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BWE: Black Women’s Empowerment

BWE writer Evia Moore with her man

Black Women’s Empowerment (c. 2007- ), or BWE for short, is a movement of black female writers and bloggers in North America and Britain that seeks to wake up black women from their narrow, unhappy and dead-end lives of service and loyalty to family, church and the black community and put themselves first for once. They are best known for pushing the idea that marrying white is a more promising road to happiness than marrying black.

The argument goes like this:

Black men often marry outside the race, so why in the world should black women limit themselves to just black men? Especially when in America there are only 70 single black men for every 100 single black women?

Black women are taught to have loyalty to the black community and work to uplift it. But without the help of black men that is a waste of time. Besides, why should black women make sacrifices that black men are not making?

Wholesome-looking couple featured on Evia’s website

More: White men make better husbands than black men. The numbers show that they are way less likely to divorce you or beat you. They are more likely to be good fathers since more of them had good fathers on which to model themselves. And so on.

The less-than-wholesome Ike Turner with his wife Tina

Many if not most black men are Damaged Beyond Repair (DBR). No black woman can save them no matter how much of a chance they give them – they will forever be screwed up. Marrying them can only end in tears. Think Ike and Tina Turner or Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston. If nothing else, the huge oversupply of black women allows black men to get away with unacceptable behaviour.

James Earl Jones and wife

Most successful black men pursue and marry women with white or light skin. Think Thurgood Marshall, Frantz Fanon, Montel Williams, Lionel Richie, James Earl Jones, Quincy Jones, Marvin Gaye, Frederick Douglass, Sidney Poitier, Prince, Russell Simmons, Billy Dee Williams, Dave Chappelle and on and on.

And it gets worse:

The biggest enemy of black women and their happiness is not white racism, as many suppose, but black men. It is black men who beat them, leave them, fail to protect them and defend them, who tear them down in public and in private with a strain of racist misogyny unseen in any other race of man. Think the Swedish racist cake.

Thus BWE.

My opinion:

  1. Very few white men marry black women – only one in 400 of those who are married. A quarter of 1%. Not all that promising.
  2. BWE is driven by internalized racism. Opening up to dating men outside your race is one thing, but if you have to put down men of your own race to do it, something is seriously wrong. I doubt many black women, for example, would feel comfortable dating any man who puts down the women of his own race. He would rightly be seen as someone with Issues who is best avoided. Likewise BWE women. It is Sergeant Willie Pete all over again.

See also:

1,120 Responses

  1. I remember going to her site, Eva’s, and reading some of her articles thinking “why do I feel weird reading her talk about all black men like this?” But then she says something to effect “Now, I know that not all black men are beyond repair…” and I almost breath a sigh of relief until she continues with” but the majority are.” She bolds, hightlights and use red font color like she’s yelling for all black women to drop black men as a group.

    Just because you picked out a couple bad chocolates from the box doesn’t mean that everything in it is garbage.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt this.


  2. Yeah; it seems strange to need to justify dating out of the race but maybe they feel guilty about it, that and why only white men, plenty of asians and others out there as well.


  3. Oh yeah, that ’70% of black women are single’ thing is pure rubbish. What’s the age group? According to one source they are including every woman that identifies herself as a black from ages 16 to 86 (i think those are the right numbers). Can they even get married (non-heterosexual couples)? Do they want to be married or be in a relationship? Define relationship (everyone has a different view of this word) etc.

    They should be encouraging women to find themselves a good partner not a ‘white man who’ll make a good partner’ just a good partner/spouse.


  4. @ V-4

    That was my question. Why only white men?

    “White men make better husbands than black men”–This statement alone makes me roll my eyes. It makes it seem as though she is excusing white men beating their wives or ignoring it, but happy to point out when black men do it. Forgetting the fact that there are white men that are married to the woman and around but still manages to be a terrible father.


  5. Black women should date whoever lives up to their standards and makes them happy.


  6. why is it so crazy to just see guys as guys and not a black guy, white guy, asian guy, etc? I don’t understand why people feel obligated to anything. if you happen to find a guy you really connect with and you’re attracted to him, that’s all that matters. it’s not self hatred if you happened to like a guy of a different race more than a guy of your own race. that is ridiculous, abagond. what about personality, common interests, physical attractiveness, etc? unless i’m some weirdo and for most people, “race” is a big factor in who they decide to date. why does it matter that less than 1% of white males marry black women? if a couple doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work. I think it’s wrong for people to be striving to marry someone over their skin tone, regardless of whether it’s their own or someone else’s. What kind of foundation does a marriage have if it’s originally based in something as meaningless as that?


  7. Aba,

    Can I please say something? No one is more suited to understand and uplift the black woman than a black man. Black men have gotten a bum rap from day damn one. Joblessness, incarceration, police suspicion and brutality, etc…the list goes on and on.

    Black women have it hard too…
    Being on the very bottom of the totem pole with beauty, finances, health, child care and family etc, we need each other to lift each other up.

    Blacks have been pitted against each other since day one and frankly I am sick of it! I love black men. Love their strength, their insight, their refusal to give up, their spirit, their manliness, their fierceness and everything that makes them…them.

    I had a Sicilian partner in my ignorant days. His mom looked A LOT like me, if you know what I’m saying. She hated me and he chose…HER. Lesson Learned.

    We need to stop this madness now and put the Willie Lynch Syndrome behind us.


  8. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 01:19:39 deepdkchocolate

    What does “Being on the bottom of the totem pole with beauty mean?”


  9. @ dee

    In my personal experience, I noticed that people never (rarely) admit it but race IS a factor when they are looking to date someone.

    It is just the way they have been programed. On the surface, they’ll tell you that it doesn’t matter, they are colorblind. But when you dig further, it is another story.

    I do agree with your assessment though….it shouldn’t matter.


  10. @ eepdkchocolate

    It means that black women are usually considered the ugliest women in the world…


  11. @ AnnaSuki

    “They should be encouraging women to find themselves a good partner not a ‘white man who’ll make a good partner’ just a good partner/spouse.”

    I agree with that.


  12. I think Captain Pete and these broads should hook up with each other. They are made for each other!


  13. For a short while I visited a few BWE web sites. I liked the idea of Black women opening themselves up to other dating options, just like Black men have done. However, I disliked the constant demonizing of Black men and the Black community in general. I don’t see how advising, encouraging, or supporting a woman who wants to date men outside of her race necessitates demonizing the men of that woman’s race!

    You missed one of the more popular BWE sites http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/. I visited this site the longest (a few months). I stopped going there after she had a post stating that Black people were more racist than Whites!!!


  14. @ abagond:

    Maybe it’s just me, but the woman featured in the picture with James Earl Jones is NOT his wife. I’m positive the woman is actress, Jane Fonda.


  15. Ms. Evia Moore is an attractive woman. I don’t see what’s so special about her guy. She can do better. Is that awful of me to say that? *shrugs*


  16. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 02:19:37 grin and bear it

    Leigh wins the prize for best vision and overall pop culture knowledge. That IS Jane Fonda with James Earl Jones! The picture comes directly from Jane Fonda’s web site. Good work, Leigh. :-)

    In terms of BWE…I guess I don’t understand what’s so empowering about women defining themselves in relation to men, black, white or otherwise. Doesn’t that violate the number 1 rule of women’s empowerment?


  17. I agree with Abagond’s points. Especially the second point. I remember really liking this half Black, half White guy. He was one of the nicest people I had met at the time. He dated a few White girls, but I didn’t think anything of that until he began talking about how he hated being half Black and saying all sorts of horrible things about Black people. The unfortunate part of this situation is that the only White woman who will probably stick with him would be a racist one who agrees with all his self-hatred and encourages racism against other Black people.

    I would also add that dating outside of your race increases the risk of dealing with racist in-laws, as well. You could also end up disappointed with the lack of understanding from a boy/girlfriend. Let’s face it: our race and our experiences related to it shaped us a lot. It could take a lot more time searching for someone of another race who understands where you’re coming from (especially if they’re White) than searching for someone of the same race who gets it and accepts that racism exists around them.


  18. This reminds me of the following (notice a familiar name in the posts):

    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-philly-e-kicks-dr-goddess-off-her-cloud-of-ignorance/
    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-phillys-second-dr-goddess-response-time-for-strong-coffeetalk/

    And speaking of old Sarge, for a while, haven’t heard from him until a couple of years ago when I found out what happened.

    He got caught in his own programming of whiteness in his own radio show when he agreed with a white male caller making a racist derogatory remark about black women. A blogger named J. Writer recorded the show, and I listened.

    Then, Pete and his crew made a couple of more videos trying to play off their mistake, but the damage was severely done. Pete ended up banned from several video sites except one where he still makes hundreds of videos with only a fraction of his audience still faithful.

    It seems like we have a funny, or rather not-so-funny, definition of what it means to be empowered. Some of us think that it means that to be empowered we have to abandon certain members of our group and get with the group who’s ancestors…well, you know whose descendants still hold ill will towards us based on the fact that we aren’t them.

    To me this is a sick case of trying to get the oppressor to love us, and to do that we must discard our people.


  19. The relevance of the video may not be immediately apparent, but give it a little time:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wy_9DbsTgk


  20. I’m pretty sure the bulk of this rhetoric and thinking only exists online.


  21. Damn. You beat by about 2 days. That’ll teach me to procrastinate.

    I’m pretty sure the bulk of this rhetoric and thinking only exists online.

    Yes. The Internet has given a soapbox to the self-pity that is normally associated with bitchist movements like this one.


  22. Leigh if it is awful of you, I’m awful too. I thought the very same thing. But everyone does their own thing…

    Doan know ’bout har man, but her?

    http://evolvingslices.typepad.com/.a/6a00e554e3a2a58834016306167b88970d-popup

    Just say no.


  23. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 09:18:27 menelik charles

    oh dear.


  24. @menelik charles

    My sentiments exactly. I hear horror stories of black girls who go to Europe from Africa with their white husbands and even worse stories from those who marry Arab men and move to the Middle East. So, I don’t get this fascination.

    If i may add, we also hear horror stories among friends and family of our own black African men. So basically a person is a person, their values have very little to do with their skin colour. Culture matters more than race IMO.


  25. And how is telling black women to marry outside their race empowering? This just reeks of internalized racism and bad judgement.


  26. The denial of the effects of internalized racism in certain Black people is no different to the denial and effects of racism by some white people. So it should not be surprising that they sometimes find a match.


  27. Malkia, you have a very nice picture….

    I definitly dont like seeing black males demonised and put down

    I personaly beleive everyone has a right to date and get together with anyone they please. If they start using stereotypes as an excuse , they might be doing it for the wrong reasons…but even then, I dont want to judge anyone’s personal desician. I just dont think its ok to bash entire groups of like looking people in the process. And , I dont like pointing fingers at people and psycho analysing why they would do something without even knowing them.

    There are a huge amount of reasons why people are atracted to other people, without even talking about race. People can be abused and put down inside their families and then totaly regect people that remind them of their familes. Someone can be abused growing up and seek out someone that reminds them of that person just to replay that drama over and over.

    In my case, thank God, raised in an integrated neighborhood , Ive been atracted to black women from day one…Ive always admired their beauty and they turn my head on the street in a group of people.And, I also had , and, benafitted from having black male freinds since day one.Ive also had white girl freinds, and, while never being in a long term relationship , have admired the beauty of Asian women.Its like there is a spark there that just never was realised in my life yet.

    I beleive in people not being locked in to one group of people, but hardly at the expence of putting down groups of people and stereotyping tehm


  28. More propaganda to discredit, discourage and look down at black men black women (black love) relationships.
    I would feel sorry for these women if it was young and genuine ignorance but this is not genuine or ingnorance just foolishness.

    Say no to drugs lol (racism, internalized or other wise)


  29. Leigh if it is awful of you, I’m awful too. I thought the very same thing. But everyone does their own thing…

    Well I’m awful too and revel in it. That man looks like the town drunk! If she were really smart, she would have gone out, visited an upper-class nursing home and found herself a wealthy white man with one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. So what if she had to wipe his buttocks and feed him through a tube, it would be worth it in the long run(or short run). Now that is my dream white man!


  30. Herneith said:
    “I think Captain Pete and these broads should hook up with each other. They are made for each other!”

    ROFL!


  31. @Leigh: crazy thought, but maybe their relationship is deeper than society’s definition of what’s “hot” and “not”

    @Bulanik: you’re not responsible for other people. as long as you’re a good person, that’s all that matters. it honestly doesn’t matter what others say. if you let negativity get to you, the “haters” have won. if you just ignore them and become successful and happy, you’ll win.

    @malkia: well, marrying outside our race would be beastiality.. you know, since we’re all humans. people tend to forget that

    @brothawolf: give me a break. nobody is responsible for what their ancestors did. judge people by who they are, and what they’ve accomplished. just because someone’s white doesn’t mean they’re an “opressor”, and just because someone’s ancestors were slaves doesn’t mean they’re perpetually a victim. yes, institutionalized racism still exists, but it can be overcome with hard work. what a toxic mindset. people are just people. in a country like America, where so many cultures overlap, it seems natural that more people with different ancestries are becoming couples, due to having more and more ideologies and interests in common

    @Iris: well, that’s his parents’ fault, for giving him that pointless mindset. I don’t see the point of forgoing someone just because they’re a different skin tone, for someone else of your skin tone, if you happen to not have much in common beyond the color of your skin. I just think that is illogical. being the same skin tone doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’re going to bond well together, or face no problems. if love (and a desire to be committed) is strong it will overcome all obstacles, regardless of what they are. like I said before, people are people. I don’t think people should feel pressure to marry/date anyone in particular. Honestly, I think people only have “types” when they trust stereotypes to guide them in the dating world (or even with just friends), ignoring the fact that everyone’s an individual. I think these stereotypes are what make people think certain features are more or less attractive on a person, as it translates in their mind as meaning something more. I guess what I’m saying is that personality is more important than looks, because looks can be decieving. I think that’s how day-to-day racism works. Someone has a negative experience with Person 1, and then sees Person 2 who has similar physical characteristics, and is lead to have a negative impression of that other person, without even knowing anything about them. I don’t know, I mean it reminds me of when I once hardly noticed a guy until I got to know him better, and because I started to really like his personality, I suddenly started seeing him in a different way, as if I had suddenly been awoken to his attractiveness! Most other girls hardly paid attention to him, but I just thought he was a babe. (I always fall for eccentric guys, haha.) Anyways, what I’m really getting to is that I think “your reality” is something you create in your mind. Two people can see the same thing and yet see it differently, but it’s not like these viewpoints are stuck in stone

    @HD: I disagree, unless the person attributes stereotypes to people. In that case, I agree. But otherwise, I don’t see what race itself would affect. What I said to Iris relates to this

    @saadiyah: I don’t understand why people closed themselves off in the first place. it’s ironic for someone to think they’ve evolved by starting to date outside of their race (which I mean as a social construct) when at the same time, closing people of their own race out, which is essentially the same thing they did before, in reverse. In my opinion, it’s just as bad for someone to only date people of their race (regardless of whether someone of a different race would perfect for them in every other way) as it is to only date out

    @diaryofanegress: stop generalizing people. not every black man or black woman falls under those lines. to say a black man can’t understand and uplift a black woman is ridiculous. otherwise, why are so many black men and women married? why do you feel responsible for the collective of black people as a whole? you can only really control your life, that’s all you should really be worrying about. someone dating outside of their race doesn’t necessarily mean that they hate guys in their own race. it might be true for some people, but I really don’t think there’s a direct correlation with that. Again, read what I said to Iris and you’ll get what I mean. just because that one relationship with that sicilian guy didn’t work doesn’t mean every other relationship with people of different races is also doomed to failure

    @the cynic: someone with sense

    @v-4: why would someone feel guilty?


  32. you can only really control your life, that’s all you should really be worrying about.

    No. People can influence others through their words and their deeds. Their words and attitude also affect people who depend on them, like their lovers or their children. When people hurt them, or when they are influence their children with verbal abuse and stereotypes, that can have repercussions throughout that persons life.

    someone dating outside of their race doesn’t necessarily mean that they hate guys in their own race.

    No. But when they use misleading statistics, fallacious arguments, and engage in demonizing poor black men and black women who support them, it does.

    Dee, your writing seems familiar. You wouldn’t happen to be the same person who is called “DeeDee” in these comments?

    http://mrlaureltonqueens.com/2012/05/08/off-god-forgives-black-women-dont-mr-banks-is-a-charlatan-its-been-a-long-time-coming-but-i-know-a-change-wont-come-black-women-are-owed-something/#comments


  33. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 19:43:08 Menelik Charles

    I think the real, underlying, problem for a race of defemininised, masculized, women is that America’s true ‘Romeo and Juliet’ coupling are the Black man and white women. Historically (and for very good damned reasons) it was Black women and white men who were determined to keep them apart. It was their coupling which was daring, dangerous, and against the morality of the day.,

    No one could prevent unions between white men (oppressors, enslavers and rapists) and Black females (oppressed, enslaved, raped), and Black men risked their lives and those of their families by attempting to do so.

    There is nothing romantic or daring about the white male Black female coupling so BWE nuts demonize Black men and whitewash the image of white males so as to surround such unions with daring (as though Black men could prevent the loudest, angriest, least lady-like females from doing what the hell they like, and the most powerful race of men as well lol).

    Thing is, some, or many, Black females are so masculine, so angry, they see most non-assertive, quiet, white males, as virtual females.

    Man, that reality’s enough to make any women angry lol


  34. it was Black women and white men who were determined to keep them apart.

    I think you mean white men placed into existence laws that keep/or at best attempted prevented this from happening whilst these same laws protected their rights (white men) to police black women’s sexuality…

    Furthermore, there is no historical evidence that speaks to black men preferring white women…i have looked and looked and overwhelming they chose black women and vice versa…

    Careful, least you sound like the same group of women you dislike..


  35. Thing is, some, or many, Black females are so masculine, so angry, they see most non-assertive, quiet, white males, as virtual females.

    I don’t buy the aggressive black woman stereotype. They only seem to exist on the Internet, inner city areas, or in high level corporate positions. Most black men have no problems with black women. The thing is that the whole BWE and BMV (with the MRA and race realism), is a cultural movement that advocates for cultural narcissism and individual action instead of social change and sacrifice ie bitchism.


  36. Abagond:

    When will blackwomen in the US and beyond realize that blackmen hating themselves and the women of their race has always been “The Master Plan?” Slavery is not over sistas, we’re still fighting the powers-that-be on this planet tooth and nail. Again, blackwomen don’t connect the dots. Real blackmen are not visible to the naked eye, and there’s a reason for that. The blackmen that we see in public are not the real thing. Whitemen and others who control business, government, media, religion…pick and choose the kind of blackmen that we see in society. Blackwomen know what the hell is going on. Sistas like Evia Moore know that divide and conquer is the game that is played by whitemen, yet, she cries about self-hating blackmen, as if they represent the best of black manhood. Honestly, James Earl Jones, Montel Williams, and the rest of them don’t represent blackmen like me. As blackmen, we wrongly assumed that whitemen stopped lusting after blackwomen…Wrong! A lot of us fell into the trap of chasing after whitewomen, knowing damn’ well that whitemen wanted us to swerve in that direction anyway…Jokes On Us! What are the true thoughts of most blackmen on this issue? Speaking for myself, blackwomen who run into the arms of other men are playing themselves. The same group of whitemen that claim to love them so much are at odds with blackmen on this planet. I’ve never accepted the premise of blackmen supporting other men stepping on our toes, just to get on the good side of sistas. Some blackmen on this blog will say that they’re not affected by this issue, honestly, i don’t believe it. In the past, i was one of those brothas who lied to get along with sistas, pretending not to be overly concerned. As far as statistics are concerned…Whatever! The damage is already done. Blackwomen have been in bed with racist whitemen for a long time, we see the results of certain sistas who shall remain nameless, helping whitey enslave countless numbers of brothas in this country. Self-hating sistas are just as bad as their male counterparts…i don’t see any difference between the two. Yes, some sistas are victimized by black devils in the worst way, and they will be dealt with…No Doubt! The fundamental point i wanna get across to blackwomen, is that, jumping into bed with other men is not gonna benefit them and our race in the long run. If blackmen are the source of their pain, deal with the blackmen in question, instead of punking themselves for the same type of whitemen who control the blackmen they claim to hate so much!!!

    Tyrone
    Black Eros
    PS…For those who say that i’m being a hypocrite on this issue…Not So! I’ve never supported the idea of blackmen turning against their better half. I may bs around with the inter-racial sex/dating issue from time to time, however, black love is always front and center in any convo i have relating to this issue. This issue is about black people turning against themselves, not the same thing.


  37. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 20:11:27 Menelik Charles

    Phobe…you be careful, dear…that the mixture of truth I tell above doesn’t hurt your feelings, sweetie!


  38. [...] BWE: Black Women’s Empowerment [...]


  39. phoebeprunelle wrote:

    “Careful, least you sound like the same group of women you dislike..”

    - – -

    That’s one of the problems with this whole BWE phenomenon: you have a few BW making nasty, hateful, stereotypical remark about BM, and then you have a group of BM who, by lobbing a well stocked arsenal of nasty, degrading, anti-BW stereotypes, are living up to the accusations that BM pubically degrade BW. It’s just fighting fire with more fire….

    Then, too, you’ll find BM posters here who mostly come out of the woodwork only when the time to stomp on BW rolls around, as it does at least once a year.


  40. dee,

    You said, “give me a break. nobody is responsible for what their ancestors did. judge people by who they are, and what they’ve accomplished. just because someone’s white doesn’t mean they’re an “opressor”, and just because someone’s ancestors were slaves doesn’t mean they’re perpetually a victim. yes, institutionalized racism still exists, but it can be overcome with hard work. what a toxic mindset. people are just people. in a country like America, where so many cultures overlap, it seems natural that more people with different ancestries are becoming couples, due to having more and more ideologies and interests in common”

    At first I wasn’t going to give your comment the time of day seeing as how I’ve seen similar comments from similar minded people. Somehow, I can’t resist seeing as how you and they suffer from a severe lack of reading comprehension, another symptom of the WRM (white racist mindset) it seems.

    At what point did I say anything related about ancestors? Nowhere. So, let’s get that straight, please.

    Furthermore, I am honestly sick and tired of people (mostly white) telling me and others to judge people by who they are. History tells us that’s not the way white have judged my people for centuries. They always judge us in one huge monolithic glance of inferiority and savagery. In fact as proven by the trolls that show up here they still do that! Why not give them a lesson in judging people on who they are?

    Besides, I nor any other person of color started this trend by the way.

    I never generalized white people as oppressors, but I never omitted that they, by and large, are still overprivileged in this society based on skin color alone, and, again by and large, seem to care less.

    I also never said mentioned anything about slaves or being perpetual victims of any sort. Where on Earth did you get that from?

    It seems like you’re doing nothing put pulling straws.

    And don’t give me that hard work stuff. Working hard doesn’t doesn’t always guarantee that you will reach middle-class status let alone become a member of the Fortune 500. Yes, I am aware there are people of color who have “made it”, but there are also many people who haven’t. And it’s not because they’re bitter and lazy. It’s because this society’s capitalism is screwed up.

    Dee, do yourself a favor and wake up, or least try to hear where we’re coming from although I have a feeling you won’t seeing as how you prefer to live in your own little American utopia where there is such an American dream. I, on the other hand, choose to remain awake. I’m tired of dreaming.


  41. Satanforce,

    And what’s more pathetic is that one of Pete’s boys (Kaptain Solo) made a show with him (Kaptain Solo) cursing out Pete in spades. Pete, as bad as he proclaimed in his shows – usually from on-air meltdowns, just sat there and said “mmm hmmm” at every comment made at him.

    I don’t know what to say about that dude only that it’s an understatement to say that he has serious problems. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up on the news.

    As for the links to the website I’ve posted, this sister is like his clone. I think it was you that told me about her using Jay From Philly, the poster boy for Tea Party minded trolls, as proof against black men. Jay, as we all know, is a white male, and this is part of the BWE formula that’s illustrated.

    Man, oh man.


  42. on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 12:07:49 Kwamla
    The denial of the effects of internalized racism in certain Black people is no different to the denial and effects of racism by some white people.

    - – -

    I totally agree!


  43. Phobe…you be careful, dear…that the mixture of truth I tell above doesn’t hurt your feelings, sweetie!

    Wutt? Lol. seriously, most functional black people don’t go around tooting menelik charles’ “truth”…lol


  44. That’s one of the problems with this whole BWE phenomenon: you have a few BW making nasty, hateful, stereotypical remark about BM, and then you have a group of BM who, by lobbing a well stocked arsenal of nasty, degrading, anti-BW stereotypes, are living up to the accusations that BM pubically degrade BW. It’s just fighting fire with more fire….

    Fiamma, what amuses me is that none of this stuff they talk is based on any real historical accuracy. It is just their own narcissistic need to be the center of the universe.


  45. Menelik Charles Wrote…

    “No one could prevent unions between white men (oppressors, enslavers and rapists) and Black females (oppressed, enslaved, raped), and Black men risked their lives and those of their families by attempting to do so.”

    If you’re referring to the era of chattel slavery, it would be prudent to do more research on the topic before one mentions the consensual coupling of African men and so-called white women. During the physical bondage of that era Africans in diaspora were seldom seen as humans and considered no more than property; with a status lower than that of a Horse.

    In the majority of cases there were no consensual couplings of so-called white women with African men who already had families as well as African men who were on the run between slave plantations. In a number of circumstances, due to the fact that Africans had no station or agency, the early whites had the authority to virtually do as they pleased with many of their African slaves.

    The African man was occasionally seen as an “exotic creature” and a way for white women to indulge in convenient sexual gratification in-as-much as white men frequently took advantage of the stations of African women for their own desires. For the early enslaved African man this was typically a non-consensual act, spear-headed by the fact that at the time, for an African man to speak of such an act was unheard of as it would mean dire repercussions. The white women of the time were generally known for using the accusation of rape if such acts started to raise any sort of suspicion.


  46. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 00:17:23 Menelik Charles

    Phobe, as an allegedly “dysfunctional” Black man, I would caution you to stay well away from the area of psychotherapy: or any language pertaining to this subject, dear lol


  47. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 00:20:08 Menelik Charles

    Its weird they should call it ‘Black Women’s Empowerment’ when the only people who could hope to be ‘empowered’ by such perverse logic are white men loooool


  48. okay my power has been out, but thank you for doing this post, i don’t appreciate that you ONLY covered one type of BWE. BWE is a diverse movment, you’re talking about the something new crew here, you complely overlooked/ignored website like WHATABOUTOURDAUGHTERS, LOVINMYSISTAS, crunk feminist, and bloggers like siditty. There are plenty in the BWE movement who don’t see Black men that way at all.

    Real BWE believe that empowerment comes from black women making the best CHOICES for them and real BWE seek to establish EQUALITY for Black women, equality for all people, NOT superiority and on top of that real people who seek to empower would NEVER tell bm to discout black men and automatically assume white men were better, we teach to judge by the individual and go with the man (OR WOMAN) who loves and respects you regardless and above all, if you don’t have a partner or if you’re happy being single that doesn’t make you inferior or a lesser person, love yOU FOR YOU regardless. LOVE YOUR NATURAL HAIR, LOVE YOUR DARK SKIN, LOVE YOUR RICH AFRICAN FEATURES AND DON’T LET THE WORLD MAKE YOU INTO A CARICATURE AND HAVE YOU FEELING LIKE YOU’RE LESS THAN BECAUSE YOU’RE A BLACK WOMAN.

    THAT IS THE MAIN POINT OF BWE AND ABAGOND YOU OVERLOOKED THAT.


  49. and whataboutourdaughters is VERY CRITICAL of white men who bash black women, she just did a post about the white male radio host who made those racist/sexist comments about the black women during the olympics and them playing in mud for practice. she has spoken out against don imus and other white men she doesn’t just bash black men. But the other websites you mentioned yes many of them are backward and do bash black men and i understand ur being offended by it abagond, i’m offended by it too.

    I actually went and posted on one of the forums you mentioned some years ago and I was attacked and kicked off because I said I didn’t agree with their representation of Black men, so they disrespect Black women too…there is NOTHING empowering about it.


  50. you should have looked at the DAWN ALI network, i know the ads are rough, but it should be in the top: http://www.dawnali.com/

    there are some very good posts on there if i do say so myself


  51. @Peanut,

    I don’t know about Siditty…her empowerment message seems to mirror that of Evia, Halima and Mrs. Karazin..


  52. quoting from Beau Sia’s poem, Hip Hop, “I know that anyone who as suffered at the hands of oppression would NEVER be insensitive to my own struggle”

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNGshEOa8dI)

    @ 1:38


  53. @dee

    Well you know; the whole “black women are the spine of the black community and its their gift and their curse to be its caretakers and supporters, to be the matyrs for its black men” kind of deal.

    In going out with men of another race they may feel like they are betraying their own, especially by going out with white men, the oppressor of their own people.

    And I guess from the perspective of a BWE whose had one bad relationship after another, its like well if I’m going to get raped, abused, murdered or mistreated anyways…..why not get with the abusive, raping piece of dog crap that has money/power as the one that doesn’t?

    Basically for whatever reason; life has ultimately lead them to the opinion that from a moral perspective at best black men and white men are no different.

    So it becomes a matter of which monster is the most logical one to get with.


  54. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 08:06:11 Menelik Charles

    @ V-4

    I think your words possibly inadvertently portray just how sick, self-loathing, and deluded, BWE merchants are! They practically invent a Black patriarchy when its a matriarchy which exists in the family and community; they invent Black male opponents to their image when it is the white male who promotes whites, Latins and lighter sister before any Chocolate Cuties…

    These women are partially their own worst enemies because they hate themselves so much and they are, typically, directly responsible for our sons and daughters hating their skin tones and nappy hair…

    But they dont wanna talk about the primary role they play in the downfall of the Black family and community: they just blame white America’s ‘usual suspect’, the Black man.

    What cowards!

    Let them piss off and go hang out with the KKK and for God sake live their lives and leave Black men out of their mouths and minds!


  55. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 08:25:31 Melissa Jenkins

    I think the real, underlying, problem for a race of defemininised, masculized, women is that America’s true ‘Romeo and Juliet’ coupling are the Black man and white women.

    Wow! You really put DEEPP, DEEP thought into bm.wf couplings versus wm/bf couplings. And as much as you would like to believe that all black women are masculine and undesirable, ALL of us know that that is not true.

    There is nothing romantic or daring about the white male Black female coupling.

    It sounds like you study bf/wm couplings to compare to wf/bm couplings to find things to make you feel superior. I dont spend time comparing but I know quite a few wm/bf couplings that are romantic… but I wont get into it.

    Your comments are very abusive. You think that white women are superior to black women and I feel sorry for you considering you probably have a black mother.

    Regardless of how much you preach that Romeo and Juliette bull, a lot of bm/ww dont work out. I always laugh about ww bragging about the POTUS being a product of a bm/ww union. It is funny how those women forget that his black father left his mother and her “precious” white skin. He has only seen his father a couple of times and he is still messed up behind it. Other famous biracial people who are the product of Romeo and Juleitte pairings where Black Romeo left White Juliette with kids: Hallie Berry, Mariah Carey, Alisha Keys. I can name many more.

    Seal couldnt even keep a relationship with Heidi Klum. I get the impression that she is a sweet person….other than when she judges Project Runway but that is another conversation.

    Black men have a LOT of issues just like black women.


  56. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 08:31:42 Melissa Jenkins

    Abagond, you have to do a post on the other side to be fair


  57. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 08:46:10 Menelik Charles

    To “be fair” about what?


  58. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 08:49:57 Menelik Charles

    Miss Jenkins,

    I have absolutely no stake in mixed relationships (you do, I take) I am merely stating what the symbolism of various mix-race pairings represents. Reality was not at all the issue.


  59. Abagond, you have to do a post on the other side to be fair

    What other side? No gives a damn about SWP, Kaptain Solo, or the rest of them?

    I dont spend time comparing but I know quite a few wm/bf couplings that are romantic… but I wont get into it.

    (then goes on to list unsuccessful black man, white woman pairings)

    Typical BWE logic. Whirte man/Black woman pairing based on romantic feelings and genuine attraction, Black man/White woman pairing based lust, with black man not caring about the result of their tryst. Just as pathetic as Black Men Vent and the rest of them.


  60. The biggest enemy of black women and their happiness is not white racism, as many suppose, but black men. It is black men who beat them, leave them, fail to protect them and defend them, who tear them down in public and in private with a strain of racist misogyny unseen in any other race of man. Think the Swedish racist cake.

    this is true to a point.but not every black men do this. you can’t put white men on a petalstole because they have done the very samething to black women.


  61. medium said:
    “The biggest enemy of black women and their happiness is not white racism, as many suppose, but black men.”

    Vin says:
    Nope. Black american men hardly control anything. Black american women are their own worst enemies.

    medium said:
    “It is black men who beat them, leave them, fail to protect them and defend them, who tear them down in public and in private with a strain of racist misogyny unseen in any other race of man.”

    Vin says:
    Please stop. Are you trying to kill me with laughter. You seriously need to get out a lot more. There are plenty of non black men that have done exactly the same thing to their own women!
    Grow up!


  62. @Menelik Charles– you said:

    Miss Jenkins,

    I have absolutely no stake in mixed relationships

    You obviously do have a stake. As someone said, you can be counted on to come out of the woodwork whenever bw&wm pairings are discussed. You might as well be honest about it.

    @Vindicator–you said:

    Nope. Black american men hardly control anything.

    Then why would women want men who hardly control anything. Just like Black American men want women who they think are pretty, sexy, and feminine, well, women want men who have control.


  63. About BWE, from what I’ve read, they say that Black American women should make the best love choices for themselves, just like Black American men do. That’s just a part of being empowered, but they talk a lot about many other parts of women being empowered too.

    I know from experience that when a Black woman chooses a man who happens to be white, so many Black American men feel slighted and think that it’s their business. It’s not. It’s not the BWE women’s business who Black men want to be with either. It’s strange that Black American men and women seem to think they are joined at the hip.


  64. I see our resident delusionist Jorbia is back. No doubt she’ll try to convince us and many other ignorant black american women that white men “love” black women and they can always be counted on to “save” ‘em.
    “Save me white man, save me from the evil “negro” american man” say the Cult of the BWE.
    Truly pathetic.

    Jorbia said to Menelik Charles:
    “You obviously do have a stake. As someone said, you can be counted on to come out of the woodwork whenever bw&wm pairings are discussed. You might as well be honest about it.”

    Vin says:
    So says the BWE woman that was ranting and raving on the Black Men White Women post on Abagond’s blog. BWE, synonomous with the term hypocrite.

    Jorbia said:
    “Then why would women want men who hardly control anything. Just like Black American men want women who they think are pretty, sexy, and feminine, well, women want men who have control.”

    Ask them that. While you’re at it, you should ask white american men why are they taking so long to marry black american women. Btw girlfriends and jump offs don’t count.
    No doubt in the BWE “mind” being a white man’s jump off is better than being a black man’s wife.


  65. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 15:15:54 Menelik Charles

    @ Jorbia,

    dont make up lies about me and then tell me to be honest! You know it pains me to say this but I am a man and you are a woman. Read between the lines, make the usual assumptions and that will tell its own story!

    I defend the integrity of Black men if it is being undermined or attacked. If you or any Black women desire to date out you wont believe the tremendous encouragement you’d get to do so from the likes of me!

    I see the exiting (you hardly leaving because, I mean, where’s the demand, and whose holding you back?) of folks like you as merely ‘house clearing’. Problem is, you just wont leave quietly!

    So damned feminine, as usual, lol


  66. “I think the real, underlying, problem for a race of defemininised, masculized, women is that America’s true ‘Romeo and Juliet’ coupling are the Black man and white women. Historically (and for very good damned reasons) it was Black women and white men who were determined to keep them apart. It was their coupling which was daring, dangerous, and against the morality of the day.,

    No one could prevent unions between white men (oppressors, enslavers and rapists) and Black females (oppressed, enslaved, raped), and Black men risked their lives and those of their families by attempting to do so.

    There is nothing romantic or daring about the white male Black female coupling so BWE nuts demonize Black men and whitewash the image of white males so as to surround such unions with daring (as though Black men could prevent the loudest, angriest, least lady-like females from doing what the hell they like, and the most powerful race of men as well lol).

    Thing is, some, or many, Black females are so masculine, so angry, they see most non-assertive, quiet, white males, as virtual females.

    Man, that reality’s enough to make any women angry lol.”

    This is a grossly inaccurate account of racial and sexual politics in the history of The US. The added barbs are meant to defame and you being a black man doesn’t make them any less racist.


  67. Oh Lord, now that the usual suspects are back (Menelik Charles, Jorbia)
    let the fun and fireworks begin :-)


  68. @Linda

    I’m looking for the “Dis Gon Be Good” gif right now.


  69. @Jorbia

    They don’t control anything because there hasn’t been an opportunity to do so at least at the same extent of white men. That was a cheap shot on your part.


  70. @Vindicator–

    I see our resident delusionist Jorbia is back. No doubt she’ll try to convince us and many other ignorant black american women that white men “love” black women and they can always be counted on to “save” ‘em.

    Name-calling? How original.

    I notice how you had to stick in the words like “always” and “save.” That’s a straw man tactic.

    To use your words:

    No doubt, you’ll “try to to convince us and many other ignorant black american women that black men “love” black women and they can always be counted on to “save” ‘em.”

    I’m being honest. I do have a stake in this because I’m a Black woman and I am empowered. I can choose the man I want to be with and I don’t mince words about it. Menelik pretends that he doesn’t have a stake in the discussion. He just drops in to offend Black women. I have a stake in that too and that’s why I called him on his pretense.

    No doubt in the BWE “mind” being a white man’s jump off is better than being a black man’s wife.

    I can’t speak for what’s in the mind of the BWE.You can’t either. You’re projecting what’s in their minds to suit your argument. So you see Black men standing in line to “wife” Black women? Probably some Black women here would want to know where that line is.


  71. @Menelik Charles–

    I defend the integrity of Black men if it is being undermined or attacked.

    And I defend my integrity as a Black woman. Black American women have seen that (in general) Black American men don’t defend us. You constantly talk about how “masculinized” or “defeminized” Black women are. In other words, if a Black woman does not stay “quiet” while she’s being attacked by a Black man, you consider her unfeminine.

    If you or any Black women desire to date out you wont believe the tremendous encouragement you’d get to do so from the likes of me!

    I don’t know why you think you have the power to give a Black woman permission to date out. If I meet a Black woman who needs your permission to date out, I’ll refer her to you.


  72. @Warren AZ–

    They don’t control anything because there hasn’t been an opportunity to do so at least at the same extent of white men. That was a cheap shot on your part.

    I’m not the one who first stated that in this thread. It was Vindicator. It was also Menelik who stated above that White men are the “most powerful race of men.”

    But as women, let’s be honest. (In general) women are much more attracted to men who do control something vital or have power. Why do so many Black American women mince words about that? Black American men don’t mince words about the kind of women they think are pretty, feminine, or wife material.


  73. I think we should all embrace individuality and stop worrying about others motives when it comes to who they date. I don’t care if a black women dates a white man bc she hates her race, wants lighter children, genuinely loves the person she is with, or believes he is an overall better mate. At the end of the day it’s nobody’s business who another person wants to be with.


  74. Jorbia said:
    “To use your words:

    No doubt, you’ll “try to to convince us and many other ignorant black american women that black men “love” black women and they can always be counted on to “save” ‘em.”

    Vin says:
    According to the U.S. Census, they do love em. 87% of Married black men are married to black women. Those are the statistics.

    Jorbia said:
    “I’m being honest. I do have a stake in this because I’m a Black woman and I am empowered. I can choose the man I want to be with and I don’t mince words about it. Menelik pretends that he doesn’t have a stake in the discussion. He just drops in to offend Black women. I have a stake in that too and that’s why I called him on his pretense.”

    Vin says:
    BWE and honesty seldom go together. We’ll come back to this later.

    Jorbia said:
    “I can’t speak for what’s in the mind of the BWE.You can’t either. You’re projecting what’s in their minds to suit your argument.”

    Vin says:
    When the BWE constantly say that black men are DBR in their terms. When they are linking black women dating white men as “empowerment” and constantly go on how they hate seeing black men with non black women and saying that it’s “abandonment.” I’m no “projecting” anything. The BWE blogs constantly say those things. Me and many other people on this site speaking on this post have noticed this as well.
    If you can honestly tell me that BWE blogs don’t call black men DBR or they don’t worship white men or they can’t stand black men dating non black women and light skinned black women, then you Jorbia, deserve the name that I called you.

    Jorbia said:
    “So you see Black men standing in line to “wife” Black women? Probably some Black women here would want to know where that line is.”

    Vin says:
    I don’t see it because I live in England. However as I said before. 87% of married black men are married to black women according to the U.S. Census. Now tell me many white men are married to black women.

    Oh that’s right:
    “only one in 400 of those who are married. A quarter of 1%. Not all that promising.” says Abagond who no doubt got it from the U.S. Census.

    Tut tut. Anything else…………… wait forget it, I really don’t care for your deluded BWE ish. The BWE is nothing more than a deluded, race based, misandrist feminist cult. I actually feel sorry for black women that want to expand their dating options because the BWE give black women a bad name. Now can any BWE woman kindly as the east london expression goes. DO ONE!


  75. @Cynic–

    I think we should all embrace individuality and stop worrying about others motives when it comes to who they date. I don’t care if a black women dates a white man bc she hates her race, wants lighter children, genuinely loves the person she is with, or believes he is an overall better mate. At the end of the day it’s nobody’s business who another person wants to be with.

    That’s exactly how I feel too, and I’ve said that here. It’s interesting that from what I’ve read, BWE encourages Black women to choose what’s best for them in all areas of life, whether in finance, family, health, travel, spirituality, education, and so on. But most of the comments here about BWE pertain to Black women choosing to be with White men. Why does that one aspect of BWE become the be-all and end-all of such a comprehensive message that apparently does help some Black American women?

    That’s why I say that it’s pretense that some people are saying they don’t care who Black women choose to love.


  76. The Cynic said:
    I think we should all embrace individuality and stop worrying about others motives when it comes to who they date. I don’t care if a black women dates a white man bc she hates her race, wants lighter children, genuinely loves the person she is with, or believes he is an overall better mate. At the end of the day it’s nobody’s business who another person wants to be with.

    Vin says:
    I agree wholeheartedly……….. However the BWE don’t do that with black men. Like it or lump it that ish needs to be called out.


  77. @Jorbia

    I’m not validated by what black men, as a collective, find attractive. Assume that applies that to other men in the context of race. I like being a black woman and nothing Menelik or Tyrone or that Captain (?) Pete is going to change that.

    I talked about this before, Black women lean on Black Men to validate their beauty too much. We’re the only “race” of women who look that way we do and we’re still waiting for society and an unverified percentage of black men to like it? We have a lot of work to I see.

    PS to anyone reading this: Those chevrons look like an enlisted rank not a commissioned one but I could be wrong.


  78. *”….nothing Menelik, Tyrone, or Captain Pete SAY is going to change that.”


  79. @Jorbia

    One more thing. Every time a black woman and her daughter leaves not house not looking to capture what is natural to her and present it in its best possible fashion she is undermining the beauty of black women as well. I little tweak here and there for proportion or manageability is one thing but an elimination and replacement is another.


  80. @ Vindicator–

    Vin says:
    According to the U.S. Census, they do love em. 87% of Married black men are married to black women. Those are the statistics.

    That sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that most Black American men are not married at all to anyone.

    According to research by the highly reputable Pew Research Center, 25% of married Black American men married women who were not Black in 2008. You can look that up. Pew does its research constantly. They’re not like the Census that puts out numbers every 10 years.

    When the BWE constantly say that black men are DBR in their terms.

    If it’s “in their terms,” I would chalk that up to what some of them have gone through. Why are they so interesting to you? You sound like a scholar on the BWE. How many of them are in the group?

    When they are linking black women dating white men as “empowerment”

    It is empowering and liberating when a woman can choose who she wants to lay down with or love without any thought about who else might not like it. I first noticed that when I came here to go to college, some Black American women didn’t feel like they “should” go out with White men. They thought it was wrong.

    and constantly go on how they hate seeing black men with non black women and saying that it’s “abandonment.” I’m no “projecting” anything. The BWE blogs constantly say those things. Me and many other people on this site speaking on this post have noticed this as well.

    I agree with you about this. That is ridiculous but that’s why I said some Black American men and women think they are joined at the hip? I’ve gotten the same type of comments from some Black American men when they see me out with a White man. They say things like “We’re not good enough for you?”

    If you can honestly tell me that BWE blogs don’t call black men DBR or they don’t worship white men or they can’t stand black men dating non black women and light skinned black women,

    Some Black American men and women have had bad experiences with each other and there are Black men too who constantly disrespect and call Black women names too. It is terrible. I wonder why they’re so interested in each other.

    But “Worship”? That’s a stretch. If a Black woman “prefers” White men or finds the White men she meets to be more appealing (generally) because of how they behave, she ought to be able to say it without feeling she’s doing something wrong. Many Black men even here at this site constantly say they prefer the features and behavior of women who are not Black or not as Black. Well, the same goes for Black women.


  81. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 17:55:32 Menelik Charles

    Menelik said:

    If you or any Black women desire to date out you wont believe the tremendous encouragement you’d get to do so from the likes of me!

    Jorbia replied:

    “I don’t know why you think you have the power to give a Black woman permission to date out. If I meet a Black woman who needs your permission to date out, I’ll refer her to you”.

    Menelik says:

    you see how she twisted my words into some patriarchal command? My wish simply is for people like her to go and live among the very men who’ve made African-American women’s history what it is (almost horrific beyond words) and who seek out the tiny number of Asian females for marriage over the millions of Black women (most who dont want them anyway). That ought to do wonders for their self-esteem lol

    ‘Black’ women like Jorbia are not wanted by any Black who view a woman’s value beyond her vagina.


  82. @Warren AZ–

    I’m not validated by what black men, as a collective, find attractive. Assume that applies that to other men in the context of race

    I think that men and women do want to appear appealing to each other. I want to appeal to the type of men I like. So, if I wear a fragrance and it appeals a lot to the type of men I like, I’m much more likely to wear that fragrance.


  83. @Menelik–

    My wish simply is for people like her to go and live among the very men who’ve made African-American women’s history what it is (almost horrific beyond words)

    Judging from the way you talk about Whites, they’ve made the history of Black men like you “horrific beyond words,” yet you still managed to choose the lovely Romeo and Juliet model to symbolize the bm&ww relationship. Since you want to dig up history, it was White women who got a lot of Black American men hanged once upon a time, yet so many Black American men consider it a “trophy” or an “achievement” these days to get a White woman. This is because things have changed. Do you denounce those relationships?

    and who seek out the tiny number of Asian females for marriage over the millions of Black women

    That number increases everyday though. That bothers you, doesn’t it? Change happens bit by bit. My mom grew up in America. She said that White men didn’t even used to bother with Asian women at all. Now, things have changed. Things are changing now for Black women.

    (most who dont want them anyway)

    You’re hoping that Black Women don’t want White men. Hold that thought.


  84. @Jorbia

    I totally didn’t address the full post. That was my bad and yes they did mention it first. I also have to concede that maybe the Black Women on BWE are being held to a different standard than the Black Men at BWV spaces like it. This is based on limited exposure to both and I plan on keeping it that way.


  85. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 18:32:45 Melissa Jenkins

    I have absolutely no stake in mixed relationships (you do, I take) I am merely stating what the symbolism of various mix-race pairings represents. Reality was not at all the issue.

    What you stated came from the heart and it is exactly how you feel but fortunately there are beautiful, femine black women everywhere and there is no denying that.

    I I had a white coworker tell me that a lot of white women worry about if black men can be as responsible as white men as husbands and fathers but they take the chance anyway. She said that white women notice what goes on in the black community. Also she said that there is a lot more strife between black men and white women that we would ever know but white women arent going to publicly state that the way black women do. She thinks that black women are too outspoken about problems in the black community with our men. She said that things arent as perfect between bm/ww as they try to present it to be.

    She is attracted to black men but cant get past all of the fatherless kids of black men with black and white women.


  86. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 18:36:39 Menelik Charles

    Jorbia,

    I wished Black women like you hated Black men so much they’d leave us alone!!!!!! I would sell my own mother if people like you would p*ss off to Alaska and populate the place with the bi-racial girls ‘n’ boys you so obviously desire and envy!

    You’re the bane in the lives of Black men! If you effed off and bred spawn with Adolf Hitler it would be a cause for celebration as well as laughter! Just take ya freaking daddy issues some place else, why dont ya? You radiate nothing but evil and disharmony…a reflection, no less, than what exists in your deeply disturbed ‘n’ malevolent soul!

    Get a white boy, woman, and get a a life while you’re at it!


  87. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 18:39:44 Menelik Charles

    Miss Jenkins,

    you do a nice line in passive aggression, dontcha? Using the alleged concerns of white women as a stick with which to beat Black men.

    Brilliant!


  88. siditty has NEVER made a blog post about how black men were better than white men, i know abagond used to read siddity back when i lurked on this blog, sometimes she came and commented on his blog and vice versa. so i KNOW she doesn’t have a problem with black men.

    i don’t agree with excluding your own race when it comes to romantic relationships, i mean it makes me wonder WHY or what purpose that serves… but she doesn’t talk badly about black men at all and dare i say, i can’t really say anything to the rare black women who do date wm exclusively because WAAAY more black men date non-bw exclusively, so that would make me look like a fool. both groups need to get their acts together when it comes to that, but honestly black men do seem to do it more.

    i mean am I really obligated to be a crusader and go and try to talk black women who date non-bm exclusively out of their decision?…why SHOULD I do that when there are way more black men who do the very same thing. no, i’m not doing it anymore even if i don’t agree with it, i’m not breaking my neck because things are not equal it’s a double standard…


  89. first sentence was meant to say:

    “siditty has never made a post where she said white men were BETTER than black men,” but it’s also true that she hasn’t done what i originally said either.


  90. Jorbia said:
    “That sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that most Black American men are not married at all to anyone.”

    Vin says:
    Same with most demographics in general. In fact marriage rates have fallen across the whole of the USA.

    Jorbia said:
    “According to research by the highly reputable Pew Research Center, 25% of married Black American men married women who were not Black in 2008. You can look that up. Pew does its research constantly. They’re not like the Census that puts out numbers every 10 years.”

    Vin says:
    What are the latest marriage stats by the Pew Research Center right now? Also the U.S. Census stats are recent. 25% percent married black men are married are married non black women. What about the rest? ;)

    Jorbia said:
    It is empowering and liberating when a woman can choose who she wants to lay down with or love without any thought about who else might not like it. I first noticed that when I came here to go to college, some Black American women didn’t feel like they “should” go out with White men. They thought it was wrong.

    Vin says:
    No, it’s not. It’s just normal, everyday bullish.

    Jorbia said:
    “Some Black American men and women have had bad experiences with each other and there are Black men too who constantly disrespect and call Black women names too. It is terrible. I wonder why they’re so interested in each other.”

    Vin says:
    So f***ing what? They need to grow a pair and f***ing move on.

    Jorbia said:
    “But “Worship”? That’s a stretch.”

    Vin says:
    Nope. It’s the truth. They’ll even go so far as to praise a former white supremacist for dating a black woman.

    Jorbia said:
    “If a Black woman “prefers” White men or finds the White men she meets to be more appealing (generally) because of how they behave, she ought to be able to say it without feeling she’s doing something wrong.”

    Vin says:
    I agree. Just stop throwing black men under the bus.

    Jorbia said:
    “Many Black men even here at this site constantly say they prefer the features and behavior of women who are not Black or not as Black”

    Vin says:
    Proof please. Either way I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again. Nobody cares about other people’s romantic preferences. What we care about when it comes to the BWE is the outright lies, hypocracy and dishonesty of the movement.
    You are trying to defend the indefensible.


  91. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 19:23:15 Menelik Charles

    @ Vindicator,

    you do realize that Jorbia ‘n’ co actually prefer Black men, right? They are the ones who feel Black men are rejecting them. Read her words again, Bro:

    “many Black men even here at this site constantly say they prefer the features and behavior of women who are not Black or not as Black…and according to research by the highly reputable Pew Research Center, 25% of married Black American men married women who were not Black in 2008. You can look that up. Pew does its research constantly”.

    You see what her underlying concern is? That Black men are rejecting Black women en mass in real life! But in fantasy she can flip the script and make it seem there’s some invisible Black patriarchal force preventing Black women from fleeing en mass to white hunks lol

    No Black man in history in the US has been able to prevent white males from violating our female folk. This is fact. White men are free to take what they desire. They did. Fact.

    They desire to marry and date white women 1st (quite naturally) Asian women 2nd, Latin women 3rd, ‘other’ women 4th and Black women 5th. Some Black women feel like leftovers…from Black men. They have to settle for white men who are prepared to settle for them.

    Its a nightmare as Mrs Karizin (is that her name?) realizes on a day-to-day basis. This is why she set up a blog…to attract the misery in which she lives because misery, as they say, loves company!


  92. @ Vindicator–

    Same with most demographics in general. In fact marriage rates have fallen across the whole of the USA.

    All groups of people are not in the same position to start with. Just because other groups do something doesn’t make it feasible for Black Americans to do it. Why don’t Blacks copy the positive things that Whites and other groups do? Blacks keep saying they want to build themselves up. Marriage is great for wealth accumulation and maintenance. It was the main way that whites accumulated and keep wealth.

    25% percent married black men are married are married non black women. What about the rest?

    I was pointing out the pattern here. Don’t believe my stats if you choose. But this would mean that 75% of Black men who married in 2008 married Black women. Keep in mind that the majority of Black American men are not married to anyone and obviously don’t want to marry. So this is not a big number to start with. Yet you made a comment implying that Black women are pushing Black men who want to marry them aside to get with a White man who only wants a jump-off. The reality is that there is a huge percentage of Black men who keep Black American women in the “jump-off” category, more than White men could ever dream of doing. I’d bet you know that. The same thing is probably going on where you are.

    I’m not going to address every little snip anyone wants to to take at the BWE. From what I’ve seen, they have a comprehensive message. Each of those websites is different. Some of them don’t even take comments. I don’t know which one you’re pulling from. Instead of only focusing on the one part about Black women who prefer be with White men that so many are focused on in this thread, evaluate the whole message. I’ve seen where, there are Black women with Black men who say they learn from those sites.


  93. @Menelik Charles–

    you do realize that Jorbia ‘n’ co actually prefer Black men, right?

    I know you need to believe that Black women prefer Black men. I will help to put your mind at ease. Some Black women do prefer Black men and some prefer White men and others. Some Black women like men despite their complexion because the man’s complexion is not important. They look most at a man’s behavior. All of these are natural.

    You claim you don’t have a stake in this discussion but you can’t leave it alone. I’ve been honest. I do have a stake in it and that’s why I’m posting.

    If you really don’t care about what the BWE do, why do you keep reading what they say? You even know their names? That just goes to show how important those women are to you. Stop the pretense.


  94. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 20:23:43 Menelik Charles

    There is a huge difference between “some” and many lol Most Black men date Black women; most Black men who marry do so with Black women; most Black men prefer Black women.

    Fact.

    Most Black women prefer Black men. Most Black women do NOT prefer white men.

    Fact.

    Doubtless as a Black woman who unwittingly promotes the view Black men are ‘abandoning’ Black women en mass for non-Black women, this pains you because it allegedly places Black men in a decision-making position.

    The double dread of both white men and Black women is that they will be ‘abandoned’ by the opposite sex of their own race for each other. Weird, isnt it, how Black men are the only race of men on the planet who have a higher sexual and romantic currency than their own women!

    Fact.

    That must really hurt! Not least because it plays into the notion that MOST African-American women are deeply unfeminine and unworthy of being wifed up.

    Hold that thought, ‘sister’!


  95. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 20:58:14 Menelik Charles

    Jorbia said:

    If you really don’t care about what the BWE do, why do you keep reading what they say? You even know their names? That just goes to show how important those women are to you. Stop the pretense.

    Menelik replies:

    if the BWE merchants dont care much for Black men are are primarily concerned with themselves and white males, why do they keep attacking (mentioning) Black males? That just goes to show how obsessed they are with Black men. Stop the pretense.

    You dont mention us in any way which maligns us and we would have no basis on which to defend our integrity.


  96. @Menelik Charles–

    You have proved my point.You’re now being honest. You do have a stake in this discussion because to you, the only part of the BWE’s comprehensive message that you can focus on is Black women with White men.

    Most Black women do NOT prefer white men.

    You don’t know that because most Black women would never tell a Black American man that they prefer White men. So, without any research to back it up, I’ll bet that just saying that makes you feel so much better.

    Doubtless as a Black woman who unwittingly promotes the view Black men are ‘abandoning’ Black women en mass for non-Black women, this pains you because it allegedly places Black men in a decision-making position.

    You’re projecting your thoughts on me. These are your thoughts only, not mine.

    The double dread of both white men and Black women is that they will be ‘abandoned’ by the opposite sex of their own race for each other. Weird, isnt it, how Black men are the only race of men on the planet who have a higher sexual and romantic currency than their own women!

    You are so predictable, but what took you so long?. I knew that the “super-stud Black man card” would be played soon. Have you shown your appreciation lately to White men for giving Black men the super stud label? The problem with that is that you can’t use that label to control anything or produce food, clothing, or shelter for anyone or protect yourself. White men have the money, power, and the control and gave Black men a super-stud label. You sound happy about that.

    That must really hurt!

    Doesn’t hurt a woman like me because Black men have not made me believe that I don’t have plenty of sexual and romantic currency. But it must hurt a Black man like you that the super stud label that the White man gave you is the only thing you have. Any discussion like this with a Black man always leads to him whipping out his super stud label. I am not impressed.

    Not least because it plays into the notion that MOST African-American women are deeply unfeminine and unworthy of being wifed up.

    Obviously you’re not a man who is husband material and the last stats I saw showed that the failure rate of Black man marriages to any kind of woman is the highest failure rate of all.

    The BWE has a comprehensive message. I’ve read more of it today. If you read it, you might learn something.


  97. @Menelik–

    if the BWE merchants dont care much for Black men are are primarily concerned with themselves and white males, why do they keep attacking (mentioning) Black males? That just goes to show how obsessed they are with Black men.

    Women talk about their relationships to other women. That’s just what women do. You will never be able to stop that. All women do that. I would guess that the BWE women talk about Black men a lot because most of their experiences with men have been with mostly Black men. You can’t stop anyone from talking about their experiences and it just so happens that these women are online talking. Offline, they’re also talking about their relationships but you’re not aware of it. You need to stop reading what they say.

    You dont mention us in any way which maligns us and we would have no basis on which to defend our integrity.

    But if their relationships with Black men have maligned them, they are going to talk about that.The only way that will change is if they all stop having anything to do with Black men or if they have only or mainly positive dealings with Black men.


  98. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 22:01:57 Menelik Charles

    Jorbia,

    my point is that people like you live whatever life you’re forced to accept without blaming others for whatever you do, or whoever you date. No man of any race capable of picking up your malevolent sentiments would treat you as anything other than a jump off let alone date or marry you!

    I’d imagine being held in your arms is akin to being trapped between the teeth of a hungry crocodile!

    Woman up or pack up ‘n’ shut up!


  99. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 22:02:35 Menelik Charles

    Matriarchs make me sick!


  100. @Menelik–

    I’d imagine being held in your arms is akin to being trapped between the teeth of a hungry crocodile!

    You’re funny! But didn’t you know that that crocodile teeth are quite stimulating and very delectable?

    Good luck! I wish you the peace and more love than you can handle.


  101. @satanforce: It’s good for people to be good influences, but what I meant is that you shouldn’t feel the burden of other people’s lives that are outside of your influence. You don’t have to let “the state of the black community” affect the way you live your life, and feel about yourself. And with the second thing you said, I agree with you. But that’s what separates the racists who date outside of their race from the people who date outside of their race with good intentions. Likewise, it also separates the racists who only want to date inside their race from the people who only happen to date inside their race, who have good intentions. The difference being that one side sees beyond race (regardless of whether they always happen to date outside of their race or not), and the other doesn’t (regardless of whether they always happen to date outside of their race or not). And no, I’ve never been to that site. Maybe I need to change my name here, as it’s so general (it’s not the first time someone has thought I was someone else), but I’ve gone as Dee too long to stop now. Again, I only use the name Dee here!

    @Menelik Charles: wow, you really live in your own little world. I’m not even going to start, you’re already too far beyond repair

    @brothawolf: You were refering to white people as oppressors, and I took what you said as being more relative to their ancestors, many of whom oppressed black people, here in America. So I was merely saying that even if someone’s ancestors were oppressors, as long as they weren’t personally being oppresive, it doesn’t matter, just as it doesn’t matter if someone has slave descendants. Just because someone is white doesn’t necessarily mean they’re personally responsible for institutional racism. Don’t get me wrong, it could, but it’s not automatic. And you’re not living in the real world if you think the majority of non-white people would rather be judged by their ethnicity and ancestry, things out of their control, than who they actually are as indiviudals. Are you serious? Why should I care that a significant percentage of white people judged others for centuries? Two wrongs don’t make a right. If you resort to doing the same bad thing, you’re no better than them. We’re supposed to learn from history, not repeat it. And you did refer to white people as oppressors, and if not, who were you referring to when you said “To me this is a sick case of trying to get the oppressor to love us, and to do that we must discard our people.” I’m not pulling straws. I’m just elaborating from what you’ve said. And the American dream is easier nowadays for minorities than it ever was (ok, easier a couple years ago, when the economy wasn’t as bad, but you get the idea. it’s easier now than in like, the 1960s). I know it’s possible because there are people that have reached it. I don’t understand why you’re being so pessimistic. Pessimism gets people nowhere. People who made the American dream for themselves often had to overcome many obstacles and challenges, and while to a degree minorities have more challenges to overcome, they can still do it. My parents came to America and made the American dream for themselves. Are you saying that they should have just been “realistic” and just settled for living in Africa, as it was the easiest route to take? I think you’re the one who needs to wake up


  102. on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 23:12:17 Menelik Charles

    Dee,

    your use of BWE phraseology to describe me is enough to portray your underlying sentiments! Like I said above, I would sell my own mother if chicks like you would date out!

    My contempt for people like you knows no bounds: you’re like a cross between a ghettogagger and a holocaust denier!


  103. jorbia and Menelik sitting in a tree… (you know how the rest goes.)


  104. People are backing each other into a corner and leaving no room to maneuver at all…

    People should be able to date who ever they want and not have to worry about psycho analisys put downs…men and women of all colors

    Can we all get along ?


  105. “Very few white men marry black women – only one in 400 of those who are married. A quarter of 1%. Not all that promising.”
    Does the BWE movement only promote dating white men? I always assumed it promoted marriage and relationships between black women and all non-black men. Not just white.

    I don’t agree with the degradation of black men, but I can definitely see where these women frustration stems from. There is a lack of good men in the black American community.


  106. @B.R.
    People should be able to date who ever they want and not have to worry about psycho analisys put downs…men and women of all colors

    Thank You!!! 100% Co-sign


  107. I have not seen in real life black men running past black women or vice versa.

    Mind you I have lived in Minnesota(one of the whitest states), and other parts of the world.


  108. Wow, at how quickly this thread turned to sh*t.


  109. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 07:04:52 Menelik Charles

    @ GJ

    you think the women who post on BWE blogs are good women? Weird how there’s always a lack of good Black men but an extraordinary abundance of good Black women, isnt it?

    Thats it then, I guess: both white men (Black men’s best friends ever) and Black women (Black men’s greatest supporters ever) are agreed: most Black men are not good human beings but most white men, and Black women, we are to assume, are.

    When will Black men realize that the BWE fruit bats do not seek romantic unions with white men but racial alliances against Black men?

    Seriously, if those Nazi nuts on Stormfront weren’t so repulsed by Black women’s physical and facial appearance, they and BWE merchants would be a match made in heaven!


  110. I have a question.

    I don’t know if anyone brought it up. If they did, I apologize for not reading it. But my thing is why is BWE about relationships and nothing else, or so it seems? Isn’t empowerment more than just finding a good man or woman? Why is – at least – some of the BWE movement more focused on finding external love as opposed to internal love?


  111. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 08:50:27 Menelik Charles

    Empowerment with white men=a racial alliance against black men! This has nothing to do with romance or humanism or ones opening options! Its about racially harassing Black men and demonizing them because these women actually perceive themselves as a sub-female species of the human race!

    Their collective ego ideal is to be white!

    white men’s collective ego ideal is to be Black. Black women sense this. They are attached to Black males racially and heterosexually. They see why white men feel as they do towards Black men and why they will stop at nothing to remove them from this planet!

    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    But if one white man would marry ‘up’ (i.e. form a racial alliance with) one of these Black women, he will be assured that she will do everything to sure up his ego, as long is he picks her over the equally hated and envied white female!

    You see romance in any of this ish, brothawolf?


  112. dee,

    I will not respond here because it has nothing to do with the topic. I will paste it in the open thread. See you there.


  113. Menelik,

    No, and that’s the point. It’s always about “finding love” particularly with white men. I haven’t read or heard anything from certain posers about a love for self let alone a love for the black community.


  114. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 09:17:31 Menelik Charles

    @ brothawolf,

    then read between the lines! No compassion towards the Black community and family (both of which they run as a virtual matriarchy…and run into the ground) and no affirmation of themselves as Black women.

    The only “love” they seek has nothing whatsoever to do with the concept! Its about a racial alliance in which white men are silent partners (see Evia and her henpecked hubby).


  115. Hi everyone,

    I am a white man. My wife is black and we have one child.

    I have been made aware of BWE blogs and I find them disturbing. My wife never puts down black men. Her father and brothers-in-law are great African men. She and I are very proud of both our families and where we come from.

    I am not anyone’s saviour. I dont pretend to be better than other men. I just love my wife and my family, regardless of the colour of their skin.


  116. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 09:47:13 Menelik Charles

    @ Xeelee,

    well, thank you for standing up for what all inter-racial marriages (and, indeed, all marriages) should be about: love and mutual respect. Your sentiments, and indeed, your union, would not be welcomed on BWE blogs because they represent sentiments contrary to their own.

    Good on ya, pal!

    BTW white men are not perceived as “saviors” by these folk but as potential racial allies against Black men (in which white men are silent obedient partners).


  117. Menelik,

    I wasn’t trying to sound naive. I was just making an observation. I agree with you and I thank you for elaborating on what I was trying to try.


  118. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 10:03:50 Menelik Charles

    No Bro, and I wasnt treating you as naive, far from it. I was seeing past you to others who may happen upon this blog and may not understand the nuanced nature of some of the issues.

    Peace.


  119. @brothawolf–

    I have a question.

    I don’t know if anyone brought it up. If they did, I apologize for not reading it. But my thing is why is BWE about relationships and nothing else, or so it seems? Isn’t empowerment more than just finding a good man or woman? Why is – at least – some of the BWE movement more focused on finding external love as opposed to internal love?

    I spent most of last night reading through those BWE sites. There is a lot of material on the BWE sites there on Black women loving themselves, networking, business, health, hair care, safety, finance, travel, spirituality, nutrition, obesity, politics, and so on. I could put over 300 links here to discussions about all of those topics on those sites but I won’t.

    For some reason, Abagond chose to focus his article mainly on the interracial relationship aspect of BWE.


  120. @Menelik–

    well, thank you for standing up for what all inter-racial marriages (and, indeed, all marriages) should be about: love and mutual respect. Your sentiments, and indeed, your union, would not be welcomed on BWE blogs because they represent sentiments contrary to their own.

    Good on ya, pal!

    But aren’t you the same Black man who wrote on here that any time a White man puts his penis inside a Black woman, he is committing Black genocide? I read where you said that a few times. Be honest. Don’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

    It is your hate that would not be welcomed on the BWE blogs.

    BTW white men are not perceived as “saviors” by these folk but as potential racial allies against Black men (in which white men are silent obedient partners).

    This is pure paranoia. So you’re saying that those BWE Black women marry white men so that they can plot against Black men? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

    And for somebody who said he has no stake in this discussion, you are certainly all over this.


  121. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 11:03:07 Menelik Charles

    Listen, you nutter, Black women going around saying Black men as a group are their enemies and that white men (whose media, for example, messes up the image of Black women and places bi-racial women above them) are their natural allies (only if paired in a racial alliance against Black men they are!) are the ones who are paranoid!

    Stop projecting their (and your) filthy nonsense onto me! And look,I say again: I will sell my mother if you and your kind would date out and die off! I would even sell myself into slavery!!!! Just go away and leave Black men alone!!! Marry a damn donkey for all I freakin care!!!


  122. Menelik, would you cite a link from any of those sites where the blog owner says: “white men are their natural allies only if paired in a racial alliance against Black men.” Other than that, you are projecting and making this up. That is paranoia.

    And you need to stop with the shrieking. That doesn’t make you appealing as a man.


  123. deedee, I’m afraid that your individualist argument is exactly what links BMV and BWE philosophy. Yes, you should all work hard, save your money, dress properly and eat your vegetables, but when its time to buy your nice houses, the subprime mortgage man doesn’t care about your morals, or that you don’t use ebonics, or that you don’t sag your pants or that you’re about to get your piece of the American dream. He’s just going to send your name up to the bank which will securitize you and put you in the same tranche with all the poor people, single mothers, immigrants and other dumb fu(k underclass who deserve to get their “faces ripped off” for wanting better for themselves.

    If black people had , say, banded together and created Credit Unions/Housing Societies, and given priority to black construction workers, I doubt that we would have had what geographer David Harvey called a “Financial Katrina”, which saw the wiping out of hundreds of billions of dollars in African-American (middle-class)wealth. But this, and the type of collective and social action I just gave an example of, is exactly what BMV/BWE/bitchism stand against. They instead believe that personal action is the solution to all problems. Every man for himself, by himself. So when your personal action fails, and you do not achieve what the Consumer Culture tells you should achieve, then its all your fault. Not the fault of a legal-industrial complex that incarcerates black men at 5x greater rate, (black men commit 12% of drug crime but make up 60% of arrests), or of redlining, or of job discrimination, or of dysfunctional schools, or of the loss manufacturing jobs, or of welfare “reform”, or of predatory lenders. Its all your fault for being a “thug”, or a “simp”, or “DBR”. Anyone else would realise that there is a system in place to keep poor people poor and divided against each other. But not the BWE/BMV.

    BWE/BMV style bitchism maintains that all you need do is marry a non-Western/non-black spouse, be a good little conservative, and nod your head when the white people speak. Changing society is for losers, instead set up a fancy looking website and count your clicks! I see this as cynicism resulting from the various failures of the Civil Rights and Black Power movements, especially their failures in the realms of class issues and gender issues. But that is still no excuse for their moral failings. To make up a therapeutic myth about masculine women and uncaring men is one thing, but to then call them DBRs and ankles is morally contemptible and beneath contempt. That you could reduce a human being to the level of a broken machine, or a body part is enough to want to break Godwin’s Law – but I won’t do that here, except to say that at least they are too banal to be truly evil.

    One could look at events as DR. King’s march on Washington and see it as mere sound and fury, a failure. But that would be missing the point.. Those marches (as the Occupy movement fails to realize) were the end result of co-ordinated action by a relatively small number of persons, working in close proximity to each other. The BWE/BMV believe that they should retreat into the arms of a white spouse and live a nice, conservative lifestyle or call yourself a “nerd” and get a CCIE or RHCE so they can look down on and wag their fingers at other blacks like Bill Cosby and Obama. They would do well to remember that they are still black, and no amount of transforming yourself can change that


  124. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 12:45:33 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik:
    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    In America, perhaps,, that would be the asserted “perception” but globally? Black women’s “Carte blanche” is very high.


  125. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 13:05:59 deepdkchocolate

    I read a few of the comments. White men are no better than black men, White men are not some beacon of light for a black woman in this day and age, huh? White men have a dozen pathologies that black men don’t begin to have and personally I believe that the typical white american man is not a good fit for a black woman.I do not believe that a white man in america has anything to offer a black woman.


  126. I hate to put a damper on any kind of sexual referances , but, they do have some very potent pills out there that can make any man be able to perform like a porn stud

    Heck, what have I got to lose, Im 62, and, you know they sell it over the counter down here like aspirin , and, the young studs in Rio use it to keep up with the incredible young beauties they have access to , as well as porn film men are required to take it so they dont lose a shot and time is money, so you know Im not going to be left out of that .Yeah, Im on the pill , and, its good to go for 3 times a night or more and into the next morning…

    So , you know, anyone can up their game if they want to…

    And, I see that maybe some of you are purposfully saturising thes myths that were put out in racism, because it actualy could have an opisite affect on the person who is suposed to be the most potent sexualy , by making them think they have to perform more , putting undue preasure on them to deliver ….at least they could just go on the pill if they have to…


  127. @deepdkchocolate–

    I read a few of the comments. White men are no better than black men, White men are not some beacon of light for a black woman in this day and age, huh? White men have a dozen pathologies that black men don’t begin to have and personally I believe that the typical white american man is not a good fit for a black woman.I do not believe that a white man in america has anything to offer a black woman.

    Based on what I read (but I admit I haven’t read all the sites in entirety), the BWE message is that it is up to each Black woman to make the best relationship choices for herself.

    There are Black women on those sites who say that they have wonderful Black fathers, brothers, sons and other Black male connections. I didn’t read even once where any of them said that “(All)White men are good and (All) Black men are bad.”

    I didn’t read where they said that all Black women must be with a White man. They say that White men are an option for Black women who are interested. So, your beliefs don’t clash with what I read at the BWE sites.


  128. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hipping me to the BWE blogs. Those blogs are the truth, especially Evias and Khadija. They are BRILLIANT women who speak truths and it seems like it has struck a lot of nerves. I will def pass the links on to as many Black women as I can. THANK YOU! ITS ABOUT TIME BLACK WOMEN STARTED TALKING LIKE THIS. Its is DECADES overdue!

    @Jorbia and deepdkchocalate…You ladies are holding it down. These blogs are so much more than what is reported here. They are better than many books I have read and I only wished Khadija was still around writing essays. Truly brilliant women.

    @Menelik Charles…I have seen you around and I thought you were different from what you have portrayed here today, but it is good to know how you really think about Black women…. Good Day.

    @Tyrone…sigh. Black women really need to get away from people like you.

    @Diaryof a negress….Black women like you*Black women are on the bottom of the barrel*. If you really feel like that I feel sorry for you but please stay away from me. Black women with some self worth/ esteem/ smarts really need to stay away from Black women like you.(this was another article but it ties in). The other Black women condemning these blogs without even giving them a chance….sucks for you. You all might learn something…whether financial, life, social, travel, beauty tips but OH WELL.

    Fyi….Evia Moore was married to a Nigerian man for 26 years and she has Black sons. She speaks of her ex husband and sons with nothing but the highest regard and love. She also states she chooses smart men(like her ex husband and current husband) who bring a lot to the table, mentally, financially, emotionally, etc. She would rather smarts, of every kind than muscles.Very intelligent. None of these women worship white men or any men They are too smart for that…They PREACH VETTING everyone and Black women opening up their lives and choices in every way.

    Khadija was a Black nationalist until she saw the true state of the relations of Black men and women and the Black community. Some of the men here do not get this because they are not women in relationships with Black men but are you Black men going to deny the colorism and racial misogyny some Black men practice against Black women…Have you ever heard the heart stopping so called music named rap and hiphop. That music alone was enough to bring on BWE, not to mention all the other stats and dysfunctions going on in the Black community.

    So thank you Abagond, for these links. I really enjoy your blog. You are very intelligent and your writing just keeps getting better.


  129. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 13:51:13 deepdkchocolate

    HD
    @ eepdkchocolate

    It means that black women are usually considered the ugliest women in the world…

    According to whom, HD, we Black women are obviously a serious threat to white racism because of the millions of dollars spent and the media onslaught being perpetrated to implement this nonsense. I personally am proud that Black women get under the skins of white racists here in Amrica. And Black women may be dealing with these lies in America but I have never been anywhere in th world where I wasn’t pursued, desired and held up as a paragon of beauty..lol. So keep hatin’..


  130. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 14:00:08 deepdkchocolate

    malkia
    And how is telling black women to marry outside their race empowering? This just reeks of internalized racism and bad judgement.

    Bear witness to the forces instead of staying out of the affairs of The Black Race have a vested interest in destroying us. 90% of children who are born into white/black relationships are CONFUSED and gullible and cannot identify their enemy which is usually their white parent. I have a friend on FB who is white and married to a black woman of Malawi and has two black sons, when the Trayvon Martin case exploded, his so-called “white” friends and neighbors posted on his wall as to how they didn’t see what all the fuss was about and how come we blacks cannot get over this. This white man allowed this nonsense on his wall and defended the posters, I immediately deleted him and here he comes in inbox begging me to reconsider. I had to ask him, aren’t u raising two black men because trust me the predators out there who prey on black men aren’t going to give ur sons any special considerations because they are mulatto. Which begs the bigger question, how is he raising his children to view themselves? I would never ever marry a white american, I wouldn’t want their pathologies in my bloodlines.


  131. I also want to add that the women behind BWE seem to have the idea that a white man is some kind of trophy or rescue from things that they have issues with in their life. That’s basically offensive. It’s also clear that they cannot possibly have a healthy relationship (with a white man or any other man) going in with those notions.

    @ deepdkchocolate

    That’s very harsh. There are many of us white parents to biracial children who try to do our best to raise our kids. We are not their enemies even if we are white.


  132. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 15:03:39 deepdkchocolate

    Based on what I read (but I admit I haven’t read all the sites in entirety), the BWE message is that it is up to each Black woman to make the best relationship choices for herself.

    There are Black women on those sites who say that they have wonderful Black fathers, brothers, sons and other Black male connections. I didn’t read even once where any of them said that “(All)White men are good and (All) Black men are bad.”

    I didn’t read where they said that all Black women must be with a White man. They say that White men are an option for Black women who are interested. So, your beliefs don’t clash with what I read at the BWE sites.

    Deepdarkchocolate:
    I haven’t read anything on these sites. I am discussing commentary and the photos that are listed HERE, which is suggesting based on the commentary and the photos of Black women looking very happy with their white spouses and the only example of a “Black relationship” being the very dysfunctional and abusive relationship between Ike and Tina Turner. Also there is the suggestion that Black successful men choose white women, no, Black men who choose white women tend to get more media coverage than successful Black men who are in relationships with Black women. As a matter of fact , I believe if u r a vapid untalented whorish white woman who wants their own reality show on “E”, simply marry a Black man and U shall have it. Or make a porno with a Black man and U shall have it.”shrugs”.


  133. @Deepdkchocolate,
    suppose you are a single black woman, whose way of life has led her into an environment where Eurasian bachelors are common as muck, and black ones are really rare,…
    Woyuld it be your duty to wait for your black prince?


  134. “I have never been anywhere in th world where I wasn’t pursued, desired and held up as a paragon of beauty”

    You have a very nice picture ,Deepdkchocolate, so I can see why

    Ill tell you, my biracial son has no confusion and wont hesitate to get in anyone’s face, white or black, to set them straight if they try to psychoanalise him too much.Of course, I raised him in Brazil, maybe exactly for that reason, so he wont have to be unnescasarily psycho analised….instead, he has to deal with anti American sentiments

    Wow, this thread reminds me of the thread on Israel and the Middle East, it seems people who really arnt enemies or against each other are grating up on each other


  135. @deepdkchocolate–

    Bear witness to the forces instead of staying out of the affairs of The Black Race have a vested interest in destroying us. 90% of children who are born into white/black relationships are CONFUSED and gullible and cannot identify their enemy which is usually their white parent.

    I think that blanket statements are the problem but at least you allowed for 10% of the children as not confused.

    About Trayvon Martin, I know White people who were horrified by it.

    @Xeelee–

    I also want to add that the women behind BWE seem to have the idea that a white man is some kind of trophy or rescue from things that they have issues with in their life.

    This too is a blanket statement. I go out with mostly White men because they are the men who like to do the kinds of things I like to do. I’ve been accused of “acting white.” The White men I go out with behave the way I expect a man to behave towards me. I don’t see White men as a trophy. I just have more in common with the White American ones that I’ve met than the Black American men that I’ve met.

    I read on those BWE sites where Black women talk about how their White boyfriend or husband helped them to move to a safer neighborhood or have an improved life. Some of them say that the White men they go out with treat them the way they expect to be treated. Why does this come under negative scrutiny when a Black woman chooses a man like this, who happens to be White. I think that all women want men who treat them in a loving way and can help them to have a more pleasing life. When other women say that, no one objects, but when Black women say that, we are often accused of having “issues.”


  136. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 15:25:08 deepdkchocolate

    Xeelee. @ deepdkchocolate That’s very harsh. There are many of us white parents to biracial children who try to do our best to raise our kids. We are not their enemies even if we are white.

    Oh, so I am supposed to overlook the evidence presented to me everyday when my kids encounter “bi-racial” children who won’t give them the time of day and instantly gravitate towards white kids at the prompting of their parents? Even though said “bi-racial kids” and my kids are the same color? Where are these children getting the notion to look down upon other melinated children like themselves? hmmm? I am not here to placate u or ur sensibilities or massage ur ego or pat u on the back and tell u that u r doing a great job raising ur confused kids, I don’t even know u.. Don’t come at me with that nonsense , most so-called “bi-racial” children are confused . self-hating and think they are better than mono-racial black children. And that is a fact. Sorry the truth hurts . Ur kids probably think they are white even though everyone they will meet in their lives law enforcement landlords teachers mates will look at them as N*****s.. Ur not going to be around then everyday as u r in thir chldhood to assert their alleged “superiority” for having one white parent. One day they are going to have to stand on their feet and be who they are. So who are they?


  137. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 15:34:48 The truth speaks

    Here’s my take on the BWE movement in addition to all that has been said thus far.

    As a young (30-something), attractive Black woman that has graduate school education behind me and come from a highly educated family, I find it difficult to find Black men who are on my level. What I mean by that is most of the Black men who have backgrounds such as myself and that could be classified as good (meaning educated, family oriented and financially sound) OVERWHELMINGLY openly express their affinity (or at least extreme openness) to dating White, Non-Black or racially ambiguous (ie. mixed/light-skinned) women exclusively. The caveat here is that many of them will not actually articulate those words [Exclusively], but any somewhat observant person will begin to notice the trend in their dating patterns. I’ve noticed these trends from Black men that I highly respect such as my Pastor/Church Elders, co-workers/friends and men in my family. I haven’t even touched on highly visible men such as the majority of Black politicians (excluding president Obama), Sports Professionals or other celebrities and such. Additionally, I wanted to add I would never resort to bashing these men on the whole because for the most part, they are GOOD men……just not available for me or other Black women who don’t have some sort of European/Non-Black aesthetic.

    Jorbia said it best:

    “But as women, let’s be honest. (In general) women are much more attracted to men who do control something vital or have power. Why do so many Black American women mince words about that? Black American men don’t mince words about the kind of women they think are pretty, feminine, or wife material”.

    All of us Black women who fall into the plain Black and can’t be confused with anything else ethnic category already know what that means. And, if people are honest, we ALL know what that means.

    I have a prime example that I would like to share. I have a 1st cousin that played for several major Football leagues. I will not divulge which ones, but I will say that his team won the championship multiple times, which of course means he was riding quite high and had the pick of the litter concerning women. There were times where the family would come to the games and by virtue of my cousin being an insider in the league; we were privy to the after-game exclusive events/parties that go along with the territory. It would be interesting to see the players as their wives/families met them after the games. The White players would have their white wives/families, the Latino players would have their Latino wives/families and then you would have the Black players with their White/Non-Black or racially ambiguous wives with their rainbow families. It was truly interesting to watch. Btw, I didn’t mention Asian players because I can’t honestly recall any of them. I also honestly don’t remember ANY Black players that had Black wives like them. I know that this is not always the case (ie. Donald Driver), but overwhelmingly so. We see this pattern played out in everyday life with regular, everyday Black men who are desirable.

    Personally, I have no issue with Black men or anyone else dating interracially. However, Black men seem to do it in a fashion where their intentions seem questionable at best. Many of them come up with these illogical rationalizations about “preferences” or why a Black woman who is closest in resemblance to his mother is not a suitable mate. Honestly, it makes them look bad particularly when they feel the need to bash Black women at the same time (the same is true of the reverse). If I were a White or Non-Black person, I would wonder why many Black men have an apparent weakness for anything that is not like themselves. It actually comes across as self-hatred and ultimately low-self esteem. No other ethnicity of men does this at the rate that Black men do and they don’t seem to care that it makes them look like a laughing stock to the whole world! I am embarrassed by how they do it and try my best to instill self-worth into my son so he will have true pride and not fall prey like so many before him.

    Which brings me to another topic–the Black men who are actually dating and marring Black women. I can’t speak for all here, but my experience has been that Black men that are far beneath me approach me all the time. Before anyone goes off the deep end on that statement, what I meant by that are men who are not gainfully employed, educated, or have multiple baby mammas. For some reason, many of these men feel entitled to a woman of my caliber. And because of the “shortage” of black men on the whole, I am expected to date down or open up my options to include those Black men who are always “trying” but don’t ever actually get there. No accomplished White or other non-Black woman would ever consider doing this, so why should I? Not to mention, if a Black man had a lot going for him professionally and financially, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL he would dare even consider dating a woman with kids by multiple baby daddies and no job. She would be labeled the following: Hood Rat, Ghetto/Welfare Queen, etc. I think you get the picture.

    This post is getting really long, so I will come back later and elaborate on the White Man issue later on………..and I have a lot to say about that!


  138. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 15:55:10 deepdkchocolate

    @ thetruthspeaks..lol. U sound like a real piece of work. Then plan on being alone. What I have noticed, from friends , family members and co-workers is that Back women of ur “caliber” will look down upon Black men who don’t have graduate degrees, or maybe have children from a prior relationship and may not make as much money as U but women like U have tendency to marry a postal worker, the guy who delivers pizza from Domino’s or a cab driver….If he is white, Penty of black women in my social circle have done this and I watch these black women carry thes white men while they go to college and improve upon their curriculum vitae and soon as said white man get’s his Masters degree or ups his carte blanche. it’s bye bye black woman..lol. This sounds like the road u will be heading down because though u may view urself as a”prize” because of ur family and ur “education” or “miseducation” that lily white conditioning u have subjected urself to makes u unsuitable to be in a real loving relationship , but makes u suitable to be some white man’s doormat. Because as beautiful and accomplished as u may think u r, all he will ever view u as is a black woman who is ripe for exploitation, good luck with that.


  139. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 15:58:50 deepdkchocolate

    Oh yes and @ thetruthspeaks u r very much a “product” of the white power structure. Reading ur post does not evoke feelings of love sympathy or positive thoughts in ur regard, u come off as a spoiled, delusional, self-centered loon that men of any race would love to prey upon. Just thought u should be aware of that.


  140. deepkchocolate,

    “Menelik:
    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    In America, perhaps,, that would be the asserted “perception” but globally? Black women’s “Carte blanche” is very high.”

    I am inclined to agree with both of you to an extent. Black men have a higher erotic capital “for men,” right now mostly because dark-skin for men is a trend and it represents masculinity right now…also the sports make black men seem hypermasculine…and I think this threatens SOME other men, but trends come and go…in five to ten years Black men in terms of being portrayed as hyper-masculine could be old news.

    I’ve been told that Black women are treated differently in other countries…but i think globally our beauty is not recogized and i also think our beauty threatens certain people namely black men, white men and white women. SOME Black men are threated by our beauty because it dark skin is recognized as feminine, then they lose their masculinity card, some white women are threatened because if Black women are put on the same level in terms of beauty as white women, they lose their pedestal…some white men are threatened because making black women look attractive could cause an increased attraction between wm/bw, which would mess up the power balance in society since we live in a racist/sexist culture.

    so basically i feel everyone is against black women being treated equally, including and unfortunately SOME Black men.


  141. Abagond, why is my comment in moderation? I’ll put this part here.

    @Xeelee–

    I also want to add that the women behind BWE seem to have the idea that a white man is some kind of trophy or rescue from things that they have issues with in their life.

    I go out with mostly White men because they are the men who like to do the kinds of things I like to do. I’ve been accused of “acting white.” The White men I go out with behave the way I expect a man to behave towards me. I don’t see White men as a trophy. I just have more in common with the White American ones that I’ve met than the Black American men that I’ve met.

    I read on those BWE sites where Black women talk about how their White boyfriend or husband helped them to move to a safer neighborhood or have an improved life. Some of them say that the White men they go out with treat them the way they expect to be treated. Why does this come under negative scrutiny when a Black woman chooses a man like this, who happens to be White. I think that all women want men who treat them in a loving way and can help them to have a more pleasing life. When other women say that, no one objects, but when Black women say that, we are often accused of having “issues.”


  142. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 16:22:10 The truth speaks

    @ deepdkchococolate

    Shame on you! I haven’t even expressed my views on the BWE movement concerning white men and you have already jumped on the defense in attack mode based on what you PERCEIVE my views might be! How truly sad. Don’t you have anything better to do than pick a fight on the internet? I intelligently expressed my views only to be attacked by another Black woman who should know better. I think it is you and not me that runs the risk of being exploited by Black men. Actually, you give credence to the stereotype of the overly-aggressive “strong” black woman (definitely not in a positive sense of the word). It is people like you that cause Black and non-Black men alike to think poorly of all of us. Please go get a life and stop embarrassing yourself on the Internet.


  143. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 16:22:39 deepdkchocolate

    You have a very nice picture ,Deepdkchocolate, so I can see why

    Ill tell you, my biracial son has no confusion and wont hesitate to get in anyone’s face, white or black, to set them straight if they try to psychoanalise him too much.Of course, I raised him in Brazil, maybe exactly for that reason, so he wont have to be unnescasarily psycho analised….instead, he has to deal with anti American sentiments

    Wow, this thread reminds me of the thread on Israel and the Middle East, it seems people who really arnt enemies or against each other are grating up on each other

    Well, thank U , and I will say this , I am a NY’er and I grew up in a community where many people in IR relationships lived and their children were my peers growing up.I watched their struggle growing up and how they were viewed by the greater society at large. I know white parents who did a great job raising their black children so I do not knock IR relationships and “Bi-racial” or “multi-racial” children. I cannot speak on u and ur family as i do not know u, I do know that these days , it seems, that white people are either biologically having black kids or adopting black kids and raising them in a climate of confusion , self-hatred and out and out racism with family members “dropping” into the home just to use the N-word in the presence of these hapless children, Obama grew up in an environment like this. He has stated that his grandparents used the N word repeatedly in his presence. Black and Whites are enemies in America when u have a climate of propaganda, misinformation fear and revulsion between blacks and whites that is pretty indicative of enmity, maybe u found ur slice of heaven in ur relationship and that’s great but racism in america is stronger than ever and now kids are being used in this war.


  144. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 16:30:15 deepdkchocolate

    Please go get a life and stop embarrassing yourself on the Internet.

    Right back at u with ur” I’m too good for a black man rhetoric”..lol. U can’t find a man because u have an over-inflated sense of ur own self-worth and after reading ur post above If I were a man I would get as far away from u as possible, unless I wanted to “pimp” U. Get over urself. U can find a man if u wanted to, there are plenty of nice decent men out there ur ur own worst enemy.Ur not looking for love ur looking for status, Love is supposed to fit into ur cookie-cutter universe, “oh if he’s a black man he needs to have a graduate degree and look like Blair Underwood, I can’t find a man good enough for me.”
    Deal with it. Men probably flee in ur delusion-ass wake.


  145. Menelik Charles,
    “Empowerment with white men=a racial alliance against black men! This has nothing to do with romance or humanism or ones opening options! Its about racially harassing Black men and demonizing them because these women actually perceive themselves as a sub-female species of the human race!

    Their collective ego ideal is to be white!

    white men’s collective ego ideal is to be Black. Black women sense this. They are attached to Black males racially and heterosexually. They see why white men feel as they do towards Black men and why they will stop at nothing to remove them from this planet!

    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    But if one white man would marry ‘up’ (i.e. form a racial alliance with) one of these Black women, he will be assured that she will do everything to sure up his ego, as long is he picks her over the equally hated and envied white female!

    You see romance in any of this ish, brothawolf?”

    ======================

    MY RESPONSE:

    and EVERYTHING you’ve said can be said about Black men/white women…hope you say the same thing on/about those sites.


  146. JORBIA,

    “For some reason, Abagond chose to focus his article mainly on the interracial relationship aspect of BWE.”

    that is my point, abagond ONLY focused on that for whatever reason…


  147. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 16:39:37 The truth speaks

    Again, you prove your aggression and ignorance. I have no desire to argue with a delusional Black Nationalist type such as yourself. Perhaps, the reason you can identify with a man so much is due to your aggressive tendencies. Btw, you comprehended incorrectly. I NEVER said I couldn’t get s man–quite the contrary. I simply expressed my views on the BWE movement concerning BLACK men. Any half-way literate person could see that (obviously not in your case). You are far too simple-minded for me to carry-on with the likes of you. Carry-on. I only engage people who know how to engage in “intelligent” conversation whether we disagree or not. There is a better way to express your opinions than attack someone’s position who hasn’t actually voiced that position yet. Again, shameful. You can continue spewing hate if you like but I am done discoursing with you.


  148. “Very few white men marry black women – only one in 400 of those who are married. A quarter of 1%”

    Abagond, I assume you are speaking only of USA or did you include stats from Britian, where interracial marriage rates are higher than US (and more visible)

    It’s a shame that there needs to be websites like these BWE’s, telling black women to love themselves, accept themselves, and love whoever they want but I guess it can be hard to buck tradition or societal/family expectations, and these women need to feel supported in their choices to go against the norm.

    As for HD’s comment about ‘black women being at the bottom of the totem pole’– as far as beauty standards, I can see where you are going with this. White European features are still held up as the default beauty standard by the western media and western/afro-diaspora societies.

    Look at all the noise and controversy that was made when Leila Lopes (Miss Angola) won Miss Universe 2011. She is very beautiful and one of the best looking women in the contest, yet the white trolls (like Miss France) competing against her were screaming foul,

    and the media made such a big deal about it because in their eyes, a black woman being more beautiful than a white woman is an exception to the rule.

    But black women are not at the bottom as far as desirability or as marriage material. Most men (black,brown, white) marry women within their own ethnic group and

    Every country has it’s ‘exoticals’ that the men run after and in Europe, black women are it.

    European men are more honest and are not afraid to show their appreciation for a black woman, in or outside of their homeland; and they don’t have hangups about marrying a black woman like white American men do.

    Whereas, the majority of white American men are Cowards when it comes to admitting their attraction to black women, they don’t want to deal with the societal stigma (but they have no problems letting go when they come to Jamaica or anywhere else outside of US).


  149. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 16:41:41 The truth speaks

    @ deepdkchocolate

    Again, you prove your aggression and ignorance. I have no desire to argue with a delusional Black Nationalist type such as yourself. Perhaps, the reason you can identify with a man so much is due to your aggressive tendencies. Btw, you comprehended incorrectly. I NEVER said I couldn’t get s man–quite the contrary. I simply expressed my views on the BWE movement concerning BLACK men. Any half-way literate person could see that (obviously not in your case). You are far too simple-minded for me to carry-on with the likes of you. Carry-on. I only engage people who know how to engage in “intelligent” conversation whether we disagree or not. There is a better way to express your opinions than attack someone’s position who hasn’t actually voiced that position yet. Again, shameful. You can continue spewing hate if you like but I am done discoursing with you.


  150. Thetruthspeaks and Deepchocolate,

    I want to Thank you both for sharing your views on this post. This topic in real life is controversial and both of you touch on truths that exist in American society. (even outside of US)

    Since black/brown people are not cyborgs, we all don’t have to agree or act like drones in a collective because we are all individuals coming from different places in life.


  151. Menelik Charles,

    you need to stop implying that no one wants Black women because that line of thought could easily be applied to Black men, black men may date out more but most white/non-black women aren’t into dating Black men either, so the same can be said about Black men. Same for abagond’s remark about “less than 1% white men marry black women,” black wome nare minority it doesn’t take many white/non-black men for black women to have enough suitable partners.

    I do not believe white men /non-black men are automatically better for Black women, I DO NOT BELIEVE most Black men are DBRS. I support Black women who prefer and want to date/marry Black men, I prefer Black men, but one thing I WILL NOT TAKE is people implying that “no one wants Black women,” that’s highly offensive and emotionally abusive…that is one thing I will not take and it’s blatantly not true. I know Black women who are marrying Black men right at this moment, Black men who PREFER Black women…I also know of several Black women off the top of my head who are in relationships with non-black men at the moment. One of my cousins is getting married to a white man who is in finance, she’s a professional Black woman too. So do not tell me that no one wants Black women and do not leave snide remarks like that because the same thing can be said of Black men.


  152. well a better way to put it would be “there is some truth in that no one wants Black women,” but the same could be said about Black men because people aren’t running after Black men for marriage either, let’s face it. Black people in GENERAL ARE THE LAST PICKED by all races, which is WHY Black people need to get it together and start uplifting each other and stop running after non-black people it’s pathetic…PATHETIC and I’m sorry Black men do this way more than Black women and that’s fact. But we all know in all likelihood things aren’t gonna change, so hey Black women do what they do…they wanna go after white/latin guy so be it…they wanna go for Black guys only so be it, that’s cool too…

    but stop pretending that just because sports industry puts black men on pedestal and right now dark skin is equated with masculinity that Black men are better than Black women please…ya’ll are in the SAME BOAT as Black women don’t forget that. underneath it all you’re the same as us.


  153. you make me say angry things and I don’t like going there cuz I like Black men, but if I hear one more person say “no one wants Black women,” like we’re the worst of the worst…my next response won’t be so pretty or civil


  154. and abagond never apologized for his comments earlier either never…


  155. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 17:40:56 deepdkchocolate

    Again, you prove your aggression and ignorance. I have no desire to argue with a delusional Black Nationalist type such as yourself. Perhaps, the reason you can identify with a man so much is due to your aggressive tendencies. Btw, you comprehended incorrectly. I NEVER said I couldn’t get s man–quite the contrary. I simply expressed my views on the BWE movement concerning BLACK men. Any half-way literate person could see that (obviously not in your case). You are far too simple-minded for me to carry-on with the likes of you. Carry-on. I only engage people who know how to engage in “intelligent” conversation whether we disagree or not. There is a better way to express your opinions than attack someone’s position who hasn’t actually voiced that position yet. Again, shameful. You can continue spewing hate if you like but I am done discoursing with you.

    I am not a “Black Nationalist” nor am I “aggressive” I am not arguing with U I am simply commenting on ur post.If that causes u to go into a tailspin, so be it. U created a post lamenting ur “sad” situation as an overly educated over-qualified too good for a regular black man type female and how black men of ur “caliber” choose white or mixed-race women. Go back and read ur post, u sounded like u were airing out some grievances there.I am just saying that maybe u would find some romantic fulfillment if u took off ur blinders and stop writing black men off like that. Yes we do have problems with black men and a lot of men from our race’s tendency to overlook us or disparage us if we are too beautiful or too successful then turn around and rail against” hoodrats” and “welfare mothers”. Not all of us are like this and all I am saying is if we stop viewing each other with pre-conceived notions foisted upon us by the white racist society we exist within then maybe we can all find some fulfilling relationships with our own kind. But it seems we have a tendency to walk around with a pen in our hand prepared to write each other off on sight. It’s gotta stop. If ur offended , I’m sure u will get over it.


  156. @ Linda

    Thank you. I agree 100%, there are many Black men who desire Black women and there are also non-black men who desire Black women. This NO ONE, including Black women crap has to stop. I’m sick of going on forums and seeing comments about how no one wants Black women, including Black men and they only go for black women as a last resort…same with all other men.

    I’m tired of that. really and some Black men, like abagond and menelik, perpetuate that stereotype. We could say that about Black men too.

    Yes, racism/sexism has put Black women in a bad position, yes beauty standards are hard on us, yes that affects us in the dating market, but don’t say no one wants us…we are wanted, we’re just faced with extra barriers and brainwashing that other women have the privilege of not having to deal with.

    There may be stereotypes of Black women, but let me tell you, once people get past that we are desired just like any other women, we are not inferior to anyone…no one is inferior to another human being.

    so stop with the arrogant attitude menelik. just stop.


  157. deepchocolate,

    i don’t know how you’re arguing with but if it’s menelik or anyone telling you negative things about black women, you should just ignore them because they’re just trying to hurt you…just ignore them.


  158. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 17:46:48 Menelik Charles

    Menelik said:

    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    DeepChocolate said:

    In America, perhaps,, that would be the asserted “perception” but globally? Black women’s “Carte blanche” is very high.

    Menelik said:

    unfortunately in much of Europe Black women are seen as prostitutes. Does that count, sister?


  159. i didn’t read your whole comment deepedchocolate, you got a good point, checklists aren’t necessary… but my comment response didn’t make sense in response to you.

    sorry…ignore that comment, i thought u were someone else.

    this whole movement is about respect…people need to respect Black women and stop treating black women like second class citizens just for having dark skin and kinky hair and black men are SUPPOSED to be our allies instead some black men jump on the bandwagon and go around telling people no one wants us and we can’t be raped because we’re ugly these are things coming out of black men’s mouths…I would expect these things from white men or asian men, but Black men come on..I’ve always said for every negative BWE empowerment blog you can find twice as many negative blogs about Black women…

    abagond doesn’t even mention the positive sites about BWE that uplift Black women and don’t bash Black men, he just chooses to focus on the negative and I’m offended. all the hard work that some black women put into being fair and inclusive and this is all you focus on. NOW people want to label all BWE with this stigma just because a few blogs focus on how white men are saviors, when most black women don’t even feel that way. to me, it comes off like some people are kinda threatened that for once Black women are rallying for equality for BLACK WOMEN.


  160. menelik charles…

    and the same is said of black men that’s why they have mandingo parties and sex tourism from european women in jamaica…same reason black men are seen as male prostitutes…so right back at ya. everything that people say about black women ultimately reflects back on black men.


  161. Peanut, I hear you, and, it pains me also to think any black woman would have to feel this way, because, I asure you, I have been married twice to black women , so, they are very much mairedge material in my mind…and, Ok , I dont represent the average person.

    Thanks for answering Deepdkchocolate, and, as I stated, I guess I raised my son in Brazil to avoid some of the things you are mentioning , and, I agree , Linda , white men are screwed up on how they relate to black women . Either they are just racist, or , afraid by all the rheteric floating around.

    I think in general, women have to have their antennas up about any man. And they should be free to have and date their preferances, as well as black men. If a black women dates a white man, they should listen for atitudes that he may have that indicate he is shallow in his concepts of black women and her needs . Same with a black man dating a white woman, its about having the antenna up to find out where she is coming from.

    I tend to think there are reminants of the Black Revolution that might have put too high demands on individuals , trying to find how to deal with a racist society, as well as the actual racist society , that are forcing a dynamic here that may need to be tweaked to deal with the ever shifting American life…In places like Miami, New York, the huge South American and Caribean contribution is changing the “racial” dynamic. There are so many differant shades and mixes of people, that things are changing on that leval ( not on the “racist ” leval, however).


  162. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 18:05:17 deepdkchocolate

    but stop pretending that just because sports industry puts black men on pedestal and right now dark skin is equated with masculinity that Black men are better than Black women please…ya’ll are in the SAME BOAT as Black women don’t forget that. underneath it all you’re the same as us.

    Black men are “objects” du jour. With all this silliness attached to their personas.. Black male /white female relationships are not the utopic relationships the media makes them out to be, look how Seal up and left Heidi. he crap white women pull on white men , they ain’t pullin’ on black men. Really when u watch these reality shows, The Kardashians that awful Kendra Wilkinson, the way these white women treat their men is deplorable. I don’t know why Hank Baskett continues to maintain a relationship with Kendra, she gives him 0 respect and throws the fact that she is the “breadwinner” in his face every chance she gets. What we have to understand as a race is that we still need to listen to each other spend time with each other . does not have to be in a “romantic sense” lets listen to us and be supportive of each other and grow from there. Black men and women are investing far too much time in other race’s rather than our own, I see it everyday.


  163. thank you B.R

    all I ask for is respect. We ALL KNOW how society treats Black women AND Black men. We know how our beauty is maligned, we know HOW Black men are used as sex objects and made to seem like walking, talking testicles, yet their minds and intellect is not valued by society. we all know the stereotypes, SO WHY are Black people (online and offline) always hurling insults back and forth at each other.

    why do we have BLACK MEN GIVING LECTURES and chanting as if it’s a mantra that “no one wants black women,” as if they want to INTENTIONALLY hurt and demean Black women…to keep us in our place or something. In reality, people in general look down on BLACK PEOPLE and it would be wise to realize this. But if you come crazy at Black women and making comments that are demeaning I will come crazy back because i’m not taking the disrespect anymore.

    Abagond harbors some underlying hostility to Black women too and that make me hostile to him and Menelik and others who think like him.

    You just wanna focus on one negative aspect of the BWE movement, a small online movement that hasn’t even really made its way offline yet, we’ve still got black women walking around offline thinking they’re inferior, unworthy and that there is something wrong with their God-given beauty..All BWE really want to do is get Black women realize we’re equal and worthy as anyone else. We want Black women to be able to hold their heads up and abagond overlooks all that!!!

    It’s as if you’re threatened or something and make the whole movement into a joke…


  164. and then you know what abagond, when a black man says something or does something crazy about Black women, you’ll usually just brush it off like “oh he’s just crazy or I’m not gonna waste my time because it’s just one incident,” I don’t see you doing post about Blackmenvent or any of the youtube crazies, no you just want to paint the BWE movement with one big brush and make it seem like most Black women think this way…but with black men “oh it’s nothing, it’s no big deal…they’re just crazy.”

    biased much?


  165. you’re a biased man abagond! it’s a double standard with you…it is NOT equal. you poo poo the black men who do all this crazy stuff but don’t even give the full picture with Black women.


  166. no one wants black women to be treated equally…not even most black women.


  167. I’m really sad to see this post.

    Let me start off by saying that I am an African-American female who is dating a white man. We’ve been together for almost 6 years and he does want to get married, however, I am starting grad school at the end of this month and have goals I would like to attain before I even think about getting married.

    In addition to the fact that I believe in really, really, getting to know someone before marrying them (my last relationship was 5.5 years and we parted amicably without marrying), I also am uncertain if I want to get married when same-sex couples do not have the same right. So the choice not to marry at this time is mine, not his. He, and his family, would LOVE it if we got married.

    The thing that I find disappointing about this post is the way she seems to be woefully ignorant regarding what years of systematic racism has done to emasculate African-American men.

    I agree with her when she says that there is nothing wrong with dating outside of your race. I would add that it’s okay to do this if you find a person who is respectful, culturally aware, aware that we live in a racist society, and able to comfortably confront and challenge their internalized racism. White people like this do exist, I know some.

    I also agree with her that a lot of the burden of maintaining community standards falls on the women. My personal belief is because they are the ones who bear the children.

    I however do not believe there is something wrong with African-American men as a whole. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with ANYONE as a whole unit. I’m sorry to see that she doesn’t have a more positive way to get her message out. It’s not one or the other, and as the poster above said, we should have our antennas up about everyone. When we start directing caution and scorn towards one group over another is when we become just as prejudiced and screwed-up as the people we’re trying to get away from.


  168. and the countless other videos like that OH BUT THOSE DON’T MATTER RIGHT ABAGOND???


  169. When I was in school, i told my professor of women’s studies who specializes in African studies all about the something new movement, which masquerades itself as “empowerment,” and womanism… and she’s a real scholar she’ll school you on what REAL Black women empowerment is and she’ll tell you that what those bloggers EVIA and Sara are doing AIN’T IT.


  170. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 18:23:57 deepdkchocolate

    @ Peanut, u go girl…err ahem.. WOMAN!! I like ur post and I agree wholeheartedly. I love my race but if I feel u need to be checked, I will do it. But I also try and support and uplift my people on the daily.

    Peanut:
    why do we have BLACK MEN GIVING LECTURES and chanting as if it’s a mantra that “no one wants black women,” as if they want to INTENTIONALLY hurt and demean Black women…to keep us in our place or something.

    Because Black men feel threatened by their own women, Black women have held down this race since reconstruction, we strong , we stronger than the white man, white woman or the black man ever imagined. Many of our black men have bought into the white racist paradigm lock stock and barrel and it is disturbing to watch many of OUR men grovel in the white races wake, hey, I write fools like this off everyday , if they want to snap out of their idolatry of the white race, they know where to find me, I have dated white married white but I ain’t forgetting who I am or the struggle of my people. I have never used my “alliance” with a white person to act like I was better than my own kind. I never walked the streets with a white man looking to gauge the reactions of men from my race. If u feel the need to do this as a black man or black woman , u have some deep-seated issues with self esteem. Period.I am not self-hating, I will admit to buying into the paradigm of “The grass is always greener on the other side” , newsflash it ain’t and when I was married to a white man I used to sit at the dinner table listen to these fools spout off racist rhetoric and have to check their asses regularly. U don’t get to talk down about my race cause u don’t know our struggle and if u spent five minutes walking in our shoes or bare feet ur sorry asses would not be able to cut it. After one very bitter exchange with my husband at the time where he made some cavalier comment about My People, I took his ass to school, church and the gates of hell, he was in tears at the end of that exchange, don’t make me mean angry or hostile I just will not sit around and entertain nonsense from people who have no idea of that which they speak.

    Peanut: Abagond harbors some underlying hostility to Black women too and that make me hostile to him and Menelik and others who think like him.

    I agree with U, I initially started posting here maybe last week and I forget which post it was I mean the anti-black racist commentary was outrageous , I responded in kind and here comes Agabond attempting to “chastise” me and instruct me on “how to talk to people” I was basically like, “U cannot be serious”, did he read the thread? An apt description would be that it was pretty darned volatile with many regular members just showin’ the hell out and they were pretty darned comfortable doing it. So don’t come over here trying to check me when ur white members are completely out of control.


  171. @The truth speaks
    Your logic is so flawed that I can’t even begin to correct it.

    dc said:
    “Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hipping me to the BWE blogs. Those blogs are the truth, especially Evias and Khadija. They are BRILLIANT women who speak truths and it seems like it has struck a lot of nerves. I will def pass the links on to as many Black women as I can. THANK YOU! ITS ABOUT TIME BLACK WOMEN STARTED TALKING LIKE THIS. Its is DECADES overdue!”

    Vin says:
    Good luck with getting brainwashed! Soon to be another white man’s jump off.


  172. now if you’ll excuse me i’m going swimming and i’m going to be getting my hair wet i know black women aren’t supposed to like doing that right…cuz we’re all the same undesired, lowest creatures on earth right?… *eye roll*

    thank you


  173. @The Truth Speaks–

    As a young (30-something), attractive Black woman that has graduate school education behind me and come from a highly educated family, I find it difficult to find Black men who are on my level.

    I have a graduate degree too and I like going out with men who have sophistication. For me, it’s not just about money. I prefer men who have had world exposure to ideas and people, places, and experiences.

    I don’t know what you mean by “your level,” but when I say that, I mean a man whose exposure has been similar to mine. A man with a high school diploma who makes good money working at the post office is not likely the same as a man with a graduate degree in even a soft area like “international relations.” Education exposes or is supposed to expose people to new views of the world. It molds and changes your tastes and sensibilities. It broadens you, just like traveling does. The post office guy probably makes more money, but what good is that if I and my friends and family have to talk down to him. Men who don’t think they are on your level can become insecure and this leads to arguments.

    It’s just easier and more satisfying to be with someone who has had equivalent exposure. So I wouldn’t even want to be with some of those rich football players that I read about in the news. They are crude. We wouldn’t have anything in common. Some of them haven’t been exposed to much at all. Good luck to their wives of whatever race.


  174. @Peanut
    I’ve already expressed my opinion on that video.


  175. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 19:05:49 The truth speaks

    @ Jorbia,

    Your sentiments on education being a factor in your relationships is what I was referring to exactly! Education absolutely does broaden your horizons, hence many educated Black women deciding to broaden theirs. This desire to have a compatible mate on this level does not in any way infer that a man who works at the Post Office is somehow “less than” a more educated man. Rather, there is likely to be some sort of disconnect in the communication department as you pointed out. It just seems as some people on this blog are deeply offended at the notion that an educated Black woman should desire (or dare I say is entitled) to a man who is her equal in that regard.

    With that said, I do not believe that a White or other non-Black man is always the answer. I am sure–as a matter of fact, I am positive that there are Black men who fit this description. However, much of my experience has been the Black men that do are often not as thrilled to have an equally compatible Black woman by his side. The Obama’s of this world seem few and far between. If anyone doesn’t believe me, then I would urge you to visit any ivy league university and see for yourself. As a matter of fact, you really don’t even need to go that far.


  176. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 19:06:29 deepdkchocolate

    Peanut:i don’t know how you’re arguing with but if it’s menelik or anyone telling you negative things about black women, you should just ignore them because they’re just trying to hurt you…just ignore them.

    I don’t argue with anyone, I consider myself to be an intellectual and if I read a post that I find to be wrong, preposterous or racist I will refute the misinformation in that post point by point. Why become emotional about it? It’s a discussion and the very same tactics being used to denigrate us as a race are tactics that will be employed against us out in the “real world” so better learn to deal with it. We have enemies everywhere, those who look like us and those who don’t, pitiful black people who use their “miseducation to support their sad notions of their alleged “superiority” to whites who feel they know everything about us and can weigh in on our lives and decision-making because they have some “mixed-race” kids in their homes, or saw a film about a black family..lol.


  177. What I find disturbing about some of the views of some Black women here is that they seem to want to keep all Black women hitched to Black men. If we are to believe the “sexual and romantic currency” that Black men supposedly have, it’s not like Black men are lacking women. So, if these commenters want to be with Black men, then why don’t they just go and do that. If they don’t like White men, that’s their decision. Why do they try so hard to turn all other Black women against White men? Why shouldn’t Black women have options just like Black men, White men, and all other women?

    I didn’t see on any of those BWE sites where they said that White men are the only other men for Black women. They talk about Hispanic, Asian, and other men too. Some commenters here are trying so hard to discredit the BWE.


  178. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 19:26:35 The truth speaks

    @ Vindicator

    I don’t know you or your philosophies but you say my logic is flawed and dare not venture to support your position. How intelligent is that? For the record, I never ONCE said I supported Black women exclusively dating White or other non-Black men.

    Vin says:
    Good luck with getting brainwashed! Soon to be another white man’s jump off.

    The Truth Speaks Says: You are reading too much into something that was not stated. From your actions, I can safely assume that you probably don’t have the mental wherewithal to comprehend what I wrote and are much too sensitive.


  179. @The Truth Speaks–

    With that said, I do not believe that a White or other non-Black man is always the answer.

    I don’t either. But who is saying that? Not saying you, but is someone trying to throw that “always” straw man into this discussion? Why does it have to be “always” or “never”?

    For me, if a Black man has the level of sophistication and exposure I seek, and if he’s interested in me, then he has just as good a chance as any other man. I’m not going to lower my standards just to get a Black man though. The BWE sites are encouraging Black women to have solid standards. It’s degrading to women when they don’t have standards.

    As you’re pointing out, a lot of the Black American men who meet those standards are not interested in Black women. I’ve been on 2 campuses. I work as a professional. I’ve seen that. So what is a Black woman supposed to do? Crawl, prostrate herself, beg, lose her respect and dignity chasing him to become his jump-off, buy him?

    From what I read on the BWE sites, they’re not saying “never” a Black man or “always” a White man. Seems like somebody’s trying to create confusion.


  180. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 19:38:15 The truth speaks

    Furthermore, what I find even more disturbing is that it is Black women on here pretty much attacking other Black women who don’t share the same views about love and relationships. When in actuality, we really are on the same side. I will reiterate, this tendency to lash out and attack others who we disagree with will keep Blacks as a community in a compromising position. Again, people……grown-ups can agree to disagree and still remain civil. And no–other Blacks (whether male or female), Whites or other ethnicities are the enemy. We are all part of the human race. We will not get past this racial tension in the outside world if we can’t even learn to intelligently converse amongst ourselves.


  181. @ Peanut,

    I feel you are getting too worked up over something that is out of your control. It won’t change just because you don’t like it. Just don’t let it get to you. It’s tough, but that is the dice God gave you. You just got to deal with it. I am talking about black women being seen as the least beautiful.

    Well, not everywhere are they seen as this. It depends on context. In the context of all the races in the world, then YES black women are seen as least beautiful. Firstly, all the other races will automatically pick THEIR women as the most beautiful. Then add in racial propaganda and BLACKNESS will be seen as the least beautiful of all the other shades. We were slaves, we have big lips and flat noses, apparently we are thuggish in nature, we are not as intellectual, our home continent is the LEAST developed… Lets face facts, they’d be CRAZY to think of us as somehow better – MEN AND WOMEN.

    Anyways, it becomes a bit egotistical when it is all about HOW WE ARE SEEN. Yeah, humans are social creatures, we want recognition, we deserve to be treated with respect but also we must have the fortitude to withstand the pressure when we are not. We can’t be 100% reliant on others for our own personal self-esteem. Black people are busy fighting for how they are seen… Fighting to be accepted.

    Don’t you see? We already lost before we even begun. You don’t become free by just seeking your tormentors approval. Right of the bat, you give him/her all the power.


  182. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 19:43:29 The truth speaks

    @ Jorbia

    I couldn’t have said it better myself. And yes, unfortunately, I am new posting here but have already come across the hyper-sensitive individuals who’ve taken what was said (and what wasn’t even said) and twisted into an all or nothing argument complete with name calling. Not a good representation.


  183. I don’t think I have seen a comment stating this:

    Beauty is down to the individual. Some women are beautiful, some are not and this is also dependent on the person seeing this. A beautiful woman to person A might be unattractive to Person B.

    I therefore don’t think you can classify beauty in terms of race because any specific race has so many people – some ugly, some beautiful.

    The rest is just propaganda.


  184. @Wilson–You have a refreshing take on this.

    We were slaves, we have big lips and flat noses

    But haven’t most groups been slaves or de-statused at some point in history?

    Numerically, there might be more Asians with flat noses and big lips than Blacks.

    apparently we are thuggish in nature,

    Are we? Is this due to lack of education and exposure, culture?

    we are not as intellectual

    Yet Black American women are pressured to accept Black men with lower education! I know that a person with a high school diploma can be more intellectual than a college grad, but not usually.

    our home continent is the LEAST developed

    This is the biggest part of the image problem, the image of Africa as the “dark continent” that can’t get its balance..


  185. deepedkchocolate,

    thank you, you are right. my own words best apply to myself. i shouldn’t let people get me upset, but it’s difficult not to become emotional when it’s your identity and you hear it constantly. I admit i don’t have the thickest skin, but i don’t think that it’s unreasonable to be upset about things. I don’t consider myself an “intellectual,” I consider myself someone is constantly learning and questioning. I don’t claim to know everything and my opinion is forever changing.

    My emotions sometimes can weaken my point i know it’s something i must work on, i’m emotional. but, i pride myself in being emotional, i dislike the “strong black woman,” stereotype and if something upsets me i may say something and express my emotions accordingly.


  186. @ jorbia,

    black women should be with whoever respects them, but the bashing of black men is not necessary that is the point that I THINK abagond was getting at. i don’t dispute that.

    but my problem with abagond is that he’s a hypocrite. he doesn’t do posts about blackmenvent or the other black men and countless people who bash black women, but he wants to discredit entire BWE idea just because of some bloggers and some other people who aggrandize white men and degrade Black men.

    He selectively chooses ONLY to focus on that and ignores ALL the other issues that BWE bring up like discrimination in employment, black women and housing discrimination, domestic abuse, dismanteling racist beauty standards and a diverse range of topics that other BWE blogs discuss he overlooks those.

    then he allows menelik and other black male posters to comment about how black women are the unwanted as if women are RUNNING after black men in droves…if no one wants black women then no one wants black men either that’s reality.


  187. @Wilson–

    Beauty is down to the individual. Some women are beautiful, some are not and this is also dependent on the person seeing this. A beautiful woman to person A might be unattractive to Person B.

    But can a woman be beautiful if barely any person sees her as beautiful? It’s like that tree that falls in the forest. Can a woman be beautiful if no one acknowledges it? Can she be beautiful in a vacuum? It’s usually a waste of time for Black American women to depend on others to see them as beautiful. Barely anyone ever calls a Black American women beautiful and when they do it’s because they want something. The challenge is for Black women to know they are beautiful without any or only rare confirmation.

    I therefore don’t think you can classify beauty in terms of race

    In America, this is sadly not true. If you say a woman is beautiful and she is not present or known, only a tiny number of Americans might assume you are talking a Black woman.

    The rest is just propaganda.

    This is where the beauty of Black American women stays. This is why there’s so much arguing about it.


  188. @ Peanut,

    I have to say, without you putting so much emphasis on this issue, I for one wouldn’t have been educated about it. It was in another thread where I came across a post of yours, of a youtube clip of a black person calling in on a radio show and giving his opinion on beauty.

    I can definitely understand where the emotions are coming from. Nothing hurts more than having your humanity undermined.

    That being said, I have a question:

    With regard to this issue, is your major concern about black women in general or is it about how this piece of propaganda affects you personally as an individual black woman? Or maybe a bit of both…


  189. @Peanut–

    ALL the other issues that BWE bring up like discrimination in employment, black women and housing discrimination, domestic abuse, dismanteling racist beauty standards and a diverse range of topics that other BWE blogs discuss he overlooks those.

    Yes, from what I saw, the BWE cover the whole spectrum of quality of life issues for Black women and that’s why I wondered why the interracial marriage option consumed almost the whole focus of his article.


  190. @Menelik Charles

    There is a lack of black men and an abundance of black women. Literally, black women outnumber black men by 2 million. And black women earning college degrees outnumber college-educated Black Men 2 to 1. When you count the number of black men incarcerated and the thousands of black men who turn up dead or missing each year; Or even the ones who have a prison record or already have kids–this makes black women’s dating pool smaller.

    I’m stating the cold hard truth. I’m not saying black men are inherently bad or that black women are inherently good, because that is not the case. Some of these problems ie. mass incarceration of black males are directly to institutionalized racism. But still, others can be attributed to personal choices–not everything is “whitey’s” fault.

    And when I speak of “black males” I refer specifically to the black American males. I do notice African male immigrants, especially Nigerian men,make better husband material ( education and career wise) then AA males.

    ,


  191. @ Jorbia,

    “But can a woman be beautiful if barely any person sees her as beautiful? It’s like that tree that falls in the forest. Can a woman be beautiful if no one acknowledges it? Can she be beautiful in a vacuum? It’s usually a waste of time for Black American women to depend on others to see them as beautiful. Barely anyone ever calls a Black American women beautiful and when they do it’s because they want something. The challenge is for Black women to know they are beautiful without any or only rare confirmation.”

    ============================================================

    Interesting questions.

    I think that women and men alike are beautiful regardless of what anyone says. Everyone has something unique to offer. That being said, we as human beings are heavily dependent on others. This is both good and bad. Good because, others can be a great source of happiness and usually, I assume, at the end of ones life, the thing that matters most is the sort of relationships one had with his fellow human beings. Bad because, if those others don’t have our best interest at heart, then they can be a source of great pain.

    The challenge comes from being able to counter the latter without conceding the former. The problem with both is that they are dependent on the same thing: Emotions. You just have to work on it, to make sure you don’t shut them off but also to make sure that you can receive as well as give, in my opinion.

    I really do feel for black women in general, especially those who are not stereotypically beautiful and have to somehow make peace with the fact that, “Yes, this is who I am, this is my life”. I know it beggars the question, why is who you are what others say you are?? But now that is being too philosophical.

    Don’t get me wrong, as a black man, I also do have my own demons to fight. We all do.


  192. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 21:17:34 The truth speaks

    @ Jorbia and Wilson.

    On the topic of Black beauty (particularly dark-skinned beauty), I can honestly say that I have been considered beautiful by both Black and various non-Black men. As a matter of fact, many non-Black men can appreciate my distinctively Black features more (unfortunately). While I don’t feel it is very important to go into this, I think it is only fair to mention that I have a dark brown complexion with not too distinctively African features (meaning I don’t have a particularly large/round nose of very big lips–full nevertheless). I feel I may get attacked for that last comment, so I must stress that I know Africans are the most diverse people feature-wise and it is not uncommon to see Africans naturally born with a variety of features that are not considered Black by the less enlightened. The point is by skin tone alone, I have been overlooked as qualifying as a beautiful woman in many Black circles. Again, if I had lighter skin, lighter colored eyes or a certain hair type (despite any other aesthetic that would typically contribute beauty), I probably would not have been overlooked as much. Am I hurting over this seething in despair? Absolutely not! I have no problem moving on to where I’m appreciated because I never thought less of myself just because society told me and other little Black girls that we’re not acceptable by virtue of who we are.

    Jorbia is right, it takes a Black woman with a heightened self-esteem to continually believe she is beautiful when every subliminal and direct message she receives is contrary to that fact.


  193. @Wilson–

    But now that is being too philosophical.

    Yes, since there is no objective measure of beauty. It has to do with opinions. This is why so many women doubt their beauty. Opinions are shaky.

    Don’t get me wrong, as a black man, I also do have my own demons to fight. We all do.

    Thanks for your honesty.


  194. @The Truth Speaks–

    On the topic of Black beauty (particularly dark-skinned beauty), I can honestly say that I have been considered beautiful by both Black and various non-Black men. As a matter of fact, many non-Black men can appreciate my distinctively Black features more (unfortunately).

    If you’re a lighter woman, Black men might show you more interest, but you have big doubts. You wonder what are his compliments based on. Black self-hate? It makes some lighter women wonder whether the man is looking at her and liking her, or is it just her skin. You get a bad feeling because you know that if you were dark, he most probably wouldn’t have looked twice at you.


  195. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 22:21:18 deepdkchocolate

    @deepdkchocolate–

    Bear witness to the forces instead of staying out of the affairs of The Black Race have a vested interest in destroying us. 90% of children who are born into white/black relationships are CONFUSED and gullible and cannot identify their enemy which is usually their white parent.

    I think that blanket statements are the problem but at least you allowed for 10% of the children as not confused.

    About Trayvon Martin, I know White people who were horrified by it..

    @ jorbia…I know white people who were horrified by Trayvon Martin’s stalking and murder for like 5 minutes and then it was like,”Please , can we move on?” I don’t know what ur point is but visit any news story on msn or any other news organisation here on the world wibe web read the comments attached to any story pertaining to Trayvon Martin and u will see exactly what the white mind-set is. ok?And I do not make blanket statements, thank U.If u have something to post to me bring facts do not share with me how u feel because I do not know who u r nor do I care how u “feel” ok?


  196. jorbia,

    You said, “I spent most of last night reading through those BWE sites. There is a lot of material on the BWE sites there on Black women loving themselves, networking, business, health, hair care, safety, finance, travel, spirituality, nutrition, obesity, politics, and so on. I could put over 300 links here to discussions about all of those topics on those sites but I won’t.”

    That’s why I said SOME BWE sites. I can’t make a generalization on all of them based on some especially if I haven’t seen all of them.

    By the way, why not post just a few links. You don’t have to post 300, assuming you’ve seen a page with that many links.


  197. jorbia, one more thing.

    I really doubt that you’ve visited 300 sites of that nature. So, I’m assuming you’ve seen a page with links to those sites.


  198. Peanut,

    You said, “I’m sick of going on forums and seeing comments about how no one wants Black women, including Black men and they only go for black women as a last resort…same with all other men.”

    Then avoid them! It’s hard to resist, but stay away from forums like that if they bring you down. That’s why I stay away from local and certain news websites for the same reasons.


  199. I think some of the supporters of these BWE sites and their creators are being very disingenuous. The fact is, central to the BWE movement is the character assassination of black men. Ive been reading their sites for years now. They have actually gotten worse. The “man-catchin” faction (as dubbed by Gina of WAODs) of the BWE movement is far more popular than any of the other writers and or ideas that is offered up by these women. Black women, who are of that ideollogical bent, will saturate the comment section of these sites when the focus is on the down trodden black woman, the black “male” villain, and the white male savior.

    Abagond must do a post on how black women’s relationship woes are now the White Man’s Burden.


  200. Everyone,

    Am I the only one who’s witnessing breakdowns with this post? I know this is a touchy subject, but goodness.

    Let me say a few things, and you may not like them or agree with them, but it’s okay:

    First, we can not deny that there are BWE bloggers and writers who subscribe to promoting interracial love at the cost of their own group. (I use the word “group” as opposed to race by the way).

    Second, there are sites that do not subscribe to such intra-racism by black women for black women.

    Third, and most importantly, this back-and-forth I’m seeing shows how deep our pain goes when it comes to living in a white supremacist society. Subjects like this shouldn’t exist in a civilized society, but white racist societies are anything BUT civilized. It’s sad, but true.

    We live in a world where the concept of race still exists. Even though it is proven to be a concept sociopolitical division as opposed to biological differences like some nuts believe in, it’s still here. And in a sense, it matters.

    Black people in this society has lived with this concept for centuries, and their scars are passed down from one generation to the next. Whether we like it or not, we are watched and demonized at every turn from any where at almost any time. Why? What good reason is there?

    This is why, to me at least, interracial dating and marriage involving blacks is not seen as beautiful from some blacks and some non-blacks. It is seen as something suspicious. It is seen as something that must be watched. And it is seen as something to despise.

    Whites have despised blacks getting with whites for centuries, and it still holds true today. With the treatment of blacks by whites in history up until this very moment, some blacks are just as upset at seeing their people with whites, who are seen as the enemy.

    The truth is that no matter what black people do, this society will demonize, dehumanize and even destroy them. Black people can not seem to love whoever they want even if it’s with other black people. What kind of society would largely allow this and still consider itself civilized?


  201. jorbia,

    “I spent most of last night reading through those BWE sites. There is a lot of material on the BWE sites there on Black women loving themselves, networking, business, health, hair care, safety, finance, travel, spirituality, nutrition, obesity, politics, and so on. I could put over 300 links here to discussions about all of those topics on those sites but I won’t.”

    Pray tell, why are the BWE allowed to bash black women but other people cant? It just seems like no one except for black women who are advocating to black women that they need to taste the “rainbeau” can talk about how fat, reckless, irresponsible, ghetto, etc. black women are. All under the guise of being concerned for their health and well being.

    Do you think a black man would have been allowed to start the NWNW campaign? It would have been seen as bashing black women. But because a black woman (Karazin) started that movement, it was ok for her to essentially repeat all the negative tropes about single black mothers in the hopes of improving their lives.

    Gina of WAOD had to put some of those ladies on blast about the fat shamming and the “man-cathin.” I especially enjoyed the scathing critique she had for Khadijah Nassef when she, Nassef, rebuffed suggestions of doing a movie about Barbara Jordan referring to her as an “asexual Mammy.”

    Further to your point about the over emphasis on inter-racial relationships involving black women, Kahdijah Nassef recently wrote an article on how black women can access white privilege by marrying white (Alpha) men. Weakly citing the cases of George Zimmerman and the Virginia Tech shooter, she argued that the marriages between a Hispanic woman in the former case, and Asian women, in the latter case, to white men, protected Zimmerman after the Trayvon Martin murder and the Korean community after the VTech massacre.

    So you see, this isnt just about black women finding love with white men. This is about black women shedding their blackness (and all the burdens thereof) through IR pairings with the worlds Alpha male.


  202. Lastly, and this is to all the “white men own and control everything” brigade… Its a non-sequiter fallacy to argue that white men own and control over thing. About 1% of the American population controls most of its wealth and resources. Most white men do not belong to that 1%. If you are a black woman who is with a white man, your white man, in all likelihood controls and owes nothing but his house and his vehicle- both of which is probably valued at less than $200,000. Im not going to even discuss falling housing prices and we already know how vehicles depreciate. Not every white man is like the little Monopoly man with a top hat and a monocle.


  203. @Peanut,

    “He selectively chooses ONLY to focus on that and ignores ALL the other issues that BWE bring up like discrimination in employment, black women and housing discrimination, domestic abuse, dismanteling racist beauty standards and a diverse range of topics that other BWE blogs discuss he overlooks those.”

    With all do respect, black women overlook those issues as well to obsess about black men and their romantic choices, rappers, athletes and Tyler Perry. I have often criticized black women for ignoring issues that really matter instead of dwelling on the trivial. Lets not pretend that the BWE circles dont fall pray to the trivia as well. They do, especially as the issues above dont directly involve black men. Additionally, the only time these BWE want to talk about black children is when they are talking about parental abandonment. If the black woman as victim and black man as perpetrator dynamic cant show cased, these BWE will ignore the issue like the plague. Its why Karazins campaign was No Wedding No Womb as opposed to No Condom No Sex. The former puts most the responsibility on black men (marry me or else) while the latter puts the responsibility on black women…to just say No!


  204. on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 23:51:07 deepdkchocolate

    Peanut
    deepedkchocolate,

    thank you, you are right. my own words best apply to myself. i shouldn’t let people get me upset, but it’s difficult not to become emotional when it’s your identity and you hear it constantly. I admit i don’t have the thickest skin, but i don’t think that it’s unreasonable to be upset about things. I don’t consider myself an “intellectual,” I consider myself someone is constantly learning and questioning. I don’t claim to know everything and my opinion is forever changing.

    My emotions sometimes can weaken my point i know it’s something i must work on, i’m emotional. but, i pride myself in being emotional, i dislike the “strong black woman,” stereotype and if something upsets me i may say something and express my emotions accordingly.

    @ Peanut, I applaud U because all this hate serves to force us to “react” by wearing protective armor to protect us not only from “the enemy” but from each other, ur not afraid to feel, ur not afraid to be angry and outraged and we should all be angry and outraged by how we are perceived and treated in this society. We all have different ways to handle this onslaught of abuse that is creating enmity amongst us. U r passionate and outspoken, don’t change , that’s u.I choose to dismantle these ridiculous assertions being made against us by discrediting them piece by piece, there is a war against our race going on and we r warriors fighting that fight , we don’t have to fight the same way , it’s enough that we fight. U demonstrate strength and vulnerability and I feel u impact everyone posting here, keep making ur voice heard.


  205. @brothawolf

    I agree that the comment section has become a bit vulgar and insensitive to the heart of the BWE movement for a ‘minority’ of its proponents. However, when you have crafted a whole social justice movement around coupling with white men to escape the burdens of blackness, than the inter-racial issue does become central to any critique. As previously stated, Khadija Nassif of Muslim Bushido actually argues that black women can access white privilege by marrying white men. Her proof was the way in which George Zimmerman, the son of a Peruvian woman and a white American man, was treated with kid-gloves by the Sanford police.

    We arent dealing with black women who want to open up their options because of the gender disparity between black men and black women, educated or not. We are talking about a new arm of white supremacy peddled by black women who view it as an escape route out of blackness. Lets also not forget that if you arent a black woman a la Kerry Washington or Zoe Saldana, you will be used as cannon fodder.


  206. @ wilson it is both.

    I don’t like it when people are being mistreated and i see black women being mistreated all too often it pains me to see the things some black women go through just for having kinky hair and dark skin and I’m brown skinned myself, so if its hard for me i know it’s hard on dark skin black women and they get the most abuse and it hurts my feelings. it pains my heart.

    the racism, colorism and sexism hits black women the hardest of all and no one wants to acknowledge this it’s frustrating when black men join in, i feel like as a collective black men can’t understand black women at all.


  207. i just can stand how the lighter your skin is the more valued you are in this society and that leaves most black women at the bottom. I can’t stand how the life of a blonde missing white woman is more valued than the life of a chocolate skinned missing black woman. people think the beauty standards are just superficial but in this society we live in, beauty for whatever twisted reason is equated with value and morality and thats why it matters. beauty perception matters


  208. jorbia, one more thing.

    I really doubt that you’ve visited 300 sites of that nature. So, I’m assuming you’ve seen a page with links to those sites.

    I said “links,” not sites and I went to some of the sites that Agabond listed at the top. Some of the posts talk about many different topics, so what I was saying is that if one post talks about marriage, finance, health, education, travel, spirituality, exercise, beauty tips, politics on the job, that would be 9 links I could make to that one post if I were doing research.
    For some Black women, that information is valuable because it is specific information about us, tailored for us.

    The posts I read covered a wide spectrum of quality of life issues for Black women plus tips and advice. Yet Agabond focused his article only on (1) interracial relationships and (2) Black men.

    If you’re interested, I would suggest you go and read some of the posts. It would probably take 10 years to read all of the posts! I just scanned some of the comments.


  209. @ Peanut

    Black Men go missing far more than white women, yet when was the last time a missing black male case that received major media publicity?

    Media attention for missing persons are geared by race and gender.

    As for society’s lighter skin preference, it’s not right, but that’s the way it is.
    Of course, we know there are other forms of beauty outside of the skinny, blonde white woman. But it’s a white man’s world and he manipulates beauty standards and what not. Most of the media is BS.

    ,


  210. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 00:31:41 Menelik Charles

    @ Peanut,

    I’m not sure how you can compare the numbers of Black male prostitutes with those of Black women lol Maybe you should try CONTRASTING the numbers. There is simply no comparison as we all very well know.


  211. @NorthEastUK–

    I think you mentioned you’ve been reading those sites for years. Why do you do it when it bothers you so much? You seem to know all the names and details about who said what and when before somebody else said something else.

    Why do they interest you so much? Why don’t you ignore them?


  212. @ Peanut:

    In my first paragraph I tried to make it clear that they are not only about IRR, but that that is what they are best known for. It is also what would get the most attention in the thread even if I said nothing about it. It is also the part that most needs to be called out and addressed. It is the snake in the garden, the poison in the bottle.

    If you or Jorbia want to write a guest post on BWE I will gladly post it. I understand that my own point of view makes it hard for me to be sympathetic.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/guidelines-for-guest-posts/

    As for Menelik, etc, I do no control what he says any more than I control what you say. I thought about banning white people from this thread, and I think a good argument for that can be made, but to ban black men would be unfair.


  213. @ Peanut

    “no you just want to paint the BWE movement with one big brush and make it seem like most Black women think this way”

    I never got that sense from my post: I never said or assumed that most black women believe in BWE.


  214. @jorbia

    Youve already demonstrated your mental immaturity throughout the comment section. I never said those sites bothered me and if I ignored them, I wouldnt be able to speak about them. You either defend your position or keep quiet.


  215. @Peanut: Could you point me towards some of the better BWE sites/blogs? Thank you.


  216. I have to admit, I’ve never heard of this BWE movement until now (abagonds post) but what Peanut said about black women in the REAL world is so on point, it needs to be repeated.

    “Peanut to Abagond,
    You just wanna focus on one negative aspect of the BWE movement, a small online movement that hasn’t even really made its way offline yet,

    we’ve still got black women walking around offline thinking they’re inferior, unworthy and that there is something wrong with their God-given beauty”


  217. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 01:27:25 Truth B. Told

    Jorbia’s comments illustrate the two fatal flaws that is the ultimate doom of the BWE.

    Then why would women want men who hardly control anything. Just like Black American men want women who they think are pretty, sexy, and feminine, well, women want men who have control.

    The first flaw is the Apex Fallacy. In aggregate, white men control everything. The problem for the BWE is that people don’t marry in aggregate, they marry individuals. A good portion of White men don’t own and control anything. Why can’t the BWE see the many White male faces among the Occupy Wall Street and the We are the 99% gatherings?

    And let’s face it, when BW get a WM, more times than not he is not a policy maker or a mover and shaker in society. White women marry the vast majority of those power types, Asian women pull a few (Facebook guy, Julie Chen’s Husband, Ruport Murdoch’s wife). BWE? They celebrate a guy (George Lucas) who made a movie about blacks without BW and who has a black partner that he has been with for 5 years and has yet to marry (even at his advanced age). A BM who strings a BW along for 5 years without marriage would be DBR of course.

    Men who do have money, power, and control are in high demand regardless of race. There will be fierce competition for those men. If you are going to play the game you can’t whine about the outcome, something that you have done plenty of in the past. Well actually, you can whine, but that will only expose you as the typical BWE hypocrite, wanting to preserve female hypergamy while trying to distort and limit male sexual selectivity.

    If MEN with those resources decide that white, light, and straight hair, equals feminine and pretty, then that is what they decide. And keep in mind that while only a small percentage of WM own and control things, nearly 100% of WW own light skin and non-nappy hair.

    The problem with that is that you can’t use that label to control anything or produce food, clothing, or shelter for anyone or protect yourself. White men have the money, power, and the control and gave Black men a super-stud label.

    The second flaw can be described as the Hand That Rocks the Cradle Rule. If BM are such powerless and ineffective tools, as BWE are willing to tell anyone who would listen, then what does that say for Black wombs and Black motherhood? Why would a White man, who rose to the top of the world in the past 500 years mating with White women, trade those white wombs in for a Black Womb? As the BWE would put it, if BM would “starve to death” without WM (nevermind the fact that Black men ate and survived for millennia upon millennia in Africa before any European intervention) then wouldn’t Black women’s womb be dependent upon White women’s womb?

    Which goes hand in hand with Menelik’s point of Black men being the only race of men with more sexual currency than it’s females. It has nothing to do with being “sexual studs”. If BWE are going to continously confess to the world that they can’t raise what they produce, especially male children, then why would anyone want to reproduce with them on primary basis?


  218. @Linda

    My advice to you is to stay away from the BWE movement if you feel like the self image of black women and girls is in the toilet. They are very schizophrenic. On the one hand many of them wear their hair naturally but on the other, some regard natural hair as “slave hair” and accuse black people who advocate black women to wear their hair naturally as saboteurs. At one point they told black women that white men appreciated their non-diluted West African features, unlike black men, but quite recently a few have given black women permission to get plastic surgery. They routinely shame black women who are fat and essentially black them for the poor image black women have in American society. Read here:

    http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/waod/2012/3/5/happy-fat-black-woman-appreciation-day-youre-not-single-beca.html

    If you refer to my post above, if you arent Kerry Washington or Zoe Saldana, its an exercise in extreme masochism to read their writings.


  219. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 01:35:39 Menelik Charles

    @ NorthEastUK,

    you’re dropping some science ‘n’ sense, Bro man!


  220. @Agabond–

    If you or Jorbia want to write a guest post on BWE I will gladly post it.

    Agabond, after I visited some of the sites you posted, I think the scope of your article was very stingy because the assumption from the title could be that you were going to talk about the spectrum of BWE topics whereas you focused on mainly 2 of them. It would seem that if you were most interested in Black women’s relationships with White men, then why call the topic “BWE”? Dating or marrying IR is just one of the many topics they talk about on those sites. The most important message I think they try to get across is to encourage Black women to go forth and explore all people, places and things in the world.

    I already date out most of the time. If I wrote about BWE, I wouldn’t focus on IRR. Why would you call IRR the “snake in the garden” or “poison in the grass”? So, I wouldn’t be able to be sympathetic either because I don’t understand why you or anyone would think that way. I notice that some of the commenters here are saying they don’t have a problem with IRR but they obviously do.

    I think that Black American women have a need for certain information that is tailored specifically to our unique situation. Some of what I read on those sites will prove to be very useful to me and some of the other Black women readers.They may not admit it though. Thank you for listing the sites.

    Some of your readers seem to want to fight a civil war about something they read on those blogsites! Thanks, but I wouldn’t be interested in writing about anything I read on the sites because I know that it’s not possible to have a useful discussion.


  221. @Jorbia

    NorthEastUK/QON/eshowoman/kigali/tyneandwear/ is a foul mental case of a woman??? who hates Black women. This mental case has been banned from so many Black women blogs. It hates Black women but is obsessed and cannot stay away. I dont know whether to laugh or pity It? Her mother really did a number on It. Be prepared for the hate and slander It will throw at Black women. It has already started up top. Just a heads up.


  222. And the lies. Be prepared for it.


  223. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 01:43:55 Menelik Charles

    @ dc,

    why dont you do the decent thing go some place else with YOUR hateful drivel? Whoever the NorthEastUK person is, their views are sober, sensible and civilized!

    I wish I delivered some of what I said here with less emotion and more clinical common sense!


  224. @NorthEastUK–

    I never said those sites bothered me

    You are obviously aggravated by those sites. Why deny it? Let other readers be the judge.

    You either defend your position or keep quiet.

    I don’t take orders from you.


  225. Ok Menelik.

    MY *drivel* is hateful.

    Whatever you say, sir.


  226. @ Jorbia

    The poison in the bottle is not IRR but the internalized racism that it is based on. I have nothing against IRR in and of themselves.


  227. well you really hurt my feelings abagond…you’re always implying that no one (including black men) wants Black women YOU ALWAYS do that…WHY???


  228. @GJ

    you sound resigned to accept this racist beauty standard when you don’t have to. STAND UP FOR people and stop allowing people to degrade and dehumanize black women and go for equality!!!


  229. @ Peanut

    “well you really hurt my feelings abagond…you’re always implying that no one (including black men) wants Black women YOU ALWAYS do that…WHY???”

    How am I implying that?


  230. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 02:30:39 Menelik Charles

    GJ said:

    when I speak of “black males” I refer specifically to the black American males. I do notice African male immigrants, especially Nigerian men,make better husband material ( education and career wise) then AA males.

    Menelik says:

    I do notice that African female immigrants, especially Nigerian women make better wife material (compatibility and maternally-wise) than AA females.

    Oh, does this sound like a sly dig at African-American women? Oh, I am sorry.

    ,


  231. jorbia,

    Okay. Now I understand. Thanks for clearing it up.


  232. peanut,

    How has Abagond implied that no one wants black women?


  233. because both you and MENELIK do this all the time…

    abagond, I understand that you would be offended that some Black women make degrading blog posts that uplift white men as saviors and degrade Black men I COMPLETELY understand that and agree that is wrong. But my problem with you abagond is you focus on the few Black women who do this to Black men, but you ignore the hundreds of websites, blog posts and videos that bash black women. Black women are under attack CONSTANTLY both on the internet and off and UNFORTUNATELY many of those come from black men. But I posts the videos on here that upset me and you don’t even care about them…you excuse their foolishness, but let a few Black women say something and then the whole BWE movement is this and that.

    it’s upsetting.

    Menelik,

    YOU LOOOOVE to go around telling the world how no one wants Black women YOU LOVE IT and you and abagond love to recite that “less than 1% white men marry black women stat,” like it’s holy scripture. WHY DO YOU ALL LOVE telling the world that NO ONE wants Black women…including Black men WHAT do you gain from that? You both always do that and don’t think that I’ve forgotten that one heinous comment you made about black women not being “good enough” to be raped abagond, that comment that I asked you to remove and you’ve made other offhand comments about black women on this blog before.

    Honestly, the things you all say sometimes. You LOVE to tell people that no one wants Black women and then PRETEND to be all about “loving the sistas,” please! It hurts abagond, your words hurt people. you need to learn how to say things please!


  234. and another thing abagond you love to make all these posts about how no one wants black women but i have YET to see a post about “why so few white women marry black men,” i have YET to see that.


  235. Menelik,

    It sounds like you dividing people of African descent and them paint those divisions with a collectivist view like when you compare Black Americans with Africans. In doing so you’re making it seem like Africans are better suited for relationships than Black Americans, but haven’t mentioned why. How come?


  236. peanut,

    You’re scaring me.


  237. EVEN IF most men don’t prefer black women do YOU REALLY THINK I wanna hear lectures from Black men about WHY that is…or how we’re on the bottom and we’re masculine and all this do you REALLY think that’s going to help?


  238. the minute black women try and do something for US it’s a problem…sickening! if more people defended black women and stood up for us this wouldn’t be happening


  239. @Truth Be Told–

    To your point #1, let the record show that it was Vindicator who introduced the comment that ‘Black men don’t hardly control anything’ and it was Menelik who dropped brilliance on us by saying that ‘White men are the most powerful men in the world.’ Take your whine to them.

    To your point #2, or “rock the cradle”–since you’re flinging White women’s non-nappy hair and White skin in Black women’s faces, let me also point out to you as I did before that if it’s true that Black mothers instill failure in Black boys as your ilk likes to claim, then it is White mothers who instill racism in White boys because both mothers rock those respective cradles. Both mothers are the child’s first teachers.

    Yet, Black men of your ilk adore White women and lighter and all varieties of white-skin shade women who look the most like White women. You’ve said that you don’t choose dark-skinned women. Black men like you absolve White women of any and all blame for what’s happened to Black men and instead put the blame on Black women and White men. How convenient!

    Then you come whining to Black women to get sympathy for racism.

    It shows your damage that you constantly praise lighter and White women and give them credit for rocking the cradle that made White men powerful (overlooking the racism seed that was nurtured in White children by many White mothers) yet you want to stomp on Black women and blame them for causing Black men to fail.

    I personally think that Black women need to tell Black men like you to go and whine to White women about racism. Go and get help from them. Why come to a Black woman? We certainly didn’t nurture the racism seed.

    BTW, have you thanked a White man today for sticking the super-stud label on you?


  240. This blog always comes to the defense of Black women or Black people in general, but nv Black men….


  241. Well I can’t say nv, but mostly. Like, I haven’t seen Abagond tackle any specifically black male issues in the longest…


  242. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 03:06:06 The truth speaks

    Truth B told said:

    Which goes hand in hand with Menelik’s point of Black men being the only race of men with more sexual currency than it’s females. It has nothing to do with being “sexual studs”. If BWE are going to continously confess to the world that they can’t raise what they produce, especially male children, then why would anyone want to reproduce with them on primary basis?

    Actually, I have to agree with this. This is somewhat off topic, but we as Black mothers have to do a better job raising our sons to have self-esteem and self-worth. How else can you explain the masses of Black men who openly proclaim that they won’t have anything to do with a woman who resembles their own mother? If Black women stopped enabling Black men and making all kinds of excuses to explain their behaviors before they actually become men, then I do believe we’d have less of these BWE issues that we’re discussing now.

    Which brings me to another point……………..which I personally believe the latter is the catalyst. Do you believe that the BWE movement stems from Black women having a general low self-esteem and perception of self or is it a repercussion from the rejection that many are feeling from the ones who are supposed to love, cherish and protect Black women (mainly Black men)? Or something else for that matter?

    I don’t know what your spiritual beliefs are but mine are rooted in the idea of male headship, meaning that the man bears the brunt of responsibility toward his family and society. That said, I do believe many Black men need to examine themselves, “their preferences” and ultimately how that affects how Blacks both male and female are perceived by society at large.


  243. Also, another critique I have of this blog..

    Someone mentioned something about only focusing on external love when it comes to BWE, but not internal love. When it comes to this blog. Black women’s issues are always tied to superficial issues like beauty or finding a man. Like, there isn’t anything else more important to a woman. Her life and happiness is forever centered around a man. That’s seems a bit implicitly sexist to me


  244. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 03:14:18 Menelik Charles

    @ Peanut,

    you love to ignore the fact I spend most of my time on blogs, including your’s, telling people how aesthetically superior Black women are compared with, for example, white women.

    I have never ever said Black women were not wanted: not once ever! I am surprised at your responses to my posts here really, I am! I guess I should make some quip remark here but I’ll let it pass.


  245. @Satanforce–

    I saw your comment up above but can’t find it now. Great ideas! I think your comment should be a post because those are the kind of action-oriented ideas that Black men need to discuss and champion.


  246. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 03:36:06 Truth B. Told

    @Jorbia

    Typical straw men, projections, ad hominems, and deflections, followed by a complete lack of addressing the topic at hand. Please stay on topic:

    1) what is the BWE going to do about the extreme competition for high value males, especially knowing what those high value males tend to prefer?

    2) if BM are what BWE say that are and WM are what BWE say there, then where did they both come from? Did they hatch? Did they spring up out of the Ocean? Who are the primary caregivers.


  247. @The Truth Speaks–

    but we as Black mothers have to do a better job raising our sons to have self-esteem and self-worth.

    I agree with the BWE that Black American women can’t raise their sons all by themselves. I read on one of the BWE sites where someone said that Black women in America should just stop having any children because there’s hardly any marriages or stable family units in so many cases around them. That has an impact on them because you can’t raise children in isolation. It made me think seriously about that. I think some Black women have children on a trial and error basis. I’m not going to do that.


  248. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 03:53:30 Menelik Charles

    @ Truth B. Told,

    nice to see ya back, Bro! Dont expect any straight answers to your straight questions…not that you do expect any lol


  249. Truth Be Told–

    First of all, understand something, it’s you who want to talk to me. I’m not interested in you or your thoughts. You are nothing to me. Zero. So you learn how to talk to me if you want me to talk to you.

    This is one reason why I’m turned off to men like you. You don’t know how to communicate with a woman like me! Figure out how or go somewhere and dry up!

    Now go ahead and pout and call me a few names. Be my guest!


  250. i’m not asking for black women to be portrayed as superior, i’m just asking for equality. Yes you’ve made some nice comments about black women as has abagond but you’ve BOTH also made nasty comments, which was evidenced by your comments on this page. You were the one menelik who said black women were prostitutes and implied that no one wanted black women. you’ve said that again and again how can u deny it?

    YOU KNOW WHAT…I don’t want to hear that from black men anymore if BLACK WOMEN want to discuss how we’re the last picked WE CAN DO THat, BUT BLACK men have NO RIGHT to tell BLACK WOMEN that no one wants us. Let us be the ones to bring it up if we want to talk about it NOT YOU.


  251. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 03:56:41 Menelik Charles

    @ Brothawolf,

    please, please, please, read my post again and you will see that I was paraphrasing the person above whom I quote in the very same post you responded to!


  252. “The truth speaks
    Do you believe that the BWE movement stems from Black women having a general low self-esteem and perception of self or is it a repercussion from the rejection that many are feeling from the ones who are supposed to love, cherish and protect Black women (mainly Black men)? Or something else for that matter?”

    Linda says,

    I think both.

    I’ve known dark-skinned black women who dated white/Latino men and felt validated as women because they were dating these type of guys (which is sad).

    They complained that they felt ‘ugly’ because black men would overlook them for lighter-skinned women or their parents always praised the lighter siblings (my parents did that mess).

    validation should come from within, (especially when living in a colour-struck society), it needs to come from somewhere (it should have been from home).

    If these women need a website to help them feel better about themselves, then more power to them–cheaper than a psychiatrist.

    If it’s being used to put down black men, then they need to be called out and corrected because black/brown people do enough damage putting each other down in real life (just look at this post board) no need to further immortalize the negativity in cyberspace.


  253. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:03:07 The truth speaks

    @ Jorbia,

    I agree with your assessment. women SHOULDN’T be raising children alone. However, for me this goes back to the breakdown in the Black family structure mainly stemming from the Black male. To some, my train of thought may seem old-fashioned , but I believe if we can “fix” the men first, the woman and then the whole family will fall into place. Family structure is the fabric of society and clearly the Black family unit is struggling for all the aforementioned reasons discussed in this blog.

    I applaud you for making smart choices on the decisions that will affect your future children. I wish more of us would consider how our actions will affect our family legacy. However, to those Black mothers raising young men alone, we have to do a better job instilling that self-worth from an early age.

    I mean look at President Barack O’Bama. Somehow, even his White mother was able to pull that off. Of course, I know other factors came into play with regard to his upbringing. But, look how well he turned out.


  254. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:06:51 Truth B. Told

    @Menelik,

    Thanks. It’s been a while, hope all is well.

    @Jorbia

    Actually, my original comment was addressed not to you, but to all using your comments because they so exemplify the folly that is BWE. I only replied to you because you replied to me. I just wanted you to see how you rationalize your own philosophical doom. It thought it would be mildly entertaining, but I am not pining to communicate with “a woman like you”, LOL.


  255. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:10:12 duckduckgoofs

    At all times and in all places, the men and women of every culture deserve each other.


  256. Peanut, I’m sorry this is all hurting you, but you’ve got to let what they say roll off your back. Black women are not the “last picked.” These types of Black males love to say that because it makes them feel better because they’re damaged. Try very hard not to let them hurt you or you’ll be hurting all the time just like a lot of other Black American women. Then you’ll become angry, get a bad attitude, and give up. That’s when they’ve won.


  257. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:31:52 The truth speaks

    Linda said:

    I’ve known dark-skinned black women who dated white/Latino men and felt validated as women because they were dating these type of guys (which is sad). They complained that they felt ‘ugly’ because black men would overlook them for lighter-skinned women or their parents always praised the lighter siblings (my parents did that mess).Validation should come from within, (especially when living in a colour-struck society), it needs to come from somewhere (it should have been from home).

    Linda, you are right that these Black women who clearly suffer from a low self-esteem and self-worth are mistaken by feeling validated by the affection of a non-Black man. Truth is that self-love should have been instilled at home. However, as you mentioned that is not always the case such as your reference to your parents validating lighter siblings over the darker. My grandparents did the same thing to my mom and her sisters. My mom never did this to me although as an adult I can see how father regarded my light-skin sister higher than me. My mom was the one who always made me feel proud of my dark skin and gave me the foundation of self-esteem and self-worth that I have today. I think she did a good job.

    On the other side of this though is how we are perceived by others. I don’t care what anyone says about the feminist movement or self-empowerment. There is not a woman on this planet who is true to herself (and is not lesbian or bi-sexual) that doesn’t want the affection and approval of a man. PERIOD! Let’s be honest here……..women do want and need to feel validated by men close to her. Not every man, but darn it every woman wants to be loved, cherished, protected and provided for. It’s in our DNA. Only a die hard feminist will argue with that. I’m not saying I need a man for survival, but these desires are central to the female experience. And, when a Black man rejects his own women en masse, it’s just destructive and deplorable. Again, IRR relationships are A-OK with me ans long as it stems from a general interest in the individual. Not some illogical “preference” resulting from social conditioning that White is right. I think the healing can begin if Black men admitted that they have fallen victim to this conditioning instead of acting like it’s Black women’s fault to justify their actions.


  258. @The Truth Speaks–

    However, for me this goes back to the breakdown in the Black family structure mainly stemming from the Black male. To some, my train of thought may seem old-fashioned , but I believe if we can “fix” the men first,

    No, I don’t think you’re old-fashioned at all, but why put this heavy weight job on Black women only? Then, when we fail (as we will since so much is placed on us), then we’ll have these males jeering about how we failed. Why aren’t the men expected to raised their Black sons? This is crazy. Why do so many Black Americans always cut Black men so much slack? I see them treating adult males like they’re boys their entire lives.

    For instance, why are the two of us women having this conversation about “fixing men.” That tells you that something is very wrong. No. The men should be having this conversation about fixing each other. I’m not a man. I don’t know how to fix a man.


  259. it’s hard to just let it roll off your back when you’re whole life you’ve been treated like the ugly duckling just because you’re black when in reality you’re actually attractive. It took me years to realize that I’m not ugly and that i’m actually pretty the main reason was because i lived in a white society, went to a white prep school where just because i wasn’t blonde and thin i was considered “not hot,” because i had kinky hair that wouldn’t grow past my ears because i kept relaxing it and because i was naturally built “thicker” i felt like i was ugly and my dating choices reflected that. i went to my senior prom alone, my junior year i was set up by my mother’s friend’s son…


  260. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:40:02 Menelik Charles

    Yeah, Bro Truth B. Told…all is well with me as I hope it is with you!

    Peace.


  261. fast forward some years and I learned that all that i had been taught was lies.

    I am natural now and my hair when straightened is to the middle of my back, the longest it’s been ironically i don’t like to straighten it very much at all, but before i wanted straight hair so bad that i was killing my hair with chemicals and ultimately it broke the hair off and i never got the hair anyway, but now that i’m natural my hair is in its natural straight and it’s the longest it’s been but now i don’t even care because i can say that i PREFER kinky hair to straight hair now.

    I’ve learned that I overate in HS due to depression and poor body image becuase i’m a bw who is built thicker “smaller waist, thicker bottom/thighs,” i always thought i was doomed to be fat, when really i was sa healthy weight, but i would eat out of depression for not fititng in and I lost my natural thick shape, oh but I’ve learned now to appreciate my healthy, natural shape. When at a healthy weight, i’m “thick” not fat and i love that now. I’ve sent my pictures to people, abagond seen my picture and i know i’m not ugly…so WHY THEN and how did I get the message as a young girl that I was ugly when I’m not..

    from white supremacist beauty standards and from PEOPLE LIKE MENELIK and abagond who say hurtful things that’s where I got it from…

    you can check my blog for more of my thoughts on beauty and stuff: http://blacknotwhitedippedinchocolate.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/hairdresser-tales-natural-hair-is-soft-beautiful/


  262. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:46:01 The truth speaks

    Additionally,

    I had the privilege of my mother cultivating my self-worth and pride from an early age. Unfortunately, many Black women (and men) did not have that. Particularly not the dark ones of us. We can’t get validated from the media. White society certainly won’t do it and Black men are often the loudest offenders against our worth as we have witness ongoing throughout this blog. That said, how is a little Black girl able to look inside herself against all the negativity and truly believe she is valued, beautiful and special? Many, unfortunately do not and grow up to be grown women with these same unresolved issues festering inside. Hence, the need to feel validated by a non-Black man. I think it’s a bit much to ask someone to be that strong. As Peanut alluded to earlier……Black women have emotions and needs just like any other woman. No, we are not super-women. Only some of us put up a good front to masque the pain.


  263. and i don’t want other young black women and little black girls to grow up like i did feeling like they’re inferior just for being black. it’s hard to do that when people like abagond/menelik are going around telling the world that no one wants black women.


  264. @Peanut—

    it’s hard to just let it roll off your back when you’re whole life you’ve been treated like the ugly duckling

    You “thought” you weren’t beautiful but now you know better. Peanut, you can’t take the past seriously because it doesn’t exist anymore.It’s gone. Just think about that. Just think about the present and tell yourself over and over that you’re not going to allow damaged people to hurt you. Instead, laugh them away. If you keep saying that and doing that, you will teach yourself to let it roll off your back.


  265. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 04:54:03 Menelik Charles

    Hey Bro Truth B. Told…I know your comments were NOT addressed to me. So if I gave the opposite impression. I meant those those who you asked questions of would not ever give you a straight answer!

    The more rational you are (and your are ultra rational, Bro) the less chance they’ll ever answer your questions!


  266. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 05:03:00 Truth B. Told

    The “comments not address to” portion was directed @Jorbia. I put it after the “thanks” comments I directed to you.

    Sorry for the confusion, I should have made two different posts.


  267. the truth speaks,

    “There is not a woman on this planet who is true to herself (and is not lesbian or bi-sexual) that doesn’t want the affection and approval of a man. PERIOD! Let’s be honest here……..women do want and need to feel validated by men close to her. Not every man, but darn it every woman wants to be loved, cherished, protected and provided for. It’s in our DNA. Only a die hard feminist will argue with that. I’m not saying I need a man for survival, but these desires are central to the female experience. And, when a Black man rejects his own women en masse, it’s just destructive and deplorable”

    i agree 100% yeah we can tell black women that we should base our self worth on what’s inside of us and stuff yes, but if we’re going to tell bw that then tell all women that. I don’t hear people telling white women that, but people expect black women to be “strong” and ignore all the abuse hurled at us and still come out these high self esteem having women and i am so against it.


  268. i don’t want it to roll off my back i don’t want other black girl to go through feeling unwanted/unloved just because they’re black if i can spare them that, i will and i do that by speaking against the lies.


  269. i don’t want her to think the most she can hope for in life is a mouth full of sperm and that’ she not worthy of marriage or being cherished the way other women are


  270. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 05:24:56 The truth speaks

    @ Peanut,

    From one Black woman to another…………I honestly do feel your pain. The pain most of us have experienced at one point or another or in one way or another. Although, I do caution you to cry if you have to from time to time, but PLEASE don’t let it bring you all the way down. It pains me to see other Black women anguish in pain like that. I think the whole message of the BWE movement is meant to empower Black women to explore the options they do have. I also grew up in a predominantly white society and often felt “invisible” not realizing that I felt this way because I was Black. But as sure as I’m writing this, I can assure there are men Black, White and other men who will value you for who you are. And, they may not (probably won’t be) be the majority or the most visible. I would only urge you to open yourself up to love in whatever package it may come in. This of course does not mean abandoning the Black male, but ultimately freeing yourself to just love and be free. What do Black women gain from pining away over the woes associated with the loss of or lack of a Black man? Absolutely nothing as I see it.


  271. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 05:25:05 Menelik Charles

    The most interesting thing about BWE blogs is that it attracts Black women who really deep down despise themselves…the accuse Black men like me of so doing!

    I despise liars, slavery apologists and their perverted associations!


  272. menelik you’re so insensitive


  273. and it’s not funny either


  274. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 05:37:55 Menelik Charles

    Truth Speaks,

    try never again to mention the phrase “abandoning Black men”, ok? These women, if you can be bothered to scroll upwards, are the ones suggesting that Black men have abandoned them for white, light, and Latin ladies.

    No Black man has ever suggested BWE merchants or their supporters were abandoning Black men. They have only ever been accused of bashing Black men. That said, I wished they’d cease bashing Black men and date out forever and a freaking day!

    Doubtless, the white community will accept them (their Black kids from thugs, playas and any impending bi-racial kids) with open arms! Doesn’t Peanut’s experiences growing up among these white savior/friends of colored folk teach us this?


  275. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 05:51:59 The truth speaks

    @ Menelik,

    As far as my mention to not abandoning Black males, I was simply suggesting to Peanut that opening up oneself to love in any form does not mean you are rejecting your own (as many Black men do). I said this because I have been perusing this post for a while now and gathered from several of the Black women on here that they generally have a preference for Black men (which is fine with me), but to try and be open at the same time. Thus, I wasn’t referring to BWE supporters on the whole.


  276. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 06:12:39 Melissa Jenkins

    Melenik has a love for white women and a hatred for black women. He talks about not caring whether black women date out but compares black female relationships with white men to black male relationships with white women. Talking about they are the true Romeo and Juliette….lol. yeah uhm hum. I hate your types cause they feel that bm/ww are natural and they should be together but always have something to say about black women dating out. I cant stand this guy. He has a deep seeded hatred and feeling of superiority toward black women.


  277. @ Peanut,

    Let it all out… It’s unfair that black women have to go through stuff that women of other races don’t, but lets be honest, no one ever said the world is a fair place.. If the world is anything, it is grossly unfair. Different people have to deal and come to peace with different things, most of which is not down to their own personal fault.

    Look, women need men and men do need women as well… Whatever the black woman has lost, the black man has lost as well… We’re all in this together.

    I feel you’ve chosen to take what a few black men say about black women and use it as a bashing stick against ALL black men.


  278. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 06:29:02 Melissa Jenkins

    One major change that I have noticed in Black men over the last five years is that the more interaction that they have with white or other women, the more that they seem to build up this fake sense of superiority toward black women. I have never seen this side of them before. They dont own dynasties or anything but the mere increased interaction with white women has made them downright nasty monsters. Damn being able to hang out with white women in the hands of black men actually makes them powerful in their minds!


  279. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 06:34:13 Melissa Jenkins

    To Peanut, the fact that you keep stating that you felt inferior to white women makes me want to puke. Im glad that I grew up in a black community cause we have a little more pride about ourselves. Please stop telling these black men that you felt inferior to white women because that is what they (black men and white women) want. I thank God that I KNOW that I was attractive growing up and was always affirmed. But it is that way of thinking that makes a lot of white women loving black men and white women feel good. Please stop!


  280. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 06:42:56 Menelik Charles

    @ Melissa Jenkins,

    I have a preference for white women, do I? I even date white women, do I? I hate Black women, do I? I’m surprised you didnt call me gay…isnt that what one normally gets called when one has the temerity to disagree with or question Black women?


  281. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 07:44:40 Melissa Jenkins

    With regard to the comments that wealthy white men dont marry black women that is absolutely a lie. There are definitely a decent number of movers and shakers that have married black women. Some examples:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_W._Betts This guy owned the Texas Rangers and Chelsea Piers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Ecko

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Norton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Bronfman,_Jr.

    There are more like these guys but you think they want that to get out? Oh and by the way, they married their wives when they were young. Real movers and shakers. If these guys married black women back in the day it is certainly happening now. The media just dont want you to know. I am telling you ladies dont listen to these black guys telling you nobody wants you and you are not beautiful. Rich powerful white guys marrying black women would kill some black men. There will be more happening now because now black women want white men. Of course not all rich white men want to marry black women but according to black men these types definitely dont “wife” us.


  282. I’ve just posted my BWE FAQ. You may read it here. Be warned, the gloves come off.

    http://satanforce.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/black-womens-empowerment-an-faq/


  283. @ Peanut

    Yes, I have written posts on the desirability of black women. I am a blogger. I tend to be pulled towards what gets comments. For a long time that was towards issues concerning beauty, race, dating and black women. Later it was HBD and race realism. And so on. I wrote THIS post because YOU and others asked me to.

    NEVER have I written a post where I maintained that black women are naturally undesirable or that there is something wrong with their God-given looks. Never. For the simple reason that I do not believe it. It goes against how I feel. So my position has been that racist beauty standards and so on are to blame. It is what makes sense to me.

    Most black men I know – and I would be willing to bet that most of those who comment here – are mainly attracted to black women and not just light-skinned ones either. The proof is in their girlfriends, wives and children. BWE says that successful black men mostly go after white or light-skinned women but that is just like the top 1% and most of those men are living in a white world in any case – they have become cut off from the black community in their day-to-day lives.


  284. @ dc

    I deleted your last comment. Please do not give mental health advice in your comments.


  285. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 11:40:06 Truth B. Told

    Most black men I know – and I would be willing to bet that most of those who comment here – are mainly attracted to black women and not just light-skinned ones either.

    Most of the men I know are attracted to attractive women, regardless of skin tone. And there lies much of the problem for many of these women. It is not colorism or beauty standards, it is failed hypergamy.


  286. @Truth B. Told:

    You’ll never get a straight to any of the questions you’ve posted. It would expose the BWE (even more) as the racist hypocrites they actually are.

    I remember I asked a few questions to some of the BWE on the “Black Men, White Women” post on Abagond’s blog. They are:
    1. A light skinned black woman is still a black woman. So how can a black man dating one be seen as self hating?
    2. If a pale skinned white man dates an olive skinned white woman (or vice versa) Would he be self hating as well?
    3. If white man starts dating outside his race. Is he self hating as well?
    4. What about a black woman that only dates light skinned black men. Is she full of self hate aswell?
    5. What if a black women is dating a non black man. Is she full of self hate as well?

    None have answered my questions. I wonder why!? *cough, exposing them as self hating racist hypocrites, cough*

    @satanforce:
    Great BWE FAQ. Exposing them for what they truly are.


  287. @ Agabond–

    Most black men I know – and I would be willing to bet that most of those who comment here – are mainly attracted to black women and not just light-skinned ones either.

    I don’t know what you mean by “attracted to.” Do you mean that they get aroused sexually? When I’ve talked on here about Black men selecting out light-skinned Black women if they can, I’m not just talking arousal. I’m talking about conferring better treatment on lighter women. I’m one of those lighter women. I know other lighter women. More of us need to speak out about this. We know that we get better treatment from most Black American men than darker skinned women. It can be lots of little things like speaking softer to us, willingness to help us out, thinking that we’re nicer than we are, being more protective, giving us a pass.

    You may not know it but you’re doing what Khadija Nassif calls “gaslighting.” You’re telling Black women that what they experience is not what they think they experience.

    Any Black woman of a certain age sees this preferential treatment that lighter and whiter women get. Lighter and whiter women can have the same “bad attitudes”, be fat, be loud, be OOW mothers, have bad odors, be immoral, and so on, and many Black men will give them a pass. Not much at all with a dark woman.

    The proof is in their girlfriends, wives and children.

    Yes, some Black men have darker girlfriends, wives, and children but admit that some of the time, it’s because they couldn’t get that that lighter, whiter woman that they really wanted. That’s why some Black men are bitter-because the light-skinned woman that they wanted didn’t pay them any attention.

    Abagond, trying to gaslight closes down honest communication between intelligent people.


  288. @GJ

    you sound resigned to accept this racist beauty standard when you don’t have to.

    I don’t care about beauty or beauty standards. It’s superficial. There’s too much emphasis placed on beauty and outer apperance. There’s more important things we need to focus on.


  289. Most black men I know – and I would be willing to bet that most of those who comment here – are mainly attracted to black women and not just light-skinned ones either. The proof is in their girlfriends, wives and children. BWE says that successful black men mostly go after white or light-skinned women but that is just like the top 1% and most of those men are living in a white world in any case – they have become cut off from the black community in their day-to-day lives.

    This sums up the reality.


  290. Well now let’s see here, it’s kind of funny everyone getting kinda worked up about the IRRs again. Now when it gets a lable like ‘swirl’ or a movement like BWE I kind of shy away from those categorizations. I think everyone maybe should respect you know that for example I prefer dark skinned black women, on an aesthetic level and also I guess there’s probably something else going on in there, but I certainly don’t identify as ‘self-hating’ or whatever. My black friends/coworkers typically just say ‘ok’ or ‘right’ or whatever when I say that I date black women only, and I have no problem with a ww/bm couple at all. Sometimes black women I’ve been with as friends or on dates, like, would comment sometimes ‘they’re the only black spot in here’ or whatever, and sometimes we would get some ignorant ‘looks’, usually from white men, but I don’t recall feeling uncomfortable being in a bar with all black people or anything. It really comes down to are you comfortable with people of other races, maybe you should broaden your experiences, I have chosen and certainly if things worked out, i’m single now, but I would marry a black woman, I’m a little old to have kids again, but I wouldn’t rule it out out of hand. just my 2c.


  291. There are many voices in the BWE blogosphere, some more and some less enlightened than others. With that many speakers, one can find statements that are abhorrent at some level, reflecting concepts such as: “Black men disrepect black women and thus black women should look to white men” or some other version.

    However, one of the notions that I think gave rise to BWE blogs is the notion of casting off a self-imposed set of restrictions about dating and marriage that has long been held by at least some black women — the sense that entering into a relationship with a white man is in some way a betrayal of the black community and therefore never a legitimate option for a black woman.

    This aspect of BWE is about embracing something that is positive rather than focusing on negative statements and stereotypes about black men. In fact there are many black women in relationships with white men who enjoy healthy, joyous relationships with black men: fathers, brothers, ex-lovers, etc. Most of the white men I know who are in relationships with a black woman prefer a woman who has these kinds of healthy relationships.

    Due to a number of factors, including proximity on college campuses and in the workplace, white men and black women are hooking up in increasing numbers, indeed fairly rapidly increasing numbers based on recent census data. Anecdotally I have seen this myself. For just one example, in my law firm there are three partners on my wing each of whom is a white man married to a black woman, with biracial children. One is close to retirement age, whose children are all adults; one (myself) is in the middle of child rearing, with a child in high school and another in middle school; and the third has a 2-year old and another on the way. The most remarkable thing about this is that nobody finds it remarkable at all, nor even particularly coincidental.

    In the final analysis, the truism that men are attracted to beauty while women are attracted to status will remain a truism. What is changing is that increasing numbers of white men are recognizing feelings of attraction to black women and acting on them; at the same time black women, in part via BWE style networking, are rejecting the idea that a relationship with a white man is precluded to them by virtue of a social construct.


  292. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:14:01 Melissa Jenkins

    Jorbia and Blanc2

    Thank you!


  293. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:29:01 Melissa Jenkins

    I don’t know what you mean by “attracted to.” Do you mean that they get aroused sexually? When I’ve talked on here about Black men selecting out light-skinned Black women if they can, I’m not just talking arousal. I’m talking about conferring better treatment on lighter women. I’m one of those lighter women. I know other lighter women. More of us need to speak out about this. We know that we get better treatment from most Black American men than darker skinned women. It can be lots of little things like speaking softer to us, willingness to help us out, thinking that we’re nicer than we are, being more protective, giving us a pass.

    You may not know it but you’re doing what Khadija Nassif calls “gaslighting.” You’re telling Black women that what they experience is not what they think they experience.

    @ Jorbia,

    So true. There is a book called “A Taste of Power” by Elaine Brown. She was a black panther living I think in Paris now. She was for a number of years the girlfriend of Huey Newton who is one of the founders. I read this book about 12 years ago before this colorism thing started being publicly discussed. Cause it has only started to be discussed openly. Well anyway in the book, Elaine (a beautiful light skinned, straight haired,black woman) talked about how she was astonished at how the black panthers treated the lighter skinned black women and white women better than the darker women. How they were more protective of them. She said that the dark skinned women did the real work. I found that so ironic that the most so called “protectors of black people” were colorists.

    Also, look at how all of the rappers defended Gwenyth Paltrow. If Black Panthers and rappers are protective of white women, you can forget everyone else… these guys are as black as they get.


  294. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:36:14 Melissa Jenkins

    Yes, some Black men have darker girlfriends, wives, and children but admit that some of the time, it’s because they couldn’t get that that lighter, whiter woman that they really wanted. That’s why some Black men are bitter-because the light-skinned woman that they wanted didn’t pay them any attention.

    @Jorbia

    True. A lot of black men are with dark women cause they could not get the redbone. That is why some who become successful marry white and dont look back cause they always got dissed by the pretty, light girl that they always dreamt about.


  295. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:38:30 Melissa Jenkins

    Talking about colorism is taboo like talking about racism has become. It is quickly shut down in some circles.


  296. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:46:21 deepdkchocolate

    Yes, some Black men have darker girlfriends, wives, and children but admit that some of the time, it’s because they couldn’t get that that lighter, whiter woman that they really wanted. That’s why some Black men are bitter-because the light-skinned woman that they wanted didn’t pay them any attention.

    That is the singularly most ridiculous statement on this message board.


  297. I hate that term “redbone”. A redbone is a friggin dog. And when they call women redbones, they are saying their skin color is similar to the dog’s fur color.


  298. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 15:53:51 Melissa Jenkins

    Most of the men I know are attracted to attractive women, regardless of skin tone. And there lies much of the problem for many of these women. It is not colorism or beauty standards, it is failed hypergamy.

    @ Truthbetold

    That was a very condescending comment but interesting when rich white men marry black women (and they do) they usually marry dark. What you are trying to say is that dark skinned women are mad that they cant marry up. You guys have sadly and grossly underestimated BEAUTIFUL dark black women. Just because most wealthy black men dont marry dark women doesnt mean dark women dont marry up. What an arrogant comment!


  299. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 16:05:42 deepdkchocolate

    Here U go, Vindicator..
    I remember I asked a few questions to some of the BWE on the “Black Men, White Women” post on Abagond’s blog. They are:
    1. A light skinned black woman is still a black woman. So how can a black man dating one be seen as self hating?
    2. If a pale skinned white man dates an olive skinned white woman (or vice versa) Would he be self hating as well?
    3. If white man starts dating outside his race. Is he self hating as well?
    4. What about a black woman that only dates light skinned black men. Is she full of self hate aswell?

    My responses:
    1. If a Black man is attaching more “value” to a lighter-skinned woman and cannot see the beauty of a darker-skinned woman , there is some evidence that he may be brainwashed and victimised by “colorism”, is this a preference that has developed “naturally” or is it influenced by his family or the greater society at large which seems to uphold lighter or half-white black females as paragons of beauty for the black race?
    2. Whites are united. They don’t have these problems , many whites do uphold Blondes as a paragon of beauty but white women are not usually classified or assigned value based on their skin tone.
    3.Many white men who date outside their race do have an agenda, believe it or not,some can be self-hating. There are plenty of White men out there who cannot meet a white women of the caliber they desire..And will look for a “beautiful” woman of asian hispanic or black extraction.I am not saying every case of IR is but many are.
    4. The history of blacks in america is a strange one. My mother is light-skinned and comes from a “light-skinned” family. In her day she could not bring home a dark-skinned man, It would’ve been scandalous. My mother dated a famous boxer whose father would perform a “paper bag” test on hi son’s potential dates which constituted of holding a paper bag nest to the face of said potential date and if she were darker.. Dating his son was an impossibility.Right now the paragon of being a beautiful black male is a darker one in the black community, so the possibilty that a black woman who has a preference for lighter-skinned or guichee lookin’ brothers could be perceived as a for of self-hate if she does not want to have dark-skinned progeny and there are plenty of black americans out there like this.I grew up in a family like this.


  300. Blanc2, very well said…

    Abagond , you mentioned you had thought of making this thread banned for whites ( which Im very happy you didnt do this on this extremly complex and sensitive issue) , but, I think white people, especialy in interracial relationships , have a stake in the discusion…that is my opinion, but, I would respect any request of that nature on any given thread…


  301. @ deepdkchocolate

    That is the singularly most ridiculous statement on this message board.

    Agreed.
    Now, Menelik put the bar pretty high with his initial comment regarding the alleged masculinity of Black women, so the other side can’t allow trivial technicalities such as nuance or even basic common sense to get in the way of their counter-strike.
    Sadly, I have an intuition that the worst is yet to come…


  302. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 16:58:19 Menelik Charles

    I hope you all can see now that the root of all this BWE is actually Black men’s rejection (real or imagined) of the dark-skinned Black female. Scroll up, read the comments for yourselves! I wonder if anyone on her will be brave enough to inform us who it was that first spreads colorism and hair fetishism to our impressionable little boys ‘n’ girls? Who pushed white dolls on dark-skilled little Black girls, and stalked the aisles of ‘Toys R Us’ – like an angry bison, dismissing every Black doll in sight as ‘ugly’?

    You ever heard a Black mother call a white doll ‘ugly’? Me neither: not even a cabbage patch doll!

    The first colorist most of us encountered when we were growing up were neither white men nor Black men. They were our own mothers, grandmothers, aunts: our primary socializers! They were the ones (for reasons we already know of so no preaching about slavery, please) who violated the self-esteem and admonished Black children for being ‘Black ‘n’ ugly’ and having ‘bad hair’.

    True or false?

    Now their victims have grown up into self-loathing, angry, bitter women, and now they blame Black men for all of this ish! That is even after watching years of tv (secondary socializers) in which white male controllers of this medium always place a romantic lead with a Black man who is anything but dark-skinned…and even cast clearly bi-racial children as children of TWO Black parents!

    Man, these women talk about ‘empowerment’ and yet they create a false and malevolent Black patriarchy as an opposition (are 79% of Black homes headed by fathers?) when everyone knows the Black family and community is utterly matriarchal full of allegedly ‘strong’ Black women (how often is the phrase ‘strong’ Black man uttered?). The level of dishonesty and evil these women represent is almost impossible to measure!

    They are obsessed NOT with white men (whom they actually view as potential ‘super simps’) but with Black men! This is why they prefix every damned sentence out of their mouths with some ish or another Black men are alleged to have done. Either that or their attempting to wrestle with anonymous Black man on the internet!

    Why can’t they just get themselves a white man (Asian women do very easily, apparently) and just live their damned lives?

    The answer to the question is this: because they do not seek merely romantic unions with white males. They seek racial alliances with them because Black men, as the only men they could EVER truly love or find attractive, are the only men who could, and has, broken their hearts! They seek racial revenge not inter-racial romance. This is why they seek to provoke Black men into an endless trench

    Well, that aside, Black men are not the ones responsible for you feeling racially inferior, being uncomfortable with your own natural hair. You’re gonna have to look a little bit closer to home for those directly responsible for your psycho-racial plight, ladies!

    Care to take a look?


  303. Truth B. Told said:
    Most of the men I know are attracted to attractive women, regardless of skin tone. And there lies much of the problem for many of these women. It is not colorism or beauty standards, it is failed hypergamy.

    Melissa Jenkins pitiful response:
    That was a very condescending comment but interesting when rich white men marry black women (and they do) they usually marry dark. What you are trying to say is that dark skinned women are mad that they cant marry up. You guys have sadly and grossly underestimated BEAUTIFUL dark black women. Just because most wealthy black men dont marry dark women doesnt mean dark women dont marry up. What an arrogant comment!

    Vin says:
    Wow I’ve seen some straw man and foolish responses but this takes the cake and shows just how deluded and cultish the BWE are. Let’s break it down:

    Melissa Jenkins said
    That was a very condescending comment but interesting when rich white men marry black women (and they do) they usually marry dark.

    Vin says:
    So you agree with what Truth B. Told said:
    “Most of the men I know are attracted to attractive women, regardless of skin tone.”

    Melissa Jenkins said
    “What you are trying to say is that dark skinned women are mad that they cant marry up”

    Vin says:
    Nope, you women are mad because of inane, jealous and self hating reasons.

    Melissa Jenkins said
    “You guys have sadly and grossly underestimated BEAUTIFUL dark black women.”

    Vin says:
    How do you figure that one out. Wait a minute you’re using a straw man so it’s irrelevant.

    Melissa Jenkins said:
    Just because most wealthy black men dont marry dark women doesnt mean dark women dont marry up. What an arrogant comment!

    Vin says:
    Straw man yet again. As for arrogant comments. Why does thee words people stones, glass and houses come to mind with the BWE!


  304. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 17:28:41 Menelik Charles

    @ Vindicator,

    you’ve been vindicated…but they aint vanquished yet, Bro lol


  305. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 17:57:45 deepdkchocolate

    Well, let me agree with some of the ladies posts here. I never had any real trouble meeting and dating black men growing up , however, MANY Black men made their preferences for lighter or hispanic women well known, and I do believe it was done to “hurt” Black women and devalue them. A lot of black women date “white” to avoid being treated as though a black man is doing us a favor for dating us… These issues are non-existent if u date white.


  306. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 18:21:03 Menelik Charles

    What weird logic is being employed by some women on here! How can one adopt a preference specifically so as to “hurt” someone? Either its a preference or it aint!

    Anyway, once again we have overwhelming evidence that the origins of the BWE movement lay in such women feeling rejected by Black men. Nothing whatsoever to do with their preference for white men at all!

    I say again: they seek a racial alliance with white men (in which they are silent partners) against Black men. This is why they always seek to rehash old, vicious, racial stereotypes about Black men as a group…to “hurt” them right back.

    See my logic, Brother men?


  307. Let us be honest, if men everywhere could get any woman they wanted, the darker ones would be the least desirable(in general).. That is if everything in the world remains constant except for that one thing – being able to get any woman.

    The propaganda which no one can escape is such that lighter skinned women are more desirable. I think Jorbia made a decent point even though eventually it comes down to individual choice and 2 individuals can defer. However, I think the majority would go for lighter skinned – not necessarily white.

    In fact I’d go as far as saying that the MOST desirable women are those that aren’t too dark or too white.. Think latina, think mediterranean – that sort of skin tone: Lightish brown.


  308. To go even further, Brown chocolaty skin vs Very dark Black skin in terms of beauty on a woman… We all know who will be the one desired more than the other…

    Tis the truth…

    People can be such j*rks some time but that’s how it operates… Truly black is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the pecking order.


  309. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 18:46:48 Melissa Jenkins

    @ Melinik Charles

    I would sell my own mother if people like you would p*ss off to Alaska and populate the place with the bi-racial girls ‘n’ boys you so obviously desire and envy!

    Yet I bet you would sell your own mother. And if she is a black woman, I am sure that you would sell her for less than that.


  310. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 18:52:17 Melissa Jenkins

    Miss Jenkins,

    you do a nice line in passive aggression, dontcha? Using the alleged concerns of white women as a stick with which to beat Black men.

    Brilliant!

    @ Charles Melenik

    You know that what I am stating is truth in this matter. White women look at the fact that black men leave women with kids even lots of white women. Our own President of the United States is an example of that. I am telling you what my coworker said that a lot of white women realize that they are taking a chance. Keep in mind, they have a male shortage too. There are a WHOLE lot more white women than white men and a whole lot less of those men are going to college.


  311. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 18:52:44 Menelik Charles

    @ Wilson,

    I think you’ll find that dark-skinned women would comfortably defeat lighter ladies if one removed the brainwashing and privileged attached to lighter skin. I think even light-skinned Black women and white women sense darker-skinned sisters are primordially more alluring than they are.

    Just my view…based on objective facts!


  312. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 18:56:12 Menelik Charles

    @ Jenkins Melissa,

    your co-worker’s friends (how many of them, I wonder?) alleged concerns about coupling with Black men do not a sociological study make! This is a truth you appear not to appreciate.


  313. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 19:11:25 Melissa Jenkins

    And one other thing. Not all black women are mad that black men are with white women. In fact, a lot of white women are ruining their lives by being involved with black men. Some will receive dirtier and more unhealthier treatment by black men than they would have if they would have stayed with their own kind. Some of us are laughing at white women cause we know that they are going to be dissed.

    I am just sitting back and watching and waiting for it to unfold with Kim and Kanye. Soon she will realize that he is just a grown man who is a maniac with the mind of a 12 year old child. And he will realize that she is just a white girl who wanted to take advantage of the fact that black men worship white skin and marry another rich black man. Also, she is in a rush to get married.

    THAT….will be a disaster. He will definitely marry her. She sealed that deal when she went and bought him a million dollar car. But my oh my that is going to be a big disaster after they get married if they get married! He is an egomaniac.

    With a lot of these black men, white women have inherited our problems. I see it in my neighbourhood. These white women look and know that that professional black woman down the street would not want her lame ass man who she had to buy a car and who is living with her.


  314. @ Wilson,
    I think you’ll find that dark-skinned women would comfortably defeat lighter ladies if one removed the brainwashing and privileged attached to lighter skin.

    I agree with that. Colorism is a social construct, and a recent one at that. There is no objective reason to “prefer” light skin over dark skin, especially as black folks are concerned. Beside, any individual who picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her skintone has issues, if you ask me.
    Obviously the “if” is important here. I admit we’re not there yet. And yes, to this day, I admit that a lot – maybe a majority – of black men have this so-called “preference” for lighter skins.
    But this idea that most Black men date Black women only because they can’t get a white/lighter girl? Sorry, that’s bullshit.

    In fact I’d go as far as saying that the MOST desirable women are those that aren’t too dark or too white.. Think latina, think mediterranean

    That’s your opinion. I just happen to not share it.


  315. Yes, some Black men have darker girlfriends, wives, and children but admit that some of the time, it’s because they couldn’t get that that lighter, whiter woman that they really wanted. That’s why some Black men are bitter-because the light-skinned woman that they wanted didn’t pay them any attention.

    I’ve made this statement again and anyone can go into denial again. I won’t change it. Thank you Wilson for stepping forward as a man to admit this truth.

    Agabond, you said:

    BWE says that successful black men mostly go after white or light-skinned women but that is just like the top 1% and most of those men are living in a white world in any case – they have become cut off from the black community in their day-to-day lives.

    Successful Black men can find the women they want. The truth is that they prefer Whiter/White women.

    It’s a lot more than just the top 1%. We all see this, and on the two predominantly white campuses I was on, almost all of the Black men only went out with White or Non-Black women. Yet there were way more Black women on the campus than Black men. Those Black men preferred White women. Black Americans need to be honest about this.

    The Black American women would sit around and complain, waiting for the Black men to notice them. I and the African women went out and had a full social life with White and other men. I don’t go out with White men because I can’t get a Black man. I generally prefer the behavior of White men.

    Colorism is still a taboo subject among some Black Americans. This is why some are in deep denial about it here.

    .


  316. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 20:06:15 mashiara4life

    Internalized racism is at the crux of BWE, and not all of it is about IRR. I think a lot of the movement is about taking back our destiny and not relying on ANY man to provide for the Black Woman’s happiness. We control our own destiny and having our esteem lifted should be by looking within instead of outwardly (i.e. a man, the media, etc..)

    Surrounding yourself with a group of individuals that will lift you up. Join a gym, eat healthier, start a hobby, travel, turn of the TV, read an interesting novel -theses are examples of BWE.


  317. Melissa Jenkins said:
    “And one other thing. Not all black women are mad that black men are with white women. In fact, a lot of white women are ruining their lives by being involved with black men. Some will receive dirtier and more unhealthier treatment by black men than they would have if they would have stayed with their own kind. Some of us are laughing at white women cause we know that they are going to be dissed.”

    Vin says:
    Yet BM/WW relationships are lapping WM/BW relationships. At least white women are doing a far better job at dating interracially than the so called “strong educated black woman” LOL!

    Melissa Jenkins said:
    “I am just sitting back and watching and waiting for it to unfold with Kim and Kanye. Soon she will realize that he is just a grown man who is a maniac with the mind of a 12 year old child. And he will realize that she is just a white girl who wanted to take advantage of the fact that black men worship white skin and marry another rich black man. Also, she is in a rush to get married.”

    Vin says:
    It’s funny how you don’t go on about the failed marriage Kim K. had with that white guy. Also If black men wordhip white skin then by your own “logic” you must worship white skin as well. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Melissa Jenkins said:
    “THAT….will be a disaster. He will definitely marry her. She sealed that deal when she went and bought him a million dollar car. But my oh my that is going to be a big disaster after they get married if they get married! He is an egomaniac.”

    Vin says:
    Hopefully, it will last longer than her marriage to that “oh so handsome, saviour rainbeau!
    So who’s to blame for their break up Kim K. or the rainbeau!? ;)

    Melissa Jenkins said:
    “With a lot of these black men, white women have inherited our problems. I see it in my neighbourhood. These white women look and know that that professional black woman down the street would not want her lame ass man who she had to buy a car and who is living with her.”

    Vin says:
    Bollocks! You BWE are like grown children who refuse to take responsibility for your own actions. How is it black men’s fault that black american women are overweight? How is it black men’s fault that black women have high amount of abortions? How is it black men’s fault that black women have weaves in their hair? How is it black men’s fault that single white american women seem to do a better job of raising their mixed black sons than black american women?

    Seriously Melissa Jenkins, get real!


  318. And one other thing. Not all black women are mad that black men are with white women.

    and immediately contradicts herself with

    In fact, a lot of white women are ruining their lives by being involved with black men.

    I am always amused by the fact that these BWE types are all so concerned with what black men do with their penises. If we are so beneath them, so promiscuous, and so self-hating, why bother with us? Seeing that most of the BWE women on this, and and other forums, claim to be light-skinned with graduate degrees, why are they on the Internet complaining about being unable to find companionship? I think the situation is much like in the video below:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9S6kddsPuM&feature=youtu.be)


  319. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting it exists…

    There is no questioning that lighter skinned women are prefered to darker ones. I have seen many social groups of black people(boys and girls) and the girl that most of the boys want is the lighter skinned beautiful girl within their group… She is not white… No. She is black but she has a light tone.

    @Dahoman X

    Beside, any individual who picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her skintone has issues, if you ask me.
    =============================================================

    The thing I find most amazing is how people can justify their behavior.. I for one am not excluded from this and am not talking about you. Just a general statement.

    From the above, I can say that an individual that picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her physical looks has issues, if you ask me.

    Yet you know what, it HAPPENS everyday! No one argues against it, we all put beauty on a pedestal. No one is ashamed. Beauty without character, just physical appearance. Women might as well be walking talking sculptures, just ornaments in an art gallery placed there to satisfy the whims of men. Now when it comes to, “Oh this skin tone or that skin tone” everyone is up in arms… TALK ABOUT HYPOCRITAL BEHAVIOUR.

    The thing with beauty, is for it to exist its opposite must also exist – Ugliness.

    The problem with this discussion is where the focus is… Our innate tendency as human beings to judge each other, to put each other on a competitive scale, where obviously there will be winners and there will be losers.

    For example, as some posts above imply, for black skin to be beautiful, light skin must be less so.

    Eg: From Menelik,

    I think you’ll find that dark-skinned women would comfortably defeat lighter ladies if one removed the brainwashing and privileged attached to lighter skin.
    ======================================================


  320. The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting it exists…

    There is no questioning that lighter skinned women are prefered to darker ones. I have seen many social groups of black people(boys and girls) and the girl that most of the boys want is the lighter skinned beautiful girl within their group… She is not white… No. She is black but she has a light tone.

    @Dahoman X

    Beside, any individual who picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her skintone has issues, if you ask me.
    =============================================================

    The thing I find most amazing is how people can justify their behavior.. I for one am not excluded from this and am not talking about you. Just a general statement.

    From the above, I can say that an individual that picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her physical looks has issues, if you ask me.

    Yet you know what, it HAPPENS everyday! No one argues against it, we all put beauty on a pedestal. No one is ashamed. Beauty without character, just physical appearance. Women might as well be walking talking sculptures, just ornaments in an art gallery placed there to satisfy the whims of men. Now when it comes to, “Oh this skin tone or that skin tone” everyone is up in arms… Talk about hypo-critical behavior.

    The thing with beauty, is for it to exist its opposite must also exist – Ugliness.

    The problem with this discussion is where the focus is… Our innate tendency as human beings to judge each other, to put each other on a competitive scale, where obviously there will be winners and there will be losers.

    For example, as some posts above imply, for black skin to be beautiful, light skin must be less so.

    Eg: From Menelik,

    ———————————————————————————————
    I think you’ll find that dark-skinned women would comfortably defeat lighter ladies if one removed the brainwashing and privileged attached to lighter skin.


  321. @ Abagond, sorry for the double post.. When you get a chance delete one of them.

    Thanks.. Still trying to figure out why it went into moderation.


  322. “BM/WW relationships are lapping WM/BW relationships.”

    A competition for massa’s affections?


  323. Abagond,

    You forgot to add:

    colorsevolving.blogspot.com or debates on black femininity.

    This is what i call BWE on the sly.


  324. @satanforce

    As much as I many criticisms of thugtician. When he’s on point, boy oh boy HE’S ON POINT.
    Great vid!


  325. Sad thing here is that you have Blacks who think nothing of publicly smooching all up into white azz as a way of giving the finger to other Blacks.

    LOL! Keep it up! Your oppressors know they’ve got you by the shorthairs.


  326. “satanforce
    Seeing that most of the BWE women on this, and and other forums, claim to be light-skinned with graduate degrees, why are they on the Internet complaining about being unable to find companionship?”

    Just to be fair, Satanforce, there are no BWE women on this board. No woman on this board said they support BWE.

    Most of the women here are attempting to rationalize why these black women (BWE) would participate in such a movement.

    These posts are out of hand because you men are being insulting to the very women on this board who support black men, such as Peanut, and the women are retaliating in kind.


  327. I disagree. Some of these women are not putting all their cards on the table. The best example:

    hank you. Thank you. Thank you for hipping me to the BWE blogs. Those blogs are the truth, especially Evias and Khadija.

    I don’t think that dc needed Abagond to point her to any at all

    And if Menelik wants to dis Peanut, good for him. He’s free to dumbass himself all day. But the discussion will continue nevertheless.


  328. @Satanforce–

    I am always amused by the fact that these BWE types are all so concerned with what black men do with their penises.

    I certainly don’t care about that because I don’t meet the kinds of Black men that I would want in my life anyway. But what impacts other Black American women also affects me. One of the types of behavior that turns me off to Black men is the way that Black men don’t take responsibility for anything anywhere-ever. They conveniently blame it on Black women, White men, and pretty soon, who else. That’s the pattern as can be seen in this thread. What kind of woman wants a man who doesn’t take responsibility for anything? Not me. When they are with other women, they are the same way.

    If we are so beneath them, so promiscuous, and so self-hating, why bother with us?

    Makes me wonder the same thing about those of you on this board who are all over those BWE women. Why are the commenters here their fan club since they are so deluded and full of internalized racism as is said repeatedly here? Really, some of you are like BWE groupies. :-) I’ll bet some of you probably know their husbands and children’s names, where they live, where they grew up, their siblings names, what they eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Why the fascination?

    Seeing that most of the BWE women on this, and and other forums, claim to be light-skinned with graduate degrees, why are they on the Internet complaining about being unable to find companionship?

    Never heard me complaining about companionship, but I’m a Black American woman. I’m not ready to get married but I have to keep an eye on that since I do want to do that one day. The BWE tell Black women to get themselves set up for that ahead of time.


  329. @ Jorbia,

    Aren’t you abit racist against black men?

    What you’ve just said seems to align quite nicely with what alot of people say about black men. Easily summarized by one word – Lazy.


  330. abagond the point of my comment was that you DO have a bias against Black women and YOU DO make snide comments that egrade black women, i mean just look at your most beautiful woman in the world thread…I didn’t want to go there, but the top two women are white and I know other people noticed it. Yes, it’s your taste and your opinion and i’m not asking you to change it, but let’s face it YOU OBVIOUSLY have underlying and subtle problems with Black women, even if you try actively to fight against them. I find it odd that you can’t see your own bias.

    I don’t think I’ve ever been on a white guy’s blog who claims to prefer white women where black women or asian women are in the top spots no I dont’ think I’ve ever seen that. I’ve tried to excuse some of the things you’ve said and overlook things because I do think you mean well, but you’ve got some brainwashing IN YOU too abagond.

    how can you make all these posts about racist beauty standards and questioning white supremacy and then you have two white women on the top of your list for most beautiful women…THAT is ridiculous.

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/06/09/the-ten-most-beautiful-women-in-the-world/


  331. @Wilson–

    The first step to dealing with a problem is admitting it exists…

    Once again, your thinking and comments here are so refreshing. You’re not trying to gaslight Black women and make us think that we don’t see what we see. Thank you! I could never even begin to trust anyone who tries to gaslight me.

    Despite their crushing issues, Black Americans don’t seem capable of having honest communication. Just plain sad!


  332. @Wilson–

    Aren’t you abit racist against black men?

    What you’ve just said seems to align quite nicely with what alot of people say about black men. Easily summarized by one word – Lazy.

    I’m glad you said that. But tell me what do Black American men take responsibility for? They don’t take responsibility for their role in the sky-high OOW births. I have never read or heard any Black American man say, “We are EQUALLY responsible because we have no business putting our naked penises into Black women unless we are ready to become fully responsible fathers, should she get pregnant.”

    They don’t take responsibility for their colorism behavior. That behavior is brutal for darker Black women, especially. Menelik and the many others of his ilk always blame it all on Black women and White men. I was actually shocked yesterday when you admitted that you were struggling with your colorism demons because that told me that at least you know you have a responsibility to do that.

    Black men don’t protect Black women and children, but when Black women then have to try to protect themselves, then Black men complain about Black women’s “bad attitudes” and “masculine” behavior.

    I could continue. I just don’t ever hear where any Black American man takes responsibility for anything and when anybody in the public eye criticizes them, then Black men want sympathy. Maybe I’ve missed hearing about Black men taking responsibility for some of these issues. That is very possible, but I know what I hear and what I don’t.


  333. Despite their crushing issues, Black Americans don’t seem capable of having honest communication. Just plain sad!

    This is a sweeping generalization don’t you think?


  334. @Jorbia

    “I could never even begin to trust anyone who tries to gaslight me.”

    Translation, “I could never even begin to trust anyone who tries to expose my histrionics, hypocrisy, and double standards.”

    Im convinced that this whole BWE movement is nothing but another installment of The Revenge of the Nerds, except in this case these women arent nerds at all, just unattractive. A bunch of middle aged black women whose dreams were deferred.


  335. @Phoebeprunelle

    This is a sweeping generalization don’t you think?

    Maybe “effective communication” would be best. No, I don’t think Black Americans have much effective communication, in general. Where?

    I can already predict one kind of reaction to this. Some commenters will want to attack me, instead of keeping the focus on what I said and how it might help to address issues.


  336. @NorthEastUK–

    Why did you change your name to post here? Let me guess. You know a bunch of commenters here would want you banned if you posted under one of your usual monikers. That’s why.

    I told you yesterday to stop reading those BWE sites. You’re a BWE groupie but at the same time, you hate them don’t you? They won’t let you comment on their sites because of your vile droppings. Go ahead and fill up the page with your hate towards me or other Black American women. You won’t stop me from saying whatever I want to say. Consider yourself on “Ignore” as of now. I’m sure your gang is on the way–to be ignored too by me. Go on and let all your hate hang out..


  337. NorthEastUK said
    :Translation, “I could never even begin to trust anyone who tries to expose my histrionics, hypocrisy, and double standards.”

    ROFLMFAO! So true.


  338. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 23:52:29 Menelik Charles

    @ Wilson

    you have attacked dark-skinned women and hoisted white and light-skinned women above them: You have recruited the whole world against darker sisters: you have spewed nothing but wicked lies like one of these crazy BWE perverts!

    Man, just eat glass, golf balls, or at least cease calling yourself a man!


  339. on Mon 9 Jul 2012 at 23:56:01 Menelik Charles

    @ Jorbia,

    which “bunch of commentators” would want NorthEastUK banned? And what genitalia do they possess?

    Two simple questions.


  340. @ Jorbia,

    which “bunch of commentators” would want NorthEastUK banned? And what genitalia do they possess?

    Menelik, you’re very predictable. You were protective of this new commenter last night and now you’re doing it again. I wouldn’t even try to describe its genitalia. You do it. But let’s see who pops up next. Interesting.


  341. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 00:19:58 Menelik Charles

    @ Jorbia,

    you keep accusing others of what you’re most guilty of! Why the hell do you think I kept the questions I asked you SO SIMPLE and devoid of any provocative words or phrases?

    Here’s why: because no matter how the question is put, if it threatens to expose the nonsense of your stupid assertions, you will refuse to answer it and FOCUS instead on the person asking the questions.

    Jorbia, YOU are so predictable!


  342. Menelik, has it occurred to you that this is not a court of law.You’re not a prosecutor. I don’t have to answer any questions from anyone here, except Abagond. Don’t mean to hurt your feelings, but you’re boring. I don’t want to talk to you about anything’s genitalia. Now, go away.


  343. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 00:36:12 Menelik Charles

    And you, Jorbia, are an African-American female. Mistress of deflection and self-deception lol


  344. I don’t want to talk to you about anything’s genitalia.

    I lol’d.


  345. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 02:00:10 Truth B. Told

    And you, Jorbia, are an African-American female. Mistress of deflection and self-deception lol

    And a master of projection. There are two types of BWE members. The first kind is the kind that Menelik explained earlier, those whose suffer from unrequited affection (real or perceived).

    Jorbia is the second kind and her statements fully reflect that. The second kind were never interested in black men on any level at any point, DBR or not. They have always had their eyes set on white man and his powerful place in society. They foolishly think that if they hook white men, then their status as women will elevate, mostly to that of white women (or their perception of it).

    That is why they are so invested on the creating this great colorism boogeyman. I am not denying that there is real colorism in the world, but that is of no interest to these women. That is why they are so keen on finding it everywhere, even when Black men marry dark skin women

    Yes, some Black men have darker girlfriends, wives, and children but admit that some of the time, it’s because they couldn’t get that that lighter, whiter woman that they really wanted. That’s why some Black men are bitter-because the light-skinned woman that they wanted didn’t pay them any attention.

    Black man’s colorism (real, imagined, or created) is convenient to them as it allows them to disguise the fact that they are the ones who are eliminating the opposite sex on the basis of color alone. It is projection of the highest order.


  346. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 02:05:59 Truth B. Told

    I should add that not only are they not nor ever were interested in Black men, these kinds are not interested in any other kinds of men but White men. Why never Asian, Latin, Indian, etc? Simple, because those men lack the “power” to socially elevate BWE.


  347. jorbia,

    I have to say something at great risk to my sanity. I will say before hand that when I read your comment, the words I keep seeing over and over are “I have never heard”. You may not have heard black men taking responsibility for whatever, but there are black men that do.

    Granted. There are black men that don’t take responsibility for their actions, but (and you might have made this point) black men are not the only kinds of men that avoid responsibility.

    The reality is that we live in a society of blatant hypocrisy. Some people preach about responsibility but seldom do they practice it. It is not a pathology of black men, but it is an American pathology that has existed for hundreds of years.

    I understand the hurt you have in your heart, but ask yourself something, how can you ever hope to love someone else black, white, whatever, if you have so much disdain in your heart?


  348. Basically, all I’m seeing here are back and forth arguments between people with bitterness in their hearts, the kind of bitterness that they don’t want to or don’t know how to let go. It’s like their disdain for the opposite sex of the same group is what keeps them warm. That’s troubling.

    I wonder. I wonder about the kinds of people that have influenced so much hate as to blanket most or all of a particular group as having something wrong with them. I wonder if these are the people they know personally, through other people, through the media or all three.

    It’s really sad to see this. I could blame whiteness because of it, but it won’t help any. I could blame the colonized mind, but it won’t help. I could also say that this is what “the white man” wants, but it’s useless. I know life is unfair, but for many of us here in a white racist society, it’s f*cked up.

    When will this nightmare end? Will it ever end?


  349. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 03:45:17 Menelik Charles

    @ Bro Truth B. Told,

    we may also add here that the ego ideal of women such as Jorbia is white and female: that is the basis upon which they can identify so deeply with the white supremacist agenda of the worst of white males, and from there, go on to attack unsuspecting Black men at will.

    What you have here, in effect, is the complete rejection of the Black female self because they see it as a sub-human category of the female species. To cope with internal feelings of stress these Black women split off the despised Black part of themselves (since it does not represent their white female ego ideal) and they project all of the qualities associated with it onto Black males.

    This is where the real exercise in ‘empowerment’ (or renewal) takes place: rejecting the Black self and renewing it with the idealized white self…and all at the expense of the unsuspecting Black male.


  350. BWE in theory is a good idea, but it seems that they have certain extreme standards and those who don’t totally agree with them are excluded. They also tend to look down on women that aren’t as “established” as them, ie girls from the hood, single mothers etc., instead of being more of a mentor to them.
    They turn their nose up at so many people, not just black men.

    There is a new facebook site, “Black women with other brothers”. They take pictures of different black men and accuse them of being on the “DL” based on body language. They are extremely harsh and judgmental. That is not what we as a community should do.

    They also posted a video from a non black man who talks about bm who diss bw. I do agree with that.


  351. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 04:56:27 Menelik Charles

    @ Kelly,

    the BWEs attack Black men and promote the racial supremacy of white males over them; Black men take umbrage at such ghettogagger nonsense and hit back; then the BWEs claim victimhood.

    What is wrong with this picture?


  352. @ Menelik,

    “you have attacked dark-skinned women and hoisted white and light-skinned women above them: You have recruited the whole world against darker sisters: you have spewed nothing but wicked lies like one of these crazy BWE perverts!

    Man, just eat glass, golf balls, or at least cease calling yourself a man!”

    ———————————————————————————————–

    Saying that people in general prefer lighter skinned women doesn’t automatically mean I have attacked dark skinned women. Look at the link Peanut posted, ABAGOND thinks the 2 most beautiful women in the world are lighter skinned women. Does that mean he has attacked dark skin women also?

    FYI, I think there are many, millions of beautiful dark skinned women. Sad that they don’t get the sort of “propaganda” attention that there light skinned counterparts get.

    Personally, I just think there is a huge problem with women being solely held to a physical beauty standard.. Whether light or dark. Just think about how tough it is as a man, to be judged round every corner about your “manhood” i.e. ability to deliver…

    Lets admit it, if we were always that harshly judged, black men would come out at the bottom. I think Jorbia has made some big generalizations, there are alot of black american men who try their best, give everything they have and love their family with everything they got but their is also the opposite. However, as a race, we as black men have failed.. If it is the duty of men to deliver protection to there home, there women and there children, then we failed miserably… Look at the state of the black race and tell me we succeeded. Yet we are happy to judge women round every corner..

    Jorbia is right about one thing though, nobody likes to be criticized, especially black men. And on that issue peanut is also right, I have yet to see a post by abagond where black men of any type get even the slightest form of serious criticism. The top 1% that go out with white women, guess who gets the blame? YEAH, white women, apparently they are just naturally attracted to the darkness of black men… Guys get off easy, at least compared to women as these post demostrates. These BWE women have got some major flak compared to there male counterparts. Nobody has even mentioned a word about the white guys that date them… Hahah if this was the other thread, white women would have been mentioned multiple times.


  353. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 06:41:04 Menelik Charles

    Wilson said:

    FYI, I think there are many, millions of beautiful dark skinned women. Sad that they don’t get the sort of “propaganda” attention that there light skinned counterparts get.

    Menelik replies:

    and why didnt you make mention of this very simple fact? Instead you simply perpetuated what are gross assumptions reliant on brainwashing and internal self-loathing.

    Man, your a cross between a simp and a sell out!


  354. @peanut: Thank you for the links. I started following your blog and some of the others you recommended. If you don’t take Abagond up on his offer to submit I might do it, but you’re clearly very passionate and well-informed on the subject, I’d really like to see what you have to say.

    Peace.


  355. This comment is from Laromana:

    jorbia says,
    @Wilson–

    Aren’t you abit racist against black men?

    What you’ve just said seems to align quite nicely with what alot of people say about black men. Easily summarized by one word – Lazy.

    I’m glad you said that. But tell me what do Black American men take responsibility for? They don’t take responsibility for their role in the sky-high OOW births. I have never read or heard any Black American man say, “We are EQUALLY responsible because we have no business putting our naked penises into Black women unless we are ready to become fully responsible fathers, should she get pregnant.”
    They don’t take responsibility for their colorism behavior. That behavior is brutal for darker Black women, especially. Menelik and the many others of his ilk always blame it all on Black women and White men. I was actually shocked yesterday when you admitted that you were struggling with your colorism demons because that told me that at least you know you have a responsibility to do that.

    Black men don’t protect Black women and children, but when Black women then have to try to protect themselves, then Black men complain about Black women’s “bad attitudes” and “masculine” behavior.

    I could continue. I just don’t ever hear where any Black American man takes responsibility for anything and when anybody in the public eye criticizes them, then Black men want sympathy. Maybe I’ve missed hearing about Black men taking responsibility for some of these issues. That is very possible, but I know what I hear and what I don’t.

    laromana says,
    jorbia,
    Thanks for your EXCELLENT/COURAGEOUS/VERY INTELLIGENT responses to the ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes being spewed by the usual ANTI-BW HATERS that frequent this site.

    The fact of the matter is that ALL American men are BRAINWASHED to DISMISS/DISRESPECT BW.
    ANTI-BW BM are the ONLY race of men who CONDONE/PROMOTE PUBLIC attacks on the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW (instead of PROTECTING/RESPECTING their SAME RACE women).
    The BWE movement wants BM to acknowledge that they exist because BW CHOSE to birth them and they OWE BW their LIVES/ALL DUE RESPECT.
    The BWE movement CONDEMNS ALL ANTI-BW men and encourages BW to ONLY pursue dating and/or marriage relationships with QUALITY men of ANY RACE who genuinely LOVE/RESPECT BW.


  356. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 08:35:15 Menelik Charles

    Abagond,

    its the bare-faced lies BWE perverts tell about Black men: repeating every racial stereotype I read on Stormfront, and the new lie that Black men don’t take responsibility for anything (surely these whack jobs are referring to themselves). These women are truly exhausting. Their happiness is not a concern of mine since happiness is clearly not what they pursue. They seek nothing but the extermination of Black men (I am not kidding you) because this is how scorned lovers feel once rejected!

    Meanwhile, over in the real world, loving moms, grand moms, aunts etc will continue to directly teach little Black girls that their skin isnt light enough and their hair too ‘nappy’.

    No one talks about this monstrous reign of white supremacist mentacide committed against our little girls, do they? Yeah, our girls certainly need protecting all right. And I know who from!


  357. People’s reality maps are really warped.
    There are, what less than 2000(?) professional male athletes (black) in the major American sports of football, basketball, baseball, and hockey. Most of these men date or marry black women. But the mere fact that a handful have dated, married or procreated with someone who isn’t black is enough to send some people into paroxysms of rage and deep depression.

    Similarly most financially successful (non-athletes) black men date, marry or procreate with black women. So chances are if a black woman can’t get the man she wants or thinks she deserves, it’s not because he’s with a non-black woman. Despite societal changes and media imagery most blacks still marry blacks and most whites still marry whites.

    Some people have tremendous amounts of self-hate and project that on other people. If someone really believes that the only reason a black man is with a black woman of a certain skin tone is because he couldn’t get a lighter black woman or non-black woman, well that person is messed up in the head. Darker skinned black women have boyfriends and get married just like anyone else.

    From what I’ve read here:

    If a black man marries a white woman he’s a self-hating sellout.
    If a black man marries an Asian/Hispanic/other woman he’s a self-hating sellout who couldn’t get a white woman.
    If a black man marries a light skin black woman he’s a self-hating sellout who couldn’t get a white or other non-black woman but wants something as close as possible.
    If a black man marries a brown or dark skin black woman he’s a self-hating sellout who’s a bigger loser than any of the above men because he couldn’t get anything more than what he has but he probably still wants a white woman.
    If a black man dares to express ANY sort of preference about what he likes in women he’s an entitled sexist who’s bought into the beauty myth and needs to understand that he’s oppressing women.
    And black men are uniquely responsible for all the evil in the world too..

    Jeez, people.


  358. jorbia said:
    “I’m glad you said that. But tell me what do Black American men take responsibility for? They don’t take responsibility for their role in the sky-high OOW births. I have never read or heard any Black American man say, “We are EQUALLY responsible because we have no business putting our naked penises into Black women unless we are ready to become fully responsible fathers, should she get pregnant.”

    Vin says:
    For once I kinda agree with you. However there is a major increase in single black american mother pushing around their mixed babies by white and non black hispanic men. Tell me, are black american men responsible for that as well?

    jorbia said:
    “They don’t take responsibility for their colorism behavior. That behavior is brutal for darker Black women, especially. Menelik and the many others of his ilk always blame it all on Black women and White men. I was actually shocked yesterday when you admitted that you were struggling with your colorism demons because that told me that at least you know you have a responsibility to do that.”

    Vin says:
    Sorry this is just projection in the highest order. There are plenty of black women that practice colourism as well. So stop playing the victim!

    jorbia said:
    “Black men don’t protect Black women and children, but when Black women then have to try to protect themselves, then Black men complain about Black women’s “bad attitudes” and “masculine” behavior.”

    Vin says:
    Nothing more than a lame guilt tactic. There are plenty of non black men that don’t protect their women and children. Are you going to call them out as well. I think we know answer! ;)

    Any more ghettogagger nonsense!?


  359. @ Menelik

    Never on this blog have I seen such clear and saddening cases of internalized racism. Like what Brothawolf said, it is despairing. Not to say I do not have issues myself, as Peanut pointed out, but still…

    At first Peanut had me wondering if maybe I was a bit too hard on BWE in the OP, but my view now is that I said what had to be said, that if anything I did not go far enough. If I write another post on BWE it will not to be to add “balance” but to compare BWE logic with white racist logic or something along those lines. This is just so bad and so sad.


  360. @Brothawolf–

    I will say before hand that when I read your comment, the words I keep seeing over and over are “I have never heard”. You may not have heard black men taking responsibility for whatever, but there are black men that do.

    I didn’t phrase what I meant very well. What I meant is that whenever the discussions online or in the media comes up about the OOW birth tragedy and other terrible issues among Black Americans, I have never seen or heard Black American men step up and unequivocally or strongly say, they are equally responsible. They never strongly state the male’s equal responsibility for all of these issues. If more of the younger Black males heard older, more conscious Black men tell them this over and over, they wouldn’t keep trying to put the whole blame on Black American women. More of the younger ones would know it is their equal responsibility. But when they hear only Black women say it, they think that it’s just the stereotyped loud mouthed Black women harping again.

    Granted. There are black men that don’t take responsibility for their actions, but (and you might have made this point) black men are not the only kinds of men that avoid responsibility.

    I thought that the focus is on Black Americans so that the issues can be addressed, discussed, and hopefully take a stab toward solving some of them. So why are you now talking about other men. I’m not here to discuss what goes on among Chinese-Americans.

    how can you ever hope to love someone else black, white, whatever, if you have so much disdain in your heart?

    Your concern for my love life is touching but save it for a Black American woman near you.


  361. @ Peanut

    I am not perfect yet, quite unlike the BWE black-man-bashers:

    1. I KNOW and readily admit that I am still brainwashed to a degree by white racism and am working on it.

    2. I do not bash black women and demonize them. I do not, for example, find the worst statistics I can on black women and then compare them to an idealized picture of white women. I do not repeat stereotypes as profound truths. And so on.


  362. Shady, i co sign with you, something is getting warped here

    People are forgetting that in 1968-73 or so, in the black comunity, dark skin and afro hair styles were valued…trends change, for the wrong reasons or what ever, but they changed. Some celebrity starts sporting blond hair and then the beauty companies jump on it and then the next generation is all over it

    Most people in the ghetto dont have “ghetto atitude”. The media promotes it , then, you got a lot of suburban ghetto posing going on.


  363. My computor is messing with me so I cant elaborate like I want to and Im rushing my typing…..

    But, its very hard to judge the reality by looking at celebrities. If you become a celebrity, you are in a differant world. Imagine if we became celebrities. The whole world looks at you differantly and you really can have access to things that the rest of the world doesnt. Imagine looking how we look now , and becoming celebrities and how the people of our dreams would be coming out of the wood work to hook up with us…we could pick who ever we want and go from one type to another with no problem…People lose the normal judgements of society when they become celebrities…maybe that is better…I dont know, but, it is a differant world and we cant judge normal life by what celebrities are doing


  364. Most people in the ghetto dont have “ghetto atitude”. The media promotes it , then, you got a lot of suburban ghetto posing going on.

    @B.R. this has also been my experience, although i don’t call it ghetto–in all technicality, there is really no ghetto for black Americans just working class or lower income neighborhoods and mainly these people have “middle class” values.


  365. Let me say that the only reason why I participated in this discussion is because of what I said to Satanforce the other day on his site. He and I have butted heads but I like some of his ideas. He said the following:

    =======
    “My main issue would with black women is that we, as black men, are not given a platform to discuss what we feel are issues that we may have with black women. It also seems that when black women do speak on how they are perceived by black men, the conversation almost always involves only black women, or dysfunctional black men. Any input from normal black men is ignored, or put down mockingly.

    I believe this has resulted in a backlash against black women by black men who feel that the only way to be taken seriously by black women is to act in a dysfunctional manner.”

    http://satanforce.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/i-am-not-a-battyman-part-1/
    ==========

    In the comments section there, I said:

    “The reason why “normal” black men are usually ignored is because my experience has been that Black men will say I don’t “listen” to them. I do listen but I don’t “agree.” Big difference. If I let them know I don’t agree, then the name-calling, insults, and arguing in circles start. What’s the point in arguing? To stop that, I ignore them.”
    ============

    It’s also a slow period where I work, so that’s why I participated, but you can see that I predicted what would happen. Those Black women like me who could help to take this discussion to a more meaningful level are not going to subject themselves to this.


  366. Absolutly , Phoebeprunelle

    I think of my first wife , who was from the now defunct Roger Taylor south side Chicago projects….And this woman was refined, super hip , and extremly classy,but tough when she needed to be

    I have to confess, I am letting some people down on here I should be sticking up for

    But, I cant be taking sides. I grew up admiring black women and men.

    this is a complex and painful subject


  367. @ Shady_Grady

    LOL
    Brillant & accurate summary of the opinions expressed so far.
    Thanks.


  368. @Wilson–

    I think Jorbia has made some big generalizations,

    I appreciate this because it helps me to examine my views. You have made my participation in this thread very worthwhile.

    there are alot of black american men who try their best, give everything they have and love their family with everything they got

    As I explained to Brothawolf above, I was talking about Black men stepping out strongly and unequivocally with other Black men on the OOW issue and other issues instead of blaming all on the Black woman.I think Black women are equally responsible for OOW births and they pay the high price of getting stuck with the children, living downgraded lives, and getting blamed for all the resulting failures.

    However, as a race, we as black men have failed.. If it is the duty of men to deliver protection to there home, there women and there children, then we failed miserably… Look at the state of the black race and tell me we succeeded. Yet we are happy to judge women round every corner..

    Yes, and Black men should just admit this since everyone can already see it. Instead, so many Black men try to showboat about all of the “sexual and romantic currency” they supposedly have.

    Wilson, it was so nice meeting you. I really don’t like some of your views on colorism, but you are honest and had the courage as a man to state your views even though you knew you would be attacked here. You’re the more balanced kind of Black man that it’s so hard to meet anywhere. Your views on beauty and other issues are thought-provoking, refreshing. I consider you rare. I’ve grown as a result of interacting with you here. Thank you.


  369. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 13:07:02 Truth B. Told

    Black men don’t protect Black women and children, but when Black women then have to try to protect themselves, then Black men complain about Black women’s “bad attitudes” and “masculine” behavior.

    I pity the BM here who still buy into the phoniness that is Jorbia and women like her. First as Vindicator pointed out:

    Nothing more than a lame guilt tactic. There are plenty of non black men that don’t protect their women and children. Are you going to call them out as well. I think we know answer! ;)

    She tried to dismiss this as a deflection when Vin was simply pointing out that we don’t live in a vacuum. If you are only going to analyze BM, then BM are going to fail (which is the desired effect that BWE wishes for) because no one is perfect. Without comparing and contrasting BM behavior to other males, how could we analyze something as being normal or abnormal comparatively?

    Secondly, the whole comment reeks of disingenuous. Notice how black women are black mens’ responsibility to protect and nuture when it is convenient for the BWE, but in all other times they are free to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want and with whoever they want?.

    After all, except in cases of rape or other extreme circumstances,IT IS WOMEN WHO DECIDE WHO GETS TO PROCREATE WITH THEM. IF BWE and BW are finding the results unsatisfactory, it is not for lack of their own self-determination.

    Let a Black man try to “protect” and “lead” a Black woman by telling her what kinds of men to avoid and you will see a Black man that is ridiculed and cursed out. Let a Black man try to correct another Black woman’s spawn that aren’t his and in comes the “you ain’t his daddy” head wagging, no matter how wrong the kid is.

    Blogger Rocky wrote and excellent essay on the issue.Leadership is pretty much a zero sum proposition. You either submit to it or you are independent. Does anyone really believe that the BWE want BM leadership or, if I may quote the wise Kigali, are they just looking for human shields for their own female ridiculousness?


  370. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 14:06:24 Melissa Jenkins

    Abagond you are much harder on black women than men.


  371. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 17:32:03 Melissa Jenkins

    I think that the reason that a white guy will call black women out (BWE) but not call black men out on what they do to us is that they are scared of black men. We all know physically but also mentally. It is related to white women putting black men on a pedastal. Dont have the energy to go into it but there’s something to it.


  372. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 17:48:16 sugahunnyicetea

    Personally, I feel anyone can define BWE however they want, it does not have to be the same as the blogs that are already out there or the people who are are already speaking. If people are really that up in arms, then maybe you should make your own BWE site the way you want it. Personally, what I get out of the sites I follow is that it’s simply wanting black women to make better choices in their lives. Choose better partners, delay having children until after marriage, have a good financial structure so that if they happen to not be married, take care of themselves, and taking care of their health and weight so that they can not only live long fulfilling lives without unnecessary health issues, but also be attractive to a plethora of different men. That is the core message behind BWE. I don’t see how that’s wrong. A lot of people who run BWE sites may have their own personally opinions about IR dating, black men etc. But that does not mean that everyone has to agree or follow that thinking. Arguing about these minuscule things is what takes away the power of the message, which is sorely needed. We cannot ignore the fact that just about everyday theres some new stat or news report throwing black women right into the bus. And maybe some of them are skewed, but they also have to come from some semblance of truth. I don’t know about you all, but I’m sick of all the, why are black women so xyz. And if we don’t get up and start changing our own image, the media is going to continue to bastardize what it means to be black. We live in a country where people think its okay to make fun of our beautiful first lady’s looks and weight and personality, why? Because she’s a black woman. They think its okay to throw some nonsense stereotypes on her because of the color of her skin. That is not right by any means. That’s what BWE wants to see nipped in the bud. Among many things. Sorry, but I feel a lot of you all are thinking the way you are because you’ve already lost hope. But myself and many other women in this country will never give up hope that black women will be viewed as the ladies that they deserve to be view as. And that black men will be viewed as the upstanding gentlemen that they also deserve to be viewed for that matter. But both actually have to live up to those titles, please remember. How about we stop crying about logistics and get down to business completing the dreams that many have already died for.


  373. @ Menelik,

    Read shady_Grady’s comment… However, I have also had some time to think about what you said and ok, maybe I am affected by colorism in terms of how I classify what is beautiful and what isn’t. But hey, aren’t we all affected by the propaganda in one way or another?

    I also think attacking someone on a personal level for stating their views is uncalled for… In 2 posts to me, you have called me what I can only assume to be a wimp, even though you spelt it wrong, a sell out, or rather some sort of hybrid between the 2, told me to eat glass and golf balls and to stop considering myself to be a man… That is quite a barrage of abuse in just 2 short posts, almost makes me wonder what I’ve done to you.

    @ Jorbia,

    Well, thanks. In my opinion your posts didn’t warrant the sort of attacks that were being aimed at you by some people. This whole post needed balancing out… As stated by you and various posters, BWE is about more than just 1 thing yet everyone zeroed in on that one thing… The truth is, there movement is just a symptom to a bigger multifaceted problem. I would say it covers aspects of race, patriarchy, individualism, feminism, capitalism etc. As they say, the world isn’t just black and white.


  374. on Tue 10 Jul 2012 at 18:43:02 sugahunnyicetea

    I would also like to add, that this page’s whole argument that few white men marry black women is another reason why BWE is so important. No one explicitly says that black women have to marry white men. But rather what is being suggested it that men of other races are options for fulfilling dating and marriage. Has anyone who throws this out ever stopped to think of black women’s role in this? White men on a whole do not go around announcing their lack of attraction to black women. Black women on the other hand do in fact do this. To the point where publications post articles where black women state they would rather eat dog poop than be with a white man; do you really think an overwhelming amount of white men are going to want to marry black women if this is what an overwhelming about of black women think about them? I don’t think so. In fact, many white and non black men in general are unable to date IR because black women reject them, not the other way around. To that Ex-Beyond Black and White follower, that pretty much sounds like racism to me. Because if a white man said they’d rather eat dog poop than date a black women, you better believe people are going to cry racism. Then there’s this whole x amount of black women never been married statistic. A lot of these women claim they want certain types of men but cannot find that type in a black man, and that is why they are single. BWE merely suggests, maybe if you open your race pool, you will find the rest of the characteristics you want in a man. Why is getting everything you want in a man except for him not being black considered settling but taking everything you don’t want in a man except for the fact that he is black not considered settling? That’s what the IR side of BWE is trying to figure out. I mean, people are looking at the photos of these women their their white husbands talking about they can do better. In what? Looks? Do looks really matter if they are being taken care of, provided for and treated well, and they think that their partner is attractive? Remember that beauty fades even in the most handsomest of people. But love and devotion can endure a lifetime. And that’s what BWE wants for black women. To see the majority of us married and happy, with children with fathers, instead of that being the minority. Of course black women can find that in black men, but you know what both the good black women and the good black men seem to be continuously passing each other by and having far too many wants and expectations. If you don’t want to date IR that’s fine. But some of you all need to get over yourselves, let go of your egos and really give trying to find the right person a fighting chance. Trust when I say, in the grand scheme of things none of you are that important (neither am I for that matter). But if you give it a chance, whether its letting go of race hang ups, looks hangs ups, personality hang ups, whatever, you could find someone who for them you are the world.


  375. @Melissa Jenkins

    I am pointing out that to the extent that BWE sites are holding up a picture of white men as somehow ‘better’ than black men, that’s objectification and basically offensive to everyone, including white men (such as me). It’s also not a very healthy mindset for someone trying to enter a relationship with a man.

    Again I can assure you that my wife would never put down her people. It’s disturbing if people really think that just because my wife chose me she is negative towards men of her own race.

    I am aware that *some* black (African American) men say very negative things about black women. That’s not something I condone.

    Reading some of these comments almost makes me depressed. So much aggression and so many unresolved issues…


  376. Good comments Sugahoneyicetea and Wilson

    It seems to me, if a black man wants to date a white woman and if a black woman wants to date a white man, they are held up to some kind of scrutiny in American soiety…that is the crust of it

    And I acknowledge the people on here who are saying they arent fighting , the opisite position of the others dating habits, but the implied put down of each perspective interracial dater seems to have to face…

    So people have to look back at where these atitudes started that implied its wrong to date outside of “race”…that is where the unrealistic expectations started , and where the types of criticisms started that people have had to defend

    Of course, this is independant of the racist white taboos and morals that all black Americans had to deal with anyway,


  377. @Xeelee:

    You’ve got a good head on your sholders! I agree with 100% of what you said!


  378. jorbia,

    You said, “I didn’t phrase what I meant very well. What I meant is that whenever the discussions online or in the media comes up about the OOW birth tragedy and other terrible issues among Black Americans, I have never seen or heard Black American men step up and unequivocally or strongly say, they are equally responsible. They never strongly state the male’s equal responsibility for all of these issues.”

    I know. What I was saying is that what you’ve never heard or read is law. You can not expect the media or certain online forums to talk about what you believe is important especially if they cater to a certain demographic. The media is mostly catered to the wants of white American males. And there are certain websites that cater to the wants of black American males. Those are the places where you can not rely on when it comes to balance especially if they are see have a problem with it.

    Then you continued, “If more of the younger Black males heard older, more conscious Black men tell them this over and over, they wouldn’t keep trying to put the whole blame on Black American women. More of the younger ones would know it is their equal responsibility. But when they hear only Black women say it, they think that it’s just the stereotyped loud mouthed Black women harping again.”

    I agree somewhat. The problem is more a case of adults versus kids. The older black men have a responsibility to the younger generation, and there are brothers that do go out and teach them. You may not have heard of them, but they are out there. They’re not in the media because that’s not what the public wants to see. And not online because they are out there in real life.

    And not all young black men are disrespectful to black women. There are some that are very kind and considerate to black women.

    By no means am I defending them, but it’s dangerous to generalize black men just as it is dangerous to do the same with black women. Believe me, I know there are brothers that need a wake-up call. Some have answered that call.

    Then you said, “I thought that the focus is on Black Americans so that the issues can be addressed, discussed, and hopefully take a stab toward solving some of them. So why are you now talking about other men. I’m not here to discuss what goes on among Chinese-Americans.”

    It is, and I agree that we must tackle them head on. I wasn’t bringing up other men to avoid the subject. I brought it up to remind you that it is not an exclusive “black problem”.

    The black community isn’t the only one with issues involving relationships, but if we fall into the trap of believing otherwise, it will help us cave in the white supremacist myth that black people are inferior. Then, instead of helping, we may end up hurting. That’s how far that programming can go.


  379. @sugahunnyincetea

    Youre being disingenuous. Go to any of the BWE bloggers site; read any random article that mentions black women and black men; replace black men with black women and replace black women with black men; and tell me that these sites are “merely” dedicated to black women finding love and happiness in enriching marriages with men based on character not color.


  380. @dc

    The feeling is mutual, i dislike you 10x as much. Blackwomen like you are part of the problem, not the other way around. Talk trash about me all you want, i’m not the brotha that’s causing you and other sistas pain. I don’t have any blood on my hands, but, you hate me more than the “Other Man.” Go ahead, run into the arms of your slavemaster, show your true colors sista? Abagond, the BWE movement makes no sense to me. Blackwomen crying about being mistreated and taken for granted by blackmen and whitemen both, knowing damn’ well that they’ve always been the main focus. Kissing the behinds of white feminists, yet, saying nobody really cares about them at the same token. These so-called sistas have played us like fools. Claiming to love blackmen so much, yet, supporting political ideology that actually hurts their black brothers. This issue reminds me of the Sudanese sista who was Osama Bin Laden’s mistress all these years…african sistas and brothas were killed in the Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings, black folk are dying in Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Nigeria, and other african nations in the name of Islam. Sistas like dc have no shame jumping into bed slave barons, rapists, religious zealots and what not, but Tyrone is the worst thing in the world? We’ve tolerated these fraud sistas for too long in our race, whitemen are doing us a favor by exposing them in the same way that whitewomen do in regard to blackmen. dc, Ty will never bow to no man but God Almighty…Believe It!!!

    Tyrone
    Black Eros


  381. Being an avid supporter of BWE I want to address some of the points this author makes about The BWE collective that is very genralized and misguided.

    1. White men make better husbands than black men- I cannot speak for every single BWE blogger out there, but amongst the MANY I have interacted with they have never said that white men make better husbands. What they have said is that there are quality men of other races including white that would make great husbands and they encourage black women to open themselves up to those who share their common values regardless of their race. Too many black women are so loyal to waiting for a black man to come along along men that they ignore good men of other races who are interested and want to be with them and they many times settle because of this blinded loyalty.

    2. Most successful black men pursue and marry women with white or light skin- What they have said is that Black men date and marry who they WANT black, white, asian, etc and they don’t let other people police their decisions and they use it as an example to encourage black women to do the same because when it comes to dating interracially, black women are thrown under the bus a whole lot more than black men are and that is the truth. They are accused of being “sell-outs” and other horrible names. If these black men are happy in their marriages more power to them and black women should go for the same and the so called black community should keep their opinions to themselves and mind their own damn business.

    3. The biggest enemy of black women and their happiness is not white racism, as many suppose, but black men – Again the accusation is incorrect, what many of us have said is the biggest enemies of black women are their foolish decisions to involve themselves with a certain group of black men (not all black men because some black nationalist will say I said all black men); the ones who are damaged, abusive, and are not father/husband material and their willingness to listen to the so called black community tell them to stay in or keep getting impregnated by bums so they can keep the black race populated and pigeonhole themselves and the children they give birth to into no win situations. White racism has nothing on a broken community who will celebrate Niki Manaj, Basketball wives, and raise a glass and dance to hip hop/rap music that calls black women horrible names, but will make fun of Condoleeza Rice; a classically trained, college educated pianist, fluent in Russian, who was the first black woman to be secretary of state, one of the highest positions in goverment. The same community whose kids mock other black kids who get good grades and are doing well in school as “acting white”. The same community that will encourage a black women to keep giving in and out of jail Ray Ray a chance and ignore Brad standing next to him who can provide a stable secure life for her and their offspring because loyalty even if it means her demise is way more important that her safety and security.

    4. BWE is driven by internalized racism. Opening up to dating men outside your race is one thing, but if you have to put down men of your own race to do it, something is seriously wrong. – BWE is driven by the desire for a better life and refuse to drink the kool-aid of those that tell them that they do not deserve otherwise. I find it interesting that bloggers like you say NOTHING about the slew of you tube clips of angry bitter men who rip black women to shreds and state the reasons why they would never date or marry black women. The onslaught is so bad that a white man posted a you tube clip asking black men why they are so hateful towards black women. You are not chastising black men for their abusive insulting behavior towards black women, you are strangely silent. WHY? Is it because you silently agree with it? But if a black women decides she is not going to put up with that SHE is the one with the PROBLEM???

    The hypocrisy the black community is astounding, I have watched black men and women attack black women who are happily married to men of other races with secure stable families but are very proud of their out of wedlock children and dysfunctional households. I have one colleague who had a cousin that was in jail for murder and the family was taking up a collection for an attorney but when she suggested they take up a collection for college scholarships for kids in their family and people pratically cussed her out. This is the kind of behavior that the BWE community is trying to deter black women away from, but the Blogs like this are just a smoke screen to encourage black women to stay an damaged situations by throwing the blame at the BWE circles as being the problem

    I ask this of the Black Nationalist Love my blackness Hotep it is all “The Man’s” fault collective. Where are the “Kings” who are protecting and providing for their family? Where are the “Queens” who wisely choose black men who have proven themselves worthy to have access to their body and produce offspring with.Where are the healthy whole families who are educating, empowering and elevating the future generations of children to bring new insight and intelligence into the world? When you can show the numbers then you can tell the BWE collective to go away Until then all you critics, SHUT UP, mind your own business and GET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER. A person who is broke cannot tell a Rich person Smack about financial wisdom.


  382. Kissing the behinds of White feminists??? This is why I can’t with some of you so called “brothers”- a lot of men ,Black men in this case find Black women seeking equality problematic. I think largely movements, including BWE spread out because *somebody* or *something* or a *group of people* have been disregarding their concerns and will not grant the concerned people a platform to speak. I don’t like the internalized-racism of some of the BWE blogs because it’s just as bad as those sites ,groups that bash Black women and praise White women.

    However a lot of Black males are happy with not checking their male privilege and act like Black women don’t have problems at all, or that they’re “over-exaggerating”. Or even this joke-they have it “easier”. Yeah being one of the highest groups of people to face domestic violence and sexual assault is peachy-keen. And you know the most ironic part about this is , they’re pulling some tactics White men pull when talking about racism . “Not all of us are like that!” , “Once a Black woman was mean to me.”, “All the Black men I know donate clothes to orphans on Sundays so your opinion and experience is invalid.”. The same old thumbs-in-ear treatment Whites subject them to, Black men subject Black women to when Black women feel they aren’t being treated well by Black men.

    Let’s be honest-do you want to hear from the do-good-I’m-Not-Racist Whites everytime they barge up in your grills, your personal spaces, your blogs when discussing racism with “Not all of us are like that!” or “You just HATE us!”? Well Black women don’t want to talk about that,either. How about checking the men who do Black women wrong, actively speaking out, instead of trying to talk to Black women like they are *the* problem.


  383. @BB excellent points. All these word twisters of the “Love my blackness Hotep, blah blah blah community” pick and choose the parts they want to attack regarding the BWE movement. Then the blogger of this post provides a hit list of all the BWE sites they can. For what??? it surely could not be for encouragement, sounds like a “wanted” list to me.

    Regarding Evia Moore, the first photo on this post. How many of you nay sayers are aware she was married to a black man for 26 years with whom she divorced amicably before she married her current husband? how many of you are aware that this black man had set up an investment portfolio for her to take care of her financially in case he died or they divorced and after they divorced, he kept insisting that she take the portfolio he set up for her. Even after their divorce and their re-marriages, he wanted to make sure she was taken care of. That is a MAN! he had enough respect for the mother of his children to provide for her even after their 26 year marriage ended. Her current husband treats her very well and she is settled, happy and has made it clear on many occasions she could care less about what people like you think of her. Last time I spoke with her she was not divorcing her husband and packing to move to the black community to gain your approval and won’t be anytime soon.

    I agree with BB, if these people would focus all their time on getting their own houses in order, they won’t have time to worry about what the BWE community is or is not doing. If they are doing it right then what they have should make BWE and other groups jealous of what they have and want it and truth be told, I am not “jealous” yet.

    Now go “Hotep” that and add a little more love to your “black consciousness”


  384. I’m not the most Black & conscious person, but I am sorry-I can see right through some BWE blogs and bloggers and see that they’re doing the same tired nonsense Black men have been doing to Black women-uplift their White significant others while bashing people of your same race. Does anyone not see a problem with that and do they question their partner as to why they would just grin and bare that racism. I’d just see it as them (White people) believing in those negative opinions of Blacks themselves,in their own racist way.

    Also it’s unfortunate that some BWE people are more concerned with White people’s public images than Black women being told they give the best h*ead and should just embrace the bl0wjobs by a White male rapper. I admit I don’t know much about the BWE movement , but much of what I do know is very problematic. Perhaps that is what Abagond was trying to address. I don’t know. I’m not him. It’s just sad because this same ride-or-die-like behavior BW have gone under the bus for BM, BW are doing the same crap for White men. How about not being PR people for no race of man,or any man in general-cause going to bat for the public image of White men and their wrongdoings of people of color will make you their official walking Hallmark machine. Ya’ll better wake up. Both sides.


  385. BB / Awahili are banned for using sock puppets.


  386. abagond said,

    “I am not perfect yet, quite unlike the BWE black-man-bashers:

    1. I KNOW and readily admit that I am still brainwashed to a degree by white racism and am working on it.

    2. I do not bash black women and demonize them. I do not, for example, find the worst statistics I can on black women and then compare them to an idealized picture of white women. I do not repeat stereotypes as profound truths. And so on.”

    ===================================

    MY RESPONSE:

    1. Fine, fair enough, abagond. As long as you know that you are still brainwashed to a degree, we all are to an extent, including Menelik.

    2. I’ll agree and thank you for not stooping to that level. As I said earlier I don’t like the “something new crew,” that masquerades itself as BWE They really don’t respect Black women or Black men and I find their constant blaming of black men, but ignoring white male racism to be counterproductive at best and extremely insulting, racist and stupid at worst.

    I like you abagond, I always have, I admire you. Your intellect, your scholar-like charm…you’re just great, but you say hurtful things sometimes you really do. I don’t think you realize it…it just comes off as insensitive.

    Like telling black women again and again that no one wants us or that we’re the last pick is hurtful. Even if we are the last picked, you don’t need to keep reiterating that, let Black women be the ones to bring it up if we want to.

    It’s like some black men get off on telling themselves and other people that black women are considered the bottom of the heap.


  387. are we okay then abagond? you’re not going to stop reading my stories or anything right?


  388. i am sorry that i went off on you a bit abagond. i just got upset i wanted you to understand how sometimes you say hurtful things.


  389. tyrone says,

    “This issue reminds me of the Sudanese sista who was Osama Bin Laden’s mistress all these years…african sistas and brothas were killed in the Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings, black folk are dying in Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Nigeria, and other african nations in the name of Islam. Sistas like dc have no shame jumping into bed slave barons, rapists, religious zealots and what not, ”

    i assume you’re referring to kola boof if you knew anything you would know that Kola Boof was KIDNAPPED and FORCED into a sexual relationship with bin Laden. that happens to black women a lot throughout history.


  390. i would never want to hurt any person or make them feel like their inferior or unworthy just because of their skin color, i wouldn’t want anyone to feel the way some people make black women feel.


  391. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 00:18:19 sugahunnyicetea

    @ NorthEastUK Say what you want, but I take out of BWE what is useful to me. I personally value character above all else. What I described is what BWE means to me, and how people can develop their own meaning that has nothing to do with IR or bashing black men. I don’t agree with everything on BWE blogs. In fact many of them I don’t agree with their tactics and I don’t follow them. But for the ones I do follow, I do so because I’m allowed to express my opinions that go along with the general idea of BWE as well as those that are not so in sync and I am respected none the less. I’m not going to waste my time picking apart arguments for the sake of getting upset and crying unfair, because nothing is going to be completely fair. That’s just the way life works. But what I am going to do is use what I can in order to better myself, and that my friend is what those in the biz call black woman empowerment.

    Reading a blog that say I should vet my partners and pick them wisely, that appeals to me. Reading a blog that says I should delay having children until after I’m married, that appeal to me. Reading a blog that says I should be well educated, well versed and well travelled, that appeals to me. Reading a blog that says I should eat well and exercise and take care of my body and my looks, that appeals to me.

    I’m sorry, but that is not something found on most black centric blogs. It’s mostly, black men don’t want you, white men don’t want you either. So you may as well get fat and give up. Well, I’m not about that. You pick up Essence, there’s a baby mama on the cover. You go to ebony.com, they’re like, sit down because marriage isn’t in the cards for you at any color route.

    If I listened to that mess, I’d never be happy. So as I said, what I do is take from different sources where I can find some kind of positivity, develop my own ethos and live by that. And that is what I personally think black women on a whole need to do. STOP listening to these people telling you that you can’t do this or that, or you’re not attractive to this or that person or you’re less that the other one over there. Because to continue taking in all this negativity is what will be the demise of the black community, from all sides.


  392. Heh. BWE: the PG-13 edition. One does not a need BWE movement for black women to take on interracial dating. Essence magazine and OKCupid are enough for that. What BWE would be useful for, is creating slogans and labels like DBR, NBAB and Sistah Souljah to denigrate black people with, while you stand on your pedestal wagging your finger at us. Did you really think that only “Black Nationalists” and the Black Men Vent crowd would get upset at the BWEs lumping all black people who were not them into the “black community ?” Or having their communities described as Blackistan, and encouraging black girls to learn parkour to escape from “roving bands of rapists?” Instead, you have to resort to attacking straw men like Afrocentrists (who I despise) and Black Men Venters who are no where on this page.

    Which brings me to another important point about the BWE that is often overlooked. BB claims that the American black community is anti-intellectual, and is fixated on triviality. Well couldn’t the same thing be said about North American mainstream society? It was not black people who called Adelai Stephens an “egghead.” Besides, white people have enough Man Gaga, Justin Bieber, Fox News and Insane Clown Posse to send towards their own private Idiocracy. And while it would be prurient to create a black intellectual sub-culture that makes Afro-Futuristic raps, Black Urban Fantasy, stealth/1st person shooters set in various African conflicts etc. that is not what the BWE is proposing. That’s the thing you see.

    BWE has a paleo-conservative streak, but most importantly, it is a class project. Do you think that Shaniqua studying to be a nurses’ aide with hopes of becoming a registered nurse has a ghost of a chance of being inducted into their club? How about Makiesha, doing her Associates in Info Tech online at University of Phoenix, so that she support her 2 year old daughter better? God forbid neither of them not know their fathers.

    Funnily, when confronted by actual intellectuals they falter. I can recall not just the confrontation between Dr. Goddess and BBW, but also with Dr. Mikhail Lyubansky (guess what complexion he is, and how he was spoken to) and Dr. Deborah Lee (guess what complexion she is and how she was spoken to). They think they are elite, when they are just like every other mediocre, run by other people’s emotions, unable to reason to find out who they are.

    BB never admits the sad fact about BWE – it exists only because it against black men, but if it is against something, what do they stand for? When you go to their blogs, the topics that get the most comments are the ones that go against black men. The ones that have a handsome white man or some cosmetic tips, the comments are in the low double digits. That’s not movement, that’s a two minutes hate. And their two minutes are about up.


  393. I don’t know; i kinda think people are taking limited voices on the internet (e.g. BWE and BMV) and projecting that nonsense as the way normal, healthy and hardworking black men and women feel in real life.

    In real life, black men are not about to stop checking for the sistas and in real life, black women are loving every bit of attention available black men show them. While i admit, black relationships can be a lot better than what they are now, taking advice from black people online who are narcissitic with borderline personality disorder is not going to help.


  394. They are not only against black men. They are also against any woman who don’t think, look or act like them. Lighter skinned black women, bw who date bm, extremely judgmental toward single mothers (one was a single mother and her child is all black) and you bw who are of a lower economic or social status, overweight bw, the list goes on. Those are the enemies. When I initially stumbled upon the blog, I thought it was about uplifting black women and encouraging them to aspire for more. But they seem to be very mean-spirited and hateful. That’s not what I’m about.


  395. and the *you* bw is a mistake. The you should be excluded.


  396. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 02:01:09 Menelik Charles

    Could someone please tell me one Black man on this post who has said no one wants Black women?


  397. srgtwilliepete and others deserve a post


  398. you and abagond both implied it menelik don’t lie. I’ll excuse abagond becuase he admits he isn’t perfect, but you haven’t said anything for yourself yet.


  399. I am not upset at abagond really anymore, although i still think he can be insensitive… but you’re a different story menelik because YOU said that black women were prostitutes and other horrible things…and then you said black women were jealous of other women or something along those lines, i can’t find the exact quote, but you know what you said.


  400. why WOULD you say that black women were viewed as prostitutes like we’re too lowly for anyone to want UNLESS you wanted to hurt black women?

    why, menelik?


  401. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 02:19:45 Menelik Charles

    There are many Black men who go throughout their prime years without Black women so much as giving them a second glance. Black women, like women in general, choose: they are not chosen. Try telling the freakin damned truth and cease projecting your own persona state on the masses of Black women.

    Check out this video for some home truths:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOzBUXMCaEc)


  402. Awahili said:
    “Regarding Evia Moore, the first photo on this post. How many of you nay sayers are aware she was married to a black man for 26 years with whom she divorced amicably before she married her current husband? how many of you are aware that this black man had set up an investment portfolio for her to take care of her financially in case he died or they divorced and after they divorced, he kept insisting that she take the portfolio he set up for her. Even after their divorce and their re-marriages, he wanted to make sure she was taken care of. That is a MAN! he had enough respect for the mother of his children to provide for her even after their 26 year marriage ended. Her current husband treats her very well and she is settled, happy and has made it clear on many occasions she could care less about what people like you think of her. Last time I spoke with her she was not divorcing her husband and packing to move to the black community to gain your approval and won’t be anytime soon.”

    Vin says:
    Good for her. As for Evia leaving the “black community” I say good riddance to self hating hypocrites.

    Awahili said:
    “I agree with BB, if these people would focus all their time on getting their own houses in order, they won’t have time to worry about what the BWE community is or is not doing. If they are doing it right then what they have should make BWE and other groups jealous of what they have and want it and truth be told, I am not “jealous” yet.”

    Vin says:
    Projection at its finest. If the BWE are “over” black men and the black community how comes they keep talking about and blaming black men for all their troubles!?

    Awahili said:
    Now go “Hotep” that and add a little more love to your “black consciousness”

    Vin says:
    Now run along back to massa. He doesn’t like his ghettogaggers on blogs run by black men. Oh and don’t forget to thank him for the abuse. LOL


  403. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 02:52:38 Menelik Charles

    Xeelee said:

    Melissa Jenkins, I am pointing out that to the extent that BWE sites are holding up a picture of white men as somehow ‘better’ than black men, that’s objectification and basically offensive to everyone, including white men (such as me). It’s also not a very healthy mindset for someone trying to enter a relationship with a man.

    Again I can assure you that my wife would never put down her people. It’s disturbing if people really think that just because my wife chose me she is negative towards men of her own race.

    I am aware that *some* black (African American) men say very negative things about black women. That’s not something I condone.
    Reading some of these comments almost makes me depressed. So much aggression and so many unresolved issues…

    Menelik says:

    I appreciate your sober words sir but isnt it interesting that most of the female supporters of the BWE position dont appear too keen to engage you in debate. But since you’ve used terms like “offensive” and phrases such as “not very healthy” to describe the public presentation of most BWE blogs, I cannot say I’m all that surprised lol. They’ll just pretend you, a white man, doesn’t exist

    I assume Xeelee’s wife does not comment on such blogs: she will not be welcome. She would obviously fail the battery of tests they have for potential members like the ‘I hate Black men more than you’ test or the ‘I blame Black men for every damned thing wrong you can think of’ test.

    Sad! Sick! Sadistic!


  404. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 02:58:17 Menelik Charles

    Peanut,

    since you’re the most rational and stable of all the BWE supporting posters on here, I can expect you to provide a direct QUOTE in which I said or “implied” Black women weren’t wanted!

    I can actually think of one man who made a very brutal implication of this nature but you for some reason declined to identify him.

    Why?

    Because his words support your words which always HEAVILY imply that Black women aren’t wanted!

    And you accuse me?


  405. menelik that is complete nonsense MEN CHOOSE they choose wives if they didn’t then more black women wouldn’t be unmarried that’s just a cop out completely. you are something


  406. i distinctly remember you writing that black men had high sexual capital and there are only two groups who are bothered by this…”and it aint white women or black men,” then you implied/boasted that black women were jealous of white women. It was you I’m pretty sure but i can’t dig through the comment to find it.


  407. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 03:09:41 Menelik Charles

    @ Vindicator,

    keep up the good dissecting of the Black male dissing, Bro!


  408. i just can’t trust you anymore menelik, i just feel like i can’t take your nice comments about black women seriously.


  409. No offense, but this is a depressing thread and it seems like it’s getting worse. All I’m seeing are hinted generalizations and denial of those hinted generalizations from both sides.


  410. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 03:20:35 Menelik Charles

    Peanut,

    I will not get into another deflective debate here: I asked you to provide a single quote in which I claimed or implied Black women were not wanted. Will you provide it, please?

    Thanks


  411. no ask abagond to find it because i can’t go through all the quotes and pull it up. you know what you said menelik. just admit that you have a subtle bias against black women, just be honest and admit that’s all i’m asking.


  412. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 03:26:40 Menelik Charles

    Black men do have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black women: this is a fact! It is also a fact that I have explained why their is such hostility towards Black women and why the WHITE MALE MASS MEDIA seeks to marginalize Black women in favor of bi-racial women!


  413. so basically what ur saying is black men are attractive and black women aren’t?


  414. i mean thats humiliating for you to say that black women are the only group that are considered romantically/sexually below their men? that is very insulting and i think SOME Black men are letting this go to their head when you say that


  415. u make me wanna kill myself


  416. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 03:45:58 Menelik Charles

    This was in November 2009

    Hi guys,

    I think you’ll find that whites feel kinship with Halle because she makes them feel comfortable in their own collective skins.

    My personal research conducted over 20 years (since aged 17) would suggest that dark-skinned, negroid featured Black women are the subject of a great deal of sub-conscious envy where whites, especially women, and lust, especially men, are concerned.

    The process by which this occurs is called REACTION FORMATION…GOOGLE IT!

    Anyway, the evidence thus far would indicate an underlying conspiracy to marginalise the allure of the dark-skinned Black woman, and deny it most publically by elevating the likes of Halle Berry as the acceptble face of ‘Black beauty’.

    Nothing could be further from the truth! She is merely a front concealing the extent to which whites envy and secretly lust after unambiguous Black women.

    All the evidence I possess (non of which is tainted by personal opinion) would indicate as much.

    Menelik Charles
    London England

    ps I will be writing a book on the subject in the next two years.


  417. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 03:56:14 Menelik Charles

    November 2009…Halle Berry Is Not The Most Beautiful Black Woman

    Soul said:

    I just can’t stand it when people demean other women in the most salacious of ways and then have the nerve to say they are doing it in order to uplift other women like me.

    Menelik says:

    I have to agree with you sista friend! This post was absolutely NOT about halle berry’s character but her representation, in one form or another, as a ‘Black’ beauty.

    It doesn’t take a therapist to work out that some of the sistas’ on here have issues with skin colour and their own lurking sense of self-loathing.

    It’s a real shame considering that one or two of them are really quite stunning. Still, like I said above, I’m working towards correcting matter in a book on racial envy and the psychological oppression of dark-skinned Black women.

    In this book I show overwhelming proof that bi-racial sistas’ are used as a psychic buffer by white society so as to conceal an underlying (one might say, natural) attraction for dark-skinned Black women.

    Like I say, I have the evidence over 20 years!

    Menelik Charles
    London England


  418. well then i wish you would spend more time writing about beautiful dark-skinned black women then about how we’re prostitutes/unwanted…and don’t be phony about it either.


  419. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:06:44 Menelik Charles

    May 2011…Satoshi Kanawa…Why Are Black Women Ugly?

    Blanc2 said:

    It’s ironic that, though many white (or Asian) Americans might perceive BW to be less attractive, WW pay lots of money for cosmetic procedures to acquire physical characteristics that BW often possess naturally: tan skin; full lips; curly, hightly textured hair; etc.

    WarrenAZ replied:

    your premise isn’t accurate. White women who do those things are looking to favor women like JLo and Shakira or the ideal Brazilian woman not Lauryn Hill and Malinda Williams or the ideal African woman.

    What black women possess naturally is extremely difficult (and painful) to acquire anyway.

    Menelik says:

    Warren, your premise isn’t accurate! There are way more white women seeking out, for example a deep dark tan by means which could cost them their lives than there are Black women bleaching their skins. More white women disfigure (or should that be correct?) their faces and bodies to acquire features and contours more common to Black women than are Black women doing the same in reverse.

    And all of this means they want to appear like J-Lo and Shakira?

    I think not. Whatsmore, the evidence in no way supports such an assertion. This is the work of the sub-conscious mind here, my friend! These two women are held up as a conscious means of denying what is sub-consciously desired. Clearly these women are NOT representative of white women but are a shallow version of the sub-conscious desire: Black women.

    Blanc2 was right first time.


  420. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:14:00 Menelik Charles

    May 2011 Satoshi Kanawa…

    WarrenAZ said:

    I have to disagree with you and no my premise if pretty solid. I like being black and female…The way I feel about being a black woman isn’t contingent on what white women are trying to do to alter their appearance. A white women could say the same thing about us in terms of our hair, contacts, nose jobs, bleaching, and constant dark-skin gripes.

    That is the problem I have with the statement Blanc2 made. It leaves black women open for the same critique. We should be able to celebrate our differences regardless of what other groups, mainly white women, are doing. That is like a black man who loves his blackness because it makes white men uneasy and white women horny.

    Menelik replies:

    nothing wrong with disagreeing. I disagree with you (but hopefully without being disagreeable). firstly, whatever charge white women level at Black women with regards the application of skin bleach, hair straighteners etc could easily be explained by detailing a whole brain-washing-process (stretching back to slavery) compelling Black women to behave in such ways.

    What excuse do white women have to do what they do in reverse? 400yrs of Black dominance over their people and how they perceive themselves? Black mass media manipulation, and marginalization, of the white female image?

    I think not!

    What they do is due in large part to the fact that we reside in cosmopolitan societies in which people of all races rub shoulders together in the workplace, on the street in the club etc. Thus we are constantly comparing ourselves to that which is different…and often not liking what we see in ourselves in comparison.

    White men see exactly what Black women look like (in freedom) and they make comparisons which threatens their racial egos and since the white female is the cornerstone of white supremacy the Black female image presents an enormous threat, indeed!

    White women also see exactly what Black women look like (in freedom) and they make comparisons which threatens their feminine egos.

    As a sub-conscious means of acknowledging the power of this threat posed by the Black female, white men subtract desired features from the Black female and seek to project and attach them to white women so as to displace the desired Black female in the white sub-conscious.

    The Black women produces both anxiety and desire in white men, and envy and loathing in white females. To erase the Black female norm (negroid features, dark-brown skins and shapely booties) they use the mass media to promote ‘Black’ female images which actually undermine the image of Black women and reinforces instead their own white image e.g. Beyonce, RiRi, J-Lo etc. This is why such women get play in white men’s magazines and the Kelly Rowlands of the world don’t!

    Meanwhile white men continue to suck on the breast of the nations mammy, Oprah…

    Just saying.


  421. If anyone actually supports and defends these BWE blogs, it’s because they are bigots. Plain and simple. It’s also very disingenuous to insinuate that those who are offended by such blogs are overreacting or projecting. These people would NOT say the same to dark-skinned women who listen to hip-hop and are offended at the messages they hear. Here’s just a taste:

    “Every Black Male is “Guilty” Before Being Proven Innocent”
    http://actsoffaithblog.com/dbr-alert-every-black-male-is-%E2%80%9Cguilty%E2%80%9D-before-being-proven-innocent

    “Do Black Men ‘Hate’ Black Women?”
    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/do-black-men-hate-black-women/

    (BWE woman creating a caricature of Black men and thinking it’s funny)
    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/friday-funny-introducing-lee-roy-the-trollpanian/

    “For Men How To Find Good Black Woman”
    http://interracialloveandspicebysara.blogspot.com/2008/12/for-men-how-to-find-good-black-woman.html

    I easily found these in ten minutes and there’s so many other blogs and posts. Too many for me to post outside of my free time. Even one with Evia talking about enjoying the White privilege of her husband (her exact words), that she’s since taken down out of embarrassment.

    Try as they might BWE sympathizers will try to spin their bigotry with talking points and concern trolling, but understand that genocide never starts with the oven… but with matza ball soup and tea.


  422. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:20:35 Menelik Charles

    @ Peanut,

    why the hell should I lie about how Black women are perceived throughout much of Europe? Where the hell do I flipping live: Asia? Black women are seen as prostitutes in many western European nations: especially Italy! You think my 5 sisters dont travel? That we dont talk?

    People on here peddle lies about how Black women are treated in Europe (like home coming queens) compared to America and when I correct them (as my sisters doubtless would) I’m seen as peddling the notion that Black aint wanted by men of the world.

    Well, there are some women on here who clearly do not want to be Black, and no one on here has made it an issue!


  423. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:31:22 Menelik Charles

    May 2011…Satoshi Kanazawa

    Jaydub asked?

    The underlying questions about this issue asked is?

    Do black women have higher levels of testosterone? Is this just African-American women or all African women? Do High testosterone levels have an effect on female attractiveness? Does skin color play a role in attractiveness? Media Images and black female presentations?

    Menelik replies:

    it seems like this ‘testosterone question’ is something of a red herring designed specifically to slur the femininity of Black females. Whatsmore, testosterone is on the inside of the body not the outside!

    The questions thus are: is it the case that Black women are the most clearly defined females (i.e. with their more obvious secondary sex signals such as broad baby-like noses, thick lips, small waists, relatively long legs, and high-rounded buttocks) in comparison with all other races of females? Put another way: are Black women less ambiguously female than than all other races of females?

    Also does colour/melanin cause them to age less rapidly than all other races of women? Put together, does the visibly female appearance, along with their slow ageing process, and graceful, feminine, gait, mean that Black women are the most naturally attractive females on earth?

    Just playing Devil’s advocate, you understand!


  424. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:42:54 Menelik Charles

    Abagond said:

    for a long time I have noticed that on average the black women on American television are not as good looking as the white women. There is a beauty gap that you do not see on the streets.

    Why is that?

    Because many directors and producers see black women as asexual. You see that in the kinds of parts they get – like nurses, receptionists and judges where their sexuality is not what matters to the story.

    Menelik says:

    with respect, white directors and producers DO view Black women as sexual, sensual, seductive etc and herein lies the problem. The problem is that Black women more effortlessly possess these female qualities than do white women: in or out of clothes!

    Much the same happens to Black men in white/Jewish Hollywood i.e. they are sexually neutered so as not to be seen to threaten the masculine potency of the white male lead or co-star.

    Just saying.


  425. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:46:14 Menelik Charles

    FAR FROM SAYING OR IMPLYING BLACK WOMAN AINT WANTED, I’M ALL OVER THE INTERNET STATING HOW ENVIED BLACK WOMEN ARE AND SHOW THE CONSPIRACY WHITE ELITES IN THE MASS MEDIA HAVE AGAINST THEM!

    PEANUT…DONT BE A NUT! STOP WITH THE LIES AND SLURS AGAINST ME AS REGARDS BLACK WOMEN, OK?


  426. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 04:52:02 Menelik Charles

    May 2011…Satoshi Kanazawa…

    Menelik says:

    people on here are constantly talking about insults leveled at Asian people…can they please give examples? Not examples of what are, indeed, facts (e.g. Asian women have boyish hips, flat butts) but ones in which something has been said which is demonstrably untrue, at least in general about Asian folk as a group.

    Oh, and do provide quotes if you will: thanks!

    Eva replied:

    I already provided quotes.

    Calling value judgments (“boyish hips,” “flat butts”) on a race’s physique is not “facts.” The adjectives you chose were very loaded, insulting, and for that matter were gross generalizations.

    I have seen curvy Asian women, no Asian woman’s hips are “boyish.” They are “Asian womannish.”

    Menelik replies:

    do you know what? I would rather you call me the N-word than treat me as some kind of idiot! In fact, I’d prefer you call my mother a whore!

    Seriously, lady, I’m sick of people like you ascribing to me intellectual and moral characteristic I do not posses! I don’t do idiot, I do MENSA intellect! Neither do I do untruths, I do general truths!

    You, do rare exceptions and then claim them as a general rule (e.g. “I have seen curvy Asian women”), you make completely untrue and twisted assertions and then claim them as truth (e.g. “no Asian woman’s hips are “boyish.” They are “Asian womannish.”). You do PC make-believe instead of verifiable truth.

    Now you want us to believe that you accusing me of making alleged value judgments is not in fact exactly what YOU have made regarding the physical appearance of the masses of Asian females:

    “a value judgment is a judgment of the rightness…of something… based on a personal view”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_judgment

    The vast majority of Asian women are short in comparison to most women of other races: fact. Doubtless you’ll counter with: ” I have seen tall Asian women, therefore, you are wrong, they are Asian tall!”

    I am generally right and you are generally wrong as anyone on here can testify (but won’t!). I did not make “disparaging” comment re the physical characteristics of Asian females: I simply stated observable truths! You clearly cannot handle the truth!

    Chew on these adjectives, Einstein:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081213140213AAgfZGj

    Your logic is truly appalling but your PC moralising is very much worse!


  427. Menelik Charles
    “People on here peddle lies about how Black women are treated in Europe (like home coming queens) compared to America and when I correct them (as my sisters doubtless would) I’m seen as peddling the notion that Black aint wanted by men of the world.”

    Menelik,

    after living in Germany off and on for 10 years, I will have to admit there is truth in your statements but it is not the whole truth.

    Certain countries in Europe do view black women as prostitutes, and even then it depends on the city–like Amsterdam, Frankfurt, or Hamburg–mostly where ever there has historically been a large black population, these stereotypes do exist.

    that’s why many of the people (white Europeans) are nosey and will ask you right away, “are you a student, why are you here?”

    and it mostly happens at the hotels. Once they figure out you’re a student or a tourist, then they loose the nasty attitude. Small towns or tourist towns like Heidelberg, don’t have these negative stereotypes of black women.

    These instances are few, the majority of the time, the European men find black women different (exotic), and the ones in your circle will you chase you and treat you like a hot commodity. A black woman in Europe can pick and choose which white boy will be kissing the bottom of her foot each day of the week.


  428. Peanut, I decided to take the time and go through Meneliks posts for you.

    As much as it pains me to support Menelik, I must admit from what I’ve seen, he has never said that no one wanted black women.

    To paraphrase: (and I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong)
    He said that ‘black women believe they are not wanted, so to support this untrue belief, black women put down black men and also blame black men for their (black women’s) perceived failures.’

    But here are some of his other insulting insightful posts for your perusal.

    @Menelik Charles on Fri 6 Jul 2012 at 19:43:08
    Thing is, some, or many, Black females are so masculine, so angry, they see most non-assertive, quiet, white males, as virtual females.

    @Menelik Charles on Sat 7 Jul 2012 at 15:15:54
    If you or any Black women desire to date out you wont believe the tremendous encouragement you’d get to do so from the likes of me!

    I see the exiting (you hardly leaving because, I mean, where’s the demand, and whose holding you back?) of folks like you as merely ‘house clearing’. Problem is, you just wont leave quietly

    @Menelik Charles on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 08:50:27
    Black males have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black females. This fact distresses only two groups of people and it aint white women or Black males lol

    @Menelik Charles on Sun 8 Jul 2012 at 11:03:07
    Stop projecting their (and your) filthy nonsense onto me! And look,I say again: I will sell my mother if you and your kind would date out and die off! I would even sell myself into slavery!!!! Just go away and leave Black men alone!!! Marry a damn donkey for all I freakin care!!!


  429. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 05:13:03 Menelik Charles

    You simply have to listen to this video:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1FmFZjacV4&feature=player_embedded)


  430. Uheardme1sttime had an interesting perspective about the supposed bm higher sexual and romantic currency. She said that it’s understood that out of all races of men, black men are kind of “catch all”. Meaning, most white men prefer white women, Most Asian prefer Asians and so on. But a lot of black men are less selective when it comes to dating of all races and the women know that. As opposed to black women who have the reputation of only dating black men exclusively. A lot of non black men are afraid to approach black women because of that reputation. That makes sense, Peanut.


  431. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 05:31:52 Menelik Charles

    @ Linda,

    I tell the truth whatever the damned costs! You want me to say most African-American women in live and online are feminine? I will do know such thing because most of them were and are NOT!

    Just by calling such perceptions insulting does not make them untrue. Moms work over-time to defeminize and de-Africanize their daughters! Black skin aint good enough and Black hair aint good enough for them!

    Lets really have a conversation, folks! Lets talk about the Black maternal role in the oppression of impressionable little Black girls!


  432. Blanc2 said:

    It’s ironic that, though many white (or Asian) Americans might perceive BW to be less attractive, WW pay lots of money for cosmetic procedures to acquire physical characteristics that BW often possess naturally: tan skin; full lips; curly, hightly textured hair; etc.

    WarrenAZ replied:

    your premise isn’t accurate. White women who do those things are looking to favor women like JLo and Shakira or the ideal Brazilian woman not Lauryn Hill and Malinda Williams or the ideal African woman.

    I have to agree with Warren on this one. When did a big butt become popular and coveted by non black women? When J Lo and most recently Kim K. became popular. J Lo undeniably made large posteriors popular. Also, white women tan to obtain a coppery, Brazilian type color a la Adrianna Lima, Selma Hayak. They like that Mediterranean color. Not fully black. Angelina Jolie made large lips popular. It may not be right, but that is true.


  433. Menelik,

    In your view what is being ‘feminine’ and how are most black American women aren’t?


  434. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:00:01 Menelik Charles

    @Kelly

    why are you chopping up my stuff and misrepresenting it?

    Here’s my reply to WarrenAZ:

    Warren, your premise isn’t accurate! There are way more white women seeking out, for example a deep dark tan by means which could cost them their lives than there are Black women bleaching their skins. More white women disfigure (or should that be correct?) their faces and bodies to acquire features and contours more common to Black women than are Black women doing the same in reverse.

    And all of this means they want to appear like J-Lo and Shakira?

    I think not.

    Whatsmore, the evidence in no way supports such an assertion. This is the work of the sub-conscious mind here, my friend! These two women are held up as a conscious means of denying what is sub-consciously desired. Clearly these women are NOT representative of white women but are a shallow version of the sub-conscious desire: Black women.


  435. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:10:24 Menelik Charles

    A lack of femininity is both a demeanor and a behavior. Look at this caricature of Black women PROMOTED by WHITE MEN:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9HCpX_xSCA&feature=player_embedded)

    And most BWEs ignored this image of Black women and instead focus on powerless Black males? Very lady-like, if you ask me. Certainly not nasty, evil and “racist”, is it?


  436. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:16:15 Menelik Charles

    And how about this for an overbearing, emasculating, narcissistic, matriarchal mess:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sEA5pEmM-k)

    See how reality appears to tally with the stereotype presented in the Pepsi advert? Its not very feminine is it? Femininity disarms and charms men, it doesn’t seek constant combat and endless evil, hateful, drama!


  437. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:21:22 Menelik Charles

    I see people deliberately goading me into answering a question whose answer can only be controversial because certain people will not accept the essential reality. What follows maybe anger, arrogance, lies, denials and outrageous projections.

    Some women are so exhausting because the aura they project upon the men closes to them represents their internal


  438. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:22:11 Menelik Charles

    strife and repressed self-loathing.


  439. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 06:38:13 Menelik Charles

    Black men are saying what they see. You dont have to like it:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDUR1zTklaQ&feature=plcp)

    And tto think the BWE merchant refer to Black women who defend Black men as mammies…can you believe the sheer brass neck of this projection?


  440. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 07:18:27 Menelik Charles

    abagond said:

    Menelik, never on this blog have I seen such clear and saddening cases of internalized racism. Like what Brothawolf said, it is despairing. Not to say I do not have issues myself, as Peanut pointed out, but still…

    At first Peanut had me wondering if maybe I was a bit too hard on BWE in the OP, but my view now is that I said what had to be said, that if anything I did not go far enough. If I write another post on BWE it will not to be to add “balance” but to compare BWE logic with white racist logic or something along those lines. This is just so bad and so sad.

    Menelik says:

    and I have never seen you so close to the emotion of anger abagond (it is very nearly palpable). I actually feel uncomfortable with your discomfort since you typically tend to leave the emotions to others while your views (often infuriatingly so) veers between the political correct and personal preference.

    But now you seethe, and declare a ‘gloves off’ approach to any future discussion of this crazy cult. Well, all I can say in response is that I’ve got your back!


  441. @Menelik

    So you lay the negative portrayal of black women on white men and black women. Fine. But ask yourself how is that different than from Flip Wilson, Martin Lawrence, Tyler Perry, and Jamie Fox in drag to further perpetuate the same negative portrayal? And there is an old song called Black Woman that’s making its rounds on the net these days. Here are the lyrics:

    BLACK WOMAN
    I don’t want no jet-black woman,
    O she’s too mean, Lawd, Lawd, she’s too mean,
    I don’t want no jet-black woman,
    O she’s too mean, Lawd, Lawd, she’s too mean.

    I don’t want no sugar in my coffee,
    It makes me, Lawd, Lawd, it makes me mean.
    I don’t want no sugar in my coffee,
    It makes me, Lawd, Lawd, it makes me mean.

    I got a bulldog he weighs five hundred,
    In my backyard, Lawd, Lawd, in my backyard.
    I got a bulldog he weighs five hundred,
    In my backyard, Lawd, Lawd, in my backyard.

    When he barks, he roar like thunder.
    Up in the clouds, Lawd, up in the clouds.
    When he barks, he roar like thunder.
    Up in the clouds, Lawd, up in the clouds.

    When you meet my long-haired woman,
    Just bow your head, Lawd, just bow your head.
    When you meet my long-haired woman,
    Just bow your head, Lawd, just bow your head.

    I don’t want no bald-headed woman,
    O she’s too mean, Lawd, Lawd, she’s too mean.
    I don’t want no bald-headed woman,
    O she’s too mean, Lawd, Lawd, she’s too mean.

    And the video link:
    ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0LZiTPTsxc )

    So forgive me when I say that you are asking for black women to be objective while black men are bias. There is some major hypocrisy going on here.


  442. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 09:37:34 Menelik Charles

    WarrenAZ,

    looking to ‘curry favor’ with the ‘angry mob’ are you? This is where I feel the presence of abagond’s ‘comment under moderation’ policy most keenly! So I’m gonna keep it clean: you’re nothing but a two-faced mangina who took a bloody good pounding from me in the post above, and who is now seeking to form an alliance here with those whom I’ve previously tangled!

    What a despicable simp you are!

    You say white women dont desire to be black at the level of the sub-conscious and I say they bloody well do, and whats more they envy dark-skinned Black females! I doubt no one could defend the appearance, and beauty, of dark-skinned women greater than I because not only are they aesthetically superior, they also happen to be my women of choice!

    But women – like men, need checking in their behavior, and because I do so I apparently loath dark women, eh? I’ve no doubt you’ll succeed in rallying a few Black women to attack me (the ones who really deep-down hate being Black, and who dare accuse me of hating Black women!).

    I have no control over the complexions of the women in the videos: the white man beat me to it, simp!

    I ask for honesty and courage. The BWE merchant display neither quality (neither do you unsurprisingly) so I have no idea what sort of crooked, dirty-minded deflection you expect me to fall for!

    I aint falling for it mate!

    PS this satanic moderation policy is akin to having one’s testicles cut off and forced to eat them! Its oppressive because some people are just downright evil that one feels oppressed by not responding in the appropriate manner!


  443. @ Peanut

    I understand. No hard feelings.


  444. @ Awahili / BB

    Try to look at it from my point of view as a moderator: sock puppets are bad, bad news. No matter how you cut it they are arguing in bad faith. You say you and your friend are using the same computer. Maybe that is true but I have no way of knowing that. One of my worst sock puppets ever said the very same thing. So in a case like this I am not going to take any chances.


  445. A sockpuppet that pretended that it didn’t know its counterpart, and complimented it as if they were two separate entities. Pathetic. Kind of like that 7 in 1 special over on black men, white women.


  446. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 13:01:28 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik Charles
    Black men do have a higher sexual and romantic currency than do Black women: this is a fact! It is also a fact that I have explained why their is such hostility towards Black women and why the WHITE MALE MASS MEDIA seeks to marginalize Black women in favor of bi-racial women!

    This is a very ludicrous argument that I have heard from hite and hispanic women to justify their lust for black men and yet another totally illogical argument supporting the tenets of white supremacy. Unlike most idiotic americans, I have traveled quite extensively and have yet to visit a country where Black women were not held up to be paragons of beauty, in particular. African American women. Our history and our strength is only perceived as a “negative” here in America , cause let’s face it , we were supposed to buckle under the strain of racism and oppression.. We didn’t. We triumphed , overcame and looked good doing it and we still get no appreciation from white racist america, so be it. But what is sadder is when Black men buy into this nonsense. Black men marry women from other races but they cannot escape their own pathologies..lol.


  447. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 13:05:48 deepdkchocolate

    tyrone says,

    “This issue reminds me of the Sudanese sista who was Osama Bin Laden’s mistress all these years…african sistas and brothas were killed in the Kenya and Tanzania embassy bombings, black folk are dying in Sudan, Somalia, Kenya, Nigeria, and other african nations in the name of Islam. Sistas like dc have no shame jumping into bed slave barons, rapists, religious zealots and what not, ”

    i assume you’re referring to kola boof if you knew anything you would know that Kola Boof was KIDNAPPED and FORCED into a sexual relationship with bin Laden. that happens to black women a lot throughout history.

    @ Peanut, don’t u get it? It’s always the Black Woman’s fault when we are sexually violated and abused. When we, as black women, are sexually abused and exploited that rules us out as viable partners for Black men yet Black men will form relationships with white or hispanic women who come from a family of generational abusers..lol.


  448. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 13:09:46 deepdkchocolate

    orbia said:
    “I’m glad you said that. But tell me what do Black American men take responsibility for? They don’t take responsibility for their role in the sky-high OOW births. I have never read or heard any Black American man say, “We are EQUALLY responsible because we have no business putting our naked penises into Black women unless we are ready to become fully responsible fathers, should she get pregnant.”

    Vin says:
    For once I kinda agree with you. However there is a major increase in single black american mother pushing around their mixed babies by white and non black hispanic men. Tell me, are black american men responsible for that as well?

    Deepdkchocolate says:
    No, but Black men are responsible for the white , black and asian single mothers pushing around strollers with little half-caste children in it..lol.


  449. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 13:14:51 deepdkchocolate

    Let a Black man try to “protect” and “lead” a Black woman by telling her what kinds of men to avoid and you will see a Black man that is ridiculed and cursed out. Let a Black man try to correct another Black woman’s spawn that aren’t his and in comes the “you ain’t his daddy” head wagging, no matter how wrong the kid is.

    I don’t want to “bash” black men , I am not here to do that but Black men need to raise their OWN kids , no u cannot correct MY kids in the damned street, I mean get ur priorities straight. With the amount of Black children out there that have 0 access to their daddies black men are upset about not being “leaders” and want to have the right to chastise OTHERS kids in the streets? lol.Raise ur own kids..Be a father to ur own kids cause if u don’t u have NO right to lament the decaying social values of this society. Sorry.


  450. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 13:23:52 deepdkchocolate

    No Black man in history in the US has been able to prevent white males from violating our female folk. This is fact. White men are free to take what they desire. They did. Fact.

    They desire to marry and date white women 1st (quite naturally) Asian women 2nd, Latin women 3rd, ‘other’ women 4th and Black women 5th. Some Black women feel like leftovers…from Black men. They have to settle for white men who are prepared to settle for them.

    The above is a post from Menelik Charles..

    Deepdkchocolate:
    Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation. That is weakness. I feel many Black men are intrinsically weak and should go forth and give their weakened bloodlines to the enemy.
    “shrugs” I would not want that weak-ass blood infecting my bloodlines.And ur destiny should be going forth and bolstering the defective bloodlines of ur enemies, so we all know u r the enemy as well. “shrugs”..lol.


  451. Forgive me if someone hs already touched on this; these threads are very long. I think that many earlier posts miss one of the core reasons for the BWE “movement.” It’s not some “alliance” formed with white men to demean black men. It’s just not that complicated. It is an attempt by black women to have their BEAUTY and worth formally acknowledged and celebrated. How better to do it than to date and marry the elusive white male? This is a direct result of the increase in bm/wf relationships. We are increasingly being rejected by black men in favor of non-black women. Add in the vitriolic hatred that black entertainers have unleashed against us and it’s easy to see why this is happening. You guys have no idea how much women want to be thought of as beautiful, feminine and worthy of attention. It’s in any normal woman’s DNA.

    On another note, an earlier poster mentioned that black men have more “romantic and sexual” currency than black women. That’s just because of the whole Mandingo, hip hop, baller culture thing. Black men are currently in fashion. So what? If we’re talking about currency, the green kind is the only kind that really matters. We know that black women out earn black men in America. We also know that white men out earn everybody. Hmmmm. A match made in heaven, perhaps? Let the white women scramble around for child support for a change. Let’s see then how far a brotha’s sexual and romantic currency will take him.


  452. there you go again menelik, reality tv is not real so i don’t know why you put that bridezilla reality clip up…telling people black american women are masculine is so ignorant.


  453. @ Peanut,

    The only thing i will say in this thread (because it is a Black topic, instead of an interracial topic) is to your comment about wanting to kill yourself. I am only assuming that you meant that comment. I hope that you know that everyone here appreciates you and wants to hear what you have to think, feel, express, etc. You are valued by us for who you are. Simply put.

    Please look towards the ton of beautiful dark chocolate women out there. Beauty is every race and every appearance.


  454. and if you actually took some time to look at the other websites you would see that the beauty hierarchy is just ONE small example of racism, that’s just the tip of the iceberg the main thing is that black women aren’t valued and our lack of value in terms of beauty is the tip of the iceberg. In this society beauty=white or close to white and that’s why when you have women going missing or women who are poor or women who are single mothers women who are considerd “beautiful” are more likely to be helped by society because in this racist society we value beauty and beauty=white

    so black women being on the bottom means that our value is low and we’re nto considered valued enough for equal treatment in employment, marriage, health care. On the BWE site that I go to they talk OFTEN about Black women being the FASTEST growing group for incarceration and this is due LARGELY to non-violent crimes and increased focus on drug related crimes. There are entire books about this and then black women are getting sexually assaulted in prisons under the radar, this imprisonment is something that affects black people and the reason black women are going to prison for LONGER periods of time for committing the same crimes as white women is beaucse WE ARE NOT VALUED…the beauty is just ONE THING that represents that.


  455. menelik you know what just based off of your comments are completely insulting and you’re comments make you sound like a BIG JERK!!! I CAN’T STAND READING YOUR NASTY COMMENTS ABOUT BLACK WOMEN BEING MASCULINE!!! I HOPE ALL THE NASTINESS YOU PUT ON BLACK WOMEN COMES BACK ON YOU FULL FORCE!!!


  456. Black men have higher SEXUAL currency, but certainly not romantic currency. Black men aren’t known for being romantic, good boyfriends, good fathers, good providers, etc, but are literally known for having big penises.

    I can’t believe that is something some black men take pride in. I guess there isn’t much else to be prideful of, eh?


  457. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 14:21:02 deepdkchocolate

    On another note, an earlier poster mentioned that black men have more “romantic and sexual” currency than black women. That’s just because of the whole Mandingo, hip hop, baller culture thing. Black men are currently in fashion. So what? If we’re talking about currency, the green kind is the only kind that really matters. We know that black women out earn black men in America. We also know that white men out earn everybody. Hmmmm. A match made in heaven, perhaps? Let the white women scramble around for child support for a change. Let’s see then how far a brotha’s sexual and romantic currency will take him.

    And even with all that pseudo-culture created by the black man’s enemy , Black women’s carte-blanche is so much higher. We are feared , we are desired, we have a nation of millions trying to hold us back.. Hollywood and the media at large ignores or vilifies us because they fear us , the so-called paragon of beauty in the world , the white woman is so jealous of us they covet everything and I mean everyting we have from our men to our children to our physical characteristics, I mean.. Please. It seems as though our own men fear and are jealous of us.”shrugs”.


  458. I don’t think that white women subconsciously want to be completely black or dark. I equate their desire to be “exotic” to traveling. Most Americans who travel to very exotic locales, such as India, want to do so from a distance. They want to experience the exotic culture, without being totally submersed in it. They want to tour the local neighborhoods, but then have the option of going back to their 5 star hotels at the end of the day. This analogy applies to a ww appearance. They want to look more exotic then themselves, without being too much so. That’s why biracial women are so appealing to a lot of people. They are the happy medium.


  459. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 14:27:07 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik Charles
    @ Peanut,

    why the hell should I lie about how Black women are perceived throughout much of Europe? Where the hell do I flipping live: Asia? Black women are seen as prostitutes in many western European nations: especially Italy! You think my 5 sisters dont travel? That we dont talk?

    People on here peddle lies about how Black women are treated in Europe (like home coming queens) compared to America and when I correct them (as my sisters doubtless would) I’m seen as peddling the notion that Black aint wanted by men of the world.

    Well, there are some women on here who clearly do not want to be Black, and no one on here has made it an issue!

    @ Menelik, I lived in europe for many years, France, Switzerland, Austria etc. When I lived in Normandy men used to travel hundreds of miles to meet me and some GF’s who lived with me who happened to be from Ethiopia. We were given free lodging in a hamlet so we would not leave.. Men would take me home to meet their mothers on the first date.
    I was treated like a Queen. No lie.


  460. menelik says,

    “Well, there are some women on here who clearly do not want to be Black, and no one on here has made it an issue!”

    I HOPE you’re not talking about me, I never said I didn’t want to be black, I said I had problems with my hair growing up, but I don’t even feel that way I LOVE AND PREFER my Black, african hair now…so I KNOW you’re not talking about me.

    I’ll come back to the rest of your comments later i have to go to work!


  461. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 14:44:41 deepdkchocolate

    Melissa Jenkins said:
    “I am just sitting back and watching and waiting for it to unfold with Kim and Kanye. Soon she will realize that he is just a grown man who is a maniac with the mind of a 12 year old child. And he will realize that she is just a white girl who wanted to take advantage of the fact that black men worship white skin and marry another rich black man. Also, she is in a rush to get married.”

    Vin says:
    It’s funny how you don’t go on about the failed marriage Kim K. had with that white guy. Also If black men wordhip white skin then by your own “logic” you must worship white skin as well. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Kris Humphries is not white.. He is what u people here call, “Bi-racial” his father is a black man. And Vin, Kanye West has admitted to worshipping lighter women referring to bi-racial women as mutts and stating that they were better for use in music videos since the black race happens to idealise lighter women. He is also a pawn of “the elite” who seem to promote the ol’ black men-white women paradigm with zeal. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was “ordered” to take on Kim Kardashian by his elite handlers.


  462. Marriage is such a scam. People see it as so positive when all it is a remnant of more primitive times. Almost ALL the White couples I know are divorced. The rest are miserable and try to stick together for the children. Sure, White people get married more, but how long does it last? What is the quality? Most last less than 5 years. What a joke. Humans have so many issues to work on (read: remove) such as racism, religion, and marriage in order to properly evolve. We need a strong leader to forcible cleanse these elements since most people will be highly resistant to change. With the technology levels as they are now, it’s simply too dangerous to be this dumb.

    Humans, tighten up your game, brah!


  463. It is of course untrue that black men never organized to protect black women from what they saw as exploitation, primarily but not exclusively from white male rape or prostitution, sexual harassment of home workers, etc.

    One of the primary tenets of the NOI as well as forerunners or rival organizations was specifically that black women should be protected and cherished. This theme can be found in organizations and individuals going all the way back to African Blood Brotherhood, UNIA, Deacons of Defense, Robert F. Williams etc…So basically anyone who says that black men NEVER made this a priority is either completely ignorant of history or is deliberately spreading misinformation out of pure malice.

    We can all have our own interpretations but facts are facts.


  464. “Menelik, I lived in europe for many years, France, Switzerland, Austria etc. When I lived in Normandy men used to travel hundreds of miles to meet me and some GF’s who lived with me who happened to be from Ethiopia. We were given free lodging in a hamlet so we would not leave.. Men would take me home to meet their mothers on the first date.
    I was treated like a Queen. No lie.”

    I agree. I think that it is a misnomer that black women aren’t desired. I live in the US and meet men from all backgrounds, especially Indian. I often discuss these very issues with them to get their views. The responses are very interesting.

    Deepdkchocolate, I also agree that bm benefit from positive masculine stereotypes (mandigo, baller). Uheardme1sttime had an interesting perspective about bm being open to date all races, a “catch all”, so that is why you may see a lot with more of the women that men in their race don’t date as much. I will see if I”m able to find that video. She made a lot of sense.


  465. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 15:55:23 deepdkchocolate

    I agree. I think that it is a misnomer that black women aren’t desired. I live in the US and meet men from all backgrounds, especially Indian. I often discuss these very issues with them to get their views. The responses are very interesting.

    @ Kelly: I am also pursued by many east indian and middle-eastern men.The very men many whites claim aren’t interested in black women.

    Deepdkchocolate, I also agree that bm benefit from positive masculine stereotypes (mandigo, baller). Uheardme1sttime had an interesting
    perspective about bm being open to date all races, a “catch all”, so that is why you may see a lot with more of the women that men in their race don’t date as much. I will see if I”m able to find that video. She made a lot of sense.

    @ Kelly:Do they really benefit from that? To be objectified as a “sexual” toy? It is very difficult to be perceived as an fully-dimensional being when u have to battle all these stereotypes being foisted upon U.And I really feel that all types of women are open to pursuing black men same with black women , I have always dated on a global level. so..


  466. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 16:11:15 deepdkchocolate

    Melanie
    Black men have higher SEXUAL currency, but certainly not romantic currency. Black men aren’t known for being romantic, good boyfriends, good fathers, good providers, etc, but are literally known for having big penises.

    I can’t believe that is something some black men take pride in. I guess there isn’t much else to be prideful of, eh?

    @ Melanie, I would have to disagree with that statement. Black men are seen as the entire package and many women of other races are very envious of Black women who have a Black man’s devotion.


  467. Jasmin said:
    “Forgive me if someone hs already touched on this; these threads are very long. I think that many earlier posts miss one of the core reasons for the BWE “movement.” It’s not some “alliance” formed with white men to demean black men. It’s just not that complicated. It is an attempt by black women to have their BEAUTY and worth formally acknowledged and celebrated. How better to do it than to date and marry the elusive white male? This is a direct result of the increase in bm/wf relationships. We are increasingly being rejected by black men in favor of non-black women. Add in the vitriolic hatred that black entertainers have unleashed against us and it’s easy to see why this is happening. You guys have no idea how much women want to be thought of as beautiful, feminine and worthy of attention. It’s in any normal woman’s DNA.”

    Vin says:
    My heart bleeds! (major sarcasm) Now cry me a river!

    Jasmin said:
    “On another note, an earlier poster mentioned that black men have more “romantic and sexual” currency than black women. That’s just because of the whole Mandingo, hip hop, baller culture thing. Black men are currently in fashion. So what? If we’re talking about currency, the green kind is the only kind that really matters. We know that black women out earn black men in America. We also know that white men out earn everybody. Hmmmm. A match made in heaven, perhaps? Let the white women scramble around for child support for a change. Let’s see then how far a brotha’s sexual and romantic currency will take him.”

    Vin says:
    Wow the more the ghettogagger crew talk, the more they expose themselves as the mercenaries they actually are.
    There are far more rich black american men than black american women. Also white american men benifit from damn near owning the American media so they can produce their propoganda about how white american men are so perfect. To bad America (especially White America) is falling and it’s going to hit the ground really hard. I wonder how Black American women that are mainly propped by White America thanks to the civil rights movement and feminism are going to cope. Times are tough my friend and White Americans are looking out for themselves. Good Luck, Ghettogagger crew.


  468. Deepdkchocolate:
    “Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation. That is weakness. I feel many Black men are intrinsically weak and should go forth and give their weakened bloodlines to the enemy.
    “shrugs” I would not want that weak-ass blood infecting my bloodlines.And ur destiny should be going forth and bolstering the defective bloodlines of ur enemies, so we all know u r the enemy as well. “shrugs”..lol.”

    Vin says:
    I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again.
    Nothing more than a lame guilt tactic. There are plenty of non black men that don’t protect their women and children. Are you going to call them out as well. I think we know answer!
    Also don’t forget to call out the white man who sleep and dates non white women. Somehow, I doubt that you will.


  469. I’m just wondering why it took so long for you to make this post?


  470. Basically what this boils down to with a lot of these women is internalized racism. Yes women should want the best man possible. Even if it means a man of another race. Yes women shouldn’t accept abuse. Yes the Black community has a lot of issues to deal with.

    But that isn’t what the BWE is about. It’s clearly about White skin worship and demonizing Black men. Then these supposedly “educated” women find different ways to excuse their racism.

    The issue is that after 5-6 years of this dribble. The panacea of white men that was promised to Black women if they sellout black men. They never appeared or some women found out first hand. That any man will do to you what you allow him to get away with. Even though most act as if they never had a bad date with a white man. It must be her fault I guess.

    It’s truly pathetic. What is the worst part. It’s blatant to see that these BWE blogs are about money first, white men and then black women.


  471. These comments seem to be tit for tat.

    *sighs*


  472. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 17:08:58 deepdkchocolate

    Vin says:
    I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again.
    Nothing more than a lame guilt tactic. There are plenty of non black men that don’t protect their women and children. Are you going to call them out as well. I think we know answer!
    Also don’t forget to call out the white man who sleep and dates non white women. Somehow, I doubt that you will.

    Deepdkchocolate says: Thats ur story and ur sticking with it. It’s an excuse, noone is excused from negative behaviors because others happen to engage in said same negative behaviors, this horsecrap has not gotten anyone off the hook for murder, “Yeah I killed somebody but that a lame guilt tactic wanting to throw me in jail for life , because there are others out there killing too.” Prime example of the weakness of many black men, u can dish it out but God forbid u should address Black women’s and Black children’s grievances against U.Why would I call out white men? I could give less than a damn about white men.This is about us and OUR race. Take some responsibility and stop hiding behind the white man.


  473. @deep

    You are pretty ignorant and blatantly racist. If your mind is made up. I think you should multiply your bloodlines with any guy that would take you. Non-Black of course.

    BWE does get credit for exposing the weak minded Black women in the community. They have hid to long in the name of “loyalty” when it really was a lack of options.


  474. Deepdkchocolate said:
    Thats ur story and ur sticking with it. It’s an excuse, noone is excused from negative behaviors because others happen to engage in said same negative behaviors, this horsecrap has not gotten anyone off the hook for murder.

    Vin says:
    Straw man. I know perfectly well that everybody is responsible for their own actions.

    Deepdkchocolate said:
    “Prime example of the weakness of many black men, u can dish it out but God forbid u should address Black women’s and Black children’s grievances against U.”

    Vin says:
    The words glass, stones and houses come to mind when black women say this. I wonder why?

    Deepdkchocolate said:
    “This is about us and OUR race. Take some responsibility and stop hiding behind the white man.”

    Vin says:
    Who says I was hiding behind the white man. I was simply pointing out the bull ish that BWE spout out. If as you say and I’ll quote:
    “That is weakness. I feel many Black men are intrinsically weak and should go forth and give their weakened bloodlines to the enemy.
    “shrugs” I would not want that weak-ass blood infecting my bloodlines.And ur destiny should be going forth and bolstering the defective bloodlines of ur enemies, so we all know u r the enemy as well. “shrugs”..lol.”

    By your own logic Black women and non black men that gives themselves to the “enemy” must have “weakened bloodlines” as well
    I’ll stop blaming white men and black women for our troubles as soon as black women stop blaming black men and white women for their troubles.

    Do black men have self imposed troubles – Defo
    Do black women have self imposed troubles – Defo
    Are black people going anything about? I sincerly doubt it.


  475. Totally lost the drift of these convo.

    Where is it going? It seems to be a directionless runaway train.

    To many generalizations… Black women this, black men that bla bla bla. Black women not feminine? WHAT? You mean ALL? MAJORITY? MINORITY? What exactly do you mean?

    I have come to the conclusion that Peanut is right.


  476. this shit is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

    these women a) hate themselves
    http://changecomesslow.com/2012/07/11/black-woman-hate-yourself/

    or b) think white is so right they’ve been brainwashed to believe that if they can’t be white the next best thing is to be with white.

    http://changecomesslow.com/2011/10/17/white-is-right/

    http://changecomesslow.com/2012/04/18/light-skin-is-good-white-skin-is-better/


  477. @Jasmin

    “We know that black women out earn black men in America. We also know that white men out earn everybody. Hmmmm. A match made in heaven, perhaps? Let the white women scramble around for child support for a change. Let’s see then how far a brotha’s sexual and romantic currency will take him.”

    What difference does it make how much more a black woman makes than a black man? Why do you BWE bloggers constantly compete with Black MEN for the affection of white men? Compare your income to white, Asian or Hispanic women. Lets also not forget that black women are unique in that she is more likely to date down economically when going inter-racial than her white, Asian, or Hispanic counterpart.


  478. everclyde said:
    You are pretty ignorant and blatantly racist. If your mind is made up. I think you should multiply your bloodlines with any guy that would take you. Non-Black of course.

    BWE does get credit for exposing the weak minded Black women in the community. They have hid to long in the name of “loyalty” when it really was a lack of options.

    Vin says:
    Precisely! These women routinely expose themselves for who they really are yet cry foul when people call them on this.
    The BWE are simply a bunch mercs that wants the status of certain white men. For sometime now the BWE have peddled their bull ish without being challenged and being agreed to by black simps and manginas. They say stuff that I would only expect from White supremacists, nationalists etc about black men.
    Now certain events have majorly weakened their position. The American economy is falling so white men are looking out for themselves and the Rayon McIntosh incident has shown that black american women are not the victims that the BWE proclaim.
    They have only 2 choices now. They can keep playing or they can fold. If they keep going on worshipping white men, they might actually achieve their objectives of crippling “Blackistan”, making sure that black american men are vilified even more and live the dream of having high status and inflating their egos even more.
    Or they can fold, become humble, come correct, admit that they are not perfect and truly take responsibility for their own actions.

    Failure is not an option. Good Luck BWE
    You’re going to need it big time.


  479. NorthEastUK / Quit_Playin is banned for using sock puppets


  480. @peanut,

    I’m not sure whether you were addressing me. Everyone understands that the perception of beauty is only one of the many reasons why black women are not valued. Most black women are not in prison. Certainly most black female prisoners don’t have the resources to be terribly active in the BWE movement. The movement clearly began as a way of addressing the deterioration of many bm/bf relationships– not because of the increase in the black female population. I don’t quite understand your point. Is every post that anyone makes supposed to cover every reason why black people are not treated equally? If that were the case, we’d all be here all day,every day. Every single post does not have to be loaded with gravitas.

    @quitnplayin,

    I am neither an apologist for or a member of the BWE movement. I am happily married to a bm whom I adore. Apparently, it makes a huge difference. It’s one of the main reasons our relationships fail.


  481. It’s just that, as a bw, I can empathize with the BWEers. I think that most of us can.


  482. What in the world is a sock puppet????


  483. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 19:33:42 Menelik Charles

    @abagond

    why dont you give warnings if you suspect someone is ‘sock pocketing’ rather than just banning people? This is way to draconian, and its not as if you’re clamping down on trolls or anything.

    Just unban NorthEastUk and let him speak, why dontcha? He/she was one of the few people on here defending what was right and making sense doing so.


  484. @ Jasmin

    A sock puppet is one of the multiple screen names someone might use for reasons that are usually shady.
    ——————

    I’ve actually tried staying away from this thread because I knew it would just degenerate into mud slinging.


  485. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 19:57:46 Menelik Charles

    @ Deepchocolate,

    you’re so deluded that you even try and spin my defense of the Black female image into a rant about how Black women are seen in Europe? I have to accept what you, ONE Black woman, says, as opposed to what I and millions of Black people living in Europe know as a general truth?

    And you talk about ludicrous?

    What is is wrong with people like you? Do you live in some sort of parallel universe? There are 1000s of Black prostitutes shipped in from Africa all over western European capitals. Simple fact. Does this mean that Naomi Campbell isnt a ‘super model’?

    You like to score points instead of making them. Why? Can you not live in peace with Black men even online? Must every potential debate descend into a gender war?

    Wow, man: and people wonder why I posted the videos above demonstrating how Black women are depicted as generally unfeminine, unfriendly and combative?

    Peace, man, yeah: just try a little peace!


  486. The sites aren’t as bad as they sound. Evia and other sites encourage black women to find and be with quality men not just white men although white men are often mentioned because they are the men black women are warned to be leery of (even if their long dead ancestors had NO TIES to slavery). Don’t judge the BWE sites jjust by one blog report. I’ve been on both sites for at least a year. Visit the sites and judge for yourself. Read the book to find out what the real story is. Don’t just accept someone elses rendition of it. By the way there is no “totem pole”. It’s a fear tactic gimmick to further make black women being that we are the least desired. Dont believe it. You date who you like. No one knows a black woman more than she knows herself.


  487. @Jasmin

    “We know that black women out earn black men in America.”

    You sure about that?


  488. @Menelik–

    why dont you give warnings if you suspect someone is ‘sock pocketing’ rather than just banning people? This is way to draconian, and its not as if you’re clamping down on trolls or anything.

    Just unban NorthEastUk and let him speak, why dontcha? He/she was one of the few people on here defending what was right and making sense doing so.

    Tut! Tut! Trying to protect NorthEastUK again. Tell us how many sock puppets does NorthEastUK have? Are you confused about its gender? You just want NorthEastUK/Quit Playin to dish out hate against Black American women, don’t you. Let’s see who pops up next.

    If you and your adored sock puppets dislike Black American women so much, no one is stopping you from getting any other kind of woman you want. You’re the one who keeps reminding Black women of all the sexual currency Black men supposedly have from that super stud label that White men gave you. Use your currency on some other women.


  489. For some reason, people tend to misinterpret the educational gap btwn black men & black women as a wage gap. Do some research… the latter doesn’t exist.


  490. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 20:26:18 Menelik Charles

    abagond said:

    Menelik, never on this blog have I seen such clear and saddening cases of internalized racism. Like what Brothawolf said, it is despairing. Not to say I do not have issues myself, as Peanut pointed out, but still…

    At first Peanut had me wondering if maybe I was a bit too hard on BWE in the OP, but my view now is that I said what had to be said, that if anything I did not go far enough. If I write another post on BWE it will not to be to add “balance” but to compare BWE logic with white racist logic or something along those lines. This is just so bad and so sad.

    Menelik says:

    and I have never seen you so close to the emotion of anger abagond (it is very nearly palpable). I actually feel uncomfortable with your discomfort since you typically tend to leave the emotions to others while your views (often infuriatingly so) veers between the political correct and personal preference.

    But now you seethe, and declare a ‘gloves off’ approach to any future discussion of this crazy cult. Well, all I can say in response is that I’ve got your back!


  491. why dont you give warnings if you suspect someone is ‘sock pocketing’ rather than just banning people?

    I think this is fair. Everybody isn’t familiar with this blog, so it shouldn’t surprising if they unknowingly break some rules.


  492. @ Menelik–

    There are 1000s of Black prostitutes shipped in from Africa all over western European capitals.

    You love to talk about Black women prostitutes. Prostitution is the oldest profession. Black women are not hardly the only prostitutes in Europe! Most of the prostitutes in Europe, America and the entire world are not Black by a long shot. Didn’t you know? Doesn’t stop lots of other men and Black men from putting women from those other groups on pedestals and marrying them, does it?

    I’ve seen you on other sites talk about Black prostitutes. That’s one of your favorite topics. If not that, then you’re trying to insult Black women in some other kind of way. You talk out of both sides of your mouth but you think Black women here can’t see that. Then you wonder why Black women are sick and tired of Black men like you. The BWE membership is going to grow! Bet on it.

    Most Black men on here don’t say anything to put you in check. This is a perfect example of how Black men don’t protect Black women. If Black men sit around and allow another Black man or any man to besmirch the honor of all Black women like this, what good are Black men of that type to Black women?


  493. Oh dear , Mr. Charles sounds like a garden variety Black MRA. From the “ghetto gagger” comments, to everything else. Smh. And you wonder why some Black women are critical of Black men and their attitudes towards Black women.


  494. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 20:52:37 Menelik Charles

    Deepkchocolate said:

    I feel many Black men are intrinsically weak and should go forth and give their weakened bloodlines to the enemy.

    Menelik said:

    I hope these words are remembered every time this woman comments on here! Not once has a Black man on here suggested white men were our enemies (they are certainly not friends) but here is a supporter of the white supremacist BWEs describing white women and other non-Black women as “the enemy”.

    Her words support my belief that women such as her view Black men dating out as racial rejection, “abandonment” and romantic betrayal. The BWE position is the collective response to all of this. It is what I call Hate Dating (rhymes with race baiting) and it is all about putting down the opposite sex of your own race while dating inter-racially.

    They will not ‘live ‘n’ let live’. Hate keeps them warm at night. Vengeance gives them hope. And genocidal fantasies against Black men and white women, especially, keeps them alive.

    This is why, and how, they come to harmonize their hatred of Black men, and envy of white women, with the bigots of the white nationalist movement who hate Black males more than they love themselves. Their logic is thus:

    ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’!

    Remember Deepkchocolate words above, ok?


  495. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:01:37 blackhaitianprincess

    you ppl are pathetic and the younger generation my generation will fix the problems of the black community, by dating other races of men that will teach black men and boys how to treat their women right. Good day


  496. Since Menelik is creating conspiracies again in his head and projecting them on some Black women, I want to stress that I am certainly one Black woman who doesn’t give a flying fig as to whether a Black man is with a White woman or any other woman.


  497. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:08:58 Menelik Charles

    @ Nikesha,

    I’m not sure I should be saying this on here, and I’m especially unsure how you’ll react so here goes: you are freaking GORGEOUS! Jesus, the effect your look has on me is pure Viagra!

    Sorry if my comments unnerve you, sister :)


  498. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:16:42 Menelik Charles

    Its really weird when people venture onto the territory of psychoanalysis when they know not of its basic tenets.

    I do.


  499. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:16:56 blackhaitianprincess

    Black women who are on this blog, really look at what these black men are saying “you are not worth fixing the relationship between blk men/women” now if you still want to help bring these men back to blk women go ahead but please DO NOT get mad at black women who moved on. You guys still love black men, so why even the discussion on bbw blogs.


  500. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:30:32 deepdkchocolate

    Attempt to castigate me all u like. Am I supposed to be “frightened” to speak my thoughts. ?

    Menelik:
    I hope these words are remembered every time this woman comments on here! Not once has a Black man on here suggested white men were our enemies (they are certainly not friends) but here is a supporter of the white supremacist BWEs describing white women and other non-Black women as “the enemy”.

    Deepdkchocolate:
    Yes they are the enemy if they have a black man’s children and raise their black children to believe they are “cabelasian” or “bi-racial” it ain’t rocket science. I am not saying that they should not appreciate their various bloodlines but to completely dismiss their african or baack blood as many raised by white, asians or hispanics do equates enmity. Now what part of my statement above do u NOT understand, Menelik, u who would pour urself into the enemy?


  501. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:37:47 deepdkchocolate

    everclyde
    @deep

    You are pretty ignorant and blatantly racist. If your mind is made up. I think you should multiply your bloodlines with any guy that would take you. Non-Black of course.

    BWE does get credit for exposing the weak minded Black women in the community. They have hid to long in the name of “loyalty” when it really was a lack of options.

    @ everclyde u don’t know me and as black people we can pour ourselves into whomsoever we choose.That is not the point. Don’t hate. I am ignorant and a racist? No, it is ignorant and racist to raise black children and not teach them who they are but instead allow them to entertain some delusion that they are “bi-racial” never heard law enforcement, before they brutalize a black person based on their skin color ask, “Oh is ur mama white? My bad, U may go now.” lol..Have U? If not then please keep quiet. Thanks. I don’t remember white racist america cutting Tiger Woods any slack during his monumental fall from grace when he was on top of the world he was “cabelasian” when he screwed up he was just another n word. Now tell me I’m wrong.U can fool some people sometime but u ain’t foolin’ me.


  502. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:44:54 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik:
    Her words support my belief that women such as her view Black men dating out as racial rejection, “abandonment” and romantic betrayal. The BWE position is the collective response to all of this. It is what I call Hate Dating (rhymes with race baiting) and it is all about putting down the opposite sex of your own race while dating inter-racially.

    Deepdkchocolate:
    You are pathetic, u know that? What are ur words supposed to whip people into a torch-bearing frenzy , should I be burned at the stake? I do not view all IR relationships as black men “abandoning their race” but, funny , when a black woman dates IR , thats exactly how U feel about her. Ur a hypocrite.. Nothing new. And u have 0 intellectual capabilities so u take people’s comments out of context and try to “stir up the pot”.I take it as a compliment,my comments frighten u that much…lol.At no time did I make a sweeping generalization against black men, I said, “Many Black Men.” Reading comprehension, read carefully before u go off the deep end, k?


  503. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 21:52:56 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik Charles
    @ Deepchocolate,

    you’re so deluded that you even try and spin my defense of the Black female image into a rant about how Black women are seen in Europe? I have to accept what you, ONE Black woman, says, as opposed to what I and millions of Black people living in Europe know as a general truth?

    Deepdkchocolate:
    LMAO. A rant? Please go back and present any commentary I made here that could possibly be construed as a “rant”, I’ll be waiting. Ur “defense” of Black women, huh? U stated that black women are treated like prostitutes in europe , I disputed that by sharing my own experiences in europe , I don’t know how u could purport to know how black women are treated anywhere , since ur not a black woman. I am , but somehow ur opinion on how black women are treated in this world takes precedence over a black woman’s..lol.


  504. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:03:35 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik Charles
    @ Peanut,

    why the hell should I lie about how Black women are perceived throughout much of Europe? Where the hell do I flipping live: Asia? Black women are seen as prostitutes in many western European nations: especially Italy! You think my 5 sisters dont travel? That we dont talk?

    Deepdkchocolate:
    U cite Italy as a nation where black women are viewed as “prostitutes”? Italian men are known the world over for objectifying and degrading women, period. Ever see a Lina Wertmuller film? Ever see Fellini’s La Strada? Nights of Cabiria? Or perhaps that famous photograph of the frightened white woman running down the street being jeered and brayed at by Italian men. I swear u r moronic.lol.


  505. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:14:17 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik:
    What is is wrong with people like you? Do you live in some sort of parallel universe? There are 1000s of Black prostitutes shipped in from Africa all over western European capitals. Simple fact. Does this mean that Naomi Campbell isnt a ‘super model’?

    You like to score points instead of making them. Why? Can you not live in peace with Black men even online? Must every potential debate descend into a gender war?

    Deepdkchocolate:
    There are thousands of prostitutes of every race being shipped all over europe.. Ur point? Is this a thread about human trafficking or about BWE? What u r demonstrating is UR pathetic views about black women and ur views are not reality-based.I am involved in a gender war with U? U don’t even come across to me as a “man” so how could we be engaged in a “gender war” ?Cease and desist with ur scurrilous squealing and start making sense.


  506. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:21:40 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik Charles
    Its really weird when people venture onto the territory of psychoanalysis when they know not of its basic tenets.

    I do.

    Deepdkchocolate:

    I Bet..lol.


  507. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:23:47 Menelik Charles

    @ Deepkchocolate,

    you’re sick. I say so not as condemnation but as a probable statement of fact. You write as if to imply that Black men do not follow the traditional American ‘one drop rule’ denoting all those with so much as a drop of African blood ‘Black’. They absolutely do!

    Meanwhile BWE women who hate Black men (as spurned lovers hate the one who rejected them) is going to raise any male children she has with white men as Black males? They will not! They will glory in its light skin and wavy hair as they glory in white male supremacy. Their internal ideals as children was to be white since senior females in their own families let it be known they were an inferior female species for being born Black an female.

    They are the ones who seek to replicate their emotional attachment to their white dolls, and internal white egos, via their adult wombs. They are the ones who seek out non-Black sperm so as to pass off the end result as ‘Black’ so no one too closely examines the probability they had the child precisely because it wasn’t Black but as unblack as possible!

    Many Black women, in my opinion, hate themselves because they fail to meet the white standard of beauty set by the white majority. This failure alone defemininizes them, and makes them angry and envious of those who more closely meet the white standard e.g. light-skinned Black women.

    It matters not one jot that I, an opponent of yours, demonstrates that racial envy of Black females is at the core of the promotion of the white woman as the beauty ideal: all that matters is that woman like you do not meet that the white standard and therefore will wish any Black man who romantically or sexually associates with white females ill.

    Black men who’ve traditionally bore the brunt of white male sexual and racial envy are served up by you to be re-lynched in the modern era but this time via the internet and whatever mass medium white men give you access to so as to do his dirty work!

    ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’ are the words by which people like you live. You are Black, female and ugly of spirit! The wrath women like you bring down upon Black men is the wrath of evil not of justice. You seek combat where discussion may take place, and war where peace may have once been possible.

    You exhaust me.

    And all of this because of the color of my skin and my sex? Are you forgetting that the men you seek to destroy are the very same men who descended from the wombs of Black women? And whose loins did you derive from, I wonder?

    Seriously, sister, do you hate yourself so much that you would seek the destruction and oppression of Black males by white males just because women like you are finally being seen by them for what you truly are?

    Can you not understand why Black women with your spirit, and your sentiments, are given a with berth by the Brothers?

    Look at those videos I posted above, why don’t you? Crude stereotypes some maybe but tragic truths lay deep within their messages.

    Good luck.


  508. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:30:57 deepdkchocolate

    I have just come to the realization that u r not here to engage in meaningful discourse or to solve any issues present in the black community , u r here to start trouble. I believe ur a sock puppet and I also believe u r a white supremacist and though ur moniker here may sound like the name of a black man, u certainly are not that.Things were said between us, at this particular juncture I look upon u as a complete waste of time.
    Keep talking,
    no one is listening.
    Have a nice night.


  509. “Menelik:
    At first Peanut had me wondering if maybe I was a bit too hard on BWE in the OP, but my view now is that I said what had to be said, that if anything I did not go far enough. If I write another post on BWE it will not to be to add “balance” but to compare BWE logic with white racist logic or something along those lines. This is just so bad and so sad.”

    Linda says,

    Actually, Menelik, you’ve gone far enough but the main problem with all your analysis, dialysis, and rhetoric is that you aren’t talking to any black woman on this board who is involved with the BWE movement.

    You’ve been arguing back and forth with black women posters who support, love, and are married to black men.

    So, the only thing you and the other male posters have manage to do is turn this post to sh’t with your insults

    and inablity to listen and Discuss with the black women posters here on Abagonds blog (who I will repeat once again are NOT a part of BWE) their views about the rationale behind the thought-process of the actual women on the BWE blogs.


  510. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 22:33:40 deepdkchocolate

    @ Linda, my sentiments exactly. Bravo!


  511. and inablity to listen and Discuss with the black women posters here on Abagonds blog (who I will repeat once again are NOT a part of BWE) their views about the rationale behind the thought-process of the actual women on the BWE blogs.

    But the rest of you still love me, right?


  512. Looks like I have a lot to catch up on!
    *grabs popcorn and iPad charger*

    All kidding aside I agree with your opinion Abagond. Hey I’m all for expanding options and what not. Anyone who knows me personally knows I have a weakness for tall, dark, and handsome white guys but BWE goes beyond anything I can comprehend. The thinly veiled anger is astounding and the primary focus of many of these blogs seems to be blaming others (the “black community”, black men, society ect) for ones personal problems. If you can’t get a date or you are being mistreated it is because you are not proactive/ you are allowing bad things to happen to you. Stop playing the victim. I don’t take well to victimology and I’m a huge proponent of charting one’s life and taking control. Real black female empowerment has nothing to do with ‘disengaging’ from the BC (people are more than welcome to disengage, who’s holding you?). It should be about self-reflection, deciding what you want out of life, and taking the necessary steps to achieve that. I don’t see any of that on these blogs, just a lot of ‘woe is me’ type of talk, blame shifting, and hysterical fear-mongerring. What kind of empowerment is that?


  513. You guys still love black men, so why even the discussion on bbw blogs.

    Yup, most black women still dote, respond to and cherish the men that look and are like our daddies. There would not be a discussion if you crazy heffas would just admit you are not interested in black men and move on an stop putting them and us down.

    Did you know black men who graduate from HBCUs have a higher earning potential than the white dudes ya’ll worship?

    Did you know that it is black men(sociologist, professors, writers) who are at the forefront of change for the black community? I can think of quite a few and it is not Richard *coughs* Riffraff Banks…

    Look just go back BB&W, or where ever the hell ya’ll go to sulk, loathe and whine.

    BTW…since ya’ll reject black men, good; more eligible black bachelors for my younger sister and girl cousins coming through high school.


  514. There’s variety depending on which BWE site you read. The ones I checked out are all different. The writers sound like they are different ages, have different personalities and there’s different content. It seems to me that some commenters here are overreacting.

    I don’t even know what BMV is and from what I hear, I don’t want to know.


  515. ^Nope, most of the BWE sites include black men in the conversation only to degrade them. Why do they still care if black men are so horrible? Sour grapes perhaps?


  516. The BWE site I read today didn’t even mention Black men. Granted I didn’t read all of the sites. I think some commenters are going looking for things and when you look for things, you usually find them.

    If the BWE are so horrible, why do people here even care what they’re saying? Why are the BWE sites so important?


  517. on Wed 11 Jul 2012 at 23:22:52 Menelik Charles

    jorbia said:

    If the BWE are so horrible, why do people here even care what they’re saying? Why are the BWE sites so important?

    Menelik replies:

    because the basis of BWE blogs is to defame and destroy Black men (unrequited love or what?) not to uplift and “save” Black women!


  518. Okay, guys, having gone through the post and some of the comments and quotes it looks like, purely from an outsider’s perspective, that the name BWE is a total misnomer. The BWEers have internalized the racist views of black people. Devoid of a sense of self-worth that comes from within, compassion for others who get a routine bum rap from the racist society and a total lack of understanding of why things are screwed up, these people are pretty hard on themselves in their attempts to be perfect in the eyes of the society(put all that make-up, have the perfect figure and all that jazz. there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy and fit, but we all know most of the time it’s not about that). They hate every black person whom they don’t find perfect and put them down in order to dissociate themselves from that person. In short, non-poor women who want an entry into the White Club and will do anything for that.

    Just in case anyone gets me wrong, I don’t see anything wrong with IR per se(or having children late or becoming a university graduate etc.). But deciding that one would not date but interracially, that’s racist. yes i know many would cry statistics, but let’s put aside that tosh, not just because statistics don’t tell the whole story and some statistics against the stereotypes go unnoticed and statistics are often manipulated, but because by mere observation you can have an overall idea of what a person is like. there’s no need to overgeneralize and apply a stereotype(true or false) to every individual. otherwise you shouldn’t even talk to men because 100% rapists are men.


  519. @Menelik

    I’m not addressing any of your comment until you’re ready to discuss Black Men in drag contributing to the negative portrayals to black women and that work song from the early 19th century. Projecting to get a rise out of me isn’t going to make you look less inconsistent at the point.

    @Satanforce

    As we Black Americans say: I love you like a play cuzzin.
    Its a good thing.


  520. *early 20th century*


  521. because the basis of BWE blogs is to defame and destroy Black men (unrequited love or what?) not to uplift and “save” Black women!

    That’s why I consider this a major overreaction. Abagond posted about 8 websites of BWE writers, but how many websites are there on the internet? Millions? Why is it that some here think that those 8 women have the power to destroy Black men? I think that’s bizarre!

    And you, Menelik, write a lot of junk to defame Black women. Maybe that’s why you think that BWE is trying to defame or destroy you. Karma? Think about it.


  522. @Satanforce, you’re the kind of fella that could tempt a sista to do a 180, if a sista could be tempted. lol


  523. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 00:24:00 Menelik Charles

    Jorbia,

    are you twelve years old? You seem very young.


  524. @Jorbia,

    I think it is a mistake to underestimate the power of words and images…

    Some unsuspecting young black person could easily stumble across these sites and become influenced by their messages. Is this fair? The poor kid did not have a chance to make up his or her mind about any of this. It was already made for them.

    What BWE bloggers and writers are doing is irresponsible. You want to uplift black women and girls? YES! by all means let us do so, but this has to include black men b/c a young black girl or woman’s life is not independant of black men.


  525. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 00:40:08 Menelik Charles

    @ Linda,

    you have not quoted a word I uttered lol Those were words I quoted from abagond lol


  526. @phoebeprunelle–

    Some unsuspecting young black person could easily stumble across these sites and become influenced by their messages. Is this fair? The poor kid did not have a chance to make up his or her mind about any of this. It was already made for them.

    But couldn’t this go for anything. Look at all of the garbage in the movies, media, porn, Hip Hop lyrics. I could think of many other much more harmful influences on young Black people than what 8 women are writing on blogs.

    What BWE bloggers and writers are doing is irresponsible. You want to uplift black women and girls? YES! by all means let us do so, but this has to include black men b/c a young black girl or woman’s life is not independant of black men.

    But I think the reason why they don’t allow Black men on those sites is because of the same thing that has happened here. Name-calling, insults, or men trying to dominate or focus attention on themselves. Why can’t women just get together and talk about what women are experiencing, without men? Why would men even want to jump into a group of chatting women? I have never been interested in jumping into a man’s chat group.

    Also, Black women who date out or socialize with Non-Black men mostly don’t have lives that revolve around Black men, aside from relatives.


  527. Also, Black women who date out or socialize with Non-Black men mostly don’t have lives that revolve around Black men, aside from relatives.

    So in your estimation of things, if BWE is so much for social change; why wouldn’t, even those black women that prefer non black men, include black men in their lives? And i am not saying revolve around. I am speaking of inclusion.


  528. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:11:26 Menelik Charles

    phoebe,

    because its about as thoroughly rejecting Black men as they feel rejected by them (for white, light, bi-racial and Latin women)! These are women scorned who seek a racial alliance with white males AGAINST Black males.

    Romance has nothing to do with this picture.

    They want the world to be rid of the only men whom they have ever loved ‘n’ lost. They aint white men. White men are those for whom they have to settle for as they typically have to settle for them…after their divorce from their previously white wives!


  529. So in your estimation of things, if BWE is so much for social change; why wouldn’t, even those black women that prefer non black men, include black men in their lives? And i am not saying revolve around. I am speaking of inclusion.

    I think that when a Black woman is involved with a White man, she’s not thinking she’s a “social change agent” who has to make it a point of duty to include Black men into her life. She’s not on a social crusade. She’s just a woman in a relationship with a man. By virtue of her relationship with the White man, social change just occurs as a byproduct of their relationship.

    Would you expect for Black men who date out to be social crusaders who must include Black women in their lives, aside from relatives?


  530. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:26:41 Menelik Charles

    Deepdkchocolate said:

    Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation.

    Shady_Grady replied:

    It is of course untrue that black men never organized to protect black women from what they saw as exploitation, primarily but not exclusively from white male rape or prostitution, sexual harassment of home workers, etc.

    One of the primary tenets of the NOI as well as forerunners or rival organizations was specifically that black women should be protected and cherished. This theme can be found in organizations and individuals going all the way back to African Blood Brotherhood, UNIA, Deacons of Defense, Robert F. Williams etc…

    So basically anyone who says that black men NEVER made this a priority is either completely ignorant of history or is deliberately spreading misinformation out of pure malice.

    We can all have our own interpretations but facts are facts.

    Menelik says:

    and it took a well-informed white man to tell her of these simple, indisputable facts? And she claims I’m a white man posing as a Black man and a member of some white racist movement?

    A movement which apparently ONLY here defending the integrity of Black males against the likes of her?

    Someone is not well: seriously, someone is not well at all!


  531. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:32:22 Menelik Charles

    @ Deepkchocolate,

    you’re sick. I say so not as condemnation but as a probable statement of fact. You write as if to imply that Black men do not follow the traditional American ‘one drop rule’ denoting all those with so much as a drop of African blood ‘Black’. They absolutely do!

    Meanwhile BWE women who hate Black men (as spurned lovers hate the one who rejected them) is going to raise any male children she has with white men as Black males? They will not! They will glory in its light skin and wavy hair as they glory in white male supremacy. Their internal ideals as children was to be white since senior females in their own families let it be known they were an inferior female species for being born Black an female.

    They are the ones who seek to replicate their emotional attachment to their white dolls, and internal white egos, via their adult wombs. They are the ones who seek out non-Black sperm so as to pass off the end result as ‘Black’ so no one too closely examines the probability they had the child precisely because it wasn’t Black but as unblack as possible!

    Many Black women, in my opinion, hate themselves because they fail to meet the white standard of beauty set by the white majority. This failure alone defemininizes them, and makes them angry and envious of those who more closely meet the white standard e.g. light-skinned Black women.

    It matters not one jot that I, an opponent of yours, demonstrates that racial envy of Black females is at the core of the promotion of the white woman as the beauty ideal: all that matters is that woman like you do not meet that the white standard and therefore will wish any Black man who romantically or sexually associates with white females ill.

    Black men who’ve traditionally bore the brunt of white male sexual and racial envy are served up by you to be re-lynched in the modern era but this time via the internet and whatever mass medium white men give you access to so as to do his dirty work!

    ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’ are the words by which people like you live. You are Black, female and ugly of spirit! The wrath women like you bring down upon Black men is the wrath of evil not of justice. You seek combat where discussion may take place, and war where peace may have once been possible.

    You truly exhaust me.

    And all of this because of the color of my skin and my sex? Are you forgetting that the men you seek to destroy are the very same men who descended from the wombs of Black women? And whose loins did you derive from, I wonder?

    Seriously, sister, do you hate yourself so much that you would seek the destruction and oppression of Black males by white males just because women like you are finally being seen by them for what you truly are?

    Can you not understand why Black women with your spirit, and your sentiments, are given a with berth by the Brothers?

    Look at those videos I posted above, why don’t you? Crude stereotypes some may be but tragic, and unfortunate, truths lay deep within their messages.

    Good luck.


  532. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:34:29 Menelik Charles

    deepdkchocolate replied:

    I have just come to the realization that u r not here to engage in meaningful discourse or to solve any issues present in the black community , u r here to start trouble. I believe ur a sock puppet and I also believe u r a white supremacist and though ur moniker here may sound like the name of a black man, u certainly are not that.Things were said between us, at this particular juncture I look upon u as a complete waste of time.

    Keep talking,

    no one is listening.

    Have a nice night.


  533. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:37:15 Menelik Charles

    Deepkchocolate said:

    I feel many Black men are intrinsically weak and should go forth and give their weakened bloodlines to the enemy.

    Menelik said:

    I hope these words are remembered every time this woman comments on here! Not once has a Black man on here suggested white men were our enemies (they are certainly not friends) but here is a supporter of the white supremacist BWEs describing white women and other non-Black women as “the enemy”.

    Her words support my belief that women such as her view Black men dating out as racial rejection, “abandonment” and romantic betrayal. The BWE position is the collective response to all of this. It is what I call Hate Dating (rhymes with race baiting) and it is all about putting down the opposite sex of your own race while dating inter-racially.

    They will not ‘live ‘n’ let live’. Hate keeps them warm at night. Vengeance gives them hope. And genocidal fantasies against Black men and white women, especially, keeps them alive.

    This is why, and how, they come to harmonize their hatred of Black men, and envy of white women, with the bigots of the white nationalist movement who hate Black males more than they love themselves. Their logic is thus:

    ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’!

    Remember Deepkchocolate words above, ok?


  534. @ jasmin

    i was not responding to you, but menelike who thinks ALL Black women care about is beauty perception when we care about all types of things.


  535. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 01:42:45 Menelik Charles

    Oh, and if anyone wishes to view my unsightly looks, you are welcome to meet me over on Facebook.

    Menelik Charles


  536. I think that when a Black woman is involved with a White man, she’s not thinking she’s a “social change agent” who has to make it a point of duty to include Black men into her life. She’s not on a social crusade. She’s just a woman in a relationship with a man. By virtue of her relationship with the White man, social change just occurs as a byproduct of their relationship.

    But the BWE blogs promote a sort of social change for black women, by encouraging first and foremost to marry mainly white men, leave the black community and all of its said dysfunction. Social change does not occur simply because a black person marries a white person. Like Satanforce said this is bitchtivism at its best. BWE is not about anything but these black women’s selfishness and narcissism. The thinking goes quite like this: since white men are the highest men in this society, i will leave the black community so that i can carve out a nice stake in materialistic things and be the envy of lowly black women who got stuck in hood. Instead of doing the hard work it takes to nation build with other black folks.

    Would you expect for Black men who date out to be social crusaders who must include Black women in their lives, aside from relatives?

    I certainly do. Despite a black man marrying a non black woman, his children will be of color therefore they will be subjected to white racism and colorism. See, contrary to what BWEs and BMVs believe, gaining a white spouse does not eradicate your social problems as a black man or woman.


  537. i was expecting some sensitivity from you menelik that’s all i ask, but you’re acting like an ogre and not even trying to understand people’s feelings…


  538. i can’t take your evil talks menelik, i am in an emotional state and all I ask for is respect. i feel unstable here.


  539. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 02:49:59 Menelik Charles

    @ Peanut,

    calm down, dear, I’m on your side. But cease this silly talk of me being anti-Black woman, and we’ll get along just fine. For the record, I am anti-matriarchy (female supremacy) and white (male) supremacy: the BWE movement represents both. Together they have ruined our families, and communities and now seek to blame Black men for the fallout.

    Black men are not given ABC specials to bemoan their inability to find so-called good Black women because Black women (in comparison to Black men) are seen as all good. No publishing house is set up to produce a cottage industry of tripe about Black men being unable to find Black wives (because the thugs and losers that they typically choose have effed them out) because they’re all angry, bitter, unfeminine, ghetto and virtually undatable. No Essence or Ebony articles are promoting the success of Black males because only Black women’s success and struggles must be acknowledged.

    The focus is deliberately kept on Black males as the problem and Black women happily read out scripts handed to them by their paymasters.

    And yet the Black community and family is actually run (and ruined) by a mass of self-entitled, uncheckable, shemales with barely concealed psychological disorders who can hardly boil an egg between them! And yet they complain about the lack of ‘good’ Black men? What in God’s name makes them ‘good’ women? Other people’s (i.e. Black men’s) real or imagined failings?

    Every Black Movement which has ever existed in the US has been set up (by Black males) specifically to address Black men’s inability to take care of business: be it with family, community or the white police. We address our problems and admit our failings for all the world to hear (see Farrakhan and the Million Man March speech), and still we’re accused of not owning up to our collective failings and responsibilities.

    This is a wicked, wicked, wicked, slander!

    There is but one group in the Black community who can basically do what the freaking hell they like (see Erykah Badu, Blaqueindigo, and the Ghettogagger series) and when Black men attempt to call them to account in order so as to defend the ever-decreasing dignity of Black women, what happens? Black women crawl out of the woodwork to defend such behavior and demolish the men defending THEIR integrity! Meanwhile, a new movement of self-loathing Black males have emerged to ordain ‘Black woman is God’ and so now they are even beyond the realms of human criticism!

    This is madness!

    And you wonder why Black men have had enough? Enough of the lies, deceit, hypocrisy and ad hominem attacks? We are absolutely exhausted by all of this hatred, spite and wicked sentimental associations with white supremacists. The only possible relief we can get from such Black women is for them to date out, live ‘n’ let live, and leave the words ‘Black men’ out of their mouths.

    Will they ever do this?

    No. They never will. I know this. The will have to be overthrown in some tangible way. That day is coming. I know this. Trust me, it will come, and it will be the most humiliating and tragic spectacle you will have ever witnessed.

    I know this.

    Anyway, stay calm, dear, all is well. We are pals, ok?


  540. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 02:52:46 Melissa Jenkins

    Charles Menelik, I dont care what you say. You have deep issues with black women…deep issues.


  541. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 02:56:56 Melissa Jenkins

    Peanut, you are a very weak person. Charles Menelik has problems and if he can affect you like that you have deep personal problems.


  542. melissa jenkins,

    fine i’m a weak person…now what?


  543. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 03:05:01 Menelik Charles

    Of course I do, Jenkins Melissa, of course I do, dear :)


  544. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 03:11:12 Menelik Charles

    Peanut,

    trust me, your sensitivity (alleged weakness) is the source of your femininity. It is an attractive trait so lacking among a good number of African-American females. If you can learn to harness it and remove it some safe distance away pathological vulnerability, and then embrace it: you will find it is an added weapon in your arsenal when dating.

    Men love feminine sisters because they are rare enough. We are weak in the presence of femininity and strong when it chooses to embrace us. We’d walk through walls for a feminine sister.


  545. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 03:15:43 Menelik Charles

    This sister encapsulates the sheer majesty of Black femininity! Her youthful, welcoming smile (couldn’t imagine a sneer deriving from her mouth) and a body to build empires for. I give you Bria Myles, the 8the Wonder of The World:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hClZ16EMWMg)


  546. @ menelik NO you are not on my side, you’re just a steretypical fool who blames Black women for everything! all the stuff you said about black women matriarcy ruining black relationships that’s a load of bull sh-t that’s some moynihan report crap, i suggest you read Stapes MYTH OF THE BLACK MATRIARCHY and put an end to that bull sh-t once and for all. Black women did not dominate black men nor do we kick them out of our families and actually black men have a privilege over black women and that that they are men in a sexist society, all things being equal black men actually earn MORE than black women working in the same positions, WHY because they’re men. black women may have more lower level employment, but black men earn more at the highest levels of employment FACT!

    you’re just full of ish and everything you said about black women going on tv to criticize black men is bull sh-t because there are MANY black men who have done the same thing. Eldridge Cleaver wrote some of the dumbest things about black women and this was back in th 1960s so there have always been crazy black men who HATED black women for no reason


  547. why do you even say such hurtful things menelik look what you make me do! you make me go off on people and run my blood pressure up, why can’t you just be nice and act normal and not say such hateful things! black women ARE WOMEN just like anyone else we just want to be held and protected like anyone else, telling us we’re masculine and matriarch who dominate black household IN A NEGATIVE way is not right! stop stereotype us i DO NOT want ot have to stereotype YOU to make u understand how it feels. i don’t want to go there


  548. The uncalled ‘ghettogaggers’ name-calling needs to stop post haste. An absolutely disgusting and demeaning reference.


  549. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 03:49:42 Menelik Charles

    Peanut,

    its cool. Lets call a truce, yeah? You dont comment on my stuff and I wont respond to your questions.

    Deal?


  550. First off its BDWE Women (Black Dependent women empowerment)

    I coined that term.

    (Throwing the Roc Sign up)

    Abagond and London what’s good man.

    Y’all know what I do

    Mr Laurelton Queens

    Black women empowerment is dependent on men taking them in and paying their bills. That sounds like dependency to me. They never mention what they bring to the table other than their “Swirl panties and earrings”.

    Like Mr Banks said in his book. IR dating is good for black women, because it makes black men want to “compete over them”. That is a very smart strategy, it has worked for Evia considering she still talks about her ex Nigerian husband that is a polygamist. She still has kind words for him. Oh yeah, she has kinds words for him because he is well off financially.

    Unfortunately, the “rainbeaus” wouldn’t stand up to a black man, even if they were pulled kicking and screaming by sellout black women. They seem to be the only ones defending what can’t be defended. Rainbeaus pick them last in every dating category. They even admit this. Yet, they clamor at the rainbeau’s feet looking for crumbs.

    That is the tragedy in the whole thing. Black women are socialized to like dominate men. They are trying to convince themselves that the rainbeau is “dominate in other areas”. HMM, I guess some sellout black women can force themselves to believe anything at this point.

    I am out


  551. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 05:54:47 Menelik Charles

    Can someone on here explain to me why this engaging Hispanic waiter is so EXHAUSTED at his place of employment?

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq18htpnuN0&feature=related)

    Who are the psychic vampires violating his spirit?


  552. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 05:57:51 Menelik Charles

    Is he anti-Black woman too?

    Hi Bro Laurelton (Bro Queens dont sound right lol)


  553. Someone explain why there is a picture of a woman with a extremely large behind on a Black Women’s Empowerment thread? Instead of a bw graduating college, a beautiful black bride, a gorgeous black supermodel or achieving any accomplishment rather than having a big butt. Black women are more that just that. That is the problem that we encounter. Objectification by some black men.


  554. “and it took a well-informed white man to tell her of these simple, indisputable facts?”

    @Menelik..actually I’m black…let me check again..yup…. =)
    http://www.theurbanpolitico.com/p/about-us.html


  555. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 11:56:22 deepdkchocolate

    @ Agabond, why did u delete my subsequent comments to Menelik? Why r u protecting him? U know he is a sock puppet and not all he claims to be. So why protect him I think ur all full of it. And it is very annoying that u r censoring my comments, Agabond and allowing Menelik to rage unchecked,

    deepdkchocolate replied: I have just come to the realization that u r not here to engage in meaningful discourse or to solve any issues present in the black community , u r here to start trouble. I believe ur a sock puppet and I also believe u r a white supremacist and though ur moniker here may sound like the name of a black man, u certainly are not that.Things were said between us, at this particular juncture I look upon u as a complete waste of time. Keep talking, no one is listening. Have a nice night.

    I don’t know why u would censor my above commentary to Menelik and a young lady basically said the same in her commentary, I believe it was Linda , and u deleted her comments.Meneli is name-calling and behaving very foolishly. What, is he ur boyfriend? Fellow white supremacist in arms?


  556. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:03:31 deepdkchocolate

    Why delete this?

    Deepdkchocolate said: Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation. Shady_Grady replied: It is of course untrue that black men never organized to protect black women from what they saw as exploitation, primarily but not exclusively from white male rape or prostitution, sexual harassment of home workers, etc. One of the primary tenets of the NOI as well as forerunners or rival organizations was specifically that black women should be protected and cherished. This theme can be found in organizations and individuals going all the way back to African Blood Brotherhood, UNIA, Deacons of Defense, Robert F. Williams etc… So basically anyone who says that black men NEVER made this a priority is either completely ignorant of history or is deliberately spreading misinformation out of pure malice. We can all have our own interpretations but facts are facts. Menelik says: and it took a well-informed white man to tell her of these simple, indisputable facts? And she claims I’m a white man posing as a Black man and a member of some white racist movement? A movement which apparently ONLY here defending the integrity of Black males against the likes of her? Someone is not well: seriously, someone is not well at all!


  557. @Deep

    I was talking about your comments about Black men and you know it. It’s ignorant and racist. If that is how you feel. Please by all means. Don’t date a Black man have a non-black child and move on with your life.


  558. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:10:01 deepdkchocolate

    mind ur own business , everclyde, how u “feel” is meaningless to me,I will say whatever I like about MY race as I am black, who r u to tell ME which path I must choose or whom I should pro-create with? Grow up and get over it, or don’t. I could care less.


  559. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:12:55 deepdkchocolate

    @ Menelik, mending fences? I called u out as what u r , a troublemaker, not interested in discussing issues solving the rift between black women and men simply here to foment trouble and ur being protected as anyone who disagrees with ur commentary has theoir posts deleted. U white supremacists r everywhere aren’t U? Everywhere black, that is.


  560. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:20:33 deepdkchocolate

    And I still maintain that most instances of IR relationships produce confused self-hating progeny who identify more with their enemy than with the people THEY LOOK LIKE. So sue me.


  561. @Menelik

    “Many Black women, in my opinion, hate themselves because they fail to meet the white standard of beauty set by the white majority. This failure alone defemininizes them, and makes them angry and envious of those who more closely meet the white standard e.g. light-skinned Black women.”

    Honestly. This is what I always thought most of the bickering was all about. If you want to go to the heart of the matter. I’m no Bible thumper

    1 Corinthians 11:15

    But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

    What that has meant to me was that to a woman. Her beauty is paramount to her. In the society we live in. Black woman’s features are said to be unattractive. Hair, nose, skin, and body. While some hide it better than others. I feel some Black women cannot get over that they aren’t seen as “beautiful” as White women. So they have become angry and resentful.

    Jealous of White Women because they are seen as undeserving of the status. Angry at Black men for not making a society where Black women are worshiped by ALL men. Angry at Black men for passing on their unattractive Black genes onto them. And last but not least and adoration of White men for being king makers of White women and having “good” genes to make “pretty” babies.

    I believe it is an 80/20 rule with most of these BWE women. 20% is the state of the Black community and treatment of women. The 80% is just pure vanity and ego.

    White feminist want to be men. Black feminist want to be White women.


  562. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:25:21 deepdkchocolate

    “and it took a well-informed white man to tell her of these simple, indisputable facts?”

    @Menelik..actually I’m black…let me check again..yup…. =)
    http://www.theurbanpolitico.com/p/about-us.html

    Did the job get done or did these organisations pander to white supremacy as most “black ” organisations do, or were these “black” organisations created by jews like the NAACP? lol. And white person can’t tell me a darned thing, keep deleting my comments I must be very scary to u big strong men..lol.


  563. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 12:30:33 deepdkchocolate

    @ Menelik, the only question from my commentary u actively sought to address was my assertions that u r “white” and a white supremacist , u could not address anything else and ur henchman who allegedly runs these boards won;t even appear to address any of my concerns he just deletes content at ur behest, I noticed that if uy r not in “control” of the thread commentary and posts dissappear, “poof”..lol. U should do the same.


  564. I think there is a misconception about what Black men feel about BWE as a whole. I don’t believe men are against Black women coming together and supporting one another. Who would be against that. The media image of Black women is bad. Black women have shown the last couple of years. That as a group. They have power. Look at the Kevin Hart incident earlier this year. How many apology videos has he made. Look at the Satoshi Kanazawa debacle. He lost his job. That is power that almost rivals Jews in the media.

    So you would think that a collective force would tackle some issue of Black women. Teen pregnancy, kicking Koreans out of the hair care industry, and dealing with relationship issues of Black women. True empowerment.

    But all that we see is White worship, and Black male demonizing. It’s truly sad. It’s sad that other Black women are exploiting Black women for profit. It’s equally as sad that many Black women are accepting this message. So maybe they are taping into what some Black women care about the most. Vanity.


  565. @phoebeprunelle–

    But the BWE blogs promote a sort of social change for black women, by encouraging first and foremost to marry mainly white men, leave the black community and all of its said dysfunction. Social change does not occur simply because a black person marries a white person.

    I think there are a lot of misinterpretations here. Some people in America do think that as more Blacks and Whites come together in any type of harmonious relationship, that spells social change for the better. They really do think that, so I thought that’s what you were getting at.That’s why I said that social change can be a byproduct when a Black woman dates out with a White man.

    The BWE sites I read never say that Black women should marry “mainly White men.”

    I don’t know whether any of the BWE sites says its purpose is to bring about social change. When I’m involved with a White man, I’m not trying to bring about social change. I’m a woman who likes a man who likes me. That’s why I’m with him.


  566. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 13:19:57 deepdkchocolate

    @ Everclyde, men aren’t against black women coming together? have u read the commentary here? lol.Teen pregnancy is more prolific amongst whites, haven’t u heard? Kicking Koreans out if the hair industry? That is their industry and Black women CHOOSE to support that. Maybe if Black women embraced their natural beauty they wouldn’t feel the need to support the Korean Hair care industry. We as black women need to stop supporting things that are not benefitting us, it has to start with us.


  567. @phoebeprunelle–

    Like Satanforce said this is bitchtivism at its best. BWE is not about anything but these black women’s selfishness and narcissism. The thinking goes quite like this: since white men are the highest men in this society, i will leave the black community so that i can carve out a nice stake in materialistic things and be the envy of lowly black women who got stuck in hood. Instead of doing the hard work it takes to nation build with other black folks.

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with trying to live a nice life in a safer area where there are better amenities. I admit I will do that. Many Black people move out of Black residential communities for that same reason. When I date out, I’m not thinking about trying to be the “envy of lowly black women who got stuck in the hood” either.That’s bizarre. I know many other Black women who date out. I’ve never heard anything like “Oh I’m doing this so that Black women stuck in the hood can envy me.”

    There are millions of Black Americans who are in relationships with other Black people who don’t “nation build”, so why would anyone put that expectation on Black women who get involved with White men?

    Has Abagond set up a post to examine why those millions of other Blacks who are in relationships with each other don’t nation build? I guess some of them do, but obviously a lot of them don’t. I think that’s where the scrutiny should be instead of on the small number of BWE sites.

    Some commenters here have given those BWE writers so much power. Now, it seems that some of you expect for those BWE women to become nation-building saviors.

    No one can deny that those BWE sites are very appealing to some of you for some reason.


  568. @ Deep

    Not sure what you are talking about. I have not deleted any comments by you or Linda in this thread. Maybe I am misunderstanding you.


  569. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 13:37:07 deepdkchocolate

    @ Agabond, they were not present last time I viewed the thread therefore I assumed they had been deleted, I see them now, u have my apologies.

    Oh, and if anyone wishes to view my unsightly looks, you are welcome to meet me over on Facebook.

    Menelik Charles
    @ Menelik, they are unsightly. No wonder ur so pissed off at the world in particular, Black women..lol.


  570. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 13:43:11 deepdkchocolate

    Menelik said:

    I hope these words are remembered every time this woman comments on here! Not once has a Black man on here suggested white men were our enemies (they are certainly not friends) but here is a supporter of the white supremacist BWEs describing white women and other non-Black women as “the enemy”.

    Deepdkchocolate:
    Of course not, u are to chicken to identify ur real enemy, u just pick on Black women. Proud of ur weakness? The Black woman is ur enemy.


  571. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 14:01:20 deepdkchocolate

    Shady_Grady replied:

    It is of course untrue that black men never organized to protect black women from what they saw as exploitation, primarily but not exclusively from white male rape or prostitution, sexual harassment of home workers, etc.

    One of the primary tenets of the NOI as well as forerunners or rival organizations was specifically that black women should be protected and cherished. This theme can be found in organizations and individuals going all the way back to African Blood Brotherhood, UNIA, Deacons of Defense, Robert F. Williams etc…

    So basically anyone who says that black men NEVER made this a priority is either completely ignorant of history or is deliberately spreading misinformation out of pure malice.

    Deepdkchocolate: Props to NOI, The African Blood Brotherhood never specifically addressed the exploitation of the black female but sought to address racist attacks in black individuals, get ur facts straight.The Universal Negro Improvement Assoc. and Ida Wells Barnett did address the ramifications of black women bing sexually assaulted but black men never organised PHYSICALLY to address the sexual assault of Black women , they never organised militarily to combat the sexual assault of black women..lol.


  572. Deekdkchocalate, you wrote this:

    “Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation.”

    When called out on the fact that the statement is factually untrue and easily proven to be untrue you then double down by saying well they weren’t effective or didn’t do enough or didn’t do it precisely the way that it should have been done. In short, you are doing backflips and handstands to avoid the fact that you wrote something that was incorrect. Everyone makes mistakes; it’s no biggie. But evidently you can’t admit that you were WRONG, which not so ironically happens to be one of the biggest complaints that men in general have about women in general and some black men have about some black women in particular.

    So now that we all know you were wrong and that 2+2 =4 and not 5, the only remaining question is were you writing out of ignorance, which can be fixed or malice, which can’t be fixed?

    When you make BLANKET statements of fact you need to be able to back them up. Otherwise stay out of places where people will challenge you. I suggest going back to one of the BWE blogs.


  573. @everclyde–

    “1 Corinthians 11:15

    But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.”

    Not a Bible student, but this is how I think that many people misinterpret scriptures in holy books for their own warped reasons. But let’s look at this literally. Having a “covering” is very different than saying that a woman is or can only be beautiful if she has long hair.

    Even if taken literally, it does not rule out short hair as beautiful. Yet this scripture is used to make some Black women feel that their hair is inferior, if they don’t have as much “covering.”

    Many Black women do have just as much “covering” as any other woman, but because of the texture of it, it just doesn’t hang down. The scripture doesn’t say that the covering has to hang down in order for it to be a glory. My hair is longer than that of many Non-Black women, but it doesn’t hang down unless I straighten it in some way.

    I think this is how holy books are used to generally help in the oppression of women.


  574. Everclyde wrote this:
    “I believe it is an 80/20 rule with most of these BWE women. 20% is the state of the Black community and treatment of women. The 80% is just pure vanity and ego.”

    Yes I’m starting to think that’s the case.


  575. @ ShadyGrady–

    What Deepdkchocolate said is one of the biggest innermost gripes that Black American women have about Black men. Black men as a group do not protect Black women as a group even when they can. Everybody knows that.

    But here you are splitting hairs about how she didn’t say it in the right way. What she said is true and a lot of Black women agree with her, if they are honest. Most just don’t say it out loud or write it because they don’t want to make Black men feel bad. Nothing much will change between the Black genders until Black men as a group organize to give more protection to Black women as a group.


  576. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 14:42:40 deepdkchocolate

    @ Jorbia, it really is that simple.. Thank U.


  577. First ones on the lifeboat. From personal experience, there have been times when I needed help getting my bags on the overhead or something lifted and the bm will just sit there and look at me. Almost each time, a white or non black men have been the ones to step up and help.

    Not to glorify wm, but I am going by what I see and hear from other women also. SOME bm have to learn how to treat and protect women better if they want a feminine and docile woman, learn to be a man.

    Deep has made a lot of sense in this entire thread.

    Some men aren’t happy unless they totally break a woman down, once she’s broken, they say her brokeness is femininity. Tear you down to build you up. Peanut, keep your head up!


  578. No Jorbia. What she said is wrong. Period. Full Stop. It really is that simple.
    2 + 2 5.


  579. If I write that “Black women NEVER DO X” and someone shows me that no actually this Black woman did x and that black woman did x and so did these black women over here and those black women over there, I would be honest enough to admit that I was wrong. My ego is ok with being wrong occasionally.

    Unfortunately much of the BWE movement has nothing to do with honesty. It has a LOT to do with fragile pumped up egos that can NEVER admit to being wrong but only find fault with black men. Period. Full Stop.

    There have been black men who were killed trying to protect their families. So again, anyone who ignores that history is either full of bovine excretion and just ignorant or simply malicious.

    Again, this obsession with being right when the clear facts show otherwise is the hallmark of someone who is either still a child or has some sort of emotional disorder.


  580. There seem to be a lot of complaints about chivalry. Well maybe chivalry is a good idea and maybe it is not. I do know however that over the last 30-40 years many American women have ruthlessly rejected any sort of expectation or limitation on THEIR behavior that they find “sexist” or “demeaning” or “traditionalist” or just don’t work for them. They have, somewhat successfully, redefined what being a woman means.

    Well actions have consequences. Women can’t tear up the social contract on one side and then still expect that all men are still going to abide by rules that women occasionally find useful. If a woman wants a gentlemen then she has to be a lady. If most women no longer aspire to be ladies, then they shouldn’t be all that surprised that gentlemen are in short supply.


  581. @Shady Grady–

    No Jorbia. What she said is wrong. Period. Full Stop. It really is that simple.
    2 + 2 5.

    If hair-splitting to obscure the truth makes you feel good, so be it. What Deepdkchocolate said is true and it’s the way most Black American women feel about BlackAmerican men, if they’re honest. Men generally try to protect and support women if they value them.This is why a lot of Black women know that Black men don’t generally value them. This shows up in lots of little and big ways in our interactions with Black men, in general.

    Don’t try to gaslight us. We know what we experience and what we don’t.


  582. What Deepdkchocolate said is one of the biggest innermost gripes that Black American women have about Black men. Black men as a group do not protect Black women as a group even when they can. Everybody knows that.

    What about groups like the Deacons for Defense and Justice, the African Black Brotherhood, the UNIA and the Fruit of Islam? And people like Robert F. Williams and his Black Armed Guard?

    And what about women like Tawana Brawley, Crystal Gail Mangum (Duke Lacrosse case) or Renada Williams? Sometimes. protecting black women can go wrong – very wrong.


  583. everclyde said,

    “What that has meant to me was that to a woman. Her beauty is paramount to her. In the society we live in. Black woman’s features are said to be unattractive. Hair, nose, skin, and body. While some hide it better than others. I feel some Black women cannot get over that they aren’t seen as “beautiful” as White women. So they have become angry and resentful.

    Jealous of White Women because they are seen as undeserving of the status. Angry at Black men for not making a society where Black women are worshiped by ALL men. Angry at Black men for passing on their unattractive Black genes onto them. And last but not least and adoration of White men for being king makers of White women and having “good” genes to make “pretty” babies.

    I believe it is an 80/20 rule with most of these BWE women. 20% is the state of the Black community and treatment of women. The 80% is just pure vanity and ego.

    White feminist want to be men. Black feminist want to be White women.”

    COMPLETE NONSENSE, if black women are jealous of white women then black men are jealous of white men period.


  584. that corinthians translation “long” in its original context really meant “full,” “healthy,” “adorned,” not long in the sense we think of the word.


  585. “Aspire” to be ladies…

    That one made me chuckle a bit.


  586. “Well actions have consequences. Women can’t tear up the social contract on one side and then still expect that all men are still going to abide by rules that women occasionally find useful. If a woman wants a gentlemen then she has to be a lady. If most women no longer aspire to be ladies, then they shouldn’t be all that surprised that gentlemen are in short supply.”

    First, I am a lady. That’s one thing that people notice and comment on first. Maybe this memo (chivalry is no longer) is lost among other races of men. The point isn’t the notion of chivalry has changed, it is why are OTHER men helpful?


  587. lawd…. a lot of you people here need jesus. all this damn arguing and for what? nothing.


  588. abagond? are you there? i need to email you about something


  589. @Satanforce–

    I think it’s best to stay away from “always” and “never” when discussing any issue. I understood Deepdkchocolate to mean that “generally” or mostly everyday, Black men these days don’t mostly or generally protect Black women and it leaves Black women feeling very unprotected. Yet Black men seem to think that Black women should overlook this and smile or be docile and passive towards them and accept their leadership.

    What about groups like the Deacons for Defense and Justice, the African Black Brotherhood, the UNIA and the Fruit of Islam? And people like Robert F. Williams and his Black Armed Guard?

    I agree that these groups of Black men have sporadically offered some protection. But let’s stretch this. Even during slavery, there were some Whites who stood up to protect Blacks. Yet Blacks don’t throw Whites points for that because Blacks look at “general” everyday protection.

    And what about women like Tawana Brawley, Crystal Gail Mangum (Duke Lacrosse case) or Renada Williams? Sometimes. protecting black women can go wrong – very wrong.

    Yes, I agree that blindly protecting any group can go very wrong, sometimes. But generally speaking, the reflex should be that Black men will defend and protect Black women. This is in order for most of the women to respect them or even want to seriously listen to them.


  590. what about anita hill and clarence thomas?


  591. satanforce said:
    What about groups like the Deacons for Defense and Justice, the African Black Brotherhood, the UNIA and the Fruit of Islam? And people like Robert F. Williams and his Black Armed Guard?

    And what about women like Tawana Brawley, Crystal Gail Mangum (Duke Lacrosse case) or Renada Williams? Sometimes. protecting black women can go wrong – very wrong.

    Vin says:
    They know about those organisations. They just don’t care. Remember the BWE and their “acolytes” need to use lies, half truths and hypocracy to promote there racist sexist agenda. If they think that white men are going to protect them, then let em think that. I have a question for the BWE and their supporters though. Who’s going to protect the white man when America truly hits the ish?
    The BWE are falling big time and nobody is going to save them. Let me get snacks and some British beer. Coz when they fall it’s going to be better than pro wrestling, MMA and boxing combined! LOL


  592. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:09:20 deepdkchocolate

    What about groups like the Deacons for Defense and Justice, the African Black Brotherhood, the UNIA and the Fruit of Islam? And people like Robert F. Williams and his Black Armed Guard?

    And what about women like Tawana Brawley, Crystal Gail Mangum (Duke Lacrosse case) or Renada Williams? Sometimes. protecting black women can go wrong – very wrong.

    Deepdkchocolate: The women u cited were themselves victimised and abused . And how can protecting black women go wrong?


  593. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:12:41 deepdkchocolate

    Vin says:
    They know about those organisations. They just don’t care. Remember the BWE and their “acolytes” need to use lies, half truths and hypocracy to promote there racist sexist agenda. If they think that white men are going to protect them, then let em think that. I have a question for the BWE and their supporters though. Who’s going to protect the white man when America truly hits the ish?
    The BWE are falling big time and nobody is going to save them. Let me get snacks and some British beer. Coz when they fall it’s going to be better than pro wrestling, MMA and boxing combined! LOL

    Deepdkchocolate: They who? I made the comment and I was not familiar with every organisation mentioned by ShadyGrady. This is not some conspiracy to denigrate black men nor am I a charter member of BWE, grow up.


  594. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:16:55 deepdkchocolate

    When called out on the fact that the statement is factually untrue and easily proven to be untrue you then double down by saying well they weren’t effective or didn’t do enough or didn’t do it precisely the way that it should have been done. In short, you are doing backflips and handstands to avoid the fact that you wrote something that was incorrect. Everyone makes mistakes; it’s no biggie. But evidently you can’t admit that you were WRONG, which not so ironically happens to be one of the biggest complaints that men in general have about women in general and some black men have about some black women in particular.

    So now that we all know you were wrong and that 2+2 =4 and not 5, the only remaining question is were you writing out of ignorance, which can be fixed or malice, which can’t be fixed?

    When you make BLANKET statements of fact you need to be able to back them up. Otherwise stay out of places where people will challenge you. I suggest going back to one of the BWE blogs.

    Deepdkchocolate: Did u present evidence proving ur claims or disproving mine? No, U did not. I did state that some of what u said is correct. Calm down.Ur asking me to support my comments with facts , why don’t u try doing the same, or STFU. K?

    And If I am wrong so are millions of black women who feel that black men DO NOT support or protect them ok, Mr. Big shot! And I never said anything about organisations I sais Black men, Reading comprehension ONCE AGAIN.


  595. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:20:09 deepdkchocolate

    “Black men never made it a priority to prevent white males from violating their women, u never organised in the name of upholding or protecting black women from rape or exploitation.”

    @ ShadyGrady or whatever, never mentioned any organisations. I stated Black men, get mad, I could care less. Truth hurts , don’t it? lol.Stop twisting my commentary to fit into ur skewed world view, thanks.


  596. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:22:47 deepdkchocolate

    When you make BLANKET statements of fact you need to be able to back them up. Otherwise stay out of places where people will challenge you. I suggest going back to one of the BWE blogs.

    Never been on a BWE blog, I suggest u go to hell..lol.


  597. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:25:20 deepdkchocolate

    @ ShadyGrady,
    u ain’t some big shot attempting to vilify me , Most black men do not protect black women. MOST BLACK MEN DO NOT PROTECT BLACK WOMEN..lol. Now get mad.I am not the only black woman who feels that way. lol.


  598. Shady_Grady said:
    Unfortunately much of the BWE movement has nothing to do with honesty. It has a LOT to do with fragile pumped up egos that can NEVER admit to being wrong but only find fault with black men. Period. Full Stop.

    Vin says:
    Hear Hear!

    Shady_Grady said:
    There have been black men who were killed trying to protect their families. So again, anyone who ignores that history is either full of bovine excretion and just ignorant or simply malicious.

    Vin says:
    I’ll go with all 3 of those descriptions.

    Shady_Grady said:
    Again, this obsession with being right when the clear facts show otherwise is the hallmark of someone who is either still a child or has some sort of emotional disorder.

    Vin says:
    I’ve got a cure for BWE disorder. It’s called “GROW THE F**K UP”!

    Shady_Grady said:
    There seem to be a lot of complaints about chivalry. Well maybe chivalry is a good idea and maybe it is not. I do know however that over the last 30-40 years many American women have ruthlessly rejected any sort of expectation or limitation on THEIR behavior that they find “sexist” or “demeaning” or “traditionalist” or just don’t work for them. They have, somewhat successfully, redefined what being a woman means.

    Vin says:
    Indeed!

    Shady_Grady said:
    Well actions have consequences. Women can’t tear up the social contract on one side and then still expect that all men are still going to abide by rules that women occasionally find useful. If a woman wants a gentlemen then she has to be a lady. If most women no longer aspire to be ladies, then they shouldn’t be all that surprised that gentlemen are in short supply.

    Vin says:
    Exactly. This isn’t a BWE problem per se but a Western (especially Anglophone) woman problem. They seem to want all the privileges and none of the responsibility.


  599. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:30:48 deepdkchocolate

    Jorbia:
    If hair-splitting to obscure the truth makes you feel good, so be it. What Deepdkchocolate said is true and it’s the way most Black American women feel about BlackAmerican men, if they’re honest. Men generally try to protect and support women if they value them.This is why a lot of Black women know that Black men don’t generally value them. This shows up in lots of little and big ways in our interactions with Black men, in general.

    Don’t try to gaslight us. We know what we experience and what we don’t.

    Deepdkchocolate:
    It is true and I don’t have to be nor am I a part of BWE and I know this.lol.


  600. Deepdkchocolate: “They who? I made the comment and I was not familiar with every organisation mentioned by ShadyGrady. This is not some conspiracy to denigrate black men nor am I a charter member of BWE, grow up.”

    Vin says:
    If you say so.


  601. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:37:56 deepdkchocolate

    Deepdkchocolate: “They who? I made the comment and I was not familiar with every organisation mentioned by ShadyGrady. This is not some conspiracy to denigrate black men nor am I a charter member of BWE, grow up.”

    Vin says:
    If you say so.

    Deep says: I do.It really isn’t that serious..


  602. “Exactly. This isn’t a BWE problem per se but a Western (especially Anglophone) woman problem. They seem to want all the privileges and none of the responsibility”

    And they want a ultra feminine, docile woman, but do not want or know how to be a gentleman. Works both ways. Anytime you’re at the store and see the woman paying all of the time, driving all of the time, even pushing a car that’s stopped while the man is steering? Come on!! I was at a gas station in a predominately black neighborhood. I saw a young woman trying to push her car to the pumped because it stopped right before the pump. As I pumped gas, I watched all of these men just look at her struggle to push and walk right past her. I, a slim woman, being the gentleman(lol) that I am, help her push to no avail. But, hey someone has to be the gentleman.


  603. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:46:30 deepdkchocolate

    Shady_Grady said:
    Well actions have consequences. Women can’t tear up the social contract on one side and then still expect that all men are still going to abide by rules that women occasionally find useful. If a woman wants a gentlemen then she has to be a lady. If most women no longer aspire to be ladies, then they shouldn’t be all that surprised that gentlemen are in short supply.
    Deep:
    A woman expressing an opinion does not exempt her from being a “lady”. Grow up. This is a discussion no one has done anything u r suggesting.. Tearing up social contracts? How? Remember how u asked for proof to back up our statements please provide proof to support ur erroneous posts..


  604. @the cynic

    You got me slightly on that one. According to the latest BLS data, Black men in the US earn a whopping $68.00 a week on average more than black woman. I suspect this HUGE gap will close as more black women than men continue to earn college degrees.


  605. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:53:54 Menelik Charles

    Will someone on here please address this Hispanic man’s question. Forget Black men ever existed, yeah: just answer the guy’s question!

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq18htpnuN0&feature=player_embedded)


  606. i didn’t listen to the video and don’t plan to listen to any videos that stereotype black women in this thread hispanic, black, white asian doesn’t matter…I am recanting my statement not to respond to your comments menelik, just stop it.


  607. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 18:55:37 Menelik Charles

    Thing is Jasmine, no one expected ‘no good’ Black men to be earning more than Black super women, did they lol


  608. menelik do you even like black women? with all the stereotype you it’s a wonder you even care about black women or desire us


  609. Dear vindicator,

    What’s a ghettogagger? I’m a (fill in top art school) grad artist married to a (black) attorney with a J.D. from Harvard. I don’t think I’m one of those. Why must you be so rude and sarcastic? Dang, folks post some ugly stuff under the cloak of Internet anonymity. I know you’ll find some other way to denigrate me so, please, feel free to go ahead and knock yourself out. I’ve only one response to anything you have to say from now on. I’ll say it once. “Ewww.”


  610. @menelik,

    That’s not the case. We’re not talking about top earners. The average salary was $602.00 for black women and $670.00 for black men.

    I think I’ll leave this thread since everybkack man that posts here assumes that every black woman who posts here is a BWE fanatic who hates black men.

    Out.


  611. Kelly said:
    And they want a ultra feminine, docile woman, but do not want or know how to be a gentleman. Works both ways.

    Vin says:
    That’s mine and Shady’s point.

    Kelly said:
    Anytime you’re at the store and see the woman paying all of the time, driving all of the time, even pushing a car that’s stopped while the man is steering? Come on!!

    Vin says:
    Question begging.
    1. Was/is the woman at the store by herself?
    2. What if the woman that’s pushing the car which is stuck, can’t drive?

    Kelly said:
    I was at a gas station in a predominately black neighborhood. I saw a young woman trying to push her car to the pumped because it stopped right before the pump. As I pumped gas, I watched all of these men just look at her struggle to push and walk right past her.

    Vin says:
    Well did she ask for help? I’m not suprised that the men didn’t help her. I and my friends have been cursed out by women on more than one occasion for being chivalrous. All that ish about being a “strong, independant women” and those type of women are first to complain about the death of chivalry. Well you got what you want.
    However, the chivalrous part in me (I do have one) will always, with in reason try to help out a “damsel in distress” when it comes to the more “manly” things. So long as she asks for my help. (I’m no mind reader, I can’t assume)

    Kelly said:
    I, a slim woman, being the gentleman(lol) that I am, help her push to no avail. But, hey someone has to be the gentleman.

    Vin says:
    So who helped you ladies out?


  612. I don’t even bother to say that I’m not a member of the BWE because if a Black woman here says she not, some of these rabid commenters who want bad things to happen to Black women will still say that you are, IF you don’t agree with them.
    To them, BWE = bad Black woman.
    Sound like BWE = bad Black woman
    Speak out about what’s really happening to Black women = Bad Black woman
    Co-sign the Black men’s opinions on here = good Black woman

    I understand. This is all about controlling Black women’s minds and bodies.

    I, too, can have an opinion that’s different from a man’s and still be a refined woman or a lady.

    I don’t watch any of these biased videos either. Anyone can find a video to support any warped opinion they have.

    Thing is Jasmine, no one expected ‘no good’ Black men to be earning more than Black super women, did they lol

    It doesn’t surprise me that some Black men earn more than some Black women. Due to sexism, most men in the same occupation with the same credentials, earn more than women. The big problem is that not nearly as many Black American men have those credentials.


  613. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 19:30:11 deepdkchocolate

    Shady_Grady said:
    Unfortunately much of the BWE movement has nothing to do with honesty. It has a LOT to do with fragile pumped up egos that can NEVER admit to being wrong but only find fault with black men. Period. Full Stop.

    Vin says:
    Hear Hear!

    Shady_Grady said:
    There have been black men who were killed trying to protect their families. So again, anyone who ignores that history is either full of bovine excretion and just ignorant or simply malicious.

    Vin says:
    I’ll go with all 3 of those descriptions.

    Shady_Grady said:
    Again, this obsession with being right when the clear facts show otherwise is the hallmark of someone who is either still a child or has some sort of emotional disorder.

    Deep: Who brought right or wrong into this? U did. Which demonstrates that u have no desire to engage in meaningful dialogue just a sad need to be “right” what r u accomplishing? Nothing. What impact r u having on the present convo? None. This is just a sad ego-based display of ur shortcomings. I don’t hate black men, I don’t even think ur black, yet u r here fomenting hatred hostility and enmity. And when u get off the computer u will be emasculated by ur white wife who probably doesn’t even have a job, but she tells u what to do..lol.


  614. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 19:33:29 Menelik Charles

    My apologies, Jasmin


  615. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 19:38:46 deepdkchocolate

    I love these so-called black men who are airing out their rage towards black women but who are too docile and passive to air out their rage against their white male counterparts who call them the n word to their face discriminate against them in the workplace, treat their kids like crap in their schools or the white women who will have sex with them have their babies and raise them to hate every bit of black blood that courses through their veins and if u lose ur job will turn on u like a viper, or the mixed-race women who will sex u spend up ur money but will not take u home to meet their family because although they may have questioinable bloodlines , they know better than to bring a black man home.. Ur all BUFFOONS. Have a nice day.


  616. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 19:40:47 Menelik Charles

    @ Vindicator,

    please dont take single examples from the likes of Kelly seriously otherwise we’ll be here for the rest of our lives! The purpose of women like her is to present unsubstantiated example so as to bog us down in an endless trench war. Meanwhile, the issues of accountability and responsibility we place at the feet of certain types of Black women go unaddressed.

    These women are simply undatable to the conclusion of long-term relationships. They know this. They also know how they look. What do I mean by this? Wont say…I’m a gentleman lol


  617. @ Menelik–

    These women are simply undatable to the conclusion of long-term relationships. They know this. They also know how they look. What do I mean by this? Wont say…I’m a gentleman lol

    This is another “weapon” that some of you Black men use against a Black woman who speaks out about the dysfunctional behavior of many Black men. You say she’s just mad because she’s ugly or undateable, can’t get a man, or that no man wants her for a long-term. Yet when we date out with White men and they want us for long-terms, you then call us “sell-outs”, ghetto-gaggers and other foul names.

    As for that link, you should be ashamed of yourself if you’re putting Mother Tubman there to make fun of her looks! I see nothing wrong with the way Mother Tubman looks, but plenty of Black American men would not want a modern Black woman with her looks–not if you could get a woman who looks like the woman in the middle. You know that. We all do. That’s the point I made the other day here and some of you started insulting me. Of course.


  618. Jasmin asked:
    “Dear vindicator,

    What’s a ghettogagger? I’m a (fill in top art school) grad artist married to a (black) attorney with a J.D. from Harvard. I don’t think I’m one of those. Why must you be so rude and sarcastic? Dang, folks post some ugly stuff under the cloak of Internet anonymity. I know you’ll find some other way to denigrate me so, please, feel free to go ahead and knock yourself out. I’ve only one response to anything you have to say from now on. I’ll say it once. “Ewww.”

    Ghettogaggers is vile disgusting porn production which involves anonymous white men abusing (physical or verbally) black women while have sex with her.
    I call the BWE ghettogaggers because they seem to worship white men and their feelings are not returned in kind. Much like the Films of Ghettogaggers.
    Also I’ve never heard anyone of the BWE complain about the black women or the white men in these porn films. Also if Black men did some of the things that those white men do to black women in Ghettogaggers. Black men would be put on blast, faster than a speeding bullet (and rightfully so!)

    As for you Jasmin you’re not a Ghettogagger by virtue of you being married to a black man.
    See a black women can have a romantic relationship with a white man and not be a Ghettogagger.

    To be a Ghettogagger there are some prerequisites. Those are:
    1. Worship the white man and never question anything he does which is negative. The BWE mostly do this
    2. Being a white man’s jump off. This is also common among BWE yet why do they only put black men on blast for doing this?

    I hope that answers your question. Most BWE = Ghettogaggers.

    As to the way I communicate. I’ll admit that the BWE brings out the worst in me. However while I won’t excuse what I’ve done. I feel that the BWE and their sympathisers are have a warped sense of logic. They are hypocrites and are proud of it. Sometimes you have to sling mud back at you enemies.


  619. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 20:01:06 Menelik Charles

    WILL SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS GENTLEMAN’S QUESTION! HE IS UNTARNISHED BY BEING A BLACK MAN SO SURELY HIS QUESTION IS WORTH ADDRESSING!

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq18htpnuN0&feature=player_embedded)


  620. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 20:13:37 Menelik Charles

    @ Bro Vindicator,

    The BWE merchants do not perceive white men as being intrinsically superior to Black men…far from it in fact! Instead they see (and write about) Black men “rejecting” them for white, light, and Latino women and this wounds them deeply as it is not only romantic and sexual rejection in their eyes but especially racial rejection!

    The scorned ‘sistas’, who already have issues with colour and hair texture, then seek out white men with whom to form what we see as romantic unions but are instead RACIAL ALLIANCES in which the white male is typically a silent partner (see Evia ‘n’ Karazin’s hubbies, for example)!

    It’s an unspoken contract in which the Black female promotes white male superiority over the Black male in exchange for a symbolic honorary white status. The stress this ‘contract’ causes Black women is immeasurable and so they seek to displace it onto the men who continue to occupy their hearts…Black men!

    Thus, we must interpret all of their BWE work as sub-conscious distress signals or SOSs’. Thing is, only a Black man could possibly read the signal correctly. White boys wouldn’t have a clue!


  621. I hope no Black woman responds to this.

    Menelik, we already know your agenda. We know very well by now that you have a low opinion of Black women. I don’t even have to watch the video to know what conclusion you want to get from it. There are plenty of White men who complain about White women’s attitudes too, but they still uphold and protect those women because they know that’s what men do, if they want those women to respect them.


  622. @Vin,

    “So who helped you ladies out?”

    I hate to say it, but…. a white man who happened to pull in for gas. No lie!


  623. menelik is just trying to get you all worked up, i didn’t even watch the video i hope no one else does.


  624. “However, the chivalrous part in me (I do have one) will always, with in reason try to help out a “damsel in distress” when it comes to the more “manly” things. So long as she asks for my help. (I’m no mind reader, I can’t assume)”

    I agree with you! There is a difference between a woman dropping a napkin and expecting a man to pick it up for her and a woman really needing help, “damsel in distress” that requires the natural physical strength of a man. That is a different story. It then goes beyond chivalry to plain human decency.


  625. Peanut, I’m not thinking about menelik. He seems extremely bitter and no, I’m not watching the video either. We can all find youtube videos about people venting and complaining about all types of people. There’s tons of videos of white women venting about black men, black people about white, etc.


  626. can someone respond to THIS VIDEO:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzKv9eKoyyQ)

    THAT THERE is REAL MAN. He has all my respect in the world


  627. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 20:31:34 deepdkchocolate

    As for you Jasmin you’re not a Ghettogagger by virtue of you being married to a black man.
    See a black women can have a romantic relationship with a white man and not be a Ghettogagger.

    To be a Ghettogagger there are some prerequisites. Those are:
    1. Worship the white man and never question anything he does which is negative. The BWE mostly do this
    2. Being a white man’s jump off. This is also common among BWE yet why do they only put black men on blast for doing this?

    I hope that answers your question. Most BWE = Ghettogaggers.

    Any name for Black men who do the same? No, of course not.


  628. RAGE. That’s the answer to your questions, Menelik.


  629. jorbia said:
    “I don’t even bother to say that I’m not a member of the BWE because if a Black woman here says she not, some of these rabid commenters who want bad things to happen to Black women will still say that you are, IF you don’t agree with them.”

    Vin says:
    I don’t want anything bad to happen to black women. Just the BWE are vile hypocrites just like you. Now you can say that you’re not part of the BWE blah blah, but you’ve got a funny way of showing it.

    jorbia said:
    “To them, BWE = bad Black woman.”

    Vin says:
    I wouldn’t say that. I’d say a Deluded Race Base Misandrist Cult or the shortened version – Ghettogagger.

    jorbia said:
    “Sound like BWE = bad Black woman”

    Vin says:
    Then you probably are one of them
    .
    jorbia said:
    “Speak out about what’s really happening to Black women = Bad Black woman”

    Vin says:
    Translation: Black men are terrible. White men are heroic.

    jorbia said:
    Co-sign the Black men’s opinions on here = good Black woman

    Vin says:
    You women can be as opinionated as you want to be. Being a good black woman is all about many things…………… but a BWE isn’t a good black woman.

    Jorbia said:
    “I understand. This is all about controlling Black women’s minds and bodies.”

    Vin says:
    Yeah I know. You and the BWE just want white men to control black women’s minds and bodies.

    Jorbia said:
    I, too, can have an opinion that’s different from a man’s and still be a refined woman or a lady.

    Vin says:
    Damn straight.

    Jorbia said:
    “It doesn’t surprise me that some Black men earn more than some Black women. Due to sexism, most men in the same occupation with the same credentials, earn more than women. The big problem is that not nearly as many Black American men have those credentials.”

    Vin says:
    The old feminist wage gap myth. Once you take into account the types of jobs women do and also the amount of hours women and men do when they have the same occupation then the wage gaps are accounted for. Of course the last part of what you said was a blame shift to black american men. Most of the businesses in the USA are run by white men thus most black people will work under a white boss. *Ghettogaggers are jumping for joy thinking their saviour the white man as a boss*
    So are you and the BWE going to put white men on blast for the black men and women wage gap?
    I think we know the answer!


  630. Let’s see what took place here and you will see why many logical intelligent people have problems with many BWE adherents.

    A person made a statement of fact. Not emotion or feeling, but fact. This fact was on the level of ” the sun revolves around the earth”.

    I point out that no actually the earth revolves around the sun.
    Rather than admit they were wrong the person and her supporters double down to insist that the sun revolves around the earth and how dare I say otherwise and anyone who agrees must hate black women.

    Silliness. This is why I have come to understand that much (most?) of the BWE has only a tenuous relationship to reality.


  631. Deepdkchocolate wrote
    “I made the comment and I was not familiar with every organisation mentioned by ShadyGrady. ”

    And THAT is exactly why we should not write blanket statements when we are unfamiliar with the facts. We can talk about feelings or emotions all we want and no one can gainsay us. But if you want to write things like ALWAYS or NEVER when you’re dealing with facts, you need to know what you’re talking about.


  632. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 20:54:45 deepdkchocolate

    Deepdkchocolate wrote “I made the comment and I was not familiar with every organisation mentioned by ShadyGrady. ” And THAT is exactly why we should not write blanket statements when we are unfamiliar with the facts. We can talk about feelings or emotions all we want and no one can gainsay us. But if you want to write things like ALWAYS or NEVER when you’re dealing with facts, you need to know what you’re talking about.

    U haven’t proved it was true or not.Ok u have not furnished any proof.OK? STFU and prove ur assertions ok? Ur sad need to be right is becoming annoying. I am honored that I occupy so much time in ur mind..lol.and that ur triumphing over me will cause ur balls to swell up..lol.


  633. Jorbia wrote
    “If hair-splitting to obscure the truth makes you feel good, so be it. What Deepdkchocolate said is true and it’s the way most Black American women feel about BlackAmerican men, if they’re honest. Men generally try to protect and support women if they value them.This is why a lot of Black women know that Black men don’t generally value them. This shows up in lots of little and big ways in our interactions with Black men, in general.”

    This is too funny. Some one makes an incorrect statement and I point out that it’s incorrect and that’s “hairsplitting”.
    BWE: “The moon is made of blue cheese.”

    Me: “No it’s actually a satellite formed from the earth 4.5 billion years ago.”

    BWE: “You’re hair-splitting to obscure the truth!!!!”


  634. Rage at being devalued, not only as women, but as human beings. Rage at being thrust into the position of having to take control, all to often, of a runaway train that they are ill prepared to deal with. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. The so-called Black community is messed up at its core and it is Black women who are being blamed…blamed for not raising their sons to be responsible men; blamed for raising their daughters to ‘batten down the hatches’ and to try to take the controls. Meanwhile, running a household with children is said to take a man and a woman. When it is just the woman, she gets the blame for what the man’s mother did or didn’t do, and also has to run the household by herself after he twaddles off. When she does a bad job of if it, she is blamed for that too. A lone woman trying to do a two person job. She is expected to be superwoman, and when she is not…she is blamed for everything that goes wrong.

    I have no children…so I’ll be damned if any BM includes me in the BW-aren’t-single-handedly-raising-their-children-right-through-no-fault -of-BM accusations.

    There is little point to showing hurt feelings by calling BW ghettogaggers etc. I don’t know about the UK, other than there is an extremely high IR rate for BM there (having absolutely nothing to do with Black American women, as there aren’t a boatload of us over there anyway). Whites and others here already have the “ne’er do wel{l image of BM firmly implanted in their minds anyway. BW putting BM on blast isn’t helping the situation, but it did not create the situation either.


  635. Deekdjchocolate wrote

    “Deep: Who brought right or wrong into this? U did. Which demonstrates that u have no desire to engage in meaningful dialogue just a sad need to be “right” what r u accomplishing? Nothing. What impact r u having on the present convo? None. This is just a sad ego-based display of ur shortcomings. I don’t hate black men, I don’t even think ur black, yet u r here fomenting hatred hostility and enmity. And when u get off the computer u will be emasculated by ur white wife who probably doesn’t even have a job, but she tells u what to do..lol.”

    WOW. Personal attacks much? I thought this sort of stuff isn’t even supposed to be here.
    Again, it’s ironic that someone who claims to support BWE and uplifting falls back into stereotypical black female personal attacks when she can’t stick to facts. Scan up and see where I made personal attacks on you. I didn’t. I pointed out where you were factually wrong and by your own admission you weren’t even familiar with the facts I was putting out there.

    Most people in such a situation would keep quiet and move to their next point or even thank a poster for correcting their facts but evidently that’s not how the BWE people do things. Nastiness is their calling card.


  636. deepdkchocolate asked:
    Any name for Black men who do the same? No, of course not.

    Vin says:
    I’ll bite. Here are my answers.

    1. Any black man (or any man in general) that worships any woman for whatever reason is a fool and simp.
    2. Men don’t mind being used for sex by a woman. Women (well most of them) do mind. The problem is that the BWE think it’s better to be a white man’s jump off than a black man’s wife or girlfriend. Being a jump off for a woman is the equivalent of being “friendzoned” for a man.
    A black (or any) man that is being used for sex by a women (of any race or ethnicity) is a playa. Hypocritical I’ll admit but hey!


  637. @Shady-Grady–

    This is why I have come to understand that much (most?) of the BWE has only a tenuous relationship to reality.

    You say this but so many here read those BWE sites like it’s their religion. Why the fascination?

    From all of these comments, this boils down to mainly 3 things. (1) Some of you should just admit that many of you anti-BWErs want the BWE to be saviors for Blacks because you can tell that they are accomplished Black women. (2) Some of you Black men are jealous and wish that some of those Black women with White men in the pictures on BWE sites would pay some attention to you. (3)Some of the Black women who don’t like BWE don’t want to be stuck alone with the many dysfunctional Black men.

    Since you and so many other men here obviously think you have a monopoly on what’s “right,” what stops you MEN from setting up sites to save Blacks or nation build instead of criticizing what 8 Black women are writing on their blogs?


  638. BW and BG, my best advice is: no children until you are in a stable/secure marriage. That way, if you insist on hooking up with bad boy/ inmate Ray-Ray, no third parties (ie, children) are involved in your fiasco of a life.


  639. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 21:17:01 deepdkchocolate

    WOW. Personal attacks much? I thought this sort of stuff isn’t even supposed to be here.
    Again, it’s ironic that someone who claims to support BWE and uplifting falls back into stereotypical black female personal attacks when she can’t stick to facts. Scan up and see where I made personal attacks on you. I didn’t. I pointed out where you were factually wrong and by your own admission you weren’t even familiar with the facts I was putting out there.

    Most people in such a situation would keep quiet and move to their next point or even thank a poster for correcting their facts but evidently that’s not how the BWE people do things. Nastiness is their calling card.

    Deep:
    I get to U, I get it..lol.Something about me brings out ur sad need to assert dominion over women. Sorry u could never approach me in real life and engage in meaningful discourse, so u have to behave like a two-year old on the internet and really expect someone like me to bow down to u, those r ur issues, and they r deep-seated.Now here is what I want u do, please go and find any post of mine that confirms I support “BWE” whatever the eff that is.Never heard of it until this thread was created.Stating that I am a charter member of “BWE” and that I hate men, is a personal attack. And I did not level any personal attacks against u I made an OBSERVATION..lol. Too bad u cannot tell the difference and so sorry it hit so close to home for u, u can either slither away or keep trying to get under my skin.. U don’t have the life skills or the brains to do the latter, so allow ur SAD need to assert dominion over a fellow human being with a VAGINA(on the internet because u have never posessed that type of power and control in ur abysmal personal life, again an OBSERVATION) to allow u to keep writing checks ur ass can’t cash..LMAO!


  640. melenik “These women are simply undatable to the conclusion of long-term relationships. They know this. They also know how they look. What do I mean by this? Wont say…I’m a gentleman lol”

    Have to address this. This proves the point. Has no idea what I look like, no idea. But because I am black, the implication is that, therefore, unattractive.

    Furthermore, does not know my relationship status. Assumes that I’m undateable and single.

    Proves all of these ladies points.

    Who are you to continuously infer that bw are unattractive or considered so? Are you exceedingly attractive? Even if you were, you should not be attacking other’s appearance.


  641. @Peanut

    I agree with your first video you posted!


  642. 1. Any black man (or any man in general) that worships any woman for whatever reason is a fool and simp.

    “Worship” is an extreme term, but you’re emotionally stingy. I can tell. If you mean utter adoration and loving a woman is foolish, I’m so happy that there are plenty of other men in the world who are not like you. You think a Black woman should want you, but you would not want an emotionally stingy woman like you. You are the perfect type of Black man that a lot of Black women are trying to escape from. You want a woman to give you her all, but you think it’s foolish to give her your all.

    The problem is that the BWE think it’s better to be a white man’s jump off than a black man’s wife or girlfriend.

    Well, if their only other choice is to be with a Black man like you, who can blame them? But no wonder you’re so bitter.


  643. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 22:05:42 deepdkchocolate

    melenik “These women are simply undatable to the conclusion of long-term relationships. They know this. They also know how they look. What do I mean by this? Wont say…I’m a gentleman lol”

    U r pathetic..


  644. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 22:34:07 Menelik Charles

    abagond before you rush in to respond to the finer females females of certain female, this video is a lot more nuanced than it first seems…

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt4lnbqKwCs)

    Now imagined in I were to say what this EDUCATED sister is saying!


  645. The BW’s refrain in this last video is, “BW ain’t sh!t” and she describes female genitalia as “snatch”. Also, she has gone on record as stating that Black women are borne of “ho’s”.

    She had some valid points, but discredited herself as a male-identified BW by using these and other misogynistic phrases.


  646. The women of BWE, who are also Black, are clearly bigots. Black men are never seen in a good light, only in the most negative. I’ve provided only a few links further up. For BWE Black women, Black men and boys are “guilty” until proven innocent. It’s just the way it is. At the same time, the Black men here have to be very careful not to equate BWE Black women with all or most Black women.

    Yes, call out the bigots but also understand that some Black women just want to see us do better as men. THESE are the women that are worth listening to.


  647. The women u cited were themselves victimised and abused . And how can protecting black women go wrong?

    Me saying that ‘protecting black women can go wrong’ is me being a ass/troll. You will find that I do that a lot.

    What’s a ghettogagger?

    Ghettogagger refers to series of sadistic interracial gonzo pornography which usually shows a group of white men engaging in violent oral sex with black women (the point is to usually cause them to vomit on them selves, or in a dog tray), as well as engage in violent sodomy, and double penetration.

    The women are usually amateurs that are shown to be in extreme pain during the session, or big names shown to be in extreme pain from being made to drink their own vomit, or in obvious surprise that the white men do follow the usual “ease up” ques (grabbing the ankle during oral sex, code words etc.)

    Meanwhile, the narrator, a man named Duke Skywalker, taunts the black “performers” with sarcastic and demeaning comments involving some combination of “n!gg3r”, “bitch”, “LOL”, “how come your pussy’s so loose?, “how do you feel giving up your ass virginity to a white man” etc.

    What Vin and Menelik are saying is that the BWE are no better than the women that appear on Ghetto Gaggers because they gladly volunteer themselves to any white man, for any treatment, just for some money.


  648. This thread has become a cesspool of misogyny and misandry.

    What a freakin shame….


  649. This thread has become a cesspool of misogyny and misandry.

    What a freakin shame….

    When it comes to Abagond’s, the longer the thread, the greater the LOLs.


  650. on Thu 12 Jul 2012 at 23:32:50 Menelik Charles

    There is no misogyny on this post! None.


  651. menelik please just stop this alread, abagond how can you not see how demeaning menelik is?


  652. on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 00:31:53 Menelik Charles

    jorbia says:

    Men (of other races) generally try to protect and support women if they value them.This is why a lot of Black women know that Black men don’t generally value them. This shows up in lots of little and big ways in our interactions with Black men, in general.”

    Menelik says:

    and this, I say again, is the whole reasoning behind the BWE movement: women scorned, devalued, unwanted, by their own men…or at least this is their collective perverted perception.

    This has nothing whatsoever to do with these inter-racial merchants rejecting Black men!


  653. jorbia said:
    “Worship” is an extreme term, but you’re emotionally stingy. I can tell. If you mean utter adoration and loving a woman is foolish, I’m so happy that there are plenty of other men in the world who are not like you. You think a Black woman should want you, but you would not want an emotionally stingy woman like you. You are the perfect type of Black man that a lot of Black women are trying to escape from. You want a woman to give you her all, but you think it’s foolish to give her your all.”

    Vin says:
    Hahahahahahaha. This is a new low jorbia, even for someone like you. “emotionally stingy. I can tell.” you say. How pray tell?
    “You think a Black woman should want you, but you would not want an emotionally stingy woman like you” you say. Hmmmm again how did you get that from what I said I don’t know or actually care.
    “You are the perfect type of Black man that a lot of Black women are trying to escape from.” you say. Oh the type that calls out people’s bullshit. The type of man that doesn’t tell women what they want to hear. Well tell that to my black girlfriend then.
    “You want a woman to give you her all, but you think it’s foolish to give her your all.” you say. Again, tell that to my black girlfriend.

    Projection at it’s finest.

    jorbia said:
    “Well, if their only other choice is to be with a Black man like you, who can blame them? But no wonder you’re so bitter.”

    Vin says:
    Again nothin more than projection. Only in Ghettogagger ville I suppose. I never thought I can see such terrible reasoning from the BWE till I read this. What have I gotta be bitter about huh? I got my fam, a few good friends, a women that actually likes me for me (rare as that is)! I suppose I could be in better shape……. I’ll work on that.

    You and deepdkchocolate are not fooling anybody. You have exposed yourselves as the vile hypocrites that you are. deepdkchocolate has said she has dated interracially yet she spits acid and hellfire at black men doing it. Woman are seriously out your mind?
    All you two have shown me is nothing more than whining, bitching and the words that comes to mind is glass, stones and houses.
    Don’t tell me “we’re not BWE” ad nauseam. Sorry but I’m not buying it. Both of your rhetoric stinks of BWE. “How come you know about the BWE sites”, you both ask trying to pin the false premise of “You know about them because you go on those sites.”
    NEWSFLASH: I also know about the sites of AMREN and Stormfront as well. does that mean I go on them!? Let me think….. NO.
    I will say this. I compare the both of you to the white supremacists, nationalists etc the only difference is you 2 are black and have female sexual organs……. oh and at least white supremacists are honest about their hatred for other races (especially black men)
    I can see it now with you two walking down the isle with Jim Bob and Billy Jo. A match made in heaven.


  654. where are you abagond?


  655. More to the point there is no balance in writing off all or most Black women by a BW herself punctuating her beliefs with the refrain that “Black women ain’t sh!t”. Most people who make such statements about their own group are obviously NOT including themselves in these damning observations. She pretty much topped off her hatred of her own grouping by emphatically stating that BW are borne of ho’s/whores (you’re speaking for yourself, dear, although I do feel sorry for your mama).

    There is no righteousness in men attempting to dump a bad situation in the laps of women. Yes, Black wome, often girls, do most of the child-rearing often single-handed. Black women did not create this mess and do not keep it alive by themselves. It is a punk move to shirk your responsibilities as a man an then to lay blame for it on women. Then, too, there comes a time when grown ups have to stop blaming Mama and others for their own failures in life. Grow a pair and own up to your own failures.

    And to the Black male Brits here: what exactly is yor beef with Black American women?You’ve got us on blast because….? Most Black Brits are of Caribbean or direct African descent. Not a lot of American Blacks, male or female, in the UK period/full stop….Your 50% BM IR rate in the UK has nothing to do with us.


  656. on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 00:53:08 Menelik Charles

    Funny how rational speech MUST be censored but rambling speech MUST be heard. If feels a bit like white reporters demanding that the pre-president Obama condemn Rev Wright…a fellow Black man.

    Like the white man only feels safe in his own skin when those who speak truth to power are silenced.


  657. abagond?? for goodness sakes!


  658. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS GENTLEMAN’S QUESTION! HE IS UNTARNISHED BY BEING A BLACK MAN SO SURELY HIS QUESTION IS WORTH ADDRESSING!

    What’s his question?

    He needs to be in a woman lead relationship! I can tell just by looking at him! Perhaps he’s looking to date some of these black women with ‘attitudes’! There are a lot of men who love such women with attitudes no matter the race, and pay highly for their company.

    When it comes to Abagond’s, the longer the thread, the greater the LOLs.

    Bingo!!!

    There is no misogyny on this post! None.

    Does a bear defecate in the woods?

    And to the Black male Brits here: what exactly is yor beef with Black American women?

    Opposites attract or maybe they just want a leg-over!

    I personally dream of the day when I can find my dream white man;old, wealthy, and one foot on a banana peel and the other in a grave! Where can I meet such a paragon? After he croaks, I will truly be empowered by his wealth!


  659. @SW6, I said that because this post has turn into petty argument and not discussing the point of the topic. It went from expressing your opinion to an all out war. I know I had my disagreement with abagond but not like this. Like I said, the back and forth isn’t doing nothing but causing more drama.


  660. I will end this silly little spat. This shall be the last word on the mater. ForEVAH!!

    http://satanforce.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/bwe-and-the-wall-of-silence-an-addendum/


  661. @ satanforce

    So mote it be.


  662. This was my comment several pages ago which I still maintain:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/bwe-black-womens-empowerment/#comment-136050

    But…having read most of the comments here and now finding an opportune and quite moment would offer the following…

    The videos posted by Menelik and Peanut probably sum up many of the frustrations of both Black men and women echoed here. This is why white people and other ethnic groups may feel to comment in them. They too see all this frustration or “dissin” of Black men and women and wonder: What is going on?

    Well…Lets say this to each and every person who has commentated on this thread: Do you really believe you can understand the social relationship of Black men and women in a vacuum? Outside of the role racism and internalized racism plays in a global western society structure?

    Obviously, most people commenting think they can Hence many of the frustrations and needless intense and negative arguing that has ensued… and will probably continue. I personally don’t think you can analyse BWE or any other inter male/female or other relationship outside of a context. One providing a clear understanding of the role racism plays. (What satanforce refers to as a Grand Narrative in his link before getting lost in his own!) But then thats just my view.

    Much of the pain and hurt felt and expressed, particularly by Black women stems from un-addressed and unresolved internalized racism issues. And of course the same can be said of Black men too. The only difference here being because of the nature of how white supremacy manifests itself Black women suffer and feel this the most. Hence their greater and more intense reaction and response to it. The BWE is just a symptomatic reaction of the denial of the effects internalized racism. Its an attempt to deny its existence and see how far it takes them…But then of course the same can be said of most inter-racial couplings in general. Unless they have jointly worked out a clear and positive racial narrative as guidance. While I’ve yet to experience this myself I do believe it is possible. But it is not easy! Particularly from a denial of its a necessity point of view.

    If we all accepted and focused on addressing our own unresolved issues concerning the effects of internalized white supremacy we might actually evolve some empathy for each others, seemingly, reactionary and ignorant attitudes towards each other. I’m just saying…


  663. on Fri 13 Jul 2012 at 21:39:29 deepdkchocolate

    @ Kwamla, well said.


  664. Is that really Evia’s husband? Must be some other guy. I’ve read her blog and based on the way she enthuses about her man, I never pictured him to look like a homeless guy. I totally get her point about only being with a man of quality and character. But I’m sorry, no homeless looking white dude could step to me. I might offer him a couple bucks but that’s as far as it would go.


  665. Kwamla:

    The BWE is just a symptomatic reaction of the denial of the effects internalized racism. Its an attempt to deny its existence and see how far it takes them…But then of course the same can be said of most inter-racial couplings in general.

    Oh really?

    Here we go again, Kwamla. Everything comes back to racism, not as a potential cause among a collection of causes, but necessarily as the primary cause.

    Having observed a fair number of WM-AF couplings, I can see that intra-racial colorism along with an oft-stifling chauvinistic culture impels quite a few AF to seek WM partners. These factors would exist in the complete absence of “racism” or “white supremacy”.

    Why do you suggest it’s impossible that similar reasons could be the case with BW who seek WM partners?

    The implications which follow from your narrative are ultimately quite horrible. I’ll explain in more detail if you’re interested.


  666. @Kwamla–

    Discussions about the fine points of racism and internalized racism are good fodder for debates, but you’re overlooking the simplest part of this, at least from the Black American woman’s view insofar as interracial relationships are concerned. Many Black women are simply looking for or have found compatible men with whom they share love, values, and goals. These men happen to be White or Non-Black. That’s it, and it’s no one’s else’s business.

    I plan to get married in the next 2 years, and I find that I have much more in common with the Non-Black men, mainly White men I encounter than the Black ones. We are simply more compatible.

    Some of the BWE sites focus on interracial relationships, but some don’t. As I pointed out above, those sites also talk about a wide variety of topics in a way that is tailored to the many unique needs of Black American women. We don’t get that anywhere else. That’s why many Black women are interested in those sites. That interest will continue despite opposition to the BWE.


  667. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 02:10:42 Menelik Charles

    Seraph said:

    If anyone actually supports and defends these BWE blogs, it’s because they are bigots. Plain and simple. It’s also very disingenuous to insinuate that those who are offended by such blogs are overreacting or projecting. These people would NOT say the same to dark-skinned women who listen to hip-hop and are offended at the messages they hear. Here’s just a taste:

    “Every Black Male is “Guilty” Before Being Proven Innocent”
    http://actsoffaithblog.com/dbr-alert-every-black-male-is-%E2%80%9Cguilty%E2%80%9D-before-being-proven-innocent

    “Do Black Men ‘Hate’ Black Women?”
    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/do-black-men-hate-black-women/

    (BWE woman creating a caricature of Black men and thinking it’s funny)
    http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/friday-funny-introducing-lee-roy-the-trollpanian/

    “For Men How To Find Good Black Woman”
    http://interracialloveandspicebysara.blogspot.com/2008/12/for-men-how-to-find-good-black-woman.html

    I easily found these in ten minutes and there’s so many other blogs and posts. Too many for me to post outside of my free time. Even one with Evia talking about enjoying the White privilege of her husband (her exact words), that she’s since taken down out of embarrassment.

    Try as they might BWE sympathizers will try to spin their bigotry with talking points and concern trolling, but understand that genocide never starts with the oven… but with matza ball soup and tea.


  668. I believe Kwamla’s is at the root of this disdain some black men and women have for each other. If that’s not it, what is?

    It’s simple to dismiss the part that racism, institutional or internal, plays in all this. We could call this an example of bitter black men versus scorn black women, but with black people in this nation, it’s a special case.

    The hatred that exist within certain black people to want to cast their own people into hell, especially that of the opposite sex, is likely a product of centuries’ worth of oppression and brainwashing. You CAN NOT DENY that since day one, blackness has been stripped of its humanity, turn into a curse, and is something best seen below whiteness…way below.

    It’s ridiculous that some people disagree that history played any role to the condition blacks still go through today especially if the same campaign CONTINUES! Most of the time those who deny are those who don’t even comprehend the matter from the beginning. You can’t begin to debate if you don’t even understand the situation. Some people THINK they do, but it’s their egos talking.

    And don’t think that racism is bring used as an excuse especially when their are NO GOOD arguments to counter that. NONE! Racism is an explanation. It is the root of many problems for nonwhites in this country, like it or not. And until people, including members of the black community, confront this pathology of denial, it will just get worse and worse for EVERYONE.


  669. @Kwamla & Brothawolf,

    Too many times when discussing IRR either online and on television, it further pits black men and women against one another. Why? Because too often you do not have black sociologists, psychologists and various other black professionals who study and deal with these issues from a black perspective–you bascially have a lot black people shooting from the hip and giving their opinions and limited POVs.

    I cannot tell you how many Ricki Lake,Rolanda, Larry Elder and whatever the hell that British guy’s name is who have had open panels on their shows between black men, the white women with them and the black women and white men who say they experience verbal abuse from the ww/bm couples. The one thing i have noticed with ALL of these shows is a lack of professional guidance to help people navigate through racial stereotyping and gender biases. As these things do influence our life decisions. This is sick as you end up with black men and women believing that black men somehow have sexual monopoly and many many women to choose from and black women are lucky if they even get any man to pay interest in them. Meanwhile, this keeps ww/wm in a hierarchy of desirability–simply because no one is telling these people the truth whether they are online or on television.

    And the truth is–black men historically and even in the present time have always valued black women as wives/intimate partners and the mothers of their children.

    The truth is–black women have more influence on black men than they think.

    The truth is–there is not a surplus of willing and submissive women for any man of any race–mating is a process. Once a man sifts through and weeds out the women who are way too young, way too old for childbearing, already committed,and so forth, he is left with only a percentage of women to choose from that most men get. If he is a black man, he is more than likely to choose a black woman first from that pool whom he deems meets whatever criterion he has set forth from himself.

    Just remember, the white driven media has a stake in keeping black people from really knowing the truth.


  670. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 04:26:37 Menelik Charles

    And Black mothers have more influence on their daughters than they realize. Much of the low self-esteem portrayed on here has its IMMEDIATE origins in the homes of some of the female posters.. Few men or fathers hang around small girls telling them they’re ‘too Black’ or their hair is ‘bad’. Mothers and fathers have a responsibility and if we took our responsibilities as parents seriously, the present discussion/conflict would not be taking place.


  671. Menelik,

    Exactly. That’s part of the process to paint black people as dysfunctional, and the media is a huge part of that whether we accept it or not. Sure, one could say that it’s just TV, but like I asked in my blog post, why is that the only kind of “TV” that showcases black people in that light most of the time? Why is the kind of “entertainment” and “news” regarding black people is based on (mostly) negative stereotypes and nothing else? Yet, people say “it’s just entertainment”. Still, whether they realize it or not, they take that stuff in as unquestionable information, and that includes black folks.


  672. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 09:24:40 Menelik Charles

    Can you guys see the Facebook link above?


  673. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 09:52:50 Menelik Charles

    Really? About all those dreadful Black men fighting and dying to protect African-American women and girls, wives and daughters? Wow, when your own women start to whitewash and erase your (and their) own history, you know you’re in deep trouble, Brother!

    Hell hath no fury etc etc


  674. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 10:54:08 Menelik Charles

    I wonder who started this mess? I wonder who benefits? Oh, dont tell me, its….


  675. I’m hanging in here to give this discussion some balance. Some commenters here are not honest. I think this whole discussion is actually about IRR and Black men’s jealousy and bitterness about Black women dating and marrying out. Barely anything else that the BWE talks about is discussed. So, the title is misleading.

    BWE is being used as a shield to attack Black women’s IRRs. I think the BWE’s wide spectrum of topics are of great value to many Black American women and other Black women too. They cover finance, travel, health, nutrition, spirituality, reading, marriage, improving Black women’s media image, Black women making better choices in selecting men, family and so on. They talk a lot about Black women living higher quality lives.

    Even one with Evia talking about enjoying the White privilege of her husband (her exact words), that she’s since taken down out of embarrassment.

    She has not taken it down. She still has this in her sidebar and is selling it as a podcast. I’ve been reading her site and her focus is on more Black women marrying compatible men who share their values and goals.

    Why should this even be embarrassing? Many White and Asian women marry men of all races who can elevate their status in one way or another. I went to grad school with a lot of White and some Asian women. They talk about that a lot. Why shouldn’t Black women do this too? Do you think that those many slim blonde White women are marrying those crude Black NFL and NBA players (some who are barely literate) for love? They’re marrying them mainly for money and to elevate their status, or get privileges. You don’t see them getting with men who can’t offer them perks like that unless they don’t have a choice. Those women are not embarrassed and I don’t ever hear Black men complaining about that.


  676. Brothawolf , Im inclined to agree with you, you cant take four centuries of trying to say a people are sub human, then , after slavery ends, all beauty standards are set in favor of white people, and not have severe repercusions up into today

    The beauty industry is racist and never has understood the real beauty of the black woman.

    This is a travesty , because the black woman is the most extordinary example of grace and beauty in a woman


  677. This is sick as you end up with black men and women believing that black men somehow have sexual monopoly

    Several Black male commenters in this thread bragged about all of their “sexual and romantic currency” and I’ve read this in other places too. No Black men in this thread challenged those braggarts or pointed out the fallacy of that. Black men have flooded online forums with that super-size stud stereotype. No one else is doing that these days except for Black men and the foolish women who want their attention. So some people believe them.

    Sexual braggarts are a big turnoff to women who want serious, compatible men for long term relationships, so if some Black men can’t get women who are interested in those type relationships, they need to look in the mirror.


  678. The truth is–there is not a surplus of willing and submissive women for any man of any race–mating is a process.

    Submissive? I hear that word a lot among Black Americans. Some Black men seem to want a submissive, docile, passive, quiet, and obedient woman and Black American women who are fundamentalist Christians believe they should submit and obey men. If Black men want those women, they should attend those fundamentalist (Black or White) churches and meet them. Amish women are also known for being like that.

    The problem is that some men meet women like me and my friends and expect us to behave like those fundamentalist Christian women or Amish women.


  679. Jorbia, last I checked Abagond’s site was not a BWE site and this is where I am responding. I have checked out some BWE sites over the years but they are usually crewed by people with shaky grips on reality, hateful views of black men, extreme sensitivity to criticism and a need to ban anyone with opposing views. And anyway I’m generally not interested since I don’t share their problems. So you should ask other men why (if indeed) they go there. Judging by the lack of couth, grace and brain cells displayed by some BWE adherents here I’m not missing all that much.


  680. Stay classy Deepdarkchocolate.. continue to assume that you know anything about me or anything about black history. Because obviously you don’t. Unfortunately this appears to be a typical BWE female debating tactic-say something stupid, get called on it, deny you said it and launch ad hominem attacks. And we wonder why some women get bad reputations. Again, before you make factual claims on blogs where you might get called to account, maybe you should know what you’re talking about. That was and remains my only point. I wish there was a way I could type more slowly so this could sink in but alas, there isn’t.


  681. @ Satanforce…well stated.

    ” But the BWE/WoS will not have anything to do with facts, preferring instead to stick their fingers in their ears and chant their mantras of DBR and ankle, hoping that the facts will just go away. And when they don’t, they create even deeper delusions for themselves.”


  682. Shady Grady, there are going to be parts about any group’s message that any of us won’t agree with, but it seems to me that this whole discussion is actually about Black women’s IRRs, not about the BWE’s comprehensive message. If BWE women don’t like or want a Black man for whatever reason, that’s their business. Black men should go on to the next woman. None of us is going to be liked by everyone.

    You said you’re generally not interested in the problems that those women have and that’s your right. You’re being honest. Many of those women know that Black men like you are generally not interested in Black women’s problems. They’re generally not interested in Black men’s problems either. That’s their right.

    I have indeed been asking why there is so much fascination with the BWE since many here seem to think they are so horrible.


  683. To me, the worst part about this is that Blacks don’t seem to be able to just leave each other alone. They seem to just want to fight. I don’t agree with the BWE women talking negatively about Black men, but if they have had negative experiences with Black men, they are going to talk about that. Black men do the same. I rarely ever read where Black American men say sweet, loving things about Black American women in general. Yet, neither gender seems to want to leave the other alone either. Every fight causes more disdain and hate towards the other gender.

    When a Black woman like me says that I look towards men who are more loving towards me and with whom I am more compatible, and these men happen to be Non-Blacks, it’s Blacks who call me names or insult me.

    Some Black women like me want harmony in my relationships with men. We don’t want to fight or always be on the defense.

    I think that Black Americans men and women can learn a lot from Asian men and women when it comes to IRRs. Asian women marry out a lot. Asian men may gripe about it but they’ve accepted it and are not fighting about it or at least not openly.


  684. @ vindicator

    you said,i need to go out more. you need to go back and read correctley. i only quote what was written in the topic. then i gave 2 lines of my opinion.
    i don’t agree with everything these sistas are saying, but they not lieing either. some of you blackmen are garbage


  685. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 13:50:19 Menelik Charles

    Feminism was promoted by the CIA to destroy the family:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ2qxGAKIu4)

    Gloria Steinem was the handler for the ‘pioneering’ Black womanist, Alice Walker. Need I say more?


  686. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 14:01:12 Menelik Charles

    Alex Jones interviews the late Hollywood producer, and filmmaker, Aaron Russo, who reveals some of the REAL reasons for feminism which was funded by the CIA for very nefarious reasons…

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCpjmvaIgNA)


  687. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 14:56:26 Menelik Charles

    @ Shady_Grady,

    the illogical reasoning and downright lies of some on here is like kryptonite to reason and truth…its a bit like being tazered in the head. I mean, every damned thing they are guilty of, they accuse their victims of! How insane is that? The BWE, for example, are obsessed NOT with white men but with Black men, and their advocates on here accuse us of being obsessed with them and their mad message!

    I guess, the only consolidation for our dealings with these women is knowing they’ll always be unhappy, bitter, and forever seeking to force an embrace on Black men will most surely do not desire.

    Wouldn’t you be truly relieved if these women would bag a white man and just leave us the hell alone? I mean, seriously, the only people I know who attempt to build movements based on hate are white nationalist groups like the KKK. Both hate Black men above any other race or sex.

    Anyway, Bro check this video below. It might explain why women on here are soooo determined to make ‘the personal, political’


  688. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 14:58:21 Menelik Charles

    WHY ‘THE PERSONAL IS POLITICAL’:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix5-jqQYU1M&feature=email&email=comment_received)

    DADDY ISSUES UNLEASHED ON UNSUSPECTING MEN…DONT TAKE THE DADDY BAIT, BROTHERS LOL


  689. “Alex Jones interviews the late Hollywood producer, and filmmaker, Aaron Russo, who reveals some of the REAL reasons for feminism which was funded by the CIA for very nefarious reasons…”

    ******************

    Menelik

    *EVERYTHING* discussed in this video is absolutely true!

    Unfortunately this is only a small part of the whole parcel of what’s currently happening/unfolding. There’s much more subterfuge than what was shown in that brief interview.

    When or if this plan “they” have for us is completed, BWE will be the last thing on anyone’s mind. We should all know that every successful divide and conquer scheme (race, gender, class, religion, etc, etc) “they” have devised in every area of human existence SERVES to bring their plan to completion sooner rather than later – or not at all.

    It boils down to whether the people’s eyes will SEE enough to know who the REAL threat is – and how to mitigate this “nefarious” threat to humanity.


  690. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 16:21:40 deepdkchocolate

    Yeah we all know The C.I.A. implemented “feminism” and now Gloria Steinem. the feminist “leader” is currently married to actor Christian Blae’s Dayys and no doubt being very “submissive” to him..lol.


  691. “Several Black male commenters in this thread bragged about all of their “sexual and romantic currency” and I’ve read this in other places too. No Black men in this thread challenged those braggarts or pointed out the fallacy of that. Black men have flooded online forums with that super-size stud stereotype. No one else is doing that these days except for Black men and the foolish women who want their attention. So some people believe them.

    Sexual braggarts are a big turnoff to women who want serious, compatible men for long term relationships, so if some Black men can’t get women who are interested in those type relationships, they need to look in the mirror.”

    I agree! Instead of bragging about things that constitute a REAL man like responsibility, financial stability, goals, knowing how to treat, respect and appreciate a woman, taking care of his children, etc. Bragging about sexual currency seems so high school. And it’s meaningless.


  692. If women have daddy issues, who’s to blame? The DADDY. Men – be responsible and women wouldn’t have “daddy issues”.


  693. @ Jorbia

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching you being trounced all over this thread, but this statement of yours was just too hard to ignore.

    “I think that Black Americans men and women can learn a lot from Asian men and women when it comes to IRRs. Asian women marry out a lot. Asian men may gripe about it but they’ve accepted it and are not fighting about it or at least not openly.”

    I think that (BWE) Black American women should actually be more like Asian MEN SPECIFICALLY, when it comes to IRRs. Both groups are overwhelmingly picked last by whites of the opposite gender, but you don’t see self serving Asian men throwing their racial counterparts under the bus, because they desperately seek white validation like the degenerates from the BWE do. In a fashion that screams “opinion based compliant prostitute to white racial ignorance”. And if they ever did, they wouldn’t call the behavior something that it’s NOT in order to ATTEMPT to prevent any sort of scrutiny. Which the BWE harpies certainly do.


  694. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 20:42:44 Menelik Charles

    Bro Franklin,

    some on here are busy creating the new mad myth that there’s some resistance to Black women dating out: we are, in fact, demanding that they do and just cease harassing Black men!

    The envy has has even popped up in relation to white men: an astonishing projection of white males racial and masculine envy of Black males! What next Black men lynching white men from trees for whistling at Black women lol

    Who in their right mind wants women like them anyway? Already that young idiot has said over and again that Black men do not want to date Black women, and that they do not desire women with dark-skins and African features…now she’s saying we dont want white men to have them!

    Which is it schizo chick?


  695. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 20:46:58 Truth B. Told

    Typical BWE Bait and Switch Policy.

    BWE is being used as a shield to attack Black women’s IRRs. I think the BWE’s wide spectrum of topics are of great value to many Black American women and other Black women too. They cover finance, travel, health, nutrition, spirituality, reading, marriage, improving Black women’s media image, Black women making better choices in selecting men, family and so on. They talk a lot about Black women living higher quality lives.

    If BWE was nothing but talks about finance, health, travel, and meeting Rainbeaus, nobody would care. Anybody with 2 eyes and working common sense can see and know better. Any thread that deals with the aforementioned issues rarely receives above 25 replies on those sites, but let a thread be a DBR and it will number in the 100s.

    BWE bloggers and there adherents know this and manipulate this.

    Step 1: Blog about how no good those low down negro males are.
    Step 2: Wait for negro males and their “mammies” to reply to the initial assault
    Step 3: No matter how intelligent and well reasoned and on topic the counter attacks to the assault on BM are, hold BW up as “forbidden fruit” who are in danger of being lost to WM as the cause of negro male anxiety.
    Step 4: Keep repeating this process. If it happens enough someone might buy into the desirability of the BWE.


  696. on Sat 14 Jul 2012 at 20:52:57 Truth B. Told

    Sexual braggarts are a big turnoff to women who want serious, compatible men for long term relationships, so if some Black men can’t get women who are interested in those type relationships, they need to look in the mirror.”

    And please cease with this strawman. Nobody in this thread was sexually “bragging”. Menelik Charles simply pointed out what alot of sociological and anecdotal data suggests about the sexual marketplace. He was stating it as a point of reference to why the BWE are the way they are.


  697. @Franklin & Co–

    I’ll let readers determine whether what I said in this thread has validity, but you both sound quite threatened. That’s very telling.

    The BWE topics cover a wide spectrum, the least of which is Black American men. The posts I read do not mention Black men. I read posts that interested me.

    I continue to point out the value of the other BWE topics to Black American women. Black women in IRRs is only one aspect of what’s covered on those sites despite the fact that bitter Black men here want others to think it’s all about them.

    For some of us intelligent Black women, the world does not revolve around the likes of you.

    A piece of advice: stop reading those sites. Of course, you will deny that you read the sites as one of you said above, whereas I’ll bet you’re on them everyday sifting for any little tidbit about Black men because you’re hungry for attention. Don’t you realize that readers here are wondering why you’re on the BWE sites even trying to comment, at all. You’re men. Go and build something! Stop trying to crash women’s chat groups.Those women don’t want you there. Isn’t that obvious? Why do you keep trying to talk to them.


  698. jorbia,

    You said, “Several Black male commenters in this thread bragged about all of their “sexual and romantic currency”…”

    I’m curious. Like who?


  699. jorbia (continued)

    In all you wrote, “Several Black male commenters in this thread bragged about all of their “sexual and romantic currency” and I’ve read this in other places too. No Black men in this thread challenged those braggarts or pointed out the fallacy of that. Black men have flooded online forums with that super-size stud stereotype. No one else is doing that these days except for Black men and the foolish women who want their attention. So some people believe them.”

    Again, who on this thread has been bragging about their sexuality? I haven’t seen it, but if they are there, who are they specifically?

    Plus, and you may hate what I’m about to ask, but what other online forums are you going to? Are they the kinds of forums that YOU WANT to visit to validate the sexual promiscuity that black men and only black men seem to have? Why would you even want to go to these forums?

    I shouldn’t have to remind you of the history of black male sexuality in terms of racism.

    Then you mentioned, “Sexual braggarts are a big turnoff to women who want serious, compatible men for long term relationships, so if some Black men can’t get women who are interested in those type relationships, they need to look in the mirror.”

    I agree. Men who brag about their sexual exploits are childish to me. Granted. there are brothers who need to be schooled on their issues when it comes to relationships.

    That’s all I’m gonna say.


  700. @Brothawolf–

    First, let me say that because of a few Black MEN I’ve encountered on here, and because I have a Black father and other male family members who love me and because I know the history of America, I have restrained myself.

    Can’t you figure out the braggarts? It’s the usual suspects and members of their gang who crawl out every time.

    Plus, and you may hate what I’m about to ask, but what other online forums are you going to? Are they the kinds of forums that YOU WANT to visit to validate the sexual promiscuity that black men and only black men seem to have? Why would you even want to go to these forums?

    Brothawolf, excuse me for saying this, but apparently you don’t get out much if you don’t run across Black men online or offline crowing about their supposed sexual prowess or talking about all the women they can get or their sexual “currency” or higher need for sex since they are supposedly more masculine than other men.

    Related to that, they boast about how much more they marry out than Black women. I may marry a Non-Black man one day, but it won’t have anything to do with his skin shade, it’ll be about his qualities that increase the chances of a long, successful marriage. The highest failure rate of Black man-any type woman marriages proves that it’s not about quality in most of those marriages. So it mystifies me why they would boast about such a high degree of failure.


  701. @Brothawolf–

    I shouldn’t have to remind you of the history of black male sexuality in terms of racism.

    You definitely don’t have to remind me of that and that’s why it surprises me whenever I hear any Black man or Black woman refer to the supposed sexual superiority of Black men as if it’s a positive. It’s a myth, a terrible stereotype.

    That super stud label was put on Black males by White men who owned them during slavery, but it’s Black men and their groupies these days who won’t let that stereotype die. Practically any debate a Black woman has these days with Black American men, they will fall back on how sexually superior they supposedly are to other men or triumphantly mention that someone else (a supposed authority) stated this.

    Men who brag about their sexual exploits are childish to me.

    Yes, a severe case of arrested development. Thank you for saying this because maybe they will listen to you since you’re a man.

    Granted. there are brothers who need to be schooled on their issues when it comes to relationships.

    Yes, and this is why so many have failed relationships. They blame the failure on women though, but usually by that time, children have entered the picture.

    While reading through some posts on BWE sites, there was a lot of emphasis put on on teaching Black women to stay away from these childish Black men. However, many Black men consider this “bashing.” Many Black men are not ready or are obviously unfit for a relationship with a woman. From what I read, those are the men the BWE sites refer to as DBR. I don’t understand why regular men would be offended by that. If Black women are also childish or not ready or are unfit for a relationship, then men should stay away from those women. Sadly, many men flock to childish women.


  702. @ Jorbia

    Pointing out how inconsistent your logic is, and the fact that you keep ducking facts that disprove your “naive pipe-dream notions” doesn’t mean we’re threatened. You’re only helping the case of those against you, every time you deflect.

    You also give the BWE “movement” FAR too much credit if you think that it’s anything more than simplistic, head shaking, from an insignificant number of low grade, bitter, and burned out black women who have made bad choices in their lives. Who despite their unrealistically high opinion of themselves, now cry victim and need to lay blame on someone else because of their own lack of foresight. While it’s true that IRR’s are only one aspect of BWE talking circles, that’s still a very vague statement. One that you carefully worded in order to take the focus off of what we all see. While you all do dabble in other issues, overwhelmingly, it’s the main issue talked about on those sites.

    As for black men who shouldn’t visit BWE sites because the women don’t want them there, you can apply THAT VERY SAME LOGIC to BWE “movement” in regards to white men in general. Because time after time again, white men in aggregate have shown that, they don’t want you. No matter how shamelessly you pine after and pedestal them, while you throw black men under the bus.

    I mean “search for compatible men of quality”.


  703. @ Jorbia

    “While reading through some posts on BWE sites, there was a lot of emphasis put on on teaching Black women to stay away from these childish Black men. However, many Black men consider this “bashing.” Many Black men are not ready or are obviously unfit for a relationship with a woman. From what I read, those are the men the BWE sites refer to as DBR. I don’t understand why regular men would be offended by that.”

    You’re now being intentionally obtuse yet again, because it’s convenient. BWE sites in their ego soothing and failure shifting ways, routinely lambast black men with the qualifying terms of “all” or “most”. Or to be “clever” they will use phrases like “many black men”, (which given the context) denotes “most black men”, still.

    ” If Black women are also childish or not ready or are unfit for a relationship, then men should stay away from those women. Sadly, many men flock to childish women.”

    Except white men or any other type of non-black man, in aggregate.


  704. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 01:46:54 Truth B. Told

    The highest failure rate of Black man-any type woman marriages proves that it’s not about quality in most of those marriages. So it mystifies me why they would boast about such a high degree of failure.

    Oh yeah, another BWE talking point that needs to be addressed. BW have the highest divorce rate of any race/gender pair.

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hh-fam/cps2010.html

    BW 12.4%
    WW 11.2
    HW 9.2%
    AW 5.2%

    BM 9.1%
    WM 8.7%
    HM 6.2%
    AM 3.3%


  705. What is the obessesion from black people (this means both black men and black women) with whether or not whites care to marry us????????


  706. black women divorce rate is 12.4%. BM 9.1% and ,what is the point? this doesn’t prove anything about this topic.


  707. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 02:29:16 Truth B. Told

    I was replying to something that was said.


  708. “I agree. Men who brag about their sexual exploits are childish to me. Granted. there are brothers who need to be schooled on their issues when it comes to relationships. ”

    I agree! Anytime you overstate something, that is “bragging”. Now, talking about being responsible, taking care of his family, how well he treats his woman – those are all things to brag about.


  709. jorbia,

    Once again, YOU said, ““Several Black male commenters in this thread bragged about all of their “sexual and romantic currency”. I asked YOU who were they, and you haven’t answered my question yet.

    I also wanted to know what forums you do to, and why do YOU go to forums where black men boast about their sexuality and have black women backing them up. And I assumed that it was because you wanted to validate your notion you have of (some, I hope) black men.

    This question is about ONLINE FORUMS.

    However, I did go out when I was younger especially with my frat bros and roommates. When I hung around them or near them, their sexual prowess was hardly a subject of their conversations. I never heard any brotha growing up until now bragging about their “sexual conquests” of whatever. But that’s just my experience and I can not universalize it to most black men, especially the ones online.

    This makes me wonder what kind of forums you go to willingly. It seems to me that some of these forums are could be sexual. I could be wrong, and I hope you prove it to me.

    Then you said, “While reading through some posts on BWE sites, there was a lot of emphasis put on on teaching Black women to stay away from these childish Black men. However, many Black men consider this “bashing.” Many Black men are not ready or are obviously unfit for a relationship with a woman. From what I read, those are the men the BWE sites refer to as DBR. I don’t understand why regular men would be offended by that. If Black women are also childish or not ready or are unfit for a relationship, then men should stay away from those women. Sadly, many men flock to childish women.”

    From what I understand, DBR (Damaged Beyond Repair) means that those black men are eternally worthless who should be left alone permanently. Again, I could be wrong.

    The reason regular men would be offended by black women telling others to stay away from THOSE black men may be because some black women may not specially point to a certain type of black man. They may be talking about all black men.

    Case in point, and this is a true story from a while back, on Blackplanet.com there were two members who were black women who hated black men. One pretty much hated black PEOPLE because of the treatment she had from some black men, and married a well-to-do white man. The other was angry because she saw ONE black man with an Asian woman and she was pissed. And so, she hooked up with a white man in response.

    So, when it came to black men, one, a few, or some is never mentioned. With the case of these two black women, they were angry towards all black men. Some may not mean all or even most, but it is assumed that it what they mean.

    Nowadays, when it comes to different groups, anything said about a certain group that is usually negative or not-so-flattering is turned into a monolithic gaze of all of those within that group. Those who are offended are not necessarily guilty of anything, but they believe that the statement refers to everyone in that group regardless if they are part of the problem or not. It’s like they think they are lumped into one mold and they see that as unfair.


  710. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 03:29:50 Menelik Charles

    SW6,

    who here has taken issue with Black women’s dating choices? Please, I beg you, answer me that? The issue is the racist slurs against Black men, you silly ***** and nothing else! I say for the 5th time: I would sell my own mother if those women would date out forever, shut their damned mouths, and leave Black men the hell alone!

    Dont you get that the women on here are basically unwanted by any man who spends enough time with them to work out they are mentally unbalanced, clingy, and undatable? We just want them to get of our d*cks and live ‘n’ let live! You dont get this?

    What in God’s name have you been reading on here?


  711. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 03:35:26 Menelik Charles

    Phobe,

    which Black men on here has shown any interest whatsoever in who Black women date, marry or have sex with? That is a traditional and CONTEMPORARY CONCERNED OF WHITE MEN AND BLACK WOMEN not Black men or white women!


  712. ^My question was not specifically geared to any one single person on this thread.

    It was/is a simple question. That puts the responsibility on black people…..

    why do we still place value on whether or not whites want to marry us?


  713. Satanforce: Heheheheheh. Everything is going according to plan. After I put the seed in Abagond’s head all those months back, we’ve finally achieved our goal. So then, should I commence the data mining and proceed with the semiotic reconaissance?

    Satanfather: Proceed

    Satanforce: Goooooood!!!!


  714. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 06:31:41 Menelik Charles

    @ SW6,

    I note once again (isn’t this usually the case, brothers?) that my fairly straightforwards questions have not been answered lol

    I wonder why not?


  715. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 06:55:35 Menelik Charles

    Someone said “Black women are pressured to accept Black men with less education”…they need no prompting at all lol Its the Black men with education and prospects who have a hard time catching educated Black women in their prime…thugs, playas and the like (i.e. men with less education) have no trouble at all getting to lay ‘n’ play with educated Black women.

    Why so?

    Because educated Black women CHOOSE such men over those of their own social class, thats why!

    Why can’t people be honest on here? Or is it that honesty will expose such women as authors of their own misery?

    Hmmmmmm.


  716. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 11:57:50 Menelik Charles

    Here’s another example of a Black organization seeking to confront our problems head-on, and take responsibility for them:

    http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_9019.shtml


  717. @Franklin & Co–Let’s boil this down to what it’s really about. But first, get your dictionary. “Some” means some. “Many” means many. “Most” means most.

    Also, I’m not a weak-minded Black woman who gets woozy just because a Black man has spoken or written something. In other words, just because you say something does not make it so.

    1. Some of you Black males here are jealous and scared to death of the growing number of Black women you see dating and marrying out. You can minimize this growth all you want, but growth = growth. This is why this discussion supposedly about BWE is really a smokescreen for some Black men’s intense jealousy about Black women going into IRRs.

    2. You’re jealous because you know that once this takes root in the minds of younger Black women, it will not stop. It will continue to grow. This is because most Black American men don’t bring enough to the table to open up negotiations with Black women of a certain strata, but those are the women that most of you want. You have noticed that many of the BWE women are women of that exact type that you want.

    I wouldn’t exclude a Black American man if he brings enough to my table to get my attention. Men from different groups bring different packages to the table and men from different groups negotiate differently. I am not impressed with what most Black American men bring to a woman’s table or the way they negotiate (name-calling, insults, attempts to gaslight, whining, wild accusations, more name-calling, more insults, blaming Black women and Whites for their problems).

    Besides that, I know that most of you do not appreciate or value Black American women because you make barely any effort to protect, provide, or problem-solve for us. Men do this for the women they value. This is a very strong negotiation point.


  718. (continued)
    Some of the BWE site writers have pointed out the following:

    3. The interest of the “aggregate” of White men are not necessary for every Black woman, particularly of certain strata, who is interested to marry out because Whites outnumber Blacks Americans by such a huge margin. A Black woman wants the commitment from one compatible man, not the aggregate of men.

    4. Black women’s beauty is unique. We have no competition for our beauty. Some White and other Non-Black men are strongly attracted to our dense chocolate and brown skin shades, lips, noses, eyes, other physical features and to our being. It doesn’t matter what White men openly say or not. We are women and we know this because men reveal their interest in various ways. Most of you Black men can’t believe this because you don’t rate the beauty or appeal of Black women highly.

    5. Aside from our physical features, we have other qualities that appeal strongly to some White men. The general type of White man who appeals to a BWE-type woman is not a man who wants a submissive, obedient, passive, docile, quiet woman. This is the type of Black woman that many Black males want.

    6. The BWE type of Black woman has decided that if she is not able to find the type of quality man she seeks, she would rather be alone. She is not willing to go the route that many other Black women have gone with various Black men because she is intelligent enough to see the result of that among too many other Black women. She knows that she will lose-lose-lose just like they did.Or she may have experienced negative experiences with Black men herself and this is why she talks about this on those sites. Women share their experiences with men with each other, whether it’s online or offline. This is just what women do.

    There is no need to continue re-hash this. Black men of your type need to use your “currency” to go and find the kind of woman that you want. Many of the BWE type women are not interested. Some of you Black men must accept that and go on with your lives. Stop trying to fight Black women. That’s a guaranteed turnoff.

    Instead, as someone said above, use your time and energy to learn to organize to compete with other men for a portion of the control.


  719. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 12:55:42 Menelik Charles

    @Franklin,

    you see how mentally derange some people are on here? We say BWEs blame Black men for ALL of there problems, and then their moral perverts and narcissistic nitwits say we are blaming them and mighty whitey lol

    Lies and denials are the basis of all their communications with the big bad Black man! They infuriate and repel us but they’re but a booty-call-in-waiting for any white man clued-up to the madness they project!

    Lets erect a wall of silence on these truly sick ‘n’ evil women! Shall we give it a go? Talk among ourselves?


  720. I had to laugh so much when menelik charles said that black men and white women were the true ‘Romeo & Juliet’. Is this the same Romeo and Juliet who both killed themselves, and as a result of their deaths their families called off their feud, everybody got along and peace was restored? Hhmm, that’s not such a bad idea actually :)


  721. @Brothawolf–

    From what I understand, DBR (Damaged Beyond Repair) means that those black men are eternally worthless who should be left alone permanently. Again, I could be wrong.

    From the way I’ve seen DBR used, it doesn’t only refer to Black men. But I can understand why you might think so because many Black American women up to this point have mainly had relationships with only Black men.

    The reason regular men would be offended by black women telling others to stay away from THOSE black men may be because some black women may not specially point to a certain type of black man. They may be talking about all black men.

    You say they “may” be talking about all Black men, but “may” is 50-50, isn’t it? Realize that’s your fear projecting that meaning on what those women say. I believe that an intelligent woman can tell the difference between a man who protects, provides, and problem-solves for Black women versus one who is worthless to a Black woman. Men do not become adults overnight. They have a track record.

    And if the woman is not intelligent or childish, why would you be interested in her?

    Men look at a woman’s track record all the time. That’s why many Black men are saying that they don’t want a Black woman with a potentially problematic track record (OOW children).


  722. @SW6–

    I really appreciate your further breaking it down to some readers here what I’m saying.

    Some Black American women have finally learned the importance of emphasizing the type of relationship that is best for them as well as the type of men who are most likely compatible with them, their values, and goals. This is not based on skin shade.

    BTW, I’ve not seen her identify as a BWE follower. I’ve just seen her presenting ideas from her female perspective. She has not been throwing anyone under the bus.

    It was Abagond who posted the BWE sites. Were we not supposed to read them and discuss the entire range of topics on the BWE sites?

    Anyone here can go and read those sites. I’ll bet I’m not the only one who been doing a lot of reading lately of some of the posts.

    A woman ought to date whoever meets her standards, if the person is white/another colour, so be it. See how simple that is people!

    This simple message is plastered all over and through those BWE posts. How could this be missed?


  723. on Sun 15 Jul 2012 at 14:58:20 Truth B. Told

    There is no need to continue re-hash this. Black men of your type need to use your “currency” to go and find the kind of woman that you want. Many of the BWE type women are not interested. Some of you Black men must accept that and go on with your lives. Stop trying to fight Black women. That’s a guaranteed turnoff.

    You need to take your own advice. This is not a BWE site, so why are you here so vigorously defending BWE to us “lowly negro males”? What do our opinions matter since any day now White men are going to send buses to black neighborhoods to gather up all the BWE type Black women so y’all can live together in mansions, LOL.

    Truth is you would rather be here “fighting” us males cause deep down inside you know you should be fighting with White women, Latinas, and Asian women for the affection of White males. You kinda already know what the score is, so you would rather BS with this false meme of Black men fighting with Black women to avoid competing with other males, when the truth is it is BWE that are avoiding competition with other females, because they know they will have their overrated fat asses handed to them.


  724. Truth is you would rather be here “fighting” us males cause deep down inside you know you should be fighting with White women, Latinas, and Asian women for the affection of White males. You kinda already know what the score is, so you would rather BS with this false meme of Black men fighting with Black women to avoid competing with other males, when the truth is it is BWE that are avoiding competition with other females, because they know they will have their overrated fat asses handed to them.

    You and your gang of males are here ganging up on one woman. Me. You sound annoyed that I haven’t become submissive, docile, passive, obedient and quiet.

    You’re failing at negotiating by calling Black women “fat asses.” Tut! Tut!

    No, intelligent Black women don’t engage in hen-fighting! It’s only stupid women who squabble or fight over men. There are too many men in the world.

    I know you find it impossible to believe but some White men prefer the unique beauty and being of Black women. More and more of them are actually marrying Black women every day. You can discount the amount of growth in that number, but growth =growth. Once upon a time, White men barely showed interest in Asian women, but just look at how that’s grown. Change comes.

    Some White and Non-Black men consider Black women’s beauty to be on a par with other women’s beauty or just simply prefer it because it’s unique. Some White men are open to all attractive Non-White women. Some White men are open to attractive women period. Some rate compatibility much higher than skin shade or hair texture. I realize that’s a shocker to some Black men.

    The fact is that it doesn’t take many White men from such an enormous White population to marry those still relatively small number of Black women who are on a certain strata and are interested in marrying out.

    What do our opinions matter since any day now White men are going to send buses to black neighborhoods to gather up all the BWE type Black women so y’all can live together in mansions,

    The fact is that those Black women in Black neighborhoods are most likely much more interested in a Black man like you. So you see, there are plenty of Black women aside from the BWE women and their supporters or followers for males like you. Or you can use some of that famous Black man’s “currency” that you co-signed to get a Latina, Asian or other woman. I vaguely recall you talk a few times about your Asian girlfriend. Guess you’ve already used some of that currency.

    I hope that Black women reading this will wonder why it is that Black men like you don’t have this intense interest in non-BWE women.

    Now go and find a way to organize to compete with other males. That would be more manly of you and you would be less bitter..


  725. @Truth B. Told

    Damn straight.
    Jorbia is projecting and nothing more. The BWE like herself probably blame black american men for black american women’s obesity rate, abortion rate, multiple kids by different men, turning lesbian because black men are on the “down low” and having to “marry down” with black men when they do that with white men “they’re a catch”.

    Just a bunch of deluded hypocritical race based misandrist cultists – BWE


  726. @Jasmin

    According to the latest BLS data, Black men in the US earn a whopping $68.00 a week on average more than black woman. I suspect this HUGE gap will close as more black women than men continue to earn college degrees.

    Maybe, maybe not. Educational attainment isn’t the only factor that determines a demographics average wage. Men and women tend to be attracted to different types of degrees and careers/jobs. Also, women tend to work less hours than men in the United States. Not to mention sex discrimination. It all depends.


  727. on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 01:41:24 Menelik Charles

    Hey guys,

    can you see this:

    http://www.toondoo.com/cartoon/5146221

    Notice how the negative comments allegedly deriving from the Black community i.e. Black men sounds suspiciously like those coming from the mouths of, typically, mothers who operate dysfunctional homes? The same mothers who said ‘you’re black ‘n’ ugly’ and you’ve ‘bad hair’.

    These women simply crawl with clues as to whence they came, they really do! Stick around, more will emerge lol


  728. jorbia,

    You said, “You say they “may” be talking about all Black men, but “may” is 50-50, isn’t it? Realize that’s your fear projecting that meaning on what those women say. I believe that an intelligent woman can tell the difference between a man who protects, provides, and problem-solves for Black women versus one who is worthless to a Black woman. Men do not become adults overnight. They have a track record.”

    Like I said, they MAY BE talking about some or all, but without seeing those specific words, just like if a racist white person says “black people love to protect their criminals” black men, guilty or not, will likely become offended. It’s no different if I were to say that black women have bad attitudes. (I’m not saying they do. Just making a point here.)

    And just for the record, I wasn’t projecting fear.

    Then you asked, “And if the woman is not intelligent or childish, why would you be interested in her?”

    Some men would be interested in those kinds of women because they like it when they are subordinate to protect their male ego to compensate his hidden shortcomings.

    And then you said, “Men look at a woman’s track record all the time. That’s why many Black men are saying that they don’t want a Black woman with a potentially problematic track record (OOW children).”

    I can’t speak for those black men, but I will say that there definitely a double standard with the issue of dating and sex. I won’t deny that.

    It seems to me that you’re expecting black men to be “better” (for lack of a better word) than other men especially in a male dominated society like this. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be, but how can black man rise above this “man box” that many of them find themselves in? I’m just wondering.


  729. Also jorbia,

    I will admit that I have been conditioned to think a certain way about women and myself as a man. And it’s likely evident in my responses to you. For that, I do apologize.

    I slo admit, part of me was kind of offended, but another part of me was also interested in your responses.


  730. on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 05:02:08 Menelik Charles

    Truth B. Told said:

    Truth is you would rather be here “fighting” us males cause deep down inside you know you should be fighting with White women, Latinas, and Asian women for the affection of White males. You kinda already know what the score is, so you would rather BS with this false meme of Black men fighting with Black women to avoid competing with other males, when the truth is it is BWE that are avoiding competition with other females, because they know they will have their overrated fat asses handed to them.

    Menelik says:

    good heavens, Truth B. that is truth right there, and delivered on a silver platter to whom it may concern lol


  731. Wow, just barf inducing levels of cowardice and chauvinism. Well, its out there now. If BWE is supposed to be about getting your schit together and living your own life, why all the focus on who’s banging who? All this commotion seemed to have swelled up around that and that alone.


  732. on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 09:49:40 Menelik Charles

    The denial is unending:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TDDZWPEL50&feature=related)

    Truth is like kryptonite to some folk!


  733. @peanut
    Do not let the likes of menelik charles get you down my dear, so called men like him only exist online. His obsession with finding the worst in black women is so sad you can’t help but laugh at and pity the male. Notice I said ‘male’ because a real man doesn’t bicker back and forth with women online. I’m so shocked he’s from England because here in the UK 99% of people really couldn’t care less about other people dating interracially, most black men and women just mind their own business and do their own thing. If he really didn’t care his lone voice wouldn’t be screeching throughout this post. He seems to find validation and comfort in his observation that black men are ‘winning’ in the race for European affection lol. Thank God a lot of African descended men in the real world think more along the lines of ‘Brotherwolf’ and ‘The Cynic’. Peanut, just thank God he doesn’t live anywhere near you, and just do what I do and scroll past his posts.
    Romeo will soon find his Juliet, let them both meet their tragic end… :)


  734. @ Bulanik–

    Sometime last year you and I were involved in a similar discussion on another thread. Like SW6, I found your line of reasoning far more interesting than the ad hominems another commenter wanted to direct at you because he simply disagreed.

    Why? Because the pureness of your rationality and the eloquence it was enclosed in, was far more compelling.

    There are many Black American women besides me who could participate here to take this discussion to a more meaningful, productive level, but they’re not willing to do so and we can see why.

    That’s why I said above that Black Americans don’t have effective communication.

    When any type of important discussion starts, the usual suspects come to jump in and try to turn it into a circus or shift the focus to Black men. Black American men are used to having the focus of any discussion about Black issues on their concerns, not on Black women’s concerns. One Black male above admitted that the problems of Black women that are discussed by the BWE are not his problems. He is honest. He doesn’t see it as his responsibility to help Black women to problem-solve, but he would still expect for Black women to help Black men. How conveniently selfish.

    Black American men generally only want to discuss Black problems when the problems are mainly Black MALE problems. It seems obvious that much of the anger directed at the BWE is done so because the BWE women are keeping the focus of their discussions on Black women’s needs or concerns, for a change. I think it’s about time.


  735. @Brothawolf–

    Like I said, they MAY BE talking about some or all, but without seeing those specific words, just like if a racist white person says “black people love to protect their criminals” black men, guilty or not, will likely become offended. It’s no different if I were to say that black women have bad attitudes. (I’m not saying they do. Just making a point here.)

    I personally think that sometimes Blacks are too sensitive. Yes, White racists say what they say with malevolent intent, but sometimes those criticisms of Blacks are issues that Black Americans need to make it a priority to face and fix. They need to fix them because those issues are definitely destroying Black Americans and rendering Blacks as people that no one wants to be around, including other Blacks.

    I read some of the comments of some of the BWE women on one of the sites. Likewise, they don’t want to have anything to do with those Black men who they view as behaving like DBRs. I didn’t read anywhere where any of them said that all Black men are DBRs.

    Insofar as Black women with “bad attitudes” I would bet that most of my attackers in this thread consider me to be one of that same type of Black woman. You may not realize it but too many Black American men feel entitled to impose themselves on us or talk to Black American women in very degrading ways and feel we should just submit to the degradation. They don’t generally treat Non-Black women in that way. I am not going to accept that kind of treatment quietly.


  736. @Brothawolf–

    Some men would be interested in those kinds of women because they like it when they are subordinate to protect their male ego to compensate his hidden shortcomings.

    So you’re saying these insecure, childish men seek out unintelligent, childish women. That’s a recipe for disaster, especially for the OOW children.

    And then you said, “Men look at a woman’s track record all the time. That’s why many Black men are saying that they don’t want a Black woman with a potentially problematic track record (OOW children).”

    I can’t speak for those black men, but I will say that there definitely a double standard with the issue of dating and sex. I won’t deny that.

    Thanks for the honesty because we can all see what’s happening. You, as a man, benefit from the double standard. Men know it’s wrong but they keep quiet since they’re benefiting. That’s the same as the generally “nice” Whites who stay quiet as they benefit from racism.

    It seems to me that you’re expecting black men to be “better” (for lack of a better word) than other men especially in a male dominated society like this. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be, but how can black man rise above this “man box” that many of them find themselves in? I’m just wondering.

    It must be wonderful to be a Black man and have those male privileges and that’s why you stay in the “man box.” Honestly,I can’t say that I would give up my privileges either, if I were a man. I would think that Black men would be uniquely able to have total empathy for Black women since Black men have experienced racism. Apparently, it does’t work like that in most cases, yet Black American men generally expect for Black women to have empathy for them.


  737. The problem that i have had with this whole discussion is that it has gone back and forth with damning generalizations and statistics to further impale and destroy black men and black women–what the fly f***? No really, what the flying f***ery?

    In the past year the commotion and articles that have been published in the black blogsphere would leave ordinary, unassuming black men and women who have healthy and functional romatic relationships with each other to believe that lots of other blacks are rushing into the arms of white people for solace!

    Let’s be quite balanced and fair–not every black man is lusting after ww–in fact not even most according to the recent U.S. Census and the Toldson and Marks study, but you would never know this if you take your cues from overinflated athletes and certain black male entertainers…there is also no evidence with the black marriage/dating rates according to national averages– to suggest that black women truely believe offline that their black husbands are not providing protection, and financial stability. Is it perfect? No. Could it be better yes? Yes. But it ain’t ALL that bad.

    I will ask it again as my question on this thread seemed to have been ignored religiously–why the hell do we care whether or not whites care to marry us?

    Why are some in this thread believing black women should be competing with ww? Let’s look at some real facts shall we: it is ww who perhaps feel inadequate at times because 99% of the Loreal, Maybelline, Clinque, Estee Lauder, hair removal, Pantene, Olay for wrinkles and crowsfeet are targeted to them! Look at most commericals–i am lead to believe that it is all about their problems! Yet somehow ww are naturally superior to WoC.

    My next question:why are some on this thread believing wm don’t cheat, listen to women more effectively, don’t walk out on their families and will provide a safe panel for women to discuss their issues? Really? I guess these sites are figments of my imagination?

    http://www.nomarriage.com
    http://www.happierabroad.com

    I guess a whole body of literature written by white American women who claim that many white men have Peter Pan Syndrome is figments of their imaginations too.

    Really i don’t care who another black man or woman is romatically tied to , but all i ask is for people to be honest with themselves and each other and the world around them. Don’t lump the 88% of black men and black women married to each other happily and taking full responsibilty for our livelihoods into your IRR preferences…

    I have searced for blogs that cater to the issues of black/black marriages and relationships and have only found at best two that are really not half assing it.
    But i have no problems coming across a plethora of black blogs and thread writtend for us and by us that have no problems tearing our esteem into shreads and uplifting whites of the opposite sex, when in the real world the first two blogs are closer to the truth.

    Really, really suspect.


  738. on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 16:00:47 Menelik Charles

    @ Phoebe,

    have you noticed (or at least assumed) that men such as myself are attached to Black women and not once have we taken issue with Black women dating out or have attacked white men (the traditional and contemporary oppressors of our people…fact NOT fiction)? We have responded ONLY to attacks on Black men as a group and the variety of false allegations and half truths.

    I know not whether you possess any empathy for Black men who just live normal lives trying to overcome the stereotypes and assumptions others make of them but you must surely know that we would most certainly desire for women who claim not to want us to just leave us alone in peace and live their lives. What the BWE merchants represent is a perversely white-male supremacist expression of self-hatred projected outwards: a group of women who refuse to let it go, and be happy.

    Maybe you can place a male loved one in the position we Black men on here find ourselves in: maybe then you’ll understand the utter evil we are up against. Copy and paste the various slurs made against us by Black women on here and then visit a racist site such as Stormfront and see if they dont match up: I challenge you!

    The is not six of one and half a dozen of the other: this is a straight case of Black men being racially bullied for no other reason than their sex and race. To make matters even more disgusting our enemies are themselves claiming to be our victims. Well, if they are now free, why not let others be free to live their lives as they choose?

    Instead, I seriously believe these women’s unhealthy racial and sexual obsession with Black males is genocidal in nature to the extent whereby they would even quietly celebrate the death of someone like Trayvon Martin because its one less Black kid to worry about.

    I believe this!

    Meanwhile in the world around them, white men are using the mass media to marginalize, ignore or to defame Black women such as themselves in favor of Bi-racial women in films and tv. Only when they intend on depressing (oppressing) or pathologizing Black people as a group do they use BLACK women in ABC Specials to bring BLACK women to the mainstream table. They have divided us, destroyed our families and made our women into virtual angry, self-loathing, shemales with the worst qualities of both sexes!

    And you wonder why “most Black salons dont actually know how to do Black hair”? Its because Black hair is perceived by the masses of Black women as abnormal or bad hair…as is a dark skin on females. These are insidious lessons they learned as children at the feet of their own mothers, aunts, grandmothers etc.

    Any mention of these facts citing Black women as the primary enemy of Black women’s psychological well-being?

    Nope.

    There exists a deep loathing of self in the hearts of many Black women, and they feel Black men have got off lightly because we are male, and our masculinity and sex is paraded as ‘alpha’ in the mainstream (actually, its a deeply destructive image which has a profound impact on the mass of fatherless Black boys). Some Black women attach themselves sentimentally to the most vile aspects of the BWE position because it provides them with white society’s traditional scapegoat…men who derive from the wombs of Black women.

    Anyway, I can virtually promise you that one day within the next five years, a study will emerge whose findings will be more devastating and shameful than the doll studies which shocked African-Americans in the 1950s. IT will feature Black women and its findings will be undisputed. When or if this study emerges, the BWEs will be seen by the whole of Black America for what it truly is, and its women will be pitied rather than scorned.

    Thank you.


  739. @abagond
    this thread is getting so big it is lagging wordpress

    @menelik
    that reaction formation theory is very interesting, a lot to consider.

    @wilson
    “From the above, I can say that an individual that picks his/her mate primarily based on his/her physical looks has issues, if you ask me.”

    just my preference, tried and true.

    @menelik & peanut & Mr Laurelton Queens
    people choose each other.

    @jorbia
    “That’s why I consider this a major overreaction. Abagond posted about 8 websites of BWE writers, but how many websites are there on the internet?”

    Nicely put. It goes to show the power of the media, how a sitcom can gain so much traction in peoples’ heads, promoting stereotypes, Hollywierd’s agenda, etc. Similarly, the US economy is in the shitter, everyone is suffering pretty badly. But we see MTV “cribs” (is that on TV anymore? I don’t even know) and celebrity reality shows program all americans that we need to live like royalty to enjoy life.

    @Mr Laurelton Queens
    “Rainbeaus pick {BF’s} last in every dating category.”

    my god man, what gave you this idea? Apparently IRR’s are not for you, that’s fine.

    I live in the frickin ghetto man, anyone can be a hoodrat, any time, any gender, race, religion or other particular philosophical bent.

    I just want a nice black girlfriend with a job and that wants to do something with her life, is that too much to ask?

    @all
    Also, I’m only 2nd generation American. Some of us white people actually had not one thing to do with what happened here antebellum. Thanks, and have a great day.

    Oh yeah, take your kids away from that fucking TV!!!

    “wanna do me in cause I won’t give back that little black girl”
    -jane’s addiction


  740. @phoebeprunelle–

    I will ask it again as my question on this thread seemed to have been ignored religiously–why the hell do we care whether or not whites care to marry us?

    I didn’t respond to your comment because I don’t know exactly what you’re asking or who you’re asking. Who do you mean by “we”? All Black Americans are not one person.

    I know from experience that it’s very difficult to have a discussion about anything like Black women in IRRS with a Black woman who sounds like you because we have very different world views. I accept your world view, but I doubt whether you accept mine. That’s fine, but then it’s best to not try to have this discussion with each other. But just in case you want to know how I think, I’ll tell you.

    You mention “solace.” I don’t speak for every Black woman who dates out, but I’m not looking for “solace” when I go out with White men. I generally prefer the behavior of White men. You sound as if you believe that a Black woman should only be with a Black man. So, if you read about Black women in IRRs, you conclude it’s because they’re seeking “solace.”. Not me.

    This sounds similar to the way some Black American men think that the only reason a Black woman goes out with a White man is because he supposedly has more money. A White man is a man and I am a woman. The behavior of the White men I encounter is much more in sync with my values and expectations of the way a man is supposed to behave.


  741. @phoebeprunelle–

    My next question:why are some on this thread believing wm don’t cheat, listen to women more effectively, don’t walk out on their families and will provide a safe panel for women to discuss their issues? Really? I guess these sites are figments of my imagination?

    I don’t know who you’re referring to, but I’ve never said that I think that White men in aggregate are paragons of virtue. I don’t go out with the aggregate of White men. I go out with one White man at a time.

    Don’t lump the 88% of black men and black women married to each other happily and taking full responsibilty for our livelihoods into your IRR preferences…

    According to Pew Research in 2010, 22% of Black men who married in 2008 married outside their race and a total of 16% of Blacks who married married Non-Black women. This is the new pattern, so it seems that the “88%” is not accurate today.
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2010/10/755-marrying-out.pdf

    But if as you say, 88% of Black American couples are happily doing their thing, then I wonder why the BWE gets any attention at all. The excessive amount of attention focused on this small group of women is what’s highly suspicious.

    I think you need to ask some of the Black American men here point blank why they care about what’s on the BWE sites or care so much what that tiny group of women thinks. I’m sure you know that women are going to talk about their experiences with men whether it’s online, or offline.

    Why do some men here care whether all of those BWE women date and marry out. That topic is obviously a big part of this post.


  742. I think black men should empower themselves by marrying/f***ing white women. Less stress, more financially stable, and they don’t need that much in child support, hair care money etc. Will you support my movement?


  743. Mistake– I meant that Pew said that 16% of Blacks who married in 2008 married Non-Blacks. So the number is growing and we all need to be aware of that.


  744. on Mon 16 Jul 2012 at 17:42:27 Menelik Charles

    Jorbia said:

    But if as you say, 88% of Black American couples are happily doing their thing, then I wonder why the BWE gets any attention at all. The excessive amount of attention focused on this small group of women is what’s highly suspicious.

    Menelik says:

    why do the FBI and CIA respond to lone threats to assassinate the President of the USA?

    Simple question.


  745. @ Thomas

    “this thread is getting so big it is lagging wordpress”

    Right, this is becoming a long thread. I disembedded all the videos. That should make it load faster.

    @ All

    Please put links to YouTube between parens to prevent them from embedding videos. The thread is getting too long to allow embedded videos.


  746. @Menelik–

    why do the FBI and CIA respond to lone threats to assassinate the President of the USA?

    So in your analogy, you and your cohorts are the FBI and CIA, and the women of the BWE are a “threat?”

    That’s insane. I told you at the beginning of this thread that you are paranoid. I’ll bet that if you saw me walking down the street holding h