Wade Michael Page (1971-2012), American terrorist, skinhead and rock musician, killed six people at a Sikh temple on August 5th 2012 in Oak Creek, Wisconsin in suburban Milwaukee. In the police shoot-out that followed he shot himself in the head and died.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has had an eye on him since 2000. He wrote songs about killing Jews, blacks and gays. He belonged to the violently racist Hammerskin Nation. Despite all that he had no trouble buying a gun a week before the massacre.
This came just two weeks after the massacre at Aurora, Colorado by James Holmes.
President Obama offered his “thoughts and prayers”, he even called for “soul searching”, but nothing on gun control. The gun makers, through the NRA, pour millions into Congressional races. Even when Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in 2011 Congress did nothing.
Unlike Aurora, the president did not visit the families affected by this massacre, undercutting his claim that “We are all Americans”.
The vigil the night of the shooting
The temple was just a block from where Page’s girlfriend worked. Most likely the word “temple” drew his attention – to him it would have meant they were not white Christians and therefore did not belong in the country. Some think Page mistook the Sikhs for Muslims, but such subtleties scarcely mattered to him.
Page mainly hated Jews and blacks. He believed Jews run America through a Zionist Occupation Government and that blacks are favoured over whites in American society.
A scene from “Pink Floyd – The Wall” (1982)
Hammerskin Nation logo
He belonged to the Hammerskin Nation, which has six chapters in North America, nine in Europe and one in Australia. Founded in Texas in 1988, it was directly modelled on the neo-Nazis in the film “Pink Floyd – The Wall” (1982).
The Hammerskins beat up and sometimes murder blacks just for being black. They paint swastikas on Jewish temples. They firebomb places. They see a holy race war coming and want their men to have military training to be ready.
They also have a music scene: not just to make money but to get their message out and bring people into the movement.
Page himself had been in several skinhead bands through the years: he played guitar, sang and wrote songs. He saw it as a way to wake people up. Thus the name for his last band: End Apathy.
Page grew up in Littleton, Colorado – where the Columbine massacre would later take place on Hitler’s birthday, 1999. When he served in the army in the 1990s the skinheads there got him interested in the movement. At Fort Bragg in North Carolina he even met James Burmeister, the skinhead soldier who murdered a black couple in 1995. (Tim McVeigh, by the way, was also at Fort Bragg, briefly, and was also openly racist.)
The army has thousands of skinheads and does nothing about it. That, along with loose gun laws, means skinhead gangs are becoming increasingly militarized. In 2009 a government report, killed by Republicans, warned that a black president and high unemployment would mean more skinheads.
See also:
i read a study by the SPLC that said that militias and hate groups were on the rise, so i know what’s happening…i got my passport all ready.
The devils have all escaped hell. They live here in America.
@Peanut
There have always been racists in the US armed forces…and needless to say that hate groups like KKK have been around for many years….nothing new and certainly no worse than before.
The incident at the mosque is no different than the southern “black” church bombings/fires of the 60s and 90s.
This is just proof that racism still exists, regardless if many “whites” say otherwise.
I live in Trinidad and Tobago and I truly believe white people get away with murder…literally. Brad Boyce is a white Trinidadian that murdered 19-year-old Jason Johnson. He was freed due to ‘lack of evidence’. What a world we live in!
Aba,
Thanks for this post.
Some thoughts on this Angry White Male Syndrome;
Most whites globally but especially in AmeriKlan, are unwilling and unable to take a deep look into themselves as to the reasons why they are so angry. One would surmise that being white, male, Christian and heterosexual is enough to obtain privilege and thusly happiness.
Yet privilege obviously isn’t enough since violence is the only form of communication they seem to comprehend. What this country needs, in order to survive, is a mass open and honest discussion as to why white males continue to terrorize the offensive “other.”
As we continue to become a Brown Nation and include different languages and religions within our human family, it’s horrifying that whites cling desperately to their “whiteness” as a form of genetic survival.
Another thing I’ve learned about these mass shootings is the overall message these predators want us to hear. That they are superior. That they are in control and their demands will be heard.
How many more must die before this country wakes up to the fact that AmeriKlan lionizes terrorists? And then it follows. If the terrorist is immortalized in our culture as a “hero” to his people for standing up for what he believes in, that only indoctrinates a younger white male crowd into the same thought process.
It is a sad and vicious cycle with no winners.
Skin heads blaming black people for unemployment when the unemployment rate is higher among African Americans and rose in 2012? Three quarters of America’s population identify as white and one eighth is black but black people are taking all the jobs? These people have no brain and are just trained to look for scapegoats. Within the thought bubble they’ve constructed, it all makes sense. And politicians use the racial blame game to trick lower class white people into voting against their own interests.
Anyway, it’s a pity this guy didn’t shoot himself before taking all those innocent lives. Anyone can be a thief or murderer but you have to have pale skin to be a member of a white supremacist group. That’s a very solid profile. Me = wary of whites I don’t know well.
@ Origin
Then allow me to please ask:
Is the formation of hate-groups nothing but a projection of what whites hate most about themselves? Is all the hate regarding the “other” really self-hate?
@Origin
“Anyone can be a thief or murderer but you have to have pale skin to be a member of a white supremacist group.”
Not true, some white supremacist groups demand a check to see if you have any “savage” blood mixed in with whatever white ethnicity they happend to be. To them, if you have anything not white, doesn’t matter how pale you are, you’d be considered a half-breed and be seen as lower than “pure” whites and therefor a part of the problem (not knowing who’s truly white).
White supremacist groups are a joke, the only thing is when they decide to act out their hate onto people, instead of typically spouting about as if people care to listen.
It’s a shame this guy decided to attack a temple of all places, instead of being a passive racist like most of them are. *shrugs* what can you do, but hope idiots like them who are around stop the mindless hate, or atleast do so silently.
“Skin heads blaming black people for unemployment when the unemployment rate is higher among African Americans and rose in 2012?”
________
Let’s not forget that it’s not only the Skin-Heads who believe this common nonsense. A good number of OTHER (supposedly learned and non racist) white people believe this lie – and other racialized Fox News/Rush Limbaugh type falsehoods pertaining to all/most black people. Witness the white mainstream fear/belief that Obama was going to somehow disenfranchise white people for the sake of black folks.
The White Racial Frame – the DISTORTED (negative) beliefs about blacks that many/most whites in America hold on to is a persistent mindset that persists even after hundreds of years. The skin-heads are merely the most violent and most militant of disgruntled/deluded whites who are feeling some unwanted changes coming.
Law professor Derrick Bell firmly believed that if non-white (other) people didn’t exist/live in America, white people by necessity would have to create some bogey men/women to fear, scapegoat, mistreat. Otherwise they would turn on (Balkanize) themselves.
Whiteness is demonic!
“Entitlement – Entitlement or a ‘Sense of Entitlement’ is an unrealistic, unmerited or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and favorable treatment at the hands of others.”
http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Entitlement.html
White racists, such as Wade Michael Page, suffer from a sense of self-entitlement. They of course accuse all others of this, but it is they who truly exhibit it, and on a monumental scale.
They seem to truly believe that they, over or before all others, should be given access to jobs, goods and services based solely on aspects of their physical appearance, i.e., “race”, which are nothing more than accidents of birth.
The chef at the restaurant where Mitrice Richarson disappeared played the same type music.
“Matari
Let’s not forget that it’s not only the Skin-Heads who believe this common nonsense. A good number of OTHER (supposedly learned and non racist) white people believe this lie – and other racialized Fox News/Rush Limbaugh type falsehoods pertaining to all/most black people.”
Linda says,
Matari…truth that you are speaking.
This is what drives me crazy about the American media and it’s politicians–the lies they are willing to tell and spread in order to feed the disease of the white American public.
I hear this word “entitlement” and “handout” and all I’m thinking is — “What Handout?”
I do my part as a US taxpayer and these people can k’ss it with this bulls’t about black/brown people and “entitlements”
The average black family in US are working/middle-class (and legal immigrants) pay into the tax system, and have the same issues as white Americans, so I don’t see how black people are “supposedly” receiving any benefits from the government.
If I lose my job tomorrow, lose my health insurance and can’t pay COBRA, I can’t get Medicaid because I own a house and have assets—so, where is my handout or government assistance?
If white Americans are scared or upset that black people are/might receive “so called” entitlements, then the US government needs to stop taking Social Security and Medicare out of my paycheck because MY money, that I work hard for, is currently being used to pay for these old white American’s excessive and expensive a’s medical bills.
I pay so much taxes/SS/Med each month that sometimes, I forget how much money I really earn because my net income is substantially less than my gross income. I look at my yearly Income Tax and go “Wow, I actually made that much money!” because I sure didn’t bring it home with me.
The white American public are a bunch of sheep and they believe everything they see and hear on TV, and that is why corporate American will continue to own them.
@
Linda and Matari
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/08/19/the-conversation-we-need-to-have/#comment-3026
The hatred and violence will continue and expand unless this is exposed/ discussed/ and or terminated.
@ resjan,
good point
This is scary stuff to read. I really wonder how these people get involved in such groups. What must have happened psychologically for them to reach such a stage of racism? Or is it simply a combination of their own warped thinking and everyone else’s casual subtle racism that makes them believe they are undeniably correct?
“What must have happened psychologically for them to reach such a stage of racism?”
Simple, fear of the unknown. Seeing as specifically in the US, whites have always been “the” race, they fear the days that as the population dwindles so does the american way.
They feel it’s their duty to protest/fight/and kill to maintain what they believe should be white and white only. That’s why you see more and more becoming hardcore racists/white nationalists. They believe in the myth that they can’t possible live/exist with any other race that they’ll fight to the end to maintain that myth.
Plus, add to that the thought of them thinking they’re going extinct (I really don’t understand this one, as whites have generally always been the minority of the world) and you have a ticking timebomb of idiots who will never learn.
Being partially white myself, I did have some of those same thoughts. But I never really took them to heart, as I find it stupid to dwell on it. Better to think ahead at a better future waiting to be seen.
One, white supremacists are the dumbest and most spoiled people on the planet. They think that EVERYTHING should belong to the somehow oppressed white race. What’s more puzzling is that they think Jews, white Jews are somehow different from whites and don’t count as whites.
Most white supremacists are nothing but whiners, but sadly, as proven by Page, there are some who are a violent threat.
Two, not to deviate from the subject, but there was another shooting by a white male terrorist at Texas A&M last week. I think we’re seeing the angry white male syndrome unleashed.
Three, I’m not surprised that the President didn’t visit the victims of the families affected by the Sikh temple massacre. Chicago has had one of their bloodiest and violent summers to date, and he hasn’t even utter a word about them. In fact no one in the mainstream has as of yet, and we all know why.
These kinds of tragedies will continue to be committed by white people because white people are in extreme denial that they as a whole have MAJOR problems, one of them as seen in the Sikh temple is that they have a problem with people who are physically and culturally different than they are.
Great comment @truthbetold..
Aga, do you have an “Angry White Male” post? If not, may I suggest one?
@Yawn
The White Race is going extinct, I think mathematically speaking we only have another thousand years left.
And if we bred without racism, only another one hundred in the US.
And what makes these skinheads ridicilous? The whole skinhead style was fashion of the black caribbean immigrants and working class kids originally in 60′s, Rude Boys and Skinheads and ska music, rock steady etc.
Other than that, it is pretty weird that openly racist hate groups can openly arm themselves and operate across the USA when the street gangs are designated as “street terrorism” and we all know what happened to Black Panther Party earlier. That tells a lot.
“The White Race is going extinct, I think mathematically speaking we only have another thousand years left.
And if we bred without racism, only another one hundred in the US.”
I know, but historically we’ve always been the minority, and yet their NOW whining about it. That’s why white nationalism is on the rise, though I still say it’s unnecessary. But eh, what can you do… some people want to believe in race and want to see the “survival” of it (and yes, that was a subtle jab at some here).
If you’re so attached to the notion of race and being surrounded by nothing but those whom look like you, then they’d have a problem with it .. I do not though.
I am scared of the racist skinheads – but I’m even more concerned about the European-Americans who do not see theses racist attacks as a MAJOR concern and as a byproduct of their own culture of xenophobia, and as a continuation of centuries of oppression of the ‘other’.
[...] "The Southern Poverty Law Center has had an eye on him since 2000. He wrote songs about killing Jews, blacks and gays. He belonged to the violently racist Hammerskin Nation. Despite all that he had no trouble buying a gun a week before the massacre….Even when Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in 2011 Congress did nothing." -Abagond – click title to read more - "I am scared of the racist skinheads – but I'm even more concerned about the European-Americans who do not see theses racist attacks as a MAJOR concern and as a byproduct of their own culture of xenophobia, and as a continuation of centuries of oppression of the 'other'." -Glenn Robinson [...]
Mankind is the problem not Just white people , In Nigeria an islamic sect called boko haram have unleashed a wave of bombings and violent attacks upon innocent victims of same ethnicity , rwanda genocide also comes to mind . black on black crimes in america’s innercities . HUMANITY IS MESSED UP , PLAIN AND SIMPLE . I’ve lived long enough to judge for myself , humans are just plain messed up . not trying to take guilt of white peoples shoulders , for their past crimes , but let’s be realistic every white person is not evil neither is every black person a saint . we all are cracked vessels .
WRT to Rwanda, one should take a look at how the Belgian Colonial government emphasized a rift between Hutu and Tutsi. The Tutsi were considered closer to “white” because of how they looked. However, there really is precious little genetic difference between the groups. As for Islam, that is not even a African religion. I don’t mean to be offensive but you have to be totally brainwashed to fight against your people for an ideology that was imposed on your culture.
That is my problem with black people: the identity confusion and internalized racism. That is at the root of many of the issues we see. Granted, it was not accidental but when is a critical mass going to wake up? I think it was also Boby Wright, who abagond mentioned in another post, that came up with the idea of “mentacide”. The cultural thought patterns that serve white supremacy are extremely self-destructive when assimilated by the intended victims.
I grew up among Skin’eads — Skins — Suedeheads.
They are all the same thing.
“Skin-head” sounds so polite.
There was a time when blacks in 1960s/70s in England would join the Skins for “Paki-bashing” session: beating and kicking South Asians. In certain schools, some of the South Asian kids would know a day would be put aside for their “Paki” faces to get bashed and stomped on.
The reason? Because “Pakis” ‘smell of curry’.
The authorities did nothing to stop this violence in schools or the streets.
How would the white Skins explain their brutality? Something on the lines of “we’ve been deprived of what’s ours”. I don’t know the motivation of the black skinheads who would bash and batter South Asians. Perhaps they also wanted another group of outsiders to hate and scapegoat?
But, the white Skins I encountered were never really interested in political power; they were more committed to violence and harassment. It was more of a street-based movement among England’s working classes that was anti-Establishment at its foundation – and – that is why the Skinhead has black roots. Along with the Jamaican music.
In more recent times, when these children who were once called “Pakis” turned into adults, they were stopped at airports, stared at in train stations and, once again, subjected to people who feel that they can use racist – and this time Islam-phobic – language, because now it seems like it’s backed by the state to do that.
What I have seen, is that the racially-motivated breed of Skin were politicized by far-right, black hating/anti-Semite groups — the White Power types. This is when this subculture started to spread to the USA, the European mainland, etc., and became more militarized. The most frightening of this kind are probably the Russians because of their military-style organization and training.
Their music came to reflect this: paranoid, and supposedly “Nordic” hardcore. Once I heard it being called “hate-core”.
Smh @ this tragedy, (and the countless other atrocities as well)!! The true “colors” of this nation seem to virtually exploding into the lives of those considered “others” on quite a frequent basis these days..Seriously time for some major round-table discussions here in the ole’ U.S.!
@ Abagond
Do you find it amusing how a post on white supremacy and its machinations gets sidetracked to how blacks “started” the skin head movement?” Do you find it amusing that a post designed to further explore the “whys” of white rage and violence gets derailed by saying this is a “human” problem?
Abagond, my definition of white supremacy is as follows:
Individuals who classify themselves as “white” who participate in a GLOBAL system to humiliate, terminate, oppress, subjugate and terrorize all other individuals that classify them selves as “non white”. This system is linked to ALL areas of human life from birth to death.
White racism / supremacy is the culprit of ALL suffering in the world. Including the suffering of themselves. They do not want to understand that their suffering breeds:
1. Insecurity
2. Lack of spiritual awareness
3. Apathy
4. Ignorance
5. Fear
These violent actions are a physical manifestation of a larger internal issue. Something the whites on your blog CANNOT and WILL NOT admit to is :
Whites act.
Coloureds re-act.
Why? Because the people that hold the power make the rules.
@robert uyi
White Devils vs. Black Devils…The Common Link?
Yes, whacked-out blackmen are killing innocent sistas and brothas in Nigeria in the name of Islam, but, who is the genesis of the problem…White Muslim Men? Boko Haram and Al-Shabab are byproducts of whitemen from the Middle-East who have exported their insanity to the shores of Africa. At the same time, blackmen in this country will defend the same group of whitemen with no shame, but they have black blood on their hands just the same. We love to talk about the KKK and skinheads in this country, but condone the “Black KKK” in america who have killed more blacks than the klan ever did in totality. Again, who inspires this group of blackmen…Whitemen! If we’re gonna throw stones at evil blackmen, we can’t leave whitemen out of the convo. Time-Warner, Universal, Sony/BMG, Clear Channel, Hollywood, NFL, NBA, etc. Black people complain, but we don’t wanna confront “Whitemen In Suits” who are the puppet masters and ringleaders of the bs that we deal with. Include Disney, Comcast, Viacom, News Corp, all of them. We’re the stupid ones, believing that whitemen had changed for the better. How does all of this relate to black folk? The greatest fear of whitemen is an “Enlightened Black Male.” They’re not threatened by other men, it’s blackmen they fear the most. Why? We’re the only obstacle in their way, as it relates to having total control on this planet…money, power, women, resources, etc. Robert, blackmen need to wake up? A lot of us are in denial about what’s going on in this country. We obsess over hip-hop, sports, cars, sex, and other ish at our own peril. Evil whitemen are plotting our demise along with their “Black Sons” who do the same as them…Kill Black People!!!
@ Robert Uyi
Where did you learn to think and talk like that? I never said whites are uniquely evil and yet you feel the need to argue against that position. Like out of the blue. Why? Plenty of whites do that, it is not just you. Like they learned it somewhere. What is going on?
Whites do not UNDERSTAND true equality. True equality for whites = whites on top and everyone on the bottom. Pres. Obama’s 2008 election was a wake up call for whites invested in the cause of white supremacy. Hence, you had calls to “take our country back” and “save America” and “real Americans.” Whites see multiculturalism as an insult on their white supremacy.
@ Diary
Yes, amusing.
I would not say ALL suffering, but certainly a huge percentage, directly or indirectly: we live in a stolen world remade for white people.
“we live in a stolen world remade for white people”
thats a good phrase, Abagond
@ Aba
“Where did you learn to think and talk like that? I never said whites are uniquely evil and yet you feel the need to argue against that position. Like out of the blue. Why? Plenty of whites do that, it is not just you. Like they learned it somewhere. What is going on?”
LOL!
Aba, didn’t you read the white book?
@abagond … you said “Where did you learn to think and talk like that? I never said whites are uniquely evil and yet you feel the need to argue against that position. Like out of the blue. Why? “……….
You can’t be serious… Why? Because your agenda rips through the page flies through the screen and slaps us all in the face.
Your recent posts have that sort of “White men have problems” pattern to them. I have heard people on here that say that white owned news organizations have an anti black agenda just reporting the news. Not going further to generalize a whole race of people as you try to do here… oh wait you say “MOST whites…not all.” give me a break. Then you get surprised that after you stirred the pot some smoke came out. Come on you can’t thing people are that stupid.
@Robert Uyi
If you’re “not trying to take guilt of[f] white peoples shoulders” then why on earth would you commence with a Black rapsheet?
As Tyrone mentioned, Nigerian terrorism is borne of islamic zealots (islam originates in Arabia, not Nigeria, if I’m not mistaken).
The Rwandan genocide is a consequence of Tutsi and Hutu education and control by Roman Catholics who instilled racial superiority of Tutsis and instituted a system of segregation.
As to “Black on Black” crime in America, most “blacks” are killed by other “blacks” just as most “whites” are killed by other “whites,” yet I’ve never heard of “white on white” crime.
Yes, blacks killing other blacks in America is sad, but MOST of the time it involves young males over money/drugs. Since African-American males have the country’s highest unemployment and poverty rates, this should come as no surprise. In majority black communities where poverty and unemployment are much lower, violent crime is consequently much lower.
@dave
Abagond’s post is on Wade Michael Page, a murderer from a known hate group who killed innocent people in a place of worship.
Where in this post did Abagond equate his actions to all “white men” or generalize them? This post is very informational….it tells about Wade Michael Page. Did you actually read it before you started ranting? How you or anyone else could take offense to this particular post is incredible!
@ dave
Interesting. So is writing about Wade Michael Page a slap in the face?
I have never ever said whites are uniquely evil. Do you honestly think I do not know about genocide in Rwanda or black-on-black crime in America? You might be excused in thinking I do not know about Boko Haram, but I do. The “Broken Africa” News Network has made sure of it:
http://articles.cnn.com/keyword/boko-haram
Fashion tip from moi, as Ankhesen would say: If you are excusing skinhead violence – or genocide or slavery or racism – you are doing it wrong.
@ Dave
Of my last ten posts only one had that pattern. Certainly not this one.
I did not frame this as a White Pathology post. Instead I point fingers at loose gun laws, the army’s not cracking down on skinheads and Obama’s cowardice.
I could have framed Page as a violent extreme of what most white men are. I could have tied it to the Psychopathic Racial Personality post. I could have talked about the perpetual foreigner stereotype. I did none of that. I did not even say, “Most white men blah blah blah.”
Truthbetold said:
That’s a conclusion drawn if one chooses not to peek into the history of the Uk in 1960s and 70s to see the early roots that bore the ugly fruit of Oak Creek.
Is it a ‘derailment’ to introduce the early RACE factors of Skinhead history? It is — if you believe it is worthless to recognize that black and whites shared a common gang subculture in 1960s’ London, and, it is – if you choose not to interrogate the HOW and the WHY that gang subculture got hi-jacked by neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the first place.
If you believe Skinhead is specifically about white boys, well you are wrong. It never was.
Neo-Nazism and white supremacy is not “human problem”, of course — there were a series of events that shaped a trend which ended up in the US as what we know now….
It is well-documented that the black immigrant and the indigenous white population shared a music and gang subculture in the late 1960s. It is tied in with football hooliganism and white supremacist groups, and there’s also plenty of info around about that, too.
But it was from the early 1970s that football hooliganism and neo-Nazism more defined what a white and racist skinhead was. The Rude Boys had more or less withdrawn from that scene.
I do not believe it is a sidetrack to find out what happened to bring about that shift….
First, the gangs of 50 years ago in London were not peace ‘n’ love hippies. They fought. They fought each other and targeted other groups for assault. Apart from “Pakis” other groups that were singled out for this violent pastime were: greasers (rocker gangs), squaddies (out of service soldiers), ‘queers” and students.
What characterized the thinking among the young men in the gangs?
1. Social mobility (lack of)
2. Territoriality
3. Aggressiveness
The Asian immigrants that came to the UK around the late1960s were seen as a threat. The blacks and whites in the Skinhead gangs (comprising black Rudeboys and white Skinheads) targeted this new type of immigrant.
This coincided with the a speech from Conservative Member of Parliament Enoch Powell’s ‘Rivers of blood’ speech in April 1968, and the hysteria it invoked among the white population. It is said to have been the most controversial speech of 20th century Britain.
Powell was against the mass influx of Asians to the UK and called for repatriation of ALL immigrants, including the blacks that had already arrived.
By sympathizing with him, most Skinheads chose their side, and alienated themselves from their black gang members. That was the beginning of the end of the first wave of Skinheads in England. Powell appealed to his fellow whites against all the new “darkies” because, if his words were not heeded, the future would see “…the River Tiber foaming with much blood….”
Why were the South Asians singled out?
Because they were perceived as upwardly mobile. The Asian emphasis on education and profit-making abilities — at that time — were polar opposite to the non-chalant attitudes of the Skinheads and Rude Boys. The white English were not as perturbed by English-speaking, Christian blacks that the perceived as down-wardly mobile as they were, and thus posed no competition to them as poor whites. The Asians were seen as different, due to their very different culture. The ambitiousness of the Asian meant loss and erosion of their white, Christian country, their old ways – and they were not going to tolerate it.
^ Yes, you did none of that. And I think this is an excellent post.
@resjan and @abagond, my comment was more in reference to your comment directed at Robert when you were surprised to hear that he was saying blacks commit hateful acts as well. Because he is black he must have “learned” that somewhere. In my opinion he made a fair and balanced observation. When you read through all of the comments, your post is not just about the events that occurred, but seem to go a little further and try to develop some pattern into the white male psyche.
You blatantly deny that…… but just as white racists might have their heads in the sand , as do some black racists, which you have admitted you are one of them.
PS “Most whites” and “Most white males” is a common phrase on here. so blah blah blah to that.
@Abagond
The origin of skinheads would be a rather interesting post (minus its current connotations). As for this character, it seems like a rerun, since this issue was brought up during the 90′s. The attitudes are (as was then) can be cloaked into other areas (i.e. conservatives). I’d rather just browse the ska music section…:/
@CDF
@Abagond
Definitely.
It’s a complex, rich story. And not another re-run.
Why, then, shun and trivialize the origins of the Skinhead as a ‘derailment’?
Another one
@Dave
So, you could not find anywhere IN ABAGOND’s POST where she said “most whites” etc. You can’t even find a reply on THIS PAGE where Abagond used “most whites” except to tell you that she did not previously use it.
Abagond only drew a parallel to McVeigh because he ALSO served at Fort Bragg and was openly racist…..
You are simply shifting the blame, knowingly or not, off this racist killer. The article is not about all the bad things white or black people have done…it is about Wade Page, and yet you and Robert felt a NEED to talk about why whites are not all bad and blacks are also bad. It’s illogical.
@ Bulanik
Sorry for the misinterpretation on my part. I should’ve been clearer. What I meant was how some will try the “blacks did it too” argument as a derailment.
My apologies.
@ Bulanik
The history of skinheads is certainly on topic, but Uyi’s comment was a derailment.
@ dave
You and Mr Uyi need to read what I wrote and not assume what I mean.
Uyi is arguing that whites are not uniquely evil. I have never once anywhere ever said that whites are uniquely evil. Not in this post. Not on this blog. Not anywhere in any comment. Not even offline in private. I live in a white society that MAKES SURE I know about the evil things blacks do. It is pounded into my head. Believing that whites are uniquely evil would be like believing 2+2=5.
A huge cause of white misunderstanding on this blog is that MANY whites, unlike most blacks, try read my mind instead of my words. Most black commenters assume I have an opinion of my own. MANY white commenters assume they already KNOW what my opinion is without reading it. This leads to poor reading comprehension.
I do not know if Uyi is black. I do know he is whitewashed from the way he talks.
I think it is important to show how the extreme racist movement hijacked the skinhead fashion and style because not many know the caribbean roots of that style and music. Also it was not a accident, like Bulaniks bit tells.
In one documentary I saw one old (former) skinhead said that close cropped hair came from the fact that as a working class kids they had no money for barber or they wanted their mother chopp their hair, so they cut it off or down to suede style. Heavy boots ansd shoes (Doc Martens came in 70′s) were also usefull because they lasted longer than ordinary shoes and because many working class kids went to work on factories and docks as teenagers and used those footwear both as working shoes and at freetime.
What drove them to the black jamaican clubs at least in London in 60′s was that those guys, blacks, were as down looked as they were and the music was something else (not pop. Beatles, hippie stuff etc.). Also the style of jamaican rude boys was similar in many ways as was the additude.
As for the violence, it had always been part of the working class cluture. Men drank heavily after the working week and fought on the streets, and the kids did the same. The first soccer riots occurred back in the late 1890′s and were also part of the working class scene in which the skinheads were ready to raise hell almost at every chance.
As Bulanik said, the right wing polticians saw these guys a good catch for their agenda.
The same thing happened again in the late 70′s with the second wave of ska and skinheads in England. At first it was black and white kids again, but then National Front began its recruiting drive among the skinheads and football hooligans. Among the latter it was not that successful since for football fans their club was their politics and religion, but skinhead style was hijacked. In film This is England the story is neatly compressed, from the start to the end, as based on the life of the director of that film .
But the appearace of the nazi skinhead movement in early 1980′s was not just an accident. European neo nazis had been trying to recruit supporters for a long time. What they saw in skinheads, they liked, but it was only after america neo nazis and racists began to finance the drive, also give advice and support, print magazines and make records and videos, the nazi skinheads became the Thing (this has been prove and told by european media years and years ago, proven by european police, researchers etc). Americans also invented the White power rock as a new music for the nazi skinheads, and the swedish right wingers started to release that music in Europe. Ska and rock steady was, after all, music by the black jamaicans. The media focused to the nazi skinheads and said that skinheads are nazis, and more the nazis joined in or adopted the style.
But it certainly would be an interesting post, if abagond has the time, since it is also a good example of how the racist rightwing does and can replace whole cultural phenomenas and claim them as their own and make everybody believe that its version is the right one and the only one.
(http://www.victoryartgallery.com/)
mohawk haircuts were used by troops getting ready to invade on d day….of course Im not saying they were the original skinheads but they did sport that hair style before the skinheads
@truthbetold
No worries, thank you. I see what your point.
Sam: you man appropriate black culture to the point where the black origins are hidden? and then white-wash it in politics and militarization to terrorize and harm anyone who is not white? That’s a unique exercise in power…
AFAIK, the “mohican” (in British English) was not worn by the original Skinheads, but by the punk rockers who came later.
It’s a hairstyle that’s been worn by men in the British Isles for 1000s of years.
A 2,000 year old body found preserved in an Irish bog sports a mohican:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonycavan_Man
Sam:
Americans also invented the White power rock as a new music for the nazi skinheads..
Disagree.. the British band Skrewdriver was probably the best known early Nazi Skin band and they started in the 70s several years before White power music aka Hatecore had any impact in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_rock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver
Nazi skins and White power music in the US decidedly came later and had lower representation than in Britain.
Bulanik:
AFAIK, the “mohican” (in British English) was not worn by the original Skinheads, but by the punk rockers who came later.
That was my experience, generally, at least in the US, wearing a mohawk aka a mohican was a clear sign one was not a skinhead and sometimes people with mohawks were targeted by skinheads.
@sam, Milton
sam said:
Americans also invented the White power rock as a new music for the nazi skinheads..
Milton said:
“Disagree…..
….Nazi skins and White power music in the US decidedly came later and had lower representation than in Britain.”
To the best of my knowledge, white power rock music was created in England. I believe there was a splintering of the once-shared black+whites skinhead subculture AFTER the “Rivers of Blood” speech. I believe Jamaican Rudeboy music gravitated more towards Rastafari, “natty dread” and African roots. Black consciousness became a theme – something the English white working class rejected.
I heard once that when the song “Young, Gifted and Black” (by Bob and Marcia) was popular at dances, the white skinheads pulled the cables from speakers, and sang “Young, Gifted and White’ over it. Not long after that many whites stopped attending the dance halls, bringing an end to the bond that was beginning to form between black and white youth cultures of that era.
The 2 English white power political parties – The National Front (NF) and the British Movement (BM) — were fairly serious about recruiting members, but had neglected one crucial thing — the power of music among young people in its recruitment drive.
Skrewdriver was a different kind of hardcore rock band, because the band members themselves were committed to neo-Nazi ideals and would become a leading voice of British Nationalism. Mostly “underground”, these musicians formed Blood and Honour, an anti-black, anti-Semitic hate group, along the lines of Hitler’s Youth recruitment programme. Skrewdriver was unlike other punk/new wave rock bands that had a following espousing violence and white power beliefs, rather than the band members having those beliefs themselves.
Most of the English bands who played this kind of music were not actually neo-Nazis themselves…the “Oi” music scene in England that promoted ths music was not a neo-Nazi movement {“Oi” is English cockney for “hey” or hello}.
I think it was at this point that music was recognized as playing an important symbolic role in the politicization of the skinhead subculture. Because it provided a musical focus for skinhead identity that was ‘white’. By that I mean, nothing to do with the Jamaican or black immigrant presence, and little obvious connection with black, Jamaican musical roots altogether. I believe this is what fueled a new vision of skinhead identity, and formed a point of entry for a new brand of neo-Nazi, hardcore rock music.
This clip is a fairly accurate portrait of an Englsih neo-Nazi Skin:
*************************************
I don’t know how this type of English hardcore rock music took off in the US. The style and presentation of the English punk bands were perceived as rude and disappointing in the US, I heard.
I also doubt that the American audience were prepared for the neo-Nazi rockers at the time they broke on the scene. I’d guess that the early followers of this subculture in the US wanted to get away from the bland “suburban trappings”, and this was why they were attracted to this music, initially. I don’t know.
But, I feel what may have happened in US may have been similar to what happened in the UK to develop this violent, neo-Nazi core-following: the yobs (what the English call “jocks”) got the wrong idea and were much more aroused by the aggression of the music, fashion and language than anything else – enter the Aryan Resistance to sweep up what remained…
@sam, Milton
I feel that the attitude shift following “Rivers of Blood” meant many white skinheads became more and more opposed to the blacks. But that attitude began as a fight over territory rather than outright racial hatred
The anti-racist skinheads also had musical representation; some of those musicians rejected racism and neo-Nazism. The Sex Pistols, eg, was created in that climate. Pauline Black was also the most well-known face of anti-racist ‘skinhead music’.
Imho, many white skinheads were trying to revive the vanishing working class chauvinisms of the poor, white English and they found that better expressed not around the music of blacks, but in the violence of the white football terraces. That was another skinhead-type subculture that ALSO had black fighters, too, and some of those black men are still big players in the football hooligan culture. .
As sam says, the neo-Nazi organizations had been watching this and wanted to profit from punks’ fondness for fascist fetishes and the white skinheads’ sheer pleasure in fighting/destruction. This was the climate that white power bands Skrewdriver and No Remores were born in. They were punk/new wave, heavily influenced by heavier English rock music from the 1960s bands, such as, The Who and The Stones.
No italics in my first post after {obvious connection}…. with black, Jamaican musical roots…”.
@milton, bulanik:
We should not forget that there was even leftist skinheads, known as red skins, also they had their bands etc. and they were very much anti nazi guys. Red Skins was one of their bands. I’ve seen picture on the cover of an collection album (Oi Oi, or something like that) with white, brown and black skinheads posing for the camera. Damn, can’t remember the name of the record or the bands on the album.
But I bet if you go and ask the present or former members of the band Specials are they nazis, you would get pretty angry answers. After all, half of that band was black guys. One of their better known songs was Skinhead Moonstomp.
I just had to post this Wow they said children should model their lives after this guy.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/22/13415785-monument-to-civil-war-general-ku-klux-klan-leader-triggers-controversy?lite
I wonder how all these racists in the army handle a Black drill sergeant.
@ Son2380
In Mobile they had “reenactments” where the south won! And everyone believed it.
@ diaryofanegress
The Souf shall rise a-gain! Yeeehawww!
I have White ancestors who had sons in the Confederacy and it sickens me to know that their home is used as a shrine by some of these ya-hoos. They even have “Confederate Christmas” there.
Creepy.
Could someone tell me how white men like Wade Michael Page see their “identity”?
Being white can’t be enough. He, and men like him, are not mentally ill.
What makes them a breed apart?
I realize that some of them used to consider themselves to be of the Ar-yan, white. But “Ar-yan”, I believe is a word linguists use to trace the common roots of the Indo-European languages.
When I hear the expression “mud people” used by white racists, and skinheads in the US, etc, it makes me believe that this form of white racism is Pre-Adamite. That is, they believe that Jews, blacks, Asians, etc., were God’s earlier, failed attempts before perfecting white Adam. This means that the white North European Christians are “The Chosen Ones” and the US is the “Promised Land”.
One of the early proponents of that idea was Buckner H, Payne, who wrote a pamphlet in 1867 – The Negro: What is His Ethnological Status? in which he outlined that the Negro is a pre-Adamic beast of the field (aka, a higher order of monkey) preserved from Noah’s Ark. Inter-racial mixing was thus an affront to God, and it was this corruption why God caused the punishment of the Great Flood on humanity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite
As fire-arms are readily available in the US – I’d also conjecture that the theological reasoning of a Biblical “End Time” is behind the stockpiling of arms by these groups. I’d imagine they stockpile canned goods, grains, dried foods, canned goods, water — in anticipation of the time when they must survive post-apocalypse, in some rural area, perhaps underground?
If the KKK mobilized itself as a vigilante club but morphed into a movement to uphold white supremacy, then it stands to reason that that would have been accompanied by a specific theological and institutional framework to justify and sustain it. I googled “Christian Identity” and the 1st link that came up was from Wiki, and it explains that:
“….According to Chester L. Quarles….some of the Christian Identity movement’s followers hold that non-Caucasian peoples have no souls, and can therefore never earn God’s favor or be saved…”
Further, they believe:
“…that many white Europeans are the literal descendants of the Israelites through the ten tribes which were taken away into captivity by the armies of Assyria…”
What about the practical stuff? When I used to watch various westerns – John Wayne films especially – I used to hear this often enough:
“Let’s send out a posse” whenever it was time to get a bad guy, and then see that white men could take the law into their own hands, at night, with guns. Was this how white people protected their interests in those days?
If this was so, then they white people of those times must have created white people’s groups – with shared KKK membership, naturally – but what they must have had laws to back it up with.
I googled up “posse” and “law”, and the Posse Comitus Act of 1878 came up. My interpretation of this law is that all governmental power is rooted at the county, and not at Federal, level. This means, that like in the John Wayne westerns, a white citizen may deputize in law enforcement. It prevents the use of federal troops in civilian law enforcement, because the white citizen is sovereign…
Is this correct?
In today’s age, how would someone who published manifestos and organized young men around Adolf Hitler’s racial theories be racially profiled….if at all?
How would would great men of the Spanish Inquisition be racially profiled? Or the passionate and massacring men of the Crusades from men who traveled to the Holy Land?
It seems, looking in, that when whites form groups for the promotion of white-only interests, does “the public” grow suspicious? Rarely, it seems. And when young white males gather in groups, does law enforcement see a gang or a college fraternity?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Posse+comitatus
To Bulanik:
It seems, looking in, that when whites form groups for the promotion of white-only interests, does “the public” grow suspicious?
Yes.. there are a number of well funded and organized associations which monitor White hate groups. The two oldest and best known are the ADL (Anti-Defamation League) and the SPLC. (Southern Poverty Law Center..) Some groups engage in direct action (meaning they hold counter rallies when White Supremacists gather or out and out fight them…)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/20/1093174/-Anti-fascists-Attack-White-Nationalists-in-Chicago-Suburb
Local and national law enforcement also monitor Whites associated with hate groups. There have multiple WNs arrested in the past few decades before they ever fired a shot or thew a bomb. The more vocal they are the more likely they will be infiltrated and if they are committing illegal acts.. (Planning terrorist attacks, stock piling illegal weapons…) they are arrested. After all White Supremacists are considered a threat to the US government and they believe that Federal agents and the police are their enemies. (Some of them call the US government ZOG – Zionist Occupation Government..that’s one clue as to how they think…)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/georgia-militia-terror-plot-toxin-exposives_n_1070677.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/08/nation/la-na-nn-alleged-nazi-plot-florida-20120508
@abagond says:
And if Wade had known the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim, would that have meant he’d have chosen the target of his murderous bigotry with more care?
A turban on the head of a black/brown skinned man = enemy.
I checked the net what has been said about “the turban” and who wears it, and found this article in The Seattle Times, titled “Understanding Turbans”.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/lifestyles/links/turbans_27.html
There are illustrations of different turbans on different men’s heads with explanations. The explanation lists:
- Sikh men,
- Iranian leaders,
- Taliban members,
- Indian men, and,
- Muslim religious elders.
If I’m not mistaken, this is telling the reader that some turban wearers are “good guys” (like Sikhs), and some are “bad guys” (like “the Taliban”).
The article describes the features of the turbans, but says nothing about the culture or religion of the people who wear the turbans across the South Asia or the Middle East.
Turks, Indians, Arabs, Iranians are all the same, of course.
But this ‘helpful’ list assists us to identify The Terrorists.
Yet, isn’t most terrorism on American soil committed by whites of the far-right?
And isn’t the history of American-grown terrorism a conflict over who is a “Real” American?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States
Bulanik is absolutly correct that most terrorism on American soil is by racist white terrorists, who certainly vote on the right…
As a matter of fact, the real white racist terrorists in the USA were the first ones who talked about forming individual cells and acting autonomously , way before Al Queada
Bulanik said:
“It seems, looking in, that when whites form groups for the promotion of white-only interests, does “the public” grow suspicious?”
Milton said:
“Yes.. there are a number of well funded and organized associations which monitor White hate groups.”
By “the public”, I meant the the general public which is why I put it in speech marks.
Unlike the turban-wearing folk that were targeted and discussed in the newspapers, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a helpful listing of drawings showing white guys – each with a paragraph of explanation – telling us which ones were safe, which ones could do harm…
Surprising really, when you consider that most terror in the US is committed by white people.
@sam
Jamaican music and Rudeboy style was not the only products of another culture that was hijacked by white supremacist organisations.
“Aryan” is a word long associated with “master race”, although it more properly describes the languages of India.
European linguists of the 19th century supposed that the age of a language determined its “superiority”. And, because the Indo-Aryan language (Sanskrit) is so old, then its speakers had to be white.
Based on the assumption that Sanskrit was the oldest Indo-European language, instead of the Greek alphabet, the idea was popularized by scholars of the time, that the term “Aryan” could also be applied to the entire Indo-European language family as well. It didn’t take long for European dictators begin to call themselves “Aryans”, too. All in an attempt to try to convince themselves that their people were also descendents of Sanskriti people of modern-day India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.
The belief took hold that the “Aryans” themselves had originated somewhere in northern Europe. Scandinavia was identified as the place – the distinctive “Nordic” characteristics of blond hair and blue eyes was most Aryan!
The Aryan didn’t only have outer features, but a special character and, a social role – they were natural leaders of the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
Meanwhile, in India, the British colonial government also liked the idea of the Indian caste system, because it worked in their interests, too: a segregation of Aryan and non-Aryan along the lines of caste (and sometimes skin colour), with the upper castes being “Aryan” and the lower ones being “non-Aryan”.
If the idea worked there, why couldn’t work elsewhere?
One of the earliest examples I can think of the Aryan-race association in the US was used in the D.W. Griffith film “Birth of a Nation” (originally called “The Klansman”), from 1915. It’s about the heroic Klansman beating back the predatory black man to save the pure white woman. This Aryan only took up arms because he is “roused by mere instincts of self-preservation”:
The link below is one of the titles featuring “Aryan birthright” (which must be defended against “coloureds”) that appeared in that film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birth_of_a_nation_Aryan_quote.jpg
In another film of the same year, “The Aryan” , William S. Hart’s “Aryan” identity is defined in distinction from Mexicans.
The importance of music among young white supremacist males, and the training in the US army:
@bulanik:
Yes, this aryan non sense is really weird, considering that the roma people, gypsies, are the closest thing of aryans in Europe. On this light it is really weird that nazis went after them too.
But while we find the racial term “aryan” weird, stupid nonsense and even funny, equally stupid nonsensical and funny racial term “caucasian” is taken seriously and doing fine in USA. What that tells us? It was invented around the same time as “aryan” in the same context by the same racists in the same racist circles, in the context of the same racist theories, but still USA is using it as a race definition officially. It is still widely used as a valid racial definition. Not “white” but “caucasian”.
That is really revealing.
Unlike the turban-wearing folk that were targeted and discussed in the newspapers, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a helpful listing of drawings showing white guys – each with a paragraph of explanation – telling us which ones were safe, which ones could do harm…
The article you posted indicated that most Muslims don’t wear turbans.,. which is the case for every Muslim I have known except for one… also the 9/11 attackers were pointedly not to wear attire identifying them as Muslims.
There have been numerous articles over the years detailing the paraphernalia, attire, and distinguishing tattoos of Neo-nazis. Overt symbols such as swastika tattoos can bar your induction into the US military.
“The article you posted indicated that most Muslims don’t wear turbans.,.”
Should read
The article you posted indicated that most Muslims in the West don’t wear turbans.,.”
To Sam:
It is still widely used as a valid racial definition. Not “white” but “caucasian”.
Both terms are officially in use. I know people who use the term Caucasian because they do not like to identify themselves as White.
The article you posted indicated that most Muslims don’t wear turbans.,. which is the case for every Muslim I have known except for one… also the 9/11 attackers were pointedly not to wear attire identifying them as Muslims.
There have been numerous articles over the years detailing the paraphernalia, attire, and distinguishing tattoos of Neo-nazis. Overt symbols such as swastika tattoos can bar your induction into the US military.
So? Even if the article indicated most male Muslims didn’t wear turbans, Wade Michael Page (and his ilk) couldn’t distinguish the ‘difference’. That’s why the article was so – helpful.
Numerous articles? Never seen one. Drawings of white men and explanatory paragraphs, lists of tattoos, etc, etc, separating wheat from chaff…..um, NO.
sam says:
But while we find the racial term “aryan” weird, stupid nonsense and even funny, equally stupid nonsensical and funny racial term “caucasian” is taken seriously and doing fine in USA…..
Milton says:
I know people who use the term Caucasian because they do not like to identify themselves as White.
I’m am rather curious; which people do you mean, specifically? Why don’t they like to identify themselves as White?
The word “Caucasian” makes my skin crawl. Yet, only recently I was reminded that I could accurately designate myself as “caucasoid” if I so wanted because, technically, I am, and so are most of my family.
But why would I do that – why would anyone – knowing what the associations and implications are?
So? Even if the article indicated most male Muslims didn’t wear turbans, Wade Michael Page (and his ilk) couldn’t distinguish the ‘difference’. That’s why the article was so – helpful.
Not sure what Page thought but I suspect that he didn’t care if his victims were Muslims or not.
You can Google turbans and find plenty of information on the various sorts of turbans around the world and who wears them and how to tie them on Youtube, Ehow.com, Wikipedia, etc.
Numerous articles? Never seen one. Drawings of white men and explanatory paragraphs, lists of tattoos, etc, etc, separating wheat from chaff…..um, NO.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141937/Spot-neo-Nazi-Right-wing-extremist-wanted-attempted-murder-arrested-police-identify–By-tattoos.html
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/default_graphics.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_symbolism#Runic_letters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_skinhead#Style_and_clothing
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20111163-10391709/inside-americas-neo-nazi-movement/
http://www.yuma.usmc.mil/services/eo/documents/tattoos.ppt
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/Triskele.asp
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=neo+nazi+tattoos&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=951&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=HUA7UObsPMmw2QWHvIGgAg
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2006/fall/motley-crews/racist-skinhead-glossary
To Bulanik:
I’m am rather curious; which people do you mean, specifically?
Some people I have known over the years.. many of whom are left of center politically and would be construed as White.
Why don’t they like to identify themselves as White?
Maybe because terms such as Caucasian pride, Caucasian, power, or Caucasian supremacy… don’t exist. White supremacists.. in the US call themselves White.. not Caucasian.
@ Milton…ah, “Caucasian” sounds more elegant. LOL
Saying one is “Caucasian” is a way to say “white” without saying it.
Fair enough. My experience has been different. I have heard American white folk describe themselves as:
“white”,
“white Caucasian” or
“white European”.
If that individual described themselves as “Caucasian”, they also added “white” to the descriptor. They may have done that for my benefit – if I may surmise.
Back in the 1920s, a South Asian, Bhagat Singh Thind, claimed the right to US citizenship as a white person, due to his “purity of Aryan blood” because he Brahmin and was born in Punjab, India. However, he, according to the US Supreme Court, was not Caucasian in the “common understanding”, so he could not be included in the “statutory category” of white persons.
I believe this ruling was a fairly useful to the Asiatic Exclusion League at one time, and as a racist ruling, it stopped the immigration of Asian Indians into the US up until the 1960s when the law was changed.
The connotations associated with a white person calling themselves “Aryan” lacks class – to say the least! – but the roots of “Caucasian” hardly make it come up smelling like a rose either, as Sam said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind
@sam, re “Caucasian”, you said
The “why” it has become another and preferred word in place of “white” is not usually revealed because of it association with the white slave trade, and that early associations with racial superiority and, beauty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_beauties
@Milton. Oh dear. You needn’t have gone to the trouble, y’know.
Thank for telling me how to find out about South Asian and Middle Eastern headgear. What would I do without your pointers.
And all those chilling exposes, too (LOL), I noticed all those primary colours. I am fairly familiar with skins, since I grew up with them. Went to school with them. Even had one for a neighbour for several years….
But when I said:
Numerous articles? Never seen one. Drawings of white men and explanatory paragraphs, lists of tattoos, etc, etc, separating wheat from chaff…..um, NO.
That’s what I meant: drawings of ordinary people next to possibly dangerous ones and how to differentiate the different types, like in the original article on turbans…..LOL.
@Milton
Btw, I am probably more interested in tying a sari than a turban, truth be known….
drawings of ordinary people next to possibly dangerous ones and how to differentiate the different types, like in the original article
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/lifestyles/links/turbans_27.html
If you mean the article above, no where does it say that any of the people in the drawings are potentially dangerous. That’s your interpretation.. (which I really doubt you actually believe but do so just for the sake of argument..) and it would have been useless in identifying any of the Muslim attackers in the US.
So your point is moot.
And yes there have been articles in print and movies which differentiated the appearance of N@zi skins from anti racist skins (often close in appearance but the racist skins generally have racist tattoos (other links have already detailed these..) and red and white laces in their boots.
@ Uncle Milton:
It’s not the first time drawings have been used to distinguish friend from foe. Here are examples taken from several magazines such as Time and Life during WWII.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2nhkxz4.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/105ac9j.jpg
Oops, I meant pictures. Anyway, here is the drawing I was referring to.
http://i47.tinypic.com/vqrwbp.jpg
Some things never change.
To leigh204:
It’s not the first time drawings have been used to distinguish friend from foe.
Where in the article that I linked does it say “these are your friends and these are your enemies”…?
Also no turbans on any of these guys:
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fbi_hijackers-300×287.jpg
And there are multiple reports that some of them were at a strip clubs the night before the 9/11 attacks not exactly Islamic behavior.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Atta,_alcohol,_strip_clubs_and_drugs
Then there is the guy who looks like every day is corporate casual:
http://library.geographicalmedia.com/2009/34/224.jpg
leigh204:
Some things never change.
You are making a false analogy. It was a simple article about how turbans are worn around the world and it makes absolutely no mention of who is a “friend or foe”.
Would you have know this guy would become part of 911 attack team..?
One of 911 attackers Ziad Jarrah:
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/47049269_jarrah_pa_226.jpg
If you do any reading you will know that Muslim terrorists in the West have assimilative behavior so they will not be detected.
@ Uncle Milton
Two of Leigh’s pictures said nothing about friend or foe, so were they innocent informational pieces too?
To Abagond:
Two of Leigh’s pictures said nothing about friend or foe, so were they innocent informational pieces too?
Nope look again.. they all discuss who is a friend/ally or enemy:
This photo:
http://i47.tinypic.com/vqrwbp.jpg
comes from:
http://www.ep.tc/howtospotajap/
Look at the first page:
http://www.ep.tc/howtospotajap/howto03.html
http://i46.tinypic.com/105ac9j.jpg
As for this one above it states:
“…distinguish friendly Chinese from enemy alien Japs..”
The third one says it in the headline:
“How to tell your friends from the Japs”
http://i50.tinypic.com/2nhkxz4.jpg
Forgot one: The Anglo-Saxon
http://b.mp-farm.com/b/500×450.watermarks/2000000/2055769.jpg
@ Uncle Milton:
Turban or not, Wade Michael Page was unable to make a distinction. And it’s very telling when you see a drawing, basically, a guide of various men wearing turbans, to distinguish them from a taliban member to sikh men.
@ leigh204
Exactly.
All that puffing and blowing and Milton still couldn’t make a counter point.
@ Uncle Milton
Most Americans, even those at the Seattle Times, know their country is at war with certain men in turbans. It is not a Coincidence that such “guides” appear during wartime. Leigh was on the money.
Most Americans, even those at the Seattle Times, know their country is at war with certain men in turbans.
The illustrations of various types of Turbans was a link from this article:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010927&slug=turban270
“Understanding turbans: Don’t link them to terrorism”
“Not a good indicator
The irony of the American focus on turbans in the wake of the terrorist attacks is that, at least in this country, turbans are a very poor predictor of a person’s involvement in terrorist violence.
“Needless to say,” said Ellis Goldberg, head of the Middle East studies center at the UW, “none of [the hijackers] was wearing any type of turban.”
It is not a Coincidence that such “guides” appear during wartime. Leigh was on the money.
I disagree the article and illustrations were trying calm fears about people who wear turbans, not inflame them.
Now as to Afghan men and turbans. Much was made about the Northern Alliance whose leader, Ahmad Shah Massoud, was murdered just two days before 9/11 by an Al Queda operative. They were lauded heavily in the press and often wore the same or similar style turbans as the Taliban:
Northern Alliance soldiers with turbans:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8811033/A-decade-of-war-in-Afghanistan-in-50-pictures.html?image=1
http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/crime/national/2001/sept11/northern_alliance.html
http://fineartamerica.com/featured/northern-alliance-troops-under-general-everett.html
http://www.biyokulule.com/sawiro/sawirada_waaweyn/al-Qaeda2.jpg
Before the shooting, the Sikh turban was making its first foray into mainstream culture through high fashion. French designer Jean Paul Gaultier’s Summer collection showcased non-Sikh models wearing colorful “Sikh-style” turbans
http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/06/jean-paul-gaultier-menswear-spring-2013-collection.html
AFAIK, it’s rare to see Sikhs represented positively (if at all) in popular culture in the US (or even in India, I hear) that even non-Sikh models wearing “paghs” (what Sikhs call their turbans) in this way is a major step.
The Sikhs that I knew or worked with in my past, always told me that the turban is the target of discrimination, profiling, and violence.
I also saw this with my own eyes.
Thus, having the turban portrayed as aesthetic objects of high fashion is out of the ordinary.
In fact, next to this fashion collection, this is the only time outside of “The English Patient” that I have seen the Sikh turban shown as anything desirable, or aesthetic. Obviously it didn’t change anything; no-one seriously thought it would.
Has the appropriation of an article of a marginalized culture or faith by the mainstream fashion industry ever been good for the community from whom it was taken? After all, the skinheads shared the culture of the black Jamaicans, but it never stopped the far-right extremists from appropriating that style and fashion whilst still bringing harm black and brown peoples.
I remember a time when the “keffiyeh” became the hippest “new” fashion accessory several years back. The keffiyeh, traditionally an Arab scarf or headdress, a 2-colour houndstooth/check design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Male_with_Shemagh.jpg
I remember the scarf symbolizing and being called “anti-war”.
I think it’s safe to guess that the keffiyeh trend didn’t change the bleak reality of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism in the western world (not to mention the bleak reality of apartheid for Palestinians).
From what I gather, those sentiments might be on the rise.
It’s cool and “edgey” to wear the keffiyeh, but in some European countries, for a woman to wear a niqab (veil), they can face arrest, and I even heard of a hijab-wearing Iraqi woman being beaten to death in California not long ago, with note saying something like “go back home, you’re a terrorist” found nearby.
Maybe wearing a keffiyeh is only cool if you not an Arab, or a Muslim.
A Sikh man wearing his turban and long beard will be taunted (or feared) no less for his headgear being “cool”. Would Gaultier’s show have been as cutting edge and received as much positive attention in the fashion world if it were Indian walking down his runway? I also doubt whether any white men that take up the Sikh turban fashion would face the same consequences, on a daily basis, that Sikhs do for practicing their culture or faith.
I don’t mean to say that cultural or religious garb or practices should not be shared. Culture never exists in a vacuum — and is never “pure”, nor should it be. It’s ever-changing and grwoing. But, in a society where immigrants and communities of colour can be gunned down for their very being, and are marginalized on many levels, it doesn’t get anyone anywhere pretending these power differences don’t exist.
Sonny Singh, jazz musician, has written about his experience of being a turban-wearing American Sikh:
http://www.leftturn.org/Sonny-Sept11-testimony
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sonny-singh/sikh-response-to-nypd-surveillance-and-islamophobia_b_1336722.html
@ Uncle Milton:
Whose fears is the article/illustrations trying to calm? White people’s fears? And even if people could tell these turban wearing gentlemen apart, some murderous, delusional, racist person(s), hell bent on destruction, wouldn’t care about differentiating turbans. As long as the person looked different, wore different attire, basically, not white, that’s all that matters to them.
By all accounts, Wade Michael Page is considered a domestic terrorist. Now when you think of a terrorist, the common thought is that everyone who wears a turban must be a terrorist. Oh, but wait, Wade Michael Page didn’t wear a turban, did he?
I vaguely remember this cartoon of the Barack and Michelle Obama.
http://gothamist.com/2008/07/14/new_yorker_obama_cover_ironic_or_of.php
Here Mr Obama is drawn as a Muslim with a turban, and Mrs Obama is drawn with an Afro – both symbolic of a resistance to assimilation to whiteness and, thus, threatening. What a frightening couple – 2 aliens. LOL.
I recall watching news coverage of the last US election and heard things like:
– If Obama really loved America he would change his middle name from Hussein”,
- It’s good his wife does not wear her in a ‘natural’.
(Because an Afro is what “dangerous” black folk wear, I’d guess!).
By the way, Wade Michael Page’s rampage is remarkably similar to the February 14, 1977 crime to Frederick Wm. Cowan. Page is the Cowan of the 21st century.
By the way, Wade Michael Page’s rampage is remarkably similar to the February 14, 1977 crime to Frederick Wm. Cowan. Page is the Cowan of the 21st century.
Here are similarities:
Both killed six people
Both had two siblings
both shot in the head
both had military backgrounds
both got in trouble in the military
both had tattoos
both shot the police officer
both shot victims from India
both are white supremacists
both are racists
both are bald
both birth years end with an odd number
both ages in the range of 31-40
both had handguns
both had shootings on the first half of the month
both mother’s names are seven letters, (Beverly and Dorothy)
both fathers are retired
both days of birth end with an “1″, (November 11 and June 1)
both have victims over 29
both praised Hitler
both praised the Nazis
both does Nazi salutes
both are racist against non-whites
both have connections to Holmes (Cowan shot Frederick Holmes while Wade Michael Page lives in Holmes Avenue)
both have connections to Fred (Cowan shot Fred Holmes, while Wade Michael Page’s friend was a Fred Lucas)
both have connections to James and Holmes (Cowan shot James Green and Frederick Holmes), while 16 days after James Holmes shooting, Wade Michael Page start shooting the people and he died by his own hand.
both shot police officers of Celtic origin, Gaelic origin, ancestry from the British Isles, 16 letters long, are New Yorkers, came from New York, Celtic first names, first names five letters long, middle names five letters long, last names six letters long, both names have five syllables long ,both shot police officers have children (Allen Bruce McLeod have two children and Brian James Murphy have one biological child). both have a child have five letters long (Allen Bruce McLeod is Scottish, while Brian James Murphy is of Irish origin)
both shoot Indian victims that have the birth years in the 1940s and both came from British India.
both shot at police officers have three letters long (Ray Satiro and Sam Lenda)
Also, both shot at police officers have also have names begin with S (Ray Satiro and Sam Lenda).
both have muscular builds
both weigh over 200 pounds
both lives are returned to obscurity
and both are gone for good.
Wade Michael Page is the son of Jesse Alvin and Beverly Page.
Jesse Alvin Page is the son of Jeff and Hazel (Roberson) Page.
Jeff Page is the son of Daniel Charles and Ann Page.
So wait, they produce/listen to music with African origin to use it with their cause? Lol, just like with the swaztika symbol being originally Indian they took this too. Laughable.