The pure white woman stereotype was a picture that white Americans had in their heads about white women. It pictured them as being pure in terms of both sex and race. It was the main excuse given for Jim Crow, the laws and customs that kept down black people for a hundred years after they were freed as slaves.
Even today the stereotype lives on in a weakened form, making white Americans uncomfortable when they see a black man with a white woman.
The pure white woman determined how whites looked at blacks. If white women were pure, then black men were the threat. Thus the black brute stereotype, which saw black men as savages. And if white women were pure, then black women were not. Thus the Jezebel stereotype, which saw black women as easy and loose.
This picture of white women had such force that a black man could be killed just for being too friendly with a white woman. Thus the lynchings, where black men hung dead from trees.
At the heart of all this was the raw fear in the hearts of white men that black men would take all of “their” women – meaning the white women. They thought black men were better at pleasing women in bed. So they had to be stopped.
They were stopped in three ways:
- White men kept the races apart with Jim Crow laws, laws backed up by lynchings.
- White men made sure that most black men were kept poor, making them undesirable to white women as husbands.
- The One Drop Rule meant that any children a white woman had by a black man would be black too.
Black men were kept from white women, but white men continued to rape black women without consequence.
So, in the name of keeping white women pure, to keep them up on that pedestal, blacks were kept down.
But white women were kept in their place too, even if it was up on a pedestal somewhere closer to the angels.
The American magazines and religious books of the 1800s told white women that to be good and pure they should leave the dirty business of running the world to their husbands. So no need to vote. They were told that making beds was much better for them than reading books, which would only fill their heads with the wrong ideas. And so on.
The Jim Crow laws came down in the 1950s and 1960s. By 1967 black men could marry white women anywhere in the country.
But even now some white people are still not comfortable seeing a black man with a white woman. White women are still held up as more beautiful than anyone and more morally upright, despite “Girls Gone Wild” and other things. And when a white woman is missing it can be on the news for days and days, while missing black women never seem to make the news for some reason.
See also:
Good post yet again Abagond.
With the history beihind the pairing of bm/ww, why do you think they are only number two behind wm/aw?
Why are so many bm willing to overlook the Emit Tills’ of this country in order to marry a ww?
Thanks. That is a good question. I think Jim Crow made such pairings more likely not less because they were forbidden. The forbidden fruit thing. In addition to what you always hear about white women being easier to get along with (= dominate?) and how they are held up as the height of beauty.
Hello Abagond, I’m back after burying my grandmother down South. I’m still mourning the death of my grandmother. Now her daughter/my aunt is currently ill because of the shock of her mother’s death.
Thank you so much for posting this important article on the “pure white woman ideology.” It’s part and parcel of American culture that the ideal that upper middle class/upper class white anglo woman be on the pedestal above Blacks. It’s still the case.
Steph
Abagond I agree with you about the forbidden fruit.
Stephanie, welcome back! And thank you for the links to articles you sent me. They helped me write this post.
Abagond,
You’re welcome. The ideology of pure white womanhood requires the subordination of Blacks in order for white supremacy to go on as it has been for centuries. It’s still with us today in the form of unfair media treatment of Black and White women.
What say you?
Steph
It is crystal clear from the media in America that white women are seen as more beautiful than black women and their lives far more valuable.
The “allure” of the forbidden fruit:
The media, government, society, and popular culture decree the white woman as being the ultimate in human beauty, femininity, virtue and in moral superiority, ergo, they are forbidden by custom to mingle with “less desireable” elements of society and from the realms of business/politics/professions/academia/entertainment, for these things would sully what virtue upper middle/upper class white women have by virtue of their purity/femininity/moral superiority.
Black men and women are decreed as threats to the “sanctity” of “holy white womanhood”. Black women are competition to white women, i.e. the potential take their men away, while Black men could take away their “virtue”. Therefore, the white man have to protect his women from Blacks of both genders. In order to do so, segregation, formal and informal, media and cultural propaganda, discrimination, lynchings, prisons, etc. are utilized to this end.
Black men weren’t suppose to be familiar with white women on the pain of death. They weren’t suppose to look at posters of white female celebrities during Jim Crow. While thousands of Black women were violated during that period of time.
Abagond, white women, black men and black women didn’t invent the ideology of white womanhood. It’s white men who invented it in order to oppress Blacks, keep them forever subordinate, maintain inequality, and to cover up his guilt.
Stephanie B.
I think what drove Jim Crow were two things:
First, whites did not want to slip to the bottom of society after the slaves were freed.
Second, white men were afraid of losing “their” women to black men.
So they changed up the rules to keep blacks at the bottom.
All these ideas about white women that still live on grew out of that.
Stephanie: Thanks for your comments. They are making me go back and make the post better.
Abagond,
You’re welcome.
Steph
First, I would like to say great post. It is a shame that the ideal standard of beauty in America can still be attributed to white women. The problem with this idea is, so many white women seek surgery in order to have characteristics that are more common amoung black women (collagen insertions, breast enhancements, buttocks uplifts/injections). The list could probably go on and on. Each person needs to be happy with the body they were born with. Black women and all women must first learn to see their inner beauty before any man will see their true beauty.
Thanks. I have written about quite a few beautiful women and one thing that keeps coming up is that true beauty starts from the inside, not the outside.
I am a black american male and I say the reason why black men date white women is because they are infatuated with us and let us do what we want and BOY! Do they stick by you.But there is one thing that your not considering.White women may look nice when they are young but when they reach middle age they start to fall apart!!
Abagond,
That’s a good example. An affluent White woman towering over her Black servants in Africa. That’s reminincent of antebellum and segregationist times when affluent White women were freed from domestic and maternal duties. The “dirty” work is relegated to Blacks and other people of Color.
The whole purpose of affluent White women is to be an ornament to her husband or father and as symbol of Whiteness.
La Reyna
It was not the picture I had at first, but when I saw this one on someone’s blog I knew it would be perfect.
How come the rest us not commenting on the mythology of pure white womanhood? This is serious, for it sets the tone for race relations in America. The ideology of pure white womanhood determines how people of color are treated. White women are given white privilege, white rights, protection and safekeeping, and insurance protection from people of color. They are idealized as “good mothers” as opposed to “bad” single “Black teenage mothers” the media likes to stereotype whenever the issue of out of wedlock births or welfare comes up, ignoring the fact that more white women are on welfare or having out of wedlock babies as well. The media and society covers up sins done by white women.
Steph
Good question.
Interesting. Black womens refusal to take responsiblity, chose better mates, hold black men to a higher moral standard is the cause of the immediate suffering of modern day black women.
70% of black children are born out of wedlock but that’s white people’s fault?? Seriously, people must make the best choices possible in their own personal situations.
Castigating white people and holding on to anger from the past will do nothing to help modern day black women improve her plight.
How about the inner sexism shown by black men towards black women? How about those respecful images on BET, etc??? It’s not all the white people’s fault.
Look in the mirror and pull the beam outta your own eye first!!
Okay. Let’s not be hypocritical. There are sexists in every race, not just the black ones. Sexism exists since the beginning of time.
jm,
You troll. Please take a look in the mirror yourself!
jm:
Your style of argument is very common among whites: by blaming blacks for all their troubles it gets whites off the hook. It is a self-serving argument. It is too easy. Worse than that, it does not stand up:
1. The rates of illegitimacy among whites in America are as high as they were among blacks in the 1960s. So while black illegitimacy probably makes matters worse, it is not a root cause.
2. Sexism among black men is certainly no worse than it was among whites before the 1970s. Again, not a root cause.
3. Most black women do not have a wide choice of mates. It is not so much a choice between good husbands and bad husbands, but between having a husband or no husband at all. Look at the numbers: they are pretty shocking.
4. Whites are still racist against blacks and in ways that hurts blacks in terms of where they can live, what kind of education they can get, how much they can make, their chances of staying out of prison and so on. While the racism is not as bad as it used to be, but is still bad enough to matter.
jm:
Those disrespectful images of black women you see in hip hop videos are made by who and for who? When hip hop was still largely a black thing, those kind of images were the exception. Now that whites are the main consumers of hip hop, they are almost the rule. It is white dollars, not black dollars, that pays for those images.
Since the days of the minstrel shows, white Americans have paid to see blacks shown in disrespectful ways, and there have been black entertainers who have taken the money and did what whites wanted.
The reason you saw Halle Berry in “Monster’s Ball” is because Angela Bassett had too much self-respect as a black woman to take a part like that.
Abagond,
Once again, you set this racist troll staight. I wonder if he read your essay on why so few white men marry black women or the stereotypes of black women by whites. He probably doesn’t like it because he’s a racist.
Your refution of his racist/colorblind views are a refreshment to me. I couldn’t have put these words as I was mad at him for coming to this board and being hypocritical when it comes to illegitimacy, sexism, and disrespect of women.
Once again, thank you so much for putting him in his place.
Stephanie B.
I am white – but my parents raised me to judge people not by appearance – but by their actions. The result – my brother is married to a latin women, my sister to a black man. And while my husband is a redheaded blue eyed irish men – it was the man he was more than his looks that attracted me to him. It shocks me when people say dumb and racist things today. I wonder where they grew up, what rock did they live under. Mixed race children seem to be the norm these days. The days of a pure white anything are fast fading. My boys have blonde hair and blue eyes but…they are the minority.
And the sad thing is – in the days of Jim Crow – in their attempt to keep their women pure – they took lovers and mistresses and rejected their women. They were relegated to the status of womb -I would rather stand beside my man then have him put me on a pedestal.
And – on a side note: My niece (half black and half white) is stunningly beautiful. Hallie Berry watch out.
Davida,
I’ll admit, it’s not rare for me to see a white woman with her visibly black child around these parts (I live in New England) but they are completely outweighted by the white women I see with their unequivocally white children. Same with black folks, the vast majority still appear to have “monoracial” black kids.
So, offspring of black/white or any interracial union, for that matter, are a smallish but growing and visible minority. That being said, the visibility of such people will not quell the discomfort and contempt that many Americans have toward interracial relationships and products of such partnerships.
And yes, blond haired, blue eyed white kids have always been a minority in this country. Isn’t that why such attributes as seen as so gorgeous? Because of their rarity?
I live in San Francisco. Where I live interacial relationships are pretty normal and actually caucasin people are the minority. If you just take two of the cubicle rows where I sit…I am the only caucasin, the girl next to me is mixed, the guy behind me is in an interacial realtionship as is the women on the other side of me. And if you move out across the work floor the ratio to “minority” or mixed race people to “white” people remains atleast 3 to 1. I do know that people outside of the city react to my sister and her husband but i hope, with time, this will change.
Oh, no wonder, you live in San Fran. Interracial romance is quite the norm out in Cali (and in much of the West coast), it seems.
Please know that it’s not like that in much, or perhaps most, of the remainer of the country.
I believe that statistically whites make up the majority of San Fran, with East Asians making up a rather large minority. No?
i dont know about statistics. I do know in high school I was very much the minority – especially since I am not italien or irish. our senior photo was a sea of ethnic groups divide more by activity than race – jocks, bookish folks, band kids, autoshop dudes etc. but I could be wrong…Since I floated freely between groups I didnt pay much attention to race.
Recycled for further discussion.
I am “mixed race”, English/British, quater Jamaican, quater Grenaden, quater Greek. And i myself have experienced all kinds of racist stereotypical behavior, I believe in many typical caucasian familys today parents still have the same views until a coloured person comes into the family and this is how it lives on from each generation. Right or wrong?
I think racism is passed on by parents, but friends, television and education also play a part.
Typical multicult discourse here.
Assert something based entirely on conjecture, and anyone who disagrees is labeled a racist.
The only people that are racially obsessed here are you idiots. Black people are their own worst enemy and that is why they have been exploited over the centuries by a number of races. Easy pickings.
Gosh, the torrent of racist comments all of a sudden
Please if anyone today is having fits of apoplexy at seeing white women with black men, it is black women!
Well, Fran, the reason why the pure ww stereotype exists is because of white supremacy. In order for it to work, whites have to be on top at all times. This means that ww had to be the epitome of beauty and virtue and wm to be the epitome of manliness. All of it at the expense of Blacks of both genders.
Can you explain that?
La Reyna
Whats just saddening is watching the white guilt kick in if there’s a discussion on oppression in past and present. With all the evidence of how this society is arranged and how that came to be and all the imbalances today, you still have the gall to tell someone to get over it? Totally disregard the countless people who were forced, yes I said forced with a capitol friggin F, to bleed and sweat but them and their decedents were cut out of reaping most/all of the rewards. Its like telling the Indigenous people of America to shut up and get over it because its in the past and none of the people who killed and raped your ancestors are still around, even though the reservations are ghettos. Why does the self realization and empowerment of a downtrodden people make you so uncomfortable?
Gen,
Thank you so much for your comments. The people who come on this message board are in denial.
La Reyna
Wow..Gen’s comment was accurate!
The thing in which makes a white man desire his children to be purely of his race is simply racism. But not necessarily bigotry. It’s pride in your race. It really is stupid when people call you racist if you wouldn’t consider dating outside of your skin color. WTF? I as a white man wouldn’t consider it racist if a black man only wanted to date or have children within his race. What is it with this “let’s all mix our blood” and become a blur of races. One must remember why our races formed in the first place. Under the law we’re equal, but our skin tells a different story. Black men are physically stronger while white men have superior intelligence. Undeniable.
This post has NOTHING to do with supporting questionable racist notions (eg. ALL BM are physically strong, ALL WM have superior intelligence, ALL WW are the most beautiful/pure women, etc.).
Also, NO ONE is saying that you’re a racist for marrying someone of your own race. ANYONE, regardless of race, is entitled to their preferences in choosing who to date and/or marry.
What is being addressed is the ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE in American society that has historically trashed the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY OF BW for not conforming to White standards of beauty and femininity.
Gen: I love the way black people always bring up the “white guilt” comment when a white person defends his belief or race. Believe me when I say this, “White people do not suffer from this guilt complex” Lets get that loud and clear to you “Black racists” out there! Yes, we have our “white woman stereotype” That’s ours and we don’t have to change it because it angers a few people.
You mention rape, have a look in South Africa among black men. It’s a national sport here. You must see how many babies from 6 months to 8 years old are gang raped. Rape is inter-racial.
Self realization and empowerment are great! Just get on with it and stop making a fuss!
DENYING the TRUTH, doesn’t CHANGE THE TRUTH.
ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE(RS) (REGARDLESS of RACE/SEX) are STILL promoting attacks on the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMINININITY of BW and are affecting how BW are viewed/treated in American society TODAY.
The evidence of ANTI-BW RACIST/HATE can clearly be seen at ALL levels of American media culture and in some of the ANTI-BW RACIST comments posted on this blog. Honestly acknowledging this IGNORANT, IRRATIONAL, SICK mindset is the first step in helping to DESTROY it.
laromana. I’m not denying it and I do not give a hoot to your comment, but remember, you live in a white dominated country. Why should the majority cater exclusively to a minority? I think the only time you will be happy is when you live in a only black society. There is nothing stopping you from doing that, as their are many countries that are 100% black!
Wayne is a troll… don’t bother, laromona
Sorry, Kat. Do my comments rock your little “racist” boat! You all obviously prefer comments that run down white people on this blog. Have a chat with abagond, maybe he can make it a black only site, then all of you can have a great one sided chat and stir up the hatred!
You all???
The only one stirring up anything is you.
You really are a troll…Goodbye.
Thanks for the heads up, Kat. I won’t continue wasting my time.
Clearly, a village somewhere is missing its IRRATIONAL, SELF ABSORBED, ANTI-BLACK RACIST/HATER idiot and he really needs to return there ASAP.
Laromana, keep your head up. Those haters are at it again on the internet. I bet they
were the ones attacking President Obama’s daughter at Freerepublic over the weekend.
Those trolls are nothing but trouble and ignorance.
La Reyna
La Reyna:
“Ignorance” is a word I see so often on the internet. Your ignorance or mine?
W. said to La Reyna :
“Ignorance” is a word I see so often on the internet. Your ignorance or mine?
W.,
Since the shoe fits, WEAR IT.
L., Time for another FIX.
Funny,
white people spend so much time pushing the “Pure white woman” stereotype upon the world,
when these “pure white women” can be seen in strip clubs and on street corners shaking their asses.
The “Girls Gone Wild” tapes show nothing
but drunk, high, white women naked and
shaking their vaginas in the camera lens.
We are supposed to think of them as Mother
Mary? LOL
More like a bunch of loose pussy whores
with no morals themselves!
The stereotype that white people try to push
onto black women is what the white women
are REALLY like in reality!
Shows how white people will just lie and say ANYTHING about their “race” to make themselves look high and mighty!
Wow! Doesn’t take much to get some people out of their shell and show their true colours!
Your own people enslaved you for some trinkets. Please let’s not blame white people for all your faults. As I said on a earlier comment, rape is universal, so is war and hate!
history to make it sound like the white race is innocent! NONE of you are innocent.
No human is innocent.. blacks, Arabs, and whites enslaved blacks.. whites ended end in the Britain, France, the US and Brazil.. have a nice day.
Oh of course “white women” are so pure and superior!
That’s why they are in 90% of all pornos spreading their legs for everything and anything.
White women are slutty, with a complex.
Wayne Says:
Fri 17 Jul 2009 at 23:17:03
L., Time for another FIX.
W.,
Speak for yourself.
To Wayne:
I haven’t come across one white person that I know that eats or rolls in crap. You might find that on some porn vids. Which the majority come from the good ol’ USA.
Errr.. well there’s the Brazilian export 2 girls one cup. WARNING, it’s gross.
http://www.badongo.com/vid/568743
Then there is the Japanese fascination with poo.
A multi-cultural phenomenon…? They make me barf.
Uncle Milton
I think these video’s are created more for shock effect and that’s why people (all races)watch them because it’s so disgusting. How many people would allow someone to take a dump on them for couple of thousand dollars? Woman here in SA are selling their bodies for as little $5 – $15.
White women are not pure, they are gross.
As one poster mentioned, most white people eat their own feces and they play in human dung for fun.
These same people walk upon this earth acting like they are holy and superior when we can see them all over the internet rolling in poop.
White women are slutty if you ask me,
they use the fake purity image but it
is obviously a lie.
I think these obsessed skinheads need to keep their faces out of black women’s ovaries and look at themselves in the mirror.
Whites created the aids virus to kill all black people and yet you see whitey complaining as if black people created aids themselves! LOL
White girls act like sluts sleeping around but white men continue to push the false purity image of white women upon everyone.
Because whites just can’t live without their precious stereotypes and lies!
Saying black women are slutty and white women are pure! LOL
Yep, whitey hides the births of the white teens bbies and the white abortions, so they can keep the “pure white woman image” going.
They are so pathetic.
It’s all about insecurity and maintaining the white supremacist status quo by maintaining their cherish myths about white womanhood. They want people to worship whiteness so that they can justify oppressive policies such as racial profiling, welfare reform, etc. to keep blacks in line and in our “place.”
La Reyna
La Reyna
There is a place for everyone, if you don’t like whiteness, there is always the dark continent.
Ha ha. Did you have mean for breakfast? Blacks belong in America every bit as much as whites do. Both blacks and whites have worked to make the country what it is and both have fought and died for it. Your kind of thinking is what leads to genocide.
I’m not the one complaining about white woman and the sterotypes that you keep on mentioning! abagond, at the end of the day, you are just another sterotype, get my drift. Some people that have their own blogs eventually think they are gods of their little blogs!
but lets be truthful, a lot of black men keep up that ww putity shit by critisizing their own women and upholding ww.wayne, what i would like to know is why ww will have an out of wedlock baby by a bm but abort an out of wedlock baby by a wm? wayne your ww hate you. they want bm so bad its almost ridiculous. why? is it your racist attitudes? or are you just lame period? why are your ww running from you in droves??
jasmine
Your truth is just a whole lot of bull, but keep on thinking that if it makes you happy.
wayne you’re a fool.
hmmm…i must say that some people are producing rather asenine comments – especially the nazi ones!
although im a bit lost as to whether wayne is in the states or SA???
Jasmine, your comment also states that black men are leaving black woman in droves. Must be tough on you!
Jr, thanks for the compliment.
therighttoparty, this site is full of nazi’s, black and white. SA, what’s the difference anyway?
Wayne,
STFU!
This is from La Reyna
Thanks La Reyna, and no doubt from a few other’s in this click too.
The “pure white woman” thing came about because of property rights. It started in the upper classes in order to protect inheritance. After all, if your woman had been fooling around before or after marriage then how would you know which children were REALLY yours? So you locked her up, preached virginity until marriage, and fidelity in marriage, and beat her to death if she slipped up.
This was about white mens’ rights, basically. White women were fools to go along with it for as long as they did. A little flattery goes a long way…
I have to be honest , I love hanging out with only white girls & watching & learning from them how they date black men its interesting how they stick by the black man & let him do whatever he wants this is mainly why many black men go after white girls they’re too easy …
but i love been easy & Passive toward my black man & He loves it & I’m Mixed Black,White & Native American , But I Go as Native American Or Bi-racial White , I Don’t really claim my Black Culture or Race .
I love how abagond completely shut up and discontinued the conversation when people started making HORRIBLE racist remarks against white people. What so now you are just going to completely make black people look like innocent, perfect people that are morally correct and arent racist? Well im sorry you started this blog and talked about how white people are “SOOO” racist yet you think its perfectly fine for black people to call white people whores and what not? lol you really are a piece of work abagond. you really are.
Yeah…we quite like Abagond as well!!! LOL
Erin:
This thread is about white stereotypes, so whites are going to get most of the heat. There are other posts where people say terrible things about blacks (and even on this thread Wayne was not particularly nice). I believe in letting people have their say so long as they remain somewhat civil.
For myself, I never said blacks were perfect. Nor even that whites are to blame for everything. But in America whites own most of the media, therefore we hear all about what is wrong with black people and precious little about what is wrong with white people. So, yes, I am more likely to point out the ills of one rather than the other.
The reason no one cares if Black women go missing is because it’s always assumed she’s prostitute or of low moral character and that her lifestyle choices somehow contributed to her being missing.
Whereas with white women the finger is always pointed outward, WHO kidnapped her?, WHO has taken her?, WHAT MAD MAN HASDONE THIS? The white woman is always a victim and therefore always blameless in whatever circumstance befall her. The Black woman is never given that benefit of a doubt.
The New York police do not look for black women age 21 or over because they are assumed to be with their boyfriends – even when the parents say she does not have a boyfriend. Likewise the press will not report it because the police do not take it seriously.
A good example:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/romona-moore-a-missing-black-woman/
Ive NEVER thought white women were pure or beautiful really.
abagond says:
The New York police do not look for black women age 21 or over because they are assumed to be with their boyfriends – even when the parents say she does not have a boyfriend. Likewise the press will not report it because the police do not take it seriously.
A good example:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/romona-moore-a-missing-black-woman/
laromana says,
It’s because ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE has led to DEVALUING BW and NOT PROTECTING their CIVIL RIGHTS under the LAW, that this mindset MUST BE CHALLENGED/DESTROYED.
As a BW I DESERVE the SAME PROTECTION from the laws/law enforcement as NON-BW. I SHOULD NOT be in MORE DANGER of being HARMED JUST BECAUSE I’m a BW and NOT a NON-BW.
This is an OUTRAGE and MUST CHANGE!
scarlet o hara
u must have guessed from my name that i live in the “dark continent” according to wayne,. you know,there really isn’t much you or i can do to change the way people think.For every black M/W doing the right thing,it takes just one wrong from a black M/W to continue to make any racist feel they are justified in the way they judge people.i always heard of racism but never really understood what it meant until i traveled outside to Europe and later to America. I can tell you its a very painful experience to be judged solely for my skin colour. In both countries the experience was similar. Now i know and begin to understand. so sad…….
I live in England, believe me the notion that white women are pure is bollocks!!
If you want to see depravity check out what white English women get up to.
I used to respect England and what it stood for, that is, until i came here.
White women are the most promiscuous race of women in the world and I’m sick and tired of being fed a falsehood about these people.
England has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Europe, guess who leads the pack. White British women. They will sleep with anything, that is why their men are starting to date and marry foreign and ethnic girls from more demure and conservative cultures.
They can fake tan all the want as is prevalent in England, if they are so bloody pure why the hell are they butchering themselves to look different and ethnic.
The forward momentum of blacks and people of color is fast gaining speed, the white beauty nonsense will never undermine that.
@MerriMay
That’s true on a number of levels
White women like that they are held in high regard or trophied by Blacks, Whites and other races alike. Isn’t that true??????????????
Man I’d gladly switch places with white women just to get some of their oppression LOL!
@therighttoparty
Quite the hypocrite aren’t you?? Telling ERE to simmer down, yet in this link below:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/halle-berry-is-not-the-most-beautiful-black-woman-in-the-world/#comment-29929
comment #265 you take issue with me asking a blogger to calm down.Mmm pot calling the kette black.
it is partly true but you seem to portray black women as innocent in a sense.
i can see your point however you forgot america is a white country (after their invasion). i wouldnt go to africa and complain i wasn’t treated the same as it wasn’t my country i would understand being treated as a second class citizen
White country? You see? That is where your grape just fell from the vine Rach. This country belongs to every citizen here. No matter what there ethnicity is… You have, as so many others that come here, proven that the biggest problem lies in the fact that too many whites feel that this is THEIR country and THEIRS alone..NEWSFLASH!! THIS is not a white country!!!!
shakes head …….
Rach said:
“i can see your point however you forgot america is a white country (after their invasion). i wouldnt go to africa and complain i wasn’t treated the same as it wasn’t my country i would understand being treated as a second class citizen”
How charming: blacks fight and die for America but it is not their country. They should not complain if they are not treated the same as whites, they should expect to be treated as second-class citizens.
Do you understand how utterly, completely racist that is?
Yet another racist white American…
First of all, America is not even a country: it’s the western hemisphere.
Well whether it’s a country, or the western hemishphere. It does not belong only to WHITE people!!!!
“America” in the English language means, nine times out of ten, the United States of America.
“America” in the English language means, nine times out of ten, the United States of America.
Yes, otherwise you yanks would be called United Statians, LOL!
I know this is an older post but I had to say this in reference to some of the comments made above regarding white women and their participation in the porn industry as well as more mainstream soft porn such as Girls Gone Wild:
Were it not for the racist stereotype regarding the so-called purity of white women–these industries as they are now would not exist!
Girls Gone Wild: the primary draw of it is supposed white “girl next door” types showing it all as a result of alcohol/partying. In the continuous commercials shown on late night TV, they even talk about how these girls could be in your college course or your next door neighbor. Its the idea of the absolutely pure “sullying” itself.
The same mindset is behind the porn industry’s fixation with white women and black men together—which statistically have been shown to be primarily a fantasy of white men.
Keep in mind that no matter what type of pornographic images a white woman might participate in, those images always serve to underscore her supposed status as innately pure rather than degrade her status as innately “pure” . This is because her supposedly pure status is the primary factor of titillation that enables white males to enjoy seeing that purity “degraded”——contrast this with the pornographic images of women of color, specifically black women, where no matter how soft the erotic images are, it is white culture’s belief of her animalistic nature and innate wanton self that provide the titillation factor.
No matter what she does, no matter how cracked out she may look, no matter how many men of ANY color she may sleep with, a white woman is always viewed by white society as being a flower, perhaps a fallen flower but still on that pedestal of white womanhood when it concerns the external notion of whiteness(probably not in the inner circle of whiteness–that internal world absent of people of color). No matter what she does, no matter how sexually and morally uptight she is, no matter how virginal she is– a black woman is always viewed by white culture as a slut. This is one primary reason why there will never be a black version of girls gone wild ——there would be no titillation factor because american society believes black women to be loose anyway. Even more unfortunate and sad—this is why missing black girls are often not given the media attention of missing white girls. In order for American culture to care about someone in the media there has to be this picture painted of innocence…evidently black women are whores from the womb according to the subconscious mythos of white racism.
Excellent comment, about white girls and black girls going wild and going missing.
No matter what she does, no matter how sexually and morally uptight she is, no matter how virginal she is– a black woman is always viewed by white culture as a slut.
This is horrible.
In other words, a black woman must behave more morally uptight than a white woman to avoid “slut” stereotype?
I am still disgusted with those abusively angry prudes who DID NOT tell me that the models I was looking up to draw “had to be White”, but instead called the models “obscene”, “pornographic” and “gross” just because they were Japanese, and not White, according to the prudes’ preference. Those thugs owe me an apology for having lied to me through their teeth!
Just discovered the blog and it. is. awesome.
Had to jump in and say: believe it or not, there are actually not one, but two, nonwhite GGW videos. Yeah, I looked it up. The first one— and by the way, I’m so busy shaking my head and facepalming that I can hardly type this— the first one was called “GGW: Doggy Style,” and yes, it was produced by Snoop Dogg.
I found an article online about some court case he got sucked up in 2003 while making the video with the GGW sleaze-in-chief, Joe Francis (underage girls, AGAIN). Best/worst part: “He [Snoop] has also said that he hopes to expand the genre’s appeal so that Girls Gone Wild will include more women of color. ‘If you notice, there hasn’t been no girls of (ethnicity) at all on none of those tapes,’ he told the Associated Press. ‘No black girls, no Spanish girls … all white girls, and that ain’t cool, because white girls ain’t the only hos that get wild.’ “
Um, thanks Snoop!
And yet, for some reason, I just can’t stay mad at that guy.
And then they apparently did another one called— get ready to facepalm again— “GGW: Funkin’ at Freaknik.” Three and a half stars on Amazon. I’m not about to get into that nasty mess, but from a quick glance at the comments, it looks like mostly happy black guys, happy white fetishists (I caught a glimpse of the phrase “into black chicks”), and unhappy dudes who felt not enough booty was shown. (Which: is it less booty than other GGW videos, I wonder?)
@karinova
really? Why snoop why?
Oh and I heard on the Tyra Banks show and the GGW guy said how black women wouldn’t go wild for him
“America” in the English language means, nine times out of ten, the United States of America.
For someone who’s usually so in tune to the racist and imperialist undercurrents of language, Abagond, I’m surprised you missed that one.
9 times out of 10 in English? Yeah, because the residents of the U.S. consider themselves to be the real and only Americans – these same residents, I might add, who harass the rest of the Americans every time we cross their border. But that’s probably because of the huge number of terrorist attacks that Brazilians, Argentineans, Colombians and Mexicans have carried out on “American” soil… right?
Very True. What that minstrel-esque dumbass Snoop Dogg forgets is that white girls can get away with that stupid shit without a stain. There is a reason why GGW was all white, as demeaning as it is.
These black men have no respect for black women– none!! And I am sick of it. Scratch that– men in general have no respect for women.
I apologize for cursing but this blatant degredation of women is appalling.
Women are PEOPLE. not props. Why must I repeat the obvious?
MerriMay,then I’d LOVE to meet some of those white U.K.. lasses!!!!
I remember my dad saying that my auntie hated being so dark skinned because she thought it was ugly (my family is Native) when the rest of us wish we were darker (I would say I’m medium toned). Obviously this shows that my darker skinned auntie must have experienced more hurt on account of her skin colour than I would have experienced. I know Native people who wish they were white – not because they see them as beautiful, or that they’re “more intelligent”, or whatever, they want to be white because then it would end the hurt and discrimination they experience.
White people just don’t know. I had a middle-aged, white, male, sociology professor tell a group of Native students (mostly female) that racism and sexism doesn’t exist anymore! That was a mistake because he heard countless examples of racism and sexism that day. Racism is an experience they just can’t relate to. They can’t understand the hurt. It doesn’t make sense to them so they will say things like it doesn’t exist, or we should just get over it because it’s in the past, or that we’re the ones being racist.
Being Native causes me much anxiety to me when I’m off reserve. My husband (who is a Native police officer) and I felt so much anxiety when we were looking for a house off reserve to buy because we thought the people wouldn’t want to sell their house to a couple of indians. I attempted to mask my Native background by curling my hair, and dressing up as White people seem to do (and who wouldn’t after 23 years of discrimination). Jacob is constantly accused of stealing, or followed by security because he’s a big Native guy… So I’ve just sort of accepted that white people won’t know what racism is like and I just try not to think about it.
One thing I don’t understand is how minorities can be racist to other minorities. I know native people who hate Black people. It’s most likely due to the media’s depiction of minorities because there are very few Black people in this area and even less other minorities.
@Rachel I feel for you.
I remeber being in History class and the topic was on Black History and and the teacher asked the class a question of what Dr. King’s speech brought an end to and a boy who is Indian (As in from India) said it brought an end to racism.
And evey person of colour was like WTF racism is alive and kicking and if you don’t see that then you are sipping the kool-aid. I hate when people say that.
I know I think that people of colour should work together to end racism because we are in the same boat, yes what I go through as a Black woman will differ from what you go through as a Native American woman but the effects can be damaging all together.
I agree.
A theory I have relates to the Indian guy you spoke of. I notice that some minorities don’t seem to notice racism. My friends (one Black and one Middle Eastern) don’t seem to notice that people are rude to them and not rude to other White people. My theory is that because they grew up surrounded by white people, they just get used to it. Whereas I can see it because I grew up surrounded by Native people and I can tell the difference between being treated normally or with discrimination.
It is truly saddening to know that some people can be so RACIST, but regardless of all the stupid prejudice people who live out there, to all of you,don’t let their comments you..whatever they say is their problem. I don’t let it affect me.
I agree that racism is still prevalent but I don’t think it’s as bad as it was during the Jim Crow era! I still find the white female pedestal to be part of the residual white supremacist ideology!
I think racism will never leave this country because the world’s trash keeps coming to our shores. I’m referring to the USA.
I believe racism is everywhere and it’s only really problematic depending on your immediate area.
“But even now some white people are still not comfortable seeing a black man with a white woman.”
…as if black women are okay with it.
No, as if that is what the post is about.
At first I didn’t even get this blog since I always saw white, especially northern European women as the loosest of all. It always seemed to me that the further you go north the wilder they get and the less self-respect they seem to have.
It’s unbelievable what some British and Scandinavian women can down in just a couple of hours during their binge drinking tours. Then they scour the bars and clubs for equally stupid males but usually end up as swamp donkeys. I’ve seen the most disgusting things in the streets in the UK and Denmark… anyway spare me the details. For those interested you might find some inspiration on youtube…
I don’t believe the wearers are pure or virginal i think most of it is for show.
Or parents?
Hence the concept of “technical” virginity.
All in all, white women are not “pure” in a way that they are nicer, “more virginal” (whatever that means exactly) etc than other women. It’s just a stereotype. And like with any other stereotype, there are a lot of people who believe it’s true.
^Yeah, not sure I get this post. Does it still apply today? Because white men seem more than willing to denigrate white women. Only a few women are seen as “pure,” and most white women are not since women in general have become more sexually liberated.
I think whites are just against black-white relations in general; few want their white sons marrying black women either.
Femi & Natasha:
That is the thing about stereotypes – they are not true. This particular one, though, was much stronger back in Jim Crow times than it is now (think about Emmett Till, killed in 1955 for whistling at a white woman). Even so, whites still seem to think black women are looser than white women (video vixens do not help matters) – while blacks seem to think the opposite is true (“Girls Gone Wild” does not help).
abagond, you wrote:
That is the thing about stereotypes – they are not true.
Really? It’s far more accurate to state that stereotypes contain an element of truth that is sometimes distorted.
But clearly no stereotype can characterize an entire group unless the group is constructed on the specific qualities are used to define it. Boxers in a weight class, for example.
If you were to stereotype the whites who live in Greenwich, CT as people who live in the land of pink and green, you will get no argument from anyone familiar with the town.
Some factors are visible. As for the sexual availability of women, well, it’s clear that almost every woman makes herself available to at least a few men. But personal style varies.
But one racial difference is true: white middle-class women rarely have children without getting married. Call this stereotypical behavior if you like.
^Even so, whites still seem to think black women are looser than white women (video vixens do not help matters)
That might be true, but I don’t think whites believe white women are not loose. Far from it. The ones I know see women (read: white women), as easy. Having sex on the second or third date is “normal.” For every video vixen there are Playboy women, pornstars, and the woman that everyone has done, and they are white.
My SO actually always thought the opposite: that white women were easier to bed, and black women weren’t because many of them come from Christian backgrounds, and if not they make you “work for it (whatever that means).” He was surprised to read about the Jezebel stereotype because he’d never heard of anything like it before. Maybe this is a generational thing? The people I know are from mid-20s to early 30s.
But one racial difference is true: white middle-class women rarely have children without getting married. Call this stereotypical behavior if you like.
This is the same for black women who grew up upper middle class to upper class they usually get married first or dont have any kids.
^Don’t bother reasoning with no_slappz. He will say anything to put black people down.
@Natasha W
My SO actually always thought the opposite: that white women were easier to bed, and black women weren’t because many of them come from Christian backgrounds, and if not they make you “work for it (whatever that means).”
Actually, this might be a stereotype I share too. I never thought about it (I assumed most of the modern women are, more or less, loose- well, not in a bad way, but definitely looser than their mothers and grandmothers). I never thought about it as a function of race. But then I started reading various Internet resources, blogs, etc. and I found out black women tend to be more traditional (= opposite of loose). Not all of them, but “I am waiting till marriage” is something I saw more black girls wrote, than white girls.
So I wondered why. Being more religious might be the answer, but I assumed it was something else. After learning about Jezbel stereotype, I thought that was it: black girls and women are seen as oversexed and loose. So I assumed many black women want to work against that stereotype and are more careful about what they do. What I’m saying is, a white girl can dress provocatively and not to be labelled “slut”. Black girl might not have that choice.
I might be completely wrong here, but that’s what I thought.
I was looking at the contexts website and found this post of magazine where all the white women are clothed and pure looking and the black women they are photoed with are nude or semi-nude.
http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/09/04/nsfw-more-clothed-white-womannaked-black-woman-images/
@ Aiyo
Had to clear the red mist before I responded. Wow! You live in England right? Remember the Marks and Spencers ads with the biracial black model Noemie Lenoir, the only one prancing about in her underwear while Twiggy and Erin O’ Connor are in respectable tweeds! One one hand I thought, My God she’s hot, what a knockout figure, she’s been in Sports illustrusted after all. She’s an underwear model.
Then again there’s an implicit message there I hadn’t thought too much about. Wow. SMDH.
Will try to dig it up.
@ Merrimay .. I know it wasn’t directed at me but I also live in england and I am familiar with the MS ads.
I guess its one of those subliminal message things because I honestly never though about it before, but now that you mention it…
@MerriMay
Yeah I remember that ad, she is pretty and everything but then seeing photos like the the ones in the link make you think.
Also the pic model with the white woman and the African men below is from Britain’s Next Top Model. Yep, good ol’ Brits.
The new trend now is the purity rings.
Hopefully, they’ll save them as adorments for when they get their genitals pierced in college.
But one racial difference is true: white middle-class women rarely have children without getting married. Call this stereotypical behavior if you like.
As Leaveum pointed out, this is class behavior, not race. White trash rarely waits until its married to start shurning out the lil’uns.
Even so, whites still seem to think black women are looser than white women (video vixens do not help matters) – while blacks seem to think the opposite is true (“Girls Gone Wild” does not help).
This is human behavior. The women of the Despised Other are generally considered to be looser. I’ll give you one guess as to why.
Aiyo,
I saw those photos on another website. I was speechless. At least for those photos, the “pure white woman” stereotype applies. The photographer must be nuts if he thought that would go over well. Some of the photos are very clear as to what are they supposed to mean.
On the other hand, for all the talk about Europe being more accepting of interracial relationships, they sure seem to have lots of ideas that are essentially “black=dark and seductive, white=light and modest.”
Mira,
Being more religious might be the answer, but I assumed it was something else. After learning about Jezbel stereotype, I thought that was it: black girls and women are seen as oversexed and loose. So I assumed many black women want to work against that stereotype and are more careful about what they do. What I’m saying is, a white girl can dress provocatively and not to be labelled “slut”. Black girl might not have that choice.
That might definitely be a part of it. People come down harder on blacks for the same behavior exhibited by whites, and blacks have to go above and beyond to be granted the same respect.
But I don’t think that’s all. Black parents, even in some of the lower-class families, tend to have more traditional values. They are more likely to use physical discipline than are white parents, for example. So they pass on traditional values to their children, and that includes views on sex. Of course this doesn’t apply to all, but a good portion of them.
here is an advert I found for Israeli fashion house Irit.
http://community.livejournal.com/blackfolk/4917337.html
words fail me….
But I don’t think that’s all. Black parents, even in some of the lower-class families, tend to have more traditional values.
Yes, this is definitely part of the answer.
This is disgusting to watch.
But why wouldn’t someone make a “reversed” fashion show: with black models fully dressed and white semi naked? Or black model being served by her white servants?
I’m not saying it’s the solution. BUT!, if someone objects (or at least claim it’s “strange and unsettling for some reason”)- we’d have a lot of material for a discussion.
you know sometimes I feel I get so jaded…. I hate the way blue eyes and blonde hair is portrayed as being ‘perfect’.
It just makes me so mad, I feel like shouting “ok I get it enough!- I (and the vast majority of the world) will never be that perfection”.
I have to agree that generally speaking ‘stereotypes’ are NOT true, is perhaps the best way to look at them
What usually happens is members of the ‘in-group’ will generally highlight some aspect or behaviour, whether imagined or real, and then foist that upon the ‘out-group’
to ‘denigrate’ them.
Isolating the definition of ‘stereotype’ to the highlighting of behaviours, somewhat ‘distorts’ what a stereotype is, in the same way that stereotypes do ‘distorts’ reality
Blue eyes are often regarded as the most beautiful. It’s not just the media- prehistoric people thought that too. Blue eyes (and green or gray for that matter) don’t serve any evolutionary purpose. They are more sensitive. While it’s not terrible, it’s definitely a disadvantage in comparing to dark eyes. Yet, they still exist. There are many blue eyed people in the world. Why? The answer is simple- enough number of people (from prehistory till today) found them attractive and wanted to have children with blue eyed people.
As for blonde hair… I don’t know what to say. Maybe prehistoric humans found it attractive, I don’t know. In any case, I’m sick of that stereotype too. True, today we have “evil blonde bi.ch” stereotype, but for some reason, blue eyes and blonde hair is still regarded (by some) as the most beautiful- at least for women. I am sure it’s different for men. Dark(er) white guys were always considered to be more attractive. Right? Right?
Oh, but they (guys) are also considered more handsome if they have blue or green eyes.
@Lucia
Those pic reminds me of that Disney movie Fantasia with the deleted scene.
You know what’s interesting? I remember that scene (I am not sure if it’s censored or not here, but I guess it isn’t, since I remember it)- I understood it was a scene of a couple- a guy and his girlfriend.
I never got the memo that blonde hair/blue eyes was most beautiful. Or that light skin was better than dark skin. Looking back, my parents did a good job of making sure my siblings and I were in places that portrayed blackness and black people in positive ways. To this day, I still don’t get it. Blonde hair is an attribute just like any. Some people look good with it, some do not. It does not confer beauty or loveliness. Eye color… rarely notice it.
Mira,
With regard to what you say I would add that probably:
1. Blue Eyed people probably created the ‘stereotype’
2. Blonde’s probably created the idea
With the latter it has been suggested by some that blonde approximate closer to White/European/Caucasian whereas brunettes etc variant denotes an ‘admixture’
You are right, Natasha. But I guess Lucia and I were talking about “beauty standards” as portrayed in media, etc. At least that’s how I understand it. Of course, hair and eye colour are just attributes. Same goes (don’t shoot me) for skin colour. Or at least it should be like that. There are beautiful people, there are ugly people, but a) what is beautiful/ugly to me doesn’t mean it would be the same for you, and b) no healthy physical attribute is “ugly” on itself. Dark skin is not ugly. Kinky hair is not ugly. Round hips are not ugly. (same goes for light skin, blue eyes, skinny body type etc).
@ Lucia
I get that feeling as well in London, but I have NEVER looked at blue eyed blond people and felt dwarfed in looks, ever! Those are definitely European ideals. I’m sorry I just don’t understand it. I don’t even regard it as perfection. They are no more or less beautiful than dark hair and dark eyes. Utter hogwash!
Mira, I wasn’t disagreeing with you or lucia. I just never got that message, and I’m glad I didn’t. I feel sad for children that are receiving this message though. Healthy self-esteem is one of the most important characteristics to have, IMO. I don’t think I’ll let my children watch TV other than cartoons.
Mira
You are right about favoring Blue eyes since ancient times. In Scandinavia there are legends that when blue eyes and blond hair first started to appear some people wanted to kill them as freaks, but the chieftains kept them alive because they believed it was a sign from the gods. In ancient Egypt the opposite is true, Redheads were almost always sacrificed because it was believed they were cursed by the god Seth.
@J
1. Blue Eyed people probably created the ’stereotype’
Not sure. But the fact blue eyed people exist in the first place shows their eye colour is attractive (it’s just a mutation like any other- if nobody found it attractive there would be no blue eyed people anymore, except when given mutation occurs).
Of course, media helps this stereotype by often choosing blue or green eyed people for celebrities (we all know being talented for acting is not enough to became a movie star- or, shall I say, being attractive IS enough regardless of talent).
Personally, I never understood the blue eyes obsession. I find dark eyes more attractive. But that’s just me.
With the latter it has been suggested by some that blonde approximate closer to White/European/Caucasian whereas brunettes etc variant denotes an ‘admixture’
Define “admixture”.
We are all Africans, in a way that Homo Sapiens Sapiens originated in Africa. It is believed human features changed with the climate (more or less). So, further the north humans went, became lighter and lighter.
Or do you believe that all dark Caucasians had frequent mixing with black Africans?
I never understood the whole blonde, blue-eyed white ideal. Personally, the most beautiful women I’ve known have been dark eyed with dark hair.
@Natasha W
Mira, I wasn’t disagreeing with you or lucia. I just never got that message, and I’m glad I didn’t.
Hey, I know you didn’t. I just wanted to say, sadly, this image is pushed by media. You were lucky to have smart parents who didn’t let media image corrupt your thinking.
@MerriMay
Those are definitely European ideals. I’m sorry I just don’t understand it.
Well, I am an European, and I don’t understand it either. Then again, I am dark eyed and dark haired, so maybe that’s why.
The problem is that this image is pushed as the beauty ideal for everyone.
But the fact blue eyed people exist in the first place shows their eye colour is attractive (it’s just a mutation like any other- if nobody found it attractive there would be no blue eyed people anymore, except when given mutation occurs).
That’s not necessarily how evolution works, Mira. People could find it ugly as hell, but blue-eyed individuals could still out-compete brown-eyed individuals in some environmental situations, which would lead to the gene being spread irregardless.
People don’t just have sex with the folks they find attractive, you know.
True Thad, true. But I don’t know of an environmental situation that favours blye (light) eyes- no seriously. The first thing that comes to mind- climate- doesn’t seem to be the answer (though true, blue eyes are more common on the north)- but there are many dark hair/light eyes combinations, in “warmer” climate.
Wait… You are writing this because you’re blue eyed. Admit it!
With regard to:
But the fact blue eyed people exist in the first place shows their eye colour is attractive
Just to say for it to become ‘attractive’ some group must have deemed it so, ‘existence by itself is not enough, unless I have missed the point.
And again, with regard to:
“We are all Africans, in a way that Homo Sapiens Sapiens originated in Africa. It is believed human features changed with the climate (more or less). So, further the north humans went, became lighter and lighter.
Or do you believe that all dark Caucasians had frequent mixing with black Africans”?
I was not quite looking at it this way, but it is clear within European tradition that blonde, blue eyed represented the archetypal White/Caucasian. Is this not what the Nazi’s believed, even though Hitler was very dark.
Again Mathilda’s blog will be instructive when she discusses who is an Aryan in the ‘truest’ sense of the word.
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/will-some-one-tell-the-white-supremacists-to-stop-using-the-word-aryan-incorrectly/
@ leigh204
I hear ya! *high five*
I am blue-eyed and I’ve never found blue eyes to be particularly pretty (green and brown are my faves).
There’s some speculation that light-colored eyes are slightly better at seeing in low-light environments.
The mutation seems to have arisen only about 10,000 years ago in the region of the Black sea, however, so it would be strange if it had some evolutionary value.
There’s some speculation that light-colored eyes are slightly better at seeing in low-light environments.
Ok, that would make sense, geographically. But why can they be found all over the Europe (if not world)?
Also: (unrelated) who created “hot dark haired blue eyed guy” stereotype?
I believe green eyes are the rarest of the common colours. My mother is green eyed.
She said she always had a problem with her eyes being way to sensitive to the sun.
The mutation seems to have arisen only about 10,000 years ago in the region of the Black sea, however, so it would be strange if it had some evolutionary value.
That was my point, Thad. It serves no purpose. But it’s a mutation (well, it started as such). So how come there are so many blue eyed people on the world? They (you
) obviously have something that make other people want have babies with them.
“Ok, that would make sense, geographically. But why can they be found all over the Europe (if not world)?”
Probably for the same reason black people or dark skinned people can be found in Northern Europe.
I didn’t know black people can be found in Northern Europe. I mean, the original Northern Europeans, not recent immigrants.
Once a mutation starts and spreads it is hard to get it to stop, even when it is bad. I think blue eyes are attractive because their rare, a lot people that are attracted to them would probably agree.
“I didn’t know black people can be found in Northern Europe. I mean, the original Northern Europeans, not recent immigrants.”
That was my point, genes spread through immigration, the Scandinavians aka Vikings were world travelers in their time.
Once a mutation starts and spreads it is hard to get it to stop, even when it is bad.
Mutation can’t “spread” on its own. It spreads only when people (or animals) procreate. And you need sex for that.
I think blue eyes are attractive because their rare, a lot people that are attracted to them would probably agree.
Of course, them being rare and exotic is definitely one of the answers.
“Mutation can’t “spread” on its own. It spreads only when people (or animals) procreate. And you need sex for that.”
LOL yes totally agree, sorry if it seemed like I suggested otherwise.
That was my point, genes spread through immigration, the Scandinavians aka Vikings were world travelers in their time.
Good for Vikings, but they came to the picture quite late. We’re talking about prehistory here.
Well I don’t think blue eyes had spread to far out of Europe in prehistory. The original mutation was heavy in Northern Europe, but it would no surprise if some of that mutation went south.
So how come there are so many blue eyed people on the world? They (you ) obviously have something that make other people want have babies with them.
Actually, no. Blue-eyed people have dropped dramatically in the States over the last century, going from around 60% to 30%. And it’s almost all due to intermixture.
No proof at all, then, that people find eye color to be determinative with regards to whom they have sex with.
Probably for the same reason black people or dark skinned people can be found in Northern Europe.
Nope. Skin color actually has proven adaptative value. Eye color doesn’t. Eye color could just be one of those things: a mutation which has no real value but which got established due to genetic drift.
Mutation can’t “spread” on its own. It spreads only when people (or animals) procreate. And you need sex for that.
Correct. And never once have I heard a man say “Oh, I won’t f$%# her! She has [whatever] colored eyes!”
Oh Thad. But I’ve heard many times women say: “I want to have sex with him! He has such beautiful blue eyes!”
No kidding. Men would go with anyone who wants them, it’s not a secret.
“At the heart of all this was the raw fear in the hearts of white men that black men would take all of “their” women”
Believe it or not abagond, but Marijuana prohibition started this way. White men believed that black and Mexican men would smoke Marijuana and play their “devil Jazz music,” become crazy with animal lust, and rape all their white women. Prohibition of Marijuana started with racism, you should do a post on that.
Oh Thad. But I’ve heard many times women say: “I want to have sex with him! He has such beautiful blue eyes!”
Sure. But is he’s poor and a brown-eyed millionaire showed up…
A million doesn’t go that far nowadays. I have a large family so a man with millions, possibly billions would have to do! Preferrably elderly with a chronic heart condition.
”
@ Lucia
I get that feeling as well in London, but I have NEVER looked at blue eyed blond people and felt dwarfed in looks, ever! Those are definitely European ideals. I’m sorry I just don’t understand it. I don’t even regard it as perfection. They are no more or less beautiful than dark hair and dark eyes. Utter hogwash!”
@ Merrimay and everyone else (lol)
I don’t know whether its because I’m young but as much as it shames me to say it, I sometimes do feel dwarfed in looks by these blonde haired blue eyed women. I always thought of myself as strong and confident but I sometimes get lapses where I do get that horrible lingering feeling of inferiority. Its embarrassing to admit I feel that at times way but I guess being bombarded by this beauty ideal has an effect (but i guess thats the aim of it right? to make everyone feel like rubbish…)
In comparison I do have it ‘better’ than other in terms of media representation- i’m olive skinned and I have long hair (i’m around a 1/4 black 3/4 southern europen)- I mostly look Italian. but itn effects me even.
I wish I was a little stronger maybe I will be with age.
Leigh said:
“I never understood the whole blonde, blue-eyed white ideal.”
Same here. Like Natasha, I did not get that memo either. I do not see what is supposed to be so good-looking about it.
Lucia
Dont let this so called ideal standard of beauty get you down. From your description it sounds like your quite beautiful. In my opinion Italian men and women are quite attractive because of their features. Some women tan to get the olive skin you were born with. And many women pay for long hair. Just because someone has blonde hair and blue eyes doesnt mean they are automatically more beautiful. Im not saying blonde hair isnt beautiful, its just not the only thing that is beautiful.
@Leaveumthinking:
Co-sign. This reminds me of the Indian Vogue cover with model, Gemma Ward, posing with some gorgeous East Indian models in one of abagond’s posts. It’s subjective, but I think those women look way better than Gemma.
http://fashionesedaily.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/vogueindia384.jpg
Same here. Like Natasha, I did not get that memo either. I do not see what is supposed to be so good-looking about it.
This is a good thing. We (well, the world) need more men who “did not get that memo”. Not because blondes & blue eyed women should be seen as ugly, but because it’s good to have more men who appreciate different kinds of beauty.
leigh204,
True. Gemma’s beauty pales in comparison with these women.
I like Gemma, but she is more of a high fashion/runway model than a commercial model. Which is apparent from that cover where they are trying to make her look “ordinary” pretty, but her eyes are far apart, nose is button-shaped, and face is round. Her appeal is that she is not classically beautiful, and can be made to look very “odd.”
Mira,
This is a good thing. We (well, the world) need more men who “did not get that memo”. Not because blondes & blue eyed women should be seen as ugly, but because it’s good to have more men who appreciate different kinds of beauty.
People need to be more independent-minded and not buy into the propaganda. The media can’t sell you what you aren’t buying.
Also, I could be wrong, but I don’t think most black people receive this message. Unless they venture into the “white” world, where most of their associates are white or they have to compete with white people. The ideal for black people is light skin, long hair and/or curly hair.
Thanks for the explanation, Natasha! I thought white ideal of beauty was forced on everybody.
^Well, it is. Just not in that way. Light skin and long, straight hair are supposed to be closer to “white” and further from “black.”
Again, thanks for making this clear for me
@Natasha W:
I agree Gemma’s not classically beautiful. I meant that being blond and blue-eyed doesn’t necessarily mean a person’s more beautiful by default as leaveumthinking previously noted.
I remember learning in my psychology class that the parenting style that yields the most emotionally stable and successful children is authoritative – a lot of praise, sets standards for the children, discipline.
Then there was another note that said that the most emotionally stable and successful children from (I can’t remember exactly how it was worded in the book, but it alluded to Black parents in lower-class neighbourhoods) have authoritarian parents – high standards, less praise, more discipline.
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/infantparentingtips/a/04_pntg_styles.htm
I thought that maybe it was a more successful style of parenting because the parents would stress the dangers of such areas. I live beside a damn crack house and I watch my kid like a hawk. I wouldn’t be comfortable letting him be alone in the public until he’s probably 16. This world isn’t a nice place and kids have to be guarded from it until we know they can make the right decisions. I get angry when I see parents in stores who don’t even watch their kids, or whose kids are disrespectful, when the parent is belittling the child, or outright ignoring the child. How often have you heard “mom, mom, mom look.. mom.. mommy” and the parents continue ignoring.
I’m Native by the way and I’m sure there’s people of all races who have to live in lower-class and dangerous neighbourhoods with their children – the good parents deal with it and keep their kids safe. The good parents also teach the kids to respect themselves and to not be sleeping around.
leigh, of course. That shouldn’t even need to be said, it’s just so obvious.
The post of mine that shows Gemma Ward with some East Indian models on the cover of Vogue, the one that Leigh is thinking of is here:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/white-people-cannot-know-how-it-feels-to-be-a-person-of-colour/
Ó Dochartaigh:
I did not know that about marijuana. Thanks. And it is hardly the only case where racism affected drug laws either.
Right; Opium was banned in San Fransisco in 19th century because there were to many Chinese Opium Dens. The list is endless, I’m surprised you haven’t written about this. I disagree with some things on this blog, but even I can see the blatant racism in the drug war.
@Ó Dochartaigh
I read that when the Chinese men arriving to the US White had the same view of them as they did as black men. They said how Chinese men would drug white women with opium and rape them
Let’s agree that white women are not saints, they are human like every other woman on the planet; no more pure, no more dirty.
I notice that a white woman can behave like a harlot and people will still see her in a more sympathetic light and it makes me sick. What’s even more disgusting to me is when black men perpetuate the pure white womenhood myth too.
Slutty women come in all colors! I won’t feel sorry for black men who bash black women if they get a nasty STD from a supposedly pure white women!
It would be no less than what they deserve!
Amen, Lalia.
I sympathize with all races that have been downtrodden by a different race, but I would appreciate it if everyone would drop the generalizations.
Some of the comments I’m referencing were posted several months ago, so I apologize if amends have already been made for those comments. Just wanted to say that making generalizations about any race/sex is merely allowing yourself to sink to the level of the bigoted. Fight misconceptions with a genuine desire to provide understanding and insight. Mud-slinging solves nothing and often aggravates the situation.
As for the “white” standard of beauty, it has always bothered me to see darker-skinned women dye their hair a lighter color (and to straighten it, if it’s on the curly/frizzy side) and to see ANY woman put on obscene amounts of make-up. It’s so fake, and I’d much rather see them allow their natural beauty to shine through and to accentuate that instead.
In closing, I’d like to say that no one’s perfect. Regardless of race, sex, sexuality, or creed, we all have our weaknesses, just as we all have our strengths. It’s past time for all of us to dare to look beyond our exteriors and our labels and to discover and improve upon what we find inside one another. We are so much more than we at first appear, and we deserve and should demand more of ourselves and others.
Black men should learn to appreciate black women, we are so fortunate, black women just like black men come in many different hues we are truly kissed by God’s sun, I’ve never had the desiree to date a white woman, there is nothing like a beautiful black woman her full lips, her beautiful figure that every white woman want to have, not to mention her swagger…yes I’m in love with my beautiful Sister’s. after all I came from a black woman.
Great post. The “pure” myth is the worst and most sexist myth of all applied on women from white feodal culture over the years. As an European (not that we are so forefront but just this particular conservative phenomena ) it puzzles me why there are still states in America where people with moral comprehensions/dogmatism like in the 19th (18th?) century prevailes. Fear of something? Fear from what exactly? Women liberation? Not being able to control? Fear of losing money and power?
It’s interesting to read this applied to ‘racial ‘ cultural matters. But isnt it still very much prevailing that ‘black’ culture often is applied as “the entertainers” while white culture is still considered ‘more serious’ ? It’s interesting from an european perspective because it gets painfully clear from over the sea that it’s about cultural disengration and misconceptions and power. (and needless to say there are ignorant people here too, but it’s not about black/white culture)
And actually I think that it’s related to how America regards it’s men. You seem to have this intense Macho culture going like it was 1680, and it doesnt have to be anything wrong with macho, but you havent updated it or given much alternatives. While in some other modern countries, men are allowed to be sensitive and show different inner aspects and sides to the world, to be complex. America sometimes seem completely stuck in the Jock stereotype. The Game-rules. The man as the cold, stiff, square Providor and the women as the decorative, trophy accesoars. I think the US is an amazing country with a lot of complex patterns and complex men but as a main culture thing this is what I find to be most backwards from a scandinavian perspective. The Male ideal off the U.S..The jock. It’s a bit like everything that dont exactly follows those patterns is regarded as unmanly?
Im not saying every single man in America should start wearing a french Barret, though. it was just a thought.
I might be all wrong here. But the American black male, stereotypically speaking, is expected to be even more macho, more like a warrior, isnt he?
“Just wanted to say that making generalizations about any race/sex is merely allowing yourself to sink to the level of the bigoted. Fight misconceptions with a genuine desire to provide understanding and insight. Mud-slinging solves nothing and often aggravates the situation.”
I think it’s better to dig into it than not. It can only get clearer/make more sense that way.
The pure white woman stereotype is one of the most twisted stereotypes I’ve heard. It’s difficult to believe some people actually truely believe that white women can never do wrong and are always virtuous. For example, in the uk, a lot of late night adult shows show many of the premiscious women as white. When you see reality shows about things like binge drinking and meaningless sex, I see mostly white people in the predicaments. (I’m not saying all white people people are like this, just for those who are quick to starting snapping at me). And yet the stereotype of white women being pure and black women being like vixens is quite strong among some people. You see this a lot on the internet, and just by google alone.
In reality, from the people I know, black women seem to try have dignity when it comes to sex, perhaps because many have strong christian background. The pure white woman stereotype is almost laughable; could it be because its being supported by the “basically good” views some white people have about themselves?
I thought that the “meaning” of sex was to have a good time. One of the meanings, any road. So, absent rape, how can there be “meaningless sex”? Just a nit.
As for “dignity when it comes to sex”… It makes me wonder if the people who believe such a thing can exist have actually ever had sex.
To JM:
It’s difficult to believe some people actually truely believe that white women can never do wrong and are always virtuous.
Yes, that would make sense… because I don’t know White people who think that White women can’t make mistakes.
For example, in the uk, a lot of late night adult shows show many of the premiscious women as white.
If you mean promiscuous… sadly not nearly enough White women (or women in general..) are promiscuous.
JH,
“The pure white woman stereotype is almost laughable; could it be because its being supported by the “basically good” views some white people have about themselves?”
Actually, I mainly see non-whites perpetuate this stereotype. They say white women are “demure” or “easier to deal with” (which, ironically, I’ve never heard white men say: in fact they claim the opposite). As I said in my original comment above, I don’t know of any white person born after 1960 that thinks of white women as “purer” than other women. And I know a heck of a lot of white people, from all around the U.S (can’t speak for Europe). White women and white men aren’t as buddy-buddy as some may think, and of course white men view white women as women first and above all else, which comes with the mandatory second-class citizenship.
I do think the original post is accurate in some ways, in that the only times I’ve seen a hint of “Oh no, our sacred white women!” from white men is when the woman is involved with a black man or is “in danger” of being involved with one.
Um… ALL men claim that “their” women are a royal pain in the ass, and vice versa.
It’s a transhuman phenomenon.
^That’s right.
That’s why I don’t think this post really applies.
JH says,
And yet the stereotype of white women being pure and black women being like vixens is quite strong among some people. You see this a lot on the internet, and just by google alone.
In reality, from the people I know, black women seem to try have dignity when it comes to sex, perhaps because many have strong christian background. The pure white woman stereotype is almost laughable; could it be because its being supported by the “basically good” views some white people have about
laromana says,
It’s true that most people of ALL RACES can see that the pure WW stereotype is NOT true in REAL LIFE (ie the high profile WW making/selling sex tapes-Kartrashians, Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson, Tiger’s WW bimbos trying to make money from their affairs with him, Jesse’s WW bimbos having affairs with him when they knew he was married to SB, etc.) but INSTITUTIONAL ANTI-BW RACISM still leads Americans to act as if this stereotype were true.
That’s why WW can behave in ways that are ANYTHING BUT PURE, and are still be treated as if they are MORALLY SUPERIOR to BW who have strong religous backgrounds and ACTUALLY behave in a more MORAL manner.
I think an excellent example of this was the way Janet Jackson was treated after her wardrobe malfunction. The media and many in America behaved as if Janet had comitted a capital offense even though we see MORE WW exposing MORE of their bodies in a sexual manner via multiple media sources to MORE people than Janet did.
It’s clear that American society doesn’t care that MOST BW are NOT vixens, ho’s b’s (or any other derogatory ANTI-BW stereotype) and that MOST WW are not ALL PURE.
American culture/media continue to MISTREAT BW and trash their HUMANTIY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY regardless of the FACTS.
Protecting the holiness of white womanhood has been used against Jews in Germany, Native Americans, Asian Indians, etc. But, there has been far, far, more cases of white men raping other women than the reverse.
Civil Rights has proven that the fear that black men (or Native men or any other men) will take all the white women is bogus. Given the legal freedom to do so, most white women have not dashed out to marry a black man. All black\white I\R is only about one third of one percent of white marriages.
T.V. talk shows make it seem as it there is some great black\white I\R but according to the census 90% I\R involves a white married to a Hispanic, an Asian, a Native America, a Middle Easterners i.e. not married to an Afro-Am.
I’ll be perfectly honest when I hear white women complain about how they are stereotyped I want to scream shut up! I’d rather have the stereotypes that white women have than the dehumanzing stereotypes that are associated with black women. Trust if white women had the stereotypes that black women are defined with many of those white women would be on mental meds or on suicide watch!
People really need to get over seeing a white woman with a black man if that seriously bothers them. I’m a white woman and I’m only attracted to black males. I intend to marry one one day and I’ve already fallen in love with one in the past. It’s not going to change and I’d be proud of any black man I could call mine.
I don’t really care if black men are with white women. I believe interracial love is beautiful. All I can say for es22_02 is I wish nothing but the best for you.
this is all wrong when i think of white women i think everything BUT pure. i think me and most of the world views them as the whores of the earth. morals?! white people in general have the least morals of any race from what i see in school, public, “wife swap”, “nanny 911″, and so on.
I always want to spew my coffe whenever I hear the PWW nonsense…from what I see, daily, no such creature exists except in the minds of neo-nazis, HBDers, and self-hating non-whites! XD
septultura13,
You are so right. WNs, neo-nazis, HBD people, and brainwashed people of color all want to white night certain White women, put them above all others in their warped minds. That’s how society produce Susan Smiths, the Bethany Storros, all the PWW news on CNN, Faux Channel, etc.
What are your thoughts?
Many stereotypes are designed to keep people in their perceived “place” such as the stereotypes about the PWW which is a positive place and the stereotypes of BW which is a negative place. Well, these stereotypes have existed for centuries and they were intended to keep WW on a pedestal in our society while maintaining a degrading and inferior position for BW in our society. These stereotypes as well as proganda used in media such a tv, movies, music videos, and literature that perpetuate them have brainwashed many people especially weak-minded black men into thinking WW are some kind of prize at the end of the rainbow that he must obtain to be really successful, even if the WW is in reality used up white trash. Not all BM fall for it but too many do. But, it plays into the image that is trying to be projected of WW being superior to other women. I see too much aimed at trying to maintain that standard in the United State and would seriously like something done about it. Trying to fight stereotypes and trying to progress when you have to deal with stereotypes is not fun. Nobody should have to walk around with a bible all the time just to prove they are a good person or a good girl. Everyone should be able to live their life and pursue happiness without worrying about being sterotyped and I’m not suggesting BW want to be immoral without being judged but we’re often judged that way without doing anything.
@Aran on Sat 2 Jan 2010 at 00:16:53
Great post!
@ Marla
“Everyone should be able to live their life and pursue happiness without worrying about being sterotyped and I’m not suggesting BW want to be immoral without being judged but we’re often judged that way without doing anything.”
Amen. So true.
To you all who are speaking badly about the poor values of the white woman, Girls gone wild and the high family values of the black community, here are some stats, from 2007 US Census, comparing beliefs and actions:
http://www.healthymarriageinfo.org/marriage-and-culture/african-americans-and-the-black-community
Oh man I’m late to this one. I think, maybe I posted here before? Heck with it.
Anyway from what I’ve read the “purity of white women” was just an excuse for the white men at the time to behave in an uncivilized fashion. The idea that White women were prone to be “victims” of molestation and loss of virtue (which back then and now white men are still principally responsible for) gave them a good reason to be barbaric. Under this guise they would beat them, marginalize them, subjugate them, take their property, deny them basic rights, and/or at the very least claim to be “saving them from themselves”.
This is not an attempt to make white women appear as helpless passengers on the white patriarchal train. But these men were indeed extremely savage.
@ La Reyna:
I apologize; I hadn’t seen your response so I had no idea that you’d asked a question, and I definitely have some opinions and thoughts about this topic! Hopefully you still check in from time to time, as I will address this in detail in the next couple of days – the recent news regarding Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox will be major focal points.
Stay tuned…
We just want to keep our race and our culture. If everyone breeds together we end up with pygmy mongoloids. It’s science not bigotry.
After reading this article, i asked- What the hell happened to this country, it used to be a great place.
Hello, I know this is an old blog post but my searching has led me here. I found the article interesting, but the comments very mean, coming from both sides of the debate. Being a white woman, I know that purity issue was pushed on me. Perhaps I’m too sheltered because I thought this issue was pushed on all women regardless of color. Looking at the history of all women I assumed that purity, piety, charity, and role in the domestic realm was pushed on all females. Perhaps I am wrong to think that, I don’t know. What I do know is that it is wrong to say that all people of color (any color for that matter or lack of color) are evil.
Yes the media has a great way of covering up the mistakes the “whites” make. But the media is machine created to keep poor people down, of any color, or so I think.
I guess my opinion of this whole matter is people are people. Suffering is terrible in any color and should be remedied. Whores and saints come in every color and so do Rapists and Respectful people. It’s when people label other races with these idiotic stereotypes is when we only decide that color is the most important factor to a human, not character or morals or creed. Humans dehumanize humans and it happens in every color. It’s ignorant, it’s unjustifiable, and it’s extremely dangerous. All people are inherently good. At least that was I think, regardless of their color, religion, location, etc. It is outside contributors (nature, nurture) that turn them into Hate mongers.
The media is a hate machine, it’s always been that way. People love hate. Hate sells and that’s why any form of racism has last this long. Not all humans hate other races, it’s just the racists get more publicity than people who don’t have an issues with something so trivial as skin color. It’s not “exciting” news. Media pushes stereotypes, ordinary people just decide to run with it and that what’s terrible.
Take pride in all colors, don’t take pride in hate.
But maybe I’m wrong.