Colourism, or colorism, sometimes called shadism, is where light-skinned people are seen as more beautiful or just plain better than dark-skinned ones of the same race. You see it among blacks in America, the Caribbean, Britain, Brazil and probably elsewhere. You also see it in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh where it probably goes back at least 3000 years.
This post is about the American sort.
In America anyone who looks at least part black African is considered to be “black” - the One Drop Rule. To whites the big thing is whether or not you are are white. While they may favour light-skinned blacks over dark-skinned ones, they still see both as black and all that goes with that. “Black is black”.
Blacks, on the other hand, make a much bigger deal about the different shades, even within families.
Some dark-skinned blacks think the light-skinned ones have an easier life and hate them for it – and yet wish they were more like them!
Some of the light-skinned ones, on the other hand, feel their blackness is doubted and questioned, even though they experience racism too – though, yes, some are glad they are not so dark and may even look down on those who are!
All this is an effect of white thinking on black people: white is good, black is bad and therefore light skin is better than dark skin. It is a part of black-on-black racism.
On one level everyone knows light-skinned people are no better than dark-skinned people. But at another level people believe what they have been told since they were children in a thousand ways: that light skin is better.
And, yes, in some ways light skin is better:
- Studies show that light-skinned blacks have more education and make more money. Some say this goes all the way back to slave days when light-skinned blacks worked as house slaves - because they were often the master’s children – while dark-skinned ones were field slaves.
- Many black men prefer women with light skin and “good hair” over dark skin and natural hair, despite their lip service to black beauty. Thus the phrase, “You’re pretty for a dark-skinned girl.” Light-skinned women find themselves hated by dark-skinned women.
There has always been black men who truly love natural black beauty, all of it, over white beauty, even before the 1960s and the whole “Black is beautiful” thing. But, both then and now, they seem to be outnumbered by black men who prefer whiter-looking women.
But keep in mind that colourism can work both ways: sometimes light-skinned blacks are picked on growing up, being told that they are not “black enough”.
So how light is light? The most famous test is the brown paper bag test. In the early 1900s it was used to keep anyone darker than a paper bag out of paper bag parties.
But in practice it is not so simple. What is dark in Louisiana, for example, can be considered light in Georgia.
See also:
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 16:23:25
Good post!
I have a few questions:
But do you think that whites actually favor “light skinned” blacks or are just less threatned by them?
How do they determine how much money and education blacks of different hues make? Who’s “light” and who’s “dark”? As I said in a previous post on this site, most blacks are in the medium-brown/dark-brown range, so how does that gets determined in a unbiased way?
Same thing with black male “preferences”, since most black women don’t look “white-ish”, how far would that “liking” go? And do most men have that much leeway in the women they date?
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 16:37:31
Also, Abagond, the defintion of colorism is half-incorrect:
“Colorism is a form of discrimination in which human beings are accorded differing social and treatment based on skin color.”
It goes both ways, in terms, of who’s doing the discrimination and who’s getting discriminated. One famous case in Louisana back in the mid ’80s saw a “darker skinned” black female supervisor discriminating against a “lighter skinned” employee.
—-
I’m curious to see your answers to the questions I posted in post #1. Great insight!
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 22:38:48
Great post— Let’s speak honestly.
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 23:24:07
I am glad both of you like it – I knew you two would be the hardest critics among my delurked readers.
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 23:25:06
I do not know where those studies draw the line between light and dark skin. Good point.
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 23:27:23
I said that whites “favour” light-skinned blacks because studies show that they are more likely to be hired – even when they have less education and experience than dark-skinned blacks!!! If that is not favouring, then nothing is.
Sat 23 Aug 2008 at 23:32:30
I said black men “prefer” light-skinned women. Who they wind up being with is a whole other story. Just because I think Beyonce is beautiful does not mean my wife is that light. It does not work out like that.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 01:00:33
In general, the more you are like middle-class white people – in your looks, your dress, your outlook, your education, etc – the more comfortable they will be with you. So, yes, that gives light-skinned blacks a built-in advantage.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 03:13:37
Good points, Abagond.
Still, I don’t fully agree with the notion of what black men “prefer”. I’m sorry, I just think statements like that are such a gross generalization. Personally, I never saw any clear “light skinned preference” with the majority of black folks I’ve ever known in terms of attraction, but then again, somewhere else it may be a different story. As long as there is one “exception”, no one can speak on what any particular group of people like.
Do most white men prefer blondes? We’ll never know. Interestingly enough, there’s been no study on that. Or how blondes and brunettes fare against other in the “real world”. Or how whites react to the differing shades of non-black minorities (East and South Asians, “Hispanics”). Don’t you think that would be a really good idea? What do you think the results would be, Aba?
Also, I agree about the built-in advantage with “light skinned blacks” in terms of making middle class whites comfortable, but don’t features and hair play a part in that, too? I mean, would a “lite and brite” black men with a broad nose and kinky hair play the same with white folks as far as comfort go?
And …that study about the hiring practices of blacks of different shades comes from an University of Georgia study a few years back. I thought it was really interesting when I first heard about it UNTIL I heard that most of the participants were young, undergrad white women. In fact, the researcher (a black UGA student) admitted that he thought the results were vaild but slightly skewered because of the actual participants.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 03:26:18
I think that when we look at the idealized woman in the media we see what most men prefer. By and large, these women are more likely to be light with European features.
I also think that the idea of a line between light and dark is too arbitrary to be bothered with. As in most things when averaged, the experiences of people on either end of the spectrum pretty much form a gradation to fill out the middle.
Nice post, especially considering that spellcheckers dont consider “colorism” to be a word!
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 03:26:57
Two more observations:
+Attitudes among black Americans about color come mostly from upbringing. Seriously. If you ever talk to any black person who has a color complex, nine times out of ten, they’ll reveal (directly or indirectly) that their feelings about color and being black comes from how they grew up. Many black folks don’t have any issues regarding color/ethnic appearance because of the way they were raised. If you have pride in being black, you don’t have those hangups. (And vice versa) Period.
+I believe that colorism, among AAs, also is mostly prevelant among many black women. The more color conscious blacks tend to be female. Perhaps, because looks factor in more heavily on women in our society than for men. If you are to a Google search on this subject among blacks (and trust me, there’s plenty of info out there), most of it pertains or is written by black women. This topic comes up quite a bit on different forums and guess who most of the commentators are?
If you say that 80%-90% of them appear to be black women, you’d be correct. It’s interesting.
Also, there’s not too much info on the net about colorism in the Latin America (which includes black people) and East & South Asian diasporas and it’s a much less fluid, more inherent concept in those parts of the globe than in black America. I wonder why it doesn’t get explored more?
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 03:58:38
Thembi,
The media shows what men “prefer”? How do you figure? Do the various men in the media indicate what women prefer? Is every man, of any ethnicity, different enough to have their own individual taste? Or are they “all” the same? How can you be so sure?
Also, most black Americans, shade-wise, are medium-brown/dark brown, so the terms “light” and “dark” are extremely subjective and relative and everyone’s not going to have the same story because of that reality alone (and as I said, upbringing has much to do with how you feel about being black in this country).
“Colorism” is less about standards of beauty (that’s individual) and more about the idealogy of privilege (”white skin” is the perceived beacon of privilege and success) and the distance or proxomity of acheiving this idea. By “prefering” light, some people who feel that they were not granted these ideas of privilege by virtue of skin feel that they are getting closer to it. It’s all psychological and very complex.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 22:12:45
I agree that most colourism has roots in childhood and does not affect everyone. It makes sense it might affect women more.
But I think you can be proud to be black and yet still have mixed feelings about it.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 22:21:01
I am not saying that all black men prefer light-skinned women. I was careful to point that out in the post.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 22:29:13
Do most black men prefer light-skinned women?
I do not know of any surveys of what men like in women in terms of physical beauty, apart from those about waist-hip ratio and face symmetry. And I do not know how honest the men in such surveys would be. There is a certain political correctness – stuff you are supposed to say – on that subject.
The best proxy is the men’s magazines like Maxim, King, Smooth and Playboy. Unlike the fashion magazines, they have to know what their male readership like in women or lose out to their rivals. Men are not buying these magazines for the articles.
Based on that it seems that white men prefer blondes with thin bodies and big breasts, like Pamela Anderson. And for black men it is light-skinned women with long hair and a big behind: Esther Baxter, Melyssa Ford, Vida Guerra, etc.
This is not just what some editors think. Black Men magazine did start out that way – what the editors thought – but then they found their sales suffering. After trying many kinds of women, they found what sort of black woman does best in all parts of Black America – the Melyssa Ford sort:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/melyssa-ford/
That does not mean that there are not black men who like dark-skinned women or thin women or whatever. Of course there are. Nor is the standard of beauty the same everywhere either. What most black men like in New York is not necessarily what they like in Miami, etc.
More on Black Men magazine and its women:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/black-men-magazine/
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 22:56:21
Right, it is not just skin colour by itself – hair and face matter too. The whiter-looking the better.
Sun 24 Aug 2008 at 23:02:36
Colourism does seem to be more ingrained in South Asia. My friends from there take it for granted and seem to think it is just part of human nature.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 01:21:17
Interesting point about mens magazines.
Consider this:
Angel Lola Luv, Buffie The Body, Esther Baxter have both won XXL’s “Eye Candy of The Year”.
Ki Toy Johnson won Vibe Magazine’s Video Vixen of The Year (beating out the aforementioned Guerra).
Bria Myles, is the #1 “hottie” on the heavily black-male-read hiphopdx.com.
All of these ladies are buxom, shapely women with huge asses who got their start in the hip hop modeling .
And they’re all far from “light skinned”.
Esther Baxter is “light skinned”??? See, how subjective those terms are?
Check this out: http://www.xxlmag.com/EyeCandy/
There’s enough variety among those women that one can’t say that a certain “preference” is being propogated. I’m just using that page as an example, not as a sole indicator.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 01:42:52
Yeah, the triple combo of skin/hair/features, all more European-leaning, can defintely alter perceptions.
Yet, most blacks who would be described as “light skinned”- which to me would be anyone who’s pale/depigmentated or tannish or beige-toned or yellow-tinted- have the same altered/diluted West and Central African features (which are diverse in themselves) and differing variations of kinky/curly hair that the remaning overwhelimg majority of blacks have. The “near white” types are a smallish minority.
So, how far would it go? I mean, with all of the “minority” groups in the U.S. Blacks would last in line in looking “close to white”. Lots of East Asians and many European-descented Latin American types would be the ones who look closest to whites phenotypically.
For perspective, here’s how the top black executives in the U.S. look:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/1813867568_d567e9f92f_o.jpg
The lightning is iffy but only two of those execs could be described as “light” and feature-wise, West Africa is defintely in the house! What do you think?
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 01:44:20
And yes, standards of beauty are extremely fluid. That was the point I was trying to make in previous posts in this thread. I know many black and white men who pass on Melyssa Ford, I’d be one of them. In fact, most of the comments on the ‘net that I’ve read about her and some of the other video girls were mainly negative.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 02:32:16
I have done posts on many of those women and others. Here are the ten that were most visited over the past week:
1. Angel Lola Luv
2. Toccara Jones
3. Eva Pigford (Marcille)
4. Bria Myles
5. Melyssa Ford
6. Vilayna Lasalle
7. Condoleezza Rice
8. Gabrielle Union
9. Esther Baxter
10. Jill Marie Jones
I have not done one on Ki Toy Johnson yet, but she is next.
Toccara and Angel leave the rest in the dust.
You might think people have a purely political interest in Condi, but my political posts do not get that many hits!
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 03:08:04
That is interesting about black executives.
I am not pushing a light skin determinism. It matters but I do not think it is the most important thing. If being black is a 100 in terms of how it affects your life, then being light skin or not would be a 10, somewhat higher for women. Something that can easily be overridden by things like charm, intelligence, beauty, drive, education, money and just plain luck. It seemed to have mattered way more in Jim Crow days.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 06:21:06
In response to comment #22 …you hit the nail right on the head. The issue of color with AAs is one that should be put in its proper context: something that shouldn’t be made too much out of yet something that shouldn’t be too easily dismissed either.
And all of the women in the top 10 most searched are FINE. Hell, Condi ain’t too bad herself. It’s that flip hairdo that gets in the way of her “sexiness”. LOL.
Sat 30 Aug 2008 at 20:05:29
That video was……..wild? Any who, it reminded me of what I heard yesterday in class with one of the vet students, telling someone they had “good hair”. I would say I was suprised but being that it’s quite common to hear, I’m not.
Sun 31 Aug 2008 at 10:34:44
It is amazing that people still say that kind of stuff with a straight face.
Tue 2 Sep 2008 at 05:17:24
I’m kind of interested in why you threw Liberia into the mix about counties where blacks prefer lighter skin. I’m Liberian, but I grew up in America so I’m mostly aware of the American viewpoint. Still, it threw me. I didn’t think skin color was a big deal in Liberia, at least among my family it’s not. Some of us are very dark, others very light.
Tue 2 Sep 2008 at 07:48:44
Yeah, half of my family is from Ghana and skin color never came up. Very rarely. If anything, darker tones were looked at favorably. But then again, “colorism” does not refer to “color preferences” but assigning different social positions and treatment upon folks based on shade/color of skin.
Tue 2 Sep 2008 at 11:28:16
I threw in Liberia because from what I read American blacks went back to Liberia in the 1800s and set themselves up as the ruling class. Since they were part white that made having light skin a value thing in society. But maybe it is not that way any more?
Wed 3 Sep 2008 at 02:41:42
Colourism isn’t a big deal in Liberian society. And although the Americo-Liberians set themselves up as a ruling class for the first hundred or so years that Liberia was a country,and some of them treated the native Liberians badly, it became less and less of an issue because the Americo-Liberians intermarried with the native Liberians. I’m a product of that actually. The real undercurrent issue in Liberia was tribalism, “Who’s from this tribe, who’s from that tribe?” And even that wasn’t the reason of the first coup in Liberia or the civil war. Apparently, when America aids a country it has a lot of hang ups about what the country can and can’t do, and the president at the time got fed up and started to open the doors for Russia, and Cuba, and Libya to come in. America doesn’t like that, this is during the cold war era, and the president is apparently killed by the CIA. Unfortunately no one foresaw that an illiterate soldier would try to take the place as ruler of the country and it all goes downhill from that. You can’t really find all this information in the news or in history books so I got it all from my mom, who witnessed these events. Sorry if it’s sketchy
Thu 4 Sep 2008 at 00:02:25
Wow, thanks. I removed Liberia from the post.
Sat 18 Oct 2008 at 23:45:17
funny thing is. “MELYSSA FORD” was the hottest thing smoking in 2004. plus if you saw how “LIGHT” she was. in her “ssx” tribute issue. you might “STEP IN THE NAME OF LOVE”
Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 05:37:33
This post has a euro-centric slant. Dark skinned Blacks don’t hate lighter skinned Blacks. (funny that you stated that opinion and didn’t consider the reverse) What you will find in SOME (not all) light skinned Blacks is an extreme disgust and self hatred of very dark people, especially women.
its seems that when ever a person speaks up against injustice the party that benefits from that inequity calls them “jealous, envious or a hater”. The pattern is clear. This is why White supremacy has worked for so many centuries, it was designed to function in societies and communities where there are few or no Whites.
White Supremacy has devastated our people for centuries and its a disgrace that Blacks adhere to and perpetuate this system. We do need to take responsibility for that fact. We didn’t give birth to these ideas but we do need to assassinate them.
Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 06:36:04
What I said was:
Some dark-skinned blacks think the light-skinned ones have an easier life and hate them for it – and yet wish they were more like them!
Notice the word “some” at the beginning. And notice that the hatred in this case is envy or resentment, not hatred for them as people.
Good point that colourism grew out of the white need to divide and conquer blacks. It makes sense.
Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 14:03:03
Well, Aba, other than a slavery-derived tactic to divide & conquer blacks, where else did you think of the concept of color-coding and colorism (in a western black context) came from?
Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 14:12:23
Everyone’s experiences are different. Yet, I don’t think there’s any true “hatred” with it comes to the color-coding that’s practiced among many blacks in the western world. As Aba says, there’s feelings of envy and resentment on the part of some. Maybe a sense of authenticity and/or superority on the part of others. But “hatred”? Too strong of a word.
Also, Aba, like many who cover this very complex and contradicitory topic (in it’s western black context), you neglect the mention the anti-light prejudices that leave as much of a powerful impression as the stereotypical anti-dark ones. I’ve heard the personal ancedotes of countless “light” black people who’ve had brushes with colorism and very few of these people have positive stories in regards to it.
“Light” black people are in the minority. So, that makes “them” a minority within a minority thus far more likely to encounter instances of their skin shade becoming political than your typical black person. Makes sense?
Sat 13 Dec 2008 at 20:37:36
All of this light skin vs. dark skin has seriously got to stop. It’s insane. Both are still black.
Mon 15 Dec 2008 at 05:39:06
medina & mynameismyname: Good point, this article leaves out that part, that colourism works both ways, not just against those who are dark-skinned.
Mon 15 Dec 2008 at 05:42:41
mynameismyname: colourism does not have to be something intended by slavemasters. It could have risen by the mere fact that slavemasters would tend to favour those slaves who were their blood relations: The whole house slave/field slave thing. (But how anyone could stand to see their own sons and daughters made into slaves is beyond me. What must whites think about blackness to be able to do that?)
Wed 17 Dec 2008 at 20:56:44
I think this post is innacurate. I am guessing it was written by a dark-skinned black woman that feels insecure. I often see this, “Black men like light skinned women better”, but as a black man, with many black man-friends, I have neither seen or heard this preference for light skinned women. I mean I have heard maybe one brother mention something about skin color, but besides that, never. I have also never known a dark skinned black woman, that was TRULY attractive (not just attractive in her own mind), that was passed up just for being dark skinned. Beautiful is beautiful, and I think that sometimes dark skinned black women who may not be considered beautiful use this whole “black men like light skin” myth as a reason for why they are overlooked. What is the unnattractive light skinned girl going to say? That she’s overlooked because she’s too light?
Wed 17 Dec 2008 at 22:05:50
I never thought of it that way, but, yes, most people who say “black men like light-skinned women” are black women.
Wed 17 Dec 2008 at 23:32:26
It’s funny, my mother used to get hit on (and still does) by WEALTHY men, black and white, ALL THE TIME. When I was younger, it would get so bad that I would often pose as her brother (I’m way taller than she).
My mother is hardly “light skinned”.
Neither are the great majority of black women I have ever known. Few of them have had problems with getting men. Now, they may not have always attracted or dated the RIGHT man but they had no problems fielding attention.
The women who say that men don’t like them because of a physical attribute are probably hung up and have a complex about that attribute themselves. i.e. “No one wants me because I’m fat!”. Those people have issues with their weight and they project onto others. And that turns people away. No one wants someone who doesn’t have much pride about themselves.
And I’m with Michael, it’s rare that I’ve heard any black guy or any guy for that matter state or demonstrate a shade preference when it came to women. Men don’t have that much leeway when it comes to women. And plus, we’re naturally less picky.
Wed 17 Dec 2008 at 23:45:45
There are a few black men who chase after light-skinned women, just like there are those who chase after white women (Sargent Willie Pete, anyone?). But by and large most are not like that. At least not in my experience.
In fact, I was on http://whodatedwho.com the other day and what struck me is how many of the black male celebrities dated women noticeably lighter than themselves. Like Jay-Z and John Legend. It seemed strange because the scale of it did not match anything in my experience.
Thu 19 Feb 2009 at 03:48:02
I really hate that I caught this post so late. I hope everyone is still reading it.
I am a dark skinned woman from the south and I will admit that I have had problems with how I believe men see my skin color. I consider myself an attractive woman and I have never had problems dating. I have even had heated discussions with my significant other (who is also dark skinned) about this subject.
I would have to agree with mynameismyname that this issue is something that shouldn’t be made too much out of yet something that shouldn’t be too easily dismissed either.
Having a complex about my color (how most AA’s explain it) causes me to approach the topic in a very emotional way and comments like #39 are basically telling women like me to ignore it and get over it. I understand that a healthy self esteem is very attractive so I will agree that any woman dealing with this particular issue should work towards maturing themselves by loving themselves.
However, when we as AA’s are faced with this issue in our daily lifes we should do are part to extiguish it by elimnating phrases like good hair to describe fine hair. We should carefully consider our actions not just for the bitter black woman, but for the beautiful black little girls who will be faced with the ignorance of their peers and the rejection of the mass media.
My fiance help me to understand that men are not to picky about who they date ( as long as it looks good). But I helped him to pay more attention to what defines beauty and how slavery has played a major part in what we say is beautiful, what is just attractive, and what is unattractive. I told him to imagine a fair skinned young woman that we know that he says is attractive. Then i told him to close his eyes and imagine her with dark skin. A distasteful frown appeared on his face.
The difference does exist, and unless you are a dark skinned black woman or someone who looks for it, you won’t see it. It doesn’t happen to you it happens to us.
Thu 19 Feb 2009 at 17:40:53
Good point: dark-skinned black women would be in the best position to know.
On the other hand, I do think some women see colourism where there is none because it has become how they look at the world.
For example, the other day I said I thought Alek Wek was ugly. One commenter immediately assumed it was because she was dark-skinned. But it was not that at all: it was her eyes.
Fri 17 Apr 2009 at 14:11:48
Moved here from a different thread.
“For the record, trust, there’s many white women who would want to fight you for dating a white man who they find desirable”
Actually, the statement should read: “there’s many WOMEN who would want to fight you for dating a MAN who they find desirable”. Women can get jealous, to put it lightly.
With black women I think the general feelings of jealousy get mixed up with race and amplified.
Have you seen “Something New”? There’s that seen where Sanaa runs into her ex (who’s white) at a wedding and he’s there with his white ex-girlfriend. She gets all pissed off and says, “I can’t believe he dumped me for a white woman!” and her friend points out, “Kenya, he IS WHITE. And you dumped him.”
I had to admit, that scene cracked me up because I’VE SO BEEN THERE. It is like a double slap in the face to be dumped for a white woman, even if the guy is white. It’s racist and irrational (after all, why should it matter?), but I can’t help it. And I think that most black women feel that way. And I don’t think it’s limited to black women.
A mixed-race (German/Pakistani) friend of mine got dumped by a white guy once. And she called me to complain. And she made the point that she was especially aggrieved because “and she’s BLOND!”
Okay. It’s colorism. It’s irrational. But there it is.
Fri 17 Apr 2009 at 16:15:43
Good thread! Interesting topic.
“Good point that colourism grew out of the white need to divide and conquer blacks. It makes sense.”
Definitely. I don’t know if it was conscious but it makes sense that white people would surround themselves with people who were “more like themselves”; they found them more trustworthy. And they were right. The house-slaves (especially the blood relatives) were usually the last people to defect and often stymied slave revolts. That’s one of the reasons that they were so hated by the field slaves; their loyalties were divided.
White people still do this today. It’s important that black people stick together and don’t let themselves be divided into color-groups like cattle. And for those mixed-race people who think they are white: I’m with Halle Berry on this one. You’re black. Get over it.
As a light-skinned, mixed-race person it exasperates me when dark-skinned black people say “You’re not really black.” Do they not realize that there is strength in numbers?
“But how anyone could stand to see their own sons and daughters made into slaves is beyond me.”
Some just didn’t see them as people but as property. They distanced themselves emotionally from them. And they made a point not to invest in them emotionally or economically. And remember that it wasn’t only the slave-master who was sleeping with black women but often his white employees or other white men from the area. So, he might have treated them preferentially to other blacks even though they were not his progeny.
Then there were the other white fathers who made the mistake of emotionally and financially investing in their children. That didn’t always turn out well. For one, some States started to experience more and more relation-emancipation and quickly passed laws that all free black people must leave the state. Also, free black people often lived more dangerous lives as being nobody’s property also meant being completely unprotected; they still weren’t considered people. Some white men left their black mistresses and children their estates after they died. They were often murdered by their jealous white relatives.
http://www.geocities.com/robbi01/wythe.html
Another one of Jefferson’s friends who freed his family was Thomas Bell (Mary Hemmings was his mistress).
http://www.buckinghamhemmings.com/
Sat 18 Apr 2009 at 08:04:47
Wow. Thanks for the links.
Sun 3 May 2009 at 18:39:25
Good post #43. Like Tyra Banks said on her show dedicated to darker skinned women, of all races, “It’s hard to see yourself as beautiful when society tells you your not”. Even Tyra has said in the fashion industry and in the media darker skin women (whether they be Black, Latino, Indian, etc..) are not as wanted as lighter skin counter parts.
Mon 4 May 2009 at 01:13:45
I commend Tyra for what she’s trying to do with her shows on colorism yet I feel that she’s playing into the noxious idea that being “dark skinned” (which last time I checked, the vast majority of black Americans & South Asians are) is a curse.
It’s that idealogy that drives the skin color bias that persists in the cultures of many people of color.
Color consciousness is a fascinating racial topic. Yet, it must be presented from a different angle.
Mon 4 May 2009 at 01:17:30
Also, for what it’s worth, unlike South Asians, East Asians, etc., it seems the black American ideal of female beauty is of a medium-complexion. Think about it.
I remember reading one thesis on the topic of African American colorism and even the writer reached that same conclusion.
For black Americans, there is a “too light” and a “too dark”, so it makes sense that medium brown black women would be the most celebrated.
Mon 4 May 2009 at 05:27:22
“Too light”: that is interesting.
Tue 19 May 2009 at 03:05:42
.
Since someone brought up the topic of ‘house
and ‘field’ slave — I just wanted to note
that — actually — this false concept
that so many people have — that the
lighter-complexioned chattel slaves
“had it easier” or “thought they were
better” than the darker-complexioned slaves
– and / or “relaxed in the big house” while
the darker-complexioned slaves “suffered in
the fields” — is very much like the infamous
‘Willie Lynch Letter’ Hoax) all VERY MUCH AN
URBAN MYTH (and is one which, in nearly every
way that’s possible, completely defies
the true historical recorded account.
The historical record shows that
those enslaved people who were of a
lighter-complexion (i.e. mulatto-lineage)
and that were found on the continental
United States during the antebellum
(chattel slavery) era were actually treated
MUCH, MUCH WORSE than were those enslaved
people who were of a darker-complexion.
In fact, record shows that most of the White
people (specially the White women) tended to
look upon the lighter-complexioned slaves
as being mere ‘mongrels of miscegenation’
(resulting largely from the rapes caused
by overseers); in their disgust at the sight
of these slaves — insisted that they be
“banished to the fields”; and also then
purposefully reserved most of the ‘big
house’ positions (ex. mammy, cook, driver,
etc) for the darker-complexioned slaves —
who most of the White people perceived as
being “more loyal, docile, less competitive”
– and, equally important, of a skin tone
which could never cause them to be mistaken
for ‘white’ or a possible member of
the plantation owners’ own family.
And this maltreatment was generally
even much more so the case if the
lighter-complexioned enslaved person
was ’suspected’ (by a wife, sister or
daughter — who ran “the big house”,
while a ‘male’ family member ran “the
plantation”) of possibly being the
offspring of a plantation owner
(or his son, father or brother).
In addition, the few lighter-complexioned
enslaved people that were actually permitted
to do any work within the house were – as
punishment for having the lowly status of
“mongrel” and in order to make sure they
did not become “too uppity” — kept under
much more severe supervision (by both the
White women who ran the plantation household
and also by the darker-complexioned enslaved
people) and under much more severe work
detail than were most of the (more trusted)
darker-complexioned enslaved people.
Books by Deborah Gray White; Paula Giddings;
J. California Cooper; bell hooks’, etc.
expose the truth about the urban-myth and
show that the lighter slaves received NO
special treatment and were (as mere “mongrels
of miscegenation”) usually treated much
worse than were darker-complexioned slaves.
Hope this information is helpful
& that everyone has a great day.
– AP (soaptalk@hotmail.com)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MGM-Mixed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FGM-Mixed
Related Links:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/3331
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1399
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1570
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1573
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1402
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1400
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1747
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Generation-Mixed/message/1691
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ag4UceOKYaro21HdnN8w.mgjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20071103085813AAolWV5
(see ‘best answer’)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtORF66bLNbNEjhIPDWC_6MjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20071031122504AArGj8B
(see ‘best answer’)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWIRLinc/message/17634
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWIRLinc/message/17622
Wed 20 May 2009 at 04:07:36
Just where did bell hooks bring this up? I thought she was of the opinion that whites back in slave days favoured lighter-skinned blacks so that blacks would hate each other and not get along – thereby making their own position as slaveowners safer.
Fri 22 May 2009 at 15:47:23
Its kinda funny when I went traveling round Africa and Asia one of the things I noticed was that black African women and Asain women tend to be on average lighter skinned then black African and Asain men. I wonder why its not the same 4 white people
Mon 25 May 2009 at 04:00:48
It sounds like the women are trying to keep their skin lighter on purpose, though in some countries men work outside more than women do.
Wed 27 May 2009 at 14:28:17
Greetings All!
Abagond, great post!! I love to hear opinions on this issue because I think it is so amazing how slavery still affects the way that we (black people) think. And the white man has the nerve to tell us to just get over it like the bondage has not affected and damaged our mentality.
I would like to say that I am a 21 year old woman with a medium brown complexion. I am a recent grad and I live in a metropolitan area filled with black professionals. Now that I have stated my credentials, I will go on with my comment.
Firstly, to the black men who say that they don’t have a preference for light-skinned women, this may be true for some of you but most black men do have that preference. (Something you prefer…NOT REQUIRE) I have a lot of “homeboys” who are like “hook me up with one of your friends”….”I like light skinned girls with long hair” …..”Being light-skinned gives a woman an automatic 2 point lead on a scale of 1 to 10″ …or my fav “She has to be at least lighter than me”. Sorry to say, but this is the majority. Its also apparent in the rap songs written by black men (for example, Lil Wayne’s new song I Like Her… i like a long hair thick red bone like my filet mignon….or something like that) I would love to be considered premium steak to my fellow black men.
Secondly, I don’t hate light skinned girls. However, I do envy the fact that they can wear almost any color eyeshadow and lipstick….but thats it. Most Darker skinned women don’t have a problem with their complexion, it seems to always be an outside source telling us that we are too dark. The epitome of beauty in the black community according to media is Beyonce/Halle Berry……These women are just white women with tans. What about Angel Lola Love or Megan Good or Gabrielle Union or Yaya (absolutely stunning)?
Lastly, I do believe the EXOTIC look is in, so darker skinned girls and black women mixed with korean, brazilian, and mexican are taking over media. Which just make black women want to go out and get the “body wave” weave. lol I had to leave off on a POSITIVE/ COMICAL note.
Wed 27 May 2009 at 17:48:06
^
Cool comment, Shana.
To expound on your mention of that Lil’ Wayne track (I also hate that line and ones just like it):
What about the Mystikal song, “Shake Ya Ass”, when he says “I like my women chocolate and bow legged”?
Or, the Del the Funkee Homosapien song “Dark Skinned Girls” (are better than light skinned)?
Or, the Mobb Deep track, “Trife Life” where Prodigy rhapodizes over a “brown skinned shorty” …and so many more examples.
What about the several rappers and R&B dudes who are married to typical-complexioned black women (like Lil’ Wayne was)?
Is it so cut and dry? I’m also around a black professional milieu, in the South at that. I don’t see the same general light-colored preference. Hair, maybe. Color, not so much.
Also, “exotic” is relative. It means something different to each person. And you can’t be mixed with Mexican or Brazilian? That’s a nationality, not an ethnicity/race. Are you mixed with American? LOL.
Sun 31 May 2009 at 13:50:49
.
It is high time that the world
came to know that the false idea
that the “house slaves’ were
of a light-skin coloring /
tone is a TOTAL URBAN MYTH.
Here is a link to a commentary
on that very same subject
http://www.transmyth.com/blog/?p=79&cpage=1#comment-171
.
Sun 31 May 2009 at 20:54:21
‘All this is an effect of white thinking on black people:’
excuse me?
whether your white, black, brown, yellow or green, what you think on what beautiful is, is your own fault.
if you don’t have a problem with other colours there should be no reason why the people you try to connect with to have a problem with your colour.
if you have a problem with the colour of your own skin, you can’t blame somebody else. you need to really soul search and find out for yourself that you are, indeed, in your own way beautiful.
Mon 1 Jun 2009 at 03:30:23
Agreed about the soul searching, but most people do not come up with these ideas out of the blue. They come from somewhere and for Black Americans that somewhere is White America. Just like the colourism in India comes from the Aryans who came from the north and took over India thousands of years ago.