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Why so few white men marry black women, part II

lauren-london-parentsLast year I wrote about why so few white men marry black women. I said that it came down to racism: white men do not want to have black children.

It has become one of my most commented-on posts. Over the past several nights it has got over a hundred comments from white men who object to me calling them racists – fair enough – but then fill their comments with the most rank stereotypes about black women and black people in general! Priceless.

But then in the meantime I read the Columbia study about race and dating. Also, some of the comments have made me think more about the whole thing. Now I am not so sure.

The comments pointed out two things wrong with the first post:

  1. I said that black women in America are more open to interracial marriage than white men because a greater percentage are, in fact, in interracial marriages. But Uncle Milton pointed out that that is because black women have more opportunity (at least on paper) to marry outside their race – because most men in America are from other races. I grant his point.
  2. I left out any account of what black women think of the whole thing! When I found out that only one white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, it seemed like a straightforward case of white racism. But then some black female commenters said that the ugly history that black women have had with white men in America – all the rapes back in slave days – is in the back of their minds and that works against such relationships. And, even apart from that, the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites. True: marriage is an act of profound trust.

The Columbia study meanwhile found that while men are dogs and only care about looks, not race, women prefer men of their own race. Women, not men, apply race to dating.

Part of why Anglo-America has a One Drop Rule is because the English brought their own women. The white women would marry white men and have white children. Without that the One Drop Rule would have had little support among men, as it did in the old New Orleans under the French where white women were in short supply.

So then black women are to blame, right?

Well, it is not that simple. First, there were not enough black women in the Columbia study to draw any firm conclusions about them. But I grant that most black women would prefer to marry a black man.

Yet on the other hand I cannot shake from my mind the way white men, at least in New York, act as if black women are not living, breathing women. Like some of the white commenters, they see them as black first and women second – if at all.

See also:

1,734 Responses

  1. stereotypes about black women and black people in general

    those weren’t the only stereotypes they mentioned (expecting submission from women, the stereotype of the asian china doll and mythical hypersexuality) and I didn’t point it before but… who one Earth even uses the offensive word “mulatto” in today’s age anyway? it’s so archaic and primitive.


  2. on Fri 27 Mar 2009 at 00:32:33 mynameisnyname

    I see that you used the photo of Lauren London’s parents that I linked on here a while ago. Goes well with this post.

    Yeah, black women, because of their troubled history with white men, may not want a part of white men. I already pointed that out a long time ago.

    Yet, as evidenced by the extended commentary by those white males on the first part of this post, whites generally do not see blacks in a favorable light. This also backs up what I was saying back then: whites see blacks as subordinate to them, so actually wanting to intermarry and procreate with them is out of the question.

    Like you pointed out, a black woman, or black person in general is BLACK first, woman second or third or not at all. And obviously, blackness to them is seen as a disqualifying factor. “Mike” and the crew confirmed this stream of thought with their neverending commentary.

    That Columbia study about race and dating was what it was, but it wasn’t complete. And like you, the idea that men don’t see race when it comes to women is only partially correct…at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black. Do you agree, Aba?


  3. “who one Earth even uses the offensive word “mulatto” in today’s age anyway?”

    I wouldn’t use it In English but it is still fairly common term in Latin America (as is Negro, another pejorative term in English..) I am not going to defend it’s usage in English but the person who used it, speaks Spanish and lives in a predominantly Latino area.


  4. I would like to let everybody on this post know that once again I proved your ignorance. Like I said before, I like to research things before saying them.

    Anyways, a black girl was talking about the same topic as Abagond was on YouTube. Me and her had a decent intelligent conversation. She was actually intelligent unlike you folk! Anyways, she straight up admitted that if black girls cleaned up their act then there would be more white guys dating them. So HAHA! What do you have to say now Abagond? I proved you wrong again.

    Here is her exact comment from her: “I agree with you. If black girls would clean up their acts then men would actually want them.”

    So now what? Am I racist for what another black women said? Face it, I’m right and you guys are ignorant. Blacks and whites are both on my side. I mean what does it take too prove my point? You won’t listen to me nor other blacks that stand up for what I’m talking about. Maybe it was just the fact she was actually intelligent unlike you guys.


  5. To Mike:

    So now what? Am I racist for what another black women said? Face it, I’m right and you guys are ignorant. Blacks and whites are both on my side. I mean what does it take too prove my point?

    Mike, that’s a logical fallacy. (as is some of the other side of the discussion..) Just because one black woman on youtube has this opinion doesn’t validate your position.


  6. To Uncle Milton: It’s just the fact of the matter that were not racists because we say we don’t like ghetto black chicks. We don’t like ghetto white chicks either. It’s the culture. And now, I have confirmation from the girl on YouTube even admitting this. So it just enforces my point more. So if I’m racist than she must be racist too? Even though she is black? That’s how foolish Abagond sounds.


  7. mike – ghetto black chicks

    I do hope that you know that this is a stereotype right?


  8. To Mike:

    So if I’m racist than she must be racist too? Even though she is black?

    I suspect Abagond might file her under the “rented negro” or brainwashed category. The reality is that in every instance of human history there have been people who identified/sided with their conquerors.

    A famous example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malinche

    That doesn’t mean this woman falls into this category but it is a component of the human experience.


  9. No, it’s just fact that she was actually intelligent in what she was saying. Alot of the racist blacks are the ones living on welfare and in prison. The more intelligent ones like Condoleza Rice and such would admit to such a thing.

    To Tereasa: And that’s a stereotype classifying whites as 95% racist. When will you people understand? It’s like I’m fight with little kids. You just can’t admit defeat.

    Well anyways, to all the blacks who are not ignorant such as the ones on this website, I commemorate you!!! I praise the blacks that admit to double-standards and such. So to all my educated blacks, I hope we get past racism and we can start being unified. We just have to erase the racist whites and blacks on this site.


  10. To all my black brothers and sisters, do not let Abagond start a race war. That’s what he wants. He’s trying to stir up conflict by making risky topics and false accusations. He’s not even black –he’s white. So don’t let him speak for you!

    This site is making whites more frustrated at blacks, not less. So demand he takes this topic down and lets talk about being unified! Like how we came together to elect President Obama!

    Hallelujah hallelujah!! “Free at last, Free at last!”


  11. mike,
    why don’t you try to learn something from the other people on this blog instead of trying to prove (really badly too) that everything you say is right. i’ve learned a lot from these posts and the comments, you could too..


  12. At least I have information to back me up. All you have is your own opinion lalala!


  13. and you have completely missed what i was trying to say


  14. What am I supposed to learn? I learned that Rob Lindsay, Neoserviam, racerealist, and Kat all agree in what I’m saying. I’ve learned that a girl on YouTube supports what I’m saying. I’ve definitely learned, learned that I’m right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  15. mike – ghetto black chicks

    I do hope that you know that this is a stereotype right?

    For Chrissake, ghetto Blacks and ghetto Black chicks is not a stereotype. I live around a bunch of pretty ghetto Black people right here, and there’s way more elsewhere in this town. You think they don’t exist? Why don’t you come down here and meet some of these nonexistent people.

    The truth is that Blacks are split into two vast groups – ghetto or Underclass and something like assimilated or “middle class”. There is also a lot of movement in between and back and forth and a lot of folks that has some degree of both. And “Ghetto/Underclass” is more than anything else a value system, not a zip code.

    What Mike is saying, and I agree, is that the more “Ghetto” the Black woman, the less we like her. The more “assimilated”, the better.

    It’s beyond me why this sort of thing is seen outside the realm of conversation.

    I think it’s really unfair that this Therese continues to bash me for innocently using the word “mulatto” when I had no idea at all it was offensive. I apologized and said I would not use it again, but she continues to beat me with it and uses it as proof that I’m an evil racist.

    Therese is an example of why I’m so leery about Black women these days. They accuse of feeding stereotypes about them, but those very stereotypes are so amply displayed by them in these very threads. These women are so angry, mean, vicious, cruel, hateful and hostile towards us White men that no sane White man would dare to go near them. Who could blame us?

    I’ve dated many Asian women and been around many times more. “China doll” isn’t a stereotype. They really are more submissive and feminine.

    It’s normal to expect femininity or even submissiveness (meaning just femininity really) in a female. Men want this. Femininity is a woman’s natural role. So many Black women seem to have thrown it out the door in favor of unbridled aggression that one wonders why any man would give them the time of day.


  16. at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black.

    Indeed, I’m completely open to dating SE Asians, NE Asians, Hispanics, Arabs, East Indians…what else is there?

    It’s Black women I have some issues with and I’m not even sure if I want to deal with them anymore after being involved with some.

    Excellent point, myname. You hit it on the head.


  17. I am only up to comment #9, but I just want to say to mike that when you talk to Condoleezza Rice about ghetto black chicks I want to be there. Or at least put it on YouTube.

    Thank you.


  18. mike:

    I agree with Uncle Milton: just because one black girl on YouTube agrees with you does not make it true. There must be some Latin name for that sort of logical fallacy.

    Also: People who agree with us often seem surprisingly intelligent. Just so you know.

    That YouTube girl might be brainwashed but probably not rented – unless someone is paying her to agree with white people, which I doubt from the sounds of it.

    You like to quote black people back at me, but you can find black people who hold all sorts of opinions. Those who agree with white people most of the time and do it well get their books published and get to talk on television. I call them Rented Negroes. Amy Holmes, as beautiful as she is, is one. So is John McWhorter, even though I like some of his books.


  19. I am laughing so hard, my tummy hurts.


  20. mike:

    If I am white, why would I want a race war? Am I like from Stormfront and this whole blog is reverse reverse psychology or something? At least make sense.


  21. Robert Lindsay:

    Therese is an example of why I’m so leery about Black women these days. They accuse of feeding stereotypes about them, but those very stereotypes are so amply displayed by them in these very threads. These women are so angry, mean, vicious, cruel, hateful and hostile towards us White men that no sane White man would dare to go near them. Who could blame us?

    Well you come here with all your racist stereotypes about angry black women, then black women get upset at you and then you say, “See, I was right!” Come on.


  22. Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.

    Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.

    What racist stereotypes? That Black women are aggressive? Why is that a racist stereotype? Isn’t it true that on average and as a group, they are more aggressive? Why is that even debatable?

    It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?


  23. To Abagond:

    There must be some Latin name for that sort of logical fallacy.

    Probably Argumentum Ad Verecundium. Basically supporting ones argument with an improper authority.


  24. Here’s where I come in again to completely destroy you guys with facts and quotes again. And no, one black women does not make a difference on YouTube, but I have watched several videos from YouTube with blacks agreeing with whites.

    For example, there was this one video on YouTube with a black Jamaican girl saying she was very disappointed with her black comrades in America. She was basically saying the same thing we were. She was saying how the way black Americans act does not represent the good Africans out there. I watched this awhile ago, so I never saved it. But I could probably find it again, although it would be hard.

    Also here is a quote from a Filipino on yahoo questions when a black guy said all whites are racist.
    “I am Filipino and I do want to answer this question. Whites are not all racist, only some of them, same does apply to every race in the world. You know, racism would only stop if we would have the ability to understand our similarities and differences, the ability to give mutual respect and the ability to not have a generalized mind. I respect every person out there and I am against racism! Peace!”

    seems to me that even Asians back up whites in agreeing that all whites are not racist, and that every single culture in the world is racist at one another. And this does include blacks.

    So what’s my point? This generalizing has to stop. This is nothing but a black supremist site trying to fuel racial tension.

    None of you have a defense against me. Give me more time tomorrow and Ill find you additional 5 quotes and more videos on YouTube with blacks supporting whites.

    Like I said before, I commemorate the blacks that realize these double-standards. To all of these educated, civilized blacks, what we need to do is do a genocide against racism. We need to exterminate black supremacists on this site (Abagond and his few followers) and racist whites (skin heads, nazis, KKK, etc).

    Does anybody on this website actually thing this website is progressing us towards racial equality? Where is Abagonds topic: 50% of whites voted for Obama? I volunteered in Monroe to help Obama and the majority of volunteers were whites. 4:1 ratio. Where is all the information information?

    Or where is: South Africans at an alarming rate are slaughtering white farmers and raping the women? It’s all over the news. Look it up on YouTube. Last time I checked, that was called genocide.

    Abagond has biased topics with no facts. Only his personal assessment. So if this racism will ever end, we need to exterminate radicals like Abagond.


  25. You didn’t have to make a whole new post just to admit that you were wrong.


  26. I can’t discern what Mike is trying to say. Thus, it’s impossible to respond.

    Agabond’s post on this topic paints with broad, somewhat stereotypical generalizations. This is the case with many of Agabond’s posts about the attitudes of white people toward blacks. As a result of his choice to frame his posts thus, the posts will contain kernels of truth while at the same time be exposed to countless individual exceptions.

    The WM/BW pairing does remain a sort of “final frontier” in the United States with respect to bi-racial relationships. Even here in my northern Prairie metro, known by some as IR central, you don’t see a lot of WM/BW couples.

    There are multiple factors affecting this. Among them is the well known tendency among some BW to reject WM as partners or mates out of a sense of principal, which has effect of deterring many WM from making advances toward any BW.

    However, I do agree with Agabond that also among these factors is racism manifest as the failure of WM to view BW as possible partners or mates. For example, as a WM with a history of dating BW, I can attest that, especially in my 20’s, I endured many disgusting frat-boy type lewd inquiries to the effect of: “So, what’s it like?” “It” being “sex with a BW.” As if “it” is any different than sex with any other woman, but that’s beside the point. The point is that I know for a fact that there are many WM — not all but many — who view BW as some sort of exotic other, interesting perhaps for a fetish or fantasy but not as a co-equal life partner.

    At the same time, I do perceive that this dynamic is changing, beginning with my generation. I think one catalyst of this change has been the dramatic increase in the number of BW on college campuses beginning in the late 1970’s or early 1980s.

    This appears to be trickling down to high school and younger, and it is now showing up in popular entertainment directed toward young people. For example, the other day my third grade daughter was watching an episode of “True Jackson, V.P.,” the Nickelodeon sitcom starring Keke (“Akela and the Bee”) Palmer. In this episode, we saw True (Keke) having a steamy hug/almost kiss with a cute male co-star — a cute, white male co-star.


  27. By the way, white boys, as to the dick size thing, if you’re going to date BW you have to become comfortable with the reality that most of their prior experiences will have been with BM, meaning that any comparing in that department will involve comparing your rig with the equipment owned by the BM who preceded you. Mother nature was aiight to me in that dep’t and I’ve not had issues if you know what I’m saying, but each man needs to take the measure of that issue for himself.


  28. on Fri 27 Mar 2009 at 14:28:59 mynameisnyname

    So, Blanc2, a lot of you white men truly see black men as being more masculine and well endowed than you?


  29. Hi all!

    I have been following this post and the oodles of comments that have been posted for a while and I just have to say something. Not anything hurtful but something to steer us back to the main topic.
    As a middle class, drama free, masters degree having, cultured, loving, so sweet I would probably rot your teeth out, honest woman who just so happens to be black, reading these comments I have experienced everything from ROTFL to nausea.

    In my opinion, the problem comes down to choices. Black women who are perhaps not as worldly, educated, who may come off as aggressive, have made their choice about who they want to date, procreate with, and marry. Sorry guys who are of non-black background, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think these women would be interested in you either. I know, I know…gutting. :)

    Anyway, my concern is for the other group of us women of color, black women in particular. Those of us who have our acts together, worked hard all of our lives to play it straight, play by the rules, got the education, have great jobs, love football games and international travel, etc., who are sitting without a mate because of this ridiculous idea of how all black women are. A person would not use a sweeping judgment like that to describe all white women.
    Because of generalizations like this black women who are used to choosing her route in life by way of job, or religion, or friends or education, suddenly CANNOT choose from the plethora of wonderful, talented, sweet, sexy, honest men of ALL colors she sees every day. Where pretty much everyone else has a God given right to choose his or her mate, most black women do not have that luxury because of the reputation that proceeds us.

    mike, Robert Lindsey, etc., I don’t expect anyone to date or marry a person who they really don’t want to be with regardless of color, and neither do the people who oppose your views. But as long as there are women like me (and there are a whole lot of us, open your eyes!) who are the exact opposite of what has been stated in comments on this post then you are just adding fuel to the fire.
    To the men out there, don’t be afraid of black women. We are just like any other woman out there…just with better skin… :)
    Have a great weekend, y’all


  30. Good comment. That is the thing about stereotypes.


  31. Blanc2 said in an otherwise excellent comment (NOT the one about dick size!):

    Agabond’s post on this topic paints with broad, somewhat stereotypical generalizations. This is the case with many of Agabond’s posts about the attitudes of white people toward blacks. As a result of his choice to frame his posts thus, the posts will contain kernels of truth while at the same time be exposed to countless individual exceptions.

    That is just what a generalization is – true for most but not for all. There are very few interesting statements you can make that apply to all 200 million white Americans (or whatever the number is now), but there are many that you can make that apply to, or at least seem to apply to, 60% or more of them.

    I find it a bit maddening that white people pick at my generalizations but then let the stereotypes of Robert Lindsay and others slide right on by without a word.


  32. Robert Linsday said:

    Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.

    Point to a comment on this blog made by a black woman and please tell us what you found scary about it. Or one where she was angry for no good reason.


  33. Robert Lindsay also said (even worse):

    Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.

    Please tell me where on this blog you saw these endless comments about the small penis size of white men.

    I do not remember them, but maybe I forget. I think you are projecting your own insecurities onto black women.


  34. Robert Linsday said later in that same comment:

    It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?

    How come you never hear a white guy say he will not date white women because he has had bad experiences with them?

    If a string of white women had used you for your money would you think they did it “because they are white”? Or would you think you just had a string of bad luck or that you need better judgement in picking your next date?

    You are applying your bad experiences to a whole race. But you do not do that to your own race because you know it is not that simple. You know there are good white women and bad white women and everything in between. Black women are no different.


  35. mynameismyname said in comment #2:

    That Columbia study about race and dating was what it was, but it wasn’t complete. And like you, the idea that men don’t see race when it comes to women is only partially correct…at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black. Do you agree, Aba?

    Yes, I agree. The Columbia study was just one study and, as it was, it did not have enough blacks in it. I think white men do care about a woman’s race when the race in question is black and when the issue is marriage or even a serious relationship.


  36. mnimn: The stereotype of BM being well endowed is infused into certain elements of American pop culture. It’s not an issue for me personally, but I do believe that it is something that lurks in the minds of at least some WM.


  37. Honestly, I don’t think that stereotypes really have that much of an effect after you meet someone. Most people are reasonable enough to judge each person on their individual merits. I think we can all tell within the first minute whether you’re angry uneducated, and obnoxious or sweet, cultured, and drama free. In fact, we can often figure it out beforehand by your appearance and body language. If you’re my type, and I’m your type, we’ll probably hit it off. Unfortunately, if you’re a liberal who listens to hip-hop/R&B/soul, watches Tyler Perry movies, and goes to church on Sunday, you’re probably not my type. That’s just me though, and I know there are plenty of white guys out there who like at least some of those things. If you like Ron Paul, theater, Richard Linklater, and alt-rock then I’ll certainly give you a chance because you’re one in a million!

    This leads to another reason why white men and black women don’t often end up together. In many instances white people and black people have separate cultures, and both groups practice self-segregation. At my theater groups, there are rarely any black patrons (and a dearth of other single straight men as well, fortunately for me). There are plenty of black actors in the shows, and not just in the “traditionally” black roles. In my area, it seems like blacks and hispanics flock to the dance clubs, while many white people like myself prefer a cozy bar with maybe some live folk or rock music.

    Even when blacks and whites are in the same venue, the groups still tend to be segregated. As a white man, it’s awkward to approach a group of four or five black (or hispanic or asian) people and try to insinuate oneself into the conversation. It’s much easier to approach a woman of color when she’s in a mixed group because you don’t feel like a foreign intruder. If I see a black and a hispanic woman talking to each other, I feel like the inter-racial “common ground” has already been established, and I’m not going to disrupt a “black” conversation.

    Let me relate a little personal anecdote. When I was in high school, one of my closest friends was a black girl. She would often fawn over shirtless pictures of super-ripped black celebrities. Thus, as an average white guy, and generally oblivious at that time, it never really registered that I might be her type. When I confided in her that I had a crush on another girl, she threw a hissy fit. Maybe she thought I was racist, though she never said it, but honestly I was just responding to the cues she gave me. It didn’t help that she had acne and some other undesirable traits.

    I have friends of all colors, and one other thing I’ve noticed is that while many of my asian and hispanic friends seem to bend over backwards to introduce me to their sisters/cousins/nieces, none of my black friends ever have. I’m not going to speculate about why that is, because I don’t want to generalize based on my own experience. However, I would be interested to know if others have observed a similar phenomenon.

    Anyway, lots of random thoughts there. I should add that I object to some of what you’ve written in this post such as that a hundred posts from white men ended up proving that white men are racist. At most, they proved that 2 or 3 white men on the internet are racist, which is not surprising in the comment section of your original racially-charged post. Basically it’s the same idea that I objected to in your first post, which is that you extrapolated your interpretation of events that you’ve witnessed into a generalization about all white men. In doing this, you greatly oversimplify a complex social phenomenon and insult about a third of the US population.


  38. Celia – Thank yu for your well written comment. Stereotypes might work for Marketing groups but in choosing a mate are dumb. Evone – dear friend of mine is a BM from cuba. When we first met he assumed I was a white suburban soccer mom. After three years of friendship I am still shaking his preconceived ideas about me. And He teachs me about preconceived ideas as well. As do all my friends. Its just best to never assume anything about a person these days.

    abagond – “Good comment. That is the thing about stereotypes.” You miss the gold among the kernals of sand…this goes both ways.

    About the WM – Small errr man member thing…it is a prevelent stereotype that BMs are larger. This belief is strengthed by certain IR cucolding fetishes and Mandango fetishes. But like all stereotypes its not exactly accurate all the time. Some WM might think a BM is more endowed but not care. Oddly enough – when I am stopped on the street by BMs and complimented…once I thank them politely for the compliment and try to move on they will ask if I am married. I will say yes. They ask if he is white…I say yes. Then they almost always ask me if he can satisfy me. ITs a very odd invasive question – but its asked alot. So its not just WM believing BM are larger…BM also put forth the idea that only they can completely satisfy a women. Which is a bit odd since…well it aint ALL about that particular piece of equipment boys. I know you think its the star attraction to the event but…its just a player…maybe a key player..but still a member of the team.


  39. Lynette – does this mean that if a smart, beautiful educated Black Women with a Ph.D were to meet a man who makes her happy, makes her laugh and he happens to be a white, male jiffy lube tech – that she should marry him?

    What if he is a white male PhD?

    Should we date and marry people who makeus feel good about ourselves and make us happy? Why shoud skin color even be a factor.

    My sisters husband and mine have more IN common that not. They are both good loving intelligent men, they are both cops, they both love motorcycles, they both are wonderful fathers, and on and on. one happens to be black and one white…but that doesnt matter. They are brothers…


  40. editorial note: I ment – “that she shouldnt marry him?”


  41. “Therefore, I was taught to love my whiteness at a very early age. I never felt as though I had to go out of my way to meet men of different ethnicities. I was comfortable being sought after by men of my race who also understood the White experience.

    Again, I don’t have anything against women who choose to date outside their race; however, I do see White men as the cream of the crop. They are just my preference, as well as the preference of the White women in my circle.”

    Is this statement, then, equally acceptable to you?


  42. Good, I agree that everyone has the right to choose their own preferences. However, the altered statement I posted above would be labeled racist by many.


  43. ceilidh71,
    Thanks for your insightful, intelligent, comment. You have made one of the MOST CONSTRUCTIVE comments on this topic so far. You are CORRECT to point out that there are MORE educated, successful, cultured, intelligent, beautiful BW in the culutre than the ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS want to admit. They would rather continue to promote LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES THAT TRASH THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW than deal with the FACT that BW are as good as any other race of women and are WORTHY of being pursued for SERIOUS dating and/or marriage relationships like any other race of women.

    abagond,
    One important fact that studies regarding IRR’s involving BW don’t mention is that there are cultural differences within various groups of BW that affect their attitudes toward IRR’s.
    In my life experience in America, I have known MANY NON-AFRICAN AMERICAN BW (Afro Latinas, African BW, Caribbean BW, etc. ) and SOME AFRICAN AMERICAN BW who have ALWAYS been OPEN TO/INTERESTED IN IRR’S WITH WM/NON-BM. BW are not responsible for the lower number OF WM/BW couples as compared to other IRR’S. After all, IRR’s in America were legalized as a result of a WM/BW couple (THE LOVINGS) in the early 60’s.
    The fact is that (though many try to deny it but can be seen on this post) the MAIN OBSTACLE BW have faced/continue to face to serious dating and/or marriage relationships with WM/NON-BM are their ANTI-BW COWARDICE AND/OR RACIST ANTI-BW TENDEDENCIES. In America, MOST (NOT ALL) WM/NON-BM will pursue serious dating and/or marriage relationships with ANY NON-WW as long as she isn’t a BW.

    ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS,
    When MANY WM/non-BM (who claim to be attracted to BW) CONTINUE TO CHOOSE TO INTERACT WITH them IN A DIFFERENT (cowardly, racist) way than they do with other NON-WW, they send the message that they consider BW lesser women and our beauty to be less worthy of appreciation/pursuit than that of other NON-WW.
    As a result, BW continue to pay AN UNFAIR HIGH PRICE FOR BEING SINGLED OUT FOR DISCRIMINATORY TREATMENT FROM MANY OF THESE WM/NON-BM SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK. Not only is this type of ANTI-BW treatment from MANY OF THESE WM/NON-BM toward MANY BW DISGUSTING AND WRONG, IT SHOUDN’T STILL BE GOING ON IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

    THE MANY WM/non-BM who claim to be attracted to BW, but systematically treat them in a DISCRIMINATORY MANNER, are to blame for making it more difficult for BW TO form SERIOUS dating and/or marriage relationships with WM/NON-BM.

    BW are REAL WOMEN WITH REAL FEELINGS who are tired of constantly having our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY TRASHED BY ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS. BW will continue to speak out against you and DESTROY the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES you’re promoting.


  44. Laromana, you make the same mistake that a lot of “aggrieved” minorities make…

    thinking that “speaking out” loudly against white men will make us like you more.


  45. Honestly I don’t care why people would think that my version of your statement is racist. Either neither is racist, or both are. I can understand people who think they are racist, and I understand people who think they are not. But people who would single out one or the other are guilty of either inconsistency or hypocrisy.


  46. i think people should be taught to love themselves period. What if your a women whose father is black and mother white (like my niece). Reading some statements by BW she would feel less than perfect. I want her to embrass her black roots and be proud of them. Thus the trips to see the Gees Bend quilts etc. I also want her to know about her scottish, german and american indian roots. She must be allowed to embrace and love every part of her. not just her black half or her white half.

    I have problems with your statement” I do see Black men as the cream of the crop” Because it encompasses so many man it makes it a throw away statement. I have near and dear BM friends who I believe are the cream of the cop of men…standing side by side with WM friends.

    I know BM and WM who are horrible jack asses that I wouldnt wish on my worst female enemy. A man is not better because of the color of his skin. Thats like saying “women with DDs are the cream of the crop” or “women under 130 lbs are the cream of the crop.” white men are not better than BM. BM no better than WM. there ARE some BMs who are better than some WMs. And their are WMs better than some BMs. but not all X are better than all Y – that never holds true.

    It is valid to prefer someone who comes from a similar background as you – because they have things in common…i.e. russian immigrants living together in a community, japan town etc. But to say any man is the tops because of race alone is ridiculous.

    But then – I find the amazing rich deep chocolate skin tones with godlen hues beautiful. I also love the soft peach skin tone of a scottish lass, the red undertones of my welsh husband, the ivory skin of my asian friend. I can not imagine choosing a mate by skin color alone…thats like only liking daisys.


  47. I agree with some of the other comments. Stereotypes and negative perceptions of BW are affecting them when it comes to dating/marriage.
    This was a topic on Tyra Banks show this week.
    There was a young BW on there that felt due to bad perceptions of BW, that no one wanted her. Whether it was BM LM AM WM.
    The 2 groups who usually suffer from negative stereotypes are BW & AM.


  48. i agree with laramona. the fact that people want to blame black women because of white men don’t want them because of how they act is ignorant. mike and robert lindsay, both of you are ignorant and generalizing black women as being ghetto, loud, pushy, anything that’s negative when you don’t know EVERY BLACK WOMAN IN AMERICA. we are human beings just as much as any other women of races. yes there are ghetto black women but there are eduacted black women, loving black women, caring black women and so much more but the fact you come up here bashing and assuming that black women are the same just shows how much of a racist you really are. if someone calls you that, you get mad and claim you’re not. i think that’s what abagond meant when some whites are called a racist, they get defensive. i bet if i came up here dissing black men and talking negatively about them, that would make me a racist because i’m disrespecting my own race and own men. i came from a black man and yes there are some bad ones out there that don’t do the right thing but i also see the good in them and the positive side to it. it’s funny to me how ignorant people think they know everything about someone else’s race because of what they see when they don’t even know everybody. mike, maybe the girl you talk to on youtube is probably brainwashed and stupid herself. i’ve seen plenty of white men that want black women regardless of what she looks like and how she acts. my aunt is married to a white man so to say that white men don’t black women is b.s to me. why not get to know a black woman and see how she is before you start assuming she’s just a ghetto, aggressive person because of your experience? and i don’t believe that abagond is trying to start any race war at all. he say what he felt about why white men marry black women without offending anyone. it seems that mike and robert lindsey are the ones who were offended and are making it into a race war. lastly, i think people who love someone for who they are regardless of what race they are. at the end of the day we’re all people.


  49. Are there really so few WM marrying BW? Check out Baltimore Inner Harbor. It’s interracial-city there.


  50. Abagond,
    I think it’s important to note that ANY MAN who claims to be interested in IRR’s with BW MUST HAVE the BASIC INTELLIGENCE to FIRST see her has a HUMAN BEING WORTHY OF RESPECT. If he CAN’T/WON’T do this, he has NO BUSINESS interacting with BW.


  51. Based on your angry tone towards white men and your excessive use of capital letters, I would suggest that you are not worthy of my respect.


  52. Great post Ababgond.

    It’s hard to find a white man that likes black women AND isn’t racist (or have preconceived notions about black people in general).

    To be honest I’d rather be a lesbian. *Paging Alice Walker*


  53. I haven’t posted in like two days, but Lynette’s comment is racist. She said that she would only date black men because she loves her blackness.

    What does the black community have to say about that? =/

    This right here proves the sad reason why white men are notdating black women. Case proved and all of yah have nothin to argue.


  54. Even if you think Lynette’s comment is “racist”, you have to respect her for being forthright and reasonable. Most of the comments on this page reek of degenerate stupidity or ignorance.


  55. This is to everyone.

    Oh and don’t tell me I have no experience with black women. One thing I can tell you is that black women like me. Do you know how many black women have said that I have the prettiest eyes? At least like 20. Do you know how many black women have said I’m good looking? Like 10. There also have been 3-4 black women who have asked me out with me hardly talking to them. Also, there have been several more that flirt me and show interest.

    I remember there was this one really attractive black girl that asked me out… and all the men probably wished they had her. In the end, I didn’t end up dating her. Other black men were telling me not too. Maybe they were mad or jealous.


  56. To lil vina: The girl on Youtube was very intelligent. Don’t give me that brainwashed shit either. They weren’t brainwashed by aliens you scifi fuck. Also, you want me to find you like 5 videos or more on youtube with blacks supporting whites? Cause I can that kid? Educated blacks support whites. FACT. Ghetto blacks living off welfare and in prison blame whitey for everything. FACT. So, quit being ignorant and get passed your old racist views.


  57. After having read all of the comments and of course
    the post itself. I’m sort of at a loss as to what to
    say. There’s so much wrong with the many, many
    statements put up here. That said, this is going to
    be a long post. I might as well put a tl;dr. You can find it at the end.

    I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for
    black women other than black women themselves. I
    don’t particularly believe that any one study or any
    one person can put down the exact reason why it
    “seems” that black women and white men don’t date
    each other.

    I do agree with a lot of the comments that black
    women are dehumanized by the society we live in,
    even by our own culture. Personally, I have
    experienced several factors that would usually be
    enough to stop anyone for attempting to date a while
    man.

    1. My Parents made fun of me as a child for having
    non-black friends.
    — It’s safe to say that if I were to have a date
    with anyone outside of my race, they’d make fun of
    me for it. This hurts more than anyone could
    imagine. It makes me feel like there’s something
    wrong with me because I don’t exclusively like black
    men.

    2. White men are afraid of me.
    — It’s true, I’ve only had two encounters with
    white guys who have wanted to date me. This was only
    after they’d been my friend for upwards of 3 months.
    That means that they had to get to know me and shake
    all of the stereotypes that our society has set up.
    We did not have a long term relationship at all,
    because even after all of that they still decided I
    was a piece of meat, albeit a more obtainable one
    than those ‘scary’ black women that the media
    confronts them with left and right. I ended up
    breaking it off in a matter of days.
    –But, I did get the chance to ask them when they
    started liking me. The answer between them: I
    thought you were gorgeous when I first saw you, but
    I was scared you didn’t like white guys, and that
    you were not going to be easy to get along with.

    3. I’m not who you take home to mom.
    — At least that’s what it seems like they think. I
    have to try twice as hard to seem just as nice as
    any other girl of any other race. Why? Because
    immediately they think I’m a girl who narrowly
    escaped the projects, and that obviously I’m bad.
    — Guy’s moms do not like me at first sight. I can
    spill my credentials all day long (yes I’m a virgin,
    yes I can cook, yes I am intelligent) but there’s
    always this underlying tone of, she’s black,
    something about her is just wrong.

    4. I’m not really a human being to them, more of a
    novelty.
    –The things I do that would seem cute and endearing
    when exhibited in a woman of ANY other race seem
    strange and hilarious coming from me.
    –They justify not wanting to date me because I’m
    not intelligent like white women are. But… my
    intelligence ranks among the top one percentile in
    the nation. I just don’t have the money to actually
    go to top colleges. (There’s more than tuition in
    getting to school)
    —-The truth is that they don’t take me seriously
    until they realize that I can outwit them. Once I
    can do that, I become some strange and intimidating
    anomaly.

    5. I’m intimidating.
    –What I am: a sensitive, shy, pacifist, vegetarian.
    who doesn’t even squish spiders.
    –What white guys (as well as AM, MEM, HM, etc.) see:
    Tall, strong, angry, vicious, ghetto, proud, snobby.

    6. Penis Envy
    –I’m a virgin, but those two encounters mentioned
    above both told me that they were worried that they
    were too small to satisfy me. Then came the awkward
    conversation where I mentioned that I was in the v-
    club and intended to stay that way until marriage,
    for personal reasons, and that I really didn’t have
    an inner penis catalogue.

    7. White Women are inherently better.
    — Let’s just beat this dead horse again, for kicks
    and giggles.
    — A guy may go one and on for days about the
    qualities in a good woman, and I may fit most of
    them, but if I’m up against a white girl who’s known
    to be promiscuous and disloyal, who only uses men
    for money, who’s as false and granny’s teeth, and
    who is by no means the sharpest tool in the shed…
    I’m out of the running. Because even a white gutter
    slut is better than a black woman in America.

    8. There are alternatives to Jungle fever.
    — Why not date a nice, sweet Asian girl? They are
    smart! Or even a middle eastern girl? She’ll
    definitely be modest, and have lovely recipes!
    Perhaps if you’re looking for a nice curvy body you
    should try a Latina. Really son, there’s no reason
    for you to go insane. Are you trying to rebel
    against us? Don’t bring a black girl into this
    house! I don’t want none of that ghetto bullshit
    around my family.

    Now, I’m in no way making generalizations about why
    the connections between black women and white men.
    This is just what’s happened to me so far. They
    might help to clue you in on some of the reasons.

    And it’s not all the white people’s fault. If I
    remember correctly, a comment posted about not being
    attracted to any one but Black Kings. There’s
    nothing wrong with that. But is it truly necessary
    to shout it from the rooftops until every man in
    America thinks that every black woman he meets is
    looking down on him for being non-black? Is it
    really that bad for a black woman to be attracted to
    men outside of her race?

    Honestly, let’s think about the Black King argument.

    If it is only proper for a black woman(queen) to
    like a black king, then won’t a large portion of us
    be out of luck? Generally speaking, it’s hard to
    find a good man in any race, and even fewer that
    will meet your own needs. I admit, there are some
    amazing black guys out there. They make great
    friends, but they are not my type. Oh no, I’m being
    too picky for my own good. I should just ‘get over
    myself’ and go out with this king. Right? Because
    that’s the rule, right? Good black women must date
    good black men. Bad black women end up with bad
    black men.

    But of course there’s no way for a normal black
    woman, who’s PROUD(!) of her race to be even
    minutely attracted to the most beautiful of non-
    black men.

    The Truth: Most women can and are attracted to men
    from every race. It’s our culture that tells us we
    aren’t supposed to be, or that said race is an
    unobtainable dream. Therefore we push it out of our
    mind and stay in the boundaries that cause the least
    social pain.

    — A side note: We can also find men of our own race
    to be ugly. That’s not to say that women who like
    men from other races hate their own. No, we have
    eyes just like men. There are some features that we
    like, some that we don’t. That means we can like one
    black guy, a white guy, a middle eastern guy, and a
    Hispanic guy, but also think that another man from
    each race is as ugly as dirt. Women have the right
    to be discerning about their attraction.

    And a question: Why is it that people are so quick
    to point out ghetto black women? What about white
    trash?
    –Oh yes, I went there. Those strange second cousins
    that white people like to hide in the closet and
    pretend that they don’t exist? Well, they do. I can
    make a safe bet that if a black woman grows up and
    is exposed to white trash and other ideas of
    rednecks (real or otherwise), then she may not find any attraction to white people.

    But of course that’s no real reason, because hicks
    are just there to amuse us. They are no real threat.
    It’s the people from the projects that should be
    worrisome.

    There are plenty of other things to say about this matter. But I’m sure I’ve agitated whoever deigned to read this enough for one post.

    TL;DR: Don’t try to bottle every black woman and
    white man into that little spectrum you call
    scientific reason. There’s lots of reasons, no
    amount of ‘study’ or hearsay will ever lay down the
    law on the supposed incompatibility between black
    women and white men.

    Might as well put my credentials: Black woman.


  58. I agree with Erin. There’s no study that says why white men don’t date black women. Also, she admitted comments like the African King are reasons why white men will not date black women. She even said her parents hated her to have nonblack friends.

    She, she is educated unlike the other black supremacists on this site, like Abagond. Guess what Erin, Ababgond is gonna call you a “rented black” for agreeing with some of the comments white people said.

    I hope her comment enlightens the black people on this site (ABAGOND)


  59. We still don’t know if whether Abagond is black or white though. He won’t say whether he is or isn’t. I honestly believe he is a white person trying to stir up racial tension by speaking for the black community. I don’t know though.


  60. I disagree, mike. I think abagond is a white man trying to feel superior by convincing himself that every white man but him is an angry, misogynist racist.


  61. Aww, Lynette… your PhD is in African-American studies or some such nonsense? I have lost a lot of respect for you. I was hoping your doctorate was in a legitimate field of study.


  62. Erin, I read your whole post and it sounds like you’ve been hurt. I’m sorry. The truth is that the world is expansive. Relationships are complex. Don’t think that the people you have met in your life represent all of the people in the world.

    Which leads me to something you said:
    “I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for black women other than black women themselves”

    This is just wrong. NO ONE should be able to speak for anyone but THAT PERSON. Period. I am a white man. I cannot and will not try to speak for all white men. No matter how much you think you are “connected” to your social group, or that your experience is “typical”, the truth is that you cannot speak for anyone but yourself. Generalizing about your own race/sex/religion is just as idiotic as generalizing about someone else’s.


  63. Sorry Lynette, I didn’t consider that. I retract and regret my previous statement. I hope you can forgive me for jumping to that conclusion, I am still reeling in disappointment from reading Michelle Obama’s thesis.


  64. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 22:36:35 mynameisnyname

    “Mike” and “Racerealist”,

    Why does it matter so much what Abagond’s “race” is? If you two are so progressive and unbiased, then why do you put people in boxes based on your perception of their race? If racism is a thing of the past then why do whites like you get so upset when someone simply points out current day racial inequality?

    Lynette,
    I appreciate your commentary. It’s a relief to read some geninunely intellectual thought to counter the low-brow commentary of others. Do you have a blog or any, other writings? I’d be interested in checking it out.


  65. I encourage all blacks to demand he removes these biased topics immediately. He’s racist and is trying to stir up racial tension. He is a white man speaking on behalf of the black community, to get whites frustrated. He then wants us frustrated whites to say even worse things to blacks. Then, before you know it, there is racial tension. I don’t if he’s doing it because he wants a race war, and this is his small part. I really don’t know.

    But he’s trying to slam whites with his biased views. And then he gets mad at us when we defend ourselves and prove him wrong.

    Where’s his topic : Whites and blacks come together to elect President Obama?

    Exactly. Don’t let him speak on your behalf. He’s either a black supremest or a white man in denial trying to speak for the black community.


  66. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 22:49:43 mynameisnyname

    Lynette,

    Unfortunately, I don’t have a blog either. Yet, I have published some articles in various local outlets. Perhaps, I can upload a few and share them with you.

    Out of curiosity, how does such an accomplished, intelligent woman deal with inane, blatant racist commentary like “Mike” and “Racial Realist”‘s?


  67. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 22:50:57 mynameisnyname

    Love the way “Mike” and his brethen ignored my question.

    Why does Aba’s “race” matter so much to you?


  68. Erin alone, proved my case and point.

    Lysette: If I recall, you said dating a black king. And you said you would only date black men because of your blackness. That is racist either way you look at it. And Erin proved my point.

    You specifically stated “race” was a factor in your choosing. Besides skin color and hair, there is no difference between black and white men. They have the same features.

    Stop loving somebody because of their blackness and love them because they are kind and respect you. That one comment just made me lose respect for you.


  69. Hold off kid, you haven’t even given me a minute to speak. I don’t deny the fact that Lysette is intelligent. She has a PHD and seems knowledgeable. That fact is though, she still made a racist comment above. I don’t think it was on purpose, however, it did offend me.

    Let’s put it this way. Would she say the same comment on FOX news to America? No, she wouldn’t. Because she would be afraid of losing her job and being labeled as a racist.


  70. If you wouldn’t say it on television to the world while exposing your face, then it’s probably something that would offend others.


  71. Lynette – I was not offended by your position…people become way to offended and emotional on these blogs. Yours is just an interesting perspect that I had not considered. I am a huge fan of males in general – i find beauty in all races…and just dont believe I should limit myself.


  72. And yes, Abagonds race does matter. He is either two things. A black supremest or a white who thinks he is above other whites.

    If he is black, then he definitely is a black supremest. If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5” who is not racist.


  73. Why do you keep calling me racist? What have I ever said that is racist?


  74. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 23:05:34 mynameisnyname

    Lynette never said that she dislikes men of other races. She simply said that she loves and appreciates men who look like her father, her brother, her uncle, etc. She has love for black men in a nation that doesn’t. What’s the crime in that? At the end of the day, black women are the only people who truly respect a black man. The whites on her are trying to twist around what she said, aimlessly trying to measure your racism up to Lynette’s geniune ethnic self-pride.


  75. Re: mike

    I don’t think it’s racist for a woman to say that she prefers black men, for whatever reason. People are entitled to their own preferences. Racism, by my definition, is pre-judging or assuming certain qualities about a person based on their racial background.


  76. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 23:07:43 mynameisnyname

    Again, Mike,

    According to you, racism is just in the mind of militant blacks, right? And there are no real differences between blacks and whites, right?

    So, why would it matter what Aba’s race is?

    Answer my question.


  77. No, it wouldn’t be racist if she said it in the same context that mynameismyname or racerealist said it.

    That’s fine if she respects black men. That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives.

    But she said she would only date black men, no other race. She said that was her preference. She said she would not date men outside of their blackness. She would only date black kings.

    That definitely sounds racist to me. Why would Erin also say it’s racist too? She’s black? What is she racist against her own race?

    I already told you why Abas race matters


  78. Abagonds race does matter. He is either two things. A black supremest or a white who thinks he is above other whites.

    If he is black, then he definitely is a black supremest. If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5%″ who is not racist. Who thinks he knows it all when I’ve owned him in every debate we’ve had


  79. Lynette – you said “I don’t understand the reason why any woman of any color would want to chase any man who is not interested. Anyway, it is very important for Black women to have self-love. I wrote an entire dissertation on African-American body image, and the pressures to assimilate comfortably into the White mainstream society. I think you would find it very interesting.”

    I agree. I don’t understand the reason why any woman of any color would want to chase any man who is not interested in them.

    dated alot of BMs in HS for that reason. They were the ones that approached me, hit on me and made me feel beautiful and good about myself. I dated mostly BMs up until I was beaten badly by three BW for dating a BM. I was told to stick to my own kind.

    Would love to read your disseratation. You might not realize that “white mainstream society’ leaves out alot of white women as well. Not that you need to address white womens problems. You are speaking to a select group that is over looked and I understand that. I do not fit with in mainstream in many ways. Abagonds blog has not only opened my eyes to many race issues, he has helped me find my own value and beauty (even though I am not they type of women he writes about, how he writes about them speaks to me).


  80. “That’s fine if she respects black men. That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives.

    But she said she would only date black men, no other race. She said that was her preference. She said she would not date men outside of their blackness. She would only date black kings.

    That definitely sounds racist to me. Why would Erin also say it’s racist too? She’s black? What is she racist against her own race?”

    The ‘kings’ comment could be perceived as a racial attitude, sure. But as you say, ‘That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives’. So if her relatives are black, and she only wants to date black men, that’s fine right?

    I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. If you go around trying to find racism, you will find it, real or perceived. When someone says something that, by your standards, is easy to explain without attributing racist attitudes, you should give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Sure, it will cut down on your ability to express self-righteous anger, but it also gives you the ability to distinguish between true racism and “potential” racism.


  81. To Racerealist: When I say dating men that look like here relatives I mean like height, weight, and features and personality. If her dad is a funny guy, than maybe she would want to find a funny black or white guy. If her dad is tall and muscular, than maybe she would want to date a tall and muscular black or white guy. If her Dad has strong masculine features, than maybe she would want to date a black or white man with strong masculine features. If her Dad has nice stright white teeth, than maybe she would want to date a black or white guy with a good smile and nice hygiene.

    When I refer to her family, I don’t mean skin color. Everybody wants to date someone like their family. I read studies where sons will date women similar to their mom. But it doesn’t mean race has to be involved.


  82. And Lysette. The only reason mynameismyname agrees with you is because he is a black supremest himself. He uses double-standards like no other. He doesn’t find your comment the least bit racist, but he finds Rob Lindsays comment racist about not wanting to date black women that are agressive and ghetto. He said he loved black women, but wouldn’t want to date one that was ghetto and loud. That was his preference too. But mynameismyname slammed him for racism.

    So if racerealist and mynameismyname do not find Lysettes comment racist, then you better admit you were using double-standards when saying Rob Lindsays comment is racist. Because he has his own preferences too. Agree?


  83. I don’t see why skin color is fundamentally different from height, muscularity, sense of humor, dental hygiene, et cetera in terms of personal taste.

    Race is a slightly different matter. Hypothetically, Halle Berry could be a very dark-skinned white and Anne Hathaway could be a very light-skinned black. I don’t think that would discourage black men who like black women from pursuing Halle Berry.

    But one would have to be intentionally oblivious to ignore the fact that there is a correlation between skin color and racial background.


  84. Everything I say is right. I research everything and pull up quotes. I’m not racist. I’m racist against people who are racist. That makes me sound racist sometimes.

    Racerealist and mynamameismyname, you guys are going to sound really stupid then if you don’t acknowledge Rob Linsays comment about not wanting to date ghetto black women. You guys slammed him for being racist when that is his preference.

    Man double-standards like no other. I know you guys are the type that can never be wrong, but you admit to it at some point. I’m never wrong because I reasearch everything and pull up quotes and videos.

    So come on racerealist and mynameismyname. Admit were quick to judge Rob Lindsay when he said that he liked black women, but not ghetto loud black women. Admit you guys used the typical double-standards.


  85. To Mike:

    “If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5%″ who is not racist.”

    I take it at face value that Abagond is white guy who is married to a black woman. I sincerely doubt he feels that he is better than most white folks.. but he apparently believes that his belief system regarding race is the correct path. I am pretty sure that people who have tried to convert me to Christianity didn’t think they were above me, on the contrary, several implied or outright stated they thought I was smarter than them. It often upset them that I couldn’t accept Jesus as the son of g-d. In a similar vein I think Abagond would be quite happy if a large majority of white people thought about race in the way he does. By the way, I don’t mean this as an insult to Christians or Abagond, there are merits, in my opinion, to some parts of Christianity as there are to some parts of Abagond reasoning but there are large parts of both that I find that don’t really jibe with my worldview or experience.


  86. If you find nothing racist about Lynettes comment on dating, then you must also agree that Rob Lindsays comment on dating was not racist either. Don’t give me that shit that his was more racist. He had a preference and he said it. He said he like black women and their features, but that he would never date a ghetto, loud black women. If that’s who wants to date, than that’s who he want’s to date. That doesn’t make him racist then.

    So what I do want? I want ignorant people like racerealist and mynameismyname to attest to the fact of using double-standards. To say her comment is not racist, is definitely to say Rob’s comment is not racist. How dare you harass him for that.

    Case proved and I’m right again. Just admit. I’m always fair in what I say. I hate all racism period –black and white.

    I’ve said it several times. Where the Abagond’s post: Blacks and white’s march together during MLK rally to preach equality.
    or: Whites and blacks elect President Obama


  87. mike: I don’t know what you’re referring to when you make claims about something I said regarding Robert Lindsay. He has his own blog which contains a lot of extreme opinions that I do not agree with. My problem with both you and abagond is that you both speak in absolutes. You both think that anyone who agrees with you is wise, and anyone who disagrees is a fool.

    What is the point of having a discussion if you’re not willing to listen to people who disagree with you? If you just want to broadcast your opinions to the world, write a book. The best quality of internet blogs is the ability for all kinds of people from around the world to contribute their perspective and learn from each other. If you come in believing that your point of view is all-encompassing and infallible, you’re missing out on a lot.

    As to the lack of posts about the many examples of racial unity in the USA – everyone who starts a blog has their own motives and agenda. If abagond wants to focus on schisms between the races, that’s his right. If you want to start a discussion about other subjects, make your own blog. I’m posting here to provide counter-arguments to the content of the blog, even though it seems like abagond and many of the other comment posters have completely closed their minds to conflicting ideas.


  88. anyone who has read this blog for longer than a week knows abagond is a BM – not that it matters…but he lives his life as a BM – looking out through HIS eyes. His life experiences color his opinions. He doesnt hide his race…read the about section on his collumn folks.


  89. “He doesnt hide his race…read the about section on his collumn folks.”

    Quote please. I don’t see it.


  90. Okay so I see West Indian now. That’s not quite the same as “black”, unless you define it very broadly.


  91. Mike: Abagond can call me what he likes, he’s entitled to his opinion. Also, I don’t believe anything I said proved your points. I was only relating personal experience. That Black Kings portion was not towards Lynette. It was hashing out a gripe against what I’ve been told all of my waking life. She’s entitled to her own attractions. That doesn’t make her racist.

    Lynette: Yes, I’m very very young. I admit that. I’ve only got 18 years under my belt, and so far most of my smarts is only in books. But, it’s not that I’m not strong and that I’m not proud of who I am. It’s just that these things don’t define how I’m attracted. Nor did I say it was wrong for you to like black men. I did say it was wrong for so many people to tout it as being the only proper option for black women to pursue.That was not a personal attack on you, but Black Kings made it easier to discern between nice guys and mean guys who both happen to be black.This is the argument I’ve been faced with since a very young age, when I was expected to start dating. (That’s right, expected. What a can of worms that is.)
    I would probably enjoy reading that dissertation.I enjoy dissertations.

    racerealist: I have been hurt but I don’t mind it so much anymore, nor do I let myself believe that those two idiots I dated are the representatives for their race.

    As for that quote, it should have said “I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for black women other than THE black women themselves”

    I guess I must have over looked it. Sorry to cause offense with the omission. I try not to generalize where I can. One loses friends that way.

    Davida: I am sorry to hear about how you were treated by black women. It makes me hurt inside to hear about that sort of thing. They were projecting their insecurities on to you, and finding a problem with your whiteness. That’s so bothersome. But don’t let it stop you. I congratulate you for being so attractive that men are willing to overcome their preconceptions and judgments in order to ask you out.

    Side Note: I do agree that body image is important for all women regardless of their race. It’s just not as easy to have as older people think. I’m still young, and not being able to attract ANY guys ,no matter what the race, makes me feel like I’m a poor example of a woman. I mean, no offense, but you’re older and settled in with a husband. You’ve been through the uncertainty (or perhaps you were popular) and may have forgotten the feeling of worthlessness that so many girls have to struggle through.

    I’m still starting out, and the world is telling me that I should have had relationship experience starting in middle school, or high school at the latest. I’m sure that this sort of rejection feels the same for every young woman who can’t seem to get a date, while the girls next door have a new boyfriend every week. I’ve seen white women, asian women, latina women, and middle eastern women all struggle with the same things.

    It’s not my race that makes me this way. My blackness is not the root of my (lack of) self-esteem. I know for a fact that girls from other races face the same problems as I do when it comes to self-love. That’s a lesson better taught to the entire modern world.

    I hope that all made sense.

    tl;dr- I’m trying not to generalize. Everyone deserves a chance. And, I don’t hate myself because I’m black. I was taught to hate myself because I’m a woman.


  92. To racerealist:

    what Abagond said:

    “I am in fact part of the wave of middle-class West Indians who left the city in the 1990s to bring up their children.”

    “Okay so I see West Indian now. That’s not quite the same as “black”, unless you define it very broadly.”

    I had thought I read somewhere on his blog that he was white. As you probably know the majority of the residents of the Caribbean would be probably described as black but there a number of whites, indigenous people, and Asians. (most of the latter are in Trinidad/Tobago..)


  93. So Erin. Would you agree that generalizing whites as the reason why there’s a lack of interracial couples is unfair? Because you even said it yourself that you were raised to hate white people. Don’t you think that could be part of the reason why there is a lack of white/black couples in the U.S.?

    Racerealist: Just admit that you did use some double-standards against Rob Lindsay.


  94. Erin – i was on the outside looking in for most of HS. People wrote “your really nice but kinda weird” in my year book. After I was beaten by those girls I actually became fearful of BW for a time – and scared to date BM. I ended up dating a WM (well boy) who abused me. He called me “Slim” because “your not – ohhh” (said in a Andrew Dice Clay voice) I wanted so desperately to fit in. I hated my body and alot of who I was. I took to cutting myself for about a year. I dated boys who treated me poorly, starved myself until I ended up in the hospital and thought about killing myself…Now – at 32 – mother of three sons and wife to a wonderful man…there is nothing in the world that would make me want to be in HS again. I remember the depression, the fear and the rejection. I can almost taste my desperation to fit in.

    You do not have to have a relationship in HS and JH…in fact i would say – boys that age are singularly unready to have a relationship. Wait erin. wait and be yourself. Be strong and confident in who you are. And the RIGHT man will notice you. You dont need a man to complete you.

    Being a women is amazing. You need to get in touch with your inner women. For years I would refer to myself as a girl. A coworker once complimented me and said I was a smart women. I repeated it to my boss…but said girl. Suddenly I realized that I did this all the time. I thought of myself as a girl…I was uncomfortable with the idea of being a women. Further self analysis revealed that when I fully embrace my women hood – coworkers and friends liken me to a force of nature (pretty sur thats good). i was scared of my womenhood. Being a women is wonderful. We nuture, we give life, we care for the world. without women there would be no civilazation. feeling a child grow inside you, giing birth and nursing the child are things only a women can do. It is amazing.

    I am not beautiful. I am pretty average in looks. But when I am comfortable and confident in who I am – and I summon my inner earth goddess…I am a force of nature. And you can be too. Never hate your womenhood. I bet Lynette can explain this better. I just know that I used to hate who I was. And I have learned to love who I am.

    I have stretch marks on my tummy, a bump on my broken nose, and I weigh 200 lbs. But I feel radiant and beautiful most of the time…because I believe that I am inside. I admit I dont like my own reflection (stretch marks are soo gross)- but I am dealing with that. And no one will ever make me feel bad about who I am ever again. I am 32 – and I didnt get to this state of mind until I was close to 30.

    Being 18 sucks girl…but hang in there – it passes.


  95. i am pretty sure he said he was black somewhere – not that it matters one iota. I have been reading his blog for over a year now…soo it all blurs together.


  96. Amen to Davida. This is my theory.

    This is my theory. No woman is born ugly. Most women are in fact beautiful. It just depends on how they make themselves look. I’m serious about this. There’s a show called “Made”. And there will be the ugliest, nerdiest women. But once they get made over, they are hot. Any woman can be attractive. All you have to do it put on make-up, do your hair, keep your skin nice, dress good, and maintain a good weight.


  97. I’ve noticed this a lot. Women are not born ugly. They make themselves look ugly. Any girl can be attractive if she wears make-up,dresses good, does her hair, straightens her teeth, and maintains a healthy body weight. I’ve seen it over and over again.

    It’s not the same for guys though. Guys that are ugly are really just ugly.

    Women that are ugly are ugly because they don’t take care of themselves as mentioned above.


  98. To Davida:

    “i am pretty sure he said he was black somewhere – not that it matters one iota.”

    For the most subjects on his blog I would agree. However, I think his position and views regarding white guys marrying black women would be inherently more abstract unless he were a white male himself.


  99. I agree Uncle Milton.


  100. Its not so much “if she wears make-up,dresses good, does her hair, straightens her teeth, and maintains a healthy body weight”

    without make up, if I care for my skin – it looks nice.
    dresses good means dress appropriate for her body – A 200 lb women can look better than a 120 lb women if she wears clothes that flatters.

    Healthy weight is ideal – but i think its about confidence and being self aware. Also – a smile goes a long way. shoulders back, head up, a smile on my face goes miles


  101. mike just shut the hell up because you’re nothing but ignorance and think you know everything with your stupid views when you don’t. shut up and read a goddamn book.


  102. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lil vina, tough statement.

    “Nothing but ignorance”

    Alright, remind me how I’m ignorant again?

    That’s right. Go play on train tracks and get hit by a train. No one wants you alive.


  103. no one wants me alive? is that the best you can come up with? you are a sad man with no brains at all. like i said go read a book and get a life mike. LOL!


  104. thanks abagond. obviously this dude think he knows everything and say some b.s that no one wants me alive? ha i’m glad to be alive and don’t need some fake ass internet bully telling me that.


  105. blah blah blah, ya’ll some real nerds for sure. How do you even get so mad about another person’s comments made over the internet? You have low self-esteem girl. Go talk to Davida on how to raise your confidence.


  106. Abagond, I still say that you need to get a life. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to respond to everyone’s comments. Go raise your kids before getting caught up in the computer world. Alright buddy? You need to be more social and get out of the house. I know I do. I smoked like 6 joints yesterday and banged the hell out of a hot chick. Your probably some fat ugly person who sits on their ass all day. Put a pic of yourself on here. After all, this is your site.

    Lil vine: “go read a book”

    Is that supposed to be an insult or something? Last time I checked, it was good to read. It would probably do you some good if you read a book, too. You lack intelligence like your boy Abagond.


  107. on Sun 29 Mar 2009 at 06:37:10 mynameisnyname

    Mike, how dare you say someone need to get a life, when you spend your entire day trolling on a blog???

    Abagond, damn, do you just let people roll over you like that? How can you let some troll disrespect your blog by making very nasty remarks about taking someone’s life and expound relentelessy with a bunch of racist garbage? Do something! Gain some order, set some standards. Come on now, man. This is pathetic. Not you, but what you allowed “Mike” and the other trolls to turn this blog into.


  108. Mike said to lil’vina:

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lil vina, tough statement.

    “Nothing but ignorance”

    Alright, remind me how I’m ignorant again?

    That’s right. Go play on train tracks and get hit by a train. No one wants you alive.

    I do. Get lost.


  109. I have put a new comment policy in place:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/new-comment-policy/

    In short, if you use bad language, like “shut the fuck up”, or call people names, like bitches and idiots, then I will delete your comment. If you keep doing it, then I will mark you as spam.

    Mike has taught me that people like that are not very serious and cause more harm than good.

    I warned both mike and racerealist that they were getting out of line. Racerealist took it to heart, I think, but mike went on being an asshole. So he is banned. Not for his racist ideas but because of how he was acting towards other commenters.


  110. Despite what mike said about me, I thought Erin’s first comment (#62) was excellent, maybe the best one for this page so far. She was honest, used her own experience, did not jump to conclusions and thought for herself despite what she was taught to believe growing up. It is almost the opposite of the stereotyping that some commenters have been doing on this topic.


  111. Lynette vs. Robert Lindsay:

    Lynette stated a preference for her own race. That is pretty natural. Nearly everyone marries inside their own race. To call that racist would stretch the word into meaninglessness.

    If Robert Lindsay had said that he preferred white women because to him they seemed to be the prettiest or the hottest or because he has more in common with them, then I doubt anyone would object.

    But what Lindsay did instead was to stereotype black women based on very limited experience. I doubt, for example, that he would have sworn off of white women based on an equally limited experience of them.

    And because his stereotype was such a common one it seemed like it did not come from his experience at all – that the stereotype came first and he read black women according to it.


  112. I don’t recall being “warned”. I can’t imagine anyone who would find anything that I’ve said “offensive”.

    And abagond, you’re one to criticize other people for generalizing about other races when you seem to have absolutely no problem with making broad, completely unfounded generalizations about white men.


  113. Abagond – excellent new policy.

    I shuddered when Mike used me as a reference to lil’vina. He is a cyber bully.

    To restate simiply my points to this post.

    1) Racicim and racial difference lower the number of WM to BM couples for some people

    2) cultural differences have an impact.

    3) Body Language may be telling the wrong message

    4) a women she be herself and the right man will notice – regardless of race.


  114. on Sun 29 Mar 2009 at 18:06:48 mynameisnyname

    I agree with everything Lynette said.

    The mainstream standard of beauty is harmful to all women, but it especially opresses black women who are told they are inferior and undesirable because by large, their phenotypes are the polar opposite of the ideal Nordic female’s.

    I also think that Erin is brilliant. I just want to tell her that you are VERY worthy. It doesn’t matter who finds you attractive or when you’ll have a romantic relationship, that’s secondary to your own self love. Once you embrace yourself, as you should (because you defintely appear to be very intelligent), everything will fall in its place.


  115. I don’t have anything else important to say but I wanted to post my thanks for all of the compliments. They made me smile.

    (:


  116. on Sun 29 Mar 2009 at 22:24:58 mynameisnyname

    You’re welcome, Erin!


  117. Mike said: “When I refer to her family, I don’t mean skin color. Everybody wants to date someone like their family. I read studies where sons will date women similar to their mom. But it doesn’t mean race has to be involved.”

    Yes, men tend to MARRY (not necessarily date) women who look similar to their mothers. And, yes, it is regardless of race (women care much more about race). There tend to be certain traits men look for in their mates that match their mothers (I was reading a book about it at the bookstore this afternoon — trying to remember everything…): hair color, face shape (round, oval, etc.), height, personality, and IQ.

    My mother-in-law, for example is short, dark-haired, cat-eyed, oval-faced, voluptuous, highly intelligent, and outgoing with a vibrant sense of humor. Just like I am. Everyone comments on it and jokes about how he managed to marry her twin. She’s also white and I’m biracial. Go figure. And when we met I even had my hair cut really short like hers (Halle Berry -style). It was uncanny. My husband’s ex-girlfriend also was short, curvy, short dark-haired, and vibrant.

    A black (not biracial) cousin of mine is married to a white man and I saw a wedding picture with the parents and the newlyweds all lined up last weekend. I totally cracked up. She looks like a younger version of her mother-in-law, just dipped in dark chocolate. Strangely, they even have the same nose and lips. I started laughing and she just looked at me and rolled her eyes. “Yeah, I know. Everyone laughs when they see that picture. I don’t think I look anything like her.”

    Guys are weird like that. But women are the same way sometimes. My husband and father have the same job (electrical engineers), almost identical IQ scores (both in the profoundly gifted range), both served in the military, same EXACT height, same longish-oval faces, same physique, same medium-brown hair, same deep voices, same hobbies and interests (they get along really well), and same annoying/endearing personality traits. They even have the same favorite foods. W-E-I-R-D. I never even noticed until my mother pointed it out, “Geez, it’s like you married the white version of your dad!”
    And if I think back, EVERY guy I had a longer relationship with had similar traits. I dated black guys, asian guys, white American guys, British guys, and German guys but they all followed the same pattern. And when I think about my closest girlfriends and relatives, it’s the same thing (and they all also dated interracially). I guess we all just stick with what we know and are comfortable with.

    ANYWAY: the interesting thing in the book was that they said that research says that ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, men were more likely to have sex with women who are of a different race (makes reproductive sense) and marry women of the same race (makes sense culturally).

    They went on to say that the second link is getting weaker, year by year. That is, now that culture is no longer strictly defined by race but often by social class, occupation, religion, etc., men are more likely to marry the women they just want to mate with, and that this is their guess for why the number of interracial marriages is at a steady increase.
    And they said that this explains why interracial marriages are more common the higher up the social-ladder you climb. And that now that more black women are college-education and in powerful positions the number of interracial marriages involving black women is climbing at a corresponding rate.

    It was an interesting book called “Do Men Really Prefer Blonds?” or some such.

    BTW, their answer to that question is: only in countries in which blonds are scarce, such as Italy and France. In Scandinavia and Germany the overwhelming majority of men prefer brunettes.

    Fascinating stuff…


  118. Oh! This also reminds me of a section in “The Hemingses of Monticello” (great book, BTW) in which they discuss why Thomas Jefferson had an affair with Sally Hemmings. After all, if he just had a thing for dark-skinned girls why didn’t he choose someone else (apparently Monticello was famously overflowing with good-looking black women)?
    Well, Sally was his beloved dead-wife’s half-sister and apparently looked like a caramel-colored image of her (and both were considered unusually pretty). In other words, he picked her because she looked and behaved familiar to him; more familiar than the white women he came into contact with.


  119. Lynette –

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I understand your point. As much as I feel overlooked by mainstream white beliefs, a black women feels more so. I never thought that I should be included in your dissertation. I am interested in reading it though. Anything I can learn or read about that will assist my niece and nephew in embracing their black heritage….which until know was a mystery to me, i am interested in. I can tell them about scotts or germans or american indidans….but I know nothing of a black womens life experience. And I think this viewpoint is equally important to my niece as is my own german/scot/indian experience. she has her father – but he cant speak to her about being a black women….her grandmother is elderly, and so her mother and I want to make sure she is in touch with all the women that come togehter to make up her heritage. I love being a women…women are amazing and powerful creatures. I want my niece to embrace all if her past.


  120. Oh, yeah. One more thought.

    I’ve read that power (sometimes displayed through wealth) makes a man’s race irrelevant to women and beauty does the same for women.

    Is that true? Anecdotally, it seems to be so.


  121. well i’m glad mike is gone. to tell me i need a life when he’s the one bugging people with his ignorance.


  122. Lynette Says:
    “However, research has consistently shown that Black women continue to suffer in regards to self-esteem when other physical features come into play. This is because of a long history of being made to feel like their features were undesirable. This is why I decided to focus my attention on the African-American female, but I do agree that women of all colors experience the pressures to conform.”

    Lynette, I do agree that historically the characteristics of African American women were not appreciated by mainstream beauty standards. But wouldn’t you agree that perception has significantly improved in more recent years, especially when you consider there are many more AA women celebrities on the scene, who are regarded as very desirable by the mainstream?


  123. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 03:42:27 mynameisnyname

    True, A White Guy,

    There’s many very attractive black starlets in the public eye yet as Abagond has documented very well, the ones that much (certainly not all) of the general white public seem to pay any attention tend to look similar to a white woman in some way.

    It’s as if appreciating a black woman who’s distinctly black-looking (which varies, as people of black African descent are the most diverse, phenotypically) would deter from their mental racial heirachy. Black is meant to be the opposite of white, so white women=beauty and femininity while black women=ugly and unfeminine. It’s that line of imprinted societal thought that needs to be dismantled.


  124. If Lynette agrees that it’s okay for people to prefer mates of their own race, why is it not okay for society in general to mostly prefer white (or white-looking) women? After all, society in general is mostly white.


  125. In reference to comment #90, Davida why is it that you think BMs were attracted to you in high school? I think it may be cultural differences. I think a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman regardless of her race but due to culture the things we find beautiful differs – do you think that your looks appealed to black males more than that of white ones? If so why is that? In my experience, mostly black men have been attracted to me, but quite often I’m approached by WM. I think that may be because I’m thin – and WM are more inclined to find that beautiful more so than BM. And since you are curvy, do you think that is why you appeal to BM?


  126. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 04:48:01 mynameisnyname

    Well, Racerealist,

    It’s okay to prefer people who look like you. That’s not really the issue. The trouble begins when you deem someone to be subordinate because they don’t look like you. Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.

    U.S. society isn’t as white as it used to be. Whites are now merely a simple majority; no longer an overwhelming one. If you doubt this fact, all you have to do is look at who our President is. The majority of white voters didn’t vote for him, yet he still won didn’t he?

    Also, two-thirds of the general world population is not white. Whites are a global minority. Always have been. That a minority of people have caused so much trauma and colonized so much of the world speaks volumes, but that’s a whole ‘nother conversation.


  127. strangefruit – I think it is my hips and backside that attract BM. In High school I had a very low WHR – they called me jessica rabbit. Even today – after three babies and about 50 lbs weight gain – I get hit on by BMs as I walk down the street – before they even see my face. Depresses me sometimes…I feel like no one evens sees my face sometimes.


  128. “Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.”

    Umm… I don’t know what to say to this. It is completely at odds with any kind of logic and reason.

    If I prefer X, I will choose X over Y. Yes, that means that I will discriminate against Y. In fact, I will discriminate against all non-X. I prefer X.

    You cannot prefer X without discriminating against some non-X.


  129. Racerealist said logic insinuates that if a a heterosexual female dates/prefers men (being that she is heterosexual) then she discriminates against women. I think it is flawed. Having a preference and discriminating are two different things. You can prefer one thing without discriminating against the other.
    Davida – that’s what I was getting at. Your body type might appeal more to BMs than WMs due to cultural differences.


  130. Davida, on a lot of your posts you speak about getting hit on or how guys are attracted to you. I congratulate you on that, but I would feel a little awkard stating that in so many of my posts. I’m not trying to criticize. This is just an observation.


  131. racerealist said:

    “Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.”

    Umm… I don’t know what to say to this. It is completely at odds with any kind of logic and reason.

    If I prefer X, I will choose X over Y. Yes, that means that I will discriminate against Y. In fact, I will discriminate against all non-X. I prefer X.

    You cannot prefer X without discriminating against some non-X.

    Good point.


  132. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 13:04:40 lifeisannoying

    Thank god that mike has gone!!! i could not bear it if he returned.
    lets get back to honest discussion folks!!

    Whatever the why’s or therefore’s, if you are lucky enough to find true and honest deep love i congratulate you and ask that you hold onto and cherish it!!


  133. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 13:05:56 lifeisannoying

    Also, as a fellow west indian…. (born and bred in england) may i say we are black, we are mixed, we are carib, taino, chinese, indian and sometimes white.

    we are cosmopolitan also.


  134. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 15:53:41 mynameismyname

    Abagond and “Racerealist”,

    Let’s say I have a preference for oranges over apples. Do I have disparage and discriminate against apples because oranges would be my obvious choice? Having a preference doesn’t neccessarily mean that you dislike or disrespect what isn’t your preference. That makes sense, no?

    Lynette,

    Exactly. The one minor “gripe” I have, however, when this subject comes up is the idea of a so-called “Afrocentric” beauty. Broad noses, thick lips, tightly curled hair and pitch black skin is what white colonists decided as the uniform “authenthic black look”.

    In reality, black people are the most diverse in terms of phenotype. So much so, that there a primary “Afrocentric” look doesn’t exist. Ghanaians, for example, vary dramatically in looks depending on which region you’re on. And they’re all from the same country! LOL.

    So, in my opinion, Halle Berry, although the most obvious example of what we talking about, does represent Western black women in terms of physical appearance. She wouldn’t exactly stand out among the average black woman in the U.S., phenotypically. Yet then again, that’s based on almost entirely on individual perception.


  135. mynameismyname: I agree that black people are the most diverse in phenotype. We are also the most underrepresented on those claims. If we are so diverse, why is it that most of the black women in the public eye are pressured to look more mainstream? Remember Jordin Sparks before she won? How about Oprah Winfrey back in 1986? They look so much different now, and I still can’t see what was so wrong with how they looked before.

    Now then, Halle Berry, on the other hand, has looked pretty consistent over the years. So even though she’s not representative of all of the black women out there, I can accept that she’s a black beauty.

    But my last point is that there is definitely something that separates African and African American looks from other phenotypes. Otherwise, how else would we be able to tell the difference in between a person from say… rural India, where their skin is just a dark or even darker than those of people of African descent? There is something unique in the way a black (asian, latina, middle eastern)person is built, and the mainstream tries to sift out as much of that as it can while still being able to say that it accepts/encourages diversity.

    Lynette: I think the problem with self love is not necessarily the examples of beauty. I do admit that they have some impact, but if the world were to make a sudden change and ethnic beauties became mainstream, that would still tell girls what to think of themselves. Even if all of the super models had very uniquely ethnic features that matched their race, the minor nuances between every person would still leave a lot of people left out. I don’t think we should blame beauty-models like Halle Berry as much as we should blame the idea that what the media says is what is right.

    I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like Halle Berry,or Angela Bassett or even because they look like the Ghanaian woman on Wikipedia.

    Also, I’d love to read your dissertation if it’s published.


  136. Anon – you are right – I do tend to be my own biggest fan.

    the topic was about why white men might not approach BW. I was suggesting it had to do with a cultural difference between the two groups. I was pointing to why men approach me as an example I guess.

    Or perhaps – married 12 years to a good man but he does not often tell me I am beautiful (he believes adults shouldnt need other people to stroke their ego and if asked if he thinks I am attractive replies with “why would I marry an ugly women”) perhaps I just need to tell myself that I am attractive…loudly and in a public forum. we all have issues – and mine is I think pretty obvious to anyone who reads my comments….can we all label me desperate for attention and be done with it?

    I actually dont think I am all that attractive externally. It puzzles me that I get hit on so much. I believe it has to do with my body language, confidence and smile more than a perfect body. I can give you a list of my flaws that would fill your computer monitor and then some.

    I also have a short attention span and easily get off tract in my own comments. it possibly has something to do with the ODDLES of espresso I drink. What were we talking about again? Just kidding.


  137. Erin said “I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like…insert any other women here ”

    Amen Erin – not just other famouse women but – older sisters, younger sisters, mothers, other women in our lives can all negatively impact a young girl if we feel we dont measure up.

    My little sister is taller and thinner than me and blonde. Our faces and voices are alot alike though. Yet, I always feel second best when compared to her. I am always looking for her approval. And yet, she looks to me for approval in other areas…each of us jealous of the other…which is so silly.

    You will always be better than some and worse than others…if you compare yourself to someone else. Its best to set your inner compass to who you want to be…and go from there.


  138. Dedabets: “I actually dont think I am all that attractive externally. It puzzles me that I get hit on so much.”

    I used to have the same puzzlement but I think (with my husband’s help) I’ve figured it out now.
    We’re confusing attractiveness and beauty. Once you get over the “generally pretty” threshold the deciding factor is approachability. As in, does a man find you approachable, open, friendly? Do you look intelligent and interesting? Do you make him feel comfortable and does your smile say, “Hey, you seem nice!”? If that is so, they’ll speak up. It doesn’t matter how gorgeous you are, you have to look like someone they’d actually want to spend some time with.

    Remember Heidi Klum and Halle Berry became famous beauties because of their SMILES. It’s really true! There are gorgeous swim-suit models by the dozen but their faces really jump out of the page at you. They both look intelligent, approachable, cheerful, and unpretentious (but not like airheads). Men eat that stuff up!


  139. Lynette said:

    Erin,

    I will send you the link to my dissertation. However, I’m not sure if you want to make your email address public.

    You have to enter your email address to comment here, so I already have them. I would like to read your dissertation too (how long is it? – well, at least a good part of it then). You can email it to me and I will forward it to whoever is interested that you want to send it to.


  140. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 19:02:23 mynameismyname

    Lynette and Erin,

    I agree almost wholeheartedly with both of your previous comments.

    Even without the admixture, people of black Africans are the most diverse, by far. West Africans and East Africans, for example, run the gamut, in terms of skin shades, physical features and hair textures. I really wish that we lived in a nation that provided a full glimpse of Africa instead of the slanted, biased images of flies and famine that we are bombarded with on the nightly news. Black Americans would think of themselves in a whole ‘nother way if they knew the truth.

    I personally find both Miss Union and Miss Bassett to be more beautiful than Miss Berry. I also agree, they are both very represenative of black American women. Yet, so is Berry. In fact, most of the time, in films that are targeted to the black audience, the black cast members look very representative of black Americans. I’ve expounded on this blog before about the potential liability of being a black actor who doesn’t look “traditionally black”.

    Erin,

    Well, Berry has had a nose job. I believe that even she’ll admit to that. So, maybe she hasn’t been so consistent. Then again rhinopasty is intended to be subtle, if done well.

    And you’re very right, there is something distinct about a black person’s phenotype. Hence, why East Indians, for instance, usually aren’t mistaken for black.

    Unfortunately, we live in a nation that HAS to deintergrate blackness in order to glorify whiteness. Hence why the vast diversity and beauty that black Americans inherently displayed is usually downplayed or diluted.

    “I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like Halle Berry,or Angela Bassett or even because they look like the Ghanaian woman on Wikipedia.”

    EXACTLY! Amen!


  141. mynameismyname: “Unfortunately, we live in a nation that HAS to deintergrate blackness in order to glorify whiteness.”

    When I was living in the States I also thought that the more light-skinned black people must all be mixed. Then I lived in Europe for 10 years and met black people who were actually born and raised in Africa and were not mixed (within the last few generations, at least). I was shocked. Some of them just looked like Europeans or Asians or Middle Easterners with a dark tan. Africa is definitely much more diverse than I had realized.

    I’d love to travel there. I had a Tanzania colleague and a Senegalese neighbor and they both showed me the most BEAUTIFUL photographs. One day…


  142. The way I think of it is this: every race came out of the black race. Because mutations are rare that means nearly every gene that you find anywhere else in the world can also be found in Africa – because that is where it came from.


  143. That is a very interesting way to put it.


  144. And then there is the fact that Africans were great travelers and merchants.


  145. Anon – you are right – I do tend to be my own biggest fan.

    Dedebets, lol! It’s cool. Thanks for not getting upset with me for my observation. I have the opposite problem. Men rarely approach me. But it’s fine, I have other strengths.


  146. The way I think of it is this: every race came out of the black race. Because mutations are rare that means nearly every gene that you find anywhere else in the world can also be found in Africa – because that is where it came from.

    That’s a simplistic, if not outright incorrect, way to look at it. Even assuming that “out of Africa” hypothesis is correct — and there is some evidence indicating that it may not be — it is obvious that more than a few gene variants arose (and formerly common variants were eliminated) after different human populations had become geographically isolated.

    Regarding the original point: yes, Africans are more genetically diverse than, say, whites/Europeans. Which, incidentally, makes the pseudo-scholarly attempts to deny the material reality of the white race based on its heterogeneity and/or fuzzy boundaries so ironic.


  147. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 23:06:04 mynameisnyname

    Lynette,

    I know exactly where you’re coming from and agree to an extent. Yet, if you want to use the media as an example, there’s still enough beautiful black women in the industry who are extremely represenative of their race. If some young girls are more inclined to have the desire to look more like Halle Berry than Keke Palmer, Kyla Pratt or Camille Winbush, doesn’t that say more about their own inner biases?

    You’re right about there being more Gabby Unions (an intelligent way in saying that Miss Union looks like a “typical black”) than Halle Berrys but Berry’s phenotype is hardly atypical for a black woman. Show me a town where most of the black women look like Gabby Union though! I will move there in a second! LOL.

    Aba,
    Exactly. There’s reason for the vast diversity in not only phenotypes but culture. It’s extremely fascinating.


  148. on Mon 30 Mar 2009 at 23:08:16 mynameisnyname

    LOL, Noserviam,

    Nothing sets white folks off more than bringing up the idea of life civilization originating from …black Africans! LOL.

    That says a lot about how blacks are viewed.

    And please, do not try to engage me in a debate, Noserviam and the crew. This was just a simple comment.


  149. sedlmeier1 Says:

    “Remember Heidi Klum and Halle Berry became famous beauties because of their SMILES. It’s really true! There are gorgeous swim-suit models by the dozen but their faces really jump out of the page at you. They both look intelligent, approachable, cheerful, and unpretentious (but not like airheads). Men eat that stuff up!”

    But those ladies and ladies like them always complain about not getting approached by men. Halle Berry said that she had to actually approach her current boyfriend because he didn’t make a move. In fact, according to her, she almost always makes the first move. I think that men already assume that already are taken or they are too apprehensive about approaching because they assume that men approach all of the time, which is not true. I think that I come off as intelligent and unpretiounous, but I’m not approached unless the guy has a lot of money or intellectuals. But how many of those men are walking around?

    I know that some people are kinda self-congratulatory if they are approached a lot by men, but there is so many different factors involved with that. If being approached makes a woman feel better about herself, then I am all for it!


  150. anon: a quick question. I’m not arguing but I want to know your take on those who approach guys but still can’t get a date. There are lots of girls who don’t get approached, then build up the courage to ask someone(hoping they just have the Halle Berry syndrome) and are then shot down. What makes them different?


  151. Erin, thats a good question. I will say that it doesn’t have anything to do with the girls’ personally (looks, personality, intelligence) because there are more average girls who have no problem meeting men. I’ve found that there is no rhyme or reason to a man’s taste. It’s more a matter of if a girl approaches a guy and gets shot down, she just might not be his type OR you might be intimating to him in some way. Some men want to take the easy way out – they want a woman, if she is not too much work. So if you are too pretty, too intelligent, too whatever, he feels that he may have to up his game to keep you because you have options.

    Bottom line – whether your a girl with the “Halle Berry Syndrome” or one who approaches and gets shot down, it’s all the same. You’re too intimidating! You’re not different, but the same in that respect.
    I’ve known of women who played down their looks or their intelligence or tall women who don’t wear their heels just to attract a guy. One thing to remember – never downplay you’re assets to attract a man. A man worth having is a man with standards and who celebrate your assets and not threatened by them.


  152. There were quite a few comments about the origin of civilization. I deleted those. They were way off topic.


  153. It’s amazing that some of the above posters have a problem with Black women having preference for Black men. The fact is that the majority of Americans tend to marry within their racial groups. If Black women choose to date/marry Black men or other men of Color, it’s their business, not others.

    La Reyna


  154. “But those ladies and ladies like them always complain about not getting approached by men. Halle Berry said that she had to actually approach her current boyfriend because he didn’t make a move.”

    Well, I always have to make the first move, too, for any man that I ended up dating or marrying (i.e. my husband). But I was never starving for attention, KWIM? And I always got a positive reaction, which made me bolder the next time, of course.
    And it is possible that Halle is just TOO gorgeous and the guys are too busy pulling their tongues off the floor to speak.


  155. A lot of women are TOO gorgeous, that’s what makes men intimidated to approach them.I don’t make the first move, but I rarely get approached especially on the street. I NEVER get approached by thugs or B-boys, rarely black men. The only men that show any type of interest are ones that I wouldn’t expect. I worked at a doctor’s office and one of the doctors showed interest. Or guys that I went to school with later to find they were interested (well why didn’t you tell me back then lol). Or some executives.But I’m definetly not like Davida who gets approached like a million times a day. Oh well!


  156. “I NEVER get approached by thugs or B-boys, rarely black men.”

    I meant to say and rarely black men. I just wanted to make that clear that I wasn’t calling black men thugs or b-boys.


  157. “The fact is that the majority of Americans tend to marry within their racial groups.”

    Yeah but when white people do it, it’s racist.


  158. No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist. I have never heard any black person say something like that.

    And in the case of Lynette stating her preference for black men it was only the white commenters who brought up that it might be racist or tried to make it into something racist.


  159. Most men will not approach Halle Berry or Tyra Banks for the simple reason that they think they have no chance with them. Their beauty has priced them out of the market. Halle, Tyra and Naomi have not had good luck with men and I think that is part of it.

    I hate to say it, but education and intelligence also help to price a woman out of the market. Few men are willing to go with a woman who seems to have more intelligence and education than they do. There are about a half million black women in America who have educated themselves out of the marriage market, sad to say. Think Condi Rice.


  160. Lynette Says:
    “I do think that mainstream America and the media have come a long way in accepting Black beauty. However, usually their beauty standards bend more toward Black females with Eurocentric features, such as lighter skin and straighter hair. Afrocentric beauty is still not widely accepted among the mainstream media. For instance, the only Black leading lady who has won an Oscar is Halle Berry. I would not say that Ms. Berry’s physical features represent the majority of Black women.”

    Lynette, I am glad you made a distinction between mainstream America and the ‘mainstream media’ because much of the time the mainstream media does not reflect the opinions of the mainstream. I do think Halle Berry is beautiful, but so are Jennifer Hudson and Mary J. Blige, both of whom would be closer to the ‘Afrocentric beauty’ standard.


  161. “No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist.”

    part I:
    “They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:

    White men are racist”


  162. on Wed 1 Apr 2009 at 12:34:55 lifeisannoying

    Is anyone else bored and as sick to the back teeth of this topic as i am???

    I mean really folks? I am a black woman and maybe i will never find a white man, so? Maybe i will never find a black man? so? I may never find an asian man, so?

    yes there is a disparity in the issue of interracial dating and marriage, that is easy to explain, in the mean time i find this whole thread slightly demeaning, it’s all “woe for black women who will never find a white(or black or asian) man, boo-hoo, is because they are seen as ugly, or it because they are percieved as loud and unfeminime, is it because they are percieved as have low moral standards, or that they are perecieved as being entirely composed of people who go on maury!!!”

    It cheeses me off, i love abagond and most of the commentators and yes the debate needs to be talked over but i feel that the conversation here isn’t one that is constructive, intelligent or purposeful.

    so we have discussed it, what is the rationale, what have we drawn from this converstion, what should we do? for example!

    I am single and maybe i sound “embittered” or maybe “snappy” but some of the commentators are talking in circles and well it’s irritating to me.
    peace. X


  163. “But I’m definitely not like Davida who gets approached like a million times a day.”

    Well, me neither. I get stared at a lot but not very many direct approaches. I’m just a tad bit too pretty, I think. Oh, well. I’m married now, so I don’t really care anymore.

    The simple truth is that there are a lot of single black women because there are a lot of black men missing (dead, in jail, unemployed, etc.). The situation would be the same for Asian or white women if they were also missing such a large portion of their male population.

    The numbers speak for themselves: date out sometimes. Open up the eligible pool of bachelors and you’re more likely to find a match.

    Yes, there are men of other races who would be interested. Not every single one, but not every single black man is interested in every single black woman either, so the point is rather moot. This wouldn’t change the fact that there aren’t enough eligible men to go around but at least it would make it less of a black-woman-specific problem.

    And remember, there is that little thing called FALLING IN LOVE which is rather colorblind. If you’d asked my husband if he was interested in black women he would have said no but then he met me, fell in love with me (and made puppy-eyes at me for months before getting up the nerve to call me up for a date), and married me. He wasn’t interested in “black women” he was just interested in this particular one. Same thing with my cousin’s husband; dated a string of blonds and then fell HARD for my cousin and chased her until she gave in. And, MAN, she didn’t make it easy for him.


  164. I dont get approached a million times a day – maybe 2 – 3 times a day. And I think it has more to do with the smile on my face and looking people in the eye. I seriously am not all that….Also – the irony is I am happily married as well. It seems my body language is putting out a different vibe than what I intend…but for the life of me cant figure out how to turn it off.

    Which gets back to my question – is body language sending conflicting signals because of cultural differences? You think that might be part of the cause between the lack of IR couples?


  165. abagond said,
    Most men will not approach Halle Berry or Tyra Banks for the simple reason that they think they have no chance with them. Their beauty has priced them out of the market. Halle, Tyra and Naomi have not had good luck with men and I think that is part of it.
    I hate to say it, but education and intelligence also help to price a woman out of the market. Few men are willing to go with a woman who seems to have more intelligence and education than they do. There are about a half million black women in America who have educated themselves out of the marriage market, sad to say. Think Condi Rice.

    abagond,
    I find it interesting that many NON-BW who are gorgeous, intelligent, and successful are NOT considered to have “priced themselves out of the market” due to these (usually POSITIVE)traits. Outside of ANTI-BW COWARDICE and/or ANTI-BW RACISM, it makes NO SENSE that beauty, intelligence, or success would actually PREVENT a BW from finding men who would want to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY her.


  166. “Well, me neither. I get stared at a lot but not very many direct approaches. I’m just a tad bit too pretty, I think.”

    It’s good to know that I’m not the only one experiencing this. Guys will look, but rarely approach me. If they do, they send someone else “wingman” over to say something. I just wish men would “man up” and go after what they want.

    Abagond, “pricing out of the market” is an interesting perspective. I’d never thought of it that way. I just thought that other women were better than me or had more appeal because of how I was conditioned to think that I’m not appealing by girls who bullied me in school for being thin.


  167. i cant imagine why a man wouldnt want a smart beautiful women. Unless he is a dumb ass and cant handle a women smarter than him. And who wants that sort of man anyway.


  168. It’s a catch 22 for bw it seems. First they don’t want us when they think we are all ghetto and loud uneducated hood rats, etc and now we are considered pricing ourselves out of the market for being beautiful, intelligent and educated, well groomed… seems bw cannot win for losing. :-(


  169. “You think that [race differences in body language] might be part of the cause between the lack of IR couples?”

    Oh, definitely. Although it’s an intercultural and not interracial issue.

    An American woman in Germany could walk around breaking hearts left and right and have absolutely no idea of it. With my husband, three of my German female relatives had to say, “Hey, I think he likes you!” before I even NOTICED. And white guys seem to be like that in general. Very subtle. Sometimes too subtle.

    We black women are used to men coming on strong “Hey beautiful! You going to give me your number?” whereas a white guy (Asian guys are even worse) will spend a whole evening at a party talking to you without ever getting around to “hooking up”. I’ve learned to just go ahead and make the first move. If he’s not interested, at least it keeps me from wasting my time. Up till now, they’ve all been interested. I was surprised every time.

    My husband explains it this way: German men show their interest through their presence. As in: I’m here, I’m breathing, I’m talking to you, obviously I want you. (roll eyes here) There’s even a very funny song about a beautiful French girl moving to Germany and staying single because she doesn’t understand the local men. She figures that since they’re not whistling at her or approaching her in public, they’re not interested.


  170. Wow. You could have just knocked me over with a feather. We just got our new Senseo coffee machine and the big label on it is a BW/WM couple cuddling and enjoying a cup of coffee.


  171. Wow sedmelier. That’s a real eye opener when you said that. I mean I know there are cultural differences, but when there are there’s really no way to detect them unless some sort of an offense is made.

    But now that you’ve said that, I think there may be a WM that likes me… by the looks of it. He may like me a great deal. :D That’s awesome because I’ve been crushing on him for weeks.

    The only problem is the next step. How would the French (American) girl tell the German (South African) boy that she likes him back? If there’s such a cultural difference in how people show their interest, I’m sure the courting practices can be just as confusing.


  172. So are the mating rituals or body language or whatever so different between blacks and whites in America that that is what accounts for “why so few white men marry black women”?

    From the comments it seems like black women expect men to be forward and upfront about their interest while white men wait for the woman to show interest first. So they both wait… and never get together.

    (If true, this is something that would never be caught by that Columbia speed dating study about interracial dating.)


  173. As a white women – I thought white men were not interested in me because they didnt approach. Black or Latin men did. Perhaps their are tons of people out there – waiting for the other person to approach – and therefore no one ever does.

    Perhaps this is why internet dating sites have taken off so much. I am attending a bacherlorette party saturday for a friend we never thought would get married. She found the perfect guy for her on match.com – all other men she tend to scare off on the first date.

    With a website – you know the other person is looking so it takes the guess work out of it?


  174. Trust me, white men have no problem approaching a woman. That’s who approach me the most, along with Latin men. Well, I should say professional white men. It’s just black men who don’t.

    If a man goes after a woman that he truely wants, it shows ambition. If he’s ambitious in the area, he is ambitious in other areas of his life. Maybe that’s why so many beautiful women are with well to do men. Those are the men who had the ambition and took the risk to make initial contact.


  175. on Thu 2 Apr 2009 at 01:16:57 mynameisnyname

    Everyone’s experiences in dating will differ dramatically as each person is very different. This is America so race defintely plays a part. But only to an extent. As corny as this sounds, each person’s personality will inform who and what they attract.

    I agree with A White Guy’s comment as well. Except I don’t see how MJB or Jennifer Hudson are so much more “African” (which is???) than Halle. Hell, if someone told me they were sisters, I’d believe them.

    Aba’s idea about black women pricing themselves out of the market is an interesting one. They say that men tend to be intimadated by women are TOO beautiful or much smarter or wealthier than they are. But then again, there’s undoubtedbly many who would thrilled to find such a woman, right? A “moocher” would probably love to find a woman who makes way more money than he does? And an insecure type would love to a really gorgeous woman who he fault around as his trophy?


  176. I had an Asian friend in college that just hung-around me for 2 years without asking me out. A friend of mine told me he was crushing on me (I had no idea) so I asked him out to dinner and he almost peed his pants in shock. We were friends too long, though. Felt incestuous somehow. It’s a shame because he was really cute and was built like a tall Jackie Chan.

    “They say that men tend to be intimadated by women are TOO beautiful or much smarter or wealthier than they are.”

    My simple solution: date men that are smarter and wealthier than you. I’m very intelligent but my husband is better at CERTAIN things and has more earning potential than I do (right now). Men just want to be able to impress you with something. They don’t necessarily want you to be a brain-dead cheerleader for them. And once you’re married a while they usually don’t mind if you earn more money as it’s more for them. When we bought our house my husband didn’t sneer at my contribution to the down payment. It’s just an issue when you’re dating. And we manage our finances like my parents do: his paycheck goes into one account from which all of our recurring bills are paid, mine goes into our spending account from which our investments, travel, gifts, dinners out, etc. are paid. That way my money is seen as the expendable part and his is the “supporting the family part”. It also has the HUGE benefit that you learn to live off of one income. It made quitting my job for baby-time much simpler.
    Okay, everyone can start throwing mud at me now for that anti-feminist confession…

    “How would the French (American) girl tell the German (South African) boy that she likes him back?”

    Heck, I don’t know. The song doesn’t tell you. LOL! Maybe just baby steps like touching his arm when you speak to him and looking down at the floor and then up at him through your lashes? Standing just a tad too close in the elevator? If he reacts by moving away, he’s not interested.

    Or you could be really bold and ask him what he does in his spare time. Sound REALLY interested in whatever it is “You bowl? I LOOOVE bowling.” (and then cut your nails short quick). Maybe he’ll ask you to join him sometime.
    I’ve learnt to like watching soccer, drink beer, and cook Scheinebraten with Knoedel. Mandatory with a German man. Lots of soccer. Did I mention that we watch soccer? Lots of it?

    Ooooh… He’s SA? They have such a sexy accent.

    With my husband I just gave my cousin’s husband (who was his best friend — happy coincidence) my phone number and insisted he pass it on. The frustrating thing was that my husband called me up with some corny excuse, talked for 15 minutes, and then was about to hang up when I said, flat-out, “Weren’t you calling to ask me out?” Then he did FINALLY. Geez, it was like pulling teeth.

    “If a man goes after a woman that he truely wants, it shows ambition.”

    It does show ambition. My husband wasn’t at all ambitious when we met but… he’s married to a black girl now and is moving up. Hee, hee. His income has doubled in 3 years due to my ministrations and encouragement.
    I’m ambitious enough for both of us. We’re in the same industry, so I know the deal. Wives can have a dramatic effect on a man’s behaviour and income…

    Ladies, it’s all about seeing potential.


  177. BTW, the bowling thing:

    Men aren’t stupid. They know you don’t like to bowl (or watch soccer or drink beer with his buddies). The point is to show that you are INTERESTED IN HIM and want to get to know him and his friends/family better.

    My husband hates the ballet but he takes me there at least once a year because he wants me to know that he’s INTERESTED IN ME and wants to spend time doing things that please me, even if there’s nothing in it for him.

    Get it?

    Besides, they’re cute when they start getting all excited about their hobbies.


  178. Damn, this is the best conversation I’ve seen on this topic EVER! Excuse the swearing, Abagond & forgive me if I leave out some of you great commenters. Erin, mynameis…, sedlmeier1, Lynette, AWhiteGuy, ceilidh71, anon, Blan2, Davida/dedabets, racerealist, any commenters I missed & of course, Abagond.

    Thank you all for an interesting, compassionate & civil conversation.


  179. sedlmeier1: We are both slowly taking baby steps, though I suspect our baby steps are ant steps. We haven’t touched at all, not even to shake hands, but he has walked me back to campus, and he tells me alot about himself and what he does. He’s working on finishing his masters and getting his PhD, so I know all the times he spends around me is definitely worth something, especially since his work site is several miles away. And we flirt, in our own humorous, nerdy sort of pick-on-each-other way. But I don’t intend to push him. He is a busy fella’ and I don’t think he should have the burden of a new relationship to deal with right now. So I’m content to wait and flirt.

    I know a lot of the things he likes, and he’s getting to learn what I like as well. I think we’re getting there, but we’ve got a long way to go. :D

    thanks for the advice though. I’ve already learned to play Ultimate Frisbee because of him. And I already like soccer, we ought to get along swimmingly.I guess it’s about noticing the things that are out of the ordinary about a guy. I had to compare his actions around my girl friends to his actions around me, and the logical conclusion is in my favor :D!

    (Yes, he was raised in SA, but he’s been back long enough to have a lovely slight southern accent.)

    temple: thanks :D


  180. I’m originally from Texas so I have a bit of a drawl myself.

    Sounds like he is INTERESTED. Good luck!


  181. racerealist said in comment #182 quoting me to show what he thinks is a contradiction:

    “No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist.”

    part I:
    “They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:

    White men are racist”

    In this case I did not call white men racist for marrying white women. I have never said that nor would I. Why I called white men racist in that post was for not marrying black women because they do not want to have black children. That I called racist. There are different reasons for not marrying black women, not all of them are racist, but some are. That is one of them.


  182. To Abagond

    Why I called white men racist in that post was for not marrying black women because they do not want to have black children.

    To state the very obvious.. you don’t need to be married to reproduce… as is now the case for roughly 40% of the children born in the US. I think, generally, when a white guy isn’t interested in dating black women.. the notion of what his potential children would look like hardly enters the picture.

    Given some of your other posts regarding racism, power, and a lack of understanding by whites towards blacks it would appear that you would dissuade black women from marrying white men. I am not saying that you do.. but quite a few of your posts and themes, if taken as counsel such as:

    “As Gloria Naylor said, to tell lies is bad enough, but to believe your own lies is far worse. White America does both and can get away with it – for a time – because of its power. This blog, among other things, is an exercise in calling them on some of those lies”

    and

    “power in American society is more like a 95-5 thing favouring whites”

    would suggest that such a union would be a bad idea given that marriage involves (or should involve) trust and understanding.


  183. Excellent point, one I made in the post:

    “the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites. True: marriage is an act of profound trust.”

    Also this post is about marriage, not dating. When most men make the decision to marry children are an issue.


  184. I grew up in the Caribbean and I’m mixed (black, portuguese, native indian). I lived quite a few years among every ethnicity under the sun without being questioned about what I was, what I was mixed with etc. Nobody cared!! Maybe my upbringing was a bit idealistic, but I never considered others based on ethnicity at all. Jen was not, “the blonde girl” she was the girl with the wicked sense of humour. Here everyone is first perceived in terms of race.

    Here is America, everyone seems obsessed with race, making generalizations and upholding stereotypes. Who cares who white guys marry? Like everyone else, they have preferences, and that is perfectly ok. So what if someone doesn’t like dark skin or light skin in a partner? Why is that racist?

    I’d like to think that most people choose partners based on similarities, rather than race only. We generally seek out those who are like us. There just seems a profound lack of understanding among different ethnic groups in America.

    Maybe my post is off tangent, but I’m just sick of the need to always identify what you are, where you stand on the colour spectrum and what your preferences are, in such black and white terms.

    Oh and btw, I am married to a white guy.


  185. To Abagond:

    Also this post is about marriage, not dating. When most men make the decision to marry children are an issue.

    I meant to add a few extra thoughts to my previous post but I was pretty tired when I made it. My point about children and marriage (or lack thereof..) is if one is dating, children can certainly come into the equation. The US is approaching the 50% mark for children born out of wedlock. From personal experience as a white guy who has been around plenty of white guys who talk about relationships.. I have never heard another white guy say “I would date a black woman.. but never marry one..” I can believe there are guys out there who hold that position (and not just about black women..) but I don’t know them. Your assertion would possibly be correct if there was a higher ratio of wm/bf dating couples vs. wm/bf married couples than there were wm/wf dating vs. wm/wf married. I don’t think there is.


  186. To Junebugjoon:

    Maybe my post is off tangent, but I’m just sick of the need to always identify what you are, where you stand on the colour spectrum and what your preferences are, in such black and white terms.

    Personally, aside from it making you sick, I think that’s a healthy attitude. More power to you.


  187. on Fri 3 Apr 2009 at 19:27:00 mynameisnyname

    Junebugjoon,

    Right on! I ask myself that everytime I think about race. Why does it matter? But in America, it’s the structure for damn near every facet of life. I’d imagine it’s the same in the Caribbean, just less pronounced.

    Having a shade preference could be perfectly innocent for some but usually, people who “prefer” a certain shade do so for social reasons. It’s not based on some inherent idea of beauty but rather, the individuals own concepts of “light” and “dark”, “black” or “white”.


  188. re: june

    In America, we have laws like affirmative action and hate crimes as well as organizations like La Raza and the NAACP to make sure that we never, ever forget about race.

    The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.

    Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.

    People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.

    American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.


  189. on Fri 3 Apr 2009 at 21:40:12 mynameisnyname

    So, racism isn’t a big deal, anymore, Racerealist? Isn’t that easy for a white man to say?


  190. I never said that racism doesn’t exist, just that the race industry has no interest in making it go away.

    The question was why do Americans focus so much on race? The answer was that there are many elements in society who benefit from making us think that way.

    As for your comment about my race, I think being a white person does give me a better perspective on how white people think than you and abagond, who constantly make assumptions and conjecture about how white people think with no basis in reality.

    I assume because you didn’t address anything in my comment, that you completely agree with what I said? Or are you just avoiding a frank discussion by making race-based personal attacks?


  191. All I have to say is that as a black woman, I’ve never really been attracted to black men. This doesn’t mean that I don’t find some black men attractive- I think Will Smith, Blair Underwood & Morris Chestnut are hot. I’ve always dated interacially, and will continue to do so. Some of my black female friends think I’m weird or a sellout, but I come from I diverse family where race has never been an issue.


  192. Elle, there is nothing wrong with your preference. You have to follow your heart. But the men you mentioned are pretty cute.


  193. And Blair Underwood is a fantastic, clasically-trained actor. One of the few black actors whose films I will actively seek out. Unfortunate that he was cast as a wife-beater in G and Madea though.


  194. Yeah, I met Blair Underwood while I was working for the Obama campaign and more than being attractive and a great actor – he was exremely nice and kind to me. Very classy guy!


  195. on Sat 4 Apr 2009 at 00:47:31 mynameisnyname

    Aba,

    Do you think that perhaps, you, me and many of the other posters don’t think realistically when we talk about white racism like RaceRealist says? I’m seriously asking, no sarcasm.


  196. mynameisnyname Says:

    “I agree with A White Guy’s comment as well. Except I don’t see how MJB or Jennifer Hudson are so much more “African” (which is???) than Halle. Hell, if someone told me they were sisters, I’d believe them.”

    Myname, you are not the first person I heard say something like that about Halle Berry.


  197. racerealist Says:

    “The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.

    Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.

    People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.

    American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.”

    Racerealist, I agree totally about the race industry, which includes unscrupulous lawyers and others who instigate and make a rich living off of strife. Al Sharpton never misses an opportunity to take advantage of an incident. However, I am not a fan of American Renaissance, although I am just as opposed to the double standards that they report on.


  198. Racerealist said:

    As for your comment about my race, I think being a white person does give me a better perspective on how white people think than you and abagond, who constantly make assumptions and conjecture about how white people think with no basis in reality.

    Then mynameismyname said:

    Aba,

    Do you think that perhaps, you, me and many of the other posters don’t think realistically when we talk about white racism like RaceRealist says? I’m seriously asking, no sarcasm.

    I say:

    Whites say they know their own mind but part of what most of them “know” is that they are not racist. Are they right?

    There is some truth in what racerealist is saying – there is some guesswork on our part. But while we may have an incomplete picture of what is going on, we know about their racism better than they do because it affects us, not them. They do not have to understand it, we do. In fact, they have reasons to be blind to their own racism:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/why-whites-are-blind-to-their-racism/


  199. on Sat 4 Apr 2009 at 14:40:14 mynameisnyname

    ^I agree, Aba.

    But, really, racism DOES affect whites. In fact, it may affect whites the most. It’s just that they benefit from the arrrangement, hence why they go into denial or fits of anger when someone acknowledges the unfairness.


  200. As a white women I would say that racerealism is only partly right. You cant know what it is like to live life looking through a white persons eyes. Racism is real – and it affects you every day in a negative way…which is why it is so high on your radar.

    I see racism as just one of many problems in this world…and I dont elevate it about symptom status. Not because I dont think its real…it is…just I get bothered by your narrow focus at times. Hate, evil, greed and self centeredness are the sickness that results in racism…but it shows it self in other forms. To assume a white person doesnt suffer equally with you – some other form of this same sickness is unfair. Its similar to your post on whtie womens eyes – one women said a white women hasnt suffered like black women so their eyes dont appear as deep. Which is a ridiculous statement…by virtue of my skin I dont deal with problems in life? If you took your viewpoint as the extent of the worlds problems – you would think white people walk through life on rose petals and live an easy charmed life.


  201. Suffering is a part of being human in this world. And there are plenty of white women who have suffered more than plenty of black women. But in general black women suffer more.

    I think there are enough government numbers on things like health, income, divorce, unemployment and crime to show that that is most likely the case. And even if their material lives were completely equal, there is still the added layer of racism on top of everything else.


  202. I agree that whites are affected by racism, even in bad ways. How can they not be? It makes America poorer and more dangerous than it has to be. It twists their view of the world. It makes them more fearful. It makes them morally blind.

    But the thing is this: they do not have to think about racism if they do not want to.


  203. or until it affects someone they love.

    I admit I didnt think about it until my sister married a BM – and even then I didnt think about it much except to think peeople should get over the whole OMG its an IR couple reaction. Not until my niece and nephew were born did I really start thinking about racism.


  204. That is just my point.


  205. for christsake, why would a black, asian, or even latino woman ever marry a white male?? i realzied what vile creatures they were when my best friend (asian obviously) was dating a white guy and he dumps her and tells her, i don’t really even like asian girls. and i was just dating you to tell all my friends i f—-cked an asian girl…smarten up. if you want to interracialy date: fine. but why not marry latino? asian? black…another ethnic guy.


  206. To Hei:

    i realzied what vile creatures they were when my best friend (asian obviously) was dating a white guy and he dumps her and tells her, i don’t really even like asian girls. and i was just dating you to tell all my friends i f—-cked an asian girl…smarten up.

    And today’s word to describe this post is syllogism.

    So Hei,

    Although I do agree the guy in your example is a supreme d*ck.. you reasoning does not support the premise that all white men behave this way.

    if a woman told you that she had been sexually assaulted by a black man would you assume that all black men behave the same way..? That’s the same logic you are applying to white men.


  207. Well, that wasn’t the first and ONLY time (duh)…it was the *final* straw. i wouldn’t expect you to understand. how could you? oh, of course!!! not surprised you would give the well-it’s-not-only-white-guys-who-act –this-way excuse…the “what if a [insert race of male] guy had done this…would you still feel that way.” divert the question elsewhere to prove your “point/innocence” w/e point is, no, of course ONE person wouldn’t lead me to believe that…i can’t even count the number of times a white male has said something derogatory or completely ignorant to me/someone i know/or even something i just witnessed…not to mention, the comments women read online written by white males should be enough to tell them to steer clear. skim through craigslist rants, myspace message boards, yahoo answers, if you don’t believe me…so yeah, those things do sort of reinforce my beliefs….and just further proves my point. when i meet someone who is TRULY different, than i’ll believe they aren’t all the same…until then…? Being neither “ethnic” nor a woman, you really wouldn’t understand, would you? i’m young, but i’ve seen more than enough to know where to steer clear. you can’t even image how it feels to be on the other end, so stop putting your two cents in. and i stand by what i said, i think it’s stupid for anyone of “color” to date a white male. maybe especially when you’re younger.(maybe especially asians and blacks) end of discussions. that’s was geared to women anyhow. not you.


  208. ps-i don’t hate white men, not at all. and reading back, it definitely reads that way….it’s more like i dislike certain traits?…i don’t know, it’s sort of hard to put in words. maybe it’s more like, i avoid them because i assume certain things about them?? “vile creatures” was a little harsh, but i really just don’t think ethnic women should date them. and what’s that saying “one bad apple…” and when it’s more than “one bad apple”…how is a WOMAN supposed to feel? i just don’t think it’s smart…maybe later on, i’ll feel differently, but not now…and i’m sorry if i offended you, because looking back-this was a pretty bitchy post.


  209. There are 100 million white men in this country and if you shut them all out you’re only hurting yourself. If you judge every race by the worst person someone of that race has ever done to you (or someone you know?) you won’t have any friends.

    If you judge a whole race by one person’s actions, you are the definitive racist. It’s a sign of stupidity, and like I said before it only hurts yourself.


  210. By the way I’ve noticed a trend here, the young and inexperienced women are much more likely to generalize than the older and more experienced. You need to realize that the world is way, WAY bigger than your random, trivial experience.


  211. To Hei

    …and i’m sorry if i offended you, because looking back-this was a pretty bitchy post.

    I am not easily offended.. Some topics invariably have emotional push buttons.

    that’s was geared to women anyhow. not you.

    If I said something derogatory about black women and said the message was only for men would you remain silent? Hopefully not.

    i’m young

    I’m not.. unfortunately.

    I’ll note with some irony that your post along with a number of posts by other women lends support to some of my earlier discussion on the subject. I know there are black women interested in dating white men but I think the percentage is quite a bit smaller than the percentage for Asian women interested in dating white men, hence one of the reason, in my opinion, for the differences in out marriage rates by white men to Asian women as opposed to black women.


  212. Uncle Milton and racerealist:

    Notice any parallels between Robert Lindsay and Hei? With Hei you could tell she was writing off white maledom way too quickly. But that is just Robert Lindsay was doing to black femaledom earlier in this thread.


  213. Notice any parallels between Robert Lindsay and Hei?

    Yes I was going to bring it up in the post but opted not to. In my opinion Hei backed off her statement somewhat or at least realized it was a bit over the top. She’s fairly young and dealing with (white) guys that apparently are fairly different from her culture. If she’s Asian then I think I know some of the types of guys she’s dealing with. I suspect if she were white she would see them coming and shut them down.


  214. Hei:
    I’m young too, and ethnic, and a woman. I have been hurt by white guys in the past, and I can tell you for a fact that any other guy from any other race is just as capable of being a complete asshole. But, that doesn’t mean you should steer clear of that race. It means you should steer clear of men like those. I’ve learned some common traits that differentiate the assholes from the princes. They are kind of hard to explain, so I won’t try, it’s more of something you need to figure out for yourself.

    You and your friend shouldn’t let past hurts get in y’alls way. Who knows, the love of y’alls lives may be a white guy, but if you write them off as bastards from the get-go, then there’s really no chance of finding that out.

    I say that your friend should probably take her time when she’s thinking about dating someone, and get to know them as a person even before they date. Usually the guy’s less savory traits will come out as he gets sick of trying to impress you. Tell her to listen to him and his friends about how he talks about women. As for you, I think if you’d drag those SOB’s through the ringer before you even let them come close to dating her, it may save a lot of time and heartache.

    Case-in-point: I am on the verge of dating a wonderful guy. He’s as white as they come. Blonde, blue eyed, pale as a sheet. He is also a perfect gentleman. I’ve known him for a little over three or four months, and we are now good friends. He doesn’t say derogatory things about women, not even jokingly. He doesn’t keep a ‘f— list’ of women he’s done it with (I don’t know if he’s ever done it). And he treats me like a princess. Is there any way you could say that I shouldn’t take the chance of dating him if the opportunity presented itself?

    tl;dr- go into a relationship with your head first. The heart comes later.
    All white guys aren’t all bad. Find a guy who treats you like a princess, and it won’t matter what his skin color is.


  215. Hei is probably a Black woman who’s really racist. That’s my 2 cents.

    La Reyna


  216. Erin said: “I have been hurt by white guys in the past, and I can tell you for a fact that any other guy from any other race is just as capable of being a complete asshole.”

    Amen to that. I’ve met plenty of jerks of all colors and really nice guys come in a diverse set as well. Same for women, by the way.

    Erin, he sounds like my husband. It’s often the quiet, intelligent, sane, NORMAL ones that women overlook. Strangely, even if they’re really good looking. Too many women are attracted to macho womanizers and then are surprised when they turn into macho womanizers.

    I think some women watch/read too many stupid romances in which life is always chaotic and exciting and they seek that in their relationships. But, I can tell you from experience, the best marriages are between people who are friends and enjoy spending time together, who discuss their future and make plans together.

    I don’t think Hei is a racist. She back-tracked too quickly for that. Sounds more like she’s been burned a few times.

    Hei:

    My top 10 signs you should run from him:

    1) Erin’s: he brags about past sexual conquests or women he’d like to have sex with
    2) Mine: he won’t introduce you to people who are important to him
    3) He has trouble making time for you. He seems very busy all of the time (work, hobbies, socializing, whatever)
    4) He doesn’t offer to pay for dates. Even if YOU want to pay, he should at least offer. He’s broke all of the time.
    5) He has a weird relationship with his mother (overly attached or hates her guts). Compares you negatively to his mother.
    6) Arguments over specific topics degrade into personal attacks or physical violence. Or he gives you the silent treatment or is otherwise passive-aggressive.
    7) He’s chronically late or he doesn’t call to warn you that he’s going to be late
    8 ) He doesn’t listen attentively when you speak directly to him. He’s constantly glued to electronic media (computers, TVs, Wifi’s, etc).
    9) He’s secretive while texting or calling on the phone. If his phone rings, he snatches it up and runs to the other room to speak.
    10) He uses pornography, drinks alcohol to excess, uses drugs, or gambles regularly.

    In other words: if it looks like a jerk, and it sounds like a jerk: it’s a jerk. If he’s a nice guy and he likes you, he’ll treat you accordingly. That is, if you are a nice girl. If you’re a jerk then you don’t deserve any better, of course.


  217. To sedlmeier1:

    Re:

    It’s often the quiet, intelligent, sane, NORMAL ones that women overlook. Strangely, even if they’re really good looking. Too many women are attracted to macho womanizers and then are surprised when they turn into macho womanizers.

    And your top ten signs are excellent points.


  218. I agree about the ten signs, but I would add that some are way worse than others.

    VERY BAD: Not showing you to the important people in his life; turning a simple argument into a personal attack.

    ANNOYING BUT HARMLESS: Showing up late; trying to watch television or surf the Internet while talking to you. Bad manners, certainly, but it is not a sign of something worse.


  219. racrealist (#210):

    American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

    AmRen’s ideology may mirror, to a degree, those of NCLR and NAACP (or as I like to call them, NAAAA), but I don’t think it can be considered a part of the race industry. What makes the race industry an industry is the fact that they have full support of the government, the law and legal profession, most of the opinion-makers in the media and academia, and the educational complex. AmRen, by contrast, is truly a marginal phenomenon, still a fringe organization 19 years after its first conference.

    Not that their obscurity isn’t largely their own fault or is entirely undeserved, but that is a separate discussion.


  220. TO THE WHITE AND CONFUSED MEN
    ‘Being neither “ethnic” nor a woman, you really wouldn’t understand, would you?’ ~Hei

    Hello all…
    I am an educated, Afro rocking, chocolate skinned Sista who happens to be engaged to a White man, … I know that my description alone would scare some insecure White folk (especially the afro and educated part), but I don’t care, and I am proud of who I am, even though there are so many ‘Lost Ones’ in this country…

    I occasionally encounter blatant discrimination from men and White folk in general…and during those times, I feel that deep down my fiancé doesn’t understand where I am coming from… because he is a man AND he is White…

    It’s called intersectionality AND positionality… in other words our gender and race place us at different points in the social landscape and often people treat us differently…which means that we have different LIVED experiences…

    However, the fact that my fiancé can empathize and ‘go through the trials’ with me, reflects his love and respect for me…

    THAT BEING SAID…I find it hard for ANYONE (ex. the several White men on this forum) to speak on topics such as race UNLESS YOU SHARE THE SAME POSITIONALITY AS THE PERSON YOU ARE TRYING TO COMMENT ON… or unless you can empathize with them…

    From what I’ve read, you don’t know ANY of us intimately (chuckle) or vaguely… you hold Sapphire, Welfare Queen, Ghetto, Angry Black Woman stereotypes about us (when in reality Black Woman are so diverse, that it’s actually quite hard to group us – I should know, I’m a Black Female social scientist)

    You think that your maleness AND whiteness can grant you license to spew you’re *knowledge*…

    Oh please… the best thing you can do is work on yourselves, make sure that you deal with all of your *issues* before you make generalizations about an entire group that you don’t empathize with and you have nothing in common with…

    you’re not trying to understand, you’re trying to TEACH us what it means to be a BLACK WOMAN, and let me tell you something White and Confused MEN, unless you are a Black Woman, you can’t teach me ANYTHING AND YOUR COMMENTARY ISN’T EVEN VALID…


  221. Babybrown,

    I agree, but I would take it a step further:

    To tell you the truth, even a lot of black women don’t understand what life is like for other black women. And what about all of us “brown” women? Our life is different again. And then you have to consider social class. I have a very dark-skinned, college-educated, married-to-a-rich white man cousin who’s life is a cake-walk compared to mine. And mine is easy-street compared to what my grandmother went through, or even what my white mother went through.

    I still find it interesting to read what the white guys think about us. My own husband is so empathetic with me that I don’t think he could be very objective.


  222. abagond: “ANNOYING BUT HARMLESS: Showing up late; trying to watch television or surf the Internet while talking to you. Bad manners, certainly, but it is not a sign of something worse.”

    Ah, but it’s the broken-windows concept, isn’t it? Sometimes it’s the small things that let you see someone’s true character. The top ten list is based on my own experiences (yeah, I’ve dated some REAL jerks — we’re all young and dumb once) and those of my friends.

    The showing up late was actually because he was dating ANOTHER WOMAN at the same time and had trouble extricating himself from her (also the reason why he was very secretive with his cell-phone, seemed to be very “busy”, and didn’t want me to meet his family — they only knew about the other girl). That man barked! What a dog. But he was a sweet-talker and could sell snow to the Eskimos. And lie through his teeth.
    And a friend of mine’s husband started showing up late on visits (he worked elsewhere) and it turned out that he was arriving on time but seeing HIS GIRLFRIEND FIRST. Oh, yeah. Another barker…

    And the electronic media thing was from her husband as well. Met the girlfriend online and was constantly on the computer chatting at her. And checking out porn. He would rather look at porn than have sex. Woof, woof, woof.

    That kind of flaw seems small at first (when they’re on their best behaviour) but it gets rapidly worse…

    Here’s another good list:

    http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/love/package.jsp?name=fte/badboyfriend/badboyfriend


  223. And the electronic media thing is because it’s a list of things you can tell right from the beginning. At first, it’s just that he gets really into watching TV, or playing World of Warcraft. Then it’s that he’d rather do that than talk to you. Then it’s that he stays up all night playing computer games and watching porn. It’s a slippery slope.

    Normally when someone falls in love they become a bit obsessed with the other person and can’t get enough of them. This can go on for months. If they skip that phase: run!


  224. babybrown:

    I don’t see a lot of white men here trying to say what all black women think, but I do see a lot of non-white-males trying to tell everyone what white men think. Your evidently hostile attitude toward white people (especially men) makes me pity your obviously white-guilt-ridden submissive fiance. The fact that you feel he must ‘go through trials’ to be able to understand you just shows your lack of respect for him as an individual human being. If you think that I can’t teach you anything, but you can apparently teach me plenty, then you are not worth an instant of my time. Your attitude makes you extremely undesirable to all but the most pathetic masochists among white men.

    sedlmeier1:

    Lists are like stereotypes, they can save you some time in aggregate, but they are likely to filter out some worthy candidates and admit some unworthy ones. Much better I think is a general strategy of being open but cautious, and being objective and realistic about your dating prospects. The feminist ideology of jumping into bed with anyone who can keep you interested for a night just leads to emotional catastrophes and damaging consequences. I think that most women can objectively tell the good men from the bad after a few dates, but too many become emotionally invested before they are capable of making an honest assessment. As much as liberal American society tries to deny it, sexual intimacy is emotionally bonding for women while for men it is frequently an end to itself. After all, why buy the cow if you get the mil for free?


  225. racerealist, LOL… silly man, I think that you see any intelligent Black woman as being a threat… and that’s what makes you WEAK, CONFUSED AND SAD… I laugh at your attempt to understand what goes on in my life or household with my man, who is obviously more man, more understanding, intelligent and amazing then your small mind (and probably matching small member) will ever be… little man you aren’t worth any other response from my Queendom…

    sedlmeier1, thank you Queen for understanding my point and perspective about positionality… some of these simple minded folk, won’t ever get it, and there lies the problem… thanks sis ;)


  226. Thanks, babybrown, for proving beyond any doubt that you’re a bigot. By refusing to respond to my points (which were no more than observations based on what you posted) you show that you’re closed-minded and happy to be so.


  227. Babybrown did make an excellent point in comment #242: black women and white men tend to talk past each other because their experience of American society is so different.

    The same is true for black men and white women, but the distance is not so vast. It is far more bridgeable.

    White men live in a world where most of the messages are made by (or at least paid for by) other white men, so they think they are right. So much so that they are often condescending to those who do not agree with the words that fall from their lips. I have seen plenty of that here.


  228. racerealist said:

    Thanks, babybrown, for proving beyond any doubt that you’re a bigot. By refusing to respond to my points (which were no more than observations based on what you posted) you show that you’re closed-minded and happy to be so.

    Get real. You tried to derail her and it worked:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/derailing-for-dummies/


  229. sedlmeier1: I stand corrected about men who surf the net while their wives and girlfriends try to talk to them. It does not prove anything, but it is a red flag that should be checked out.


  230. Mynameismyname, Davida and Erin:

    I sent the three of you Lynette’s dissertation about four days ago. If you did not get it or if you have trouble opening it, please send me an email and I will resend it. I used whatever email address it is you give my blog when you write a comment.


  231. on Sun 12 Apr 2009 at 04:35:15 mynameisnyname

    I got the email. I meant to thank you earlier! So, I’ll think you now: THANKS! LOL. Happy Easter Sunday.


  232. Abagond, are you referring to Lynette’s dissertation on African-American body image? I think I would like to read it too.


  233. abagond- I’ve got the file, I think I opened it in a hurry and didn’t reply. Sorry about that. I haven’t quite started reading though, it’s almost finals, I’m buckling down.


  234. I just sent it.


  235. Thanks Abagond, I received it!

    Lynette:
    Judging by the first few pages I read so far, I expect to really enjoy reading your paper. I am very interested in this topic and I am delighted that you put this research and analysis into it. If I have any questions or comments, would you prefer I put them in this blog or send to you directly?


  236. Abagond, could you start a separate thread on Lynette’s dissertation? I think it is worthy of a dedicated discussion. Also, I would prefer not to mix the subject of her paper with the topic of this thread. Thanks.


  237. That is a good idea. Best would be if Lynette did a guest blog on it (500 words long!) Or, if she does not mind, I can write my own 500-word summary of her dissertation. Once posted then we can discuss. Issues of black female body image run though many of the comments made on this blog, so it is well worth talking about.


  238. I was also wondering if Lynette would be willing to write a summarized version of her dissertation. Yes, the body image theme does get touched upon in this thread and other threads. But I think it would be ideal to have a dedicated thread, because it really is a separate issue from this particular thread’s topic.


  239. Right, I agree: the summary, whether she writes it or I do, will become a blog post of its own. It would not appear here as a comment where it would get lost or create confusion. It would be its own post with its own comments.


  240. Very interesting discussion. I have always wondered why white men are reluctant to date black women not just in America but in the UK as well. The largest number of interracial relationships in the UK occur between BM/WW and this leaves many Black women without partners. Also white men in the UK are not very forthcoming in dating/marrying BW. Off the topic, I’m very interested in reading Lynette’s dissertation in full, I strongly feel this could relate to Black women in the UK.


  241. Abagond,

    Could you please send me a copy of Lynette’s dissertation?

    Blackgirl UK


  242. If it is all right with Lynette. She has not given me blanket permission to send it to just anyone who asks.


  243. Lynette:

    It would be better if you wrote the summary since it is more likely to express your ideas just right, but I am willing to do it if you want.

    If I did it, I would send you the draft and you would tell me if it needs any changing.

    The summary has to be 500 words, give or take 20 words. If you send more than that, then I will edit it down to that size. That is the format of my blog.


  244. I will want to put a picture with it. If you have one in mind, send that too.


  245. If you give it to me within the next two hours, I will post it today. Otherwise I will post it within 24 hours after you send it.


  246. Cool. I look forward to it.


  247. BlackgirlUK Says:
    “I have always wondered why white men are reluctant to date black women not just in America but in the UK as well. The largest number of interracial relationships in the UK occur between BM/WW and this leaves many Black women without partners. Also white men in the UK are not very forthcoming in dating/marrying BW.”

    BlackgirlUK, check out this site:

    ebonywomenandivorymen.com


  248. Interesting link…


  249. That thesis sounds very interesting. I’d love to read it as well. Looking forward to the post.


  250. wow wat an interesting thread i have to say as a black women i dont find white men attractive either they lack something the manliness. Why are people bothered so what black women white men dont find you attractive its not the end of the world there is other races out there and to be frank whats so special about them? we all knw its not the size of their you know what so leave them be!


  251. Bg2009, it doesn’t phase me who you are attracted to at all. Your preference is entirely your own and I respect it. If you just left at that, I would be very happy.

    But I could do without denigrating comments like “they lack something the manliness” and “we all know its not the size of their you know what.”

    You know full well those were gratuitously insulting comments and I know you would not appreciate such comments directed at you. Have a nice day.


  252. To expand on my previous comment, Lynette is an African American woman who said white men were not an option for her. However, in contrast to Bg2009, she did not make any disparaging remarks. Not only that, I have enjoyed her contributions to this blog.


  253. on Wed 15 Apr 2009 at 01:21:11 mynameisnyname

    I agree with you, AWG, now you see how the black posters on this board felt when ignorant white trolls like “Robert Lindsay”, “Racerealist” and others disparged black women as being ugly, unfeminine, and stupid when explaining why he consider black females as romantic partners.

    You can have a preference without discriminating or disparging something else.


  254. “we all know its not the size of their you know what.”

    Where do they get this stuff?


  255. Mynameisnyname, I don’t like bigoted statements, regardless of what ethnicity it is directed toward. I want everyone held to the same standard.


  256. Once again, please point out where I said any of those things. Or do you just enjoy slandering people for no reason?


  257. on Wed 15 Apr 2009 at 14:24:24 mynameismyname

    You essentially said those things. I didn’t quote you verbatim, but that was the gist of your attack.

    Yes, AGW, bigotry is ugly no matter who it’s directed is.


  258. Point out where I “essentially” said those things.


  259. There you go again with your “facts”, and “logic”, and “standards of evidence”, oppressor.


  260. mynameismyname:

    Racerealist at times was trollish, sometimes talked like a white racist and even called us names, but as far as I can remember he never put down black women. In fact, he even questioned some of what Robert Lindsay was saying in that regard. You might be mixing him up with Mike.


  261. Still waiting for an apology.

    Oh and thanks for piling on with the baseless name-calling, abagond.


  262. Racerealist, I don’t know what you said that could be rationally interpreted as racist. One poster accused me of believing in white supremacy without presenting any evidence. Beats me.


  263. on Thu 16 Apr 2009 at 03:43:25 mynameisnyname

    Yeah, I may be mistaking him with “Mike” but still he comes off just as equally racist as “Mike”, “Robert Lindsay”, “Noserviam” and the crew.


  264. Gee, that’s not much of an apology considering you put words in my mouth, then repeated the assertion without checking the easily available facts.

    I know why you guys do this – you don’t like my pseudonym or the website it links to. Those two things create a preconceived notion about what I must believe, so before I posted anything you guys got the idea that I had “said” all the things you ascribe to me.

    All I’ve done is

    1. point out the hypocrisy and racism of people who make generalizations about whites or denigrate white men and women (since abagond has no interest in doing it)

    2. point out that there may be reasons for the black/white marriage gap other than white male racism, such as (shocker) that black women might not be terribly interested in marrying white men

    I know it’s difficult to get through a whole paragraph without having your eyes glaze over and typing “RACIST!!!” in the comment box, so I’ll understand if you want to keep labeling me as such.


  265. I don’t see anything wrong with your points. I have frequently commented about the hypocrisy of those who make generalizations and outright hateful statements toward white people. I would be just as offended if such statements are made toward non-white people. I seek consistency and holding everyone to the same standard. I don’t know how anyone can find anything wrong with that.


  266. I think I assumed racerealist is racist because he comes off as very condescending. He has also been nasty to me, mynameismyname and Ann in part I and to babybrown here in part II. If he has been likewise nasty to (presumable) whites, I would like to have it pointed out to me.


  267. I came upon this conversation, and thought I should make a comment.
    I am mostly Caucasian and I know my parents told me not to look on the outside of a woman/person and I have that I try to go by that philosophy. However I have always found myself always attracted to black or dark skinned women, I am not religious either; however I find myself having healthier relationships with people who are.
    As to why Black women and White men are concerned… I have known many friends who are in Interracial Relationships. The main impeding factor for more Interracial relationships is they aren’t used to someone different, maybe fear on both sides.
    It’s funny how people stereotype people in the military (However Didn’t read anyone on this post doing it) as racist or ignorant. Yet The per-capita number of interracial relationships in the military is much higher and that I think is a great thing. :-)


  268. aba: I couldn’t think of any better place to put this.

    But I recently just had a blip of thought about how much i’ve been conditioned to see the black woman in the movies as being the ‘crazy black bitch’. It’s a little frightening.

    Have you seen trailers for the move Obsessed? It’s coming out pretty soon. I watched it and was angry because I thought that Beyonce was the one portraying the stalker, not the blond woman. I thought that since he was a rich man, then the white woman (she was well dressed while the picture of Beyonce was of her looking angry in a drab sweater.)Turns out, Mr. Man and Beyonce are happily married, while Blondy is the home-wrecking, stalking tramp. I had to do a lot of digging to get to that answer anyhow. The Synopsis on IMDB was pointedly vague.

    What do you think? You could probably find the trailer on Youtube or something. Do you think this conditioning may have something to do with the problem stated above?


  269. “Yet The per-capita number of interracial relationships in the military is much higher and that I think is a great thing.”

    Good comment.

    The average IQ is higher and the murder rate is much lower, as well. A lot of people don’t know much about the military; only what they read in the newspapers.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/wm1244.cfm


  270. Thanks abagond… Oh no, ‘racerealist’ didn’t derail me, he just isn’t worth my time and I had to shut him down, he is so corny and he truly bores me :)

    I haven’t gone anywhere ;)


  271. oh good.


  272. Erin: I saw a trailer for “Obsessed” about a month ago. I am not sure if it is the one you saw, but in that one I thought that the white woman was the stalker and Beyonce was the wife. However from the poster, not looking at it too closely, it seemed like Beyonce was the obsessed one.

    Here is the trailer that I saw:


  273. Black&German I remember that comment Kerry made. It made me think… really? And he was in the Military. I think he personally has a low opinion of Military members.

    Erin; I saw two different versions of the trailer for Obsessed and I didn’t get that impression at all. Maybe you saw a different version altogether. I seen Ali Larter in Heroes and she has a split personality. I think she likes playing the bad girl.


  274. Hmm, perhaps. The trailer I saw had a lot of shots of the blonde, happy and smiling, her in the red dress, etc. Then it had Beyonce’s phone conversation where her friend goes “don’t be afraid to show ‘em you crazy”. Cut to title shot.

    Interesting.


  275. Mike reminds me of many white men I met while in University in a northern state, He assumes all black people act one certain way before even meeting them. Most whites assumed what I would act like before knowing me at all,which I found insulting, since they had no clue what my interests are and were there fore very wrong to assume what even my cultural background is. Many white seem to think low-income and minority (code for black) is one word.


  276. At one point, most blacks were poor. I think it’s just that white people haven’t noticed the change.


  277. I found this blog quite by accident but admit that the comments are intriguing. I was foolishly looking for something that would help me figure out what signs to look for that a beautiful woman at work might be open to dating outside of her race. That may mean that I’ve forgotten that women are women and I should just look for signs that she is open to dating me. This particular black woman is unbelievably intelligent, beautiful and a truly good person. Sexy doesn’t do her justice. I don’t know of a single executive who wouldn’t want the privilege of dating her. We’re all married but I’m officially divorced in less than two weeks if all goes well. And I am nervous about asking her out. I’m an executive and she is a couple of levels away from being one. She has never done anything inappropriate but I think she may flirt with me. Wish me luck. I would date her, marry her if we got to that stage, and have 2.5 children with her if that’s what she wanted. I’ve worked with her for more than two years and always admired her. During the last six months I see her differently. Nothing ghetto, nothing assimilated. Just a well-traveled brilliant women with impeccable manners and taste. Wish me luck.


  278. You might want to read this from the Funky Brown Chick so that you do not do anything completely boneheaded:

    http://funkybrownchick.com/2009/04/20/how-to-date-a-black-woman/

    Good luck!


  279. I believe that white men ARE interested in dating black woman…mostly if they can have the attractive ones.

    I’ve personally met many white men that (really) are VERY attracted to black women but, they’ve shown little to NO interset in black women who carry EXTRA weight.

    I know it sounds very shallow, however, when two people meet for the first time, initially, there is a PHYSICAL attraction. Once they get to know each other the physical attraction becomes secondary.

    I’m sorry if I offended anyone, that is not my intent. I just wanted to comment on what I’ve witnessed personally.


  280. sk, what is it that constitutes ‘Extra Weight’ Extra weight according to what? Because there are Black women who look like blueberries with legs who have white husbands/boyfriends, etc. And there are black women who look like Halle Berry who can’t ge a white man to save their life.

    So what is this ‘extra weight’? Is it extra according to western standards? Is it the ‘big butt’ or the ‘curves’? I don’t think there’s ever any one reason why anyone won’t date anyone, least of all the idea of ‘Extra Weight’.


  281. As I stated earlier…again, my intent was merely to pass along what I’ve witnessed personally! Erin, of course I’m referring to western standards as that is where I reside…

    Halle Berry is HALF black and I believe is currently in a long term relationship with a WHITE Canadian man; her dating problems were with Black men…

    I have three brothers and NONE of them or their friends have EVER been remotely interested in a “blueberry” of ANY race…so I guess you are correct, it has nothing to do with race or EXTRA WEIGHT…

    In reality, there is someone out there for everyone.


  282. sk: Among well-known black women, which ones would you say have extra weight and which ones do not? I am interested in where it is you draw the line.


  283. on Fri 15 May 2009 at 20:51:05 mynameismyname

    Well, SK, most white women aren’t exactly a size two either. In fact, the average woman is what, a size 14? Like Abagond asked, what do you define as “thin” and “extra weight”? I’m curious.

    Halle Berry was a bad example. And emphasizing that she’s “half black” as you say, proves what? That model she’s with was not her first white man, so she obviously has problems with men. Be they black or white.


  284. 1. Extra weight as in Hour Glass shape, Pear

    shape, or Apple shape?

    2. Extra Weight as in Beyonce? OR Extra Weight

    as in Monique?


  285. I didn’t say Halle Berry. I said looked like Halle Berry, implying that they were considered more beautiful than most. Her love life and ancestry had nothing to do with my argument. I’ll restate. There are black women of every shape and size paired with white men.

    Extra weight on a black woman has nothing to do with it, because “extra weight” on a white woman probably has the same effect. I’ve seen and heard guys say that they’d never date a woman who’s too fat, skinny, or of a certain race, but I’ve never seen or heard a guy say “Oh, I only like the fat chicks if they’re white. Black girls have to be extra thin for me to date them.” or similar.


  286. Has anyone ever heard the term she’s “thick” or he’s “portly” this is just a nice way of saying your “fat” or overweight.

    The average woman is a size 14? I don’t think so…

    “Extra weight as in Monique” – yes, not a healthy look.
    “Beyonce” is a big girl, but she’s a healthy size and her look is a great one.


  287. SK: My own take on the thin/thick/fat thing:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/thick-black-women/


  288. Abagond, your link was interesting…
    I do “get” your point…

    I agree/disagree with some of your perceptions/comments. For example:

    You catergorized Jennifer Lopez as “white” when she clearly is not (nor is she black)However, I would agree she is “thick” just as is Beyonce.

    Your list and definition of “thin” women is severly flawed…Diana Ross, Kate Moss are “thin” Amerie has a very shapely body style…whereas Jennifer Hudson is listed as “thick” in reality she mostly borders on being fat – still she is a very BEAUTIFUL woman.

    Also, you separated black from white, why? The color (or lack there of) has nothing to do with the state of being thin, thick or fat…race does not determine which catergory a woman fits/falls.

    Since society is procreating rapidly with different races/nationalities than their own, my argument is much more valid than yours. Eventually, when we look at a woman we won’t be able to catergorize her body by her race as we won’t be sure of EXACTLY what her ethinicity is…


  289. Ha! Abagond strikes again with the magnetic posts.
    Quite frankly, I think there exists a preconceived notion of what “Black” means(too much stock tends to be placed in it), too often is it interchangeable for words like poor, uneducated, and so forth so the needling starts. While there is no substitute for having good sense, stressing racial stereotypes and prescribed gender roles will only cause problems because you’re hung up on everything the person is not(or what you think they’re not) so you can’t see everything they are and that kills any chance of healthy communication on a human level, communication devoid of the baggage of color. When we stop approaching things this way, we’ll stop condemning groups of people. In this case, white men and black women.


  290. on Sat 16 May 2009 at 23:38:08 mynameismyname

    SK calling Jennifer Hudson “fat” proves Abagond’s point.

    I agree, Lopez hardly qualifies as “white”. At least, in the U.S. She’s actually a Puerto Rican “muluta”- Afro-Irberian (probably with some Taino roots also), like most of her fellow Boricuas in the States.

    The vast majority of Americans procreate with people of their same racial background. But yeah, the smaller minority of people who don’t is growing and is more visible than ever.

    Yes, the average woman in America is a size 14. Whether that’s “thin”, “thick” or “fat”, depends on individual perception. And the actual woman. Every woman carries weight differently.


  291. SK:

    1. Jennifer Lopez, etc: Oh yeah, sorry. I used to count Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Wasians as white. I have since learned that they are not pure enough. My mistake. I replaced Jennifer Lopez with Sophia Loren. Thanks.

    2. In regard to particular women:

    Kate Moss – I agree she is thin, but I said that in the post.

    Diana Ross – I said nothing about her (did I?), but I agree that she is thin.

    Amerie – thin, not even close to thick. A sign of this is the way she plays up her legs.

    Jennifer Hudson – at the upper end of thick, but still thick.

    3. I wrote the post as “thick black women” and not “thick women” because that post came from looking at what keywords people were hitting this blog with. They wanted “thick black women”, not “thick women”. And besides, I could not think of many famous thick women of other races, so I went with it.


  292. I’m a bw who is attracted to white males. I care about myself so I refuse to eat McDonald’s and other junk fast foods, I excercise and pamper myself. Many men of all races are turned off by fat women because they appear to be sloppy and non-healthy. Even bm that’s why they date shapely ww. I’ve heard men say that big, heavy women appear less feminine. Face facts, that’s the way of the world. I prefer to be shapely. To each his own…


  293. I say F’em…and I mean that in the negative figurative sense. I don’t and never will want a “white” man regardless of his mindset racist or otherwise. I don’t exist for his approval or disapproval. The fact that a study was done shows me how low this society can sink, granted it has sunk lower many times on many levels.

    The crux of the issue is the viability of a black male-female relationship that will develop into a life-long, positive union, leading to an unbreakable family structure. As it stands in this society every device known and unknown to humans has been used to degrade, defile, and destroy our black men, leaving us without candidates for relationships or marriage. Far too many black man have become the roles created for them by this society and so have many of us black women. The end result, genocide.

    No, I don’t care how many or even if some white male has thoughts about black women. The truth is there is no room for that nonsense at least not in my world where I am about creating a family, a nation…one that is abounding in love, power and wealth for and by people the color of me and mine. In that world there is no room for white outsiders. They have their world and their women, and their women are given every privilege there is pretty much, so I say save the studies for the history books as they do not mean diddly to me. I’m sure other happy-to-be-dark and lovely sistas will agree. For me it’s the wise, powerful, loving black man as lover, friend, husband, father.


  294. It is a great thing that we can all share our opinions and speak or write what is on our minds……
    I don’t have much else to say. Race in America is huge; but regardless of how other people view who I date or Marry It ultimately will come down to our happiness and strength of relationship and less based on the color of our skin.

    A reminder for memorial day, to the people who helped show me that color does not determine quality:

    [audio src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/14taps.mp3" /]


  295. alkema is right! through the last six year I’ve been married to a beautiful BW, The color hue
    disappears as you go through the difficulties that life will throw at you. We are not blind to the racism that exists in the world but we refuse to allow it to impact the commitment and love that we share. Men and women come in all different shapes, sizes, and yes colors; once we realize that we can be attracted to any one in that spectrum, and stop making such a big fuss about who we choose as a mate, the easier it will be for racial healing to take place.


  296. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 04:23:00 apes spread aids

    hello everyone……..thought i’d give a racists point of view

    personally, i dont give a fuck about what any of u coons think.

    black girls are just not attractive and that’s a fact. it’s not your skin………but your face. blacks have ape-looking faces with wide gorilla noses.
    plus, most of you smell.

    heh you obviously don’t know europeans. eastern europe is one of the most racist places in the world. im from poland now living in the u.s. and slavs hate blacks.

    my white brothers in russia, poland, serbia, and crotia are doing a great job of keeping you out of their country.

    the russians even post their beatings online so all non-whites fear ;)

    anyway, i dont really give a shit about what any you think. white nationalism is on the rise and we’re here to stay. the souther poverty law center even reports a drastic increase in white nationalism across europe and america.

    they estimate there are 150+ skinhead gangs alone in the u.s. which is more than all black gangs combined

    SIEG HEIL!!!! HEIL HITLER!!!! WPWW!!!! 14/88

    kris

    my white brothers in russia


  297. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 04:36:22 apes spread aids

    fear us coons!!!!!!

    SIEG HEIL
    SIEG HEIL
    SIEG HEIL

    ***********and if the coon who owns this website deletes my comments then this shows he is fearful. he is fearful of the truth that we are rising!!!!

    only a matter of time before new concentration camps are open….and this time filled with blacks!!!! ;)


  298. No, it just means you are way off topic.


  299. Your parents must be very proud….


  300. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 04:44:04 apes spread aids

    ummm how do i post videos? ill show you some scary shit of my brothers in russia trained in knife-to-knife combat and paramilitary tactics. it’s very dangerous for a coon to go to russia.

    in america, the neo-nazis use a different approach. they are infiltrating the military and becoming trained.

    god i wish i could you everything going on!!!! im so happy =)

    you coons have a lot to fear within the next 10-15 years….that’s all i can say

    SIEG HEIL!


  301. This ape spreads aids person is certifiably pitiful. You’re the one who feels threatened dude.


  302. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 04:48:08 apes spread aids

    hah i dont care what you guys think.

    then call all of eastern europe pitiful because the neo-nazi movements are taking 50% of vote in serbia and croatia!


  303. Mr Ape:

    Your first comment comparing black women to gorillas was, lamentably, on topic. But your neo-Nazi call-to-arms is not. If you persist I will have you marked as a source of spam.


  304. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 04:56:00 apes spread aids

    okay why i find black women ugly.

    1. they have ape faces
    2. they have nasty ass hair
    3. most have fake hair
    4. they smell like shit
    5. they all look the same (brown apes_
    6. they have gorilla noses

    all i love is pure white women!!!! nothin better than a blue eyed or green eyed white women ;)


  305. The internet is way too anonymous I’d like to know your age and link to other garbage you insist on posting, if only to prove my hypothesis correct.
    I’ll bet your underage and hear that from family members and lack most ability to critically think for yourself.

    Well at least I have one nailed…


  306. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 05:06:06 apes spread aids

    how do i upload a picture of my self?

    damn im a slav ready to gun down some niggers for real

    i bet yah love that mp5 i hold in my hands too


  307. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 05:07:24 apes spread aids

    anonymous?????

    wtf lol ill tell you my name, where i live, and show you a picture of myself

    like i give a shit………no nigger can touch me, unless they wanna be eating bullets from a mac10 or mp5

    SIEG HEIL!!!


  308. pathetic, upload your picture if you can figure it out. While your at it tell everyone why you hate people that don’t look like you. What is the reason?


  309. @ apes spread aids: I’m sorry if I missed something but, where do all these “pure” people exist? Are you doing a dna test on these pure blood white women, to make sure they are all white lol? Well good luck on your search because more than likely you won’t find any..people have been mixing since the beginning of time, which means more than likely your mixed as well, hell you may even be mixed with a little “ape” blood (as you call it) yourself….


  310. Your comments, dear sir, are beyond ridiculous. It’s bordering on absurd.

    There are beautiful and not-so-beautiful women of all races. You say you love pure, blue eyed/green eyed white women? That’s your preference then fine. Now please get over yourself. We get it.


  311. I’m jealous this dweeb gets all kinds of attention and I post something and lucky to get one comment… lol I guess my posts are a bit boring.


  312. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 05:17:47 apes spread aids

    how do i upload a video? and how do i upload a picture?

    i would really love to show you niggers your fate. GAS CHAMBERS

    because russia for russians! poland for polish! etc

    the rest of you niggers can go back to africa and die from AIDS or famine

    dun call me sir hun…….im in my early 20s


  313. You’re certainly correct, apes. I shouldn’t address you as sir. It’s a title fit for only people worthy of respect.


  314. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 09:38:37 lifeisannoying

    See where this conversations goes, with neo nazi’s proclaimations, black women dont want them , they don’t like us so when can this thread end.


  315. once again, because of one sicko, the whole tone of the thread gets destroyed. it’s a shame.


  316. sk said:

    I believe that white men ARE interested in dating black woman…mostly if they can have the attractive ones.

    What the fuck do you mean by “if they can find the attractive ones” Please expand on this.


  317. abagond,
    How is it that an obvious ANTI-BW RACIST is being allowed to spew his DISGUSTING ANTI-BW HATE on this thread? What is the point of that?


  318. on Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 20:33:37 Your point is?

    to apes spread aids:
    I hope you die.


  319. To “Apes spread Aids” – Slavic culture – historically speaking – were brutish thugs usefull to their clan chiefs as fodder for noblemens wars. Young men such as yourself are closer to animals then a person of african race. You certainly have not moved beyound the slavic, tribal mentallity – waring with your neighboring country men, bashing in each others brains with poorly made broad swords. Sad really.

    And I say this as a German / Scottish women with green eyes and white skin (which for some odd reason you seem to hold in high regard)married to a German/welsh man – and mother of three blonde haired / blue eyed boys…

    You keep saying Hiel Hilter – why – he committed suicide, over extened his resources and crippled his country for years to come. He was by no means a great leader – but a man filled with hate and evil. He was a brillant speaker but was an idiot in other things…he over estimated the comman soilder and left them out in the field to starve to death. And had he not killed himself – would have died very quickly from an american snipper rifle or at the hands of his own people. oh and he had brown eyes and brown hair…

    To bring this post back on topic.
    I firmly believe that the numbers of BW / WM relationships is low because of a cultural difference coupled with perceived backlash of inter racial relationships. Also, black women – be it culture or necessity – tend to be more outspoken and forceful then women of other races..the heads of households.

    While a black men see’s a strong black women as a mate potential, it does not detract from his masculinity. Im other cultures, not just white…a powerful women does detract from her male spouse. which is odd really. Its almost as if they perceive a set level of power in each relationship and its sliding scale of power almost…where if a womens power is high, then the mans is less.

    I dont think that a black womens appearance is what keeps men of other races from being interested…maybe for a few. But it is more cultural. Their are amazingly beautiful black women and some really ugly ones. But just turn on Cops to see some really AWFUL, FAT bleach blond haired white women who feel out of the ugly tree and hit every ugly branch and ugly stick on the way down. Probably see “Mr. Aids” girlfriend as well.

    You sir are a hate spreading ignoramous and do not represent me in any way shape or form.


  320. Dedabets. I think your sliding scale comment is definitely on point.

    I think it’s because that one of the few matriarchal cultures is the one of the black community. Strong women are wanted are needed in a culture that’s had its men ripped away from them. So I guess that’s why we seem so over bearing and outspoken. It seems to me that the mother runs the house, at least for all of the black homes I’ve seen or been in, and a strong woman is what’s needed.

    But I don’t see why that’s such a detriment in other societies. Life insurance commercials that target men always confuse me, because it makes it seem like the family would die on the street should something happen to the man. Are women really that weak and helpless? Or is that just the way we are supposed to be in this culture?

    I fear I may have been rambling. But I completely agree with you Dedabets.


  321. Interesting theory, but what of those black women who aren’t “outspoken” or “strong” are they automatically thrown under the stereotype regardless and thus not even considered romantically by some non-black males?


  322. Women are not that week or helpless…but we are taught early to hid that strength…to pretend to be helpless. Black women – culturally had to step up …for what ever reasons…thus they assumed the dominate behavior and had to rid themselves of any helpless appearance.

    Ben franklin once said that the most powerful force in the whole world is the helplessness of a beautiful women…

    I have often changed this quote to say “perceived” helplessness…because often a womenw ho apepars helpless is doing it to make a man feel more manly.

    I admit I do it often…everything from asking help with a jar lid when I have a perfectly good jar lid opener mounted under my cabinet and I can do it just fine when he is not around to cultural things we are taught…the tilting of the head downward in a submissive posture and looking up at a man for a moment then down again…All says I am small and delicate…save me and protect me.

    In a world ruled by men..I (on purpose) send all the physical ques of sub concious submission (especially the looking in the eyes and away) and body posture…while being out going and friendly and on the surface appearing confident and dominate. A women who can make a man think conciously that she is smart and forceful and dominate and appeal to his subconcious as submissive and needing him is a women that will succeed.

    If you are simply dominate and forceful – you dont play to his subconcious programing and he feels threatened by you. Society, culture, civilization occur because of women I think…to provide us with a safe surrounding to reproduce. We drive men to do these things…its their base instinct to protect. A women who doesnt need their protection is a women who doesnt need them. And I think on a
    subconcious level – makes them fear her.

    now look who is rambeling


  323. Asha: Yes. Definitely. I can say this because I’m one of those quiet sorts of people. I’m also shy and not prone to being outgoing and friendly, nor will I speak up when I’m angry. Yet, instead of being seen as shy and somehow endearing, I’m seen as being passive aggressive. So even if I keep my mouth shut, somehow I still end up being the angry black chick.

    It’s mind boggling. I get asked all the time why I’m being so mean, when in truth, I was just being quiet and thoughtful.

    So it seems that in order to fit the ideas of a ‘nice’ attractive black woman, I have to do all my thinking silently with a big fat false smile on my face.

    end rant.

    Dedabets:

    Some women really are brainwashed into thinking that they can’t do anything, that they actually ARE helpless. That’s how deeply ingrained our society makes this ideal. If you’ve ever lived for a week with a group of girls, it comes out really quickly, that they believe they need a guy to do all sorts of things.

    Killing bugs, opening jars, building things, breaking bricks, carrying heavy objects. Girls can do this, and it shouldn’t be a danger to a woman’s femininity for her to kill (or take outside) the big scary spider.

    In a world ruled by men I don’t want a guy who’s so insecure that he can’t handle a woman who can handle herself. I don’t like being worried over, I want a guy who understands that I need him, but that I can handle it if something were to happen to him. I think the stress put on guys because of the whole damsel in distress idea is completely unfair. Imagine believing that if you left the house, your entire family, everything you loved, would wither away because the root of the home was gone.

    But the other side of the spectrum is true, definitely. If a woman is too over bearing and acts like she doesn’t need a man for anything but impregnation, what’s the reason for him to stay there? There has to be a balance found.

    Hopefully I’ll find a guy who understands that I can totally open pickle jars and de-bug the household. But that at the same time I do need him around, for emotional reasons, and to carry the groceries. ;)


  324. i consider myself a women “to ride the river with”. Its a saying from a Lois L’Amour book.
    It means she can handle herself on the frontier.

    I can hunt, live off the land, kill butgs etc. I can shot a gun better than most men. I can change a tire, bleed break lines etc. I prefer to let my husband take out the garbage…he prefers that I cook dinner etc. Our roles in our marriage are very traditional..but it doesnt mean I couldnt handle things if I had to. A women does not need to be loud and aggresively outspoken to be strong. I am more the speak softly and carry a big stick kinda girl.

    When I need to be strong and outgoing I am
    When I need to be submissive and soft …I am


  325. Two small corrections to some of the comments here:

    1. It is Louis L’Amour, not Lois L’Amour. That one letter makes a big difference in this case.

    2. Hitler saw Slavs as lesser beings and was in the process of wiping them out in Poland and Russia to make room for the Germans. So if you are a neo-Nazi Slav, please read “Mein Kampf” or at least get on the Internet and know the facts.


  326. lol – your right abagond – lois is WAY different from Louis…thanks

    On point 2 – excellent point. I almost ignored that troll all together…but hate for so called “white suprimists” idiots to go unanswered… it just…ticks me off to no end…and I didnt want you all to think i was okay with it.


  327. iam deaf man i let you know love is no matter were your heart is does not matter you love black woman if i was white but iam deaf black woman is hearing she does learn use asl sign talk with me but some time all wahite woman does want me if i were alone at home i had no good time but sex does not matter love olny in your heart went you care some time i was along i saw people all had girl friends boy friends inapple bee resnut i seem talk each other but all some woman does like me becuse she walk way from me mind not work out but most deaf people tell me silly question there say that if black woman has hiv or not quit sure deaf told me story by not going over by date a black woman but in my mind went i try1st time i had naver date black woman before iam 59 year my age is hard find me rigth preson but if white woman does get along with me that is why i get bore stay home but i look for new love people white woman thik she does not want marry a black guys becuse she said she hear about oj a running back bill runback i hear thah there kill his wife but for now today does matter you love black woman if she love white guys sex is does not matter you love in side to your heart go head date black woman but does not hurt you olny you can try work out see how you like it or not up to you but iam deaf becuse she need use asl sign that is why iam deaf if she does not want marry deaf guys that is up to them that all i know your best mr stephen page e-mailme soon ask me question bye


  328. To ape,

    Go to Hades! You have nothing positive to write on this blog except your racist/sexist hatred. Please go back to your respective country where you belong until you learn how to write civilly.


  329. “apes” enjoys posting here because he’s interested in dating BLACK women


  330. it’s basically not about the race in general. it’s about the “bad girls” of the race which they don’t like. If those BW would get their acts right, surely race wouldn’t be a problem. afterall, likeness may be based from looks, but love is developed when your partner has the “beautiful soul”. :)


  331. I lived and taught at international schools in Eastern Europe from ’05 to ’06 for 15 months. During that time, I traveled to both Croatia (Croatian men LOVE them some black women) and to Poland. Poles are friendly, but some of them are racist. I found this to be quite interesting because I visited Auschwitz and learned that more Poles (Slavs) were slaughtered by the nazis than Jews.

    In Prague, where I lived, over ninety percent of the African men were married to Czech women. My white American roommate used complain about how it was hard to meet and date Czech girls because they preferred to date an marry black guys.


  332. cheska897…I believe you’ve stated the “REAL” issue concerning this topic…


  333. on Tue 16 Jun 2009 at 23:53:00 i/r dater by default

    I find your studies and “statistics” somewhat confusing and laughable. I’m 48, a medium to dark skinned black woman and have dated interracially since age 16. In fact, I was married to a blue eyed blond Irish-American for ten years. I’ve never had a problem with white men approaching me. It’s the black men who seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women.


  334. I am a black woman well, 19 yrs old, lol, attracted to all ethnicities/races and just recently started dating a white guy.
    I wanted to make a comment regarding the statement that white guys don’t even look at black women as women. it is so true, i see it every day on the train, it’s like i’m nothing to them, they may look a bit curious but show no interest at all, and it annoys me. I also went to school upstate NY and with 83% white people, there was no interracial dating between a black woman and a white guy, it was always the other way around. Everyone hung out with their “kind” or if they didn’t fit, found some loners or hung out alone.
    Those are my experiences.


  335. Emmanuela Says:
    I am a black woman well, 19 yrs old, lol, attracted to all ethnicities/races and just recently started dating a white guy.
    I wanted to make a comment regarding the statement that white guys don’t even look at black women as women. it is so true, i see it every day on the train, it’s like i’m nothing to them, they may look a bit curious but show no interest at all, and it annoys me.

    laromana says,
    Emmanuela,
    It’s so sad to hear that a young BW in this day and age is still experiencing the ANTI-BW attitude from MOST WM of not being viewed as a woman solely because you’re Black. I’m older than you and have also endured this ANTI-BW treatment from MOST WM in America, all of my life. I look forward to the day when this ANTI-BW attitude will be destroyed and the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY OF BW will be respected by ALL WM.

    i/r dater by default Says:
    I find your studies and “statistics” somewhat confusing and laughable. I’m 48, a medium to dark skinned black woman and have dated interracially since age 16. In fact, I was married to a blue eyed blond Irish-American for ten years. I’ve never had a problem with white men approaching me. It’s the black men who seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women

    laromana says,
    i/r dater by default,
    I agree with you that BM “seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women” and I think it’s great your IRR’s with WM have been positive and even led to a long marriage. However, your individual experience with WM is NOT representative of that of MOST BW’s IRR’s with MOST WM in America.

    On a blog I belong to the question was asked “WHY DO MORE BM SEEM TO OPENLY LOVE WW THAN WM WHO OPENLY LOVE BW”
    – A WM responded, “Because most white guys that are interested in women of other races are more worried about what their peers think than in being true to themselves. That’s it.
    -Some guys would ask me some pretty crude questions about the NON-WW I dated, and they usually admitted they found her attractive, but what it boiled down to was that they were worried they would be ostracized.
    -A lot of white men have these types of hang-ups. I just don’t worry about that kind of thing, especially since I know there are a lot of guys who are jealous and wish they had the courage.

    This WM’s honest answer confirms what I and MANY BW in America, have experieced when it comes to how MOST WM treat us. They may be attracted to BW but they allow ANTI-BW COWARDICE (or the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE of others/American society) to determine whether or not to have a relationship with a BW.


  336. There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.

    Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)

    According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.

    An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003). However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless


  337. Josh…your statistics are quite interesting….who prepared your report? Probably a WHITE male…so those numbers are more than likely inflated?

    Anyhow, the question is “Why so few white men marry black women”?

    These stats only ask more questions than provide answers.

    My question is: prior to such statistical records being kept, lets say, during times of slavery – how many white men do you suppose raped, murdered, etc, etc, etc. black women and men?

    I would venture to say raped by white men against black women (slaves) was quite prevalent as there are many, many different shades of blacks…

    The above reported stats don’t give a true concise picture of “blacks”

    I know many white people (from the heart)and they are NOT superior to any other race. They have committed some of the most heinious crimes against mankind in the history of this country and throughout Europe, etc.

    I guess we can agree that blacks are far from perfect…and whites may be even further?


  338. I believe MOST white men fantasize about black women in the most sexually explicit way possible…

    I do (also) agree with laramona…the biggest problem for white men is (most) are so insecure within themselves and worry about their peers – they cannot handle the pressure, they crumble like a cracker…(no pun intended).

    I’ve dated both white and black. Both (equally) have huge but different “hang ups”

    By experience, one is NO better than the other…


  339. Josh:

    You need to say something new or even try defending your position instead of always hitting my blog with the same long-ass comment.

    Otherwise I will have to mark you as spam. This is your warning.


  340. Lynette…”I am a Black woman who continues to be pursued by many Black men EVEN WHILE MARRIED”

    I believe you’ve answered your own question.

    Some women (black or white) don’t fancy the idea of “being pursued” by someone that’s “married” or when they themselves are “married” – for MANY of us this is INSULTING – we don’t want someone elses’ spouse…to some marriage really is sacred.

    It has nothing to do with being “angry”

    I’ve known many married “black” men who feel that it is their inherited right to seek extra curricular relationships, although married…

    Believe it or not, ALL black women are not raised with the expectation that there spouse will cheat on them and they just HAVE to deal with it because that is what (many) “black” males have done throughout history.

    I have been pursued by black, white, hispanic, etc. I’m not angry OR stupid…

    I have a high sense of self worth so I won’t go out with someones spouse – I know I’m BETTER than that!


  341. Lynette…You missed the whole point…have you ever dated other than a black male?

    I would guess NOT (?) – that’s (maybe) why you’ve missed my entire point – not angry, not stupid -just strong enough to realize that I can expect to have a great relationship not on HIS terms but more of a compromising relationship…

    I do date interracially whenever I chose to do so…

    I know about all different races of men and black men are NOT at the top of my list..

    I am considered by most men to be very attractive so I CAN pick and choose whom I want to date – I don’t subscribe my loyalty to ANY race; race is secondary to the PERSON I decide to go out with.

    I have a great job, live in a great place, etc. I am a very happy person!

    Again, I have a high sense of self worth which DOES offend some. Unfortunately, you misinterpreted it as “anger” I assure you it is not!

    In reality, I’m not very attracted to “most” black men…although I have been out with a few.

    I do agree with you that “Black men are the most flirtatious people ever”

    Have a great day!


  342. Hi Lynette, sorry for the caps no offense meant not screaming just highlighting my point – again, sorry.

    My daughter dates a black man, whom I love.

    I’m proud, happy, satified with what God has made me!


  343. on Fri 26 Jun 2009 at 22:20:29 mynameismyname

    Lynette,

    You ain’t say nothing wrong. LOL. I also have questioned the notion of “black men not persuing black women” on this blog. I see the same thing you see: countless black couples. And black men trying to get with every black woman they can! Married or not. Ugly or pretty. Fat or thin! LOL. You won’t believe some of the black women that these guys try to “push up on”. Shoot, not having teeth isn’t a dealbreaker for some of these guys!


  344. on Sat 27 Jun 2009 at 01:09:40 mynameismyname

    LOL, sometimes I wonder. I think we have similar values and the ability to see things for what they truly are. That’s rare in this day in age.

    Off-topic, on TV, it’s all Michael Jackson all the time. The fact that MJ is gone is truly messing with my head. Wow. Almost surreal.


  345. What happened to that neo nazi troll!!!
    He’s probably having incestral relations.
    As to Josh. He needs to learn more history about 20th century dictators.


  346. When I was Erin’s age, my experience with WM was similar to hers. I was interested in them and expressed this to them, but nothing ever materialized from it.
    I, however, don’t agree that WM aren’t interested in Black women because I live in Central Florida, which is often considered to be part of the racist South (I disagree with this too because most FL residents are transplants from the Midwest and the North) but I can easily count somewhere between 8 to 10 WM/BW marriages among my family, friends and co-workers. Only one couple has been married less than 10 years, and only one other has ended in divorce. If there are that many in my small circle, there are possibilities for still more.
    Also, in the last three years, I have attracted the attention of more WM than ever before: at work (at least 4 – one with which I am currently in a relationship), at the supermarket, the gym, the mall… And, I’m not talking about a simple smile and a “hi.” I mean they really chat me up. It isn’t that I’m actively seeking them. I have always been an equal opportunity dater. I don’t much care what Ethnicity a man is. I love them too much to limit myself, so I have dated mostly Black and Hispanic men, but also a Middle Easterner, a half- Asian guy, and a Native American.
    So, what changed? Well, for one thing, I am in my 40s now (however I look more than a decade younger – I get “hit on” by men in their late 20s) and living life with wreckless abandon. I no longer give a damn what others think of me. I live on my own terms, and it’s so much fun! I also look a bit different. I used to wear my hair straight and long, but I let my natural corkscrew curls grow out. Surprisingly, my hair is what get’s me noticed by men in general. I get “Hey sista, I love that natural look you’re rockin’” from the brothers and “wow, your hair is cool. I’ve never seen anything like it.” from White guys. This disproves the broad generalization that WM don’t like us if we look ethnic. I also think race relations are changing (a little and very slowly) and WM are feeling more comfortable about expressing their interest in us (Blanc2 has made this pt. before).
    Ironically, the man I’m involved with had never considered dating a BW before me and he wasn’t my “type” AT ALL. I had known who he was and greatly admired him for the work that he was doing, but we’d never conversed. That all changed when I helped him with a computer application we were using. The more I learned about him, the more I wanted to know, and the rest, as they say, is history. It hasn’t been easy. He came into this with a head-full of stereotypes and misconceptions but Just like the black women who comment here, I am strong, opinionated, and outspoken and I check him on the foolishness. What he has learned is that I am also intelligent, fun, loving, loyal, I love to travel and I like to try new things. What has been great is that he’s been open, listening, and willing to modify his views.
    One final comment and I’ll end this book: none of the men in the IR marriages I know of fit into any kind of mold. Some are artists, one is in full-time ministry, several are in Education…
    My advice: stop lamenting about phantom WM and get out there and meet some REAL men of all ethnicities.


  347. I’ve noticed a lot more WM/BW pairings in the media lately.

    The most notable of course is Spock/Uhura in the new trek movie (YAY!)

    but also, I think it was an Overstock.com commercial. Though the children were obviously white, the wife (or romantic interest) was black, with trademark ethnic hair.

    There were a few others that I cannot quite remember right now, but I think it’s slowly changing. That makes me super happy as well. The acceptable black woman is no longer the token curly haired wife of the token bald/curly haired husband at a deliciously white bread barbeque. I think these pairings are helping to acknowledge that black women come in different shapes sizes and hair textures, just like all of the other ethnicities. It’s humanizing.


  348. I marked the neo-Nazi troll as spam.


  349. thanks internet to give the possibility to read so many views.
    mynameismyname it’s always exciting to read your comments.


  350. A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER doesn’t take isolated negative traits that can apply to ANY woman of ANY race and generalize them to ALL BW.

    A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER treats BW as INDIVIDUALS and NOT as STEREOTYPES based on ANTI-BW LIES and MYTHS.

    A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER respects the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, FEMININITY, AND BEAUTY of BW instead of expecting them to conform to White/non-Black beauty standards.


  351. Hello Laromana,

    This post sure attract plenty of racist trolls who hate Blacks as a people and Black women in particular. They get defensive when confronted with facts about the beauty of Black women, why so few White men marry Black women, that there is still racism and sexism in the world today. These are just a few I’ve confronted with. It’s worse out there at the racist American Renaissance. Heck, these are the men who are bent on revising history to fit their evil, racialist agenda.

    Laromana and others, please stay strong and resolute. Don’t let the haters grind you down.

    La Reyna


  352. La Reyna,
    Thanks so much for your uplifting words of encouragement. BW and our supporters need to stand strong and keep challenging the lies, myths, and stereotypes promoted by ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.


  353. Although part 2 of your “study” is a bit better, it is still very unprofessional (see my comments on part 1). To say the “Columbia study found that white men are dogs and only care about looks” is ridiculous. The reason you are getting so many angry, defensive (and sometimes stupid) comments from white men is because they are offended and want to hurt back. And, the One Drop Rule from hundreds of years ago has no impact on people today when choosing marriage. Just as white people living TODAY cannot be responsible for the faults of slavery. My ancestors (and the vast majority of others) came to America long after slavery was abolished, yet I am lumped into this category of “racist white men.” Please ask yourselves these kinds of questions.


  354. I hate to shatter so many myths at once. I am a white professional male based in England, and my girlfriend is from Rwanda. She doesn’t find black men attractive and has only ever dated white guys. I am open-minded and have dated English, Indian, Filipina, Scandinavian and Italian girls. My ebony girlfriend is very loving, caring, passionate and affectionate. She is loyal, gentle, intelligent and fanatical about cleanliness. People sometimes look at us as if we are aliens, but we both find that really funny, and a turn-on in fact. Because our relationship is still considered taboo among both black and white people, it makes it all the more exciting! It’s time the racists moved on and found something else to complain about, such as world poverty and disease…


  355. “No, it’s just fact that she was actually intelligent in what she was saying. Alot of the racist blacks are the ones living on welfare and in prison. The more intelligent ones like Condoleza Rice and such would admit to such a thing.

    “To Tereasa: And that’s a stereotype classifying whites as 95% racist. When will you people understand? It’s like I’m fight with little kids. You just can’t admit defeat.

    Well anyways, to all the blacks who are not ignorant such as the ones on this website, I commemorate you!!! I praise the blacks that admit to double-standards and such. So to all my educated blacks, I hope we get past racism and we can start being unified. We just have to erase the racist whites and blacks on this site.”

    hi, have been following this topic on and off, i am quoting someone above, I had to, it’s just so ignorant, first of all he goes to say ” to all the blacks who are not ignorant” that right there is pretty ignorant in itself, and he even says ” she was actually intelligent” did you expect her to be a stupid, as if to say most blacks are stupid and most black women are the welfare/ghetto stereotype, that’s the problem, the majority of black women ARE NOT “ghetto” and have that attitude, that’s a stereotype and obviously this idiot’s excuse to demean black women. If you have a problem with black people why not be man enough to step up and own it instead of trying to paint us all with one brush. You yourself are the racist ______ you accuse other of being, and yes, many many white men and white women for that matter, overlook black women and men as attractive or “good folk” simply based on race, knowing anything about them doesn’t seem to be relevant. that is just a sad fact of living in this society. You havent had to look at us for people for so long so you are just used to doing it, we are “there” when you choose to see us, otherwise invisible, and that is fine by me for people like that. People like that who are too blind with self importance and white privilege are not people i want to know anyways, Good day!


  356. Adam,
    Thanks for sharing about your positive IRR with a BW and helping to shatter the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES being posted by SOME ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER WM on this post.

    There need to be more WM with your mindset who respect the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW and aren’t afraid to seriously date and/or marry them.


  357. Normally I wouldn’t question someones integrity.

    “It is true that so few white men marry
    black women simply because **they** *hate* ***us***.

    They were all taught since they were
    little to look at ***ALL*** black people
    as sub-human and to look at whites as
    demi-gods.”

    Honestly in any college class we would know that the question is wrong with the inclusion of the word ALL.
    I do not know your personal experiences, but as a white man I guarantee that their is at least 1 exception to your rule. I think that your post is trolling to elicit a response.


  358. As someone who is considered white, I find black women visually the most attractive…most white women don’t have the tone and definition black women possess, and have small lips and flat bums…there are exceptions of course but white women really do nothing for me…they are also much, much easier to talk into sex and most of them will suck your dick on the first date…


  359. Jhem, you obviously picking up some skanks. There are easy woman on all sides of the spectrum. So your comment is pointless.

    A beautiful woman is beautiful regardless of her race but my preference is towards white woman and having white children. If “you all” think that this is racist, tough!

    “black shaped nose” of the Great Sphinx was shot off” Bull! Upper Egypt was ruled by Egyptions as you see them today. Lower Egypt was more Nubian. Stop hi-jacking other peoples history!


  360. Dude, you clearly do NOT know Egyptian history.

    Upper Egypt is the Southern part of Eygpt ruled by Nubians and they have ruled all of Egypt at one time.

    Lower Egypt is the Northern part of Egypt.

    The egyptians of today are mostly Arabs who invaded Egypt under the Islamic Empire.
    Nobody knows what ancient egyptians prior to the invasion really looked like but there were not arabs of today.


  361. IDIOT/LIAR ALERT: To the person who keeps claiming that they are being called racist for preferring to marry within their race –

    NO ONE has said that it is RACIST to have a preference for a partner of your OWN RACE.


  362. laromana, cut down on the speed. Your comments are a little heavy.


  363. kat: Got it mixed up: Can you tell me why then from Ethiopia there is nothing remarkable in terms of great civilizations, exception of course in Zimbabwe, which is nothing to write home about?


  364. W.,
    Take your OWN UNSOLICITED advice.


  365. Simple fact is that there is alot of unsubstantiated facts being thrown around here. Some are ridiculous; back up some of these claims with a personal experience at the very least.


  366. Wayne Says:

    Fri 17 Jul 2009 at 20:10:21
    kat: Got it mixed up: Can you tell me why then from Ethiopia there is nothing remarkable in terms of great civilizations, exception of course in Zimbabwe, which is nothing to write home about?

    Wayne,
    What nothing to say about Ethiopia?

    Ethiopia is a country having an old civilization. It is considered to be the cradle of the humanity (the city of Hadar, which saw being born Lucy), as a crossroad of civilization and a museum of nationalities.
    The Egyptian Civilization, the sculpture and the writing had the roots in Ethiopia.

    So Africa « which WHITES people wants to get for a continent without historical past, sheltered the most ancient guides of the humanity in the way of civilization; it is those who have create arts, religion (particularly monotheism), literature, first philosophical systems, writing, precise sciences (physical appearance, mathematics, mechanics, astronomy, calendar), medicine, architecture, agriculture… While the rest of the earth (Asia, Europe: Greece, Rome.) been plunged into barbarism.

    Finally,Africa saw being born and blooming of so prestigious civilizations as those of Big Zimbabwe, Nubie, Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali, Nigeria – and who delivered during more than a millennium, of masterpiece among the most special and amazing known this day, furnishing the biggest museums and as the most informing of the collectors of the whole world still search. an invaluable provision in the historical heritage of the big human family

    I really had to say it even it’s very long.


  367. Nubiah

    Some say that the Egyption civilization’s root stem from Sumaria, which I agree with to some degree. I defently wont argue with you on this subject as our knowledge of history is at best, basic, especially pre-history which to me is the most facinating. Hopefully one day we will have the truth regardless of who it suits!


  368. Wayne,

    For information The Nubian civilization (Ethiopia ancient Sudan) is more ancient than The Egyptian.

    The Egyptian civilization is originally from the south of the Sudan.

    There are many more pyramids which were discovered in ancient Nubia and more ancient than those of Egypt.

    It is clear that you and me will never be able to agree with each other.

    When it comes to Africain civilization everybody want to protest, but if you speak about Greek civilization everybody agrees with everything.


  369. Nubiah

    Everyone is claiming that their race is the architect of civilization. We only have a record of the last 6-8 thousand years. There were greater civilizations long before that. The Library of Alexander had maps of the Antarctica that are so precise, we can only verify them now with satellite that can penetrate the ice that is over a mile thick. Makes you wonder?


  370. may I suggest seeing a counsellor? a black one of course, since a white one would feed you “lies” :)


  371. on Tue 21 Jul 2009 at 18:23:59 AreWhiteMenRacist?

    Ok, I cant really say that white men who make generalized comments about black women are necessarily racist. Its more a cultural difference that they are trying to grasp. If they see a dark skinned girl who acts and talks as they do they would be less apt to use these generalizations against her. But for dark skinned women who are part of the mainstream culture of the darker skinned people. They will use these.

    It is no different than the way black men talk about white women, they see them as white first and women second(for whoever keeps saying that).

    The reason we see color first, is because we need to know how to approach a person who has a high likelihood of not sharing our culture.

    Its the same way we’d look at someone as being African first, or a white person would look at someone being Jewish.


  372. AreWhiteMenRacist? Says:
    Ok, I cant really say that white men who make generalized comments about black women are necessarily racist. Its more a cultural difference that they are trying to grasp. If they see a dark skinned girl who acts and talks as they do they would be less apt to use these generalizations against her. But for dark skinned women who are part of the mainstream culture of the darker skinned people. They will use these.

    laromana’s response:
    Your comments are not correct. On this blog, SOME clearly ANTI-BW RACIST comments have been made by CERTAIN WM about ALL BW (regardless of culture, skin tone, educational level, etc.).

    These SAME WM have made positive, race neutral comments about OTHER NON-WW (eg. Asian women, Hispanic women, etc.)who are also “culturally different” from them.

    ANTI-BW RACISM (like ALL racism) is NOT RATIONAL. BW aren’t to blame for the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS choose to use against them solely because they refuse to view/treat BW as INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS.


  373. laromana

    Your comments regarding white people are full of hate and anger. As much as you dislike racism against you. You project it out towards white people. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black!


  374. W.,
    You don’t know me so please spare us your IRRATIONAL, UNTRUE assumptions/conclusions.

    I DON’T hate WP or ANYONE of ANY race. Just because you don’t like your ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER comments being challenged doesn’t mean I (or anyone else who disagrees with you) is a racist.


  375. Uncle Milton,
    I am DEFINITELY NOT anti-White but I won’t tolerate ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS (of ANY race) to get away with promoting ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes that trash the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW.

    I can understand why ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER trolls may not like having their racism challenged.


  376. It is strange that “white people” walk around acting like they are better then everybody else.

    I don’t see a halo above their heads and their feet touch the ground when they walk.

    So where do they get their superiority complex from?
    In my opinion, you have to have more then just straight hair texture and pale skin if you are going to convince me that you are some type of super-species.


  377. For white men that claim to hate black women they sure do keep their heads between the legs of black women.

    They are either talking about black pregnancy or black women’s private lives.

    These stormfront white boys keep coming to this site everyday to harass us black people.

    Totally Obsessed skinheads.

    Imagine what they are like in public.


  378. “Wayne” and the other weirdo calling himself “uncle milton” certainly need to go back to stormfront.

    The klan members that own that website normally encourage their people to attack blacks and jews in public not on the computer.


  379. no kidding, I’m done with this idiot. come back when your done grade 9, honey.


  380. Who wants to marry a white man? Nasty.

    They are usually molesting children and animals why would anyone go near them?

    http://whitewatch.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/dutch-pedophile-molests-child-live-and-audience-laughs/


  381. yeah, like michael jackson


  382. if hes not white I dont know what is


  383. I am late to this conversation, but I am wondering if black women are not the victim of slick Madison Avenue Marketing white women who do not really exist? These women on television look the way they do after lots of liposuction, silicone implants, airbrushing, clever makeup and foundation garments to make them look like flesh and blood goddesses.

    I challenge everyone on this board to look at realistic depictions of white women pre-electronic, modern media. These women have noticeable body flaws. They are hippy, small-breasted, somewhat dumpy looking, but in the eyes of the men who painted and sculpted them (often their lovers) they were beautiful.

    I am an average, middle-aged brunette white female. There is no way any real flesh and blood white woman could measure up to the Madison Avenue Marketing carefully packaged perpetually 20-something Barbie doll that is so omnipresent.

    I was so grateful when the actress who starred in the movie “Perfect,” Jamie Leigh Curtis and showed the world what she really looked like. She could pass as one of my closest friends.

    Black men chase white women for the same reason white men chase Asian girls. Oh, they use the buzz words, “softer, more feminine, more approachable, more traditional,” but they really think they are getting a woman who is easier to control and dominate.

    Right after she gets her green card, her white husband finds out PDQ that, if an Asian woman wants to be a traditional Asian wife, she would marry an Asian man. It won’t take a black man long to figure out the same nonsense that irritates black women irritates white women, too.


  384. ya i know like how as soon as michael jackson was big the media changed him from black to white. white people couldn’t accept that a black man was so famous so they painted his skin white for the cameras.


  385. and when people found out that he was actually black they “killed him off.” hes not even dead i saw him a few days ago.


  386. I realize the premise of this thread is a negative from the start. Why so few white men marry black women…. Where does the moderator live anyway? It takes two to make a marriage so this thread should be called why so few black women and white men marry.
    I also am fascinated that few people challenge the angry racists on here.
    Tragic….


  387. Alkema:

    The angry racists on this post are also known as ‘trolls’. It’s futile to engage them, and most posters won’t stoop to their level to form a reply for them to ignore.

    Also, what would changing the name of the title of this post prove? It’s still just as negative, instead it implies even more subversive hate between black women and white men. And if it was a general dislike between these two groups, would it even be a problem? It would be nice to live in a colorblind world and mix all of the races willy nilly, but if two groups hate each other that much, marriage probably isn’t the first thing on the list of differences to reconcile.


  388. einstein was actually black too they changed his picture in every book he was in


  389. Geez. I can’t believe this post is still getting so much attention.

    Abagond, I think you need to post a Part III!


  390. Erin

    Thanks for the reply. I agree on most points. I just thought that the name of this forum implies that it is up to the white man to initiate marriage to a black woman. I the title itself says that. I really think literally, btw. Yet I think that it is both sides have reservations about each other. I think I might be nit picking about the title but just my take on it.
    Makes sense about the trolls and not feeding them too.


  391. You speak for no one but yourself, apparently.


  392. on Thu 30 Jul 2009 at 17:25:50 therighttoparty

    ok this is lol worthy —

    “Nothing has changed since the days of slavery and the whites that went around punching in the faces of the egyptian mummies.”


  393. If it takes two to make a marriage,
    how come you never see a white woman proposing to a white man at the same time the white man proposes to the white woman?


  394. why do white people hate us so much? because of our noses and our black skin. they label our genitals like we are circus animals! they call us monkeys and apes and gorillas and then act all innocent? yet they go to websites like stormfront.com nothing has changed since white people said they built the pyramids and stole jesus from africa. I dont see any white people walking on water!!! why do they hate our NOSES SO MUCH!!!?!?!? OUR NOSES!!!!


  395. in summary: noses, dave duke, apes, the sphinx, white people think their god and noses


  396. Why so few white men marry black women….

    The same reason why more black men are marrying white women…..CLASSISM(Hegemonia). The evil parent of RACISM. Black women are seen as unfortunate in Race,Gender & Class……

    Kerry Washington,Eve,Venice Williams are being used as the poster children for black women who are in interracial relationships. Yet, many of us are absolutely clueless who these white men are…..But they are dating and marring the creme de la’creme of black women…..Why? White men are automatically assumed to be entitled and privileged, whether they are or whether they are not. White males are not knocking on LaKita’s door who lives in an impoversished community, getting on one knee and asking her to marry him……Hell,white males are not knocking on Hugh Hefner’s door trying to marry a Playboy Bunny…… White men believe in marry up, which is why so few marry black women, because they are taught and condition that the non-white woman is socially unacceptable and unless she have some awesome credentials behind her name to make up for her black skin, you might be a good lay, but you will not be the one he brings home to mother.


  397. That’s true, CyndiAnn. White women are still held as the epitome of beauty and the most worthy marriage mate for not just White men, men of Color as well.

    La Reyna


  398. Okay, SLAVERY did happen. It happened hundreds of years ago but it still happened.
    I liken slavery to the rape of the black race.

    RAPE scars the victim for life and usually affects the generations of the victim to come(children, grandchildren etc.) I’m actually watching this happening right now in more than one case.

    That is the way it is with slavery. It hurt. It hurt deeply. And the after math is still relevant today for those whose ancestors have went through it.

    Back to rape. The children of the rapist will most likely have an easier time to get over the fact that thier father(or mother) is a rapist. And if they happen to meet the children of the rape victim they may feel bad, apologize(if they are compassionate) but ultimatly it is not their fault. Therefore they will not understand the anger and maybe hatred aimed at them. It was their father not them. And that’s true, but the children of the rape victim can’t see that. They only know that the man or woman who raped their parent inderictly made their lives a living hell. Their parent suffered from mood swings because of their rape and spits out hateful comments because they are hurt etc.

    That’s how it is between the black race a nd white race. Hundreds of years ago white people wanted blacks to know that they are inferior. There is even a qoute from a slave owner (a very wise one) saying(and this is just the jist of it. Pardon me for paraphrasing) if you divide the black race now, even if slavery ended black people would be down for the long run. and that’s the truth.

    I’m only twenty-one but I have seen my father being thrown into is own living room table by a white police man b/c he was black(no other explanation for it) Witnessed my great-grandmothers defeat in everything. Her favorite quote is “We can’t do anything about it.”, Seen a black girl cry b/c her dad didn’t care about her but was running around with a white woman’s children calling them his…and you know what I indirectly blame slavery. But you know what else I do not blame white people of these times.

    What is done is done, but the white people on here who are spitting out racist comments then turn around and call others racist. Especially at black women…a double dare you to walk in their shoes for one day.

    And I know it is wrong for everyone to be racist. But keep in mind we are all prejudice. A simple facct.

    And one more thing people are people are people. Nad if people prefer dating inside their own race good for them…if they find love outside their good for them. Just make sure your foundation is Christ b/c no matter the color relationships are a rocky thing!


  399. I wrote that for the people who keep accusing each other of being racist.


  400. Cute BW/WM couple. Couldn’t help myself because they really are very cute:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/08/07/ST2009080701367.html?sid=ST2009080701367


  401. Actually, just wanted to add that in my bit of the country, BW/WM couples are really common. To the point where nobody notices them anymore.


  402. To: Black&German

    I prefer dating non-American males period, because they have a different perspective about women of color.


  403. How is their perspective different?


  404. First,let me share a little something about myself. Ten years ago I attended an international university and I use to chuckle when I would hear international students describe me as the “American”…… Not the Black American, African American, Black chic, Welfare Queen, Hood Rat, Drama Queen….. but the American girl.
    My experience with non-American males left me with the impression that race is not their issue…..Politics,corruption, poverty seemed to be a far bigger issue for them other than someone’s race.


  405. Yeah, over there we’re just “American”. It really is like that.


  406. Black&German and CyndiAnn,
    Thanks for reminding us of a FACT I have repeatedly stated on BW Empowerment blogs.

    BW are viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RACE NEUTRAL manner by MOST European WM than they are by American WM.

    Also, MOST European WM have a higher appreciation for the BEAUTY, HUMANITY, and FEMININITY of BW than American WM. That’s why there are more BW/WM marriages in Europe than in the U.S.

    Things are slowly beginning to change in America, but hopefully, SOON, BW will be viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RESPECTFUL way by MOST American WM (and American society/media)as they are by MOST European WM.


  407. Thank You.


  408. I’d like to say the negative comments about African American women are stereotypes.Just because you find one example which you perceive as “ghetto” does not represent the whole race of women. Does a couple of white porn stars represent all white women?Just like a couple of uneducated and loud black females doesn’t represent them all.(Michelle Obama is a good example.)Anyways, this is obvious and acceptable to anyone whose not racist.
    I am a female college student who is bi-racial.I do not use slang words at all.I, like many other African American women, are not “hood rats”. I live in an exceptionally nice neighborhood,I also have a 3.6 GPA.I have been approached by white, mixed, and dark skin men.By the way,I doubt the black women who are educated would want someone with such narrow views of an entire race anyways.Have a nice day.


  409. I not sure if you understood my comments. I am well aware that the negative labeling,such as “Hood Rats” is a stereotype. To assume that I’m not aware of that means you are assuming that I’m ignorant. To suggest that I’m speaking for the entire black population is just down right offensive. I was speaking about my own personal experiences. Read the thread!

    However, what I was arguing is how unfair it is to call any black woman a “Hood Rat, Drama Queen, Welfare Queen whether they are “loud black females” or not……Labeling affects all of us……Not to mention, those labels were not design for women who live in exceptionally nice neighborhoods with high GPAs……

    Those labels were designed for black women like me….. who was less fortunate than yourself….Someone who grew up in black America(I’m multiracial)…..Someone who grew up in an historical,impoverished community and had to struggle for everything including my education. So, I donot appreciate any type of labeling no matter who it comes from or why it was created. It’s as if you are suggesting that because you are bi-racial and grew up in an exceptionally nice neighborhood it’s ok to use the term “Hood Rats” when refering to……. As you called them “uneducated loud black females”……Are you saying that’s ok?

    As for the porn stars representing all white women……Not all them, but they definitely influence and set the tone for what males see as the perfect mate(freak in the bedroom&a lady in the street)….Sexual objectification is a good thing for white women…..they get rich from it…..Because they are still privileged in race and class(Hegemonia)…..White pornography is multi-trillion dollar industry…..However, those negative stereotypes affect Black females in the Adult Entertainment industry as well….. it’s as if you are suggesting that there are no black women in that industry……However, to show how negative stereotyping affects black women across the board…..Black women in the Adult Entertainment industry are considered low class and high risk for disease……They make far less money than their white colleagues because of how the black female is valued in this country(Hegemonia).

    As for the comment about being approached by men(?)…….even “loud black females” get approached by all types of men. So what was your point?

    Some courses in “Women Studies” would be helpful in your understanding the black female….. whether they are uneducated or educated. I wish you the best in all your endeavors.

    ~Unity~


  410. Hello to everyone who took the time to comment on this very timely topic. I’ve enjoyed reading the many perceptions of race relations in our wonderful land.
    I am a 33 year old black woman who has successfully raised two black young men on my own, unwed from my teen years. They are both attending college this year (you do the math).

    As for my education, I never went to college but graduated high school. I’m completely self- taught yet my Mensa IQ is 146 (real score from the real test). I am the CEO of a very profitable Real Estate company I founded 7 years ago. I am very attractive and also of the Christian faith.
    I’ve written this short exposition on my background for your understanding of the following.

    Many of the African American women on this blog have what I would consider a twisted view of the many thousands of white Americans and non-American men’s view of us. I’ve worked, lived and socialized alongside whites, both men and women of every age group and socioeconomic background. I have found very little inward or outward racism directed toward me. However, I have noticed many more occurrences of racism, stemming from fear, toward black males. In many of my intimate and repeated inquiries to white males and females I’ve definitely heard many common similarities of their opinions of us such as;

    I think black women are the most beautiful women in the world, black women are so sexy, I think black women are more sincere and stronger than other women, I think black men treat their women like trash, I would date a black woman if I thought they were interested, I think black women like sex more than others, I always wanted to be with a black woman, I think black people harbor hatred towards whites from slavery, black skin looks so healthy- I tan because I think my white skin looks sickly, I love the full lips of black women, I think black women’s hair is the most versatile, I think black men are more dominant, I wish black women would realize that we would treat them as well or better than a black man, I’ve heard all black men are well endowed, black women are so much more expressive than others, I wish I could be as bold as black men, black women only like black men etc, etc, etc….

    This shows me how little we actually know and understand about each other’s culture. To know what others think of us we must be prepared to ask difficult, direct and honest questions from logical, rational and likeminded people of other races. Also, we must be prepared to hear without judgments, the truth of the matter of the responses we may get to eventually create a stable racial harmony in America.

    I have personally been approached more by white men than black men around the Atlanta area and I live in a densely white populated area in Georgia. Usually I am approached daily by men of all races, especially white men though and the reason is because I am approachable, extroverted, confident and friendly to all people.

    I wanted my children to grow up with as much racial diversity as possible because I live in a place called America where black and white soldiers fight side by side to defend my country and where the people of the land take leaps to culturally evolve, and my neighbors and I can pray with freedom. Our nation, America is “ours” too and we all share in its past, present and future.

    For the God believers on here of all faiths, how important is color in the human race? Does it define intelligence, drive, happiness, and depth of love, or respect, perhaps the direction of our survival or spirit? Why does yesterday dictate today? Were whites more hurt by what happened on 911? Did blacks feel no sympathy for holocaust victims? If a meteor hit America, will not all Americans be affected?

    I deeply appreciate this discussion and topic, but I disagree with many of the misconceptions among black women on here, of course white men want you, are you blind? If most white men were racist, would Obama be president? We only make up 12% of the populace. Why do you think so many black men are trapped in the prison system? Hmmm, perhaps so more of us are readily available, what do we really see? There are many more whites on welfare because there are more whites in America. There are many more poor whites in “ghettos” (trailer parks) than blacks because there are more whites.

    We blacks must begin to see ourselves in a more positive light.

    Hate groups are just that, a group, a minuscule portion of a majority and if you do a little online research you will find just as many black hate groups as white ones. Hate is universal, it crosses color lines but I’d bet my life that there is more love among people in the world than hatred.

    If only we had television news stations that reported the good news as well. With that being said I love my country, my God, my black brothers and sisters, my white brothers and sisters, my Asian, Latin, Jewish, brothers and sisters and everyone in whom I share in humanity with. There will be no color lines in Heaven.

    To the black men and women, we should strive to love ourselves and help each other grow by overcoming the plights of our past. We must see the beauty in us and stop relying on others to see it because we first must realize our own worth.

    I can have just about any man I desire of any race and so can you. My husband loves me and worships the ground I walk on. He is wealthy, handsome and successful and he was so happy when I said “Yes” to his marriage proposal. By the way, he is white!
    Sincerely Yours,
    Image of God


  411. Not to being racist, but I’m not really atracted to white men, not in a sexually way. I do like black men, some south east asian or latin, but no white. Most of the black females I met had the same feelings about this, and we are not racist! just preference

    source:

    blasian lady


  412. i like all women. but when i was a kid all my girl friends were not caucasian. i moved to missouri and was told id be outcast if i dated a woman of another race besides caucasian. i dont like racism because my dad always told me we’re all human and take people for who they are. if people disowned me for dating a woman of another race id just say one more idiot that still believes in archaic thoughts and move on. i dont think that its bad or wrong when i see interacial couples i understand. but people here in smalltown missouri look down on these people.


  413. @gary dieter: Im from Missouri too. Interesting that you were told that, but then again, Im not surprised. This state is still amongst the most separatist places in this country. Glad you’re sticking to your ideals.


  414. i believe matters like relationship are judged by individual perception of a term so called love. in the above context,racial or religious considerations are, some times, became pre judgement factors. so whether a black, white or blue woman date a pink guy and to what extent is nonetheless of no importance in this contemporarly world.
    get wise all of you and stop discussing nonsenses


  415. i have gone through almost all the comment posted and only one point is missing which is colour is just a skin pigment, whats important is the inside of the person.
    in africa, people have seen so much brutality of white men during colonialism.
    white people are thus considered as brutal,cheaty and all other negative attributes including having small dicks.but this does not involve all white men so dont entertain your misguided judgements on colour of other human beings


  416. i personally looking forward to sleep with women of all races in this world, its good to taste what God has created.
    we african we have no problem of having more than one women interms of mistress,wives or for one night stand.
    god has given us dicks and energy enough to accomodate lots of women.


  417. Ummm… *cough* TMI.

    Anyway, the worst part of the whole “black men are all well-endowed” fallacy is that people expect the inverse to be true; that “black women are cavernous”.


  418. White guy here and the reason why so few
    white men marry black women is that white
    women are generally much more attractive to
    white men.


  419. Sean, I grant you that point:
    Most white men find white women most attractive, on average. I think that holds true across all races. Perhaps for environmental (nurture) rather than genetic (nature) reasons, but it’s true all the same.

    But that’s not the point.

    The debate is: is there something inherent to the WM/BW relationship that makes — all other things (beauty, talent, intelligence, charm, socio/economic status, education, etc.) being equal or even superior — a BW a less attractive MARRIAGE partner than a WW. Despite most WM finding WW more attractive and most BW finding BM more attractive, there is still a sizeable portion of the population to whom this does not apply. Certainly large enough to suggest that an intermarriage rate of 117,000 is too low for it to be merely chance.

    In other words: if a WM had the choice between an average-looking dull WW and a beautiful and talented BW, why is it that most WM would choose to MARRY the WW, regardless of whom they found more attractive?

    That is the interesting question and it works the other way around as most BW aren’t interested in marrying a WM even if they found him attractive and he was otherwise the best match they could make. They just don’t want him or are even grossed out at the mere thought of it. Most BW would prefer a less-than-quality BM over a quality WM. It’s not rational, and it’s changing, but that’s the current status.

    What does that say about race-relations in the US? What does that say about the “beauty premium” that BW lack? What does that say about BW/BM relationships?


  420. Another interesting question is:

    Why is it that a woman will appear attractive to a WM until he finds out that she’s black? I’ve experienced this a few times in my life and it’s, frankly, bizarre. Is the concept of “black women are ugly” so ingrained that a WM could switch so instantaneously like that?


  421. “White guy here and the reason why so few
    white men marry black women is that white
    women are generally much more attractive to
    white men.”

    laromana says,
    WW ARE NOT “MORE ATTRACTIVE” THAN BW SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE because NO ONE RACE OF WOMEN is MORE ATTRACTIVE than ANOTHER BASED SOLEY ON RACE. There are attractive and ugly women in EVERY RACE.

    It is this type of IRRATIONAL, IDIOTIC, RACIST/ANTI-BW mindset that needs to be DISMISSED/DESTROYED ONCE AND FOR ALL.

    Also, just becaues ONE WM has a “RACIST opinion” that WW are “more attractive than BW” doesn’t mean that ALL WM think this way.

    It’s true that MOST AMERICAN WM have been conditioned via ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to view BW as “less attractive than WW” and to either FEAR/DISCRIMINATE against relationships with BW, but this doesn’t mean ALL WM think WW are “more attractive” than BW.


  422. There is no conclusive evidence that the “majority” of ANY racial group NECESSARILY finds members of their own racial group “more attractive” than those outside of their racial group SOLELY based on race.

    Without ANY CONCRETE,FACTUAL evidence to support it, saying that “WW are generally much more attractive to WM”(than BW) is an ILLOGICAL, SUBJECTIVE, IRRATIONAL, RACIST, ANTI-BW statement.

    Factoring in the NEGATIVE effect historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in America has had on how ALL men view the attractiveness of BW, also make the truthfulness of this statement questionable.


  423. on Tue 25 Aug 2009 at 22:33:19 all for one, one for all

    I just wanted to make a quick comment on the “apes spread aids”. Sir I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but the interracial bug is biting everywhere. Having just come back from Russia with my pure Russian fiance I can attest to the kindness and welcoming hearts of the Russian people to me a half black women. They are a hard and strong people much like the BW of America. I loved my stay there. I do admit that I was concerned with some of the things you spoke of about public beating and things but those are the work of some extremist most likely much like yourself. Dr. martin Luther King Jr. was thought to be an extremist in his time but over time the sheet fell from those eyes of hate and I pray one day that will happen to you to Sir. May God save your soul.


  424. it dont matter on race as long as the companion is attractive and has a personality to match. Look at Heidi Klum and Seal,you know there are bigger sterotypes of black poeple in other countries like perhaps germany and for her to fall in love with him that had to be big in her country to acknowledge. i agree with the girl way up above who said it was on how the person looked and acted like their family and friends. but some people wont let race pass them by which makes them the ignorant people in life. you have to ignore those people sin life or you will never live have fun.


  425. “Look at Heidi Klum and Seal,you know there are bigger sterotypes of black poeple in other countries like perhaps germany and for her to fall in love with him that had to be big in her country to acknowledge.”

    Gotta defend my country here:
    Actually, their marriage has resulted in a big career boost for both of them. And the Germans can’t get enough of them. They’re such a striking couple.
    You should have seen how badly they trashed Boris Becker in the German media after he cheated on his wife, Barbara. The people really liked her.


  426. This discussion has gone through it all – crazy comments and sensible musings.

    Abagond – I like that you let it all hang out!


  427. on Tue 15 Sep 2009 at 02:26:05 mynameismyname

    I agree B&G,

    The mainstream media’s attention on their marriage got them way more press and exposure than either had since the peak of their careers.

    That’s a celeb couple who knows how to milk their union for their benefit in a classy way.


  428. I find your assumption on how we would feel about children of mixed marriages to be ridiculous.they would still be our children.but I find blacks to be much harsher on these children.the children endure taunts and racial ridicule from blacks far more than whites. The word mullato is hispanic also the word quadroon meaning 1/4 black and octdroon meaning 1/8 black describe heritage and yes the women where beautiful.


  429. I disagree.

    On one level you might be right: If you strapped a taunt-o-meter to the chest of every half-black and half-white child in America, then it might in fact count more black taunts than white taunts.

    BUT YET most of these children will grow up to see themselves as black. Why in the world is that?

    You are fooling yourself about how wonderfully accepting white people are.


  430. How about that we (white men) just don’t find most black women attractive. Culturaly polar opposites too, most not, all mind you.


  431. It’s true that MOST AMERICAN WM have been conditioned via ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to “find BW unattractive” and to either FEAR/DISCRIMINATE against relationships with them, but this doesn’t mean ALL WM think BW are “unattractive” or “cultural polar opposites”.


  432. “Rival campaigns, meanwhile, were unsure of what to make of it. A senior aide to one rival said they tested de Blasio’s mailings in a focus group and left hoping that voters would find the appeal ‘crass.'”

    An image of his family, who will be his support network if he wins, should be perceived as ‘crass,’ ONLY because his wife is Black and he has half-black (BEAUTIFUL -by the way) children. * sigh *

    I think we’ve discussed this, ad nauseum.


  433. d.allen says

    “I find your assumption on how we would feel about children of mixed marriages to be ridiculous.they would still be our children.but I find blacks to be much harsher on these children.the children endure taunts and racial ridicule from blacks far more than whites.”

    I have six nieces and nephews (from 4 different couples) with whom I spend a great amount of time. I have never heard anyone (Black or White) say anything off-handed about any of them. One of the boys garners a lot of attention because of his blonde, “untamed” hair but the comments have been compliments about how “cool” his hair is. It’s his (accidental) signature look (he’s only 2).
    Maybe it’s the social circles in which we live and move, but if anything, I’ve noticed that Black children their age fawn over them, almost covet their uniqueness… which I find kind of sickening because it reveals what we always discuss here… they’re (blacks) made to feel that something about them is wrong, bad, ugly. They feel that these kids are somehow better because they’re bi-racial.

    I tire of hearing how bi-racial children will be ridiculed or suffer somehow because of their mixed heritage. I’ve witnessed nothing of the sort. In fact, my nieces have been the catalyst for bonding between the two sides of their families. And, we have heard witnessed how many men are attracted to bi-racial women. For some, they are the ‘pick of the litter.’ So, where’s all the disdain?


  434. Co-sign both comments ndependent.


  435. To Mike

    I’m BLACK and i’m a 17 year old female. I don’t discriminate when it comes to what race I date,(i wish no one was classified by the color of their skin but just as humans) but whatever.

    My point is that I agree with EVERYTHING that you have said. I was raised by black parents and I was taught not to date a man who wears baggy jeans and has pierced ears and hasn’t finished high school and you know what most black men fall into this category. I was never brain washed and I can see that a lot of black people bring racism on themselves. a lot of them dress like thugs and expect to be treated like diplomats.

    Only 35% of black high school graduates end up graduating College. There are more black men in jail than in school! I hate when blacks won’t admit when they’re wrong it’s sad and disgusting. If you got a chance to some to my school you would see that blacks stick to themselves rather than socializing with anyone else and they bring fear into other races because we are so damn aggressive! No one wants to hang around some grumpy ass who calls himself a ”nigga” and thinks it’s cool.

    If anyone called me that i’d be furious because our forefathers fought so hard for the abolition of slavery and segregation so we could be seen as intellects not ignorant angry fools! Which is exactly what the majority of blacks have made us seem like.

    None of the men want to be lawyers everybody is a fucking rapper or athlete. FYI those aren’t real careers! So pull up your damn pants learn to speak proper english so you can be socially acceptable and stop giving your children ridiculous names like bonquisha and Velisha. Stereotypes are created when the majority succumb to those simple minded behaviors. For example all Chinese people are good at math well that’s because the majority of them are. Blacks are too paranoid I know racism exists but the only way to get rid of it is to be the bigger person and work hard and be #1 so even when the world is fighting against you, you’ll know that you’re the best look at Barack Obama he’s the President of the United States do you think if he was some thug rapper they would have made him president because the excuse was he’s black and America doesn’t want a black man to succeed. Most blacks wanted Hilary Clinton the Whites were the ones who made Barack win so eat that!

    I <3 WHITE MEN BLACK MEN PURPLE MEN WHATEVER COLOR IT DOESN'T MATTER! I'm tired of people walking on thin ice with black people if you're wrong you're wrong!


  436. White men want white offspring and that is a fact. Why is this such a difficult issue?

    It is not a matter of personal like or dislike, it is a matter racial preference. If I was black, I would prefer black offspring.

    Asians and hispanics don’t mix and they are proud of their race so why are we singling out whites?

    Stop focusing on the notion that color is a desired trait and focus on what you prefer personally. If that means mixing to change your color then look for a mate that matches your requirements without passing on bad genes to your offspring.

    Frankly, you should mate for intelligence, and athleticism, with a partner who is genetically capable of matching your own genetic characteristics.


  437. on Wed 2 Dec 2009 at 11:31:39 Wittany Dreamie Eyes

    - Ok I just had to respond to what Robert Lindsay said as an example:

    “Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.

    Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.

    What racist stereotypes? That Black women are aggressive? Why is that a racist stereotype? Isn’t it true that on average and as a group, they are more aggressive? Why is that even debatable?

    It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?”

    – Ok look I’m sure everyone has seen an angry black woman whether on tv, in a movie, or observed it in real life, but you can’t just assume that all black women are like that; that’s a fallacy. Especially not based off of several experiences.

    If you seem to be having bad experiences with BW or women in general then that’s your fault; and that goes for men to. Just like its Robert Lindsay’s fault that he keeps finding himself to be with gold-digging or mean aggressive women who happen to be black.

    Its his fault that he hasn’t learned how to avoid those types of women, not just BW, but women like that in general, sense he’s had so much experience. Please! You’d think he be smart enough not to fall for the same mistakes again and actually look for the good qualities in women that cancel them out as a gold-digger or an aggressive woman. Maybe then Robert would have found a decent BW or any decent woman for that matter.

    So people, don’t just make up your minds after a couple of experiences. That’s life, you make mistakes, you learn from them so you prevent from repeating the. I mean obviously if something isn’t working for you, then either change it or fix it, but don’t go jumping to conclusions.


  438. Hi Abagond

    Could I have a copy of Lynette’s dissertation pls, am sure it would make for very interesting reading. She’s a great blogger and I’d love to read her thesis :)

    Hope you don’t mind Lynette :)


  439. ok im an 18yr old black woman who is seen as an oreo because im not loud and do not use ebonics and i am proper. people consider me a sellout and say im not black enough and im not allowed to be black.i havent had any good experiances with black people and that led me to only hanging with whites and due to lack of black male attention my preference for them is gone. this is something that i have tried to fight but it just wont go away i prefer to date men of other races,i have dated white and mexican but i have a thing for asians but they are the ones who wont date black women, i would really like someone to explain that.


  440. ari91,
    You don’t have to feel bad about not having a preference for BM, especially when they’ve ignored you. Just keep dating quality NON-BM who you like and who also like (and don’t discriminate against)you.


  441. Ari-
    Don’t feel bad about your preferences! It’s totally ok. As for Asian guys, just remember that not ALL guys of ANY race suscribe to the same ideals. I live in backwoods texas and I’ve personally seen a couple of BW/AM couples walking hand in hand around here. If it can happen in this sad excuse for a modern city, it can happen anywhere.

    (: Chin up!


  442. on Sun 6 Dec 2009 at 00:51:02 Patricia Kayden

    @Ari91:

    Why don’t you ask an Asian male that you like why they don’t date Black women? I’ve seen Asian males and Black women couples in my neck of the woods and in Jamaica where my parents are from.


  443. To Stephanie your comment is wrong it is another fallacy or myth that they’re are more BM in jail than in school…please look up the REAL data.

    To Mike I have an issue with you calling Black Women –Black Girls this how i know (amongst other things you said) that your problem is deep.

    I know this is very difficult to do but if most White people can stop thinking THEY ARE BETTER THAN… this coud be a start!


  444. I have heard a lot of WW tell me and read on this blog that when they gain weight BM approach them more… In my humble opinion it has nothing to do with attraction but more to do with them ready to ponce because they think you are easy to sleep with ..that’s it!

    I’m going to generalize a bit:
    WM are more pickier than BM (because they can be)
    BM are not very picky (about who they sleep with as long as they are getting some) it can be white, fat, black, mexican etc.
    A caveat to this is wealthy BM most of them are discerning.


  445. The comment on BM –is not to feed into the “over-sexed”stereotype it explains more of their openness to date and bed those out their race.


  446. There are a lot of devils on this website.


  447. The great actor Robert Deniro has no problem with marrying a black woman.


  448. I agree with White Guy….Good Intelligent Post>


  449. Ari91, sorry to hear your experience. We share the same experiences with black guys (somewhat).

    Trust me, Asian guys do like black women. Me ex-boyfriend was Asian and we were in a very serious relationship. He told me that some are attracted but are too shy to approach. Since him, other Asian guys have approached.

    Don’t assume that about any race of men.

    Good luck!


  450. jade says:
    “I’m going to generalize a bit:
    WM are more pickier than BM (because they can be)
    BM are not very picky (about who they sleep with as long as they are getting some) it can be white, fat, black, mexican etc.
    A caveat to this is wealthy BM most of them are discerning.”

    That’s a half truth!
    As a black guy, I date all races of women! Not so much that I’m not very picky. It’s because I see beautiful women in all races and I want a piece of every pie! lol!

    Truth is Black women are on the top of my list and white women are at the bottom! Still variety is the spice of life! ;)


  451. I have to disagree with the author in many respects. I happen to be a black female who is dating a white male. Here is the true issue. I have known him since I was at least 11 and have liked him since I was 15. Not dating him was not due to there being no common interest, the number of other datable males or our families.
    The truth of the matter is that in the made very clear early on by black males that the white man is the reason for all of his troubles. Black women being the community minded people we are choose to back our men by not dating the one race they blame for their problems. However, these same black men choose to date white women and blame the same black women who support them.
    People need to grow up and realize that color does not make the person. I know black people who are racist against their own just as there are white people who are the same way. If you find someone you have an interest in get to know them. The only person you are cheating is yourself.
    To make the author correct black women would have to fall into the same mind set as the black man and blame the white man for their own choices.


  452. This is sad, the author paints with broad strokes.

    Not only that but there seems to be a lot of generalizations (bordering on racism) and stereotyping going on in this thread against many groups; black women, black men and white men in particular.

    as for ndependent:

    I disagree, I know a couple (Black man and white woman) who have biracial kids and they were literally shunned at their school (parents told kids not to hang out with them).

    It’s pathetic and petty but it was a reality, I felt so bad for them and their kids.

    Think about that: Things you enjoyed as a kid like going to birthday parties and holiday parties – didn’t happen for the most part.

    I’ll just finish by saying: People should really make it clear that they’re discussing a large percentage and not all of one group.


  453. i think we actually need a post on why so few black women marry white men. That would be a good post.


  454. Now from reading all these posts I agree with some and I disagree with some of you, haha I am a black girl and I can speak for mostly my class which is upper class I’ve never lived in the ghetto, but I’ve had ghetto friends who actually dated white guys…but those girls ruined how white guys in my school acted towards me, because they expected me to act ghetto, obnoxious, stupid, etc. and hit them for stupid things, when I am the exact opposite. I love white guys, but I also like other races. Also It is more likely for a middle class/upper class black girl to like white guys, only because she wants to marry someone who will have money like her. I’m not against black guys. It’s just that I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! I don’t know why, I mean even my brother is, and he loves white girls. I’ve came across many “racist thinking” white guys and I changed their opinion and thoughts of black girls, not by having sex them, but just talking to them on their level. I have a white bf now and I don’t see the problem of black girls dating outside their race, especially white guys. I think it’s natural, for a guy no matter what color to like a girl no matter what color. In my humble opinion I think the reason why the white guy/black girl marriage is so low, is because most black people live in black areas. In black areas the whites are subjected to themselves and so with the blacks, but if the blacks and whites were living in the same area, non-ghetto, upper class or middle class. There would be a great amount of interracial marriage, because of the thrill and excitement of going with a different is amusing to all eyes. Not just the black and white eyes. It shows a sense of acceptance in the two main races in America. I’m not trying to start anything, I just wanted to state my opinion since I am a upper class. :) Yes I may have a little white in me, but I am more black than white, only because all of my grandfathers love white women, and when it came to my mom she refused to date a white man and went with a black man. She totally accepts me dating white guys, only because of the emotional problems I was dealing with, with the black guys. I like men who are on my level, who go to college, who live in a fancy house, and who wants to work. Oh and especially who wants a family! I’ve only met one black guy who exceeded these qualities, but he was African??? How funny is that haha. And yes I’ve met plenty of ghetto white boys who tried to treat me like the black guys do, and trust me it didn’t work. No girl wants to be with a guy who constantly degrades you, no matter what color you are!! I’ve proven my fellow white friends that I don’t fit the stereotype of a black girl, not because I don’t want to be “black” it’s more because I want to have a career, and a life, of non-drama!! :)


  455. ( The true reason white men don’t date black women is because white men are racist.

    White men don’t want black children! HELLO!

    That should show you that white men have hatred for black women and don’t even view us as human beings.

    Because even when a white man has a child with a black woman the child is seen as “other” instead of being seen as a human being by their own white father.

    White men have no respect for their own flesh and blood when it comes from a black womb.
    And that is coming from the white man NOT black women.

    White men chose to attack and spew hatred on black women first!)

    First of all I would like to state that that is not the reason!!! WTH!!! I live in a 99.9% white neighborhood in Wisconsin, and out of all the white guys I met here, they want to date outside of their race, but it’s the contemplation of getting an educated black female to a ghetto black female. For example before I moved here, there were only two black girls whom were from Chicago, and they placed a racist stereotyped that all black girls are ghetto and ignorant acting, so when I moved here I was stereotyped to be just like them. Now after a year the white guys are used to me, and I’ve had plenty of opinions stated to me saying why they won’t marry a black girl…one of my good friends stated, ” It’s not the black girl I am worried about dating, it’s a girls’ family and how a girl was raised, if we can’t go nowhere without trouble, then I don’t want to be with a girl like that.”

    Another one of my friends stated, ” I love black girls, I want black kids, but I just want a pretty intelligent black girl who is not ghetto.”

    Should I state more??

    Now I don’t think my friends would say this to make me feel better, I think they’re telling the truth :)

    So white guys do want babies by black girls, and want to marry black girls, it’s just the matter of picking the right mate, and they do not hate black women.

    And what your talking about, was from slavery days haha, I already learned that, you should know that too. You can’t depict what the past white guys thought, to what white guys think now. >:( It’s not true!!!


  456. “I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! ”
    I don’t know all that…


  457. just 4 the record, i don’t think all white men are evil, i would never generalize and say all white men are evil. most of my experiences with white males have been alright. But I do think there is a point to be made. The white and black american cultures have been created in opposition to one another. Therefore, it is very difficult to be a white male be problack that is the point, thus its hard for many white males to be serious with black females, that’s my take.


  458. Chelsey,
    Like you, I’ve grown up in predominantly White areas where most of the men around me were White and experienced a lot of rejection from them in relationships solely because I was Black even though I don’t fit ANY ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES.
    I understand your point of view but feel that when MOST American WM/NON-BM (regardless of class) base their ideas of BW on LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES instead of approaching BW as INDIVIDUALS, they are behaving in a racist manner.

    If MOST American WM/NON-BM treated ALL NON-WW this way then I might draw a different conclusion but, in my experience, BW are the ONLY NON-WW who have NEGATIVE ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES (“ghetto, loud, ignorant, unfeminine, etc.) projected on them BEFORE these men have even met/gotten to know them.


  459. Chelsey Said:
    “I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! ”

    Says you, Woman! Typical!


  460. on Tue 5 Jan 2010 at 07:57:50 Rebecca Monae ❥

    I read your post and to be honest, I never understood why this is such a big deal to so many people. I’m a black girl, I was born and raised around almost ONLY white people, aside from my family. I relate more to white guys than other races of men, BUT I just don’t want to date them. I’ve met some really nice, and even cute/handsome white guys. They usually start out just staring at me trying to figure me out & then (usually after they hear me talk…) they come over or try to start a conversation. The thing about white guys is that I don’t think most black women trust them at all. I DON’T. Its kind of from the history, but more because EVERYONE always says no white man would want a black woman for anything more than sex, so thats always in the back of my mind.

    After that, I feel like I’m one of the lucky black women whose been exposed to the world and people. i come from a good family, I love my history and I have love and pride in being an African American and I love black people. I would feel WEIRD ending up with any white guy because of that. I’m not from the ghetto so I wouldn’t think of dating a ghetto white guy, then most of the rest have NO idea of anything that has to do with black people or our culture. That would be too awkward to me. However, I think my #1 reason is just that I don’t want a mixed family. i don’t want mixed kids or a white husband AT ALL! That might sound weird & pretty racist, but I couldn’t do that. Light features run in my family, blue/green eyes, blonde & even red hair! If I had a kid with a white guy I would be weirded out if it looked white. I want black kids. Dark skin, black features, I want them to know and have pride in where we come from & their roots, I want them to be raised well and nice by 2 black parents because people act like thats impossible (I know its not, I have 2 black parents!).

    Thats my dream. If white men, as you say, don’t marry black women, I could care less. I’m a 20 y/o black girl, in college, I come from a family of successful people, I’m slightly spoiled (I dont like to admit that *bites lip & smiles*) but I’ve got a pretty good head on my shoulders, White men are not my problem – I think finding the right BLACK guy is going to require a lot of work! lol

    Plus, most of the black women i know now aren’t really interested in white men. I think the 2 of us don’t have more relationships because we just don’t seek each other out as much. Plain & simple.


  461. Its kind of from the history, but more because EVERYONE always says no white man would want a black woman for anything more than sex, so thats always in the back of my mind.

    As opposed to guys in general who, when they meet a woman in a bar or other social environment for the first time, immediately start thinking about relationships? :)

    Rebecca, sex is the number one thing on most men’s minds when they “come over or try to start a conversation” and I’m surprised you think this a black/white issue.

    Yeah, I agree that black women have to be more careful around white guys due to racism and, were I a black woman, I certainly wouldn’t be dating a white guy unless I got to know him pretty well.

    But to condemn white men for thinking about sex – or even thinking ONLY about sex – when they approach a woman…?

    I highly doubt that there’s a guy posting here, no matter how well married, no matter how in love, who approached his current mate for the first time thinking “Gee, I wonder if she’s interested in a relationship?”


  462. laromana and Rebecca Monae

    Thank you I agree with both of you, if WW were treated just like BW then I would also have a different conclusion. Just that’s the conclusion i’ve grown up having learned from my mom and dad whom are black :)

    and Rebecca I also agree with you, not to be contradicting, but just because we’ve lived in white areas don’t mean we have to like white guys…(you’re correct). I was just stating how it’s a little obvious that BW who live in all white areas tend to look towards white guys, if there are no black guys around. I’ve met maybe two black guys whom are great candidates for me and who don’t fit the stereotypical black male. So you’re right it all matters on searching for that right male. I’ve also made contemplations on having a baby by a white guy vs a black guy, and me also my baby would come white looking with a white guy, and with a black guy it would come out light-skinned :)but I’m not against blacks in any way, mainly because I am black and I am also proud of my race :) And you go girl about college :)


  463. Thaddeus said:

    “I highly doubt that there’s a guy posting here, no matter how well married, no matter how in love, who approached his current mate for the first time thinking “Gee, I wonder if she’s interested in a relationship?”

    LOL!


  464. Thaddeus:

    If you read part III you will see why black women are wise to suspect white men more than black men:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/why-so-few-white-men-marry-black-women-part-iii/


  465. It’s imperative that BW know that, like ALL WOMEN of ANY RACE, they have the option to love, date, and marry ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE who treats her with dignity and respect.

    Also, like like ALL WOMEN of ANY RACE, BW do not owe ANY man loyalty solely on the basis of RACE, especially if that man doesn’t respect her HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.


  466. I read part III. In short, it’s because of so many white guys who are a**holes in their approach.

    Well, blow them off because of that, no doubt! But to say that you’re worried that a guy’s approaching you because he has sex on his mind (and probably only sex)… Well, yeah. So?


  467. BW are INDIVIDUALS and don’t ALL THINK ALIKE when it comes to interracial relationships. That’s why GENERALIZATIONS about BW and their feelings about interracial relationships tend to be misleading/false.

    SOME BW are interested in dating and/or marrying WM/NON-BW and SOME BW are not.

    SOME BW are ONLY interested in dating and/or marrying BM and SOME BW are not.

    SOME BW are ONLY interested in dating and/or marrying WM/NON-BM and SOME BW are not.

    SOME BW are interested in dating and/or marrying ANY MAN of ANY RACE and SOME BW are not.


  468. Those who agree with white people most of the time and do it well get their books published and get to talk on television. I call them Rented Negroes. Amy Holmes, as beautiful as she is, is one. So is John McWhorter, even though I like some of his books.

    So because a black person that is successful then you say they are “Rented Negroes”?
    You are the reason why you are not successful. Success does NOT equal “agree with white people”
    You should be ashamed.


  469. I’m Black:

    You can be successful without kissing up to white opinion. Nothing wrong at all in being successful. Most of us try our best to be.

    What Rented Negroes do, though, is become successful BY MEANS OF kissing up to white opinion. They are sell-outs. That is what I object to.


  470. You know what concerns me. Some white man keeps saying “I would date a black woman, If she wasn’t ghetto”Now why would a black woman want to be involved with a man who thinks like this? There are “ghetto acting” black woman and there are other types of black women. I mean, before you would marry any woman, you would take the time to get to know her. Any intelligent man would give a person a chance to show their real personality and it takes time to figure out who a person really is. You can’t just look at a person and assume what type of person they are. It’s incredible that people who say they are not racist but continue to say racist comments. If white people were so perfect why is the divorce rate among whites so high. Marriage is difficult and I am sure that if any person is unhappy in a marriage they get angry, they say things they regret, and I am sure there are white women who do this, just like black women. If any thing, black women would be more likely, not white men, to be concerned with the attitudes of white men given their history of racism in this country. But yet there are black woman who would give a white man a chance to show who he really is by SPENDING TIME with them. Personally I have spent time with quite a few white men and I have met some good ones and I have met some real jerks. But I don’t make assumptions about all people based on racist stereotypes. It is amazing to me. One minute you say “I am not a racist. I would date a black woman” and then say ” but I wouldn’t because they are all ghetto” Isn’t that a racist comment? No one wants to be with someone who is that narrow minded. So If there are some white men who think like this, understand, black woman are in no hurry to be with someone who is like this. We want to be with someone who is humble enough to realize that people don’t always fit into the little box that they want to put them in. Humility is important.


  471. I mean all I have to say is that people can be really sad. It is like people seem to hold black people to some higher standard. If a black person makes mistakes, people go ” I told you all black people are like this” but when white people make mistakes people go ” Well, none of us are perfect”. Black woman are human. Not perfect people. They suffer from more humiliation, poverty, abuse, racism, and sexism than any group of people yet people expect them be perfect. As Karyn White says ” I’m not your superwoman”. We are human. Yet people make racist comments to take away from our humanity yet insist they have good intentions. A man who has good intentions would take the time to get to know people. The people who are good to you, you keep them in your life, and the people who are bad to you, you leave them alone. It’s that simple. Race has nothing to do with it.


  472. The reason why people hold on to their racist assumptions is because they are too cowardly to take a chance on people. To talk to them because it is too easy for them to make assumptions about them. Maybe it is a defense mechanism, I am not sure. But people should stop being cowards. Stop hiding behind your little computers making all of these offensive comments and take the time to reach out to people who appear different from you. You can’t just get to know people on the computer. People say ” well I liked black people but after reading their comments on the internet, I am not sure” Well there are many blacks who feel the same way. I can’t tell you how many racist comments that came from white people that I have read on the internet. So yes I think there should be some caution. There are alot of bad people out there. But you can’t summarize a whole race of people based on the comments of a few people. Some people are total( And I mean total jerks), yet there are good people in every race.So stop being cowardly and show other people some love. It will do you and the person you are showing some love to a whole lot of difference. If any thing we should try to use our computers to reach out to one another and have constructive dialogue. To get rid of the ignorance, not make it worse. Think about it.


  473. And another thing, be weary of what people say. Some of these people are making comments to keep stuff up.


  474. Jeri sez:
    And slavery days was about rape and kidnapping we are talking about marriage and relationships two different things.

    We’ve been through this on another thread. Suffice it to say that I’m currently reading every serious study of black/white sexual relations that I can get my hands on(and there are very few – in the U.S. this topic runs mostly on myth and politics and not solid information), as well as eyewitness experiences, and I feel very safe in saying that no, rape and kidnapping were not the center of black and white sexual relations in slavery days. Neither was love and “mutual respect” certainly didn’t play into it.

    Interracial rape is the U.S.’ greatest bugaboo and there is little proof that it happens – or has ever happened -anywhere as near as often as Americans, black or white, feel that it has. Some very odd presumptionms regarding race and sex are built into the rape myth. Rather than get into a huge debate about this again, however, I think that I’m going to marshall what initial evidence I have and do a write up on my blog. So if you have the urge to flame me, please wait to do it over there, or go over to the “White men and black women in slavery days” thread and do it there.

    And just to deal with the most common knee-jerk reaction, no my theory does not “pretty up” slavery or blame the woman. If anything, it more solidly condemns white people by incorporating what we know about evil and how it works (thank you Hanna Arendt!) and what we know about sex and how it works into the history of slavery. At least look at what’s actually being said before flying off the handle.

    Now, Jeri also says:

    The reason white men don’t marry black women is because they don’t want their children to be black, YES that is true.

    Now THIS is very, very true and is, I suspect, far more at the root of the matter than rape. Places which allowed interracial conjugality and, in fact, practiced it quite a bit don’t have the rape myth: there, the betrayal myth comes to the fore much more strongly. So why would two countries, both which practice brutal versions of black chattel slavery, generate two separate myths about black/white sexual relations? Black women didn’t have any more power in Brazil than, say, the U.S. Rape was as common in the one as the other.

    I would suggest that it has to do with legal codes and cultural habits not regarding rape, but regarding concubinage and the raising of the children of such unions. By and large, mulato children seemed to be much more incorporated into the dominant social system in Brazil than in the States.

    Like I said, I’ve been pondering this for a few weeks now while reading White, Genovese and every book on miscegenation I can get my hands on. When I’ve let it sit in my brain a bit, I’m going to write it up and we’ll see what we see.

    (BtW, something which might not be obvious to folks: “myth” is not a synonym of life. In anthropology, it’s a story a people tell because they feel a need to independent of the facts. The facts might be in accordance, partially in accordance, or completely at odds with the myth. Many times, the facts simply aren’t known. Myths aren’t lies, however, because they express what a people FEELS to be true on a very deep level.)


  475. Thaddeus

    You said that I made a comment that white men weren’t with black woman because they don’t want black children?
    WHEN DID I SAY THIS? I think you are confusing me with someone else. I think I asked the question if white men wanted children of a different color. I asked the question I didn’t claim anything. You have been reading so many comments you are mixing them up.


  476. As a black woman, I think that during this time when black women are seen as the most unattractive women on planet earth, I think that black women should see this as a possible blessing. It gives black women a break in which they have time to heal, time to continue their education, time to become the women they were created to be.

    If they are rejected by a white man or any other man, they should breathe a sigh of relief, and focus on their goals. When they become the women, the queens they were meant to be, relationships and everything else will fall into place.

    My sisters, don’t wait to exhale. Exhale now, and move toward your goals.


  477. white men haven’t been brainwashed by jews to accept bestiality and misogyny as “normal” or desired.

    jews have worked on white women for 40 years to breed down and have mongrels that look nothing like them.

    every monkey has his own branch. you stay on yours, Ill stay on mine.


  478. BW are not to blame for the MANY ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES (BW are ugly, BW are at the bottom of the totem pole, BW are not worthy of marriage, BW are “ghetto”,etc.) directed at them byAmerican media/culture. MANY BW have demonstrated (through their impressive achievements in many fields) that they are NOTHING like the NEGATIVE ANTI-BW images American media/culture loves to promote of them. Like women of ANY RACE, BW DESERVE to have their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY respected.

    Based on the profound level of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that STILL exists in 21st century American society, it’s clear that BW aren’t the ones who NEED to CONSTANTLY “better” themselves in order to be “more acceptable” to EVERYONE ELSE. Instead, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are the ones who NEED to IMPROVE/CHANGE their HATEFUL/RACIST attitudes towards BW.


  479. Trash sez:
    every monkey has his own branch. you stay on yours, Ill stay on mine.

    Let’s just staple gun your feet there to make sure, shall we?


  480. where i grew up it was and still is very rare to see a black or dark man with a white or light woman but very common to see a black or dark women with a white or light man.
    I guess this is partially due to the ‘precious’ white woman stereotype and the opposite stereotype of promiscuous over sexed black woman.
    oh and i’m sure the old colonial stereotype of ‘white man can do whatever he wants, have sex with whoever he wants’ but women of any race and black men were not allowed that liberty because it would threaten dominance of white men.


  481. Hello to all. I am a white guy and I have followed this and the first post by aba. I stumbled on it by following youtube links and googling after I got curious. These post seem to eventually come to some good old white bashing because of some idiot remark from a skinhead white moron. Let me say I am from the deep south where racisim is alive and kickin. Let there be no mistakes about what I mean, here it goes both ways. whites and blacks are both keeping it going. So I want to offer this, I wont say I will date a black girl because I find that insulting to black ladies. I will date a women reguardless of color. I dont see color as a factor. I look at shape first. It’s a matter of genetics for all animals to seek the best material for there offspring. If your really nice looking but not so bright I wont date you. I’ll date a less pretty women over a prettier one if she is smart. Also if I have kids, I wouldnt care if they are green I would kill to protect them, so not wanting black children is something I cant get my mind around. If they’re my child, you will respect them! In the intrest of not taking up to much space I’ll just say, I’m open to questions and you will get an honest answer without the chump insults.


  482. Ok, first question.

    You wrote “green”. Also if I have kids, I wouldnt care if they are green I would kill to protect them Why green? There’s no way you’ll have green children. However, you might have black kids if you have them with a black woman. So why didn’t you write “black”?


  483. Byron says:

    Let there be no mistakes about what I mean, here it goes both ways. whites and blacks are both keeping it going.

    I wrote about this recently on my blog. I’d be pleased to get your ideas on it, Byron, even if I disagree with your BS about animals and genetics. ;)

    http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/black-women-and-white-men.html


  484. ok, first to your question mira. I wrote black first but then as I read over it, it sounded like I was being …… well to specific. I say this because I dont mean if they were black. I mean if they are of ANY race, so I used a non specific color. Sorry if I should have said black, it was implied.
    Thaddeus, thanks for the invite. I’d be happy to join you. Sorry we disagree on the basics of attraction. If I may ask, what do you believe causes you to find someone attractive? I think the more we understand ourselves and admit our faults, we can then start to repair them by changing the way we see eachother. It’s not supposed to be about these racist white ppl or those racist black ppl! It’s about YOU!


  485. Byran asks:
    If I may ask, what do you believe causes you to find someone attractive?

    Aside from some very, very basic commonalities (i.e. people all across the world seem to find symetry attractive), I’d say culture far outwieghs genetics on this point and I’d say that’s easily proven by the historical record.

    Even in the last hundred years in the U.S., beauty standards have drastically changed. If it were biology programming this, we’d expect to see the same sort of beauty codes the world over. That’s only begun to happen, however, with the advent of mass, globalized media.


  486. Also an interesting topic but I digress. I tried to post to your thread but I have no google or other accts to use for my name. Tell Michelle to do what makes her happy. If she’s happy it will help make her children happy and to start her own legacy. She sounds like a wonderful woman. I wish her the best.


  487. one thing is reaeeeeeaaaally bugging me about this thread. One thing. Its that people still believe white men have a “colonial” complex in their minds that makes them think black women are sex slaves. Also, it disturbs me to hear some people imply that when they see a white man, they think of the “colonial” rapist who raped their kin in the past, which draws them not to consider white men as partners.

    This seems rediculous to me. So, every time i see a chinese person, should i run and hide, in fear they might pillage me, like the mongols? Every time i see a middle eastener, i should give them a hateful stare, cuz theyre probly a terrorist? How insane. Its preconcieved judgement based apon ones race…wait, what is that called…? oh, racism!!!!

    also, i love how people might assume that “my great grandad was a raping, hanging machine” that he owned slaves, so, logically, i am the same way. ummmmmm……my parents came hear in1944, in fear they would be killed by nazis. So, throw that assumption out the window. The statement itself if rediculous, because even if ones history led back to a grand parent or great grandparent owning a slave, does that mean the relative today possesses some sort of thirst for racial violence, or lust for raping black women? No. Im not saying “get over it[slavery]” as some of you might assume im implying. Im not saying that at all. Im just saying STOP linking me, as a white american male, to some fictional, slave owning grand father, that doesnt exist in my family line. STOP, PLEASE!


  488. @ confused.
    I agree with you that its unfair to judge someone by their ancestors.

    prepare for people to get angry over your comments.. there seems to be a few people who frequent this blog who think all white people are evil. *sigh*


  489. bryan51672

    There’s nothing wrong in being specific. Using non human colours often sounds like a “purple people” argument, which implies you don’t seriously think about race. If you really decide to marry and have children with a black (or non-white woman), chances are that she will take race much more seriously.

    Thaddeus Blanchette

    I am another person who can’t post comments over at your website (I managed to do it with one post, but it’s not working anymore). Is there another way to contact you?


  490. confused,
    Where are you getting the idea that most of the commenters on this post are focused on the concept that white men have a “colonial” complex in their minds that makes them think black women are sex slaves”?

    Most of the commenters on this thread are discussing reasons (derived from personal life experiences or that of others) why so few WM marry BW. A major theme that is mentioned in this post is the prevalence of ANTI-BW RACISM (eg.(BW are ugly, BW are at the bottom of the totem pole, BW are not worthy of marriage, BW are “ghetto”,etc.) that is CONTINUALLY promoted in American media/culture how this leads MANY WM NOT to consider BW for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE.

    Although this may be an uncomfortable topic for SOME WM to discuss, abagond provides a forum where HONEST dialogue can take place that could lead to a change in the way we think about certain it.


  491. I love black women. That hot chick from CSI Miami is hot. Their skin is like butter. Very hot. And I kinda like the way they are not afraid of sex.


  492. Confused:

    Laromana makes an excellent point. Instead of putting words in our mouth, quote one of us and go after that. This thread has 565 comments, so there should be plenty of material.


  493. I was at chucky cheese yesterday and there were at least 3 fine black women there. The one with dreads is lucky that we’re both married or I would have been all over that like white on rice on snow on Styrofoam on a paper plate. Yeah, her husband had the same name as me too.


  494. I’m white,

    whatever. Why is it about “being all over that”.


  495. Not everyone on this post are saying that all White men are the devil. We are just giving out observations of why so few White men marry Black women and to tell you the truth most of it stems from racist ideology. I just wish some people would just admit that this topic makes them feel uncomfortable instead of skimming this post and coming up with a generalized assumptions. If you don’t like it skip it.


  496. I second that Islandgirl.

    Our skin is like butter and we’re not afraid of sex. Yep, must be a black woman thing alright. :smdh:

    Certain things are best taken with a pinch of salt.


  497. I’m white said:

    “I love black women. That hot chick from CSI Miami is hot. Their skin is like butter. Very hot. And I kinda like the way they are not afraid of sex.”

    So wait, what does the skin of white women feel like? Rubber?

    Also: since when were white women afraid of sex or more afraid than black women? And how do you know this?


  498. I’m white:

    Are you married to a black woman or do you just secretly lust after them at Chuck E. Cheese’s?


  499. on Mon 11 Jan 2010 at 23:51:22 Laveumthinking

    @ Im white

    Your comment about black women not being afraid of sex is offensive. If you truly respected black women you would not refer to us as loose (Jezebel stereotype) women.


  500. “I’m white” is such a troll. S/he is probably just writing that stuff to get a rise out of people. Ignore.


  501. Are you married to a black woman or do you just secretly lust after them at Chuck E. Cheese’s?

    ROFLMAO! He probably lusts after them at Chuckie Cheese, LOL! Is that a real place? If so that’s a hilarious name! I got a good belly laugh out of that one. As for ‘I’m white’, he sounds like one of those guys who lives in his mother’s basement watching porn all day with a jar of vaseline on hand, LOL!


  502. Chuck E. Cheese’s is a place where kids scream and eat pizza and play games:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_E._Cheese%27s

    http://www.chuckecheese.com/the-experience/


  503. Oh great, he goes to a kid’s restaurant to ogle and secretly lust after black women, LOL.


  504. Imagining I’m White at Chuck E. Cheese’s: LMAO


  505. At my University I am in a class called Human Development, and what I learnt is that white men prefer black women over any race. I know this may be hard to hear coming from a black girl, but this is what I’m learning. I am not trying to get any opposition from your own opinions; I’m just stating a true common fact.

    What are your sources on this?


  506. One of the most remarkable aspects of the comments on this thread is this: there is extraordinary concern and anxiety about the imagined thoughts of other people who observe, encounter or know the mixed-race couple.

    Fear of other’s opinions and biases dominates. That’s certain death for a relationship.

    It’s also apparent that a lot of posters are too young to have had a true adult relationship.


  507. on Tue 12 Jan 2010 at 02:29:13 Laveumthinking

    Chelsey:

    white men prefer black women over any race.

    What planet do you live on. White men have made it very clear that they perfer white women over any other and if they were to go outside their race it would be with an asian woman. Black women are the least desired by white men as marriage statistics show. White men who would even consider dating a black woman are the minority.

    It is also true that white men wouldn’t mind having a black child, because it’s different. It’s outside of their race

    Are children now guinea pigs? What do you mean by “different”? That is the worst reason to have a child. Do you even know what some biracial children go through because some people veiw them as “different”. Racist white people veiw black people as “different” and inferior.

    I’m not trying say that white men are high superiority, just cause I have an amazing white boyfriend

    If you’re not trying to say white men are superior, why even mention your “amazing” white boyfriend?

    Not all white men are nasty to black females. If so, I say to check your attitude, because most likely the black woman that’s being treated nasty is treating him nasty as well.

    I see you too stereotype black women as having nasty attitudes. I now understand why you two are together you just like many white people feel a need to justify racism by saying black people bring it on themselves.

    Majority of white men are respectful to any girl who is attractive

    Why not respect all women regardless of how they look?


  508. First of all I speak for my and myself only, I’m through with this stupid thread…you guya can’t take comments, becuase I’m either racist towards my own race, which is blacks, or I am sucking up to the white race. I am not doing either one. I was trying to state my fucking opinion on what I’ve learned and how I feel about this stupid ass topic, but obviously people can’t handle the damn truth….I’m through!!

    And the truth is:

    White men do like black women…secretly pehaps, but they like us.

    They would prefer a black baby because it’s not white like them.

    Any race that’s not of color wants to have pigmentation
    why do think everyone is mixed!!! Everyone!! No one is pure no one.

    I am not stereotyping any black person, it just hurts to tell the truth from one black person to another….and I’m not racist towards blacks in any way, because I’m black myself.

    Why mention my boyfriend? Because I wanted to prove that BW don’t have to think negatively all the fucking time.

    If anyone replies to this I DON’T CARE NO MORE cause with each reply given to me is more stupid than the first one. (Not saying that black people are stupid)

    I just happen to know that you’re black cause you automatically said I was stereotyping…WTH if I was stereotyping believe me I would not be on your side….oh wait you can’t see that >:(


  509. I said attractive!!!! that does not mean ugly or pretty it just means attractive…so any male who finds you attractive!!!! wow seriously look up words and see what the hell they mean people


  510. no_slappz, where have you been. I missed you, LOL!


  511. on Tue 12 Jan 2010 at 03:42:01 Laveumthinking

    Why dont you look up the definition and you will see that attractive, like many other words has more than one meaning, one referring to physical appearance. The way you used the word attractive in your statement could describe someone physically or their personality. Most men use the word when referring to a womans appearance.


  512. on Tue 12 Jan 2010 at 06:07:22 prclezThoughts

    Wow. Not sure what to think after reading these posts. So I thought I’d state my own opinons.

    1st I want everyone to know I was born and raised in Toledo, Ohio and most of my friends growing up were mixed with one thing or another, my father as well is white and black. I never thought of myself as sheltered I just never saw color first or been thrown into a situation.. Til I turned a teen and my family moved to Charlotte, Nc. Oh my. I am met more people of all different types here and finally understood why people give out sterotypes. I do not believe we should, however it happens.

    I do believe times are changing and race isn’t the only varible in most situations anymore. I have been blessed at work to get ahead and more promotions than anyone else in my department. Even though my father is mixed I consider myself strictly black. I have met racist people who proclaimed to not like black people yet feel the need to say “but your pretty/nice/cool” 1st time I heard it was like a slap in the face and halarious in the sense that I do not believe they know what prejudice really means. Most people have never had to open themselves up enough to deal with different races. I’ve been snubbed at work a few times before all by white woman who perferred someone to help them that reflects them. However my most valuable and loyal customers are all white (and two black) couples.

    Also when we accept customers during my school hours I get swarmed by white woman who say they appreciate my skills and the way I carry myself. Depending on the situation I am in sometimes I talk more proper (Ohio speech) and other times I cuss a bit more. I don’t see this as a negative thing or hiding who I am. I am both of these sides, we must learn to become bigger than ourselves. Bigger than race and stereotypes. Theres a larger picture that remains to be seen, a picture I imagine Pres. Obama is working towards. But this is just my thoughts.


  513. Why so few white men marry black women? I think the truth is that the more color is an issue the less likely mixed marriages are to happen. If you marry a white guy and he is always saying white this and black that, how long will it last? The truth is even the comments on here from women that like white guys get to sound bad after I hear it repeatedly. (white guy here). I dont want to be your white guy and I dont want a black women. I just want a nice, smart and funny women! What color? STOP with the color mess. White guys will date you if you show interest and the ones that wont dont matter. It’s the same for us!! If we ask a nice lady of color out, there’s no garanty she will say yes. if she says no then we find another lady we are interested in. It’s not white or black, it’s dating period! So why is there not more wm/bw couples? I think the reasons are alot more simple that everyone give credit to. Fear of rejection by both based on color is a likely one. So is cultural differences. For the most part white guys like any women that tells him he is sexy or handsome. Most of the racist whites I know are hillbilly redneck types. Would you want one of those? The nice looking white guys are usually better raised and more open. If you like a guy, let him know. Be blunt or be subtle, just make a move. He may be interested but saying to himself “she wouldnt give me the time of day, I’m white”. The really handson white guys may not have this problem but he has alot of options and most times I think will go for the more exceptable option. Less chance of getting beat up or hearing racial remarks from both sides. Sad but it happens. I say dont be a part of the race wars! I refuse to be! I like you because your a sweet, loyal person or I dislike you because you are mean and say ugly things about ppl. Judge me by the human standard, not the color standard. I am a white guy and I want to know you because you are worth knowing.


  514. Chelsey, I’d like to see a source for that stuff you’re learning too, please.

    Bryan and Mira, the blogs comments section is now fixed and should let you ijn. Please tell me if you’re still having trouble.


  515. Mira says -There’s nothing wrong in being specific. Using non human colours often sounds like a “purple people” argument, which implies you don’t seriously think about race. If you really decide to marry and have children with a black (or non-white woman), chances are that she will take race much more seriously.
    I dont seriously think about race? Your right I dont! Racing importance is the poisoned well we keep trying to drink from now! Why make race the topic everyone needs to be aware of? Isn’t the over sensitive value on race instead of moral value the problem now? Why should I be concerned with color? I think everyone needs to see the person first, the values and opinions next and color not at all. It’s not that way but it has to begin somewhere why not with you and I? color is a topic here and I see no problem talking about it but if I married a black women and have kids. I wont to discuss our next vacation, how our kids are doing in school, what we will service this weekend when our friends come over. Race I will discuss but I dont wont it to be so big that it takes over our lives. If I married her it wasnt a big factor then, why let it become one later?


  516. sorry it sould be serve above not service, lol.


  517. @bryan51672

    Ok that’s all well and good but race is a thing that people of colour have to deal with on a daily basis and not talking about that problem does not make it go away. The image of somebody with their fingers in their ears scream “Lalalalalala!” come to mind.


  518. Aiyo-Ok that’s all well and good but race is a thing that people of colour have to deal with on a daily basis and not talking about that problem does not make it go away.
    I really dont understand competely. You deal with race everyday? How so, and what would you advice ppl to do to work for unity?


  519. bryan51672,

    I am not saying race should matter. But it does. Maybe not as much to you (white guy), but non-white people have to deal with it all the time, because society won’t let them forget the fact they’re not white (and therefore not privileged members of the same society).


  520. Mira,

    I cosign. Please forgive me for today’s rant on this post above but I had to speak the truth about the state of race relations.

    La Reyna


  521. bryan51672 says,
    For the most part white guys like any women that tells him he is sexy or handsome. Most of the racist whites I know are hillbilly redneck types. Would you want one of those? The nice looking white guys are usually better raised and more open. If you like a guy, let him know. Be blunt or be subtle, just make a move. He may be interested but saying to himself “she wouldnt give me the time of day, I’m white”. The really handson white guys may not have this problem but he has alot of options and most times I think will go for the more exceptable option

    laromana says,
    bryan51672,
    I understand that there are some who may want to DENY REALITY, but the TRUTH is that in my ACTUAL LIFE experience (and that of other BW I know who are/have ALWAYS BEEN OPEN to IRR’S with WM) MANY WM (regardless of looks, class, state of origin, upbringing, personality, etc.) in America who claim to be attracted to BW, may not have a problem with having a CASUAL or strictly sexual relationship with a BW but are “AFRAID” (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) to be in a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship with a BW (because of what OTHERS might say about a BW/WM relationship) or they don’t feel BW are “good enough” (ANTI-BW RACISM) to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY. These same WM have NO PROBLEM establishing SERIOUS/PERMANENT IRR’S with OTHER NON-WW (Asians, White Latinas, East Indians, etc.).

    In either case, BW (regardless of looks, personality, character, educational level, career success, class, etc.) ARE NOT TO BLAME when MANY (ANTI-BW COWARD/ANTI-BW RACIST ) WM in America reject them for SERIOUS IRR’S SOLEY BECAUSE THEY ARE BW.
    BW did NOT INVENT ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (or the “race wars”) in American society/media/culture but our lives are affected by it from the time we are born to the day we die.

    Like you, I would like to see ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (and ALL RACISM) DESTROYED but, until that happens, I’m forced to HONESTLY confront the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that continue to affect the quality of my relationships and other parts of my life as a BW in America.


  522. Actually I’m half white and half Asian. I grew up in a small rural town in NC. The population was like 2500 people. Majority of them were black. My schools we all 60/40 black/white at best. I sometimes feel like I’m black. I was constantly called names because I was the only asian kid in the entire town. The black kids called me chinese and didn’t bother to ask what I was. It didn’t really bother me though. During high school, the black girls just wanted me badly. They would say things like “mmm, we could make some pretty babies.” I hooked up with a black girl once and she was cool. I liked her. I like black women. They are strong and not timid.

    @Laveumthinking: I meant that as a compliment. Black women are strong and can stand up for what they want. They are not timid and shy. They are vocal and deserve to be heard and loved.

    you guys are cool. “you guys” = this blog and the contributors.

    Unity by any means necessary.


  523. I like Monique too. I think she would consider me one of her own.
    She is confident and that is sexy on any woman.
    Black white brown green skinny fat whatever.
    Confidence is SEXY!
    Guys…am I right? Do you think confidence in a woman is SEXY?


  524. Think about all the haterade back in the 90s when Whitney Houston married Bobby Brown.

    Now THERE`S a model couple…


  525. I am an educated white man who likes all kind of people; I have lots of friends of different races, religions and sexuality and it does not change how I feel about them. I have a lot of black friends, and I love being friends with black girls. I love them as friends, but have never felt the desire to date, have sex with or marry one. Its just not how I feel, its just not there. It has nothing to do with their race. I also get the same feeling back….they love me as a friend, but have no dating, sex or marriage feeling for me either. I have never been with a black girl, and don’t think I ever will. Ditto for them, I do not feel they feel that way about me. Yet there is not a bit of racism or prejudice either way.


  526. Here’s what I think:

    Americans take sex FAR too seriously. Only an American would try to make sex into a political or life-style statement.

    The rest of us out here in the real world are just happy to get some, now and then, and if we can find someone compatible who we can build a loving relationship with, that’s just great.

    Appropriate color-coding is the last thing anyone should worry about when it comes to the libido.


  527. Just stumbled on to this topic from the UK. I am a black woman that has been dating a lovely white guy for the last 6 years and I couldn’t imagine being with anyone else. He worships me and wants to marry me. I am an educated working professional in media. I didn’t date him because of skin colour, we met and there was an instant chemistry which is key to any relationship regardless of colour. In fact I would probably not have chosen him in another world as he is fair haired, and a musician. I thought I would be with a dark, high flying, mover and shaker. However, we just clicked as we are both creative, attractive and just connect on all levels. The chemistry was electrifying!! Sure we have had our ups and down like any other couple but those problems have not been related to race but more to do with having a relationship. Relationships can be challenging regardless of colour. I’m trying to say that a black woman and white guy can have a normal relationship like anyone else and it has nothing to do with race.

    I have never had problems attracting men from all races and I have dated both black and white men and found good qualities in both. It just happens that the guy I am in love with is white!

    I think the issue of white men not marrying black women works both ways as it is a matter of ‘choice’. There is a stigma attached to this and for this reason a lot of black women, by ‘choice’ will not date white men let alone marry them. Much of this is related to the woman’s upbringing ( taught from an early age to date within the race) and the deep rooted psychological effects of slavery. They fear what people in the community will think and give off a vibe that says “Stay Clear” to all white men that approach. So it’s not only about white men not choosing black women to marry. There are probably a lot of white guys out there that are interested in black women but are not confident in approaching them because they give off that vibe. They are mostly likely to have come from backgrounds where they have not had the opportunity to engage with women from different cultural backgrounds and feel that they have to approach in a special way. All women want to be wooed and swept off their feet. A woman is a woman at the end of the day regardless of colour (it’s just skin)!! There are also those (probably the majority) whose perceptions of black women are clouded by stereotypes and will not date based on this as they have not been put in a situation where these stereotypes have been challenged. Stalemate for BW/WM relationship!!
    I think if more white men had/or created opportunities to engage with black women and black women were more open to the idea, they would find that they have more in common than they think. Black women are strong, independent, ambitious, have vibrant personalities and can hold their own. These qualities rank high with most men as no man really wants a submissive woman that they will eventually get bored with and lose respect for. There will never be dull moment with a black woman!!

    I have black female friends who are working professionals that were totally opposed to dating white men but are slowly becoming more open to the idea. Many of these women work alongside white men in high powered roles so they get to know them by working alongside them. Here ‘race’ goes out the window and it becomes more about personality and chemistry. This is why there is an increase in the number of black women/white men relationships in the UK. Those relationships formed usually last a long time as the couple has built a mutual respect for each other over a period of time by working together or getting to know each other through the same circle of friends. Plus, it helps that the couple are on an equal level, ecomonicaly and professionally. You would not find many black women seeking a dead beat white guy but that is the case for any race of guy. Every woman aspires to be with a man that is her equal, that is ambitious and motivated to succeed in whatever he chooses to do. This has nothing to do with race.

    I also have a number of black male friends who are working professionals. Although they are open-minded about inter-racial relationships, they date/marry equally successful black woman by ‘choice’.

    It’s human nature to gravitate towards your own kind, however opposites do attract and fall in love!!!

    I think this topic/issue is more relevant to the USA as things are different here in the UK and Europe at large. Although America is considered to be a melting pot, I find it to be much more segregated than Europe where interracial relationships, diversity and multiculturalism are accepted, particularly in the UK. Change is definitely due in America, maybe having a bi-racial president will break down the walls of mental segregation (ingrained in the mind)!!


  528. Here’s another point:

    I think the differences between women and men are as vaster or even more vast than those outstanding between blacks and whites.

    In my own personal case, gender has caused far many more issues than color.

    And yet people seem to presume that gender issues are natural and “resolvable”, even though by all rights there should be as much historic bad blood between men and women ad between blacks and whites.


  529. Interesting. I always felt men and women are not that much different.


  530. Well, I’ve always felt the same about all humans, actually.

    But if we want to pull out the differences and emphasize those, men and women have at least as much call to be uncomfortable with each other as whites and blacks.


  531. on Wed 13 Jan 2010 at 05:41:14 Laveumthinking

    Why should black women even care about white men wanting to date them or not? There are other ethnicities of men. I get approached by sexy Latino men all the time.


  532. Men are women in essence have more in common than not… societal norms create this rift. Many of these problems, though, are more acute within the black community.


  533. Abagond,

    Maybe you should do a post on one or more of the following:

    black women and middle eastern men
    black women and hispanic men
    black women and indian men

    I think we get too caught up in these issues being black and white. Of course I know it’s because we don’t have the history with other races that we have with whites here in America. So that’s understandable.

    Who agrees that most of the interracial relationships you see either invole a black person and a non black person or a white person and a non white person? You rarely see like an asian dating an hispanic. It seems that blacks and whites date interracially more so than other races.


  534. Laveumthinking,

    I get approached and hit on by middle eastern men all the time! So I agree that this interracial talk shouldn’t always center around white men.


  535. Laveumthinking,

    When ever the talk of interracial relationships comes up white people always get mentioned I remebr watching something on youtube and a black woman said her boyfirend wasn’t black and people automatically assumed that her boyfired was white and left bad comments and she came back saying she never said her boyfriend was black he was in fact chinese jamaican.


  536. I agree with Shani, the issue isn’t always about black and white. Why don’t people ever ask why South Asian and East Asian men don’t marry black women? How many of these inter-racial relationships do you see? It is rare here in the UK as many of those of Indian and Pakistani descent will not marry a black woman because of the confines of religion and their culture (cast system). The same with Chinese and Japanese. They may desire or have an interest in black women but will not take it further, as in their cultures black is deemed to be the lowest of the low. Those that do take it beyond flirting/dating (mainly females dating white/black men) pay heavy consequences such as their families totally disowning them. Particularly if it is Asian woman/Black man. Their families are a little more tolerant if it is Asian woman/White man.

    There is racism between different non-white cultures even though there isn’t the same history as with blacks and whites. You would think that these cultures would be able to relate well with each other but it is not the case as each believes they are far superior than the other!
    This maybe down to slavery, imperialism or colonialism but isn’t it time that all of us in the non-white community moved on from this and put our energies into other things!!!


  537. Sorry but I have to disagree with the poster from the UK. Although there are some BW/WM couples they are tiny compare to WW/BM. It is rare to see a BW/WM couple in London compare to BM/WW and white men have even said this.

    I’ve read and heard WM and BM in the UK say they’re not attracted to BW and won’t date them due to BW having an ‘attitude’ or ‘not being attractive’.

    This is down to the Eurocentric beauty ideal that is promoted by the white media in the UK and the absence of Black female beauty – Why do you think Italian Vogue sold out in the UK!!

    Unfortunately, BW in the UK face similar racist treatment from both WM and some BM in the dating/marriage department.


  538. BlackgirlUK

    I hope I don’t offend you, but I think you must have misunderstood my comment. I didn’t say that BW/WM relationships were commonplace in the UK, only that there has been an ‘increase’ in this type of relationship. I know this because I am from the London area too and many of my black female friends would never have dreamed of dating a white man 10years ago but attitudes have changed over that period of time. Black culture has become a little more mainstream and there are more successful, black female professionals. Through work they form friendships with people from other cultures which opens out their circle of friends. This can lead to possible IRs. I work in the media field and I have a mix of friends, although the majority of them are black. I guess it depends on age/generation (35 and below age groups are probably more open to this), where you live, profession and the circle of friends people have. The ‘Voice’ did a feature on this, see following link:

    http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=12808

    Everyone knows that the percentage of BM/WW relationships is higher than BW/WM relationships, there is nothing new there. The topic of this post is not BM/WW relationships!!

    My point was that love is not about colour but more about chemistry and personality. Therefore it is not impossible for BW and WM to have a relationship if their barriers were put down and they had the opportunity to meet, fall in love and eventually get married. It is also about choice too and it isn’t a crime to favour a man/woman from your own background over one from a different background!! There are some people that are racist but for the majority, it is just about preference/choice. It’s just unfortunate for BW that there are less BM and a large percentage of them would prefer to date outside the race. So why hold out for them when there are other options!!! The issues of IRs here in the UK cannot be compared to those of the USA where segregation between the races still exists, not legally but mentally.

    I too bought the Italian Vogue ‘Black Issue’. However, an issue of Vogue produced out of ‘tokenism’ is not going to change society or the fashion industry’s view of black beauty. It would take a lot more than that!! All this did was increase sales for Italian Vogue. If Vogue wanted to make a point, then this issue would have been published worldwide in the various languages instead of just Italian. Or better still black beauty would feature on the pages of mainstream publications worldwide so that there wouldn’t be a need to address this with a one off ‘Black Issue’.


  539. Asian men and white men in the UK pursue affairs with black women as long as they are clandestine. There are exceptions though, I see plenty of BW/WM couples in London, they may be outnumbered by the WW/BM couples but they are there. Depends on what part of London you live. Middle class surburban areas tend to have BW/WM couples whereas Urban areas account for more WW/BM couples.

    The Bw ‘attitude’ is a cop out. To date/marry interracially is one thing, but to demean women of your own race to justify doing so is pathetic.
    I can understand the seemingly alarming exodus of black men from black women. I have to check myself from gawking at a thoroughly loved-up black couple, that’s how rare one would think they are. Usually African. Carribean males date interracially in much higher numbers.

    Black couples seem to be tucked away into the black community, away from the mainstream, but black couples are churning out black children, they are the overwhelming majority after all.

    The ‘straight-out-of-Africa look may be shunned by some black and white men, but let’s be careful not to project the experiences of a few to a whole group. I’ve never felt any overt damning of black women in the UK. We are a tiny minority, I’d say praise for black beauty is proportional to our numbers in a predominantly white country. The all-black Italian vogue sold out because there is some appreciation of black beauty.


  540. I agree with you totally MerriMay, the ‘attitude’ issue is a cop out and it is probably more rare to see BW/BM couples. The media doesn’t help by not portraying strong BF/BM family units. Look at Eastenders. What happened to shows like Desmonds? There will never be another Cosby Show.

    As to the Black Vogue issue, I thought that it was great that it sold out in appreciation for black beauty too and the images were stunning. That’s why I bought it. But it would have been even more great if they followed this through by continuing to use black models in all their worldwide editions and other publications followed their lead!!


  541. In response to Anonymous UK I did not mean to come across as defensive. I just wanted to let you and others know that BW in the UK are not view that differently from African-American women.
    BW in the UK don’t have the same history as African-Americans but there are common stereotypes about British BW which are similar to our American counterparts and I agree with MerriMary that WM and Asian men don’t mind having affairs with BW but don’t want to marry one or have a long- standing relationship this is due to it not being social acceptable to their communities.
    In regards to Black Vogue, the reason why it sold out is because a lot of Black women and teenager girls bought the issue. This shows that BW are desperate for images that reflect us in the UK.


  542. I know. You’d think they’d take the hint but that’s elitism for you. I wanted to be happy about that black issue– but I couldn’t help but ask myself, why did there need to be a black issue in the first place?


  543. BlackgirlUK & MerriMay

    I totally agree with both of you about WM having racist tendencies against BW and the clandestine activities of both Asian and WM. A number of them still see BW as exotic, sexual objects that they secretly lust over as in the days of slavery.
    But lets not also forget about the impact that BM not wanting to date/marry BW has. Their relationship (or should I say non-relationship) with BW speaks volumes to all the other races.

    The actions of BM may greatly influence the perception of BW to other races of men. The fact that they seek WW as partners over date BW, sends out negative messages. Men of other races think ‘Well if their own men don’t think they are good enough, why should we?” There is nothing wrong with BM dating WW provided their actions are genuine. Unfortunately, a lot of these relationships you see are for status/image where the BM deliberately seeks a WW as a partner. They then justify their actions with the BW ‘attitude’ or ‘aggressive’ line. They perceive being strong, independent and not wanting to be a doormat, for being ‘attitude’. There are a lot of WW that have these same qualities but they are never condemned. I think some BM feel threatened/intimidated by these qualities in BW as it makes them feel insecure that BW can manage without them. All men fundamentally want to be the provider and protector. However, we live in the modern age and women of all races are capable of looking after themselves.
    Someone made a comment earlier about how Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown were the perfect couple. I don’t agree at all. When Whitney’s career surpassed Bobby’s failing career, he couldn’t handle it so he helped her ruin it with drugs!! If he was a good husband, he would have helped her to continue achieving that success while building back his own career. Look at the dynamics of Jay Z and Beyonce’s relationship. I’m not saying they are the ‘model’ couple but it works, because they support each other in achieving their goals.

    For those BW of the UK, how may times have you seen a South Asian (Indian, Pakistani) man choose a WW over a South Asian woman? They are so proud of their women and culture (even though some of their practices may be questionable to those outside their culture). While other men may desire their women, few would go there out of respect for the South Asian culture. These women represent the unobtainable which makes them more alluring to other men as most men always want what they can’t have!! If BM were more protective over their relationships with BW then men of other races may have a different view of BW. BM seem to only be protective over BW when they see them dating outside the race and then it’s just words and not actions.

    Sorry I was going off on a tangent there as this post was about WM and BW. I’ve gotta stop coming on this page/blog, it’s becoming addictive!!


  544. I have to agree with Anonymous UK in regards to some and a growing majority of BM in UK behaviour towards BW. They display an open dislike/distain of BW to non-BM and this effects on how BW are perceived in the dating arena. I’ve read WM and non-BM say that they are not attracted to BW because BM don’t even like BW or date them, so there is a problem in the British Black community with this issue and I feel it it’s not being discussed because it’s taboo topic. Unfortunately BW are resorting to extreme measures to obtain a European beauty standard such as a 14 year old girl wanting to have a nose job to look like Lily Allen or skin bleaching or blue contact lenses.
    Example of this is a BW who had blue contacts input which nearly made her blind:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209836/Woman-travelled-Panama-operation-turn-brown-eyes-blue–blinded.html

    In regards to WM in the UK, I think they often act like BW are invisible to them. I feel this while travelling around London. They seen not to show any interest in making friendships with BW and I think this is one of the major reasons why WM/BW relationships are so low.


  545. BlackGirlUK

    I’m sorry if you feel that way, but those haven’t been my experiences at all in London, feeling ‘invisible’ that is.
    Again I have to wonder what part of London you live in. I live in a very conservative lilywhite south West London suburb, where the overwhelming majority of men around me are white.
    While I neither work nor live around black males besides those that are guards at M&S or at the tills I can’t rule out your experiences.
    I don’t know if you put being invisible down to casual interaction at the pub or winebar, workplace etc??. Or hobbies/sports that are most likely to get you into closer proximity with white males if you date interacially that is.
    As a keen biker, hiker and tennis player, I find that my social circle has plenty of interested white males.
    I wouldn’t trust any sources negating romance between BW/WM, they’re hardly representative of a whole race. I’d ignore the nay-sayers.
    I don’t live in the so called black community so I’m not privy to the growing disdain as you put it of black males towards black females. If that’s the case then that’s very sad.


  546. BlackGirl UK

    I m sorry you have had bad experiences with men (sounds like both BM & WM). Again I agree with MerriMay. I too live in a leafy suburb which is predominately white. Most of my friends are from different backgrounds and I have never felt invisible living in London. I have attracted men from all races, black white, even Asian (BW and Asian men is rare in UK).
    The WM I have attracted have ranged from high flying company executives (WM) to laid back media types and non professionals. As I stated in an earlier comment my current partner who I have been with for six years and getting married to is white!! Colour/race has never been an issue in our relationship except when we come across it from outsiders the odd time. The one before the ‘one’ was a great BM who also worked in media and if things had worked out, I would probably be making plans to marry him now.

    As I said before, I think it really depends on where you live, the circles you keep and your personality.

    When I stated that the actions of BM may influence men of other races, I meant it generally as the majority of IR are with BM/WW which people notice more. I agree that the perceptions that BM give about dating WW is often brushed under the carpet by the community while people are so ready to make issue about other races not wanting to date BW. However, both these factors as well as the impact that slavery had on the self esteem of both BM & BW would have to be considered together to create a fair argument/debate around this.

    Can’t believe I’m on here again! Goodnight/Good morning!


  547. MerriMay & Anonymous UK

    Your respones in regards to dating WM are interesting but I think it due to living in a predominately white neighbour (whereas I live in a mixed community) and cultural activities. I have many BW friends and they echo they same experiences as me and see a gulf between them and WM.


  548. My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.


  549. Saul Gervase says,
    My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.

    laromana says,
    BW are the MOST LIED ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS ON THE PLANET.

    As long as ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are willing to ATTACK the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW instead of treating us like INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN, we’ll continue to hear IGNORANT LIES like the ones posted above.


  550. My suggestion to black women who are beautiful, articulate, and interested in white men is simple: move to Canada. My boyfriend is in a metal band. He has piercings in his head that make him look akin to a modern-day young white supremacist. But yet, he is with me. A beautiful, intelligent BLACK woman. And the explanation for this, to me, is simple: he’s Canadian.

    My mother’s second husband was a white man. Scratch that, a white German-born (son of a German soldier who died during WWII) well-assimilated CANADIAN man, and as such, was not racist towards black women.

    There’s no hope for America. There is nothing you as black women can do as individuals or collectively that will prevent Americans of all races to honour and respect your dignity.

    Here’s what you CAN do: Move to Canada, or London, or Paris. Research places that are accepting of black womanhood. Learn the language. Research and practise the culture. People of all ethnicities appreciate immigrants who are respectful of their native culture. Always look your best. You’ll find your White Prince.

    Signed,

    Proud Black Canadian Female.


  551. sorry, that will compel*** Americans of all races to honour and respect your dignity…


  552. Oh, and one more thing: my boyfriend and I are hopelessly in love, and though we have big plans for our shared future, are not married nor are co-habiting (I’m against co-habitation before engagement or marriage). As such, according to census figures, we as a couple do not exist. Food for thought.


  553. Saul Gervase

    Why do you think that black woman are obsessed with bank accounts and big penises? It sounds as if YOU are the one that is insecure about those issues so you have projected that onto black women. Black women are diverse like any other group of people. And no we are not obsessed with those issues. Most of us want a man that is kind, respectful, supportive, and yes we want a man with a job, like any other woman. Why do people think that black woman are obsessed with money? Yes, we want someone who WORKS, white women are no different. Do you think white women want to do all the work while their men do nothing and sit at home? Of course not. So stop talking alot of nonsense. What is up with people and all this hatred? Spread peace and love. Seriously


  554. 20something

    I am beginning to think you may have a point. American men have some serious problems. They want to cast all this hatred on black women, when in fact, they are the ones who are insecure. I have a kind, confident, supportive man. I am sooo happy. I don’t want an insecure man, black or white. I am beginning to think that American men have the most fragile egos. Thank God for strong men, black or white.


  555. Wanted

    Kind, understanding, strong, intelligent, non-racist, nonsexist, spiritual, forgiving, nonegotistical, supportive, hardworking men.

    Other men need not apply.


  556. TO MIKE

    MIKE, YOUR GRAMMAR IS ATROCIOUS AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF PROPER SOURCES AND RESEARCH MATERIALS THAT CONSTITUTE “FACT” (IE NOT OPINIONS SPOUTED ON YOUTUBE, THE LIKES OF WHICH MY SIX YEAR OLD NEPHEW COULD POST IF ALLOWED) IS DISTURBING.

    I HAVE BEEN LAUGHING OUT LOUD WHILE SKIMMING THESE COMMENTS, SPECIFICALLY THE FACT THAT YOU ARE SO RECKLESSLY USING, OR MISUSING SHOULD I SAY, THE WORD INTELLIGENCE, BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CLEARLY HAVE SUCH A TENUOUS GRASP ON.

    THERE IS SO MUCH TO SAY..WHERE TO BEGIN?

    -YOU THINK OPINIONS POSTED ON THE INTERNET ARE “FACTS” THAT SOMEHOW DISPUTE OTHER PEOPLE’S OPINIONS ON THIS SITE.

    -You cannot identify self-hated, implicit in the idea that some train wreck of a black girl on youtube would suggest WE need to get our act together so white men will date us, as if that is something WE should even aspire to, instead of white men coveting us. Last I checked dating a white man is not a step to the path of Enlightenment, a cure for cancer or HIV, or any number of things I might hope to accomplish in my lifetime. But you, in your transparent yet snuggly and warm blanket of racism, strongly believe that any black person who speaks ill of her own race has simply seen the light. It is an affirmation of your glorious white superiority. Interesting how logic can be twisted so idiotically, and yet so conveniently.

    – You have not attempted to provide yourself with a cultural context for the Jamaican girl on youtube criticizing black Americans. Hmmmm whenever someone from a DIFFERENT COUNTRY speaks negatively on AN ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP, might we take it with a grain of salt? Or do the vast shades of brown encompassed by Jamaicans and Americans mean that one can ACCURATELY and WITH AUTHORITY MAKE JUDGMENTS ABOUT THE OTHER’S CULTURE? In this instance, I am using a rhetorical device called sarcasm. The answer is no, but I am providing it to you anyway free of charge.

    Print my comment off and do some highlighting, I know it’s going to take a while to decipher advanced sentence construction, imbued with some actual thinking. Ouch! Potent stuff.


  557. oh yeah, and CONFIDENCE IS IMPORTANT.


  558. Saul Gervase says,
    My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.”

    laromana says,
    Spoken like a typical IGNORANT, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER.
    This comment is more evidence of how BW are the most LIED about HUMAN BEINGS on the planet. These RACIST ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES need to be DESTROYED once and for all and the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW NEEDS to be RESPECTED by EVERYONE.


  559. Not wanting black children does not have to do with believing that one race is superior to another. Which is what racism means.


  560. laramona why get upset, people with that mindset are doing us a favor, its best they stay away from black women…


  561. The attitude stereotype about black women is really getting tired…can’t they come up with something else for a change….

    In terms of white men dating bw. I’m kinda getting sick of people using white men as the criteria for what is deemed attractive. WHo gives a d*mn whether white men are dating more bw or not. Really…who cares. White men are not the end all be all in terms of what is attractive and what is not.

    I’m just sick of people acting like white men’s opinions matter so much, who cares about what they think…really. They’re not that special, they’re men like anyone else and if it takes a white man this damn long to realize that bw are women and human beings first and foremost just everyone else, why would you want that wm?

    Why should have to wait for ignorant wm to wake up and realize that…*GASP* bw are women too, so therefore they can date us too…I’m sick of it, who cares what white men think

    and also wb need to stop waiting for mainstream (read western media) to portray bw in a fair and good light. SCREW THEM, LET’S MAKE OUR OWN DAMN MEDIA and we’ll dominate that on our own. They can keep their whitewashed media, we’ll make our own.


  562. I’m not against interracial relationships. I’ve been with white guys before. But, I’m just going to say this, black men and black women have built a beautiful culture together on a worldwide level. Just looking at black american culture. Gospel, spirituals, soul music, hip hop, Jazz, rock n roll, doo wop, motown, lindy hop. A lot of stuff. Honestly, even though I am open to non-black men, as I look at the individual. If a man is nice to me, I’ll give him a chance, but overall I still prefer bm and that’s mainly because of the culture we’ve built as a people.

    It gets annoying when people act like the opinion of wm/ww is somehow more substantial than that of bp. Like that stupid cover controversy for that “New Hollywood Magazine…” Who the hell cares if it was all white, take that as a hint that bp need to start putting their own images in their own magazines. Stop BEGGING to be accepted by whites. They are always going to uplift their own culture first and foremost and the sooner blacks realize this and start to do the same the better off we’ll all be..

    So let’s get control back over our buisness and magazines and newspapers and start putting our own positive images up, then it won’t matter what white people think about bw…


  563. on Mon 8 Feb 2010 at 06:02:46 Leaveumthinking

    @Peanut

    In terms of white men dating bw. I’m kinda getting sick of people using white men as the criteria for what is deemed attractive. WHo gives a d*mn whether white men are dating more bw or not. Really…who cares. White men are not the end all be all in terms of what is attractive and what is not.

    I’m just sick of people acting like white men’s opinions matter so much, who cares about what they think…really. They’re not that special, they’re men like anyone else and if it takes a white man this damn long to realize that bw are women and human beings first and foremost just everyone else, why would you want that wm?

    God bless you child!!! That is what I’ve been trying to say.You took the words right out of my mouth. I mean who cares about white guys? Really…who cares? They are not the only men on the planet.

    Stop BEGGING to be accepted by whites.

    I agree. This is getting beyond embarassing.


  564. peanut says,
    laramona why get upset, people with that mindset are doing us a favor, its best they stay away from black women…

    laromana says,
    It’s necessary to CONFRONT/CONDEMN ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE regardless of who it comes from.

    Also, it’s important to CONFRONT/CONDEMN men of ANY RACE who don’t respect the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW and PRAISE men of ANY RACE who UPLIFT/HONOR the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.


  565. I agree 101%.

    What exactly is so great about white guys again?….

    If they don’t like black women, fine! Get over it and move on to other men. Honestly, it’s so embarrassing seeing all these questions asking “Do white guys like black girls” or “Why don’t white guys like black girls” or some other deviation of sorts. Why do you freaking care? On one hand, i understand because they are the majority in any Western country, so it’s hard not to care about the opinion of the majority when they are everywhere you go, but on the other hand, it still is so pathetic and desperate. Like all these blogs by black women that get so happy when all these random white celebrity men date black women. Ugh, so sad.


  566. thank you melanie and leaveumthinking,
    I can understand that some bw may feel hurt that mainstream (read:white) society doesn’t really include black women’s beauty in terms of mass appeal, but why beg for attention. we know we’re attractive just as attractive as anyone else so who cares what white men think really? Deep down inside other people know we’re attractive too. If we weren’t they wouldn’t bother harassing bw as a group more than anyone else.

    That is why I wanted abagond to do a post on why more black women dont’ choose white men. Honestly, I’ve turned down white men before as well as other non-bm just because we didn’t click. These posts make it sound like bw are so desperate to get/lay up with white men and that’s really not even the case. It’s about respect more than anything. I don’t care if wm find bw physically appealing or not, but they WILL respect me regardless and they WILL respect my sisters regardless. That’s all that matters.


  567. “I left out any account of what black women think of the whole thing! When I found out that only one white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, it seemed like a straightforward case of white racism. But then some black female commenters said that the ugly history that black women have had with white men in America – all the rapes back in slave days – is in the back of their minds and that works against such relationships. And, even apart from that, the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites.”

    I’ll give you the real reason why SOME black women prefer not to date SOME white men…

    1. In my experience, it’s difficult for many wm to see bw as individuals, even when they prefer to date bw.

    example: Wm states that he prefers to date bw because he likes the way they dance. Thus, he expects the bw he dates to all be able to dance. It’s not a negative stereotype, but a stereotype nonetheless and that means he still can’t really see bw as individuals.

    2. Some wp tend to view the atttractive, classy and intelligent bw they encounter as exceptions and exempt from being ” regular black” by virtue of the fact that they don’t conform to neg. black female stereotypes.

    ex:being called white girl in a black girls body/ chocolate-dipped white girl

    3. Some wp forget that you’re black and will say stuff without thinking infront of you. too many example to recount.

    4. Referring to bp who don’t conform to mainstream (white society’s) expectations as “ghetto.”

    5. Attributing bad behavior on the part of the individual as a black attribute. Or racializing behavior that has nothing to do with race.

    Those are just a few instances of things that interfere with relationships between bw/wm. I find in my experience that there is always going to be that awkward moment, where you realize how our two cultures have really been created in opposition to eachother. Where he sees things from his perspective culture, I always seem to be on the opposite end of my perspective culture.

    How can you expect two groups whose history has positioned their cultures in opposition to one another to get along well enough to the point that there would be massive outpouring of marriages/relationship between the respective cultures?

    White American culture was set up to be the adversary of black american culture. So its understandable that the two groups would have issues interacting. The only reason bw/wm interacted more in the past (sexually anyway) was because it was forced and bp had no power or choice in the matter.


  568. Peanut:

    You said you had ten reasons. If you send me all ten then I can make it into a post.


  569. Sometimes I wonder why this thread has so many posts, I actually haven’t read all the comments here only some close to the end but if people are seriously begging I feel they need to step and maybe find another blog or website becuase it is pathetic.

    that is all


  570. oh okay i will then


  571. Yup.
    BW who cry for the attention of WM are equally as pathetic as the BW who cry “nothin’ but a BM for me!’
    ‘ i love my black brothas, come home”….it’s like chill, BM are the ones doing the most irr between BW and BM.
    They’re the ones saying things such as ‘ i don’t do dark butts’ and ‘red bone’ and things like that, they’re the ones seeking anything BUT BW.
    Sorry, i know it’s hard to hear the cold truth but facts are facts, more and more BM are starting to date OUT, meaning, NOT BW.

    Even if ALL BM decided to marry ALL BW, there would STILL be BW unmarried, so it DOES make sense for a BW to widen her dating pool, ALOT of sense.

    and the BW i see with WM/or other NON BM, do NOT have self hating issues, infact, they seem a hell of a lot happier than the people here who seem to have aggression problems.
    just CHILL – you don’t want to date white men? – DON*T.
    Most of us who are dating WM aren’t dating the racist rednecks who HATE BW.
    just STOP with that B.S already!


  572. 6. Some wm think they’re doing bw a favor by dating and or mating them. Since bw are perceived supposedly as being on the bottom of the beauty hierarchy.
    (ex: this is evident in the older white males who tend to approach young, young bw after the wm has already married, procreated white children and divorced) Just by virtue of their whiteness, I guess that makes them compatible with a bw who is younger than their youngest child….not!

    7. Some wm who date bw think they’re officially an authority/ expert on black people overall by virtue of the fact that their gf/wife is black.

    8. Some wm expect you to mindlessly agree with them about issues pertaining to politics/race. When you disagree you are seen as combative or you hurt their feelings/alienate them. (ex: Wm makes comment about affirmative action being reverse racism. You respond by recounting the inequities in the schooling system, which favor whites. You mention the “legacy clause” as a form of affirmative action that overwhelmingly benefits wp.) You are polite and make sure to speak gently when you discuss this, he thinks you’re being combative/ militant.

    9. Some wm feel as if its their job to “save” the black woman from the “wretchedness” of the black community. (The Bodyguard Complex)

    10. My favorite, my absolute favorite…the segment of white men who date bw as a way to rationalize away their own racism… Some wm think that because they date and or end up with a bw that they’re exempt from racist thoughts.
    Hence the classic phrase ” I’m not racist, I dated a black girl in High School.”

    **These are my opinions, they are based off my personal experiences. I am in no way saying all white men think this way. I am not saying interracial dating is wrong. I am not saying white men are evil. So don’t come at me with any crazy comments about being anti-white male please.If this doesn’t apply to you, then leave it alone.***


  573. *oh and mostly all that stuff can be applied to white women. Especially # 10. Can’t tell you how many ww are racist and date bm…* Make sure you note that


  574. White men get jealous when we date black men. As if black men are less than them. I prefer Black men and I won’t dat white men


  575. ***I also want to add to that little post that I do not condemn wm who have these thoughts. I believe in educating them. You can’t really help that you’re a product of your enviorment. White american culture has a history of brainwashing both blacks and whites to believe certains notions and stereotypes. If you’re immersed in that type of mindset constantly whether you realize it or not, it WILL take an effect on your perception. That is why I believe in understanding and exchange of view points. That is the only way that you can make progress***

    Overall, if you’re a bw who prefers to date wm or other non-bm, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you’re a bw who prefers bm, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you don’t care, more power to you. Thats my take on it.


  576. you want me to email it to you abagond?


  577. Peanut:

    I will email it to you.


  578. Lynette, quit projecting, I have never had a bad experience with a black man because i have never dated one, now you do the math, genuis.

    and just because YOU are married to a BM and have been for 15 years doesn’t mean anything.
    there are MORE BW in America than BM, again, YOU do the math.
    gate keepers like you are pathetic, BM can protect themselves, they don’t need you to defend them. Men are MEN.
    Maybe you should focus on protecting and advicing your fellow BLACK WOMEN for once, and tell them what is REALLY going on.
    Numbers don’t lie.


  579. on Mon 8 Feb 2010 at 17:51:45 mynameismyname

    Tell ‘em, Lynette!


  580. @Peanut
    I agree completely, a lot of these posts do make me cringe, as if everything hinges on white men. Who cares what the heck they think. I for one couldn’t care less.
    I second your suggestion that Abagond do a post on why black women don’t date white men. Goodness I too have turned a lot of white men.
    WE DO NOT CHASE AFTER WHITE MEN!! THEY CHASE US!!


  581. Peanut:

    I just emailed you the draft of the post. Please read it over and make whatever corrections you want. If you keep it between 480 and 500 words it will go straight up when I get it back.


  582. Aw, snap that’s gonna be a good post. Can’t wait to see the comments on that one. *Kudos to Peanut*


  583. you’re right…black American women seem to chase black men a lot though…is that why black men in larger number are dating irr?


  584. peanut says,
    Overall, if you’re a bw who prefers to date wm or other non-bm, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you’re a bw who prefers bm, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you don’t care, more power to you. Thats my take on it.

    laromana says,
    Excellent points. RESPECT for BW REGARDLESS of the RACE of man they choose, should be a NON-NEGOTIABLE requirement.
    Teaching men of ALL RACES how to be more RESPECTFUL of the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW in an ANTI-BW/RACIST culture is a MAJOR reason that a post like this one (and similar ones on abagond’s blog) are necessary.


  585. good post la reyna. I am still waiting for ABC to tell white men to start dating bw in massive numbers. Why is it always bw need to start dating white men. That’s ridiculous, they’re the majority in the country, why don’t they tell white men that?? It’s insulting.

    In case some o yall didn’t know there was Jim Crow decorem law that stated blacks weren’t allowed to kiss/show affection with other blacks in public. Look it up. I think it speaks volumes that it offended some whites to see blacks showing affection to one another. I still think that is relevant today. They still have issues showing bp in stable, affectionate relationships.


  586. Peanut:

    The post is up:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/why-some-black-women-prefer-not-to-date-some-white-men/

    If there are any corrections you need let me know.


  587. Peanut stated in her post:

    “In case some o yall didn’t know there was Jim Crow decorem law that stated blacks weren’t allowed to kiss/show affection with other blacks in public. Look it up. I think it speaks volumes that it offended some whites to see blacks showing affection to one another. I still think that is relevant today. They still have issues showing bp in stable, affectionate relationships.”

    That’s so true and guess what, whites, whether liberal or conservative, have a big fat problem with the Obamas showing their love to the world. It is also the reason why Hollywood is resistant to show humanity of Black couples in their range and humanness because that would force whites to consider the humanity and range of Black folk worldwide.

    La Reyna


  588. La Reyna:

    Excellent post. These things are not said enough. Thanks for the link.


  589. Abagond,

    You’re welcome. Please feel free to comment on my blog.

    La Reyna


  590. nice post thanks , i made some spelling errors though


  591. i sent u a pic abagond it has a white man/bw in it. if u like it u can post if not the one you have is great


  592. I saw that too but it is a picture of Aretha Franklin and record producer Jerry Wexler. As far as I know their relationship was strictly professional.


  593. that is aretha…


  594. Good, correct post out there. Seems like everything is false, specially from the major news corperations with the big slants to the left or right. Did you see last nights Late Late Show? haha, that was hilarious! Sorry, I’m rambling along again. Have a Great day!


  595. hey i am australian and i am white, i have nothing to do with your racist views. you guys are really stupid arn’t you, you keep saying theres eqaulity though a black person can say ” you white guys” but white americans get absolutely slaughtered if they say “you black guys”. i mean come on… seriously and im not picking sides because the kkk is really fucked up.

    you guys are complaining about something that happened along time ago, would your black grandperants be proud of you if you still, after you have got the freedom that they earnt FOR YOU! to still be complaining.. you guys have got all these rights, so just be happy.

    so my dad was born in england my mums grandperants were convicts for only nickingg a bit of bread! but i love my country love black white yellow and brown!. see its all the same its happened to pretty much all races around the world expecially whites aswell along time ago, BUT IT STILL HAPENNED! but do we still hold a fucking anouying grudge like both of your races do? NO, so grow up and take in and live the life HAPPILLY like you ancestors wanted you too!

    because this really has to stop!


  596. I dated “black” women, but the mentality is mostly to rob me out of my cash and then steal all the money in my bank account… Or they try to borrow a big amount from me… No, thank you.


  597. *sighs* at John


  598. @freo:

    This coming from a man whose country fairly recently let non-whites immigrate there, who recently apologized to the Aborigines for stealing their children, the list is long as to their dealings with racialized peoples.

    @ John:

    The ‘black’ women you dated are probably glad to have seen the back of you.


  599. on Mon 15 Feb 2010 at 05:23:36 Leaveumthinking

    @ John:

    The ‘black’ women you dated are probably glad to have seen the back of you.

    LOL


  600. You know what, I think it is time we as Black women stop responding to every ignorant comment that some person, who is only trying to get a rise out of you, makes. Ignore these people and rise above it all. You are too good to let someone bring you down to their level. Pray for the people who clearly have problems and move on to another topic, please.


  601. I have read about 30 posts and the more I read, the more upset I get. It is very disheartening that many people still think this way about black women and people in general.

    To Mike and Robert Lindsay, I am sorry that your experiences with Black women have been so negative. I assure you that in every race there are good and bad people. What makes a stereotype is when a small percentage of people are used as the majority. If you were to look at me you would probably have some preconceived notions about me. People in my race do this as well. I am a young woman who grew up in some pretty rough streets in Brooklyn, NY. Many people will then assume that I am “Ghetto”. I believe that “ghetto” is a state of mind. I consider myself hood or street smart. I grew up in the ghetto or a low socioeconomic area but I didn’t let the negativity around me consume me like many black people do, like the ones you speak of have. I was fortunate that I had a mother who saw better than what was seen in our neighborhood and knew that life wasn’t going to be easy but was determined to show me that black people don’t all live like this. She made sure that I had the resources to make a better life for myself.

    We are all guilty of being racist or stereotypical at least some of the time. The truth is that racism has stained our history and quite frankly it will probably never go away on every level. This might be why many black women might appear to be angry or aggressive. Black women have always had to be strong for survival reasons and that is very apparent in the attitudes of black women today. We just need to educate ourselves about our history as well as other races. We need to open our minds and maybe the next time we are around someone of another race we and see them as human first and then their race.

    A Proud Black Woman


  602. Great post, nikki67


  603. My earlier post if for any person for anyone who feels negatively about black people. It’s sad because so few people actually behave in the manner these misunderstood people speak of.


  604. “To Mike and Robert Lindsay, I am sorry that your experiences with Black women have been so negative. ”

    “The same Black women who scream that we White guys are the Greatest Rapists That Ever Lived also fume that we say Black women are “unrapeable”. The ultimate insult. Cognitive disconnect anyone? These same Black women fuming about the White male as the most evil creature that ever stalked the Earth openly admit that they want to marry and have kids with a White man.

    Go figure.”

    this was a quote i got off of a blog by someone called “Robert Lindsay…” the only insult is that people continue to try and change and rewrite history to make themselves feel better. then obsess about how bp obsess about them when history says the exact opposite…


  605. im a beautiful , openminded educated black woman (no ghetto trash)whose dated white men for years. yeah im atrracted to them
    Guys its simple…WHITE MEN are more RACIST than WHITE WOMEN. how many white men do you see walking hand in hand with a black woman in the street?, in contrast i see lots of white women with black men in social places all over europe. BUT its not because they dont want tthem. they are having lots of ihankie pankie with them black mamas.
    The white man wants to shag black women but wont marry them. many will even tell how the white women are ugly and sexless.
    They will dater you but they dont want to be seen in public with you, but in dark corners in clubs will lust after you,
    they will shag yu on illicite liasons but will never MARRY you. you are just his dirty little secret. most wont even introduce you to their friends.
    Theyre even date you and say racist things to you. one of then said to me “at least youre not too black….” or just use stereotypes. and always remind you of your race with stupid racial references.E.G
    “is tt true thAT BLCK MEN HAVE BIGGER…”
    “do you wash you hair/?? its so curly..”
    to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.i just wish they werbt so insecure.


  606. at johnwho says black women robbed you,
    congatulaitions to the women who robbed you you racist looser.
    maybe theyr buy back some self restpent for dating a a.hole like you. and at leasthey wre more intelligent than you if they tricked you
    youre a racist , coward bigot who can only say such racist things in the net.
    and i bet youre one of those ugly fat bold fat looser reject who goes on sex tourism and them get robbed in in thailnd ,or gets “robbed ” after picking women in bars in the third world and then complains hes been robbed!!!etc


  607. on Mon 22 Feb 2010 at 01:30:11 Leaveumthinking

    parrotalk said

    to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.

    LOL I believe you. Their insecurities must come from somewhere. White men being disappointing in the sack explains a hell of alot.


  608. parrotalk…It seems I only marry black women..twice at
    least

    “to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.”

    “LOL I believe you. Their insecurities must come from somewhere. White men being disappointing in the sack explains a hell of alot.”

    leaveumthinking and parrotalk….ooohhhweeee , dont be so mean , I better look into viagra

    yeah, its a drag when those guys make such generalisations with so little experiance


  609. @parrottalk:

    I am sure there are many men out there who would marry you or be in a good relationship with you. Stop going with losers!


  610. can someone explain to me. truly i have yet to have someone explain to me why SOME white males are so fascinated/obsessed of black male genitalia??? I want a white male to answer this. Please give me an honest answer because I have yet to figure out why…


  611. Why all the negativity in the responses? In my opinion, anyone that has a problem with a white guy dating a black girl is a racist and ignorant themselves. Everyone has the right as a human being to express themselves and if two people are attracted to each other by all means they should be together. A lot of people view it as unnatural and that is so far from the truth. Like there has to be an underlying reason for being with someone other than just loving them for who they are. I’m a white guy and I don’t see any reason why I can’t be attracted to a beautiful black woman. It’s not a feeling that’s voluntary, it’s just there the same as if I was attracted to a white woman. There are many things about a lot of white women that I loathe and find unattractive. Everything balances out in the end, people are just different and have different tastes. Life is too short to hate and be negative towards others.


  612. peanut, I cant explain it either , its probably fear and insecutity

    I think quite a few men are under the delusion that genital size makes a differance in sex, when in fact, a lot of women arnt thrilled to have to face extra large genitals in men.Sexualy insecure racists will take it to a racist leval. In fact, any one who has checked out any porn will realise that large genitals arnt just the atribute of one race.

    Its like breast size , a lot of men dont really love large breasts. Its mosty a media hype.

    I beleive when it comes to sex, people who do like certain things like large breasts or large genitals, should seek each other out


  613. @hermitte:
    i did not sya all are nasty. ive met some wonderful white guys some of whom will be friends for life.
    BUT Ive , ive figured the dodgy ones out! some of the white guys actually i suspect only want taste black punani and thyre not intested in relationship. its like its a forbidden fruit..
    As for the most racist of the white men theyd rather date the ugliest white woman than date a gorgeous black woman…
    some of the behavoir ive mentioned in my posts about fear of marriage to a BW, or being seen in public could probably be not racism buy the guys, but fear of what the racist society around them will think: friends, familly, colleagues?? yeah and thats the sort of weak coward that black women shouldnt touch..
    go for a guy who gets what he wants, is brave and stands for his rights and his beliefs, girls.

    if you love someone at some point you dont see colour any more..i know that i dont..

    lol


  614. There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black. If he does, he has a mental disability. That weird thing for dark meat. Phew! I don’t see any reason for whites to downgrade. It will only ruin families.


  615. There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black.

    My whte American family was quite happy about the deal.


  616. can someone explain to me. truly i have yet to have someone explain to me why SOME white males are so fascinated/obsessed of black male genitalia??? I want a white male to answer this. Please give me an honest answer because I have yet to figure out why…

    Fanon has a real good explanation for that in Black Skin, White Masks, Peanut, which I’m sure Abagond will eventually get around to.


  617. on Tue 23 Feb 2010 at 02:05:14 Leaveumthinking

    Jeanine said
    There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black. If he does, he has a mental disability. That weird thing for dark meat. Phew! I don’t see any reason for whites to downgrade. It will only ruin families

    This kind of comment is the reason I tell my female family members to stick to their own kind and if they must date out please pick a minority. White men look down on black women they dont even see us as fully human. I dont want my family to degrade themselves by dating a white man with a fetish for dark meat.
    If whites feel dating blacks is a downgrade then stick to dating whites.


  618. This kind of comment is the reason I tell my female family members to stick to their own kind and if they must date out please pick a minority.

    No doubt. I tell my neice to keep away from those Martians, Venusians and Vegans as well.


  619. Commenter
    “In America, we have laws like affirmative action and hate crimes as well as organizations like La Raza and the NAACP to make sure that we never, ever forget about race.

    The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.

    Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.

    People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.

    American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.”

    Response:
    I have to say comments like these are the exact reason WHY we still need organizations like NAACP and la raza. lol. Racism is just a figment on our imagination I guess? Do you know that during the Jim Crow era a good number of wp thought that things were just fine for blacks. They were blind to the fact that blacks suffered on a daily basis,despite the fact that things were clearly unequal. The whole seperate but equal facade, yeah alot of people really believed that…


  620. on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 01:58:35 notinterested

    I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. And I also agree that white men should not be with ethnic women.


  621. on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 02:05:23 notinterested

    white men to me appear to have a dishonest look to them. I guess because od what i know about them and have read about all the hell black america has gone through because of white people….all the racism against black people in america by whites….I am a black female and can not see myself with a white man . I wouldn’t want to have my nice pretty brown body next to some pale skin man….give me a handsome black man.


  622. on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 02:08:27 notinterested

    white men are the greatest rapists as far as history goes……this comment is directed at peanut


  623. abagond, where are you? I have a question about the posts…


  624. To Piggyback off Peanut,
    The reason why organizations like the NAACP and those alike are still around because the things that they fight for are still prevalent today. Even though that slavery was over 400 years ago and Jim Crows laws ended in the late 1970’s this blog still shows me that there is still a need for these organizations. It is because of ignorance and hatred for differences among the races that cause law suits and keep these high profile people in business. Yes Al Sharpton is loud and can be obnoxious but he gets the message across that there is still mistreatment of minorities groups. Every time I read this blog and some of the comments on here baffle in how ignorant people can be. Some of my closes friends are of different races and ethnicity’s than my own. We come from different socioeconomic levels and we still manage to have a lot of commonalities. I have to remember how blessed I am that I don’t have a distorted view of the world and I have learned from an early age to embrace other cultures. Growing up in NYC and having immigrant parents are part of the reason for this. I hope that by writing this I can help others to understand that even though our outward appearances might seem different we are all the same. We all bleed red, breathe oxygen and will eventually, so while on this earth i hope that we can gain a little more understanding of one another.


  625. Peanut:

    Which one?


  626. notinterested:”I wouldn’t want to have my nice pretty brown body next to some pale skin man….give me a handsome black man.

    on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 02:08:27 notinterested
    white men are the greatest rapists as far as history goes……this comment is directed at peanut”

    excuse me , notinterested, there is a dna research about north west China and Mongolia that sais 1/3rd of the population has the dna of Gengis Khan in there makeup. I think he takes the cake for rape history.

    Its funny, for me, a white man, being with a white woman ,as far as our skin color together ,almost seems redundant to me, I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.


  627. on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 14:24:27 Leaveumthinking

    I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.

    Thats just sick. Sounds like a sick dark meat fetish to me. Which is degrading and disgusting. How about caring about the person and NOT obsess over skin color contrast. SICK


  628. Actualy, Im finding the neurotic pointing of trembling fingers at any black white relationship the real degrading fetish

    actualy, its my red hair, it really goes fantastic against brown to dark brown to black…


  629. …it brings out the highlights in my hair color, a real bath of color explosion ….


  630. Actualy, Im finding the neurotic pointing of trembling fingers at any black white relationship the real degrading fetish.

    Hear, hear!

    Christ, the hypocrisy expressed on this board sometimes is unbelieveable.

    Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?

    Now here you come along and say you LIKE the contrast, it makes you feel goos… and you’re a racist screwball.

    I mean, I can agree that there’s a bit of fetishism going on there, perhaps, but that’s normal in any relationship. Mentioning that you LIKE this contrast is hardly a “fetish”.

    I also wonder what leaveumthinking’s track record is with relationships. 23 years, huh? Somebody’s doing something right, I’d say.


  631. BTW, while I have no particular fetish for any one skin color, I DO think my wife’s is very, very pretty and I do think the contrast between us is also pretty.

    And I’ll go one more further: after 10 years of living here in Rio, I get nervous when I go to SP: far too many white people there. I feel much more comfortable here in Rio.


  632. I agree that irony, hypocrisy and double standards are tough to swallow around here, but the positive thing is the constructive dialogue.

    It is funny how people classify their preferences in who they choose to date. I was actuallly engaged to a blue eyed blond but things did not work out. I am simply attracted to beautiful women, regardless of race or ethnic background.

    Living in Brazil, passing as Brazilian (even passed as bi-racial in the U.S. South, Puerto Rican in the North -despite being “white”), I eventually met my wife and married her due to cultural similarities. I say cultural similarities because Brazil is a part of my culture and when living in Brazil I was simply Brazilian. This is something my first fiance never understood.

    A funny note: I remember as a teenager in Brazil that I was talking to a girl trying to get her to go out with me. We talked forever and somehow the topic came up and I told her I was actually American. She told me I was lying and just a Safado (Player for translation). She never believed me and actually left because she felt insulted that I would try to lie to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! crazy, right?


  633. Thad,

    Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?

    Now here you come along and say you LIKE the contrast, it makes you feel goos… and you’re a racist screwball.

    Leaveumthinking didn’t say anything about B.R. being racist. You’re putting words in her mouth.


  634. on Thu 25 Feb 2010 at 00:21:12 Leaveumthinking

    Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?

    You are wrong as usual. Please point out where I used the word racist to describe Mayer. Dont put words in my mouth. I simply challenged the question that was asked about black women throwing themselves at him. I did call him disrespectful because he did disrespect Kerry Washington and used the N word. I could care less about him liking black women or not.

    I also wonder what leaveumthinking’s track record is with relationships

    Thats really none of your buisness. For me to be with someone for 23 years I would have to get married at 7 years old.

    @BR

    You are free to say whatever you wish about your wife. I dont have a problem with IR relationship as long as it is not for the wrong reasons for example self hate or fetishizing. Your comment about skin contrast came across as a skin color fetish.


  635. on Thu 25 Feb 2010 at 00:47:54 Leaveumthinking

    BR
    But I regect out right anyone implying that me finding making love with a black woman , enjoying the color contrast , that yes , its a turn on, is some kind of fetish

    That is being uptight about sex,for sure uptight about things I like about sex

    BTW This is not a pornographic blog no one wants to hear about your sex life.


  636. So what do we do , Natasha? Turn out the lights and dont look at each others skin color?Can you honestly tell me that you dont notice the physical differances , just as men and women , and then other physical atributes that turn you on including skin color?

    Its funny to me when people say they dont see skin color in a mate. If they see it in their mate of the same color, they are noticing that, if they have an interracial partner they see it in that.

    leaveumthinking, I apreciete your giving me a pass on my wife, but i would be a liar if i said I never had a one night stand with a blackwoman, and other women of differant races.

    I have had a big life. When I have broken up with a woman, because I dont want to mislead another woman right away when I know I cant give to her properly ,Ill go consult a profesional woman. Ive gone through going to Asian women sometimes, sometimes to black women and sometimes to white woman.And each time I know its to satisfy my desire for what that one looked like at that time.And please, I want to emphasise I do that when I cant commit emotionaly to a woman and I dont want to be a man in a woman’s life who hurts them and lets them down.

    Yes, I tried to tell you all that I was raised in a social envirnment that was black, Im not saying I went through discrimination like black people, I said I socialised and I learned how much I love black women and how much I can be attracted to them. Most woman I have had a realtionship with have been black.I am socialy and culturaly drawn to them. But I have dealt with various races of women.And I love my background and the way I have lived my life. No psychiatrist could pursuade me I have a problem. MY life has been blessed with my choices and passions and desires.


  637. B.R., of course I notice skin color. That does not mean I fixate on skin color, however.


  638. How can you have sex and not objectify physical atributes of your parnter?


  639. B.R., easily, very easily. Or at least it would be, if you were with them for who they were rather than something they possess.


  640. natasha, by the fact you are with your SO and over a period of time, you are comfortable with them , then you are fixating on physical atributes of them.

    You just dont know it because you are so comfortable with them.

    Being attracted to people because of thier physical atrubutes is normal and healthy, then we hope we can get into a relationship with them and find out who they are and if they accept you for who you are.

    But you cant negate the physical attractions as a powerful force in being attracted in the first place.

    Ill tell you another thing, I have been in many realationships with women and they have gone into interests i have and then out, changed philosophies, stopped having the same interests, and , what I can tell you, the relationships that have lasted the longest have had a deep fundimental physical attraction and passion that is the main factor that lasts when other things diminish.

    I deal in reality not ideals about what relationships are supposed to be.

    And I am against the grain, definitly in American society, and I love who I am.

    All these so called fetish things are suposed to be bad if they keep hurting you , and, besides the everyday ups and downs and disapointments that life has dished up , I am not a hurting man with women, I love women.


  641. …which doesnt mean I havent been hurt by women, oh boy have i been hurt, but I am not a hurting man and hater of women, I love women, and that is the differance


  642. skin color is not something you posess, its not like a material posescion, its part of what you are, like your hair color , or size ,or shape.Its only one part , but it is what you are.

    And, while I am like you in that I want my mate to accept me for who I am inside as well as I really want her to be attracted to me also ( dont you want that at all , natasha, dont you want your mate to think your physical atributes , exactly who you look at in the mirror is something he is attracted to?), how do you explain one night stands?

    Isnt there also room for people to have consenting sex with a person who might not be the ideal mate ?Based on physical attractions?

    I mean, I know life has a lot of angles out here besides ideal “we all just look for what is inside our partner”

    Life is deep and mysterious


  643. …Natasha, I have to cut out, Ill be happy to get back to you or anyone else on here tomorow about this supject if they leave a post…


  644. natasha, by the fact you are with your SO and over a period of time, you are comfortable with them , then you are fixating on physical atributes of them.

    Lol, no. Maybe you’re misunderstanding what is meant by the word fetish… or fixate.

    Being attracted to people because of thier physical atrubutes is normal and healthy, then we hope we can get into a relationship with them and find out who they are and if they accept you for who you are.

    Okay, you are definitely misunderstanding.

    One can be physically attracted to a person, without fetishizing them. You can like dark skin, but focusing only or primarily on that aspect, or having that be the main reason for being with the person, is a fetish. In your comments here and elsewhere, you’ve made reference to dark skin numerous times in your reasons why you are interested in black women. In essence, you are making it not about black women as people, but about their skin tone. Most black women will be put off by this. It shouldn’t be hard to understand why.


  645. You are wrong as usual. Please point out where I used the word racist to describe Mayer.

    OK, fine. It wasn’t you then. But I think we can say that the community here, at large, reacted to it in that way.

    Or do you disagree?

    Here’s the deal: B.R. says he loves the color of his wife’s skin. If he were to say he was BLACK, everyone would pat him on the back and say what a good man he is, correct?

    And yet because he says he’s WHITE, well my god he must be some sort of racist fetishist!

    We have Hei and Notinterested saying things like “I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. And I also agree that white men should not be with ethnic women.”

    Not a word out of anyone’s mouth about how awful this is. And yet if Notinterested had simply changed “white” for “black” in that phrase… well my God! Racist troll! Ignorant a$$hole!

    Please, people.


  646. natasha, free pshycological analysis is worth half the price.

    You see, I think if I was married to my black wife and thinking about sex with asian girls or white girls, that would be a problem

    As long as Ive been married to her , I have every right to say how much I love to see my white skin next to her brown skin.

    People who dont like it here…..just dont like it, their petty analysis means absolutly nothing to me….I laugh


  647. B.R. that’s right, you can do what you want and say what you want. And others can comment on it, if you choose to share it here.


  648. Others can comment on it as long as no one goes “BAAAAAAW! S/he’s being disrespectful to me.”

    Which so far, I’ve never seen B.R. do.

    If B.R. were to flip race around, saying that he was black, neither you nor anyone else here would accuse him of fetishism.

    But let’s say he accused you of being a sick fetishist, describing your relationship to your husband in exactly the SAME words you used to describe his to his wife.

    My guess is that you or someone else would be the first person to go wail to Abagond that a nasty racist was being impolite to you.ç

    I’m all for “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out”, Natasha. I’d just like to see that rule evenly applied.

    As you’ll note, I’ve never called for anyone’s censorship here.

    I doubt that B.R. has either.


  649. “As you’ll note, I’ve never called for anyone’s censorship here”

    right Thad, I guess we do have some things we agree on ahhhh

    Natasha, I welcome the diolougue, why do you think I come in here?


  650. Natasha, just because I say it doesnt mean anything if people call my opinions a fetish doesnt mean I dont apreciete reading what people are saying.

    It gives me great insight into their mindset.

    It tells me a lot where some people are at about these subjects and reinforces many desicians Ive made in my life and where I choose to live and raise my kid.

    And I also see people who do have more casual and loose atitudes about interracial relationships and that gives me great hope in Americas future that this racial devide slowly might close up as we go along here in our tragectory forward as Americans. Because there is a racial devide as big as a 10 lane mac truck highway and , its not the highest leval we can have for racial interaction.


  651. I come in here and share things about my experiances to keep this diolougue going. I know Im putting it up on a chopping block , but, I came in here to address these issues directly with people who say things like I could have a ” jungle fever degrading fetish , better call Fanon”.

    I dont love putting on any internet chat room blogs ,details about my personal life, but this subject is extremly important and worth the risks to diolougue about it


  652. Thad,

    But let’s say he accused you of being a sick fetishist, describing your relationship to your husband in exactly the SAME words you used to describe his to his wife.

    My guess is that you or someone else would be the first person to go wail to Abagond that a nasty racist was being impolite to you.

    I’m all for “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out”, Natasha. I’d just like to see that rule evenly applied.

    I’m beginning to think you have some difficulty differentiating commenters. Or you are purposely misrepresenting people.

    I’ve never complained about anything to Abagond. And why you are assuming I ever would, I have no idea. So the above quoted comment is baseless.


  653. I don’t think B.R has a sick fetish for loving the contrast of his wife’s brown skin and his own white skin! There seems to be a certain standard or code words that unsuspecting, even well meaning white men may say that relegates them to the racist fetish loser side.
    If he was leaving a trail of black women lovers picked on their skin color alone then I’d agree.
    I believe he said he’d dated all races, but he married, ie committed and took vows with and settled down with a black woman. The common gripe of that white men use women for sex and don’t commit wouldn’t apply to this particular person.
    Am not sure what the problem here is exactly.


  654. B.R., IMO, I don’t think you have a fetish. I think the phrase “my white skin against her black skin”, may turn some people off.


  655. You hit the nail on the head, merimay

    I dont have a trail of black woman that I used just for sex. Ive had many relationships with black women , more than white women, but, I did mention my earlyest social experiances with women was in the black American social experiance based on having mostly black male freinds.That absolutly made me have an afinity culturaly and attraction for black women.Yes I like how you put that I am comfortable in my skin and my partners have always been comfortable in theirs.Its funny, race was the most unimportant thing extremly fast in any of the relationships I have had with black women, but, always great awarness of racism and discrimination in society and I have always been supportave of that with the woman Ive been with.

    I did alude to some breif even one night stands that didnt work out based on both of the parties involved and even profesional visits based on broken relationships, that was with all the races also. Just typical trying to find ourselves and who we are sexualy growing up.I am very liberal when it comes to things like legal prostitution and a failed war on drugs so I may be at odds with other people on those issues also.

    I did live with a white woman in New York for 5 years, and, she had a great apartment, so, talk about “possesions”, natasha, there is a case where hooking up with a woman with a great apartment was certainly one of the benifits that I enjoyed very much, but, hopefully not the reason I got involved (yeah right). Great apartments in New York are very deep bargaining chips in relationships….ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

    Its funny, people talk about gays knowing they were gay at a very young age. I knew I was attracted to black women at a very young age also, but not just skin color but cultural attraction also. I dont find an affinity with dark peoples over in New Guieny (sp), in the pacific for example, and it just so happens that the women I married were profesional Afro diasporic dancers (the first wife being an actress and singer also ,but I fell in love watching her do Cathurine Dunham technique).

    And , I beleive we all have personal ideas of who we are and what we are attracted to, I just dont totaly understand this “I dont see color at all , its just what we see inside…”

    What are we walking around, a bunch of spongebobs?


  656. ok island girl, your comment came in as I was writing.

    Maybe I do want to get this on the table and discuss it with you all. And have not held back in phrases and feelings I have

    As I have said, I have no anger of bad feelings at anyone for anything they have said, I came in here to participate in this type of discusion and get my experiances on the table as an example of where Im coming from.

    When I say I dont care what someone sais, it is not meant to dismiss them as much to say I am living my life and this way of thinking about me doesnt affect me. I fully support anyone having their own veiws about what they like and dont like.

    I respect this discusion a lot…


  657. oh, ok. I have noticed that a lot of white men like darker skinned black women. Your explantion of the contrast may explain that.


  658. This conversation certainly has me thinking – very deeply I might add. (Call this exercise for the biggest muscle most people tend to ignore: The brain!) lol…..

    I’ve shared bit of my own personal life here, and like B.R, I participate with personal experiences to not only enlighten others but also be enlightened. For example, I’ve been in relationships with women from all backgrounds. (within the United States, South America and Europe) Traveled extensively throughout my life… Country girls, City girls – you name it. I started reflecting on some of the girls I was attracted to the most, and I find curly hair is a common denominator. I never really thought about that until I read this thread. I had the sudden realization that perhaps I was most attracted to women that were a reflection of myself: Although I am white, most of my life I have been perceived as “other than white”, most likely due to the fact that I had “Black Hair” (as so many stereotypically refer). For this reason I feel I have always been MORE interested in the women I’ve dated that had curly hair. I’m sure it is more complex than that, but probably a factor.

    Peace & Love to everyone…


  659. I think another issue is the differences in attractions between men and women. Men are visual. So, it makes sense to me that physical attributes would be very important to them. I hope any man would be turned on by the sight of his wife, but the fact that the contrasting skin tones adds a heightened level of excitement for BR doesn’t strike me as strange.

    Women are only attracted to the appearance of a man for a moment. We are far more interested in everything else – those things that make him a trustworthy and stable partner. So, of course, we want our physical appearance to not be one of the most important things. In a man’s world, of course compatiblilty is important but the physical is at the top of the list of areas in which he will look for compatibility.


  660. on Thu 25 Feb 2010 at 19:46:08 Leaveumthinking

    First of all I say what I want when I want. If you cant handle my comments skip over them. Thats what I do to many of your long drawn out comments where you say a bunch of nothing. Second if I want to give my opinion on a comment what can you do about it. Not a damn thing.

    OK, fine. It wasn’t you then. But I think we can say that the community here, at large, reacted to it in that way.
    Or do you disagree?

    I cant speak for the “community” but I think most commenters could care less if Mayer dated black women or not. If a commenter called him a racist it was probaly because of his use of the N and word and referred to his body part as a white supremacist.

    Here’s the deal: B.R. says he loves the color of his wife’s skin. If he were to say he was BLACK, everyone would pat him on the back and say what a good man he is, correct?

    If BR would have simply said he love the color of his wifes skin I would not have made the comment that I made.

    This was his comment.I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.

    In his comment he never said wife or SO which to me meant he like dark skin color contrast in general. In fact BR have talked about his love of darkskin, sensuality, black women, and sex quite often. Which lead me to think he might have a fetish. And yes I believe some fetishes are sick.

    However later he stated that he was referring to his wife of 23 years. Which changes my opinion of the comment. Thats is WIFE he is suppose to love her including her skin. I also think its wonderful that BR and his wife have been married for so long.

    And yet because he says he’s WHITE, well my god he must be some sort of racist fetishist!

    When did I call BR a racist. Again stop putting words in my mouth.

    We have Hei and Notinterested saying things like “I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. ”
    Not a word out of anyone’s mouth about how awful this is.

    If they dont like white men for whatever reason thats their business. Not every black woman is gonna like white men. Hell many white men have no shame when voicing their disgust and hatred for black women.


  661. on Thu 25 Feb 2010 at 19:48:11 Leaveumthinking

    My comment above is for Thad


  662. Well…I am very white and bald and pasty. But women are women first, then the other issues of race, class, etc come in after that. Saying that, before I screw up and say the wrong thing, I have met black women I would have loved to date and get to know better, but just like with white women, I am inept! Whether black, white, etc…I am just not cool!


  663. Leaveumthinking, I would never skip over your comments, I got to reach down deep to solidify anything I will say to you.

    And one thing I want to clarify,I would never lie to you and make it think that only my wife is the reason I am attracted to women of color. I wont just hide behind her, I have mentioned its a cultural , social total background and how I was raised that is part of my makeup also.

    I would never think my sexual mores and life Ive lived would stand up to the scrutiny of people looking for high examples. I am a life survivor and here now living my life as only I know how.

    And , I think I wanted the oportunity to addresss exactly what some people have said, it is part ot the reason to be on here discussing this with each other.Lets lay it out on the table for each other to see, not hide it away. No one is going to change each other in these discusions, but we will have a chance to express exactly how we feel…if we want to.

    So part of what I have to say is that, I beleive in a mixed culture.That is part of my makeup and lifestyle. Races mixing together with out judgement of each others motives or desires.Yes , we cant have that now, you know only too well what some of the reasons are in a racist society.

    But I beleive in it, and I am in a country that is far from perfect and has many of the same problems as the USA and its own problems, but it is absolutly one of the most deeply racialy mixed countries in the world.And there are many things that feel like home to me here exactly because of that.


  664. on Fri 26 Feb 2010 at 01:52:26 Leaveumthinking

    B. R.
    Leaveumthinking, I would never skip over your comments

    That entire comment was for Thad.


  665. Leaveum sez…
    I cant speak for the “community” but I think most commenters could care less if Mayer dated black women or not.

    Well, that’s not my interpretation of the commentary. I see an awful lot of comments calling him a racist precisely because he says he doesn’t like black women. In fact, I made the point, several times, that what it seems that people are reacting to isn’t so much his statement as his use of gutter terminology. Several people went out of their way to claim that wasn’t the case: that they believed that he was racist precisely because he said he wasn’t sexually attracted to black women.

    Now, here’s B.R.’s statement, Leaveum:
    I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.

    The criticism still stands. If her were black and saying he feels more comfortable with skin that’s the same color as his hext to it, very few people here would claim that’s fetishistic or racist. Mira for one. I for another. Maybe – MAYBE – one or two more.

    I also don’t think this is necessarily fetishistic. The guy’s been living in Bahia for 23 years. On and off perhaps, but still… And married for 23 years to the same woman. Hell, he’s allowed to grow some tastes in that time, don’t you think? I’ve been in Rio for 10 years and now when I go to SP I get nervous at all the white people around me, even though I’d also lived in SP for 10 years. It’s strange.

    I can relate to why he’s comfortable with what he’s familiar with.

    When did I call BR a racist. Again stop putting words in my mouth.

    Let’s not pick nits, Leaveum. I guy with a skin color fetish would be racist almost by definition.

    If they dont like white men for whatever reason thats their business. Not every black woman is gonna like white men. Hell many white men have no shame when voicing their disgust and hatred for black women.

    No doubt and far be it for me to say that they should. What I’m saying is that it’s funny how some comments are viewed as racism when articulated by a white man and not at all when articulated by a black woman.

    Now, I can understand this to a certain degree, because of the way racism works: said comment by a white man is backed up to a much greater degree of social power than said comment by a black woman. So if your definition of racism is “prejudice plus power”, it’s understandable why one comment can be made with impunity and the other not.

    But racism is ALSO the belief that biology rules behavior and I think people get on some very slippery ice when they want to use the only the “prejudice plus power” definition.


  666. I’ve noticed that a lot of the white men on here are so sexual in their comments, commenting on people’s avatars, ect. But it seems like some of the black men are not, with the exception of Abagond and some of his posts.

    That’s quite interesting.


  667. Thad,

    Instead of always falling back on “all/most of the people here say XYZ” and inevitably getting shot down when someone says s/he never said it, why don’t you address the specific comment or commenter at the time? Seems much simpler to take it up with them than with all of these hypothetical “people.” And given how frequently some of the same people comment here, I wouldn’t be surprised to find 30 comments on the same thing written by 1 person (which distorts how “popular” a given idea is).


  668. You think I like to flirt , islandgril?

    I would be lying if I didnt say I think your picture is cute.yeah, I think the girls pictured on this blog are good looking, but , Im speaking from a distance with no ultirior motive of trying to make a pass.

    By the way Thad, my wife is from Bahia (im not a big fan of Salvador, had a few bad incidents there, but have to visit the inlaws and do business sometimes up there), met her in Rio , though , I live somewhere in Brazil in a location I prefer not to reveal at this time,only because it isnt relevant.

    Beleive me , people, I dont want to even hide behind my being married to my wife. She is 17 years younger than me, so , that may even ring up peoples buttons. She looks 10 years younger so you can imagine how we look together, beauty and the beast.

    But Ive made it clear,most all my whole life, black women have been in it, and have always made an impresion on me.

    All we can really do here is express ourselves , what we feel about this. Im sure expressing my self to get out on the table things I wanted say about this, to people in a discusion like this. No one is changing anyone.

    Beleive me, being attracted to black women is the least neurotic thing about me. Fanon would be skipping over that fast to get to the good stuff.I have no doubts I am going to come up off kilter by any Daughters of the American Revolution standards.I am against the grain.

    I do like to talk about sex,but, on this blog no more than an Oprah Wynfry show might talk on a given day about the subject.

    But I never spend an ounce of time trying to be accepted by anyone.


  669. B.R.,

    That wasn’t specifically directed toward you, but I’ve noticed a lot of the white men have. There was one who was even warned about it. That’s what I was thinking of. Nothing against you per se.

    But sometimes it comes across sleazy in some instances. Again, not you.

    Maybe this is more of a safety zone than irl.

    I don’t like being called “cute”.:) That’s reserved for
    puppies and babies. I appreciate the gesture, though.


  670. ha ha island girl, please excuse me if I came across like I was referring to you in a term that strikes you as for puppies and babies, and thank you for aprecieting the gesture.

    I was afraid if I said you were beautiful, which you are, I would sound “sleazy ” or like a come on, which I absolutly dont want to convey. And cute for me is a powerful compliment, but, I really respect your wishes.

    I hadnt seen other posters since I came in reffering to avr’s so I thought you were reffering to me.

    I would show any one a picture of me and my wife but I dont want to volounteer that with no request.

    I have to say, yes, compared to other forums I go to,like the Miami Herald forum section on Latin America, to talk about Brazil, the ladies on here with their pictures up make those other ones look pretty plain dull and boring.


  671. There is nothing wrong with saying a woman is beautiful. That is respectable. But some were calling people “hot” and using more sleazy phrases.

    I would welcome to see a pic of you two. I think pics enhance conversation because it gives a better understanding of the person. Sometimes it puts things into perspective.

    Sorry about the comment, but ‘cute’ is kinda a pet peeve. No woman wants to hear that they are cute.lol


  672. @islandgirl:

    I don’t like being called “cute”.:) That’s reserved for
    puppies and babies.

    Sorry about the comment, but ‘cute’ is kinda a pet peeve. No woman wants to hear that they are cute.lol

    I agree. I didn’t mind it when I was younger, but as an adult woman, being called cute gets on my nerves. lol! I suppose it’s due to not looking my age and I’m short. Perhaps it’s a good thing, I guess.


  673. There’s a lot worse things someone can be called than “cute”.


  674. True. I’d rather be called cute than ugly. ;-)


  675. Thank you Leigh! I didn’t intend to be anything but nice, but it kinda gets on my nerves. Somehow, I knew you would understand.

    But, I guess you could look at it as a good thing.:) You probably do look a lot younger than your age. Yes, I realize that there is worse things to be called. So it’s cool.


  676. lol at islandgirl and leigh2014

    You know what? I will except cute over sleazy mysoginist names like “hot” or “smashable”. Those rub me the wrong way and it kind of reduces me to a sexual object. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

    I have to agree with you leigh that your height plays a big part in that. I’m a petite height gal and most people equate shortness to being cute. I guess because short height reminds people of children. Also yes your face plays a part in it as well. I get the “cute” label thrown at me alot. I have a very friendly face and friendly smile. That to many is cute. So majority of the time, I get cute as a compliment to my looks. I occasionally get “pretty” but never really gorgeous or beautiful. That’s very very rare lol However, its rare for me to get the ugly label.


  677. Oh “cute”–Luckily, I don’t hear this often, except in obviously non-sexual contexts (my mom or my best friend, for example, might say I look “cute” on a particular day). I like gorgeous, and I think I get that one the most, so that’s good. :-) My boyfriend is the only person who calls me beautiful on a regular basis. I think hot is overused and covers too wide a range of looks–I’ve heard some guys call everything from a 4 to a 10 “hot”, so I don’t think it holds any real weight, you know?


  678. @islandgirl:

    Thank you Leigh! I didn’t intend to be anything but nice, but it kinda gets on my nerves. Somehow, I knew you would understand.

    “Cute” girls unite! lol! ;-)

    But, I guess you could look at it as a good thing.:) You probably do look a lot younger than your age. Yes, I realize that there is worse things to be called. So it’s cool.

    Most people are surprised when they find out my actual age. There are some sayings in my community that would be similar to “Black don’t crack” such as “Brown won’t let you down” and “Beige don’t age”. lol!

    @dani:

    lol at islandgirl and leigh2014

    You know what? I will except cute over sleazy mysoginist names like “hot” or “smashable”. Those rub me the wrong way and it kind of reduces me to a sexual object. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

    I hear ya. My sister is considered the hot sister and throughout her life, men have come up to her calling her “hot” and “banging”. Her husband has gotten into fights because of this.

    I have to agree with you leigh that your height plays a big part in that. I’m a petite height gal and most people equate shortness to being cute. I guess because short height reminds people of children. Also yes your face plays a part in it as well. I get the “cute” label thrown at me alot. I have a very friendly face and friendly smile. That to many is cute. So majority of the time, I get cute as a compliment to my looks. I occasionally get “pretty” but never really gorgeous or beautiful. That’s very very rare lol However, its rare for me to get the ugly label.

    Omigosh, yeah! I’m short, but not THAT short. I’m 5’3″ btw. I also have this round, baby-ish face so I get called cute quite a bit. It does get annoying at times, but I’ll take cute over ugly any day. :-)


  679. @Jasmin

    Oh “cute”–Luckily, I don’t hear this often, except in obviously non-sexual contexts (my mom or my best friend, for example, might say I look “cute” on a particular day). I like gorgeous, and I think I get that one the most, so that’s good. :-) My boyfriend is the only person who calls me beautiful on a regular basis.

    That’s sweet, Jasmin. My man does the same thing. I admit he’s biased. lol!

    I think hot is overused and covers too wide a range of looks–I’ve heard some guys call everything from a 4 to a 10 “hot”, so I don’t think it holds any real weight, you know?

    Oh, totally. I’ve heard my guy friends commenting such and such a woman is hot, and when you see her, you were expecting some drop dead gorgeous woman. Instead, you’re left wondering, “Huh? I don’t see it.”


  680. “Beige don’t age”, ok Leigh, you got me with that one.lol That is too funny!

    Dani, that’s true. But as a person who is called “cute” all of the time, isn’t it nice when someone does say you are beautiful?

    Jasmin, yes, you are very lucky!lol I would have thought you would get that a lot because of your height and girl next door looks. It’s ok when your Mom or girlfriends say you are cute but you DEFINITLY do not want to hear that from a man. If a man says it it’s like – meh.

    Leigh, what makes your sister “hot” as opposed to you?

    This would be a great post actually. What classifies someone as beautiful, pretty, hot or merily cute.


  681. @islandgirl

    Dani, that’s true. But as a person who is called “cute” all of the time, isn’t it nice when someone does say you are beautiful?

    I know I’m jumping into this conversation, but, yes, when someone calls you beautiful, you feel just that…BEAUTIFUL!

    Jasmin, yes, you are very lucky!lol I would have thought you would get that a lot because of your height and girl next door looks. It’s ok when your Mom or girlfriends say you are cute but you DEFINITLY do not want to hear that from a man. If a man says it it’s like – meh.

    Leigh, what makes your sister “hot” as opposed to you?

    Oh, well, I hear it a lot. I’ve had guy friends and other men remarking, “Your sister is hot!” or “She’s a very pretty woman”. And here I am thinking, “What am I? Chopped liver?” lol! It’s okay, though. If I was hot, I would hate to get a lot of attention like that. Besides, my sister gets a lot of the side eye from other women, and she’s the sweetest girl. They perceive her to be a threat.


  682. Leigh and I are the same height, though people tend to perceive me as taller from pictures, since I have a shorter torso and longer legs. It’s not until they get next to me that they realize I’m shorter than your average bear.

    Oh, I love “Brown won’t let you down”! I’m going to try to work that into conversation on a regular basis. :-)

    I think “cute” from a man almost sounds patronizing, like he’s mentally giving you 2 pats on the head and one on the booty. I don’t mind when my boyfriend calls me “cute” (though he uses it to describe my personality/actions at certain times), but I wouldn’t be interested in a man who approached me with that word–it’d be kind of weird.


  683. @Jasmin:

    You do appear taller. In fact, if I didn’t know your actual height, I would’ve mistaken you for someone a lot taller than 5’3″. What do most people tell me? I always get, “Why are you so damn short?” lol!


  684. Leigh,

    I get that a lot. :-)

    And you (we) aren’t that short!


  685. Well, for sure if a woman tells me she doesnt like being called cute, I am more than happy to abide by her wishes.

    For me, cute is a powerful compliment , meaning that cuteness is having an affect on me.

    If I say a woman is beautiful on a forum like this, for me , its indicating an interest my wife wouldnt exactly love. She might not like cute either , come to think of it.

    I love petit, too

    island girl , fair enough about the pictures , if Im seeing you alls pictures, you deserve to see mine (for the first time on any forum Ive participated in,Ill bring something in next post


  686. ok , here is how we roll, Im kind of showing it all now about who I am, but , besides doing what I do here, Im also a serious jazz, Brazilian music, cuban music and funk hiphop drummer who cut my teeth in New York , Rio and started out in Chicago. Ive played with names some of you would recognise and produced a bunch of records.

    Lets keep some fun here and Ill ask you to guess who my wife is…that our son ripping up the mic

    another one:

    yes, I did sneak some others on this forum to prove some points about beautiful black women in Brazil


  687. B.R. that’s cool! Those are my favorite music genres.

    Your son sounds really good! And I’m guessing that your wife is the one in the white fringe top. Interesting family.


  688. “I think “cute” from a man almost sounds patronizing, like he’s mentally giving you 2 pats on the head and one on the booty.”

    That’s true.lol When someone says you’re cute, they might as well be patting you on the head while saying it.

    Leigh, at least you have an excuse due to your height. I’m 5’8!lol


  689. 5’8” seems like a nice height (that’s little above 170cm, I think).

    Jasmin,

    I was sure you were tall! You’re right, long legs do make you appear taller.


  690. Thank you , island girl for your comments.We have a load of fun, Im definilty proud of him.

    Im learning a lot about what females think of the word cute, and , Ill certainly think twice about using it again.

    My intention of calling a woman cute was always of the highest order, but, how the person receives it is the most important thing, right?

    Needless to say, you are beautiful .


  691. oh yeah, my wife is the girl in the middle as you called it…


  692. In my culture, calling a girl or a woman cute isn’t bad per se, but it’s more along the lines of “you’re nice- not too attractive or sexy, but nice”. In terms of dating, it usually means “I wouldn’t mind asking you out on a date, but only if I can’t get anything hotter. But fear not, cute girl, your lack of (sexual) hotness just means I respect you more, because I don’t think you’re a slut”.

    Calling a guy “cute” is almost the same- although no man would take that as a compliment. It means “he’s nice, he’s a good person”. In terms of dating, it usually means: “He’s nice, and a good person, so I want him to be my friend. I don’t find him attractive”.


  693. Also, cute is translated as “sweet”.


  694. Islandgirl,

    5’8” is a great height! Tall enough to pull off the model look but not so tall you have to be the girl who towers over the guys.

    I wish I could show you all my Senior (hs) picture. I’m posed sitting on the ground with my legs extended to the left just so, and I had one guy guess I was 6 feet! I’m pretty sure he was exaggerating, but it was a nice change from being considered a little “shrimp”. :-)


  695. Mira and Jasmin,

    Thanks! I always wanted to be taller, but I guess you’re right. Guys are intimidated by super tall girls. It’s great that you are shorter, but look tall. Means you have long limbs (neck?). Men generally like shorter women.

    Mira,

    You’re spot on, as usual! That’s how I perceive cute too.

    B.R.,

    I went on your Youtube channel and your band is awsome! I love the kinda jazzy, world sound that you have. You sound really professional.

    You’re wife is beautiful. I was able to guess her because she was more conservatively dressed than the other women, but she looks really young.


  696. Thanks again , island girl. Ive been around meaning Ive paid my dues

    , I dont know if you recognise who Minnie Ripperton ( very brief turbulant tour breaking the Perfect Angel album), Carmen Lundy(one of the best jazz singers anywhere), Irene Cara ( actualy worked with her as a dancer , rehearsing dance combinations on the first film Fame) , and jazz names like Dr, Lonnie Smith, Walter Bishop jr,Chico Freeman, Marcus Miller, Alex Foster, Rufus Reid,Ari Brown, Sonny Sharrok,I worked with them as well as other New York names and lots of incredible Brazilian musicians you may not know and many other fantastic people that no one knows but who helped to developed me.I dont want to sound like Im bragging , I just want to give you a perspective of some of my experiance and how it affects my musical direction of my families show.

    Thank you for your kind compliments about my wife. She is 43 now, and dances with a vitality that is inspiring for me. I do have to pinch myself sometimes to understand Im working with a front man inspired by James Brown, Prince, Michael Jackson, Tupac and break dancing, and Chico Science, and , an incredible Afro diasporic dancer who is the real improvising street roots deal about these dances, and they are my family.

    Mira, of course , I can only say what “cute “means for me, but, it is a very sexual attraction term from me.

    When I use it , it actualy comes close to meaning,” I know for a lot of reasons we wont be able to hook up now, but if things were differant, I would be tryint to hook up with you , because you are turning me on , but in a distant way that isnt meant to sound intimite…” but meant in a very respectable way to not sound sleazy

    but that is only how I feel about it, and, Im learning from you all to be careful with that.


  697. Meh. Gimme Raul Seixas, man. :D


  698. “but in a distant way…” meaning that saying a woman is cute is from a distance , because of the various reasons why they cant hook up now, not, that in another world of posible hook up ,the relationship would be distant.


  699. Yeah, Thad, and Paulo Russo wipes out Paralamas, its right there for anyone to compare..smile

    I mean what do you listen to on your box? Suprise me, maybe it will be somebody I like….


  700. Right now I’m listening to Cordel do Fogo Encantado, bummed that they’ve broke up.


  701. Yeah, they are cool, saw them live in Recife…high octane percusion. Three members are from ArcoVerde and have big respect for Coco Raiz…I co produced Coco Raiz second cd…there are some night mare stories about the other people involved, I had to help them get control of their master tapes to be albe to press up themselves.


  702. BR,

    I love Minnie Ripperton, how cool! :-)


  703. jasmin….she was incredible. I wont lie to you, it was a tubulant tour for me, I had a conflict with the music director , he was trying to get me under his thumb in a negative way. After a while I just didnt care anymore and told him to get off my back, and that was the end.

    But being on stage while she sang songs like “Loving You”, and “If I Ever Loose this Heavon” from Quncy Jones “Body Heat” record will be etched in my mind forever. It was only a couple of gigs and 3 weeks reherasal at Studio Instrument Rental, with Earth Wind and Fire next door, and Phillop Baily coming in to sit in on congas once. But, that is the music business

    I cried when I heard she passed .


  704. Forget about The Average White Band version of If I ever Loose This Heaven, here is the difinitive version by Quincy , with Minnie and the author Lean Ware ( who would hang at some of our rehersals ):

    Irene Cara was is a sweetheart also, with a voice so big and beautiful she can drop you in your tracks because she has a little petit body. I did a demo for the Fame people and she was in there doing a demo of Out Here on My Own.

    She would come up and play my bongos in the dance rehersals for the Fame dancers, is it any wonder why this white boy melted into a little pile of goo next to her…she was nice people


  705. I love Irene Cara! She is so beautiful and has a great voice. But I don’t know much about her. I recently watched Fame for the first time and I was thinking that she should have gone MUCH further.

    Now I understand why your band is so great. You have great experiences. That’s cool.:)


  706. Island girl, once again , thank you.Every step in the music business has been a struggle for me, but , Im still out here and I love what I do.

    Oh man, Irene Cara, what an exceptional talent. She is such a good actress !!! I mean really good!! This is a perfect example of how the industry can just decide to not use someone any more , even if they are exceptional talents.And for me, some of it is tied to racism….but actors are pawns no matter what.I only knew her on that Fame set, but, Ill never forget her. Talk about a wicked crush.

    Man, the Minnie live version of If I EVer Loose This Heaven is next to the Quincy one (she was on that too), on Youtube, but I watched and broke down, too deep for me.


  707. Your music sounds like something on those Puyumto cd’s that you see at world markets. Your struggles will pay off. Eventually the music industry will accept good quality music again. I think Sade is breaking that somewhat now with her much anticipated album that is now #1.

    Hopefully they will take a cue from that.


  708. island girl, I dig Sade, I havent heard her most recent record.

    Who is knocking me out latley is this wonderful singer/player,Esperanza Spalding

    I cant get enough of this clip, I keep watching it over and over

    I also am an uptempo bebopper


  709. Yeah, Esperanza sends chills up my spine…

    If iv mentioned Irene and Minnie, I have to also mention two other fantastic singers I worked with who marked me very much. Here is Carmen Lundy, one of our greatest living jazz singers that I was lucky enough to work with in Walter Bishop Jr’s group in New York.And I used her on two of my albums

    And the other singer I have to mention is the phenominal Elza Soares, who I did a video clip with and she apeared on my wife’s first cd as a special guest. She is the best, very few singers can let the band go all out like she can.For Brazilian music, she is an icon, voted singer of the milinium for Brazil by the BBC

    There were many singers that I worked with who were incredible who never got recognition and stopped or are just singing in obscurity. I could never understand the cruelty of the music industry to let such incredible talents waste away.

    By the way, islandgirl, you will probably classify this with “cute” ,its the old “you remind me of…” so forgive me, but your picture reminds me of a really good and drop dead beautiful singer who never made it , who I hooked up with for a minute. I was coming off the seperation of my first marriedge, so I just couldnt give to her the way I would have liked to.She had won beauty contests for jet magizine and stuff like that, but could sing her heart out.And your picture has traces of the beauty I remember a lot about her.Mabe in real life you look entirely differant, but this is just a cyber observation in cyber space.

    By the way, I can tie this all in with the thread here about why so few white men marry black women. Im a white man who has married two black women, and you can see that black women mean so much more to me than any just physical attraction, althought that is there also. Black women have always been in my life and always given me deep inspiration ,culturaly,socialy and spiritualy (in the non religious sence).


  710. Listening to Roberto and Erasmo Carlos right now, just to piss B.R. off! :D


  711. Yeah, the depths your tastes can sink to, knows no bounds, Thad bla bla bla ha

    Man ,why dont you put on some Clara Nunes, Paulinho da Viola, Acione, Djavon,Bezzerra da Silva,Auriniha da Coco, Nacao Pernambuco, Ellis Regina anybody but Raul Seixes, Erasmo Carlos, Barou Vermelho, Titans, Sepulcura, RPM..Ill even give Paralamas a pass….where is Tim Maia on your box?

    oh well, I guess you cant take the rock out of the midwest Wisconson white boy….

    Cmon, tell me you are just jiving me, you dont really listen to those people do you?


  712. ….saw your boy Hermano on a docu about Villa Lobos, cool, he even said exactly what I said, samba from Bahia came down, with its traditions in tact and then mingled with these other influences…..

    I bet we could get along fine inspite of your attempt to inflame some kind of disagreement about music history…

    Now you know Im a musician , surly you understand Hermano cant help me get on a bandstand with Luizao and understand what the heck my bass drum is suposed to do with his bass lines.


  713. Actually, we’re listening to Elizete right now.

    he even said exactly what I said, samba from Bahia came down, with its traditions in tact and then mingled with these other influences…

    OF course. It’s the “mingled with other traditions” part that the roots Bahia people get upset about, however.


  714. B.R.

    Wow, you have a beautiful family. Your wife looks extemely young for her age. And I enjoyed your son on the microphone. He’s a goodlooking boy. Thanks for the youtube videos. I really enjoyed it. I haven’t seen alot of Brazilian dancing before. That was interesting.


  715. Thad, good then, Im with the mingled traditions and understanding Rio evolved samba in the most incredible and diversified way to the state of the art cutting edge it is today……finaly, we agree!!!!! ahhh Ellis

    jeri, thank you very much.Im very proud of our son and his choices in life. He is seriously dedicated and studies Brazilian and American street dance traditions. He watches a documentary all the time called “Black Dance in America”, that traces black American dance innovations that were recognised around the world, like Charleston, Lindy Hop,Rhythm and Blues, James Brown and Disco (the real disco is the Philly sound) to Hip Hop. It makes an impresion on him.

    And thank you for your compliment about my wife. I have always been in awe of her dance skills, and understood she is like a living photograph and documentation of the Afro Brazilian dances she does.She makes my drumming , by her example , not telling me,have to be on point if Im accampaning her.

    Needless to say, Im impressed with the inner beauty of all the women posting here, and the good looking fotos of all the women also.The issues on the table are relavant and need to be talked about, kudos to abagond for attracting you all to his blog


  716. Ellis? No. Elizete. Ana has a serious thing for Elizete.


  717. I disagree to your opinions that white men are being racists toward black women because they don’t marry them as much. I am a white man and for me personally, I only like black women. Its not about any race issue, its a god given preference that I didn’t realize until later in life. My preference is accepted by my white associates but, very much angers by my black associates. The truth is that blacks in America eat drink and breath accusations that all whites are racists… which makes blacks absolutely antagonostic. I am a disabled veteran and married to a black woman. I am American first; why are you African American? When a white person says his friend is black, you counter with that if he was a friend, then why is he black? But, my wife is black and she is still my wife. My point is that if you eat drink and breath racism, then look in the collective mirror.


  718. I don’t think that white men who are married to white women are necesarily racist. I am married to a black man. Does that make me racist? No it doesn’t. I think that people tend to marry people in their own race. I think this is because people tend to be attracted to the people they grew up around. Or they tend to marry people in their own communities. So I wouldn’t necesarily say they are racist. I think a racist is someone who disciminates against black people, such as refusing to hire a black person or abusing a person because of the color of their skin. For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel. It is sad when you are so obsessed with how other people think that you are willing to compromise your own happiness. There are also white men who don’t think that black women are attractive, but that is also weak mindedness. We live in a society that promotes white beauty standards. Many people, both black and white, have accepted these standards. For instance, when the white man doesn’t notice the obviously attractive black woman walking down the street. That is weakmindedness. Black women should concern themselves with strong men, those who are independent minded. I think strong men are very attractive, regardless of their race.


  719. Personally I would never date a white man because of the experienced I endured at Normal, Il. They all are racist to me. they imitate how they think blacks act and it is irritating. Some of them are nice guys, but you can definitly tell how they’re family is at home.


  720. “For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel….”

    good point jerri, gary, you should not let anyone at work influence you on what a general population would feel, just be with your wife, what she thinks is the only opinion that matters

    Elizete, oh yeah, great singer, Thad, they show snippets on her past tv show with all the great singers of the time on rede Record

    Kamisha …hahahaha Normal Ill, I dont blame you (are you down there Jasmin? I see you are in college in Illinois on your blog) , St Louis, parts of Illinois and Indiana have some really racist backgrounds..those white boys just dont know how to act…


  721. Kamisha – do you know me? I went to ILLINOIS STATE UNIVERSITY at Normal, IL.


  722. The problem you get in Illinois is that many of students come from small rural towns that are not exposed to the level of diversity you would find in Chicago.

    My apologies also. I did not realize you were a student there still. (I participated heaveily in the Mult-Cultural Institute on Campus) Is “Leonard” still there? He was running it at the time.

    I’ve got stories to tell you!!! I was there when a race riot almost broke out. A fight started between a black guy and white guy but it had nothing to do with race, then all hell started breaking loose. IT WAS CRAZY. (Long story)


  723. Also though – Chicago is still pretty divided. Even in the highschools you find your “racial clicks”.

    And so the same trend occurs at the University level. I went to college after the Military (Army) and could not believe I was taking a step backwards into something I equated as the “Twilight Zone”.


  724. BR,

    No, I go to school in IN, though I’m from Chicago (and I know quite a few people at ISU–I hear it’s racist down there).


  725. Jasmin – ( I can feel the negative vibes coming my way already ) It is pretty racist at ISU, but I think it is a reflection of Illinois/Mid-West society – including Chicago. Having studied at ISU I can attest to the fact that there are a lot of “exclusive” Black only events that do not encourage Race relations. Almost like a purposeful Black separatist movement. (Hey, I’m all about pride and heritage. I support that 100%!!!)

    My opinion, there is definitely an “anti-white” vibe at the University. It is a beast that feeds itself. It is sad. I recently returned with my wife for the Sweet Corn festival to show her the quad, etc… (a weekend getaway) Several of the “Blacks” threw looks of disgust our ways. (keep in mind no tan and shaved head changes my appearance)


  726. By the way, the picture you see here is me age 25 at ISU!!!


  727. ColorofLuv,

    You went to Illinois State? It’s a freaking small world. My best friend went there. Youn are right, she said that ISU was very serperaist.


  728. on Wed 3 Mar 2010 at 17:40:22 mynameismyname

    Color of Luv,

    Excuse my ignorance if you’ve already introduced yourself before on the blog, but where are you from and what is your ethnic background again?

    The Midwest is the most segregated region in the U.S. Everyone I’ve known who derived from a Midwestern state pretty much confirms this. So, the open racial tension on college campuses on there doesn’t surprise me one bit.


  729. Chicago is know for being very seperatist. I read or heard that Dr. King said that it was the most segregated places he had ever been.

    From what I hear, things are still basically the same. I was born there with a lot of family there and when I visit, I see that it still the Midwest.

    Colorofluv,

    Sweet Corn Fest?lol Sound like the Pork or Strawberry fest that we have here in Indiana.

    Negativity is no good, no matter the source.


  730. To mynameismyname,

    I’m white and background is Irish/German (for the most part with some unknown possibilities in the background.)

    Nobody in my family has ever passed for “Black or Mixed”, BUT I HAVE. (Long story short, go to “Black Women’s hair forum, LOL I cannot pass anymore because what so many considered a tell tale sign -“my hair” – is no longer there! lol)

    I changed my avatar to show a more current pic of me and my wife (Brazilian of mixed heritage).

    Midwest is separatist on both sides, Black & White. I have roots in the Midwest but have a diverse background. Keep in mind I was in the ARMY for 4 years. You get racism there, but by and large I would say in that environment 90% of us follow the mindset of “we’re brothers”. Especially, the longer you’re in. You always get that Sh@! out of the way in Basic Training and AIT.
    I got out of the Army and started to put myself through college. When I saw the polarization between blacks and whites at ISU I literally felt like I was in an episode of the Twilight Zone!!!


  731. not sure when the avatar will change. (maybe Gravatar is having a problem.)


  732. It can take a while.


  733. jeri says,
    For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel. It is sad when you are so obsessed with how other people think that you are willing to compromise your own happiness. There are also white men who don’t think that black women are attractive, but that is also weak mindedness. We live in a society that promotes white beauty standards. Many people, both black and white, have accepted these standards. For instance, when the white man doesn’t notice the obviously attractive black woman walking down the street. That is weakmindedness.

    laromana says,
    jeri,
    Thanks for your EXCELLENT analysis of ANTI-BW COWARDICE and ANTI-BW RACISM. Unfortunately, in my lifetime I (and MANY other BW) have experienced both of these types of ANTI-BW attitudes/actions from most American WM/NON-BM. I hope that some day MORE BW will be able to gain control over American cultural/media sources, DESTROY ANTI-BW LIE/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES, and bring about a MAJOR POSITIVE transformation of BW’s image.


  734. islandgirl and jasmin from Chicago,ahhh that is where I am from, and moved to New York (your island, island girl) when I was 28, at 36 to Brazil.

    Chicago has got segragationist issues. Sure was much worse when I was there, .It also has a huge vibrant black American comminity. I was raised in Evanston , actualy and lived in Hyde Park (my favorite neighborhood there ) for a few years, then New Town.All those neihborhoods were integrated.But there were some white ethnic neihborhoods that were deeply segratated

    I always look for the people who gravitate to the middle and not to the extremse, and Chicago is such a big city that you can find middle ground with anyone you want to.

    What I dont like about Chicago is the hiarcial second city mentality…and that is cold as all heck!! Musicians are more concerned that there are 300 municipled for wedding gigs than actualy trying to get your stuff out there.

    Must be the corn feilds in the midwest that affect everybody down there.Got to be the fumes…


  735. People have a right to love whom ever they choose.I have dated a white man and a black man in my lifetime.I am now married to a black man.They are both very good men. I think people should do what makes them happy.If that is black white or other that is your option.As far as a black man marring a white women if they love each other more power to them. It is not the color of a person’s skin that I feel is important but how big is there heart.Do what is right for you as a person and yu won’t go wrong and even if you do it was your choice no someone else’s.


  736. It’s a lot of Chicago people on here. I’m from Chicago as well. Maybe that’s why Jasmin and islandgirl didn’t experience so much colorism. I mean there are Black people there who have said some crazy stuff that were based on colorism out here but not to the degree I’ve heard others expressed from their neck of the woods. I will admit that the Black men out here tend to gravitate towards more body discrimination. They like they girls with the thick body shapes and tend to be quite harsh on girls who are thin and fat.


  737. on Wed 3 Mar 2010 at 21:53:56 mynameismyname

    Dani,

    Maybe the reason why colorism among black folks isn’t out of control in Chi Town is because the city is so segregated. The folks may tend to “stick together” instead of letting something trivial like physical appearance get in the way of that.

    Colorism among black folks wasn’t really too hectic in CT, either. I think the lack of light skinned blacks may have had something to do with that. Plus, while blacks were plentiful in CT, they were far out numbered by whites. That may have played a part too.


  738. I wonder if there is any underlying cause for this “coincidence”: More Illinois/Midwest/Chicagoans here than say East Coast or West Coast???


  739. I’m loving the Chicago vibe (shoutout to the South Side!) :-)

    Islandgirl and Dani, I’m betting we know some of the same people given how “small” the city can feel at times. ITA that guys are on “thick” autopilot here–I would say there were enough light-skinned people around when I was growing up for there to be a lot of colorism. Now I see some with younger boys (the kids my sisters go to school with), but they seem to get it from the media–most video girls are light-skinned and that’s what they are watching, though they have trouble replicating it in real life since light-skinned Blacks are relatively rare.

    BR, my mom is from Hyde Park! (And so is the President.) I have a friend at ISU (she’s White) who says that Blacks keep to themselves because they tend to get hassled a lot by campus security.

    I didn’t notice how segregated Chicago was growing up, probably because we never ventured far from the South Side. (I grew up in a mixed community that has grown “Blacker” but still has a significant White population, with a growing influx of Latinos.) It wasn’t until I went to high school and we had sporting events against “North Siders” that I saw a difference.


  740. I visit Chicago several times a year. I have a friend whose husband was transferred there. I stay in Rogers Park which is supposed to be one of the most ‘diverse’ neighbourhoods in the States. I to have noticed when there the segregation mentioned by some of the posters. I have been all over Chicago via the public transit(which is good by the way). With that being said, I think you Yanks should commend me for keeping your economy afloat whilst there! See if you can get me discounts when I go again!


  741. All right , Dani, another Chicago native.Fantastic, and , I like that you say maybe in Chicago there is less emphasis on colourism, because Islandgirl mentioned she didnt experiance much (she didnt say she didnt understand it) , and was critisized for it. Then I found out she was from Chicago, and, the truth is, it wasnt as big an issue where I was raised either.Not that it didnt exist, but, it seems its not as much in force as other areas of the country.So Im not surprised she said that.

    Yeah, Jasmin, Hyde Park is cool , I have to admit, I had moved to Rio after 8 years in New York when the Bears won the super bowl, so, I missed a lot of the glory of being in Chicago, for that, the whole Michael Jordan years,the Oprah rise, and the Obama campain. I just remember having some very disapointing afternoons as Walter Peyton took the team on his back and they would loose in the playoffs…ha ha

    Herneath, I actualy lived the first couple of my years in Rogers Park before my family moved to Evanston, and then spent the last couple of months of my Chicago life there in Rogers Park.

    My deepest apologies , everyone from Chicago, Im glad I left ahhhhhhhhh sometimes you just got to know what places you live are for you and which are not going to work for you…..lots of great memories about other things there, heck, I paid a lot of dues there, my blood sweat and tears and life dues are flowing on the streets there….I think Chicago got enough chunks out of me ha ha ha


  742. B.R., Jasmin and Dani,

    Chicago is a great midwestern city, but I prefer NYC. The enviornment seems more open and free thinking. I was born in Chicago and visit family, but raised in Indiana.

    In Indiana, it wasn’t too much of an issue, I don’t think. Maybe it is more of the South.

    B.R., you’re right. I don’t experience much colorism. And thank you! We have to remember that colorism goes both ways. Lighter skinned blacks may experience it just as much as and vice versa. One is just as wrong as the other. Your son is a very handsome lighter skinned guy, so he may have problems as well. Hopefully not. I’m not sure if it effects guys in such a way.

    Dani,

    I agree! I think body-ism is more of a problem with men than colorism. Guys can be brutal when it comes to their preference in body type.


  743. islandgirl said:

    Dani,

    I agree! I think body-ism is more of a problem with men than colorism. Guys can be brutal when it comes to their preference in body type.

    I wouldn’t say that! lol I think it sometimes intersect.


  744. Believe it or not, “colorism” also affects whites. Remember, we live America and people tend to try and classify people: Greek communities, Italian communities, etc…. (Ex: are you Sicilian? NO!!!!!!!! I’m from NORTHERN Italy.)

    Even in the caribbean. I have a Puerto Rican friend. He is white. His family “jokingly” calls him moreno because he can get very dark. (He would never pass for black by the way because of his stereotypical “european features”.

    You even here Italians: I’m Italian! Wait, I’m Sicilian… I’m Northern Italian,


  745. Islandgirl, thanks for the comments about my son, and, I agree , it can go both ways.

    You are right about him being able to be a chameleon, Ive seen him jump back and forth about his origins and nationality .

    If someone cuts down Brazilians, he is Brazilian, if someone cuts down Americans, he is American, identifies with his black side very much (with out blood lines that are black American), and sometimes his Indian, but not his white Scotch Irish , English , German, Portugues side ha ha ha.

    I did raise him in Brazil to not have to receive as much colorism American style in his early years (not that Brazil doesnt have it, it does). At this point, I know he could negociate the terrain as an adult.


  746. Prejudice because of skin tone is very apparent in our society in the U.S. It is hilarious some of the comments that I get. I am of a Caribbean background and am 1st generation American so if I listed my ancestry we would have to start another blog. I am of a lighter complexion but it is very evident that I am “black”. Then I tell people that my mom was born in England, I have gotten responses of “You are lying,” or my favorite “so that is why you have white facial features because your mother is white.” I always correct them and say both of my parents are black.
    What does it matter? I’m not an alien I just have a pretty diverse background, which most people of color do anyway.
    We need to not be so hung up on color and trying to classify people. People need to learn to exist with each other without trying to figure out what makes them different from you. The fact is that what actually makes up your completion is only one tenth of a percent in your DNA. It always drives me up a wall when people try to figure out my ethnicity by just looking at me. 90% of the time you will be wrong so just don’t worry about it. We all have to remember that we are all people and everything else comes after.


  747. Islandgirl,

    New York’s not for me–I plan to move to SF, where hopefully the existence of more than just Black and White (meaning other “brown” people) will make a difference. So far I love the city! :-)


  748. Santa Fe or San Francisco, Jasmin ?


  749. Good points , Nikki67

    Islandgril, New York looks good on you…


  750. on Sat 6 Mar 2010 at 03:07:32 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    San Francisco is a ridicously expensive to live in. It’s almost absurd how high everything is! LOL.

    There is no city in the world like New York City.


  751. on Sat 6 Mar 2010 at 03:09:40 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    San Francisco is a ridiculously expensive city to live in. It’s almost how high everything is! LOL.

    There is no city in the world like New York City!


  752. on Sat 6 Mar 2010 at 03:13:24 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    San Francisco is a ridiculously expensive city to live in. It’s almost absurd how high everything is there! LOL.

    There is no city in the world like New York City!

    Sorry for the last two typo-ridden versions of this post!


  753. Jasmin,

    I’ve heard that SF is a great city. Very progressive. I wish you well with that!

    Myname,

    You’re right! There is no city like NYC. It’s like you experience all different cultures of the world just by the people there.

    B.R.,

    Thanks! I actually lived there and loved it! I plan to move back soon.


  754. Well, Islandgirl, once you spend some time in New York, its always in you. I lived there 8 years, and left in 86, and pass through sometimes anualy for business (shows or production). But nobody can tell me I am not a “New Yorker” , even though I havent lived there for 24 years.

    One year in New York is like 3 anywhere else.

    I was there when it was really wild and wholly. You learn a lot of stuff there in an excelerated way. You learn how to look through people and there is a business frankness that is welcome sometimes :you make a business call to try to move your product, ” are you buying or selling? you are selling? bye bye..(the phone hangs up)”

    I dont know if I would move back, but, its in me, you learn life lessons in New York, but I discovered I have a big love to be on a beach.


  755. Ill tell you the number 1 reason why wm and bw dont get married that much- its the same reason why only 3 percent of all maried couples are interracial. Its because we, the races, are not exposed to one another that much, as a society. More or less, we occupy different neiborhoods, schools, churches, etc. and media\entertainment, etc plays off that. Media will reinforce the thought that we might be different in too many ways to get along with eachother, or date one another. After all, if you cant get to know someone, how are you going to marry them? Its a sad state in modern America, where we more or less believe we live in different worlds. This keeps us drawing boundaries, making labels, ” oh, she\hes from the ‘hood’ you shouldnt date them’ or “hes/shes a snobby suburbian, dont go near them” its all a facade. Yes, we as humans naturally lean towards those like us, so, i myself have dated women [all races] who had a great sence of humor, and were intelligent\educated. So, this is probly why i havent dated what some might label a ‘ghetto’ woman, but i also havent dated white trailor trash women either.
    Saying one race acts a certain way and another doesnt is the definition of racism. I think, for me, it has more to do with your attitude and understanding of things. Also, these ‘ghetto’ or ‘white trash’ women i mentioned would never seem as though they would like me. Simple people occupy thier minds with simple thoughts. Some people care more about money and extremely good looks rather than honesty, humanity, humor, and having personality. Ive met some of the most gorgeous women in my life, but they have the personality, as south park onces put it ‘of a wet carrot’.


  756. I like some of the things you are saying, White…

    The problem , White, is “ghetto” has been pumped up in the media to huge fake preportions.

    “The ghetto” has a huge range of people. You are refering to a stereotype created by the media.

    My first wife was from the deep ghetto in Chicago, the now defunct Robert Taylor Homes projects. She had nothing like what the media tries to project as “ghetto”. She was a strong woman, but, didnt pose with some charactorisations that pass for what a “ghetto” woman is suposed to be like.

    There are wonderful women from any neighborhood you could think of that would be labled “ghetto”, hard working women, very artistic women, very refined women , religious women, women trying to raise kids, all kinds.

    We all have to learn to get passed the stereotypes of people to find real people.


  757. WOW, im only 19 years old and im appaled of how ppl think.im black or african american and honestly i dnt know wht the correct term to use is.ppl get offended over evrythng now a days. i just wanna be classified as an american female not a black african AMERICAN.i go to an hbcu and ppl actually choose to go here unlike myself. they “wanted to be around ppl they were confrontable with”.the only reason i go to a hbcu is because its cheaper than any other school the level of education is subpar and the administators make rediculious rules to compensate some how for their lack there of! i feel my intellience is being insulted evryday i wake up and go to class. im also feel they are training us to be good BLACK business ppl.evrythng involves race idunderstand the substance this holds honestly its a recession and if you can benefit the company better than other employee you have a job!

    this whole dating thing truely is simple.no one is willing to go outside their confort zone. one of my friend said ” she didnt think she would be strong enough to date a white man” but i guess she would be strong enough to deal with the blacks man ego abuse deciet unemployment and disease.not saying thats wht black men are about but just pointing out that it is easy for her to have love for a black man than a white man who just might be the love of her life.maybe this is why the divorce rate is so high b/c ppl are not willing to find the right person beyond their prejudices.

    and i just wanted to say females in general are money hungry loud manipulating and aggressive not just bl;ack women also black men have small dicks too.i wish ppl would stop basing everything on race and just find a commonality.


  758. To B.R. –

    yes, you are correct. This is what i tryed to say above, by placing the word ghetto in quotations, as to show it is a term that supposedly means something, but is meaningless, as people are individuals, and have traits of their own, not destined by race\location etc. But, i did state that education does in fact affect ones traits, and yes, there are educated people in ‘ghettos’ and trailor parks, but we are taught not to believe so. so, yes, i agree.


  759. I’m late on this thread! I’m in San Fran right now visiting my boyfriend, and I love the city (though it is very expensive)! I plan to teach here after graduating. :-)

    I have family in NYC, and I’ve never liked it! I couldn’t live there (permanently, at least).


  760. Funny, it was only in New York that I got treated like a decent intelligent educated human being worth marrying by a white man, an Italian-American. I’m Native American not “black” but because I have dark skin most men treat me like black and as you say, ignore me. I grew up “white” suburban college prep and educated. And assuming that I should have my pick of any place I wanted to live and any school I wanted to teach Math or Science in, and also any pick of the kind of men who shared my upbringing, religion (Anglo-Catholic) and way of life. That would be whites. I’ve had New Yorkers, men no less, look at me and tell me that as a Science and Math major I should be able to “write my own ticket” as to which schools in which cities I wanted to teach. Not just be stuck with the Bronx being the only borough that’s desperate enough to hire “even me” for Science and math because the South Bronx is so heavily Puerto Rican and that’s what I “pass for,” and that would be the reason. That even the science and math teaching profession should see me as a science/math person first and skin color second.

    But he’s right. Men do see me skin color first, everything else last if at all. Doesn’t matter that I like classical music, ice skating, took Latin in high school, none of that matters because all anyone sees is skin color first and then IF they’re still listening to the rest, they act surprised if they don’t outright refuse to believe me.

    My only quibble is that I found New York and to a much lesser extent Boston the only places where I got the time of day from a white man. The West, California especially, and of course the damn South, forget it. I get schlepped in with blacks whom I have nothing in common with.

    And as Native American I have no interest whatsoever in Black men. Who ever said that all dark-skinned women wanted to marry Black men – whose fantasy world are they living in?!


  761. If you plan to teach in SF after graduating, I hope it’s either Science or Math because when I left (I got hired by SFUSD myself) they weren’t hiring anything else.


  762. Oh, and he’s right about white men not wanting their genetic material “polluted” with brown skin. Indian, dark-Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, anything they can call “black.”

    That’s why I focus on trying to marry men who want to marry for some other reason. Marriages of convenience. Who knows, my parents stayed together 35 years in a marriage of convenience.

    I’d take a marriage because they were gay and wanted to pretend they weren’t; or military ones (people wanting the spousal benefit of being able to move into married people’s housing or other benefits), US or Canadian permanent resident status, etc. That way they don’t have to worry that my skin colour might pollute the kids. I know that’s what factors first in their minds. They don’t want their kids looking like me.

    BTW the guy I almost-married in New York did keep saying he wanted kids with me. I don’t. That’s part of what our problem was.


  763. Pamela,

    I’ll be doing bilingual education, but I hope to start in high school (I’m an undergrad now).


  764. Sorry, that probably didn’t make sense. What I meant is that I’m not going directly into teaching at the college level since I will just be graduating with a Bachelor’s, hence why my preference (of K-12) is high school.


  765. on Sun 28 Mar 2010 at 03:20:12 Marquis Antony

    Because some Black girls play hard to get especially towards or to White men or those Mestizos who are half Mongolian and half Indo European. This is another reason why White men do not or really cannot get into boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. So blacks women need to spread the word and let all the sistuhs know that they need to stop putting up a iron wall and playing so damn hard to get to non Black men.


  766. I am a white woman who has been hounded by black men for years. I am not blonde, I am not a model nor a stripper, and I absolutely don’t invite that kind of behavior. This is just not comfortable for me, especially since many ‘invitations’ would occur at the office and/or when I was totally not prepared to deal with it. Imagine trying to compose yourself before you have to chair a meeting, just after your boss has said something totally inappropriate to you. (No, I didn’t waste my time reporting that to the EEOC.)

    A good friend of mine works with many black men, and we had a conversation about this. I asked him why so many black men were interested in white women. He told me that he had asked some of his co-workers the same question, and they told him that they didn’t like the attitude of the black women with whom they had been in contact. They didn’t like the bossiness, they didn’t like the obsession with materialistic things – hair weaves, nails, clothes, shoes, etc. From what he told me, it seemed more like a ‘maintenance’ issue than anything else. Nobody wants to be in a relationship where the other party is basically screaming that it’s all about THEM.

    My cousin, who is white, married a black man whom she had known since high school. Our family accepted him, we thought he was a great guy, but the women in his family were horribly hateful towards my cousin. He had married the woman of his dreams, but they didn’t care. They finally let up with their nastiness when she bore him two adorable children.


  767. on Tue 6 Apr 2010 at 07:22:29 angelica tillis

    while it may be true that white men are racist towards marrying a black woman i think that black women are actually not interested in white men not for marriage anyway black women are very complex white men cant satisfy our needs only a black man can begin to come close and even he’s not good enough for us anymore. Reason that we dont see white men /black women marriages at as high a ratio as black men/ white women marriages is because black women are not interested in or actively seeking a white man. In Atlanta area we have ceased in seeking men all together but thats another topic.


  768. Jadajing,

    A good friend of mine works with many black men, and we had a conversation about this. I asked him why so many black men were interested in white women. He told me that he had asked some of his co-workers the same question, and they told him that they didn’t like the attitude of the black women with whom they had been in contact. They didn’t like the bossiness, they didn’t like the obsession with materialistic things – hair weaves, nails, clothes, shoes, etc. From what he told me, it seemed more like a ‘maintenance’ issue than anything else.

    These sort of comments make no sense whatsoever. White women work to upkeep their hair (dyes, cuts, etc) and nails, and shop just as much as any woman. Materialism and consumerism are a part of American culture.

    angelica tillis,

    Reason that we dont see white men /black women marriages at as high a ratio as black men/ white women marriages is because black women are not interested in or actively seeking a white man.

    Yes, it is a lack of interest from both sides, rfom what I can tell. See this discussion:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/why-some-black-women-prefer-not-to-date-some-white-men/


  769. *from


  770. I talked about this here

    http://www.ankhesen-mie.net/2010/03/thing-about-black-women-and-interracial.html

    and here

    http://www.ankhesen-mie.net/2010/03/why-preference-is-racist-mot-du-jour.html

    The first one naturally got more attention, and women – white and non-white had some interesting things to say. Ignore that guy on there.


  771. ^Great stuff, Ankhesen! I skimmed through the first post. I’ll thoroughly read and digest both later, when I have more time.


  772. Natasha,

    I concur. Materialism and consumerism is just the American way. It’s just that black women and white women spend their money on different things.


  773. Yeah, I checked it out ,Ankhesen, nice to know you are an Ankhesenoligist….

    Lots to digest and think about there


  774. islandgirl, definitely. Black women might spend more overall on hair care, but white women probably spend more on skin care and make-up. Amount spent on nails and clothes is probably equal. The only difference is the media likes to dissect the habits and behaviors of black women, while never discussing white women.

    To be honest, I’ve never gotten my nails professionally done, and never worn a weave. I do have naturally long nails and hair, but even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t go to the hair or nail salon that often. I couldn’t fit it into my schedule between work, free time, and time spent with my SO, and I’m too cheap, lol. I just file my nails every week or so, and set my hair at night.


  775. Natasha,

    Same here. I rarely get my nails done and have only worn weave for shows (and take them out when the show’s is finished), ect. Not in everyday life. Very low maintence. Also, I am one of few women who don’t enjoy sitting in the salon.

    You’re right. Different women spend money on different things. White women skin care, tanning, color ect. Black women, hair and nails, mainly.


  776. on Sun 11 Apr 2010 at 05:12:47 teacup dreamer

    the WORLD is a melting pot – we should all be assimilating (no necessarily conforming.) i believe that there is someone for everybody with or without the ad-on’s. in itself, it does not make a woman any more or less superficial or materialistic to pamper herself or enhance and accentuate things that make her feel and look pretty. to some degree we all do it (men and women/white and black, etc.)

    it appears that the discussion has been misguided a bit from the real issue at hand. and that is: Why so few white men marry black women?

    i genuinely believe that the answer(s) to this age old question is as unique as the individuals it applies to.

    peripheral issues sometimes confuse matters more than shedding light on them. i’d really like to discuss what strengths the opposites like most about each other and build on that.

    BTW, i am a black woman that happens to have a NATURAL attraction to white men as they have been to me. i’ve not had to pretend to be anything other than myself in their company. i have been fortunate and unfortunate in love with one man did not entertain stupidity…he said that he was flattered that i would consider him. at times we disagreed about things which in any relationship could cause an end…but we often discussed the idea of having a family and doing great things together. COLOR WAS NEVER A PROBLEM!

    his manliness in every way man me happy to be a woman. we’re no lovers anymore, but we are still friends.


  777. on Sun 11 Apr 2010 at 05:39:33 teacup dreamer

    sorry about the typos folks.


  778. White women skin care, tanning, color ect.

    You can either go the “be pretty when you’re young” route, and spend time on tanning, or you can go the “preserve my skin so it won’t be too wrinkled by the time I’m middle aged” route, and spend your money on sunscreen.

    And then a lot of white women get perms to give their hair any degree of wave, or are bottle blonde. Plus there’s the whole effort involved in trying to stay thin. You’re right; I doubt either race is that much lower maintenance than the other.


  779. on Sun 11 Apr 2010 at 07:38:29 teacup dreamer

    that’s the thing with self-confidence and appeal…if a person doesn’t feel attractive or secure then they wont exude the confidence they will need in order to attract the right kind of person. now being self-absorbed is something completely different. no one likes that.

    as a BW i don’t constantly have to remind anyone that i’m happy/secure with my blackness or femininity or that i am different from the “Ghetto Girls” or that i’m am NOT less than any WW on the planet. the men that like me discern that almost immediately. progressing to MARRIAGE depends on so much else and for some WM/BW it’s in there ability or inability to face social iniquities together.

    attraction: there are so many degrees and levels that it is difficult to put it in a tiny little nutshell. the same qualities that i find attractive in WM are also just as abundant in their Black counterparts. i think love & marriage are a gamble and there are fears that plague even toughest of men who are or could be interested in BW.

    but i say to those WM, those of you who are attracted to us – Defend the Honor of the Women You Love, Like & Adore. Take the Lead in Taking a Stand and we will back you up. whether they disagree or not they will respect you and have to accept your decision. change will not take place unless we insist. loving a woman (period) is NOT TABOO! just like us you can re-educate the world. teach others to see our beauty from your perspective. it won’t take much to persuade them when you are convinced yourself. ladies can do the same!


  780. I hear you, Teacup, I like what you are saying.


  781. After reading everyones comments, I found each very interesting. If I may be allowed to express my opinion, it appears that every comment posted is a direct reflection of individual experiences. Some are coming straight from hip. Others are more articulate and emotionally dynamic. Reflecting on my own experiences, I am somewhere in the middle. Here is what I mean. Most white american males have a social value system that is understood by their group or tribe. Currently, there is no comparitor available as of yet that correctly describes where a black female fits in their tribal or group description. Therefore, on a subconscious level it may just turn out that white males see black females as being exotic, attractive, strong, demanding and independant. This subconscious accessment might be fueled by how blacks have had their cultural perception delivered to the world as a whole. All of us tend to forget that the our reality is constantly being redefined by new and different perceptions created and projected by the media, advertisements, books,movies etc… As everyone knows, it has not been very flattering. As far as the black female is concerned, she may need to act more like forbidden fruit thereby making her even more attractive to all men of any racially different group. A lot also depends upon ones socio economic standing. If black women that white men meet and date seem to be aggressive, demanding etc… it may have something to do with their inability in the past and present to have access to the american dream. Over the past 15 years I have watched a somewhat confusing social developement unfold itself in our society. Professional Atheletes who happen to be black are finding it very difficult to avoid being pursued by white, latino, european,italian,french etc… women. I wonder why that is such a problem ? I think we all know exactly why. Lets reverse the senerio. Black Professional women who have made it, are also being pursued by white males. No dought why. It seems, when it comes to romance and love and marriage, that ever present reality of money keeps raising its ugly head in spite of race. The lesson here is when money is the objective, race is no longer a problem. So black women and white men start identifying why and for what reasons you want that special somebody in your life. Be honest enough to discuss what it is that you want from a relationship on the very first date. Remove all doubt and go from there. To many times in the past I have failed to ask the 2 most important questions in any relationship on the very first date. They are “What is it that you want for yourself” and “What is it that you want from me.” Scarry questions huh. If you are the least bit honest with yourself and the person that you are dating then these are the 2 most important questions that you could ask anybody that you think you might want to be with. If you don’t ask these questions then you are just wasting their time and your time. The relationship is on a nose dive to the ground on the very first date. For God’s sake, be honest.


  782. This is a response to Pamela in reference to her Sunday March 21st, 2010 reply.

    Wow, that was really heart felt. I feel your pain. it must be hard to be mistaken for something that you are not. It kind of shows me how all people are percieved in this country, not by the content of their character but by the color of their skin. I am sorry about that. I had somewhat the same problem and this is how I learned to master my situation. One day about 10 years ago, I was about 42 or 43 and quite tired of observing the color line presented to me by our society here in america. I started to project an image of myself as a successful and prosperous guy. Well low and behold, within a few weeks people started to respond to me totally different. Especially women. I started to say to myself. I am an incredibly decent person inside and out. I kept saying this and other good things about myself for the next 30 days. Incredibly, people started to respond to me exactly the same way. Well, I knew something really cool was happening to me and continued up to today. What I learned was that people will see you exactly as you project to them what it is that they find attractive in themselves. Humbly, I have found that women of every shape size and race respond to me exactly as I wish them to. Every woman I meet likes me almost immediately. The reason seems to be that I project an image of what it is that she likes about a man. Every woman I meet see’s me as exactly what it is that she likes about men, because I project that image to her through the way that I am thinking about her. I could care less what race she is, I make extra sure that I am thinking that she is a very nice woman and deserves to be treated like a queen. This technique works on women and men from the very lowest stations in life to the very highest. Try something for me if you will engage me for a moment. The very next time that you meet someone, try and think that they deserve your utmost attention and watch what happens. When I meet people the color of their skin means absolutely nothing to me. I control the outcome of what they are thinking, just by the thoughts that are in my head. Even the most miserable and unhappy person finds it very hard to resist what I am thinking when I meet them. I have learned to be very persuasive with my thoughts. If I can do it than anyone can.


  783. on Tue 13 Apr 2010 at 04:28:29 teacup dreamer

    Reginald, you sound like a very charming and sincere man. thank you for being positive and reassuring with your message. empathy is a nice quality to have. compliments to you!

    dear Pamela,
    please know that the following is meant with all due respect. so please try not to take any offense…i was taught that “Out of the Heart’s Abundance, the Mouth Speak”

    the embittered tone of your words on March 21, 2010 gives the impression that you are insulted when mistakenly identified as a BLACK WOMAN. the essence of your comments left no doubt that you are so very injured by the stigmas of your Rich Skin Color, especially as it so closely resembles something that non-black men “seem” to be disinterested in. CLEARLY you have been misjudged. but my question to you is this: are you more offended that they aren’t even aware that you are Native American -or- that they perhaps see you as something LESS in your personal estimation (i.e., a BW?)

    it is quite apparent that you are not flattered by the notion of being confused with a BW, as if it would be such a bad thing. (i’m just going to assume for argument sake that it is a compliment to BW that you should be mistaken as one of us.) perhaps you’ve just been unlucky in love, narrowly missed the opportunity to meet the Mr. Right or maybe it’s what Reginald was really saying, ‘That Attitude.’ while you may have a lot of attributes that make you a potentially eligible match your odds wont increase when negativity dominates your personality. not all white men see things the way you’ve described and even the ones that might choose to marry and raise family’s with white women are all prejudice either.


  784. on Tue 13 Apr 2010 at 05:29:53 teacup dreamer

    re: Pamela’s previous comment…

    “My only quibble is that I found New York and to a much lesser extent Boston the only places where I got the time of day from a white man. The West, California especially, and of course the damn South, forget it. I get schlepped in with blacks whom I have nothing in common with.

    And as Native American I have no interest whatsoever in Black men. Who ever said that all dark-skinned women wanted to marry Black men – whose fantasy world are they living in?!”
    _________________________________________________

    we all have differences, but you have “nothing in common with, blacks.” am i mistaken or did you just objectify a group of people in the same way you’d prefer not to be? do you really think that you are so far above your fellow human?

    i though you said that you enjoyed “Classical Music, Ice Skate & took Latin in High School.” nice to hear! i am a classically trained pianist 7-years at a small Conservatory of Music & Arts on CRENSHAW in LOS ANGELES (not including what i learned from my Grandmother who was also my music teacher for years.) BTW, did i mention that i am conversant in french. i never got into ice skating, but was a gymnast on the uneven bars all through HS.

    (this is not a competition. i only compete in the business world.)

    so here’s the point, there is nothing about what i’ve learned or achieved that makes me better than anyone else. Not Even You! which means most certainly are not better than me ;o) nor are you as a Native American Woman too Good for a Black Man.

    and while i am also not attracted to Black Men (in a romantic way), i don’t find them repulsive. They too are beautiful human beings that i appreciate in different ways. just because i am not interested in them in one particular way does not mean that they are unworthy of my kindness or respect. i’m urging you to remember that abhorrent feeling you get when a man of your liking rejects you with prejudice, when you consider other people.

    like Reginald, i think we should elevate our thoughts about people. let’s have a little DIGNITY in our considerations of others…White, Black & Everything Between. Please?


  785. Reply to Teacup Dreamer

    Thank you Teacup dreamer. May your faith in yourself always deliver a most incredible effect into your life.


  786. Reginald and teacup,
    Thanks for your inspiring, uplifting tips on how men and women should approach each other, regardless of race.

    As far as American society is concerned, I have seen BW who posess MOST of the positive qualities that American men of EVERY RACE “claim” to want but, regardless of personality type, the fact remains that MOST of these BW are not being pursued by American WM/NON-BM because of ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE.

    It’s ABSOULUTELY necessary that ALL American WM/NON-BM DECIDE to STOP buying into ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES and learn to RESPECT the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW as they do NON-BW.


  787. Reply to Laromana

    Thank You Laromana. I really appreciate your response. I totally agree with your mindseye view of how all of us could greatly improve our relationships with each other. I kind of wonder if we actually comprehend all of the dynamics of a real relationship between men and women. Sometimes when I am out and about one of the things that I enjoy is observing other couples. I can actually tell how long a couple may have been together. It is so wild watching them communicate with each other. I continue to learn more and more about us, just by watching them. Unfortunately, there are times when I can see or sense that things are not going well. That kind of makes me feel a little uneasy but I am still learning about us. As a man, it has become very obvious to me exactly what my short comings have been with women in the past by paying a little bit of attention to other mens reactions to their women. I am looking at others strictly from a clinical point of view. I am watching and listening for words, tone of voices, body language being displayed by both genders in hopes that I can succesfully write an interesting book about men and women. I think we will find the scientific information alone should help all of us to learn a lot more about what actually motivates and compels us to inneract with each other the way we do now. If I write the book in a simple no frills way, people of all backgrounds will probably appreciate it a lot more than if I write it with a lot of high brow mumbo jumbo. As you can tell, I have a lot to say about this subject. Primarily because it should help all of us to make much better mateing picks. This should help all of us. As Siddhartha Gautama once said, “He or she who experiences the unity of life sees his or her own self and looks on everything with an impartial eye.: Hopefully I can write this book keeping this quote in mind. Live life well.


  788. on Wed 14 Apr 2010 at 00:38:04 teacup dreamer

    well said laromana!

    i agree that we are pursued significantly less by NON-BM even with all the wonderful extras. that by itself can make anyone feel unappreciated. i cannot deny that the Lies, Myths & Stereotypes exist. sometimes people allow themselves to believe such untruths because they validate fears.

    there is a cultural paradigm that needs to be dissolved before we can rationally move forward. sad to say though, that more often than not BW are defending themselves against impressions that they did not personally make.

    maybe this is a matter that should be addresses from every possible direction instead of one or two???


  789. on Wed 14 Apr 2010 at 00:51:01 teacup dreamer

    Reginald, please let us know when your book is published!?!?


  790. Reply to Teacup Dreamer

    Will do teacup. Keep in mind that there is still a lot of research left to do from effects of infant to adolescent programming that is done from our personal enviorments to traumatic events that lead to bad relationships because of memorys that play over and over in our heads due to these traumatic events and how and why they many times lead to commitment to those memories as a personal behavioral addiction. Example, many times men and women are attracted to the very same type of person that they may have recently broken up with. Sciences explains it as a brain chemically induced effect. Which actually means that they become masochistic in their behavior towards the new person because certain endorphins in the brain are fired when they see or sense the resemblances of all of their past experiences with other people that they may have been with. The science details really blend well helping to explain and actually pinpointing the exact times and or conditions of when we will be able to see when the new relationship is scheduled to either succeed or fail. All of it will be perfectly documented. These are some of the most amazing scientific discoveries of our time. Did you know that a man can wear or carry a certain smell that any woman in the world will notice and take a liking to immediately and have no idea why she likes that certain aroma. This is because women are naturally hardwired in their brains to respond to this smell as pleasing and erotic and absolutely can not resist it. Don’t worry, only about 0000000.1 of the male population is even aware of this secret. By the way, there is a scent that women can wear that will give the exact same reaction to all males also. By the way, if either one of these aromas are worn it will definately attract all of the people that we should be trying to avoid. Thats how powerful it is.


  791. Hey everybody, I just thought of what brought me to this blog. It was people talking about relationships which by now you know got my attention because of my research for a new book. I would like to ask a few questions to everyone here. What is it that you are attracted to in WM ? At what age did you feel this attraction ? The reason I ask is because I am trying to access and understand what exactly triggers these attractions. My mother is a very light skinned woman and my dad was dark brown. I am somewhere in the middle complexion wise. I have dated women from all over the world and have loved them all from South East Asia to France to South America to Russia to Nigeria I never paid much attention to what color or complexion they were. I am very interested in your responses. It will probably help me to completely understand the scientific interpration of your responses. If you don’t want to list or specify your names it is completely ok. I just need the response for its scientific value. Thanks everyone.


  792. This reply is to all of the men whose comments I found very interesting to say the least.

    Fella’s I really don’t know how to start but I’ll try my best. Over the years my opinion of women has changed at least 10 or more times. I have been baffled, confused, jerked around and emotionally confounded by many women. To this day what they actually want, eludes me to this day. However, one of the things that inspires me about them is their uncanny ability of convincing me that I always want them. Gentlemen, this is a very well plotted out plan that they sometimes use to try and get us to believe that we are running the show. The truth is that they have been running the show since the caveman days. They will never admit it to us but it is what it is. In this blog I have read many comments that they wrote. Go back and listen this time while you read them. Each one has a very unique way of expressing almost the exact same demand. Don’t be fooled by the tags and titles they may carefully inject into their sentences, be mindful of how the adjectives are being carfully controled and used. If you don’t then you will miss their entire collective message. You are being called into a mysterious language world that only they understand. You are being summoned into a new realm of accountability and women once again are the intelligent inquisitors that you must answer to. Some are actually using reverse psycology on a level that men find themselves compeled to respond only to be cut down in the prime of their responses to be ridiculed and picked apart like so many eunichs to be counted as cannon fodder casualties. These are very intelligent women and no match for primal male mentalities. If you dare to think that they are only black women talking then you have made your second mistake. Verbally you are no match for their superior linguestic techniques. They are determined to force you to yield to their demands through words. Words are very powerful as we have taught them while we seduce them with the things that we tell them when we want something from them. They learned this from us. Now it is time for the supposed teachers to sit back and really LISTEN with attentive ears so that we can learn exactly what they are really saying. Here is what I hear them telling us. We want what we want and we will have it our way regardless There is no need to fight it because you will submit in time. Now the language does not actually say it but they know you will never understand their code. By the time you do, you will have completely submitted to their will. Here is an example of what I mean. In Homers Odyssey, Odysseus had his entire trip extended by a year or 2. Odysseus’s mistake was that he refused to put wax in his ear because he wanted to hear The Sirens song. Bad mistake. He had no intention of stopping. Male ego made him do it and loose a couple of years trying to get home to Ithaca. This was Homers way of telling men about how powerful a womans influence is. Most men thought that Odysseus stopped to get females to serve him and his men. Wrong. How many times have we thought that we were conquering a women when in fact she was priming us for something she wanted from us 2 or 3 weeks later. Homer was trying to tell men to be wary of the mental power that women have over them. We still did not listen, even and up to today. Life is not an exact science, it is an art. No one knows this better than a woman. So lets beat our chest and yell to the top of our lungs how we are men and never surrender. At the same time try to remember the orifice that we yell from will never defeat the orifice that we were born from. This is wisdom.


  793. Hello all. This is for the ladies.
    If you read my latest blog, it appears as if I am venting about women. In all actuality I was attempting to verbalize a bit on my own personal experiences with women. At the same time, I attempted to explain my perception of what I had read on this site. If I did not do this then I would not be in pursuit of the truth as I see it. My opinion should in no way reflect that of any other man. It is mine and mine alone. It was not intended to offend anyone. If I did then please humbly accept my apology. I am only trying to be as honest as I can be in an attempt to truly understand what exactly all people are experiencing on the subject of relationships. It is also not my intention to hide some of my true feelings to make everyone think that I am something that I am not. Therefore from time to time I will express how I feel because it allows me to experiment within the realm of human science. By doing this in a raw and untethered way it allows anyone to correct or judge my most truest intentions of getting to the nucleous of the truth about this subject. I am a Scientist with a deep rooted passion for my work. Thank you.


  794. Whtfuk are wrong with stereotypes.

    I am a North European man from an all white society, and I mean all white; in a rural district of Scandinavia. I am as white as u gets them, whit blonde hair, blue eyes and all that.
    I do typical white activities like skiing and listen to white music, and have a quite good education. In general a stereotypical white male, and I admit, I’m quite a racist in many ways, and I really think stereotypes are hilarious. Some years ago I find my self by haphazardness stranded in the middle of Africa, surrounded by black Africans. I didn’t like Africa, I found Africans most annoying, and I absolutely did not fancy their black women. I hated it, and just wanted to go home to my valley up north and chase blonde big-breasted sword-women.

    One night I was insanely wasted in a bar in the hart of Africa. I do not remember in details, but the next day I wake up whit a black African single mum from Burundi. This is some years ago, and the funny thing is that I have been whit her ever since. She is a typical stereotypical black woman: loud, jealous and aggressive against other females, religious, moody, curly hair, has a good booty, likes chicken, poor educated and like spending money on bling-bling.

    You know what, I love it, and I never had a boring day in my life since I met her. I do not try to make either her or our son, more European/white. I even in many ways encourage the stereotypical black thing; I spending a lot of money on gangsta stuff like new era caps and turntables to our little son.
    They both like skiing and I think that’s cool, even if it’s a typical white activity. My gold is that my soon shall be the best black African skier ever, my woman still ski whit a stereotypical black woman’s style: I got her a tight white ski suit whit fur from Vuarnet and a pair of La Croix skis with gold, it was expensive shit but worth every euro.
    I myself are properly more white then I ever been before.

    We have a lot of conflicts in our home, I hate RnB, Bongo Flava and Nigerian movies, my woman hate David Allan Coe, Rock and Norwegian Black Metal. We argue a lot and using a lot of stereotypical racist lines to insult each other, and always end up whit some fantastic violent makeup sex.

    I think we bought find these stereotypical racist things as an extreme turn on. In fact she is a very nice, caring and supporting woman besides being a crazy firework.

    I find her very attractive, in fact she have totally turned my view on black women. I still find white women sexy but I must admit I find black sexier. I consume porn in large scale, it may not a good thing, but I’m not to ashamed about it. I mainly watch porn whit black women; I also like interracial porn whit white women getting hammered by blacks.
    I’m not afraid saying I am a racist who just tend to get extremely horny by my black woman’s big juicy ass and volcano temper.
    I don’t think my parents really like it, but one benefit whit Scandinavia is that everyone are left-wingers who “hates racism” even if their deep in their hart do not like either black people or foreigners at all.
    Her family does most certainty don’t like me, but I have money, and they don’t. Hah!

    It may interest you that my woman has very dark skin, and that I find it very attractive.
    And seriously I don’t understand what wrong whit Jezebel is and Sapphire. I think they are both great role models. Who wants to be whit a woman who doesn’t like to fuck and fight? It must be boring as hell.


  795. The above comment is staggering in its ignorance. Wow. Just wow.


  796. @Natash W

    I stopped reading after a few lines anymore then I would have a headache


  797. @Natasha W:

    No kidding, huh? Idiocy at its finest.


  798. LMAO @ M L

    WOW is I can say….


  799. ML,

    Seriously?


  800. Im shocked!!!!

    (ML sais ” I consume porn in large scale, it may not a good thing, but I’m not to ashamed about it. I mainly watch porn whit black women; I also like interracial porn whit white women getting hammered by blacks”……….B.R. co-sign)

    Reginald….interesting .


  801. oops…..dont know how that “co-sign” slipped out…..just multi -tasking i guess……..


  802. Surely, ML was just being comical. He was joking I know it.
    B.R. i’m gonna assume that was a mistake, not that its any concern what you like to watch…


  803. abagond is ML a troll or was he really posting from europe?? cuz if he was then that’s sad.


  804. Peanut……..I would absolutly never ever in my life take a peek at…..porn hub dot com……..


  805. Very interesting.Hey B.R., What do you really think ? I think this guy may not be telling the truth. My personal conclusion is that ML might be split personality bound or better yet, Cybil impounded on a mental level. Amazingly descriptive. I am thinking back now to see if I can remember anyone in my past who reminds me of him. Yes I do remember now. ML’s description may not be as bizarre as I first thought. A long time ago I had the strange experience of being involved with a woman who acted in a very similar way. She was extremely sexually arousing. The down side was that sex became like an addictive drug to her. Unfortunately her excelerated behavior lead to an early grave. She seeked professional help but could not overcome the impulse to seek more dangerous levels of sexual excitment peeks. She once told me that she needed to act out all of her secret desires. She could not help herself. Arguing and fighting really turned her on. It always lead to makeup sex. About a year after concluding this relationship, I suddenly found myself attracted to a woman with a similar taste but a lot less aggression. I realized that I was the one that was sub-consciously seeking women like this. I was the problem. It took about 3 years for me to unlearn or reprogram myself to select far more intelligent relationships with balanced and meaningful relationships with women. I chalk off this as a learning curb experience. I can imagine how many people actually get landlocked into relationship after relationship like a never ending merry go round ride. For me it was a very scarry ride that could have led to a very dangerous behavioral pattern had I not corrected at 20 years old. Man, what a ride.


  806. Note to B.R.

    Don’t be so shocked. Believe it or not there are many people in the world who have relationships like this. Some of them you know. It may not be as bizzare as you may think. We would all be surprised at a family member who might have been in relationships like this, in fact they still are and you and I don’t even know it. If ML is real, then there must be a lot of people like him. American prisons are full of them. Thats not to say that ML is wrong as much as we now have statistics that shows some of the behaviors that certain groups exhibit a large amount of similarities in. It kind of goes with the territory. If you know what I mean. No disrespect to ML. It is what it is.


  807. Note to ML

    You were exremely honest. I respect that from a scientific point of view. Keep experimenting with your thing and keep us posted. Apparently your life is raw,real and enjoyable to you. Live and love to the fullest. Thanks for your honesty.


  808. To B.R.

    Should I consider that oop’s…… a Freudian slip ? Its ok, I do it all of the time. Thanks for the sub-conscious compliment.


  809. I told you that alot of white guys liked the bm/ww interracial porn…i told you abagond…didnt I tell you? when you gonna do the mandingo post…


  810. @I know right, they are the main audience for it I think it was something to do with the cuckold fantasy thing or some mess like that I was reading it on Racialicous I’ll try and find the link to it.


  811. Reginald, “interesting ” was an observation on what you said, which certainly needs to be digested more before I could just say what I feel about it, but, somethings ring true…

    Well, peanut , just hypotheticlay here (since of course I would never ever watch porn in my whole entire life ), if a white man likes to watch interracial sex on adult films, and , really does beleive in interracial relationships and sex, why would he limit himself to just white men with black women?

    Wouldnt only attention on white males having sex with black women be some sign of discrimination of black males having sex with white women ? If he is interested in interracial sex and adult films, wouldnt any interracial sex be a turn on?

    Why does watching a black man have sex with a white woman mean some kind of fasination with his genital? All men in porn (Ive heard) are more than averagly endowed . Wouldnt that mean that any male watching any porn would be having some kind of fascination with the male genital (by your logic)?

    Independent of porn films, I beleive in interracial relationships and sex between all sides, not just white men with black women.

    But, about that “Mandingo ” thing, I have heard the one with Terrie Reid is hot……


  812. Reginald –

    I’m not sure if you could scientifically quantify why someonoe is attracted to somebody else…

    there have been studies on waste to hip ratio, etc…, but at the end of the day, I would say we as human beings are way more complex than that.

    My wife is beautiful. I love her & I’m faithful. That doesn’t mean I don’t have wandering eyes. My eyes recognize attractiveness independent of race or body type. Beyonce, Toccara, Salma Hayek, Ildi Silva, Cindy Crawford, many of the girls from reality TV ——– On any given day, at the end of the day, I’m just a man. (all male flaws/benefits included) I stopped trying to figure it out a long time ago.


  813. B.R. –

    “all men are endowed in porn” = not true.

    Hell, this is an internet blog. As crazy as this may sound, f – it: My brother is in porn, and all types are there. If you have any questions, I can relay answers second hand based off stories he tells me. Now I’m really putting myself out there.


  814. @ColorOfLuv

    My eyes recognize attractiveness independent of race or body type. Beyonce, Toccara, Salma Hayek, Ildi Silva, Cindy Crawford, many of the girls from reality TV ——– On any given day, at the end of the day, I’m just a man.

    Hmmm…. I am not sure if that’s the same thinhg. Don’t get me wrong, but Beyonce, Toccara and Salma Hayek are not real. I mean, of course they are real, for their friends and family, but for us ordinary people, they are fiction. It’s NOT the same as flirting with a co-worker or having “wandering eyes” for women you really know.

    What I’m saying is, I don’t see the first thing (celebrities) as infidelity. Nor I see enjoying porn as infidelity. It’s simply not real.

    But having sexual thoughts about the real people, people you know… Well, that’s another thing.

    As for porn, I don’t find it disgusting. I just hate the industry behind it. But now when I think about it, I don’t remember I ever watched an interracial porn movie.


  815. @ Mira –

    You said, “But having sexual thoughts about the real people, people you know… Well, that’s another thing.”

    Don’t want to burst your bubble, but that is why “betrayal and divorce exist”. People do “covet their neigbors wives”. Or in most cases, their co-workers nowadays. But that is what trust is all about. Also, I disagree with you in that all threee fo those women are very real, and you can go to your local grocery store ( at least here in Miami ) and find womend VERY SIMILAR to the makes & models above. (Admittedly, the exact opposite would be true if I was in a small rural mid-Amercian town.)


  816. I know relationship problems exist, I just wanted to point out it’s not the same if someone thinks a celebrity is sexy and if said someone thinks a co-worker is. At least, it’s not the same for me.

    As for Salma and Beyonce, unless you (general you) really meet them, well, they are not real, they are fiction. If you start flirting with real women who look like them… Well, that could be a problem.


  817. ml, you wrote:

    One night I was insanely wasted in a bar in the hart of Africa. I do not remember in details, but the next day I wake up whit a black African single mum from Burundi…

    Excellent piece of fiction. I’m impressed.


  818. I stand corrected, Color, I have plenty of questions….

    Does he know Marie Luv?

    Just tell me everything you know he knows…..


  819. @B.R.

    I would have to ask him. He knows A LOT of people but has recently left the business. It is not as glamorous or rewarding as many people think. He first broke into the business via Bang Bros. You will see him in most “searches” on the internet.


  820. i don’t know who any of these people yall have mentioned are…I might be old-fashioned, but I really don’t like the idea of the porn industry.


  821. if you enjoy bm/ww porn or bw/wm porn or bm/wm porn, that is your right. The reason I think its about the fascination w/ black male genitalia is because everytime a bw/wm interracial sex question comes up, some white guy will inevitably start talking about bm penis size. Now i’ve always found this odd and i know i’m not the only bw who feels this way because what does a black man’s private have to do with a white guy having sex w/ a bw? WHy even bring it up unless a. you’re intimidated sexually and don’t feel you can perform or b.) you’re fascinated/obsessed with black male genitalia for some reason unbeknownst to me


  822. LMAO co-sign Peanut… I believe we said something similar on the Roissy post.

    Part of the reason SOME black women view white men as “weak” or closet homos is because more than a few have this weird borderline obsessive fascination with the black male penis.

    Im not interested in any man, black or white, how is intimidated or fascinated by penises. The gays and bisexuals can have him.


  823. i actually had some friends of mine who are white, tell me that i shouldnt wait to have sex because if i married a bm, then it would be extra painful because bm were the biggest. when i corrected them & told them this is a stereotype, they insisted on correcting me and explaining the p*nis hierarchy that says that bm are the biggest, wm in the middle & asian men smallest. THEY tried to school ME on this, i found it funny.


  824. Peanut, and, Y hahahahah Im laughing too, and , beleive me, I would watch out for a man with a fetish about penis size….

    I just think , since I never saw porn in my life…its time for me to find out about it…….

    Ok OK, Im teasing….I like adult films , I like interracial adult films , but, definitly not exclusivly , and, if you ask me, it sounds funny if someone would like interracial with only black women and white men and not accept or like black men with white women , or asian men and women , or hispanic etc.

    This penis envy thing is strange to me, its definitly not my bag…dont they have gay adult films for that?

    size , shmize, there is a lot more to sex than just genital size

    Well color, I guess I could start by asking, arnt the men under contract to have to use viagra so they have a better chance of meeting up to standards?

    Im also curious if most of those women also do call girl work or if they only do film?

    Where Im at now in life, I love to intake all the sensuality on the beach and adult film sexuality I like to see , to build a very powerful sexual fire I can bring all to my wife…that is really where its at for me…..


  825. and, if you ask me, it sounds funny if someone would like interracial with only black women and white men and not accept or like black men with white women

    Actually, that sounds logical to me. I mean, if you are a white guy who is into interracial porn, it is logical to like white men / black women combination more than the others, because you can imagine you’re the white man in question having sex with a black woman. I thought it’s the point of it, of the fantasy I mean, to picture yourself as one of the actors.

    I don’t mean on porn only. Let’s face it: we all want to see people who look like us in the movies. We want to watch heroes who are like us because we want to identify ourselves. It’s part of the magic. White heterosexual males got this in practically every mainstream movie. It is logical for the rest of the people to want that too. It is the same when it comes to couples in movies. You always want that someone hot is paired with someone who looks like you.

    I guess I never thought it’s different with porn. And yes, I am aware of the main (and only) reason people watch porn. But still, I thought like I wrote above.


  826. B.R. dont get me wrong if you like IR porn that is fine! IR sex is no different than same race sex. But the racist connotations that some people put in IR porn and black male sexuality is off putting to say the least.


  827. Yes Mira you are right. I think its fine for white men to favor porn that has white male leads. They can picture themselves acting out the fantasy. However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist.


  828. However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist.

    Of course.


  829. i agree it is racist to be cool w/ wm/bw and not okay with bm/ww, but in my experience, some wm are overly fascinated with it…tha’ts also weird


  830. A bit of history about how it all started. During the african slave trade the youngest and tallest and largest males and females brought the highest prices on the slave market. Many were bought to the United States in the early 1500’s and sold at very high prices. Some of the plantations started breeding farms and forced many of these slaves to procreate which created big strong muscular slave offspring. In a very short time other plantations used the same breeding techniques and before long many plantations had forced breeded thousands of these new Mandingo type strong men and women. This procedure became very popular among many plantations in the south. This went on for at least 3 more centuries. Some plantations held contest to show off their largest and strongest male and female slaves. At the same time plantation owners became paranoid about what they had created and many tried to reverse the process and found it to be almost impossible to undo what was already done. By the turn of the 19th century many of the plantations slaves had off spring with these Super bred slaves and the rest is history.This type of breeding technique was first recorded to be used during early Eutruscan and Greek civilizations and caught on like wildfire throughout many of the ancient B yzantine empires along with many of the Middle Eastern countries as well going all the way back about 10,000 years. The Romans did everything they could to refine its use. Well all know how prosperious the Romans were. Slavery was the backbone of their fluorishing economy. Over the last two thousand years most of Europe, Indonesia and North and South America have either been slaves themselves or relatives to family members that were taken into slavery. No one was immune to its savage grip. We in our most civilized and respected exterior wear have developed such strange taste for such animal like behavior. Ponder what actually lies in the hearts of each of us. Look deep down inside of our imperfect souls. What other species do you know of could possibly justify such barbaric and self destructive behavior. None but us. Now that I have helped you look at the ground level of your souls. Step into the elevator and plummet into the very depths of what we are actually capable of. As the door opens a light shines eternally bright in the distance of what looks like the true basement of your heart. Step out and see a reflection of yourself in the event horizon of all of us in the oneness of our selves. None stands alone as your vision clears see the truth. See yourself in all of your brilliance and your shame. Judge not for what you see is in all of our DNA. We are the best and the worst of every strand. What say you all ?


  831. Y sais ” However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist”

    peanut “i agree it is racist to be cool w/ wm/bw and not okay with bm/ww, but in my experience, some wm are overly fascinated with it…tha’ts also weird ”

    yes, I agree, if I beleive in IR relationships , to not beleive in black men with white women, in relationships and with sex in them, would be hypocritical

    Mira, there are adult films that have BW/WM , that turn me on , and could have this identity and familiarity, but, I relate to black males also. And , many young white boys , including myself, did or do have black male athletes as role models , and, my major music idols and mentors have been black males, along with black females, so , I dont filter that out in adult films.

    And, if there are white males sitting there, over fascinated with BM genitilia, that does sound strange to me also, I just cant relate , yet, Im sure it exists.

    I would think the general reaction of prejudiced white males, at the thought of black men having sex with white women, would be revulsion and hate and they wouldnt want to see it…or see it with a lot of hate

    Reginald, I dont know what to say….but, keep posting , Im listening…


  832. Reply
    Color of LUV

    As a matter of fact there are many social experiments that have been thoroughly researched on clinically verified and documented cases. Masters and Johnsons covered this subject with great success. I found some of it to be rather insightful. Recently scientist have discovered even more amazing data. Apparently their is a very good reason why relationships change between 2 people that are overwhelmingy head over heals in love with each other. In Copenhagen scientist found that after about 2 years the endorphins in the human brain changes in both partners. When this happens one or both of the involved subjects can no longer stimulate the other partners endorphins to the same level of chemical intensity as was observed in the very beginning of the relationship. Results, fifty percent of the relationships that were documented started to decline and wither. The other fifty percent evolve into some other levels of compromised aggrements. Although most people do get to experience these results, very few are able to explain exactly what happened to their failed relationships. Imagine how well people might be able to digest that they were jilted in love because these endorphins were on the decline. Instead of thinking about what they thought that they did wrong ?How many lives could we save from jumping off of bridges? We are starting to find more and more data that leads us to understand that chemical dynamics in the brain plays a very important part in the human romance and mating sequence. I salute the men and women that are trying to find some of the answers to solving and maybe understanding this phenomena called human relationships between men and women. Yes, the research that is being done will help studies like Masters and Johnsons to explain far more intricate details and facts about the birds and the bee’s and other as yet unknown factors. Talk at you latter.


  833. May I suggest white guilt as a factor?

    What I’m saying is, maybe whites see white on black porn as inappropriate because of the history. They know what whites did to black slave women was bad. Maybe their guilt prevents them to fully enjoy white on black porn?

    … But the guilt doesn’t stop them in making racist porn with black men and white women?

    Just a thought.


  834. Mira, Im not sure its guilt , and, Im not sure if the whites who think “white on black porn” as inapropriate are the ones who make the films.

    I jut think once they get the gut leval prejudice and hate going, these prejudice white males have the biggest hate and fear of black men having sex with “their” white women.

    I think there are a range of differant reasons that white men might not like or like interracial adult films.

    There are the penis envy people Peanut refers to, and you, Mira , refferred to in your country…

    There are the white people that just apreciete interracial adult films

    there are white people who arnt consumed with hate but just arnt atracted to interracial adult films

    and the white klanners who are concumed with hate and would be revulsed to watch interracial adult films

    and then there are the white people consumed with making money and who make the adult films who try to cover every angle and fetish out there to get some cash


  835. Oh, well, that was just an idea…

    And I must say I am not quite sure if men in my country have penis envy (what exactly is penis envy?), because, like I said, they all believe they are the ones who have biggest, and see this thing as a very, very positive “trait”. None of them would believe me if I said the stereotype was harmful towards black people, if you ask them, that is the most positive thing someone can say about a man. No kidding. Not intelligence or any other really important thing. Now, I am not saying guys here want to hear they are dumb or something, and yes, I do believe, deep inside, they would prefer to be seen as intelligent than “biggus dickus”, but let’s just say that is… deep inside. Most of them would take “big penis” as a much better compliment than “you’re intelligent”.


  836. Thanks B.R.

    You and Mira continue to engage concepts and ideas about this very important issue. This is important. What you both are saying bares witness to the thoughts of many. We are all the sum total of everything that we think. Most of mankinds challenges have been repaired or conquered through such useful mediums. As Bundini Brown said to Muhamed Ali as he stepped up into the boxing ring in the Thrilla in Manila Fight between Ali and Frazier “Rumble young man rumble”


  837. BR, you seem like youd like bm/aw porn…


  838. , they should start making more of those type of adult films as im sure it would be a hit w/ the white men


  839. I’m addicted to female oriented porn, shopping!


  840. Going shopping is the female version of porn!


  841. i bet steve sailer watches aw/bm porn, he probably loves it…


  842. Going shopping is the female version of porn!

    I’ve seen far too many women drooling over hot shirtless photos of their favorite celebs to agree.


  843. LMAO @ Peanut


  844. Reply to
    Lynn-Gazis-Sax

    You just hit the nail on the head. Your comment about “Favorite Celebs” is right on the money. I will respond more in depth later. Thanks for your honesty.


  845. Double Reply to Lynn-Gazis-Sax

    Please allow me to quote you. “I’ve seen far too many women drooling over hot shirtless photos of their favorite celebs to agree. I think 2 birds were killed with one stone with this statement. Here is what I mean. As we all know, male celeb’s image wise usually are seen as successful and handsome. Lets call them Supreme Alpha Males. Women and Men usually try to select Alpha people. We all tend to select people that are either on our level or higher, status wise. This often is the case. Since this factor seems to be well adhered to, it would be fair to say that we all share this mind set. However there are some exceptions to the general rule. Normally men nor women select below their station in life. People always try to select up. Its in our nature. We carry these social habits with us everywhere. At our work places the rule still applies. In fact the higher up the corporate ladder we progress, the more evident it becomes. There needs to be some form of rules to keep everything balanced in any society. Living life is an artistic pursuit of sorts. When we are in our teens, we tend to select on a more emotional level. When we get into our 20’s we select a little better. In our 30’s is when we find out just how dumb we were about life and select a lot better etc… Through all of our experiences good and bad If we pay attention something very profound happens. We learn that the world actually yields its greatest rewards to the smartest people. Those are the rules. No exceptions. Black, White, Yellow, Brown it makes no difference. The New Alpha People are the smartest. If race, religion, social standing can be over come then the smartest people will certainly find a way. Abagond asked the question. Are you all intelligent enough to give the correct answer ? The Alpha People already know the answer. I will ask it again. Why do so few white men marry black women ? Understand that penis questions have absolutely nothing to do with the true answer. The truth will set all of you free. Be well. Seek knowledge.


  846. If you really believe that then you have been brain washed by mainstream media like everyone else that seen non stop coverage of black celebrity men with white women. That’s what they’d like you to believe but it is not a true reality. If white men cared so much about what race their children are, then why did they spend so much time during slavery having sex with their black slaves? And they sure as hell weren’t pulling out.

    Yeah okay, where do you think Mulattos come from? You don’t know anything about race!

    If anyone has any doubts about white men and black women then check this out. There is a black woman in the German royal family. Yeah they look like they really care alright! Only in your ignorant mind!


  847. Ok Sioux. Its going to be alright. I think.


  848. Ok Sioux. That was pretty good. Now lets bring it home. I watched your youtube presentation. It was good. What I noticed most of all was that most were celebrities and already accomplished business mogols. And thats ok also. They are the Alpha People I spoke of. They represent about 1 or 2 percent of the entertainment population. And about 000.1 percent of the business world. What about the rest of the world. The other 98% of us. Your attempt at balancing the scales of equality reminds me of white americans attempt to notify african americans of how far they have come by using Shaq and the NFL Stars along with Baseball Super Stars to finalize their argument that african americans are much better off then they think they are. Good try. The fact still remains that african americans still have one the highest rates of social and economic malfunction not only in america but also around the world. Let me ask you something Sioux? Why is it so easy to buy a Smith&Wesson pistol or any automatic weapon up to and including military weapons from around the world on any city corner out of the back trunk of a gun dealers car in any state in america ? Do you think that is some kind of social oversight. I don’t think so. Is there a reason that the american prison system has a 75% african american presence ? Is it because blacks are more prone to commit crimes? I don’t think so. Many things unseen and unheard are working against all people of color all around the world. Do you think the entire African Continent is constantly being encouraged to keep their little small countrys seperate from other small countries on the same continent by selling all of their dictators the same kinds of weapons making sure that they continue to fight border wars and occasional genicide cleansing. Do you really think that it is an accident ? I don’t think so. When I said that people need to be smarter, I meant all people not just some. Alpha People already understand this simple truth which is why it is ao hard to find them in the aformentioned situations. Not just 1 or 2 percent either. I meant 100% of all of the people in the world. We all grow and learn through debate. Prosperity and good health to all.


  849. “f white men cared so much about what race their children are, then why did they spend so much time during slavery having sex with their black slaves? ”

    oh my, oh my my my….most of those white men did NOT claim their mixed children. Often they were sold away or at the most allowed to work and labor as SLAVES in the big house and that is if these white men were nice. They cared very much about the color of their childrens’ skin that is why they hesistated to claim their mulatto offspring. They raped or “slept with,” (for those who have issues w/ the word) their slaves for many reasons. sometimes it was to humilate/humble the slave, sometimes it was due to attraction ,sometimes due to power…but mostly just because they could… it wasn’t just in america this happened but all over the world nad the trend was pretty consistent that white men ABANDONED their mixed children because they were mixed. so they did care about color. That is why we haev mixed blacks to this day who do not know they are mixed because all they ever could claim was black because their white side wasn’t claiming them. That is why we have creoles/metis and brazilians who are visibly mixed claiming themselves as black.


  850. i’m not critcizing anyone, but I will never understand why some people take pride in the fact that some white males abused their black slaves and forced them to bear their children just to increase the slave population or service their own ego. If you’ve read through slave narratives you’ll know there is NOTHING cute about what was going on MOST of the time in sexual relationships between slave masters/overseers and their slaves and even up until Jim Crow ended in the south.
    Have you ever heard of Celia, a slave. She was sexually abused again and again and again for years by her master Newsome. She had three children by the time she was 18 and this man was atleast in his 50s. He abused her and when she defended herself she got lynched for it. How about Harriet Jacobs?? There are SO MANY stories in the narratievs about rape…so many. it was a vile thing. nothing cute about it most of the wm certainly didn’t care enough to free their mulatto slaves, so that should say something. yes…SOME of the white men grew to love and respect their female slaves and set their offspring and mother free, SOME of the sex was consensual. some of the wm tried to live w/ their black female slaves as husband and wife would, BUT MOST did not see the slaves as equal and did it because they could….nothing is glamorous about it….


  851. Co-sign Peanut

    I dont know if its an ego boost or what. It seems to me the people that get off saying this feel as to master and slave sexual relations puts them “on par” with white people.

    The black women that say this come off as desperate. Desperate to prove that white men find black women attractive.

    Makes me cringe.


  852. exactly, now I don’t believe in not-acknowledging that this type of thing did happen because we know it did and it should be remembered for what it was…but to think that wm ever actually CARED about their black mistresses by and large is just silly to me. If they cared they wouldn’t have made their own children, their flesh and blood, their slaves in the first place. That’s not even normal, that’s not even natural. It’s dysfunction at its worst and it messed up the black community. It part of the reason we have the whole light-skinned, good hair bull sh*t. It just makes me sick that white blood is put on a pedestal that much. we blacks are still dealing with the residual effects of the white massa’s indisgression to this day. we deal with it everytime we hear the phrase “good hair.”

    it also irritates me when racist whites try to romanticize the relations between black slaevs a white masters (sally hemmings…) I hate that and i also hate when this type of cruelty is denied or minimized altogether. Tell history like it is, they raped their slaves, the slaves didn’t have a choice to say no, so it was rape period. That’s my stance and its going to stay that way.


  853. also this raping didn’t end w/ slavery, but continued up until Jim Crow was removed. If you read melba patillo’s autobiography (she integrated little rock HS) she was molested and nearly RAPED by a white man the same day as Brown vs. board of education passed in congress. The wm who attacked her did it to “pay her back.”

    Lena Baker was essentially forced into sexual slavery with a wm and when he stalked her and wouldn’t leave her alone, she defended herself and received the death penalty. This type of thing had little to do w/ attraction, but just about being able to control and walk all over a bw. White men could control black people and one way to control black women was to take away something that was so prized and valued in a ww, her sexual integrity and dignity.


  854. Right on Peanut. You expressed what most people of color have been feeling in a most brilliant and artistic way. Knock down drag out was the only way to say what many people need to hear. We often forget the road that was traveled. Well now that Peanut has expressed how many people of color feel lets address some more things that bother everybody. I am going to put this out there for everyone to take a bite out of. Are you ready ? I have a question that will allow everyone to answer. As we have so diligently judged white men for their past iniquities, let us turn inward and ask ourselves this question. Why do black men make rap music that verbally degrades black women and uses all types of really nasty descriptions along with videos that advertise a black womans nature as gutteral and trashy ? The second question is What do you think white men think when they see or hear these videos. The third question is what do you think the world thinks when they see this type of depiction ? These questions were designed to make everybody think. When black women see or hear this type of intertainment, how do they feel ? Do white people think that the “N” word is being used so much that they should be able to use it ? Last but not least. Do black women think that rap music is a good vehicle for promoting their dignity and integrity ? Take a bite out of any question that you wish. Ohhhhhhhhhh its on now.


  855. Frankly I don’t give a flying crap what white men think, I really don’t.

    Nothing upsets a white man more than asking a black woman out and being told where to go. I’ve been there loads of times. It’s not about any women turning them down, there’s a racial aspect of it. Heck he’s gone out on a limb to tell you he fancies you. Naturally you should graciously accept, damn your choice!
    They don’t have the power they used to with women of color. When he’s turned down he probably wishes we still live in times he could flog, hang or rape you to put you in your place.
    Michelle Obama is a perfect example of the strong black woman they can’t touch, the vitriol heaped on her is not because of her husband’s policies. He can’t touch you so he insults you.

    The title of this post should be ‘Why so few BLACK women marry white men’
    It implies we’re all sitting around waiting for white men to choose us.
    There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men. I can’t comprehend that sort of ingrained bigotry!
    The laws may have changed, their morals certainly haven’t!


  856. Frankly I don’t give a flying crap what white men think, I really don’t.

    Neither do I. With that being said, a women can date/marry whatever man she wants. What I don’t understand is why black men of other cultures, such as black Brits, West Indians, men from the African content, Asians etc. aren’t being vetted as potential mates? I have seen some white men who fit the description you just gave and I agree, there seems to be a racial component to it, you should be grateful they asked you out.


  857. The title of this post should be ‘Why so few BLACK women marry white men’
    It implies we’re all sitting around waiting for white men to choose us.
    There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men. I can’t comprehend that sort of ingrained bigotry!

    response: yeah, we don’t need to mention names, but its amazing how some wm who are involved w/ black women still can’t see past their own bigotry…amazing


  858. Yes, it reminds me of the line “I can’t be racist, I have [insert race here] as friends, spouses, you name it.”


  859. (whew…. coming in here now, knowing that this aint me ) =”There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men”

    Well , Reginald, Ill try to tackle a couple of your questions.

    I have long had a theory that the white boys who take to rap that ,demeans black women , and women in general, are doing it as a rebellion to womens lib positions in the decade before , that started to back men in the corner and say all that was wrong with them . They see in rap, men behaving exactly the total opisite of what the womens lib said they were suposed to , and, these white boys live vicariously through that….

    I remember the debate on the Oprah show with Common, Ludicriss and some other rappers where Oprah started to get stern about what they should be saying, and, they reacted angrily as though Oprah and the other older women shouldnt be ordering them what to do.

    About white people or any one outside black people thinking they can use the n world because black rappers are, I can only say, just plain old common sence would tell anyone that no, you shouldnt use the n word if you are not black.

    Its a very simple thing that any dolt could get and I am suspect of any white boy using black rap ,and the use of the n word , as an excuse to use it.

    I never ever liked ethnic humor unless it was used by the person of that ethnicity. It always made me feel uncomfortable, any ethnic humor jokes.


  860. I found comfort in coming home to a black dad who truly understood the black experience, could relate and guide me. My best friend has a white father, deceased black mother, to say he’s clueless is putting it mildly. Again she’s been in positions where whites are having a go and her white partner is too chicken to stand up to them, easier to trivialize what she goes through than defend her.
    Ankhesen Mie was right to ask just why whites are so bloody afraid of each other??
    White men just don’t have what it takes AT ALL to understand the black experience.
    Marrying a black woman or having mixed kids gives you some visitation rights into blackness but not enough to ‘get’ it.
    The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.
    When pushed hard enough their instinct is to defend whiteness first, as some white men have illustrated on this very board.


  861. Interesting theory, and I have the same attitude as you about ethnic humor. But IMO the language of so many black rappers is simply disgusting, and while African Americans may find it more objectionable when ‘white boys’ use it, as a white person I believe its level of digust isn’t variable depending on the race of the person using it.

    However I do think an argument could be made that the language and attitudes projected through so much rap does more damage to the psyche of black children and youth when spat out by black rappers than by stupid white boys. In other words, stupid black rappers have more negative influence on black children and youth than stuipd white boys do.


  862. Reply to
    B.R. , MerriMay, kernan820

    You all responded so well that I don’t know where to start. I’ll try ladies first, ok MerriMay. Your comment about white men just don’t have what it takes to understand the black experience may very well be true. I will call your statement part of the answer to the main question being asked about “why white men don’t marry black women.” Kernan820, what you said really is to much truth for most people to come to grips with. Taking into consideration the fact that many black women just did not read my earlier comment, I find it hard to believe that more black women have not responded yet to what I said. Here is the reason why I said what I said. Many times in life we ask all kinds of questions about everything in life. This is wrong. That is wrong. We need to do something about this problem or that problem etc… Many times if we turn inward we find that the answer lies within us. If we take time to reflect inward the answer is right in front of our eyes. I suspect that the black women who did read my comment may have found themselves not wanting to comment on something that they may have sanctioned and very much approved. No matter how damaging it may be to themselves or their culture. They may find it somewhat inconvienent to chastise a behavior that they themselves have helped to perpetuate. The silence is due to guilt about a behavior that their very essence is sub-consciuosly opposed to. When a mother fails her child it eats away at her very existence. She shivers and shakes and torments about the condition of her child. When something is wrong inside of all of us these are just a few of the symptoms we all feel. Before any of us can fix something we must first identify what the problem is. African American people we know that we need to fix what is inside of us. We need to clean up our own house. There are many things wrong with our house. When will we start to see our faults and stop blaming everybody else ? A great part of our problem is our image. In the past others projected it for us and told many, many lies. Now that we are moving towards a new period of enlightenment the feasibility of our evolution will become apparent to everyone. Above all we need to stop marketing our image as anything negative. We can’t afford it. Other groups can. They can afford it. Our road is hard and tedious at times. It is because we have much to learn. We should be evolving quite rapidly now. Every seperate group will finally understand that we are all one species. All of the old ways of thinking are dyeing off like so many autumn leaves. We are arriving into a new time of oneness. It won’t be much longer before Eutopia will be upon us. Everyone try and remember that none of us are free until all of us are free.


  863. Reginald, regarding

    “Every seperate group will finally understand that we are all one species. All of the old ways of thinking are dyeing off like so many autumn leaves. We are arriving into a new time of oneness”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism


  864. Reply to B.R.
    I apologize to you for not making a reply comment about what you said. I appreciate your indepth analysis of both white boys (as you put it) and the observation of that Oprah show that questioned the validity of their impact on peoples perceptions and how they may influence them. Their reaction was interesting. As usual, you expressed it. This is what we need to hear. Salutes to you B.R. say what you mean and mean what you say. The irony of it all seems to be that we all have a direct effect on everyone and everything that we come in contact with for the duration of our lives. We can not see it now because of our primitive brains. The scientific reality is that we are connected with everything in this universe and all of the other universes throughout eternity. Everything that we do and say does have an impact on everyone and everything all of the time. Thats how reality is created. (Sorry for the scientific part) We are what we are. Draw breath and exhale truth.


  865. Merri “Marrying a black woman or having mixed kids gives you some visitation rights into blackness but not enough to ‘get’ it.
    The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.
    When pushed hard enough their instinct is to defend whiteness first, as some white men have illustrated on this very board.”

    Now I know you arnt speaking to me or for me with this statement.

    I really have no hang ups or qualms about whether Im seeing what genes in my kid.

    Ive got to deal with the fact he is bi national as well as bi racial. You think bi racial is the only problem ? Think again

    And , Im more than up to the task , I find it amusing anyone thinks they could analyse my relationship with my kid…


  866. Jesus, B.R., Merri’s black so OF COURSE she knows your kids better than you do.

    After all, she speaks Portuguese, right…?

    Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot: she just communicates with them via telepathy. [roll eyes]


  867. MerriMay,

    “…she’s been in positions where whites are having a go and her white partner is too chicken to stand up to them, easier to trivialize what she goes through than defend her.”

    That doesn’t sound like a very healthy relationship. I would ditch him if I were her.

    “White men just don’t have what it takes AT ALL to understand the black experience.”

    I guess I don’t know what the black experience is. Being black? Or being aware that you are black and the consequences of it in modern society? I see many blacks shrug off racism or be incognizant of it while it is happening. On the other hand, my SO is almost always aware of racism (even from himself). He’ll never know what it’s like to be black, but he sure has a better idea than most people.

    “The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.”

    I do think some whites worry about their genes “disappearing” with biracial children. But this is only the case if you look at color only: rarely have I seen a child that doesn’t resemble their parents/grandparents at least a bit, and that goes for mixed children as well.


  868. B.R.,

    I’ve seen biracial kids that closely resemble their white parent. Though they may not have the same coloring or hair/eye color, you can see it in the shape of their eye, facial/body structure or any other way that kids resemble their parent. I’ve seen girls with their white mother and thought ̶