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American racism against blacks

tale-of-two-hoodies

America has a black president and famous black people like Muhammad Ali, Oprah and Beyoncé. It has a large black middle-class. Black America makes more money than any country in Africa – even more than Nigeria with its oil or South Africa with its diamonds and gold.

Yet:

The average black person compared to the average white person in America circa 2010:

  • is twice as likely to be out of work;
  • needs two more years of education to make the same money;
  • has four cents for every dollar a white person has;
  • dies four years sooner;
  • is six times more likely to be in prison.

Many White Americans see nothing wrong with this. Just like many saw nothing wrong with slavery or Jim Crow.

The three stages of White American racism:

slave-owner

1. Race-based slavery (1660s to 1860s): Whites use guns to steal land in North America and force blacks to work on it as slaves. But no matter how hard they try to misread Scripture they cannot hide the wrong they are doing from their eyes. So they come up with a big lie: racism, that blacks are not as good as whites, that blacks are screwed up, that blacks are born bad. They build their society on that lie. The big lie receives the backing of law, religion and science. But it does not quite work: the country cracks apart into war between the slave south and the free north.

Klan-in-gainesville

2. Jim Crow (1870s to 1960s): American apartheid. The slaves are freed but with little in the way of civil rights, property or money. Whites fear free blacks. They stereotype blacks as violent. They cow them with Klan terror and lynchings. They keep blacks separate and unequal – at the bottom of society. Scientific racism reaches its height. Many blacks move north – but whites are racist there too: “last hired, first fired”, sundown towns, black ghettos, etc.

432283_305964172802753_759319670_n

3. Colour-blind racism (1970s to present): After the civil rights movement racism no longer receives the backing of law, religion or science. Most whites think racism is wrong – yet oppose policies to overcome racism in hiring, housing, policing, schooling and so on. Meanwhile they imprison black men in record numbers, at 20 times the world rate, 40 times the rate in Ghana. They think it is blacks who are screwed up, not American society. After all, whites say, “Racism is dead” because “I do not see colour” and “My best friend is black.” Yet they still look down on blacks and fear them. Most whites live in white neighbourhoods, go to white schools and worship a white Jesus in a white church – and think it is all perfectly “natural”. Even though that world was created by racist fear (white flight). History books, magazines, television, Hollywood and the news still pump out racist messages night and day.

White Americans are very bad judges of racism: When Gallup asked them in 1962 whether black children in their community had just as good a chance of getting a good education as white children, 85% said yes.

 See also:

923 Responses

  1. Good Lord, it sounds scary when you time line it like that. Like a never ending horror story. As usual, you hit the nail on the head and strike fire into our consciousness. Thanks Abagond.


  2. Aba

    Please understand that white racism stems from fear of genetic annihilation and envy of our hue. As a recessive-gene individual, whites MUST be “at the top” of everything by ANY MEANS NECESSARY in order to remain “white”.

    In the past, my nerves were raw as I tried to make sense of insanity. All it did was drive me to the brink of madness. Now, I study the European as they have studied us. They are:

    1. The most insecure race on the planet.

    2. The real minorities as their population is approx. 10% and decreasing.

    3. Fearful of recompense for their continued evil.

    4. Greedy with a belly that refuses to be satisfied.

    5. Lacking spirituality as they are the only race who cannot live harmoniously with Mother Nature.

    Do not be fooled by the “politics” of this madness. It is only disguised in a political nature but the real reason for this continued racism is their fear of being wiped off the planet. When the European created the term “white”, it was for one reason and one reason only: to practice white racism and to elevate themselves to the top of the human pyramid.

    In their need for dominance and survival, they created a multitude of paradigms to keep us chasing our tails so we can’t “see” that they are the root cause of it ALL. Colourism, Sexism, Elitism…all illegitimate children of white racism. They have played their game of chess exceptionally well…except for one thing…

    They never expected us to last this long and grow stronger despite all the drugs, war, molestation, slavery, guns, police brutality, AIDS, glass ceilings, minstrel shows/ media destruction/ music destruction, prison systems, killings of our boys and girls, poison water/ food supply, Katrina, Haiti etc…etc…etc.

    They are baffled at our resilience and cannot come to terms with it. If they were placed in our situation, any of them, they would have died off centuries ago! This is what they fear most but will NEVER dare admit.

    Why can’t black people just die? How is it possible that we are still here? And what lies in the name of vengeance for their animosity for the Original Peoples of the Planet?


  3. ”And what lies in the name of vengeance for their animosity for the Original Peoples of the Planet?” @Sister Truth, This quote touched me because it made me think of how Yurugu is capable of the most vile acts yet is still somehow aware of the reality of karma.


  4. Truthbetold, I should make a T-shirt out of your post! Brilliant!

    And to you, Abagond, once again a spot-on post!


  5. Thanks for posting this, Julian. I had a somewhat heated discussion on Twitter last week when a reporter from Glenn Beck’s BLAZE started posting things about Louis Farrakhan. For some reason he seemed to equate Farrakhan’s racist language to the white racism Colin Powell complained about in the RNC. He just didn’t get that racism against blacks in America is not the same as racism against whites…I think I might send him a link to this post.


  6. @ larissa and todd

    Karmic belief must stem from acknowledgment of The Most High. The universe seeks balance for Herself. Nothing in nature feeds more than it needs to as it throws the delicate cycle off track. The root of a tree will drink just enough water to feed all of its limbs yet will cease when it has had enough for fear of “drowning.”

    The European, in 10,000 years, has yet to understand this simple logic.


  7. sister truth said: And what lies in the name of vengeance for their animosity for the Original Peoples of the Planet?
    I assumed from this quote that you were saying that they do (at least partially) believe in karma, they are just incapable of doing the right thing.


  8. larissa

    A great reference book is “The psychopathic racial personality” by Dr. Bobby Wright. He explains this better than I ever could.


  9. is twice as likely to be out of work;

    Yet millions of poorly educated illegals find work even though its against the law to hire them.

    needs two more years of education to make the same money;

    Yet blacks and whites with the same iq earn the same amount of money

    has four cents for every dollar a white person has;

    Yet even when blacks earn more money they still have less savings

    dies four years sooner;

    Yet black women live 3 years longer than white men.

    is six times more likely to be in prison.

    Yet blacks are 26 % less likely to be arrested than people
    of other races who committed the same crimes

    +

    The three stages of White American racism:

    The three stages of racebaiting.

    1 Identify a disparity
    2 Claim it’s discrimination regardless of evidence
    3 Rant about slavery, jim crow and “colorblind racism”
    4 Sit back while underachievers applaud


  10. Make that four stages. :oops:


  11. The thing about education though; when they get to doctorate level people of african descent make more money than white people.

    They die four years sooner and have pretty serious problems with obesity.

    They die four years sooner than white people on the whole but since the majority of black people in the US live in the south how do they compare to white people in the south?

    Twice as likely to be out of work as white people definately seems to be off.

    Four cents to every dollar too but if Church is actually right about black people having less savings even when they have more money than white people….

    Being so much more likely to be in prison seems to be off and I’ve never really heard a good explaination for that one yet.

    On the other hand Church mentions they are actually 26% less likely than other races to be arrested for similiar crimes so I have to wonder whats up with that as well.

    This also works under one kind of flaw here, it says that white americans can have a damaged and problematic culture but black americans don’t.


  12. Blacks better get right with god, cause these evil white beings are coming for us. watch your backs, they can’t be trusted for nothing in this world.


  13. Churchs,

    Are you racist…I’m sorry, I meant to say a race realist? lol

    Everyone,

    It’s funny how whites have poor judgments and understanding of what racism is. Yet, they are the first ones to tell you how we are wrong (looking at Churchs). There’s no sense in this, but hey, they are the superior race lol.

    Back to Churchs,

    Regardless of your – heh – logic, racism against blacks still persist in a more sinister form, institutional racism. Ace mentioned this in my blog. The KKK is no longer a threat to us, and it’s not because of so-called black-on-black crime, it’s because of institutionalized racism forced from the top to the bottom by ignorant overprivileged whites and the POC who cater to their whim, partly to survive.


  14. The 5th stage of racebaiting…

    If someone disagrees then accuse them of “racism” and “white privilege”.


  15. @truthbetold
    white racism stems from fear of genetic annihilation and envy of our hue. As a recessive-gene individual whites MUST be “at the top” of everything by ANY MEANS NECESSARY in order to remain “white”.

    straight from Neely fuller and Dr.welsing I see, however when I get around to doing posts on these individual and their hypothesis’s I would have to do modified extrapolations of their hypothesis ,esp Dr.welsing’s –
    specifically “why are the phenotypic traits that are African – black – melaniated – named Dominate by the establishment scientific community “read predominately – by discrimination, white” but the phenotypic traits that are albino/albinic(partial albinism) named recessive instead of subordinate?

    as to genetic annihilation, I went from empathy and fear to intense desire to see this come to pass,
    but thing is black people where/are the first people and white people are/will be the last people – where do they/you/me anyone else think we (homo sapiens) will be in 1000 years from now,how about 10,000,how about 100,000
    according to the principle of evolution and the finite nature of biological organism – we are inevitable doomed to die ,individual and collectively

    @truthbetold
    It is only disguised in a political nature but the real reason for this continued racism is their fear of being wiped off the planet.

    Yet they are also contradictorily obsessed with wearing,appearing as,ingesting and having sex with black/dark things and people as indicated by evidence provided in Dr.Welsing’s The Isis Papers ,specifically page 3 of chapter 1
    references a quote from Neely Fuller

    “Most white people hate Black people. The reason that most white people hate Black people is because whites are not Black people. If you know this about white people, you need know little else. If you do not know this about white people, virtually all else that you know about them will only confuse you. ”

    @truthbetold
    1. The most insecure race on the planet.
    The concept of race as is traditionally defined is a false concept – perhaps “phenotypically similar populations” or something else should eventually replace it, of course in may need to be one word as apposed to multiples.

    @truthbetold
    They are baffled at our resilience and cannot come to terms with it. If they were placed in our situation, any of them, they would have died off centuries ago! This is what they fear most but will NEVER dare admit.

    Hell I’m baffled by my “own” resilience, as well as creativity and intelligence.

    This last year end was a real dosey – started right around thanksgiving and continue through the “holidays” – evictions ,assaults ,illness – I thought sure I was done, but now I am actually grateful and appreciative for the pain ,abuse and deprivations (would not have admitted while going through it – mainly because I can’t see the future,and am beginning to realize I should not even want to) –

    Because now I’m at least 10 to 100 times stronger,wiser ,wealthier and happier then I was, and as to the future – in the immoral words of the 43rd USA president – Bring it!

    @truthbetold
    And what lies in the name of vengeance for their animosity for the Original Peoples of the Planet?
    The Truth.
    African Proverb – A Lie Can Run A Whole Year But The Truth Will Catch It In A Single Day.


  16. @Churchs
    Could you possible provide links/urls to specific sources for

    Yet blacks and whites with the same iq earn the same amount of money
    Yet even when blacks earn more money they still have less savings
    Yet black women live 3 years longer than white men.
    (heard about this one ,its consistent with the general trend of women having a greater life duration than men)
    Yet blacks are 26 % less likely to be arrested than people
    of other races who committed the same crimes

    The “four” stages of racebaiting.

    race baiting
    The act of using racially derisive language, actions, or other forms of communication in order to anger or intimidate or coerce a person or group of people.

    1 Identify a disparity
    2 Claim it’s discrimination regardless of evidence
    3 Rant about slavery, jim crow and “colorblind racism”
    4 Sit back while underachievers applaud

    1 .A complex issue ,so we – abagond and other african american bloggers and commenter’s do not have legitimate grievances?
    2.there has been no ,nor does thier continue to be discrimination ?
    3.our discussion of our painful and traumatic events of history and contemporary society are just rants?
    4.our issue is underachievement and abagond is exploiting it for applause(ego boosting)?

    Interesting.


  17. @ churchs

    “Yet millions of poorly educated illegals find work even though its against the law to hire them.” Those that do are paid little to nothing with no benefits.


  18. I don’t think the statement “twice as likely to be out of work” is refering to not looking for work but rather being denied work. Work that you are qualified to do..careers…not just for money work.

    After being a paralegal I strongly disagree with many crime statistics and well statistics in general. I have seen blacks get harsher sentences than whites for the same crimes or lesser crimes.

    On top of that I cant deny the accounts of several individuals.


  19. @ Mbeti

    Abagond has a policy against publishing iq and crime stats. I posted what little I did because it was in direct response to his comments. I don’t want to give him an excuse to drop the hammer. If he gives the nod I’ll provide sources.


  20. America has just about outlived is place on the planet. Just as Rome came to an end this too shall pass. America is a country which takes what doesn’t belong to them than accused it of being faulty. But this too shall pass. Their concepts have been unjust not just to Blacks but people of all color. Their terminology of people around the world just plain unjust. They call people Japs, spics, nigger devils and all kind of negative names. Yet they are the blessed of their god. But it’s all good there is a light at the end their tunnel of death hate and destruction of those who knew and know more then they ever will. The gates of their hell will be bursting open with their presence.


  21. @ churchs

    This is the comment policy … http://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/

    Nowhere does it mention or have I read abagond say one can not post iq or crime stats. He may have said put them in broken record or they are off topic (depending on he post) but not that sources could not be posted.


  22. Also, regardless of whether he gives the nod I wanted to say I checked the life expectancy and black women live a year and a half longer than white men. Its white women who live three years longer than black women. That’s where the three came from. I don’t want anyone to think I was trying to pull something.


  23. @ mbeti

    Here is the source regarding 26% less likely to be arrested than those of other races

    http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html

    I did read an article in regards to black high earners having less savings but I will have to find it.


  24. “Yet millions of poorly educated illegals find work even though its against the law to hire them.”

    Hmm… I doubt that anyone would hire me from the parking lot of Home Depot to bust up concrete or to landscape their property, and as I am an educated, born and bred American, potential employers might even be hesitant to offer me a position as a charwoman or an au pair at any amount less than a living wage…so, in these respects, the “poorly educated illegals” and I are not exactly on equal footing when it comes to scrambling for castoffs from Uncle Sam’s cornucopia….

    Though, I guess I could affect a “yas suh, boss” here and there in order to keep myself off the chow lines if ever need be…or leave off my education beyond high school and my years of professional experience from my resume in order to snare a position flipping burgers or commandeering the deep fryer at MickyD’s. .I won’t be able to pay the property taxes on my house, but at least I won’t starve to death….


  25. Churchs,

    You said, “The 5th stage of racebaiting…If someone disagrees then accuse them of “racism” and “white privilege.”

    First off, you calling it ‘racebaiting’ doesn’t make it any less true. Second, it’s not as simple as disagreeing. We call it like it is if we see any hint of racism or white privilege because it is what what it is. We can’t ignore it for anyone’s benefit because it will do more harm than good.


  26. @ mbeti

    Yet blacks and whites with the same iq earn the same amount of money

    http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e4250/R-O%27Neill.pdf
    (See ‘The Affect of Achievement on Earnings in the 1980s’, page 15)

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w5124.pdf?new_window=1

    Yet even when blacks earn more money they still have less savings

    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v64n4/v64n4p1.html

    Yet black women live 3 years longer than white men.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf (Tables 5&6 on pages 26&27)

    Yet blacks are 26 % less likely to be arrested than people of other races who committed the same crimes

    http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html

    You can confirm the results with data available online. I tried it a while back and came close to their figure. Take the incidents from tables in the NCVS report and divide them by the arrests from the FBI reports.

    NCVS incident-level data for the years 2001 to 2003 were taken from US, Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), National Crime Victimization Survey, 1992-2003. Arrest data are from: FBI, Crime in the United States, 2001, p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2002, p. 252. FBI, Crime in the United States, 2003, p. 288.


  27. @ Abagond

    You said:

    “The average black person compared to the average white person in America circa 2010:

    Is twice as likely to be out of work;
    needs two more years of education to make the same money;
    has four cents for every dollar a white person has;
    dies four years sooner;
    is six times more likely to be in prison.

    Many White Americans see nothing wrong with this. Just like many saw nothing wrong with slavery or Jim Crow.”

    I said:

    A black being twice as likely to be out of work has nothing to do with anyone but themselves and the economy.

    Two years of education more so than a white is utter nonsense as is the four cents for every dollar angle. Affirmative action is alive and well.

    Dying four years earlier has nothing to do with social standing or racism but rather the genetic makeup of the race- such as women living longer than men, more so from a gender standpoint.

    Six times more likely to be in prison? Did a white or any other non-black put the drugs in the hand of the black youth? Did a white force them to brandish a gun during a holdup?

    On the contrary: Many white Americans DO see something wrong with this, and comparing today’s problems in the black community, and ultimately with American society as a whole, to that of ridiculously racist laws of the Jim Crow era is extremely unfair.


  28. @ kingswoodroad

    Certainly Black personal responsibility plays some part in any statistic, but I think you’re missing a few things.

    A black being twice as likely to be out of work has nothing to do with anyone but themselves and the economy.”

    That’s a nice blanket assumption but without any facts that you can point to as back up. But it flies in the face of actual research.

    Chicago School of Business study:

    “For most job applicants, getting called for an interview is the first major step towards getting a job. But what if that call never comes? Can the name listed on a resume and the perceptions of race implied by this name hinder an applicant’s chances before even getting his or her foot in the door?

    In the study “Are Emily and Brendan More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?” Marianne Bertrand, an associate professor at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, and Sendhil Mullainathan of Massachusetts Institute of Technology use a field experiment to measure the extent of race-based job discrimination in the current labor market.

    From July 2001 to May 2002, Bertrand and Mullainathan sent fictitious resumes in response to 1,300 help-wanted ads listed in the Boston Globe and the Chicago Tribune. They used the callback rate for interviews to measure the success of each resume. Approximately 5,000 resumes were sent for positions in sales, administrative support, clerical services, and customer service. Jobs ranged from a cashier at a store to the manager of sales at a large firm.

    The catch was that the authors manipulated the perception of race via the name of each applicant, with comparable credentials for each racial group. Each resume was randomly assigned either a very white-sounding name (Emily Walsh, Brendan Baker) or a very African-American-sounding name (Lakisha Washington, Jamal Jones).

    The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names.

    http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html


  29. @ King

    I can cut, copy, and paste as well:

    We Cannot Blame the White People any Longer

    By Dr. William Henry ‘Bill’ Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.

    They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.

    I can’t even talk the way these people talk:

    “Why you ain’t,
    Where you is,
    What he drive,
    Where he stay,
    Where he work,
    Who you be…”.

    And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

    And then I heard the father talk.

    Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

    In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

    People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.

    The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

    These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.

    $500 sneakers for what?

    And they won’t spend $200 for “Hooked on Phonics.”

    I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

    Where were you when he was 2?

    Where were you when he was 12?

    Where were you when he was 18, and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?

    And where is the father? Or who is his father?

    People putting their clothes on backward. Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?

    People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?

    Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles (piercings) going through her body?

    What part of Africa did this come from?

    We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa.

    I say this all of the time — it would be like white people saying they are European-American — that is totally stupid.

    I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don’t have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England, Ireland, or the Netherlands.

    The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa — so stop, already!

    With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap…and all of them are in jail.

    Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem.

    We have got to take the neighborhood back.

    People used to be ashamed.

    Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.

    We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

    We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs. We, as black folks, have to do a better job.

    Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

    We have to start holding each other to a higher standard….

    -Bill Cosby


  30. I agree with what you say, but I think it is all too easy to get hung up on the negatives without stressing the positives. Blacks in America are the most progressive and richest blacks in the world (as you rightly state). You mention Nigeria and South Africa. I understand black America has more economic resources that countries like Poland. I visited Atlanta a few years ago and was amazed at what I saw. Houses, cars, Universities, businesses, professionals and very serious minded people. I have learnt a lot about history reading the likes of Dr Ivan Van Sertima and a host of others. Who have systematically and logically taken apart theories, that tried to avoid the truth. Music, philosophy, fashion, sports, education. Black Americans need to be proud of how they have risen above all the negativity and racism of others and now the First Lady is a black woman with natural “kinky” hair.

    There will always be negatives and people who would rather be in prison than in college or work, but that is their decision. I read a very interesting book a year ago – “How To deal With White People” by David Goldberg (He’s black by the way). His conclusion couldn’t have been further from the truth. People need to take pride in their melanin. It doesn’t come much better.


  31. [...] cut and yeah pasted the above from the comments section of Abagond (opens in a new page) left by Kingswood. What amazed me about these words was that a man of Bill [...]


  32. on Sun 20 Jan 2013 at 16:51:37 Cabbage Initiative

    Yo Abagond, you might be interested in this (it’s a calculating of the minimum for slavery reparations in the US):
    http://activistteacher.blogspot.ca/2013/01/calculated-minimum-reparation-due-to.html


  33. Wow.

    People are silly.

    Don’t they realize you can’t just will “facts” into existence and disregard the truth whenever you feel like it? The racist will never figure out how to actually address any truth regarding racism because they are incapable. It messes with their sense of undeserved entitlement. Great post Abagond.


  34. @ kingswoodroad

    Cutting and pasting and then posting a link to the source is the a logical method of referencing information on the internet. The problem comes when somebody views this as a POV ‘war’ where you don’t even read the other person’s information, but instead scurry to find something of your own that you can post in reply.

    The link that I provided to you was from the Chicago School of Business study, that had nothing to do with the way that people talked or looked DID YOU EVEN READ IT? It focused on simply sending out equally matched resumes with traditional African-American names on one set and Anglo-American names on the other, and then measuring the difference in response rates.

    The difference was that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants. Can you really say that people named Emily, Brendan or Marianne Bertrand, should be more employable than Lakisha Washington, Jamal Jones? This country is full of people who have ethnic sounding names. Is it OK for Chinese person to be named Zhi Wong, or is that too ethnic? Is it OK for a Lebanese Armenian to be named Ara Katouzian? Is it OK for a German American to be named Hansel Schmidt?

    BUT wait! If an African-American is named Jamal Jackson then it’s justifiable that he shouldn’t be hired!! What kind of a stupid name is Jamal!?? Why weren’t the parents intelligent enough to name him Bret Jackson, then we would hire him!!


  35. @ Ace

    Absolutely! Anyone who disagrees with your faulty logic and “facts” should automatically be labeled a racist- or your politics- a Nazi. Clever. Racism is alive and well inside your own submissive mind.


  36. @ King

    I read your post and knew exactly what I was posting. It is all relative: Whitey is out to get us nonsense, nothing more. We can’t advance because of our names; we can’t advance because of unfair drug laws, etc…I suggest you read Mr. Cosby’s lesson once again, but this time more carefully for he speaks the truth.


  37. Kingsroad, I both own and have read Bill Cosby’s book Come On People and there are a lot of observations in his book that are true and bear scrutinous consideration. However, that doesn’t mean that everything that he says is pure gold.

    Again I ask you—why is it OK for a German-American to be named Hansel Schmidt, a Spanish-American to be named Antonio Castillo, an Italian American to be named Carmine Pontedra, and a Arab-American to be named Jamal Abboud… BUT and African-American cannot be named Jamal Jackson?

    Of course, there will be no answer to this question because it is unanswerable, and clearly points out that, in this case, Bill Cosby is not making sense and neither are you. So, rather than concede this, you will continue to point in other directions, making general statements, but never touching the truth of this issue.

    Other peoples use ethnic names all the time. However, it only becomes a problem on job applications when African-Americans use them. Why? If you want to have an honest discussion you should ether refute that point, or concede to it and give your reasons why it doesn’t matter.


  38. 1 Identify a disparity
    2 Claim it’s discrimination regardless of evidence
    3 Rant about slavery, jim crow and “colorblind racism”
    4 Sit back while underachievers applaud

    1 .A complex issue ,so we – abagond and other african american bloggers and commenter’s do not have legitimate grievances?
    2.there has been no ,nor does thier continue to be discrimination ?
    3.our discussion of our painful and traumatic events of history and contemporary society are just rants?
    4.our issue is underachievement and abagond is exploiting it for applause(ego boosting)?

    1. White people are absolved from any issues regarding slavery because there couldn’t have been slavery without black people selling “their own”.

    2. All racial discrimination and subsequent issues have been resolved. We are now in a post-racial era.

    3. Yes. These issues are in the past and white people in the present have nothing to do with these issues. After all, they weren’t even alive back so how could black people have a problem with white people now? After all this time, white people certainly don’t have a problem with black people anymore.

    4. Black people have to be taken to task for our own collective dysfunction. Poverty, morality, education, health – these are not issues that white people need to bother with. Black people can and should be able to solve these problems on their own – just as white people have.

    All public policy is based on these “facts” I have presented above.


  39. @ kingswoodroad

    Unfortunately you truly did miss the point of what king said. Instead you pushed your own agenda in regards to what Mr. Crosby was saying. People like you only listen to things that you agree with and quickly dismiss things that prove you wrong. In this case actually case study findings. Did a Mr. Cosby do a case study to prove that as he problem?

    All of what you mention in that article I have seen whites do as well. So is it safe to say whites should get there act together and stop blaming there lack of job finding on affirmative action, which by the way, does not benefit blacks as Much as unknowledgeable whites seen to believe.

    Lastly the way someone acts and talks does not negate there ability to do the work. It is ignorance of certain individuals that leads them to believe that.

    For example…I know a white guy who hired a bunch of white guys and a few blacks beleiving that whites would work harder because of the negative perspective of blacks. He ended up with a few hard workers and a bunch of entitle boys who failed to do most of the work let alone the work properly.


  40. @Kingswoodroad,

    No, when you say something racist, you are racist. Its called “When the shoe fits” I think other people above have done just fine in refuting your points, so I didn’t really see a need to respond to specific posts. I do find it silly that you can’t figure out how to actually respond to those refutes, beyond typical derailing but hey, thats what racists do. :) Actually put some effort into responding to the arguments instead of trotting out Cosby (as if you have a clue about black people or Bill Cosby), and maybe I’ll take something you say seriously, hm?

    I find it silly that people feel the need to rush in and justify any anti-PoC racism like it doesn’t exist and is all in our mind, but if racists actually were aware of how the world truly works, they wouldn’t be racist.


  41. The ideas that you must act white and take on a white identity in order to succeed is racist in itself. If America was as it claims to be then one can get a job based on qualifications rather than how white their name is or is not.


  42. @ King

    Ha! Hansel Schmidt. I envision lederhosen and a huge stein of beer in one hand and bratwurst in the other.


  43. So do I.

    But even with that, the guy is still hireable.

    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41-V1bG5sfL._SL500_SS500_.jpg


  44. @ king

    Other peoples use ethnic names all the time. However, it only becomes a problem on job applications when African-Americans use them. Why?

    Lakisha and Jamal aren’t ethnic names — they’re ghetto names. I suspect trailer park names like Bubba and Jim Bob would get fewer call-backs, too. Those names are fine if you’re applying to Walmart or McDonald’s. But if you’re applying to a law firm then putting them on your resume says you’re clueless. Having a ghetto name doesn’t hurt you. Being dumb enough to put it on your resume does. If you’ve got a ghetto name then use your middle name or initials. I have a very ethnic name and I use my initials.

    Here’s another study on ghetto names by economists at the University of Chicago.

    http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/FryerLevitt2004.pdf


  45. @ legion

    That University of Chicago study is pretty much the same phenomena working in the same way as this little “gem”:

    That study is exactly the kind if thing I was talking about — find a disparity and assuming discrimination without evidence. In fact, there are enough clues in the article to think it’s probably not.

    From the article you linked:

    “The researchers said they did not know whether the panels that reviewed the grant applications were discriminating against black applicants, whether applications from black researchers were somehow weaker, or whether a combination of factors was at play.”

    “The medical research community has long struggled to recruit more minority scientists. ”

    ““It indicates to us that we have not only failed to recruit the best and brightest minds from all of the groups that need to come and join us,” Dr. Collins said, “but for those who have come and joined us, there is an inequity in their ability to achieve funding from the N.I.H.” ”

    “Members of other races and ethnic groups, including Hispanics, do not appear to run into the same difficulties.”

    “Earlier studies have found that women have largely the same level of success as men in obtaining N.I.H. grants.”

    “The study found that once final numerical scores were assigned, the second review treated scientists of all groups equally based on the scores. :

    “On the grant applications, researchers are asked to identify their race and ethnicity, but that information is not passed along to the review committees. Still, because the applications are not judged anonymously, the reviewers may know the applicant, and often race is not difficult to infer from the name or academic details. For example, a person who attended a historically black university is likely to be black. ”

    It’s obvious from those quotes what happened. The medical research community can’t find enough qualified blacks to meet their quotas so they’re using affirmative action. Less qualified candidates are less likely to receive grants. That’s why no one else has that problem. But this study argues that the disparity just has to be discrimination because someone might infer the aplicant’s race from their name or where they went to school. Well, there’s an easy way to check for that. Exclude applications from applicants with black names or black universities from the study and see if the gap remains. If it does then it wasn’t discrimination. But the guy who performed this study didn’t do that. Why not? Because he was looking for discrimination. And, by god, he was going to find it whether it was there or not.


  46. Lakisha and Jamal aren’t ethnic names — they’re ghetto names.”

    How do you make that determination?

    Jamal: is a masculine Arabic name that means “Beautiful” or “handsome.” It’s pretty widely used in the muslim world that spans a good part of the globe. The Egyptian President, Gamal Abdel Nasser (1918–1970) is an Egyptian rendering of the name. Jamal Nebez was a Kurdish mathematician and linguist. The problem is that you’ve never even looked to try and understand what that name is, where it comes from, and who bore it, In your narrow mind it’s just “ghetto.” Because of course the dumb people who chose the name couldn’t have had any good reason for selecting it. What do they know? It’s not european, so it sounds stupid.

    Lakisha is also an Arabic name, meaning “Alive” or “She who lives.” there is also an English variant, usually spelled “Lakeisha” that means “Joyful.”

    But neither name was invented in the ghetto, or somehow put together by illiterates. They are just names from another culture, that lean toward a Muslim asian world view rather than a Western Christian world view. There’s nothing ghetto about it.

    Now if you want to argue that White People think that they’re ghetto because they never cracked a book to find out where the names come from and what they mean, then that’s another argument altogether.


  47. @ Churchs

    “The three stages of racebaiting.

    1 Identify a disparity
    2 Claim it’s discrimination regardless of evidence
    3 Rant about slavery, jim crow and “colorblind racism”
    4 Sit back while underachievers applaud”

    I wrote this post the same way as the one on Arab racism:

    1. Present things that seem to show they are not racist against blacks
    2. Present things that seem racist.
    3. Present the history of racism against blacks.

    It is up to the reader to make sense of #1 and #2 in light of #3. I never say how much #2 is due to racism against blacks.

    Sometimes I do not draw conclusions, sometimes I just throw stuff out there.

    However, ELSEWHERE on this blog I have said that whites are fooling themselves if they think they are so untouched by their skinhead past that racism has somehow magically disappeared:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/teflon-theory-of-history/


  48. @ kingswoodroad

    “On the contrary: Many white Americans DO see something wrong with this, and comparing today’s problems in the black community, and ultimately with American society as a whole, to that of ridiculously racist laws of the Jim Crow era is extremely unfair.”

    That is the history all of this is coming out of. It is not only fair but necessary for anyone who SERIOUSLY wants to understand what is going on. America did not fall out of the sky: it was formed over time by a particular history.


  49. @ King

    “But neither name was invented in the ghetto, or somehow put together by illiterates. They are just names from another culture, that lean toward a Muslim asian world view rather than a Western Christian world view. There’s nothing ghetto about it.”

    Thank you.


  50. @ Churchs

    “Yet blacks are 26 % less likely to be arrested than people of other races who committed the same crimes”

    Something like that is true at least for rape – but that is because black women are less likely to report rape to the police than white women and most rape is intraracial.


  51. @ Legion

    Right, institutional racism is hard to put in a picture.


  52. Churchs, I hope you realize that the people here have all dealt with dozens of white people just like you who think they are experts on everything and who do nothing but belittle everyone who disagrees with them. I’m telling you this because it’s irritating to watch you waste both your own time and everyone else’s time with your stupid garbage.

    Cheers. :)


  53. @ everybody

    Churches is winning. Why? Because he’s a troll. If you feed the troll, you lose. So STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

    It’s also ironic how kingswoodroad uses the word “whitey” in the same exact paternalistic way that Abagond critiqued in his post on that word. I’ve only ever seen whites use the word, strangely enough.

    Abagond: “Here is a form of racism because of A, B, and C.”
    Average Joe: “That’s not racist! We’ve always done things that way.”
    Educated Earl: “Thanks for proving the point, nitwit.”


  54. @ kiwi

    Your post had me laughing and it is very true.


  55. @ king How do you make that determination?

    Blacks in America don’t traditionally use Arabic / muslim names. That didn’t start until the 1960’s when the Nation of Islam gained popularity in the ghetto. Muhammed Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabar and others adopted muslim names as part of an anti white ideology. That’s when a divergence took place among blacks between those using common western names and those using ghetto names. I’m not saying that blacks should only use western names. And I’m not saying that Arabic / moslem names are necessarily “ghetto”. But when someone from the ghetto uses them they are. At this point, ghetto names have gone way past Lakisha and Jamal. Just as often, ghetto names are made up words with ridiculous spellings. And, yes, I think celebrities who give their kids ridiculous names are idiots, too. That’s my opinion. You obviously have a different one. You’re entitled to your own opinion but your not entitled to your own facts.


  56. @ abagond

    “Something like that is true at least for rape – but that is because black women are less likely to report rape to the police than white women and most rape is intraracial.”

    Blacks being less likely to be arrested was NOT limited to rape.


  57. Churchs said:

    “Yet blacks are 26 % less likely to be arrested than people of other races who committed the same crimes

    http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html

    About “Color of Crime” the Wikipedia says:

    “The Southern Poverty Law Center called it “a kind of Bible” among its supporters but has argued that the reason for the disparity in crime rates shown in the publication is not Black genetics, but rather, the fact that Blacks have a lower socioeconomic status. The SPLC center accuses Taylor of selection bias in his statistics. The SPLC also argues that Whites are targeted for robberies simply because of their higher wealth.[12] However, Taylor counters by arguing that robberies only account for about one quarter of the total crimes committed by Blacks.[9]

    In Hate Crimes, Barbara Perry refers to the book as a classic of the genre of output by white nationalist academic racists.[13]“

    Source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Century_Foundation


  58. “Churches is winning”

    – – –

    That commenter’s username isn’t “churches”; it’s “Churchs”, an allusion to “Church’s Chicken” — a chain of fried chicken restaurants.

    http://www.churchs.com/


  59. @ abagond

    That’s a strawman. I didn’t say the different rates were genetic. Furthermore, you’ve demonstrated my earlier point about racebaiting that when someone disagrees they are accused of “racism”. I guess its just a lot easier for some to attack others personally than to support their arguments with evidence.


  60. @ churchs

    Basicly you are saying they should and are thus screwing yourself in an attempt to explain it away. You are actually proving King right. So what it was not used until around 1960s…that is not what he asked. He asked his do you determin

    The names only so far beckoned ghetto because you say so or believe so based on one living in the ghetto. That in turn makes you ignorant because based on your logic Jennifer from the ghetto means the name jennifier is now ghetto.

    Yes everyone is entitle to their own opinion but an opinion is not fact. Something you constantly fail to grasp.


  61. Correction How do you make that determination?


  62. @ Churchs

    Quoting criticisms of your source is hardly a straw man. You are basing your argument on its trustworthiness.

    Am I to believe that if I supported my argument with an NOI website you would say nothing about it?


  63. I have not finished reading it, but Colorado of crime statistics are based on arrest and not convictions. You can arrest anyone but it does not lead to them being convicted of said crime. That 26% can very well mean the individual has not been caught or the individual does not exist.


  64. Darn auto type…color of crime


  65. @ thatdeborahgirl

    Do you know the difference between an opinion and a fact?


  66. @ Cabbage Initiative

    Interesting. Thanks.


  67. Churchs, the point is that Blacks in America should not be discriminated against for using Muslim names rather than Christian names. Nobody should just look at a job application and say, “Seriously, ‘Jamal?’ That’s a ghetto name!” Its clearly unfair and wrong.

    And there are plenty of people who have names like “Jamal” who are more than respectable.

    And there are plenty of White womwn named Laticia

    It’s all absolute nonsense.


  68. @ King

    Thank you. Very well put.


  69. As far as I can tell Churchs is saying that a person with a “ghetto” name came from an ignorant background and that you should not get your hopes up on getting a career because it was your family’s fault for giving you such a name. And it’s not the company’s fault for not hiring you even if you are qualified.

    This is another case of blaming the other for being ‘the other’. And I doubt Churchs truly believe that if your name was ‘Bubba’ or ‘Jim Bob; you would have less of a chance of being hired. But being named ‘Deshawn’ or ‘Shaniqua’ is an automatic fail. And it’s not the fault of institutionalized racism, but on the black community.


  70. Thank you, Sharina.

    @ Churches

    What you have to remember is that names are just sounds that are strung together to signify a person, place or thing. They are a part of language and language is always evolving. It is likely that every word you now type or speak, was once a new word to the English language.

    So when people decide that they want to call there children something other than the societal norm, people are certainly free to dislike the new name, they may even ridicule it, but there is no justification in discriminating against a person because you’re not used to their name. I’m sure that Bertrand, and Helmut, and Horatio may have sounded funny once as well.

    You have to get over the idea that things that don’t fit in are necessarily wrong or less intelligent than the middle American norm. And besides, a lot of the names people think of as ghetto names are not. Case in point, Beyoncé is a French name, that nobody would bat any eye at in France. However, because it was attached to a Black singer, many people assumed her parents stayed up late one night stringing syllables together until they came ip with it. But even if they did do THAT it is how new names have always been created and Black people (even the ones in the ghetto) are no less entitled to add their own new names to the lexicon.


  71. @ King,

    Great point on the names there.

    http://www.meaning-of-names.com/english-names/laticia.asp

    I am convinced it is about race, because names that don’t even originate with African Americans are considered ghetto ONLY if African Americans have them. I.e. Monique is common among white women, yet only black women are labeled as ghetto when they have it. But since no one wants to get in trouble or be associated with less “fashionable” forms of racism, no one literally calls it as such.

    However, I know that white families with black sounding names or surnames deal with some housing discrimination and job discrimination.

    @ Church,

    For someone who is so dismissive of anything black, I find it interesting that you are using black people to make your points for you. Can you explain why you think that video proves anything in regards to your points please?

    For your information, Lakisha is actually a variant of Lakeisha, which is Arabic and has a specific meaning. I actually feel that if a black woman walked in with Boudiccea as a name, people would still discriminate because it would be “ghetto”, even though it is not a name that black people created and belongs to a very famous historical figure. Its about the “black”, not the name. You cannot accurately deduce qualities from a name.

    http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

    Here, in a blind study, people tested how employers respond to “black” names versus “white ones” with similar credentials.

    The fact of the matter is that people are being told that in America, a so called meritocracy, you have to have a white name and assimilate into a white culture in order to succeed. Take someone who works hard all of their life, gets degrees, tries to get a job, and is rejected due to the fact that “Jamal” is on their resume. They are not an underachiever, they are not “ghetto” (that is not a true description of any one person). If they happened to be from a “ghetto” it shouldn’t reflect on their chances for a job IF America is not as racist as Abagond says. If you associate “ghetto” with a group of people or a specific culture, that contributes to discrimination. You can’t have it both ways. If America isn’t racist, “Jamal” shouldn’t have more issues getting a job than “Jason” should. He did not choose his name, and if Janet Weiss can get a job, so should he.

    It is part of the institutional racism that Abagond has labeled up there. Its not just with blacks, its with Asians and Middle Easterners too. Even Hispanics and Latinos report name discrimination, and many of these people are extremely qualified.


  72. on Mon 21 Jan 2013 at 04:38:07 grin and bear it

    Really Churchs? You’re backing up your statements with statistics from the “Color of Crime?” A publication funded by the New Century Foundation? You do know they self-identify as a white separatist, “race realist” (i.e. RACIST) group. That being said, I suppose they’d never manipulate data to push their own agenda.


  73. where did you find that picture? its sums it up perfectly


  74. I was listening to the radio and they were talking about rooney rule which is basically affirmative action for sport coaches.Some of the white callers were saying it should be removed.Its like to whites affirmative action is not necassary anymore.They think blacks are the ones keeping racism alive .They say blacks are whiners and too sensitive.I wouldn;t expect them to understand its like a dog whistle,the dogs can hear it but humans can’t does that mean the sound doesn’t exist?We see racism even the subliminal racism while whites just see the extreme racism.


  75. Blacks are the original people,even national geographic did a show that showed how the first humans originated in africa and as they spread out they lost their color because of the climates.SO when whites hate blacks they hate themselves they hate their ancestor.I actually feel sorry for them.New doesnt mean better.


  76. One question about that study it started in July “2001” and ended in May “2002” right?

    So about a little over half of that study of arabic names took place after 911?

    A retake of that study might need to be done; if could be mixing Islamophobia with Racism.


  77. Actually just clicked on that link with the more recent study; seems to be the same more or less, so there you go.


  78. I live in a small upper midwest town (20,000). There are some black people here. I know one because his son and mine were in a garage band together in high school. I saw a black guy working at a grocery store. I see others from time to time but it’s not something that happens every month. So this is very nearly a totally white community.
    There are black neighborhoods in big cities which I would be a fool to walk around in. Those neighborhoods are very dangerous, crime ridden and whites are hated. Yes, I am afraid of the black people who live there because they might rob me, beat me or even kill me. I won’t go there. However, you are welcome to come visit or live in our nearly 100% white town. You need have no fear. Crime is rare here. You will be treated just like anyone would be…in a friendly manner.
    Does my fear of black people in big cities reveal that I am a racist?


  79. @ Delwin D. Schryver

    More like prejudiced due to media stereotypes.

    What you are imagining is not the way it really is in most cases. Black high crime neighborhoods are mostly violent because of the gang drug wars. Most of the crime is Black on Black. Of course, its possible to get mugged for money, but it actually doesn’t happen to most people (even White people).

    Many Black people live in mixed neighborhoods alongside families of differing racial backgrounds. Your problem is that you have very little exposure to real Black people so you’re going based on society’s rather distorted image. My advice is to suspend your judgement until you’ve met quite a few more real life Blacks. Don’t go by what you’ve seen on TV or the movies.


  80. “Delwin D. Schryver
    However, you are welcome to come visit or live in our nearly 100% white town. You need have no fear. Crime is rare here. You will be treated just like anyone would be…in a friendly manner.
    Does my fear of black people in big cities reveal that I am a racist?”

    Linda says,

    I normally don’t participate in these types of posts because I find its pointless to even speak to you trolls or well meaning white people who feel that whites are not part of the “racial problem”. It’s a waste of space talking to you — it’s like trying to get a donkey to move, no matter how many times you kick it, the d’mn thing won’t budge.

    That being said, I must say:

    LOL, Delwin, what you wrote has got to be one of the funniest set of lines I’ve read in a while :-)

    I think you just described many black Americans worst nightmares —being stuck in an almost 100% town with “friendly” white people (just like in the Psycho movies right before the knife comes down)…that scenario (of being in 100% white town) used to put fear into black peoples hearts prior to the 1970’s. (I’ll let you figure out why)

    I’m sure you are aware the fear and prejudice goes both ways, but guess which group started it???…

    ding, ding, ding — if you guessed white Americans, then you win the prize.

    There’s a line from a song that I once heard that always stuck with me:
    “You can’t destroy what you did not create”…

    and black people didn’t create the racial hatred in the US…so

    if it keeps you “race realists” warm at night, Keep telling yourself that black people are causing all the problems…and may your perfect little “white” towns continue to flourish as your white teens/men plan their next big elaborate mass murder in your perfect white towns — hope you all have enough guns & bullets.


  81. @ Ace, Brothawolf, King, Sharina and Sheniqua.

    You’ve written a lot about what you think I said or what you think I meant to say. You should go back and read what I actually did say. Most of your points were addressed and refuted in my previous comments. I won’t write a novel addressing all the things you claim I said just because you couldn’t be bothered to read and understand them the first time. I will however expand on this point. You’re conflating ghetto names receiving fewer callbacks with “racism”. I’m not. As I already said, trailer park names would receive fewer callbacks, too. So a better comparison would be showing up for an interview in shorts and a tank top. Someone who does that probably won’t get called back. It’s not because of race. It’s not so much because of class, either. It’s because they’re too clueless to realize its inappropriate. People may not be responsible for the names their parents give them but they are responsible for using them on their resume. Shanaynay Latricia Jackson can easily become Shana L. Jackson. I used to do the same thing with my own resumes.

    Moreover, the study I already linked shows there’s no loss of earnings regardless of whether someone gets fewer callbacks. So everyone ends up with a job making what they would have made anyway. In other words, they make the same as other dumb people without ghetto names.

    http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/FryerLevitt2004.pdf


  82. @ abagond

    Quoting criticisms of your source is hardly a straw man.

    That depends on the nature of the criticism. The quote argued the reason for the disparate crime rates was socio-economic rather than genetic. That may or may not be true but its a strawman because neither I nor the report said it was genetic.

    You are basing your argument on its trustworthiness.

    No. I’m basing my argument on the data found in government reports. You may have overlooked an earlier comment where I said I had verified their results.

    Am I to believe that if I supported my argument with an NOI website you would say nothing about it?

    That depends. If there was reasonable evidence to support a claim then I’d give it strong consideration. Unlike you guys, I don’t discount a claim because of the person or group who makes it. Rather, I discount a person or group because their claims are unfounded. Even so, I try to evaluate each claim on its own merits regardless of who makes it. Granted, there are some claims and evidence that are beyond my ability to evaluate. In those cases I have to defer to mainstream consensus of the recognized experts in the field.


  83. @ sharina

    I’m sure you are aware the fear and prejudice goes both ways, but guess which group started it???

    Tell that to a little white kid going to school in a black housing project. I’m sure he’d appreciate hearing that the reason he’s being attacked is because “whites started it”.


  84. “Churchs
    @ sharina
    I’m sure you are aware the fear and prejudice goes both ways, but guess which group started it???

    Tell that to a little white kid going to school in a black housing project. I’m sure he’d appreciate hearing that the reason he’s being attacked is because “whites started it”.”

    Linda says,

    If you’re going to address my quotes, at least address the correct person, cupcake!

    little white kid gets the same treatment that little black kids in an all white school have receive…so what’s you’re point — white Americans still created the racism in this country,

    so you’re liitle white kid gets to deal with the fall out of racism that WHITE people created — see how the chickens always come back to roost…


  85. @ Churchs

    Maybe you should go back and read not only my post but your own because you seem…well confused. Which is nt surprising seeing as you talk yourself in circles on ever thread you get on.

    For starters I never mentioned anything about what you said amounting to racism but rather to you being ignorant of different culture, which lead you to make an assumption of names being ghetto. Did you not say this: ”. But when someone from the ghetto uses them they are.

    So if you are not saying that where a person lives changes the way a name is viewed then what are you saying?

    Now the question presented by king was how did you determine those names were ghetto..so far you decided to conclude your opinion was a fact and kings was just an opinion. Yet it is a fact that those names are not ghetto.

    Lastly the point you want to dance around is why should people have to change their names or use different names in order to be considered for a job? Qualification is what should count. In your post you even advocate using your middle name to avoid ethnic identity. I was not wrong in what Inpicked up but you once again what to dismiss the fact that your screwdriver yourself with your own words.


  86. I have not addressed anything more than your ignorant frame of mind, which was brought out in your debate with king. Not once did I call you racist or scream racism towards your post. So in short you have fallen into your own rules of racebaiting.


  87. @ linda

    And that is a prime example of how church’s talks himself into so many circles that he does not know what he is talking about and who he is talking to.


  88. @ Churchs

    You’re conflating ghetto names receiving fewer callbacks with “racism”. I’m not. As I already said, trailer park names would receive fewer callbacks, too.

    Here is your previous quote that you refer to

    I suspect trailer park names like Bubba and Jim Bob would get fewer call-backs, too.

    The problem is that there is no such thing as trailer park names. Bubba is a nickname that means good old boy. I believe it was a moniker used of our beloved 42nd president. Names like Jim Bob simply break into first and middle names on a job application. And in any case, a person only has to drop using their second name and become “Jim.” You can’t do that if your name is Jamal.


  89. “sharina
    @ linda
    And that is a prime example of how church’s talks himself into so many circles that he does not know what he is talking about and who he is talking to.”

    Linda says,

    That’s why I mentioned that I normally don’t even respond to these types of posts because it attracts too many white American race realist donkeys…

    and I have no desire to talk with them because they are not looking to exchange views in an earnest way– they are looking to be seen and heard like whores on a street corner…I’m not interested in hearing their tainted points of view.


  90. @ linda

    I don’t blame you, but it always shocks me at the level of just plain stupidity they display. The mere fact that they believe they spout the absolute is mind boggling.


  91. Delwin said,

    “I live in a small upper midwest town (20,000). There are some black people here. I know one because his son and mine were in a garage band together in high school. I saw a black guy working at a grocery store. I see others from time to time but it’s not something that happens every month. So this is very nearly a totally white community.
    There are black neighborhoods in big cities which I would be a fool to walk around in. Those neighborhoods are very dangerous, crime ridden and whites are hated. Yes, I am afraid of the black people who live there because they might rob me, beat me or even kill me. I won’t go there. However, you are welcome to come visit or live in our nearly 100% white town. You need have no fear. Crime is rare here. You will be treated just like anyone would be…in a friendly manner.

    Does my fear of black people in big cities reveal that I am a racist?”

    In the first place, like King said, you may be going by stereotypes, and you take those stereotypes as the default of how black communities are. If you see black people in your community working, why would you consider them to be the exception and not the rule?

    Yes. No one is disputing there are black neighborhoods that are crime ridden, but to base that purely on race is absurd. Such neighborhoods are crime ridden because of poverty, limited education and drugs imported by means outside that neighborhood with the help of the U.S. government.

    However, most black neighborhoods are not stricken by crime. I live in one in which crime is rare. But crime doesn’t happen simply because black people are there. That is a racist conclusion to make. I’m sorry, but it is what it is.

    I’m curious as to why you think black neighborhoods are dangerous in big cities and that they hate whites enough to rob, beat, and/or kill you? Again, like King said, it sounds like you got it from the media. If so, you need to understand that (a.) you can’t take what the television, especially the news, tells you as being the objective truth, and (b) you need to understand that the news is sensationalized to profit off of fear. The news overreports crime by minorities while underreports crimes by whites. The news also have a racial bias portrayal of criminals based on color and status. Remember the reporting of Adam Lanza? Nuff said.

    I will say that I will be afraid to move to a white town because I know I will be feared. I will be hated and I will be suspected. Not everyone in such a town will treat me that way, but some will. The story is always the same, one or a few or even a hundred black criminals means that the whole damn race is criminal. We don’t have the privilege of being seen as individuals or as something other than the usual negative stereotypes.

    You may say that I will be treated in a friendly manner, but I am willing to bet that behind my back some white folks will tear me apart in their whites-only conversations.


  92. @ Delwin D. Schryver

    I live in a large coastal western city (60,000). There are some white people here. I know several because we worked on homework and projects together in high school. I saw some white guys working at a grocery store. I see others from time to time but it’s not something that happens every day. So this is very nearly a totally Asian community.
    There are white neighborhoods in trailer parks which I would be a fool to walk around in. Those neighborhoods are very dangerous, crime ridden and Asians are hated. Yes, I am afraid of the white people who live there because they might rob me, beat me or even kill me. I won’t go there. However, you are welcome to come visit or live in our nearly 70% Asian city. You need have no fear. Crime is rare here. You will be treated just like anyone would be…in a friendly manner.
    Does my fear of white people in trailer parks reveal that I am a racist?


  93. @brothawolf:

    “The KKK is no longer a threat to us, and it’s not because of so-called black-on-black crime, it’s because of institutionalized racism forced from the top to the bottom by ignorant overprivileged whites and the POC who cater to their whim, partly to survive.”

    Spot on. That is it in a nutshell.

    @delwin:

    “Does my fear of black people in big cities reveal that I am a racist?”

    No, but it shows you live in the racist culture and system which makes you fear the blacks in the big cities. I bet you are not shivering from fear when watching the NFL and yet, many of those black athletes live in big cities. You see?

    @all:

    I think this thread exposes the racism in USA pretty well and accurately. The belief in race as a biology lives on and is believed as a truth, when it should be known by all by now that it is not. There is only one human race on the planet biologically.

    The corner stone, the foundation of racism, is to believe in such nonsense. And what I read here reveals that in USA the belief to that age old racist myth is still strong and there fore still in use at all levels of the society, which makes it one of the biggest problems of all. And it will be as long as anyone, black OR white, believes in racial hierarcy or the race as a biological fact for what ever reason. And as long that belief is alive, there will be the racist system in place.


  94. some of my relatives live in an all black neighborhood,but it wasn;t always black it used to be mostly white then they fled lol.There are blacks in those neighborhoods that do have their house nice and the lawn mowed ,they take pride in their neighborhood.Then there are some that do not.Unfortunately the ones who are bringing down the neighborhood are drug dealers and gangs.There are residents there who are hardworking and nice.People just think of black neighborhoods as bad whereas a white neighborhood is good? i think it is more of a class issue than a race issue.America has all these sterotypes about blacks and poor people.Be careful blacks will rape,rob,or kill you.Be careful the poor will be living off your tax dollars.The bigger criminals who wear a suit and tie and steal millions of dollars get away with it.


  95. @ Sam

    “I think this thread exposes the racism in USA pretty well and accurately.”

    Good summary. Thanks.


  96. Agabond,
    Did you call the exterminator. I see you still have a pest hanging around.


  97. @ linda so you’re liitle white kid gets to deal with the fall out of racism that WHITE people created — see how the chickens always come back to roost…

    When blacks attack a white kid it’s the white kid’s fault?

    @ sharina Lastly the point you want to dance around is why should people have to change their names or use different names in order to be considered for a job? Qualification is what should count.

    Are you saying the best qualified person should be accepted to universities and hired for jobs regardless of their race?


  98. This is why I got the heck out of America…I’ve been living in Finland now for seven years and even though there’s more than enough racism to still keep me up nights; it’s a cake walk compared to my birth land. Funny thing is, Fin’s judge me on being American and at times want to bestow a privilege of sorts on me…for not being a Somali or Muslim (however repulsive that sounds.) White people are the same everywhere…( and yes I’m married to a Finnish man) but at least this country owes me nothing and Fin’s don’t politically move against their own best interest to spite some conquered “other.” I hardly breath USA to my children….a horrible place.


  99. This thread also peels back another layer to show us why some Black Americans remain at the bottom in some opinion polls.

    Black Americans from my parents generation had a lot of justification for their anger and opposition, but in this thread, some Blacks seem to be arguing to defend the indefensible.
    When a Black American parent gives their son a made up name like “Dasheit” or a girl a name like Matidi. That is not only ignorant. It’s abusive.Yes, it’s their right to give them those names, but why do so many Black Americans defend this? It makes Black Americans look like idiots to give their children names that will make life harder for them. This has become a standard practice. It would be different if these parents were the president of the United States or controlled industries,

    In a Mother Theresa world, everyone would embrace a black boy with the name Dasheit, but no one lives in that world. In the real world, Dasheit will simply have another struggle many days because of his name.

    My parents gave me and my siblings African middle names and they told us what those names meant in the cultures where they were derived. Inside our family, we’ve often talked about our names and use them. Those names enrich our identity and give us strength and purpose but on my resume, I use an initial for my African name. I don’t need to broadcast it.

    Many Black Americans have Arabic names and some have African names and most have no idea what those names mean. I’ve asked some of them. I think they should legally change their names. A name like Jamal could be changed to James or shortened to “Al.” Some men from Arab and African backgrounds do this all the time in the professional world. They know who they are inside and don’t need to make a statement with their name to get attention.

    My point is why do Black Americans struggle with names that are meaningless to them. If they’re seeking an identity, then it does no good to have a name and not know what it means or be burdened with a name like Matidi. A name change would give them one less struggle.


  100. Abagond, I have another comment in moderation. What am I doing wrong?


  101. @ Jorbia

    There are a few moderated words I tell no one about to catch trolls. Not trolls like Churchs but the kind who would flood this blog with their vile vomit.


  102. @Abagond

    Are you saying that something in my above comment is “vile vomit”? I would appreciate it if you made this more clear because I’m not using epithets or anything like that.


  103. @ Jorbia

    If your comment was vile vomit I would have killed it in moderation. But it was flagged because it uses words that, while harmless in themselves, have been used vilely in the past.


  104. Many Black Americans have Arabic names and some have African names and most have no idea what those names mean. I’ve asked some of them.

    But Jorbia, how many people can tell you what the name “John” means? We don’t much go for names because of their meaning these days. Besides, the US is a multi cultural society. We don’t expect every immigrant to change their name to Ralph, Pete, or Suzy. We don’t expect everyone to throw away their hummus, their somas, their kabobs, their enchiladas, and eat hot dogs every day.

    What you are saying, in essence, is that you shouldn’t have an ethnic name unless your ethnicity is based somewhere in Europe. English, Irish, German, French, Scandinavian, even Italian names are “American enough” but if you are from somewhere else you should change your name.

    I think it makes more sense to push tolerance and respect for all cultures, and the names that come out of them. Take Shakespeare’s admonition.


  105. Can’t we all just get along?


  106. Ok–I’ll study my comment above to see which words might be flagged in the future.


  107. @King–

    But Jorbia how many people can tell you what the name “John” means? We don’t much go for names because of their meaning these days.

    Who is “we”? Speak for yourself. Some Black American parents don’t give their children names that will impede them. I was born in May and my mom told me she thought of the name “Mayflower” when she first saw me, but that’s not the name on my birth certificate.

    Besides, the US is a multi cultural society..

    The U.S. is a predominantly “White” society in terms of power. That”s why other groups like Asians and Arabs keep their eye on who holds the power. Other groups adapt themselves to that on the surface at least because we don’t live in a Mother Theresa world. Despite feminism, women, also have to adapt themselves to the fact that men hold most of the power in the world. Black Americans have a lot of money as a group and that makes them feel good, but they don’t band together to use it to create power for their group, as Whites have done.

    Everything boils down to power. When you have enough power as a group, you don’t even need to give your child any name at all or give him a name like !!!!!!! if you want. So many Black Americans keep talking about what “should” be happening because they seem to be such idealists.

    What you are saying, in essence, is that you shouldn’t have an ethnic name unless your ethnicity is based somewhere in Europe. English, Irish, German, French, Scandinavian, even Italian names are “American enough” but if you are from somewhere else you should change your name.

    You are misinterpreting me and imposing your views on what I say. Some Whites I personally know whose parents came to America from Europe changed their name when they first came here several generations ago to a more Anglo Saxon spelling and most others in their ethnic group did the same thing. Many Jews also changed their names, as do some people in other groups. .


  108. It boggles my mind how the most racist white people are the least likely ones to see the racism against black ppl in America…

    SN:
    Why would you discriminate against someone because of a name? I understand if it’s spelled, for lack of a better term, “stupid”, but WHY is Lakeisha anymore wrong than naming someone Kelly??? Both of them are simply a compilation of sounds. Neither is smarter, more moral, or better. Sounds.. a bunch of freaking sounds…..


  109. Imagine you are a good white person who tries to be color blind and you read truthbetold’s first comment.

    That was the most racist comment I have ever read on here and that is saying something. …. Just because it’s against the white race doesn’t make it ok.


  110. “So many Black Americans keep talking about what “should” be happening because they seem to be such idealists. ”

    ********

    You say this as if being an “idealist” is a bad thing relative to those white men (and women) whose appetite/cravings are driven by attaining and having insatiable power. People who have this type of mis-wiring (need to control and harm others) are a stain on humanity.

    We all know what living on planet controlled by power mongers is like! WHY NOT at least attempt an idealistic world lifestyle where everyone prospers and no one is mistreated and marginalized for any reason?

    Oh, wait … that’s impossible, it’s too Mother Theresa like according to you.
    I’m rooting for those “idealists” that keep talking … desiring a paradigm shift .. wanting the impossible to happen, anxious for THAT day to come.. however it may come.


  111. Abolishing slavery was once “idealistic” too.


  112. @ kiwi

    Rofl


  113. dave wrote

    “Imagine you are a good white person who tries to be color blind and you read truthbetold’s first comment.”

    ******

    Okaaay … lol

    I imagine that if am a good white person who tries to be color blind – I would likely come to the conclusion that color blindness is BS. I mean, come on now. The only people that don’t see color are those who are Blind and those who are “literally” Color Blind. Everyone else sees …

    If I as a good white read TBT first’s comment, I’d STILL be a good white person – maybe even a better white person with a bit more understanding, enlightenment and knowledge of how corrosive and harmful ALL manner of racism/white supremacy is. PERIOD!

    That’s what I would *imagine* if I were a GOOD white person reading that comment.


  114. @Cynic,

    Exactly! I see people with names like LaTonya and Imania with professional credentials and jobs all the time…


  115. @ mstoogood4y’all

    I go to black neighborhoods and not once did I feel not safe. He majority of blacks are not like that. Yet that type of mindless thinking is alive and well. People don’t realize that you can be shot, killed, and robbed anywhere.


  116. @Kiwi
    STOP FEEDING THE TROLL(s)
    This post has become very troll infested
    I should have known better but I was on a polite roll;-/
    The rule for trolls is to ignore them – rational dialogue is futile
    as is expecting normal hueman responses like empathy ,sympathy or compassion much less reason or truth.

    To all the normal commentators and the blog owner I apologize for my lapse of discipline.

    @Linda
    they are looking to be seen and heard like whores on a street corner…
    ow I like that one:-)


  117. @ churchs

    Nope that is not what I am saying. I said a person should get a job based on qualifications and not a name. If you failed to read that in those quotations then please see your optometrist. If siht is not your pro len then please look into your local “I can read” programs.


  118. @Matari–

    You say this as if being an “idealist” is a bad thing relative to those white men (and women) whose appetite/cravings are driven by attaining and having insatiable power.

    First of all, do you really believe it’s only Whites who have an appetite for great power. The fact is that a lot of men would want a lot of power if they could get it.

    In terms of idealism vs pragmatism, you’re setting this up as an either/or situation. My gripe with so many Black Americans is that they spend too much of their time behaving as if they’re helpless, on their knees praying for others to help them or be nice to them. It’s a matter of proportion. I’d say my leanings are 10% towards idealism and 90% achievement. This is what I would support among other Black Americans, So, I wouldn’t say I’m anti-idealism. I just disagree with the amount of focus it sucks up among many of the Black Americans I encounter.

    @ Abagond–

    Abolishing slavery wasn’t a matter of mostly being about idealism. Black Americans knew that mere idealism was futile. That would have just been talk without action. They were instead highly achievement-oriented. That’s why they worked to learn how to read, get as much education as possible, delay gratification, make sacrifices, own land, get married, raise strong families, start businesses, and in other words: ACHIEVE.


  119. @ jorbia

    In he sense of not knowing what the name means I understand where you are coming from, but in the sense of changing it to make life easier I disagree. Why in a coutry that claims equality should a person Pacific one race? In a sense that individual is still like a slave. They are given or are to use the name the slave master deems appropriate in order to get by. Dare to have an identity beyond a white one or be punished for it.


  120. Now I will say this on the issue of names. There is a black doctor in my area named princessa. Very successful.


  121. @ Bulanik

    That is one of my biggest fear for my children. I don’t want them to be ashamed to be different.


  122. @ Jorbia & Legioon

    First let me lend a little more clarity to my argument. I get that there are extremes in naming that one can go to. If you name your child “Moonbeam” or “Rikki tikki tavi” it is likely to cause problems for the child. That is one side of the equation. I certainly wouldn’t name any child of mine Moombeam or ShakaZulu for that matter. So that would be my reasoning as a would-be parent. But the other side of the equation is that if a woman sent in her resume to me and she had comparable education and experience for the position I was trying to fill, I would certainly not take her resume out of the stack because her first name happened to be Moonbeam.

    But in most cases, we’re not talking about names that are even all that crazy. Half the time it’s simple names like Monique, Desiree, or Adèle which are really all proper French names.

    Or they may be African names like Akeelah (which means intelligent) or Imani or Aisha, or Jamilah (which means elegant). None of these names are somehow “crazy” and it’s no great sin for a person of African descent to decide to choose a Swahili or Yoruban name for their child. Nobody should assume that a child named Jamilah is less qualified than a child named Jackie.

    The U.S. is a predominantly “White” society in terms of power. That”s why other groups like Asians and Arabs keep their eye on who holds the power. Other groups adapt themselves to that on the surface at least because we don’t live in a Mother Theresa world.

    There is no problem with Blacks, Arabs, or Asians who decide to choose Western names for their children. Most do. But there should also be no problem with Arabs, who keep their Muslim name, Asians who keep their Chinese names, or Blacks who decide to choose an African name.

    The US is not Europe. Everyone who came here came from somewhere else. As demographics change, and populations shift, other culture’s languages and names will become more prominent and influential. Power in transient, and evolutionary. Part of changing things is challenging the current power structure with new ideas about what is ‘normal.’


  123. If the president of the United States can have the name Barack Hussein Obama and still be elected as president TWICE. Why should it matter what any American citizen chooses to name themselves? Unless of course they wish to conform to some mono-culturally imposed system or standard.

    That is…they prefer not to “rock the boat” in case of exclusion from any perceived rewards they might obtain.


  124. @Bulanik

    It really comes down to some people fearing going against the norm. I understand your sisters position because that was mine at one point. I was introduced to different cultures and was fascinated by them. My children have Been introduced to every culture possible. Because I want them to respect them. I want her to know being different is ok and what makes you beautiful.


  125. @ Legion

    Then I must have chose well because my kids have an ethnic name, white name, and Hispanic name. Lol. Prepared for any change of events.


  126. @ Legion

    Well, maybe it depends on where you live, but in LA, having a name like Jamal is no big deal at all. I work for an international Fortune 100 corporation, and I deal with people all day long with Armenian, Persian, Hindi, Spanish, Eastern European, Filipino, Chinese and Japanese names and that’s just in the LA office. I’d say that the ratio of ‘foreign names’ to tradition would be about 40/60.

    But if a person likes the sound of a name, or likes the person who bears the name then is it really so crazy to choose it? I mean, Amalia is a Spanish name, so if anglo chose it for her daughter would she be ignorant or abusive or fake because she isn’t spanish? Araceli in a Hindi name, so if a Mexican woman thought that is sounded pretty, and chose it for her daughter, would she be wrong because she lacked an obvious cultural connection to such a name?

    Personally, I don’t see it.


  127. In my opinion there are better studies that show discrimination against Blacks in employment than the University of Chicago “names” study, such as: http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/annals_sequencingdisadvantage.pdf
    The Princeton study looks at the very negative consequences of having a prison record if you’re Black.

    Here’s the study on call-back rates by name:
    http://www.chicagobooth.edu/pdf/bertrand.pdf

    As for names associated with “Blackness” – if you like older movies you probably remember Tyrone Power:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Power The name comes from county Tyrone in Ireland.

    Some comments from Arthur Hu about the Betrand-Mullainathan Names study.

    STUDY CLAIMS BLACK “SOUNDING” NAMES GET FEWER RESUME CALLBACKS
    z63\clipim\20031\15\bertrand.pdf
    There’s a copy of the paper (not necessarily the final version) at
    http://www.irs.princeton.edu/seminars/Bertrand.pdf

    Here’s Table 2. Almost as interesting as the difference between black and white
    names is the difference within categories, especially Black Female. The
    differences within the other categories are not statistically significant (notice
    the smaller sample sizes for Black Male).

    Mean Call-Back Rates By First Name

    White Female
    ————
    Emily 8.3% 19/228
    Anne 9.0
    Jill 9.3
    Allison 9.4
    Sarah 9.8
    Meredith 10.6
    Laurie 10.8
    Carrie 13.1
    Kristen 13.6 29/214

    Black Female
    ————
    Aisha 2.2% 4/180
    Keisha 3.8
    Tamika 5.4
    Lakisha 5.5
    Tanisha 6.3
    Latoya 8.8
    Kenya 9.1
    Latonya 9.1
    Ebony 10.5 22/209

    White Male
    ———-
    Neil 6.6% 5/76
    Geoffrey 6.8
    Brett 6.8
    Brendan 7.7
    Greg 7.8
    Todd 8.7
    Matthew 9.0
    Jay 13.2
    Brad 15.9 10/63

    Black Male
    ———-
    Rasheed 3.0% 2/67
    Tremayne 4.3
    Kareem 4.7
    Darnell 4.8
    Tyrone 5.3
    Jamal 6.6
    Hakim 7.3
    Leroy 9.4
    Jermaine 11.3 6/53


  128. A lot about this issue has to do with how many people have got your back when you give your child one of “the names”. If you have plenty of people who will back you and open doors for your child, then you can give them whatever name you want.We know that certain racial and ethnic groups like Whites and Hispanics will have each others’ back and open doors for each other a lot more than Blacks will, So, if you don’t have that in place, then you should think twice before sending your child out into society with that kind of name burden on their back.

    Keep in mind I’m not talking about all of the names either, just some of the made up ones, like Dasheit, Matidi and L’Hyara.


  129. The black people on this blog must understand that whites will argue to the death to defend their true nature. What I do not understand is why we keep falling for it. We never question why a dog barks or why fish swim. We just accept it as being apart of nature’s design for said creature.

    Whites must continue to do the things that they do. They flock to this blog to show this on a daily basis. Their His-Story tells us, quite plainly, what they stand for.

    It is hardwired in their fibers to be combative, oppressive, dangerous and destructive to all things including themselves. Only they cannot see that their deeply embedded racism hurts them as well as us! Only they cannot see that their evil will put forth a destructive path in the lives of their offspring. Only they cannot see that being antithetical to Nature is the root cause of destruction on the planet.

    Every religion/ tribe/ clan that is rooted in Melanin teaches of the Male-Female principle of life. You must have both in order to have balance. Whites are out of balance with Earth as they only possess the Male principle. That is why they continue to be disagreeable with life. Blacks have been told from day one by these “beings” that we are “what’s wrong with America”. It has forced us to take a hard look at our own dysfunctions…any there are many.

    But…by being introspective, we grow. We learn. We understand what needs to be done to change ourselves for our own survival. We have a lot of work to do but at least we are trying. Whites, needing to continue their delicate “house of cards”, will NEVER become introspective.

    Why?

    Because if they do, what they see in the mirror would destroy them.

    Please stop wasting time with a lost cause. Focus on yourselves. We are the ones God put here first for a reason. And when all is said and done, we’ll be here last.


  130. I have an African American name, in the sense that my African American mother made it up. I doesn’t have any meaning in any African language, but it does closely resemble Indian and Nepali names. I write my full name on my resume as I would not want to work any place that would discriminate based on my race. Also, it seems pretty ridiculous to attempt to hide my race on my resume when eventually I will have to show up in person and won’t be able to “pass” any longer.

    Why waste valuable job hunting time showing up black to interview for a bunch of racists?

    I’ve never had a hard time finding a programming job, though, so I won’t knock anyone who has obscured their name on a resume…desperate times call for desperate measures.


  131. now that I think about it maybe the fact that it resembles Indian and Nepali names is beneficial in the IT world.


  132. The sickening irony that underlies this talk about blacks having names acceptable to white people is that it was white people who stripped blacks of their African names and so much else to make them SERVICEABLE for white people. As if whites think they are the centre of the universe or something. If that is not racist, nothing is.


  133. @ Agabond

    ^ Cosign

    @ Legion /Jorbia

    I think I do understand what both of you are saying, I’m just pointing out that there are two dimensions to this issue. Let me use a small illustration.

    It’s the mid 1960s and 17-year old Black kid in Kokomo Indiana decides to grow his hair into an Afro after seeing an article about it in Ebony Magazine. His parents are terrified that he’s going to get beat up by the White boys every day on his way to school. They think it’s stupid to get beat up just for a symbolic hair style. That is one argument being presented for one reason.

    But the only reason that the parents must make this argument is because the bullies on the way to school are being wrong, selfish, controlling, violent and immoral. The fact is that there is nothing “stupid” about wearing and Afro, it’s just SEEN as stupid because of the risk it presents based on the reactions of certain immoral people.

    So then the other side of the argument is that the kid has every right to wear an Afro, if that’s the style he likes. Its not tacky, its not stupid and it’s not fake because he’s not a real an African. He’s not being naive or arrogant or overstepping his bounds. There is NOTHING wrong with his decision. The only real problem is how certain White people will react to it.

    To me it’s the same thing with these names. There is nothing inherently wrong with them. You can’t make any serious argument that one series of phonetics strung together is superior to another. The ONLY thing wrong is that when Black people use non-Western names it is automatically seen as stupid, childish, thuggish. The fault in it is all based on other people’s immoral response to a perfectly legitimate and moral choice on the part of the parents.


  134. On The Name tangent – Mbeti is my chosen name as apposed to my given name.
    I acquired it when as a adult I learned and realized how much was deliberately stripped from us african americans and decided this aspect of us I could at lease take back.

    As the comments from the sick and deluded trolls indicate this is one of the last things they – the white/albinic population want africans or any other non-white population to do – affirm and have pride in yourself and your culture and not be subservient to them.

    And to enforce it they use the – if you don’t have or change to a northern european (where the most albinic (blonde,nordic) melanin deficient europeans live) name ,we who have stolen both land and resources will not hire you, because after our years of conquest you are now economically dependent upon us ,and our primary goal in life is to make sure you and yours are permanently dependent and subservient to us.


  135. I’m sorry you feel that way.


  136. I think you are right that some people may say things about you that are untrue and racist. I don’t like those kind of people. They are digusting and ignorant. I’m glad there aren’t many where I live. I wish you the best.


  137. Abagond said,

    The sickening irony that underlies this talk about blacks having names acceptable to white people is that it was white people who stripped blacks of their African names and so much else to make them SERVICEABLE for white people. As if whites think they are the centre of the universe or something. If that is not racist, nothing is.

    You nailed it.

    Churchs said,

    You’ve written a lot about what you think I said or what you think I meant to say. You should go back and read what I actually did say. Most of your points were addressed and refuted in my previous comments. I won’t write a novel addressing all the things you claim I said just because you couldn’t be bothered to read and understand them the first time. I will however expand on this point. You’re conflating ghetto names receiving fewer callbacks with “racism”. I’m not. As I already said, trailer park names would receive fewer callbacks, too. So a better comparison would be showing up for an interview in shorts and a tank top. Someone who does that probably won’t get called back. It’s not because of race. It’s not so much because of class, either. It’s because they’re too clueless to realize its inappropriate. People may not be responsible for the names their parents give them but they are responsible for using them on their resume. Shanaynay Latricia Jackson can easily become Shana L. Jackson. I used to do the same thing with my own resumes.

    I’m personally going by what you typed. You typed, “Lakisha and Jamal aren’t ethnic names — they’re ghetto names.” I copied and pasted that from one of your responses. You did say the same about trailer park names when you tried to argue that racism and classism are not factors.

    Here’s the deal. Employers – white employers will assume the ethnicity and race by the name alone. If your name is Dayquan or Ronesha, they will assume that you’re black, ghetto and have a criminal record or are too incompetent to work. If your name is Manuel or Rosita, they will likely assume that you’re a Latino/Latina immigrant and will probably give you low paying jobs or they will assume you’re in the country illegally and will not hire you for fear of getting in trouble with the law. But if your name is John or Amber, your chances of being hired increases because they will assume you’re white. Therefore, you can’t possibly be incompetent, lazy or shady. If you do have a criminal record, who cares? They will still likely give you a chance.

    There’s also a thing called a checklist that asks what race or ethnicity you are. Sometimes it doesn’t matter if your name is Bob or Rashawn, if you are nonwhite, your chances will probably decrease depending on who’s in charge of hiring. Assumptions will play based on racial – yes, racial – stereotypes

    And let’s not forget the dreaded checklist that asks if you have a criminal record or not. If you’re black with a criminal record you will have less of half of a chance of getting employment as opposed to a white person with a criminal record. What’s more sick is that even if your record is clean, you still have less of a chance than a white person – again – WITH a criminal record.

    To say that race or class has nothing to do with it is denial at its worse. Sometimes all it takes is a name or a check within a box beside your race. A criminal record doesn’t help either which is messed up considering how a well paying job would help a lot with keeping you from not going back to prison again.


  138. I’ll bet you aren’t telling the truth. I was.


  139. Delwin said,

    I think you are right that some people may say things about you that are untrue and racist. I don’t like those kind of people. They are digusting and ignorant. I’m glad there aren’t many where I live. I wish you the best.

    You may say that, but your comment earlier shows you have that similar way of thinking. Your first comment was filled with racial stereotypes. Plus, you may not be aware how many people have that kind of thinking. There may be many more than you realize.


  140. Delwin,

    What makes you think I wasn’t telling the truth, that is if your comment was addressed to mine?


  141. I think you make several very valid points.


  142. It wasn’t addressed to you. It was addressed to the person who made up a mythical, all oriental town which I don’t think exists. If that person would name the town I would look up the demographics to see if it’s true.


  143. @Mbeti–

    So you are trying to make a statement with your name that you acquired as an ADULT. That is your choice. That’s the same as an ADULT deciding to switch religions from the one they were raised in. Lots of adults do that. This is different from a parent giving a child a name and sending the child out to fight battles that not even the parent fought or won.

    this is one of the last things they – the white/albinic population want africans or any other non-white population to do – affirm and have pride in yourself and your culture and not be subservient to them.

    Does it occur to you that you can affirm and have pride in yourself without trying to stick it in a White person”s face. I’m sorry but to me, this is not healthy. It’s too White-focused.

    My main point is don’t use little children. Don’t use them to stick anything to Whites. There are plenty of things that adult Black American men could do to show your pride in yourselves. Here’s an idea: 250 Black men could organize in every state and could decide that they are going to pool their money and buy 5,000 acres of land in each state within the next 10 years.Just imagine that. Those 12,500 Black American men would own a quarter million acres of land in 10 years! Now that would make a lot of people sit up and take notice and command tremendous respect. It would also inspire so many Black American boys to reach higher.

    Maybe you’re saying that getting an African name is the first step.


  144. It wouldn’t be the first time in the last 70 years that I was mistaken, uninformed or completely ignorant of important truths. This blog is very informative. I have learned a lot from it and from people who post to it. So, thanks to you, brothawolf, and to everyone else for sharing your true feelings and opinions.


  145. @ Bulanik

    I’ve experienced the same type of “shame” you mention with my cousin’s son in the U.S. I’m South Indian and I did not grow up in North America, however, my nephew (my cousin’s kid) is 7 years old and neither of his U.S. citizen parents are interested in teaching him his mother tongues (the languages that his ancestors and ENTIRE family grew up speaking!). It completely boggles my mind. I feel like there is almost a sense of pride (and indulgence) in many groups of the South Asian community in the U.S. when their children can only speak English or when they speak desi languages with a strong USian accent. When I bring this up with my cousin, her answer has always been that my nephew was born in America, so he is “American” first. Which is funny because I have met several adult, U.S. born South Asians who were not taught their native language(s) as children, and eventually ended up resenting this and seeking out information on their own later in life.


  146. I think the basis for why white Americans have problems with some black names is that blacks today ARE treated as equals and fellow Americans. A black changing their surname in the 1960’s- from a former slave name given by an ancestor’s slave master- is an entirely different matter. Of course, one may name their child as they wish, but why Muslim and African names? My parents did not feel the need to name me Hans or Sven. They gave me a common America name. It is from this that American whites see such a yearning within the black community to distinctly separate yourselves when you have already been accepted into the fold decades earlier.


  147. @ kingwoodroad

    What exactly do you consider being accepted into the fold? We are still dealing with whites unjust killings of our youth. Done and upheld by ridiculous justifications such as music and their dress code.

    The ironic thing about your statement is this board is constantly bombarded with racist whites screaming get your own, yet you fear when we break away from the fold. This name dispute is similar to the fear of slaves reading and writing. You fear blacks not needing whites.


  148. @ kingswoodroad

    Skipping over the “acceptance or non-acceptance” of Black people in today’s society, Some Blacks are Muslim, so there is that reason.

    But there is a vast difference between someone who voluntarily assimilates into a society, leaving their previous culture behind, and someone who has their previous culture stripped away from them upon the threat of death and violence. In the letter case, the descendants of such victims still feel the loss of their history centuries later.

    In most cases they will never get it back. But if from time to time, some take the step of casting off those names that were once forced upon them, and take up an assumed identity closer in form to that which they have forever lost, can you blame them?


  149. @ jorbia

    I understand and agree with what you are saying but much of what you speak begins in the home. What a child is name is trivial, but the drive and desire to succeed determines everything.

    While we are not moving into progression that many would like to see there is a start with more blacks seeking education and more blacks opening businesses. Even with that blacks need to support our own and stop putting money into whites pockets if we wish to succeed.

    I do like the land idea.


  150. To Delwin D. Schwyver:

    It wasn’t addressed to you. It was addressed to the person who made up a mythical, all oriental town which I don’t think exists. If that person would name the town I would look up the demographics to see if it’s true.

    You may want to quote the original poster and cite their name (in this case Kiwi …) when you make respond to avoid confusion. Kiwi stated that he lived in a West Coast city of around 60,000 people that was 70% Asian. (not Oriental.. that’s considered offensive unless you are referring to rugs or medicine…)

    I know of three towns in California that come very close to Kiwi’s description:

    Monterey Park in LA County
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_park,_ca#Demographics

    and Cupertino (Home of Apple..) in Northern California:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupertino#Demographics

    as well as Milpitas:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpitas,_California#Demographics


  151. @ Sharina

    Nonsense.

    What of innocent whites dying at the hands of blacks? Hate crimes are ridiculous in nature. All violent crimes are hate-filled regardless of race.

    Are you actually comparing slaves learning to read and write and a modern black naming their child Chantrelle? Blacks don’t need whites and visa versa. We just are. You see things in such a jaded black and white manner it’s alarming.


  152. @ King

    I completely agree, but you know full well I speak of the average person who names their child so because it is vogue or simply because they like the way it sounds with little regard to its meaning.


  153. @kingswoodroad

    So now you want to diflect. It was you who mentioned that blacks were accepted into he fold. If we are indeed accepted the explain why 3 white terns ran over and killed an innocent black man…explain. the death of unarmed black teens.

    Yes because reading and writing and choice of name is a form of progressing and breaking away from norms.

    The rest of your post is you putting words in my mouth.


  154. Correction deflect


  155. @ Sharina

    You pick one incident and use that as a basis for institutional racism and for whites overall? There are many more than can be used as fodder for any race against another. What is the point? These are isolated acts by small-minded people. The world is not out to get you.


  156. @Sharina–

    I understand and agree with what you are saying but much of what you speak begins in the home. What a child is name is trivial, but the drive and desire to succeed determines everything.

    I agree except that when children are given “certain names” to create political statements, it causes extra problems for them. Giving these children these names and not preparing them to achieve in life is usually a lose-lose situation for the children.

    I do like the land idea.

    Yes, and that wouldn’t be hard to do if Black men would organize to do it and have the discipline to follow through. Land in some states is very cheap. I read the other day that Ted Turner owns 2 million acres of land! Just one man. This is why I don’t like this amount of White-focus. It’s not healthy. Blacks need to focus on themselves and build themselves up. If they did that, nothing would be perfect but mostly all else would fall into place.

    Btw, my fiance is White, and I’m finished with this, for tonight. lol


  157. @kingswoodroad

    Are you reading what I actually typed or are you responding to what you think I should be saying? I never mention instatutionalized racism. I don’t remember brining up racism at all, but low and behold you are making it out that I am. You quoted: when you have already been accepted into the fold decades earlier.

    I asked you what was considered accepted in the fold and gave examples of what I consider not a sign that blacks are accepted into the fold. Now you want to play ring around the rosey and avoid your flawed statement by throwing up racism and black on white crime. I asked nothing about that as I aware and it was not the point.


  158. @ Jorbia

    There is nothing wrong with dating or marrying a white man. Heck I have no issues with the white pellet I know, but that does not mean I will not advocate for he black community.


  159. Correction people. We will have to agree to disagree on the name thing. Excluding completely out of this world names though.


  160. @ Sharina

    Boy, you are a passive aggressive aren’t you?
    You mention innocent blacks being killed by whites and there is no racism inferred in your statements?


  161. It wasn’t addressed to you. It was addressed to the person who made up a mythical, all oriental town which I don’t think exists. If that person would name the town I would look up the demographics to see if it’s true.

    No surprise coming from someone who believes blacks are dangerous and criminal would also think Asians are not American. If you did your own research using Google, you could easily find my city within a couple of minutes. But of course, how could people of Asian descent possibly be Americans in a country of diverse backgrounds? It boggles the mind. Many Asians have lived in America longer than whites. Sorry to burst your bubble. By the way, we use the word “oriental” to describe furniture, rugs, and antiques, not people. But don’t worry. That doesn’t make you racist. Not in the slightest.

    This should help you start with your research, not that you cared.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._communities_with_Asian_American_majority_populations


  162. @ Legion

    Thank you for trolling in, Legion, my friend. But many of you here make blanket statements that are ripe for the picking and one needs to read between your lines from time to time. I know exactly what Sharina is saying, and not saying, in so many words.


  163. @ Delwin D Schryver

    Uncle Milton was able to narrow down the possible places where I live to three cities, one of them being the right choice. That’s because he has research skills. Why is it that you rely on stereotypes to understand other groups?


  164. @ kingswoodroad

    You know what you think I am saying because you believe you are privy to my thoughts. You also want to avoid the facts that you were wrong and thus were the one to bring up racism. Not every black person in here is racist, but you arr paranoid enough to believe so in an effort to justify your endless rants that lead nowhere. Your not the first to do it and certainly won’t be the last.


  165. RE: The data posted by Uncle Milton

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-157222

    Crazy names like Diarrheanisha and stripper names like Monique weren’t on the list but Ebony and Aisha were. The interesting thing about Ebony and Aisha is that one was among the most likely to receive callbacks and the other the least. That’s not unusual because every group had a range of callbacks. What is unusual is how wide that range is. The ratio of callbacks from highest to lowest for each group is as follows: WF 1.6, WM 2.4, BF 4.8 & BM 3.8

    If the difference were solely racial then why would Ebony be 4.8 times more likely to receive callbacks as Aisha? Other names on the list give a clue. There is a definite division between high callback names like Ebony, Latonya, Kenya and Latoya and low callback names like Aisha, Keisha, Tamika, Lakisha and Tanisha. Do you notice a pattern? Most low callback names end in -isha. If there had been another -ika I’m betting it would have been low callback too.

    The ghetto name videos I saw provide a clear indication of why -isha gets low callbacks. It’s ghetto as hell. You’ll notice there were no trailer park names. Do you honestly think Earl, Enos, Cletus, Jethro, Daisy, Erline and Mable would have gotten more callbacks than Kristen and Brad? It would be interesting to compare callback rates between ghetto and trailer park names.

    Even more interesting is the difference in black attitudes between those who say to use an initial and those who say not to. The hostility of the latter is obvious. So not only does the name signal ghetto a refusal to use an initial signals hostility. If I’m an employer then why would I want to hire someone who is hostile? Employers would do well to avoid hostile workers regardless of race or qualifications. I suspect the more hostile responses I’ve recieved are from those with ghetto names. And they tend to be the most militant on every topic.


  166. @ kingswoodroad

    It is unfortunate that you don’t grasp on too well. My tact is very simple. I take your words and question you on them. In most cases individuals will answer and clarify, which at that point I make no further effort to inquirer. I other cases the indivudal dances around the question, but you are the first to scream racism. While it is a blog about racism I don’t really focus on that as much as some would like. I believe in equality but I also believe in staying on topic to the debate at hand.


  167. @ Sharina

    That is exactly where you are wrong. I do not think there is a black racist amongst any of you. What I do think is there are many delusional and paranoid people who are convinced that most whites are still fundamentally racist. This is simply not true. The average person – black or white- could care less about what we speak of on this blog as they have better things to do with their time. This interests us, hence the reason why we comment. My “rants”, hopefully, lead to the same places as yours’ by way of expressing our ideas and thought on these matters.


  168. @ churchs

    If you are ignorant about something then you are. That was not hostility but a fact you proved in your post. That goes for anyone e that considers a name ghetto without knowing anything about them. You just want to justify it. You want to believe because a study or some peoples opinion say it is ghetto, then it is. No that is just that persons opinion.

    Heck I am sure some people think my name is ghetto, but I get regular compliments from whites and Indians with my name. The majority of individuals that share my name are white or Hispanic.

    The problem is simply people being closed minded and in your case you want to feel justified in feeling that way. If you feel that way then it is again your opinion, but opinions are like azzholes……..everybody has one.


  169. @ chuchs

    Even though I am directing this to church, I would like someone or anyone e to explain this to me.

    How can someone be hostile or ghetto because they refuse to use there middle name? So now resume have emotions? ROFL.

    Reminds me of when people were consider savages for not doing what
    Europeans considered the norm.


  170. @ Legion

    I may be off base here but the challenges are a bit different with mixed children. Loving them and strengthening them is pretty easy so far but the challenge comes with how to introduce them to their ethnic identity. Of course I gave them names from all of our culture and back ground but I always think having mixed kids and not full….then should I teach them to celebrate or participate in that?


  171. Oh and for the record. In most cases if a person has a sacked out first name then the middle name will be just as bad, so he middle name suggestion is a fail for that reason alone.


  172. Really shouldn’t feed a troll but I’m not that busy,things are going good so here goes –

    Jorbia said

    “This is different from a parent giving a child a name and sending the child out to fight battles that not even the parent fought or won.”

    so if I or other african americans decide to name our children african language sounding names or muslim names or any name we created – we’ve sending them in to “battle”!?

    And until I/we defeat and destroy you and yours militarily we must remain under your cultural and economic dominion?

    Interesting.

    “Does it occur to you that you can affirm and have pride in yourself without trying to stick it in a White person”s face. I’m sorry but to me, this is not healthy. It’s too White-focused.”

    So by the mere fact that I or other african americans choose or create names that are african or otherwise non northern european means we’ve sticking it in white people’s face?

    “My main point is don’t use little children. Don’t use them to stick anything to Whites. “

    how about if we use big giant children?

    As to inane suggestion which I need not repeat – there is good news and bad news for both of us – here goes
    fortunately for me all “white” people do not agree
    unfortunately allegedly neither do all “black” people either.

    You and unfortunately too many like you out of insecurity and inadequacy insist on forcing yourselves and your culture onto others in the pathologically deluded perception that if you force enough other to bow to your collective will you and the rest of the world will not see you for the worthless lying fools even at your height you clearly appear to be.

    Albinism sure does strange things to latest bip on the evolutionary food chain – an organism that hates itself and has almost every reason to but instead make it its primary goal to convince all others that its perfect and there is something wrong with them.

    Interesting
    and fun ,hey feeding trolls ain’t so bad after all, go figure


  173. I feel a need to chime into this delightful, conversation.

    I notice that white people, only recognize racism, when it comes from black people. They never see it, coming from their fellow white folks. They are so quick to point it out in others but never quick to point it out in themselves.

    The name issue:

    My real name is exactly what you see, “Sondis” my father named me, he is black and my mother black.

    I have always gotten questions from white,black,Latino people, regarding my name.

    I always get asked, what does it mean?, where are you from?,what is your ethnic background.

    I always say the same thing, I don’t know what it means if anything, i was born in America, I’m black and yes, both parents are black.

    Then a second shock comes, when I reveal my middle name….”Sondus” spelled the same as my first but with a “u” instead if an “i”

    My question for churchs or anyone else, is my name considered, ghetto?

    I’m sure I’ve puzzled plenty of employers with my name, that tried to guess my ethnic background, it puzzles them even further, when I have a over the phone interview and I speak proper English and grammar.

    I agree with some commenters that using ones name to determin if they are qualified for a employment, opportunity is descrimanatory and wrong.

    I also believe that giving a black child a very ethnic sounding name in a white supremacist society, would do more harm to the child, early on and later in life but that does not take away from the fact, that institutional racism is the real problem and not a name that sounds different than European names.

    Racism is what makes a black person with a ethic name, “ghetto”.

    White people are the minority on this planet, only 10% but they are the majority in America and that means they get to decide, who and what is considered ghetto, criminal and inferior.

    Just because white people says a black name is ghetto, doesn’t make it so.

    I agree with one commenter, where she says we should not bother trying to convince or change white people, it’s a waste of time, being they know they live in a unequal society and they benefit from being white in a society that caters to them, so they want things to stay the way they are, that’s why you see white people like churchs, logon to sites like these to justify their racist views and blame black and other people of color for their own plight.

    We should focus on ourselves and how to enrich our people, to become Bussiness owners, to work for ourselves and not for people that really don’t want us working along side them, anyway.

    We only get throw bones most of the time, when they hire only 1 or 2 blacks and call that equality, affirmative action is also a joke.

    white people think, affirmative action, does so much for black people but it turned out to only benefit white women.

    Affirmative action may have had some positive effect in some black individuals but not as a whole with black people in general, not enough to say it has resulted in equality in the work place among blacks and whites, which is the reason why it was signed into law in the first place.

    Affirmative action isn’t enforced by any employers, it’s just in place just to say, it’s in place, if they manage to get rid of affirmative action, there won’t be much of a change if anything in my opinion.

    Sorry for getting off topic….


  174. I also believe that giving a black child a very ethnic sounding name in a white supremacist society, would do more harm to the child, early on and later in life but that does not take away from the fact, that institutional racism is the real problem and not a name that sounds different than European names.

    Racism is what makes a black person with a ethic name, “ghetto”.

    Bravo! Well said.


  175. @ sondis

    You made a very good point and it was not off topic.

    One thing that I feel is being overlooked is the fact that a person can have their name changed if they so choose. Name a kid an ethnic name really isn’t that big of a deal when they have that option once they are older and can decide if they want to keep it or not.


  176. Delwin,

    My mistake. My blog indicted me that your response was a reply to my response. That’s why I thought it was addressed to me.

    kingswoodroad says

    I think the basis for why white Americans have problems with some black names is that blacks today ARE treated as equals and fellow Americans. A black changing their surname in the 1960′s- from a former slave name given by an ancestor’s slave master- is an entirely different matter. Of course, one may name their child as they wish, but why Muslim and African names? My parents did not feel the need to name me Hans or Sven. They gave me a common America name. It is from this that American whites see such a yearning within the black community to distinctly separate yourselves when you have already been accepted into the fold decades earlier.

    I will say that things are better today than they were in prior to the 1970’s, more or less. Still, there are still many whites who don’t see us as people. They see us as black people, a lifeform totally different from “regular” people. “Regular” being the code word for ‘white’.

    Why should it matter to you if black people name their children whatever name they want? Don’t they have the same freedom to name their child just like anyone else? It seems like you’re implying that American names are ‘normal’ names.

    White Americans as a whole have yet to fully accept Black Americans because just like some like to complain that we can’t or won’t get over the past, they can’t seem to realize that they are trapped in the past themselves. They can’t get over their supremacy myths and lies, their false biological ideals, and their overall fake history. Like I said in another post, most white people have a problem with POC. Their reasons vary, but they all point to race.

    Many of us know that it’s white people who want to separate from us. Yet, at the same time, they are obsessed with us. They want to use us. And if we don’t comply, some will resort to destroy us. They tell us to work hard, and when we do, it’s a problem. We need to face the fact that White Americans have a problem with us. Like it or not.


  177. Churchs,

    If the difference were solely racial then why would Ebony be 4.8 times more likely to receive callbacks as Aisha? Other names on the list give a clue. There is a definite division between high callback names like Ebony, Latonya, Kenya and Latoya and low callback names like Aisha, Keisha, Tamika, Lakisha and Tanisha. Do you notice a pattern? Most low callback names end in -isha. If there had been another -ika I’m betting it would have been low callback too.

    The ghetto name videos I saw provide a clear indication of why -isha gets low callbacks. It’s ghetto as hell. You’ll notice there were no trailer park names. Do you honestly think Earl, Enos, Cletus, Jethro, Daisy, Erline and Mable would have gotten more callbacks than Kristen and Brad? It would be interesting to compare callback rates between ghetto and trailer park names.

    Even more interesting is the difference in black attitudes between those who say to use an initial and those who say not to. The hostility of the latter is obvious. So not only does the name signal ghetto a refusal to use an initial signals hostility. If I’m an employer then why would I want to hire someone who is hostile? Employers would do well to avoid hostile workers regardless of race or qualifications. I suspect the more hostile responses I’ve recieved are from those with ghetto names. And they tend to be the most militant on every topic.

    You ignored my response to you. I indicated that race and class are both part of the situation even if names don’t matter. I explained it plain and simple.

    This is what I’m seeing, yet again: It’s all in the name and nothing else, and it’s the fault of black people and not the employers. And initials are a factor when it comes to hostility, also mostly the fault of black people. Let’s not forget it’s also the fault of poor white people who are seemingly always from the trailer park with names like Earl or Cletus.

    Am I the only one who sees the hilarity in this argument, not to mention that this sounds like another broken record argument? It’s the black people’s fault.

    Bottom line Churchs, if you suspect that the more hostile responses are from those with “ghetto” names, then it’s no wonder so many people from the ghetto are under or unemployed. It’s part of the problem.


  178. Sondis,

    Excellent response.


  179. @king – well said
    I’m trying so hard not just tell white trolls to just go and f–k themselves
    all this talk and they still refuse to see – I’m out….


  180. I looked it up and you are quite right that the current preferred term is Asian. Thanks. I checked out the link you provided and there are no towns shown with an Asian population percentage comparable to the white percentage population in Watertown, South Dakota. At least wiki doesn’t think so.


  181. There are no towns that I can find which have as high a percentage of Asian people as the percentage of white people in my town of Watertown, South Dakota. Not even close. Check Wiki.


  182. You see things in such a jaded black and white manner it’s alarming.

    The only thing ‘alarming’ is your obtuseness.

    I think the basis for why white Americans have problems with some black names is that blacks today ARE treated as equals and fellow Americans.

    What planet were you born on? It sure wasn’t Earth. I want to name my future son Beelzebub, and what of it? His peeps can call him Beelsy . Beelzebub is a biblical name! I always thought white Americans had problems with hemorrhoids and as that is the majority of their commercials on t.v..

    My parents did not feel the need to name me Hans or Sven.

    Interesting, even whites are forced to give their kids boring, generic names instead of ones denoting their ethnic heritage. What did they call you Bob Billy? That would be real ‘Merican.

    The world is not out to get you.

    No, but all those violent blacks are out to get you!!!!

    Seriously, you and that Church’s fried chicken clown need to call it a day with your tomfoolery.


  183. @Sondis; I Like what you said speak truth to power my brother.


  184. Sondis’s comments was pretty much a summary of the post. I don’t think you went off topic. I don’t like to generalize but I think some whites not all but some are unable to reflect. When black people point the racism and bigotry then some get offended and try to turn it back around and say the black people are the racist instead of doing inner reflections to see if these things are really true. That is the problem when people don’t want to examine their own hearts and minds to see the real man in the mirror.


  185. There are no towns that I can find which have as high a percentage of Asian people as the percentage of white people in my town of Watertown, South Dakota. Not even close. Check Wiki.

    I know. I never said there was. By that, you were probably implying that Asians are more welcoming of whites in their communities than whites are welcoming of blacks in their communities. This is nothing new.


  186. King,mary burrell,Mbeti,brothawolf,sharina and the author abagond

    Thank you my strong brothas and sistas! ^_^

    BTW, I like my name and i am proud of it….


  187. Exactly what is the definition of ghetto?


  188. @Mary burrel:

    Exactly what is the definition of ghetto?

    This is what Wikipedia says the definition of “Ghetto” means.

    A ghetto is a part of a city in which members of a minority group live, especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.[1] The term was originally used in Venice to describe the part of a city to which Jews were restricted. ^_^


  189. @sharina:

    “How can someone be hostile or ghetto because they refuse to use there middle name? So now resume have emotions? ROFL.

    Reminds me of when people were consider savages for not doing what
    Europeans considered the norm.”

    Carelians did not historically give their children a middle name even in 1930’s and they were white europeans BUT nobody knows that and that is why the upset americans do not call them “ghetto”. :-D


  190. Sam,

    I think Churchs is upset that there are blacks who don’t conform to American standards, like you said. This is why he’s waging his finger at poor black communities and not at the companies who ultimately make the decisions.


  191. @ sam

    No one said not having a middle name was ghetto.

    +

    @ Sondis My question for churchs or anyone else, is my name considered, ghetto?

    Sondis doesn’t sound ghetto to me. It sounds cool. I’d definitely use it on a resume. But the double name is unusual. It’s not bad. I’ve just never seen that.

    +

    @ brothawolf You ignored my response to you.

    You think I’m wrong. *shrugs*

    This is why he’s waging his finger at poor black communities and not at the companies who ultimately make the decisions.

    That’s a very interesting question that goes well beyond race. I personally think economics should be voluntary. If you don’t want to sell then you shouldn’t have to. If you don’t want to buy then you shouldn’t have to. If you don’t want to work for someone then you shouldn’t have to. And if you don’t want to hire someone then you shouldn’t have to. That seems fair to me.

    I have a rhetorical question. Don’t answer. Just think about it.

    Does every disparity have to be the result of discrimination?


  192. @ brothawolf

    First, you addressed a comment to me and I didn’t see any point in responding. Then you wrote another comment saying I ignored you. And now you’ve written a third comment to someone else about me. Is there something I can help you with?


  193. @kingswoodroad

    Unfortunately for you I am not paranoid. I just call it like I see it. And you are avoiding yet again your original statement. I am guessing you do not want to discuss your mistake in words??


  194. @ churchs

    I want to first say you are an un trusty worthy debater because you say one thing and change it to another. You piggy back from one stance to he next to avoid being wrong. I am against statistics and someone in here said to me…it is not so much the statistics that are the problem as it is he individual that misuses them to justify there racist mindset. I watch you take studies to conclude on thing and ignore that it harbored a form of discrimination. Many of the names you mentioned are ethnic yet you concluded they were ghetto. But oh how quick you swing from Sondis balls when he asked you was his name ghetto. Here is a link to actually ghetto names….. http://www.2babynames.com/ghetto-names.shtml

    Had you done proper research you would know this instead of pushing the ideas that what you think is ghetto must be a fact that it is ghetto. You are messy and that is why no one takes you seriously in here.

    @ Everyone

    How many ghetto names are actually real names or names preconceived to be ghetto and does not really exist?


  195. Another thing. Names like Bubba and Billy Bob are county names and do boy signify the individual lives in a trailer park. A swear a mind is a terrible thing to waste.


  196. Correction country, do not


  197. I have a rhetorical question. Don’t answer. Just think about it.

    Does every disparity have to be the result of discrimination?

    Here’s a rhetorical answer to that question. Don’t respond to it. Just think about it

    Can a disparity arise without some form of discrimination being present?


  198. A ghetto is a part of a city in which members of a minority group live, especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.[1] The term was originally used in Venice to describe the part of a city to which Jews were restricted. ^_^

    @Sondis and Mary,

    Which is why “ghetto” IMOH isn’t necessarily a bad thing. To illustrate, when i think of ghetto–the show Good Times comes to mind. The family lived in a “ghetto” yet had very wholesome values…

    Usually the term “ghetto” nowadays is thrown out to shame Black. Latino or Hispanic groups living at or below the poverty “line” to make them less than or not equal to…


  199. Sorry for all the typos


  200. @Sharina–

    How many ghetto names are actually real names or names preconceived to be ghetto and does not really exist?

    Perception usually becomes reality.

    The bottom line about this whole name thing is that it’s anti their advancement for Black Americans to deliberately make themselves targets if it’s true as some here obviously believe that they are seriously out-gunned by institutional racism.


  201. This whole name thing is a good example of several things about American racism against blacks:

    1. The asymmetry of racism, how racism comes down to POWER. No white person is concerned with naming their children so as to please blacks. Why is that? No one is scolding them or shaming them or blaming them for their boring, unimaginative names. Anne. Jill. Emily. Uh, right. If you are white you can never be “too white”. But a black person can be “too black” (what “ghetto” is code for). ‘Cause “white is right”. Why is that? POWER.

    2. Blaming the victim. It is the fault of black parents, yet again, not the white racists who run the country. Just like how unemployment is blamed on Mexicans, not vulture capitalists like Romney. Wow.

    3. How white people have hard time dealing with “difference” in people. I do not know if I should laugh or cry. We “have already been accepted into the fold decades earlier” – but cannot use African or Muslim names. Why is that?

    4. How blacks let themselves be culturally colonized by whites.

    5. The “Just Be American” fallacy. The idea that assimilation protects you from racism.

    6. Whites will always find a reason to look down on blacks no matter what.

    No.

    Matter.

    What.

    Tyrone is an Irish name, for goodness sake. Leroy is French. Whites eat just as much watermelon as blacks. Etc. It works like this: 1. Racist axiom: Blacks are screwed up. 2. Therefore anything blacks like or do is screwed up – UNLESS some white person – Elvis Presley, Eric Clapton, Angelina Jolie, Caroline Kennedy – gives it their good ol’ White Seal of Approval. Jazz was once “too ghetto”. Even middle-class blacks would have nothing to do with it. But now the very same music is played on SWPL Radio (NPR). Why the change? Hint: See #1.


  202. @ Jorbia

    “…Perception usually becomes reality….”

    This is exactly what has happened to you. Your perception of what you consider advancement to be for Black Americans has become your reality!

    Material advancement, unfortunately, is the only reality you perceive as real. However, the cornerstone of all Western societies, including the US is built on this value, this exclusive premise. but just look at what it is doing, and has done to its people. Particularly African-Americans.

    A name personally chosen to reflect to the world the being of who you are could never be against your personal growth and advancement. Unless, of course it was chosen to prevent this. Like the slave name in the “ROOTS” series – “Toby” given to “Kunta Kinte”.


  203. Maybe I should change my name to “Toby”. To make white readers feel more at home. “Abagond” is probably “too ghetto”, “too hostile”. After all, it is completely made up and means absolutely nothing – but ME.


  204. @ Legion

    “Abagond, precisely the same thing can be said about the Christian religion, yet, you are a committed Catholic. I think the situation is even worse in the case of religion.”

    Not sure what you mean by that.


  205. @Kwamla–

    @ Jorbia

    “…Perception usually becomes reality….”

    This is exactly what has happened to you. Your perception of what you consider advancement to be for Black Americans has become your reality!

    Kwamla, you’re making assumptions and reaching at straws about me because you have to do that in order to try to minimize my views. Why do my views bother you so much?

    Material advancement, unfortunately, is the only reality you perceive as real.

    But you don’t know this about me, and I know you don’t know it because this is not true about me. You’re presenting your misinterpretations of my views so that you can construct a position to oppose what you think I’m saying. You’re reaching here because my views have disturbed something inside you.

    Here is what I do believe which is from what Dr King said and I paraphrase: love without power is sentiment and anemic.

    If you want everybody to join hands and sing Kumbaya, then you go and do it. I don’t believe that anyone can just “wish” things away by saying that they’re bad, bad, bad. You have to have some “power”. Power, in itself, is not bad; it’s how people use it that makes it bad. This is why I believe that the Indians in India and some other nations want a nuclear weapon. They want it so that they can pursue their advancement without aggressors far and near bothering them.

    A name personally chosen to reflect to the world the being of who you are could never be against your personal growth and advancement. Unless, of course it was chosen to prevent this. Like the slave name in the “ROOTS” series – “Toby” given to “Kunta Kinte”.

    But for everything you do, there is a consequence! Or “for every action, there is a reaction”. I’m not saying there SHOULD be a bad reaction or that the reaction that comes “should” come, but there will be a reaction. You can’t do anything and then simply wish or pray away the consequences. Face it.


  206. Maybe I should change my name to “Toby”. To make white readers feel more at home. “Abagond” is probably “too ghetto”, “too hostile”. After all, it is completely made up and means absolutely nothing – but ME.

    Great point Abagond….Its amazing how this blatant example on this very blog everyone is commenting on somehow appears to have escaped everyone!


  207. I think you also have to consider that “protecting children” must be seen as both a short term, and long term issue. Sure, if you conform to societal norms (on anything) you will reduce the friction that the child may experience. But by doing so, you will never change the world that the child has to grow up and live in.

    Case in point. when I was in university, Black women were warned not to wear their hair in braids, if they expected to work in a corporate invironment. Natural hair was also discouraged. Both were seen as “unprofessional.” Yet today, nobody bats an eyelash at braids in the office. Why? Because somebody stood up against the norm and endured the temporary friction in order that a wrong could be righted. Sometimes POWER is about who is willing to act.


  208. @ Jorbia,

    You obviously don’t appreciate or understand this but much of what we say about ourselves reveals our most strongly held inner beliefs. This is why no matter how cleverly some white posters on this blog may try to disguise their views. If they hold strongly racist beliefs. Those beliefs will always shine eventually through.

    You have commented extensively enough on this blog to allow me to determine at least some of those beliefs. I am not attempting to minimize your views – you do this all too clearly yourself in your responses – but what I am doing is exposing them to yourself and everyone else here. Its up to you whether you choose to accept my interpretations or not. I could be wrong but when you present opinions like:

    “…The bottom line about this whole name thing is that it’s anti their advancement for Black Americans to deliberately make themselves targets if it’s true as some here obviously believe that they are seriously out-gunned by institutional racism….”

    Then it is clear to me you don’t place as much value in holding a unique and personally reflective name of your being than you do on gaining or acquiring economic material advancement. I am not judging you for holding that view by labeling you bad or wrong (again you do this by own self judgements)

    What I am doing is challenging those views or hidden beliefs you express by offering alternatives for the same goals of advancement you set. Its like the white posters here proudly proclaiming their non-racist views. After a while we feel the need to challenge this. Misconceived views on the nature and impact of racism are no exception whether they are held by Black or white alike. So Yes! I guess you could say these types of views in a global climate of gross denial and willful ignorance about racism do trouble me.

    “…Here is what I do believe which is from what Dr King said and I paraphrase: love without power is sentiment and anemic…

    Well…I don’t know the context in which this was said but my own definition of Love has power as an integral part of it. Love without power is not love. Its something else. So my own would be:

    “…the greatest power with the lightest touch…”

    There is more power in some of the smallest, which some might label as, obscure or meaningless things. Like a name for example! More often than not its these small seemingly obscure things which get overlooked simply because their true value or worth was never fully understood or appreciated in the first place. Having a true and reflective identity is VERY important particularly for any child growing up in a global racist system. Otherwise, any considered economic, material, advancement or achievement eventually becomes worthless. It becomes separated, apart because it doesn’t belong to anyone other than the individual achieving it.

    So who does it advance? No one! Not even the individual. Because the individual is still part of (whether they wish to believe it or not) a collective group of people.

    In all your expressed views Jorbia this collective group identification is no where to be seen (Apart from those of your closet family of course). In fact it excludes this. Now if I am misrepresenting you here then please feel free to correct me.

    “…But for everything you do, there is a consequence! Or “for every action, there is a reaction”. I’m not saying there SHOULD be a bad reaction or that the reaction that comes “should” come, but there will be a reaction. You can’t do anything and then simply wish or pray away the consequences. Face it…”

    Or as I would say: You can ignore the reality of racism but you cant’ ignore the consequences of ignoring the reality of racism. At least we agree on somethings then!


  209. It’s just my humble opinion, to make white America comfortable black americans have to acquiesce.If we want to get ahead it seems we have to go along to get along and that’s seems unbalanced. White America doesn’t care if we are comfortable. That’s why Black Americans and Africans need form a united front and build their own businesses. That way black americans and all people of African descent won’t have to worry about answering to the so called white power structure..HOPE. Help Our People Everywhere. I saw this on another blog called Afrospear. It was very inspirational. But the key word is unity. If we as a people are not unified then this is nothing but a pipe dream.There was once a Black Wall Street that was thriving and prosperous.I pray this can happen again.


  210. @King; I thought I read somewhere that Hampton University School of Business had a policy about natural hair like cornrows and dredlocks being banned.


  211. ^ Oh no!! Not recently????


  212. @KIng; Yes go on the school’s website. This was being talked about this past summer. Check out The Root.com and Ebony.com.


  213. Wow. You’re right!


  214. I think I heard a comic doing a stand up routine about how in the work place if you relax your hair white folks relax. Again why do we have to make white America comfortable. If it’s our names or the texture of our hair or the hue of our skin white America has a problem with us. Why do we have to acquiesce? This such madness.This post racial business is such horse manure. I think the painting is very telling of the racial profiling that’s happening in America.A Tale Of Two Hoodies. That artist was definitely speaking truth to power through this powerful painting. A picture does speak a thousand words indeed.


  215. @ Kwamla–

    You have commented extensively enough on this blog to allow me to determine at least some of those beliefs.

    Despite studying my comments, you are still mistaken. You’re filtering my statements through your bias and you’re biased towards me because my views “trouble” you, as you admitted.

    but what I am doing is exposing them to yourself and everyone else here.

    You’re only exposing what you think.

    Then it is clear to me you don’t place as much value in holding a unique and personally reflective name of your being than you do on gaining or acquiring economic material advancement.

    You may be referencing your own name journey. But my focus is on CHILDREN, not on what grown Black men decide to re-name themselves when they become adults, as I stated to the other Black man here who said he re-named himself. My focus is on children, NOT adults because a child has no say in what their parent named them.

    What I am doing is challenging those views or hidden beliefs you express

    So you have the ability to ascertain my hidden beliefs. Is this the ‘Salem Witch Trials?’ Really, this has become a comedy! This is all because you can’t accept that my views differ from yours.Yet you’re the one who’s pushing us all getting along and loving each other yet you’re on a mission to “expose” me, a person with different views.

    After a while we feel the need to challenge this.

    Uh oh! So, you’re in cahoots with a “we” who need to challenge me.

    Like a name for example! More often than not its these small seemingly obscure things which get overlooked simply because their true value or worth was never fully understood or appreciated in the first place. Having a true and reflective identity is VERY important particularly for any child growing up in a global racist system.

    The Black American child who has no idea what their Arabic, African, or other name means or reflects does not derive a benefit from the name and if you talk to their parents, the parent doesn’t usually know what the name means either. Yet, lots of these children struggle everyday with trying to get people to spell their names right, say their names right, get insulted when people deliberately slaughter their names or even unintentionally mispronounce their names and even sometimes get into fights because of names that sometimes have very little phonetic connection to the way they’re spelled. I’ve handled situations in which some of these names were prevalent.

    You can ignore the reality of racism

    I have never denied the reality of racism. I have pointed out that some Blacks have had different experiences and therefore some of us have a different way of proacting or reacting to it. This is what you and your “we” apparently can’t accept.


  216. 1. The asymmetry of racism, how racism comes down to POWER. No white person is concerned with naming their children so as to please blacks. Why is that? No one is scolding them or shaming them or blaming them for their boring, unimaginative names. Anne. Jill. Emily. Uh, right. If you are white you can never be “too white”. But a black person can be “too black” (what “ghetto” is code for). ‘Cause “white is right”. Why is that? POWER.

    2. Blaming the victim. It is the fault of black parents, yet again, not the white racists who run the country. Just like how unemployment is blamed on Mexicans, not vulture capitalists like Romney. Wow.

    3. How white people have hard time dealing with “difference” in people. I do not know if I should laugh or cry. We “have already been accepted into the fold decades earlier” – but cannot use African or Muslim names. Why is that?

    4. How blacks let themselves be culturally colonized by whites.

    5. The “Just Be American” fallacy. The idea that assimilation protects you from racism.

    6. Whites will always find a reason to look down on blacks no matter what.

    No.

    Matter.

    What.

    Tyrone is an Irish name, for goodness sake. Leroy is French. Whites eat just as much watermelon as blacks. Etc. It works like this: 1. Racist axiom: Blacks are screwed up. 2. Therefore anything blacks like or do is screwed up – UNLESS some white person – Elvis Presley, Eric Clapton, Angelina Jolie, Caroline Kennedy – gives it their good ol’ White Seal of Approval. Jazz was once “too ghetto”. Even middle-class blacks would have nothing to do with it. But now the very same music is played on SWPL Radio (NPR). Why the change? Hint: See #1.

    FTW! :) Thanks Abagond for making it plain.


  217. @ Jorbia

    And what happens if that perception is not reality. Then we as people push an unjust notions onto people. Living up to the idea that blacks are blacks worse enemy.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I understand you because I thought and felt the same, so I would be wrong to be judgemental, but in our history it was not until blacks started to break from whites that we achieved.

    Someone once said that blacks should break away by forming their own group name and not the name African American that the whites gave to them. This is something I agree on because as long as we continue this “conform to the norm” ideas then no one can expect black men to do more than simply appease the white man. The reason progression is slow is because of he rock the boat fear and no support from the black community in which most prominent blacks turned their back on.

    May have gone off topic. Sorry.


  218. @Sharina–

    And what happens if that perception is not reality.

    I know it’s not reaity but most people believe their perceptions. For instance, i grew up around lots of snakes, so I don’t have the same fear of them that most people have. Most people perceive all snakes as bad, but out of the thousands of kinds of snakes, only a few are actually poisonous. Most of them are perfectly harmless.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I understand you because I thought and felt the same, so I would be wrong to be judgemental, but in our history it was not until blacks started to break from whites that we achieved.

    The irony of this is that I’ve talked constantly on here about Black
    American men banding together
    to buy land or do other things by pooling their money and other resources to accrue power. It’s some of the men on here who keep acting like there’s something intrinsically wrong with Black people who pursue advancement and power.

    Someone once said that blacks should break away by forming their own group name and not the name African American that the whites gave to them.

    I could be wrong but I don’t think Whites gave Black Americans the name.”African Americans.”

    The reason progression is slow is because of he rock the boat fear and no support from the black community in which most prominent blacks turned their back on.

    At least some Black Americans must achieve on advanced levels in order to be able to rock boats in this society. An Arabic or African name does not rock a boat. If that’s the first step for some Black men, then great. All of us don’t need an African name to rock a boat. It’s silly to think that anyone is going to back off simply because you or I have an African or Arabic name.

    But some Black Americans can acquire certain degrees, skill sets, and experiences that will enable us to move with more fluidity in this society and world. If everyone stays in the ghetto, they can’t do anything much for anyone even if they want to. Can they? Black Americans must achieve. It’s ridiculous for some on here to try to point Black Americans away from achievement, advancement, and power, simply because they’re angry at Whites. That’s not only a defeatist view, it’s actually fatalistic. You’re not ever going to get prominent Blacks to co-sign that.

    Nice chatting with you, Sharina, but there’s no point in me belaboring these points.


  219. i love the picture, it speaks volumes. and i’m not normally into art.


  220. @ Jorbia

    Then it is only right that we agree to disagree.

    No one so far has stated that they felt achievement and power is wrong. They just to not see value in doing it through conformity or doing he way you think is right. Doesn’t make it wrong but different.

    Many blacks have achieved these skill sets, but still make the choice not to do it. They moved out of the ghetto as you proposed and ended up turning their back on it. Wheher a person stays in he ghetto is not the problem.

    The hunger for power becomes the problem. Most people will throw people under he bus for it and I would hope that we as black people will not abuse it as whites have.


  221. @ Mary Burrell

    I hope we find unity as well.


  222. @Sharina; Thanks for recognizing my comment. I enjoyed the discourse between you and Jorbia.


  223. @Jorbia; Thank you for giving me another perspective to think about this post.


  224. @ Mary Burrell

    I hope it was seen as a respectable exchange of ideas.


  225. @Sharina; It was. It was interesting the two different perspectives. They both made sense to me. And it was wise to just respectfully disagree. But I admire how the two of you guys debate. I love how you take on the racist trolls. I don’t have the energy to do all that back and forth. But I can see that you two are quite passionate in your opinions and ideas. It was good for me. as well as all the other commenters. I learned something from Jorbia we should want to advance and come into to having our own resources for ourselves, Not just because we are angry at white people. Trust me it was healthy discourse.


  226. I learn something from all the commenters on this blog.


  227. Churchs said,

    You think I’m wrong. *shrugs*

    No. I know you’re wrong about certain things, and I made them clear to you.

    That’s a very interesting question that goes well beyond race. I personally think economics should be voluntary. If you don’t want to sell then you shouldn’t have to. If you don’t want to buy then you shouldn’t have to. If you don’t want to work for someone then you shouldn’t have to. And if you don’t want to hire someone then you shouldn’t have to. That seems fair to me.

    That all seems fair, but it’s not that simple.

    If I owned and operated my own company, I want the person in charge of hiring new employees to find the most applicable and qualified. I want people to either know what they’re going to do, be willing to work and do the work. It shouldn’t matter who they are or what their names are.

    If the person in charge were to hire people based on names alone, and I find out that some who didn’t get the job but sound like worthy candidates, there’s a huge problem. It could hurt the company if people went by names alone to discriminate against.

    I have a rhetorical question. Don’t answer. Just think about it.

    Does every disparity have to be the result of discrimination?

    I’ll think about it while I ask you to think about this: Why wouldn’t discrimination play a major role in disparity?

    First, you addressed a comment to me and I didn’t see any point in responding. Then you wrote another comment saying I ignored you. And now you’ve written a third comment to someone else about me. Is there something I can help you with?

    No. You’ve done enough. Thanks. I’m just bewildered by your responses that boils down to names and (in a sense) victim blaming.


  228. @ Mary Burrell

    I’m with you. I learn from everyone as well, but all of this made me realize that we fail in the unity department. There is no doubt we all want to achieve but we have different ideas of how to go about it.


  229. I’m not sure that unity means everyone sharing the same viewpoint, or even the same goals. To me, unity is about being able to embrace one another even when our goals and opinions may be markedly different. IMO disunity comes from the relentless battle to have one’s own viewpoint be seen as THE absolute standard for everyone else’s beliefs and the attempts to make opposing viewpoints seem dangerous, disloyal, or unintelligent.


  230. @ brothawolf

    If I owned and operated my own company, I want the person in charge of hiring new employees to find the most applicable and qualified.

    Most people would do the same because hiring the best people at the best salary is the way to make money and stay in business. What makes you think people aren’t doing that?

    Why wouldn’t discrimination play a major role in disparity?

    Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. There’s no way to know without examining the evidence.

    I’m just bewildered by your responses that boils down to names and (in a sense) victim blaming.

    The evidence doesn’t support that.


  231. Most people would do the same because hiring the best people at the best salary is the way to make money and stay in business. What makes you think people aren’t doing that?

    I explained it to you. You’ve partially explained it. I’ll sup it up in a few words: racism, classism, nepotism and who you know.

    Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. There’s no way to know without examining the evidence.

    But the evidence is there as plain as day. Those who still disagree are in extreme denial of reality.

    The evidence doesn’t support that.

    On Sun 20 Jan 2013 at 20:40:28: Lakisha and Jamal aren’t ethnic names — they’re ghetto names. I suspect trailer park names like Bubba and Jim Bob would get fewer call-backs, too. Those names are fine if you’re applying to Walmart or McDonald’s. But if you’re applying to a law firm then putting them on your resume says you’re clueless. Having a ghetto name doesn’t hurt you. Being dumb enough to put it on your resume does. If you’ve got a ghetto name then use your middle name or initials. I have a very ethnic name and I use my initials.

    On Sun 20 Jan 2013 at 23:07:31: Blacks in America don’t traditionally use Arabic / muslim names. That didn’t start until the 1960′s when the Nation of Islam gained popularity in the ghetto. Muhammed Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabar and others adopted muslim names as part of an anti white ideology. That’s when a divergence took place among blacks between those using common western names and those using ghetto names. I’m not saying that blacks should only use western names. And I’m not saying that Arabic / moslem names are necessarily “ghetto”. But when someone from the ghetto uses them they are. At this point, ghetto names have gone way past Lakisha and Jamal. Just as often, ghetto names are made up words with ridiculous spellings. And, yes, I think celebrities who give their kids ridiculous names are idiots, too. That’s my opinion. You obviously have a different one. You’re entitled to your own opinion but your not entitled to your own facts.

    On Mon 21 Jan 2013 at 08:01:28: Someone who does that probably won’t get called back. It’s not because of race. It’s not so much because of class, either. It’s because they’re too clueless to realize its inappropriate. People may not be responsible for the names their parents give them but they are responsible for using them on their resume. Shanaynay Latricia Jackson can easily become Shana L. Jackson. I used to do the same thing with my own resumes.


  232. I will say this and then I will end in regards to name. King I believe you mentioned this one. People name their kids what they like. Not because they are sticking it to the white man. My sister-in-law and I both chose names that were multicultural for our kids because we come from multicultural families. Even if you choose a name because it will help you out in white society, then you are still choosing with white’s in mind.

    People can call it a Trojan horse as legion mentioned but it is still a matter of conforming to what whites want you to be. Call me selfish because my advancement and achievements focus on my family and not blacks as a whole, but I do go to ghettos and give my business to POC usiness owners instead of white business owners. That is the way I help support the black community.

    News media had me convinced the ghetto was dangerous and I grew up on the ghetto. It was not until I started going back down there to visit my aunt (who by he way lives in a nice house) that I started to really explore the gem of a neihborhood. The food is amazing, the people are friendly, and you wont get shot or robbed any more so than you would anywhere else. Even whites have been doing more and more business in this neighborhood. I was shocked to find one of my good white friends goes down there all the time because things are cheaper.

    Anyway just my thoughts.


  233. This whole “ethic names” on a resume is really not an valid argument, what it really comes down to is this, actually hiring a black person or other minorities, during a face to face interview.

    I have never heard of an employer’s hiring manager, ever offer a person a position at a company, without having a face to face, interview.

    They need to meet the person they are considering for a position, to get a feel for ones, personality.

    So names be damned, if a black person or other minority has a none-ethic name and speaks, perfect English with proper grammar over a phone interview, there is no way to tell if that person is a minority.

    When the person arrives for the face to face interview, then is when some white people choose, to use their racist stereotypes to determine if the black person, staring them in the face is qualified for the position, he or she is applying for.

    When and if you get a job interview, doesn’t mean you will get a job offer, this is where most blacks get stopped in their tracks, not over a telephone interview or a name on a resume, because the majority of black people, CAN SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH, during a telephone interview or in person, thus there would be no way to guess, ones racial background.

    I also think that its a mandatory thing, that employers have to interview a certain amount of minorities, hence why you always need to check your race, when applying for a job, so they can say they have had minorities come in to apply but always say they weren’t, qualified.

    So, what we are left with is still the same cause of high unemployment, among black people and other minorities in America, RACIST WHITE PEOPLE, NOT BLACK PEOPLE NAMING THEIR CHILDREN, ETHNIC NAMES!

    So what say you, people? I need your feedback…. ^_^


  234. [...] is – or was a discussion on Abagond’s blog about American racism against blacks. The topic veered into subject regarding finding employment and names. One commenter brought up how [...]


  235. Reblogged this on dennisrhidalgo and commented:
    Brave and articulate.


  236. What I learned from this whole discussion is that among all the isms in society. There is a lot of not only racism but classism and elitism. When Barack Obama first came on the scene I heard commentary from white people saying that they didn’t like him and they knew nothing about him except his name was Barack Hussein Obama. This sent them into vile name calling. Refering to him as Osama. This let me know how even with his Ivy League education white people still judged him. It doesn’t matter how accomplished one is. The same thing can be applied to some one raised in a urban environment but went on to become better educated they still judge them.


  237. I’m sure Beyonce and Oprah got judged and scrutinized because of their names.


  238. @ Sondis and Mary

    I think whites want us to put on the horse and pony show but are not really looking to much else from us. I have ran across some blog where racist whites refer to accomplished blacks as upety n***ers. They are having a heart attack knowing blacks can speak proper English and are accomplishing. I am not sure any blacks at all would be hired had it not been for affirmative action, but I could be wrong.

    I feel they like the idea of us relying on them. They may feel we are grateful or will be.


  239. And the young actress who did a superb job in Beast of The Southern Wild. I have read some hateful comments from commenters on entertainment blogs. Young Quvenzhane’ Wallis. But the young lady has her own website explaining what her name means. A rose by any other name will it smell as sweet.


  240. @ brotherwolf

    But the evidence is there as plain as day. Those who still disagree are in extreme denial of reality.

    Yes, the evidence is plain as day. Since you’ve chosen to quote my opinions while ignoring that evidence I’ll repeat it so you know it hasn’t changed.

    The University of Chicago name study shows distinctive black names receive some of the most callbacks as well as some of the least. Therefore, race can’t be the cause.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-157294

    Another study by the University of Chicago shows no loss of earnings regardless of how many callbacks one receives. So everyone ends up making what they should regardless of their name.

    http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/FryerLevitt2004.pdf

    Furthermore, studies show equally capable blacks and whites end up earning the same regardless of race. Smart blacks make the same as smart whites and dumb blacks make the same as dumb whites.

    http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e4250/R-O%27Neill.pdf
    (See ‘The Affect of Achievement on Earnings in the 1980s’, page 15)

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w5124.pdf?new_window=1

    You can choose to accept that evidence or you can reject it because it doesn’t support your preferred conclusions. Either way is fine with me.


  241. @ sharina:

    “I am not sure any blacks at all would be hired had it not been for affirmative action, but I could be wrong,”

    I would have to disagree with you there. Affirmative action hasn’t been, enforced to any relative degree, if it was enforced, black unemployment wouldn’t be higher than the national average.

    We would also see more than just one or two, black people or other person of color, in companies that pay more than $8.00 an hour. ( walmart or McDonald’s )

    I say this because, normally you only see more than two blacks at these places, that only offer, low wage jobs but even this is dwindling for blacks, being more whites are just now, feeling what blacks and other minorities have been feeling, all out lives….POVERTY! Now you see these same white people, filling the jobs that we were only allowed to have.

    This is the reason why things get worse for black people, when the economy gets real bad, black people suffer more than any other race.

    So don’t believe the hype, regarding Affirmative action, listening to white people talk about it, they would have you believe, that it gives blacks and other minorities an unfair advantage over white people, which is completely ridiculous.

    Affirmative action has benefited, white women only.

    Its been nothing short of a cruel joke far as putting black people on an even playing field as whites, being we are the last hired and first fired for trivial things.

    You can tell its a cruel joke, because they always hold us to a certain level at a job, set glass ceilings for us at every position, so we can not have any influence in hiring people that look like us.


  242. @ Sondis

    Don’t get me wrong. I don’t hold faith in affirmative action and I know full well the only real beneficiaries are white women.

    Though I do wonder how many if any blacks will be hired without it.


  243. I agree with you Sharina and Sondis,

    Affirmative action has benefited white women than any other racial and gender group. Still, it baffles me as to why many right-minded whites still think it gives minorities an unfair advantage. In the end I could only conclude that they don’t operate based on reality or fact, but by myths, lies and stereotypes.

    Here’s what I think is funny. People think that most blacks are lazy and live off welfare, but then when you do get a good job or position, they think you got there by affirmative action. It’s like you can work, but you can’t advance. WTH?


  244. Jorbia writes:

    “Black Americans must achieve. It’s ridiculous for some on here to try to point Black Americans away from achievement, advancement, and power, simply because they’re angry at Whites. That’s not only a defeatist view, it’s actually fatalistic. You’re not ever going to get prominent Blacks to co-sign that.”

    – – –

    I totally agree.


  245. @brothawolf
    Racist work by using fear and stereotypes. That way other whites feel that they are justified in there actions. Rather I say weak minded whites. Strong minded whites don’t play into this.


  246. @ brotherwolf

    But the evidence is there as plain as day. Those who still disagree are in extreme denial of reality.

    Yes, the evidence is plain as day.

    The University of Chicago name study shows distinctive black names receive some of the most callbacks as well as the least. Therefore, race can’t be the cause.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-157294

    Another study by the University of Chicago shows no loss of earnings regardless of how many callbacks one receives. Everyone ends up earning what they should regardless of their name.

    http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/FryerLevitt2004.pdf


  247. (continued)

    Furthermore, studies show equally capable blacks and whites end up earning the same regardless of race. Smart blacks earn the same as smart whites and dumb blacks earn the same as dumb whites.

    http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/courses/e4250/R-O%27Neill.pdf
    (See ‘The Affect of Achievement on Earnings in the 1980s’, page 15)

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w5124.pdf?new_window=1

    You can choose to accept the evidence or you can reject it because it doesn’t support your preferred conclusions. But don’t expect others to grab their ankles just because you don’t like it.


  248. Asians experience positive racism, wherein they are seen as good minorities who serve whites. Think of Charlie Chan. Blacks experience negative racism because they protest and have tried to improve their lot. They are seen as bad minorities. While Asians try to work harder despite the system, blacks try to change the system. In the end, whites see both minorities as children, with Asians being the good kid who obeys and blacks being the bad kid who disobeys. Whites pat Asians on the head for being good while they scold blacks for being bad and then tell blacks,”Why can’t you be more like Asians and just kiss our asses already?”


  249. @ Kiwi:

    ”Why can’t you be more like Asians and just kiss our asses already?”

    Priceless! Its funny the way its stated but its a sad reality. Asians don’t protest shit, they just take the dump of shit on the face, like a champ or should i say, chump?

    That is why, Asians can be, “honorary whites”.

    I see them on CNET for instance all the time as hosts of shows, along with all the whites of corse but i never see any black people as hosts of a show on CNET.


  250. Churchs,

    I never disagreed that names played a certain role. I did, however, disagreed with you pointing a finger at the families who made such names while ignoring other factors, including institutional racism.


  251. Churchs (continued),

    I also disagreed with you constantly referring to such names as “ghetto” and “trailer park”. Such is a racist and classist remark to make.


  252. @ brothawolf

    The problem with churchs is he puts more focus on statistics to back him up without really taking time to think about what he has said and what the counter argument has been. On top of that in his effort to thwart the blacks with numbers he does not realize he is pushing the race issue more than anyone in here.

    Anne gave him some sound advice on.one of he other threads. I wish he would take it.


  253. Jorbia and I have been discussing power and I am actually curious on how others feel blacks should or could obtain this?

    If you fear power and why? I am wary of it because I don’t want the oppressed to become he oppressors. I want blacks to think threw in take power, bit be wise enough to realize the mistakes of the white supremecy society and not repeat it.

    I am also if anyone feels that personal life achievements is an achievement and advancement for the black community?


  254. @ Sondis

    As much as they praise Asians I expect to see more of them on Tv. It darn near kills me of all the Asian actors and famous Asian faces that I can’t even see one on a covergirl commercial or in some up and coming movie. I love the talk simply because they have a fair representation (somewhat).


  255. I love me some Lucy Liu and Michelle Yeoh who make very good Asian Covergirls and there many more.


  256. Okay, Power: the control over others? Are we referring to a parent? A parent is the only to have power. If someone can tell you when to eat, sleep and etc they have you become fanatical bomber.


  257. So, what we are left with is still the same cause of high unemployment, among black people and other minorities in America, RACIST WHITE PEOPLE, NOT BLACK PEOPLE NAMING THEIR CHILDREN, ETHNIC NAMES!
    So what say you, people? I need your feedback…. ^_^

    @Sondis

    I say this: The high unemployment rate among Black Americans has little to do with having a non- white “sounding” name but more to do with the fact that Black people have decided to give our talent to white owned corporations and our trillion dollar buying power to businesses in white and other communities–thus rendering us in a cycle where our businesses are failing. If we had more businesses–we’d hire each other (as everyone else does; notice Arabs and Asians who operate stores and restaurants in Black communities don’t usually hire Blacks but themselves)…

    Also, we should have invested our money in Black banks and credit unions–but then again–where are they?!!!

    FYI–(note not the additudinal FYI :-) ) but at the start of the last century, there were 64,000 Black owned grocery stores nationwide that distributed their own foods and bought from local Black farmers–now there are only 2 nationwide.

    Names aren’t the issue–it is Black business and buying power that needs to be addressed.


  258. I am wary of it because I don’t want the oppressed to become he oppressors.

    @Sharina, I can’t speak for Jorbia, but i do not necessarily see anything wrong with Blacks using the term “power” as it is usually within the context of empowering ourselves, families and communities…

    What many people get confused about is when Black people begin to organize themselves and do what is in our interest. Doing what is in our interest isn’t about going against the white, Asian or non-white Hispanic communities. It is not racist for us to buy from our businesses if we can. It is not racist for us to operate within the confines of various Black cultures. What is racist is when people try to prevent us from doing this. I do not want white people to not be who they are–i just don’t want them dominating any non-white culture. If America really embraced multiculturalism–then it would not force other people to integrate or take on the characteristics of another group if this is not what is in the best interest of that group. Multiculturalism is when people allow ALL groups of people to operate according to their own paradigms and worldview…maybe this isn’t what you are talking about? Maybe i am moving the dialogue in a different direction, lol.


  259. @phoebeprunelle–

    If we had more businesses–we’d hire each other (as everyone else does; notice Arabs and Asians who operate stores and restaurants in Black communities don’t usually hire Blacks but themselves)…

    So true! A lot of Black Americans would be hired by Black Americans if there were more lots more Black businesses. That’s how other groups got started up on the advancement scale in America. Instead Black Americans waste their time getting angry at Asians and Arabs who hire their own. Those groups are always going to hire their own first and take care of their own while too many idealistic Black Americans take on Arab names and try to join hands with other POC and sing Kumbaya. African ethnic groups in Africa do the same thing. They hire each other in their group first if they can and take care of their own first.

    Also, we should have invested our money in Black banks and credit unions–but then again–where are they?!!!

    Those banks, credit unions, and other businesses did exist. They went out of business because my parents said Black Americans preferred to take their money to Whites.


  260. If we had more businesses–we’d hire each other (as everyone else does; notice Arabs and Asians who operate stores and restaurants in Black communities don’t usually hire Blacks but themselves)

    Well, one factor there is that they’re small struggling businesses who are using cheap but loyal family labor to make a go of it.


  261. on Thu 24 Jan 2013 at 16:14:35 King of trouble

    If the company doesn’t want to hire you they aren’t going to no matter what your name is. I love my name it’s me of course, I share it with Harrison Ford and few other Harrison and I also get to but that groovy IV at the end. What I use to get from interviewers was, “wow your name sounds kind of regal why did your parents name you that?” Now usually my inner demon thinks, are you a stupid idiot there is an IV at the back of the name, which usually indicates that III, II, I preceeded it. Now at that same exact moment I know what they are really saying because I talk very proper they were shocked. I talk proper enough to get my butt kicked in my black neighbor for being an Oreo.

    I have known people named Tyrone who have done some amazing things and some of them were even white. I know quite a few girls with isha, and other names attached that were getting their masters. I am in Japan with a girl who first name ends in ika and she is damn awesome, one of the most requested teachers here. Just as I have known shiftless Johns and Jens. If a company is just hiring on names then when it sinks to the bottom of the pit, I for one will not be saying how did this happen. Infact, I think if I heard about it I would be checking my portfolio to make sure I have little to no risk from that company. After all, was it Jamal that sank Enron, or was it Rashanda that flushed Arthur Andersen down the drain. Wait, wait let me think who was it that, was it Jamika who let out toxic chemicals in Camp Lejeune. When I hear about those companies that sink people’s 401k I always think, see that is why they shouldn’t hire Milek. Names aren’t going to tell you a hell of a lot about a person.

    Kiwi, love your last comment reminds me of that American Ice Skater Michelle Kwan. Wait how could she be American she’s Asian. I quote, “I hope some American beats her!” interviewer response to a question on did they think Kwan could win a medal (Uncomfortable as hell as I was hangout with some of my Asian friends.) As my Korean American friend use to say, “Asian we are like Unicorns but smarter, and no I don’t play the piano.”

    What gets me the most is John, Mark, Luke, David aren’t even real white names they are bibicially based names that have been converted.

    “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet.”
    But not the Ghetto or African name and not the African American family. African, out of his passion for Europe, should reject his family name and vows, as Europe asks, to “deny (his) father” and instead be “new baptized” as Europe’s lover. Why so he can get a her pants because after all that job should mean more than anything else. (I should have to write it but I will take out Africa and Europe and but in Montaque and Capulat and that is a break down of the scene.)

    Last, I don’t have the strenght to go all the way back up to read who wrote it. But as a kid I had to go into some pretty white neighborhoods with my sister when I was 10 and she was 5. Now I know it was in the 80’s but we had to dodge white people who tried to run us down with cars. We ducked bottles thrown from passing cars. We had to confront grown men who were trying to kick our butts. I learn to run really fast with my sister on my back. It was not nice and it definitely didn’t feel safe. I’m not saying being in a black neighborhood was safe for me either as the moniker Oreo gave me more than my share of trouble. I am just saying that your illusion of safety is so strong you might want to make a movie about it, or like they say “May the Schwartz be with you.” Cause after you get over your cognitive dissonance you might need two aspirin.


  262. Well, one factor there is that they’re small struggling businesses who are using cheap but loyal family labor to make a go of it.

    @King,

    I’m not saying the experience will or should be perfect–it just won’t, but those businesses wouldn’t be struggling if more Black people started trusting ourselves more. This has to be cultivated. Instead of complaining or refusing to patronize a certain Black owned business because of poor customer service, talk with the manager about it. We should let these business owners know that we like the idea and what they have to offer but it wouldn’t hurt to be mindful of quality customer service…things can’t improve unless the mistakes being made are vocalized…

    A good read: Our Black Year: One Family’s Quest to Buy Black in America’s Racially Divided Economy by Maggie Anderson.

    She and her husband also appeared on CNN and PBS Newshour.


  263. @King,

    my bad; i took your comment out of context :-)


  264. “Jorbia
    So true! A lot of Black Americans would be hired by Black Americans if there were more lots more Black businesses. That’s how other groups got started up on the advancement scale in America. Instead Black Americans waste their time getting angry at Asians and Arabs who hire their own. Those groups are always going to hire their own first and take care of their own while too many idealistic Black Americans take on Arab names and try to join hands with other POC and sing Kumbaya.”

    Linda says,

    Jorbia, some of the things you’ve said is right on point–black Americans used to have their own black business’s back in the day and that’s what gave them the power to stand firm against oppression.

    There are black/brown communities who do own their own businesses and are thriving but on local scales — such as the Jamaican/Caribbean community in South Florida and New York.

    Coming from the Caribbean, I can say this: black/brown run government does not mean the struggle stops—nothing changes if the natural resources are not controlled/ owned by the black power structure but by foreign investors. More money leaves Jamaica than what stays in Jamaica.

    For black Americans, your natural assets/resources would be money/ commodities (as you pointed out) — definitely, more black-owned banks and businesses are necessary.

    America is run by it’s ability to make money from money (the Federal Reserve is King and Wallstreet is the Queen) and consumerism makes it possible for the peasants (consumers) to keep the financial monarchy strong (hence the low interest rates we’re currently enjoying)

    It makes no sense to have a black community that spends an enormous amount of money on consumer products and the doesn’t filter back to help strengthen traditional black communities through investments.

    Black owned stores is not enough– more black Americans need to be in the middle of the suppy chain or as providers of the raw materials (importing)

    Example would be having more black-dominated distribution chains. The Asians have ethnic hair stores on lock down because they control the distribution chain on weaves and other hair products that black women use.


  265. @ Phoebeprunelle

    Exactly! I wish I was as articulate as you with words.


  266. @ pheobeprunelle

    I don’t think you were off base at all. In fact you put it in a way that has better understanding for me. Thank you!


  267. @ Jorbia

    Sad thing is I was never aware of black owned banks and credit unions. Makes me wonder if I am the only one.


  268. I have 2 uncles that own there businesses and a aunt who is trying to get started. I have not encouraged her as I should but this discussion has made me realize how important it is that I should.


  269. @ Linda

    I agree.


  270. @ King:

    Well, one factor there is that they’re small struggling businesses who are using cheap but loyal family labor to make a go of it.

    When I was a kid, my uncle used to own a corner store. He made his wife, and two teenaged kids work in the store. And my cousins hated, I mean, HATED to work in the store because they worked long hours. I once asked my uncle, “How come you don’t hire someone else to work for you?” He replied in his heavy Filipino accent, “Why do I hab to go out and pay people to work por me when I already hab someone por pree? Don’t porget I’m cheap, huh?” lol! Oh, my silly uncle.


  271. @ Leigh

    Lol! Complete with the heavy Tagalog accent!!

    Lots of people do that, and if they didn’t, their stores would soon be a statistic. But because they can count on free labor (especially in the critical early years) many of them they somehow manage to make it, against the odds.


  272. @ Linda–

    Jorbia, some of the things you’ve said is right on point–black Americans used to have their own black business’s back in the day and that’s what gave them the power to stand firm against oppression.

    Exactly right. Many Black Americans also used to own large amounts of land and land ownership is something else that gives people power.

    It makes no sense to have a black community that spends an enormous amount of money on consumer products and the doesn’t filter back to help strengthen traditional black communities through investments.

    I agree! It’s no good having money if you’re just going to give it away to strengthen others and then cry about how others are treating you.

    Black owned stores is not enough– more black Americans need to be in the middle of the suppy chain or as providers of the raw materials (importing)

    Right again!

    Also, some of the jobs that Blacks will have will of course come from mainstream American society but many jobs must come from Blacks themselves. The American economy is heavily based on small businesses. For instance, my Aunt had to have the spoutings on her house re-done recently. She called a local small business to do it. When the truck came, there were 5 White guys on the truck and I could tell by the way they interacted that they were family and friends.

    Now why couldn’t a Black American man have owned this small business? He could have hired some of the ex-cons that some here say that Whites won’t hire.

    Black Americans need to focus on the in-house corrections they CAN make. It’s a cop-out to keep focusing only on what Whites are doing to Blacks without Blacks scrutinizing their in-house functioning.


  273. lol @ leigh204:

    “Why do I hab to go out and pay people to work por me when I already hab someone por pree? Don’t porget I’m cheap, huh?”

    That was funny and cute at the same time. ^_^


  274. @ rowetusi63

    When I first read your comment I thought….no not that type of power but then I realized that power can be viewed different depending on the I dividual.

    So far, and please correct me if I am wrong, women tend to want to use the current or manipulate the current power structure to favored blacks by builting the black community through businesses and land ownership. Whereas men tend to prefer to rebel against the current power structure to feel empowered.


  275. Seems to be some hate here on successful asians but not all asians from different cultures do as well.

    Some asian cultures don’t do any better than black people in the US, its not totally a racial thing.

    Its how well your culture can merge with the main one that has a lot of bearing on how well you do, that and valueing education, partly why the jews ddo so well.


  276. I didn’t really like Django to be honest, i don’t watch movies these days, not only because they suck but they aren’t, racially diverse.

    When they are diverse, the black actors are always comic relief for white people, something we are all used to seeing in the movies of the past and the present.

    Remember this?:


  277. Yo yo! You guys might wanna snap into reality at some point because here is a glimpse into the future:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0126-compton-20130126,0,977110.story

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/15/local/la-me-0115-gang-sentence-20130115

    But maybe you can guilt trip them too? Good luck guys!


  278. @ DolemiteIII

    I deleted two of your comments. Mock Ebonics is against my comment policy:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/


  279. Another non-reading moron that believes everyone in here is black. Because only blacks would dare disagree with white people.


  280. Well written article and I agree.
    We don’t live in a postracial society at all. We still have nasty racists around in this country.
    It is up to people like us and tolerant Whites, Hispanics and people of other races to get rid of racism in this country.
    Sad to say but i think it will take another one hundred years to reverse the damage that racism has done to the minds and hearts of many Americans especially Black Americans. Our country was built on racism and it is still very ingrained in our culture today.
    @Sondhis
    Well said.


  281. @ DolemiteIII:

    Yeah, that’s our goal as blacks and people of color, to make white people feel guilty.

    This is so typical of white people. They see our attempt at opening their eyes to the inequality, we as black people, face every day in this country as a attack on them.

    It always comes down to their, “white feelings” instead of the reality of our lives in America, no matter what we say to them, we can’t get them to focus on their part in racism. Instead they always point to us as the source of racism, like DolemiteIII is doing, here.

    The “guilt” that white people feel and claim, black people are causing, when we speak out against racism, has nothing to do with us, than it has to do with them, feeling they do have a unfair advantage in this country, being they are reaping the financial benefits of slavery, through inherited wealth til this day and in addition, enjoying the benefits of Racism, being white is a society that favors them in every aspect of their lives and has the opposite effect on black people and other people of color.

    Make no mistake about this, “guilt” that they are feeling, its not the same kind of guilt, that moves one to feel, empathy. Its the type of guilt, that causes them to feel, apathy.

    DolemiteIII with his mockery of Ebonics and the nick name he chose is all to often, the way white people respond to discussions about racism, against blacks from whites in America.

    They post articles of black on black or black on Latino crime as to invalidate our claims of racism, which makes no sense whatsoever, being nobody on this site, has said that there isn’t a issue with crime in the black community and not to mention, the article has absolutely nothing to do with black crime, so why post an article about it?, its not the topic of discussion.

    White people are so quick to post articles, toward black crime but never want to engage in a discussion about how and why, our community is plagued with crime, like poverty, education, health and institutional racism.

    This is a common strategy that most white people use, to derail a discussion about racism, because they don’t want to owe up to their part, being in the presents of a black person and not wanting to look us in the eye is hard enough for them, talking about racism is way too much a task for them to handle in a constructive way.

    To you my friends, i bid you a due…..


  282. Sondis,

    Right. White people can not seem to take criticism very well when the focus is on them. That’s a cleared sign that they are more fragile than they would like to believe. Dolemite III probably misconstrues me saying ‘white people’ as meaning all white people. That’s the snowball starting to roll down hill. Any criticism regarding white racism and those who support it is regarded as personal and racist attacks which are always portrayed as worse than racism against blacks or POC overall.

    I said this before, and I’ll say this again: white people have a problem with POC, and it all comes down to the core fact that POC EXISTS, that they are DIFFERENT from they are, and they are living PROOF of their people’s crimes.

    Like you said, their guilt doesn’t garner sympathy, but it causes apathy. And I believe that it’s based on the fact that they’ve virtually and collectively gotten away with their racism. To add salt to the wound, it was supported and even celebrated. White supremacy was, and is, the treasure for racism, and no one – by any means – can have it. That’s why Dolemite III and all other merry trolls come here. That’s why conservatives fight and debate the way they do. That’s why very little have changed since 1964. This society would rather fall apart than give the oppressed their just due.


  283. @sharina

    Another non-reading moron that believes everyone in here is black. Because only blacks would dare disagree with white people.

    When I pointed out white flight from my city to a white girl, she quickly got defensive and asked why Asians have few Hispanics in their communities. (The irony was that there has never been “Asian flight” in America and that Asians move to communities with good schools, usually places Hispanics can’t afford. Also, she was indirectly reinforcing my point because white flight is the cause of Hispanics living in neighborhoods with bad schools.) What put me off about her childish comeback was not that it was the Arab Trader Argument, but how she seemed so eager for Asians and Hispanics to be divided and pitted against each other. Basically, in her little mind, she was thinking, “It’s okay for me to be racist against you if I think you’re also racist against others.” It’s so petty.


  284. Thank you much, brothawolf, Kiwi, Bulanik


  285. @Sharina–

    So far, and please correct me if I am wrong, women tend to want to use the current or manipulate the current power structure to favored blacks by builting the black community through businesses and land ownership. Whereas men tend to prefer to rebel against the current power structure to feel empowered.

    I can’t speak for any other woman or man. I look at it in terms of what history has shown is more workable versus what I call Mother Theresa lines. I do love what Mother Theresa tried to do but I also know that the world is a very long way from what she advocated. So first things first.

    Let’s look at right here, right now. Since most women have to deal on a day to day basis with sexism or male domination everywhere in the world, you will find more Black women trying to “manipulate” as you say. the sexist and racial power structures to favor us as women and as Black women.


  286. @ Brothawolf & Sondis–

    their guilt doesn’t garner sympathy, but it causes apathy

    Speaking as a woman and a Black person, sincere appeals to anyone for their sympathy or empathy is a waste of energy. You might get them to empathize for a while or for as long as it’s a cool posture or for as long as they’re not losing too many privileges, but they still have the same power to become oppressors any time they want.

    That’s why conservatives fight and debate the way they do. That’s why very little have changed since 1964..

    My Dad says that some White conservatives were actually White hippies or “flower children”back during the Civil Rights movement. The hippies were usually upper class young Whites who promoted peace, equality, and love for everybody in those days. There were a lot of them. Apparently, they changed their minds as they got older and had families.

    This society would rather fall apart than give the oppressed their just due

    Let’s go for the bullseye. Many Whites believe that this society would fall apart if Blacks were allowed unobstructed power because they look at the state of Africa or “broken Africa.” I know that some of the Blacks on this board think that’s a tired dodge, but it’s the source for the low status of Blacks in the world.

    Geo-politically, Blacks in the Diaspora have no land, no commerce they control, no power. Until there is one Black-led superpower in Africa, Blacks around the world will have low status and suffer inequalities in countries led by Whites, Asians, Arabs.

    Some Black Americans can easily assimilate into White mainstream society at this point, but the masses of them cannot.

    For the sake of the masses, some Black Americans since they are the richest Blacks, need to learn how to maneuver in Africa to help to build an African nation into a super power. Aside from that, not much will change in America as long as Black Americans can be identified as Black.

    Where I disagree with most Blacks on this board is that there is no focus that I can find on here where Blacks talk about getting power as a strategy to build themselves as a group since you seem to think that Black Americans should operate as a collective. So a rhetorical question: What is the grand scheme for Black Americans to get power.


  287. Geo-politically, Blacks in the Diaspora have no land, no commerce they control, no power. Until there is one Black-led superpower in Africa, Blacks around the world will have low status and suffer inequalities in countries led by Whites, Asians, Arabs.

    *Ding,Ding, Ding, Ding!*

    You get the prize!


  288. @phoebeprunelle–

    I would call land and commerce the “obvious” strategy. The irony is that there does seem to be more Black American women than men who recognize the value of this strategy. There needs to be a critical mass of Black American MEN who can recognize and enact this strategy because women live in male dominated systems.

    For instance, if a body of Black American women were to manipulate or maneuver to control any large area of commerce or land, not a lot of Black American men would support them. A lot of Black American men would get angry and accuse the women of emasculating them as they do now when some of us Black women maneuver to move up in the corporate world.

    On the other hand, if Black men were to take charge and operationalize this strategy, most Black women would be happy and support them.That’s a privilege of being a male.


  289. @jorbia

    “Black American MEN who can recognize and enact this strategy because women live in male dominated systems”

    By the same token don’t Black men live in white dominated systems.

    I guess the difference is that we don’t need or want white support whereas to create power for the black community we need the support of the entire black community.

    So we don’t require white support but what about white obstruction. How do we deal with that? Or would it even be an issue. Would they leave us alone? I think it would be considered a loss of power if this did happen, since racists have a zero sum mindframe.

    While I am a proponent of building the black community through entrepreneurship, we still have to fend off the racists to reach a self-sustained black community. It has to be a two pronged plan: we have to leverage the rights we’ve already won and continue the fight. To continue the fight people have to be aware that we are at war and what we are up against. I think this blog serves that purpose. I totally agree with you that we are severely lacking when it comes to the first prong.


  290. @Jorbia

    For the sake of the masses, some Black Americans since they are the richest Blacks, need to learn how to maneuver in Africa to help to build an African nation into a super power. Aside from that, not much will change in America as long as Black Americans can be identified as Black.

    But that is exactly the problem. Africa was divided into 40+ small countries to make the continent easy to manage and exploit by Western powers. The main reason why China and India are potential superpowers is that neither lost too much territory and neither was too severely divided. They have their land, labor, and money usefully accumulated into one entity strong enough to ward off Neo-Imperialist forces.

    I guess the best blacks can do in America is build economic power. But even that is already hindered.


  291. @Kiwiitos
    ”I guess the best blacks can do in America is build economic power. But even that is already hindered”.
    Well said. You are right. Institutionalized racism was put in place for that reason. To hinder Blacks from building any economic power and alot of times us Black people don’t stick together and help each other.

    I am very young Black woman, almost eighteen and I was so upset reading DolemiteII’s comments because there were so vile and nasty against Blacks.

    Although I am young and naive, I have noticed many racial injustices going on in this country and I find this blog an excellent place to talk about the racial injustices and inequalities Blacks and other minorities face each and everyday.


  292. @Solesearch–

    . . . to create power for the black community we need the support of the entire black community.

    You wouldn’t need the “entire” black community. You’ll never get the entire. You’d only need a small percent to get started and make progress. It would be much better to get the consensus and commitment from a small percent than to try to get everyone. Remember that some Blacks would assimilate and remain as they are in the mainstream because all Blacks are not hurting equally.

    So we don’t require white support but what about white obstruction. How do we deal with that? Or would it even be an issue. Would they leave us alone?

    I understand what you mean, but primarily the focus should be on building people from the inside out. No one can stop anyone from building from the inside out. Land can play a role here but it doesn’t have to always be land. I mention it because a person’s vision needs to be connected to something much deeper than words. Land is earth. Land has special qualities that help to anchor, connect people, and gives them identity. Land is a primary source of strength because land is virtually indestructible. It has a sacredness in that it flows from past to present to future.

    I think it would be considered a loss of power if this did happen, since racists have a zero sum mindframe.

    I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to, but no one cares whether Black Americans build up their families, educate their children and teach them good values, make good use of their money, and take care of their communities. That’s the needed infrastructure. First things first.

    While I am a proponent of building the black community through entrepreneurship, we still have to fend off the racists to reach a self-sustained black community. It has to be a two pronged plan: we have to leverage the rights we’ve already won and continue the fight.

    Exactly. Black Americans are not taking advantage of key rights that they have won.

    To continue the fight people have to be aware that we are at war and what we are up against.

    Well, I think that using the word “war” is inflammatory and too dramatic. If you tell others that you’re at war with them, what do you think their logical reaction will be? Also, instead of focusing on others, Blacks need to focus on appreciating themselves and if they did that, they wouldn’t have many of the problems talked about here. They will have won the war.


  293. @Kiwiitos–

    But that is exactly the problem. Africa was divided into 40+ small countries to make the continent easy to manage and exploit by Western powers. The main reason why China and India are potential superpowers is that neither lost too much territory and neither was too severely divided. They have their land, labor, and money usefully accumulated into one entity strong enough to ward off Neo-Imperialist forces.

    I guess the best blacks can do in America is build economic power. But even that is already hindered.

    China and India weren’t always superpowers and historically they definitely had their problems. All of Africa wouldn’t need to be involved. After much thought and research, Black Americans could choose one country or one region, but they would first have to drop their romantic ideas about Africa.

    Yes, it would be a challenge, but where some people see problems, other people see opportunities.

    .


  294. @Sondis; Words eloquently spoken. This Dolomite character is nothing but a clown. And he comes here to mock us. To all the ignorant Dolomites of the world it’s pretty useless trying to make them reflect and see the idiots that they really are. But Brother Sondis as always you speak the truth with eloquence and conviction. I see you.


  295. @Adeen–

    I am very young Black woman, almost eighteen and I was so upset reading DolemiteII’s comments.

    I didn’t read the comments, but that’s why he made them. They know how to push the buttons of most Black Americans who get angry and then stew in the anger, paralyzed. I hope his comments also made you decide to get A’s in all of your classes this semester and one day become a heart surgeon. Who knows? You may one day be in the operating room when he’s wheeled in.


  296. @Jorbia
    Thank you. I am an honor roll student and always try to get good grades in my classes because it is so hard being a Black student where I go to school at.
    I am used to people like DolemiteII because of the small town I live, NOcala(nickname for Ocala) is full of racists and rednecks and they really show how much they dislike Blacks in NOcala.
    I really want to leave NOcala.
    So I know that many Whites feel the same way DolemiteII feels about Blacks.


  297. @Jorbia

    “I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to, but no one cares whether Black Americans build up their families, educate their children and teach them good values, make good use of their money, and take care of their communities. That’s the needed infrastructure. First things first.”

    Building a family and educating your children depends on a stable source of income. So being able to get a decent job is the first thing, which brings us back to Black entrepreneurship. And by zero sum, I’m referring to the mindset that believes that an increase in power for one group reduces the power of another group. Therefore, an increase in black power is seen as a threat to white racists.

    “Also, instead of focusing on others, Blacks need to focus on appreciating themselves and if they did that, they wouldn’t have many of the problems talked about here. They will have won the war.”

    Focusing on racism is not “focusing on others”. Racism is directed at black people. I don’t know how you expect blacks to appreciate themselves and at the same time reject their culture for white culture. To get a job, we are expected to forgo natural hairstyles and non-european names. How can I as an African American appreciate myself without respecting my culture enough to stand up for it?


  298. @Adeen–

    I am an honor roll student and always try to get good grades in my classes

    You’ve made my day!. :-)

    I really want to leave NOcala.

    Creatures like him are crawling all over the earth. They come in all colors and both genders. Never give such creatures the power to hold you back.When you do, you’ve put him on your level. You’ve got to read a lot and you will learn how to handle them, from the inside out.

    So I know that many Whites feel the same way DolemiteII feels about Blacks.

    But remember that some Whites don’t.


  299. @Adeen; Stay focused. Keep your eyes on the prize. Ihave faith in you young sister.


  300. @Jorgia
    I know some Whites don’t feel like DolemiteII but still. You are right.
    @Mary Burrell
    Thank you.

    I plan on being a journalist/author. I love to write and I will write books concerning the plight of Black people in this country and exposing today’s Rap CRap music such as Young Money, Lil Wayne phonies for who they are.

    Honestly, I am not happy about the state of Black America today

    There are some good Rap songs out today but most of it is not on the radio today but underground and i love old school Rap too.


  301. And racism against Blacks is as American as apple pie because America was founded on racism, lies and theft. Our so called Founding Fathers; George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson etc, most of them, were slave owners and owned Blacks as slaves and stole land from the Native Americans.
    They built a system where Caucasians benefited from the political and economic system of America while Blacks and other minorities didn’t.
    Thus racism is very ingrained in the mainstream culture, media and society in subtle and not so subtle ways. It takes a lot of brains to figure out that many scenarios and situations on television are racially motivated to make Blacks looks bad and Whites look good and innocent. No wonder why little Black girls pick the White doll as the ”good doll” because they see on TV that White girls are considered the best things to walk on two legs and their colorstruck families believing White is better.
    Some Whites are against racism too and I applaud them for that but I believe it is up to Caucasians to change the racist system for the better so that people of all races can benefit . After all, it is their ancestors who promoted institutionalized racism, Jim Crow laws, slavery, etc in this country to make Blacks’ lives a living hell.

    I am not against Whites, I am against racism!


  302. @ mary burrell, thank you, sista. I see you, solesearch and Jorbia.

    @ Adeen:

    we need more, young black people like you, to read blogs such as this, so you can voice your opinions and frustrations in a constructive way to people that can help guide you down a road, that we’ve already traveled.

    The majority of young black teenage boys and girls, don’t know how to come to terms with racism, it effects their young minds in a psychological way, this is why so many black people have, mental disorders but white doctors never point to racism as the cause, its always about black people just being less than human.

    This is one of the reason why, black people have become very hostile and unstable, being constantly bombarded with acts of racism, every day of your life, can cause a race of people to go insane.

    When you take any race of people, throw them together in deplorable conditions with poor education, healthcare and don’t allow them to get, decent wage paying jobs, so they can raise their family, what do you expect to come of them?

    Educating black children, when they are young is an important key to empowering us as black people, which is when we lose them, far too often.

    Black children are programmed and groomed for failure by a white supremacy society, its our duty as educated black men and women, to Reprogram, our black children.

    We need young black men and women with young blood and spunk, to lead the way for our struggle to break free of our dependency and survival on white people.


  303. @Solesearch–

    Building a family and educating your children depends on a stable source of income. So being able to get a decent job is the first thing, which brings us back to Black entrepreneurship.

    Americans don’t need the amount of money they think they need to raise a family and educate children. I’ve lived in places where this was done successfully with a mere pittance compared to what welfare families here have. It depends on what’s important to the parents. They should be able to figure this out without following what the TV says, and if Blacks are going to listen to the TV, why blame the TV?.

    I know you really won’t agree with me, but this is not a tough system to maneuver compared to most other systems in the world. The problem is that many Black Americans have not learned strategies for dealing with this system. For instance, Adeen above has gotten upset because an anonymous person insulted Blacks on this forum That insult may have come from an 8-year old kid goofing off on the internet, but he made her blood boil. That tells me that she has not been taught strategies for mentally handling idiots.

    And by zero sum, I’m referring to the mindset that believes that an increase in power for one group reduces the power of another group. Therefore, an increase in black power is seen as a threat to white racists.

    It seems to me that some of you are making this more difficult than it really is. I know there are plenty of demented people out there, but how many White s will bust a blood vessel simply because Black children come to school showing they have good values and learn what they’re supposed to learn in school.Even if Whites don’t hire those children when they graduate,many of those kids will have the discipline and ability to create moneymaking opportunities for themselves or leave for distant shores.

    I can tell that many of you are really attached to a way of thinking that is not helpful for you. My mind runs on a different track. So, I’ll take a break.


  304. @Sondhis
    Well said. I find it sad that many of my Caucasian peers don’t ever want to talk about racism or even acknowledge it. Why is that?
    Plus everyone said that I look mad all the time but I am not mad at them, I am mad at the injustices of this world whether it be racism, murder etc! This classmate tried to make me out to be an angry Black woman just because I easily get annoyed at him.
    @Jorbia
    ”That insult may have come from an 8-year old kid goofing off on the internet, but he made her blood boil. That tells me that she has not been taught strategies for mentally handling idiots”.
    No offense taken. You are right. I still have a hard time dealing with people like that.

    I find it sad most people in my age group don’t want to know their history. If I grow up to be a bitter Black woman, I guess you can blame it on this society!
    I have seen so much incidents and heard so much incidents of racism it makes my blood boil. I hate going on a rant but I really had to express my feelings on race because it makes me sad that many people find me inferior because of my race(Black) and Culture(Jamaican and African American).


  305. @ Jorbia

    “…I can tell that many of you are really attached to a way of thinking that is not helpful for you. My mind runs on a different track…”.

    Its plainly obvious to me you have no real idea how white supremacy works. In fact you are grossly in denial of it. I suspect you actually do mean well from the advice you are giving about Black entrepreneurial and self-development. If you knew anything about the history of African-Americans in America you would know this has been attempted successfully and not so successfully before. Even just freed slaves attempted to do this…

    The global power structure of white supremacy is not something you can ignore or make the claim that white people do not concern or worry themselves about Black people’s economic advancement. They do. They care enough to ensure a system remains in tact in order to prevent this.

    However, contrary to your way of thinking this does not mean nothing can or should be done by Black people. It means doing what can be done with integrity against a system that you realize is stacked against you.

    Now if you want to advocate economic advancement of African-Americans whilst retaining or holding onto their identity as Black people as African-Americans then I am all for that.

    In my view advancement without that sort of integrity is not helpful…Just my opinion of course!


  306. @Kwamla–

    I was done with this discussion but I had to address this.

    It means doing what can be done with integrity

    I’m guessing that you’re talking to me about integrity because of my comments during the African name discussion above. Just because a Black American uses an African name does not mean that person has any more integrity than one who doesn’t. There are plenty of Black Americans with African names who don’t know what the name means and don’t have any idea of their identity even if they did. Plenty of Black Americans with Anglo Saxon names know their history and have lots of pride in their heritage. Don’t let African names go to your head.

    or make the claim that white people do not concern or worry themselves about Black people’s economic advancement.

    I never said that so please don’t claim that I did. I know that groups of people are concerned about their economic competitors. Go back and carefully read what I said.

    And I’m sorry if I’ve disturbed your dismal view of life for Black Americans, My parents didn’t teach me what I couldn’t do. Quite the opposite.

    Instead of talking so much about what Black Americans “can’t” do, you need to brainwash each other into what you CAN do.


  307. @ Adeen:

    Your welcome, honey.

    By the way, my name is spelled, “Sondis” not “Sondhis” drop the h and you’re, golden. ^_^


  308. http://la-confidential-magazine.com/videos/jamie-foxx-and-kerry-washington

    I just came across this, while running a search for images of Kerry Washington, they both look great in this shoot and are having so much fun, together.

    They have so much chemistry, i wish they would become a item, being both are actually, single.

    I think they make a good, couple. ^_^


  309. Kerry Washington played opposite Jamie Foxx in the Ray Charles biopic “Ray” and opposite Forest Whitaker’s Idi Amin in the movie “The Last King of Scotland”. She is a gorgeous woman period and an excellent actress who, IMO, is left to linger on the shelf far too long for the talent she displays.


  310. Nice find, Sondis


  311. @Jorbia

    We are discussing educating black Americans in America in the American education system so how mich it costs to educate children in other countries is pretty irrelevant. My comment was about raising and educating your children which requires one to have a job. I didn’t never specified an income but obviously one needs an income comparable to the cost of living in America.

    I feel like we aren’t discussing the same things. Instead of addressing my points you just direct the conversation…elsewhere.

    It seems you have your mind pretty made up that racism isn’t a problem for African Americans or at least it’s not a problem worthy of our attention. The very nature of racism disproves that. When I point that out, you imply there is no racism, black people just aren’t working hard enough. Racism exists. There is very little need for overt racism currently most Americans have been so conditioned that subconscious racism is enough to keep the status quo.


  312. @ Legion

    “…^Gee Kwamla,

    that’s really slick. You know you can’t call her a racist, a troll, or a self hating negro, so what was left: she lacks integrity. Nice one. –NOT!!…

    This appears to be your judgement. I was simply expressing my own opinion on the nature Black economic empowerment done with or without integrity.

    Perhaps you too have a view you would like to share…Or would that be asking too much?


  313. @ Jorbia

    “…I’m guessing that you’re talking to me about integrity because of my comments during the African name discussion above…”

    No Jorbia its more than just that its about your seemingly helpful advice about Black empowerment. For example:

    “..I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to, but no one cares whether Black Americans build up their families, educate their children and teach them good values, make good use of their money, and take care of their communities. That’s the needed infrastructure. First things first..”

    “…I never said that so please don’t claim that I did. I know that groups of people are concerned about their economic competitors. Go back and carefully read what I said…”

    Did I mis-read you Jorbia in that first quote? There does seem to be a common theme running through your advice about building Black economic and social infrastructures in a vacuum.

    But what advice do you have for dealing with the global white supremacist power structure? Ignore it?


  314. This is a great discussion and definitely incites much passionate dialougue.

    I will say that personally that while I agree with Jorbia’s reasoning regarding starting from within–values and education.. To get to the scale of “world super power status” or to even have a louder, stronger economical/political voice, we HAVE TO KNOW OUR ENEMY.

    Black Wallstreet comes to mind with this…the fact any profitable black business is bought up or swallowed by a bigger white owned one and then run into the ground..is like rinse and repeat.

    We know historically that this particular race of people do not know how to stay in thier own backyards and when they venture out, they don’t play nice.
    They will be like the eye of Mordor (yeah, I went there) when watching the perpertual threat that is the rise of the sleeping giant.

    I just think that a part of the reason we (black/african) aren’t hell bent on “world domination” is the fact that on a spiritual level, it’s an ugly, destructive, disrespectful process and once obtained, the upkeep is just as bad…

    Asia tried to play with the West and what happened? DEBT, we borrowed, spent the money on fighting wars while silutanously convincing the general population to support America by CONSUMING!!!

    Same thing done by Wallstreet to other EU nations. White ppl have been changing the rules and literally CREATING and SELLING a reality that benefits themselves and their uber wealth families for a VERY LONG TIME. They have no incentive to stop doing this, imo.

    And unless the ENTIRE system goes away, it will be a fight till the death, either way.

    ~SK


  315. I’m not speaking for Jorbia, but I gather it’s more of inner reflection *Black community fixing up their own backyard -not worrying about what other’s think about *you* (proverbial you). What do you think about yourself. No one can define you, but you. Kind of thing. More like a self-help motivation spiel. (once you build the esteem inside (doesn’t matter what the outside does?) I’m not trying to start a debate, but just gathering what has been stated many times before.


  316. @Solesearch–

    We are discussing educating black Americans in America in the American education system so how mich it costs to educate children in other countries is pretty irrelevant. My comment was about raising and educating your children which requires one to have a job. I didn’t never specified an income but obviously one needs an income comparable to the cost of living in America.

    Forgive me for saying this, but you are a very conventional thinker. The “cost of living” is not a concrete thing. You can re-shape it. You mentioned something about being at “war.” Well, others have given you the rules of engagement and you’re playing by all of their rules.

    It is relevant how other people in the world educate their children. We can learn from each other. There are plenty of people in THIS country who are also dissatisfied with the education system in this country and they make sacrifices so they can home-school their children. More Black parents do this also. There are large networks of these homeschoolers set up around the country. Another alternative is that some parents send their children to public schools but also have Saturday schools where they supplement the education with in-depth academic and cultural education.

    Quality, consistent parental involvement is a key factor in a child’s success in life.

    Most Black Americans over-spend on things they don’t need like cable TV, designer clothes and athletic gear, unhealthy food, high-priced electronic items, cars, gasoline, video games and expensive video game apparatus for themselves and their children, movies, rent and so on. For instance, if you and your wife have 2 children, your children don’t each need to have their own bedroom. Many Black Americans will say they have a 2-3 bedroom apartment, and feel good about that, but that’s usually an exorbitant amount of rent. So they need to work as much as possible to pay the bills. The TV and children’s peers become a substitute for the parents.

    Since my children’s education and upbringing are far more important to me than the number of bedrooms and other pricey items we could have, I’d rather live in a 1-bedroom apartment so that my husband and I could work less and spend that time with our children during their early formative years, teaching them manners, the values “we” want them to have, and basic academic skills. My husband-to-be and I will shape our children’s thinking about the world so that they can mentally handle idiots and see it as a place where they can succeed.

    I had mentioned in another discussion that 50% of Black American males drop out of high school. That percentage goes up to 75% in large urban areas. At least 25% of them will spend years of their lives in jail. According to research, the common thread among them as well as White and other inmates is that they have a very low reading level (2nd-grade) and their fathers are not involved in their lives. This is all well-documented.

    I’m not a conventional thinker. So, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.


  317. @Kwamla–

    But what advice do you have for dealing with the global white supremacist power structure? Ignore it?

    You’ve missed most of my point. There has to be a sound infrastructure before anything else. First things first. You’re talking about dismantling a global structure when the majority of Black American men are reading at the 2nd-3rd grade level, are impulsive, can’t delay gratification, fixated on glitter, women, and sports, are .undisciplined,

    So, who exactly do you have in mind who will go up against this power structure. Black American women?

    You’re a MAN. Use that privilege to get a lot more Black Americans to listen to you, especially the men. Develop and initiate programs to build people from the inside out, build families, educate children the way you want, teach them critical values, teach them to appreciate themselves and others, teach them how to communicate with others, teach them strategies for maneuvering the world.

    I don’t believe that any Whites these days will try to come into your home to interfere with what you’re teaching your children as long as you’re not teaching children to attack other people.

    I know that’s not as exciting as getting on the internet talking about war or dismantling a global structure, but first things first.

    We’re not going to agree, and that’s alright, so good luck.


  318. Abagond, my response to Solesearch is in moderation, and then I’m done.


  319. @Legion–

    Thanks a bunch for having my back! As you said, I just drop in sometimes here. I’m dropping out again now.


  320. @Jorbia
    I have your back as well! Don’t listen to that person!
    @Sondis
    Thanks.

    We, as Blacks, have always been behind our Caucasian counterparts in everything from education to health care etc. It is time we catch up to our Caucasian counterparts in education, entreprenuership, healthcare etc. It is important that Blacks own their own businesses.


  321. @Jorbia home schooling still requires children to meet standards set by the American government and it is not cheap. Neither is saturday school. It still requires a stable source of income which brings me back to the original point of Black entrepreneurship, ensuring we have jobs in the black community. That is what you suggested and that’s what I agreed with but when I asked you about achieving this within the white supremacist structure you retreated to talking about building a person from the inside and education.

    So now what are we talking about? Black people creating their own educational system? This would have the same obstacles of creating black entrepreneurship. We pay taxes and our children should be able to get an education just as good as a white child’s. To ensure this we would have to address the institutional racism in the American school system that over targets black children for disciplinary action and that steers them into educational tracks that won’t prepare them for further education.

    Again, I’m not saying any of this is far fetched or too hard to accomplish or that it can’t be “re-shaped”. I’m saying the only way the re-shaping will be accomplished is by addressing racism.

    So you say this is conventional. I agree. It is a conventional, well-established fact. If you have some out of the box approach I’d like to hear it. I haven’t heard anything resembling that from you, yet, so I guess we are both conventional. Ignoring racism or insisting it doesn’t exist is not a new strategy. The only difference between my conventional thinking and yours is that mine has proven it works. Not as fast as we would like(not that ever could be), but it works.

    I am completely open to the idea of being able to ignore racism, but you haven’t given one example of how this could work.

    I saw this article on thegrio today: “Show Me the Numbers: Why the academic achievement gap is not rooted in black anti-intellectualism.”

    http://www.theroot.com/views/acting-white-theory-doesnt-add?wpisrc=root_lightbox


  322. @Sugarkiss

    Good to read you here again. You strike me as someone who has a lot to offer in these discussions:

    “…Black Wallstreet comes to mind with this…the fact any profitable black business is bought up or swallowed by a bigger white owned one and then run into the ground..is like rinse and repeat.

    We know historically that this particular race of people do not know how to stay in thier own backyards and when they venture out, they don’t play nice.
    They will be like the eye of Mordor (yeah, I went there) when watching the perpertual threat that is the rise of the sleeping giant…”

    This is precisely what I had in mind when I alluded to Black entrepreneurial development in America’s past. Marcus Garvey and the Universal Negro Improvement Association also comes to mind:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Negro_Improvement_Association_and_African_Communities_League

    Its has been demonstrated time and time again by white America that any attempts to develop a less than locally based economically and socially empowered Black infrastructure will be met with resistance. In the face of this it is naive and irresponsible, I think, not to have a strategy to deal with this.

    But I would applaud anyone for genuinely trying…


  323. Thanks, Kwamla!! :) I love these discussions, truly!

    I have been blessed enough to work with professionals from practically every continent on the globe living here in Houston, TX. As a nsg professional, I’ve taught and taken care of everyone from everywhere. And amongst blacks, whether it be American born on immigrants from Africa or abroad, the sentiment or recognition of the patterns of racial oppression, the slant in the media and it’s regards to why there are “rebels” abroad who want nothing to do with the West…the “World Food Bank, Central Bank” it all reeks of control and exploitation and we all understand this.

    The myth/illusion sold worldwide is that ‘our’ type of freedom must be thrust on the world. Out govt, our politics and policies and wars…BUT only if you have something we can take in return…

    To eradicate this festering behavoir seems almost impossible but I have come to the realization as an individual that I am not intersted in valuing money and things over people. You take away power by changing up what HAS power over you and your life and stop letting those in power dictate what is important. (this rigged system of stocks, bonds, 1M retirement savings, overly expensice secondary education, the idea of DEBT as a way to prosperity, etc)

    Do I recognize the system of oppression and privalege? Absolutely. I choose to function and thrive in it–teach my children how to recognize its ills and lay down values that do not regurgitate what is projected through the media and news.

    The West deal in trickery and lots of double speak. Our leaders believe and support nothing and everything all the same…and like sheeple, many follow suit.

    We know that real freedom isn’t free, right? A country hell bent on forcing this notion of freedom on others directly contracdict what it is to be free in the first place. I have no interest in ‘conquering’ that. There are so many ways humans exist in this world, can we please stop this “one size fits all” mentality? First world, third world, developed, underdeveloped…we all exist on the same planet.

    Education of self: Free
    Feeding of spirit: Free
    Oxygen/earth water: Free

    The rest is brain exercise… :)

    ~SK

    I really enjoy learning from everyone, btw.


  324. @Jorbia

    I must say I agree 100%. With your assessment of raising kids. Mainly because that has been my focal point since givinng birth. Needs have to be met first and part of that need is “quality consistent parental involvement.” Many people feel that all they have to do is provide shelter, food, clothing…yet forget that kids wont know or learn anything without guidance.

    I am skeptically on the idea of two parent home because my parents divorced. My husbands parents did as well, but we both are strong and committed in our parenting. Even so we both had committed mothers and family members, who served as great influence.


  325. @ king, brothawolf, Sondis, Legion, kwamla (sorry if I missed any males)

    Have any of you considered maybe coaching or mentoring young black males in your community? I ask because good examples go a long way and kids without a father like figure could use the time and attention individuals like you could give.


  326. @ Adeen

    We have not always been behind our white counterparts. In fact blacks do and did own businesses in the past. Do you want to know why they failed? Blacks not putting money into black businesses. Instead putting it into white business.

    Many inventions that you and I enjoy today were from black inventors and black minds. Yet so many young black kids are stuck on believing that blacks have not accomplished anything. We have, but blacks have also fallen off the map. The goal is to get back on it.


  327. @Sharina
    ”Yet so many young black kids are stuck on believing that blacks have not accomplished anything.”

    Well said. That is why there is so much self hate in my generation of young Black females and males. Our ancestors were kings and queens before we were enslaved by the Europeans. Yes, Black people did make many of the inventions we enjoy today yet never get credit for them. In fact, the ancient Egyptians were Black. Even the ancient Isrealites were Black. History can prove this as a fact too.

    I am proud of being Black and my cultures too.
    @Sondis, Brotha Wolf, Legion, etc
    I love hearing from well educated and smart Black men like you.


  328. WOW The dialogue and issues currently being discussed are so focused and to the point that I need not yet contribute – just appreciatively read.

    I Attributed it to abgond – who really knows how to get a interesting and insightful discussion going.


  329. @ Adeen

    Exactly!


  330. sharina

    Have any of you considered maybe coaching or mentoring young black males in your community? I ask because good examples go a long way and kids without a father like figure could use the time and attention individuals like you could give.

    I do actually, especially the little ones. I also mentor teens. As a side note most of them have fathers but I don’t think most of them know about what I know.

    There is this one teen who actually knows. He told me upfront that a lot of his peers are lost. Talking to him gave me some hope that not all black youth aren’t aware of the world around them.

    Adeen,

    Thanks for your comment.


  331. I also think that a lot more of our black youth know more than we give them credit for. We can’t deny that there are a lot of them who are lost, not just on the road to ruin but on the road to success as well. Some black youth may be doing exceptionally well in school, but are not aware of a lot of truths that are out there about society, their people and the history of it all. They may grow up to be more threatening than any thug on the street. Then again, they may grow up to be a true role model.


  332. @ brothawolf

    That is so refreshing to hear. I know you are a great one.


  333. *blushes* I do my best. I’m not good in sports, but I do my best with drawing.


  334. @ Bulanik
    :) so true


  335. Have any of you considered maybe coaching or mentoring young black males in your community?

    Yes, I have participated in 2 mentorship/tutoring programs and have taken on several other young people to mentor unofficially, I’m currently mentoring just one young lady.


  336. @ king

    That puts a smile on my face. Your words are empowering in here and I am glad you are not just sharing that with us.


  337. @King and Brotha Wolf
    That is good you are mentoring a young lady. It would be nice if you tutored my little brother.

    In fact, I am worried about my younger brother. He acts like a White boy in a Black boy’s body and he isn’t aware that many Caucasians, not Caucasians, see him as a criminal or threat based on the color of his skin. My brother’s grades aren’t the best and he feels everything Whites do is better than Blacks. I guess is because of the area I live in is full of Caucasians.
    I hope my brother will wake up on day and be proud of his race.


  338. @Brotha Wolf
    I am a honor roll student and I try my best to do well in school and you are right.

    I am not perfect but I feel my brother is lost to what society thinks of Blacks.


  339. @ sharina:

    Aside from mentoring my niece and nephews, i don’t have time to mentor anyone else. I would if i had the time, though.

    @ Adeen: Its not too late for your brother, he just needs guidance and needs to read about who he is as a black man.

    Looks to be, you’re on the right track to knowing who you are as a black woman, maybe you could help, point him in the right direction.

    He needs his father to give him, courage and self esteem, if his father isn’t available to him, a strong black male role model, will suffice.


  340. @ Sondis
    I would not discount that. Mentoring your niece and nephew is still tops in my book. I have 5 amazing uncles that shaped me for the best.

    @ Adeen

    I think you should introduce him to black inventions. Once he realize black efforts he may open up.


  341. Thank you guys for kind words. But I’m sure that my friend brothawolf will agree that it never feels like a sacrifice, and you truly get as much out of it as the kids do. I always used to worry because I’d want to hang on to kids and keep on guiding them… but then you realize that they take what they need and move on when they must. You have to trust that you have made a little difference in them as they come and go. To quietly touch another life is the truest form of activism.


  342. “That is good you are mentoring a young lady. It would be nice if you tutored my little brother.

    In fact, I am worried about my younger brother. He acts like a White boy in a Black boy’s body and he isn’t aware that many Caucasians, not Caucasians, see him as a criminal or threat based on the color of his skin. My brother’s grades aren’t the best and he feels everything Whites do is better than Blacks. I guess is because of the area I live in is full of Caucasians.

    Adeen, your feelings for your brother do you credit, young sister. But people come to truth in their own time, and often over many seasons of their life. Anything can begin it—a college course, a poem by Countee Cullen, Claude McKay, or Gwendolyn Brooks; a play, a movie, a book, a blog. But once the journey to recognize your own identity begins, who can say how far that stream may take you in the end?

    Nevertheless, your brother is learning some important skills even now. The truth is that you must to learn to live in BOTH worlds. You have to be able to relate to White culture, history, and thinking, if you want to be effective in this society. The trick is to center yourself to be master of your worlds, both Black and White, and they key to that is education.

    Ask yourself what would this blog be without education? Listen to Abagond, to brothawolf, to Sondis, to Mbeti, Legion and Kwamla. And listen to Sharina, Jorbia, leigh204, deepcholate and Peanut… not to mention Bulanik, who’s brain is at risk of exploding from being stuffed with too much intelligence. All of these commenters and more are most effective because they are smart, and that is a tool they have sharpened on the grindstone of perseverance.

    I foresee that you too are on that upward path Adeen, and you will help your brother to find it as well. He has time to grow and you have time to lead.


  343. One of the things mentioned earlier is white flight; thats kind of a catch-22 situation.

    On one hand; its bad to want to leave when black people come to your neighborhood but when you have no problem moving to black neighborhoods its gentrification.

    @Jorbia

    White people believe society would fall apart if power were given to black people? You mean the society that will have had a black man leading it for eight years straight? Also; wouldn’t the US count as a black-led superpower?

    So Americans should go to Africa to make a country there and tell them how to live? Sounds like typical American arrogrance, and I am one.

    Admitably I’m hardly an economist but aren’t African’s beginning to industrialize over there on their own? For that matter isn’t Africa more or less 90% middle class people living in modern cities and 10% living in hell on earth, which sucks yeah but still.

    @General posters

    I’m not sure it can really be said to be a racist “system” in the US, that implies organization, thought w/laws and rules set down, versus the generalized and random bigotry and hate being enacted on one more power populace over another.

    So to be successful is to lack integrity, does that mean that 90% of african immigrants that come to the US and are successful lack integrity then?

    @Abagond

    Wouldn’t really have to misinterpret the Bible to have slavery, biblically accurate it would have been a less brutal form but still slavery.


  344. It was the mentoring of an elderly distant cousin (a first cousin of my maternal grandmother) that made a profound difference in my own life (thank you, bless you, and rest in peace, Eloise, you have my eternal gratitude).


  345. I’m not sure it can really be said to be a racist “system” in the US, that implies organization, thought w/laws and rules set down, versus the generalized and random bigotry and hate being enacted on one more power populace over another.”

    @ V-4

    Let me first answer your statement, based on your assumption. Let’s say that the U.S. was not officially racist at all, today. But let us suppose that it’s history had been based on a blatantly racist system. Now, if today, some people still harbored racist thinking and attitudes based on this “racist past” would you not continue to call that legacy part of that racist system that was perhaps dying but not yet fully unextinguished, or would you say that it was no longer even part of the racist system?

    But of course, most of us here would not limit the definition of a “system” only to official law and codes. I think most of us would be inclined to see social codes as a far more far-reaching than mere statutes. For example, the law might say that employers cannot discriminate based solely on race or ethnicity. But in reality, it’s pretty hard to catch someone performing ethnic cleansing in the job applicant pool because the official reason given for excluding certain prospects would not be race-based. Yet, every now and then when these things are looked into

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/oct/18/racism-discrimination-employment-undercover

    http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_archive_09172003/

    we find that discrimination still persists in spite of the laws. So is this still a “system” or can we assume that because the legal codes have changed that the actual practices are no longer systematic?


  346. @ v-4

    I would like to point out that “general posters” did not mention anything about intergrity let alone hat being successful means you lack it. You may be refering to kwamla. Would help if you say his name so he can address that issue with you.


  347. V4

    “I’m not sure it can really be said to be a racist “system” in the US, that implies organization, thought w/laws and rules set down, versus the generalized and random bigotry and hate being enacted on one more power populace over another.”

    ************

    While you may not be sure, do know that many of us are aware – without any doubt – that such a SYSTEM – STILL – exists in plain view! The fact that many don’t can’t/won’t see or acknowledge the monster that systemic LEGAL racism is, suggests how successful the sheeple have been overcome by clouded, deluded, and lazy thinking!

    1. Witness the stop and frisk (not to mention driving while black) laws that are routinely visited primarily upon black and brown people. It’s like a resurgence of the Black Code era when blacks were arrested for vagrancy and then forced to work (for free) for white run businesses and corporations enjoying a very cheap labor pool – that’s happening now.

    White rural communities across America are building prisons, hiring (locals) white prison guards and reviving their community’s economy based on caging black and brown people.

    Witness the difference in sentencing regarding crack cocaine and powder cocaine. They are both the same illegal drug, yet one carries a much heavier penalty than the other. Study after study, after study show/prove whites fare much better in the criminal justice SYSTEM.

    Black children are routinely treated more harshly for misbehavior than white children for the SAME infractions. … I could go on and on about the slanted education SYSTEM.

    2. The poll tax SYSTEM that historically disenfranchised millions of black voters is still here – with Voter ID Laws. Racism/white supremacy – WHITENESS – make things that are not normal, or right, seem as if they are. …

    3. Slave catchers, today now called the Police, routinely shoot, wound and KILL UNARMED black people, and get away with it – because it’s LEGAL to shoot unarmed BLACK people if they appear in anyway threatening. In fact, they don’t even have to appear threatening – all a cop has to do is THINK they’re a threat …

    4. Toxic and other hazardous waste products are more often dumped in black & brown communities, neighborhoods than white ones.

    And so on ..

    Judging by your comment, V4, it appears that WHITE SYSTEMIC RACISM is totally non-existent – to you. I’ve only touched on a little bit of the wide, all encompassing (invisible??) SYSTEM in place to hinder black people at every turn.


  348. @ Fianna blu

    That is interesting. I guess it proves you can never be too young or too old for mentoring.


  349. Sorry fiamma blu


  350. V-4

    I’m not sure it can really be said to be a racist “system” in the US, that implies organization, thought w/laws and rules set down, versus the generalized and random bigotry and hate being enacted on one more power populace over another.

    I think Matari pretty much described it to you that there is such a system in place to make sure blacks do not advance on their own and not without the “permission” of privileged whites. To deny that such a system exist is to essentially support the system.


  351. @Sharina

    The statement is more specifically used by Kwamla but the idea and general feeling seems to be the thought of posters here aside from Jorbia.

    @King

    Thats not a system though, thats just random bigots, its just that with a much large population to pull from, even a small amount of whites being bigoted is a large problem for the black populace.

    Its more than just a law and codes, it has to be accepted by society and pushed forth which racism by and large isn’t.

    Racism; problematic as it is, is not endorsed or accepted in society, not legally or otherwise.

    Even in the south with its racism, its not cool to be openly racist for the most part.

    @Matari

    1. Stop and Frisk is not itself innately racist as a law (well, I’m guessing, haven’t actually read about it in detail) the problem is that its the police enforcing it that are hateful.

    They use their chance to harass people and take it; does it indicate a problem within society, yes because when they have the chance, the police will be just as destructive to white people if they think they can get away with it and since they aren’t here, that implies the police know they don’t have to worry about society caring about PoC.

    And considering that white people are more likely to carry both drugs and weapons, it marks their bigotry as stupid or them as being borderline sociopathic, which from what I’ve heard about cops psychological profiles wouldn’t amaze me.

    Its like with the educational system, they aren’t setting out ways to make it harder or impossible for black people to even be “recognized” as doing well, they are coming down harder on the ones who step even slightly out of line.

    And sure there is some randomness to the drug laws, why is marijuana punished so harshly and crystal meth which is pretty much a “white” drug gets some pretty harsh punishments as well.

    Do whites do better in the legal system than blacks? Yeah; I’m not denying that but at least part of that comes down to whites having money and being able to get better lawyers, or more connections with those in authority.

    2. The Voter ID laws were pretty ridiculous…..

    3. Kind of goes back to 1

    4. is another example of what I’m talking about

    There isn’t a system. The vast majority of white people aren’t actively our consciously setting up ways to take black people down, bigger business devour and spit out smaller businesses all the time, its one of the ways Romney got rich.

    Most of these don’t require a thought or organization to it, random bigotry covers them just as well.

    They don’t get together and think “hey; we’ve got to keep those black folks down”. The simple honest truth is; most of the time, white people, even racist ones don’t think about PoC at all. They have their own lives they focus on, whether that be puzzles, monster truck or some other hobby.

    I’m not saying there aren’t problems, that bias, apathy and corruption don’t create serious issues.

    Hell; even the Voter ID laws are almost incidentally racist, they weren’t made to fuck with black people as their primary goal, they were made to try and fuck over the democrats, mainly white people.

    Life for black people is a lot more fucked up than it should be but there are already laws and regulations against being racist.

    Now should there be laws or rules to regulate the police, schools, business etc…to cut down on bigotry and corruption, yes.


  352. @ v-4

    Unless you are a mind reader ….don’t try to think for others. Also you just put out a sorry excuse for being wrong. I urge you to fully read what others said and no one other than kwamla mention jorbia in regards to integrity. You took his words alone and tried to attach it to what everyone else thought. People agreed with much.of what she said, but not one person in here said it was wrong to be successful but rather hey did not agree with conforming to make whites happy.

    I am all for peoples discussions and thought but please discuss what was actually said rather than making up what you think was said based on one persons feelings.


  353. “…@General posters

    …So to be successful is to lack integrity, does that mean that 90% of african immigrants that come to the US and are successful lack integrity then?…”

    Here is an example of the type of business with some integrity I am referring to:

    Patrice Motsepe: South African Billionaire Donates Half His Fortune To Charity
    http://newsone.com/2176507/patrice-motsepe-fortune-to-charity/

    Which is not the same thing that Bill Gates or Warren Buffet have done or are doing which is questionable on another level.

    “…Bill Gate’s applauded Motsepe’s altruism, but recognition is not on the billionaire’s agenda. Motsepe said that he simply wanted those in difficult circumstances to know “we are not going to allow you to suffer alone…”


  354. @ Sharina

    On the question of mentoring….I have found we all need this at different times in life. Young, old, Back boys, girls, men and women too. While I am not opposed to taking on and fostering specific one-one relationships. I have found that my particular knowledge and skills can be best served in an advisory capacity to which ever category of person I encounter.

    To me it doesn’t matter so much how the relationship is formed – in person or online – What matters is that the advice or information I can provide is of some acknowledged benefit (directly or indirectly) AND that I at least derive some personal feeling of satisfaction from doing it.

    As I say we all need mentoring at sometimes in our lives but its up to us to choose or show when we are ready to receive this. Its then up to those of us willing to give it to be able to spot this and appropriately deliver it.

    Remembering of course that even then not everybody will want it!


  355. The costs of failing to mentor our young men grow ever higher.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/justice/illinois-teen-shot/index.html


  356. Thank you Buliank. Appreciate your comment!


  357. @ Bulanik

    I admire you. You are crazy intelligent (not in a bad way).


  358. @ kwamla

    What you said is very true.


  359. @ Legion

    Sometimes it takes someone else to see your great value. :)


  360. Bulanik writes:

    “@ Legion

    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.’

    You looked out for Jorbia, for Bulanik…”

    …and for me, Fiamma, in a more general way. I recognized it on the occasions where I saw it. I’m somewhat shy but I’m no ingrate. Thank you, Legion.


  361. sharina writes:

    “@ [Fiamma blu]

    That is interesting. I guess it proves you can never be too young or too old for mentoring.”

    – – –

    Yes, Sharina, it was just something in my cousin’s nature… not anything she seemed to put too much thought into doing.

    From the ages 10 to 17, I was shown by her, and she was 70-77 years old during that timeframe, certain potentials of life I would never have experienced in the working class environment in which I’d been reared. She not only taught / exposed me to certain things; she also financed stage shows, experiences in fine dining; trips abroad and nice clothing for me and my sister.

    I myself have tutored children, as well as adults, and have attempted to mentor a few teens in my time. Truthfully, and for whatever reason though, not all individuals are open to to being mentored ….


  362. I really wish i had been a part of this discussion, hopefully I will find one to join in the future,,, Most of what I had to say has already been said. Next time though..


  363. [...] American racism against blacks (abagond.wordpress.com) [...]


  364. on Thu 21 Feb 2013 at 21:10:57 College Student

    I’ll give you a perfect example of who some people see racism where none exists, and if you think that doesn’t cloud your judgement in EVERYTHING you do, then maybe you ought to see a shrink, cause you need help.

    the scene: a high level college class

    teacher brings in roster of students with their pictures, so he can get to know them better

    Student 1: Why are some of the pictures darker, is there something wrong with the printer?

    Student 2: [very loud voice]: CAUSE THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE ON THERE!

    later on in class

    Student 2: [yelling accross the room] Hey *insert name*, did you see Jerome bringing the BLACK to facebook today?

    This series of events tells me everything I need to know about that particular person. This is not something that is natural. It is learned.


  365. [...] American racism against blacks (abagond.wordpress.com) [...]


  366. on Sun 3 Mar 2013 at 00:27:49 Lamont Gibson

    On January 25, 2007 at approximately 12:00am I was pulled over in North Dallas and blocked by a police squad car and a police van. I had just ended my shift as a Dominos delivery driver and was still in uniform. I was immediately asked to exit my vehicle by the officer in the squad car and his very next statement was turn around put your hands behind your back your being handcuffed for safety precautions all while leading me to the back of the police van where I was put inside. Moments later I saw a wrecker coming to tow my car and there began an approximatly seven hour journey around North Dallas where these officer’s arrested several black males until the police van was full. Every black male arrested throughout this ordeal none of us new the reason why. Upon arrival at Lou Sterrett we were put in a holding tank without arraignment. Approximately 24hrs later I was in court with about 100 others. The judge there never muttered a word instead a very large muscle bound police officer began to tell everyone that this was traffic court no one was innocent an a plea of not guilty would get you locked back up which would cause you to have to bond out. After over a hundred guilty pleas including myself we were released.
    Around September 2007 I was stopped again in Highland Park for no seatbelt and made aware at that time that I was driving on a suspended license. I immediately went to Crowley Court and found out that on the night of Jan 25, 2007 several tickets were turned in on my name and car for no insurance, no registration, no inspection. I was never issued any tickets that night all lies. I requested a hearing and upon seeing a judge I was given a court date of June 2008 all most nine months later. My license stayed suspended which resulted in me losing both my jobs as a Realtor with Keller Williams and as a pizza delivery driver. A month later homeless! I lost everything! Most importantly the love of my son’s. The next five years have been spent in and out of jail for these very tickets and now child support. As of today warrants are still active for these same tickets. Through faith and instructions of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ I have survived this ordeal and able to get back on my feet. Revenge is not in me and Justice is for the Lord but my boys are owed an explanation as to why they were made to feel like their father doesn’t love them. This is my first step in an attempt to repair what has been damaged between my son’s and I. I am strong and will continue to work to pay off the over $60k debt in child support these officers have cost me. I can’t began to explain how this has hurt me and my boys and what they have had to go through while I was rendered helpless. As of today google my name and the first thing you see is mugshots of all the arrests stemming from these tickets posted by companies looking to advertise for background checks. Come on your taking advantage of those who have made mistakes and some that haven’t. Believe me there are numerous citizens locked up whom are absolutely innocent just without the support/money they need to prove their innocence. I am well on my way to wealth through this motivating process and keep your faith in God not man. Starts through giving!


  367. This is annoying to read I’m writing a research paper on discrimination and racism and my opinion is blacks need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and do something about all the problems you think there are, there are more blacks in prison because they deserve to be in there it just means they chose to do something that would put them in their and blacks are just more likely to do something to get themselves in prison. Now don’t go blaming that on whites because it’s not our fault it their own mothers and fathers, RAISE YOUR KIDS RIGHT motivate them for education teach them respect to others and respect for themselves the problems black people are having are not with white people but with their own communities! Do you think Opera was raised in a family that beat her no she had the tough life too but she made something out of it. And what of MLK he was raise in a good home and we all love him don’t we he did a lot but the other side of the coin is even though he promoted peace there where people like Malcolm X who was raise in a home with parents that didn’t treat him like they should have, beat him and his own father was racist to him, and these people became militant and promoted aggression ie: Black Power, Black Panthers, Black Muslums(not racist against islam it was a group in the 60’s). These groups created fear and destroyed just like the Klan but you didn’t seem it would do very well to mention these did you. All im trying to say is set your ignorence aside and look to fix yourselves before accusing others of being imperfect. Yes, whites held you in slavery at one point yes we seggrigated you, oh well its in the past this is now and because blacks are in the real world and recognise as equals you come to find its not as amazing as the slaves thought its still hard and people step on you but thats life and you have to deal with it. Think of it like school everybody gets bullied and blacks are no different. I’m white I’ve been beaten at school, been called names, and even tried killing myself, im not looking for sympathy or justice all i want is peace and for people to stop complaining.


  368. ^ While you’re at it, do some research on spelling, formatting and even logic. I feel sorry for whomever is going to read that preachy, self serving, bullsh*t paper.


  369. @Ayrton Trnka

    If you are even a real person. You are the reason blogs like this exist. You and ppl like you are the reason anything rational or intelligent that is said by a black person will be met with this ridiculous response. You are the reason anyone with more than 4 brain cells stay away from Yahoo and other sites.

    ~This is one of many problems with America.

    ~This is the reason the govt can develop ways to kill other black and brown ppl worldwide. Yours is the mentality of the willfully complicit.

    You should rename your paper:

    The world of discrimination as I see it by “A white person cloaked in white privilege”

    Be honest, at least.

    We don’t need any more racism peddled as research.


  370. @ Sugarkiss and Gen

    I bow to that absolutely amazing response.


  371. @ Sharina

    ty :)


  372. Do you think Opera was raised in a family that beat her no she had the tough life too but she made something out of it.

    Who the fcku is ‘Opera’?


  373. Ayrton Trnka
    What was with this giant run-on sentence of yours? It sort of meanders and just seems to exist to pointlessly have no point. I’m not sure if this is what you think a rational argument looks like, but if it is you probably should take a step back and learn how to type a sentence like a rational human being, before you let your brain pee all over the keyboard again.


  374. @ Ayrton Trnka

    Please let us know what you find out after you do your research and get the facts.


  375. @ Ayrton Trnka : I would suggest a remedial course in introduction reading and writing comprehesion would be helpful. Who pray tell is Opera?


  376. Interesting how an alleged black man with a sincere need is ignored while an alleged white person (also with a need though more hidden) is immediately responded to.

    @Lamont Gibson
    When I first read your post I was actively commenting on the racial profiling post – where I think its more appropriate – I only wish I could do something more then comment on your comment but alas my own struggles consume all my meager resources – so I can only wish you well and may you/we eventually achieve true victory.

    @Ayrton Trnka
    strange name – what struck me about your comment was the end –
    “im not looking for sympathy or justice all i want is peace and for people to stop complaining.”

    No matter how much abuse I have experienced or will experience before my inevitable demise I could never give up on justice and we all need some sort of sympathy just to be healthy.

    I find it curious the your so emotionally wounded ,but you can effectively access a computer ,use to locate a popular african american blog and find the content annoying and announce that your going to write a “research paper”.
    Very interesting
    I really need to spend more time with my psych studies so I may better comprehend other members of my species.


  377. Ayrton Trnka:

    Research writing a paragraph, before you do anything, please!

    This was the most, ignorant, uneducated and incoherent post I’ve read on abagond’s blog to date.

    I know Ayrton Trnka is saying to her or himself, thank god for anonymity over the Internet!

    My fellow people of color, when you see white people still think like this, you know that this country hasn’t gained very much ground, in terms of how they think about black people.


  378. Ayrton’s response rambled. But he basically said that instead of feeling sorry for yourselves and blaming others for your own flaws you should accept responsibility. He also said the solution was not to become militant but to focus on the important things like raising your children properly.

    If someone gave Asians, Hispanics or Whites that advice most would probably agree.


  379. In aryton’s extremely long, predictable rant, I saw numerous broken records.

    I doubt he/she won’t come back. Some trolls never come back when they leave their sh*t behind the same way dogs do.

    That’s one reason why I won’t bother responding to why everything written is wrong. The other reason is that you simply can not talk to those sheltered in their whiteness. They already think they know everything. They have no moral compass. They don’t ever take any accountability and responsibility for anything. And they are the biggest hypocrites. The sad reality is that many whites with power and privilege are like this, and karma seems to be taking its sweet time.


  380. I hear that, brotha wolf! That’s the truth….


  381. on Wed 13 Mar 2013 at 07:30:01 King of trouble

    @Ayrton Trnka, I am only going to do this because you said you were writing a paper indicating that you are still in school, I don’t know the level jr high – Masters level it doesn’t matter. Basically you are saying MLK said hey everybody lets work together while Malcolm X is saying hey lets arm ourselves and attack. Either you haven’t really read both or you are very early in on your research. I suggest you go to the open thread and ask some people some good sources for both. Malcolm was more about black people helping themselves out. Which is what you seem to be claiming right now so it seems ignorant to spout out something in which you have typed.

    Now here is a problem I have with you analyist most middle class and upper class blacks aren’t feeling sorry for themselves. Most black people aren’t feeling sorry for themselves but as a jealous lover some whites are sensitive to what is said by this minority with in a minority group. I for one am tired of hearing you blacks my parents raised me right you will constantly see on this blog people who feel that their parents also did a good job. We might not always agree in what but plenty of white Americans have done a crappy job raising their kids. Plenty of rich Americans historically have had servants raised their children and those childcare workers were blacks, now a lot of hispanics, and au pairs in which you will find many complaints about how these upper class Americans treat them.

    Please come with a better thesis than blacks should stop feeling sorry for themselves. Let me tell you I hear just as much bickering within other ethnic groups start listening a lot of other ethnic groups think whites are deaf or can only hear blacks. I personally think you’ve

    I would suggest that you even look into wikipedia on Social Mobility, they do have a nice starter article for you read. Hopefully you can move on from there.

    Here is the cliffnote version aka quotes of things Malcolm said. Many people talk but Malcolm reflected on the rights and wrongs he did over and self corrected. Hopefully you will think before you launch into your next critique.

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/malcolm_x.html


  382. @ Churchs

    “If someone gave Asians, Hispanics or Whites that advice most would probably agree.”–Either you have a knack for being wrong or you are going for a world record. You and Ayrton can throw a party and see who has the most misinformation.


  383. Sorry about my “rant” and saying that blacks are complaining, but all I have read from the majority of the comments is: 1. they will not listen to both sides 2. wont even consider the possibility of the other side having any good points 3. some of the comments seem only focusing on my fustration to the ubove comments.

    @churches:
    Thank you for cyphering out my main point for the others.

    @abagond
    Thank you for showing respect and not assulting me over my comment, that really means a lot.

    @everyone
    I’m sorry for my mistakes and run-ons i was in a hurry. I also ment oprah winfrey and I’m sorry for not double checking my spelling of everything before sending my response.

    @king of trouble
    One of the pieces i was talking about with malcom X “Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.” or “I am for violence if non-violence means we continue postponing a solution to the American black man’s problem just to avoid violence.” Some people wont read into what Malcom ment by this and only see that they need to act with violence.

    Gangs are what I mean by militant and i do not think they have the solution.

    Thanks everybody for help on the research paper I will be back when I have more time to write for now later


  384. @ Ayrton Trnka

    I don’t even think what King of Trouble said to you truly sunk into you brain. Which tells me at this point that what Brothawolf said is 100% truth and nothing more ( he has a knack for reading trolls).

    “but all I have read from the majority of the comments is: 1. they will not listen to both sides 2. wont even consider the possibility of the other side having any good points 3. some of the comments seem only focusing on my fustration to the ubove comments.”–This alone attests to your closed-mindedness. You basicly convinced yourself what blacks think without taking 5 minutes out to ask them what they think. You assumed, so what your paper really boils down to is “what I as a white guy thinks minus any real facts.”

    “Gangs are what I mean by militant and i do not think they have the solution”–You do realize that we have white, black, hispanic, and asian gangs right? Gangs are not a black only thing and if research is in the cards for you I suggest you look into why gangs began. The majority of them had little or nothing to do with being militant for the sake of torcher and violence against the white man. But guess what? A majority of White gangs were formed for the sake and purpose of torcher and violence against blacks and other people of color. Happy learning trails.


  385. WOW! They are bashing a white girl for being racist and generalizing black people and then turn around in the same breath and generalize white people, lol. Its like a Schizo merry-go-round! WATCH OUT! the white boogie man is coming for you! please…..


  386. @ Dman

    If you have a problem with what i said then atleast have the balls to address me. Then again I think you may find it hard to address someone that does not fit into you delusional stereotype.


  387. I said it before and I’ll say it again. To these trolls, talking about white racism is the same as bashing white people and that’s a big no-no. But then, to talk down to blacks is the way to go.

    Here’s three suggestions: don’t tell us to get over slavery, when you have the mentality of slave masters. Don’t talk to us about personal responsibility when you have a problem of accepting even a little bit yourself for anything. Lastly, don’t say something that is offensive and not expect to have responses that is appropriate. If you feel it is your right to be condescending, it is just our right to dish it back to you.


  388. @ brothawolf

    I applaud that reponse.


  389. I didn’t call you a racist, I said that you generalize white people: “The sad reality is that many whites with power and privilege are like this, and karma seems to be taking its sweet time.” Until you prove me wrong, I will assume you don’t want me dead, cause I’m white. I also assume that you would never deny me an opportunity just because I’m white.

    however, you will call me a racist, but thats okay. I know that I am not.

    Also, if you could give me the head quarters to this white lottery, that would be great! Cause right now, I’m shelling out 15 grand a year to go to school and only making 12 grand a year to live on. I study all day, most days, have no life, just for the promise of good job later on. If I could by pass all that, it would be just fantastic!


  390. @Dman

    As I recall you did not have the balls to address any particular person by name so I will assume you are talking to everyone. With that where did I ever generalize white people? Please bring about that magic response because I would so love to read it with my own eyes.

    Secondly I don’t remember him saying you did call him racist.

    Thirdly here is an example of a generalization. “All dogs hate cats.”

    Lastly, So now you want to play victim. Give me a break.


  391. Sharina & Brotha Wolf great responses to the trolls.


  392. Dman,

    According to WordPress, your latest comment was directed at me. So I will make this short and sweet.

    I never mentioned that anyone of these fellows were racist, and you’ve just proved my point about discussing racism. That is what you and other trolls do when you argue. You only prove us correct everytime you type.

    I don’t even know what you’re talking about in that last statement.

    I will say that talking about how we are sick of white racism, white supremacy, white privileges, whiteness and the people stuck on them who love to shove it in your face is IS NOT THE SAME as white people who not only hate us, but want us to obey them, serve them, and love them unconditionally despite that they also want us subservient, harmed (emotionally and physically), depressed, angry, lost, caged and killed just because we are not white.

    Go ahead and let that go straight over your head and tell me why you’ve allowed that to happen. I know that’s what you will do.


  393. @ Mary Burrell

    Thank you. :)


  394. Thanks Mary and Sharina :-).


  395. on Thu 14 Mar 2013 at 02:09:11 master0fpandas

    Alright, so first off you all are being extreamly ignorant.. this is a blog post, on the internet, everyone is obliged to their opinions and views on certain situations. And just because Ayrton isn’t agreeing with the post doesnt mean he is being ignorant, a troll, or whatever else.. he is simply just giving his own opinion on what he believes. Now weather you agree or not, that doesnt make him wrong. Everyone is jumping down eachothers throats because they arent hearing what they want to hear. If you dont want other peopels opinion, or get easily offended, dont post it on the internet or stay away from these kinds of posts.. Now im not saying i fully agree with what he’s saying, but i do agree for the most part..now after reading that im sure you are all like “ope she must be a racist too!” and thats where your ignorance comes into play..all are racist weather you see it or not.. Pretty sure it wouldnt fly if i said someone was something because of their “blackness” or “asianess” its much easier to say “whiteness” or “you white people” or “whites” and what not, but to be honest, you are just as much controdicting yourself when you say that to others just because they are white..but it’s okay to say that about white people because you are african american? but there it is again.. is it okay if we do that to them becuase they are the “superior race”? than it should be okay for whites to do that because they arent? Doesnt make much sense..People are who they are because of their actions, not because race or gender etc. and thats exactly what he’s saying. Every person has their own issues, set backs, and complications in life that we all go through at some point , so thats where he is saying since we are all humans, we all go through it, not just african americans. you are all just taking it wrong and personally(Ayrtons post). He uses Oprah as an example that there is hope and it really doesnt matter your race, sure it may have been harder due to her race, but she still made it, its all about mind power.. but yes, i dont doubt many people dont see that because many are very black and white about things.. take an all black school for instance, one white person goes there and they are immediately, “the smart one” “the rich one” “cracker”, racism is everywhere. But thats okay to say? just because white people made african americans slaves years ago? everyone should all feel bad? The whole world is a slave to one thing or another. A damn slave to money mostly. way back before the times people were owning this and that to become superior, look at animals, its just called dominance, the way of life..Ayrton is saying since it is life, dont feel so discriminated on.. & since whites have the upper hand on certain things, that shouldnt mean whites, hispanics, asians, are any different. Now dont get me wrong i completely dissagree with all the KKK and skin head bullshit but, not all white people are that, just like not all blacks are in gangs or any less of value.. Now before i end my rant.. about the whole raising thing, i believe a person is a certain way because of how you were raised..and not all people (not just african americans) make themselves look good-simply BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS. all anyone sees nowa days are all black people that are in gangs shooting others, or all muslims blowing up things & they must be terrorists, based on THEIR OWN ACTIONS..im not saying i know everything, or what is right, or how people should think on certain situations, i am simply giving what is on MY mind and what I believe..you can take it or leave it..OH & for the people who are all gung ho on Ayrton’s way of spelling, punctuation, grammar, WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?! you all knew what he ment..that is just an easy gateway for asshole people to target someone else to make them look less educated (or know what theyre talking about). hope you fuckers enjoyed my long ass rant & i honestly dont care if you dissagree, i appreciate people having a mind of their own. :)


  396. I didn’t call you a racist, I said that you generalize white people — Dman

    I’ll say it. But unlike you I won’t play “What’s in my pocket?” with them. I know what they are. They know what they are, too. That’s good enough for me.


  397. What are we Churchs? Come on, tell us. We won’t come to your neighborhood, rob you and defile your women. I promise.


  398. Churchs are russians that attend mass everyday!


  399. Churchs
    Sometimes I wonder why Abagond has been so patient with you, given that you’re just a condescending and snide little twat. I have a question: why do you bother coming here? I cannot figure out what you think you’re accomplishing by coming in, derailing threads, and just annoying people like some horrible little mosquito. Are you getting some bizarre thrill out of it, do you honestly believe the delusional idiocy you’re typing, or are you just a bored teenager with nothing better to do that be a useless troll?


  400. What are we Churchs? Come on, tell us. — brothawolf

    A slop jar without the jar. Thanks for asking. :lol:

    >>

    you’re just a condescending and snide little twat. — tehnoun

    Don’t you like twat?


  401. Apparently there were some irish that were slaves at the same time? Oh the tangled web.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076


  402. @ Masterofpandas

    You apparently don’t read very well or comprehension is not your strong point. It was not about agreeing or not it was about the fact that he/she was just dead wrong. It is one thing to have an opinion, but a whole different thing for it to be a fact and an opinion is not a fact.

    ““ope she must be a racist too!” –Please point to where anyone called he/she a racist? I am still waiting on the other individual to do this.And this is plays to heavily into our ignorance then I guess once you realize that no one said anything about anyone being racist then you will be more than happy to wear the ignorance sign but proudly admit to yours.

    “BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS. all anyone sees nowa days are all black people that are in gangs shooting others, or all muslims blowing up things & they must be terrorists, based on THEIR OWN ACTIONS..im not saying i know everything, or what is right, or how people should think on certain situations, i am simply giving what is on MY mind and what I believe.”–You are a big ball of contradictions aren’t you. You just generalized in one sentence and turned around to say by their own actions, but I am black and not in a gang. I have muslim friends and none of them have blown up anyone. hmmm.

    If I didn’t know any better I would say you are Ayrton’s little friend that has come to his/her rescue or a nice little sock puppet,


  403. @ Dman

    I have noticed a trend with some white individuals these days. They are the first to enter slavery into conversations and then try to accuse blacks of doing it. Man that is getting old. Makes me wonder about people like you.

    Secondly I will remember to tell my irish relatives they were slaves at one time. If of course they are not all dead by now (slacking on my geneology).

    Lastly, I was accussed of something and you still have yet to provide that proof. hmmm.


  404. on Thu 14 Mar 2013 at 13:45:52 King of trouble

    @master0fpandas
    I have to say it was an enjoyable read without paragraphs. I know it isn’t spelling I mind but an out and out barage of words without a frame is difficult to read. It is not so much a mind of your own that I am attacking it is the form that you just throw in the word all.

    Let me look at what you are saying because you are basically trying to defend someone who main thesis is “Black people should stop whining” just like you have done in your so called long rant he has grouped an entire people into one phrase.

    I don’t mind Church at least he can form a general opinion and phrase it to be read. Which is why I enjoy reading through a lot of his opinion. I at one time or another believe in some of his views. ex: privatization, ebonics being lazy grammar, and a few other things. I have travelled and studied a lot more and my opinions have changed.

    You on the other end have set up a rant that is hard to read. Now let me talk like you have. All I see now a days all we see is white people frakking the land poisoning the water supply, stealing money so a lot of people lose their 401k, dumping poisons into water that are cancerous and letting the nearby town bath their children in it and drink it, defecting to another country because they don’t want to pay taxes. Seems if you are greedy bastards that don’t know when to limit yourselves. Now this is just an example of how your style comes off to me. I could be wrong I invite a critque of my analyst because my own premises maybe be off. While I do think their are some people who fit of my description above and they fit the bill I also believe their are a lot of white people who are generally kind.

    Please, please, please take a few debating lesson and grow thicker skin but if not like I said to someone else you never have to be on the internet where you don’t feel wanted.

    Now please go hug yourself to day, and think of some warm fuzzy thoughts but your rant is not so much an arguement but a set of words driven by rage and not thought.

    May the Swartz be with you!


  405. “What exactly do you consider being accepted into the fold? We are still dealing with whites unjust killings of our youth. Done and upheld by ridiculous justifications such as music and their dress code.”

    This is equivalent to saying, “Some Black Americans can easily assimilate into White mainstream society at this point, but the masses of them cannot.”

    These are generalizations

    This is what I see happening in the world today. Certain rich people have decided that they are gonna own most of the wealth. They force EVERY one to work for low wages. This has caused disparity among the general population. Certain groups, I am sure on purpose, divide us ALL. They keep certain things going to divide and conquer. If you travel, I urge you to get out of the inner city and look around you. You will see a rich landscape where families of all colors are trying to just make a living.

    Now, I am going to make some generalizations here. I think, on a whole, the black population has a lot of pride, and refuse to grovel themselves to these people in power. It’s a culture thing, I get that. I view this as a positive. Someone has to say enough is enough. White people play the game. Most have no problem shunning their dignity and integrity to get where they need to go.

    However, instead of blaming the White man/Black man/Hispanic/Chinese (typing that gave me a headache),we need to come together to cut the cancer at its source. It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with the rich CEO, the rich politician, and their corporate controlled media. They are influencing this divide, they want to make sure that we fight each other, and pay no attention to them. I happen to live in a neighboorhood that is totally mixed in culture. I see ALL people struggle everyday to pay their bills and feed their families, while the person who pays them travels the world in a boat sipping 500 dollar champagne, claiming that he/she works harder than you and me. TURN off the TV and REJECT the divide. This is all I’m gonna say on this. I’m done. I know it won’t make any difference.


  406. @ Abagond

    They got nasty and they got pwned. Deleting my response was such a double standard.


  407. @ Churchs

    Oh please. Act like you are more than eight. Your comment was just schoolyard name-calling. There was nothing of substance in it.


  408. “Your comment was just schoolyard name-calling. There was nothing of substance in it.” — abagond

    Yeah. And the comments I responded to were “just schoolyard name-calling” with “nothing of substance in it”. Maybe you should clean up your blog by deleting all such comments?


  409. And the bully plays victim. Funny how you are all for it when you are getting away with it but crying when you get caught and punished.


  410. @ Dman

    Well said!

    Your comment actually does make a great deal of difference…to those who want it to and those are the ones that matter…


  411. @ Churchs

    I restored your comment.


  412. @ Dman

    ““What exactly do you consider being accepted into the fold? We are still dealing with whites unjust killings of our youth. Done and upheld by ridiculous justifications such as music and their dress code.”

    Do you even know what a generalization is? I want to break out in a roar of laughter because I even gave you an example yet you are still trying to tell me I am or have generalized a whole group of people based on a statement that was not even dealing with you. If I am not mistaken my notification said you responded to this comment:

    @ Ayrton Trnka

    I don’t even think what King of Trouble said to you truly sunk into you brain. Which tells me at this point that what Brothawolf said is 100% truth and nothing more ( he has a knack for reading trolls).

    “but all I have read from the majority of the comments is: 1. they will not listen to both sides 2. wont even consider the possibility of the other side having any good points 3. some of the comments seem only focusing on my fustration to the ubove comments.”–This alone attests to your closed-mindedness. You basicly convinced yourself what blacks think without taking 5 minutes out to ask them what they think. You assumed, so what your paper really boils down to is “what I as a white guy thinks minus any real facts.”

    “Gangs are what I mean by militant and i do not think they have the solution”–You do realize that we have white, black, hispanic, and asian gangs right? Gangs are not a black only thing and if research is in the cards for you I suggest you look into why gangs began. The majority of them had little or nothing to do with being militant for the sake of torcher and violence against the white man. But guess what? A majority of White gangs were formed for the sake and purpose of torcher and violence against blacks and other people of color. Happy learning trails.

    Now since you want to back track to that old argument then lets do so. Here is a definition of generalization: A generalization is a statement which is all embracing. Generalizations are often considered inaccurate, not allowing for exceptions, or making sweeping statements which don’t acknowledge other factors. In correct usage, they’re usually qualified with an expression like ‘Generally’ or ‘in general’, which modifies the statement into a basic descriptor of a situation or subject, rather than a full description. Generalizations are functionally effective as scene setters, creating a framework for statements. They’re particularly ineffective as analytical bases because their broad nature makes them inaccurate in detail.

    Now tell me where I said all whites? Heck even your supposed equivalent sentence is not a generalization. *SMH


  413. @ Dman

    “TURN off the TV and REJECT the divide. This is all I’m gonna say on this. I’m done. I know it won’t make any difference.”—I don’t watch TV.


  414. And the bully plays victim. Funny how you are all for it when you are getting away with it but crying when you get caught and punished.

    Find one place where I’ve called someone names. Yet on this thread alone I’ve been called a “donkey”, “whore” and “twat”. So, yes, I’m saying abagond has a double standard.


  415. @ Kwamla

    After he spent half the time talk crap about blacks and now he wants a kumbaya moment. I am not buying it.


  416. @Sharina

    What masterofpandas is trying to say is that a gang is a gang by its own actions andwhy we look down on them is for what they do. You Generalise all our statments and think they are directed towards you or all blacks in general. What masterofpandas, churchs, and I are trying to tell you people, but you dont seem to be getting it, is people have a fear and generalization of blacks is because of the few it takes to ruin a good name.

    I know for a fact you wont agree and i’m not even worried about it because even when people like us try to show you another side of the table you become closed-minded and shut out all other opinions but yourself or people that agree with you.

    All I want is you to see both sides openly without prejudice and at least consider someones actions as helpful before damning them and their ideas.

    What are we on the web? I don’t see color here Sharina your picture is yellow, churchs is blue, king of trouble is pink, and brothawolf is a wolf. From my stand point how do we know your black or white or asian or hispanic? We don’t we trust your words. The words that come directly from you brain. On the web we dont talk from race to race, we talk from brain to brain, personality to personality, and experience to experience.

    Now Sharina before you start saying I’m stupid or whatever your going to say to me, I have a challenge for you. Try to see my stand point and say something nice about my brain before you attack me because im white.

    I seriously doubt you can but i would like to be proven wrong.

    @ king of trouble

    I love your respect towards people that you dont agree with, it gives me deep respect for you. You give constructive criticism and modivate others to challenge themselves. You can be a little blunt about it sometimes, but you do it without prejudice and i really apreciate that.

    @everyone

    Thanks again everybody this thread is really helping me shap my thesis and form my modern belief page.


  417. @ Dman

    “…However, instead of blaming the White man/Black man/Hispanic/Chinese (typing that gave me a headache),we need to come together to cut the cancer at its source. It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with the rich CEO, the rich politician, and their corporate controlled media. They are influencing this divide, they want to make sure that we fight each other, and pay no attention to them. I happen to live in a neighboorhood that is totally mixed in culture. I see ALL people struggle everyday to pay their bills and feed their families, while the person who pays them travels the world in a boat sipping 500 dollar champagne, claiming that he/she works harder than you and me. TURN off the TV and REJECT the divide. This is all I’m gonna say on this. I’m done. I know it won’t make any difference….”

    The people in this blog are probably NOT the people you really need to be saying this too. Just realising this and applying your above response to those people you believe are influencing this divide will make all the difference in the world!


  418. My third paragraph I ment to say “Don’t we trust your words.” not “we don’t we trust your words.” sorry


  419. @ Churchs

    You don’t have to call names to be a bully, but you do your share of dirt and are magicly ignored for it where others get deleted comments.


  420. @ Sharina

    I feel I might be guilty of not reading all past comments so you could be right here!


  421. @Kwamla

    Why do you automaticly side with her instead of checking out the comments what if she was lieing. You just followed her without thinking for yourself.


  422. @Kwamla

    sorry i misread you sentence


  423. @ Ayrton Trnka

    I understood clearly what Churchs was saying and you and masterofpandas were clearly not saying the same thing. What you were and are attempting to do is piggy back on his statements to somehow gain some credibility. You can back peddle all you want to, but that last minute victim kumbaya bs does not sit well with me.

    “You Generalise all our statments and think they are directed towards you or all blacks in general.”–You generalized your own statments and trying to place blame on me is really pretty low.

    “I know for a fact you wont agree and i’m not even worried about it because even when people like us try to show you another side of the table you become closed-minded and shut out all other opinions but yourself or people that agree with you.”—There you go pretending to know what I think when you have yet to ask me what I think. Again thinking your assumptions have merit. Let me stop you here because it is clear you think you know me. My granfather was of irish decent and grandmother is black. My father black and mother mixed. My husband is Mexican. I have a total of 3 black friends and the rest are either white or Asian. So leave it to me to judge people on their color right. I judge people based on attitude and when one white guy kills a school full of kids or rapes some kids I don’t put the blame on all whites. People are their own individual and that is how I judge.

    I think you are ignorant none the less and before you go all postal you may want to familiarize yourself with the definition. There is much you don’t know yet you and your butt buddy masterofpandas pander around as if you do. Like I told him…your opinion is not fact. Do research and educate yourself and then I will show you the respect you failed to show others when you came in this room.


  424. @ Kwamla

    It happens to all of us. Right now my BS meter is up and I am just calling them out on it.


  425. @ Ayrton Trnka

    Excuse you dear…I don’t waste my time with petty lies when someone could easily scroll up and read the exchanges. You might be into back-peddling and flat out lying but that is not my cup of tea.


  426. @ Kwamla

    I will make a correction though and say blacks in this room. Not sure how he feels about all blacks. Although I can guess, but I rather not.


  427. @ Abagond

    Thank you. I’d really rather not have any name-calling. Because you’re right. It is childish. But I have to pwn them once in a while just to keep them from getting too abusive.


  428. @ Churchs

    A thank you. Wow I really have to respect that (and no I am not being sarcastic or joking).


  429. @ Sharina

    I disagree with his opinions. But for the most part he moderates the blog fairly. I can respect that. Two days ago.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/language-myth-13-black-children-are-verbally-deprived/#comment-164364


  430. Alright, so first off you all are being extreamly ignorant.. this is a blog post, on the internet, everyone is obliged to their opinions and views on certain situations.

    Huh?!

    And just because Ayrton isn’t agreeing with the post doesnt mean he is being ignorant, a troll, or whatever else.. he is simply just giving his own opinion on what he believes

    Quick, crack out the violins!!

    WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?!

    Practice what you preach and don’t post incoherent diatribes here again!


  431. Wow. It’s like the Challenger explosion in super slow motion.

    It’s like I said, some of these people don’t want to learn, but a few of them believe we will ultimately learn from them. All I’ve learn is that no matter what, in these topics, when they try to argue or refute the subject, they always end up making the issue that much stronger.

    Isn’t the point of any debate or argument is to try to prove the other person wrong if you disagree with their stance? I haven’t seen it. All I see are the usual broken record responses with a pinch of name calling and a side of belated sympathy.

    In the end you have to assume these people are not serious about the topic. No person is dense as to not understand what is being said. But they do seem immensely stubborn or incredibly and purposely deceptive and juvenile. In any case only they make themselves look bad, especially when they show us that once again that dealing with white people is a pain in the fanny.

    I have to conclude that these people are not one bit serious. They are not interested in learning or sticking with the topic. To them this matter is a huge joke when it concerns the people they honestly don’t care about. That’s why they are amused.

    To go even further they may consider this a slap in the face of the white race. To do so is considered high treason to them. We are not supposed to cry or complain about how racism treats us, but to cry or complain about our crying and complaining is reasonable.

    In other words we are not allowed to complain about the abuses of the slavemaster, but they can complain about the actions, behavior and mentality of the slaves that threaten the integrity of the white man. But we will not get over something like slavery, unless white people get over their slavemaster mentalities i.e. racism and white supremacy.


  432. I heard a couple of you talk about a “slavemaster” mentality. Can you tell me what this is? Can you give me an exact example from your life. Also could you give me an example in your life were you were denied something cause of the color of your skin? I am totally serious. Cause so far I hear a bunch of generalisations, but no personal specific stories, such as “I didn’t get that A in school cause I was black”. Something such as this. I am just having a hard time understanding, cause slavery was a long time ago. As far as I know there are no slavemasters anymore.


  433. Dman, surely you know about “Jim Crow” which followed slavery?


  434. yes I know about that, but that is also gone


  435. I just want to know what has happened in your life that makes you feel that things are so bad?


  436. Well let me ask, are you looking for instances when someone looks you in they eye and says to you, “This is happening to you, or bring denied to you specifically because of your skin color?”


  437. being denied to you


  438. @ Dman

    Things don’t have to be bad in a persons life to acknowledge racism. This is what you and many like you fail to realize. The purpose of this blog is to discuss racist situations whether it has happened to them or not. Some in here have experienced it where others have not, but that does not mean it should not be discussed because it is somehow wrong. Are you pitching this wrong attitude to stormfront or other white racist blogs?

    What I see from most trolls is that they are offended by people bringing up the flaws in white society. it is not to say that all whites are this way, but 9 times out of 10 the ones that are offended are and thus this applies to.

    When we discuss in-house problems with blacks I acknowledge them and move on. I respectfully say my peace whether in agreeance or not. The key word is respect and you, masterofpanda, and Ayrton Trnka came in the blog with a very disrespectful disposition and figured it was ok because of what you thought we said and believed. It is like spitting in someones face and trying to continue on a conversation as if nothing happened.

    You still have not apologized for lying on me and saying I did something or said something I did not. Yet here you are wanting us to respect you enough to listen to you or answer your questions? Do you not see a problem with that?


  439. Here are some great examples of racism:

    My uncle was beaten near death by a group of white guys for being black and riding his bike past their hang out spot. None of them have been charged for this.

    My same uncle was also called a n**ger at his job by a white individual because he felt my uncle had no right to instruct him on working and not running his mouth so much.


  440. Let me not mention my aunt was turned down for a job because the lady said she did not want a n**ger helping her in her home (aunt is a caregiver).


  441. I was turned down for a job once because they didn’t want a gay man working there. After that i went and got a degree. I quoted you in an earlier post, look up.


  442. @ Dman

    They could tell you were gay from across the room?


  443. @Dman

    I was turned down for a job once because they didn’t want a gay man working there. After that i went and got a degree. I quoted you in an earlier post, look up.

    Though people might ‘think’ someone is gay, you cant tell that someone is gay just by looking at them. Whilst this is clearly discrimination I doubt if you are a WM that you face the same challenges as someone who does not fit the WAS look…


  444. well of course! You know some of us don’t hide it that well. Wish they offered a course in school on how to talk butch.


  445. and yes they said it was a family establishment and they didn’t think their customers would agree with my lifestyle. Of course they asked me if I was gay, and I don’t hide that. I love who I am, I have lots of fun being who I am.


  446. Truly though it didn’t upset me that much, it did at the time, but I realised I wouldn’t want to work in a place like that anyway.


  447. Dman,

    From what I’ve learned, and assuming you’re white, whenever white people ask for some understanding as to why we seem ‘agitated’ or what not, they really don’t care as to the reason. They see it as excuses. They think we are angry for no reason and should just move on and should focus on issues they (white people) think is important. But I hope you will prove me that you’re not like that.

    I will tell you what a slavermaster mentality is in a way as to not deviate from the topic.

    A slavermaster’s mentality is another name for white supremacist or white racist mindframe that demotes black people as lesser than he or she is. Their emotions, opinions, thinking, culture, experiences, anything about them as individuals or a collective is reduced, stripped away, rejected, ridiculed, warped, ignored or destroyed completely in favor of supporting white emotions, myths, lies and privileges. In other words in order to feel or appear superior, they need black people to feel and appear inferior.

    This is why this blog is constantly under attack from passer-bys we refer to as trolls. They come in here with the intent of derailment, to tell us why we’re wrong on their own free will. They don’t care to hear our side because to them, our side is stupid. Why is it stupid? Because they say so. Well, who are they?

    You see, you saying that slavery happened a long time ago shows that you are unaware of how such an event can have an influence on future generations. As such, you either ignore or deny that it can have a significant effect on how blacks and whites are today.

    You also ignore of the true history of other forms of oppression such as the Black Codes, Jim Crow, the War on Drugs, the School-To-Prison Pipeline and any and all forms of systematic oppression against blacks and browns. And the reason why you ignore it or don’t consider the impact that and slavery has had on African Americans in the past to today is because you never had to think about it. You never had to think that you, assuming you’re white, has gained he benefits of this form of oppression in many ways, not all having to do with material goods and wealth.

    When you think about it, it is a simple concept. If there is an oppressed class, there has to be an oppressor class. And many white people, while they are not all oppressors per se, reap the privileges of being white in a white racist society built on the premise of white superiority.

    I will tell you from personal experience how it works. And just for the record, I never said that things are bad. However, I WILL say things could improve a hell of a lot, especially when white people stop their color-aroused obsession disorder. Figuratively speaking, black people and POC can only do so much. Since this is still a white dominated society where white people control most of the politics, corporations, media, and economic systems, white people must realize that they must do the heavy lifting. But I digress.

    I’ll give you an example from my life. When I was in a store at the checkout lane, I was fingerprinted. The thing is the person ahead of me was white and never got fingerprinted. No store has ever asked for fingerprints. So, this was unusual to me. However, I saw the writing on the wall. Someone must’ve tried to rob or shoplift from the store, and I can only guess that the person was black or else the white person before me would’ve been fingerprinted as well. So, the store employee felt that it was only fair to fingerprint black people because of the stereotype that blacks are more prone to crime like stealing. If one black person is a thief, than most or all of them have that passion.

    Again, this is but one example.

    You see, black people don’t have the privilege of being seen as individuals unless one, a few or many have done something outstanding, brilliant or altruistic. But when a crime is committed and it was done by blacks, then it’s typical of the whole group to be criminal prone. I am reminded of this every single day. Not a day goes by when someone or something tells me that we are no good. Do you know how that feels, to be condemned every day because you are what you are?


  448. @Dman

    My final note, just to say there are no ‘winners’ in terms of who is more discriminated against than the other. It seems from your post that you are saying that you met an obstacle and you overcame it – good for you. Most people don’t let such incidents define their lives path but perhaps they might use it to ‘inform’ their thinking and learn from it. I imagine blogs like this are cathartic for just letting off steam and realising that you are not alone in terms of these experiences.


  449. Thanks everyone, and thanks brothawolf for you comments. That last paragraph especially moved me, and gave me great insight.


  450. @ Dman

    That is yet another subject that I am extremely passionate about because I am a strong believer in who a person loves should never dictate their ability to be or do anything. In fact I advocate with different GLBT groups for equal rights. Have been since college years when I decided to do a speech in regards to it. We were critiqued by the students and one told me my speech was inappropriate. Made me fight harder.


  451. Do you know how that feels, to be condemned every day because you are what you are?

    Yes


  452. brothawolf:

    Whoa!!! Brotha you really are droppin the knowledge on them, today!

    I see you, brothawolf……. I see ya brotha!

    Dman:

    “Thanks everyone, and thanks brothawolf for you comments. That last paragraph especially moved me, and gave me great insight.”

    I am 100% positive that abagond, created this blog for the sole purpose of having a forum for black people and other people of color to talk about our experiences, challenges and successes within a white supremacist, society.

    This blog wasn’t intended for white people, now that being said, it doesn’t mean abagond or its members, won’t welcome white people to read and engage in a respectful dialog about issues that concern the minority community.

    However, things always take a turn for the worse, when white people come on this site for the sole purpose of just trying to stir things up by insulting and derailing the topic of discussion.

    Brothawolf said it best:

    “This is why this blog is constantly under attack from passer-bys we refer to as trolls. They come in here with the intent of derailment, to tell us why we’re wrong on their own free will. They don’t care to hear our side because to them, our side is stupid. Why is it stupid? Because they say so. Well, who are they?”

    This is why you see some hostility, towards some white people from this blog’s members, not because they are WHITE!

    They make it clear from their very 1st post, that they are not here to actually, “talk to us” but talk “at us”, there is a difference.

    Now in your case Dman, you actually acknowledged something that brothawolf said, then went on to even say, it gave you great insight.

    This is the very least, we expect from white people that visit this blog, because if your intention is to actually understand why black people and other people of color are always, speaking out against racism( not complaining ) then you would have a humble attitude. Instead we are met with, “let me, ( a white person ) tell you how you should, think, act, talk, walk, live and then maybe, your life will be better.

    I think we had enough of white people, telling us how we should do anything, we tried being submissive( slavery ), tried to coexist ( Jim crow ), we tried to meet white people half way ( civil rights movement ).

    None of these tactics worked ( i say this because over 40 years since the civil rights movement, equality between black and whites are still unacceptable), because white people never had any intention of wanting to live in a society, where blacks are equal to them and they still don’t.

    I am a black man, i have to deal with being black in a white supremacist society, every day of my life. I don’t want to have to deal with it, when i log on to a blog, that’s intended for me and others like me, where we can talk about the issues that effect us, every day of our lives.

    This is why, we are quick to eviscerate, any white person that comes on here to play their broken records and derail our conversations. They are trolls and not to be taken seriously.


  453. @ Sondis

    IKR? I was sitting here applauding brothawolf’s responses. He was without a doubt on point.


  454. Sondis, Sharina,

    Thanks. I started not to do this because I was thinking to myself that blacks have tried with the patience of a thousand saints to tell white people what’s wrong, and it was honest, straightforward and truthful for more years than I can fathom. And after roughly three to four centuries, many of them still haven’t understood!

    Some of us make the mistake that they all are just cosmically retarded as hell, but that’s the case, AT LEAST with some of them. They have that white racial mindframe that tells them that we don’t matter because we are not white. Their mindset tells them that black people are beneath them. It tells them that we are inferior when it comes to everything. And it tells them that they are only worth something as long as they help them at their expense. If they don’t or can’t be part of their system, then they should be thrown away. If they fight the system, try to change or surpass it, then they are a threat that must be taken care of. So, most white people know in their hearts what’s up. They just don’t care.

    Does this mean they are innately evil? No. But just like we were conditioned, so were they, and if they want to truly be happy with no strings, then they need to listen, learn,work hard, make amends and struggle like hell to change their mindsets and hearts so then, and only then they wouldn’t be so fragile about the subject of racism or stubborn about learning the unpleasant truths, especially when it comes to the past.

    They may think this is brainwashing, but this is un-brainwashing. This isn’t a liberal, conservative or any ploy to attack whites. This is the only way they will be free of the sins of their fathers and forefathers. This is a way for them to regain their humanity, the humanity they traded in for white supremacy hundreds of years ago.


  455. Churchs,

    If that was true, then you should know where we are coming from. You should know the pain it feels to be marginalized, scapegoated, dehumanized, and discriminated against. If you do know, then you wouldn’t be trying to bash us for “racism against whites” which is not happening.

    I can’t speak for everyone, but I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had. I am sick and tired of them not knowing and/or caring what’s wrong with their racism. And I am sick and tired of them telling me how wrong I am for feeling the way I do when I didn’t make this world, nor reap the benefits from it.

    At work today, the teacher had students do some pantomiming in groups. One group had four black girls and one white girl acting something and the other kids had to guess what it was. I didn’t know what it was until one of the students told me that the four black girls were slaves and the white girl was a slave master. I am not kidding.

    I was shocked and horrified. I had to ask a black teacher if she agreed, and she did. I was going to say something, but I can’t. Why? Because it could’ve jeopardized my job, and with jobs being so scarce in my area, I really, really need this. So, I didn’t know what to do. All I know was that I was mortified as hell, and still am.


  456. Sharina:

    what’s IKR?


  457. IKR= I know right.

    @ Brothawolf, Sondis

    You all are preaching up in here!

    I know this blog spot has truly open my horizon regarding appreciating my past. I don’t see racism ending in my life nor my children’s but learning new ways to navigate through the White supremacy system is crucial to the future generation. I’ve learned tremendously through this blog. And I’m truly grateful to Abagond and the wonderful commenters of this space.


  458. I am going to use one of mine and Brotha Wolf’s favorite blogger Lavern Merriwether’s words. ” When I am trying to tell you how my feet hurt in my uncomfortable shoes, Don’t tell me how to feel when your’s fit just perfectly”. That is how it is when we are trying to make white understand what we are experiencing. When all they can say is we are all ways complaining. It’s very frustrating and it makes me angry at their lack of understanding and lack of empathy.


  459. @Mary Burrell

    That is a very wise quote and very true. Often times on this blog with certain white individuals I feel like I am speaking another language, I can type paragraph after paragraph explaining and it is always like a huh? factor for them.


  460. @ Brothawolf, Sondis, Sharina:

    Some excellent comments, words of advice and information on the experience of, and on dealing with issues of, racism: white supremacy/Black inferiority.

    These should probably be placed on a “sticky post” at the top to refer any new racism unaware white (trolls) commentators to.


  461. on Fri 15 Mar 2013 at 14:06:48 Leeada Johnson

    Good Old Agabond, spreading race hatred over the years, in her inability to deal with the facts. Black American, cure your crime rate first, lets see if you can drop your murder rate by 88%, so that you are no different to white Americans, and then you can talk about racism.


  462. Leeada Johnson:

    *conjures up Magic spell

    Abracadabra!….Hocus-Pocus! Troll be gone!! poof!!

    Presto, she’s gone…. ^_^


  463. Well, she’s gone for now but my simply magical powers, are no match for a white troll.

    I would have to summon the mighty abagond, to perform his superior, wizardry.

    -_-


  464. Hey, sometimes you have to just laugh at these white trolls. lol


  465. Hey, sometimes you have to just laugh at these white trolls. lol

    I laugh at and mock these clowns on a constant basis. You don’t need to watch comedy shows, just read their posts.


  466. @ brothawolf

    If you scroll up to the original post you’ll see a list of what Abagond claims are examples of “racism against blacks”. If you go through the comments you’ll see I addressed all of them with evidence his allegations were mistaken.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-157022

    Why does a disparity have to be caused by something someone else does rather than something you do yourselves? The evidence shows the latter but you refuse to accept it. Even worse you refuse to do anything about it. You simply blame whites and accuse them of racism for refusing to be scapegoated.


  467. @brothawolf

    You should know the pain it feels to be marginalized, scapegoated, dehumanized, and discriminated against. If you do know, then you wouldn’t be trying to bash us for “racism against whites” which is not happening.
    I can’t speak for everyone, but I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.

    Not so long ago you said this too:

    You know, I often wonder about the theory of alternate dimensions and multiuniverses. I am not ashamed to say this, but I would LOVE to visit a world where in modern times blacks ran the world, a world where the dominant superpowers were located in Africa and other African colonized nations.

    (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/if-it-were-the-other-way-round/#comment-162677)

    It’s amazing that you managed to deny the existence of “racism against whites” and then, two sentences later, delivered an example of a Black racist mindset that supposedly doesn’t exist.

    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”

    You are not really against race-based social advantages. You are not really against racism or inequality. You just wish you could be the advantaged one, that you could be benefiting from racism. You do not want racism, marginalization, scapegoating, dehumanization and discrimination (etc.) to end. You just want the system to favor you. What is that, if not a Black racist mindset?

    P.S. “Theory of alternate dimensions”? Somebody has been learning science from sci-fi movies…


  468. Actually the theory of “multiple dimensions,” probably better expressed as “alternate” or “hidden” dimensions, is a viable and current scientific theory.

    However, if you’re talking about “multiverse theory” then yes, that is probably just wishful thinking.


  469. @Sharina

    I base what I think poeple think and how they are by what they say you have not said anything nice or constructive, therefore I do not believe you are capable of it.

    Im not trying to get any respect or credibility from churchs, I’m forming my own opinion of things and adapting to peoples veiws instead of attacking them outright. This is what I asked of you, to look at my veiw in a different light and have a conversation on a new level of understanding.

    I am a very understanding person I’ve been through a lot and if i’ve learned anything from it, its you can always come to an understanding if both sides are open to new ideas or realitys.

    One reason im against what has been said in this post and comment thread is racism and disgrimination is regional: for instince, where I live the majority of the population is black and mexican. I don’t feel like blacks are being disgriminated by whites, my friends don’t either.

    Now I know your gonna do the same thing as last time so all I’m asking this time is to please consider my thoughts and ideas and be constructive with your ideas toward me so i can learn more from this thread. Humans never stop learning, you can learn something new everyday.

    Oh and I bet you don’t understand my point of view because your older I’m pretty sure, we generally have a brighter more hopful picture on life. I also understand this could be because I havn’t experienced everything in life but thats the reason im asking you to “teach” me your opinion so I better understand where you are coming from.


  470. @Eco

    Nice catch man. Amazing call.


  471. Shoot, here comes the cavalry of clowns. I think I’ll sit back, have some popcorn and let the ensuing comedy commence! What say you?


  472. @ Ayrton Trnka

    All I hear from you is “Me. Me, Me, and did I for get Me.” That was what you did when you came here and that is what you are doing now, but magically you have the nerve to say you want to understand others point of view and opinions. I flat out gave you my opinion and you still are saying crap like ” but thats the reason im asking you to “teach” me your opinion so I better understand where you are coming from.”

    “Oh and I bet you don’t understand my point of view because your older I’m pretty sure, we generally have a brighter more hopful picture on life.”—This is yet another example of the issues I have with you. Don’t assume what my life or anyone’s life is like. Flat out ask them. If you really care to know about someone ask them. My outlook on life is bright and bubbly which is why I am easy to get and maintain friendships from different races.

    “One reason im against what has been said in this post and comment thread is racism and disgrimination is regional”—What you don’t realize is I don’t mind an opposing view. What I mind is people just being straight racist. On top of this you say this yet high-five individuals who have the most racist comments ever. Yet you only oppose views that say things about whites you consider racist. Stop with the constant back-peddling.

    Being young or white or whatever has little or nothing to do with this. There are young individuals on this blog as well and I respect them and their opinions because they are not closed-minded in the slightest. You are extremely ignorant and closed-minded and it is a choice you have made. Nothing I say will change that until you decided that you want to open your own mind.


  473. and Ayrton Trnka let that one go right over your head. Like everything else.


  474. I dont get that is a racist mind set by Brothawolf at all, Eco,he just would like to feel what it is like if Afro descendants had the power

    Dont you think the people stuck in the Warsaw ghetto didnt imagine what it would be like to be out from under the Nazi’s?

    Its just a fact that being black in America means you are going to feel marginalised and left out…its still subtlely thrown out in the media all the time, even with a black presence in American media more than lets say Brazil…its still a fact in hiring practices, finding housing , social politicing , news depictions , the attention to minority areas compared to all white areas etc The proof is show on this blog in undeniable examples on a regular basis…many people testified their first racial prejudice was felt in school by the teacher

    Having to see this on a regular basis,it is totaly human to imagin what if things were differant and how do they feel

    i never got that Brothawolf is just racist…at all


  475. @ Churchs

    Actually it took you a while to provide evidence. In fact I think I provided some of the evidence for you. I also stated something in regards to the most likely to be out of work. No one really wants a job that you are over qualified for. If you got your degree and worked hard you do not want a job that a illegal immigrant can get without any type of education. It is a job none the less but frankly Americans are proud like that.


  476. @eco

    Sorry, but what you are doing is projecting your own racist mindset onto Brotherwolf here?. When he says:

    “…You know, I often wonder about the theory of alternate dimensions and multiuniverses. I am not ashamed to say this, but I would LOVE to visit a world where in modern times blacks ran the world, a world where the dominant superpowers were located in Africa and other African colonized nations…”

    And then youeco go on to say this:

    “…It’s amazing that you managed to deny the existence of “racism against whites” and then, two sentences later, delivered an example of a Black racist mindset that supposedly doesn’t exist.

    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”

    You are not really against race-based social advantages. You are not really against racism or inequality. You just wish you could be the advantaged one, that you could be benefiting from racism. .”

    Where in what Brothawolf says does he wish for a dominant Black run world to negatively oppress or subjugate white people? – What you are calling Black racism?

    What you are sub-consciously inferring and projecting is that a dominant superpower located in Africa and other African colonized nations would behave in EXACTLY the same way current European, American and Western nations do totay?

    This is a BIG assumption. Based on what historical evidence? This is why it is easy to see how you might easily reserve the situation and conclude this is an example of Black racism. When clearly it is not!

    I’ve been here before with you eco…I’ve commented extensively to you on your inability to comprehend a more specific and contextualised definition of racism:

    Racism: white superiority/Black inferiority

    This is precisely what has led you jump to your erroneous conclusion here…I honestly suspect you may never learn…


  477. @ King

    “…However, if you’re talking about “multiverse theory” then yes, that is probably just wishful thinking…

    This is not wishful thinking this is also expressed in science as well. Science talks about “multiple parallel universes” co-existing in the same time and space.

    Of course if you believe in a “one world reality” then you could never entertain a multiverse theory. But I do personally believe the one world view is flawed!


  478. Your welcome Legion!. I think your contribution is best summed up as “Schrödinger’s cat “ experiment…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat


  479. not magicly iv always but people can express their discontent in a different manner besides complaining


  480. all i’ve been asking is for you not nvm… we both think each other is closed minded so i give up you win.


  481. @ Ayrton Trnka

    Let’s be honest. You don’t know what you are asking for because you say one thing and turn around and do the complete opposite or you will say one thing and say another. I think you say whatever you think will appease people without a thought on what you are actually saying. You are looking for an applause factor from commenters and because you are not getting it you just give up.

    Another thing you need to realize is the world is not going to sugarcoat responses to make you feel better. Some people are going to be harsh and that is the way it is. Abagond was harsh in this post, but you felt it was a complaint because you expected it to be sugarcoated for you.

    Your childish among other things which is to be expected when you are young. You have made it clear that closed-minded (in your book) equals not agreeing with you or hearing you out. Which still amounts to you and your me me me me me listen to me me me me factor.


  482. @ Kwamla

    I’d say that multiverse is talked about by scientist as an unproven theory, for which there is no evidence. But it is not science until it is actually based on more than people guessing if such a thing would be theoretically possible. I leave room for its possibility, but at this juncture, it must remain as “highly improbable.”


  483. @ Legion

    This is not my understanding…But thanks anyway…I know you don’t seriously want to debate this….I know I don’t!


  484. @ King

    There are many things talked about by scientists as unproven theories for which they say there is no evidence. I personally would not wait around for any scientist to prove to me there is such a thing as “spirit” or “consciousness”. Would you?


  485. Thank you for writing about this issue, liked your Elen D. post also- I grew up in an all white town, lower/middle class. When I turned 21 I decided to move to Nashville. OMG when I got there, there were black people. I was scared to death of black people, because the only black people I ever saw murdered someone on the news.

    I found a job at a restaurant, the servers were young, crazy, white, black, and gay- I loved it!!! People need to come together and learn about different cultures.

    Yes racism does exist- have seen it many times. A couple of examples- went to a restaurant, they said they were full uummm most of the tables were open. It was myself, hispanic and black friend. The restaurant I worked at served upper class white people. My black friends that spoke standard english were allowed to work in the dining area, my friend that could not code switch was only allowed to work in the cocktail lounge. I know that for fact because my white manager told me I was not allowed to ask her to work for me because of it.

    Oh- many uppler class/middle class whites do not know about AAVE. They think black people that don’t speak in the AAVE are educated, they do not realize educated black people speak that way in thier homes… after I graduated from college I had to change the way I spoke at work. It’s difficult sometimes. I can no longer say- Hey, watcha gunna do later?? White people put people into classes by way of speech,


  486. I would not consider belief in a “spirit” to be scientific.

    Science has much better evidence of the phenomenon of consciousness, although many definition tends to move into the realm of philosophy.


  487. on Fri 15 Mar 2013 at 21:31:21 slave2222lot231

    I mean these white men have no idea how good they got it. I was telling mazy last week about how Mr. Smith sold the Johnson family down the street! Busted up the whole family, all 12 of them! Then those 10 white men that came into the fields yesterday and shot up the folks down on the Henderson Plantation! I am just glad that my master allowed me to pick up some books and learn to read and write. Course, he got me doing his taxes now. You know he paid 12,000 dollars in taxes last year! I would gladly pay that if I could go to college with some of those white children. I would work real hard and make A’s and get a good job! I’d be an upstanding member of society, if they’d just give me a chance to make it! There’s no way in heaven they would allow a black man to do that! Get an education and job! No way Oh that would be nice, I’d get one of those automobliles! and a TV! maybe a cell phone! Speaking of that I got to go, if my master catches me playing on his computer he is gonna whooop my hide. God forbid he ever finds out I spoke my mind on here!


  488. @ slave2222lot231

    Yep just another example of an ignorant white dude seeking attention. I will remember to tell those blacks with jobs and education that that is soooo impossible. No way they can achieve. White racist individuals just won’t have them black folk achieving. Are you going to play victim later too?


  489. If it has been said once then it begs to be said again. Whites bring up slavery just as much if not more than blacks and this moron above my comments proved just that. Mainly comes about because they believe slavery is the only possible issue that people have with whites. News flash for all old and new trolls….it is not.


  490. on Fri 15 Mar 2013 at 22:00:51 slave2222lot231

    Some people know where they’ve been. Then there are those who still can’t tell you where they are going.


  491. @ slave2222lot231

    Ah so now you want to act like you have sense. Shame you could not accomplish that in the beginning.

    “Some people know where they’ve been. Then there are those who still can’t tell you where they are going.”–Sucks to be them.


  492. sometimes, not often, i’d say, but there have been a couple egregious incidents i’ve witnessed, the black americans here in sw philly have been really mean to the africans, which is ironic because woodland ave. down here is like little africa


  493. @ V8driver

    That is not right because frankly they are consider black as well. That is something I don’t get but as a black American I have experienced some mean attitude towards me from other blacks. I just remember and realize that not all are alike. i also have come to realize that Americanized attitudes lead people to believe they are better than others.


  494. @sharina yeah it was some type of superiority thing,


  495. @ Stephanie

    I respect your thoughts and opinion. You acknowledge what many fail to.

    “I found a job at a restaurant, the servers were young, crazy, white, black, and gay- I loved it!!! People need to come together and learn about different cultures.”—I agree. People will be frankly surprised what they learn. I have found what most consider a black thing…most of my white friends actually do. It may just be a country thing.

    “Hey, watcha gunna do later??”–I actually don’t mind this form of speech as it shows character to me. Growing up in the country I hear this type of talk all the time.


  496. Churchs,

    If you scroll up to the original post you’ll see a list of what Abagond claims are examples of “racism against blacks”. If you go through the comments you’ll see I addressed all of them with evidence his allegations were mistaken.

    I see it as as attempt to make it seem like black people who talk about racism against them are just out of their minds. In your first comment, you nitpicked certain things and used information based on those snippets. Then, you went on to rant about how people with “ghetto names” come from ignorant backgrounds. I also see the usual ‘blacks against whites’ paranoia you seem to have. Still, Abagond’s article is no less true. He did plenty of research of his own. There are tons of information to back up this topic. You can’t assume he didn’t simply because you disagree.

    eco,

    It’s amazing that you managed to deny the existence of “racism against whites” and then, two sentences later, delivered an example of a Black racist mindset that supposedly doesn’t exist.

    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”

    You are not really against race-based social advantages. You are not really against racism or inequality. You just wish you could be the advantaged one, that you could be benefiting from racism. You do not want racism, marginalization, scapegoating, dehumanization and discrimination (etc.) to end. You just want the system to favor you. What is that, if not a Black racist mindset?

    P.S. “Theory of alternate dimensions”? Somebody has been learning science from sci-fi movies…

    I see you’re back on this again.

    I won’t deny those comments. However, it is a weak attempt to call me racist by someone who assumes to know what I’m talking about.

    I AM against racism, white privilege and white supremacy. I am against those things because they exist.

    As for my dream of visiting an alternate dimension, are you serious? You really qualifies this as black racism against whites? I said it because I am curious to see how that world would be like. I am curious as to see how it feels to have the same advantages awarded to skin color that is given to whites in today’s society. If that is wrong in your opinion, so be it.

    I’m not going to argue with any of you (Churchs, eco or any of the other individuals) because you made my earlier point crystal clear. You are not here to learn but to criticize. You are not here to think, but to prevent thinking. You are not here to feel because you are against emotions you don’t like.

    If you think I’m being racist against whites, okay. But one thing you can not deny with all the power you have in this world is that racism was never a black creation. My people were not the ones who kidnapped, harmed, raped, murdered, enslaved or oppressed white people. My people didn’t rob them of their histories, cultures, languages and self-respect.

    So, your avoidance and denails of those irrefutable truths alone speak volumes as to the kinds of people you are, and the kind of people I don’t want to deal with on a regular basis.


  497. As a side note, am I the only one who finds it pathetic when white people claim that whenever we discuss racism we are whining. Yet, some will wonder why there isn’t a white history month, WET (White Entertainment Television, NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) or why we have affirmative action which they think is wrong against whites. They own almost all of the media. Their history is the only kind of history that is studied in schools across the country. They are already in most of the top positions in corporations. Still, they believe they are oppressed. To me, that is the definition of whining.


  498. @ brothawolf

    You are not the only one, but like Sondis said…”Hey, sometimes you have to just laugh at these white trolls. lol”

    I don’t think I mind the ones that whine so much as I mind the ones that “know what you are thinking” simply because you are black and don’t agree with them. Or better yet when they assume one to be black because lord knows only blacks disagree with them. Let us not forget those that believe it is ok for them to be racist because they believe you are and feel the same. ok I am ranting a bit here. LOL. but seriously those are the ones that annoy me.


  499. Kwamla,

    People like eco will never learn. He and other trolls are not here to learn, but to aggravate. He tries to put words in my mouths, as he always does, and twists things around to make it seem like I’m the black version of David Duke. At best, that is hilarious. At worst, that is insane.

    When it comes to black people, we are not allowed to feel or think for ourselves. We are expected to feel and think on behalf of whites based on white people’s definitions of what’s normal and reasonable from only their point of view. Couple that with the ongoing obsession with the myth of black inferiority and free-thinking blacks are going to not only be disagreed with, but attacked. To them we are just dangerous to white society as the criminal black man archetype but more dangerous than the CEO’s and crooked politicians, most of whom are white males, who are running societies through the ground for money and power.


  500. Brothawolf:

    No, you are not the only one, that finds it pathetic. White people will deny, their white privilege and racism to their dying day.

    They can’t admit to any of the things, we reveal about them on this blog, because if they did, they would expose themselves for the fakes and frauds they are.

    To admit to such things, would mean that they got to where they are in life, not only by hard work and merit but by a system of white supremacy, that was created for and by white people.

    It would be, wishful thinking at best, to believe that white people would ever admit to their part they played in the state of black people in America.

    Notice, whenever white people mention slavery, its only to point out , “that was 200 years ago” and “you people need to get over it”, as if slavery had no negative, lasting effect on black people in every way to this day.

    Furthermore, they always act as if, racism doesn’t exist anymore, they are saying that, when they proclaim, “slavery was 200 years ago”. Note to white people, when a black person, speaks out against white supremacy, he isn’t talking about, SLAVERY! He’s talking about 2013, not 1913.

    Then again, they wouldn’t know about being oppressed, how would they be able to notice, racism?

    America’s wealth was created by slavery, “over 200 years ago”, that fact is the reason, why America is wealthy, today. Its an insult to tell black people to “get over it” when you benefited from slavery by way of slave money, being passed down from generation to generation.


  501. America’s wealth was created by slavery, “over 200 years ago”, that fact is the reason, why America is wealthy, today. — sondis

    Bullshlt. 90% of American household wealth was created in the last 40 years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphic.png


  502. You might find this as interesting as I did. http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0329-06.htm

    Thanks for the link you provided as well.


  503. Sondis,

    Also notice that slavery is the only form of oppression they mention. They never mention the Black codes, Jim Crow, the War on Drugs or any of the like.

    Churchs,

    You do realize that everytime you fight any claim, record, data or any form of information that supports racism against blacks, you are proving everything that you are running away from the hardcore truth that everything you were taught about America – white America was the biggest and cruelest fraud in history.

    I also suspect your notion that white people are somehow oppressed. Maybe your issue isn’t about whites and more about yourself.


  504. brothawolf, Yes i notice that as well. Churchs and every white person, never touches on anything but slavery and its not in a sympathetic way but a apathetic way.

    I’m not surprised, that he posts some data from a wiki page, to disprove white people’s wealth is a direct result of slavery.

    Sharina, took great delight, in posting a equally profound, article on the subject at hand.

    Churchs, grab your reading glasses…


  505. @Churchs
    You are wrong, yet again!

    @Sondis
    You are right. White America got rich on the backs of Black slaves and stealing Native American land. Why don’t they teach that in schools? Because it will offend many White Americans because the truth hurts. No, I don’t hate Whites, I hate racism!


  506. @BrothaWolf

    ”You do realize that everytime you fight any claim, record, data or any form of information that supports racism against blacks, you are proving everything that you are running away from the hardcore truth that everything you were taught about America – white America was the biggest and cruelest fraud in history.”

    Well said. I agree but I don’t see why White Americans get so defensive and upset about their horrible history with Blacks in this country? After all, it is their ancestors who exploited Blacks and Native Americans in this country’s past. Today’s White Americans don’t have anything to do with the lynchings or Black Codes or Jim Crown however they should acknowledge the fact that the reason the country is the way it is is what happened in the past. America was and still is a racist country.


  507. America has always been racist against Blacks. Since the first thing Blacks got off the slave ship, we went through slavery, de jure and de facto segregation, Jim Crow laws, Black Codes etc. America’s racism is rooted in the fact that Blacks are somehow inferior to their White counterparts and we all know that is NOT true. People are equal in God’s eyes. Many of the Founding Fathers were slave owners and didn’t believe Blacks were equal to Whites. This country was founded on racism and racism is something is that ingrained in the dominant White media culture that says White is Right. I believe racism in this country would go away once Whites acknowledge their subtle and not so subtle racist ways, regret their ancestors’ wicked acts against Blacks and Native Americans and try to change for the better and apologize to Black America for the horrible deeds that they were and STILL ARE doing to Black America and other dark skin people overseas.


  508. @ sharina

    Your link contained empty rhetoric, claims I’ve already disproven in previous discussions with you and other false claims with which I’m already familiar.

    >>

    @ brothawolf

    You do realize that everytime you fight any claim, record, data or any form of information that…

    My proving you wrong proves you’re right? No. It just makes you angry because you lack emotional self control.


  509. @ Churchs

    You have me mistaken with someone else because we have not ever had any discussions about this topic nor have I previously joined in any in regards to this. So basically you are saying because I can’t disprove it I will pretend I did to stop the conversation.


  510. @Sharina
    Don’t mind Churchs.

    You always make good points on this blog!


  511. And as an added reminder. Our last discussion consisted of you telling me I was wrong without you providing any proof to the contrary. In fact I provided the proof in which (like always) you concluded was not good enough because it failed to agree with your side of things.


  512. @ Adeen

    I never do. I just find it funny the things he will say and do to avoid being proven wrong. Last time he changed the context of the subject just so he could be right.


  513. Churchs,

    -That graph you showed only goes back to 1945.
    -It doesn’t illustrate how that wealth is accumulated specifically.

    Plus, is it because I’m black that you’re saying I lack emotional control i.e. I’m the angry black man? Plus, is that video your way of ridiculing me because I must’ve hit something. You have nothing else. So, you turn to insults.

    You’ve already proven that you’re a bigot, but you try to hide it. Now, it seems like you’re getting desperate. And your Looney Tunes video proves it…again.

    Adeen,

    Thanks for your comments.


  514. I think this is the point in which, everyone on this blog, should just begin to ignore churchs, being he has revealed that his sole purpose for being on this blog is to just refute any and everything we say.

    You’re right,brothawolf, he is a bigot and just was pretending to be liberal about things but he could only hide his true intentions, only for so long.

    I for one will not respond to him, directly any longer, being its pointless. He will only post a article, that has a white self-serving point of view, that backs up his opinion, then call anything we post, rhetoric.

    I am 100% positive that if white people could have done it, they would have covered up slavery, then call it, “Rhetoric” whenever a black person, brings it up.

    I’m done with this White racist…..


  515. on Sat 16 Mar 2013 at 04:36:05 King of Trouble.

    @ Church, I think you know most of American wealth came after WWII. Yet if you are looking for the wealth that let us lend to massive foreign aid before that time you will have to look at slavery putting a huge injection into the financial stream. Which means American’s base wealth from 1700’s to the early 1900’s were from agricultural goods, industry was moving up but it still had not supplanted those fields. Not eat least until the great depression. That move a lot of personal wealth but not Governmental wealth. I think you already know this though. You are sighting the change from concentrated agricultural wealth to that of the great build up of cities and industry wealth. Which incidently Britian has finally paid off its WWII debt to us now if they would only pay WWI debt. I also think you know that a lot of personal wealth was made through government loans and incentive programs to colleges and businesses.
    Which gave breathing room for smaller companies and those colleges could fund their science and engineering programs.


  516. @ sharina

    You have me mistaken with someone else because we have not ever had any discussions about this topic nor have I previously joined in any in regards to this.

    That’s possible. I was referring to topics mentioned in your link i.e. mortgage rates, etc. I thought we discussed it but it may have been linda.

    So basically you are saying because I can’t disprove it I will pretend I did to stop the conversation.

    There’s nothing for me to disprove. I provided rock solid evidence based on the fed that 90% of household wealth was created in the last 40 years.

    Our last discussion consisted of you telling me I was wrong without you providing any proof to the contrary.

    I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    If you’ll notice this discussion has veered way off any substantive footing. I linked a graph based on federal reserve numbers. You responded with an article containing unsupported claims. And now we’re not even discussing evidence any more. I have no use for a discussion that isn’t based on evidence. Not to mention the jackals have swooped in to talk trash and “high five” one another.


  517. I just want to say that this commentary is awesome…and Brothawolf! Woooo! Sharina, Kwamla, King…Sondis, the sprouting Adeen! This is the energy and knowledge I wish could be multiplied by 10000000 and placed firmly in the seats of our youth!

    I just love intelligent, passionate exchange! No troll stands a chance past the first 5 posts or so. We know first hand how much the truth hurts. I wouldn’t be adding anything that hasn’t been eloquently and passionately stated, really.

    But I was wondering… ;)

    In all of their (Caucasian) time building this global house of cards, they haven’t really left much else to be passionate about or nationally proud of. You take away the subjugation, criminalization, their relentless mental, emotional and financial investment in “othering” every culture anywhere (in the name of white supremacy and privilege) and what culture, traditions, value system have THEY CREATED that YOU and I can be proud of equally?

    Anybody? Ideas?

    America has been around long enough to value something other than just “stuff” and basking in the innocence of whiteness, right? All this history, technological and medical advancement and how is this info being used?


  518. on Sat 16 Mar 2013 at 05:47:42 slave2222lot231

    Actually they go away and realize that everything they thought was true.


  519. I noticed that we are so busy, fighting off attacks by these racist trolls, like churchs. We have no time for tend to social matters that are important to us.

    I think this is another tactic by white people, to constantly keep us in a state of anger, so we can’t focus on ourselves.

    Watch the clip below, something we should be paying more attention too and supporting.


  520. The movie hasn’t been made, they are trying to raise money to make the movie trailer, a reality. I’ll make a donation, being I would lee to see a movie like this, made. Guys, all the links about the movie is in the about section if this YouTube clip, check it out for more information. ^_^


  521. Churchs,
    no matter what you and I ever discuss, you will always remain a “pro white” race realist to me — you care NOTHING about black or brown people — so as far as I’m concerned, — you are always full of sh’t

    Here is a video of one of your brethren — a shining example of what black and brown people need to see every once in awhile, to remind themselves not to drink too much of the Kool-aide

    because there ARE white Americans masquerading as “politicians” and “concerned citizens” who do want to bring back the good-ole days of Jim Crow.

    “CPAC Participant Defends Slavery at Minority Outreach Panel”

    Excerpt:

    “The exchange occurred after an audience member from North Carolina, 30-year-old Scott Terry, asked whether Republicans could endorse races remaining separate but equal. After the presenter, K. Carl Smith of Frederick Douglass Republicans, answered by referencing a letter by Frederick Douglass forgiving his former master, the audience member said “For what? For feeding him and housing him?” Several people in the audience cheered and applauded Terry’s outburst.

    After the exchange, Terry muttered under his breath, “why can’t we just have segregation?” noting the Constitution’s protections for freedom of association. ”

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/03/15/1729331/cpac-slavery-minority-outreach/?mobile=nc


  522. Churchs,

    If you’ll notice this discussion has veered way off any substantive footing. I linked a graph based on federal reserve numbers. You responded with an article containing unsupported claims. And now we’re not even discussing evidence any more. I have no use for a discussion that isn’t based on evidence. Not to mention the jackals have swooped in to talk trash and “high five” one another.

    Who says those claims are unsupported? You? You says Sharina’s evidence isn’t valid or that she hasn’t provided any? You? If that’s the case, who are you?

    One thing you need to realize is that just because you don’t say it holds any weight doesn’t mean that that’s true, especially when you assume you can pull the wool over her eyes. I think it’s because you think we are not as intelligent as (lol) you. So, you put up anything to support your views even though there is more information than you care to find, certain parts that you conveniently omit and make counterclaims that we are the real racists here.

    Churchs, you have nothing to worry about. Nothing. White people are not victims of the black race, not by a long shot. For some reason, you are scared of losing your little white world, and this blog frightens you because here is where free-thinking black folks, POC and enlightened whites who don’t give a rat’s ass about saving the white power structure no matter what gather and talk. To you that’s a bad sign, a sign you and other people feel the need to take down.

    Seriously, dude. It’s over.


  523. Sondis,

    I saw that before. I uploaded it in my blog somewhere I believe. It is a nice vid.


  524. @ brothawolf

    Who says those claims are unsupported? You?

    The article provided no evidence to support its claims. That’s not my opinion. That’s a fact.

    One thing you need to realize is that just because you don’t say it holds any weight doesn’t mean that that’s true

    You should tell yourselves that. Unlike you all, I don’t ask anyone to take my word for anything. That’s why I provide evidence. What I say means nothing. The evidence I provide means everything.


  525. The article provided no evidence to support its claims. That’s not my opinion. That’s a fact.

    To you it holds no weight because you say it has no evidence. What evidence would make you stop and think as it pertains to this topic? Historical findings, research articles and even personal testimonies won’t do. So, what will?

    You should tell yourselves that. Unlike you all, I don’t ask anyone to take my word for anything. That’s why I provide evidence. What I say means nothing. The evidence I provide means everything.

    And something tells me if we did provide what you refer to as evidence, it would still mean nothing to you.


  526. on Sat 16 Mar 2013 at 13:20:03 King of trouble

    @Ayrton Trnka

    Respect is the first stepping stone to any exchange. It was once said that you should have respect for yourself, your family, friends, enemies, and the very land you stand on. Far too long respect has not been given and that is a shame. I have a healthy respect for all ethnic groups I have taught a lot kids from different ethnic back grounds.
    If you step out of American for a while you actually do see it from a whole different light. One of the biggest things I notice is that abroad people tend to think of Americans like the stereotypes of blacks in America. My family has been American for at least 200 years if not more.
    The more we lose respect for each other the more fragmented our society becomes. If people would stop with the “the only reason you got this job was affirmative action, your ethnic group as the lowest IQ, All you do is complain, and say ok I hear you and we aren’t perfect but we are willing to make steps with you then this could be a great country. Maybe we could see more Native Americans intermingling, or stop trying to box in Asian Americans into having to be the perfect minority, and if we could stop acting if Latin Americans are stealing our jobs maybe just maybe we could start aiming this country to be something.
    Although this is just my opinion it seems that in the last ten years we have definitely started drifting without a rudder. I am naive enough to blame media and entertainment but truely it seems as if our own inability to met each other at eye level is what is going to tear us apart.
    Still, it was said that a man who didn’t respect his enemy would find himself gutted.


  527. @ King of Trouble

    I applaud that response.


  528. @ slave2222lot231

    Actually they lurk in the shadows waiting to make sad comments that they think make them look witty when they really just look stupid because they have no response to counter them. (I am sure it sounds familiar)


  529. @ Churchs

    “There’s nothing for me to disprove. I provided rock solid evidence based on the fed that 90% of household wealth was created in the last 40 years”–I don’t dispute your link, but if you are to provide evidence it would also need to show past 40 years. The only thing your link really attest to is the wealth in the last 40 years and not the wealth made before that. That could be considered a bit deceitful, which you have been in past exchanges with others

    “I don’t know what you’re talking about”–You are free to pretend that you don’t but our first exchange you did not provide any evidence to you stance at all or to refute my stances. It was not until after our exchange and in exchanges with others that you decided to provide links and even in those exchanges I notice a bit of deceit.


  530. @ Legion

    “If you were to say he simply wishes to contradict at every turn, then yes that is annoying and not as elevated as actual refutation.”—This is very true to his nature.


  531. While I do believe Slavery played a large part in the build up of American’s Wealth, I do not hold strong feelings towards it making America a superpower.


  532. As for American wealth and slavery, I think that the impact should not be overlooked or unduly minimized. There are many who never give thought to the impact of generation after generation of free Black American labor and how this benefitted the country economically. This is particularly true when discussing the current social assistance benefits. They are spoken about as if Blacks have not previously made a large and uncompensated contribution to the foundational wealth of the United States.

    However, I also don’t think that it’s a simple formula that slavery = U.S. wealth. The Native Americans also were compelled to give away a lot of prime territory which contributed greatly to the wealth and growth of the U.S. Few people realize how much of our “vast natural resources” were originally on tribal lands. The forced labor of the Chinese on the railroads should also be considered. But there is obviously also room to recognize the contributions of White people who worked and innovated. The point that should be made is that we ALL contributed significantly to the national wealth.

    The problem is that too many Whites want to forget about the sacrificial contributions by many generations of Blacks (both Slavery and Jim Crow) when they start formulating conservative talking points today.


  533. @ King

    You make a very good point. I myself often times forget about the native contribution. Not just lands but their lives as well.


  534. @ Churchs

    “You should tell yourselves that. Unlike you all, I don’t ask anyone to take my word for anything. That’s why I provide evidence. What I say means nothing. The evidence I provide means everything.”–I don’t ask anyone to take my word for anything. In fact I add my own experiences to certain topics and not rely on data because like I said before “people can find data and statistics to support whatever they want.” I don’t really trust them which is why I barely if ever use them. And once again you are trying to reflect your own erratic behavior on to others to make you feel better.

    You have issue. Apparently with blacks, but I hate to burst your bubble and tell you not all of us think alike and not all of us think like you think we should think.


  535. @ Sondis

    I agree and had I posted something that supported his claim he would not worry about any empty rhetoric.


  536. @ brothawolf

    The fact that churchs is denying evidence does not bother or surprise me. He debates to win and not to learn and anytime he gets into one he is losing then he attempts to turn the tables by saying the evidence is not good enough or it is simply not evidence. Our last exchange I provided accounts of individuals as well as Wikipedia sources etc. and he still said it was not good enough. I realized that it was not that the sources were not good enough, but that it did not agree with his point and so he refused to accept them.

    In all honesty he does not debate on honest terms he just plays games. Notice I never attested to the validity of the link, but rather it was interesting and his first action was the refute it. Also notice he has no evidence to refute it and has yet to provide one other than the Wikipedia link that only shows wealth patterns for 40 years. If he truly had something he would have more links to refute with. you have to laugh at that.


  537. @ Sugarkiss

    Thank you.:) I agree with what you are saying and frankly I don’t think their is anything that this country offers that anyone can or should be proud of.

    One thing I admired about other countries is they still have their cultures and traditions wrapped into modern society. In the US if you bring any of that here you are considered weird or in the case of Muslims…the terrorist.


  538. @ brothawolf

    To you it holds no weight because you say it has no evidence.

    Once again, the article provided no evidence. That’s not my opinion. That’s a fact.

    >>

    What evidence would make you stop and think as it pertains to this topic?

    Now, that’s an excellent question. I’m not an expert on evidence but there are different kinds of evidence and different ways of determining whether or not each is valid. There’s empirical evidence, rational evidence, memory, testimony, etc. And I’d probably rank them in that order. This is complicated because empirical evidence could be based on inaccurate or “fudged” data, rational evidence could be based on flawed reasoning, memory could be faulty and, of course, testimony could be suborned. There are lots of ways and reasons evidence can be invalid.

    So how does one really know whether evidence is valid? First, I think intelligence plays a role. Intelligence really is the ability to figure things out and get sh1t done. If you see someone who is able to figure out very complicated puzzles. problems, etc then it’s likely, though by no means guaranteed, they can bring this same level of problem solving to real world questions. I certainly wouldn’t assume someone is right because they’re smart. Being right depends on the evidence and not the intelligence. It’s just that, all things being equal, a smart person is more likely to be able to figure out what’s “right’. But that only goes so far. For example, I’m probably more likely to solve a 3rd order partial differential equation than you but I’m sure you can add and subtract just as good as anyone. Then, again, it’s been a long time since I’ve solved a 3rd order partial differential equation so maybe not.

    Basically, you have to look at the “preponderance of the evidence” as Perry Mason would say. Does it all match up? Does it agree with everything else we know about the known world? For example, is it more likely that a top secret team of archeologists has spent the last few hundred years secretly traveling the world burying fake fossils in remote and unknown locations in hopes that other archeologists would one day dig them up and conclude evolution has occurred? Or is it more likely that dinosaurs simply existed millions of years ago? Is it more likely that extraterrestrial intelligences built space ships to travel millions of light years just so they could abduct someone and stick a probe up their anus? Or is it more likely that “alien abductees” are just batsh1t crazy? Well, the former may not be impossible but I think the latter options are just much more likely.

    Similarly, is it more likely the federal reserve engaged in a massive conspiracy beginning in 1945 to “cook the books” so that 70 years later I could use their data to prove that 90% of US household income was created in the last 40 years? Or is it more likely they simply recorded the data every year and the US household incomes grew due to higher productivity from improved technology. Well, I can’t prove the first one didn’t happen. I just think the second is much more likely.


  539. Our last exchange I provided accounts of individuals as well as Wikipedia sources etc. and he still said it was not good enough. — sharina

    Once again, I have no idea what you’re talking about.


  540. @ Churchs

    And you are free to pretend like you don’t but I am sure if anyone in here wanted to find and look at it then they can cause it is still up and available.


  541. Oh for Pete’s sakes Church’s, you can’t even clearly reason through what evidence is or is not.

    Evidence has nothing at all to do with intelligence. Intelligence may effect how a person views evidence, but evidence itself is either accusative or exculpatory on it’s own merits.


  542. @ king

    I didn’t say evidence was based on intelligence. I said, all things being equal, someone who is more intelligent is more likely to determine whether the evidence is valid. I probably should have made that more clear to you by typing it in ebonics.

    >>

    @ sharina

    If you told me what you’re talking about I might remember it. Otherwise, I have no idea what you’re talking about and I don’t think anyone else does, either.


  543. Ha! You might have made it more clear by typing it in english, you pretentious dunce!! But it really depends on what kind of evidence you’re talking about. Most evidence is fairly clear to most people. The real problem is bias, not intelligence.


  544. @ Churchs

    Did you not read the part where I said “you are free to pretend you don’t. ” Maybe I should have stated “if you don’t remember then so be it because if anyone wanted to see that exchange then they could.” In short. If you don’t remember then you don’t so move on. Just because I remember and bring it up to someone else does not mean you have to comment on it.


  545. “…When it comes to black people, we are not allowed to feel or think for ourselves. We are expected to feel and think on behalf of whites based on white people’s definitions of what’s normal and reasonable from only their point of view. Couple that with the ongoing obsession with the myth of black inferiority and free-thinking blacks are going to not only be disagreed with, but attacked. To them we are just dangerous to white society as the criminal black man archetype but more dangerous than the CEO’s and crooked politicians, most of whom are white males, who are running societies through the ground for money and power…”

    Couldn’t agree more with this……brothawolf

    WHY is it?..

    Just following on from this point. Why do we never get white trolls complaining to abagond or people on this blog about the excess of these “…CEO’s and crooked politicians, most of whom are white males, who are running societies through the ground for money and power….”

    Why is it that people like Churchs never moan or complain about things like these to Black people on this blog? Why is that…?

    ….And following on from another comment made earlier by SugarKiss:

    But I was wondering… ;)

    In all of their (Caucasian) time building this global house of cards, they haven’t really left much else to be passionate about or nationally proud of. You take away the subjugation, criminalization, their relentless mental, emotional and financial investment in “othering” every culture anywhere (in the name of white supremacy and privilege) and what culture, traditions, value system have THEY CREATED that YOU and I can be proud of equally?

    What does White America TRULY have to proud of after all of this excess?

    If Churchs or if anyone else feels strongly informed enough to speak on this topic I would REALLY love to know more!

    Two quite simple questions really…


  546. Why do we never get white trolls complaining to abagond or people on this blog about the excess of these “…CEO’s and crooked politicians, most of whom are white males, who are running societies through the ground for money and power….”

    Damn that Jeff Bezos and his online auctions!
    Damn that Bill Gates and his Microsoft Windows!
    Damn that Sam Walton and his everyday low prices!

    Damn them all to HELL !!!

    Are you happy now?


  547. Nope and I think you know why……..maybe not.


  548. No!!

    More damning of Bill Gates is needed!!!!!


  549. @kwamia

    I did earlier check out my posts. In fact I think they are the cause for all the disparity i this country. It saddens my heart that they are playing us against each other.


  550. The foundation of America is messed up. It doesn’t matter how you paint the house it is still a raggedy house. America is the raggedy house. America was founded on racism. It will not end until the foundation is thrown out. With that being said, In 50 years or more will these discussion we are having on this blog be obsolete? Or will there be a new world and a new society free of racism and bigotry?


  551. Dman is correct. He did mention it and deserves credit for that.


  552. I don’t think I will argue with Churchs anymore, not because he won any arguments. It’s because sometimes it’s best to know when some minds will not learn, especially if the teachers are the people he obviously has a major problem with.

    Besides, I think you struck a nerve with Churchs with acknowledging CEOs and politicians who’s actions and interest contribute a major part in the disparities we see today. But it reminds me that most whites who are not as powerful and privileged will still align themselves with those people, even though the rich and powerful (mostly) white men could truly care less about them.

    Whites are duped into thinking that white people are, by default, trustworthy, honest and caring to a fault. That’s not to say they are anything but. However, those at the top, or on their way, could care less about whites who are not as powerful or privileged as they are. They could use them or step on them while climbing the social ladder.

    In short white people are suckered by more powerful whites into thinking that the enemy is us and not their users.

    King of Trouble,

    Excellent response. That is what many people need to realize especially if you believe you are a good and honest person.


  553. @BrothaWolf
    So true. That is why many of these people you are talking about voted for Republican candidates in the last election because they felt that the Black man in office, President Obama was a threat. These people vote against their own self interests all the time without realizing it.

    @Mary Burrell
    Yes this country was definitely founded on racism and I have been saying this forever on this blog site! Racism is very ingrained in the country.


  554. @King

    “Actually the theory of ‘multiple dimensions,’ probably better expressed as ‘alternate’ or ‘hidden’ dimensions, is a viable and current scientific theory.”

    I know of theories that use more than 3 dimensions, but the “theory of alternate/hidden dimensions”? Do you mean M-theory?
    Anyway, I was poking fun at the fact that he uses the term “dimension” as if it meant a universe with planets, life forms, etc.. That’s how it’s often used in sci-fi. In real science dimensions are much less exciting.
    Something similar happened to ‘dark matter’ which can also mean all kinds of magical things in sci-fi.

    @Kwamla

    “Where in what Brothawolf says does he wish for a dominant Black run world to negatively oppress or subjugate white people? – What you are calling Black racism?”

    He said he wants to have the social advantages racism gives to white people. He explicitly used the word “advantage”, so (clearly) he does not wish for equality. You can’t have a race-based social advantage without someone being disadvantages thus he is wishing for a world where other races are unfairly disadvantaged.

    “What you are sub-consciously inferring and projecting is that a dominant superpower located in Africa and other African colonized nations would behave in EXACTLY the same way current European, American and Western nations do totay? ”

    I haven’t said it’s an exact reversal of roles. You are constructing a straw man based on what you believe I think. I do not know if he wishes for the roles to completely switch in every aspect, but he clearly wishes for race-based inequality. I think wishing for subtle racism is enough for my point to work.

    @Legion

    Did you read my reply to King? It’s about the term “dimension”, not about the multiverse hypothesis.

    @brothawolf

    “I AM against racism, white privilege and white supremacy. I am against those things because they exist.”

    But a world where inequality exists to favor you, that is something you wish for.
    That’s why I think it’s clear that you are only against the forms of racism you are not benefiting from. The concept, of an unjust race-based system of advantages, is fine as long as it places you on top.

    I’ll use this quote again:
    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”
    It’s fascinating to watch you try to escape from the fact that you clearly said you would like to have the unjust advantages white people have over other races.


  555. @ eco

    I know of theories that use more than 3 dimensions, but the “theory of alternate/hidden dimensions?”

    Yes, I was referring to dimensions that are not readily apparent beyond the foundational 3, depending on the theory. M-theory is one, String theory also allows for it. Most of the evidence is at the quantum particle level, however the discovery of “dark matter” is another variable in the theory of “hidden” dimensions.

    I am not referring to Multiverse theory or other related theories in which a “dimension” includes a separate or linked reality.


  556. @ eco

    Isn’t it time you gave up and just conceded you got this wrong!

    “…I’ll use this quote again:
    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”
    It’s fascinating to watch you try to escape from the fact that you clearly said you would like to have the unjust advantages white people have over other races…”

    Social advantages like: access to better jobs; better housing; the best schools; the best shopping facilities; best neighborhoods; most prestigious awards offered in Arts, Science, Culture; best screen play and roles in Hollywood films etc..etc…

    In order to have these social advantages. YOU are clearly stating what YOU believe. That white Americans would have to give up access to these privileges? But would this really be so?

    Eco you habitually contradict yourself in your own statements:

    “…I haven’t said it’s an exact reversal of roles. You are constructing a straw man based on what you believe I think. I do not know if he wishes for the roles to completely switch in every aspect, but he clearly wishes for race-based inequality. I think wishing for subtle racism is enough for my point to work…”

    Where is the straw man argument if YOU SAY he clearly wishes for race based inequality? How is this NOT based on a complete reversal of roles: Black advantaged/White disadvantaged?

    Why is it you are unable to conceive of an environment or social system where both white and Black Americans have EQUAL access to the same social advantages? Or do you believe it can only be Black or white? Either or but not both…?

    This is your own deeply embedded, entrenched racism coming out again. Which you are refusing to take responsibility for and instead projecting it out onto others.

    You believe most Black Americans wish to be socially advantaged over white Americans in the specific ways I’ve just described.

    I wonder how many African-Americans you’ve actually spoken to who have told you this?

    Also….
    “…Anyway, I was poking fun at the fact that he uses the term “dimension” as if it meant a universe with planets, life forms, etc.. That’s how it’s often used in sci-fi. In real science dimensions are much less exciting…”

    Brothawolf’s use of the term dimension here is quite legitimate as it could just as well refer to another parallel alternate universe or Earth.

    Conventional science no more understands alternate dimensions or multiple universes any more than you or I do. It simply puts forward hypothetical mathematical based models then looks for the evidence to confirm them. This is why they call it a theory…!


  557. @Kwamla

    “In order to have these social advantages. YOU are clearly stating what YOU believe. That white Americans would have to give up access to these privileges? But would this really be so?”

    No, this is not about what I believe. It’s a clear conclusion based on the words he used. He said he would like to be “advantaged”. Advantages exist when things are not equal.

    “Where is the straw man argument if YOU SAY he clearly wishes for race based inequality? How is this NOT based on a complete reversal of roles: Black advantaged/White disadvantaged?”

    I do not know how similar to reality brothawolf’s dream world is, so I can’t say it’s a complete reversal. Maybe in his fantasy land white people are only considered dumb, but were never enslaved?
    You said:
    “What you are sub-consciously inferring and projecting is that a dominant superpower located in Africa and other African colonized nations would behave in EXACTLY the same way current European, American and Western nations do totay?”
    I wasn’t suggesting that at all. He said he would like to have a race-based social advantage. Who cares how it was obtained (how African nations behaved)? Maybe in his dream world racism is more subtle than in reality, but it’s still racism.

    “Why is it you are unable to conceive of an environment or social system where both white and Black Americans have EQUAL access to the same social advantages?”

    Because that’s an obvious contradiction. If things are equal than nobody is advantaged. If advantages exist then people are not equal. There are no rich people when everyone has the same amount of wealth.

    The existence of an advantage implies inequality.

    “You believe most Black Americans wish to be socially advantaged over white Americans in the specific ways I’ve just described.”

    Straw man. I’m talking precisely about brothawolf based on his exact words. I haven’t said anything that could possibly imply other people have his mindset.

    “Conventional science no more understands alternate dimensions or multiple universes any more than you or I do.”

    “Conventional science”? You mean “real science”? I do not care what the guy who believes in a ton of new-agey BS and aliens thinks about it.


  558. @ Eco

    “There are no rich people when everyone has the same amount of wealth”–I don’t think Kwamla is talking in terms of wealth when he mentions social advantages.


  559. eco

    But a world where inequality exists to favor you, that is something you wish for. That’s why I think it’s clear that you are only against the forms of racism you are not benefiting from. The concept, of an unjust race-based system of advantages, is fine as long as it places you on top.

    It is not an either-or thing with me eco. And once again, you’re making assumptions trying to show that I’m a racist. I already admitted that I am a racist. I did wish for a parallel universe where the superpowers were in Africa. But, one thing I do know is that I didn’t make this wish for no sound reason.

    As always, you always point out examples of black people being racist against whites. Yet, you continue to ignore why or try to understand why. Instead, you conclude that it is just as bad as white racism. At times I think you believe black racism is worse than white racism as you constantly leech on my comments and say nothing to white racist comments.

    I’ll use this quote again:
    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”
    It’s fascinating to watch you try to escape from the fact that you clearly said you would like to have the unjust advantages white people have over other races.

    I’m not trying to escape from anything. I’ve been upfront. I’ve not denied anything I’ve said. So, please stop saying that I do.

    I don’t know what it is you’re trying to prove here, especially when it comes to my comments. But you seem to not let go of the notion of black racism while you give white supremacy is subtle pass in this blog. Unless, you can prove me wrong about the latter.

    Above all else, what’s wrong with walking into a store without being suspected of shoplifting or robbing the place? What’s wrong with walking down the street and not have white women clutch onto their purses when they see me out of the fear that I may rob or rape them? What’s wrong with driving on any given street without being stopped by the police for being suspected for having drugs and gun because I “look” like a suspect? On that same note, what’s wrong about not worrying about being physically brutalized, or even murdered, by the police? What’s wrong with seeing more balanced representations of people who look like you in the media?


  560. @Sharina

    It’s an analogy. I didn’t explicitly point that out, but I meant to say that being rich is like being advantaged.

    @brothawolf

    “It is not an either-or thing with me eco.”

    Prove it. How can you have race-based social advantages and equality at the same time? And if you do see race-based social advantages as positive when they favor you then how are you not against racism only as long as it’s working against you?
    I see you took Kwamla’s approach and chose to play dumb, to pretend that being advantaged doesn’t imply someone else is disadvantaged.

    “I’m not trying to escape from anything.”

    Sure you are. You did it in the very first sentence of your comment.

    “I already admitted that I am a racist.”

    Based on the fact that you are defensive instead of admitting that I have a point, I think it’s obvious that either you are being dishonest when you call yourself ‘racist’ or you don’t see yourself as being racist in this particular way. Either way there is clearly something about my point you do not like to hear.

    I’m not going to address the rest of your comment, because it’s filled with your favorite derailing tactics. Let’s call them ‘you have a personal grudge’, ‘you think Black racism is as bad as white racism’ and ‘why can’t I get away with saying that, I’m a victim of racism’.


  561. @Legion

    “there is no reply to king on multiverse theory from you.”

    I did mean King. My reply to him is in the beginning of the comment you quoted:
    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-165053

    I wanted to clarify, that I do not have a problem with the multiverse hypothesis, but I do think talking about ‘alternative dimensions’ as if that meant other universes with planets and life forms,etc. has little to do with science and IMO is mainly an influence of sci-fi.


  562. eco,

    Prove it. How can you have race-based social advantages and equality at the same time? And if you do see race-based social advantages as positive when they favor you then how are you not against racism only as long as it’s working against you?
    I see you took Kwamla’s approach and chose to play dumb, to pretend that being advantaged doesn’t imply someone else is disadvantaged.

    I meant that I don’t believe in the type of thinking you. Yes. I do believe that if one group is advantaged, there has to be a disadvantaged.

    Let me explain what I meant about my dimensional comment earlier seeing as how you’re hooked on it. I said i would love to VISIT such a world. I DID NOT say that I wanted to live in such a world. I wanted to see how it would be, and I can only guess how it would be like.

    You continuously assume that me using that statement means that I am a black racist or black supremacist. To you that is wrong. Yet, I haven’t seen you be as vocal to white supremacy which is the core cause of today’s inequalities. If you did, you would not be surprised or outraged if you hear blacks say similar or more extreme statements.

    “I’m not trying to escape from anything.”

    Sure you are. You did it in the very first sentence of your comment.

    Whatever you want to believe, eco. I know that I’m not hiding anything. It could be a case of you ignoring.

    Based on the fact that you are defensive instead of admitting that I have a point, I think it’s obvious that either you are being dishonest when you call yourself ‘racist’ or you don’t see yourself as being racist in this particular way. Either way there is clearly something about my point you do not like to hear.

    I’m not going to address the rest of your comment, because it’s filled with your favorite derailing tactics. Let’s call them ‘you have a personal grudge’, ‘you think Black racism is as bad as white racism’ and ‘why can’t I get away with saying that, I’m a victim of racism’.

    Okay, eco. I’m seriously tired of this. You want to talk about points that are unplesant, you need to stop and address that point yourself. I’ve made points that apparently you hate, and you are on this mission to try to discount anything I say or portray me as some racist with seering hatred for white people. What is the point in that? To make yourself appear intelligent with a much higher moral ground than me? What is your deal, eco?

    I’ve explained myself as hard as I could. I don’t know why you want to keep going on. If you want to paint me as a black supremacist, fine. If you want to think I’m as bad as a white racist, fine. But, continuous this pointless argument is nonsense on your part, especially when you try to bring up the same points over and over again as if you have no idea what I’m talking about. By doing so, you’re making yourself look slow, not cunning.

    Frankly, I’m done with this. But that doesn’t mean you’ve won or that your points hold any water. I’ll let you continue to ASSUME you know what I’m saying while you hunt down any and all examples of black racism way more than you do white racism. In the end you’re just helping to prove that many white people are hellbent to capture any moment of suspected racism against whites by blacks.


  563. I think what he is trying to say is that it doesn’t matter who the majority is, there will always be an imbalance. It just so happens that white persons, for the moment, make up the majority of the population in America. When Latinos become the majority, what will be your viewpoint then. Will you claim Latino supremacy? Is it skin color or culture that is the deciding factor?

    For me personally, I do believe there is racism. However, I don’t think there is this white conspiracy that gives some sort of advantage. There is no culture on earth that lives in a utopia where everyone is equal. Even in Africa, there are those in charge (leaders) that obtain an unequal share of the resources. Even the ancient Egyptians had white slaves. From my viewpoint, personally, the inequality naturally arises from the dominant group.

    Now, we could go into a political argument here. Republic versus democracy. In a true democracy (not in America), the majority would be even more oppressive. Got to go to school. Love and peace.


  564. @ Dman

    Word of advice. Stay out of that argument, because it really has nothing to do with what you think it does. Eco has a long standing issue with brothawolf and thus takes issue with anything he says. A lot of times he just makes up an issue and rambles on about how it is irrational etc. Even after Brothawolf goes on explaining in detail what he means.

    Inequity does arise but should it be based on the color of some persons skin? Does the color of a persons skin hold merit to who they are and what they can accomplish? In my book it does not.

    “However, I don’t think there is this white conspiracy that gives some sort of advantage”–Then explain to me why our American history books to do portray black inventors but just white ones. If things were as they should be this type of information would be basic to American history and knowledge. Along with other information regarding people of color that has failed to even be known by most whites simply because it is not an all praise to white people.

    I will go into more detail when I have more time.


  565. @ eco

    Sharina

    @ Eco

    “There are no rich people when everyone has the same amount of wealth”–I don’t think Kwamla is talking in terms of wealth when he mentions social advantages.

    How is it that other people understand this and you don’t?

    I defined clearly for you what I Meant (and what I interpreted from brothawolf’s comments) by social advantages. Here it is again:

    “…Social advantages like: access to better jobs; better housing; the best schools; the best shopping facilities; best neighborhoods; most prestigious awards offered in Arts, Science, Culture; best screen play and roles in Hollywood films etc..etc…”

    Yet you still prefer to PROJECT your own interpretation into the debate to prop up your own racist logic.

    “…Because that’s an obvious contradiction. If things are equal than nobody is advantaged. If advantages exist then people are not equal. There are no rich people when everyone has the same amount of wealth.

    The existence of an advantage implies inequality…

    Now here is the thing…Wealth disparity between Black and white Americans could be added to that list of social advantages but we all know it isn’t the ONLY or ultimate deciding factor for measuring social advantage. There are many African-Americans presently who are wealthy millionaires but does it logically follow from this factor alone that they have ALL of the social advantages white Americans (poor and wealthy) have?

    Do you see this eco? Can you see where you’re own PROJECTED interpretation of social advantage simply in terms of wealth falls short?

    I do find it most interesting that you now seem to want to use the SAME LOGIC in your own arguments that I’ve repeatedly used to explain to you about the disparity caused by the instigation of Racism…Do you remember this detailed series of explanations I gave to you by any chance?

    You said, to repeat: “… The existence of an advantage implies inequality…”

    This is true. And I (you may be surprised to know) don’t disagree with that. If there were no social advantages then YES we would all be EQUALLY advantaged. Which would cancel out the idea of any perceived advantage. And this would be particularly in some of the social areas I have already mentioned besides wealth.

    But is this not also the same case in the application of racism: white supremacy?

    Here it is again and for anyone else just to remind you. How you define racism shapes and determines how it is applied:

    The very notion of the possibility there is Racism sets up an imbalance, a disparity, an inequality. If such an unequal reality exists then FROM THE START it has already created an imbalance in the perceptions and realities of peoples: African, Asian, Europeon, etc..

    Therefore each groups responses are already pre-determined according to this disparity. Just to put this in clearer perspective. The perception or reality of racism needs a dislocation, an INEQUALITY, Otherwise it can’t be viewed. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE!

    Equally. You can not look at the RESPONSES to Racism by different groups as if it was a level playing field (ITS NOT) and categorize the responses as similar. (THEY ARE NOT)

    So. If MOST white people are racist then that means MOST Black people are responding to that Racism.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/all-blacks-are-racist/#comment-77767

    You should recognise in this eco…

    I am using the same logic in my argument to account for the advantages and dis-advantages AUTOMATICALLY set in place when racism: white superiority/Black & non-white inferiority is acknowledged and accepted as TRUE.

    You said, to repeat once again: “… The existence of an advantage implies inequality…”

    And I have repeatedly said to YOU: The installed unchallenged perception of white superiority (racism) implies Black inferiority

    And it is this embedded assumption (false or otherwise) that leads to and creates inequalities. This is the same logic eco.!!!

    “…I see you took Kwamla’s approach and chose to play dumb, to pretend that being advantaged doesn’t imply someone else is disadvantaged…”

    Perhaps you too would care not to choose to play dumb AGAIN and pretend that white people being racist doesn’t imply Black people can be racist too!.

    Logically this is not a two-way street. It is a one way street. Unless the signs are purposefully changed the other way round!

    Let me remind you once again of what you said to me in response to my question:

    “…“Why is it you are unable to conceive of an environment or social system where both white and Black Americans have EQUAL access to the same social advantages?…”

    “…Because that’s an obvious contradiction. If things are equal than nobody is advantaged. If advantages exist then people are not equal. There are no rich people when everyone has the same amount of wealth.

    The existence of an advantage implies inequality…”

    In other words, if everyone can be racist then WHO actually is being racist?

    Yet you would persist with the, IMO, contradictory notion that white and Black people can both be racist at the same time? When clearly these are two very different phenomena at play.

    My suggestion to you eco would be to concentrate more on trying to remove the deeply embedded log in your own eye rather than attempting to point out the possible splinter lodged in brothawolf’s eye.


  566. @ eco

    One last thing…

    “…“Conventional science”? You mean “real science”? I do not care what the guy who believes in a ton of new-agey BS and aliens thinks about it…”

    Conventional Science found in text books and taught in many classrooms is on a par with being as up-to-date in its thinking and approach as Newtonian Physics was with Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. Both areas of science that can be used to generate practical results and descriptions of the world we experience around us. But one of them is fundamentally flawed. However, you would never know this unless you allowed yourself to explore other areas.

    What you attempt to ridicule are areas of science for which “conventional science” has no explanation. Just like Newtonian science has no explanation for things taking place on the Quantum or micro level.

    You may choose to bask in the wisdom of conventional “Newtonian” science I prefer to explore other areas in which I KNOW the REAL science lies.

    The irony is even Sir Issac Newton was fascinated by the Occult and mysticism.


  567. @ Churchs

    You are arguing in bad faith.

    First you act like you understand economics:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/if-it-were-the-other-way-round/#comment-164089

    And then give us this chart:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphic.png

    and say of it:

    “There’s nothing for me to disprove. I provided rock solid evidence based on the fed that 90% of household wealth was created in the last 40 years.”

    Calling it “rock solid”.

    Come on.

    Either you do not know economics or you know full well that most of that 90% is due to inflation, not real wealth. Either way you are not being serious but just playing games, as others have pointed out.


  568. @Legion
    No, I don’t mind being called a little flame at all(I actually find it funny ) but this country was founded on racism. Our ”Founding Fathers” killed Native Americans for this land and enslaved Blacks and profited from exploiting Black slave labor. Most of these men we call our Founding Fathers believed that Blacks weren’t equal to Whites intellectual wise and saw them as subhuman. In the Constitution, Black slaves were considered 3/5 human. I can’t deny that neither can you. It is the truth. Racism is so ingrained in this nation and culture that I think it will take another two hundred and something years before we can completely get rid of racism in this culture and society for good.

    I am not against White people but if you are White American, you have to realize you will never see things the way I see them.

    I have to go through being stereotyped and racially profiled every step of my life because I am a Black American female of Jamaican descent. Many people look down on Blacks. If you are White, you don’t have to deal with that. You don’t have to deal with being racially profiled or stereotyped or people looking down on you. You don’t ever have to deal with the police following you in the stores or public places or old women holding onto their purses when you walk near them.

    In fact, I just hate racism and want racism to be gone from this society for good but how am I supposed to think when America still feels that I am not as good, pretty or smart as a blond hair, blue eyed White girl of the same age? I think I am just as pretty and smart as other races of women but in White America’s eyes, I will never measure up.

    Yes America has progressed a lot during race relations but we, as a nation, have a long way to go before we can truly become a nation where we can judge people based on their actions not on their skin color, ethnicity or nationality.


  569. @ abagond

    The graph doesn’t say whether the dollars have been inflation adjusted. I checked the original Fed data tables and didn’t see where it says whether the dollars are adjusted, either. That usually means they haven’t. So let’s assume the values haven’t been adjusted and adjust them.

    In my previous comment the numbers came from eyeballing the graph. For the sake of accuracy, I’ll now get the actual numbers from the Fed’s data tables. Numbers include total assets — non financial as well as financial.

    Year____Fincl__NonFincl___Total___2012$____2012%
    1945_____559____181______740____9315_____11%
    1952_____832____463_____1295___11050_____13%
    1962____1540____802_____2342___17537_____22%
    1972____3231____1710_____4941__26746_____33%
    2012___54390___25154____79544

    In billions of dollars
    2012$ = Inflation adjusted to 2012 dollars
    2012% = Percentage of 2012 household wealth

    So 2/3 of household wealth has still been created in the last 40 years. And nearly 90% of household wealth has been created since 1945. My original point remains valid.


  570. Ok so here is a question? What was the income or wealth when this country was started? And how did it change from the beginning of slavery to the end? This is a major question that has failed to be addressed. Churchs would have you focus on a graph that begins in 1945 and ends in 2009 instead of focusing on information regarding the time periods we are referring to. The comment in issue is “America’s wealth was created by slavery, “over 200 years ago”, that fact is the reason, why America is wealthy, today. — sondis” We would first need to see what wealth was like before slavery, during, and after. This is a better way to assess whether or not slavery contributed to America’s wealth or not.


  571. Sharina,

    That makes sense to me. Like I pointed out in the chart, it only displayed data since 1945 and not before. That’s why it seemed like Churchs is desperate as hell to disprove slavery had anything to do with America’s wealth. If he needs to make a convincing argument and present some information that confirms the entirety of his argument that slavery was no contribution to America’s wealth, he has to do way better than just a Wikipedia graph of the last fifty or so years.


  572. Adeen:

    I agree with your statements about America, being founded on racism.

    The founding fathers of America, used religion and Eugenics as an excuse to justify, slavery.

    Here is a documentary on Eugenics, if you haven’t seen it yet, Adeen.


  573. @Sondis
    Good video and I agree. I don’t see why so many White Americans get so defensive about the truth. America was founded on lies, theft, racism and slavery. The Founding Fathers were crooks who benefitted from the labor of imported African slaves and killed Native Americans for their land. I don’t see why they can’t accept it as it is. Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner and never believe in racial equality. He never believed all men were created equal. When he wrote that all men were created equal, he meant all White males who owned property not Blacks, Native Americans or women.

    @Legion
    Read my previous comments. What I said was NOT a blanket statement. America was founded on racism. It is the truth and accept it.


  574. @ Brothawolf

    You bringing it up was the primary reason I questioned him. That and the fact that I have noticed that he can be quite deceitful at times.


  575. My brotha, Roland Martin, breaks it down.

    WASHINGTON WATCH: Wealth Gap Between Blacks And Whites Has Tripled


  576. Sharina,

    Yeah. Churchs thought he was slick, but he hates it when we catch him red-handed.


  577. Church’s was a nasty sac of pus. glad he is banned. But he will be back in the orm of a sock puppet.


  578. @ Mary Burrell

    He was banned? Why and when?


  579. @Legion
    I wasn’t trying to be rude at all. Or a know it all.


  580. @ Sharina….. Church’s was banned because he was using a word he was not supposed to use that Abagond did’nt want him to use. And he was getting into it with Abagond and being a jerk. So I guess Abagond banned him. After so many rude comments.


  581. @ Sharina….. See Kimani Gray thread. You will see the banning of church’s.


  582. @Legion
    why so coy ,why don’t just say what that is.
    “The racism is a major factor. But it isn’t all.”
    whats the rest? ,by the way it had better be good cause ,kidnapping,rape,murder,enslavement – wholesale – invalidates anything and everything else from my understanding.

    Or you and anyone else can signup to have themselves removed from land their families have lived on for generations,have some raped,murdered etc
    and I’ll tell your descendents it was all for the greater good of me and mine,now take these crumbs off my table and quite whining .


  583. @brothawolf

    “Let me explain what I meant about my dimensional comment earlier seeing as how you’re hooked on it. I said i would love to VISIT such a world. I DID NOT say that I wanted to live in such a world. I wanted to see how it would be, and I can only guess how it would be like.”

    I focused on the comment where you said:
    “I don’t hate white people. However, I am sick and tired of them having social advantages I wish I had.”
    I only used the “dimensional” comment to strengthen my point, to show that this wasn’t some mistake, bad phrasing. You do see racial-based social advantages as something positive when they benefit you.

    “I’ve made points that apparently you hate, and you are on this mission to try to discount anything I say or portray me as some racist with seering hatred for white people.”

    This isn’t about you making points I do not like to hear. I simply exposed hypocrisy. I do not have to portray you as a racist. You are doing that one on your own. I only point it out.

    @Kwamla

    “Can you see where you’re own PROJECTED interpretation of social advantage simply in terms of wealth falls short?”

    I explicitly said I used wealth as an analogy, I did not equate it with race-based social advantages.

    “I do find it most interesting that you now seem to want to use the SAME LOGIC in your own arguments that I’ve repeatedly used to explain to you about the disparity caused by the instigation of Racism…”

    It doesn’t look like the same reasoning to me. You are saying that victims of racism can’t be racist. Right? I’ve never said that people who are disadvantaged can’t be advantaged. I think it depends on the situation, on the context.
    I can be less advantaged than someone but still be more advantaged than someone else (“In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king”). Being disadvantages in one context doesn’t mean I can’t be advantaged in another one. You are saying that victims of racism can’t be racist, aren’t you? So we are not using the same reasoning.

    “In other words, if everyone can be racist then WHO actually is being racist?”

    Depends on the situation.

    And about that ‘conventional science’ (a.k.a. ‘science’) thing:

    “The irony is even Sir Issac Newton was fascinated by the Occult and mysticism.”

    Yeah, because he lived in the 17th century.


  584. @ eco

    How are you making any point with brothawolf when he already stated clear as day that he is a racist? Honestly you are starting to sound like a loon when it comes to him. You have an obsessive nature with him that frankly is not remotely healthy, but creepy on a whole new level. You can say all day and night he is illogical or irrational or whatever excuse you make up, but bottom line is I have seen equally irrational crap and you tend to not say a peep to any of the others. You harbor too many personal issue with certain individuals and just derail topics with pointless psycho babble about how “you proved them wrong or caught them.” When in fact you proved nothing that they have not made clear already. Then when you don’t have solid proof you take ridiculous statements he made and then read too much into them implying what you believe to be true about them.

    You read too much into what he says. Let it go. Is it really that serious?


  585. @Sharina

    “How are you making any point with brothawolf when he already stated clear as day that he is a racist?”

    He also said: “you are on this mission to try to discount anything I say or portray me as some racist with seering hatred for white people.” So in that latter comment he seems to be rejecting the ‘racist’ label. Anyway, I’m accusing him of something much more specific and he is disagreeing with me. Since we are not agreeing there is clearly something worth talking about.

    “you are starting to sound like a loon when it comes to him. You have an obsessive nature with him that frankly is not remotely healthy, but creepy on a whole new level”

    How many of my discussions with brothawolf can you recall? I’m obviously asking about the ones I started, not the ones when he addressed me first.

    “You harbor too many personal issue with certain individuals and just derail topics with pointless psycho babble about how “you proved them wrong or caught them.” When in fact you proved nothing that they have not made clear already.”

    “Individuals”, “topics”, “they” – all plurals. Can you give specific examples of me doing the things you are accusing me of? I’m sure you are not just making sh*t up to defend a commenter you like against one you do not like.

    “Is it really that serious?”

    No, but interesting? Yes.


  586. @ Eco

    “How many of my discussions with brothawolf can you recall? I’m obviously asking about the ones I started, not the ones when he addressed me first.”–Besides this one only one other and each are along the same lines.

    ““Individuals”, “topics”, “they” – all plurals. Can you give specific examples of me doing the things you are accusing me of? I’m sure you are not just making sh*t up to defend a commenter you like against one you do not like.”—who said I don’t like you. Your just fine, but when people are going on ridiculous rants then I say what I will say and so forth. You are not the first and trust me when I say you will not be the last. You are constantly hoping to change his mind and or opinion and how has that worked out for you? Hasn’t done much for you at all has it other than make you look obsessive.

    Example is how you believe brothawolf is hiding from his racism or that he is trying to say he is not a racist when he flat out said he is.

    So if he flat out says it then you have not “caught him” or “proved him wrong.” Secondly out of all the individual that say ridiculous things in here why is it you only harp on brothawolf? You are in heated debates with brothawolf and Kwamla both who you have had heated arguments with and now both who you are jumping on their every whim of words. All perfect examples of what I have previously stated. You are arguing about what you believe to be their mindset and frankly unless you are in that persons mind you will never truly know their mindset.

    “No, but interesting? Yes.”—No. Maybe for you, but not me.


  587. @Sharina

    “who said I don’t like you. Your just fine,”

    Well, that’s awkward. I do not like you. I see you as one of the people who are willing to lie, construct straw men and manipulate the other person’s words to gain an advantage in a discussion. That’s how I’ve been thinking about you since our first conversation about four months ago.

    “You are constantly hoping to change his mind and or opinion and how has that worked out for you?”

    Speaking of manipulations, “constantly”, huh? In that last comment you admitted you can only recall two of my conversation with brothawolf. The current one and the one from 4 months ago, the one I referenced earlier. Don’t you think that’s a weak basis to talk about me having “an obsessive nature with him that frankly is not remotely healthy, but creepy on a whole new level” and me having “a long standing issue with brothawolf and thus” taking “issue with anything he says”? You probably don’t.

    I’m not trying to change brothawolf’s mind. I just like to procrastinate by talking about things with strangers on the internet.

    “Example is how you believe brothawolf is hiding from his racism or that he is trying to say he is not a racist when he flat out said he is. ”

    It’s possible to both claim to be something only when it is convenient for you and deny it when it is not. That’s what hypocrites do. I think brothawolf is one.

    “Secondly out of all the individual that say ridiculous things in here why is it you only harp on brothawolf?”

    I don’t. I had disagreements with many other commenter here and starting two conversations within four months doesn’t really count as stalking.

    “You are in heated debates with brothawolf and Kwamla both who you have had heated arguments with and now both who you are jumping on their every whim of words. All perfect examples of what I have previously stated.”

    No, it’s not an example of what you accused me of. I haven’t caused that. Kwamla talked to me. He brought up our past discussions, not me. If anything, that makes him the one who feels there is some unresolved stuff between us that needs to be addressed.
    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-164851

    “Maybe for you, but not me.”

    If you do not consider my conversation with brothawolf and Kwamla interesting then you should stop reading it and participating in it.


  588. [...] abagond. (2013, January 17) [Web log message]. Retrieved from http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/  [...]


  589. i’m black and white and i too cannot live harmoniously with nature tear down and destroy all the trees please.. right??


  590. most of your base are belong to us make some of your time yo…


  591. blackswhites are still whites yo.. people try to be dumb and act like we aren’t but if all black whites dated only black whites i mean we’re still white you know… just black whites..


  592. I deleted five off-topic posts by boam in which she mainly talks about her hair.


  593. Great article abagond.

    Look at Encyclopedia dramatica’s articles on Africa and Black people (as well as uncyclopedia’s articles) and you will see what they truly feel about us.

    Both Encyclopedia dramatica and uncyclopedia are both parodies of Wikipedia written by the youknowwhos as a way of overriding political correctness and being fully honest about their thoughts on subjects. ED is primarily down to the white middle class geek youth that popularised internet memes, 4chan and organisations such as anonymous in the west. a lot of these true feelings are hidden in humor, but the black people (aka titled “Niggers”) and “Africa” article is nothing less than vehement.. They are the closest things to pure evil I have ever seen in my life in relation to racism of our race, and has convinced me we have no business seeking to socialize, integrate, share social graces, food, or our time with these “people”.


  594. @ eco

    Did not see the comment so just responding to it now.

    “Well, that’s awkward. I do not like you. I see you as one of the people who are willing to lie, construct straw men and manipulate the other person’s words to gain an advantage in a discussion. That’s how I’ve been thinking about you since our first conversation about four months ago. “—That is fine because I don’t remember begging you to like me. I don’t hold grudges, so you can stay mad all day and night if it makes you feel better.

    Hard to lie or manipulate arguments when you can simply quote what a person said and most of any debates or arguments with you I simply quoted your posts. I am not sure how to construct a straw man or even if I have so…. I asked you questions mainly and most if not all you could not answer or refused to answer (your problem not mine)You believed your logic was a sure fire know it all to people which frankly it was not. I was not looking to win the argument but point out yours was no more valid than brothawolf’s.

    “Speaking of manipulations, “constantly”, huh?”—That is not a manipulation. Any comments you have made to brothawolf have all been centered around you trying to tell him he is wrong about something. I have yet to see you respond to him in any other manner. If you actually read some of the constant hounding you do to him in all of those posts then you will clearly know what I mean. I am not the only one that sees it but you are free to believe otherwise.

    “I don’t. I had disagreements with many other commenter here and starting two conversations within four months doesn’t really count as stalking.”—I don’t remember saying you stalked him. I said you take issues with everything he says.

    “If you do not consider my conversation with brothawolf and Kwamla interesting then you should stop reading it and participating in it.”—I guess you don’t realize how annoying it actually is to want to learn something from this thread and to have individuals like you coming here trying to have a pissing contest. Derailing the whole topic at hand.


  595. @ Eco

    And this will be my last comment to you. You really are in your own world in many cases. Out of the arguments i have seen you in. Most if not all center around you calling people names and belittling them simply because they do not accept your responses as the grade A acceptable line of thinking. You become the aggressor and then later try to paint yourself as the victim. When you said I lied or manipulated your words for an advantage in the argument…I honestly had to laugh, but then I had to smh. I did not lie or try to trip you up in anything I said in that argument. You acknowledged the truth in what I said as long as it applied to brothawolf, but refused to acknowledge it when it applied to you. You have an ego and I don’t find anything wrong with that, but i think it is very damaging when that ego starts to cloud ones judgement.


  596. I agree with @sharina


  597. Interesting cover art. But it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Trayvon was no innocent child. He was a wannabe thug teenager.


  598. Sure. Because you know so much about him. His thoughts belief intent. You were the trees or grass I presume?


  599. “Charlene

    Interesting cover art. But it is a misrepresentation of the truth. Trayvon was no innocent child. He was a wannabe thug teenager.”

    Typical racist response….Nothing new here.


  600. Here’s the problem with Blacks: They cannot get over the in your face fact that whites are inherently psychopathic! No jesus, buddah, dalai lama, dr phil or even oprah can psychoanalyze the racist hate from them. Blacks still have some silly penchant for incredulous disbelief because they like to compare other people’s behavior and thought to their own. When it comes to “whites” there is no comparison. Face it. Whites have an innate hate for Blacks and that’s all. Deal with it by NOT being, thinking, eating, living like whites. Start with changing what you eat, how you live, how you think. Help self, family and community first. The more you try to be white the sicker you are going to become in health, mind and soul. As an asian woman I speak this because I can see things from a fly on the wall view. I have seen what whites have done to my people (Chinese), and how Chinese in their sick delusions of becoming like whites (or liked by whites) have become some of the most racially hateful beings on the planet. Over the centuries we have genocided the Blackness out of our own genes. By doing so we have doomed ourselves as a people while gaining what…white approval? A place at the white control system table? This is why I married a BLACK MAN from Ghana. I want my children to have a chance here on earth and here after.
    As Dr. Frances Cress Welsing says: “It’s not about hating white people…it is about replacing system of white supremacy (dominance),racism with a system of justice.”


  601. P.S. to my Black brothers and sisters…and for goodness sake NEVER ever mate or marry a white. Trust me it would be the worse decision ever made in your life. Let the dead marry the dead. If any whites are offended…well all I can say is… get over it.


  602. Man you motherfuckers are so damned self entitled and blind! You are the ones creating the crimes! Do
    Not try to play devils advocate with white people, or place your crimes and mishaps on the fault of us! Take responsibility for a fucking change!
    Fear you? Ha! Most of us do not even come close to “fearing you” as you would all live to believe! What we fear is persecution from society and having a label places on us so much as to lose our civil liberties! But it is not a physical or primordial fear in the least! Hell you guys are always running around in little tribes and packs anyway, so yeah who wouldn’t fear 10 against 1? Dumb asses! This article just reenforces how much I hate you! It sounds very Afrocentric in nature and some how society just lets it happen and make it socially acceptable to say what you want about us, but persecute whites for doing the same to you! You guys can go eat a bunch of dicks and choke on them for all I care!


  603. @ Jeff

    I am sure you have eaten enough d*cks for the world ten times over. :)


  604. @ Sharina: HA! HA!


  605. Bwhwahwah.

    we don’t eat d@cks as we are not cannibals and I think ur ancestors already did that. and second that would mean you’d have to cut the said d#ck off of someone and that’s not our style either, but I see yall have enjoyed cutting d@cks off of other men and dressing up as d#cks, hmm someone has a fascination with the d.


  606. Mark my words you society sucking coons, white people have given you multiple chances to integrate into society and become productive caring citizens! But believe me when i tell you probably at least 80% of us see the pointlessness in trying to embrace you thankless parasites any longer! Also mark my words that the more often we become sickened and disgusted by your ghetto nigger ways, is one step closet to your entire annihilation! So go ahead and crack jokes all you want, we will have the last laugh! White people are getting to their last threshold trying to put up with your scapegoat entitled mentality! I’ve tried to embrace you myself, but I now realize that you are a list fucking cause! So please keep it up and let’s continue this cycle of hate, because an inevitable war is coming! Guess who will win?


  607. @Jeff

    contact loonsareus.com for treatment or blowitoutyourhold.com. You need help! Take your own advice and go honk on Bobo!


  608. @ Jeff

    Do you consider yourself racist? Why or why not?


  609. @ Jeff

    The way I see it there is more likely than not a chance that I am paying for you to sit on your azz in your trailer park and collect food stamps than it is that you are doing such for me. In fact I would say that you should be thanking me for working my but off and be willing to share my icome with an ungrateful twat like you.


  610. income*


  611. And Jeff in response to this joke of a question “Guess who will win?”

    I already won. :)


  612. @Agabond. Yes, I do now! I didn’t always used to be like this, and my parents didn’t ever use racial slurs growing up. But It is due to experience and what I’ve seen from blacks. I basically hate you because you hate me, pure and simple! Hate breeds hate and you guys try to act like there is some kind of halo above your head like you can do no wrong! You guys are racist and thrive on controversy and the current racial separation for some reason. Let me ask you this. Which group of people are really the oppressed ones when one group can’t state their opinions about their preferences? Which group if people are oppressed when it is white boys always having to watch their backs because they get jumped and beaten by groups of black thugs, all while never being considered a hate crime? You see you guys have it all ass backwards, we try to progress and succeed in life, and we are the more empathetic group for the most part! I look at your site and all the comments made by your “brothers” and “sisters” and it’s all racist Afrocentric bullshit! White people are getting tired of being your scapegoats! That’s why Agabond!


  613. Anyone know why some whites are so ANGRY and miserable when it comes to blacks? That is the weirdest thing to me. I know someone on another forum mentioned that “they act like it was us who enslaved and oppressed them” but I have to ponder this point again.

    I went shopping today to an area out of the way, it seems black and Asians and everyone else is able to go about their day minding their business but some White men and women have an extreme focus on blacks. Went into a shoe store where a white guy was acting very weird. Latino salesman minding his own business, two white guys …well some scary vibes were being thrown my way. One guy was acting angry at my physique and that I had had a friendly convo with one of the white guys near the store entrance. The vibes being thrown around as I was trying on shoes was so scary (almost demonic)..but I do know anyone can be angry and be a bully, that hate-filled, angry vibe is something I notice alot mostly from racist white men, women and white supremacists.


  614. BrothaWolf,

    I have to agree. People keep saying we need to ‘get over the past’ but day and day whites act like they want us or wish us to be our slaves. It’s soo weird. It’s like they want to control us and have a slave-master relationship with us. I mean you have quite alot whom act uncomfortable whenever a black male is around them, they have to act homosexual around them. Forget us black women, most white men will put 110% of their energy when we’re around them to try to get us to be maligned, shunned and hated by anyone in the vicinity.

    and yes, many of the racists act OBSESSED with blacks. I cannot tell you how in college and in the workplace they will put so much focus and energy into a black person or black people. Once they step into the office it’s like their focus is on you and they watch like they’re a where-wolf and you’re they’re prey. racism is a SICKNESS!!


  615. “Alicia

    Anyone know why some whites are so ANGRY and miserable when it comes to blacks? That is the weirdest thing to me. I know someone on another forum mentioned that “they act like it was us who enslaved and oppressed them” but I have to ponder this point again.”

    I believe it has to do with whites, needing blacks as a scape goat for all their problems in society, which is ironic being the majority of white people that are racist against black, never met one in their life.

    There are parts of this country that are 100% white, yet they hate back people. Go figure that…


  616. @ Alicia, that is an ignorant and obnoxious claim to say or believe that only white people harbor hate! As a matter of fact Alicia, listen to any modern music or television show and you tell me that their isn’t blatant racism and hate going on against whites! It is now socially acceptable to hate me and call me a peckerwood cracker white devil etc… But God forbid I say the word nigger on television or anywhere else because the persecution is on and I just may get blacklisted from the work force. Good thing for me that I am retired military and don’t have to worry about getting fired! My guess is that if most whites weren’t so afraid of losing their careers and being labeled racist by their colleagues, acquaintances, friends, family etc…. they would be just as vocal as blacks are about whites to why they hate MOST blacks! What gets me is that you guys put whites down, and I can understand why you would hate someone like me, but for Christ’s sake there are white people in droves trying to help you! What a waste of time an effort in my opinion! Deep down I wish we really could get along, but man I never hear anything good come out of your mouths about me, my family, my heritage, my culture etc….. You hate us, therefor we hate you! It’s really as simple as that!


  617. Dude hahaha I had to laugh at your comment! You are so damn wrong about the scapegoat thing, because most of us don’t even want to associate ourselves with you, whether they admit it or not! It’s why we move to white areas and burbs and country! We don’t want to live like a bunch of thugs trashing out neighborhoods and fearing the next day due to widespread animosity towards whites! You ever here someone say “don’t go into my neighborhood whiteboy”? Or something similar to that context? I have many times! And don’t play ignorant with me dude, you know what that means! That means that they (blacks) hate whites and would do harm to us! You are our scapegoat? Bullshit! We are your scapegoat! We are supposedly the reasons for all of black people’s issues and problems! We jut want nothing to do with you!


  618. Alicia

    Forget us black women, most white men will put 110% of their energy when we’re around them to try to get us to be maligned, shunned and hated by anyone in the vicinity.

    I have to disagree to a certain degree, here.

    The majority of white men, will tolerate black women, not black men, for the sole purpose to wanting to bring back the old days of slavery, to have unlimited access to black women’s bodies.

    White men are and always have been, intimidated by the black man in every way, when it comes to masculinity sexual prowess and physically.

    I see it all the time, white men still want to have sex with black women, not Mary them or have children with them but just to be their negro bed wenches, just like back in slavery.

    So white men keep black women around them in the work place for instance, so they can for fill their “quota” of having a black person on the job, have access to a black woman’s body and at the same time, eliminating the black man for jobs, so he can’t provide for his family and won’t look attractive to his white women, by keeping black men financially cripple, so the white man’s women don’t want him or even his own women, the black woman, doesn’t want him.

    This is the perfect scenario for the white man, because he wants the black women to turn to him, not for love or marriage or children but for SEX!

    Then when the white man wants to settle down, get married and have children, he breaks up with the black woman and marries a white woman.


  619. In short….I was always racist but I needed an excuse to be outright racist so I read like a few posts from individuals and decided that was a reasonable justification to be.

    —The end


  620. Hahahaha that really is funny! I can’t speak for all white men, but I know that myself and most of the guys I chill with are definitely NOT attracted to black women AT ALL! I mean I am attracted to Asians and Hispanics to a certain degree, but definitely not black women! And that is just a preference thing really, not a racist thing. I actually never try and catch a black woman’s attention! And I will admit that I have slept with one before, yet I was extremely drunk when it happened and regretted it the next day because she was a bartender outside the base I was stationed and she probably slept with lots of dudes! I had no idea if I caught a disease or something!
    Ok now on to the whole fear thing… Again I can’t speak for all white men (we really are different and not the same person you know lmao), but I myself have no reason to fear a black guy as I have always been a large and well built man. I never get messed with because people are automatically afraid of me! I was military and carry myself as such! But I suppose anybody can be scared of a man with a “gat” and 10 thug friends behind him! Physique? Hahaha ok whatever man, any race has the opportunity to build a great physique lol! Due to my Military time it gave me ample time to build such a great physique! Plus man I’ve grown up quite a bit and even though I am good looking and built well, I know that most women do not choose their mates or partners based on looks, so even if I was a short, ugly, nerdy, dorky dude, I would still have the wisdom at my age to know I can still get my play from whatever race of woman! Or maybe black women are just shallow! You see guy, we whites don’t usually overly emphasize the physical aspects of life like you guys do, because we realize there is more to life than big rims, gold chains and pussy in droves!


  621. @ Alicia

    I hope u didn’t buy from that store. idk why white men act homosexual I hear all the time of black men that are in the military saying when they have to shower the white men will be sneaking a peak at their privates. Or I see them staring at black men when they working out. It is very weird, then they like to come on the internet and talk about d#cks and they even have costumes of it.


  622. Yep you know me nigger! I can’t wait till the next time I go work out and catch me a peek of some niglet dick in the shower!!!! Fuck yeah!!! LMMFAO! You’re retarded!


  623. It speaks of wisdom yet does not realize he has none.

    @ Sondis

    I don’t know whether to laugh or shake my head in shame at his failed attempt to paint you as a stereotype.


  624. @ Jeff

    If whites could freely speak their minds, how many would generally agree with your opinion of blacks, would you say?


  625. @ Jeff

    You going to have to chill on the slurs and cursing and abusive language. I let your first bunch of comments through moderation despite that, but from now on I am going to kill anything of yours in moderation. If you want to continue commenting here you are going to have to express yourself in a more civil, respectful manner.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/


  626. Clearly one does not kbow who the true retard is here.


  627. “Jeff

    Hahahaha that really is funny! I can’t speak for all white men, but I know that myself and most of the guys I chill with are definitely NOT attracted to black women AT ALL! I mean I am attracted to Asians and Hispanics to a certain degree, but definitely not black women! And that is just a preference thing really, not a racist thing. I actually never try and catch a black woman’s attention! And I will admit that I have slept with one before, yet I was extremely drunk when it happened and regretted it the next day because she was a bartender outside the base I was stationed and she probably slept with lots of dudes! I had no idea if I caught a disease or something!”

    I want every black woman on this blog to make sure you understand what he just said. This is exactly, what I’ve been saying on this blog for many months since I’ve been a member on this blog, white men only see you as something to F*uck and nothing more!

    This racist white man has always hated black women, yet he had sex with a black woman!

    let me break down something else this racist white man said for my black women:

    “but I know that myself and most of the guys I chill with are definitely NOT attracted to black women AT ALL!”

    White men, having sex with black women, have absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH ATTRACTION, being back in slavery, white men didn’t even see black women as fully HUMAN, not to mention they weren’t attracted to these black women, yet they still raped black women and their little children.

    Yes, white men were pedophiles back then too, they molested and raped little black boys and girls of the slaves they owned.

    Do you see how this white racist, doesn’t even understand the concept of white people, using black people for sex and when their not using us for sex, they have their foot against our necks?


  628. Jeff do you suffer from Irishman’s curse? If you do that would explain your sexualized outbursts.


  629. @ Abagond, fair enough! But I see an attack on me and my color and I go into attack mode.


  630. Sondis,

    I have never worked or been in any environment where there were black women, while black men were absent, ever!

    I have been a black woman most of my life and while you can only relate to your experiences as a black man, I think you need to listen more to what we black women are saying. It may ‘appear’ that white men are more comfortable with black women but I think they hate based upon gender.

    So while they are acting weirdly intimidated by black men, they do the same thing with black women but in a different way. For example, whenever I am in a white area I get this vibe that white men and women feel not only are black women considered “less” but that we SHOULD BE considered less, be shunned by everyone including black men and white MEN act like they want to keep black men, hispanic men and others from showing any attraction or care for black women. It’s like a racialized sexism they deal out to us where we should be maligned not only as blacks, but as black women.

    I don’t get white men wanting to sleep with black women per se, but that they want us to feel like sh#t. It has been mentioned by other black women that what they want is for us to us “not wanted by anyone, but available to anyone”.

    That’s a hurtful thing for us too. For example I have had white men who were curious about black women not acting only attracted like black, hispanic and heck even chinese and other asian men do, but like a resentful, racist, attraction. For example, if they notice you notice them checking you out, they will throw an insult or hateful vibe. It’s really weird and sick. Not every single white man, but a large percentage ( the racist ones) behave this way.

    The other day I was at an event where an Asian member of our team was complimenting a fellow black woman, and it was the white guys who were throwing major shade. It was so awkward. Can you imagine having men acting jealous of your physique and of others finding you attractive when you are a woman.

    It may appear from the outside that whites are more comfortable with black women, but that is farthest from the truth. The sickness of racism extends to us as well.


  631. @ jeff

    Obviously what you see and what actually is being done are two different things. There is no attack on you because no one knows you. I don’t see your name in the post above. Do you? If so seek mental help. As for your skin color….I know some people that are considered black and have your skin color….so what?


  632. @ Abagond, lol not sure if you’re just an inquisitive anthropologist who seeks for answers or if you are just trying to gather intel for an ulterior motive, but I will answer your question honestly.
    I would generally say that it all depends on the type of crowd I am with! However, with this being said I am not hanging around Neo-Nazis or KKK members so it varies! I have lost friends to, saying racially charged comments, but I just see those people as sympathizers who weren’t my friends from the get go! Their are plenty of white folks who do favor you, like you, whatever you wanna call it! But at the same time their a large percentage of white people (men especially) who are almost to their threshold on how much more they can take from this reversed racism and blatant prejudice against whites! If you were ask me to give you an educated guess? Probably in reality it is roughly 50/50! Again it really depends on the company one is keeping though! Most of the white sympathizers are women! I can’t tell you why, maybe they just never lived around black people or never have to fight, but there are women too that are reaching their threshold, and I know several of them!


  633. @ sondis

    uhum i’m glad he said that, its like cold water to the face to remind u to stay awake and vigilant. I don’t know how much more evidence people need to see what is going on and how they view us. I can’t really feel sorry for the ones that choose to ignore the signs and get hurt. They’ve always objectified black women, they still do it today, both white men and white women.


  634. I would strongly suggest, that any black woman on this blog or anywhere for that matter, would not date a white man as this is just an example of how the majority of white men thing about black women, black men and black people in general.

    Don’t find yourself in a relationship with a white man, just to find out that you were nothing more than a Negro bed wench, when he leaves you after you start to put pressure on him for marriage, children and a house.

    He never intended to buy you a house, have your children and marry you.

    These things are reserved for his white woman, not you!

    The only thing he has reserved for you…..is hotel reservations for when he happens to be in town on business and he needs a Negro bed wench to for fill his sexual fetish for the black woman’s dark skin,supple back side and beautiful almond shaped eyes.

    Then when the deed is done, he can blame it all on alcohol and say he was drunk as a skunk!

    Don’t be fooled by the white man, black women! he hates you just like he hates the black man, he is just more tolerant when it comes to YOU! because he still have a taste for you flesh!

    There is nothing a black man can do for the white man but die or go to jail but the black woman has a vagina and that is why the white man has kept you close by his side in the work place and corporate America, where black men, barely exist.


  635. As a matter of fact Herneith I do suffer from that disease!! How’d you guess? The doctors try to extract the four leaf clovers from my genitalia, but nothing seems to work! Damn Irish peasants and their small genitalia!!!


  636. Objectified? More like ignored lol! I place no symbolism on black women, because I don’t think about them much!


  637. Lol Sondis, you go preach that stuff, because we white men dont care and dont them your black women anyway for the most part! it isn’t hurting me one shred!


  638. “I would strongly suggest, that any black woman on this blog or anywhere for that matter, would not date a white man ”

    rofl already excluded them and I ain’t even dating yet lol.

    “The only thing he has reserved for you…..is hotel reservations ”

    Oh bwhwhaha oh sheit, too funny.

    “There is nothing a black man can do for the white man but die or go to jail ”

    u forgot they like black men to act a fool on tv and make money for him playing sports.


  639. Don’t want.


  640. Hi mstoogood4yall

    Nope, I did not purchase from that store. Thank God they didn’t have any shoes that fit me well enough to purchase. It was so weird though and for the beginning of my drive home I was sorta freaked out. It’s said that we are always thinking about race which is weird because it’s the opposite with the racists who tend to be ALL ABOUT RACE and hating based on race.

    Yes, white men and women do act pre-occupied with black male sexuality but they also are the same with black women and blacks in general. It is so psycho and sick. I have seen some black men act homo with latino men given they are perceived to be higher in the racial pecking order in terms of society but with white men it’s like they can’t be comfortable around black men or black people in general and instead act pre-occupied with black sexuality which is weird. FIrst of all, how can you be uncomfortable around someone merely because they have a different skin color? So weird. Uncomfortable to the point where you act sexual and also want to harm them in some way with an insult or other hurtful action.

    Re:
    ——————————————————
    @ Alicia

    I hope u didn’t buy from that store. idk why white men act homosexual I hear all the time of black men that are in the military saying when they have to shower the white men will be sneaking a peak at their privates. Or I see them staring at black men when they working out. It is very weird, then they like to come on the internet and talk about d#cks and they even have costumes of it.


  641. @ Alicia

    Never saw that with black men and latino men, hmmm idk. that is good u didn’t buy from that store.
    “FIrst of all, how can you be uncomfortable around someone merely because they have a different skin color?”
    I think it also has to do with cultural differences and stereotypes.if u start talking about dogs or animals that seems to loosen them up a bit and breaks the ice.

    “Uncomfortable to the point where you act sexual and also want to harm them in some way with an insult or other hurtful action. ”

    Oh yes reminds me of kindergarten


  642. @Alicia I must be completely lost as to what it is you are saying or even talking about! Is this some kind of lingo with you guys? Do you really believe that we white men are gay over black men and have a sexual desire for them? Lol that is just sick and crazy, but it’s a conversation amongst your own I guess.

    As far as your comment saying we are pre-occupied with race? Ok well let me just say it is you who is a subscribed member to this racially charged and instigated website lol! Yes I am hear too, which obliviously means I have a dilemma with race as well, but don’t be a hypocrite at the very least!

    Funny thing is how I actually got to this site in the first place today! I Googled something Long the lines of “why is there no such support groups for RECOVERING racists”, but then I guess I posted something civil way too soon, because I hadn’t read ALL the hate filled comments about whites in a previous blog related to “recovering racists”. So after I read those hate filled messages, I asked myself why I was even bothering to settle any differences with you, because you already hate me, it’s why you’re on this site! I may be full of hate, but I’m no idiot, I smell hypocrisy from across the Globe! Put your money where your mouth is Alicia!


  643. lol mstoogood4yall,

    I am talking about situations where you have people who have worked together for 10+ years or lived in the same neighborhood yet the racist is still hateful and “uncomfortable”. We are all different. So many hispanics don’t like blacks and asians have white supremacist issues and different cultures yet I am not “uncomfortable” by default when it comes to anyone. heck, what about us and whites whom in general have issues with blacks, we are not “uncomfortable” and hateful by default. that’s sick!


  644. Goodness, looks like someone drank too much and used this post as a confessional. I hope they feel better now. Not everyone gets to be the case that proves the hypothesis. Luck of the Irish indeed.


  645. No Anne this was no confessional! And I think if I were drunk, I wouldn’t be using punctuation and proper grammar Lmao! Nope I am not drunk, nor am I using this as a confessional! I simply was a man letting society bring me down and helping to make me feel as though I were doing something wrong somehow by thinking the way I do, even though I cause no harm or problems to anyone. So nevertheless I googled something for support! I mean maybe someone will listen right, we are all human after all right? After having no success even finding some kind of support group on google, I went a few more spots down in the google list and found this site, not even aware that it was a site dedicated to blacks and how they all hate and blame white people. So before I could actually see what the site was about, I read one of your blogs called idk, something like “how to tell if a white person is a recovering racist”. I read it and it wasn’t one of your more racially charged blogs, so I decided I would explain why white people feel the way they do in a very civil manner (at first). But to my surprise, I went back and read a lot of comments made by you fellows on how we whites are this and that! All negative! Needless to say it pissed me off, and prompted me to rescind my well intended sentiments! That is it in a nutshell! I was asking for help, but instead all I got was a bunch of revered racist garbage from your Comrades! No wonder we will never live in harmony together, it seems like whites are the only ones who even attempt to change things and break the ice, but blacks always shoot us down! I guess you can say I learned my lesson Anne, so thanks for that!


  646. “Anyone know why some whites are so ANGRY and miserable when it comes to blacks? That is the weirdest thing to me. I know someone on another forum mentioned that “they act like it was us who enslaved and oppressed them” but I have to ponder this point again.”

    My experience and the explanation provided by Some scholars is that whites lack melanin of sufficient qualities in their epidermis
    whereas we black africans esp those undiluted by mating with whites have full and maximum quantities of melanin in our epidermis.

    this has several consequences

    1.aesthetic superiority and inferiority
    I daily experience the extreme ugliness and undesirability of a large portion of the “white” population – this ugliness and undesirability is in direct proportion to the degree a white person lacks melanin in their epidermis i.e. the whiter the uglier.

    whereas it also works in the opposite direction as well – the more melanin the better looking.

    2.apparently this lacking of melanin and its resulting undesirability makes said population extremely aggressive and hostile to the point of psychopathy.


  647. Lmao! Coming from a guy that looks like he hasn’t quite made it past evolutionary physical features! I mean dude you’re ugly as hell! And while beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder, so to is the choice to have preference on who they associate with! You see man this is why I quickly reverted my well intended comments at first! You sir are just proving my point! By the way, in my opinion, blacks are not even close to being beautiful! It boggles my mind how a rare few wannabe back white women even can stomach even touching you! The whites are definitely the better looking race if you were to compare the two! I am not being biased about this because I actually think that Mexicans and Asians, and Israeli women are damn beautiful compared to white women, but definitely not blacks! I have found that there really isn’t a lot of non black people who actually find your race attractive at all! The ones who do were probably abused girls growing up and needed solace in someone that might accept them! But for the most part, the blacks who do end up getting lucky with a white woman usually end up cheating on them and introducing them to crack, crank, heroin, and prostitution! Because as all of us white honkeys know, you can’t overcome your primitive instincts to dress in ridiculous bright purple pimp suites, with chains, and ugly “hey look at me and how ridiculous I am” diamond rings! You guys place glory on pimps and thugs and it reflects in your modern music lyrics! I went to a black church one time as a child, and it was a large congregation like you see on tv. The damn pastor was even wearing his ridiculous flashy purple and dove white pimp suite! It was retarded! I remember thinking to myself “damn, this guy is supposed to be a pastor, a man of God”, but even when I went outside to leave after the sermon was over, I saw this same man get into his flashy decked out Bentley! That is not a lie! But maybe that’s normal for you shallow people! I wouldn’t know, because whites place heavy emphasis on family, ethics, and values, but we have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to associating with people who cannot be reasoned with!


  648. Looks like someone is desperate for attention from the very blacks he despises. So sad. The more he is ignored the more he seeks. Like a lost puppy angry at his master for neglect yet sits and wags his tail for attention none the less.


  649. Hahahaha! That was funny for real Shaniqua! You should become a comedian! After all I love catching me a live comedy show at a zoo or a circus!


  650. Must be quite easy for you when you live in one.


  651. Sharina,

    I was going to bypass this conversation but I just wanted to say — didn’t you promise that after the experience you had with XPratorious, that you would not allow yourself to be dragged into a pointless conversation with a white person who is clearly here to just broadcast their racist feelings?

    You are wasting your time because people like this don’t intend to change and engaging with them will yield you nothing but wasted time and finger cramp.

    All of us live in the real world and know what is going on — Jeff isn’t saying anything new or inspiring.

    and as I always say, when America goes down because it’s government and big business multinational companies (the real owners of America) are focused on the “wrong” things.. it’s taking black, white, and everyone in between with the sinking ship.


  652. Oh you mean the zoo or concrete jungle called Detroit, St. Louis, and New Orleans which are all 1000’s of miles away from me? Yeah I guess I should redirect my focus onto something more glamorous, like the ghetto and the slums! Damn I must be doing something wrong in life!


  653. @ Linda

    Yes, I did but a part of me could not help it. This guy is just too funny. :)


  654. @ Jeff

    Well you let me know what you find in those ghettos because unfortunately for you I don’t live in one, but per my promise I must put you on ignore .

    Good luck making up all those stories about all black people. I hear insecure people love to do that to make themselves feel better. :)

    (pushes ignore button)


  655. Sharina,

    I always ignore white racist like Jeff, they always respond to me but i always ignore them and continue to point out their rhetoric to prove a point to other black people on this blog.

    I suggest everyone do the same, being its the same broken record, being played over and over again by white racists who drop by this blog to let all their racism out.

    I saw how you and a few others, respond to Jeff with insults, i wish you wouldn’t stoop down to his level but remain dignified in your words as there are other young black men and women that read this blog, they may think this is the way to handle racist, to fight them with the same tactics they use against us, which is what these white racist want, so they can point to us and go, “you see, blacks are ignorant and i just proved it.”

    The double standard will work in their favor and even if you say, ” an eye for an eye”, The white majority will always side with their own and will ignore what one of theirs say and only focus on you, a black person being ignorant and hurling insults.

    This is why i never respond, directly to any white racist on this blog, i’ve said time and time again, i am not here to talk to them, argue with them, reason with them or convince them of their racism, because i know that they know, they are racist, they just have to deny it and always will.

    The only time they will boldly proclaim to being a racist, is anonymously on a black blog, hiding behind an alias.

    Time waits for no man…..


  656. Oh and Thank you Linda for the reminder. :)


  657. @ sondis

    I know but there is a part of me that just hates watching them insult other blacks on here. I just have to keep reminding myself…they want attention so don’t give it to them. I just don’t get that if they hate blacks so much why seek our attention?


  658. Sharina:

    Its because they need black people to insult, so we can feel bad about ourselves.

    Some white people are failures at some things in their life, so they feel insecure about themselves, so in order to balance these feelings out, they use a race of people that they consider to be inferior a scapegoat for their problems. White people feed off of the insecurities,fear and disposition of black people in America.

    Its like white racist like Jeff are trying to feed off the life force of black people.

    When you react and respond to them in the way that you do, you grant them the very result that they were looking for in the first place.

    I do not and will not give them, what they seek, i need my life force to use at my disposal for the purposes of awareness of black men,women and children.

    I suggest you channel that anger and frustration, toward black people on this blog, such as myself.

    I need the life force of my black women to help me, when my life force is low, a black woman can help me, recharge my life force!


  659. Has there ever been so many bull sh!t stereyotypes coming from white/black/chinese commenters in such a short space of time in cyber history?

    This is total crap…man, fuk this Sh!t, you all can kiss my behind with this kind of ridiculas stereyotyping from all sides…you can have it…what kind of decrepid lives do you stereyotypers lead? I dont want anything to do with that kind of bottom feeding diologue…


  660. “Sondis@
    Don’t find yourself in a relationship with a white man, just to find out that you were nothing more than a Negro bed wench, when he leaves you after you start to put pressure on him for marriage, children and a house.

    He never intended to buy you a house, have your children and marry you.
    These things are reserved for his white woman, not you!

    The only thing he has reserved for you…..is hotel reservations for when he happens to be in town on business and he needs a Negro bed wench to for fill his sexual fetish for the black women”

    Linda says,

    Sondis, what kind of backwards, “feel good” advice are you trying to peddle to the young women on this board.

    There are too many young black women in America walking around with low self-esteem and almost zero confidence (no matter what they say) due to just dealing with black men

    I rarely want to get into this issue on this blog because most black women see women like me AS the problem… but we “Exoticals” don’t have it any easier …men are men and most are attracted to the physical first (with an eye on the pumpum) before they see character and brains… ALL women have to deal with that hurdle.

    you might be saying these things as a form of “shock therapy” but I just cringe whenever I read your words — and I know you are saying those things coming from a “good place” and you mean well

    but after reading what many of the young black women from previous posts are saying — I believe they are trying to say that they don’t feel love and respect from black men or the world in general — so what are they supposed to do?

    so it’s “d’am if they, d’am if they don’t”… what’s a girl to do: my advice — love whoever loves you back … being with a white man won’t make them any less black or less marginalized in America.

    Anyway, military Interracial love story:

    “Arizona Senator John McCain’s son, Jack McCain, wed Renee Swift on Saturday, June 1 in San Francisco, Calif., a spokesperson for the senator confirms to Us Weekly.

    Jack, 27, is a Navy lieutenant and helicopter pilot. His bride, 29-year-old Swift, is a San Francisco Bay Area native and a captain in the United States Air Force Reserve.”

    http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/senator-john-mccains-son-jack-mccain-marries-renee-swift-201326#ixzz2V6moh31o


  661. @Sondis

    Just can’t see myself being angry at the black bloggers and for yhe most part usually am not at white bloggers either (maybe the trolls though)


  662. “I suggest you channel that anger and frustration, toward black people on this blog, such as myself. ”

    I think this came out the wrong way. What i meant was, to channel that anger and frustration and convert it into a positive toward black people.

    Let me put it another way…

    I am so concerned with black people, that i have no problem, not responding to even the most racist white people on this blog and Jeff is up there with the most racist I’ve seen on here.

    My love for black people is stronger than my disdain for racist white people, that is why i can ignore them, because i spend the majority of my time, talking to and uplifting black people on this blog, not arguing or insulting white people.

    This is where i think a lot of black people in America and on this blog, goes wrong. We give white people too much power, so effect our emotions.

    Black people need develop a tougher and thinker skin to deal with the psychological warfare that is raged on us on a daily basis.

    I haven’t perfected this but i am aware enough to know to watch out for it and when i see it, i know how to identify it.

    Time waits for no man….


  663. @Sondis and all except that White trash troll

    I am back! Anyways I am so sick of White trolls coming on here and attacking us Black people. If they hate us so much, why do they come on Black blogs and post the dumbest comments.

    That is one of the reasons why I am wary of White people. I don’t think they should be and can be trusted.


  664. “Adeen

    @Sondis and all except that White trash troll

    I am back! Anyways I am so sick of White trolls coming on here and attacking us Black people. If they hate us so much, why do they come on Black blogs and post the dumbest comments.

    ” If they hate us so much, why do they come on Black blogs and post the dumbest comments?”

    See my response to Sharina for the answer to this question.


  665. ur welocme, Sharina


  666. Welcome back, Adeen! \o/

    *sings welcome back by Mase….welcome back, wlecome back…….welcome back! “you know you like that!”


  667. I already explained why how I got to this site, but it looks like the moderator deleted that post since it was a post that proved I was a decent human being! It was one of the few posts on this particular blog that I actually tried to reason with you, but just like the modern media, you have to moderate and edit certain content to make yourselves look better in the public eye! Lets face it, we are both racist toward one another and my hate does not drown out your hate for us! There is nothing glamorous about hate and I wish it didn’t exist, but it’s a continuing cycle that will drive in and on due to you hating me and me hating you back! It will never end, so long as you constantly talk about everything on your life which seems to all be race baited!


  668. @Sondis

    How are you? I am fine! This is one of the reasons why I am wary of Whites and why I don’t particularly like or trust them. They are obsessed with us but hate us. I think it is hate mixed with envy is why they act the way they act towards us.

    They hate us yet always come on our blogs and all to converse with us. Honestly I find that disrespectful and rude. I come on blogs like this to escape Whites and the White, Eurocentric media and converse with my own people about the issues that matter to me the most. I don’t come on here to talk to any White trash troll but my own people like you, Mstoogod4yall etc


  669. @Jeff

    Poor poor poor White trash, Aw, you are upset that Abagond deleted one of your comments. Well suck it up! No Black person wants you on here because I know I don’t. You are White trash just like 80% of the White AmeriKKKlan population!

    And I don’t hate White people, I just don’t like them. But I do hate you and every White troll that comes on here!


  670. When I was growing up, I went to school with people like our new guest.

    But when black middle class people started moving in after desegregation of the schools, they moved somewhere, but I was never sure where. Well, as late as the early 2000s there were a few elderly white people in the neighborhood who talked like that, even as they watched their neighbors around them. But even by now, they have died off.

    Always wondered where they went.


  671. No Anne this was no confessional! And I think if I were drunk, I wouldn’t be using punctuation and proper grammar Lmao! Nope I am not drunk, nor am I using this as a confessional! I simply was a man letting society bring me down and helping to make me feel as though I were doing something wrong somehow by thinking the way I do, even though I cause no harm or problems to anyone. So nevertheless I googled something for support! I mean maybe someone will listen right, we are all human after all right? After having no success even finding some kind of support group on google, I went a few more spots down in the google list and found this site, not even aware that it was a site dedicated to blacks and how they all hate and blame white people. So before I could actually see what the site was about, I read one of your blogs called idk, something like “how to tell if a white person is a recovering racist”. I read it and it wasn’t one of your more racially charged blogs, so I decided I would explain why white people feel the way they do in a very civil manner (at first). But to my surprise, I went back and read a lot of comments made by you fellows on how we whites are this and that! All negative! Needless to say it pissed me off, and prompted me to rescind my well intended sentiments! That is it in a nutshell! I was asking for help, but instead all I got was a bunch of revered racist garbage from your Comrades! No wonder we will never live in harmony together, it seems like whites are the only ones who even attempt to change things and break the ice, but blacks always shoot us down! I guess you can say I learned my lesson Anne, so thanks for that!


  672. @Jefe

    LOL I am not a new guest at all. I am a Black commenter but I am coming back because I haven’t commented in a while.

    Anyways integration doesn’t work. I don’t see why anyone in your generation was dumb enough to think my people integrating with their enemies aka White people was a good idea. Malcolm X was right when he said integration wouldn’t work back in 1963. And look at the Black Community today, it is in shambles. Integration doesn’t work. Integration was the death of the Black man and Black woman in AmeriKKKlan.


  673. It never ends. Trolls are like roaches, you silence one, but there’s always more hiding in the shadows that are still roaming around that will eventually come out.

    Jeff says,

    Man you motherfuckers are so damned self entitled and blind! You are the ones creating the crimes! Do
    Not try to play devils advocate with white people, or place your crimes and mishaps on the fault of us! Take responsibility for a fucking change!
    Fear you? Ha! Most of us do not even come close to “fearing you” as you would all live to believe! What we fear is persecution from society and having a label places on us so much as to lose our civil liberties! But it is not a physical or primordial fear in the least! Hell you guys are always running around in little tribes and packs anyway, so yeah who wouldn’t fear 10 against 1? Dumb asses! This article just reenforces how much I hate you! It sounds very Afrocentric in nature and some how society just lets it happen and make it socially acceptable to say what you want about us, but persecute whites for doing the same to you! You guys can go eat a bunch of dicks and choke on them for all I care!

    And I bet you think you’re a paragon of goodness, eh Jeff? Either that, or a proud jack***.

    All I see in this response is just white projection proving what this topic is all about. You feel entitled to curse us out. You’re blind as a bat to your own victim blaming bash, and all you’re saying is scripted and recycled by other trolls.

    Why not take a wonderful trip to a place like Stormfront where you can rant about how much you hate blacks there and feel like you’re in white heaven.


  674. “Jeff,
    I simply was a man letting society bring me down and helping to make me feel as though I were doing something wrong somehow by thinking the way I do, even though I cause no harm or problems to anyone. So nevertheless I googled something for support!”

    Linda says,

    Jeff, why do you feel like society is letting you down? Do you truly believe what you see wrong with society is black peoples fault?

    You mentioned you feel that hatred between black and white Americans is like a circle — have you thought about what might stop this dysfunctional loop?

    What role can both black and white Americans play in decreasing the hostility?


  675. Jeff says,

    I already explained why how I got to this site, but it looks like the moderator deleted that post since it was a post that proved I was a decent human being!

    Decent human being, hm? Does this sound like what a decent human being would say?

    Man you motherfuckers are so damned self entitled and blind! You are the ones creating the crimes! Do
    Not try to play devils advocate with white people, or place your crimes and mishaps on the fault of us! Take responsibility for a fucking change!
    Fear you? Ha! Most of us do not even come close to “fearing you” as you would all live to believe! What we fear is persecution from society and having a label places on us so much as to lose our civil liberties! But it is not a physical or primordial fear in the least! Hell you guys are always running around in little tribes and packs anyway, so yeah who wouldn’t fear 10 against 1? Dumb asses! This article just reenforces how much I hate you! It sounds very Afrocentric in nature and some how society just lets it happen and make it socially acceptable to say what you want about us, but persecute whites for doing the same to you! You guys can go eat a bunch of dicks and choke on them for all I care!

    It was one of the few posts on this particular blog that I actually tried to reason with you, but just like the modern media, you have to moderate and edit certain content to make yourselves look better in the public eye! Lets face it, we are both racist toward one another and my hate does not drown out your hate for us!

    Who said Abagond or any of us hate you? And why should we like you since you were the one who started cursing us out?

    There is nothing glamorous about hate and I wish it didn’t exist, but it’s a continuing cycle that will drive in and on due to you hating me and me hating you back! It will never end, so long as you constantly talk about everything on your life which seems to all be race baited!

    If hate is not glamorous, why do you flaunt it here first?

    And if you think for one moment that any of us are going to feel sorry for your depressed behind, you are insane. You offended this blog and act like you’re the victim. Really? Are we supposed to hold your hand and tell you we’re sorry for being black? It’s never going to happen, sir.

    Everyone,

    Why do whites have such a big problem with black people? Many of them, like Jeff, love to blame black people for hating him. But I wonder if he did anything to make them hate him. Sometimes some people conveniently leave things to out to play the victim. Then again, he could be making the whole thing up.

    What has black people done to white people as a whole to receive this much hate? The response always comes back to black crime or a bad isolated incidence from being in contact with blacks. Any single incident or set of incidents is reason enough for them to hate an entire race as if 40 million black people are criminals in some way.

    I can no longer accept any white person who sees him/herself as a decent or good human being and yet, wish for violence against another group simply because they exist.

    The sad part is this crap doesn’t seem to want to end.


  676. @ Adeen: Comment deleted for use of racial slurs.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/


  677. No, I actually think it is both of our faults for feeding into it, but at my proprietary level of one single guy, I have come to the conclusion that it will never change, due to massive droves of racists on both sides of the color spectrum only taking in the negatives.

    I feel society is letting me down because of how we white people (especially men) are portrayed in modern theatrics and movies! I feel let down by society because of how socially acceptable it is in America to trash my heritage all while people continuously try to help you guys. I feel let down by society because I, nor any of my Mormon family never had anything to do with slavery or your past oppression, but yet somehow I am the one who gets blamed and shunned! My family didn’t migrate to America until very late after the civil war due to an Irish potato famine, and we were a loving group of people who accepted everyone.

    I had a really good black childhood friend named Samuel Rainey in elementary school! We used to draw cartoons together and fantasize about making the next big Nintendo game! We were both rejects and gravitated toward one another at that age, from about 3rd to 7th grade. Then one day on the city bus, on my way to high school a couple years later, and not seeing him for that duration, I saw him and got real excited! I greeted him and asked him where he’d been. He was all decked out in blue apparel and looked like a crip or something. He didn’t even say anything back! He shunned me when I tried to embrace him! Never saw him again after that! And this was the very beginnings of my racial attitude towards blacks! After that I just saw lots of whites being bullied by blacks in school and I would be that guy who helped these kids out any way I could! I just figured that with youth brings innocents and color blindness, but as we reach puberty we separate for whatever reason! My guess is that his gang would shun him if he made a white friend.

    How does a society fix this problem you ask Linda? Well I know that I think very similar to Morgan Freeman when he was asked this question in an interview a few years back. He said “stop talking about it”. As long as we are all dwelling on our past discrepancies, we so too will dwell in hate!


  678. Could this racist be anymore, text book?

    “How does a society fix this problem you ask Linda? Well I know that I think very similar to Morgan Freeman when he was asked this question in an interview a few years back. He said “stop talking about it”. As long as we are all dwelling on our past discrepancies, we so too will dwell in hate!”

    Someone post the, “kubaya anti-racist article to Jeff, no wait…I’ll do it.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/kumbaya-anti-racism/

    to the white racist, enjoy it….

    P.S.

    I’m surprised he didn’t quote MLK yet, he did quote Morgan freeman, though.

    Close enough…


  679. Text book huh? Now who’s making stereotypes dude? You see this is precisely my point! It will never change and it’s basically a doomed subject!

    And Brothawolf, I definitely am not a “paragon of goodness”, but then again I doubt you are either! The point here is the hate perpetuates even greater hate, and no I am no different. Yes I had a knee jerk reaction to the blog I read and it made me angry, so in turn I acted out, and insulted you with garbage language, but dude lol, come on man, be honest with yourself and admit that you have done it too! We all get angry at things we don’t like hearing, you are different to that. I got defensive when stumbling upon this site only to read not only blogs, but comments from a group of people basically saying they are better in every way and how whites deserve this and that! Who wouldn’t be a bit perturbed by that? I say stupid shit sometimes, and most of it is done out of anger, but not a legitimate feeling of downright racism and superiority! But who doesn’t say ignorant shit when they are angry, even if it is only sporadic? Your hate is no different than mine, it just has a different color.


  680. @Jeff

    Why are you even on here? You obviously have no life or potential. Get off! This blog is written for Black people, whom you hate, to talk about the issues that matter the most to Black people. Since you dislike Blacks so much, why don’t you go on Stormfront?

    I haven’t commented in a while but I will comment to defend my people against people like you. I don’t see the obsession you people have with my people yet you hate and look down on Blacks.

    And no, you aren’t a decent human being in my eyes. Most Whites are vile to me anyways so what is the point.


  681. @ sondis

    rofl, I was listening to that song a couple days ago,


  682. “Jeff,
    No, I actually think it is both of our faults for feeding into it, but at my proprietary level of one single guy, I have come to the conclusion that it will never change, due to massive droves of racists on both sides of the color spectrum only taking in the negatives.”

    Linda says,

    I think you’re right… Abagond did a post about the changes (or non-changes) in America in the last 50 years. That’s not a very long time — many of the people who lived before the end of America’s apartheid are still living.

    Change is slow. From my viewpoint, “not talking about it” is easier said than done — brushing dirt under a rug doesn’t make it go away.

    There is an older generation of black people who remember America’s Apartheid that ended in the 1960’s — the period where they had to fight for their equal rights not to have to walk thru back doors, could be arrested for being in the lobby of a “white” hotel or restaurant, or get shot for dating/ marrying white people, had family members falsely accused of crimes and were murdered at the whim of any one white, etc…

    most of these people are still alive, as well as the white people who lived in that Apartheid society.

    I watched an interview yesterday with Condoleezza rice… she was describing how her father and other black men had to form an armed neighborhood watch in order to scare off and protect themselves from the white men who would come to the black part of town to do them harm.

    “My father and his friends formed a brigade to keep the community safe. We lived in kind of cul-de-sac, and they would go to the head of each parts of the cul-de-sac, and they had their shifts—with their weapons out there to keep Night Riders out of the community—I don’t think they ever actually shot anybody, but they shot their guns in the air once in a while,” she explained.

    “That was how they protected—the police couldn’t protect you. Coming home one day from my grandparents’ house, a bomb—we felt a bomb go off and heard an explosion, and my father put us back in the car and started to drive away, and my mother said, ‘Where are you going?’ And he said, ‘I’m going to go to the police.’ And she said, ‘They probably set the bomb—what do you mean you’re going to the police?’”

    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/06/condoleezza-rice-how-could-these-people-hate-us-so-much/

    Condoleezza is a firm believer in “American Exceptionalism” and clearly doesn’t “hate” white people.

    Her statement about the police seem to echo what this new generation of black Americans are saying… they don’t believe much has changed, or they don’t trust the system because they feel it doesn’t seem to be working for them.

    The majority of black people in America are “low-middle to middle-class” black people and are educated (like Condoleezza’s family).

    Why do you think the younger black generation is more racially antagonistic than Condoleezza’s generation who faced verbal and physical assault on a daily basis?


  683. rofl lets take a vote who thinks this clown is worse than xpetaracist


  684. Lol no life huh? Well that’s only partially true since I’m retired military and going school full time, but yes I do have a life.

    As far as having no potential? Well it depends on what you mean by that. I am a gifted musician who has been playing guitar and drums for 20+ years and makes his own music and sells it, so I highly doubt I “have no potential” lol.

    Why am I on here? I don’t know really. I guess there seems to be at least one or two of you with “potential”! Lol probably not you, but whether you believe it or not, I did actually get online initially to find help and support for my very apparent hatred, so in my opinion that makes me pretty damn open minded to things and yes, I am a decent human being! We all say and do dumb things!


  685. @Adeen

    LOL I am not a new guest at all. I am a Black commenter but I am coming back because I haven’t commented in a while.

    I was talking about Jeff, not you. I know you. Nice to see you again (as long as you abide by Abagond’s comment policy).
    I was trying to avoid mentioning anyone by name, but I am sorry for the confusion.


  686. @Jeff

    Coming on a Black website and spewing ignorance doesn’t make you a decent human being. I hate White trolls like you. You have no business on here. This site is for Black people not you. I don’t see why Whites hate us so much yet come on our sites to distract the conversation and cause trouble

    If you resent Black people for whatever reason fine, that is your business but please don’t talk to me or any commenter here anymore. It gets on my nerves.


  687. @ sondis

    Of all the people on this blog, I think I understand how you feel the most and empathize very closely. I notice the same psychological problems you point out among blacks and I am distraught by the fact that it is at least ten times worse among Asians. I have to put up with whitewashed Asians who yap on and on to me about how certain cities have better restaurants/shopping/malls etc. and how they LOVE them because they’re “whiter”. White-minded Asian fools greet me with mock Asian accents, using language like “Herro!”, similar to Mock Ebonics. My blood boils every time some white asshole cracks a joke about an Asian teacher’s accent and the entire class full of whitewashed Asians starts laughing along. Everyday, I see sellout Asian women everywhere clinging to white men. (If these couples are not racist, why do neither Asian women nor white men have dark-skinned black/Hispanic/South Asian partners? Honestly, the two deserve each other.) Several of my Asian male friends have told me how they want to get themselves a white girl and how they only date white girls, not knowing how pathetic they sound. I get ticked off when I hear stupid Asian women say crap like, “Wow, what a terrible driver. It must be an Asian woman!”

    I thought I was bad enough when it comes to whitewashing. I believe you when you said once that most Asians are sellouts. Unlike you, I cannot bring myself to love Asians as much as you love blacks as most of my people have adopted white culture. You can count yourself lucky (in a twisted way) that whites have never tried to assimilate blacks in the way they have for Asians.


  688. Jeff

    I feel society is letting me down because of how we white people (especially men) are portrayed in modern theatrics and movies!

    So, movies that star a white male hero that comes to theaters every two weeks is not enough? Disney doesn’t have enough white princesses for you? Comic book heroes don’t have massive list of white male and white female heroes? Magazines are not presenting enough positive images of white celebrities and politicians? The news is not reporting on enough white people doing good deeds? There are not enough ‘Save the Children’ commercials featuring “good” white people? Having all characters in the Bible, including Jesus and God, portrayed as white not enough? All of that is getting you down???

    I feel let down by society because of how socially acceptable it is in America to trash my heritage all while people continuously try to help you guys.

    How has society trashed white people and how in the hey-ell have whites, as a whole, helped my people other than helping to stealing their culture, destroying their homeland, enslaving the people, and still expect them to love them?

    I feel let down by society because I, nor any of my Mormon family never had anything to do with slavery or your past oppression, but yet somehow I am the one who gets blamed and shunned!

    Maybe your family didn’t have anything to do with slavery, but you still reap the privileges that were spawned from it in the name of white supremacy.

    My family didn’t migrate to America until very late after the civil war due to an Irish potato famine, and we were a loving group of people who accepted everyone.

    Awww. Do you want a cookie?

    Jeff, you probably guessed that I don’t care about your crying and whining. If you want help, see a shrink. But we are not here to coddle you, especially not after your ranting entrance, obscene swearing, racial epithets and blatant misogyny. You may think you’re still a decent person, but your comments say otherwise, my friend.

    You said you hate blacks because they hate you. Ever wondered why other than lazily thinking that it’s because you’re white? Have you ever thought that maybe the reason is how you acted? I assumed not, assuming that it’s true.

    You come in here with your hate and expect us to apologize for somehow making you hate us. I personally don’t want to hear that. Nobody “made” you hate blacks. You made you hate blacks when you ignorantly group us all as one hateful collective that despises you for no reason.

    I don’t know you, and I’m guessing no one else here knows you either. Yet, you curse us out as if we’re thugs out to get you, not to mention you saying the most misogynistic things ever said because you’re afraid of blacks – all 40 million of them – would do you harm.

    Puh-lease!

    If you want to feel better and gain some insight as to the motive of blogs like this one, sit down, stop whining and listen, or in this case read. Maybe, just maybe you will understand that this is not about appealing to your “happiness”, or lack thereof.


  689. @Kiwi,

    Everyday, I see sellout Asian women everywhere clinging to white men.

    Unfortunately, they have kids, who have to listen to this stuff growing up.
    Imagine a male with an Asian mother and Caucasian father who cannot pass as white, but hears his mother praising whites all his life and disdaining Asian men, and has a Dad who has not lost any white privilege by marrying his Mom (in fact hears the white worshiping from his wife), yet the son has to listen to others saying those disdaining anti-Asian male stuff to HIM! How much self-hatred those parents must be teaching their son, esp. since he has no Asian male role model!

    I guess the same goes for Asian men who marry Caucasian women and who spew out all sorts of negative comments about Asian women. Thank God my Dad had no girls!

    I also wonder about daughters who have a black Dad who is constantly dissing black women.


  690. Lol there’s no hope! I wasn’t whining and crying as you so say, I was simply answering a question that, I think Lisa was her name, asked me. And you are wrong man I don’t need your approval or sympathy as you think I am trying to get from you or the people on this site. I was merely ATTEMPTING to settle my differences with you on a civil level! Whether you accept it or not is really up to you, but initially it was the sheer anger I had of this sites comments that directed my insults! But later, as I cooled off a bit, I realized I do not want to be that man, and saw what seemed to be a small act of good/reasoning in one of you! That one act of listening can really go along way! Plus, I guess I’m quite confused as to why you guys place such emphasis on making/belinging to a site which hates white people if you or the other patrons didn’t in fact have a purpose in remedying it somehow. What I mean by this is, why even bother talking about race relations if you do not want to hear the opinion of the other half? It doesnt fix anything! Why bother when your site accomplishes absolutely nothing except fueling more hate when guys like me accidentally stumble upon it while googling something?and yes that is exactly what happened, I stumbled upon this website not even knowing it was an “all black, and whites not welcome” fiasco!


  691. “Jeff,
    Why bother when your site accomplishes absolutely nothing except fueling more hate when guys like me accidentally stumble upon it while googling something?and yes that is exactly what happened, I stumbled upon this website not even knowing it was an “all black, and whites not welcome” fiasco!”

    Linda says,

    Jeff, I am not black American — and I like this site because Abagond sometimes writes about interesting topics that I don’t see else where.

    Also, many other commenters here are not black, not American, and add different perspectives to the topics (if the reader is interested other POV)

    Abagond, the author of the blog, likes to write about black issues — and for those of us who are interested in seeing through the eyes of black Americans, we come here as well.

    As a foreigner to you country, I am flabbergasted that you think white Americans are not part of the continued ongoing problem in this country. The hatred started with white America, so why would you expect black Americans to end it.

    also, have you read the comment sections of Yahoo and other news sites whenever a black person is mentioned in the article… the black person could be mowing the lawn or sitting in a chair

    and white commenters will throw out the N-word, call them “monkey” other derogatory words (like what you did) and talk about crime and welfare… so the as you stated, the crap goes both ways


  692. Jeff,

    Lol there’s no hope!

    You’re damn right there’s no hope. No hope for you apparently. You don’t seem to get it, and I don’t think you want to get it.

    I wasn’t whining and crying as you so say, I was simply answering a question that, I think Lisa was her name, asked me.

    So, I just imagined the following:

    Man you motherfuckers are so damned self entitled and blind! You are the ones creating the crimes!

    Hell you guys are always running around in little tribes and packs anyway, so yeah who wouldn’t fear 10 against 1? Dumb asses! This article just reenforces how much I hate you!

    You guys can go eat a bunch of dicks and choke on them for all I care!

    And that’s just a few examples of you (not) whining or crying.

    And you are wrong man I don’t need your approval or sympathy as you think I am trying to get from you or the people on this site. I was merely ATTEMPTING to settle my differences with you on a civil level! Whether you accept it or not is really up to you, but initially it was the sheer anger I had of this sites comments that directed my insults!

    See above for examples to show you’re still unloading such BS. You weren’t civil when you came here. So, why the hell should we be nice and polite to you?

    But later, as I cooled off a bit, I realized I do not want to be that man, and saw what seemed to be a small act of good/reasoning in one of you! That one act of listening can really go along way!

    Oooooh, please tell us Mr. White man. How can we learn the error of our ways? SMH

    Plus, I guess I’m quite confused as to why you guys place such emphasis on making/belinging to a site which hates white people if you or the other patrons didn’t in fact have a purpose in remedying it somehow.

    I can’t speak for Abagond, but this site is not a black version of Stormfront or Chimpout. However, I can speak for myself and possibly others, including Abagond, that we do not hate white people. We hate white racism, white supremacy, white privilege, the white racial frame and those who support it in some way or another.

    And this blog pales in comparison to actual white racism in all forms.

    So, even if you think this is an “anti-white” site, it will not oppress whites in the slightest the way whites have oppressed PoC since day one. So, stop worrying that you will one day wake up as a slave, given an African name and will be stripped of your identity.

    What I mean by this is, why even bother talking about race relations if you do not want to hear the opinion of the other half? It doesn’t fix anything!

    When it comes to talking about racism, the “other side” – the white side always tend to be WRONG AND CONDESCENDING! This is not about the exchange of ideas or hearing what you white people have to say about an issue you care or know little about. You make it all about injecting yourself in a conversation, not to learn any damn thing, but to derail and demean because your precious feelings are hurt. By doing that, nothing gets done or accomplished.

    Why bother when your site accomplishes absolutely nothing except fueling more hate when guys like me accidentally stumble upon it while googling something?

    So telling our truth is hate to you. Now I know your moral compass is broken.

    and yes that is exactly what happened, I stumbled upon this website not even knowing it was an “all black, and whites not welcome” fiasco!

    Yeah, yeah, yeah…First off, nowhere is there a “whites not welcome” sign here. This is unlike the segregated public facilities in the recent past where it has signs that read “Whites only” and “Coloreds only”, or the extreme recent past there black children are told not to swim in a pool. But here you are whining about how “hateful” this site is towards whites.

    It must really be nice to be white and sheltered.


  693. And Jeff,

    If there’s no hope for you, there’s no hope for us.


  694. Once again, Any critique of the(often destructive) white code of conduct is construed as “hate”. Also, note how fast genocide and “war” comes up. How quickly some people forgot(or want to forget) the history that makes today. I’d say I feel sorry for people like Jeff but truly I don’t because their reason for being bitter towards a whole group of people boils down to “they hurt my feelings on occasion”, fuqqing cry some more please since you can’t deal with people on a case by case basis like an adult. Even the “black best friend” and “my family never owned slaves” schit got thrown in there.


  695. Funny how that happened, I was born into this world not knowing it was an “all white, no other colors welcome” fiasco.


  696. Kiwi, I hope you wretch from your nausea the next time you see an interracial couple with an Asian person involved, I hope all you people, white , black, Asian, Mexican (in referance to the Mexican blog Abagond brought in where he runs off at the mouth about white men dating Mexican women ) , if you have these petty stereyotypes of interracial sex , I hope you all gag the next time you see the interracial couple with your ethnic background involved,that you hate so much…

    And , you all deserve each other…you all deserve to live together in your devided segragated worlds…you all are truly bretheren in arms…and I wake up every day in a multi cultured integrated interracial beautiful world , and, know , all of you are my enemies, and , I fight you with every fiber in my being

    I dont care if you are attractive on the outside, if you feel this way about interracial sex, you are ugly to the bone on the inside

    Jeff, I could crack on you and your stereytypes from dawn until dusk, except , you have been handily matched with chumpy petty steryeotypes of interracial sex , at least, as a fellow white drummer, ( let me guess, you play rock, right? please surprise me if im wrong ) I can tell you that groove you play when you hit the drums was invented by a black American…and you dont represent white people at all , you represent your own hang ups..

    No interracial couple on this earth deserves to be subjected to scrutinising judgements without knowing them personaly…period…

    I just got back from Salvador and saw so many beautiful interracial couples…I saw so many fine interracial couples in South Beach on my states tour, it just made me excited…I even saw gorgeous interracial couples in La Guardia and O Hara airports…just stunning, I know they are having hot juicy interracial sex

    you all get the fuk out of my life…oh no , excuse me, I will get the fuk out of your life…I will go out of my way to avoid you, and I know right where to go…as an interracial dater, sexer, marryeer, and pro creater for 50 years of my life, Ive learned exactly where I can go and you all are just some petty background noise to be shut out


  697. B.R.,
    Not sure where that reaction came from but I am willing to bet that this group would be the last to condem you or your family. If they do, then I would be surprised. For what it’s worth, I have no problem with interracial relationships. First because I am a product of several generations of interracial marriages and secondly because I sincerely believe that concept of race is false. Anyway, I think this discussion is off topic here so that is all I will say on it.


  698. Lmao! Coming from a guy that looks like he hasn’t quite made it past evolutionary physical features! I mean dude you’re ugly as hell!

    WTF. Is this ‘acceptable’ commentary?


  699. B.R.

    I am in an IR myself.
    I think what sondis, Kiwi, jefe, etc. are saying is just some realities that occur in some IR relationships.
    The problem is not IR relationships but the ‘white-is-right’ mentality that American society grows in, that makes some IR a problem. This view cause some men and women to purposefully or subconsciously choose white mates.
    For example, I knew this dark-skinned girl, who was teased all of her life for her skin color, who only dated WM. Now, she ultimately married one. And although she married him because she loved him, she obviously still has issues with skin tone. She admitted to me that she was glad her children wouldn’t be ‘tar-dark’ like her. Whether she admits it or not, she believes light skin is better.
    My own mother told my brothers not to date BW because of stereotypes. Years later, they are married to or in long-term committed relationships with WW. I know they care for their partners, but sometimes I wonder how much my mother’s words influenced their choices/who they pursued.
    Of course, people can have that mentality without being in an IR, but it manifest in harmful/obvious ways in an IR, especially, like jefe hinted, when children are involved. If your child looks more like one ethnicity.
    And it is also like a false band-aid. Some people believe that more IR means things are getting better. After all it is the seemingly easiest and most enjoyable way to fight racism: sex. Only it leaves white supremacy firmly in tact. And a POC who hates themselves because of their color will not be ‘cured’ by screwing a white man/woman. What is needed is dismantling the false notion that white is better.
    Colorism is a still a huge problem in the black community. The close to white features you have the better you look. This complicates IR.
    I am hit on all the time by divorced/separated white men. And I agree with sondis to some point, because I know I would never have been their first choice as a wife.
    Growing up in America, I don’t think most people can escape this white is right view and it has to actively be un-learned. I don’t think anyone can be truly free of it as wide-spread as it is. It is good to be aware of it, so I don’t unknowingly pass harmful ideas to my (future) children.
    Even I, myself, had some views in-line with whiteness just being better. I didn’t realize it until I came to this blog. Now I see whites as just people, and not a standard to aspire to. They really aren’t better than blacks/PoC. They just have ‘better marketing’ so to speak.
    Meanwhile, I’m not going to close my eyes and pretend it is not a problem because it makes me uncomfortable.
    I am not really offended by their comments, because I know they have truth to them. I wouldn’t tell people not to be in an IR but to be aware of these very real issues.
    Unfortunately, self-hate is very real. Remember the doll test? This will continue to be a problem until we achieve true equality. Until whites aren’t seen as basically good and blacks seen as inherently criminal, less than, and ugly.
    @abagond. You can delete this if it is too off-topic.


  700. The close to white features you have the better you look.

    Well, the reverse could happen also, esp. if someone is “light-skinned” or mixed race and wants to affirm their connection to the non-white side or to non-white people.
    I know personally of many cases, but perhaps a famous case is Malcolm X’s mother, who had a white father, but married a husband much darker than herself. She favored her darker children, and told Malcolm Little to get out in the sun so that he would not be so fair. If a light skinned person or markedly white looking person felt alienated from their white side, they might seek to identify more deeply with their non-white heritage and feel negative about any white features they might have. I believe Obama married an African-American woman to cement his identity with African-Americans, and I suspect that people like Mariah Carey might be doing that.
    It does not have to be white and non-white. It could apply, for example, to other combinations.


  701. @ Mstoogood4yall

    I am inclined to believe he is xprae. Disguising himself in hope of getting more data for his blog.


  702. @ Lonely Voice

    Very well said.


  703. sharina& Mstoogood4yall: I wondered when he would return, He said he was coming back as another screen name and identity. This is just sick to me.


  704. I am inclined to believe he is xprae. Disguising himself in hope of getting more data for his blog.

    Me too. In fact, I was wondering about the name he chose … ::(


  705. @ Linda

    I strongly believe that whites believe that anyone that has strong objections to them must be African American. They are the only group they feel can possibly be this way as they see it as the only group that was enslaved by their ancestors.

    I also have been wondering something lately in regards to those that are considered uncle tom’s or whitewashed…If blacks suddenly were on top and in-charge in society…would they jump ship and start going on and on about white crime?


  706. And like xpraetorius, he is a musician.


  707. @ Jeff: Comment deleted for use of a racial slur.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/


  708. Lmao! Coming from a guy that looks like he hasn’t quite made it past evolutionary physical features! I mean dude you’re ugly as hell!

    WTF. Is this ‘acceptable’ commentary?

    Re my question – this is to abagond.


  709. @ sharina & mary

    rofl, he may be or he could be someone that works with xray, didn’t he say it is different ppl that work on his profile, maybe they created this one idk, it’s crazy. This could be his other personality coming out.


  710. Lonely Voice:

    Thank you for putting some of the things i was saying in perspective.

    I am not against interracial relationships per say, i just want to bring awareness to black people about the agenda and deception that the majority of white people harbor for unsuspecting black people that they might not be privy too.

    Just because you have a few token, “good” relationships and marriages, between white and black people, doesn’t mean the majority of white people, don’t use black people as sexual objects and harbor actual hate for us as a race.

    I am not concerned to the small minority of blacks and whites that are in “good” relationships in America. I am only concerned with the majority of how white men and white women, look at and treat black people in America, in regard to sexual exploitation.

    We are always no good and can’t do any good but only when we are sleeping in white people’s beds, then we get some sort of praise, then when they’re done F*ucking us, they throw us into the trash by saying awful and foul things about us to other whites.

    This is Before and AFTER they sleep with black people, mind you!

    White people do this at two points in their life:

    1 When their young and want to “experiment” with black people ( not take the relationship seriously ) but they don’t tell black people this mind you, they hide that agenda and continue to use black people for sexual purposes. Then when the black person, say a black woman for instance, wants to give meaning to the relationship after a few years or so by getting married.

    That’s when the sh*t hits the fan and the white man shows his true motives for being with the black woman, so he leaves her and the next time she sees him, he’s married with children with a white woman.

    2 When their old and had their, “white children” and are divorced, over weight,wrinkled, no longer attractive and retired from their job.

    At this point in their life, they are not as concerned with the social aspect of dating or having sex with a black person, like they were in their youth.

    These white men and woman at this stage in their life, have absolutely NOTHING to offer a young black person. they’ve been married, so they don’t want to get married again. They’ve had “white children” so they don’t want to have children anymore, not to mention, have “black children”.

    Black women want children, want to be married and want a home to call their own.

    The majority of white people have no intentions of offering none of these things to a black person and blacks in America need to wake the hell up and understand, this is not a damn game their playing with us, its pure exploitation at its best!

    The ONLY thing they have to offer black people at this point are condoms and a bed to lie down with them in for sexual gratification.

    The stigma attached with dating a black person isn’t as strong as it was in their youth, not to mention their own white people want them anymore, so they look for “young” black people to screw and use for sex, because they feel blacks worship them, so they think that black people will come to them in droves and it doesn’t matter one bit that these black people they court are 20-30 years younger than them.

    White people are so egotistical and narcissistic, they will boldly feel that any black person wants them and will not reject them, regardless if they are old and grey and the black person is youthful, beautiful, supple, ripe and in prime physical condition.

    White people do this under white supremacy, that’s why whites can command the best of us and we get the worst of them.

    Jeff’s own comments proved one of my theories, he will sleep with a black women, yet detest her, her father and all blacks at the same time!

    I bet he smooth talked that black woman, he screwed that night and after the fact, bragged to all his white friends about screwing a black woman for the first time!

    Black people, don’t let these white or black people that are not from America or born in America, sway you from protecting yourself from being used and abused by the white man. They are only outsiders looking in from outside and they will NEVER know what its like to live as a black person in America.

    America is the most racist nation on God’s blue planet and it manifests itself in ways, people aren’t from here, haven’t been born here, been raised here, can’t and don’t understand.

    I am tired of hearing people from other countries, speak on our experiences and try to push their views on black Americans. You haven’t lived as a black American, so don’t look at my experience threw your experience in your country.

    I do believe that white supremacy is global and by no means, i am saying that racism is only a issue in America. what i am saying is that racism is concentrated in America, therefore its effects are more, devastating to the black that live here, than say any other country in the world.

    Time waits for no man….


  711. @ Omnipresent

    No, it is not acceptable commentary. At first I let all of Jeff’s commentary through so you all would know what kind of person he is. I am sick of being told I am “imagining” things – by the Jeffs of the world, no less – when I get stuff like this all the time. Since this thread IS about “American racism against blacks”, I think it is relevant material. At this point, though, the comment policy applies to Jeff him as much as anyone.


  712. No. it is not acceptable commentary. At first I let all of Jeff’s commentary through so you all would know what kind of person he is. I am sick of being told I am “imagining” things – by the Jeffs of the world, no less – when I get stuff like this all the time. At this point, though, the comment policy applies to him as much as anyone.

    Fair enough. I probably made an error in highlighting it but I was also surprised that no-one else did but again, maybe almost ‘expect’ comments like this so they don’t react.


  713. @All

    White trolls like Jeff is one of the reasons why I dislike and distrust White people. They always have a ulterior motive to everything they do. They may be nice in your face but go behind our backs and talk bad about the Black race. I don’t see why they come on our blogs and sites to cause trouble when they hate us so much?

    I live around White people so I know everything about these people. They are not good people. Most of them think they are better than us either through their words and actions. We really need to separate from these people but I don’t think we can ever completely separate from them if you know what I mean. They hate us yet they are so obsessed with us that they wouldn’t leave us along.

    All I want them to do is leave me and other Black people alone and stay away from us. I am sick of their mind games, lies, deceit and ways!


  714. You guys ALL so lost! You’re right, I along with many of my white brothers and sisters do not feel the slightest bit of empathy or sympathy towards you. With the rare exception of Lonely Voice, who for some strange reason (probably his older age) feels guilty for being white. I am done trying to reason with you, it is obvious and apparent that it cannot be done! You guys have fun in your, what seems to me, an angry, tortured, doomed and gloom lives. Every thing you guys do or say in this world somehow revolves around how much you can’t stand white people! Lol I will admit I do have random bouts of ranting how much I can’t stand you either, but at least I have other hobbies and don’t let it take control of EVERYTHING I do or think! So have fun whining about your apparent injustices and keep receiving all the American benefits that white people gave to you. Please, by all means, continue to kill each other in record numbers and infect your neighborhoods with drugs, because if you keep this up you will never catch up to the Hispanic community in raw numbers! You see, ass one of you mentions in a previous reply, you are right, white people are the minority of the entire world, but here is one thing you people are forgetting: we are the reason why most people in the Western Hemisphere even had a chance to be alive today! Because if it weren’t for the God forbidden white trolls as you say, than you would either not exist, or you would be kidnapped somewhere in Nigeria to be an even worse slave, a child Soldier slave! The grass is always greener, and you guys whine about living a million times better than any Sub-Saharan African! Why after thousands of years can’t people of African descent get their act straight? This is what we white honkeys wonder. Why can’t you just live and appreciate the things you have? Their are minorities in every country and they all preach about social injustices! Guess what? If they didn’t like it, they could always search for a new home, just as you can! But unfortunate as it is for you all, not a lot of countries really want you there and would probably treat you the same way, given you loud, vengeful, and anti-authoritarian ways! They probably wouldn’t admit that last thing right now, but give them you guys in packs and in few years they would have the same issues! You continue to drowned in your sea of sorrow and anger, for in all honesty, it shouldn’t affect me in anyway, and since I’m in your category of people who have the true power here in America, I assume I could just ignore your hatred toward me!

    Oh and to that Race traitor Lonely Voice, please forgive me, as I usually do not talk to my elders this way, but you sir are worse than them in my book! You are the reason they even have this type of hatred and animosity toward US! You constantly remind them about the past, instead of telling ALL people to move forward. You are a backwards thinker and with this mentality, they will NEVER get out of their anguish! By the way, drums were invented by Africans? Please tell me how you know this Mr Archaeologist! Are you like the immortal guy on “Man From Earth”? Have you seen everything? I’m guessing not! By the way that whole thing about all humans descending from the same man Nd woman in Africa 5 million years ago is just a theory, and I really would have nothing against that theory if there were some way to prove it, but that will never happen because you see, archaeologists are continuously finding new evidence of human history, and it just keeps getting older and older! Places like Asia, and Europe! The only reason they are digging up more bones and artifacts in Africa, is because the items usually discovered there all all usually found in the drier climates, thus preserving them of natural decay and erosion! Drums have been around since the dawn of humans with two hands, maybe a stick, and something around which reverberates, or creates a percussive sound! Which by the way is everything around! So quit trying to educate me on pre-history when you don’t know jack!


  715. You know. The sad part (or just extremely funny part) is that all the racial slurs and hate filled remarks actually came from him. The level of delusion that these individuals go through is absolutely amazing.


  716. And I am starting to believe that Malcolm X was right. Integration doesn’t work because you don’t integrate with your enemies ie the White man. You stay away from them! That is common sense and logical! It didn’t make sense for Black people to start integrating with these people at all.

    The more I read Malcolm X’s writing and teachings, the more it speaks to me somehow in an eerily way. It really does. The Black Community would have been in much better shape if they had followed Malcolm X’s way. Trust me, it would have been. Instead Black people started to integrate with these people and stopped supporting their businesses in their communities and start moving into White neighborhoods.

    Now look at the Black Community in 2013: It is in shambles!

    High out of wedlock birth rate

    Black on Black crime is at an all time high

    Black children grow up in homes without fathers and single mothers

    Black women wearing weaves and relaxing their hair to the point that they are bald

    Black men putting down Black women and dating non Black women to seek validation from Whites and the media

    Black children not being able to graduate on time

    Black men and Black women engaging in so called gender wars to see who will win in this racist society and gain approval from Whites.

    Black women aborting their children in their wombs

    The slow acception of homosexuality in our communities.

    Black kids looking up to the media as the way to fit in

    Rap music went from being a good genre of music that was creative and spoke about life and hardships of being Black to this Pop, anti Black, soulless, party like music that degrades Black women and promotes misogny, colorism and sexism.

    Black Youth are in trouble today in America today: We are in the middle of an economic crisis, race relations are getting worse and most of all, our generation is going to have to pay the debts this country has as well as future generations.

    I maybe be 17/18 years old but I wanted to discuss why integration was bad for our community. We should have never integrated with White America. They aren’t our friends. It doesn’t even make sense integrating with White people, they are our oppressors.

    I don’t blame integration for all of the problems in the Black Community however I do blame it for much of the problems in the Black Community.

    Before integration, 80% of Black kids graduated on time. 75% of Black children were raised in two parent homes with married parents opposed to 73% of out of wedlock kids today in the Black Community. Black people valued God, education and family before integration. And most of all, the Black Community stuck together back then too.

    Now we have these money driven Uncle Toms in our Community who vote for Democrats like Obama, who doesn’t even care about our struggle, and promote destructive Rap music to the Youth.

    I maybe 17/18 but I am seeing things and so far, I don’t like it.


  717. OMG, this guy sounds so much like x-P, even in the degree of verbosity. :P
    Ha-ha, he’s back :P


  718. @ Jeff

    “Why after thousands of years can’t people of African descent get their act straight?”

    Why after 300 years of trying hard to keep African Americans down in America and initiating white supremacist policies across society are there still so many poor whites across America? Why are whites still the most likely to be arrested and abuse drugs…I mean, you’ve had a huge head start and you still have these problems in your community. What gives?


  719. Jeff, you dont know squat about drums, any two bit dolt knows drums came from Africa, but even more, a concept of how to play drums came from Africa,tied to dance , was developed , can be found East to West and into the South with traces going North in Africa, and, because of a huge slave trade, the black african concepts of groove and dances has dominated every country that brought african slaves to the Americas…especialy the USA…if you dont get that you are a dummy of the highest order..actualy , you are a race traitor, because you , and people who think like you have let white people down badly

    Anne and Lonely voice ( I beleive Lonely Voice described herself as a black woman)…it doesnt matter if you know some people who have inner issues, as well as what you analyse about yourselves, you cant super impose that on just any or possibly most interracial couples as though that is their problem also…that would be ridiculas, and I wont stand for it , and no, i dont get sondis, Kiwi, and Jeff and Trojan Pam , who wrote a book about it and is obviously obcessed with it, and jeff and others are making any distinctions

    They shoot from the hip, with some jive percantgas this percentages that, which is bs…I dont give one flying fuk if they dont want interracial relationships themselves…they all need to.back the fuk off of the generalisations…quit the bullsh!t Freud /Fannon amateur psycho analysis…you can look in the mirror and analyse yourself, but nobody has the right to think they can analyse me, the wonderful women Ive been with , or analyse any black male for dating and sex desicians

    The fuked up part is , people talking this crap are alresdy making pre judgements just if they see an interracial couple…political agendas dont belong in the bedroom or about peoples sex desicians…

    I never implicated everyone on this blog, I said specificly the people who have dished up ridiculas sexual stereyotypes …I made that clear…and its bullsh!t

    No , people arnt making the distinctions, how dare anyone think they can psycho analyse why most people are in an intwerracial relationship?


  720. I can assure you boss man that I am not another person. I am simply a regular guy named Jeff. I keep reading your assumption of me begin this mystical expreatorius character, but you are failing to realize that many many many of us think as I do and probably reiterate a lot of the same type of verbiage or content as myself! You see, we do talk to each other about this subject, and most of us are convinced that yes you’re ancestors had a horrible experience, but yet the newer generations have every opportunity to assimilate and become productive members of society! We all agree that you dwell in your hatred toward us and that it is a complete lost cause to even try and help you! And yes I did say “assimilate”, because we all have to eventually do this in any community in order to get along! White people embrace your crap garbage music in record numbers nowadays, they even go as far as to dress and talk like you (sickening), but I’ve seen this time and time again with white youth…. The more we try to assimilate with you, the more we realize that you have never had any good intentions for us. White people sometimes go through adolescence confused, because they themselves didn’t have a male role model either, so they act out in rebellion by trying to become the very people their parents said to stay away from! The point is that white people try to assimilate with you even to this modern day, but nothing except negativity comes from that, and after they realize their error, they end up seeing eye to eye with guys like me! It’s a never ending cycle! But no boss man, I am not your elusive x-p guy that lives at the bottom of Loch Ness!


  721. abagond, normally i don’t even bother, asking about a comment i make, being in moderation but its happen twice. I edited the first draft and submitted it but i still get caught in moderation.

    There was no cursing or swearing or links, I am curious if i am being silenced.


  722. People like Ann, Jeff and Lonely Voice is one of the reasons why I believe in Black separatism. It would be a good idea for Black people to live apart from White people and build their own nation. Integration and multiculturalism doesn’t work.

    @Jeff

    How come your people can’t live my people alone? I honestly think something is wrong with White people. Most mass murderers and serial killers in the world are White men! Explain why is that? How come White women are the ones who benefit the most from Affirmative Action yet you guys oppose it? How come you call us apes and monkeys when you are the ones who are part Neanderthals? How come you hate us so much but are obsessed with us?
    Your kind is the one who can never get their actions straight! You guys are the ones who enslaved Black people, killed Native Americans and stole their land, colonized and took over India, Latin America etc. And spread your ideas of White supremacy!
    From your creation, you guys have been the TRUE barbarians and beasts! You guys know that too. That is why you stereotype Black men as the most dangerous because in reality White men are the most dangerous and want to put that stereotype on Black men. Honestly I believe the nature of White people, well MOST of them, is to kill, steal and destroy!

    More and more, I find myself agreeing with Nation of Islam and Malcolm X on Whites however I am not Muslim though. I don’t believe in the Muslim religion.


  723. @ sondis: Hmm……. Maybe because you’ve been extremely naughty. lol!


  724. on Sun 8 Sep 2013 at 19:50:53 mstoogood4yall

    Hey ms mary how ya doin?


  725. How are you doing Mstoogood4yall and Mary?


  726. Adeen: I’m good, you are on fire today. lol.


  727. @Mstoogood4yall: How are you today?


  728. on Sun 8 Sep 2013 at 20:07:31 mstoogood4yall

    I’m good I ordered the Malcolm x bio by alex haley and another book called brainwashed, I can’t wait to read it.


  729. @ Sondis

    I have been have trouble getting to the Internet. I put your comment through:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/american-racism-against-blacks/#comment-191241


  730. @Mary

    LOL I am. I am sick of the way Whites act and treat Blacks and others. I am sick of how they act all innocent about the way their people systematically oppressed other races in the past and still continue to do so. I am sick of the way they act all morally righteous when they are the least moral people on the planet. I am sick of their obsession with us yet they hate us. I am sick of the way they stereotype Black males as dangerous when I am more afraid of White men than anything else! Most serial killers in the world are White males not Black males! I am sick of the way they say us Black females are unattractive and that other races of women are more attractive when Black females are the most beautiful! I am sick of the way they force their narrow beauty standards on other people. I hate the way they talk, act and think too. I hate the way White females laugh and talk. These cave bitches sound like Valley Girls when they talk! lol! I hate the way White men think they are the best and that every woman wants them.

    This is from a tired, young Black woman. I am definitely tired of them and it is sad that I have to live around them in a small town. I want to go to a more diverse area to get away from these people.


  731. @mstoogood4yall: Brainwashed is excellent, one of my favorites by Tom Burrell, if this is the same one.


  732. “Black people, don’t let these white or black people that are not from America or born in America, sway you from protecting yourself from being used and abused by the white man. They are only outsiders looking in from outside and they will NEVER know what its like to live as a black person in America.

    America is the most racist nation on God’s blue planet and it manifests itself in ways, people aren’t from here, haven’t been born here, been raised here, can’t and don’t understand.

    I am tired of hearing people from other countries, speak on our experiences and try to push their views on black Americans. You haven’t lived as a black American, so don’t look at my experience threw your experience in your country.”

    Linda says,

    Not sure if I am included in this statement, Sondis… either way, I’ll keep this classy…this comment you made is Ignorant!

    There is enough of a divide in the real world between black Americans and “foreign” black/brown communities — I am glad a blog like this exists to try to pull us together instead of apart because we all experience white racism in this country

    for progress to happen, there should be no room for the “who is the biggest victim” Olympics — trust, whites don’t reserve their hate for black Americans only — Being that US of America’s is a racist country, anyone who comes here who is not “white” gets the treatment

    Anyone who is not white, who steps onto the shores of the USA, and lives here “understands” Very Well what this country is all about…

    Many of the black civil rights leaders and people who you black Americans “revere” and respect, aren’t even “native” black Americans — they were foreign born or their parents were immigrants to America :

    Marcus Garvey, Hon. Louis Farrakhan, Malcolm X, Stokley Carmichael, Claude McKay, Colin Powell, Bob Marley, many others — according to your words, these people must of been clueless about racism in America because they weren’t real black Americans or born in the USA

    Abagond is also of “foreign-born” black descent

    We got back from Jamaica on Friday at four in the morning. It was the first time the boys have ever been to Jamaica! They got to see aunts and cousins and so forth.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/09/09/back-from-jamaica/

    So, Obviously, “foreign” black and brown people can Add Value to any discussion since foreign black and brown people have already made contributions that were/are beneficial to black Americans in the USA.

    Looking at views from “different angles” adds perspective – sometimes to solve a problem, you need “fresh” eyes.


  733. Abagond,

    I’m just saying, but you may as well ban Jeff as he seems to contiunue using racial slurs.


  734. Yes ms mary it is the same one by ur husband tom roflmbao,


  735. @ Linda

    What you said often makes me wonder if I am just different because I actually feel a sense of embrace towards foreigners rather than some “you are different” attitude that others have. I seek to learn from them and grow from knowing them compared with some things I hear or read from others.


  736. @ Adeen

    “People like Ann, Jeff and Lonely Voice is one of the reasons why I believe in Black separatism.”—Jeff I get but what has Anne or Lonely Voice done or said that was wrong or bad?


  737. mstoogood4yall: Mr. Burrell is a married man, but he is a successful man who had his own business, he owned his black owned advertising company. That is what I admired about him.


  738. oh u admire him so much u took his last name as ur username aw, I shall call myself mstoogood4yall El-shabazz. let me stop, or what ever last name this guy has yes the doctor is in . http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/eye-candy-tattoo-boys-1.jpg?w=500&h=884


  739. mstoogood4yall: Alright then ms El-shabazz, lol.


  740. No worries dude, I will do the honors of leaving your scapegoat site! Ni need to ban me lol, since this will be my last post! I’ve already wasted enough of my life on people who won’t ever see the truth. I was just in the middle of unfollowing this entire blog anyway right as I got this your message, so I just want to say thank you guys for contributing to an even more racist American white man! You have successfully been given a job well done, because now I am 100% solidified as to why you people are worthless, self righteous, egotistical nut jobs! You should do this more often to more white people coming in here! Lol that would be awesome for guys like me who actually now want to gather my brethren up against the likes of your people!


  741. @ Brothawolf

    I think it is a matter of putting him on display. I notice with these types they tend to highlight the essence of themselves in their post. If you take notice everything he stated that one of us has done is actually things he has done and just continues to do. It is almost comical. Not to mention that he has been claiming he was leaving for quite a few posts now and has not left yet. It is like xprae all over again and frankly I am still not convinced that it is not him. Long posts saying nothing, claiming something was said that was not etc. you know the whole spiel


  742. But one thing I notice about most if not all trolls if they all suffer from some level of insecurity. They seek out places for the soul purpose of causing chaos and confusion. To give them the attention they would normally not get anywhere else. To feel accomplished in something where they are lacking. Trying to bring down or put down others to make themselves feel a sense of superiority.


  743. @B.R.
    “..what you analyse about yourselves, you cant super impose that on just any or possibly most interracial couples* as though that is their problem also…”

    Might be true, if colorism wasn’t so wide-spread or if people weren’t taught that that being as close to white in appearance and behavior is the only way to become acceptable. Even x’s five points stated as much.
    You’re basically saying you can put a candle in the blistering heat and have it not melt. This idea is taught through almost every outlet in the media, in conversations, in family life, you name it, it’s been there.
    Now, a person CAN escape this kind of thinking but it isn’t as simple as ‘his problem, not her problem’ . If that is the society they grew up in, unless a person unlearns it, they are prone to have at least some issues with blackness or what it means to be black.
    *I focused on individuals not couples, please re-read my post.

    “on just any or most…”

    I said ‘some’ in my response. Or maybe you are talking about another commenter? I am not sure which places you are responding to me and which places you’re talking at everyone.
    Still, I am not going to pretend people of color living in a white dominated society *rarely* have problems with their black identity. Yes, alot of them won’t say they want to be ‘white’ but they will wish they were lighter, had a looser hair curl pattern/wavy hair, a slimmer nose etc. I don’t think most people with these issues want to be ‘white’ per se but less (stereotypically) black. They want to be a ‘whiter’ version of themselves in other words.
    Since a good amount of black people*, even if they date other blacks, struggle with these things, I would be dishonest to think people in IRR are the magical exception.
    *I would say most have at some time in their lives or currently.

    “people talking this crap are alresdy making pre judgements just if they see an interracial couple…political agendas dont belong in the bedroom or about peoples sex desicians…”

    Political agendas??? Maybe you are talking about other comments.
    I would never tell woman who she can or cannot date. A BW has agency and autonomy over her own body.
    That is not my issue.
    The issue is people, in IRR or not, who struggle with accepting their racial identity. I care more about that than the ‘image’ or ‘pre judgements’ of IRR sex.
    And I’m still not sure why you had an issue with Kiwi, when it was clear he was talking about self-hating Asians.
    And you don’t seem to get my point that a person can be in an IRR for the right reasons and still struggle with issues of being a PoC. They are not mutually elusive.
    You’re speaking as though we were already living in a level playing-field. No one would be having this conversation if we were. There are still power imbalances and there is still a very euro-centric/white model of beauty, religion, life etc. And it is very hard to escape and not be influenced by it.


  744. @sharina
    “Jeff I get but what has Anne or Lonely Voice done or said that was wrong or bad?”

    I would like to know too, lol.
    I’m a little disturbed at being compared to a troll.


  745. Sharina,

    I think it is a matter of putting him on display. I notice with these types they tend to highlight the essence of themselves in their post. If you take notice everything he stated that one of us has done is actually things he has done and just continues to do. It is almost comical. Not to mention that he has been claiming he was leaving for quite a few posts now and has not left yet. It is like xprae all over again and frankly I am still not convinced that it is not him. Long posts saying nothing, claiming something was said that was not etc. you know the whole spiel

    Yep, he’s not a total loss. He could always be a horrible example. He’s another classic case of projection and hypocrisy. Very typical of white racist trolls like Jeff with severe emotional hangups and fragile egos.

    Most of those who say they’re leaving, come back for more punishement until ultimate their nonsense is silenced. He may come back and cry some more about us bad blacks being mean to him while he acts like a total jerk to us.

    But one thing I notice about most if not all trolls if they all suffer from some level of insecurity. They seek out places for the soul purpose of causing chaos and confusion. To give them the attention they would normally not get anywhere else. To feel accomplished in something where they are lacking. Trying to bring down or put down others to make themselves feel a sense of superiority.

    Cyberbullying. It’s what they love to do because they can’t or won’t love anything else, not even themselves. They need to bully others to feel happy. Otherwise, they’ll spend their time hating the world.

    Jeff,

    No worries dude, I will do the honors of leaving your scapegoat site! Ni need to ban me lol, since this will be my last post! I’ve already wasted enough of my life on people who won’t ever see the truth. I was just in the middle of unfollowing this entire blog anyway right as I got this your message, so I just want to say thank you guys for contributing to an even more racist American white man! You have successfully been given a job well done, because now I am 100% solidified as to why you people are worthless, self righteous, egotistical nut jobs! You should do this more often to more white people coming in here! Lol that would be awesome for guys like me who actually now want to gather my brethren up against the likes of your people!

    Don’t let the door hit ya where the Creator split ya. Have fun feeling sorry for yourself and hating black people because you’re more comfortable hating than loving. Good luck on being the racist cyberbully that you are. Take care, young prick. :-)


  746. Linda

    My family is from the Caribbean, but I was raised here in AmeriKKKlan. We are just as important as any Black American with families that was here in this country for 400 years. We can add some good points and stragety in the fight against White supremacy.


  747. @sharina,
    I was wondering the same thing. Even B.R. Is angry at me. I’m not here to fight anyone so a clue about that would help.


  748. @Sharina

    I am sick of White trolls like Jeff coming on here and distracting the conversation. Anne and Lonely Voice have no business on here as White people. This blog was made for us and other POC to discuss the issues that matter to us.

    This is one of the reasons why I dislike and don’t trust White people. They are always obsessed with us yet hate us.


  749. Adeen,

    Anne is from Trinidad and Lonely Voice is black American (I believe)

    slow-down, grasshopper :-)


  750. Sharina,

    I’m like you, I enjoy hearing from people from different cultures – that should not be considered strange.

    I won’t lie — I had a hard time dealing with both black and white Americans when I first got to USA because to me, both were ignorant and hateful towards foreigners … black Americans would call black foreigners “African porch monkeys” and other lovely words that they must of picked up along the way from white people.

    It took me living in UK and Europe, meeting other black/brown people, hearing their stories about their culture and how it was affected by white Imperialism (supremacy), seeing how we all had to deal with racism in Europe, and seeing how we all fit in the British commonwealth” paradigm, that gave me a tolerance for trying to understand black Americans —

    I started by learning about American history and how it affected black Americans, why both black and white Americans “behave” as they do … I made friends and we compared what we experience in the US.

    I didn’t have to try to understand, I could have chosen to remain ignorant like the rest of my Latino and Caribbean brethren who weren’t concerned and blindly listened to the “white noise” coming from white America.


  751. @ Adeen: It troubles me to read that you hate. Remember hate is poison. If you hate, then this makes you no better than the racist trolls. I think you are better than that.


  752. @linda,
    I’m surprised you remembered that I am Trinidadian. I still don’t get why my name was included. But I can leave it at that.


  753. @Mary

    I don’t hate Whites. I just dislike them, plain and simple. I dislike their ways


  754. @Anne

    Sorry for your confusion, I thought you were a White person. My bad. I am Jamaican by the way. I am so sorry I confused a fellow Caribbean for a White person. Now I regret that.

    @Mary

    I don’t even hate Whites. I don’t hate any race or group, that is a strong word. I never said I hated White people. I just don’t like them. I don’t see the reason to like or trust them at all. The Zimmerman trial verdict woke me up to the fact that White people don’t even see us as human beings.


  755. @Adeen
    I’m first generation American with parents from the West Indies.
    I spent a great part of my life hearing negative things about African Americans…mostly from my own family. But also when I went to a pre-dom. white ‘christian’ school and some college experiences.
    I guess you could say the Zimmerman verdict woke me up too. It was how I found this site.
    I am trying to learn more and understand more about black American history.


  756. @Lonely Voice
    I am also first generation of West Indian parents too. I also want to know more about Black American history too.

    I was born in the North but moved to the South when I was little. The place was different from living in the North because it was full of White people. And I had bad encounters with White people.

    I don’t dislike all White people but I dislike them in general. The White girls in my high school bullied me for no reason. I don’t see what they had against me because I didn’t do anything to them at all. I had some bad experiences with White people living in my town. They seem to dislike me for no reason except the fact that I was a Black female that made good grades and didn’t fit the stereotypes.

    The verdict of the Zimmerman trial woke me up to the hypocrisy of White America. Human life doesn’t matter to them unless the person looks like them. I am still angered by the verdict and the fact that MOST White people agree with the verdict because they don’t see Black people as human beings.

    I see everyone as human beings but sadly not everyone especially White people see me as a human being because my pigment and features are different from theirs.


  757. Lonely Voice, welcome fellow “yardee” – so I know you understand where I am coming from, and I recognize your struggles.

    Anne, but of course I remember… there are only so many of us Caribbean’s here who regularly comment.


  758. @ Linda

    There are more than you think :P


  759. Anne and LonelyVoice, I thought I made it clear I was talking about people purpetuating these stereotypes…Anne, where did I direct anger at you?

    LonelyVoice, self esteem issues , are something we all go through for differant reasons, and the media and comercial world is very adept at making us feel inadequate…and I still say that that doent make anyone here experts at psycho analysing individuals, couples or groups of people…and, who sleeps with who for what ever reasons are some of the least important issues to be dealing with as far as the real important political issues worth battling over….

    What if Kiwi’s political agenda and point of view of “whitened Asians” is flawed? I see plenty of black Americans get static because they are getting ahead in the business world as being “whitened” , or “uncle tom” or what ever..which many times is unfounded and comes from a flawed ideology..who is to really judge what degree is selling out to the white man, or just playing the ststem? I dont trust the cut and dried hack judgements and stereotypes being thrown around with flawed weak political agends spilling out as fact and unshakable truth….Im suggesting you should be aware of that , LonelyVoice, not assuming you are one of the people spewing these things

    These stereotypes have very little to do with the many black woman Ive dated and had relationships with in my lifetime…I never heard these black women bash black men or belittle them…ever….while some women I have been with dealt with the hair issues , that hardly tranlates into dating interracialy because of low self esteem..I could easily recognise as many media generated self esteem issues in myself about my apearance…I am not insensitive to what any black person in a white dominated society can feel , I dont say it doesnt exist, I say its an individual to individual case..and self esteem issues are dealt with by turning the roof brain off, because it wont cease to bombard you with what is wrong with you..it is what it is programmed to do, and there are techniques from many sources and cultures for turning the roof brain off…

    Black Brazilian women have as much racism and colorism issues to deal with as black American women , they just dont have these issues about dating white men , there are no rules set in stone, or I would like to see the people pushing the stereotypes try and tell a black Brazilian woman dating a white man that there is something wrong about doing that, and I would like a ring side seat to what will happen next…these political theories and pseudo psycho analysis about the pshychosamaticism of interracial sex , are as weak as the expertice of the people plowing them out

    I disrespect them, they are pathetic and disgusting and I will get the fuk away from anyone expousing bs stereotypes about interracial sex


  760. @B.R.,
    I took the fact that my name was included in the post to mean that your complaint was directed at me. If you go back and look at my comment to you, I said I have no problem with inter racial relationships. I am not sure where you got the impression that I was against them or that I was pushing any theory about them. I think you may have misunderstood what I said.


  761. I agree with lonely voice, black people have some self hate issues that we all deal with from time to time. People can have high self esteem but lead a false life and live denying themselves. I see some women with weave that have confidence yet u talk to them and they talk about their natural hair in a negative light and when the weave comes out they act completely different and are more quiet. From the time we are young we are taught white is right, from stories about white jesus to learning whitewashed history about ourselves. Even with some pro black ppl they have self hate and will only listen to lighter skinned ppl that talk or just date lighter skinned ppl. Yes there are SOME people that date interracially because they’ve been called darkie, tar, etc by other ppl and by other blacks, so some date interracially or date lighter skinned ppl to compensate for their feeling of not being acceptable beauty. I’ve seen some ppl that just date light skinned or white because they don’t want their kids to deal with the issues of being dark skinned the way they had to. Yes we have some black ppl that don’t date dark skinned blacks and tell them they are ugly then when another race sees their beauty those same blacks that dissed that person will be looking crazy. Everybody deserves somebody, but we gotta recognize the imbalances that exist as well as the colorism and anti blackness and how to solve that.


  762. I am rethinking disliking Whites. I don’t know. I shouldn’t judge people based on their race but on their character. I do admit to having bad experiences with White people because I live in a mostly White area and I hate living in it. I want to graduate from high school, move out and try to help out the Black Community.

    I want to be a journalist when I get older and help out the community. I shouldn’t be against White people. I decided not to be against them because they don’t know our struggles or understand them. I have to be against the White supremacist system that oppresses Blacks and minorities not White people. That is what I should fight.

    For any White commenter, sorry if I disrespected any of you. I should be against the system and from now on, I will be against the System not White people


  763. However I still believe in Black Nationalism because Black people need to have pride in their race. I am sick of the colorism and divide in the Black Community and the self hate too. I believe Black people should also build their own businesses and stop relying on the government too. We need to have equal economic footing with Whites but I doubt that would ever happen since White people had a head start before us in this.

    And forgive me by the way, I am only eighteen so I am in a phase but I do want to help out the Black Community.

    There is no point hating or disliking Whites. I do agree with Martin Luther King that we should judge others by their character not their skin color however will racism ever go away from our society?


  764. Honestly I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my chest when I decided to stop disliking Whites based on the bad experiences I had with them. I really don’t want to become what I hate but I don’t know. I hate where I live though. Most of the Whites in my small town are very racist.


  765. Gen, good to know… sometimes I feel like an “Island” here :-)

    yes, I know, bad pun


  766. I judge white people by their deeds, what they say and what they don’t do and they never fail to prove me right about them. You’re on the right path, Adeen.

    Don’t even consider dating a white man, he was use you for sex and dump you in the trash and call you a nigg3r to your face, after he’s done using you.

    Just like Jeff did to that black women he claims to have had sex with, yet he hates black people and still had sex with a black woman!

    White people always act nice around black people, a little “too nice” you know what I’m talking about.

    Then behind closed doors, they talk about black people is the worst ways.

    I believe black people need to be in relationships and marriages with each other, before we can even begin to heal ourselves, we need to learn how to love each other, all over again.

    The white man stole the love we had for one another and its up to us to claim it back. We will not be able to heal as a race by fraternizing with the very people that would be the death of us!

    Their solution is to erase our race and culture, via mixing with them as to not have black skin and features. This is what’s behind the statement when they say, we should all be one race of people, so we should race mix so everyone will be the same, hue.

    I say bull spit! We need to preserve our race by multiplying like the Latino race and not dilute out race with the white race, so our numbers can dwindle and continue to not have any power out of low numbers.

    These white foreigners like Linda can easily be for race mixing and allowing white men and women to use black men and women in America, because they could care less, they are white and benefit from white supremacy, so its easy for them to preach all that Kumbaya anti-racism via interracial relationships and mixing with the white man, so black people as a race won’t exist anymore.

    They don’t live here, they don’t live as black people, so its easy for them to preach their feel good movie.

    I’ve seen this movie before and i don’t like the plot, the writing and the ending.

    Linda, its you that’s ignorant, ignorant to what it is to be black in America. You claim to know but you will never know as a white person with white skin, that benefits from white supremacy.

    This is why i don’t like to talk to white people on this blog, i don’t buy their supposed support, they always show their true colors and go against “OUR” best interests.

    This is white paternalism at its finest, white people are always telling black people, what’s best for them, even white foreigners from other countries!

    I am a black man that has lived in America my whole life and this white woman from another country, has the nerve to tell me, a black man how i am ignorant to my experiences as a black man and challenge my opinion on how we as black people should choose our own race over a race of people that despise us!

    My black people, don’t let these white people con and deceive you, they act all chummy and nice but all the while, they are pushing an agenda just for the sake of feeling good about themselves as white people, being they harbor white guilt.

    They don’t have our best interest at heart, when they say we should date,marry and have children with them or their kind. Because if they did have their best interest at heart, they would ASK US what we wanted to do and LISTEN to what we suggest for ourselves! When we do this, like i have and others on this blog, they go, “NO, your not doing it right!”

    I suggested as a black man, that i and all black people, love each other and find that love, that was once ours but stolen from us.

    Linda: “look at this black and white couple in this link”

    You see how they always point to token relationship between black and white people as a rule?

    NO, how about i post a link of a married black couple???? what would you have to say about that??? because that would be, the MAJORITY of black people in America. We marry each other by and large, not white people as they don’t want to marry us, not in droves as you would project by posting a measly link of a interracial couple as if that is the rule.

    This is a fallacy, being the majority of white people do not want to be in a relationship, get married to or have children with black people.

    So in effect, Linda is saying that a black person, should search for a very small percent and minority of white people, that would be willing to be in a relationship with a black person, marry them and have kids with them.

    So, i guess on our way to finding this, small minority of white men and women that would accept us, we would have to be wiling to be used by white people as Negro Bed wenches and Mandingos.

    The majority of white people will ONLY have sex with a black person, nothing more. So i guess black people will have to take one for the team, i guess!!!

    Not the 1000’s of black men and women that are readily available at our disposal and don’t have to worry about if someone looks at us as Negros and only someone to have sex in a “physical relationship”, because that’s what it is, when you have no intention of marrying or having children with a black person.

    Don’t even try to even bring up the fact that black men and women, also look at each other as sexual objects, this isn’t the point.

    Just because black people may use one another sexually, doesn’t mean we should allow white people to do something, that they have done, ever since they stole us for slavery, which is to use us for sexual and breeding purposes.

    There is a history of white men and women, using blacks for sexual objects, AGAINST THEIR WILL, meaning they had no choice!

    This is vastly different than a black man and a woman, consenting to have sex with one another for the sole purpose of one or both, using each other sexually.

    You as a white person, wouldn’t understand this….

    When white men and women are serious about wanting to get married and having children, they throw black people in the trash.

    I am done with you Linda, i never go back and forth with white people and you are no exception.

    Just because you say a few kind words here and there, doesn’t make you no different than the majority of white people in America or Europe.

    This will be my one and only response to you, i am here for my beautiful black brothas and sistas, not to fight and fuss with the likes of you, a white person that always wants to tell black people, what we need, should do with our lives. Take a seat and listen to us for a change!

    I’m done…

    Time waits for no man….


  767. Sondis, you definitely don’t have to talk to me and I’m cool with that but my only question to you is:

    when did I become white?

    and since I am not considered “white” in America, I can say any d’am thing I please about black people. I’ve been on this blog long enough, so most people know where I stand… Thank you very much!

    I don’t need to explain myself to you nor are your “opinions” the only valuable voice here.

    I intend to put my POV out on this blog as a brown woman who has to deal with racism in this country and my POV on how it affects my “black” family members.


  768. um, I think linda is black?


  769. it’s so strange how I disagree with your POV and you come back at me with a whole book and none of your information is on point.

    is receiving criticism that hard for you Sondis?!


  770. mstoogood4yall,

    I’m a mixed-raced Caribbean Latina (Jamaican/Honduran) — I’m been mistaken for many Nationalities depending on the country I’m in but I’ve never been mistaken for a white girl.


  771. @ B. R.

    I accept that no one has the right to judge any particular individuals as sellouts or whatnot unless they have reasonable proof. This is why I do not judge specific individuals unless I have concrete information to make a judgement. However, can one really be faulted for making judgements about groups, which really is more of a social critique, not a psychoanalysis? Abagond does this all the time, yet you have not called him out on this. I have personal experience with Asian women, including my own family, who look down on Asian men. I have seen an Asian woman (my aunt) bash Asian men while talking to her white husband. This happened in front of their own son, who looks more Asian than white. Their son has internalized their racism and he has been mean and resentful towards me on several occasions, explicitly mocking me for being Asian. This is just one example. I have every right to criticize these couples, given their prevalence as opposed to other forms of interracial couples (Where are the Asian female/black males or Asian male/white females or white male/black females etc?) Can I really be faulted for harboring deep suspicion of white people who marry nonwhites, especially when the white men who are married into my own family have spoken down to me in a condescending, paternalistic manner?

    If it comforts you, I am not agitated by interracial relationships that don’t involve whites. I only ignore the white women who flirt with me, but not other women. It appears sondis, jefe, and Lonely Voice understand very well where I am coming from. I can safely conclude that you have misinterpreted my beliefs.

    Also, I am happy that your experience with interracial relationships has worked out well. I SUSPECT that your case is not the norm, however.


  772. Linda, you know we have banged heads on here , and, I still have a fundimental respect for your common sence South Florida insights , and, no one on here has spoken as hard hitting , no nonesence, in favor of issues relating to racism around the globe as you…

    And you represent the new real fast growing dynamic in America, that , if people are stuck in only black white issues, they are going to be severly left behind…America is way more than a black white dynamic now, and , by living in Brazil 27 years now, Im “practicing” to live in South Beach….

    Anne, I thought you and LonelyVoice were discussing my opinion of other peoples stereotypes , Im too lazy to scroll up, where did I accuse you individualy? I did mention some of the people I thought were throwing out stereotypes..

    Adeen ,I want you to know, I spoke pretty strongly , but, I wasnt thinking of you..you are young and learning so much as you grow, and are stuck in a chumpy situation , just keep learning from your experiances, and , what ever it takes for you to get through the barriars and obsticles around you , more power to you..

    ms toogood..I apreciate your breakdown , and Im aware of those dynamics in the black American experiance…but, I suggest to you, colorism exists in various degrees depending on what region you are in…where I grew up, in the black community, some colorism ws there , but , not as large as other regions in the States, like the South…dark black women would be as coveted by the black men as light skinned women…this was before the “black is beautiful” period came in…when that did, even more respect was shown to the darker women and the natural was respected and in style…which, as soon as some entertainer started wearing their hair differantly, women just changed their minds and I think women do that

    As far as getting belittled and that affecting a desician about who to date , well that dynamic plays out if there is color or not, it is a human condition, if someone is rejected by their family or social clique , they will seek people outside of that clique…people react differant to these rejections, there is nothing set in stone, as a matter of fact, all our sexual learning and desicians is extremly complex , religion affects people more than race as far as wrestling with guilt about sex…its so complex that these petty psycho analysis are just really a bunch of psych

    you go into the sexual arena alone to find out your story…and I would never ever try to tell you who you ought to date and have sex with, what i am bristling at is the notion that people are going to pop pseudo psycho analyse my sexual black women partners, or the sexual choices of my black American male colleagues , or me for that matter…no one has any business making general stereotype analysis of why individuals make sexual choices…if people make bad choices, you can be sure they will suffer bad consequences

    Black Americans arnt a bunch of sheep to be patronised and herded around, they are not a monolithic block who think the same way, they are rich in variation and scope of how they feel with lots of differant points of view

    For sure its good to point out what is wrong with Jeff and to avoid people like him to date, its good to tighten up the antenna, and share what to be on the watch for, but , after that, go sleep with who ever you want


  773. B.R.,
    If you’re too lazy to scroll up then that explains the confusion. Thanks


  774. Kiwi, your post came in while I was typing..

    Kiwi, Im not saying what you are experiancing doesnt exist, obviously, your personal experiance has shaped your views..and I would never tell you who you could or couldnt date, or how you are supposed to feel about it

    I just feel you have been extremly general with very little room for all the varietions in reasons people date interracial

    I have to tell you, Im not really saying “look at me, I have married a black woman (actualy twice), raised a mixed child, am down with the black community, and culture, therefor, accept me and make me the exception..” Id like to think if something happened to my wife and I was single, I could date an Asian womwn and not have you looking at us and getting nauseous from a distance

    again, I have no desire to tell you how to act or how to think , I just resent your blatent generalising of how interracial dating and sex goes down

    I dont agree with everything Abagond sais , I dont buy the Arab Trader argument and we differ on Obamas drone policies…I am very on board about white racism in America and the world, and can agree on many assumptions about group racisms and institutional racism and the legacy of slavery

    but I catagoricly reject psycho analysing why people have interracial sex and its importance to the real struggle..lookmatmthe horrible waste on the BWE thread and other interracial discussions…its painful to look at

    by the way I never got that Asian women were sending me any extra attraction signals than any other group of women..I respect your personal experiances and how that could affect your views, but , its too bad you have put that into general stereotypes of interracial dating and sex


  775. Well, Anne , you are the one confused about who I am talking about as far as their interracial stereotypes..which I have tried to assure you Im discussing it with you, not accusing you..

    only if I missed a post of yours where you perpetuate that stereyotype, would I need to scroll up

    why you want to make it a one up conversation is beyond me, Im not trying to play games about this…Im dead serious, and Im not playing about this issue..I will seriously avoid people in real life who think this way…I dont have middle ground on this except to say i dont care what any individual wants to think for themselves , just dont bring ugly interracial stereotypes around me , or we are going to battle…and i mean hard


  776. @B.R.

    I am one who is not against interracial marriages, but what Lonely Voice said rings more true than you give credit to.

    Take for example my mother in law. She is a very confident person upon meeting her, but recently we were taking pictures and I caught her with one off guard. I showed it to her and she yelled “oh I look so dark!” “Don’t take pictures of me unless it is in the sun so I won’t look so dark! ”

    To some that would be harmless but to me I thought….yep serious issues.


  777. To be frank , Sharina, Im not really happy with my apearance in a lot of photos, from bad hair days (at least I still have my red hair color), to skin tones in the photo that make me look horrible, but , not because Im white, as well as neck sh!t only plastic surgery will help..

    What I suggest to you , Sharina, is that many peoples colorisation issues dont really translate into interracial dating and sex issues…most black Americans chose black American partners, you would be hard pressed to prove that all , or even a majority , or even half of black people in interracial relatinships, are , are doing it because of colorisation inferiority issues…if anything, the black American women I have dated have been strong and independent and dont march to lockstep, beleive me, to date interracialy back in the mid 60’s, you were definitly against the grain…

    Black Brazilian women face as much racism and colorisation issues as black American women, but I have never ever heard one referance to “hooking up with the slave master” or some of this kind of tired crap…do you really think black Brazilian women are ignorant ? I guarentee you they would have a lot to say about that…its not a universal truth…its a political agenda that came out of the late 60’s in America , that some of the people , as Linda pointed out, were from the West Indies , even

    I mean look at some of the fairy tales you see put forth…I mean Jeff’s were the worse, but, “white people are trying to get all the light skinned black women to mate with them, so they can destroy the black race” “white men want black men to have sex with their women (just because threr are some people who want that, which I wouldnt judge anyway Im very liberal about peoples personal sex lives, it is ridicilas to imply that it is the white man’s agenda)”,

    I mean cmon, there is so much bs being put out here…ok, what? its suposed to be tit for tat to the white racists stupid blab , that is the bottom of all this , did I miss the memo? ..I mean please tell me that, because some of these political agendas and descriptions of what is happening in interracial sex, are just ridiculas…also wrapped in huge amounts of celebrity srutinising and gossip

    I also suggest to you, and LonelyVoice that you can clear up all the colorisation issuesand internal racism,, and white people and black people are still going to have attractions for each other, still in the face of a racist world….

    What I really see is people taking their own personal issues about interracial sex, and superimposing it and wearing it on the sleeve of a political agenda, mixing truth about racism we all know, with their own hangups about interracial sex

    The horror is, people start talking this crap and then they see any interracial couple walking down the street and they automaticly start scrutinising them and psycho analysing them without even knowing them at all…especialy putting down the black man or woman…if the criticisers are black…old Jeff here automaticly called me a race traitor..he had me mixed up with LonelyVoice , so this bs starts coming from all sides

    no , there is no middle ground for me on this…but that doesnt mean I dont understand colorisation issues…you know,there are many incredible tecniques, some right from Afro diasporic culture , that are meant to turn off the roof brain bombarding a person with self esteem issues,and filling up the soul for inner peace..it doesnt stop external racism, but it faces self esteem issues and helps very much with that…much healthiar than scrutinising interracial couples and politicly agendising them


  778. @ B.R.

    “you would be hard pressed to prove that all , or even a majority , or even half of black people in interracial relatinships, are , are doing it because of colorisation inferiority issues”—Just as you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise.

    The thing about this that you choose to ignore is that it does not simply manifest itself in the way you or anyone else think it should. Some of the most confident people can suffer from inferiority and not one would be the wiser. You can’t know what they are thinking or why they are even thinking it. To you she may be confident and just like you for you, but in her mind you could just be the white guy that gives her a leg up in society (not saying this is the case).

    Do I think all interracial relationships follow this pattern? No. Do I think some do? Yes.


  779. @BR
    I think Kiwi is talking more about those Asian-American women who bash Asian men (and possibly also those Asian-American men who bash Asian women). Given the high intermarriage rate of Asian women in the USA, I definitely believe a high proportion of them are Asian men bashers.

    But it is not surprising since the USA media and hollywood are bashing Asian-American men all the time. At best, they just omit them like they don’t exist. More often than not, they get mocked as pathetic wimps or geeks. That is sad given how brave and daring Asian-American men were in the 19th and early 20th centuries during the bachelor society era.

    Books and flims like “The Joy Luck Club” do not help either as the entire plot is basically about bashing Asian men.

    The stereotypes about black men are terrible, but the stereotypes about Asian men are also terrible. Since it is the US media that is bombarding us with the stereotypes, it is reasonable to conclude that anyone that believes them must be rather white-washed. This is sad for their sons who have to hear their mothers diss Asian men and for their father to enjoy his white privilege that cannot fully be enjoyed by his son. I get it. It can really screw them up.

    This is sad too – after over 60 years of exclusion when men could not bring over wives and form families, nor allowed to marry white women, after they finally could bring women to the USA, the women start bashing them after only one generation. But, most of it is learned behavior coming from the US education system and the media stereotypes.

    If you ever decide to marry an Asian woman, be wary of those who are constantly bashing Asian men. Indeed, I would be wary of black women who are constantly bashing black men. I am not sure if if I have ever seen white women dissing men simply for being white, even those who married black or Asian men. I guess there are plenty of positive stereotypes out there for them to know that not all white men are bad.


  780. @B.R.

    “I never heard…”

    Not saying this isn’t true or that the women DID have issues with BM, but this is an argument from silence, and a very weak one at that. What makes you think every or any black women you dated would discuss such things with you? Married couples don’t even tell each other everything.
    In general, when I complain about men, I usually talk with my girlfriends not my SO or male friend.
    For example, I’ve never heard BM irl bash BW and praise white girls. Still, I see about a thousand Youtube videos on it and some men even became famous because of it. I see thousands of co-signing comments, but I swear, this must be an isolated or very rare incident in IRR?

    “Black Brazilian women have as much racism and colorism issues to deal with as black American women , they just dont have these issues about dating white men..”

    So you can admit that they deal with colorism and are in IRR? Or am I misinterpreting you? Because that is exactly what I’ve been saying. Anyway, what makes you the authority on both Black Brazilian women and Black American women? Because you’ve slept with them?

    “self esteem issues…”

    Self-esteem? So you think this is like a chubby white girl looking at skinny models in a Vogue magazine?
    Why am I having this conversation with you?

    “I could easily recognise as many media generated self esteem issues in myself about my apearance…”

    You’re assuming–again–that white self-esteem issues are the mirror image of what blacks face i