White American music currently comes in four main forms: rock, country, pop and, I would argue, gangsta rap.
The glory days of White American music were from about the 1940s to the 1990s. Hip hop and especially the Internet is killing off what is left of it among white performers.
White Americans, because of their wealth and numbers, have had a huge effect on world music. But in a sense most of what they listened to in the late 1900s was a British form of black American music. Of the top 20 best-selling albums in America, 15 come from Britain.
To a large degree White American music is watered-down black music. The swing music of the 1940s came from jazz, while rock and pop came from rhythm and blues (R & B) and gangsta rap from hip hop. Some of its top performers, like Bing Crosby, Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin, Madonna and Snoop Dogg, modelled themselves directly on black performers. (Snoop Dogg is black, but his blackness is as studied as the others’, a black in blackface.)
Disco aside, before the 1990s it was rare for whites in America to listen mainly to black music. Which is curious because it was right there at the end of the radio dial the whole time. But whites in Britain did listen to it, enough of them, which is why there have been repeated British invasions. The British would copy black music, change it a bit, and then become huge hits in White America.
In the middle 1960s rock was still a white form of black music, but then in the late 1960s The Who and other bands started to change rock into something very different.
Some things to keep in mind about White American music:
- The melody or tune is far more important than the beat.
- The words do not matter that much.
- Music is largely a private experience. It is something that comes from a machine, like an iPod or a record player, not from churches and dance clubs.
- For the most part it is not meant to make you dance or move your soul. It is more like the wallpaper of your life.
- Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.
Gangsta rap seems to be a form of White American music. Of all the forms of hip hop it is closest to rock and sells the best, mainly to whites. Its videos and words tend to play to the worst stereotypes whites have about blacks, like the old minstrel shows. It is no more a form of black music than were the coon songs of the 1890s.
See also:
Thank you. Pop music is basically watered down Black music for the consumption by mainstream white audiences. They like Black music, but felt it’s too strong for them. Ironically, they like gansta rap because it gives them a glimpse of “the Other” while all the more condemn Blacks for their behavior instead of looking themselves in the mirror.
Abagond, you forgot Elvis Presley, the so-called king of rock and roll who basically papered over all the song hits performed by Black artists for the benefit of young white audience who want something new and exciting in the fifties and early sixties. The original Black artists didn’t get one cent from their song hits while he went on to become a big star.
Stephanie B.
LikeLike
My father thought Elvis would never amount to much – he had heard all those songs before. But he forgot that Elvis was white, that it is about more than just the music.
LikeLike
wait…so you’re just a psychotic racist? Is that it?
LikeLike
What, because I said rock came from black music? That is no secret.
LikeLike
The funny thing about Elvis: I never liked him. Well, he had a nice voice, but I could never understand why he’s considered to be THAT great. The kind of rock? No way.
Also, I didn’t really like his songs. Why? Same as Beatles. Many of their songs (not all of them, of course, but many popular ones, especially the early ones) actually sounded pointless. (“words don’t matter much”). “I love you, blah blah blah”.
I would argue that the only deep about rock songs is anger, but yes, anger is important to rock. So is the need to talk about social injustice and raise some important issues. Or it should be.
Maybe I’d like the songs more if I heard the originals or black performers before I heard Elvis’ versions.
Like I said, a post on how rock became white (did it, really?) would be a great one. Thanks for considering that suggestion.
LikeLike
“Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.”
Maybe to you. Well to each it’s own. I love rock music and always thought R&B sounds awful. To me, it’s just singing about love for something with slow boring beats added on. Marilyn Manson, Guns n Roses, Sex Pistols, and All-American tops any crappy baby mama love drama bs that R&B music.
LikeLike
What do you feel bands like The Who made rock into? I’m only curious.
I feel that punk music, particularly hardcore punk rock from the 1980s, is one of the only forms of White American music that isn’t a complete hack-form, stolen from Black people. Yes, it is defined almost entirely by anger, protest, and a social alienation, but it is what I see as a very sincere music that it unbelievably lacking in much of White music.
Do you feel The Who had something to do with this? Why or why not? If not, what do you think they affected and how?
How do you see punk music, pre-mainstream?
LikeLike
I associate “White American music” mainly with Country & Western music. A style I personally find indigestible.
Quite a few countries in this world put “Country & Western” together with the “World music” shelves somewhere in a corner in the record shops.
LikeLike
I’m not a big rock fan at all, but too say that it uniformly “sounds horrible to the untrained ear” & “little real emotion in it” is… a bit much…
I’d argue that Heavy Metal, most electronic music (you could argue that Hip-Hop started it though) are genres that came completely out of white people, even if I don’t like it at all.
I don’t think it’s ever fair to write off an entire genre of music, there definately have been great virtuoso musicians in the genre, Jimmy Page, John Mclauclin, Dave Mustaine, Eric Clapton ect.
I don’t like them much, but I can appreciate their skills.
Most Rock sounds totally wack to me, but I don’t dismiss any merit in it whatsoever.
LikeLike
This might be true for the very beginnings of experimental “noises and tones” made with electronic components. Anyway, if you look at electronic dance music (by far the largest branch of electronic music today) and its history, you’ll find a diverse range of origins.
That’s another thing about US-style media manipulation. It creeps in everywhere, even in artistic fields. Everything needs to be unambiguously colour-coded or the public gets confused. Or is it the industry itself that is confused?
I think electronic dance music has united more artists of more different backgrounds than any other. The black influence is often underrated or downplayed by the US media.
The US have their pioneers like Frankie Knuckles, Jesse Saunders, Kevin Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Derrick May and not least Afrika Bambaataa who is sort of the missing link between electronic dance music and Hip Hop. They came mainly from the declining Disco scene in NYC and Chicago.
On the British scenes you’ve got black and mixed electronic artists like Carl Cox, A.R. Kane, A Guy Called Gerald, Goldie, LTJ Bukem, and the integrated crews like The Prodigy, Massive Attack, Roni Size & Reprazent, Colourbox etc. There are many others who stay more or less unknown to the mainstream.
There are electronic musicians all over the world. Some are adapting and mixing it with their local elements. It can be made by anyone who has access to a computer from later than 2002 or so. And who is creative of course.
LikeLike
Anglo-American music today are mostly rip offs, copies and plagiarised versions and i notice many of them all sound the same using the same riffs, and rythms. top artistses like Beyoncy, Ke$ha, Usher, Lady Gaga, the Black eyed peas etc are all unoriginal rip off artists, and have been sued and accuse of plagiarising and stealing copyrights.
LikeLike
As long as they are getting paid, who cares? Get a job!
LikeLike
people whose copyrights have been stolen care
LikeLike
Oo-kay… I pretty strongly oppose to this blog post, sounds really biased. I’m not a music historian, but…
That being said, I love “black” music. I started hearing it from childhood, loved it all, from Nat King Cole (greatest singer ever, Sinatra eat ur heart out), to Little Richard to Motown (Martha & Wandellas et al), Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, house music, disco, techno, drum&base etc…
“Whites” did not “water down” anything. They incorporated other influences in their music, namely black music, which was a mix of its own. Absolutely black people had a huge impact on western popular music, an influence that was denied and not credited to them back in the 50’s… But you have to understand that what artistic people do is that they fuse new influences to their existing artistic pallette. They don’t “steal” or “water down” anything on purpose, they just create music they like. Plagiarism is another thing, a cover version is another. Too bad that copyright was rather weak those days.
That’s what artists do, they merge new influences to their own stuff. It is called syntheis, artists are always looking for new things by another artists to inspire them and incorporate them to their work. There is no such thing as original art. Everybody is influenced by everybody, and the more interaction, the more fruitful the results.
You make it sound like blacks made good music and whites made it bad. No. It was just different. Lame to some, unforgettable evergreens to another. This coming from a white guy who is not rock or heavy oriented at all. Actually, I pretty much despise heavy metal sans a few individual songs.
Honestly, your post sounds slightly racist. I understand that blacks in the US have suffered greatly, but you are also demining the talent, input and creativity of “white” american musicians. You let american racist history skew your view on the input of individual artistic talent.
Don’t you see? The more mixing of people, ideas, art and technology, the better the results.
I do illustrations and graphic design for living, and there is nothing more inspiring than the works of collegues living or long gone. No artist is an island- and if he is, he is a part of an archipelago.
Sorry, english is not my native tongue, so my choice of words or frases, not to mention grammar or structure, may not be the best possible to express my views in this matter.
LikeLike
A few things wrong with this post.
The words do not matter that much.
That’s incorrect; the words matter just as much, however much of white rock favours a more abstract poetic approach to lyrics, whereas a lot of black music is more direct and more easily understood.
For the most part it is not meant to make you dance or move your soul. It is more like the wallpaper of your life.
That’s extremely subjective. Think about artists like Radiohead, the Beatles, Dylan, etc. For those who are into them, they are extremely moving to one’s soul. But it is true to say that what moves the soul of a fanof white music is different to a fan of black music.
Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
That’s rubbish, although it’s certainly true of some white music. A more apt description would be that white singers do not tend express their feelings vocally as well as black singers do.
Rock sounds terrible to the untrained ear, like the noise a machine might make. You have to listen to it for a while before you can begin to understand it and enjoy it.
That is entirely subject to what you first started listening to. I am a massive soul fan but didn’t get into soul until I was about 20. I grew up on rock, because that’s all I was exposed to. It took me a while before I could appreciate the nuances of a lot of black music; a lot of rock fans never do.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I find the term white american music as defined as rock and gangsta rap odd. I would contend that there is no white american music. Whites may have “watered” it down, but its definitely black music and all through its history, black people have been making the same type of music. I would call country and western music white, however. I don’t know that it has any black influence, but I don’t know much about it.
The only rock that sounds awful to the untrained ear is some of that hardcore punk, in my opinion. I love all other forms of rock including a lot of metal. Also, I have to disagree that the words mean nothing. A lot of the songs mean something very personal to the singer but are often undicepherable to the listener. Like ES says, the lyrics are more poetic and abstract. R&B lyrics are often very straight forward and deal with the same themes.
I grew up listening to rock and R&B and I love them both. As an African American I am always mindful of the history that gave rise to these forms of music and I’m continually amazed at how such deep pain could be transfromed into a thing of beauty.
LikeLike
Abagond, you’re really clutching at straws here.
Have you ever listened to Dark Side of the Moon? Which Chuck Berry song was that ripping off? English rock musicians certainly borrowed basic song structures from Black American artists, but they ripped them apart a thousand times and rebuilt them with additions. The result was as different from the original as a personal computer is from a typewriter.
The words do not matter that much.
It seems almost pointless to give you examples to the contrary, since you had to be aware that there are literally thousands of them. So I’ll just say that arguably the greatest American rock band was The Doors, and you should listen to the Oedipal drama in The End.
Or go listen to a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song written during the civil rights movement, or any of the great anti-war anthems from the Vietnam era.
Have you heard much of the brilliant political satire of Warren Zevon?
There’s this other American guy whose lyrics are pretty important to his music, what’s his name… oh yeah, Bob Dylan.
Apart from anger, there seems to be little deep feeling in it.
Here, let’s look at the white American performers with the most certified gold and platinum albums.
Aerosmith
The Beach Boys
Garth Brooks
Johnny Cash
Chicago
John Denver
Neil Diamond
The Doors
Bob Dylan
Toby Keith
Kenny G
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Madonna
Barry Manilow
Willie Nelson
Kenny Rogers
James Taylor
Look at that list!
These are the “angry” musicians that white America loves?
Unless every black person owns 3 copies of The Best of The Beach Boys, I think you’ve done a very poor job of representing “white music”.
LikeLiked by 1 person
One interesting thing about white rock fans though… they have a completely different ear for vocals than fans of black music.
I for one find it almost impossible to listen to Bob Dylan for any amount of time, yet there are legions of fans who think he’s just amazing. I like a few of his songs…when they are covered by black people! (Jimi Hendrix’s “All along the watchtower”, Nina Simone’s “I shall be released”.)
Likewise, the Beatles are pretty poor singers in comparison to the black artists they imitated early on in their career. Ditto for the Stones.
But a reason for the success of many of those artists songs is that they can be sung by anyone and still sound OK. A lot of soul songs don’t sound that good being sung in the shower, or by some beginner with a guitar, because they require a higher level of vocal skills. The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
LikeLike
Beatles is the most overrated band in the history of music. My personal opinion, not a fact. I think they are good, but not divine.
If I had to choose a “rocker “I really love, it’s Billy Idol. Rebel yeeelll!
I don’t see music as color, there are just songs I like and ones that I don’t like. I’ve just noticed along the years that the songs I’ve liked the most are mostly by black artists.
And also, chuckle, music by gay artists! Pet Shop Boys, George Michael etc, etc…
LikeLike
I started out listening to Soul/R&B only as a kid, but had a mix of friends in high school who listened to Rock. Most of it I didn’t like, but some of it was great. Then as time went by, my music tastes became more eclectic. Of course, Rock itself has changed a lot in the past 20 years.
Anyway, I can and do listen to both genres now, but I appreciate them in different ways. Modern music is all cross-pollinated. You will find a LOT of Western influences in what we think of as “Black music” today, right down to the harmonies, chord progressions, and instruments used. The notion that the borrowing/adaptation was all one directional is erroneous.
LikeLike
“But a reason for the success of many of those artists songs is that they can be sung by anyone and still sound OK. A lot of soul songs don’t sound that good being sung in the shower, or by some beginner with a guitar, because they require a higher level of vocal skills. The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.”
I have to disagree. It takes alot of talent and pratice to sing some metal songs. it’s just a different stlye of singing. Except for Somali music, some hip-hop, Regee,and en Vogue, I can’t relate to “black” music.I’ve tried to listen to bm, but I found so painful to listen to. I just really don’t like the way Melismatic Vocals sound.R&B sounds very boring and most of the songs sound the same. So overly sad babymama/I’m a strong woman is all I hear. Hip-Hop is okay, but can’t relate to the whole living on the streets thing. I’m big fan of Japanese music. Mainly,enka and j-rock/pop. Plus, I find the urban/thug style ugly. It’s doesn’t have the beauty of gothic lolita or visual kei.
LikeLike
I can’t think rock/roll as white. When I think of white music, I think of counrty or classical.
LikeLike
@ Hannu:
I was with you up until the point where you mentioned Billy Idol.
@ Usagi:
there are always exceptions, and metal is probably one of them. But if you listen to most indie music, punk, country, and a lot of mainstream pop and rock, most of the singers are in the “average to good” class.
I can’t relate to “black” music
You should really start with music from the 60s and early 70s. That’s the golden age of black music IMO. Most R&B today is rubbish, frankly.
LikeLike
White people music:
LikeLike
“To a large degree White American music is watered-down black music. The swing music of the 1940s came from jazz, while rock and pop came from rhythm and blues (R & B) and gangsta rap from hip hop.”
I don’t think that anyone with an understanding of hip-hop would try to make a real delineation between Gangster Rap and Hip-Hop. Or say that Gangster Rap is for WP and “real” hip-hop is for BP. It doesn’t really work like that at all. Hip-Hop has gone through many phases and has branched off in many directions over the years.
Gangster was just one style out of many, and it’s not really a separate genre anymore anyway. Nobody calls anything “gangster Rap” anymore. Artists like Flocka and UGK are the closest thing to gangster rap today and you better believe they have huge support within the black community.
What about 2pac and Biggie? Are they Gangster or “real” hip-hop? They were both and everyone from the hood to the burbs was buying their records. So again trying to draw a line here is meaningless.
When I was in college white students listened to Native Tongues, Tribe Called Quest, The Roots, Wu-Tang, Common, Mos Def, Fugees, Digable Planets, etc. It may be true that gangster rap got more support from white suburban kids, but that’s just because there are so many of them and they have more money. What you’re leaving out is that white fans supported those artists I listed as well, if not more so. Without white fans The Roots would be playing to empty houses.
LikeLike
@ Eurasian Sensation : I’ve listened to old school blackmusic and still didn’t like most of it. It’s so slow and boring. Most rap is just talking real fast. IDK, maybe I can’t relate to subjects. 85 percent of black music is just between meh and ewwww. I’m take Marilyn Manson, Gackt, and David Bowie over Al Green,Jill Scott, or Teana Marie . And most soul music is blah. But that’s just me.
LikeLike
Anyone agree that De La Soul’s ‘Three feet high and rising’ is either the ‘Pet Sounds’ or the ‘Sargeant Pepper’ of all Rap albums.
I like a fusion of music and all different genres. Credit where credits due, there are many songs that have been influenced by or come about as a direct link from black artists but…music ever changing and constantly evolving and I more often than not like the results. Being UK based and growing up in the late 70’s early 80’s I listened to:-
Disco
SKA/Two Tone
POP
New Wave
Soul
Hip Hop
Jungle
House
Reggae
All kinds of music and perhaps I have gone from one to another because one genre resembles another but ALL that music, man! Music has seen me through good days, bad days, etc. As the saying goes, Music has definately been the soundtrack to my life 🙂
LikeLike
According to the Wikipedia entry “Music of the United States” even country music is not without the influence of African musical traditions:
“African American musical styles became an integral part of American popular music through blues, jazz, rhythm and blues, and then rock and roll, soul and hip hop; all of these styles were consumed by Americans of all races, but were created in African American styles and idioms before eventually becoming common in performance and consumption across racial lines. In contrast, country music derives from both African and European, as well as Native American and Hawaiian, traditions and yet has long been perceived as a form of white music.[6]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_music
LikeLike
@Eurasian Sensation
I for one find it almost impossible to listen to Bob Dylan for any amount of time, yet there are legions of fans who think he’s just amazing. I like a few of his songs…when they are covered by black people! (Jimi Hendrix’s “All along the watchtower”, Nina Simone’s “I shall be released”.)
I think most Dylan fans would acknowledge that is talent is poetry, not vocals. I agree about liking the covers more, but I wouldn’t restrict it to just black artists. There have been several great covers of “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door” by everyone from Guns’N’Roses to Warren Zevon while he was dying of lung cancer.
Speaking of Warren Zevon, where are the black artists writing songs about CIA involvement in the Congolese anti-colonial war? I like some of K’Naan’s stuff, but I struggle to find much thoughtful commentary in today’s music.
The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
Interesting theory, and it probably has some merit. Although I’ll have to disagree with later posters who said that The Beatles weren’t great vocalists: maybe not at the start, but by Let It Be and into their solo careers they were pros.
I think we could add that in addition to coming up with “really good melodies”, rock and roll artists of that era wrote powerful lyrics. One of the reasons rock dominated the 60’s and most of the 70’s was its close association with social and political change. I don’t see the same situation today.
The opposition to the Vietnam War and growing authoritarianism by rock artists in that era was open and effective. John Lennon with Give Peace a Chance and Happy Xmas (War is Over). Buffalo Springfield with For What It’s Worth (Stop Children, What’s That Sound?). The Doors with The Unknown Soldier. Dylan’s All Along the Watchtower. CCR had a bunch which, like Fortunate Son, you would recognize if you heard. The list is huge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_about_the_Vietnam_War
Meanwhile, there is no list of songs about the Iraq War. What’s going on? The last decade of American life has been rife with social and political discord, and the biggest artists in music are too busy writing songs about themselves. Black soldiers are dying in disproportionate numbers in the middle of the desert in a war for oil, but you won’t hear about it on the radio. And as much as I appreciated Kanye West’s “George Bush does not care about black people” improv (complete with deer-in-the-headlights stare), it really doesn’t compare to John Lennon performing at anti-war rallies while Nixon was trying to get him deported.
So finally, @Abagond:
[White] Music is largely a private experience.
Well, no. My favourite music connects me to the struggle for humanity in the world. It’s an intensely emotional experience carried by the melody, the voice, but most of all by the lyrics. I share it with my friends whenever I can. Some of my favourite memories involve my friends, a guitar and a campfire.
I don’t listen to the radio anymore because my impression of today’s music is that it’s all composed on a computer in a studio, with lyrics written by artists who were chosen for their appearance. I leave it to my friends to update me with the occasional gem that trickles through the mediocrity machine.
LikeLike
@ Awryguy:
The lack of vocal talent by a lot of early white rock artists forced them to compensate by coming up with really good melodies.
Think about it this way… you can reduce a lot of Beatles songs to just an acoustic guitar or piano, and have it sung by someone who can barely sing, and they will still sound pretty good. Then think about a song like Aretha’s “Respect” or James Brown’s “Sex Machine” (I’m just choosing well known examples), being sung by some amateur humps. Yuk. Unless the band and vocalist are first-class, the songs would have no appeal.
One of the reasons rock dominated the 60′s and most of the 70′s was its close association with social and political change.
I would actually contend that soul and funk music grasped the thread of social change equally well or better than the white rock world. As an example, check out Curtis Mayfield’s “Back in the World”, Swamp Dogg’s “Sam Stone” or Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Happening, Brother”, all of which deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets. Plus African-Americans had more problems to deal with than white Americans, so they had a lot of stuff to draw on for inspiration.
LikeLike
The only styles of popular music that is white american that I can think of are:
Country & Western (awful)
Grunge (some good bands but most are whiny and protentious)
Emo (Like grunge except there is no good emo music whatsoever)
Most Metal (I love most metal genres except Black/Death metal)
Techno (Awful)
Acid House (awful)
LikeLike
@Eurasian Sensation
Think about it this way… you can reduce a lot of Beatles songs to just an acoustic guitar or piano, and have it sung by someone who can barely sing, and they will still sound pretty good. Then think about a song like Aretha’s “Respect” or James Brown’s “Sex Machine” (I’m just choosing well known examples), being sung by some amateur humps. Yuk. Unless the band and vocalist are first-class, the songs would have no appeal.
Yeah, I got that the first time. My point was an addition to yours, not a counter.
I would actually contend that soul and funk music grasped the thread of social change equally well or better than the white rock world. As an example, check out Curtis Mayfield’s “Back in the World”, Swamp Dogg’s “Sam Stone” or Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Happening, Brother”, all of which deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets. Plus African-Americans had more problems to deal with than white Americans, so they had a lot of stuff to draw on for inspiration.
I wouldn’t argue that black artists in the 60’s and 70’s weren’t just as involved in the counterculture movement as their white counterparts. I was making a point about rock artists before, but I’m also aware of several powerful reggae songs from the same era – with Jimmy Cliff’s “Vietnam” being the best for its simple poignancy. I know “What’s Happening Brother”, but my only experience with Curtis Mayfield is “Superfly”. I’ll check out the others you mentioned.
Speaking of songs that deal with the experiences of returning Vietnam vets, have you ever really listened to the lyrics of “Born in the U.S.A.”? It’s not the fist pumping anthem that Reagan made it look like.
The distinction I wanted to focus on was that white rock artists were openly political at the peak of their popularity, which hasn’t been the case with any of the genres that have dominated the music scene since then. I’m not singling black artists out, because disco was everybody’s fault. And most of the music from popular white artists in the last 20 years has been self-indulgent and shallow.
It’s just… there’s so much opportunity here. I don’t see any other venue in which African-Americans could communicate with the white population so effectively. Even putting race relations aside, artists have always had the responsibilty of speaking truth to power. Do you think there’s enough of that in today’s music?
I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions. Tupac’s “Changes” still gives me chills the way “Imagine” does; I think the lasting populatiry of that song says a lot about what people respect in an artist.
LikeLike
I actually like many songs by Bob Dylan… Also Beach Boys and such… Billy Idol to me wrote and performed some ot the horniest songs ever…
I also dig roots, blues, bluegrass and I heard Lee Dorsey’s song “Sitting on my Ya-Ya”. I was like 14 and it sounded weird, but I fell in love with it… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LnpErE6f4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
And I also dig reggae: seems like me and Demerera have a similar taste in music! Coincidentally, my sister worked in Ireland (for EU) in Trim, and I’ve visited Ireland three times…
Bad Manners was a quite popular ska band, I still love their “Nananenenunuu”… Lol
LikeLike
@ awryguy:
The distinction I wanted to focus on was that white rock artists were openly political at the peak of their popularity, which hasn’t been the case with any of the genres that have dominated the music scene since then. I’m not singling black artists out, because disco was everybody’s fault. And most of the music from popular white artists in the last 20 years has been self-indulgent and shallow.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that what many regard as the “golden eras” of several of the musical genres you mentioned were also the eras when the artists had something to say in socio-political terms.
That mid-to-late-60s period is the era that rock fans get most misty-eyed about, but likewise for soul fans (with funk, also strongly infused with black consciousness, also extending that period into the early 70s). The same could be said about reggae in the early to mid 70s.
The golden age of hip-hop is generally regarded as between around 1988 and 1991; the top artists of that area were very socially-minded (although not always in politically correct fashion) – Public Enemy, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Ice Cube, etc.
LikeLike
I think an important element is missing here,The John Phillips Sousa marching beat~If you have a good marching beat -which by the way can be found amongst a lot of hit tunes then you have what they call -“a winner”Think about it next time you listen to Pink floyd” Brick in the wall”Great nard drivin marching beat takin directly frm sousa and slowed down a wee bit.
LikeLike
I agree Jim they ll talk about the black influence of which there definately is.But also there ws n emotional charged beat you find in those old marching songs that producers discovered long agao can add the emotion that makes one want to move…..”Eye Of The Tiger” from the Rocky movie also illustrates the beat derived from Sousa and his Marches produced long ago but still interjected today although scrammbled and spiced up some as a good omlet would be lols
LikeLike
It’s funny that a lot of our musical arts and talents didn’t get recognized. I’ve had countless arguments with white racists about this. Like one time, on yahoo answers a white person said that white people have music, inventions, and civilization. After, he said what do blacks have to be proud of AIDS? He got 9 thumbs up 0 thumbs down. I argued and said all your music came from us though without blacks you wouldn’t have rock, blues, jazz, ect. I then received 2 thumbs up 11 thumbs down. A white person on there said like who snoop dog? I was like these people are delusional. He received 6 thumbs up one thumbs down. From that day foward I was tired of fighting just for being black so that’s when I gave up on yahoo!.
LikeLike
“I was like these people are delusional. He received 6 thumbs up one thumbs down. From that day foward I was tired of fighting just for being black so that’s when I gave up on yahoo!”
*******
It does get tiresome, doesn’t it?
In the USA they make up roughly 70% of the population, blacks are around 13%… As soon as you’re done putting down one naysayer (racist), ten more delusional ones, ten times worse appear. In the present state of affairs it is a NEVER ENDING battle. The late esteemed law professor, Derrick Bell, saw racism in America as a permanent affair.
FACT:
If they weren’t DELUSIONAL – where we’re concerned – they would literally self-destruct, sooner! We are the glue that causes THEM too bind together. Even against their own socioeconomic interests! Without us they would shred/annihilate themselves to pieces!
LikeLike
All the popular music from America is actually black american music, even rock although whites essentially took that over.
LikeLike
@Poetess
Rock music originally started as Black music but when Elvis Presley came and made Rock music mainstream in the 1950s.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
Well said and I like the Rap song you displayed.
Honestly as a young Black woman, I don’t like the Rap that is played on the radio today because I feel that rappers like Drake, Nicki Minaj, Tyga, 2 Chainz, Lil Wayne etc are destroying Rap music, the Hip Hop culture and Black culture in general. Most of the Rap songs on the radio are about sex, drugs, hoes, getting laid, cars etc plus there is so much profanity in their songs too.
I prefer mostly old school Rap music and I like underground Rap too since most of the good Rap music is underground these days.
I am not trying to discredit the few good MAINSTREAM rappers like Eminem, Lupe Fiasco, BOB, J Cole but most of today’s mainstream Rap music has really gotten out of hand.
You are right that what is happening to Rap music right now is what happened to Rock music thirty years ago and Jazz about eighty to ninty years ago.
I personally hate the terms ”White music” and ”Black music” because I believe people of all races can listen to any type of music but sadly people still use terms like that.
LikeLike
I have stated this based on my own observations but I have very rarely heard anyone else say the same. I can remember being at “Rap Off” talent completions and talking to guys afterward who were amazingly talented rappers. these guys were so much better than the guys we were hearing on the radio at that time that it made me wonder. These guys were not just technically proficient but mesage driven. They were articulate, biting critisizms of society. I asked whether any of them had been approached by amrecord label. They told me that the A&R people were only looking for “gangsta.” if you were rapping about doing crimes, abusing women, pimping, or drugs, then they wanted you. if you were rapping about social inequity, self-reliance, or regime change, then you got sidelined.
LikeLike
@Bulanik and Legion
I am glad you guys know where I am coming from with my opinion. I feel Rap music’s quality went down when it became commercialized and went mainstream in the early to mid 1990s. It was when White corporate media businessmen took control of Rap music and the music industry. Since then the quality of mainstream Hip Hop and Rap music has deterioted to the mess that we hear on the radio today.
It is sad because I enjoy most of the older Hip Hop and Rap songs from the 1980s and early 1990s. Rap used to be a fresh, new and creative music genre that brought out new and exciting young talented people. It isn’t like that anymore….well not on mainstream anyways.
@Legion
Now I see why Cyndi Lauper wasn’t as big as Madonna based on the information you posted. I love Cyndi Lauper’s music and my favorite song by her is TIme After Time. I am a fan of oldies from Marvin Gaye to Michael Jackson and I even like some Classic Rock.
LikeLike
@King
Exactly! Most of the good rappers today are overlooked in mainstream because the White corporate media controls the Hip Hop/Rap music industry and in Rap music, many of them want to promote stereotypes about Black people in this type of music and make money off of it.
I likened the modern day music videos, BET, etc to a modern day ministrel show. It was Whites painting themselves in black paint and making fun of us but this time we are doing it to ourselves. We are willing to make ourselves look bad in front of the TV screen to make money.To me that is sad.
LikeLike
Yeah Adeen, most of the groups I’m thinking of never even got a chance to record commercially. There are only a few examples of political rappers who got through the screening process and made it into the mainstream.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=am9BqZ6eA5c
LikeLike
She’s So Unsual by Cyndi Lauper was a fun album. With Lots of fun songs. She Boop was such a fun song to me. There are lots of great white artist that I like. I have an electic collection of music in my music collection.
LikeLike
Not much of a Springsteen fan but I liked “I’m On Fire”.
LikeLike
@Legion
Thank you.
@King
SMH(means shaking my head in texting by the way) it is not good. We need more conscious rappers that rap about the real issues that people face in their life. Sadly we both know that these conscious rappers wouldn’t appeal to the dumb downed teenagers of my generation because they are so into that crap that stupid rappers like Nicki Minaj and Lil Wayne promote.
LikeLike
@Mary Burrell
Nice to hear from a Cyndi Lauper fan and were you there back then? I am almost 18 and most of the music I listen to came out way before I was born.
Yes I like Cyndi Lauper’s music. She was and still is a talented woman and artist.
LikeLike
Rap really got in under the umbrella of hip hop and break dance was the catalyst that made the world sit up and take notice of hip hop…in the late 70’s and early eithties you would see films with break dance in it and it had been in the street before that. Rap started in under that and then , through record company manipulation, probably maybe Run DMC with Aerosmith” Walk this Way , things started taking on a differant tone.
but, the break dance with some beats that had never been heard before , were the thing that really the most important parts of the movement and now it got pushed to the background. The original break beat had a wild bass drum part , and then, several other great beats came in on the scene, Jack Swing, influenced by the GoGo movement out of DC, and , Missy Eliot and Timberland came up with some monster beats , I actualy invented one beat he became famous for , 12 years earliar, I can prove it, but, whatever,they were dealing on the serious hip hop tip….
I just cant think of that many great now innovative beats in the last 10 years or so, and, I know some dances have evolved but they didnt take off internationaly like many black American dances have in the past…a subject that is just extremly rich yet never really given its just due
I learned to apreciete Tupac, a gangster rapper, his rhythmic phrasing is intence…I like DMX too, but I saw him in a movie first
You have to realise, rap and gangster rap has been a farm team for Hollywood, the amount of rappers who have cut out big time movie careers is astounding, more than comedians, martial artists , singers and atheletes, the type of non actors who have gotten fame from movies in the past…
But the beat and dance were the real deal that broke it, how quickly everyone forgets that
LikeLike
GOOD article. Gangsta rap seems to be a form of White American music. Of all the forms of hip hop it is closest to rock and sells the best, mainly to whites. Its videos and words tend to play to the worst stereotypes whites have about blacks, like the old minstrel shows. It is no more a form of black music than were the coon songs of the 1890s”
Well said Abagond.
LikeLike
I also think what is good and bad is subjective, I dont like O Conor or Springsteen, Id rather watch Tip Drill , and that is number one on songs that people use to state rap is bad
LikeLike
I actualy have to think hard if there is a white artist in pop music I like at all in the last couple of decades , maybe there is and it just doesnt come to mind. Jaco Pastorious is more someone who had an original sound that a lot of people copied, that comes to mind , but I lean a little more towards Marcus Miller on bass. Fred Astair is more who I think of as one bad dude, but, of course the amount of incredible black tap dancers that didnt get his recognition is astounding…lets face it, American music is built on Afro Diasporic foundations..that is just reality
LikeLike
@Adeen
“Most of the good rappers today are overlooked in mainstream because the White corporate media controls the Hip Hop/Rap music industry and in Rap music, many of them want to promote stereotypes about Black people in this type of music and make money off of it.”
This argument has been around since the 90s (maybe longer) and IMO it has never had as little validity as it has now. It’s not entirely untrue yet, but it’s heading there.
The music industry has never been as decentralized as it is now. People are discovering music on youtube, through gazillions of blogs and sites like hotnewhiphop or bandcamp. Online you can get music from any part of the world, every genre imaginable, either legally or through file sharing. The era of radio, MTV and corporations deciding what people should listen to, is long gone.
In 2013, if an artist or a band is not getting a lot of exposure it’s probably because they either are not particularly good at what they do or there is no audience for the kind of stuff that they do. Generally, the people who make intelligent, innovative or unique music do not become popular 99.99% of the time, regardless which genre they are representing, because most music consumers like generic accessible stuff.
So, if you want to blame white people for the current state of hip hop I think it makes much more sense to blame the fans.
LikeLike
eco,
It has been documented that most fans of mainstream hip-hop, including gangsta rap, are white youth. So, in a sense we still hold white people responsible. Somebody has to at least.
LikeLike
Yeah, we’ll most of the fans are White teenagers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702048.html
LikeLike
White American music for the most part sucks but they still manage to get off a good one every now and then. The 80’s (how I miss it) was my time though, and the Brits — Soft Cell, Robert Palmer /Powerhouse, Spandau Ballet, Pet Shop Boys, Boy George, Steve Winwood, Dexy’s Midnight Runners, Duran Duran… on and on etc, etc had it going on as far as ‘white’ music goes was concerned.
LikeLike
Oh, and lest I forget Tears for Fears “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0)
and “Shout” (http://www.youtube.comhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEWwZNUafKo/watch?v=ZEWwZNUafKo)
as well as Human League’s “Don’t you Want Me Baby?”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPudE8nDog0)
and
“Human” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ysoohV_zA)
LikeLike
Thompson Twins “Hold Me Now”
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9694K85Xc8]
LikeLike
@brothawolf, King
Doesn’t the idea, that white kids are responsibly for the low quality of mainstream Black music, rely on the assumption that Black kids listen to better hip hop? Are you sure about that one?
LikeLike
Not really, eco. s has been demonstrated, the shot callers and gate keepers in the music industry determined what kind of rap music would be marketed to the public. Those are the people who set the direction of Rap for over a decade, and they were mostly White. The rest is social inertia.
LikeLike
As has been
LikeLike
@King
“the shot callers and gate keepers in the music industry determined what kind of rap music would be marketed to the public.”
And the public had nothing to say about it? What was more popular amongst black kids? The intellectual, conscious hip hop or the ignorant gangsta/party stuff? Was it only the white kids who liked gangsta rap or did that style generally make rap more popular amongst all kids, Black ones included?
And in 2013? Who/what forces Black kids to like ignorant rap?
LikeLike
Eco, the point is that the more intellectual, message-based hip hop never saw the light of day commercially except for in a very few instances, and yes, then rappers like Public Enemy, Mos Def, Common were quite popular. But the decision to make rap what it is today was almost universally decided by White music executives.
LikeLike
@King
I understand that, but I think this reasoning doesn’t go all the way. It’s possible to take it further. Why did the white music executives make these decisions? What was their motivation? IMO it was simply money. They wanted to market rap to younger kids, because there was a demand for it, so they promoted ignorant stuff kids are into. It worked and hip hop reached a new level of commercial success both with Black and white kids.
I’m not saying race wasn’t a factor. Sure it was, and still is today, but the main reason why rap got dumbed down is simply because kids are more into the ignorant stuff and they consume a lot of it. That’s true both for Black and white kids. What happened to hip hop has also happened to every popular kind of music at least since the 80s. Heavy metal (turned into hair metal), thrash and grunge (radio hard rock), prog and indie rock (Coldplay-style soft rock), industrial and alternative metal (late 90s rap rock), and so on, and so on, with dubstep probably being the most recent example.
Seeing what happened to hip hop as some kind of conspiracy, either about white executives or white fans promoting stereotypes about Black people, is IMO on the same level of BS as believing in the Illuminati influence on pop music.
LikeLike
Eco, I think that people often think that capitalism (money making) is,the primary factor in decisions made in business. Sometimes this is true, but sometimes the way that people attempt to make money is guided by the ways they see the world. We’re not necessarily pointing to a conspiracy, what we,are pointing to is a distorted worldview and a misguided expectation for certain kinds of music from certain kinds of people.
Had more Blacks had more say in the music industry that they had been so big a part of for so long, they would have been more interested in forms of Rap that spoke to Black people about power and change. But because the web of prejudice was still being woven in the hiring and promotional practices of the music industry, the Blacks who worked there had very little voice in the direction that Black music would take in the 1990s. White music executives were not interested in marketing things like social change or opening up debate on injustice or misuse of power. To be honest, many of them, at the time, were themselves practicing these very things within their own industry. Do you suppose that their own guilt about their own practices had no effect on their decisions?
In addition there was a choice to make about how to make money, and at what collateral cost. Rap, before it became mainstream, was most popular among Black people. If Rap had taken the high road and spoken to politics, injustice, and power, it would likely have remained an African-American musical phenomenon. However, if it abandon it’s politics, and instead focused on championing sex, drugs, and making money, it would have a wider appeal among young Whites as well as young Blacks. However, the cost would be that where Black gangster music would serve as entertainment to young Whites, it was more likely to serve as success role models for young Blacks. The problem was that White music executives didn’t care, and were more interested in the potential for making money. Now, to be fair, some Blacks might have made the same call, but it is almost certain that there would have been much more advocacy for other forms of Rap had more Blacks and less Whites been calling the shots.
That makes Gangster Rap more the legacy of White executives selling to a mostly White audience then it is a legacy of Black culture, and that is the argument.
LikeLike
Ladies, if Bryan Ferry doesn’t make you melt, you’re all made of sterner stuff than I can imagine.
Bryan Ferry has never done it for me as his facial contortions when he is singing reminds me too much of this guy;
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9TOitV21XE&list=PLCFC7ED9862AB0C97)
Perhaps they’re cousins?
LikeLike
@Eco
I listen to the underground and old school Hip Hop/Rap. I don’t like today’s mainstream Hip Hop. I have heard underground rappers that sounded better than today’s mainstream rappers.
First of all, I never said Black kids listen to better Hip Hop than Whites kids. In fact, it was a White classmate who pointed that most of today’s mainstream Rap music sucked, which he is correct.
Second of all, Why should I blame the fans? The fans are mostly teenagers and young adults in their twenties (I am a teenager) who don’t know any better. They have been listening to this type of music their whole lives.
Stop trying to twist my words around to suit your purpose of being ”right”!
It is not my fault that today’s mainstream Rap is all about sex, drugs etc!
@Legion and King
Well said. I agree. Honestly online posers like Eco get on my nerves and I am here trying to be myself!
LikeLike
Ahem, that’s Jim Nabors aka Gomer Pyle.
LikeLike
I do like Roxy Music Avalon was one of my favorite albums back then. My favorite song was the first song on the album. More Than This. Bryan Ferry’s ethereal voice was quite heavenly. I always liked the album cover.
LikeLike
@Adeen; Keep being yourself. Express yourself anyway you want to.
LikeLike
@Mary Burrell
Thank you! I know that person meant well and all but I felt like that person was twisting my words around. I don’t hate that person at all.
I just want to be me!
LikeLike
@King…. That is a fine theory and there is no way to know that because you aren’t Doc Brown and Marty with the Delorean. You are pretty much generalizing that the only reason whites like rap is because of all the negative things associated with it. My opinion the rap of the nineties was at it’s height and “Arrested Development” ,”De La Soul” “Tribe called Quest”and other more “positive” rap did just fine with white kids as well. Your theory is not fact.
LikeLike
Boy George and the Culture Club. Annie Lennox and the Eurthmics. Duran Duran. I loved the Reflex. The birth of MTV was a very exciting time for music. Athough video killed it for the radio artist that were visually appealing.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
lol thanks!
When my mother was growing up, many Caucasian teens and young adults listened to Rock music such as Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Aerosmith etc while she and many other Blacks listened to R&B and Soul such as Stephanie Mills, Switch, Michael Jackson etc. That was the late 1970s early 1980s time period but the Hip Hop culture and Rap music was just a new music genre that was slowly getting attention
When Rap music became mainstream in the 1990s, Whites and people of all races began listening to it because Rock music was losing it’s mainstream dominance that it once had in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.
Is this true or was I just listening to what my mother told me?
But musician styles of each generation change but my mothers’ music influenced my generation’s music.
LikeLike
@Adeen; Your Mother was right and on point about music in that time frame.
LikeLike
Adeen,
On your comment about mainstream hip-hop even some rappers who are or once were in the mainstream circuit said that today’s rap is full of materialistic, misogynistic crap that a lot of fans seem to hate. The mostly white music executives determine what is considered hip-hop in the corporate world and shove it in the eyes and ears of today’s youth. Like Taalam Acey said in his poem…
At the same time, many black youth, particularly males, see all of the false images of money, cars and women, and want to become rappers themselves the same way they see black athletes in sports and want to be in the NFL or NBA. They see the fame and fortune as authentic and want a piece of that because some of them have never seen black men in any other position who is just as, or more successful. This is not to discourage them from being rappers or ball players, but there are other interests.
It’s like selling a product that doesn’t work to the most gullible population, and sales in mainstream rap are dropping due to a lot of factors.
LikeLike
read through the comments and Abagond….. elvis was not just good because he was white. He was good period and had alot more feelings then just anger. I realize this is a cover of Simon and Garfunkel … but it is one of the best covers in my opinion…. and you can feel the emotion in his voice.
LikeLike
Things also go in cycles. Rap is at the bottom of the cycle in my opinion right now. There is probably some good underground stuff, but most of the “Little Wayne” “Drake” “Nikki” stuff is pretty bad. Just not my cup of tea. I would say that Rock was in one of those cycles 10 years ago when I didn’t like anything coming out at all. And I could listen to the Rap station all day with “P Diddy” and “Jlo” and “Nelly” and many others like between 03 and 05….. Now with bands like “Mumford” “The Lumineers” “Fun” etc. I can now listen to the Alternative New Rock station all day. Funny how that works.
LikeLike
But…. since the topic is “White American Music” the best live performer ever imo is “Bruce” your picture at the top is fitting. Because he smokes his British counterparts live….. well maybe iron maiden would give him a run for his money with all the theatrics.
God bless Clarence Clemons
LikeLike
@Legion
“It’s stupid to deny what the record execs did.”
I haven’t denied they’ve historically had influence on the situation. I said that currently they have little control over it. At this point intelligent hip hop could make a comeback if there were enough people who support it. In reality conscious hip hop is a niche and relatively few people care about it. Music fans have the means to listen to whatever they want, whenever they want to. The majority chooses the ignorant stuff. And it’s not just the majority of White people, is it?
“shallow plea to ‘blame the fans’ and turn a blind eye to the execs.”
Can’t we have both? The execs have a moral responsibility for what they choose to promote, but there is demand for it too.
“Political rap was antithetical to the existing order, it was marginalized.”
It was also becoming boring and eventually couldn’t compete with ignorant rap. At least that’s how teenage kids, the main music consumers, seem to see it.
“We were discussing the origins of how rap was transformed into a vulgar product and massively supplied to white consumers and to blacks too.”
You are mainly analyzing it by presenting it as if it was a unique situation when in fact there were very few unique factors. I think it’s ignoring a larger context that puts things in perspective. The process of music becoming dumbed down as it is trying to reach a younger audience, is typical, not special. That’s why I think that seeing it as something driven mainly by money, demand and supply, is more accurate.
The only truly unique thing about what happened to hip hop is IMO the fact that it was representing a whole race in the eyes of white people and when rap went through the typical process of gaining popularity and becoming ignorant the process affected how the whole race was seen.
@King
“Had more Blacks had more say in the music industry that they had been so big a part of for so long, they would have been more interested in forms of Rap that spoke to Black people about power and change.”
I generally agree with pretty much everything you said in that comment, but I think you are overestimating the impact Black people working in the industry could have had. They could improve the situation, make the representation of the artists and music less stereotypical, absolutely. But they wouldn’t have prevented it from becoming ignorant party music, because that happens to every popular style. It’s inevitable.
The violent imagery probably wouldn’t have been so important, but partying, money, drugs, probably misogyny, would have still been prominent. Maybe downplayed, but still important. That’s just the kind of stuff that sells best.
@Adeen
“Why should I blame the fans? The fans are mostly teenagers and young adults in their twenties (I am a teenager) who don’t know any better.”
Shouldn’t they know better? You do. I did when I was your age. Being ignorant is not an excuse.
“I never said Black kids listen to better Hip Hop than Whites kids.”
I’ve never said you did. You are referencing a comment I addressed at King and Brothawolf.
LikeLike
LikeLike
The music business is more fukked up than any of you could imagine
LikeLike
@Eco
I know better they don’t.
I was trying to refer to the kids who listen to today’s mainstream Hip Hop. They are around my age group was what I was trying to say,
I don’t listen to Nicki Minaj or that Lil Wayne crap. I know it is bad and degrading.
@Dave
You have some good points, keep it up. I believe Elvis was a talented man and individual but the only credit I can give him is that he made Rock and Roll mainstream to the public. I don’t hate Elvis in fact, I love Jailhouse Rock and a few of his songs.
I am not trying to discredit your claims because Bruce Springsteen and Bono were amazing artists and still are today.
Have you heard of Queen, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith etc?
They are what I listen to these days as well as old school R&B. I love Led Zeppelin, Queen and Beatles the most though.
@BrothaWolf
Agreed.
LikeLike
Oh yeah Adeen. Those were some of my favs as well growing up. I had alot of hand me down records from older brothers who had all those bands on vinyl. I also get sick of certain music then come back to it later. Did that a few times with Led Zep.
LikeLike
I disagree. I think that greater Black representation amongst the decision makers would have afforded the development of a more diverse menu of Hip Hop, not just the worst stuff. It would not have been necessary to suppress the gangsta style, only give a chance to other alternatives styles, led by alternative Rap roll models. This would have made a noticeable difference. Better technique and a better message would have gone a llong way towards influencing a generation of Black youth to see a world with greater options as to where they fit into it.
The last time historically that I can remember when Blacks were truly in control of their own pop music was Motown. And the music produced under Berry Gordy’s label became an American icon. It was positive music with broad crossover appeal, and is still used worldwide for commercials etc. I’m not saying that today’s music would be exactly the same, but I think it does draw a sharp contrast between how Black people see themselves musically, and how White music executives see Black musicians, and what roles they should fill.
LikeLike
@Dave
Thanks and that is cool.
I like your choices of Bruce Springsteen as an example and I like your taste in music.
@King
I agree with you. I am on your side on this one.
LikeLike
Fleetwood Mac was another one of my favorites. Big Love was one of my favorite Fleetwood Mac songs they had many. Stevie Nicks was great with Stand Back which makes me feel wild.
LikeLike
Tom Petty is right up there as far as American rock goes as well. I could run off 50 more acts but I’m trying to be respectful and let other people have some input.
But one that shouldn’t be left out in any discussion about American “White” music is REM.
LikeLike
@Dave; Yeah REM is the business. And Depeche Mode was tight too. Radio Free Europe and Losing My Religion and Happy Shiney People. I like Michael Stipe and weird rhythmic moves.
LikeLike
Oops I meant Shiney Happy People @fiamma blu; Yes to all of those you mentioned I loved the Brits at that time. And the Pet Shop Boys and George Micheal and Wham. And Swing Out Sister.
LikeLike
Whatever happened to Bosha she was a great vocalist.
LikeLike
Basha, she was a singer from Poland. great singer. I wonder what happened to her?
LikeLike
@ Mary
I think you mean Basia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basia
LikeLike
Johnny Cash: Hurt
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go&feature=related
LikeLike
@ Abagond; Yes that’s what I meant. She was a very cool jazz singer. I used to have a cd of hers. that I remember liking very much. Thanks for responding Abagond, I appreciate that sir.
LikeLike
In the 90’s I had a few friends from a bunch of music genre, they put in a lot of hard work in their music. I will tell you this doesn’t matter what color you are get in bed with a music executive and you should go to a doctor to see what they’ve given you. The industry itself is slimy and bad. Everyone blames Milli Vanilli for their lip sync but it was their managers who forced them to do it. The artist formally known as Prince was called that because…
Most Musicians just get into the business because they like music, sure there are those who want just the fame but in most cases it is hard work to get that fame. Most enter in when they are dumb teenagers and have no clue as to what a contract entails and sign it anyway. I saw quite a few of those and those contracts can have you doing things you’ve never thought you would do but you signed it. I am not a fan of the Beatles but they admitted to loving black music. A lot of English rock bands in the 60 and 70’s had black musicians open up for them.
LikeLike
Huge Prince fan right here…. didn’t like him as much when he was “symbol”. I think only symbol got symbol back then. He came out with some weird music.
LikeLike
@Adeen; Queen was the business, I still listen to them. Aerosmith was great too. Keep listening and learning. Freddie Mercury was a great entertainer. The band was tight. Steve Tyler and Aerosmith I still like.
LikeLike
@Legion; Yes, I remember Kraftwerk; The really cool electronica sound. I always like the robotic sound when they count in Japanese. Computer World and Pocket Calculator was always fun.
LikeLike
@King
“I think that greater Black representation amongst the decision makers would have afforded the development of a more diverse menu of Hip Hop, not just the worst stuff.”
Did that happen in rock’s case? I don’t think so. That’s why it seems to me that more Black people in the music industry wouldn’t do much for hip hop. An army of white execs didn’t save mainstream rock from becoming awful.
Have you noticed that the examples of good rock (or “white music”) mentioned in this thread are mainly artists/bands from the 80s or older? I do not think that is a coincidence. That’s when mainstream music in general started to become extremely commercialized. It hasn’t just happened to hip hop.
“The last time historically that I can remember when Blacks were truly in control of their own pop music was Motown. (…) It was positive music with broad crossover appeal (…) I’m not saying that today’s music would be exactly the same, but I think it does draw a sharp contrast between how Black people see themselves musically, and how White music executives see Black musicians, and what roles they should fill.”
Didn’t Motown eventually lose its Black audience? Why did that happen if they represented “how Black people see themselves musically”?
I understand your point, that Motown was an example of a Black-owned company that created positive music, but doesn’t their history suggest that their business model wasn’t sustainable in the commercialized MTV era and later?
LikeLike
@Legion
“Ok, but the topic was focusing on the sidelining of a certain music: social rap, and some of the impact the sidelining had/has and a reasonable (it is too hasty to say “conspiricy theory”) idea about how the sidelining was done.”
And I tried to point out that we must analyze the history of modern music in general to be able to determine if what happen was in fact sidelining or just a natural process of losing ground to more commercialized music. We need to analyze the general situation to be able to figure out when something is typical and when it’s special, unusual.
In my opinion, the general situation suggests that commercialized music was quickly gaining fans and conscious rap couldn’t compete with it. Saying it was “sidelined” suggest someone actively prevented it from becoming successful and that looks a lot like a conspiracy theory to me.
“Venn diagram”
🙂
LikeLike
An interesting article and series of comments.
I generally disagree with the article in its characterization of rock music. Where it is accurate, it seems more a condemnation of heavily commercialized music or badly done rock music. Current pop rock is really bad, in my opinion, so I’ll give you that. It seems many commenters are sympathetic to the idea that rock has always had many talented folks making good music.
I agree that rock was heavily influenced by blues music (and also jazz) which were both created predominantly by black musicians. That’s obvious. Blues, and jazz and early rock, didn’t develop in a vacuum devoid of influence from non-blacks, however (it was obviously influenced by early country music). So, chasing down who adopted what and watered down what is a bit pointless at least to me. I just don’t sympathize with the tone of one group “stealing” another group’s form of artistic expression, at least at the level of the artist. As they say, there’s nothing new under the Sun, and most creative endeavors involve a bit of stealing from many influences and then attempting to make it your own somewhat.
Musicians can’t help but be influenced by what they listen to and enjoy. I see no moral danger in music changing as it always has by influence and some innovation over time. I’m sure that early black rock performers were influenced by non-black performers. This part, the artistic side, I’ve just tried to describe is hard to separate from the commercial side of things, but I think it must be kept somewhat distinct.
Speaking of the commercial side of things, obviously those at the helm have often made music worse. This cuts across genres. All commercial music seems to be getting worse, or maybe I’m just getting old. I agree that gangster rap has caused harm and it likely has been promoted over more constructive forms. I’ve not studied that, but it seems to be the case. I agree somewhat with eco that it is an interaction between the culture at any point, record label decisions, and people’s tastes. Socially conscious music is currently uncommon in all genres. When I listen to what passes for “deep” and “meaningful” in pop and country music these days, it’s sad. It’s generally spoon-fed syrup that beats you over the head with some trite love story. And yet I see seemingly reasonable people touched by it and singing their hearts out…..
LikeLike
I’d say the same thing about Kate Bush’s This Women’s Work and Maxwell’s version.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-JYxc5ftEzg
LikeLike
When Roy Orbison does pretty woman it is beautiful. But when Al Green does it it makes me feel all sexy inside. Both of these men are great artist, but it’s interesting how the delivery of the same song affects me. Roy Orbison had a beautiful ethereal voice like a summer breeze. Al Green is like soulful and provacative.
LikeLike
@Legion; Yes, I like her. she’s a soulful snowflake. She’s jazzy and soulful. I love how she did Sweet Georgia Brown. I heard that song done in a fast up tempo style. But I like how she takes her time and makes this song all her own. I saw the You Tube clip of her at the Newport Jazz festival. I like her style of dress. Women could dress back then. I loved her black dress trimmed in white and her high heeled pumps. So sassy and elegant. I put her up ther with Nina Simone and Sarah Vaughn. Now that would have been a great show. Along with Ella Fitzgerald. Thank Legion for introducing this jazzy lady to me. I will be looking for more of her music. It’s good to have a forum like this.
LikeLike
@Bulanik; Jimmy Hendrix was certainly a rock icon in his day. I sounds so tripy and funky. I have to be in a certain kind of mood to listen to his music. I have to be in a quiet state when listening to this to appreciate it. Thanks for this though.
LikeLike
And I can say the same for Whitney Houston’s version of “I Will Always Love You” vs Dolly Parton’s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWTaaS7LdU)
LikeLike
@lifelearner; I kind of liked Dolly’s version. I was sweet and quiet. But Miss Whitney just blew the roof off that puppy. She took that song to a whole other level. In my opinion i liked Dolly’s version. But Whitney took that to the statosphere.
LikeLike
Bulainik; You know you beat me to it. The Seals and Crofts version was always nice to me. I always made me anticipate warm spring days with the curtains blowing in the windows. Cooking something in the kitchen. The Seals and Crofts version made me have good vibrations. Now the Isley Brothers was just straight up funky and soulful. It was a great cover of that song as well. I like them both. But the Isley’s are one of my favorite funk and soul bands from that day. You are on point Ms. Bulainik. Good looking out.
LikeLike
@Legioion. Now you done it. Oh my goodness. 10cc. I used to love that song. I think someone else tried to cover this song as well. I don’t remember who it was. But yes this was a good song back in the day.
LikeLike
@Legion Debbie Harry and Blondie was part of the music scene then. I loved Rapture. it was a fun groove.
LikeLike
@Legion… I agree that what I wrote was in a nutshell and maybe not well written. He is absolutely right to say that many popular rap artists in the 90s till now are negative because that is what sells and some of the white greedy record execs are a major part of that. I just said there were some positive acts in the 90s that did good as well. I think it’s actually worse now and there are black execs as well now. My thing with the time machine was that if you were to go back and replace all the greedy execs with black producers and record company owners how do you know it would have been all positive. … and if it was how do you know white fans still wouldn’t buy those records.
LikeLike
Don’t think anyone mentioned James Taylor.
LikeLike
Record companies messed up white artists as well. It’s all about looks, trends, bubble gum pop, cookie cutter songs that sound watered down. Again I think there is a trend of good music creeping back in though.
LikeLike
“More than a Feeling: ~A favorite of mine from the American based group, Boston (Rest In Peace Brad Delp):
LikeLike
Boston is excellent.
LikeLike
@Dave; I love James Taylor songs. I love Shower The People and How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You and Marvin Gaye’s version. But the James Taylor song that sends me into fits of giggles. Damn This Traffic Jam hurts my motor to go so slow. Love that.
LikeLike
Cat Stevens Moonshadow. It’s A Wild World. I like the Tea For The Tillerman album.
LikeLike
Seals&Crofts We May Never Pass This Way Again.
LikeLike
I realize Lars is not American….. I realize Kirk is Hispanic…. however James Hetfield is a brilliant writer and front man and one of the premier rhythmic guitarist in the studio and live. This is obviously a cover with all piano . I believe it shows the complexity of the melody. Metallica is very good. period.
LikeLike
@Everyone
I love the musical choices you all posted. Boston, Bee Gees and Blondie were great and their music is still amazing to listen to after all of these years.
Sad to say, but I can’t say this about most of today’s mainstream music though although I think there are a few good artists. .
LikeLike
Fleetwood Mac The Chain is an awesome fantastic song.
LikeLike
George Harrison What is Life. My Sweet Lord. Epic.
LikeLike
Oh! Just beautiful! I’d forgotten about Glen Campbell’s “Wichita Lineman”. It’s one of my favorites.
It’s been said that there’s a message from the lineman to his lover in Morse code hidden in the instrumentals of the song.
LikeLike
Andy Wiilliams (I love “Moon River” and his Christmas songs), The Carpenters (“Close to You” and “We’ve Only Just Begun”) and Simon & Garfunkel (“Bridge Over Troubled Water”…actually Garfunkel did a solo on this one. His was the voice of an angel in this song!) are also all favorites of mine.
You have excellent taste in music, Bulanik!
LikeLike
Led Zeppelin’s Fool in the Rain
Michael Jackson’s Got the Hots
and Queen’s Need Your Loving Tonight.
My top three artists are Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson and Queen. The songs I listed are underrated songs by them.
LikeLike
Yeah, Queen is another great British band — “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Another One Bites the Dust” and “We are the Champions”.
“Inna Gadda Da Vida” is a good one from the American band, Iron Butterfly
LikeLike
In a Gadda da Vida:
LikeLike
Adeen I really liked “fool in the rain” It was the later Zep stuff. I believe off their last LP if I’m not mistaken. At least the last full studio album.
LikeLike
I am suprised that I don’t believe anyone mentioned “Journey” …. “Bruce” might be the best songwriter…. but as far as best vocal talent in “White Americans” I would vote for Steve Perry from Journey.
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_2IdybTV0) “Carry on my wayward son” by “Kansas”
Might need to listen to in a couple times to get it. It has alot of guitar solos and organ solos and stuff. But it also has a good melody and wisdom in the lyrics.
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFyMh4e3MmE)
Another great Journey song, that really is pure “White American Rock” I don’t hear much British Invasion influence here.
LikeLike
Oh my goodness, Michael Jackson Got The Hots? Never heard of this. I thought I was the consumate Michael Jackson fan. I don’t know how I slept on that one. But thanks for that.
LikeLike
Oh gee, I am not the only one who likes Glen Campbell’s “Wichita Lineman”. 😛
Hearing his voice really makes me reminisce about my early childhood listening to the radio.
I think the late 60s – 70s was the last time that black music and white American music really seemed to form 2 separate genres, and both provided a very eclectic mix of songs to listen to.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXrsw0UGQp4)
this is the type of white American I can respect playing music…he is going on stage with the best black American musicians (yes, Mccoy Tyner is as good as it gets in American music), and, they are challenging themselves to play music that isnt just pop music, but, this guy has done many pop record as a side musician…
ths guy went the extra mile
LikeLike
@Dave
Fool in the Rain is the third single off of the Led Zeppelin’s last studio album, In Throughout the Door in 1979. The drummer, John Bonham died on September 25, 1980 from alcohol poisoning while rehearsaling for a tour. I thought Fool in the Rain was the best song off of the album besides All of My Love. The first two songs on the album, In the Evening and South Side Saurez was good too as well.
I love that song so so much! But my favorite Led Zeppelin song is Kashmir. I am a huge Led Zeppelin fan!
@Mary Burrell
I maybe young but Michael Jackson is my most favorite artist of all time and I am always looking up songs by him that people have never heard of.
I love Queen as well. My favorite Queen song is Bohemian Rhapsody. I love the Classics so much!
LikeLike
I like old school R&B as well such as Whitney Houston, Shalamar, Debarge, Earth, Wind and Fire, etc.
I don’t think newer R&B like Rihanna and Beyonce could compare to Whitney, Aretha and even Motown. Motown had some amazing hits back in the day!
LikeLike
And where do you think blacks got their music? The music that the Brits ‘copied and changed a bit’. All the blues are is European folk songs copied and changed a bit by blacks.
you also don’t mention the evolution of white rock, that by the late 60’s mostly bore no comparison to black music and was a completely white art form.
LikeLike
“Rhinestone Cowboy” is good.
I like Led Zeppelin and The Who, but they are British. I like Jimi Hendrix but he is black.
The only White American artist I like well enough where I would want more than one of their albums is Bruce Springsteen from the 1970s and early 1980s. Bob Dylan and Elvis are probably better but I never got into them. I was into Norah Jones at one point. if you count her as white, and used to play 4 Non-Blondes to death. I never cared for Eminem. Or country music. As it turns out most of the rock I like is British.
As far as I can tell the best popular music in the English-speaking world over the past 50 years or so has been American soul music from like 1965 to maybe 1976. British rock from the same period gets an honourable mention. All other periods and genres are not as consistently good, despite the Lauryn Hills and so on that pop up now and then.
I understand that is a highly subjective statement but since that is a bit before my time I think there is some truth to it. Also because most of the music in question has its roots in popular Black American music and that is when the black-owned music industry was at its height. Shortly after the white record companies cherry picked the best talent and gave us disco. It has never been the same since.
LikeLike
@ Brengunn
What are you talking about? Right in the post I said:
LikeLike
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/aretha-franklin39s-career-is-reborn
People should know that Aretha Frankin recorded some of her greatest hits like Respect with the Muscle Shoals rhythm section, mostly white players from Alabama
Glad you qualified the last fifty years, Abagond, because white musicians from the 20’s to the 50’s were much better musicians than the white musicians who came after with rock..they knew much more about swing and more sophisticated chord changes, how to improvise. Fred Astair out classes most any of these white artists
Brenngun, you have it extactly backwards , its the other way around, the black Ameican musicians created the foundation and all these other influences from Europe then came in on top…and filtered through the blues..most of these white artists mentioned here are just bad copies of black American music…I sure wouldnt put Bruce Springsteen on the box instead of James Brown
this really all does tie in with the body of knowledge I have been talking about…how it gets supressed, watered down, buried, yet, copied into abherational forms…
The Brits dont have a dance ethic, they are always way behind the black Ameican artists, their white rock musicians were better than the white American rock musicians because they knew more about blues, but, they couldnt even grasp James Brown or the sophistication of Smokey Robinson back then…except for a guy like Tom Jones…but, he sure couldnt front like James Brown, but he could sing..you had Brits like John Mcglauclin in jazz who really did take it somewhere with his integration with Indian concepts
But, the better white Brit musicians going into rock and roll, is like having the better players go into a kindergarden music…I mean how far can you take it?..there are cuts from groups like Led Zepilin that can get down, but, it was great musicians playing a simple idiom like rock, it sure was better than the Beach Boys, Mommas and Poppas , Jefferson Airplane and a lot of the other American rock groups…but, compared to Respect?
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM-gSeBjKk8)
to really get “soul” , a white musician has to go the extra mile, and not just copy, when you really have it , it comes from inside
I always thought Dave Sanbourne was a really soulful player
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5mDDD2_I94)
this drummer was on a huge amount of studio dates and along with incredible black Ameican drummer, Harvey Mason, they kind of are the reason they invented the drum machines…there time was so perfect and in the pocket, music producers got tired of white rock musicians rushing or dragging their time and fills
Steve Gadd and Harvey totaly changed the face face of pop drumming
LikeLike
@Abagond,
What are you talking about? Right in the post I said:
“In the middle 1960s rock was still a white form of black music, but then in the late 1960s The Who and other bands started to change rock into something very different.”
Fair enough, you did say that but you said it alongside other contradictory statements and plain falsehoods.
You don’t acknowledge the importance of white music to black musicians, though. It is true that the Southern blues music which inspired young Brits in the late fifties, was itself a black form of European folk. With many songs surviving in bastardized form but still traceable back to Europe, St.James Infirmary being a prime example.
You also do some delusional mental gymnastics to categorize ‘gangsta’ rap as white. That’s a complete joke.
LikeLike
@B.R.,
they kind of are the reason they invented the drum machines…there time was so perfect and in the pocket, music producers got tired of white rock musicians rushing or dragging their time and fills
You know nothing about the history of music.
LikeLike
It is true that the Southern blues music which inspired young Brits in the late fifties, was itself a black form of European folk.
Yes, the poor white man will never get the ‘credit’ he so richly deserves! If I had a violin I’d start playing it.
You know nothing about the history of music.
Let the games conmmence sirrahs, let the comedy ensue!!!
LikeLike
@bulanik The obvious influence of american bands from the british invasion of the sixties and seventies would be “Beatles”, “The Rolling Stones”, “The Who”, “Eric Clapton with Yardbirds, and Cream, and Derrick and the Dominoes” “Led Zeppelin”, “Black Sabbath”, “Rod Stewart with Jeff Beck… Rod Stewart with faces” “David Bowie”, “The Clash” “Yes”, “Judas Priest”, “The Sex Pistols”….. I could go on and on from the top of my head.
“Journey” on the other hand I sure has influence from these bands but collectively they have their own sound.
LikeLike
^^^^continued. You could look at alot of hair bands from the 80s and the Zeppelin influence is so obvious. “Whitesnake”, “Bon Jovi” “Slaughter” “Tesla” …..”Skid Row” had an original sound but you could still hear alot of Zeppelinesqe (just made up a word) influence in the drums and guitars and vocals. Even going into the nineties with bands like “clutch” (sabbath written all over their sound) or “The Black Crows” (I hear alot of Rolling Stones influence)
“Motley Crue” was pretty original as was “Guns and Roses”
LikeLike
I thought “The Ramones” were better than “The Clash” and “The Sex Pistols”… Early “Green Day” was heavily “Ramones” influenced. The Ramones are from NYC if I’m not mistaken.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff8UwvPK0G4)
LikeLike
@Brengunn:
It is true that the Southern blues music which inspired young Brits in the late fifties, was itself a black form of European folk.
I think I know what you are on about(no-one else does). This song encompasses all that you discussed. Hold on for a sec; It is a true almagamation of differing European music styles amongst the inbred hillbillies of the Hills(the hills have eyes, great movie, gave me a comprehensive understanding of the perils of inbreeding). Anywho, here’s the ‘song’:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jBF1dcTlcM)
LikeLike
^^^^^^^ The point of the piano cover by “vkgoeswild” on youtube(who is excellent by the way… you should check out some of her other covers) is because sometimes Axl Rose’s screeming got in the way of absolute talent. If you strip his melodies down like this they are absolutely beautiful.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ChVJTZzHf7I&feature=endscreen)
LikeLike
lol ha ha ha Herneith…. Now we know how you feel isn’t that what you guys call “derailing”
LikeLike
@Herneith,
I’m not looking for ‘credit’ for the white man. I’m merely pointing out that music is circular and didn’t begin in the Mississippi delta circa 1920. Abagond claims ownership of authenticity while relegating white music to an inferior copy that is without emotion. That’s clearly absurd and based on his emotions about white people rather than an honest appraisal of the music.
Let the games conmmence sirrahs, let the comedy ensue!!!
Did you read the comment I was responding to? ‘Drum machines were made because white drummers can’t keep time’. Saying that in any music circles would have you laughed out of the room.
LikeLike
@Herneith,
You’re so witty!
Here’s a video that encompasses black talent for lyricism and emotional content.
(http://youtu.be/D08TG1HYJSg)
LikeLike
Bulanik… I should have emphasized imo… Not a competition. There is alot of bands including the beatles that started out sounding like Motown and Elvis then started to have their own identity. They influenced people you would never think like Ozzy and Kiss, who have a distinct sound from other artists.
Some of the members of Journey used to play with Carlos Santana and their original singer was more of the same imo. Steve Perry was a breath of fresh air and it didn’t sound like he was trying to sound black or british. I sounded like he was comfortable in his own skin.
LikeLike
case in point (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP8_Dbvpi-A)
LikeLike
Here’s a question for some non partial abagond blog followers…. David Lee Roth…. or Sammy Hagar? The two different singers of Van Halen.
Here’s Dave from the mega platinum album 1984 (1984)(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegvworoMX4)
or…Sammy from 5150 album (1986)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ3p6MXLs-0)
LikeLike
more Van Halen….. David Lee Roth Dancing in the street
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CAHDI_vkSs)
Sammy….. Why can’t this be love?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfk89hBNO9g)
LikeLike
David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar have very different voices, and the featured two songs are of different types…
That said (and though I’m not a Van Halen fan),based on those songs, I prefer Sammy Hagar.
LikeLike
“Dave@ Here’s a question for some non partial abagond blog followers…. David Lee Roth…. or Sammy Hagar?”
David Lee Roth hands down…true showman and singer…made Van Halen worth watching (Eddie is overrated)
LikeLike
Fiamma… I agree. I’m a fan of both… and I wish they could put egos aside and have a tour with both singers. Because they have different styles Sammy can’t do the old Dave songs as good and now that Dave is back with the band he can’t do Sammy songs hardly at all. It probably won’t ever happen and if it ever does they will be too old by then. Eddie Van Halen is an ego maniac as well so it’s not just the singers fault.
LikeLike
The best band I ever saw live is Ozzy at ozzfest 2000 with Zakk Wylde on guitar and Mike Bordin from “Faith no more” on drums. It’s funny how you can’t understand ozzy when he talks and his voice is crystal clear when he sings. lol.
LikeLike
I had pit passes at the E center in Camden NJ. (It’s now called the Susquehanna bank center). It’s an indoor/outdoor amphitheater with seating and a field area. The “Pit” is closer than the seats so you fight for position. I was three heads back from the stage and Ozzy got in this Millennium Falcon style gunner seat hooked up to a fire hose. I started jumping up and down because this was august in 90 degree weather. … Ozzy saw me jumping and started laughing HA HA HA HA HA. it was a direct hit… I got soaked by the hose and loved it.
LikeLike
Here’s a british band influenced by “The Doors”.. a role reversal. “The Cult”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgPvRSAdK6o)
LikeLike
By the way @ Bulanik my favorite musical act period is “U2”. I think they are better than the beatles and the stones combined. It’s a matter of opinion. Has nothing to do with some of my ancestors are from Ireland. I just think they have the best song catalog of any group ever. I was going all american because that was the topic of the post. I wouldn’t normally make any distinction between american and british rock and pop.
The transition between these two songs is magical. Check it out.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=F3e2f4bzumY)
LikeLike
Frank (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egY8rUpxqcE)
Neil Diamond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vhFnTjia_I)
admit it or no Barry Manilow..(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK8-gZVkYsk)
Billy Joel..(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0)
LikeLike
Brengunn , I was there in New York , on the studio scene when the whole drum machine thing came in…and it was bad time from white drummers in rock bands signed by labels to make big time records with producers , who had to deal with the bad time by these garage bands..soon it just made more sence, if these producors couldnt get Harvey Mason or Steve Gadd, they would just use a drum machine.
You are like the average white rock player who has no idea of the foundation of the music he is playing…and playing really badly
Rock music is the absolute bottom of the list of Afro diasporic influenced grooves ,as far as syncopation, buoyancy, sophistication etc….In spite of having the properties of Afro diasporic foundations, it veers off into heavy handed plodding ,kindergarden versions,substituting loudnes instead of real power based on pollyrhtyms,syncopation and beats that are meant to be hooked up with specific dance moves, in most cases, modern jazz being the exception..how could anyone pick rock in the 60’s over James Brown, Smokey Robinson, Martha and the Vandelas, Fontela Bass, Gladys Knight and the Pips, Stevie Wonder, Earth Wind and Fire (ok early 70’s, it even gets thicker then),etc etc etc..
Seriously, all those European folk melodies and classical harmonies, were sliced and diced from their original intentions and made slaves to the foundation that black American musicians created…the table is seriously Afro diasasporic and those European influences set on top of the foundation…black Americans took instruments made for the classical music orchestra pit and aplied new techniques never before dreamed of by the inventors of those instruments..like how to aproach stand up bass, or saxaphone,trumpet, snare drum etc..and it was happening all over the Americas where ever slaves were brought from Africa, bringing their body of knowledge with them, even after having their culture stripped and banned from them.
Gees, Dave, your killing me here, invoking my gag reflex with all these rock groups…but Id take Dave Lee Roth…those Van Halens could play some guitar and drums
LikeLike
OK then… if I’m killing you with the American rockers and you want to talk about drummers then I’ll venture north to Canada. The drummer from “Rush” might be the best of all times. Neil Peart.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lpVjXwAfm0)
LikeLike
Oh yeah Slayer and Tool have some excellent technical musicians. More on the Dark side of the force like the sith lords. As dark and evil as some of their songs are respectively it is a release for alot of frustrated kids out there, which can be a positive for all the outcast metal fans out there. They get their frustrations out through the music. Some people don’t understand that.
LikeLike
My favorite “Metal” group of all is “Iron Maiden” (sure you know they are british) There is a cover band out there called “Iron Maidens” all girls. They are almost as good as the original and it is very technical difficult songs to play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebvpPtebaI)
LikeLike
off the top of my head top 10 american rock bands..
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
Van Halen
Journey
Metallica
REM
The Doors
The Ramones
Boston
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Guns and Roses
No particular order just the first 10 I thought of.
LikeLike
@dave
“Oh yeah Slayer and Tool have some excellent technical musicians. More on the Dark side of the force like the sith lords. As dark and evil as some of their songs are respectively it is a release for alot of frustrated kids out there, which can be a positive for all the outcast metal fans out there.”
I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I think your opinion is outdated by about 10 years. A lot of kids got introduced to metal or some ‘-core’ genre through bands like Tool or Slayer, but by current standards these bands are very accessible, melodic, light and almost mainstream. They don’t really represent modern ‘dark’ music and not just in terms of heaviness, anger/angst or speed. There is stuff that’s a lot more experimental and atmospheric too. They are to heavy music what Sade is to jazz. Most people who know metal wouldn’t consider these bands as particularly dark or evil. I think they would call Tool ‘hard rock’, too. Also, kids don’t really listen to this kind of stuff anymore. Metalcore and other post-hardcore styles seem to be much more popular amongst teens new to heavy music.
LikeLike
@B.R,
The drum machine was invented in the 1930’s. It was not invented because whites can’t keep time. It was invented because the advent of electricity made it’s invention possible.
Those drummers you mention are renowned for their steady time, and blacks in general have better ‘rhythm’ than whites but click tracks weren’t the preserve of white bands alone, black bands also used them.
Rock music is the absolute bottom of the list of Afro diasporic influenced grooves ,as far as syncopation, buoyancy, sophistication etc…
That statement could easily be turned inside out when it comes to R&B and the sophistication of melodies.
…the table is seriously Afro diasasporic and those European influences set on top of the foundation
Blacks didn’t invent 4/4 time, they just popularised it.
black Americans took instruments made for the classical music orchestra pit and aplied new techniques never before dreamed of by the inventors of those instruments.
True, and I’m eternally grateful to them.
P.S, If you don’t mean click tracks and mean actual drum machine drumming on a rock record from the 70’s, please give examples.
LikeLike
@B.R
“…and it was bad time from white drummers in rock bands signed by labels to make big time records with producers , who had to deal with the bad time by these garage bands..soon it just made more sence, if these producors couldnt get Harvey Mason or Steve Gadd, they would just use a drum machine….”
And this…
“…Seriously, all those European folk melodies and classical harmonies, were sliced and diced from their original intentions and made slaves to the foundation that black American musicians created…the table is seriously Afro diasasporic and those European influences set on top of the foundation…black Americans took instruments made for the classical music orchestra pit and applied new techniques never before dreamed of by the inventors of those instruments..like how to approach stand up bass, or saxophone,trumpet, snare drum etc..and it was happening all over the Americas where ever slaves were brought from Africa, bringing their body of knowledge with them, even after having their culture stripped and banned from them…”
I will admit you make the most sense when it comes to talking about the history and historical influences of African Diasporic music and culture.
What we have come to know and appreciate as Western popular music has it roots directly in this “culture of the slaves”, Which of course includes Rock music too.These facts are so easily overlooked and clouded in a world seeped in white supremacist logic and thought.
LikeLike
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/97429-rockin-rock-songs-drum-machines.html
are you testing me,Brengunn ? I didnt say the 70’s, the linn drum really started to come into its own in the 80’s
I dont mean when the first one was invented, i mean when it seriously became a producers tool , and that invention is the Linn drum machine, and , they were using it because of inspiration by those drummers I mentioned, and the act of using studio drummers to substitute for the rock band’s drummer goes all the way back to the Beatles (“All Together, Right Now, Over me”, was a studio drummer, Ringo couldnt play that funky) and before , they used studio drummers on the first Monkees records etc , even back to Hal Blaines time… . Rock drummers didnt have good time so they would bring in studio drummers to do better and that led to the Linn drum machine, and especialy when rock was influenced by dance beats…
Of course, after dance music took off , and hip hop, the technology in the studio made it easiar to just program drum parts, so, lots of pop music, black and white, in the last decade with pro tools, is more the norm.
Sorry , you all, those rock drummers could not step on the stage with great jazz musicains and handle themselves in an up bop blues at all, unless they were jazz drummers before like Steve Smith of Journey… and, Charlie Watts and Ginger Baker, considered themselves jazz drummers first, and other rock drummers have started out in jazz also, but, I guarentee, they couldnt even handle the groove someone like Mccoy Tyner could do…dont you get that ? They cant even get on the stage to hang with the up groove they are playing if it is an up bop …most rock drummers cant play latin beats at all (Santana ended up using mostly jazz drummers), unless they had jazz training…only jazz drummers have a chance to handle latin beats , but , there are exceptions
I went to a drum clinic with mike portnoy and elvin jones,portnoy had a million drums and a mic on everything that was near his kit, he was loud and heavy handed , Elvin had no mics and filled the room with pollyrhythms and wiped portnoy out… that Danny Carey solo from the first one is exactly what I dont want to sound like, jumping back and forth from 6 to 5 and way too cerebral…
sorry Ill take a monster bop drummer over Neil Peart any day
that song was horrible, you have to be kidding me
Yeah, Kwamla, I guess that is where I make more sence
LikeLike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinnDrum
Just as I said, the Linn came in in the 80’s, influenced by the great time of drummers like Mason and Gadd who did great work in the 70’s. Rock drumming was all over the place back then , when the demand for rock to get more of a steady beat, to catch up with the dance grooves, rock is always late and never followed the great funk and rhythm and blues dynamics, they had to start using machines that imitated Gadd and Mason to get the grooves lined up…
Just look at some of the rock bands who used the Linn drum machine, Freddie Mercury, Def Leopard, Velvet Underground, Bruce Springsteen etc
You really have to realise that black Americans always led the way with American music
You can go back to the first recordings in America, its a white jazz band that was copying black jazz musicians and they got the date and the money and said black Amercans had nothing to do with jazz…obviously a trend that never went away…white people copying black music with their own abherations and making the money…
All the dances and beats that came out of the roaring twenties were black Ameican dances and beats….the Swing Era was mostly white big bands cashing in on black American ideas…its been said that these white popular big bands were just copying Loius Armstrong licks and making them into arragements…
Louis Armstrong influenced pretty much every popular singer that came after him, and he was a greater trumpeter and copied also at that…Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennet, Sarah Vaughn,Peggy Lee, etc all say they owe their style to Louis Armstrong…talk about changing American music
All the great dances of the swing era and before like Lindy Hop, Tap Dancing, Charleston,Black Bottom, Shag, etc etc all were black American dances that whites were flocking to.Again, the whites made most of the big money copying black music and dance
Then came one of the highest leval of music in American history, Bebop and modern jazz, with Charlie Parker, Dizzy Guilespie, Miles, later Trane…white Western Universiteis are studying their music all over the world and will be into the next century becuase it has so much depth…these universities may not be getting it right , but they are studying the music
AFter that, because of blues and boogie woogie , 8 to the bar, the rock and roll of Chuck Berry and Little Richard comes on the scene and is the foundation of rock and roll…the whole back beat thing, is old black Ameican rock…everytime you hear a back beat in the world, its black American rock and blues that led into rhythm and blues and soul music
and, then James Brown come along and changes the whole beat and invents funk music, after that, Gamble and Huff bring in the PHilly Sound that predates disco four on the floor, the beats that dominate the house electric music that is now one of the stronger idioms out there today
I mean, every step in the developement of American music is built on the foundation of black American culture and invention and innovation
every step…..then you got even more grandiose, the huge huge amount of bland poppish white American music since the beginning which , an outstanding amount of it is pure crap…with some notable exceptions
do you remember Rudy Valee? The Elvis / Beatles/ of his day…yeah, I thought so, not many people do…he was just another example of white bland music that got the big popular push, but was pretty shallow and no body really can study it now because it just doensnt have the depth that Louis Armstrong has
who is the Rudy Valee of today?
LikeLike
4/4 is duple meter and the Afro diaspora from below the Sahara from ancient Africa invented duple triple meter
they were the first people on the planet to put together grooves and they came up with a formula that roars down on us all the way into today with a force that is deafening
LikeLike
@B. R.
“I went to a drum clinic with mike portnoy and elvin jones,portnoy had a million drums and a mic on everything that was near his kit, he was loud and heavy handed , Elvin had no mics and filled the room with pollyrhythms and wiped portnoy out… that Danny Carey solo from the first one is exactly what I dont want to sound like, jumping back and forth from 6 to 5 and way too cerebral…”
Do you think your taste in music is objective? That you can determine what is good music and what isn’t?
LikeLike
@B.R,
I have read many musical biographies of The Beatles(I’m a fan) and never has it been said that Ringo didn’t drum on ‘Come Together’. That’s a falsehood. Go listen to ‘Tomorrow never Knows’ from the Revolver album and tell me he can’t drum. The first couple of Beatles recordings they had a session drummer but that was because the previous drummer to Ringo was inferior. When Ringo joined, the producer didn’t like his drumming either because his style was so idiosyncratic, but he came round pretty quickly. You’re right though, he may not be technically gifted but he is distinct and I happen to like his drumming a great deal.
The Monkees were a corporate creation from the beginning, their managers had complete control over their output and input. The Wrecking Crew were signed on to record their music(they also recorded Beach Boys, Mamas and Papas, they recorded for loads of bands). And, they were nearly all white, including the drummers of which Hal Blaines was the leader. The Muscle Shoals rhythm section was also white.
I tend to agree with you that rock drummers couldn’t hold their own with Jazzers. Rock drumming can be a bit leaden and repetitive, quite boring. But there is some great rock drumming, maybe not subtle enough for a black mans ears but I love it, e.g Led Zeppelin(defo not subtle), Joy Division, Talking Heads, etc.
I also have to disagree with you about why the drum machine was so popular in the 80’s. There may have been bad drummers it covered for but mostly it was used because it was the latest musical fad. It was mostly used by pop stars rather than rock bands.
Blacks have made major contributions to popular music, that’s not in doubt. But what have whites done? Well, made rock music(not blues), Heavy metal, Punk, pioneered studio techniques and multi-tracking, created electronic music etc.
Every time the black/white music debate comes up, white music gets slandered as a soulless facsimile while black music sits on a pedestal of authenticity. It’s just not true, you’ve had plenty of shite, too.
BTW, Jazz is too busy for my taste, though ‘Kind of Blue’ is a masterpiece.
LikeLike
Here B.R,
This is an example of white music that is wholly European. Truly pioneering and much copied. Every instrumentation is original from the drums to the industrial guitar, great bass line and the lyrics ain’t too shabby, either.
It may not be to your taste, it’s probably a bit maudlin for black people but we miserable whites love it.
(http://youtu.be/5AqeqAQ1ILI)
LikeLike
From this point forward please put YouTube links inside of parentheses. This thread is loading too slowly due to all the embedded videos.
LikeLike
@Brengunn
”Every time the black/white music debate comes up, white music gets slandered as a soulless facsimile while black music sits on a pedestal of authenticity. It’s just not true, you’ve had plenty of shite, too.”
I see your point but I don’t entirely agree with you. Mainstream ”White American music” was influenced by Black artists and musicians. If it wasn’t for Black artists, ”White American music” wouldn’t be the way it is now. Look, I am not trying to slander ”White music” but you see, Rock music was created by Black people but Elvis Presley got credit because he was more ”marketable” at the time. The Rock music you enjoy was started by Blacks! No, I am not trying to discredit Elvis or any White rocker at all. My favorite Rock band is Led Zeppelin.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as ”Black music” or ”White music”. I know that there is a type of music that Blacks listen to more often such as R&B and Hip Hop and Reggae and there is music that Whites listen to more often such as Rock and Country music.
And there are people like me who listen to both ”Black” and ”White” music. I listen to Led Zeppelin as much as I listen to Whitney Houston and it is not considered culturally acceptable for me to listen to Led Zeppelin.
LikeLike
Joy Division I saw a movie about Ian Curtis I think he was the one with the epileptic seizures. It was pretty depressing. But I stayed the course and watched the movie all the way through.
LikeLike
@Bulanik,
It seems to be de rigueur to make sweeping generalisations about race here, so I was merely conforming to fashion.
LikeLike
He was also being prescribed heavy doses of barbiturates, which we now know make people want to jump in front of buses. The medical professions understanding of epilepsy back then was not very advanced.
LikeLike
@Bulanik,
I do hate when people put down present musicians and go on about the past in music and how good it was but ,Jesus, that was a stellar time for British indie. Think of all the landmark stuff that was being done, I wish I could be broke as fuck in Manchester circa 1978. Ah well….
Do you like Talk Talk, Bulanik?
LikeLike
Oh, that Moby album was a fave when it came out. Still had a copy of it up until recently when it got lost, somehow. Even all the car ads didn’t dint it’s playability(no pun intended).
LikeLike
@Adeen,
The Rock music you enjoy was started by Blacks!
I’m not denying blacks a major role in the genesis of popular music, perhaps the major role. My original comments were about the formation of the blues in the Mississippi Delta and the European influences on melody that were reworked with black rhythms into the superior ‘delta blues’. I then talked about how British musicians took that black music combined it with European influences like ‘music hall’ and ‘skiffle’ to make an almost exclusively white art form called ‘rock’.
BTW, I love a lot of both white and black music but I’m afraid to share it here because I know people will think I’m some kind of black wannabe.
@Legion,
the statement itself is a stereotype based on race.
You’re right, it is.
LikeLike
@Brengunn: Why would people label you a black wannabe. If you like black music and white music that’s cool. If you have been paying any attention to the various commenters here mine especially, I’m African American and enjoy lots of genres of music. Legion and Bulainik and Adeen can tell you how I like lots of white artist. It’s old stuff but I like alternative and garage bands. I think that’s weird that you think you would be labeled a black wannabe.
LikeLike
The 2007 movie Control was about Ian Curtis of Joy Division. Yes It was a pretty depressing movie but it let me see who this young man was and his struggle with epilepsy and his tumultuous marriage and all the sadness he was consumed with. I didn’t know anything about this group but it was something new to learn about.
LikeLike
@Brengunn
I wouldn’t label you a ”Black wannabe” based on the Black artists you like. People can like whatever type of music they like. You aren’t a Black wannabe.
@Mary Burrell
I am Black American of Caribbean descent and I like alot of White artists as well and alot of Rockers too but your comment really summed it up for me.
LikeLike
I like Rockabilly/Psychobilly music. I really do.
LikeLike
@ SomeGuy; Long time no see. Good to see your commentary.
LikeLike
@eco… slayer is pretty dark and evil. Listen to the song “Dead skin mask”, “Angel of death”, “South of Heaven”, “Skeletons of society” … just to name a few. It’s like “Black Sabbath” on Lance Armstrong steroids. . “Tool” falls somewhere in between hard rock and metal there is almost an industrial beat in there. Not your typical “Hard Rock” like “ACDC” is the quintessential hard rock type band. “The Who” and “Van Halen” would be other bands that could easily fall into that wide category. But “Tool” is more like industrial metal. You could kind of put them in their own category I’ve really never heard anything else that sounds like them. But make no mistake the sound and lyrics come from a very dark place. I don’t go out of my way to listen to them much for that reason. But as far as technical ability I agree they are very talented.
LikeLike
At eco continued. I don’t believe it’s outdated that kids “use” the metal genre as a release still. My nephew is 19 and he’s all about “Slayer” and “Iron Maiden” and “Metallica”….. Look at Adeen , she’s all into Zeppelin as a teenager and their first album came out in 1968. I was into Zeppelin big time as a teenager in the early nineties as well, there were some that were calling that “outdated” then and that was 20 years ago, and they are still pulling new fans. There is some music that has proved to be timeless…. That’s why they call it “Classic Rock”. Just like people still can listen to Mozart hundreds of years later….
LikeLike
The bottom line is, white American musicians need to master BeBop and James Brown funk, for me to respect them…they have to go to the highest levals of black American music and worship at those altars..
We white Americans need to look in the mirror and just admit the truth that we are emulating Afro diasporic principles and concepts in most all of our culture (i said most all, not all) .
At least our ancestors knew they were doing black face and mimicking black Americans..at least they were honest about it
So, what happens is, in rock, white Americans look at the simplest forms of black American music, rural blues , for example, take a small slice of it and mimic it .At that point , they are getting a kindergarden interpretaion of this great body of knowledge that came from West Africa, and is part of that force I have mentioned many times on here. They dont even know what they are getting , they only know that it gets them in touch with some kind of feeling, they dont know it but its the process of putting together call responce rhythms and melodies made for dances, for the most part, not always, and how it starts to turn off their thinking brain and get in touch with intuition and feeling.
They arnt really understanding the depth or value that it really means, they turn it into entertainment and abheration, putting white concepts on top ,like over arranging, too many kicks taking away the groove importance, turning up the volume to mask not much knowledge,and , instead of really going the extra effort to seek out the more advanced black American forms , like bop or James Brown funk, they mimic and copy and do thier patronising version of what they think a black person is
If they only go after jazz, like in the universities, they get obsessed with it, and start putting western values on it, reading it and transcribing it all on the paper, and they never really acknowledge what those principles are, and the white people in jazz forgot what groove is all about , so they need some James Brown funk
It seems to me the white rockers never really wanted to go to bop because that was the higher leval of black American intellect and superiour knowledge of music, and they would have to go the extra mile and , couldnt just mimic and copy it , they would actualy have to get some more in depth understanding of the knowledge and emulate it instead of just mimic it…and then James Brown will take them back to the deep groove with more sophisticated blues harmonies…those early Ja mes Brown bands considered themselves jazz musicians
LikeLike
And that is the white musicians that know they are mimicing black Afro diasporic music
Look how many white Americans are in complete denial about where these concepts are coming from…hades, the universities who are suposed to be teaching us about the history of jazz, dont even know what these concepst are…they cant address them with any sence of reality or insight
But, a lot of white rockers dont even know they are playing black concepts
I said “culture” above, in this case on this thread I definitly mean American music and dance culture, just to clarify
And, many white Americans have no idea with the music coming at them all day every day from the media, have no idea how black American innovations carved out the foundations for the musics they are listening to or hearing in the background of their movies, comercials and ambiant music
I had an argument with a really good musician on a music blog, I battle for these concepts in my daily profesional life in a big way all the time.And he tried to say, in jazz, that it is black innovated but we shouldnt forget the other half…meaning the compositions that many great white composers (think tin pan alley like Legion has mentioned) brought to jazz, from Cole Porter, the Gershwins, Irving Berlin, etc. I said of course these are some great composers and they brought wonderful songs to the American song book…yet, they wrote their songs to fit into the grooves that was black American jazz, it was the huge craze in american at that time and black dances were all the rage in the roaring 20’s…
But, great black American song writers were writing fantastic songs since the beginning of jazz and all the way up to today..you could take away all the white musicians and musics they wrote, for sure a lot of great people, but, jazz would still be firmly intact…it could stand alone as black American culture…you could say the same for funk and hip hop…this is heavy stuff for white people to grasp, actualy for anyone to grasp , because we really have been brainwashed about it
you have to get way past pop music to really start scratching the surface, and, as an Ameican, I suggest looking south, to the Caribean and Brazil for huge examples of how the same dynamic played out in thier popular musics…then you really start to get an education about this dynamic…and it is even bigger than that, you really have to start hooking up youtubes with those differant ethnic groups in the “sub Sahara Africa music and dance” wiki I brought in, to start to see where these concepts came from and how then in the Americas , the musics of the colonisers and native Americans, was then brought on top of the foundation clearly set by the absolutly powerful concepts brought to us by the first humans to evovle on the planet….it really is that deep…coming to us from a long ways away froma a long long time ago…the first steps of the genius of mankind…coming down into the present, dominating the world with its force and depth of knowldege
LikeLike
@Legion,
Do you see your projection as clearly as you see your stereotype?
Pop psychology 101.
That’s a rhetorical query, what is more important to me is that the others see it. Thank you for the demonstration.
You’re so self important, Legion.
I have read several threads on this blog that lampoon ‘well meaning’ whites for trying to get ‘blackness’ or for expressing their colour blindness with a love for black culture.
Don’t tell me what I think.
LikeLike
@Mary Burrell & Adeen,
Yes, it’s impossible not to like both black and white music,of course that’s true. I mentioned in above posts black music I like and I like a lot of it. That’s not what I was talking about, really.
I was hinting at white people who are overly demonstrative in their love for black music as a way to show they are egalitarians. Now, if I started talking about ‘What’s Going On’ for example, I’d probably stray into territory that could be confused with that, I like the album so much.
LikeLike
@Bulanik,
Psychobilly is the Cramps, you know,
I’m a human fly and I don’t know why,
I got 96 tears in my 96 eyes.
I got a garbage brain that’s drivin’ me insane,
And I don’t like your ride, so push that pesticide
And baby I won’t care, ’cause baby I don’t scare
‘Cause I’m a reborn maggot using germ warfare. Rockin’ Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Good stuff, in small doses.
I’m not sure how come you missed the commentary on this thread which clearly shows that black people clearly listen to, enjoy, care about, and understand music produced by white people.
I only read the OP and skipped to the bottom of the comments, but as I said above, that’s not what I was talking about.
I know Talk Talk are from the South, I just mentioned them cause they’re great. That song you mention was on GTA Vice City. Really good song but their beat stuff is on ‘Spirit of Eden’. I would say it’s more Euro jazz than reggae.
LikeLike
@Bulanik,
You should go back to ‘Spirit of Eden’, it’s majestic, it’s soaring, it’s tender and touching, it’s a supreme work of beauty.
Unlike ‘The Cramps’, who sound like they’ve just crawled out of a dumpster, where they were probably masturbating or torturing small animals or both. Either way, you know they’re deviants! Here, have a listen,
(http://youtu.be/9TR6QuOj-Gw)
I didn’t know Talk Talk’s rhythm section were ex-reggae lads.’The Colour of Spring’ was a transitional album for them though, the next two albums done away with the rock template altogether, as you said.
LikeLike
@B.R,
Have you ever read the novel ‘Twelve Bar Blues’ by Patrick Neate? Absolutely cracking tale about the African diaspora and the formation of Jazz in New Orleans. If you’ve not read it, try get hold of a copy, I think you’ll like it.
It’s fictional, but it’s historical fiction, so it weaves some real life events in there. Anyone else read it?
LikeLike
@B.R.
”We white Americans need to look in the mirror and just admit the truth that we are emulating Afro diasporic principles and concepts in most all of our culture (i said most all, not all) .”
Well said. I am glad someone actually sees it the way I do and I am an African American of Caribbean(Jamaican) descent.
@Dave
I agree. Classic Rock is timeless and it is will be pulling in more new fans. I will raise my children when I have them on Classic Rock such as Led Zeppelin, Queen, AC/DC and Michael Jackson.
Would Michael Jackson’s be classifed as Pop or R&b? I wonder
LikeLike
Whoa there B.R. Hip Hop wouldn’t be the same without the “Beastie Boys” and there was a time when “Classic Rock” was heavily sampled by hip hop artists.
I’ve said this before, but Jazz wouldn’t be the same without Les Paul.
LikeLike
Sup, people. Yup, SomeGuy is back in the saddle…for now.
A good psychobilly song and video is My Love for Evermore by The Hillbilly Moon Explosion. I believe you can find it on the Youtubes.
LikeLike
Bruce Springsteen is cool!
LikeLike
Adeen,
Michael Jackson’s music is considered ‘Pop’. It was actually Michael who even crowned himself …”the King of Pop”.
LikeLike
Michael McDonald has a great sounding smoky tenor voice.
“Ever Changing Time”, “I Keep Forgetting”, “Real Love”, and Michael as featured in Christopher Cross’ “Ride Like the Wind” would be my favorites from this artist.
LikeLike
Jefe,
Regarding “Wichita Lineman”, there are more than just the 2 or 3 of us here who have an appreciation for that song. It’s been covered multiple times by a variety of artists (including the rock bands R.E.M and Stone Temple Pilots), was nominated as one of the 500 greatest song of all times by Rolling Stone magazine, and there are even individuals out there who claim that “Wichita Lineman” is “the Perfect Song”.
I’ve liked it since I first heard it playing on an oldies station on my car’s radio…but I’ve never been able to pinpoint just why….
LikeLike
@ Adeen: Micheal Jackson IS The King Of Pop!!! LOL!!!!!!
LikeLike
“The Offspring” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrBAYD4kmPo)
“Stone Temple Pilots” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2qoXcTqWCA)
“Pearl Jam” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbWZ8In9Ois)
“The Smashing Pumpkins” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KE9lvU810)
“Nirvana” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8)
“Soundgarden” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0_zzCLLRvE)
“Alice in Chains” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSJ3sdcO33s)
“Ugly Kid Joe” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byEGjLU2egA)
“Candlebox” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWhXyNL74yI)
“The Black Crowes” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_5U0M9ErGA)
****Just some of my favorites from the mighty nineties”******
LikeLike
Umm, lol, I retract my previous statement that Michael named himself the “King of Pop”. I’m not currently in the mood to do battle with ad hominem slinging worshipers of St Michael the Beneficent (I’ve been down that road with a couple of commenters here before).
The official story is that Michael Jackson was given the title of the King of Pop from millions of fans around the world (mail-in survey, perhaps?).
That said: it is my opinion that Michael Jackson was a genius in his craft and an astute business man. (I’ve stated elsewhere on this site that I am not one for hero worship, and I’ll leave it at that for now.)
LikeLike
Forgot about Creedence….(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu2pVPWGYMQ)
LikeLike
For the record I’m not accusing anyone on this thread of being a worshiper of MJ. They seem to pop up out of nowhere, actually….
LikeLike
“Bad Moon Rising” by Creedence Clearwater Revival is another good one.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
“Could you share some examples of what kids listen to these days? I’d be interested in the experimental and atmospheric music you mention”
You mean examples of the modern experimental and atmospheric heavy/dark music teens listen to? The majority doesn’t seem to be into it. The main trend is basically stuff that sounds like late 90s nu metal mixed with screaming vocals and breakdowns taken from hardcore punk or death metal.
I guess some people consider the hipster post-hardcore/screamo bands like La Dispute or Touche Amore to be atmospheric and emotional… They are quite popular too.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysqRwPfR5bs)
Sounds too whiny to me…
@dave
“slayer is pretty dark and evil. Listen to the song “Dead skin mask”, “Angel of death”, “South of Heaven”, “Skeletons of society” … just to name a few. It’s like “Black Sabbath” on Lance Armstrong steroids.”
I understand, but I do think the modern stuff can be much heavier and darker than Slayer. The 90s and 00s were like an arms race for the metal and ‘-core’ genres. Everything became faster, heavier and more abrasive. Even the relatively generic, supposedly accessible stuff can be much more intense than anything made before the mid 90s. The production alone makes a huge difference. You don’t have to go all the way to death metal, PV or grind to find stuff that can make most people’s ears bleed. Even the typical (average in terms of heaviness) bands make 80s metal sound like lullabies.
Stuff like this isn’t considered extremely heavy anymore:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4eO5jmSy4)
That’s pretty much the current norm for metal.
“Tool is more like industrial metal. You could kind of put them in their own category I’ve really never heard anything else that sounds like them.”
I agree. They do have a very unique sound.
“I don’t believe it’s outdated that kids ‘use’ the metal genre as a release still.”
I do not think that is outdated and I do not think that liking bands like Tool or Slayer is outdated, but in 2013 these bands don’t really represent dark and heavy music anymore. They are rather light and accessible when compared with extreme genres of music and most kids, who become metal or ‘-core’ fans these days, like other styles.
LikeLike
Personally, my #1 fave “white” band would be GWAR. I doubt they would appeal to many people, but their depraved satirical music is most satisfying.
LikeLike
@Eco
You are right
@Bulanik
As a young person of 17, I could tell you what the majority of people in my age group listen to.
Justin Bieber
One Direction
Keisha
Rihanna
Katy Perry
Nicki Minaj
Lady Gaga
Bruno Mars
Lil Wayne
2 Chainz
Tyga
Adele
Fun
Rick Ross
Pink
Honestly I don’t listen to MOST of today’s mainstream modern music myself because I don’t like MOST of today’s mainstream music particularly Justin Bieber, One Direction, Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, 2 Chainz, and Kesha and the rest of them excluding Adele, Bruno Mars, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. I love Adele. I like Katy Perry as well
The few mainstream modern singers I like are Adele, Bruno Mars, Beyonce, Jennifer Hudson, Alicia Keys, Katy Perry. I even like Lady Gaga.
I do have my reasons why I listen to so few artists of my generation. Many if not most of them lack creativity to come up with their own creative material and many of them just rely on autotune to ”sing”. I feel like music doesn’t sound as good as it used to be.
I am aware that there were bad singers back then but it seems like there are more bad and lousy singers in today’s mainstream music scene than ever before.
Because of this, I mainly listen to Michael Jackson, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Bee Gees, and old school R&B and other Classic Rock acts.
Honestly I didn’t want to sound like an old person suffering frmo nostagolic views but I can’t help but think why MOST of today’s maisntream music sucks!
LikeLike
@Bulanik
Well said. Although I like a few modern artists, BrunoMars, Adele, Katy Perry and Beyonce are about the four artists that I can listen to without getting tired or annoyed. They are that good.
”There was a time when it what more common for music to be made and songs to be written by people who were moved to do so because music simply lived in their souls, when friends would make music in a more “organic” and natural way”
Yup, that is why I listen to Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Queen, Bee Gees Elvis etc more than I listen to today’s music. My favorite Led Zeppelin song, Kashmir was inspired by Robert Plant’s travels to Morocco. Thank about inspiration right there!
LikeLike
@Bulanik,
Yeah, those Cramps are crazy. Here they are, live and dangerous…. in a mental hospital!?!?!?!
(http://youtu.be/TDvKO6qGiY0)
It’s like ‘One flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ on acid! Poor mentallers!
Hey, if you like ‘By the time I get to Phoenix’, you should look for Isaac Hayes’ version from the ‘Hot Buttered Soul’ album. It’s eighteen minutes long, with ten minutes of spoken word preamble. It’s my favorite version of that song, it’s more ballsy than Glen Cambell’s version.
LikeLike
@Adeen,
that is why I listen to Led Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, Queen, Bee Gees Elvis etc more than I listen to today’s music
All great artists, but you need to expand your horizons. Use those bands as a stepping stone into the more strange, more unknown world of alternative music, independent music, etc. There is a world of unimaginable delights hiding, waiting to be discovered.
LikeLike
@Fiamma,
Michael Jackson, King of Pop? I think it’s a euphemism!!
LikeLike
Wichita lineman is a great song, every component is stellar but if I had to pick one part that makes it great, I’d say Glenn Cambell’s voice. He had a perfect voice for that song.
LikeLike
‘And I need you more than want you
And I want you for all time
And the Wichita Lineman
is still on the line’
It doesn’t get much better than that.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
“I’ve never heard of La Dispute before, and I listened to a few tracks from them following on from the link you posted. They’re certainly intense, and their lyrics are rather complex, poetic monologues in part, which seem to be about real-life struggles, some based on introspection. I do get the sense that they are serious artists.”
This style has been around for about 10 years now. I’m pretty desensitized to it. After a while it just sounds like another trend.
There is even a hipster hip hop project that uses this vocal and lyrical style. Seriously!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI7brs4yfJo)
I guess they prefer to call themselves “spoken word”.
Do you know The Mars Volta? If you like the cleaner, more melodic elements of La Dispute’s sound and don’t mind high pitched, weird vocals you should try MV. They fuse this post-hardcore sound with prog rock, psychedelia and Latin music. The end product is closer to Rush than to most post-hardcore bands. They are generally weird and relatively hard to get into, but their sound is a rather unique mix that can be very beautiful.
It’s hard to find their songs in good quality on youtube. These are decent, but still very compressed.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg6svO2AQHw)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4FG_xZAzsQ)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybLSwRp5Q0g)
LikeLike
@Brengunn
I have tried Fun and 3 Doors down but they aren’t as good as the Classics though. Nothing beats the Classics.
I am not saying Fun, 3 Doors Down and even the Black Keys aren’t good,They are good. Yes, they make good music but I still prefer Classics.
I have tried looking into other Alternatives as well but at the end of the day, I listen to music that I am more comfortable with and more at ease with. If I don’t feel comfortable listening to the song or I am not interested in listening to it, then I am not going to listen to it.
I also like R&B such as Motown, Earth, Wind and Fire, Shalamar, Debarge, Al Green,and even Beyonce. But I have noticed that alot of today’s R&B lacks soul as well.
LikeLike
Can’t say that I am a big fan of Frank Zappa.
LikeLike
I love the Black Keys and Bruno Mars. Adele is one of my favorite female vocalist .
LikeLike
@Adeen,
Here is a couple of suggestions for you. Both bands are accessible straight away, so they’re not nuts you have to crack over several listens. The first one is ‘The Smiths’, one of my personal favorite bands. When you catch this bug, you’ll be sick with it for life!!
(http://youtu.be/DMQbzLrvwlE)
You might know this band as they’re more recent. ‘The Flaming Lips’, for me, the best band of the last 20 years, with three albums that are worthy of God. If there was a God.
(http://youtu.be/81K_uWRe344)
And if you don’t like them, there’s no hope for the youth of today!
LikeLike
Adeen: The Features are a group I like they have song called That’s How It Starts that I like, I’m sure you’ve heard it on various commercials for televison shows like Vampire Diaries. Black Motorcycle Club has a song I like called Spread Your Love. Grace Potter and The Nocturnals are very good. Neon Trees are fun.Passion Pit is is a fun group. Gin Wigmore is a very talented artist she kind of reminds me of Amy Winehouse who is still one of my favorites. Madcon had a very fun song call Begging. If you watched any of the reality dance shows like lot of the dance crews did routines of that song. They are like 70’s throwback dudes. I think they are of Carribean descent. You Tube them. their YT video Begging just sends me into peels of laughter. Emili Sandi is aa very talented and lovely artist. The song Next To Me is great. I think she is underrated and needs more exposure. Zero Seven In The Waiting Lane is a nice groove. Ceelo Greene is just fun. Even the old Gnarls Barcley stuff is fun. The song It’s A Perfect Day by the Constellations is one of my favorite YT songs from the movie Horrible Bosses. Well t hose are some of my many of many favorites from my Ipod list. The group Monsters and Men and The Lumineers are fun for me. One Republic and my girl Pink anything she does is fun. along with Katy Perry who is fun. I love Gaga. The KIllers are cool too.
LikeLike
@Brengunn
“Both bands are accessible straight away (…) The Flaming Lips”
Really? They may be accessible to people who already like similar bands, but to the general public? I don’t think so. You might as well call Sonic Youth or Swans an ‘easy listen’. To some? Sure. To most? Not really.
Out of curiosity I have to ask, which 3 albums did you mean? Soft Bulletin, Yoshimi and Clouds?
“And if you don’t like them, there’s no hope for the youth of today!”
🙂 🙂 🙂
@Bulanik
I replied to you, but the comment is in moderation (has 4 links…). It should show up above Adeen
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/04/19/white-american-music/#comment-160946
LikeLike
@eco,
You might as well call Sonic Youth an ‘easy listen’
Ah, no. Sonic Youth are a more ‘challenging’ band by far, what with all the noise and feedback etc. Still, another fave, there’s nothing like wanting to gun down shoppers at the local supermarket while listening to Silver Rocket!
TBH, I do think FL are accessible, they’re so tuneful and the lyrics are laugh out loud funny(he’s one of the best lyricists in the game). Anyway, it’s not us that’s wrong, it’s all those tasteless yobs. FL should have conquered the world but the people are too dumb recognise greatness.
Out of curiosity I have to ask, which 3 albums did you mean? Soft Bulletin, Yoshimi and Clouds?
Of course! What order do you rank them? Mine is- Clouds, Yoshimi, and then the Soft Bulletin. There are good tunes on some of the other albums, but those three are quality right the way through.
LikeLike
@Brengunn
I actually did like the links of music you posted. It was good.
”“And if you don’t like them, there’s no hope for the youth of today!””
I don’t represent all of today’s youth. lol but I did like your comment.
@Mary Burrell
Out of all of today’s mainstream artists I only like:
Beyonce(I just listened to her last night)
Adele(She is just amazing!)
Bruno Mars(Glad we have that in common. I listened to one of his albums and loved it)
Katy Perry(I am glad we both like Katy Perry)
Lady Gaga
Jennifer Hudson
Alicia Keys
Eminem
The old school artists I like:
Michael Jackson
Queen
Led Zeppelin
Beatles
Pink Floyd
Shalamar
Debarge
Earth, Wind and Fire
The Whispers
Bee Gees
LL Cool J
Baby Face
Tupac
Ozzie Osbourne
Police
Stephanie Mills
Whitney Houston
Mariah Carey
and others I can’t think of
I know there is a few good mainstream artists but the crappy artists seem to outweight the good ones.
LikeLike
@ Adeen: I think we are pretty straight and on the same page. But some of the other artist I suggested are fun. Happy listening.
LikeLike
@Eco
Can you explain to me how Rap music became mainstream and threw Rock music out of mainstream popularity? You seem to be very knowledgable at this sort of things.
LikeLike
@Brengunn
“What order do you rank them? Mine is- Clouds, Yoshimi, and then the Soft Bulletin.”
Yoshimi, Clouds, Bulletin. I do admit, I’m not a huge Flaming Lips fan, but I like them and listen to them from time to time. I agree that they should be more popular. They were releasing their strongest albums around the same time when Radiohead was peaking. Overall, that was a good time for rock bands that weren’t obviously commercial. FL deserved more exposure during that late 90s – early 00s period.
@Adeen
“Can you explain to me how Rap music became mainstream and threw Rock music out of mainstream popularity? You seem to be very knowledgable at this sort of things.”
I’ve always been into a lot of different kinds of music, including some pretty obscure stuff, and I enjoy discovering new music. I like to think that my musical taste is broader than the norm and that I’m quite open minded about music, but I’m not sure that really counts as knowledge.:)
If you would like to read about the changes American society was going through then I’m really not the right person to talk about that kind of stuff. You should ask someone who is older than me and American.
I can tell you how this looks from the global music market’s perspective. I think it was just a matter of time when Black music would be completely mainstream. White bands/performers were using a lot of things they copied from Black culture, and Black music was becoming more and more popular. Then Rap showed up and it had the right combination of qualities to be mainstream and commercial. It was music by and for young people, it was accessible and could have been used as party music too. It had its clothes and a visual style – stuff you can market.
I think stereotypes were and still are significant in a few ways, but, again, I’m not the right person to analyze that. When you ignore sociology, it seems that rap’s process of becoming more popular was inevitable and very natural.
Why Black music has remained popular? Now that’s more interesting. I think rap hasn’t really replaced rock. It’s merging with it. With every year it’s harder and harder to notice the borderlines between mainstream Black and white music. The pop/dance songs (like Nicki Minaj or Rihanna) use elements of 90s euro dance and electronic music. PBR&B is becoming a legitimate trend and the more traditional pop/soul/R&B quite often borrows melodies from rock. I’m talking about Bruno Mars, B.o.B, Cee Lo Green, etc., not the really old school stuff. Hip hop uses beats that sound like a new version of industrial rock and it’s OK for popular rappers to dress like hipsters. And finally my favorite – the supposedly satanic/masonic/illuminati (cross out the unnecessary words) dark, grotesque imagery. Especially the Kanye West videos. It’s amazing when people talk about them as if they were some completely new trend.
For example, Kanye’s “Monster” makes me think of this:
(http://vimeo.com/3612941)
I’m not trying to say that Black music is just copying everything, but there are a lot of elements that should look and sound similar, familiar to people who know white music and there is more and more of these fragments every year. That’s why I think mainstream Black music is merging with mainstream white music.
LikeLike
Beastie Boys- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpsvBvwRuf0)
LikeLike
I have read most of the comments so I’m trying to think what hasn’t been mentioned.
Hall and Oats- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Red3R17FlUQ&list=RD16nCAso76mbdI)
LikeLike
The Cars- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZA6qiJVfU)
LikeLike
Heart – (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkitLUbeEg&list=RD1641P8UxneDJE)
LikeLike
I did mention Skynyrd- here’s a good song from them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmTkKz60W8)
LikeLike
Motley crue-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nm1BJPe-pg)
LikeLike
slayer “eyes of the insane” – (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOMec-rYTbo)
now they are not all about racial harmony cf “angel of death” et al.
but I think the most overt expression i would say … organically or de sui generis of ‘white privelege’ — partially from the perspective of cocaine fueled massively rich 1970’s rockers but also they are white american from long island – blue oyster cult ‘secret treaties’ record, vis a vis ‘me262’ and ‘cagey cretins’ to some degree although the music is quite appealing to me as a ‘rocker’ there is a really negative undertone to the lyrics obviously, and of course this is basically mainstream (the album was not that good a seller for them) and not getting all ‘ein zwei drei’ about it. Which my one college roommate was good for getting drunk and blasting german death metal yeah it was time to leave the house when he was in that kind of mood.
LikeLike
I’ve seen Slayer live 3 times. Shortened sets at “Ozzfest” and “Meyhem fest” They still played alot of songs , they did them faster to get more in which is impressive as fast as their songs are already. I’m not too happy they got rid of Dave Lombardo.
LikeLike
Frankie Valli and the four seasons -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_vcwgVTUhs)
LikeLike
Benny Goodman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NigiwMtWE0)
LikeLike
Greatful Dead -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSWfgpfN3qU)
LikeLike
Ok one more….. Crosby Stills and Nash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTsVtCxq_xg)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaLtcrTlfDQ)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5uEdpIAbfU)
LikeLike
@Thomas I really dig Incubus good one.
There are tons of newer bands that can be on the list and they deserve it.
I was going to go with “Kiss” because I don’t think anyone mentioned it. But I actually liked these guys better even though they are sort of a “Kiss” ripoff.
The music video is really comical.
Twisted Sister -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRwrg0db_zY)
LikeLike
Joan Jett and the Blackhearts -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdhonK8NMm8)
LikeLike
The doobie brothers -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLf–6RJbbc)
The allman brothers -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uFD7JqkOR4)
Chicago (someone might have mentioned them I’m not sure) —(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM-XhQeFzW4)
LikeLike
Toto -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCca5mPMp9A)
LikeLike
Dion and the belmonts -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzAz-kHickw)
LikeLike
The Eagles(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-U5e78WHc)
LikeLike
Steve Miller Band-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PljkJTYt7M)
LikeLike
Iggy Pop and the Stooges -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuBU3pzy7is)
LikeLike
Porno for Pyros – Black Girlfriend
LikeLike
Prince and the Revolution — I would argue that it is more white american music even if Prince is mixed…… as opposed to Prince and the New Power Generation which I would further argue is more Black American Music based, case in point “Diamond and Pearls”
PURPLE RAIN!………..(http://www.totallyfuzzy.net/ourtube/prince/purple-rain-w-the-revolution-video_6156e84e9.html)
LikeLike
^^^^^^^^by the way his royal badness “Prince” blocks alot of vids from youtube hence the non recognizable video link. It works and is safe though. Purple rain has one of the best rock guitar solos of all time . Prince is Hendrixesce in it.
LikeLike
“Matishayu” Jewish Reggae. He did follow “Fish” around for a lot of is youth. I like his music but wonder why he does sound like Fish or the Grateful Dead which I know Fish people tend not to like but secretly probably do.
LikeLike
^^^^^Continued
Here is Prince with the New Power Generation more R&B style (http://www.mojvideo.com/video-prince-and-the-new-power-generation-diamonds-and-pearls/d9da1cdd189822df0806)
LikeLike
Legion
I think how your depicting Prince is ridiculous and insulting.
really? Now u know how we feel when people like madonna take over MJ’s memorial on mtv or when white artists like eminem r shoved down our throats in hiphop. Sucks, don’t it? or when they have an old school hip hop awards show and Blondie??? wins best old school hip hop song. get used to it.
LikeLike
Porno for Pyros – Black Girlfriend
@ Thomas Conlon, why post this particular Porno for Pyros song? That whole album was insane saw them in NYC @ The Ritz? That was many moons ago. Whole album was insane. “Pets” is probably my favorite song on the album, saw jane’s Addiction @ The Ritz also.. NYC.
LikeLike
abagondys
My father thought Elvis would never amount to much – he had heard all those songs before. But he forgot that Elvis was white, that it is about more than just the music.
Elvis was a melungeon. many say his beloved mama, Gladys, was “passing” at any rate ..
http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/story/New-DNA-Study-Claims-Elvis-Presley-May-Have/BKaqBEusa0-FpKVgvSP4Fg.cspx
LikeLike
LikeLike
Still love hearing this …
LikeLike
Why Black music has remained popular? Now that’s more interesting. I think rap hasn’t really replaced rock. It’s merging with it. With every year it’s harder and harder to notice the borderlines between mainstream Black and white music. The pop/dance songs (like Nicki Minaj or Rihanna) use elements of 90s euro dance and electronic music. PBR&B is becoming a legitimate trend and the more traditional pop/soul/R&B quite often borrows melodies from rock. I
’m talking about Bruno Mars, B.o.B, Cee Lo Green, etc., not the really old school stuff.
And that is by design, notice the disappearance of mainstream R&B, Soul and hip hop is pretty much a lost cause. The White power structure is attempting to kill off all black music here in America.As Jazz was destroyed. and replaced with jazz artists like “Kenny G”.
LikeLike
I think Ann Wilson is very underrated as a singer and her sister is a very underrated musician..
LikeLike
@Legion…. I think you are reaching for straws. Did you see Purple Rain?
LikeLike
@legion “Reaching for straws” is an expression that means guessing and hoping. Also it could mean in an argument pushing an issue when there is no actual grounds. If you were insulted I’m surprised because it is opinion. Prince played more of a contemporary 80s style rock music with the Revolution. I feel like he went away from that on his later albums. I’m baffled that you could be insulted by my opinion….. when there was no intention on my part to insult.
LikeLike
Agabond, why not just ban me now, ur precious white children r up in arms about my commentary., Instead of deleting @ their behest and really showing urself as the Uncle Ruckus type nee-groe u really r just ban me..lol.I mean ur white children r grumbling..lol.
LikeLike
soul asylum -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpiFDrFEGvE)
LikeLike
Meatloaf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez-znJzqLsc)
LikeLike
Gin Blossoms-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LuH0ywYVQc)
LikeLike
@Bulanik I guess Nine inch nails would fall into a similar category mixing industrial, techno, and electronica with some pop rock. NIN is probably a little more metal though.
LikeLike
Brian Adams (I know he is Canadian but i’m a fan) -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f06QZCVUHg)
LikeLike
skid row (great vid)- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQq72ULF_g)
LikeLike
@Bulanik.. Prodigy is cool.
LikeLike
Tesla -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2q_-xN2N54)
LikeLike
type o negative -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJhUs9PQvHs)
LikeLike
Here’s one for the liberals … Ted Nugent-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eISPP6zuNE)
LikeLike
Dio-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_h4ESpTIhE)
LikeLike
this is actually on topic considering abagonds criteria…
Dr. Dre and Snoop Deep Cover -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3rZjJB1hY)
LikeLike
emimem-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9bCLPwzSC0)
LikeLike
Blackthorn- they are a local irish band in the philly area (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlaIwNC-w8) Happy St. Pats
LikeLike
Drop Kick Murphys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-NSF0Boyo)
LikeLike
Can’t believe I forgot about “Styx” —-“One of the best American bands , and they only got a bad rap because most critic are cynical aholes” from the movie “Big Daddy”…..(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MAg_yWsq8)
LikeLike
@Legion….. My man pots and pans…. I love STP!!!!
LikeLike
Check it out… MORE BRUUUUUCEEEE .. PRove it all night… (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWos8TS9yaE)
LikeLike
Look as sloppy as Bruce could be at times if you watch an entire concert from the late 70s early 80s when he was in his prime Dylan, McCartney, Lennon, Morrison, Joplin, Hendrix, Page, Plant, Clapton, Jagger, and all the greats were jealous of the true American rocker Bruce. Just my opinion. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXFn_c_LzFI)
LikeLike
I’m on fire…….(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1tAdpMkBdQ)
LikeLike
Jack Black-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTkVxwVn6-E)
LikeLike
Pantera -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM4pipRvyVU)
LikeLike
J Geils Band-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo43B6nu60)
LikeLike
@Dave
LOL Bruce was great but I prefer the likes of Hendrix, Paige, Plant, AC/DC etc. I do respect Springsteen as a musician but it is just my opinion.
”White American” music is nothing more than water downed black music that has been brought to the masses to entertain. Without Blacks, there wouldn’t even be a music industry in this country!
Whites HAVE MADE contributions to the music industry but Blacks really shaped it. Blacks created Rock n’ Roll but Elvis took it and made it popular in the 1950s. It was Michael Jackson who brought all racial barriers with the success of Thriller in the early 1980s with record breaking album sales, winning eight Grammys in one night and merging R&B with Pop music. I can go on and on but I am too tired.
Why doesn’t anyone admit that the American music industry was shaped by Blacks?
LikeLike
Stevie Nicks-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UD0c58nNCQ)
LikeLike
I agree Adeen that Blacks were in America before most whites. Therefore they shaped the culture more. I’ll admit most of my ancestors came here after 1900. I realize that’s just my family but it’s probably the history of more than 50% of whites. So coming into the culture late they assimilated into a music scene that was already thriving. There are very talented white bands that came into their own as well though.
LikeLike
Foo Fighters-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhzmNRtIp8k)
LikeLike
@Adeen.. Look at it like this. You had great white ball players such as Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth etc. before Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays. It doesn’t take away from the skills of these players that the game was all white at one time.
Jazz, Blues, and Rock N’ Roll were all black at one time. But if you ask Bo Didley if Eddie Van Halen was an innovative guitarist he would surely say yes.
LikeLike
Social D-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh8zcbC_Dcw)
LikeLike
Blues Traveler-*(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ousaiByU1ko)
LikeLike
Charlie Daniels Band-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgvfRSzmMoU)
LikeLike
Kenny Rogers-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG3m9FIAs54)
LikeLike
Why doesn’t anyone admit that the American music industry was shaped by Blacks?
Because it would be socially and psychological inconsistent to acknowledge or respect any contribution blacks make or have made to america or the world when there is a substantial need to perceive them as subordinate to all others.
LikeLike
Waylon Jennings-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRX4mlFi06A)
LikeLike
ZZ Top-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nZniMYCZp4)
LikeLike
John Denver-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzldLJcorbo&list=RD02HkGS263lGsQ)
LikeLike
The Righteous Brothers -(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrDQQIiweE)
LikeLike
House of Pain-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpmX4qG1kQg)
LikeLike
Rage Against the Machine-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqWP1rsAMrw)
LikeLike
Jane’s Addiction-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43iW8oB20Ps)
LikeLike
@Mbeti
I think most will agree with you that American music itself was largely shaped by Blacks.
BUT, perhaps the American Music INDUSTRY was largely shaped by whites.
LikeLike
@ Legion
I deleted two of your comments for using abusive language.
LikeLike
No ,Dave, black people being in America longer than your people, has nothing to do with it.
You forget the culture of the slaves being brought over from Africa ,was severly surpressed buried and theY attemted to destroy it.,,
Its atestement to that culture ,that it rose up to ABSOLUTLY DOMINATE THE POPULAR CULTURE OF THE USA ,INCLUDING THE CULTURES YOUR PEOPLE CAME FROM
LikeLike
@jefe
Slavery Law of 1665 (which stayed in effect until 1968) and the Maryland
Doctrine of Exclusion (1638): both laws state that blacks must be excluded from the benefits afforded whites, and that blacks must remain noncompetitive with whites, except in sports and entertainment.
LikeLike
@Mbeti
”Because it would be socially and psychological inconsistent to acknowledge or respect any contribution blacks make or have made to america or the world when there is a substantial need to perceive them as subordinate to all others.”
You are correct and you answered my question, ”Why doesn’t anyone admit that the American music industry was shaped by Blacks?”. The White supremacy system aims to keep Black achievements and accomplishments suppressed and unknown while at the same time, uplifting achievements by Whites. Us Blacks were the first people on the planet and we are the ones who started and made civilization the way it is now but no one wants to admit it.
@Jefe
Blacks largely shaped the American music industry! Without Chuck Berry and Black musicians trying to make Rock n’ Roll, there would be NO Elvis Presley. And my, do White America still put this man on the pedestal despite the fact that he is did NOT create the genre of Rock n’ Roll. The Rock musicians many Whites enjoy from AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Queen, etc were influenced by Black musicians from the past whether you like to admit it or not!
For about a generation or two there was a disparity between ”Black music” which was R&B and Soul and ‘White music” which was Rock and Roll until Michael Jackson came on the scene in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Michael Jackson was very talented and gifted man that crossed over from R&B to mainstream music in the early 1980s. Thus Michael Jackson broke barriers in the music industry with his music videos and record breaking album sales and the disparity between ”White” music and ”Black” music lessened a bit since both Whites and Blacks brought his music at the time. By the late 1980s/1990s, he was known as the King of Pop. I know this wasn’t revelant but MJ had an huge impact on the music business. If MJ was alive today, Justin Bieber will be working at McDonald’s.
Like I said earlier, White American mainstream music is nothing more than water downed Black music that has been marketed to the masses.
LikeLike
@adeen
“I know this wasn’t relevant but MJ had an huge impact on the music business.”
oh contrair ,MJ is extremely relevant, to me as soon as his status as “the king of pop” became apparent and irrefutable ,a concerted (and successful) effort (by members of the white population) was made to separate ,isolate and distant him not only from black music and black people but from is own blackness as well.
And so he died (was murdered?) after having married and conceived with not one but two successive very white females (ensuring white progeny) and turning his image from that of a black/african male to a white female.
As well as being smeared with appearing to be a pedophile/homosexual.
LikeLike
Adeen, I know about that history. I have read it many many times and in fact grew up with it since the 1960s and witnessed much of it personally.
I do remember the pre-Michael Jackson era when there was “white” music and “black” music in the minds of many Americans. I fully agree that American white music was largely shaped by American black music.
But all your argument supports the idea that blacks shaped American music itself (ie, the various American music genres and also its artists). I think most people agree with that. But what is the argument that the INDUSTRY, not American music per se, was shaped by blacks. When you say MJ broke barriers in the “music industry”, then you make an implicit assumption that it was a “white” industry (or what barriers are you referring to?) .
Maybe what you mean is that the American music was largely shaped by black American music genres and artists without making statements about the industry.
Mbeti’s quote partially supports that, implying that the black music industry was, in some aspects, allowed to develop completely independently of whites. But it did not show the connection to how the present day industry is modelled on what developed separately in the black music industry.
By music, I mean the various genre and to some extent the artists, ie, the art form. By industry, I mean the method and financing used to produce and market and trade products. Are you saying that the production methods and financing techniques used are ones developed by black people?
(just clarifying, not refuting anything – it is for understanding the meaning of what is being said only).
It is like comparing American cuisine to the American catering industry (a different “animal”).
LikeLike
@B.R. lol… take a chill pill. My point here on this is not to say who’s better than who. But I think there are several people on here who need to open their eyes to what’s in front of them, which is great American music that has talent , soul, and poetry.
All the bands I named here are off the top of my head, so it’s pure opinion. It’s not like I’ve researched the subject. But I guarantee I could name just as many black acts as white acts from America. You are taking this a little too personally. Music is not competition. People who make it such make themselves look foolish.
LikeLike
This matter was addressed in a few other posts, eg,
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/rb-a-brief-history-1975-1979/
LikeLike
Dave, my caps button got locked on a computor I wasnt used too , I guarentee you, Im not taking it personaly , its just a fact the things Im saying and white Americans are most often as not. in denial about how the foundations of our music culture were built
Adeen is spot on about the origins of civilisation , to be sure the priniples of the grooves used in our culture were forged by the ancient black Africans, from below the Sahara well before Egypt was a civilisation
LikeLike
B-52’s-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCUnzcUMJHc)
LikeLike
Huey Lewis and the News-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsFtEqnyWYY)
LikeLike
Steely Dan-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKOq7-mNeaE)
LikeLike
Blues Brothers-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTJeT2i9QU)
LikeLike
3rd Bass(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzXI_ApY4dY)
LikeLike
KISS-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diKz9udywg4)
LikeLike
Poison(as cheezy as they are I like this song)-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_88L-CU7PD4)
LikeLike
Aerosmith-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMBC_x-cTQQ)
LikeLike
Ramones-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4P4ln781D0)
LikeLike
anthrax public enemy -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dUAaftfzw)
LikeLike
Suicidal Tendencies-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxcJW6bs5os)
LikeLike
Metallica(they deserve two)-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shwmCP73iDY)
LikeLike
Warren Zevon-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRu8N2K0NY)
LikeLike
Gary Busey as Buddy Holly-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHaK7tYTFgg)
LikeLike
Eddie Cochran-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeWC59FJqGc)
LikeLike
Stray Cats-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYiwxM_RVEI)
LikeLike
George Thorogood and the Destroyers -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnO_a0Kxag0)
LikeLike
@Dave
I am not trying to say that anyone was better but you have to realize that Blacks helped shaped the mainstream music Americans listened to in the past and present. If you don’t understand this, then it is no use repeating myself. I wasn’t trying to make myself look ”foolish”, I was telling the truth.
I am not dissing any of your musical choices, in fact, I like them(You have great taste in music) either. I hope you know it isn’t my intention at all.
@B.R.
I cosign with you.
@MBeti
I like your response. As a young person, I wasn’t around when Michael Jackson was popular but you really sound like you grew up watching and listening to MJ’s music thus Michael Jackson really meant a lot to you. He was this successful Black male singer who came on the scene as a solo artist in 1979 in a racist society. MJ, soon, went on to break records with his music and I am sure you looked up to him when you were growing up. I know my parents did.
I know my mother was sad when MJ died so young. I was shocked. I am a MJ fan as well but from your comment, I know he was an important part of your generation.
LikeLike
@Adeen I hear you doll. You are correct we have all influenced each other in America… that is one of the benefits of a melting pot. Did you know that the Beastie Boys pioneered sampling ? Hip hop wouldn’t be the same without them.
LikeLike
Bon Jovi-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btj_ylKByzE)
LikeLike
velvet revolver-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhsUFuqbCM)
LikeLike
@Adeen… this is especially for you … Godsmack covering LedZep-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXxVm-hdEo)
LikeLike
only because I don’t think I picked the best this band has another one from the Eagles..some of you might know this song from the movie “The Warriors” -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7IbMrN-QFg)
LikeLike
Eddie Money-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJbBSIFN36k)
LikeLike
REO Speedwagon-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwCP2hX2FM)
LikeLike
Night Ranger-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z92bmlcmyq0)
LikeLike
Kenny Loggins-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58QOBqAWNzE)
LikeLike
RIP Patrick Swayze-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pNpR6KGLEk)
LikeLike
The Doors-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JskztPPSJwY)
LikeLike
The Byrds-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHvf20Y6eoM)
LikeLike
@Dave
I do love the Beastie Boys. I didn’t know that! Yes, the Beastie Boys were very influential in Hip Hop.
Glad you posted a Led Zeppelin song. I was just listening to them today.
Beatles Hey Jude
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdI7GhZSQA)
One of my favorites by Beatles.
Beatles Yesterday
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S09F5MejfBE)
This is my most favorite Beatles song. This song gets me by during the times I feel discouraged or sad. It makes me feel that tomorrow will be a better day for me.
I am surprised that you didn’t post the Beatles’ music. As much as I love the Beatles, I do admit they are rather overrated.
Led Zeppelin Kashmir
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvmuDH8cgG0)
This is my favorite Led Zeppelin song!
Led Zeppelin Fool in the Rain
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2015S3A-lg)
I love this song and I believe that this song was the best song off of their 1979 album, In Throughout The Door ALTHOUGH I liked other songs from this album. This song is the third track from this album. This song is usually the first song I listen to during my day because of the drum shuffle, beat and the fact that the song is amazing. I love John Bonham’s drum shuffle!
Led Zeppelin In the Evening
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YqBFL-my5A)
I have been listening to this song very often lately. I really like it though but it can’t top Fool in the Rain. This song also came from Led Zeppelin’s 1979 album, In Throughout the Door and it is the first track from the album too.
Led Zeppelin South Bound Saurez
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIugOkgtEiU)
This is the second track from their album, In Throughout the Door and I really like this track as well. I can admit that this song is slightly better than In The Evening, well in my opinion.
Led Zeppelin All of My Love
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0DAnu5Sq6k)
Another good LZ track. This is the sixth track out of seven tracks on In Throughout the Door.
I have listened to other Led Zeppelin tracks besides In Throughout the Door tracks but I have to admit, I have been listening to songs from In Throughout the Door very often. I have listened to their first three albums as well and I was very impressed.
LikeLike
Queen is another good Classic Rock band.
I love Bohemian Rhapsody by them. In fact, Bohemian Rhapsody is my favorite Queen song.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ)
Play the Game,
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5O-nUiZ_0)
Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy,
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3LAgGBxqU)
Killer Queen
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAf2S6ij2gk)
Under Pressure
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I)
Don’t Stop Me Now
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I)
I listen to other Queen songs but these are among my favorites by them.
LikeLike
Michael Jackson is another old time artist I love listening to. I am a huge Michael Jackson fan!
Got the Hots
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I)
My most favorite MJ song. This song came out in 1982 but I doubt anyone has heard it.
Don’t Stop Until You Get Enough
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yURRmWtbTbo)
I love this song and I have been listening it to it a lot. This song is the first track off of MJ’s 1979 Off the Wall album.
Rock With You
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X-Mrc2l1d0)
Another good song by him. This is the third track off of 1979’s Off The Wall. When I was little, this was my favorite Michael Jackson song and it was my favorite Michael Jackson song for a very long time until I hit puberty. And I love this music video, too, he looked so happy and alive! Plus he liked what he was doing.
Off the Wall
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrd3lSn5FqQ)
Love this song
She’s Out of My Life
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DQJPL9Yuq0)
Another track from Off the Wall album.
One More Chance
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-owpIWQMd80)
This song is one of the few songs outside of the Off the Wall album that I listen to and it is one of my favorite MJ songs.
I do listen to other MJ songs outside of Off the Wall era but these days, I mainly listen to songs from Off the Wall album because I felt Off the Wall was his best album.
LikeLike
@ Adeen
Please put your YouTube links inside of parentheses, like what dave does. You should do that on the Open Thread and any thread, like this one, with more than 300 comments. Otherwise the thread will load too slowly for many people.
Thanks.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Thanks for the advice., I will put my youtube links inside parenthesis from now.
LikeLike
@adeen
I had not considered the generational aspect of MJ,
and on that note as I can see here you are finding out about a lot of music that was made by artist before you where born, and only now are you hearing them.
This is yet another wonderful benefit of this internet age – allowing multiple generations to share in music from different times and genres.
Here are some song’s from “my” era that I’ve discovered recently
I was probably too young when it first game out but I really like it….
The Box Tops – Cry Like A Baby
Now how the hell did i miss this
The Who – Eminence Front 1982
(two years outta high school I probably thought I was only supposed to listen to rap and RnB – although I was aware of elvis presley ,the beetles and a lot 70’s soft rock;oh yeah and Disco was killing it
Elo – Turn To Stone I like a lot of ELO but this one seems their sweetest -awh….
When I say recently ,I’m talking in the last year or so – and I have had a collection that includes Rock And Newwave that I’d held for more than ten years now.
LikeLike
oops sorry Abagond ,I was not paying attention to your directions and instructions ,I will make sure to aviod this mistake in the future – sorry
ELO Test…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFljpJdYRKM)
LikeLike
yep, that’s the correct way to do it;-)
LikeLike
Dave, the beastie boys didnt start sampling, another false statement, and hip hop would have been incredibly fine if they never existed.
You dont get it , black Americans innovated, and white Americans copied
Your list is hyped record company machine promo propaganda
By the way some of your people are my people, Scotch Irish and I have no problem understanding the reality of the dynamic…also interesting, you dont mention some of your people who really were valuable contributors, Loiuis Belison, and, Gene Krupa, two greats…you dont eve know your own American culture
Yes,,Adeen, before MJ broke the color barrior on MYV, it was lily white
LikeLike
@B.R.
That is what my mother told me about MJ. It is nice to hear that you know that Blacks really contributed to the music we listened to in the past and present. Without Michael Jackson, MTV wouldn’t have been the way it was. MJ was one of the first artist in his era to make his music videos planned out like a story and make music videos so interesting. Thriller is a good example of MJ’s creativity when it came to music videos.
@MBeti
I like your choices of music. They were amazing! But isn’t1980s Rock and ”New Wave” technically the same thing.
My favorite New Wave 1980s song is Too Shy by Kajagoogoo. You may or may not heard it before. It came out in 1983.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWbMJOIkUk)
LikeLike
@ Adeen Too Shy is a great song. I loved New Wave back in the day and it’s still fresh to me today.
LikeLike
@adeen
Too Shy was/is defiantly in my collection under “Newwave”
And yeah a lot of 80’s Rock was indistinguishable from Newwave
How about this one
Godley and Creme – Cry
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxtPRF6NG7I)
and
David & David – Welcome To The Boomtown
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97wvwuHUMCw)
and
Talking Heads “Burning Down the House”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNnAvTTaJjM)
LikeLike
@B.R. I hear you on the commercial music that everyone knows point. But that is what I stuck to because most people would have heard the songs a few times so they could have more of an opinion on it. Plus I thought that was the sort of “White American Music” that Abagond was talking about. The “watered down” mainstream stuff. There is some diamonds in the rough in some of that though.
LikeLike
Continued^^^ … also I was trying to keep to bands that no one else mentioned. after a while I ran out of what I like so I had to start going with the mainstream stuff.
LikeLike
Trends aside, if a music group is good and talented the people will buy the records. It’s the music that isn’t as good that seems to get put into a box… or a style that the record execs think will sell despite of mediocre talent. If someone has the looks and the sound that is popular, but isn’t as good, that is when it becomes watered down.
LikeLike
jackson browne-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeibLr4gKT8)
LikeLike
Nazareth -(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soDZBW-1P04)
LikeLike
I agree… when I go back and look at most of the videos from the 80s they make me want to cringe. Adam and the Ants below (since we’re talking 80s New Wave)
First the bad 80s video…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVWWtqa9-7M)
But much better if you put a camera on the band with a little dramatic lighting…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT27A6Sa10k)
But both nothing like the revolution that Michael Jackson brought with Billy Jean in 1983 which changed music videos for ever and for the better.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y)
And as you can see, the live performance still stand up 100% as well.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXhy7ZsiR50)
LikeLike
Cool acoustic version of “Born in the USA” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7XLeYMUZY4)
LikeLike
Dave, Dave , Dave….the thread is getting so long , its hard to comment..
all Im saying is…you have stated your Italian heritage…Gene Krupa, put the drums out front as a solo instrument, admitted Chick Webb and his band (Benny Goodman, who you mentioned by the way) burned them at the Savoy Ballroom battle they had, so, he was honest and knew the roots…he was a real contributor to the music (you can hear about this on the Ken Burns jazz docu)
and, Louis Belison, incredible talent, married great singer Pearl Baily, played drums in the Duke Ellington band, which is a white drummer going to the very top of his idiom, to play with one of the great black American musical artists…now that is what Im talking about…that is what a white American musician needs to do…seek out the best and the innovators and learn from them…not learn music in a garage and then have some hits and false hype and huge record company machine system behind them that makes them number one and legends in our minds and theirs…
those are two great musicians, who happen to be of Italian heritage, who were exceptional musicains and part of the history of great American music and knew the roots and who the real innovators were, and, played with them. If I am going to call a white American musician great, I expect nothing less of them than these two great American musicians demonstrated
LikeLike
Krupa played with Bennie Goodman, I might have confused people by the way I said it in the post
LikeLike
@mbETI
Great choices! I like them.
@King
MJ really made a difference. In fact, many of today’s artists were influenced by MJ yet much of their music released in today’s mainstream is rather abysmal and crappy.
I mostly listen to old school music like MJ etc because the music was better quality.
LikeLike
The Jackson 5
“Dancing Machine”
LikeLike
Bouncing Souls-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1uWVOEL3uE)
LikeLike
Rancid-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck0BrAoqNlY)
LikeLike
Sublime-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHrWEzPT4H8)
LikeLike
Gordon Lightfoot-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3G0KYax65E)
LikeLike
Del Shannon-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S13mP_pfEc)
LikeLike
Rodney Dangerfield-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXNwxkHcD0A)
LikeLike
more styx… cause they deserve it…(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBi61pgDUP8)
LikeLike
styx-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-oIpibE3GQ)
LikeLike
more Kansas-(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ)
LikeLike
Jim Croce-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRvYSZNyo8M)
LikeLike
Harry Chapin-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5r2spPJ8g)
LikeLike
A favorite of mine from a white American band:
“You Get What You Give” ~ New Radicals (circa 1998)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL7-CKirWZE)
LikeLike
Simple and elegantly done:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ1c9ErCn7w)
“Bizarre Love Triangle” by Frente!
LikeLike
How about when “White Music” has a Black lead?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT6m_PkK2-E)
“Kreuzberg” by Bloc Party – Lead Singer: Kele Okereke
LikeLike
Back to 80s New Wave with the Furs.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1JZvQCFpQ)
LikeLike
@king
I like new order’s version of Bizarre Love Triangle better
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmLerpRZKG0)
BTW first heard it as one of the featured artist on the Married to the Mob film soundtrack
Cool 80’s movie and slamming 80’s movie soundtrack!
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knVN0X7mbKY)
“Family Tradition” by Hank Williams, Jr.
LikeLike
@ Fiamma; I LOVE that song by the New Radicals. It’s one of my favorite go to songs. You are just great for suggesting that one. I just feel like jumping up and down on my couch when I hear that.
LikeLike
@King… I’m not trying to be smart but aren’t the “Psychedelic Furs” British?
LikeLike
@dave Psychelic Furs are British.
LikeLike
Oops I meant Psychedelic. Forgive typos.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og1QRtcWdEY)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvlUrNRRE4E)
Nice baritone!
LikeLike
@ dave
Ok, you caught me… but so was Adam Ant (and I got away with that!)
LikeLike
Bob-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_swaxOidGU)
LikeLike
more beastie boys-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhqyZeUlE8U)
LikeLike
@ Fiamma; I LOVE that song by the New Radicals. It’s one of my favorite go to songs. You are just great for suggesting that one. I just feel like jumping up and down on my couch when I hear that.
– – –
Thanks Mary. I liked that one the first time I heard it.
Here’s another one that I took to immediately:
“Let It Rock” ~ Kevin Rudolf
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0n4eMGXAyk]
(I don’t care for the part where Lil’ Wayne comes in, but, oh well….)
LikeLike
its time for a new song but i cant think of one
LikeLike
tres apropos even then
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pfUIPRKY7s)
let the music do the talkin
my grandma always said give him a minute he’ll figure it out
LikeLike
@ Fiamma; I LOVE that one as well. I like the part where he says “He gave his middle finger to the world”. I love that. We are totally in sync.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3sGmUwI2D0)
Walk This Way Aerosmith(Feat. Run DMC)
the guitar is better
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CjKAWyOb74)
namaste beastie boys
LikeLike
good enough van halen
LikeLike
she sound american but not
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILW66aNXWwc)
stop jane’s addiction
LikeLike
Kid Rock-(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xY9QPfhZ5c)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL0w-aOkF_k)
The Reverend Horton Heat – Five-O Ford
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD0D7IuriWQ)
Nirvana – Aneurysm
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpPt_Ow5lh8)
The Black Crowes – Remedy (Studio Version)
LikeLike
let bonnie make it all better this is the original stalker song though…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO5V-s8PWbk)
Bonnie Raitt – Love Letter (with lyrics)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fpjWLsDfj0)
Again – Alice In Chains
LikeLike
hey legion are you not suppose to title your youtube music link – I was googling au contraine for pete’s sake
AS to Godley and Cream?
Queen?
Psychedelic Furs?
my motto is if they sound good – I listen ,if it real good it might go into my collection
those three spoke english and sound good ……and they are white!
One area where we are all equal and can’t force aggression and ignorance – otherwise known as bullshit down your throat (to torture a metaphor)….
LikeLike
a ethnic whiter people song of new jersey
Blues Traveler – Carolina Blues
LikeLike
‘*typo white not intentional or who knows automatic writing
LikeLike
one for the road a double shot even then yet
Blues Traveler – But Anyway
LikeLike
huh,. yeah, that was wierd i get disrtracted easily.
White Liar by Miranda Lambert [Lyrics]
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqajEd_DKgk)
Professor Booty
Beastie Boys
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWNTqbLFFE)
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young – Woodstock
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s87wYA2el4)
She’s Country – Jason Aldean (Lyrics)
LikeLike
its kind of american?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY)
Buffalo Springfield – For What It’s Worth 1967
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqDjMZKf-wg)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ITxP1evF2A)
dam that river alice in ch ains
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYeyk9098NU)
Mad Season. I’m Above subtitulada
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUsvRaRk9Fs)
Stevie Ray Vaughan – Scuttle Buttin’
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC7tSx8-1yc)
JACKSON BROWNE – Boulevard
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUNrHzQ6u94)
Blue Oyster Cult: Damaged
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrNidpNGA5M)
Said – Puddle Of Mudd
LikeLike
Eddie Vedder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0QGJTdl7-0)
LikeLike
Run DMC!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GND7sPNwWko)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCt0S4etsec)
Heart – Love Alive
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAA4oBDuyCU)
Velvet Revolver – Slither (lyrics)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-r9tuPrZK4)
Nirvana – Negative Creep (Live at Reading 1992)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBs6S1lW_Q)
Blue Oyster Cult: Cities on Flame with Rock and Roll
LikeLike
hey dave posted RUN-DMC,their not white,whats the rule ?white artist , or music listen to mostly by whites or whatever you like ?
Damn v8driver you like you some music huh,I love music too but lately I listen to my collection less and less.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qKOv3VBJcc)
Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress-The Hollies (With Lyrics)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlu3A3BBgE)
“Lonely Is the Night” – by Billy Squier
@mbeti ye this just the white american stuff
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2mUOqLntM8) Metallica!!
LikeLike
then dave should not have posted Run -DMC they not white nor Rock
BTW
David Bowie – I’m Afraid Of Americans
(www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge3ojU6kE3Q)
LikeLike
My favorite by Blue Öyster Cult :
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClQcUyhoxTg)
“Don’t Fear the Reaper”
LikeLike
Abagond, sorry about the the comment in moderation. I forgot the parentheses!
would you add them for me, please?
LikeLike
The Romantics ~ “What I Like About You”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqnw5IfbZOU)
LikeLike
ah mr. dave there you are
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fDfmWm5l-M)
Slayer – Skeletons Of Society (lyrics included in video)
LikeLike
As a 53 year-old, white Englishman, my musical preferences are probably not the most contemporary. The first bands I got into as a kid were The Jackson 5 and T.Rex – pretty different from each other! I love most kinds of music. I totally, and gratefully acknowledge the huge value of black music as both a source and as a continuing influence in white music. I love a lot of black music: soul (especially Stax and Motown), ska and reggae, classic hip hop (specifically socially and politically focused stuff such as that released by Public Enemy), blues, jazz (I’m no expert, but there’s plenty that I love) and funk (The first time I saw George Clinton and Bootsie Collins on TV my jaw just dropped and I was hooked). As a (mediocre) guitarist I love Jimi Hendrix and Nile Rodgers.
But I also love plenty of white music – some very directly derived from black music and some less obviously so. I love Stevie Ray Vaughan and Bonnie Raitt, I like the American southern rock sound (even though I could live without the confederate flags and defensive attitudes displayed by some bands). I like a lot of folk and acoustic singer/songwriter music, and I perform that kind of stuff a lot myself.
As a teenager I was really into rock, but that diminished as I got older. I’m afraid I don’t have much time for Led Zep. I think their skills are overrated and they at best “borrowed” a lot of what they got credit for (as did Dylan).
British punk rock of the 70s was a real high for me. Bands like Stiff Little Fingers and The Clash whose sound was influenced by such unlikely combinations as The Ramones and Jamaican reggae just blew me away. Great social and political conscience and immense energy. They were fiercely anti-fascist and anti-racist and helped to introduce a new generation of kids to reggae and ska music.
A few years later the British radio DJs John Peel and Andy Kershaw got me into African music such as soucous, and while working with a bunch of Indian guys I got into bhangra and other kinds of Asian music
Music is an area where I think racism is particularly stupid. How can one love music yet look down on the people from whom we got so much of it?
LikeLike
Drat, meant to mention Tom Waits. Possibly my favourite white American musician. I would respectfully suggest to Abagond that Mr Waits lyrics are very substantial. The man paints pictures and draws characters with his words as well as with his music and his performances. Some of his stuff can fill your heart. Even more of it can break your heart.
I offer “Martha” and “On the Nickel” as examples.
LikeLike
let bonnie make it all better
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_5XQP3U5ak)
BONNIE RAITT Love Sneakin Up On You
LikeLike
Nice link, v8driver. 🙂
Apparently Bonnie majored in African Studies at college. She’s certainly always given the respect due to the guys whose music she loves.
On the subject of blues musicians, I know BB King isn’t the greatest player ever, but he’s my favourite. Great voice, full of character and a nice touch and very recognisable guitar style. Also, he just looks like someone’s jolly old grandfather. He’s always been very generous to the younger white guys who have counted him among their heroes – Clapton etc.
I was watching video the other day of Peter Frampton and BB King on stage with Frampton’s Guitar Circus show. I love Frampton too, he a very fine guitarist, but when they played ‘How Bue Can You Get’ I did find myself wishing he’d sit quiet for a while and just let BB go for it.
A (white) guitarist friend and ex-bandmate of mine has the surname King. He has become a father quite late in life (he’s older than me) and has two young toddler twin boys whom he has named Freddie and Riley. Not many people around here get the references.
LikeLike
Are you guys familiar with the British band Skunk Anansie?
They’re a rock band with two black members (lead vox and bass) and two white members (guitar and drums). Lead vocals are by a black woman known as Skin.
The linked video makes them look like idiots, but their songs have always been better than their videos…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPglNjxVHiM)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdde5KZqO4)
Robin Thicke feat. T.I, Pharrell – Blurred Lines (Lyrics Video)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpQmrUxwiF8)
Don McClean ~ “Crying”
I love the way McClean’s voice climbs and finally soars at the end of this song.
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCFOlQxW220)
Stone Temple Pilots – Vasoline Lyrics
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBi0vMVHvHM)
another snowman song about crack
Temple of the Dog – Pushin Forward Back
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOarft2T-l4)
Privilege by Incubus
LikeLike
cheating! she’s austrailian
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp3Nxbuy48w)
Royals – Lorde (lyrics)
LikeLike
better…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5I7wdelUIOo)
Mutya Keisha Siobhan, “Royals” (Lorde Cover)
ignore the guitarist he need to be replaced immediately
LikeLike
^^
i think they did take 2 on that one bc the white girl was singing the melody lyrics at first
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQE1Q1NILfQ)
HEAVY METAL-Sammy Hagar-Heavy Metal
“hand to hand in a gunfight”
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjNjJR9jUGo) Temple of the Dog.. “Hunger Strike”
LikeLike
cheating british
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjJU_wQPpKk)
Bad Company – Feel Like Making Love ~ Lyrics
LikeLike
also correction lorde chick from .nz i guess
LikeLike
cheating chicano
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE4Fvjhz2sE)
Suicidal Tendencies – Institutionalized lyrics
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZPvPbegXU)
Bonnie Raitt Lowell George live radio broadcast. The next 10 Minutes after “Can’t Find My Way Home”
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XGJV7vdETY)
They Love Each Other
GRATEFUL DEAD Saturday, February 26, 1977. Swing Auditorium – San Bernardino, CA
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lxINyZxbgU)
Theory of a Deadman – Lowlife
LikeLike
((http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmE_Zek4e1o)
Type O Negative Summer Girl (Banned Version – Summer Breeze)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7nngW2qPy4)
Cold Gin
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8vmaj75xzE)
Tool – Aenema (Lyrics and Meaning)
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uctRPWCmrxc)
The Black Keys – Gold On The Ceiling lyrics
LikeLike
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6a_1R3w5i4)
Ray LaMontagne – Beg Steal or Borrow
it might seem corny at first but listen to this,
LikeLike
Katy Perry ft. Juicy J – Dark Horse – Lyrics HD
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdy6z3gJimg)
LikeLike
Eminem feat. Rihanna – The Monster – Lyrics
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPhlxrDwL1g)
LikeLike
Electric Worry – Clutch (Lyrics)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeVRd_bBF00)
LikeLike
Clutch-The Mob goes wild-Lyrics
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1frL6BrpWo)
LikeLike
http://www.youtube.com/user/conlonte/videos
LikeLike
@V8driver: I do love the “Black Keys”
LikeLike
@Buddhuu: I am a huge fan of the “Clash” and I do love Eric Clapton, and Dire Straits.
LikeLike
I am also a huge “Coldplay fan as well.
LikeLike
Red Hot Chili Peppers Funky crime (lyrics)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVT0JJbQiUA)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l01lOKj3k)
Rage Against The Machine – Take The Power Back (Lyrics)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgr1pS7_1mU)
The Black Crowes – Thorn In My Pride – Subtitulado al español
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmPkgSIkUeM)
Grateful Dead & Janis Joplin – Lovelight 1970-07-16
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKqERfuNlX8)
Robert Plant & Alison Krauss – “Let Your Loss Be Your Lesson”
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSLqeZzTU8I)
”The Perfect Drug” (1997) Nine Inch Nails
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOpwA6rGUR4)
Miss Independent Lyrics By Kelly Clarkson
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk84wFGRGOE)
Battle Of Someone – Blues Traveler
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CI-0E_jses)
Glenn Miller – In The Mood [HQ]
1953?
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2zwBRa0YhA)
Tesla – Edison’s Medicine
cheating british
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRsoaDcyLDE)
Robert Palmer-Simply Irresistible
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cRBn0wiS-k)
Ariana Grande – Problem (Lyrics On Screen) ft. Iggy Azalea
LikeLike
Slayer War Ensemble with lyrics
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7YpCzJYaiU)
LikeLike
China Grove by the Doobie Brothers (with lyrics)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emxH2yl6ybo)
LikeLike
Anthrax Packaged rebellion
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10J2ztUv9LY)
LikeLike
Paramore: Ain’t It Fun [OFFICIAL VIDEO]
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFEmTsfFL5A)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U__Yo4Tr2k4)
Machine Head – “Old”
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC-99ooFK9U)
DONNIE IRIS- “AH! LEAH! ” (W/LYRICS)
for, well, you figure it out!
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbeBJPbZiOY)
Harvey Danger – Flagpole Sitta (Lyrics)
well means not sick from heroin from junkies
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DSSxpeLpxk)
Santa Monica by Everclear With Lyrics
LikeLike
Neon Light- Blake Shelton (LYRIC VIDEO)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQO4rX1ytiw)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtM94ou06o)
Eric Church Cold One Lyrics
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupKmHIQK9w)
11 Car Thief – Beastie Boys (Paul’s Boutique)
LikeLike
Mother Love Bone – Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thornse –
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qn7qe-UB-A&spfreload=10)
Ted Nugent – Great White Buffalo (Best Quality)
LikeLike
Maddie & Tae – Girl In A Country Song
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MOavH-Eivw)
LikeLike
John Hiatt – Slow Turning
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO2fmLRyZtk)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPf0YbXqDm0)
cheating british
Mark Ronson – Uptown Funk ft. Bruno Mars
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh-5FI21s6M)
Jane’s Addiction – Jane Says
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XzPaMJB7j8) Journey- Feeling that way.
LikeLike
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HVqkfV1WDDg)
Adele “I’ll Be Waiting”
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIKsqWkwJ_A)
Beastie Boys-Jimmy James
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_vQt_v8Jmw)
Rage Against The Machine – Freedom
cheating white+
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2TLxroHhw)
Blue Oyster Cult – Career of Evil (lyrics)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ePSJ44Fiw)
Greg Kihn Band-The Breakup Song (They Don’t Write ‘Em)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5I_CpoodtI)
Zebra-Tell Me What You Want
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NWjehpGSO0)
Social Distortion – Ball and Chain
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceXpGEGcUDg)
Puddle of Mudd – Psycho Lyrics
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWiXyY7lhU)
testament – low
“1. Low
[Music: Peterson]
[Lyrics: Billy]
Fuel the fire for war
It’s man against mankind
Bruises that they bear
Been beaten down with time
Innocent people suffer the loss
Your broken hope so close to the cross
Sometimes, you just don’t know
How low… how low you can go…
So low it’s sickening
Low… Low… show some mercy…
Hey you piece of shit
Just leave the kids alone
Why can’t you bear
The things that we endure
Innocent people suffer the loss
Lost hope with faith to the cross
Sometimes, you just don’t know
How low… how low you can go…
Show some sympathy
Low… Low… show some mercy…
[Solo: James]
I don’t like you for your warped demented ways
I hope they lock you down, so you never get away
Low… Low… show some sympathy
Low… Low… show some mercy…
“
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtf7R_oVaw)
38 Special – Hold On Loosely
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvF9PAxe5Ng)
Metallica – Fuel (Video)
LikeLike
cheating british
LikeLike
I have just been in love with all things John Mayer and Jack Johnson and Ed Sheeran.
LikeLike
cheating, british
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8z1EzDouNs)
American Woman The Guess Who
LikeLike
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9htYkvNq4)
RATM Bombtrack with lyrics
LikeLike
Nirvana – Sappy [Lyrics]
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zknlwXuGJUg)
LikeLike
(https://www.facebook.com/V8Driver/posts/10211776459155509)
LikeLike
@abagond i have bypassed your automoddy, sir, idk if autoplay in the fb plugin of wp will avoid your desired non autoplay effect
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SbDednOQdo)
Soundgarden – Superunknown (with lyrics)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XGJV7vdETY)
Grateful Dead They Love Each Other
26 FEB 77
LikeLike
System of a Down Suite-Pee (Lyrics)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcRLF4-a0mY)
LikeLike
David Bowie – I’m Afraid Of Americans
me too.
LikeLike
That’s interesting, because one of the things that attracted me to (some) white music was the words. American Pie. Hotel California. Even Eleanor Rigby. I knew it from Ray Charles and at first couldnt believe the Beatles wrote it. Elton John got a lot of music poetry.
Here’s one of my favorite white songs. Third Rate Romance.
(https://youtu.be/aTT-Jmi1nOc)
LikeLike
Consider this. Consider this.
Another of my all time favorites. I dont think anybody has posted this yet. It was a very timely song/video. Music lyrics video. All great.
Like a modern moving Caravaggio.
(https://youtu.be/aTT-Jmi1nOc)
LikeLike
@ Nomad
Do you know Don McLean’s “Starry Starry Night” about Vincent Van Gogh?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvLq0TYiwI)
LikeLike
@ nomad
Also, I think you posted the link for Third Rate Romance twice by mistake. The second one should be Losing My Religion, right?
LikeLike
@Solitaire.
yeah. did i do that again? previous link stuck in the cut and paste.
(https://youtu.be/xwtdhWltSIg)
LikeLike
@Solitaire
yeah, another favorite. thats a great video btw.
almost like my theme song.
dont forget to check out the caravaggio image in the post in mod.
LikeLike
Doubting Thomas
https://nomadsartblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/doubtingthomas_1.jpg?w=400&h=287
LikeLike
who cares wins by anthrax
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTzmvQb24jY)
LikeLike
@ Nomad
Sorry, I’ve been on the run all day and couldn’t reply earlier. That was fantastic, thanks!
I can see why you call the video a moving Caravaggio — but there are some nods to other artists as well, I think?
LikeLike
@Solitaire
maybe. generally. they all did the religious art. Baroque guys like Caravaggio and Rembrandt used strong light dark contrast. ‘chiaroscuro’. Caravaggio practically invented it. also he was reportedly gay and was known for vaguely suggestively homosexual imagery like this (self portrait?), which the video echoes, he was also violent, accused of murder and i think died a violent death at a relatively young age.

the image of the guy strumming the guitar is posed just like this guy and seems to be a direct reference to Caravaggio.

Also, did you notice my homage?
LikeLike
@ Nomad
Yeah, I was thinking Rembrandt and some of the other Dutch and/or Flemish artists whose names escape me. The window in the rough-hewn building reminded me of Wyeth, the angels in the leafy bower (right before the fall) reminded me of Parrish, and I felt like there were others that I couldn’t quite place. But definitely a preponderance of Caravaggio references.
“also he was reportedly gay and was known for vaguely suggestively homosexual imagery”
Didn’t know that. Did you catch the St. Sebastian martyrdom image in the video? That was often used as code for male homosexuality. So maybe it all ties in.
“the image of the guy strumming the guitar”
Pretty sure that’s a mandolin in the video — not that it makes much difference, except I play it a little bit 🙂
“Also, did you notice my homage?”
Sorry, no. If that was the link to your blog, I couldn’t get in because it said it was set to private.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
“Did you catch the St. Sebastian martyrdom image in the video? That was often used as code for male homosexuality. So maybe it all ties in.”
Good observation. Apparently he did several St Sebastians as well.

“the image of the guy strumming the guitar”
“Pretty sure that’s a mandolin in the video — not that it makes much difference, except I play it a little bit 🙂”
I started to call it a mandolin. Wasnt sure.
“Also, did you notice my homage?”
“Sorry, no. If that was the link to your blog, I couldn’t get in because it said it was set to private.”
Oh. My bad. Here it is reposted to my public blog. One of these links should work.
https://nomadsartblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/doubtingthomas_1.jpg?w=400&h=287
https://aislec.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/doubting-thomas/
LikeLike
“Yeah, I was thinking Rembrandt and some of the other Dutch and/or Flemish artists whose names escape me.”
they were all following caravaggios lead. he started it. his name is synonymous with chiaroscuro. practically if not in fact.
LikeLike
@ nomad
Sorry, it’s still no go on my end. The artblog still comes up as “403: Access Denied — This file requires authorization; you must be logged in and a member of this blog.” I can read the Aisle C post but the image only shows as an X or a ? (depending on which device I tried) and when I click on the X or ?, it routes me to the artblog where I get the same 403 message.
LikeLike
ok. ill try something else
LikeLike
removed privacy setting. should be able to go to nomadsartblog now.
if that doesn’t work ill try to find the original file. oops. that’s on a defunct pc.
LikeLike
@ Nomad
Hey, I can see it now!
That’s a powerful reinterpretation of the original. The combination of the light radiating from the wound and the obscuring of Christ’s face seems to me to suggest that even when one comes so close as to touch God, the experience remains mysterious and ineffable. Don’t know if that was what you intended to convey, but that was my first reaction.
Very nice piece of work. As I said on another thread, I am in awe of anyone who is talented in the visual arts, and having seen this example of your work, I’m impressed (and a little envious).
LikeLike
@nomad
I love the visual texture and vibrant hues of your “Doubting Thomas”. I also like the addition of an African man in the painting. Nice meditation.
LikeLike
thanks, guys.
LikeLike
doubting thomases. theyre staring pretty intensely for people without eyes.
LikeLike
The irony is that very few white artists capture my appreciation to the extent that I would go out and acquire their albums. Elton John. The Eagles. Very few artists of any color has done so in the 21st century. The irony is that the latest artist I have liked enough to add to my list of favorites is a white artist. Well, her music is actually black. Those backup musicians are old school. RIP Amy.
(https://youtu.be/TJAfLE39ZZ8)
LikeLike
eh should be some freeware custom playlist database at least with links so you could make your own streaming internet radio program but the mp3 quality of youtube plus their ads… it’s not cool, you know, besides pandora or whatever, ,pirate radio!
LikeLike
B-b-b-bennie and the Jets
(https://youtu.be/wo1OwRTRKRk)
LikeLike
Night Begins to Shine
(https://youtu.be/ycmRAAYP2xM)
LikeLike
Just watched the Bennie video again. Decided that it was awful. And doesnt do elton justice.
it seems to have very little to do with the song. while interesting, it is not my cup of tea. the song deserves better, more imagination. expansive rather than tightly contained with bennie rocking out at the end with the jets. JETS. plural. and i did not like the bennie image in this video. it verges on black stereotyping. weird but not wonderful.
LikeLike
@ nomad
The same here pretty much. I could not sit through the whole thing and it is nothing like how I imagined the song.
LikeLiked by 1 person
i said i watched it. but this time could not sit thru the whole thing either.
LikeLike
One of my earliest favorites. Not exactly ‘white music’ but the first version I heard. I thought his was the original. But I was just a kid. That’s why I liked the part where he says “EEK! Theres someone sneaking!”
(https://youtu.be/SEllHMWkXEU)
LikeLike
(https://www.facebook.com/V8Driver/posts/10214385229013125)
LikeLike
(https://youtu.be/yojZ-Ksr8AE)
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxDO8PipeBw)
garden grove sublime
LikeLike
our current song? she did some research!
“Black Water – Doobie Brothers (with lyrics)”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4-eKvv3EM)
we have some black songs too mostly r&b
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFv3sRnmHB0)
dylan – maggie’s farm live! its a good one
LikeLike
LikeLike
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg5vziU-qIs)
Journey – Feeling That Way
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
i would change three hundred sixty five degrees to four hundred fifty one it scans
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
AOR is dead!
https://www.facebook.com/V8Driver/posts/10216984544394385?xts%5B0%5D=68.ARD37MsH_Gcoog0wpGwXCpHl1LO1swpShezw1X6By4MiTUAR_ArHmBwTr0q5Vbx8c5Qsdh7TS8v_mTPmVak7W1hZnhyrAE-FZlubo_iVHpcId1yohwtkLJKq9ikOnjkHRjaVa5Qi0da2DRPDlRz61nfPwZi1utdhJyd4f4B7UwN4Qfop7D4lQBI&tn=-R
LikeLike
eek purple, the whole album by STP! always listen to it when the cable pull is done and it’s time to do the office, i highlly recommend it
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
LikeLike
the theme song to MTV News, with Kurt Loder!
pretty much my favorite album
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddhpFjyuNWI)
LikeLike
Unchained (2015 Remaster)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUtqdiMqof0)
LikeLike
LikeLike
How is Gangsta Rap close to Rock? @abagond
LikeLike