Here are the black men who currently (December 18th 2008 ) have a top 50 song in America (according to the Billboard Hot 100 list). Next to each I put the pictures and names of the latest women they have dated (according to whodatedwho.com). I list up to as many as five for each, the latest five:
Note: Whodatedwho.com moved their pictures, so while I fixed the links I brought the list up to date. The following is as of December 30th 2009 – a year after I wrote the post.
T.I.: Hoopz, Tiny, Paula DeAnda, LeToya Luckett.
Kanye West: Jennifer Metcalfe, Amber Rose, Amelie Berrabah, Brooke Crittenton, Alexis Eggleston.
Ne-Yo: Vivica Fox, Casha Darjean, Tennille Jimenez, Jesse White.
Akon: Susan Owori (not pictured), Gina Wild, Rozonda Chilli, Mina Zia Karkaragh.
Lil Wayne: Lauren London, Sarah Bellew, Trina, Nivea, Antonia Carter.
T-Pain: Amber
John Legend: Petra Nemcova, Christy Teigen, Tavo Otiti, Danielle Abreu, Wafah Dufour.
Jim Jones: ?
Jay-Z: Beyonce, Shenelle Scott, Rosario Dawson, Charlie Baltimore, Amil All Money Is.
Chris Brown: Natalie Mejia, Rihanna, Lil Mama, Keshia Chante, Teyanna Taylor.
Usher: Grace Miguel, Tameka Foster, Eishia Brightwell, Joy Bryant, Naomi Campbell.
I know, I know: Who cares who they date? That is their business, blah, blah, blah. True, but it is still hard not to be curious. A huge part of the magazine industry is built on this stuff. I went to whodatedwho.com to find out about Jessica White, who I was writing a post on, but then got drawn in.
The thing that struck me is how light-skinned most of these women are. Well, how most of them are considerably lighter than the men dating them. I was not born yesterday, I know rich and successful black men often marry white women and all that, but even so I did not expect to see the light-skinned/white-skinned woman thing on such a scale.
I thought maybe it was just an accident of who I was looking up, so I chose just those who have a current hit song. That way I would have no control over who made the list, making it a fairer sampling.
The lightness of the women seemed strange to me because it does not match anything in my experience. Most black men I know married medium to dark-skinned women. On occasion there will be someone who seems to chase just light-skinned women or even marry a white woman, but they are hardly the rule.
It would be bad statistics to draw any conclusions from this list and, besides, everyone knows that Jay-Z and the rest do not live in our world.
But still I wonder why it is like that. Why?
The people at Essence or Black Men magazine would see nothing strange in this: black men prefer light-skinned women. It seems to be an article of faith with some black women. Others, like Steve Sailer and the intellectual skinheads at majorityrights.com, would say it is because black men secretly want white women because they are so much better looking than black women.
This list would seem support ideas like that since these men are rich and famous enough that they can have pretty much any kind of woman they want. Except that it would be dangerous to draw conclusions based on such a small and strange sample.
See also:
- whodatedwho.com
- colourism
- Black Men magazine
- Jessica White
- more on some of the women:
- intellectual skinheads:
- majorityrights.com, who I talk about in this post: Maria Shriver’s jaw
- Steve Sailer
Intersting post. The topic of BM seeking out lighter skinned women is huge. I won’t address it at length here. You have addressed “colourism” issues in other posts on this blog. I think that without question this tendency reflects resonances of historical racial oppression in our society.
One of the ironies in this issue is that, while BM, at least those of certain socioeconomic status, may tend to seek out lighter skinned women, WM who are attracted to BW tend in general to be drawn to darker skinned BW. Go figure.
I note Akon listed as one of the stars. I’ve never been able to feel Akon, partly because I find most modern R&B to be lowest common denominator pabulum, but specifically with Akon because of his use of digitial pitch correction to an extreme degree, such that the sense of Portamento is eliminated from his vox, giving them that “warbly gerbil” effect often referred to as the “Cher Effect,” so named because Cher’s “Believe” was one of the first major radio hits to use this effect to an audible degree.
Lately, though, I have been softening my stance on this. Perhaps there is another way of seeing it. Instead of being simply a cheap studio gimmick designed to speed the process of the star-maker machine throwing another pretty young face up the pop charts, one could see this as being yet another step in the youthful inventiveness of pop music. We have seen other technology being gleefully embraced by youth and then incorporated into pop music, from the electric guitar to the mixing turntables to the digital sampler, etc.
Naw, I still don’t feel it. Maybe if there was some level of craft to the lyric writing, as there often is in some of the better hip hop. Without at least that, it’s just pabulum to me.
Akon, by the way, was born Aliane Thiam, the son of virtuoso Senegalese percussionist Mor Thiam. Mor Thiam enjoys worldwide acclaim for his mastery of various percussion instruments. Among other gigs, he performed for years as a member of Don Pullen’s African Brazilian Connection. I had the honor of seeing them perform live, mainly cuts from their amazing “Ode to Life,” back in about 1993/1994 at the San Francisco Jazz Festival. It still ranks as one of the best live musical performances I have seen in life. I felt like the process of being present while these masters created this wondrous gift actually elevated my spirit.
I wonder what pere — a serious, heavy musician who has performed with some of the top jazz artists in the history of mankind, producing works of profound beauty and lasting impact — would have to say about the music of fils — whose glib, facile pop music has less depth than a petri dish.
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How many black men you know? Being a black female myself I’ve always been around black men and I can honestly say they rather have lighter skin/white skin women.
I think the black men you are around are a small minority.
You take a look at many black male musicians/entertainers from the 50’s, 60’s (before black men had access to white women) and see what complexion the women they where with. Most where very light skin.
If you’re surprised by this small sample then take a look at who NBA players are married to…
Dwayne Wade is probably the only one I’ve see married to a black woman the same shade as himself which is dark skin.
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LOL, Aba, interesting spin-off post.
I also noticed this pattern of light spouses, but more so with NBA players. Not that many famous black men are married to white women but a LARGE portion do seem to go in a whiter-looking direction with the women they tend to date.
Yet all this shows is that many black American males equate white-looking women with “making it”. Goes to show you that colorism with black Americans is rooted more in class and social position and less in simple ideas of attractiveness.
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One major flaw with the post, Aba:
Many of these women actually never dated these fellas. For instance, T.I. and Letoya Luckett never dated. She was engaged to the rapper Slim Thug for years.
And actually, if you look at many NFL players and other famous black dudes, you do see them with non-light black women. Obama, Denzel, Sam Jackson, Danny Glover, Martin Lawrence, Jermaine O’Neal (NBA guy), Eric Snow (NBA), Lebron James, Omar Epps, several rappers and a bunch more are the examples that merely spring at the top of my head.
And LLUP’s wrong, this light skin thing didn’t occur until recently. Many older musicians were married to women they grew up with. And white women were never out of their reach. That might part of the reason a lot of these guys go in the direction of getting a whiter-looking woman: a status symbol unattached to the sigma of an interracial romance.
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Also, T-Pain has a child with an Atlanta female rapper named Ms. Cherry. You can google her. She’s far from light skinned.
Iman and Kanye West never EVER dated. Neither did Chili and Akon.
Ne-Yo and Vivica (who dated 50) …never.
Please, Aba, when it comes to noted people, being an internet sleuth isn’t a good thing at all.
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I was surprised by the Ne-Yo/Vivica and the Iman/Kanye thing too. I mean, Iman is married to David Bowie. If she were cheating on him, it would be better known than that.
The website also says that Missy Elliott dated Tweet, which I know Tweet denies.
On the other hand I do not have the time to chase all these down and find out which are true and which are false. I am just hoping (fingers crossed) that they are right in the main.
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That is heartening to hear, about the NFL players, etc.
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One more thing (sorry for all the posting, these posts provoke thought):
LLUP, what kind of black men are YOU around? The vast majority of black men around the world romantically stick to black women. Period. Fact.
The few black guys I’ve seen or known who “preferred” white women (and believe me, I’ve lived ALL OVER) were those who grew up in a white social context. So, it made sense that they’d go in that direction. They are a product of their environment.
Actually, I live in a middle class “mixed” social context. I know plently of high-status black males. Few are dating or married to non-black women. And I don’t even know that many black folks who’d I would call light-skinned, let alone see anyone have any “preference” for them. That’s another thing, people forget when they try to throw black folks against “light skinned” blacks: they’re in the minority. So how far does it really go, you know?
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Akon: I cannot stand him either and it is his voice that does it. Whatever he did to it, he needs to stop. I would think his father sees him as a sell-out who is wasting his talent.
As to current R&B: most music on the radio or on the charts is no good. That has always been true, no matter what the year or what the style of music. The old days always seems like it had better music (once we get over a certain age) because we only remember the good stuff.
Sometimes VH-1 has a rewind show, like about the 1980s, and it only serves to remind me of all the terrible songs I had to hear back then in order to hear the good ones.
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Yeah, Chanel Iman was the model who West was rumoured to be dating. Yet that turned out to be false.
Most of those of those couplings are false. Except for Wayne/Nivea and some of Usher’s conquests.
Tiny and T.I. were together before he was famous. She’s the one who orchestrated his record contract by her connects. She’s super ugly, so I doubt she’s a “trophy”. LOL.
Yeah, not all of them go in this direction. Just a large segment. Or at least the segment who are more publicized. Derek Fisher (NBA), Eddie George (NFL), Doug Christie (NBA), Jason Kidd (NBA), Jasyson Richardson (NBA), actor Coby Bell….
just a few examples of noted black males who married women who are darker than they are. Perhaps, there is a good degree of variety in the dating world of the famous minority than you and I intially thought.
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One thing I missed from the previous post:
I know for a fact that many of the guys you posted above weren’t dating those women because at least two of those guys is GAY in real life. But I’m not one to gossip …
(I have connects to the industry, if you couldn’t tell by previous posts. LOL).
Mekhi Phifer (Malinda Williams’ ex husband), Kerry Rhodes (NFL player-dated Jennifer Hudson), Gabby Union’s string of pro athlete boyfriends (one of whom she married and divorced; she also dated Derek Jeter- the media never really picked it up), the NFL dude who dated Fantasia, Common (w/ Serena and Taraji Henson- both darker than him), Lloyd Polite (R&B singer), Malcolm Jamal Warner …more examples to counter what we’re talking about.
Anyway, you’re right most of the music that the corporate music industry shovels out is garbage. It’s all exploiting a current fade and making money. Yet, music from the ’60s and ’70s as a whole was WAY better, even the commerical stuff. But you’re right, by the late ’80s, things got oversynthized and tinny. And it’s been a downward spiral ever since.
You should do a post on your all time favorite albums or perhaps, a “best songs of the ’80s” type of list. That would be interesting.
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This post grew out of comments on the “colourism” post. One commenter there, michael, pointed out that this thing about black men liking light-skinned women is something you mainly hear from women, not men. And when I think back, he is right. And the cases you can think of are mainly celebrities – not people you know.
I know about 20 black men who are married, give or take. Two are married to light-skinned women (one of them from Kenya!) and a third to an Indo-Guyanese woman (is that the right word?) who was his high school sweetheart. Only one married a white women (even before I knew about his wife he seemed like black-skinned white person). All the rest married medium to dark-skinned women.
People believe it because it falls in line with their colourism, through which they look at the world. Read my blog and you will see I am guilty of the same. They do not question it, even when their own experience shows it is not true.
For example, for my wife the idea that black men prefer light-skinned women is axiomatic, an article of faith, the way of the world. Yet she is dark-skinned and has never had trouble getting a man she wants or even marriage proposals (at least five).
So it simply does not hold up.
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Please read my post. I never said black men don’t vastly stick with black women romantically.
Most men actually people in general stick with their own. Despite the high IRR trends.
What I did say is from what I’ve seen/experience many black men go for lighter/white skinned and I’ll add European features type of women. I see it and many other black women, all the time.
There have always been darker skinned black males going for women considered lighter then them. It’s nothing new.
And no black men did not have access to white women in the 60’s and before, unless they didn’t mind getting their ass beaten or dying.
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LLUP,
You’re out of your mind if you think that a white woman was ever out of a black man’s reach! It may have been frowned upon (and still is) but never unfeasible. You sound very young.
Ok, you’ve seen a lot of a black guys (what shade were these guys? How come no one ever brings up the shade of the men? What if a “light” guy has a thing for “light” women? Are “darker skinned” men only supposed to date women as dark as them? What about black women, do you see color preferences with them too?) who fell for a whiter looking woman of a color. Me and several others have seen the opposite. Who’s wrong? No one. Everyone’s experiences and perceptions are different.
BTW, by far, most black women aren’t light skinned so with your reasoning, we can say that the great majority of black woman can assurdely say that they’ve never had a date. No?
Aba, pure-blooded Africans come in a variety of phenotypes so that’s no suprise about your buddy’s Kenyan spouse.
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White women being out of Black men reaches is not what I meant. I meant they hardly went near them back then because there would be hell to pay.
So they kept their distance. Now they have the freedom to be with them without having to worry about being beaten/killed.
The black that usually seek lighter skinned women are usually dark skin or brown skin. Especially the former.
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In the Jim Crow South white women were pretty much out of bounds for black men. Emmett Till and all that. That was the whole idea of behind all those lynchings, even if many of them turned out to be about other things.
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LLUP,
What do you make of all the counterexamples I presented towards your argument about NBA players and other celebs for example? What do you make of the variety of marriage patterns that goes on with these guys? That it’s far from cut and dry?
You also didn’t answer the questions I presented in the previous post. It’s because you can’t. You sound very young and provinical. No wonder you’re around such simple-minded black boys (not men) who make unrealistic “expectations” with the women they “seek”. You don’t seem to be too far from their level of thought, from your comments.
Aba, not to sound foul, but white women have been finding a way to get their hands on a black man since the days of Adam. LOL. Yes, there was hell to pay in some parts of the country if miscegnation was merely suspected but it damn sure didn’t stop it from happening.
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I think that is what both LLUP and I have been trying to say: that it was rare because there was hell to pay if you were discovered, at least in some parts of the country.
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Light men do have a “thing” for light skin women. I hardly see any of them with darker women either. I’m not saying dark men HAVE to date darker women just as dark as them. No one has to do anything if they don’t want to.
But what’s wrong with that? Why purposely seek out lighter skinned women with “good hair”. (In case you haven’t caught on when I say black men I’m referring to African American because continental black men for the most part are quite different).
Black women have color preferences (mainly dark skinned) but they seem to like all shades as long as he’s black. Black women don’t go out seeking “good hair” Euro features in black men. Or turn a black men down because he’s “too dark”.
Okay you haven’t seen or obviously experienced this. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on.
It’s no secret that the AA community has a color issue.
I talk to black women (various ages) everyday and they will tell you the same thing about AA men.
I’ll give you an example: When I was in high school I had a friend (we where both 18) who was light skin. Nothing really stood out about her (she didn’t have DD’s or a big ass) she was my size, on the slim side. Facial wise she was average looking. Make the story short.
We walked home together from school everyday. She had about 6 different black men (yes some where men) flirting, trying to get her number etc… Just random guys on the street. It was also the same way in school.
Now back then I thought something was wrong with the way I looked. It didn’t cross my mind that she was light skinned and I was brown skinned and that played a factor in why all these young black men (who where mostly dark or medium brown skinned, couple of them where light) until I got older and picked this up about AA men. Many of them will seek out lighter skinned women.
I thought I was the only one who experienced such a thing. Until I’ve talked to other black women about it.
Many of them have similar experience instances to mine.
I just don’t deal with AA men. Only the ones in my family. Even though there’s a couple in my family who do not date black women.
I see the same crap in college now. Black guys chasing white women. Mean while the black women (who only want black men) are off to the side standing alone or hanging out only with each other.
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LLUP,
I’m so sorry for your misfortunes with black men. While you and several other black women do report similar experiences, do know that MANY MORE black women have the opposite experiences.
So, from what you’re saying, most black women are in the dumps and aren’t light enough to catch a black man’s attention. Right?
You still didn’t answer any of my questions.
You’re kidding yourself, dear, I’ve heard several secondhand ancedotes of black women talking about how they wanted their children to have “good hair” and the such. It’s just that these women don’t have the leeway to just pick any man they want.
Out of curiosity, where do you live?
And what do you make of the countless black women who don’t have your problem? Is it a factor in location, you think?
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This is my last comment about this topic…
Read my post again I answered your questions. You’re conviently ignoring it.
I did not say most black women are in the dumps. This is what I’m observing with AA men & AA women relations. Personally I think AA women need to start opening up their options more. Which many of them are. But there is still a majority of them oblivious to AA men behaviors.
You’re taking me literally. I’m not saying there aren’t any black men out there who like darker skin women. Those men are in the minority though.
Black people in general seem to fawn over other blacks with “good hair”. But black women are not seeking out white men in high rates to produce children with “good hair”. ( keep in mind AA men date out of their race 3 times the rate that AA women do) AA men (not all but many) on the other hand seek out non black women with the intentions in many cases of producing children with “good hair”. And obviously the women themselves having “long hair that blows in the wind”.
Good for those black women who found non self hating black men. Those men are not the majority of AA men though.
If you think my experiences are “kidding” myself or “very young and provincal” go check out some of the IRR blogs on line. And actually do it please. Don’t ignore my request.
You would find those black women have the same observations I had/have about AA men. Not continental black men or carribean. AA!
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You’re obviously very young, LLUP. And the internet is very unrepresenative of general society. Just those who get worked up by certain topics, like us.
It’s telling that you refer to “good hair”. You obviously have an idea of what are good, desirable features. And what are not. Interesting.
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Also, LLUP, one of the main reason she has problem w/ black men is because she has problems with herself. Many black females who are hellbent on these types of subjects usually do. The reason why wealthy black men aggresively persued my mother and why all the countless other black women me and others have known never had a problem being desired is because they had confidence and loved themselves.
They didn’t need some random guy “hollering” at themselves to feel good about themselves. It was just a simple accessory, if you will.
LLUP and all the commentators like her simply have issues. Get a mind of your own and love yourself.
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Does any black woman who speaks of black men behavior and how most treat black women is having “problems with herself”?
Those blogs is uplifting black women. Sorry if it offends you that they may be putting black men down to you. The reason why black men come up a lot is AA women mainly associate mainly and in most cases ONLY with AA men.
Telling the truth about most black men behavior leave a lot of black offended like you.
Take a look at when Bill Cosby and Barack Obama came out telling AA men take care of your children, pull your pants up, stay in school etc… All in the black community got mad. Saying they should mind their business, they’re airing dirty laundry ( as if whites and others don’t see this) blah, blah…
I don’t have a problem with myself. I don’t know WTF your talking about. You obviously have a vested interest in protecting black men collective ego’s.
You dismissed my experiences by saying I’m “young” ( I’m been in this world long enough. I’m a grown woman 24, I’m not a child. I’m not stupid either. I find that you’re being quite disrespectful as if you’re talking to a 12 y/o) and other black women they I know in my everyday life as them not “loving themselves”.
Heck there are some black men out there admit to this lighter women syndrome.
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Like I said you come across as being very young, which you admitted you are. It comes across in your viewpoint. You also bob and duck certain questions that you can’t answer.
“Airing dirty laundy”? Please. Your age is really showing. You’re not telling me anything I haven’t heard before. You seem to ignore what me and other commentators are saying. Your (stereotypical)experiences are not exactly the rule. Everyone’s experience with race is different.
Why do you keep saying “most” like you know “most” men. Please. And you also keep ignoring what others are telling you. Who’s offended? You’re not saying anything new or potent. LOL.
Out of curiosity, how do you equate a black man liking a woman who’s lighter than him as self hatred? Are “light skinned” women less black to you? Less authenthic? And this backs up what you seem to skip over: light-colored black women are in the minority, so how far would that go? With the way you’re carrying on, you’d assume that few black women have ever attracted black men since the great majority of black women are not white looking.
Hell, most light-colored black women don’t have straight hair or white-leaning features. Where do you live? Because it seems like light colored black folks are just predominate, where in reality, they are in the minority.
Like I said, you obviously do have issues with yourself. And that’s OK, you’re young, you’ll experience more of the world and maybe come to accept yourself for who you are. No matter what anyone else says. Maybe that will help your luck with men.
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well i want to say that it’s sad that some black men would only date light skinned women because they are seen more attractive than dark skinned women. plus i didn’t that akon dated a white woman so i don’t believe that most of those males dated those women. as for the music industry, i still think that they are good music. yes i’m young but there are good musicians out there and i happen to like akon. his voice is annoying but i think he puts out good songs that you can listen to. i mean people always have something to say about what the young generation are listening to. not all are good but you have artists like alicia keys, mary j. blige, kanye west, john legend, and so many other good artists. but the music industry choose a bunch of people that can’t sing, that has no talent, and they get recognize more than the ones that do have talent. things have changed but i believe that there’s good music right now but people want to complain because it’s not the music that they listen to when they were younger. if you want to do something then why not boycott the music industry for having fake ass artists that can’t sing? if you can’t do that then listen to the music that you’re to listening to.
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Mynameismyname …
I’m definitely with you on this topic. LLUP you have issues within your self. How does a black man dating lighter or white skinned women make him self hating? How does that make him ashamed or disgusted with himself to the point of despair? (In case you didn’t know the meaning of “self hate” which you probably don’t because you used it out of context) You obviously deem lighter skinned women more attractive than yourself. How do you know those guys didn’t try to “holler” at you but your friend instead because they just simply did not find you attractive? Or just found her more attractive than you? How do you know it was because of the color of her skin? Hmm? You don’t know, you think you know because you yourself find lighter skin more attractive. Do not use your own isecurities and accuse blk men of a crime that they (as a collective) are not guilty of. Everyone is different. I am a brown skinned black American female and your views are just not held by all of us. Your views aren’t even held by blk men @ all. My boyfriend is about 10 shades lighter than me “light bright” if you will, and his eyes are about 10 shades lighter than mine and yes he is black. That just kills your “light guys prefer light wmn” claim. Its not true for a lot of blk men. How can you, a black woman, be the spokesperson for what blk men like? Smh. Whatever. Your brown skin is beautiful … I think you needed to hear that, you most certainly do not think so. Insecurity at its FINEST.
Its not sad that some blk men only date white women. Some white guys only date black wmn. And in every single race those kind of people are a minority. I can name a few white sucessful men who seemingly prefer blk wmn. Just stop … sometimes us women let our insecurities get the very best of us. Anyway Hats off to you Aba nice post. From the sounds of it, your wife is beautiful. 5 marriage proposals?? I haven’t gotten even ONE! LOL
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Hi, As a moderately famous actress my reputation is important, therefore i would like to state, whilst i abhor racism, i would never date outside of my race.
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Jennifer said: therefore i would like to state, whilst i abhor racism, i would never date outside of my race.
**************
It’s good to know you will stick to the human race. God forbid, you go outside your race and marry a turtle. How horrid!
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Perhaps “Ms. Metcalffe” should give up on all dating until “she” can spell her own last name correctly, LOL.
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I do double takes when I see a black man with a woman who’s darker than he is. Even in my huge family, there’s ONE example out of literally hundreds.
Do I care? Not really. The prettiest kid in my family also happens to be the darkest. I think it’s unfortunate that she’s 7 and has a major color complex already. I think it’s more unfortunate that as she gets older, the only black man who will probably tell her she’s beautiful is her daddy (which is more than most can say btw) and that the most she’ll get is maybe a pretty-for-a-dark-skinned-girl crap when she’s older.
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That sounds a bit extreme. My wife is dark-skinned and I tell her she is beautiful.
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Jennifer Metcalffe said:
Hi, As a moderately famous actress my reputation is important, therefore i would like to state, whilst i abhor racism, i would never date outside of my race.
If you abhor racism, they why do you not date outside your race? And why do you think your reputation is at stake if others thought you did?
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I’ve gone out enough with my friends to know that it’s not an extreme view.
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LOL! Black folks need to stop all the lying.
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So they daye every shade of pasty!!!! SURPRISING ISN’T IT???? is my sacasm a bit much?
so what!!! we have to value the man in the street as much as we do, the ones in the papers.
If a man is so shallow and empty-headed then he surely does not deserve a black woman!!! Or any woman at all!!
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I meant to say date not daye!
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generally black men do prefer lighter women. its to the point where they look at an average or barely cute light girl the same as they do a stunningly beautiful dark skinned girl. a lotta light skin girls get an automatic “pretty pass” but if you are dark and pretty people wont notice it as much or say that oh your pretty to be dark.
all shades of black women can be equally beautiful but there are too many color struck people who act like that isnt true.
i noticed this and i’m not dark or light, i’m smack in the middle brown skinned so i am being totally objective.
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Wow! Very interesting article. I remember back in the day when black women dated white men they were called “sellouts” (I use to hear that from my brothers as I was growing up…) Here in Las Vegas there are A Lot of black men w/white female partners. I’m from NY & have never seen it as much as here in LV.
I also want to say, look at the image of Black women all around us. Very few “natural” hair styles. A lot of “special effects” going on. Loads of makeup, wigs and weaves. Just look at the photos posted above. So for young brothers, not surprising what image of “beauty” they have for Black women based on what they are growing up with. When I see sisters doing this, I have to ask myself, how can we expect Black men to be true to us when we aren’t really being true to ourselves…Love me as a Black woman while you’re running your hand through my blond weave???? I LOVE my nappy hair, because that is something that nobody can mimic; it is one of the features that makes us truly unique and celebrates the African roots within us!!
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Darker skin men do tend to go after lighter females a lot of it is self-hate. Light skin guys or guys confident in their looks appreciate darker skin women and often marry them ie., Obama, Denzel, Derek Fisher, etc. It seems like the darker the black male and the more african facial features he has- the lighter his female counterpart will be. Also take a look at their moms (the moms of Dark-skinned men) their girlfriends or wives look like the complete opposite of their MOms. It’s sad.
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OH YEAH, I must add that to most men it is the facial features that count the facial features makes the beauty… So if a sister is dark and has attractive features she won’t have problems attracting any Black man (for the most part) look at Jessica White, Toni Braxton–I also get you are pretty or cute to be brown-skinned line from some guys.
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Toni Braxton is not dark skinned.
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Most black women who are considered lightly-complexioned usually go for black men much darker than themselves. Is that self-hate?
It’s rather “silly” to use the relative darkness or lightness of someone’s mate’s skin as a litmus test for how that person feels about blackness. It’s not that simple.
Cheyenne,
Black people are a dark skinned race of people. Just to different degrees. What’s “light skinned” and “brown skinned” is only relative to the absolute darkest black person. It’s relative.
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My comment above got cut off:
So, no, Cheyenne, there’s no way a person that any black person (unless completely depigmentated) is “not dark skinned”.
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To :Cheyenne I didn’t mean Toni Braxton was very dark I just meant that she is not your typical light-skinned girl and yet she is viewed as being attractive
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…You know what I’d noticed about Men in general is that… BEAuty and the shade of a woman becomes less and less relevant depending on FAcial beauty and the WOMAN’S BODY (the woman’s body is more important to a man than women think) –if a man likes what he sees, he likes what he sees, rather if it’s Dark or Light.. COlor is irrelevant unless the guy has a “color complex” issue–then who wants him anyway.
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mynameismyname: My Black sister is whiter than most white people I know, so your statement that Black people are a dark-skinned race of people is silly. Also, there are other races that have very dark-skinned people and they are not Black, but will be assumed Black, or African-American based on the color of the skin. Not all white-skinned people are Caucasian or “White-American”.
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Cheyenne,
Look up the word “black”, as it pertains to race, in the dictionary.
If you read my previous comment, I said that unless a black person is completely depigmentated, they are a member of a dark skinned race of people. That’s a simple fact. Nothing to dispute.
Who said that people of Sub-saharan African descent are the only race of darkly pigmentated people? Of course, Aboriginals, Pacific Islanders, Asians (South and Southeast as well as many Easteners) also fit the criteria. Of course, there are deep variances in the SHADE of skin but characteristically, these groups of people are dark skinned.
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mynameismyname – Shouldn’t you be out on a ledge somewhere? Maybe you should spend the precious little time we have in life looking at people as people instead of colors and pigments, and dictionary definitions.
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^^^
Huh?
You brought up color and I corrected you. So, what are you carrying on about? I DO look at people as people. Sadly, it seems like most people don’t. It is what it is.
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Cheyenne–I just wanted to comment on your comment about BW women wearing weaves, makeup etc., and not being natural and how this confuses the brothas or turn them off…Well explain why they turn around and date/marry a BLEACHED BLONde– in case you didn’t know white women wear tracks and weaves too and religiously dye/bleach their hair.
(BTW I don’t wear a weave I’m jus askin)
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Yeah, white women wear weaves, extensions and falls just as much as anyone else.
They also bald quicker too because of the loose stringiness of their hair.
Actually, most famous black dudes don’t marry white women of any hair color. They appear to rather go “damn near white” or “wife up” a “round the way chick”. There’s exceptions but for the most part that’s the way it seems for a lot of the black male pop celebs.
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To mynameismyname; No, I didn’t bring up color. I responded to jodee’s post where she was referring to dark skin women & used Jessica White & Toni Braxton as examples. I responded to Jodee that Toni is not dark skinned & jodee responded that she meant something else when she referenced Toni. You, however, wanted to break it down to the roots, which I think is not necessary. Why? Because, no matter how you break it down Toni Braxton is NOT considered a dark skinned African-American/Black woman. And incidently, I was messing w/you about being out on a ledge…I do respect your passion.
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jodee: I never said it turned brothers off or confuses them. Like most people they will be influenced by the images put out there of what beauty supposedly is. And, let me make clear my statement does not pertain to every black man or woman. I have 4 brothers, and I know what they have told me about their feeling about weaves. When I look at some of the color choices some sisters choose, I have to ask why? And, hell yeah white women wear weaves and wigs, but the color choices don’t stand out nearly as much as some sisters and their “blonde” weaves, or very straight hair that obviously is not real, or dyed a color so unnatural to their skin tone, Stevie Wonder isn’t buying it. When I can spot a weave around the corner, it’s time for a change. Very rarely do I see a sister w/a weave/wig and you cannot tell. I’ll ask as I think it’s more polite than staring.
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Chey,
There’s no actual passion, my friend. It just irks me when people state untruths. That’s all. You’re out of your mind if you think someone like Toni Braxton isn’t dark skinned or wouldn’t be considered dark skinned. Maybe not among many other black Americans but among everyone else…psst…
Maybe many black women weaves (of assorted colors) for fashion purposes? Ha! MANY white women wear their (fake) hair in an assortment of wild styles. That’s not exclusively a “black thing” at all.
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mynameismyname: You’re damned right Toni Braxton wouldn’t be considered dark skinned among other black Americans. And, I know A LOT of whites, Latinos, Asians who wouldn’t consider her dark skinned either. If you’re considering her dark skinned compared to white skin, then dah, of course; but that was not the context of the posters’ comment, or the context of this web article. And please don’t talk to me about truths and untruths. Just because it’s your OPINION doesn’t make it true, or untrue. So respect my difference of opinion as I respect yours.
And, as far as weaves, there are other reasons besides fashion that SOME black women choose to wear them, and I never said it was just a “black thing”. Those are your words. As a black woman, I can better relate to being a black woman and SOME of the things we do as opposed to white woman, and I am sure it is the same for white women. As women we share the same issues sometimes, but when it comes down to race and culture,even environment, as women we are not all the same when it comes to what drives us.
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If someone says that Toni or the vast majority of black women are “not dark skinned”, they mean relative to the absolute darkest. Duh! How hard is that to understand?
Trust me, most non-blacks would see her as “dark”. Not the darkest black person in the world, but dark nevertheless. Is she not? Are most black women not? It’s not an argument, Cheyenne. It’s common sense. It’s like a 6’2″ man saying he’s “not tall” because he looks shorter next to a 6’10” man. They’re both tall. It’s just that one’s taller than the other. It’s relative.
For perspective, I’ve read many black Americans on the internetcall Meagan Good and Michelle Obama “dark skinned” when they’re not much darker than Toni. So, it’s completely subjective.
Many women have racialized issues with their hair. Yet, I do believe that fashion choices are the key catalyst behind their actions.
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mynameismyname: Based on your statements ALL of the women (except the white women) pictured above would be considered “dark-skinned”. The first sentence in the second paragraph of the article reads: “The thing that struck me is how light-skinned most of these women are.” That is the premise of this article and my post and others are responding to that.
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“The vast majority of black women are not dark-skinned?” Where the heck did you get that? Remember, I am black and there are many shades of black. In our world that is from very light, to light to olive to red to brown to black. Dont’t worry, I don’t expect you to understand.
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LOL.
Okay, let me try to break this down.
Of course, blacks, like any other race, come in an array of shades and hues. Matter of fact, blacks have the most variety in terms of physical appearances. I’ve said that many times on this very blog when other commentators tried to imply otherwise.
Yet, people of sub-Saharan African descent, are a dark skinned race of people. Everyone knows that. C’mon. When someone calls a black person “light skinned”, it’s because they’re thought to be “light for a black person”. (Like Aba was saying when he made the observation about the women above). Blacks naturally are of a dark shade, like South Asians, Aboriginals and Arabs are. There’s many shades of darkness. All blacks have some variation of brown skin, it’s just the matter of what shade it is. That’s completely subjective, as we both know.
I’m not talking about how dark a black person is relative to the full color range of their race. That’s all individual perception. I’m talking about in a full, world context.
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Cheyenne,
You seem slow so let me use this example.
Have you ever watched a televised basketball match? Have you ever heard the commentator ever say something in the vein of “So-and-so is a small guy. About 6’4″ and 200 lbs.”
Now, in real-life, 6’4″ is considered to be very tall. (The average man is 5’9″.) Yet in a basketball team, where you got some 7 footers walking around, that height isn’t very tall.
Apply that same logic to skin shade and blacks. I can’t believe I have to tell a black person this. But hopefully this makes sense for you.
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mynameis….What you are doing is overthinking, over analyzing. It’s very simple; in the Black-AMERICAN “world” Toni Braxton is NOT considered a dark-skinned black woman. So you can build it up anyway you want, but let’s agree to disagree, okay? ‘Nuff said.
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mynameis….DO NOT INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE BY ACCUSING ME OF BEING “SLOW” BECAUSE I DON’T AGREE W/YOUR SORRY ASS. Yes, now I am going to go there. You are obviously to stupid to see that I don’t have to agree with what I understand. It is pure vanity to expect others to do as you do, or to think as you do.
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Cheyenne,
If Michelle Obama and Meagan Good are repeatedly perceived as “dark skinned” to other blacks, then why wouldn’t Toni be? All blacks perceive shade the same?
You seem offended that someone has pointed out that blacks are a dark skinned. Interesting.
I didn’t say that you have to “agree” with me. I just don’t get why you get overlook an obvious fact. For the record, this is the first time I’ve ever had a black person dispute that people of black African descent are indeed a dark complexioned race of people. The internet really bring them out …
I’m done.
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myname\is…None of my post state that people of black African descent are not a dark complexioned race of people. That is in your mind. What you can’t get is the fact that your concept of dark complexion & mine are not the same. The fact that you think I am offended that you point out that blacks are dark skinned is in your mind, too. You are making a mole hill out of a statement made to someone elses post. Yes, the internet brings “them” out. You should know, and I doubt that you’re done.
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Most black men should just admit that they are not attracted to African features. That is the reason why I date outside my race.
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Abagond, I believe you mean Chanel Iman for Kanye West. Iman is married to David Bowie.
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I miss the days when black people were trying to love themselves. In the 70’s, we were all about “black is beautiful”. We were wearing our hair natural and if we did press our hair with a hot comb, at least it wasn’t a weave. I have to say this. I hate weaves. It makes a beautiful black women look strange to me. As if she wasn’t good enough without the weave. To me weaves make black women look worse. And if she does wear fake hair, it looks best in the form of braids. Black women during the 70’s were so beautiful to me. They looked healthy( not overweight). I think we cooked more back then as opposed to eating out all the time. We ate greens, black eyed peas, etc. And our hair was so thick because we didn’t put perms in it. I look at old Soul Train episodes and old black television programs such as the Jeffersons and Good Time. Did you notice that the love interest on Good Times were beautiful African American women of darker complexions with natural or unpermed hair. I definitely did not see alot of weaves. God, I miss those days. I was just a child during the 70’s but I miss the culture, the Arts( Alvin Ailey dance troup), the music( Earth, Wind, and Fire), the mentality, the writers( Niki Giovani). We seemed so happy. Lets get back to that. To loving ourselves.
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Not to mention that weaves cost a fortune and that doesn’t include upkeep!
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Ive always had my own hair so I never wore a weave. But no matter how black women wear their hair rather its short like back in the day Toni Braxton, in an afro like Pam Grier, or a long weave like Naomi Campbell they are all beautiful to me. Wearing your hair a certain way does not always equal self hate.
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@leaveumthinking
Please say you don’t honestly buy into that crap!
I can’t speak for every black guy but I find black women attractive!
Yet I still date outside my race!
Why? Cos I’m a man!
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Black men marry black women at a vastly higher rate than they marry anyone else.
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@ Natasha:
Yes, Chanel Iman makes way more sense. I checked the website, however, and now there is no sort of Iman there at all (but they now have Amber Rose). It seems to have been a mistake on my part or theirs.
Thanks! Good catch.
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Leaveumthinking
Well, sometimes when a women has a weave it looks strange to me. For instance, I saw Toni Braxton with a weave once and to me she looks better with her hair short. Maybe, it depends on the individual I don’t know. Personally I think I look better with my hair long so I thank God I have longer hair but maybe I would wear a weave if it was very short, I don’t know. I don’t want to sound like a hyprocrite. It’s just that some women like Toni Braxton are beautiful just the way they are. I think we as black women should take care of the hair we have. Then, it would probably grow long by itself. You know, take a break from perms for a year or two so it won’t break off. Take vitamins like Biotin which is good for hair. What important is that we should be healthy. It is not always easy, I know. But that’s my opinion.
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Your right Abagond. The black men who are married are married predominately to black women. The 2000 census said that the number of black men married to black women was 4 million compared to the number of black men married to white women 375, 0000. So, 90 percent of black men are married to black women. Interracial marriage is not the problem. The problem is that there aren’t enough black people who are married. Blacks don’t marry at the same rate as other groups. Only half the number of black people are married that should be married if you compare the rates whites and asians are married. I don’t know what the problem is with our people when it comes to marriage. Anybody have any opinions?
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Note: I updated the post – to fix the broken picture links and to bring the list current.
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jeri:
RIGHT ON!!!!!
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I miss the days when black people were trying to love themselves. In the 70’s, we were all about “black is beautiful”………
jeri:
I meant “Right On” to your post as shown above. That one really struck a cord with me!
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There may be alot of black men DATING white women, not married to them. I don’t know. I really don’t see alot of interracial couples where I live. I see it alot on tv, like on reality shows and so forth. I am concerned that there is alot of mistrust between black men and women. Maybe that is why we don’t marry. I really don’t know. Please, someone offer opinions.
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Thank you, Abagond.
Cheyenne
Thanks, sister.
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I agree about with the whole marriage thing that is mentioned the whole new reports on it are so sensationlized it’s just stupid.
As for why people are not getting married as much these days could be a number of reasons divorce rates are higher than marriage rates.
My friend’s parents are together have three kids but are not married and don’t feel the need to get married. (maybe they feel marriage may ruin a good thing, oh well) Just because folks aren’t married it doesn’t make them automatically single.
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@Vindicator I am not buying into the bullcrap. I am just tired of black women being constantly judged and stereotyped. No other race of women are put down and criticized as much as black women. I am a proud black woman. I am also an individual and a human being who has feelings. Whenever I hear comments about dark skin being dirty or less attractive, comments like “pretty for a dark girl”, dark-skinned girls are ghetto, or hear about women who bleach their skin because they believe it will make them better; I die a little inside. Why? This self-hating mentality will be passed down to the next generation of innocent black girls. Also those statements offend me more coming from black men who for the most part share those same physical traits that they consider less appealing for example (dark skin, tightly coiled hair). How do they really feel about themselves? Better yet how do they feel mothers? I would be highly upset if I gave birth to a son who thinks women like his mother are less than.
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@ Jeri I agree with you about Toni Braxton and the whole hair situation.
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leaveumthinking
I know. It is hard to be a black woman because we are constantly being attackted. We are told we are not pretty, not nice, not good enough. It hurts me also. But I thank God that He gives me peace despite it all. The best way I think one can deal with it is by ignoring those comments, try not to let it get to you. Or the anger and pain will only get worse. Forgiveness is important. So is prayer. I pray to The Lord Jesus Christ about my pain and He helps. Do the same. You will feel better.
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@jeri Thank you for your kind words:)
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Leaveumthinking
No problem. And yes it would hurt me if my sons thought badly about black women. It would hurt me alot. But I hope that if I lead by example they would learn to respect not only me but other black women.
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Fascinating issue. I love this blog, man!
I had a discussion about this very thing on another site. That even though most wealthy black men are not married with white women(even though they could be), it is very rare that a black man that is wealthy and/or famous is married to a woman darker or as dark as himself. Barack Obama is the only exception that comes to mind, and that actually makes me respect him even more.
So we can conclude that black men do not prefer white women as many would have us believe, but black men prefer light-skinned black women. You would think that given how much white beauty is reinforced in the media that most black men would want a white woman, but they don’t, even though every black man I know has bedded at least a few white women in his time. They still prefer black women, but black women with a lighter complexion than themselves.
As for your conundrum of why most of your fellow black males are with normal or dark complexioned black women, well, it’s simply a matter of choice. Maybe 20% of African-Americans might be considered “light skinned.” Maybe even less than that(of course it depends on what part of the country too, it varies widely). So naturally, most blacks will end up with a black person of average chocolate complexion. Some black men with wealth, prestige, fame or who simply have A-game will have a lot more choice in partners over normal men. So they get to pick the ones at the top of the ladder of female desirability. For black women, that would be the Mylessa Fords and Tyra Banks.
I don’t entirely know the reason for this. You can see the same exact phenomena in other countries: China, Thailand, Phillipines, ALL of Latin America, India, probably the Arab world too. The men all prefer light skinned women. I don’t know if this is the case in Africa, but I’m very curious if African men prefer light skinned women as well. It’s either a legacy issue of colonialism or perhaps there’s some inborn reason, such as men subconsciously associating light skin with youth and health in women, the way we subconsciously associate a low hip to waist ration with these same properties.
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@SW6
Yeah, I have been thinking about this subject of marriage and black people for awhile now. I am happily married so marriage is not a problem for me but I am concerned for black people. I think there are so many issues that cause blacks not to marry. I mean think about the subject we are discussing concerning black men and who they date. Half the people who commented are determined to believe that black men only want lighter women. Many black women strongly believe that they are not wanted by black men. This belief is bond to cause tension between black men and women. Many black women probably don’t trust black men because all their lives they were told that black men prefer lighter women. This mistrust may cause some women to act cautious with black men. Black men may mistake this caution for having an “attitude”. I personally don’t think that all black men are obsessed with light women. Some are and some aren’t. I do believe that there are black men AND women who date lighter people because of self hatred but you can’t say that applies to everyone. I mean Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson, Snoop Dog, just to name of few are married to brown skinned black women. Maybe the problem is that there is a huge minority of black men who are infatuated with light skin and straight hair. You know, not 90 percent but maybe 40 percent, something like that. I mean we will never know unless we did a survey like the census or something, but the problem maybe severe just not as severe as some people think it is. Well, less say it is 40 percent. Okay, that is not the majority but that is still a large number of men. Enough to cause problems for black women. By the way, 40 percent of black women and men have never been married. So I am not saying that is true. I am just it maybe a problem.Then again colorism may not be the problem at all. Like you said, the economy may have alot to do with it. Many black men are having problems finding work. I mean, we don’t live during a time when it is easy to find a good factory job at a Ford or Chrysler. Men my fathers age married quite young and quite often. Back then it was easy to find a good paying job that doesn’t require a college education. My father was a city bus driver and he made good money. Maybe, the hard economic times is making it so that men don’t want to marry. Maybe they feel they can’t take care of themselves less alone a wife and children. And we must be honest, many women don’t want to marry someone who can’t help pay the bills. As for colorism again, I can’t really say if black men have the problem we think they do. It seems that way to black women but someone mentioned earlier some of this belief could come from these women’s insecurities. My mother is an extremely beautiful dark skinned black women and she NEVER had a problem getting a man. She had many,many men asking her for dates. I can’t say. Everybody has their own unique experiences so it is not fair for us to accuse one another of overreacting to the colorism issue the way that some of the people have done on this post. But I will say that colorism is a problem, I just don’t HOW big a problem it is.
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SHUT UP AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT BLACK MEN THIS BLACK WOMEN THAT WHITE WOMEN THAT> YOU AMERICANS ALWAYS HAVING ISSUES WITH EVERYTHING> BTW I”M A BLACK WOMAN< AND I FIND ALL THIS TO BE PATHETIC AND PITIFUL
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In my personal experience with black men as a chocolate skinned woman its light-skinned black men who chase me down while the dark-skinned black men are almost invariably interested in light-skinned women. I don’t know what that’s about, but I’ve only had one dark skinned boyfriend in my life. Currently I am married to a white man.
As for the famous folks, there seem to be few chocolate skinned famous black women. That might have something to do with the list. I could be wrong, but it seems as if caramel or lighter skin is the rule for most actresses, singers and models. I will say that I was surprised that there weren’t more white women in the dating mix.
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BTW, anyone between the color of a paper bag and a hershey bar is of medium skin tone, generally speaking. If you’re hershey bar color or darker you are brown or dark-skinned.
If you are lighter than a paper bag, you are light-skinned. Whoever said Toni Braxton was dark, she isn’t. She’s medium toned. Most AA would not consider her to be dark at all.
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Hey. I’m pretty sure TI did not date Deebo.
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“If you are lighter than a paper bag, you are light-skinned. Whoever said Toni Braxton was dark, she isn’t. She’s medium toned. Most AA would not consider her to be dark at all.”
Poetess: Thank you regarding Toni Braxton. That is what I was trying to explain to “mynamismyname” back in 2008. They just wanted to go back and forth and on and on about how Toni is dark-skinned….
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The people at Essence or Black Men magazine would see nothing strange in this: black men prefer light-skinned women. It seems to be an article of faith with some black women.
Abagond, i am really starting to believe that most celebrity pairings are done deliberatly and in a calculating way. There is no way–with the exception of a few–that you can convince me that these people are together because of compatibility, trust, or anything else that makes for a wholesome union. I think most Hollywood films and reality shows are scripts and sagas that never end and the actors themselves do not separate out fantasy from reality. They are like seamless creatures to me–if that makes since.
The black men who i have known have never had a said preference for light or dark skinned black women. They tend to marry black women based on compatibility no matter her skin tone.
Also, i noticed that black men will continue to pursue the same type of black woman over and over again. For instance, my husband was married twice before me and each of them bare a striking resemblance to me. Brown, slim, natural hair and wears glasses. This is the same with my brother. He gravitates towards the same kind of black woman–short, slightly stocky, straight hair, medium to deep skin. Although he is strikingly different as he his tall, slim and fair skinned. He and his girls look like coffee and cream when they are together.
So yeah, i think everyday black men go for black women who are kind, generous, compassionate and wholesome. A black woman’s skin tone seems to take the back seat when it comes to romance.
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Society often dictates what should be desired and what should not. Couple that with personal experience and out of this choices are made.
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