Once upon a time there was a poor but beautiful woman. She married the mobster’s son. Oh, she knew how his family got their money. Everyone did: Kidnapping, murder, robbery, taking control of businesses, drug dealing, money laundering and on and on. Mostly on the other side of town.
After she married she lived in a big beautiful house on top of the hill overlooking the town. Her husband bought her diamonds and pearls. He made sure her brothers, sisters and cousins all got work at good pay at the businesses his family took over. Her children went to the best schools.
Then her father-in-law died. Then her husband died. They left her millions. She was now the richest person in town. Her children grew up and became pillars of the community: doctors, lawyers, judges and bankers.
Then one winter’s morning poor people started coming to her door, one after another. It was the strangest thing. One had lost his family business. Another had a kidnapped child that was never found. Another’s father had been murdered. Another was on drugs. And on and on.
And then it hit her: these were the people whose families her father-in-law had robbed and killed and sold drugs to and all the rest to build his fortune, a fortune she now owned. At interest. While her family rose to the top, the other side of town sank into poverty, drugs, crime and prostitution.
So she started making excuses:
- That was long ago. Those were different times. Get over it!
- It has nothing to do with me! I never robbed or killed anyone. I never sold drugs. Why are you looking at me?
- You people rob and kill each other all the time, why are you singling me out?
- Robbing and killing is common to all societies. Give it a rest.
- Someone broke into my house once. They took my grandmother’s necklace that had been in the family for over a hundred years. You people are not the only ones who have suffered. Sniff.
- What about the mobsters in other towns? How come you never talk about them? You act like we were the only ones.
- Your family business was going broke anyway. We made it a success
- The important thing to remember is that my husband turned from a life of crime. On Thanksgivings he went to the other side of town and fed the poor. On Christmas he gave toys to the children. How come you people never talk about that stuff? You just want to hate, to whine and wallow in your victimhood. We need to learn to live in harmony and not be so divisive.
- Give back your business? Are you nuts? It is too late for that.
- Give you money? Impossible. How am I going to buy diamonds and pearls if I give money to every family affected by my father-in-law? I owe you nothing. Get lost.
- You need to kiss up to me and not get so angry.
See also:
- Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks?
- Current arguments about slavery
- How White America got rich
- “But that happens to me too!”
- Teflon Theory of History
- The tone argument
This would have to be the best analogy about race and economics that I have yet read. Except for the reparations twist. That’s not happening. Ever.
iseewhatyoudidthere
love your work….bless you.
Brilliant! Couldn’t have thought of a better analogy!
That’s pretty good.
The reality is less like the “mobster’s daughter-in-law”, and more like some lady who grew up in a village that’s 150 years, 500 miles, and several countries away from the where the mobster came from and who is broke herself.
Stunning allegory!
And for those that can’t get it, take a really long hike elsewhere.
Perfect analogy, yet again…and again, the people who need to get the message are the ones who will deny, discount, derail, etc.
It’s already starting, LMFAO!
sepultura,
What do you think about my suggestion that most of the white people in the US today are not the descendents of the slave owners, nor are they even from the same country of origin?
Minus the time frame and distance. The Department of Agriculture has been ordered to award Black farmers 1 billion USD for discriminatory practices… from the 1980s to the 1990s. Any one who has been reading this blog should know that that’s just the tip of iceberg.
But you’re right about the daughter being broke though.
@no one in particular:
“It has nothing to do with me! I never robbed or killed anyone. I never sold drugs. Why are you looking at me?”
—-
From what I can tell, some white people don’t understand that even though they (or their ancestors) did not participatedin the slave trade, they still benefit from it. Black people, on the other hand, who may not have been slaves themselves, still suffer from the vestiges of that oppression. Not having a family history of participating in slavery or not ever having been a slave, is irrelevant. The same goes for Apartheid, segregation and anything else along those lines.
Someone on another thread mentioned that whenever someone asks about solutions to the problems we discuss here, they hear crickets. IMO, the first steps toward improving the situation (if that’s what’s desired) is for those who are in power, i.e., white people, to acknowledge that white privilege (and power) do exist, and that racism (overt and covert) is still deeply interwoven into the fabric of society. Down-playing history’s role in the current state of affairs or accusing black people of whining, wanting “special treatment,” or playing the race card is not helpful.
I can’t wait to hear what white people have to comment about this.
No matter how you explain it, Abagond, they won’t / can’t see it.
Great story, by the way.
Nom de plume said:
“IMO, the first steps toward improving the situation (if that’s what’s desired) is for those who are in power, i.e., white people, to acknowledge that white privilege (and power) do exist, and that racism (overt and covert) is still deeply interwoven into the fabric of society. Down-playing history’s role in the current state of affairs or accusing black people of whining, wanting “special treatment,” or playing the race card is not helpful.”
I truly believe that it is NOT desired at all.
Why improve a situation that benefits them?
Sounds like a true story that happened, or is happening in real life. A film could be made about this. Reminds me of The Godfather movies.
So typical of oppressors to want their boots licked or a pat on the back after forcibly taking/stealing everything and never feeling any guilt or remorse afterwards.
“Someone broke into my house once. They took my grandmother’s necklace that had been in the family for over a hundred years. You people are not the only ones who have suffered. Sniff.”
Lol… “sniff”.
I think the best one has to be “Give you back your business? Are you nuts?”
I see this a lot of with Native American land. It’s a continuing struggle in Canada where I live. Land that was never ceded, never traded for, never had a treaty arranged for it, where there are not large amounts of non-Natives living on it.
Never mind that the treaties the Canadian government wrote often weren’t worth the paper they were printed on, and that most of the treaties detailing land “signed” away by Natives are probably null and void due to the government’s chronic treaty violations. People want the land. Companies want the land. It’s not enough to destroy the environment in the rest of the country., Some companies, and some small groups of people want the land. And that’s all that matters to some people; that’s how it’s always been.
The truth doesn’t matter. Honesty doesn’t matter. NOT STEALING doesn’t matter. Respect doesn’t matter. Why? Because they WANT it. And that’s what matters, right? The land grabbers seem surprised when others don’t agree.
And then they have the goddamned nerve to talk about how Indians are “freeloading” and have it easy.
@ Happiness
Gotti came to my mind.
@Truthbetold
“I can’t wait to hear what white people have to comment about this.
No matter how you explain it, Abagond, they won’t / can’t see it.
Great story, by the way.”
Yea, this will be rich, if not pathetically predictable.
@Truthbetold:
I truly believe that it is NOT desired at all. Why improve a situation that benefits them?
—
I know what you mean.
@Mamzer HaKodesh:
—
Thanks for your Canadian perspective. This isn’t just an American thing.
and not only the rich daughter in law is blamed, and all of her benefactors, but all the people in the land rich or poor who hold the same skin tone of the rich daughter in law, so they all take it out on the wrong people…………the end
and brotherwolf , you are so right, white people are ALL soooo predictable. “But why are you here DAVE” maybe I’m like the black people who show up to protest a clan rally. Do sensible white people blame them for being to a “peaceful” clan rally to hate on black people on their own accord. But you on the other hand like so many other blacks condone the hatred and mistreatment of whites and turn the other cheek to it, all the while making up more excuses why you hate whites. I have noticed you are starting to enter the realm of a black supremacy advocate rather then harmless racial bias.
@dave:
‘and not only the rich daughter in law is blamed, and all of her benefactors, but all the people in the land rich or poor who hold the same skin tone of the rich daughter in law, so they all take it out on the wrong people…………the end.”
—
So who, in your opinion, are the RIGHT people?
@ Nom not every white person is the right people , that’s what it has turned into here. Don’t deny that. I don’t know how you can state there is way more white people on welfare and poverty out of one side of your mouth, and then say those same poor people have their foot on your necks the next day, I will never get the racist logic here.
@ Dave
Yes, you are predictable.
The sad thing is you fell right into this trap.
Quit now before you are ahead.
P.S. Is your real name…Lara?
@truthnotbetold you are so right , I think I will actually do something productive and not argue with a rock head like you.
Comment to all:
This is why I have given up entirely on conversations of this nature with whites. To have any reasonable, intelligent thoughts is purely a waste of my time.
No matter how you put it, no matter how you carefully construct analogy after analogy, they can not and will not understand.
Now when I must speak to most whites, ( I usually try my hardest not to by hiding under a headphone), I imagine myself being whisk away in a cloud made of marshmallow fluff…anything to drown out the white noise, ( pun intended)
look truth when you point a finger at someone always remember there are three more pointed right at you from your own hand. THERES some truth for you.
@ Truthbetold:
I hear you loud and clear. Analogies don’t get the point across. Direct statements such as “I refuse to answer a rhetorical question” are ignored. When you do take time to answer a question, and then ask one in return, the original answer gets sidestepped and picked apart because “oh, I don’t like the way you asked it – your tone was TOO MEAN!”
I literally had someone here at work say that I “made a charged statement” when I pointed out the FACT that I have a right to be included in the scheduling of my breaks and coverage of same. There is simply no reasoning with that type of person.
I’ll have to say, I spewed my coffee over the insane ‘peaceful KLAN rally’ comment! That’s quite a telling statement, IMHO…
@dave:
I don’t know how you can state there is way more white people on welfare and poverty out of one side of your mouth, and then say those same poor people have their foot on your necks the next day,
—
I was making a point about how the media more often than not unfairly depicts the recipients of food stamps, unemployment insurance and “welfare checks” as black people, or as one former politician put it recently, “blaaa people.” Black people who don’t want to work, and black kids who “think” that the only way to make money is from crime because their parents aren’t “role models.’ All one has to do is turn on the TV, computer or radio to hear the scapegoating. I do believe that white privilege benefits white people, regardless of socioeconomic status. Also, I’ve seen and experienced blatant racism from so-called “poor’” whites, and have at times felt like a collective “foot’ was on my neck or on the necks of people I know. I have never understood why many poor whites align themselves with the Establishment, which I believe, makes them part of the Establishment.
You said you were going into “lurk” mode. What happened?
@ Dave
And when you point you use all five digits. Get it? Get it?
THERES some truth for you.
three words: white women privilege
@sepultura that’s why I put “peaceful” in quotes, because no matter how they want to spin it they will never be peaceful, and I don’t have a problem with black people putting a stop to them. I’m also not saying this blog has anywhere near the power and hatred of the clan, but some people on here are heading down that same direction with blind hatred. SOOOOOOOOOO I feel it necessary to put a white point of view out there. If I come across harsh at times it is to meet the level of the harshness of many of the clueless hardheaded people on here.
@ Dave
Ha! YOU are one of these clueless hardheaded people. You say you post here to offer a White perspective to counterbalance the supposed growing Black racism on this blog? That’s the lamest excuse for trolling I’ve seen.
brothawolf,
The analogy illustrated in this post suggests that the direct beneficiaries of the mobster ought to feel and be held accountable for profits gained at the expense of those who were exploited by him.
Since the majority of white Americans are not descendents or even remotely related to those who utilized slave labor, how would you say that this example suggests the culpability and implied accountability of this largest segment of white Americans?
Sighs! It’s a curse to be so loved.
brotherwolf , you are so right, white people are ALL soooo predictable. “But why are you here DAVE” maybe I’m like the black people who show up to protest a clan rally. Do sensible white people blame them for being to a “peaceful” clan rally to hate on black people on their own accord. But you on the other hand like so many other blacks condone the hatred and mistreatment of whites and turn the other cheek to it, all the while making up more excuses why you hate whites. I have noticed you are starting to enter the realm of a black supremacy advocate rather then harmless racial bias.
Dave, in the first place I’ve never heard of black people ever showing up to a Klan rally willingly or consciously. Second, what the hell is so peaceful about preaching hatred? Third, I don’t condone any mistreatment of whites by blacks. I dunno where you pulled that from. Fourth, I never said I hate whites. Fifth, I’m no black supremacist. I never said nor implied in any way that I was a black supremacist.
Dave, this is getting extremely sad. You’re now looking like a parody of white racists.
Randy,
What evidence do you have that proves that most of the whites in America are not related to the slavemasters of the past? And even if what you say is true, they still benefit from it because they have something the slavemasters had: white skin.
@nom, it is not just poor whites who I think shouldn’t be blamed, what about a white guy, who was denied a business loan, and most of his family was poor, so they couldn’t bankroll him, he couldn’t find a good job out there, so he got a job as a brochure distributor, and put in 12 hours a day, rain or shine. He saved up enough to get a carpet cleaning machine, then started slipping business flyers into his brochure route. He got a few jobs here and there, then got a fictitious name for his business, got a small business account, tried to get a loan again,DENIED, saved some more money, bought a mini-van with cash, got a job for service master only after I told the owner my story, and he was impressed with my work ethic, I called him 20 times. He was concerned knowing I had a listed carpet cleaning business, but I never took a job from him, I did my own jobs in the evening and on the weekends, never in his county(Service Master franchises have to stay in a certain territory). But I did learn another aspect of the cleaning business, which is disaster restoration. Got certified in water damage restoration, fire damage restoration ,Mold Remediation, and Lead Abatement. September 11, 2001 I volunteered to go to the pentagon on behalf of the Service Master Franchise I worked for to assist with the smoke damage clean up in the rest of the building that wasn’t destroyed. Spent 3 months there working 12 hours 7 days a week. When I came home I lost some customers, my girl friend, my job at service master(so much for white privilege) the owners excuse was that he slowed down in the winter, but some of the people he hired while we were at he pentagon were kept on. I suspected he never liked that I kept pursuing my dream to be a business owner in the same arena, however I live and hour from the office and as I said only did jobs that wasn’t in his area. If I was black I would have had a case. I worked my a$$ off for that jerk.
Long story short, got out of the business, and did some other things , mostly sales and marketing(100% commission, thats what they offer you with no degree, so kids out there STAY IN SCHOOL), got laid off in late 2009 and took another shot at the same business, I still had some of the equipment, and still owned the name, I got the business off the ground, and other than an account with the supply company where I get my chemicals, NEVER got a loan in 5 tries. During Hurricane Irene alone I made $55,000 in water damage cleanup jobs. I’m out there doing all the work. Many of these jobs are sewage backups. one particular job had two feet of sewage water in the basement.
Now with all the bills I have, I’m by no means rich ,…..YET. but I will make it. So when I do am I like the rich daughter in law? Fulck no and Fulck her.
brotherwolf, you are more like a baby lamb, grow up
@ Dave
Correlation does not imply causation.
Dave,
Frankly, I’m done babysitting you. Continue to rant and rave if you want.
AMAZING!!!!
@brotha, you are right,a little harsh. But shouldn’t you chill out as well. The average white person isn’t as bad as you think man. really from the heart you need to let go of the hate. and I’m mad at abagond for not telling you this.
The truth remains guys,
This foot is not only within America.. this side in Africa we also feel it. With the colonial era the whites grabed the land, they were the government those days and the legislation was so so biased.
for instance lets take the investments in say pension funds.
the returns where ranked with race,
the minimum wages was also linked to race,
so you can clearly see that every white person benefited from this.
Dave,
Where have I said that I hated white people, and when did I say it? I’ve never once said it here or on my own blog. I HAVE said that I hated whiteness, white supremacy, and white privilege.
I’ve already let this go Dave, but you can’t, and you should. This is my last response to you because this is beyond sad. I’m not as hyped up as you apparently are. I’m just taking this in stride. I will say this before I quit this pointless back and forth. No one, and I mean NO ONE forced you to respond to this blog. You did it on YOUR own free will. No black person made you do it. Abagond didn’t make you do it. And I certainly didn’t make you do it.
YOU DID! And when you did, you made a comment about how blacks kill more whites than the other way around on a topic about the murder of an asian man, Vincent Chin, by two white men. What you’ve typed wasn’t germaine to the issue not to mention it’s another typical false lie racists believe in. And the rest was history.
You see, you can continue on the same path Lara was on and end up getting derailed right off the tracks and out of this blog for good. You and her are incapable of reason. In fact one could say that you both have a mental and moral retardation that prevents you from learning from a different perspective. You don’t have to buy it, but it’s MORE THAN OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE that there’s no point in talking to you.
I bid you Adieu, Ciao, Arrivederci, Sayonara, Aloha, Auf Wiedersehen, Au revoir, Sizobonana, Sholem, A go dey see yu now, and Good bye.
@dave; Once again, instead of understanding that it is the same System that is kicking you and putting you down which is doing it for the others, you rant and rave about blacks calling whites this and that. What you should do is to look at the System of your country, analyse why the heck a guy like you, despite all your efforts and hard work, is been treated like that and in that jam. What you should do, is to get some political education.
@abagond; once again, a good post. Reminds me of one Animal Farm some how.
ok brotha, but I have read alot of your comments and they speak for themselves, you do have a problem with the average everyday white person, and if you want to sugar coat it by calling it “demonic whiteness” which you cosigned don’t say it wasn’t you , and dismiss me when things get a little tough, you should see just by the story that I shared with all of you, that I am by no means just like Lara, I think you may be more on her level when it comes to life experience. A comment like that proves that you put all white commenters in one box especially when there is conflicting opinions.
@Sam I lived in America all my life and you don’t need to school me .There is other smarts then book smarts.
I couldn’t get a loan because I had no collateral, It’s hard to start something from the ground up. That’s why the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
But there is a way out. I also made some poor choices in my life which made it even tougher.
also@sam are you really white, because if you are I have to question your courage, You NEVER disagree with any black person. It’s like they could say that all whites should be grinded up in a giant blender, and you say nothing and even agree with it. Where are your cahones.
Yeah, we still benefit. Being white in America is easier than being black most of the time. But your analogy falls short because the mob wife chose to accept the privileges. Whites do not. It’s kind of strange that yall don’t think that’s an important distinction.
@ Dave
I’m the one around here who’s always saying that WHITENESS is demonic. And I’ve yet to receive a response informing me why this isn’t true – aside from someone here hinting that demons and the Bible and God aren’t real – at least in the way that’s commonly believed.
If you would take Sam’s advice you’d perhaps see that the “system” – which denied and blocked your aspirations – is rooted IN WHITENESS. Whiteness does not mean that all white people always get a pass. Or, that they all lead charmed and troubled free lives. It simply mean that they aren’t saddle with all the extra weight that being “other” entails. In western society, that equates to virtually countless advantages, privileges that too many white people can’t seem to see. I would suggest that you read or re-read, White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack (Peggy McIntosh)
Hating whiteness does not mean that one hates white people. If Brothawolf, or Abagond, or I, hated white people, we would simply say it.
What we hate is racism..in all of its convoluted forms that privileges whites while oppressing, mistreating, marginalizes blacks! And more than anything we wish it would stop – we wish white people would stop being racist.
To me, this site is like an online version of the black church, barbershops, hairdressers where black folks would come together in a space/place, where we could be ourselves while also affirming – and taking a break/rest from – our day to day experiences of living life in a racist society. You think this site is full of hate. It isn’t. It’s more like a soothing balm. It’s part and parcel of how we endure the racism we experience in our day to day experience.
Abagond welcomes everyone here, but not everyone here welcomes people who persistently sees things that weren’t said. That wastes too much time and energy. Your experience and time here might be better spent and more beneficial if the “attitude” is left/checked at the door.
If something that’s posted here
doesn’t apply (to you)
… then let it fly.
@ John
If you were in a car accident and were wheeled unconscious into a hospital you would get better care than a black person of the same age, sex and insurance. That is a case of enjoying white privilege against your will.
But MOST white people go beyond unwilling acceptance. They DEFEND, excuse, justify or are wilfully blind to said privileges. They OPPOSE solid measures that would tear down such privileges. They ALIGN themselves with rich whites over people of colour of their own class – going against their own MATERIAL self-interest!!!! They are PROUD of their country’s past which is violently racist, something which they seek to MORALLY excuse!!!!!!!!! They are completely down with being part of the white club.
To be racist is to defend white privilege. Your white privilege is no longer something that is against your will.
I suppose there are whites who are “white against their will”, but most whites are nothing like that. They ARE the mobster’s daughter-in-law. You can tell by the way they talk.
The cheat sheet:
The mobster = British Americans
The daughter-in-law = assimilated white ethnics (“my family came here after slavery”), modelled most directly on commenter Dave Lister
The other side of town = people of colour, particularly black, native and Mexican Americans
They left her millions = white privilege
The excuses = Stuff White People Say
@ Dave
Like what Matari said, white privilege is not some kind of magic fairy dust that makes all of life’s troubles go away.
A good example is unemployment. White privilege does not mean you will never be out of work. But it DOES mean that you are half as likely to be out of work as a black person. That is true even if you just compare whites and blacks with good educations.
@ Randy
The people who made the most money off of slave labour were the middle men, most of them in the North and in Britain. That in turn underwrote the country’s industrialization. The rising wealth lifted white boats way more than black boats.
The Homestead Act gave away Dead Indian Land at cut rates to WHITE PEOPLE only.
Even to this day whites benefit from blacks and Latinos being underpaid: it increases their pay and profits and lowers costs and white unemployment.
@Matari:
Whiteness does not mean that all white people always get a pass. Or, that they all lead charmed and troubled free lives. It simply mean that they aren’t saddle with all the extra weight that being “other” entails.
—
So well-put.
@Sepultura13:
“oh, I don’t like the way you asked it – your tone was TOO MEAN!”
—-
I see this a lot at work. One occasion was a small meeting of approximately ten employees that included slightly more whites than blacks. The manager who conducted the meeting was a black man. He was blunt yet professional while addressing the points on his agenda. Now keep in mind that we were all in the same meeting hearing the same words. Not once did the manager raise his voice, threaten people or use offensive language. When the meeting ended, many of the whites huddled. I heard one say, “How dare he speak to us that way! Who does he think he is?! The others nodded in the affirmative and said similar things. On the way back to my desk I overheard some of the black employees say something about how well they thought the meeting went, and how glad they were that things were finally going to move forward. Two totally different filters.
Moral of the (true) story: IMO there is a tendency to focus on tone rather than content, even when there is nothing overtly aggressive about the tone. Black men are often automatically assumed to be aggressive and angry. The same goes for black women, A prime example is the recent media uproar about Michelle Obama being an “angry black woman.”
@ Dave, sam and other white commenters
Having white skin is a privilege in of itself.
You are automatically seen as :
smart
educated
moral
decent
loving
fair
honest
You never have to PROVE you are…you just are.
You are the default that with which all things are measured.
Your skin provides you with all the opportunities blacks / browns / reds / yellows will never have.
Higher salary
Greater pay increases
Better schooling for your child
Better healthcare
Longer life expectancy
And…most of all, the benefit of the doubt that you are an honourable person to be trusted.
The reason why you are fighting all of us here, especially Brothawolf, is because his words resonate deep within you.
You know that his words ring true and it is painful to hear.
You can defend, deny, twist anything you wish…it doesn’t matter.
In the end, your whiteness is seen by most people of colour as the reason why we are measured and judged by our blackness.
@ Nom de plume
Tone is a big part of white fallacy.
” If only they were nicer!” ( sniff, sniff)
I was in WI on assignment during the McCain campaign. If I ever had any doubt where blacks stand in the minds of most whites, let me assure you, it’s been wiped out.
I too am disgusted by the way our First Lady has been treated.
It’s almost laughable the whites excuse bad behavior.
You can just read through these comments and sit back in disbelief that it’s 2012, not 1912.
Brothawolf said:
” Sighs! It’s a curse to be so loved.”
That’s it!!!
That’s the real reason for all the hate.
Underlying envy.
Your intelligence upsets them.
Keep up the good work!
No wonder they will DENY, DEFLECT, IGNORE-racism. White folk have too much to lose! It’s all about the dollar, dollar bill ya’ll.
Nice analogy by the way. Too bad, they don’t get it. *wink* *wink*
@dave: YOU question my balls? Oh man, oh man, if you only knew. I have challenged the government and prime minister, and most of the parliament, of my country openly in public calling them organized crime in the biggest daily news paper of this country. They never took on the challege, though, I wonder why…
As for agreeing with the blacks here all the time. I have disagreed with the ideas I disagree, I don’t disagree with color of skin, white or black, but I also understand why some commentators say things they say. I have experienced the racism of the american system personally because of the company I kept, so I also understand where some of the bitterness comes from.
Also I am old enough and been around enough that I don’t take everything personally. I agree with many things said here because they are true. I may not like those things, I might be annoyed, but the truth is truth.
@truthtobetold: See, Dave just accused me of being too pro black here. As for brothawolf, I don’t remember disagreeing with him that many times.
True, as a white european I have my share of white privelidge, that is true. But, like I said, I have been looking on the barrel of an assault rifle held by american federal officer just because I happened to be with some native american activists back in the 80′s.
As I am not american, I look at the american system a bit differently from dave and these guys, hence their dissapointment at me.
@ sam
I’m a black european of mixed heritage.
Imagine looking at the barrel of an assault weapon every day.
Imagine that weapon in your face at:
Work
The store where you want to purchase goods
At the doctor’s office/ hospital
When you want to buy a house
When the cops see you on the highway
When you are the president of the United States
Understand that, and you will kind of, sort of, pseudo, quasi know what it feels like to be black.
@ Nom de Plume & Truthbetold:
Re: the ‘tone’ thing – some woman did that to me at work yesterday; she asked me a question and I replied. I was a bit distracted because I was looking up some travel directions for the president of the company, and she apparently didn’t like the way I replied, because she said, “well, you don’t have to be snotty about it!” and walked off in a huff.
Another woman told me once, “I don’t like the way you looked at me when I asked you a question!” She made a major ASSumption and failed to check her own actions. See, I was on my break at the time and was sitting in a designated break-room, with the door shut, talking with my fiance on my cell phone. She burst into the room without knocking and made her demand while I was trying to listen to my fiance talk about some inanity that his ex-wife had done. The expression on my face was solely due to the phone conversation I was involved in, but that stupid wench thought that “it was all about her” – nothing was further from the truth, but do you think that crossed her tiny brain? Of course not! It was much easier for her to blame ME for her lack of manners and observation!
@ Sepultura13
That’s why I now work mostly from home.
@ Truthbetold:
Self-employment is something I’m striving for…yet AGAIN…hopefully the third time will be the charm.
I nearly had a private counseling practice, but the person I was going to go into business with defaulted and left me with the debt. That’s another thing a lot of WP fail to understand – the penalties for them if they fail in a business venture are minimal. The managing principal of the office had an engineering firm in Colorado and it tanked after 5 years. How nice for him that he could move to Oregon and start fresh with a clean slate! That won’t happen for me, and it’s certainly not for a lack of trying, no matter what other people want to think or ASSume.
@matari, thank you for actually talking to me like a real person unlike some people. I may not agree with everything you say , but at least it was genuine.
@sam, I understand the bitterness as well, but I don’t promote it. Especially when the bitterness turns to bigoted hate. I apologize for being too honest with you about how I feel. I do think you are a real smart guy, and some of these younger commenters should respect you whether you kiss their black butts or not.
If this blog was only about understanding, I wouldn’t get so fired up. I think its more about justification of hating all things white. Even recent white immigrants which abagond just equated to the rich daughter in law.
@sepultura It is the edge of a cliff for me if I don’t make it and there is a tremendous amount of pressure on me. My white skin does not change that.
also @matari, didn’t we learn that black churches “also can be” breeding grounds for white hatred in the 2008 elections. This video is comedy I am a heavy metal fan. the praise mosh pit.
@Sepultura13:
@dave:
I hope things work out for both of you.
@dave:
re: @matari
“didn’t we learn that black churches “also can be” breeding grounds for white hatred in the 2008 elections.”
—
Might I remind you that white churches can be breeding grounds for hatred. Remember Reverend Terry Jones of Florida, the guy who wanted to burn all those Korans? The guy who the Secretaries of Defense and State called personally to ask him to stop what he was about to do, so that lives may not be lost? A lot of the oppression that occurred in this country happened because of the white Establishment’s warped interpretation of Christianity.
By the way, some people may view the video you posted as something other than “comedy.’
Amazingly, there are people out there that somehow believe Africans/blacks now have advantages that they don’t have.
I found this study (below) on the net. This report outlines just a fraction of the invisible privileges most whites can’t see. But blacks get tagged with the ridiculous assertion by (some) whites that we are keeping racism alive – by talking about it. Yet when the research, data, studies, and so forth bears out our experiences these same white people are strangely quiet. Why is that?
******************************
I. Excerpts from Bullard, Robert, “Environmental Justice for All,” Unequal Protection: Environmental Justice & Communities of Color, Sierra Club Books 1994
1. The Commission for Racial Justice’s landmark study, Toxic Waste and Race in the United States, found race to be the single most important factor (i.e. more important that income, home ownership rate, and property values) in the location of abandoned toxic waste sites. The study also found that:
1. three out of five African Americans live in communities with abandoned toxic waste sites;
2. 60% (15 million) African Americans live in communities with one or more abandoned toxic waste site;
3. three of the five largest commercial hazardous waste landfills are located in predominantly African American or Latino American communities and account for 40% of the nation’s total estimated landfill capacity; and
4. African Americans are heavily over-represented in the populations of cities with the largest number of abandoned toxic waste sites.
(pp. 17-18)
2. Millions of Americans live in housing and physical environments that are overburdened with environmental problems including older housing with lead-based paint, congested freeways that crisscross neighborhoods, industries that emit dangerous pollutants into the area, and abandoned toxic waste sites.
Virtually all of the studies of exposure to outdoor air pollution have found significant differences in exposure by income and race. African Americans and Latino Americans are more likely than whites to live in areas with reduced air quality.
(p. 12)
3. A 1992 study by staff writers from the National Law Journal uncovered glaring inequities in the way the federal EPA enforces its laws. The authors write:
There is a racial divide in the way the U.S. government cleans up toxic waste sites and punishes polluters. White communities see faster action, better results and stiffer penalties than communities where blacks, Hispanics and other minorities live. This unequal protection often occurs whether the community is wealthy or poor.
(p. 9)
4. After examining census data, civil court dockets, and the EPA’s own record of performance at 1,177 Superfund toxic waste sites, the National Law Journal report revealed the following:
1. Penalties under hazardous waste laws at sites having the greatest white population were 500% higher than penalties with the greatest minority population, averaging $335,566 for white areas, compared to $55,318 for minority areas.
2. The disparity under the toxic waste law occurs by race alone, not income. The average penalty in areas with lowest income is $113,491; 3% more than the average penalty in areas with the highest median incomes.
3. For all the federal environmental laws aimed at protecting citizens from air, water, and wasted pollution, penalties in white communities were 46% higher than in minority communities.
4. Under the giant Superfund cleanup program, abandoned hazardous waste sites in minority areas take 20% longer to be placed on the national priority list than those in white areas.
II. Vital Statistics from the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation:
* African American children are five times more likely to suffer from lead poisoning than white children, and 22% of African American children living in older housing are lead poisoned.
* An estimated 50% of African Americans and 60% of Hispanics live in a county in which levels of two or more air pollutants exceed governmental standards.
* Communities with the greatest number of commercial hazardous-waste facilities have some of the highest proportions of minority residents.
* Half of all Asian/Pacific Islanders and American Indians live in communities with uncontrolled toxic waste sites.
* Communities with existing incinerators have 89% more minorities than the national average.
* African Americans are heavily overrepresented in cities with the largest number of abandoned toxic waste sites, such as Memphis, St. Louis, Houston, Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta.
*********************
Where is the “collective white outcry” on matters of unfair practices geared at non-white people? Why aren’t white people coming to this blog, en mass, and posting EVIDENCE like the one above, and demanding fairness and justice and UNITY across racial lines from their fellow “WHITE” brethren?
I have absolutely no sympathy or concern for the “feelings” of those white people that can’t handle the naked truth – above their privileges versus our mistreatment!
Spent 3 months there working 12 hours 7 days a week. ………………If I was black I would have had a case. I worked my a$$ off for that jerk.
I read your story and your frustration was palpable, not surprising when we are all led to believe that if you work hard you will be rewarded.
Thing is Dave, this is one particular issue that has left you embittered. Certainly not trying to undermine what you have said here but, just imagine facing this kind of rejection most every day of your life for no other reason than the colour of your skin?
* Say you struggled to get a reasonably paid job in the firs place cos they already ‘had their quota’ of POC?
* Say, they wouldnt even see you in the bank because you sounded black?
* Say that despite this, you saved up enough cash to start off small and your clients wouldnt let you past the gate cos of the colour of your skin?
BTW, the ‘if I was black’ comes across as a spiteful, snide dig. It really wasnt necessary at all if you think about it – was it? Working the ‘black blame’ into your situation speaks volumes about your feelings of disempowerment generally. This is NOT the fault of BP – put the resentment back where it really should lie, with the ‘Jerk you worked your ass off for’ who may or may not happen to be a black but, regardless, in your mind is a jerk anyway.
From the posts of yours that I have read, it seems that you have given examples where you are constantly fighting to be treated as an equal even amongst your White peers and that this has you feeling bitter about how you are viewed in society. Its almost at times as if you are saying ‘I’m white and treated like shite’ then when you come on here its like an affront to you ‘how dare black people be dissatisfied with how they are treated and discuss it openly on a forum such as this’ when me, a white man, isnt even treated well – always complaining blacks, they should have MY life instead.
I’m sure there is much credence to your frustration as your struggles to make something of your life seemed to have turned to mush and this would demoralise many people but, the measure of a man is often how he copes and comes bakc from situations such as these.
You could read everything that I have said here and turn round and tell me that I am totally wrong but let me put this to you. If I have surmised this from a few words you have written on some blogs, how the hell are your portraying yourself in real life? This is the key to all the disappointments and setbacks you have faced Dave, coming on here and getting p*ssed off cos some like minded people are talking about common issues and concerns is, I dont think is the crux of your reason for posting. If you think about it, a part of you understands and appreciates not being treated fairly as, unfortunately, this seems to be part of your life at the moment.
Maybe you are trying to say that ‘as a WM, I have felt as you have’ but it comes across as ‘as a WM, I have more of a burden in life than you could possibley have. You’re black, black people always play the race card and win’.
By this kind of analogy that Syrian immigrant who rented the house across the street from me, a refugee from the turmoil in his home country and who works the graveyard shift is in reality as the widowed daughter-in-law of a dead British mobster.
You people are insane.
@ Jay
You need to quit with the ALL WHITES stuff. I never said anything like that. It is certainly not how I think:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/the-not-all-whites-argument/
People who just got to America are not like the daughter-in-law. I would not even say that ALL native-born White Americans are like her. But those who TALK like her certainly are: they defend a racist society that puts whites on top, excusing the crimes that created it.
@ Jay
“You people are insane.”
*****************************
If we’re “insane” what does this say about YOU – as you keep coming here!
Why are YOU here?
Have you friends, family members or associates that regularly visit “insane” asylums?
Part of the problem is; if you include everybody who profits in some way from the mobster in the long run, wouldn’t that be nearly everybody in america?
Black people and other minorities included?
It doesn’t matter if your the lowest member of a criminal organization or not and as long as your a US citizen, your part of that organization.
From the posts of yours that I have read, it seems that you have given examples where you are constantly fighting to be treated as an equal even amongst your White peers and that this has you feeling bitter about how you are viewed in society. Its almost at times as if you are saying ‘I’m white and treated like shite’ then when you come on here its like an affront to you ‘how dare black people be dissatisfied with how they are treated and discuss it openly on a forum such as this’ when me, a white man, isnt even treated well – always complaining blacks, they should have MY life instead.
Dave, POC in this country have been fighting for years to be treated as equals, but assuming that your story is correct, it seems you are fighting to attain the same privileges that rich white men have, but you’re seeing that it’s extremely hard. This is what POC deal with, and instead of chastising them, you should side with them.
Once again, instead of understanding that it is the same System that is kicking you and putting you down which is doing it for the others, you rant and rave about blacks calling whites this and that. What you should do is to look at the System of your country, analyse why the heck a guy like you, despite all your efforts and hard work, is been treated like that and in that jam. What you should do, is to get some political education.
That’s the point Dave. You are taking out your anger on black folks when it’s the people in higher positions who are mostly white that is screwing you up. The bottom line is Dave is that we are not the problem. The system based on whiteness and white supremacy did you in, a system created by your white brothers. It’s the same system that tricked you into thinking you have more in common with them than working class blacks, the same blacks you constantly bash.
Seriously, if you can’t understand that simple concept, there’s nothing more anyone can tell you. You just prefer to kick blacks even when they’re down than understanding where they’re coming from seeing as how you are fighting along with them. Instead, you choose to fight against them.
I just don’t get it, but whatever…
@Matari
@ Jay
“You people are insane.”
*****************************
If we’re “insane” what does this say about YOU – as you keep coming here!
Why are YOU here?
Have you friends, family members or associates that regularly visit “insane” asylums?
A stalker I guess lol
@Jay
Do you work for neighborhood watch or are you just a nosey neighbour? You seem extremely caught up with ‘who’s who’ in your neck o’ the woods.
@ Nom de Plume:
Thank you.
@ general audience:
I’m striving for a better situation, not petty one-upsmanship. Some people need to realize that what they say comes across as such.
@V-4:
Part of the problem is; if you include everybody who profits in some way from the mobster in the long run, wouldn’t that be nearly everybody in america?
Black people and other minorities included?
It doesn’t matter if your the lowest member of a criminal organization or not and as long as your a US citizen, your part of that organization.
—
Are you saying that blacks Americans and other American minorites have profitted in the long run from the mobster’s unscrupulous actions, so that makes them part of the larger mobster organization and participants in its actions? I want to make sure I understand you correctly.
“Ouch!” cried the nail for he had been hit on the head again by Abagond.
@Truthbetold:
“Better healthcare” (From your list).
—
Racism does affect healthcare. I remember hearing about a U. S. study a while back. It found that when white patients were seen by white doctors, the doctors were more likely to order a more extensive battery of tests than for their black patients with similar symptoms and insurance plans. Also, when white patients presented with pain, white doctors were more likely to prescribe pain medication than for black patients with pain. (I can’t remember if this was the same study).
My doctor isn’t white. I vetted her with a fine-tooth comb. I chose her not because I think she’s better than white doctors, or because I think all white doctors are racists. I chose her because I never want to wonder if I’m getting the care I need when I need it.
@Truthbetold
“And…most of all, the benefit of the doubt that you are an honourable person to be trusted.’
—
“Benefit of the doubt” can’t be discussed enough. The lack of it is yet another form of “subtle” racism that POC face.
@truthbetold: The simple truth is that I will never know what it is to be a black man in USA. I know that. But I am not one to deny the reality either.
This reminds me of the Rodney story King wrote some time ago. It’s even flawed in the exact same way. Both stories construct a dichotomy between the obviously evil oppressors and the helpless victims. The victims are not in any way responsible for the bad things that happen to them. In Abagond’s version they apparently cannot even say “no” to hookers and blow!
Villains and victims – as If real life was that simple…
P.S. isn’t dichotomous thinking supposed to be a white thing?
@dave
Hail Dave. I can understand your frustration to an extent, but instead of Abagond’s allegory I would like to use a metaphor. The American melting pot has its contents various Hyphenated Americans. However, those that are White are (both in appearance and in ideology) the ones that are assimilated into the soup. The Hyphenated Africans that are Black , Yellow Brown, or Red, are used as fuel for the pot. The only way the coloured Hyphenated Americans are able to get into the pot are by signing The Racial Contract. As you may have noticed, Blacks are the most reluctant to do so.
@Jay from Philly
I love the Germans. The Teutonic Genius, I believe, has been unmatched in 200 years, not even by the Japanese. The works of Einstein, Nietzsche, Kant, Hegel, and others, represent the heights of mankind’s achievements, and deserve to be emulated by all peoples, especially Blacks. The Haber-Bosch process is no doubt, the greatest achievement of the 20th century, feeding more than 2 billion people, and thus staving of a worldwide Malthusian collapse.
See what I did there? Now, I would like you to find one, just one, good thing to say about Black people, like what I just did for a subset of White people. Justone good thing Jay. Just one.
@ eco
Thanks. I forgot those:
“You people need to take responsibility and stop blaming me!” (While completely avoiding responsibility herself)
and:
“Just say no to drugs!” (while standing in front of a house built with drug money)
or better yet:
“Just say no to drugs!” (while helping the Contras sell drugs in America)
@everyone, don’t think coming here hasn’t rubbed off on me, because it has. I do realize there are whites who hate for no reason, some of them are my friends, family , neighbors, and others, and they are brainwashed by the media. I’ll say this I’ll bet if I hung out with DMX he would be cool as heck. MTV would lead you to believe that he would hate me for being white. But I think someone like Bryant Gumbel who is probably more whitebread than me would stick his nose up. I know the comparison is unfair it’s just the first one that came to mind. Sometime intellectual, somewhat privileged blacks seem to be the ones with the chip on their shoulders after studying civil rights inside and out.
I realize you want to fight against the system of hate. Just try not to turn into one of the haters.
It’s like yoda said the path of the dark side starts with fear, then anger, then hate, then suffering, then evil. in so many words.
@Demerera what you said made alot of sense and I will concede you are right about “if I were black statement” I never really thought that I just added it for effect on this blog , which is sort of confrontational. I fall into the trap of hate as well. I will admit that alot of my frustrations come from the fact that there is a wall between people in america and the rich elite want us to fight one another. I feel like some of the rich elites want black people to kick poor whites butts so they can justify the unjust prison system. @brotha don’t think I don’t have a distain for rich corporations who hold us all down. Not only do they run this country, they run the world.
@abagond, I do respect you even though I get mad at times. Maybe I am misunderstanding some of it. But I think sometimes people get the wrong message, as I do, who are black, and they in turn feel justified by your powerful words, in hating and maybe even hurting white individuals. I think it can make the problem worse on both sides.
@Nom De Plume
Well; fact is living in the US comes with benefits, at least when it comes to access to wealth.
Even for minorities.
Basically a shit life here is still better than quite a few other places, and the active participation of free blacks over the years in the cause of the organization.
Than factor in how many minorities become soldiers in the Mobsters army.
End of the day; black people were just as involved in the destruction and rape of the natives as everybody else who also immigrated here or got kidnapped etc….there’s blood on your hands as much as everybody elses.
And black people have also been involved in keeping the economy and the “machine” going so to speak.
Basically to make the Abagond’s analogy closer to reality, all the victims would also be living in the mansion, just in the shittiest rooms and doing the shittiest jobs (most of them, rarely one of them might actually get fairly high up in rank and at least one would actually reach the position of “Don”) mistreated by the higher ups of the organization.
Ultimately Nom De Plume, I guess the question is, why apply the standards specifically to the white “race” and not every other group it applies to in some way as well?
Dave said: ” don’t think coming here hasn’t rubbed off on me, because it has.”
Dave, question:
What have you learned from this?
I love it when whites, assuming you are white, say this line.
What does it mean?
@V-4:
‘Ultimately Nom De Plume, I guess the question is, why apply the standards specifically to the white “race” and not every other group it applies to in some way as well?”
—-
Good morning/afternoon/evening, V-4.
I don’t dispute that Americans in general have better standards of living than people in other parts of the world. You are attempting to minimize the role of a white-run system that has in so many ways wreaked havoc on the lives of the less powerful, especially minorities. So much so that the effects can still be felt centuries later in this country. Just think of how Native Americans who live on reservations are faring. The ‘We’re not so bad! You did it, too!’ argument isn’t a strong one.
American blacks and other minorities have never been “just as involved” as whites in any kind of destruction or violence in this country, so they cannot have blood on their hands “just as much as everybody else.” Whatever role minorities may have played in anything pales (pun intended) in comparison to what powerful whites have done. Yes, American ‘victims’ may live in the mansion, but it is the white-run system that put them in “the shittiest rooms” and gave them “the shittiest jobs” – if they even HAVE a job. The fact that the “victims” live in shitty rooms and have shitty jobs in the first place, speaks volumes about the imbalance of power.
As for your question, “… why apply the standards specifically to the white “race” and not every other group it applies to in some way as well?’ Because no other group has had the same power to do what whites have done. It would be accurate to say that the white-system used any means necessary to get on top and stay on top. (Sorry Malcolm). A lot of whites want to believe they excel in just about everything. Well, they certainly excel in this regard. :
Yes there are varying levels of wealth and yes minorities often get a raw deal. Especially when it comes to Natives.
I’m not minimizing the role of white people; I and most white people are pretty open about how much we’ve fucked over everybody else over the years.
Only ones who don’t are pretty much white guys from the 1950′s who just can’t give up their old school ego-centric and deluded patriotism.
Sure minorities are pretty much on the lowest end of the scale but compared to the elite, powerful whites who isn’t?
I’m not saying whites don’t bear responsibility for much of whats been done and continues to be done but I’m also not blind to the fact minorities have their own portion of responsibility as well.
Can’t have a organization without the little people keeping the system going.
At this point they are also involved in the mob and in the crimes of kidnapping, robbing etc…that the mob kept on doing.
Its kind of like the mongols; they went around rampaging and pillaging, adding other tribes here and there along the way. The Mongols may have profited the most, they may have been the single largest portion of their armies but does that excuse the actions of the smaller tribes that joined up along the way?
Though to be honest; I know little to nothing about the mongols, so I’m not totally sure if thats an accurate analogy as towards them personally but it basically makes my point.
@truth, because you get to hear another point of view different from your own, and that can be a good thing. I think you need some of that yourself, you seem very hateful. and don’t say ” I hear the “white” view every day, all I need to do is turn on cnn” ,no, because that isn’t the view of the average everyday white person. If you had more of an open mind you would realize that.
@Abagond
Actually, you forgot this one too:
“stop offering us things we need for a price we accept!” (the poor people say while they are unable to notice that they are a willing participant in a game that’s rigged against them).
They can simply move to another city, can’t they? They can organize, can’t they?
@ Dave
Name one thing I’ve said that was hateful.
@truth “Now when I must speak to most whites, ( I usually try my hardest not to by hiding under a headphone), I imagine myself being whisk away in a cloud made of marshmallow fluff…anything to drown out the white noise, ( pun intended)”
To me THAT is a little harsh it means you have already made your mind up about someone before even meeting them or talking to them solely based on skin color. I was always taught that was part of the problem with racist whites of the past and present.
@Abagond – this is a brilliantly written post.
Who cares if the blog is racist? Most of the things are. But that’s not the point. “Racist” shouldn’t be used as an insult; it’s meaningless. What’s important on a blog are discussions and opinions expressed. Not whether someone is insulted and called it a racist.
Oh, crap. I commented on the wrong post. This belongs to “is this blog racist” post.
The next time I read a blog, Hopefully it does not disappoint me just as much as this one. After all, I know it was my choice to read through, but I really thought you’d have something interesting to talk about. All I hear is a bunch of complaining about something you can fix if you were not too busy looking for attention.