Golliwogs (1895) were black rag dolls common in Europe, Australia and New Zealand in the early 1900s – it was second only to the teddy bear. It comes from Britain, modelled on the blackface minstrels of America: jet black skin, big, wide eyes, big red (or white) lips, wild, woolly hair and wearing a short coat with tails.
It is a stereotype of a stereotype of a black man. They started falling out of favour in the 1960s, though they are still beloved by many older whites who grew up on them and see them as harmless.
Harmless they were not. Deep down even whites understood how the dolls dehumanized people of colour: gollywog, golly and wog have all become ethnic slurs. It started in the Second World War with British troops in North Africa calling Arabs “wogs”. One regiment in the 1960s even wore golliwog pins on their uniform, one for each Arab killed. “Wog” is now applied more generally to foreigners, particularly dark-skinned ones.
Golliwogs were created by Florence Upton in London in 1895 as a character in a book she did to get some money together for art school. She based it on a minstrel doll she had as a girl in New York. “Golliwog” is just a name that popped into her head. The book was a hit and doll makers began selling them.
In the 1940s and 1950s golliwogs appeared in several Noddy books by Enid Blyton:
Once the three bold golliwogs, Golly, Woggie, and Nigger, decided to go for a walk to Bumble-Bee Common. Golly wasn’t quite ready so Woggie and Nigger said they would start off without him, and Golly would catch them up as soon as he could. So off went Woggie and Nigger, arm-in-arm, singing merrily their favourite song – which, as you may guess, was “Ten Little Nigger Boys”.
Golliwogs were bad characters: once they robbed Noddy, leaving him naked in a dark wood while they drove off in his car:
The golliwogs in Noddy were removed in Britain in the 1980s.
A hanged golliwog appeared on the cover of Agatha Christie’s “Ten Little Niggers” (1939):
Robertson’s, a British maker of jam and marmalade, started putting golliwogs on its jars in 1910. Something they continued to do right up till 2001 – even though they were banned from London in 1983! Towards the end they were selling 45 million jars a year.
In 2009 Carol Thatcher, the daughter of the former prime minister, compared French tennis player Jo-Wilfried Tsonga to a golliwog. Tsonga, pictured right, is half black. Thatcher said it was merely a silly joke and refused to apologize.
Soon after it was discovered that one of the Queen’s shops were still selling golliwogs. They were pulled from shelves.
You can still buy golliwogs online.
The White American rock band Creedence Clearwater Revival called itself The Golliwogs from 1964 to 1968. But golliwogs were never big in America. It is not for want of racial insensitivity: in New Orleans you can buy a doll that looks very much like a golliwog, Nola Mae:
See also:
Just seeing that makes me want to retch. I never realized on of my favourite Christie books, And Then There Were None, was based on a book with such a derogatory name. All of this is disgusting -simply disgusting. I can’t believe that this doll and that term is still used.
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Abagond,
I have an original copy of Christies’s Ten Little Niggers. I bought it from a charity shop for £1 in the mid 90s. Oh, and when I was at boarding school, my favourite cuddle toy was a golliwog!
Menelik Charles
London England
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This is interesting. I am not sure if I would realize that was a doll representing a black person when I was a child. Even today, taken out of context (first image) it is difficult.
I think they were never popular in the US because they were European version of dolls so maybe not enough Americans had them. But it wasn’t because Americans were more sensitive and less racist.
Tsonga is an excellent tennis player and I’d love to see him in this year’s Wimbledon semifinals. 🙂 Carol Thatcher is… Well, Margaret Thatcher’s daughter. Nuff said, I’m afraid.
A lynched golliwog appeared on the cover of Agatha Christie’s “Ten Little N….s” (1939)
I had no idea the title used the N word (it’s “Ten little blacks” in Serbian). But the cover of the book is very telling because it’s an important plot point. So I have no idea if they went with lynching (did they have lynchings in Britain?)
or with a hanged person.
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I remember the controversy over Carol Thatcher’s comment quite well.
If I remember correctly the French tennis player then had dreadlocks unlike the picture depicted above
As a result the Independent Newspaper wrote this very interesting article
Paul Vallely: A repugnant caricature that should never be toyed with, Friday, 6 February 2009
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/paul-vallely-a-repugnant-caricature-that-should-never-be-toyed-with-1547665.html
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J:
I replaced the picture of Tsonga. Is that more how he looked at the time?
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And reading this post reminded me off:
Santa’s Little (Slave) Helper Zwarte Piet: Holland
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,594674,00.html
http://thefastertimes.com/photolists/2009/12/09/zwarte-piet-photos-of-hollands-totally-racist-christmas-tradition/
And again it reminded me of a tradition in Cornwall (UK) still in existence today as far as I know called ‘Darkies Day’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4603886.stm
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I don’t remember Tsonga with that haircut. Speaking of tennis, I do believe it would be great to see more black players. And speaking of black tennis players, mmm James Blake. But I digress.
SW6,
What is CCR?
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Abagond…
Maybe I do not remember the story that well. It appears as if it was different tennis player, to the above, or so this link would suggest.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://madnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/gael2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://madnews.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/carol-thatcher-thinks-this-tennis-player-looks-like-a-golliwog/&usg=__EPyV3uIxZo_ElCOVvHuZ0OY7__E=&h=400&w=280&sz=39&hl=en&start=16&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=pdU096QHU4RnoM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJo-Wilfried%2BTsonga%2Bcarol%2Bthatcher%2Bfrench%2Bopen%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4SKPB_enGB349GB349%26tbs%3Disch:1
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@Mira
The CCR is an American band that was mentioned at the bottom of the article.
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oh, lol, Creedence! Of course I know about it, I just didn’t know about the acronym. Thanks!
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I saw that voodoo doll(the last picture) in the French Quarter last year. I was at the James Hayes gallery buying some stuff, I actually meet the guy. Interesting to know. I love his voodoo dolls.
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Oh, so she said that about Monfils, not Tsonga?
Screw Carol Tacher. But read the comments…
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And how could I forget yet another subject but still on the same related theme:
Morris Dancers/dancing England and Wales- with the blackening of the face again :
“Another theory is that the black face tradition derives from earlier forms of the dance involving a Moroccan king and his followers (which links into the theory that the word “morris” is derived from moorish or moresco). There is recorded evidence from 1688 of payments in Shrewsbury of 10 shillings to Ye Bedlam Morris and 2 shillings for Ye King of Morroco [1].
There are even earlier recordings of a black-face morris tradition in Europe. Carved figures from 1480 in Munich, Germany show “moriscan dancers” with black faces and bells and evidence from France includes the quote from Arbeau circa 1580 which stated “In fashionable society when I was young, a small boy, his face daubed with black and his forehead swathed in a white or yellow handkerchief, would make an appearance after supper. He wore leggings covered with little bells and performed a morris”. However, there is too little recorded evidence to prove or disprove any linkage to the dances on the English Welsh borders”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Morris
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Damn Abagond you are good! Now wonder states like Arizona don’t want ethnic studies could you imagine what this country would be like if everyone know the true history of this country. I am sure yo have done a piece on Sambo, but just in case….
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/picaninny/
What kind of sick mind’s invent a cartoon where black children are tortured and murdered by alligators?
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To SW6:
Damn it!
I didn’t know about CCR having a prior incarnation. I like CCR. I like John Fogerty.
Man, what were they thinking?
It was a name chosen by the manager. (who later, when they were financially desperate, bought the rights to their songs for almost nothing… for years afterward, John Fogerty could not perform the material that he wrote for CCR…) The band later opted to change the name to CCR.
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@ Abagond,
I recall Carol Thatcher’s (daughter of Margaret) making that remark about Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. She made it in a small private gathering at a TV studio. She was reported by two guilt-ridden white liberals (one a fat, middle-aged feminist who makes a living out of anti-male ‘jokes’) and was promptly sacked.
Now Carol Thatcher is no friend of people of colour but she is a child of her time (the mid 50s) and this should have been taken into account when the decision was made to sack her (as should have the fact her remark was made in private).
What also might have been considered was the very uncomfortable fact that Mr Tsonga does, indeed, look not unlike a gollywog! Does a truth become uncomfortable just because it has a racial element?
Menelik Charles
London England
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I am sorry, but I am unable to find any similarity between Tsonga and Golliwog.
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Ouch. I knew quite a bit about golliwogs, but I was not ready for that Enid Blyton book quote. (And really, how can you be?) That… made me flinch.
I mean, for real?? She named one of them “Nigger”?!
I feel ill.
How there are people who can continue to buy/treasure these nasty little things, and supposedly “can’t see the racism, I swear!” is beyond me. Come on, white people. Seriously. What the hell are we supposed to think? I wasn’t even born when that was written, and it’s making me sick today, across fifty years of time.
I guess these are the same (white) people who are like, “when are black people gonna just, y’know, get over it?” Answer: when this shit never happened.
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@Menelik Charles
I find your points somewhat ridiculous, for lack of a better term. Ignorance is not an excuse.
For instance, let’s say two kids from Holland decided to come live in America. They decided to go and smoke weed in the bush, the smell went into the open air, and someone calls the police.
A judge would not look at them and say, “Gee kids, at least you smoked in the bushes. I have to give you credit for that. And you’re fresh from Amsterdam, where smoking marijuana is legal. Man, I just can’t punish you for that. You’re from a different culture, with a different system of beliefs.”
ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Carol Thatcher doesn’t live with the Stepford Wives. She appears to be a semi-intelligent woman, and should act like one. She can read, I presume, and therefore should be able to make herself aware of various sensitivities different groups have.
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@Menelik Charles
“I have an original copy of Christies’s Ten Little Niggers. I bought it from a charity shop for £1 in the mid 90s. Oh, and when I was at boarding school, my favourite cuddle toy was a golliwog!”
I’m sorry, I’m a little confused. Are you proud of that fact? You seem to be offended that North American blacks seem this as a object of racism. What, do you want a medal for it?
I’m sorry if that is the case, but I find that sad. If I found out that something I loved was a source of hatred towards another group, I would get rid of it -or ask someone to do it for me if I felt too much attachment.
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Cici,
You are partly correct, but I must note that cultural norms ARE different and it’s impossible to expect everybody around the world to know what would make a person in another culture offended.
However, Carol Tacher didn’t have this problem, since both her and golliwog are products of the same culture.
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I think both white and black Americans consider racist caricature and blackface anathema these days. But it seems like other parts of the world are still into it. The UK has its golliwogs. Mexico has Memin Pinguin cartoons. Australia recently got in trouble for primetime blackface routine. In ways, the US has been advancing more quickly on race than other parts of the world.
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Darn it. Another classic rock band down the drain. First I hear about Eric Clapton’s racist rant back in the 80’s then I hear about Tom Petty flying the rebel flag at some of his concerts. Now CCR.
I guess if a Black person wants to listen to classic rock a little research is required.
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@Mira
I do understand what you are saying. Cultural norms are different, and it may very well be impossible to know them all. However, in my example, the teens should have made themselves aware of the new culture before deciding to just suddenly immerse themselves in it.
You are right though.
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In ways, the US has been advancing more quickly on race than other parts of the world.
Like I said, these things are cultural. Remember, America had the worst caricatures and in so many ways set standards for racism. It is possible that in other parts of the world, blackface and caricatures don’t have the same historical stigma and therefore are not seen as equally offensive.
Like I wrote elsewhere, one must take American privilege into account. Just because something is offensive, or harmful, or good, positive and politically correct by American standards, it doesn’t automatically means it’s universal. I think Thad wrote about this- he gave examples of several things that are not considered offensive in Brazil. I believe Eurasian Sensation gave some Australian examples. Americans need to understand that their view of the world is not universal and that some things simply have a different meaning in a different cultural context.
A good example: Serbian candy called “Negro”.
This candy has absolutely no racist connotations in Serbia and is not connected to race in any way.
Still, in western context, it is seen as very racist and offensive.
Some reactions:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=243700
It is impossible to explain westerners that this candy has no racial connotations.
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… Not to mention chocolate cream bananas…
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“A good example: Serbian candy called “Negro”.”
I don’t think reasonably intelligent Americans would consider that offensive because it’s just a matter of language difference.
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FG,
Trust me. Some people expressed serious concerns over that candy. To blacks, it was obviously offensive, because Serbs are white and all whites are the same like white Americans. To whites, it was funny in a “look what those backward people in Siberia or wherever are doing, they never even heard of political correctness, so they make cool candies like this” sort of way. In any case, it was difficult, to say the least, to explain that the candy has no racial connotations.
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@Mira
@FG
I can definitely see what you’re saying here.
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The Negro candy is hard for me to understand. Negro is the word for black in many languages, or something similar to that. The bananas seem very innocent to me as well.
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Menelik,
I think you are being quite generous. In corporate/public institutions one would have expected her to be trained in the issue of diversity and equal opportunities.
Even if she was not – and personally I would not expect her to be – she was given the opportunity to apologise which she stubbornly refused to do.
Consequently by her actions she left BBC in an untenable position, especially as they offered her a get out clause. And as a result of her not accepting it they sacked here
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FG,
UK does not have it its golly wogs, since public pressure has removed them from ‘public gaze’.
I am not sure of the validity of:
“In ways, the US has been advancing more quickly on race than other parts of the world”
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Mira,
With regard to;
“It is possible that in other parts of the world, blackface and caricatures don’t have the same historical stigma and therefore are not seen as equally offensive”.
I doubt it very much within the last 500 years.
As for:
“A good example: Serbian candy called “Negro”.
This candy has absolutely no racist connotations in Serbia and is not connected to race in any way”.
Theis also another issue that can emerge from an example like this and that is the issue of ‘cultural sensitivity’
Would you like to say why the cake is not denoted in the Serbian language??
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FG,
What I think you find is that countries in Europe which have POC populations in countries ‘tend’ to be more ‘enlightened’ on the topic of ‘race’ than those countries which do not have POC therein.
However, even within Europe, it is often suggested that certain countries are better than others with regard to the issue of ‘cultural sensitivity’ etc.
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I’ll never forget loving Agatha Christie books to the extent my own existence when i was about 13 or so. Poirot and Ms. Marple were my all time favorite characters who filled my imagination with experiencing lofty highbrow English countryside living and society, taught me how to think like a detective demonstrating complex deductive reasoning by using ‘the little grey cells’ and some handy french phrases.
Then, around the age of 15 shocking heartbreak set in when I discovered her originally titled book in thePoirot series book ‘Ten little niggers’ was renamed ‘Ten little indians’ It was such a bad shock. I could still remember my feet physically turning ICE cold from the surprise and damned near choking on my own breath.
As if I was I had been comfortably sleeping only to wake up by someone having thrown icy cold water on me and then after that I could no longer put myself in her stories, reading them was NEVER the same and gave up trying and stopped reading her stories.
I tried to reason that it was a different time when such a word was used in a very lax capacity and fairly common place, but as I grew older I realized that if writers like Mark Twain, T.S eliot, Fitzgerald and William Porter (o.Henry) never used the ‘N’ word in any of their writings why did she (and Harper Lee in ‘To kill a Mockingbird’ as well) had to?
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Abagond,
Just to say the article I saw back then was related to Monfils.
This paper, was not the one I saw but it states:
The 55-year-old daughter of the former prime minister was axed by the corporation after she refused to apologise for using the term while describing black tennis player Gael Monfils.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23634611-carol-thatcher-aide-this-is-bbc-vendetta.do
Hmmm…confusing!!
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@ J
Menelik,
I think you are being quite generous. In corporate/public institutions one would have expected her to be trained in the issue of diversity and equal opportunities.
Menelik replies:
you should re-read what you wrote, and with a little more imagination (I don’t mean this offensively) you may understand what you wrote to mean indoctrination where you wrote “trained”.
Thatcher refused to apologise because she did not intend to offend, and she resented the ‘thought control’ aspect of her treatment (no one seeks to censor or punish Jo Brand’s public displays of misandry, so why censor someone over a private observation that wasn’t very far removed from the truth? On what basis, thus, can Brand complain about Carol Thatcher, unless one consider hypocrisy an appropriate basis for complaint?).
You know, political correctness can go way beyond civil behaviour, and become downright sinister and insensitive. What is called for, on occasions, is a measure of maturity and empathy for those who might outrage us. Jesus would have understood this!
Menelik Charles
London England
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J,
it was Tsonga NOT Monfils in which the comments were directed:
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,1933,bbc-sacks-thatcher-over-golliwog-gaffe,73099
and for the record, Jo Brand has never publically denied she was involved in Carol Thatcher’s removal from The One Show.
Menelik Charles
London England
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“Eric Clapton’s racist rant back in the 80′s” The nerve, I am not surprised his entire career is about ripping off black music. I am glad Layla broke you heard.
I was in a middle eastern film class, one movie from Lebanon features Negro Head candy. You should have seen the way one of the Egyptian guy tried to explain it away. That wasn’t as bad as James’ Journey to Jerusalem while the titular character was called “blackie” every five minutes. One of the Jewish classmates tried for 15 minutes to explain that it wasn’t racist. I did not even bother to tell him I knew about the Israeli Black Panther Party or the discrimination against Ethiopian Jews, I just stared at him and remained silent. It got so tense that the teacher let is out 30 minutes early.
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@ J,
also I think you’ll find that carol Thatcher did, in fact, apologise to the producer of The One Show for any offence she may have caused. See link below:
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,,golliwog-remark-could-end-thatchers-bbc-career,72999
Menelik Charles
London England
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SW6 said:
I wonder now why the hell Tina would have worked with Eric Clapton? For that matter, why would he wanted to work with Tina?
Menelik replies:
I wonder why Clapton would have dated Naomi Campbell; I wonder why she would have dated him:
http://people.famouswhy.com/eric_clapton_and_naomi_campbell-r1572.html
I guess his penis isn’t, what shall we say, David Duke? And as for Ms Campbell, well, let’s just say her mind and morality isn’t quite that of a Michelle Obama, and leave it at that, shall we?
Menelik Charles
London England
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J,
I doubt it very much within the last 500 years.
True, but we can’t be sure. In any case, I know it’s not considered equally offensive in the US and in another countries. Because historical context is not the same.
For example, I never watched “Othello” in a Serbian theatre, but how would you cast the role. What would you do to make an actor look darker than the others? If you go with darkening his skin, is that absolutely the same (in terms of offensiveness) as it would be in the US or Britain?
I’m not saying blackface is not offensive. I am just saying that different cultures have different historical experiences and in some of them another thing, and not blackface might be seen as more offensive.
Would you like to say why the cake is not denoted in the Serbian language??
You mean, why doesn’t it have a racial connotation?
“Negro” means “black” in Spanish- not “black people” but black as a colour. That is the colour associated with the chimney sweepers. The candy is fresh and menthol like and it’s supposed to clean your throat the way chimney sweeper cleans chimneys. There is no connection with black people in any way. The chimney sweeper portrayed is white and the word “negro” is never associated with black people here. So there’s definitely no racial connotation.
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@J
What I think you find is that countries in Europe which have POC populations in countries ‘tend’ to be more ‘enlightened’ on the topic of ‘race’ than those countries which do not have POC therein.
This is true- European countries with more POC tend to think about POC much more than those countries without POC populations. On the other hand, the contact with people of other races doesn’t mean less racism. POC people in these countries are often seen as a threat, stereotypes about them are created and most of the whites don’t fully accept them as members of their country. With countries without POC populations people are clueless about the race, but there are less stereotypes and whites don’t see them as threat. The type of racism in these countries (like mine) are the so-called “pre-contact” racism which is maybe not less problematic but it’s definitely different than in countries with larger POC population (and not to mention those who has a history of colonization).
@Menelik
It really doesn’t matter whether golliwog comment was directed to Monfils or Tsonga (even though I do believe it was Tsonga).
@eshowoman
I was in a middle eastern film class, one movie from Lebanon features Negro Head candy.
Never heard of that candy, but it’s not the same as one I’m referring to. I don’t know if Negro Head candy has a racial connotation, but Serbian Negro candy doesn’t.
@SW6
Mira, please stop. Your race based bonbons are making me feel hungry… and conflicted.
Sorry, sorry! But they are not race based and well, they are not THAT tasty (they are not sweet, and a candy that is not sweet is not a candy at all if you ask me).
As for Eric Clapton, I have no idea what he said, but I must admit I assumed he respected black culture (being a rock musician and all). Dating a black woman, on the other hand, doesn’t give him a pass. We all know there are racists who date outside the race.
But I must say I was never crazy about Clapton. He’s a good guitarist, but a bit overrated if you ask me. Hendrix was the best if you ask me- thought there are people who claim he is also overrated. That’s how it goes, I guess.
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Here is Clapton’s rant. And by the way he uses the word, “Wog” a few times.
Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. Wogs I mean, I’m looking at you. Where are you? I’m sorry but some fucking wog…Arab grabbed my wife’s bum, you know? Surely got to be said, yeah this is what all the fucking foreigners and wogs over here are like, just disgusting, that’s just the truth, yeah. So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country. You fucking (indecipherable). I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch’s our man. I think Enoch’s right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking (indecipherable) don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck’s sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he’s a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he’s our man, he’s on our side, he’ll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he’s on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton
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WTF? Agatha Christie titled a book “Ten Little N*”? In Britain they have “Darkies Day?” You can buy a Gollywog in this day and age in Lousiana. WTF! Seriously? I am f* outraged. This sh* needs to stop.
Trust me if there was a book called Ten Little Crackers,
and black people went around in white face with long noses, dancing to celebrate “Honkies Day” and sold offensive dolls making fun of some characteristic of caucasians people would be raging in the streets and NOBODY would think it is funny. Nobody would be trying to hear lame justifications about traditions and how it wasn’t doing anybody any harm.
This is bullsh* and I’m just mad about it. But I shouldn’t be suprised. Racism is a hell of a thing.
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I feel that this had to have some effect on white children. The same way white dolls had an effect on Black children.
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Wow — a very educational post!
Didn’t know about Agatha Christie’s “Ten Little Niggers” (1939). WHAT A TITLE!! And what a cover! Wonder what the book was about (or do I really want to know?).
Also didn’t know that one of my favorite rock bands called themselves the Golliwogs. Have never heard that they were racists so hopefully they meant to be sarcastic by calling themselves that.
Not surprised about Thatcher’s racial slur though.
Great post.
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poetess says,
WTF? Agatha Christie titled a book “Ten Little N*”? In Britain they have “Darkies Day?” You can buy a Gollywog in this day and age in Lousiana. WTF! Seriously? I am f* outraged. This sh* needs to stop.
Trust me if there was a book called Ten Little Crackers,
and black people went around in white face with long noses, dancing to celebrate “Honkies Day” and sold offensive dolls making fun of some characteristic of caucasians people would be raging in the streets and NOBODY would think it is funny. Nobody would be trying to hear lame justifications about traditions and how it wasn’t doing anybody any harm.
This is bullsh* and I’m just mad about it. But I shouldn’t be suprised. Racism is a hell of a thing.
laromana says,
poetess, I join you in your sense of outrage. It’s RIDICULOUS to see BLATANT ANTI- BLACK RACISM being justified and excused by certain Whites. This is a MAJOR reason why we have to CONTINUE discussing this subject in 2010 when we should ALL be EVOLVED beyond it by now.
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Menelik.
As you said in your earlier post, Thatcher was no friends to POC. Notwithstanding her mother and her brother who subsequently tried to overthrow the leader in Guinea
That you said she is no friend of POC should have been sufficient to explain, why she did not mean to cause no offence, why she did not think she caused an offence, and what was the big deal about??
With regard to apologising I believe her employers – like any other employer – set down what they required of her in the form of an apology – but she chose not to do so.
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Cheers Mira,
Just briefly,
1. With regard to countries without POC, what you find is that ‘they’ adopt the ‘stereotypes’ from Western media
‘
2.With regard to the Black faces historically we have enough data to suggest it was an ‘offence’ and/or at the very least a form of ‘paternalism’. Like the servant boy that accompanied Whites throughout much of Europe, over the past 500 years.
With regard to the Blackfaces most of the countries that do so,in no way view it as racism etc, and have problems understanding what all the fuss is about??
3. With regard to Othello, and maybe Agabond may wish to do a post on this. This play has aspects of racism within it, which has been largely documented within the literatureworld, even though many do not wish to admit it because it is the great William Shakespeare.
4. With regard to the word ‘negro’ for the ‘candy’. I do understand, I hope – but what I do not understand is why the Serbian word for ‘Black’ was not used instead??
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SW6: “If anyone knows of an interview with Fogerty explaining why they used that name, please throw up the link, thx.”
Fogerty might very well have been ignorant of the history behind the word. After all, the Golliwog stories and dolls thankfully never did catch hold here in the States the way they did in the UK.
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“4. With regard to the word ‘negro’ for the ‘candy’. I do understand, I hope – but what I do not understand is why the Serbian word for ‘Black’ was not used instead??”
Yeah, I was wonderingthe same thing. Also, the picture on the candy bag shows a Caucasian chimney sweep — there have been plenty of old movie sight gags concerning soot-covered white chimney sweeps who look like they’re in blackface.
IMO the name o the candy seems to imply that the pictured chimney sweep will soon look like a Negro as he gets more involved in his work.
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@Menelik Charles
Please don’t put Jesus into this like that. Jesus said in the Bible that we should take care not to let others stumble. For example, if we eat meat sacrificed to idols, but it offends our guest (as they feel it is not the right thing to do as a Christian), we should abstain from it.
Likewise, if someone takes offense to a term, we should try to accomodate them in order to avoid strife and offense.
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WRT Clapton, he was drunk and some of his true feelings came out. People are a mixture of good and evil. He has never disavowed those comments to my knowledge.
The flip side of course is that unlike some of the other British guitarists of his time (most notoriously Jimmy Page) Clapton always gave credit to the black musicians whose work he was covering and didn’t try to steal their royalties. He also promoted quite a few of them and toured with them-which helped their careers. So that’s probably why some of them were willing to give him a pass for such comments. Don’t forget most of the black musicians he was influenced by or working with had grown up during segregation and had no doubt heard similar things from whites all their lives. In addition it is not always easy to turn down possible greater exposure/money from making an album or doing a tour with Clapton when the reality is that you aren’t doing so well financially-as was the case with many black blues musicians in the sixties or seventies or today for that matter.
Elvis Costello made racially insulting comments about James Brown and Ray Charles. Charles forgave him. I don’t know if Brown did or not.
Jimmy Page never made any public racial comments AFAIK but on the other hand he made a habit of covering people’s music without proper attribution.
The Rolling Stones always gave proper credit and invited black musicians to tour with them but on the other hand had occasionally racially insulting songs.
So pick your poison…
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I didn’t even know these things had a name. during the summer from time to time I see ppl with these little black lawn jockeys. I hate those things and they look just like these gollywogs except they are dressed in jockey attire.
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Mira,
the name of the movie was West Beirut. It was a great movie but my enjoyment was really cut short by the slurs and the sad attempt to explain them.
As on of those Jamaican British Clapton talked about, I say kiss my azzz. My parents were in the late windrush generation and I know that the wealth the England squeezed out of the Caribbean and Africa was their price of admission. Racist bastard, he would not have a career if it was not for black musicians and their creativity.
What is your opinion Mr. Charles?
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@ eshowoman,
my opinion of Eric Clapton might seem a little off topic given that most people on here seem to believe he perceives himself as some superior entity to people of colour. I doubt it. As offensive as Clapton’s words were/are, if one read between the lines (we’ll have to be objective here, folks) we may see that the actual point of conflict related to culture more so than colour and nationality more so than race.
Sure, a racial dimension is evident but NOT dominant. Now I’m not attempting to excuse Clapton’s language or sentiments but he, like Carol Thatcher, was a child of an essentially all-white 1940s England. The 1960s and 70s changed all that forever. Clapton’s racially-tinged outspoken patriotism (depending on one’s point-of-view) was either that of a scoundrel in retreat or representative of a (white) nation undergoing painful social and economic change.
I guess one might compare it, in part, to how Black South Africans (so recently freed from racial apartheid) view and members of their own race coming from all parts of Africa (from Nigeria to Zimbabwe) but maybe that’s a little too nuanced for those who’d rather foam at the mouth than entertain an alternative possibility in their minds!
So anyway, Clapton is essentially a ‘little Englander’ who sees it as his right to invade, enslave and colonised “niggers” and “wogs” (and all so his people may have a better lifestyle) but low ‘n’ behold the same people should enter his country (originally at the bequest of one Enoch Powell!) for a better life doing the dirty would his kind were too lazy to do themselves!
Menelik Charles
London England
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Val:
Thank you for the Eric Clapton quote. I had heard about it but never read it. It was way worse than I thought it would be. Wow. I am surprised not so much that he believes stuff like that but that he said it publicly in no uncertain terms.
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I generally do not buy this “of the times” argument. But even if you grant it in the case of Carol Thatcher she made the Tsonga comment in 2009, not 1959. She has not been in a coma for 50 years. Ditto Mr Clapton.
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Eric Clapton made very rude comments, but in whole honesty it wasn’t just racist. He also made clear he hated all immigrants, so he’s not just racist but also a xenophobe.
@eshowoman
the name of the movie was West Beirut. It was a great movie but my enjoyment was really cut short by the slurs and the sad attempt to explain them.
Never heard of that movie, or the candy. Sadly, as with Clapton, it is once more shown that great artists and work of art have questionable morality.
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@J
1. With regard to countries without POC, what you find is that ‘they’ adopt the ‘stereotypes’ from Western media
Yes, they do. But without actual POC around, it’s not the same. For example, they can form a stereotype of a black man listening rap music and saying stuff like “yo yo, motha f…a!” even if he’s educated, but they won’t interpret it the same way. They won’t see blacks as a threat like western whites often see blacks and they would fail to see this stereotype as harmful. Which is, of course, harmful in its own way- but it’s different. Racism is different (I tend to call it “pre-contact” racism) which is in so many ways different than the racim in countries with POC.
2.With regard to the Black faces historically we have enough data to suggest it was an ‘offence’ and/or at the very least a form of ‘paternalism’. Like the servant boy that accompanied Whites throughout much of Europe, over the past 500 years.
I agree. I just said I suspected it was offensive in the same way or intensity. In the American culture, for example, the n word and blackface might be seen as the worst offences. In other cultures some other things are seen as more racist- so focusing on blackface might not be the best strategy, so to speak. It’s all about the context.
3. With regard to Othello, and maybe Agabond may wish to do a post on this. This play has aspects of racism within it, which has been largely documented within the literatureworld, even though many do not wish to admit it because it is the great William Shakespeare.
I gave an example of Othello because I assumed it’s a well known play that most of the countries decide to have in their theatres- and that’s also about a non-white character. It could be any play that involves non-white characters.
4. With regard to the word ‘negro’ for the ‘candy’. I do understand, I hope – but what I do not understand is why the Serbian word for ‘Black’ was not used instead??
I guess it sounded exotic and foreign. Companies here often do that. English is the most popular these days. It’s almost impossible to find a shop, a restaurant, small store, large store, anything- that doesn’t have an English name. Not to mention owners rarely opt to use Cyrillic alphabet. It’s our own form of self-hate I guess.
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One more thing: I’m not fixated on blackface per se; I used it as an example. It could be anything, really.
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Cheers Mira,
Maybe its just something living in London England., where in the field of employment. You are constantly ‘trained’ to deal with a variety of different people (races, culture religions etc) and to be ‘culturally sensitive’ to possible ‘cultural differences’, even if you have no idea what they are.
For instance even the way you ask an inocuous question with regard to ‘race’ can be that significant difference, on whether a question is perceived as ‘racist’ or not??
And this is what I meant about a society that has a POC population.
There Notwithstanding that there are many countries that have POC populations, but many of the Whites do not have a single POC as a friend, except for when they meet in the work environment.
And tying this into the issue of ‘candy’ and ‘negro’. It still does not quite explain the ‘process’ how the word ‘negro’ in the English language (as opposed to merely a colour in Spanish) became to be used in Serbia without connotation to race, when the word is ‘race specific’??
This is also another level at which racism can reside but I call it by my own personal term as ‘cultural insensitivity’
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@J
There Notwithstanding that there are many countries that have POC populations, but many of the Whites do not have a single POC as a friend, except for when they meet in the work environment.
Yes, that IS the major problem. People living in all white countries have their problems with racism, but it’s sad to learn that even in countries full of POC many whites don’t have any contact with them and remain clueless just like somebody
For example, when I say “skin colour underwear” I mean, of course, on something beige or light. To a person living in a 100% white country it is nothing strange to say this. But I do know for sure many whites in America, UK and other multiracial countries would say the same thing without a blink. It’s not racist per se, but shows the same level of ignorance.
And tying this into the issue of ‘candy’ and ‘negro’. It still does not quite explain the ‘process’ how the word ‘negro’ in the English language became to be used in Serbia without connotation to race, when the word is ‘race specific’??
This is the point, J. It is NOT race specific. To westerners, yes. But not in my culture.
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What I’m saying is, “negro” is just a word. it means “black” in one (well, two- or more, I’m not sure) languages. There’s nothing race specific about it, just like there’s nothing race specific in words pencil, chien (dog in French) or кућа (house in Serbian). It’s just a word. Historically, it became race specific in certain cultures, but not the others. Just because something has a certain connotation in the west, for example, doesn’t mean it has the same connotation all over the world. And yes, I know west often forget west is not “all the world” * but it’s not my problem.
* It’s not that it’s completely false to think like that, given the globalisation and everything. But full westernisation still didn’t occur and it probably never will, so it’s always safe to assume different cultures might have different cultural norms.
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I am sorry Mira, I do not understand. If you had siad it was derived from the Spanish speaking world. Then I would be able to understand.
Its like nowadays in England, people will say ‘you are ‘taking the mick’ (ie making a form of joke) without understanding the origins of how the term came about as a form of race derision against the Irish.
Again in a previous post, I highlighted the origin of the term ‘mumbo jumbo’ and even the term ‘fetish’.
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No, I never said it derived from the Spanish, I just said they used a Spanish word. And as far as I can tell, they didn’t use it in the same context, because the word is never used in connotation of chimney sweepers, which is the main point.
If they wanted to use it in a connotation of black people they would put an image of a black person or something. There’s no stigma about it in my culture (again, pre-contact racism) so nobody would think about putting a chimney sweeper instead of “Sambo” if that’s what they meant.
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Mira,
Just for clarification purposes,
The term Negro is derived from the Spanish or Portuguese…not including any possible Latin origin of the word.
My point is – WHY use the term at all??…Instead of one derived from the Serbian language, which one would presumably expect.
Unfortunately it appears as if you are unsure about the origins and how and when the term entered into Serbian culture
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My point is – WHY use the term at all??…Instead of one derived from the Serbian language, which one would presumably expect.
I told you. They used it randomly, because it sounded “exotic”. Just like today owners name their cosmetic stores “sensual” or caffe “nice” or another English word. Like I said it’s taken out of its original context and put in another just because owners thought it sounded “cool”. On a deeper level, it’s our self-hate presented.
Unfortunately it appears as if you are unsure about the origins and how and when the term entered into Serbian culture.
The term didn’t enter Serbian culture. One word was used just someone thought it sounded cool. It has no particular meaning or a connotation in my culture.
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Well, except the candy, that’s the first thin people think about when they hear the word.
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Cheers Mira,
What you say here raises other questions then.
1. If it is not part of Serbian culture but merely a word devised by an individual. Then it kind of carries us back to my point, regarding ‘cultural sensitivity’. What is meant by the use of the term ‘exotic’, because in the Western world that takes on an all different meaning, sometimes ‘good’, sometimes ‘bad’ and even sometimes paternalistic??
again…
2. Is only the candy seen as ‘negro’ but nothing else which is ‘Black’. Here I am referring strictly to products that are being bought and sold??
Either way I understand when you say it was used in Serbia in a ‘non-race’ manner, but I am still interested in the ‘how’ and ‘why’s’ behind the processes at work.
Unfortunately we do not have enough information before us here to understand how the word ‘negro’ was specifically applied to the ‘candy’.
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Dating black women doesn’t mean you’re not racist. Just ask Robert Lindsay.I wonder why Clapton would have dated Naomi Campbell; I wonder why she would have dated him:
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Mira, what you need to understand is that it’s not just a name.
Many of these images like the golliwog are based on Minstrel show portrayals of blacks in the U.S.
The fact that these countries copy the images w/o caring for the history behind the image is very ignorant. They copies racist behavior and promote this behavior, then complain that they’re not racist and that it’s cultural difference.
This is similar to the Alan B. character who was here a few posts ago arguing that “Jap” is not racist, and is acceptable in Australia.
I think it’s just an excuse to be rude and arrogant.
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Mira,
another thing, I don’t think the chocolate bar is offensive because it’s called negro. But, if it had a Minstrel show image on its wrapper like the Darkie toothpaste in Japan, then yes, it would be racist because the image and the history behind it is racist.
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Mira,
The Negro (“NAY-GROW”) is Hungary’s leading brand of hard candy and throat lozenge, and is among the country’s best known consumer products
http://www.chew.hu/negro.html
If the aforesaid is true, one finds the etymology of the surname as:
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Del%20Negro-name-meaning.ashx
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@J
No. Wait. Wait. I don’t know what to say. It seems to be the same candy- but Hungarian candy is from the 80s. Serbian is older, much older. But I do believe they were invented by Hungarians living in Serbia (there is a significant Hungarian minority in northern Serbia). Still, I had no idea they are seen as a Hungarian brand- I am sure Yugoslavians (and later Serbians) were the ones labeled racist for this candy, not Hungarians. For good or bad, this is a Serbian (well, to be more precise, Yugoslavian) candy.
Speaking of which:
So I am sad to see this candy was, indeed, used in racist context.
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@J
1. If it is not part of Serbian culture but merely a word devised by an individual. Then it kind of carries us back to my point, regarding ‘cultural sensitivity’. What is meant by the use of the term ‘exotic’, because in the Western world that takes on an all different meaning, sometimes ‘good’, sometimes ‘bad’ and even sometimes paternalistic??
I meant on exoticizing in any possible way. It’s usually not a good thing, exoticizing. But exoticizing doesn’t equal racial exoticizing. It is possible to exoticize a culture that is of the same race as yours.
Either way I understand when you say it was used in Serbia in a ‘non-race’ manner, but I am still interested in the ‘how’ and ‘why’s’ behind the processes at work.
I always assumed the word is used because candy itself was of black colour.
@Mel
Mira, what you need to understand is that it’s not just a name.
Many of these images like the golliwog are based on Minstrel show portrayals of blacks in the U.S.
What are you referring to? Golliwog or Negro candy?
I know it’s never “just a name” or “no big deal” when it comes to racial insensitivity. I wasn’t trying to say it’s not a big deal and we should all forget about it. No way. It IS a big deal. I just wanted to point out using your own cultural standards to judge other people’s culture is not the best thing.
The fact that these countries copy the images w/o caring for the history behind the image is very ignorant. They copies racist behavior and promote this behavior, then complain that they’re not racist and that it’s cultural difference.
What are you talking about now? Golliwog or Negro candy? If it is about the candy I must repeat it’s not copied from anywhere, it is simply given a name that is insulting in another culture. But generally I agree- copying racist images even without understanding is bad, because that’s an easy way to form stereotypes. You can live in a whole white country but with every mainstream American movie, for example, you are bombarded with racist images. You might not understand the context or see they’re racist, but they are there and they form your views. With no black and other POC around, you are unable to challenge that view. That is one of the forms of pre-contact racism.
another thing, I don’t think the chocolate bar is offensive because it’s called negro. But, if it had a Minstrel show image on its wrapper like the Darkie toothpaste in Japan, then yes, it would be racist because the image and the history behind it is racist.
Yes, I agree. I wrote that in one of my replies to J. If it had a minstrel show or some other form of racist image it would be racist no doubt. But it doesn’t have a racist wrapper- and if it were connected to Africa or black people in any way, they would put it on the wrapper. PC doesn’t exist here and it certainly didn’t exist back then so if they wanted the candy to have a black or African context they would make that obvious.
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@abagond
And he’s never apologized.
@Mel
“I wonder why Clapton would have dated Naomi Campbell”
Really? Many a slave owner crept in the night. It’s pretty easy to figure why he dated her. Now why she dated him is the real question.
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its never stops…
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The Golliwog looks like the advertising mascot for a package of “Negritos” crisps….
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In a way, I’m glad Thatcher never apologized. It’s easy to say, “I’m sorry” without meaning one word of it. I’d be more insulted if she did issue an apology, as it would only be a cover-my-arse gesture – much like the one the Harvard law student issued after her e-mail made news.
What can I say. I prefer my racists easy to spot, and it’s far easier when they own up to their beliefs instead of pandering wafer-thin mea culpas.
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OMG, my son watches Noddy’s cartoon on pbs-sprout channel, he drives that same car and everything. Ahh well that’s the end of that!
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Classyshonna,
From what I can remember in the UK, not sure about USA, the ‘powers that be’ made Noddy ‘politically correct’. So there should not be any racist imagery, in animation or book form today. Though I cannot say subliminally off course, with regard to the animation.
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Noddy on American television does not have any golliwogs according to my sister, whose son used to watch it. She said one of them was replaced by a doll of a black girl.
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[…] golliwog […]
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LONG LIVE THE GOLLYWOG……GET OVER IT PEOPLE ! ! !
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AND BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL NODDY….JUST CAN’T BEAT THAT LITTLE GUY
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As ALWAYS, Abagond, thank you for heightening our consciousness. Golliwogs, be gone!
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Be stopping kids eating dark chocolate next
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I find this thread absolutely disgusting, and probably not for the same reason most of you do. Most of you find it disgusting because you disapprove of the intelligent, enlightened attitudes of people you condemn as ‘racist’ and ‘hateful’; I, on the other hand, find disgusting the amount of hypocrisy spouted by the TRAITORS on this thread who seem to think it is right to sell out great nations to foreign invaders!
Can you, any of you, who claim righteous indignation, even see what I can see in these posts and comments? Take a look for yourselves:
Agatha Christie has been dead for decades and she is still selling books she wrote something like a century ago (I don’t know precisely when but I know she goes back a long way), and there are even TV adaptations of things like ‘Marple’ and ‘Poirot’ still being produced and broadcast.
Almost as much can be said of Enid Blyton, whose ‘Noddy’ books have been televised both in the 1960s and 1990s and also still sell, along with such others as the ‘Famous Five’ and ‘Secret Seven’ series.
Eric Clapton is a talented musician and writer with a string of hits behind him, multi-million selling records, awards and a fortune. He’s considered by some to be one of the greatest musicians of modern times and is certainly a very successful individual.
See the pattern here? Racism being associated with gifted, insightful geniuses. This tells me (and should tell you) that racial prejudice, far from being an example of ignornace, is clearly a side effect of having a brilliant mind!
You fucking tell the bastards, Eric mate!
WOGS OUT!
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I collect Gollys and other Golly related memorabilia. It is a wee bit sad that some people find these little people racist but to me they are just a little black doll like Amelia Jane was just a white doll. Thank you for sharing this post and sharing some interesting tidbits on their humble beginnings. Best wishes from here in NZ!
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Oops I forgot to mention this… One day I took two of my Gollys to work (I work for a school) and we were talking about Hobbies and Interests. As I collect Gollys I thought I would bring along two that sit on my bed. My favourite kid looked at these two and asked very nicely “Why are they black?” and I turned to him and asked him “Why is he blue?” in reference to his Grover he brought along. I then explained to the children that we are a multicultural society, that we can be black, white, fat, thin etc… It really doesnt matter and we should respect differences regardless of what we look like. A world that is the same would be rather boring otherwise.
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I remember reading how a fan sent Janet Jackson one. Jackson took a picture of this and the caption read, “This is Maria, she’s very lifelike” How does it make you feel?” I thought it was sick. I didn’t know what they were called. I googled it and found out this was the name of this little ugly doll. It made me very angry. I had asked several times for you to do a post on this, and you never answered me back. I found this post by accident. This just goes to show you the ugly heart of some whites. In this case white Brits. I was surprised to learn Agatha Christie’s book, “Ten Little Indians, was originally “Ten Little N-words” But i guess i shouldn’t be surprised at this sort of racism, seeing how the British were evil colonialist. I always wanted a post on this and lo and behold i find this by accident. This is just so ugly.
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The ugly racist hearts of some whites. They would come up with something so ugly. And to think this was a toy for children. This is just hideous and vile.
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Didn’t know much about Margaret Thatcher, but these comment post are very insightful. I am not surprised that she didn’t care for people of color.
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It makes me sad to hear Eric Clapton is a racist even though he dated Naomi Campbell and he admires the work of black blues men. And to learn CCR had used this pejorative once as the name of their band. And Tom Petty and the confederate flag. Just shaking my head.
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