This post is very much a work in progress. What follows is just my first attempt at it:
Here are some of the top black beauties in America through the years. Which ones wear their hair naturally? Which ones do you think could pass the brown paper bag test?
1940s: Lena Horne
1950s: Dorothy Dandridge
1960s: Diahann Carroll
1970s: Pam Grier
1980s: Vanessa Williams, Phylicia Rashad
1990s: Halle Berry, Angela Bassett, Tyra Banks
2000s: Beyonce, Gabrielle Union
Before the 1960s black ideas of beauty were pretty much white ideas of beauty. White is beautiful. Good hair was straight hair, beautiful skin was light skin, and a pretty face had a thin nose and thin lips. Women straightened their hair and tried to lighten their skin. Men tried to marry the lightest-skinned woman they could. Little black girls, when asked, mostly preferred white dolls over black dolls.
While there are plenty of blacks who still feel this way even now, back then people were far more open about it. There was little shame in expressing such ideas and they were rarely challenged. Blacks had been brainwashed by living in a white country, a country where light-skinned people were favoured by whites, where both blacks and whites were taught in a thousand and one ways that white is right and black is bad, ugly and no-good.
But even back then there were men who loved black women in all their natural glory. They could not help themselves despite all the brainwashing.
In the 1960s came the Black Power movement. One of its catchphrases was “Black is beautiful”. Black ideas of beauty, which were in fact just white ideas of beauty, were questioned. Malcolm X was married to a woman much darker than himself. Many blacks stopped straightening their hair. In the early 1970s you see both men and women wearing huge Afros, like Pam Grier.
The civil rights movement died out in the 1970s and the Afros not long after, but it did open the way for many blacks to move up into the middle-class. But to move up meant fitting in, fitting in with white ideas of talking, dressing, acting and looking. Some did not give in to that, but many did. For some it was the price of success, for others it seemed like a purely private decision that had nothing to do with white power or black power.
But if you cannot wear dreadlocks at work, then how many women will? In the 1980s with the growth of the black middle-class white ideas of beauty made a comeback. Not just through the workplace, but through magazines and television too, through entertainers like Beyonce.
So much so that women like Vida Guerra and Kim Kardashian made the cover of black men’s magazines, magazines that prefer women with light skin and long, dark hair, even if their figures are still thick (though even that might be changing).
So much so that little black girls still prefer white dolls.
See also:
- Black beauty and self perception… shadism – a post that Lifeisannoying wrote after reading mine and the comments that followed.
- white beauty: a brief history
- The most beautiful black women according to black people – where most of the list above came from
- women
- Black Men magazine
- black racism – internalized racism
- dreadlocks
Great start, Abagond. Straight with no chaser. I look forward to your future posts on this.
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What inspired this post? Haven’t you explored these sorts of topics many times before?
Is this from a new angle? For instance, does the anti-black sentiment of the Western world affect perceptions of black male attractiveness? Why or why not? If so, does it affect it in the same way? What about for other women of color? How do the pro-white ideals that shape American thought affect how their beauty is perceived?
Where’s Naomi Campbell? Iman? Beverly Johnson? Naomi Simms? Janet Jackson? Nia Long? Vivica A. Fox? Kerry Washington? Lauryn Hill? Kenya Moore? Jayne Kennedy? Lola Falana? Eva Pigford? Tocarra? Alek Wek? Whitney? There’s WAAYYY too many famous black women mising from your collection whose beauty was celebrated.
You’ve explored how anti-black racism and colorism affects how black women are perceived several times before. It’s great but just to prevent sounding like a broken record, how about exploring these same ol’ topics from a different angle? If not, you risk sounding redundant, attracting the same type of commentators and then having the same conversation over and over again. Just a thought.
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great post. it’s sad that this still goes on.
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Mynameismyname:
This is a post I have wanted to do for a long time, but for that reason I have kind of already written about it here and there. This is supposed to be a counterpart to this post:
I do not want to sound like a broken record, certainly, and thanks for the warning, but sometimes I do write about the same thing from a different angle to see if I can understand it better. This one looks at black beauty from the point of view of history, of change over time.
As it is, I am not all that pleased with how this post turned out.
As to Naomi, etc: The list above is hardly meant to be complete. I did not want my own judgement to enter into it unnecessarily, so I took the top one or two women for each decade from the post on “The most beautiful black women according to black people”:
There was no one for the 1950s or 1970s, so I added Dorothy Dandridge and Pam Grier myself.
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god our standards are so narrow it’s a wonder we don’t end up in the crazy home with all these unattainable goals.
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Just a couple months ago, “Good Morning America” performed an update of the famous study Kenneth and Mamie Clark from the 1940s. The purpose was to see exactly where race relations stand in the Obama era.
The study put two dolls in front of grade-school-aged black children. The two dolls were identical except for skin color. One was white, the other was black. The two researchers then proceeded to ask the children questions about the doll.
They found that 63%-the majority-preferred playing with the white doll, finding the doll to be “nicer”. Most strikingly- and disturbingly- 44% of the children said that the white doll looked like them!
60 years later, the GMA researchers found strikingly different findings in their reproduction of the famed study:
88% of the children (all black) said that the black doll looked them, opposed to the 44% who said that back in the ’40s.
The majority of children preferred to play with the black doll, or both or neither. The majority also found the black doll to be “nicer”.
Now here’s where it gets interesting:
When the children were asked, which doll is prettier, that’s where the gender split occurred.
Most of the black boys found either the black doll or both to be pretty.
On the other hand, 47%-about half- of the black girls said that the white doll was prettier. The most striking thing is that many of the black girls picked the white doll to be prettier with no visible hesistation. As it was the obvious choice in the world.
What does this say, about the disparity of the perception of race and beauty between young black boys and young black boys? What does 2009’s findings say? What say you, Abagond (and other commentators)?
Peep the whole thing with your own eyes: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=7213714&page=1
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Not surprising, unfortunately, though it is good to hear that it is not as bad as it used to be.
I not sure how rigorous, though, GMA was in recreating the Clarke experiment. But at any rate for a brown girl to see herself as less good because of her colour is bad news.
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It was heartning to see the majority of black children gravitate to the image that most reflected them.
However, the gender split just confirmed what I’ve long believed, based on a wide scale of observations.
It always seemed that black women (I’m speaking exclusively of black Americans) appeared to have a more extensive and stranger pathology when it came to skin color (and hair) than their male counterparts.
In other words, black women seemed more caught up about color than black men. All of the jaw-dropping comments that I’ve heard about skin color- whether displaying a bias or preference for a certain shade- came from black women.
You can even see reflections of this on this very blog. Notice how many of the black female posters refer to other black women as “light skinned” or “chocolate” or whatever. Even going so far to describe their own shade as if it is a demographic. The black male posters- not so much. Also notice how a black woman’s shade is often accessed, yet a black man’s not nearly as much.
The GMA study’s results really seemed to corrolate with what I’ve witnessed, again, on a broad scale (meaning, not only my personal ancedotes but observations of others’).
What say you?
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Really Lynette?,
I’ve heard countless stories of instances of black females wishing for “light skinned” babies with un-tightly curled hair. Ditto for instances of black women downing someone for being “too dark” or berating (or envying) someone for being “too light”. And let’s not forget, displaying their own shade/hair preferences and biases toward potential mates.
All of this came out of their own consciousness, independent from black males or non-blacks.
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“I feel self-concept is developed from our parents”
You couldn’t have it said it better. To be honest, the whole concept of African American color consciousness was one I had no knowledge of until I turned 21 years old. That all speaks volumes to how I was raised. The whole concept of race is formed at home. Society can worsen or lessen it, but the fonduation is the environment in where one grows up.
All in all, black American women, in general, are no less guilty of following this strange, hurtful, anti-black pathology as black American men are. However, I feel that many absorb it more so than their male counterparts. This is proven by the results of the above study and the things I pointed out.
For instance, in the above comment, notice that in your mention of black men you left out what shade they’re perceived as, yet the same can’t be said about your mention of black women. It’s subtle but it proves what I was saying. So, black women are assessed partly in how dark they are; black men, no so much or at least, not AS much.
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Also,
I should note that these envious black women THEMSELVES appear to believe that “Eurocentric” features are better. If someone goes on about “good hair”, then obviously they believe that they have a concept of what are good features and what are bad features. The people around them may strengthen or weaken those ideas, but it is internalized within the individual first.
That’s what the root of the problem is. Why do half of those black female schoolchildren already see the images that look the least like them as ideal? Blaming the media or their male counterparts isn’t exactly correct. Now, long-held societal attitudes regarding blacks? That’s more on the right path. That’s what needs to be eridicated.
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I have to agree with Mynameismyname: women make a way bigger deal out of skin shade than men do. I think a count of the comments on this blog would show that.
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I think both black women and men make a big issue out skin color but usually when it is concerning black women. I have heard black men make a big deal about only seeking light skin women as mates. I think this starts some friction between black women. Women in general are more caught up in their looks. That’s because a woman’s beauty is defined by her status here in America. I think the issue that is not always is discussed is how skin color has had some underlining equation to femininity and masculinity.
I think the reason why some black men choose light skin women over dark skin women is because light skin might equate to femininity and dark skin equates to masculinity. I do think that has some effect on black women issues on color. You have dark skin women growing more frustrated because they are not the top women black men would choose. If you don’t believe me, ask some of your black male friends or listen to some of the hip-hop songs on the radio, it’s always red bone this or red bone that. Women like to feel some acception from men and I do think that has something to with women’s self-esteem. A cute girl that’s used to getting some attention and one night doesn’t, you see how her self-esteem drops. Should women do that and gain self-esteem from men liking them? That’s another topic of discussion.
Black men do have some colorism issues. I have heard dark skin men complain about light skin men “being in with white people” I’ve heard alot of complaints from dark skin men particularly about Obama being president because he appears to be non-threatening and the cause is because he is a light skin man. Why do you have artist like Common say stuff like “I’m repping for light skin MCs” or Kanye West on a particular song saying, “I’m make sure these light niggas never ever come back in style” Watch ATL and listen to the line where Big Boi says, “Somebody should’ve told y’all light skin niggas ain’t back in style”. So yes, I think black men do talk about color alot, it’s just not exploited like black women.
I heard a radio station topic and they were talking about light skin and dark skin. I’ve heard more men call the radio station and they were basically bashing some of the dark skin sistas. So yeah I do think societal attitudes towards color is mainly defined by femininity and masculinity. Both black women and men are affected by this. Light skin men are not the favored by black women. Just like dark skin women are not favored by black men.
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Dani,
Your comment was great.
No one said that black American men don’t follow this pathology. Just not as deeply as black women. This is proven by the results of that GMA study.
Many black women value light skin, on others and on potential mates (and children). Independent from similar-minded men and non-blacks.
For perspective, I’ve rarely heard black males quibble about skin shade amongst each other. Black women on the other hand ….
The reason why many Western blacks favor or prefer to mate with light skin has less to do with standards of beauty and more to do with an idealogy of privilege. This goes way deeper into the origins of slavery and post-Reconstruction, not just in the U.S. but in every Western country that was involved with the trans-Atlantic slave trade. And where people of African descent have been oppressed or marginalized.
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Dani,
To elaborate on your pop culture references: there’s so many posts on multiple black female-patronized entertainment sites about black female celebs like the UK R&B singer Estelle, Tameka Raymond (wife of Usher) and others. The vastly black female commentators go on and on about these black women’s compelexions! These black female posters essentially say that these supposedly “dark skinned” women are “too dark”, unattractive and less acceptable.
And Estelle, Tameka and the like represent the average western black women in terms of appearance!!! That’s what’s disturbing.
If you go on, let’s say, a sports site, patronized more by men, the varying (dark) complexions of the black pro athletes rarely come up. Ditto with black male celebs.
I even asked Lynette once on here, why is that many of the young black females she works with want to look more like Halle Berry than say, Kyla Pratt, Camille Winbush or KeKe Palmer? It’s their own inner bias and their own concepts of race. That’s what needs to be ironed out. As proven by the study.
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mynameimyname said:
To elaborate on your pop culture references: there’s so many posts on multiple black female-patronized entertainment sites about black female celebs like the UK R&B singer Estelle, Tameka Raymond (wife of Usher) and others. The vastly black female commentators go on and on about these black women’s compelexions! These black female posters essentially say that these supposedly “dark skinned” women are “too dark”, unattractive and less acceptable.
Girl you don’t have to say no more! I was on concreteloop and when they did a post on Estelle they were hard on her. I mean extra hard on her. You know one another thing to? Someone on a forum posted untouched photos of Kim K. The women rubbed it off and said nothing because hey everyone has unflattering areas. When someone posted a pic of Bria Myles untouched photos, girl they were tag teaming with insults! I think Bria Myles is cute. I remember someone told me only ugly fat dark skin women hate on Beyonce. I was blown away with the ignorance that was said out of her mouth. So yeah I can agree with you on that. I just think Black women have alot internal issues with color because since of race of women range in so many different colors, we are influenced by the dominant group or culture on what is attractive and that is usually lighter women with delicate feautures. So they end believing that that is the ideal beautiful black woman. I do agree with you on that black men might not discuss color on the way women do and that’s because of different gender persepectives. Women’s beauty is the concern for them to gain status and seeking male attention. Men is mostly status in terms of wealth. So when black men discuss color its most on how light skin men have it better in a workplace.
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Dani,
“Girl”? I’m a man! LOL.
You pretty much hit the head on the nail. Color bias will affect black Americans differently by gender. For women, it revolves around beauty status. For men, it can affect them professionally. It’s funny, how it’s opposite though. Plenty and plenty of traditionally black-looking women have reached the pinnacle of corporate America and academica. While, black men rarely have a hard time being seen as attractive regardless of how they look.
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“Girl”? I’m a man! LOL.
*blushes*
sorry:-( yeah but from what you posted we seem to agree on the difference but color still affects both black men and women.
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Hi it’s me again, and may i throw my own experiance into the ring. As the regulars all know i’m a british born west indian. i live in england.
here is the paradox, skin shade was a complete non-issue for me and nobody mentioned it to me until september 2000. The tail end of a hot summer returning home from school waiting for the bus with some school pals (and some frenermies) i sat in the sunshine sucking on my lollipop. When my least favourite black contempory said
“you don’t need to be in the sun, you will get darker than you already are!” she said scuttling behind the shade of the bus shelter. i was bemused, she was a notorious white skin worshipper and was always banging on about how she was going to land herself a white guy and have “cute mixed kids” . i brushed it off, she had serious issues and i was brought up in a house emancipated from that attitude. slowly i noticed that women of my skin tones were being airbrused from black entertainment, gone was nia long, gone was lauren hill,gone was the en vogues of the world and slowly i noticed how widespead the image of the fair video vixen was. every other actress as a romantic lead was fair the comic relief more often than not was a dark skinned fat parody without self respect (pointing no fingers Mo’nque), every singer that became sucuessful was fair or fair-ish sometimes in compensation of actual talent…. i began to doubt, there is only that parental pride and love can do in the face of media onslaught. But i got a couple of male admirers and i moved on from the images of tv. I met men who refused my advances because my skin was too deep in shade too brown and not a fair honey. i leave them by the side. but this year i was dishearted to hear a young black girl admonish my ambition to laze in my back garden and soak up the sun. she said “LIFEISANNOYING you cant do that, you will get dark” she said it in such a jolly way and with a laugh in her voice, i could not scold her, i had to just shake my head.
How can we hope to reverse so much social conditioning.it’s Diaspora wide, and it took maybe 400 years to settle and that brief outpouring of love and pride in the 1970’s only affected my family as it appears. what to do folks, we have to tackle it for the sons and daughters who we leave behind in this world.
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oh by the way i would like to say that girl back in 2000, the white skin worshipper…. she got her white man and they are very happy.
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How do you feel that media images of black men affect young black males?
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Also Dani,
Did I come off as a female? Just curious! LOL
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Lifeisannoying: Be glad your parents brought you up with some sense. I just hope we all can do the same.
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I don’t know if this interests you but i’ve just posted my own thoughts on the issue
http://lifeisannoying.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/black-beauty-and-self-perception-shadism/
check it out for my thoughts and feelings
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Lifeisannoying I couldn’t click on the link you posted so I just went to your main page and read your post. I agree 100% with everything you wrote there, you have an awesome blog by the way!
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Life is Annoying,
I read your blog post. Very insightful. Although I don’t know when Jacki-O, the Miami rapper and Teedra Moses ever became light skinned. But hey, it’s completely subjective! You might think Wesley Snipes is light skinned, for all I know. That’s how relative it is. Cassie is more racially ambigious than “light skinned black”. And career never really took off, so she was a poor example of what you were saying.
But that’s all beside the point.
You say that the media glare can outweight parental love. So, when you felt that all shades of black women were represented in the media, your self esteem or many women’s self esteem was higher? Did you feel that the people who believe that “white is right” still wouldn’t harbor those beliefs when there was supposed to be more variety in the media?
If the media outweights your environment, then why is that I watch(ed) the same TV and listened to the same music as you and I never cared less about someone’s skin shade let alone apply various traits and a status
to it?
Like I said, the media and other people can play a part but it all begins within.
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You are being slightly overjealous, what i described was slight self doubt based on the enviroment. As i said i was a teen at the time so feelings of self doubt are not uncommon things to have. and yes when i saw all all varieties of black womanhood represented i felt better about myself (at that time) As for you and what you feel, thats good for you, we are not living the same experiance by miles, I’m in my mid twenties soon, i’m english my heritage is west indian and i’m very happy with myself.I dont know how much of your experiance is applicable to my own. we live in different countries we have different cultures (although they may share similarities) and yes it all begins within, but why is it in there? who put these thoughts in there and you cannot deny that outside infleunces are entirely benign, otherwise why rate films? why restrict knowledge, why are there laws?
otherwise speaking about the skin colour being subjective….
well if you take any woman of colour and you use Spots (as in spotlights) you can wash the apperance of skin colour away from from them. Remember those beyonce loreal ad’s…. she appeared as white as buttermilk, while she is very pale, people did notice.
loreal has blamed the whole debarcle on lighting and not photoshopping.
anyhoo.thanks for popping by.
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lifeisannoying said:
Growning up in the 1990’s i knew that the black women were all represented , in my community and in black media, vanessa williams, naomi campbell,nia long,tyra banks,alex wek,Crystal rose,Llwella gideon,Angie Le mar,Oprah winfrey,Aaliyah,lil kim,Faith evans, Mya, Lauren Hill
,en vogue ( had all shades covered),salt’n’pepper,TLC,Kele le roc, the Honeys and my favourites Eternal. By the end of the 1990’s something started to turn and i cannot say honestly i know what that was. After lauren hill had finished her miseducation releases, i noticed slowly that the women of colour in the media was tipping in favour of the lighter skinned woman.
I agree with what you said on your blog regarding the post on black beauty. I do think in 70’s to the 90’s black beauty was very diverse. You would see dark skin women as being lead characters and being wives on black sitcoms as well as light skin. Groups like Xscape were predominantley dark skin with the exception of Tiny. You had in the 80’s the group Klymaxx that was predominantley dark skin and did well. As well as the Pointer Sisters. The girls in the videos were dark to light as well. So yeah I agree that it was hard to make the colorism issue then when black beauty was praised of all the sistas. Can we not also forget the biggest young Black money maker female recording artist in the 90’s Brandy? Who is dark skin.
Now to expand on your comment, I think that the urban market was in fear of losing appeal, and decided to comepete with Hollywood or the mainstream media so that means using more lighter skin black women as the fore front of black beauty. So yes I agree 100% with your comment and I think it stands as a good argument.
every other actress as a romantic lead was fair the comic relief more often than not was a dark skinned fat parody without self respect (pointing no fingers Mo’nque)
Oh yes this stands too! Most of the negative stereotypes of black women are usually played by dark skin women particularly. That film “Prescious” is a good example. That new Wayans Bros. film “Dance Flick” also supports this too. There was a preview of when Essence (portraying Keri Washington’s characters in “Save the Last Dance”) was walking the white girl to the lunch room to introduce her friends. Essence line was “these are my friends and I just be with them because they make me look good”. Both of her friends where dark skin and ghetto. One was fat and the other was skinny with a gold tooth and some blonde weave. So the ghetto black woman stereotype is usually portrayed more particularly by dark skin black women. Let’s not forget “Norbit” enough said.
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When you refer to “dark skin”, you mean the typical shade range that the vast majority of black American women are, right?
Also, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that the use of racially ambigious or light-colored women as videos vixens furthered the stereotype as them as sluts, whores and freaks? That’s been persistent throughout time. The sexualization of “mulatto” women.
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mynameismyname: execellent point, light skinned women of colour may find themselves stereotypes as whores, or percieved as bitchy or snobby based on represenations in the media, but this is just my point, why are dark skinned (objective term i know) airbrused from view and why are lighted skinned (objective term) women portrayed in the light that they are?
Make no mistake Media is a powerful tool, books are valuable tools and knowledge is really power, if you have no understanding of the subtle dynamics around you, you exist as a pawn in game in which you have no control.
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mynameismyname said:
Also, has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that the use of racially ambigious or light-colored women as videos vixens furthered the stereotype as them as sluts, whores and freaks? That’s been persistent throughout time. The sexualization of “mulatto” women.
It crossed my mind of the stereotypes placed upon light skin women. One of the main stereotypes are that they are pompous, snobby, and mean. However, I don’t buy that stereotype that they are loose. I think that Black women as a whole are stereotyped as being loose. However, here’s the difference between how light skin women and dark skin women are stereotyped. Dark skin women are stereotyped as being jealous hearted, envious, and bitchy women but are undesired. While light skin women are stereotyped as being bitchy, snobby, and pompous but still desired. Why is that? If both skin color types of women are portrayed as having some bad qualities, why is one desired over the other? The media IS a very powerful tool to control people’s mind in oversimplifying the world. Let’s not be an apologist here and act like the media does not have any influence on our lives on a macro and micro level because if light skin women and dark skin women are saying these stereotypes effect in their individual lives, then it is still problematic.
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well said dani, i was never trying to say that light skinned women of colour have life any easier or nicer than dark skinned women of colour (although they may have light skin priveiledge) , i just want people to be aware that the media may be re-enforcing old “ideals” that i thought had died out.
peace.X
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Dani and Life,
I agree with everything you guys are saying. I was never trying to say that the media didn’t play a part in negative stereotypes. But I do think individual enviromental factors and upbringing play the most dominant role.
This whole discourse again proves my point: color is a much bigger factor for and among black American women than men. It seems like it’s the number one factor at that.
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But I do think individual enviromental factors and upbringing play the most dominant role.
I absolutely agree that it starts with upbringing that can help you cope with your problems of viewing your appearance. However, I’ll give you me an example. I’m dark skin Gabby Union’s complexion, and I’ve never had people dehumanize me for my color nor have I had family members do the same. So that might’ve helped me view my skin complexion in a positive light. Now what if you have been told you are beautiful for your complexion and you are dark skin, but once you step out your home, and have been told numerous times that you are ugly you start to believe and become doubtful of your appearance being beautiful. It happens and takes time for some people to get over that, because most people want to belong and for women it is appearance. You are right it affects black women the most because we are women. However, Black women have it harder because people want to degenerate us on “who the prettiest ones are” because Black women socially viewed as not being attractive. What hurts even more is that some of my people buy into these old ass white supremacist ideals. I think Black women are beautiful regardless of skin color.
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“I think Black women are beautiful regardless of skin color.”
Amen! Sadly, the U.S. (and Western society as a whole) seems too scared to admit this truth.
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Here is the correct link for that post by Lifeisannoying. I also added it above to the “See also” links at the end of the post.
http://lifeisannoying.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/black-beauty-and-self-perception-shadism/
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For what it is worth,
An up-and-coming singer, Jerimah, recently premiered the music video for his runaway debut single, “Birthday Sex”. The lead girl is essentially a white woman. Hollywood’s idea of a beautiful white woman at that: pale skin, blue eyes, long straight black hair and bone thin.
Judging by internet comments, (black) viewers weren’t feeling her. Many found her unattractive and disliked the fact that she wasn’t black. I wonder if this is progress, on the part of the viewers?
The thing that befuddles me about this type of situation is why blacks would privilege people over “their own” when these same people would never privilege them. Would any non-black female pop star select a black man as her love interest in a music video or film?
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LOL.
You’re crazy, Lynette!
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I have to disagree with mynameismynameis on her assertion that skin yone matters more to women than men, many men i have been unfortunate to meet seem to make stupid assertions based on belief that dark skinned black women are fine…. so you can sleep with them , but light skinned women are the ones that you marry up. these type of men will drop children with either type but would only marry one kind…. maybe it’s just a european diaspora thing but there you go. what is sick is that some women police that kind of thinking, and thus endorse it.
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^^^
I’m a “he” dammit! LOL.
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I don’t know why people are mistaken your comments for being a woman mynamismyname lol. I did and apologized. oh yeah Lynette telling the truth about Teena Marie.
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whoops …. sorry!!!
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kanye west did say that, in one of his songs. just don’t know which one.
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I hate how they can only be one black startlet at a time in each decade and in different areas of the media. That is why the media pitted Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks against each other. They said how Naomi needed to step aside and let Tyra take over.
Come to think about it who did Beyonce “replace” in the music world I want to say Aaliyah but I’m not sure maybe it’s becasue Aaliayh wasn’t as over exposed like Beyonce.
Now some people are saying Zoe Saldana is the new Halle Berry the new black beauty of the 10’s since she is one of the few black actress that is in films.
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One thing I’m proud of in the U.S. is that there have been significant strides towards the beauty of Black Women compared to the rest of the world. A lot of women worked hard to pave the way for many today, who are in turn paving the way (building new bridges/roads) for those future Black Women of tomorrow.
I’m not only looking at beauty in terms of physical attractiveness, but I’m also looking at it in terms of professional success: I think of media images, popular figures, reporters, talk show hosts: Film/TV award winners – Oprah, Tyra, Wendy Williams and their “MASS” appeal… I think of where we will be in the next 10 years as I look back at the 90’s, 80’s & 70’s. retrospectively. (yes, I’m that old)
(smile B.R.) – I feel sad when I really take the time to contemplate beauty and the concept of BEAUTIFUL PROUD BLACK WOMEN in BRAZIL. The U.S. has 13% of the population listed as Black, yet it seems images in the media and television reflect this same percentage – if not moreso. As B.R. has pointed out, it is the exact opposite in Brazil. You have brown, mixed, & majority “Black” (as defined in America) population that is NOT reflected in the media. What a shame… In this regard, I hope the U.S. continues to pave the way as an inspiration to Black Women all across the globe.
There is a long road ahead, but people are paving the way…
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No America hasnt made many strides in black beauty at all, unless you include Hollywood producers slyly passing of mulattos and other heavily mixed or very light-skinned black women….
How many attractive dark-skinned American actresses can you name? How many have had a major film in the last 2-3 years? I cant think of any.
All those pretty dark skinned models in the fashion world come from Africa or the Caribbean because Europeans go look for them. If they arent from the islands or Africa they are from Europe. American model scouts dont bother to look for pretty black(light or dark) models here in the US, let alone in Africa. The black models that are huge overseas, such as Oluchi Onwegba, are virtually unknown in the US. Oluchi is not only a high fashion model, she is a VS Angel AND SI model…how many Americans would recognize her?
Despite all of her success Oluchi will not ge the same recognition in the US…a no body Blond blue eyed woman will get the spotlight in the US before Oluchi ever will.
As far as Oprah goes, she is a mammy. Not in the traditional way of loving white people too much and being an ignorant house maid but in the sense she is an asexual, older black woman. How does having a 50 something year old, asexual black woman help black women in the beauty department? It doesnt help at all, in fact it does the opposite and give black women the rep. of being overweight and not sexually appealing. When people think of black women they think of Oprah, who many people think of Ellen DeGeneres when they think of white women? Not many. Im willing to bet people think of either their relatives or sexy white women.
As far as Wendy Williams paving the way, she isnt. She is a loud mouthed, wig wearing buffoon. She embodies the loud ignorant black woman stereotype, I hope her show gets canceled.
Tyra Banks is pretty but she is a nut in her own right. Besides being self absorbed it seems like she gets off on showcasing black women who have some deep seeded insecurities with skin colour, hair texture and facial features. Yes black women are annoyed by beauty standards and some have racial hang ups but she takes it to the extreme and capitalizes on that insecurity. She always finds the most ignorant/insecure black women to put on her show. One black chick said she hated her skin because it was too dark until her white boyfriend (read white savior) came along and told her she was pretty. She used this as her reasoning to stay with him despite his constant philandering Another example is that chick that started crying about how no man of any race wants her. I understand the need to talk about colorism in the black community but I think Tyra Banks is more concerned with garnering sympathy for these women than actually changing mindsets.
Moreover Banks is a major hypocrite, how can she sit up on stage telling people to appreciate thier racial features when she wears a long straight blond weave. She says the weave is necessary for modeling but she has retired from that and still wears wigs. What’s the deal? Even on top model she weaves up the black girls with the straight Eurpoid hair. I have never seen her request an Afro weave for her black contestants, the closed she got was Nnenna and her low cut natural hair.
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Aside: Europeans arent blameless either. They may be more open minded when it comes to IRR and picking black models but there is still race politics in the European fashion world and beyond.
Take a look at Prada, Versace, or Mui Mui print ads over the last decade… how many non-whites can you count. If you combined all those fashion house and counted how many non white model they had you could probably do it on one hand…
Most Europeans are not living in the post racial fantasy land. Look at so called “liberal” France many black immigrants and natives go through discrimination
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Y,
Wow! I totally agree about Wendy and Tyra. Your take on Oprah is a new perspective for me. I never viewed her in that way, but now that you mention it, that could be true. But, I think she has done a lot for black women in business.
You’re right, WW is a baffoon and her show does nothing to enchance our image.
I noticed that Tyra is very self-absorbed and seems so concerned about girls and women. But I’ve seen where some of her guests say that when the camera is off, she is totally different.
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I can name more than Nnenna (she was so pretty btw)
Yaya got to keep her natural hair
In cycle 4 they were going to let a girl keep the red afro hair she had but a stylist damged it so they had to cut it off.
Bre and Nik got to keep their natural hair
In another cycle a girl called Bianca was going to have her hair dyed blonde and she said how she was going to look like a streetwalker but her hair was damaged when they were doing it and they offered her a wig but she didn’t want it a wore her hair low cut
There are other few black models in ANTM that had their hair bald. but forgot their names. I hoped that Tyra would have kept Aminat afro weave that was nice.
In the most recent one a girl has her own hair that is relaxed and long and Tyr didn’t cut it just made it curly a big
Yes I have watched almost every season lol.
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@Y – I don’t know, I feel that the U.S. has made SOME strides. Compare 1970’s fashion industry & the media compared to 2010. I’m not saying everything is roses here, and there most certainly is room for improvement.
Black women are beautiful – period. I keep trying to convince my wife to let her hair go “natural”, and she will not let go of her “straight” hair. (I’m surprised her flat iron is permanantly fixed to her hand. – lol ) Joking aside, I see a lot more natural hair on the streets on the streets as an expression of Black beauty than I would in Brazil. My wife sometimes makes comments (in private to me of course) about others”taming that hair and/or straightening it” and I’m like: Are you kidding? HER HAIR IS BEAUTIFUL!” I’ve gotten my wife to go natural, but that was only because we on the beach for a few days in Brazil.
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Aiyo
I understand what you are saying but pay close attention. True Yaya got to keep her natural hair but pay attention, what grade of hair did Bre and Nik have???
Aside from Yaya the black contestants that got to keep there hair had the “right” type of hair.
Its funny Im saying this because I used to adore Tyra Banks. It wasnt until I grew up a little bit and started to really look at the things right before my eyes. She claims she wants black women to be mainstreamed as beautiful like other races but she is failing.
She has the opportunity and all the resources in the to promote black women as they are yet she doesnt. She cant even promote her own natural hair. If there was ever a beautiful black woman to promote black beauty its Tyra Banks. She is still beautiful and can pull it off. But no, instead she does a show about beautiful black women and all of them have bullshit weaves in their heads. Even if the hair was relaxed/pressed I would understand, but they had to get the long straight weaves.
When you look at black beauties that are in the spotlight it is a must that they not look so “black” …sure there are exceptions here and there but the rule maintains.
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moderation??
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@ islandgirl
I didnt view Oprah like that either until I got on Youtube and had these discussions with some people.
Dont get me wrong its not a bad thing that Oprah is successful black woman but she shouldn’t be black women’s only representative.
A lot of black women are aware of the stereotypes people have about us (video hoes, hyper-sexual and easy) and want to break free. Unfortunately I see too many black women running too far and grabbing onto the antithesis of the Jezebel stereotype. When we do that we get the asexual, mammy. We need a happy medium
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Before I really watched the Wendy Williams show and got to know more about her, I used to think that she was a caricature of NEGATIVE ANTI-BW stereotypes.
Wendy Williams comes from an educated, middle class Black family (her parents are retired educators and her siblings are professionals) and, of the top Black female talk show hosts, she’s the ONLY one who presents a DIVERSITY of POSITIVE Black women on her show (ranging from Patti Labelle/Natalie Cole to Regina Bell/Monica).
Wendy makes an effort to present BW in a UPLIFTING, NON STEREOTYPICAL way. I found it interesting that when Wendy interviewed Omarosa she challenged her behavior because she felt she was projecting a NEGATIVE image of BW. Although Omarosa responded in a defensive/rude manner, Wendy DID NOT respond in kind but stuck to her guns regarding her challenge to Omarosa. When Wendy had Whoopi on her show she publicly apologized to her for past offensive remarks she had made. She truly works hard to cultivate a spirit of solidarity with a variety BW she invites on her show.
I HAVE NOT seen Oprah or Tyra do this.
Although Wendy loves to wear wigs and dress in a flashy manner on her show (she says her personal syle is more understated), I appreciate that she’s not afraid to give her audience prudent, unpopular advice on money, relationships, or family matters. She’s not shy about outing NON-BW (audience members/guests) who wear wigs/extensions. Joan Rivers even admitted to Wendy/her audience that she wears extensions. This shows the world that women of ALL races wear extensions and there’s NOTHING WRONG with BW who do this. At the same time, she doesn’t put down BW who choose to wear their hair natural and you see this in her audience members and guests.
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@ laromana
Maybe I should watch her more to get a better view. I must admit what I have seem of Wendy was off putting, but Im open minded. Ill give her another go.
Personally I dont like wigs but I dont care if other black women wear them so long as
1. They dont companion when people say they dont like kinky hair (if you dont like what you have, how can you get made women some else doesnt like it?, Tyra is GUILTY of this)
2. Its not flashy…between Beyonce (Weavonce) and Williams I cant take any more blond black women!!!!
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Y,
Wow, you really just broke it down. *claps*
Tyra seems to have a lot of deep-seated insecurities, which is why she tries to”empathize” so much with BW with issues, when really she just pities them. Self-confident BW seem to make her uncomfortable, so she tries to take them down a peg (i.e., most of the college-educated women on ANTM, women who come on her show and are happy with their lives, etc.)
As for her disturbing fetish for light-skin and long hair (I think she has a fetish for stereotypical “biracialism”), my thoughts on it are here (sorry to thread jack Abagond, but I don’t want to retype everything):
http://jasminllenadegracia.blogspot.com/2009/11/my-tyrade.html
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@Y
I noticed that too of Nik and Bre I visit quite a few hair boards/forums and that was mentioned before that they had type 3 hair and all.
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Y and Jasmin, I remember when this biracial woman was trying out for ANTM, and she mentioned that girls “who didn’t have such good hair”were mean to her growing up. I was expecting Tyra to say something to her, as Mr. and Ms. Jay looked at the woman with confused and flabbergasted faces. But she said nothing… telling, no?
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@ Natasha W
Very telling…I used to think Tyra was so down to earth cnd cool but the more I watched her show the more I taken aback I became.
She has a superiority complex of one form or another. Even when she is intervention her guests she feels the need to interrupt them mid-sentence to add her .15 cents. She is always trying to “one up” them.
She does seem to admire a more mixed/non-black aesthetic, especially when it comes to hair. She talks a big game about expanding black beauty and getting dark skin black girls jobs but she doesnt go all the way. She has enough power to expose black beauty yet she manages to reinforce archetypes. Only 3 black women were allowed keep a natural hairstyle and of those three, two had the “right hair” grade. All the other black women were weaved up.
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Y,
Tyra definitely has a huge ego that must be heard at all times. Not that she isn’t well-meaning at times, but its evident that’s its the “me show,” with her, even when it’s not.
As far as her supporting black beauty and black women, I’m not so sure she’s been very successful in that. ANTM is okay, but her talk show has done more to downgrade black women in the last several years than anything else. From black woman “can get a man,” to skin bleaching, it’s just a mess. I had to think really hard for a response when my SO’s little sister asked me why black people bleach their skin, as she had seen on Tyra.
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*can’t
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Lena Horne has passed away at aged 92
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@ Y. and Laromana….you guys are on point! ITA.
While I do enjoy watching Tyra, there is something about her that bothers me. I’m not sure what it is.
As a biracial woman, I would like to see more beautiful Black women with dark skin being represented in different ways. Some new exciting faces instead of Halle, Beyonce, and Gabrielle Union. Natural hair would be a plus. 😉
About Oprah…I admire her success, but I agree that she can be viewed as kind of a mammy. White women love her because she seems “safe”.
If she were prettier (she is attractive but definitely not gorgeous), I have a feeling that some WW wouldn’t like it. I had a white female doctor who claimed to love Oprah and Queen Latifah. Hmm…could it be because they are both heavyset and not really glamorous? I wonder about that.
Tyra, being a former model, is visually very striking. She is tall and has nice curves. Her audience, like Oprah’s, is pretty mixed. But like some of you said…what bothers me is that she seems to promote a Eurocentric beauty ideal while paying lip service to issues like colorism. She seems to appear lighter with every show and the blonde and red weaves are out of control! Yet, there she is…talking to other Black women about self-esteem and feeling comfortable in one’s own skin.
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Reblogged this on Mbeti's Blog and commented:
Very Important aspect of life ,how you look…..
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