Commenter Peanut on real reasons some black women prefer not to date some white men (based on her own experience):
- It is difficult for many white men to see black women as individuals, even when they prefer to date black women. Example: expecting all black women to be able to dance.
- Some white people tend to view the attractive, classy and intelligent black women they encounter as exceptions and exempt from being “regular black” by virtue of the fact that they do not conform to negative black female stereotypes. Example: being called white girl in a black girl’s body, a chocolate-dipped white girl.
- Some white people forget that you are black and will say stuff without thinking in front of you. Too many examples to recount.
- Referring to black people who do not conform to mainstream (white society’s) expectations as “ghetto”.
- Attributing bad behaviour on the part of the individual as a black attribute. Or racializing behaviour that has nothing to do with race.
- Some white men think they are doing black women a favour by dating and or mating them. Since black women are perceived supposedly as being on the bottom of the beauty hierarchy. This is especially true of older white men who married white, had white children, divorced and now approach young, young black women.
- Some white men who date black women think they are officially an authority or expert on black people overall by virtue of the fact that their girlfriend or wife is black.
- Some white men expect you to mindlessly agree with them about issues pertaining to politics and race, like affirmative action. When you disagree, however gently and politely, you are seen as combative or you hurt their feelings or alienate them.
- The Bodyguard Complex: Some white men feel as if it is their job to “save” the black woman from the “wretchedness” of the black community.
- White men who date black women as a way to rationalize away their own racism. Some white men think that because they date or end up with a black women that they are exempt from racist thoughts. Hence the classic phrase, “I’m not racist, I dated a black girl in high school.”
I do not condemn white men who have these thoughts. White American culture has a history of brainwashing both blacks and whites to believe certains notions and stereotypes. But there is always going to be that awkward moment where you realize how our two cultures have really been created in opposition to each other.
Overall, if you are a black women who prefers to date white men or other non-black men, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you are a black women who prefers black men, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you do not care, more power to you. That is my take on it.
See also:
- Siditty: How to Get Black Women
- Why so few white men marry black women part II – this post grew out of comments on this post
- Stuff White Men Say to Black Women
- race and dating
- More on some of the racist errors given above:
It’s about time. Most Black women prefer Black men. But because of the legacy of slavery and jim crow, along with current racism and segregation, Black women in general are leery of White men and for good reason as stated by peanut above.
La Reyna
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No disrespect but how many damn posts on the state of “black women and white men relations” are there going to be?!?! 🙂
Most black women aren’t thinking about white men. And vice versa.
Let’s not beat a dead horse. Especially with a topic that’s almost a non-issue.
How about a post that many of us can benefit from like giving solutions to “colorism” or even a guide to healthy eating, even.
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I think attraction could be added to that list(obviously). In my experience whites tend to view themselves as universally attractive.Maybe not attractive as individuals but as a group. And when they meet a person of color who doesn’t view whites in the same light they get angry.
Reminds of an Octavia E Butler book. A white man gets pissed when the free Black woman he wanted chose a Black slave over him.
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This a great list.
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Actually, I’m not tired of the topic.
Thanks for the new post, Abagond.
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How can they not? It’s so deeply reinforced by the mass media they can’t help it. Most non-white men also prefer lighter-skinned women for the same reason. The indoctrination starts at a very young age with fairly tells such as Snow White. Little blacks girls are being read stories about princesses with very white skin then we wonder why black girls pick white dolls in the doll experiment. I’m starting to wonder if it’s even possible for black people to live in a majority white country/media and have a healthy self-image without it being a constant struggle.
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My above statement was in response to Fro’s comment about whites finding themselves attractive as a group. For some reason the blockquote didn’t work this time.
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“I’m starting to wonder if it’s even possible for black people to live in a majority white country/media and have a healthy self-image without it being a constant struggle.”
its hard, i was brainwashed myself and you know what probably still am to an extent.
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I hear you, peanut. Btw, thanks for this post. I’m going down this list and it’s spot on.
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The part about creepy old white men needs to be in bold. It absolutely blows my mind why a man probably twice my age could even think for a second I would be at all interested. Mind you, I’ve noticed this seems to be a universal trend when it comes to women of any colour and old white men. White people really do believe they are the epitome of what is beautiful.
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yeah i agree blackkittenroar. Has anyone ever noticed that black women are damn near NEVER in any self-defense or alarm commercials? Why is this, aren’t we more likely to be victimized supposedly than anyone else?
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@Peanut
I know, right. But the world seems to view Black women as being able to take care of themselves. If anything we are probably one of the most vulnerable groups. I knew from about age 10 on to watch out for unwanted attention from creepy older white men. What gets me though, is this victim role white women like to play. I was waiting at a bus stop coming home from work one night with 2 other white females. The one was proclaiming to the other how “dangerous” it was for a “little white girl” like herself to be walking home late at night through what is perceived to be a “Black” neighbourhood (even though it isn’t, it actually has a higher number of Vietnamese immigrants). It just completely blew my mind, because Black people aren’t stupid, we know if we attack a white person its going to spell trouble.
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Btw, I love that pic of Thelma, she looks so elegant and graceful. A classic beauty.
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I would date a white man that one came along who saw me for me and was nice and attractive. but most white guys i come across don’t seem to see me as dating material, I am university educateed, well spoken mixed race but i’m just not white enough for most of them and then there is the cringy ones that want to try out a black woman for one thing only. black men haven’t always been respectful of me but they tend to see or acknowledge the beauty in me more and when they meet me try to get know me, not just approach me for sex in a club like most white men i come across.
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yes so a thing another thing you could mention is that there are white men who just see black women as something they want to try out, you know for the ride or as a fetish thing.
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@BLACKkittenROAR:
Definitely. These downright unattractive, old white guys think they can approach you and you’re supposed to be flattered even honored to be with them. *shudders*
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It absolutely blows my mind why a man probably twice my age could even think for a second I would be at all interested.
Wow. Ageism rears it’s ugly head.
Flip the genders and colors around on that statement, Blackkitten, and see how it reads.
And here’s something for you to think about while you ponder that…
Given the way sexism works and speaking in general terms, men – whatever their color – are going to be considered attractive longer than women. So you might want to rethink your ageism a bit. After all, you’re going to have to deal with the consequences of it for much longer than most men.
It amazes me that at 42 – and with a body certainly not buff – I still catch flirty looks all the time. Meanwhile, most of my female friends of my age have to struggle to get any male attention at all. This is sexist as the day is long and it makes me think that no intelligent woman who really ponders the situation should want to be making statements about “ugly old people”.
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Thad,
Ageism is no better than any other ‘ism, but I think that your logic may be outdated. I know plenty of women who are 42+ who get PLENTY of male attention and it seems that younger guys, more than ever before are starting to date women older than them.
There are a lot of Stacy Dashes’ out here now a days. I just hope to be one of them someday.
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Melissa sez…
“…then there is the cringy ones that want to try out a black woman for one thing only”
Melissa, I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating as you obviously don’t understand gender dynamics.
Almost ALL men, whatever their color, are asking you out initially because “they want one thing only”. I have never, in my life, met a het guy who said “Gee, I’m gonna ask that woman out because I really think she’s relationship material”. Such men might exist, but I’ve never met them.
Male sexuality tends to work the following way: if the sex is good AND the companionship is good, then we start thinking that maybe we should formalize this thing and have a relationship.
Now, when it comes to companionship, given a choice between hanging out with you or hanging out with his male friends, 90% of het guys are going to choose their buddies. I happen to be in the 10% that WOULDN’T, but then again, that means I’m not a very “masculine” guy, so guys like me are probably not on most women’s “to do” list anyhow.
So, he’s not going out with you because he wants a relationship, Melissa and he’s not going out with you because he needs a buddy.
Tell me, Melissa: WHY do you think he’s going out with you?
I think you’re going to have a very hard time in this day and age to get any man, regardless of color, to think about relationships before he’s had sex with you. I’d say the vast majority of men who make you think that they are thinking of something else are in fact playing you.
So what, exactly, is the difference between white men and black men on this point? Either white guys are worse liars than black guys when it comes to talking to black women (which could be the case) or you’re fooling yourself, Melissa.
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“I know plenty of women who are 42+ who get PLENTY of male attention and it seems that younger guys, more than ever before are starting to date women older than them.”
You may know plenty and – hopefully – things may be trending in that direction. It is in no way, shape or form the norm, however, IG, and it’s wishful thinking to imply that it is.
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Also, a lot more black women are open to the ideal of dating outside, and there is nothing wrong with that. The more options that you have, the more you will be respected and appreciated.
Why limit anything?
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BtW, IG, here’s the truth: most men still don’t need to be Stacey Dashes to be getting female attention at 42. Nor do they need to do tummy lifts or breast implants or botox treatments.
Yes, I agree that this is changing and more men are worried about their looks and more mature women are considered beautiful. It is nowhere near equal yet, however, and I don’t expect it to be in my lifetime.
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Why limit anything?
I agree most heartily.
My wife is black, Brazilian and a woman. Culturally and in terms of ethics, we have more in common with each other than I have ever had with any other person.
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I think this subject is important, even if interracial relationships make only 1% of all relationships. Hey, because interracial relationships are so rare, we should talk about it.
While they’re not the most precise tool, interracial relationships- or lack thereof- can help us understand our society better.
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yes to be honest most men in general initially want women for sex. i’m not a prude i just don’t like one night stands and prefer to get to know a man somewheat before sleeping with them.
In my experiene though black men tend to ask you out on dates and put in more effort to get to know you whereas white men i’ve met just want sex on a plate and seem to want to get with no effort.
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accidently posted that unfinished: carrying on maybe i’m just speculating that white men see black women more as sex objects than black men. I have white friends that also say they find it hard to find white men or men in general that want more than sex so maybe that is just a man thing. so what are you saying exactly ‘thad’ that to make men happy i should understand that they want sex without putting in any effort to get to know me, sorry but i’m not that easy in most rational sober cases.
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Here’s another thought for you ladies, coming from my own experience…
If you DO find a nice white guy who’s at least marginally aware of race and racism, he’s probably not going to make a move on you because he’s afraid he’ll insult you if he does. You’re going to have to make the first move and it’s going to have to be open and obvious – not a little flirt or something similar.
Speaking as a white guy who’s had a lot of black women friends, many of whom I thought very attractive, I am VERY leary about following up on what I perceive as flirts coming black women for all the reasons people list above. I’d rather preserve my friendships than risk them in a possible chance for a sexual/love relationship, so I would certainly not follow through on anything other than a real blatant “come ahead” from a black woman.
In fact, if Ana Paula hadn’t made the first move in our relationship, I doubt we would have ever gotten together.
So you better make the first move, then, right?
Hold on.
The problem with this is that if the guy in question is NOT as aware as you thought, you’ve just reinforced the Jezebel stereotype and he’s thinking “Oh HO! She wants it! I guess what they say about black women is true! Cool! Free pu$$y! I am such a stud, vene the black girls want me…”
So it’s a bit of a Catch 22, innit?
In my and Ana’s case, it probably helped alot that we were both comparative race scholars who shared the same classrooms and conference circuits for years before we got together. We thus had ample opportunity to shoot the BS over beer regarding our views on race, racism and history, so at least that aspect of the relationship wasn’t an unkown.
But even so, if Ana hadn’t made the first move, I doubt I would have.
I guess what I’ll say to my daughter (and Ana convinced me on this one) is:
“Be a slut. So what? If you were a man, no one would worry about you ‘reinforcing the black stud’ stereotype if you made a move on a white person. Scre w who you want and if they are jerks, dump them and move on. Life is too short for you to worry about what other people think about your choices. If you’re a woman, chances are that being proactive is the only way you’re going to find a decent relationship anyhow.”
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so what are you saying exactly ‘thad’ that to make men happy i should understand that they want sex without putting in any effort to get to know me, sorry but i’m not that easy in most rational sober cases.
No, I’d say be realistic. I’d say that you should realize that the vast majority of men AREN’T going to think about relationships before there’s been a bit of sex under the bridge. And that sex is no guarantee. He may – as the saying goes – “not be that into you”.
The whole concept of “easy” is incredibly sexist. What you need to do is approach sex with an eye to what YOU want out of it, in simple terms, not what you think you can achieve with it and CERTAINLY not worrying about what he thinks about it.
HE should be greatful that you had sex with him. It should make him feel better about you as a person. If it doesn’t, he’s a jerk: dump him.
So I’d say you need to get your head straight about sex and what it means to you and dump these notions about “easy” and other like crapola. Once you’ve done that, you can detach the whole sex thing from the relationship thing and see them as the two separate – though intertwined – entities that they are.
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yes i realise sex doesn’t equals a relationship. i’ve been hearing through the grape vine though that some guys respect girls more if they wait a month or in some cases longer to sleep with them. I find that notion sexist because lets face it i bet those guys would be happier to have sex earlier if the girl was ok with that.
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Let’s put it this way:
I have never met an 80 year old – male, female, black, white, or whatever – who, in looking back on their life, said: “Gee, you know what? I shouldn’t have had sex with so many different people.”
So much for what the Church and common prejudice tells us.
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i’ve been hearing through the grape vine though that some guys respect girls more if they wait a month or in some cases longer to sleep with them.
You’ve been hearing wrong.
There IS NO FORMULA, though Cosmopolitan and Oprah and the like makes millions trying to convince women that there is.
I, for one, have probably QUIT blooming relationships with more women because they were being stupid about sex. And I’m not saying “Hey, sex on the first date or GTFO!” here. Let me give you an example…
A friend and I were flirting several years back. I liked her, thought she was cute and smart. We had gone out in groups a couple of times, knew each other for over two years. Then one day we hang out alone together all afternoon and into the evening. See a movie. Have dinner. Talk our ears off. We start drinking and pretty soon we’re making out. I ask her to a motel (common here in Brazil) and she demurs. Not because of any good reason, just because… Well… “I really, really want to, but I don’t like getting into sex so early in a relationship.”
Now stop a second and think about how that sounds. Relationship? Who the hell is thinking relationship at this point? Woman, I’m 35 and you’re 32, with a kid from a prior marriage. We’re both f$%ïng adults, ferchrisakes. Let’s assume we both have real life issues that could put the quash on any relationship before it starts and those issues are going to have to be worked out if there’s hope for anything here. Sex – or lack of it – isn’t going to matter with regards to those issues.
Now, what does ANY of that have to do with having a friendly screw where we’ll both have a good time and getg to know each other more intimately, see if there’s anything else there?
Speaking as a guy, I lost what respect I had for her when she said that. If she had said “Hell, I’m not up for sex today. Maybe another time,” cool. If she said, “I need to get home to my kid. Why don’t you come over for lunch on Saturday when he’s with his dad and we’ll see what we see?” cool. If she had said “I want sex, but I’m not going to do it because that could lead to a relationship and I have enough on my plate as it is”, cool. But playing the blushing virgin at 32 and a single mom, especially when she said she wants it and it’s pretty obvious that she does?
That rang all my alarm bells. That said to me “Here is a lady who believes that the problems in her life can be solved with a relationship and who believes that her p#$%y is some sort of endangered species or scarce resource. She is not seriously into me: she’s into what I could REPRESENT for her little idealized dream of conjugal life.”
I submit to you that this is the picture of a woman who took that “don’t have sex with him or he won’t respect you” crap seriously and it is not a pretty picture. I never went out with her again and, AFAIK, she’s still single.
The position that a guy doesn’t respect you if you have sex early with him is illogical. If it’s true, then that guy has real serious issues with regards to women and sexuality and why in the hell would you want a relationship with someone like that? If not true, as it wasn’t in my case, you’ve just signalled to the guy that you’re REALLY with him because you want a relationship and that your particular vibe or whatever with him isn’t as important as some little idealized checklist you’re knocking off in your head.
The first guy is going to write you down in his little black book, play along until he gets some and then ditch you without remorse if he doesn’t like what he sees. If he DOES like what he sees, he’ll expect you to be the blushing family girl with the p@#$%y of gold for the rest of your days together.
The second guy will think that you’re either a clueless ingenue or a woman with a real heavy agenda. Either way, odds are you’ll never see him again, which is a pity because he was at least being honest with YOU.
Which is what you women say you want, right? 😀
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7.Some white men who date black women think they are officially an authority or expert on black people overall by virtue of the fact that their girlfriend or wife is black.
I hate this. Just because you have a black girlfriend does not mean you know more about black people than black people themselves.
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Sure. And yet most of the black people posting here believe that they are authorities on white people, neh? 😀
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leigh204
@BLACKkittenROAR:
The part about creepy old white men needs to be in bold. It absolutely blows my mind why a man probably twice my age could even think for a second I would be at all interested. Mind you, I’ve noticed this seems to be a universal trend when it comes to women of any colour and old white men. White people really do believe they are the epitome of what is beautiful.
Definitely. These downright unattractive, old white guys think they can approach you and you’re supposed to be flattered even honored to be with them. *shudders*
This is so true, these old geezers feel that just because they are white, young (non white) women should be happy to have them. In their younger days they probaly never though about dating a black woman. These old elderly men that prey on young women of color are just pathetic.
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Those old geezers feel that way about ANY young woman, irregardless of melanin content.
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Thad
Sure. And yet most of the black people posting here believe that they are authorities on white people, neh?
My comment was not addressed to you. I guess you must be guilty.
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Thad,
“It amazes me that at 42 – and with a body certainly not buff – I still catch flirty looks all the time. Meanwhile, most of my female friends of my age have to struggle to get any male attention at all.”
Well, you have women to thank for that. It is not that men of that age look any better, it is that a lot of women are not as superficial as men, so SOME tend to look past physical.
However; that too is changing. Women ‘have their own’ now and don’t need men to support them. Their independence allows them to look for the total package. That’s fine if that is what they choose.
That being said, there should be no difference then if an older white man approaches or a man of any other race. What’s the difference? If that is something that bothers younger women.
Also, I hate when white men put black women into a category and assume all black women fit that. I don’t how many times I’ve heard, “I like black women because they have the best butts.” That is disgusting, imo.
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Sure and well, Leaveum. But since when do I exclusively respond to comments that are adressed to me? I stand by my point: dirty old men are dirty old men, melanin regardless.
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Also, I hate when white men put black women into a category and assume all black women fit that. I don’t how many times I’ve heard, “I like black women because they have the best butts.” That is disgusting, im
I agree! Black women are more than just butts. I hate when any man of any race reduce black women to butts.
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@Thad
Oh please, ageism…really? that’s your charge? To be entirely honest, if its an older BLACK man, I more than likely will appreciate the attention, but with older white men there is something completely different going on. For the record, I never used the word ugly. By saying whites believe they are the epitome of attractiveness, I’m not saying they are ugly, just not the perfection many believe themselves to be when it comes to beauty.
Older white men come off very arrogantly anytime they’ve approached me. Its almost like they believe they are doing me a favour by talking to me, or that I somehow owe them something. There’s this white man who comes into my work regularly who actually asked me to come home and cook for him the first time I met him. He behaves the same way an Indo-Caribbean girl in another department (we now both hide from him when we see him because he makes us both so uncomfortable). Why, as a young woman of colour should I have to settle for a man who is not interested in a balanced in equal relationship with me, but instead really wants a servant? I don’t want to be with someone who is only interested because they have some sort of fetish!
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IG sez:
Well, you have women to thank for that. It is not that men of that age look any better, it is that a lot of women are not as superficial as men, so SOME tend to look past physical.
QUAQUAQUAQUAQUAQUAQUAQUAhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh…
Ahn, excuse me while I wipe my eyes and pull myself off the floor, IG. Yes indeed, you women are so good when it comes to grasping men’s inner selves. 😀 😀 😀 😀
Now let’s put the silliness aside, shall we? In the traditional world of sexist values, IG, women are willing to go with older, uglier guys because women are traditionally taught to see men as SUCCESS objects, not sex objects. And who are the guys in any given group who tend to have the most cash and success? Older guys.
This is the root of it, IG, and not women’s presumed relative emotional maturity.
However; that too is changing. Women ‘have their own’ now and don’t need men to support them. Their independence allows them to look for the total package.
True enough, but doesn’t it strike you that looking at people as if they were “packages” to be consumed is a wee bit… I dunno… Objectifying? I very much doubt women are going to have much better luck with this than man have traditionally had.
The secret, ladies, is not to look for Prince Charming. He doesn’t exist. There are, however, plenty of presentable frogs out there just waiting to be kissed. 😀
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I disagree. I see this as a cop out on your part for not really wanting to deal with race, and both the blatant and more nuanced roles it can play in IR relationships.
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To be entirely honest, if its an older BLACK man, I more than likely will appreciate the attention, but with older white men there is something completely different going on.
Dream on, Cousin. The EXACT same thing is going on in both cases.
Now, where I can see racism rearing it’s little alien-shaped head is in the following…
Because of racist views regarding the Jezebel stereotype, I am quite sure that more white men than black men think black women are little sex kittens and, thinking that, probably feel that there’s less reason to hide their motives in teying to chat one up. THAT is feasible to me.
But you are SERIOUSLY fooling yourself when you make comments along the lines of “different from black men, white men only think of sex when they look at black women”. But hell, if you want to fool yourself about men, go right ahead, BlackKitten.
Why, as a young woman of colour should I have to settle for a man who is not interested in a balanced in equal relationship with me, but instead really wants a servant?
The question is why any woman, independent of color, would do that? Because that sort of relationship is TRADITIONAL in the west for all women, black or white. If white guys expect that from a black woman, again, I think it’s a case of them not hiding their presumptions as well as black guys do. THAT is the racism, not the attitude. The attitude is sadly common to men across the board.
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I disagree. I see this as a cop out on your part for not really wanting to deal with race, and both the blatant and more nuanced roles it can play in IR relationships.
Read my comments better, Kitten. I very much believe there’s a race component and have pointed that out a couple of times now.
What I DO NOT believe is that the component works the way you think it does.
You seem to think that white men treating black women in the ways you describe is a white thing. I think it is a male thing. Where race comes in is that the white guys don’t feel that they have to cammoflage their intentions when it comes to dealing with black women.
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It’s too damned hot to do any serious work in Rio today.
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@Thad
You seem to be missing the point of the entire post, and that is that there are reasons Black women hesitate to get into IR relationships with white men, and instead hurry to dismiss the Black female experience.
Racism and sexism intersect in more ways than you seem to be willing to admit. You seem to be confusing things other commenters have said with what I am saying. You’re also completely ruling out my lived experience which I do not appreciate at all. I am well aware that patriarchy is used to oppress Black women by more than just white men, but to make the claim that sexism erases racism is dismissive, and derailing.
As a white man, you may not necessarily be guilty of such charges, but to claim racism never rears its ugly head in IR relationships, or to limit your belief in how it works when you’re not on the receiving end is just plain ignorant. If you want to play that card, go right ahead but I’m not getting into any more silly arguments with someone who is being willfully ignorant.
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No BKR, I GOT that point. Given the long digression I gave above regarding black/white relationships, the fact that I got it should be obvious. I mean, presuming you’re actually reading what I’m writing.
What I am dismissing isn’t the idea that there are race issues at stake here: what I’m dismissing is the idea that black men, when they ask black women on dates, are thinking about something different than white men.
That is my point.
As for “dismissing” or “ruling out lived experience”, sorry, I don’t subscribe to the viewpoint that everyone’s ideas are equally correct. If I disagree with something, I’ll say I do and I’ll say why. THAT, to me, is the basis of a decent dialogue.
But it’s interesting that you’re so sensitive about others misreading your ideas and yet you seem to believe that I’m saying “sexism erases racism”, which is not at all what I’m saying.
It’s damned clear to me that you haven’t read a word of what I’ve written, BKR and that you’re debating with some sort of strawman you’ve built in your head.
An odd position for you to be in, don’t you think? I mean, you being the woman who thinks it’s bad to dismiss others’ ideas and lived experiences and all… 😀
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Here’s a case in point, BKR. I wrote the following…
“Where I can see racism rearing it’s little alien-shaped head is in the following…
Because of racist views regarding the Jezebel stereotype, I am quite sure that more white men than black men think black women are little sex kittens and, thinking that, probably feel that there’s less reason to hide their motives in teying to chat one up. THAT is feasible to me.”
Your response to this?
To claim racism never rears its ugly head in IR relationships, or to limit your belief in how it works when you’re not on the receiving end is just plain ignorant.
Hell, you even used the metaphor I used and yet completely missed the point! Who’s saying “racism doesn’t exist” in this?
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@Thad
As we all know, I am white and female, and yet, I do understand there is a mechanism behind old white man/ young black woman issue. It’s simply isn’t the same with old white men and young white girls.
Obviously there are a lot of older white men who are interested in “sexy Jezabel kittens”. Some of them want kittens to be black, some of them don’t care. However, it does make a difference if you are a white or a black girl. It’s simply not the same. Especially given the fact that there are some (many?) white men who DO approach black women as if they’re doing some favor to them. Yes, there are still some white men who simply can’t understand that black woman would not want them, for whatever reason. Yes, there are men who generally approach women expecting them to feel happy that he is even interested. However, when a white man does that to a black woman, especially one who is young enough to be his daughter- one must question his intentions beyond the general “ageism”.
Does reverse situation exist, btw? (Older) black men chasing white girls?
Other issue: sex. If there is a negative stereotype about your group about being “slutty”, of course you will be more careful. Jezabel stereotype makes black women more careful than white women. And slutty stereotype (sexually promiscuous woman) does make women in general more careful than men when it comes to sex. There ARE many men who simply wouldn’t ever, ever respect a woman who approaches the sex the same way they do. They are happy if a girl wants to have sex, but when they do it, he disrespects her for doing the exact same thing as him (and doing it WITH him). This is simply the way this “game” works.
Now. Here’s the thing. Many of those guys aren’t bad human beings. They’re just raised that way. Some of them might be dating/relationship material. So the woman waits until she feels she is respected. Yes, she knows he wants sex, but she also knows he won’t respect her if they do it after only one date.
This all makes sense, right?
Well, right for many women, but not for me. You see, I never wanted to be with a man who doesn’t respect women. I never wanted to be with a man who would call women “sluts” just because they are having sex on (insert number)th date. Even if I earned his respect by refusing to have sex with him, why would I want to be with such a man?
So, in a way, I do agree with what you said about sex. I don’t think women should wait if they don’t want to. If nothing else, having sex early in the relationship can show you if the guy is a good one- if he stays, it means he might be worth your attention; if he leaves- well, it’s better to know what kind of person he is right away.
But let’s be realistic. There is a really, really low percentage of men who would respect a woman if she had sex with them on a first date. Or even second. Or third. I am not really into Cosmo, but yes, most of the men (I’d say around 95%-98%) would not respect a woman if she initiate/agrees on sex too early. Period. End of story.
And some of those men are good men, quality men. So most of the women don’t want to take the risk and ruin everything before it even started.
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“The one was proclaiming to the other how “dangerous” it was for a “little white girl” like herself to be walking home late at night through what is perceived to be a “Black” neighbourhood (even though it isn’t, it actually has a higher number of Vietnamese immigrants). It just completely blew my mind, because Black people aren’t stupid, we know if we attack a white person its going to spell trouble.”
Response:
i witnessed the exact same thing. One time I took the bus from my apartment to go grocery shopping at my college. the mall/grocery store was in a predominately black area. Not a bad area at all, it was safe, but predominately black. While I was there waiting for the bus to take me back to my apartment, I saw these two girls from the my college and they were waiting cuz our bus was running late.
They kept saying stuff like “this is the type of place where I would need to put one of those locks on my car. This place is dangerous.”
Things like that and I remember thinking, umm…there are women with little children around. There’s no one robbing the place, no sketchy characters around. I guess just by virtue of the fact that this is a mostly black area, its dangerous…Then when our bus came they gleefully shouted… “*gasp* our BUS IS HERE!” And then ran to it like they were being being rescued from some desolate, nightmarish place!
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““Gee, you know what? I shouldn’t have had sex with so many different people.”
So much for what the Church and common prejudice tells us.”
Response:
I beg to differ. It may suck to never have a date but it beats the heck out of getting syphilis or herpes. I’m not giving it up that easy and men shouldn’t either. WHat’s the point, you orgasm and then life goes on. Why have sex w/ someone who I don’t love and who I’m not sure loves me? No point, unless I just want to get pregnant right then and there.
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*hopefully your orgasm lol, that’s not a guarentee either…*
There are plenty things in my opinion that are probably more rewarding and fufilling than sharing sex with some random dude. I’m more interested in those.
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I totally disagree that all men care about initially is sex when meeting someone. Maybe they find that person interested and want to get to know them first. That’s the case in my experience.
There are some nice guys in the world – no matter what the color.
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Mira sez:
As we all know, I am white and female, and yet, I do understand there is a mechanism behind old white man/ young black woman issue. It’s simply isn’t the same with old white men and young white girls.
Sigh.
Ever get one of those days when you say “apples” and everyone screams oranges?
One of those days when you dispair of people even understanding simple words like “yes” and “no”?
I’m having one of those days right now.
Mira, where did I say there was no mechanism? The mechanism is these old farts’ view that, since black women “really want it”, they don’t have to cover up their intentions. THAT is the mechanism. The mechanism is NOT “white guys only want black women for one thing and black guys don’t”.
Does reverse situation exist, btw? (Older) black men chasing white girls?
Seen it many times. Generally, they’re not as aggressive or stupid-acting as the white guys.
If there is a negative stereotype about your group about being “slutty”, of course you will be more careful.
Why? Why should you care? Black men are stereotyped as studs and I don’t see them worrying twice about that when they’re trying to pull Wendy Whitebread.
Why should you, as a woman, care?
There ARE many men who simply wouldn’t ever, ever respect a woman who approaches the sex the same way they do.
Agreed. But WHY would you want a relationship with a guy like that? Let’s face it: that’s what the “wait and he’ll respect you more” school of thought is on about, isn’t it? That if you wait until you have sex with a sexist bastard, why then maybe you can have a relationship with him?
Why would you want to?
You have sex with a guy who has issues with women’s sexuality and he doesn’t respect you. GREAT! You know he’s a jerk and you avoid him in the future. Case closed.
This isn’t rocket science that we’re talking about here, Mira, and it’s amazing to me that so many women have trouble grasping this simple point.
Now. Here’s the thing. Many of those guys aren’t bad human beings. They’re just raised that way. Some of them might be dating/relationship material.
Er, sorry. Right, right and WRONG! FAIL! This is so many women’s number one problem: you think men are some sort of “fixer upper” project. Just slap a coat of paint on him and you’ll have a good buy.
It doesn’t work that way, Mira. If he has issues, he’s going to have to resolve them, not you. And there’s no way he is EVER going to come to grips with his sexist double standards if you play up to them, is there? Yes, some of those guys are nice. I also happen to know some very nice and sincere racists, too. Hell, even Hitler was a vegetarian and drove a Volkswagen. So what? And so what if they were raised that way? You don’t have to put up with other people’s family issues.
This all makes sense, right?
No, it doesn’t make sense at all. It is illogical magical thinking which ignores everything we know about how human beings really work.
Bottom line: if he’s an unrepentant sexist pig BEFORE you marry him, he’s almost going to certainly remain so afterwards.
Now here’s the deal: if you screw him right off the bat and he thinks you’re a slut, good on you! You had some sex, which is always a plus, and you’ve now avoided years of potential catering to a sexist jerk who you’ll always think is just about to reform.
Can’t go wrong with that.
Well, right for many women, but not for me. You see, I never wanted to be with a man who doesn’t respect women. I never wanted to be with a man who would call women “sluts” just because they are having sex on (insert number)th date. Even if I earned his respect by refusing to have sex with him, why would I want to be with such a man?
Oh, OK. NOW I get it! Whew!!! You really had me going there for a bit, Mira! 😀
Sorry.
But let’s be realistic. There is a really, really low percentage of men who would respect a woman if she had sex with them on a first date. Or even second. Or third.
C’mon. There’s no way in hell you can know that. I am a man and I will tell you one thing, straight up:
I have NEVER heard a man say “Oh, I had sex with Mira but I’m not going to go out with her anymore because she’s a slut: she had sex with me on the first date.”
I HAVE heard many men say “Hell, when I met Mira we went at it like two rabbits on Viagra and today we’re married.”
“Respect”. I don’t think I have ever heard a man use it with regards to what he feels towards a woman who’s not an immediate family member. OK, lie. I’ve used it and maybe a few other guys do. But let’s get real, Mira: 95% of men don’t respect women, period, unless they are female relatives. Sex has nothing to do with it.
And no, the guys who feel that way are not good or quality unless those two words are only related to their socio-economic status – in which case, again, why are women worried about being perceived as whores and sluts?
F@#$ ’em and move on. You’re much more likely to find someone you CAN live with that way than the “good girl” who’s only going to give it up to Prince Charming.
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@peanut
I beg to differ. It may suck to never have a date but it beats the heck out of getting syphilis or herpes.
Um… But why would you get syphilis or herpes? First of all, you can get those even if you have sex only with one person in your life. Second of all, you know… Protection.
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my husband is white and older.
Some people have probelm with it because they think number 6. ‘oh an older white man with a young mixed race/foreign woman- he must be a pervert and she must be a golddigger’
I hate that. Just stop with the stereotypes already.
we met and fell in love – I wish people wouldn’t judge.
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Peanut sez:
I beg to differ. It may suck to never have a date but it beats the heck out of getting syphilis or herpes.
Y’know, Peanut, modern science has invented these things called “condoms” and their use – with a bit of common sense – reduces your chance of STDs top far less than the chance of getting hit while crossing the street at a stoplight.
And if you’re going to start raving about “no condom is perfect”, you’re right. But then again, sex in general is dangerous, innit? You have sex with ONE guy – just one – and you can get an STD. In Brazil right now, the largest growing group of HIV bearers are women who have been faithful to one man their whole lives. Turns out the hubby wasn’t being so faithful.
Practicing SAFE sex is going to save you more than playing the abstinence-oh-hell-I-guess-I’ll-screw-him-because-he says-he-really-loves-me game.
And is anything completely safe? Hell no. But being smart about who you ahve sex with – and more importantly how – is much safer than any number of situations you engage in daily without thought. Driving a car, for one.
So no: promiscuity does not equal STDs and abstinence and marriage does not equal sexual health. I don’t care how much Church snake oil you’ve swallowed, that’s just not true.
WHat’s the point, you orgasm and then life goes on.
Yes, that’s precisely the point. Pity you can’t see it. What’s more the pity: you seem to think that this blindness puts you in some sort of morally superior space. You think sex is for preganancy. I think I’m safe in saying that 95% of the planet would beg to differ.
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Here’s another example of the double standard at work, this time articulated by Islandgirl:
I totally disagree that all men care about initially is sex when meeting someone. Maybe they find that person interested and want to get to know them first. That’s the case in my experience.
There are some nice guys in the world – no matter what the color.
Why, in heaven’s name, is a man “not nice” if he thinks about sex?
And furthermore, who said anything about “thinking about sex when he first meets a person”?
I said men think about sex WHEN THEY ASK YOU OUT ON A DATE. That’s rather the point of the whole affair, Islandgirl. And yes, he can be a “nice guy” when he does that. He might even be interested in you in other senses.
But make no mistake about it: he’s asked you on a date because he’s interested in you for sex.
Again, it amazes me how many women have been trained by Walt Disney and the Church to miss this simple fact of life.
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i’m offended that someone would ignore or a dump a woman just because she stated she wasn’t comfortable with having sex at any given time. Why should she do something she is not comfortable with just to please a man?? THAT is sexist to me.
Sex is not the end all be all. You screw and then life goes on… Men should respect a woman as a person who chooses to abstain from sex. If you dont’ respect that decision, then you dont’ respect her period.
Also, people should respect people’s decisions and stop asking people to conform. I don’t judge people who choose to sex up whoever they want, so men need to stop castigating women who choose to wait and then BLAMING them for their lack of companionship. Let people be individuals, let them live their lives.
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“Y’know, Peanut, modern science has invented these things called “condoms”
Response:
Y’ know, Thad condoms can break, malfunction and not everyone believes in using them…Thad
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“First of all, you can get those even if you have sex only with one person in your life.”
Response:
Not if two people on have sex with one person their whole life, you can’t…
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i’m offended that someone would ignore or a dump a woman just because she stated she wasn’t comfortable with having sex at any given time.
Yeah, I would be offended, too. Far be it for me to dump someone just because she doesn’t want to have sex. I have never done that.
What I HAVE done is dumped someone because she indicated to me that she has a little timetable and checklist running in her brain about “us” that has nothing to do with what we’re saying, doing or feeling.
And I think I was completely correct.
Such a woman is objectiying me as some sort of fashion acessory in her life. I’m a product she’s buying. I’m an investment. I am not Thaddeus, the person who’s right in front of her. I am an abstraction called “potentially a quality guy” who’s quality she’s going to assess in accordance with some bulls$%t list she pulled out of the pages of Cosmo or 16.
In short, she’s being as brutally objectifiying as any basement-dwelling nerd whoever said of Jenna Jameson, “Yeah, she’d be hot if she’d just get a bigger pair of implants”.
Momma didn’t raise any fools here, Peanut. Why the hell should I want to get involved with someone who sees me as a little plastic cut-out.
Now, if she says “Hey, I just don’t feel like it tonight” that’s completely reasonable. If she says “I’m sorry, I just got out of a relationship and I’m not ready to be intimate with oter people”, great. I might not like it, but she’s got a point.
Hell, there are plenty of good reasons to not have sex. “I read somewhere that men do not respect women who have sex on the first date” is not one of them and any woman who says that to a guy is, in fact, showing that she treats men as interchangeable cut-out stereotypes in accordance with a logic that sees sex as a necessary prelude to a relationship.
I submit to you that any smart man who hears those words should immediately turn tail and run. The idea that we should invest emotionally and sexually in people who see us as, essentially, dolls is offensive to me, Peanut.
Sex is not the end all be all.
Whoever said or implied that it is, Peanut?
You screw and then life goes on…
Not according to you. According to you, you screw and then you have a relationship. Screwing means someone owes you something.
Also, people should respect people’s decisions and stop asking people to conform.
Who’s asking you to conform? You do what you want and believe what you want. Want to believe that men don’t think about sex when they ask you out on a date? Go ahead. Want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Rare back and fantasize away, Peanut!
Just please don’t ask me to not point and snicker. I DO have that right, you know.
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Not if two people on have sex with one person their whole life, you can’t…
You can (well, herpes at least).
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Y’ know, Thad condoms can break, malfunction and not everyone believes in using them.
No kidding. Then again, cars can get you killed, but I bet you still drive one. And the fact that seatbelts can fail doesn’t stop you from belting yourself in, does it?
Not if two people on have sex with one person their whole life, you can’t…
And how, pray tell, are you going to guarantee that?
The world is full of HIV+ women who thought their partners were faithfull, Peanut.
Again, believe what you want. That’s your right. Just as it’s my right to call “BS!”
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You can (well, herpes at least).
HIV too. The hubbie could turn out to be a very faithful and loving intravenous drug user. Or, as happened here in Brazil, a hemophiliac.
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You ladies will excuse me, but dead serious point which impacts on this topic:
I’m going down to Copacabana right now to interview a pair of “quality” African American guys whose wives think they are at a convention in Atlanta.
Catch you all later.
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“Yes, that’s precisely the point. Pity you can’t see it. What’s more the pity: you seem to think that this blindness puts you in some sort of morally superior space. You think sex is for preganancy. I think I’m safe in saying that 95% of the planet would beg to differ.”
woah, woah, woah! Now whose being morally superior. I never said there was something wrong with people having sex just to have sex. Screw whoever you want to, I said, that I don’t like to do that. That’s my thing, I don’t think I’m superior to anyone, you clearly do though. I guess you have all the answers. Thaddeus is the only one who can see clearly and everyone else is just silly, also don’t EVER assume you know my personal beliefs. You don’t know whether I go to church or not, nor do you know how that ties into my personal and moral beliefs, LOL. What a funny guy…
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Peanut didn’t mention HIV, so I didn’t want to mention it either.
@peanut
Of course everybody has a full right on an opinion, and full right to stick to their beliefs and
I do not, for example, think condoms are bad. In fact, they are very, very good thing. The thing that could save many lives (in so many ways) if used correctly and with discipline. I do not believe abstinence programs help, I do not believe teaching kids sex is bad and condoms don’t help is a good way to stop teenage pregnancy, HIV transition and abortion. However, I do know not everybody share my beliefs, which is fine. I won’t stop using condoms and I would teach my child about birth control, because that’s the right way to do- in my opinion.
@peanut
i’m offended that someone would ignore or a dump a woman just because she stated she wasn’t comfortable with having sex at any given time. Why should she do something she is not comfortable with just to please a man?? THAT is sexist to me.
Because most of men ARE sexist. Just like they wouldn’t respect you if you have sex on a first date, many would leave if you don’t have sex with them after (insert time period). That’s just the way they are.
If a woman (or a man for that matter) wants to practice abstinence before marriage, (s)he has to know waiting for the right one will take some time. Not many people share the same beliefs. This doesn’t mean you should abandon your beliefs- but you can’t allow yourself to be naive, either. Knowing that, say, 99% men would dumb you if you sleep with them on a first date or refuse to sleep with them before marriage gives you the perspective on what’s going on around you. This way, you can find the one who shares your beliefs more easily.
Sex is not the end all be all. You screw and then life goes on… Men should respect a woman as a person who chooses to abstain from sex. If you dont’ respect that decision, then you dont’ respect her period.
I agree. A man should respect a woman’s “no”. But on the other hand, a man should respect a woman’s “yes” in the same way. Let’s rephrase your sentence: Men should respect a person who chooses to have sex anytime she wants. If you dont’ respect that decision, then you dont’ respect her period.
But you know? It’s not men’s fault. It’s women’s. As long as women call other women “sluts” for having sex “too soon”, and feel special when the same men respect her but not other women (because they have sex and she doesn’t), men will continue to be sexist.
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woah, woah, woah! Now whose being morally superior. I never said there was something wrong with people having sex just to have sex. Screw whoever you want to, I said, that I don’t like to do that. That’s my thing, I don’t think I’m superior to anyone, you clearly do though. I guess you have all the answers. Thaddeus is the only one who can see clearly and everyone else is just silly, also don’t EVER assume you know my personal beliefs. You don’t know whether I go to church or not, nor do you know how that ties into my personal and moral beliefs, LOL. What a funny guy…
Peanut, you have a full right to stick to your beliefs! What Thad (or I, or anyone for that matter) thinks isn’t important. At all.
However, I simply had to state my opinion. What you, and Lynette are saying make sense to many women so I know it’s not some silly thing nobody believes in. But it never made sense to me. I never wanted to be respected for not having sex. I wanted a man to respect me because of who I was, not because of my vagina.
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“I submit to you that any smart man who hears those words should immediately turn tail and run. The idea that we should invest emotionally and sexually in people who see us as, essentially, dolls is offensive to me, Peanut.”
Thaddeus, I don’t know what your issue is, but it aint go shit to do with me. I don’t think I ever implied or said any of what you’re talking about.
“Who’s asking you to conform? You do what you want and believe what you want. Want to believe that men don’t think about sex when they ask you out on a date? Go ahead. Want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Rare back and fantasize away, Peanut!”
Also, when did I say that men dont; think about sex when they ask you out???? YOu’ve got me confused clearly with someone else…
Also, you are the one whose on some moral, superior, pedestal….Flying spaghetti monster…lmao that’s cute
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i’m well aware that people can get HIV without having sex, both my cousins had it, they were drug addicts, that’s why i didn’t mention HIV. Also I’m aware you can get herpes from autoinoculation.
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I was just stating my belief (personal and subjective as any other beliefs) that in the long run, condoms help prevent sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancy much better than abstinence programs in school.
Birth control works. Not in 100% of cases, but it does work in large percentage. I don’t know anybody who was responsible with contraception that got pregnant or infected with any STD.
Lynette: Sex means being responsible and mature. Those who are not, should not have sex until they figure some things out.
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@Lynette
That’s what I’m talking about! Just stick to your beliefs, just stick to what you feel is right. It doesn’t matter what other people think. Not in this case.
However, I do believe women should unite, in a way. We shouldn’t call each other “sluts” or “frigid” or some other horrible names just because we have different views. And we should not practice those beliefs because of men (to stay with us, to respect us, to marry us, etc), but because we feel it’s right for US.
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Thad said:
“‘Respect’. I don’t think I have ever heard a man use it with regards to what he feels towards a woman who’s not an immediate family member.”
I have heard it plenty of times from men in regard to how easy women are.
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I don’t care if men respect me. I really dont’ care what people think about me, my sexual decision have little to nothing to do with what men will think of me.
I just choose to abstain because its my body and I have the right to choose what is done to it. As long as I’m not hurting anyone, who gives a sh*t whether i have sex or not.
I would not want to be w/ a man who thought lesser of me for not having sex or who though lesser of me for having sex. I am more than sex and its not the end all be all. I just don’t like the way society’s hypes it up, like its some big thing. Big f*cking deal whether you do it or not. Anyone can have sex or not have sex…hell i may never have sex, so what…I personally don’t see the point in having sex, climaxing (if your lucky) w/ some random guy. To me its pointless, it doesn’t change anything to me. That’s MY opinion, I’m not speaking for or about or judging anyone else’s choices. I’m talking about Peanut!
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I mentioned this in another post a few weeks ago about older white men who are old enough to be my grandaddy approaching me. Not even bothering to ask if I have a boyfriend. The difference is that the young white guys will at least ask to see if I’m interested or seeing someone. The older white guys assume that I’m supposed to be flattered. One day, I was going into the grocery store. I was just off from work so I was dressed professionally. This older white man stopped his car, rolled down his windshield, and said to me in a creepy voice, “You wanna have some fun.” Now I am a grown woman but because I am petite, people assume that I am 10 years younger. A lot of them really do believe that young, black women are stupid, desperate and naive.
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islandgirl,
I totally disagree that all men care about initially is sex when meeting someone. Maybe they find that person interested and want to get to know them first. That’s the case in my experience.
There are some nice guys in the world – no matter what the color.
Definitely.
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oh and Thaddues, I have a license. Most of the time I use public transportation (less pollution)
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But make no mistake about it: he’s asked you on a date because he’s interested in you for sex.
Oh boy. Please don’t speak for all men or make blanket statements like that.
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Mira,
Because most of men ARE sexist…That’s just the way they are.
That’s why I’m glad I’ve got me a male feminist. 😀
On a serious note, I don’t think that’s an accurate statement. More accurate would be “some men are sexist.” I’ve known plenty of men who weren’t sexist. They acknowledged that there may be differences between men and women but they didn’t see women as inferior or apply different standards to them.
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I do know several men who are not sexists. I married one of them. Still, I do think that, sadly, they are in minority.
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You’re married? You look like a baby. 😀
I don’t think they’re in the minority. But I also accept that there may be a cultural difference. I’m loathe to paint people of certain groups with the same brush, but it has been my experience that men from countries outside of the US tend to hold more sexist views. Just my experience. May have a bit to do with culture — the US is probably a bit more progressive in terms of gender equality (although not at all on other fronts).
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Below is an excellent comment a BW posted on a BW empowerment blog I belong to and I think it highlights steps WM/NON-BM need to take to improve their relationships with BW.
“The ball is more so in the white and other men’s court not the black women court. They are MEN, they are the ones who are the gatekeepers of relationships as we have learned from this topic. The one’s who are attracted to black women need to seriously step up their game. They need to get balls and stop worrying about rejection, because black women are women too. Yes, they may get rejected by black women, guess what, they’ll get rejected by other women too. Stop thinking of black women as some scary creatures to be afraid of. Also, just because a black woman turns down a white man or another race of man doesn’t mean that she does not like white men (or another race), it just may be that you are not her type. Oh well…move on! Just because that black woman doesn’t like you does not mean all black women won’t like you.”
“One of the main things white and other races of men MUST stop doing is approaching black women in a different type of way than they would approach other women, and stop saying stupid things when you meet or try to get to know a black woman. (Let me state something for the record, I have spent more of my life around white people, so I have A LOT of experience of being around non black people, and the things I say with regards to this subject are from years of experience with meeting, knowing and observing white and other non black men). Some of the crazy posts that we have seen on here from white and other non black men, with the sexual and graphic things that they vomit out of their mouths, are things I’ve heard many times from them in person. That kind of talk is normal for many (not all of course) non black men who claim to like black women. Even when they are not saying sexual things, they are doing all types of crazy things like trying to rap, and talking about race in the very first conversation…heck, even in the very first sentence many times. Someone needs to TEACH them that all they need to do is talk to black women like they are WOMEN, THAT’S IT! It’s extremely simple.”
“If more white and other races of men would start approaching black women (RESPECTFULLY), more black women would come out of their shells with regards to interracial dating.”
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Thank you, Natasha!
Thad, The Church and Disney are worlds away – one is real and one is not.
Why is it so unbelievable that there are men out there who, upon asking or taking a woman out, they just thinking about their company and living in the moment?
Shani,
It’s hard to believe that men actually say things like that to a complete stranger. That’s sad.
I agree with Peanut and Lynette, it is good to hold onto your values and morals. I am the same way, ladies.Trust me, men can sense a woman who have those.
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Peanuts got it going on! (Secure in herself) I was often intimidated by men to have sex when I was younger, to prove I was a women, and not GAY! (This is a form of abuse).
Today, I feel like, if I am not willing to marry someone or have their baby, then I don’t need to be having sex with them. I’ve had abortions. (I paid for the abortions and STD’s medical bills), while the man went on his merry way!If someone does not think enough about me to marry me, then why should I think enough about him to change my life forever with their baby….I am now a born again virgin!
I could have loved a sensitive man like Michael Jackson (Ahem!…Before so many surgeries). Anyway, young pretty girls get F*ked! Many women do not learn to say No until after 30 yrs old, they say, I don’t know? While her politeness or non-responsiveness is taken advantage of.
Most men have imaginations of sex with out a focus, I have imaginations of sex with a particular person. But that is the difference between men and women.
Men should think, does his actions and thoughts emulate the image of God?
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I’m sorry, I got off topic. I have dated white men, but never loved a white man. I dated a white jewish man that cried later that evening after his white friends disrespected me at a all white party. I thought that was weak of him, he did not come to my rescuse, he cowered in the corner, when all I tried to do was have a conversation with a couple.
I think the whit men were in it for sex only. There are a lot of myths about sex with black women in their community (brings you luck, best performers, etc). Anyway, I am one-two generations ahead, and wasted my precious youthful years dating people I knew I would not marry..so ladies, savor your youth and date someone you would marry, because, take note! men date and marry young women.
I was a young beautiful educated professional woman, which I still am a professional, beauty I think, but single. I never have been a lonley person. Maybe because I am a Christian, an artist and designer. I attended mostly white churches as well, but would not consider marrying a white man, due to cultural problems with his family. I feel marriage is hard enough, I don’t need to be mistreated. (As in LOOK before you leap).
Anyway, white men seem to never have stood proud like I wanted to be treated. Also, they seemed to always take me to the less trendier spots, because they were ashamed of being seen with a black woman?! Did not want their friends to catch them?! Anyway, there you have it! You must experience this for yourselves….so have fun ladies, but rule your own bodies!
And don’t get AIDS! Get Wise!
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One thing I’ve seen when growing up in Canada was the White men who specifically went for Black girls usually were rejects within their own race.
I noticed that they
1. Had a sexual fetish for Black skin due to stereotypes
2. Didnt have a steady income( or even a job) and wanted a Black girl to support him
3. Came from a messed up dysfunctional family.
4. They know they had NOTHING to contribute to the relationship but used their white skin as a smokescreen to unsuccessfully hide their obvious flaws. They felt their white skin would compensate for the fact they were losers
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Gia,
I’m sorry that you were not treated with the respect you deserved in your younger years but I wanted to reassure you that men don’t SOLELY marry younger women and it is possible to find a fulfilling, long term relationship as an older woman (especially since we BW age so well).
My favorite example of this is Tina Turner. After surviving a nightmarish marriage to Ike (when she was younger), she went on to enter a long term relationship (when she was 46) with a German man (17 years younger) that has lasted 23 years. Tina always speaks glowingly of her partner and their long standing relationship.
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My boyfriend is white, and I think the above list shows why I (and probably other women), while I don’t have a racial preference (the features I like are found in all different types of men), probably wouldn’t date a man who had never dated a Black woman. Not because we are all the same, but being the first means you probably have to deal with the most crap, and I don’t want to be anyone’s version of racial Hooked on Phonics. I think in general, a lot of people would apply the same standard to dating someone who’s never been in a relationship after a certain age.
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Now let’s put the silliness aside, shall we? In the traditional world of sexist values, IG, women are willing to go with older, uglier guys because women are traditionally taught to see men as SUCCESS objects, not sex objects. And who are the guys in any given group who tend to have the most cash and success? Older guys.
My fantasy is to meet and marry an wealthy older man with a heart condition! Preferably on a ventilator like Anna Nicole Smith’s octogenarian husband was! Unlike Anna Nicole, I would make sure the will was air tight! This puts me in mind of that old joke:
What’s a woman’s four favourite animals?
A mink, a jaguar, tiger and a jacka$$.
A mink in the closet.
A Jaguar in the garage.
A tiger in bed.
A jacka$$ to pay for all of this!
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Gia,
Sorry for your experiences. But, you’ve paid your dues, and now it’s time for someone great to come into your life (if not already).
I agree with Laromana about Tina Turner. Not everyones time is in their youth. Some people are late bloomers and their time comes later in life, like Ms. Turner. To me, that’s the best, because you don’t peak too early and you have something to look forward to.
This comments really surprise me. I thought it was generally easy to date a white man. Relationship problems know no race, they are just different types of problems.
Hernith, funny.lol
I disagree Thad, there are a lot of younger guys on the grind who are making money much younger.
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GIa, there is still hope! Its never too late
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@ Jasmin, I am the first black woman my SO has been in a relationship with, and he hasn’t been guilty of any the points in the post except number two. But he acknowledges that he has this view and is willing to work on it. I see improvement in him every day so I’m going to give up on him yet. The other day, we were talking and he said “You know, while you were saying that, a thought popped into my head: ‘She’s so much more like a white woman than a black woman.’ But then I thought ‘Why should her being feminine and articulate mean she’s like a white woman? Black women can be those things and some white women are not.’ I guess I haven’t been completely rid of my biases.” I just kissed him. My baby is learning… *sniff* 🙂
@ Herneith, LMAO at the Anna Nicole comment. Your posts always crack me up.
And I agree. The stereotypes and generalizations in the comments of this post are a bit much. To the point where they are just silly. I don’t even know exactly how much my SO makes. I do know he’s not mooching off me and he has enough to provide for himself and others if he needed to, and that’s all that matters.
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And your ten points are the very reason many of these relationships don’t last. A stong, socially conscience Black woman will NOT push aside her principles. And if she does decide to remain in this type of relationship, she WILL have issues and regrets, down the road.
I think it’s more curiosity than anything else though. You know white males have long for Black women for centuries. It pains them so that they are unable to exhibit the same sort of machismo that Black men naturally have on a broad scale. It does. That’s why this LOVE HATE relationship particulary with the Black man continues to evolve.
Outside of their race, many seem to lack relevant conversation, and tend to be socially awkward.
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Thank you for this article! I recently had a incredibly bizzare experience on a blog site that purported to support black women who were thinking about dating white men. It was like being on a white supremacist site. The author and her supporters felt that any black women who had concerns like those that you listed were “brainwashed Pan-Africanists” who were under the sway of black men who actively sought to destroy them. When I listed my concerns, including the fact that my sister is married to a man that has cut her off from her family and pressures her not to use her time supporting black causes, these wing-nuts said I was lying and that women like me were “sister soldiers” that give off vibes that make us unattractive to white men. When I tried to outline the historical and current racially gendered issues that could come up in these relationships, the author refused to post my comments, but would angrily blog about what she refused to publish. It made me think, if that is the kind of mental contortions you have to go to date a white guy, I will happily stick with brothers, Asians, Hispanics and Native Americans.
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Eshowoman,
Are you talking about the Evia website? I turned away from her long time ago when she bash Black men and say that white men are the saviours when history show that they weren’t.
La Reyna
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MEN are the problem, ladies. The black and white variants of said problem are multiple, but is surprises me that people who are so radical and binary when it comes to thinking race seem to think that with the proper ammount of melanin, sexisms’ contradictions simply disappear.
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They sound like a bunch of nutjobs! What site was this?
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Thad, you sound like a man-hater!
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Thad,
This post BEGAN with ten whopping blanket statements and now you get upset at another, Natasha? Please! Such precise and delicate sensibilites.
You’re assuming I agree with the points in the post. Where did I say that? I didn’t openly say I disagree since the qualification “some” was added twice in the title. Whereas your statements did not.
And you REALLY think most men are asking you out on a date because they want to get to know you better, that sex is the furthest thing from their mind…?
Do you really think being condescending, and using capital letters and smilies makes your assertions more believable?
And no, I don’t think most men do anything. I just think not all of them are solely interested in what you say they are. My problem with your statements is that you believe you speak for all men.
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When I listed my concerns, including the fact that my sister is married to a man that has cut her off from her family and pressures her not to use her time supporting black causes,
This is one of the many reasons why I do not date white guys. I will never give up supporting black causes or turn my back on my family or black people in general. Here are some other reasons why I will date any ethnicity except white.
1 I can’t get over the abuse, rapes, beatings, killings, and torture that black people suffered during slavery at the hands of white men.
2 Many white men veiw black women as beneath them
3 White men created and believe in a beauty heirachy that places black women at the bottom. example the Pretty for a black girl comments.
4 Some white men refer to black women as the N word even when in a relationship with them.
5 Some white men have a deep down resentment for black men this will include the men in my family
6 Some white men date black women but still look down on black people as a whole. example the Your not like other black people comment.
7 You have to deal with their ignorant racist family and friends
8 The penis envy some white men have for black men is a major turn off.
9 Most white men are cowards and fear people who look different than them
10 Some white men do not respect black women and veiw bw as sex objects
11 Many white men fail to understand racism because they are racist themselves.
12 White men do not understand what it is like to be a minority nor do they care about minorities.
13 Some white men do not veiw black women as human. this has been said repeatedly all over the internet
14 Some white men look down on their own children who have a black mother. History has proved this.
This list can go on forever
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Great list! Thanks.
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Excellent list, Leaveumthinking! So much truth.
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Really, how common is this “creepy old white men” phenomenon anyway? I’ve never heard of this before (though I’m not female).
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peanut says
-I beg to differ. It may suck to never have a date but it beats the heck out of getting syphilis or herpes. I’m not giving it up that easy and men shouldn’t either. WHat’s the point, you orgasm and then life goes on. Why have sex w/ someone who I don’t love and who I’m not sure loves me? No point, unless I just want to get pregnant right then and there.
-Hopefully your orgasm lol, that’s not a guarentee either…*
There are plenty things in my opinion that are probably more rewarding and fufilling than sharing sex with some random dude. I’m more interested in those.
islandgirl says,
I totally disagree that all men care about initially is sex when meeting someone. Maybe they find that person interested and want to get to know them first. That’s the case in my experience.
There are some nice guys in the world – no matter what the color.
abagond says,
I have heard it plenty of times from men in regard to how easy women are.
lynette says,
Stick to your moral values. I knew my husband was the right one, because he was willing to wait a long long time. He also told me that he respected me because I chose not to jump in bed with him as soon as I met him.
peanut, island girl, abagond, and lynette,
Thanks for your excellent points.
Despite the many DISRESPECTFUL/CONDESCENDING/MOCKING remarks on this post, there is NOTHING WRONG with women looking for/believing that there are STILL CERTAIN men who care about MORE than JUST SEX, are willing to get to know a woman, WAIT for sex, and accept/respect her for adhering to moral values.
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Leaveumthinking…. You should be ashamed of yourself. You re a pure racist. Most wm are cowards? You’re a ignoramus. You’re entire list is based on stereotypes, assumptions and racist, anti-white beliefs held by far left wing nuts like yourself. You’re a very hateful person. You wouldn’t like it if people said those things about black women. You should grow up and view people on an individual basis.
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Thad says:
“And given the fact that these ‘morals’ we’re talking about (i.e women are nice if they don’t have casual sex and sluts if they do) are about as relevant to human life in the twenty first century as the belief that the world is flat, most men who are not raving sexists or idiots are going to run fast and f$%@ing far away when they sense that. The ones who stay are either going to use your morals against you or are happy to play the double standard game because they know it almost always ends up massively in their favor.”
I guess that makes me a raving sexist or an idiot.
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Thad:
The reason white men seem to regard black women as sex objects more often than black men is because they do. Men are men – they all have sex on the brain. I agree with that. But SOME white men, because of their racism, already do not see black women as fully human so it makes it that much easier to see black women ONLY in terms of sex.
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Agreed, Abagond. That’s my point. I’ll repeat it again: the racism here isn’t that white men see black women in terms of sex: it’s that they don’t feel that they need to censor or tone down that urge because “black women all want it”. Furthermore, if they insult a black woman with their behavior, they’re more likely to go “Well, f$%& her, anyhow” and not think about what they did.
So yes, racism definitely acts to potentiallize sexism.
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Herneith sez:
Thad, you sound like a man-hater!
Nope, I am a sexism hater. And something of a gender-roles hater, too. But men…? Nah. They are what they’ve been made and, for what it’s worth, many of the people who’ve had a hand in their making are women.
I don’t think men are bad to do what they do, but I do think it’s utopian in the extreme, given men’s sexual training, to believe that guys are asking you out on a date because they want a relationship. Very, very few men are taught that and most of those men most women wouldn’t date because they are not “masculine” enough.
Male sexuality is demonized. I mean, look at the comments here above: if he’s thinking about sex, he’s “not nice” is what most of them boil down to. But rest assured: male sexuality is “that way” most of the time, for whatever the reason, be it biological or cultural.
All one needs to do is take a look at gay men. What is men’s first impulse once they’ve decided they no longer need women as anything but friends? Do they, as a rule, start to think about their potential partner’s deeper and more personal feelings before they start to have sex with them? Hell no! They build notoriously free and easy pick-up scenes.
The funny thing is that lesbian women also seem to ditch the good girl/bad sex split. That, in and of itself, should tell you just how artificial women’s gender role is: men who are homosexual tend to act pretty much like straight guys in their attitudes towards sex while homosexual women become much less interested in the whole “slut” complex.
Natasha sez:
I didn’t openly say I disagree since the qualification “some” was added twice in the title. Whereas your statements did not.
You’re not reading very carefully then, Natasha: my statements are loaded with qualifiers. Also, I take it as a given the we are speaking in generalizations here and that this point doesn’t need to be belabored in every sentence.
Generalizations, in and of themselves, are not bad. They are, in fact, necessary.
Do you really think being condescending, and using capital letters and smilies makes your assertions more believable?
No, but I do believe they catch your attention and add emphasis where I want it.
And no, I don’t think most men do anything. I just think not all of them are solely interested in what you say they are. My problem with your statements is that you believe you speak for all men.
Then you are picking a nit. As I have indicated repeatedly above, I am making a statement about the vast majority of heterosexual men. What any sociologist would call “normal” men, always remembering that we sociologists don’t consider “normal” to be synonymous with “good” or “acceptable”. “Normal” in the sense that you’ll find these kinds of men everywhere whereas you may have trouble finding other kinds of men. And yes, I think this is indeed “most” men. I’d go so far as to say 80% of het men, at least, but that’s just a percentage based on annecdotal observation.
Of course, if you’re living in one of the rare gay and feminist-supportive cities (say Madison, Wisconsin or Campinas, Brazil), that number might drop as low as 40%. But those cities are very few and very far between.
Iaromara sez:
There are plenty things in my opinion that are probably more rewarding and fufilling than sharing sex with some random dude. I’m more interested in those.
Interesting that you seem to think allowing oneself the freedom to enjoy casual sex means having sex with just anyone at random, Iaromara. It’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that! I, for one, don’t have sex with people I don’t trust. I have made bad judgement calls from time to time, but so do people who marry, right? I just don’t think that trust is something that works out to a timetable. It can be built in an evening or never built at all, no matter how much time you give it. But when “trust” means “I can only have sex with you if I feel that there’s a good chance you’ll devote the rest of your life to me” then, I’m sorry: that person has issues with sexuality in general that I’m certainly not going to resolve.
Giving oneself sexual freedom means taking responsability for one’s choices, Iaormara, not throwing one’s hands in the air and saying “I’m for anyone who wants me!”
There are some nice guys in the world – no matter what the color.
Again, belaboring the obvious: here’s yet another woman who seems to feel that sex just isn’t “nice”. It really makes you wonder about a society that can brainwash a good chunk of its women into believing something like this. And Americans cluck their tongues at veils and chadours!
Despite the many DISRESPECTFUL/CONDESCENDING/MOCKING remarks on this post, there is NOTHING WRONG with women looking for/believing that there are STILL CERTAIN men who care about MORE than JUST SEX, are willing to get to know a woman, WAIT for sex, and accept/respect her for adhering to moral values.
And again, caring ABOUT sex seems to mean that one is constitutionally incapable of caring about anything else.
I make a very simple statement – very easy to undewrstand: when the vast majority of het men ask you on a date for the first time they are thinking primarily about sex.
Somehow, this gets warped into “men who think about sex can’t think about anything else at all”, which becomes “thinking about sex isn’t nice”.
God. So this is what 20 years of Republican horse manure on “family values” have taught the young women of America. [roll eyes]
Look, Iaomara, you’re free to believe whatever the hell you want. But if you really believe that guys are asking you out because they want a buddy or because they are thinking about a stable, committed relationship, then I’m sorry: you are in the same category of people who believe that the Earth is flat or that God made the world 13,000 years ago. There’s very little out there to back up your belief and a hell of a lot of evidence to support mine.
And it you don’t like being teased, think a couple of times before saying silly things.
Look, it’s the Flying Spaghetti Monster…! 😀
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Abagond sez:
I guess that makes me a raving sexist or an idiot.
With all due respect, Abagond, I’d say you’re hanging rather farther into the sexist category. You haven’t put near as much effort into breaking down gender as you have into breaking down race. You still seem to think that sex and gender are pretty much natural attributions.
A feminist would say that, as a straight man, you don’t have to think about these things. The rules on gender work for you more often than not, so why think hard on the topic?
As a person who’s generally feminist-supportive but not a feminist and as someone who’s read alot of your stuff, including your very honest posts about your relations with your wife, I’d say that you’ve come to the private conclusion on several occasions that the gender roles game isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, even if you’re a straight guy. Howver, you don’t see any other game in town, so you’ll stick to the rules as you know them, even though you probably privately think they suck.
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Sex
What I personally believe is sexual attraction always plays a role in selecting a potential mate. I don’t think women are different than men- and I never understood women who date ugly older men (or any men they don’t find attractive) because he is “successful”. I don’t get that. I don’t.
Sexual attraction plays an important role. Let’s not pretend that it doesn’t. For both men and women. That’s what being attracted to someone means. Even if you do choose to wait for marriage, if you are attracted to a man, one component of that attraction will be sexual one.
In that sense, yes, I do believe all men think about sex when they ask a women out. Oh, not all of them think: “oh, this one is easy, I will f… her tonight!” Hey, I do believe most of men don’t think that way. What I do believe is that men divide women in two categories: those who are do-able and those who are not. If they meet a woman who falls into first category, they will ask her out. Not because she is a smart person or a nice girl. But because she falls into first category. This doesn’t mean they want sex on a first date. This doesn’t mean they think the girl is “easy”. This doesn’t mean he’s not a nice guy. Some of these men are willing to wait a long time if that’s what they believe in, especially if it’s important to them for a woman to share the same views on sex. But sexual attraction always plays an important role.
I do believe it’s absolutely the same for women. No difference. If you are attracted to someone, at least one part of that attraction is sexual. Actually, I sometimes think women take sex- at least in a way of potential offspring- more into account when choosing a guy. That’s why most of us like tall men with deep voices, for example. Don’t fool yourself: just because it’s instinctive for us to think about potential babies doesn’t mean attraction isn’t sexual- because sex is what gives babies.
Let’s face it, ladies- we do take sexual aspects into account, every time we are attracted to someone. But the way we are raised decides whether this attraction will result in one night stand or life-time devotion and abstinence till marriage (or anything in between- and there is A LOT in between and most of the women I know- hey, all women I know- are in between category).
I never went on a date with a guy that I didn’t find at least a bit attractive (attractive to me- I didn’t care if other women find him attractive or not). Does that mean I was thinking only about sex? No. In most of the cases, there was no sex. But did that mean that I could imagine myself having sex with that man? Yes. And I never even considered having sex with a man if I a) wasn’t strongly attracted to him and b) couldn’t ever possibly imagine myself pregnant with his child. (If I don’t want my DNA mixed with his even in theory, then no sex). This philosophy actually leaves you with a surprisingly low number of potential mates and, while you are not practice abstinence till marriage, you are very, very careful when it comes to dating, not to mention sex.
@Natasha W
You’re married? You look like a baby. 😀
I don’t think they’re in the minority. But I also accept that there may be a cultural difference.
Hey, thanks! People do tell me I look younger. I am 28.
Yes, there are cultural differences. But I do think differences are on the outside, not essential ones. The way men approach women in my culture is different than the way men approach women in Italy (been there, done that), and I guess it’s different for America. But is it truly different? I have no idea.
What I see about America is that people are whether too liberal (in lack of a better term) when it comes to sex, or way too conservative. (“Way too” as seen in my culture).
Racism and IR dating
What is surprising (and maybe it shouldn’t be surprising) is how many otherwise racist people are willing to be in an interracial relationship. One would think people who choose IR dating would be less racist. Some of them really are, but it doesn’t mean anything. From what I see here, it’s perfectly possible for someone who never dated outside their race to be less racist than someone dating outside the race.
Leaveumthinking’s list is very interesting, mostly because it’s honest. But what I see from the list is that only one point (the first one) seems like her decision- others are observations about white people. I don’t necessarily disagree with those observations (in fact, I do believe they’re true), however, I wonder: is number one always the most important one, even if a white man in question is nothing like described in points 2-14?
I respect Leaveumthinking’s opinion and beliefs, and, more than anything, her honesty and decision to stick to their beliefs. But I’d never mix “general picture” with personal life. What one group of people did to my group was never a deciding point when it came to dating for me.
Some of you may say it’s “not the same” because I am white, but please remember that I come from a different culture where being with someone of different religion and/or nationality is more or less the same as IR dating in America. And I do know many people who would simply refuse to ever, ever consider person of another religion or nationality, or a person of a particular religion/nationality. Given recent history, many people all over the Balkans think the same. After all, if your uncle was slaughtered by a member of (insert nationality) here, how could you date/marry a guy of that nationality??? But I never, never, thought about it the same way. I never let “bigger picture” mess with my personal life.
What makes “mixed” relationships potentially difficult is not someone’s skin colour, religion, nationality, etc. but the way the person was raised and the way person approaches the issues of race, religion and nationality, respectively.
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Mira sez:
And I never even considered having sex with a man if I a) wasn’t strongly attracted to him and b) couldn’t ever possibly imagine myself pregnant with his child.
Ha! I agree with you, Mira, that men and women are basically the same when it comes to sex and that is why I call bullsh$% on your claim to only have had sex with guys whose children you could possibly imagine having.
Never too drunk to go with the worng guy, not even once in your life, neh, Mira? 🙂 Never once just had sex because, well, you wanted to and this guy happened to be there? ALWAYS thought things through, every single time…? 😀
BS! It’s a great thoery, Mira, but in practice you know it doesn’t always go that way.
As for sex and pregnancy…
Folks, you’re all adults, right? No one here lives in some backwoods religious settlement where technology is limited to the 19th century, right?
Because sometimes it seems I’m talking to people straight out of 1868.
Even presuming that birth control is next to useless or that you have some wierd religious adversion to it, you can have sex and not get pregnant – 0% risk.
There is oral sex. Anal sex. Mutual masturbation.
C’mon, people! Since when did sex imply pregnancy, ferchrissake? Why do I have to point something this obvious out to folks?
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And this one is for Thad, the only person whose comments tend to be longer than mine. 😉
@Thad
If there is a negative stereotype about your group about being “slutty”, of course you will be more careful.
Why? Why should you care? Black men are stereotyped as studs and I don’t see them worrying twice about that when they’re trying to pull Wendy Whitebread.
Because, no matter how hard we try not to think about it, we ARE (partly) what society makes us be. We are no who/what we think we are, but also what society think we are. One drop rule? If you look black, you are black, even if you identify yourself as Asian. End of story. If society doesn’t respect “easy” women, be “easy” and you won’t get any respect. End of story.
Even you, Thad, seem to know this game very well. You don’t like when women see you not as a person, a man or a sexual mate, but a potential “relationship material”. So you decide not to play that game (and never wanted to be involved with a woman who sees you that way). Which means you’re more careful. The same goes for women when it comes to “having sex too early”. They are careful, especially those who belong to a group collectively labeled as “easy” (black women, for example).
It doesn’t work that way, Mira. If he has issues, he’s going to have to resolve them, not you. […]
You missed my point here. What I am saying is that I do believe in nurture more than nature. Take a generally good human being, but feed him rubbish about one aspect of life: volia! A sexist. Otherwise great man, but a sexist.
Now here’s the deal: if you screw him right off the bat and he thinks you’re a slut, good on you! You had some sex, which is always a plus, and you’ve now avoided years of potential catering to a sexist jerk who you’ll always think is just about to reform.
Exactly. Now, I don’t really believe in one night stands and having random sex. I do believe trust is, when it comes to sex, equally important as sexual attraction. These things do take time.
But yes, I do agree- man’s view on sex is important to me in a relationship. I never wanted to be with a sexist, or a person who’d call women “sluts” because they had sex with more partners or sooner than he approves. I don’t care if that man would respect me- I don’t want that person’s respect.
I have NEVER heard a man say “Oh, I had sex with Mira but I’m not going to go out with her anymore because she’s a slut: she had sex with me on the first date.”
I did hear men say that. Not to me, but I did hear men say that. I did see men who only respect women if they need to do a “chase”, men who would never, never respect a women if she “gives in” too soon. Or a woman who wants just a casual sex.
But let’s get real, Mira: 95% of men don’t respect women, period, unless they are female relatives. Sex has nothing to do with it.
I use “respect” in lack of a better term, and that’s the word people usually use. Yes, many men are completely unable to truly respect women, unless it’s his mother (sister, daughter) we’re talking about. But there are various levels of disrespect, and women who have sex on a first date are, at least in my culture, on the bottom.
Never too drunk to go with the worng guy, not even once in your life, neh, Mira? 🙂 Never once just had sex because, well, you wanted to and this guy happened to be there? ALWAYS thought things through, every single time…? 😀
You missed my point. All what I was talking about comes on subconscious level. a) Attraction- is easy to understand. b) Having sex because of potential babies- is not conscious. I don’t know how to explain it. I’m just going to say there are situations when your mind might be blurred, and you find yourself in a situation with someone you never in your right mind would consider as a potential mate. That’s when my brain goes “think about the children!” Not real children, of course. I strongly believe in birth control and I practice it. But “kids in theory” argument is something that did save me couple of times from making a mistake. Not in terms of one night stands, but interesting, in dating. Not sure how to explain it and I don’t even know if it makes sense.
Folks, you’re all adults, right? No one here lives in some backwoods religious settlement where technology is limited to the 19th century, right?
I never said I don’t believe in birth control and protection. I do and I practice. That is, btw, another thing that made me have less sex than you might even think. If a guy doesn’t want to wear a condom = no sex. End of story. Later in a relationship, we might think about different birth control methods. But boy, if you are not responsible, then why would I have sex with you? Sex isn’t for irresponsible people.
Then again, if someone’s religious views are against birth control, it’s another thing. Like any other belief, I respect that.
But I don’t like the stories about how “bad” and “ineffective” birth control is. Luckily, this myth doesn’t exist in my culture, but I can see it’s popular in America.
Well I know THAT. I’ve been to Disneyworld, after all, and I’ve seen Mickey Mouse (or a reasonable facsimile thereof), but I’ve never seen God.
Gotta love atheists/agnostics. At least they stick to their beliefs! 😀
Oh, and just for the record, Thad: I never understood that “nice man = no sex” thing. What I do believe (see above) in sticking to your own beliefs, no matter what they are (unless you are hurting other people). It doesn’t matter if your beliefs come from religion, family, society, Disney :P- there are very little beliefs and views that are truly, independently our own- they all must come from somewhere. I do respect people who stick to their beliefs, even if I don’t share those beliefs. Many women on this subject say casual sex is not for them. And I am happy they are not changing that belief because others disagree. What I dislike, however, is sticking to a belief to gain someone else’s respect. I didn’t get that vibe from many women here, so it’s not just about beliefs, it’s also about someone’s motives.
Also, I personally believe being interested in sex doesn’t make anyone non-nice. I do believe there are nice men who are interested in sex- same goes for women. Being interested in something natural is nice and normal. Personally, I never considered “I am not interested in sex with you” as a compliment. A guy did tell me that once and I felt like he punched me in the face. I have no idea what he wanted to say, but all I heard was “you are ugly and I am not attracted to you”. And as much as I wanted a man to be interested in my personality, intelligence, kindness, etc., I did want a man to be attracted to me.
About Abagond:
Like I said many times before, as much as I love his posts on race (as much as I- in lack of a better term- enjoy them, and learn from them), his posts on women tend to be sexist. There’s no other word for it. And yes, he is a straight man so it’s not a surprise, but I do find most of his views on women sexist. But that doesn’t mean Abagond is not a “nice guy” 🙂
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If there is a negative stereotype about your group about being “slutty”, of course you will be more careful.
Again, I ask you: why? Unless of course you buy into the whole falsly moral game of female sexual exclusiveness in the first place.
Because, no matter how hard we try not to think about it, we ARE (partly) what society makes us be.
That really doesn’t address the point, Mira. Black men are stereotyped as studs. I don’t see huge quantities of black men wandering about going “But I DON’T have a big dick! That’s just a stereotype!”
The question is properly why you would find this stereotype to be offensive, unless you buy its presumptions regarding female sexuality.
Even you, Thad, seem to know this game very well. You don’t like when women see you not as a person, a man or a sexual mate, but a potential “relationship material”. So you decide not to play that game (and never wanted to be involved with a woman who sees you that way). Which means you’re more careful.
Yes, but it’s because the person sin’t relating to me and because I have a lot to lose. Let’s say you have protected sex with a guy you thought was cool but who you’ve now learned thinks your a slut because you had sex too early.
What have you lost? What is the risk? (And PLEASE don’t say “pregnancy” or “STDs” as these objections have been dealt with comprehensively above.
In my case, there’s a very concrete risk: I get seriously involved with someone who’s nmot interested in me as a person. Maybe I even start helping raise their kid. We’re talking time, money, energy and even love pissed down the drain – potentially years of it. That’s a real loss and it has nothing to do with what others may think of me.
You sleep with a guy and find out he thinks you’re a slut. You can only have GAINED: one more off your list. You’re not going to waste time and energy on him any more, are you?
Now, I don’t really believe in one night stands and having random sex.
[snort] As if the two were synonymous. No intelligent, sexually free person I know who has one night stands engages in them “randomly”, Mira.
But you know what? I’ve seen an awful lot of otherwise intelligent “good” girls have random sex. Because they don’t admit to themselves that they do indeed have sex drives and thus take responsability for said sex drive (because, after all, they “know” they’re only going to sleep with someone whom they really love, right…?) these women often end up getting way out of control. I’ve seen these “good girls” get drunk and shtupp some guy truly at random far more often than the “sluts” I know. The “sluts” generally have a very clear idea of what they are doing and why. “Good girls” blame it on the Devil and ask Jesus to forgive them.
Again, with regards to men believing that you’re a slut because you had sex on the first date and then not wanting to marry you… OK, fair go. It happens, for sure (but I highly doubt that they wouldn’t date you again if it happens, Mira – just no relationship). But again, back to the main question: if that is so, then so what? Big deal! Or do you REALLY want to be tied down to a man like that, expecting he’s going to change?
So this is the big question we come back to again and again, but which people dance around: he thinks you’re a slut. So what? He’s out of your life then and you are a better person for it.
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It really is painful to read these lists of why white men are so undate worthy.
Since the late 60’s, any white man who thinks black American women are some easy sex kitten for them, must have been in a coma.
They would have to weave their way through a maze of complex psycological mind feilds only a glutten for pain would subject themselves to.
Americans are uptight about race and sex. I wouldnt waste an ounce of my time having to lift weights to negociate that mind feild any more.
You all can have it. Enjoy your racial devide as big as a 10 mac truck lane highway.
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Mira,
But I’d never mix “general picture” with personal life. What one group of people did to my group was never a deciding point when it came to dating for me.
I totally agree. It’s important to view each person as an individual. It would be impossible for me to be with my SO if I viewed him in terms of what white people have done historically to black people. I’ll admit it was something I struggled with initially. I spoke to him about it and although he was really hurt to find out, he understood and over time I got past my uneasiness. Just as much as I would expect him to judge me for the person I am and my own actions, and not in terms of the category society assigns me to, I do the same for him.
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@Thad
If there is a negative stereotype about your group about being “slutty”, of course you will be more careful.
Because most of the women, for various of reasons, don’t want to be treated as “sluts”. Some of them know that they won’t get anything except for sex from most of the men. While they don’t necessarily find sex bad, delaying it for a while to make a man see them as fully human seem like a logical thing to do. Those women believe they have a lot to lose if men treat them as sluts. And it’s not just in their brain, Thad. That’s real. Society will treat them bad.
This is not necessarily my opinion. Why I don’t like to be called a slut will be explained a little later, I just wanted to say a man never said that to me (not in my face), but women did. And they did for truly trivial reasons, because I didn’t agreed that women who sleep around are worthless and should be treated as garbage, or that I said I could not possibly wait a year (or 6 months for that matter) to have a sex with a man. Once in high school, even, I’ve been called a slut because I said an actor was “doable”. Other girls who were drooling over him were saying he’s “so cute” and “nice”. I simply addressed the obvious: girls, we want to do him. We don’t really care about his personality- and he’s a movie star anyway and therefore not real (not real to us, anyway). So they were shocked by my words and spread the words among guys. In the next few weeks many of them approached me- and not that they ever payed any attention on me before. It was avalanche. I was virgin. I did encounter this behaviour numerous times so I know what I’m talking about.
That really doesn’t address the point, Mira. Black men are stereotyped as studs. I don’t see huge quantities of black men wandering about going “But I DON’T have a big dick! That’s just a stereotype!”
But, don’t they? Isn’t that what Abagond wanted to do with “black buck stereotype”? Isn’t that stereotype racist and wrong as any other?
Sure… I can’t really imagine ANY man on Earth shouting- “I have a small dick!!!” but I was under the impression black men do not like to be stereotyped, and they don’t like if white women chase them because of their penises. And if they do like, they keep it strictly on the sex side- she wants sex, she gets sex. But with the last one I don’t think it’s an issue of race, but a general male issue. Men in general respect women who are “easy” less than they respect those who are chaste. Plus, since many black women have strict moral values (because they have to be twice as pure to be even considered respectable), black men could see white women as even more slutty than white men do. Or is my interpretation totally wrong?
(And yes, put “some” in front of every generalisation I wrote, it’s given).
Yes, but it’s because the person sin’t relating to me and because I have a lot to lose. Let’s say you have protected sex with a guy you thought was cool but who you’ve now learned thinks your a slut because you had sex too early.
What have you lost? What is the risk?
The risk is being with a man who is a sexist. I don’t want to be with a man who thinks women are sluts! Even if he looks like, say, Johnny Depp, I don’t want to have anything with him because he is sexist. Nobody is that attractive to completely forget about your beliefs and have sex or be involved with them in any way. No thanks. It’s not just sexist. There are many things that could turn me off, bur since we’re talking about sexism now: being called a slut isn’t my concern. Being with a man who call women sluts is. That is a risk in my book. If you wouldn’t care about it, good for you, but that is very important to me.
No intelligent, sexually free person I know who has one night stands engages in them “randomly”, Mira.
I’ve seen some reasonably intelligent people engage in pretty random one night stands. Incredibly random. Funny, I always thought one night stand is something that happens when two people are so insanely attracted to each other, their instincts are running high and they simply can’t resist. In reality, it’s not that romantic. People get drunk, start snogging because they’re bored, and the next morning they wake up next to a person they wouldn’t touch in their right mind.
But I agree- “good girls” often go crazy and do really irresponsible things.
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@Natasha W
I totally agree. It’s important to view each person as an individual. It would be impossible for me to be with my SO if I viewed him in terms of what white people have done historically to black people. I’ll admit it was something I struggled with initially. I spoke to him about it and although he was really hurt to find out, he understood and over time I got past my uneasiness. Just as much as I would expect him to judge me for the person I am and my own actions, and not in terms of the category society assigns me to, I do the same for him.
I agree. While I understand why some people choose not to do it, I felt it was never right for me. That simply isn’t who I am. I always knew that just because someone belongs to my group doesn’t mean we’re better for each other than someone who doesn’t belong to my group.
But what about “all things being equal”, people ask me. If there are two people you find equally great for you, and one of them doesn’t belong to your group? I honestly don’t know what to say here. I never been in such a situation. There aren’t so many people who are “good for you” personally, so I do think you should stick to compatible people when you find them.
I never said that it’s easy. But like I said, the difficulty isn’t conflicting histories of your two groups, but the possibility this person shares some of the bad views. Also, there’s also a pressure from the family and the way your partner and you react on it. But those are, in a way, individual traits. Being concerned about them and work on them on an individual plan is necessary. But I never ever thought on dismissing a person just because he is (enter nationality). If I were thinking like that, I wouldn’t be married to my husband. So yes, I do believe one should not mix “bigger issues” with their personal life.
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You know I’ve never heard the stereotype of black women being “so easy” and “hypersexual”.
On the other hand, I have heard that stereotype attached to white women. To be quite honest, in my experience, it seems that many white women seem to like fufilling that stereotype.
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@Mira
“Some of you may say it’s “not the same” because I am white, but please remember that I come from a different culture where being with someone of different religion and/or nationality is more or less the same as IR dating in America. And I do know many people who would simply refuse to ever, ever consider person of another religion or nationality, or a person of a particular religion/nationality. Given recent history, many people all over the Balkans think the same. After all, if your uncle was slaughtered by a member of (insert nationality) here, how could you date/marry a guy of that nationality??? But I never, never, thought about it the same way. I never let “bigger picture” mess with my personal life.”
Something I’ve wondered about is how the different ethnicities in the former Yugoslavia can tell themselves apart. Muslims are distinguishable from Christians by their religious practices of course, but how do people distinguish say a Christian Croat from a Christian Serb? Furthermore, why do these groups dislike each other so much?
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In short, Christian Croat is Catholic, Christian Serb is Eastern Orthodox. Those things are considered as different religions (it’s not a correct thing to do, but people view it like that).
Also, someone’s first and last name can hint (or show in full light) person’s ethnicity.
The answer on “why do these groups dislike each other so much” is really long (and I don’t have a definite answer), but I am always willing to talk about it.
Basically, they hate each other because of the usual things why groups hate each other: they have pretenses on the same territory, and share history of hate and violence toward each other. However!- as much as there is hate in the history, there is cooperation, and, in lack of a better term, brotherhood. In times like today’s, people all over the Balkans consider mentioning “cooperation and brotherhood” as insulting, offending and almost a blasphemy. But as much as we hate each other in some historical times, in + 50 or 100 years we are working together. It’s a strange thing indeed. This bring us in a situation that your grandfathers hated each other, your fathers considered themselves allies and now you are supposed to hate because “it’s always been like that”. It wasn’t. Great deal of Balkan wars was caused from the outside, with “divide and conquer” strategy following the fall of communism all over the world. But when you have a country made of several nations, religions and languages, it’s very easy to break it apart and cause hate and war. Especially given the fact republics within Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia…) were populated by people of different ethnicities. If you want to form your own country with your ethnicity in it only, what can you do? Either a) take parts of other republics that you think belong to you or have your ethnicity as a majority or b) clean (by murders and deportations) your territory from all those who are not of your ethnicity. Throw in local leaders who work for their interests and all you get is mess. It doesn’t mean we’re violent by nature or crazy, but I am glad people outside do see this situation as confusing.
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The first thing that skrikes me as bs in these lists ,is this referance to slavery , and that is why a black american woman shoudnt date a white man.
What the heck has something that happened in the past like that ,have to do with a lot of white men , who some, didnt even have ancestors in the states back then ?
And, there were a lot of white men from the north who died thinking they were going to war to fight for freeing the slaves.
Then, you better include on your list a lot of arabs because they were who influenced the Europeans , and , the arabs traficed more slaves. The Europeans should be on that list and then a lot of white people from the Caribean and South America , since places like Brazil had more slaves from Africa.
The truth is, that notion should be buried with some of the other things from the civil rights movement in the late 60’s , that were detrimental to the movement. Like tap dancing, an incredibley fantastic high art of dancing from the black American comunity, was classified as shucking and jiving for the white man. .Or Louis Armstrong was looked on as an uncle Tom.
These lists are total bs to me. But you all can have it, have all your rationalisations why you want to put up barriors from dating a white man. True, American white men, generaly speaking, are really boring. But, why narrow a list by race when there might be somebody special for you in that race.
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Commentary from Jack proves Penut’s and Leavumthinking’s point. It’s people like him who continue racism and sexism in America and the world and it’s the major reason why Black women resist dating/marrying white men.
For us, not dating a white man is liberating and empowering. For any nonblack person saying to any Black woman that’s racist is ignoring centuries of racist abuse toward Black women.
La Reyna
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BR says,
on Wed 10 Feb 2010 at 13:18:11 B. R.
It really is painful to read these lists of why white men are so undate worthy.
Since the late 60’s, any white man who thinks black American women are some easy sex kitten for them, must have been in a coma.
They would have to weave their way through a maze of complex psycological mind feilds only a glutten for pain would subject themselves to.
Americans are uptight about race and sex. I wouldnt waste an ounce of my time having to lift weights to negociate that mind feild any more.
You all can have it. Enjoy your racial devide as big as a 10 mac truck lane highway.
laromana says,
It’s BW (and NO ONE ELSE) who have had to carry a HISTORICAL burden of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that is/has been ACTIVELY promoted by American culture/media and has left many BW sad, hurt, angry, and DISPROPORTIONATELY alone (in comparison to NON-BW).
The quality of BW’s lives/relationships have been/are NEGATIVELY affected by the ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES that MANY WM/NON-BM continue to accept and that lead them to trash the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW by ONLY wanting to use them for sex, by dismissing them for SERIOUS DATING/MARRIAGE b/c they’re Black (ANTI-BW RACISM) or b/c they “fear” (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) what OTHERS “might say”.
It should come as no SURPRISE to ANYONE that BW want to find quality men of ANY RACE who will treat them as INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN worthy of love, dignity, and respect.
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I think inquiring commenting on individual posters’ sex lives is tacky and unnecessary, unless they offer that information up for discussion. That being said, it’s probably because I’m younger than the average blogger/blog audience for this topic (it seems like most blogs are directed at women in their 30s and deal more with the topic of marriage, unmarried black women, etc.), but I’ve never had to deal with the “deep” psychology behind IR relationships. Since I was a kid I’ve always attracted different types of guys (I think if I were to tally them I would find mostly White guys, then Black). I don’t date my boyfriend because he’s White or in spite of his Whiteness–I’m dating him because we have a lot of things in common (and honestly I’ve never gotten bored with him as I have with other potential suitors :-P). That may not be the case with all girls my age (or even most, I don’t know), but I know that growing up, in school and such popularity didn’t have a stereotypical racial attractiveness component. The most popular girls in middle school were always darker-skinned (probably because most Blacks are darker-skinned), and in high school our Homecoming King and Queen were a chubby White guy (think Jack Black) and a short Black girl (it’s harder to think of a celebrity doppleganger for her). An interracial couple wasn’t a shocker–Black girls with White guys, Black guys with White girls, and of course plenty of monorracial couples as well. I’m not saying the younger generation is w/o it’s hangups and stereotypes, but I know plenty of White guys my age who don’t view Black girls in a separate attractiveness category than White girls. I think younger people are getting away from the need for a distinct racial preference (i.e., I only like ____________ girls/guys) and getting into more “equal opportunity dating”, because we are shallow :-).
When you are young you can focus more on physical characteristics because you’ve yet to get to the point of looking for a life partner–most people just want someone to makeout with on a Saturday night. (Not my style, but hookups are an integral part of college culture.) In that sense, Black girls are seen as more “dateable” and White girls as “easy” (I would agree with OP–FG I think?–who said White girls seem to like the “slutty” label, but I would add that they only like it until it backfires, and the guy drops them for someone else.)
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Jasmine,
You are totally on point in your observations regarding how younger people view Black/White IRR’s and it’s encouraging to see this shift in thinking.
I’m older than you and can guarantee you that Black/White IRR’s were definitely viewed in a very NEGATIVE light when I was growing up. In the not to distant past, MOST WM/NON-BM treated BW in a VERY DISCRIMINATORY manner based SOLELY on the fact that they were Black. These WM/NON-BM didn’t think BW were “good enough” to SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY (ANTI-BW RACISM) or allowed their “fear of being seen by OTHERS with BW” (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) to stop them from SERIOULSY DATING/MARRYING BW .
What galls me is that these VERY SAME WM/NON-BM, who rejected BW for “acceptable WW/OTHER NON-WW” and had “acceptable WHITE/OTHER NON-WHITE children with them, and are now OLDER WM/NON-BM NOW (that they may be divorced, widowed, otherwise single) feel ENTITILED to pursue relationships with BW.
I believe strongly that this type of OLDER WM/NON-BM doesn’t DESERVE to be in ANY IRR with ANY BW (regardless of age) because of their PAST fundamentally DISRESPECTFUL/UNTRUSTWORTHY/RACIST/ANTI-BW attitudes and actions.
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Mira sez:
Because most of the women, for various of reasons, don’t want to be treated as “sluts”. Some of them know that they won’t get anything except for sex from most of the men.
Oh, my. Mira, do you realize what you just wrote and what it implies? You are saying that women believe that sex with men should result in their receiving something other than sexual pleasure. Oh, boy. There’s a name for a woman who believes that sex can be traded for other things and it’s not very complimentary. So it’s kind of hard for me to see why a woman who’s OK with acting like a whore would not want to be called a “slut”.
While they don’t necessarily find sex bad, delaying it for a while to make a man see them as fully human seem like a logical thing to do.
It would be logical if that’s what happens, but that’s not what happens.
A woman who reinforces the notion of a sexual double standard does not get more respect from her potential mate. She MAY, indeed, get seen as a better prospect for a wife by a sexist guy, but that guy’s going to go on being sexist and he’s not going to respect the woman for WHO she is, but rather for a false image she projects. And, as I mentioned above, there’s a better than even chance that if that sort of “respect” evolves into a serious relationship, the woman is going to find herself cheated on. Because that’s what thissort of traditional guys does and that’s how he thinks: “Wives are for raising a family. As long as I’m paying my family dues, she has no call to be upset if I’m boffing someone on the side”.
LORD! You have no idea how many times I’ve heard exactly that comment from men who went the extra mile to marry “respectable” women and not some “slut”.
Those women believe they have a lot to lose if men treat them as sluts. And it’s not just in their brain, Thad. That’s real. Society will treat them bad.
No, sorry, it’s in their brains Mira. They are bamboozled. Society is going to treat them badly AS WOMEN. Period. Being a “slut” isn’t going to help or hurt, one way or another. The world’s full of “good girls” who are now single parent moms and getting no help at all from society, for all that they avoided being a slut and married and kept their legs resolutely closed until they landed Prince Charming.
Check out global female poverty statistics, Mira, and get back to me about what you think women are gaining by playing along with this false double standard.
But, don’t they? Isn’t that what Abagond wanted to do with “black buck stereotype”? Isn’t that stereotype racist and wrong as any other?
Go to that posting, Mira, and compare how many black men are over there crying about lack of respect with how many black women are crying about the same over here. Yeah, the black buck stereotype is racist. No, most black men are not up in arms about a stereotype that casts them as sexual supermen. In fact, I’d say probably more black men make use of that stereotype than reject it.
The risk is being with a man who is a sexist. I don’t want to be with a man who thinks women are sluts!
Agreed!
But what I don’t get is how playing to the “good respectable girl” stereotype get’s you out of that position. It seems to me that doing what most of the women here say one should do (i.e. not have sex on the first date so that he will “respect” you) actually INCREASES your chance of being with a sexist guy.
Think it through, Mira: if the guy’s not sexist, he’s not going to care if you have sex with him right off the bat. He’s going to be looking at different things. He may BLOODY well care about you trying to manipulate his feelings, however, which is what – in the final analysis – these sort of two-bit Cosmopolitan “catch you a man” strategies are all about.
Now, if he IS a sexist and thinks you’re a slut, you’ve found out right away and can ditch his a$$ and move on. Correct?
So explain it to me again, please: how does acting “respectable” innoculate you from being with a sexist guy?
I’ve seen some reasonably intelligent people engage in pretty random one night stands. Incredibly random…
Note that I said “intelligent AND sexually free”. The kind of people who’ll have sex with just anyone because they are bored are usually not sexually free in my mind. And again, this is much more likely to happen with drunken “good girls” than it is with avowed sluts who know what they want and don’t need to dumb down their brain with three gallons of beer in order to turn off their guilt complexes in order to get it.
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jasmin
I like your post. I just want to say, I went to an integrated grade school and high school. We elected a Black woman homecoming queen and a chubby white guy as king. I took a Black woman to the prom .
That was in 1967.
Your post just made me realise how lucky to be raised in an integrated system. Nothing guarentees racial harmony or lack of devision. But i just feel lucky to have been in an integrated school situation that doesnt sound too much differant than yours, all the way now into 2010.
laromona sais :”The quality of BW’s lives/relationships have been/are NEGATIVELY affected by the ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES that MANY WM/NON-BM continue to accept and that lead them to trash the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW by ONLY wanting to use them for sex, by dismissing them for SERIOUS DATING/MARRIAGE b/c they’re Black (ANTI-BW RACISM) or b/c they “fear” (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) what OTHERS “might say”. ”
I sure wont deny that the media has been really negative to Black female beauty in the past. I think you can find many positive Black female examples in the media today compared with before.
But that doesnt address what i said at all. If you have this list in your head of all the white man did to wrong you , you never will be able to see the white man that might be able to see you for what you are.
Most white men dont go hitting on black women. I do find black woman very attractive and sexy and I have always had relationships and sex with black women since i started dating women.My virginity was taken by a black woman. Yet, to be classified as someone with a fetish or jungle fever, or, who only want sex , it just is short sighted .
I was married to a black woman from the now gone Roosevelt Taylor Homes progects in Chicago. Ive had many relationships with black woman in my life as well as all races. I am now married to a black woman from another country and live in that country. Yet i see on here a dumb stereo type for what Im suposed to fit into , based on that , even.
Im just backed into the corner every way you look by the stereo types of what white men are suposed to be to black American women on here.
No ,take your stereo types and keep them for you alls selves, I dont care about them at all. Americans are uptight about race and sex, and , I got the heck away from that a long time ago and never have looked back.Id rather deal with anti Americanism than the black white devide in the U.S.A. So you keep your stereo types . Make all the assumptions , generalisations and rationalisations you want , hold onto them and take them to your grave. But im so happy to not have to lift those weights anymore.
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ABAGOND SAID: “Overall, if you are a black women who prefers to date white men or other non-black men, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you are a black women who prefers black men, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you do not care, more power to you. That is my take on it.”
Amen!!
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Men are men – they all have sex on the brain.
Yes they are designed to point and shoot! Carry on!
Herneith sez:
Thad, you sound like a man-hater!
Thad, I was joking. That is what men are designed for! However, society shapes their sexuality. Is it good or bad? Depends on the person.
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wow, a lot of comments! i know i’m going to repeat a lot of what has already been said but as this is something that’s been on my mind lately, i’ll put my two cents in anyway.
white men love to say things that they think are compliments when it’s either a) offensive, b) fetishizing, c) oblivious, or d) all of the above. i’ve gotten everything from suggestive comments about my lips, to admiration of my “curvy body”, to flat out, “wow you’re the first black GIRL i’ve ever found attractive”–not acknowledging the fact that i am an adult just like him. there’s been more, but that pretty much covers the bases, i think. sometimes it’s nice to get a compliment, and i definitely know when something is a comment and when i’m being made to feel like other and/or an experiment to be tried out and thrown away.
i’ve only ever had a couple of white men old enough to be my father hit on me, and while it happens between men who are black and white, there is something extra creepy about it when they’re white. it’s like you said in your post–they have their kids, get divorced, live an “acceptably white life”, and then decide that i, at 19, should want to date them when they’re FORTY-SEVEN. My father is 52!
a lot of the guys who hit on me are my age or a bit older–not too much to make it creepy, but i can’t count how many times i’ve gotten, “i’ve always wanted to be with a black girl…” or “wow you’re hot and black, that’s cool” or “do you like white guys? do you prefer them to black guys?” as if it’s some kind of competition or they need their ego boosted. i also find it funny how they constantly say “black girls” as if i am not equal or fully a woman to them, but someone below them and almost a child.
i also get the “exception” thing when it comes to how i act and talk. “oh, you’re so nice and shy like a lot of the other (see: non-black) girls i’ve dated” as if they expected some me to be some living, breathing stereotype (kind of #1).
i can completely understand why black women wouldn’t want to date white men because of stuff like this. it’s a MINEFIELD, and it can make someone feel like crap to always have to read into something (am i being objectified? does he see me only as an object? was this compliment loaded?) even before you’ve barely gotten each other’s names.
my comment isn’t as eloquent as i’d like it to be, but i hope i conveyed what i was trying to say. i look forward to reading all of the comments and experiences when i have more time.
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Americans are so uptight about sex and race …
Be happy with your positions on dating white males because i am sure happy with mine about dating black women , and, happy to be far away from this mentality.
This thing about being uptight about white males because of what happened in slavery is really strange.
How many white males in North America had a hand in raping a black slave ? I had relatives who worked on the underground railroad helping slaves escape to freedom.
Most white American males are boring as hell , though.
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Thad, give it a rest. You’re not a woman, so you don’t know what its like, so stop judging people and trying to impose your own ideas on other people.
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“Again, I ask you: why? Unless of course you buy into the whole falsly moral game of female sexual exclusiveness in the first place.”
and stop acting as if there is something wrong with sexual exclusiveness. Ask any health professional and they won’t have a problem with sexual exclusiveness, so get over it already its not hurting anyone.
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You are right. I am white and I had a white guy tell me that he can only date women who aren’t white. That must mean he just loves the color of the skin, not the person inside.
Some men just want good sex with a pretty girl and don’t really even think about the issues of racial etiquette. When you are with someone for the long haul, race is an issue that has to be discussed, so that intentions and views are clear.
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You’re Right wrote:
“”You are right. I am white and I had a white guy tell me that he can only date women who aren’t white. That must mean he just loves the color of the skin, not the person inside.
Some men just want good sex with a pretty girl and don’t really even think about the issues of racial etiquette. When you are with someone for the long haul, race is an issue that has to be discussed, so that intentions and views are clear.”
BINGO!
_______________________________________________
La Reyna
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B.R. said:
“Yet i see on here a dumb stereo type for what Im suposed to fit into , based on that , even.
Im just backed into the corner every way you look by the stereo types of what white men are suposed to be to black American women on here.”
The post is about why SOME black women do not prefer to date SOME white men. Further, several of the black women who have commented on this thread are with or have been with white men.
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@Bs:
Why do you care as to what is being said? If you are happily married to a black women in another country, bully for you. Why the hostility? They have qualified their observations as their own experiences, yet you feel the need to deride the commentors. It’s like you are pissed off because some black women choose not to date white men, like it’s personal. You fit the descriptions of #s’ 7, 8, and 10 especially. There are many more reasons why some black women choose not to date white men, so what, what bearing does it have on your reality? You state you are married. It’s not as if you are going to date or marry any of these women. Baffling. There are black women who date white men, asian men, non-American black men, etc, so what? What it comes down to is choice. Whatever happened to “Live and let Live”?
Leaveumthinking…. You should be ashamed of yourself. You re a pure racist. Most wm are cowards? You’re a ignoramus. You’re entire list is based on stereotypes, assumptions and racist, anti-white beliefs held by far left wing nuts like yourself. You’re a very hateful person. You wouldn’t like it if people said those things about black women. You should grow up and view people on an individual basis.
Another angry tirade. Anything you may have said is completely negated as you feel the need to refer to people as ‘ignoramus’ and ‘far left wing nuts’. Where do the politics come in? I bet dollars to donuts that the commentors come from many different political perspectives. As for saying ‘things’ about black women, that’s been going on for centuries under various guises according to the historical period. Same sheet, different toilet bowl. Talk about flipping the script when calling these commentors ‘racist’. Like I asked the above commentor Bs, what is it exactly that is teeing you off? Were you planning on dating and, or, marrying some of them? Your hostility is palpable! If a black woman wishes to date whatever man exclusively, for whatever reason, good or bad, according to whatever informs and shapes their outlook, they can do as they will. Black women are individuals not monoliths. They can do what they want according to their own druthers. You nor any other man will gainsay them!
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So black men shouldn’t date white women then because of the history with black men and white women and being hanged and what not for looking at a white girls direction…
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Peanut sez:
Thad, give it a rest. You’re not a woman, so you don’t know what its like, so stop judging people and trying to impose your own ideas on other people.
😀 😀 😀 😀
Ah, yes. The old identity arguement. The last resort of one who doesn’t have a logical leg to stand on.
First of all, Peanut, you may not have noticed, but women spend a lot of time talking about the dilema I describe above. Everything I have said regarding women and the double standard, up to now, HAS COME STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF A WOMAN, usually a feminist thinker (often, but not exclusively, Angela Davis or Camille Paglia).
So don’t cry to me about my lack of understanding if you don’t like those points, sister. I’m just the messenger repeating what other women have said.
But beyond that, sexism is a two-sided dilema which includes women AND men. So if you’re saying I can’t possibly know anything about how it works or feels because I’m a man, the same holds true for you as a woman.
In fact, Peanut, if we’re going to buy the bulls%¨& that no one can understand an experience unless they are a carbon copy of the person who lived it, this entire post by you is BS. Most of your “points” above tell us why white men supposedly do what they do, not what you SEE them doing or how it makes you feel as a black woman: you quite obviously feel you KNOW, personally, what it is to be white and male.
And how could you possibly know why the do what they do if you’re not a white man? (Presuming we take your argument about how one can and can’t “know” something seriously, that is, which I certainly don’t). 😀
So please, Peanut. It’s quite obvious that you don’t believe what you’re saying. If you did, you wouldn’t be spending so much time here telling us about whites and men.
If you don’t like what I’m saying, fine. But hell, use logic to refute it, not some namby-pamby, threadbare rhetorical trick which you yourself obviously don’t hold to.
As for “imposing my ideas”, perish the thought!
This is a public forum created to DISCUSS the very things that you bring up. You wrote a post. Great! We are discussing it. Not all of us agree with everything you say. You have no cause to complain about that if you’re the one who got up on the soapbox in the first place. If your ideas have logical holes in them, then that’s going to be pointed out and whining about it does neither you nor your ideas any justice.
Now, I happen to agree with a lot of what you’ve said. What I DISAGREE with is the conclusion that some posters have come to above: to wit, black men are somehow “nicer” than white men or don’t think about sex when they invite a woman on a date.
Given your illogical belief that “only an X person can speak about the experience of X people”, I would think that the fact that I am white and a man would mean that you’d be the first person to agree with me when I talk about why white men and men in general do what they do.
But that’s not the case, is it? Guess that “X people” crap only works when it works for YOU. No one can speak about your subjective experience, Peanut, but you feel free to tell us about everyone else’s, huh? 😀
And I’m the one who’s imposing his views….? 😀 😀
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L
So black men shouldn’t date white women then because of the history with black men and white women and being hanged and what not for looking at a white girls direction…
Black men can date whoever they choose. White women can date whoever they choose. For whatever reasons they have it’s THEIR choice. Just like whatever reasons some black women have NOT to date white men it’s THEIR choice.
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Abagond , the title is noted, im addressing the lists…
Hernia , this is a blog . I read these opinions and I want to address them , because they are very common thinking in racialy devided America today.If people are going to put forth some really narrow minded thinking about white males, I am happy to give my opinion , since I did grew up American in racialy devided America…if you dont like it, ban me from this blog.
With all the great things that came out of the Civil Rights Movement, there was a lot of dogma that lingers to this day.
Like black American woman shouldnt date a white man because of slavery and rape. It should be jetisoned like tap dancing was for uncle toms. Its a logic full of holes.
Some one even tried to say if a white guy goes with a black woman from another country he has hang ups.
You are even trying to put me in a trick bag saying i seem to fit in 7.8.and 10 on these bs lists, you are talking bs , hernia ( see , abagond, these damn lists).
And , I also said, be happy with your philosophies, so Im not condemning any one who feels this way (but , there is nothing wrong with pointing out the holes in some of these points) . Go ahead and have it , and Im very happy to tell you I am very far from having to deal from that way of thinking.
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@Br
Her name is Herneith. Get her name right before stating your bs opinions.
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What?!? I didn’t know he was married. That’s sad. I have nothing against two unmarried people living together, it’s their life, but if he’s married… ugh! I don’t like the situation.
Though I don’t think he’s much older than her, is he?
And he has such a nice name, too bad he’s doing this.
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Am I the only one turned off by men who claim all men really want is sex…as if I don’t already have to deal with that?
There is a part of it the seems to say ” look , I have a penis , all I want to do is bone and that should be understood”.
No more lectures, please!!!
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LOL.
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I wonder why Black men in general have no problems dating/marrying White women, but Black women (especially Black American women) come up with so many “lists” on why they cannot date/marry White men.
As far as I can see, there are some White men who make excellent marriage material, just like there are some Black men who make excellent marriage material. Interracial relationships between BW and WM are not as scarce as some of you are making them out to be – especially in my neck of the woods (Southern Maryland/DC/Northern Virginia).
If you don’t want to date a non-Black man fine. I don’t see how what other Black women do affects me, so I loved the last paragraph of Abagond’s post.
LIVE AND LET LIVE Folks! Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, etc., is over.
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Asada sez:
Am I the only one turned off by men who claim all men really want is sex…as if I don’t already have to deal with that?
There is a part of it the seems to say ” look , I have a penis , all I want to do is bone and that should be understood”.
Gee, Asada, and here I was hoping you’d get turned on. [roll eyes]
You might want to contemplate the idea that some men really don’t want your approval or understanding and that all men certainly don’t need it.
As for me, my point is that you’re living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think that any straight man who asks you out is not thinking about sex.
That’s a very simply point, but apparently either you can’t grasp or find it so threatening that you have to turn it into a parody in order to dismiss it.
Either way, the problem’s entirely your own.
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I wonder why Black men in general have no problems dating/marrying White women, but Black women (especially Black American women) come up with so many “lists” on why they cannot date/marry White men.
I wrote about that here and would be happy to hear your opinion, Patricia.
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/black-women-and-white-men.html
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Patricia Kayden
I wonder why Black men in general have no problems dating/marrying White women, but Black women (especially Black American women) come up with so many “lists” on why they cannot date/marry White men.
As far as I can see, there are some White men who make excellent marriage material, just like there are some Black men who make excellent marriage material. Interracial relationships between BW and WM are not as scarce as some of you are making them out to be – especially in my neck of the woods (Southern Maryland/DC/Northern Virginia).
If you don’t want to date a non-Black man fine. I don’t see how what other Black women do affects me, so I loved the last paragraph of Abagond’s post.
LIVE AND LET LIVE Folks! Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, etc., is over.
Amen to that!
it’s like BW are always told that they should be weary of WM because of ‘the past’ lol but to hell with that when it comes to their own personal history when it comes to the white wimenz, then it’s all ‘good’.
it’s like all those pan africans lol they preach black but when it comes to marrying and sexing, it’s all white.
dumb hypocrits.
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“I wonder why Black men in general have no problems dating/marrying White women, but Black women (especially Black American women) come up with so many “lists” on why they cannot date/marry White men.”
I agree. With this thinking,black men have it made because they have all of the loyalty directed at them without any return.
And why is it that black women write songs honoring black men (Angies Stones song Brother)? Where are the songs honoring black women? That has always bothered me.
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B.R.:
I deleted your comment because you continue to call Herneith “Hernia” even after your mistake was pointed out.
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So, if I show PDA towards my wife, will I also be accused of “groping” her, given that I’m white and she’s black and given that she looks ten years younger than me?
I realize that this isn’t the issue entirely with Campbell/Doronin, but nevertheless…
Seems to me that if I show PDA, I’ll be accused of not “respecting” her. If I DON’T show PDA, I’ll be accused of not treating her as I would a white woman.
Seems to me there’s no way out. Peoples’ prejudices are going to be set against us no matter what we do.
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most black men that I have met are like dogs- rude and disrespectful. I’ve had black men hiss at me in street and push themselves onto me. I’ve had black men hit on me then when I say no just move onto my friend etc.
in comparison white men have treated me nicer and been more respectful.
just to add this is obviously drawn from my own personal experience- I do not claim all black men are like this.
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Patricia,
I wonder why Black men in general have no problems dating/marrying White women, but Black women (especially Black American women) come up with so many “lists” on why they cannot date/marry White men.
I was just reading this morning about some comments made by the musician John Mayer. He is actually one of my favorite artists, or was, but his comments have almost completely turned me off from his music. And they serve as a perfect example of why a black woman would be hesitant to date a white man:
“Mayer told Playboy that he has not been open to the sexual advances of the black women who so adore him: “My d*** is sort of like a white supremacist. I’ve got a Benetton heart and a f*****’ David Duke c***. I’m going to start dating separately from my d***.”
It’s not, he insisted, that black women aren’t attractive — especially if they act white.
“Every white dude loved Hilary from ‘The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.’ Kerry Washington. She’s superhot, and she’s also white-girl crazy,” he said. “Kerry Washington would break your heart like a white girl. Just all of a sudden she’d be like, ‘Yeah, I sucked his d***. Whatever.’ And you’d be like, ‘What? We weren’t talking about that.'”
His comments are only slightly more detestable than similar comments I’ve heard from other “average white guys.” These types of comments are par for the course, and they seem to be in awe when someone takes offense to it. No one wants to date someone that has that kind of mindset or makes comments such as his, for obvious reasons. Black women have to take extra precautions when dating white men — they have to make sure they know the man and his views inside and out, or they might end of with a John Mayer.
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Here’s the article that quote was taken from:
http://www.popeater.com/2010/02/10/john-mayer-loves-black-women/
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john mayer’s comments are disgraceful.
but I’ve heard lots of black guys talking in similar or worse ways.
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@Natasha
““Every white dude loved Hilary from ‘The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.’ Kerry Washington. She’s superhot, and she’s also white-girl crazy,” he said.”
LOL. I was thinking about mentioning on another of these threads that a girl like Hilary would likely be quite successful in the white dating market.
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Lucia, I have as well. But black men degrading black women isn’t what this topic is about. Maybe another time.
FG, yes, the “Hilarys” of the world are very popular with white men, in my experience. Hmmm… I wonder why.
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Naomi should be blamed as well. She should not be with a married man.
Thad,
Most black women tend to look younger. So, I’m not sure if people have an issue with your PDA in terms of that. People don’t like PDA in general.
Lucia,
Sorry that you’ve had those experiences. I’ve been in the hip-hop fashion/black men magazine industries and couldn’t deal with it. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff that I’ve seen. And yes, black men are a little more aggressive and less selective (in some cases), BUT, I think a lot of men in general are.
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Wow, I didn’t know John Mayer was like that! I couldn’t believe his comments.
Its almost as bad as Scott Bio who tweeted that he doesn’t see how Obama could wake up to that (Michelle) every morning. And they should a bad picture of her.
I love Hillary, she’s my favorite. I know that a lot of white guys might like that look.
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Hernia , this is a blog . I read these opinions and I want to address them , because they are very common thinking in racialy devided America today.If people are going to put forth some really narrow minded thinking about white males, I am happy to give my opinion , since I did grew up American in racialy devided America…if you dont like it, ban me from this blog.
Hernia, LOL, touche! At least you have a sense of humour! As for ‘putting forth some narrow minded thinking about white males’, the reverse has been going on for centuries in regards to black men. They have been treated as one entity as opposed to individuals. Yet when white men are the brunt of stereotypes you don’t like it. I would be interested on your views of black men being stereotyped. You grew up in a racially divided America and got out, great! As for banning you, this is not my blog so I do-not have the authority to do so, nor would I want to. The comments are revealing in so many ways, it’s good to read them whether I agree with them or not.
With all the great things that came out of the Civil Rights Movement, there was a lot of dogma that lingers to this day.
What dogma?
Like black American woman shouldnt date a white man because of slavery and rape. It should be jetisoned like tap dancing was for uncle toms. Its a logic full of holes.
Some people say this. For every black person who says this, there are tenfold white people who say the exact same things as to why blacks shouldn’t marry whites period. Given this, why get upset when a black person gives their own reasons and backs it up with their own personal experiences and a historical backdrop? Have you ever considered the power imbalance in American society? Slavery has been over a long time, however the lingering effects are still felt. Did you think these effects would just go away overnight? Do you think when things are abolished in general so are any lingering effects? What’s tap dancing got to do with black women dating whoever?
Some one even tried to say if a white guy goes with a black woman from another country he has hang ups
Maybe some do and maybe some don’t. There are men of all races who go to ‘another country’ and end up marrying a woman from there. The problems derive from those who do so based on some perceived stereotypes. People will do what they do for good or ill.
You are even trying to put me in a trick bag saying i seem to fit in 7.8.and 10 on these bs lists, you are talking bs , hernia ( see , abagond, these damn lists).
If the shoe fits wear it.
And , I also said, be happy with your philosophies, so Im not condemning any one who feels this way (but , there is nothing wrong with pointing out the holes in some of these points) .
What philosophies, I aint Plato or Socrates. I have stated unequivocally, that it is up to the individual who they choose to date or marry. People have their reasons. As for holes in other commentor’s points, your points have more holes than Swiss cheese. As I wrote before, why not comment on the majority of whites who state the reverse? They can give you unending lists as to why they will not date or marry black people, I would be interested in how you would approach them.
Go ahead and have it , and Im very happy to tell you I am very far from having to deal from that way of thinking.
Have what?
@abagond:
You should do a post on the oft refrain “But slavery is over!”, without taking into account the devastating and lingering effects if you haven’t done so already. This seems to be a common argument when black people bring it up.
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islandgirl,
Wow, I didn’t know John Mayer was like that! I couldn’t believe his comments.
Neither did I. It’s pretty surprising. Apparently he’s made other such racialized comments in the past and has been branded a [not so closet] racist by blacks and whites alike.
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Natasha sorry if you find a little off topic but i mention this because everyone seems to say that white men treat them worse but thats not my experience
I honestly don’t why I have encountered so many black men with bad attitudes- it makes me sad. Its obviously not because they are black why they act like that so am thinking is the rap and hiphop industry?
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Most black women tend to look younger. So, I’m not sure if people have an issue with your PDA in terms of that. People don’t like PDA in general.
Correction: AMERICANS have trouble with PDA.
Let’s face it folks: the U.S. has some major issues when it comes to sex.
P.R. does bring up an interesting point:
Why does the rape of slave women by whites supposedly prevent interracial relationships today while the rape of women by men, in general, is hand waved away as an “individual thing”?
I mean, many black women here have made the point that because some white slaveowner raped a black woman in the 1800s, said black woman won’t date some Jewish kid from the Bronx whose ancestors made it over here in 1905.
OK, fine.
But why doesn’t that same logic go for men in general? Why aren’t all the women who are ethnic purists here also not raving lesbians? Because, let’s face it: many more X men have raped X women (where X = any color you like) than non-X men have raped X women. Your chance of being raped is something like nine to one in favor of the rapist being the same color as you.
So why not simply give up MEN in general?
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“Wow, I didn’t know John Mayer was like that! I couldn’t believe his comments.
Its almost as bad as Scott Bio who tweeted that he doesn’t see how Obama could wake up to that (Michelle) every morning. And they should a bad picture of her.”
Response:
why is michelle judges so much on her looks. She’s a first-lady, compared to the others we’ve had she’s pretty attractive. She’s fit, dresses well and has nice skin. That just goes to show that no matter what some bw do, they’ll always be perceived as the bottom by people. It’s like to eb considered even average attractive for a bw you have to be flawless and way above the looks of other women. whereas non-bw can be avg/below avg. looks and still get the same and better respect than the gorgeous bw…
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…or, to put it another way, a rapist has a 90% chance of being the same color as the victim, but there’s a 99.99% chance that the rapist is male.
Seems to me men are the bigger problem here.
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“Why does the rape of slave women by whites supposedly prevent interracial relationships today while the rape of women by men, in general, is hand waved away as an “individual thing”?”
That has nothing to do w/ why most of the bw I know don’t date white men. It’s their racial prejudices of today that are the issue
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S#$%, I’ll stand with Peanut on this one. Michelle Obama is one classy-looking woman! Who the hell would they rather have? Nancy Reagan? Barbara @#$ing Bush..? 8:
Hilary was pretty hot, too, but Michelle beats her ass like a bass drum in the looks department. I’ll go with Hilary for the brains, however. That said, Michelle is probably the second smartest first lady since Elanor Roosevelt, at least.
No doubt at all that any complaints about Michelle in this sense are pure racist bullsh%$.
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Lucia,
Natasha sorry if you find a little off topic but i mention this because everyone seems to say that white men treat them worse but thats not my experience.
There are separate issues to address concerning the two groups of men. Which are worse depends on your perspective.
I honestly don’t why I have encountered so many black men with bad attitudes- it makes me sad. Its obviously not because they are black why they act like that so am thinking is the rap and hiphop industry?
I do think a cultural overhaul might be in order, but that is completely a whole new topic. If and when it ever comes up, I’ll be one of the first to comment.
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“It’s like to eb considered even average attractive for a bw you have to be flawless and way above the looks of other women. whereas non-bw can be avg/below avg. looks and still get the same and better respect than the gorgeous bw…”
That’s pretty sad.
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That has nothing to do w/ why most of the bw I know don’t date white men. It’s their racial prejudices of today that are the issue.
Yes and no, Peanut. This ALWAYS comes up when BW/WM relationships are discussed. It’s come up in the discussion above a few times already.
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“Hilary was pretty hot, too, but Michelle beats her ass like a bass drum in the looks department.”
I wouldn’t go that far. Hillary is very pretty. But Michelle is very classy and well put together.
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What dogma?
Isn’t she the mother of all dogs? Y’know, the canine Virgin Mary…?
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yeah and talking of michelle obama.. she is so fashion and strong.. I love her 🙂
I just think lot of people have a probelm with her because she doesn’t fit a stereotype. she is the classiest first lady since Jackie O.
all the people that criticize her looks where were you when laura bush was first lady? because no offense she ugly with no style.
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IG sez:
I wouldn’t go that far. Hillary is very pretty.
C’mon. Just compare their legs alone. Hell, compare their legs back when Hil was Michelle’s age.
All I can say is that, consulting my man-o-meter (putting aside all race and class differences and the obvious fact that neither of these two women would ever even give me the time of day), I’d ask Michelle Obama out for a date on looks alone whereas when it comes to Hilary… Well, she’d better have a winning personality. 😀
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Laura Bush. Erg.
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What I loved about Hillary is that it was so obvious that she was smarter than her husband and that Bill didn’t have any problems with this.
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Thad,
Oh, I thought you were talking about “Hiliary Banks” from the Fresh Prince.
Yes, in that case, Michelle wins hands down.
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LOL! Never watched “Fresh Prince” and haven’t a clue as to who Hilary Banks is. 😀
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“Sorry that you’ve had those experiences. I’ve been in the hip-hop fashion/black men magazine industries and couldn’t deal with it. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff that I’ve seen. And yes, black men are a little more aggressive and less selective (in some cases), BUT, I think a lot of men in general are”- island girl
Yes I do think I am a little simplistic in my approach.. its more than race factor, class etc. comes into it.
btw you look so pretty in your picture! if you didn’t mind me asking are you model?
mayber i shouldn’t divulge this much so i can keep some anon.. but basically I once did a shoot with a somewhat little know hiphop personality – he was horrible and its put me off rap. (btw I wasn’t a trashy girl just a model- it was the first rap thing I ever did).
now i am married and I quit modelling. I hate the industry so much.
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“Ah, yes. The old identity arguement. The last resort of one who doesn’t have a logical leg to stand on.
First of all, Peanut, you may not have noticed, but women spend a lot of time talking about the dilema I describe above. Everything I have said regarding women and the double standard, up to now, HAS COME STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF A WOMAN, usually a feminist thinker (often, but not exclusively, Angela Davis or Camille Paglia).
So don’t cry to me about my lack of understanding if you don’t like those points, sister. I’m just the messenger repeating what other women have said.”
Response:
Hey, Thad…I don’t care. I’m not your sister, so don’t ever call me that either…
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Fine. No problem.
But how about you, in return, not making these whacko statements like “You can’t understand X because you aren’t X” when you yourself seem to believe that you know all there is to know about, say, white men?
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Lucia,
Thanks! Yes until I moved from NYC. What kind of modeling did you do (besides rap)? Where you degraded?
Don’t get me started on that industry! I’ve seen the most disgusting trash.
Once, I was approached by one of the top four hip hop lines to model. At their office, they had a “look” book of women. One book had women with their butts to the camera and sometimes they turned their face to the camera, sometimes it was just a butt shot. Those were women just there to (expletive). The other book was one of actual models. They were looking through the book and their comments were disgusting.
Then, while at a go see for the top black men’s magazines. They had all of the women strip down to their underwear and hang out. So there was a room full of half naked women and the owner who looked like a kid in a candy store just leering. I walked out.
They totally objectify women. Those women may as well been blow up dolls for all they care. That’s why we cannot blame white men, because it’s much worse coming from our own. They should realize that we are more than just “butts”.
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I’d ask Michelle Obama out for a date on looks alone whereas when it comes to Hilary… Well, she’d better have a winning personality.
So, winning personality could make a man want to have sex with a woman?
That puts the whole “nice guys” and “thinking only about sex” into a totally different perceptive!
@Natasha W
I had no idea John Mayer was racist! Ok, I admit, I never thought about the guy, but in this interview, at least, he seems like a completely brainwashed guy.
But, is it just him? Or do majority of white men think like that? That is disturbing.
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*perspective
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Herneith….(abagond, its your blog, Heneith calls me bs and i tease her back calling her hernia and you censor my post, its hard to participate on here if you are going to tie my hands behind my back. )
My veiws on stereo types on black males ? Well i find them more offending and I am more troubled and angry at continuing white racism in the USA than anything said here about white males.
When people say American blacks are racist, I know they are really just back peddling (not that they cant make racist statements, but, the obsticles from slavery until today have been so immense its more of a defensive position than offensive position). Its hard to blame an American black person from feeling alianated from society today .Unemployment in the black community is worse than ever. Lots of white people in America are as racist as ever, but ,there are a whole lot who arnt.
I always found there are lots of people in the grey area about race , and that is where I always tried to gravitate to, the people in society who arnt so black and white about race relations.
My comments were censored , but, I said I cant defend at all any statements people on here have said white men have made. They sound dumb and stupid , like this John Meyor. Amd i think the average white American male is boring. Just look at pop white American culture today, horrendous.
I also said (and was censored )that the damage done by slavery lingers in society today and needs to be addressed. But i still think it should have nothing to do with desicians about dating.
There are a lot of bad men all over, you just have to have your antenna up for the good ones. And i have no problem if a woman sais ” I just am not attracted to white men, they arnt my type..” than bringing up a litany of acuasations of what is wrong with white males.
Civil Rights era dogma ? How about tap dancing is shucking and jiving for the white man. How about Louis Armstrong was an uncle tom. How about all white men are devils (at least read until the end of Malcoms auto bio).
Abagond, you made a mistake to censor my comments out of hypocracy, since i was being called bs. I have to think if I really want to participate on your blog. And i bring a lot of experiance and knowledge to the plate , so you loose a lot if i bow out…you may not think so, and that is no sweat off my back. I guess for some reason, my point of veiw might be threatening to you….becuae your reason for blocking my post was hypocritical
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the difference is i’m not speaking for white men i’m speaking about bw…lol the title was “why some white women prefer not to date some wm” i then went on to explain that from MY (a black woman’s) perspective
so i dont’ get the relevance of ur comment, it just came off as condescending
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islandgirl says,
That’s why we cannot blame white men, because it’s much worse coming from our own. They should realize that we are more than just “butts”.
laromana says,
I don’t consider ANTI-BW BM who DISRESPECT them every chance they get “our own”. I don’t EVER want to be associated with these MISOGYNISTIC, STUPID, SELF HATERS.
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*why some black women prefer not to date some wm*
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Mira,
But, is it just him? Or do majority of white men think like that? That is disturbing.”
No, it’s not just him. As I said above, I’ve heard similar comments from white guys. Those are just “average white guy” comments, in my experience, albeit a little more explicit.
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Islandgirl, i did commercial modelling and beauty pageant mostly.
I hated modelling- it was so degrading. I was constantly being asked to lose weight (even though I am already slim- a us size 2/4). Its like they didn’t want me to be a woman, they wanted a prepubscent boy.
the rap video I did was really my first modelling job that weight was not a issue- but the artist was terrible. basically he expected me to have sex with him. and yes I saw many of the things you mention.
luckily I met my wonderful DH not long after – I quit , and I started a family 🙂
I always thought modelling was a a dream and a fantasy life.. but seriously forget that am so much happier to be with my family and earn my degree
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Mira sez:
So, winning personality could make a man want to have sex with a woman?
That puts the whole “nice guys” and “thinking only about sex” into a totally different perceptive!
Remember that I categorized Hillary as hot, first: just not as hot as Michelle.
Also remember that I am not very typical when it comes to male behavior. I’d say I’m in the 1 to maybe 10% of het males who ARE in fact looking for something else when they go on dates – though sex is definitely up there on my list.
Why is this?
I think it was because I was raised in a 100% female household and that was the way I was socialized. The same reason why I’m one of the few guys I know who isn’t even subconsciously worried about the size of his genitals. No older brothers or adult males in the house to bend me that way.
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the only thing that bothered me about the John Mayer comments (i’m not that familiar w/ him btw) was the comment about the ones who “act white.” the other stuff seemed to just be his stupidity rolling off his tongue.
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Peanut sez:
the difference is i’m not speaking for white men i’m speaking about bw…lol the title was “why some white women prefer not to date some wm” i then went on to explain that from MY (a black woman’s) perspective
Fine. So you think it’s appropriate then to tell you to shut up – as you told me – because your perspective on this is worthless because you’re not a white male?
Or would you stand by the proposition -as your original article seems to indicate – that it is indeed possible to have something worthwhile to say about people who are not yourself?
Can’t have it both ways, Peanut.
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the only thing that bothered me about the John Mayer comments (i’m not that familiar w/ him btw) was the comment about the ones who “act white.” the other stuff seemed to just be his stupidity rolling off his tongue.
Well, hell, Peanut, read the posts above: how many black women posting here have talked about “acting white” in the exact same way Mayer did?
I mean, it’s all stupidity to me, but I’m having a hard time seeing why we should hate a white trash rocker bunny for saying the same things that are considered to be pondered wisdom on race and gender when they come out of a black woman’s mouth.
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” look , I have a penis , all I want to do is bone and that should be understood”.
Where can I find a man like that? LOL! Most of the ones I know suffer from sexual dysfunction, hahaha! I have to stop dating those octogenarians and nonagenarians!
@BR
Thank you for clarifying some of the points I asked you to. Sorry for calling you bs, but I couldn’t resist, after all I am a she-devil at heart, LOL!
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They can’t understand why Obama, a successful man, married a full black woman. That’s why Michelle Obama is attacked. They are angry that the First Lady is not a reflection of the eurocentric beauty standard. She’s well-built, statuesque, intelligent, well-dressed so they attack her facial features because she defies all other stereotypes. Men have always stooped to this level when they can’t find something wrong with a woman. They can be cowards.
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anonygirl says,
i also get the “exception” thing when it comes to how i act and talk. “oh, you’re so nice and shy like a lot of the other (see: non-black) girls i’ve dated” as if they expected some me to be some living, breathing stereotype (kind of #1).
i can completely understand why black women wouldn’t want to date white men because of stuff like this. it’s a MINEFIELD, and it can make someone feel like crap to always have to read into something (am i being objectified? does he see me only as an object? was this compliment loaded?) even before you’ve barely gotten each other’s names.
my comment isn’t as eloquent as i’d like it to be, but i hope i conveyed what i was trying to say. i look forward to reading all of the comments and experiences when i have more time.
laromana says,
anonygirl,
Thanks for your excellent comments. Your analysis of the day to day behaviour BW have to deal with and why this might lead them to be hesitant to date WM is so on point.
I wish MORE WM could be HONEST about the MANY ways they DON’T treat BW respectfully or expect BW to put up with being approached as “STEREOTYPES” instead of INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN (like WW/OTHER NON-WW).
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Shame on those black women who threw themselves at John Mayer. They had to have been either teenagers or women with low IQs.
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Shani, yes they can understand! He married Michelle as part of his plans to run for POTUS. Obviously he needed to marry a black woman to gain the support of blacks! 🙂
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It boggles the mind that people can think this way, are they that stoopid? From what I have read of Obama’s life, he married this woman before he had aspirations to the presidency. Talk about lunacy and paranoia. This sounds like something out of a crappily written dime novel/thriller! How do you get those smilies?
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Herneith, obviously he didn’t just wake up one day and say “I want to be president.” That takes years of planning and forethought. 😉
[For smilies, just type them out with your keyboard and they appear when you submit the comment. Like for the wink, just hit the semicolon and the right round bracket keys… ; ) without the space.]
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I wish MORE WM could be HONEST about the MANY ways they DON’T treat BW respectfully or expect BW to put up with being approached as “STEREOTYPES” instead of INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN (like WW/OTHER NON-WW).
Iaromana, if men were actually honest with you, it’d blow your mind straight out the door. That’s why women get lied to.
The Mayer flap is a case in point. Here’s a guy simply being honest and he’s getting all sorts of hate just for that.
Face it: most women WANT men to lie to them. I think it’s sad, but there it is, nu e cru. The millions of comments above about “nice men” are proof of this.
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Herneith, obviously he didn’t just wake up one day and say “I want to be president.” That takes years of planning and forethought.
Or foreplay, as the case may be. 😀
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Thad, you missed your true calling, hahaha! 😉
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Thad:
Laromana’s name is not Iaromana.
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Ahn. Sorry. reading that lowercase “l” as an uppercase “i”.
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“He married Michelle as part of his plans to run for POTUS. Obviously he needed to marry a black woman to gain the support of blacks!”
That sort of thinking assumes that deep down he wanted to marry a white woman, or at least not a black woman.
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thad, i did not tell u to shut up i told u not to impose ur views on others. if i dont like someone’s views i may disagree but at the end of the day i cant change their views
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thad, i did not tell u to shut up i told u not to impose ur views on others.
The question remains the same: you are imposing your views on others, are you not?
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no im not at all…
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abagond,
That sort of thinking assumes that deep down he wanted to marry a white woman, or at least not a black woman.
Indeed. But why is it surprising that people think this way? Especially white people? I recall the commenter “Angela” saying the same thing in the comments of the Paul Newman post “Black men, when given the choice, date outside their race.” Since black women are perceived to be at the bottom of the barrel of women, why would a successful black man marry one when he has pick of women? Especially a darker-skinned woman, an undeniably black woman (‘cuz you know her being darker-skinned was very strategic on his part!).
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Natasha,
They have been married for about 17 years so that means they married when he was around 30. So are you saying that way back then, he had planned to run for President and chose her for that reason?
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Shani, I’m only being sardonic about the comments I’ve heard from white people regarding why Barack married Michelle. I’ve read both of his books, so I’m very familiar with his history.
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What I find particularly interesting here is the fact white girls were never interested in Obama (at least I remember reading about it).
Now, I am not saying he would date a white woman if he was given a chance, or that he should, but let’s just take one step back. White girls/women didn’t want him. Why are they complaining now? Oh, yes, because that skinny black guy is now a president and they think they would make a better first lady than Michelle. Sorry, ladies.
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Well, Peanut, I fail to see how you expressing your opinion is nice and positive while me doing the same thing is imposing my views.
Can’t have it both ways. Sorry.
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I think if you want to become President, you need to start acting strategically early in life. Obama may well have taken Michelle’s solid black credentials into consideration, along with love and beauty, when he married her. No doubt that move helped him to morph in people’s eyes from a multiracial Hawaiian into a black Chicagoan.
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i am not going to explain myself any further. you were not just expressing your opinion, you were being insulting to people who had differening views and also condescending. you attacked my personal view w/ condescending and sarcastic remarks. you do that to people on here alot i’ve noticed, anytime someone doesn’t agree w/ you. you get this arrogant, condescending attitude about you. you try to make people feel stupid and impose your views on them. i don’t think i did that in my post at all. i just stated my experiences, i didn’t even target all wm. i was only talking about the ones who exhibit that behavior that is the difference
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^Peanut, ITA. One can have a debate without cutting others down.
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you were not just expressing your opinion, you were being insulting to people who had differening views and also condescending.
Sorry, Peanut: stupidity and false morals just brings out the critic in me. I deal with a lot of female HIV bearers who caught the virus by being faithful to their husbands. When I hear an adult woman seriously suggest monogamy and chastity as a decent anti-STD strategy, it’s hard not to be EXTREMELY pissed off. Especially when the woman follows her comments with the howler that “Oh, a woman can’t get HIV if both partners are true to each other”.
Now making THAT sort of statement in takes some cast iron balls, Peanut, or some real ignorance as to how the world works.
To give you an emotional reference, I rate that comment right up there with No_Slappz’ “racism is a figment of the black mind” garbage.
To me, that kind of thing is worse than condescending: it insults the intelligence of every human being who’s ever had to deal with STD prevention strategies among women. It’s simply wrong and inexcusably so.
So do I tweak the person who makes said idiotic commentary (and note I mean “idiot” in its classic Greek sense, as one who is uninformed because they make a conscious effort to be uninformed)? In the imortal words of Sarah Palin: “You betcha”.
Are you free to make idiotic statements like that? Sure. And, as I said, I am also free to laugh and point.
You want to be treated as an equal, Peanut, fine: then don’t tell me I need to pretend that stupidity isn’t stupidity. Implying that monogamy and faith is a viable solution to the AIDS crisis is stupid. Period. No other adjective fits.
It is stupid because it is provably wrong. And sorry, faith isn’t an excuse for stupidity, not when faith contributes to killing other people – which, by the way, is what faith-based monogamy and chasity ABC strategies are doing in Africa and in black America right now.
Now, note that I’m not saying YOU are stupid and that’s what makes this even more infuriating, that an obviously intelligent woman would believe what you do.
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Herneith, i welcome any diolouge on this subject . I have so much respect for the women on here . Of course I want to raise issues , participate and argue about talking about white males dating black women . And I know we might not see eye to eye on many issues about it.
I dont mind your teasing me calling me bs , I was just teasing back, and , Im more than happy to respect abagond’s wishes, or leave if I dont like it. Its a great blog to be talking about these subjects and really bite into them.I hate being cencored though, I would rather have had a warning.
Herneith, you have to get your amants to look into modern science. There are wonderful products that will give them the kick of a porn star. But males have a hard time about this .
By the way, I think Michelle is ravishing. When they had the big party , with Beyonce and Esperanca Spalding, it doesnt get more high class than that.
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“Sorry, Peanut: stupidity and false morals just brings out the critic in me. I deal with a lot of female HIV bearers who caught the virus by being faithful to their husbands. When I hear an adult woman seriously suggest monogamy and chastity as a decent anti-STD strategy, it’s hard not to be EXTREMELY pissed off. Especially when the woman follows her comments with the howler that “Oh, a woman can’t get HIV if both partners are true to each other”.
Now making THAT sort of statement in takes some cast iron balls, Peanut, or some real ignorance as to how the world works.
To give you an emotional reference, I rate that comment right up there with No_Slappz’ “racism is a figment of the black mind” garbage.
To me, that kind of thing is worse than condescending: it insults the intelligence of every human being who’s ever had to deal with STD prevention strategies among women. It’s simply wrong and inexcusably so.
So do I tweak the person who makes said idiotic commentary (and note I mean “idiot” in its classic Greek sense, as one who is uninformed because they make a conscious effort to be uninformed)? In the imortal words of Sarah Palin: “You betcha”.
Are you free to make idiotic statements like that? Sure. And, as I said, I am also free to laugh and point.
You want to be treated as an equal, Peanut, fine: then don’t tell me I need to pretend that stupidity isn’t stupidity. Implying that monogamy and faith is a viable solution to the AIDS crisis is stupid. Period. No other adjective fits.
It is stupid because it is provably wrong. And sorry, faith isn’t an excuse for stupidity, not when faith contributes to killing other people – which, by the way, is what faith-based monogamy and chasity ABC strategies are doing in Africa and in black America right now.
Now, note that I’m not saying YOU are stupid and that’s what makes this even more infuriating, that an obviously intelligent woman would believe what you do.”
You know what Thaddeus, I’m really trying to refrain from insulting you right back in your comments.
When did I EVER EVER state that monagomay would cure AIDS. I NEVER said that. You implied that. I said that having exclusive sexual partners reduced the chances of sexually transmitted diseases. You can ask any health offcial and they’ll agree with that. As a matter of fact, HIv did not even come up y me until someone else mentioned it. In my original comments I mentioned syphilis/herpes. LOl, I didn’t even bring up HIV someone else did. If you read my comments I said was aware people could get HIV from situations outside of sexual intercourse. I had two counsins who died of AIDS actually…so for you to put those words into my mouth just speaks volumes about you and your issues. You are making accusations and putting labels on me that I never even brought up….
You cleary have an issue here… and to me your showing you stupidity too
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You insulted me Thaddeus and put words in my mouth. How dare you make those comments, I would never judge people who have HIV as being sexually promiscous. THAT NEVER EVEN CAME OUT OF MY COMMENTS SO WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM? May I ask??? You constantly put words into people’s mouths and then turn around and accuse them of stupidity when you are JUST as judgemental if not moreso than everyone else.
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my other comment is awaiting moderation, but I would like you to point out where in my comments I stated/implied that HIV was solely related to sexual activity. Find it please and show me….
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I’m not saying you implied that. I’m saying you imply that monogamy is good prevention strategy.
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You insulted me Thaddeus and put words in my mouth. How dare you make those comments, I would never judge people who have HIV as being sexually promiscous.
Where did I say that you did?
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This was the comment I made so what in the devil are you talking about Thaddeus??
The comment i made earlier was this:
Comment # 1: “First of all, you can get those even if you have sex only with one person in your life.”
My Response:
Not if two people on have sex with one person their whole life, you can’t…”
-That was in reference to my earlier comment about syphilis and herpes…
My Comment # 2: “i’m well aware that people can get HIV without having sex, both my cousins had it, they were drug addicts, that’s why i didn’t mention HIV. Also I’m aware you can get herpes from autoinoculation.”
I fail to see where I ever stated HIV was only contracted through sexual intercourse…i’m confused on that one…
BTW… in terms of comment # 1…Correct me if I’m wrong, but for most part you do reduce your chances of contracting herpes/ syphilis and other STDS through sexual exclusivity. So I don’t get you there. That’s not to say I judge people who have them or that incidents don’t happen which are out of people’s control and they contract them anyway… Are you seriously going to tell me though that two people who have sex with eachother and have never been sexually active outside of their relationship in anyway are not reducing their chances of contacting STDS? Are you seriously going to tell me that because last I checked that did reduce your chances…hmmm
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Let’s be real clear here Peanut: my problem with your comments – what I find idiotic – is the view that monogamy and chastity are a decent response to STDs.
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“I’m not saying you implied that. I’m saying you imply that monogamy is good prevention strategy.”
No, i said two people who only have sex w/ eachother is a good prevention strategy.
Monogamy: “The practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time.”
“The practice or condition of being married to only one person at a time.”
“The practice of marrying only once in a lifetime.”
(dictionary.com)
If you’ve slept/sleep with other people and then go into a monagomous relationship, ofcourse its not going to do you much good if you already got it…I said if you never have sex in any way and you meet someone who never had sex in anyway and you are in relationship and stay in that relationship that will reduce your chances of contacting syphilis/herpes and that is true…
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Not if two people on have sex with one person their whole life, you can’t…”
-That was in reference to my earlier comment about syphilis and herpes…
And this makes the comment any less stupid?
I fail to see where I ever stated HIV was only contracted through sexual intercourse…i’m confused on that one…
And I accused you of saying that you did?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but for most part you do reduce your chances of contracting herpes/ syphilis and other STDS through sexual exclusivity.
Statistics are a lot like bikinis: what they cover up is more important than what they show.
A sexually active aware person who’s informed about STDs and their symptoms and practices safe sex has a VERY low chance of getting STDs. But you don’t have many people like that in the U.S., do you? And why don’t you? Because Christian religious groups prohibit the teaching of birth control and real sexual health to kids in public schools, because they prohibit distribution of condoms to kids – something which is now a crime in several American states, btw – and because they prohibit free sexual health clinics funded by public money. In short, these groups have done their best to create a body public that DOESN’T practice safe sex and then have the goddamned gall to be shocked and alarmed when linkages are demonstrated between the number of sexual partners and the risks for STDs.
The fact of the matter is this: if you are sexually exclusive with a person who has a STD and do not practice protected sex, your chances of eventually acquiring said desease are close to 100%. So the argument that sexual exclusivity reduces your chances of acquiring is, in fact, a statistical abstraction, a mathematical slight of hand. It has nothing to do with life as it’s lived.
The argument itself wouldn’t be so noxious except for one simple fact: it has been used by every single right wing religious organization in the U.S. to CUT funding for safe sex education and condom distribution, worldwide. It is thus an argument which has probably been responsible for more deaths – and more BLACK deaths in particular – than any argument you could care to name over the last ten years.
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“The statement which was that sexual exclusitvity between two people who were never sexually active in any form does reduce the risk of STDS denying that is just ridiculous. ”
I should add by saying as long as the two people remain exclusive and don’t cheat on one another, then it does reduce the chances of contacting many, not all, STDS.
Does this mean people who choose to live this lifestyle are any better than those who choose not to?.. absolutely not. Its just a personal choice. I believe that sexual education is important, there are many people who sleep with many different people just because and never get STDs or anything. People should have the option to chose what lifestyle they want to live, but that doesn’t change the fact that there is always risk and all my statement was implying was that the risk can be reduced through changes in sexual lifestyle. that’s all I was saying. But you chose to take what I said and make it into something totally different. At the end of the day people are going to do what they are going to do and its not my job to judge them and in return I don’t expect to be judged for my choices. That’s all I’m saying…
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Speaking of Michelle Obama, it amazes me how she is seen in her own country.
In my country, she is seen in a very positive light. Classy, educated. A real lady with a great fashion sense. Not threatening in any way. I think many people here perceive her to be a very gentle person.
Quite opposite of Hillary, who is seen as a b..ch, unrefined, evil and ugly.
I am not saying any of this is necessary true for Michelle OR Hillary (thought unlearning prejudices is never an easy thing to do), but I was really shocked to find out how Michelle is seen by some people.
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Thaddeus, you have comprehension problems. My comment isn’t any more stupid than yours is. Read my comment more carefully and think it through next time, I’m not explaining it again.
No, Peanut, I understood your comment very clearly.
You think that being a virgin marrying a virgin will somehow protect you from STDs. That is not a prevention strategy: that is wishful thinking.
Why is this wishful thinking?
Very simply because you can never vouch for another’s sexual activity. Period.
You like to say “Ask any health professional”. Well, any health professional who is not associated with religious dogma will tell you exactly what I’m telling you: believing that you’re “safe” from STDs because your partner is, of course, faithful to you is not a risk reduction strategy: it is blind faith.
The truth is though, you Thaddeus are just as closeminded and ignorant as the same people you castigate.
Nope, I just go for proof, Peanut. EVERYWHERE that ABC has replaced safe sex education strategies, HIV has risen over the long term. In Brazil and the U.S., monogamous women who believe in their mates are one of the fastest growing groups of HIV carriers. These are simple facts, Peanut. You don’t have to like them, but they are so. Whining about me being closed minded to the strategy of “close your eyes and trust in Jesus and your mate” is, frankly, stupid given these facts. It’s like saying I’m close minded because I reject your opinion that the world is flat or that white people are superior to black people.
Rejecting horsesh$% does not make one close-minded, Peanut.
You DO JUDGE OTHERS.
Wrong. I judge other’s OPINIONS. You are what you are and I don’t know you. I’m sure you are a very nice person. Your views on HIV transmission and how to prevent it are stupid, however. If you can’t understand the difference between those two positions, I am sorry, but it’s not my problem.
I should add by saying as long as the two people remain exclusive and don’t cheat on one another, then it does reduce the chances of contacting many, not all, STDS.
In a perfect world where people always tell the truth and don’t cheat on each other, yes it would. I’m sorry, Peanut, but that world is not here. Maybe you want to complain to God about it? I’m just telling you the facts.
I don’t expect to be judged for my choices.
Make stupid choices, expect them to get called as such. No one in this world owes you anything more or less, Peanut.
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shani, you wrote:
“They can’t understand why Obama, a successful man, married a full black woman.”
They? Who are “They”?
You wrote:
“That’s why Michelle Obama is attacked.”
Attacked? Show me one item about Michelle Obama in a legitimate media venue that was an attack.
You wrote:
“They are angry that the First Lady is not a reflection of the eurocentric beauty standard.”
They are Angry? It is more accurate to say you are delusional.
You wrote:
“She’s well-built, statuesque, intelligent, well-dressed so they attack her facial features because she defies all other stereotypes.”
More evidence of your delusions. However, Michelle does has a laaarrrgggeee butt. She works hard to hide it. But it shows, nonetheless.
You wrote:
“Men have always stooped to this level when they can’t find something wrong with a woman. They can be cowards.”
As H.L. Mencken once said, the only people women hate more than men, are other women.
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Sorry, Abagond, but that wasn’t “doubting Peanut’s age”: it was an honest question. I have no base line from which to go on for Peanut’s age, but she has implied that she is a virgin (something I have no problem with) and her views on relationships seem to me to be very, very naive.
This is why I asked if she was still very young. It would be somewhat understandable to me if she was, less so if she was not.
As for condescending, again, I’ll try not to be. But I truly believe that the facts speak for themselves on this one, Abagond: trusting in virginity and exclusivity is not a successful risk reduction strategy for STDs. It is an all or nothing strategy. You’re safe if you’re right about your partner and 100% screwed if you are wrong.
To me, claiming that this is a viable risk reduction strategy is simply stupid.
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Well, I must agree on your opinion concerning risk reduction strategy. I do think sexual education should teach about birth control and not abstinence. But your comments often DO sound offensive, preachy and patronizing.
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peanut says,
I should add by saying as long as the two people remain exclusive and don’t cheat on one another, then it does reduce the chances of contacting many, not all, STDS.
laromana says,
In the REAL WORLD, REAL PEOPLE who I’ve know that have remained sexually exclusive and NOT cheated on each other have reduced their chances of contacting most (if not ALL) STD’s.
I’m not sure why CERTAIN commenters on this post have such an UNNECESSARILY CONDESCENDING/JUDGEMENTAL/MOCKING/OFFENSIVE attitude towards those who uphold this moral value/lifestyle choice.
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“In a perfect world where people always tell the truth and don’t cheat on each other, yes it would. I’m sorry, Peanut, but that world is not here. Maybe you want to complain to God about it? I’m just telling you the facts.”
There you go again, Thad. I’m not an idiot, I realize this is the real-world duh. I know how the world works. My point was facts are facts and the fact is IF someone were to put restrictions on their sexual lifestyle then it does REDUCE the chances of STDS and stop bringing up HIV, do you have reading problems? I have stated multiple times that I”m not speaking about HIV and you selectievly ignore that like you’re slow to pick up on things or something. It’s quite annoying, you need to learn to comprehend things better cause clearly you think you do and you don’t. YOu completely missed the point of all my posts and I”m tired of explaining it. I may be young, age 21 and not had sex yet, but so what. I’m not running around with an STD so obviously the way I choose to live must be working and obviously your way IS NOT THE ONLY way to live, so stop pretending like it is Thaddeus….
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You think you’re right all the time and you’re not. I respect the way people live if someone wants to sleep with every person on earth, I respect that, has nothing to do with me. Whether they get and STD or not has nothing to do with me. The bottom line is if you’ve never had sex with anyone in any form your chances of getting and STD are slim, slim, that’s common sense. I realize most people don’t live that way, I was simply stating that a fact is a fact and its common sense that if your not engaging in sexual activity then your chances are greatly reduced, I don’t know why you keep arguing that and trying to make me look stupid when you just look ridiculous…I’m not going to debate this anymore with you because its driving me insane
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Thank you Laramona… I’m not stupid, I’m the only virgin in my whole circle of friends with the exception of one. They all have healthy sexual lifestyles. I’m well aware that people can be sexually active and still have a healthy and safe sexual lifestyle. The point is that it is not my preference and I would appreciate if people didn’t make judgements about my decisions. Contraception greatly reduces the risks and so does abstinence. I choose abstinence at this point and I don’t think I deserve to be ridiculed or judged because of that and made to feel like a silly little idiot by some. They’re both effective, although abstinence is more effective in my opinion and many others as you’re not really putting yourself at risk at all.
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“Sorry, Abagond, but that wasn’t “doubting Peanut’s age”: it was an honest question. I have no base line from which to go on for Peanut’s age, but she has implied that she is a virgin (something I have no problem with) and her views on relationships seem to me to be very, very naive.”
Oh, so I’m the naive one? For having common sense??? How old are you? 40 I would think you would have more common sense…
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Peanut,
You are far from being stupid. In fact I think you’re an intelligent and very secure woman. You have high morals and you stick to them. I admire women like you. The people who judge and ridicule you are jealous because you have your own mind and you use it. Some people want to bring you down to their level. Some people also hate to see the loose black woman stereotype being challenged. And yes abstinence is the best way to prevent STDs.
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They should be teaching abstinence as a part of sex education as well as everything else they are teaching in sex-ed today. The first time sexual encounters are happening at increasingly younger ages. Kids are being pressured into having sex among their peers. They are made to feel anathemas if they haven’t had some form of sexual contact with another kid/person. This is one of the reasons abstinence should be promoted as a viable alternative along with whatever else is being taught. When the kid becomes a full grown adult, they can do what they want, it’s their choice. At least they will have knowledge when doing so along with choices for which to protect themselves.
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Peanut,
People try to pressure you into their mindset because they are jealous and wished that they’d had enough fortitude and stamina to hold onto their beliefts. I agree with your stance 100%.
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What I dislike about teaching abstinence as a sexual education is not teaching kids about abstinence- but lies told about safe sex. I had no idea that was going on in America (and not just America) till recently- so many kids learning that birth control is bad and ineffective and that condoms make people immoral and make them sleep around and what not, and that students should practice abstinence till marriage. Nothing wrong with abstinence as a personal choice, but what about those people (and there ARE those people, A LOT of them) who would not wait? Those people will engage in sexual activities, but unlike those who know how to use birth control properly, these people won’t even bother to buy a condom (it’s ineffective anyway). Hence, more chance for STD, pregnancy, etc. And ironically, this make them go through the exact problems their parents waned them about: premarital sex brings STD, shame, pregnancy. But it’s not premarital sex that bring those things- it’s the lack of education.
I am not against abstinence and celibacy. I just think abstinence-only sex ed is not a good idea. If you truly believe in abstinence till marriage, knowing what’s a condom and how it’s properly used might not be of much use to you, but it’s not like knowing these things will harm you in any way. On the other hand, not knowing how to use protection can get sexually active people in trouble, while knowing what’s abstinence is not of much use to them (except it brings guilt and shame).
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i agree mira, i think its important that people know they have options and for adults to speak honestly with kids about sex and making sexual choices. I always knew I had an option, I choose to be abstinent because that is my choice. If I chose to have sex I know I have plenty of contraceptive options to reduce the risks of unwanted pregnancy/STD. Although it is always necessary to caution that although most birth control is effective, there is always a risk that it won’t be. Some people are willing to take that risks, others are not. and thats fine. People should be made aware of that, but need to have options and know the reality of the situation.
My choice to be abstinent was a personal one and I made that choice because I want to take my time and know the man I sleep with well enough so that if something did happen, if I did get pregnant, he would stand by me no matter what. I want to trust him and ultimately I would like the first man I sleep with to be the father of my children, so its just my personal choice and what I’m comfortable with.
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@ La Reyna
The site I found was called the Black Woman’s Interracial Dating Circle. Is anything but! The owner was all about denigrating any black person who did not see white men as the saviors of black women. What is the name of Evia’s site so I can avoid it like H1N1
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It’s called Black Female Interracial Marriage Ezine at:
http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/
La Reyna
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This is what most racist whites want to see Black women as having:
out of wedlock kids
several different baby daddies
on welfare or menial job
video vixen/stripper shaking her behind
venereal disease
provocative dress
prostitutes
ghetto
low class attitudes
alone without a man
bitter
Message to racist nonblacks- We’re not stereotypes listed above. If you can’t respect Black women’s decision to stay virgins and be exclusive to one man and one man only, then stay away from us! We don’t need your sloppy admiration mixed with sexual fetish. It’s creepy and dehumanizing.
________________
La Reyna
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I was on the site that eshowoman suggested and I am, like really trippin’. First of all, I was unaware that Eve is engaged to a white man. Also, Stacy Dash is married again? Her husband is fine.
AND Adam Rodriguez has a black girlfriend?! That is one lucky, lucky woman. Wow!
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Islandgirl,
I heard about Eve awhile ago–I forgot where they met, but I think the story was somewhat interesting.
Stacy Dash’s husband isn’t my type, but I need to start drinking her no-aging elixir! I wouldn’t even flinch if I saw her walk past me on my way to class.
Now Adam Rodriguez? Ooh wee! 🙂
I hadn’t heard of this site but I think any site that encourages Black women to “go get them a White man” (or any man) is a bit much, 1) because the interracial focus is almost always exclusively B/W, which makes it seem disgenuous and 2) because I don’t like the whole “flee from the Black man!” thing. It’s always been my guess that BW who almost always dated White men did so because that’s who asked them out most. That’s always been my experience–10 times as many White guys are checking for me than Black ones, so the odds are in their favor.
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Jasmin,
I was looking at another man (maybe hispanic?) he had a Dodgers jersey and I thought it was Stacy’s husband. Her husband is not my type either. Yes, she looks very young.I want to look young and ageless at that age.
Mr. Rodriguez! Uh, yeah!
For some reason, there are certain women/girls that black guys don’t ask out as much, but white ones do. I have no explanation for it.
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Islandgirl,
Very true–I once joked to my boyfriend that I could walk into the men’s locker room naked and none of the Black men would flinch! 😛
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The comments about First Lady Obama are interesting because that’s one woman who’s not worrying about preferring/not preferring to date anyone 🙂 ! She seems to have a good marriage, and I don’t think there’s any evidence she’s trying to hide her body. Now women who are still in the dating stages may have something interesting to say about this topic.
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Adam Rodriguez is a Puerto Rican from the Bronx (his cousin is a childhood neighbor) he is less likely to have issues with black women. islandgirl don’t get suckered into that site, that is how she pulled me in. The site is all about the “white guy.”
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laromana sez:
I’m not sure why CERTAIN commenters on this post have such an UNNECESSARILY CONDESCENDING/JUDGEMENTAL/MOCKING/OFFENSIVE attitude towards those who uphold this moral value/lifestyle choice.
Because said “lifestyle choice” is being hyped to the gills by certain religions and political parties as a rational, workable solution to the HIV crisis. If it was just Peanut’s own opinion, I probably wouldn’t be worried about it so much. Unfortunately, it’s not and I think it’s falsely moral to pretend that it is. It’s the dominant opinion in today’s U.S. foreign policy, thanks to the Bush regime, and it is killing people.
I’m well aware that Peanut probably considers the opinion to be her own individual choice. I will point out that there’s not a racist on this planet who likewise doesn’t consider their opinion to be their own individual choice. I, for one, gave up a long time ago nodding my head at opinions that kill thousands of people, no matter how nice and sincere their articulators may be. When someone’s morals becomes global politics and starts killing, then I think it’s well beyond time that people start questioning said morals.
I should add by saying as long as the two people remain exclusive and don’t cheat on one another, then it does reduce the chances of contacting many, not all, STDS.
And I will point out once again that there’s a HUGE amount of unimpeachable scientific data out there that says that this sort of thing simply doesn’t occur in significant numbers. People AREN’T, as a rule, faithful to one mate throughout their lives and all well-wishes and prayer towards that end have not been successful in changing that simple and amply demonstratable fact.
I’m not an idiot, I realize this is the real-world duh. I know how the world works. My point was facts are facts and the fact is IF someone were to put restrictions on their sexual lifestyle then it does REDUCE the chances of STDS and stop bringing up HIV.
And I’m not interested in contrafactual propositions on this topic, Peanut, because it is very much a real world issue with me. If aliens from dimension X were to pop in today and offer us perfect cures for all STDS, that would greatly reduce them as well. It’s simply not going to happen, however, so why pretend it might?
As for your complaint that HIV is somehow different from STDs in general in this respect, it is jejune in the extreme. The same algebra that works for HIV also works for STDs in general: if you are having exclusive, monogamous unprotected sex with a partner who has an STD, your chances of picking up said disease are close to 100%. That’s not risk reduction, Peanut.
What you are REALLY saying, Peanut, when you say “I and my partner will be exclusive with each other and this will lower our STD risk” is the following: “I will commit myself to unprotected sex with one parter and fervently hope and pray that he does the same thing. Because if he lies to me and gets an STD, I am so screwed…”
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La Reyna sez:
This is what most racist whites want to see Black women as having:
out of wedlock kids
several different baby daddies
on welfare or menial job
video vixen/stripper shaking her behind
venereal disease
provocative dress
prostitutes
ghetto
low class attitudes
alone without a man
bitter
Message to racist nonblacks- We’re not stereotypes listed above. If you can’t respect Black women’s decision to stay virgins and be exclusive to one man and one man only, then stay away from us! We don’t need your sloppy admiration mixed with sexual fetish. It’s creepy and dehumanizing.
La Reyna, the F#$%ING REPUBLICAN PARTY is selling the view that Black America’s family problems can be solved with self-control, marriage and chastity. This is also their solution to the HIV crisis in Africa and here in South America.
I’M TELLING YOU THAT IT DOESN’T WORK.
Teaching safe sex and birth control is THE BEST way to reduce out of wedlock births, STDs, and female poverty. Hands down. You want to lower the female poverty rate? Push for federal-supported childcare.
Your country (which I presume is the U.S.) has fought tooth-and-nail against all of these things for the last 40 years and your STD, out-of-wedlock birth rate and female poverty rates are all on the order of those of third world nations. Western Europe, on the other hand, teaches their children about sex and how to prevent pregnancy and STDs. It aids young mothers with childcare, so that they don’t have to drop out of the workforce. And Western Europe doesn’t seem to have epidemic levels of any of these problems.
If you are naive enough to believe that I am saying what I’m saying because I WANT to see poor, single, HIV-ridden mothers wandering the streets of America, then all I can say is that I’m amazed that Republicans have been so successful. They obviously can sell their anti-black family “family values” to women like you who are self-proclaimed black activists.
I live in a very religious Christian country, LaReyna. I deal with young women as students and in the community and I can tell you right now that the most at-risk for STDs and unwanted pregnancy AREN’T the girls who know how to use condoms and use them, the ones with multiple partners.
The girls I deal with every day who got pregnant at 16 are the “good” girls, the “family values” girls who BELIEVE in the Disney-inculcated values of the male prince who’ll love them and never abandon them.
THESE are the girls who are dropping out of school to have kids, who are trapped into crap jobs and who, by the time they’re 22, are seriously considering prostitution as a viable option because it seems to be the only way that they’re ever going to amass enough cash to get out of mom and dad’s house and set up on their own.
Every day I interview devout Catholic and Evangelical Christian single mothers who are out turning tricks on Copacabana. PLEASE do not tell me about how “good family values” and “morals” are going to save these women from poverty and STDs.
It just ain’t happening.
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B. R.’s list of why black American woman should consider some white males for dating :
1) Forget the slavory rape historical background of the white man , if its David Duke, heck yeah, dont go near him. But , if its a decent person, give him a chance. My ancestors helped on the underground railroad, many white males from the north went to their death fighting the Civil War , thinking they were frighting to free the slaves.Not all white males history are filled with having slaves and raping black women.
2) Dont beleive that all white males are followers of what the media beauty standards are saying . The media beauty standards have a lot at stake to make us all feel that there is something wrong with us and we should buy their products.They try to make us feel we are too fat, smell bad, have bad breath , dress horribly , and any number of things. There are some white men that are as attracted to abagonds black girl in the forest ,with her small breasts and wide hips and dark skin color, and deeply curly hair, as he is.
3) Dont worry about old white men being attracted to you. Viagra has given them a new lease on life, and like the scuzz balls, they are hitting on anybody and everybody.And to the young women uptight because old white men are looking at you, get over it, I am older and I will be looking at you admiring your beauty, you just wont know it because Ill have on sunglasses and have my head looking one way but my eyes looking at you.
4) Let go of the “fetish ” thing. Unless the guy is a stalking nazi ku klux klan rapist, if a white male has a deep attraction for black skin and an afinity for black American culture, why not give him a chance. What is this thing that is suposed to be wrong with a preferance with black women. After feeling the media has left the black woman out and not given her beauty a chance, to have men of any race come forth and speak of a great attraction and preferance for black beauty, unless the guy does take it into a deep real fetish leval , you shouldnt have worries about it. It shows what is wrong with the media. You cant tie the hands of a man behind his back because he has a liking for a type of food and wants to eat it “oh there is something wrong with you because you want to eat this type of food, you have a fetish for this food, shame on you….”. Of course, the guy who would just jump from one black woman to the next without really wanting to get to know you is someone to avoid. But a guy who has an attraction to black woman and black culture , may be the guy that could marry you. Some white men would fall in love with you and marry you.
5) Where some white males may come from uptight families , quite a few dont, and there would be no problem with inter racial courtship and to get married.
6) Dont let men of any race (remember, white klu klux klaners dont want you to date white men either) hold hands with womans libbers and advise you who you should be dating and having sex with to fool you into thinking you will be sexualy exploited. Get in touch with your own sexuality and ask yourself what you really like and want ,and dont let any one tell you what you should or shouldnt be doing as far as men you want to date or have sex with.
7)Bottom line, just have your antenna up, if a white male sounds like a jerk, get away from them , call them on their bullshit. But at least keep an open mind until he reveals some white man racial hang up.
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B.R. it seems your BOTTOM LINE is forget most things and excuse the rest. Why do black women have to make so changes to be with white men? What are white men willing to do to be more attractive to black women?
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eshowoman:
8. Some white men will do anything to be more attractive to black woman……
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I love this.
A lot of what you said is the truth.
The only guys I’ve dated have been white. I’ve been asked twice by two of the guys, “Is it okay if I use the N word? …” So awkward.
A relationship can work whatever the race, but it seems easier when you’re with someone who understands where you’re coming from. (Similar experiences etc…)
I’m mixed: African & European and I’m from Vancouver,
so as much as I would LOVE to date black guys, we don’t have many out here! The ones I always see are hooked up with someone.
I sometimes wish I lived in the states because of this.
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Esho sez:
B.R. it seems your BOTTOM LINE is forget most things and excuse the rest.
“Forget most things…”?
OK, let`s just take the rape issue. FACT, esho: historically speaking, most rapists of black women have been BLACK.
So if you’re dating black guys, aren’t you likewise “forgetting” something?
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eshowoman…Now i get it, doh….
B. R.’s list for what white men need to do to try to be more attractive to black American women (this is not a pick up guide for the white man who just wants sex)
1) If you are attracted to a black woman, dont just stay across the room looking at her, come up and directly talk to her , she can only say no she is not interested.
2) Even if you have been driven mad since junior high school with the beauty of black women, dont lead with that , just say you think she has beautiful eyes or a beautiful smile.
3) Dont come in talking about how much you love black culture , even if you do. If you have any subjects like cooking, makeup or hair style knowledge or fasion ideas , that could be great, if you dont, get some knowledge. If you cant resist talking about her skin color, tie it in with how great her skin tones can go with so many differant fasion colors while your Danny Ainge pasty white legs dont look good in many (go easy on the self deprication humor, black woman dont like weak men).
4) Dont assume she can dance, even if you like to. I love to dance and both my black wives were and are profesional dancers, but, its something I knew as I went in. If its someone you actualy met on the dance floor, then you can talk about dance, but, if not, dont go jumping to conclusions.
5) Dont assume anything about black women, there are millions of black women and they all have their own story and personal likes and dislikes and temperments.
6) Dont lead with black political discusions. Let her bring it up, and , the real deal is to listen, dont go telling her what she is suposed to know. If you need to add anything just mention you read in the New York times that unemployment for blacks in the USA is around 50 percent now, or how Katrina sure did demonstrate that blacks are still treated as second class citizens (I wouldnt joke about why John Travolta and Oprah should have taken John’s jet and air dropped supplies) . Actualy, check in with the New York Times frequently, there are always articles about how discrimination and racism are still in effect and at least you can sound up to date.
7) For god’s sake, dont lead with trying to be hip hop hip, using the n word or the b word, or John Meyor ignorance about a David Duke d word.
8) Dont go breaking down crying on the first date with white guilt. At least wait sometime into the relationship until after she has cried a few times to break down.
9) Dont have a discusion reffering to her as “you people”, or ,”your people”. Most black women dont look on themselves as a representative of their race.
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…oh yeah
9) Dont go doing or mentioning stupid frat boy humor like lighting farts or mooning…and dont , after a few beers , start a long loud ugly yell
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Dont go doing or mentioning stupid frat boy humor like lighting farts or mooning…and dont , after a few beers , start a long loud ugly yell
So THAT`S what I`ve been doing wrong…
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I find some white men attractive but reasons 1-8 is why I stay in my race.
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B.R.,
Your list of what WM need to do to be more attractive to BW is missing a few basic tips.
-STOP approaching BW in a DIFFERENT TYPE OF WAY than you would approach WW/OTHER NON-WW.
– Talk to BW like they are WOMEN (INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN WOMEN WHO ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN WW/OTHER NON-WW), THAT’S IT!
If MORE WM started approaching BW respectfully (per B.R.’S suggested list and my additional tips), MORE BW would be open to IRR’S with WM.
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Thands for the tips, laromana, Im all ears and I like what you said
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“Some white men will do anything to be more attractive to black woman……”
Like???? Examples, please, examples!
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Like what laramona just said , eshowoman
Look, I dont want to tell a black woman that doesnt want to date a white man that she should.
I keep saying, if that is your feeling, have it, have it for your whole life.
Im not here to berate black women, I love black women, since I was young. I was raised in an integrated neigbohood. My freinds were black males, I was listening to Jazz, Cuban music, African music and Brazilian music since i was 8. James Brown wasnt on the scene yet and when he was , i was doing the James Brown and copping the splits .
When my black freinds hit puberty , I was there with them and , when they started socialising with girls and i socialised with them. The more whites around me showed racism , the more i got away from them. My parties and dancing and socialising was the black American experiance, and i was very lucky and blessed to be accepted before the militant part of the Cival Rights Movement came in. Sure I was confused at first, but I accepted and understood the nescesity of it.
It didnt make a differance when it did come in, though, I married (got divorced later) a woman from the deep ghetto , the now defunct Robert Taylor Homes projects, and she was very refined, I laugh at notions of what a “ghetto girl” is suposed to be.Many of the girls pictures on here remind me of girls i dated, or had relationships with or that i had immensce crushes on.You too eshowoman.
Jasmin, if i was 40 years younger and single you would have to beat me off with a stick.
I dont have a filter on what type of black woman Im atracted to, I love all types, shades and colors and all types of their hair styles.Tall and short.
I abhor white racism, I would always be supportave of any black woman about her heritage and especialy the in the moment now discrimination and racism she would have to face.
I accept the veiws of the black woman who dont want to date white men, but I know that I have my inner beleifs, and my personal life to fullfill.And by all stretch of the imagination i have fullfilled my desires with my wonderful family now
I come in here on cybor space to see what American black women are thinking on the subject, I present arguments on here to vent my feelings when I see black women on here give their reasons for not wanting to date a white man,but, Im not here to change you, I love who black women are.
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i think the bottom line is that there are racist, ignorant white men and theres ones who are intelligent and not racist. i read a poster who said she mostly dates white men and once, one of them asked if he cuold use the n word around her. theres an example of a stupid idiot man who assumes it ok to talk like that, ans think like that. There are white men out there [like myself] who would even ask, because we wouldnt think it in the first place.
i think is an important issue to talk about, because its not like we all as humans arent attracted to one another, or were mentally incapable of being partners, its just our society and history have brainwashed us into thinking we must stay separate. were cold to one another cuz weve been taught that..
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I personally believe black men have more of an issue in today’s society with black women dating white men because the times for black women have changed. See today a white man is most likely to have an educated, sophisticated, loving, beautiful black woman. Black women have raised the bar, meeting and defeating adversities and finally gaining their rightful place in society. With black women out numbering black men by almost double maybe even triple the number of college graduates, sisters are most likely spending more time with people of other races/ethnicities.
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Lol, BR, I think my boyfriend would beat you first. 😉
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Most Black women prefer Black men.And The main reason is lack of attraction for White men generally by black women, racism has nothing to do with it, there are a few exceptions though
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I would like to add: Some white men who give stereotypical “black/african-american,” names to items, such as automobiles, motorcyles and other inanimate objects.
Example:Owning a black harley and naming it “Shaniya or Keisha.”
I don’t know why, but it irritates the hell out of me. I had a white guy come up to me and my friends and mock us by yelling out “Kneisha, Kneisha!!” None of us are named that btw. It was very rude.
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I don’t have anything against, white men because they are individuals. But sometimes I just wonder if our black american and white american cultures are so in opposition that it just makes it difficult to come together. There is always that moment in any type of relationship with a guy that is white (in my experience) where you realize that you two are coming from opposing cultures.
Case and point: There have been several incidents I’ve had w / white males where I’ve had to stop talking to them over stuff for awhile. I got into one really bad argument with one white male friend over the use of the “n-word,” and why its different when bp say it and wp say and it got ugly.
In another argument I had about economics and outsourcing labor/exploitation of working class people, I had to remind another guy that my ancestors were slaves and didn’t have the chance to exploit america for its resources, they were the resources being exploited. I explained that was why I felt it was wrong to exploit people for their labor just to get ahead. Just that in itself caused an awkwardness. Its like the more I learn about society/history, the more difficult it is for me to keep my mouth shut in these relationships when things are said.
It used to be, a white guy may say something that I disagree with from my perspective as a bw, but I would keep my mouth shut just because I didn’t want to rock the boat. I did that all throughout highschool. Two white male “friends,” of mine made comment about how the Don Imus situation was blown way out of proportion. He didn’t mean it that way. Ofcourse, I knew better, but I didn’t correct them. As I’m getting older though, its like I just can’t keep my mouth shut and this is affecting my relationship with some white males…
So I really think there is a rift between white american men and black american women that seems to just make things difficult. There is always going to be that awkward, uncomfortable moment, waiting…just lurking in the background ready to resurface.
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peanut,
I would like to add: Some white men who give
stereotypical “black/african-american,” names to items, such as automobiles, motorcyles and other inanimate objects.
Example:Owning a black harley and naming it “Shaniya or Keisha.”
I’ve never seen or heard of this. Interesting.
I don’t have anything against, white men because they are individuals. But sometimes I just wonder if our black american and white american cultures are so in opposition that it just makes it difficult to come together. There is always that moment in any type of relationship with a guy that is white (in my experience) where you realize that you two are coming from opposing cultures.
Hmmm, maybe so. I guess it would depend on what culture you are coming from, exactly. My SO and I come from similar backgrounds (at least in terms of our earlier years). So there wasn’t a huge division in terms of culture. I also think what Alex was saying above about college and educational environments is pretty relevant; when you have something as significant as education in common, it is easier to find a middle-ground.
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@ Fro – Bingo. The white notion of universal desirability is actually highly undesirable…and yet some seem to have trouble grasping that.
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actually mynameismyname, I go to college in Hawaii and I think white men think of Black women more than black woman think of white men. I get approached by them a lot. Also, I choose not to date them after a couple of bad experiences. They have no values(but claim to be apart of a certain religion), think having a good time is drinking, too impulsive, and the only thing they know about the black culture is what they see on television and view me as an exception.
I Have white male friends but they will stay friends. I think they try too hard to fit in and are so insecure. I am dating an east indian man and the only problem I am having is how busy his schedule is- he is interning at a financial company, working at National oceanic and atmospheric administration, and taking 15 credits at university of Hawaii. So sometimes it’s difficult for us to get together because we’re both A students who study all the time.
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There is always going to be that awkward, uncomfortable moment, waiting…just lurking in the background ready to resurface.
Mm-hm. *nods* The moment you correct them on some racial shit, they have a nervous breakdown.
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Thad, some of us choose to remain virgins by choice. I am a 23 year old virgin and my east indian boyfriend doesn’t pressure me at all.
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Mmm,ok first of all im a wm, or maybe not, let me explain, im mexican and as you must know all latins are mixed, im blond and very very white but my mother and half my family have dark skin
(by dark i dont mean black, but indian like) but lets asume im white,i defintly look white
i dont date bw because there are not bw in mexico, that simple, but 3 years ago i lived for moreless 1 year in NY, and most of that time i dated a beautiful bw , and if i hadnt had to come back to mexico for family issues , i think we would have gone deeper , marring or something
its funny how i meet her, i was walking down the street and i saw a beautiful chick looking at me, it was wird, she was checking me out , it was obious she found me atractive but at the same time i found a little of something like disdain in her glance. So as any other curious guy i approached her, i asked her name, and made small talk, then she told me to stop it ,that it was pathetic that a white man talked like a latin, that i was making a fool of my self, i laughed and told her i was mexican, she didnt beliefe me at first but after a while (showing her my passport helped, i guess) she believed, we had a strong conection after that, and 1 week later we were in a relationship.
I wont get into many details but we were very in love and had a great time together and im grateful for that
there are some things that i think made it possible
1 im latin and im hot (nah) well seriously being from a foreign country the racial and cultural prejudices didnt afect me at all, and that way she puted her defences down, she knew i was for real, and we were cool.
2 i dont have a pound of white guilt in my bones, those white guys of the old days are not my ancestors and even if they were (which are not, mexican remember?) im not them, i know who i am and never let anyone tell me otherwise, so i didnt try to treat her in any different way because of “her people” i loved her and treated her as any lover would do to his woman, as an independent unique individual. On the other hand if there was anything i felt unconfortable with i just told her so, didnt let racial taboos stop me. (and yes , ones we had confidence i told her black jokes and she answered with white jokes, we never let our ego make us mad, maybe other things but not our ego)
3 as i mentioned there are not black people where i live , so i never actualy had to much contact with afroamerican culture (exept tv i guess), i was always open minded to what ever came, as i didnt actualy knew what to expect.
4 i accepted our differences ,i didnt try to change, like speaking ghetto or something like that (though some thing stick to me without me trying), i didnt pretend to change my tastes for her to accept me, im tousled hippy tipe of guy, dont know much about hiphop or rnb and dont realy care. ( but of course i found i liked some of her music, and she liked some of my music too)
a funny thing is that all of her female friends(all of them bw) despite having doubts about me at the begining ended up accepting me, but her male friends (bm all of them) had more problems with me being white, some got used to it and even became friends with me, but some always were hostile all the time, like i was stealing from them.
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guille, thanks for telling us your experiance.
I beleive black American women just want to be accepted for exactly who they are.They want to ,and ,deserve to be treated the same way any man would treat a women that they were passionate for.
The impresions , that black women on here express ,that they see portrayed in the media of them, are painful, and, boggle the mind at the stereotypical implications.
When I read posts from American white men like that Roisse ( what ever the spelling) , and his white posters, or , some white guys that post here or the John Meyer dreck, they just sound like dolts.
I cant blame black American women alienating themselves from white males that think like that.
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yes there are many stupid white racists in usa, too much hate.
but i think its healthy to keep an open mind all the time, you never know.
for example my exgirlfriend wasnt the only one that had to get out her confort zone a little and take a risk, it was very difficult at the begining for me too.
i was raised to have a very bad opinion of people of usa
and by people of usa i mean white, black, yellow, brown, all americans, in fact when i got the schoolarship, i thought of regecting it.
when i arrived to usa i didnt plan to date any american woman, no matter the color, only latin women, but after some time i realised not all americans were the way i was told (yet, many were exactly like that). so i started hanging out with friends of all races and backgrounds , and started dating an american bw.
both of us were not really sure in the begining but im so glad both of us chose to give it a chance
im not saying that if a bw doesnt want to date a wm she is wrong, but if someone had told me some years ago that i would date an american woman i would have told to fu%&/ off.
if one does not like to be victim of pejudice, one should not do the same thing
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First let me say this Islandgirl you are fine baby, anyway I love my black sisters. I have never dated outside my race I just feel at home with my sisters. my dad was white and my mom is black so i have both races. i was brought up to respect adults, and the elderly but especially women. i think the black woman is the most sexiest woman alive. i’m not a racist i just prefer my sista’s.
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Big P, thanks! That totally caught me off guard, but I appreciate it.
It is also great that you appreciate black women, especially being of biracial background. Also, it’s not very common to see people respect adults, or anyone for that matter.
Since men like this aren’t in abundance, I do think that black women need to expand their options.
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Greetings to all! Abagond, I really enjoy your blog and the fact that you offer support to Black women. Thank you for showing diverse beauty of us. Usually I just lurk on this site but I felt like I had to say something to Peanut. I was horrified by Thad’s language towards her. I felt that he was very disrespectful and condescending about her lifestyle choice. Peanut, don’t let jerks like Thad or anybody else persuade you to change your stance on abstinence. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with your choice to hold off on sex. I am a 37 year old devout Christian who also practices abstinence. I know all about being ridiculed or mocked. Whatever. Some of the very people who questioned my beliefs and abstinence are now single mothers who receive little or next to nothing support from their baby daddies. I’d rather be abstinent than to contract STDs or become another single mother statistic (please do not think that I’m slamming single mothers because I’m not. It’s just not what I want for myself.). Sometimes it seems like Black women can’t win for trying. We’re derided for being sexually active and having children out of wedlock. If we say that we’re abstinent, then we’re “uptight prudes.” Peanut, stick to your guns and stand strong. You strike me as being a very strong and intelligent young lady who doesn’t follow the crowd.
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mochasister,
I totally agree with your positive remarks regarding choosing an abstinent lifestyle and second your encouraging remarks to peanut.
Peanut, there’s NOTHING WRONG with choosing an abstinent lifestyle REGARDLESS of what ANYONE thinks.
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go big p. your like obama
i have seen white men that i found to be sexy. but i don’t feel at home or i wouldn’t be comfortable. i feel i wouldn’t be myself. i am a agressive black women. and what others find to be vulger i could feel at home with it. it depends where i’m at. black women that i see with white men always seem stiff.
interacial couples is like they are walking on egg shells. i love to bug out with my partner get loud, vulger and stupid. you know play ruff. if i was with a white man i would have to cuss everybody and their mama out for even just looking at us the wrong way. its just too much hassle i think.
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Of all the races in the world, it appears that the blacks and whites are always debating and fighting. The blacks have been thumbed by most of the world, and whites are placed on a pedestal by most of the world. Whites claim most powerful, richest, prettiest, just the best in nearly everything. I do not have a problem with anyone claiming the world and what’s in it, because “The world is mine and the fullness thereof,” said the Lord! One day soon the world and all of its contents will be destroyed. Those who are materialistic are like the sailor who decided to polish the sinking ship. The problem I have is many racists who think that it is their God-given commission to bash blacks and constantly remind us that we are scum of the earth. As I anticipate the coming of Jesus, I feel sorry for these people! Is this a good enough reason for black women remaining in their comfort zone?
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Many young guys who date older women ae looking for mommies to take care of them. Older men are usually looking for young women. An old man with money thinks that he qualifies for a 20ish woman, and he WILL find one.
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how did you think this crap up?? Did you EVER hear of someone being with someone because they LIKE them and NOT because they are black.. and NO one I know of thinks of black women as on the lower end of the beauty scale. or ghetto.. maybe having a attitude more, YES.. thinking they are diva’s and more deserving YES..
and to the MEXICAN?? white guilt?? WTF!! ppl need to STOP crying over crap that happened & ENDED 156 years ago… oh boo hoo.. my ancestors STARVED too. we are not crying about it. and making blogs
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I’m attracted to guys with similar interests as me, which just so happens to be a lot of things white guys are into. some blacks, hispanics, and asians, too, but not as many. i think it’s weird for people to only be attracted to people of their race. there’s hot guys in every race.. are they blind? idc what society says, love is love. and if people can’t accept it then why would I want to associate myself with people like that. my parents seem to be wary about it because they think there’d be too many cultural differences for it to work, but honestly, i’m already a far cry from a lot of the people in my ancestral culture. I’m just trying to find someone who works with me.. you know, what we all look for
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This blog entry is idiotic and based on NO FACTS. As a white male, I have never heard anyone in my life state that black women were at the bottom of the beauty scale. What is more, I have never heard anyone state that whites think they are at the top of the beauty scale. To me this blog entry is nothing but hate against white males and is in no way constructive. Rather it is destrucitve and ignorant.
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I am a Black teenager that is attracted to White guys but I don’t think they like me. I think the ”fetish” they may have for Black women is for sex because a dating and marrying a Black woman is off limits in this society.
Most White AMerican men don’t like Black American women because they think that there is somehng wrng with them, no attracted to them, don’t like their attitudes etc.
I am pretty, smart, independent, caring, etc and they still don’t want me beause of the color of my skin. Most of them anyways. only a select few White men like and date even marry Black women.
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All the black women that I know, do not desire a white man at all. Lots of black women hate the historical fact that white men raped the black women slaves which black women are descendants of …. well, those of us who have the slave names. The lynching and burning of black people is also a a historical fact that would make any black woman stay the hell away from white men – their relative ancestors dehumanized the black slave.
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I am a Black American woman who attract white men all the time. I do not waste my time looking at them as if I want them. Please, I love black men. Why would I want someone who is pale and not handsome to me as comparison to a black man. Hell, all races of women want the black man. White men are mainly attracted to black women to experiment and use as a sex slave…. well, that is what I have learned. Only a trashy black woman who sleeps around with white men is self hating and foolish and really a disgrace to her race.Once in a blue moon a white man is sincere with a black woman but for the most part.. white men don’t give a damn about black women and will use her just like back in slavery days….
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I would add:
1) white men tend to prefer the skinny blonde ideal, big boobs rather than curvy bum. In comparison black men and latino men tend to prefer a more curvy women and don’t seem as enamored by big boobs.
As a woman of colour I normally assume I am not a white man’s ideal woman. maybe this is partly an insecurity that I some other black women may share.
2) many white men in particular english, german (northern european white men) rather than spanish, italian, turkish men (mediterranean white men) tend to lack confidence in approaching women and probably more so women that are not in their comfort zone. Some black women I know do say many white men lack swagger.
I like a man is confident, but not cocky and is not afraid to ask me out. many white men seem to mostly approach me when they are drunk, this is not necessarily the case when black men approach me.
I prefer to black, latino or meditteranean white men as I am more attracted to these type of men. I do find some white men with more northern european looks attractive, but the problem for me is that most seem to lack the confidence in approaching me that the latter men do.
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As a white man ya’ll are hysterically ignorant nascent narcissistic racist who allow the NWO to tell you how to think…you know nothing about reality and live in a cocooned world of victimization typical anti-Christian retardedness the anti-“Republican” crap is nOw of the mind numbing comments on this Republicans arent what the media claims them to be the Dems and the Reps are the same elitist leftist Globalist Big Banker run nuts who have this country on the edge of collapse…but you worship your bank accounts that have worthless paper and hypocrisy and unitelligent uniformed hypothesises on what goes on…Meanwhile I know the lied our government throws out there and HYSTERICALLY this has little impact except in immorality promoting on everyday ground level individual relationships I know Obama’s a fake a phony a liar an imbecvile and a queer I know the people around him are all Wall Street crooks and statism is a failure and how the gov lies Being a Marine Corps intel officer. Ya’ll need to start listening to Alex Jones and stop whining about White men not worshipping you as gods and being “conscious” of your racism and racial “identity” programming courtesy of the Ford Foundation the Rockefeller foundation and their media and lackeys entertainment and otherwise who spew stuff like Murder Murder Jesus like Jay-Z and flash illuminati symbolism everywhere while bragging about never having read the Bible…Typical racist kookery George S Schuyler warned about founder of the Harlem Renaissance. Your entire existence is wrapped up in socio-political-media BS and myths created to construct a victimization cult like the Nazis did to assimilate rage into a “vanguard” to attach bring about change…ya’ll are tools The premise of this question….BTW The supreme court case that overturned anti-interracial marriage laws was a WHITE MAN AND BLACK WOMAN and they simple country people from South Carolina guns God and farm peopl so in conclusion kiss my white ass
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“Those old geezers feel that way about ANY young woman, irregardless of melanin content”
Okay, I skipped ahead to the end, I’m kind of old, I feared I might forget my point and lose my steam if I didn’t speak up now. Ladies, Thad is full of shyte. The idea that you need to have sex with a guy before you can possibly hope to move to the next level of the relationship is compete and total nonsense. It is the exact wrong thing to think. Oh by the way Thad, “irregardless” is not a word. Instead use the word “regardless.”:
Thad It’s a little arrogant on your part to generalize the the motivations of all old geezers. What if the old geezer is approching to ask her if he can borrow the salt from her table?
But, I digress. The fact is that the act of sex in the animal kingdom, yes we are animals, is a terminal event.That makes it important. For some, the act is the the final act in their relationship. For others, it signals the end of one phase and the beginning of another. But for all, including the moose the birds, the humans and all the rest, it is a critical act, and as in so much of life, timing is everything. When to have sex with another person is an important decision. Thad sex is not something to be gotten out of the way so that you can move on to the really important relationship stuff like, what’s your favorite Bob Marley song.
Ladies, I can’t answer the “when” question, except as it regards Thad. In his case, based on the sum total of his contribution to the discussion this far, I would say NEVER. Sorry Thad but sweet Jesus man. If its true, and black women are finally starting to consider us white dudes for more then just easy sex (That’s a joke.), you sir, in this forum, are single handedly setting us back a 100 years.
Now I happen to be an old fat guy who is happily married. But you aren’t making it easy for young guys like my son who might like to be more then just friends with a black girl. He recently met a girl at work that he’s trying to get the nerve up to ask out. I don’t think it’s so much race based. He seem’s to need to work his nerve up to ask out any girl. Thank God he has access to the same social lubricant I used back in the day to woo his mother. A stiff drink before making the approach can go a long way in easing that long lonely walk over to her. Course my boy is such an idiot sometimes, he will probably take two drinks on lunch break, come back to the office to sweep her off her feet, with his suave game and end up getting fired by the boss for drinking on the job. One thing I do remember about young women. They like young men. But they like young men better if they have a job.
Thad remember that girl who turned you down on that first date even though it was clear to you that she really wanted to have sex with you. Well maybe, just maybe you had bad breath and she was too polite to tell you. Maybe she was on her monthlies and didn’t think it was any of your business. Maybe she said she didn’t have sex on a first date because she really does like to know someone for awhile, in a romantic boyfriend girlfriend kind of way, before she moves on to the next level. I’ll tell you one thing though, the fact that you move on, the moment you determine a woman isn’t ready to put out on your schedule, tells me you need to spend less time between women. Right now you’re spending you time going from one woman who say’s “no” on the first date to the next woman who say’s “no” on the first date. You need to spend a little time in the actual company of women. You might even learn something about them.
Alright Thad, this is me saying not to be too rattled. And I don’t really care, You can use “irregardless” all you want if it makes you happy. But it really isn’t a word. Fact is I was just a little put off that you are telling women that they should give up access to their lady parts like its no big deal. Believe me, its a big deal, always has been and always will be.
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Honestly to tell the truth, MOST Black women in AmeriKKKlan don’t like or date White men because we aren’t sexually attractive to them and most White AmeriKKKlan men don’t even like Black women enough to date us and take us home to their parents. Most of them only want to fuck a Black woman out of experimentation and lust not love.
Many people say that foreign Black women don’t mind dating White men but my mother is a proud Jamaican woman and wouldn’t ever date a White man.
In conclusion, only a FEW White men in AmeriKKKlan respect Black women or date them out of love.
I love my Black men and want a good Black man to honor and respect me and marry me one day. that is my dream and because of that, I will never date or marry a White guy especially if he lives in my racist small town. I am for the preservation of the Black race.
And I am sick of people at my school and even my mother suggesting I date White guys since I am currently single and because I am not ghetto, loud and get good grades. I have had a few White guys approach me at school and so far, I don’t like it. Even a few White guys my age are going out with Black girls. So strange.
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Hello to all my black women every where hugs and kisses all. I wish that I could split into a gazillion ME’s and marry every one of you! I am a black man and the black women like the pic above has always been the apple of my eye. There is a little Thelma in all of you on top of that inside beauty combined with that out side beauty I know because I have been married to one for the last 18yrs and if she goes before me I will get me another. There is no woman like a black woman she is in a class all by her self 🙂
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Check out some of the commentary by professor M. Belinda Tucker regarding Ralph Richard Banks controversial book, Is Marriage for White People. She critique Mr. Banks assertion that Black women should date/marry outside of the race without talking about history, stereotypes/myths, and racism toward Black women by non Black people.
Here’s her take as well as anecdotal evidence on interracial relationships between Black women and White men. She spoke the about things that we as Black women thought for the last 60 years. Here’s the excerpt from the Interracial Marriage Symposium of 2011 by Council of Contemporary Families:
“Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
“This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hyper sexualized or Big Mamas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them.
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hypersexualized or Big Mommas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has remained embedded in my consciousness, and I’m certain it has affected my assessments of the motivations of white men who pursue African American women.
‘Though Professor Banks may believe the continued loyalty expressed by African American women for African American men is misplaced, the enduring embrace of African American men establishes a boundary that is, at the very least, safe from societal rejections of Black womanhood (i.e., where standards of attractiveness and status are at least partially community defined). For, despite the near universal acceptance among Black men of interracial marriage, most married African American men have Black wives.'”
Why are some Americans are so eager to encourage Black women to widen out without counting the costs of doing so? Without talking about the painful history of interracial relationships in America?
S.B.
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Reblogged this on Steph's Blog and commented:
Check out some of the commentary by professor M. Belinda Tucker regarding Ralph Richard Banks controversial book, Is Marriage for White People. She critique Mr. Banks assertion that Black women should date/marry outside of the race without talking about history, stereotypes/myths, and racism toward Black women by non Black people.
Here’s her take as well as anecdotal evidence on interracial relationships between Black women and White men. She spoke the about things that we as Black women thought for the last 60 years. Here’s the excerpt from the Interracial Marriage Symposium of 2011 by Council of Contemporary Families:
“Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
“This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hyper sexualized or Big Mamas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them.
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hypersexualized or Big Mommas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has remained embedded in my consciousness, and I’m certain it has affected my assessments of the motivations of white men who pursue African American women.
‘Though Professor Banks may believe the continued loyalty expressed by African American women for African American men is misplaced, the enduring embrace of African American men establishes a boundary that is, at the very least, safe from societal rejections of Black womanhood (i.e., where standards of attractiveness and status are at least partially community defined). For, despite the near universal acceptance among Black men of interracial marriage, most married African American men have Black wives.’”
Why are some Americans are so eager to encourage Black women to widen out without counting the costs of doing so? Without talking about the painful history of interracial relationships in America?
S.B.
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white people like gen x and before it was different it was all separated outside of the cities of america
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I’m a street educated and college educated white man(from Scandinavia) and I hold racial views normally. let’s say that I chose to change, what or who would these women be
The answer is actually pretty clear for me
Arab women or Black African women.. why ? because they are more aggressive(and more than their own men lol) and they can cook and clean and in fact LOVE DOING IT and even will stop you from doing it even know I can make food without problems but its okay for me if they want to make the food but the fact that it’s just normal for them and not something they turn into a gender issue that says alot about them and also another thing about them is that they are fucking loyal and very rare unstable and the fact that their men hit often tend to hit them says alot about them and they such people no matter what race they are if you’re a low level man who hit women, I will eat you alive trust me ! There is one rule and that rule is : YOU NEVER HIT WOMEN and I don’t care if a women hit you , you never hit women. If women hit you then just stay calm and prevent her from hitting you by lift her up in the air and kiss her, depending on the situation make fun with her and she will feel bad about herself or either show attitude toward her and hit the wall around them while kissing them (show them that you are king) but never never EVER hit a women !
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