for more than myself when I say that your steadfastness and dedication toward creating a “counter-racism” refuge is a most worthwhile effort.
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@mack lyons
do you think I was really thinking that way when I was a kid, I found common ground with someone because we liked doing the same things. I was impressed how quick he became so popular so quick, because he was smart. and nothing else.
If I went to taiwan noing nothing about taiwan and the language, I would not have been able to fit in so quick. because I am no where near as smart as him.
amd by the way, the black kids that I went to school with were cool as hell too
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and I should be able to give my opinion on blacks who judge people on color without saying that I don’t like all black people.
That is the premise of this blog in reverse.
almost like spy vs spyl
and I know I’m a little older than you guys but I was taught about the civil rights movement in school and I learned living in a mixed community that if someone said a racial slur against blacks even as a young child he was sometimes expelled for it, so instead of working it out, it divides people further.
uou think the anti racist opinions expressed on this blog are something new? and are the blacks that are riding the coattails of the civil rights movement coming up with something new or using it as a tool for anti ite hatred
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“In fact it’s so clear that it has shown me that there are “spiritual” aspects to race/racism/white supremacy.”
What? Don’t make it more complicated than it is.
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What? Don’t make it more complicated than it is.
It is more complicated.
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Abagond said:
But isn’t it just as wrong?
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“Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism.”
On a societal level there is some truth to this since whites have created the society we live in, however for individuals it doesn’t matter. A white person who is beaten up by a group of out of control blacks hasn’t suffered any less because the racism is different.
Also, holding yourself less responsible for your own views puts you in a more childlike position to us. We don’t hold children as responsible for their words and actions as we do adults. Just keep that in mind.
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@ Randy
No it isn’t Black racism is a REACTION to living in a society that is structured around White Supermacy: not every Black person is interested in being the noble savage who is just “happy” to be living around White people. Isn’t white racism wrong Randy? What are YOU doing to end it?
@ Lara
Also, holding yourself less responsible for your own views puts you in a more childlike position to u”
And Lara? What have White people taken responsiblity for? What have YOU taken responsbility for? Not a damn thing…Your talking points have been nothing more than feeble attempts to confuse, deflect, and walk away from the real issue: White supremacy (and white people’s ardent defense of it).
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“What have White people taken responsiblity for?”
White Americans have accepted responsibility for slavery.
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“What have YOU taken responsbility for?”
I’m nice to black people if they are nice to me. If I do something I believe is wrong to one of them I would apologize over it.
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@lara:
“On a societal level there is some truth to this since whites have created the society we live in, however for individuals it doesn’t matter.”
Well, that tells me that you really do not get it. There is no society without individuals who occupy it. So every single individual must wake up before anything happens.
As for the black racism, where do you think it comes from? From another parallel world, some kind of up side down world, whence the blacks mysteriously appear? If and when you meet a black racist, which is very very rare indeed, you see a person who has grown in the racist System. But since he is product of white originated racist system, he is a bit like a jewish nazi.
Most of the time the so called “black racists” are not racists. They are angry and frustrated blacks who have had enough of the System which automatically out manouvers them from the get go. Telling them that as a white person inside the System you know what is going on with them is like a spectator saying that he knows how it feels to be in 12th round of a professional boxing match in the ring.
I have been in the ring for six amateur rounds, taking a real beating, and still can not tell how it feels in pro ring after 12 rounds.
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“White Americans have accepted responsibility for slavery.”
LMAO!!! It wouldn’t be so funny if such a large number of Whites think the same way you do: thanks for exposing yourself for what you really are you troll!!! Whites NEVER accepted
responsibility for slavery: why do you think the KKK and the Black codes (segregation laws) were about??? Putting black people back in there place. Furthermore, a good portion of Northerns whites were against freeing the slaves, what do you think the draft riots were about????!!!? And lastly, nearly 40 percent of the Union army’s manpower were former slaves (who were paid less and given crappy equipment), and with out them the war would have been lost.
White people taking responsibility my A&$!!
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@ Randy:
Is black racism wrong? Yes, of course.
But is black racism JUST AS wrong as white racism? NO WAY.
That is like asking whether stealing candy is just as bad as robbing a bank. Maybe in a moral sense it is, but certainly not in the material sense of the harm done and the size of the crime.
What evil, terrible thing have blacks done to whites that they deserve 300 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow and 50 years of the racism we now know?
And what evil, terrible thing have WHITES done to blacks that they deserve what racism they have received from blacks?
Are you getting this?
If black racism were anything like white racism, the throat of every single slave owner would have been cut at the end of the civil war. And the riots in the 1960s would have burned down NOT black ghettos BUT the bosom of white suburbia. THAT is mirror image black racism. And even THAT would not be JUST AS wrong as what whites have expected blacks to suffer silently year upon year.
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“white person inside the System”
I don’t understand this. Whites don’t sit around together plotting and scheming about how to keep the black man down.
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@MK82
And Lara?………Your talking points have been nothing more than feeble attempts to confuse, deflect, and walk away from the real issue: White supremacy (and white people’s ardent defense of it).
I agree. Whether wittingly or unwittingly, Lara is coming across as patronising condescending, narrow minded and slightly vacuous yet tries to ‘teach’ life lessons to people who live the life EVERY DAY and dont need the perspective from someone who is so out of step its unreal.
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I never claimed to understand what it is like to be black, but I think I can speak on what it is to be white, although I’m just one viewpoint.
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@ Tyrone
Demerera
There’s no misunderstanding sista. The point that I want to get across to Lara, is that, racism against blacks is deeper than money and power. If it was just about money and power, racism would have ended a long time ago. Blacks are not slaves anymore, yet, the hatred and envy still exist. I know the answer to the question, but, I wanna hear it from the horse’s mouth. Lara knows the deal. I’m not gonna give her a hard time on this issue, but, in due time the truth will reveal itself.
Tyrone
I’m hearing ya, loud and clear Tyrone and its a thought provoking statement – shame though that your questions seem to have fallen on deaf ears… I too would like to see what the feedback to this is
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@Lara
I never claimed to understand what it is like to be black, but I think I can speak on what it is to be white, although I’m just one viewpoint
Ok Lara, fair enough but, the post itself talks about the fact that BP
understand whites way better than whites understand blacks: Because they have to just to feed their families in a society that is mostly white.
Because they read white books, watch white television, receive white educations, work at white companies, etc. They have to deal with whites. Meantime whites can avoid dealing with blacks or having to take them seriously
What i’m not sensing from you, is that you think there are any ‘real’ issues at all that are racially motivated. For example, you seem to downplay everything but when the REAL challenging and more thought provoking questions are post, you don’t respond. This is of course your choice but I am merely trying to explain how and why I have come to this conclusion.
It is the more pertinent questions that are posed on here where an ‘alternative’ viewpoint is what is genuinly sought after. These responses help aid cohesion and understanding going forward.
I find most posters have genuine questions and what they seek are honest answers and open minded people to engage with.
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” but I think I can speak on what it is to be white, although I’m just one viewpoint.”
That is the issue: this blog isnt about hearing white people’s views on racism, it is about POC views on racism (and by extension White Supermacy), how white racism operationalizes
itself, and strategies for POC to overcome. We get enough information about White people’s
perspectives from the media, our educational system, etc. Do u get it now?
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Then Abagond should make it clear he only wants to hear from black people. So far, he’s let all my comments through.
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@Lara
Wow… so if it is not about you then it is without you. what kinda logic is that ?
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@ Lara
I am done with you. You have yet to offer your viewpoints on WHY white supremacy exists, and why white people engage in systematic racism. I think we would ALL like your opinion on these questions. However, we DO NOT want your deflecting viewpoints on how white racism doesn’t exist, and how black racism is the “real” issue.
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@Abagond
When you look at this post at face value, the last paragraph makes absolutely no sense. You really can’t help but find a way to make it fit and that pretty much requires some guess work. That’s why I asked those questions (which isn’t the same as making assumptions.
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Can someone please define racism for me.
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@Lara
Then Abagond should make it clear he only wants to hear from black people. So far, he’s let all my comments through.
*sigh* We are not talking about banning you from discussion because you say you are white. Come on now Lara, you have found/discovered this thread somehow and put up a question presumably because you were intrigued enough in the discussion and wanted to hear the response. Others do the same, they respond to questions and have their own questions in kind hence a discussion forum which generates a thread of conversation.
You are sounding like a sulky child – not very appealing at all.
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MK82 said:
Individuals are accountable for their actions. I attempt to behave towards others in the manner I wish them to behave towards me.
Abagond said:
You seem to be suggesting that collective responsibility trumps individual responsibility.
If so, then who shall be the authority empowered to grant members of each group an allowable level of personal racism based upon historical grievances?
Without defining such exceptions and exemptions, one is inevitably proposing a double-standard, which is rightfully opposed by those who believe that all people should be treated as equals and be equally accountable.
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“You seem to be suggesting that collective responsibility trumps individual responsibility”
No he isn’t. Why don’t you try reading the mans words instead of putting words in his mouth?
“Without defining such exceptions and exemptions, one is inevitably proposing a double-standard”
Ohh
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@Lara
Can someone please define racism for me
To my mind it’s a negative way of thinking/behaving displayed by an ‘individual’/ ‘group’ of people towards another ‘individual’/‘group’ of people depending on their race/ethnicity/culture. Its about generalising the said race/ethnic group/culture and believing in the superiority of your own ethnic/cultural/race group above all others. The manifestation of this is unfair treatment based on perception where the individual who practices this behaviour has no regard as to whether their opinion is based on fact and chooses to ignore irrefutable evidence which proves that their biases are incorrect.
Others can describe it more aptly/succinctly than I, but for me, that’s the crux of it.
How would you define racism Lara?
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I think the term “racist” shouldn’t be used anymore just like we’ve decided the n word is wrong. Calling a person a racist is basically just a way to shut them up and dehumanize them. I believe black people should be able to freely express their opinions on whites or other blacks without being called a racist.
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“believing in the superiority of your own ethnic/cultural/race group above all others.”
I don’t believe my particular ethnic/culturural/racial category is superior in every way to others, it’s just what I am. For instance, I would look foolish trying to wear certain African styles I see in clothing stores. They look good on black women.
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I personally would like to read a little more about specific actions white people have taken against blacks and a little less about how white people think.
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Stop feeding the trolls people. Learn to spot them.
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@Lara
I personally would like to read a little more about specific actions white people have taken against blacks and a little less about how white people think
There are blogs on this very website which look at the ‘specifics’ that you question, however, unless you have been imprisoned in some sort of remote cult with no exposure to media or the world at large i’m sure there must even be some glaring examples even in your locality if you care to look!
Your’s seems to be a curious world Lara in which you equate the style of clothing and the wearers therein with racism and perceived superiority!!!!!
How about this statement BW look ‘hotter’ in fitted jeans than WW cos they fill them better? Is this a racist statement or just a true comment?
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@Sam
No; the claim was that because they were willing to work with people of an opposite race that they weren’t racist.
Which considering how abagond’s site alone has pointed out how white people working against racism can be damn near as racist as the very people they are trying to fight.
Especially considering I’m willing to guess that being in the position they were in and trying to fund a movement, they were willing to accept money from whomever they could get it from.
Or look at politicians; often willing to work with individuals/groups the total opposite of their own to advance their goals. Why should I think the Black Panthers are any different?
But really; if a video of various people in an organized group of some kind were to go around shouting “White Power, White Power, White Power!!!” would there be any question of whether they were racist or not?
If someone were to create a holiday centered around a general celebration of whiteness and called it “whitica” or something, would anyone not be kind of iffy about that inregards to racism?
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“How about this statement BW look ‘hotter’ in fitted jeans than WW cos they fill them better? Is this a racist statement or just a true comment?”
Some white women look pretty good in tight jeans and plenty of black women should not be wearing them. Black men seem to prefer a bigger bottom than white men in general.
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Can someone please define racism for me
L-A-R-A
I think the term “racist” shouldn’t be used anymore just like we’ve decided the n word is wrong.
How about gearbox instead?
Calling a person a racist is basically just a way to shut them up and dehumanize them.
No it’s not. It’s called if the shoe fits, wear it.
Some white women look pretty good in tight jeans and plenty of black women should not be wearing them. Black men seem to prefer a bigger bottom than white men in general.
Call gearboxesareus.com for further information.
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Stop feeding the trolls people. Learn to spot them.
It’s probably ‘Myself’ typing from his mother’s basement, hahahaha!!
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@ Lara:
Off the top of my head, here are a few that I have done posts on:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/07/28/2009/08/08/virginia-dotson/
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@Lara
Black men seem to prefer a bigger bottom than white men in general
Wow! You seem to know a lot about BP, you surely dont need to come on a site like this.
@ Lara ….a little less about how white people think’
The more I look at the syntax of this sentence and the more you post, I am convinced that you actually meant to write how about ‘white people think a little less?’
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Thanks Abagond, I’ll read through them over the next few days.
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V4: It seems that you just refuse to get it but I understand that. White american has a big problem because you live in the system, you are born and bred in a racist society around you. From the day one on.
White power means something totally different than Black power. Howcome? Well, first I suggest you go into some classes about symbolism so you get the basics of these symbols. Then you should learn something about politics in general. Then you should do some very serious thinking. Then you might get it.
Let me try to give a symbolic example: let us imagine that NFL team New York Jets would have a game against ten year olds from a little league. Jets players would shout WE ARE BIG AND WE WILL WIN. The kids would shout out: WE ARE THE GIANTS AND WE WILL WIN! Do the shouts of both teams have equall meaning? Do they convey the same message? Do they mean the same?
When a bunch of factory workers and day labourers were singing their songs in Finland in 1918 and marched to face a white army, which was lead by professional soldiers and singing their songs, assisted by imperial germans, supported by Sweden and Germany, were they on equal footing with their enemies? No.
When bunch of black university students and youths were shouting Black power, was it the same as when some sheriffs, town mayors, politicians, business owners etc. were shouting White power? When blacks, who had no support other than some friends and likeminded radicals, raised their fists and shouted Black power, was it the same when some whites shouted White power backed by city, state and federal officials?
The police, FBI, KKK and then some where actually shooting and killing these black guys shouting Black power. Nobody was doing the same for those guys shouting White power. And nobody is doing it today either. And you think they are the same? C’mon, man!
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@ Servius:
I think you may be right. I was thinking the same thing.
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“poc- that term is bull
my best friend in middle school was an immigrant from taiwan, and when we met in seventh grade he couldn’t speak english.
and he had no problem assimilating into the popular white crowd within two years, and some of the most popular people in school were black.
but if my good asian friend read some of this anti white crap on this blog his middle and high school experience wouldn’t have been as fulfilling, because you would have steered him the wrong way. who are you to tell an asian or indian person to hate whites and set up some white vs. everyone else mentality.”
And he wonders why I call him ‘Derailing Dave’.
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MK82 said:
Allow me to rephrase my original question with less ambiguity.
Abagond said:
Restated: But aren’t instances of black racism just as wrong as instances of white racism?
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@Randy
Restated: But aren’t instances of black racism just as wrong as instances of white racism?
Enough with the straw man argument! Everyone knows that racism, who ever chooses, to engage it is wrong. Abagond, and many others including myself, are saying that the impact of racism, i.e. disparities in wealth, education, quality of life, the defining of good and bad, are not the same when a black person does it!
OR as Abagond wrote “That is like asking whether stealing candy is just as bad as robbing a bank.”
White people are the ONLY group in this country to have the POWER to make racism a systematic problem (i.e. ever person of color is negatively impacted by it). If you don’t get it at this point, you never will, and I will consider whatever you say from this point a deflecting argument.
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Oh, here we go…
The setup for another distractive “Randy-esque Semantics Argument”. One that is based off of a singular element of something that is far more important.
He will have done one of two things by the end of his topic. He’ll argue an instance of black racism vs white racism, in a long an drawn out back and forth with someone, to conflate the two as a whole. OR he’ll just completely steer the conversation away from the bigger picture (white racism in it’s entirety) altogether, to the point that no one is discussing Abagond’s main argument anymore.
Let’s watch and see…
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Maafa 21 – The History of Eugenics In America
Black Genocide in 21st Century America
“A documentation of the modern eugenic movement in America.From the assertion of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution,coupled with his cousin Francis Galton’s correlation between genealogy,and the inheritance of intelligence.
Insisting that human beings are predisposed genetically to be unfit for society.
Nature versus Nurture.
This film follows the trail from its beginnings, in post slavery America,to its influence upon the Third Reich and its implementation of its Final Solution.
After the exposure this brought upon the movement,The eugenics movement morphed into what we know today as Planned Parenthood.
You will be astonished to learn that Planned Parenthood kills more African American people every year through abortions,than are killed from every other cause,Combined.Truly horrifying! An eye opener”
Abagond, I don’t know whether you’ve had a chance to view this doc, but I was wondering if you could look a do a post on it when you have the time and/or shed some light on the topic in any manner way you see fit.
Thanks. if I posted in the wrong place feel free to delete.
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“Everyone knows that racism, who ever chooses, to engage it is wrong.”
Everyone does not know this. Also, I have yet to get a clear definition of racism besides some nonsense about having bad thoughts about another race or ethnic group.
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If we’ve committed genocide against blacks why are there still so many of you?
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How was Hurricane Katrina something white people did to black people? We don’t control the weather.
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@Lara
“Everyone knows that racism, who ever chooses, to engage it is wrong.”
Everyone does not know this. Also, I have yet to get a clear definition of racism besides some nonsense about having bad thoughts about another race or ethnic group.
I also recall asking you what YOU understood by this term and don’t recall getting a response! I broke it down into the most simplistic terminology I could think of yet still you choose not to get it.
BTW, the only person making nonsensical comments on here is you. Yet again, you refuse to see what is right in front of your very eyes.
*sigh* You can’t argue with stupid
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John Pilger – War by Other Means (actual doc)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5399796928596929639#
condensed version of War by Other Means
IMF & World Bank are weapons of war , by John Pilger
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Confessions of an Economic Hitman part 1/4
“In his controversial book, John Perkins tells the gripping tale of the years he spent working for an international consulting firm where his job was to convince underdeveloped countries to accept enormous loans, much bigger than they really needed, for infrastructure development–and to make sure that the development projects were contracted to U. S. multinationals. Once these countries were saddled with huge debts, the American government and the international aid agencies allied with it were able, by dictating repayment terms, to essentially control their economies. It was not unlike the way a loan shark operates–and Perkins and his colleagues didn’t shun this kind of unsavory association. They referred to themselves as “economic hit men.”
http://www.bkconnection.com/ProdDetails.asp?ID=1576753018
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Just reading the comments here amazes me how some people still don’t get it. Wake up and smell the coffee for gosh sakes!
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Why do I have to define the word racism? I’m not the one throwing it around left and right.
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“I broke it down into the most simplistic terminology I could think of yet still you choose not to get it.”
I didn’t really disagree with what you said so much as I disagreed there was anything wrong with it. Your definition of racism sounded pretty much like human nature to me.
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@ Anon & Servius:
It’s definitely obvious which topics bring the trolls a-running! 😀
It was also obvious that ‘Lara’ was a troll from its first post…hey! I had a thought! Maybe ‘Lara’ is the ‘wife’ of that one troll, you know, the one who was “raped twice by black men” and “screwed up her face into an exquisite sneer” over the topics of this blog – haven’t seen a comment by that one lately!
@ Franklin:
You bring the popcorn; I’ll bring the ale! 😎
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Lara,
Why are you here?
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I beginning to ask myself the same question.
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Re: the current “troll” festivities
Props to you folks who are (toying) trying to reason with/illustrate/teach the mentally deluded and logic challenged people that “come out at night” when they smell yet another opportunity (feast) to be deliberately ignorant!
The trolls serve as practice (tasty morsels) for honing one’s arguments (teeth) that will likely be useful in a more (sur)real (life) setting – when or if that time comes.
allegorically speaking
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“Also, I have yet to get a clear definition of racism besides some nonsense about having bad thoughts about another race or ethnic group.”
Precisely.
I’m certain there are many black people whose default posture towards a strange white person is distrust. However, black people have never created or sought to create a system that seeks to predestine — known and unknown, born and unborn — white people to inferior positions based on their race. But the inverse of that, orchestrated by white people, is what every black person born in the last several centuries is pressed into combat with. And fight one must or succumb to povery, self-hate etc.
I don’t think RACISM is primarily about thoughts. It’s about REAL existential disparities based on race. A disparity is, by nature, a polarization and the disparity isn’t simultaneously polarized in opposite directions. Black people did not enslave white people at the same time and place that white people enslaved black people. Police do not shoot and kill black men at a higher rate while simultaneously shooting and killing white men at a higher rate…and so on. So RACISM is by nature UNIDIRECTIONAL. The side that is RACIST occupies the positive end of all racialized polarization while its VICTIMS occupy the negative end. It’s ludicrous to say black people are racist when whites have accumulated the advantages at their expense.
I’d consider individuals to be racist if they are commiited to a racist system. And since only those that benefit (or are insane) could possibly be for it, only whites can be racist. However, in a racist system individuals on both sides are frequently prejudiced and prejudice is thus BIDIRECTIONAL. White people prejudge black people based (primarily, IMO) on ideas promoted by the racist system. Their prejudice buttresses the system by perpetuating inequities and cementing a negative view of racism’s victims. Black people (esp. the more ‘aware’) also prejudge white people. Especially in earlier times, doing this well was a matter of life and death as poor Emmet Till had yet to learn. Even now, understanding that a (white) policeman is more likely to use deadly force on a black person (esp. man) could save one’s life.
I recall that I used to lump together prejudice and racism when I was confused. That’s because white people do that and their viewpoints are given a lot of airtime. Since they can experience black prejudice but are not victims of racism they equate the two and claim that ‘everybody does it’. Now I understand racism as a purely asymmetrical construct that generates symmetrical prejudice. That is, racial prejudice is but a symptom of racism. That’s why any effort to remove prejudice on any side while maintaining the system of racism and the disparities it establishes is doomed to failure. The racist system itself will always manufacture more racial prejudice due to its inherent compartmentalization by race.
“Cut off my legs and call me shorty”.
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“The racist system itself will always manufacture more racial prejudice due to its inherent compartmentalization by race. ”
“Cut off my legs and call me shorty”.
By this, I mean it attempts to put individuals into economic (for example) boxes based on race. And as it succeeds then the basis for a prejudicial stereotype is reinforced: a positive feedback loop.
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CAPITALISM IS PURE EUROPEAN ACCIDENTIAL EVIL
Europeans came out of the Dark Ages and Bumped into Capitalism. From the 5 century until 1350 White folks were backwards and heathens. Read your literature!!! The Catholic church Ruled! It wasn’t until the Jealous Pope ordered Knights to go to Muslim countries and Plunder did Europe come out of the Dark Ages. These Knights came back with KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge Europeans did not know nor create. Mathematics, Sciences, Astrology et.al and the Alpha and Omega….(the one that will make EVERYBODY and their momma obey), GUNPOWDER. Thus, Europeans began traveling and building bigger boats. These maritime travelers and commodity sellers became the MIDDLE CLASSERS. Something New in Europe, since Europe only had the 1% and everybody else was BROKE/POOR/BUSTED/HUNGRY/RAGGEDY/HAGGARD. LOL. Well, it’s the truth.
Anyway, So These seafaring (middle-classers) were making loot. Thus, making LOOT became the name of the game in Europe. And along with the COMPASS -that the KNIGHTS STOLE FROM THE MUSLIMS -they could sail the Rugged sea. Europeans started indenturing White prisoners/ Indians to till the land for sugar/cotton/tobacco . THEN ole musty boy Christopher Columbus bumped into Dominican Republic and IT WAS ON!!!!
Since the Bishop of Mexico begged the pope for Black slaves instead of the indigenous and thus began the MOST MASSIVE FORCED MIGRATION UPON A PEOPLE EVER!!!
CAPITALISM WAS ON AND IT BECAME BOOM TIME FOR EUROPE!!!!!
So you see, (We) Blacks and Muslims Created the Wealth that you white people enjoy today. Everything ABOUT Europe/America came either off our forefathers sweaty backs/our forefathers land/ the American Indian land/ the south American indigenous land et.al.
And you have the unmitigated GALL to BELIEVE you are not RACIST??? You should KISS EACH AND EVERY BLACK/ARAB/AMERICAN INDIAN MAN, et.al FEET ON SIGHT!!!
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This is an example of how white prejudice is generated by and works hand-in-hand with the racism. In the logic of the white bank worker a black man depositing a relatively large check is immediately suspicious. Why? Because America’s economic system is racist from inception and should have ensured that he is poor. Therefore he must be operating outside the established laws. So s/he arranges for the the police to arrest him, he spends the whole weekend in jail and ends up losing his job and car. Thus, he is treated like what he is expected to be and is in the process reduced, in some measure, to that state.
He seems like a person who was still a bit naive and caught like a deer-in-the headlights.
I would have told the teller to stop fn interrogating me and deposit my check (though five years ago I probably wouldn’t have).
I only hope he sues for damages and doesn’t settle for anything intangible like an ‘apology’.
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Quote from above “There is nothing like the black Klan. Some whites think the Black Panthers were like that, but they never went into white neighborhoods to spread terror and lynch white people.”
I disagree, forced integration of schools, and to a lesser extent neighborhoods has led to higher crime. Especially black on white rape. But that is another subject.
I am white and I think most of our problems come from integration. I believe that each people should have their own government and separate homeland. I respect Black Separatists to the highest degree, because they want the same thing I want. A homeland. You want your 40 acres and a mule. I say we let ya’ll have at least GA,AL,MS,and FL. That’s right, you can have it : )
Of course relocation for the whites living in the south, and black living in the north and west. Fair trade?
I also disagree that the whites own the banks, and media. That would be the Jews. That is pretty much unquestionable.
Once again, I respect Black Separatists, not Black Supremacists.
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It’s funny how white people are always looking for a homeland in other people’s ancestral homelands. This is the crux of the problem of ‘integration’. It started when white people couldn’t stay where they ‘evolved’: Europe.
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@origin : I very much doubt mr pahana here understands such a difficult concept as homeland, its various meanings, other than the ones they used in South Africa and in some stormfrontesque babblings.
Also the comment on the jews is pretty much revealing.
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“…Forced integration of schools, and to a lesser extent neighborhoods has led to higher crime. Especially black on white rape. But that is another subject.”
Here we go again with the blacks committing more crime and black-on-white rape bullshit again! It’s like most of you whites all have the same damn responses when racism comes up! This is getting old. Seriously. It’s like whites don’t commit crimes, especially rape, in their minds. It won’t register that whites commit more crimes and a whopping large percent of rape is intraracial which means while they’re worrying about a black rapist, somewhere white dudes are busy right now raping white women. But are they worried about that? Hell no. As long as the rapist is black that’s a cause for a major concern.
Good freakin grief!
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@Lara
Why do I have to define the word racism? I’m not the one throwing it around left and right.
Why not? BTW, you joined a conversation that has ‘racism’ in the title so you must have understood it on some level. Dont tell me that you’re that stupid that you would join a discussion without really knowing whats going on.
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@pahana
I also disagree that the whites own the banks, and media. That would be the Jews. That is pretty much unquestionable.
Ah! So Jews aren’t white then????
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Hey Abagond,
I am French so please pardon my english….
Anyway, I just wanted to let you now that in France, blacks have a n.world for whites: it is a colloquial world “toubab” or in slang “babtou”. It comes from a senegalese language…
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@Lara
You want your own point-of-view validated. And you thought you could get some form of validation by shooting down the so-called “racists,” who are only people who 1)understand the effects racism has on the black community and 2)are only attempting to get you to understand how the entire concept of “black racism” is a joke when compared to the institutionalized prejudice of whites against black human beings throughout American history.
But no. You’re not hear to learn anything. And you don’t want to listen unless we say something that validates your point-of-view. That makes further conversation with you a fool’s errand. Unless, of course, you are willing to open your mind a little.
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@pahana
I’m sure the Native Americans wanted their homeland, too.
@sam
The concept of a “homeland” to the average Stormfronter is a working version an SS-Waffen compound.
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“In the logic of the white bank worker a black man depositing a relatively large check is immediately suspicious.”
Thanks for posting that video! Reminds me of the one I saw where TWO black men are arrested simply for strolling into a bank, together. Apparently they weren’t “acceptably black” or acceptably dressed – or both.
Just more evidence of a Post Racial America 2011 {{cough – cough}} – w/a black POTUS
re posted video:
Does anyone still wonder why we have higher hyper-tension rates?
(@ MinnieB .. Or why a young white male masquerading as a black man could only conduct his personal experiment re living in darker skin for only a few hours??)
No apology after a year, lost his car and work?
Confinement – Embarrassment.- STRESS.
He should do like “they” do. SUE. He suffered plenty!
In fact, we (as a collective) “should” have “the right” to bring the biggest class action suit, ever, for historical and present day losses and damages in the trillions of $$$,
How fortunate (for them) in this racist system it’s “the oppressor” who gets to decide how much he’ll pay, that is if he’s even willing to pay or permit the matter to proceed to litigation. Hasn’t happened yet. Why?
America has an awfully HUGE comeuppance/pay-back waiting for her.
Obama’s former minister, the now retired Rev J Wright was absolutely correct!
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@ pahana
You wouldn’t by chance be the infamous Edgar J Steele, would you?
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@mack lyons: 😀 Oh man, split my pants laughing for that one!!
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MLK commenting on the Watts riot:
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Why are black people always saying they are going to teach me something? We are adults having a discussion and hopefully we will each learn something. I can’t imagine coming on here and claiming I’m smart and knowledgable enough to educate you all. Show a little humility.
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So if you guys were offered a huge chuck of the southeastern United States you wouldn’t take it?
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Origin,
I did not understand your comment at all.
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“are only attempting to get you to understand how the entire concept of “black racism” is a joke”
I have a feeling the white victims of violent black animals would not find it funny.
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Looks like this discussion is getting out of conTROLL.
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@ Lara
Thanks for totally derailing, what started out as a really good discussion on Abagond’s post.
“I have a feeling the white victims of violent black animals would not find it funny.”
Violent black animals!?!? But the Whites who ran over and killed a black man in mississippi because they wanted to kill a nigger are what? Seriously why are u here?
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@ Lara:
I was going to delete your last comment but people need to see you for who you are.
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@MK82:
Why are you still engaging? Hopefully the troll will go away and not resurface as a sock puppet.
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Calling extremely violent criminals with no respect for human life animals isn’t wrong since they are acting that way. I wasn’t talking about most black people, just the few who commit these violent crimes.
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My point is that you can joke and laugh about how funny black racism is, but for the victims of it it can be a real tragedy.
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@lara: So the white soldiers in Abu Graib were animals? They tortured, murdered and humiliated helpless victims for fun for months and months. What? They were not animals? Well, right. They were white women and men doing what they liked.
And guess what? You are one of them. “Black animals”, “So if you guys were offered a huge chuck of the southeastern United States you wouldn’t take it?”. Those words come from the same direction.
You tried to portray yourself as a simple white female but these wordings reveal that you are actually a troll from the stormfront abyss. Bye bye.
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@Franklin:
Let’s watch and see…
My money’s on Lara, hahahahaha!!!
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“So the white soldiers in Abu Graib were animals?”
They certainly were acting like animals.
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When someone acts in an animalistic way I don’t see why it is so wrong with referring to them that way. People do it all the time.
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@ Franklin:
You bring the popcorn; I’ll bring the ale!
I don’t drink so bring some ginger-ale!
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“people need to see you for who you are.”
Another person with opinions that might not always be exactly what I want to hear.
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I believe that each people should have their own government and separate homeland.
There is a special at gearboxesareus.com. 100% off one way flight to Europe!
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Forget the white homeland thing, black people will never let us leave.
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@Lara,
“Forget the white homeland thing, black people will never let us leave.”
I have watched the evolving comments on this post and I must say I am surprised by this comment…..NOT!
I knew something like this was coming.
You know if you are really against racism (any form of it) please move over to Stormfront and any of those other White Supremacist sites all over the inter-web and argue against it as you are now…..but you won’t. So moving on.
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*Sighing and rolling my eyes.*
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😀 Funny thing, animals do not usually torture, they hunt and kill for food. Man is an exception. So when human tortures or acts sadistically he/she is very much human, not “animalistic”.
This is very weird indeed. Herneith, spare me some ginger ale.
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Wow! Where do these trolls find you, Abagond? You must be striking a nerve or something! Keep at it, Abagond 🙂
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Oh yes, it shocks me the way you all use the term “race” GOD created the “Human” and White people created Racism in the mid seventeen hundreds.
Johann Blumenbach is the White man given credit for setting up the first system of classifying Human from best to worst. Of course he put Caucasoids at the top, and Africans at the bottom thus causing all of the death and violence heaped on GODS chose people Africans.
Here is a lot of information on the “White” man who started RACISM
http://tinyurl.com/3hytu87
Try and name some other RACES besides the Human race. What you are actually talking about is an “Ethnic Group” not a race.
Chinese, Japanese, Thais, Filipinos, Koreans, Burmese, are all Human beings. However they belong to different ethnic groups. They have different languages, cultures, methods of food preparation, home building, etc
Swedish, Danish, Finish, Germans Swiss, Austrians, French, Italians, English, Americans, Belgium, Holland, Irish, Scotch, Spanish are all White people and all Humans. However, they belong to different ethnic groups.
There are about 47 countries in Africa. They are all mostly Brown, or Black people, but they speak thousands of different dialects, and have different ways of looking at the world. They are ALL Humans just as much as the genetic mutant people, but they belong to hundreds of different ETHNIC GROUPS; not RACES. Got it!
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ImHotep,
Someone here started their post with totally incorrect terminology. That makes a lot of the rest of it bogus as far as I’m concerned. Black people are NOT RACIST!!! We are frigging angry at how we get treated by MOST Pink Africans.
If you, White person, approached me with your hand extended to shake hands, and I waited until you were close enough, then I stomped on your foot really hard causing you to scream out some curse words at me…would you then be a RACIST? Or would you be angry as Hell for my stomping your foot?
Here is the dictionary definition of “Racism” I think Agabond and everyone else here would be wise to use that and not their own incorrect definitions. Otherwise it is difficult to have a sensible conversation.
Entry from Oxford English dictionary
Pronunciation:/ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
[mass noun]
• the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race , especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:theories of racism
• prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism
This applies to about 80% of Pink Africans, Asians, and most other ethnic groups that seek to be White.
We sane, intelligent, Black people have no desire to have Albino genetic mutant skin, with no color. That is not a normal condition. Most people on this planet are colored people. Black, Brown, Red, and Yellow. It is Caucasians who erroneously think that having skin with no melanin makes them superior to and have the right to rule and destroy others with more beautiful colored skin. BLACK PEOPLE are angry as Hell and White would be too if the positions were reversed. So stop calling Black people RACIST. I have never met any Black person who says they hate people because they hate their skin color. It is most always because of the violent, ways they treat us in all the areas mentioned in the first post, When people begin calling us Racist, I know that despite their intentions they are pumped full of it themselves and trying to move the blame on to African Americans. Don’t do that please. You are showing that you are not near as well informed as you believe yourself to be.
Amen-Ra
Pass this one to people who are in need of saving a lot of money
http://www.freeusadrugplan.info/cbj
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White liberals play this false equivalence game all the time. In their silly little white supremacist infected minds, Black rage in reaction to racist oppression is the equivalent of White supremacist aggression and dehumanization. White liberals seem to be less racist than their conservative counterparts but both subscribe to a white supremacist worldview.
On a liberal website there was a post about a Black woman who said she was racially abused and treated badly at one of the Occupy Wall Street events and because of that wouldn’t be going back, the reaction of the White liberals was very telling. They basically blamed her for being mistreated and disbelieved her account, they couldn’t even imagine that she might just be telling the truth.
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Thank you for pointing out my error in posting to the wrong thread Abagond.
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The main point of “Blacks are racist too!” and imagining black racism as being the equal opposite of white racism is to EXCUSE white racism as no worse than what black people do. Just like how a commenter yesterday excused the genocide of Native America by pointing to the wars between Native Americans.
First, the equivalences are false due to the extremely different scale of white crimes.
Second, even if the equivalences were true, if say black racism was JUST AS bad as white racism, as Randy seems to want to believe, it still would not MORALLY excuse what whites have done. “He did it too!” does not even work for eight-year-olds.
The truth is white crimes against Black and Native Americans were completely UNPROVOKED. Whatever has been done against whites does not BEGIN to match what whites have done.
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If believe someone is a troll the worst thing you can do is to feed their need for attention.
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Wow! I finally found a group where the people have good sense and the ability to place the blame where it belongs.
The CNN discussion group, the FOX group and thousands of other sites where Caucasians attempt to discuss White Supremacy/White Racism are full of people with opinions, but very little factual knowledge. It looks like things will be less stressful here. I’m glad I stumbled up on one of your posts Abagond. It is very rare to see Asian people speak out supporting African Americans. I have never seen that happen on the CNN discussion group. The page has over three million people on it. So I would think the discussion group would have at least 30,000 people who monitor it even if they are afraid to speak up for fear of being targeted by their employers, or neighbors.
Live strong and Prosper! 🙂
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Oh yes always remember that Scientists have proven conclusively that ALL Human life originate in Ethiopia. Adam and Eve were Black skinned people. Not Europeans. Not Asians, or Arabs.
Skulls confirm that we are all out of Africa.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/18/us-evolution-skulls-idUSL1885586220070718
Where did Human beings originate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
http://blogsci.com/science/humans-really-did-come-out-of-africa
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Furthermore, if you are a Christian, then you should know that ALL the people in the bible from Jesus to Moses are said to be Black people, or you can infer that from looking at what the scripture says.
White is NEVER mentioned except in terms of someone catching Leprosy and turning white as in this story about GODS right hand man Moses, and his Black Ethiopian wife.
Numbers Chapter 12 King James Original bible
1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
4 And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother’s womb.
13 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.
15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.
16 And afterward the people removed from Hazeroth, and pitched in the wilderness of Paran.
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Phd Akbar lays it out this way about White thinking, and why he feels, and I agree with him, that most Pink Africans are critically mentally ill. Their brain computers are chock full of viruses, worms, root-kits, Trojans, browser hijackers, and other malware that stop the Human brain computer from reasoning and functioning at more tha about 30% Especially on the subject of White Supremacy. That part starts at 4:25 second. However, the entire video is fascinating.
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“if say black racism was JUST AS bad as white racism”
Actually it’s often worse which is why we shouldn’t ignore it.
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@Lara
Lara
“if say black racism was JUST AS bad as white racism”
Actually it’s often worse which is why we shouldn’t ignore it
Considering you asked for a definition of racism I am surprised you are able to categorise it in terms of which is ‘worse’!
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I don’t really buy into the whole concept of racism, I think it is merely human nature. Maybe not the best of human nature, but human nature nonetheless.
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@ Robert
“White liberals seem to be less racist than their conservative counterparts but both subscribe to a white supremacist worldview.”
That’s what I have telling Black people from day one! ALL White people believe in and defend White Supermacy: their whole identity is wrapped up in it. Some of them, i.e. Liberals, believe in a kinder and gentler form of white Supermacy, but it is still white Supermacy none the less….
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No, not ALL white people. Blanket generalizations are annoying and disruptive.
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@Sam
Were not arguing that the Black Panthers are in a weaker position to do racists acts than the KKK, just that they might be racist in the first place.
It doesn’t seem like you really disagree with that assessment.
Now; I could be wrong, I’ve admitted from the get-go that I don’t really know anything about the Black Panthers.
But if they truely believe in Black Power, than it would seem like they wish to rule over “all” races, not just white, dictated by the fact that the black race is the superior one.
That seems pretty racist to me.
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@Demera
Jews aren’t technically white, they have on average 3-5% african in them.
1 drop rule
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@wanpimao
Yes ALL White people. Sorry to be so “annoying” and “disruptive”, because, of course, we need to stat focused on what YOU think is important. Robert, myself, and a host of other posters (with emphasis on the racist ideas of white liberals posters) have give enough examples of WHY we believe this to be true. Where is YOUR evidence to prove otherwise???
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@brothawolf, sorry it took so long to respond, you guys are hard to keep up with ,
the way black racists have an small impact on the we are 99% movement is when they blockade programs, grants, scholarships etc. when it would really help the very poor whites. why should anyone care if someone really needs the help?
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@MK82
It’s actually that you haven’t provided proof of ALL people. I’ve met plenty of very active anti-racist whites who do not believe in supremacy of any type. Even just one discounts your statement of ‘all’ white people.
Blanket generalizations are disruptive because it’s just another way to dehumanize people.
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@V-4
@Demera
Jews aren’t technically white, they have on average 3-5% african in them.
1 drop rule
Aha! The ole 1 drop rule. Think you would have to agree that this would be hard to prove in todays society. Do you know how many non practicing Jews there are or those who anglicise their names to blend in to ‘white’ society out of perceived necessity?
In terms of your response I guess it would be called ‘passing?’
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@wanpimao
” I’ve met plenty of very active anti-racist whites who do not believe in supremacy of any type.”
That is easy for you to say. I run into White people all the time who are “against” racism, but have NO interest in changing the system THEY benefit from. I highly doubt that these people YOU talk about are ready to put there privilege on the line…
“Blanket generalizations are disruptive because it’s just another way to dehumanize people.”
Wow! White people being dehumanized? That’s a new one: are we engaging in the oppression olypmics now? Explain to me how this would happen? What “power” do POC of color actual have to, as YOU say, “dehumanize” White people?
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I’m starting to get the feeling some people don’t know what “Black power’ means. I’ve very very rarely heard it mean “I want to rule, rape, enslave, murder, or destroy you” it usually means “Get your effin boot heel off my neck, I’m a human being and I’m tired of you taking, taking and taking and expecting me to be happy for your crumbs”.
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“White people being dehumanized?”
For starters by calling us racists when we dare to disagree with you.
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@ Dave
What did that video have to do with phantom black racists blocking white scholarships and negatively impacting the “We Are 99 Movement”?
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@ Lara
No one called you a racist, the words that you typed did that for you!
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“anglicise their names to blend in to ‘white’ society out of perceived necessity”
Or possibly just to fit in and assimilate. Blacks have taken white people’s last names and no one is criticizing them for it.
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Look, despite what you may think, I’m not defending white people. I agree with you wholeheartedly that many (most?), while they may not feel they are racist, are not going to change the system because they benefit from it. Therefore, despite their personal views, they are supporting a racist system.
However, there are some who are actively anti-racist, and I used the word ‘actively’ to demonstrate that yes, they are trying to change the system.
I am just conflicting with you regarding blanket statements. Making and supporting such generalizations only encourages more of it to happen. It’s blanket generalizations that put us in this mess in the first place. It’s not going to help us get out of it.
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Lara, here’s the deal:
The subject of race and racism is meant to be an honest discussion and ability to tell truths and learn from them even if they go against the popular mindset of most whites. If you are not prepared or capable of learning or contributing anything valuable to this thread, why are you here?
It’s become MORE than obvious that you came to project your “I’m white and I know more about this subject than you” arrogance around. That is why people think your just trolling around and won’t take you seriously, not because your a white woman.
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@
“anglicise their names to blend in to ‘white’ society out of perceived necessity”
Or possibly just to fit in and assimilate. Blacks have taken white people’s last names and no one is criticizing them for it
Where was I critical?
On the other hand, how often have you witnessed Black people wantonly taking a so called ‘white’ surname?
Are you Jewish/Jewish descent Lara? Is that why you jumped on this comment so? Upset that you are not deemed pure white perhaps?
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Is this Lara person for real? Black people didn’t ‘take’ white people’s last names, it was shoved onto us. Just so you know that comparison is crap.
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I know you are not an American, but in this country we have a lot of black people with last names such as Washington, Jefferson and Jackson. In France it might be different.
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@Lara
Look at the comment above your’s for an indication of the feeling behind the fact that so ‘many’ black people have anglicised surnames.
I dont know about France either – BTW, I notice you avoided answering my questions Lara – though might be easier for me to make assumptions just like you seem to do!
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@ wanpimao
“. It’s blanket generalizations that put us in this mess in the first place.”
You have a very skewed understanding of history, particularly in regards to White Supermacy. It was systematic racism operationalized through mass acts of violence towards POC that got “us” into this “mess”. And to clarify the only people suffering from this “mess” are POC.
The first step in getting out of this mess is identifying what caused it in the first place. The cause: white supremacy and not “blanket” statements….
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Don’t misunderstand me. It was their generalizations regarding the inferiority of POC. Their blanket generalizations regarding our intelligence, our ‘savagery’, our ability to modernize, our wanton sexuality, all of that, which dehumanized us and justified their racism. And it continues to justify their racism.
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Demerera,
No I’m not Jewish. I’d probably be smarter if I was.
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Dave,
This will be my last response to you because frankly, I’m bored with this.
It seems so funny how a group of people that has advocated that they were superior above all other races are now crying about how they are now victims of racism against them.
And if you want a good argument to go against the video, read this:
http://www.timwise.org/2011/03/a-bad-year-for-white-whine-college-scholarships-and-the-cult-of-caucasian-victimhood/
Happy Trolling.
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“No I’m not Jewish. I’d probably be smarter if I was.”
When I read this comment, I heard Seth Macfarlane’s voice-over as Peter Griffin.
Continue on with making us feel smarter with your comments, Lara. lol
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@ wanpimao
I can agree with you on you last point. They dehumanized us (and continue to) to justify what they were going to do regardless….I don’t believe in talking politely about this fact, or white supremacy in general, to make white people feel comfortable…..
If I am required to shut up or step away from these facts to get so called “antiracist” white allies on myside, then I would rather fight these battles on my own…..
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Dave,
One more thing, that video didn’t explain how black racism is effecting the 99% movement. Your comments are not starting to look more desperate, and as a result, I’m moving on.
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@brothawolf
LOL 😉
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@MK82
Then you and I agree. I don’t think you need to talk politely about it. I don’t think white people need to be made to feel comfortable. Racism and the integrated system is ugly and sugar-coating it isn’t going to expose it for what it is.
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@wanpimao
These are the type of discussions that I enjoy. I feel there is room for everyone, including me, to learn. It’s too bad the trolls have been taking over lately.
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@ Gen:
The answer to your question is no, yet people are continuing to feed the troll. It thrives on a steady diet of attention and offended commenters. Let’s put it on a diet. Better yet, let’s starve it.
@ Brothawolf:
I dont’ think it’s a white woman. It’s either a white male or a self-hating POC.
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😀
As do I, MK82.
Trolls need attention, too. As one poster above pointed out, they can be good practice for honing your skills for real debates. You just have to be careful not to let them get to you. It’s what they want. They feed off your flames.
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“I dont’ think it’s a white woman. It’s either a white male or a self-hating POC.”
Whoever he(she) is, she(he) makes me laugh lol.
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@brotherwolf
Ok Tim wise, reallllly
you do know tim wise gets paid lots of money for his viewpoints.
second I reaaaly doubt tim wise or any white person that he knows in his rich circle of friends white or otherwise needs any help for college, I really doubt he knows any poor whites and definitely wouldn’t hang out with them if he did. HE IS A PHONEY.
So go ahead and not respond to that one
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@dave:
“the way black racists have an small impact on the we are 99% movement is when they blockade programs, grants, scholarships etc. when it would really help the very poor whites. why should anyone care if someone really needs the help?”
When Affirmative Action Was White: An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth-Century America
http://forum-network.org/lecture/when-affirmative-action-was-white
“Ira Katznelson discusses how racism and Jim Crow imposed themselves on the key social policies of the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and asks what the consequences are for America today.”
When Affirmative Action Was White: An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth-Century America
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and brotherwolf I did explain why some racist blacks who blockade help for poor whites are a small part of the problem.
ok
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On a lighter note, this polish immigrant seems to have a better grasp on the topic at hand than Lara seems to pretend not to:
White Man Robs Banks in Black Man Disguise
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I always hear, “well you aren’t in a poc’s shoes”
have you been in a white person’s shoes applying for welfare and gotten the “what the f are you doing here” looks from people in line and especially welfare agent behind the desk?
and it’s people like that who are part of the problem why some whites won’t go for help.
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@GoldFire
GoldFire
On a lighter note, this polish immigrant seems to have a better grasp on the topic at hand than Lara seems to pretend not to:
White Man Robs Banks in Black Man Disguise
http://youtu.be/M4ospJbyYoU
Lol, that tickled me I must say 🙂
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@dave
have you been in a white person’s shoes applying for welfare and gotten the “what the f are you doing here” looks from people in line and especially welfare agent behind the desk?
Maybe they think you are a poor excuse for a ‘white man’? – how rude of them aye!
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and brotherwolf thats not reaching or trolling it’s called my personal experience. I would like to hear some of yours.
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@Demerera, so I guess going to get help for two little babies is a poor excuse.
You really seem like a scum for saying that
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These trolls get more comical by the post….
@ Dave
“have you been in a white person’s shoes applying for welfare and gotten the “what the f are you doing here” looks from people in line and especially welfare agent behind the desk?”
Since the MAJORITY of people on welfare are white, I would assume the looks they receive are due to thoughts: damn not another white person applying for welfare, why don’t they just get a job, and show these lazy black people what a “real” American is about…..
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“have you been in a white person’s shoes applying for welfare and gotten the “what the f are you doing here” looks from people in line and especially welfare agent behind the desk?”
That is exactly how a white man I know was treated by the black woman who decides who does and does not qualify for welfare.
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mk82 that really depends on where you live, and where I live I’m sorry to say i’ve been there enough times to give you a good demographic model
75%black
14%latino
10%white (mostly women with mixed children)
and almost no asians
thats what I witnessed
thankfully I’m not on it anymore, but I do still need help from time to time, and I’m able to scrape by, like most americans
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@ Dave
Why don’t u try government statistics instead of your baised opinion?
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@dave
@Demerera, so I guess going to get help for two little babies is a poor excuse.
You really seem like a scum for saying that
OMFG. I was just making an observation here – Lara, help me out here – isnt this the kind of comment you would make?
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“White Man Robs Banks in Black Man Disguise”
Black people should try that! We could get some quality disguises and pretend to be white people. Life would be so much simpler, healthier, fairer, easier, cheaper, nicer…more employment, no police harassment, no one would doubt your knowledge and expertise, real (white just-us) justice, more government assistance, no more glass ceilings, better housing, lower rates mortgages ….access to better quality education, nice restaurants,country clubs …
Of course the down side would be that we could eventually become infected with some form of psychosis, schizophrenia, delusional and other “mental” disorders that is common to whiteness. IOW we couldn’t ever see or experience or remotely understand racism again! And we’d probably suffer from those pesky and troublesome, yet widely ignored, white pathologies. Oh well…
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@demerera, ok maybe a little harsh,
but my kids are a sore spot for me, so when I’m there to help them, no one should have a problem.
I was denied money, but I did get some food stamps and medicaid.
which I was grateful for, the woman who helped me there was great, and really funny by the way , but it was her initial reaction that was tough to deal with if you could read between the lines you would see that.
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@dave
Glad you got the help you needed for your kiddies – it was difficult to read between any lines dave, you merely said that you did not get any help initially and presented this austere person behind the desk as the barrier to this. As this post is about Black racism not being a mirror for white racism I assumed you were sticking to the subject (to some degree) and talking about an instance of perceived black on white racism.
Sometimes people have a tough veneer but it is only by talking to them that we can penetrate this.
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@dave:
You’re pointing your finger in the wrong direction.
Here are the people you’re mad at. http://youtu.be/6ik4f1dRbP8 . There’s not a POC amongst them.
If you want to know one of the roots of your problem, the Southern strategy is a great place to start.
Southern strategy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
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Dave,
I’m not going to respond because there’s no use to respond. It’s quicksand with you. You can take it however you want, but I’m tired of this. You stick to your “Whoa is me-Black people are racist against me-As a white person I feel marginalized-I don’t have any privileges and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah” venting as long as you want if that makes you feel better. All it shows is that you want everyone to feel sorry for whites for black racism and not give two damns about the pain black people or people of color go through at the hands of a white supremacist system and mindset.
The end.
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@Demerera, Matari 🙂 🙂 🙂
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“real (white just-us) justice”
I know a white man who was convicted of a non-violent crime and received jail time. Some of these judges go harder on white men to show they aren’t racist.
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“no police harassment”
White men get harassed by the police all the time.
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I’m almost inclined to think Matari’s comment was meant to be humorous because it is so ridiculous.
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“IOW we couldn’t ever see or experience or remotely understand racism again”
White people get slighted all the time in life. We just don’t see it as racism the way you do.
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@ Lara
God, can you go away!
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Why should I? I’m obviously a popular commenter and I’ve only been here for one day so far.
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Lara sounds like a racist valley girl, hahahaha!!!!!
Oh Franklin, you owe me!
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ok, brotha
you did put alot of words in my mouth
I initially said that it was a very small part of the problem, and said in other posts that it was rich whites who keep down poor whites not racist blacks.
Not to say that black racism doesn’t effect anyone at all but that it was a small part of the problem
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Herneith,
If she is, that means she says everything having the word “like” in it.
Ex. “That is like so not true.”
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and by the way, I will say that coming on this blog I have learned alot, and I don’t want you to think that it was all negative. I think abagond is a brilliant writer, and I respect him for sticking to his guns, however I should be able to stick to mine.
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@dave: anybody who is poor gets treated like dirt. So it had nothing to do with the color of your skin. I understand that you have had bad experiences but try to think the bigger picture. You get that the rich kick the poor but not that the System uses race in it too. Just like in 1800’s, make the poor fight among each other and laugh all the way to the bank. That is the way it works. You spend your time hating blacks, some of them hate you, and all the while some rich guy steals the government money, your money.
@lara: One question, how old are you?15?
Could you post a link to this court case you reffed to? Innocent white man getting jail time because he was white. You know, to a news paper or something like that?
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sam, I don’t spend my time hating blacks
I think maybe you have the wrong idea.
I am giving my opinion on racial injustice, which I believe swings both ways. especially in the court of public opinion, and whether you know it or not, the court of public opinion as a whole does have power, when desision makers of welfare programs , and college professors use the court of public opinion and make thier decision based on that. So they DO have some power and with the antiracist definition (race+power) of racism they are practicing it.
and taking someones life is the ultimate power
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and by the way sam, I have my own cleaning business, and I do all the work myself. I am a humble person
I don’t have time to sit there hating blacks all day, starting a business is very time consuming. not to mention I don’t hate them, I may disagree , but that is the second time you tried to figure me out without all the facts.
I do all the physical labor, do the marketing(art work), answer the phones, do the books, and taxes, etc.
so even though I was having trouble getting a job, I did something about it.
had that lady at the welfare office gave me money and housing she probably would have done me an injustice and I still might be in the same position today.
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Seriously, just ignore Lara. She’s just looking for attention.
As for the subject of this post, it has often baffled me how blacks are always the villains to some white people. The entire South was more or less united in its efforts to demean, segregate, lynch, and generally hate blacks, l for 100 years after the end of slavery, and yet the whites of the South have NEVER been made to answer for it.
And somehow black people are the villains to many people, because “they’re still poor, what the fuck is wrong with them, they were only trampled on for a trifling 400 years, can’t every single black pull themselves up by their bootstraps within a few decades?”
Underneath the thin veneer of politeness and political correctness, the majority of white people still look down on and either despise or pity black people, believing (often at a near sub-conscious level) that roughly 99% of black people (who aren’t entertainers or pro-athletes) are still poor, ignorant, and criminalistic.
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^^^^ of course i should note that a large majority of white people now prefer to convince themselves that they aren’t racist, that they are “just basing their opinions on facts and observations”, or that they are truly progressive because “they sure wish black people were doing better, I might even help them” (just as long as I get to feel good about myself).
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OK aaron I’m racist, but I would go further than that. I want the best for MY white IMMIDiate family especially my kids.
ok, so when I see white kids getting beat up on a school bus simply for the color of thier skin, I feel it’s time to change the mentality in black america. does not mean I hate all black people.
If you can’t understand that , then so be it ,but people like you and brotherwolf aren’t going to sway me. abagond has on certain issues.
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So, bearing in mind the subject of this post does anyone think that there will be time when this imbalance can be re-dressed? What ‘baby’ steps can be taken towards this? What should be done going forward to ensure cohesive equality?
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OK, Dave, but if the best for your kids includes marriage to some well educated, rich, healthy, uncut, christian, respectable negroes,to borrow the expression, not the Prada wearing kind, the Gaastra wearing kind, would that bother you in the least?
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Demerera, the best way to stop racism is to give the different races a common enemy. Hard to do in the current circumstances.
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@Teddy
Demerera, the best way to stop racism is to give the different races a common enemy. Hard to do in the current circumstances.
Ah, so re-direct the negative energies elsewhere? Any ideas where? I can see many races uniting against ‘a’ government in this way but you are right, that would be do as whilst some prosper and flourish under certain governments others wither and struggle to survive.
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^^^^
BTW, I am NOT suggesting anarchy is the solution
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“The entire South was more or less united in its efforts to demean, segregate, lynch, and generally hate blacks, l for 100 years after the end of slavery, and yet the whites of the South have NEVER been made to answer for it.”
They did lose the Civil War and had segregation ruled illegal. I find it hard to believe that white southerners felt burning hatred towards black people all the time. They lived amongst them and often worked with them or had blacks working for them. If you really hated them it seems like it would be a tough way to live. I find white southerners tend to get along better with blacks than other people do.
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@Aaron
“Underneath the thin veneer of politeness and political correctness, the majority of white people still look down on and either despise or pity black people”
How do you know this? Did you do a survey? I don’t claim to know how the majority of black people think about me. Actually I generally assume they like me or are indifferent.
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@ Lara
“I find it hard to believe that white southerners felt burning hatred towards black people all the time.”
“I find white southerners tend to get along better with blacks than other people do.”
That is the problem with White people such as you: if the “facts” and “evidence” don’t match what YOU think they should be, they must not be true and can be ignored. The epitome of White privilege…..
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Right, because all the comments on here are backed up with hard facts, except mine.
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In regards to the video saying White supremacy is a form of mental illness, sometimes when I see how White people in general process reality and how different it is from the reality I am seeing it is quite frightening. Sometimes it does feel like I am observing the criminally insane.
In my opinion White people seeing the world through the prism of White supremacy completely distorts and warps the way they process reality. Their logic is generally twisted, disjointed and contradictory, they are totally biased in general, and they see things that are not there and things that are there they don’t see. As a Black man it really is quite disturbing and disconcerting when you realise you are surrounded by people who are living in an anti-Black alternative imaginary reality and these people have so much power over your life.
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Robert,
Okay. Now explain how black people see the world.
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“Their logic is generally twisted, disjointed and contradictory”
Maybe because they’re human and most of us aren’t geniuses.
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@Lara
Lara
Right, because all the comments on here are backed up with hard facts, except mine.
On the surface I guess these seem like generalised statements to you however, these experiences cannot always be backed up by ‘hard facts’ and are in fact down to personal experiences. I know Abagond sent you several links which factualy document real life situations which clearly you havent bothered to read, yet STILL you insist on posting on here, refuting what people are saying.
You clearly differentiate between people and also have your own generalisations i.e. ‘Black people are more racist than white’ etc but where are YOUR hard facts? A handful of people writing on a site such as this where you ‘pick and chose’ comments labelling them racist doesnt cut it Lara. What do you bring to these discussions Lara – seriously what is your intention when you write your posts? What personal experience do you bring to this that can engender true understanding of the experiences and feelings that people have on here?
Were you brought up in a diverse multi cultural area? Did you mix with people of different backgrounds/ethnicities? If your posts were based on the experiences of where you were/are from and what you have seen them it could be looked at more contextually.
Comparitively to someone like dave, you are a waste of time and energy. I dont say that lightly either because looking back some of his comments leave a lot to be desired however, they are based on his own personal experiences and even if I dont agree with how he interprets things there is still a context within which you can see ‘how’ these thoughts might manifest themselves.
I noticed a post where you refer to yourself as ‘popular’. I bet you are starting to feel great about yourself too. Unfortunately you are mistaken if you think you are popular. I would call it notoriety myself as people know that you will be posting some sort of vapid and vacuous comments.
If you are not willing to look outside yourself Lara and have an honest, decent discussion then step aside.
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Demerera,
I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism. I’ve just seen a lot of comments similar to Robert’s about how all white people are crazy. Dave is the only one who talked about real life experiences which is why his comments made for some good discussion.
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@ Lara:
Read some of my links. They are not about how white people think. They are about HOW WHITE PEOPLE ACT. Stuff that black people are not imagining since most of the information comes from white reporters and white historians.
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” I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism, I’ve just seen a lot of comments similar to Robert’s about how all white people are crazy. Dave is the only one who talked about real life experiences,,,”.
@ Abagond,
Can you approximate how many posts you’ve written on the subject of race?
I can only say that you’ve written a LOT! Perhaps more than a hundred? Maybe someone has already counted and indexed them?
@ clueless white people
That’s people who can’t understand Abagond, Origin’s and others no nonsense, well written, lucid and clearly laid out language about how THINGS are – on this thread and others. Sometimes we learn MORE when we are quiet and listening than when we’re incessantly pontificating.
There’s plenty of anti-racist white people who you’d probably understand and better relate to at : http://debunkingwhite.livejournal.com
They are there to help those who are STUCK. If you can’t grasp what’s being said here, then my advice for you is to go to the above website where someone that was once as clueless as you will happily break it down for YOU. Your education and knowledge about that which you admittedly know so little about, and are reluctant to believe, is not the responsibility of black people.
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I am in the process of reading those links. From now on I’m not going to responds to philosophical comments that are just someone’s opinion. I’ll address real issues.
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@ Lara
“From now on I’m not going to responds to philosophical comments that are just someone’s opinion. I’ll address real issues.”
And your comments have been backed up by empirical studies? LMAO! White supremacy is a mental illness…
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@ Lara-
“I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism”
Ok Lara,
First, it’s all personal. What you want are anecdotes. I am going to offer one current personal example here, not necessarily for your benefit
(dissect it if you want), but for the benefit of non-white people who could be experiencing something similar in dealing with a White collective. Mine is the church.
I belong to a large metropolitan (3,000) congregation. It is more than 150 years old. The church prides itself on being a “Telling Presence In The City” and being progressive and integrated. This church and denomination, has recently permitted gay clergy and marriages.The racism I am dealing with for over 4 years now, has been the existence of segregated Boy Scout Troops within the church. One troop consist of White boys, the other is Hmong boys. There are no other troops. Both troops are lead by White American men.
I have NEVER called anyone racist. Yet, I have been ACCUSED of THINKING people are racist because I have ASKED for the reason(s) behind segregated boy scout troops in the church. White members repeat the same mantra, “that’s the way the children want it.” Non-white members (Most of whom are from Cameroon, Africa) And do not wish to “rock” the boat. When I inquire as to the concern about the message these CHILDREN are receiving, and incorrectness (based on the MISSION of the church), I have been told I don’t understand.
What I don’t understand is: After 30 years from the troops start, there has never been a non-white leader of either the Hmong troop or White troop. After 30 years the troops do not work jointly on events (sales of fruit, or wreaths). What troop would a new child members of the church, who is non-white or non-Hmong join? Would a third troop be formed? Doesn’t anyone else think segregated boy scout troops in the church is…”weird?”
The lead Pastor for Social Justice Issues (White male) has told me: ” Let this one go”. When I continued to ask questions about the segregated boy scouts, I was told: ” if I you don’t let it go, I can make it very difficult for you to operate within the church.” Just my asking why…has caused White strangers to approach me and tell me how wonderful the White leadership is, and that when the troops started (30 years ago) they were such a “rag-tag” group and blah…blah…blah. Then there’s the other White strangers who have approached me to say (in hushed tones) ” I always wondered about the segregated scouts”.
I haven’t stopped asking, and I have taken the question to local church leadership and beyond. There have been countless retaliatory actions against me through my committee work, as well as common forms isolationist tactics.
I consider the above experience a personal story of dealing with racism at the personal level, the institutional policy level, and economic level.
You want to walk through it?
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“I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism. I’ve just seen a lot of comments similar to Robert’s about how all white people are crazy. Dave is the only one who talked about real life experiences which is why his comments made for some good discussion.”
Lara,
There’s a good reason for that. When PoC, especially blacks, talk about their experiences dealing with racism, we’re likely told how we are overreacting or just plain whining. Why bother telling clueless, self-absorbed white people our experiences if they’ll just dismiss it instantly?
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@Lara
Lara
Demerera,
I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism.
Notice you didnt say that you havent read ANY stories on here but many – there is a difference isnt there. I have yet to hear about YOUR experiences too Lara that would enlighten/have any relevance to the discussions on here. Think about it too Lara, this is a forum where discussion and debate takes place amongst like minded people and *sigh* before you try to derail my comment and say ‘only black people need apply* in that slightly peevish voice I imagine you to have, by ‘like minded’ I mean people who are willing to have an open and honest discussion using either media stories as the topic or their own life experiences. They dont always agree as you clearly can see here but sometimes there is an understanding/appreciation that can only come about by thrashing things out. I would be less than willing to ‘share’ myself on a forum where people like you come on and try desperately to derail the conversation and undermine what people are saying.
Also again I see you a common theme in your posts where you choose only to see and answer what you want to. I gave you the opportunity to be give your side of things by asking you some ‘open’ questions – why do you not respond?
Since you demand that you need actual personal stories as a basis in order for you to find any validity in what the commenters are saying, I take it that you will do likewise and bring forth YOUR experiences and not just your garbled, generalised and stereotypical view points in future?
In other words for future posts practice what you preach!!!!!
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Lara,
One other thing, the fact that you consider Dave’s comments as good for discussions and everyone else’s as just “White people are crazy” mumbo-jumbo PROVES THAT YOU’RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.
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“I see you a common theme in your posts where you choose only to see and answer what you want to. I gave you the opportunity to be give your side of things by asking you some ‘open’ questions – why do you not respond?”
That right there!
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@brothawolf
Lara,
One other thing, the fact that you consider Dave’s comments as good for discussions and everyone else’s as just “White people are crazy” mumbo-jumbo PROVES THAT YOU’RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.
🙂
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@minnieb
That is a perfect example of when the rubber hits the road in terms of “good” white people practicing what they preach….
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@ Herneith & sam:
Ginger ale is chilling…help yourselves! 😎
Schweppes, Canada Dry, or Seagram’s – I brought an assortment.
* pops open a big bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale *
* GLUG *
That hit the spot! 😀
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Very disappointing. I come to your site with an open mind and the only responses I get are insults. I don’t think anything in my post was an attack on anybody here.
I did point out the Jews run the banks and media, this is a verifiable fact that can be easily checked. So check it before you call names.
I understand that my people didn’t originally come from North America, but neither did yours. I had no choice in where I was born and neither did you. Now to all who want me to go back to Europe, buy yourself a plane ticket to Africa too. You all have had plenty of time to save up and buy a ticket. I know the real reason why you don’t want to go back to your homeland, because it sucks over there. Face it.
Speaking of which, Europe is being overrun with immigrants too. So if you grant us whites the European homeland, you also grant us the right to ‘cleanse’ the homeland. Everybody has a right to their own homeland, do they not?
As far as the Native Americans, I’m sure there was no killing or hatred before the white man showed up. No Indians ever killed another for land or territory. All Indians lived in peace with nature and never ever ever sacrificed people to the gods. (Mayans)
The reason the Indians lost was because they had inferior weapons. If it would have been the other way around nobody would have cared.
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*the European Homeland* not North America.
Just wanted to clarify. whew…
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@sepultura13
* pops open a big bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale *
* GLUG *
That hit the spot!
Sounds goooood 🙂
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@ MinnieB
I was also in church that’s predominately white. I saw “things” (race related) that they couldn’t see or understand. And when I tried to talk to my so-called brethren about some of these things I saw and experienced, I was given the usual white-wash: I’m being over sensitive, I’m imagining things, no one here is racist – except you, and so on. They wouldn’t (couldn’t) budge from that stance, no matter how well I presented my concerns. I wound up leaving.
I’ve come to the conclusion that demonic influences permeates whiteness to the extent that it renders many of its members “blind.” There are scriptures that say as much, literally, at least in principle.
Good Luck to you!
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@Matari-
As I became bold in articulating, not only the situation of the boy scouts, and my subsequent mistreatment as the result, the WP escalated their disapproval, including the so-called “progressive liberals” to the point where they told me “maybe I should find a ‘black’ church. Spiritually, I have left that church.
The only reason I attend now is to document and collect evidence.
We all know how much WP need evidence.
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“The U.S. Department of Justice compiles statistics on crime by race, but only between and among people categorized as black or white. The statistics for whites include hispanic and non hispanic whites combined.In 2005 There were 194,270 white and 17,920 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2006. Out of the 194,270 cases involving white victims, cases involving white victims, 44.5% had white offenders and 33.6% had black offenders , while the 36,620 black victims had a figure of 100% black offenders, the remaining being of other or unreported race, with a negligible number of white offenders.”
Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics
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@ MinneB
“The only reason I attend now is to document and collect evidence.
We all know how much WP need evidence.”
Do whatever God puts on your heart to do.
“..they told me “maybe I should find a ‘black’ church.”
When they told me the EXACT SAME THING – I knew it was time to go. I had foolishly believed that if white people like Robert Jensen, Joe Feagin and Tim Wise could “see reality” then certainly these nice “Christian” people, whom I thought I knew well, would/might get a clue.
Did not happen. They remained steadfast in their cluelessness, just like we usually see here on Abagond’s blog.
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White people with that mindset presented here and other blogs demand evidence and they sure as hell need evidence, but something in their minds something tells them that the evidence presented is still invalid because it’s not comfortable to take in. Something may also tell them that it’s part of some “agenda” which automatically makes it useless. So, they will reject it, tell you how much you are wrong, and present their “evidence” as the truth. Some of them will try to sound intellectual in doing so.
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Brothawolf speaks the truth, “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”, which is why it completely futile to try and reason with most White people. It doesn’t matter how logical well reasoned and how backed up with facts your argument is it wont make any difference, you can’t reason with delusional people who see what they want to see and who are completely arrogant because of their complete belief in the superiority of the White race.
If they don’t like the arguments backed up with facts, and personal stories of the racism you have been subjected to that you are presenting because they conflict with their White supremacist worldview, they will simply dismiss them as lies and nonsense, because they see Black people as inferior and therefore see anything presented by Black people as invalid, untrue, unimportant, meaningless and worthless.
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“..they told me “maybe I should find a ‘black’ church.” – Minne B
“When they told me the EXACT SAME THING – I knew it was time to go. I had foolishly believed that if white people like Robert Jensen, Joe Feagin and Tim Wise could “see reality” then certainly these nice “Christian” people, whom I thought I knew well, would/might get a clue.” – Matari
When Black people are forced to go to Black organizations because they have been chased out of mixed ones by White racism, White people will then have the nerve to accuse you of going to a Black church because you are shunning White people and participating in self-segregation and ask why you wont go to a mixed church and “how can we get past the race thing if we all just stay in our own racial groups all the time.”
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^ Another common White tactic; cherry picking Black utterances and using the “even one of your own people agrees with me” tactic to suit their denial agenda. But at least he’s being original in a way and not cherry picking Martin Luther King quotes like White racists usually do.
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What’s your point with 2pac, Dave?
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@MinneB
“The only reason I attend now is to document and collect evidence.”
What a good Christian you are.
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@MinneB
The lead Pastor for Social Justice Issues (White male) has told me: ” Let this one go”
I think that is very good advice. Black women can be so aggressive, no wonder your best men always want a white woman.
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To the black men on here I have a question. Go read MinneB’s above comment about the segregated boy scout troops in her church. Now imagine if you were devoting a lot of your time to setting up a boy scout troop for black boys and a white woman came along and told you you were wrong because you didn’t have any white boys in the troop. How would you feel about that?
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MinneB,
Hmong people are competent people and perfectly capable of sticking up for themselves. They really don’t need a black female advocate and my guess is they don’t appreciate your efforts either.
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But it’s all about you anyway, so what they want isn’t important.
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@Lara
I think that is very good advice. Black women can be so aggressive, no wonder your best men always want a white woman.
And this is your idea of a passive white response? – if you are indeed the white female you claim to be…..
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@Lara
But it’s all about you anyway, so what they want isn’t important.
This is the first honest response you have given Lara – Congratulations. Its a shame that you didnt intend it to be an outpouring of your own internalised attitude…
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Demerera,
I understand race loyalty, but when I see MinneB’s comments and what she considers acceptable behavior for black women I can’t really blame black men for sometimes preferring women who are nicer.
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Lara
no wonder your best men always want a white woman.
Aha! This is what you are waiting for – I can see what brought you to this site now. Perhaps you better sharpen up your IQ some. There’s no accounting for taste but most men want a mate they can converse with on some level!!!!! Any man would find it difficult to penetrate your noggin and you have alluded to the fact at least twice on here that your intelligence is lacking and leaves a lot to be desired….
Calling all eligible Black Men – Lara is available
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“Calling all eligible Black Men – Lara is available”
No thanks, I like them chocolate…
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@Lara
Demerera,
I understand race loyalty, but when I see MinneB’s comments and what she considers acceptable behavior for black women I can’t really blame black men for sometimes preferring women who are nicer.
As far as I can see, Minnie did not appoint herself as Ambassador for all Black women – you did that by taking what she said and generalising and making assumptions …..as usual *rolls eyes*.
BTW, Lara ‘nicer’ does not mean the feigned guilelessness that you try to portray on here which has a nasty and vindictive and quite frankly, semi sininster undertone.
You remind me of the boys I went to school with who tried to catch the girls attention by pulling their hair or calling them names where for them, to have ANY contact was good enough whether it be good or bad. *sigh*
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@Lara:
For the past six years, myself and other black staff in my work site have been the recipients of hate mail threatening death and assault. Why? because we are black. The last letter received a month or so ago, threatened to behead and burn the rest of the ‘niggers’. Of course they were sent anonymously. The management dropped the ball at the onset of these threatening letters causing this situation to spiral out of control. Institutional racism at its’ best, as the management didn’t see this as a serious concern at the onset. People were followed. One woman received a letter with a picture of a naked woman on it with a gun pointed to her genitals. The letter goes on to describe, in lurid details the rape, dismemberment and total disappearance of that woman. Is that enough of an anecdotal experience of racism for you ‘Lara’?
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@ devilish TROLL
Please state, why are YOU here?
Judging from your comments, your attempts to be divisive and disruptive – while putting yourself at CENTER STAGE – are glaringly obvious.
Are you in need of constant attention and drama?
Are you entertaining demons that are plucking up your bored nerve endings?
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Calling all eligible Black Men – Lara is available
That’s the gist of ‘Lara’s disgruntlement’s isn’t it? ‘Lara’ wants a back man!
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@Herneith
Calling all eligible Black Men – Lara is available
That’s the gist of ‘Lara’s disgruntlement’s isn’t it? ‘Lara’ wants a back man!
I do believe it is Herenith – she doesnt seemed to have learned the ‘subtleties’ of the verbal foreplay side of things though…
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Lara said:
“I haven’t read many personal stories on here about people dealing with racism. ”
Based on your responses, you don’t consider my story of the segregated boy scouts as a valid example of dealing with any form of racism, is that correct?
Lara said: “What a good Christian you are.”
Can you speak to the Christianity of the WP who create and maintain segregated boy scout troops in CHURCH?
Lara said:
“Hmong people are competent people and perfectly capable of sticking up for themselves. They really don’t need a black female advocate and my guess is they don’t appreciate your efforts either.”
I am not advocating for the Hmong. I am against racism.
Lara said:
“but when I see MinneB’s comments and what she considers acceptable behavior for black women I can’t really blame black men for sometimes preferring women who are nicer.”
Resisting the control needs of the dominant culture to maintain the system of racism white supremacy is not nice but then again, your people didn’t intend for it to be either.
Lara said:
“Black women can be so aggressive…”
– And this is intended to be an insult somehow?
“…no wonder your best men always want a white woman.”
No Lara OUR best men NEVER want a white woman.
I was mistaken to think you were interested in a personal story about a person dealing with racism.
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“I was mistaken to think you were interested in a personal story about a person dealing with racism.”
You aren’t a boy scout so you haven’t dealt with anything. I don’t think you really know what is it like to be a boy and I think you should let the men handle this one.
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It would be like me trying to speak on behalf of black boys which would be pretty out of line in my opinion.
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@Herneith
The management dropped the ball at the onset of these threatening letters causing this situation to spiral out of control. Institutional racism at its’ best, as the management didn’t see this as a serious concern at the onset.
OMG Herenith
What is being done now to support you guys? Are you now – albeit not at the outset, being supported on a personal level i.e. counselling etc? Might sound wishy washy – forgive me if it does, but I would guess that there is a LOT going on in everyones minds at the moment.
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Hernieth,
We don’t know who is sending these letters. Many of these cases of racially charged letters and whatnot have at their source a very desperate and lonely person crying out for attention. Often the person is the same race of the people he or she is attempting to intimidate. I guess I need more information.
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“One woman received a letter with a picture of a naked woman on it with a gun pointed to her genitals”
If I were a detective she would be my first suspect.
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@Lara
Lara
“One woman received a letter with a picture of a naked woman on it with a gun pointed to her genitals”
If I were a detective she would be my first suspect
The fact is you are NOT a detective. You are merely a ridiculous individual with an ‘agenda’ who has chosen to post on this forum.
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“I think that is very good advice. Black women can be so aggressive, no wonder your best men always want a white woman.”
I’m sorry but I have to drop my two cent on this shit right here.
To Lara (who else?)
So, what you’re saying is that our “best men” want a docile, meek white woman with no backbone instead, huh?
You know what, this is too ridiculous. Lara, everytime you type something you assert your ignorant brand of whiteness that we are all too familiar with and you have no apologies for the many asinine comments you left in your trail. It’s more than obvious that you’re not here to learn, you’re here to play us like fools because you think we don’t know jackshit about the subject at hand while making yourself look more “qualified” even though you’re proving your blatant stupidity and immaturity. You are just a troll, a troll with with the sole purpose of starting some crap and derailing the subject. So, if you’ll excuse me, I’m done feeding you. Adios.
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Another great post.
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@sepultra: Thanx!! Be joining you soon!
@lara: sorry to say, but as a white male I am very much embarrassed of you, you know, like when you see a drunken person peeing on a sidewalk kind of a way. That is only because what you say. I do not know you personally, but just by your comments here. As for being a good christian, at least in a traditional sense, you are not one of them either. Sorry.
@pahana: You are a son of immigrants yourself, so why worry about immigration in Europe, when your own family has left the place a long time ago just to be immigrants over there? Not smart being immigrant critical when you are one yourself? Eh?
Jews? Get real, kid. What are you? Six year old?
@dave: ” …had that lady at the welfare office gave me money and housing she probably would have done me an injustice and I still might be in the same position today.”
You might, you might not, but you do know that your thinking is based on right wing ideology which has no factual bases what so ever?
There has been not one research that shows that functioning welfare system, quoting you here, is doing “injustice” to those in need by making poor people lazy, parasites or anything else. Repeat: there is not a single study or research or fact which proves that funtioning wellfare system causes poor people to be lazy.That is right wing BS.
On the other hand, there is much less poverty, social injustice, slums, adult illiteracy, homless, unattended sick and elderly in countries where there is functioning wellfare system and national health care systme, unlike in USA which is on the same level on these things as is Brazil, China, India etc. Statistically USA is on these things just one of the developing or underdeveloped countries. And that is an absolute fact.
For the last 20 years politicians have working very hard in Europe to destroy the well functioning system with help of american capital, bankers and politicians, and have ruined some parts of the system over here. But we will see which way it will turn out.
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I guess I need more information.
You don’t need FA more information. You asked for personal ‘examples’ of racism and I gave you one.
Often the person is the same race of the people he or she is attempting to intimidate.
Yes Lara the FBI profiler!
If I were a detective she would be my first suspect.
In being facetious, you are right, the police focus on the recipients initially to eliminate them as suspects, that’s procedural. Otherwise shut your pie hole, do not address me again.
@Demerera:
The ‘counselor’ I went to stated unequivocally, that the ‘management was sick’. The management did a little too late and were left scrambling actually. They started committees, cosmetic in nature; having lunches and ‘lunchtime presentations’. Everyone enjoyed the free meals but as to whether or not they learned anything is debatable. Some were scornful and dismissive of it. They had one day courses to ‘educate’ as ordered by an arbitrator, but the atmosphere remains poisoned. They did these things because they were ordered to, not out of any decency or moral obligation. They were, and continue to think of the financial liability down the line. They do things when ordered to by a legal body. Even so, they try to co-opt the process with their ineptness, resisting having an independent body deal with such complaints. The list is seemingly endless.
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@Herenith
The ‘counselor’ I went to stated unequivocally, that the ‘management was sick’
I agree
They started committees, cosmetic in nature; having lunches and ‘lunchtime presentations’. Everyone enjoyed the free meals but as to whether or not they learned anything is debatable. Some were scornful and dismissive of it
Totally familiar with this, they want the money, prestige and title that goes with being in management but not the responsibility. I have worked in too many organisations where senior staff members have little or NO HR/People Management training and this can make a huge difference between someone who is managing in name only and someone who actually manages people and situations properly.
They had one day courses to ‘educate’ as ordered by an arbitrator, but the atmosphere remains poisoned. They did these things because they were ordered to, not out of any decency or moral obligation
They are now having to work for it, albeit a one day course but this now means that they are expected to take some onus for things which they resent doing.
They do things when ordered to by a legal body. Even so, they try to co-opt the process with their ineptness, resisting having an independent body deal with such complaints. The list is seemingly endless
Its times like this a whistle-blower wouldnt go amis. I despise organisations like this who fail staff terribly but resent taking responsibility for this.
I sincerely hope they get to the bottom of this Herenith.
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Brothawolf & Minnie,
My point is that fighting the system is more for black men to worry about than black women. Men are always jostling for power and that’s what most of this is about. As a lady Minnie should be spending her time on activities such as improving her appearance, decorating her house, arts & crafts or reading.
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@ Lara-
Brothawolf said:
“You are just a troll, a troll with with the sole purpose of starting some crap and derailing the subject. So, if you’ll excuse me, I’m done feeding you. Adios.”
co-sign.
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no wonder your best men always want a white woman.
This is ALWAYS the white woman’s bottom line!!
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white women have no other agenda but to divide and conquer the black community.
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“white women have no other agenda but to divide and conquer the black community.”
And some of us are very good at it too.
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I relate to alot of this
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@MinnieB
Lara has a point about where black women should be focusing their energy. I disagree with the overtly feminine past times she suggested but black women do have issues of their own that require the same, immediate attention; healthy, finances, quality of life, etc. Black men are affected differently and they have a better idea of what those issues encompass than us.
You might be giving Lara too much credit by giving it an “agenda” and the power to be divisive. If it could be confirmed that Lara was in fact white and female, what the worst she could do? Keep typing?
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“My point is that fighting the system is more for black men to worry about than black women. Men are always jostling for power and that’s what most of this is about. As a lady Minnie should be spending her time on activities such as improving her appearance, decorating her house, arts & crafts or reading.”
No! The point is that you know NOTHING about black people, or women!
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Brothawolf,
One of the main accomplishments of the Civil Rights Movement has been for it to be acceptable for black men to date white women. I’m really not sure why black women need to offer their support in that. This is why I won’t support White Nationalism, I prefer to keep white men in their place.
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@brothawolf:
from lara “One of the main accomplishments of the Civil Rights Movement has been for it to be acceptable for black men to date white women.”
I’m tellin you, she is a comedian! LMHO!
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@Sam
LOL
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@WarrenAZ
” If it could be confirmed that Lara was in fact white and female, what the worst she could do? Keep typing?”
What’s the worst she could do? The worst she could do is allow me to let her waste any more of my time. There is nothing redeeming, amusing or novel in these exchanges with her. If she is indeed a WW, that’s her problem.
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“As a lady Minnie should be spending her time on activities such as improving her appearance, decorating her house, arts & crafts or reading.”
*smiling* I do all that…and fight racism too!
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And some of us are very good at it too.
thought i was lying didnt you all!
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As a lady Minnie should be spending her time on activities such as improving her appearance, decorating her house, arts & crafts or reading.”
why dont YOU do all that and get off the computer and let grown folks converse.
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typical white broad, only concern in life is whats in black man’s pants.
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At least a white man can get on the internet and discuss his opinion about race and what have you but with the white woman it always boils down to sexing the black man. That is all that matters to them as far as race relations are concerned.
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It isn’t all that matters to me, in fact I don’t even find black men attractive. I’m only saying that the main beneficiaries of the Civil RIghts Movement seem to be alpha black men.
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@MinneB
Then by all means carry on;)
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Lara I will even disagree on that one, because alot more black women seem to be higher up on the corporate ladder then black men, at least what I witnessed doing commercial jobs (cleaning offices)
That may be changing, but to say that the only benefits of civil rights is to get into a white girls pants is actually a negative thing, because most of these people usually don’t marry and the families on both sides seem to give them a hard time, there is more to relationships then sexual gratification
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@Lara
“It isn’t all that matters to me, in fact I don’t even find black men attractive. I’m only saying that the main beneficiaries of the Civil RIghts Movement seem to be alpha black men.”
Judging from this woman it seem’s white women have benifited too.
A White Woman Explains Why She Prefers Black Men
Black men have something white guys don’t have anymore: confidence in their masculinity, their sexuality. They clearly know they’re men. White men appear to be waiting for the latest sociological research study to let them know if they are men or not. Yet black men are gentlemen, something else white men no longer are. They make me feel like a woman, both respected and desired. I can let go of my inhibitions, my need to control, when I am with them. How many white men can treat a woman like a lady and ravish her too?
I often felt in my White Period that only during heated sex does that little layer of air bubbles between me and the world pop and disappear, leaving me open to intimate connection. It takes a lot of friction for two white people to get that close. These black men, so alive with erotic electricity, cut through the bubbles with a touch, a caress, a kissand they free meand I can truly touch them. I am like a pampered passenger in a Porsche with an expert driver at the wheel. I know I could suggest a route change, but I never really want to do that. On the other hand, the last time I had sex with a white man, we slogged along a bumpy road in a really old VW, the driver like the typical bumbling tv husband who would neither ask for nor accept the directions he badly needed……….
White men over 40 have lost their waistlines and their zest for lifeif they ever had it. They carry resentments, grudges and extra pounds in their basketball bellies. Perhaps a good part of that bloat is unhappiness. Even the thin ones look flabby somehow and deeply aggrieved. They nurse the smallest perceived slight longer than their double shots of Scotch. Surely our culture as much as biology turns them into softer, spongier, less-interesting versions of their youthful selves just at the point where women and black men and other minorities are emerging strong. Society overvalues the white man, leaving him angry and bitter when he realizes, around age 40, that he’s not all that.
http://www.nypress.com/article-12509-a-white-woman-explains-why-she-prefers-black-men.html
Wow! Kinda brutal for my taste, but then again, I guess it confirms your oberservation.
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goldfire I actually read that article before, and there are alot of older white women also going for younger more virile white men (the cougar phenominon)
but in this women’s experience she might also be getting older as well as her white male counter ,and find it hard to find the rich white professional which, is also good looking, is what this very arrogant women would want, and who also wants her, because alot of the good looking white male professionals are already married and if they are going to cheat , they definitely wouldn’t go for this arrogant reporter who wrote the article, they also would go for a much younger good looking woman.
But in “kissing these black guys butts” she is actually a turn on to them and lets face it alot of black guys will go for the white girl hookup rather than a black girl with similar looks for this reason.
So please don’t use this article from this one writer as absolute proof, because I’ve seen this before.
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not only that goldfire, but dude, have you seen this woman, there aren’t enough beer goggles on this earth, seriously
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This thread is getting way off topic. I am deleting any further comments on interracial relationships or the duties of black women unless it is made clear what they have to do with the post. The same for videos.
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It has everything to do with the post. I think white men have been feeling marginalized and that they are the victims of discrimination lately. I’m sympathetic to it, but I don’t see it as my role in life to fight for them. They can either do it themselves or accept things.
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Men and women want different things out of life and are always going to be a cross purposes. While they can at times come together for a common cause this idea that there is going to be unbroken unity between them is nonsense.
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@dave
What ever helps you sleep at night Dave. Anyway, Abagond has put his foot down on the matter so I will bid the topic adieu . I think there are other threads/posts on Abagonds site where you and Lara can go and hash it out if you care to.
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dude, it doesn’t help me sleep at night debunking that article, I’m married and could care less what the women who wrote it does or does not do, however, I have seen that article used before to feed egos and I thought maybe thats what you were doing.
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Lol, you didn’t debunk anything Dave, you merely took great pains to justify something you didn’t like hearing/reading.
Any who, here’s an interesting vid that peripherally speaks to the topic at hand:
ABC NEWS – Racism In America
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Dave did debunk the article. He stated what we were all thinking, that woman is a dog and no one cares who she is sleeping with.
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wow and I’m the one who gets called hard headed.
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In the vain hope that this will give some appreciation of this topic….I hope you guys will bear with me 🙂
Irish travellers aka Gypsies are also known by the derogatory term ‘pikies’. The reputation they have is that they are scroungers who are dishonest and will flout the law. If an employer refused to hire someone or a landlady/lord refused to ‘let’ a room to someone who clearly was/stated that they are a traveller or if they were declined employment because there was a suspicion that they came from a family such as this. Bearing in mind they are ‘white’ in appearance (though their descendants are often ‘other’ than) would you deem this racist?
FACT: On many census forms in the past, Irish people had their own category despite the fact there was a section relating to ‘white’ people
FACT: When immigration was at its height, the saying in some parts of the UK was ‘no Irish, no blacks, no dogs’
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well I do know that even in america during the height of the civil war you had loyalist to the british, and even though it was fading, the ideas of Irish hatred lived on in the anscestors of the Dutch and English in america (Gangs of New York) I know my Dad’s side of the family some of them believe it was propaganda to break the backs of the irish to finally unite the entire british isles. but I will admit I don’t know enough about the irish nomads to comment.
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Hey dave,
I wasnt expecting you to know much about them as people but, given the albeit brief synopsis, what do people make of it?
If I substituted the word ‘Irish’ with another ethnic group, I wonder if this would have some bearing on how people would comment?
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You saw it here first on Television.
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I cannot believe the amount of sense you make. I want to disagree with you, I seriously do but I can’t.
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Actually, “black” and “white” racism are identical. Racism is simply the belief that one race is superior to another, or all others. Alternatively, it can be defined as discrimination based on ethnicity. Not all people of a particular race are racist. If you broke down the percentage of racists in each race, they’d probably all be relatively similar. If not, it’s more likely that there are less white racists, due largely to “white guilt,” an inherently racist notion. White racists having a higher station in life, granting them the ability to more effectively disparage others, is purely circumstantial. The level of hate felt by white and black racists is equal, and equally absurd. The fact you felt so strongly about making white people look worse than black people indicates a degree of racism within you. “Institutional racism” is a term coined and defined by a black racist, and is entirely void. An institution cannot be racist. An institution functions as the individuals involve dictate. If they happen to be racist, this is also circumstantial. For example, the Ku Klux Klan was an extension of the Democratic Party, whose aim was to prevent people from voting Republican. They lynched whites and blacks alike. Today, they’re strictly a white supremacist group. If institutions and organizations were static(which they’d have to be in order to be racist), the KKK would still be a strictly politically focused terrorist organization. Your article, while well put together, is little more than a cop out. Racism isn’t inherent, and if people don’t want it, it’s up to each individual to take personal responsibility and ensure they do not subscribe to racist and bigoted ideology.
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@ Erich
wow… thanks! I’ve been waiting a while now for you to show up and explain how black people have got this “thing” all wrong. So glad you did. Will you be staying for a spell – you know… so you can further help the ill-informed and uninformed out of our darkness?
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The misunderstanding of politics here, as well as the victim-hood and entitlement is staggering. First, let’s get something straight: “whites” as a political group don’t own any of those institutions mentioned in the article. That’s because whites don’t have a cohesive political group. Jews own those institutions, for the most part, and they don’t identify as politically white. However, they have enormous political, and therefore economic power in their Judaism. Wake up and research those industries before you incorrectly ascribe them to non-Jewish whites.
Second, and I’m just going to say it because its for your own good: we don’t want to live with you. We never have and never will. Is it because we’re “better”? Of course not. We just prefer our own culture. Are you wrong for valuing and wanting to preserve your culture? No. And neither are we. AND WE DO HAVE VERY DIFFERENT GROUP CULTURES. Furthermore, once a white person race mixes, he or she is no longer white. We see value in our genes. Are they “better”? OF COURSE NOT. But they are part of what makes this planet diverse, and if all white people breed out then that diversity disappears, along with our unique culture. The same as if all black people were to be eliminated. Its ironic how intermixing, or “political diversity” actually leads to less diversity as gene pools intermix. Would you be upset if I told you that black people didn’t have the right to exist? Well, that’s what liberals tell us every day when they tell us that we don’t have the right to live amongst ourselves. Eventually, through interbreeding, white gentiles will stop existing (although white Jews will not, due to their racist culture that prohibits intermixing, and they will have no more political reason to support your power or existence once we are gone).
We do ascribe crime to your people when justified. In my city, blacks are 40% of the population and commit 80% of the murders (local newspaper verified statistic). Therefore, when I plot the crimes for the past six months on an electronic map (through a web service) and see that there is a thick mass of crime that stops where the black population ends a few blocks away, I view you as irresponsibly shifting blame for your culture and people when you call my family racist for wanting to move away for our own safety. You should have your culture in top shape before you start shifting blame. That same area was crime free before it became all black during the mortgage boom of the early 2000’s. The houses didn’t shift in price, if anything the prices went up, and so economics has nothing to do with the difference in crime. The whites who previously lived there had the same or lower income.This point leads us to the fact that you have always concentrate on shifting blame instead of fixing the culture. There is nothing to “become aware of” other than yourselves realizing that you, or more specifically your culture, is your political problem. Think about that and figure out why that is. Here’s your first clue: politics are about one thing: ethnically based co-operation. All other theories are farces meant to decieve you.
Do you even understand that the culture is your primary problem? BECOME MORE CONSERVATIVE and reinforce your family units, instead of glorifying sex and other family destructive values. ONLY then will your group gain enough political power to be rise up to be more than people to be used by other groups. Currently, you are being used against non-Jewish whites by the Jewish power structure to further liberalism to the end of weakening gentile white politics and reinforcing minority Jewish rule. (our “power” is non-existent in a formal political form – our ONLY power is through our numbers, and even that power is becoming irrelevant at an alarming rate – none of you are more mistaken than the ones who think that there is an organized “white” power structure outside of Jewish interests) Wake the fuck up. You should be fighting for not only for your nationalism (black political power), but our nationalism, becasue once we go you go. Farrakhan undestood this, and this is why he made alliances with hite nationalists in the sixties.
So, you see, your problem isn’t white gentiles. Your problem is first: understanding politics and not advancing your own destruction through liberalism, and two, your family culture that makes it so that your people don’t have a firm sense of political unity that reinforces strict co-operation amongst yourselves. Neither do we. However, our family units, while having been eroded by liberalism int aht past 50 years, are still worlds above the family culture of your group. Albeit, quickly declining under liberal laws and media influence that your people blindly and wrongly support becasue you don;t understand their true purpose of ultimately eliminating any shred of political power that you can ever hope to have. Conservatives are for your group power. Liberals are against ALL group power, except that of the controlling ethnic class (research communism).
Reinforce your family units (as in stay together, teach family values, and put more resources into your kids) and then perhaps two generations from now your people will learn to co-operate with one another to the end of increasing your political and economic power. The only political power you have is an illusion, because it is completely dependent on Jewish support.
Why do you want to live amongst us anyway? It should throw up alarm bells that something is severely wrong that you need us so badly. Build your own towns, hopsitals, schools, etc. Why do you need us? That’s another perspective on the issue that sheds light on the problem: that you need us but we don’t need you to survive. Don’t deny it, otherwise you wouldn’t care that white people want to be ont their own. It wouldn’t phase you. it wouldn’t phase me if balck people wanted to live on their own. Is white culture your culture? NO. So, there is no reason to want to live amongst us other than to live off of us or erode our political power to effect our own destiny. Don’t take it as an insult, but as a challenge to correct the problems in your culture enough that you can pool your money, your resources, and to educate your kids to the point that you can build these things for yourselves. That’s the adult response, and the response that will assure that you aren’t exploited for the next 300 years.
This is the essence of white spearatism. Its the mirror of Farrakhans politics. The correct politics that will lead to your independance as a people. I know of no legitimate white rights person that feels that whites are superior. “White supremacy” is a red herring designed to discredit our desire to be self determinant, or to otherwise shout us down when we speak up for ourselves.
Get going and start building your power, but not at our expense, becasue in the end we will both lose our freedom.
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Denial, denial. Take a sociology class before you attempt to vomit your opinion on the origins of racism, which are omnipresent within the consciousness of the black community. Annoying are these romantic views of black america being one day united in a front to confront their white “oppressors.” Black racism’s origins are in the racism of blacks. Period. Grow up, crybaby.
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So to summarize my understanding of this post, Black racism is no big deal because White racism is worse overall, and Black racism is OK because its just an awakening of sorts to modern injustice?
Racism might be dominant in our institutions and might enjoy many enclaves throughout the country, but please don’t generalize about “White” people. I am white. I currently live, and grew up in, a community which is 18% white, went to a high school which was more than 80% black. My mother has spent her entire career teaching at underprivileged schools. This is why they moved to this neighborhood in the first place. I recall many of her students coming over for dinner when I was younger, and once they even came over to help move the piano.
When my ancestors first came to America in the 1800s, after the Emancipation Proclamation, we were not considered white. We enjoyed many of the economic benefits of being white, while socially remaining ‘less than white.’ We were forced into tight exclusive communities. When we treated blacks as equal in our businesses in the South in 1899, we were hanged. Our ethnic origins were used as evidence against us in the courts. During the same period of slavery in America, my ancestors villages were relentlessly sacked, with my ancestors being taken into slavery by the North African slave traders. This is, after all, how my family got its darker skin tone. My ancestors came here fleeing oppression, in search of the same equality of opportunity which the black community seeks today.
I didn’t understand racism until I entered high school as a minority student. I remember walking in on the first day, nervous, but excited about the change of scenery. My excitement was short lived as I was quickly met with hostility. “What you starin at white boy?” Where I had once considered myself just a ‘guy’ now I was suddenly a ‘white guy’. I didn’t understand the significance of this at first, but I got the feeling that I there was something wrong with me, just for being white. I quickly learned to not make eye contact with anyone and to just look down at the ground. Walking through the halls, into the bathroom, and into the classrooms I would get pushed and shoved. Usually a shoulder push. Several times I even got knocked to the ground, as the other students laughed. “Get the f- out of my way Cracka.” I never fought back, I never said a word. I had finally come to the understanding that for being white, I was this representation of massive injustice towards the other students. I was shamed and looked down upon due to my apparent race. The 2 mile walks home were even worse, out of the eyes of teachers and resource officers and are too painful to recall in any detail.
But how could this be? My family certainly wasn’t involved in the American slave trade. My family was a victim itself to the slave trade during the very same period in time. To label me as this symbolic oppressor, a cracker, was indeed the cruelest of lies. Ultimately the mistreatment resulted in me dropping out of school, as I couldn’t get a transfer, and much of my teen years were marked by social isolation.
I understand my experience is only an isolated example of racism, and that this post is talking about the big picture. However, I do believe it highlights the flaws in “Black vs White” or “Black racism vs White racism” thinking on an individual level. The fact that “White racism” is objectively worse overall should not discount “Black racism” or the impact it has. Why try to validate or downplay or sympathize with *any* racism? It all sucks.
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@ George Whitefield
I never said black racism was no big deal. You think I am cool with hate crimes? Or with the damage that internalized racism has caused? If I said otherwise in the post then please point it out because if I did it needs to be changed.
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Blacks can be racist, you don’t have to be in a position of power over another to be racist. Would you consider a backwoods KKK chapter full of dirt poor hicks racist? Of course you would. They have no power over blacks or anyone else. Your average white is Justg struggling to survive like everyone else. I work 2 jobs to support my family, I don’t have time to keep the black man down and partake in racist activities I simply have no time. I am from West Virginia, one of the poorest places in this entire country. Also over 90% white. If white privledge was real and everything was actually peachy for all white people this state would not exist.
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I think that racism against black people is a HUGE problem and bigotry against white people is very small.But it still bothers me when people stereotype white people as stupid, racist, shallow etc. Because I do not like that people portray me a certain way just because I look a certain way. I have every right to be offended over that. It isn’t racism, it isn’t a danger it doesn’t impede my life in any way, but I still have the right to be offended and hurt without being labeled a racist. I am not claiming black racism, just claiming that in indivudual cases where I think white people are portrayed as racist can be hurtful, just like claims that I were a pedophile because of my race or gender would.
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Black people, i wanted to start out and tell you I’m sorry that Rich White people 100s of years ago purchased you in the African Slave Trade and brought you here to America to be slave workers until you were freed by Abraham Lincoln in 1863.
Sincerely,
The White Irish Poor Non-Slave Owners
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^^^ Another one for the Broken Records Dept.
Hmm. That reminds me … this blog is way overdue for a commenter making an off-topic ‘No Reparations’ post.
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Fiamma
It must be nice to dismiss any argument you can’t answer by calling it a “broken record”, off-topic, etc. That’s what abag does.
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Black Racism is GREATER than white racism specifically because whites have been guilt tripped into being nice to blacks (largely becuase we have have been taught only partial history).
White vote for both white candidates and black ones and blacks mostly vote based upon skin color.
Whites have not been taught that the first slaves brough to America were white or that most slaves brought to America were white (or that the town of Sanford Florida was built by SWEDISH SLAVES).
We have not been taught that 50% of indentured servants died BEFOR being freed. We have not been taught how many whites died so blacks could be freed.
We were not taught that whites enslaved other whites and that blacks enslaved blacks for eons.
African Americans are the richest Africans in the world, but they complain the most.
Just cuz you hateful people are ignorant of the history of bondage that whites have been through just makes you ignorant and hateful.
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Well imagine that… An entire race that must be “tripped ” into being nice to people.
But you just said above that the only reason they do so is based on some sort of false guilt… not out of a sense of colorblind fairness. You see, the knife of your reasoning cuts both ways.
That’s probably because it’s not true. I suggest that you google these two phrases:
1) Indentured servitude
2) Chattel Slavery
Once you are familiar with the differences you can then apologize… or better yet, begin attending a Community College.
ONLY 50%??? Or as theAfrican slaves would have referred to it… “GREAT odds!!!” (by comparison to their percentages)
You mean that big war that happened when the textile-producing Southern States tried to secede, and the Northern industrial States went to war to make sure that they didn’t? I urge you to actually READ the history of that war and discover how late Slavery ever became an issue in that war (mostly as a way of destabilizing the South). “White people” were not dying to set Black people free – they were dying to keep resources within their control and to prevent a new rival nation from forming on the southern border of their continent. Slavery was brought in almost as an afterthought.
When you say “We” above, I assume that you mean those who never attended Community College? Because the rest of us pretty much got that… but of course, if we look at the percentages of HOW MANY Black slaves were brought into the Americas and HOW FEW White “slaves” I think you will see WHY the issue has not been pressed.
I also notice that you think that only Blacks enslaved each other for eons… As if Whites just got the idea from watching BET. Allow me to quickly disabuse you of that notion.
“In pre-Viking times, as well as during the Viking period, Swedish tribes regularly made slaves of members of neighbouring tribes. Viking society was to a certain extent a stratified caste system. The Thralls, who according to Norse mythology were descended from a son of Ríg (Heimdall) called Thræl, were at the bottom of the caste system. Thralls could be born into slavery, or become slaves by committing crimes. These conditions were common in Scandinavia and Danelaw-controlled England.”
Here’s a nice image to match.
Oh no… I’m afraid that it’s YOU who has been mistaken… about a great many things. But again, the Fall quarter is just upon us! Community College! Invest in your future! A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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You are a complete racist moron. Stop trying to excuse the actions of black racists by mentioning white racists. ALL racism is equal, regardless of who is committing it. The only difference is that no one gives a damn when 5 black people rape, torture, and murder a white couple just for being white, but when a black drug dealing thug is shot in self-defense everyone screams racism. Get over yourself and realize that EVERY race has its racists, and they are ALL equally wrong.
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Nice comments , King
Its really telling when white people dont want to own up to the fact that they invented racism, they put the spin on it, as an excuse for their horribly cruel behaviour to other non white people they went about conquering and enslaving…I mean black African slavery got so big , it became the market, not just bringing slaves to push the agricultural markets , the slavery itself became the market…how disgusting is that?
And white people now want to acuse the victums of this racism, when they defend themselves, of “racism” ?!
The problem with racist white people is, if they read about 5 people who raped someone who happen to be black, they call it all black people…I nearly got attacked by a white gang recently (im white by the way), should I make a blanket judgement about all white people based on that?
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@You are an idiot!
Huh?
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The white population own a big portion of the America and its true most black Americans are lazy and look at the role of the black fathers in the family. They are always absent. Man is the head of the society and if the head is rotating in the wrong direction so do the whole family. Black American killed martin luther king dream. They are a shame to the entire black population.
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Willy,
Are you white?
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Historically, the black male has never been the head of the family because after slavery and even today, white white man (who mostly controls the jobs)will not hire him because of racism and fear. The black female was less of a threat and therefore she would go out and get jobs from the whites as maids and cooks. This still goes on. I look around my federal government office and see black men apply for certain jobs. i see the resumes they are very quailified but never make it into the finaly running. Most of them that apply are already holding jobs in other offices.
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I am white, and I am proud of it too. I am a racist – yes I am very aware of who is white, black, yellow or green because God gave me eyes the can see colour.
I challenge those who feel so sorry for the poor American Blacks – to go to South Africa or Zimbabwe or Mozambique or Namibia – forget it; go to any country in Africa – they are all ruled by Black. Stay there for one month – see if you like that.
I assure you there are absolutely no racism or discrimiation against blacks in Africa. Rather the contrary.
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This article is very truthful and so are most of the comments by individuals struggling against white racism. Most people in America are white and white
hispanics are currently going through the process of intergration into white culture just like the Irish, Italians, and Eastern Europeans before them.
America is mostly white and always will be mostly white. As stated many times in this blog, because of how the system works whites have most of the power. I believe their majority is the key factor. Tactics used to end white supremecy and institutional racism are key, and any gains made can easily be reversed. All attempts to shame white people for racism will fail, or even win an argument where they walk away. Even if black racism is not white racism whites won’t listen because they wills say, well if the shoe was on the other foot, yes blacks would be just like me. I have too many other problems in my life and other sysems of hierarchy to fight to spend anytime worrying about racism against blacks. They might personally care about limiting racism against their black friends and neighbors, but not all blacks because they preceive blacks as out to get them morally. I agree white people are very feeling driven.
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This blog proves that “racism” and the amorphous “system of white supremacy” are meal tickets for the grievance monger crowd. I’m impressed the author had the guts to actually admit that blacks are racist, many of these so-called “anti-racist/social justice” blogs and militant black websites assert that so-called “people of color” cannot be racist and instead are merely “bigots”. So when a young black man in Philadelphia admits to a news crew that he and his thug friends target Asian immigrants to rob, he’s not a “racist” right? And on the subject of “power dynamics”, blacks have WAY more power when it comes to their victim identity! Blacks will always have the privilege(yep, I used that word without “white” attached to it) of the racial grievance game in America. Your white boss can fire you for your poor work performance, and you can cry “Racism!” and both the ACLU and NAACP will be more than happy to back you up. Meanwhile, that unassuming white boss’s life will be made a living hell by false accusations of racism while you laugh all the way to the bank. And let’s not forget that black victims of whites(Rodney King, Oscar Grant, and Trayvon Martin even though he was shot by a Latino) yet white victims of blacks such as the couple in Tennessee and three white girls in Atlanta get NO coverage.
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@ Dimitri
This meal ticket you speak of is either imaginary or not well known to blacks. Blacks regularly have twice the unemployment rate as whites, are paid less for the same education and have less than 5% of the average household wealth that whites do.
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@ abagond
Blacks regularly have twice the unemployment rate as whites, are paid less for the same education and have less than 5% of the average household wealth that whites do.
You assume a disparity in employment, earnings and wealth equals discrimination. That’s not necessarily true.
When you compare people of similar IQ across different races you’ll find they all have similar unemployment and earnings.
As for household wealth, even blacks who earn more than whites save less. Even 60% of NBA players who earn millions of dollars during their careers file bankruptcy within 5 years of retirement. Whose fault is that?
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How is this determined?
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@Dimitri
Don’t know where to begin or if I should begin. “So when a young black man in Philadelphia admits to a news crew that he and his thug friends target Asian immigrants to rob, he’s not a “racist” right?”—You do know their is a difference between being a bigot and being racist? So it would depend on why these boys did it. Was it because they believed they were Superior or is it simply because they can’t stand Asians?
“And let’s not forget that black victims of whites(Rodney King, Oscar Grant, and Trayvon Martin even though he was shot by a Latino) yet white victims of blacks such as the couple in Tennessee and three white girls in Atlanta get NO coverage.”—Actually that list is much longer, but you don’t know t hat because of the same media coverage that does not cover any and everything. Blame the media not the victims skin color. This is what I find moronic about some people or rather certain white people. You see an injustice, but instead of complaining to the media or the big business or whatever who have perpetuated the injustice you walk around whining about “it’s the blacks.” Then you complain on black blog sites like when can change it and many of the blacks are thinking. Really dude. You have had privileges and you are complaining about news coverage. just sayin
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Honestly I disagree. Black racism is in some ways, a mirror image of White racism because Black ”racism” is a reaction to White racism.
However Black bigots don’t have the power to oppress Whites the way racist, elite Whites have oppressed Blacks, poor Whites and minorities for centuries. The rich, White elite used and is still using skin power and their economic, social and political power to stay on top and make sure the poor Whites, Blacks, Latinos and other minorities stay on the bottom. It is beyond me how these poor Whites in the South and mid West even around the country voted for Republican nominee Mitt Romney when he wasn’t even in for their best interest.
It saddens me to read comments from racists on this blog site because we should all realize that everyone was created equally in the eyes of God. Everyone has a chance to a free and equal life.
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Whites get more news coverage when they go missing than blacks do.And the blacks that do crimes get arrested right away so there is no need for a huge coverage like there is need when there is a killer on the loose.When jeffrey dorner killed those white cops and an asian and her fiance there was huge media coverage.
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Those that try to argue that black racism is just as destructive or worse than white racism would usually try to play the “two wrongs don’t make a right” card. But, they usually say NOTHING when it comes to white racism, especially in systematic terms. In the end they are not showing their virtues, but their hypocrisy.
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How is this determined? — king
I’ve already given evidence on another thread.
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@BrothaWolf
”Black racism” doesn’t exist. The oppressed can’t oppress the oppressor. It doesn’t go that way. Sadly many Whites like to use terms like reverse racism and crap like that.
You can be a Black person and be prejudice and bigot towards other cultures and races. You, as a Black person, don’t have the power to oppress and make other people’s life miserable based on social and economic standards and skin color and ethnicity that the rich White elite has been doing for centuries.
No, I am not excusing Black bigotry at all. I just don’t like bigotry, racism or institutionalized racism that plunges all minorities.
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@ Churchs
He asked you how is that determined? He did not ask you what evidence you provided and when. Yet another situation where my point has been proven.
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There is no “white privilege”.That is a scam.It might also be called an excuse.For if non-whites fail,they can blame it on “racism” or “privilege” rather than lack of ability.I will say it once again.
The only scam here is your bullsh*t responses. First off, you are going on the premise that most of the blacks here are blaming whites for any failures they accrue. Not so. Identifying social ills as a result of white supremacy does not equal the failure you are alluding to. A successful black person is successful in spite of white supremacy. Those that speak out against it instead of going with the ‘flow’, seek to identify various forms of white supremacy in order to assist other blacks . As iterated time and again, this blog is not designed to assuage the feelings of white folk, especially not ‘race realists’ such as yourself. Race realism =whites feeling good about themselves nothing else. Pseudo-science doesn’t count!
Despite the prevailing academic and political dogma on race,the disparity of achievement that exists and has always existed between the races is because of the distinct and measurable differences between them,not racism or oppression or privilege or whatever.Everyone knows this,but few have the courage to say it.
Yet you will readily pull statistics out of your bunghole to prove just how ‘stupid’ black folk are when convenient. You can’t pick and choose what facts from mainstream scholarly tomes you wish to quote when it suites your views. Who are you trying to kid? You are woefully lacking in any historical knowledge period, so don’t even bother with any nonsense. You are delusional when you allude to ‘everyone knowing it but lacking the courage to say it’. Who are these people? Your fellow race realist who are repeatedly trounced in the scholarly fields? Clowns like Phillip Rushton who went to a mall in Toronto and asked men how far the could ejaculate and gave them fifty dollars? Phantoms? These ‘scholars’ read like something out of MAD magazine, they cannot be taken seriously.
The elephant being that there is no inborn racial equality and that the differences between the races will ALWAYS keep them from achieving at the same level,regardless of how much intervention is used to create the illusion of equality.
Feel good about yourself Neeva? Take your tin hat off. It is you who are under an illusion or should I say delusion?
No,and it wouldnt no matter how many generations passed.
Then why are you on this blog? Is this your version of a pep talk? You and your ilk should be mocked and derided not ‘debated’. You are here to show your contempt for blacks nothing more, nothing less. Your level of intelligence is apparent as you choose to communicate with people you consider inferior. If you are an example of being ‘superior’, I will take inferiority any day.
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Black anger is responding to hatred from racist whites. We are responding to racist who approach us with negative sterotypes,lies, violence etc. We lack institutional power of elitist whites. We maybe bigoted and prejudiced but we don’t have the power to oppress. We don’t have the power to control the police force, the schools, hospitals, the news media, film and entertainment media. But elitist whites do. In my opinion black racism doesn’t mirror white racism.
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To you the world is black and white. In fact the, banks, newspapers, film industry, fashion industry may be owned by people who are white, But white people who own these industries and the white people who affect policy through institutions such as the police, the courts, and congress, may not be the same white people. I find that in your eyes, I am lumped with people, some good some bad, strictly on the basis of my race. Your refusal to distinguish us from each other is I believe a blatant attempt to demonize all white people. To be white is to be guilty. To be white is to be a devil. Why do you do that? Why do you insist on doing that so that no matter what individuals and groups of white people do to try and help you address your issues, you refuse to recognize or even acknowledge those efforts. I begin to think it is done intentionally. It is policy.
I have read about a movement, Black Liberation Theology that teaches and promotes the vilest and most extreme sorts of violence, not against specific whites or white controlled institutions who may be responsible in part for black angst, but against all whites period. Is there any truth to that? If it is true, don’t you see that at some point, by refusing to allow us to distinguish ourselves from each other in your estimation of us, you force us together. You force us to join in a common struggle to resist black rage because you give us no avenue for cooperation and mutual support. Again, why do you do that? What is the payoff?
In an earlier post you eviscerated a fellow for suggesting you might recognize and maybe even mildly appreciate the sacrifice of the 300,000 union soldiers who died in the Civil War. He didn’t even mention the 1,500,000 who were severely maimed, such that upon returning home they were reduced from bread winner to burden on their struggling families.
You know the truth. I can tell you know history. You could have supported his argument by reminding him of the 3/5’s Compromise, the Missouri Act of 1820 and the Kansas Nebraska Act passed right before the war. In truth you know the political battle against slavery started even at the founding of this country. Maybe the official shooting didn’t start until 1860 but Missouri and Kansas along with other border states were soaked in blood well before 1860. And I’ll wager you know that as well. You might sit in this forum and deny the war was fought over slavery but that doesn’t for one second change the fact that it was The truth is simple really: No slavery, no war. You could salute the sacrifice of our ancestors even as we mourn the tragedy that yours endured. But you won’t will you?
It’s as if there is a policy among some of the black intelligentsia not to acknowledge anything we have done for you and with you. Instead you only belittle us and deny even the most parsimonious recognition. Why is that? I become suspicious. The thought passes my mind that you are engaged in a deliberate policy to demonize white people. You’re not interested in debate. Propaganda is your mission isn’t it? To what end?
You know, it’s not too late. Lot’s of great leaders have looked at and left liberation theology, Malcolm X for instance. There have been others. Even Farrakhan has been having his doubts lately…..publicly no less.. Lol, gotta go,. blog you later..
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itsme
If you actually read and look around on this blog, you will soon find that there have been and still are White commenters and contributors who are respected by most, if not all. i think you are getting the wrong idea from reading one or two posts.
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@itsme; If this does not apply to you then why do you take umbrage?
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@ Black Racism is the Good Kind of Hate
“Black Racism is GREATER than white racism specifically because whites have been guilt tripped into being nice to blacks (largely because we have been taught only partial history).”
“White vote for both white candidates and black ones and blacks mostly vote based upon skin color.”
Isn’t that a shame; and all this time I thought that they primarily vote, and overwhelmingly so, for candidates representing the Democratic Party. Even Walter Mondale in his losing bid to Ronald Reagan, a shellacking, received nearly eighty per cent of the black vote. So was George McGovern against Richard Nixon in 1972.
I wished someone had told me, since I’m without sight, that Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, LBJ, Hubert Humphrey, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore & John Kerry, all democratic presidential candidates, who garnered mid-seventies to high eighties percentage of the black vote; going as far back as the sixties, were actually Black.
Again, I’m befuddled, since this voting pattern was also consistent for democratic gubernatorial and municipal candidates – Black and White. They even gave the plurality of their votes to Alabama’s, Governor George “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever” Wallace after he had his epiphany that black people were human beings after all – a realization he came to in the latter years of his political life as Governor of Alabama.
“Whites have not been taught that the first slaves brought to America were white or that most slaves brought to America were white (or that the town of Sanford Florida was built by SWEDISH SLAVES).”
How ironic! The Swedes benefited handsomely from the Atlantic Slave Trade by the way of their trading posts on the West African Coast and their colonies in the Caribbean. One hardly hears about some these Scandinavian countries involvement in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade either.
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@ Black Racism is the Good Kind of Hate
I forgot to mention that this voting pattern also applies to candidates running as democrat or on a democratic ticket for congress.
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The is no difference, racism IS racism, no matter to what has been created. BLACK PEOPLE: Simple attacking whites not sol your problem, only create more! majority of the whites of today aren’t evil. Stop using the race card!
WHITE PEOPLE: It’s hard the life of black people, so please, not be so rude. All you are right to defend against the black bigots, but not generalize all black people.
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^^^^^^^^^^^Huh?
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Im a white canadian woman. I judge people (and it doenst matter where they are from of what they wear) on if they are nice friendly open minded, honest. I only like nice people. Every race has very nice and not nice people so it doesnt even come down to race does it. I just get angry when I have to move all over my country to survive on little work with no govt help when nonwhites are handed h omes, jobs, free healthcare and they just arrived in canada. Most in their race would never hire a white person- I have lived in toronto, vancouver small town alberta, ottawa and the maritimes. What I find is the best people and place with the least racism is where it is one culture canadian and one language ENGLISh and one religion Christian…………
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Im a white canadian woman.
And?
I judge people (and it doenst matter where they are from of what they wear) on if they are nice friendly open minded, honest.
Especially the coloureds that kiss your behind.
Every race has very nice and not nice people so it doesnt even come down to race does it.
What does it ‘come down to’?
I just get angry when I have to move all over my country to survive on little work with no govt help when nonwhites are handed h omes, jobs, free healthcare and they just arrived in canada.
Well let em eat cake then!
Most in their race would never hire a white person- I have lived in toronto, vancouver small town alberta, ottawa and the maritimes.
Why would they when there are ignorant whites like you? If they are on welfare, how do they manage to own businesses for which they can hire people? Make up your mind.
What I find is the best people and place with the least racism is where it is one culture canadian and one language ENGLISh and one religion Christian…………
In other words your a racist. ‘O Canada, our home and native land’, indeed!
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@ Jane; You are a racist.
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@Abagond
1) Black awareness cannot inclue acts of racism and violence against white. Two wrongs never made one right( Look at South African Blacks and their anti-white crusade, leading the creation of an nazist anti-black groups).
2) Black racism is esqually to white racism, isn’t an dominant vs dominated thing ( again look at south Africa and the boers being victms of racism and privations, altought many whites farmers still on top) Whites are the less numbered there. So no racism by the Boer’s part because they’re minority?
3) @leigh204 Quite the contrary. recently I see many people trying said to the world they want justice for Trayvon martin and to imprison of Zimberman. All because they supposed Zimbermm,an is white. But is clear he is an jew with Peruvian descent, an mestizo. Trayvon is not saint either, altought I not agree with Zimbermman’s innocence. Trayvon has been banned from scholl for use Majuriana herb. No one will know if the crime has motivated by racism or it’s only an non-racist crime.
Finally has Samir, that black panther who thiunks he can stay at voter’s poll and intimidate to Obama can gain. I not guilty Obama, but, let that man free? Injustice. Many white voters intimidators are under arrest, why not this NBPP thug cannot?
NOI, NBPP, Nation of Javé , nwabianism is purely racist.
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First of all – I not way love racists (black or white) But I must disagree with Abagond.
Tom Metzger ( racist neonazi) has said about black supremacists/nationalists as an whole, not only NBPP.
Blacks must stop only see the bad side of the whites (or that white supremacist idiots of KKK).
Many of the comments simple not take the angle of vision of an non-racist white and want only show whites’ wickedness, even wit valid arguments against.
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I want laugh at such afro-donkeys, always searching an excuse to attack and inflict self-guilt on white people.
One thing s afro-american, another are those clows here. ALWAYS the excuse is the white man this, white men that, never change the disc and stay complaining.
TO ALL AFRO-AMERICAN COMMENTERS, DONT BE FOOLED BY ABAGOND, HE IS AN INNATE ANTI-WHITE RACIST!!!!
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Thank Goodness he is an anti-white racist! If nothing else, to act as a foil to your tomfoolery. Have a nice day!
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LOL
Blacks have no clue about white people. You are never forced to be exposed to genuine white people who care about their heritage and any organizations they create like we are constantly exposed to black nationalist rhetoric from black organizations that influence a great deal of our civil rights laws.
We can’t even get a simple white student union without the ‘civil rights groups’ going insane, you can’t let white guilt die and allow white people to recover their sense of self because you don’t want to lose the privilege you have.
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Wow! its interesting to see these comments. Please understand that I intend no offense, but most of my race (Afrikaans) feels a lot like you guys. I live in a country where the ruling power is 99% black. we have one white minister as far as I know. While most large scale businesses are run by whites here, we have no power or say in the running of this country. Benifits afforded to black people mostly aren’t afforded to whites either. This whole argument about the history of white supremacy should be scrapped. Am I not my own man, independent from the opinions of my ancestors?
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[…] There is nothing like the black Klan. Some whites think the Black Panthers were like that, but they never went into white neighbourhoods to spread terror and lynch white people…” Read original post on:..Abagond […]
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Yeah. I recently took a IAT test, and I got these results: Your data suggest a moderate automatic association between Weapons and African American faces compared to European American faces.
I’m disappointed. But perhaps it’s because I took the test once.
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I personally feel sad when people lump others together according to race. When someone says “white people do this negative thing toward black people,” I feel that I am being lumped in with the bad apples, whereas I do not participate in that behavior. Whenever people essentialize, oversimplify, and generalize groups of people into set categories, and set one up as “good” and the other “bad,” I can’t help but feel that they are wrong. People are diverse in many ways other than race, and I think it would be wiser to think of ourselves as people, not white or black people. Lets be concerned for those less fortunate than us, regardless of skin color.
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@ K.J.M.
I direct you to this part of the site:
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A Campaign of Confusion on Racism
Part One.
At the beginning, height and end of apartheid and Jim Crow and the Black Freedom struggle that went with it, people were clear on what racism was. RACISM visible, legal and institutionalized. South Africa -apartheid, the USA , segregation. Every single institution was separate, unequal, maintained for the clear purpose of subordinating people of African descent and First Peoples and People of Colour and of Asian descent and benefiting ALL classes of people of European descent.
In the USA, the movement led by African Americans was massive and multi-racial. And that movement inspired many other movements (including the Black Conscious movement in South Africa): liberation struggles of Chicanos, First Peoples and Asian Americans; movements for educational reform, the women’s movement , against the US war in Vietnam an d the movements for gay and lesbian liberation.
But the price activists paid was high. In the South of America , (not unlike in other regions in the world)when Black people challenged racism, they were often fired, evicted, imprisoned, raped, terrorized, tortured and or murdered. In South Africa, an absolute campaign of repression.
When white people challenged racism, they were called race traitors (in South Africa-k ff*r boeties), ostracized from their friends, families and neighbours, denied opportunities to make a living (in South Africa a few had to go into exile) and in the US, occasionally had crosses burnt in front of their houses.
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Continued:
Part Two.
In spite of the overwhelming odds, the power of the organized, committed people won some significant gains, the most prominent of which was the end to legal segregation. Perhaps even more important , people who organizes got a real sense of their own power.
When the Black Liberation movements moved north, activists targeted institutions, schools, housing, social services, etc- that practiced segregation in fact , though not by law. (In South Africa, every single facet of segregation was legally enshrined).
African Americans called for self-determination in their own communities and challenged the white domination of institutions within their communities.
Many liberal whitesworked as professionals within these institutions and felt their privilege personally threatened. Using their discomfort with the term”BLACK POWER” as an excuse, they abandoned their solidarity with the Black Liberation struggle. In South Africa the liberal tried to show that they were on he Black’s side without giving up a shred of privilege and tried to dictate the terms for Black Liberation from white domination!
Sources:
Keith Lawrence
And Terrry Keleher
For the Race and Public Policy Conference
and my own words.
Continued –
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Part Three.
“Progressive whites abandoned their solidarity for different reasons. As they began to “organize in their own communities”against he war in Vietnam for educational transformation, for women’s and gay liberation and for an end to environmental degradation (that white men cause) they found it difficult to mobilize large numbers of white activists if the organizers demanded that these activists start from a firm anti-racist perspective, a lens through which to view heir own issues.
SNCC (Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee, a leading group in the aouthern Black Freedom Movement had suggested that radical whites organize against in their own communities in order to build genuine coalitions between activists of colour and white activists. But white activists simply organized their own communities and said less and less about racism.”
Source
Keith Lawrence
and
Terry Keleher
For the Race and Public Policy Conference
2004.
Continued –
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Part Four .
Conclusion.
“Meanwhile , the government of the USA was exercising its own form of virulent and violent racism. Under the leadership of J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, with the complicity of police departments all over the country, he government waged a WAR (my capitalization) against revolutionaries of Colour : African American, indigenous, Chicano, Puertorriqueno and Asian American. Hundreds/thousands? were imprisoned exiled or murdered. The FBI planted agents within revolutionary organizations, who spread distruc and often incited incendiary actions to entrap activists, and ensure them long prison terms. This campaign’s called COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program), and many activists believe it is still in very much in effect today.
With liberation movements in disarray, WHITE CONTROLLED INSTITUTIONS began to REDEFINE the meaning of the term “RACISM” in order both to undercut white support for liberation struggles,and to aggravate divisions among activists of Colour.”
No doubt, it was also to exonerate white people of centuries of racial hatred for their darker hued fellow beings.
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A short bit of history of “race”through the European blood lens.
Race as a biological idea was created in 15th century Spain by the Christian kingdom of Ferdinand and Isabella when Columbus was getting lost in the Atlantic.
So when the Moors ruled Spain, they not only had hot and cold running water perfumed with roses and public baths for all, thousand of bookstore and a dozen universities. [very far cry from ‘dirty, uncivilized, stupid, s av ges’].
This was the only period in European history that that Jewish people were treated more justly. Jewish people flourished during the Moorish empire .
But those lovely Christians, with their Inquisition, forced many Jews and Muslims to convert to Christianity upon the threat of tortuous death and or be expelled from Spain.
Limieza de sangria was a practice to “test the blood” and to find out the lineage of the Moors and Jews to ferret out non-Christans. (I am thinking Nazism, South African Pencil Test, KKK).
So, one drop of “dark”blood and you were out!
The Inqusidtors took limpieza de sangria very seriously and would ceremoniously don long white robes and pointed white hoods!
Coincidence?
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Next comes the ‘Infidels and S v ges lens.
This distortion of vision of humanity had to be justified when their eyes could not stop popping out what with all that gold in the Gold Coast and Caribbean. (It still has not stopped popping out).
The European conquerors needed to create a theological justification for the conquest of the Americas and Africa.
How do you square rapacious kleptomania and sadistic murder and not go to hell you where you will burn for an eternity?
How could they annihilate WHOLE CIVILIZATIONS of First Peoples, steal a continent and the land treasured and preserved by millions of Native people? How could they kidnap millions of African people, and sadistically enslave them for the rest of their natural lives until they fall down dead from being worked past the state of human endurance?
So, the Spanish and Portugese, sought out the wisdom of the Pope.
“Do not worry your good Christian hearts, my children. You are doing the ‘infidel’ a great favour, by removing him for his sinful ways. It is all right to take the land from the “infidel” because he has violated Christian law.
In these cases, I say, hesitate not when killing if the”infidel” doth protest”
“As for the “s v ge”, it is important to enslave him to teach him the virtues of Christianity. Do not worry your heads, as matter of fact, you would be doing those “s av ges” a great Christian favour by removing their sinful ways”
“Now, go forth and conquer and don’t forget , 10 Hail Mary’s and 20 Our Fathers. The Lord be with you.”
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Through the European ‘scientific’ lens.
In the rise to “enlightenment”a misnomer if you ask me, Christianity was challenged by secular and scientific revolution. The European “scientist”created a hierarchical model to justify colonialism after European enslavement of Africans in the Americas came to an end.
SO, the “pinnacles of humanity” found alarge skull with a big cranium in the Caucuses, the steppes of Russia and categorized Europeans as Caucasians since they had “bigger brains”.
The “big brains” found a category for Asian people in Mongolia which was supposedly the historical home of Asians.
So in their quest for justicafication of slavery and colonialism, the big head Caucasians had to dehumanize people of African descent by, Voila! categorizing them by a neat trick -Negroids. The larger craniams could dehumanize African people by convincing themselves that only good for one thing and that was enslaved labour.
Don’t even name them after their continent, but after a ‘race’. So, easy ideological justification for slavery and colonialism : they are not really a people- no civilization, no culture, no homeland, no history.
Why not Africoids? Where is Blackia and “Negroland”?
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Through the lens of economics: a human being is renamed a slave.
The Europeans had created the world’s first racially-based system of slavery.
What is not taught is that enslaved labour of the African and First Peoples was the capital of capitalism.
Capitalism did not arise from enterprising bootstrapping . It arose from the blood, sweat and tears of the people of Turtle Island and Africa. The wealth that made the European colonialist and enslaver wealthy derived from land stolen from the First People and the system of racially based chattel slavery.
Stolen land, genocide and chattel slavery.
European colonizers and enslaved, used the terms “N gro” and slave interchangeably, so if an AFRICAN was not enslaved, he would specifically be identified as a “free N gro”.
The European enslaverand colonizer looked upon all enslaved people of African descent and the only thing to them were slaves.
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Apology for many typos: enslavers, not enslaved
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Race: through the European lens of subhumanity.
Humanity has the European to thank for putting Africans and First Peoples (around the world) in the category of animal.
So , if the only assignation for a person of African descent is a “slave”, how do the “pinnacles of humanity” square the fact of thousands manumitted people of African descent in the colonial and post cololonial period?
Why, of course, reduce their humanity to that of an animal. Depict the African in obscene, grotesque and vile caricature as an animal and treat him as such. Reduce them to beasts (of burden). Treat them and mock them as beasts. And codify that status legally.
And the idea that the First People were as “sa va ge as the wolf”, “beasts of the the forest” was borne in the mind of George Washington. George Washington, a large landholder and chattel enslaver and fighter against the indigenous people, had declared that it was cheaper to take up /buy the land that make war against the “Indian”who was a s v ge as wolf who will attack when least expected. That metaphor has stuck and still is a lens through which the First People are viewed by European colonizers of America.
The idea that the indigenous people were animals was originated by the European colonial mindset and treatment towards the First People.
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Source: Papers for the Race and Public Policy Conference 2004.
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Race through “enlightenment” and “reason”: The Primitive.
One of the most damaging and enduring myths of the African and indigenous people of the world, was spurred by the philosophical “insights”of Hegel, Kant, Hume, Mill, Locke ,et al.
As late as 1963, Oxford historian, Hughe Trevor Roper said: “Perhaps in the future, there will be some African history to teach. But at the present there is none, there is only history of Europeans in Africa. The rest is darkness, and darkness is not the subject of history. ”
Voila! A whole continent and all its history dismissed with a snap of the finger.
[They would never accept even in the light of evidence, the linguistic connection of Wolof and ancient Kemetic languages.]
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In some of his his most virulent racist passages in his Philosophy of History, Hegel expounds his views on the African.
“The N gro ………exhibits the natural man in his complete wild, and untamed state, we must lay aside all thought of reverence and morality -all that we call feeling -if we would rightly comprehend him; there is nothing harmonious with humanity to be found in this type of character. …………
At this point, we leave Africa, not to mention it again. For it is no historical part of the World; it has no movement or development. ………..
What we properly understand by Africa, is the Unhistorical,Undeveloped Spirit still involved in the conditions of mere nature. ………..”
So far as being documented, this person had never left the shores of Europe and had received his “information” from missionaries tales of the “exotic”.
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Hegel kept good company with the “abolitionist”Hume, who declared of of white supremacy.
“I am apt to suspect the N gros and in general all species of men to be naturaĺly inferior to the whites. There never was any civilization nation of any other complexion than white…..”
He further expounded how the indigenous people of America are “incapable of any culture ” so that their ‘racial’ standing “stands far below even the N gro, who occupies the lowest of all other levels”……..
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^^^^^^ I wrongly attributed the writing of Hume with that of Immanuel Kant.
And let us not forget that egalitarian lover of liberty: John Stuart Mill:He not only thought that colonialism was a very good idea, he argued that “despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarism. In On Liberty, he “philosophizes that colonized people need to be ‘improved ‘ by forcible obedience to ‘benevolent’ masters.
And not forgetting Locke, who is responsible for codifying racially based chattel slavery into the Constitution of the United States.
Of course, there are many more: Jefferson, Russel, Rousseau, Heidegger, etc.
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The “enlightenment” was also the beginning of scientific racism to justifiy all European crimes against humanity. The “ethics”, “moralities”and philosophical traditions that are continuously taught and venerated in universities across the globe, are the source of racism and oppressive structures that non Europeans suffer to this day.
The European human rights abuses, unacknowledged too many to mention crimes against humanity, perpetrated against Earth’s people’s are built on the philosophical foundation that has defamed and slandered and destroyed whole civilizations, pervertedly mischaracterizing them as having no value, no culture, no spirituality and religion, no history, no achievements, and almost nothing to contribute to except what we can be exploited for.
In the present day, this perverted slander and propaganda, comes in various forms, the distortion and devaluation of arts, the grotesque and stereotypical racist caricatures in film, books, comics, etc. Black and Other history and intellectual output “whited out ” by overwhelming (liberal) dominance of white academia.
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@taotesan
Wow! Lots of details and a lot of work.
I am unfamiliar with the South African Pencil Test. Please describe it in more detail.
I will ask more questions later.
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@Afrofem
In the tragicomedy of apartheid, the absurd pencil test was administered in South Africa until the fall of apartheid.
There were many laws legalizing active racial discrimination and oppression. One of those laws, was the Population Registration Act, whereby a bunch of Afrikaners could classify people into categories they saw fit.
So the “races” were sub-divided into white (including Japanese), Indian (Asian), coloured, i.e mixed race (including Chinese) and further subdivided into Other, and “native” meaning Black African (including Philipino).
This mattered greatly because one’s “racial”categorization could mean different worlds.
In borderline cases or where there was any “racial”ambiguity, to contest whether one is white or coloured (without capitalization) the humiliating pencil would be put in the person’s hair, to test the courseness /texture of the hair.This was used in tandem with other criteria- one could be interrogated where one lived, income, language, socialization. If the person had some European features, but the pencil stayed in , that person could be reclassified as coloured. Or if the pencil fell out ,re classified as European. (In apartheid days,whites called themselves Europeans).
There were many such cases. Often, whole families were separated and broken up with very tragic results. Reclassification to white meant inheriting the very best world and coloured, being subjected to separate ,inferior schooling,housing, education, amenities,etc.
One famous case is Sandra Laing. Abagond has a post on her.
The test was also administered on a “native” applicant to coloured. If the pencil stayed in the “native’s” hair he/she had to continue a life of the worst deprivation. If the pencil fell out, the he/she was reclassified as coloured a somewhat less harsh life of deprivation and oppression.
This was but one of many indignities and humiliations that the people of South Africa were subjected to.
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What I am noticing that after Jim Crow and apartheid, it was no longer the thing for white people to outright call Black people n gg rs and k ff rs. It was at the very same time, that Black people in both countries were instantly transformed into “Black racists”and “reverse racists”.
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@ Afrofem
Sorry for the long reply.
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So, what is reverse racism?
A term created and used post Jim Crow and apartheid, and used by white people who want to be first in line forever more. Those racists in denial use it to refer to angry and hostile behaviour by non privileged people towards whites. It is used against affirmative action policies, which supposedly gives preferential treatment to People of Colour over whites.
There us no such thing as reverse racism.
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We have George Wallace, one of the most virulent racist presidential candidates (on par with Trump), to thank for the coinage of reverse racism.
Wallace, during the 1968 presidential campaign, asserted that the government program that supported Black people were deliberately victimizing white people, in order to garner the white working class vote in the South.
He called affirmative action reverse racism. He carefully pandered to the white working class voters’ racism to win them away from the Democratic Party.
The “Southern Strategy” of the American Independent Party garnered 10 million white voters.
It has become the foundation of the American “New Right “organizations of the Republican Party, which controls Congress and has skewed the national dialogue on all social and economic issues in the U.S.
Reverse and Black racism has also entered into the arena in the “New South Africa” in 1994 ,which has employed Black Economic Empowerment which has sought to redress the great disparity of wealth wrought by colonialism and apartheid, by employing affirmative action initiatives.
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Last one: (for now)
In Dr. Francis Cress Welsing’s Dedication in The Isis Papers , ( I love this woman) she said “No persons who classify themselves as white living in the area referred to as the United States of America (or for that matter, in any other area of the world) would presume to tell any Black person (or any non-white person) what racism is or is not, until they have completely read Kenneth O’Reilly’s Racial Matters; The FBI’s Secret File on Black America, 1960-1972.”
“No Black person…………should discourse on racism or deny the conspiratorial dimensions of the local and global system of racism until he/she has read Racial Matters.
I would go on to say that no white person should presume to tell a Black person (or any Person of Colour) what racism is or is not. Period.
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@taotesan
Thanks for that description of the Pencil Test. One of the great absurdities of racism and oppression.
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