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Why so few white men marry black women

White men with black women are not as common in America as you might expect. Even though an eighth of American women are black, fewer than one married white man in 400 has a black wife! That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.

Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:

  • 132: white women
  • 100: American women in general
  • 23: Asian women
  • 2: black women

So why do so few white men marry black women?

Here are some reasons that you hear:

  1. Lack of opportunity: Most white men live in a nearly all-white world. Most know only a few black women.
  2. Lack of education in black women: White men look for women with the same level of education. That limits the number of black women they might date and marry even further.
  3. Lack of good looks in black women: Most white men think black women are not all that good looking when compared to white women. That comes across in their phrase “good-looking for a black girl”. And you see it in their lists of beautiful women on the Internet: they have few if any black women and those they do have tend to be light-skinned. An amazing-looking black woman can walk right by a white man without him batting an eye.
  4. Lack of friendliness of black women: White men tend to see black women as being hard to get along with – the Sapphire stereotype. It is just not worth the trouble.
  5. Lack of acceptance among white friends and family: White men are afraid of what their friends or family will say. Whites are less accepting of mixed relationships, especially mixed marriages, than blacks are.
  6. Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.

That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:

  • 19.5 Asian women
  • 8.4 black men
  • 7.2 Asian men
  • 3.6 black women
  • 2.2 white men
  • 1.9 white women

It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.

The other reasons have some truth to them, but notice how they never seem to blame white men.

They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:

  1. White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black. Not because their parents are against it, not because their friends are against it, not because white society is against it – because they themselves are against it!

As white people put it, “What about the children?” As if it was some terrible thing to be black! Well, to a white racist it is.

See also:

1,262 Responses

  1. “That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.”

    LOL, even American Indian women have far more chance of marrying a White man than a Black woman. I read the statistics in the book, Demography. When going outside of the race to marry, White American men tend to get:

    Latinas
    Asian/Pacific Island Women
    American Indian Women

    The book doesn’t mention Black women at all.

    Stephanie


  2. Pathetic.


  3. Pathetic.


  4. Abagond,

    I agree. These facts are real no matter how racists such as Steve Sailer would spin it. He knows deep down that he has racist feelings and views towards Blacks, esp. Black women. As a matter of fact, his well-known essay, Is Love Colorblind?, is full of racist/sexist biases, biases that he have of Blacks all his life.

    Many whites today would say that they’re for IRs but their actions and private views said otherwise. They only say this publicly for appearances sake, but when they see just one Black family moving in, they put up the for sale sign, remove their children out of schools, etc.

    Like you said in your post, it’s just pathetic of how Americans treat Black women.

    Stephanie


  5. What about black men NOT marrying black women? In general, black women are the least likely to get married in America. I think this is a far more pressing problem. I wrote a blog on this since Tyra Banks had a show about it in Feb.


  6. I dunno, I think some White men are just genuinely nervous about approaching Black women. Like, they don’t know how to do it, and are scared to put themselves out there.

    But, in general, I’ve found that White men are quite interested in Black women. Hell, I’ve dated tons of White men. And they always open with “I’ve always had these crushes on Black women…”


  7. This is a topic that I’ve pondered quite a bit. As mentioned previously, I am a WM married to a BW for 13 years. I have a fair number of WM/BF couples as friends. I do perceive that this is a growing phenomenon, perhaps one of the most rapidly growing of IR pairings (more on this below).

    I can confirm that among my WM acquaintances, many have never even considered the idea of dating a BW. It’s not that they’ve thought about it and rejected it. It’s that the idea has never crossed their minds at all. Like Agabond said, a drop-dead beautiful BW could walk past them and they wouldn’t see anything. Certainly there are elements of racism in this. Americans are programmed by our mass media, in a Skinnerian manner, to a standard of beauty that excludes BW for the most part (though this is changing — more below).

    However, American has a stark black/white separation that transcends racism. This separation is perpetrated by both blacks and whites. Go to the commons lunch area of any major university and see for yourself. I was at UCLA recently on vacation and saw it – tables of white people and tables of black people. No mixing. And you won’t see black people making an effort to join a white group any more than vice versa.

    As readers of this blog know, I blame American PC liberal culture for this. It has quashed honest discourse about race and replaced it with an uncomfortable silence in which any mention of race is taboo. Hence separation.

    There are other barriers to WM/BW relationships as well:

     BW are suspicious of the motive of WM who step to them. This is legitimate to some extent. There are WM who desire BW solely as an exotic sexual conquest. Even if the WM’s intentions are sincere, BW worry about the potential that the WM harbors latent racist sentiments that could surface in times of stress or anger. By the way, for the record, I have never once called my wife, or any black girlfriend, the “n” word, in anger or otherwise, and this is consistently true among every other WM/BW couple that I know.

     WM perceive that BW generally won’t date them. This is also grounded in reality. Historically, BW would not date WM out of a sense of principal, a feeling that doing so would be a betrayal to their race. This sense persisted among BW even as many BM openly dated WW. This is supported by the statistics. Agabond’s statistics, even if true (I’ve seen statistics that contradict those cited by Agabond), fail to account for the actual numbers involved. 1.9% of all WW represents a huge number compared to 3.6% of BW. As a WM who, prior to being married in 1995, dated primarily BW since about 1982, I can attest to the difficulty experience by WM in meeting BW willing to date a white guy. It’s already hard for a guy to meet compatible women who are interested in dating them. The guy must first be attracted to the woman, then figure out whether she is attracted to him, then figure out a way to meet her and ask her out without seeming desperate or obsessed or anything like that. Etc. Add to that mix the uncertainly of whether the woman would even consider dating a white guy and many guys won’t go there.

     Familial and friend disapproval.

     The “What about the kids?” syndrome.

     Educational and/or socio-economic disparities.

    That said, I do perceive that WM/BW pairings are on the rise, and that this will continue to accelerate in the future. In fact, I think it will eventually become the most common IR pairing in the US. Why? Several reasons. First, as I mentioned in another post, increasing minority enrollment at colleges in the past decade have been mostly female. White boys at college are going to class with fine sisters, finding them to be charming and intelligent and fun, and dating them. Proximity breeds familiarity, leading to attraction and coupling.

    Second, the predominance of WM/BW couples in society at large, and in mainstream media (TV couples like Toni Childs and her Jewish husband on Girlfriends, celebrities like Bobby DeNiro, movies like “Something New” or “Guess Who,” etc.), plants the seed of possibility in people’s minds. A corollary to this is the fact that Americans are becoming hip to the idea that mixed kids are extra attractive. The “tragic mulatto” storyline is being replaced with the “super-attractive mixie” ethic. A related corollary is that white parents are not stigmatized by the idea of their white sons marrying black women and fathering mixed grandchildren.

    Third, BW themselves have become increasingly open, in the past two decades, to the idea of dating a WM. Blanc2 can personally attest to this. The guardedness and suspicion that WM once encountered when trying to step to a sister are nowadays much less likely to be present. In about 1983, I enjoyed a fun date with a lovely BW who kissed me goodnight and was almost instantly wracked with racial guilt. “That’s not right. I’m sorry, I just can’t do this…” she stammered. It’s much less likely that something like that would occur today. A corollary to this is the “48%” (the statistic relating to the number of BW who are not married) phenomenon widely discussed in connection with the release of “Something New.” BW are growing tired of waiting for BM to marry them when there are eligible WM willing to do so.

    Finally, and what I think is the most important reason, BW are fine. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. WW spend fortunes going to tanning salons, getting lip implants and butt implants, and getting their hair curled at the salon. BW have naturally tan skin, naturally full lips and butts, and naturally curly hair. In other words, BW possess naturally the precise beauty attributes that WW pay to obtain. WW pay to obtain these attributes because society at large views them as attractive. I’m seeing it all around me – WM looking like a light bulb has just gone off in their previously somnolent brains: “Wow, I never thought about it before, but there are a lot of fine sisters out there.”


  8. Steph: I agree with you.

    indigoblu: that is an excellent post idea, but much harder to write than this one: “Why so few black men marry black women”. I will write it sometime in late July when I will have more time than now.

    RyanB: I am not talking about white men dating or liking black women – I am talking about marrying them! That is where the rubber hits the road. The 1 in 400 is a very very dismal number. I know your father is one of them.

    Blanc2: Still reading… ;-)


  9. I need to correct the post, but the numbers I gave were % of married Americans, not all Americans. That might be why you have seen different numbers.


  10. Blanc2: Question: is that how white men approach great-looking white women too – waiting for some sign of interest back from them? Or do they just go for broke and not care about any preliminary interest?


  11. Blanc2: Interesting observations about black women interest in white men across the years.

    Good point about it never having crossed many white men’s minds to date a black woman. It never crossed my mind that it never crossed their minds! It is not like they live in some faraway land.


  12. Abagond –
    Perhaps the stat is correct… but thinking about marriage and my own family –
    My aunt is married to a white man.
    My cousin is engaged to a white man.
    My mom was married a white men, then divorced him and had me (with another white man)

    I see tons of interracial couples – but perhaps they’re just more prevalent in urban areas.


  13. Re: Awaiting signals/going for broke: it obviously depends on personal style and context — for me, when single, if meeting in a club or on the street I might have been inclined to “go for broke,” but if meeting within my established social network or at work I would certainly have awaited some signal of interest.

    Re: Never crossing the mind: As you yourself have repeatedly noted, our nation is still quite segregated. Many, perhaps most, whites live in a very white world and never even consider issues of race. They live in white suburbs, attend white schools, work in white workplaces, watch white TV shows and movies, and generally only “see” other white people.

    As to Ryan’s point, I see the same thing in my wife’s extended family and social network (most of whom are in Los Angeles): sister married to a WM, father’s second marriage was to a WW, cousins married to white people, college friends IR married, etc. Ryan, I like your blog, by the way.


  14. Blanc2

    I think you are as guilty as stereotyping whites as you accuse them of being as you. The working class that gets portrayed on TV is as unreal a depiction of middle america as BETs is of Black America.

    I’m from L.A. and live in New York now. I don’t see any of what you see. I think people are more concerned about feeding their family than if someone is black or white.

    Very closed minded of you.

    _Stal


  15. Stal: which stereotypes of whites are you talking about? It is not clear form your comment.


  16. So glad to hear you’re enjoying my blog, blanc2 :)

    Let me also note that I’m loving the discussions and connections that are coming out of abagond’s posts :) Abagond, keep up the awesome, thought-provoking work!


  17. I’m talking about the Leave it to Beaver Stereotypes portrayed in that post.

    I’m 3/4 Jew 1/4 italian and not white at all.


  18. Stal, which post? Be brutally specific because so far I am still not getting you.


  19. Stal, I’m also interested in the specifics. Let me remind you also that we are speaking here in broad generalizations, though the numbers (i.e. — the tiny number of WM/BW marriages) tend to bear them out.

    I recognize that there are many exceptions to the generalizations described. I personally know many white people who have no issues dating/marrying black people. My family — a very white typical family from very small town Midwest — is completely at ease with an accepting/supportive of my IR marriage, and I know that I’m not alone in that regard.


  20. on Thu 26 Jun 2008 at 00:01:40 mynameismyname

    Blanc2’s personal ancidotes are valuable, sure, but they are just that “personal ancidotes”. They don’t reflect nationwide trends or attitudes. Personally, I know a lot of people who like mayonnaise. What does that mean? Does that reflect the entire countries’ taste in condiments? For all the white folks you know who are fairly comfortable with the idea of IR romance, there are many more who are NOT. Sad but true.


  21. I agree: RyanB and Blanc2 seem to know quite a few IRs but it is not what you see nationwide – even if it is common in their circles.


  22. Thanks, Stephanie, for the links! I see that you and Ann have been busy!

    By the way, when you post something with more than one link WordPress will think it is spam. It may take a while for me to see it in my filter and fish it out.


  23. Steph: I read that Sailer article too, his theory about why Asian men and black women are so undesirable! Where does this guy live? Who are his friends?


  24. Steve Sailer lives in Studio City California with his white wife and two sons. According to Sailerfraud, he associates mainly with white right-wing men and eugenicists. His unnatural obsession with Blacks and interracial relationships borders on mental illness.

    Here’s a bio on Steve at One People’s Project:

    Anyone who has done research on the internet on such topics as race, genetics, or interracial marriage may have directly or indirectly come across an infamous race researcher named Steve Sailer.

    Who is Steve Sailer? He is one of a handful of extreme “scientific racists”, affiliated with and often paid by extreme right-wing groups like VDare, American Renaissance, and others. He has written numerous pseudo-scientific articles on the internet that will fit his racist agenda that any race other than his own race, the White race, is inferior. He has a racist and condescending tone toward other races.

    His falsified and racist writings have permeated the internet, creating many rumors and misunderstanding which have spread through many internet forums. Many unsuspecting people who have written articles on race or interracial marriages may have used Steve as a source while researching on the internet.

    Steven Ernest Sailer is a white American male born in December 20, 1958. He attended UCLA in the early 1980s and worked for several years as a businessman in Chicago after college. In the late 1990s, he and his family (white wife Carole Sailer born 02/27/1959 and two sons) moved to his birthtown, Studio City, in the Los Angeles area where he currently resides.

    It is the field of journalism, not as a businessman, which propelled Steve’s publicity. Being a so-called race researcher who writes on and judges other races, and frequently condemns the non-white races as inferior and undeserving to live in America, it is only appropriate to ask, “What sort of experiences does Steve possess to research and judge other races?” He has no record of employment from the mainstream media, and he certainly has never been associated with Pulitzer winning publications or credible mainstream journalist organizations. He is not a doctor or scientist from an accredited institution in the field of race or genetics.

    Possessing eloquent writing skills and a trashy attitude, Steve’s first major employment debacle in journalism was for the National Review magazine, a far right-wing media publication infamously known for it’s trashy, politically incorrect, borderline racist pieces of work. From 1994 to 1998, Steve wrote numerous inflammatory articles and excerpts on race and interracial marriages, primarily based on media stereotypes and his heinous group of extreme right-wing scientific racists (e.g. Phillipe Rushton, Sam Francis, the Pioneer Fund, Social Darwinists, etc…).

    Once of his most (in)famous works for the National Review which boosted his publicity was the 1997 article on interracial marriages, “Is Love Colorblind”. In the article, he believes Asian males and Black females are so inherently inferior and unattractive by birthright, they will be at a significant disadvantage in finding relationships and will be breeded out of society. This overexaggerated article was known to create gender divides among the races. Knowing the stir initially created by this article, he wrote another article in 2003 where he flat out lied about the 2000 Census stats on interracial marriages to repeat the havoc initially created so he can profit.

    In the late 1990s, Sailer made two more accomplishments in the name of scientific racism. First, he created the Human Biodiversity Group, a right-wing eugenics thinktank where people with the mindsets of Steve Sailer can discuss and promote academic racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and eugenics policies. Among the worst members of the HBD group, whom Sailer Primarily bases his scientific research upon, are Charles Murray, Vincent Sarich, Arthur Jensen, John Derbyshire, Chris Brand, Philippe Rushton, Jim Woodhill, Steve Pinker, Jon Entine, and Peter Brimelow.

    Second, Steve Sailer left the National Review to join the VDare internet publication. VDare is notorious for it’s pro-fascist, anti-immigration stance and racist views to rid America of anyone who is not white. VDare’s president, Peter Brimelow, declared the 1965 Immigration Act as “Hitler’s revenge”. As a note, VDare labels itself as a non-profit organization to avoid paying taxes and to give tax breaks to its contributors, but it profits anyway to employ exclusively right-wing biased journalists and racists so they can make a living.

    Sailer’s racist views and true colors became more prevalent after writing articles for VDare. Whether declaring that Latinos are no-good trash and Latino immigration must end, or that Blacks are genetically inferior in mental capability and do not deserve equal educational and economic opportunities, or that Asians are genetically inferior in physique and do not deserve opportunities in professional sports, Sailer has used VDare as his flagship to carry out his racist agenda of white supremacy and to trash on anyone who is not white like him.

    Another less-than-plausible journalist achievement for Steve is joining the United Press International organization in 2001. Because writing articles under the VDare name was too conspicuous, the UPI seemed like a more neutral and acceptable logo at the time. However, a closer examination into UPI shows the same extreme right-wing bias.

    The UPI, a subsidiary of the conservative Washington Times, is a 93-year-old agency which has been a financially troubled operation for the past three decades, with multiple ownership changes during the past 18 years. A major historical turning point of UPI was in 2000, when the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s media organization, News World Communications, purchased the Washington Times and UPI to extend his media regime to the international level. The Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who heads his Unification Church, is a cultist leader and extreme right-winger from Korea. He is known for starting an obsessive cult group, whom his followers are labeled Moonies, in America during the 1970s, and has been known to spread his ultra-conservative movement centered around him on an international level since then.

    As you can infer, the UPI (also nicknamed the Unification Press International) exclusively employs right-wing biased journalists, including Steve Sailer.

    Before you get offended with any of his writings, please keep in mind he is only a biased freelance writer. He is not a scientist or doctor from an accredited institution in the field of genetics or race. His livelihood depends on overexaggerating, even flat out lying, to create a stir among the public so he can profit and pay off his personal bills. Unfortunately, his countless writings on the internet has created much lies and discontent, and it is time to hold him accountable.

    __________________________________
    Stephanie B.


  25. Wow, thanks! Now I got to do a post on him!


  26. Also, I’ve just found the article at a certain right-wing blogger’s website. His views are just as bad as David and Steve Sailer’s. Here’s the 2002 article below. I believe David copied his views on multiracial/black beauty from the rightwinger Kelley and Sailer.

    _______________________________________
    BLACK CHICKS: I was perusing FHM’s list of the 100 Sexiest Women in the World 2002 in search of a story—the things I do for my readers—when I noticed how white they are. According to our race-obsessed Census Bureau, over 12 percent of Americans are black, but the mostly-US readership of FHM selected only 8 black women:
    #3: Halle Berry—Actress

    #21: Beyoncé Knowles—Singer

    #23: Tyra Banks—Model

    #34: Janet Jackson—Singer

    #36: Mariah Carey—Singer, Weirdo

    #80: Alicia Keys—Singer

    #82: Aaliyah—Singer, Corpse (alas)

    #85: Samantha Mumba—Singer

    Even the above list is a little misleading, because a quick visit to MixedFolks.com revealed that four of these women (Halle, Mariah, Alicia, and Samantha) are decidedly biracial, having one African and one European parent. I use the phrase decidedly biracial after having seen this article that discusses DNA testing. A study of the genetic makeup of 3,000 Americans reveals how racially mixed we really are:
    Among self-identified whites in Shriver’s sample, the average black admixture is only 0.7 percent. That’s the equivalent of having among your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (who lived around two centuries ago), 127 whites and one black.
    It appears that 70 percent of whites have no African ancestors. Among the 30 percent who do, the black admixture is around 2.3 percent, which would be like having about three black ancestors out of those 128.

    In contrast, African-Americans are much more racially mixed than European-Americans. Yet, Shriver’s study shows that they are less European that was previously believed.

    Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver’s project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That’s the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.

    According to Shriver, only about 10 percent of African-Americans are over 50 percent white.

    Of course, another way of looking at these data is that a limited amount of black ancestry is enough to make you “look black” from the standpoint of identification. The “one drop” rule may have been ugly from a social and legal perspective, but perhaps reflected a practical reality. Getting back to our list: Does the mixing of races create an exotic look that has helped these four women? Perhaps there’s a “best of both worlds” effect that helps set these women apart.
    But why the shortage of black women overall? One simple explanation would be that the readership of FHM is skewed towards white men and their standards of beauty are rooted in the familiar. But maybe it’s because black women just aren’t as pretty. Consider another piece written by the author of the DNA article above, Steve Sailer, discussing why interracial marriage shortchanges black women and Asian men. He posits some universal standards of beauty that leaves black women behind because of their physiognomy:

    By emphasizing how society encourages us to marry people like ourselves, sociologists miss half the picture: by definition, heterosexual attraction thrives on differences … Opposites attract. And certain race/sex pairings seem to be more opposite than others. The force driving these skewed husband – wife proportions appears to be differences in perceived sexual attractiveness. On average, black men tend to appear slightly more and Asian men slightly less masculine than white men, while Asian women are typically seen as slightly more and black women as slightly less feminine than white women.
    Sailer specifically cites height, hair length, and muscularity as disadvantages for black women—and advantages for Asian women.

    The only problem with this theory in our case? The list of 100 contains only two Asian women: Lucy Liu (#19) and Zhang Ziyi (#91).

    And worse:

    This following post is also from the same man who wrote the article on “Black” women back in 2002 regarding interracial marriage of Black/Biracial women and White men from The Atlanta Constitution. He was wrong to portray Black/Biracial women as “golddiggers”. Here’s the post below:

    WHITE GUYS & BLACK CHICKS: The taboo against black women dating white men is breaking down. The growing education gap between black men and women and the cold fact that many black men are incarcerated or murder victims are causal factors. (By using education as a surrogate for wealth, this article skirts the issue that white men are wealthier than black men. We can’t have black women looking like gold diggers, can we?) One question the article doesn’t fully confront is why white men are going after dark meat, though it acknowledges the “exotic look” factor I attributed to biracial women in a previous post. Black guys still have their fans, though. Mickey Kaus reports:

    Then there is the final taboo issue—black male sexuality. Fear of black male sexuality was the psychological engine of Jim Crow, Nicholas Lemann has argued. And respect for it is the unwritten explanation for a lot of the resistance to cross-race dating (between 1960 and 1980, for example). I once asked a multi-degreed, accomplished black woman friend of mine (who dated whites) why so many other black women restricted their “options” to black men. She paused thoughtfully, stroked her chin, and said: “I guess it’s the sex.”
    — ———————————————–
    If this doesn’t read bigotry, then what is?

    Stephanie


  27. y do ppl even care if wm dtae bw as a bm i think tht white people date outside of their race more than whites blacks do stick with there own more.

    (Lack of desire among black women: Among Americans, black women are the least likely to marry outside their race.
    That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:

    19.5 Asian women
    8.4 black men
    7.2 Asian men
    3.6 black women
    2.2 white men
    1.9 white women
    It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.)

    this is inaccurate because not everybody in the united states is married so how do you know that whites stick to their race more, point of view and actual #s r 2 different things. point of view wise black women r less likely to date outside their race ask most black women and they will tell you they want a black man. that does not mean they wont date other men but more than likely they want a black men.#s wise yea it looks like whites do stick to there kind but at the same time there are way more white ppl in the united states than the other minoritys. if everybody in every minority married a white person right now there would still be 100+ million whites left over so black men and women need each other now i hate how black men get a lil success and they get a white girl. i also cantg stand black women who like 2 potray strong black women in movies but dont even date black men in real life like zoe saladana and rosario dawson latinos are known for self hate especially black latinos (latinos is not a race it is a ethnicity and a bs ethnicity at tht ethnicity is where you come from and evrybody in the united states is american point black none of tht white black asian shit. same thing with asian tht is a bs ethnicity latinos and asians know where they come from if your dominican american dominican is your ethnicity not latino last time i checked there i no country called latino lol. same with asians if your japanese american japanese is your ethnicity not asian. the only ethnicity tht has the right to be grouped together is blacks because we dont know where we’re from. whites dont even have the right to b grouped together because they know there place of origin to irish american means irish is your ethnicity) sorry for the rant and not capitalizing i was feeling lazy


  28. its one thing to happen to be dtaing someone of a different race it is another thing to go looking for other races i feel like most bm/ww and wm/bw relationships r black people looking for other races not blacks happening to be dating someone white or whtever


  29. ANY man who waits for a woman to make the first move is a coward, pure and simple.

    As for going to nightclubs, not all black women frequent nightclubs. Many attend live plays, movies, museum exhibits, festivals, concerts—their interests range the whole gamut of what any normal person would do.

    What is wrong with saying a simple, “Hello”, to a black woman?

    There are black women who have high morals, good educations, varied interests—–but, white men (and men of other races, as well) will never know these black women if these so-called “men” do not grow some balls and simply speak to the woman.

    And as for the lie that many black women are unapproachable—that is all it is: a lie.

    Black women are no less unapproachable than any other woman, but, if you as a black woman are ignored, treated as INVISIBLE, walked past, looked past, why should you waste your time on a race of men, or embarrass yourself, by running after a race of men who do not recognize not only your beauty, but also do not recognize your humanity?

    Women DO NOT chase after men. MEN approach women, that is if they are real men. Men make the effort to get to know the woman. Many women (no matter their race) ARE NOT raised to chase after men. Many women are painfully shy and many are reserved, and that does not mean the woman is a Sapphire or unapproachable. Many women respect themselves, and many women are reserved and retiring. Any man who has a problem with all of the aforementioned is a problem himself.

    As for dating.

    Dating AND marriage are not the same thing. Anyone can go on a date, but, to the men reading my words, would any of you have the guts OR respect to put off asking for sex with a woman if she declined, say, 6 months after dating? Would you respect a woman who is a virgin/celibate and she wishes to remain that until she is married—-or would you drop her as if she is some bad disease if she does not jump into bed with you?

    Facts have to faced. White men have been indoctrinated AGAINST black women for over 450 years.

    Four hundred plus years of

    -Slavery
    -Viciousness of white male racism/sexism during Reconstruction
    -Segregation

    will do that.

    Not to mention the horrific stereotypes that WHITE MEN gave black women, you know, the lies and abominations that so many white men (and many men of other races, as well) are so willing to believe.

    Yes, segregated lives do preclude WM and BW from crossing paths more often, but, then again is that the fault of black women? Did black women create white supremacy? Did black women create Jim Crow? Did black women create and maintain American slavery? Did black women create wage disparity where for every $1.00 a white man earns, black women earn $0.66 out of every dollar?

    Do black women benefit from when Affirmative Action WAS WHITE (the way millions of white men did)?

    Do black women own and proliferate the world with racist/sexist stereotypes of black women? Do black women own Forbes magazine, Time, Newsweek, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, FOX NEWS? Do black women cram down people’s throats 450 years of lies and hate, the legacy of which IS STILL WITH THIS COUNTRY?

    I believe we all know whose feet we can lay that blame at.

    Many white men who worry about what their family or friends think are not men. A real man goes for what he wants out of life. The rest of the world be damned. What, wait for friends and family to come around? Be prepared most of you for waiting for forever.

    Will your so-called friends take care of you if you get sick? Will your so-called friends pay your bills if you lose your job?

    And what the hell about the children?

    Thanks to white men and their racist/sexist hatred of black women for over 450 years, black people as a whole are not a PURE-BLOOD RACE of people. Remember, it was white men who ran black women down, dogged them, raped them, and changed black people genetically and skin color wise. So, black people are really not black people. Black Americans are A mixed-blood, hybrid race of people. We have more genetically in common with American whites than whites do with Asians.

    Sorry for my harshness, but, millions of white men do not have the balls to consider black women as marriage material.

    F**k-em material, yes, Wife–no.

    There are many black women who are college-educated and highly intelligent. If you as a white man do not take the effort to strike up a conversation with her, how the hell will you learn anything about her? What, ESP? Vulcan-mindmelt?

    And who are white men that so many of them think they are better than black women that black women should make the first move?

    Do you white men demand this from white, Latina, Asian, etc., women?

    Let me just take a guess and say, hell no, you do not.

    No, let’s just all put everything on black women.

    The whole world knows that black women have no feelings, black women are less than human, so why not give a damn about the fact that many black women simply just want to be treated as human beings.

    Hell……

    …….a black woman stands a better chance of being treated more respectfully in EUROPE than in the country of her birth.

    And there are facts that bear that out.

    Damn.


  30. Ann, you are so beautiful! As always. Thank you for that great comment!


  31. Amen, Ann, Amen! I cosign with Abagond on this one.

    Steph


  32. dcnot420: most black women want a black man. Sure, of course. But the same can be said of white women: most want a white man. Which one sticks to their kind more? The numbers show that it is white women, not black women.


  33. One thing’s for sure is that when a white marries black, they’d have beautiful children like the ones in this pic. :-)


  34. on Sat 28 Jun 2008 at 23:40:49 mynameismyname

    Abagond, the reason for that has to be thanks to the fact that there are WAY MORE white women in this country than black, so of course, they’ll stick to their own for the most part. Also, most whites in America live in their own segregated world, so that contributes that too. Plus, of course, the prejudices.

    Net Al-Attas ….eh, not all kids who come from black/white marriages look good or different. Some do, on an individual basis, but most look indistinguable from other black people, who are just as mixed but not from an interracial relationship.


  35. You hear people say that – “mixed kids look better”. Where does that come from? It is not like it is true or something.


  36. Yeah, maybe ur right about that. Anyway I appreciate their exotic looks. Unique!


  37. Sadly, a lot of people think mixed kids look a whole lot better than monoracial kids. I don’t think they do, but ask others and they will say what Nell is saying. It is sad to me really.

    I’m a black woman who has never had a desire to date non black men. I love black men. I was always told I would marry a black man when I get older, and that is what I plan to do. I have a lot of respect and love for my culture and people. I really do not care about white men and if they find me desireable. Truth be told, I don’t even think about them in that way.

    I agree with everything Ann has posted. She was on point. I loved what she had to say because it is true. This makes me wonder why then do some black women waste their time wondering if white men find them attractive or not? If they do, they do. If they do not, oh well that is their problem.


  38. It’s all rooted in the mindset of lighter skin, “good hair” etc is more attractive. More European looking and less African. People like that are most likely “color struck” and all together have bought into the European standard of beauty mostly because it’s catholic.


  39. That makes sense. That would explain it.


  40. I live here in Michigan, and just moved from NC. Yes, there is alot of interacial couples. I’m a black women and married to a white and very good looking man. The white women here are not at all attractive, they might think they are, simply because they are caucasion. When I see a wigger type, they are always looking to see if I care if they are with the ugliest black man. I laugh at them and walk on. I’m not mix but I have a biracial child. Being mix doesn’t make your child beautiful, really it’s all in the features, just like those beautiful children above, with their beautiful and I do mean chocolate beautiful mother. Her husband isn’t too bad himself. White women here are really fat, red and uuuugggly. I say that with a smile, because I know that they are just jealous. You white or non black women are alway saying that black women are haters, because you are with a low life black man, but it’s you fat uckers that’s alway eye balling us pretty black women, almost like you want us to be angry. I’m not, it’s just that most white women are so evil and really don’t have a ucking clue. Get a life and stop staring at us, because you think your man is going to look at us, and he does when your ugly arse isn’t looking.


  41. OK as a black woman who has pretty much exclusively dated white men and who is currently married to a white man, I can say white men are definitely interested in black women, but don’t assume that black women are interested in them.

    Black women typically are the first to hold out for a black man, than date a white man. We do this because in the black community, even though it is accepted a black men will date and marry a non black woman, because black women are fat, loud, and whatever other stereotype you can think of, for a black woman to date a white man is seen as sleeping with the enemy. White women are seen as victims of white men, so the blow of a white woman dating a black man is softer than a black woman dating a white man. Black women do hold out for black men, I have countless single, professional, college educated black women in their 30s and 40s still waiting for that good black man, and scoff at the idea of dating a white man.

    Also note most miscegenation laws that were created in this country were to prevent white men from having sex with black women, not the other way around, as most people seen to believe. Blacks have been in this country since it’s inception, it was only until the Lincoln administration did it become an issue, when they thought if blacks were freed mass rape against white women would happen.

    I do agree lack of opportunity to date black women hinder white men, but if education is an issue, why would black men still outnumber black women when it came to interracial relationships? Black women graduate from college at a rate of 46%, black men only graduate at a rate of 36%. Because of the numbers, black women have now in their quest to stay within their own race considered man sharing, and are expected to open their options by dating a black man who is less educated and makes less money.

    In terms of good looks in black women, no matter how much the media defines beauty as white, blond, and everything that is opposite of black women, black women are still desired. There is a reason there is the southern term “splitting the dark oak”. I have never had a problem with men approaching me, their intentions might not be relationship oriented, but men of all races approach, and I am not by any means what is considered attractive by mainstream media. The “good looking for a black girl comment” mostly comes from black men. It is usually rephrased as “You’re pretty for a dark skinned girl” or “You got that good hair” .

    I do agree that white men fall into the stereotypes that black women are full of attitude and less friendly, but so do black men.

    In terms of acceptance of friends and family, I was way more scared of my family accepting my husband than my husband was of his family. Men I have dated in the past had no problem with me meeting their families. I’ve met many a white momma.


  42. BW are suspicious of the motive of WM who step to them. This is legitimate to some extent. There are WM who desire BW solely as an exotic sexual conquest. Even if the WM’s intentions are sincere, BW worry about the potential that the WM harbors latent racist sentiments that could surface in times of stress or anger. B

    I definitely agree with this, even when I first started dating I always was told by my family that white men don’t want you for anything other than sex, in some instances they were right, white men would come up to me in the most vulgar way, but I had black men who did the same thing.

    WM perceive that BW generally won’t date them. This is also grounded in reality.

    Very true, my husband told me it is very difficult for white men because many black women aren’t open to ir.

    ——-

    Robin are you that insecure in your marriage to your wonderful looking white man that you must berate black men and white women? Seriously was all that bashing necessary?


  43. (Black women do hold out for black men, I have countless single, professional, college educated black women in their 30s and 40s still waiting for that good black man, and scoff at the idea of dating a white man.)

    This is defiantly true. You will hardly find an educated, professional black man who ends up marrying a educated, professional, black woman—or any black woman for that matter, so there is defiantly something else at play here because there are plenty of educated, professional black women, as you mentioned available. I personally think it has to do with the fact that she IS educated, mostly independent, and ambitious, and a lot of black men seem to be intimidated by this.
    I also think that waiting, for black women, is more than likely a waste of time, especially at this point. 73% of interracial marriages are with black men. Nothing is wrong with wanting a black man but I think black women should keep their options open in finding love instead of necessarily trying to find “black” love.


  44. “Also note most miscegenation laws that were created in this country were to prevent white men from having sex with black women, not the other way around, as most people seen to believe.”

    I agree, but, I will add more that it was the desire to keep wealth, property, and the legal name of the white father from black women and any children he fathered with her. Many laws were enacted against black people that affected black women more so than black men. Which is why the phrase, “Would you want your daughter to marry one”? has no feminine counterpart. It was expected that a black woman would be used by and abandoned by a white man, and that he would publicly disown his own mixed-blood children with a black woman.

    There were laws that would protect a black female from rape ONLY if she was UNDER 9 YEARS of age; any age over that and she and her family would have no legal recourse against rape, or any pregnancy that followed.

    Yes, many black women fear the advances of white men, but, what of the black women who do not?

    I agree with you that nasty behaviour has been done to black women by BOTH white and black men; not to mention men of other races as well.

    But, there are some black women who give not a damn what the BC says, nor do they allow the BC to demand that black women wait for their lives to end waiting on a black man.

    LOOK for a MAN is what I exhort black women to do. A man who will love, honor and cherish you. Black women need to get over this bullshit of “Nothing but a black man for me”, (sorry for the profanity.) That so many black women have publicly stated this has convinced many white men/men of other races, “Well, you must not want us all that much”. And if I was a man and I heard the phrase, “A white man can do nothing for me”, well, imagine a white man saying the same thing about black women. There would be an uproar!

    As for those BM who marry outside the so-called black community, many of them want to leave the burden of shouldering the BC on black women. There is nothing wrong with marrying outside of your race, just do not abandon the community that carried you on its back. Sadly, the BC community takes black women for granted. As the late, great Zora Neale Hurston said in her epic, “Their Eyes Were Watching God”: ‘Black women are the mules of the world.’

    Well, I, and many black women were born into this world as baby girls, grew from girlhood to womanhood, and are human beings with all the rights to an abundant life. We are not mules, and we should never allow ourselves to told that we should take less in this world. If a MAN approaches you respectfully, DO NOT turn him away. Do not cast him aside because he is not black. The next time may be a long drought before another man gives you the time of day.

    As for what I call “The Nanny Syndrome”, there are black men who would marry a poor white woman with a high school degree before they would marry a black woman with a college Ph.D.

    Many black men are so sure they will always be able to go to the “Well Of Black Women” as I prefer to call it.

    One day that well will run dry. . . .IF black women finally decide to LIVE and stop putting their precious lives on hold.

    Wonder what would happen if black women took a day off, similar to that Douglas Ward Turner play, “A Day Of Absence”?

    God help the black community if black women did decide to do such a thing.


  45. I wish to clarify my last comment.

    The “Nothing but a black man”, comment was not meant to isult or demean the black women who desire to marry a black man. In the end one should marry whom they wish, but, facts of reality have to be faced.

    I deal in pragmatism. I am realistic with what the situation and facts present to me. With the numbers against black women (2-3 black women per black man); longer life spans than black men; the chances of being single LONGER than other races of women. . . . I just want to see black women happy and as much fulfilled as they can be in this country and this world.

    Black women have more than earned that right.

    One more thing.

    On the phrase, “Split dark oak”, that was and still is a demeaning and degrading phrase. It is no better than the other racist Southern saying: “A black woman, no matter how virginal and decent, was considered less than a white prostitute”.

    All across the American South, a white man was not considered a man UNLESS he laid down with and had sex with a black womam. In some even more putrid and bizarre racist belief, it was believed that if a white man (during slavery this practice was common), if he had an STD, and if he had sex with a young black girl, that this abominable act would cure him of syphillis or gonorrhea.

    Sick, yes.

    But, because of the lies/myths and stereotypes so many non-black menare willing to believe against black women, and because of the fears that black women have of white men’s advances, add the mass segregation of neighborhoods——and it is understandable that both groups (WM, BM) have no much distrust, as well as fear AND loathing of each other.

    Lack of contact and pernicious myths about each other further keep the divide between black women and white men as wide as the Grand Canyon.

    And that goes for black women’s mistrust of men of other races, as well.


  46. Take a break? That should be a given, period— as a mother and as a woman….but more importantly as a human being need to take time for yourself…breath…look around you…rest….and appreciate the beautiful things in life independent of others, and only dependent on self.

    What NH said is true, defiantly, but if you portray yourself as such, that is exactly what you will be indirectly or directly. Black women are some of the most hard working people in this world undoubtedly, especially in the BC; they have an incredible love and strength that has obviously withstood the test of time, and in the midst of all this, as if a never-ending cycle, many find themselves taking care of everyone..and I do mean everyone …and all of everyone else’s problems, let alone their own.

    Certainly, I am not suggesting that anything is wrong with being hard working, loving, and full of courage and strength but I am suggesting that you have to know when you are being used, abused, and taken advantage of—when you simply need some “Me” time; you have to know when it’s time to give your mind, spirit, and body time to rest. If not, these things will merely build up inside and you suffer more than anyone should have to. Some attribute this to the “angry black woman syndrome”—I wouldn’t doubt if it play a sufficient role.

    You have to not only want more— but demand more by going after more, and getting more because your worth exceeds every bit of it, and if you don’t know and claim your worth, it’s rash to think most people would do anything less than take advantage of a dispirited situation.

    So yes..often times she seemingly goes unappreciated, but much of that goes with knowing how to appreciate yourself and standing your ground; this is a hard thing to do for many black women, especially when it comes to their black man.


  47. “Wonder what would happen if black women took a day off, similar to that Douglas Ward Turner play, “A Day Of Absence”?

    God help the black community if black women did decide to do such a thing.”

    Sorry if I was not very clear.

    Unless one is familiar with the play, “Absence”, the black people took more than a day off, and the white community felt their absence detrimentally. The “Day” sretched into days, weeks, months. The white community realized how much they depended on the despised/taken for granted black people.

    The same thing would happen if black women were not to show up as expected.

    I agree that black women are the backbone of the black church, club/community organizations, etc. Without us, much in the BC would collapse if we stopped allowing ourselves to be used and abused.

    Much of black women’s depression/obesity/diabetes/heart problems/stress is caused from the infamous “Strong Black Woman Myth”, and that hateful myth is killing us.

    Hell…IT HAS killed many of us.

    That so many have taken it for granted that black women will be their crutch to prop them up is what has sapped the lives from so many black women.

    Yes.

    Demand the best from yourself, demand the best from others.

    “So yes..often times she seemingly goes unappreciated, but much of that goes with knowing how to appreciate yourself and standing your ground; this is a hard thing to do for many black women, especially when it comes to their black man.”

    Time for so many black women to euthanize the “Mammy” in them.

    People are going to get all pissy when you stand your ground, but, black women will realize little by little the freedom, the joy, the exhilaration of taking full control of their lives. The back men, the BC, those outside of the BC will gnash their teeth——withdrawal syptoms always happen when the drug is withdrawn cold turkey.

    But, the alternative is much worse.

    I cannot help but wonder where black women would be now if they had not done so much for others at their own expense.

    I also wonder where so many other people would be IF black women had left many people cut and dried so often the way so many people (BM, WM, WW, etc.) have done to black women.

    Talk about a messed up world.

    But, we are black women, unique among all women and people.

    On the other hand, we owe ourselves a life—-no matter who gets mad about it.

    No one can use you unless you continue to allow it, and one life is all you get a shot at in this world.

    People are going to talk, and rail against you—-whether you are standing above ground—-or stretched out 6′ under.

    Nothing new under the Sun.

    Just go for the gusto, Black women!

    Please.

    Grab life by the horns and make it give you what you so rightfully deserve.


  48. Robin Says:
    Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 10:11:26
    I live here in Michigan, and just moved from NC. Yes, there is alot of interacial couples. I’m a black women and married to a white and very good looking man. The white women here are not at all attractive, they might think they are, simply because they are caucasion. When I see a wigger type, they are always looking to see if I care if they are with the ugliest black man. I laugh at them and walk on. I’m not mix but I have a biracial child. Being mix doesn’t make your child beautiful, really it’s all in the features, just like those beautiful children above, with their beautiful and I do mean chocolate beautiful mother. Her husband isn’t too bad himself. White women here are really fat, red and uuuugggly. I say that with a smile, because I know that they are just jealous. You white or non black women are alway saying that black women are haters, because you are with a low life black man, but it’s you fat uckers that’s alway eye balling us pretty black women, almost like you want us to be angry. I’m not, it’s just that most white women are so evil and really don’t have a ucking clue. Get a life and stop staring at us, because you think your man is going to look at us, and he does when your ugly arse isn’t looking.

    Wow Robin, you sure are an ignorant, self-hating racist and a narcissist. You are just as bad as a person who refuses to date or have friends outside his race. I really hope your husband doesn’t feel the same way you do or is he one of these hypocritical men with the “slavemaster mentality”?

    Robin, you apparently have a very strong hatred towards non-black women and black men. Throw all the baby hissy fits all you want, but the truth is you’re SO insecure and find the need to flaunt and advertise your interracial marriage, and only condone BW/WM relationships because they’re the least common and you just happen to be in one, and at the same time, you bad mouth other people’s relationships. Just be thankful you have someone who loves you for you, not because of your skin color. (But if your husband ONLY married you because of your skin color, then he has serious issues with himself). There’s too many problems in this world to worry about who’s dating who.

    As for you disrespecting white women, your statements come across being a vindictive woman with low self-esteem. You use the excuse, (and a very lame one), that white women only date ugly black men. Is it fair to assume uneducated, ugly white men date black women because they can’t find smart, pretty white women? Or vice versa? No, it’s not a fair assumption.

    How about your ranting on about how beautiful you are and all the white women in Michigan are fat and ugly. I travel back and forth to Michigan 2-3 times a week from Chicago. I see ugly people and attractive people of all colors across the 3 states. My next door neighbor is an RN, and a gorgeous white woman (who is originally from Portage, Michigan) married to a very handsome, black surgeon. And her pretty sister is engaged to a hot Latin guy. Or look at Heidi Klum and Seal. So much for your outrageous theory that only ugly white women date ugly non-white men.

    As for the town you live in, I assume you’re probably beautiful by default because the other women are just unkept and not fashionable. Race is irrelevant. Any person who puts effort in their looks can be attractive, regardless of color or size. I bet if you, Robin, were to go to Miami (where all races of people are gorgeous) or LA, you would either blend in, or not even be noticed at all. Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder. I personally know of so many people from the Chicago area, and (Chicago does have some good looking people), who are arrogant and think they are Adonises or Goddesses, and when they go to Miami or LA for “the Industry”, they either face very tough competition or are practically invisible.

    People date or marry people for various reasons or none at all. Do you really believe the attactive black women date Robert De Niro because he’s a handsome guy (maybe during the Godfather and Raging Bull years, but now, ew!) Or the blonde bombshells that share Hugh Hefner only dig him because he’s just so muscular and fine looking.

    My advice to you Robin, please see a therapist. You must have your paranoia of people staring at you and your husband taken care of immediately. It’s all in your mind. Maybe these women you accuse of staring at you and your husband are thinking, “Why the hell is that couple staring at me?” You really need to lighten up, Robin. You make a Klansman look good natured.


  49. People always say black women are reluctant to marry outside their race. But with education and all, I think they are loosening up and most now understand that it isnt just about ‘selling your race out’ but more about who you are compartible with, who you fall in love with and who respects you. So if it is a white man, asian man or hispanic man with these qualities, they go for it. So we expect more black women/white men unions.


  50. If you look at who marries who, white women are way less likely to marry outside their race than are black women.


  51. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 00:56:39 mynameismyname

    Black men don’t marry black women? Bullshit.

    Most married black men are married to black women …the vast majority …92% at that.
    (If you wanna get super technical, even the black nationalities stick to their own for the very most part: West Africans w/ West Africans; black hispanics with black hispanics; West Indians w/ West Indians, all this statistically).

    Black/white marriages for the most part of relatively rare, across the board. History has a lot to do with that.

    The terse, troubling history between black women and white men is one of the reasons behind that coupling’s rarity in the States. I mean, hell, no one is even ready to talk about the history between the two …so what makes anyone expect for the two to start “mingling” romantically?

    Again, the statistic of white women staying to their “own” in marriage has to do with numbers. There’s way more white women in this country than black women. Way more. There’s more white women than black people period in this country so of course, the numbers would slant that way in terms of marriage.


  52. Although there are many black men who are married to black women, the fact still remains that, 73% of interracial marriages in America are black men with other women who are not black–that’s far from a “rarity”.

    Beyond this, many African American women are well into age and not married to black, white, or other. It is sad but true nonetheless.


  53. There are way more white women, true, but that does not account for low number of marriages between white women and black men.

    If race did not matter in America, then among married white women 1 in 8 would have a black husband. But it does matter, so the number is in fact 1 in 179.

    So it does come down to racism, both direct (not wanting black husbands or black babies) and indirect (the lack of integration in American society).


  54. Among married black men, only one in 14 has a white wife. That is not “rare” but it is not all that common either.

    The bigger issue is that so many black woman are going unmarried. Whatever the reasons for that (I am doing a post on that next week), it has little to do with black men running after white women.


  55. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 13:53:53 mynameismyname

    Exactly, Abagond. I agree w/ everything you said. Obviously, racism is the reason why blacks in general, intermarry the least in this country.

    Indigoblu, yes 73% of the small number of blacks who interrmary are black men w/ non-black women (mostly white) but that’s not the vast majority. That’s what I was pointing out.

    There’s many factors in why a good segment of black women in the U.S. aren’t married. White women aren’t even a factor. Racism sure is tho. As is the numerical shortage of black men compared to black women, etc.


  56. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 14:18:07 mynameismyname

    Also Indigoblu,

    You actually stated a untruth. 73% of the interracial marriages involving a BLACK SPOUSE (not all IR marriages) are made up of black women and non-black (usually white) women. That’s the 8% of black men who married out. That doesn’t comprise ALL interracial marriages.

    Most interracial marriages (all 5-6% of them) in this country are comprised of white people and non-black minorities. The vast majority. East Asians have a much higher intermarriage rate than blacks (who do it the least …guess we are the least meltable in this so-called melting pot). Hell, all the other minority groups do.

    Also, Abagond, you can’t overlook that a very tortured history between black women and white men contributes very deeply (subconsciously?) to the reason why the two ‘groups’ stay away from each other. That may be the root of all of this.


  57. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 15:04:05 mynameismyname

    I’m pretty late but Ann’s comment (#30) was the most on-point comment I’ve ever read on this blog. YOU ARE THE TRUTH! You laid it all on the line beautifully. Woo!


  58. mynameismyname:

    Yes, it is just considering black-white marriages, not all couples; I stated it in a why that indicated all IR marriages– sorry for the misinformation and thanks for clearing that up.

    I guess I am looking at it this way: although ~8.4% of black men are marrying out, and it may seem like a small number —- compare that to say the 70% of black women who are unmarried and 42.4% black women who are likely never to get married–that is entirely too close to half. The black family is deteriorating. Yes, there are many factors that play into this but that 8.4% seems like a lot when looking at the entire picture.


  59. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 17:37:15 mynameismyname

    70% of black women not married?! Wait, from the last census, how MANY black women ARE married?

    Those numbers seem off. Stats can always be spun a different way, too, we all have to be aware of that.

    8.4% is not alot. I’m sorry. Interracial dating doesn’t “threaten” the black community at all, in reality. No matter what someone’s individual experiences/perceptions may be. Don’t forget that interracial dating w/ blacks is very looked down upon for the very most part. This prevents it from happening on a much broader scale.


  60. on Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 17:38:50 mynameismyname

    Asian men have a rougher time finding a mate, due to the TRULY HIGH number of Asian women marrying white men here in the States.

    Yet the media doesn’t really focus or explore that …hmmm….

    Yet the small amount of black who wind up married or even dating with a non-black is frequently “explored” (in a biased manner).
    The media playing tricks again? And are we are falling for it?


  61. mynameismyname:

    Sorry for any misunderstanding, but I’m not against interracial dating or marriage, I was only speaking on the fact that there is a high number of black women who are not married. Neither have I said that interracial dating, as you said, OR marriages are a “big threat” to anything—if I somehow indicated that, pls excuse me–what I am saying is when everything adds up it’s an undeniable fact there are still many black women who are not married, which I said many factors play on. The 8.4% seems like a lot, not IS a lot, but seems like a lot when you take into consideration the many black women who are not married and may never get married (kind of like every little bit counts). Of course the real threat is the incarceration of black men and the high rates of unemployment.

    Regardless, many black women tend, as Ann already mentioned, to stick with “their own” and if that trend continues and nothing else changes, the amount of unmarried black women will only increase.

    Aba:

    I know this has kind of gotten off your original topic. Sorry about that. ;)


  62. It is close enough.


  63. on Sun 3 Aug 2008 at 02:33:40 bradstinyworld

    White men are more racist than anyone else. If you want to come right down to the crux of the matter we are probably the least racist of any group. We don’t have to prove anything about how white we are by excluding other races from our friendships or beds, the way some people feel the need to do.


  64. That is wishful thinking. It is not supported by the facts. Among American men, white men are the least likely to marry outside their race. By that measure they are the most racist.


  65. GG says:
    Wow Robin, you sure are an ignorant, self-hating racist and a narcissist. You are just as bad as a person who refuses to date or have friends outside his race. I really hope your husband doesn’t feel the same way you do or is he one of these hypocritical men with the “slavemaster mentality”?

    Robin, you apparently have a very strong hatred towards non-black women and black men. Throw all the baby hissy fits all you want, but the truth is you’re SO insecure and find the need to flaunt and advertise your interracial marriage, and only condone BW/WM relationships because they’re the least common and you just happen to be in one, and at the same time, you bad mouth other people’s relationships. Just be thankful you have someone who loves you for you, not because of your skin color. (But if your husband ONLY married you because of your skin color, then he has serious issues with himself). There’s too many problems in this world to worry about who’s dating who.

    As for you disrespecting white women, your statements come across being a vindictive woman with low self-esteem. You use the excuse, (and a very lame one), that white women only date ugly black men. Is it fair to assume uneducated, ugly white men date black women because they can’t find smart, pretty white women? Or vice versa? No, it’s not a fair assumption.

    How about your ranting on about how beautiful you are and all the white women in Michigan are fat and ugly. I travel back and forth to Michigan 2-3 times a week from Chicago. I see ugly people and attractive people of all colors across the 3 states. My next door neighbor is an RN, and a gorgeous white woman (who is originally from Portage, Michigan) married to a very handsome, black surgeon. And her pretty sister is engaged to a hot Latin guy. Or look at Heidi Klum and Seal. So much for your outrageous theory that only ugly white women date ugly non-white men.

    As for the town you live in, I assume you’re probably beautiful by default because the other women are just unkept and not fashionable. Race is irrelevant. Any person who puts effort in their looks can be attractive, regardless of color or size. I bet if you, Robin, were to go to Miami (where all races of people are gorgeous) or LA, you would either blend in, or not even be noticed at all. Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder. I personally know of so many people from the Chicago area, and (Chicago does have some good looking people), who are arrogant and think they are Adonises or Goddesses, and when they go to Miami or LA for “the Industry”, they either face very tough competition or are practically invisible.

    People date or marry people for various reasons or none at all. Do you really believe the attactive black women date Robert De Niro because he’s a handsome guy (maybe during the Godfather and Raging Bull years, but now, ew!) Or the blonde bombshells that share Hugh Hefner only dig him because he’s just so muscular and fine looking.

    My advice to you Robin, please see a therapist. You must have your paranoia of people staring at you and your husband taken care of immediately. It’s all in your mind. Maybe these women you accuse of staring at you and your husband are thinking, “Why the hell is that couple staring at me?” You really need to lighten up, Robin. You make a Klansman look good natured.

    I didn’t even bother to read your whole response. Ignorant??? I’m not that at all. White women and non black women hate black women and guess what? You are just mad because I speak the truth. It’s true, that most ugly black men are with you ugly white women…right? No need to respond, because I don’t come on this site often.:)


  66. on Thu 7 Aug 2008 at 05:03:30 ironbutterfly

    So Abagond, what is the answer? White men don’t want BW and BM are “available”. Any suggestions? Just die sad and alone?

    You are a WM, you like BW. Are there others out there? If there are others out there like you, how do you connect with them?


  67. Wow, I wish I had the answer. I wish I could wave a wand and give every black woman a good husband. But the world is not like that.

    Check out this post if you have not seen it already:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/why-so-few-black-men-marry-black-women/


  68. on Fri 8 Aug 2008 at 15:30:59 Ironbutterfly

    Yeah, Abagond. I had already read that one, hence, the question. I meant to say BM are NOT available. But, one monkey don’t stop no show.

    Thank you for writing things like this. It is funny how you as a WM can see BW in such an intimatel light but somehow SOME BM don’t or just aren’t bothered with it. That seems funny/strange/ironic/sad.


  69. Ironbutterfly:

    It made me sad to read what you typed, but it’s true and it is a sad thing.

    I think BW, and in general, any woman should simply just find and be with the man who loves and respects her, that is all.

    In reference to love, there is nothing else to look for.


  70. on Sat 20 Sep 2008 at 20:13:33 Samatha Galland

    White men have been sexing the black woman for so long, he is too common with her. He had rights to her body when her own man wasn’t allowed to touch her. The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people. This is the reason why very few Black Americans that are 100% African.


  71. on Sat 20 Sep 2008 at 20:23:13 Samatha Galland

    Correction… White men have been sexing the black woman for a long time and he is now common with her. He had rights to her body when her own man wasn’t allowed to touch her. The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people. This is the reason why very few Black Americans are 100% African. Maybe because the lonely black man and white woman was always at home waiting for their partners, they took an interest in each other.


  72. on Sat 20 Sep 2008 at 21:59:11 mynameismyname

    True that, Samantha,

    Black women and white men have a history in this country that NO ONE wants to even mention, let alone explore and discuss.

    This is a large reason behind the dismal marriage/dating rate between the two.

    Also, in this society, black men are given a sense of physical/sexual desirability that black women don’t. That explains why it’s very common for a black man to be seen as handsome and “sexy” but still taboo for a black woman to be seen as being on par with non-black women, physically. It explains why the hangups about hair texture and shades of brown skin vex waayy more black women than black men. It explains why several black men have became superstars in Hollywood while black women still struggle in Tinsletown. And most damning, it explains why black men are far more likely to be in an interracial relationship than a black woman.


  73. abagond Says:
    Wed 25 Jun 2008

    “White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black. Not because their parents are against it, not because their friends are against it, not because white society is against it – because they themselves are against it!”

    I don’t think this generalization applies to the white man in the picture. But it is true family acceptance (mostly older generations) and societal stigma are factors. I am speaking from my own personal experience. It is inevitable that, over time, these artificial barriers will diminish more and more.


  74. @Samantha Galland.

    I agree with their premise of your comments, but, there is one part of your comments that bothered me.

    This wording: “The White man and the Black woman pretty much came together and recreated a different type of black people.” “Came together”?

    From my study of the history of slavery, Reconstruction, and Jane Crow segregation in America, Black women did not “come together” willingly with White men to create the race of people now known in the United States as Black Americans.

    Enslaved Black women were either raped, or sexually coerced during slavery, Reconstruction and segregation. A woman who is enslaved has no rights to tell the master not to rape her, and many, many Black women (and girls) were forced with sex and pregnancy against their will.

    Your comment comes across as if stating that Black women could not wait to be raped and forcibly impregnated by Black-women hating White males (slave master, his sons, his uncles, White slave overseer.)

    And not to be forgotten are the many White males who did not own slaves who lived in the surrounding county, who sexually forced themselves on many Black females: poor White males who joined the “Paddy Rollers”; poor White males who raped a Black woman traveling from plantation to plantation, to visit her family sold away from her.

    It was not just the White slave master who raped Black women and passed his rapist blood into black people; many poor White males did the same. Black women had no say so in this.

    They were the prey of ANY WHITE MALE, therefore, there was no “coming together” between White male rapists and raped Black females. Coming together involves consent and respect.

    And White males by and large in America, have shown minimal consent and respect towards Black women where Black women’s bodies, minds, and hearts have been. I do agree with you on this statement:


    “This is the reason why very few Black Americans that are 100% African.”

    Agreed.

    All Black Americans have to do is look in a mirror and see the evidence of White male hatred of black women. We are living evidence of a race of men who have such vicious contempt for a race of women who done White men no earthly wrong. Even those Black people who are very dark-skinned carry genetic blood of rapists in their veins, as a DNA test will confirm.

    Please be careful how you word statements.

    There is overwhelming documentation that proves that Whites males were anything but gentlemanly and humane towards Black women.
    Or that they “asked” for the consent of Black women and girls, right beofre they brutally raped and impregnated them.

    That is not what “coming together” means to me.

    And there still is much today in their behaviour towards Black women, that shows that many of them still would not give the humanity of Black women the time of day.

    Pardons for the history class, but, statements like “came together” come as if Black women willingly helped change the DNA structure of Black people can be misconstrueded by other people who can take such a comment to mean that Black women (and Black girls) enjoyed having their black people’s bloodline polluted by White rapist blood.


    “Maybe because the lonely black man and white woman was always at home waiting for their partners, they took an interest in each other.”

    The history of BM/WW has a different context. White women, unlike White men, could not go out and casually have sex with any Black man, free or enslaved. White women were put on a pedestal to be the “bearers” of the race, and therefore, to keep the White family/race bloodline “pure”, White women could not have children from any man but a White man.

    I would not say that is was as simple as White women and Black men were sitting at home “waiting for their partners”, as the White woman could not tell the White male to get out and leave, since White women could not own property like White men (when they married, they lost property rights.)

    But, yes, the White woman was left alone on her marriage bed many a night while her White husband went out raping all the Black females he could lay his hands on; the Black man could do nothing to defend their Black partners against White male lust. All he could do was comfort her as best he could OR not hate on her for something she had no control over anymore than he had control over White male’s actions of forced genetic annihilation against Black people.

    Another thing about WW/BM—–anytime two groups of people are KEPT from each other, a type of momentum builds up, and a type of rubber-band attraction occurs. Because they had been denied each other for so long, this rubber-band attraction can, and will occur. (That is what happens when you pull a rubber band so tight: it snaps back towards the opposite areas held in resistance, and control.)

    Both (WW/BM) will want to seek out and “discover” each other as much as possible. And that is what they did, coming on the heels of the abolition of legal segregation.

    That is what the White man created with his lies against Black men as rapists of White women: lies that built up into mythic proportions.

    The biggest rapists of all time in this country has been the White man, everyone who knows American history knows that.

    The White man knows that.

    Once White women got away from Daddy and started seeing Black men (during the Civil Rights Movement), they found out that Black men were just like any other race of men: no better, no less.

    But, when people are denied each other for so long (due to lies and stereotypes) there will be a desire to find out what it is they feel they are missing. That is what happened between WW and BM.

    In the case of BW/WM, I would not say that Black women are common to WM. How so? Am I to understand you to mean that WM can still rape at will BW, even in 21ST Century America, and still get away with it? That White men of today, 21ST Century America have dated so many Black women that they are tired of them? That White men of today 21ST Century America have been constantly TALKING/SPEAKING to Black women on a daily basis, the way they would speak to and acknowledge White, Asian, Latina women, and now those White men are experts on the feelings and minds of Black women of today?

    How can White male rapists of the past create an image of Black women being “common” to White men of today in the minds of present-day White American males?

    How can Black women be “common” to White men, when most White men do not acknowledge Black women as individual human beings? When most White men treat Black women as if Black women are invisible?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @mynameismyname.

    “Black women and white men have a history in this country that NO ONE wants to even mention, let alone explore and discuss.This is a large reason behind the dismal marriage/dating rate between the two.”

    Very much agree with you.

    For many people it is far easier to discuss the cruelties that so many, many Black men faced at the hands of sadistic lynchers who physically castrated defenseless Black men. (And that history SHOULD be spoken of as well.)

    But, then again, it is more easier for White males to discuss the castrations of Black males during lynching because White males fear castration like any other male (unless of course THEY are doing the castration, the way so many White males did to defenseless Black males.)

    Not to mention the fact that Black women were raped, whipped, abused and forcibly impregnated BECAUSE they were Black women, NOT because they were women who happened to be Black.

    The thought of discussing what was done to Black women would sicken one’s stomach. And why is that?

    Because White men then KNEW that what they were doing to Black women and girls was abominable, hateful, and morally wrong, and they feared that Black men would do to White women what White men did to Black women for over 450 years. White men still fear that……that what goes around, comes round, and that one day the chickens definitely will come home to roost. But, not much chance of such a thing happening. Not much chance of Black men hatefully mistreating White women the way White men have hatefully mistreated Black women. Many Black men, like many Black women, are too busy getting on with their lives to be seeking revenge.

    But, try telling that to the many White men who fear that history will come knocking on their door for historical payback.

    That is why many Americans (White, and YES, Black) DO NOT WANT TO TALK about mass gang-rapes against Black women.

    It would take much strength to face this most sick, perverted and depraved chapter in American history, which is why NO one brings it up.

    A few brave souls out there do, but, most Americans could not handle facing up to America’s most filthiest era.

    Sexual intimacy is one of the most private and personal aspects of a human being’s existence, and that White men of slavery/Reconstruction/segregation have degraded and defiled that has left more than a bad taste in the mouth of Black Americans.

    The wounds from such nasty mistreatment still live with us, the vestiges of such horrific maltreatment still live with us…………….the LEGACY of such racist/sexist hate still lives on in how millions of White men still have the audacity to think they THEY are better than Black women, when it is White men whose race has the history of crimes against the humanity of Black women.

    “Also, in this society, black men are given a sense of physical/sexual desirability that black women don’t. That explains why it’s very common for a black man to be seen as handsome and “sexy” but still taboo for a black woman to be seen as being on par with non-black women, physically. It explains why the hangups about hair texture and shades of brown skin vex waayy more black women than black men. It explains why several black men have became superstars in Hollywood while black women still struggle in Tinsletown. And most damning, it explains why black men are far more likely to be in an interracial relationship than a black woman.”

    True.

    Women are penalized more if they do not fit some idea of “beauty”. With White/Eurocentric “beauty” as the standard, Black women have much to prevail against.

    Unlike women, men are not prized for any man-created “ideal of beauty”, but by their physical prowess, ability to get as many women they can, the size of their paycheck.

    Since Black women’s beauty cannot compete against the many lies of White women’s “beauty” many Black women who do not physically come close to White features are constantly left out of the dating/marriage market.

    That is not the fault of Black women—it is the fault of White men and their centuries old lies against the beauty of Black women.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    @John.

    “I don’t think this generalization applies to the white man in the picture.”

    But, that is just THAT ONE WHITE MAN in that picture. One White man married to one Black woman. Some White men have the balls to stand up for what they want.

    Sadly, many White men do not have the balls to stand up to their families, community and white-run country known as America.


    “It is inevitable that, over time, these artificial barriers will diminish more and more.”

    And what “period of time” will that be?

    One hundred years?

    Five hundred years?

    One thousand years?

    Five thousand years?

    Ten thousand years?

    Keep in mind, white people destroyed much from Black/West African people when they enslaved and tore away centuries of knowledge and skills that Black/West African peoples had before they had the misfortune of crossing paths with rapacious Whites.

    Much has been lost due to White supremacy hatred, just as much has been lost due to White male hatred of Black women.

    I would not count on many White men growing some backbone and treating Black women as human beings anytime soon.

    Hell, White men have had over 450 years to beat down and use Black women, and NOT be held accountable for that mistreatment, so why should White men now start seeing Black women with new and more respectful “eyes?

    Why should White men now, apologize and extend the olive branch of reconciliation towards and asking for forgiveness, from Black women?

    White men have treated Black women as invisible for centuries, why should they decide to grow backbones and a conscious…….NOW?

    Not much chance of them according Black women respect when they have not had much reason to do it in the last few centuries.


  75. Right, I do not see how it is inevitable.

    As to the picture, I chose it because it showed a white man with a black woman and their visibly black children. It was a hard picture to find!

    Ask yourself: how often do you see a white man with black children who are his own?


  76. Ann:

    I wrote a post on white men and black women in slave days. I doubt you will like it, but I still would like your comments. Please be gentle (!!!), but do not hold back either – if that makes sense.

    Here it is:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/white-men-and-black-women-in-slave-days/

    I want to do a post on the history white men raping black women – under slavery, Jim Crow and now. Any references you can provide would be appreciated.


  77. @Abagond.

    “I wrote a post on white men and black women in slave days. I doubt you will like it, but I still would like your comments. Please be gentle (!!!), but do not hold back either – if that makes sense.”

    I will be honest with you in my response.

    For this comment:

    “I want to do a post on the history white men raping black women – under slavery, Jim Crow and now. Any references you can provide would be appreciated.

    I will refer you to my Trilogy, “Missing White Woman Syndrome”:

    Pay particular attention to Parts 1 and 2.

    I will go over to your post and read it and leave my comments there.

    What many people erroneously do is CONCENTRATE on slavery, and forget wholly about Reconstruction (or better yet, its destruction before it had a chance to begin), and people also forget about Jane Crow segregation, and the mistreatment of Black women by White men during these two eras, after slavery.

    White male hatred of Black women did not end with the abolition of slavery…..it continued on for another 100 years, well up to the 1970s.


  78. Oops!

    I forgot to include the links to my “White Woman Trilogy”:

    http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/missing-pretty-white-woman-syndrome-part-1/

    http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2007/08/06/missing-white-woman-syndrome-part-2/

    http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/missing-pretty-white-woman-syndrome-conclusion/

    That is just for starters.

    After I read your post you mentioned, I will give you more reading materials to better enlighten you on how white men mistreated black women during and AFTER slavery.


  79. I am so glad I found this blog. I have been hearing people discussing this issue on tv and on certain afternoon radio shows and the blame always seems to be placed on the BW. I am finally glad to see someone who sees what I see. I am a BW, I live in Alabama and I have never been approached by a white man. While I agree that there is some hesitation or nervousness on the part of BW to date outside the race, I also don’t think the opportunity to do so is there as much as some people like to say. I am sorry, but here in Alabama especially, I do not see WM knocking people out of the way to get to a sistah. I see what Blanc2 said and that is that we seem to be invisible to men of other races. I wish all the world could be as open as people are in NY or LA to this. But even the time I lived in Houston, TX did not produce a knock on the door. BTW I am an educated BW with a Master’s degree, and while slightly overweight I consider myself attractive.


  80. I think that you tend to see more black men with white women than you do white men with black woman because of the way the white man was raised by his family. If his family raised him to conceive stereotypes whether they are racist or not then many white men will have a reluctance to date and marry black women. While it does not anger me to see a white man with a black woman, but there have been many white men who tell me that sexually they do fantasize about the fine sisters with the butt, full lips, and big breasts. It would be the same reason or different that black men like white women. I know I like white women and I would not mind a fine sister but I have generally never been attracted to any, although I have some black female friends who understand the attraction I have for white women.


  81. Whiteladieslover,

    I agree. While you see white women crossing the line to marry black men, white men do not do so in large numbers because they are raised to uphold whitness and white privilege. Plus they have to marry white women in order to have white babies. Without white babies, white society collapses. Therefore, it’s up to the white men to carry on the family line.

    Corporate, Professional, and Capitalistic pressures is another. Having a black wife IS A LIABILITY! A lot of higher ups don’t like the idea of white men with black wives so they punish them economically and socially. Remember Guess Who?
    _________
    La Reyna


  82. This is an American thing. In Europe, there are just as many bw/wm couples as bm/ww couples.


  83. on Wed 5 Nov 2008 at 06:31:00 mynameismyname

    La Reyna,

    Out of curiosity, do you think it’s equally a liability for a white woman in professional/corporate settings to have a black husband?


  84. I remember watching a segment on interracial relationships on Sally Jessy Raphael back in 1994, one upper middle class white man by the name of John said he likes to date black women but won’t marry any because of “children”. The guests were angry at him and rightfully so. One white woman who’s married to a black man said that it’s people like him is continuing racism. I concur anf a lot more. He doesn’t want to give up his white privilege, which he valued the most.

    What say you, Abagond?

    Stephanie


  85. on Fri 28 Nov 2008 at 17:29:09 mynameismyname

    La Reyna,

    You never answered my question, from post #84.


  86. Mynameismyname,

    It is somewhat for a white woman in corporate America. But since so few women rise in corporate America, few pressures were placed on white women with black husbands. They were not crucial to the maintenance of whiteness to the extent white men in corporate America are.

    They can be married to black or other men of color with fewer penalties. That’s my opinion.

    La Reyna


  87. Ann,
    Thanks so much for fleshing out the many historical reasons why BW/WM IRR’s are more rare in American than WM/non-BW IRR’s. This is a major reason why, today, any WM/non-BM in America who wants to SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY BW MUST demonstrate RESPECT FOR THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW. WM/non-BM should also steer clear of RACIST TENDENCIES such as acting as if BW are INVISIBLE SECOND CLASS WOMEN or NOT TREATING THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH BW WITH THE SAME RESPECT THAT THEY TREAT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER NON-WW. ANY WM/non-BM who is UNWILLING TO RESPECT THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW has NO BUSINESS APPROACHING BW FOR ANY RELATIONSHIP. It’s important to note that it was a BW/WM relationship (the Lovings) that legalized Black/White marriages in America (non-Black/White marriages had been accepted in America long before the Loving’s case) and that there are many EUROPEAN WM who have/are in successful, positive dating/marriage relationships with BW. American WM/non-BM can LEARN A LOT FROM THEM.


  88. This is completely stupid. Saying that White men or women are racist because they have lower rates of marrying outside of their race is ridiculous. Since there is no latino category listed I am assuming that most latinos are probably lumped in with the white category which would make whites roughly 80% of the population. Considering that if you were to randomly combine a white person with any other person there would be an 80% chance they would marry another white person. Blacks and Asians would have much lower odds of randomly marrying within their race (roughly 14% and 5%). As such the fact that whites are more likely to marry within their ethnic category than other groups shows us nothing more than that there are simply a lot more white people out there as potential mates. The only statistical anomalies in the data shown above is the fact that asian women and black men are much more likely to marry outside of their race their respective gender counterparts. Stop the BS with trying to show that this makes whites somehow racist.


  89. There is so much stuff to be commented … but I stick to a few points:

    Why are so many people screaming “RACIST!!!11eleven” when someone says he/she prefers to keep his/hers relationship in race or excludes certain races from his/her choice.
    Noone cares if I say that I prefer blonds over brunettes but if I say I prefer whites over blacks I am a racist? What those people are asking for is no liberalisation but sexual gleichschaltung against personal preferences (why don’t we arrenge all mariages with some kind of lottery!?). It’s no racism to say you do not like big lips, curly hair and wide curves. Someone having preferences which in majortiy are fulfilled by certain groups does not require him to behave bad in any way over the others.
    If I say someone does not deserve the same payment as me because he/she is black or should not be allowed to do certain activities or whatsoever, THAT is racism. If I say that black (black is a placeholder for any attribute here) men/women are not so beautiful in my opinion it is my personal opinion and preference – NO racism!
    PS: to prevent angry answers: I agree that it is racism if someone says that he does not want a black mariage because it would mean black children.

    It is difficult for me to state on the B&W issue as black people are very scarce here in Germany. Out of all black women I met so far (you can count them on one or two hands) there was one I would call attractive and she was totally dumb. So I simply had no real opportunity to find out if I have any special attitude to black women.

    About the racism which has been stated several times in different forms:
    Here is what I’ve encountered in several occasions; I have no numbers or essays to prove it but I think underlying racism is more common to women than to men.
    I once stumbled into some kind of black scene bar with some friends in berlin. I mean there were approximately 90% blacks. Most of them were very open to us and I had a chat with some guys instantly. I also had a long chat with a black girl. But these black girls were treating the non-black girls in this bar like an impurity. It was totally ok for them to chat with non-black guys but they were like “You white %bad words% girls pls stay away of our black men!”.
    I also was once out with a friend (russish), his new girl friend and his sister and I was some kind of engaged with her. When my friend and his girl friend were dancing and we on our own she was prattling something like “WTH is my brother hanging around with this german %bad word%!?”. I asked her if she noticed that I was german too, but she “explained” me that that was something different. I don’t get the difference until today but I got to the point that this is a very common female behavior. Maybe I am totally wrong but it could explain some of the statistics given here.

    And finally to pick up Nick’s (previous post) number example: From a mathematical point of view the likelyhood for a group of 80% to stay within this group is 94.12% if all groups are perfectly mixed. As there is seperation into districts etc the value has to be corrected upwards. The bigger a group is the more likely you stay in it. Of course this statement contradicts with the fact that also minor groups tend to stick to their own in praxis. I think there is no practicable mathematics for human relationships anyway ;)


  90. I think it is perfectly natural to date and marry within one’s race. I see nothing wrong or racist in that.

    Some men like white women more than black women and others like black women more than white women. Again, there is nothing racist in that. Men cannot like all women equally and much of what they like is probably inborn and beyond their control.

    The argument of this post is not that. Instead I am arguing that so few white men marry black women – only 1 in 400 of married white men in America where 1 woman in 8 is black – because they are racist.

    I do not have any hard numbers on this, but at a guess I would say that at least 10% of white men think black women are good-looking enough to want to date. The number is probably higher that that, but let us assume it is 10%.

    If so, then for every white man who likes black women, only about 1 in 40 winds up marrying one. Why? It is not because they think they are ugly. It is certainly not a lack of opportunity, not in America. I am arguing it is because they do not want black children – or their parents do not want black grandchildren and will give them hell about it. And it is that – the bit about not wanting black children – that is racist.


  91. on Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 08:03:04 mynameismyname

    I think it goes further than just not wanting black offspring. I believe that whites just see blacks as inherently inferior to them. And of course, there’s the terse history between white men and black women in this country. We can’t forget or overlook that.


  92. on Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 08:07:42 mynameismyname

    Also,

    You seem to skip over the fact that black American women FIRMLY stick to black men. Black American women, the overwhelimg majority, want black men EXCLUSIVELY. You can see this in internet dating sites, for example. Hell, just by talking to various black women. I’ve had black women become almost hostile with me when I even merely asked if they’d be involved with a white male.

    That’s one of the main reasons why the marriage/dating stats for both populations are so dismal: the great majority of black women are unwilling to be involved with a white male. And of course, this brings us back to that grim history.


  93. True – there is that history and there are black women who only want to marry a black man. Yet, despite all that, black women are more likely marry outside their race than are white men.


  94. Here’s another reason why Black women won’t marry outside our race is what one Black professional woman said:

    “Yeah, but there are days when I walk out of a boardroom at Kraft Foods and think it would be nice, frankly, to call somebody and say, “Baby, you’re not going to believe what happened today.” To be able to share that would really make a difference…

    I have several friends who say, “Hey, I want somebody who knows what it feels like to go in the boardroom and kick butt and come back out.” That may mean you have to marry someone that’s not black. I know that may have certain implications for our race that are very, very difficult, such as keeping wealth in the black family and having kids we can pass stories down to…

    I do feel sad about it. Our experience as a race is a unique one and a special one, one that I would love to see continue.”

    Many Black women like the woman above do feel that way. They want to stay Black and promote Black love.

    What say you?

    Stephanie B.


  95. Here’s another one, this time is by Robyn Thorpe, on the importance of dating Black men and keeping Black heritage:

    “Robyn Thorpe: Believe it or not I completely agree with you. Race is only one component of what makes a good marriage or relationship. You decided that marrying a Black man was not a priority, and that is your right. You also decided that your outlook, interests and goals were not intertwined with your being Black and that is your right too.

    My choice to not attempt to date white men is not based on any hatred or distrust of the white community. I would never attempt to alienate any human being based on their color and I would never call any person a mongrel, and if that had happened to you, it is a pity that you had to deal with such hateful people. My desire to have a Black mate is based on my love for my people and is not a judgment call on other people. Just as you decided that being Black was just a color, and does not color your outlook on life, your interests and your goals, I have come to a different opinion and that is my right. Being Black is more than my complexion and that I want a Black man who feels that his African heritage does color who he is and does shape his outlook, interests and goals. So what you call cutting off, should really be called settling for what I don’t want, which would not be fair to the man or me. Maybe I will change my POV about having a Black man one day but today is not the day. I think we all have infrequent chances for good happy marriages and I am glad that you have one. And I liked your family example of dating and marrying interracially to other people of color. Interracial dating is not a Black man or White man option. I have family members who have married other people of color and are very happy.”
    ___________________
    Stephanie B.


  96. on Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 04:32:50 RealityChecker

    While there is an imbalance of black male professionals compared to black female professionals, black male professionals do exist.

    Sure finding them and building a connection takes work, but doesn’t anything that is worth having if that is what one truly wants?


  97. on Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 06:25:11 mynameismyname

    Good point, Realitychecker.

    But I think a lot of female professionals, or just females in general, need to be more honest in what they want in a mate.

    I find that many women are looking for a good man, sure. But one with a fat pocket. Or the strong potential to have one in the future! When they don’t see that, they throw the “deuce”, so to speak, and then cry about “no good men”.

    But that’s a whole ‘nother conversation!


  98. Hmm … I would say that’s no good point at all. It’s simply a fact that there are not enough well educated black men for all the well educated black women (even if ignoring the education factor there are not enough black men for the black women). They can work as hard as they want, they can not all have a well educated black man as long as they keep to monogamy. So, many black women have no choice but to be lonely or marry interracially.
    And your long-term-prostitute-theory is pretty farfetched and unsound, mynameismyname. It’s more a spoiled projection of a sterotype women had been forced to fulfil in the past, imho.


  99. In America there are about a half million more black women with university degrees than black men.


  100. on Tue 6 Jan 2009 at 04:00:39 mynameismyname

    Jacob,

    Are you black?

    Where did I say that all women are out for money when seeking a mate?

    I’m just noting the existence of a certain mentaility that exists among many. One that I think hinders the possibilities for a fufilling mate. That’s all I was pretty much saying, perhaps in a playfully blunt way that got misread.


  101. on Tue 6 Jan 2009 at 04:32:08 mynameismyname

    Good point with the stats about the college degree disparity between black women and black men in the U.S.

    Of course, as “Jacob” noted, black American females already outnumber black American males by a bit.

    Now, here’s where it gets interesting:

    Black male BA degree holders make about $10,000 more than their black female counterparts who hold the same degree. YET they still make 28% less than their white male counterparts who also have a BA degree.

    On the other hand, black female BA degree holders earn about the similar income (if not higher in many cases) as their white female counterparts who also have a BA degree.

    What does this all suggest?


  102. That employers are racist mainly against black men, not black women.


  103. Blanc2,

    I take issue with the fact that you think mixed women are “super attractive” or extra than other women. I think monoracial black women are super attractive and extrodinary as well. I know white women with mixed kids who think that they are a little above little monoracial black kids. And I know monoracial black kids who obess with being light with “good hair” and whose self-esteem is very low because of these ideals.


  104. I hear people say that – mixed children are better looking. Why do they say that? It does not seem to be true, so it makes me think something strange is going on behind that statement.


  105. Ihear that alot too…I think its because the child ends up exotic looking to both races.

    Remember you said exotic is relative…so if a child ends up with features that are from both races…they would be exotic to both as well.


  106. aba said: I hear people say that – mixed children are better looking.
    *********

    In comparison to whom????

    I don’t think any group of women is better looking than any other. It’s sexist to compare and forces women to go against each other.


  107. Kat – he ment when their are IR couples with offspring – people will act like those offspring are better looking then people of a single race.

    If I tell someone that I think my niece is beautiful I always get the – of course she is – she is mixed..which is dumb…I have seen some really ugly mixed kids. Some how the perception is out there that mixed kids are always very attractive.

    And like I said above, – I think it has to do with them aving exotic attributes for each race they are apart of.


  108. Right, it is said of mixed children.


  109. I am a Black female of brown complexion and very good looking as men of all races have shown me by their attention throughout my life. I have socialized with Black people and White people and my experiences has revealed that WM feel sexually inferior to Black men basically due to inferior penis size but, added to this and more important, is the White man’s racism that he brings into the relationship with a BW, this stops romance from developing because, he really wants the Black woman as an exotic sexual jungle fantasy and his heart is unable to develop a feeling of love for her because she does not fit his image of female White-value. This I believe is why usually the WM does not consider marrying a BW. This model of the WM is for 98% of his race but, I do believe as generations evolve the percentage will gradually decrease.

    The BM marries or has a WW for a girlfriend for the same reason the WM is stifled in his ability to evolve a love interest for the BW. The WW generally is motivated toward the BM for sexual satisfaction (that is why the WM has historically feared the BM’s economic liberation, he feared his women would prefer the BM), she also likes the BM for his color, often preferring dark chocolate and for the warm inward spirit that the Black race has.

    BW are more loyal to the race but, since even BM’s are basically romantically biased against a dark skinned woman, a BW would turn to the WM except that his racism is too hard to bear particularly when you may also have sexual frustration.

    Some readers may define my comments as racist but, they are my factual not emotional conclusions. And America’s value preference for light skinned and bi-racial female celebrities as well as our BM celebrities continually majority choice of them for wives only supports what I have said. BW affirm it with their weave-ins and European hair wigs and colors (blond, red, etc.) as they are trying to give at least an imitation of White beauty to make themselves acceptable to be desired for love, instead of being primarily viewed as lust objects and “beast of burdens”. Fortunately, I do believe the passage of future years will bring in balance the basis for the value of beauty and love more equally for the BW who is dark (brown to black complexion) for indeed color is quite beautiful, as supported by White persons lust for suntanning regardless of risk of skin cancer.

    Abagond, you asked for comment on your post about White men and Black women during slavery:
    My grandfather was half White because he was the son of his White slave master who raped his slave mother, on the Birmingham Alabama plantation on which he was born in slavery. I knew my grandfather, his daughter, my mother, sent me every summer to vacation with him and his wife, my grandmother. For most African Americans it is their great grandfather who may have experienced slavery, but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother; therefore, is why I had a grand parent who had actually been a slave. My grandfather looked White, including blond silky straight hair and not having a birth certificate, he said he estimates he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished and he was thus set free, later he moved up North. He died when I was about age-11 and he often spoke about the “bucks” on the plantation.
    My mother and her sisters by definition and looks were mulatto but, all chose to marry dark complexioned African American men who appeared to have no racial mixture. However, their obvious White racial mixture did not merit them any respect from the racist White men in the community who had the habit of sexually assaulting black girls by groping them as they walked by and other sexual familiarities, so my grandfather and uncle kept their shut guns loaded and ready for battle. And the fear of this battle made my mother and aunts the few black girls who were not molested by these filthy racists.
    My uncle, in contrast to Moma and her sisters, apparently mainly took from the African gene pool in my grandparents genealogy because, his only indication of bi-racial was his straight silky coal black hair. His only girlfriend during his entire life was an African American woman whose racial mixture made her vanilla complexion so deathly pale that as a child I thought her rather ugly. But she adored my uncle.
    I could tell you of more assaults like the poison-death of one of my mothers sisters who did not live past childhood but, I won’t continue.


  110. As a white male, I can tell you that historic disapproval from society, family or peers have more to do with the small numbers of WM marrying BW than anything else. However, it is inevitable that the numbers will increase, because over the last decade, there has been more acceptance of these relationships. I have always believed that most WM could be attracted to BW and, if nobody interferes, they would be more inclined to pursue these relationships. There are so many beautiful African American women and I can’t imagine the average heterosexual WM not being attracted to them, even if they don’t take the initiative to approach them. Men are men, no matter the ethnicity.


  111. A White Guy: Answer me this, something I have always wondered about: how come when a beautiful black woman walks by the black men will look at her in the way that you would expect but with white men it is like she is not even there?


  112. Suzy: a great and interesting comment, especially the bit about how racism affects white men in their relationships with black women. Thanks! And also the part about your grandfather too!


  113. I have heard some of these black women say that some of these white men do notice them discreetly, but they are not bold enough to be forward about it. There is still some social conditioning that inhibits them.


  114. Thanks.


  115. on Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 13:50:21 mynameismyname

    Suzy’s lengthy comment is another example of the hangups about skin shade that many black women exhibit. Interesting post tho; she has a lot of issues.

    Of course, social disapproval is a key reason why IR rates between blacks and whites are low but doesn’t that tie in to what I was saying earlier? The idea that black is inferior prevents people from being associated with it?


  116. Right because the so-called social disapproval is just racism in motion.


  117. I think some of you have seen this, but just in case here is a pretty sickening account of a white man dating a black woman – I think it goes to what Suzy said:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/interracial-loving/


  118. You are highlighting the negative WM, who date BW for some kind of fantasy or experiment. In other forums, I frequently complained about this type of WM. There are decent and respectful WM, who are nothing like this.


  119. Abagond,

    I’ve been to Roissy’s website. He’s another intellectual skinhead in the mode of Steve Sailer. A lot of his writings are racist, sexist, misogynistic trash. I read the hate-filled reponses on My Inaugural Balls. Those hateful reponses makes Don Imus infamous 2007 rant on Rutgers womens’ basketball team like child’s play.

    Roissy, like Half Sigma, thrives on divisiveness and racism/sexism.

    I think you should start a mini hatewatch blog to warn people about hate sites such as Sailer’s, Roissy’s, etc.

    I was steaming mad all day today after reading such hateful garbage.

    Stephanie B.


  120. Recycled for further discussion.


  121. La Reyna: you say that sometimes – “recycled for further discussion” – what does it mean?


  122. La Reyna: Who is Half Sigma?

    A hate-watch blog is a good idea, but I already have too many blogs as it is! It is more worthy than my “Black Beauty of the Day”, but it would also take way more time to do well. But if I come across a site like that, I could “feature” it here, like I did with Steve Sailer.


  123. A White Guy: I have no idea how common the Roissys of the world are, but I threw it out there because it goes to Suzy’s point.

    I have not seen any surveys or studies on this, but my own feeling from all that I have heard is that it goes something like this in regard to white men and their willingness to date and marry black women (offer your own estimates – or, better yet, any studies or surveys you know of!):

    70% Feel no physical attraction to most black women.

    20% Are willing but have not done anything about it – lack of opportunity, fear of what friends and family would say, etc.

    7% Go out with black women but just for the sex.

    2% Interested in a long-term relationship, but not marriage.

    1% Go out with black women and would be serious about marriage just like they would with a white woman.

    Siditty, if you are reading this, I would like to know what you think! And A White Guy too. And anyone else with an opinion!


  124. To Abagond,

    It means that a hot topic that needs to be discussed further.

    As for Half-Sigma, he’s a Sailerite who lives in NYC. He criticizes people of Color all the time using Sailer’s theories and tactics. He’s a hatemonger like the rest of the right-wing blogosphere and needs to be exposed.

    La Reyna


  125. one thing you didn’t mention is fear of what black men think. I have met white men that are concerned about what a black man might think when seeing them with a woman of colour. Also white men sometimes lack confidence & assume that all black women only want to date black men, which is not true. Some are overtly racist & don’t want to their whiteness to disappear when they have children. thats why in the past 1/4 black mixed women were most popular with white men-it normally meant their children would look white.


  126. Interesting. I never thought of it that way (fear of black men and how white octoroon children look). However, while some octoroons could pass for white, not all of them would be able to.


  127. I have dated a few black women, I am a white man. I married a black woman too, although our marriage did not work out it had nothing to do with races or back grounds but to with different relgious views. I hate to sound like i am or have closed off certain races but I have, I know I want to be with and be married to a black woman. I find there personality and easy goingness so refreshing, the woman i have dated that are black been more relaxed and fine with being there self then anyone else. I am currently dating a darkskin woman, and she seems to be every thing I dreamed of in a woman. I find black women much more attractive than white women. I live in the deep south and well every once in a while people have problems with a interracial couple, but most part i dont feel too judged or I dont let it get to me. I do find in areas that are mostly black to be more accepted, I even noticed black females smile at me when they see me with a black womanit it as they have no problem with it. That has been my exsprience, I feel sorry for the white guys that will not date a black woman because they have no idea what there missing at all, I guess saying once you go black you never go back is true in my case.


  128. first of all I think you are freaking racist!!! How dear you. This is just an example of the whole brain-washing of white race on to other races. I think its funny how the white race went into other countries RUNIED them then made the people of those cultures hate each other.
    Listen, How many black women have you seen that you can say they are not as actractive? How many white man are really educated anyway? Do you think that all white men look like the damn guys on those reality dating shows? Please give me a break and who even says that dating a white man mens your life is going to be so much better. I think you need to get over you stupid superiority complex.
    Yeah white men aren’t marrying black women, but they are quick to date them but marry susy home making when his parents forbids him to marry a black chick. Even more, while he is married to his little white wifey, he will still be creeping with the black chick on the side.
    I’m not racist but I’m calling you out on your SH@t, don’t ever think that just because you are white you are better than anybody. Its a shame what you guys have done to this world then to go and insult the people whom you have cause hard. Do yourself a favor and read a freaking book.
    You are so damn ignorant and stupid and I your life must be so miserable.


  129. You need to do yourself a favour and read the post more carefully. I never said black women were unattractive or less educated. What I said was that those were excuses and that the true reason why so few white men marry black women is because most of them are racist: they do not want black children.


  130. Like Ahab’s search for the Great White Whale, black racists like abagond and Ann, search for the Great White Defendant is relentless and never-ending. When Tawana Brawley’s and Al Sharpton’s 1987 charge that several white men including prosecutor Steven Pagones (whose name Brawley had picked out of a newspaper article) had abducted and raped the 15 year old was shown in 1988 to be completely false, the Nation said it didn’t matter, since the charges expressed the essential nature of white men’s treatment of black women in this country. When the Duke University lacrosse players were accused of raping a black stripper last year, liberals everywhere treated the accusation as fact, because, just as with the Nation and Tawana Brawley, the rape charge seemed to reflect the true nature of oppressive racial and sexual relations in America.

    To see the actual truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document on Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005, which is discussed by Christopher Chantrill at The American Thinker. (Go to the linked document, then under Victims and Offenders, download the pdf for 2005.)

    In Table 42, “Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender,” we learn that there were 111,590 white victims of rape/sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, which can mean inappropriate touching, is conflated with the crime of rape.) In those 111,590 cases in which a white woman was the victim of rape/sexual assault, the offender was white in 44.5 percent of the cases and black in 33.6 percent of the cases. Of 36,620 cases in which the victim was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally.

    The table does not give statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear:

    In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black women were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

    What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man.

    So Ann’s comment that black men have not attacked WW IS A LIE. As far as what happened a couple hundred years ago, most wm did not rape bw. That is another lie by ANN.


  131. Nicole it is a widely accepted fact that black women were raped in masses during the days of slavery by white men your suggestion that it is a lie is like some1 saying that only 2 million Jews died in the world war 2. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    I have to say think this idea that we all mix and the world becomes a better place is kinda silly we all as human beings we have the same roots and yet there is so much hatred towards our fellow human beings.


  132. Let’s put it this way, there are more ww raped in America every year today then bw raped by wm in any given year during slavery. And no, alot of those bw where not raped. There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.

    Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)

    According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.

    An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003). However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless.


  133. Zero percent – no white men attacked black women in that year. I find that hard to believe. Keep in mind most of my family are police officers. And I am by no means “liberal” nor do I take at face value everything abagond says. But ZERO!!!

    There is difficulty in the black community in general to report crimes. The race issues have created distrust. Rape is a horrible invasion of ones body and mind. Rape is under reported because often the victem is embarressed and lays the plame on themselves. Add to it race issues and I think a black women less likely to report it (regardless of her attackers race). And if her attacker is white – even less likely. But ZERO%. I cant believe that no BWs were assulted by WMs. Its impossible to believe. Some would argue that the WW attacked by BM were over reported and falsified because of racism. That too would be wrong. But ZERO% – seriously only 10 or less total incidents…I am sorry but, thats ridiculous.


  134. dedabets.

    Well said.

    But, I must say that one does not have to be a police officer to have evidence of the so-called “Police Blotter rapist”, to realize, like you said, that many women DO NOT report rape.

    Because of the stigma attached to rape, many women (White, Black, Latina, Native American, Asian, etc.) take this awful incident to their graves.

    Blaming the victim for rape is as old as the human race—-not any chance of that ceasing as long as humans exist on this planet. Not as long as women are devalued in comparison to men.

    The sexist, denigrating approach of societies around the world towards rape is sick enough.

    Now……

    …..add in race, and the effect on a woman, especially a Black woman, and the harm from that rape…..escalates.

    It is no secret of how vicious White men have been towards Black women (and still are): Welfare Queen [when the biggest welfare queens are White people

    http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/black-history-month-welfare-in-black-and-white/

    ….not to mention the nastiest phrases White men have used against Black women for centuries (and still do):

    -Nigger bitch
    -Lascivious
    -and my favourite: UNRAPEABLE

    SO….

    ….It would be very likely that many Black women would not go to the authorities to file rape charges, when this society has vilified and slandered Black women for centuries.

    And since the law works more against Black women (when they DO go to court), and Black women rape victims are believed LESS than White women rape vicitms…

    ….many Black women do not file rape charges, agaqinst either Black men (she’s a traitor to the BC if she does), or White men (“What! That fine upstanding, never has done anything wrong against WOC for over 500 centuries, White man! Mr. Pure as the Driven Snow, White Man!? Committed rape againsta….a….a…Black Woman!? Pshaw! Perish the thought!)

    Therefore, as you so aptly stated, dedabets, many women (but,especially Black women) do not report rape.

    The rapes we know of (arrested/tried/and convicted)…..are just a small drop in the bucket on this horrofic and filthy crime against the humanity of women.

    @Nicole.

    Most crimes are INTRA-RACIAL, NOT INTER-RACIAL.

    Black-on-black crime is still the norm; White-on-white crime, is still the norm.

    As for this:

    “However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless.

    “Dictators” have been with America for centuries—–and still are. And for your information, dictators are found ALL around the world, not just in Africa.

    America as always been a TERRORIST STATE against her Black citizens—-and still is.

    You do not have to shoot a person to be a savage, killer dictator.

    Ask George W. Bush. George, Sr., Ronald Reagan, Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes….etc.

    You don’t have to lay a hand on a person tear a person to pieces.

    That is what America has done to ALL Americans….under the dictatorship of Dubya.

    ….yet, I don’t see you sobbing any tears over that.

    #dedabets:

    “And if her attacker is white – even less likely. But ZERO%. I cant believe that no BWs were assulted by WMs. Its impossible to believe.”

    Once again, well said.

    Only a fool or hater of Black women would state such a lie.

    That Black women have NEVER been believed and still are not is one of many reasons that Black women do not report rape as OFTEN as White women do.

    NO MATTER WHAT THE RACE OF THE ATTACKER IS.


  135. I was raped by a hispanic man and did not report it

    I was beaten by three black women (broken nose and ribs) and did not report it.

    I have been wronged by white people, asian people, black people etc…

    I have also been loved and befriended by black, white, hispanic, asian etc…

    This world is an evil savage place.


  136. “I was raped by a hispanic man and did not report it

    “I was beaten by three black women (broken nose and ribs) and did not report it.”

    Sorry to hear of that. Many people think that a woman who does not report rape is weak, or worse, a liar. But, it takes more strength than one can imagine to continue living and not let such cruelty take you down.

    And for people who think that only men can commit wrongs, well, some of the biggest enemies thatwomen can have in this world, have been women.

    “This world is an evil savage place.”

    I disagree.

    The world itself is not an evil place.

    Human’s viciousness towards each other is what constitutes evil/maltreatment of one human towards another.

    Yes, cruelty is found in all races, just as kindness and compassion is found in all races.

    It remains to what an individual human will do in how they treat another human being.

    It is called free will.

    No one forces anyone to do wrong to another, no matter how many lies the wrongdoer concocts to try to rationalize their wrongdoing with:

    “She/he made me do it.” Bullshit.

    “I could not help myself.” Bullshit.

    “She/he asked for it.” Bullshit.

    We all make decisions in this life. What type of decision we make that we can live with, and how it will affect others, separates the weak-willed (who blame their wrongs on others), and the strong-willed (who keep on living and no matter what the human race has thrown them—-nor do not go out of their way to commit more wrongs against another.

    Nothing is stopping men from being men; nothing is stopping women from being women. By men and women, I mean really being a man or woman, not those who play-act at being a man or a woman.

    The decision is up to that person: either be a woman (or man) and all that comes with it; or be weak like the chaff that is blown about in the wind.

    Speaking for myself, I do not consider humans inherently evil; but, I do go by what I see in how humans react to me.

    Treat me right, and I will reciprocate.

    Treat me wrong, and I have no use for you.

    We get back what we all put into this world.

    Cast sewage upon the waters, and you will get back sewage; cast flowers upon the water, and you will get flowers back. Not all the time; sometimes you will get back bad treatment even when you do right towards someone. Happens.

    Then sometimes you will receive a kindness you did not expect, a soft, word, a gentle gesture—–just when you feel you have been beaten down so much you cannot stand anymore that day.

    Happens.

    The sooner more humans realize and accept that fact, the less evil there will be in this world.

    Then again, it will take thousands of centuries before humans evolve into the supposed “superior” species they claim themselves to be.


  137. on Fri 27 Feb 2009 at 00:51:39 mynameismyname

    Wow, Dedabets, I’m sorry to hear your pain. You’re a strong woman.

    I would pay “Nicole” no mind, they’re doing what many whites do when they confronted with their racism: weakly attemping to flip the script. In this troll’s case, they’re trotting out wack, shaky stats in attempt to deviate from the topic on hand.

    Don’t buy into what he/she is trying to do.


  138. Nicole have a big nerve to come on this blog and make racist comments.

    Yes, wm raped Black women, past and present. Alot of BW are reluctant to report rape and sexual assault for fear of being believed by police, courts, and society. It doesn’t matter the race, but esp. nonblack men. Nonblack men have the power of the police, society, courts, money/connections to discredit Black women victims. That’s the REAL elephant in the room.

    La Reyna


  139. @Nicole.

    You are either the most stupidest person I have ever encountered on the Internet, or you are in serious need of ECT.

    “So Ann’s comment that black men have not attacked WW IS A LIE. As far as what happened a couple hundred years ago, most wm did not rape bw. That is another lie by ANN>

    Lie?

    You take your lie and cram it down your throat and choke on it.

    Back up that lie YOU stated.

    I never said that Black men never raped White women during slavery. Here is what I stated:

    “That is what the White man created with his lies against Black men as rapists of White women: lies that built up into mythic proportions.

    The biggest rapists of all time in this country has been the White man, everyone who knows American history knows that.

    The White man knows that.”

    WM have lied against BM for centuries; WM have raped BW while lynching BM who had romantic liasons with WW during slavery, Reconstruction and segregation. Historical documentation backs up the facts that WM overwhelmingly raped BW moreso than BM raped WW during those eras.

    The rapes of WW by BM were so minimal as to be less than 0.06% of the black population. Any Black man who did rape a WW was rare. Black men knew the results of actually raping a WW, and the cosequences were deadly for that Black man—-and the entire Black community.

    To further illustrate your ignorance and stupidity, lynching records prove that BM were lynched more for the following accusations:

    -Murder
    -Theft
    -Looking at a white person the wrong way
    -Talking back to a white person (it was called “sassing a white person” back then)
    -Wanting to leave a degrading job while working for an abusive white person

    Sone of the crimes were downright sadistic:

    -Lynched for saying “hello” to a WW
    -Lynched for jostling up against a white man’s team of horses

    White men lied, and lied and lied on BOTH BM and BW, and I stand by what I stated: the biggest rapist in America has been the WHITE MAN: Rapist of Native American women, Black/African women, Latina women, Asian women—-a world record.

    That. . .still. . .stands.

    So, when you finish pulling your fist out of your ass after sending it through your digestive system, you apologize for that damned lie.


  140. You’re a moron Ann. “most stupidest” is grammatically incorrect. Listen ANN, I know you lust after white men because you can’t stop talking about them. It’s too bad WM don’t want your nappy ass. Also, More black women have been killed by and raped by other black people then by white men. You’re just a flat out RACIST. You are not backing up any of your claims. I have cited all of my sources. Let’s talk about the present. BM commit murder and rape and many other crimes at a rate far greater then whites. The white man invented everything that you own: Internet, demcracy, TV, Movies, Radio, Cars, Planes, Trains, anti-biotics. You people are still trying to figure out how to straighten your hair. You people sold each other to Europeans.


  141. mynameismyname is a gutless coward. I stated facts and you’re trying to spin them. slavery is making a return to America primarily due to African immigrants bringing their traditional customs with them. In the last year alone, several immigrants from Cameroon have been sentenced for keeping other Cameroonians as slaves. In one particularly gruesome case, African immigrants Louisa Satia and Kevin Nanji were sentenced to nine years in prison for beating, raping and torturing their teenage slave. African slavery is becoming so commonplace in America that the Attorney General has set up something called the Trafficking in Persons and Worker Exploitation Task Force to help put a stop to it.


  142. Nicole – when first you started your response I thought, hmmm – i like the presentation, the logical arguements and use of facts (although I was unsure if they were accurate). But now you expose yourself as a racist. “Straighten her Nappy Hair”. Seriously – when pushed back a little bit you decend to this place. And you wonder why white people are called racist. Its evident your racism is seething just below the surface. And I may share your skin color but that is where the simularities between us ends.

    I would enjoy your debate if you had not decended to such a place. Shame on you.


  143. Ann is crazy. Lie # 1: “It is no secret of how vicious White men have been towards Black women (and still are): Welfare Queen [when the biggest welfare queens are White people.” That is false. There are more WW on welfare because there are about 80 million more ww then bw in America. So of course there will be more ww on welfare. Percentage wise there are many more bw on welfare.

    Lie # 2: “America has always been a TERRORIST STATE against her Black citizens—-and still is.” You’re a far left-wing crackpot so I’m not going to argue anymore with you. Talking to you is like talking to a five year old. Unfortunately, as a nation we have become so trapped in the melodrama of black victimization and white “oppression” that we are in danger of losing all sense of reality. If blacks are oppressed in America, why isn’t there a black exodus? Why do all those black Haitians want to come here? To be oppressed?

    Most Americans living today (white and otherwise) are the descendants of post-Civil War immigrants, who have no lineal connection to slavery at all. Thanks in part to the efforts of the majority of Americans who were not slaves and who are not black, blacks in America today are the richest and freest blacks on God’s green earth. Richer and freer than black citizens of any black nation in the world. The GNP of black America (as black separatists constantly remind their followers) is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous “nation” in the world. To translate this into individual realities, American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of 20 to 50 times those of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were sold.

    The doors of opportunity have been opened and the rules have been made as neutral as they humanly can be to ensure that the competition is fair.

    Is there a level playing field? There is no level playing field for anyone. Short of a totalitarian state that controls the families that individuals are born into,there can be none. A free society is inevitably a society of great inequalities, because individuals themselves are greatly unequal. This is a fact that is obvious — or should be — to everyone from the age of five and up.

    America did not create black slavery, but ended it.


  144. dedabets is just another self-loathing white person. There are just as many racist black folks. You didn’t call Ann racist for accusing all white men of being rapists, but I’m racist for calling her hair nappy. Ann brings out the worst in people.


  145. Ann – re “the world is a evil savage land”

    I am unsure if you have seen any of my other responses in the past.

    I believe human nature has a basic sickness at its soul. Sin. It exposes itself as racist, sexist, greed, sloath, gluttony etc. All boils down to a self centered ness. A Belief that you are better than others and can there for, steal, rape, murder, oppress – or treat the barista at starbucks like scum – which I wrote about on my blog.

    But, I also believe humans have the potential for great love (agape). This I believe comes from God. Agape is un self interested love, self sacrificing love. Agape is always at war with Sin. Therefore – I try to practice agape as much as possible. I do not always succeed.

    On other places in this blog I have mentioned that after I was beaten by the three girls for dating a black man….I was very fearful of black women for a time. I was young. It was irrational. I was judging a group of people by the actions of a few. I have grown beyound it.
    But at times the evil that men do overwhelms me


  146. If Ann said all white men are rapists then that is a racist statement yes. I didnt see it – or I would have commented.

    I am a self loathing white person? Ridiculous! You have not seen some of my other comments in the past. I am willing to debate with abagond and Ann and others. But I will not decend to name calling and racist remarks. And you shouldnt either. And of course when I point out you were out of line – you call me a name. I see a pattern here.


  147. “most stupidest” is grammatically incorrect.”

    Is that the best you can do, with you paper knife?

    “It’s too bad WM don’t want your nappy ass.

    “Nappy” is a comment, so thanks.

    So, now you are an expert on what WM want?

    You’ve spoken to all the WM in America, eh? Great.

    I speak of facts. Documentation shows who were the rapists in America. I know many people hate to hear the truth of America’s terroism against her Black citzens, but you cannot bury the truth anymore. Those days are gone.

    “Listen ANN, I know you lust after white men because you can’t stop talking about them.”

    Now, isn’t that the most stupidest…oops!…my bad, isn’t that a stupid comment. (Better?)

    I write of many things, and WM are not the only subjects I dissect.

    Although I will admit I do have a thing for MEN (not just because they look like men, but, because when they are men in the truest sense then….hubba, hubba—no matter what their race may be).

    “You’re just a flat out RACIST.”

    Lame.

    When a Black person tells the truth, they are called a racist.

    What else do you have in your repertoire?

    “I have cited all of my sources. Let’s talk about the present. BM commit murder and rape and many other crimes at a rate far greater then whites.”

    Wow, just wow.

    How very trollish of you. Here….try this on for size:

    Illogical, and irrational fallacy.

    The figures would lend themselves to more Whites committing crimes against Blacks since there are more Whites in America than Blacks.

    Numbers would put the crimes of white/black more in the area of Whites, than Blacks, since Whites outnumber Blacks in America.

    Many of the so-called studies that indicate that interracial rapes involving a Black American male attacking a White female constitute a significant percentage of total rapes reported, while rapes involving a white assailant and black victim are comparatively rare—-should be looked at with a logical evaluation of said rapes.

    Statistics such as these perpetuate the kinds of myths and stereotypes about black aggression and white victimization recurring throughout American history (and into the present):

    Big-bad Black man attacking White woman, when reality has shown that Big-bad White males have overwhelmingly raped and attacked Black women, and contribute to the persistent belief that the paradigm rape involves a black perpetrator and a white victim.

    However, studies have shown that rape is far more intraracial, and less interracial, than has commonly been believed. By looking at population distributions rather than simply at number of reported rapes, Robert O’Brien demonstrated that even though the number of black assailant-white victim rapes is higher than the number of white offender black victim rapes, (and we must also factor in the many Black women who do not report rape when the rapist is a White man) its relative frequency is not.

    When one group in a population is smaller than another, members of the smaller group will experience a higher rate of interaction with members of the larger group than vice versa. After taking into account the distributions of whites and blacks in the general population and in the offender population, one can conclude that not only are rapes less interracial than would be expected; by looking at population distributions, they are actually more intraracial than many want to acknowledge.

    Thus, the common myth/lie that Black Americans are more likely to rape White people than the reverse is unfounded, thus a fallacy. (1)

    Therefore, White men are more likely to commit crimes (embezzlement, arson, murder, kidnapping, and yes!—rape) NUMBERS WISE/POPULATION WISE against whites and blacks, than say, moreso, than a Black woman would commit a crime against a White person (man or woman) NUMBERS WISE/POPULATION WISE.

    At any given moment, there are more White men committing crimes in comparison to Black women. White men outnumber Black women 7-to-1, therefore, it is illogical to state that more Blacks commit crime than Whites.

    Because Blacks are smaller in numbers to Whites, the figures on crime statistics can be misleading. A smaller population group will always have crime numbers skewed that mislead people to think that there are large numbers of that small group committing ALL the crimes in America.

    Such misinformation would be lies and disinformation.

    And that is what YOU state.

    (1). See Robert M. O’Brien, The Interracial Nature of Violent Crimes: A Reexamination,
    92 AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SOCIOLOGY 817–35 (1987).

    His theory is founded on the insight
    that because there are fewer Black Americans in the population than there are Whites,
    the relative frequency of blacks’ interacting with Whites will be higher than Whites’
    interacting with Blacks in “asymmetrical” situations like rape. That is, “[a]ll minority
    groups, singly or in combination, are more involved in intergroup relations with a group
    constituting a majority than the majority group is with them.” Id. at 820 (quoting PETER
    M. BLAU, INEQUALITY AND HETEROGENEITY: A PRIMITIVE THEORY OF SOCIAL
    STRUCTURE 22- 23 (1977)) (internal quotation marks omitted).

    30 “To illustrate, assume that there are 10% blacks and 90% whites in a population of
    1,000; then, if there are 10 black-white marriages, 10% . . . of the blacks would be
    intermarried, while only 1.1%. . . . of the whites would be intermarried.” Id. at 819. Id at 822.

    Robert O’Brien, “The Interracial Nature of Violent Crimes”.

    “Internet, demcracy, TV, Movies, Radio, Cars, Planes, Trains, anti-biotics.”

    Lame.

    Try again.

    Also, where is your proof that WM, all by themselves, with no expertise, or help, or knowledge from ANYONE else—-created all these things, hmm?

    THe WM did it all, Great Bwana, him no need help, him able to save the world, after almost single-handedly destroying it?

    Prove to me that the WM created all these inventions all by his lonesome self.

    “You people are still trying to figure out how to straighten your hair.”

    You people….straighten hair….

    For your information, I wear my hair in its natural state, though I am kinda partial to braids, with an occasional Afro worn just to fluff it out to dazzle men and send them to their knees.

    “You people sold each other to Europeans.”

    Hey, wait just a dadblamed minute!

    “You” people?

    Shouldn’t that be “Your people”.

    Hey, learn proper grammar, okay?

    Your English teacher would be ashamed of you.

    AS for the sale of Africans to Europeans, even more lame.

    Yes, Africans of some tribes did sell Africans to European slave traders, but, did those Africans twist the European’s arms, make them buy Africans and enslave them?

    Your comment is one of the kind I not only consider stupid, but, also weak.

    So….

    Little Jimmy sees little Kimmy stealing cookies, so he does the same? Mom comes in sees little Jimmy, Jimmy says, “But, Mom, Kimmy did it.”

    Little Jimmy gets his ass torn up.

    Moral of the story:

    NO ONE made whites buy slaves.

    They did it for greed, profit, and eventually, for sick racist reasons.

    I have to admit,I do get tired of those old forms of tripe verbiage about what the great white man invented and Africans selling other Africans to the poor-put-upon-well-somebody-had-to-buy-those-slaves-so-I guess-we-whites-had-to–buy-them-and-hate-them-for-the-next-four-centuries-what-we-did-to-them.

    How’s that?

    Grammatical enough for ‘ya?


  148. “You didn’t call Ann racist for accusing all white men of being rapists, but I’m racist for calling her hair nappy.”

    Once again….enough of the lies. I stated that WM men during slavery, Reconstruction, and segregation overwhelmingly raped, sexually coerced, and abused BW. The majority of WM then did not care about the humanity of BW; millions of them went along with the racist/sexist program of mistreating BW. You do not like to hear the truth of America’s history…..well, the truth hurts.

    Deal with it.

    America did not create black slavery, but ended it.”

    Lie.

    Slavery itself is as old as the human race….

    ….but, it took whites/Europeans to turn “American Slavery” into race-based slavery.

    “Ann brings out the worst in people.”

    Ann (moi) has allegiance to the truth.

    Getting mad at me because I speak of American history only shows how much you (Nicole) hate hearing about the sick sadistic perversions this country has done to millions of non-whites at the hands of whites.

    As for the effect you say I have on people….

    ….I am not interested in popularity contests.

    When I see a troll I have fun with him (or in this case, her).

    Now, run along and stop being a troll, learn to live with the truth, go and sin no more.


  149. Ann, Your own people had exterminated whole nations and tore families apart for profit before the white folks got their chance at a cut. In fact Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the entire 500 years but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.

    By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. The combined slave trade to the British colonies in North America and later to the United States accounted for less than 3 percent of the global trade in African slaves. The total number of slaves imported to North America was 800,000, less than the slave trade to the island of Cuba alone. If the internal African slave trade-which began in the seventh century and persists to this day in the Sudan, Mauritania and other sub-Saharan states-is taken into account, the responsibility of American traders shrinks to a fraction of 1 percent of the slavery problem. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century. Blacks in present-day Ghana rioted against the British as they destroyed the slave ports along Africas western coast. In 1808, the King of Bonny (now Nigeria) told the British: Youre country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself.


  150. Okay Nicole, I’m so sick of your racist attitude and lecturing us Blacks about the slave trade. Slavery was universal, but it is America that made slavery race-based, along with attendant abuses and dehumanization. You and your ancestors benefitted from Black oppression through White privilege. You don’t want to acknowledge it, don’t you? Why? because it would question your whole existence and your group’s oppressing various peoples in America’s history.

    Read your history books, okay?

    La Reyna


  151. I rember reading somewhere that Americans have one of the worse education systems in the developed world I didnt believe it but haveing read some of the stuff Nicole has written I am starting to believe it.

    First of all rape is a teriible thing for any women to suffer whether she be white, black Asain etc Nicloe clearly seems to think that rape is only terrible when the victim is white. It is well documented that the sexual abuse of black women and Native American women during the days of slavey was wide spread the sexual abuse of black women and Native American women where not documented by blacks or Native Americans they were documented mostly by visting Europeans and white Americans and I know Nicloe from reading your comments you quite clearly have a love for the white race so I know you wont dissagree whit the words of fellow whites. The Americans did not end slavery it was actually the Britsh empire who played a major part in ending slavery threw an act in parliament the Americans had to have a civil war to end slavery becuase a large part of the American population wanted to carry on with slavey. What really shows me your lack of education is that you think you can compare African slavery to American slavery which is something only a fool what do its like comparing Antisemitism in Europe with Antisemitism in America the two do not compare. Slavery in African society’s was similar to slavery in the Ancient Greek world it was not race based and there was a great deal of fluidity many former slaves went on to beocme high ranking members of there society’s some even went on to become kings in fact many kings of the Ghana, Mali and Songhai empires were former slaves how many slaves become prisdent of the U.S Nicole?

    Then final point I would like to make is your stupid attmept to portray U.S slavery as some type of marvelous thing because it gave blacks all these great opportunities its only the type of mindset that a racist would have. Ethnic minorites in the U.S whether they be black, Asain, Jewish and Hispanics etc have had to fight every inch of the way to get the most basic of rights.


  152. English rose you are a classic expample of why Europeans are superior in every way to most Americans but my dear your attempt to educate people like Nicole is in vain racism is apart of American culure.

    Eveything about American history can be sumed up in one word worse thy treated there slaves worse there Natives worse to deal with this fact Americans often go into denial about certain parts of there history or like Nicole mix half truths with lies. What happned to blacks and the Naitive peoples of the New world was terrible haveing said that I am not responsible for it just because I am white.


  153. Dont judge us all by the the ignorant trollish behavior of Nicole.


  154. Nicole:

    There’s no need to live down to a base stereotype of a “knuckle-dragging white racist” in order to make an argument. What you say contains a lot of truth, but your histrionics and personal attacks make it almost impossible for a fair-minded person to see.

    If you’re really trying to reach someone and not just venting, that is a self-defeating strategy.


  155. my point nonserviam


  156. …surfing the web and came across this site,

    I found the statement above very interesting, on how white men date fewer black women then expected,

    I think it has something to do with fear of the unknown, and about the societal pressure of such a relationship, being that such a reunion is still not widely accepted,
    on both frontiers, black and white

    and as far as black women holding out for a black man first, that notion is changing as time goes on,

    white men are increasingly becoming the object of affection for black women,

    tbh, men are really more simple than women would like to believe, some may feel an enormous amount of pressure to date within their own race, but in general, most men really just want someone that they are compatible with, someone who understand their basic needs, and is there for them, in the way that nature intended, as does women, regardless of race factor,

    most people just want to be happy


  157. Hi, I do NOT agree that Nicole’s comment is racist. However, Black male criminals do not preferentially target White females for rape. If anything, they massively deselect them. And they massively overselect Black females.

    The notion that Whites must separate themselves from Blacks in order to avoid the depredations of Blacks is wrong. A Black woman is 4-5 times more likely to be raped by a Black man than a White woman is. White women get off easy.

    It is Black who bear the brunt of the devastating rape epidemic committed by younger Black males.

    If Whites were to separate themselves from Blacks as White nationalists want to do, the entire brunt of the rape wrath of young Black males would be directed against Black females, furthermore, Blacks would experience the entire nightmare of Black crime directed solely against their own.

    This is a massive human rights violation for Black females and human rights violations for all Black crime victims.


  158. The entire post here is absurd. You mention some possible causes, dismiss one of them, and then assert that “racism” on the part of White men must BY DEFAULT be the cause.

    Did it ever occur to you that maybe the cause is racism, but not on the part of white men?

    Maybe black women, indoctrinated from birth to hate whites and especially white men for perceived wrongs from the distant past, are prejudiced. Maybe their black fathers, brothers, and friends are not accepting of white men. Maybe the racist yet pervasive cultural stereotype that black men make better lovers causes white men to be intimidated by approaching a black woman who would presumably hold them to a higher standard in that regard. All of these possibilities are as valid as your assertion that white “racism” is to blame.

    Whatever reasons you want to give, it’s pure speculation. What is the purpose of blaming yet another social reality on white “racism”? Are you trying to shame white men into marrying black women? It’s this kind of pure conjecture that creates hostility between the races.

    With respect to your statistic, I have to say it is utterly meaningless. Consider this: if mates were chosen completely at random, blacks would marry outside of their race 85% of the time, while whites would marry outside of their race only 30% of the time. Asians would marry outside of their race 95% of the time.

    Of course we know that mates aren’t selected randomly, but to assume that whites marrying outside of their race less frequently is an indicator of “racism” just ignores the reality of the composition of the USA.


  159. To Anne:

    “America did not create black slavery, but ended it.”

    Anne’s Response: – “Lie”.

    Well no.. although the US certainly did have race based slavery….The Arabs (enslaving sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans) got there first. The sub-Saharan slave trade was picked up by the Portuguese, the Dutch, then the British. When slavery was first introduced to what is now the US it was considered an extension of England, hence it would be accurate to say that the US did not create black slavery. As for ending slavery… well for the US, yes whites were responsible for ending it here. But Haiti was first in the Americas for ending slavery (through revolt), followed by Mexico (by declaration upon independence), Jamaica (through pressure by abolitionists in Britain and through compensation..)

    “….but, it took whites/Europeans to turn “American Slavery” into race-based slavery.”

    Well hmmmm:

    “Export of Indian slaves to international markets

    Hindu slaves were an important component of the highly active slave markets of medieval and early modern Central Asia. High demand for skilled slaves, and India’s larger and more advanced textile industry and agricultural production, architecture, demonstrated to its neighbours that skilled labour was abundant in the subcontinent leading to enslavement and export of large number of skilled labour, following successful invasions. After sacking Delhi, Timur enslaved several thousand skilled artisans, presenting many of these slaves to his subordinate elite, although reserving the masons for use in the construction of the Bibi-Khanym Mosque in Samarkand.[57] Young female slaves fetched higher market price than skilled construction slaves, sometimes by 150%.] Because of their identification in Muslim societies as kafirs, “non-believers”, Hindus were especially in demand in the early modern Central Asian slave markets, with Indian Hindu slaves specially mentioned in waqafnamas, and archives and even being owned by Turkic pastoral groups.

    Arabia:
    Some historians estimate that between 11 and 18 million black African slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert between 650 and 1900,[or more than the 9.4 to 14 million Africans brought to the Americas in the Atlantic slave trade.

    The Arab slave trade originated before Islam and lasted more than a millennium.Arab traders brought Africans across the Indian Ocean from present-day Kenya, Tanzania, Sudan, western Ethiopia and elsewhere in East Africa to present-day Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Turkey and other parts of the Middle East and South Asia (mainly Pakistan and India). Arabs supplied African slaves to the Muslim world, which at its peak stretched over three continents from the Atlantic (Morocco, Spain) to India and eastern China.

    The Mongols:
    In 1382 the Golden Horde under Khan Tokhtamysh sacked Moscow, burning the city and carrying off thousands of inhabitants as slaves. Between 1414 and 1423, some 10,000 eastern European slaves were sold in Venice.[20] Genoese merchants organized the slave trade from the Crimea to Mamluk Egypt. For years the Khanates of Kazan and Astrakhan routinely made raids on Russian principalities for slaves and to plunder towns. Russian chronicles record about 40 raids of Kazan Khans on the Russian territories in the first half of the 16th century.[21] In 1521, the combined forces of Crimean Khan Mehmed Giray and his Kazan allies attacked Moscow and captured thousands of slaves.[22]

    In 1441, Haci I Giray declared independence from the Golden Horde and established the Crimean Khanate. For a long time, until the early 18th century, the khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. In a process called the “harvesting of the steppe”, they enslaved many Slavic peasants. About 30 major Tatar raids were recorded into Muscovite territories between 1558-1596.[23] In 1571, the Crimean Tatars attacked and sacked Moscow, burning everything but the Kremlin and taking thousands of captives as slaves.[24] In Crimea, about 75% of the population consisted of slaves.


  160. To Abagond:

    In regards to:

    “That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:

    * 19.5 Asian women
    * 8.4 black men
    * 7.2 Asian men
    * 3.6 black women
    * 2.2 white men
    * 1.9 white women

    “It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”

    Hmmm.. well that would be a true statement if whites had an equal or lesser percentage of the population than the other groups but since they are a majority, at five times greater in number than the next largest group, on a random basis they would partner up with other whites much more than other groups. The racial/ethnic breakdown for people in the US who are of legal age to marry is roughly 70% white, 12% Black, 12% Latino, 4% Asian, and 1% Multiracial, 1% Native American (these figures don’t exactly represent the current demographics of the US because minorities below the age of 18 (for my calculations.. the legal age to marry..)are a higher percentage of the populace..)

    If marriage always occurred in an individuals adult life and was completely random we would expect the white interracial rate to be 30%, the Black rate to be 88%, the Latino rate to be 88%, the Asian rate to be 96%. On that basis let’s look at the interracial marriage rate of Black men, the second highest of all the groups you listed (8.4%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (88%), we see that Black men marry at 9.5% of their expected (random) interracial marriage rate and white men (2.2%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (30%) are at 7.3% of their expected interracial marriage rate and Black women (3.6% actual) versus random rate of (88%) are at 4% of their expected rate of interracial marriage, Asian men at 7.2% interracial marriage versus a potential rate of 96% are at 7.5% of their expected rate of interracial marriage whereas Asian women are at (19.5/96) 20.3% of their expected out marriage rate and white women (1.9/30) are at 6.3% of their expected out marriage.

    By the way intraracial marriages among Asians and Latinos are increasing not decreasing with the increased immigration of the last few decades (more choices for partners.. more ethnic enclaves..) whereas interracial marriages between whites and other groups are increasing.


  161. on Fri 20 Mar 2009 at 01:09:07 mynameismyname

    Well, Uncle Milton, there was a Washington Post article recently that informed that interracial marriages among Asians and “Hispanics” in the U.S. are decreasing, as they grow in numbers in the U.S. Vastly, these two groups marry whites when they marry outside of their race (and in the case of “Hispanics, their ethnicity).

    All in all, blacks marry interracially the least, all across the board.

    I don’t think that Abagond was trying to “shame” white men about their dismal marriage/dating rates with black women. He was merely exploring why many whites don’t seem to hesitate to marry non-black “minorities” yet rarely marry or even persue interest in black women, when blacks are the most plentiful and visible non-white ethnic group. (Please don’t say “Hispanics are the largest ethnic ‘minority'; Hispanic doesn’t describe race, not when a estimated 4 million+ are classified as black).


  162. on Fri 20 Mar 2009 at 02:31:41 mynameismyname

    Here’s an interesting observation:

    Google “interracial couples” or “interracial marriages”. Click the images tab.

    Almost all of the search results are of black/white couples. No white/Asian, or any of the other pairings which are far more common in the U.S. (and around the world).

    Similar to the question I posted in Aba’s “biracial” post: do “interracial” couplings only exist in our country’s consciousness when black is in the picture?

    I just find it odd that this country’s predominate interracial pairings (white/non-black) are completely absent from internet representation and public discussion.

    What does this suggest?


  163. “Here’s an interesting observation:

    Google “interracial couples” or “interracial marriages”. Click the images tab.

    What does this suggest?”

    I don’t find an observation about a google images search result interesting.

    What this, and the original post, suggest is that if someone approaches a topic with a preconceived notion, little or no concrete evidence is required to “confirm” their suspicion.


  164. I just want to add that “Ann”‘s posts above are some of the most racist, sexist, unintelligent, self-righteous ramblings I’ve ever read.

    White mens’ arrogance the cause of all the world’s problems, but if we aren’t macho and cavalier about approaching women (with strictly enforced quotas as to their race), then we’re pathetic losers?

    Did you join a radical feminazi convent in the 60s and just recently get internet access?


  165. on Fri 20 Mar 2009 at 18:24:21 mynameismyname

    See, “race realist” delibrately avoided my question. Proves us right. Just another anonymous white internet poster who gets peeved when racial realities get examined. Typical.


  166. racerealist said:

    I just want to add that “Ann”’s posts above are some of the most racist, sexist, unintelligent, self-righteous ramblings I’ve ever read.

    White mens’ arrogance the cause of all the world’s problems, but if we aren’t macho and cavalier about approaching women (with strictly enforced quotas as to their race), then we’re pathetic losers?

    Did you join a radical feminazi convent in the 60s and just recently get internet access?

    Calling people names is not a reasoned argument. It makes your side seem weak, something based on cheap shots and feelings, not facts and reasons.

    Ann may be many things but she is not unintelligent and rambling. Hardly. Mynameismyname, for all I know, might be a radical feminazi who just got Internet access, but so what? That in itself does not make what he said wrong.


  167. I was not trying to shame anyone or even encourage racial hostility with this post. My hopes for this post were not that grand. I was just trying to answer the question in the title.


  168. Given the history of race in America and given that only one married white man in 400 there is married to a black woman, and that in a place where one woman in eight is black, I find it particularly odd and strange that some commenters expect me to start out by assuming that white men are not racist. Not just assume it but defend it (!!!) by trying to explain away any facts that make them look bad.

    This very act of bending over backwards to avoid seeing racism is itself racist.


  169. I’m not asking you to “defend” the idea that whites are not racist. But when you ASSUME that white men are racist, as you have in this post, you pretty much shut off any debate. All I see in your post is weak-minded conjecture. Assuming that white men are racist and then concluding that white men are racist is not a valid argument.

    As for “mynameismyname”, I did answer your question. Your propensity to draw conclusions from a completely superficial and unscientific data sample just shows that people will take even the most trivial evidence and use it to confirm their preconceived notions as FACT.


  170. on Sat 21 Mar 2009 at 04:33:51 mynameismyname

    Why do so many white folks become so incesed when someone points out their racism? Does it ruin their self-image or touch upon a uncomfortable truth?

    Why is “interracial” romance seemingly only an issue when “black” is in the picture? That’s what I was asking.

    You brought up the old tired white rationale of how black men are so “into” white women, and I refuted that misconception, hence why I brought up the stats, the Post article and my own observation of varying social attitudes toward race and romance.


  171. I have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re arguing with your own imagination.

    As Uncle Milton and I pointed out, the discrepancy in interracial marriages is not far out of line with what you’d expect given the racial composition of the United States.

    As I said before, if you assume all white people are racist then it’s easy to blame every action of every white person on racism. It seems like you will not accept any explanation for this discrepancy except for white racism, so why bother asking the question?

    Read my post (#159) where I proposed some alternate explanations. I’m not saying any of these are true, just demonstrating that there are many possible causes and without actually studying the issue you can’t just decide which one of them is the true cause.

    I don’t know what your backgrounds are, but you all seem to have a lot of rage and hate towards white people. That makes YOU racist, not us. Saying that white people are racist is, in itself, a racist statement.


  172. LOL! Saying white people are racist is only saying the truth. It is not racist.

    You and Uncle Milton are living in a fantasy world. If white men are not racist, then why do they marry Asian women way more than black women even though there are far more black women? It is not so much interracial marriage that they are against, but marrying black women! And why is that?

    The title of this post is not “Are white men racist?” It assumes that they are and proposes that as the reason why so few marry black women – because they do not want black children.

    I cannot prove white racism in every post that talks about it. That would be tiresome. Instead I do it here:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/whites-are-still-racist/

    Yes, black women are racist too and there is a certain history between black women and white men that affects these relationships, as has been pointed out in some of the comments. But in my experience blacks seem to be far more accepting of black-and-white marriages than white people. And, given the One Drop Rule, that is not at all surprising.


  173. So it’s okay to generalize about white people based on your “personal experience”? So am I allowed to generalize about blacks and other races based on what I see them do, from my perspective, real or imagined?

    It takes two people to get married. If white men and black women are not getting married, why must it be the white man’s fault? Only because in your eyes, EVERYTHING is the white man’s fault.

    Your attempt to “prove” that whites are racist is nothing more than “one time I saw a white person do this…” You want so badly to believe that white people are racist, you will twist any kind of trivial evidence to “prove” your claim.

    In conclusion, you are a racist, closed-minded idiot. I see no purpose continuing this conversation, since you are a self-righteous delusional paranoid schizophrenic.

    By the way I’ve alerted the vast International White Conspiracy to your presence and we’re going to sneak into your house tonight, inject you with AIDS, steal all the technology you just invented, and chain you up on our secret plantation. Yes, we DO exist!


  174. ^^^ Hell yeah! I agree with racerealist!

    Abagond, are you some kind of black supremest??? See…the thing you blacks fail to understand is that your comments only fuel white rage and racism towards you. All you talk about is white racism. It gets old after awhile and to the point where it’s very obvious you have a hatred towards whites.

    You are ignorant and need to get passed your computer blogging… and become social for once. That means going out and talking to people! Interact with whites, it’ll do you good. Statistics show people isolated from other races are more racist –and I think your isolated from whites.

    Oh, and I think I read a comment from a girl above that said white people are fat. I find this hilarious because statistics show most obese people are black. So smoke that shit bitch!

    this website is no different than http://www.stormfront.org, a huge white supremest website.

    Everybody needs to just calm down and talk about the positive.

    Abagond is trying to fuel a race war! IS this what you guys wants??


  175. mike and racerealist:

    You two are pretty ill-mannered, getting on here and calling people idiots and bitches. Are most white people like that or is it just that you two had a bad upbringing?


  176. To Abagond:

    “You and Uncle Milton are living in a fantasy world.”

    Here’s what you said: “It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”

    What I demonstrated is that relative to their populations.. white men are third and white women are fifth in ranking in regards to their out marriage rate. I guess you’ve never taken any courses in statistics… hence your reaction. Apparently you don’t like my reasoning.. run it by a statistician if you don’t believe me.

    “If white men are not racist, then why do they marry Asian women way more than black women even though there are far more black women?”

    Well that’s a little different than stating “It is white people who stick most to their own kind” isn’t it?

    That said…. don’t Black women and Asian women play a role in who they couple with..? In my world at least, it’s women more than men who ultimately choose who they marry. I would definitely say the mutual preference between white males and Asian women is decidedly higher the mutual preference between white men and black women.

    I ran through my mind a few famous Black women then searched on google to see who they married or are currently dating. At least for my list, it was all Black men. Beyonce – Jay-Z, Rhianna – Chris Brown, Oprah – Stedman Graham, Jada Pinkett Smith – Will Smith, Angela Bassett – Courtney B. Vance.

    When I did the same for American born Asian women, the majority of partners or husbands were white men.

    Perhaps a higher percentage of Black women prefer black men over white men than Asian women who prefer Asian men over white men.


  177. Uncle Milton:

    I never took statistics but I know just what you are saying about the numbers. Yes, white men marry outside their race more than black women do when you compare it to the number of available partners from other races. But what you must keep in mind is that most of these white men marrying outside their race are not marrying black women – almost anything but.

    Given how there are so many more black women than Asian women, it is like the white men are avoiding black women.

    In my, yes, limited experience it is men who choose and pursue women and it is women who accept or reject them. A woman cannot say no to man who never asks or never shows an interest.

    If you and racerealist are right, then there should be stories in the white community of black women frequently rejecting white men as suitors.

    If white men do not pursue black women because of their stereotypes about them – that black women are hard to get along with, that they prefer black men because they are better in bed, that they hate white men, etc – then the white men in this case are being racist. They are seeing black women as a stereotype instead of as the women that they are. Black women are women first, black second.


  178. Abagond, I appreciate the change in tone.

    “If you and racerealist are right, then there should be stories in the white community of black women frequently rejecting white men as suitors.”

    Men (and women) do not (generally speaking) share tales of rejection. No man is going to write a blog post about the girl he DIDN’T take home last weekend. Especially when the rejection is at the surface level, such as a quick brush-off or a woman who is obviously not interested.

    Also, there are a great many intermediary steps between initial attraction and marriage. In my earlier post, I pointed out factors that could derail a relationship beyond the initial attraction phase.

    My question to you, abagond, since you seem to be more in touch with the black community than I am, is this:

    Are black women clamoring for more attention from white men? Is there a glut of old black maids, destined to be alone forever because white men won’t give them the time of day? Because to be honest, when I look in the personals I see a lot more SWFs looking for SBMs than SBFs looking for SWMs.


  179. on Sun 22 Mar 2009 at 14:44:58 mynameismyname

    Wow, “Racerealist” and “Uncle Milton” who both write eerirly similar musings (hmmmm…), seemed profoundly racist and out of touch.

    Who is “you blacks”? You know damn well what Aba was saying was the truth. Yes, black women overwhelmingly prefer black men, that makes sense BUT I don’t believe that black women aggressively reject or avoid white men to the same extent white American men on the whole appear to do them.

    I gather, from my own limited experiences and countless second-hand ancedotes that whites just truly find blacks to be subordinate to them. This is especially true when it comes to white men’s “attraction” to black women. It’s like black women don’t exist to them and when they do muster up the “strength” to even just merely compliment a black woman’s beauty, it’s under some type of condition. What does that say?

    If posts such as these upset you so much, look within yourself to figure out why. You saw something in yourself that is reflected in what Aba is saying and it’s screwing with you. That’s your own demons, no one elses.


  180. Mynameismyname, you are the one who is profoundly racist. When you generalize about a group of people based on their race, that is racism. Saying “all white people are racist” is just as racist as saying “all black people are lazy”.

    It doesn’t bother me to be called a racist, especially by someone as ignorant as you. I laugh it off, because I know it’s not true. What concerns me is that there are people like you out there, and that you might be spreading your lies to impressionable people who don’t know any better.

    Every black person who is taught that all white people are racist is one person who will never want to be friends with me, one person who won’t want to hire me or work with me, one person who will never want to live next door to me, and worst of all one more person spreading these ignorant, racist lies.

    Your “research” based on your admittedly limited experience and “second-hand anecdotes” is an utterly indefensible basis on which to draw such broad conclusions. I might as well say “I see blacks murdering people on the news all the time, therefore all blacks must be murderers.”


  181. I have to agree with racerealist again. You guys are generalizing whites as racist.

    Just because whites don’t date blacks is not racist. I think the reason whites date more Asians is because they are similar to us –similar in education and the way they act. People like to date people similar to them.


  182. Quite so. Higher frequency of white-Asian mating, as compared to white-black one, simply reflects greater commonality between the former two groups.


  183. Except the evidence doesn’t really bear that out, either. White men are substantially more likely to marry an asian woman than to marry a black woman, while white women are more likely to marry a black man than an asian man.


  184. I should also add that asian women are significantly more likely to marry a black man than asian men are to marry a black woman.

    So this phenomenon is clearly not limited just to white men.


  185. Sorry to triple post, but I should also add one more thing.

    The white male / asian female (and black male / asian female) numbers are obviously inflated because of “war brides” from Korea and Vietnam. That certainly factors into these discrepancies.


  186. Except the evidence doesn’t really bear that out, either. White men are substantially more likely to marry an asian woman than to marry a black woman, while white women are more likely to marry a black man than an asian man.

    Men and women must be attracted to different things, then (surprise).

    I’ve always found Sailer’s theory on that a bit strained, but maybe there’s something to it, after all.


  187. I have my own reasons why so few White men marry Black women. In part it is racism, but in part it is also that White men just find Black women to be way too aggressive for them. On the part of Black women, I think a lot of them think that White men are wimps who are not masculine enough. Black women like Black men, and there is no one more masculine than a Black man. We White guys, macho as we can be, can’t hold a candle to Black guys. So there is a basic incompatibility there that is just not going to work out very well.

    Also, of course, White men don’t want half-Black kids. Now, White women don’t mind half-Black kids, as you can see in any White town nowadays where you have some now-single White women who have mulatto kids by Black men that are usually long since gone.

    As far as why White women don’t mind mulatto kids but White guys do, I am not so sure. Are White guys more racist than White women?

    Understand that in the White male community there is still a big taboo about dating Black women. A lot of guys you had no idea were racist will let you know as soon as they see you with a Black women. If you’re out in public, the snickers from the racists will start. In the White community, White man with Black woman means “he couldn’t get a White woman (no White woman would want him) so he had to get a Black woman instead. It’s regarded that you are a complete loser for being with a Black woman, a total failure with White women.

    So these are some of the things that are driving this. Not to mention relatives, etc.

    BTW, I am seeing more and more of WM-BF thing these days, especially in urban areas out here in California.


  188. With Asian males and Black females, you have the most aggressive females (Black females) who of course want the most masculine men. Now Asian guys are probably the least masculine men. That’s going to be dead last for a Black woman. She will think he is ridiculously wimpy. Asian men like submissive Asian women, and they probably find most Black women to be absolutely terrifying.

    Asian woman Black man is workable, but we are dealing with extremes. Asian women are extremely feminine and submissive, and Black males are super masculine and aggressive. Black males sure want their polar opposite in a female – an Asian woman, but she will be hard to get. Asian women probably find Black males to be so super aggressive that they are downright terrifying, and a lot of stereotypical Black male behaviors are going to be seen as so ultra masculine that Asian women will regard them as uncivilized.

    Also, Asian society is incredibly racist against Blacks, way way way worse than White society. An Asian woman going for a Black man is the lowest of the low, and her whole people will come down on her something awful.


  189. I didn’t know black men were more masculine than white men? Are you kidding me? The only reason black people are regarded as tough is because of “Rap” and “Hip-Hop” culture, not to mention the gang image that goes along with it.

    Turn back the clock about 20 years ago, before rap music was invented, and you had blacks like Steve Urkel who were wimpier than Asians. A good example of this is R-kelly. If you noticed in his video “I Believe I Can Fly” he looked like a wimp. Now, he has a pierced ear, has braids, dresses more thuggish and tries to act like he’s hard.

    Rap music has instilled this image into about 95% of blacks. But say for example, that rap music was never created, and black people became obsessed with jazz music, then today they wouldn’t be going around trying act all gangster and masculine.


  190. The thing blacks don’t understand is that Asians and Mexicans might be more racist than whites are towards blacks.


  191. Robert Lindsay, where the hell do you get off generalizing about blacks, whites, and asians the way you do?

    Maybe in your community the things you say hold true, but you must be a complete egomaniac to think that your observations are relevant to the entire United States.

    As I say whenever someone tries to generalize about my race, sex, or social class: Speak for yourself.

    A wise man knows that the world is a lot bigger than his experience. Anyone who attempts to make a generalization about 200 million people is guilty of unconscionable arrogance.


  192. “Men and women must be attracted to different things, then (surprise).”

    YOU were the one who posited that whites and asians were attracted to each other because of similarities. Don’t act condescending when the numbers prove you wrong.

    We all know that people of different races tend to have certain different traits. Is it racist for people to be more or less attracted to certain combinations of those traits?

    In order to eliminate potentially “racist” preferences, we’d have to eliminate “looks” and physical characteristics entirely from the matrix of attraction. Does anyone here think that’s reasonable, or even desirable?


  193. The stereotype of black men as hypermasculine did not start with hip hop or Steve Sailer. It goes back to at least the 1870s. Jim Crow laws were built on the idea that freed black men would rape white women unless they were kept in line.


  194. So I take it then that you traveled back in time and read the minds of the men who enacted those laws?


  195. No, maybe I read the debates in Congress where they tried to outlaw lynching.


  196. So every Congressman was quoted in said debates?


  197. Besides, the point is irrelevant. “Jim Crow” was not a single bill passed at a single moment in time.

    And even if it were, it wouldn’t have much salience to the topic of the white/black marriage disparity.

    Are you conceding that your original post was complete conjecture with no basis and reality, and in fact the dispary might have nothing to do with “white male racism” at all?


  198. Robert Lindsay said:

    Asian woman Black man is workable, but we are dealing with extremes. Asian women are extremely feminine and submissive, and Black males are super masculine and aggressive. Black males sure want their polar opposite in a female – an Asian woman, but she will be hard to get. Asian women probably find Black males to be so super aggressive that they are downright terrifying, and a lot of stereotypical Black male behaviors are going to be seen as so ultra masculine that Asian women will regard them as uncivilized.

    Well, maybe black men are just not that into Asian women like some white men are. Maybe they do not see them as “extremely feminine”. Maybe black men and Asian women do not see each other through a white man’s point of view, through his stereotypes of them.


  199. Or maybe you should look at the statistics, which show that asian women are five times more likely to marry a black man than asian men are to marry a black woman.

    That seems to conform to the “white man’s stereotypes” pretty well.


  200. on Mon 23 Mar 2009 at 03:46:03 mynameisnyname

    From what I can tell, black (regardless of nationality), male and female, don’t seem to have much interest, romantic or otherwise, in East Asians. So there goes that.

    Yet, I’m still shaking my head at Robert Lindsay’s shamelessly bigoted, hyper-stereotypical and out-of-touch commentary. Wow. The internet really brings ‘em out, huh? LOL/


  201. Black men as hypermasculine and Asian women as ultrafeminine is a white male point of view based on their own peculiar racist fears and fantasies.


  202. mynameismyname said:

    From what I can tell, black (regardless of nationality), male and female, don’t seem to have much interest, romantic or otherwise, in East Asians. So there goes that.

    I agree with that.


  203. Mynameismyname and Abagond, thanks for proving your own ignorance.

    “From what you can tell”, blacks aren’t interested in East Asians.

    And yet, there are 34,000 BM/AW couples compared to 286,000 BM/WW couples. Considering that there are less than 1/10 as many asians as whites in this country, this suggests that proportionally asian women are more likely to marry a black man than white women are.

    So, “from what you can tell” you are wrong, absolutely wrong, and I hope this teaches to you look beyond your own biased viewpoints and use objective measures when you try to figure out what’s really going on.


  204. By the way, stand-up job avoiding any kind of intelligent discussion of the topic. There have been at least a dozen points raised that severely call into question the validity of the original post, and neither of you have responded to a single one of them.


  205. The only reason blacks in the U.S. would be seen as hyper-masculine has to do with the fact that like 98% of blacks living in the U.S. came from slaves. When whites bought slaves from Africa, they only bought the biggest and strongest ones. The majority of blacks are smaller and not so masculine. But most blacks in U.S. are big because they came from a line of the strongest an biggest slaves brought from Africa.


  206. Black males are hypermasculine everywhere on Earth that the exist. And we have the testosterone stats and crime stats to give some added weight to that. Furthermore, physically, they are superdeveloped and very strong, much stronger than other men and better physically.

    This came out through natural selection in Africa about 6000 years ago when Blacks evolved from Bushmen and Pygmies.

    Papuans also have high testosterone. Black and Papuan males have by far the highest testosterone on Earth, so this adds truth to the “stereotype”.

    They were a primitive agricultural society that evolved polygamy where the chief got most all the women and the rest of the guys got few to none. That’s how it works in Papua too. This evolved due to primitive agriculture, whereby the women did not need a man to support them as in hunter gatherer societies. The world over, agriculturalists have higher testosterone than hunter gatherers. Since the women are choosy, the men compete tremendously for the women and one guy, the biggest strongest etc. gets most or all the women and his genes pass on.

    Repeat: Black males are super masculine in the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa, Europe, everywhere. It’s not some slave thing.


  207. Cool, I’m a bigot? Right on. Is that a racist? If someone is a bigot, they are a racist, right? Dang I hope so. I love being called racist.


  208. Nahhh, god damn vikings are more masuline than the bushmen. It all depends where your from. Have you ever seen bushmen on t.v.? They are more feminine than any other race. Also, I am right about the fact that slave capturers took the strongest and biggest blacks from Africa…so their genes carried over. This is like taking genes from vikings and forming a super race of huge masculine people.

    The thing I find funny too is… I have seen triple as much gay blacks than whites.
    If you mean hyperfeminine blacks, than yes, there are definitely more than white!


  209. I just did a post about race and dating that addresses some of the questions raised above:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/race-and-dating/

    Some points that can be drawn from it:

    1. Asian women do not go for black men (even though it is a match made in Sailerian and Lindsayan heaven) because they are racist against them.

    2. White men do not think Asian women are better looking than other women.

    3. Men are dogs so it is women who wind up making the decision of who dates who.


  210. racerealist:

    Mynameismyname and I told you that blacks do not seem to have much romantic interest in East Asians. You called us ignorant for saying that.

    In New York I do see black men with East Asian women, but it is rare. I cannot remember if I ever saw a black woman with an East Asian man. I think maybe once I saw it.

    In America only one married black man in 127 is married to an Asian. Among black women it is one in 635.

    I think this counts as “don’t seem to have much interest”.


  211. Robert Lindsay said:

    Repeat: Black males are super masculine in the Caribbean

    What do you mean by “super masculine”? If I met someone who was super masculine, how would I know? Are you submasculine? And if not why not since you apparently lack the strength, testoterone and development of black men?

    Where are you getting all this from? What is your source?


  212. racerealist said:

    By the way, stand-up job avoiding any kind of intelligent discussion of the topic. There have been at least a dozen points raised that severely call into question the validity of the original post, and neither of you have responded to a single one of them.

    This is an interesting comment coming from you. Sometimes you seem serious and make good points and seem to think for yourself but at other times you call people names, make cheap shots and seem to be more concerned about protecting your white self-image than reaching the truth.


  213. in your other post abagond, you say 95% of whites are racist. Do you really feel every white is out to get you?


  214. Mike, Abagond is not Black. He is a White male.


  215. Are you sure? I think he is black. I feel as if he refers to himself as black


  216. Black males have elevated testosterone until age 33. After that, it’s equal, then it goes down. Go look it up. Black females too. They also have more testosterone in their bodies and give it to Black males in the womb.

    It’s pretty obvious looking at all the Black male athletes that Blacks are in general superior when it comes to things like that. I believe it’s documented that they tend to have better upper body strength too.

    There’s nothing controversial about any of this.


  217. Bushmen are not very masculine at all, in fact, they are sort of feminine. But the Negro is a completely different race than the Pygmy or the Bushmen. He came from them 6-12,000 years ago in the Sahel, but he’s quite different.


  218. Nope, he’s a White man married to a Black woman and they have some mulatto kids. He doesn’t usually talk about it much, but all the regulars on the board know this. You can ask him if you want.

    For a while there, I thought he was Black too, but I think I thought he was a Black woman, lol. I finally poked around the blog a bit after some confusing posts and put it all together.

    He’s a really strong anti-racist and he’s very pro-Black, so that’s why you think he’s Black. He’s just a “White Negro” like in Mailer’s essay. Or like Lou Reed’s song, “I Want To Be Black.”


  219. Well, all I know is that I’ve met more gay blacks than white, ones carrying around purses –anything but more masculine. I think black and white athletes are equal. It’s just that in America they come from the strongest and biggest slaves. I watch discovery channel all the time from tribes in Africa and their all average size, skinny, or obese –and a few big ones.


  220. on Wed 25 Mar 2009 at 00:36:27 mynameisnyname

    Wow, “Mike” and “Race Realist” must be trolls. No one would ever be that over-the-top in reality. Blacks are mentally inferior, but physically superior? Wow, that’s some straight plantation mentality. How flat-out ignorant. Do yourselves a favor: Get off the computer, get a clue and just stop. You’re really making your “race” look really bad. You both come off as sterotypically ignorant, sheltered white males. It’s not a good look.

    The term “mulatto” is archaic and actually quite offensive if you know its origins. The fact that you casually use it, lets it be known that you view blacks as being beneath you, just as your painfully stupid commentary makes that even clearer.


  221. blah, blah, blah, mynameisnyname shut the fuck up kiddo. That’s the thing I find funny with little nerdy-ass kids like you…who take comments way to seriously. IT DOESN’T make me a racist because were debating whether blacks are more masculine or not.

    OMG, I’m a racist cuz I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES go to the movies more.

    OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES like sports more!

    OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES find the government a failure!

    OMG, I’m a racist because I’m debating whether BLACKS or WHITES like Mariah Carey better!

    Kid, no your place before you speak out of line. It’ll do you good bud, cuz one day your gonna get your ass kicked by the wrong person. You have no defense…so I expect no more comments from you.


  222. I wasn’t aware that mulatto was a PC dirty word in the US. It’s widely used in Latin America and the Caribbean, I think.

    The term “mulatto” is archaic and actually quite offensive if you know its origins. The fact that you casually use it, lets it be known that you view blacks as being beneath you,

    Actually, I thought that was an ok term to use. We really do need a word for folks like Obama. We have mestizo and the Hispanics don’t mind. What I think is offensive is that Blacks try to claim as Black anyone with a few drops of Black in them. Almost as bad as Whites saying half-Blacks, 1/3 Blacks and 1/4 Blacks are “Black.” Mulatto (Or come up with a better word?) is a much better description.

    I actually consider myself an anti-racist. I’m against prejudice and discrimination, personally and societal, against individuals and groups.

    But one of the problems with Blacks, so amptly displayed here by mynameismyname, is that for Blacks, *everything* is offensive. Everything, everything, everything, everything. They’re always getting pissed off, always getting insulted, always crying racism, and always calling Whites racist.

    I would say that that right there probably generates tons of bad feelings in Whites towards Blacks, and you know what? I don’t blame them.

    Why like a group of people who act like foot stomping crybabies who spew invective all the time? Folks who act that way in my life get run out pretty quick.


  223. We really do need a word for folks like Obama.

    I think Barack Obama, President of the USA does just fine to identify him. Although I’m sure he fits under many other signifiers such as “father”, “husband”, “future dog owner”, “US resident”, “blackberry addict” etc etc etc


  224. My Oxford dictionary from 2006 says “mulatto” is offensive. Just so you know.


  225. A dictionary doesn’t determine anything. A word is only offensive if the person allows it to be offensive. Any word could be described as offensive. You could say the word “wiener” is offensive if you wanted too.

    Abagond are you black,white,male, or female btw?


  226. On one thing do both Blacks and White racists agree – that Obama, a man who is 1/2 Black and 1/2 White, is actually “Black.” I.e., 100% Black. He’s just as White as he is Black, so why can’t we say he’s White just as easily as we say he’s Black? His Whiteness, 50% of his being, is elided and erased by one-drop rule White bigots and greedy Blacks either to see him as 100% Black and 0% White.


  227. on Wed 25 Mar 2009 at 03:40:45 mynameisnyname

    Abagond, are you tired of “Mike”, “Race Realist” and “Robert Lindsey”? I honestly think they’re trying to get a rise out of us. They can’t be serious.

    Also, who created the “one drop rule”? Who created “black” and “white”? Damn sure not people of African descent. So, no blacks aren’t trying to “claim” anyone. Most of the interracial offspring that I’ve known, who were black/non-black, identified themselves as “black”, so’s claiming who? Please, man, quit while you’re ahead. Aba, maybe you should try to ban them or delete their comments. They’re annoying as hell.


  228. mike and Robert Lindsay:

    The two of you come here and say all kinds of racist stuff about blacks and then get upset when blacks are offended! Please. Get a clue.


  229. mynameismyname: I was this close to marking mike as spam but I thought it was better if people saw the truth about him – and the other two. Why should I make them look nicer than they are? It is an education for the rest of us.

    But I may have to rethink my comment policy somewhat. It is far more liberal than the one at Racialicious, Stuff White People Do or even at Robert Lindsay’s own blog. I want to be fair: I do not want to delete comments simply because they make me angry.


  230. Also, who created the “one drop rule”?

    The white slave owners did, to create more slaves for themselves and to protect their “white” families from having to share their privilege (racial, monetary and FREEDOM). Did you know it was also illegal and punishable by law to teach African people to read and write?

    Gee, mynameismyname… for someone who seems to jump to conclusions you seem pretty judgemental on other people.


  231. Alright, shit… Ill leave this website then! Ill get my friends to hack this site and shut it down. My brother knows a top-notch hacker. Ya’ll some nerds though who are just mad at me, racerealist, and rob for expressing our views!

    GET THIS THROUGH YOUR UGLY SKULLS. There is a difference between a fustrated white and racist! Were not racists who hate other races because of their skin color. Were frustrated whites! Were mad at how everyone always blames white people for their problems without taking responsibility for themselves. Were mad how people call Obama a black president, as if in their favor, even though he’s a white too. Were mad about racist crimes in South Africa where white farmers an being brutally murdered and raped because of their skin color! That’s what were mad about! That doesn’t make us a racist! So please shut the fuck up and get life abagond and mynameismynam!

    But wait! Nobody considers Abagond racist for his comment on Asians?


  232. I am racist. I never said otherwise. I also corrected the statement in question. (I said something like, “Asians can come to America and be as racist as everyone else in two months”. I changed that to “Some Asians…”).


  233. That’s it. I’m gonna see if I can have this website shut down by the end of the week. Hopefully, I can… No guarantees though


  234. That will be nice while letting Robert Lindsay and racerealist go on running their blogs.


  235. … and after letting you say whatever you wanted on my blog. Lindsay, I know, would not have been so tolerant of your antics.


  236. I don’t think I would shut it down permantly…only every couple of days


  237. atleast that’s the one thing you let us do on this website…allow us to say anything for the most part


  238. You call me racist? Why? Man that’s painful.

    You all keep it up and no one will want to hire you, be around you, much less date and marry you. Why won’t White men date Black women? Look at the ones on this site. Ee gads. I’m terrified already, and I don’t scare easy.

    You elide some of the most essential aspects of the one-drop rule. As I recall, Whites barely even thought Blacks were human. Black genes, transmitted to the mixed race offspring of Whites and Blacks, were thought to be enormously detrimental to beauty, intelligence, foresight, I’m not sure what else.

    There was a large element of let’s preserve the purity of the White race from contamination by Blacks thing going on here.

    It is nevertheless interesting that around New Orleans especially many wealthy White men had quadroon and octaroon mistresses kept in homes. They often appeared with them in public in polite society and they were actually quite accepted. But they could not marry them and the women may have been restricted by Jim Crow.

    Of course, this fact makes White folks about 1% less pure evil in your book, so the angry Black ladies and their White cheerleader abagond here of course would never mention this.

    abagond is correct. I can be a real jerk about my comments policy and I have banned many commenters.


  239. American Renaissance is not RR’s blog. It’s a huge White nationalist site run by Jared Taylor. I’m surprised you have not heard of it.

    In what way are you racist, abagond?

    Oh Hell, I may as well be racist too, what the heck? If what I’m saying is racist, fine, I’m a racist, no problem.

    But I will try not to use mulatto. I just checked with a good friend, and she confirmed it’s offensive. I don’t use offensive terms out of respect for the grievance collectors who hoard such terms.


  240. Rob is that your real pic on side?


  241. cuz how do you make account to do that?


  242. Robert Lindsay:

    In point of fact I have talked about race mixing in New Orleans before the civil war:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/03/15/creoles/


  243. Robert Lindsay, mike and racerealist:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/the-r-word/


  244. on Wed 25 Mar 2009 at 05:49:21 mynameisnyname

    Aba,

    I really should stop entertaining their BS but are these three “guys” for real? Like, seriously? They’re pulling our legs, right? Trying to be outrageous?

    Lindsay, you should be a comedy writer because your liberal, ignorant white racist act is just too on-point. You’re either trying to be funny, or you’re really whacked.

    Why do whites get so infuriated when they’re called racists? Really? Why does it strike such a nerve that they become belligerent, defensive and downright nasty when conforted with their bigotry?


  245. Because their self-image is built on the idea that they are not racist. It is a part of being a colour-blind racist. They want to think they are not racist but a part of them deep down knows that they are.


  246. I’m not asking for much except for everyboy to admit black people can be just as racist as whites. That’s it.

    1.) Reverend Wright
    2.) The racial murder and rape against white farmers in South Africa.
    3.) The racist guy who wants to exterminate all whites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
    4.)Hannity Colmes– also wants to exterminate whites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
    5.) plus the Nation of Islam and all black churches.

    Are you saying that blacks are less racist?


  247. Hmmm, yes, that is my real pic. I don’t know. I’m on WordPress you know, and I think WordPress asked me what kind of Avatar I wanted. It said I could upload a pic, so I did it and wa-la, my pic comes with comments.

    You don’t have a WordPress blog, but I think you can use Gravatar to set that up. I think WordPress is using Gravatar to do that.

    http://www.gravatar.com


  248. Also, I encourage everybody on this site to watch this youtube video. This will prove me,racerealist, and robs point of view. Watch it till the end. You will strictly hear the black guy at the end admit there is a double-standard today, and that the tides have turned, and that all whites are considered racist when in reality their frustrated with militant blacks.

    These video couldn’t have spoken any better for me. Watch it


  249. mynameismyname:

    I think they are at least 80% serious in what they say.

    It seems like Lindsay does not get how what he is saying is racist, so I think he is not putting us on. He also saw no reason why we should be upset with him. I think he is 95% serious.

    Mike I think is 75% serious, racerealist 60%. That is my guess. They can speak for themselves.

    Nonserviam, if you remember him, knew just how racist he was being, which buttons he was pressing, so much so that I thought maybe he was a rich black kid or something. The Three Musketeers, however, seem to be far less aware, like they are sheltered white men.


  250. Huh? Why am I racist? What did I say that’s racist so far. You mean about races being different as far as strength, testosterone, masculinity, femininity? Sure, that’s not racism to me. That’s just science. I’m a race realist. The races are different. I don’t agree race realism is racism, but obviously in our society it is.

    It hurts because I am an anti-racist, and I really really White racism and White racists, and I’m not wild about non-White racism either. But the people who make me mad are out and out obvious virulent bigots.

    Maybe we have some different definitions going on here. I do really hate PC and the way it has distorted and ruined the word “racist” to conflate a bunch of really evil and nasty people with some guy who says, “Damn, Blacks are better at basketball!” You’re overabusing the term in a grotesque and awful way just like the Jews abused anti-Semitism by calling half the world an anti-Semite. At some point if the brainwashing ever wears off, people just might act like you’re the boy who cried wolf and start ignoring the real deal.

    Few more things. Avoidance is not racism. Look at figures. The Black crime rate is 8X the White rate. That’s all you need to know when Whites are deciding what kind of city they want to live in and raise their kids in. Nothing racist about White Flight. It’s just reasonable self-protection. If Blacks hate White Flight so much, how’s abouts they quit committing so much crime?

    Stereotyping isn’t necessarily racism either. If some White guy says he won’t date Black chicks because they don’t turn him on, or he finds their anger and aggression (see evidence on these pages) to be a massive turnoff, what’s so racist about that? No one has to go out with anyone. If that’s the way he sees Black women, who’s to deny that that’s a real representation of the reality he has experienced?

    I know Whites who want to get right of all civil rights laws and anti-discrimination laws, who will not even speak to an Hispanic or Black person for any reason, who want to carve up the US into separate White and Black states, Jesus Christ man. That’s the real racism that you ought to be concerned about, not some guy imitating Bill Cosby.


  251. Yeah Mike, I don’t worry too much about that radical Black who said “exterminate Whites” or whatever. I’m just not concerned with that. I don’t really care what Blacks think all that much. I’m White and I’m more concerned with my own people.

    I used to teach in Black schools (Never again! Truly horrible!) for years and now and again I would get Blacks saying how they were better or trying to insult me for being White. Honestly, it really does not bother me when a Black says that because, how do I say this?

    I am a proud White man and I certainly do not think that we Whites are inferior or that Blacks are superior! So when minorities come off like that, it’s laughable.

    We should not bother with these silly Black radical clowns like Kambon, Mike. In many ways, Blacks in the US on average do not measure up or shall we say fail or have worse metrics on a number of indices. You’ve all read the figures.

    I figure this is mostly Black folks’ own damn fault (or possibly they can’t even help it – I’m not sure), but most Blacks clearly don’t agree. So they see all these Black problems and relative shortcomings and failures and they only thing they can think of is, “Da White man did dis to our people!”

    So that’s the source of all their rage. It’s mostly caused by Blacks themselves, but that’s too painful to admit, so they deny and project it all onto us and blame us.

    Whites in America have been kinder to Blacks in the past 40 years or so than probably anyone else on Earth. They should be grateful and thank us for our kindness. I really doubt if they would reciprocate if the numbers were turned upside down.


  252. Albagond, I feel as if you lack an ability to comprehend things.

    WATCH THIS WHOLE VIDEO TO THE VERY END. In the last seconds he encourages whites to speak out and be more aggressive against blacks because of double-standards placed on whites. LISTEN TO THE VERY END AND THEN RESPOND BACK.

    This is what I’m trying to get it. Why can’t you just admit that we might actually be right?


  253. To mynameismyname who said:

    ““Uncle Milton” who both write eerirly similar musings (hmmmm…), …..

    It’s my understanding that most bloggers can ban someone by their ip address. If this is the case then it would be clear to Abagond at least that I am not “race realist”. If you review my posts I am not calling people racists as he is.

    “seemed profoundly racist and out of touch.”

    May I ask what specifically you found racist and out of touch with my posts..? My statistical analysis..? Because I disagreed with some of Ann’s version of history..? (Which I back up with quotes from Wikipedia (admittedly some of Wikipedia can be flawed but what I posted jibbed with other sources..)

    Or because I said: “don’t Black women and Asian women play a role in who they couple with..? In my world at least, it’s women more than men who ultimately choose who they marry. I would definitely say the mutual preference between white males and Asian women is decidedly higher the mutual preference between white men and black women.”

    Ironically Abagond posted a study today which (in his words) says:

    3. Men are dogs so it is women who wind up making the decision of who dates who.

    My comment would be: who is more likely to stick with you (if you are a woman or a gay man) your dog or a man?

    Quit insulting canines Abagond.. it’s unseemly.


  254. I can see the IP addresses of commenters. I can confirm that Uncle Milton and racerealist live nowhere near each other.


  255. I agree with you Robert. One thing I find hilarious is Sean Hannity. He’s kind of like me and you. Listen to him attack these racists on his show…


  256. mike said:

    Albagond, I feel as if you lack an ability to comprehend things.

    WATCH THIS WHOLE VIDEO TO THE VERY END. In the last seconds he encourages whites to speak out and be more aggressive against blacks because of double-standards placed on whites. LISTEN TO THE VERY END AND THEN RESPOND BACK.

    This is what I’m trying to get it. Why can’t you just admit that we might actually be right?


    He says whites should speak out more. I agree with that. Whites do not talk about race enough, at least not in public, not in mixed company.

    But for that to work they must take what blacks say seriously, which they often do not. See, for example, Lindsay’s comment #223 about mynameismyname overreacting:

    But one of the problems with Blacks, so amptly displayed here by mynameismyname, is that for Blacks, *everything* is offensive. Everything, everything, everything, everything. They’re always getting pissed off, always getting insulted, always crying racism, and always calling Whites racist.

    I hear that all the time. It is a way of dismissing what blacks say.

    Also whites should understand that much of what comes out of their own mouth will sound racist to blacks. That is to be expected. But instead of getting upset, shutting up, being dishonest or speaking with political correctness, they should use it as a learning experience: Why was it racist? What made it racist? Only then will they begin to understand how racism shapes their thinking and only then can there be change.


  257. I found this treatment of Obama and Old Glory in Brazil enlightening:

    Rob, you’ll like it.


  258. A comment of mike’s that got caught in my spam filter:

    I’m not asking for much except for everyboy to admit black people can be just as racist as whites. That’s it.

    1.) Reverend Wright
    2.) The racial murder and rape against white farmers in South Africa.
    3.) The racist guy who wants to exterminate all whites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
    4.)Hannity Colmes– also wants to exterminate whites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
    5.) plus the Nation of Islam and all black churches.

    Are you saying that blacks are less racist?


  259. Blacks are racist too but maybe not in the way you are thinking:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/all-blacks-are-racist/


  260. I gather, from my own limited experiences and countless second-hand ancedotes that whites just truly find blacks to be subordinate to them. This is especially true when it comes to white men’s “attraction” to black women. It’s like black women don’t exist to them and when they do muster up the “strength” to even just merely compliment a black woman’s beauty, it’s under some type of condition.

    ****************************************

    I agree with mynameismy name because that has been my observation as well and pretty much it in a nutshell. There is no need to use rationalizations and excuses and stats and supposed eugenic posturing as to why it is. Most white men, if they even think of Black women at all, do not see us as even remotely human, thus why would they see Black women as a viable dating/mating option. They cannot see our humanity therefore our presence and feminity are nullified into something that is usually ugly and animalistic.


  261. To Suzy who wrote:

    For most African Americans it is their great grandfather who may have experienced slavery, but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother; therefore, is why I had a grand parent who had actually been a slave. My grandfather looked White, including blond silky straight hair and not having a birth certificate, he said he estimates he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished and he was thus set free, later he moved up North. He died when I was about age-11 and he often spoke about the “bucks” on the plantation.

    he was the age of eight or ten years old when slavery was abolished

    Which means he would have been born between 1855 and 1857.

    but my grandfather was 20-years older than my grandmother

    Which means she would have been born between 1875 and 1877. If you mother was 50 (absent modern fertility and in vitro fertilization a rare event..) you would have been born in 1927 (or earlier if your mother was younger when you were born..)

    Does this mean you are 82 or older..?


  262. I don’t know why people keep trying to lump me in with white supremacists. I assume it’s my name.

    All I ever said on this –

    1. The statistics quoted above do not indicate that the marriage rates between white men and black women significantly differ from the norm. Even if they did, it would not be fair to blame the entire discrepancy on white men. There are dozens of other possible reasons, many of which relate to the black woman’s CHOICE in the matter.

    2. It is racist to generalize about a group of people based on their race – i.e. “All white people are racist” or even “Most white people are racist”. Especially when you have nothing to back it up but a few personal anecdotes.

    One thing I’d like to respond to:
    “Mynameismyname and I told you that blacks do not seem to have much romantic interest in East Asians. You called us ignorant for saying that.”

    The reason I called you ignorant is because the statistics (which I quoted) indicate exactly the opposite of what you claim. If I told you the sky is brown, and you looked up and saw it was blue, wouldn’t you call me ignorant?

    Oh sorry, I forgot. No facts allowed here. This space is reserved for baseless conjecture and unfounded accusations of racism.


  263. Racerealist/Robert Lindsay/mike –

    Main topic question:

    Would you consider the possibility of dating or marrying a Black woman? A Black African woman? Why? Why not?

    Do you find (have you ever found) Black women attractive?

    Let’s take a break from the general arguments and hear about your dating preferences.


  264. Re:suzy
    Doh Suzy’s mom could have been 40 when she was born and her gradma 40 when her mother was making her about 57 which would have made her grandpa 100 when he passed on.


  265. I have dated 5 or 6 Black women in my life. I had a Black gf for a year or so and we were talking about marriage.

    Some Black women look really really great! Even some dark ones like the dark Black woman in the pic on this page. She is beautiful man!

    I’ve had some negative experiences with the Black women I dated such that I am not sure if I would even want to do it anymore. They were the greediest, most cynical, most money-hungry women I have ever been with, putting most White women to shame. They were very cynical about men, thought they were mostly dogs, and had the attitude of trade sex to milk men of every last nickel they have. Further, I do think that Black women like really masculine guys (like Black men) and they tend to think we White guys are wimps at best or gay at worst. I had to deal with some of that with some of those Black women and I didn’t appreciate it.

    Truth is, Black women are so aggressive that they just scare me. But I’m kind of a dog when it comes to women, so you never know, I might go for a Black woman again…


  266. At one point, I found black girls really attractive! I used to watch BET After Hours and watch all the beautiful black women.

    And to date, I’ve had three black girls ask me out and several more flirt with me. The black girls love me! I remember my friend and I would always talk about dating black girls. We were obsessed. At one point we like them better than white girls. But then I slowly came out of it for some reason.

    The black girls I find attractive today are the ones that act whiter. For example, I find Rhianna attractive. Also, black rocker girls are really attractive too, like Little Jackie. Their so much different from the ones in Detroit who are masculine and so aggressive. If more black girls acted like Rhianna and Little Jackie, I think white men would go after them alot more!


  267. Mike, I just Googled both of those women, Rhianna and Little Jackie. Those are some awfully light-skinned Black women. I suspect that Little Jackie is actually about as mixed race as Obama is.

    I will go for darker ones too, like that babe at the top of the page.

    I even like full lips, big boobs and a big butt that a lot of them have.

    If there was a Black woman that acted really submissive and feminine, I could go for her. Aggressive Black women just scare the living Hell out of me. Forget it. I’ve had enough bitches for one lifetime.

    I think I need to watch BET sometime. I’m really into hot Black chicks. Even if only to enjoy the scenery.

    There’s a Black lady that’s been hanging around my place a lot. She’s not attractive at all, plus she 56 yrs old, plus she’s really way too ghetto, plus she owes me $20 and she isn’t ever going to pay me back.

    What I don’t like is “ghetto” behavior. Blacks don’t really evenly divide into “assimilated – middle class” or whatever euphemism there is for “acts like a human being” and “ghetto” which to me means “acts like an animal. A lot of them just kind of float in between.

    Where I live, a lot of the Hispanics and even a lot of the Whites act pretty “ghetto” too.

    In a word, “ghetto” is just general what I consider to be low morals behavior. Unreliable, undependable, rude, doesn’t keep promises, steals, borrows money and never returns it, a using – manipulative – what can I get off you mindset.

    That Black lady walks into my apartment and demands wine immediately, then she starts trying to get me to “give” her various things, furniture, pictures on the wall, etc. She tells me to change the station on the radio. She’s just rude. Former schoolteacher too.

    That behavior just so sucks, excuse me. I’m a human, not an animal. If you’re going to associate with me, you need to act civilized.


  268. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 04:55:32 mynameisnyname

    Wow, the ignorance keeps coming with these “guys”! Unbelieveable.

    So, black women are aggressive and unlady like. Wow. Yeah, because white women are so pure and feminime. Gimme a friggin’ break.

    The “dark” ones? So, you like to put blacks in color codes? “Even the dark ones are pretty”? Why does it matter what shade a black person is? Are the so-called “dark” ones NOT supposed to be nice looking? If a black person is relatively lightly complexioned like Rihanna, they’re less black? But aren’t most black Americans “as mixed race as Obama” genetically???

    Wow, get a grip! The naked, smug racism is just crazy. I have a strong feeling that these trolls would never say this to a black person’s face in person. They’d know better. …Although it’s not like they come from a diverse background. If so, they wouldn’t be so incredibly dumb.


  269. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 05:14:41 mynameisnyname

    One more thing:

    It’s obvious that racists like these trollish posters don’t see people of color as equal to the “almighty” white man.

    There’s frequent talk of “black women this, black women that”. Are black women actual people who are women, first; black, second? Or is everything about characterized by their race? Or is the “superior” white race the only group that should be granted the privilege of being accessed by their individual character and not merely as “white people”?


  270. So, black women are aggressive and unlady like.

    Sure, look at how they act on this site. Same way they act in r/l. I find these women on here really scary. I wouldn’t touch them with a 10 foot pole and an 11 foot extension.

    I don’t know about unlady-like. Depends how you like your women. Some guys like sassy, feisty women. Me? I run for the door. I’ve been involved with Black women and I find them overall, among other things, too aggressive.

    White women are more feminine than Black women, and Asians are the most feminine of all. Just my 2 c. Depends how you like your women.

    If you go to Black sites, there’s an awful lot of dark about colorism in Blacks and everyone knows Blacks themselves are obsessed with color. There’s even some comments from Black women in this post about how pretty that DARK Black woman in the pic is.
    Little Jackie is about as White as she is Black. Really f-n pisses me off the way Blacks CLAIM for their own everyone with a few drops of Black in em. You’re just as bad as the White racists. You’ve both got your own one drop rules.

    Are the so-called “dark” ones NOT supposed to be nice looking?

    That’s the stereotype in the Black community, is it not? Don’t lie now!

    But aren’t most black Americans “as mixed race as Obama” genetically???

    No way Jose. Average Black, I think, is 17.5% White and 82.5% Black. Obama is 50-50 Black and White. Really ticks me off the way that you all aggressively stole this half-White man from our race. As a proud White man, I want to claim Barack for my people too! He’s as White as he is Black dammit. Get your greedy Black mitts off this man, my White President!

    It’s obvious that racists like these trollish posters don’t see people of color as equal to the “almighty” white man.

    Well…we talking averages? Looking at averages, I think Blacks ARE inferior. MORALLY inferior. Got that? I said *morally* inferior. The rate of low morals behavior in Blacks is way higher than in Whites.

    But if a Black person is capable of being civilized and acting like a human (plenty are), they are welcome into my life. The more money Blacks have, the better they act. But I would say that poor Whites act better than poor Blacks by orders of magnitude! I’ve lived with both.


  271. Alright, I’m starting to get pissed off at this son of bitch named mynameismyname. He must have no life too continually interrupt us.

    Janet asked us a question and were responding. Is everything “trollish” to you? Who even uses the word “trollish” anyways? You sound like a bitch that gets your ass handed too you from other men.

    The thing that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous. Your words don’t even phase me because all you do is criticize. Me and Rob both agree that black girls can be attractive, but not when they act ghetto.
    That doesn’t make us racist. If you even try to say it does then you will sound really stupid. So please, save yourself now.

    That’s the sad thing about people today. EVERYTHING is considered racist… even such a simple subject as saying we like black girls but not the ghetto that associate with. We find black girls attractive, especially ones that act like Little Jackie and Rhianna. Just not the hardcore ones always stirring up conflict and yelling. Don’t tell me otherwise! I’m right! If that’s what I like, than that’s what I like! It doesn’t make me racist in anyway!!!

    I’ve come to the conclusion that mynameismyname is just insecure about himself. Maybe he’s still finding himself? Maybe he’s gay and has been harassed or threatened by others? This may have made him ultra sensitive on any of the topics dealing with prejudice. Maybe he has no social skills and is afraid to carry on a decent conversation? I really don’t know…


  272. OK… mynameismyname, we haven’t gotten off to such a good start… but you gotta admit, reading Robert Lindsay‘s stuff is like science fiction! It has like pretty nothing in connection to real life. Maybe even legitimate purple people live in his world!


  273. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 06:07:06 mynameisnyname

    I really should ignore these losers but I just couldn’t resist this one last time.

    Black Americans are no more crazy about color than East Indians, East Asians and any other group of people who have been colonized by Europeans. It’s white people who created these “color codes” so it’s no suprise that so many people of color have assimilated them.

    Um, it’s white America that reminds the Obamas and Imani Coppolas that they’re black. And if blacks acknowledge someone else of African descent, is that a bad thing? If someone is say, French and Swedish, is it wrong for a French person to acknowledge and embrace them as French because, I don’t know …they are of French descent as well! LOL.

    Obviously, like many white liberal racists, you see blacks who you think of as “mixed race” as being somehow “above” other blacks. And then you try to condone your colorism by rationalizing like some little child: “Oh, but black people do it too.” If blacks have prejudiced attitudes towards each other, where did they get it from!?! LOL.

    After reading the last two posts, I’m now sure that you’re trying to get a rise of people. I can’t believe that you’re that goddamn stupid.

    I’ve decided that this is the last time I’ll respond to any of these trolls.

    I’m done. I feel bad for even entertaining their garbage. They’re far beneath me and I know much better than to respond to their gleefully racist stupidity. I apologize to Abagond and the other intelligent posters for that.

    Please, Abagond, it’s time that you regulate. It’s good that you don’t censor thought, but when it becomes outrageously trollish and deflamatory like the comments above, you should consider perhaps regulating some type of standard. You don’t want your blog’s quality to be diminished by socially inept and incredibly racist internet posters like “Mike”/”Lindsay”. Just a suggestion.


  274. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 06:18:52 mynameisnyname

    Therese,

    I like you! We were just debating. We were just challenging each other’s viewpoints about race. That’s all. You’re actually intelligent and sane, two things I can’t say about these other e-gentleman.

    Aba, Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people? If so, I’m scared. But unlike those racists, I don’t judge a group of people by the behavior of a few people.


  275. ohhhh boy…here we go again… Can this kid learn to mind his own business? You sound so incredibly stupid that it’s hysterical!

    You’ve gotta be gay right? Am I right? You are so sensitive towards these topics that a big liberal would even find you outrageous.

    Are you upset at something? Do you have an anger at the world? Is blogging your little escape out of depression?

    Until this kid can tell me how I’m being racist, then he’s just sounding stupid.

    I guarantee other African Americans would not even find what I’m saying offensive.

    Maybe this kid just can’t comprehend that? Maybe he has brain damage to the frontal
    lobe? I really just don’t know. It’s a waste of my time to be arguing with a kid probably 14 years old.

    This is also my last post to this kid. I don’t really blog much and this is my first website I’ve ever blogged on. But seeing how we got some little bitches who can’t handle any criticism just pisses me off!

    Go write the next bible while I smoke a joint and laugh how stupid you are!

    Also, I recommend you supplement the word “troll” with another word. Are we in the 1700s? Are you lost in time?!?!?! It sounds stupid, kind of like you.


  276. Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people?

    well from MY experience of “white” people… nah, they’re special… even the general human population aren’t as creative as they are


  277. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 06:34:43 Indigo Violet

    White men are generally some of the most psychically dangerous humans on the planet. Why should Black women be concerned about whether white men want to marry them or not? Black women deserve better options in the first place.


  278. blah blah blah…. I’m actually smiling right while holding a fat joint. Your making me laugh so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Indigo are you indian?
    Tereasa are you black?
    mynameismyname are you black?

    either that or you are all sensitive gays who take human rights so serious!!!!!


  279. I want to claim Barack for my people too! He’s as White as he is Black dammit. Get your greedy Black mitts off this man, my White President!

    He’s your President, he already belongs to you! Obama has already referred to himself as a “mutt” (in discussion for the First Family future puppy) and he obviously loves, respects and is very proud of his white family very much. But no one (well, I haven’t seen it myself) wears a badge telling people their true ethnic mix. He self identifies as an African American, because that is the experience that he’s lived. That’s how people treat and see him before they know of his white mother. He has never denied his white heritage, his self identification came about from how society viewed him before they even got to know him.


  280. But black people aren’t dangerous??? You know, I learned about this. It’s called mass hysteria. It’s where everybody forgets.

    You guys are too dumb to open your eyes and not take any responsibility. Any of you recall the murders going on in South Africa??
    Whites farmers are being raped and murdered. The black there are trying to exterminate whites. Watch news videos of you tube. Last time I checked, that was genocide…

    We don’t ask much of you… All we ask is that you acknowledge that blacks can be just as racist and in this day in age, may even be more racist.


  281. Aba, Therese or any other poster: Are the bizarre racist rants of folks like “Lindsay”/”Mike” represenative of many white people? If so, I’m scared.

    Actually, compared to lots of White people, we are way less racist. Mike and I are just saying the stuff that almost all Whites think but are too terrified by thuggish Blacks and the PC Police to say. I’ve been around White people my whole life, living in mostly White communities and I know how they think.

    PS. I don’t think Mike is racist against Blacks at all. He seems like a good guy to me, an ally of Black folks.

    Back to the White male Black female thing, when I was dating Black women I was openly told by “not obviously racist” Whites that what I was doing was sick, gross, horrible, awful and unthinkable.

    I asked why and pointed out to a friend of mine that some Black women are hot, and he spurted out, “Yeah! If they’ve got a lot of White in them! Look at the Black. Look at it. It…it…looks like an ape!”

    And this guy wasn’t known for being obviously racist. He’s brilliant, BA in philosophy from USC, a former law student. In the White community at the time, talk like that wasn’t even considered all that racist – it was just normal. Maybe you watched who you said it around…

    So you want to know why White guys don’t go out with Black women, well, it’s wearying and disturbing to have to deal with attitudes like that from our friends and family so much…Not worth the hassle, you know?

    Plus you sort of become this pariah – freak – weirdo – loser – sicko – laughing stock for being the White guy with a thing for Black chicks. Why bother man?


  282. I’ve been around White people my whole life, living in mostly White communities

    Do you mean actual real breathing living people that actually interact with you? You’re not talking about posters or pictures of white people on your bedroom walls right? Because that doesn’t really count.


  283. Tereasa, there is no way your black.

    What is that supposed to mean?


  284. Tell you what, if I could find me a hot Black chick who acted as soft, sweet, nice and feminine as your average Asian woman, I might just go out with her.

    There’s this beautiful Black woman at Walmart who seems to be trying to fix me up with her sister…hmmm…


  285. OK, I admit I’m wrong about marijuana killing brain cells.


  286. Mike, do you consider yourself an ally of Blacks or not?

    You all might be shocked to know that I consider myself to be pro-Black, an ally of Blacks. And in the About part of my blog, I say that my blog is officially a pro-Black blog.

    And you all think I’m your enemy. Weird. SMH.


  287. I support blacks that can admit there is a double-standard to day like no other. I support blacks that aren’t loud or aggressive, but are civilized.

    Four of my best friends have been black. Matter of fact, I remember my black friend saying I’m black in the inside lol. Like I said, I used to watch BET and such all the time. I was really pro-black.

    But every time I hear that white people are trying to oppress them and that white people are 95% racist, I just turn into a super white nationalist. That’s the thing. But when I hear about Reverend Wright, the genocide against whites in South Africa, Hannity Colmes, The nation of Islam (A all black radical group), and the militant black panther party, I turn into KKK Mike for the time being. Because I hate double-standards and always being blamed on as if were oppressing them. When in reality, no white wakes up saying “How can I oppress blacky today?” Not every white is out to get a black.

    To tereasa:

    Well I don’t think it does really. With a black president, black mayor of Detroit, and black congressman, I do feel it is completely gone. Also, Colon Powell too. There are alot of high up blacks


  288. on Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 07:23:02 mynameisnyname

    Wow, Therese, why are you entertaining these people?

    I love the way the white racists strangely try to steer the conversation away from their own ignorance towards a whole ‘nother topic (marijuana?!). LOL. They never fail to amaze.

    Seriously, Aba, try to consider what I mentioned in post #274. After reading this entire discourse, the quality of your blog is slowly diminishing. You don’t deserve that.


  289. Lol no one takes you serious mynameismyname. You’ve yet to answer. Are you a gay kid who is insecure?

    There is just no winning with this kid. Tereasa can you agree with what me and Rob are getting at? I don’t know if your black, cuz you won’ tell us, but if you are: Do our comments seem racial? Or do we just seem pissed at double-standards and such?


  290. Tereasa, for a moment i was actually finding you to be intelligent. You seemed to be comprehending what we were saying. You realize that by agreeing with mynameismyname that you sound very ignorant.

    I mean this guy is accusing us left and right. All I want you guys to understand is that we are not racists. I don’t judge you by the color of your skin. If color was a factor, then why would I flirt with Asian and Middle Eastern girls?

    Ill say it right here. I find Rhianna, Little Jackie, Tryra Banks and other black women attractive. How many times do I have to tell you this?

    Please be intelligent and get what were getting at. I like black people and I’ve never had a bad run-in with black people my whole life. You know what too? Guess what? I volunteered three days straight for the Obama campaign in Northern Michigan. I had to go door to door passing and pamphlets and make hundreds of calls! Your letting mynameismyname make false accusations.

    Like I said, I’m not a racist white who feels every other race is inferior to me. That just sounds stupid. I don’t even care about ghetto blacks –cuz I’ve never had a bad run-in.

    Just here me out though. What bothers me is double-standards against whites though. Right now, I can find you ten videos, straight up, on YouTube with other blacks defending whites and admitting too how the tide has changed. Keep in mind, these are other blacks saying this in our favor. So tell me how I’m ignorant? Also, by agreeing with mynameismyname then you are just imposing those double-standards by making us sound militant. So please stop now.

    So please don’t be ignorant and encourage mynameismyname to go on. Open your eyes and see what were saying!!! I’m getting pissed off real fast at this site.

    Hallelujah and I’m going to bed cuz I’m wasting way too much time


  291. The great Mohammed Ali said “you gotta have some white in you to be beautiful”


  292. This is a comment from mike fished out of the spam filter:

    Once again, here are four links of black women I would find attractive. Rhianna, little jackie, and two black models

    Ghetto black women I would not find attractive:

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://msfriendly.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ghetto1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://irainsupreme.com/category/black-women/&usg=__DrfrpI9DQNjcGkLzGqxTRRBoNfY=&h=315&w=420&sz=30&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=GRcmRcySw5oxWM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dghetto%2Bblack%2Bwomen%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

    see the big difference in culture and style between them?


  293. I asked my question, and I got my answers. Call me stubborn, but from what I see but I think Abagond was right in his initial post.


  294. Thank you Janet for your question. That was a good idea.


  295. Last night there was a side-discussion on whether marijuana kills brain cells. I will be deleting those comments. They were way off topic.


  296. Robert Lindsay, mike, racerealist and any other white North American male reader:

    Would you marry a really hot black woman who was submissive, who did not “act ghetto”? Would you have children with her and be seen in public with them? Why or why not?

    (Assume, for the sake of argument, that the children will come out looking black and that they will be the only children you will ever have.)


  297. abagond – I am interestedin their response.

    I do know that father is just as proud of his grand child who look mexican and who look black as he does his ones who have blonde hair and blue eyes.

    My sisters father in law has this on his wall.

    “Our Family is a circle of strength and love.
    With every birth and every union
    the circle grows.
    Every joy shared adds more love.
    Every crisis faced together
    makes the circle stronger.”

    when we get together for holidays…white, black, hispanic and asian…we are a family. And we are proud of every single part of it.

    Why would a person care if their child is black or white or any shade of brown in between. To miss out on that love, that bond, that strength and unity – because of skin color!!!! ridiculous.


  298. Nonserviam, if you remember him, knew just how racist he was being, which buttons he was pressing, so much so that I thought maybe he was a rich black kid or something.

    Neither, actually. I am, however, something of an outsider in this country. Self-awareness comes with the territory.


  299. yea abagond, i would marry a beautiful black women who is submissive. She doesn’t even have to be submissive though. I just don’t want her to be crazy ghetto. That’s all were getting at. Erase ghetto from black women and white men would go after them more. I’m not just talking about slang, I’m talking about the hardcore ghetto chicks you’ll find in Detroit and stuff.


  300. Black Americans are no more crazy about color than East Indians, East Asians and any other group of people who have been colonized by Europeans. It’s white people who created these “color codes” so it’s no suprise that so many people of color have assimilated them.

    Actually, Chinese poets were praising white skin long before any significant encounters with Europeans. Shocking as it may sound, not everything in the world is the fault of the white devils.


  301. Also, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable whatsoever with a black gf in front of white people. It wouldn’t phase me.

    However, I would feel uncomfortable being with her by other blacks, because they would make comments and such.

    I would get more harassment from the black community than whites. Ever see the movie “Guess Who” with Ashton Kutcher? Where the black Dad is upset about her daughter dating a white man. I could picture the black community more mad than the white at this.


  302. I have to agree with Neoserviam. There are so many double-standards against whites, that it is sickening. Not everything is “white mans” fault, nor is white man out to get everyone.

    Also, the fact of whites enslaving blacks is not relevant. You wanna know why? Almost every culture in the World has been enslaved at some point in time. The Egyptians enslaved the Jews, alot worse than blacks. The Romans enslaved many whites too build their temples. The Aztecz enslaved members of other tribes.


  303. The Jews were very oppressed during WWII. Millions of them were killed and forced into concentration camps. They were oppressed five years with nothing to fall back on. Their wealth was stripped away and their homes were destroyed. It was an all-out war against Jews. And before that, they were oppressed by Romans and Egyptians.

    People of Jewish decent have certainly been oppressed a hell of a lot longer than African Americans. Yet, you don’t here them saying that they can’t do good in school because their great grandfather was oppressed. That’s how stupid some of the excuses sound when black people use them.

    There is no doubt that blacks had it tough from the time of the first colonies in America to the 1970s. But after that, there is just excuses. Even the 1970s is pushing it. Barack Obama was born in 1961 and faced worse discrimination from both blacks and whites. He was drop-dead poor. His Dad left him at an early age. Yet, he is now President of the United States –the most powerful man in the world.


  304. But Mike what you fail to realize is this, Jews are more accepted in society than Blacks, because of their skin color. They look white! So of course after World War II it would be easier for them to move on. That would be like my Nigerian friend, she knows that she’s Nigerian, our friends know that she’s Nigerian, but someone who doesn’t know her would just see a black girl. The same scenario applies to Jewish people, people see white.


  305. To Ashley:

    But Mike what you fail to realize is this, Jews are more accepted in society than Blacks, because of their skin color. They look white! So of course after World War II it would be easier for them to move on.

    Jews can be any color but Ashkenazim (European Jews), the majority of the US Jewish population, basically are white. As for Jewish relations with the gentiles in the US, yes there has been some antisemitism but it was nowhere near the levels of what happened in the Germany, Hungary, Romania in the 30s and 40s or to a lesser extent Czarist Russia. For that matter the first Jewish cabinet level position of a North American government, Judah P. Benjamin, was for the confederacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

    As for Jews and their current relationship with German nationals (as opposed to gentiles in the US..) I am not sure one can say “They have moved on..”


  306. Ashley made a very important point: Being Jewish, like being gay, is something you can hide. Being black is written all over your face.


  307. Exactly Uncle Milton, the Jews were far more oppressed than the 200 years of slavery of African Americans. They were oppressed by the Germans, Romans, and Egyptians. No, they have not necessary moved on. But you don’t hear them making excuses why they can’t get a job and do good in school. They don’t use emotional distress as a factor. A lot of African Americans claim they have emotional distress even though none of them experienced slavery. Even though only their grandparents faced discrimination and the majority of them after that haven’t.


  308. This post has so many comments that instead of updating it, I wrote a part II:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/why-so-few-white-men-marry-black-women-part-ii/


  309. That doesn’t matter, Abagond. African Americans claim they have this “emotional distress” of their great great grandparents being enslaved. If anything, the Jews should have a higher level of emotional distress. They were oppressed far worse and way longer.
    Yet, you don’t here them using that as an excuse for why they can’t do good in school and get a job.

    Also, many Jews are identifiable. Because they either have long beards or wear a yarmulkes on their head. Hell, neo-nazis and white supremacists still despise Jews. So they are just as discriminated against as blacks. They might even be more today because of religious hate crimes.


  310. I doubt Jews “are just as discriminated against as blacks”. But that is off topic. I wrote a post on Jews. You could write about it there. Or suggest a post that I could write that would be good for it.

    Here is my post on Jews:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/06/30/jews/


  311. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 05:15:15 SanAntonioBeauty

    All men have a predatory nature, the hunter, if you will. I also find it be true and active in white men in their pursuit of black woman. Of course not all white men, but many are proud of have sex with a variety of black women and are not above saying how available black women are, how hungry black women are in bed, how expressive black women are and they will never go back to a white woman. Yet, they will not marry a black woman. Why, because black women are so giving and willing to have sex with a white man, so why marry her or even date her. Black women, especially young black women are so enamored with white men and long for the attention. Older white men are more into younger black women after a divorce from a white woman, for the experience. They are more apt to stereotype black women due to the lack of contact with black women in general. Dating is out of the question because they certainly do not have to work at having sex, they are less likely to take a women out or even date her before sleeping with her. Just telling black women how much they are desired by a white man is enough for many black women.

    I have read many blogs on this subject. What I find is after the adoration wears off, black women, especially young ones notice he did not take her out for a meal, or date her. He may have flown to have sex with her, which impressed her, but they remained indoors the entire time. He treated her as a sex object. She asks herself, how could she allow herself to be treated like that, he did not seem to be interested in her, only having sex with her. She is now hurt or she convince herself she just wanted sex too. Knowing in the end she was used and disrespected by a white man and she allowed it to happen. I have seen this too often.

    Yet, I am optimistic. I know there are good white men out there who are not into using black women to satisfy their desire. Who genuinely want a relationship with a black women and can fall in love with a black women. Who believe in respecting all women including black women. I know he is out there.


  312. SanAntonioBeauty,
    Your insightful commentS illustrate why it’s critical that ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES BE DESTROYED. For too long BW have been devalued and disrespected by men of ALL races due to ANTI-BW ATTITUDES/ACTIONS that trash the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW. ALL BW need to understand that, just like women of ANY race, we are HUMAN BEINGS and WOMEN worthy of GENUINE relationships based on RESPECT AND TRUE LOVE. BW are NOT OBJECTS TO BE USED, ABUSED, AND DISCARDED.


  313. on Sat 28 Mar 2009 at 18:40:22 mynameisnyname

    Um, SanAntonioBeauty…I really find it hard to believe that black women are just yearning for a white man’s attention. Those types of black women are defintely a rare breed, at least in the States. Without a doubt.

    Aba wrote this post as a survey of white male attitudes toward dating black women. That was the purpose. In all honesty, I believe that a white man is the last thing on the mind of the vast majority of black women.


  314. A “survey” of white male attitudes?

    No white male attitudes are mentioned, except for a completely unfounded accusation of racism.

    There is no intelligent analysis here, no data collection, no weighing of arguments.

    Just “blah blah blah WHITE MEN ARE RACIST!”


  315. To all my black people out there! Eradicate blacks like mynameismyname. He gives you a bad name!

    mynameismyname you are a black supremest. Your posts have proved it over and over. Give me your address so I can put it on StormFront to all the 150,000 white supremacists who visit it daily. They can then kick your dirty racist ass outta here.

    If black women wanna like white men, than so be it. Don’t fill their minds with hate like you do. This is an exact strategy black supremacists use. They tell you your race traders or such. Women can choose who they want to be with regardless of your views.


  316. Could it be that black women actually dislike white men? Why all the white male hate?


  317. I’m Bi-racial My Mother is White & Father is Black , I grew up in A Dominetly White Community & hung around mostly White Girl’s due to the treatment I suffered by the hands of Black sisters , I tried to hangout & be cool w/ Black Females but I never get Treated right , & not to be Racist but Most of the Black girl’s I know of are Loud & Ghetto & I’m not use to that .

    I also Notice A huge Difference in how I’m waited on when I’m with A group of Mostly Only White girl’s its like You’re treated A little Different too .

    Black men & White Women .. growing up My Black Father Claimed that the Reason why? He only Dated White Women is because Black Women Were too Loud & Gold-diggers & ect ect ..

    My Mother who’s white Do not believe All Black Women are What these Stereotypes are & She thinks Its stupid & with her having 2 Bi-racial Mixed Daughters to her Its Ignorance upon Black men to say these things about their own Women & I grew up with my Mother telling me That I should Embrace Both Black African Culture & Irish/Italian Cultures do not Be Ashamed of My Mixed Cultures & She tried her Best in making us Hang around Black people & kids who were Black or Mixed Black cultures .

    I however Growing up never Got Treated fairly So I still Hangout with White Girl’s & talk & Act White because thats what I’m use to , I However Do Date only Black men & I get Hell for it From Black Female’s .

    So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men .

    I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .

    So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.

    I think BLack women are Scared that Black men have Lost their Lust for them & In Away I think Most Black men Have .

    I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .


  318. Actually Nicole need to get her facts right, because she has skewed all the dates and figures.

    First, slavery in the US existed before the US independance from Britain between the 14th and 19th Century. There were more than 3million slaves taken on that 3 month middle passage to North America. Hence, it documented that Christopher Columbus transported slaves in 1492 when he discovered America. Slaves were dropped off in the carribian to be broken; reprogrammed. Then taken to the Americas. When America broke away from Briain in 1776, slavery was being irraticated in Europe. However, America was making so much money through cotton trade that the greedy Land owners decided to break from Britian to illimate the Brittish taxation, and British rule. During this time European nations were gaining concensus to end slavery which were spear headed by Quakers and English Nobility. American Land owners wanted to sustain their profits through the use of free labor, so they propogandized independence to gain support from poor whites to fight for America’s independents. There were some blacks and indians fighting also. Ironically, we see the same thing happening today with the Republicans. They propgandize illimating taxation to gain the votes so their rich corporations can get richer while the poor folks voting for republicans are loosing their homes, healthcare and 401(k)s due to republican deregulation and corruption. Funny how the dynamics inhistory repeats itself.

    Secondly, the Indian Ocean slave trade was controlled by Arabs who married their slaves. The slaves were African and Arab(Middle Eastern) captured soldiers and conquored societies. When the Romans (Christians) conquored societies they burned the land and killed all the people in the villages so that no one could come back and defeat them. However, when Arab Muslems conquor societies they enslaved the soldiers and any who would not comply with new rule, and married the women.

    Finally, there was no such thing as the internal African slave trade. African tribes had wars with factioning tribes. Islamic nations sold prisioners of war to North Africa, and later after the Porteguese arrived to Europeans. DO YOU GET IT, SLAVERY WAS EQUIVIALNT TO CHAIN GANGES IN THE US. Some groups were indentured servants. This was not just in African tribes, Arab tribes did the same thing. In 1808 it was not king Bonnie, it was Osei Bonsu who ascended to the Asante throne, and fought the British colonization and control of their land and Gold. Unfortunately, both Akwamu, Fante and Asante tribes benefited from the trade. Through their European connections the Asante traded slaves for weapons and used them to conquer more land and fight other kingdoms. IT was those weapons that allowed them to temporarily stnad off the Brittish. But the Brittish came back, and eliminated their source wealth; in an effort to weaken them so they could take and colonize the land; dig for gold, siliver and other minerals. The land was sacred and the tradition of selling slaves was as old as Islam.

    Samalians, Ethiopians, East Indians are all genetically the results of the indian ocean slave trade. Please don’t misconstrue the indian slave trade as the same as the North Atlantic Slave trade because it was far different. Moreover, it wasn’t based on skin color, it was based on tribal conquoring. To equate the two would be incorrect.

    ————————-
    Nicole Says:

    Fri 27 Feb 2009 at 02:34:25
    Ann, Your own people had exterminated whole nations and tore families apart for profit before the white folks got their chance at a cut. In fact Africa’s internal slave trade, which did not involve the United States or any European power, not only extended over the entire 500 years but also preceded it by nearly 1,000 years. In the period between 650 and 1600, before any Western involvement, somewhere between 3 million and 10 million Africans were bought by Muslim slavers for use in Saharan societies and in the trade in the Indian Ocean and Red Sea.

    By contrast, the enslavement of blacks in the United States lasted 89 years, from 1776 until 1865. The combined slave trade to the British colonies in North America and later to the United States accounted for less than 3 percent of the global trade in African slaves. The total number of slaves imported to North America was 800,000, less than the slave trade to the island of Cuba alone. If the internal African slave trade-which began in the seventh century and persists to this day in the Sudan, Mauritania and other sub-Saharan states-is taken into account, the responsibility of American traders shrinks to a fraction of 1 percent of the slavery problem. African tribes were some of the fiercest defenders of slavery when whites tried to outlaw the practice in the 19th century. Blacks in present-day Ghana rioted against the British as they destroyed the slave ports along Africas western coast. In 1808, the King of Bonny (now Nigeria) told the British: Youre country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself


  319. Mike clearly is encapableof synthises; because he can only speak from his own narrow life experience. During the sufferage movement, when women were owned by their fathers and husbands, they could not vote, own land or travle without consent, Susan B. Anthony championed the rights of women and more than 100 years later we still face similar fate. Yet most men, are encapable or unwilling to acknowledge the unfair treatement in the work place etc. Therfore, disregard Mikes comments as limited.

    The 1965 civil rights act would not have been accomplished had it not been for New York Jewish community. Jews and Blacks have been persecutedfor their religion and race for centuries. However, the reason Jews have overcome persecution and were able to help black gain civil rights is because Jews were able to assimilate and infultrate the power structure. Many changed their names to gain acceptance into ivy league schools. There were the Feldersteins who are now the Felders; the Czyz’s who are now the Chess’s, the Blustein’s are now the Blondells, and the Bursteins are now the Burretts. They wore the mask and obtained power and influence decision making. There are blacks who too were passers. Many passers helped blacks obtain opportunities as well. Hence, although blacks can change their religion and or name, they can’t change their skin color. Even Micheal can’t run from it; because under all that bleach we still know his Black. Many black passers distanced themselves from their families because they knew if they were ever found out that the white world would admonish and reject them. Really, I don’t beleive anyone wants to be Black, but when you don’t have a choice, I suppose you have to make the best of it. The only way to change oppression and glass ceilings is to reject it and fight against it. Together, Blacks and Jews have great job in America. The reminates of race base society will always impact blacks and hold them back based on the decision makers own racism. If the decision maker dosn’t let you in the door you must some how break down those doors. In the past, Jews have infultrated and then opened the doors for their own. When their American jewish kids grew up in the US in the 60’s saw the oppression that their ancesters and family had experienced in Poland, Russia, Israel, and the US, those kids took a stand. Many of the businesses in segregated Black neighborhoods were run and owned by Jews. Many Jewish college students in the 60’s had grandparents who were forced to live in Natzi controlled ghettos and where the star the star of David to identify that they were Jewish. Many equated US segratation and oppression as the same,accept their skin color was the star of David. In reality, if this was happening to blacks now, it could happen to jews later. Hence, that shared experience joined forces. But in reality, it was passers who made the money and influence join in to break through the glass ceiling.

    Frankly, Jewish history is the oldest recorded history. As long as Jews make sure the history is taught to Jewish chidlren, there won’t be anything Jews can not over come; because they can make sure history won’t repeat itself. Militaries study history to win wars and sustain power. The Holocost has taught Jews that racism and ant-semetism go hand in hand from an oppressors stance. Therefore, Jews had to get involved in the 60’s civil rights movement. I must say that if US blacks became Jews instead of Christians and Muslems, there would be no Black on Black violent crimes. Life would focus around family and wealth and security buidling. The diaspora would be a global African & Jewish diaspora.

    Just a thought.

    ———–
    mike Says:

    Thu 26 Mar 2009 at 19:26:26
    The Jews were very oppressed during WWII. Millions of them were killed and forced into concentration camps. They were oppressed five years with nothing to fall back on. Their wealth was stripped away and their homes were destroyed. It was an all-out war against Jews. And before that, they were oppressed by Romans and Egyptians.

    People of Jewish decent have certainly been oppressed a hell of a lot longer than African Americans. Yet, you don’t here them saying that they can’t do good in school because their great grandfather was oppressed. That’s how stupid some of the excuses sound when black people use them.

    There is no doubt that blacks had it tough from the time of the first colonies in America to the 1970s. But after that, there is just excuses. Even the 1970s is pushing it. Barack Obama was born in 1961 and faced worse discrimination from both blacks and whites. He was drop-dead poor. His Dad left him at an early age. Yet, he is now President of the United States –the most powerful man in the world.


  320. Together, Blacks and Jews have great job in America.

    Thanks, but no thanks.


  321. The family in the picture are a beautiful family. Absolutely goregous. Those three little girls should be in commercials.


  322. I am a black African living in Switzerland and married to a German white man. I married him not because of his colour and what not but because he is the loveliest man I have met thus far. It is interesting to read that these issues are far more important in the US than Europe. I have lived in the US and in Europe and I have observed that white men in the US are far more likely to have issues dating or marrrying a black woman than over here in Europe. After having spent more time in Europe, I am definitely convinced that white Americans are far more likely to be racist than white Europeans. I would be interested in hearing what others who have lived in Europe think about this issue.


  323. Americans are more racist. Hands down. Everything’s about race here. Or sex. Race and sex.

    Candace: “So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men.”
    Ditto here. In high school I dated a black guy once. I nearly got my a$$ kicked by a bunch of black girls who he didn’t even know. They told me to “stick to my own kind”. I didn’t know what to say to that. I drew a complete blank. What in the world is “my own kind”?

    After high school I moved to Europe, so that solved that problem. Over there, “your own kind” is every man that isn’t married or gay. Makes things much simpler. *grin*


  324. Stacie: “The family in the picture are a beautiful family. Absolutely goregous. Those three little girls should be in commercials.”
    Yes, they are adorable, aren’t they? The one on the right looks like a younger Thandie Newton.


  325. on Tue 14 Apr 2009 at 23:07:21 mynameisnyname

    I don’t buy that there’s no racism in Europe.

    It probably only seems like less of an issue because there’s less blacks there than there are in the U.S.

    If the black population increased significantly, I wonder if posters would say that there’s no real race issues there?


  326. There’s not much racism in Europe but there is plenty of xenophobia, which is a separate but related problem. The major difference that I felt was that in Europe the anger is directed at MALE foreigners (much xenophobia is economic-related) whereas in America every gender is hated equally.

    Basically: being a black woman you’re better off in Europe. If you’re a black man, you’re better off… no you’re screwed either way.

    It’s sort of like the way Americans feel about Mexican immigrants. They want to send the men back but keep the pretty young girls. (You know it’s true!)


  327. THERE IS TOO MUCH HATRID ON THIS THREAD. WHAT HAPPENED TO LOVE, HARMONY AND PEACE? WELL, GOODBYE!


  328. There are more than 96,000 African refugees and African migrants in Italy today. They have experienced harsh racism and descrimination. They are protesting for jobs and opportunity and the Italians want them sent some where else.


  329. Wow who wrote the list above above???
    First off like it or not most white men are just not attracted to black woman who………Look Black.
    Many black features are not found to be attractive its personal choice.
    If your black the brothers will for the most part envy you for having a white girl just about any white girl .
    Not so if your white, with less than a knock down gorgeous black woman. My lady was very disappointed in me that I let how we and mostly I was treated by the black mostly male community . Day after day the BS just wasn’t worth it . It never ended … maybe today 25 years later its differnt but in Boston in the 80’s it just plain sucked….


  330. Richard said,
    First off like it or not most white men are just not attracted to black woman who………Look Black.

    laromana’s response,
    I’m not sure if I agree with this generalization due to the history of ANTI-BW HATE in America. I don’t believe that there is a “NATURAL LACK OF ATTRACTION” between WM/NON-BM and BW. In my lifetime, I’ve experienced bizarre behavior from American WM/NON-WM who were clearly ATTRACTED to me and other BW but sufferred from either ANTI-BW COWARDICE, (culturally induced) ANTI-BW RACISM, or a combination of both. I’ve always wondered how WM/NON-BM in America would have treated BW if ANTI-BW HATE was nonexistent in the culture. I strongly believe that if there WAS/HAD NEVER BEEN a RACIST, ANTI-BW STIGMA attached to seriously dating and/or marrying a BW in America, today, there might be as many BW/WM-NON-BM IRR’s as there are NON-BW/WM-NON-BM IRR’S.

    I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.


  331. For more info. on American ANTI-BW HATE, please reference Ann’s excellent insightful comment above.


  332. Ann’s comment at #30 is among the best on this website!


  333. I notice alot of times if A White man dio Marry A Black Woman Shes not Pure Black Or shes light skined Damn near White . Theres A Few White men that are With Black women that look African American.

    however most of the time you’ll see them with A Black woman that don’t look black Or A Bi-racial Girl .

    I’m not sure if its because they don’t want their kids to look pure Black ….lol But I’ve noticed this by seen White men who Date Black Women they Usually Date A Black Woman that are light Skined Or Bi-racial.


  334. laromana said:

    I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.

    Right: if the lack of attraction was strictly physical, then there would be little difference between white men in Europe and America.

    Ideas of female beauty in America are informed in part by racism.


  335. Well when I’ve come across bw/wm couples the women were usually from medium brown skin (think Sanaa Lathan) to the lady’s complexion in the photo above, but for some reason I’ve only seen a few of them with women really fair (think Tisha Cambell). I’d even say most of them had *gasp* “black” features. I honestly don’t think the idea that “white men only go for black women with euro-like features” is true across the board, just like with everything else some do and others don’t..


  336. on Sat 2 May 2009 at 02:21:22 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    The thing is, that most of the time white men, Native European or American-born, DON’T go for white-looking black woman. That’s what Abagond has been exploring all of this time.

    As I’ve said before, it’s not surprising and makes much sense. Like “Lanomora”, the previous poster said, black women who have alleged “African features” are perceived as “authenthic”. So, if I’m white and want to get with a black woman, wouldn’t I go for what I think of as the “real thing”? Remember part of interracial romance is the joy of constrast.


  337. on Sat 2 May 2009 at 02:30:07 mynameismyname

    Skin color is a constant topic when the issue of black female beauty is explored on this site.

    Of of curiosity, expounding on Lanomora’s comment, are very dark-brown-complexioned generally seen as “authenthic”? while their light-colored blacks are seen as “less authenthic”? How so?

    Also, to expound on #337’s comment, the reason why few fair-skinned black women
    are with white men is because usually, those fair black women go for much darker-skinned men. Not every single last one, obviously, but the vast majority. It’s seemed to be the same way with their male counterparts.


  338. My comment was directed towards Richard’s earlier comment, but the way you explained it makes alot of sense mynameismyname


  339. How I make sense of it: Why would a white man put up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship for a bad imitation of a white woman when he can easily have the real thing? That is why light-skinned women appeal mainly to black men, not white men.


  340. on Sat 2 May 2009 at 10:09:26 mynameismyname

    ^^^

    Exactly. I said the same thing in response to some of the recent comments. So, we’re on the same page.

    LOL @ you calling white-appearing black women a bad imitation. LOL. I get where you’re coming from though.

    For many black men (and women- many black woman have a preference for light skin as well, it’s not exclusive for their male counterparts), a white-appearing black person is just one step away from a white woman/man. One step away from privilege. At least it is in their warped minds.

    Also, I believe that many white men may just geninuely see the beauty in black woman. Obviously-black women tend to be the most beautiful, I believe that many non-black people are able to see that.


  341. Race is social construct (look at how we “classify” those who are biracial i.e. the one drop rule) and despite what is believed there is NO CURRENT scientific data that proves there is a difference between the ‘races’ . There is only 7% genetic variation from “race” to “race”.

    http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/125/8/675

    “Physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them.”
    -The American Anthropological Association

    The biggest issue is the lack of understanding and education for each other’s culture. Culture is what defines a group of people and explains everything from behavior to hairstyles – not race. We naturally identify with those who look like us or who we share similarities of some sort with. Many people aren’t pushed to go outside these walls. On many occasions we interact with other social groups because we have to not out of want. There are many reasons for this all of which have been debated heavily on this board. I understand them fully and see no value in repeating them.

    I find this whole thread unnerving. To generalize ANY group of people based upon ethnicity or the pseudo race construct is beneath humanity but is also scarily human -no matter if we see so or not. No man is what is his neighbor is despite outward similarities. Being racist – in any form is counterproductive for society as well as for that individual person (in my opinion). It does not make a difference how much pigmentation you have in your skin.

    I realize that this may be and is a utopian point of view (and of the original post’s subject in some ways) and I am well aware of how and what race was and has become in American society . Being a black woman does not afford me the luxury to use my beliefs about race as an everyday survival skill (obviously) nor does it anyone for that matter BUT being able to see the larger picture is key.

    What someone thinks of me or any part of my culture is of their concern. I know the truth and it doesn’t change regardless of what anyone believes.


  342. Right: what should be and what is.


  343. laromana’s original comment: I find it interesting that European WM/NON-BM tend to be attracted to authentic “African looking” BW and aren’t AFRAID to show their attraction, as well as seriously date and/or marry them.

    CLARIFICATION: When I stated that European men tend to be attracted to “authentic” African looking women I meant to use this as evidence that they are not AFRAID to be seen having a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship with a woman who has an UNMISTAKABLE, BLACK and/or typical AFRICAN appearance. This is in contrast to MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM who are so AFRAID of the POTENTIAL STIGMA of being seen having a SERIOUS relationship with a BW, that they AVOID BW altogether (regardless of ACTUAL ATTRACTION) or only date and/or marry ACCEPTABLE BW (ie. LESS BLACK LOOKING/MORE WHITE LOOKING BW). This does not mean that I believe that light skinned BW are NOT AUTHENTIC BW.


  344. on Mon 4 May 2009 at 20:41:08 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    That’s your view and I respect it. Yet, as Aba has proven many times on this site: when white men (Native European or American-born) do “go black” they go for what you describe as “authentic” rather than the black women you describe as “acceptable”. There’s no denying that.


  345. that post about asian women being more feminime and submissive, well the ones ive chatted to are indeed feminime ( as women are suppsosed to be – my preference ) and they wont take shit from some muppets insulting them, thats what i respect.


  346. I’ve lived in America all my life and in my experience, MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T CHOOSE BW who are darker skinned or “Black looking” because of their FEAR OF STIGMA if they’re seen seriously dating and/or marrying this type of BW. Of course, I strongly disagree/have always disagreed with this mindset. MOST European men DO CHOOSE darker skinned, “Black looking” BW because they ARE NOT AFRAID of STIGMA (or care what anyone thinks) for seriously dating and/or marrying BW.


  347. I totally and fully agree with the below assertion. I think that in the US, white men who don’t leave the country are afraid of stigmas. However, the ones that are in the Military and have an opportunity to the see the world definately marry dark skinned women. I too aggree that European men marry dark skinned women also.

    laromana Says:

    Mon 4 May 2009 at 23:23:15
    I’ve lived in America all my life and in my experience, MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T CHOOSE BW who are darker skinned or “Black looking” because of their FEAR OF STIGMA if they’re seen seriously dating and/or marrying this type of BW. Of course, I strongly disagree/have always disagreed with this mindset. MOST European men DO CHOOSE darker skinned, “Black looking” BW because they ARE NOT AFRAID of STIGMA (or care what anyone thinks) for seriously dating and/or marrying BW.


  348. In response to the several posters here who believe that white American men who date or marry BW prefer lighter skinned or biracial appearing BW, my experience has been exactly the opposite: WM who do choose to date (seriously date) or marry interracially tend to prefer darker skinned BW. This is certainly the case among the many WM I know personally who are married to BW, and it is a theme one sees repeatedly in blogs and discussion boards geared toward WM/BW relationsips.

    As to Agabond’s comments about WM “put[ting] up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship,” in my experience I wouldn’t use strong words like “pain” or “trouble” to describe being in an IR relationship.

    As any man here in a long term relationship with woman will attest, being in a committed relationship with a woman — any woman of any color — is itself a peculiar form of pain and trouble, but I won’t go there.

    The IR part does inject some new elements — gapes and stares from strangers, aggressive hostility from BM on the streets, the occasional exclusion from country club cadre events — but in the big picture these are more background noise than fundamental life hurdles.


  349. on Tue 5 May 2009 at 14:44:06 mynameismyname

    Exactly Blanc2,

    I don’t know where the previous posters get the idea of white men wanting white-looking women of color. It’s the total opposite, across the board (black/East Asian/South Asian, etc.). Everyone knows that. Perhaps, that’s their belief or maybe, it reflects their own attitudes about race and skin color. Who knows.

    You’re right, any comitted relationship, be it platonic or romantic, will have elements of pain and trouble but I do believe that an IR one in America will have even more strife. Not all the time, of course. But more often than not. That’s why few white Americans are involved romantically with black Americans.


  350. It is an american thing ,not a european thing.White american men are much more racist then white european male , who cares if a white american men will not marry an african american women they are not the best looking men in the world.Most european men are much more attractive and msot love black women specially very dark skin black women it exotic to them , most of them are so gorgeous , scandinavian men gorgeous , some uk men gorgeous , italian men also gorgeus , so who cares.Most of white american men marry filipinos , who are also part black , pacific islanders who are part black , they still marry black or part black women from those countries , but they are in denial about it as long those women are not from africa they are not consider black , but i thought in america if you are part black then you are black , right?I preffer white european men i am from there any way .A attractive black women in europe is a plus and a bonus , so black women you are desired , so don’t worry what a fat , unattractive , ignorant men in america thinks about you , travel please do so.America has kept you in the dark and made you believe in the lies just to keep you down , please wake up and smell the coffee.By the way i am multiracial.


  351. Blanc2,
    Although it’s true that SOME AMERICAN

    WM/NON-BM DO choose to SERIOUSLY DATE

    and/or MARRY dark skinned BW,

    MOST AMERICAN WM/NON-BM DON’T choose to

    SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY dark skinned BW

    (due to FEAR OF STIGMA, ANTI-BW RACISM, or

    a combination of both.

    I KNOW this from my LIFETIME, PERSONAL experience as a BW in America.


  352. Most American WM don’t serious date or marry BW of any shade. Those of us who do, however, tend to prefer darker sisters with more traditionally “black” features.


  353. question – is the fact that most BMs marry BWs and dont marry WW also due to fear of stigma, racisim or a combination of both? Is it only wrong if a WM marrys his race?

    Or is it perfectly acceptable for a person to feel most comfortable with people they have something in common with. Shared culture, shared life experiences etc.


  354. The racism and stigma is not the same for white men as for black men. A black man will pretty much always have black children no matter who he marries. Not so for white men. So racism affects them more in who they date and marry.


  355. Laromana is talking about white American men in general, Blanc2 and Mynameismyname only about the few who date or marry black women.


  356. This statement is so true. Whites do hold a higher position in society. A white man marrying a black woman does result in them stepping down a notch in their peers eyes. Since networking and relationships directly effects peoples jobs, life, social status, and salaries white men typically takes the least resistant road. Honestly, just as people will marry for money an status; white men will choose not to marry a black woman if they fear those things will be jepordized.

    In the milinium, I find that Military Men are beyond that notion. There seems to be a growing number of white male Military officers married to dark skinned black women. Frankly, for some white males it takes being Army strong to deal with the stigma and any possible social reprocussions.

    Interestingly, I also find that excentric white wealthy men who are established (older 50+ on 2cd marriage) aren’t effected socially or financially by their peers judgement. What baffles me is when a young white male from a connected family, and ivyleague marries a black woman who is not of the ivyleague or connected. For example, Ronald Betts, chairman of Chelsa Pier and director of Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is a billionaire whose first and only wife is a dark skinned African American woman who he has been married to for more than 30 years. The really unusual thing is that he is completely white, not Jewish or Sicilian. Also he isan’t bad looking,is from a connected family & was not an outcast, graduated from Yale and Harvard, is best friends and fraternity brother with George W Bush, is a member of the powerful secret Yale society skull & bones. Normally, these types of white guys have stepford wives. They are encouraged by their peers and family members to be successful. They are told by their family and friends that they are throwing away their future by marrying a black woman. Because they would be excluded or rejected by the groups that could provide them with opportunity and wealth. That scares most families. It’s not racism it is just fear and the notion of why subject yourself to a burden of a uphill battle when you don’t have too. A white man can get a stepford wife and not have to deal with the burden of the ills of society. White privlidge means just that; open doors not closed ones, building relationships to illimate the uphill battles if they simply play the game. It’s like why walk when you can ride. Ironically, Ron Betts did it his way, and married the woman he wanted to marry. In todays world it’s not surprising, but 30 years ago, that was a gamble which took incredible courage and strong will. Here is a picture of Ron and Loise Betts with one of their daughters at a charity event.

    http://broadwayworld.com/people/galleryphoto.php?photoid=18706&personid=12073

    They say that after law school Ronald Betts decided to work in the inner city schools in NYC in the 70’s were he met his wife who worked at as a teacher in Harlem. Talk about shocked. Normally, guys like him marry a stepford wife first, then after kids, divorce and midlife crisis, they will change it up and marry a woman of color. By the time they marry the woman of color they are so powerful that they are beyond being effected by judgement; like former Secretary of State William Cohen. It takes a strong independant white man to marry a dark skinned black woman in the 70’s as his first and only wife at a young age. Usually strong independant white men don’t come from privlaged families, or are social outcasts or nerds, super intelligent, and are not involved in social/fraternal organizations like Peter Norton (billionaire antivirus inventor/programmer). Hence, he has black kids and is on his second black wife.

    I think Blacks are used to the struggle, discrimination and persecution, so blacks can weather the storm of injustice and deal with the burden. However, whites have choice, and many choose not to deal with it; even if they like black women. So even when white men were attracted to black women, back then they didn’t marry them and stay married for 30+ years. Many white men aren’t strong willed enough to do what they want to do. The ones that marry and end in divorce like the Seagmans heir and Warner Brothers CEO Edgar Bonfman, who against his Dads wishes married his black girlfriend Sherry Bronfman in 1979 but they divorced in 1991 is now married to a white woman. Although, maybe he isan’t agood example because Edgar is different because he is Jewish, so that example dosn’t count. Jews know the burden persecution so when they marry Black woman it is not the same as a true caucasion man like Ronald Betts marrying a Black woman. I means Jews were persecuted by the same groups blacks were persecuted by.

    Anyway back to my last point, Ronald Betts still baffles me to this day. Talk about an independent thinker. Gosh, the man is a bleading liberal who funded his best friend’s “W” republican presidential campaign while at the same time a registered democrat who gives big money to democrat campains. Moreover, the man is married to a darkskinned black woman who is afrocentric, and he has two obviously black daughtes (not passers) who graduated from Yale also and one is a huge socilite in NYC. Talk about unpredictable. He’s definately an anomolly. Go figure hah.

    ———————
    Author: abagond
    Comment:
    A black man marrying a white woman does not have the stigma that a white man marrying a black woman has. They are not mirror images of each other – because of the One Drop Rule and because whites hold a higher position in society. There is a stain to being black or part black, but not to being white or part white.


  357. Blanc2,
    Some AMERICAN WM may “PREFER” OR “BE ATTRACTED” to dark skinned BW but MOST WON’T SERIOUSLY DATE OR MARRY THEM due to ANTI-BW COWARDICE and/or ANTI-BW RACISM (or a combination of both). That has CONSISTENTLY been my REAL LIFE experience for the MANY years I’ve lived in America.

    In contrast, MOST AMERICAN WM will marry OTHER NON-WW (Asian, “white/light or non-Black looking Hispanics, Middleeastern, Native American, etc.) because they don’t FEAR being STIGMATIZED since these are ACCEPTABLE minorities in America.

    Sarah,
    Thanks for so clearly illustrating the point that American WM who are ATTRACTED TO BW and don’t give in to ANTI-BW COWARDICE or ANTI-BW RACISM DO MARRY BW (of any shade) regardless of what ANYONE thinks or ANY potential negative consequences. If ALL AMERICAN WM who claim to be attracted to BW had the HONEST, COURAGEOUS, PRO-BW mindset of Ronald Betts (referenced in Sarah’s comment above), BW/WM relationships would have a greater chance of being mainstreamed in American culture.

    I have a great deal of respect for Ronald Betts because he RISKED MARRYING his dark skinned Black wife when he was in his PRIME and stood to LOSE his position of privilege. Clearly, he genuinely loved his wife.

    I am less trusting of American WM who claim to be attracted to BW but will only consider SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING them when it’s CONVENIENT/LESS RISKY FOR THEM (ie. after a 1st marriage to a WW or NON-BW or when they’re much older and PAST THEIR PRIME).


  358. on Wed 6 May 2009 at 22:44:28 mynameismyname

    Eh, “most” white American aren’t thinking about non-white women. Period.

    If you’re saying that they’d marry a non-black minority before a black woman, you’d have a point. Yet, that’s all relative. At the end of the day, few white men are interested in marrying or dating a non-white woman. I don’t neccessarily think that is racist at its core. Remember the vast majority of white people live in an overwhelmingly white environment so nine times out of ten, that’s what they wind up with.

    “Dark skinned” is very relative. Everyone doesn’t look at or consider skin color the same way you do. The vast majority of black Americans are “dark” to the typical white person so I’m not sure where you guys are going with that. White-looking blacks are a minority, so of course the few black women who wind up with white spouses will be fairly dark complexioned. Aren’t black people a dark skinned race of people?


  359. I have to agree with mynameismyname.


  360. Sarah: Excellent comment!! Ronald Betts is the exception that proves the rule – he makes you see how rare that sort of behaviour is among white men. If whites were as unracist as they like to think they are, there would be far more white men like him.


  361. As a dark skinned Afrolatina BW in America, my relationship experiences with how American BW/WM interact with each other make it impossible for me to agree with mynameismyname.

    Even though it’s true that “the vast majority of black Americans are “dark” to the typical white person” and that the “dark skinned” “light skinned distinction is “RELATIVE”, I have seen MOST AMERICAN WM (who CLAIM TO BE ATTRACTED TO BW) make an OBVIOUS distinction in how they treat “DARK SKINNED” BW AND “LIGHT SKINNED” BW in relationships.

    MOST AMERICAN WM may have no problem engaging in a CASUAL, NSA, relationship with a “dark skinned” BW, but these same men will REJECT this type of BW when it comes to SERIOUS dating and/or MARRIAGE.

    I find it RIDICULOUS that, MOST AMERICAN WM who CLAIM TO BE ATTRACTED TO BW WOULDN’T SERIOUSLY date and/or marry a “dark skinned” BW like Alek Wek but WOULD consider a SERIOUS dating and/or
    marriage relationship with a “light skinned” woman like Alicia Keys.

    I consider this mindset IRRATIONAL and STUPID but my relationship life (and that of other dark skinned BW) has been too NEGATIVELY affected by it to PRETEND it isn’t REAL.


  362. on Fri 8 May 2009 at 07:29:40 mynameismyname

    I figured that Laromana’s viewpoint was shaped by her own personal experiences. As it should be, I guess.

    For perspective, I’ve RARELY seen a black woman as white-appearing as Alicia Keys with a white man. 95% of the the time those types date a black man who is much, much darker and “traditionally black”-looking than they are. No question.

    Alek Wek is actually engaged to a white man and has a had a string of white mates. Ditto for many other similar looking black women.

    Again, I won’t dispute anyone’s personal experiences as I didn’t live them, you did. However, I do think your experiences may counter the majority of IR relationships involving black women and white men. The few who do end up together.


  363. I certainly don’t mean to discount Laromana’s experience. However, my personal experience, as well as my observation of others, is consistent with Mynameismyname.


  364. mynameismyname and Blanc2,
    The life experiences I’ve referenced regarding how MOST AMERICAN WM may have no problem engaging in a CASUAL, NSA, relationship with a “dark skinned” BW, but these same men will REJECT this type of BW when it comes to SERIOUS dating and/or MARRIAGE are NOT ISOLATED to MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES ALONE. I belong to several BW EMPOWERMENT blogs where MANY other BW in AMERICA have had the SAME experiences I’ve cited.

    Also, I’ve stated that EUROPEAN WM have NO ISSUE with (and seem to prefer) establishing SERIOUS relationships and/or MARRIAGE with “darker skinned” BW (eg. Alek Wek).

    I do agree that in 2009 (and in the past few years) there are MORE AMERICAN WM (who claim to be attracted to BW )who are LESS AFRAID of being seen in a SERIOUS relationship and/or MARRIAGE with a “darker skinned” BW (and I’m very encouraged by this CHANGE), but this is still the EXCEPTION not the RULE.

    Of course I (and other BW like me) would love to see ALL WM (who claim to be attracted to BW) adopt this racially progressive and courageous attitude in their relationships with us.


  365. on Sat 9 May 2009 at 04:56:45 Truth B. Told

    Not trying to start trouble, but screaming (writing in all caps) and righteous indignation are generally a turnoff to men of all colors.


  366. on Sat 9 May 2009 at 21:03:42 mynameismyname

    Lynette,

    Of course there’s instances of white men being involved with heavily mixed-appearing black women.

    Yet, just as you pointed out a while ago, the vast majority of black women do not look that way. This also plays a part in why the ambigious/white-looking black females usually don’t pair up with white men. Usually, those types are with another black person who is much darker than they are.


  367. on Sun 10 May 2009 at 17:45:06 mynameismyname

    True. Black women come in a variety of shades, so it makes sense that the small minority of white men who “go black” would be with black women who look a variety of ways.

    But still, more times often than not, the white men who go for black women seem to believe in the adage, “the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice!”. Ditto for their more numerous female counterparts!


  368. I have to side with Mynameismyname and Blanc2. But that is based on what I see in public. It is hard to read the intention of these men, which is what Laromana is getting at and what she has experienced first-hand.

    I find it interesting that there seems to be a male/female split in the perceptions on this one.


  369. sitting in a sidewalk cafe on friday eating lunch my girlfriend (she is mixed race black and swedish) we notice a beautiful black women with deep chocolate skin walk in with a very white looking lawyer or banker type man.
    They are obviously more than coworkers by the way he pulls out her chair and pays attention to her.
    My coworkers comments that he likes em dark…
    I said – maybe he likes all sort of women and likes her pecause of who she is not because she is dark?

    My coworkers response was that if he is with a women like that its cause he likes them dark.

    I didnt quit understand completely. I would never choose a mate based on race.

    On a side note _ I do not know laromon but her demenor on this board makes me agree with Truth B. Told – her experience with men may not be completely related to her skin or race.

    Lynette – you always present a logical and well thought out point of view that helps me consider things from another person persepective. It is discussion like yours and abagonds that brings me to this blog


  370. on Tue 12 May 2009 at 00:05:56 mynameismyname

    Debabets,

    I agree, Lynette is wonderful. An asset to this blog’s comments.

    What about me?? LOL. Hopefully, some of the POV that I present on this board on various topics give at least some food for thought to readers. I know that posts by Lynette and Ann sure have given me some.

    I also wanted to add to our mini-discussion: it’s not just white men, it really appears that non-black men of other ethniticies also like Dedabets’ co-worker says, “like ‘em dark”. I’ve observed and talked to many Middle Eastern, East Asian, South Asian and non-black Hispanic men. I can say with assuredness that when they cited a black woman as beautiful and/or dated/pursued a black women, “light skinned” or whatever was FARR from the equation.

    It’s interesting that some of the black female posters on this blog as well as Dedabets’ black female co-worker appear to disbelieve or reject the idea of any man possibly “preferring” dark (black) over light (white). What does that say?

    I notice that attitude with a lot of black American women. It’s as if it seems incomprehensible to them that anyone could “pass” on “light-white” for “black”. Is it just a reaction shaped by living in an pro-white, anti-black country or a reflection their own internalized (often subconscious) ideas on color and race?


  371. on Tue 12 May 2009 at 12:34:13 lifeisannoying

    I have to say i find this thread “objectionable” as a black woman (good looking,single and happy) it pathologises other black woman and seems to play out a “What is wrong with black women” scenario, that’s how i feel.


  372. I don’t believe laromana was writing her comment entirely in caps. So she was not screaming to make a point. I don’t think she has a problem with men period. She just has a problem with they way Black women are portrayed. It’s like is there any positive stereotype we can benefit from? lol

    For perspective, I’ve RARELY seen a black woman as white-appearing as Alicia Keys with a white man. 95% of the the time those types date a black man who is much, much darker and “traditionally black”-looking than they are. No question.

    I agree mynameismyname. I have seen this more often as well. Same with white women, they tend to date the more darker skin black men.

    It’s interesting that some of the black female posters on this blog as well as Dedabets’ black female co-worker appear to disbelieve or reject the idea of any man possibly “preferring” dark (black) over light (white). What does that say?

    I notice that attitude with a lot of black American women. It’s as if it seems incomprehensible to them that anyone could “pass” on “light-white” for “black”. Is it just a reaction shaped by living in an pro-white, anti-black country or a reflection their own internalized (often subconscious) ideas on color and race?

    Word to this. It’s always a damn why? When someone dates a sista of a darker hue lol. No one seems to question a man choosing a woman that has a light complexion. I’m offended by that. This reminds me of people arguing about Michelle Obama being with Barack Obama.


  373. lifeisannoying said:

    I have to say i find this thread “objectionable” as a black woman (good looking,single and happy) it pathologises other black woman and seems to play out a “What is wrong with black women” scenario, that’s how i feel.

    The post I wrote that started this thread was written against that kind of pathologizing. That in turn drew in some white men who did not like being called racist (even though some of them plainly were racist). It seems that had the effect of pushing the argument back onto black women.


  374. I think that my coworker wasnt suprised that he preferred darker black over lighter black.

    She was saying men who are with a darker black women prefer dark over light – as in a fetish of some sort as in exclusive.

    I was bothered by this not because the women was dark and I somehow thought it odd he likes darker women. I am not suprised that a man found this women beautiful. She had amazing deep chocolate skin with a golden glow that was healthy and amazingly sexy. She can wear colors that I would love to wear but on me would make me look ill – almost green.

    I was bothered by the assumption that it was her skin color alone that brought the two together. when she said – oh he likes them dark…my response was – maybe he likes her conversation and intellect, or her eyes, or her smile…or a 100 other things. There is so much more to a women than skin color, or butt or boobs. I garner lots of attention because of my backside. My husband of 13 years often jokes he doesnt know what color my eyes are but knows each freckle on my backside. I am more than that and I find it annoying.


  375. dani,
    Thanks for your intelligent, insightful defense of the comments I’ve made. To those of you who don’t know me but are quick to make attacking, judgmental assumptions about my motives, I want to assure you that I don’t have ANYTHING against men (of ANY race) and I NEVER claimed that All American WM ONLY serously date and/or marry light skinned BW.

    Please read my comments more carefully before drawing the WRONG conclusions. Also, it would be refreshing to see BW’s truthful insights (based on their actual experiences) be accepted/respected instead of being dismissed solely because they don’t enhance the image of certain groups.


  376. Wow, there must be much pent-up anger in the old US of A. Much of the above discussion would pass as spirited debate in Europe, while here people are accused of racism.

    There does seem to be a predelection on some people’s part to make racism a whites-only sin. I guess these people haven’t encountered many south-east Asians or read, eg, about the predicament of Africans in China. Colour, ditto: at uni our female Vietnamese classmates explained that they keep out of the sun to avoid getting a tan, because light skin is the ideal. In Asia, peasants are tanned and high-class people are light.

    At the same time, those thinking Oriental women are submissive are deluding themselves. There is certainly little puffed-up strutting by women in those cultures, but the women are tough as nails under their constant smile.

    Which is fine by me, as I have no idea why anyone would want a submissive partner. For me, relationships work best if there is balance in certain things. I want my partner to be an equal intellectually, temperamentally, in libido, but for me superficial racial differences have been an attraction. I have dated Africans, a Papuan, SE Asians, South American mulatas (note Spanish spelling indicating no negative connotation), a Gypsy, as well as “white” women. I was engaged to an African and a mulata, but pulled out due to personality differences (and despite the strong physical attraction).

    I find the above debate about the skin-tone preferences of WM baffling. For me, all skin tones can be (have been) attractive, all the way to the BLACK (not brown) colour of people in New Ireland (Papua New Guinea). Skin tone is just one component of attraction anyway, in addition to features, shape, to say nothing of deeper characteristics.


  377. Like I said inmy first post I’m Bi-racial Mother is White , Father Blacl(african american) I Look more Black then White , However my Hair is A Different Story its not Pure Negro Hair so Its between Black & White Hair.

    I’m the Color of A Native American maybe even Darker , Have my Dad Fetures & all.

    All my Boyfriends have been White or Indian ..

    I now in my 20’s I’m 27 yrs old , I love Only Black men , Any Black man thats Brown Skined , Walnut Color , Or Midnight Dark Dark Or as I call tyhem Chocolate Dark …..lol , But Strangely I Do not like Light skined Black Men ……lol

    I like A Black man with Some Color to him ..lol & It could be cause I’ve dated White & other Races that Now seen A light Skined Black Male Don’t Interest me they remind me of White guys , Not that I ever had any Bad Experiences with Them , Its just that I now Just Likely to Perfer Brown Or Darker Black Men over light damn Near white looking Black men.

    It also could be because My Mother is White & so I see more White Males then most , So I no longer is attracted to light skin ……LOL funny but True .

    But I do Notice alot of Darker Black Girl’s date Light Skin Guys over Darker Black Men.


  378. on Fri 15 May 2009 at 20:49:17 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    Proves my point. Most black girls I’ve known who were product of black/white marriage were the same way.

    Yeah, many dark brown black women do wind up with light-colored black men. But not all the time. Now, if there are any motives behind that, that’s in the eye of the beholder.


  379. Euro in Oz:

    Wow, I have never met a Papuan woman. Are there any good-looking ones famous enough to have their picture on the Internet?

    For further bafflement about skin tones see my post on colourism:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/colourism/


  380. Could the attraction of Dark Skin girls to light skinned men, or vic versa be a simple matter of attraction to something different than you? Like a vase of flowers with blue and yellow flowers – the contrasting colors highlight and make each other all the more beautiful? Its not always about hate or racisim.


  381. on Sat 16 May 2009 at 18:03:57 Truth B. Told

    It can be that simple, Dedabets. And while there is no denying that colorism is real, I think way too many people use it as a rallying cry when in fact they probably have more personal issues that are affecting them and their ability to attract others to them.


  382. on Sat 16 May 2009 at 19:22:21 mynameismyname

    Dedabets,

    I’ve already suggested on this blog a while ago that opposites often attract. Joy of contrast. I’ve mentioned that before numerous times. Perhaps, you overlooked those posts.

    Truth,

    I agree. Colorism is real but I’m not sure if anyone can honestly cite the shade of their skin as the source of their individual fortunes or misfortunes. Despite all of the prejudices surrounding race in this world, each individual’s life direction is dependent on them.


  383. mynameis – I saw your posts – you are always a balanced and insightful contributor. If I have not responded in the past its probably because I didnt have anything other than “OH – I didnt think of that” or “I didnt know that” to say – and didnt want to waste a comment box with that. I enjoy reading other peoples points of view and value yours, especially because our POV differ.


  384. i should say – especially because our POVs sometimes differ – being surrounded by people who share your pov can only blind you to the real world.. i.e. “the emperor has no clothes”


  385. on Sat 16 May 2009 at 23:31:40 mynameismyname

    Thank you Dadabets,

    I also gain insight from your posts. I try not to stifle myself into displaying one singular POV. I actually consider the various viewpoints of others before shaping my own. (This has worked to my detriment in the past.) There is no right or wrong way to look at something. But there is a logical way verses an illogical way. I try to interepet things in the logical way, ultimately.


  386. But personally I Just think its A persons Preference of who they’re Attracted to rather they’re Vlack or White or Dark Or light , i do not think its about color in General cause the fact is I’ve seen Mant Dark men & Dark Back women together so like someone said not all dark Skin black women date or marry lighter Skin black men , I Just Personally think its A persons preference as well as who you’re Attractive too.

    Just like My Mother was attracted to my father who so happend to be A Black man & My Mother herself have said that She finds Black men more attractive & so shes always have Dated Black Men , But it wasn’t due to him been A Race of Another Color it was more of The Attractiveness then Race .


  387. People have their preferences but there is also an overlay of racism or colourism that affects them to some degree, affecting some more than others.

    If it was all just a matter of in-built preferences, then white American men would prefer black women just as much as white European men do, but they do not.


  388. abagond: re Papuan women.

    I don’t know of any internationally famous Melanesian beauties. PNG is not best known for pretty girls, although there is a huge variety of ethnicities, and some coastal regions are better known for attractive people. But here is Miss PNG 2009 for you: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=antonnia+singut&w=all&s=int&referer_searched=1 . I have seen more beautiful women in PNG and also in the Solomon Islands – although not lots.


  389. Wow, she looks black!


  390. This article is bull, and has no merit what so ever and is most likely based on statistic numbers from a survey of white American racist men. The only trueness about it is that white men are afraid of what their family and friends will say if they dated or married a black woman, that’s why many of them secretly and slyly keep their desires about being with a black woman undercover, but they will talk about it amongst their white male friends. They are afraid to approach a black woman in fear that she may reject them. I am a light skin, naturally pretty, friendly black woman. I work at a diverse fortune 500 company, and I get looks from black, asian, indian and mostly white men on a daily basis; draw dropping, I wish I could get with you type of looks – so white men thinking black women aren’t as attractive as other races is a LIE. You need to do better research – history shows that white men are attracted and have always been attracted to black women since slavery days…how in the world do you think light skin black people got their color. I’ll tell you – from being raped by racist white men, their so called masters as they called themselves. I’ve seen more hershey chocolate colored black women with white men than a light skinned sister. There are lots of black women with high profile jobs, making the money. I have several dark skin female friends that work at prestigious companies in well paying roles: VP of HR, HR Generalist, Departmental Manager, RN’s, Flight Attendant. More white men are marring, dating black women more than ever, because black women are dating out of their race more so now. For the record….most black women don’t care about black men dating, marring other races; black women have their choice of any man in any race; they will be with the man that respects them and treat them like the queens that they are – and this should go for any woman of any race. The color of a person’s skin really shouldn’t matter. Reading through some of these posts I personally find some of it the ranting of ignorance. Yes everyone has a right to their own point of view; however, verbally attacking each other is useless and childish. We can comment on each others posting with out being verbally abusive. Posters you have to remember that the author of this blog is just trying to have a successful blog by writing about such a Hot topic. And I will have to say well done to him for achieving so, even thought his blog is based on untrue statistic numbers. The poster that stated something about – it is sad how black women are treated in America…(not the exact wording) sweetheart the only people that treat black women ugly are white women and other female races…only because they have finally realized that their race of men are getting with and find black women just as attractive as they are. The reader that stated he doesn’t think that ghetto black women are attractive; I agree with that too, no one is attractive when they carry on in that manner…..and for the record GHETTO is a state of mind it has nothing to do with race. I’ve seen females in other races with that GHETTO mentality as well. Every race has their good and bad, their pretty and ugly group of people, so what may be considered as attractive to one person may not be attractive to the next…come on people every one is attractive in their own way; besides true beauty comes from the inside, and if you are secure within yourself no matter what color your skin is, then you are beautiful and you have your choice of any one in any race. Me myself after years of dating dark chocolate men, I now have the taste for other flavors. This is a new century more and more people are dating outside of their realm. Some of us are realizing that we can have any flavor we want. And so many of us are still limiting ourselves to one flavor because of fear of what their family and friends may think. I say to that – shame on you, don’t let other people no matter who they are dictate who you should date or marry, live your life the way you want to it’s yours God gave it to you. His word says not to mix yourselves with those who aren’t like you….which means those who aren’t of Him – (It has nothing to do with the color of the skin). Wake up and live your life, experience all the different flavors out there, you never know which one may end up being your favorite.
    Take care.


  391. Renee wrote, “This is a new century more and more people are dating outside of their realm. Some of us are realizing that we can have any flavor we want. And so many of us are still limiting ourselves to one flavor because of fear of what their family and friends may think. I say to that – shame on you, don’t let other people no matter who they are dictate who you should date or marry, live your life the way you want to it’s yours God gave it to you. ”

    Here! Here! Can I get an amen to that?! :)


  392. Another thing, why when people talk about race, racism it’s always about black people this, black people aren’t this or that, or not viewed by white people as attractive or intelligent as other races, aren’t better than other races. It’s always about black people and white people; we are always being butted against each others race. I say we black people really have it going on to be talked badly about so much. Stop hating on black people, black women – jealousy is just jealousy. We can’t help it if we are just too Sexy for your asses. Seriously think about it, while we continue to fight against one another, the other races are looking and waiting for us to destroy each other while they move forward. Get a grip people skin color is not that serious….we all need blood, air to live amongst other things. We all have the same type of life issues in our races. And there is one thing that we all will do one day….Die, and so how can any one race believe that they are better than the next. When death comes, it’s not going to say lets leave the white man and take the black man because the white man is better he should have the best of every thing. The black man should pay more for everything, he should struggle to survive and the white man should get it easy – No death has no since of skin color, it doesn’t care about race, it’s going to take you no matter what color your skin is. We all have something to contribute to this universe, and no one contribution is bigger and better than the next.
    Take care.


  393. Regina….Amen :)


  394. i agree regina – in the end we are the same…and we allneed to get beyound race to the heart of people which is what matters.


  395. on Sat 23 May 2009 at 22:52:35 DaliSalvadorAde

    I just want to say that Abagond, I absolutely love reading your blog. It has helped me realize my beauty of a black (nigerian born, american raised) woman. It is all too true that eurocentric standards permeate the black conscience; something we have to slowly rebuild.


  396. on Sat 23 May 2009 at 23:50:32 mynameismyname

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate,

    Has anyone ever considered that it may be flawed to indicate the level of racism that white American men possess by the percentage that they marry black women?

    Who’s to say that a white man who’s interested or involved with a black woman ISN’T racist?


  397. @ Renee: So you are saying that the main reason white men do not marry black women is because they are cowards?

    @ DaliSalvadorAde: I am glad you love reading my blog!

    @ mynameismyname: Some white men who marry black are most certainly racist. Yet they cannot be all that racist since their own children will most likely be black.


  398. on Mon 25 May 2009 at 05:03:08 mynameismyname

    I’ve known of plently instances where whites who had black children were as racist as any one other white person. For better or worse, marrying or procreating with a non-white person doesn’t always eradicate the internal racial biases that whites tend to have.


  399. Procreating I can see – that only takes five minutes for a man and can be done in the heat of the moment. But are you saying that even white men who are married to black women and have black children with them can be just as racist as any other white person? I would think they would less racist on the whole.


  400. Hello, Abagond.

    I have not been by your site in a while (had a loooovely vacation in Norway, and I am still coming back to the reality of America). Hope all has been well with you.

    Mynameismyname:

    “I’ve known of plently instances where whites who had black children were as racist as any one other white person. For better or worse, marrying or procreating with a non-white person doesn’t always eradicate the internal racial biases that whites tend to have.”

    Well said.

    Laying up with a Black person *does not* mean a White person is not racist, nor that they have gotten over latent racism they harbor against Black people.

    Whites can be *lovers* (and I use the word lovers with extreme reservation) of one Black in particular, and still have hatred of other Blacks.

    Abagond:

    “But are you saying that even white men who are married to a black women and have black children with them can be just as racist as any other white person? I would think they would less racist on the whole.”

    Sorry, Abagond, but, you would be mislead.

    There are many instances of Whites laying up with/shacking up with/marrying Blacks………where the White was just as racist as a White not with a Black person.

    Ever wonder what many of those White men who led/participated in lynch mobs against Black men were doing when they were not murdering Black men? Many of them would lay up with a Black woman, get her pregnant, often abandon or neglect that child——-and then those same White men would be the first to lead a brutal, sadistic lynching against a defensleess Black man (often under the lie to *protect White womanhood*), after that same White man laid up with a Black woman.

    Does the name Strom Thurmond ring a bell with you?

    He laid up with and had a child with a 15-year-old Black girl who was a maid in his family’s household. He denied that child to the world, all the while writing into law segregationist laws against Blacks.

    Ever heard of the Abner Louima case of New York City? One of the White cops who brutalized this Haitian man (shoving a broomstick up his rectum), was living with a Black woman.

    Just because a White person lays down with a Black person does not mean that White person is not racist. This mentality has been in existence in America for centuries. The using of Black bodies for White gratification.

    Whites are taught from childhood to vilify and denigrate “blackness”, so the use of a Black person’s body has not ceased, even in 2009 America.


  401. To Laroma and Mynameismyname:

    Thanks for the kind compliments :)

    Hope I did not miss anyone, as I did not read through all of the many comments above.


  402. on Tue 26 May 2009 at 15:30:48 mynameismyname

    No problem, Ann.

    You’re one of the best posters on this blog. I see that you have your own weblog. Can’t wait to read!


  403. Correction: I should have typed, “Hear! Hear!” instead of “Here! Here!”

    Sorry…


  404. I agree with the argument that whites can marry and have children with a black person, yet still be racist.

    I’ve encountered white women who were married to black men, had half black children, yet would show disdain towards black women. They would make it a point to let me know that they were married to black men, implying (and in some cases openly stating) that they were more desirable than black women. I always wondered how they behaved around their black mother-in-law and sisters-in-laws.

    Even though my boyfriend is white, and I’ve dated white guys in the past, I’ve never felt the need to broadcast to white women (or any woman for that matter) that I’m involved with a white man.


  405. @Regina:

    “I’ve encountered white women who were married to black men, had half black children, yet would show disdain towards black women. They would make it a point to let me know that they were married to black men, implying (and in some cases openly stating) that they were more desirable than black women. I always wondered how they behaved around their black mother-in-law and sisters-in-laws.”

    Good point.

    It is often White women who behave this way.

    Never have I seen a Black woman shove into people’s faces their involvement with a White man, or man of another race.

    Makes me wonder if the world’s so-called *superior race of women* don’t have much confidence in their ability to hold onto a man except for their white skin that they bring into a relationship. Talk about a shakey relationship.

    I often wonder how do these women treat their Black mother-n-law? If that Black son allows his White *wife* to castigate Black women in his presence, it says a lot about him as well.

    Any man who has not the balls to stand up to a woman who denigrates the women of his own race (and especially his female relatives), is a coward of the worst kind to me.

    Then again, some White women are not so secure in their *whiteness*.

    There was a blogger who posts on IRs, who posted a comment from a White woman who went to Europe with some Black female friends. To that White woman’s amazement (or as she termed it: “Can’t understand why the white European men went for the Black girls, instead of her”),it shocked and surprised her that the European men did not run over the Black women to get to her. She, like so many White American women had been told that she was better than Black women, and she had her bubble burst when she saw the interest white European men gave Black American women.

    But, yes, this behaviour is something I see with some White women, moreso than White men.

    And I have yet to see a Black woman flaunt her relationship with a White/non-Black man in people’s faces.


  406. abagond Says:
    @ Renee: So you are saying that the main reason white men do not marry black women is because they are cowards?

    Abagond – Yes to your above question. I would say that is the case for any man of any race and to anyone who let other people dictate who they should marry.
    I also agree with this statement as well- “whites can marry and have children with a black person, yet still be racist”.

    Regna wrote: Good point.

    It is often White women who behave this way.

    Never have I seen a Black woman shove into people’s faces their involvement with a White man, or man of another race.

    Makes me wonder if the world’s so-called *superior race of women* don’t have much confidence in their ability to hold onto a man except for their white skin that they bring into a relationship. Talk about a shakey relationship.

    Good point Regina – I concurr, I’ve never seen or met a black woman talk about she is married to a white man or to any other race of man. But I have seen and heard white women state how they are married to a black man. Heck I was having a conversation with someone and this other white woman walked up and said “he only dates white women”. She said it like she was so proud. The other woman and I both looked and said “whoopdi do for him, and your point is?”

    White women who are married to black men and even the ones who aren’t talk about how black men marry white women like black men are the greatest things walking the earth. For the most part black women don’t care who the black man marries. When you see a white woman with a black man the woman looks at you like she really got a prize and the black man look at you like he knows you and think you will get Ghetto on him. Everytime I encounter that, I think to my self I hope he is with her because he loves her and not because her skin is white and because he wants to have a mixed kids.

    There are a very small group of blacks who don’t like to see their race date other races, just as any other race has their group that feels the same way. But when it comes down to it, people talk so much just to be talking. How many times have we seen white people helping black people in a time of cisis and vice versa. People are people and deep down all the racist people out there know it. You put the racist white man alone with a black man in a room and I guarantee they come out friends or at least respectful to each others race.

    When a white man get with a black woman he has this swagger about him as to say I have a beautiful black queen. I’ve talked with a lot of white men that say they love black women.

    Even thought this is a new century there is still a lot of racism out there, and you know what that’s ok…because if we all believed in the same thing then no one would have anything to talk about. And I still say that Black people as a whole must be an awesome race, because every time racism comes up it always has something to do with black people. You look around the world you see what’s on television, you realize that everyone wants that black swagger.

    Competition is Compettion no matter what we all are competing about. But one thing is for sure…in the end if you can’t love your brother and sister know matter what their skin color is….you can’t love God, because we all are made in His image. In the end….God has the last say on which race is superior over the other. Now check that out.


  407. Ann: Strom Thurmond is a bad example because he did not marry that maid, but I think you and the other commmenters made the point well enough that you can marry another race and still be strongly racist.


  408. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman, regardless of skin tone. I’m a white guy.

    Although, that green skinned chick in the new Star Trek movie wasn’t very attractive to me, but I don’t think that has to do with race so much as it has to do with it not looking like a human flesh tone. That and her obviously being a bit of a skank. Personality plays a huge role in attraction for me.


  409. I’m a white/native American….”white guy” from the west coast. I traveled through the south and wowzers! some gorgeous very dark black women… different culture in the south. There are gorgeous women in every race if you pay attention. but finding a sound woman and right relationship…is another story


  410. on Sat 6 Jun 2009 at 03:23:17 apes spread AIDS

    to renee: hell yah and we are on the rise…..the KKK doubled in size in the last years

    the SPLC reports there are an estimated 150+ skinhead gangs in the u.s. which puts the total skinhead gangs in the u.s. which is more than all black gangs combined

    ******* even black man dont even date their own race. what does that tell you when black men wont even date black women?

    white = beautiful


  411. Hello Abagond:

    Today, 6/5/2009, is the first day that I have truly read your blog in detail, since my first posting in January (post #110).

    And I see a Uncle Milton in post #262 has posted a comment on my post wherein he tries to calculate my age and he reached an erroneous age of 82 years. His error occurs because, he omitted the estimated date when my grandmother would have given birth to my mother.

    Instead, he substitutes the date that my grandmother gave birth to my mother as the date that my mother gave birth to me allowing Uncle Milton to falsely estimate that I am 82 years old.

    I do not know why this Uncle Milton was doing these calculations but, just wanted to post this correction to his errors.


  412. Being a woman of the Black race, I know Black women are beautiful because I am beautiful and I am like fine dark chacolate. Reader and Listener can you hear me?

    I agree with many of you, I feel white men don’t marry black woman because of two reasons: Media sterotypes and Black womens’ willingness to date other races.

    Personally, I just got married to a black man, but for a long time I could not find a desent black man. Again, I am beautiful, educated, and I am finnacially stable; however, black men seemed to pass me by. Finally, I came to a point where I decided that I was no longer going to wait on a man. Once, I said this, my black husband came along. The point of the story is, don’t look for love, let love find you, and most defiently don’t look for a certain race.

    I know Black women tend to wait almost for ever for their black man. As a black woman, I always dreamed of having and raising my own beautiful black chidlren. I truly feel black is beautiful, not because I am racist but, because I am comfortable in my own skin. However, this is the problem with white women that has to yell to the world that they have a black man or any race prancing around in others faces, talking about thier man or female. I have no problem with white men dating black women or vs versa because love comes in all colors. I just hate when another races marry another race only because they want to prove that they are not racists.

    Yes, biracial children are beautiful, but so are white, Asian, black and other races of children. People have to remember that God did not make only one race, but many beautiful races of people. And I know for a fact that heaven will not be seggregated.


  413. Why white men don’t marry black women? We’re certainly not racist. We just think that black women are ugly as fuck. Seriously, white boys read National Geographic not to jack off, as many tits are in there, but really more than anything delighting in the primitive and juvenile culture of sub-Saharan Africans. But really who could fall in love with a woman whose tits hang down longer than an Amish man’s beard?

    I grew up in Texas. I heard about racism all my life, especially about people in the South. Truth is, white men prefer white women. But the vast majority of the ones I have known in my life have been interested in Hispanic women, Asian women, Indian women, all kinds of women. I personally like Mexican girls. I’d prefer to be in a relationship with a white girl but Mexican is fine too. I have black friends, male and female. There’s even a black girl I know who’s pretty attractive, I think, but black women to me are off-limits. I have no problem with black people, in fact I even think a lot of black men are very attractive in the sense that they’re athletic, muscular, strong, fit, exceptional and notable specimens of the capability of the human body and human limits.

    I’m not racist in the least, I despise being called it. I think it is fair to say on behalf of white men that we are by no means racist, and in fact openly seek relationships with colored women, but we very simply think black women are ugly.

    And nobody has any place to tell me anything. I’ve been called ugly my fair share of times, in fact more than my fair share of times, throughout my life. Before schooling me in the ways of my racist and ignorant open rejection of black women as love interests, take a look in the mirror and consider the plausible dates you have turned down, the same guy or girl who has been turned down all of his or her life, that you rejected, because I assure you the rejection of an entire race by one person does not hurt as bad as the rejection felt by the one person being rejected by an entire society.


  414. In my life experience as a BW in the U.S., I have discovered that the so called “lack of attraction that MOST WM have for BW” is due mainly to the history of ANTI-BW RACISM and/or ANTI-BW COWARDICE that has been cultivated in the culture.

    I’m not convinced that MOST AMERICAN WM are born with this ANTI-BW bias because, as Abagond said, BW ARE WOMEN (whether or not WM choose to seriously date and/or marry BW).


  415. John,
    The fact that you single out ALL BW as being “ugly” ( which, in reality, isn’t ACTUALLY TRUE)and that the American WM you’ve known have been open to relationships with ALL women EXCEPT FOR BW are perfect examples of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has historically been (and continues to be) a real aspect of American culture. Your ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE towards the beauty of ALL BW is an ABNORMAL, LEARNED behaviour that is not shared by ALL WM on the planet.


  416. @ John ,

    I’m half white & Black & Othough I don’t hang around many black girls due to been treated badly by them , I’am going to Defend my Black Queens , I’am very Offended by your comment of calling Blacking Black women been Ugly cause you’re Basically calling me who’s Father is Black Ugly too so its Offensive even for me .

    There are many Black women who are Beautiful such as Mary J. Blige Who I think is So Beautiful & then if you go To Africa They have the most Beautiful Dark mid-night Chocolate Women you’ll ever see they are Beautiful People .

    So your comment is Probably even Ofensive to some White Women incluing my Mother who Read it , I’m commenting it ..lol

    How dare you call All Black Women Ugly when Theres A Verity of Color in the Black Community You can Fine A Black Woman who look damn near White & then you have some Like Mary J , & then you Have The Dark Chocolate Black Women Who I think Are Just Beautiful .

    So it just shows you’re Ignorant .. Go & Learn about Black peole & the Varieties they have ..lol

    stupid Idiot ;-(


  417. laromana, candace… i have a friend who is a black girl. she is a great person. i have a black guy friend who is one of my best friends. i have no problem with the people, i just don’t find them attractive. i used to have several black friends i hung out with just about everyday. you can call me racist as much as you want, but my actions say otherwise. i had one black friend who was a great friend and we’d drink and smoke together and he was huge and probably benched 350 pounds and could rip me to pieces but he was a gentle man. i just tell you this to say i have no problem with black people but i don’t find BW attractive other than a select few like tyra banks when she was younger.

    if you want to talk about the pervasive element of racism in the culture, we should first remember Sherman Hemsley aka George Jefferson of the Jeffersons in the late-70s, when it was widely regarded as comedy to call Tom Willis a honky.

    it is funny to call whites honkies and crackers, and indeed, carlos mencia, chris rock, and other comedians have made careers out of ridiculing the white people of North America.

    i don’t know that white skin is superior in any way and like i said before, black men are remarkable examples of the power of the human body.

    call me racist if you like. the truth is evident in my words. i have black friends, i have had many black friends over the years, and if i really want to be honest with myself and you two here… then it’s fair to say my attraction to black women notwithstanding, the ones i might find attractive i would have little chance at marrying or dating anyway.


  418. John,
    Having Black friends doesn’t negate that fact that you are an ANTI-BW RACIST. You stated in your post that ALL BW are ugly. That is an UNTRUE, ANTI-BW, RACIST statement. Whether or not you are attracted to or choose to have relationships with BW, the fact remains that there are beautiful BW just as there are beautiful women of ANY race.


  419. on Sun 21 Jun 2009 at 05:50:05 mynameismyname

    Ha!

    The whole “I’m not racist, I have black friends” line!

    “Black men are so powerful”! It gets no better! The whole “physical black buck” stereotype. Wow.

    This blog really attracts modern white racists!


  420. John ,

    Having Black friends don’t make you Not Racist , Thats A old trick of the Trade whenever A white person calls out A racist Comment the first Shit they say is I have Black friends , Which to me Don;t take away from you thinking the way you think RIGHT?

    Hell I know many White ppl Including My Grandpaw who had Black friends But when My Mother had my Sister & I he Disowned her & Us for Years Until now because He was A Racist Asshole who Only looked at Black people as His Maids & Cooks ….lol True .
    It wasn’t until early 00’s is when he Started Accepting His Black Biracial Grandchilden Including My Auunts & Cousins kids who are Biracial.

    So so set here telling us The most oldest Trick of the trade The Damn ” I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS” like its going to take aay at the fact You think all BLack women are Ugly .

    Hell I’ve seen many Black FINE Brothaz walking along side Fat Ugly white Women Or Even Some Skiny Trashy looking Poor White Trash …
    So Theres many Ugly ass White women ..lol


  421. So I suppose you calling black women “ugly” is a way to make yourself feel better, because you wouldn’t have much of a chance with them otherwise? Hmm sort of like a defense mechanism. Interesting…. I personally never understood how SOME people can call a whole group ugly without having ever seen ALL of them. I do usually notice this type disgruntled attitude (African, Native American, Asian etc. men/women are ugly)among those that are often REJECTED by some members of the said group… Though it is quite possible for a person to be attracted to a certain type, they usually just say “well I’m just not attracted to x”, they don’t come up with various insults and stereotypes to justify their reasoning quite often this is done when the person has some kind of “issue” with that group..


  422. John ,

    Plus many Black women don’t like White men , I’m Myself Who’s Biracial Black & White Don’t like White Guys , I Love me some Chocolate Brothaz for real , & thats why? many of Black women are & tend to stay single , some do & date Latino or Hispanic or Puerto Rican , But its Rare to see many
    BlacK Sistaz dating A white guy .

    I personally have dated Whites guys in my younger days in Junior High ..lol However it was A Black guy That turned me into Loving Black men .

    So its True Once you go Black you’ll never ever want to Go Back & Its true .

    Thats why? so many White girl’s go crazy when A Nigga hit it & then try to Leave them …lol true .


  423. I can’t speak for all white men but for me African American women just turn me on so much more than white women. It started when I was in high school and ran track. I used to interact with BW more often I guess and developed feelings wanting to be with them. I was in the Army later on, where you see more of interacial dating than anywhere else. If I hooked up at a club it was usually with African American women. I went on a date with a BW in the late 80’s and heard all kinds of rude comments from black and white people. It was enough that I never went out with a BW again. What I like about BW are that most will actually tell you how it is without holding back. Some people find this a turn off but I’d rather have the truth than be led with false hopes that everything is okay. BW have been better in bed except for the one (screamer from hell) white woman. I’ve been with about 75 white women and 15 black women. My best friend who is white married a black woman and they’ve been married for 27 years. I just saw a black woman in a restaurant today, and she had on these tight blue jean shorts and high heels. Damn, she was fine. I love Black women I wished I had the balls to marry one.


  424. I am a white man and the reason I do not date black women is because black women are born PSYCHOTIC. That doesn’t have anything to do with me. Or is that just too complicated for you?


  425. Well “Reality” it DOES have to do with you because that is YOUR perception, or is THAT just too complicated for YOU to understand?


  426. Reality2008 Says:

    Sat 27 Jun 2009 at 23:49:45
    I am a white man and the reason I do not date black women is because black women are born PSYCHOTIC. That doesn’t have anything to do with me. Or is that just too complicated for you?

    laromana says,
    This is a clear example of the REALITY of the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that afflicts many American WM. BW are not to blame for the existence of IRRATIONAL, PSYCHOTIC ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.


  427. There has been a lot of racist haters and racialists posting their poison on BW on this thread of late. These people are just jealous, insecure who cannot express their racial preference without putting down BW. These people have neither the courtesy and courage to really state their narrow racial/gender aesthetic preference.

    Laromana,

    Thank you so much for putting those haters in their place.

    La Reyna


  428. John (or any white man who thinks most black women are ugly):

    If, for the sake of argument, you had the chance to marry one of those few beautiful black women, would you? Would you marry her if she was your only chance to have children, knowing that they all would be black?


  429. La Reyna,
    You’re welcome and thanks for your support.


  430. I find this website and many of the comments here to be quite offensive. To say that white men are racist is a racist comment in itself. One could just as easily ask why so few black women marry white men. The reason why there are few interracial marriages (between ALL races) is because people are likely to date or marry people with similar cultural interests and backgrounds. Obviously there are many, many factors contributing to your statistics (and I disagree with all six that you presented). Very typical, ignorant, and uneducated generalizations made.


  431. The more I read, the more I am appalled at the stupidity of most of you. One word: bias. You have to look at both sides of the situation. You could say “White men don’t approach black women.” Or you could say “Black women reject white men’s advances.” You have no idea what happens – none. And you can’t argue from personal experience, because one person’s experience doesn’t mean shit compared to what goes on in all of America, or the world.


  432. Back to the topic at hand…America is just a historically racist place. Considering its history, it’s not surprising why there is not even more mixing. After 400 years, we should look like Brazil, a true melting pot but we don’t. Everyone at least in America kind of self-segregates in a way, that’s not normal.
    It’s sad. Maybe in the distant future, things will get better.


  433. on Tue 7 Jul 2009 at 23:41:59 mynameismyname

    Brazil is even more racist than the U.S.

    Intense “race-mixing” did not provide equality or racial harmony at all.

    Look at the history of the Americas. Look how it was discovered. How could anyone expect equality, brotherhood and peace? It contradicts how this country was founded.


  434. I think one of the largest factors is that people don’t normally cross cultural barriers to meet people – it’s just too much work. Making relationships work is hard enough as it is. Very few white guys and guys in general have the balls to do this. On the other hand, put a reasonably good looking, nice black girl in a mostly white school, and she’ll get LOTS of male attention.


  435. I truly agree with Myname

    mynameismyname Says:

    Brazil is even more racist than the U.S.

    Intense “race-mixing” did not provide equality or racial harmony at all

    I have many friends Afro-brazilians they’re always telling me , how they feel more respected in USA or EU.


  436. Isaac said,
    The more I read, the more I am appalled at the stupidity of most of you. One word: bias. You have to look at both sides of the situation. You could say “White men don’t approach black women.” Or you could say “Black women reject white men’s advances.” You have no idea what happens – none. And you can’t argue from personal experience, because one person’s experience doesn’t mean shit compared to what goes on in all of America, or the world.

    laromana said,
    Are you INTENTIONALLY ignoring the CLEARLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER comments made by John on this post alone or the other examples of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE from some WM on other posts on abagond’s site? That is STUPIDITY.

    The BW who have noted the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE of MOST WM in America towards them base it on our factual experiences NOT bias. I/these other BW are/have always been OPEN to IRR’s with WM.

    It’s clear from the higher numbers of IRR’s between WM and NON-BW that the historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has ALWAYS been a part of American culture is a factor in how MOST WM view/relate to BW.


  437. I’ll say this – when I jerk off to porn on the internet, it’s usually white girls or asian girls. sometimes black bettys too but not as much.


  438. Thanks a million Carl for that lovely tidbit. Now toddle off back to your little porn site and stay there..
    Please BW stop hanging around this thread feeling sorry for yourselves and making comments about how noone wants you! It is negative and unattractive. Relax, be happy, enjoy your lives – what will be will be. No decent attractive men (of any race) are here on this site- only losers who secretly get off on fueling your misery. Ignore them, please.


  439. laromana –
    there will always be idiots who will ruin an intelligent conversation, I agree with that.

    however, I was addressing the topic of this post: marriage statistics between white men and black women. Abagond states that white men are racist because they marry so few black women. That is unfair, and I suspect its untrue.

    From my own experience, I have been rejected by black women before. It could be racism or it could for other reasons. What I’m trying to say is don’t jump to conclusions about an entire group.


  440. And as for “John” who thinks BW are ugly but praises the physical attributes of BM in at least 2 posts – you are SO gay my friend. LOL! You’re obviously fantasizing about having sex with BM…or your white wife being sexed by one while you watch. Two – as I understand it – VERY common white male fantasies.
    Hilarious yet tragic.


  441. another reason for the low numbers is a larger white population spread over a larger area. the black population is more concentrated in large cities and in the south. there are huge numbers of white people in small towns across the north and midwest where few, if any, black people live, giving the chance to marry or even meet a black woman to be small


  442. Although I wouldn’t state that ALL WM who claim to be attracted to BW but don’t/won’t marry them are racist, my long term, ongoing experience (and that of MANY BW) with WM in America does support the FACT that MOST/MANY WM in America don’t/won’t marry BW for reasons related to ANTI-BW racism (eg. BW are “ugly”, BW aren’t INDIVIDUALS but STEREOTYPES based on racist lies/myths, etc.) or because they are ANTI-BW cowards (eg. fear losing White privilege, fear what friends, family, or society will say if they marry a BW, etc.).

    There is nothing IDIOTIC about acknowledging these facts.


  443. on Wed 8 Jul 2009 at 22:30:05 mynameismyname

    Orchid,

    If that’s the case, explain why every other non-black “racial” minority has a higher rate of IR marriage with whites than blacks do, when blacks make up the largest racial minority? (Notice I say ‘racial minority’, this dispells the whole “Hispanic is the largest minority” when that is not a racial category).


  444. whats interesting is that in the U.K the amount of white men married to black women is higher than the u.s and more so with mixed black women. in the u.k most asians are actually south asian & due to cultural & religious difference they are less likely to be involved in interracial marriages, although many date interracially.

    to be exact about 1/3rd of black caribbean women, 50% mixed black african & white women and 70% mixed black caribbean & white women are married to white men in the u.k. it would seem that interracial marriage is evan more common in countries like Germany where the amount of ethnic minorities is scarce.


  445. generally i have always found it ironic that black women sometimes blame black men for the fact so many are single. i personally would say that black men approach all kinds on women and do not mean to isolate black women.

    i think that white men are more racist in their approach to intteracial dating & care too much about what people think (that being their white family & friends, black men e.t.c). i have been told i’m attractive & i am well educated, but instead the only white guys that approach tend to be those that are only after one thing.

    i have known white guys that have told me before that they were unsure whether i would be interested. maybe they should grow some confidence & follow the lead of black men who approach any woman & don’t worry so much about societal pressures. The truth is i just want a great guy be they black or white. but a white guy who either wants me just to try out a black girl or who isn’t confident enough to date a woman of colour just isn’t good enough.


  446. Anonymous says:

    generally i have always found it ironic that black women sometimes blame black men for the fact so many are single. i personally would say that black men approach all kinds on women and do not mean to isolate black women.

    I kind of agree with you in certain way( only for the blame thing), but you should admit if there is so many black women single, it’s maybe bcz most of them want to date “a good black man”and most of time they don t want them( I am still talking in UK, even I think it s the same in US).

    I don t think it s so terrible, if you want to date someone like you even I also think some bw have to be more open-minded

    if black men were really open to date everyone they would be fair with everybody this included black women.


  447. there are a lot of black women around that prefer to date black men, but they are fewer in numbers than eligible white men. i have also however met women of colour who are open to dating white men that they are attracted to and whome have a good personality.

    but the problem lies more so with the white man because they should be more open to thinking seriously about a relationship with a black woman.


  448. anon,

    Are you from England or the U.S.?”


  449. on Fri 10 Jul 2009 at 06:14:59 Truth B. Told

    if black men were really open to date everyone they would be fair with everybody this included black women.

    In the US 91.4% of married Black men are married to Black women.


  450. I am from england & although more white men here marry black or mixed race women than in the u.s, there are some that still seem to hold prejudices and in my experience other european nationalities seem more attracted to women of colour ie. german or french men.


  451. Anons for comments#451 and #457,
    Thanks for confirming the FACT that MORE EUROPEAN WM are open to SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS and MARRIAGE to BW than MOST AMERICAN WM. Hopefully, American WM who “claim to be attracted to BW” will learn from/follow this positive example from EUROPEAN WM’s IRR’s with BW.


  452. on Sat 11 Jul 2009 at 19:55:15 Truth B. Told

    Or you could also move to Europe if you are that hard up for a White man.


  453. To commenter above:
    The topic is “Why so few white men marry black women”.

    NO ONE is asking for your IRRELEVANT, OFF TOPIC advice.

    If you’re not “TOO HARD UP”, maybe you could stick to the topic at hand.


  454. on Sat 11 Jul 2009 at 23:21:53 Truth B. Told

    The topic is “Why so few white men marry black women”.

    Then perhaps you should also stick to the topic at hand instead of lecturing, begging, berating, etc American White men.

    I think abagond was asking it as a open-ended question, not a demand of American White men.


  455. To commenter above,
    I am ON TOPIC and my comments are directly related to it -“Why so few white men marry black women”.

    Reread what abagond says at the start of this post,
    “White men with black women are not as common IN AMERICA as you might expect. Even though an eighth of AMERICAN women are black, fewer than one married white man in 400 has a black wife! That cannot be an accident. Compare that to how many have Asian wives: about one in 100 – even though there are way fewer Asian women.”

    “Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:
    132: white women
    100: American women in general
    23: Asian women
    2: black women

    If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).


  456. My goodness lol wow, I haven’t been to this site in a while and I see these comments…amazing. Some hilarious stuff (mostly the outrageously obvious bitterness) some of it was just depressing for a few.

    Sexism + colorism are two of the big boys that black women have to deal with e-v-e-r-y-s-i-n-g-l-e day. I’m hearing some really screwy ideals of what a female should “act” like in order to be considered a woman in the first place and then a whole mess of attributes she must have to be someone of value(as valuable as a woman can be by the sounds of some of these guys). Asian men aren’t masculine and they’re women are ultra feminine? Black men are mega manly and so are black women? LOL, I’m soooo tired of that bullshit hunter gatherer- pale/quiet/small = feminine and tall/dark/upfront = masculine, instead of being an individual and being responsible for how you treat people, you’re anthropologists when it suits you. I’ve come to realize this a long time ago, there is no logic that will stop a racist from being a racist, what they believe serves as convenient stepping stones for their self empowerment and that’s that and if you’re not with them you’re clearly against them. You’re pretty much damned either way so just do your thing boo boo.

    Frankly, the whole marriage thing is just another construct, one I believe to be overrated and not for everybody. Seen people stress over not finding somebody (anybody! please!) when they hit a certain age, people who got pressured into it (it’s the right thing to do or you’re living in sin!), I could go on but, I’m saying all this to explain why I think of those stats are bull. There are too many happy fulfilled single/unmarried people, and there are too many defeated, unsatisfied married ones. A lot of people will probably think I’m some man hating chick, not so, it’s just that I don’t value men’s “assessment” of who they think I am. If a rock solid best buddy who can turn me on comes along then gravy, if not, oh well, I’m not going to choke on my biscuit.

    Funny as how I’m sitting here watching The Time Machine starring Guy Pearce and Samantha Mumba.


  457. on Sun 12 Jul 2009 at 16:28:35 Truth B. Told

    If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).

    That’s my point. This post wasn’t about changing it, it was about discussing it.

    I won’t help change it because I have no vested interest in who White American Men marry or don’t marry as long as no-one’s freedom is impeded.

    They are FREE to MARRY WHATEVER KIND OF WOMAN THEY PLEASE for WHATEVER REASON they want.


  458. Since my original question was deflected for other topics, I’m wondering why the main reason is because white men are racist. Last I checked marriage requires TWO people. But I see some of you WANT to think white men are racists.


  459. And if you constantly accuse white men of being racist then they will definetely want to stay away from you. Or else it will just appear like that cause that’s what you want to see.


  460. this topic is a very relevant 1 and 1 of contention… i myself am of mixed race but i identify more or i should say i am of african ethnicity having grown up with my african family…

    i totally understand the issues raised here regarding white men black women and the truth is what it is… but i think the majority of white men will not b attracted to marry black women altho it happens it is not prevalent… some may ask y is this important but the thing is we must always remember that we are only human and trying to understand the human condition and thought process will be our mission in life forever.. we may never uncover the mysteries but as long as we can ask a question we will seek an answer.

    not all white men just like not all ppl of other races are racist. I really feel that white men are just like other men… shown false images of beauty and manipulated and brainwashed to some extent by the media which states that to be beautiful we must look a certain way… (who owns the media rite???) since time immemorable black ppl have struggled with the notion that to be of a lighter complexion and to have good hair was the way to be beautiful… suffer that to be so, we still possess the idea that black women who are beautiful look well white… and this is the case we are faced with daily… i know i know ur saying but she’s mixed thats not her prob well i am darker than most mixed ppl i kno…

    familiarity breeds love i think so being around a lovely black woman could spark some interest in an open minded WM so he asks her out they fall in love badda bing badda boom… a lot of WM are never around BW and vice versa so they never get a chance to see the beautiful side of sistas… Hey or if they are they could well be intimidated by our looks… :-)

    its an old saying and rather cliche but here goes, love is blind and if we would allow ourselves the opportunity to be colour blind, race blind, and let love lead the way then i think we can make this issue a thing of the past, but then again is this really possible with ppl like steve sailer around… uuummmmmmmmmmmm i dont think so…

    God bless! God is the Boss!


  461. Noting the FACT that European WM marry BW at higher rates than American WM IS a relevant, positive, and constructive part of this discussion. It also highlights a possible SOLUTION to the problem of why so few WM marry BW in America.

    Obviously, NO ONE on this post has said that ALL WM are racist towards BW even though there have been several blatantly, racist comments made about BW by certain WM on this post.


  462. To Laromana:

    You said:

    “Given the numbers of white, black and Asian women there are in America and looking at who white men marry, you can work out how much they like different kinds of women as wives:
    132: white women
    100: American women in general
    23: Asian women
    2: black women

    If the TRUTH HURTS WHY DON’T YOU HELP CHANGE IT instead of “berating,lecturing” and patronizing those who are TELLING THE TRUTH (as you’ve done repeatedly throughout this post).”

    Well “the truth” as it were is a misunderstanding and application of statistics (I’ve taken a course or two in statistics) here was my previous reply to Abagond on the issue:

    Thu 19 Mar 2009 at 09:47:29

    To Abagond:

    In regards to:

    “That last one is dead wrong. Look at the percentage of married Americans in 2006 who were married outside their race:

    * 19.5 Asian women
    * 8.4 black men
    * 7.2 Asian men
    * 3.6 black women
    * 2.2 white men
    * 1.9 white women

    “It is white people who stick most to their own kind, not black women – or even Asian men.”

    Hmmm.. well that would be a true statement if whites had an equal or lesser percentage of the population than the other groups but since they are a majority, at five times greater in number than the next largest group, on a random basis they would partner up with other whites much more than other groups. The racial/ethnic breakdown for people in the US who are of legal age to marry is roughly 70% white, 12% Black, 12% Latino, 4% Asian, and 1% Multiracial, 1% Native American (these figures don’t exactly represent the current demographics of the US because minorities below the age of 18 (for my calculations.. the legal age to marry..)are a higher percentage of the populace..)

    If marriage always occurred in an individuals adult life and was completely random we would expect the white interracial rate to be 30%, the Black rate to be 88%, the Latino rate to be 88%, the Asian rate to be 96%. On that basis let’s look at the interracial marriage rate of Black men, the second highest of all the groups you listed (8.4%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (88%), we see that Black men marry at 9.5% of their expected (random) interracial marriage rate and white men (2.2%) compared to their expected out marriage rate (30%) are at 7.3% of their expected interracial marriage rate and Black women (3.6% actual) versus random rate of (88%) are at 4% of their expected rate of interracial marriage, Asian men at 7.2% interracial marriage versus a potential rate of 96% are at 7.5% of their expected rate of interracial marriage whereas Asian women are at (19.5/96) 20.3% of their expected out marriage rate and white women (1.9/30) are at 6.3% of their expected out marriage.

    By the way intraracial marriages among Asians and Latinos are increasing not decreasing with the increased immigration of the last few decades (more choices for partners.. more ethnic enclaves..) whereas interracial marriages between whites and other groups are increasing.”


  463. Uncle Milton,
    That was another point I was going to make, how the populations are different, and can’t be considered the actual statistics.

    Also, the difference between black women (3.6%) vs. white men (2.2%) is only 1.4%, a pretty small difference if you ask me, considering the population sizes.


  464. a bit off topic, but i think white people are often misunderstood today. as a white male, i often feel like that. because of their dishonorable past they get criticised a lot, so lots of white people are self-conscious about what other races think of them, especially blacks.

    this is why blacks sometimes think whites ignore or avoid them in public. its also why white men are intimidated by black women, more than asians or hispanics.

    also, a lot of white men think they can’t live up to black men. in the media, blacks are portrayed as “cool” and they represent high in sports, music, acting and celebrity-types. white men feel more like they can compete with asian or hispanic men. the situation is not the same in canada or europe.

    as for the haters on here, they are the WEAKEST form of insecure whites. they are just sad, lonely guys with small dicks.
    that is all.


  465. rollerderby,
    I can understand what you’re saying about why some WM may be more intimidated by BW than by HW or AW.

    I (and other BW who are open to IRR’s with WM) need WM who feel the way you do to understand that BW are individuals who are just as approachable and easy to get to know as other NON-WW. Also, you DON’T need to “live up to BM and stereotypes about them” in order to get to know BW. BW are independent human beings from BM and establishing relationships with us has NOTHING to do with how BM are viewed.


  466. like “whites” who did not murder the “jews?” I think you mean nazis. ahem, small difference. most of the jews were “white.” there are jews in every race, and almost every corner of the world. I’m jewish and white. unless you know what your saying, keep quiet, because it makes you look like a fool.


  467. Not all slavery is created equal.

    Here’s a link that explains this better than I can: http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/05/slavery-101-clearing-up-some.html


  468. kara – I understand that

    in jewish law there is a very complex system of laws about how a slave was treated. Some of which were the first big steps towards womens rights…i.e. if you must sell your daughter into slavery – she must be treated a specific way or the owner must release her back to you etc…

    It was the first time women were viewed as more than animals to be sold at a fathers whim…they had rights…

    BUT – you are missing my point – i cant believe the prior to EU influence they didnt take and hold slaves. They did. The african culture – like most tribal cultures, would take women as prizes, kill off the males in a fight for resources and territory. The Vikings did it, the Picts, the American Indians and the african tribes…

    The black culture was not a group of peaceful co existing tribes that never committeed attrocities open each other.. they werent the first hippie communes living peacefully…they were waring with each other – the white

    So to the picts and the celts and the anglo saxon tribes were vicious and brutal to each other…you go far enough back in anyones history and you find a less civilized version of humanity….a spirt that I freely admit is here today- just cleaned up. We all pretend its not there…but look at anyone close enough and you see a selfish, self centered savage…regardless of race.

    Now white society rose to power in a big way…and continuted their savage ways on a larger scale. But – they were the same savagery as before – just global…white society was no different – just in charge…evil, sinful, disgusting…but no different…just inpower…

    I simply belive to blame anyone group when if we open our eyes we see starteling similarties of evil horrors regardless of race…

    If races were reversed I believe the same thing would have happened…because humans are evil and sinful.


  469. Davida,

    I can dig that. However, black Africans did not benefit as much from slavery in comparison to white Europeans. It’s not like they sold their own and were let off scot-free for being good Negroes or, worst, good business partners. The same European countries who participated in slavery also participated in Africa’s colonization because of patriarchal viewpoints of missionaries who wanted to save the savage, of explorers who wanted to claim land that wasn’t theirs, and of colonialists who wanted to find and take natural resources like oil, gold, and such.

    So, while there are startling similarities between the evils committed by any race, we can all agree that one race won that battle and it continues to affect people. It’s all sunshine and unicorns until I am profiled in Saks Firth Avenue due to some damn stereotype based on hundreds of years of oppression and being considered less than.


  470. True – the in power group certainly continues to piss on the rest…

    And I benefit because I was born into white priviledge…

    Which is why I delight in ripping sales associates who profile BW in stores…”excuse me – is there a reason you asked that lovely BW if she needs help 6 times and ignored me? Is there a reason you follow her around the shop? Is it because you think because of her race she is going to steal something. Could you be any more racist? You just lost my business” said very loudly…and then I leave…

    Now I know most strong BW dont need me to do this…but I find (unfortunately) when I say it it shames them…they just write it off as a BW pulling the race card otherwise. I know my words should not count more than anyone elses…but we should use the tools we are given.


  471. Who cares if white men wont marry/date black women most sistas i know aren’t the least bit attracted to white dudes. I think white men are just fasinated by our voluptous “attributes” that they cant get from their counterparts and the thought that most of them do fantisize about us even though they’ll never admit it. I have an abundant amount of love and respect for my beautiful ebony caramel chocolate people. And i want to keep my race alive by producing ALL black children lots of them.


  472. orchid, speak for yourself.


  473. Nubian

    Don’t make too many. The earth is battling as it. Quality rather than quantity!


  474. on Wed 22 Jul 2009 at 06:15:40 alwaysright101

    black people having pride for their race is a result of trying to make up for all the negativity they attribute with being black.

    there is a reason, people think when white people have pride its racist.

    for starters, they usually spout off something racist about other races….and then they dont understand that they are the majority.

    blacks have had to and still have to, deal with hateful remarks, not alot of positive images in the media.

    so blacks arent being racist for having pride….they are doing it to make up for the fact that blacks dont get much positive attention.


  475. imagine if hitler’s wife gave birth to a black baby ha ha picture the look on his face. he would literally shit his pants


  476. “Hitler Juice”

    No one cares what Hitler would have thought

    Hitler was BUTT UGLY in the first place.


  477. It is strange that “white people” walk around acting like they are better then everybody else.

    I don’t see a halo above their heads and their feet touch the ground when they walk.

    So where do they get their superiority complex from?
    In my opinion, you have to have more then just straight hair texture and pale skin if you are going to convince me that you are some type of super-species.


  478. White men are child molesters, and they also abuse animals.
    I wouldn’t touch one with a ten foot pole.

    http://whitewatch.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/dutch-pedophile-molests-child-live-and-audience-laughs/


  479. Agabond, you bring up very good points and you speak the truth on this topic.

    You can also look at many of the websites white people created to see how much they hate black people.

    The whites have Chimpout.com,
    Niggermania.com, Stormfront.com, KKK.com,
    etc. etc…

    They spend alot of time comparing black people to gorillas, chimpanzees, apes,
    and calling us monkeys…

    And they expect black people to look up to them and respect them! LOL


  480. on Thu 23 Jul 2009 at 23:41:06 alwaysright101

    you know reyna, some of the websites you listed make me think of something.

    they spend lots of time saying blacks are lazy and do nothing.

    but thousands upon thousands of white people spend their entire day online saying how much they hate black people.

    they go to anything thats about black people, and start spewing their venomous hatred…even at abagond’s blog!

    they are just like conservatives who spend the whole day saying liberals have no jobs…but then they always seem to be online complaining about something the liberals supposedly did or didnt do…

    black people live in a catch 22 life…


  481. You can also look at many of the websites white people created to see how much they hate black people.

    Yes white people hate black people so much that Obama carried the majority of the white vote in states like Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Washington, Oregon, etc..


  482. Only 44% of whites voted for Obama overall. In some states, like Uncle Milton pointed out, it was over 50%. But in others it was as low as 10%.


  483. Hi, I am a black female at the age of 21 and I date a white male at the age of 23 going on 24 this year. Since a little girl I have always like white males but I liked black males too. I grew up never understanding racism and i still do not. Even though we are all diff. colors how diff. does it make us. I will never hate a white person who is racist and tell me to my face how I am nothing. I love my partner because he can be himself no matter what. He has a lot of masculinity but that is not why I like him. When I first met him we would talk about anything. Most of it was never about race just us. I do not care about the past because we cannot change it. Whites today should not have to apologize for it because they did not do that to our ancestors. Their ancestors did. Also Africans do it to there own also, but I know it does not make it right for another race to do so. Everything happens for a reason and i truly believe that. How can a white person or any one else from any other race tell me that they hate me? My question would be for what reason.

    I have not lived long but I know that I have a heart. You tell me you hate me I tell you I love you and that you are in my prayers. My boyfriend got to know me and he liked what he found. If everyone can do that life would be better for all of us. We all know that stereotypes are true for most or some but not all. My second great-grandfather was a white man, blond hair and blue eyes. He killed my second great-grandmother, but I still chose to date a white man. Black women do not date white men because of the same reason vice versa. That is because of how the were raised. Its just too complicated sometimes. Why would a black woman subject herself to racism and hatred just because of statistics. Why would a white man date a black woman just because a black man will not. People have their own preference from experience and parental advisory. Most of it is not based off lies. Some whites just do not want to mixed with such a stubborn race. That goes for blacks also. Why date a race who thinks less of you because of your skin color. Sometimes whites and blacks are so much alike they just cannot get along. Have you ever seen two people who are so much alike that sooner or later they clash. Most blacks have learned from whites and most of their lifestyles are based off whites livelihoods, morals, wants,and desires. I have met several white men who were interested in me and did not hesitate to make it known. I am from the south but now I live in the state of Washington. Seems to me that some people are just against the issue of being told what others think they should do for black women. Some black women just do not want a white man and a white just do not want a black woman. Okay I get it so maybe the rest of us should just let life go on and stop making site that degrades black women. AT time I was a little offended even though a lot of men from many diff. races thinks that I am an acceptable black woman to look and and date. I do not have a horrible attitude, I am not loud, intimidating by any means. I just wanted a man to love me and appreciate me for who I am inside and that so happen to be a white man, but I know plenty good black men.

    In today’s society we are mostly worried about careers and cheating in interracial relationships rather racism. Yes at a point of time it will be address but only because of an outside source. It like force being acted on from an outside force. It has to be stopped somehow. All I am saying is leave the issue alone. White men do date black women and yes there is a rise so why exactly are we complaining about white men are not dating black women when it is actually happening. Even in younger cultures. I dated my first white boyfriend in middle school. I have even seen little kids having their first girlfriends and boyfriends with other races do to lighter skin color. Well if you all would like to ask me questions and I am fairly reasonable with my answers feel free. Just do not be rude and outrageous but do ask. Do not hold back. I am here to learn and try to figure out what we really want to know. Not history or facts but what we do not know about each other because we are either too afraid or stubborn to ask.

    Kira


  484. One more thing about the importance of this in the first place. My boyfriend and I talk about marriage as normally as a white/black couple would when they feel it is necessary.


  485. Sorry for this but yes some blacks are just as extreme with racism just like some whites. I would also like to say that the only reason people may see most black women as ghetto is because that’s all they try to see. Sometimes I am quite surprised to bump into a female that is. It is annoying to me but sometimes its rare for me. I cannot speak for up north but how can you find that ghetto black female unless you are in the ghetto. Realistically there are plenty black females that are not ghetto who has thought about dating a white man. Like I said before, white men and black women kind of think alike. They know that they have interest but do to the past they sometimes do not know how to approach each other. Honestly when I first met my boyfriend we were taking a PT test and I touched him to get his attention. In the moments of me doing so I was hoping that he did not hate or dislike black girls. I was kind of holding my breath on that one. When he responded in a calm, respective voice I was relieved. I was cautious of a white man. Afterward I felt pretty stupid for even assuming that he would hate me just because I was helping him. I have had experiences where a white guy did not like me just because I was black but that was okay. Most of my friends have been white throughout my entire lifetime and there is no mistaking that I am black.

    I agree with sanantoniobeauty. My boyfriend loves to take me to dinner. No I did not put myself out there, but yes deep down I yearned for a white man. Don’t know why but I did and I still yearn for my boyfriend.
    There have been times where I tried to cross a street and whites would just pass right by and not stop and being in the military it is common to stop. I ignore it most the time but there has been a time where only one car stopped and the other just did not want to, even though we have the right of way at any crosswalk. I have gotten unnecessary stares that sometimes hit me pretty bad. It is a little painful to know that some people would treat a young person this way. My first encounter with a racist person seemed unreal. I just kept on with my life, but with every encounter they are unforgettable.

    Back to the subject at hand. I am close to the color of caramel just with a tan. The only black features I really have are my lips and breast. My mother is Indian, white, and black and my father is European and something else. To me I still look black but a lot of white men are willing to date or have sex with me. I do not pursue their wants and desires but it is not hard to see or even get a white man to tell me so. I have had the looks from other black males but who cares. You just kind of get use to it. Color does not matter, love and happiness does when it comes to my relationship. Not only that, I date one of the whitest men in America. He is from the south and has a country accent out this world. He is a body builder and I would have never guessed that he would like black women. He was not shy and he approached me just like any other guy would and that is with the indication that he likes what he see. Yes I work out and I have a body that is attractive and that plays a huge factor in a white man liking me. Even coming to loving me. Especially the man I am dating.

    Well it would seem that I have written enough. Please feel free to respond, criticize, and ask questions.


  486. Sakira:

    I hope not to sound too judgmental or critical, but you sound like your boyfriend’s the prize here instead of you. Your statement “To me I still look black but a lot of white men are willing to date or have sex with me.” does not sound right. This statement is filled (in my opinion) with you being so “grateful” and “surprised” that a white man finds you attractive or sexual. My dear, white men have always found us sexy, even the so-called white men who label us fat, undesirable, ghetto, weave wearers, etc. It is more acceptable to publically criticize and offend us than to tell the truth in fear of being ostracized by his friends, colleagues especially white women, even in 2009. The problem is that they will hardly ever “wife” us or for some not be seen in public with us, let alone have children with us. Now, this is not all white men. I am sure there are some that fall in love, marry and honor a black woman, but unfortunately, this is not the majority.


  487. hmmmmmmm interesting topic. for me its not about race its about up bringing and attitude.if you love and respect people i dont think so if you can put people in groups.usually it black or white.why is it so?
    anyway look at the inward and not the outward appearance


  488. I feel like I kind of agree with what Isha #324 and Black&German #325 said. I observed that most of the white men that approached me were from Sweden, Denmark, France…but rarely were American. Interesting.

    @Black&German, you are correct about our obsession with race. This French guy I dated said that he saw me as just as an “American” although he’s aware of my skin color, he saw me as just that and asked why is that the U.S. puts people’s ethnicity before American–i.e. Chinese-American, etc–why not just be seen as an American? Racism exists everywhere, but I think that a country’s history also plays a part. I dated this French guy for awhile and he told me that strangely the French have an admiration for Black American culture and the people…but yet they’re very discriminatory towards N. Africans and Africans–which I think is wrong. No one should be discriminated against b/c of their religion or color.

    Also, maybe it’s like a nagging feeling at the back of my head but I absolutely get annoyed when I hear “It’s because black women are loud, obnoxious, etc,bitchy.” If you really think about it, “loud and obnoxious” can apply to a woman of any race because I’ve met them. It’s really unfair to say “all”. I had this black woman tell me that she was doing her part to save the “race” by marrying a black men when she learned my boyfriend was white. This made me feel very uncomfortable because in short, I felt that she was calling me a “sellout”. In the end, I think it balls down to how open-minded a person is.

    Race aside, it seems like some(please note, that I said SOME and not all) men are also bothered by a woman’s intelligence. For some reason, some men feel threatened when they learn I have a Master’s and have done some traveling outside of the US, etc. I’ve experienced this from both black and white men. Or it’s probably just the men I’m meeting.

    @Candace, I don’t know if I would completely agree that black women are jealous that the other are taking their men. But I do know that there are some that would fit into that category. I could care less if someone wants to date a person of a different ethnic background. It’s none of my business. Race aside, I think it’s in a woman’s instinct to feel that there aren’t too many potential partners and they feel the need to compete. I’ve experienced a “brush off” from black, white, Asian, Hispanic women whenever I enter a place where there’s men. I remember when I went to a filmmaker’s panel, it seemed like the women decided immediately that they weren’t going to make the effort to be nice to me although I was cordial to them. The men in the room were friendlier and I guess they saw me as a threat, although I had no interest in dating any of the men. It’s probably in our blood to compete. But I guess when you throw race into the mix, many feel the need to preserve their own and feel “the other” taking that away from them. I necessarily don’t agree with that logic, but that’s how some people think.

    Call me naive, but when I like someone, I don’t allow their skin color to stop me from dating them. Everyone is entitled to their preference.


  489. I found this to be such an interesting and layered topic. I am not a black woman, but I have noticed through the past few years that while many people like to think and say that the media and our society in general has become more equalized and blah, blah, you still see nothing but mostly white women as idealized beauty all over the media and everywhere else you look. Even if not all of the idealized women are white, the mainstream standard to even qualify as beauty is absolutely a euro-centric one! BLONDE HAIR BLUE EYES! It almost seems as though the old notion of racism has morphed into some sort of class system based on the shade and tone of ones skin; the lighter you are, the better off you are, it has really become a very ugly and indignant truth in our society. Absolutely Abagond is right on the money about the blindness of white America to this situation or any race related situation because it does not stare them in the face everyday, and most of the ones who are sensitive to it from my experience come from a middle class environment and maybe had a chance or two to see environments poorer than middle or upper middle class. At the same time I do also believe that there is a lot of the sticking to their own mentality going on, and a little bit of hanging onto negative feelings from the old type of racism as well. I am no fool and I do know that racism is alive and well here in america, under a presumed identity but alive nonetheless! My hope/vision of race relations in America, is that everyone will just look at people for people, observe actions and behaviors of one another instead of only observing color. I really wish that we would all just hurry up and mix with each other so that we can stop feeling and thinking so much about racism and prejudice against race, we need not lose our heritage, but acknowledge and recognize that we all share an American culture, though each version of that culture may be a little different, its all ours to share. In a generation or so our stories won’t be so different from each other, all our backgrounds will be simply MIXED!
    I know my vision of race relations is naive TODAY, but I have the utmost confidence in us a people that my vision will just be the ordinary one day. I myself am very proud of my heritage, but that does not mean that I am as narrowed minded to only stick to what I already know. I hope that the kids I have one day are mixed and I want them to know their heritage from both sides. It all seems funny to me when people try to stick to their own as they call it, because physiologically speaking it is actually better to seek outside your race as to strengthen immune systems for your children. The way I see it everyone can stick with their own regardless of skin color , cause we are all the same human race.
    -Marcella


  490. I am a black woman who was married to a white (jewish) man. Some Jews are racist, but they seem to be more open towards interracial relationships than other whites are. I wonder why?

    I belong to a club composed of well-educated, professional black women and it seems that very few of them are interested in even dating a white man. Black women tend to be very loyal to their men.

    I agree with the posters here who said that the image of beauty in this country is still the blonde, blue-eyed white women. The farther you are from this image, the more unattractive you are considered. If you don’t believe me, look at Beyonce, Halle Berry, Rhianna, etc. In fact, the last time this country had a prominent, really dark-skinned female actress was in the seventies, with Cicely Tyson. Sad but true. That’s why I love the Sudanese model Alek Wek — she’s very dark and very beautiful!

    Lastly,I don’t care who people marry, but it seems that some black men AND black women date/pursue whites for the wrong reasons. My sister (who also married a white man) never dated any black people and once told me she wouldn’t let a black man touch her. She ended up marrying a demented white man who cheats on her and treats her like dirt. Pathetic.


  491. 513. Phillymiss

    It’s a pity most black men don’t return the loyalty.

    Your comment about Jewish men being more open to interracial marriages then other races is a lot of hogwash. It all depends on your upbringing and surroundings.


  492. correction other whites.


  493. The author of this article is “full of it”.

    Lack of Opportunity: Black women and white men work together on a daily basis in both the private and public sectors.

    Education: Black women have equal and more education than most white men.

    Attractiveness: White men who do date and marry white men are not commonly found with mulattos and light skin black women rather brown skin ones. In fact, after I cut my hair and went natural, white men overwhelmingly showed an interest unlike black men.

    Finally, I am currently dating a white professional male who is a physician.

    Stop posting stereotypes and lies.


  494. It seems I did not express myself well enough. I see those mainly as excuses, that the true reason is racism.

    Attractiveness: I agree that the white men who do date black women seem to go for ones who are medium brown with natural hair and not the light-skinned ones like you would expect. I even wrote a post about it:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/black-women-that-white-men-like/

    On the other hand, many white men say they feel no attraction for black women. I doubt they are lying, most of them. But comparing them to white men in Europe or even Brazil, it seems their racist upbringing has something to do with that.


  495. on Sat 15 Aug 2009 at 11:20:24 Gerald Bollinger

    As a white guy my experience is that black women have an attitude problem. I’ve not met a black women who isn’t domineering.


  496. on Sat 15 Aug 2009 at 17:29:17 alwaysright101

    the only guys who find black women to be “domineering” are either abusive guys who want submissive girls they can control OR just weak guys who avoid the black girls, because of their egos.


  497. The whole “black women have bad attitudes” thing has been overused (I know it has its roots in the self serving idea that black isn’t normal and women are supposed to be men’s quiet sidekicks).

    I’ve come to realize that what certain people call an atitude is just someone not taking their shit or going along with their plans so they demonize the person and equally close minded people will believe it and run with it (women seem to be especially prone to this kind of lableling, especially black women). I’ve seen this so much its actually disgusting,

    I think its used to be a judgemental and self important prick without looking like one, it has become quite a fashionable ego booster for many. Some know its a bunch of BS and reject it, some buy into it because it makes them seem less effed up.

    At the end of the day, this label we know as “race” has played a major role in the development and maintainence of America, a lot of people just can’t stand hearing it but its at the core of this country period. The devaluing and and degradation of black women was NEVER undone, hell it’s still happening, we get a little tokenism, sure, but even that has its cut off point. And some people magically expect it not to be a social issue.

    I could care less if white men want/don’t want black women, they’re just people with their own hang ups and concerns, however this topic is interesting as it speaks volumes about other things.


  498. Gerald Bollinger Says:

    Sat 15 Aug 2009 at 11:20:24
    As a white guy my experience is that black women have an attitude problem. I’ve not met a black women who isn’t domineering.

    It is these kinds of IDIOTIC, IRRATIONAL, RACIST, HATEFUL, ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that need to be DESTROYED in American culture and WHEREVER they exist.


  499. I personally think that black women should, steal back black men, who are in relationships with white women. If white women stuck to their own kind, instead of trying to take up with others races potential parners, then this Black women/White man discussion would not even exist.

    I think that white women, want to cause further divisions in the black race, it has nothing to with love. I mean if black men are not available, then who are we as black women supposed to date and marry?

    I will also point out that White men do NOT like Black women, they JUST don’t find us appealing enough and that is the truth and I don’t know why people just don’t admit this, because it is the plain TRUTH. If white men really liked black women, then the statistics would speak for themselves and this topic would be non existant.

    It is not fair! that white women are taking black men and this is where the real problem lies, not with white men as they prefer their own kind, I am prepared to fight back, if I see a black guy that like who is going out with a white women, I will try to steal him and I suggest other black women do the same.

    I am not a racist person, but it always seems that white people always want to take things away from others, to benefit themselves and that is their history, taking away from others.

    I mean, just look at a history book, nothing is really theirs it is all stolen or built on the back of BLOOD MONEY and that is WHY there are so many problems in society today, problems that will never be sorted out, because they are to busy taking SOMETHING ELSE which is surprise surprise is not theirs!!

    Instead of Black men/Black women getting involved in these silly mixed raced relationships, which mainly go nowhere and are based on false values such as money or sex, start dating and loving one another!!!!

    I don’t know why social events for Black men/Black women can’t be arranged to help black people to socialise better. Why can’t someone start up an arranged marriage system (both parties comply), to help black relationships.

    I sorry to have to say this but I feel that white people should stop taking from us, they have the whole world and yet they are still taking from us. BUTT OUT!!! and then this problem of dyfunctional black relationships will start to resolve itself.


  500. Since BW are INDEPENDENT, INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN BEINGS and DON’T BELONG to ANYONE, they can love, date, and marry ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE. There is NOTHING WRONG with this.

    The MAIN reason MOST men of ALL RACES claim to “NOT LIKE/BE ATTRACTED” to BW (especially in America) is because of the HISTORICALLY ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE that has been/continues to be promoted in American culture/American media.


  501. I argee that some black women are independant, success human beings, but I don’t see why black men are NOT attracted to their own race regardless of the historically anti-bw racist hate, that is promoted by both American and European powers. I mean am a black female, have been subjected to the same kind racist indoctrination and I would date and marry a black man, if he were suitable and we had lots in common. So I don’t think that argument is true.

    I can understand white men being influenced, but I just cannot understand why black men would be so influenced as well. I feel that black women should fight back and take back their men. Most races (white,hispanic,asian) men like their own WOMEN, so why are black men so different.

    This situation between black men/black women is getting beyond ridculous and is totally embarrassing. black men and black women should be going out together.

    Black women should just face facts, that white men do not like us and never will, if white men really respected us and liked us for girlfriends or wives, don’t you think this would be shown in statistics, but like I have said before that statistics speak for themselves and it shows that white males DON’T LIKE black women and never will.

    Is it not the white male that has been systematically promoting anti bw hate/racism, so why should black women associate with them?

    Also can anyone name me at least twenty
    (not one or two) high profile rich white men who have black girlfriends or wives.

    Black women and their families need to win their men back and tell white women to piss off and marry their own men, I also feel that black women need to to stop kidding themselves and selling themselves short when it comes to relationships.

    I mean yes, black women can date outside their race if they so wish, but are they truely valued or wanted and the answer 99% of the time is NO.


  502. In American society black men are held up as being more desirable than black women. So they are wanted more by white people as mates than black women.

    Dating and marrying white men will make up for part of that loss, but it will not make up for all or even most of it.

    Black women suffer from bad marketing due to racism. Most white women are not rushing out to marry black men, yet white people’s hang-ups about race and sex does favour black men while disfavouring black women.


  503. “In American society black men are held up as being more desirable than black women. So they are wanted more by white people as mates than black women.” (abagond)

    This is not just exclusive to the USA, it happens in the Europe as well.

    Black women should just IGNORE white men and try to make a success with the black men available.

    Also if black women suffer from bad marketing the world over, don’t you think we should take steps to change it, not because we want to attract white men, but to help ourselves and our families, this is what we should be doing, not chasing after these white people, who are partly responsible for this situation in the first place and who certainly HATE us.

    Most white women ARE taking the few black men available, this is bad, because then who are we as black women supposed to date and marry, as I have said before.

    So the situation stands as this, we have white men who have brought down bad stereotypes of black women and continue to do so because they own the media and then we have white women who continue to take the best black men available, despite them having plenty of white men available to them.

    I feel that both black women and black men should join together fight this, if we don’t then goodbye black people and culture for good and that is what white people want.


  504. its like this many black men i know date & marry white women because they can’t find a black women who’s passive & sumissive toward their partners , I’m Mixed Black, White & Native American & i hang out with only white girls & I’ve learned that theres a huge difference in how they treat black men Vs how black women treat them , Not saying black women aren’t good , but I use to act ghetto & loud & argue with my black mate like most black women , then I started realizing hell I’m single always , so I started to Hanging out again with Only White girl’s & started watching what they do to get black men I Notice White girls are more approachable , Aggressive in what she wants , & Get him & Summits to him on top she tells him how much she loves him , how much he means ect ect Basically making him feel like A King were A Black woman yeah she may but its not in the same way she argues more then embraces him . & just by setting & observing how white women are I started doing the same thing they’re doing & I actually have token 3 white chicks black men away because black men see it as different & New that A Ethnic chick can do what A White chick do & even better .

    its like this many black women leave that door open to many white women by been hard headed & not wanting to summit a little , plus white women are hearing & seen what Us Black women are doing to our men & is using it to get black men because they see us been ghetto , not wanting to do anything & basically putting him “Our own Black men ” Down , they’re watching what we’re doing & Many Black women get mad at me for saying this but How do you think White women know how we treat our own men The see it & hear it Not by just Our men telling them but From what they see in our Community they’re using Our Weakness as their Gold mind of taking our men & black women don’t seem to think or realize this they just think A Girl like me Is Ignorent Or Racist , But if you ever hangout with White girls & see how they do Black men You would see exactly what I mean.

    & Plus if Black wmen think If they start doing what White women are doing to Win back Black men You would be A Huge Threat to many White girls , I Know I am They become scared when i walk in the room .

    its like this if you can’t beat them , join them & beat them in their own game .


  505. NO RACE of HUMAN BEINGS is OBLIGATED to marry their SAME RACE members because RACE doesn’t make us each other’s PROPERTY.

    SELF HATING, DBR, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER BM need to deal with their issues THEMSELVES. BW aren’t RESPONSIBLE for THEIR ISSUES and we certainly DON’T NEED TO WASTE OUR TIME WAITING for THESE ANTI-BW BM to RESOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS.

    BW, like women of ANY RACE are FREE to LOVE, DATE, MARRY WHOEVER they want, REGARDLESS OF RACE.

    There are men OF EVERY RACE who DO WANT to LOVE, DATE, and MARRY BW, despite the MANY ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES being promoted everywhere.


  506. I’m seeing this “submit” word pop scarily often. It’s either I’m misunderstanding or some folks do not know the definition of the word. Submit = to surrender or yield to the will of a another person or superior force. You can show a man you love him without being a doormat….Personally I think any individual who needs another (be it friend/lover/whatever) to act weak so they can feel strong is an insecure nothing. If you treat someone the way you want to be treated and that’s not enough, then you need to tell em’ not to let the door smack em’ on the arse on the way out.

    @ Kanzas

    I can’t agree with you there. Many black men, like most other men hold on to the archaic belief that women should cater to them. Black men, like most other men are not immune to being programmed to like what popular culture shoves down their throat and a big part of that was that “white is best” and more importantly in this case, “black is bad bad bad”, you can call it “White media” if you want to but the fact remains that it reaches the world over and black people have gotten some pretty bad press. Yet its somehow expected that black women (who faced the same brutal crap that black men faced and had no one to pave her way) to just curtail, no, not even on a lover’s level. Grin and bare it just to keep him? Sorry, not that hard up for a mate. Not going to lie and say there aren’t black women with bad attitudes (tons of white ones too but we never hear about them), who knows what kind of life experiences they have, but I think a lot of people make it seem like its every other black woman because they need someone to be stomped into the mud to keep their shoes clean.

    Knowing you’re at the bottom of the social barrel influences the way you see yourself and the way you deal with others, whether its positive or negative (aware or unaware). Never compare white women’s experience with black women’s, society at large views us differently, men view us differently, white men view us differently, black men view us differently, the guy interviewing you for a job views us differently, there’s a reason why we approach some aspects of personal relationships differently. So this whole “be more like white women” idea is a crock of sh+t lol.


  507. Only 6% of black men marry white women & 2% of black women marry white men.’ Taking into consideration that the black male is “more desirable” neither seem to be that interested in whites. I am a black female & even though I find some non-black men attractive I never considered dating one and the reality is a lot of women I know of my ethnicity feel the same way. I am of a darker skin tone & I’ve had white men tell me I was attractive but, to be honest most of those were when I was in modeling.

    Another topic that is important that I want to discuss is even though it hurts me to admit black men are more likely to be in prison. 17% of black men have had prison experience compared to 7.7% of Hispanic and 2.6% of White. Let’s not forget to factor in that a lot of young black mean die at an early age due to violence, AIDS etc. We must not forget the fact that many of the men that go to prison have sex with men unprotected then come home & give HIV to their mates which is why we have the highest HIV percentage. Also we can’t forget that Out of that 62% of black families with children are headed by a single parent. Out of that 70% of African-Americans do NOT live below the poverty line. Out of that black men in America engage in polygamous relationships, 3 ½ times that of White or Hispanic.Out of that polygamy is more common among better educated black men who presumably have more income.

    I said this to say maybe if black men & black women were equal in availability the rates for interracial dating would be lower but, that’s not the case.


  508. Gen,
    I totally agree. Many people are not empathetic to Black women’s experience because they don’t have too. Interestingly, it is the black woman who must define her value because no one else has.Hence, we are peceived differently than white women, or other ethnic groups and places at the bottom of the totum pole. Gen, your socialogical break down is right on point. You are my hero.


  509. Frankly,
    I’ve come to the conclusion that Black Women and Black Men shouldn’t be together. Hell, we are too disfunctional. The Black Man has no power outside his home so he rules the nest like the royal King of Kenya; subgigating the black woman to survitude. Then the Black woman is reared to stay with a black man and work a full time job while cooking and cleaning, rearing and raising his childre. Then she is expected to allow him to make decisions for her. Interestingly, women who live that type of life die earlier.

    It seems Black Women are more like slaves than wives. Why deal with it. Dump them and take control of your life. Forget the Black Man and let white women deal with the heartache. Oh I forgot, Black Men typically treat white women better and have different expectations of them.

    A Black Man feels a Black Woman should be Happy to have him. But he is Happy to have a white woman and will break his back to keep her.

    That is total disrespect of the Black Woman. By continuing to deal with the disfunction she is a co-contributor to her own demise.


  510. Alec says,
    A Black Man feels a Black Woman should be Happy to have him. But he is Happy to have a white woman and will break his back to keep her.

    That is total disrespect of the Black Woman. By continuing to deal with the disfunction she is a co-contributor to her own demise.

    laromana says,
    Very well said, Alec. I couldn’t agree with you more for telling the TRUTH about the NEGATIVE DYNAMIC that is a major component of MOST BM/BW relationships.


  511. Casey said: “but like I have said before that statistics speak for themselves and it shows that white males DON’T LIKE black women and never will.”

    BW/WM marriages increased almost 149% between 2000 and 2006 (according to the Census). From 78,778 in 2000 to 117,000 in 2006; it is the fastest-growing category. There is expected to be a true explosion in numbers in the next Census. It will be interesting to see what comes out.

    Perhaps it’s because I’m pretty young but in my own age group (20-somethings) it’s a common pairing.


  512. Hey Alec, you made a very good point about some black men trying to rule with iron fists because the welcome mat is where their power stops. I’ve definitely seen this and I think it tends to happen with men who measure their masculinity in control and in what is usually referred to as a “white man’s world” I can see how a lot of men have this hang up.

    And whats funny is that I remember having a conversation a while back and saying that white supremacy societies render black men and women largely incompatible (even if we are even on each others radar) and I’m sure just like me, you got a lot of weird looks. No one likes feeling like they’re being phased out, so I get why some people don’t like “seeing” IRs (even though some are involved in one) because the math says that the people of tomorrow won’t look like you, more importantly, the people who will be in power tomorrow won’t look like you and that quite frankly, scares the daylights out of some folks. So many whites discourage it because it keeps wealth and power to them, some blacks try to “breed the black away” so they can get a piece, yet assign some other black person the duty to “carry on the race” and there are few of us on both sides of the spectrum looking on in disbelief because its just all so silly. I know “love” is colorblind but lets not kid ourselves into thinking self hate doesn’t lead many of us to mostly appreciate those who don’t look like us and thus choose them as mates. Whites can turn to any page in a fashion mag or flip to any channel and see white faces, white is so normal its not even white, a tradition of color based exclusion ensures that, so they are less inclined to widen their range of potential mates. Even more so with white men in particular, being with a non white woman will result in non white children, shifting the balance and thus signaling the end of white power and even though its not admitted, the proof is all around us that it matters A LOT.

    There is a reason so many white people traditionally like blonde, because its undeniably white, which apparently is the best kind of white. Until we as a species evolve enough to stop grading each based on skin and gender this will continue.


  513. on Sat 22 Aug 2009 at 01:31:22 Truth B. Told

    Frankly,
    I’ve come to the conclusion that Black Women and Black Men shouldn’t be together. Hell, we are too disfunctional.

    I am starting to come to the same conclusion.

    The Black Man has no power outside his home so he rules the nest like the royal King of Kenya; subgigating the black woman to survitude. Then the Black woman is reared to stay with a black man and work a full time job while cooking and cleaning, rearing and raising his childre. Then she is expected to allow him to make decisions for her. Interestingly, women who live that type of life die earlier.

    It seems Black Women are more like slaves than wives. Why deal with it. Dump them and take control of your life. Forget the Black Man and let white women deal with the heartache. Oh I forgot, Black Men typically treat white women better and have different expectations of them.

    I think the true problem is that many Black women want to be married, but they don’t want to be wives(also true of some women of other races.)

    There is a pressure on all women in society to not end up a spinster or to be the last among their girlfriends to get married. There is a pressure on men, but it is not as great or as early. People start to question women in their early 30’s if they are unmarried. Men probably get the same questions as they approach their late 30’s, early 40’s. And if the man has a visible social (and sex) life, the less questioning he will endure.

    So since many men feel less pressure to be married, they will only do so if they perceive the benefits of such to be greater than remaining single.

    Many women feeling the pressure to get married, do their best to put themselves in a position to be sought after for marriage.

    I am speaking about men and women in general, but if you add race in the mix, it is even more dramatic for Blacks since there are fewer available Black men then Black women. The pressure is even greater on Black women than it is on other women and it is lesser on Black men than it is on other men. The pressure is lesser on White women or Asian women because they have more of a male/female balance and they have more willing outsiders (Black Men for White women and White men for Asian Women)

    However getting married is one thing, being a wife is another. I think many Black women resent the pressure of getting married and they resent what reality has presented them, being at the marital mercy of Black men, who usually occupy the lowest rung of society. It is a double insult. First to have to be in the position where you need someone to desire you and then have the one you need to desire you in the lowest position. It is a triple insult when you consider that when some Black men achieve something of note, his options extend beyond her and sometimes eliminates her. It is a quadruple insult when she thinks about a non-Black man (mostly White) and throws herself upon his marital mercy but either finds herself not really interested in him (she inevitably finds out that they are not all equally powerful) or him not really interested in her (along with his history (and present) of abusing her and his disdain for her femininity.)

    So if you have a woman who feels the pressure to get married yet she does not want be a wife to a man she does not respect for being low on the totem pole and does not want to be a wife to other men who considers her low on the totem pole, where does she go?

    I think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don’t want to become a wife, then no sane, rational man will be looking to make a wife out of you. Other races of women who are at peace with their choices seem nicer in comparison and the cycle continues in their favor and against Black women.

    And thus we have threads like Why so few _______ men marry black women and not any threads about few men marrying other types of women. And many single Black women.


  514. “So if you have a woman who feels the pressure to get married yet she does not respect for being low on the totem pole and DOES NOT WANT TO BE A WIFE TO OTHER MEN who considers her low on the totem pole, where does she go?”

    laromana says,
    It is these kinds of GROUNDLESS, IRRATIONAL, IDIOTIC, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that need to be DISMISSED/DESTROYED before BW are treated with the RESPECT/DIGNITY (like NON-BW are treated) they DESERVE.

    BW are WOMEN FIRST who, like MOST HUMAN BEINGS, desire to be loved, pursued, and/or married QUALITY men who will treat them with honor/respect.


  515. Intresting how “the Author:” Truth B. Told suggests that being wife means being slave. Therefore, if a Black woman dosn’t want to be a slave to her husband then she is in the category of wanting marriage but not wanting to be a wife.

    The FACT is being WIFE doesn’t mean being a slave. The Wife should not do all the work and let the husband be happy. Many Black children grow up miserable because the only one happy in their home was the Father. Why, because everything catered to the Father/Husband at the expense of everyone else in the home. The cosmopolitan 20th century Black Womans will not allow that in her home. She expects to marry a Renasaince Man. If the Black Man lacks the sophistication, education and consideration then she won’t marry him. Frankly, I don’t have to justify my choices to anyone. Therefore, Black Men has little relevance to men as it pertains to relationships because I will not be one the obedient wives of the King of Kenya.


  516. on Sat 22 Aug 2009 at 16:36:02 Truth B. Told

    Laromana reply is typical of today’s Black woman. Even though I am basically saying the same thing she is saying (she herself often states White men and non-Black men as being anti-BW racists and haters and cowards – isn’t that them considering BW being on low on the totem pole?).

    However since I said, she must disagree with it, even though she has said it many times herself.


  517. on Sat 22 Aug 2009 at 16:49:10 Truth B. Told

    Intresting how “the Author:” Truth B. Told suggests that being wife means being slave.

    Where did I suggest that being a wife means being a slave?

    If a woman wants to do her own thing, good for her. Men who want to do their own thing stay single. So they will assume that a woman who wants to do her own thing will want the same and not pursue her.

    Being a good wife (or husband) means making sacrifices for the good of the couple. If too many black women see that as “slavery” then that should be added to the answers to the questions “why so few _______ marry Black women?” that Abagond asks.


  518. The WHOLE WORLD KNOWS that the “BC” exists mainly because of the MANY YEARS of SACRIFICES that BW have made and that their “REWARD” has been to have MANY ANTI-BW/HATER BM TRASH their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY for EVERYONE to see.

    OBVIOUSLY, BW ARE NOT OBLIGATED to WANT to MARRY these DUMB, USELESS, DBR, EXCUSES for MEN. BW DESERVE BETTER than that.

    It’s time THESE ANTI-BW/HATER BM start to do their part to SACRIFICE, SUPPORT, and DEFEND BW and the “BC” (REGARDLESS of the RACE of who they choose to date or marry) instead of CONTINUOUSLY SPREADING their ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES to EVERYONE.


  519. on Sat 22 Aug 2009 at 23:08:35 mynameismyname

    Truth Be Told,

    What does all of this “tandem pole” have to do with anything? Yes, black women are given the same “beauty status” as non-black women. But, if black men are so “low” then why do so many non-black women desire them and bear their children?

    Anti-black racism and the after effects of slavery are the two biggest culprits of this issue as Aba explored some time ago.

    Wow, 546 comments! Hot topic!


  520. on Sat 22 Aug 2009 at 23:12:48 mynameismyname

    Truth Be Told,

    What does all of this “tandem pole” mess have to do with anything? Yes, black women are NOT given the same “beauty status” as non-black women. But, if black men are so “low” then why do so many non-black women desire them and bear their children? But their female counterparts are leery of marrying them? Huh?

    Anti-black racism and the after effects of slavery are the two biggest culprits of this issue as Aba explored some time ago.

    Wow, 546 comments! Hot topic!


  521. Funny how ‘Truth B. Told’ said “Being a good wife (or husband) means making sacrifices for the good of the couple. If too many black women see that as “slavery” then that should be added to the answers to the questions “why so few _______ marry Black women?” that Abagond asks.”

    Touche’, the very reason black women need to run from those neanderthal black men with Jim Crow, share cropping mentality like Truth be Told has. Hell, he thinks we should make all the sacrifies and be slaves. If we follow “Truth Be Told’s advise we will be wearing burkas and walking 10 steps behind Men, satisfying there every need at the expense of ourselves. No, Slavery is not an option. Therefore No Thank you. Slavery is not marriage.


  522. casey i don’t think that all black women should need to stick by black men. if so many of them want white women why go running after them anyway? i hope to some day find a man that loves me for me. he might be a white guy. but i’de rather that than go running after some black guy that just isn’t interested enough anyway.

    there are other races of men that like black women.probably more so european than american white men.

    alek wek wasn’t found beautiful by many black men & is now with a white man who probably loves her & finds her beautiful. that man could have been black. but that should not be an issue.


  523. Marriage is not a master/slave relationship. It is a partnership. Both sides need to bend equally for the greater good. If one side always gets his or her way, then it is not going to be happy and it is not going to last. It is not a marriage worth having.

    A woman (or a man) who always wants her way is going to wind up alone in the end.


  524. I do have a post like this one about why so few BLACK MEN marry black women:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/2008/07/31/why-so-few-black-men-marry-black-women/


  525. I know this is an old post, but its wrong about #6:

    http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/

    Men are beggars, women are choosers


  526. why are black women with white men always seem to be happy but they frowning when they are with black men? do black women with black men feel that white men will take them to the promise land?


  527. Most Black women are not at all attracted to white men. Do a pole on how many Black women are interested in white men. Black women like to dance, and sexually they want to be compatible, and someone who will age well with them. Many have told me Black men have all the above checked, but white men don’t have one. Do your research folks.


  528. Steve:

    We understand your jealousy of a white man being with your black woman.

    Quit making assumptions for ‘all’ black women because you are just one stubborn voice that can’t be heard.


  529. That’s a beautiful picture at the top abagond.

    Great looking family and very beautiful kids.


  530. Azrazyel: Your getting me wrong, I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships. I’ve been with every woman in the rainbow, including white, so I’d have to be a hypocrite to have a problem with white men with black women. I’m also very secure, and most men who have problems with interracial relations are insecure. I’m just telling you the research I’ve done, most black women are not attracted enough to white men to have relationships with them. Go to a club and see how much play you get with a black woman as a white man. I have a beautiful black woman who happens to be a model, and that’s the only one I don’t want any man with. So I know the truth hurts, but hey. And your right, that is a great looking family above…


  531. Oh another thing:

    This thread reeks of desperation.

    A lot of white men see black women as coming off as desperate. They can’t find a good black man.

    No man wants to be an ‘option’. Therefore, a lot of white males see the desperation in black women as looking to ‘settle’.

    Most white men are worth more than settling. We want true love and not to be sought as an ‘option’.

    That should have been another one abagond.


  532. Again steve:

    I appreciate your comments.

    You cannot possibly speak for ‘all’ black women.

    Do I know these women you know?

    Do I care to know?

    And yes you are right. Most white men date and marry white women.

    I LOVE black women and the opportunity may soon enough present itself.

    I only need one. Not ‘all’ (your words) to be interested in me.

    Have a good day. (:


  533. One more thing:

    I have some research to do to see how many black women ACTUALLY love white men…..

    I don’t go to clubs. Black women who go to clubs are all ghetto.

    I am worth much more than that.

    LMFAO


  534. Nice conversation you have a good day too. I think all women are beautiful and no, I don’t speak for all black women. I appreciate when people aren’t afraid to explore other cultures.


  535. Thank you steve.

    I’m glad we can see eye to eye. lol


  536. To Azrazyel :

    We understand your jealousy of a white man being with your black woman.

    I see that you and Steve have come to some understanding but he is basically correct… most black women want to be with black men (and most white women want to be with white men but to a lesser degree than black women want to be with their own race..) They are probably the most “loyal” group in the US. I made that assertion earlier on this thread and Abagond disagreed with me until multiple comments from black women and the appearance of one study backed up my thoughts. Then he stated the other very popular thread on the same subject “Part II”.

    http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/

    For equal success with an African-American woman, a Hispanic man needs to earn an extra $184,000; a white man needs to earn an additional $220,000.

    For equal success with an Asian woman, an African-American needs no additional income; a white man needs $24,000 less than average; a Hispanic man needs $28,000 more than average.

    Of course those figures seem hyperbolic.. $220,000 more income..?

    That’s not to say of course you can’t find a black woman to date. The advantage of online dating sites is that you will know right off the bat if a black woman is not interested in dating white men.


  537. That’s some good points Uncle Milton.

    Yes black women are most loyal out of any race or gender. I don’t know if it’s because they are just too hard headed or I’ve also heard black women have it the hardest when dating IR than any other race or gender.

    A lot of black women also are put under pressure ‘NOT’ to date IR, and many thing they are the undesirables, especially from white men, hence the lesser IR couples between WM/BW.

    I joined interracialdatingcentral.com without knowing what to expect.

    I was very surprised at the numerous amounts of black women interested in us white men. I was actually at awe with it.

    I spoke to some online their, and some said they have friends who would be interested, but are afraid of retribution from others.

    A woman who was in the Air Force said the white men paid no attention to the black women on board and would always sleep with women overseas i.e. Asian, Filipina, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, Islander type before looking at a black woman.

    Discrimination still goes on today against black women by white men.

    In the end, yes white marries white, black marries black. But I think too much pressure on black women, and white men too, i.e. racial baggage, no opportunities, stigma, retribution etc. etc. is the halting point.


  538. One more big factor:

    Older generation parents would NEVER want to see a black woman dating/marrying a man with the same skin tone that beat, raped, enslaved, tortured, hanged and lynched them 150 years earlier.

    White men and black women I believe have it the hardest out of any IR couples.

    Just way too much for some.


  539. not a news worthy or blog worthy topic-


  540. Hello everyone, I have read some of the replies, well I am a black woman who is married to a very handsome white male,and believe me we get more funny looks from white people, mostly older white people, the younger people just smile and speak, every now and then a brother will give us a questionable look, I do not feel like I have betrayed my race at all, due to the fact that black men has been dating white women for many years and nothing is said about it, but I think the black men that I dislike the most are the ones that will not date a large black woman, but will date a nasty large white woman, but I still have much love for brothers, and I still think they are very sexy …some of them !


  541. “A woman who was in the Air Force said the white men paid no attention to the black women on board and would always sleep with women overseas i.e. Asian, Filipina, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, Islander type before looking at a black woman.”
    i don’t think ur supposed to sleep with other soldiers or airwomen in the military that could have partially been a reason, although prolly not…


  542. No, they’re getting it on in the military, same as the rest of us. You just can’t sleep with EVERYBODY (like someone working for you). The marriage rate of BW/WM is actually higher in the military than in the civilian population (as are all IR marriages).

    Anyhow, I just wanted to respond to this:
    “Black women who go to clubs are all ghetto.”
    Azrazyel, I know you didn’t say that. I go out dancing with my husband regularly and I’m so not… “ghetto”.


  543. This blog is so stupid. I am a Black woman, and I have always been hit on sexually by WHITE MEN. I hate the sterotype of the black woman. I grew up in a middle upper class family. I did not grow up in the ghetto. I grew up in the suburbs in a 5 bedroom house. I am college educated. I am getting married to a “white” man this fall. (Oct the 24th of 2009) His family and mines are very happy that we are getting married. He tells me how beautiful I am everyday. And he loves the way I look. When I look at him, I do not see a “white” man, I see my fiancee. This blog is racist. I have had 3 white men ask me to marry them before I met my fiancee. Either you are attractive or you are not. That is what it comes down to. If you are ugly, then you are ugly- it doesn’t matter what race you are. LOL


  544. rennelucky take it easy


  545. reneelucky7,
    I visited your myspace and noticed that you are in your 20’s and are from the Midwest. I am older than you and also from the Midwest and can assure you that you are definitely reaping the benefits of a VERY RECENT CHANGE where ther are more YOUNGER WM (20’s- early 30’s) who have a MORE POSITIVE/OPEN attitude towards SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW. This has NOT ALWAYS been the case for MOST BW in America who are older than you and even some that are your age.

    Your positive dating history with WM and your upcoming marriage are EXCEPTIONS to what is happening/has happened) to MOST BW in America. The FACT is that MOST American WM are STILL not willing to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY BW and it has NOTHING to do with whether these women are “ugly” or not. This is NOT some “STUPID” or “RACIST” blog topic. This is REALITY.

    Abagond’s blog is NOT “RACIST” or “STUPID” for allowing ALL of us to comment HONESTLY about our experiences with HISTORICALLY RACIST ANTI-BW attitudes that have existed/still exist in America when it comes to IRR’s between BW/WM(despite your EXCEPTIONAL, INDIVIDUAL experience).


  546. Thank you, Laromana.


  547. For myself they just don’t look that good. Occasionally I see an attractive black girl but in general they just aren’t my type. They probably think I’m homely too but that’s OK. Come on Abagond relax!


  548. You’re welcome, abagond. Keep up the great job you’re doing on this blog!


  549. wow thats weird im black and i don’t have a problem dating outside of my race.


  550. and that comment that says “black women are not attractive” or something like that LOL i think im prettyy no one else has ever complained :)


  551. black men like white woman no matter how fat or ugly (we call them trailer park white trash) These white woman act soooooooooooo ghetto its on real. As long as they are white its all good they are so proud to have a white woman on there are arm. You have to go to Battle Creek Michigan there is no place like it any where. that is all you see black men white woman the whole city, it is amazing to see. Sad but so true


  552. Just because SOME black men are like that does not mean ALL or even MOST black men are like that.


  553. I’m only going to say one thing and one thing only I honestly believe that it’s time for ALL of US to stop looking at color/race and start looking at the person as an individual!! Everyone has their own opinion of what they think about a person!! I don’t understand why GOD made us different races anyway but my opinion is I guess he wanted to give everyone a fair chance to choose for themselves!! We really need to put everything a side all the things we’ve been through etc and unite and be as ONE!! I pray everynite that this can someday happen!! It will be such a joyous occasion when it does!! That’s all I have to say!! Everyone please enjoy the rest of your day!!

    Much ♥ ♥ ♥


  554. I do not care what a white man think, OR his views about racial beauty, I love my black skin, it’s perfect for me. Is this blog a joke?


  555. I will always date black women but it is getting harder to find a good solid lady. I have had good success with black women from Africa or the islands but not with american black women. Not all white men have those thoughts about black women in fact i have always though that they are the most beaufitul women on this planet! I simply just want to find a solid black women to live my life with!


  556. I am a white man who believes that black women are the most beautiful ladies on this planet. It is hard to find a solid lady for dating due to those facts presented. I get disgusted because I want to spend my life with a black women to love and cherish!


  557. That was very nice of you to say that Wayne!! I wish more men thought like you no matter what race they are!! Like I said in my pervious post I just hope we can all United and be as one!! The stereotyping, racial classfications & Predujice really needs to stop!! I myself am sick of it!! We need to look past race and start looking at the person as an individual and judge them on that because not everyone thinks the same!! I am a black women who loves herself and has so much to offer! I understand how you feel. It’s hard to find a good solid men out here as well. I refuse to lower myself and my standards just to be with somebody. If you can’t take me as I am, then I guess you’ll end up with nothing at all!! ( I love you Mary for that)So Wayne don’t worry I’m sure your find your perfect girl!! Keep your head up!! Enjoy the rest of your night ladies & Gents!!


  558. (Formerly Azrazyel)

    Thank you for your words of encouragement!


  559. No Problem Maximus!! I just want us to be able to date, marry & have a relationship with whomever we choose to, without people looking a staring like it’s wrong!! Me personally I don’t get a f*$k who dates who!! If you like/love that person that’s all that matters! End of discussion!! Some people are so colorblind!! We don’t live in black & white!! The world is made up of many different colors and that’s how we need to see it!! I think if you haven’t they you should listen to a song by Emily King (who is by the way bi-racial) called “Colorblind”! It’s a real positive song and it makes a lot of sense!!


  560. I love your attitude Charlette!

    So many of us look at color which causes more wrong than good.

    It’s not a color issue, it’s a love issue. I see no color, I wish the emphasis of race would be wiped out and let people love each other as a human being.

    Too many people looking for the bad in every race, when we should be looking for love in every race.

    If only more people could see your positive outlook.

    Once again, Thank You!!!

    Take care.


  561. Thats a bunch of crap about
    “when a goodlooking black woman walks down the street, white men do not even bat an eyelash” lol

    yeahhh right!!!

    sure!!! lol

    Well I have definitely seen them looking, and sometimes even catcalling…
    not to mention, the further down south you live the worse that stuff gets!
    They stare, sometimes make the kissing noises and some call out “hey sweet thang”
    I swear they do that shit lol and its usually the more redneck ones doing it!
    My mom grew up in the 60s and she said they were doing the same things back then too lol

    I hate when ppl make up garbage about how this and that doesn’t happen or never happened… when it most certainly does!!!!!


  562. More than likely, it’s just a matter of a combination of availability and opportunity. White men are much more likely to date black women if they’re given the chance. In a big city like New York, where whites and blacks mix all the time (especially at work where many relationships start anyway), interracial dating happens all the time. If you put a man and woman together for enough time, there will probably be an attraction. And if the guy isn’t afraid, he’ll man up and ask that woman out, black or blue. I dated my first white man several years ago because he was the only one brave enough to ask me out (brave because most white men automatically think they’ll be rejected if they approach a black woman). We’re now married. So ask that sista out on a date if you want to. It’ll be the best thing that ever happened to you – LOL!


  563. I agree with Jessie!! You never know that black woman maybe feeling the same way!! Shoot I would love it if a nice looking, well dressed white man approached me and asked me out!! I would say YES in a heartbeat!! I mean if you think about it the only difference between us is our skin color!! We both have two eyes, legs, arms, feet, ears, hand, a mouth, a heart etc!! The same blood that runs through his veins runs through mines!! So to my white men out here take that chance!! You never know that beautiful black woman could end up being your future wife!! ;-)


  564. this would not happen in cuba and puerto rico where white and black mixed. it was naturally!!!! My grandmother is cuban black and my grandad is puerto rican white. its a different life there. This is crazy here in the usa . well it tells alot. I love my mix and my family. They are just scared and jealous to be in our world. Thats ok they can stay away and go to another world. LOL
    WOMEN OF COLOR WILL ALWAYS BE BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  565. Can anyone tell me how can you upload a pic?!


  566. To change your avatar you just need an email address and upload your picture here:

    http://gravatar.org/

    To upload pictures to this blog you need to email them to me and I can upload them.

    To link to a picture somewhere else on the Web, just paste the link in and put it on its own line (like I did above) or, at least, make sure there is a space before and after it.


  567. I agree with all six of the items given, and I have a hard time seeing how the 2.2 and 1.9 rate for whites proves we are more hateful as a race. Agabond goofed up for not considering that we are a much larger portion of the American population.
    Considering that, even if we dated out exclusively, and take all non-whites as dates, our IR rates would still be much lower. Non-white’s IR rates would all be 100%, and ours would only amount to roughly whatever percentage of the American population minorities compose. I’d imagine, even then, people like Agabond would complain because whites aren’t dating out as much and choose whatever BS reason he/she felt was right: must be because they’re hateful!


  568. Oh on a side note, I should elaborate that I do not *personally* agree with all six of the items listed, but I do think that they apply to a lot of white men. I do not find all black women, or even most black women, ugly, personally. My close family and I have had the discussion before on whether they’d be OK with me having a black gal and on the surface at least they were all OK and most seemed sincerely OK. This was relevant because I’ve dated a gal from Nigeria in the past.

    The point about black women not having much exposure to white men is rather true. They don’t hang in the same flocks at very high rates, and they certainly don’t do university or even professional occupations at the same rates.

    While I’ll probably end up marrying a white woman, I would not be opposed to marrying a black or Asian woman. So long as she’s styling, smart, and gorgeous I’m set! It’s just, where I am, there are white women in droves who might qualify on those counts, and not too many other women. Of course, I won’t find any woman sitting on here!


  569. A fair point about the numbers, but not about the hate. It seems like you did not read all the way to the end of the post, that you just jumped to conclusions.


  570. Justin:

    You should read my comment policy. There is a link to it at the top of each page. I have deleted two of your comments because you were unable to make your point without calling people names.


  571. It’s not about whether MOST American WM/NON-BM find BW attractive and might consider dating and/or marrying them, it’s the difference in the way MOST American WM/NON-BM view SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW in COMPARISON to how the view SERIOUSLY DAITNG and/or MARRYING NON-BW.

    NON-BW aren’t EXPECTED to have a high level of cultural interaction w/ WM/NON-BM, be educated, or NOT be from a ghetto/NOT be “ghetto” BEFORE they’re ACCEPTABLE for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE to MOST American WM/NON-BM.

    It’s clear that MOST American WM/NON-BM APPLY a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT (RACIST ANTI-BW)STANDARD when it comes to being attracted to, dating, and/or considering marrying BW than they do to NON-BW.


  572. GET OVER IT! Just because that one guy didn’t want to date you, you blame it on race. Mabye you’re just ugly?


  573. @ retarded I think that was pretty harsh!! Calling someone ugly is not the way to get through things!! It only adds more fuel to the fire!! Please choose your words wisely!! It doesn’t matter what anyone looks like on the outside your face, hair etc doesn’t make a person, it’s your attitude that counts!!


  574. retarded Says:

    GET OVER IT! Just because that one guy didn’t want to date you, you blame it on race. Mabye you’re just ugly?

    laromana says,
    I’ve known many WW/NON-BW who describe themselves as ugly (or are considered ugly by many and don’t have much to offer) who can STILL find men who will SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them.

    On the other hand, I have known many BW who are considered attractive (and have other desirable qualities-intelligence, great personalities, caring, loyal, successful,etc.) who can’t find men (of ANY race) who will SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY them SOLELY because they’re BLACK.

    This is the MAIN POINT of abagond’s post, not whether some RANDOM BW is being rejected by WM/NON-BM because she’s “ugly”.


  575. “A white man married canadian serial killer Karla Homolka AFTER she was released from jail for rape, torture and murder.
    AND they have a child together, she is free now living in Canada.”

    Karla Homolka is now living in the West Indies. It has been claimed that it’s St. Lucia she moved to with the father of her child. I think they may even ave since married. She changed her name to Leanne Teale.


  576. Right: if it were that simple there would be no post.


  577. Picking up on the Karla Homolka example: whites with a prison record are more likely to get a job interview than blacks without one.


  578. @abagond yea but it shouldn’t be like that!! Everyone deserves a fair chance!! smh I know that life can be unfair but geeshh Changes will never be taken unless there given!!!!


  579. I am a white male married to a black woman.

    And I dont really see color, except that I feel most black women..have way better skin! LOL I know not always true..but my wife has awesome soft sweet smelling skin!

    She’s my second wife and would not have met her without http://www.match.com

    I never found black women hard to get along with.. and in fact when working in the field (outdoors) being in different places all the time… Black women were the EASIEST to get a smile from! White, Spanish girls tend to be a little more less friendly… and I’m white! oriental women have been hit and miss with me…never dated one probably becouse I never had the chance..I had a few almosts on match.com, but my wife and I hit it off right on the first day we met!

    And I was going through my divorce with my first wife when we started to date. Imagine the difficulty there. LOL

    People who look to date only their race could be missing out on their perfect match… and race is a bad word for me.

    We are all from the same planet! Geeze, I think all the different religions cause most of the problems! And ignorance.

    Now go out there and find your match! And don’t put all of this silly crap on top of it!


  580. Was that an ad?


  581. No not an ad…but now after I read it again…maybe i missed my calling.
    :)


  582. My family is full of black women either married to or having children by white men. Our ancestors had children by slave masters and it seems to have continued through successive generations. During slavery many African females bore children to slave masters, and many admittedly racist white men have gone to the “back side” of towns to get black women for sexual trysts. Strom Thurmond had a black child by the family housekeeper! The hypocrisy of pretending to be disinterested in black women, while seeking them out for “secret sex” has been a large and ignored part of our American heritage.


  583. adnora writes:”Our ancestors had children by slave masters and it seems to have continued through successive generations.”

    what?!? so if a white man and and a black women fall in love and have childen ,you consider that to be the same as a slave master raping a women and her bearing the child?!? what? there is something wrong with your thinming patterns. yes, there are some racist bigot white guys out there that see black women as sex toys, but those same men see all women as sex toys. im not justifiying it, just pointing out. also, is it so inconseivable in your mind that a white person and a black person could love one anther?!? if so, i feel sorry for you.


  584. @ white guy

    Yea I agree with you!! I saw that post but wasn’t going to say anything. I would hope that most white men or men in general aren’t still carrying/walking around with that slave mentality. I mean it’s 2010 it’s time to leave that ish in the past and think for the future. That is the only way it’s going to end!!


  585. thank you, Charlette.

    it seems some people are bigots themselves[Adnora] and cant realize love has no color or creed. people like this are holding backthe progress of the modern world.


  586. @white male

    No prob!! Just tired of this whole race thing!! It is seriously/literally making me nauseous!! LOL As long as you love each other that is the only thing that matters!! ;-)


  587. Candace Says:

    Sat 4 Apr 2009 at 04:11:36
    I’m Bi-racial My Mother is White & Father is Black , I grew up in A Dominetly White Community & hung around mostly White Girl’s due to the treatment I suffered by the hands of Black sisters , I tried to hangout & be cool w/ Black Females but I never get Treated right , & not to be Racist but Most of the Black girl’s I know of are Loud & Ghetto & I’m not use to that .

    I also Notice A huge Difference in how I’m waited on when I’m with A group of Mostly Only White girl’s its like You’re treated A little Different too .

    Black men & White Women .. growing up My Black Father Claimed that the Reason why? He only Dated White Women is because Black Women Were too Loud & Gold-diggers & ect ect ..

    My Mother who’s white Do not believe All Black Women are What these Stereotypes are & She thinks Its stupid & with her having 2 Bi-racial Mixed Daughters to her Its Ignorance upon Black men to say these things about their own Women & I grew up with my Mother telling me That I should Embrace Both Black African Culture & Irish/Italian Cultures do not Be Ashamed of My Mixed Cultures & She tried her Best in making us Hang around Black people & kids who were Black or Mixed Black cultures .

    I however Growing up never Got Treated fairly So I still Hangout with White Girl’s & talk & Act White because thats what I’m use to , I However Do Date only Black men & I get Hell for it From Black Female’s .

    So In away I feel just like Most White girl’s when Dealing with Black Female’s & dating Black Men .

    I know in High School Me & My White Friend both date Black Football players who star Star Quarterbacks very Dark Black Handsome Guy’s & we both Got hell for Dating These Black guys because Black girl’s Got Mad & Jealous .

    So From my stand point of View & viewing it From A Bi-racial side I kinda Feel that Black Women are Jealous of Bi-racial & White girl’s who Date Black guys.

    I think BLack women are Scared that Black men have Lost their Lust for them & In Away I think Most Black men Have .

    I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .

    @Candace

    I’m sorry that you got treated this way by black females, but that stereotype of us all being loud, ghetto,golddiggers etc is so untrue!! I am a black female who is very well educated & doesn’t ask anybody for anything!! It really really hurts my feelings when I hear the things that you say!! i.e. bi-racial and white females are not the only ones who get treated unrudely by black females, black females also get treated unfairly by other black females!! I can literally write a book on how bad I got treated by other black females!! I never had too many black girlfriends and if I did they were just like me!! I was always the type of girl who wanted to do good, who went to school everyday and got good grades and because of this I got shit for it!! While they were all hanging out in the bathrooms, smoking and cutting class, I was busting my butt in the classroom pulling straight A’s on the regular!!I got called stuck up, weirdo & nerd because of the way I was!! I only had a handful of friends and they were hispanic, white & one asian girl!! So you see it’s not just ya’ll who get treated this way!! On the flip-side I could care less who anyone dates. If you love each other that’s all that matters!! We don’t see in black & white but rather in color!! And trust me no one is jealous of white or bi-racial females. Black women are beautiful and we come in all different colors, shades and sizes!! I love my black men and I will continue to do so!! but at the same time I will not discriminate either!! If a man of a different race approaches me and we click then it’s all good!! Black men need to start searching and looking for black women who have themselves together instead of the first one who is willing to open up their legs!! That’s what’s the problem. Our men are settling for anything!! They need to open up their eyes and see that there are good black women out here instead of giving up so easily!!


  588. eeesh. i never knew these “problems” even existed in the U.S. until i came online…you’re ALWAYS analyzing and overanalyzing every…little…thing.


  589. Candace,
    I’m sorry that you weren’t treated well by CERTAIN BG’S when you were growing up but I think it’s wrong to use that as an excuse to believe the RACIST ANTI-BW LIE that ALL BW are “loud, ghetto, golddiggers.” The FACT is that there are GOOD and BAD women in EVERY racial group. Singling out ALL BW as “loud,ghetto,golddiggers” (or some other ANTI-BW LIE/MYTH/STEREOTYPE)is RACIST.

    Although MANY BM DEGRADE/DISRESPECT/DEMEAN ALL BW by spreading RACIST ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES to JUSTIFY ONLY dating and/or marrying NON-BW, your Mother was right to teach you NOT to buy into this RACIST ANTI-BW mindset.

    It is sad to see that MANY DBR BM are the ONLY men on the planet who think it’s right to DEGRADE/DISRESPECT/DEMEAN BW (the women who most resemble their MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, SISTERS, etc.). This is especially OUTRAGEOUS when you stop to consider that the ONLY reason BM even exist is because a BW CHOSE to give birth to them and (in MOST cases) made MAJOR SACRAFICES to raise them. The UNGRATEFUL, SELF HATING, ANTI-BW attitudes/actions of MANY DBR BM may help to explain the anger that you see SOME BW displaying towards them.

    You also need to know that historically American society has ALWAYS promoted ANTI-BW RACISM/ HATE in order to excuse many UNSPEAKABLE CRIMES (rape, gang rape, child sex abuse, murder, etc.) against BW.

    In my youth I was mistreated by BG’s and WG’s but I also had friends who were BG’s and WG’s. The FACT is that there are ill behaved


  590. Candace said:

    I kinda feel that Most Black women hate on Us White girl’s because Black men seem to treat us Better .

    I thought you were “Bi-racial”?? give me a break you are a troll starting some mess up in here fly girl by girl


  591. annony Says:

    Mon 30 Nov 2009 at 15:51:14
    eeesh. i never knew these “problems” even existed in the U.S. until i came online…you’re ALWAYS analyzing and overanalyzing every…little…thing.

    @annony

    You have a point we are very analytical here in the US but that’s just the way it is!! If the US wasn’t so damn racist we wouldn’t have that problem but we do!! smh That’s just the way it is!!


  592. There a many types of men that like black women, especially dominant black woman. Hence, many espouse that trait is the very thing that turns black men and others off. However, there are men out there who appreciate assertiveness, and desire female led relationships. It’s not very mainstream but there is a growing female led relationship community. Most of men that are seeking these types of relationships are not black. I’ve just recently started a blog http://smoothfemdom.blogspot.com
    . I’ve gotten some really interesting emails; all from european men. So maybe if black women tapped into the mainstream, and off the beaten path they may find what they seek. Just a thought.

    Best,
    BCR from


  593. BCR Says:

    Tue 1 Dec 2009 at 16:50:20
    There a many types of men that like black women, especially dominant black woman. Hence, many espouse that trait is the very thing that turns black men and others off. However, there are men out there who appreciate assertiveness, and desire female led relationships. It’s not very mainstream but there is a growing female led relationship community. Most of men that are seeking these types of relationships are not black. I’ve just recently started a blog http://smoothfemdom.blogspot.com
    . I’ve gotten some really interesting emails; all from european men. So maybe if black women tapped into the mainstream, and off the beaten path they may find what they seek. Just a thought.

    Best,
    BCR from

    @BCR very interesting blog!!


  594. I am only into one race… “HUMAN RACE”

    Get over this stuff already and move on to 2010 and beyond people!

    Captain Kirk had the right idea… White, Black, Yellow, GREEN, PURPLE, Blue…its all good! He’s my hero LOL


  595. @Stan

    Thanks Love!! I couldn’t agree anymore!! Happy Holidays as well!! :-)


  596. I find it very interesting and telling that when asked why they don’t date Black women, White men usually say it’s because there aren’t many Black women where they live and work or just not in their enviornment. Meanwhile, White men have no problem finding excuses to get to Asia and Latin America to find women. GO WHERE THE BLACK WOMEN ARE! Before I moved back into a mainly Black community I lived in a mostly White and mixed areas. Still very few BW/WM relationships. Most of the Black women living in those area’s tend to be open to IR. I was one of them but was virtually ignored, even when I flirted. Perhaps they are just not that into us? For whatever reason. As a Black woman I can’t go outside my race and gender to feel and think what others are thinking of me. I’m sensitive and can usually tell what people are thinking of me but I will not do men’s thinking for them. I don’t want to, I shouldn’t have to. My personallity is best matched with the type of man who is direct and forthcoming.


  597. marnie2010 says,
    I find it very interesting and telling that when asked why they don’t date Black women, White men usually say it’s because there aren’t many Black women where they live and work or just not in their enviornment. Meanwhile, White men have no problem finding excuses to get to Asia and Latin America to find women. GO WHERE THE BLACK WOMEN ARE!

    laromana says,
    marnie 2010,
    Thanks for sharing your excellent insights. My experience with being ignored by WM/NON-BM in a mostly White/mixed area has been/is exactly like yours (being virtually ignored for relationships by the WM/NON-BM in the area)and I was ALWAYS open to IRR’s.

    Like you, I feel that the WM/NON-WM who are TRULY interested in IRR’S with BW should be DIRECT in expressing their interest (LIKE THEY ARE WITH NON-BW) instead of expecting BW to do their thinking for them.


  598. To the girl who said I’m starting mess up in here & that she thought I was Bi-racial .

    When I say White girls like Us I do mean Both Bi-racial girls who look white & White girl’s & it is true if your lighter then most Black women or you look white you do get hell from most black women especially if you look nearly White to them they will give you hell for Dating A Black Man .

    ask any White girl Or Bi-racial Girl who looks nearly White & they’ll tell they do get Hell from mostly black female’s for dating black men & i have gotten into fights over my black boyfriends due to black women saying why don’t i date my own , i’m like i’m half black what is my own ………..lol


  599. I’m a Black woman, and everytime I’ve thought about me sleeping with or marrying a white man,I get nauseous. In spite of the fact that there’s a perceived “male shortage” there are tons of BW who are just as disinterested in WM then they are in us(lol)and would prefer and are much happier to stay single than to marry a wm or accept an unqualified black man.


  600. There are a large number of Black women who will only marry Black men. Black women often have higher levels of education than Black men but are willing to marry down in order to stay within the fold. The bottom line is that people in an ideal state should marry whoever they please. I married a Black Woman. I am Jewish (ethnically speaking) We both had no apprehension whatsoever about marrying one another since we share both education and attraction. We have a beautiful daughter who may be perceived by some (both white and Black) as “Black” but will hopefully rise above the prison of lingering segregation.


  601. As a freak-in-the-face, I (white male 34) would say that one of the worst things a person could ask for is living in a world as totally different than the rest. These things are considered carefully by those future parents who are mindful and compassionate. I disagree strongly that racism is the culprit. It is the concept of fear of raising a child that does not resemble them or their peers closely. The “like father like son” is very much alive and well, and I have no problems with it. So, dear author, while you are playing “look at me”, you should be thinking a little deeper. I personally find most women to be unattractive and immature. Here in WI, it’s tough to get around them…impossible to get around non-whites..even for many “normal-looking” guys. I hate aggressive women, naturally, and my perceptions of black women have them being more than that. The few black women I’ve seen in real life have acted totally insane. I have no reason in the world to pursue black women as I’ve never had anything to do with them. Come to think of it, there’s never been good reason to pursue any woman in general…sounds like way too much work and then some. Tell me, OP, are you hostile to freaks-in-the-face while you are not racist? Lie to me.


  602. Singling out BW to GENERALIZE NEGATIVE TRAITS to them is ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE, pure and simple.

    Unfortunately, MOST American WM (like G. above) have HISTORICALLY chosen to INVENT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES in order to justify VIOLATING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW through their actions/attitudes. ANY INTELLIGENT/RATIONAL human being knows that there are women with good and bad characters IN EVERY RACE.

    It’s PATHETIC to see that nearly a decade into the 21st century there is STILL so much ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in the minds of MANY American WM/American society.


  603. Kathy is just as much a part of the problem regarding interracial interaction as the self titled, Genius.

    Getting “nauseous” over the very thought of being with a “white man” smacks of racism.

    Much like the tone emanating from white supremacists in the United States and Germany of old (google the Nuremberg Laws). This country is diseased by its long tawdry history of race.

    We would be foolish to think we are living in a post-racial world with the election of President Obama.

    I think Black women are more often than not, very beautiful. I feel a stronger physical attraction to Black women over most white women. In the case of a relationship however, there is much more than beauty at stake. Any relationship must have some kind of common denominator. This is the hardest part for all people seeking a long term relationship.


  604. Shai says,
    Kathy is just as much a part of the problem regarding interracial interaction as the self titled, Genius.

    Getting “nauseous” over the very thought of being with a “white man” smacks of racism.

    I think Black women are more often than not, very beautiful. I feel a stronger physical attraction to Black women over most white women. In the case of a relationship however, there is much more than beauty at stake. Any relationship must have some kind of common denominator. This is the hardest part for all people seeking a long term relationship.

    laromana says,
    Although I agree with your above statement, I don’t agree with the notion that BW, by virtue of being Black, are somehow “more difficult” than NON-BW to find common ground on which to build relationships.

    ALL relationships (REGARDLESS of the RACE or ethnicity of the people involved) require hard work to be successful.


  605. I agree with laromana response to my recent comment.
    There are complications to be found in a relationship with any individual. This would explain a number of phenomena.
    One the high divorce rate in America as well as the popularity of online matchmaker services. This stands with disregard to heterogamous or monogamous marriages

    People may select to segregate themselves from romance with people from other racial and ethnic groups. But this is their loss as well as ours.

    I would say that religion is sometimes a legitimate factor in that it reflects a life style that could conceivably impact the raising of children. I do not subscribe to any Western religion (I am a Pantheist) and would not want my children brought up otherwise. I expect a parallel response from a devout individual regarding their raising of children within a faith.

    That said, I see the mixing of cultural, national and racial groups a very healthy development from the perspective of overcoming longstanding fears and yes, creating healthier offspring.

    The bottom line however is the love and interaction the couple shares for one another


  606. I have dated many Black Women during my years of being single. I find that the type of Black Woman that I like are the ones who don’t have the Black Woman attitude.


  607. What in the world is a ‘black woman attitude’??


  608. Maybe you have the White man attitude. Ever think about that? We’re going by your logic here of course..


  609. White men are racist: They do not want their sons and daughters to be black.

    If this is, indeed, true, then… Well, there’s nothing I can say about this subject. It’s beyond disgusting.

    However, I wonder… Is is the same with white women/black men relationships? Do white women marry black men more often? If yes, does that mean white women want their children to be black (or, at least, don’t care if they’re white or not). This imply that white women are less racist than white men… Something I am not so sure about.


  610. Of course racism plays a pivotal role regarding relationships in the United States. But the frequency or lack of white men and black women marrying is premised on educational background, socio- economic issues and location. Chicago has a reputation for being socially segregated. Portland and Seattle is known as a more open society.
    The South is the South.


  611. I would not get too in love with “educational background, socio- economic issues”: there is a huge oversupply of single black women with university degrees.


  612. Mira

    That is a good question. Are white men more or less concerned with the color of their children in comparison with white women? Sometimes I think that women in general are just more attached to their children after carrying them for nine months etc.I mean men( not just white men) are more likely to abandon their children. But are white men more likely to be racist against their own children.? Maybe it depends on the individual. What do other people think?


  613. By the way, that is a beautiful photo of an interacial family. Beautiful family.


  614. I think white American men are way more racist against their black children.

    First, they made up the One Drop Rule which meant that their very own children became slaves!!!! In what other country did men let their children become slaves when they had the power to prevent it? I would be interested to know that because I do not know of any. Men have seen their children become slaves in other countries, but it was always against their will.

    Second, that may all be Ancient History but I doubt it for two reasons:

    1. Even for white people whose families never owned slaves, even those whose families came to America long after the slaves were freed, they still have many of the views of black people that slave owners did. They get it from the white society that those men created.

    2. While I see white women with black children every now and then I cannot remember seeing a white man alone with black children who are presumably his. And this is in supposedly liberal New York where you see thousands of people! Maybe I hang out in the wrong parts of the city or something.


  615. By the way, that picture at the top of the post – of a white man with his black wife and black children – was hard to find.


  616. You are not wrong Abagond. I go to Barnard and I really don’t see it either. It just seems like black women in particular are at the bottom rung for ALL men. It’s insulting.

    From my own observations here is the rank:
    White Women
    Asian Women
    Latinas [acceptable/PC looking]
    Black Women [acceptable/PC looking]

    I worry about this as I get older about how I will be approached– or not as a result.

    While I think there is beauty in women of all races, my male counterparts do not seem to think so [go figure]. Its almost like being in Grade school.. like we have cooties or something. If a man was serious about a women, they would talk to them, period. As it turns out they’re just not that into us.


  617. About pictures: Now that you mentioned it, it is hard to find some featuring white man and his black wife and children (unless he’s a celebrity). I do remember only one, but I am almost sure father wasn’t an American (nor was mother).


  618. That’s because white men think they are water-walking demi-gods and it would be beneath them to be seen with a black woman and to have black children with a black woman.

    But if they do marry a black woman and have children with her (as some of them do)- why would they refuse to post family photos? Why is it so hard to find pictures?


  619. there are far too many generalizations circulating in this thread. so while, white people initiated the racist equation, black people have picked up the gauntlet and have furthered the white separatist message in reverse. How many black mothers fear their children may marry “out” which means a “rejection” of being black?

    Those open to serious relationships from both the wm/ bw equation, respectively, are rare.

    That said, there are plenty of interracial groups online out there which promote relationships between black women and white men. I do not have details as to the ratio of success.
    i met my wife online. She is black. It worked for us.
    we have a kid too and want another. i post pictures of my daughter all the time. she is beautiful .


  620. @shai

    Good for you Shai!! ♥ Many blessings to you & your family!! :-)


  621. “First, they made up the One Drop Rule which meant that their very own children became slaves!!!! In what other country did men let their children become slaves when they had the power to prevent it?”

    I gotta say that one always amazed me. Not just did they make them slaves the made them their own slaves often enough. that’s pretty barbaric. The one thing that always bothered me though was the fact that white men in slavery who fathered baby girls by black women would allow their own daughters to be sold on the sex market to other white men? How can any man call himself a man and allow that to happen to his own flesh and blood when he has the power to stop it. that’s what always struck me as astounding and not in a good way.


  622. Even for white people whose families never owned slaves, even those whose families came to America long after the slaves were freed, they still have many of the views of black people that slave owners did. They get it from the white society that those men created.

    Abagond, this is an oversimplification common among anti-racist activists who really haven’t thought about the history of white american racisms – yes, -isms. Plural.

    The typical anti-racist view is that all racism is the same in america. While all racisms do indeed communicate and influence each other, they are not the same and their effects on black people are not the same.

    So when you say “white immigrants got their views from slave owners”, your making an ahistoric gloss which, in my view, doesn’t help us to disentangle racism.

    I can think of at least two mega-trends in white racism, off hand: segregationism and assimilationism. Both the north and the south had distinct variants of these, so that makes at least four traditions white people draw from when informing themselves about race.

    As a white boy who grew up in German colonies in the north, I can tell you that the racism I learned as a kid was DEFINITELY not of the slave-holder variety. It is the northern Lutheran immigrant variety. It does not presume that blacks are innately inferior, rather, it presumes that the races are radically equal as humans and it takes “our” German Lutheran cultural presuppositions as the defining line of what is “human”. This is more properly ethnocentrism than racism, so far.

    Where it becomes racism is when this attitude is inserted in the general American political complex of race.

    What happens then is that you get this view that: “Hell, my great-greats came over from the fatherland without a pot to piss in and look at what we have now. Blacks have been here longer than we have. What the hell is wrong with them?”

    This is the type of white who voted en masse for Obama and it seems to me that many black people have a difficult time understanding what he is about.

    He is racist, yes, and certainly some part of his archive of racist imagery comes from the Old South, yes, but what REALLY motivates his racism is his belief that blacks have been given far more than his ancestors and yet have done far less with it because they are still not acting like “normal” people.


  623. @peanut:

    It’s awful what these so-called “men” did reducing their offspring as mere goods to be sold. Heartless, I say. It leaves you shaking your head.


  624. That was insightful Thaddeus, that is the kind of dialoque from whites that helps me understand exactly where some of the racism stems from.
    Usually we get the ‘I dont care if you’re blue, green yellow or pink’ or the more offensive ‘blacks are ghetto’ variety of white spiel. Which hardly explains nor dispels any complexities surrounding racism on their part.


  625. while we speak of past and current racism ….and the oft stated belief that white men are simply not interested in black women there are plenty of sites that promote the opposite:

    http://www.interracialdatingcentral.com/blog/why-white-men-love-the-black-woman.htm

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_10_102/ai_91088599/


  626. Well, actually MerriMay, I’m only a little white… ;)


  627. But seriously, growing up in German Wisconsin, my mom threatened to wash my mouth out with soap if she ever heard the “n-word” come out of it. My Grandma voted for Roosevelt ’til the day she died and, if she were alive to see Obama today, she’d classify him as the second coming of FDR. She had a “Heaven is a mixed neighborhood” poster on her wall since the 1960s utnil the day she died.

    But all these very dear and sincere people have very clear-cut ideas about what’s right and what’s wrong.

    They love my wife, for example, because as a black woman with PhD and a classical education whose mom’s a history teacher and who’s more into ballet, classical music and German cuisine than me, Ana epitomizes the belief that anyone can in fact be essentially a German Lutheran. And that’s what they see in Obama as well. He’s a good boy (and they don’t mean that in the southern racist sense: they mean that in the northern ethnic sense, as in “one of the boys from around here who’s done good with himself”).

    Again, I’d qualify this more as ethnocentrism than racism. It becomes racist in the American historical and political context. But my family, for example, would get along much better with upstanding, church-going, working and middleclass blacks than they would with white trash (though they’d never use that term) who hang out down at Louie’s Bar, who think the Posse Comitatus and militia movement are the bee’s knees and who toss racist epithets around as if it were no big thing.

    They were appalled by Sarah Palin.

    They would be horrified at a white person expressing the “southern slave holder view” and have enough historical background to understand that that is what their great-greats fought against. The family’s orginal founder got off the boat from Germany and was basically drafted into the Union Army (if you’ve seen Gangs of New York, that’s how I imagine the scene, though perhaps not so radical) and from boyhood on, I was made very aware of the abolitionist history of the north. I grew up believing Martin Luther King was one of the greatest men in America and I don’t just mean that in the typical white “I love MLK Day” sense. I mean people explained to me why he was great and why what he did made him an American hero. That’s how they see him back home: an AMERICAN hero. Not a black hero.

    None of this means I’m free of racism. But you’d better believe it is a different view of race than that held by “Southern slave holders”. My family would still fight the Civil War at a drop of a hat if they had to and have always looked on Southern romanticism as BS developed by a bunch of corrupt, profoundly unamerican fools.

    Again, I want to salient that none of this means we aren’t racist in our own way. But it’s an ASSIMILATIONIST racism, not a segregationist racism and there’s definitely enough room in that world view for miscegenation.

    In this generation, my family would be far more upset if I married an uneducated woman than a black woman. Historically (back a few generations) they’d have been far more upset if I’d have married a Catholic. A university professor who’s an atheist and likes German food? Frankly, I think they’re surprised I landed her. :)

    Now, that doesn’t mean “black doesn’t come into it at all”. I have a VERY racist great aunt who married into the family and who was originally from southern Illinois, I believe. When Ana first came to dinner, everyone pulled me aside at one point and said “you’ve warned her about Aunt May, haven’t you?” and no one was proud of it, but hell, she’s family. What do you do? Turn her out on the street because of her views of a situation that never came up before? In the event, Aunt May was quite civilized and we were all relieved. Ana was amused by the whole thing: THAT sort of racism isn’t what worries her.

    The best way of describing hegemonic racism in Wisconsin, perhaps, is to quote the phraes I heard alot from people when growing up (not my family, however): “Wisconsin isn’t racist. We don’t have any blacks here.”

    Wrong, on at least three counts. :(

    But I’m looking forward to the comments on our kids. Kids often start out much lighter than they eventually become (I was straw blond as a kid) and here in Brazil, I’ve seen a lot of mulatto kids who start out practically white and blond and who over time darken dramatically.

    So I’m wondering what the reactions are going to be if and when our kids turn out very light, at least at first. It’s impolite in my family to mention color and there’s no historical context at all for understanding the biological twists which occur with miscegenation. :)


  628. Mira, how and where are you looking for these family photos? I was able to find a few everyday family photos without much effort.

    I do grant that they seem less common than the reverse situation, but the photos are out there.

    I think children might be one of the reason, but I’m not sure it’s the main reason why. I have spoken to my SO about children and he admitted to liking the idea of blond children (as he is blond and most of his family is as well). But he doesn’t mind if his children are not blond as long as they are his.


  629. I simply searched for photos of interracial couples. I wasn’t really doing any serious research, but I noticed a couple of things. When you dismiss photos of famous couples and photos made for ads (for specialized dating sites, for example), you are left with very little images that feature a black woman and a white man as a couple.

    Finding family photos with kids is always a bit tricky because many people don’t want to post children photos on Internet.

    In any case, any search will bring you more photos of white woman/black man couples than black woman/white man ones.

    I don’t think interracial couples have much chance of having blond children (but I believe it can happen). Even white couples are less likely to have blond kids if one of them is dark haired. On the other hand, kids’ hair often change colour. Mine was black when I was a baby, and now is dark brown. My husband was blond as a child and his hair is almost black now.


  630. When you dismiss photos of famous couples and photos made for ads (for specialized dating sites, for example), you are left with very little images that feature a black woman and a white man as a couple.

    Not many of the photos I found were for dating sites or ads. They were mostly personal pictures. But I think, in general, people aren’t too keen on posting pictures of their family online.

    In any case, any search will bring you more photos of white woman/black man couples than black woman/white man ones.

    True, and that would make sense considering that of interracial couples involving a black partner, it is more often the man that is black than the woman.

    I don’t think interracial couples have much chance of having blond children (but I believe it can happen). Even white couples are less likely to have blond kids if one of them is dark haired.

    I’ve seen it happen often, actually. But I guess it depends on how we are defining blond; the kids are usually darker blond than bleach blond. Would you consider Garcelle Beauvais’ twin boy (on the left in the first pic) to be blond? The twins’ father is white, although not a blond and very dark-haired.

    So there is a chance our kids may be blond even if he weren’t blond himself. I imagine the chances are higher because he is blond and most of his family is blond going back to his great-grandparents (Swedish and Norwegian descent).


  631. The majority of people of Northern European descent are blond as small children, but only a smallish minority remain so as they grow up.


  632. It’s interesting how Black Women on this list have been so conditioned to limit themselves. I am sure all the comments do apply to different types of men and women. There sure there are dominant Black Women and submissive black women, as I am sure there are white men that find Black Women attracted as there are white men who don’t find them attractive. In the same respect, there are black women who are conservative and there must be Black Woman that are liberal socially and sexually. Further I am sure there are white men that are only interested in Black Women for sex as there are others that generally want long term relationship that lead to marriage.

    Clearly, one has to be open to the many possibilities to discover your options. However, if you are closed up, have hang ups about rejection, issues regarding the intentions of men based on race, and lack the understanding how get a man then you will continue to say the things you say on this list. I think it’s important to be open, but use discretion and brains while dealing with any man. The reason for discretion, is that any man will take an opportunity to have meaningless sex, or subjugate a woman if she allows him by giving her power over to him. One can be delightful without being a submissive door mate who allows a man to take advantage of you. If a relationship doesn’t occur then you should not be intimate or give him any sexual attention. If he pushes the relationship from friends to the next level meaning an exclusive relationship, then intimacy could be considered if you choose so. Your actions of pulling away will communicate to a man that you are woman to be respected, not used. That happens through your actions, not heated words or aggrivated communication. First don’t tell him anything about the number of men you are dating. Even if he asks, cahnge the subject and suggest that he is the only one without actually saying it. Then dangle carrots without making demands. Don’t give him what he so wants and you won’t have regrets if it dosn’t work out. All you have to do is to respond to his advances with a tease but never remove any clothing or get disheveled. A sensual kiss, a caressing soft touch and connect through good chemistry between your personalities, making sure to always stand in his personal space and even put your hands on his waste in affirmative way so that he feels that you are with him, connected. But when he makes advances to get sexual respond with the tease but never put yourself in a situation where he could be angered, just frustrated. That will either motivate him to ask you to be his girlfriend or it will make him give up. If he asked you to be his girlfriend, then never spend the night with him. The more you lovingly frustrate him, and peak his interest the greater his desire to commit to you will become. I am not suggesting you be aloof, I am simply saying DON’T give him everything while building a relationship. If he has the milk he won’t need to buy the cow. Therefore, he must have a reason to feel like he needs to marry you, or has to have you. Of course, if he gives up, then that reveals his ulterior motives. But remember that you don’t want to put him through tests or give ultimatives. You should talk to him like you adore him (as if he is perfection and you accept his idiosycrosies), like you are about him but your schedule limits time together. Then do not give him the sexual attention, emotional and time that you would if you were married. Don’t cook for him alot either. One good meal is enough. If he is black, he will trying to get that meal often, but give excuses to build his need. When his soul is hungry he will hunger for you more. The reason is that is what makes him feel that if you were married he would have all of you. Therefore, two years later he will pop the question, because he wants all of you. Especially if he respects you, loves you and can’t have the time or the sexual attention he really wants with you. If the carrot is dangled the rabbit will follow. He will want more from you.

    I find that Black women are not taught how to get a man and close the deal. They seem to let men choose the,, which results in them taking what ever they can get. Black women often expect men initiate friendship. The reality is that you should initiate a friendship with the man of your choice and woo him with your charm and grace. Charm means personality and humor. Grace means appearance and the lovely way you carry yourself. When you engage him in friendship, there is a developmental process which hooks him into craving you, needing you, wanting you. But many Black women don’t understand it. As for other races of men, if you understand his needs and values, it won’t be hard to date him and or find your next husband. If he isn’t insecure he won’t be on that search for something better if he thinks he found miss right to become mrs. right.

    Consequently, many of you are correct, there is racism, and Black women are on the bottom of the totem poll. However, Black woman do have options but they limit those options due to their own insecurities and cultural dysfunctions. Often times it is a remnent of their childhood, or passed down from their parents. If the parents have a bad relationship, or there is no father in the house, or the parents have low self esteem, then they are unable to teach their daughters how to choose and build healthy relationships. It is abundantly clear on this list serve that it’s the case. I hate that black women are sexualized, denigrated and burdened by patriarchal dominance. It’s a function of people from the African Diaspora for centuries. However, one would think that education would afford Black women the opportunity to be enlightened. But instead, black women continue to share the same antiquated and dysfunctional values that their uneducated ancestors embraced. Therefore, so many are alone with fatherless children, raising children alone, or in inequitable relationships with men,and or resort to women.

    This two year thread is really not about the viability of white men and black women. The stats tells that the numbers are growing and therefore, many educated Black Women are marrying men of other cultures and creeds. But this thread shows me that their are such entrenched ingrained dysfunctional relationship values amongst Black Women that they can not get any man. It’s not just the men. It’s the women. Black Women have not been taught by their mothers and fathers how to get or have a long term relationship leading to marriage. Talking to yourselves on this list just perpetuates the crazy. It’s like crazy validating crazy but you both have no man or even a clue. It’s so ridiculous it is almost unbelievble.


  633. hey i still want the post on ” why so few black women marry white men?”


  634. i don’t think preferring black men in limiting.


  635. *is limiting
    i think there are eligible black men. I think only being around men who are no good and take advantage of you and who don’t respect you is limiting. I am pretty much open to all men, but I still culturally prefer my own race to be honest. At the least I prefer someone that can empathize with what its like to be black in a world that hates black people.


  636. on Mon 25 Jan 2010 at 03:22:24 Caribbean Sugar

    I must say that I am very attractive to white men. This attraction is so disturbing, not that I do not want it to be like that, but because of the fact that it is rare to have white men liking black women. I have now reached a stage in my life where I do not want to get involved with a man unless he is white. In my short life I have experienced hurt from black guys, and the few white men that I have had the pleasure of knowing or being involved with have put a spell on me. I am not saying that I would never get involved with a black man again, but they need to come better. I also know that not all black men are the same, it’s just that I haven’t run into any exceptional ones. Living in the Caribbean limits my opportunity to date outside my race, because everyone tends to stick to their own kind. I am just saying that I as a black woman am open to dating white men , but it would be nice if they too were open to dating outside their race. The same way black men are open about it.


  637. @Caribbean Sugar

    OMG!! Girl I have been feeling the same way as of lately!! I have been finding myself to be more and more attractive to white men!! I, like you wish they would open up a little bit more as well!! I mean I love me some black men and I have not given up on them but I agree most of them do need to come correct!! They need to treat us like they treat their mothers, aunts, sisters and white women!! I mean we deserve the same respect!! Just because where not in your family doesn’t mean you should treat us any kind of way!! Another thing to my white men all black women on the contrary to what you’ve heard are not ghetto, uneducated, on welfare or have a bunch of kids!! Their are plenty of wonderful black women out here, trust me there are!! I really think that we as people need to start judging people on an individual basis instead of as a group!! The key is to be open minded. It’s 2010 not 1890!! :-)


  638. @ Thaddeus

    “But I’m looking forward to the comments on our kids. Kids often start out much lighter than they eventually become (I was straw blond as a kid) and here in Brazil, I’ve seen a lot of mulatto kids who start out practically white and blond and who over time darken dramatically.

    So I’m wondering what the reactions are going to be if and when our kids turn out very light, at least at first. It’s impolite in my family to mention color and there’s no historical context at all for understanding the biological twists which occur with miscegenation.”

    LOL What fun. Coming from a very mixed family this is definitely not a taboo subject for me. My son had, for the first two years of his life, jet black hair and gun metal gray eyes that changed to medium brown hair and brown eyes. He has had the complexion of a redhead and the sunburn misery that goes with it from the day he was born and he is 23. My daughter was born with strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes that went first green, and then settled into a green/hazel. She was much fairer (though not as pale as her brother) when she was a baby. Today she is an olive toned golden blonde at 20.

    Both my ex and I have brown eyes. My daughter’s hazel green eyes are a throwback to my greatgrandfather on my mom’s side who had green eyes. Both of my kids have my eye shape, but my son shares with me the more pronounced native american slant that makes people think there is Korean or Chinese in the background and when he was a baby I had a lot of people asking if my ex were Korean or Japanese (we lived near a military base as my ex was an MP at the time). Genetics is funny that way.

    Don’t get me started on hair!


  639. @Caribbean Sugar
    I can easily say the same thing just replace the “men” part with “women.”

    I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
    You should go out on the piss (get drunk) in the U.K. with me!
    That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.


  640. I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***. (…) That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.

    True, true.


  641. It is not that white men are more cultured. But white men have more of opportunity to become educated since it is a white person’s world.

    It is impossible to lump all white people together. Within this designation you have no sense of unity or homogeneity.

    For example, Italian Americans tend to be not as liberal or institutionally educated as Caucasian Jews. They do not view each other as kindred spirits even though they tend to look similar (Mediterranean).

    We are really talking about an issue of class and education which leads us through some detours of discussion. A working class white person is more often than not, far from being cosmopolitan and will not seek a well educated black woman.


  642. But then again, why would a well educated black woman want to be with a working class man of any race?

    (Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I don’t support this kind of relationships… But I do think it’s rare for people to marry below their education level- especially if women are those with higher education).


  643. This and other postings on why so few white men marry black women has generated at least 1,500 posts so far. This is because Black and White interracial relationships have always been controversial and contentious throughout the history of the United States. Many of the responses are defensive, followed by denial and outright hatred on the trolls and racists’ part. They’re not interested in true debate or dialogue whatsoever.

    I want to thank Abagond for having the courage to post this controversial topic while withstanding the bigotry, denial, and defensiveness on the part of white posters here and on all other posts on this much needed blog.

    La Reyna


  644. Mira,
    Your point is well taken. A person in general should seek out someone they are compatible with on many levels.

    As a secular Jew, I have little in common to share with a religious Jew or someone who does not appreciate or have a modicum of empathy for my liberal politics or culture.

    My wife, who is Black, share a good number of things in common. It is also through her that I can understand, to some degree, issues of racism.

    We are both educated and like a number of similar cultural points (films, art etc). We also share a similar diet ( I am a vegan, she is a vegetarian) We also share a concern for our daughter’s education and invest much time into her education and school.

    We do have differences like many couples. But they are not overwhelming.


  645. on Mon 25 Jan 2010 at 18:25:07 Caribbean Sugar

    @ Vindicator

    I never mentioned anything about anybody being cultured. It is just that my experience with the different races has led me to come to my conclusion. I know that when talking about different groups, there is no way a person could generalize about what kind of person a person is based on where they come from or what they are. I know that there are sweet black men out there, and that there are some white men that are some real assholes. I am just saying that I do find white men attractive, but the majority of them do not find black women attractive. The black men/ white women realtionships are more prominent than black women/ white men relationships. That should say something.


  646. on Mon 25 Jan 2010 at 18:36:20 Leaveumthinking

    Vindicator
    @Caribbean Sugar
    I can easily say the same thing just replace the “men” part with “women.”

    I don’t know where people get the idea of the white man is “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***.
    You should go out on the piss (get drunk) in the U.K. with me!
    That will change you minds about the white man being “cultured”, “intelligent” “they know how to treat their women” and all the other c***

    I AGREE 100%


  647. • There are several reasons why it’s perceived to be hard to date black women, but that perception is based primarily on stereotypes and misunderstanding. Black women are as uniquely individual as any other demographic category of people and should be treated as such. One of the biggest mistakes that men make when dating black women is in treating them as an object, instead of as a woman. Any man desiring to have a strong relationship with any woman had better understand that he must first get to know that woman as an individual. Each individual is different, and that includes women of the African American community black women have long been unfairly stereotyped. Those stereotypes have come and gone with generational changes in society, from the “mammy” type image presented in the first moving pictures, to the booty-shaking “hood girls” of today’s music videos. And, with each new generation comes a new perceived image of the black woman, regardless of how diverse those women live. The history of black women in America has seen them as slaves, caretakers, washwomen, maids, teachers, nurses, businesswomen, ministers Black women were once thought of as the hard working nucleus of the black family. They were viewed as church going matriarchs, who suffered through worthless men, and in more cases than not, raising children on their own. They were thought to have had limited education, subjecting them to mostly low skill service oriented jobs working either in factories or for white families, where white women are perceive and beauty queens, very small and sleek, long hair and sexy.


  648. abagond im still waiting on the “why so few black women marry white men.” post, that should be easy. I can give you ten reasons right now because to be perfectly honest, true most wm don’t prefer bw, but I have been approached by non-bm and I have turned down men before, its not just white and non-bm who play the role…


  649. “to the booty-shaking “hood girls” of today’s music videos. ”
    i really dont’ understand what is wrong with booty shaking…I see booty dancing/ shaking in soukous music all the time. I see west african dances where they use their booty to dance alot and it isn’t done in a vulgar way. It’s just a movement that takes alot of strength in the glutes to be able to move that way. As long as everything that needs to be covered is covered, why is it a bad thing? It’s just another form of dance movement, i dont’ see people getting all up in arms at belly/hip dancing that is characteristic in middle-eastern type dances? WHy is booty shaking getting a bad name? It’s only because hip hop has changed and manipulated booty shaking to make it appear sexually degrading. But i don’t see booty shaking as something inherently wrong. If you ever try to really booty dance, it actually takes a considerable amount of skill and works your thighs and glutes like hell. You gotta be super fit to do the real booty shaking…


  650. honestly i don’t really see anything wrong with this…

    or this


  651. LOL

    Peanut that’s a nice take on the booty shaking phenomenon, what with working glutes and thighs:)
    You’re absolutely right.
    There are some booty shaking traditional dances in Southern Africa that the West has adopted as something to be reviled. You’re right also that’s its a skill. Shaking the derriere is just part of the dance, not exclusively so, yet it’s baffling how in the West its reduced to shaking the butt and ONLY the butt.
    I don’t even want to call our dances booty shaking because of the negative connotation it immediately conjures up in most people’s minds.
    Until there’s respect and understanding of the origins of these dances, it will continue to be exploited and reduced to ridicule in hip hop videos.
    For that we CANNOT blame white people.


  652. now compare those videos with Tip Drill by Nelly and sure booty dancing is going to get a bad rep…


  653. @peanut

    I understand where your coming from with the whole traditional thing, but when you put a big booty girl in a video with her ass swallowing up a g-string it then becomes provocative, disgraceful, distasteful and down right nasty!! It has nothing to do with white people at all it has to do with the way some of us choose to portray ourselves!! Notice I said some because we all don’t do this!! We as black people need to do a lot of soul searching and we need to get ourselves together, because as a race we are falling apart!! I can tell you loads and loads of stories of what I see on a day to day basis but I would be here all night!! We just really need to get our acts together!! I can’t believe what I’m about to say but it’s the truth. If I was white and witnessed half of the things that us black people do on a daily basis, I too would laugh and stereotype!! I mean come on you leave them no choice when you act the way you act and do the things that you do!! I’ve witnessed inhumane behavior from some of our youth and it’s really sad!! Why would another human being want to set another human being on fire!! Yea I said it!! Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!! I mean come on is that really necessary?!He wasn’t doing anything to them, so why bother him! This is what I am talking about. We need to really get our SHIT together and quick!!


  654. Black people do need to get their acts together, that goes without saying, I could just as easily say whites need to do the same. Some months back there was a news item in the UK where two white girls taunted and abused a black girl into jumping to her death. That is just as bad as the black girls setting fire to a tramp.

    Peanut was making an example of an African tradition that has been distorted in the West. Of course such dances aren’t performed in g strings that as you put it, swallow up their bottoms. As most things African, its a celebration of culture that doesn’t do so to demean women. They are not being exploited like they are in the West.
    I don’t watch African dances and imagine these women being objectfied, but I’m mortified when the rapper Nelly swipes his credit card on a black woman’s butt in his videos.
    For that reason, yes blacks in the West really need to clean up their acts, they perpetuate the denigration of black women.

    If you’re a little black boy in the US/UK who grows up on a daily diet of these videos you’d grow up to reduce women to that single part of their bodies.
    Little black girls grow up to feel validated by the size of their butt and how many doors it supposedly opens.
    Personally I really don’t understand the fascination with a woman’s bottom, period.


  655. “I understand where your coming from with the whole traditional thing, but when you put a big booty girl in a video with her ass swallowing up a g-string it then becomes provocative, disgraceful, distasteful and down right nasty!! It has nothing to do with white people at all it has to do with the way some of us choose to portray ourselves!!”
    OKay, in response to the part about booty shaking. I did say as long as everything that needs to be covered is covered there is nothing wrong with it. Also I think the point I was trying to make was that booty shaking itself is not a bad thing, its the corruption of booty shaking in hip hop videos and by the white controlled media that has demonized and degraded booty dancing to being something bad inherently and its not.

    It was the white media that started using the booty dancing as another way to degrade and demonize black women. The same way they used the fact that in some west african cultures the women walked around topless. There was nothing wrong with this, as I understand in some cultures breast were not sexualized as they were in european cultures. But the european colonizers took this to mean that african women were oversexed, when really it was just a simple cultural and climate difference. Ofcourse in tropical weather you’re going to be wearing less clothes, duh!

    If you look back at movies from the 1940s that make bp into caricatures, such as “Coal Black and de sebben dwarves,” you’ll see a clip of the bw bending over in a short skirt, showing and wiggling her butt in a supposed sexualized way. Also note that the vulgar type of booty shaking didn’t really become popularized until the hip hop industry was invaded and taken over by non-black producers and companies. Before that you would see the dancing girls, but the point of the girls was to emphasize their beauty and sexuality in a positive way, not to degrade and insult the woman and uplift the man like today. The white media has always mocked and demonized things associated with african culture as a way to degrade blacks and booty shaking is no different to me. There is nothing wrong with it to me when done with class and a sense of history and I stand by that.

    Also let’s not forget whites do have theirs issues too…Girls Gone Wild, the porn industry. Its not just blacks who have these kind of issues. It’s not….Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!!

    Also with this one…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvzj8wyZ9PI&feature=related
    you’ll note the race of the male participants particularly in the beginning of the clip where they are showing actual footage of the REAL bum fights…so this is not a black issue.

    we have to stop thinking that as a culture we do things that are inherently worse than whites and other cultures. We do not, we’re all human first and foremost and every culture has their issues. Our’s simply get pointed out the most because we are at a constant disadvantage because our cultures on a worldwide scale have been exploited and destroyed and wiped away. Sure we have problems as a culture, but I sure as hell don’t believe were any worse than any other culture. We just have our issues, they have theirs.


  656. Correction:

    “Just last week I witnessed a group of young black girls no older than 16 years of age trying to set a bum on fire!!”

    Also with this one…

    you’ll note the race of the male participants particularly in the beginning of the clip where they are showing actual footage of the REAL bum fights…so this is not a black issue.

    we have to stop thinking that as a culture we do things that are inherently worse than whites and other cultures. We do not, we’re all human first and foremost and every culture has their issues. Our’s simply get pointed out the most because we are at a constant disadvantage because our cultures on a worldwide scale have been exploited and destroyed and wiped away. Sure we have problems as a culture, but I sure as hell don’t believe were any worse than any other culture. We just have our issues, they have theirs.


  657. I will say this though, I do think even if the stereotypes were started by racist whites, it is too many black people who continue and uphold these racist notions. I believe this is mostly because some of us have forgotten or don’t care about our history as a people. So on that account, I do hold some blacks responsible for perpetuating and furthering the negative stereotypes. I remember in the early 90s they had women dancing and stuff, but the dancing was focused on just partying, having fun and enjoying being in the company of women in general. It wasn’t meant to demean the women. Now that has completely changed and if people understood their history better than maybe they would be less inclined to endorse and support these stereotypes which are really just rooted in racism. I can’t really listen to mainstream rap anymore as its just garbage to me now. However I do know that more whites consume the hip hop than blacks, but we need to just full out boycott and stuff playing this nasty music in the club, on our radios etc. as its so damaging


  658. This is exactly why I do NOT like posting on these boards because MY words are always getting taken out of content and in the end I always feel as if I’m getting attacked!!. So to clear things up, I Never said that “white people” were perfect or didn’t have “issues” because we all know they do!! Nobody is perfect including me!! But when I see what I saw last week it really bothers me!! That was disgraceful it really was!! The generation of today I really don’t know what to say, their Terrible!!! I’m like where is your home training?????!!!!! I’m tired of seeing this. And yes I see more young black kids doing this than white that’s why I said what I said!! I never said that white kids didn’t behave as such and frankly I don’t give a damn!! I’m worrying about the young black kids out here because it makes us look BAD!!Trust and believe I will NEVER deny being black or where I come from because this is me, my culture and I LOVE ME!! So don’t be so quick to judge me or put me down for what I said. No body’s putting white people on a peddle stood!!!


  659. And I’m not going to attack white supremacy I’ll rather let GOD deal with that!!! Have a nice night!!!


  660. “Black people do need to get their acts together, that goes without saying, I could just as easily say whites need to do the same. Some months back there was a news item in the UK where two white girls taunted and abused a black girl into jumping to her death. That is just as bad as the black girls setting fire to a tramp.”

    Merrimay, please get your facts right before you post a comment.
    The two girls were not both white, one of them was (not “white” as in british white, i think she was either middle eastern or something else), the other one was Black.
    The violence in the UK by black youths is getting worse.
    I lived there for two years and now i am back in my native country.
    What I have seen would shock you.
    The language that is used in public by young british black girls is so vile and disgusting I can’t repeat it here.
    They way these young girls and boys speak to eachother is horrible! Imagine raising your children around these kids.
    There are kids out there, white and black, who are scared to death to go to school because of other KIDS! How crazy is that? The UK is getting worse and worse by the minute.
    The way christians are treated is disgusting, hell the way non muslims are treated is disgusting.

    Let’s just say I am glad to be home.


  661. oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
    If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
    It was the only way they could be together!

    Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.
    Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.
    Please note, I am not trying to make it seem like slave owners never raped black girls and women, I am trying to highlight the other side of the story as well.


  662. Did I hear someone say “booty dancing”…?

    Folks, meet Watermelon Woman, last year’s sensation on Brazilian T.V., especially with the 10-18 set…

    http://video75.com/Lxmi4MAiWUH/mulher-melancia-no-super-pop-/

    This was all over prime-time Brazilian T.V. faster than you can say “read my lips”.

    But we are very concerned with the negative stereotyping of Brazilian sexuality that’s occuring out there in the world these days… [roll eyes].


  663. Ok I stand corrected, as I’ve said I don’t live in the black community, I only encounter that sort of behaviour when I go into the city. I guess you lived in a part of town that exposed you to that calibre of people, that’s so sad to hear!
    There are many parts of London I’ve deemed no-go zones for that reason, sadly those are usually heavily populated by violent black youths : (


  664. MerriMay,

    I do not and have never lived in ‘the black community’, I take it you mean an area/neighbourhood where there are more black people than white and/or others.
    When I lived in London, I lived in Chelsea, so you can imagine…there were zero black people living there and it’s a very uper class area.
    It was when I went out I encountered black people and that was mainly in Central London where people of all classes and ethnicities frequent, and it was when I used public transportation I saw school kids, black girls and boys use the most disgusting language to refer to one another and speak to eachother.
    There are definit no zones, but Central London is somewhere you have to go if you want things done, it’s not even a “zone” really because central London has a mix of all sorts of people hence why sometimes (not everyday) you see these type of behaviours.


  665. “on Sat 2 May 2009 at 07:07:03 abagond
    How I make sense of it: Why would a white man put up with the pain and trouble of an interracial relationship for a bad imitation of a white woman when he can easily have the real thing? That is why light-skinned women appeal mainly to black men, not white men.

    geez, I take offense.
    I’m a light skinned black girl with “white features” and I don’t see how I am a “bad imitation of a white woman?”
    I don’t like how people refer to black women who look like your beyonce or your vanessa williams as “white women with a tan” or “white girl dipped in milk chocolat”.
    I am not attracted to black men, and I have had no problem attracting men, including black, from all types of ehtnicities, asian,white,latino, name them and I have had them hit on me atleast once.
    Yes, i’m modest.
    Could it actually be that white men like the woman? nooo, it has to be because he is too scared to go “too dark” so he settles with a light skinned girl.
    it’s like i said before, have you ever toyed with the idea that maybe most men prefer the “Inbetween” look which is “”Light skinned black girl” or biracial girl…?

    Think about it.


  666. I am not saying that light-skinned women are imitation white women. They are not. Instead I am trying to make sense of why those white men who go out with black women do not tend to go for whiter-looking black women, which is what I would have expected.


  667. on Wed 27 Jan 2010 at 18:44:24 frustrated guy

    “Could it actually be that white men like the woman? nooo, it has to be because he is too scared to go “too dark” so he settles with a light skinned girl.
    it’s like i said before, have you ever toyed with the idea that maybe most men prefer the “Inbetween” look which is “”Light skinned black girl” or biracial girl…?”

    I don’t think the mixed look is inherently more attractive, but it definitely seems to be the flavor of moment.


  668. Charlette, I’m not attacking you or accusing you of putting white people on a pedestal. I was merely giving a response to your statements. I still have yet to see a black kid in a bum fight, most of the time when it does happen, its not a black kid in my experience. This is not to say black kids don’t do it or that its just a white thing. I am merely saying please don’t put that on black kids because its an ignorant thing no matter who does it and it certainly has nothing to do with color. you weren’t being attacked at all.


  669. L

    Well Chelsea isn’t exactly insulated from the bad elements of London, in fact it’s smack dab in the middle of it, what with council estates surrounding it and whatnot.
    I live in a suburb of SW London, like yours its upper middle class, the surrounding suburbs very similar. Think Kew, Richmond, Barnes.
    While I admit that there are loads of black youths that give us all a bad name, and I’m guilty of thinking the worst of them, their behaviour is hardly the preserve of blacks. Perhaps you notice them more because you are of the same race. I do agree with you that the language they use would ping your ears back. White youths are guilty of exactly the same kind of intimidating behaviour.
    We have to be careful not to portray all black kids in London as ‘yobs’ as they’re called in London.


  670. on Wed 27 Jan 2010 at 19:31:43 frustrated guy

    “oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
    If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
    It was the only way they could be together!”

    True, true. This is what my dad says. He seems to think we are descended from these types of relationships. I could be wrong, but I suspect this is what the affair between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings was like.

    “Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.
    Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.”

    Almost all rape occurs within racial groups.


  671. on Wed 27 Jan 2010 at 20:54:44 mynameismyname

    L,

    You went on a tangent earlier when I commented that it is white men who are not neccessarily interested in black women who tend to respond to a whiter-looking black female while the white men who do have display geniune interest tend to go for more traditionally black women. It is the truth. Of course, there are exceptions but this is how it goes for the most part.

    Obviously, as a black woman who fits the stereotypical “mulatto” phenotype per your self-description, who has deep interest in white men, I can see how you can take that truth as a personal slam. It’s not. You may very well be one of the exceptions.

    No, the stereotype “mulatto” look is inherently more attractive. Those who find that look to be more attractive or superior to a more traditional black one, do so for their own personal ideas on the concepts of “blackness” (and “whiteness”). You can go to the TJ Holmes post, where we had a pretty insightful conversation on that topic–what the western version of black colorism is REALLY all about.

    Your comments seem to infer that you have some issues with being black. (Suggesting that a white-infused black look is superior to a plainly black one- the one 90% of blacks have; saying that you are not attracted to men of your race- the race your father and male relatives are.) Not that it makes you a bad person but it is troubling. Living in an anti-black work can sometimes cause some of us to assimilate these ideas and turn them against ourselves.


  672. on Wed 27 Jan 2010 at 20:56:48 mynameismyname

    Also,

    If white men love the “mulatto” look so much, why don’t they procrate with black women more so that they can “give birth” to the look that they supposedly find to be so beautiful! LOL.


  673. L said:
    “oh, and for the people who keep saying black women were raped by white men, that was not always the case.
    If say, a black woman and a white man fell in love , he had to keep her as a slave to protect her and their future children.
    It was the only way they could be together!”

    Bollocks! White men rarely “loved” Black women during american slavery! It was nothing more than “booty call” for the white man to say the least!

    L said:
    “Also, black women slaves were raped by black male slaves too, but you never hear about that do you? There is a reason for that.”
    Yeah the reason is simple! Rape can happen anywhere and at anytime! Complete and utter strawman!

    L said:
    “Even today, black women are more likely to be raped by a black man than a non black man.”
    Tell me what else is new!


  674. MNIMN said:

    ”Your comments seem to infer that you have some issues with being black. (Suggesting that a white-infused black look is superior to a plainly black one- the one 90% of blacks have; saying that you are not attracted to men of your race- the race your father and male relatives are.) Not that it makes you a bad person but it is troubling. Living in an anti-black work can sometimes cause some of us to assimilate these ideas and turn them against ourselves.”

    I second that!


  675. Is it that bad to be black? Why are you so obsessed with your skin color? It’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities. That’s crap. Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful.

    I think this is a controversial blog anyway for controversy’s sake. Just post a bunch of controversial topics and people will flood the site and comment and make this a popular blog. Yeah but popular for the wrong reason. This blog is dividing whites and blacks.

    Unity by any means necessary!


  676. lol, wow…

    I actually didn’t expect personal attacks on this blog, maybe on other blogs, but this one seemed above that.
    Oh well.

    I have no problem with my skin colour or being black.
    I am not african american, i’m from east africa, the horn of africa, and we tend to be very proud as people.
    I live in europe, and was born and raised here as well.
    Is the whole attacking people for having a preference outside their “race” a defense mechanism among black americans?
    My preference is understandable having been born and raised in an area where me and my family are the only black people, there is no other black people for me to have a relationship with, be it friends or more.
    I do not hate black men for gods sake, what is this? I feel like the level here is so low that i cannot possibly take it seriously.

    I have a father who has been married to my mother forever, he is black, so is my mother.
    He is dark skinned, my mom is light.
    Like I said, I have had no problem attracting men of all types.
    I do not understand what the problem is, if a person who is not black favours the lighter black girl, why does that have to mean he generally has a preference for white women? What I have noticed is that the guys that usually approach me who are white have a preference for attractive women.
    “Race” doesn’t matter as long as she is attractive to him.
    is that so unusual?
    beauty trumps race? no?
    This really does seem like an american thing.
    The land where black militants preach black power with the whitest blondest most aryan wife standing beside them lol

    Look, I am unapologetic about my preference.
    You can’t shame me into thinking there is something wrong with me, let me just get that clear and out of the way.
    I don’t excuse it, and/or try to trash black men while having it.
    I like white men.
    Do I hate myself? No. Can I not see beauty in other races of men? Of course i can, i’m not blind.
    I just have a preference, like every other human being on this planet, but some how if a black woman dares have a preference that is not black men, automatically something is wrong with her.

    “Well Chelsea isn’t exactly insulated from the bad elements of London, in fact it’s smack dab in the middle of it, what with council estates surrounding it and whatnot.”

    yes, i am aware of that, but there is 24 hours police service in that area, much like in holland park,and it’s safer than alot of other places as you may know yourself.
    And council places are everywhere in London, you can’t escape it.


  677. And one more thing, I never said that the “mulatto” look is more attractive, all I said is that it seems like that ‘look’ is popular among many men of all “races”, and if it is something that men prefer, why is that so wrong? And would you say the same if i said the same thing about dark skinned black women with stereotypical “black features”?


  678. it’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities.

    What they are commenting on is the racism pervasive in American society for the most part. This can manifest in many ways such as jobs, housing, and society in general. This blog provides one way of discussing racism.

    Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful.

    Bully for you and your friends.

    I think this is a controversial blog anyway for controversy’s sake. Just post a bunch of controversial topics and people will flood the site and comment and make this a popular blog. Yeah but popular for the wrong reason. This blog is dividing whites and blacks.

    People can choose to comment or not comment. If people choose to comment, what’s it to you?

    Black inferiority is your problem but instead you point the finger at white people and other black people to make it seem like whites are hateful and that if a black person is intelligent you say they are trying to be white.

    To characterize it as such, you obviously have a problem with ‘black inferiority’. You have skewed the meaning of this blog. I reiterate, people can choose to respond or not. Not everyone is going to respond in a way you would like. If people are not interested in a particular post they ignore it. If they are, they respond. If they wish to rebut what someone writes, they do so. Of course this blog will elicit myriad responses. What it boils down to is whether or not people choose to respond to a post or not. No one is forcing them to. If you want to see some real ‘controversial ‘topics’ go to Stormfront or some other nationalist blog. To characterize this as controversial and divisive, reveals more about yourself than the topics themselves.


  679. Right, I got you there Mr. Rogerian.
    No one is forcing you to comment here either.

    All I’m saying is that if you give something power then it will have power over you.


  680. on Wed 27 Jan 2010 at 23:23:47 Frustrated Guy

    “Is it that bad to be black? Why are you so obsessed with your skin color? It’s like some black people (mostly the ones on this blog) are ashamed to be black because how they think everyone views them. You guys sound like a bunch of cry babies. Oh I’m black, people hate me, I can’t get a good job, I don’t have the same opportunities. That’s crap. Where I grew up my high school was 70% black. No one hated them and they didn’t hate anyone else. They made something of themselves and they are all doing well. I love them. Now they could have spent their lives crying about being black but they didn’t. They became successful. “

    Well, many whites (not you) do have quite negative conceptions of blacks. Furthermore, blacks’ awareness and internalization of those attitudes can inhibit their success.


  681. on Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 00:38:00 mynameismyname

    I agree, Frustrated Guy.

    L,

    No one is attacking you. I don’t know you (and you don’t know me) to attack. You made some statements which seemed to reveal a particular mindset. In my opinion, your comments seem to indicate that you have some personal race issues. But then again, who in the western world doesn’t?

    You didn’t answer the question, either. If men all over the world are so enthused about the stereotypical “mulatto” look, why aren’t more of them procreating with black women to spawn the look that according to you, we all prefer??? LOL.

    Also, it doesn’t matter if you’re black American, Eriterian, Jamaican, or anything else. Black is black. Your comments just display that black people from anywhere in the world can suffer from a racial inferority complex.


  682. Most people marry within their own racial groups so this talk of interracial marriage is overhyped. If blacks and whites married at a rate where the biracials were outnumbering both blacks and whites then blacks and whites would be worried because no race of people want to be wiped out.


  683. Damn! Howard Zinn is dead.
    :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

    Here’s an example of a white guy who loved black women in all the right ways.


  684. I know! I just found out he died on Jack & Jill Politics. He was one of the sources for the history of Haiti post.

    I was not aware that he loved black women, much less in all the right ways. What do you mean?


  685. on Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 06:43:00 Truth B. Told

    mynameismyname: You didn’t answer the question, either. If men all over the world are so enthused about the stereotypical “mulatto” look, why aren’t more of them procreating with black women to spawn the look that according to you, we all prefer??? LOL.

    You do this alot, you pretend to be dense when people are perfectly clear on what they are saying. It is truly annoying. If men prefer the “mulatto” look, they aren’t sleeping with Black women because Black women are not “mulatto”. Using your logic, since people seem to love beefburgers, we should all go out and buy our own cows, since it takes cows to make beefburgers.

    Not saying that I agree with the premise of men preferring mulatto’s or I agree with everything L says, but don’t be an intellectual coward and mask your disagreement with her position by using spurious logic. Between that, the pseudo-psychological profiling, and the guilting and shaming (the “male relatives” card) reveal your own issues.

    BTW, of all of the laughable guilting and shaming tactics, who the hell came up with the notion that people should be attracted to people who look like their family? If I met a girl that looks like my mom or sister, I would run away. Not because I think my mom or sister is ugly or I have “self-hate”, I just find the idea of having sex with either of them ultra-creepy.

    Being pro-black and for black-on-black love is great. However, people who are of that mindset should probably spend more time worrying about the Blacks who are for it and less about the ones who aren’t. Like I said in another thread (and of course you went into your typical dense continental mode) people tend to scapegoat IR’s and it’s participants because it is easier than dealing with current reality of the state of Black on Black love, which is not doing so hot.


  686. I do think not being attracted to people of your own race is a clear sign something is wrong.

    Unless you were raised by people of a different race and live in a place/country where you’re the only member of your race- or something like that- it’s not “normal” to react this way. Ok, “normal” might be a bit strong word here, but I do think there’s a problem if you are not attracted to people of your own race.

    So, it’s not really that you should be attracted to women who look like your mother, but you should be able to be attracted to people of her- and your- race.


  687. on Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 09:05:02 Leaveumthinking

    L
    And one more thing, I never said that the “mulatto” look is more attractive, all I said is that it seems like that ‘look’ is popular among many men of all “races”, and if it is something that men prefer, why is that so wrong? And would you say the same if i said the same thing about dark skinned black women with stereotypical “black features”?

    The “Mulatto” look is NOT popular among many men of ALL races.
    It may be popular with most African American men in the US but I have yet to see MANY Asian, Latino, Middle eastern, or White men with women who look biracial.
    Most White men I see are with White women or Asians. The few white men who are with Black women are with ones with stereotypical “black features”.


  688. ^^^
    I agree.


  689. So, why is that? Is it because white people who like black women have strong preference for really dark skin, or is it because those women seem more “exotic” to them?


  690. on Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 11:50:03 mynameismyname

    Leaveumthinking,

    Exactly! Although, a lot of Latino men would be with “mulatto”-looking women because many Latin Americans are indeed “mulatto.

    Mira,

    Re-read the comments in the TJ Holmes post, “dark skin” women are perceived as “real black women” opposed to the minority of black women are may be lighter. They’re seen as “visibly mixed”. If I’m white and want to date a black woman, wouldn’t I want to date what I perceive as the “real thing”? What’s the point of dating someone who I think of as “part white”, when I could easily get a woman of my own race?

    Also, “dark skinned” black women are far more common than “lighter skinned” ones. So, proxomity plays a part.


  691. Zinn was a tenured professor at Spelman College from 1956 to 1963. He was, in fact, one of Alice Walker’s professors and she rated him one of the best teachers she ever had.

    Zinn supported the students of Spelman during the civil rights struggle – a white guy doing this in Atlanta in 1963. He got into trouble with the college administration who told him that it was the school’s job to form “young ladies” and not radicals. Zinn responded that it was Spelman students place to be in the streets fighting for the end of segregation and nothing could be more ladylike. So the university canned him. He lost his tenure because of his support for the radical women of Spelman against their college administrators’ disapproval of their involvement with civil rights.

    A fact that I’m sure Spelman College doesn’t bandy about much these days…

    Wonder if they’ll do something in his memory? I very much doubt it.


  692. If I’m white and want to date a black woman, wouldn’t I want to date what I perceive as the “real thing”? What’s the point of dating someone who I think of as “part white”, when I could easily get a woman of my own race?

    But does it mean that (white) people make a conscious decision to date black women, so they seek ones who are “authentic”? It seems really… wrong. Like I said, I think those who avoid people of their own race have a problem.

    I’m all for interracial dating, but people should remember they’re dating a person, not a race. Isn’t it healthier to choose based on someone’s personality, not their race?


  693. Abagond sez…

    I am not saying that light-skinned women are imitation white women. They are not. Instead I am trying to make sense of why those white men who go out with black women do not tend to go for whiter-looking black women, which is what I would have expected.

    Well, I married Ana because, quite simply, she’s the best person I’ve ever met. Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics. We both had single-parent teacher moms who drove us through school with a burning desire to go on to university. We both come from working-class families where self-education has always been important. Hell, even Ana’s grandad and mine did the same job during WWII: both were mechanics for their respective country’s navys.

    I’ve never met someone, of any color, who’s clicked with me as well as Ana does.

    Margaret Mead once remarked that “married people are the only ones who can finish their conversations”. Ana always has something worthwhile to say and to listen to. That is beyond value in my book.

    My one complaint is that, while she speaks English, she is so self-conscious of her accent that she rarely tries. And she certainly doesn’t write in English, so I end up putting her words down on paper most of the time when we use that language. Of course, she corrects my written Portuguese, as well.


  694. on Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 12:23:49 mynameismyname

    Mira,

    IR romance isn’t as common in the US as many on this blog proclaim it to be. So, none of us have any real clue of the “real” intentions of any individual who is involved in such a relationship.

    Because of the loaded history of blacks and whites, relationships that involve members of both “races” are extremely controversial. Hence the amount of comments for blog topics like this one.

    Yes, “darker skin”, “traditionally black”…whatever we want to call it, are generally seen as more “authentic”. This line of thought comes from the fact that black women who are seen as such are predominate and on ideas of what black people are “supposed” to look like.

    You’re so right, people should just see people as people. But in the U.S., our society is structured mainly on race, so race has no choice but to influence our every aspect of life. Including who we let into our lives.


  695. Well, I am not really into “purple people” philosophy, nor I think colour blindness is a good thing. I was just trying to state the (hopefully) obvious: going for people just because of their race- especially if it’s different than your own- is a bad, almost unhealthy thing to do. People should be forbidden to date anybody before they learn to see people as individuals. Yes, it is about race, but then again, it’s not just about race. There are still some men, for example, who still don’t see women as individuals.

    I knew there weren’t that many interracial couples in America, but I didn’t know it was such a controversial issue.


  696. Thaddeus said:

    “Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics. …

    I’ve never met someone, of any color, who’s clicked with me as well as Ana does.

    Margaret Mead once remarked that “married people are the only ones who can finish their conversations”. Ana always has something worthwhile to say and to listen to. That is beyond value in my book.”

    That reminds me of a guest post that Black&German wrote about the sort of white men who like black women:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/white-men-that-like-black-women/


  697. Thaddeus:

    I did not know that about Zinn and Spelman. How ironic. In hindsight he was right, though somehow I am not surprised by Spelman.


  698. mynameismyname, I did not answer your question because it is so incredibly dumb that it is impossible to answer seriously.
    I recognized your shame tactic and realized replying to you would be wasting my time.

    Like i said, I do find men of other races attractive, BUT, I have a preference for white men.
    That doesn’t mean I can’t see myself in a relationship with, for example, a black man.
    Now, I want to know why that is so “wrong”.
    Every other human being has a preference, why can’t I as a black woman have one without being self hating or there being something wrong with me.

    Just like some men find dark skinned beautiful black women attractive, why can’t I find light skinned handsome white men attractive, and have a preference for that ‘look’?
    There really seem to be a double standard when it comes to this.


  699. I said if (if being the key word here) men did find the ‘inbetween’ look more appealing, why is that wrong?
    that ‘look’ can be the “mulatto” look or the white womans angelina jolie ‘look’, or the half asian half white look.
    If people have a preference for that look, that racially ambiguous look, why is that so wrong?


  700. I can only speak for myself, but I must admit I do find “racially ambiguous look” attractive. The stereotype I want to get rid of is the one about “attractive mixed people”. But, as far as I know, many people (at least female people- and at least female people I know) like the “inbetween” look.


  701. “You can always tell a Spelman girl — she’s under arrest.”

    Zinn’s 1960 article about Spelman girls and their civil rights struggle (“Finishing School for Pickets”) can be read, in it’s entirety, here:

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/19600806/zinn


  702. Is it me, or does “I’m White” get you the creeps. His comments reminds me of white men lurking around for some black woman. This may be what turns some black women off against dating white.

    Didn’t know that this was a dating site.


  703. Sorry, meant “give” you the creeps.


  704. Mira,

    I’m all for interracial dating, but people should remember they’re dating a person, not a race. Isn’t it healthier to choose based on someone’s personality, not their race?

    Absolutely. And my current theory is white men who “date black women” are the ones who only go for the darker skin women. White men who date women regardless of race don’t seem to have this fixation with color. None of the white men I’ve dated have been that type, thankfully. I’d rather someone be interested in me as a person instead of my perceived race. We don’t have relationships/marriages to make social statements, they are personal matters.

    Thaddeus,

    Well, I married Ana because, quite simply, she’s the best person I’ve ever met. Also, in spite of our color, gender and birthplace differences, she’s probably the woman I’ve met who’s most like me in terms of humor, point of view and ethics.

    My SO would cite similar reasons for being with me.

    abagond,

    That reminds me of a guest post that Black&German wrote about the sort of white men who like black women:

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/white-men-that-like-black-women/

    I still need to respond to that post. I think my SO fits the description in some ways, but not at all in other ways. For instance, he has “swag.” :D


  705. “None of the white men I’ve dated have been that type, thankfully.”

    Should be the “date black women” type.


  706. I think every black woman/girl wants a man to like her for her, and not for her skin colour.
    I don’t like those white men who fetishes black skin, and call a black woman “queen” and things like that.
    I do not have a fetish for white men, I have a preference, but that doesn’t mean I find every white man attractive – which is something I have found with some white men, they see a black woman, say dark skinned, and do not care for her as a person, and would trade her with the next black woman with dark skin because they see her as an object instead of a person.
    Much like those white men who go for asian women, they replace them with the next asian woman if she doesn’t fit the bill, as long as she is asian, and that is called a fetish.

    I don’t like how some people say that white men like that male singer who is with paula patton or halle berrys boyfriend, who are with light skinned woman only are with them because they are too scared to go “too dark” and usually go for white women.
    That’s like me saying, those white men who are with dark skinned black women, only are with them because of a fetish for their skin and their stereotypical black features.
    See?
    it’s not good to stereotype and assume.
    I go for men who see women as women, no matter what their colour is, and i do the same, I don’t go for any white man because that is sick, and i don’t have a fetish for white skin.
    I like men with good hearts and great personalitites, the outside only matters so much.


  707. I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.
    I have had black men assume because I am light skinned I will automatically like them, and I have had white men assume I won’t like them because they think I only find black men attractive.
    It’s really frustrating to be in this position because it’s such an ingrained stereotype that people won’t think twice about it, and assume i must only like black men.


  708. L said:
    “I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.
    I have had black men assume because I am light skinned I will automatically like them, and I have had white men assume I won’t like them because they think I only find black men attractive.
    It’s really frustrating to be in this position because it’s such an ingrained stereotype that people won’t think twice about it, and assume i must only like black men.”

    Karma is a b**** huh!?
    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !


  709. L,

    I think many light skinned black girls, including myself, are tired of the stereotype that light skinned girls only like black men.

    I’ve never heard of this stereotype. Where does it come from? And how exactly are we defining “light-skinned?” I’ve heard of biracial black/white females having a preference for black men, but not light-skinned women.


  710. I’m glad that more and more BW are starting to see the light.
    Time to dump the DBR’s and move it along.


  711. Do black people live and work peacefully in Serbia?

    No, they don’t. Black people don’t live in Serbia. There aren’t black people here. I never met one- and that’s not because I live in a specific part of country or city, or because I refuse to socialize with black people. You can go on for several months (or years even- depends on time and place) without seeing any black people on the street. There are only a few- and I mean a few- black people here, mostly foreigners (people from embassies of African countries, a few football players), but that’s all. There are also a few mixed people born in Serbia, but only a few. And when I say a few, I really mean a few (there a re two journalists I know of because they appar on TV).

    These people are mixed because they are children of Serbian women and African men who came here back in 70s and 80s, in “Movement of Non-Aligned Countries” time, as students. The Movement of Non-Aligned Countries was really important to us, because it gave strength to Yugoslavia and other “non-aligneds” to balance between east and west. In those days, many- well, relatively many, African people came to live in Yugoslavia, first as students, and later they got jobs here and got married. Their children are born and raised here and are practically the only mixed people living in Serbia (and other former Yugoslavian republics). Their parents didn’t seem to face discrimination you might, perhaps, expect. If nothing else, political climate made it look bad to speak badly about members of other non-aligned countries, because they were our allies against evils of east and west.

    (Ivon Jafali (journalist) is one of those mixed people.

    http://www.studio-b.co.yu/tv/tvlica.php?lice=12)

    Well, it didn’t work well for Yugoslavia, but it doesn’t change the fact movement of non-aligned countries is seen as a positive thing. If nothing else, in average people’s mind black person is remembered as a student from an ally country (therefore, educated) and not as a violent and lazy ghetto person (or whatever is the main stereotype about black people in America).

    I am not saying there’s no racism. There is. But it’s not one of the main problems here (nationalism, religious intolerance, xenophobia, that sort of things). Like I said, black people don’t live here, so average person don’t think about blacks. There is racism here, I guess, but it’s a racism of a different kind. For example, since most of the people never met a black person, they tend to be curious. They don’t think of you as inferior, but they might stare at you because it’s the first time they see a black person on the street, for example.

    Interracial marriages are not an issue. Because there are no other races here. There’s a potential problem if someone wants to marry a person of a different religion or nationality (but not as frequent as you might think, given recent Balkan history), but not because someone is black.

    I am not saying we are free of racism here, but since there are no blacks around, many people don’t even think about them- which means there are less stereotypes.

    Of course, there are people who hate everybody who’s is “different”, but those people are general haters. Those are individuals who hate all people of different nationality, religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs or race. It’s like a package- all or noting. It’s really rare, even impossible, to find someone who is racist, but is otherwise open to people of different religions, nationalities or sexual orientation. So while those people exist in larger number than I’d like to think it’s ok (to me, ok number of them is zero), name “racists” don’t describe them well, because they oppose to everybody who is different than them.

    Sorry for the long reply.

    PS-I do think those mixed people date white people here, because otherwise they wouldn’t date anybody.


  712. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 17:07:33 mynameismyname

    “Light skinned black women” are stereotyped as only liking black men?

    Wow, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that.

    I’m not sure about you guys but from my experiences “black/white biracial” and supposed “light skinned black women” are seen the same.

    Preferences are preferences but because we live in a very unfair world that privileges certain physical attributes and deintergrates others, prejudice informs certain ideas of what we’re attracted to. Whether some of us want to admit it or not.

    Having a race or skin color preference is not inherent, it’s a SOCIAL preference. One that is shaped by our ideas and concepts of society.

    L,

    So do you think that white men are the answer for black women who have had problems with black men? How do you think white men are different from black men? Does someone’s race inform their individual character? These aren’t “guilt tactics” (I find it very telling that you used this term) or “mind games”, I’m honestly curious.

    There seems to be a sense of pride when you talk about your white mate and when you talk about all the white male attention you claim to get. Why? Would you have that same pride if these men were black?


  713. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 17:31:32 Leaveumthinking

    I’m not sure about you guys but from my experiences “black/white biracial” and supposed “light skinned black women” are seen the same.

    I don’t understand this. I am “darkskinned” like my father, but my mother is what people would call “lightskinned”. My mom has two black parents so how is she the same as someone with a white parent? Just another way to separate mother from daughter I guess.


  714. mynameismyname,

    How do you think white men are different from black men? Does someone’s race inform their individual character?

    They aren’t — they must be trained just like any other man. :)

    I kid, I kid.

    But what is everyone referring to with “light-skinned?” Are we speaking of a Beyonce or Lauren London? Or an Alicia Keys or Faith Evans?


  715. “I don’t understand this. I am “darkskinned” like my father, but my mother is what people would call “lightskinned”. My mom has two black parents so how is she the same as someone with a white parent? Just another way to separate mother from daughter I guess.”

    You know what he means, I refuse to belive anyone is that thick.
    How is one to know if one is biracial or not by just looking at them?
    I have been mistaken for being biracial because i am light skinned, but i am not, both my parents are black.

    mynameismyname,

    Did I ever say that?
    If you got that impression then that is your problem.
    Did i not state that I also have black men (even more so than white men) approach me?
    Did I not say I can also see myself in a serious relationship with a black man?
    Did i not say ‘looks’ are only so important?
    DBR (damage beyond repair) come in all types, from black to white, to everything and everything inbetween.

    I have a preference for white men, but that doesn’t mean I can’t find other men attractive and/or see myself in a relationship with them.

    I use the term “shame tactics” because I see it for what it is.
    Remember, I am not an african american woman, those shame tactics might work on the “Black love” type black american women, but not with me.

    I think black AMERICAN women should widen their dating pool, yes. Why not? Seeing how many black men are dating “Out” , and the 70% of AA women being single.
    What, do you have a better suggestion? Should they wait for their “black prince”, perhaps?
    That will be a long wait, sorry, but that is the truth, and you know it.
    it’s time for AA women to wake up, seriously.
    If that means dating someone outside your “race” then so be it.


  716. “Light skinned black women” are stereotyped as only liking black men?

    I’m with you, mynameismyname; I’ve never heard this either. Nor do I subscribe to it.


  717. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 19:37:23 mynameismyname

    Natasha,

    Each person has their own idea of what is “light skinned”. Celebrities don’t make for the best examples though. Most don’t look the same in person as they do in their publicity photos and on television. For instance, Beyonce is nearly as pale as Alicia/Faith in real life. I didn’t think so either until I saw early pictures of Destiny’s Child from someone I know who grew up with them in Houston, TX. The girl is pale!!! Lauren London is lighter in person than on television as well but not a “pale face” like the other three you named. She’s also not as cute, in person. Very average.

    Wow, I really diverted…LOL. Sorry.

    You’re right….a man is going to be a man. It doesn’t matter what race they are. The complaints that white women have about the men in their life is almost identical to the complaints that non-white women have about the men in their life. Don’t believe me? Ask a white woman, a black woman, an East Asian woman, etc. if their husband/boyfriend leaves the toilet seat up? You know dang ol’ well they all are going to have the same answer! LOL!

    So, when I hear women like “L” go on about white men being the solution to black women who feel slighted by a black man, I’m puzzled. What makes you think a white or non-black man is going to be so amazingly different?! Racial stereotypes, that’s what!

    “L” seems to feel that she’s superior to black American women. If not, then why do she keep differentiating herself from them by informing us that she’s not “one of them”? It doesn’t matter if you’re from Alabama, Trinidad, Cuba or Somalia, black is black! Your blatant self-hate just goes to show that internalized racism occurs amongst blacks all over the world, unfortunately.

    70% of black women are single? How can you prove so? How could a study like that actually be conducted? Door to door? By phone? A sample group? A fill-out survey? I’m confused.


  718. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 19:40:02 mynameismyname

    Leaveumthinking,

    I’m saying! That’s how people think. Essentially people see “black/white biracials” and “light skinned blacks” as one in the same. Except one has a white parent. Like I said in the TJ Holmes post, when most see a black who they think of as “light”, they think “mixed”. Hence, why people like to pick apart a Beyonce’s racial lineage and not a Don Cheadle’s. Even though Cheadle’s fair amount of European heritiage is documented.


  719. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 20:12:03 Leaveumthinking

    You know what he means, I refuse to belive anyone is that thick.
    How is one to know if one is biracial or not by just looking at them?
    I have been mistaken for being biracial because i am light skinned, but i am not, both my parents are black.

    Yes I know what he means. I just dont understand why biracial women and light skin black women are veiwed as the same when one have two black parents and one do not. And no I am not thick. The people who assume someone is biracial simply for having light skin are the ones who are thick. People who mistaken you for being biracial are ignorant to assume that ALL biracial people have a certain look.

    Remember, I am not an african american woman, those shame tactics might work on the “Black love” type black american women, but not with me.

    Please do not put all African American women in the same box. Shame tactics do not work with us either. I am for black love without it I would not exist. At the same time I’m for all love as long as it is based on love and not self hate.

    70% of AA women being single.

    Sometimes I wonder where do all these “single can’t find a man” black women live. All of the black women I know are in relationships most are with quality black men. The ones who are single are not ready for marriage and choose to be single. I have never had difficulties finding good men who were interested in serious relationships.


  720. mynameismyname,

    I know what is meant by “light-skinned” depends on who you are asking. What I want to know is what L and yourself are referring to by the term. Then I can move on to working out the stereotype L mentioned above.

    Hmmm… I don’t believe for one minute Beyonce was born as pale as she is now. She used to be a more golden color/caramel color, way back when. She also has a very “faded” complexion that is reminiscent of one that has undergone skin whitening. If you watch her evolution over time, she has gotten whiter and whiter, not just in color, but in features as well. I don’t think [white] people would be claiming she is mixed if she looked like she did before.

    Playing devil’s advocate — how does culture influence people/mens’ behavior? If culture affects behavior, then L’s “thoughts” may have some basis.

    Maybe L is differentiating herself from black American women due to her separate history/upbringing? Many black American women feel they must “stick to their own” due to the history and struggle of black Americans in the US. They will not date white men out of principle. Add on the covert or overt discouragment of friends and family members from dating outside of the race… So maybe she feels your “shame tactics” or any such pressures do not affect her or apply to her because she is not American. Just maybe. I don’t know. She might agree or disagree with that sentiment.


  721. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 20:27:44 frustrated guy

    “Preferences are preferences but because we live in a very unfair world that privileges certain physical attributes and deintergrates others, prejudice informs certain ideas of what we’re attracted to. Whether some of us want to admit it or not.

    Having a race or skin color preference is not inherent, it’s a SOCIAL preference. One that is shaped by our ideas and concepts of society.”

    Europeanness still counts for something on the dating market. However, there are many other considerations when choosing a mate. One of the most important of these is weight. A substantial proportion of American women of all races, including white, are grossly overweight. I think most reasonable guys would prefer a “darkskin” girl who is in shape over a “lightskin” or white one who is obese. Elegance matters as well. Thus, though many still attach bonus points to whiteness, this is far from the only or most important factor.


  722. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 20:41:04 Leaveumthinking

    Mnimn,

    I am from Houston,Texas and yes Beyonce ,while she is pretty, she looks like every other pretty girl you see on the street nothing special.


  723. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 21:05:53 mynameismyname

    Leaveumthinking and Lynette,

    I agree with everything you said! But Leavem, many people like to put things in a box in order to understand them. Hence, the “biracial” thing.

    I never found Beyonce to be stunningly beautiful. She’s cute but she wasn’t better looking than any of the other members of the original Destiny’s Child. They were all equally pretty.

    Speaking of Beyonce, I also thought the same thing as you, Natasha. I never paid attention to her complexion, or anyone else’s really. But when I heard so many people call her “light skinned”, I wondered what they were seeing. Then I saw early pictures and saw that she’s nearly as pale as her mother. She’s bronzed and tanned most of the time “we” (the public) see her. Same with the other ladies you mentioned.

    Outside of color (well, there are some really pale black folks all around the world…), everything else about Beyonce is stereotypically “black” so those who question her ethnicity are just ignorant. She’s hardly “ambigious”.

    And good luck figuring out what each person calls “light skinned” because everyone is going to have their own perception of that. Many blacks like to call themselves “light” even when they are commonly seen as such. “L” could very well be one of them.


  724. on Fri 29 Jan 2010 at 21:14:44 mynameismyname

    I meant to type “Many blacks like to call themselves ‘light’ even when they are NOT commonly seen as such.”

    Natasha,

    Yeah but her tone in the differentiation wasn’t about having a “seperate cultural identity”. There was a sense of superiority there. This also comes across when she keeps bringing up her skin color and features. She feels that it puts her on the pedestal. When in reality, it doesn’t. Black is black.

    Culture can influence anyone’s behavior to some extent. Yet, inform your entire individual personality? What does race have to do with whether someone is a suitable man or not?

    Also, I was not trying to shame anyone. Hell, I don’t even know how to! LOL. That she came across so defensive and accused me of “shame tactics” is telling. If she feels that her attitudes and “preferences” are so pure and honest, why get defensive?


  725. I’m going to stae some fact for you, and I will not repeat myself again.
    I am doing this because “mynameismynameis” and some other posters keep tqisting my words.

    1. I am more of Beyonces mothers complexion than Beyonce, so there for I consider myself “Light skinned”, i usually do not use this term, but I did so you would understand the point i was making in my previous post.

    2. I do not have superiority complexion of any kind, and do not feel I am better than anyone else.

    3. I never said BW shouldn’t date BM, all I said was that they should keep their options open for men of other races as well.
    As well, as seeing the statistic that 70% of african american women are single…well you do the math.

    4. I really hate how people twist your words when what you said is out there loud and clear black on white.
    I never said black women buy into the “shame tactics” i said the type who preach “Black love” who only see black men worthy of their love and hate all other men buy into the shame tactics, like black militants for example.

    5. “Maybe L is differentiating herself from black American women due to her separate history/upbringing? Many black American women feel they must “stick to their own” due to the history and struggle of black Americans in the US. They will not date white men out of principle. Add on the covert or overt discouragment of friends and family members from dating outside of the race… So maybe she feels your “shame tactics” or any such pressures do not affect her or apply to her because she is not American. Just maybe. I don’t know. She might agree or disagree with that sentiment.”

    I agree.

    As an outsider “Looking in”, I see how loyal black women are to black men…nothing wrong with that, except…well, it’s not the smartest thing right now for BW.
    BW do not win by doing this, BM do.
    BW are the only ones who are loyal (if we see the statistic for BM and irr) to BM, the same can not be said for BM, they are not as loyal to BW, and BW are the only ones carrying the “black community” on their backs.
    When will they start putting themselves first?

    I’m sorry, but with the rate of BM in jail,on the ‘down low’,gay, uneducated,and in irr,there is just no way for BW, realistically, to seek out BM only.


  726. essentially what i’m saying is, BW do not limit yourself to “black love”, love comes in all colours and shades.


  727. mynameismyname,

    I could make a living out of dissecting celebrities’ appearances. And one thing that is for sure is that Beyonce is “constructed.” We both agree that all celebrities are more or less constructed, but Beyonce is on the extreme end. Unless you saw the original childhood photos in person, I’m not believing that she is naturall y that pale. Actually, I wouldn’t believe it then either because most people are of lighter coloring as children. But I do believe the childhood photos I’ve seen of her online show a golden complexion; not as pale as she is now. According to those pictures, she was originally around Solange’s color.

    Culture can influence anyone’s behavior to some extent. Yet, inform your entire individual personality? What does race have to do with whether someone is a suitable man or not?

    Some anthropologists believe personality is almost entirely learned. While I wouldn’t go that far, there may certainly be effects on personality as a result of culture. If an individual is raised in a culture where aggression is encouraged, they may internalize that and have a more aggressive personality. So if we are assuming that there is a black culture (which I don’t, but let’s say for the sake of argument that there is one), one could be attracted to or unattracted to this culture, and consequently, individuals of that culture.

    Now, even if we were only dealing with behavior and not intrinsinc personality, values, expectations, and beliefs are all most largely influenced by culture, and those can and will have effects on behavior. And behavior is taken into account when judging the suitability of a partner.


  728. on Sat 30 Jan 2010 at 00:45:48 mynameismyname

    Natasha,

    You’re absolutely correct: “Beyonce” is extremely constructed.

    Neither of us have seen the woman in person. So, neither of us have “first hand evidence”. I know of the childhood photo you speak of. This also threw me off when I saw the early DC photos. It also threw me off when the people I know who grew up around the DC members and the Knowles family also described her as “really pale”. Former DC replacement Farrah Franklin even described Beyonce as being lighter as her. So, perhaps those early photos were tampered with and all of the Houston folks and Farrah are lying or exaggerating. But who should we believe? Two random folks like us? Or people who were around her and grew up around her who have taken photos with her?

    In any event, her complexion doesn’t matter. But it just goes to show you that using celebrities as physical examples is extremely faulty.

    Aren’t there subsets of culture? Even if there is a believed black culture, wouldn’t there be variations of it? And would each member of this culture be alike?


  729. She isn’t looking pale in this photo:

    http://img39.imageshack.us/i/g5dy.png/

    Or this one:

    She’s definitely not wearing bronzer, and the younger photo even has bright lighting.

    Former DC replacement Farrah Franklin even described Beyonce as being lighter as her.

    Actually, she said “My assumption was that everytime I looked at a picture, [Beyonce] stood out more because she was the bright one. Not because she was the prettiest, but because she was lighter…I had to tan.” She was told to tan so Beyonce would remain the lightest in complexion.

    In any case, I find her thoughts irrelevant to this discussion seeing as she came into the group after Destiny’s Child became famous. She would have known her after the fact.

    Aren’t there subsets of culture? Even if there is a believed black culture, wouldn’t there be variations of it? And would each member of this culture be alike?

    A subset isn’t a separate culture. It would still contain specific elements of the main culture.


  730. I agree, Lynette and Leaveum!

    I’m tired of the propaganda that is causing *some* BW to throw themselves at any man who will have them or to view White men as some kind of savior from “those trifling Black men.”

    My boyfriend’s not Black, but I’m not dating him because some Black man scarred me for life–what a silly idea! The last guy I seriously dated was Black, some guys in between were White, some Latino, etc. I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to believe that Black women are desirable, or that not everyone dates people because of some “hangup”.


  731. on Sat 30 Jan 2010 at 04:52:17 mynameismyname

    Natasha,

    Damn, you’re just not willing to accept that this chick is really pale in person …and always was! LOL.

    You’re black. You know that darkly pigmented people will see their complexion vary from picture to picture.

    I know what I saw. I know what people who knew DC and the Knowles’ before we did said and they have no reason to lie about something as dumb as her skin color. Beyonce doesn’t have to bleach her skin. She’s already pretty damn pale! LOL.

    But believe what you want to believe. It’s okay. This just shows how subjective perceptions of skin color are.

    So dismissing someone’s culture is good reason to dismiss them even if they make for a perfectly suitable mate? I’m not very interested in “X” lifestyle, for instance, but let’s say I meet a nice young lady who happens to derive from that background. I should dismiss her because I’m not fond of that culture?

    If a white employer sees you and decides that they’re not fond of the alleged black culture. And decides not to hire you because you must belong to that culture, per your race. Is this right?


  732. OMG, people really need stop putting words in my frickin’ mouth! I never said white men are better than black men!!
    I never put ANY men on a pedastal!
    I don’t chase men! WTF!? I can really see now that people here have issues!

    My boyfriend is white and he is the one who chased me, I don’t chase men, and i have never seen a BW “throw themselves” at any man.

    Damn, it’s annoying how people always twist your words.


  733. And FYI, Beyonce tans! When i am at the beach i lay out because i like it and i like getting darker, I have seen beyonce lay out many times.
    She looks naturally “light skinned”, you can see clearly who “bleaches” their skin, like Lil” kim, they have this unatural light/ashy looking pale skin, it doesn’t look natural, it looks like a dark skinned person put lots of white powder on their face.
    So yeah, you can tell who is naturally lighter, like Beyonce.
    Even though I wouldn’t call beyonce light skinned, she is not “Brown” or “dark skinned”, she’s somewhere inbetween.
    Alicia keys is light skinned, and she tans a lot too, to get darker.


  734. Damn, you’re just not willing to accept that this chick is really pale in person …and always was! LOL.

    I do think she is pale, but not naturally that way. She is naturally a golden omplexion. As in this picture, sans professional lighting:

    http://img503.imageshack.us/i/sanstitre0da.png/

    and this one:

    There is plenty more of those and they speak for themselvs. Yes, a person skin shade can appear differently from photo to photo, but a pale person is not going to appear that color, ever, let alone consistently. You know this and I know this. A person who is pale would only appear to be paler under white light.

    I wonder what you are really arguing for: her being naturally pale or the idea of some black people being naturally pale in general.

    So dismissing someone’s culture is good reason to dismiss them even if they make for a perfectly suitable mate? I’m not very interested in “X” lifestyle, for instance, but let’s say I meet a nice young lady who happens to derive from that background. I should dismiss her because I’m not fond of that culture?

    I don’t think that L. ever said she would dismiss a suitable partner. She just said that in general, she wasn’t attracted to black men.

    L,

    She looks naturally “light skinned”, you can see clearly who “bleaches” their skin, like Lil” kim, they have this unatural light/ashy looking pale skin, it doesn’t look natural, it looks like a dark skinned person put lots of white powder on their face.

    That’s exactly what I was referring to above. She has that “ghastly” cast, albeit not as drastically since she is naturally light. I can pull up some candids if you need proof…


  735. http://www.youtube.com/user/SheRocks07#p/a/u/1/Yh2kDJPWHnw

    this video kind of sums up what I can’t put in words.

    Preference is not a choice.


  736. on Sat 30 Jan 2010 at 16:43:54 mynameismyname

    Natasha,

    Who’s arguing? Like I’ve said a million times before, percerptions of skin color are purely subjective.

    What is extremely pale to me and others may very well be “not that light” to you. What may be “black” to me, may be “white” to you. Race is whatever the individual wants it to be.

    Bottom line: if somone claims that they are “not attracted” to members of their “race” because of their race and “culture”- they have issues. We can try to rationalize or sympathize, but at the end of the day, something isn’t right with that line of thought.


  737. “Bottom line: if somone claims that they are “not attracted” to members of their “race” because of their race and “culture”- they have issues. We can try to rationalize or sympathize, but at the end of the day, something isn’t right with that line of thought.”

    Nope.
    Any sane person knows that preference is something you can’t control, it’s something you’re born with, everyone has a preference, yes, even you!
    it doesn’t have to be someone with the same skin colour as yourself.


  738. on Sat 30 Jan 2010 at 17:02:55 Leaveumthinking

    Some people like to believe the lie that African American women are lonely and manless (like “L” for example). I guess that helps them sleep at night. The truth is black men (in general) are attracted to black women and marry them far more than white men or any other race of men. Many black women I know have no problem attracting just about any man they want. Some women on this blog feel that white men are better and black men do not meet their standards. Some have actually stated that in order to marry a black man they would have to settle or marry down. Some women need to look at themselves and make sure they themselves meet those standards. Maybe its you. If you are as put together as you say you are then you should have no problem attracting and keeping a good man of any race.

    Also I’m tired of some black woman on this blog and others, complaining about how white men don’t want them. Or making out a check list to other black women on what they need to change or how they need to be or not be in order to get a white man.
    SO THE FCUK WHAT! there are plenty of men of other races who do find black women attractive. Give them a try instead of going after men who you claim dont want you.


  739. mynameismyname, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But I see where you are coming from.

    L., why are you attracted to white men (and not attracted to black men)? I think explaining why would be helpful if you feel you are being misrepresented. I do believe people have innate preferences but one can not ignore the role of socialization and culture in the formation or reinforcement of preferences.


  740. Leaveumthinking,

    I’m with you on that. It’s almost embarrassing. Why in the world are some of these black women worrying about white men? It’s beyond me.


  741. Hmmm.

    I fall down on both sides of this line.

    On the one hand, I think fetishizing any particular type of body isn’t very healthy. I have blue eyes in a country where they are very exotic and any woman who comes up to me and uses the opening line “Wow, your eyes are so beautiful” is going to see me run fast and far.

    I’m a guy. And I STILL don’t want to relate to people who think I’m attractive just because I’m something they don’t normally see.

    On the other hand, people do indeed have preferences and it’s kind of useless to try to train them out of these with diatribes about politics. I would hope that people who do have preferences would be up front about them and not try to hide them or pass them off as “hell, everybody likes X”.


  742. hey Lynette,

    Read your dissertation, thank you, was a great read :)
    I’d completely forgottten to tell you. Very good work ;)


  743. Jesus christ…

    Ok i’m going to put it as simple as i can.

    Yes, i have a preference for white men, NOT a fetish, I repeat, NOT a fetish.
    I don’t see blue eyes and think “gosh those blue eyes *drools*”
    I’m from one of the whitest countries in the world, i have only been surrounded by white men all of my life, besides my father and my brother, the only men i have been exposed to have been white men.
    Maybe that is why I have a preference for white men? I don’t know, all i know is that THAT is my preference and i can’t help it, and i really do not feel i need to explain myself because everyone has a preference.

    At the end of the day, I find attractive men attractive and i recognize beauty in everyone.
    I don’t seek out white men, i don’t chase men, i get approached regularly , i have no problem attracting men of all types of “races”.
    I don’t worry about white men and what they think, i don’t worry about men period.

    “Leaveumthinking”, you really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
    I said that 70% of african american women are single, hell it’s been everywhere in the news.
    Sorry if i offended you, but that is what is being said.Most african american women are highly educated more so than african american men, so of course it’s reasonable for them to date other men of other races. Why not? love is love, right?
    I never said white men are the solution to every black womens problem, you saying that is very telling though.
    Actually, you putting words in my mouth is very telling.
    The black women empowerment blogs i have checked out have never said anything about “white men are the best ,black men suck” etc.
    Again, very telling. Sometimes i wonder if people even bother reading posts here.

    “L., why are you attracted to white men (and not attracted to black men)? I think explaining why would be helpful if you feel you are being misrepresented. I do believe people have innate preferences but one can not ignore the role of socialization and culture in the formation or reinforcement of preferences.”

    I like white men because i find them physically attractive.
    My first crush was a white guy, my first bf was white, etc etc.
    I have grown up watching mostly white men in movies, television and irl.
    I think my preference, if anything, is understandable.
    Like i said, that doesn’t mean i find every white man i see on the street attractive, hell to the no! lol, ugly comes in all colours, but generally i prefer (good looking) white guys more attractive than other races of men.


  744. Thank you Leaveumthinking and Lynette.

    As for L., if White guys are your preference, so be it. Please don’t use this forum to bash Black men or to tell Black women who don’t have the prefence for white men to expand or change our behavior. I don’t like the trend on the part of our people to bash the opposite gender in order to get with nonblacks. That’s not right.

    La Reyna


  745. In my experience La Reyna and Lynette are both very fair-minded and sensible. If they agree on something it is almost always true.


  746. La Reyna, I never bashed black men.
    Did you miss where i clearly pointed out “bad” men come in all colours?
    If anything, I KNOW how strong a preference is, if a black woman is set on black men, and only finds black men physically attractive, there is nothing anyone in the whole world can do about it.
    That is a preference, and that is attraction, you can’t change that, trust me.
    And if we’re going to talk about bashing the opposite gender…have you been on youtube lately? there is a growing trend on bashing BW, yes by black men.


  747. And if we’re going to talk about bashing the opposite gender…have you been on youtube lately? there is a growing trend on bashing BW, yes by black men.

    I’ve noticed this (recent?) trend of black men bashing black women. Mentioning, for example, the Sapphire stereotype or calling negative attention to their appearances. Not on youtube, but in real life. When called on it they claim they were just joking or essentially take the stance that they have carte blanche to talk about black women since they are also black. When black men trash black women and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will think it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black women must be terrible if even black men talk about them.


  748. on Sat 30 Jan 2010 at 23:15:56 mynameismyname

    ^^^
    Very true, Natasha but to rephrase the end of your previous comment…

    When black WOMEN trash black MEN and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black MEN must be terrible if even black WOMEN talk about them.

    It’s a two way street. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Dating outside of your race because you internalize the “societal stigmas” placed on them is wrong. La Reyna was right on.


  749. “I’ve noticed this (recent?) trend of black men bashing black women. Mentioning, for example, the Sapphire stereotype or calling negative attention to their appearances. Not on youtube, but in real life. When called on it they claim they were just joking or essentially take the stance that they have carte blanche to talk about black women since they are also black. When black men trash black women and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will think it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black women must be terrible if even black men talk about them.”

    I think it takes a really weak man to insult a woman.
    Just because you share the same skin colour,melanin, DNA, doesn’t mean you own me, i am not “your woman” and you are not “my man” because we both are black.
    You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
    I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
    BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.
    I honestly do not care what others think, it’s when they start to act i get scared.
    When they start acting out their thoughts…


  750. @L

    If you grew up in white society, where only black people you knew were your family members, your preference for white men is somewhat understandable (read my previous posts on this page).

    There’s nothing wrong with preferences (unless you always stick to them to a degree you would never even consider dating a person who doesn’t fit your “ideal type”, but that’s more of a fetish). I have preferences, you have your own. That is normal. Nothing wrong with that.

    What is wrong is to dislike people of a particular race and refuse to date them (especially if it’s your own race we’re talking about) because of some stereotypes, or even bad experiences.

    Some women here mentioned couple of times how bad black men can be to black women. Excuse me, but do you really think white men are any different? As a group I mean? Are there women who really, honestly believe one group of people (white men, for example) are more respectful, gentlemen, and “the ones who care”? White men mistreat women all the time. It’s nothing new. Domestic violence is everywhere. Not all men are like this, and perhaps (hopefully) most aren’t- but it has nothing to do with skin colour, religion, nationality, political belies etc. It really depends on person.


  751. “Dating outside of your race because you internalize the “societal stigmas” placed on them is wrong. La Reyna was right on.”

    No one is doing that though, if that was the case, it wouldn’t last very long.
    People who date other people based on superficial or “social stigmas” won’t be with eachother for very long.
    marriages between a BW/WM couple is the lowest divorce rate out of all irr’s.
    I will provide you with the links and statistics, and articles tomorrow, i’m going to sleep now, it’s late.


  752. “do you really think white men are any different? As a group I mean? Are there women who really, honestly believe one group of people (white men, for example) are more respectful, gentlemen, and “the ones who care”?”

    Nope, trash comes in all colours and “races”.
    I don’t hold any man up on a pedestal….lol it’s actually laughable, if you knew me, you’d understand.
    I don’t think about guys before i sleep, i don’t talk about boys with my girlfriends, i don’t even date.
    My bf had to really chase me and prove to me that he was serious before i even entertained the thought of being with him.
    That’s just the kind of girl i am, and i can only speak for myself.


  753. i’m 21 by the way.


  754. Well, I haven’t read all of your posts on this subject (will try to find them), but I must say it’s not unusual for you to be attracted to white men, because you grew up among them. I mean, even if you didn’t of course you could find white men attractive, but especially if you grew up in all white society.

    Those mixed race people in my country, I believe, date white people. Because those are the only people they meet, if nothing else.


  755. Studies on birds show that they prefer the race grew up among, not the race they were born into.

    Jared Diamond notes, based on his own experience, that Chinese American women, when given an equal chance to marry white or Chinese, will prefer white men if they grew up in a white neighbourhood and Chinese men if they grew up in a Chinese part of town.

    So based on that it would be “natural” for a black woman to prefer white men if she grew up in a white neighbourhood, if most of the men she has known in her life were white. But to black women who grew up in a black neighbourhood it might seem unnatural.


  756. mynameismyname,


    Very true, Natasha but to rephrase the end of your previous comment…

    When black WOMEN trash black MEN and perpetuate stereotypes about them, others will it’s okay to do so as well, and believe that black MEN must be terrible if even black WOMEN talk about them.

    It’s a two way street. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    I agree. I don’t think black women badmouthing black men is okay either. And I most certainly would not allow anyone, black or otherwise, to do so in my presence. I’ve been put in that situation more since I’ve been with my SO; I guess people assume that since I am with him that means I dislike black men or feel they are unworthy as partners. One female friend of his family made a comment while we were discussing men, “I guess it’s safer and more secure being with Jay, what with so many black men in prison or uneducated and out of work…” Let’s just say I think she regrets saying that to me. :)

    L,

    You are not my “brotha” unless we are blood related.
    I think BW need to break free from being viewed as a “collective” with BM, it is only hurting BW.
    BW need to be viewed as seperat to BM, as individuals, only then will BW break free from the negative stereotypes associated with them and this smoke screen that is the “Black community”.

    I agree and disagree with this. While I am all for individuality and people knowing who they are and what they want out of life, I think that there should be more unity between black people. Separation is not the solution, it’s the problem. Black men and black women came from the same place — black men and black women. A house divided against itself cannot stand. When black men and women work together and support each other, they prosper.


  757. Studies on birds show that they prefer the race grew up among, not the race they were born into.

    Jared Diamond notes, based on his own experience, that Chinese American women, when given an equal chance to marry white or Chinese, will prefer white men if they grew up in a white neighbourhood and Chinese men if they grew up in a Chinese part of town.

    So based on that it would be “natural” for a black woman to prefer white men if she grew up in a white neighbourhood, if most of the men she has known in her life were white. But to black women who grew up in a black neighbourhood it might seem unnatural.

    True. (It’s always interesting to read Diamond). It does make sense.

    But how could you explain someone who, like me, grew up among people of their own race, but is attracted to others? I am not saying I am not attracted to white men- I am, but only particular types. And ever since I was 13 or something I knew I was attracted on men of different races. I would catch myself looking at pictures or non-white actors in films. It’s not something conscious, it just seems natural to me.


  758. I am married to a black man, but I find all types of men attractive, including white men.When I was younger, I was good friends with a young white man who was very nice and attentive. I seriously doubt that he was a racist. He always expressing concern for me and to this day, I appreciate his friendship. I have met several white men who were decent people. So I don’t have a problem with interracial dating. But the only problem I have when people date interracially is when they start to put down black people. Why can’t you just have a preference for a certain type of person without putting other people down? Like some black men only want to date white women, so they put down black women by saying we are all evil, loud, and obnoxious. Or some black women only want white men so they say all black men are in prison or uneducated. Can’t people just love the person they want to love without being malicious to other people? Other than that, I don’t have a problem with interracial dating. In fact, If I hadn’t been cautious about interracial dating, I would have considered a relationship with that nice young man. He was a beautiful person.


  759. on