The Broken Africa stereotype

Tue 13 Mar 2012 by abagond

Somewhere in Africa in a place called Kenya

The Broken Africa stereotype is one of the main ways Americans picture Africa: a violent hellhole, savage and cruel, a place of war, genocide, famine, slums, disease, failed states, refugee camps, etc. Aids, malaria and Ebola. Idi Amin, Mugabe and now Kony. Rwanda and Darfur. Somali pirates. Corrupt government officials. Child soldiers. Black men raping virgins to spread Aids. The heroes of this piece? White saviours, like Bono and Miss Jolie.

White people to the rescue!

Africa was, is and always shall be backward. Anything good in Africa comes from outside. Africans can never do anything right – and never will. James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA who should know a thing or two about genes, said he was:

inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really.

I used to think this picture was a side effect of the Western press, which makes a living off of bad news, and Western NGOs, which make a living off of helping the helpless – making Africa the Country into a land of bad news and helpless people. Not so: the stereotype goes way back, to the 1700s, to the days of the slave trade.

War, famine, disease and evil men are found throughout the world and throughout history, not just in Africa. So why does the image of a Broken Africa stick?

The Rule of How Mud Sticks:

When blacks do something bad or whites do something good, it is largely due to inborn qualities – like “black” crime and “white” inventions.
When blacks do something good or whites do something bad, it is an exception or largely due to circumstances – like black inventions and white crime.

This creates an imbalanced, racist picture of Africa:

Mugabe? Proof that blacks are unfit for rule. Hitler? A madman.
The Rwandan genocide kills 800,00 Tutsis? Proof of how violent Africans are. The German genocide kills 6 million Jews? That was an exception. The Germans killed 100,00 Hereros in Namibia? Another exception.
Middle-class Nairobi or Luanda? Exceptions. The slums of Nairobi and Luanda? Proof of how screwed up Africa is.
African civilizations? They tell us nothing. Primitive tribes in out-of-the-way places? The True Africa.

Somewhere in Africa in a place called Kenya

Like most stereotypes it is two parts self-serving lie and one part projection:

Projection: It was the West that broke Africa. It was the West that was savage. It was the West that could not run things properly. Before whites showed up Timbuktu had more people than London and its schools were better known at the time than Oxford and Cambridge. After whites appeared over 17 million died in the slave trade and the slave wars.
Self-serving lie: The stereotype did not arise till the 1700s to excuse the slave trade – and later grew in strength during the white rule of colonialism. That Africa is poorer than Europe and North America has nothing to do with whites robbing it of human labour and mineral wealth. No, Africa is broken by nature.

White people to the rescue!

Picture credits:

The first picture was taken by photojournalist Kate Holt, who works for the British media and NGOs. If you click on the picture it leads to her blog where you can find out more about the picture and about her.

The first two pictures are from Dadaab, a vast refugee camp in Kenya where hundreds of thousands have fled famine and war in Somalia.

The third picture is from a coffee house in an upmarket Nairobi mall – also in Kenya. It is by Noor Khamis for Reuters and appeared in the South African press.

See also:

Posted in stuff | 318 Comments

318 Responses

on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 12:39:29 Matari

Truthfully stated, Abagond.

Now let the trolling begin!
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 12:54:42 anglesanddimensions

Portraying the affluent class of Africa side-by-side doesn’t negate the fact that the sorry picture of Africa exists. It only serves to show the extreme inequality that exists in the region.

The poverty in Africa is shown with a purpose, and not a humanitarian one. It is used to show that Africans are inherently screwed up, they can’t govern themselves and hence they need American and European [conditional] aid, foreign soldiers on their ground, foreign control on their resources. To back this theory up they show the ‘benevolent whitey’ side by side.

In my country, India, I’ve seen many holding up the 58 dollar billionaires of India when they want to portray their country as a ‘good’ place. Nationalism obscures one to reality and makes them resort to absurdity when someone points out something that’s wrong in their country. Obviously, 58 dollar billionaires are a shame in a country whose 80% live under Rs.20 ($1=about Rs 50) per day.
But there’s one thing that must be mentioned about those who point out that something is wrong in a country – usually they are the ones trying to establish their superiority over another. You will see how the tone changes when you bring up IMF, World Bank, their conditional loans and aids, wars, sanctions etc imposed by the UN, US & Co because those point towards all the evils that their countries are doing, and they know they’re beneficiaries of it.

I have only one thing to say to those in the first world who point towards the poverty in third world countries – protest against your govt policies, stand up against the wars that your countries wage against others(Libya used to be one with a good HDI before Obama & Co. bombed it to the ground, and yes, sponsored the killing of blacks in Libya by the rebels). If you don’t, then stop whining and shove your charity up your backside. Don’t use poor people as an excuse to feel good without doing anything good.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 13:20:15 leigh204

You know what I find repugnant? You see the media showing the likes of Bono and Angelina Jolie shaking hands with some of the populace, “Oh, look. We are trying to make a difference in Africa.” They don’t deserve recognition. Other people have been doing it for years. Did they smile for the camera and get a pat on the back for helping those in need?
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 13:22:47 Oyan (@Oy_aN)

I understand that this blog points out what was/is wrong with the evil behavior of Europe/whites and how they mangled and continue to mangle Africa/black, but, what is ‘wrong’ with Africa that this was possible. I was listening to a Youtube vid, and this professor , Dr Amos Wilson, spoke on how Europe attempted this horror on China, was initially successful, but the Chinese were able to repel them. ‘Other’ groups keep coming for us, why is that? There is this parable, “when you act like sheep, people will act like wolves”.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 13:27:56 Bulanik

@Oyan
Please could you share the link to the video where Dr Wilson talks about that?
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 14:25:42 JC

What are your thoughts on the Arab slave trade? Slavery was not just a phenomenon of the West and Europe.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 14:31:11 abagond

JC

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/the-arab-trader-argument/
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 15:24:58 JC

Very interesting article on the “Arab Trader Argument.” It would be futile trying to compare or judge which was worse. My feeling is that the European slave trade is still highly remembered due to the ever-lasting presence of NGOs in Africa, particularly when they are fueled by projections and self-serving lies.

On the other hand there aren’t any current issues that allow bringing up the Arab slave trade.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 15:36:36 lokey

@angelsanddimension
Hello from your fellow countryman . I dont know if you are in the US or in India, but I guess you got the picture, the Imperial narrative of the colonized has always been designed to shame the colonized into thinking the other (colonizer) is great while making the colonizer feel superior to the colonized.

Gandhi called this phenomena: Drain inspection. The chief artist of this deception against India was an American white woman (who was also a racist, anti-immigrant conservative who would fit right in with the loonatic racists of the tea party of today).

You can read more here: http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2006/02/teaching-journal-katherine-mayos.html

She was hijacked by the British propaganda machine and because she was white and American, most people in the US and UK (and more shamefully our own Indians) brought this racist/biased narrative.

Now you can see that this culture continues by way of rented-negroes (in these case rented-Indians) see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17377895

@abagond:
I just looked at the comments, it is hilarious that the Arab trader argument popped up like clockwork. These guys are like automatons!
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 15:56:21 abagond

@ JC

My feeling is that the European slave trade is still highly remembered due to the ever-lasting presence of black people in the Americas.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 16:11:31 lokey

As if on cue:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57398804-10391698/george-clooney-arrested-during-protest-at-sudanese-embassy/

It is becoming so predictable and hollow.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 16:12:50 Satanforce

I’m so glad that I found this website. I myself am very interested in Africa, but I didn’t know how to go about, so the second thing I did was come to this website and read this article.

The first thing I did changed my life.

Today I learned that there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. That idea was shown to me through the this powerful video that is perhaps the greatest piece of educational material that has been produced in the last half-century.

And it will change your life.

I have raised my awareness about the wars in Africa, Uganda and Sudan that this madman Kony has caused. We will fix the problems of those poor children by killing this mad dog, just like the Americans did with Bin Laden and Saddam.

You will notice how the film lacks any of the sentimental rubbish found in Hollywood flicks today, and relies on facts and actual people to make its case . Its the new style

- use mainly jump cuts, nothing more than 10 seconds long, then cut to a slightly longer emotional appeal
- generate massive social media penetration by doing a one year slow build,
- use film as jump off to sell merchandise
-quantity of examples instead of quality of argument

, kinda like that documentary series “Everything is a Remix.” Cool huh?

Now I’m off to play with my Invisible Children merchandise, complete with Joe Kony villlainous action figure!! Toodles!!!
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 16:28:41 Bulanik

(Bullanik wags her finger at Satanforce)

Bad, Satan, bad! You must really try to wean yourself off all the emotional porn that white people love so much!
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 16:54:57 Franklin

It’s funny, because the time I spent in both Edo State and Lekki Nigeria was simply fantastic. There are many spots that are incredibly modern and over looked, while there were many spots that were poor and over exposed. The people though, were more aware of their situation then the (whites) West give them credit for.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 17:14:23 Satanforce

It’s funny, because the time I spent in both Edo State and Lekki Nigeria was simply fantastic. There are many spots that are incredibly modern and over looked, while there were many spots that were poor and over exposed. The people though, were more aware of their situation then the (whites) West give them credit for.

You were in Niggeria? OMG!! What was it like.!??? I know it mustn’t have been easy, having to share your food with the natives and all, but you did at least get to play some lions , yeah?

Bad, Satan, bad! You must really try to wean yourself off all the emotional porn that white people love so much!

If you are going to use the word “porn” with me, please include the word “PAAG” or “PAWG”. That’s the only context in which it makes sense to me.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 17:27:45 truthbetold

@ Abagond
I will respond later when I have more strength.
My heart is weary from the last post on the killings of our people.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 18:40:12 anglesanddimensions

@lokey
Hi!(Punjab? Am from Kolkata) Among the many issues with Gandhi’s observations is that he failed to grasp the cause-and-effect relations and thus reached a wrong conclusion. While I do agree that colonizers and neo-colonizers everywhere try to paint the colonized people as horrid, irrational people unable to govern themselves and I do caution myself and others against accepting accounts by colonizers without solid evidence as they’re most likely liars, I do not agree with the approach taken by Abagond here, or nationalists at home to counter such ‘drain inspections’.

Drains need to be inspected. Not by degenerates like Katherine Mayo who use the drains in order to turn the whole country into a stinky swamp, but by people who would clean the drains up. Katherine Mayo and her likes in the US want to rob people of their sovereignty and exploit them all the while justifying the exploitation with the theory that we’re not fit to govern ourselves.

Yes, India is an extremely poor country. The denial of this fact is denying the truth and supporting the ‘feel good’ feeling propagated by the media in order to keep the countrypeople from a revolution. It is like someone from the slavery era saying that there are slaves who have better masters who don’t beat them up and feed them well and even let them read books. At home CNN does not mention poverty once on TV, in abroad the same CNN is gushing about poverty in third world countries. It’s against the ruling class interest to let the relatively better-off people here who can access TV know how hard the overwhelming majority of the country suffer. In abroad, the ruling class use the ‘drains’ to garner support for all the atrocities they commit in the name of help.

So yes, India is a poor country and I’m an Indian by accident of birth and internationalist by principle living in India. That does not make me or anyone in India superior or inferior to anyone and does not make us deserving of subordination or inherently screwed up. Want proof of how India or Africa came to be so poor? Look at the global powers, the corporations, the international organizations like the UN, IMF, World Bank. Learn some history and you’ll find that we’re not inherently screwed up. Rather, the ones who are trying to portray us as such are. As one commenter commented on this blog yesterday, “there’s no shame being a slave. Only a slaveholder.”

P.S. Gandhi was, without a shred of doubt, a servant of the colonizers. Gandhi opposed the struggle of the Zulus and defended the massacre of the Zulus by the British in South Africa, was racist to the core which is evidenced by his many remarks on the inferiority of the black race, opposed freedom struggles by labourers and peasants in India, openly said that he supported landlordship and opposed any kind of attempts to take away the wealth they held, worked as a recruit agent for the British army and declared that the British rule was a godsend for India. His ‘non-violence’ was only for the Indians struggling for their freedom because he knew if the struggle turned violent, the British would have to flee and the power would be seized by the people instead of the Congress party (created by the British) which existed to serve the interest of the Indian bourgeoisie. Obviously, given the nature of Gandhiism, it would naturally be the philosophy that the ruling class would want the oppressed class to believe in. Oppress without any fear of a backlash – the dream of the oppressor!
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 19:12:58 DarqBeauty

This post instantly made me think of this video. -_-
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 19:47:03 dave

I’ll concede the point about Mrs. Jolie / Pitt, however, when It comes to Bono I am going to disagree.

He doesn’t just use his celebrity and own money to help others in need in Africa…He does it throughout the world. Not only In America, but his own country of Ireland.

I saw him when I worked at the pentagon after 9/11 (I was there on the smoke cleanup crew.) He was also with Chris Tucker, by the way they looked to be having a ball together laughing and clowning each other. I didn’t get to meet Bono, but later on Tucker was walking around near the Hall of Heroes, which I happened to be cleaning and I met him. He was very nice and he wanted to see the devastation and he told me he offered officials there anything he could do for help to raise awareness by the use of his celebrity. Now why isn’t Chris Tucker and other blacks being yelled at. Why do you guys hate Bono so much. I think he is a nice man.

What about Sean Penn and the work he does in Haiti. Penn also partnered with Spike Lee on that movie he did to benefit with Hurricane Katrina victims.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 19:55:14 brothawolf

I just had to deal with a fool on Colorlines.com who gave me his Western view of Africa as a helpless, corrupt place incapable of of self-governance and self-reliance. He objected to how the Kony 2012 issue is a “white savior” infomercial and the possibility that America’s main interests when it comes to any African nation is to make money from its resources.

It’s amazing what some people will believe without using their heads.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 20:45:46 Tyrone

Abagond:

Africa was turned into a monopoly board by europeans, this fact is omitted from so-called journalism here in the US and abroad. Leaving out this info presents a false narrative to consumers of media, because all consumers of media don’t have the same level of understanding about the issue. If folk haven’t studied the history of what took place via the transatlantic slave trade, they would view africa as continually dysfunctional. It’s not what we see and hear in media, it’s what we don’t see and hear in media that keeps us in the fog. Whites portray native africans as out of control, knowing damn’ well that their race is the source of the problem. This allows them to play the role of “Savior” that we have all come to despise. Brad Pitt, Angelina, Bono, and other bleeding hearts will never be honest about who created the chaos that we see in some african countries, Never!

Tyrone
MindScape
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 21:54:24 Notable Links: 3-16/12 « BROTHA WOLF

[...] “The Broken Africa Stereotype” by Abagond [...]
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 22:07:30 BROTHA WOLF

[...] “The Broken Africa Stereotype” by Abagond [...]
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 22:15:47 Mel

@Oyan,

Other’ groups keep coming for us, why is that? There is this parable, “when you act like sheep, people will act like wolves”.

I do sometimes feel blacks “welcome” the victim-hood portrayals. I often find it aggravating the way blacks welcome cameras to film them. Those videos of Africans dancing and singing for white audiences annoy me. So do those “news” pieces with black women crying about how “single” /unmarried they are. Why allow mainstream media to victimize you?
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 22:18:54 Peanut

great post. i’ll comment more after my nap.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 22:24:54 Mel

inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really.
What many black people don’t get or understand is that many non-blacks, particularly whites, believe, as a natural rule, that blacks are genetically or intellectually inferior to whites and other groups.

From this “blacks are naturally inferior” belief, they build all their opinions, laws, attitudes, etc about blacks.

I volunteered at a local high school in 2010, and was allowed to sit in on the staff meeting, where the officials discussed “dumbing down of the curriculum.” The school is mostly black and South Asian, and when I asked why they were dumbing down the curriculum (which made it difficult for the kids attending the school to get into universities), the answer was that the kids can’t handle the tougher curriculum, so the solution, naturally, is to dumb it down.

Now, if I were a parent with a kid at that school, I’d be offended that they’re doing this, because I understand why they chose this as a solution…they believe the black and South Asian kids are too dumb.
on Fri 16 Mar 2012 at 23:24:31 Matari

Mel

“Now, if I were a parent with a kid at that school, I’d be offended that they’re doing this, because I understand why they chose this as a solution…they believe the black and South Asian kids are too dumb.”

**********************************

So Mel, just to be clear, are you’re saying here that you were okay with the dumbing down process (not offended) because you’re not a parent with a child attending that school?

Were any African or South Asian staff members attending that meeting?
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 00:37:40 destructure

I used to care about what happened to poorer countries. But this post has really straightened me out. From now on I promise not to give a $#!t.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 00:51:16 Bulanik

I learned the truth about Africa and Africans when I first realized people expected Africans to be embarrassed. I was about 7 years old at the time and had watched the same Tarzan/dark continent/jungle nonsense that everyone else had then. My best friend of the time, a Nigerian, was expected to feel ashamed. After all, weren’t people running around in grass skirts, living in mud huts, starving and begging for crumbs? Therefore, what was there and how dare these people be proud!
But they were.

It was as if this mysterious self-esteem was fueled by a glorious nothingness, because no matter what Africa really is – there was always a belief that there must be always be and in every nook and cranny:
- starving children
- unfathomable depravity
- corruption
- hopelessness
- dirt
- ugliness.

No one is denying the realities and struggles.
But when Africans help other Africans, or Africa helps itself – it’s a big silence and nobody seems to care.

The hard work is overlooked, as are things like the incredible sense of style and fashion,the tantalizing cuisine, fabulous weddings….only negative attention deserves the spotlight, when ‘help’ and ‘saving’ is the order of the day. Africa, the hopeless case, riddled with corruption, doomed to poverty and lagging behind – all this is supposed to snuff out Africans’ sense of pride.
But it does not.

Watching this, I started to actually believe all this propaganda motivates many Africans and drives pride, regardless.

The last time I spoke with my Nigerian friend we talked about The Problem, the perception that Africa is messed up. She said:
Of course the whites in America and Europe who think the African continent always wants their handouts and their money because we’re poor – why have they always wanted our resources and land and people, huh?
Because we’re so rich!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 01:05:49 Franklin

@ Destructure

If your belief is that flimsy and is swayed that easily then it probably wasn’t genuine in the first place. But that’s me posting as if I has no idea that you were just some dishonest white who’s trying to paint himself as an open-minded person who is now deeply offended because of some cruel boogeymen that he was fighting for.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 01:28:47 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

Abagond, I am glad that you posted this post. Good post.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 02:03:27 Bliff

@mel

the answer was that the kids can’t handle the tougher curriculum, so the solution, naturally, is to dumb it down..

Finally, a sensible school district. Usually, the teachers, administration, community, or white people are blamed, usually in a game of musical chairs which of this takes it’s turn in being blamed. Finally, they have awoke – maybe its the kids.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 02:14:31 Bliff

@anglesanddimensions

58 dollar billionaires are a shame in a country whose 80% live under Rs.20.
You know nothing of the generation of wealth in an economy. The presence of biliionaires, indicates a growing economy. From India’s lower economic base, much money is made by entrepreneurs who create business and start to produce goods for the people. The entrepreneurs can make a lot of money in these intial stages.

those who point out that something is wrong in a country – usually they are the ones trying to establish their superiority …..Don’t use poor people as an excuse to feel good without doing anything good. Not always. There are many honest charitable organizations, nost of them white. Your racist attitude toward them may explain your poor opinion of them. Would you rather we not send the money? Because if that is your attitude, maybe we should not.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 02:23:25 Bliff

@leigh204

Bono and Angelina Jolie shaking hands with some of the populace,… They don’t deserve recognition. The use of celebrities to bring awareness, action, and money has been used very successfully for a wide range of causes. People would normally not listen to simple pleas for help unless there is something that catches their attention – celebrities, pictures of children, or highly polished videos.

So perhaps you should put aside your disdain for white people and think about how the disadvantaged are helped by the celebrities’ efforts. It’s irrelevant whether Jolie and Bono are getting more than their share of publicity.

It’s disgusting to me how many commenters disdain white people so much that they would criticize their efforts to help.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 02:49:09 brothawolf

@Bliff,

It’s disgusting to me how many commenters disdain white people so much that they would criticize their efforts to help.

But it’s okay to have a disdain for blacks, including Africans, because you, as a so-called race realist, believe they are not as intelligent or sufficient as whites?

I’m just asking.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 02:53:40 leigh204

Pffft. What do I care about white celebrities bringing attention to causes. I personally know people who do a lot more in helping others and don’t go in front of a camera to do it. GTFO.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 03:04:52 Bulanik

The stereotype is easy to maintain if the idea that Africa is one large homogeneous country, imagined like China, India or Russia (none of which are homogeneous anyway). Africa is so big, it can barely be imagined that China and India and the US could all ‘fit’ into Africa with room to spare…

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_laako0oFx01qzbbzao1_500.png

I’ve even heard people in West say that they heard someone talking in “African”! Like Danish or Bulgarians talking in “European”? I believe there are probably 2,000 languages/dialects being spoken on the African continent.

Behind that homogeneity is the belief that because Africa has no history, it can’t have a future. Africans, it’s thought, didn’t really build anything, or write down anything, so how could they be competent at anything, as if African Genius = oxymoron?

Africa seems perpetually broken in this stereotype because the people are ‘held back’ by their backward beliefs – traditions, practices, superstitions.
Of course Aids/HIV, FGM, etc., are deep and serious problems – but there are other things going on in a vast continent besides.
What have been the lasting images of this kind of no-hope stereotype?
1. The stoning to the death of a woman accused of adultery.
2. The Miss World pageant contestants being greeted at Abuja airport, and the news report saying how “wild” the crowd was, accompanied by “drums”!

Again, another image that has always stayed me with is that when people are suffering drought and starvation, the focus is sometimes – curiously – on the wild life, the rhinos, elephants and others. As if ,THIS is the worrying priority. Africa, after all, is meant for Safari! As if ‘Africans’ are actually lions or cheetahs.

Another strange stereotype is the notion that no known system of government can work in the continent. Ungovernable Africa, incapable of peace and civil society – as an explanation of instability and political coups. Only and always dictatorships, military rule, corrupt ineptitude….as if it some modern day manifestation of savage and warlike ‘tribal’, primeval nature.

No mention is made of the way the British and the Belgian colonial governments arbitrarily carved up, scrambled and partitioned land to form artificial divisions, or pitted one ethnicity against the other…

The devastating effect of Aids/Hiv somehow also has an African face.
Another African Problem. This problem is always tied to poverty, but, the lack of access to proper medical interventions is never the obvious connection reported. No – the future is grim: extinction is around the corner.

The media corporations that report on the continent are driven by profit, and that is bound by law that says shareholders require profits. No profit mean lawsuits will follow.
Bad news and crisis sells, and Africa is easy pickings for doom-peddling. ‘Context’ isn’t. The drama and tragedy of Africa makes money.

It seems these ‘needy’ and ‘grim’ stereotypes are the very thing that feeds Western foreign policy and its public, and its the same thing that makes Western governments and aid agency intervene. Africa is the place for ‘intervention’.

The way I learned about Africa was not about its history or geography – but more about its animals and ‘tribes’ like the Masai and Bushmen. The typical ‘exotic’ and wild misrepresentation.

Today, how many people associate Africa with, for example:
1. the operation of fibre optic sub-marine liaison linking Africa, Europe, Asia and the Americas?
2. the development of the IP (Internet Protocol) network?
3. Or the use of ASDL technology (high speed digital broadband)?
However, that’s just Senegal.
http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/finance/work-cost-tariffs/events/tariff-seminars/guinea-06/sailou_toure-en.pdf
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 03:17:21 FG

Stop blaming Americans for everything and start paying more attention to the problems of your own country!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 03:34:12 DarqBeauty

FG obviously hasn’t read the post and the comments.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 05:15:03 dave

I would like to hear some credit for this man here.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 07:55:21 anglesanddimensions

@Bliff

You know nothing of the generation of wealth in an economy. The presence of biliionaires, indicates a growing economy. From India’s lower economic base, much money is made by entrepreneurs who create business and start to produce goods for the people. The entrepreneurs can make a lot of money in these intial stages.

And your profound knowledge of economics astounds me. For twenty years since neoliberal policies have been adopted India has been experiencing what economists call ‘jobless growth’. Unless ‘growing economy’ means increased economic inequality, I don’t see how we can call the economy of a country which has the highest unemployment rate in 20 years growing. Goods for people? The purchasing power of the common Indian is mentioned in my previous post. Social welfare indicators are indicating the worst in 20 years. Some amount of industrialization is happening all right, but at the cost of farmers and tribals who are displaced from their lands creating several times more jobless and homeless people than the factories can hire. Again there are the huge number of factories that shut down and small businesses are getting wiped out.

Trickle-down economy has failed. It is clear as daylight and anyone with a slightest bit of brain can see why. So we’d better stop being happy about pumping money into the tummy of the super-rich.

Not always. There are many honest charitable organizations, nost of them white. Your racist attitude toward them may explain your poor opinion of them. Would you rather we not send the money? Because if that is your attitude, maybe we should not.

There may be “honest” charitable organizations, but charity is merely a way to keep people from an uprising. Charity does not solve poverty, it keeps a very tiny percentage of people in poverty barely alive. An investigation into the cause of poverty reveals what policies are responsible for it and who wanted to implement those with what intentions. This part gets really uncomfortable for people like you who think you’re doing us a favour by tossing $5 a week at us. That is why people like you will boast of charity but start opposing anyone who will stand up against the cuts in welfare, the liberalization-privatisation-globalization drive. If those organizations really wished to solve the issue of poverty, they would have hit at the core reason of poverty, the international policies, organizations like WB and IMF, imperialist wars, sanctions imposed on countries (US is threatening to impose sanctions on India if the latter doesn’t stop buying oil from Iran) etc. and finally capitalism itself.

So save your favors. Do away with the charity industry by all means. Hardly makes a difference to the poor population, but at least it will stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa, oh how poor they are’ without any significant loss to their lifestyle and all the while supporting the system that keeps their privileges intact and makes the poor people poorer.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 08:57:10 Bulanik

@DarqBeauty

“FG obviously hasn’t read the post and the comments.”
Truly.
When FG says this: “Stop blaming Americans for everything and start paying more attention to the problems of your own country!” And not for the time, either – I always wonder: how come so defensive about NOTHING offensive?
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 09:22:09 Bulanik

@DarqBeauty

Perhaps FG is another advocate of the:
— “non-American ‘foreigners’ have no right to comment on this blog-site and if they comment must only praise everything about the US” —
school of non-thought? Like, don’t we ‘foreign fukks’ know our place?
(The ‘foreign fukks’ was used to describe non-American recently on another post when discussion went outside the US.)

I have noticed that non-Americans are critical about their own countries. And actually don’t take issue with critical commentary from other nations.

But, what is this “how fukkin’ dare you” OUTRAGE that FG and a couple of others hold dear, coming from?

Any thoughts?

Just another case of American Privilege?

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/american-privilege/

This particular Abagond post gives some examples of what American Privilege is. Stuff like:–

- Assuming your cultural norms are universal.
- Believing everything you see on the news, even though it is told from the American point of view and is not a universal truth.(LOL)
- Seeing people from other countries as inferior to you, even if they are highly educated and successful.
- Believing everybody else wants to adopt the American way of life. If they do not, there is something wrong with them. If they do not, America is going make them.
- Believing America is fair and free. Everybody else lives in a mess.
- Assuming everybody wants the USA to help them.
- Seeing the USA as the best nation there is and being confused when others feel the same about their own countries.
- Being confused about people who do not like the USA or those who think it is not perfect. They must be jealous!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 09:48:26 malkia

Thanks for this post! Especially in the wake of that Kony mess and now George Clooney!

@Destructure honestly, I really do wish all of you would leave us alone. Thanks. Your “help” is more about how good you want to feel than about us really. Am not trying to be your feel good moment. I don’t think many Africans like it.

I agree with Mel. A lot of white people do truly believe that black people are inferior. I will not believe otherwise. A couple of things they have said:

1. Oh look at Rwanda, these primitive savages killing each other over some ancient tribal feuds. Never mind that people were fighting over systemic inequality introduced by the Belgians.

2. On critics of Kony 2012: “Well at least we care about your hellhole!” “at least WE are doing something unlike YOU Africans” “Africa is just stuck in the stone age, we should leave those uncivilized people to kill each other”

3. Saw a story on dead elephants on CNN, the white people almost dying over a dead elephant in fact some were saying that they should be moved out of Africa. Next story was on Sudan…”primitive savages” seemed to be the underlying message in their comments.

I could go on and on, but this is the general meme of their arguments.

Finally, Africa does have a lot of problems, I do not deny that. I live here and we are all faced with our problems. But we are more than the sum of our failures.

Here is fact: 8.5 billion dollars worth of diamonds are extracted out of Africa every year. It is enough to wipe out hunger and poverty in Africa.

This is just diamonds. Here is another fact: only an eighth of Africa’s mineral have been discovered. The clamour for Africa’s rare minerals have began. There is no continent like Africa. Congo alone could feed us for 20 years. I wish we could really see how much we have and rise as a people and take fate into our hands.

@Oyan, I agree with you. We as Africans and black people are way too forgiving! Look at the Jews, they did not forgive or forget. We should emulate them!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 12:10:22 destructure

franklin

“But that’s me posting as if I has no idea that you were just some dishonest white”

But of course I’m a “dishonest white”. Is there any other kind? And each one of us is more racister than the next, right? That’s why I came to this blog — to learn da troof.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 12:28:55 Franklin

@ Destructure

Yes, yes, yes. A person with no real purpose or argument is using colorful sarcasm as their “Hail Mary Attempt” to sway people’s attention away from that fact. It was only a matter of time.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 12:48:54 destructure

malkia

honestly, I really do wish all of you would leave us alone. Thanks. Your “help” is more about how good you want to feel than about us really. Am not trying to be your feel good moment. I don’t think many Africans like it.

I can assure you that Africa has never been my “feel good moment”. I’ve never been there. Never plan to go there. And I’ve never given a cent to any charity except for those performing medical research. I believe most charities end up making things worse. People shouldn’t become dependent on handouts whether it’s welfare or ‘save the children’. There’s a reason national parks have signs that say, “Don’t Feed the Bears.” It’s bad for bears and its bad for the people feeding them. And it’s just as bad when people get charity.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 18:01:00 Nom De Plume

I’ll say it again. Subscribing to The Africa Channel through my cable company was one of the best things I’ve ever done.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 18:04:13 Bliff

@leigh204

Pffft. What do I care about white celebrities bringing attention to causes.

Pffft yourself. Apparently you don’t care about the disadvantaged either, otherwise, you wouldn’t put down people like Jolie or Bono.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 18:11:09 Bliff

@brothawolf

disdain for blacks….believe they are not as intelligent.

Saying blacks is less intelligent than whites is something I have come to believe as an explanatory principle of blacks, condition. It’s not something I created, nor do I say it in any disdain….it’s just something that’s true and explains an awful lot. You are just shooting the messenger.

I “disdain” I speak of here is those who speak ill of those who are helping. I am criticizing the criticizers for what they are doing – disdaining – not for any of their abilities. People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 18:34:07 Bliff

@anglesanddimensions

neoliberal policies That was India’s first mistake. Should have tried capitalist policies. Works much better.

Trickle-down economy has failed. Don’t think so. The strange term just makes it amenable to ridicule.

Charity does not solve poverty, it keeps a very tiny percentage of people in poverty barely alive. This is all charity could ever be expected to do. Solving poverty comes from the country, their government in its policies, and the people themselves, including developing/adopting a culture of growth.

This part gets really uncomfortable for people like you who think you’re doing us a favour by tossing $5 a week at us No, I personally don’t even do this; hence, no discomfort. I give $0 to overseas charities. They let do it on their own. They constantly criticize USA and Americans, so let them pound salt.

core reason of poverty, the international policies, ….., and finally capitalism itself Lady, I’ll bet you learned your wacko liberal-socialist ways right here in the USA at one of our fine leftist universities. We wouldn’t need any international policies if the poor countries were already doing fine on their own. Capitalism is the GREATEST solution to poverty. Look at Hong Kong, Asian tigers, and China. They are growing due to their adoption of Western (white) capitalist policies.

Do away with the charity industry by all means. Here we agree. YOU can be the one to tell your people you recommended turning down western money because it was given by snotty white people. Then take the first flight out of your country immediately, for your own safety.

stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa Really. You think this is why people do this? Do you think white people are not caring? How RACIST!!!!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 19:13:08 Matari

Malkia

” I agree with you. We as Africans and black people are way too forgiving! Look at the Jews, they did not forgive or forget. We should emulate them!”

****************************************

Speaking with my individual POV as a descendant of those kidnapped from somewhere in West Africa, I don’t think Jews are the people we should emulate. Without going into a lengthy post, here’s why.

There exists in a Marvel Comic storyline about a mythical technologically advanced self-sustaining, never colonized, never conquered Kingdom/nation in Africa that’s run by a fictional King/Ruler named T’challa, aka The Black Panther.

This “fictional” Kingdom, an African nation named Wakanda, imo, is closer to who we once were as Africans, (i.e. the Moors ..) in antiquity than the present model of real life Jews.

If we need to emulate someone, let’s model ourselves after own ancestors/people before they were overcome by Europeans.
Even the mythical Wakandan empire is a better role model than modern, present day Israel largely comprised of Ashkenazi Jews. How can it be good for our young to grow up wanting to pattern/model/emulate after a group made up of largely European people? Haven’t we already witnessed enough of the harm internalized racism has pained us?

*Yes, we should never forget ..or repeat our mistakes.*
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 19:30:30 vanishingpoint

@Bliff, ever hear of Lauren Gallindo? Jolie’s adoption of her son from Cambodia was tainted, and the facilitator(Gallindo) was arrested and convicted of child trafficking.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/08/1073437411857.html

Also, another saviour, Madonna, took David from Malawi even though he was not an orphan, his father visited him every week and never gave permission for him to be adopted.

I guess splitting up families due to poverty is helpful and good?
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 19:45:29 abagond

@ Bliff

Get a clue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 20:02:34 leigh204

@Bliff:

@leigh204

Pffft yourself. Apparently you don’t care about the disadvantaged either, otherwise, you wouldn’t put down people like Jolie or Bono.

You’re new around here, aren’t you? And you don’t have a clue as to the kind of person I am so please spare me with the “you don’t care about the disadvantaged either” crap. Again, what do I care about Angelina Jolie and Bono? They’re just a bunch of rich, influential white people who smile for the camera patting themselves on the back for the “good” they’ve done. What a great photo op.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 20:10:16 JC

Don’t forget to add George Clooney to the mix….It’s almost as if he was trying to purposely get arrested this week in Sudan.

Is this supposed to be raising awareness or attention grabbing self-aggrandizement?!?!
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 21:24:08 Herneith

It’s disgusting to me how many commenters disdain white people so much that they would criticize their efforts to help.

(The spirit of Rochester rasps); “Help us, help us lousy nigras sah! What is disgusting is they have neglected to clean up their own back yard whilst helping someone else with theirs. Anything to keep the nigras at home in their place. At the same time you can feel good about yourself for helping the nigras overseas!

Stop blaming Americans for everything and start paying more attention to the problems of your own country!

Why don’t you go kiss some more white behind?

I would like to hear some credit for this man here.

Thanks white folks! Now can you do for us here at home what you are doing for others abroad?

@anglesanddimensions:

He is smarter than you because he is a white man, never forget that!

But of course I’m a “dishonest white”. Is there any other kind?

If there is I have yet to meet one! Really you sound paranoid.

There’s a reason national parks have signs that say, “Don’t Feed the Bears.” It’s bad for bears and its bad for the people feeding them.

Stop! Will the lunacy never end? What's wrong with you?

People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.

If that were true you would stop writing the reams of garbage that you do.
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 21:56:22 brothawolf

@Bliff

Saying blacks is less intelligent than whites is something I have come to believe as an explanatory principle of blacks, condition. It’s not something I created, nor do I say it in any disdain….it’s just something that’s true and explains an awful lot. You are just shooting the messenger.

I “disdain” I speak of here is those who speak ill of those who are helping. I am criticizing the criticizers for what they are doing – disdaining – not for any of their abilities. People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.

1. So, what you’re saying is that any theory that “proves” the so-called inferiority of blacks and Africans is something you would automatically believe without question? (yes or no) And any proof that counters this is just wrong? (yes or no)

2. No one here has the right to question or criticize anything they find suspicious when it comes to whites always being seen as saviors of Africans even though that not only does it offend, but also raises important questions? (yes or no)

3. If people are held responsible for what they do and not who they are, then:

a. Why can’t we hold you responsible for the racist…i’m sorry, race realist crap you spew all the time that offends the people here?
b. Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else?
c. Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people?
on Sat 17 Mar 2012 at 22:47:44 FG

“Perhaps FG is another advocate of the:
— “non-American ‘foreigners’ have no right to comment on this blog-site and if they comment must only praise everything about the US” —
school of non-thought?”

I never told anyone that they can’t criticize the US (or other countries). I just think that several of this blog’s patrons have an unhealthy, sometimes hateful obsession with Americans and American social life. This reached a crescendo with the micro-analysis of the YouTube video made by those two little girls from Florida. If two 15 year-olds living in Britain or France made a comparable video, I wouldn’t give it any attention whatsoever. That’s because I am primarily (though not solely) concerned with what’s going on in the society in which I was born and raised.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 02:22:39 Bliff

@leigh204

You’re new around here, aren’t you? Yeah I am, but more than a match for you, young missy.

you don’t have a clue as to the kind of person I am Let’s see – you think you’re nasty, sassy, think you know more than you do and you actually think that I care.

what do I care about Angelina Jolie and Bono? You missed the point. I don’t care Jolie and Bono either. However, celebrities attract attentionto their causes and that helps the disadvantaged. The point that you missed is the celebrities are unimportant, what they can bring in to help the disadvantagedis what is important. It seems you would let the disadvantage suffer, just to spite the celebrities. Do you understand now.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 02:40:38 Bliff

@brothawolf

inferiority of blacks and Africans…believe without question I never stated I believed it without question, like I just woke up one day and it was convenient to me to believe. No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA. I don’t believe it without question, I have come to see it as a good explanation of blacks’ condition in USA, as opposed to the white racism charges of people like Abagond.

whites …. as saviors of Africans Why do you obsess on this? Whites do what they do to help, other people do what they do to help Africans. Just because there is some publicity in the USA about white peoples efforts, is no reason to get concerned. I would think you would be happy about anyone helping Africans.

we hold you responsible for the realist crap you spew What do you mean by responsible? You can challenge me at anytime on this blog. If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else?
As I said before, I believe blacks’ have trouble in USA because of what I said earlier. These are the main reasons.

Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people In the last 50 years, whites have been overwhelming helpful to blacks. Few blacks today should be concerned with happened before that, because that is before their time. However, I see many blacks, on this blog and others, who obsess over the past times. I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 02:45:15 Bliff

@Herneith

you can feel good about yourself for helping the nigras overseas Maybe you would prefer we don’t help the “nigras overseas”, just so the snotty white people don’t feel good about themselves? A great help you are to the disadvantaged.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 03:08:22 Bliff

@vanishingpoint

ever hear of Lauren Gallindo? No, I haven’t and I don’t care about Jolie’s personal life. I am just here to point out that many commenters would rather criticize Jolie, Bono, etc about the publicity they attract, out of jealously, rather than their efforts to help the disadvantaged. Would you would prefer we don’t help, just so the snotty white people don’t feel good about themselves?
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 03:15:40 DarqBeauty

How can someone think Africans are inferior then feel out of sorts because we don’t think Africans need white help? These people don’t care about Africans. So why are they pretending indignation. Am I the only one who sees how illogical this argument is? Abagond sure has some interesting visitors.People who think we are inferior, but will spend days and days arguing with those they consider beneath them. o_0??
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 03:24:24 Bliff

@DarqBeauty

You confuse me. The Africans can refuse white help at any time. How can you say whites don’t “care about Africans” when we do many things to help. I’m feeling that whites will be criticized by blacks NO MATTER what we do.

I never called YOU personally inferior.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 03:39:11 DarqBeauty

“Reporter Asked Trayvon Martin’s Mom If He Ate Chicken! LAMO. How great is that!?”

That is what you wrote on another post. You are filth. Your diseased mind has been exposed. There is nothing you can say, no sanctimonious stance you can fake. You’ve been exposed by your own words. Don’t address me ever again. Just typing to you creeps me out. You’re a racist with a hard heart. You are irredeemable. I feel sorry for you, but on the other hand, I am deeply disgusted by your very presence. Please. Don’t address me again.

*shudder*
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 05:08:26 brothawolf

Bliff,

I won’t try to participate in derailing this thread for your amusement, but you’re just showing how trolls think when it comes to your comments: You basically don’t give a damn who you offend on this blog, do you?

Now back to our conversation:

inferiority of blacks and Africans…believe without question I never stated I believed it without question, like I just woke up one day and it was convenient to me to believe. No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA. I don’t believe it without question, I have come to see it as a good explanation of blacks’ condition in USA, as opposed to the white racism charges of people like Abagond.

You say you never stated you believed in black inferiority, but then again, I don’t recall you saying that you’ve questioned or not questioned it either until now when you said that you don’t believe without question.

Here’s what’s so funny. You say you don’t believe in “inferiority” and yet you say that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites which causes us to underachieve in a white-based society like this one. Well, what else do you call it especially compared with your brand or level of so-called intelligence, behavior, and mentality?

You don’t have to say “inferiority” outright if all that what you say you believe in compares one group of people to another based on your own prejudices. If you truly do think blacks are inferior, why not be a (white) man and say it instead of double talking.

whites …. as saviors of Africans Why do you obsess on this? Whites do what they do to help, other people do what they do to help Africans. Just because there is some publicity in the USA about white peoples efforts, is no reason to get concerned. I would think you would be happy about anyone helping Africans.

If anyone is obsessed with white saviors it’s white people and their media. I’m not happy if all I see are white people as generous, altruistic human beings saving the poor, helpless Africans who can’t save themselves. Why the bloody hell would I be happy to see those images over and over again?

we hold you responsible for the realist crap you spew What do you mean by responsible? You can challenge me at anytime on this blog. If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

If you’re a white man with intelligence superior to my own, why don’t you tell me what responsible is?

I, Abagond, and most other people have challenged you. Yet, you come up with laughable, offensive, and degrading responses like a typical troll. We’ve written something worth responding to and yet you seem to cower behind your race-realism, fake knowledge of history, narrow-mindedness and other dehumanizing responses.

Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else? As I said before, I believe blacks’ have trouble in USA because of what I said earlier. These are the main reasons.

So, the answer is yes.

Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people In the last 50 years, whites have been overwhelming helpful to blacks. Few blacks today should be concerned with happened before that, because that is before their time. However, I see many blacks, on this blog and others, who obsess over the past times. I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.

See? This is what pisses me off the most. You and your “that’s in the past and it doesn’t matter” crock of bullshit you always type.

And how the f*ck have whites been overwhelming helpful to blacks? Name some true examples–that have actually worked.

Your problem is that you can’t stand to face the truth of the white race’s past let alone the present. No wonder you have a poor knowledge of history. But I bet dollars to donuts that you would get orgasms about Paul Revere’s ride, Ben Franklin’s innovations, and the most important event, how this country was founded.

But Heaven forbid you learning about–and I have to keep this within the subject matter–European colonization of Africa and the West’s–and Europe’s–exploitation of the continent’s rich resources, and the support of the dictators of certain regions. All of which were orchestrated mostly by whites in a subtle method of modern imperialism for greed and power.

This is why I’m tired of seeing the same “white savior of Africa” image over and over again when most/many whites, especially those in power, have corporate interests in the land, and will do ANYTHING, which includes destruction, to take over.

For the record, learn to read directions carefully because I did ask for ‘yes or no’ answers and not paragraphs.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 05:08:33 joshua

What should George Clooney be doing? I’ve seen him interviewed, and he seems to be truly passionate about the causes he gets involved with. Does anyone here know differently?

The map at the start of this thread is bogus. It is titled “African Slave Trade” yet the arrows coded for volume really only show the Atlantic slave trade.

Trickle down is a failure. Feudalism was an example of “trickle down”. The basic problem is that pure capitalism tends to concentrate wealth in few people to the extent that they can manage it. The sayings “it takes money to make money” and “them that have the gold make the rules” are as true now as they ever were. This is even more true in places without decent education systems. The rich can send their kids abroad – what do the poor do?
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 07:04:52 anglesanddimensions

neoliberal policies That was India’s first mistake. Should have tried capitalist policies. Works much better…
Lady, I’ll bet you learned your wacko liberal-socialist ways right here in the USA at one of our fine leftist universities. We wouldn’t need any international policies if the poor countries were already doing fine on their own. Capitalism is the GREATEST solution to poverty. Look at Hong Kong, Asian tigers, and China. They are growing due to their adoption of Western (white) capitalist policies.

Because there do not exist any mainstream leftist parties in the US, the American left is the global centrist with a Keynesian approach, practicing a somewhat cushioned capitalism. The political terminology is upside down – the Keynesians are called liberals. If you had the slightest familiarity with politics except what your mainstream ‘Faux’ and CNN are blathering, you would’ve known that neoliberalism is in common parliance what is called the free market policy. Fine specimen of the superior race, you are. And yeah, you lost the bet.

I will not derail the thread going into China’s widespread poverty, labourer repression etc.

stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa Really. You think this is why people do this? Do you think white people are not caring? How RACIST!!!!

I’ve seen American people boast of charity too many times not to think this is the chief reason they donate. I do not say there aren’t white people who care (this is so tiring and we’ve all been through this several times, but you lot are rigidly against any observation of traits prevalent in white people or American people. This helps you deny that environment conditions a person thus denying the necessity to change the environment and attributing everything to ‘genes’, ‘internal structure’ etc. Funnily, you people are constantly making general assuptions about black people, Arab people, Indian people, East Asian people, Muslim people and so on. While not allowing general observation of white Americans and making general observations of many other groups, traits get attributed to race, religion, nationality et al while the white American culture remains ‘no-culture’). Few people, of any ethnicity or nationality, really care. But there’s no point repeating what I’ve made obvious in my previous posts. Not sorry to disappoint you, I think that is exactly why people do this. And this culture of hypocrisy is spread with a purpose which is beyond your comprehension, I’m afraid.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 07:06:13 anglesanddimensions

Correction: *The political terminology in America
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 07:29:46 anglesanddimensions

Just saw the ‘chicken’ comment. Go to Stormfront, that’s where you belong, bliff. I just hope there are no people of color in your neighbourhood.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 07:30:45 abagond

Here is the Ugandan prime minister’s response video to “Kony 2012”. Notice how he sees northern Uganda as something to be proud of rather than something to be pitied or ashamed of:
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 07:47:56 abagond

@ Bliff

Jesus Christ, of all people, said that if you do your charity for the world to see then it is not true charity but hypocrisy: you are doing it not out of love and concern but to make yourself SEEM like a good person to others.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 08:01:16 leigh204

@DarqBeauty:

“Reporter Asked Trayvon Martin’s Mom If He Ate Chicken! LAMO. How great is that!?”

That is what you wrote on another post. You are filth. Your diseased mind has been exposed. There is nothing you can say, no sanctimonious stance you can fake. You’ve been exposed by your own words. Don’t address me ever again. Just typing to you creeps me out. You’re a racist with a hard heart. You are irredeemable. I feel sorry for you, but on the other hand, I am deeply disgusted by your very presence. Please. Don’t address me again.

*shudder*

Wow, this fellow finds amusement with the chicken comment? Sick! You are so on the money about this pathetic excuse for a human being, DB. The fact that I even acknowledged his lowly presence gives me a feeling of revulsion.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 08:10:26 abagond

@ Joshua

“The map at the start of this thread is bogus. It is titled “African Slave Trade” yet the arrows coded for volume really only show the Atlantic slave trade.”

It does show African slaves going to other parts of the world. If you have hard numbers, rather than wishful thinking, to dispute the indicated volumes for those years (1500-1870) then please share.

Personally I doubt it: there is a huge African Diaspora (160 million people) on the shores of the Western Atlantic. I do not see signs of anything like it elsewhere from the past 10,000 years. The closest thing is the Bantu Expansion but that was within Africa.

In case you do not know, Arab slave traders are a moral fig leaf White Americans like to hide behind. As the map shows it is a pretty slim one.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 08:16:29 DarqBeauty

@ leigh

Yuck, double yuck with a side of crispy fried nastiness. I mean who thinks things like that, let alone says them? smh
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 08:23:07 abagond

@ Bliff

That chicken comment was in extremely bad taste, at the least. Therefore I have allowed DB’s and Leigh’s comments to go through.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 08:25:19 brothawolf

Bliff,

A few more things you need to realize. The reason why, as you say, I–or rather we are obsessed with the white savior bit is because it’s shoved into our eyes and eyes all the time. We can’t go anywhere without hearing about it from the TV, the radio, or even our co-workers.

But do you hear or see POC going to Africa and doing good deeds there? Hardly. Does this mean POC, including blacks, don’t go to Africa? No. Does this mean they don’t perform good deeds over there. Again, no! But how often do you hear about them as opposed to the white people saving Africa news? You’d be lucky to hear about it at all outside of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, and even then it rarely happens.

The point is that Africans are not helpless. Only someone who learns from the mainstream media or raised by that way would foolishly believe that unquestionably.

I had to deal with two people on Colorlines.com who see white saviors as white saints!! They see this guy Jason Russell as an angel and his movement as something 100% noble. When I placed my two cents into the forum, one kept going on and on about why is this a race issue. The other believed that Africans are really helpless and hopeless. Both saw Kony 2012 as a God send, and despised the fact that questions and criticisms were made as a response. These two would not see what the “fuss” was about no matter what explanations were given. It was like talking to a two cartoon idiots.

I should post the link to the video about Jason’s bender. Then again, they may consider it as a leftist plot, anything not to see the shadows behind their “white knight”.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 09:05:55 abagond

@ Bliff, etc

Given the bad relationship that whites have had with Africa – slavery, colonialism, neocolonialism, etc – any thinking person is going to question the motives of whites who want to “help”.

Whites in general have way more power in the world than blacks. That the prime minister of Uganda felt the need to defend his country from a YouTube video and found himself writing to the likes of Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga shows that imbalance. It shows how dangerous “well-meaning” whites can be.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 09:40:17 abagond

Tourists spent $560 million in Uganda in 2008.

Invisible Children spent $3.3 million there in 2011.

If Ugandan tourism drops by more than 0.6% due to the “Kony 2012″ video making people think Uganda is a dangerous place, then it will do more material harm than good.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 10:41:13 Satanforce

There exists in a Marvel Comic storyline about a mythical (emphasis mine) technologically advanced self-sustaining, never colonized, never conquered Kingdom/nation in Africa that’s run by a fictional King/Ruler named T’challa, aka The Black Panther.

This “fictional” Kingdom, an African nation named Wakanda, imo, is closer to who we once were as Africans, (i.e. the Moors ..) (WTF,!!!! SF comment) in antiquity than the present model of real life Jews

If we need to emulate someone, let’s model ourselves after own(fictional character created by American Marvel Comics that does nothing to explain the economic and social structure required for such ‘development ‘SF) ancestors/people before they were overcome by Europeans. .

This is a joke, right? You’re trolling us yeah? Yeah??? ‘Case that;s like saying that the US Army should model itself after GI Joe, the cartoon.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 11:21:00 sam

Broken Africa is basically the bases for racist propaganda in USA and around the west, mainly. The idea behind it is that because the whole Africa is just a cesspool of hunger, diseases and poverty and failure, no wonder that all the blacks are basically the same all over the world.

Broken Africa is the reason why blacks are below whites and stay there and should stay there. No need for complicated HBD theories nor any other scinetific crap, just point a finger to Africa and say: See? Broken Africa is the patent aswer for all questions about racism. “See+ Look at It yourself!”.

It is also very important, almost essential, to show year after year how the White West rescues africans from africans and most of all, from Africa itself. It is very important to repeat this message in various forms and platforms, overtly and subliminaly, ober and over again, untill it becomes a reality and replaces any other idea of Africa. It is via this repetition that comes the idea that it is natural to send in some relief troops or military into Africa to helpo africans, because they can not helpo themselves.

In this propaganda it is also very important to avoid all images, stories and videos of any sort of normalcy. Delete all information that shows how normal life is in Africa. Deny all the development in Africa. Also, high light the corrupt leaders of Africa as natural beings for Africa and do not even hint that those guys are stealing their countries blind with the help and assistance of white bankers and consults and big companies etc., sometimes with the helpo of white soldiers who may be “advisors” or “security consultants” or even “friendly forces supporting and protecting democracy”.

Put all these together and you once again can do what ever you want or need to do when ever it is in your white western interests. A very good example: somali pirates. International fishing industry has been stealing the fish from the sea and somali fishermen had no more their traditional way to support their families etc. They became pirates. And how this has been presented in the western media??

That is why and how Africa is ad will be broken in the white western media.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 11:40:19 Matari

SatanForce

I see that you’re “trying” to read my posts. Good for you!! LOL
Keep at it. With time and practice your comprehension skills will improve.
In time, your ability to see past the box you’re in may improve.

At any rate, I think (despite your confusion) this point can’t be stressed enough. Israel is not a good role model to emulate!

What I actually wrote was:

“This “fictional” Kingdom, an African nation named Wakanda, imo, is closer to who we once were as Africans, (i.e. the Moors ..) in antiquity than the present model of real life Jews.

If we need to emulate someone, let’s model ourselves after own ancestors/people before they were overcome by Europeans.
Even the mythical Wakandan empire is a better role model than modern, present day Israel largely comprised of Ashkenazi Jews. How can it be good for our young to grow up wanting to pattern/model/emulate after a group made up of largely European people? Haven’t we already witnessed enough of the harm internalized racism has pained us?”
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 11:53:33 Bulanik

@Satanforce
You mean even your satanic brainstorms cannot see the virtue – and brilliance – of fictional and mythical discourses and their application in the material realms?!

Of course you realize that many graphic novels/comics are graphic depictions of far deeper issues/histories…?
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 12:17:39 Bulanik

@sam
@abagond

I brought up the Uganda tourism issue last week on the Kony thread:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/kony-2012/#comment-117032 and http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/kony-2012/#comment-117034

But what I forgot to outline was my thoughts about the way the West actually selects its interventions, and also filters its memory banks in relation to Uganda (and Africa in general). This makes it easier to make the continent a blank canvass to paint stereotypes on, whilst what is going on under the canvass is out of view. This maintains the idea of Africa being the Dark.

Thus, Uganda may be an A-list tourist destination, but you’ll notice that like many African countries it’s also supposedly “unknown” and indistinguishable from all the others?
The Dark Continent is USED by the Western media like a big blind-spot that only lights up when Western media shines its torch on it.

This means that Uganda will be “unknown”, but we will not know or forget:
- that it was the Zionists who first wanted to make Uganda home to the Jews in 1905?
- Today Binyamin Netanyahu is Israeli prime minister because his other brother, Yoni Netanyahu, was a matyr in Entebbe Uganda in 1976.
- Why did British PM Winston Churchil travel to UG by 1908?
- Was there CNN in 1908 to inform Churchill about Uganda?
- Who took away Uganda”s copper, without paying for it, from Kilembe mines to Europe?
- Did they do this because CNN told them there was copper in Kilembe?

Battles are selected in much the same way.
Thus:
- where was the US when the Acholi people (spelling may be wrong) were being herded into concentration camps?
- Where was the US when Banyore massacre was taking place?
- Where were the US when the Mukula massacre was taking place?
- Where was the US when over 6 million people were being killed by the UPDF (Uganda People’s Defence Force) and Rwanda’s defence force?
- Where was the US when DR Congo’s resources were being plundered?

These parts of the canvass are daubed over with invisible ink, and repainted.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 12:33:57 Bulanik

sam, Abagond – sorry about typos – Churchill went to Uganda in 1908.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 13:25:53 Bulanik

@FG
“I never told anyone that they can’t criticize the US (or other countries). I just think that several of this blog’s patrons have an unhealthy, sometimes hateful obsession with Americans and American social life. This reached a crescendo with the micro-analysis of the YouTube video made by those two little girls from Florida. If two 15 year-olds living in Britain or France made a comparable video, I wouldn’t give it any attention whatsoever. That’s because I am primarily (though not solely) concerned with what’s going on in the society in which I was born and raised. ”

Did you actually read Abagond’s post and the comments that follow?
You seem to be making a few assumptions and, contradicting yourself.
Do you really believe that the basis of critical commentary from non-Americans on this thread – or on this blog-site – is because of hate and jealousy?
Although you deny it, FG, you seem to think people shouldn’t be interested in countries outside their own, and, if they are, they should keep their mouths shut.

It concerns me that you do NOT say that you find it repugnant that commenters like myself don’t express admiration for the American brand of white supremacy?
Or do you, in fact APPROVE of the commentary on this blogsite made by racist trolls – haven’t you noticed THAT recently on the Trayvon Martin thread, FG?

Which brings me to the 2 ‘little girls’ on their racist rant on another recent thread.
Do you have any sympathy for the black and brown little girls these girls were hating on? And you think Abagond wrote that post only for American commenters?

But more to the point – before we get Off Topic – were you were, in fact, more bothered that commenters challenged a ‘white’Hispanic’s American right to hate on black people to prove her whiteness to ‘real’ white people than anything else?
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 14:45:56 Nom De Plume

@Bulanik:

“Which brings me to the 2 ‘little girls’ on their racist rant on another recent thread.”

“Do you have any sympathy for the black and brown little girls these girls were hating on? And you think Abagond wrote that post only for American commenters?”

–
I caught that comment, too. “FC” referred to the teen racists in Florida as “little girls.” On another thread, destructure seems to believe that Trayvon, who was around the same age, was a grown man because he could grow hair on his face and get a drivers license. Different commenters with the same double standard.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 14:46:51 Nom De Plume

George Clooney is appearing on “Meet The Press” today, no doubt discussing his recent arrest in Sudan.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 16:17:38 Herneith

Let’s see – you think you’re nasty, sassy, think you know more than you do and you actually think that I care.

That sounds like you are describing yourself.

Do you understand now.

No. You’re writing in circles. On the one hand celebrities are unimportant. On the other hand they generate publicity for these photo-ops, I mean charities. If the celebrities are not important, then how do they engender the publicity to get people to ‘donate’ en masse to these charities? Maybe you and your ilk can promote these causes!

No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA.

What Bliff really means; “I hate ni&&ers, but am to ‘civil’ to use uncivil words. I prefer to baffle people with nonsense! It is more fun and helps me bolster my already low to non-existant self worth. Where would we be without the lowly negro to enhance our sense of worth or to compare ourselves to(of course to our betterment)?

If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

Oh and I guess your reply to Leigh was constructive criticism, cretin?

I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits.

Where can I sign up for this program genius? I could use the extra benefits and cash to buy a new handbag!

. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.

According to you, Bliff, we are less intelligent so therefore we cannot. Any suggestions?

So why are they pretending indignation. Am I the only one who sees how illogical this argument is?

Nope. I am starting to think they let the lunatics loose on the computers at the mental hospital. They are f—ed in the head, morally bankrupt among other things. It is too bad there is a comments policy here or I would really let this Bliff person know what I think of them. T’wouldn’t be nice and would make one’s ears burn!
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 17:03:19 truthbetold

@ Abagond, Leigh, Darq, Brothawolf

There are some folks on this blog, that I won’t mention, who just come here to incite and fan the flames of racial hatred. These individuals have no purpose here. They’re not here to learn or heal or understand a damn thing.

Just ignore them.
You’ll be better off.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 19:42:12 brothawolf

Truthbetold,

I need to let them go stew in their own hate. They give me nothing in return but headaches.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 22:09:20 kittyem

The woman on the first pic appears to be posing. It’s a norm for western jurnos to go to the refugee camps and actively look for the thinnest children to photograph. A former jurno narrated at how his former boss used to reject his work because the children were “not thin enough”

During the Horn of Africa drought last year, a common complaint among the Somali people at the refugee camps was the jurnos who kept asking them to uncover their children so that they can take “good” pictures. It seems the more the ribs that can be counted, then so much the better.

On the Kony 2012 issue, I learned that our hero recently embarked on a public masturbating frenzy. Apparently he is also a coke addict. It just goes to show that whites are still hankering for for negative narrative about Africa and they will reflexively buy into any such nonsense without even questioning who came up with it.
on Sun 18 Mar 2012 at 23:24:08 abagond

The first picture was taken by photojournalist Kate Holt, who works for the British media and NGOs. If you click on the picture it leads to her blog where you can find out more about the picture and about her.

The first two pictures are from Dadaab, a vast refugee camp in Kenya where hundreds of thousands have fled famine and war in Somalia.

The third picture is from a coffee house in an upmarket Nairobi mall. It is by Noor Khamis for Reuters and appeared in the South African press.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 00:04:58 Doug1

Projection: It was the West that broke Africa.

No it wasn’t. ssAfrica has always been a very lagging part of the world, throughout all history. There was no literacy in African languages until Europeans taught that to them.

Why? Because of the major geographic races with lots of members, ssAfricans are the least intelligent. Other races as distinct as ssAfricans are from the other six or so major geographic races, are even less intelligent on average than ssAfricans, such as the Koisans, Pygmies, and Australian Aborigines. However their numbers have always been relatively few, and also their impact on world history, A. Aborigines partly excepted due to overplayed by leftists white guilt.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 00:07:12 Doug1

The so called stereotype has TONS of truth to it, in other words.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 00:12:47 JC

@Doug, did you not read the article? Yes it is TRUE that Africa has one of the highest poverty rates in the world, but this doesn’t mean all of Africa should be portrayed that way.

That’s how a STEREOTYPE works, by making blanketing assumptions across the board even when there is diversity.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 00:45:19 Bliff

@abagond

Oh c”mon the “chicken comment was in extremely bad taste”. This whole blog is in bad taste. People attack me personally all the time here. I’ve seen pornographic conversations on this blog about porn movies (Not that there’s anything wrong with that).

In fact,I was only quoting Oyan who stated it first.

It’s TRUE! Blacks are really OVERSENSITIVE to mild things. In fact, I think it’s worse than that. I think you guys feign being insulted just to have something to whine about and shoot back at the whites.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 00:47:12 Bliff

@Doug1

Good one. Nice to see someone else on this blog who actually knows something and has not bought into the Bad White, Good Black mentality.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 01:00:37 Bliff

@Herneith

You’re writing in circles. No I’m not. You’re playing games with the references to the word important. The celebrities are important to the charities because they raise awareness and bring in more money than if the were not involved. The celebrities should be unimportant to observers, like you, because you should be concerned with the charity work, not weather Jolie and Bono are getting any more publicity. You see? A completely contained reason thought, no circular logic.

What Bliff really means; “I hate ni&&ers. Wrong again. I believe what I said because it seems to be a good explanatory principle. Like a scientific theory. There is no hate involved. Just a dispassionate belief. I have no reason to hate black people. Can you prove that I do?

Where can I sign up for this program genius. You probably already have: affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws restricting whites’ actions, Title I, Head Start, many programs for the poor that help blacks disproportionately.

what that means for the future. If you can’t run or walk, then at least limp into the future. Quit whining about the past, and think about your future in this greatest of all countries.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 01:07:05 Bliff

@Bulanik

where was the US when the Acholi people…Banyore massacre….Mukula massacre….Uganda People’s Defence Force…. DR Congo’s resources were being plundered?

The rest of the world, including you, apparently think they have some say in where the USA employs its military forces. The USA will employ them where we have an interest. Africa is not really that place. I wasn’t important when we were confronting the USSR, and it’s not so important in the MIdEast.

Contrary to myth, we DON’T jump into every conflict there is. We get blasted by the rest of the world as it is, so why would we jump into meaningless African conflict?
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 01:09:55 Bliff

@BrothaWolf

we are obsessed with the white savior bit is because it’s shoved into our eyes and eyes . It is NOT!! You’re just whining. I watch TV too and it’s just not on that much. If you don’t like it turn the channel.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 01:14:00 Bliff

@Herneith

I would really let this Bliff person know what I think of them. I think you already have….in so many words. Frankly, Herneith, I think you’re just ticked because the truth hurts; you know it and I know it.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 01:37:52 Franklin

@ Doug1

Normally, I ignore your because your arguments because they’re flimsy and full of holes. But periodically, just to demonstrate how little you know, (despite all your desperate posturing) I like to prove that you’re an idiot and that you don’t know squat. Here we go again…

“There was no literacy in African languages until Europeans taught that to them.”

Right off the top of my head Ge’ez, Chromatographic Edo Script, Nsibidi, are three African writing systems among a number, that pre-date the arrival of Europeans on the continent. Now I’ll sit here and wait for you to shift goal posts, by attempt to invalidate that fact by saying something ridiculous like “There were no books, so it doesn’t count!”
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 02:56:24 DarqBeauty

” Now I’ll sit here and wait for you to shift goal posts, by attempt to invalidate that fact by saying something ridiculous like “There were no books, so it doesn’t count!””

Exactly. They may tell themselves that we are intellectually inferior, but who are the geniuses arguing with people they consider below them day after day? This is one of those regurgitated “facts” that white supremacist like to regurgitate. Even though the reality is vastly different. But hey, they can’t like little things like facts get in the way of their good old fashioned hate.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 02:59:01 brothawolf

@Bliff

It is NOT!! You’re just whining. I watch TV too and it’s just not on that much. If you don’t like it turn the channel.

If you were to read the whole sentence, I mentioned other mediums. I should’ve mentioned movies as that’s a Hollywood narrative to produce at least once a year.

You’re backed into a corner for which you can not escape by using your ramblings.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 03:02:16 brothawolf

Also Bliff,

I’ve written a bit about how people like you act in another thread entitled “My Philosophy on Trolls”. I don’t want to derail this topic. So, if you want to continue with your hatred, meet me there.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 05:53:13 sam

@doug1:

“ssAfrica has always been a very lagging part of the world, throughout all history.”

Öööh… You do know that your ancestors came from Africa? Like, all humanbeings came from Africa, right?

And since we are now on the subject, what your ancestors were doing when the nubians were building pyramids or those guys in Timbuktu were collecting one of the biggest library in the world, or those guys in present day Zimbabwe were trading with gold and silver and building castles from stone?

You do know that most of the whites who escaped or were sent by force, were slaves or prisoners or just ran out from Europe because they could not make it there, could not even read, right? You know that at that time the english men bathed perhaps once or twice a year, right?

You do know that the parfume industry was created to cover up the rampant diseases in the court of the Sun Kig of France back in the late 1600′s because the smell of rottening felsh, infections, and other of such since they did not have a single toilet in Versailles nor used baths? Never mind that africans had have their parfumes for centuries by then and washed almost daily were ever water was available.

You do know that in 1700′s absolute majority of the white europeans could not read or write? Majority of the white europeans could not read or write in first half of the next century either.

You do know that there were massive famines in Europe in 1800′s?

You do know that it was only in 1800′s that the white europeans realised that it could be a good idea to wash hands before helping at child birth or surgical operations or at all? The japanese, chinese and indiand, arabs and some africans had done it for centuries by that time.

You do know that the Great White Man had no say so in most parts of Africa untill 1800′s? The funniest thing is that they died in there and could not live there because they had no idea how to survive there. The crucial point came when they realised that perhaps we should learn something from the natives, like kinine, the only working medicine against malaria, which by the way, the africans had used and known for centuries by then. And this happened in late 1800′s, not before.

Now I wonder, if africans and Africa had been lagging all trough the history, why on earth the white man did not take over before that? Why white men did not invade Africa before 1800′s? According to you, the place was a mess and lagging already.

Why not the vikings, who went to America and Asia and kicked almost everyones butts, did not just row their boats up the Nile or Kongo and kicked the butts of those black semianimals and steal their ivory and gold? They did it almost anywhere else, like in the White Sea area where they brought the northern ivory, tusks of the walruses. They were trading slaves from Ireland to Caspia Sea, so why not from Africa?

Why the great english sea dogs and explorers did not just occupy that lagging part of the world in 1600′s? Why the french did not do that? Or the dutch? I mean, they invaded and occupied the East India.

And on that note, why the americans, the greatest of the great whites, did not take over the whole continent from those savages in 1800′s? They took their own continent from the natives just like that, so it could not have been morally wrong or even impossible, right?

Ok, why the USA did not invade and take over Africa after WW1 or WW2? I mean, USA was the only super power in 1945. It could have been so easy. Right?

Now, lets see how the mighty USA has been doing in the lagging Africa… Somalia in 1990′s, anyone??
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 06:11:51 sam

@bliff:

“Contrary to myth, we DON’T jump into every conflict there is.”

China 1945-51.
France 1947.
Marshall Islands 1946-58.
Italy 1947-1980′s.
Greece 1947-49.
Philippines 1945-53.
Korea 1945-53.
Albania 1949-53.
East Europe 1945-56.
Iran 1953.
Guatemala 1953-90′s.
Costa Rica 1950′s, 1970-71.
Middle East 1956-58.
Indonesia 1957-58.
Haiti 1959.
Guyana 1953-64.
Irak 1958-63.
Vietnam 1945-73.
Cambodia 1955-73.
Laos 1957-73.
Thailand 1965-73.
Ecuador 1960-63.
Kongo/Zaire 1960-65, 1977-78.
France 1960′s.
Brazil 1961-64.
Peru 1965.
Dominican 1963-65.
Cuba 1959- present.
Indonesia 1965.
Ghana 1966.
Uruguay 1969-72.
Chile 1964-73.
Greece 1967-74.
South Africa 1960′s-80′s.
Bolivia 1964-75.
Australia 1972-75.
Irak 1972-75.
Portugal 1972-75.
East Timor 1975-99.
Angola 1975-90′s.
Jamaica 1976.
Nicaragua 1979-80.
Hoduras 1980′s.
Philippines 1970′s-90′s.
Seychelles 1979-81.
South Yemen 1979-84.
Souht Korea 1980.
Tshad 1981-82.
Grenada 1979-83.
Surinam 1982-84.
Libya 1981-89.
Fidji 1987.
Panama 1989.
Afganistan 1979-92.
El Salvador 1980-92.
Haiti 1987-94.
Bulgaria 1990-91.
Albania 1991-92.
Somalia 1993.
Irak 1990′s.
Peru 1990′s.
Columbia 1990′s.
Mexico 1990′s.
Yugoslavia 1995-99.

Just few examples of conflicts were US military or CIA has been involved since 1945.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 07:32:29 dee

I recommend everyone to watch this.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 07:43:42 dee

Ignorance is caused by, well, ignorance. Apart from American history, American schools spend way too much time only focusing on Europe. As a high school student, all I’ve learned about Africa from school are basically things that contribute to African stereotypes. I blame textbook makers, and schools, for buying these inadequate learning devices. I don’t understand why the good parts of Africa are completely ignored, beyond ancient Egypt and parts of South Africa. Just because someone doesn’t live in a mansion doesn’t mean their life sucks. But at the same time, there are many people who do live in mansions. I don’t understand why this sort of thing continues
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 10:59:07 Bulanik

@sam –

When I asked this: ..where was the US when the Acholi people…Banyore massacre….Mukula massacre….Uganda People’s Defence Force…. DR Congo’s resources were being plundered?
Bliff answered by saying: “Contrary to myth, we DON’T jump into every conflict there is.”

Didn’t he know that WW3 already happened?
Doe he really believe that all US disruptive involvement in Africa is military?
Doesn’t he know what the function of the CIA is?
Does he live in the US state called Denial?

Some would have us believe the US kept out of those massacres/battles out respect for Africa’s internal affairs, or don’t care, or, are “too busy” (lol! lol!),
And some also believe that if Americans like them don’t know about the wars their government is involved in Africa, then they aren’t happening (lol! lol! stop! stop!).

They don’t know instability is manufactured. Or where their hate comes from.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 11:13:55 sam

@bulanik: No, he did not know, but then again, he does not believe it. He believes he sees on tv, on the right channel that is.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 11:18:47 Bulanik

@sam: Watching tv + wishful thinking = elite knowledge.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 11:25:01 sam

@bulanik:
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 11:35:04 Bulanik

@dee- thank you for the link about Dambisa Moyo.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 11:48:14 leigh204

@sam:

@bliff:

“Contrary to myth, we DON’T jump into every conflict there is.”

China 1945-51.
France 1947.
Marshall Islands 1946-58.
Italy 1947-1980′s.
Greece 1947-49.
Philippines 1945-53.
Korea 1945-53.
Albania 1949-53.
East Europe 1945-56.
Iran 1953.
Guatemala 1953-90′s.
Costa Rica 1950′s, 1970-71.
Middle East 1956-58.
Indonesia 1957-58.
Haiti 1959.
Guyana 1953-64.
Irak 1958-63.
Vietnam 1945-73.
Cambodia 1955-73.
Laos 1957-73.
Thailand 1965-73.
Ecuador 1960-63.
Kongo/Zaire 1960-65, 1977-78.
France 1960′s.
Brazil 1961-64.
Peru 1965.
Dominican 1963-65.
Cuba 1959- present.
Indonesia 1965.
Ghana 1966.
Uruguay 1969-72.
Chile 1964-73.
Greece 1967-74.
South Africa 1960′s-80′s.
Bolivia 1964-75.
Australia 1972-75.
Irak 1972-75.
Portugal 1972-75.
East Timor 1975-99.
Angola 1975-90′s.
Jamaica 1976.
Nicaragua 1979-80.
Hoduras 1980′s.
Philippines 1970′s-90′s.
Seychelles 1979-81.
South Yemen 1979-84.
Souht Korea 1980.
Tshad 1981-82.
Grenada 1979-83.
Surinam 1982-84.
Libya 1981-89.
Fidji 1987.
Panama 1989.
Afganistan 1979-92.
El Salvador 1980-92.
Haiti 1987-94.
Bulgaria 1990-91.
Albania 1991-92.
Somalia 1993.
Irak 1990′s.
Peru 1990′s.
Columbia 1990′s.
Mexico 1990′s.
Yugoslavia 1995-99.

Just few examples of conflicts were US military or CIA has been involved since 1945.

Now that’s what I call a BURN. lol!
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:05:36 Jack in the Box

So that’s where all my tax money went?
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:15:38 Bulanik

Dambisa Moyo seems to be saying that aid to African countries as a strategy for development is bound to failure. I think Dr Moyo means aid as Official Development aid, rather than the Emergency type.

I am wondering though, if we can say with accuracy and certainty that there is a direct causal link between a high level of aid receipts and poor economic performance? Could it be so simple?

The debate is helped by the oxygen of new ideas from Africans .
And, absolutely, Dr Moyo has done that well.

But I fear Dr Moyo is a little short-sighted in her conclusions and remedies — a factor that tends to be sidelined as her voice seems to be carried along by an industry which is driven by celebrity and entertainment.

The economic challenges facing African countries as “late industrializers” are of course serious and complex, requiring analyses in both domestic and global contexts. Dr Moyo’s solutions seem to be: change the source of capital (through bonds, micro-finance and remittances instead of foreign aid), but she does not talk about the structural constraints facing countries and how they may be overcome.

I don’t think this is her fault, since as her thesis centres on this: aid is the cause of poverty and needs to be taken away.
Does this means then, that the real challenge is to find other sources of capital? It sounds over-simplified to me, and doesn’t feel like the workable answer because there is much more to it.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:20:09 Matari

I recall seeing the above JS video years ago. SIX MILLION people from third world (non-white) countries are DEAD in the wake of the CIA’s 40 years (at the time that video clip was produced) involvement in the affairs “other” nations

Remember, this video was made way BEFORE the 911 false flag operation invasion that led to the phony War On Terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan (and Iran too if these crooks have their way).

The white racial frame propaganda machine prohibits people from seeing who the true, brutally efficient criminals are in America, and those who are dead as a result. Some of us here know that non-white dead (or alive) people don’t cause whites much concern, or sympathy.

Yet, incredulously adding insult to injury, the white racial frame (POV) maintains that blacks are the most violent criminal group in America that deserves incarceration.

The combined number of black violent criminals worldwide can’t begin to match the atrocities of the top 2% of white male criminals – the ones who wear badges, uniforms, white collars, carry brief-cases and have never seen the inside of a prison.

Remember this the next time a troll, or whomever, suggests to you that blacks are the most aggressive, violent and criminal people on earth.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:34:33 Bliff

@Bulanik

Sam listed a number of conflicts that we were involved in, though I don’t necessarily agree with his list. These are conflicts we apparently wanted to be involved in.

You listed some we did not get involved in, so my original point, we don’t get involved in every conflict, still stands.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:41:41 Bulanik

So, all US disruptive involvement in Africa is military?
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:56:59 Bulanik

Do you think all interventions listed involve direct troop deployment during conflict in all the countries? One size fits all? Do you think US government operations are meant to be unsophisticated?
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 13:00:43 Bliff

@Bulanik

So, all US disruptive involvement in Africa is military? If you’re addressing me, please explain why would you even ask me this. I have made no such generalization. I made one comment about how the USA does not get involved in every conflict when you listed some conflicts in Africa you apparently thought we should’ve have got involved in.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 13:31:02 Nom De Plume

@bulanik:

“Does this means then, that the real challenge is to find other sources of capital?”

—
Dr. Moyo recommends encouraging and assisting people to start their own businesses. She says that http://www.kiva.org is a good way to do this, and believes it will prove to be more beneficial over time than funding from NGOs and others.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 13:33:49 Bulanik

@Nom De Plume

Thank you for the link.
I’d like to find out more about this, and separate the hype from what is happening on the ground.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 13:41:55 Nom De Plume

@Bulanik:

I know what you mean. I haven’t had any personal involvement with the organization. I just remember Dr. Moyo recommending it during one of her interviews.
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 13:51:41 Bulanik

@Nom De Plume

Do please share your any more information you can find on this.
I have a feeling that there are many more African thinkers and doers that we don’t know about yet in the West who are working on positive change!
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 20:46:22 Tyrone

Abagond:

All of us know that our african sistas and brothas have to reconstruct “Mama Africa” on their own accord going forward, but, we can’t allow those who created the mess to wash their hands of what we see taking place in nations such as Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Congo, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. We should bitch and moan about the ish that we see going on. As black people, we should be outraged at so-called black leadership in this country and in africa. George Clooney has to get arrested outside the Sudanese Embassy to bring attention to the genocide in Sudan and South Sudan, WTF? Why the hell are we voting for a bunch of yes men and women who don’t speak up for us anyway? The CBC loves to travel to africa, but can’t open their mouths when the s**t hits the fan. We have a so-called black president in power, and the bs is still taking place…Scary!!!

Tyrone
Mindscape
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 23:02:20 V-4

It seems like Dr. Moyo is ignoring the wests involvement over the years in creating instability and poverty, its not “aid” that has created the problem.

In a very real way, its the system she is talking about, capitalism, profitting off of another human beings misery is pretty much the central tenent of capitalism.

I mean, in the US we getting tremendous amounts of aid from China, so she may have a point. If China wasn’t willing to give us money would we have gone to war?

On the other hand; socialistic countries are way more stable than the ones like the US which are more based on a capitalistic economic system. Less criminal, more literate, less depression etc….

And her Ethiopian example; she pointed out the African average for ownership of cell phones was 30% so their must be countries out their that recieve aid that don’t fall under the Ethiopia example, countries that can do both aid and capitalism, why not look to them as examples?

That being said; she points out the problems with the Aids Culture, its messages are negative and ultimately potentially harmful as pointed out with Invisible Children, if they cause tourism to fall even a tiny miniscule amount they have simply done harm and no good.

The Aids culture message negates people wanting to do business or even interact in africa, while at the same time not pointing fingers at the damage our culture as a whole has done to Africa.
on Tue 20 Mar 2012 at 04:17:04 Secular X. Blood

You really should look at Unamusement Park. He has a great flyer on stereotypes (no, really).

There is this thing in statistics called “The Exception that Proves the Rule.” The term is somewhat misleading. A better, albeit less catchy term would be “The Anomaly that Highlights the Tendency.”

Hitler is one of those exceptions. As is Stalin.

Back to the thing about blacks being just as fit to run a country as whites. Are you willing to make the argument that South Africa is better now than it was 30 years ago? What about Namibia?

Human differences exist. Things would go a lot better if we recognized them and compensated for them. We would have saved millions of lives in America and Africa alike if we would not hide behind your liberal curtain.

If you would like me to show you some evidence that racial differences do indeed exist, you are welcome to email me (please resist the urge to troll). My email is secularblood (at) gmail (dot) com.

Unamused’s Blog: http://unamusementpark.com/
on Tue 20 Mar 2012 at 06:56:52 Franklin

Unamused?

Is that the same Unamused who didn’t even know that “The Rule of Thumb” was an idiom, that had his entire blog consistently refuted by the infamously nutty (but accurate) Obsidian (who Unamused banned because he couldn’t handle facts), and who has been thoroughly embarrassed on this very blog?
He’s a joke who “whores out”/shamelessly plugs his worthless blog and brags about traffic, like he’s some sort of posturing 12 year old that desperately needs validation in order to prove to himself “that he’s a big boy now.”

Unamused’s blog is like “The Mad Magazine of Genetics”.
on Tue 20 Mar 2012 at 07:45:31 Bulanik

Is Unamused another Iago?
Hellbent on racial lies due to his burning jealousy of the noble Moor, Abagond…..because he’s tragically under-read on his own rubbish-blog?
on Tue 20 Mar 2012 at 07:50:26 abagond

@ Secular

“Human differences exist. Things would go a lot better if we recognized them and compensated for them. We would have saved millions of lives in America and Africa alike if we would not hide behind your liberal curtain.”

Your approach has been tried and instead of saving lives it has led to the deaths of tens of millions of people, like Jews, blacks, Gypsies and natives on three continents. “Things” only went better for white Christians.

The current racism of ordinary White Americans, a racism much milder than yours, has led to the rise of the Kleptocracy, bringing levels of class inequality even worse than famously kleptocratic Nigeria. But then again, as a Social Darwinist, you are probably proud of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/democide/
on Tue 20 Mar 2012 at 10:29:02 Satanforce

Even the mythical Wakandan empire is a better role model than modern, present day Israel largely comprised of Ashkenazi Jews.

I am going to ignore the irony of telling black people that they should not model themselves after Israel, but instead to model themselves after a fictional country created by two Jews (Stan Lee and Jack Kirby), and focus instead on why Israel would be a better role model for a Africanised country than Wakanda.

The initial problem with your statement is that it runs on the flawed Afrocentric premise “it is African therefore, it is good.” Wakanda, is simply not African. In the geographical sense, but culturally, there is no such thing as “African.” It is a creation of cynical comic writers, seeking to make money of off the zeitgeist. Stan Lee even said that he would make a comic with Spiderman punching an Arab on the cover if it would sell.

What we should do is check the last 500 years of political philosophy, science, economics (sigh) and engineering, as well as other subjects and use those to our advantage to gain power, over nature, and over men.

Lets look at Israel. A constitutional created from an international diaspora of varying peoples. They are energy independent, due to nuclear power. They can kick anyone’s ass, conventionally and nuclear – no nation in their vicinity can fuck with them!!! Through lobbying and and strategic alliances, they guaranteed the utmost support of the US . They have created a “start-up nation” , in essence, a national Silicon Valley. And most importantly, they have enslaved and destroyed the nation-state (West Bank, Gaza Strip) that opposed them. Cheap labour forever. Yes, they could be kinder, but fuck that.

And Wakanda. A hereditary monarchy. They have a fictional resource, you that shit has a peak, just like oil. Doesn’t help the other nations around him, (though he is weathy enough to do it) and therefore, no diaspora rallying around him. No sense of blackness (even when Hudlin was writing).

Now, who should we, the rightful rulers of the world, mode; ourselves after?

You mean even your satanic brainstorms cannot see the virtue – and brilliance – of fictional and mythical discourses and their application in the material realms?!

Not discourse. Simulacra. Black Panther is a depiction that doesn’t depict anything, but hides that fact the what is being depicted never existed. And no , comics are very bad (especially Marvel)
with social issues.
on Thu 22 Mar 2012 at 04:20:15 Ace

@ Sam,

Wow….

That has got to be the best shut down of a “Africa’s always been horrible” argument that I’ve ever seen.

It’s funny how these same people won’t even go into how messed up Europe was throughout the majority of it’s history…
on Thu 22 Mar 2012 at 04:32:40 V-4

Satanforce kind of has a point about Wakanda

I mean they bad talked the various modern powers at that meeting but they themselves do fuck all to help out the various countries around them.

Its a monarchy with an incredibly wealthy elite at the top with an incredibly poor bottom layer…..I mean the people at the top are pretty much techno-gods while the people at the bottom live in huts and still use spears to hunt.

Exactly why don’t they share their technology more, not only with other countries but within their own as well?

I don’t think there’s any escaping the class system they have going on if you want social mobility.
on Thu 22 Mar 2012 at 20:14:26 Satanforce

Satanforce kind of has a point about Wakanda

I know. I know. I find it hard to escape the fact of how smart and conscious I am.
on Thu 22 Mar 2012 at 22:25:43 Matari

“Lets look at Israel. A constitutional created from an international diaspora of varying peoples. They are energy independent, due to nuclear power. They can kick anyone’s ass, conventionally and nuclear – no nation in their vicinity can fuck with them!!! Through lobbying and and strategic alliances, they guaranteed the utmost support of the US . They have created a “start-up nation” , in essence, a national Silicon Valley. And most importantly, they have enslaved and destroyed the nation-state (West Bank, Gaza Strip) that opposed them. Cheap labour forever. Yes, they could be kinder, but fuck that.”

“I know. I know. I find it hard to escape the fact of how smart and conscious I am.”

*******************************************

And IMMORAL, too – which isn’t at all unexpected, given your name.

YOU would align, ally and imitate…

Theft and occupation of sovereign land, racism, hatred, oppression & mistreatment, slavery-like conditions & wages, expansionism, covert operatives/spies interfering in the affairs of sovereign nations, manufacture/buy/export hi-tech weaponry, attack Iran, (or have a proxy do it), control & own the galaxy. White Supremacy – Lite!

Yup … nice role model, indeed! Why not simply model yourself after the United States of America? The big cheese.

…yawn…

- chuckle –

No thanks Donald. I’ll stick with the imperfect, fictional Wakanda. : ))
on Fri 23 Mar 2012 at 15:14:43 Satanforce

Yup … nice role model, indeed! Why not simply model yourself after the United States of America? The big cheese.

I’m glad that you see where I’m going with this. If a Pan-African solution were created, say a 19 nation Sub-Saharan African Federal Republic (SSAFR), it would by simple definition, be a sub-continental superpower, on the level of Brazil, Russia, India, China and yes, the U.S.

But the SSAFR would lack the technical personnel or the large population density that those other nations have. It would have to defend against international intrigues and foreign intrusions, just as Israel was under seige by a seven nation army for 20 years. The SSAFR would have to resort to……. amoral means to survive. And all those means must centre on one thing – the survival and prosperity of SSAFR citizens, no matter what !!

That means using social media and reality/idiot TV shows to neutralize political opposition, subsidies for HIV-infectees to not have sex, if not outright voluntary euthanasia, development of nuclear power, and nuclear weapons, forced migration of people to urban centres so that hydropower schemes and large farms can be made etc.

All of these measures are to create a stable, majority middle class, with a controlled aristocracy, an efficient technocracy and a powerful Military-Industrial Complex, and Government -Academic -Corporate complex in a generation. Much better, and freer, than any system on the earth today, even more than the Nordic system. (sorry Myrdal.)

Theft and occupation of sovereign land, racism, hatred, oppression & mistreatment, slavery-like conditions & wages, expansionism, covert operatives/spies interfering in the affairs of sovereign nations blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah more hippie shit.

Attack the Iranian regime not Iran. There is a difference. And that is the type of difference I support. Colonization of outer space can come later.
on Fri 23 Mar 2012 at 16:00:51 Bulanik

@Satanforce – I forgot to ‘follow’ the thread on wordpress and missed this.
I’ll answer, but before I give it thought – please tell me, btw, what you mean comics are not good at social issues?
(And do you mean simulacra in the Baudrillardian way?)
on Fri 23 Mar 2012 at 16:47:16 Bliff

@Satanforce

If a Pan-African solution were created, say a 19 nation Sub-Saharan African Federal Republic (SSAFR), it would by simple definition, be a sub-continental superpower, on the level of Brazil, Russia, India, China and yes, the U.S.

You write some of the best posts on this otherwise lame black-centered blog. However, this one left me LMAO. Are you serious? An African super-power? Run by a bunch of countries who can’t even run themselves. Africa is so tribal each country is dysfunctional, unless bailed out by whites, or more likely now, by the Chinese.

I suppose they could use that Western black powerhouse nation that has been independent for over 200 yrs now – Haiti – as a template. Yes, with Haiti’s senior leadership, maybe they could pull it off.
on Fri 23 Mar 2012 at 17:54:44 Satanforce

– please tell me, btw, what you mean comics are not good at social issues?

I should have had been more specific. There several excellent comiophical and social themes like the Vertigo line from DC, Garth Ennis (Punisher Preccher, Unknown Soldier), Grant Morrison, Alan Moore etc.

My main beef is with Marvel, specifically X-Men, which oversimplifies and banalises even the simplest struggle. Look at the analogy of Prof. X as King Jr., and Magneto as Malcolm X.

I’ve never seen Prof X. being carried to jail, in fact he has Cyclops ask the police if the X-Men can assist them.

You can read this article, which does a better job than I can of showing that the X-Men, just like most other superheroes, are merely of White people’s idealizations. The X-Men, by defending Army bases (which were at the time drafting Black men for war in Vietnam), assisting the police, and fighting Magneto, are merely Uncle Toms masquerading as a civil rights analogy.

http://www.sequart.org/magazine/3201/x-men-is-not-an-allegory-of-racial-tolerance/

Other issues, such as AIDS, apartheid, passing as white/straight, are simply fixed using a comic book science solution, rather than actually examining the problem.

(And do you mean simulacra in the Baudrillardian way?)

There was originally an idea of what East Africa was, brought from the actual people that lived there(stage 1 faithful copy). Of course , well-meaning whites then super-imposed their own ideas, creating the “noble savage” (stage 2 ) which Stan Lee then copied so poorly that it had no relation with reality – a copy with no original (stage 3). Finally, we have modern day Black Panther – a European medieval style adventure transplanted int East Africa, completely unrelated to anything (stage 4).

But consider this (copyrighted) story outline that I dreamed up:

Stark Industries, in collaboration with Reed Richards, have found a way to cheaply synthesize artificial vibranium, reducing the thprice from 30,000 dollars a gram, to 3 dollars a kilo, This has caused the Wakandan economy to collapse overnight, with riots shaking the capital and calls for the Wakandan king, T’Challa to step down. Chief amongst these calls is Nobel award winning biophysicist Joseph Kenyatta, who i calling for a constitutional monarchy with a new constitution, as well as abandoning Wakanda’s isolationaist stance so that an East African republic may be created. How will T’Challa respond to this?

You think something like this will ever see the light of day? Maybe, but more than likely not.
on Fri 23 Mar 2012 at 18:03:02 Satanforce

However, this one left me LMAO. Are you serious? An African super-power? Run by a bunch of countries who can’t even run themselves. Africa is so tribal each country is dysfunctional

Ah, but Bliff, I am afraid that the facts beg to differ with you.

From Wikipedia (check sources there)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Africa#Recent_Economic_Growth

In the past ten years, growth in Africa has surpassed that of East Asia, including Japan.[8]Data suggest parts of the continent are now experiencing fast growth. The amount of growth that has been occuring is comprable or greater to that of the Asian Tiger, Latin Puma markets, gaining them the new nickname, the Lion Markets.[9] The World Bank reports the economy of Sub-Saharan African countries grew at rates that match or surpass global rates.[10][11] The economies of the fastest growing African nations experienced growth significantly above the global average rates. The top nations in 2007 include Mauritania with growth at 19.8%, Angola at 17.6%, Sudan at 9.6%, Mozambique at 7.9% and Malawi at 7.8%.[12] Many international agencies are gaining increasing interest in investing emerging African economies.[13] especially as Africa continues to maintain high economic growth despite current global economic recession.[14] The rate of return on investment in Africa is currently the highest in the developming world.[9]

as well as:

http://www.economist.com/node/21541008

Also, check this link:

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-broken-africa-stereotype/
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 07:11:45 Bulanik
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 07:54:42 sam

One thing from history when we are talking about how Africa and its history are seen and what really was:

How many of you know how big Christopher Columbus “ship” was? It was a pretty small boat, actually. Some plus 20 meters long if I don’t remember wrong. And how big were the “canoes” used along the Kongo river system from the earliest times? They were 50 to 60 meters long. They carried people and goods all across the “darkest Africa” for centuries before any white dude showed up with his tsuktsuk steam engines to the same waters.

Why not heavier boats? Because the canoes, just like those viking ships, could go trough shallow waters and navigate trough water vegetation, something that those steam engine boats could not do, even though they had nice sound and that advanced technology!

The guys living on the other side of the world in the New Caledonian islands had “canoes” even longer, carrying up 100 guys and their gear.

Ad the ships on the east coast of Africa? Well, they were bigger than any of the cogs in Europe for centuries. They were trading to Arabia and India and beyond. Some historian think all the way up to China. And this happened well before Marco Polo came back with noodles and created the spaghetti.

Also, something to think about: east africans were trading with the romans. They have discovered at least two cities (roman cities according to the white historians but it can be argued whose cities they actually were) on the east. These were trading with romans in Egypt and in Middle East via Red Sea etc.

The romans also recognised african kings and nations, they also fought long and hard wars against some of them, and if you read their texts about these african adversaries you’ll notice that the romans saw them as equal adversaries, enemies taken seriously. They were not less sub human savages than the celts or any other nations or people the romans met and fought with. Actually roman texts are more hostile and racist towards the northern people than the africans. Just read what they say about the people living beyond the germanic tribes.

So perhaps the history of Africa is not what it has been made to look like in recent decades or during last couple of centuries.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 09:53:46 Satanforce

@sam

You’re forgetting something. From Wikipedia:

They were smaller trade ships greatly surpassed in size by ships like the Great Michael, built in Scotland in 1511 with a length of 73.2 m (240 ft), and a crew of 300 sailors, 120 gunners, and up to 1,000 soldiers. The Peter von Danzig of the Hanseatic League was built in 1462 and was 51 m (167.3 ft) long. Another large ship, the English carrack Grace Dieu, was built during the period 1420–1439, was 66.4 m (218 ft) long, and weighed between 1,400 tons and 2,750 tons. The reason size is mentioned is that Columbus’ three ships were built to sail the Mediterranean sea, not the open ocean.

Machines are not the measure of men.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 12:47:04 sam

@satanf: Sure, but I just wanted to point out the fact that sea going vessels, which some argue were the reason for the expansion of the white european colonisation (and an example of more advanced technical know how of the whites vs black africans etc.) were NOT unique in the way some have seen it. And while we are here, some of the viking ships were pretty big too, from few centuries before those examples of wikipedia.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 15:02:52 SHONDIS

to get arrested outside the Sudanese Embassy to bring attention to the genocide in Sudan and South Sudan, WTF?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT!! THE POINT IS NOT TO BELIEVE THE GARBAGE THE MEDIA SAYS IS GOING ON IN AFRICA IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! if you meet someone from sudan, ask them about the genocide and i bet they will say “WHAT GENOCIDE”???
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 15:49:29 Matari

Bulanik

I love the construction/development shown in those videos you posted. It’s in sharp contrast to what the western MSM shows what;s going on in Africa.

That said, there’s something a bit unsettling about the tall apartment buildings – they seem to suggest movement towards higher population densities.

My personal preference – lol – is for a much lower skyline that lends towards a more spread out community contoured and integrated with open spaces.
People, especially children, should be closer and more connected to the land, NATURE and natural open spaces, rather than concrete, steel, and super tall hi-risers.

Perhaps those skyscrapers are the more affordable housing units for the less well to do as oppossed to the beautiful homes being constructed for the upper-middle class?

: ))
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 16:30:17 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@Matari
I love your Malcolm X picutre. I listen to him these days instead of Lil Wayne and I am a Black teen. I wish you can get other Black teens to stop listening to Lil Wayne and start listening to Malcolm X’s message and speeches. He is way more important to Black History and more inspirational.
As for the Broken Africa Sterotype, where did that come from? The last time I studied African history, there were rich civilizations such as the Mali, Songhai etc. Africa was a rich contient with gold and resources. Even though Afirca seems to be poor today, some people from Africa tell me that there are shopping mall and things in Africa. They never show that on the TV and I always wondered why.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 17:57:52 Matari

Ms.McKenzie,

“As for the Broken Africa Sterotype, where did that come from? The last time I studied African history, there were rich civilizations such as the Mali, Songhai etc. Africa was a rich contient with gold and resources. Even though Afirca seems to be poor today, some people from Africa tell me that there are shopping mall and things in Africa. They never show that on the TV and I always wondered why.”

**********************************************

Thank you. I totally agree with your opinion regarding Malcolm X vs many of today’s “commercial entertainment artists.” I’m certain there are other young people, however few they may be, who also (or will come to) share your view.

Why is Africa almost always shown in a very negative way on TV?

In a word: RACISM.

White Supremacy/Racism (whiteness) – in order to maintain itself – must elevate itself by devaluing/deflating others.
They transmit their supposed superiority and others’ supposed inferiority messages in thousands of different ways that affects everyone – whether they realize it or not.

Whiteness prefers to showcase Africa’s weaknesses and problems while failing to highlight her strengths, vast potential and material wealth/natural resources. Its intent is to own and control all or some of Africa’s vast mineral abundance because of its insatiable greed/need to consume/control everything and anything within its reach or grasp. Whiteness is like a really bad mental, emotional, spiritual sickness that cannot be cured or fixed.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 20:26:28 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@Matari
Thank you because I go to school and all they talk about is Africa being poor and not being anything. I always found that strange.
The movie, Hotel Rwanda was shown in my history class and it really made me think that Africa was poor and nothing.
Thank you for the info.
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 06:36:19 sam

@adeen:

Always when learning history remember that it is told by some one who has his/hers own agenda and opinions. This is true in every history lesson, book, documentary etc. It is very important to learn more, so that one can make more complete picture about any issue at hand.

One very important thing about Africa: it is a huge continent. When western media talks about Africa, it is the same as it would be for Europeans look at USA nothing but a part of whole Americas and treat all of USA and its people like they are just the same as anyone from Chile or Brazil. That is how western media many times treats Africa.

As for Malcolm X, I think he was one of the most important thinkers of the last century. He was not the monolithic zelot the white media has been always presenting him. He corrected his own views if he learned otherwise and got more and more information for himself for his thinking, he was studying everything all the time, and most of all: he saw the big picture and did the analysis. Very dangerous thing.

He saw the whole thing as it was: poverty and disaster of the black ghettoes, crime and narcotics, black criminals working in cahoots with white criminals, who were working for white organised crime, who was working with the local police, federal law enforcement, CIA, with the help and the blessing of the politicians, who were errand boys of the white elite who was really ruling the country.

That made him so dangerous for that whole power network. That is why they decided to kill him one way or another. The same thing happened to Martin Luther King too, after he started to talk openly about that same power stucture. He understud it too and saw it and talked about it. And was killed.
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 18:42:05 matari8017

SantaForce

“Stark Industries, in collaboration with Reed Richards, have found a way to cheaply synthesize artificial vibranium, reducing the thprice from 30,000 dollars a gram, to 3 dollars a kilo, This has caused the Wakandan economy to collapse overnight, with riots shaking the capital and calls for the Wakandan king, T’Challa to step down. Chief amongst these calls is Nobel award winning biophysicist Joseph Kenyatta, who i calling for a constitutional monarchy with a new constitution, as well as abandoning Wakanda’s isolationaist stance so that an East African republic may be created. How will T’Challa respond to this?”

*******************************

He doesn’t have to respond.

But, why not?

Apparently the Universe had other plans for this small, yet powerful African nation.

Haven’t you heard? The synthetic vibranium was discovered to have a couple of latent flaws that were somehow overlooked by the Stark-Richards consortium.

It turns out that these two literal super-geniuses (like you!) in their rush to, one: undermine Wakanda’s sovereignty, wealth, independence and two: to bring their artificial product to market — failed to conduct substantive empirical testing on what has turned out to be an inherently unstable pseudo vibranium.

Put simply, the free valence electrons in the synthetic version could not maintain and sustain its atomic orbit/integrity. Another snafu was the stock-market backlash (CRASH) caused by the fake vibranium resulted in record breaking financial losses, thereby bringing both Stark Enterprises and Richards Corp along with their hordes of financial backers to the brink of bankruptcy and financial ruin.

Subsequently, the resilient Wakandan economy currently enjoys a full recovery, along with an increased demand for vibranium, now at $40K a gram to replace the faulty synthetic product tragically failing on a global scale in electronic consumer, commercial & military industrial components and systems, not to mention the degrading spy/surveillance satellites orbiting the Earth.

T’Challa’s kingdom, prestige, honor and political base are fully restored.
Rumors about his impending marriage to Storm, a senior member of the X-MEN, have been confirmed by Wakandan press releases. An African mutual defense treaty with Wakanda’s neighbors is in its early development stages. All is going very well for the Black Panther, the sage Wakandan monarch and his people.

Tony Stark & Reed Richards are both facing civil litigation class-action law suits that will likely tie them up in court for the next 20 years.
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 19:16:18 Bulanik

@Matari, oh, now you have raised a big global issue! Affordable housing for the urbanized poor . I’m up to eyes right now, but I’d like to share my thoughts about this soon. Generally though, I see housing/property rights as less a problem of culture, and more a question of legal structure in most developing countries.
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 19:59:32 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@Sam
Thank you.
I am starting to realize that History is told by people with an agenda.I am really young, under the age of twenty five.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 03:13:26 Bliff

@Satanforce

Ah, but Bliff, I am afraid that the facts beg to differ with you.

Interesting. However, you can easily get high rates of growth starting off of a very low base, which is where Africa is now. You can never just simply extraplote this growth rates into the future. they are unlikely to last.

Africa has always had a lot of potential. There are the vast mineral deposits in the Congo and elsewhere. The Ivory Coast has great cocoa plantations ever since the cocoa tree was imported from South America during the Age of Discovery and Slavery.

However, the problem is the Africans themselves. They were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.

Africa is highly tribal and their nation-states, imposed by the Europeans, barely work. Strong man dicatators have taken over in most states and have imposed socialist bureaucratic governments. Look at what Mugabe did to Zimbabwea. Most of the people are loyal to their tribes, not the state.

The dictators spend much of the country’s wealth on building grandiose capital cities, with modern airports and modern center city areas. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is in shambles. Even Bulanik seems to be fooled by the lavish capital cities, surrounded by much vaster slums.

The Africans themselves produce mainly bureaucracy. Most college educated Africans go into the govenment, where they are expected to provide favors to their extended families. Corruption, by Western standards, is completely embedded into the system.

The Africans themselves are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Africa has been dominated by Europeans, and now the Chinese are coming in. I know the Chinese have a low opinion of blacks, so it will be interesting how it plays out.

I see no scenario in which any group of African nations rises to superpower status in anyforeseeable future.

Your Wiki link was interesting, and pointed to some current high rates of economic growth. However, even it did not indicate any thing as preposterous as a SuperPower Africa.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 04:58:44 Herneith

@Bliff:

Why don’t you go there and help them out? Invest some?
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 05:33:44 sam

@bliff:

“You can never just simply extraplote this growth rates into the future. they are unlikely to last.”

You mean like in USA? With several depressions and slumps in its record? What was the growth rate in USA last year? Oh, well…

“They were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.”

They were primitive? You mean unlike europeans out of whom majority could not read or write, who usually lived well below the poverty line, who had famines every now and then in 1800′s etc.?

Yes, they have had hard time to maintain such a rate of slavery and opression, but they try, my friend, they try. It is hard, though, without the european know how on opression. It is kind amateurish now but lucky for them, there are european, american and chinese intelligence people, soldiers, sorry advisors, and big businesses helping them to maintain the opression leves at some kind of standard.

“Africa is highly tribal and their nation-states, imposed by the Europeans, barely work.”

You are right and that is why you have all these ethnic conflicts falring up inside those european imposed un-natural states.

“Strong man dicatators have taken over in most states and have imposed socialist bureaucratic governments”.

Name one African country that is socialist. And those strong men have some backing. Example. Just recently the military took over in Mali because the government was not doing enough to deal with the tuareg rebels in north. You know why those tuaregs are fighting? Their land has uranium. Guess who are after that? Yeap…

“The dictators spend much of the country’s wealth on building grandiose capital cities, with modern airports and modern center city areas.”

Noup. The dictators hide most of their nations wealth into secret bank accounts i Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Caribian island banks. As for building modern airports and cities, you mean like USA did in 1950′s and 60′s and 70′s and…

“The Africans themselves produce mainly bureaucracy. Most college educated Africans go into the govenment, where they are expected to provide favors to their extended families. Corruption, by Western standards, is completely embedded into the system.”

Those bureacracies were created by europeans during colonial times. They were created to control the population and still do. Nepotism was also a handy tool used by the european minority to conquer and divide and they used it from Africa to India. When it is possible to feed your family by working in the bureacracy, that is where you aim to get in. Once in, you are sipposed to do favors for your bosses and help your own clients. That is called clientism, a nice system, which was also the governing system of Rome. And speaking about bureacracies, isn’t it weird that you guys always complain about the Big Government in USA?

As for the corruption, that is pretty funny coming from a guy who lives in a land where dozen banks stole 770 billion dollars from taxpayers with the help of the government. Or where a war was kept on going for the benefit of private companies for ten years. Nice.

“I see no scenario in which any group of African nations rises to superpower status in anyforeseeable future.”

That is because you have a bit naive and short view of history. Egypt was a super power for couple thousand years. How long USA has been one? A hundred, 120 yrs? Not that long in history.

“The Africans themselves are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Africa has been dominated by Europeans, and now the Chinese are coming in. I know the Chinese have a low opinion of blacks, so it will be interesting how it plays out.”

That is true, that is why they do not use knives anymore but assault rifles.

“Africa has been dominated by Europeans”

Right, and yet you claim that africans have caused their problems, this despite of your fact that Africa has been dominated by Europe. So which way it is? Did the europeans dominate africans or are the africans the cause of their plight?

“now the Chinese are coming in”

Well, according the recent studies and findings it is possible that chinese merchants have been coming in since 1300′s but who cares.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 10:57:10 satanforce

Strong man dicatators (sic) have taken over in most states and have imposed socialist bureaucratic governments.

http://www.devprac.org/2010/09/emerging-africa-how-17-countries-are-leading-the-way/

Furthermore, the number of democracies in Africa jumped dramatically from 3 in 1989 to 23 in 2010.

I will agree with you that Utopian Socialism, as fostered by leaders like Nkrumah and Nyerere, leads to economic ruin and government malfunction (as with my own experience), but this is not an inherent failing of black people, but a naive approach to human nature.

I see no scenario in which any group of African nations rises to superpower status in any foreseeable future.

Your Wiki link was interesting, and pointed to some current high rates of economic growth. However, even it did not indicate any thing as preposterous as a SuperPower Africa.

Nor do I , I simply posted a hypothetical. Especially seeing that the days of superpowers are over. We are now in a multi-polar world, with regional autocracies (Russia, Venezuela, China), vying for power.

Also, you have ignored the role of American realpolitik during the Cold War, and its effect on African states like the Congo, or Angola.

The dictators spend much of the country’s wealth on building grandiose capital cities, with modern airports and modern center city areas. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is in shambles. Even Bulanik seems to be fooled by the lavish capital cities, surrounded by much vaster slums.

You do realise that all those countries are democracies, right?

Meanwhile, the rest of the country is in shambles.

Then how did they get the capital to do that type of capital works? The governments and private sector (not the tinpot dictator stereotype you seem to have, see above). The IMF and World Bank haven’t been to keen to lend money recently, especially when your private sector is making a killing selling iron ore, cement and uranium, never mind the foreign exchange your tourism sector is pulling in.

However, the problem is the Africans themselves. They were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.

Jesus Christ man , did you miss, like, the last 50 years of historiography?

From West Africa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asanteman

The Ashanti (or Asante) are a major ethnic group in Ghana, a powerful, militaristic and highly disciplined people of West Africa. Their military power, which came from effective strategy and an early adoption of European Firearms, created an empire that stretched from central Ghana to present day Togo and Côte d’Ivoire, bordered by the Dagomba kingdom to the north and Dahomey to the east. Due to the empire’s military prowess, sophisticated hierarchy, social stratification and culture, the Ashanti empire had one of the largest historiographies of any indigenous Sub-Saharan African political entity.

and

From 1806 until 1896, the Asante Union was in a perpetual state of war involving expansion or defense of its domain. The Asante’s exploits against other African forces made it the paramount power in the region. Its impressive performance against the British also earned it the respect of European powers. Far less known than its Zulu contemporaries, Asanteman was one of the few African states to decisively defeat the British Empire in not only a battle but a war.

from East Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_adwa

It was the climactic battle of the First Italo-Ethiopian War, securing Ethiopian sovereignty and ending Italian attempts at its conquest for another three and a half decades.

As Paul B. Henze notes, “Baratieri’s army had been completely annihilated while Menelik’s was intact as a fighting force and gained thousands of rifles and a great deal of equipment from the fleeing Italians.”

Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.

I find it odd that the same critiques that you have of black Africans/people, never seem to apply to Balkan peoples , especially during WW1 and the ’90s
(they practically invented the term ethnic cleansing) or the Soviet Union post-collapse, which showed that it was a multi-ethnic state barely held together, that post collapse is unable to find funding, or maintain upkeep of itself.

@herneith

@Bliff:

Why don’t you go there and help them out? Invest some?

The fund I made isn;t doing too bad….
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 12:16:24 Franklin

@ Satanforce

Right off the top of my head, you can also add the Benin Empire (who are severely mis/under-reported), the Axumite Empire, or even Kanem Bornu as another non-primitive examples.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 12:49:24 Bulanik

@Satanforce, I get what you mean now.

When I said this: “…the virtue and brilliance of fictional and mythical discourses and their application in the material realms” I recalled what t the commenter named Franklin said regarding Sundiata Keita, the founder of the Mali Empire in the 13th century, being the story of Aragorn in JRR Tolkien’s “Lord of the Rings”, a fairly well-known story from the 20th century.
The similarities between the founder of Songhai and the Lord of the Rings, are too many to be ignored: a young hero, scourged and excluded, living in exile, but was encouraged to return, fight and be king, etc.

The character Blade is also another interesting one, the obvious imagery being the metaphor of whiteness as an acquired infection.

Then, I was thinking of story telling of ancient Egyptian: always depicted as epics of sequential art.
But, the basic struggle between good and evil in Kemet.
Take now the classic story of Ausar (Osiris): deceived by his wicked brother, Sutekh (Set), and dismembered into 14 pieces. These 14 pieces were spread throughout the land of Kemet. Auset (Isis), the wife of Ausar, was determined to restore Ausar to his former self. Auset traveled throughout the land to retrieve the dismembered pieces of Ausar. Once they were
gathered, she used a divine incantation (hekau) to re-member Ausar and conceive with him,resulting in the birth of Heru (Horus). Heru/hero.

I’m thinking of a particular narrative of this myth has Auset locating all of the dismembered pieces of Ausar, except for his phallus. This account is used to explain why there are tekhens (obelisks) in the land of Kemet. Accordingly this myth is also the first account of an “immaculate” conception. Heru’s sole purpose in life after he has achieved manhood was to vanquish evil, personified as his uncle, Sutekh, etc.etc.

The story seems symbolic of the hero’s growth through education, adversity and praxis. It’s the prototype of subsequent epic myths, and is linked directly to the principles of ancient mythologies and contemporary heroes. Comic books have become the modern literary and pictorial epic, having evolved from the traditional ancient oral epic, they’re a modern day ‘griot’.

Btw, have you read anything from the “Witchdoctor – Protector of the People” series?
http://kenjji.com/artwork/163893_VOODOO_CHILD_Cover.html
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 13:22:56 Bulanik

“Even Bulanik is fooled by the lavish capital cities..”
And what did I say, exactly?

I posted 2 links that showed buildings under construction and architectural plans from a variety of African nations following on from comments about growth in the continent. I posted no comment to accompany the links.

I’d prefer if other commenters didn’t tell me what I am fooled by because they’re upset by a couple of architectural images of Africa that don’t corroborate their white supremacist notions.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 13:29:58 Bliff

@Bulanik

What do you think of the recent Chinese involvement in Africa?
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 15:53:33 Bulanik

Chinese involvement? Running away with yourself already, I see.

“Even Bulanik is fooled by the lavish capital cities..”
And what did I say, exactly?

Show me the basis of your inference.
And, if you can’t show me, use words.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 20:26:39 Bliff

@StanForce, et al

I originally just wanted to comment on SatanForce’s statement about the Africa SuperPower. Contrary to what it may seem, I really have NO INTEREST IN AFRICA. So this will be my last go round on this topic; just so everyone knows, if you respond to this, I won’t be responding back, so save your typing fingers.

You do realise that all those countries are democracies There are still many strongman governments in Africa, whether they are officially called “democracies” or not. I don’t democracy has really taken hold yet in Africa, it’s counter to their tribal mentality.

were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Most of subSaharan Africa was preliterate before the coming of Europeans. That does not include those areas where Islam was introduced or those along the Nile Valley.

The Ashanti became an empire only after they encountered Europeans and obtained firearms in exchange for slaves and ivory.

Other commenters referred to battles in the 1800′s between Africans and Europeans. This is again, after the coming of the Europeans.

I see little to change in my original comment. That’s it – I’m done with this Africa thread. You can go and talk amongst yourselves, now.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 20:32:26 SomeGuy

Contrary to what it may seem, I really have NO INTEREST IN AFRICA.

Strange that someone would make a hobby of Black folks and not have at least a passing interest in their continent of origin.

Bliff, I don’t think you are taking this hobby seriously!
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 21:18:26 Bulanik

@Someguy,

“Strange that someone would make a hobby of Black folks and not have at least a passing interest in their continent of origin.”

Also strange is the assumption that other commenters care, or pay any mind to his non-interest in the subject….
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 21:37:08 teddy1975

Satanforce, the Ashanti, one of the most notorious slave trading peoples in all of Africa, still not entirely forgiven by others, might not be the best counter example to the broken Africa stereotype.
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 22:41:40 Bulanik

@Matari
“Perhaps those skyscrapers are the more affordable housing units for the less well to do as oppossed to the beautiful homes being constructed for the upper-middle class?”

But for most poor people pouring into the world’s rapidly developing cities those skyscrapers are the beautiful homes constructed for the middle-class! Most of the world’s urbanized poor don’t even have access to cheaper, affordable housing units at all. Research into this (UN Social Policy Division) points out that fast expanding cities are usually 2 cities within one – one part of the urban population that has all the benefits of urban living, and the other part, the slums and squatter settlements. The differences can be extreme:

Estimates of the African continent’s slum population is in the region of 200million people (the continent of Asia has in excess of 581million slum dwellers), and this figure accounts for around 60% of Africa’s urban population. I certainly do not know the first thing about how this circle can be squared, Matari. Nevertheless, I do feel that structural change is necessary, and some issues are worth looking at from different angles because they may possess the potential for positive change.

It’s big and complicated issue. A lot of factors come into play.

In countries like South Africa and Nigeria, the response to slum dwellings has been to adopt strategies that involve national and city-based housing policies and targets. This has led to creation of specialized agencies to handle the work of urban housing by acquiring assistance from the World Bank and UN to implement national or city-based housing-related projects. It sounds good, doesn’t it —- but do these initiatives work without the political will and leadership to carry-through on commitments? Is the existing structure in place that is conducive to change and improvement?

I think the needs of the poor overwhelm most African leaders.
Perhaps some of the smaller and more subtle issues which may seem less obviously significant or ‘less important’ are worth looking at?

For example, what about the industrious young Africans who survive as the ‘urbanized poor’? Shouldn’t they have more say? In the context of fair and free elections, wouldn’t it benefit African countries to have the political input of the young, enlightened electorate?
(And of course, wouldn’t it also be extremely helpful that the structures are in place to make a vote actually count as well?)

The population of Africa is the youngest and fastest growing in the world – can’t this so-called “youth bulge” be converted into a growth opportunity by lowering the voting age in many African countries to 16? People between the ages of 12 and 18 on the continent are actively employed, participate in political discussion ANYWAY through social media, and make household decisions. Yet they cannot vote. In Kenya, for example, which has a population of 38 million, about 4 million people are aged between 12 and 18, most of whom are socially, economically and politically active.
This *vote* idea that was put forward by Celestous Juma, Professor of Development, Harvard.

I realize that a one bullet approach to this big challenge is never enough. It’s a combination of many things. Equity is grounded in having free and fair elections to begin with, and young people need some formal as well informal political education. But having said that – do older leaders whose worldviews were shaped by more traditional societies actually realize the extent to which modern technologies and education have shifted power from centralized authorities to social networks?

I believe many commentators both in and outside of Africa recognize youth unemployment as a potential source of political instability. However, most of the policy proposals for addressing joblessness focus on stand-alone skill development efforts. They seem to underestimate infrastructure as the motherboard of job creation. In fact, I am not sure at all that critical infrastructure projects are recognized as the key strategic player that it is.

Can we look at Nigeria again:
Nigeria spends almost $90bn a year on food imports. Reducing this import bill will require investment in infrastructure such as reliable energy, transport, telecommunications and irrigation.

Nigeria’s plentiful arable land is not being cultivated partly because of poor roads. Surveys indicate that between 20% and 47% of rural people live within 2km of roads that are accessible all year. Not good.

Nigeria has one of Africa’s most elaborate railway networks, second only to South Africa. But, my reading tells me that traffic volumes has dropped off at the rate of five trucks a day, from 3m tonnes a day in 1960 to about 15,000 tonnes in 2005. Over the same period, passenger traffic dropped from 3 million to 500,000 a year. This is the World Bank policy research paper on Nigeria’s Infrastructure, by Foster and Pushak.

I think it is a mistake to put youth employment on the back burner. China made the same mistake of focusing more on the timely completion of construction projects and less on employment generation. Thus it has to be policy. A spin off from this type of job creation policy is the opportunity to upgrade a country’s internal technical training opportunities.
For example, partnering with local colleges, training institutes and vocational schools.

Malaysia did just this.
Kuala Lumpur public works department’s Institute was converted into the Kuala Lumpur Infrastructure University College in 2003. Its 6 schools focus on engineering, information technology, communication and languages, applied sciences and architecture.
Malaysia is a good example in this detail. Why? Because it was once a country divided by religious/ethnic strife, and pulled itself back from the brink by using an aggressive development policy to unite its people through training. Instead of strife, focus was on producing more technical workers: builders, welders, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, metal workers.

And, it is quite possible that these initiatives also groom entrepreneurs. For example, I have heard that Digital Bridge Institute in Lagos is a prime candidate for training young people. If the Nigerian Ministry of Telecoms expanded its field of interest, couldn’t it provide technical training across the board? I know many colleges in the continent are in the private sector – but couldn’t privately funded colleges benefit from an educated population once they were in the workforce?

Another factor – don’t African women need to have control over the size of their families? What about a “Stop at 2″ maxim instead of being exhausted and trapped with ten, instead, in a poverty cycle in a slum dwelling?

The continent is so large, there are dozens of countries, the problems complex and interlocking…
Regarding housing I have to ask – is the statist approach the only one that can work to tackle this problem? Capitalism works – it works in most of the world if it is restricted to a small elite, while most remain on the outside looking in! IMO, poverty is not simply due to the evil intentions of capitalists or capitalist countries. Sure enough, powerful interests in developing countries do not want to make the system more inclusive – but that is another discussion. But why can’t existing legal systems be adapted to the way that poor people really live?

Countries of the West all have a matrix of financial and legal systems that enable people to use their assets to create further wealth: tools like mortgages, publicly traded stocks, etc. When a society has such a thing as strong, defined property rights, it then has access to capital, since these assets can then be used to generate loans, credit, insurance, liabilities and the general machinery of capitalism.

In other countries, most people live and work outside the kind of invisible asset management infrastructure that we take for granted in the West, and thus are unable to use their assets for the “representational purposes” we are able to. That means that the full set of capitalist tools are not available to them and it becomes incredibly hard to realize any kind of upward mobility.

The ultimate hurdle here is lack of the social awareness and a need for political backing which is necessary to implement major legal change in the face of resistance from an entrenched bureaucracy, and the elites who benefit from the status quo.

Edward de Soto Polar developed this theory and practice:

The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else

*End of ramble*
on Mon 26 Mar 2012 at 23:06:06 JT

Anyone else find it wierd that Black people are Bliff’s hobby?

Do you think it is because he identifies with Black people on some level?
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 02:06:34 Bliff

@JT

a hobby…not the hobby; really an interest of mine, not my only interest. Would you find it odd that some people have an interest in watching football? Would that mean that’s all they do? Think first next time, JT.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 11:07:11 Bulanik

@Matari

And what are some Africans are doing to create homes and cities, living and work environments? Some approaches to this question are pro-active and progressive; some city planners believe that they can build homes in places that are both ecological and promote the economy.

Note what is underway in Anam City, Anambra State, Nigeria:

An essential part of the city’s sustainability is the setting up of poultry and fish farms. The Anam people are already successful farmers who produce an estimated 70% of the food in their State in yams, cassava and fish. That independence and work-ethic is the characterizing feature of the population —– and cornerstone of this city’s future.

For these farmers, the urban market is the locus of economic activity and livelihood because it encourages diversity and opportunity. For the Anam people to compete with a globalized marketplace, the project works with the community to grow more resilient agricultural systems that can integrate technology with sustainable land use.

The region is prone to annual flooding for 2 months of the year. Part of the city planning is to preserve and manage these wetlands. This is consistent with the idea that ecological priorities must be integrated to understanding of what is ‘urban’.

I think this way of building cities is:
“agropolitan” or “rurban” — not many skyscrapers!
In other words, cities that combines the benefits of modern urban living with those of rural communities and traditional produce-bearing landscapes.
In essence it harnesses the opportunities already present in local economies but equal importance is given to the use of technology.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 11:37:03 Bulanik

@Matari

And what about housing building that is ecological and suited to the environment?

In Nigeria’s northern state of Kaduna, a house has been built entirely from plastic bottles filled with sand, it will the first of 25:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56545000/jpg/_56545508_bottle-house464.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2IZXIf3Fmvc/Tk980PIx9zI/AAAAAAAABcg/TvFpaPZXq0A/s320/bottle_house.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qbhUGkqYCiQ/Tk98zwZxyGI/AAAAAAAABcY/aUvLaPoWh0M/s320/plastic_bottle_house.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56546000/jpg/_56546783_photosaugust2011021.jpg

It’s not the first of its kind, a the idea was first hatched in India, providing a cost-effective, environmentally-friendly alternative to conventional building bricks.

A bottle house costs one third of what a similar house made of concrete and bricks would cost, and is also more durable because compacted sand is 20 times stronger than bricks. Buildings made from this material cannot be higher than three-floors, however.

The bottle houses are also ideally suited to the hot Nigerian climate because the sand insulates them from the sun’s heat, helping to keep room temperatures low. And another unexpected plus: because of the compacted sand, the houses are bullet-proof – a ‘plus’ because the unstable recent history of the northern states of the country makes this an unfortunate reality.

Houses of this kind have a firm concrete foundation laid to ensure that the structure is firm and stable – and the sand is sieved to make sure it is compact. The sieving process removes the stones, ensuring it passes through the mouth of the bottle.

And the bottles?
Mainly sourced from hotels and restaurants.
There is presently no sand shortage to fill the bottles, but this is something which will need addressing.

According to market research company Zenith International, most water in Nigeria is sold in small plastic bags, but it says the bottled water market is growing – accounting for about 20-25% of official sales, the equivalent of up to 500m litres a year.

This means discarded plastic bottles are actually sought after in Nigeria where they are often used for storage or by street vendors to sell produce like peanuts. The bottles for these houses are currently being sourced from hotels, restaurants, homes and foreign embassies.

The impact of this kind low-height ecologically-minded project is also potentially useful prospect because it could help to remove children who do not go to school from their life on the streets. The job of this kind of building work well is suited to the labour of older children.

After the 25 houses have been completed, the next construction project will be a school on the estate – primarily for the education of the children who work the streets in this area.

The project was started by Development Association for Renewable Energies
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:03:32 abagond

@ Bliff

Are you fucking crazy???!!! Use the n-word again, even with asterisks, and I will fucking ban you.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:12:54 Bliff

@SatanForce

You’re funny, you know Bliff? Research your claims before committing to them.

Akan Script – Asanteman
Nsibi Script
Geez Script -Ethiopia, approx. 500B.C.

Akan uses a Latin script. Europeans devised the script for the Akan language when they arrived. The Akans had the language, the Europeans invented the writing for them.

Nsibidi is a primitive proto-writing symbology from the Nigeria region. It is a primitive set of symbols, not a true language.

Geez Script, has been used in the Ethiopia area, which is the Nile Valley, not subSaharan Africa. The script has Semitic roots, not Negroid roots, in South Arabia. Again, from Semitic, white people.

Who’s funny now, SatanForce?
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:33:51 sam

@bliff:

You are funny.

Nubians in present day southern Sudan had their own alphabet and writing already in 100 AD, perhaps even before. Your great great great great great great grand parents did not even know how to read or write. At that time their kingdom was well below Sahara. Around 700 Bc their empire consisted whole of Nubia, Kush, from Meroe to the Libanon in middle east. Burns your behind, doesn’t it?

But never mind the alphabets. You do know that other civilizations, like the incas, used totally different kind of symbol system as a means to communicate, that is to “write” without using letters? You did not know that? Oh my oh my…

So, you do not know everything about all?? Tsot tsot…
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:37:24 sam

@bliff:

You are funny part 2.

“the Ethiopia area, which is the Nile Valley”

Back to school, my friend. Take few geography classes first, before some history. Ethiopia is not the Nile valley.

Sorry about that but hey, you are a product of the american school system so I forgive your ignorance on the geography too.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:42:15 Bulanik

@Satanforce

Re Nsibi Script

I’ve seen a couple of examples of this writing system:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/424462_286167931454155_111498838921066_668497_1577307124_n.jpg

And it reminded me, somehow of early Chinese : http://www.ancientscripts.com/images/chinese_stages.gif

Aren’t the Adkinkra written symbols that form Akan script elegant?
http://www.adinkra.org/htmls/adinkra_index.htm

The Nordic runic symbols have simpler lines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CodexRunicus.jpeg

Even if Akan is now written in modern Western script, it is the first language to have that faith. Look at Turkish, for example, it dropped using Ottoman script in the 20th century.

And Ge’ez? Isn’t this a Cushite tongue, indigenous to the Horn of Africa? Didn’t The late Soviet scholars A.B Dolgopolsky and Igor Diakonoft NOT classify this Ethiopic language as a “south Semitic”, and gave Geez its own independent classification?

This has been studied, and Geez is 100% African.
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/what-is-semitic-by-prof-ayo/
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 13:44:49 Bulanik

*I meant to say that Akan is not the first language to use modern script*
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 15:27:56 satanforce

@ Bliff

This look like a Latin Script to you?

http://www.adinkra.org/htmls/adinkra_index.htm
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 15:31:30 Bulanik

Satan – sent it upthread, babe.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 16:25:30 satanforce

Please delete above post

@ Bliff

This look like a Latin Script to you?

http://www.adinkra.org/htmls/adinkra_index.htm

Damn, even Bulanik beat me to it, thanks B!

Geez Script, has been used in the Ethiopia area, which is the Nile Valley, not subSaharan Africa. The script has Semitic roots, not Negroid roots, in South Arabia. Again, from Semitic, white people.

To add to Sam’s comments, your claim is like saying that the word “machine” is Greek, because it originates from the world “mechanos”. The language tree for Ge’ez is as follows

Afro-Asiatic

Semitic
South Semitic
Ethiopian Semitic
North Ethiopian Semitic

“the Ethiopia area, which is the Nile Valley”

Back to school, my friend. Take few geography classes first, before some history. Ethiopia is not the Nile valley.

No Sam, you have to see with him. His educational system is primitive. We’ll need to draw a picture for him. He just won’t understand grid co-ordinates.

Nsibidi is a primitive proto-writing symbology ….. It is a primitive set of symbols, not a true language.

You seem to be mixing up the words “language” and “alphabet”. Because if not, then you would be implying that that Africans have no spoken language, and communicated using animal -like sounds. But if you are saying that proto-writing symbology such as ideograms and logograms are “primitive”, then we may as well call the Japanese (Kanji, Hirigana, Katakana), Chinese and Aztecs primitive.

Other commenters referred to battles in the 1800′s between Africans and Europeans. This is again, after the coming of the Europeans.

The person usually has to be at the place of the battle in order for the battle to take place. Thus, you’re above comment is a bit redundant. Hey, the Africans had to be at least a tad bit sharp to defeat the Europeans with their own weapons, right?

There are still many strongman governments in Africa, whether they are officially called “democracies” or not.

Please cite some examples.

it’s counter to their tribal mentality.

Considering that most peoples (that I know) on Africa are people who marry “inter-tribally”, I’d say that Africans are quite capable of making a Union State, much less, a nation-state.

Who’s funny now, SatanForce?

Still you. Right everybody?
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 16:52:59 Matari

Bulanik

Three words to summarize your latest video offerings:

-Happy

-Prosperous

-Thriving

Three existential things the western media is most likely NOT to televise re Africa.
Thank you!
Pease keep up the good works, even if some of us can’t keep up with YOU!

: ))
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 17:32:00 Matari

Bulaniik

“This has led to creation of specialized agencies to handle the work of urban housing by acquiring assistance from the World Bank and UN to implement national or city-based housing-related projects. It sounds good, doesn’t it —- but do these initiatives work without the political will and leadership to carry-through on commitments? ”

****************************************************

The mere mention of the World Bank and the UN, for me, conjures up nasty images of western corruption – both financial and political. I don’t like or trust either of these institutions.The solutions to housing the poor, for example imo, should come from innovative grass-root leaders, scholars and thinkers that are FROM the problem areas. We already have a ton of examples why the IMF, WB, WTO and UN solutions don’t/won’t work. Greed, corruption and the desire for control/power/hegemony.

The best outcome is to enable, empower and allow the indigenous populations to solve their own issues. There are some GREAT forward thinking young (and old) African minds already at work, seeking/offering long term plans and solutions for Africa’s people.

———

BTW, I love the idea of bottle housing! If waste is used to produce and construct useful/beneficial products – everyone wins!
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 17:32:20 Herneith

Still you. Right everybody?

Right you are chap! Bliff is a ras hole!
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 17:38:33 satanforce

Three existential things the western media is most likely NOT to televise re Africa.

You should be grateful!! You have any idea how high equity prices would be if people found out that Africa was industrialising? Best to get in now when prices are low.

@teddy 1975

Satanforce, the Ashanti, one of the most notorious slave trading peoples in all of Africa, still not entirely forgiven by others, might not be the best counter example to the broken Africa stereotype.

When it comes to getting money and guns, the ends justify the means.

@Bulanik

I think its great that poor people leaving the country to go to slums and squatter camps. I’m a bit busy right now, so check what Stewart Brand has to say here.

http://web.me.com/stewartbrand/DISCIPLINE_footnotes/3_-_Urban_Promise.html
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 18:52:00 Bliff

I will interrupt my self-imposed exile for just this brief message.

I am no Africa expert. Apparently, Africa has brought novel ideas to the entire world, besides spear chucking.

There is that noble practice of….female genital mutilation. The one the West couldn’t come up with. Perhaps Bulanik could bring this practice with her from Mother Africa.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 19:10:25 SomeGuy

There is that noble practice of….female genital mutilation. The one the West couldn’t come up with. Perhaps Bulanik could bring this practice with her from Mother Africa.

Nah, some Europeans should just stick to what they know best: Child Abuse, White Sexual Slavery and Ruining National economies. You know, the good stuff!
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 19:15:26 Bulanik

@Satanforce

The ingenuity: incremental infrastructure built on the entrepreneurship of selling handsets to local customers. As revenue comes in, another tower is built….
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 19:47:40 sam

@bliff:

“There is that noble practice of….female genital mutilation. The one the West couldn’t come up with.”

Ok, buddy, you asked for it. And I assume you mean whites with the term West?

Ok. Lets see. Every one knows what it was like in the medieval times so just to spare some space here and abagonds nerves I bring you the western stuff since 1500′s.

Religious wars from 1500′s up untill 1600′s in the continent and up to 1990′s in Northern Ireland. The religious wars in France in 1500′s claimed up to 200 000 victims, some estimates are even higher. Mutilation was not only typical, it was the usual method of getting rid of the opponents.

30yrs war (1621-48) by the way was the most destructive event to face Europe up till that time and before Napoleons wars, WW1 and WW2. That was destruction on a biblical scale, so much so that northern Germany was reduced form a green agricultural land into a barren desolet waste land populated by flys only, as one soldier once wrote. Normal practises in that war were: skinning, slaughtering, burning, mass lynching, torture on massive scale and some few thousand witch burnings to go along. Swedes (and finns among them) invented a swedish drink. They poured urine and such into someone untill his stomach was totally bloated and after that they jumped up and down on that individuals stomach, untill it bursted open or internally. Nice, huh?

Holy roman inquistion is well known but its counter part Spanish inquisition (which was independent organ working under the Spanish royalty) was much more original. They had a massive spike, three feet high, widening at the base, into which women were lowered so that the spike penetrated their private parts and lowered still untill women were ripped apart. The famous burining at the stake was considered as an act of mercy since it shortened the time spent in the purgatory. So they tried to burn the victims as slowly as possible for the joy of their ideology. And this went on for few hundred years totally among the westeners.

If we move into USA and genital mutilation, when the colorado volunteers massacred the peaceful natives in Sand Creek, they took some souveniers. They made money pouches from the testicle sacks of the dead natives, pinned male genitals into their hats as trophies and also female genitals, they had legs, thigs, breasts and heads on spikes as trophies as well as killed native children. These were shown to a white publuc on a victory parade held later and received a great joy and jubilation among the white population.

And of course, there were the lynchings of the blacks in which genital mutilation was fairly common feature. And these went on at least untill 1930′s in your beloved US of A.

And of course there are other snappy methods of mutilationa and mayhem that those africans never came up: the flame throwers which made their debut at the battle of Verdun in 1916 and poison gas used as weapon, machine gun which helped the britts to mow down thousands of natives in Sudan early 1900′s. Even Winston Churchill who was at present was impressed when they lost only few men and the natives lost thousands in few hours.

And one thing those africans never came up with was that A bomb. Now that is some serious destructive bisnes right there.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 20:04:30 Bulanik

@sam

And, don’t forget Marion J. Sims, the Father of Modern American Gynaecology, who cut open slave women’s bodies and mutilated their reproductive organs in the name of science.

Another thing Sam, regarding the genital cutting in Africa.
I’ve always noticed that many white supremacists have the habit of talking about black Africans, by always referring to “them” as ssAfricans, sub-Saharan. As if to differentiate them from totally *the unrelated* and *totally different* Africans north of the Sahara. It’s especially so when they want to talk about Egyptian civilization.

But weren’t the female mummies of ancient Egypt all genitally cut in the same way women throughout many other parts of Africa are cut to this day? Like Egypt isn’t Africa, and Egyptians weren’t just like other Africans?
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 20:22:24 sam

@bulanik: For all my knowledge this old custom is very rare in sub Saharan Africa but more common in the southern Sahara area, around Sudan, Tshad, and northern Ethopia and Somalia etc. in the east. I have no knowledge opf this custom among the central african people. I might be wrong.

This cutting Africa into two parts divided by Sahara is funny since Sahara was steppe and savanna until few thousand years ago. Also rivers like Nile and coastal traffic had not stopped going trough or around that area. Timbuktu is a fine example of how much there used to be traffic across the Sahara during centuries.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 20:27:49 B. R.

I refer at times to sub sahara Africa to define a cultural genius that came from there that can be found all over sub sahara Africa, and, is differant from the culture that is in north of the Sahara Africa (although traces of it are in north Africa also, but, there is a deep Arab influence also up there).

Where there are huge cultural differances from tribe to tribe, area to area, there is a cultural expresion that have similar properties that is the gift that sub Sahara Africa has given the world
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 20:35:47 Bulanik

@sam…. the land has changed tremendously.
I suppose it’s not called Phaoronic circumcision by accident.
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 21:04:03 Bulanik

@Matari
on Tue 27 Mar 2012 at 21:16:38 B. R.

Talk about the broken Africa concept and how people outside of Africa look at Africans, here is a excerpt from Che Guevara’s diary. wow, it is pretty shallow :

On July 17, 1952, age 24, in his personal diary, Che Guevara wrote[1]: “The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have conserved their racial purity by a lack of affinity with washing, have seen their patch invaded by a different kind of slave: The Portuguese. These two races now share a common experience, fraught with bickering and squabbling. Discrimination, and poverty unite them in a daily battle for survival but their different attitudes to life separate them completely: the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead, even independently, of his own individual aspirations
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 03:39:54 Bliff

@sam

Cool!! I love Western violence. I am so proud of our boys.
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 12:29:51 B. R.

I have to confess, one of my biggest dreams is to visit a country in Africa , like Gana, Angola, Kenya, Senegal.

I dont know if I will ever be able to do that, but, I would love to go to one of the modern cities, stay in a nice hotel and be able to see as much music as posible since music and dance is a tremendous live experiance that have a big affect on me. Especialy the state folkloric danca and drummers. Ways to see the traditions and histories.

Id really like to find out the true Africa instead of the media Africa
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 23:48:06 Dahoman X

For those curious about african writing systems, there is this book, by Saki Mafundikwa:
http://creativeroots.org/2011/11/afrikan-alphabets-book-by-saki-mafundikwa/

A review of the book (with some pictures):
http://kintespace.com/rasx46.html

@ Bulanik

Have you ever heard of Aminata Traore? She summed up your many interrogations in one single question: what kind of development do we (Africans) want for of Africa?
In an interview she was asked: “What does it take to give Africans a dignified life?”
Her answer:

In the first place it takes self respect and a belief in our own capabilities. Real development needs the fertile basis of a lively culture that constantly feeds new solutions. (…)
Real development should also be based on a culture that found the right balance with the surrounding environment. Because every culture primarily is a transformation of the earth, the forests and the soil. Economics, ecology and culture are the three pillars that carry a society. From the moment that triangle is balanced, we can build a society that no longer robs people from their own dignity, knowledge and dreams. Then we can make a future for our own people. If we could have defined for ourselves what democracy is made of, we would have found ways to question and sanction our leaders for example. Because when the moral point of view is shared, the powerful are obliged to listen to the powerless.

http://www.mo.be/node/23000

Aminata Traore is particularly critical of the neoliberal policies enforced in Africa during the last 2 decades. More about her ideas here:
http://www.guinguinbali.com/index.php?lang=en&mod=news&task=view_news&cat=3&id=372
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 23:56:25 silentreturn

BR, Start saving a little bit now.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 00:33:45 silentreturn

@Bliff
‘Nsibidi is a primitive proto-writing symbology from the Nigeria region. It is a primitive set of symbols, not a true language.’

By that logic, hieroglyphs and cuneiform is not writing either.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 03:03:41 Bliff

the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead, even independently, of his own individual aspirations

Ya see – if duma$$ Che Guevara had the low down on blacks. A race realist like me couln’t said it any better. This is a pretty typical international-wide opnion of blacks.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 03:23:44 SomeGuy

Ya see – if duma$$ Che Guevara had the low down on blacks. A race realist like me couln’t said it any better. This is a pretty typical international-wide opnion of blacks.

Since you are so fond of quotes, here’s one:

“Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.”
-Immortal Technique
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 04:25:04 sepultura13

If we move into USA and genital mutilation, when the colorado volunteers massacred the peaceful natives in Sand Creek, they took some souveniers. They made money pouches from the testicle sacks of the dead natives, pinned male genitals into their hats as trophies and also female genitals, they had legs, thigs, breasts and heads on spikes as trophies as well as killed native children. These were shown to a white publuc on a victory parade held later and received a great joy and jubilation among the white population.

Truth spoken. Also, the scrotal sacks of native men, and the breasts of native women, would be dried and cured, and used as tobacco pouches and black-powder (for guns) pouches.

White europeans (the French, specifically) are the ones who originally engaged in the practice of scalping – they called it ‘counting coup’.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 04:36:56 sam

@bliff:

And what did he (Che Guevara) do? Did he went on bashing blacks, did he went on stating that blacks are less than human, that they do not deserve the same rights as whites, that blacks are not equal with whites? Did he say that black cubans are less cubans than white cubans? Was he burning crosses and killing blacks for fun?

No.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 04:41:38 sam

@sepultra:

It was also pretty common practise among the celts to take the heads of their enemies. It was called “taking beards”. This habbit was practised at least till late roman times and perhaps even till later.

Also let us not forget the romans, those civilized white heros of the past: in one 107 days lasting games given by emperor Trajanus some 30 000 people were killed in Colosseum alone. That is fed to the beasts, killed by any other means, and of course, killed by each other. All this for the great amusement of the audience.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 04:51:54 Linda

In 1964, Che Guevara then denounced the United States policy towards their black population, stating:

“Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom worldwide?”
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 09:50:10 Bulanik

@Dahomen X

“Have you ever heard of Aminata Traore? She summed up your many interrogations in one single question: what kind of development do we (Africans) want for of Africa?”

No, I’ve not heard of Aminata Traore before, so thank you for the introduction.
A lot of things are new to me. I take an interest in Africa and the questions about it, because I feel the continent (its histories, its peoples, etc) is central to an understanding of the world around us.

IMHO, I think one doesn’t have to be African oneself to appreciate the seriousness, the complexities, beauty and supreme importance of Africa’s development by Africans.

Re: the link about Saki Mafundikwa – wow – very interesting! Thank you.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:04:23 B. R.

Sorry , Linda, Guevara’s racsim is blatent in his statement about Africans no matter what he states about Americans.

Sam, you do know that some of Guevaras solderscomplained of his racism?

You do know that the Congolease communists kicked Guevara out because he was too radicle in his methods ?

You do know that a bunch of black scholars has condemned Castros Cuba as racist

You do know that Fidel and Guevara executed more poeple than the militarry dictaroships of Cile, Argentin and Brazil put together?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:13:12 B. R.

I mean that is an important question for Africa, do you want just any white man coming in…a white man like Guevara ? Who demonstrates without a doubt that he is racist to the core calling Africans frivilous and saying they smell bad but can mouth the right things about what is wrong with America ?

After that passage in his diary, I wouldnt cut Che Guevara any slack what so ever…

In my book he was a meglomaniac
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:15:48 Bulanik

@Linda

An excellent quote from Guevara.
It appears the US has learned very little, and as defensive as the propaganda is, little seems to have changed since his writings. Guevara himself was one man….US policy is quite a different matter.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:22:51 B. R.

Bulanik…Gueveras trips to Africa were sponsered by the Soviet Union, since they were sponsoring Cuba. They were everybit and more involved with trying to spread their flawed ideaology over the globe as the USA, and Africa was caught right in the middle of both of these ideologies
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:25:16 Bulanik

B.R…what don’t understand about the pertinence of this:

“Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom worldwide?”

?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:26:56 B. R.

Seriously, if any person can read what Guevera said about Africans, and still think he was some noble fighter for justice and equality and really have the interests of black people in his heart…i have to question their logic
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:28:47 B. R.

What do you not understand about ” Africans are frivolous..they dont bathe…”?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:29:48 Bulanik

B.R.
You are saying that the quote has no pertinence to the US and is untrue and unbelievable because of who/what uttered it?

How interesting…
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:31:29 B. R.

If that is the kind of white man you think is fine to look to for inspiration..becaue he can mouth something about the USA who was his sworn enemy, who would like to find their weakness ?

But fundimentaly he looks down on Africans ?

He is a basic racist ?

What is wrong with your logic ?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:32:19 Bulanik

What do you not understand about the KILLINGS of Trayvon Martin, Remarley Graham…..and so many, many others. B.R.? Is all you can come back with is anecdotes about body odour?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:33:15 B. R.

How interesting, Guevera is no better than Doug 1, Bliss, or any other racist on here who sais disgusting things about black people

and he is ok with you?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:33:41 Bulanik

“inspiration”?
Excuse me? Speak your mind, B.R.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:35:36 Bulanik

Tell me about the killings of those
“…they discriminate daily against …. because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom worldwide?”

Tell me. Show me your paternalistic compassion.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:36:12 B. R.

It is absolutly plain and clear that Guevera, a blatent racist , is as bad for Africa as any colonial power out there. He is as guilty as any other power that came into Africa to exploit it and start wars…

And that is ok for you ?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:39:24 Bulanik

Tell me about US policy in Africa, B.R.?
And then you can tell me if it’s worse than comments about b.o.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:41:47 Bulanik

Tell me about US policy in the murders of black men and black women in the US, while you are at it, and what that has to do with lack of antiperspirant deodorant use?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:44:33 Bulanik

And, tell me what you mean, exactly, and without waffle – what you mean by Guevara giving me “inspiration”? Tell me, B.R.

I would like to know.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:45:32 B. R.

So what the USA did in Africa and the colonial powers is what is bad but the Soviet Union sponsering Cuba and people like Guevera to come there and start wars is ok ?

Looking down on Africans while you come in to start wars and destruction to get power of recources for you and your sponsoring country with a flawed ideilogy to begin with is just fine ?

The hypocricy is mind boggling..see I know both sides are dirty
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:46:53 B. R.

So you give Guevera a pass? After what he puts in his diary…
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:48:30 Bulanik

B.R.
You cannot answer the questions, can you?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 10:50:15 B. R.

You arent going to call Guevera what he is …a blatent racist ?

He is no better than what we have heard from Doug ,Bliff, No Slaps the lot of them

disgusting
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 11:06:51 Bulanik

B.R.

I think you have been exposed. Doesn’t the black body count, mounting daily, resonate with you?

The quote referred to today’s US, happening now…and you can only waffle on about body odour and name a few ‘race realist’ commenters? —- instead of discussing US policy, honestly, sincerely – which is the point, a very painful point – that you cannot look at, because it’s inconvenient to your sense of being a basically good white American.

IMO, Patriotism certainly has its necessary place and importance.
Yet, I think yours blinds you to what is actually under discussion, B.R.!

So much for the deep compassion you have for the black Americans you hold in such high esteem, for they are, to quote you:
“…incredibly intelligent, resiliant and have reached a very high dynamic of awareness of the parameters of racism. And it is so powerful that even the racist whites have to bend to it .”

Have you thought that perhaps many, many black people may even find US’s policy towards the killing of black people DISGUSTING?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 11:10:32 Bulanik

B.R.

And, you still haven’t explained what you mean by “inspiration” from Guevara, because I really do not know what you are on about. Please could you tell me.

You could do me that courtesy.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 11:25:06 Matari

“Ya see – if duma$$ Che Guevara had the low down on blacks. A race realist like me couln’t said it any better.”

********************************

You and your brethren ought to quit with the phony pretense and just come out of the closet. “Race Realist” is purely a PC way of saying REAL RACIST. Racism (and racists) haven’t changed. Only the language/lexicon has.

Also, if Che Guevara is a “duma$$,” comparatively speaking that makes you (and other real racists) extraordinarily stupid/deluded duma$$es. A trait that you persist on continually showing the world. Despite the grievous offense you bring to my nostrils, I fully understand why Abagond permits your stinking presence to foul up the air in here.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 12:06:57 B. R.

Bulanik , this is the Broken Africa thread. I already said they both were dirty…does that rersonate with you at all? Im making posts on other threads, I suggest you read them.

You were inspired enough by Gueveras scripted words , prepared as his propaganda page to defend them brought in by Linda, against his emotional entry into his diary that reveals he is a blatent racist , which seems to mean nothing to you.

You absolutly cannont discuss broken Africa seriously without examining all the sides who were involved breaking it, and , Guevera, a man who personaly brought his flawed idealogy, who reveals himself to be a racist with a very low opinion of Africa,started armed revolutions , death and destruction in Africa, is as guilty as the USA and all the colonising powers to the factors that contribure to the things that are ailing some of the African countries today. He is part of the whole truth about broken Africa

Yet you fail to acknowledge that,and , are attacking me, have mischaractorised me right along the way since the other thread . . You are trying to shift talking about broken Africa into American racism when Guevara personaly was in Africa promoting death and destruction.

One thing you should know. Communism never was interested in racsim and the civil rights for black people
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 12:13:25 B. R.

By the way, Im not like any of the people on here who call Obama a socialist or scream “commie” at any inteligent solutions

They dont know what real communists are

I do, I have researched the numbers of people eliminated under the flawed ideaology of communism . There was a real reason to fight communism , but not what the dorks you see screaming “commie” coming in here know anything about

When I talk about communism Im not talking anything like what those chumps are railing about
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 12:31:04 B. R.

Actualy, what Im really saying is that, all the conflicts, the colonizers, the powers that invaded for riches , the Gueveras backed by Fidel in Cuba with Soviet support…etc

All these things are what contriburted to the broken Africa stereotye.They were the conflicts that take away the attention from anything good and growing in Africa.That hinder any good growth when they are set into effect.

Because this thread is about the broken Africa stereotype

By the way, relating to Gueveras diary statement, I just am in humble admiration as to what Africans from countries like Gana, Nigera, Kenya, Semagal etc etc have brought to the tavble of civilisation interms of culture , language, foods, etc I could never make a ststement like his nor ever understand it
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 13:13:54 Bulanik

B.R. – Your assumptions and presumption is astounding.

Who do you think you are commenting to? Children? Would-be “communists”?

There you are feeling maligned and misunderstood again.
You were attacked?
Did we need your reminding us what this thread is about?
And, praising The Africans this time?

What’d we blacks do without white people like you, B.R. (Not a question.)
*************************************************************************************************

I think the quote about US’s killing policy to black people is simply appalling.
You agree, don’t you – and of course?

I’ve pondered this: can a quotation ring true, regardless of the person who spoke it? And you know what I believe? It can.

However, let’s make this about you now.
Wasn’t it you who said I was ‘inspired’ by Guevara and yet you will not, explain why.

Methinks that you want to say something ‘political’ about me, but you are not sure if you can do that just yet, right?
In the meantime, patriotic defensiveness keeps making you miss the point because you simply have to be right.

I’d prefer if you didn’t patronize me with your whiteness.
And, don’t tell me that I ‘failed’ because I call out your paternalism to a black person like myself.

Now, since you are so into us, tell me something ‘inspiring’ about Senegal? What do you think of Rawlins most recent work?

And try to sound original this time.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 13:51:55 sam

@BR:

“Sam, you do know that some of Guevaras solderscomplained of his racism?

You do know that the Congolease communists kicked Guevara out because he was too radicle in his methods ?

You do know that a bunch of black scholars has condemned Castros Cuba as racist

You do know that Fidel and Guevara executed more poeple than the militarry dictaroships of Cile, Argentin and Brazil put together?”

No I don’t but I do know that he was a real hero for millions who fought against western imperialism in the Third world.

No I don’t but I do know that he was too radical for Castro too.

Who are these black scholars? Name few, thank you.

No I do not because that is a lie. Those three dictatorships killed many more thousands than Castro and his ilk ever did.

The diary you so eagerly quote was written when Guevara was a young amn still looking what to do with his life. At that time he was not a communist nor guerilla, nor anything else than a young middle class kid from Argentina driving around the continent with his friend on motorcycles.

Let me get this very clear to you. I don’t like Che or Castro or soviet or any kind of communism. Why? I lived my whole life few miles from the USSR. I can assure you that I know hell of a lot about USSR than you will ever know. And that includes communism, you know, the real deal, Red Army, red ruskies and all that, not the one you read in the books.

As for Africa, this thread is not about BROKEN Africa per sé but the stereotype of it, the one you so eagerly promote here. If you were alert and understud the post you would realise that in reality there is not that Broken Africa you suscribe for. It is a myth promoted by western propaganda and judging from you, it has worked just fine. There is no lost cintinent raped by communist subversives: that is the CIA vision of it.

You claim that Che Guevara, who only visited Africa, and communists are responsible for the stereotype of Broken Africa. I wonder how you get your head around that. It is the western media which has created that myth. Not communist propaganda. If you look at their own myth, Africa is a place were happy balck people hold hands and sing and dance with Lenin smiling at them, and also a continent raped by the mean american tycoon. That was their myth.

Broken Africa is a western idea of a continent that can not handle itself because of its ow people.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 14:59:22 B. R.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/03/nation/la-na-cuba-blacks3-2010jan03
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:02:37 B. R.

I hate making you look bad, Sam because I like your heart is in the right place

Would you like me to destroy your other arguments ?

30,000 people were eliminated by Argentina military dictators, 3,000 in Chile, less than 1000 in Brazil

60,000 were executed in Cuba

Ill be happy to referance it, yes you know more about the red army and I know more about you about what happened in South America
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:11:36 B. R.

Sam , did you read what I said ? You are putting words in my mouth. These conflicts and the exploiting of Africa that we have all talked about, is one of the reasons for the broken Africa stereotype and I said that right above, are you reading ?

Bulanik, I wrote that you were “inspired” to defend Guevara’s words inspite of seeing he is a blatent racist ( dont buy your excuse, Sam).

You are getting on your motorbike and spinning wheels knocking up a lot of dust to try to point out to everyone that I am for some reason not qualified to post about these things or I might be a racist.You are doing that on the other thread…go right ahead, maybe after spinning your wheels enough and kick up enough dust you might find something that sticks…but you are going to have a lot of dust and smoke in your eyes
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:22:19 Bulanik

B.R. Now I have smoke in my eyes from your paternalistic smokescreen.LOL.

The quote is spot on about the US. Deal with it you can not.

I am still waiting for what the hell you mean by ‘inspired’… so where is it?

I’m also curious to read your CONTRIBUTION on a vision Africa Restored instead of Broken. What about Senegal?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:27:48 B. R.

Sam , quote quote from wikipedia :

According to various reports and investigations 1,200–3,200 people were killed, up to 80,000 were interned, and up to 30,000 were tortured by his regime including women and children.[6][7][8] Under the influence of the free market-oriented
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:47:54 Bulanik

How come we are in South America? What about Africa and Africans?

What about the black scholars’ responses?
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 15:58:07 B. R.

Bulanik, excuse me, Ive been acused of lies by Sam, do I have any right to prove he is dead wrong….about “inspiration” ive answered twice

Sam here is Brazil “According to a government-sponsored truth and reconciliation commission in 2007, by the end of the 21 years of dictatorship there were 339 documented cases of government-sponsored political assassinations or disappearances. More were interrogated, tortured, and jailed ”

The point we are making about Africans and how this relates to all this, Guevara, represents , along with the colonisers, the USA cold war polocies etc, the real reasons Africa had conflicts that gave people stereotypes of Africa is all conflicts and violence…

(gees Sam, millions of people voted for Bush also, whta does tht tell you? Millions and millions of people can make wrongt choices, millions and millions of people hate them both alsoe
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 16:19:26 Bulanik

B.R.

You’ve said re Guevara “is the kind of white man you…{i} look to for inspiration.”

Do you think I cannot read by myself, B.R.?

I asked you to tell me clearly why/which way I am ‘inspired’ by Che Guevara because I believe that his quotation was insightful about US policy to wards the killing of black people.

How am I ‘inspired’ by this white man, Che Guevara? Do you have any idea what this sounds like?
(Perhaps you do, and fancy yourself as an ‘instructor’ in these things.)

You’ve explained nothing, only repeated yourself, telling me that I am ‘inspired’ —- as if you’re fooling anyone into being convinced by you that I’m an enamoured believer in Guevara’s politics because his quotation ain’t flattering to your country.

Again, how and which way am I inspired by Che Guevara?
Please give me examples. Please give me an explanation.

If you can’t, then I’ll know you aren’t here because you’re serious.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 16:19:39 B. R.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War Argentina ,statistics right at the top

Yeah its wikipedia, but, they fall into the statistics Ive seen many times….they could vary , Ive seen more in some reports

check out this history of how many times Cuba has been involved in Africa for dirty wars that also had involvement by the USA and other out of Africa powers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Cuba

again, all this really points out how responsible outside forces were at conflicting inside Africa and creating impresions world wide that Africa is nothing but conflicts
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 16:23:06 B. R.

You are looking way more into the word “inspired” than I ever intended…

Let me state , I absolutly dont think you or Sam are communists or followers of Che Guevara
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 16:32:28 Linda

“BR
Sorry , Linda, Guevara’s racsim is blatent in his statement about Africans no matter what he states about Americans
If that is the kind of white man you think is fine to look to for inspiration..becaue he can mouth something about the USA who was his sworn enemy, who would like to find their weakness ?”

Linda says,

I truly hold no white man up as an inspiration, least of all Che Guevara…

I am not sure at what point he made his statement about “blacks being indolent and frivolous” (before or after Congo) but it doesn’t matter…

he was dedicated to his cause and he viewed the Congo as another frontier to conquer (just like European adventurers before him) ….he was also told by the Egyptians not to go to the Congo and interfere, but he did it anyway and like his predecessors before him, he thought he could “tame the natives”..he lost that bet.

“BR But fundimentaly he looks down on Africans ?”

Linda says,

Guevara was no different than the average “white” north American or South American, who thinks they are better than anyone with dark skin.

the average person doesn’t reveal their true feelings when it comes to race anyway.

thanks to the internet, my white coworker who sits next to me all day, can safely go onto a blog forum and call black people the N-word, while telling me about her day and her family (true story)

I put up Guevara’s quote about “race in America” as a balance to the previous quote and as you stated, megalomaniacs (pick any country with money and an agenda with military might to back it up) tend to talk out of both sides of their mouths to further their causes….
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 16:40:58 Bulanik

B.R.
“Let me state , I absolutly dont think you or Sam are communists or followers of Che Guevara.”

Well, at last, after a bloody long wait.

If you make yourself clear, show a little respect for another person’s reading ability + independence of mind – you won’t have to keep on telling anyone that they read “too much” into what you say.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 17:00:40 Dahoman X

@ Bulanik

I re-read my previous post and your subsequent reply, and I believe we may have a misunderstanding.

IMHO, I think one doesn’t have to be African oneself to appreciate the seriousness, the complexities, beauty and supreme importance of Africa’s development by Africans.

I did not imply anything like that.
Quite the contrary: I like how your posts develop actual analysis and it’s obvious that, unlike many commenters, you go through the trouble of researching the issues that you write about.
My Aminata Traore reference was just to bring to your attention a woman whose thoughts on development go in the sense of your own reflection.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 17:06:11 Bulanik

@Dahoman X – I was wondering about that, and after I posted it, I thought that my inference must have sounded like that. My mistake.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 17:13:54 B. R.

Bulanic , I am sorry it took me this long to understand what you needed to hear ….my bad…I hope Im not a person who acuses anyone of being commies for making intelligent statements

Sam is my man also,

Linda, I agree, Guevera is the same as any other white man going into Africa and superimpose his values
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 18:15:38 Bulanik

Thank you, B.R.
on Thu 29 Mar 2012 at 19:26:10 B. R.

Bulanik…again I misspelled your name, my error , I am a person who is paid well for a skill I am good at but I am not college educated so I am always making spelling errors

I have followed your posts and I know you are a very articulate informed young lady…

We are just sharing opinions , right ? We may disagree on other things also but at least I want you to know I have a fundimental respect for you and where you are coming from
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 11:59:02 Bulanik

Matari said:

-Happy

-Prosperous

-Thriving

Three existential things the western media is most likely NOT to televise re Africa.

I was looking at the photo at the top of this post, and it made me recall others I have seen that stir sorrow. Photos like these are sometimes (usually) staged as part of the image=control of Africans.

Does this mean the work of ‘re-humanizing’ Africans in the Western mindset is absolutely visual?

I recall a previous discussion on this blogsite touching on a documentary special about young Native Americans on a miserable reservation.
I remember the way the *Hopelessness* stereotype was packaged for consumption.

These 2 videos seemed to have been made as a counter-balance of that stale image of hopelessness. Something more honest than The Single Story of a one-dimensional image:

Let’s not forget the stereotype of the “stoic Indian”

OMG! Smiling Native Americans. Oxymoron alert!

But doesn’t this show the leveling potential of new technologies?
I think Africans, more and more, will take control of the visual image of the Continent.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 12:18:55 sam

@bulanik:

Images are power, that is why the System uses them more and more with more and more sophistication. Africa and africans in the images are part of that use of power trough images and visual means.

Africans are smiling and happy only when a white celebrity comes to their village and hands out some relief. Then they dance and clap their hands and sing their tribal songs for the great white saviour. During other times they are just trying to survive famine, wars, mass murders, genocides, aids, flies in their eyes, tuberculosis, crockodiles and hippos, elephants on rampage, robbers, drunken men in armed gangs looting villages at random, warriors from the neighbouring tribe, islamic jihadists, mercenaries paid by angry arabs, couple Al Qaida guys here and there, dictators and strongmen, unhealthy food full of flies and maggots, dirty water, cholera, malaria, huts built from cow manure, smoking stoves and broken sandals. That is, if you believe what you see in western media.

That is why women today see few hundred photoshopped unrealistic images of the woman in magazines, commercials and practically everywhere, every day. Hundred years ago average woman saw perhaps a 100 women during her lifetime, more if she lived in a city but at most few thousand. Today, if you are living in a big city and heavy user of the media, you will see few thousand of such images a day. Why? To make you feel frustrated of yourself so that would trigger a shopping spree. US marketeers found this out already in 1940′s.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 13:53:58 Bulanik

@sam

Images are power.
I experimented with Africa stereotype myself: I thought of an African city – the first one to pop into my head was Nairobi. I googled it up.

The name, in Maasai, translates into ”the place of cool waters” and it is popularly known as “Green City in the Sun”, so says Wiki.
Then I googled “Nairobi pictures” and got a range of photos showing savannah, leopards, Maasi, crocodiles, rhino, and few photos of people, such as school children clapping their hands, helpers on a wildlife preserve, and buildings in the city, roads lit up, etc.

After that, I googled Sydney, and got this – a skyline including Sydney Opera House:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Sydney_skyline_at_dusk_-_Dec_2008.jpg/800px-Sydney_skyline_at_dusk_-_Dec_2008.jpg

Who would have thought that Nairobi is: the 12th largest city on the continent of Africa with a population of over 3 million in the city and its surrounding suburbs. It is the capital of Kenya and an economic, political, and financial hub in the region?

This is actually “Nairobi” on the google map:
http://static.thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2011/05/212.jpg

I think I understand, in this context, that a big selling point of Nairobi is that there is a wildlife park there, and that marketing is vital for attracting tourists.
But is the Serengeti Nairobi’s starting point?
Isn’t that misleading information, to say the least?

The city of Nairobi and bustling economy has all but been erased in the process of image-making. Earlier we looked at African city skyscrapers, slums and the urbanized poor in African cities. These problems are real, and glossing over them is no use, and that is not my point:
My point is that the idea of Nairobi as a “bustling, successful economy” is no less fanciful than the portrayal of it as a wildlife preserve, and that this continuing image of the wild and exotic Africa is no less manufactured.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 14:24:09 Bulanik

@sam

This image-manufacturing issue reminds me of the images of Africa in the ‘No.1 Ladies Detective Agency’ series (book and tv show).
I am not referring to the characterizations or story-lines of the series.

If I recall correctly, the stories are set in Gaborone, in Botswana. And Gaborone, according to Wiki, looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaborone_Montage.png

But, didn’t the series itself show “Africa” as more rural, like this:
http://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles2/1467478/article_images/no1ladies03.jpg

And, doesn’t the book cover also depict the landscape and lifestyle as this?

THE NO. 1 LADIES' DETECTIVE AGENCY [The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency ] BY McCall Smith, Alexander(Author)Compact Disc 01-Apr-2003
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 14:55:45 Bulanik

@sam

The other thing that comes up frequently in this image of “Africa” is the way Sub-Saharan Africa and Sub-Saharan African is used.

We know what this really means, don’t we? It means black people. Not the lighter-skinned Arabs (with civilization, Egypt, etc).

To me, SUB-anything is inferior, and Sub-Saharan African is codeword that connotes:
*sub-human*
*sub-standard*
and all other ’subs’ that Africa is associated with. It only serves the white supremacist need to validate their preconceptions, whilst sounding ‘neutral’ and geographically accurate. (LOL)

I am not sure if I think positively of “Black” Africa, in the context of the Broken stereotype either. Is Sahel a true description of the region south of the Sahara?
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 15:24:09 abagond

@ Bulanik

I did that same sort of Google experiment with Luanda. If you search CNN or the New York Times for images of Luanda, the first pictures that come up are those of its slums. If you search the whole Internet, the first pictures that come up are beautiful pictures of the centre city:

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/how-backward-is-africa/
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 15:38:58 abagond

@ Bulanik

The term “sub-Saharan Africa” makes my skin crawl. I should probably do a post on it.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 15:39:04 Bulanik

@abagond

Okay! You covered that subject before I knew about your blog.
Very interesting. Thank you.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 15:42:44 Bulanik

@abagond

“Sub-Saharan Africa” has got to go!

Every time I have seen “ssAfrica” used recently on threads, it stinks of inferiority and preening white superiority.

I am don’t know if “Sahel” is the right word. But there has to be better language and better meanings.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 15:45:26 B. R.

Absolutly correct, people react to image….

Im a person who has never been to Africa, and, it is one of those dreams I have…I would love to know where some countries that have powerful drum and dance cultures, have folklorico national drum dance companies , and be able to stay at a nice hotel…and if its on a beach that has some small waves to swimn in….

Any reccomdations from people who live there or know ?

Actualy, Bulanik, you asked me who I dig from Senegal…I love the drum record by Dou Dou Rose, you can hear the roots of Cuban mambo gua gua co, and samba, and funk and jazz…I was into those AFrican folkways records from a long time ago, Fon Ton Fron drumming, Congo ( I have a record now I listen to), Masai, Kikuyu, Gana drumming, Nigeria

You know, Im one of those people who believe very deeply in the genius of sub Sahara Africa, and in that context, I really do beleive you can look there as the place that came certain concepts of culture, music and dance that have a similar developement, the same way as we recognise Europe classical music , it comes from various countries but in a similar context. And those concepts have affected the world in a big way
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 16:19:40 Herneith

Try talking to people from the various countries in Africa. You will get myriad information about politics, societies etc. Many would be surprised at the disparities between what they tell you and what the white media tells you. I am speaking in general, society at large, not anyone in particular, therein lies the problem. Sure some of these countries have problems in varying degrees but what country doesn’t? For example; if you are homeless and starving in North America, that makes that society morally bankrupt as it is put forward as a 1st world country(ies). What is their excuse? They should apply all this charitable work to their own country and clean up their own back yards instead of fomenting propaganda against other countries. But then again they would have to admit their wickedness towards their fellow countrymen both currently and historically. I think they concentrate on these countries and their travails to show that blacks inferiority, this appears to be on a continuum when taken in its’ totality, via media etc. Fools like these race realist have taken to using these images to prove blacks inability to run things and clinging to their white privileges. If I were paranoid, I would think there was a conspiracy of a sort to this end. I don’t credit them with enough intelligence for this, they take a ‘Let the chips fall where they may’ approach.
on Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 21:29:44 B. R.

Good point, Herneith

Its hard to find images of Africans that gets into their humanity, and, the value of their culture. Its all suffering and they are in the distance.

It starts becoming ammunition for what ever agenda wants to use it.

I remember seeing a really off the radar documentary of a tribe from northern Uganda, the part that was more affected by violence, with some of the children had been child solders and others had lost loved ones.

The young kids were getting ready to go down to a big city to compete in a cultural music and dance festival. It showed the teachers come in and demonstrate the dances and musics, and, the kids had seperate interviews about their experiances. They went down to the competition and you could see that through their participation and victory in two of the catagories , a tremendous pride and emotion. One girl , who seemed to have the saddest look, came all alive while dancing with the most incredible expresion of joy on her face, she later said when she is dancing, she forgets all her problems…and the drumming and dancing was wonderful

It was just a moving documentary that got deeper into these peoples humanity and struglle and joy through artistic expresion…I was floored…and you just dont get to see that kind of stuff on tv that often
on Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 00:57:52 B. R.

Enough !! Its over, this phony charade about intelligence tests that are controversial anyway belongs in the trash. They dont cover real ways to survice in life like intuition and improvisation. Bell curves, IQ exames, they are useless in judging real genius.

There is more black American genius at the highest level in the world you can find in this youtube , than you could shake a stick at the whole ivy league. These gentleman have raised the bar in what they do to an unbeleivable hight and their work will be studied in 100 years as the defining thinkers of this time , 1965…

I cant listen anymore to white insecure no nothings who dont know how to difine real genius if it was sitting on their nose .

Any one who question black American intelligence or genius, just tell me what these gentlemen are doing here if you can
on Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 02:01:14 B. R.

Sorry, posted this on the wrong thread, my apologies
on Mon 2 Apr 2012 at 01:18:58 B. R.

Actualy, Im going to tie this in with this thread…with out the cultural concepts that came from certain areas of Africa, this wouldnt have existed….

And, these concepts are never really addressed or talked about with any depth. With any notion how much they have dominated much of the worlds popular music. Any where there is the African diaspora, there are these concepts that entered the popular musics of where African slaves were brought, and absolutly took over the type of beat and dance that each of the countries turned into their popular grooves and dance crazes , of course mixing with the culture of each area they arrived at.

and, the “broken Africa stereo type” has totaly buried any real look at these incredible concepts that have shaped cultures in various places

The humanity and culture are ovelooked to focus more on misery , death and destruction.
on Mon 2 Apr 2012 at 01:24:43 B. R.

All you hear about is death and destruction in the Congo

Ive got an incredible record of folklorico music from the Congo.

Did you know they have a drum that stretches one gut over the bottom head, so the drum buzzes as you hit it….it is the first snare drum. I thought snare drum concepts came from Europe….wrong

When I think of Congo, I think of these musicians and the concepts they are dealing with, I see their humanity and creativity and artistic expression. These wars and conflicts dont define the people there, the culture and art defines them
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 08:15:33 Anna

Another side-effect of the stereotype.
- If you happen to be African, live in a Western country, are articulate, educated, has travelled a lot i.e. don’t correspond to most stereotypes people have of African people, it either mean your parents were diplomats or are corrupt politicians who feed off the poorest of their country.
- You can’t and don’t know much about your history, your culture, your continent because let’s face it, you’re too famished to think about knowledge. African people cannot write plausible and objective facts about themselves: they don’t even have schools.
- If you happen to speak any European languages without the (awful and generic) African accent, it means you went to a private French, Belgium, American or British school in your country
- All African people have protuberant abdomen (a Chinese friend from Mauritius told me that after stressing on the fact that she isn’t African – I asked her why her country was a member of the African Union then)
- Do you live with the lions or in the trees? (not kidding, I was asked this question a couple of times, years ago in France – Same thing happened to my Malagasy friend from Indian descent and another West African friend)
- If you have a light skin, it means you must have had a white or an Arab ancestor.
- “Hakuna Matata! Do you speak swahili?” (Huge eyeroll)

I am not saying that Africa isn’t poor. It is indeed and a lot remains to do, first of all by assuring food security. Yet, Africa isn’t only the dying and begging kids, the dishevelled women, the desert, the armed conflicts and…. the safaris.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 11:20:54 sam

@bulanik:

I think Sahel is the area on the southern edge of the Sahara proper. I think it does not cover more than that.

As for sub-Saharan Africa, the funny thing is that originally it was geographical term: it described the difference between the Sahara region and area north of Sahara (sub tropics) and the areas south of them. the savannah etc., the climate etc.

BUT what has happened is that racists have hijacked this term too as a cultural and racial divide. This is not an accident. This idea, like others such, come from few racist think tanks which replace the meaning of a word and then begin to use it as their own. This is an old trick used by several ideologies in the past, like the Nazis or communists.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 12:10:34 Bulanik

@sam

I realize what you say about what it description, but as a descriptor it has been contaminated, contaminated. It’s not just the usage of ssAfrica! It’s what it has come to mean when we hear “sub”, it makes a lot of people cringe and shudder. It has become a word to mean the inferior people of the Continent, the backward and part of the Continent where the darker savage inhabitants live, etc. And it’s everywhere now. It’s just a polite way of saying nasty racist things. Like the word “Nordic”, but in different way.

If Sahel is not, then what about South Saharan Nations/Africa? or The African South?
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 13:29:59 Dahoman X

what has happened is that racists have hijacked this term too as a cultural and racial divide. This is not an accident.

I believe it dates back to the colonial era. Only then did the Sahara (which historically has always been a crossroad) become this somewhat airtight frontier between “white” and “black” Africa.
Notice how this frontier conveniently ceased to exist every time the colonizer summoned the infamous “arab influences” to explain any sign of “civilization” observed in the southern part of the continent…
Go figure.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 14:38:03 sam

@bulanik:

I just talk about Africa and for me that covers anything south of Mediterannean. From Morocco to Capetown.

@dahoman X:

I think the racist sub Saharan Africa is quite recent term. I am not certain though.

In colonial times they used very handy term the Darkest Africa. Thus they implied an area whithout any light=intelligence and culture=civilization and also the dark skinned inhabitants. Thus white (light) people were bringing light o the darkness when they conquered it. Nice ideological twist.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 14:47:17 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

What made Africa split into non Black Africa, North Africa and land south of the Sahara is Black Africa?. So strange. I just don’t get that at all because I usually think of Africa as an continent where Blacks descended from like how Caucasians descended from Europe.
@Abagond
Yeah the words Sub Saharan Africa makes my skin crawl as well because the term doesn’t make sense to me at all. What in the world is that term supposed to mean except for the fact that it is the south of the Sahara deser?
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 15:17:05 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@Sam
I agree with you. Yes, Africa is anthing that is south of the Mediterannean to Capetown is Africa to me as well. Glad someone reads my mind.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 15:41:22 sam

@adeen:

All people come from Africa. That is the scientifical fact. The present day europeans are decendants of the people who came from Africa tens of thousands of years ago. So there is no humanbeing who has originated elsewhere. If one wants to be a bit cheeky one can say: biologically we are all Africans. That is also the one thing racists try to hide and do their best to discredit. But that is a fact. So there are no caucasians at all. There is only one humanrace on this planet.

Gentically you and I are more closer than a guy from Mali is to a guy from Mozambique. There are bigger genetical differences inside Africa than in all the rest of the world. That is because the rest of us are the decendants from those who left Africa tens of thousands of years ago.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 15:48:39 Dahoman X

@ Sam

In colonial times they used very handy term the Darkest Africa. Thus they implied an area whithout any light=intelligence and culture=civilization and also the dark skinned inhabitants. Thus white (light) people were bringing light o the darkness when they conquered it.

Yeah, Africa is often referred as “the dark continent”. All those meanings are implied here.
Joseph Conrad’s title “Heart of Darkness”, literally the tale of a journey to the heart of Africa, also comes to mind.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 22:14:02 sam

@dahoman x:

Yes and it is excellent book. And look who is the worst lunatic of them all: white colonel Kurtz. So the heart of darkness is in actuality inside the white mans head: “Horror, the horror!”

I have no knowledge of this but I always suspected that Condrad knew something about Leopolds Congo.
on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 22:38:23 Bulanik

Sam, Dahoman, but didn’t Conrad reach Congo in his travels? By steamboat? This must have been around 1890s or so.
on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 06:12:48 sam

@bulanik:

I do not know if he ever visited Congo himself. In the book the structure is three dimensional: steamboat travel along the Thames “up the river into the heart of darkness”, in the narrative on a steamboat along the Congo River “into to the heart of darkness” and in the minds of the carachters “into the heart of darkness”.

If he did visit Belgian Congo we know where he got his nightmarish storyline but if he did not, he obviously knew something about what was going on in there.
on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 07:47:37 Dahoman X

According to the wikipedia page Conrad did visit Congo:

Eight and a half years before writing the book, Conrad had gone to serve as the captain of a Congo steamer. On arriving in the Congo, he found his steamer damaged and under repair. He became sick and returned to Europe before serving as captain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness
on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 08:18:45 Dahoman X

A good read: An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”, by Chinua Achebe.
http://kirbyk.net/hod/image.of.africa.html
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 09:02:37 sam

@dahoman x:

Thanks for the info!
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 10:12:26 satanforce

The character Blade is also another interesting one, the obvious imagery being the metaphor of whiteness as an acquired infection.

I always imagined that Bladewas about class struggle – the idea of a black guy and a redneck hick taking on and defeating the decadent aristo/plutocratic vampires. Especially now, what with megabanks being bloodsucking parasites and all
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 10:16:56 satanforce

Abagond already posted about Achebe’s response to Conrad
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 10:20:41 Bulanik

@satanforce
Class struggle?
Nah.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 11:43:04 B. R.

There is a distinct cultural differance between sub Sahara Africa and North Africa.Some one in here had an argument with me a long time ago, I was telling him there is a distinctive cultural way that drums are played and the dances are done , that seperate sub Sahara Africa from North Africa. I proceeded to bring in youtubes from various areas of sub Sahara Africa with very similar concepts in drumming and dancing. Let me make it clear that Im absolutly not saying all the drumming and dancing are the same. Its the basic pollyrhythmic concepts that are the same. The same way we can say Europe evolved harmony and classical music symphonies even though they are from differant countries that speak differant languages but Europe is where they evolved certain harmonic concepts. In that context you can say sub Sahara Africa evolved certain musical concepts.Ill be happy to bring in those youtubes again if anyone has any doubt that you cant quantify certain concepts of culture from sub Sahar Africa
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 11:54:11 B. R.

Recently Ive been listening to a cd from Dudu Rose from Senegal. The drumming concepts are distinctive and recognisable. I have a record from the Congo also. It has very distintive charactoristics but the pollyrhythmic call responce is the same as Senegal. I saw an in depth docu of Uganda recently and some children preparing for a music fest with their drumming and dancing, distinct beats and dances but same concepts as the Congo and Senegal. I have youtubes of the same concepts from kids playing in Kenya, I think they are Kikuyu, you can look at Watusi cerimonies, Zulu cerimonies, I can go on and on and bring in examples. Besides Gnawa in Moroco, Id like to see some North African drumming and dancing that uses these same kind of pollyrhythmic , call responce, pelvic thrust, fast shuffle steps. Im sure they exist, but, Im not aware of them, I dont think north Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Moroco except for Gnawa, have those concepts as the dominant factor in their musical culture. Maybe Sudan and Ethiopia have some forms of the drumming, for sure you can really hear mixtures of both the Arab concepts and the sub Sahara drum dance concepts.

If someone can bring in a youtube to educate me , it would be welcome
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 11:59:05 B. R.

As equaly frightening as outsiders thinking sub Sahara Africa is some horrible place compared to North Africa, would be denying the genius that is from the culture of sub Sahara Africa. That is extremly important to recognise the cultural gifts to the world that black sub Sahara Africa has been responsible for

To deny this genius fits right in with the broken Africa sterotype, especialy the broken black Africa stereotype
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:13:17 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@B.R.
I agree. And why did they separate ”North Africa” from Sub Saharan Africa when both places are in Africa? If all the Blacks came from Sub Saharan Africa, how come supermodel Iman is from Somalia and Somalia is NOT in ”Sub Saharan Africa”. Iman is Black! Somalia is in North Central Africa. That Sub Saharan crap that is perpentrated in History and Geography is a lie. I think they split Africa in two to discredit Africa’s role in civilization and History.
No wonder Egypt is in ”North Africa”, because they weren’t ”Blacks” and couldn’t have possibly have built such an empire! I believe some of the Pharoahs were Black, yes but this foolishness has to stop. Blacks have contributed much to civilization and inventions as much as East Indians, Chinese, Europeans and others.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:32:37 B. R.

Adeen, Im in full agreement about any attemt to paint any part of Africa as less than or more backwards. And, I think the cultrual aspects Im talking aboiut dont address color in the sence that North Africa has a wide range of color.

I want to make it clear that I am addressing cultural concepts that most certainly came out of black Africans who have differant culturual concepts from Arabs that took over North Africa

And these cultural concepts are distinctive and can be quantified.

In North Africa, I suggest that there is a mixture of these concepts but the Arab concepts are more in effect in North Africa

Any body who knows a little bit about the various drum/dance concepts that dominate the Afro diasporic cultures throughout the Americas, can recognise the roots of those grooves right away in various sub Saharan drum dance cultures and you cant do that with North African musics

Or , please demonstrate it, because I can demonstrate with authority what Im talking about
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:43:45 B. R.

this is differant from what I will bring in belowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMHucmq7yBE
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:45:28 B. R.

il try to linc the north African style again
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:54:42 B. R.

this is differanthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CozpRbD5sms
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 12:55:35 B. R.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 13:00:32 B. R.

I mean anyone on here can hear the differance, right?

Its not color, its culture…

Also Im not sure about how one minute we are so firm that Africa is a continent of many countries and cultures and the next oh but its all one Africa…

I mean great about ideaologicy thought out intellectual arguments to counter stereotypes and western ignorance about real Africa, but please dont sweep in distnintive cutltrural differances that actualy point out to a genius of cultural value that is quantifiable and distinct from anythng else in the world
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 13:07:12 B. R.

here is the gnawa from moroco that I said is more from a groove stanpoint. It is the exception of North Africa

It is obvious that in North Africa because of the Arab conquest that the Arab concepts of music are going to dominate, like I said this is somewhat of a an exception, but you sure can hear a differance from the youtube avove
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 16:46:47 B. R.

As I said, Morroco is the country in North Africa that has good examples of the drum principles that come from the south. You have to look at how the dances hook up with the drums to really see the differance with the Morrocon concepts versus say concept you might find in Nigeria. Of course influences were going back and forth. Swahili had Arab influcence. Nigeria has some of the population muslim.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 16:52:59 B. R.

But this what what I consider a more North African feel
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 17:02:22 teddy1975

Well, the Sahara was a greater barrier than the Mediterranean Sea, which with ships and all was rather a way things could be transported, even the fauna and flora of Super-Saharan Africa have more in common with southern Europe than with Sub-Saharan Africa. The Islamic conquest really changed the way Europeans saw (North) Africans. Before that, that part of Africa was not seen as intrinsically different from the European parts and islands of the Mediterranean.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 17:06:02 B. R.

Here is the differace
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 17:22:45 B. R.

Absolutly, Teddy, that is my point, there are concepts of life and how to aproach life that come from the middle of Africa down towards the south. Was it the Bantu migration ? I dont know or really think so, I think some of these drum dance concpets go back a long long time.

And, I think the fact that you can see the power in the Afro diasporic concepts, and how they absoutly dominate any country that brought slaves from the culture above, the Mali drumming, for example.

It is a power, a genius, it shouldnt be hidden behind other cultures like the Arab cultures, and the mixtures of those concepts,those are fantastic also, really fantastic. But these principles of life , and living, filtered sometimes through drumming /dancing, the inclination to use these drums and dances to turn off the thinking brain and get in touch with the intuition, need to be examined on their own terms for exacty what they represent and represent alone.

Especialy in light of scientific discoveries that prove that is what is happening in our everyday life anyway

It is that reason that I say there are instances that we can look at culture from sub Sahara Africa…I totaly agree that any point of veiw that choose to look at sub Sahara Africa as sub or worse off, or equal to misery is ridiculas. And again, like in the Congo, if you really begin to understand the humanity of the people, the contriburion their culture has made on the world, those stereotypes couldnt kick in

We have to make the culture as a focal part of what is incredible about all of Africa
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 17:28:09 B. R.

Ok all of those sentances are not understandable:

And, I think the fact that you can see the power in the Afro diasporic concepts, and how they absoutly dominate any country that brought slaves from the culture above, the Mali drumming, for example (should continue on to say ) is a tremendous example of that power and genuius. Look how they groove the beat into the ground .

I
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 19:59:21 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

@B.R.
I get it now. I am sick of the false sterotypes about Africa and I really want to know the truth about Africa.
on Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 22:04:42 Dahoman X

@ satanforce

Abagond already posted about Achebe’s response to Conrad

Abagond actually commented Achebe’s criticism of Conrad, but his post did not include a link to Achebe’s original article which, IMHO, is pertinent to the present thread. This article also further explores the 2 allegories mentioned by Sam: the one regarding the parallel Thames/Congo, and the one about the darkness inside Kurtz’ (the White man’s) heart.

@ Adeen
Somalia is located in East Africa and is considered part of sub Saharan Africa.

@ B.R.
For some weird reason, you seem to infer from my post that:
1) I believe there is no difference between Northern and Southern Africa
2) I imply some kind of inferiority of the Southern part
3) I’m trying to hide it by stressing the “Arab” influence
If you actually read this in my comment, please re-read it. It is not what I wrote.
Northern Africa and Southern Africa have their own identities (notice the plural. None is monolithic). Yes, the Northern part, while very diverse, is culturally close to the Arabic Peninsula and the Middle East. I don’t deny that.

If you take a plane from Tunis to Lagos you will be shocked by the contrast and will feel like you stepped from a world to another.

But if you, say, travel by caravan from Tunis on the Mediterranean Sea to Lagos in the Gulf of Benin, you will have a very different experience. The transition will feel very progressive and you won’t be able to define a clear cut frontier between these two parts of the continent.

That’s because, contrary to what people commonly believe (see teddy1975′s post above) the people living along both banks of the Sahara have always interacted and influenced each other. They have never let the Sahara become a barrier. Quite the contrary, actually: during the past millennium it has been the place of the most dynamical trade routes of the continent, and of racial and cultural melting-pot.
And when I say they have interacted, when I say melting-pot, I don’t imply that it has always been kumbaya love between North Africa and Southern Africa, or between so-called “white” and “black” Africans (see the racist exactions currently going on in “liberated” Libya, for instance).

Regarding the polyrhythmic concepts.
I’ll have to trust your expertise on this, as I’m utterly illiterate in the matter.
I can appreciate good music though. I can’t really see your YouTube videos (slow connection here), but I recognize some names. Beside you cited Doudou Ndiaye Rose. Good pick.
on Tue 17 Jul 2012 at 01:46:31 Anomymous

I have more hope for Africa, than Haiti. However one of the main problem is the government and lack of unity, and initiatives. Africans are very divided. They are still too tribal (IMHO). Then there is the never ending political unrest etc….

If the Africans leaders were serious and there wasn’t all this division going on,then it would move forward in a faster fashion.
on Thu 10 Jan 2013 at 06:25:38 munu aka Bantu

I want to put my two cents to counter stereotypes about Africa in general and a few guidelines about how to look at African affairs:

1. As somebody said already, most stereotypes carry some truth with them; the question is, oft, of how can we expurgate them of implicit falsehoods; for example it’s truth that African governments are, in most cases, corrupt, but a) not all of them (I bet that the Botswana Government is one of the world’s most clean in that regard!) and the rest are corrupt in different degrees; b) outside the continent we find also many corrupt governments (in Latin America, South Asia or Eastern Europe, for example) and, therefore it’s false to draw the conclusion that corruption is kind of an African trademark alone;

2. Africa is a very diverse continent as Abagond has pointed out already (possibly the most diverse of them all!); there are many different countries there, and each of them is an unique “human experiment” by itself; you have different ancient histories from different places (from Yoruba kingdoms in one corner to Zulu warriors in another, and many other different narratives in between); you had different colonial powers in different places (English, Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, Belgian, etc) with different impacts (the different “official“ – European – languages” are a lasting testimony of that); you had different colonial settlements in different places (from none or few European settlers in places like Ethiopia, Somalia or Cameron to hundreds of thousands or millions in most Southern Africa countries and Algeria) and therefore you should expect different degrees of “European acculturation” in those places (in Maseru, Lesotho you will find that most native Africans communicate between themselves in a local African idiom most of the time, but in Maputo or Luanda people opt to use Portuguese as their “lingua franca”)

3. The diversity of situations in Africa is also clear in terms of economic development; from small economies as in the Sao Tome e Principe islands to the relatively highly developed economy and infrastructure as in the Republic of South Africa, which consumes more energy per year than highly industrialized countries like Netherlands or Sweden, you find a large spectrum of all different levels of economic development; a curious fact about the perception of long term economic prospects of Africa is that a few years ago the keyword was “afro pessimism” but now some economists start to look at Africa as the next large emerging market after China and India and they cite the present high grow rates in many African countries as an early indication of that; a more sober and balanced view would be to look at African economies as “developing economies” meaning that they are “yet to mature organic systems” that appear now in a yet relatively young phase of their development; as with humans, adulthood will surely follow the young age, but the journey from one point to the other will be a zigzag of advances and setbacks; so it’s life!

4. Diversity is also to be found in the level of economic development inside each African country; you have the striking divide between the urban (more developed and westernized) and the rural (less developed and more traditional); urban settlements show also a divide between their more developed center and their less developed periphery (shanty towns); there are also oft regional differences (for example the southern part of Mozambique is more developed than the northern part; the same can be said about Nigeria); these features characterize all developing countries including the ones in South America and Asia.

5. Each African country is also a diverse place as a consequence of recent history; the borders of most African states – defined by European powers at the begin of the 20th century – encompass a huge variety of ethnic groups (the so called “tribes”); this is sometimes the cause of internal strife and political instability but when properly managed is the foundation upon which a very rich cultural heritage can develop; one of the functions of the state in Africa is to build the nation from the amalgamation of those diverse groups, contrary to 19th century European states which were, for the most part, mono-ethnic; there are, also, some African mono-ethnic states such as Botswana, Lesotho or Swaziland; this kind of diversity implies that most Africans speak at least 2 languages (one African idiom plus the official European idiom…) and oft even 3 (…plus one more African idiom; this is the case in many urban settings where people from different ethnic backgrounds coexist).

6. Last but not least, the reality of African societies is very fluid and what is true now can change tomorrow behind recognition. This is, in fact, what makes many stereotypes not stand to a close scrutiny: the reality they were supposed to describe oft has already changed when you present them! A few examples: a decade ago it was said that most of Africa (except a few countries) had a very low density of telephone lines and this was seen as a major stumbling block against social and economic progress; today, after a rapid penetration of mobile telephone networks, all over Africa, its citizens are reasonably well connected. It is known that libraries and access to books are in short supply in many African societies and that impacts negatively teaching and learning activities. But as I write, we are witnessing a remarkable grow in Internet access (yet to mature) which can open, in the coming years, the access to universal human knowledge (written documents) to a much wider class of African citizens. More, a decade ago you would see a serene traffic atmosphere in the streets of Maputo and other Mozambican cities. Today, after an explosive grow of the number of car owners, during the past decade, we witness major traffic congestion in their urban settlements which are, therefore, forced to expand their limits outwards and densify their road networks. Twenty years ago we had merely 3 institutions of higher learning in Mozambique enrolling a few thousands students, but now we have more than 30 such institutions which graduate thousands of young (and not so young!) people every year. The same trends you can watch in many other African societies. Many such developments are not an end by themselves, but form a basis for future social and economic progress. Finally, I cannot end without mentioning that all those trends are turning into a reality the emergence of a middle class, in not few African societies, which are gradually overcoming the old motto that says that in Africa either you are (very) rich or (very) poor.

munu aka Bantu
on Thu 10 Jan 2013 at 11:51:34 munu aka Bantu

At the 80’s I was in Germany to study and soon it became clear to me that most people there had little to no knowledge about Africa, and from that fact followed a lot of false assumptions and misunderstandings about the continent and its people.
Stereotypes thrive in an environment of ignorance. In most cases it is less a question of malice, and more of lack of knowledge of the facts. This is my opinion.
Therefore the best antidote against stereotypes is to put the facts before people so that they can review their perceptions by themselves.
At that time, I wrote letters to my brothers asking them to send to me dozens of postcards with diverse motifs reflecting life in my country. And I showed them to my German colleagues. I can bear witness to the fact that many of them became, after that, more curious about my “heimat” and, not few, changed radically their view of it.
Today it should be easy for anyone to do the same at a lower cost: you can search through the Web and collect photos and video-clips which show how things are in your country. Or you can upload your own items to your blog or site. It is that easy! And if we, as Africans, don’t do that, then we must bear some of the guilt for the current situation where most people living outside Africa rate the continent much lower than it should be!
Not only Whites who never visited the continent but also Asians, American and European Blacks, and even first generation children of Africans in the Diaspora share those misconceptions. Even worse: often you discover that Africans themselves don’t question such stereotypes when they think about other African nations, sometimes even neighbor countries.
We should do better about this and surely we can!
on Thu 10 Jan 2013 at 14:01:43 Kwamla

@ munu aka Bantu

Thank you for your informed and much needed perspective on the changing and ever developing continent we label Africa.

I for one enjoyed these far more enlightend contributions.
on Wed 16 Jan 2013 at 03:31:03 munu aka Bantu

Thanks,

Kwamla

To close my contributions on this topic of “broken Africa stereotype” let’s show some images of the continent.
I will put some links to web-pages with pictures and video-clips about two places from the eastern part of Africa: Nairobi and Maputo. The former is well-known in many quarters as a beautiful urban setting in Africa, kind of a mini New York of sorts, and the later is my birthplace and, as an American visitor once put it, “one of the most underrated tourist destinations in Africa”.
Let’s begin with Maputo:
Video-clip (taken in the central areas of the city)
• http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=373682379318444&set=vb.243802292315574&type=2&permPage=1 (this clip gives a glimpse of the cosmopolitan atmosphere in Maputo)
Photos (taken in the centre of the city)
• http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1446879&page=4
on Thu 17 Jan 2013 at 21:49:45 abagond

From munu aka Bantu:

… About Nairobi:

Video-clip (taken in the central areas of the city)

· http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyNztfyen7Q (this clip looks at middle class Nairobi life)
Photos (taken in the centre of the city)
·

· http://www.nairaland.com/51356/nairobi-photos-kenya-beautiful-east

I hope this helps people to review their stereotypes about Africa.
Perhaps, the continent is not “so broken”, after all!
on Thu 17 Jan 2013 at 21:57:22 abagond

Here is the BBC’s top picture of Nairobi on Google Images:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55329000/jpg/_55329190_012891044-1.jpg
on Thu 17 Jan 2013 at 22:44:57 Jorbia

Well,if Africa is so broken, why are so many Europeans living there? Many Europeans who live in Africa for a while never want to leave. If they can, they will go back there to live, even if it’s after they retire.
on Thu 17 Jan 2013 at 22:48:26 Jorbia

My parents have European friends who went to East Africa when they were adults but call Kenya and Tanzania “home.”