The most beautiful black Brazilian women

Mon Sep 10th 2007 by abagond

Here are the ten most beautiful black Brazilian women that I know of who are famous enough to have an article in the Wikipedia (in Portuguese). Brazil has more black women than any place in the world outside Africa, even more than America.

This is very much a work in progress: whenever I find out about one who is more beautiful than any of these I will add her and kick out number ten. And so on. I take age into account.

I count as black anyone whom Brazilians consider to be Afro-Brazilian.

1. Paula Lima (1970- ) is a singer and songwriter of MPB (Brazilian pop music) – a diva of Sao Paulo, as she calls herself. I love looking at her face when she sings. More.

2. Taís Araújo (1978- ) became the first black actress to appear as a main character in a telenovela on Brazilian television. She once played Elza Soares, one of Brazil’s best singers, and Xica da Silva, a slave who became the richest woman in Brazil. She is a presenter on the television show “Superbonita”, about how to be beautiful! More.

3. Adriana Bombom (1974- ) is a Carnival queen from Rio. She she was once one of Xuxa’s helpers. What a body! More.

4. Ildi Silva (1982- ) is a television actress from Bahia. She was discovered on the streets of Salvador and became a model. She says that in Brazil she is seen as neither black nor white. According to the BBC she is one-fifth African by blood and one-tenth native Indian. Her green eyes are Dutch. More.

5. Rojane Fradique (1986- ) is a fashion model from Bahia in the north where most people are black. She is tall (1.82 metres), extremely thin but looks like a work of art. In 2003 she placed second in Brazil in the Elite Model Look contest and 15th worldwide. More.

6. Camila Pitanga (1977- ) is a Brazilian model and television actress from Rio. Best known in Brazil as Bebel on the telenovela “Paraíso Tropical”. Ildi Silva, listed above, plays a secretary on the same show.

7. Adriana Lima (1981- ) She has modelled for Victoria’s Secret and Maybelline. She one of the richest and best-known Brazilians in the world. More.

8. Adriana Lessa (1971- ) is an actress and singer from Sao Paulo. She has appeared on Brazilian television throughout the 1990s and 2000s. She has a long nose and big, beautiful eyes – and a good website in English.

9. Valquíria Ribeiro (c. 1977- ) is a television actress. She is best known as the mother of the main character on the show “A Escrava Isaura”.

10. Lucy Ramos (1982- ) is a model and television actress. She is best known for playing Adelaide in the telenovela “Sinhá Moça”. She was born in Recife in Pernambuco. More.

See also:

The most beautiful Brazilian women – of any race
The most beautiful white Brazilian women
The women:
Black women in North America who are part Brazilian:
- YaYa Da Costa
- Vilayna Lasalle
black Brazilian models
The most beautiful black women – in the English-speaking world, at least.
YouTube – you can see most of these women on YouTube where you will get a better idea of their beauty than you can from still images.
Brazil
Race in Brazil

Posted in beauty, black women, brazil, women | 322 Comments

322 Responses

on Mon Oct 1st 2007 at 14:34:44 dawit a

no comment

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on Sat Oct 13th 2007 at 01:44:09 Stephanie B.

These women are worthy of my praise. I’m so glad Abagond is praising Black women in a world hostile to the talents, beauty and aspiration of Black and mixed Black women.

Thank you Abagond for doing such a fine work.

Stephanie B.

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on Sat Oct 13th 2007 at 19:10:58 abagond

I love them. It is my pleasure!

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on Sun Oct 14th 2007 at 04:17:38 Starrica

Beautifully said. It makes me proud to have Afro-Brazilian heritage.

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on Wed Mar 12th 2008 at 09:50:08 Brad

These women are just wonderful….
I love brazilian girls,they are simply the best!

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on Mon Mar 17th 2008 at 13:52:59 just stoping by

I DON’T CARE MUCH ABOUT BRAZILION WOMEN THEY ARE NOT BLACK IN MY EYES SORRY.

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 06:53:27 Lisa

I’M sorrry but MOST OF THE WOMEN ARE NOT BLACK

THE only black women here are

Tais Araujo >>>>(that pisture of tais that not represent her blackness…the picture has been airbushed so much that she looks light but in reality is as dark as Mry J Blige and has strong negroid features)

next time put a right picture that defines her blackness

Adriana bom bom
Paula Lima
Valquira ribeiro
Lucy ramos
Rojane fabrique

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 07:02:31 Lisa

THis list IS AN INULT TO BLACK WOMEN AND I AM SURE IT WAS POSTED BY A WHITE MAN….I’M SORRY BUT CAMILA AIN’T BLACK…..THIS LIST REALLY MADE ME ANGRY BECAUSE PEOPLE DN’T REALLY KNOW WHAT IS THE TRUE LOOK OF BLCK WOMEN.

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 07:03:07 Lisa

THE PERSON WHO MADE THIS LIST IS A FOOL AND VERY STUPID

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 22:08:43 abagond

I counted as black any woman who in Brazil is seen as Afro-Brasilian. Most are light-skinned blacks, some very close to white, like Pitanga. I have to draw the line somewhere and that seemed like a good point.

Race in Brazil is seen differently than in America:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/race-in-brazil/

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 22:09:04 abagond

If Pitanga came to America she could pass herself off as white. But in Brazil her father is a dark-skinned black and is well known. So she is counted as Afro-Brazilian. And is a beautiful woman no matter what her colour.

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on Sat Apr 19th 2008 at 22:19:09 abagond

Some say I prefer light-skinned women, but the lightness you see here is more because the black women in Brazil just are lighter in general, especially the famous ones.

Compare this list to the black women I like when I have the whole world to choose from (though most are Americans because that is what I know best):

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/the-ten-most-beautiful-black-women-in-the-world/

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on Tue Apr 22nd 2008 at 16:46:46 Lisa

abagond, …..

alL I have to say is that being an AFRO-BRASILIAN DOESN’T MEAN YOU ARE BLACK…..Pitanga should definitely be included in this list including Ilda…

and please save me that crap of “Brazilian women are light” PLease stop lying ….GO TO BAHIA AND YOU WILL SEE MANY MANY MANY DARK-SKINNED BRAZILIAN WOMEN…I MEAN LIKE AFRICANS….ALL THESE WOMEN HERE WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS PARDOS OR MESTICOS IN BRASIL …SO PLEASE MAKE A LIST OF “REAL BLACK BRAZILIAN WOMEN” PLEASE BECAUSE THIS LIST IS AN INSULT TO THE BEAUTY OF BLACK WOMEN.

MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY NOT BLACK WOMEN BUT PARDOS….PLEASE MAKE ANOTHER LIST OF “BLACK BRAZILIAN WOMEN” AND TRUST ME HONEY….I HAVE SEEN MANY MANY MANY MANY DARK SKINNED BRAZILIANS …THEY EVEN SURPASS THE DARK SKINNED AMERICANS

DOUGLASS SILVA IS AN EXAMPLE

THERE are many many dark skinned women that i saw except you wanna tell me I was blind because i saw many dark-skinned Brazilians and pardos….Rename this to MOST BEAUTIFUL PARDOS AND make a new list for the beauties in Black Brazilian women because most of them are more European than African

YOU REALLY JUST INSULTED THE BEAUTY OF BLACK WOMEN

SHAME ON YOU
SHAME ON YOU
SHAME ON YOU

I am so pissed eveRytime I see this list and i think to myself there is no way these women are black and this is just AN INSULT TO US BLACK WOMEN

ABAGOND, YOU DEFINATELY DON’T KNOW WHAT A BLACK WOMEN LOOKS LIKE

DO ME A FAVOR, AND GO TO GOOGLE AND GOOGLE IN “GENEVIEVE NNAJI”, SHE IS A NIGERIAN ACTRESS…SHE IS AN EXAMPLE OF BLACK BEAUTY…WHEN YOU LEARN MORE ON WHAT BLACK WOMEN LOOK LIKE THEN CAN YOU MAKE A NEW LIST BEACAUSE HONESTLY SPEAKING MOSTLY OF THESE WOMEN DON’T LOOK LIKE BLACK WOMEN …

WHAT A SHAME…AND I HAVE SEEN SO MANY MANY DARK-SKINNED BEAUTIFUL BRAZILIAN GIRLS….

anyways, you just spoiled my day

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on Tue Apr 22nd 2008 at 17:08:54 Lisa

anyways…after reading with some of your post i figured hey the list is not that bad but please pitanga is not Black neither is she white but MIXED…so pealse when next time you make such a post on black beauty, please post the real deal and I mean the BLACK BEAUTY…..There are so many dark-skinned brazilian women who are just damn beautiful…this post does not demonstrate their beauty

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on Tue Apr 22nd 2008 at 19:41:45 Lisa

@abagond,

i may have been rude here BUT I APOLOGIZE but I would really love if people appreciate the beauty of a black woman…because to me its like you are telling us we need to be look light to be considered beautiful….and I can assure you that you need to visit countries in Africa to really know what I’m talking about….Black women from Africa are beautiful dark, light and brown….

anyways everyone has their preference but again I APOLOGIZE.

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on Tue Apr 22nd 2008 at 19:54:53 Lisa

Adriana Bom bom, Tais araujo, Rojane Fabrique and Valquiro Robeeiro are JUST BEAUTIFUL . No word to describe their beauty and Adrina Bom bom has a fantastic body

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on Thu May 29th 2008 at 09:47:00 JJ

Lisa – instead of complaining, make a list and collaborate with the people that made this initial list. I am sure this list they have made is not set in stone and can be added/changed/improved.

Don’t be a hater, collaborate and get things correct. No on knows everything, we all could do with more education.

Educate, don’t fuss and fight. Life’s too full of fighting already, don’t be one of them. Plus, it’s less stresfull.

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on Thu May 29th 2008 at 23:11:40 abagond

I made and maintain this list. I am open to suggestions. Nothing is cast in stone.

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on Tue Jun 10th 2008 at 01:13:53 Lola

I THINK THIS IS AN INSULT TO ALL BLACK WOMEN AROUD THE WORLD TO BE PUT ON A LIST AND SAY WHO IS BLACK AND WHO IS WHITE THEY ARE BRAZILIAN AND THAT IS IT . AND YOU KNOW WHAT I AM A PROUD BLACK WOMEN OF, NIGERIAN,JAMAICAN AND AFRO-BRAZIALIAN HERITAGE TO WHOEVER WROTE THIS LIST YOU SHOULD TAKE AND STUFF IT UP YOUR WHITE ASS,

KISS MY NATURAL BLACK ASS BITCH !!!!!!!

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on Wed Jun 11th 2008 at 03:10:17 abagond

I know there is something I am not understanding here: why all the anger and upset about dividing Brazilian women into black (Afro-Brazilian) and white? First it was Lisa and now it is Lola.

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on Thu Jun 12th 2008 at 17:16:00 Love

When I came across this page, I was initially searching the topic, WHY DO WOMEN GET JEALOUS OF OTHER BEAUTIFUL WOMEN, and I was shocked at the replies from Lisa, whom I feel comments are outrageous, and sounds a little obessed, and carriers a tone of jealousy and insecurity about herself, and complete ignorance to what black heritage is.

Lisa, I feel you are too stuck in color, and the color spectrum of black peoples ranges from the darkest blacks, to the lightest browns. Being black is not just color, it is an experience!

I am a true believer in the one-drop rule, but it has been disputed, and unique only to blacks in America. But, it is my choice to embrace this rule, because I am proud on my African ancestry, and appreciate and enjoy the beauty of the black color spectrum, and do not deny anyone from claiming their blackness, however much or however little.

HERE IS AN EXCERPT FROM AN ARTICLE I THINK IS HELPFUL ON THIS TOPIC:

“Not only does the one-drop rule apply to no other group than American blacks, but apparently the rule is unique in that it is found only in the United States and not in any other nation in the world. In fact, definitions of who is black vary quite sharply from country to country, and for this reason people in other countries often express consternation about our definition. James Baldwin relates a revealing incident that occurred in 1956 at the Conference of Negro-African Writers and Artists held in Paris. The head of the delegation of writers and artists from the United States was John Davis. The French chairperson introduced Davis and then asked him why he considered himself Negro, since he certainly did not look like one. Baldwin wrote, “He is a Negro, of course, from the remarkable legal point of view which obtains in the United States, but more importantly, as he tried to make clear to his interlocutor, he was a Negro by choice and by depth of involvement–by experience, in fact.”

TO READ MORE OF THIS ARTICLE GO TO:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

Much Luv!

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on Thu Jun 12th 2008 at 23:26:41 abagond

Good point. Thanks.

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on Mon Jun 30th 2008 at 02:46:33 beautifulblackone

I was searching for beautiful dark skin black women. I clicked on this link. These are not dark skin black women. Only one of them is. Are you kidding me. I agree with Lola and Lisa. Dude get real.

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on Mon Jun 30th 2008 at 02:52:52 beautifulblackone

Dark skin is milk chocolate, dark chocolate etc. I am the complextin of a milk chocolate candy bar. And I can hold my own up against any of these women. I was just looking for other women that look like me. I always here from guys, and others,they’ve never seen a woman as dark as me so beautiful and with my features. Again these are not dark skin black women.

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on Mon Jun 30th 2008 at 02:53:32 abagond

Most Afro-Brazilians are light-skinned. There was way more mixing between the races than in North America. Blacks in America are as dark as they are because in the past the racism against them ran far deeper – though these days Brazil is now arguably more racist.

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on Mon Jul 7th 2008 at 23:00:09 Love

Beautiful Black One,

Just comparing the color of your skin to “MILK” chocolate, to me is an indication of an inferiority complex. Why do you have to be milk chocolate? Can’t you just be a beautful black woman? Why do you have to compare the color of your skin period? This is why racism is what it is, UGLY! Everyone is beautiful despite what their skin complexion is, and the initial thread was not about beautiful dark skinned women, it’s about beautiful BLACK WOMEN!

This smacks of the age old debate, light skinned vs dark skinned. I’m am so tired of it, and just wish that black people will stop perpetuating this non-sense and show the world that we are spectacular because we are so diverse AND BEAUTIFUL!!!

VISIT THIS SITE TO READ SOME RATIONAL AND IGNORANT COMMENTS ABOUT THIS TOPIC: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/395244/dark_skinned_vs_light_skinned_the_black.html

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on Fri Jul 11th 2008 at 05:49:56 nelo

“I MEAN LIKE AFRICANS”

That was ignorant. I’m incredibly Nigerian and I’m light-skinned. Not all black people have the same melanin levels.

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on Sun Aug 17th 2008 at 23:31:54 akire

I totally agree with nelo, not all black people are dark, they come in every shade and colour n the comment “I mean like Africans” is very ignorant. being black is not just about what shade you are, it’s about heritage and “the experience” lol, and it also depends what each individual considers themselves as, e.g. my mother is extremely light skinned almost yellow in her skin tone, (she’s 1/4 Spanish 3/4 Nigerian), but she considers herself as a black African, even though a lot of people would think she was Asian or Mediterranean, because she is proud of her culture and her African heritage… the one drop rule also applies in great Britain, a lot of mixed raced people(black and white) consider themselves as black and it is excepted, not because of their colour, but because of how they relate to each other and are proud of where they come from. I have no real problem with the list really, I suppose it’s abagond’s personal opinion on beauty, the only assumption that was made was that here all afro-Brazilians were to be considered as black. Nevertheless I’m glad that all afro Brazilians and their black heritage are appreciated in this way whatever shade they are. I think this should be a celebration of black heritage i.e. they have black in them AND they are beautiful.

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on Mon Aug 18th 2008 at 19:23:59 abagond

It is just my opinion about beauty. I chose “Afro-Brazilian” because that is close to the North American idea of “black”, even though it is not quite the same.

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on Sat Aug 23rd 2008 at 03:10:14 Love

Abagond,

There is NO need for you to explain, or make excuses, and I did not say EXCUSES disrespectfully, I totally respect you, because, as a college educated black woman, I know how the topic, regardless of how specific, when it deals with just the sub-topic of BLACK HERITAGE, it can get people heated and start something nasty, fists flyin’, and BLACK HAIR pullin’…because of the deep seeds that have been sown against being black, black qualites, UNIQUENESS, OR anything black in general,and us as promoters and mediators, we want to celebrate, and uphold our BLACKNESS, AND, keep the peace…but we know…black is beautiful, AND beautiful is BLACK!!!…in all it’s guises…No matter where we are in this WORLD, AND, no matter how sutbborn some of us may be about the issue, STILL FEEL UNITED, NO matter what our nationality may be…we are black…BLACK PEOPLE…and PROUD!!!

BOTTOM LINE…

But, I have a question to ask…(I’m not trying to flip the issue), why is it that nowadays, people of European descent, or other nationalites,(and leave out all the history of why things are the way they are); recent generations, love us, all of us, every shade and nationality, more than we love ourselves?

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on Sat Aug 23rd 2008 at 03:33:42 Love

With that said, my BLACK BROTHA’S AND SISTA’S EVERYWHERE..it’s time to celebrate and REJOICE!!! BARACK OBAMA will be the 1st BLACK PRESIDENT OF THE USA!! And, that means a lot to all BLACK PEOPLE EVERYWHERE!! He represents the wonder of what we are, intelligent, resourceful, loving, giving, concerned, hardworking, LEADERSHIP!!! Lets help represent with him by showing how wonderful we are…WE ARE SPECTACULAR!!! AND LET’S REJOICE WITH ALL PEOPLES WHO SUPPORT AND LOVE US TOO, AND WANT TO BREAK THE MONOTONY, AND JUDGE PEOPLE NOT ONLY BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, BUT BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR OF THEIR CHARACTER…

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on Sat Aug 23rd 2008 at 03:54:27 Love

Oh, and I wanted to mention that my oldest brother, who is 5’9″ has the darkest skin of all my siblings; smart, and has served in the USA military for 15 years, and has the biggest house, LOL!!! And my oldest sister, who is 5’4′, is considred “dark-skinned” and has hazel eyes, and has 8 wonderful children; one of her girls looks like Naomi Campbell, and is 6 feet tall and can be a model just like my boo! And, my baby brother is considered “medium-skinned, and is 6’1”, and we can’t keep the ladies off him, but he just married his highschool sweetheart! And me, the middle child; I’m considered “light-skinned” or “redbone” with green eyes” and my son is “medium-skinned” tall and sexy and we can’t keep the ladies off of him, AND WE ALL HAVE THE SAME MOTHER AND FATHER!!! I’m telling you this to show you how unique and diverse our seed is…

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on Sat Aug 23rd 2008 at 06:20:15 mynameismyname

I disagree with you, Abagond, on most Afro-Brazilians being “light skinned”. Do Pele and Serge Jorge or many of the participants on “Afro Brazilian Lives 2” look “light and bright”?

Also, check out the film “City of God” or the classic “Black Orpheus”, both noted black Brazilian films and a variety of phenotypes within the cast!

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on Sun Aug 24th 2008 at 00:09:32 abagond

I think it is dangerous to draw conclusions from what you see on film. After all, I would hate to think that anyone would draw conclusions about Black America from Hollywood films!

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on Sun Aug 24th 2008 at 00:13:24 abagond

I have not been to Brazil, but I do know that 6% of the people are “black” and 43% are mixed. Most of the mixed would be considered black in America because of the One Drop Rule – like many of the women above.

It also depends on what part of Brazil you are in. There is way more African blood in the people in the north-east than in the south.

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on Sun Aug 24th 2008 at 00:22:30 abagond

Love said:

But, I have a question to ask…(I’m not trying to flip the issue), why is it that nowadays, people of European descent, or other nationalites,(and leave out all the history of why things are the way they are); recent generations, love us, all of us, every shade and nationality, more than we love ourselves?

Well, I disagree. For all the self-hatred, blacks still like blacks way more than whites do. At least in America.

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on Sun Aug 24th 2008 at 04:15:39 mynameismyname

Of course, I wasn’t suggesting that films indicate what people look like. I was giving a simple visual. But then again, many on this board and all over, seem to draw broad conclusions based on certain media images that they see. Catch 22, no?

Also “mixed” in Brazil and many Latin American countries is far more broad than in the U.S. In Brazil and D.R., I would be considered “mixed/mulatto” because while I don’t come from an interracial union, I have “recent” non-African blood. Quincy Jones and Oprah Winfrey would also be called “mixed” because although they both are predominately African, they have “other” admixture.

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on Sun Aug 24th 2008 at 21:35:13 abagond

People do draw conclusions from media images! That was my attempt at irony.

Mixed is far broader in those countries. I think it is because they do not have the One Drop Rule.

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on Mon Aug 25th 2008 at 16:53:20 big nance

I dont know why everyone gets upset.. What is “Black”..? It is a racial identity that one has. Some connect to it some don’t. Either way, there are VERY VERY few people of african decent that are 100% pure. If you are of african decent chances are you are mixed somewhere with portugese, white or something else. ESPECIALLY due to slave trading where untold amounts of YOUR people were bought and sold for whatever purpose. As for Americans.. They are all mixed.. same with brazillians, and Dominicans (even though they dont may not want to be black)… It amazes me why people run from their african blood when it is the very thing that makes them BEAUTIFUL!!!! They did a good job on some of us but not all..!!

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on Tue Aug 26th 2008 at 16:42:43 abagond

I agree: “It amazes me why people run from their african blood when it is the very thing that makes them BEAUTIFUL!!!!”

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on Wed Aug 27th 2008 at 01:46:53 Dogon

First of all the correct term is Afrikan Brazilian, pr Afro Brazilian,some women are light skin. Just cause they are light skin that doesnt mean that most of their family is not from Afrika. Even if these women are of mixed race In Amerika if they had american names they would be considered black/Afrkin becasue most of theyre family tree is Afrikan eVen if these women arent there are many other beautiful black females all over Brazil with Daker skin, just cause you have light skin doesnt mean your european,

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on Wed Aug 27th 2008 at 16:03:37 abagond

Right, if they grew up in America they would simply be black. If they visited New York they might be seen as Puerto Rican or Hispanic, some of them. In the North American taxonomy they are, strictly speaking, Latinos.

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on Wed Sep 3rd 2008 at 20:38:50 Marllon

Why isn’t Adriana Lima on this list? She is definitely one of the most beautiful black Brazilians as well.

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on Thu Sep 4th 2008 at 00:07:41 abagond

Is she Afro-Brazilian?

This list of famous Afro-Brazilians in the Portuguese Wikipedia does not list her:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Afro-brasileiros

If she is Afro-Brazilian I find it strange that she would be overlooked – she is one of the most famous Brazilians in the world.

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on Thu Sep 4th 2008 at 02:01:25 joe el (afro-latino)

TI’S 2008!!!!….you see black people every day!!…why when they see black people speack other languge rather than eglish!(& i have to say american people!,”people from the usa of america”and i mean born or raise in usa),always say “i thought she or he was black”….please!do they know what “black is”???…i think they are extremely confused!!….i believe english is an european language!,not african!!. 85%of the most beautyfull latin woman the you see on the “street”are a mix of african and euroean heritage!the “some people don’t want to understan”. even though a lot of them denie their african side!.to me 7 of this beautifull woman are black.

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on Thu Sep 4th 2008 at 11:38:56 abagond

So which three do you think are not black?

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on Fri Sep 5th 2008 at 21:42:57 Marllon

Yes, Adriana Lima is Afro-Brazilian. I’m Afro-Brazilian myself. Adriana Lima has stated that she is half white, a quarter black, and a quarter Native American (most likely Tupi). Her Wikipedia biography does states that she is of African descent. Look her up. She is not in the Afro-Brazilian category, because that’s editable, and many Brazilian white supremacists don’t want people knowing that she’s black so they edit that out. Wikipedia is not reliable, anyways. She has stated in several interviews that she’s of African descent. After all, she’s originally from Salvador, Bahia, which is also known as the “blackest” city in the Western Hemisphere.

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on Sat Sep 6th 2008 at 03:34:16 mynameismyname

Yeah, Lima has talked about her black grandmother several times, in past interviews. She has multiple black relatives, like many Brazilians of varying racial identities. I actually intially assumed that she was a straight ahead black woman when she first emerged in the US press years ago. But now, I think that she’s extremely racially ambigious.

And Marllon is correct, Wikipedia or any internet source is not very reliable.

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on Sat Sep 6th 2008 at 04:43:50 joe el (afro-latino)

I APOLOGIES!!..i didn’t seen ildi,camila & samantha’s pics!!i think the camila looks not even 20%,10% black!!!.but i know that girs with that look have some of african & native,in their blood.samantha looks like 20% to 30% black,ildi looks 50,50% black european….but i dont think that they are treat like blacks!

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on Sat Sep 6th 2008 at 05:04:07 Marllon

I discord with Joe. I think Camila looks about 30% black. Both of Camila’s parents are dark-skinned blacks. You need to see Camila in video, she looks much blacker in video than in pictures. I also think Alice Braga should be up in this, even though she’s probably less than 20% black, I still think she’s beautiful. Alice Braga is the niece of the saucy Sônia Braga, the self-identified black Brazilian actress.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 02:42:10 strangefruit

Abagond…
I think the reason as to why you got a lot of angry feedback from blk females posters is because of the insecurity most females suffer from (including myself @ times. And I see that angry feed back is becoming a trend on your posts on the topic of “Beauty”)… but IMO all but 2 women on this list are Black; the two that I believe are not are Pitanga and Silva. That is it. The overexaggeration that this list is an “insult to blk women” is infact just that; an overexaggeration. I am of Afro-Caribbean descent, both of my parents are native West Indians. I’m a first generation American and you have some black Americans who thinks that West Indian aren’t Black … using the very SAME ignorance that effected Christopher Columbus when he saw the Native Americans and rudely called them “Indians” … tell me, why shouldn’t an Afro Brazilian woman not be considered blk? That makes absolutely no sense to me. It seems to me that whenever you (Abagond) what beauty is to YOU on YOUR blog, females get angry. Particularly Black females …. sisters, there is absolutely NOTHING to be angry about. There is nothing wrong with the post. It is rooted in opinion and everyone is rightfully entitled to that. Why get angry? Idk. Blk American means of African descent, Afro Caribbean means of African descent, Afro Brazilian means of African descent, Afro Panamanian, Afro South American, etc, etc. Embrace a brother or sister who doesn’t speak your language, share your culture or customs .. It does not matter. It is all one love. AND these women are all beautiful. My favorite is Adriana BomBom. Talk about spunk! Keep it up, Abagond. Believe or not, your blog is positive. I take about an hr out of my own day just to read it. Good day.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 03:14:35 abagond

Thanks, and thanks for understanding. The angry comments surprised me at first: I am just one man with one opinion and one blog! You would think I ran Vogue magazine or something.

I agree that anyone who is part black is black. It is not as if mixed people are not subjected to racism too, even in Brazil. I wish there were some part of the world where these things do not matter, but as I far as I know there is none.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 03:26:02 abagond

I added Adriana Lima! Just looking at her I could tell she is part black, but I did not know which side of the line she fell on in Brazil. The lines there are not quite like they are in America.

Now let us see how many comments I get telling me she is not black!!

I know for a fact that Pitanga considers herself Afro-Brazilian. I have seen her father too and he is as black as can be.

We know just how black Ildi Silva is by blood because the BBC tested her DNA:

19% black, especially Kenya and Cameroon
71% European, especially France
10% native Indian

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 03:28:34 abagond

Marllon, thanks for the suggestion of Alice Braga. I remember her mother, Sonia Braga, from “Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands”. She was a beauty. For a long time she was my idea of what Brazilian women were like!

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 05:35:04 Marllon

You’re welcome, agabond. And I agree that part black folk are most definitely black as well! I’m Afro-Brazilian, I was born to a Brazilian mother of European descent and a Brazilian father of mixed Afro-Brazilian, European, and Native American descent, but I self-identify as black, even if I may be only 20% to 25%, as you can see, Ildi Silva is less than 20%, but is more passable as a black woman more than anything else. Being black is definitely not about dark skin color, like some of the jealous female posters above would love to believe. Jennifer Beals is half black, and Adriana Lima and I look much ethnically African than her, despite being less genetically black. Look at Tiger Woods and Traci Bingham, they may be only one quarter black, yet the media views them as black people, so how are Wentworth Miller and Carly Simon not be considered black when they’re just as genetically black, you know? It seems like some people want to make it a skin color issue. I have a light olive complexion, and yes, I AM BLACK, despite my admixture. I definitely can’t pass for white, so why should I be resorted to remain in limbo? If it’s going to be one or other (which people will make me decide), then I choose black. If people don’t want to accept me as what I self-identify with, then that’s their issue.

Yes, Camila Pitanga is most definitely black, both her parents are dark-skinned blacks. It’s actually kind of interesting how two dark-skinned black parents who look predominantly black more than anything else produce such a different-looking daughter. it’s all about distant admixture which most blacks in the New World have.

By the way, just so you know, Alice Braga is the niece of Sônia Braga, not daughter, and I agree, they’re both remarkable beauties!

Also, I was just wondering, but are you sure that the majority of Ildi Silva’ European ancestry is French? i would figure mostly Portuguese, since the European admixture in most mixed-race Brazilians is mostly Portuguese. I know she has French and Dutch ancestry as well, but I would figure that her European ancestry was made up of mostly Portuguese background.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 05:37:14 Marllon

By the way, my favorite women in this list are Taís Araújo and Camila Pitanga, they’re simply extraordinary women.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 06:02:20 abagond

Most people in Brazil, from what I understand, are part African and part Portuguese. Even people who think of themselves as being purely black or purely white.

In the case of Ildi Silva, she knew she was part Dutch on her mother’s side. The French comes from her father’s side. Genes were found in the Y chromosome of her brothers that are most commonly found in France.

I read about it here (in Portuguese):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/reporterbbc/story/2007/05/070514_dna_ildisilva_cg.shtml

That page has links to other famous Brazilians and what their DNA showed. It is pretty clear that you cannot tell how African someone is by the darkness of his skin. It is not that simple.

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on Mon Sep 8th 2008 at 06:35:52 Marllon

Yes, 86% of Brazilians do have have at least both African and Portuguese ancestry in their DNA.

I have that article already in my favorites haha, but it doesn’t state the majority of Ildi Silva’s European background is French, it just says that her patrilineal lineage comes from a French male ancestor. Don’t the French look like the Portuguese already? I always thought they looked indistinguishable from one another, since they’re both Latin Europeans. Although, I know her Dutch ancestry wouldn’t fall in the same category. Ildi Silva is proof that skin color does not matter, because as you can see she is only one fifth black, yet her skin is much darker, whereas there are people like Jennifer Beals who’s obviously more genetically black, but yet looks predominantly Caucasian unlike Ildi Silva, who is 71.3% European, but would never pass for a white woman. I’m just as genetically black as Ildi Silva, if not more, even though I may not look as “black” as her.

Long live the African gene!

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 02:05:01 strangefruit

“Ildi Silva, who is 71.3% European, but would never pass for a white woman” … Marllon, I disagree with you. Silva has European features. Thus, she could pass for a White woman. With her hair straightened she looks like a white woman with olive skin (they have different tones, as well). Its arguable, but my opinion nevertheless. Same goes for Adriana Lima, had she never mentioned that she was part African a soul could not tell because yes, percentage in DNA does matter. Even in America. It does in fact sculpt the way one looks. Yes, these women (Silva and Lima) are black …. but they are predominantly white– and as much as you can’t take being black away from them you can’t take being white either– no matter what they identify themselves as. Same goes for you Marllon — especially since you don’t look as “black” as Silva (poor choice of words by the way) who IMO doesn’t even look that genetically inclined to her African heritage, then you are in fact a white woman – and society will see you as such, unless you walk around with a sign on your forehead that says “Part African” … not coming @ you Marllon. I think you are an extremely intelligent being (it comes across that way @least) some of your points (like mine) are just very arguable. And yes you are right, being black isn’t about skin color … neither is White. I have yet to see a white person that actually looks like the color white. They are all different colors as well; red when angry, gray when cold, orange when sun burned, etc. Etc. I don’t think Adriana Lima has African features either. As a matter of fact IMO there is nothing ethnic about Lima. She is beautiful all the same, she doesn’t have 2 look ethnic. IMO there are beautiful White woman. Peace.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 02:48:44 mynameismyname

I agree w/ Marllon, genotype and phenotype do not always correlate. I actually pointed that out a while ago in a past post on this site.

Yet, Tiger Woods and Traci Bingham are more than a quarter black. Both of Bingham’s parents are black. And Earl Woods, Tiger’s late father, was predominately African. As I typed in another post tonight, much of the info on the internet on celebs or any subject, really, is not always correct. It has to come from the person’s mouth or at least something reputable.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 03:41:29 Marllon

I don’t know where you live strangefruit, but I live in the USA, and Ildi Silva would definitely be assumed for a black woman before she would for a white woman. And noticed that I used quotation marks when I said that I don’t look as “black” as her, meaning don’t look as stereotypically ethnic in African features, like her skin complexion. As for Adriana Lima, I discord when you say she doesn’t resemble her African ancestry, because she does, she has full lips, olive skin, and her natural hair is very curly, all of which are most likely passed down with help of African ancestry.

Mynameismyname, according to both of Tiger Wood’s and Traci Bingham’s online biographies both of them are only quarter black, since Tiger Wood’s father was ½ black, ¼ Native American, and ¼ Chinese American, and Traci Bingham’s mother being ½ black and ½ Italian American, but both Tiger and Traci definitely look obviously black despite only being a quarter. I identify Tiger Woods, Traci Bingham, and all people who are part black to be black, unless if they’re less than 10% when it’s hardly noticeable or not not even noticeable at all.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 03:45:18 Marllon

I agree, but Tiger Woods has mentioned his full background, so the online reports on his ancestry is confirmed to be true by Tiger Wood’s own statements. As for Traci Bingham, it has never been confirmed by her, so you got me there.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 05:01:39 mynameismyname

Both of Bingham’s parents are black, I’ve seen photos of them. She’s from Mass, right next to where I stay. Trust me, she’s 100% Afro American, opposed to 100% African …which few New World Blacks are, regardless of all physical evidence.

Woods …he’s more than a quarter. I say that because Earl Woods has other kids from his marriages with black women and they “look” wholly “black”. I’ll have to find photos of Earl’s family. Earl, most realistically, was a typical Afro American in that he was predom. African w/ some moderate admixture (Chinese, Euro).

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 05:03:30 mynameismyname

And also, many African Americans tend to claim Native American ancestry when the national admixture average for such heritage is 3%. I have a STRONG suspiscions that the Woods are some of those. Probably only a quarter of AAs have significant Native history.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 21:16:08 strangefruit

“I don’t know where you live strangefruit, but I live in the USA, and Ildi Silva would definitely be assumed for a black woman before she would for a white woman.” … I live in NYC … and I disagree. I am predominantly black, meaning if you saw me you’d know right off the bat that I am black. I have full lips, Adriana Lima does not IMO. But what’s your point? Angelina Jolie’s lips are full (a lot more fuller than Lima’s … as a matter fact, Lima’s lips are plump not full and most definitely not African) and she’s white… isn’t she? When you are PREDOMINANTLY something, it shows. That is not from the bias point of views of scientist but from natural observation. Idli Silva is a white woman. Black Americans adaptation of racist Jim Crow laws (“one drop of black blood and you’re black”) is just that, racist. However I do feel as if blacks are more accepting when it comes to race, whereas whites are not which is why many, many blacks considers ppl who are mixed with black.. Black. I do as well but not to that extreme. I know every woman on this list is mixed with at least 1/5 of something … but most of these women with the exception of Silva and Lima are predominantly black which makes them black. Majority rules. 🙂 And Olive skin does not mean African ancestry… you have got to be kidding me lol. Plenty of Whites have olive skin. As a matter of fact, black Africans do not have olive skin. And … I most definitely would not know what her hair looks like in its natural state (if it isn’t in her natural state already) because “if” ( I somewhat doubt the authencity of that statement) she does have naturally curly hair she has it straightened like me … but, you can still pretty much tell that I am black. With Adriana Lima or Silva you can not. You can reply to this msg with your scientific “facts” but trust, we won’t get anywhere. We will only agree to disagree. I don’t have much time for either (agreeing or disagreeing) so stick to your opinion. I am already sticking to mine. Now seriously, good day 🙂 Abagond … keep up the good work … I still agree with the list. They are black… but they are white too… predominantly, and yes… that matters.

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on Tue Sep 9th 2008 at 23:04:29 Marllon

Well, I’ll politely agree to disagree. 🙂

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on Wed Sep 10th 2008 at 04:06:15 mynameismyname

I’m with you Marllon. Strangefruit’s perspective is distinctively African American female, meaning that there’s a sense of devaluation that shapes how she sees other blacks as well as a general ignorance of black African phenotypical diversity. You just have to take it for what it is.

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on Wed Sep 10th 2008 at 19:32:19 strangefruit

Mynameismyname…
Your claim holds no merit whatsoever and you just generalized an entire race of females. I’d call that ignorant. Your posts aren’t relevant to me… which is why I politely skip over them. Save the scientific mumbo jumbo for someone else… ok? It was a scientist that said Saartjie Baartman was the missing link between humans and animals … I question everything scientists say. Besides my comments comes from general observations… what I see. Not what scientist “conclude”, but what I see. Diversity I know is apart of the African race. As a matter of fact diversity can be found in ANY race … no two persons are exactly alike. Would you not call that diverse? Fair skin is not a general African trait. Get over it. Long, pointy noses aren’t either — in general. You can miss me with that African-American woman “distinct” point of view because like I’ve stated it holds no merit and now I’ll tell you why … for I am not “African-American.” Lol … I am afro Jamaican and afro Panamanian. So I guess you can call it a “distinct Afro Jamaican-Afro Panamanian point of view.”(if there is such thing… whatever happened to the diversity that you believe so strongly in? So wait… let me guess, people can look differently, but have the very same minds and point of views?) get real LOL. I was born in America, both my mom and dad are natives of their countries and I was raised in a Caribbean house hold. That matters. I also observe that you like me… you’re always addressing my post. Its amazing! I never thought feelings could develope so quickly. I guess I never bought into love @ first sight 😉 thank you for NOT adhering to the favor I asked of you in the other post. It is really becoming of you (insert sarcasm here) … now good day! And Marllon, thank you for politely disagreeing, it shows just how diverse we are– inside too! (Pun intended @ mynameis…) just hate that generalization. It was utterly rude.

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on Thu Sep 11th 2008 at 02:31:10 Marllon

Strangefruit, why don’t you consider yourself African American? I mean, you are an America of African descent, so isn’t the term applicable to you as well? I understand that you didn’t grow up in African American household, so I see why you may have cultural differences from most African Americans, since only a minority of African Americans have a background such as yours, making you more uncommon and different than most African Americans, but just because you’re not the average AA, does not make you any less AA. I understand you’re not of African American parentage, but African American simply means an American of African descent, may it be directly or indirectly. This is not an attack of any kind, I’m just curious. You have a right to self-identify as whatever you want, but it’s a curiosity of mine. My sister is an American with Afro-Brazilian ancestry, but isn’t she also African American since she was born on U.S. soil and is of African descent? I would think yes.

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on Thu Sep 11th 2008 at 10:08:42 abagond

Many Africans and West Indians who live in America would not call themselves “African Americans”. They are black, yes, they live in America, yes, but they do not see themselves as part of the African American – meaning Black American – culture. They are foreign to it, after all.

Some West Indians and Africans look down on Black Americans and so would hate for you to call them African Americans. I have seen churches become divided between West Indians and Black Americans.

So I could see some of the children of West Indian and African parents not calling themselves African Americans, even though culturally most of them are. But some of them are culturally white, so what does that make them?

“African American” is a deeply flawed word: it tries to paste an ethnic label over a race. That is why I rarely use it myself.

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on Thu Sep 11th 2008 at 10:28:42 abagond

I seriously doubt that Ildi Silva or Adriana Lima could pass for white in America, as white as they are. That One Drop Rule thing. Camila Pitanga maybe could if she set her mind to it, but she seems to have more sense than that.

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on Thu Sep 11th 2008 at 12:00:20 Marllon

Yes, Abagond, I understand, but I don’t think you see where I’m coming from. Yes, Africans, West Indians, Afro-Brazilians, and Afro-Latinos and other non-American blacks are indeed culturally different from black Americans. My point is that if you are born in the USA and have African ancestry, you are therefore African American, whether you fit into mainstream African American culture or not. I am not African American, because I was born in Brazil to Brazilian parents, but my sister is African American since she was born in the USA and is of African descent. African Americans are not only those whose ancestors were enslaved in the USA. The term African American merely means someone who is an American with African ancestry.

By the way, I agree with what you said about Adriana, Ildi, and Camila. I can’t see anyone here in the U.S. mistaking them for whites.

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on Thu Sep 11th 2008 at 20:56:16 strangefruit

Marllon. I do not consider myself African American because I just do not. I hope that explanation is enough for you .. But if not, here is why … I have knowledge of my recent heritage and couldn’t care to label myself as an African-American. It is a flawed term ( I agree with you Abagond) it implies that every black in America comes from African heritage which is true, but doesn’t every White in America comes from European heritage as well? Right. But they aren’t European Americans … they are Italian Americans, Irish Americans, German Americans… etc. Etc. (Even when they are born here) I am an African Jamaican Panamanian American. Which means I’m Afro Jamaican/Panamanian first and American second. Just like I am a black woman, yes, but I am a woman first and black second. And your “point” was flawed as well, even Whites know that every black in America is not African American which is why on applications it says of African American descent or black. But … what’s your point? I could be born in Puerto Rico with a Jamaican mom, Panamanian dad and still consider myself just that. I surely wouldn’t call myself Puerto Rican! Lol … just stop. Your controlling ideas aren’t backed by strong points and it isn’t becoming … as for you Abagond, a long time ago I told myself that hypocrisy manifests itself everywhere (even inside of me) and … I was right. Here is a comment from you on your blog of an opposite title to this one “I removed Ana Beatriz Barros and Adriana Lima since they are not white but mixed, even though they seemed pretty much white to me as a North American.” However … I won’t elaborate because I do somewhat agree with you about Silva. I just think she is White first (71% white @ that) black second. She is arguable though. Won’t fight you on that point. I like your new post too … Maria Shriver looks wrinkled lol but I could imagine her beauty in its youth. She most definitely is beautiful. However … I am positive you’ll get some static in your choice to put her on there. That picture … lol. I got your point though. Keep up the positive work. It matters. 😉

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on Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 04:00:45 abagond

Thanks for your encouragement. Yes, I am a bit concerned about Maria too.

Thanks for quoting me back to myself about Adriana Lima!! Wow. Good call. It just shows how on the fence she is to me. Ana Beatriz Barros is another one like that.

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on Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 04:06:08 abagond

Marllon: Well, it depends what meaning you put to “African American”. In the strict sense you are right. But since it has been pushed as an ethnic label, like “Italian-American”, some black foreigners who live in America do not apply “African American” to themselves, even if they came from Africa!

More here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/african-american/

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on Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 07:42:59 Marllon

I wasn’t talking about foreigners, guys. I was talking about people born in the U.S., I don’t consider black foreigners to be African Americans at all. I’m a black foreigner in the U.S. and I do not view myself as African American, but I do view my U.S.-born sister as African American.

As for you, strangefruit, I don’t have any controlling ideas, I’m trying to be as polite as possible, but you seem to only reply harshly. I did say you have a right to self-identify yourself. Can’t we just have different opinions and accept that. It seems like you get perturbed whenever I ask you something. Whatever.

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on Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 11:07:29 mynameismyname

I agree w/ you guys, the term “African American” is quite flawed, it’s very vague. Many African immigrants call themselves, correctly, Nigerian Americans or Egyptian Americans and so forth though, to make a distinction between black Americans and honor their actual homeland.

I used to have a science teacher who was a white South African woman. She used to half-jokingly say “I truly am an African American”, that’s how vague that term is. I mean, was she wrong?

Marllon is correct though. I have seen some Haitians and some second-gen African immigrants call themselves African Americans. After all, half-Kenyan Barack Obama proudly calls himself African American. Technically, in his case, the term fits him perfectly.

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on Fri Sep 12th 2008 at 16:24:45 abagond

Marllon:

You said:

I’m a black foreigner in the U.S. and I do not view myself as African American, but I do view my U.S.-born sister as African American.

I agree with that. And I agree with mynameismyname that if you were born in Africa, it is much better to say you are Nigerian American or whatever.

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on Sat Sep 13th 2008 at 00:59:23 strangefruit

It doesn’t matter where you was born. Not in my opinion. What matters is the blood running through your vains. I don’t see why black Americans can’t be distinct about their heritage. I’m not African-American. I just don’t feel that way @ all. Period. So what you are saying is that I should identify myself as an African-American although my mother speaks with an accent and my dad a completely different language all together? No. I never do as a matter of fact. When ppl ask “where are you from?” and I say “Brooklyn” and they say no, no I meant your background I say “oh … I’m Jamaican and Panamanian.” Not African American. I am pretty sure they can tell that I am black so what was the point of asking me my background? I’ll tell you why … because even they know that not all blacks in America are African American, if they didn’t know that they’d never ask that question. Couldn’t they look and see that I am black and from America and say “oh, she’s African-American?” I’m pretty sure they could … they just have a lot more sense than that. A girlfriend of mine has an African American mother, a Guyanese father … even she does not identify as an African American. My boyfriend was born in the states but a product of a Guyanese union. He’s clearly part Indian, which is common in Guyana. Should he call himself an African American too? Or should he be called an African Indian American? I see your point though, but mine is I’d rather be called what I am … black and that is it. Not a “politically correct” term. Whites are called White, blacks in America are called African-Americans. If you don’t see the flaws in that then I don’t know what to tell you. And I must admit, Marllon … IMO you came off a little annoying, which is why I have been coming off so harshly towards you. I apologize about that. I truly do. Let me pick a bone with you though… why do you consider yourself a black foreigner? That means you are not mixed … am I right? As for you Abagond … LOL. Sry … had to call you out on SOMETHING because you seem right in most cases. That is just not normal… though it is nice.

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on Wed Sep 17th 2008 at 20:56:21 besnej

I’m a White American (as in the straight off the farm doesn’t have any idea what his ancestry is except my last name is English or Scottish) who lives in Brazil. I would for sure consider Adriana Lima white. She is the same complexion as my grandmother and same feature types and my grandmother was considered white. I don’t think she looks any less white than your average Italian or Portuguese. Of course that is only my perspective, my girlfriend’s mom, who is very visibly mixed race (White, Black and Indian) argues that one of the first non white soap opera stars to actually be promoted as a sex symbol is this guy named Paulo Zulu who to me just looks like a southern European.

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on Thu Sep 18th 2008 at 11:21:38 abagond

Paulo Zulu could easily pass for Italian in the States.

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on Sat Sep 20th 2008 at 21:25:49 John

Marllon Says:
Tue 9 Sep 2008 at 03:41:29

“As for Adriana Lima, I discord when you say she doesn’t resemble her African ancestry, because she does, she has full lips, olive skin, and her natural hair is very curly, all of which are most likely passed down with help of African ancestry.”

I think I agree.

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on Sun Sep 21st 2008 at 03:34:05 Marllon

I’m going to stand by what I said. If you are an American with African ancestry, then you are an African American, may you be directly or indirectly Afro-descended. Strangefruit may not be the average, standard, mainstream African American, but she is still African American, but since she doesn’t self-identify as such, then I’ll refrain from calling her such.

“So what you are saying is that I should identify myself as an African-American although my mother speaks with an accent and my dad a completely different language all together? No.”

Your mother’s accent and your father’s first language doesn’t determine you’re not African American. I grew up in a Portuguese-speaking household and my younger sister is definitely African American, and she wouldn’t deny it either. Gina Torres, La La Vazquez, Alfonso Ribeiro, and Tatyana Ali are all African Americans despite not having African American parents.

“Let me pick a bone with you though… why do you consider yourself a black foreigner? That means you are not mixed … am I right?”

I am still black despite my genetic admixture. The majority of mixed-race people who are mixed with black in the USA are commonly viewed as black rather than “mixed”. A mixed-race identity does not exist in documents here in the U.S. It’s not a big deal and I can care less.

As for Paulo Zulu, I read that 99.5% of his genotype is sub-Saharan African, which I find VERY hard to believe. I think the article must’ve misinterpreted, because I believe that it probably meant to say that one of his parent’s genome is 99.5%, subsequently making him 48.25% black, since I find it almost nearly impossible to believe that his genetic makeup is 99.5% black. I consider Paulo Zulu black, and I believe he self-identifies as black as well. His African features look really visible on a cover he graced for Brazilian Elle.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 17:04:15 strangefruit

“Gina Torres, La La Vazquez, Alfonso Ribeiro, and Tatyana Ali are all African Americans despite not having African American parents.” Marllon, you go ahead and tell LaLa Vasquez what she is and she’d damn you for calling her an African-American. She’s Puerto Rican– and rightfully so. I hope you know how very foolish you sound … you’re implying that all Hispanics born in America are African-American (considering I know for a fact that Latinos/Latinas are of African descent. Even if just a little) [FYI I am not Hispanic as all of the examples you used were Latina women… what were you trying to say?] I hope you can see the flaws in your claims. If you can not, I will gladly help you. If this were true — that all people born in the U.S. With African ancestry (directly or indirectly, in your words) are African-American then there would be absolutely NO need for the term “Hispanic.” As we’d all be African-American and labeled as such (singing “kumbaya” … lol … I have such a corny sense of humor sry) … yeah, but anyway I guess there is no need to further elaborate.
You said that you’d refrain from calling me an “African-American” but in the next paragraph you go to great lengths to prove (in which IMO you didn’t prove anything) that I am such? What an oxymoron. I am of great African descent. I am full black. Not part black, not 25% black … but full black and 0% African American. You’re black too, right? 20-25% to be exact. (You are right … 20-25% black isn’t a big deal, not in comparison to the 80-75% white lol) Stand by your opinion, I’ve been standing firmly behind mine. I believe I told you that in an earlier post … no?

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 18:13:55 Marllon

I said I would never refer to you or someone like you as African American if they didn’t self-identify as such but in the back of my mind I can’t help but still think ‘African American’, so it’s not an oxymoron. The terminology7 ‘Hispanic’ was coined in order to identify the of Mexican mestizos in the U.S., and because they had a distinct look, they coined the look ‘Hispanic’. If all Hispanics were monoracial, then the label ‘Hispanic’ wouldn’t be necessary in papers. I am black, regardless of percentages, there plenty of celebrities who are 20%-25% and self-identify as black. I believe Halle Berry is going to raise her daughter as a black child.

“you’re implying that all Hispanics born in America are African-American (considering I know for a fact that Latinos/Latinas are of African descent. Even if just a little) [FYI I am not Hispanic as all of the examples you used were Latina women… what were you trying to say?]”

I used Latinas as examples, since you are half Latina yourself. I’m not implying anything. Clearly, not all U.S.-born Hispanics are black, just the black ones are African Americans. Not all Hispanics have black blood either, so you’re wrong there. You’ll encounter many Afro-Latinos in Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Uruguay, Colombia, and Venezuela.

“If this were true — that all people born in the U.S. With African ancestry (directly or indirectly, in your words) are African-American then there would be absolutely NO need for the term “Hispanic.”

Just because you’re Hispanic, it does not strip you from bein g African American as well. Keshia Knight Pulliam is of Jamaican American background, and as everyone knows, she proudly self-identifies as an African American woman.

My point is that you said that blacks born in the U.S. to immigrant ancestors are not African American, when of course they are. Maybe you don’t view yourself as African American, but any black American with parents from another country may self-identify as African American, because it’s what they are. To me, it just seems the terminology just doesn’t sit right with you, that maybe why you seem to reject it. Any black American with an immigrant background has the right to self-identify as African American if they wish to. The term ‘African American’ is applicable to all blacks born in the USA.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 22:54:18 dcnot420

you can not tell how much of any blood is in anyone based on looks.you could look like taye diggs and still be 70% white.i remember reading a article on a afro brazilian musician and he looked like a stereotypical west african his genetics test said that he was 67% white.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:02:20 dcnot420

like i hate when people that have a white parent and a black parent call themselves bi racial.bi mean 50/50.more than likely you are not half of either.like people on here trying to breakdown adriana lima like oh she is 25% black.get the fuck out of here.her immediate relatives(grandparents and parents)if they were pure then started mixing then yeah but when you use terms such as black and white in american ways then more than likely know you are not what you normally would be if from pure blooded parents.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:03:13 dcnot420

i meant no*

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:18:40 dcnot420

marllon,jessica beals is half “american”black half “american” white which means one of three things.1she is half or more gentically black and not half genetically white.2 half or more genetically white and not half genetically black.3 she is neither half black or half white.like i said before you cant go off of looks.i hate when people say stupid ish like she looks this and that.unless she takes a genetics test you dont know what she is.also i hate when people use fractions of what someone should be.you cant apply fractions because the people you try to apply fractions to are more than likely not what they normally would be.for ex:if someone has pure black grandparents on there moms side and one white and one black grandparent on there dad side.then the parents would be the mom 100% black and the dad 50% white and black. then the kid would be 25% white.that is under normal cicumstances but most peoples cases do not follow this.like adriana lima,her grandma was more than likely not 100% black and her other grandparenst were more than likely not pure white etc.so how are you gonna apply something such as fractions to them when they dont even come from a pure start to a mixed product.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:35:52 dcnot420

strangefruit looks and your dna dont form shit for real.if you are white and black from the americas your offspring if mixed can more than likely not be broke down into fractions such as 1/4this and 1/2 that.because they are white and black “socially” not gentically.for the most part no one is pure in the americas so how you going to break there mixed kids down into fractions.when referring to people like tiger woods and adriana lima they are “socially” a quarter black.meaning yeah they have one “socially” black grandparent and the rest are white or in tigers case asian and indian.that does not mean they are a quarter black gentically.adriana could really be 50% gentically black and 25% white and indian.and tiger could be really 40% black and 20% thai 20% chinese and 20 indian.that is the reason i hate the way race is in the americas cause you can be grouped with people just based on looks but gentically be totally different then your looks.for ex:it is possible for a kid that has 2 darksinned parents to gentically be 50% black and 50% white.but still come out looking more black then anything.a lot of so called bi kids really arent half of either and a lot of so called black white etc kids really could be bi racial genetically.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:37:53 dcnot420

lmao i kept saying gentically i meant genetically.

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:57:03 dcnot420

marllon are you the guy i talk to on youtube that had the video about being proud of your nappy hair

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on Wed Sep 24th 2008 at 23:58:14 dcnot420

also to benej a lot of italians spanish and portuguese have black blood.

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on Thu Sep 25th 2008 at 01:39:50 Marllon

Hi, dcnot420, yes I am. This is a mighty coincidence. But it seems like you’re restating a point I already made concerning how genotype and phenotype do not correlate. The name of that Afro-Brazilian musician is Neguinho da Beija Flor, his geetic makeup is approximately 67% European and 31% sub-Saharan African. Overall, I concur with everything you just said. I believe the average Portuguese has more sub-Saharan African blood than the majority of other Southern Europeans, with southern Spaniards (Andalusians) being a close second, and Sicilians third.

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on Thu Sep 25th 2008 at 04:55:09 strangefruit

“I believe Halle Berry is going to raise her daughter as a black child” … it doesn’t matter. Black is not a culture my love, how on earth could she raise her daughter “black?” lol. Then with all due respect, Bill Clinton is as black as he claims to be … oh and Madonna too. I’m sry … I just can’t! … lol… that was funny. Yeah, but anyway … most (if not all) Latinas/Latinos in America are of black descent (even if just a little … as I stated before. Have you ever been to the Bronx? Spanish Harlem (Washington heights)? Brooklyn? You couldn’t pay me 2 believe that Latinos aren’t racially mixed.) as a matter of fact … I was going to bring up some other good points but um… to be absolutely honest … idc. I’m tired. We can go back and forth with what I self identify with as well as what you self identify with but we’ll only agree to disagree (I believe I said that in an earlier post too) I’m tired of reiterating myself. Stop. Thanks. And dcnot420 … I would respond to your post, its just that (no disrespect) I can barely read it. I am sorry. Maybe it is me and not you. I do have terrible vision.

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on Thu Sep 25th 2008 at 05:31:40 Marllon

“Black is not a culture my love, how on earth could she raise her daughter “black?” lol.”

I’m completely aware that ‘black’ is not a culture. You’re misinterpreting my point. It’s obvious that I was talking about how she was going to raise her child to self-identify as in terms of ethnicity, which is most likely black. If you’re part black and you self-identify as such, then you’re black. Mariah Carey would have never been allowed to grace the cover of Ebony if society denied her as a black woman. In mainstream society, if you’re part black and strongly identify with it, then by all means you’re black. It’s just how it is here.

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on Thu Sep 25th 2008 at 18:40:54 dcnot420

marllon i know that genotype and phenotype do not correlate…one thing i hate about classism in brazil is they use the old white and black concept from racism and apply it to classism.they try to bs and say a poor white person is black and a rich black can be white.why cant a poor white be just that a poor white.and a rich black be just that a rich black.if brazilians wanted to show that classism’s color classifications and racism’s color classifications were not intertwined then why cant purple be rich and blue be poor.they kill me because its plain as day that they brought the white being rich and black being poor concept from racism to the classism concept.

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on Thu Sep 25th 2008 at 23:00:02 strangefruit

Ok, Marllon … good arguement. I totally understand where you are coming from. There comes a time when all good things must come to an end just as this good debate. I respect your knowledge and insight. Have a good one 😉

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on Sat Sep 27th 2008 at 13:25:04 dcnot420

strangefruit in your arguement about you not being african american.yes you are.if your parents were born in a differnt country and you were born here you are african american of jamaican and w/e descent.for ex:if i move to colombia today and have a kid that is born there my kid is a black colombian of black american descent.that shit kills me when people adopt there parents nationalty they werent even born there, or grew up there for a long time.also i hate how americans in general we have the tendency to claim w/e country of descent we are but we dont understand that when we go to our countries of descent they dont look at you as being one of them you are a black,white,etc american to them.if a mexican american goes to mexico today mexicans will view them as a gringo just like they would view me.that diont mean they wont find you similiar but i know for a fact they wont view you as the same}(for the most part).

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on Sun Sep 28th 2008 at 04:33:20 strangefruit

Dcnot420 … you’re late. I don’t care what people view me as. Whites may view me as just another n*gger … that makes me no different. It is not what other ppl see me as, but what I see myself as. That is it. That “shit” can kill you even more for all I care. And like I said, if that were the case then all ppl born in America with African descent would be African American. Including “full blood” Latinas/Latinos. Furthermore… you’re late. Its over guy. Your a couple of days too late man … its over. And plz, space your words out and capitalize. Its basic. Not that hard. << See. 🙂

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on Sun Sep 28th 2008 at 21:13:56 abagond

In practice, if you look black and grew up in America in a black neighbourhood, then it does not matter where your parents came from or what you self-identify as: most people – black, white and foreign – will see you as an African American, plain and simple.

If you look black but grew up in America in a Latino or white neighbourhood, then it might not be so simple. You will still be black, but not necessarily African American.

If you look racially ambiguous, then it will probably come down to self-identification.

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on Mon Sep 29th 2008 at 14:36:25 Denise

WoW abagond, I love your blogs. From the history to Celebrating black women… Thank U!

**big hug**

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on Tue Sep 30th 2008 at 04:44:56 abagond

Thanks for the hug!!!

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on Wed Oct 8th 2008 at 00:17:04 dcnot420

strangefruit i dont feel like capatalizing my shit so be it.i did space out my words.like i said if you werent born or lived in that country you are not them.you can classify yourself all you want to but if dont make no sense it dont make no sense.is there a timer on here i didnt know i was late.can you show me where it is at.

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on Wed Oct 8th 2008 at 00:55:32 dcnot420

also if that is the case then known of us are americans,being the fact that we all come from immigrants.but guess what that would make NO SENSE the reason we are who we are is because of ASSIMILATION.if you are a 1st generation you still have claims to the old country.but you are still a part of the new.like a 1st gen white dominican would be a white dominican american but his or her kid would be a white american of dominican descent or a white american dominican.the former sounds better than thelatter

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on Wed Oct 8th 2008 at 00:57:52 dcnot420

i meant to say known of us are white,black etc americans we are instead irish,nigerian,etc americans due to us comiing from immigrants.

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on Wed Oct 8th 2008 at 00:59:04 dcnot420

none and none* lol

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on Thu Oct 9th 2008 at 03:03:25 strangefruit

Ok and that is your opinion. And you can’t see the timer because its not on the page but rather inside of me. And yes … it is late … about a week or so late. My patience ran thin about a week ago. So yeah … you’re late, now later Dcnot420 and I am still not African American. I’m afro Jamaican/Panamanian. =) … yeah you wasted your breath [not literally of course] take care.

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on Sun Oct 12th 2008 at 17:57:47 dcnot420

strangefruit we can agree to disagree.you make some good points on here but others i dont agree with.also when a timer goes out dont that mean you’re finished(lol ur still responding to me even though your timer is out).

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on Wed Oct 22nd 2008 at 06:50:16 carlton

wow i’m suprised at the ignorance displayed to what is black, black isn’t a skin color to many people of lighter complexion who are of african descent. it’s our history, it’s our culture, but if we as a community have a problem with the term black maybe we should make a new term. and one more thing we should stop calling ourselves african this afro that, we are now americans, this is where our ancestor fought to break slavery, built many of these countries if not all, and when given a chance to return to africa said no we don’t know no africa we are americans, and i’m not talking about USA people, i’m talikng about all blacks and mulatto’s of north, south, caribbean, and central america, to be honest there isn’t any group of people more american than us, we have had heavy influences on many cultures and music in our countries, blacks in USA created hiphop and rock and roll, blacks in the caribbean created raggae, soca, carnival, and junkanoo, blacks in southern america have contributed to the majority of latin america culture if you look at brazils culture and food, actually look at the majority of south americas culture and food, we are the creators of all that is american, we should be proud and respect all with any number of african heritage as equal, but also treat our white, native, asian, american companions as equals aswell.

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on Thu Oct 23rd 2008 at 03:17:52 abagond

Right: the countries of North and South America are not as white as they like to imagine – their food, their music, everything is partly black.

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on Thu Nov 20th 2008 at 10:50:19 Everythingsblackthataintwhite.

I’ve read a lot of the comments on here and looked at the individual pictures of those on your list. And guess what they are beautiful BLACK women. all of them! And those people who disagree, need to ask themselves this one question. if they were members of your family would you still think the same way? Within my family i have these hues, and i love em all, not because one has hazel eyes or blue eyes or dark skin, or afro hair/ straight hair/dread locks ,or looks Black/asian/indian/white etc. I love em all, so you all need to stop this differentiating. THEY ARE BLACK Because they live it and feel it!

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on Tue Nov 25th 2008 at 07:40:02 josh

I am a black louisiana creole and all these women LOOK BLACK TO ME..in my family you can find people that look like all these women…the only exception would be camila pitanga…but the rest ARE DEFINITELY BLACK..where I am from, we don’t have that PARDO SHIT..pardo IS BLACK where I come from..

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on Tue Nov 25th 2008 at 07:44:38 josh

oh..but yeah…nevertheless, abagond should try to find to some darker women because they are JUST AS, IF NOT MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN BROWN AND LIGHTER BLACK WOMEN…so THEY SHOULD DEFINITELY BE INCLUDED..although not brazilians, examples include oluchi onweagba, kelly rowland, naomi campbell, gabrielle union, meagan good, and so on and so forth…

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on Tue Nov 25th 2008 at 07:50:56 josh

oh yeah..I forgot about lauryn hill, angela bassett, holly robinson peete, (former whitney houston) etc..

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on Tue Nov 25th 2008 at 07:51:18 josh

toni braxton

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on Wed Dec 3rd 2008 at 07:51:22 Nikki

I just wanna throw my 2 cents in to clarify the term “African American” since there seems to be some confusion. The term ‘African American’ was coined during the 60s or 70s during the civil rights movement. It was black Americans way to identify ourselves, as opposed to accepting or using the terms white America labeled us as (n*gger, colored, negro, etc. I have no problem w/ the word ‘Negro’ personally. Negro means black in Spanish; My only issue w/ the word is it sounds too similar to the “other” n word, but I guess that can’t be helped.) ‘African American’ (AA) generally refers to people born in America whose ancestors were brought to this country during the slave trade and forced into slavery. Generally black Americans who’s ancestors were slaves don’t know what country our ancestors were from. During slavery, we were cut off from our African culture, language, religion, country of origin, etc in the slave owners attempts to “de-Africanize” us. Unlike other ethnicities, all of that was taken away from us. All we know is they were from Africa, so we embrace the entire continent instead of a particular country. In contrast, Chinese Americans, Italian Americans, Mexican Americans, etc. who know the country their ancestors were from, we don’t. Now an African born in America who knows their parents country of origin could identify as Nigerian American, Ghana American, etc. In fact, Obama could actually identify himself as Kenyan American if he chose to. The best explanation of this I’ve come across so far is the AA page on wikipedia. They explain it far better than I could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American#The_term_.22African_American.22

The way I see it, why should we deny our African ancestry just because it makes mainstream America (aka white people) uncomfortable when we embrace it? From what I’ve seen and experienced, the people who usually have a problem with the term is white people. It’s never a problem for German, Italian, Japanese, or Mexican Americans to embrace their ancestors country of origin. But there’s a problem with the term African American? I also have no problem with the term “Black” and I use both interchangably.

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on Wed Dec 3rd 2008 at 08:57:04 Nikki

As for the biracial/mixed race issue, I don’t subscribe to the one drop theory, never have, never will. There’s no such thing as “black blood” IMO. All blood was red last time I checked. However, I did come across an interesting comment on youtube. The video was an episode of Tyra’s show with all “black” models celebrating the all black issue of Italian Vogue. The show included Chanel Iman and Noemie Lenoire among others who appear more mixed than black. One person (probably white) commented that most of the models on the stage weren’t even black, they were mixed. Another replied that all African Americans are mixed, it’s only a matter of to what degree. I admit I feel that comment has a ring of truth.

The only reason I identify Halle Berry and Obama as black is because that’s obviously the way they self identify and see themselves. I believe self identification is important. I personally don’t believe it’s societies job to determine what a person should label or identify them selves as. At the end of the day, THEY are the ones who have to live in this world in their skin. It’s their decision, not mine or anybody elses. The same way I support Mariah Carey and Tiger Woods for identifying as multracial or “Cablasian” respectively. That’s their own right. They are no more right or wrong than Halle and Obama. I’m a little confused on the Bill Clinton/Madonna thing. When the hell did either of them identify themselves as black? WTF?????? I remember the black community embracing Clinton as the “first black president” cause we believed he was the closest thing we’d ever have to a black president lol. I still can’t believe a black man was elected president in my lifetime. More than that, I’m shocked that we have a black first lady (honestly in the back of my mind, I always expected the first black president to be married to a white woman).

My thing is I don’t like that mixed race people always feel that black people “force” them to identify as black. I hear it a lot and it bothers me (I hear it a lot from white people as well). Therefore I refuse to identify a biracial/mixed race person as black unless they themselves self identify as such. This is all, ofcourse, just my opinion and I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, but I hope that yall can at least respect an opinion differing from all the others here. Peace

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on Tue Dec 9th 2008 at 02:33:29 Bahia

Abagond,you have a great blog! And I agree with you Nikki 100%!

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on Tue Dec 9th 2008 at 05:16:36 abagond

Thanks! I, myself, do not agree completely with Nikki.

Self-identification, for example, only works in certain cases. If I had the very same mix of races as Tiger Woods and called myself “Cablinasian” in the days before he made it famous, people would think I was a bit touched in the head. Unless, of course, I became a world-famous golfer. Then I could call myself whatever I liked (and try to act like the racist comments are no big deal).

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on Tue Dec 9th 2008 at 05:18:58 abagond

I wrote about the blackness of Madonna because when she first came on the radio people thought she was black and, as it turned out, she grew up in a black part of Pontiac, Michigan and says she feels black. So I thought that was interesting.

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on Tue Dec 9th 2008 at 05:21:04 abagond

josh: those are all beautiful women you listed, except maybe for Kelly Rowland, who is cute, not beautiful in my book. Some of them are already in other lists. I absolutely love Holly Robinson-Peete but keep forgetting to put her in. Thanks.

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on Wed Dec 17th 2008 at 13:18:23 Black Brazilian

Camila Pitanga, is white, I really hate Adriana Lima, she is a WHITE BITCH, it’s turn my stomach when this bitch keep saying she mix race she is a white racist cow. Ildi Silva This bitch is white, we have beautiful black, brown, yellow black women we don’t need whites saying there are nither. I accept light skin blacks because I am light skinned but these women use there so-called blackness to appear more Brazilians. There are many Real black women of many shades that can’t get modelling jobs. We don’t need a white fool telling lies that she mix or black when clearly she isn’t. I don’t care if you have white, indians blood you are NOW BLACK OR WHITE.

“Halle Berry is going to raise her daughter as a black child”

Halle Berry shouldn’t rise her child as black because her child isn’t black her child is WHITE. I am the same colour as Halle, but I am not mix-race. I don’t consider Halle mixrace but a black woman but she made her choice and her child is white.

The only reason, I have this colour is because a white slave owner raped my great great great grand mother and that nothing to shout out about we should be ashame that these vile men rape our great great great grand mothers. If we were born 150 year ago a white nasty ass man would have rape us with his friends. So take that in consideration when talking about ourseleves as being mix race people. We are African people that come in different shades because in slave we had no control over our bodies the white race would do open us what they wish like gang rape remember the KKK?

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on Mon Dec 29th 2008 at 19:53:24 Shareef

From your West African Black man from ghana.

All of you who are claiming that this person is black and this person in not black are wasting your time because at the end of the day we are all human.Infact if you are the lightes person or the darkest the racist still exist so move on and contribute for a better cause.If you feel that you are offended then post some darker sisters on the page or do your research and develope your own website. We have bigger problems in life than color to worry about like the death and see if you can get into heaven becuase of color. don’t let the devil deceive you into such anger that you become blind. summit some darker beautiful sisters you think should be posted from brazil and call it a day.

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on Wed Dec 31st 2008 at 08:08:20 abagond

Agreed: if you think these women are not dark enough, then tell me some that are! Most women in Brazil that Americans would call black are light-skinned, especially those who are famous enough to be in the Wikipedia (which this list is limited to).

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on Wed Dec 31st 2008 at 14:29:46 mynameismyname

Abagond,

In all respect, your comment above (#125) is some bullshit. Afro-Brazillians come in a variety of shades. The majority are not lightly complexioned. Where’d you get that from? LOL.

Also, from knowing some Afro-Brazillians, they determine race in a similar way that North Americans do. It’s just that they’re far MORE mixed. That complicates things.

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on Sun Jan 4th 2009 at 08:28:05 abagond

My understanding is that blacks in Colombia and Brazil are lighter, in general, than those in North America. It is mainly they mixed more with Europeans. I could be wrong, of course.

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on Thu Jan 15th 2009 at 04:32:39 c0cc0

I’m not going to bother with the politics of race… but I just want to say that I think Negra Li could have been on that list. She is GORGEOUS.
… Her, and a couple of hot samba dancers I see on youtube. =p

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on Thu Jan 15th 2009 at 05:15:55 abagond

I know about her! She was on this list in its early drafts. She is certainly in the top 20.

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on Thu Jan 15th 2009 at 09:03:33 chech

you should do a top ten African beauty…more specifically Nigerian!!

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on Fri Jan 16th 2009 at 06:13:32 abagond

I live in America and we hear so little about African women over here apart from the few who go to Europe and make it big as fashion models, like Alek and Iman.

But I did make a list of those who I think are the most beautiful Nigerian actresses – since Nollywood is something knowable even in the States:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/the-most-beautiful-nigerian-actresses/

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on Mon Feb 2nd 2009 at 02:35:05 JamaicanGuy

i find it funny when ppl say stuff like: ‘I am 20% black, 40% white, 20% Indian and 20% native american.’ i mean how does ppl calculate this stuff…………..and as far as the argument ‘being fully black goes’ i think most black ppl if not all black ppl in the WEST are mixed except for those indigenious Africans. how are we suppose to know what happened umpteenedth generations before?

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on Wed Feb 25th 2009 at 17:40:15 Ned

Those are some beautiful black women

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on Wed Feb 25th 2009 at 17:49:04 U.K GUY

Well down to the person who posted this.
Reading some of the comments on here just confirms to me how much stupid thinking out there is on race. It really does bring a tear to my eye when I read so many people use the term mixed race and 20 percent this and 5 percent that. I am white guy I am not white becasue I am part of a pure race I am white because I have a european apparance. When I hear the words mixed and race it makes me think hitler must be looking up from hell laughting when you call someone mixed race you are by default saying you belive in pure races and that is a Nazi myth

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on Thu Feb 26th 2009 at 11:13:27 lifeisannoying

lets hear it for the uk guy!!! (claps riotously) here is someone who speaks sense!! he could have jewish ancestry(maybe) he could have long ago black ancestry like many white people who live in port cities like liverpool, bristol and london, but they look white and too all intents and purpose are white thus…. there it is.

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on Wed Mar 4th 2009 at 14:06:01 narcy

Sad that all of them have straightened long hair or extensions…can’t we just for once see some real, natural African beauties…please!

I am sick of labeling mixed race women as black at the expense of our homegrown beauties. Sanaa Lathan is of mixed race. Not black. Nor is Naomi Campbell, Beyonce, Rhianna etc etc.! Bah!

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on Wed Mar 4th 2009 at 23:59:06 chechmonk

I completely agree with you narcy…but I think campbell is black.

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on Tue Mar 17th 2009 at 01:31:50 Faye

Black is Black.Most blacks who forefathers came from the slave trade here in America are mixed.The mixture would include white,Native indian and african.it’s the same as any where else.I should know Iam a black American.Born and raised.Most people mistake me for a black chinese! American woman looks are extremely diversed.We come in different shapes from bigg but and shoet to tall and slender light dark and everything in between.Because this country is full of immigrants you don’t know who is who so sometimes you figure they are hispanic.Anyway,Black people are extremely diversed my hair has two different textures,While my brother has hair like a arab.My sister has red hair while the other one has blonde.Do you get my drift?All of this Iam two thirds black and a quater european is crazy.None of us are pure blooded.And Mixing is nothing new it has been going on since Ancient Eygpt.Being Black isn’t abouty complextion.You Can tell either by Certain Characteristics,discrimination or whatever.People just started calling themselves Black in the 60’s.Before that we were colored,niggers, negroid,negro,burntface Ethiopeans by the Greeks.Moores,and the different names go on and on.So please get over it.Stop trying to split black up you are a whole person.I can’t put all my different bloodlines on an Aplication .there is nothing wrong with choosing a race or a nation.Your just identifying with a culture or a group that share social,psycological etc.characteristics.

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on Fri Mar 20th 2009 at 19:46:28 oleu

Many italians , portuguese , french, and spaniards are not really pure white , most of them have african ancestry .There is so much black people in those countries and other part of europe , but there is a history about the southern europeans and africans , because it is so close to africa , and that is why so many have olive skin.They look totaly differnt then the nordics , even a mixed nordic looks more whiter then a southern european, i wondered why no body notice that.Yes ,in america those brazilian women will be consider black , because of the one drop rule.I don’t understand why most southern europeans are not consider black because alot of them have black ancestry.Not even notht africans are consider black and many even the whites looking north african who is a descendant of the original black moors are consider white , i guess because the white racist people want the credit of the civilization of the black arabs , the white ones were immigrants in north africa and they too stole the history of the original blak arabs, it is pure jealousy.I am mixed too , black is beautiful , any way.

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on Sun Mar 22nd 2009 at 03:19:04 abagond

I agree: Mediterranean people do look markedly blacker than the people of northern Europe. It is more than just their skin colour too.

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on Sun Mar 22nd 2009 at 07:38:51 mynameismyname

Yeah, Italians, Portuguese, Spainards and the French often do have a phenotype thats clearly West African influenced.

It’s interesting, you have so many bozos on the internet trying to point out random black folks as “mixed” yet you have “whites” such as the Southern Europeans who have clear admixture and no one is claiming them as “mixed” or pointing out their “black”-ish appearance.

What’s that about?

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on Sat Apr 4th 2009 at 23:13:02 Sparkle

I have visited Salvador, Bahia, Brasil on many occasions and it is quite common to see siblings born of the same parents who range from dark with kinky hair to white with straighter hair. However, some white Brazilians will say that Adriana is not black or mulata but “morena clara” which means she is white with maybe some Native American ancestry.

Also it seems as if they deliberately lightened Ildi’s skin and lightened and straightened her hair so that she would appear less African or “black” on television. After all Brazil’s highest paid entertainer is the blonde Xuxa of European descent. When I first saw Ildi I thought she was Italian, Greek or Portuguese because the only pics I saw of her were the ones with the lightened skin and straightened hair. I didn’t know that she had African ancestry until I happened on this website and saw the untouched photos of her which makes her look totally different and more “black”.

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on Mon May 4th 2009 at 06:22:20 anayakay

Those women are beautiful. Thanks for making a post for these beautiful black Brazilian women. I’m an African-American woman who’s always been interested in the culture of my Brothers and Sisters in South and Central America. I especially love the music and the dance.

For other commenters discussing blackness, to understand how to really know who is black and who is not I suggest you guys read Blackroots Science. Just google it. It’s available for free online. This book breaks blackness down better than any other book I’ve ever read. Also it tells about how the other races were made (as black people were the original people of the Earth) and why slave descendants of the African Diaspora are Yahweh’s Chosen People. Look for it on scribd.com if you can’t find the author’s website to download it.

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on Thu May 7th 2009 at 15:32:25 Antton

Hi. I’m from Finland. Blond fellow and i really was impressed about these beautifull black brazilian ladies. My favorite of these models is Rojane Fradique. Dear me how beautifull she is. So wonderfull charming features, beautifull color of skin and other features.

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on Sun May 24th 2009 at 11:46:15 Teraaj

Hi everybody. Let me tell you about my affair with the most beautiful Brazilian woman I have ever met, her name was Tatiana Gomes and I met her in Canberra. I still remember that it was our second date where she took me to her house and we had sex. I can’t forget that day.. Tatiana, I love you for ever

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on Sun Jun 7th 2009 at 08:32:28 Benjamin

wooooooooooow i am just love them kissssssssssssssssss

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on Thu Jul 30th 2009 at 09:50:48 weezybabe

lemmi say i am nigerian and afrobrazilian … but i clame nigeria can everyone stop sayin africa cause they’re idigenous white in africa BERBERS who are african but white … black and white are races that europeans made up being darker does not make one more african … in africa we identify based on ethinicity not race

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on Sat Nov 7th 2009 at 16:22:33 Leslie

Honestly i feel insulted as a black women. These women do NOT represent black beauty.

I think they are GORGEOUS. Im not hating all im saying is they do NOT look like black women. They are not BLACK BEAUTY. and if a black man claims this to be black beauty then 90% of black women are screwed cause we do NOT look like this.

SO for the black man who made this list. DOES YOUR WIFE LOOK LIKE THIS???

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 06:34:12 abagond

Leslie:

Brazil is a racist nation, worse than America. Its entertainment and modelling industries favour white women and, in some cases, light-skinned women. There has been only one black Miss Brazil and she was light-skinned (what Brazilians regard as mixed, not black):

http://blackbeautyoftheday.blogspot.com/2009/01/deise-nunes.html

Rojane Fradique is an excellent example of what I am talking about: every single Brazilian modelling agency she applied to told her no. It was only through a foreign model agency, Elite, that she broke into modelling. As racist as the world fashion industry is, Brazil is even worse.

More on Rojane:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/rojane-fradique/

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 06:47:45 abagond

My wife is on the order of Valquíria Ribeiro.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 10:25:00 mynameismyname

^^
Recently, I was talking to a Brazilian woman about race. She emphasized that Brazil isn’t that racist. “It’s class that counts more, not color,” she said. I asked her if color influences class. She maintained that she finds the U.S. to be more racist than Brazil.

This woman referred to herself as a “pardo”, which means of mixed ethnicity in Brazil.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 11:39:40 nubiahbella

Myname,

One of my best friend is brasilian (a big community lives in Switzerland) and she thinks quiet the opposite of your friend.

As she said to me, your experience of racism depends of how you look (black,mixed, white etc…) and where you live (flavelas…).

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 11:52:47 nubiahbella

Lynette Says:

The beauty of Black women is that we are so physically diverse. I am happy that Abagond shows an array of Black beauty. I would be more insulted if he showed us as physically homogeneous.

I agree with you (in certain way) but I always find disturbing by the fact that some are seen like beautiful black women when they have more in common with white women than black women.

so I can understand (in some degree) the anger of some for this post.

sometimes I do wonder what is exactly black beauty for some?

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 17:58:18 mynameismyname

Nubiahbelle,

See your Brazilian is either most honest or more informed. What would her racial classification be in Brazil? This Brazilian woman I spoke to looked “mixed”, I guess, but more on the dark Portuguese side. Perhaps, that informs her view of national racism.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 18:32:57 abagond

I should also note that 88% of blacks in Brazil are light-skinned. Since Brazil does not have the One Drop Rule they are not even seen as black but as mixed.

Unlike America, white women did not come in huge numbers till the late 1800s. Most white Portuguese men probably thought they would go to Brazil, make their fortune and come back home to Portugal. But as we know it rarely turns out that way, so most of them wound up settling down there, many of them taking a black or native wife. Now 43% of the people in Brazil are mixed.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 19:00:47 mynameismyname

“I should also note that 88% of blacks in Brazil are light-skinned. Since Brazil does not have the One Drop Rule they are not even seen as black but as mixed.”

With all respect, Abagond, that above statement is grossly incorrect. Where did you get that figure? What constitutes “light skinned” to you, since as noted a million times on here, everyone has a different idea of what that is?

Um, most black Brazilians really don’t look too much different from any other black person from around the world.

Also, many “ambigious”-appearing Brazilians identify as black. And will let you know that they were treated as such in Brazil.

My knowledge of this doesn’t come from books or internet sites but actual experience.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 21:11:59 abagond

Mynameismyname:

I have never been to Brazil, so I will defer to your experience.

How I got my number of 88% is that of all people who are counted by the government as either negra (black) or pardo (mixed), 88% of those are pardo. I am assuming that most pardos are lighter skinned than most negras. Who counts as “light-skinned” is highly subjective, I know, but I took the pardo/negra line as a good place to draw it in this case.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 21:15:54 abagond

Adriana Lima has been on and off this list, so her blackness is a matter of debate. But by blood she is part black.

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 21:35:26 MzMee

Brazillian people are Biracial black people. They are even more diluted then the black american. They look more white then anything else. versus the average a full black american.

“sometimes I do wonder what is exactly black beauty for some?”

I believe black beauty consist of full lips, broad flat nose, large, almond shape eyes, and cheep bones.

I BELIEVE BLK PEOPLE ORIGINATE FROM AFRICA
, if you look at black slaves)american decent is from AFRICA!!!!! Look at AFRICA today and THAT IS WHERE BLACK BEAUTY ORIGINATED. THAT IS BLACK BEAUTY?????

This is a black blog about race, I question the so called “black man” who is writing this blog. If he is even black. Because this is the reflection of the average american black man, black women are truly screwed!!!!

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on Sun Nov 8th 2009 at 23:34:19 mynameismyname

Abagond,

OK, so now I realize where you got that flawed notion. You’re thinking that the racial classification in Brazil is similar (or identitical) to racial classification in the U.S.

“Mixed” in Latin America, in Brazil especially, is MUCH more broad. Remember, the likes of Will Smith, Oprah Winfrey, Morgan Freeman, Quincy Jones and Sanaa Lathan could be considered “pardo” in Brazil. Racial classification isn’t as strict as it is in the U.S. and Europe. Perhaps that has to do with the liberal attitude that the Portuguese (and Spainard) slave masters had that contributes to the heavily mixed society that comprises Brazil and other Latin countries.

The idea that Afro-Brazilians as a whole are “white looking” or “light skinned” is just pure ignorance. It’s quite the opposite, really.

Also remember that even if the likes of Will, Oprah, Q, etc. did consider themselves “pardo” in Brazil, they still would generally be seen as black and treated as such there.

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 06:25:22 nubiahbella

mynameismyname Says:

Nubiah
See your Brazilian is either most honest or more informed. What would her racial classification be in Brazil? This Brazilian woman I spoke to looked “mixed”, I guess, but more on the dark Portuguese side. Perhaps, that informs her view of national racism.

Myname,

My friend is a pardo as well but looks like the average black woman or like someone from Angola or Congo(when you know the story of black Brasilians, you can understand why!)

the black Brasilians looking ambiguous is a minority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 06:44:38 nubiahbella

I agree with your comment #162.

I also think some people included ABA (no offence), think and beleive the Brasil is like the (fake) postal card, they are selling to the Western World.

– full of light skinned or ambiguous looking.

thia statement is untrue (in term of phenotype of course), some do but most look either black or portuguese or white or indian.

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 06:59:12 nubiahbella

I believe black beauty consist of full
MzMee Says:

lips, broad flat nose, large, almond shape eyes, and cheep bones.

MzMee,

all of Blacks don’t fall into this description.

Lynette,

I hear ya but I just feel sometimes everything is called black.

Too many times when Whites don’t consider someone to be like them they put it in the Black box.

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 08:58:53 mynameismyname

Thank you, Nubiahbelle!

Most Afro Brazilians don’t look too different from most Afro Americans!

You’re right “ambigious”-looking Brazilians are a minority. Many Brazilians played on the tennis team at my college alma mata, for instance. They all were as European as a white Anglo. They were basically “ethnic whites”.

Black Brazilians are basically Angolans and Congolese. Just like Jamaicans are mostly Ghanaians. PRs/Dominicans/Cubans are mainly Nigerian (Yoruba). Haitians are mostly Beninese. Black Americans from the Carolinas can usually trace back to Sierra Leone.

American, Afro Latino, Afro Caribbean…whatever you wanna call it, please acknowledge this:

It all comes from the same place.

Same ship. Different trip. Western blacks are all directly connected. Language and different slavery tatics are the only thing that seperates.

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 18:27:56 laromana

mynameismyname,
What is your source of information regarding the African origins of Afro Brazilians, Jamaicans, PR’s, Dominicans, Cubans, Hatians, or Black Americans from the Carolinas?

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 20:03:38 nubiahbella

Myname says:

Black Brazilians are basically Angolans and Congolese. Just like Jamaicans are mostly Ghanaians. PRs/Dominicans/Cubans are mainly Nigerian (Yoruba). Haitians are mostly Beninese. Black Americans from the Carolinas can usually trace back to Sierra Leone.

I agree with that.Nice to see I am not the only one to know. LOL!!!!!

also Brasilian culture has been heavely (mostly!?) influenced by Angola and Congo.

ex:capoeira, from Angola etc…

The funny thing when I watch a movie with a black cast(non-African), I am always trying to guess where they come from, I mean with the phenotypes I can say which country or tribe they come from.

Myname says:

American, Afro Latino, Afro Caribbean…whatever you wanna call it, please acknowledge this:

It all comes from the same place.

Same ship. Different trip. Western blacks are all directly connected. Language and different slavery tatics are the only thing that seperates.

I could have written that, very well-said!!!!!

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 20:54:42 mynameismyname

“The funny thing when I watch a movie with a black cast(non-African), I am always trying to guess where they come from, I mean with the phenotypes I can say which country or tribe they come from.”

-I do that too! With black Americans, it can get interesting because many look like a variety of African ethnicities! LOL. Out of curiousity, Nubiah, where would you place black celebs like Rihanna, 50 Cent, Janet Jackson, Spike Lee and Zoe Saldana at first glance? I have an idea on some of those randomly picked names but I’m curious to see what someone else thinks.

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on Mon Nov 9th 2009 at 22:54:45 laromana

mynameismyname,
I don’t deny that Afro Brazilians, Jamaicans, PR’s, Dominicans, Cubans, Hatians, or Black Americans from the Carolinas have African origins.
I wanted to know what source (book, website, academic study, etc.), other than speculation, you were using to confirm the exact African countries of origin for each of these groups.

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on Tue Nov 10th 2009 at 04:38:59 mynameismyname

^^^
Good question, Laromana. It’s a multitude of sources. Way too many to list on a simple website such as yourself. I’m sure if you were to do your own research, you’d find out the same information.

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on Tue Nov 10th 2009 at 04:41:16 mynameismyname

^^^
Good question, Laromana. It’s from a multitude of sources. Way too many to list on a simple website such as this one. I’m sure if you were to do your own research, you’d find out the same information.

There is one website, raceandstuff, that dealt with all of that racial anthropology stuff. They can also back up the facts of the specific West and Central African origins of western blacks.

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on Tue Nov 10th 2009 at 07:10:51 nubiahbella

Myname says:

-I do that too! With black Americans, it can get interesting because many look like a variety of African ethnicities! LOL. Out of curiousity, Nubiah, where would you place black celebs like Rihanna, 50 Cent, Janet Jackson, Spike Lee and Zoe Saldana at first glance? I have an idea on some of those randomly picked names but I’m curious to see what someone else thinks.

Myname,

Having many friends coming from a different variety of countries in Africa (and also due a lot of travelling), all blacks (non African)I see on TV always remind me someone.

To put them in a country everything play from the phenotype to the body type.

Janet I think she’s from Ivory Coast

RIRI because of her features I would say Angola

Tyra from Rwanda

50 cent between Benin and Sierra Leone

Spike lee and Zoe Zaldan let me see a pic, I don’t remember their faces

But for that I recall I think she has 2 African countries in her.

And you what do u think?

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on Thu Nov 12th 2009 at 05:43:04 mynameismyname

Nubiah,

Hmmm…

I can buy the Jacksons being from the Ivory Coast.

I can defintely go with Tyra being from Rwanda.

Saldana seems more Nigerian to me, she’s from the DR so that may be a given.

Rihanna seems more West African to me but Angola could be a possibility.

Spike reminds me of a Congolese professor that I once had.

I always thought the Mowry twins, Tia and Tamara, could pass for Ethiopian. Aisha Tyler, the commedianne/actress, could easily be Somali. It’s funny though because their ancestors derive from West Africa.

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on Thu Nov 12th 2009 at 07:05:44 nubiahbella

Myname,

Agree wit the Mowry twins and Aisha.

Saldana I agree because of the way she’s (tall, thin etc) those are kinda common for someone from the Yoruba tribe but I do believe she has something else.

for RiRi, I still believe she’s from Angola, they have a tribe there, they are RiRi look alike in term of features and skin tone.

What do you think about those below? to me

Usher and Edddy Murphy seem from Cameroon.

and 50???

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on Tue Dec 15th 2009 at 23:01:52 Bea K.

Kudos to you Abagond, I understood exactly where you were coming from, and ‘us’ 57-62 shades of black women ‘get it’. Just sitting back shaking my head at alot of the comments posted here, and feeling extremely shameful at the fact that “centuries” later I guess not much really has changed when it comes to “the color black in general”. Have you noticed how people in general seem to get quite upset whenever the word ‘black’ (especially when it comes to us humans) is mentioned, almost as if it’s a ‘death sentence’ to them?
‘I’ truly believe that “every” (that’s right I said “every”) person on the face of this earth has ‘black’ in their backgrounds somewhere. Have NO proof of it, but I also believe that one of our “fore-parents” (Adam or Eve) was ‘black’. “Why admit it when it has such as terrible stigma attached to it”?
In the mean while Abagond, “thanks” very much for what you said, I agree with you, but really wish the ‘darker-skinned’ latina (and a few latino) sector on the t.v. novelas (Indhira Serrano, Muriel Fouilland, now Laboriel, Zonaly Ruiz, Brenda Hanst, etc.) could have been included here, as they’re beautiful but sadly ‘under-rated’ and less recognized when it comes to their ‘real talents’. Thank God ‘He’ doesn’t see us the same way we see ourselves, ‘color-wise’ that is.

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on Sat Dec 19th 2009 at 20:56:51 arnaldo

Get pics of Juliana Alves too.

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on Wed Dec 23rd 2009 at 11:50:28 afan

Brazil has the biggest black population outside of africa.
double the size of america.

and just because some of them are mixed doesnt mean there not black.

otherwise alicia keys and halle berry arent black either.

americans are ignorant. the other day this guy said people from the caribbean arent black. thinking that americans are the only blacks of african descent.

there are blacks in venezuela, colombia, belize, brazil, equador, the caribbean, canada etc.
all over that region.

not just america.

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on Wed Dec 23rd 2009 at 12:30:54 Aiyo

@ afan

Abagond did a post about Afro Latinos recently
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/afro-latinos/

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on Mon Jan 4th 2010 at 12:32:40 Thaddeus Blanchette

Well…

I think the main point is that most Brazilians eschew static and binary concepts of race. They’ll say that they are white in one circumstance, brown in another and even black in a third. This is quite common here.

Mostly, though, they’ll say they’re “mixed”.

“Mixed” is easily as serious an identity with people down here as “black”. So while, yeah, mixed Brazilians are also black, very few Brazilians will cast themselves as exclusively and always black. Even hardcore black brazilian militants slip up and call themselves and others “mixed” if they don’t watch their tongue.

“Black” and “white” in the U.S. preculde any other classification. Here in Brazil, they don’t.

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on Mon Jan 4th 2010 at 19:36:08 Pedlyde

abagond, these women are average. The only good looking ones are Ildi Silva and Adriana Lima…and they are hardly black.

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on Mon Jan 4th 2010 at 19:41:23 tulio

^^^ If these are what you call “average” women, I’d love to see your dating resume. You must put Derek Jeter to shame.

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on Mon Jan 4th 2010 at 19:50:20 abagond

Pedlyde:

If you think Adriana Bombom is “average” then you must be gay.

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on Fri Jan 8th 2010 at 22:13:09 Henry

Pedlyde @ you must be an ugly non-black chick or the gayest guy in the world.

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on Sat Feb 13th 2010 at 17:05:43 B. R.

Unfortunatly, I got to this thread late.

Id like to submit two woman from this video:

Elza Soares and Edi Machado

There are really good examples of the range of colors of black Brazilian women in the dancing scenes with the passistas.

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on Fri Mar 5th 2010 at 16:31:55 ColorofLuv

Lisa,

are you still around? Try not to let your anger get the better of you when posting.

I agree with you on many things, but keep in mind the definition of “black” as it is defined in the U.S. — The one drop rule.

Hey, I am white. At no time in Brazil did anyone ever consider me to be anything other than white. But you know what, a lot of Black Americans thought me “mixed” in my youth and early 20’s. Had I been in the South during segregation, I probably would have been considered Black.(Ever hear of Sandra Laing?)

This whole Black & White thing in the U.S. just sucks. I hate it. But you know what? Its a reality and I have to live with it. But I try to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.

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on Sat Apr 10th 2010 at 16:46:48 James

Hi, I was reading the comments on your opinion on black brazilians and non black brazilians. Well I, myself, went to college for 5 very long years and now I am a 9th grade global studies teacher. And right now we are talking about brazil. My students had the same opinion as you all did. The whole beliefe that there are black brazilians and that brazilians are not black. I think its silly, really. The real fact on this topic is that there are black people in brazil. Brazil is made up of a mixed race, the people who live there are European, African and Amerindian ancestry. If you don’t believe me look it up for yourself. Just like America, Brazil had slavery to. So yes there are black people in Brazil. Like African American, they are considered African Brazilian. Hope I helped.

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on Sat Apr 17th 2010 at 10:09:15 truthbetold

Interesting; One thing I liked and still like about Brazil was the defiance against ancestral segregation. But now its seems like deceivers have come into corrupt something good.

As much as these people want to promote independance from a segratory system the feed it through there own agendas. They say claim your African Heritage as a way to show that they are somebody or feel like they stand for the least desirable ancestry. Who says its least desirable. To me unless there is some personal feelings of insercurity about you skin tone then who cares!

Stop with this obsessive africaness; I reading kast talking about african features this or that thats so bogus. You think them people were born through the sweat and pain of only there african ancestors NO!

If one is going to start a movement against oppression started with truth. In this way you wont promote divison and insecurities in people.

Are you more proud of your Ggggg-grandfather or your father. Are you eating food that your Gggggg-grasnd ma made or your mother. Be real man! This is the same stupidity that was pulled on the oppressed by the oppressor.

SIMPLY PUT PROMOTING ONE NATIONS PEOPLE OVER ANOTHER.

I see a nigerian wrote not all nigerians are dark; come on man get real 8/10 is majority. But really who cares are you not happy with your skin dark or light.

GOD MADE YOU the way he saw fit; I’m 10000% against separatism especially when it comes to family line.

These women have african ancestry just like they have other ancestries; They are not only indigenous, only african, only european, they are a combination they are BRAZILIANS a symbol of what happens when people from different places come together.

It should forge harmony not division; And for the people to blind to ACCEPT reality look within yourself an see what you hate.

And if people read GOD’s word they would know that color is rarely spoken of actually a total of maybe three times; The reason; The GOD and Father of Jesus Christ doesn’t judge from outside appearances but from the heart. He doesn’t look at the things man does.

Stop the hate and idolatry whether the first man and woman was formed in Asia or Africa doesn’t matter because it was GOD who formed them;

We need to see the beauty in what GOD gave us to unify instead of divide.

SEEK TRUTH and hold on to it because the world is full of lies.

Peace to all; And one love to all my shades of beauty regardless of where you from.

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on Mon Apr 26th 2010 at 13:36:33 Zamawandla

I was born in South Africa both parents are black african (zulu and sotho tribes) even my grandparents both sides are black. My paternal uncle was white and believe you me my grandma didn’t cheat. During the apartheid regime he was refused to have an Identity documents because his name didn’t match his color. He changed his name and surname to a white man and he got his ID book. everyday he cried cos he was different he just wanted to be darker and be accepted.

For all my life I’ve been called names monkey, kaffir, barbarian, lot of names because my dark skin color. I didn’t choose to be black God made me to be black. I get lesser salary because of my skin color and my funny and surname according to them. God speak of great nation from all tribes, tongues and people(Rev 7:9-10) he doesn’t speak about color. I’m proud of my ethnic I have a huge afro I’m embracing my africanism I love my huge bottom. Since I’m from the South we’re not skinny so there’s no size zero here we embrace our voluptuousness. And were promoting blackness, we don’t use whitewash or skin lighteners we just love the way we’re.

According to South african constitution when you talk about black i.e Africans, mixed, Indians and Chinese. So if this list was made by a south african it would be similar to the above list with Indians and Chinese.

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on Sun May 2nd 2010 at 21:41:38 Joilson

Dude , why did you spent your time doing this list, this isnt a mister piece, it is bullshit, i bet you don`t even came to know Brasil…
As a brasilian citizen i have the obligtion to tell you to stop,
why don1t you talk about something interesting, about the culture or somethong alse…
Our women should be respect!

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on Wed Jun 9th 2010 at 16:55:38 Ebony

This whole conversation only proves that people are so afraid of BLACK!!! AFRICAN ORIGIN!!! Like the Dominicans who hate their hair and Haitians and call themselves 50 thousand other things BUT black! Mixed is Black Plus! So embrace it ALL and quit crying because while we are hating each other, there are so many whites who don’t like you no matter WHAT you call yourselves!

You don’t even have to LOOK black. If you have black ancestory… EMBRACE IT like you do WHAT EVER ELSE you claim to be and move on.
P.S. I think that Lisa and Lola are the same person! Lol!

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on Mon Jun 28th 2010 at 03:52:52 caribbean beauty

I came across this site by accident and unfortunately, too many of your contributors have an extremely narrow view of race. Coming from the Caribbean which in some instances lik Brazil has a long history of various ethnic groups coming together to form a wonderful melting pot. I have been raised as black, however, that is largely based upon the predominant race in my genes and my cultural experiences. My ethnic background is negro, chinese, caucasian, european spanish. I am the darkest of my siblings with the straightest hair Does that make me more or less black than them. In my family we range from the blackest black to the lightest brown and i am also married to a caucasian man who has 7 generations in a caribbean island. The reality is that the world is becoming increasingly mixed and the colour of one’s skin does not grade how authentic they are to their race. to the creator of this site, the pictures you depict demonstrates the wonderful range of the what is considered black in my view. I agree that the mainstream media still appears to be afraid to identify darker skinned people as beautiful which is wrong and must change, but the proportionate response is not to deny blacks of lighter complexion a stake in their heritage as blacks. Not only should we strive to exterminate racism but i think amongs the black community, colourism is equally as damaging Black is beautiful, no matter what shade of black you are

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on Mon Jun 28th 2010 at 12:44:16 Thaddeus

The comments above again illustrate the dangers of opining about a country whose history one doesn’t know much about – and unfortunately, that seems to include some Brazilians as well as Yanks.

Mixing in Brazil has indeed had aspects which might be considered “melting pot-ish” from an American perspective and it’s produced many good things. It has not, however, gotten rid of the categories “white”, “black” and “native”.

Out nativist, nationalist ideologues (such as Joilson, above), have been brainwashed from childhood on that Brazil has no race and has no racism: we are just a generic, golden, evenly blended people who would never, ever discriminate on the basis of color.

This is BS.

Racism is and always has been alive and well in Brazil, though in its day-to-day functioning, it seems to work more like what black americans call “colorism”.

Furthermore, mixing ideology has often been used in an extremely racist ane eugenicist fashion, with miscegenation held up as a way of “purging the nation of the vices of African blood”. You can read a more in-depth overview on this at my blog here: http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/whitening-theory-in-brazil.html

To put it bluntly, while American racists eschewed mixing in order to preserve “blood purity”, Brazilian racists encouraged it, following the social darwinistic and racist notion that, given that whites were supposedly more “evolved”, their blood would eventually win out in the miscegenation sweepstakes, eliminating all traces of the African from Brazil within 100 years.

This is an excellent example of why white supremacy is not a homogenous ideology which magically creates the same or similar experiences in all “people of color” the wide world over. In this case, white supremacy was read and utilized by white elites in two completely different ways, resulting in two completely different – but wholly racist – social systems. The U.S. system, wishing to “preserve white purity”, did all it could to prohibit miscegenation. The Brazilian system, wishing to “cleanse of the vices of African blood from our nation”, encouraged miscegenation.

Likewise, the types of racists you get are different. In the States, white racists generally are still horrified by the notion of race-mixing. In Brazil, racists of all colors applaud mixing as a way of “improving one’s blood”.

Two entirely different systems and emotionalities tied up with race, both based on the core notion of white supremacy.

Anglos would thus be advised to READ a lot about Brazil before attempting to force the country – and its racisms – into an American straight jacket.

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on Tue Jul 13th 2010 at 03:34:59 African Women

I absolutely agree with the inclusion of Camila. She’s off the charts smoking hot!

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on Tue Jul 20th 2010 at 19:44:28 FG

I notice much discussion above about the race of some of “the most beautiful black Brazilian women.” So are Adriana Lima and Ildi Silva black? Are they white? Personally, I view them as women of the Americas. Only countries of the Western Hemisphere, Brazil in particular, produce individuals who look like that in large numbers. Their “black blood” should not be overlooked, but nor should it crowd out aknowledgment of their other heritages. It is the fusion of European, African, and Amerindian ancestries that makes them what they are.

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on Tue Jul 20th 2010 at 21:30:27 Color O' Luv

If you’re going to go there, you can also include Sonia Braga and her niece Alice Braga.

Alice Braga has been in a lot of films, both Brazilian and American (much like her famous aunt). She was in “City of God” and most recently, the blockbuster new release “PREDATORS”.

Sonia Braga, depending on her films and style could be considered “Black” (by U.S. standards anyway – not Brazil.) but i don’t think Alice Braga ever would. (even though she has Raizes Africanas/African roots)

As I was mentioning in the other threads: It really is a matter of PERCEPTION. If you google both Sonia Braga and Alice Braga, and check out the pictures, you’ll see what I mean.

Alice:

Alice: http://www.joblo.com/images_arrownews/alicebraga1.jpg

Classic Sonia Braga:

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on Fri Jul 30th 2010 at 03:10:04 Bryan

These women are beautiful but to say that they are beautiful black women is a bit unfair.I would say most if not all are Hispanic Black not Black White. The fact that people are arguing whether they are black and white only proves that they consider their Hispanic ancestry unnecessary.We can all agree that race is of no importance in real life but if you’re writing definitions based on race at the very least be more accurate.

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on Fri Jul 30th 2010 at 03:42:31 Thaddeus

Er, Bryan, newsflash: we don’t speak Spanish in Brasil and our European colonists never came from the Roman province of Hispania: they came from Lusitânia.

So no Hispanic ancestry.

Presuming we’re trying to be accurate here.

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on Sat Aug 7th 2010 at 18:06:45 Bryan

I’m not calling them hispanic because of sparse Spanish colonization which there was.I’m calling them hispanic because before the Portuguese came and slaves were brought there,their were already natives there.Because there were different groups there,having to identify them by their individual names would be arduous which is why i use Hispanic here as an umbrella term. Although many died from European diseases a larger number survived and most likely assimilated into black society and vice versa.

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on Sun Aug 8th 2010 at 01:15:33 Thaddeus

Bad umbrella term. Hispanic properly refers to things and people from the province of hispania.

What you’re trying to say is that they look like their ancestors were both european and Indian.

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on Fri Sep 24th 2010 at 19:12:25 Jennifer

Lisa are you just dumb or stupid?, one drop of black blood makes you black or were you born under a rock! And what the hell are negroid features? Black women come in all colors, shapes and sizes and are some of the most beautiful women to roam the earth! face and body wise, this is why every other race strive to compete, lip injection, but injections and tanning booths to name a few!! I’m a white woman and I’m aware of that!!!! Jesus! Brazilian women are beautiful especially the one’s with golden skin and beautiful eyes!

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on Sun Oct 31st 2010 at 08:09:39 dee

calling Adriana Lima black is a stretch. if you can call her black then you could also call a lot of other white people black, who have a little african genes

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on Sun Oct 31st 2010 at 08:13:37 dee

Just because someone has some african genes doesn’t mean they’re black. most white people have a little percentage of African genes but are they considered black? no.

Adriana is of French, Portuguese, Native-American, Japanese and Caribbean origin.

SHE IS NOT BLACK

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on Wed Apr 20th 2011 at 14:17:51 kay

Some of these arguments are simply crazy!!! I am a Passista here in DC and the other Brazillian women I dance with are of all different shades. Some call themselves black and others say they are white. It really shouldn’t matter, they are all insanely beautiful. (oh and it’s nice to hear people swear I am from Brasil as well but im panamena)

All black is beautiful! Great post!

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 23:21:20 chocolate2470

Hello everyone!!!,…. I was web surfing about vacation locations, one of them being Brazil, and by chance, I came across this site and topic. I felt compelled to respond.

All of these women are truly beautiful, and I am not here to dispute that, however, I think that the problem is not because these women are beautiful, but because often what is considered beautiful, are women with predominately European features. There is beauty in all races, shapes and sizes. The reason why I feel some women of color become upset, angry, and sometimes disillusioned by articles such as this, is because often well meaning individuals will put up an article to pay homage to the beauty of a “specified” ethnic group, and somehow, the images although beautiful, are not an accurate representation of the specified group. It seems unfair that women of ethnicity seem to be considered beautiful when their features resemble their European counterparts.
For example, a light complexioned woman of color, can have full lips, a considerably “broad” nose, “mildly’ kinky hair, ( with or without light colored eyes), and be considered beautiful. A dark complexioned woman can have thin lips, a “keen nose”, and depending on whether her hair is “mildly” kinky, or she relaxes her hair, she would be considered “pretty for a dark skinned girl”. However, If the woman of color is dark complexioned, with full lips, a considerably “broad nose”, and kinky hair, She is not considered beautiful. Women of any specified ethnic group whether Black Brazilian, African American, Asian, Native American, Latino, Indian, etc, should not have to look very European, in order to be considered a beautiful representation of their ethnic group. As I woman of color, I do understand the reasons why so many woman fell a little “twinge” when articles such as these come about. However, I have learned not to take it personally. I didn’t set the beauty standards, society as a whole did. People of color may unconsciously and repeatedly perpetuate these standards, because this is what we were taught. However instead of us getting angry about it, (these beauty standards), we just have to acknowledge that and take pride in our beauty instead of trying to assimilate to fit a standard that is not a fair representation of women of diverse beauty and ethnicity.

Stay Strong and Stay Blessed.
Sincerely,
chocolate2470

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 06:18:26 The Cynic

@Abagond

LOL!!!

I think I would have simply played it safe and named this post
The most beautiful Brazilian women of African
descent

To me, the most beautiful women on this list are Tais Arujo and Adriana Lima

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 11:44:17 jorbia

However, If the woman of color is dark complexioned, with full lips, a considerably “broad nose”, and kinky hair, She is not considered beautiful.

This is one of the classic phenotypes of many black women and it’s this phenotype that is rejected the most by American black men. We can all see this, but I know we’re not supposed to notice this. This is why I’ve said that when the average American black man is in the position to pick and choose their black girlfriend or wife from among a variety of black women’s phenotypes, he very rarely picks the black woman with this particular phenotype. I’m talking about now, not back in the day.

Yet if an American black woman happens to connect these dots, she is accused of bashing American black men or of “hating and despising” black men.

What also is remarkable is that many of these same black men and those who think like them will then claim they are “conscious,” wax eloquently about all of their racial pride, and make a hobby of calling white men “racists.” That’s like the pot calling the kettle.

Another thing is that some of these black men will rave about a black woman who has one or maybe 2 of of those features and say she’s beautiful as if to make the case that they don’t reject the classic phenotype with all of those features.

I’m the type of American black woman who many American black men like because my phenotype is a distance from that classic phenotype. I reject American black men who’re attracted to me because of my distanced phenotype, who claim to me, “you’re still black.” This is disingenuous. It is obvious that they lack racial pride, and most of all is that to me, they’re the same as white or Japanese racist men who consider the classic phenotype, with the features you mentioned, to be unattractive or ugly.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 14:20:21 The Cynic

@Jorbia

How is finding a certain phenotype unattractive racist?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:01:00 jorbia

How is finding a certain phenotype unattractive racist?

Isn’t that being discussed on that other thread about the Japanese “scientist” declaring black women the ugliest?

I’m not talking about any other phenotype, aside from that particular ONE or the set of features that the commenter mentioned above. It’s racist, given the historical context, since that phenotype set can only be found in the one race that has been historically relegated to the bottom in certain ways. So, for black men who are in that devalued race to subscribe to that same subjective notion indicates that they lack racial pride and are the same as the racists of other groups in that way. Subscribing to it causes real life damage to many black women who have that feature set, that they cannot change.

Everyone can discern that the Kanagawa guy is not talking about bw of certain other closer to Euro phenotypes. He’s obviously not talking about Halle Berry types. Most black women don’t have close to Euro-phenotypes.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:40:59 The Cynic

@Jorbia

Actually it isn’t the same as Kanawaza. S.K. put forth a reason why black women were objectively unattractive, as if it was an empirically proven fact. We are talking about personal, subjective preferences here. That’s the difference.

Before we move on to the debate I would like to understand your views a little more by asking you some questions…

What is racial pride? Why do we need to have it? Is it racist for a white person to be proud of their race? Why or why not? Is it really necessary for every black person to live their life based on historical perspectives? Is it racist for a non-blk person to not be attracted to blacks? Do you believe race is social or biological?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:45:18 jorbia

People of color may unconsciously and repeatedly perpetuate these standards, because this is what we were taught.

I have to say that I think grown Black people sound pathetic when they lean on that what we were taught crutch. Black people are not helpless pawns who cannot change their thinking, as some Black people seem to think. Many American black men claim they’re as smart, competent, and capable as white men, so if they are, why do they jump on the racist bandwagon and do damage to women in their own race the same as other racist men. That sets the black race or group back because these women are not doing anything wrong or hindering the race with their behavior or anything of the such. Yet they get rejected by Black men simply on the basis of their Black phenotype.

I’ve looked in many of the pictures of women described to be “beautiful Black women” on this site and I have yet to see even one bw who matches the feature set of that phenotype that you described. All of these women of any race pictured are subjectively beautiful in their way, and so are the Black women who have the phenotype you described.

However instead of us getting angry about it, (these beauty standards), we just have to acknowledge that and take pride in our beauty instead of trying to assimilate

Yes, they have no choice.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 16:20:01 jorbia

Actually it isn’t the same as Kanawaza. S.K. put forth a reason why black women were objectively unattractive, as if it was an empirically proven fact. We are talking about personal, subjective preferences here. That’s the difference.

You cannot separate preferences from the damage they cause because these preferences are played out in real life. causing damage to others. If you are saying that you believe that you should be able to have your preferences, justify your preference, and spread the “rightness” of your preferences, no matter how much damage is caused to others in your group, then you’re an immoral person. You are also a liability to the whole group.

I’ve seen that not only do Black American men strongly reject BW of that phenotype, they also then try to prove that something is wrong with those women. Many American Black men obviously equate a woman with more Euro looks with being higher quality, nicer, purer, less “attitude”, and more likely to be suitable to marry, and so on, just like racist whites equate whites with having higher level or more noble attributes.

I read where some Black men on here have brought up that some women are more appealing to men when the women have clear skin, healthy looking hair, youthful, look more fertile, look healthier, but all of that goes out of the window when the Black woman has that classic phenotype. They still strongly reject her.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 16:52:42 The Cynic

@Jorbia

Well why do these Black men reject this “classical” phenotype? And how do these preference hurt people? What damage is caused if personality traits are not being attributed to this classical phenotype? Are you going to answer my questions on your views of racial pride?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 16:59:40 Menelik Charles

This might explain why some women are perceived as unattractive despite being physically beautiful:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071129145852.htm

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:00:03 Menelik Charles

Hmmmm

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:19:39 King

“This is one of the classic phenotypes of many black women and it’s this phenotype that is rejected the most by American black men. We can all see this, but I know we’re not supposed to notice this. This is why I’ve said that when the average American black man is in the position to pick and choose their black girlfriend or wife from among a variety of black women’s phenotypes, he very rarely picks the black woman with this particular phenotype.”

Hmmm… I’d have to say that personally, I see this more with the celebs than I do with the Black male friends that I grew up with. Quite a few of those truly prefer the Fantasia look

to the Nichole Ari Parker look

At least based on who they married.

Not saying that this was the case 100%, or that my experience trumps as The Truth—just my observation.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:22:19 The Cynic

@Jorbia
the women have clear skin, healthy looking hair, youthful, look more fertile, look healthier, but all of that goes out of the window when the Black woman has that classic phenotype. They still strongly reject her.

So would you say that at least 51% of Black men would reject these women?

Many American Black men obviously equate a woman with more Euro looks with… less “attitude”,
-Do you believe black American women, on average, have less, more, or a similar “attitude” than white & Asian American women?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:26:35 The Cynic

@Jorbia
So would you say that at least 51% of Black men would pass up the women in my last two links for this women, everything esle being equal(personality, income, etc)?

@King
Do you find Fantasia more physically attractive than Nicole Ari Parker?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:29:27 King

“Do you find Fantasia more physically attractive than Nicole Ari Parker?”

Yes. To be fair, I’d have to see them both in person, and there is an age difference working in Fantasia’s favor… but all things being equal, yes.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:30:40 King

@ Jorbia

Do you find Wesley Snipes to be more attractive than Boris Kodjoe?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:32:19 jas0nburns

“I have to say that I think grown Black people sound pathetic when they lean on that what we were taught crutch. ”

Agreed. However, there is some truth to it. It does stem from white raciem but at this point it’s only BP who can do anything about it. What you perceive here is a classic example of an intrinsic human drive to follow societal norms. In other words, once something becomes customary or normal culturally, it’s really really difficult to get people to stop doing it, or to start doing something else instead even if it’s a really stupid thing to be doing.

Every society or group has these cultural norms, and their always really sticky. Take smoking for example. We have known that smoking causes cancer since the early 60’s at least yet it isn’t until recently that people have really started to cut back, mostly through legal bans on smoking and smoking taxes. People just follow the norm and for a long time that meant being a smoker.

I think with black Americans, the psychological damage caused by racism has injected a lot of somewhat unique cultural norms into black communities that aren’t experienced the same way, or to the same extent by WP. A lot of those norms seem to be negative and self-sabotaging. And as blacks aren’t any better or worse than anyone else when it comes to changing cultural norms for their own good, this stuff sticks around for generations and has to be actively pushed out with strong determination and dedication over time.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:41:29 King

It does stem from white raciem but at this point it’s only BP who can do anything about it. What you perceive here is a classic example of an intrinsic human drive to follow societal norms. In other words, once something becomes customary or normal culturally, it’s really really difficult to get people to stop doing it, or to start doing something else instead even if it’s a really stupid thing to be doing.

Many people are raised to love certain foods. As they get older, and out into the world, they find that those foods are too salty and fatty. They may also be low in nutritional content, and unhealthy in other many ways. However, the intellectual knowledge of these deficiencies doesn’t make their traditional food taste any worse than it did before.

Knowing may change your opinions, but often, it doesn’t change your tastes.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:45:03 adit

These women are just wonderful….
they have many talent

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:46:00 jorbia

@ Cynic–

What is racial pride?

Check out Wikipedia.

Why do we need to have it?

You need it because of your own self-pride. You didn’t fall out of a tree. You came from a smaller group within the larger human group or a very large family of sorts.

An offshoot of group-pride is self-pride. More group pride gives you more self-pride. I’m in a discussion group on campus where there are students from many different ethnic groups and races. Many of them have their self-pride rooted in their group pride. Sometimes, it’s so interwoven until they don’t even know it until we start talking about it.

Some American Blacks of today are sadly lacking in group pride. That impacts their self-pride in a negative way. This is why when they get money or influence, they will quickly give it to other groups or share it with others while their own group members go lacking. They don’t care if the group dies because they don’t feel connected to it. They lack enough group pride to even find a reasonable way for their own group to benefit. I don’t think many American Blacks even feel they are a part of a group, unless whites are mistreating them.

I think that their group health or lack of it should be the #1 topic for American Blacks to discuss. Instead, most of them avoid that by constantly talking about Whites.

Is it racist for a white person to be proud of their race?

No. I expect for American White men to believe White women are beautiful. It’s normal for them not to reject the whitest white woman (whitest skin, sharpest nose, thinest lips, straightest. lightest hair) as American black men do the classic black women.

It abnormal for black men to put the classic Black woman’s phenotype at the bottom of their preference or appeal scale as so many American Black men do. Black women with that phenotype look the way they’re supposed to look. There’s nothing unappealing or wrong about them, as so many Black men try to prove, which is just like racist white men and now the Japanese “scientist” did.

Why or why not? Is it really necessary for every black person to live their life based on historical perspectives?

History has a long life. This is why many of you Black men here continue to complain about how the white system devalues or mistreats you. History lives today. It’s interesting that many Black men conveniently use history to explain certain things about Black men’s deficiencies, but in other cases, you want to conveniently forget it.

Is it racist for a non-blk person to not be attracted to blacks?

No. If we look at history, the groups of people we see today exist for a reason. Many people inside groups have been taught not to be attracted to people in other groups in order to conserve group resources for those within the family or group. That’s a basic survival mechanism. If those within a group who had the most resources had gone and spread their resources to others in all other groups, most likely no group would have survived.

Do you believe race is social or biological?

Almost entirely social.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:54:46 jorbia

@King–

Do you find Wesley Snipes to be more attractive than Boris Kodjoe?

Yes, but he’s a bit older. I also don’t think Shemar Moore is particularly appealing. These 2 men are simply Euro looking black men.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:12:06 The Cynic

@Jorbia

That’s interesting. I disagree with you on almost everything though. I guess I take a more liberal approach to life. You know, the live and let live approach. I believe that it can be beneficial for blacks to come together(bc of racism), however, I see it as more of an optional type thing. Also, I only believe it is only beneficial for us to come together for economic reasons. Everything else is unimportant.

I don’t believe you can tell someone that they MUST feel a certain way or have certain views JUST BC of their race, especially considering the fact that they didn’t choose their race. In fact, I believe that is a racist belief. It confines ppl to boxes(based on their looks) and takes away from their individuality.

I don’t feel that their is anything wrong with having racial pride, but again, it’s more of an optional thing for me. Some people really value their individuality, even up to the point where they take on rebellious lifestyles in order to counter conformity/group think.

When it comes to group affiliations, race is not the only group in the world. You can be proud of being Christian, being American, being a rocker, etc. Race is just one aspect in the world. Also, I don’t believe you have to have group pride in order to have self pride. In fact, I think that is a stupid idea.

As far as what people find attractive. I feel like everybody has a right to their preferences no matter what race they belong to. We live in a free society and we should be able to do, believe, feel whatever we want as long as we are not doing it to another’s physical detriment.

*Ppl who think/act a certain way bc of a group affiliation are the most likely to be ignorant. I call these ppl sheeple

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:13:01 jorbia

@ JasOnburns–

A lot of those norms seem to be negative and self-sabotaging. And as blacks aren’t any better or worse than anyone else when it comes to changing cultural norms for their own good, this stuff sticks around for generations and has to be actively pushed out with strong determination and dedication over time.

This sounds good and it certainly helps Black feel better that they’re just like everybody else. This is especially true when it comes to the need for them to shift something inside of them to change their ways. The cultural norms of American Blacks are very different than the cultural norms of just about any other group in the U.S. because the cultural norms of Blacks have caused them to seriously regress in critical ways.

Can you name one cultural norm of whites or Asians that has caused them to seriously regress?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:33:07 jorbia

@Cynic–

Also, I only believe it is only beneficial for us to come together for economic reasons. Everything else is unimportant.

It’s clear that you don’t think the way that men of groups who have strong group pride think. Maybe this is why so many other groups in the world are so far ahead of Black groups or Black American group.

If American Blacks don’t see the value in coming together for other group pride reasons, they will never come together for economic reasons.

I don’t believe you can tell someone that they MUST feel a certain way or have certain views JUST BC of their race, especially considering the fact that they didn’t choose their race. In fact, I believe that is a racist belief. It confines ppl to boxes(based on their looks) and takes away from their individuality.

I don’t know how old you are and I don’t mean any harm, but you sound very inexperienced or like a rebellious teenager whose mom and dad are paying the bills. I have my own strong views too about my individuality, but I also understand that people in a family or group must come together even when they don’t want to do it so that every one of them can do better.

No one person can ever just stand alone for long. You’ll be like one straw in a broom trying to stand alone; you’ll be easily broken by other groups whose individuals know how to put their personal wants aside most of the time to operate like the whole broom when it comes to group survival. Many of your peers in other groups don’t even do this consciously; they do it automatically.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:39:02 jas0nburns

“Can you name one cultural norm of whites or Asians that has caused them to seriously regress?”

I don’t know enough about any of the multitude of Asian cultures to comment on them, but For WP? Well racism for one! It’s hard for me to think of anything that is particular to White Americans and not black Americans. Maybe that’s because I’m white and can’t see our flaws clearly, or maybe it’s because white culture is the dominant culture. Or maybe it’s because I had too many beers last night 😉

Many of our negative cultural traits effect not only us but other American groups as well. things Like poor school performance or personal health or vast income inequalities or old-school sexism. It seems like blacks suffer from all the general American bad habits, plus extra sh*t on top of it. (I’m not really counting 1st or 2nd gen immigrants because they have different cultural norms than other Americans)

I would be interested if anyone else can name anything though. There’s got to be something uniquely white bad habit besides racism.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:43:38 jas0nburns

“Maybe this is why so many other groups in the world are so far ahead of Black groups or Black American group.”

Well, a lot of the wealth and power whites have accrued over time has come as a result of individual whites trying to do for themselves and their immediate families/people. Not for WP as a whole.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:46:21 jas0nburns

“This sounds good and it certainly helps Black feel better that they’re just like everybody else. This is especially true when it comes to the need for them to shift something inside of them to change their ways. ”

are you saying that in order for blacks to make changes they need to feel like they are just like everyone else?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:49:29 jas0nburns

@ jorbia

Also, are you black? it seems like you might be, but you keep referring to BP as they and them. I refer to WP as them sometimes but usually only when i’m talking about WP I don’t feel connected to as a result of time or distance or vast ideology differences.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:53:47 jorbia

@Cynic–

Do you believe black American women, on average, have less, more, or a similar “attitude” than white & Asian American women?

Yes, I think they have a very similar attitude if they’re from the same socio-economic background. This means they’ve had very similar life experiences. You guys usually compare ghetto or low income women who’ve had a rougher, unprotected or dangerous life where she’s had to navigate a lot of social factors mostly all alone to a typical white or Asian woman who comes from a more middle class protected background.

Some of you Black men here seem to want to give the impression that American Black women are just mean and nasty as if American Black women have loose screws and enjoy being mean and nasty for no good reason. You’re not telling here what exactly you’re saying and doing to these women.

I don’t mean any harm by this statement either, but if I were to meet some of you Black men offline and I knew who you were from here, it would not go well with me because you’re sending out some very negative vibes. You’re sending out vibes that you have a low opinion of Black women. I don’t believe that you can control that in person. There are some Black men and white men here who send out positive vibes about Black women. I genuinely believe they view Black women in a healthy way, so my response to them would be very different.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 18:57:54 The Cynic

@Jas0nburns
Many of our negative cultural traits effect not only us but other American groups as well. things Like poor school performance

I really hope you are not referring to the poor school performance of blacks bc I can tell you that white racism IS NOT responsible for the achievement gap one bit.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:02:49 jorbia

@jasOnburns–

“Can you name one cultural norm of whites or Asians that has caused them to seriously regress?”

I don’t know enough about any of the multitude of Asian cultures to comment on them, but For WP? Well racism for one

You’re kidding! Racism has not caused whites to regress; it’s caused them to make tremendous PROGRESS, but at the expense of blacks and certain other groups. If not for racism, whites would have simply blended into the masses of the billions on earth. Racism gave them a gigantic leap forward, and they’ve capitalized on it.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:04:28 jas0nburns

“I really hope you are not referring to the poor school performance of blacks bc I can tell you that white racism IS NOT responsible for the achievement gap one bit.”

I was saying that both American whites and blacks do poorly in school compared to other developed nations. So poor school performance effects whites but not just whites. I wasn’t referring to the achievement gap between blacks and whites.

But to say that white racism is not responsible one bit is false. At the very least we should be able to agree that the achievement gap has it’s ROOTS in white racism, whether or not we agree on the extent present day racism has an effect.

Either way we’ve been over it 1000 times on here so I’d rather not get into another achievement gap discussion if it’s all the same to you 😉

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:09:29 The Cynic

If American Blacks don’t see the value in coming together for other group pride reasons, they will never come together for economic reasons.
-Umm… no. I just listed racism as a reason. In fact, I don’t believe their is a any better reason why black folks should come together to support each other economically.

but I also understand that people in a family or group must come together even when they don’t want to do it so that every one of them can do better.
-Black people are way too numerous and diverse for someone to expect us all to think, sleep, eat, and sh*t the same. That is what I was saying. I already stated we should come together for economic reasons, so I don’t understand why you are acting as if I said something else…

you’ll be easily broken by other groups whose individuals know how to put their personal wants aside most of the time to operate like the whole broom when it comes to group survival.
-Once again, what does this have to do with black people thinking the same way just bc they are black? A black person having their individual preferences, like for white women for example, are not damaging the community. I’m pretty sure black people will survive a black dude’s preference for a damn near white/white chick…

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:11:26 jas0nburns

“Racism gave them a gigantic leap forward, and they’ve capitalized on it.”

ah. yes you have a point. I tend to focus on the damage it causes us. I don’t know if progress is the right word though. Definitely it has bestowed advantages and privileges but I think it has also caused us considerable damage as a group. It’s morally reprehensible for one thing. It causes us to lie to ourselves which is a bad thing. I think that America would more closely resemble Denmark or Sweden if racism wasn’t such a factor in everything here.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:13:43 The Cynic

@Jas0nburns

Yeah, but b4 I leave that topic alone I want to say one thing. It is possible that the achievement gaps has it’s roots in white racism, but we can never be sure. The point is that in this day and age white racism is not perpetuating it one bit.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:13:43 jas0nburns

“I think that America would more closely resemble Denmark or Sweden if racism wasn’t such a factor in everything here.”

and by that I mean a multi-racial Denmark or Sweden.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:16:07 jas0nburns

“It is possible that the achievement gaps has it’s roots in white racism”

Well, it’s either that or blacks are just genetically dumber. So take your pick because there is no 3rd option.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:24:00 The Cynic

@Jas0nburns

No, there are more options than that. Its possible that black people inherited an anti-intellectual culture that was developed in Africa.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:25:12 jas0nburns

“Its possible that black people inherited an anti-intellectual culture that was developed in Africa.”

GTFO

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:31:05 jorbia

@jasOnburns–

Well, a lot of the wealth and power whites have accrued over time has come as a result of individual whites trying to do for themselves and their immediate families/people. Not for WP as a whole.

Yes, but when whites get wealth and power, they don’t spread it among other groups. From the outset, they carefully kept it among themselves (by automatically marrying inside the white group for generations) whereas Black men tend to spread a large portion of their wealth instantly into other groups.

Look at the Black American man food billionaire who married an Asian woman. When he died, it went to her and their children, but naturally, her Asian ethnic group benefited a lot from his money. It would be interesting to see how much of his hundreds of millions found their way into American Black hands. This has been repeated many times and is the standard way many Black wealthy men operate. They spread their wealth and power into other groups as soon as possible and then complain they don’t have any power.

These days, some white very rich men do marry into other groups, but whites no longer need to worry about hanging onto white wealth and power position in the world. Whites already have a stronghold on wealth and power in the world.

are you saying that in order for blacks to make changes they need to feel like they are just like everyone else?

What I’m saying is that I think that telling American blacks that they have problems just like everybody else is what drives a lot of the complacency among Blacks because it makes it seem “normal” to them to have these problems.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:36:14 King

“Yeah, but b4 I leave that topic alone I want to say one thing. It is possible that the achievement gaps has it’s roots in white racism, but we can never be sure.

It’s pretty hard to argue otherwise given the history of outlawing literacy for Blacks and then impeding academic parity between segregated Black and White schools.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:37:15 jorbia

@jasOnburns–

@ jorbia

Also, are you black? it seems like you might be, but you keep referring to BP as they and them. I refer to WP as them sometimes but usually only when i’m talking about WP I don’t feel connected to as a result of time or distance or vast ideology differences.

My nationality is American Black, but I ditto the part about ideology differences which may be due to my having attended school and living in another country with my American Black parents during my formative years. I came back here to go to university.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:44:01 jas0nburns

“What I’m saying is that I think that telling American blacks that they have problems just like everybody else is what drives a lot of the complacency among Blacks because it makes it seem “normal” to them to have these problems.
”
Oh, so you were being sarcastic. well here’s the thing, black’s are human beings like everyone else. No more, no less. They have the same essential human qualities as anyone else. So if it’s extremely difficult for any group or society to overcome it’s detrimental social norms, how could we rationally expect blacks to be any different?

Furthermore, this should not lead to complacency. Quite the contrary. An understanding of human nature and the power of cultural norms should empower blacks by revealing the true nature of these internal issues. You can’t fight something if you don’t know what your up against. Part of the problem is that blacks have been made to feel that they are essentially different in some way. They really aren’t.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:48:33 jas0nburns

“Part of the problem is that blacks have been made to feel that they are essentially different in some way. They really aren’t.”

I should note that this is just an observation. I obviously don’t know if that’s true it just seems that way.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:53:48 jorbia

@Cynic–

A black person having their individual preferences, like for white women for example, are not damaging the community. I’m pretty sure black people will survive a black dude’s preference for a damn near white/white chick…

I thought we had agreed that Black men and women don’t OWN each other and could be with who they want. However, this means that when this happens, that Black person’s resources (financial, intellectual, and so on) will mostly go into that other group and circulate there and benefit that group mainly. For ex. if Oprah married a Norwegian guy and left him her fortune and extensive network of people who owe her favors, how much of any of that would end up benefiting American Blacks.

I think that if you and any other American Black man prefers to be with any kind of woman, you should just go and be with her. Stop trying to make us American Black women out to be these supposed mean and nasty women who are mean and nasty for no good reason.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 19:58:35 jorbia

@jasOnburns–

I should note that this is just an observation. I obviously don’t know if that’s true it just seems that way.

Yes, and it does sound quite patronizing. My first thought was “Well, thank you for telling me that Blacks are just like everyone else.”

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:06:19 jas0nburns

“Yes, and it does sound quite patronizing. My first thought was “Well, thank you for telling me that Blacks are just like everyone else.””

I realized that after I typed it. Sorry.

What I was trying to say is that people (everyone) seems to expect a special solution for blacks. Like American blacks are expected to perform a superhuman feat and somehow overcome this crazy hamstringing they took back in the day. No group of human beings could just snap their fingers and get over that. Why should blacks be expected to perform differently or better than whites have historically performed,
is what I should have said.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:08:53 King

“Yes, and it does sound quite patronizing.

I’d say that it would if so many people… including, most recently, Satoshi Kanazawa… didn’t clearly believe otherwise.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:13:14 jas0nburns

So I guess when you said that…

“What I’m saying is that I think that telling American blacks that they have problems just like everybody else is what drives a lot of the complacency among Blacks because it makes it seem “normal” to them to have these problems.”

my response was, well, they are just like everyone else. They are normal. So that got me down the patronizing bit. but maybe you were saying that because the problems blacks face are tougher in many ways, more effort is needed. is that correct?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:16:41 jas0nburns

“I’d say that it would if so many people… including, most recently, Satoshi Kanazawa… didn’t clearly believe otherwise.”

yeah, I mean I shouldn’t have said “made to feel” because I don’t know how black people actually feel about their humanity. I do know that many people have tried to make them feel less than human, and it does seem like a certain percentage have bought into that.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:24:40 The Cynic

@Jas0nburns
I mean it is possible. There really aren’t any great technological advancements that took place in West Africa around the time of the slave trade.

@King
I’m quite aware of AA history, however I am not going to make any assumptions just bc they make me feel good. Black ppl lag behind in countries that didn’t have segregation and anti-blk literacy laws, so their is still that cultural inheritance possibility. Either way, I honestly don’t care about WHERE this anti-intellectual culture came from, I just want to see it changed.

@Jorbia
You could have just kept it short and said, “Yes, I think American bw generally have more of an attitude than American whites and Asians.” No need for the socio-economic explanation. Its common knowledge their are more black folks who grew up in a lower SES. Either, way men don’t care about why a girl has an attitude, he just doesn’t want to deal with it. Whether he is black, white, or yellow.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:33:44 jas0nburns

You could say that their isn’t a history of intellectualism in Africa. As far as compared to Europe or Asia. That’s probably true.

But it wouldn’t matter either way. You can see it when 1st gen African’s come here and out perform everyone including whites and asians if i’m not mistaken.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:36:20 jas0nburns

But there is no significant anti-intellectual culture In West Africa that would have been passed down. that’s crazy talk.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 20:57:34 The Cynic

@Jas0nburns

I think we have all heard about the positive selection of immigrants. Either way, I don’t care. I’m imagining both possibilities and I still can’t see how that relates to IMPROVING anything.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 21:00:44 jorbia

@ jasONburns–

my response was, well, they are just like everyone else. They are normal. So that got me down the patronizing bit. but maybe you were saying that because the problems blacks face are tougher in many ways, more effort is needed. is that correct?

Yes, that’s correct and not necessarily “more” effort but the most effective or smartest TYPE of effort.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 22:06:59 jas0nburns

Also Jorbia, it seems like you’re overlooking the fact that these recources you’re talking about are extremely concentrated among a very, very, very small minority of whites. (among others of course) it’s not like we’ve distributed it around very much. Economically speaking, the vast majority of blacks and whites have more in common with one another than either of us do with rich elites. Of any race. By resenting each other we are just playing ourselves.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 22:16:23 jorbia

@Cynic–

Jorbia
You could have just kept it short and said, “Yes, I think American bw generally have more of an attitude than American whites and Asians.” No need for the socio-economic explanation. Its common knowledge their are more black folks who grew up in a lower SES. Either, way men don’t care about why a girl has an attitude, he just doesn’t want to deal with it. Whether he is black, white, or yellow.

Keep in mind that you asked me the question, so you’re now trying to tell me how to answer?

Here’s a simple suggestion regarding BW. Why not just leave BW alone completely. You obviously view BW in a negative way. Why continue to bother yourself.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 22:18:02 brothawolf

Beautiful women indeed.

I’m sorry, but when I see beautiful women, I get speechless and slightly stupid.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 22:50:40 King

“Either way, I honestly don’t care about WHERE this anti-intellectual culture came from, I just want to see it changed.

Fair enough. So, what are the steps that we should take? (I mean beyond recognition of the problem)

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 00:30:55 jas0nburns

So whats the prevalence of this anti intellectualism stuff anyway. I know that a pretty big chunk of the white population is AI, but does anyone know if the percentage of blacks who think getting good grades is lame has increased or decreased since civil rights? Stayed steady?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 02:01:00 The Cynic

@Jorbia
so you’re now trying to tell me how to answer?
-Naw. Not telling. I jus gave a suggestion

Why not just leave BW alone completely. You obviously view BW in a negative way. Why continue to bother yourself.
-What am I five years old? I’m smart enough to discern stereotypes from individuals. I don’t look at any black women any way bc of her race/gender. I look at character. I stay 1,000 ft away from women, of any race, that have attitudes or other negative personality traits.

if Oprah married a Norwegian guy and left him her fortune and extensive network of people who owe her favors, how much of any of that would end up benefiting American Blacks.
-This isn’t an example of Oprah doing something to the black communities detriment. This is an example of Oprah doing something to help another group. Oprah is an individual and she has the right to circulate her hard earned money in whichever networks she wants.

I think that if you and any other American Black man prefers to be with any kind of woman, you should just go and be with her
-Wow, so I see you’ve changed your mind. That’s great. You were starting to sound like an old white segregationist pre-Civil rights. So, does this mean you are going to stop demonizing guys that prefer Euro or non-black features?

Stop trying to make us American Black women out to be these supposed mean and nasty women who are mean and nasty for no good reason.
-Oh Jorbia, I’ve done no such a thing.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 02:43:55 The Cynic

@King
So, what are the steps that we should take?
I’ve moved this to the open thread. My reply is currently in moderation.

@Jas0nburns
Most black children do not see getting good grades as “lame.” Many of them simply don’t care about their education. They know it is important, but the just don’t care.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 02:45:13 King

“I’ve moved this to the open thread.”

Good idea. Thanks, I’ll look there.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 11:30:39 jorbia

@Cynic–

-What am I five years old? I’m smart enough to discern stereotypes from individuals. I don’t look at any black women any way bc of her race/gender. I look at character. I stay 1,000 ft away from women, of any race, that have attitudes or other negative personality traits.

If you “stay 1,000 feet away,” then how is it that you ever meet these women with these supposed “bad attitudes” that you CONTINUE to talk about. Or maybe you’ve been watching too many Youtube videos about how terrible American Black women are supposed to be.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 11:54:01 jorbia

@Cynic–

“I think that if you and any other American Black man prefers to be with any kind of woman, you should just go and be with her”

-Wow, so I see you’ve changed your mind. That’s great. You were starting to sound like an old white segregationist pre-Civil rights.

You misunderstood me all along. Post a comment where I said I was against American Black men being with any woman they want. You can’t read my mind.

My points have been directed at the selfish “little boy” attitude Black men have, that you have, when you talked about your individuality above. You AB men don’t know how to temper this with carrying out your responsibilities towards others in your group. It’s a common self-centered attitude I’ve noticed with American Black men. You want to be able to do what you want to do when you want to do it, any kind of way you want to do it, but you still want people to respect you.

The consequences of large numbers of the most capable American Black men dating, marrying and giving their assets of all kinds to other groups is that the American Black group will not have that wealth and power for themselves and Black men will not be viewed as “taking care of their own.” Then you Black men get angry and talk about how you “don’t control anything” and blame Whites for it. This is just one thing that American Black men do that works against you.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 12:04:48 jorbia

@Cynic–

So, does this mean you are going to stop demonizing guys that prefer Euro or non-black features?

This is another example of that “little boy” attitude. If any group of men in an oppressed group rejects approximately 25% of the women in their group because these women don’t have the feature set of Euro or White women, then lots of other people will consider you ill. But you don’t like to be labeled as ill, so you then blame it on whites by saying “white people taught us that black women with that feature set were ugly.” Or you blame it on those Black women with that feature set and claim something else is wrong with them.

Why does it matter to you so much what I think?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 12:15:00 jorbia

@Cynic–

“Stop trying to make us American Black women out to be these supposed mean and nasty women who are mean and nasty for no good reason.”

-Oh Jorbia, I’ve done no such a thing.

I’m happy that everyone here can read all you write in all of the threads. You’ve littered the comments in many threads with comments about the supposed “bad attitudes” of American Black women and now you’re denying it? If you’re saying that a lot of AB women are not interested in YOU as a man, then you should just say that and stop claiming that AB have some sort of deficiency.

What I think is despicable is that you’re trying to use the stereotype of the Black women with a “bad attitude” to get back at all of us because the ones of us you wanted were not being interested in YOU.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 13:03:54 The Cynic

@Jorbia

If you “stay 1,000 feet away,” then how is it that you ever meet these women with these supposed “bad attitudes” that you CONTINUE to talk about. Or maybe you’ve been watching too many Youtube videos about how terrible American Black women are supposed to be.
-I’ve spent almost my entire life going to predominantly black schools. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. Quit media blaming. My opinions are based on years of personal experience, not rarities or isolated incidents. I don’t even know why we are still arguing about this. 1)You agree with me and 2)I was speaking about ANYONE with an attitude, regardless of race.

You misunderstood me all along. Post a comment where I said I was against American Black men being with any woman they want. You can’t read my mind.
-Just check your 1st post on this thread or damn near every comment you make on here. All you do is talk about black guys not liking “classic” phenotypes. You say you wouldn’t date these dudes and that they have no racial pride, so you must believe something is wrong with them.

If any group of men in an oppressed group rejects approximately 25% of the women in their group because these women don’t have the feature set of Euro or White women
-Source?

so you then blame it on whites
-A link to my quote?

If you’ve been following my comment history on here you would know I believe the exact opposite. I mean, King & I had like two day long debate about whether racism or the white dominated media has had any affect on bw’s perceived attractiveness.

Or you blame it on those Black women with that feature set and claim something else is wrong with them.
-No, I was not speaking about that 25% group number you came up with. I have blamed a significant number of bw for their high marriage rates though. What would you rather me do, blame the media? Black men? Racism? Everybody else, but black women? What’s the difference???

Why does it matter to you so much what I think?
-I don’t get too worked up about you Jorbia. I am just here to expose the myths and lies you repeat daily. You make out all(or at least most) black men to be these selfish self-hating white women lusting Uncle Toms who are to blame for black women’s every woe. Ppl will co-sign you bc you get to play the race card(blacks are seen as victims) and the gender card(women are seen as victims). I am just here to make sure the ppl who come across your comments get an alternate perspective to your black woman-victim, black man-oppressor meme.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 13:13:24 The Cynic

My points have been directed at the selfish “little boy” attitude Black men have, that you have, when you talked about your individuality above. You AB men don’t know how to temper this with carrying out your responsibilities towards others in your group. It’s a common self-centered attitude I’ve noticed with American Black men. You want to be able to do what you want to do when you want to do it, any kind of way you want to do it, but you still want people to respect you.
-You have never brought up any such thing. Most of your comments are based on leaning on that “light skin good hair crutch” you love. Either that or IR relationships, which if you think about it, can be seen as the same argument as the former.

The consequences of large numbers of the most capable American Black men dating, marrying and giving their assets of all kinds to other groups is that the American Black group will not have that wealth and power for themselves and Black men will not be viewed as “taking care of their own.”
-Umm… Hispanics/Asian women have higher IR marriage rates than black men and Asian men have similar rates. It doesn’t seem to be hurting their socio-economic status one bit.

Then you Black men get angry and talk about how you “don’t control anything” and blame Whites for it. This is just one thing that American Black men do that works against you.
-Your’e really attempting to turn this into an economic issue of any importance aren’t you? You can’t possibly believe that the way to fix the black community is to make sure black men stay with bw? Lol such emotional, illogical thinking.

And know you see why I called you a hypocrite Jorbia. This is a comment being made from a woman, who has gone online multiple times to boast about dating white men(seriously who does that? IR dating is not some hobby. It’s just something you do)

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 17:28:27 The Cynic

That Camila Pitanga woman confuses the hell out of me. What race is she considered? I swear she could walk around the streets of Lisbon and no one would suspect she’s “black”

An old picture of her Mother:

Her father and brother:

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 17:38:24 The Cynic

So bizarre. I wonder what she thinks about her race and the way she looks…

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 21:31:06 jorbia

@Cynic–

And know you see why I called you a hypocrite Jorbia. This is a comment being made from a woman, who has gone online multiple times to boast about dating white men(seriously who does that? IR dating is not some hobby. It’s just something you do)

Boasting? That’s YOUR word. All I did was say I date white men. By your interpretation of my statements as “boasting,” you’re revealing that you regard dating white men as better.

ALL of the BW on my campus who date at all only date white men.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 21:55:49 jorbia

@Cynic–

I don’t get too worked up about you Jorbia. I am just here to expose the myths and lies you repeat daily. You make out all(or at least most) black men to be these selfish self-hating white women lusting Uncle Toms who are to blame for black women’s every woe.

Trying to act cool? Ha! It’s not working. It’s obvious to everyone reading that my words are hitting every last one of your nerves. Why are you so afraid of my words?

Those words you wrote above about Black men are YOUR descriptions of Black men. YOU wrote them, not me,

Ppl will co-sign you bc you get to play the race card(blacks are seen as victims) and the gender card(women are seen as victims).

Co-sign? You act like other people don’t have brains. People don’t need me to tell them what they can already see, read, or what they’ve already experienced. So you’ve stepped up to convince them they’re just imagining things? You’re now doing their thinking for them? If people do agree with me, it’s because my words bear out the reality of what they have already perceived or experienced.

I am just here to make sure the ppl who come across your comments get an alternate perspective to your black woman-victim, black man-oppressor meme.

You flatter me. People know what they’ve seen, read, and experienced. Your denials of what I say will not erase their memory or change reality.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 22:06:17 The Cynic

@Jorbia
“ALL of the BW on my campus who date at all only date white men.”
-Wait, so why are you constantly talking about ALL of the black men on your campus dating non-black chicks as if that is if they are doing something wrong?

“Boasting? That’s YOUR word”
-When you mention it a million times as if it is something special, then yea, it comes off as boasting.

Trying to act cool? Ha! It’s not working.
-I don’t see much worth responding to in the comment that starts of with those words. Your responses seem to be getting a tad bit lazy Jorbia..

-Why didn’t you respond to these comments?
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/the-most-beautiful-black-brazilian-women/#comment-88224

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/the-most-beautiful-black-brazilian-women/#comment-88225

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 22:39:00 jorbia

@Cynic–

-Wait, so why are you constantly talking about ALL of the black men on your campus dating non-black chicks as if that is if they are doing something wrong?

As if? Those 2 words signal that you’re applying your own interpretation since you can’t read my mind. I make statements, but when you interpret them, you reveal your mind. Black men AND Black women on my campus who date anyone date people of other races. Now, let’s see what warped way you will interpret that.

When you mention it a million times as if it is something special, then yea, it comes off as boasting.

I have not mentioned anything a million times. That’s all in YOUR mind. Most people here don’t care who I date, but YOU do, for some reason. You read my words and become afraid and feel you must do what you can to prevent people from agreeing with me. You said you do that. So afraid of my words? Next, you’ll start counting how many times I say whatever I say. You’re starting to seem like a weirdo.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 23:08:20 jorbia

Cynic, before I mention Kirstie Alley dating Black men, let me say that YOU asked me this BM-WW question because later you will say that I’m the one with the problem of Black men dating Kirstie. So, let the record show that YOU asked me about this.

You’re asking whether most Black men would prefer to date Kirstie Alley or one of those dark-skinned Nigerian supermodels: Genevieve or Oluchi.

Let me mention that one of the 4 features mentioned in the phenotype by that poster was kinky hair. Neither of these 2 black models has that type of hair in these pictures, so you’ve changed one of the key features. So, we’re no longer talking about what I asserted because I used all 4 features for my assertions.

But if you’re asking me whether I think that most Black men would prefer to date a young dark-skinned BW who looks like a supermodel rather than Kirstie Alley, I would say yes. My question would be why does a dark-skinned Black woman with the other 3 features in that phenotype have to look like a supermodel to be preferred over Kirstie Alley by most American Black men?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 23:21:21 The Cynic

@Jorbia
kinky hair

I’m getting ready to go somewhere… prolly want be able to give a sufficient response til tomorrow….

Thing is. THEY HAVE NATURALLY KINKY HAIR. Just like most American bw

and guess what else…

They hair is permed just like about 90%+ of black American women. They are no different than most black girls in the states when it comes to hair, so their is no point in bringing it up. They are 100% African. Don’t come with me about any Native Americans in their family. They are more than likely non-mixed(just look at their facial features/skin color).

Again, no difference. Black girls perm their own damn hair. How can you talk about BM being pathetic for allegedly caving to European beauty standards when so many bw do the same? Are they not equally pathetic?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 23:45:56 chic noir

the cynic

You can make the argument that blk women “perm” their hair to attract blk men.

btw, few than 90% of blk women relax their hair.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 01:42:20 jorbia

@Cynic–

They hair is permed just like about 90%+ of black American women.

Where’s your proof of this percentage? You accused me of not presenting proof, and called me names, so where’s your proof?

As usual, a lot of money, time, and professional makeup artistry were spent to get these supermodels to look like supermodels. Yet, you put up those 2 supermodels as the types of dark-skinned women that other dark skinned BW have to aim to look like in order to outcompete a Kirstie Alley looking White woman for the attentions of a Black man. YOU have proven my point, exactly.

Here’s the trap in this for a darkskinned BW with those features. If she spends a lot of money to try to look like these 2 supermodels, many Black men then criticize her for being materialistic or for spending a lot of money on makeup, permed hair, and clothes. Some dark skinned Black women with that feature set actually want to attract Black men. So, don’t blame those Black women if they spend a bunch of money to try to look like the kind of woman who can outcompete a Kirstie Alley looking White woman for a Black man.

You have presented anyone reading this the proof of how the deck is stacked against dark-skinned Black women with those 4 features when it comes to Black men. Many Black men think the exact same way you do and plenty of people know this, including Black women. So, of course, many of those Black women are going to perm their hair.

Black women are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Catch 22.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 04:57:11 The Cynic

@Jorbia
Okay you said a lot of really dumb make belief stuff from Jorbialand in those comments, so let me just ask some questions…

1)If that estimate doesn’t work for you than let’s just say the overwhelming majority of bw straighten their hair.
2)Why wouldn’t a guy want a chick that looked like a super model?
3)Since when have black men singled out dark skin women for being materilistic? Like did you make that up off the top of your head?
4)Why shouldnt dark skin women with the “classic” phenotype aspire to look like Oluchi or Gen? Don’t you think that is a better look for those women to look towards as opposed to Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, or some other white woman on tv?
5)Are you not apart of the camp that would like to see more women like Oluchi & Gen in the mainstream media?
6)Do you believe black women who straighten their hair are just as pathetic as the blk men who reject kinky hair texture?
7)Do you not believe that Oluchi & Gen looking women should be the beauty standard in the black community? Do they look too European to you?

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 13:24:51 jorbia

@Cynic–

Okay you said a lot of really dumb make belief stuff from Jorbialand in those comments, so let me just ask some questions…

But here you are still talking at ME about stuff which you call “dumb make belief” so how DUMB are you? For some reason, you can’t stop talking at me. Can you? Is this an interview?

Stop trying to defend the stupidity of so many Black men’s thinking and choices. It’s really indefensible. I will answer your questions below, but you’ve become a stalker now who claims he’s not interested, but keeps pursuing. Be a man and control yourself!

1)If that estimate doesn’t work for you than let’s just say the overwhelming majority of bw straighten their hair.

YOU’re the one who brought up the percentage. Proof, please!

2)Why wouldn’t a guy want a chick that looked like a super model?

Want? We’re back to what YOU want? You’re just like a little boy having a tantrum because he can’t get what he wants. Most people might want to be millionaires too. They don’t throw tantrums or become angry and bitter like you when they can’t get the million.

Oluchi and Genevieve and mostly all “beautiful” women you see in the media are virtually all fabrications. Most women can be made to look “beautiful” given the money, time, and makeup artists and Photoshop to do it for them. Most guys aren’t angry and bitter like you when they can’t get a fabricated “beautiful” woman.

3)Since when have black men singled out dark skin women for being materilistic? Like did you make that up off the top of your head?

You have poor reading comprehension. I NEVER said dark-skinned women were the ONLY ones singled out for that label. I said IF a dark-skinned woman spends a pile of time, energy, and money on her makeup, permed hair, clothes, she would be labeled materialistic by many American Black men.

4)Why shouldnt dark skin women with the “classic” phenotype aspire to look like Oluchi or Gen? Don’t you think that is a better look for those women to look towards as opposed to Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, or some other white woman on tv?

I don’t think that ANY kind of woman should aspire to look like media fabrications.

5)Are you not apart of the camp that would like to see more women like Oluchi & Gen in the mainstream media?

I would like to see many more Black women of all types in the media.

6)Do you believe black women who straighten their hair are just as pathetic as the blk men who reject kinky hair texture?

Many women want to appeal to the men in their group. Many Black women are still trying to appeal to Black men and what’s pathetic is that many of these Black men desire those Black women the most when they look as much as possible like their oppressors’ women. Who is the real oppressor here?

7)Do you not believe that Oluchi & Gen looking women should be the beauty standard in the black community? Do they look too European to you?

I think that all women need to strive to look like THEMSELVES or maybe use the minimal of artifice and to stop trying to look like fabricated people, no matter which man might reject them for it. Any man who rejects a woman for simply looking like herself is not worth anything.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 14:02:42 The Cynic

@Jorbia
Stop trying to defend the stupidity of so many Black men’s thinking and choices.
-Really? And you say you don’t hate black men?

“I will answer your questions below, but you’ve become a stalker now who claims he’s not interested, but keeps pursuing. Be a man and control yourself!”
-I’m not a stalker, I’m just trying to show you some of the hypocrisy and hatred in your statements. Above you said something about black men just leaving black women alone and stop making them out to all be mean & evil people for no reason. Don’t you see that you have been making black guys out to be this very caricature?

“YOU’re the one who brought up the percentage. Proof, please!”
-For some reason the government doesn’t care about the percentage of bw who straighten their hair. All I can say is that when I walk out the house the overwhelming majority of the bw are not natural. You agree with that statement don’t you? Does that not represent your reality?

“Want? We’re back to what YOU want?”
-I didn’t say anything about myself. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I don’t get all of this angry and bitter stuff you speak of, in regards to me…

“I said IF a dark-skinned woman spends a pile of time, energy, and money on her makeup, permed hair, clothes, she would be labeled materialistic by many American Black men.”
-Really? I’ve never seen this. Is this a phenomena you have witnessed many times in your life? Are there many dark skin women who avoid doing those things to avoid the stigma?

“I don’t think that ANY kind of woman should aspire to look like media fabrications.”
-I agree. This is one of the reasons why I don’t get why some black women feel they need media representation in order to build their self-esteem. Many white girls have self-esteem issue and the media is filled w/ women who have similar features as them.

“I would like to see many more Black women of all types in the media.”
-Why?

“Many women want to appeal to the men in their group. Many Black women are still trying to appeal to Black men and what’s pathetic is that many of these Black men desire those Black women the most when they look as much as possible like their oppressors’ women. Who is the real oppressor here?”
-This is why I believe you are a hypocrite who has a racist-laced sexist attitude towards black men.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 14:14:35 Shady_Grady

It is rather blatantly hypocritical for one person (regardless of their gender) to date the “oppressor” while getting bent all out of shape if their same race, opposite gender counterpart dares to do the same. But that’s just human nature.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 14:44:19 The Cynic

@Jorbia

Oh, and when I brought up those Naija chicks vs Kirstie Alley, I wasn’t saying that “classic phenotype” bw have to be all done up w/ super model “media fabricated” looks in order to one up a fat white chick. Here is the point I was trying to make…

You have said many bm have no problem dating fat ww, however, you have also said bm do have a problem dating the “classic bw phenotype.” According to this logic, Oluchi looking women should be more at a disadvantage in dating than Kirstie Alley looking chicks. For some reason, even you don’t believe most black guys would choose Kirstie over the “classic phenotype”…

I’m not saying there aren’t blk guys out here that prefer more Euro looks, all I’m saying is that it doesn’t matter as much as you make it seem. If it did, Kirstie would trump Genevieve & Oluchi. I don’t believe those classical features are why bw have low marriage rates or the IR marriage gap btwn bm & bw is so vast. There are other factors, but you don’t want to pay attn them.

You say dark skin chicks have to look like “media fabrications” to be noticed by bm. This girl is a model, but I have seen every day girls who are similarly done up(not talking about clothing, or lack thereof).

I just have a really hard time believing 51%+ bm would not date/marry her bc of her features.

*Kirstie Alley is an actress just like Genevieve. I’m pretty sure she has the same, if not more, access to make-up & a comb. Here is a more “done up” pic of her.
http://tinyurl.com/3r5l3rx

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 15:25:54 jorbia

@Shady Grady–

It is rather blatantly hypocritical for one person (regardless of their gender) to date the “oppressor” while getting bent all out of shape if their same race, opposite gender counterpart dares to do the same. But that’s just human nature.

That’s why I always put the word “oppressor” in quotes or italicize it because I don’t think of White people as the oppressor. It’s clear that no one is oppressing Black Americans aside from themselves now.

American Black men are the only people I hear referring to White people as the “oppressors.”

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 15:34:00 jorbia

@Cynic–

Kirstie Alley is about 60 years old. She’s twice as old as those Nigerian models. That 2nd picture of her that you posted looks like one of her when she was much younger. Those Nigerian models ARE younger. I wondered why you would have BW who were young enough to be her daughters or even granddaughters in some cases these days in this virtual dating competition with her for Black men.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 15:37:34 jorbia

I repeat what I said before. Black men need to go and get whichever woman they want and be happy.

Black men and Black women do not OWN each other, and that’s good for all to keep in mind. I obviously don’t believe that we ever did and that’s why I date who I do.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 16:00:08 jorbia

@Cynic–

This Sports Illustrated model in that Youtube video clearly does NOT have 3 of the 4 features that the commenter mentioned and her lookalikes in everyday life therefore wouldn’t either.

You can split hairs all you want. The commenter way up above who I originally responded to SAID that if a BW only had one or two of the features, she would be okay. She concentrated on ALL 4 features and my statements were based on the phenotype of all 4 features. I would say that roughly 25% of American Black women either do have those 4 features or aren’t far from having them. You keep finding women who don’t have those 4 features and then claim that most Black men would want them. That’s a straw man.

We can have 5000 comments here about that one phenotype and nothing will change. People know what they’ve seen.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 16:17:26 The Cynic

@Jorbia

I had no idea Kirstie Alley was that old. Either way I am not talking about those examples specifically. Age doesn’t matter. Its all about the looks they represent. I maintain the point I was attempting to convey. If you can’t image the Kirstie Alley type 30-40 yrs younger then here, use Nikki Blonsky: http://tinyurl.com/3k4ho4e

This Sports Illustrated model in that Youtube video clearly does NOT have 3 of the 4 features that the commenter mentioned and her lookalikes in everyday life therefore wouldn’t either.

WTF??? Do you know what a black women looks like?
However, If the woman of color is dark complexioned, with full lips, a considerably “broad nose”, and kinky hair, She is not considered beautiful. http://tinyurl.com/4x77w4w

I see a VERY dark complexion, I see a broad nose, I see full lips, I see straightened hair that is naturally kinky(like MOST US bw).

Lol this girl is what you call European/non-black looking? Lol okay Jorbia. No wonder you hold so many strange beliefs. Only someone you consumes hard drugs would relate to the delusion you live in. Lol Good day. That last comment of yours just made every point I was trying to make.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 16:52:52 jorbia

@Cynic–

I see a VERY dark complexion, I see a broad nose, I see full lips, I see straightened hair that is naturally kinky(like MOST US bw).

The original commenter didn’t mention straightened hair. You keep sticking straight haired women up.

Also, I hope the original commenter puts up a pic of the type of woman she’s talking about. I highly doubt she’ll look like a Sports Illustrated model or any lookalike. It’s ridiculous for you to claim that the commenter was talking about the looks of an S.I. model when she listed the 4 features of that phenotype. So, this is a straw man and you know it.

Lol this girl is what you call European/non-black looking?

Nope, I never said that.

Lol okay Jorbia. No wonder you hold so many strange beliefs. Only someone you consumes hard drugs would relate to the delusion you live in. Lol Good day. That last comment of yours just made every point I was trying to make.

You’ve proven my points as I said earlier. If it makes you feel better, continue the 3rd-grade tactic of name calling, but it doesn’t change reality. Name-calling is the last defense of someone who has lost the debate.

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 01:54:06 Latesha

Hello Again!!! 🙂 I decided to post a picture up of a Beautiful African American Woman with very distinctive ethnic features. I am sure that there are “several” Beautiful Black Brazilian women with these distinctive ethnic features as well. Sadly there is a disproportionate representation of women of color that have these features, on the cover of widely popular magazines, music videos, beauty pageants, etc. However, like I stated in the post earlier, “I didn’t set these beauty standards”. Take Care and Stay Blessed.

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 02:04:39 Latesha

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 02:05:13 Latesha

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 02:26:39 chocolate2470

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 02:33:25 chocolate2470

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on Sat Jun 11th 2011 at 02:42:11 chocolate2470

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on Sun Jun 12th 2011 at 17:46:06 mrs. lee

you guys are still debating?!? oh my… check out lillian duarte carnaval queen. she is considered one of the most beautiful women in brasil!

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on Fri Jun 17th 2011 at 20:48:34 I wish you knew

Carmelita Mendes and Ana Bela Santos

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on Fri Jun 17th 2011 at 21:03:42 I wish you knew

It’s like so many of you just looked at the image and then just presumed they were other than black when to me a lot of them look black. Like some of you believe authentic black is dark skin with short hair whatever, that’s like me saying authentic white is pale gingers.

Black women come in different shades the same way white Italians look different from Swedish blondes I mean come on. I am Nigerian and people have thought I was all sorts. And like many American women who have a sleek look I’m sure If I adopted the same sleek look Brazilians have, and went there people would think I was Brazilian because people have a notion of what skin tone people should be If they are African or Brazilian etc. When really it’s the fact people have taken on new trends, hairstyles, attitudes, personalities, dress sense etc which makes you feel they are other than African or black, when in fact they are not.

Like Tyra Banks is full black but everyone thinks she is mixed, when her brother is dark like Nick Cannon. If black people can produce Albinos then I’m sure they can also produce children with varying shades of brown, from dark to light. Like think duh!

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on Mon Jul 11th 2011 at 21:35:53 ana

Adriana lima her grandmother is black so she is mixed not white.

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on Mon Jul 11th 2011 at 21:37:00 ana

Tyra banks bleached her skin and had a nose job that is why every one thinks she is mixed.

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on Mon Dec 26th 2011 at 19:49:55 tracy

I am a dark skinned black carribean girl and I see absolutely no problem with the women Abagond listed as “black”. The black women complaining may be internet racists or white women or white men in disguise.

Those pictures are exactly what black women look like and black in the carribean, brazil, africa and America. I think people are mad to see beautiful black women. It makes them mad because black women are supposed to be ugly. Black women really have the best festures and bodies, even thick hair, etc. So non black people always try to make them “uglier”

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on Thu Aug 2nd 2012 at 17:42:23 Rubin Sarmell

YES! That’s why I’m here, in Brazil…..

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 02:16:40 Vanda Passos

I think the mix up here is that officially there is only two races in America White and Black. In Brazil there’s more than two and there are also people who are not either black white or mestizos who were officially classified as morenos on their birth certificates, those did not have any African trace in their features their nose were like white their hair, lips, eyes and anything that would identify as being Afro was not noted, just like in some of the french people and people in many parts of Europe who is not inhabited by only blue/green/eyed white skinned people, The skin on these people was a light tanned tone, in Portuguese called Moreno. You see people of mixed race in Brazil classified as Mestiços, Pardos, Mulatos and more.
Even the broad nose and full lips can not be claimed as only an Afro feature since the Asians, and Indian (natives) also have it.
What really leave only one single sureness of Afro descend-ency,
The Hair! The reason why you see so many white skinned people with (crinkle) coarse hair is that they have the famous drop in their blood,

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 02:21:20 Vanda Passos

Why was the beautiful Brazilian model Zora of the years 70’s not on your list of beautiful models or black Brazilian women?
She was truly a exemplar of black beautiful Brazilian women.

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 15:33:13 Mrs. Lee

There are on three races and the rest are ethnicities. There is black rack, white and asian (indians are in the asian race.) Brasilians are a beautiful mixture of all these races and to me it is their culture that makes them beautiful people not their look. I have seen women in America who look exactly like these women especially in Texas and Louisiana.

Vanda Passos is 100 percent correct in saying that indians have the same broad nose and facial features as black people do. But is 100 percent wrong in saying that HAIR is an indicates black blood. I know white people who have ridiculously coarse hair. My daughters are black and don’t have coarse hair nor do they have chemicals in their hair to straighten it.

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 18:43:06 Mel

There are on three races and the rest are ethnicities.

@Mrs. Lee. Stop your nonsense. This is an archaic way to look at race, so please stop trying to apply it.

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 19:08:15 Mel

@Mynameismyname, Abagond DID NOT say all Afro-Brazilians are light-skinned. He said that the MAJORITY of Afro-Brazilians are light-skinned; that is true.I disagree with you, Abagond, on most Afro-Brazilians being “light skinned”. Do Pele and Serge Jorge or many of the participants on “Afro Brazilian Lives 2″ look “light and bright”?

Also, check out the film “City of God” or the classic “Black Orpheus”, both noted black Brazilian films and a variety of phenotypes within the cast!

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on Thu Sep 20th 2012 at 19:22:40 Mel

I understand the point Lola and Lisa are making. Many of the people who disagree with them are light-skinned/mixed race. But, people need to understand. As non-mixed race, dark skin black women, we are frustrated. How many times can the media choose Mariah Carey to represent us?

The majority of black women DO NOT share Mariah’s coloring/features; part of the reason she was given the opportunities she was given). Rihanna is 3-shades lighter than the typical Bajan. Every time I hear them talk about plucking Rihanna from obscurity for stardom, I cringe. I know if Rihanna shared the same dark brown color as the MAJORITY of her Bajan sisters, she would NOT have been plucked from obscurity for stardom.

People NEED to understand that dark skin black women DO NOT have have the same opportunities given to them that the Rihanna/Beyonce/Mariah Carey have had. Pretending that it’s not important to point out the discrepancy caused by coloring, and ignoring the realities is infuriating for many dark skin women.

The women on the list are part black, but not really black. Adriana Lima is beautiful but should not be called black. It HURTS dark skin black women who LOSE opportunities meant for black women to anyone with a drop of black blood, despite what these people look like.

Another way of looking at it. Imagine if a red apple is chosen to represent green apples at a showcase designed to deal with the under-representation of green apples. What’s the big deal, they’re all apples, right? No. The green apples are UNDER represented and that’s the point of the showcase.

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on Tue Nov 6th 2012 at 21:03:26 JensenJay

Too light for my liking where are the darker blackwomen?!?!? why so much light skin worship??? nobody beats darker skin black women.

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on Tue Nov 27th 2012 at 01:00:47 Edski Theman

I applaud all of these woman.. some african american women are straight haters.. no one is black except them… and I’m African American male.
in Africa black comes all sorts of complextions…..

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on Mon Dec 10th 2012 at 22:56:22 nevenera

This has been a fascinating read, a little depressing, but fascinating. By the end I was wondering what would have happened if this blog had been about beautiful white Brazilian women. Nicely enough you provided that in one of your blogs, and it was interesting to see that the discussion fell to just how ‘white’ they really were, as the discussion here fell to just how ‘black’ these women are.

I also find it interesting that if you google beautiful women (images) nearly all the images that come up are those that few would have difficulty classifying as white women. It is an interesting search, particularly if you then google beautiful women of X country.

I find this tread fascinating, because frankly most science these days is leaning towards the idea that race is really not a biological construct, but a social one. Perhaps that is why putting people in specific racial categories visually is so difficult, and yes it is equally difficult at a genetic level. Thing about this, there is more genetic variability within racial groups, than there is between them.

Put another way, I could be more similar genetically to a ‘white’ American, than I am to a black person from Africa (My parents were born in Jamaica and Barbados and both come from mixed backgrounds…yes I am a mut LOL), although few in America would consider me not black.. and I have been mistaken for Indian (both native and from India), from the middle east, and so on, my skin tone can vary from very light in winter to very dark in summer.

My sister incidentally, although from two black looking parents (my mother is very light, my father very dark), would be classified as white by anyone that saw her, and her kids with an Italian have white skin, two of them have blue eyes and one of them is blond…yes she (my sister) is genetically my dad’s child LOL.

Based on US (slave classifications) blacks could range phenotypically from pure white, to pure black, an awfully broad range for any scientific classification, and this range of course was based on dubious genetics.

Of course one could carry the genetic “one drop” theory all the way to it’s logical conclusion and point out that if the ‘out of Africa’ theory is correct (and it is stubbornly proving to be despite some desperate attempts to prove it wrong), then the discussion is mute..we are all black LOL.

I think my only issue with this article, is that I am considered a black woman here in the states and in most European countries, based only on the color of my skin. I tend to consider myself a woman, and when I feel beautiful, I don’t look in the mirror and go “wow I look like a beautiful black woman today” I think “wow I look beautiful today” If I am beautiful, how much of that comes from my African heritage, my european heritage, my amerindian heritage (who knows what else snuck in there), or is it a combination of all of them? Does it matter? Is one kind of beauty really better than another?

There are beautiful women of all races, shades, and sizes and perhaps one day google will figure that out too 🙂

Oh and back to the actual subject of the blog… Unless you have sampled the entire Brazilian population, I am not sure you can say you have found the most beautiful ‘black’ women in Brazil, just the most famous ones :), and yes they are all lovely in their own way but they represent only one kind of standard for beauty (all very thin, all very young).

I always tend to think that if everyone in the world had pale skin, but those in Africa had black hair, and everyone else was different shades all lighter than black, we would have a blog titled “Beautiful black haired Brazilian women”

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on Tue Dec 11th 2012 at 00:06:52 deepdkchocolate

What about Thais Araujo? She looks very similar to Jassica Alba yet in Brazil she is a black woman and is considered to be the first black woman to have her own television show in Brazil, that would be “Xica”
http://www.soulnaked.com/br/thais_araujo.asp

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on Tue Dec 11th 2012 at 00:20:53 deepdkchocolate

In America Thais would be considered, “mixed race” or “Latina” she herself identifies as a black woman and says she has experienced much racial prejudice in Brazil on one of her first modeling auditions for an ice cream brand she was rejected for being “black” her retort? “Black people don’t eat ice cream?” Most Black brazilians r not light-skinned and Brazil has the largest black population in the world outside of Africa. The media gives a perception that most brazilians r light-skinned but it simply isn’t so.

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on Tue May 28th 2013 at 00:58:55 Delores

I for one am seriously sick of SOME (usually darker skinned) Black women acting as though they are the authorties on who gets to be a”true Black beauty!” I have a friend who has only maybe 10%white Spanish blood.Her great granfather was half spanish white and half black. Her parents look somewhat light skin black! Yet she looks very pale like a tea color with lots of milk in it,she has golden brown eyes with almost brown red hair which is almost straight. He nose is not black or white. She is mostly black despite her appearance. Who are you to say who’s black and who’s not?

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on Wed Mar 2nd 2016 at 20:41:44 qnubian

There are so many Black Brazilian women and some of them in this list like Adriana Lima and Ildi Silva are mixed women,they do not represent the real beauty of black Brazilian women! These are really and typical black Brazilian women! Brazil is more black than people think!
Jaqueline Faria,

Sheron Menezes
https://estiloproprio.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/sheron-menezes/
Cris Vianna
http://fotos.divulgueconteudo.com/1345280-cris-vianna-fotos-junho-2015
Juliana Alves
http://www.euvejofloresemvoce.com.br/entretenimento/solteira-juliana-alves-festeja-nova-novela-estou-superanimada/

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on Tue Feb 25th 2020 at 22:02:21 Alberto Monteiro

@abagond
Would you consider these women black? (in Brazil they are white)
https://extra.globo.com/famosos/michelle-bolsonaro-passa-carnaval-em-brasilia-acompanhada-das-irmas-24270104.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Extra

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on Wed May 18th 2022 at 08:42:30 Paul Kruger

The average “black” Brazilian is heavily admixed with Whites and sometimes Indians. Only in America are most of these women considered “black”. In South Africa, most “black” Brazilians would be considered Coloured (a distinct racial group in SA), especially because none of them speak Bantu languages or have an African tribal culture.

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on Sat May 21st 2022 at 17:54:40 Michael Wilborne

Truly very beautiful Brazilian Black women. You have so many beautiful flowers in Brazil I don’t know which one can be called the perfect flower number 1. Thank you for admiring beautiful black women.

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