Ebonics (by 1692), or Black American English, started in the 1600s. The first recorded instance of it is in the Salem Witch Trials in 1692 when Tituba says:
“He tell me he God.”
Many think of Black English as an imperfect copy of White English. Even some scholars argue that. But that overlooks two facts:
- Black English has features that are seen in no form of White English, but which you do see in Caribbean and African forms of English. You just saw an example of that: the lack of “is” in “He tell me he God”.
- Blacks learn English mainly from blacks, not from whites. This became even more true after the slaves were freed, but somewhat less true with the rise of public education and television.
If you came from Africa to America as a slave, no white person took you aside to teach you English. You picked it up mainly from other slaves: in the slave forts of Africa, in the Caribbean, where many slaves were taken first, and in the fields of America. Blacks did not mix with whites enough to copy their English mainly from them.
The first form of English that was used between blacks and whites was a makeshift form of English called pidgin English. It used mostly English words but set to more of an African grammar. It was a simple language, one you would use to give orders or to buy and sell, but not one you could use all the time.
But for those born over the seas from Africa it was pretty much the only language they knew. They made it into a full language called Creole English, an English you could use all the time, that could express any thought. This is called creolization. You can still hear Creole English on the street in the West Indies.
Black American English started out that way and you can see signs of that, especially in its use of verbs. But, unlike the West Indies, most people in America are white, and so over time Black English has become less like Creole English and more like Standard English.
The English of both blacks and whites in America has been getting closer to Standard English over time, the kind of English you see in books or hear on CNN. That has come about mainly through the spread of public education. It started sooner with whites.
While Black English does preserve words from Africa (like okay, jazz and banana) and even some of the grammar, it also preserves some of how most white people used to talk (like the use of “ain’t”, dropped g’s in -ing and double negatives). But for the most part it has been shaped by creolization.
Not all scholars agree with that. Africanists say it has been shaped more by African languages, while Anglicists, like John McWhorter, say it has been shaped more by the sorts of British English you heard in the American South 300 years ago.
– Abagond, 2008.
See also:
Abagond 
The problem as I see it, is the degree to which it is stigmatized by whites and blacks of a certain class. “ebonics” fulfills its purpose. Blacks communicate effectively with it and it is functional within the communities it is utilized in. The main purpose of language is communication and ebonics does just that. I believe that we have an issue with it because it is associated with blackness and western society has a tendency to regard black cultural identifiers as less than unless it can find a way to commodify it and make a profit.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I agree: If something is “too black” whites and even upscale blacks will look down on it like there is something wrong with it.
Jazz music started out that way: it was “too black”. It broke the rules of white music. Even middle-class blacks looked down on it. But now it is utterly respectable. But it did not become that way till fashionable white people started liking it – and, like you said, started making money off of it.
The same with Ebonics: just because white people and some blacks look down it, that does not mean there is something wrong with it. Ebonics has at least as much beauty and power of expression as Standard English.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Regional and/or ethnic American English has many grammatical variants. Generally, they are vestigial remnants of grammatical structures brought by immigrant speakers, or of creolization as Agabond describes.
In Mississippi, one often hears this structure: “He may can go there.” In Minnesota, they use “borrow” as a synonym for “loan,” as in: “Can you borrow me ten dollars for lunch?” Here is another common Minnesotan structure: “Would you like to come with?” (probably from the German “Kommen sie mit?”). One hears John McEnroe use a structure common to Yddish English, where the subject of a sentence is inserted at the end, as in: “She has the best service motion in women’s tennis, Serena.” In Appalachia, there is a distint meaning to “Y’all” and a separate meaning to “All y’all.” Or the “Over yonder.” As in, “He’s gone up yonder, I reckon.” In Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, they omit the connector of a directed object: “Let’s go camp” (instead of “Let’s go to camp.”). Etc. I love these regional and ethnic variances. It adds to the richness of our nation’s life.
As to the root of Ebonics, I’m no linguist, but I have read McWhorter’s book and he does make a compelling argument for his thesis. Among other things, since he is a scholar of western African languages, he illustrates how the grammar of those languages differs markedly from the grammar of Ebonics in many fundamental respects, and he shows parallels between Ebonics grammar and that of the Irish. He notes also that Irish worked as indentured servants in southern plantations at the same time African slaves worked in those same plantations, providing a plausible vector for a creolization from this interaction.
In the same book, McWhorter discusses the phenomenon of teachers suggesting that Ebonics is “bad” or “wrong” English. Of course it is neither. It is not Standard English, but that doesn’t make it a lesser form of English. Certainly, there is an element of racism in the manner in which some, perhaps many white teachers have, over the years, accused black students of being substandard by speaking in Ebonics.
At the same time, it is well established that speaking any dialect at home, be it Ebonics or Yddish or whatever, is not an impediment to learning Standard English in the school. To the contrary, speaking a different dialect at home, and thus having to code switch at school, probably makes it easier for a young person to learn Standard English. The process of code switching stimulates the language centers of a developing brain, making it easier for the brain to learn multiple languages. This is borne out in most of the rest of the world, where children and adults routinely speak more than one language. In Soweto, for example, most children will speak, with ease, Tswana, Swahili, Zulu, Afrikaans and English.
LikeLike
Then there is also that new creole being created by the Republican party:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/your-pocket-guide-to-spea_b_123606.html
LikeLike
That is a good piece by John Ridley that you linked to, showing the double standards applied Obama as compared to Palin.
LikeLike
It is interesting how English is the same-yet-different even within America.
LikeLike
LikeLike
Reguarding the whole Negro dialect thing let’s clear up the meaning of dialect.
a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by a group of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.
—————————————————————-
I hate that people look down on people who speak this dialect and make assumptions that they are unintelligenr becasue they do not speak the king/queen english because most of it is slang. Seriously who even speaks the queens english without any hint of slang.
I mean look at the UK example many different regional dialects and accent spoken there with slang thrown in. Even in the same North London have an entirely differnt slang then the people from South London. Same with East and West and of course you have the standard or ‘normal’ english.
Now take London cockney rhyming slang in someone who spoke that got dropped in the US I doubt they would be thought as a unintelligent, because of the english accent.
LikeLike
Ebonics started because blacks were not educated and they started teaching each other Ebonics. Therefore it is not the correct way to speak. It is very unprofessional. I think its funny that they have the freedom and equal rights now to learn the correct way to speak and I’m sure they do know how to but they still speak that way. Martin Luther King would be disappointed. I’m not saying all blacks. Just most and thats sad. What’s worse is when a white person does it. Makes me want to puke! It wasn’t bad to speak when it all started because they didn’t know any better but now you have the education. USE IT!!!!!!
LikeLike
“hello stupids,” please don’t drink the kool aid
LikeLike
eh…I dont like kool aid. I hear black people do though! haha!
LikeLike
In regards to the person that is calling everyone stupid, there is no need for that at all. Your stupid for even calling people stupid. There’s a lot of people that do not know the history of Ebonics and there’s nothing wrong with that.As for the African’s it wasn’t there fault that they couldn’t speak the Standard English. If the White people helped maybe there wouldn’t be Eboincs. All languages were made up and at least Africans had the smarts to actually make up a language that you will probably never understand.
LikeLike
I think it’s irrelevant whether a dialect developed because of a lack of education. While I do believe that it is important to have a linguistic common ground and that we should all learn Standard English, language is a living and fluid thing. Even modern day Italian–now considered one of the most beautiful languages in the world–was street language spoken by commoners in a time when Latin was the standard. Also, in any discussion about education or the lack thereof, you have to question who is doing the educating. Who is setting the standard, and what gave them the right to set it?
LikeLike
Meh, it’s a dialect but that’s it. It’s nothing special and would never teach my kid to speak that way. It’s sounds ugly to me. It’s just slang. A person that speaks ebonics is a turn off. But people have the right to speak it. I don’t feel any connection to it, so this is from a different perscetive. It would stupid to teach it in school. For what ? To me, ebonics is just lazy english.
LikeLike
man, this blog goes on forever.
Anyway I’ve noticed that when I talk with black people who I have heard using heavy “ebonics” with other blacks, They often will tone it down with me and speak a bit more “white” And I also do the same in reverse so we reach a kind of middle ground. It’s totally subconscious I think. Even though I notice it I can’t really seem to control it and I suspect it’s the same with them. This doesn’t happen when there is more than one BP around though.
LikeLike
Here in the South, people say things like:
“I axed him to go to the libary wif me.”
LikeLike
They often will tone it down with me and speak a bit more “white” And I also do the same in reverse so we reach a kind of middle ground. It’s totally subconscious I think.They often will tone it down with me and speak a bit more “white” And I also do the same in reverse so we reach a kind of middle ground. It’s totally subconscious I think.
I believe it’s subconscious also. I once read a study on how people will mimic those with accents in order to better understand what they are saying.
Yeah I found it…
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101206161826.htm
Anyways I do the same. My main language is standard English, which I always speak with White people and in professional environments. Among Black people who speak Ebonics I will automatically switch my speech towards theirs. I don’t do it on purpose tho.
I see my Jamaican family do it all the time also. As soon as they get around someone who is from the island their voice switches up like it’s nothin.
I don’t think Ebonics is “bad”, but I do not believe it is useful for school or work. We Americans need a common language, so we can understand each other no matter where we come from.
LikeLike
Oh yea, I also want to point out that I believe there is a difference between “talking white” and speaking proper English. I have noticed that a lot of white people from various parts of the country will over-emphasize every word, letter, and syllable of what they say. i don’t do that. All I do is use proper grammar with a FEW slang words here and there
LikeLike
“Oh yea, I also want to point out that I believe there is a difference between “talking white” and speaking proper English.”
What is this accent that people talk about ? Is then really a black accent ? I thought it was just an insult towards blacks ? Still sounds weird to me. I don’t see any connection to ebonics with Blacks. It’s that just being ghetto.
LikeLike
@Usagi
Throughout most of the United State’s history their has been segregation between blacks and whites(official & unofficial), so it is not surprising that you see different dialects that vary depending on race and region.
In my life experience I have noticed a difference between the way white and black Americans speak in my home state of Georgia. Some people may think it is insulting, but I see nothing wrong with communicating with another human being outside of standard English in an unprofessional setting.
“I don’t see any connection to ebonics with Blacks. It’s that just being ghetto.”
I wouldn’t say every typically Black accent(Ebonics is not uniform. It depends on region) is ghetto. It’s a bit hard for me to explain to you, but I don’t hear many white folks who sound like Steve Harvey. I also wouldn’t call Steve Harvey’s particular dialect as “ghetto.”
LikeLike
What’s amusing to me is that what white people consider ‘ebonics’, used to be correct, ‘standard’ English for them!
“Royal always gets more food – he’s bigger than I be!”
Quote from the book Farmer Boy by Laura Ingalls Wilder, detailing the childhood of her husband, Almanzo, who lived on a farm in New York state.
So, saying “I be” this or “he be” that used to be quite common for caucasoids – nobody labeled that speech ‘ghetto’ back then! 🙄
Labeling something ‘ghetto’ is archaic, IMHO 😎
LikeLike
Yeah, I don’t think it’s fair to characterize proper english as “white” either. I mean, I think it’s confusing for people because when POC talk to whites they often switch to standard english. So naturally people are going to call that “talking white” because it’s associated with whites in that way.
But the last thing you want to do is have POC kids feeling that they shouldn’t speak proper english because it belongs to white people or something. It seems like many do feel that way and I think it’s probably going to hold them back in life.
Also I think it’s worth noting for any WP reading this that just because a person is black doesn’t mean they are going to speak Ebonics. I’ve met BP who speak (and type) way better english than me or any of my white friends. The fact that that still surprises me when it happens is proof that I still have some racism to work on.
LikeLike
good point sepultura. I never thought of it like that. That’s more evidence we would probably be better not acting like we have our own separate color coded dialects. Since we really don’t.
“Royal always gets more food – he’s bigger than I be!””
in Ohio “Ebonics” that would have been…
“Royal always get more food, he be bigger than me.” or “he bigger than me”
LikeLike
I really hope all of us don’t fall for yet another “okey doke”. Ebonics is important to us, it’s a part of our culture.
Don’t speak it at the office but when we are amongst ourselves or out of the office is very important that we can communicate with each other without others knowing what we are disscussing.
On this point I agree with charles menlick.
LikeLike
Usagi It’s nothing special and would never teach my kid to speak that way.
It’s not something you teach your kids, it’s something they learn from those around them.
A person that speaks Ebonics is a turn off
Are there any other languages or dialects that are a turn off to you?
Jasonburns Anyway I’ve noticed that when I talk with black people who I have heard using heavy “ebonics” with other blacks, They often will tone it down with me and speak a bit more “white”
This is called code switching.
LikeLike
“very important that we can communicate with each other without others knowing what we are discussing.”
haha, you really think WP can’t understand you?
LikeLike
too everyone….
If you think that not speaking ebonics will somehow make you more acceptable to the “mainstream”, your wrong. They’ve always found a reason to hold us back. but keep falling for the koolaid if you will.
Eventually you’ll look like the Wanons brothers in White Chick and without anything to show for it.
—————–
@Usagi,
you seem to disdain anything that’s too blk or African-American. Why is that?
I’m not attacking you by the way, just asking so we can work through it if you will.
LikeLike
@chicnoir
yeah, i know but when I say tone it down I mean something that isn’t quite code switching. It’s not a total switch, maybe some people change their speech drastically I don’t know. But what I notice is more subtle usually. I think it might be a response to whites also trying to use some “ebonics”(Am I the only one who is weirded out by that word)? It would be cool if we could reach a middle ground and I do that happening more and more. It could be a regional thing.
LikeLike
jasonburns haha, you really think WP can’t understand you?
Well I’ve certainly been around some people who speak Ebonics and mix it in with regional slang and I don’t have an idea what they’re talking about so yes… I say upper east side Biff and Muffy would not understand da’shaun and lil mike from Mississippi when they speak a mixture of local slang and Ebonics.
LikeLike
@ chic noir.
OK that’s probably true but it won’t be like that for long. and Biff and Muffy are the minority (nice white names BTW) 😉
LikeLike
*chic noir climbs on stage and goes to work*
To be quite frank, I don’t understand why people are bothered when they hear people speaking Ebonics anyway. What does it have to do with you??? Everyday on any corner of this city I can hear different people speaking 5 or more foreign languages. Why is it of all the languages and dialects spokes in this country… less than a handful of them are under attack??? That’s Ebonics, Gullah(not Ebonics) and Spanish that are under constant attack.
*chic noir grabs tea and throat goes dry cause she on a roll*
It’s like anything else we do… gets tagged as low class but as soon as someone else does it ,it gets tagged as innovative, hip or edgy. As an example see Japanese women and acrylic nails with designs & African-American /Blk American women wearing fake nails with intricate designs.
*kwamella feels what chic noir is saying and gets a round of the holly ghost*
*chic noir gives microphone to MC abagond and struts over to seat*
LikeLike
(nice white names BTW)
they are names for the upper class. I used those names for class as much as race distinction. BTW, there is a blk singer by the name of muffy.
names according to class.
lower class:
becky & skeeter
middle class names:
madison & Brian
upper class names:
muffy & biff
LikeLike
@ chicnoir
lol at skeeter. Rebecca isn’t lower class.
Did you know that names are not static when it comes to class? They tend to go in cycles. Something that is popular with the upperclass will usually trickle down and once lower class people start using it upper class people will stop. At least with whites it’s that way.
LikeLike
I see Ebonics as another form of American speak, or a unique mode of speech for people of African descent. It is no worse than the standard English used today, nor is it worse than the Southern forms, Californian, Northern, etc. forms of English.
I think it goes back to the notion that blacks are less intelligent than whites. To hear a black person use Ebonics around some whites and blacks will make them seem more ignorant or less intelligent than those outside. They will attribute that to their supposed natural low intelligence especially if they hear them say “know what I’m sayin?” a lot.
On the other hand, those who are nonblack may see it as a “trend”, something that’s cool along with the “coolness” stereotypes of blacks seen mostly on Television. To some they may seem more ridiculous than the black people who speak in Ebonics regularly.
However, sometimes blacks who do not use Black English or do not have a certain tone with their speak are often seen by their peers as “acting white”.
LikeLike
blaque Ink However, sometimes blacks who do not use Black English or do not have a certain tone with their speak are often seen by their peers as “acting white
See or hear Condalizza Rice.
LikeLike
jason burnes Did you know that names are not static when it comes to class?
why yes I did Jason
*chic noir smiles sweetly at jason*
and they same thing happens with any trend. People move on after to many of “those types” adopt it.
Ok if you think “becky” isn’t low class how about “mary-joe”
Barron is an upperclass that I like.
LikeLike
@ chic
I didn’t mean to be condescending. it’s just that names like biff haven’t been used widely by upper class whites for decades.
LikeLike
The dominant language of commerce in the world right now is American English. Anyone who cannot or does not speak it fluently is at a significant disadvantage.
I can’t understand how some would consider it a point of pride to speak Ebonics instead of American English (rather than “in addition to”). These people are basically consigning themselves to the economic underclass.
Can someone explain the rationale behind this?
LikeLike
Jas0nburns- I worked with two Biffs.
Chip and esp Doug as still popular btw. Althought I think Chip and Doug are more WASP than upper class per say.
I didn’t mean to be condescending.
we still cool.
*just noir toasts Jas0nburns’s wine cooler*
LikeLike
Randy Garver rather than “in addition to”
Well I’m for “in addition to” not “instead of”. I don’t want African-Americans to fall for another round of the “okeydoke”.
Randy Garver Can someone explain the rationale behind this?
Very few African-Americans are unable to be speak standard English. The issue is many of whom choose to speak “only” Ebonics have come to the conclusion and (maybe rightfully depending upon who you ask) that they will always be a apart of the economic underclass.
LikeLike
“you seem to disdain anything that’s too blk or African-American. Why is that?
I’m not attacking you by the way, just asking so we can work through it if you will.”
I do like certain black cultures, but I, myself, don’t have the accent the others say that blacks talk. Alot of people say i have engrish accent sometimes. I mean there’s millons of beautiful real African languages that you can way. Ebonics is just stupid to me. I want to learn Somaili. It’s slang. It’s cool, if that’s you’re thing. Every language has slang. I don’t see why it’s important. I don’t find “African” american culture intereseting. I can’t stand R&B/neo-soul music, rap is okay, thinks Kwannza is one of the dumbest,racist holidays (juneteenth day is wayy more awesome), soul food is meh, thinks black women should were their hair any damn we want, thinks most “black” movie are horrible ( does every movie able blacks have to be about how sucky our lives are) daiishikis are ugly ( guntiinos rock), dark skin and long hair is the prettiest. I can’t relate to certain things. Like the good hair crap. What’s wrong with kinky hair ?
LikeLike
“Are there any other languages or dialects that are a turn off to you? ”
New Jersy accents. I can’t watch Jersey Shore because I hate the way they talk. I have a hard time understanding anyone with a strong Southern accent.
Edit:
thinks black women should were their hair any damn way we want, thinks most “black” movies are horrible ( does every movie about blacks have to be about how sucky our lives are)
LikeLike
It’s a free country. People talk the way they want to talk.
LikeLike
Also Bif, Chip, and Buffy are some the dumbest names to name your kids.
LikeLike
Usagi Also Bif, Chip, and Buffy are some the dumbest names to name your kids.
LOL
most people who give their kids those names sign our checks so they don’t really care what we think.
LikeLike
“soul food is meh”
blasphemy!
LikeLike
MMMMM. Maybe I should name my future son Biff. Was going to be Sora. But I wouldn’t be suprised if someone in my family has that name. They love giving us boring, stuffy names like Dawn,John, Summer, Abmer, Frances and other names of that orgin.
LikeLike
Sora?? Kingdom Hearts??
Or maybe I’m just letting my nerd out too much…
LikeLike
Usagi,
I don’t want any children but if I’m silly enough to change my mind one day, I’ll the kid an very upperclass first name and an oromo middle name. In the home I’ll call my child by his her oromo name or either a very cute nick name.
The first name is a goverment name only.
Usagi “biff” is so boring give him something more regal like Alexander or Barron 🙂
on a role Usagi writes “soul food is meh”
*jasons looks up while shoveling a fork full of Hog maws and chittlings into his mouth to yell*
blasphemy
LikeLike
“jasons looks up while shoveling a fork full of Hog maws and chittlings into his mouth to yell”
nah. I can’t say i’ve ever tried that stuff. I was thinking more collards, ribs, fried chicken and corn bread.
LikeLike
“nah. I can’t say i’ve ever tried that stuff. I was thinking more collards, ribs, fried chicken and corn bread.”
I don’t like collards and cornbread at all. Now cajun food, that’s a different story. My family would it that only on special holidays, like Christmas. Fried chicken is meh. I grew up with rice, catfish, cod, steak, sprimp, penne, squash, goulash with tea almost served with everthing. My favorite food is curry.
LikeLike
Usagi “biff” is so boring give him something more regal like Alexander or Barron
Alexander is already used. It’s my cousin’s middle name.
LikeLike
jas0nburnsnah. I can’t say i’ve ever tried that stuff.
then you are a very smart man. Don’t allow anyone to feed you that stuff. That is a food we carried str8 from the plantation into 2011. It’s horrible. I’ve never eaten though but darn.
I was thinking more collards, ribs, fried chicken and corn bread.
I don’t care for ribs unless they’re from the grill. I hate hate hate collard green, the only vegtable I hate more are mustard greens. I do enjoy corn bread and fried chicken.
Usagi, I thought you were Nigerian
LikeLike
I think we are talking about several different things here.
From my experiences I think talking ‘White’ has more to do with a certain style reflecting a particular choice of words, inflection, tone, sense stress and modulation as well as training oneself to never state the obvious. It’s a kind of wink and nod, passive aggressive, you know what I’m saying (without actually saying it) style and it is heavily used or personified in the corporate world. Here is a great book on this if anyone is interested: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo6206915.html
Even if Blacks get the inflection, tone, sense stress, etc… down, many of us still struggle with sounding ‘White’ because as a culture we tend to speak directly and tell it like it is, which is perceived as threatening, defensive, abrasive and aggressive to Whites.
Accents are just accents but it is important to have the ability to sound region-less if you need to in order to appeal to a wide audience. News anchors can be very good at this.
Now, the type of Black lingo I find particularly attractive is the kind you hear by Jay – Z, Notorious B.I.G and Mobb Deep where a lot of metaphors and imagery are used. True artistry.
Now for Ebonics. I’m not sold on the value, especially since many young Blacks who speak it can only speak it and nothing else. I hate it particularly when it comes to misspelling words (i.e. phat). I remember a Spanish teacher once told me that it is impossible to teach Spanish from an English textbook to someone who can’t speak English properly because the book teaches Spanish though rules of proper grammar. I always remembered that. Are other things taught through rules of grammar? What about college textbooks? How about a Calculus or Physics book? No ebonics there.
I also believe language enables thinking ability, particularly when it comes to assigning degrees to things. For example: does perturbed, irritated, angry and livid have corresponding words in ebonics? How about happy, contented, elated and euphoric? Nope. Not really. Being able at a minimum to classify your feelings is important to organizing your thoughts and deciding on corresponding actions. I’m not saying the Ebonics of today should be abolished, but it’s a kind of linguistic junk food that should be marginalized. What’s wrong with encouraging Black children to learn the standard way of doing something and not serving up easy reasons to be disqualified?
LikeLike
“Usagi, I thought you were Nigerian”
LOL. People tend to think I’m some kind of foriegner. I’m American of East/North African, Native American, and Scott-Irish descent. I’m too lazy to type excalty what origins they come and am not complety sure. My family moved around alot. I’m prett damn sure my mum’s side is secretly part Asian. Which would explain why I look like an anime character.
LikeLike
@Lookingforanswers
“I’m not sold on the value, especially since many young Blacks who speak it can only speak it and nothing else.”
I disagree with this. Most Blacks in this country are bilingual. The problem is that some people don’t know when to code switch. School seems to be the main place where some folks can’t switch off their native tongue off.
I think the value comes from the cultural heritage. Their are people from the upper classes in Jamaica who HATE patois, but just imagine how “less Jamaican” the country would be without its creole! Language has strong affect on culture and identity.
Black English is already marginalized in the public school system, workforce, politics, and other public arenas(as it should be). I just don’t understand why people get mad when two people use it to communicate on the street.
I doubt Ebonics is as evil as some make it out to be. However, we will all continue to have our own opinions on the issue.
LikeLike
@ The Cynic
“I disagree with this. Most Blacks in this country are bilingual. The problem is that some people don’t know when to code switch”
I don’t think this is true. Testing scores, particularly English scores, do not reflect this. The problem here is also that people tend to think the way they generally speak. Current day Ebonics is not embellished enough to enrich the thought process, so it limits thinking ability. Patois is different. It is very much embellished. So much so that not only are there corresponding standard English words but there are words in patois where there is no corresponding English word or where several English words would be needed to describe some words in patois.
I understand as Blacks we try hard to find value in everything we call our own because we tend to think we don’t have much to begin with but I think this is a mistake. The value in the Ebonics of today is very limited compared to the disadvantages it creates. There are many instances, past and present where we have contributed tremendously to enriching society but society ignores them or rewrites history to say it was others who contributed it. I think this is where the focus and pride should be, discussing our true contributions, not in looking for value in things with limited value.
LikeLike
“It’s a kind of wink and nod, passive aggressive, you know what I’m saying (without actually saying it) style and it is heavily used or personified in the corporate world.”
yeah, we must be talking about separate things. While that may be something that white people do culturally more than blacks it isn’t what’s generally meant by talking white. Passive aggressive behavior is more of an upper class white thing. You won’t find a lot of passive aggressive types in the trailer parks.
And TBH, learning to control your emotions is essential if you want to get anywhere in life. I used to be more directly confrontational at work and all that happens no matter how justified you are is that people will view you as a problem employee. So you have to suck it up.
LikeLike
@Lookingforanswers
That’s an interesting point, but I wouldn’t call Ebonics part of MY heritage. My parents aren’t from this country and I don’t speak it on a regular basis.
LikeLike
Oh and Ebonics is more like a dialect, not a language(I believe I called it a language earlier). It doesn’t need corresponding English words bc it already uses English words(which are often mispronounced).
I don’t think it’s that different than Patois. Neither of them are used in any school systems nor do they have a set grammatical pattern.
Here is a blog about the introduction of a Patois bible on a Jamaican online newspaper. You can see for yourself why many ppl there don’t even like the idea.
http://gleanerblogs.com/iconsumer/?p=249
LikeLike
Yeah, and it often takes English words and combines them or uses them in new and interesting ways IMO. Especially with hip-hop artists always trying to be creative with the language and create double meanings.
I just bought this book for my son who is way into hip-hop
it’s hilarious.
http://www.amazon.com/Understand-Rap-Explanations-Confusing-Grandma/dp/0810989212/
LikeLike
“Even if Blacks get the inflection, tone, sense stress, etc… down, many of us still struggle with sounding ‘White’ because as a culture we tend to speak directly and tell it like it is, which is perceived as threatening, defensive, abrasive and aggressive to Whites.”
Co-sign. Doesn’t matter if one is talking about the weather, music, a TV show, or how cute and fluffy baby bunnies are – some people will still accuse BP of being hostile, abrasive and defensive.
Perspectives and perceptions are relative.
LikeLike
“Even if Blacks get the inflection, tone, sense stress, etc… down, many of us still struggle with sounding ‘White’ because as a culture we tend to speak directly and tell it like it is, which is perceived as threatening, defensive, abrasive and aggressive to Whites.”
Co-sign. Doesn’t matter if one is talking about the weather, music, a TV show, or how cute and fluffy baby bunnies are – some people will still accuse BP of being hostile, abrasive and defensive.
Perspectives and perceptions are relative.”
I disagree. I can’t see the difference. I guess. What about hillbillies ?
LikeLike
@ jas0nburns
“Passive aggressive behavior is more of an upper class white thing.”
80% of my exposure to Whites is with middle and upper-middle class Whites so it must apply to them too.
“ You won’t find a lot of passive aggressive types in the trailer parks.”
Ok I can believe that but when people talk about sounding White and attempt to use proper English when doing so, in their minds they are not attempting to imitate trailer park Whites are they?
“And TBH, learning to control your emotions is essential if you want to get anywhere in life. I used to be more directly confrontational at work and all that happens no matter how justified you are is that people will view you as a problem employee. So you have to suck it up.”
Don’t take this personally jas0nburns because you sound like a cool enough White guy with an open mind but this comment illustrates perfectly what I’m trying to say. I mentioned speaking “directly and tell it like it is” but I did not speak of being confrontational. You though added it to your phrase because as a White person that’s how you likely interpret being direct and telling it like it is. As Blacks we don’t assume that simply for talking directly.
For example, as a Black person, if I said “Your brief has lots of citations that are incorrect. Please review and revise. We can’t afford to have mistakes”, a White person would likely get all bent out of shape and consider the comment to be abrasive or confrontational because they don’t like to be spoken to directly especially about their own shortcomings. What they would prefer to hear is something like “Would you mind taking another look at the citations in the brief? I took a quick look and was unsure about how a few of them supported the argument. Can you just give it another look over, just to be sure? I would hate for us to misspeak” (Now, before you conclude that one statement is more polite than the other, say both in your head with the same tone, inflection, modulation and what you will find is that the only real difference is that one is straight forward and the other beats around the bush). This is what Black people spend their whole day doing at work when around Whites, contorting themselves to say things in ways Whites like to hear it. It’s almost impossible to keep up 24/7 and Whites couldn’t do it in reverse (or talk directly) all day if they tried. But they don’t have to do they?
You also mentioned “learning to control your emotions.” This sounds to me that you are assuming that Blacks talk directly and tell it like it is because we can’t control our emotions. That’s simply not true. Again, its just part of our culture to be direct.
Think about it. If I said “Whites can’t tell you to your face how they really feel because they are too afraid and can’t control that emotion of fear” What would you say? Of course it would be silly because that’s not why Whites don’t speak directly. As I said before, it’s simply part of the White culture to not state the obvious and has nothing to do with a lack of control over their emotions.
LikeLike
“Whites can’t tell you to your face how they really feel because they are too afraid and can’t control that emotion of fear” What would you say? Of course it would be silly because that’s not why Whites don’t speak directly. As I said before, it’s simply part of the White culture to not state the obvious and has nothing to do with a lack of control over their emotions. ”
Mmmmmm. Alot of the blacks I grew up around are like that. How do explain Steve Wilkos, Nancy Grace and Dr. Phil ? Those white don’t seem to have any problem stating the obvious.
“And TBH, learning to control your emotions is essential if you want to get anywhere in life. I used to be more directly confrontational at work and all that happens no matter how justified you are is that people will view you as a problem employee. So you have to suck it up.”
Co-signed
“For example, as a Black person, if I said “Your brief has lots of citations that are incorrect. Please review and revise. We can’t afford to have mistakes”, a White person would likely get all bent out of shape and consider the comment to be abrasive or confrontational because they don’t like to be spoken to directly especially about their own shortcomings. What they would prefer to hear is something like “Would you mind taking another look at the citations in the brief? I took a quick look and was unsure about how a few of them supported the argument. ”
Really, the first way is kinda rude. I would prefer being told the other way. Some people are more sensitive than others.
LikeLike
LFA,
Whew! What a different view than mine.
As someone who spent a long career in the military where prejudice, discrimination and all that “beating around the bush” crap is almost non-existant, I can say my observation since finishing my career is that the racial roles you describe is almost completely the reverse. I’ve noticed you really have to watch the way you speak to blacks, if you’re white.
Depending on the circumstances, we should be able to present our views the way we want to those that work under us. Spend a few years in the military and I guarantee you won’t see too many mealy mouths. Be they black, white, pink, or purple.
LikeLike
“How do explain Steve Wilkos, Nancy Grace and Dr. Phil ? Those white don’t seem to have any problem stating the obvious.”
That’s in part why they are popular. It’s because they are somewhat of an anomaly to mainstream America. They tell it like it is. This makes them fascinating to watch on TV for some but I would not be surpirsed if they were as PC as ever off camera.
LikeLike
@ essbro
“I’ve noticed you really have to watch the way you speak to blacks, if you’re white.”
Only when it comes to things Blacks perceive as racial.
LikeLike
“That’s in part why they are popular. It’s because they are somewhat of an anomaly to mainstream America. They tell it like it is. This makes them fascinating to watch on TV for some but I would not be surpirsed if they were as PC as ever off camera.”
I don’t know. I can’t really see that much difference between the way whites and blacks talk. What’s a black “accent”? Politeness and not being bother to people is VERY ingrained into my upbringing. Most people say I’m too formal. So, this is over my head,
LikeLike
@Usagi,
Even Senator Harry Reid spoke of this remember? He said Barack Obama does not speak in a Negro Dialect, which was what made him appealing to Whites. He let the truth slip, even if just for a moment.
LikeLike
As a musician, I find Ebonics or “black” english much more musical and rhythmic, which is why it lends itself to rap. For example, compare “What I did?” to “What did I do?” I speak it sometimes even though I’m a 50-something white man (I can feel yall cringing). But it’s fun. I like to speak my limited Spanish too for the same reason.
As for the above thread that black culture tends to be more direct…I recently changed careers and the training class I’m in is split half and half black/white. The way the blacks talk to each other sometimes I’m sure there’s going to be a fight but they just laugh it off. And in my observation, black culture is way LOUDER. Not good or bad, just sheer amplitude.
LikeLike
Dear Abagond,
Should I infer that you believe that Tituba was an enslaved African and not an enslaved Indian?
An appendix to “Tituba, Reluctant Witch of Salem: Devilish Indians and Puritan Fantasies” contains Tituba’s word: “he Tell me he god” (Tituba, Reluctant Witch of Salem: Devilish Indians and Puritan Fantasies), but I believe the book consistently identifies her as an Indian. Could you please cite a source that identifies her words as the first example of Ebonics or African-American English?
Thank you,
Wellington King
LikeLike
@ Wellington King
I do not say what race Tituba is. It has been a matter of dispute for over a hundred years. The picture shows her as black but the trouble with pictures is that you have to show SOMETHING. Showing her as black is a reasonable guess since she spoke in perfect Caribbean Creole English of the time (“tell” instead of “told” and no “was”), which is what Ebonics grew out of. However it is possible she was a Native American who grew up among blacks, which is where my source comes down on this one:
Source: John Russell Rickford;Russell John Rickford. Spoken Soul: The Story of Black English (Kindle Locations 1710-1711). Kindle Edition.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Thank you for the explanation and citation. I enjoyed your writing and the comments.
I believe your quotation comes from Tituba’s testimony on March 2, cf “he Tell me he god, & I must believe him & Serve him Six yeares & he would give me many fine things” (p. 195, “Tituba, Reluctant Witch of Salem: Devilish Indians and Puritan Fantasies,” http://books.google.ca/books?id=N18JNPG6F5wC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=he%20would%20give%20me%20many%20fine%20things&f=false). I’m no expert, but I think “He tell me he God” sounds similar to African-American Vernacular English and the Bajan Creole examples on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajan_Creole). I’ve read as much of her testimony as I could (ie the previous quotation and pp. 190-193). I don’t see anything else in her testimony that seems inconsistent with the colloquial speech of her English contemporaries. Could you possibly provide other examples of her speech that more closely approximate a Caribbean Creole or AAVE than that of an Englishwoman? Without other examples, I don’t find it probable that “He tell me he God” is “the first recorded instance of [Ebonics or Black American English].”
“Spoken Soul” sounds like an interesting book, would you recommend it? What do you think of this review and explanation (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1I5RHP2IQOJ1U/ref=cm_pdp_rev_more?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#RTBK58Q3N0A03)?
Thank you for any answers, explanations, or corrections of my errors.
LikeLike