In Haiti the 2010s opened with utter tragedy: last week on Tuesday January 12th 2010 at 21:53 GMT the strongest Caribbean earthquake in over 60 years struck Haiti. In the first six days 70,000 bodies were found and, unnamed, have been put into mass graves.
Up to 200,000 are feared dead. That would make it the deadliest natural disaster the world has seen since the tsunami in 2004, which killed 230,000.
The earthquake, measuring 7.0, struck not far from the capital, Port-au-Prince. That is a bad quake, but in a richer, better built city only a few dozen would have died. Even so, the quake killed few outright: instead people have been dying of their injuries because the damage has kept help from reaching them in time.
It destroyed 80% of the buildings in the capital, among them the president’s palace, government buildings, the cathedral, the United Nations mission, the main prison, most of the hospitals, even the main one. The archbishop was killed, so was the head of the UN mission, but not the president and his wife. Surprisingly, those living in shanty towns were less affected: a tin roof falling on you is not as deadly as concrete.
It knocked out the seaport and blocked all the roads, though main roads in the capital are now clear.
The airport is still open but, with only one runway and a damaged air traffic control tower, it is slow going.
People are living in tents and cars: the buildings are no longer safe.
To give you an idea of the scale, at 70,000 dead it is already 15 times worse than 9/11 and Katrina put together.
It is so bad that it is beyond the power of even television to overstate. The smell of dead bodies is everywhere.
America is sending 10,000 troops and air dropping food and water. Many other countries are sending help too, but the damage means getting that help to people will be slow.
The Americans will probably find themselves keeping law and order as well: the government is not in control of the country and it is too much for the police. People are desperate for food and water. On top of all that, 3,000 have escaped from prison, among them infamous gang leaders.
Both France and America will stop sending Haitians back to Haiti for a time. Senegal has offered free land for Haitians who move there!
Haiti has had few earthquakes over the past 40 years. Too few: the fault line that it lies on was locked, the strain on it building to dangerous levels. It was ovedue for a big one of just this size.
Pat Robertson, an American television preacher, saw it differently:
Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and the people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. And they (Haitians) got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, “We will serve you if you get us free from the French.” True story. And so the devil said, “OK, it’s a deal!”
Postscript: The earthquake killed 159,000, making it the second deadliest natural disaster of the past 30 years and the worst earthquake on record in the Americas.
See also:
Abagond 
What happened in Haiti is such a great tragedy and I don’t think posting my comments on any blog will help those people. So I won’t talk about the tragedy; sad smilies and words “oooh, horrible, I am so sorry” sound disrespectful.
So I’ll just talk about those TV idiots. Excuse me- but what are they talking about? Are some people just plain mean, or idiots, or what?
I am read so many ugly things these days, and it’s just horrible. It’s all down to: “It’s their fault. It’s their fault for being poor, messed, black, evil, had pact with devil, etc. It’s their fault, but fear not, we will help! We will help, because we are good and always there to help those in need!”
I remember somewhat similar thing happened after earthquake in China in 2008. Some people said they got what deserved because they didn’t want to free Tibet.
Also, some even think black people somehow “got what they deserved” in Katrina.
On the other hand, not many people thought America in general got “what it deserved” in 9/11 (plus, it’s the only thing mentioned here that’s not a natural disaster).
See, this is the reason I rarely watch TV. I just can’t stand propaganda.
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pat and rush and other republicans need to be careful of the hate they spew…america is home to several different natural disasters (hurricanes, volcanoes, tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, blizzards, avalanches, wildfires etc).
i don’t want those creeps in my state when karma decides to bite them in the butt for their hateful comments about the haitians.
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I think it was really great of senegal to offer up free land I was so happy when I read that yesterday. I always thought that all the west african countries should give some sort of free land.;
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abagond, you wrote:
“The earthquake, measuring 7.0… That is a bad quake, but in a richer, better built city only a few dozen would have died…people have been dying of their injuries because the damage has kept help from reaching them in time.”
There is only one reason for the mass death: Bad Government.
All of Haiti’s problems stem from its inability to govern itself. Without a total change in Haiti’s culture, the same misery will reappear and when the next natural disaster strikes.
St Croix was hit by Hurricane Andrew in 1989. The town of Fredericksted, which is mostly black, is still a mess. Some of the debris from the 1989 storm is still piled where it landed when buildings collapsed.
Will Haitians save their country? Or do the usual nothing?
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This is so sad this is my mothers country. Haiti already has been through so much. Abagond do you know If there is any aid comming to Jacmel Haiti my uncle in haiti says houses have fallen over there and people are still trapped underneath them. If you find any news that aid is going there please send me a link. Thank you
and I hope that you don’t belive in that garbage pat robertson is spewing.
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I am so proud to see Senegal offering free land!! How generous!!
Alot of British and French have gone there and have fallen in love with the place!
on TRIPADVISOR, I read some reviews on it. An american who has lived there for 10 years stated that crime didn’t compare to the western countries and they felt safer in Dakkar than the USA.
It is 2nd as the country with the lowest murder rate.(Iceland was first)
It is also being touted as a place to invest as it is stable.
http://www.investinsenegal.com/US/why_1.html
The culture of the Senegales is fascinating as well, the formality in greeting people, showing respect for elders, the strong family unit. If the Haitians move there, they will never leave! The people will embrace them as their own!!
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No_slappz
you fool you have no idea what is going on the in that country right now. More hatian people are freeing themselves out of the rubble than the aid workers who have come to help them. My uncle is their and tells me he sees none where he is.
The media is lying when they say the people are not doing anything. It sickens me to see them exploit all those dead bodies, they are showing dead babies and children, completely dehumanizing them. these are PEOPLE and the families of these people deserve respect. I keep telling my mother not to watch the images they broadcast on television because it would upset her. when I was in haiti 7 years ago I was 11 and saw that there was proverty but it was still a beautiful place. The media keeps mentioning of how they are poor, as if being poor gives them the right to showcase their bodies this way. It is disgusting the way the American media is broadcasting this earthquake!
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Sorry for the typos abagond I am typing my posts from my iPhone.
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And No Slappz, everyone but the Haitian people controls what goes on in their government. It is sad but true
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Not a hater:
1. From an iPhone? Cool. I am jealous.
2. No, I do not believe what Pat Robertson says.
3. Good point about the bodies. When was the last time you saw the dead bodies of white people like that on television? It is not like they do not die in natural disasters or something.
4. Jacmel was hit by the earthquake just as hard as the capital, but it does not get any near the same attention and help. There was, however, this story in the Miami Herald:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/haiti/story/1428351.html
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grena,
Senegal is a muslim country that suffers from the usual African dirty-water problem. There is a huge death toll from bad water, the infant death-rate is astronomical and the median age of the population is 19.
Do you know what that means? Half the population is younger than 19 — and they are ILLITERATE.
The country cannot produce enough of anything to supply its internal needs. People want to leave as fast as possible.
The per-capita GDP is $1,600. That means if you go there with $1,600 you can live very nicely for a year. Or, as nice as it is possible to live in Senegal.
By the way, the Official Unemployment rate is about 50% — Fifty Per Cent. Thus, I do not believe the claims of low crime rates in Senegal. On the other hand, because it is a muslim country, anyone caught stealing probably has his hand cut off.
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the lack of empathy makes me want to vomit.
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abagond, you wrote:
“When was the last time you saw the dead bodies of white people like that on television? It is not like they do not die in natural disasters or something.”
When was the last time there were bodies of large numbers of whites to photograph?
I can give you one example. Jonestown in South America. Do you know the story? 1979.
Here’s another: 9/11, when to escape the flames, people were videotaped jumping from the top floors of the World Trade Center.
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Almost 3,000 died on 9/11. I do not remember seeing any bodies on television.
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Nudge-nudge to Abagond ha ha
I thought the Jonestown massacre was predominantly Blacks that took their lives
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abagond, you wrote:
“I do not remember seeing any bodies on television.”
The bodies were the bodies of people jumping from the top of the World Trade Center. Video was taken by the helicopters nearby and from other cameras in the area.
When the jumpers hit the ground they splattered. Thus, there was no “body” per se for TV cameras to show. But the jumpers were shown leaping into the air from 1,000 feet above the street and plaza where they landed.
As for the 2,700 who died at the World Trade Center, well, almost all of their bodies were incinerated in the collapsed and burning buildings. There were media people everywhere expectings shots of dead and wounded. Instead, there was almost nothing, because all the bodies were consumed in the fire.
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J,
You must be joking. Jonestown could have been 100% white. All religious nuts from the US who drank poison and died.
The scene was heavily photographed.
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No Slappz said:
“When the jumpers hit the ground they splattered. Thus, there was no “body” per se for TV cameras to show. But the jumpers were shown leaping into the air from 1,000 feet above the street and plaza where they landed.”
They had PLENTY of human remains from the World Trade Center, but they showed none of it on television. Why is that?
And what about the bodies from the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania? Did they all burn up too into nothing?
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abagond, here’s a tidbit for you. My office was on the 47th floor of Tower One at the World Trade Center. That was the tower with the big antenna on top.
So here’s what happened. There was complete video coverage and photos of the jumpers. The video was on TV and photos were in the newspapers.
After bodies began hitting the ground near the buildings people on the ground realized it was time to run.
Meanwhile, one thing you cannot see in an aircraft is the ground beneath the aircraft. Photographers in the helicopters could not get shots of the splattered bodies. People on the ground were concerned with staying alive.
When the buildings fell, the area where the bodies had landed was covered in smoldering debris. Thus, unlike Haiti, there was no chance to get close to the dead to take pictures.
The police, fire departments took immediate control of the ares. A couple of hours later the military arrived and set up a perimeter around the area. No one other than rescue personnel was given access after about 11 am.
Second, the fires burned and smoldered for days, consuming most of the bodies in the rubble.
Third, flying around the area was banned. All US aircraft were ordered out of the sky in the first couple of hours after the attack. Thus, no one was taking photos from helicopters flying over the site.
The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was going about 500 mph when it crashed into the ground at a steep angle. It left a hole in the ground and burned, leaving little in the way of human remains. There were no bodies scattered around a field.
At first, searchers were confused because they could not find a big jet. They were surprised and shocked when they found it deeply embedded in the earth. At first no one believed it was in the hole because the hole seemed to small. But there it was.
As with all crashes of commercial planes, the National Transportation Safety agency took control of the site. In this case the FBI was also part of things. Thus, only people with official business were allowed near the site. Official business did NOT include new photographers.
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So you are saying the reason we see the bodies in Haiti is because it is beyond anyone’s control to prevent it?
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Abagond I agree with you. I have not seen the media show dead bodies of White people, the way they are showing it now after the earthquake in Haiti. It’s dehumanization.
Thanks for the article it scares me to death that aid is not in jacmel my mom reached my uncle 2 days ago and he said it was really bad, imagine how bad it is now.
everytime I watch CNN they keep showing the disaster I want to hear some more survival stories. I am just furious the way the media is showcasing these people, it really sickens me.
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abagond, you wrote:
“So you are saying the reason we see the bodies in Haiti is because it is beyond anyone’s control to prevent it?”
That’s about the size of it. Police, fire, rescue and military personnel usually chase away photographers except those who are taking official shots.
We have a free press in the US — that means the government cannot prohibit media outlets from showing graphic scenes. But various security agencies can make it impossible to get close enough to take a decent picture.
A famous NY Daily News photographer — known as Weegee — compiled his best photos into a book. One was a shot of a woman who had jumped off a tall building in Manhattan. She landed on the roof of a car, and he photographed her there, dead.
Photos of bloody bullet-riddled bodies of mafia murder victims in NY City have appeared in the local papers as long as the mafia has been in operation here.
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With regard to:
“You must be joking. Jonestown could have been 100% white. All religious nuts from the US who drank poison and died.
The scene was heavily photographed”
1. The Jonestown Massacre of 1978 by Jim Jones was not a mass suicide but a MK ULTRA mind control experiment using innocent Black people.
Jim Jones got the names of mostly poor, widowed Black women from the San Francisco County Department of Social Services (welfare). He made these innocent but ignorant and poor Black women turn over all their assets to him and his People’s Temple.
Jones had more than 900 Blacks and 200 whites in his cult. The Blacks were the victims (guinea pigs) and the whites served as his government officials.
http://www.blackwebportal.com/nuforums/vm.cfm?Forum=37&Topic=830
2.
Others believe that Jonestown was a racist plot to exterminate blacks, since most of the cult’s leadership was white and most of the followers were black.
http://everything2.com/title/Jonestown+Massacre
3. And the reason for choosing Guyana
[15] Carter said the Temple concluded that Guyana, a predominantly black, English-speaking socialist country, would afford black members of the Temple a peaceful place to live.[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
And just imagine we would have nearly got away with it, if it was NOT for those pesky kids… Scoooooooooby Dooooo
ha ha ha
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The haitian tragedy is terrible. It’s even sadder because now the world will have to look at the povery and conditions that some Haitian people were forced to live under while no one ever did a thing until something like this happened. I am glad Senegal is offering up free land. The NAACP ought to do something, I’m sure they won’t though. NAACP never does anything, I worked there for sometime they dont’ even answer the phone. Anyway, its great America is doing something atleast. Pat Robeson is senile anyway. Someone ought to shut him up. Really though, my prayers go out to the Haitian people and families and those affected by the earthquake. I hope people give if they can cause they need the money.
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This is a depressing topic. Out of respect for the people all I’m going to say is that there are some vides on youtube from September 11th of the jumpers and in some of them you can see that it would be very difficult to photograph the deceased people on the ground that’s all I’m going to say.
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It breaks my heart to see all the people affected by the earthquake. I wanted to do all I can to help out so I organized a bake sale with my co-workers at work. All the proceeds will go directly to the local Red Cross to support those in need in Haiti. I wish I could do more.
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Pardon my language, but FCUK Pat Robertson and his ilk! This is not about religion. This is about people needing our help. This is about compassion for our fellow man. Screw that man!
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“All of Haiti’s problems stem from its inability to govern itself. Without a total change in Haiti’s culture, the same misery will reappear and when the next natural disaster strikes.”
Response:
I don’t think the Haitian people are innately less capable of governing themselves. They just don’t have the same access to the necessary tools to prevent such a tragedy. When you’re in a coutry where the economy is exploited by foreign countries and coming from a history of exploitation like Haiti, it can be difficult to be at the top of your game in terms of the economy, don’t you think?
Also look at the US and it inability to govern itself during Katrina and there was no excuse for that, we HAD the available means to improve the situation much more quickly than we did. I guess the US had a bad government then too huh?
I’ll bet you anything that Haitian people are doing all they can to work with what they have to improve their situaiton. They are human first and foremost ofcourse you’re going to do all you can to survive and help others survive in a time like this.
Human emotion is human emotion and when in distress its natural to want to improve your situation. I agree they need to show some more Haitian people surviving and overcoming this situation as best they can.
That’s all I am saying to that comment and the like from this point on. Stop criticizing people in a desperate situation. I’m sick of it we’re all human.
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I notice that no slappz seems to get *angry* if anyone mentions *anything* positive about a black country. Isn’t that interesting? He has some issues, for sure.
I’m sure slappz knowledge of Senegal is about as shallow as spit on a sidewalk and what he knows about the place he probably googled 2 mins before posting. I bet he wouldn’t even know the name of the capital or head of state without first looking it up. Secondly, the point is that Senegal made a generous offer of land to Haitians. Why isn’t slappz praising them for their act of generosity, rather than putting down their standard of living. Besides, the standard of living I’m sure is an improvement if you’re coming from Haiti.
As for the situation in Haiti itself, I would agree with slappz about one thing and that’s that Haiti’s woulds are self-inflicted. If you look at the GDP purchasing price parity of Haiti compared to other black Caribbean islands, is very, very far behind what it should be. Jamaica may be poor compared to the U.S., but the people are well fed, clothed and it has a functioning, stable government. I was looking at the GDPs of other black Caribbean nations and most of them are no worse off than most South American nations or Mexico. Not rich countries, but not destitute either. Haiti is the exception, it cannot pull it together. Race is not the reason. Colonialism is not the reason. Other black former colonial countries in the region have GDPs 10-20x what Haiti has.
What Haiti lacks is both exploitable resources AND lack of human capital. You can have some success with the first. It’s hard to have success without the latter. Ideally a country would have both, like the U.S. Haiti has neither. No oil, destroyed environment, nothing to export. Singapore has nothing, but the people have skills, so they are the human capital. Haiti has no human capital whatsoever. So we can all send our little $10 via text message and think we’ve done our part, but it will be like pouring money into a bucket with a hole in the bottom. I sent my donation anyway, but I don’t expect any lasting change until they deal with the human capital issue.
What makes Haiti different is that it is the only country in the Americas to go directly from slavery to independence. Most went from slavery, colonialism, then to independence. This transition allowed the former slaves to learn western style government and economics. Haitians didn’t. They repelled the French and then you had a country of uneducated slaves that now had to figure out what to do. Sanctions were placed on Haiti by the west and they could not trade anything. It all went downhill from there and has never recovered.
Sending food, water and medicine will help short term, but it’s like putting a band aid over skin cancer. What I want to hear is how will Haiti develop human capital that will allow them to be a self-sustaining nation that is not dependent on foreign aid. I want to hear about a path out of dependence.
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Correction: NAACP is doing something for Haiti. What a pleasant suprise:
http://www.naacp.org/news/press/2010-01-13/index.htm
I don’t know maybe I’m just biased against NAACP because I’ve had bad experiences with them and they’re stationed in a predominately black city that also happens to be a city with one of the worst murder rates in the country and I feel they don’t do enough at all. but I gotta congratulate them on being proactiv on this one. Very pleased, hope they can follow through with their plans and do more in the future.
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With regard to a comment made earlier about Haiti. The African-centred perspective would move away from Haiti’s current position being self-inflicted (ie blame the victim syndrome).
To sum it up in a few words as possible:
Haiti’s problem is/was ‘colonialism’ and today it is ‘neo-colonialism’, in the words utilised by the late Kwame Nkrumah
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A few reasons why Haitians remained poor after slavery were
1.
France forced them to pay 21 billion dollars (in todays money) for reparations. This debt crippled Haiti and took 120 years to pay off. They actually went a bill (down tothe last cent) a few years ago to France to get the money BACK! They were pursuing France for having the guts to charge them.
2. Thes people had been abused, beaten, illiterate and did not have intact families. Breakdown offamily is breakdown of society.There’s talk here of Broken Britain. The reason? High illiteracy here, high divorce,poverty, breakdown of families,high out of wedlock rates! People are moving out of here running to other countries like the USA and Canada because things are so bad. Britain ranks virtually at the bottom (for European countries) for quality of life, crime,stability,etc…
3. NOBODY wanted to trade with Haiti. Countries would not give Haiti their goods. France also imposed a law where anything coming out of Haiti for export was reduced by 50 percent.
Very very sick!!
3.
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I’m an avid traveler. One thing I have noticed is that we are always given a slanted view in the news when it comes to race. Black people were called looters but the White people we were told were just trying to feed themselves. I also noticed how Europe is glamorized. But i’ve stayed with wealthy Italians, middle class Switzerland, France, Holland, Uk, etc. A large majority cannot heat up their house(if they can even afford one). Renting cold tiny apartments are the norm till you die in Switzerland, Italy,Germany and many others. Dryers are rarely used. They can’t afford it! Food is also very sparse in restaurants and overpriced so noone can afford to eat out every often. Advice: Never assume because a country is ‘wealthy’ that it has quality of life! As much as I like Europe, the quality of life isn’t good enough for me as a Black person to stay and live permanentl y. It’ll be the Caribbean, Africa or South America for me!!
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‘True story’…….
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Brazil’s involved in Haiti up to our collective eyeballs: our military commands the U.N. mission there.
Several famous Brazilians were killed or wounded during the earthquake, including Zilda Arns, basically our Mother Teresa…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilda_Arns
Incoming freshmen classes go through hazing rituals here in Brazil. At my university this year, we’re going to paint them up and set them loose in the rich neighborhoods to collect funds for Haiti disaster relief.
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j,
The people in Jonestown were both white and black. From photos it looks as though the the half the dead were black and half were white.
As for everything else you mentioned, sorry, but it’s all conspiracy-theory nonsense.
Jones was a crazy man who had the charisma to draw thousands into his madness.
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j, you wrote:
“Haiti’s problem is/was ‘colonialism’ and today it is ‘neo-colonialism’, in the words utilised by the late Kwame Nkrumah”
Yeah. Sure. How long ago did the colonialists in Haiti leave?
Attempting excuse the current ongoing and devasting failure of Haiti by claiming its problems result from colonialism is another way of saying things will NEVER improve.
Since the past cannot be changed, it appears Haitians believe their future is forever doomed.
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tulio, you wrote:
“Secondly, the point is that Senegal made a generous offer of land to Haitians.”
The offer is anything but generous. It’s a bad deal. Maybe if Senegal had sent a ship or plane to pick-up Haitians and bring them to their new free homes, the offer would mean something. But offering land — Free Land. Not a free house on free land — means nothing to people who would have to swim the Atlantic to get there. It’s a joke.
You wrote:
“Why isn’t slappz praising them for their act of generosity, rather than putting down their standard of living.”
The offer is nothing but grandstanding. Here’s a bet. I say NOT ONE Haitian will go to Senegal and get the free land.
You wrote:
“Besides, the standard of living I’m sure is an improvement if you’re coming from Haiti.”
Here’s how you compare standards of living — you compare GDP figures. Gross Domestic Product.
For Senegal it is $1,600. For Haiti, it is $1,300. The two nations are almost equally miserable.
Furthermore, the numbers on Haiti are fuzzy. The country gets about one-third of its funding from external sources — like Haitians who live in the US and send money to relatives in Haiti who are unable to get visas to get the heck out.
Both countries are dumps and the people who live in them desperately want to leave. That’s why the Senegalese government can give land — free — to new arrivals. It has no value.
Both countries have terrible disease problems because neither can provide adequate supplies of clean drinking water.
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With regard to:
The people in Jonestown were both white and black. From photos it looks as though the the half the dead were black and half were white.
As for everything else you mentioned, sorry, but it’s all conspiracy-theory nonsense.
I gave you data, that you could have researched to see whether the premise that most of the people who took their lives in that unfortunate massacre was Black.
Irrespective of the conspiracy theories, it was not my aim to establish the validity of it or not.
However, even you must agree (even if you choose not do it here openly).
The reason why some view it as a conspiracy theory designed against Black people, is because the vast majority of the people who died were Black.
So by a process of logic – most of its constituents must have been Black to make it people claim this to be a ‘Black conspiracy theory’.
And this take us back round full circle. If the vast majority of his members were Black. Then presumably – utilising your logical reasoning here- most who died would have been Black.
My concern is that if most of its members were Black, and
it was they who committed suicide – How is It possible to have all these White bodies on the TV??
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peanut, you wrote:
“I don’t think the Haitian people are innately less capable of governing themselves.”
Really? Haiti has 200 years of independent history that says you are wrong.
The country has been independent almost as long as the US.
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leigh204, you wrote:
“Pardon my language, but FCUK Pat Robertson and his ilk! This is not about religion.”
Not about religion? I see. So you care about comments from Pat Robertson, who is a gasbag religious leader with no influence on life in Haiti, but you apparently do not care about the fact that half of all Haitians practice Voodoo.
Haitians have big problems because they do nothing to prevent big problems. Instead of learning how to build safe buildings, they practice Voodoo.
This is what happens when people choose ignorance over learning. No big secrets here. Just simple reality.
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@ no_slappz
So what classifies Voodoo as an ignorant waste of time furthermore are you implying all religious beliefs are a waste of time, or just voodoo?
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Well, some cultures did try to ditch religion altogether. It didn’t work well. Personal atheism do exist and can work, but it’s impossible to organize a non-religious country.
Wait… Oh, you were talking about voodoo, not other, “normal” religions, right?
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I’ll take a wild guess and say he’s referring to voodoo.
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I don’t know what to say about Haiti.
Its horrifying.
Can’t imagine what it must be in a situation like that.
All I can hope is that in a few weeks time people don’t forget about Haiti… Its going to take a long time to get the countries infrastructure to a decent level.
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There was another earthquake.
Those people need help and unconditional support. Meaning: do not use them for propaganda, do not dehumanize them. Just help- really help, and stfu about it.
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We all know good and well that voudou does not cause earthquakes.
According to the Haitian ambassador here in Brazil, it does! 😀
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LOL@no_slappz. Some blithering, full of hot air windbag has nothing better to do than to pick apart comments. Blah. Blah. Blah.
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@Leigh:
Slappz is trying to get as many posts in just in case he is banned, LOL! If you want real gut wrenching laughs, go to his site and read some of the comments where he is routinely cussed out and told not to return to certain blogs. One particular post, had over one hundred responses in Japanese, that one had me howling with laughter, it was tears inducing and not the ones brought on by sorrow, but hilarity! Since he doesn’t get much responses on his blog, is it a wonder that he chooses to post so much on this one? With this in mind I would either ignore him or make some flippant remark such as the one you wrote. He also seems to be spammed constantly, but hey, freedom of speech right?
@Slappz:
Are you lonesome tonight dar de do dar de dar, tell me slappz are you lonesome tonight? Dar do do dar de da, dar de do dar de da, tell me slappz are you lonesome toniiigght! A little song I composed for you dear!
Slappz, you bring out the tomfoolery in me, thanks!
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@Herneith:
Really? Now that’s funny as hell. Although I’m not interested in what a windbag would say on his blog, I’ll take your word for it! LOL!
Indeed. no_slappz reminds me of a court jester. A simple clown who would play the fool simply to amuse people. Very droll.
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I hate it when certain people somehow feel the need to point out how screwed up Haiti is, even at such a terrible moment as this, AND THEN SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about America’s hand in Haiti’s history. It is just: “Haiti has been independent for over 200 years” and “It has no building codes”. And, “Look how America is helping Haiti now! What a nice country it is!” Blah blah blah.
It is crypto-racist and crypto-imperialist.
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atelierboz, you wrote:
“So what classifies Voodoo as an ignorant waste of time furthermore are you implying all religious beliefs are a waste of time, or just voodoo?”
When the people of a nation devote their energy to following a religion — any religion — over pursuits that can actually improve the quality of life in a nation — like education — then the religious pursuit is a dangerous, destructive and wasteful effort.
When cultures began pushing back against the controlling forces or religion and began to put some faith in human ingenuity, prosperity began to arrive.
This fact is no secret. But it is widely denied in third-world countries. Islamic nations are doing their best to return to the 7th century. Some of them may get there.
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With regard to:
“Haiti’s problem is/was ‘colonialism’ and today it is ‘neo-colonialism’, in the words utilised by the late Kwame Nkrumah”
Yeah. Sure. How long ago did the colonialists in Haiti leave?
Attempting excuse the current ongoing and devasting failure of Haiti by claiming its problems result from colonialism is another way of saying things will NEVER improve.
Since the past cannot be changed, it appears Haitians believe their future is forever doomed”.
I think the question you should be asking is WHEN are the
neo-colonialists (with all their machinations) going to leave Haiti??
You appeared to miss this very important point.
I note the ‘adapative expectation’ or ‘induction’ in your last paragraph.
With regard to that the neo-colonialists surely hope that things will remain the same. However, one thing about the world that is constant…and that is nothing remains the same. We live in a world of changes
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And this is one perspective from Jamaica on Haiti
No, Mister! You Cannot Share My Pain!
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Maxwell-Jan-17
And a lovely song by Mutabaruka made in the 90s
Haiti
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Not sure this point came out here
Robertson did apologise by saying that he thought it
was ‘Hades’ (in this context ‘Hell’).
Since there is no country call Hades.
This raises the question of niavety for those who can believe such nonsense.
http://www.creators.com/liberal/andy-borowitz.html
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no_slappz sez:
When the people of a nation devote their energy to following a religion — any religion — over pursuits that can actually improve the quality of life in a nation — like education — then the religious pursuit is a dangerous, destructive and wasteful effort.
Thanks for explaining to us what’s going on in the U.S. these days, NS. My question to you, then, is why do you think that the Republicans support this sort of thing?
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thaddeus blanchette, you wrote:
“Thanks for explaining to us what’s going on in the U.S. these days, NS. My question to you, then, is why do you think that the Republicans support this sort of thing?”
I suppose you are asking a serious question, which, by your asking says a lot about what you do not know.
Even though you seem to believe that it means religious issues dominate US life simply because stories tied to religion appear on the front pages of some newspapers, that is not the case.
Religion does not stand in the way of the factors that have made the US prosperous. Science and technology go forward without the slightest drag applied by religion.
Whereas, in Haiti, prosperity is always out of reach because too many Haitians believe life is controlled by imaginary forces.
As for what Republicans support, it is clear you have no idea. Moreover, now that Scott Brown has been elected to the Senate, the dynamics of US politics has shifted, and the shift is bad news for Obama.
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j, you wrote:
“However, one thing about the world that is constant…and that is nothing remains the same. We live in a world of changes.”
A changing world. Except in places like Haiti, where life has been constantly brutal for the 200 years since its independence.
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America is one of the most religious countries on earth, so I don’t know where you’re going with this one. The fact that loons like Pat Robertson and those that make up the “religious right” were such a powerful lobby for the last 8 years until Obama says something.
I don’t think you know anything about Voodoo whatsoever. I’m no expect on the topic either, but I do know enough to know that I don’t know much about it and that the popular image of Voodoo that people have is patently false. It’s not much different than Santoria or Candomble in S. Africa, just a mixture of Catholicism and some West African beliefs. The image of Haitians running around sticking pins in dolls and other bullshit came from old Hollywood imagery.
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Isn’t astrology popular here in the western world? It was said that Ronald Reagan and his wife used astrology to make decisions when he was present. How about the Ouija board? Or how Catholics pray to their Saints and statues(which is looked on as idolatry in other religions). Also rosary beads aren’t Biblical either…Spiritism/voodoo is practiced all over the world. They just have a different name for it.
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@tulio
America is one of the most religious countries on earth, so I don’t know where you’re going with this one.
I agree. Well, at least that’s how America seems to me. I might be wrong, though. On the other hand, what are chances of an atheist to become a US president?
PS-I am not an atheist, I’m just asking.
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Even though you seem to believe that it means religious issues dominate US life simply because stories tied to religion appear on the front pages of some newspapers, that is not the case.
So the media is lying and distoprting reality in the case of the U.S., but reporting it 100% honestly in the case of Haiti, is that it, No Slappz?
Religion does not stand in the way of the factors that have made the US prosperous. Science and technology go forward without the slightest drag applied by religion.
How is voodoo – rather than, say, lack of any research infrastructure whatsoever – preventing science and technology in Haiti?
Whereas, in Haiti, prosperity is always out of reach because too many Haitians believe life is controlled by imaginary forces.
Imaginary forces like, say, The Market…? 😀
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BtW, Satan has finally weighed in on the Haiti earthquake. I reposted his letter to the Minneapolis Star Tribune over on my blog last night:
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/satan-responds-to-pat-robertson-in.html
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tulio, you wrote:
“America is one of the most religious countries on earth, so I don’t know where you’re going with this one.”
You seem totally ignorant of the difference between people admitting they identify and perhaps follow or practice a religion AND what it means when a religion controls or defines the government.
The US may be home to a huge percentage of people who identify themselves as Christians. But unlike muslim theocracies, there is virtually no connection between the contents of the Bible and the laws we enact.
This is the essence of Separation of Church and State. In muslim theocracies it is the opposite. Laws are derived by interpreting the babble of Muhammad in the Koran and the Haditha.
You wrote:
“The fact that loons like Pat Robertson and those that make up the “religious right” were such a powerful lobby for the last 8 years until Obama says something.”
What did Pat Robertson and the “religious right” lobby for? The fact that a group of citizens sharing a common religious outlook choose to support or promote specific policies and politicians is democracy in action.
Their chief issue is abortion. The religious right opposes it, but, as you can tell, their opposition has failed and will continue to fail. Even if Roe v. Wade is overturned, each state will have the right to establish its own abortion law. Thus, even in a worst-case scenario, almost all states would enact their own laws permitting abortion.
As lobbying forces go, it is obvious the religious right is weak.
What else has the “religious right” supported?
Answer: Nothing Consequential.
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thaddeus blanchette, you wrote:
“So the media is lying and distoprting reality in the case of the U.S., but reporting it 100% honestly in the case of Haiti, is that it, No Slappz?”
Headlines may be factual. Or they may be filled with ridiculous speculation. Some of the headlines from Haiti have been factual — like the headlines citing physical damage caused by the earthquake. Some moved toward speculation — like the early headlines guessing the death toll was as high as 500,000.
Unfortunately, due to the complete lack of healthcare facilities and infrastructure, the death toll will climb. Victims who would live if medical care were to reach them will die from treatable infections, gangrene and other routine medical problems. Still, the death toll will fall far short of 500,000.
Have you noticed the foolish babbling about Global Warming has disappeared. This nonsense filled the headlines until recently when it was discovered that many of the scientists publishing reports about Global Warming had been falsifying their data. Since then, even the UN has acknowledged that Global Warming is a hoax.
You wrote:
How is voodoo – rather than, say, lack of any research infrastructure whatsoever – preventing science and technology in Haiti?
A place reflects the beliefs of its residents. Most Haitians believe in voodoo. They do not believe in science and technology, a fact made clear by the low academic achievement of the population.
As a result of the dominance of voodoo and other religions in the culture of Haiti, the Haitians do not study and embrace academic subjects capable of enriching their lives. Devotion to voodoo and other religions has crowded out the knowledge they need. They have demonstrated that their faith is in beliefs that bring societal failure — and despite the obvious link between their beliefs and their economic failure, they do not change.
The productivity of the Haitian workforce is about as low as productivity gets in this world. That is why factories are not built in Haiti. Haitians will work for extremely low wages. But even though they work cheap, their productivity is so low that factory owners cannot earn a profit. Hence, they go to other countries for labor. Like Mexico.
You wrote:
“Imaginary forces like, say, The Market…? ”
Your statement is an admission you know nothing about economics. This is a big problem in the world. It is an especially big problem for blacks who have many bizarre ideas about the functioning of economies. Unfortunately, far too many blacks believe governments can mandate prosperity.
It can’t. Government can provide the environment for prosperity to evolve. And when government establishes the proper setting, prosperity always arrives.
The hapless and incompetent government of Haiti has failed — for 200 years — to correctly set the stage for prosperity. The endless cycle of failure has given the world a country that has fallen apart as a result of a natural catastrophe.
Unless Haiti changes radically, its residents will suffer the same fate the next time Nature strikes.
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Have you noticed the foolish babbling about Global Warming has disappeared.
Er, no it hasn’t, Slappies. What color is the sky in your universe today?
Nor have you answered my question, have you? What’s a matter? Was it too difficult or do you juist have trouble staying on target?
A place reflects the beliefs of its residents. Most Haitians believe in voodoo. They do not believe in science and technology, a fact made clear by the low academic achievement of the population.
Belief in religion does not logically preclude belief in science, first of all. But what I’d like to know is how low academic achievement cis caused by beliefs, say, rather than lack of resources to build decent schools. Explain.
Your statement is an admission you know nothing about economics.
Wrong. “Invisible hand”? Give me a break. The Market is as an imaginary an entity as any orixá. If it weren’t we could directly observe it, right?
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I’d like to appologize to all the members of Abagond’s blogging community for my recent bizarre behavior. You see, aside from suffering from Aspergers, I also have a split personality.
Because of this and as partial repayment for my behavior, in the upcoming days I will be translating my other half’s posts into more rational language.
Hope you enjoy!
Snuffle, snuffle, lick, lick,lick….
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They invade those people’s space and get so close up. Yesterday, there was a little boy who was naked with just a little tissue covering essential areas.
That is ridiculous! Give those people some privacy.
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Agreed
It’s ridiculous and sad, they show those poor people in the most degrading and undignified ways, and highlight how the mighty British forces should be heralded for pulling out yet another near naked woman from the rubble!
They really do good close up money shots.
I can’t watch anymore, I just can’t
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thaddeus blanchette, you wrote:
“Er, no it hasn’t, Slappies. What color is the sky in your universe today?
The sky is as blue as it ever was. No sign of change there. The weather, as always, is following the seasonal patterns, though this winter in much of the US it has been colder than average.
You wrote:
“Nor have you answered my question, have you? What’s a matter? Was it too difficult or do you juist have trouble staying on target?”
The people of Haiti have chosen their religion over academic pursuits. They have chosen ignorance over enlightenment.
You wrote:
“Belief in religion does not logically preclude belief in science, first of all.”
As I wrote above, Haitians have embraced their religions and ignored academic learning. This aspect of life in Haiti speaks for itself.
You wrote:
“But what I’d like to know is how low academic achievement cis caused by beliefs, say, rather than lack of resources to build decent schools. Explain.”
Very simple. People in a culture that maintains its devotion to tradition does not embrace change, especially the personal change necessary to learn, introduce and apply the concepts of science, math and technology to their lives.
Haitians are living proof of a determination to stick with the past, a past that does not work. Yet they persist.
You wrote:
“Wrong. “Invisible hand”? Give me a break. The Market is as an imaginary an entity as any orixá. If it weren’t we could directly observe it, right?”
You have now confused the economic concept of the “invisible hand” with something that is “imaginary.”
As I said before, you know nothing about economics, and your latest statement is more proof of that. If you were honest, which you clearly are not, you will at least admit your ignorance to yourself.
However, it is possible you really do believe you know something about economics. That would be unfortunate because that kind of self-deception leads to so many additional misunderstandings that you might never get the hang of the subject.
For your own benefit, get a college economics text and do some reading. The subject is interesting and the topics are usually presented in 20-page chapters that are easy to digest.
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Not explicitly of course, but Christian values of what is right and wrong have always shaped law in this country. For example, it was only last decade that anti-sodomy laws were struck down by the supreme court. Legal opposition to gay marriage is also religiously based for most. In some states, adultery is still on the books as a felony.
Bullshit. Republican strategists take it as a given that the evangelicals are as crucial to their electorate as racial minorities are to the Democrats. They NEED the evangelical voting bloc. As for what they lobby for, it goes well beyond opposing abortion and gay marriage. They are a strong pro-Israel lobby which is rooted in their religious beliefs. They were also strongly in favor of the war in Iraq.
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tulio,
You are totally confused.
The “religious right” — an amorphous designation, by the way — like any voting bloc, is courted by all politicians. Meanwhile, the issues that motivate voters are NOT issues of religion per se.
The issues of abortion, sodomy and adultery are NOT issues of religion per se. They are societal issues on which every religion has a viewpoint.
In muslim nations, Islam is the official state religion and the Koran is law. Muslims believe their religion is the supreme law of the land. There is no comparison between a nation that derives its laws from the Koran and a nation in which laws are made by the best efforts of the people.
Meanwhile, I see that you also know nothing about middle east politics or the reasons the evangelicals support Israel. Is there something about supporting Israel that troubles you? You should keep in mind that Obama is a former muslim, and it becomes clearer every day that he is not much of a friend to Israel.
Anyway, with your mention of evangelical support for Israel, you have again confused the nature of political support with the issues themselves.
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Haitians Dying By The Thousands – As US Escalates Military Intervention
http://www.countercurrents.org/auken220110.htm
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Senegal is getting flack but Israel has some horrible statistics according to these links
1. low status of women
http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/…/empowering.html
2 Dirty water
http://www.springerlink.com/index/QYHGT1WPX58WK20T.pdf
3. Poverty is widespread in Israel
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/israelpovertychildrenyomkippur4831210.html
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The article, written by the evidently insane Bill van Auken, ends with the following:
“It is only a matter of time before the horrendous death toll caused by the January 12 earthquake will be augmented by victims shot to death by US occupation forces.”
It is lunatics like Bill van Auken who want to spread idiocy. Why? Hard to say.
Even though massive rescue and aid efforts coming from the US government and US citizens are in high gear, screwballs like van Auken are compelled to claim their bizarre hallucinations tell the real story.
After the US completes its usual extraordinary rescue and aid work, and after the Haitian government issues its profuse thanks for American generosity, will this moron admit he was grotesquely wrong?
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I hate it when certain people somehow feel the need to point out how screwed up Haiti is, even at such a terrible moment as this, AND THEN SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about America’s hand in Haiti’s history.
Yes, and not a word for the immediate suffering of the people! Instead they go off on diatribes. It’s as if they are saying that the Haitian’s deserved it! How morally bankrupt!
Nose_laps
I’d like to appologize to all the members of Abagond’s blogging community for my recent bizarre behavior. You see, aside from suffering from Aspergers, I also have a split personality.
Because of this and as partial repayment for my behavior, in the upcoming days I will be translating my other half’s posts into more rational language.
Apologies accepted! LOL!
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MerryMay,
Yes, it is very ridiculous! They get so close on the victims that you could see every eyelash. I understand that they have to show some to gain empathy with people so that they will be inspired to donate. But, they could at least get permission and at the very least, make sure the people are presentable (clothes on) before they shoot.
I don’t watch it anymore. I just donate.
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As I mentioned in a previous comment, I organized a bake sale with baked goodies costing $3 a pop. We managed to raise over a grand. I heard a co-worker remark how fast the baked goods sold. (We could barely keep up.) Then she remarked that it was sad people only opened their wallets when there was a national disaster and that people should be helping their own first. I replied, “What do you mean by helping our own? We’re helping those who need our help.” She replied, “There are poor, homeless people suffering here, too. You don’t see others opening their wallets for them, do you?” I agreed with her that charity begins at home, but Haitians needed immediate help. She shook her head and said she would rather help the people at home first (Canada). Unbelievable.
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@leigh204
congrats on raising money and the nerve of that woman how rude
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“She shook her head and said she would rather help the people at home first (Canada). Unbelievable.”
That woman is full of shite. I doubt she really helps anyone and uses this as an excuse not to. In regards to helping those at home, she probably blames them for their predicament. What she is really saying is ‘buzz off”, but instead comes up with the apologia; I’d rather help those at home”. The fact is, she aint helping anyone, if she ever did.
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@Herneith:
Honestly, I don’t recall her buying a single thing. And what is it with making a comment about helping those at home? It should be a given, I think. I donate canned goods to a local food bank and clothing to women’s shelters whenever I can. In fact, my mother’s homeland (Philippines) was hit by a typhoon in September then a couple of tropical storms afterwards. I was campaigning at work for any donations- clothes, canned goods, supplies, etc. Only a few people responded. I don’t understand some people making judgements like that. People need help not criticisms.
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The black population of Canada is about 1% of the country’s 34 million people — 340,000 blacks.
The US is 13% black. Thus, about 40 million out of our population of 308 million.
What makes Canada such a white country?
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1%, huh, NS? 2006 census says 2.5%.
Jeezis, you can’t even report stats right even when they more-or-less support your position! If it’s 6, you’ll say it’s 10 and if it’s ten, you’ll say 25.
16.20% of Canada’s population is visibly non-white, too. Not as much as the States, but certainly not insignificant, as you imply.
You’ve got some nerve calling people “insane” and “screwballs” when 8 times out of 10, the “facts” you cite are distorted or out-and-out lies, No Slappz.
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What does the black population in Canada have to do with this woman’s remarks?
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I can’t figure that one out, either.
No_slappz must be hittin’ the ‘tussin pretty heavily.
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He’s hitting something.
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LOL You guys!
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Honestly, I don’t recall her buying a single thing. And what is it with making a comment about helping those at home? It should be a given, I think.
But it isn’t. She should have said nothing and kept her opinions to herself. The fact that she felt a need to say these thing to you in particular, speaks volumes. People like this don’t do squat for anyone but themselves. They make these ignorant comments in order to justify their own guilt. After all the fundraiser was for Haiti which needed immediate help, not “helping those at home” which was a different issue altogether. A diversionary tactic if one ever existed. Oh yeah, you should have charged at least five dollars a pop!
People need help not criticisms.
An excellent point! People should put up or shut up. It shows a distinct lack of compassion and empathy. Criticism and remarks such as this woman’s does nothing to alleviate such sufferings. I hear such excuses all too often. Compassion and empathy, two of the hardest attributes to acquire it would seem.
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@Herneith:
Honestly, I don’t recall her buying a single thing. And what is it with making a comment about helping those at home? It should be a given, I think.
You’re absolutely spot on as always.
People need help not criticisms.
I agree. It’s funny (not haha funny) that some people are quick to point fingers at others while not taking a look at themselves. The world should be like one big family and help a family member in need. Sadly, some people don’t have it in their hearts to care.
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We Send Doctors, Not Soldiers
By Fidel Castro
http://www.countercurrents.org/castro250110.htm
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Haitian Empowerment Must Be The Prime Goal
by Roger Annis Canada Haiti Action Network, Noam Chomsky MIT, Brian Concannon Jr Institute for Justice and Democracy in Haiti, Berthony Dupont Editor, Haiti Liberté, Yves Engler Haiti Action Montreal, Peter Hallward Middlesex University, Pierre Labossiere Haiti Action Committee, USA, Kevin Pina Journalist/film-maker, Jean Saint Vil Canada Haiti Action Network
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/22/haitian-empowerment-prime-goal
Source: The Guardian newspaper (UK)
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Yeah, Castro’s soldiers have their hands full making sure nobody flees that prison island.
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And btw, what on earth has Castro done in the last 50 years for Haiti? Hell, black Cubans aren’t even treated well in Cuba. I’ve never seen any person in the Cuban government of any prominence that was black, even though the island is 60% black. Black Cubans frequently complain that they aren’t given the lucrative jobs in the tourism industry that the white and mestizo Cubans get.
I don’t need to hear Castro flapping his gums about equality.
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I am not sure I understand the aforesaid post and I am just seeking some clarification here
Is it the ‘message (ie anti US Imperialism) or the ‘messenger’ (ie Castro) here which is the problem??
Especially as there seems to be some ‘convergence’ between the ‘message’ of Castro and the undersigned of the petition viz. Roger Annis Canada Haiti Action Network, Noam Chomsky MIT, Brian Concannon Jr Institute for Justice and Democracy in Haiti, Berthony Dupont Editor, Haiti Liberté, Yves Engler Haiti Action Montreal, Peter Hallward Middlesex University, Pierre Labossiere Haiti Action Committee, USA, Kevin Pina Journalist/film-maker, Jean Saint Vil Canada Haiti Action Network
Or is it perhaps even both the message and the messenger??
Or again some other factor not yet alluded to???
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I read that petition and couldn’t help but roll my eyes the whole way through. There’s a certain segment of the left that thinks America is the root cause of all things wrong in the world. Obama’s response to Haiti has been swift and generous by any standard. Yet for the left, it’s never good enough. They demand virtually omnipotent reaction to any crisis that arises. Let’s see Noam Chomsky and these other eggheads climb down off their Ivory Towers and go down to Port Au Prince and hand out food packets themselves if they want to complain about our efficiency in emergency relief.
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Thanks!!
So just to clarify then its the ‘message’ then…
Specifically the suggestion that US foreign policy is responsible for ‘ALL’ (or nearly all) of the political ills across the world??
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The Great White men have saved the Hatians once again.
But where is our thanks?
Instead we get whining, conspiracy theories and insults..smh
Afrocentric nutjobs are certified loons.
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“The Great White men have saved the Hatians once again.”
Whites like to see themselves this way. You see it in their films, books and foreign policy:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/mighty-whitey/
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Yes. Unlearning “mighty whitey” stereotype should be a must for all white people. If you want to unlearn your stereotypes, racism, prejudice, it is a good starting point.
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Here, Mighty Whitey: have a cookie.
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Um… Was my comment that offensive? I know I used a “forbidden word” but I thought the comment itself wasn’t disrespectful.
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Thaddeus & Mira:
“Whitey” is a moderated word
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Yes, I know it is. But my comment was in moderation longer than usual. It looks like I must learn to be more patient.
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Mira:
Moderation can last just a few minutes or, in practice, up to six hours. It depends whether I am online or not.
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Thanks for the info.
Maybe this whole impatience thing happened because I got a bit angry writing my comment that went into moderation. So I thought the comment was “angrier” than it actually was.
Basically, it has nothing to do with you or your moderation techniques.
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With regard to
“Yes. Unlearning “mighty whitey” stereotype should be a must for all white people. If you want to unlearn your stereotypes, racism, prejudice, it is a good starting point”.
Its in fact much more than this, since it also an ‘attitude’ or frame-of-my mind.
Fanon speaks of racism being everywhere, almost like oxygen in the culture.
I am not sure one can completely escape its clutches whether Whites or Blacks. Though obviously some will be better at ‘escaping’ it than others
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But where is our thanks?
Do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on?
Instead we get whining, conspiracy theories and insults..smh
Expect more!
Afrocentric nutjobs are certified loons.
Let me invert that for you. Euro-centric nut jobs are certified loons!
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J said:
J,
I think what often happens is people see CIA intervention in a country that is a failed state, and then assume that the reason the government of a country(or the country itself) is a failure is because the CIA made it that way. It’s rather the other way around. The CIA exploits the situation because the country is a failed state and too internally dysfunctional to thwart outside influence. Minus the CIA, Haiti would still be screwed up. The CIA assisted Pinochet in toppling the leftist government in Chile, yet Chile has rebounded and is now essentially a first world country despite the CIA’s meddling in their government, meanwhile there are Haitians to this day eating cakes made of dirt. Why is that? Why are some countries failed states ALWAYS. I don’t think simplistically pointing to the CIA even begins to scratch the surface.
It’s one thing to say we as Americans should be informed about the covert operations of our government abroad and what they are doing in our names, with our tax dollars. I think that’s the obligation of any informed American. However, I don’t take it a step further and assume the CIA is the main culprit(or even a significant one) behind Haiti’s status as a failed state.
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Then how do you explain ‘other interventions’ that do not directly involve the CIA??
Or can the CIA in the aforesaid be interchanged with ‘US imperialism’??
A Century of US Military Intervention
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
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Hugo Chavez and Russia suggest the worst regarding the earthquake
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116834§ionid=351020104
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Port-au-Prince is situated right on the fault line between North American and Caribbean tectonic plates. The earthquake was not a surprise for geologists: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/1424157.html. But, as always, folks here at Abagond prefer conspiracy theories to science.
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And there is also another perspective to ‘conspiracy theories’ namely people are reluctant to believe them (primarily because of the assumption: ‘Our government would not be so wicked to undertake such acts’.
It is with the de-classification several years later and/or some other factors then the ‘truth’ or some other version of the story emerges. However, by then it is really too late to affect any change.
Its funny that today then the former Prime Minister of England, Tony Blair is called to give his account and justification to go to war in England.
If we are speaking of ‘conspiracy theories’ and for those who may want to believe in them. It should be clear that there is a difference when an ordinary person comes up with the ‘thought’ and when a Government comes up with the suggestion.
These are some of the considerations, in my opinion, on whether considering the validity of conspiracy claims, especially as any Government is not going to give its citizens the ‘truth’ of events immediately.
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J, tell me some examples of conspiracy theories that have turned out to be true.
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The illegality of the Iraq War
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I don’t think you can call that a conspiracy theory. From the point of view of international law, it was clear from the outset that the invasion was illegal. Give me some more examples.
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Well with some people in the UK it was just that a ‘conspiracy’ to justify the war.
Not only was the war illegal but the claims justifying that war at least for the UK were also false – even if many did not believe or want to admit it back then.
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Just found this article about ten Americans trying to cross into the Dominican Republic with thirty-three Haitian children.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/30/10-americans-arrested-tak_n_443269.html
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Why am I not surprised leigh?? Hope they name and shame these idiots, make sure they plaster their names ans faces in every news channel.
Yet I have a sneaking suspicion they will be given the benefit of the doubt.
Modern day slavery no matter which way you look at it. Don’t these people have any decency? Geez.
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Apparently, this other article I found showed twenty of the children had parents and siblings. The article also mentions “the parents willingly signed their children over to those Americans” in question. Still, it’s mighty suspicious that these ten American church members had no proper documentation in the first place. C’mon now. Thirty-three children?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/01/eveningnews/main6163733.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea
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I’d like to make a bet that those people being detained will pull the religion card.
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That’s how they are portrayed in England. Religious do-gooders out to save those poor Haitian kids and a little Haitian tape got in the way. The story is being handled with kid gloves, certainly wasn’t a headliner : (
British reporters were all over those Americans to hear their side of it. Haiti is relying heavily on the States for aid, the eyes of the world are on that country, the authorities must handle the yanks with care.
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no_slappz
This statement is a scream. It’s amazing how this person can say the stupidest thing and think himself/herself clever. Haiti, when it was founded, was feared by all the slaving powers in the world. Haitians picked themselves up and made a nation of free men who swore to live free or die. Haiti paid for any service it got from any other nation. A genius like no_slappz needs to explain how Haiti got aid when its very existence wasn’t recognized by any of the “civilized nations”.
Bullshit, name me one battle between the french and the indigenous army that wasn’t either a draw or a pyrrhic victory for the french? The french “won” the battle at Crête-à-Pierrot by losing a tenth of their army, the death of several french generals and the wounding of Napoleon’s brother-in-law. Peace was negotiated and any plans to restore slavery put on hold. Note that all of Toussaint’s general staff were integrated into the french army with no reduction in rank after they killed so many french soldiers, no doubt you will claim that was done because the french were such “good guys”. By 1811 the northern kingdom of Henry Christophe had recovered enough to do 1,200,000 sterling pounds in trade with the U.K. or the equivalent of over 6 billion dollars in 2011 money. Impressive forts and palaces were built by Haitians, and the kingdom created schools to educate the people. After Christophe’s death these efforts were abandoned and Haiti paid France the blackmail money she was demanding.
According to this moron vodou and education don’t mix. I wonder what no_slappz has ever invented or discovered? Based on the low intelligence displayed here I’ll guess nothing. A friend of my who is an electrical engineer with 3 patents to his name is also a firm believer and practitioner of vodou. Max Beauvoir, the man who established some kind of vodou hierarchy is a biochemist with degrees from New York University and the Sorbonne another scholar and vodou devotee is Patrick Bellegarde Smith professor of Africology at the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee. Ah, so much ignorance and arrogance, before spewing your garbage learn something first.
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“Haitians have big problems because they do nothing to prevent big problems. Instead of learning how to build safe buildings, they practice Voodoo.”
Sans Souci Palace, built by Haitians in 1813 was air conditioned. This Haitian was considered to be the third richest man of France by 1900. He introduced electricity to a French town that he turned into a major vacation resort. The natives are still grateful to him. He also financed the crossing of the English Channel by plane in 1909. Not bad for a “voodoo” practitioner and descendant of slaves. https://dinardblog.wordpress.com/
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@abagond
Do you have local (haitian) sources about the brazilian “occupation” of Haiti?
http://www.itamaraty.gov.br/en/politica-externa/paz-e-seguranca-internacionais/6366-minustah-en
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There are now over 120000 haitians living in Brazil, most of them legally:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Brazilian
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Appreciate gro jo’s history lessons on Haiti.
It’s such an unfairly slandered nation and it’s obvious why.
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