Note: the point of this post is to make clear the difference between thick, thin and fat women. Those who think I am standing in judgement of women are reading way too much into it.
Thick black women are black women who are curvy, who have a nice figure with plenty of meat on their bones, as they say. Think of Beyonce. “Red beans and rice didn’t miss her”, as an old song puts it.
Thick is the opposite of the thin that the fashion and film industries push as the height of beauty: “the beanpole dames in the magazines”.
Thick does not mean fat. Women who have gained so much weight that they have little or no figure left are still fat. Sorry.
Some examples:
Thin: women so thin that they do not have much of a figure: Naomi Campbell, Rihanna, Eva Pigford, Ildi Silva, Jill Marie Jones, Alek Wek, Iman, Chanel Iman, Oluchi Onweagba, Kelly Rowland, Sharon Leal, Amerie, YaYa Da Costa, Lucy Ramos and Rojane Fradique.
Thick: in between thin and fat: Deelishis, Bria Myles, Beyonce, Adriana Bombom, Buffie the Body, Esther Baxter, Melyssa Ford, Kenya Moore, Lisa Nicole Carson, Kelis, Angela Bassett, Elise Neal , Toccara Jones, Angell Conwell, Lizz Robbins, Ki Toy Johnson, Lela Rochon, Paula Lima, Serena Williams, Liris Crosse, Avonte Wright, Eve and Omotola. White society – at least its dressmakers and doctors – would consider some of these women to be fat.
Fat: women so fat that they do not have much of a figure: Mo’Nique.
Some fat women call themselves thick. They are only fooling themselves – and helping to water down a perfectly good word.
Alicia Keys has moved from thin to thick and Rihanna probably will too in time. Toccara Jones, when she is happy with her weight, is thick – not fat like the judges on the “Celebrity Fit Club” said.
In terms of white women: Gwyneth Paltrow and Kate Moss are thin, Sophia Loren and Marilyn Monroe are thick, while Roseanne Barr is fat.
You may not agree where I put this or that woman, but I think you get the general idea.
Thick women have hourglass or pear-shaped figures. It is not their waist that is thick but their thighs and behinds.
As a rule of thumb, if a woman’s waist is two-thirds the size of her hips or less – if her waist to hip (WHR) is 0.67 or less – she is most likely thick.
In North America it seems that most white men like thin women, while most black men like thick women. When people say that black men like fat women they are mixing up fat with thick.
I like thick women the most. It just seems natural to me. I have a hard time understanding how so many men can like thin women, but clearly they do.
It seems that white American men once preferred thick women, like Sophia Loren and Marilyn Monroe. As late as the 1970s most Playboy Playmates of the Year were thick (going by waist-to-hip ratios). The change to thin women seemed to have started with Twiggy in the 1960s.
See also:
- Hey You Feministe – if you came here from Feministe this is my answer to the post “Hey You Fatty”.
- women
- Twiggy
- WHR: waist to hip ratio
- Why I love thick women
- race and beauty
- thin:
- thick:
Wed 31 Oct 2007 at 12:00:32
Nice Post.
Wed 31 Oct 2007 at 14:46:08
Thanks.
Fri 2 Nov 2007 at 01:18:51
Great post, Abagond and thanks for showing the wide array of Black women in your post. They are beautiful!
Stephanie B.
Fri 2 Nov 2007 at 14:00:08
It was my pleasure!
Sat 3 Nov 2007 at 03:59:26
Thanks for the post. Can you tell me why are people so jealous of them of thick black women?
Sun 11 Nov 2007 at 04:44:47
Maybe I’m brainwashed, but I like ‘em thin thin thin! Kate Moss is “average” for me. Skinny chicks just look glamorous and sexy to me. Sorry, fatties.
Mon 19 Nov 2007 at 22:27:13
I actually think everybody knows truly what they like and dont like, there are times when say a man will be with w women of what he thinks his associates would appreciate instead of being with who they would actually desire. All the women on this list extremly sexy hot and beautiful in there own ways… we are a proud group.. lol
Wed 5 Dec 2007 at 16:18:32
Dunno Mann, I actually think you are attracted to a 6 year-old Asian boy,If you think Kate Moss is average. Shut up, and get a life,fag.
Wed 5 Dec 2007 at 16:20:30
get a life
Tue 18 Dec 2007 at 04:07:35
I have to disagree with Tyra being labeled as thin, the girl is CLEARLY…the girl has the perfect example of an hour glass figure…Beyonce is more of a pear shape because she’s smaller on top but I still consider Beyonce thick and I consider Tyra thick as well…Have ya seen her recently?
Wed 19 Dec 2007 at 07:58:24
I looked at Tyra again and I think you are right. I put her with the thick women. Thanks.
Sun 6 Jan 2008 at 18:37:48
Get a Life!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please…
Fri 25 Jan 2008 at 23:44:53
Actually the statement that White men like thin women is quite false. Were that true, explain their obsession with their most beloeved White woman of all time; Marilyn Monroe? Also why do these same men OPENLY go crazy over Jennifer Lopez, Coco and Kim Kardashian? I submit to you that White Supremacy plays a major role in what is portrayed as the White man’s taste when in actuality one need only open their eyes to see that they love many things about the look of Black women, lips and butts, but love them more when they are attached to White women. America will never glorify the beauty of Afrikan women but will do all they can to have it for themselves. Butt implants are now the third most sought after surgery for White women, behind nose jobs and breast implants. Men are men and beauty is beauty and they recognize it. I am a Melyssa Ford shaped women who is 5′9- so I am full bodied and tall, which is quite eye catching. I get looks from all men, Black, White, Arab, Asian- you name it.
Sat 26 Jan 2008 at 18:31:11
Interesting comment. Thanks!
Sure there are white men who like women with a good figure, just as there are black men who go for thin women. I was only speaking in general.
I used to assume that all men like thick women, that Vogue and Hollywood were living on a different planet. It was only later that I found out that white men (in North America and Europe but not in Latin America) prefer their women thin. In general!
There is a history to this: if you go by Playboy models and those who were considered the great white beauties of Hollywood, then white men used to like thick women too, from about 1945 to 1980. Thus Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren. And maybe with Kim Kardashian and so on it is turning back to that.
More on all that in a future post.
Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 17:12:52
Oh,please!I’m a handsome black 54-year-old Cana-
dian lad who’s DISGUSTED at the likes of Queen-
size Fatifah,Jennifer Hudson,Mariah Carey,and
other fatties being presented as the ideals in
the black female body.As a heavy metal drummer,
lyricist and singer,I’m into buxom blonde or
black lasses such as former WCW diva
Lady Blossom or The Spice Girls’ Mel.B.,or e-
ven singer/actress Brandy.
Tue 12 Feb 2008 at 17:19:39
If you notice I was careful to say “most black men”. Not all black men are alike and a good number of them like thin women. There is also a difference between fat and thick.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 02:30:27
No. I disagree with your opinion that women like Naomi Campbell, Rihanna, and Yaya are “so thin that they don’t have much of a figure” ehem, excuse me, not trying to pick a bone with you (no pun intended), but just because a woman is in a traditional sense considered thin, that DOESN’T mean being thin= not having a figure. Sorry, that is totally false! Quite frank, I am offended by that because I am a Black woman with their shape. Don’t get me wrong, Beyonce looks great just the way she is and I think she and other “pear shape women” look great and healthy as they are (oh and PLEASE don’t say they are like Mariliyn or even Kim Kardashian because Beyonce/Trina NOR JLO has an hourglass figure. Thick or curvy doesn’t always = hourglass). But anyway, every woman, no matter thin or thick, has varying BODY SHAPES!! So for instance, just because you are considered thick doesn’t mean you are going to look like beyonce…A woman who may be thick may look like a male linebacker with no waist and a woman who is thin my have an hourglass figure (low body weight/fat) but shape in the hips, butt, legs, and bust. Believe me, I’ve seen lots of skinny girls with more shape than some thick girls. To me, Pam Grier back in the day was thin, even though she had a lotta boobs and hips…she was shapely but NOT THICK. Halle Berry is curvy, even though she is very very petite. And as far as the ANTM goes, Eva and Yaya had different body structures too. Eva was more of a ruler figure and Yaya had more of an athletic hourglass figure. So don’t bash all thin women, especially BLACK women who may not be thick as having no shape/figure because every women is BUILT differently and you can’t just generalize and put everyone in you fat, thick, thin box…it’s much more complex than that sweetie.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 02:36:30
omg, by the way, Gabrielle Union is not thick! lol! Who is making this list?! lol!
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 03:12:15
I did not say Gabrielle Union was thick but on the line between thick and thin. It more or less depends on how much weight she has gained or lost.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 03:24:42
Erica:
Thanks for your comment.
1. You make a good point when you say that not all thick women have an hourglass figure – some are more pear shaped. True.
2. I think we have a different idea of thick. If a woman does not have much of a waist then she is fat, not thick. Some may call themselves thick, but that is wishful thinking on their part.
3. I know that some thin women have hourglass figures. That is why I added “with some meat on their bones”. An hourglass figure just by itself does not make you thick. Thus YaYa. But if she gained some weight or thicken out as she gets older like Alicia Keys has done, then she would become thick.
4. Thin does not necessarily mean ugly. I would never call YaYa or Naomi ugly. I think they are both very beautiful and gave them posts of their own for that reason. But all things being equal, I prefer thick women over thin. That is me. Some men are like that, some are not. Plenty of men love thin women. Just as all women are not the same, neither are all men.
5. I agree: not all women fall nicely into the thin/thick/fat pigeonholes. But I do think it is an interesting way to think about it, a good first cut that does apply to many women. Things make more sense with it than without it, so for me that makes it a useful idea.
Again, thanks for your comment. You brought up some good points.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 08:32:08
see where you are going
And yeah, we do have a different idea about body shape. Seriously, I am aware that men, no matter what the race, are attracted to the hip-waist ratio thing…I get that. But that is not always attainable and most women are not that “balanced”…including thick women.
However, I know women who are oh, say about 5′6 138 34-26-35 and another 5 ‘6 138 36-25-38. Guess what? According to the height and weight chart, both women are in a healthy body mass range for the height (and for the sake of this argument) range. However, one has a more “hourglass figure” so you will, while the other is just what? fat?? No I don’t think so. Just because the latter has the hip-to-waist ratio thing going on doesn’t make the woman with the average body frame fat. I think what men fail to realize is that by critiquing women on their bodies is harmful and damaging. The reasons being is that men don’t realize that because a woman is thick with the right measurements, doesn’t mean she is healthy or womanly than the next…Realize that measurements have to do with genetics, the way a woman’s body is naturally set up…not how much meat she has on her bones. Don’t just go on body fat because that is an inaccurate assessment:
A woman who is 5′ 8 125 pounds who is 36-24-36 while the latter is the same weight and height but measurements are 32-24-33 would both be considered underweight (however that it debatable as well…but that’s a whole nutha story) however, to you, as you say, the first one has “more meat on her bones” than the one with an average shape because of how her body was set up genetically. Once again, they weigh the same, but one is considered too thin because she isn’t built like your ideal of a “brickhouse”…Just because the first one is more balanced doesn’t mean she has more meat on her bones…it means that she was just built like that genetically…with wider hips and fuller breast!
It seems to me that you just like women who are genetically more balanced, whether thick or thin lol…..and that’s ok. I mean, unless women opt for plastic surgery for that perfect “healthy more womanly shape” that ideal is unattainable (like some full-figure women feel that a size 0 is unattainable) IF IT IS NOT GENETICALLY natural for a woman. Of course, SOME WOMEN do get lucky and can have those measurements…I’ve seen it as well, but I’ve read that only 18% of women are naturally born with and hourglass thick figure…then the ruler shape follows, then pair shapes, and then the naturally athletic (inverted triangle).
And remember (before you twist up your nose) ruler doesn’t = flat and one dimensional…it could mean a woman with an ample bottom, bust, and hip…just with little to no waist. Ehem, Tyra Banks falls into this category, While she is VERY SHAPELY (before ppl jump outta their seats) she has an undefined waist…you know, what you would call as not having a waist which would equate to being fat .. ***And btw, Tyra has ALL WAYS BEEN THIN up until recently. She has always had a small thin frame…just with breasts and hips…but that doesn’t mean that she was thick(yeah, at 5 ’10, 125-135 is not what I would call thick***Call me crazy, but this is why she wears big belts often because big belts help to DEFINE and mold a woman to look more balances like an hourglass for women who don’ t naturally have that. Likewise, Beyonce, WHILE SHE APPEARS to be an hourglass, does not have an ample bosom but guess what? In order to attain that perfect figure that men like, she wears a lot of push-ups that help shape her on top.
I think you are being PC about this subject. What you really want to say is that women who are in the 18% are just naturally more feminine and womanly and scientifically males are attracted to them verses any other body shape. But that sounds REALLY bad and superficial even though 18% of women can look like this; but where does that the other 82%?? So in your case I think it’s easier to criticize the western world (white folk) as making people feel that in order to be attractive you need to be supermodel thin…instead of just saying bulimia and anorexia is a sickness and a sign of bad health and naturally leaner women (taking into consideration that they are getting the right diet/nutrition for their size) are beautiful just because that’s the way that nature made them. Unless you are living in the fashion industry/or warped Hollywood, I don’t know too many women who like seeing their ribcages and hip bones jut out. So to say white society and doctors see’s so-called “thick women like Kelis and Eve” as fat is ridiculous. In the REAL WORLD most people view these women as average in weight and appearing to be healthy. The only ones who are considered fat are the dangerously obese Those that fall in between the thick and the fat are women Queen Latifah or maybe even Monique as just being full-figured.
So before you go assessing the perfect woman of your preference, keep in mind that from the Beyonce’s to the Tyra Banks figures all women are pretty much enhanced or tweaked in some ways and not everything is all that it appears…no one is that perfect so it is pointless to say compare women’s bodies as what is more “womanly or healthy” vs. the other. And men who like thin women are not necessarily brainwashed into liking “unnatural boyness”…it could be that a man that finds either a thick woman or a thin woman attractive could just be in the way she presents herself, I do believe men love curves and thin women have them like thick women have them. Thin women do not have to always be considered like men because they have low body fats…lots of men may see a thin woman as being just as womanly as a thick woman…hence the Audrey Hepburn being a top notch glamour sex symbol right alongside Marilyn. Both men and women adored their bodied equally and in my opinion, neither of these women is more womanly over the next.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 17:21:14
Erica:
Three other posts of mine you might be interested in:
waist-to-hip ratio:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/whr-waist-to-hip-ratio/
what I look at in a woman, almost unthinkingly:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/how-a-man-looks-at-a-woman/
how I feel about thick women – and thin (but you might like what I say):
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/11/20/why-i-love-thick-women/
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 17:29:14
Erica: If you can find that study where you got the 18% from I would love to read it.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 17:38:34
Erica:
You might also like this, something I wrote on politically correct beauty just the other day:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/politically-correct-beauty/
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 18:08:23
Erica:
Just as each woman is born with a certain shape and look, so each man is born liking a certain kind of woman. Different men like different kinds of women.
I like thick women. It is the way God made me. Some thin women do seem boylike to me. I know some men honestly do like thin women, but some just seem to go with whatever Hollywood pushes as beautiful.
I want to be honest and I think you want the truth. The truth is I cannot like all women equally.
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 18:23:57
I do not know what kind of body shape is healthy. But I do know that doctors would count some thick women as fat because their BMI would be above 25. Bria Myles is an example, even though she looks more than fine to me:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/bria-myles/
Sat 23 Feb 2008 at 19:26:32
Erica: I liked your point where you said I was taking a cheap shot at Western ideas of beauty. That was good.
Sun 24 Feb 2008 at 23:00:44
OMG, I am so going to find that for you…I hope I saved it under my favorites.
Mon 25 Feb 2008 at 00:17:26
First of all, I would like to say that I am not discrediting you or your preferences. Guess what? I’ve got preferences too in men and I believe it is a natural and a humanly response to have a preference with the opposite sex…really it is okay.
The problem that I have with some of your statements is not of your preference choice, but the way you claim to discredit thin women as overall being inferior to thick women. I know plenty of men and women who believe that blue eyes are attractive and so, they choose their mate accordingly. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they go around saying that all brown-eyed people are unattractive or that they don’t look human enough. They don’t go putting down others just because they are attracted to a certain thing.
I mean, how would you feel if I Black woman said that she is only attracted to White men? Okay, maybe your thinking, that’s fine since everyone has a preference. But it becomes problematic when the Black woman then goes on to say:
“Well I only date White men because I think that they are much smarter than Black men. They are less likely to cheat, less likely to be promiscuous, less likely to be incarcerated, less likely to be abusive towards their spouse, less likely to father 6 kids and be unable to pay child support, less likely to die of lung cancer (because they are less likely to abuse drugs and alcohol.), less likely to feel intimidated and insecure when their woman brings a bigger pay check in than they do, but more likely able to be more successful in corporate America than a Black man will ever be. Overall, I believe that White men are superior to Black men…if that wasn’t true, then why are they controlling the whole world and furthermore, why are they able to step on the backs of Black men just to do it? If the Black man can’t get up and fight for his integrity and self worth, then maybe he really isn’t worth it. This is why I would prefer a White man over a Black one.”
See what I am saying? Now, if you or any of your Black male friends heard this comment, I assure you, you all would go ballistic to say the least. Even though this woman may have a preference for White men, her reasoning are backwards and totally racist.
All I am saying abagond is choose your words so that it doesn’t seem like you are discrediting and putting down others who are just who they are. Think about how you would feel if Black women got together on the net and starting talking mess about how Black men aren’t real men if they look a certain way. I assure you, you would be offended. It’s not so much the preference as it is putting certain Black women down period. If you think that’s okay, then don’t complain or run to Al Sharpton when a White man starts a forum about what they dislike in Black women.
A lot of some of the things that you have posted on this site that you told me to check out were interesting to say the least. But be very careful in the way that you approach certain subjects because you are coming off a little —-. When you rant and rave about a Black woman’s thighs and hips and how you like sleeping with sistah thickness, keep in mind that you are only objectifying her as a sexual object. This kinda reminds me of the Black woman’s response to the way women are being treated in hip-hop. It is one thing (like how they used to do in the 70’s, a much socially/politically era that Black America so desperately need to revisit)to APPRICIATE the Black woman in all of her essence, which I believe should include a celebration of her curves. Yet, it is another thing to discredit a woman solely based off of her looks—especially a Black woman. It is not only superficial but sexist and demeaning to your race of people. One thing I can say about the White community is that even though they have their body issues in Hollywood and so forth, I don’t see them making forums openly discrediting their women’s body. White people to me, don’t like to glorify obesity. They talk a whole lotta trash when a popular public figure goes down in appearance. However, when it comes to their women, I don’t see them posting forums claiming that Pamela Anderson is superior to Jessica Alba because she had a bigger rack. I found it interesting that most White men love a wide range of beauty and hold their women in high regards. When it came down to body image, while they admitted to having a preference (and there are a lot of white men that love their women with meat on their bones too) they ALL claimed to have thought that celebrities like Jessica Alba, Marilyn Monroe, Scarlett Johanssan, Cameron Diaz, Gisele Bunchen, Angelina Jolie (the healthier version), and Eva Longoria were all hot (with the exception of a couple of a-holes, but once again, the a-holes were few and far-in-between) as they say. They acknowledged the fact that all of these women clearly had different body types…but their response was truly who the hell cares because they’d date them all.
Finally, I am going to say this (and this will end my long ass tirade)…I think Black men need to do a little less instigating about what body type is more appealing and a little more talking about how to uplift the Black woman, no matter what her shape, on a intellectual, physical, emotional, and spiritual level. I am not trying to argue with you on your preferences, but I am trying to get you to understand that a Black woman should not be compared to another based off of looks. I found it interesting that in a poll that “compared” Beyonce to India.Arie, most Black men said that while Beyonce is attractive in body and spirit, equally was India.Arie (yes, both BODY and spirit) because they both brought something different to the table. Even though Beyonce did get more flack for being a rumpshacker and stereotypically being that representation of the “whore Black woman” that justified the White men’s treatment of the Black woman during European colonialism, Black men still defended her just off the basis that she was a Black woman. On the other hand, India.Arie was said to be even more beautiful not just in body, but in spirit. They were talking about her like she was Lauren Hill (and you know how crazy Black men get when you mention Lauren Hill’s name…I’ve been a witness to that on several occasions). But sadly, I see the polls saying one thing…uplifting to Black women, but with forums like these, it just makes me wonder if brothers are all just talk and the destructive Black man/woman thing will ever change…
Mon 25 Feb 2008 at 00:50:21
Wow! That was a great comment! Even if it was a bit long and not always comfortable for me to read.
I will have to think about what you said….
Tue 26 Feb 2008 at 02:47:23
Erica:
I loved your comment even if it did make me uncomfortable at times. I like you: you can point out someone’s failings without calling names or making him feel small.
I agree that making people feel bad or less than human for how they look is dead wrong.
What I wanted to say is what I found beautiful in women. Maybe I went overboard, but I never meant to say that a woman who did not look a certain way was somehow less of a woman.
I will read back through my posts from that point of view and remove anything that could lead one to think that.
As to objectifying women that is harder. There is a line somewhere between appreciating women for their beauty and seeing them simply as a sex object, but just where that line falls is not clear to me.
Tue 26 Feb 2008 at 04:48:01
No, I am glad that you understood that I was not trying to belittle your opinions, it’s just that I have heard so many guys make comments about women’s body and then wonder why they got body issues that they get annoyed by. I know that I was lengthy but I just had a lot to get off my chest because I just get to tired of hearing the put-downs and never the support or appriciation for Black women. Sometimes to me, it seems one-sided because Black women, while we do have our issues with Black men, still don’t go to the same lengths as disrepecting Black men. I think we are more inclined to uplift the Black man, but I personally don’t feel that Black men are out to uplift us
I know that we can have even more discussions about the state of Black America and why we are where we are today, but I think that change comes first with learning how to respect one another…everything else will follow.
Tue 26 Feb 2008 at 04:52:05
Oh and I will still look and see if I can find that article that I was telling you about…and possibly more sources that may wanna chew on. I will def. reading your forums. They are really good and it is about time Blacks start having open discussions about these subjects!
Tue 26 Feb 2008 at 06:08:41
That would be great. Thanks.
Wed 12 Mar 2008 at 03:10:38
Excellent post. As a thicker woman who works in the entertainment industry, sometimes I find myself with a bruised ego because of some of the comments that are made about my curvier size. But this was a great post that was definitely uplifting. Thank you both (Erica I liked your retort as well) for your positive words and discussion.
Sat 15 Mar 2008 at 14:41:43
FINALLY, a person (abagond) that thinks the same way i do on different body types. most of white america thinks that thick is fat, and that’s not true. for those of u out there that don’t understand…THICK is a women that most of the time has thick thighs, wide hips, a phat booty, and still maintains a fairly small waist. u can’t be considered fat if your waist is small. FAT is a women that is just…well…FAT lol. a fat women is a woman with rolls on her sides, stomach hanging over, a woman that u wouldn’t want to see with her cloths off…well u get the picture. i think a thick body is the best body to have for a woman (i’m a man not a woman by the way). see, women just let magazines and HOLLYWOOD brainwash them into being something they shouldn’t be (a stick). but bottom line, i think why most people think thick is fat is because this world is so obsessed with having skinny bodies that anything else would be considered fat, which isn’t true. “skinny” unfortunately rules the world. skinny gets u on the cover of magazines, skinny gets u photo shoots, etc.
Sat 15 Mar 2008 at 21:44:17
Everything you said is just what I think!
Fri 21 Mar 2008 at 03:29:01
whatever you have to say to make yourself feel better.
Tue 25 Mar 2008 at 01:39:34
I’ve heard this time and time again from black men. I understand the appeal, but can skinny women get some love. I don’t pound cheeseburgers in hopes that I grow an ass overnight. I work out and think I look great however, it’s hurtful when a man tells me (a fully grown woman) that I do not have a body. So I’m guessing puberty was a hoax. To each black man his own although the majority favors thicker women. Hollywood shuts down thick women, but the majority of them are in the real world. But this is a matter of preference and I’ll just find me a nice (white) man who likes my body.
Tue 25 Mar 2008 at 23:34:31
Some black men do like thin women. Like the singer Seal.
Fri 28 Mar 2008 at 15:51:07
Ms. Dubya, when a man tells u that u don’t have a body, he probably means u don’t have any curves like a woman like Beyonce who has very nice curves starting at the hips. it’s kinda like somebody saying that they don’t like the color white cause it’s plain, they want blue cause it has some color to it. curves doesn’t necessarily mean a chubby or fat woman. when i hear curvy, i think of a woman who has a very nice waist to hips ratio. just like latin women, i love how latin women have wide hips cause it brings off a curvy look to there body, they’re kinda known for their hips too and having nice curves. i myself prefer a woman with thick thighs, small waist, and a phat booty. example: Beyonce body, with a fairly bigger booty though. but all in all, most mean, most black men, like a woman with curves, and not a woman with no hips, no ass, and some of the time no boobs. it’s like a body with nothing to offer. but most black men love for a curvy woman comes from us growing up around those types of bodies, and white dudes grow up around white women with slim skinny bodies with no ass most of the time. so i guess we use to the kind of bodies we grow up around. the majority of black women have curves, it’s like their trade mark in a way, and the majority of white women don’t have curves or a ass, that’s just the way it is.
Fri 28 Mar 2008 at 16:53:05
I agree with rod. I do not get what white men see in thin women.
Sat 29 Mar 2008 at 05:43:14
Hi! I’m a white Mexican, and I agree with you, I (instinctively) like thick women, dark skin and full lips but I also like white women with blue eyes and blond hair. I’d like to date black women but I wonder if some are too defensive for me, I think women should allow men to prove themselves before making any assumptions, we are just talking about outside beauty, we are not saying that women are to be valued just by their looks, personally, I like the hourglass figure and the pear-shaped figure, those body types are mostly found in black women first and latino women second.
By the way those are beautiful women specially Bria Miles and Angell Conwell
English is not my first language I hope I made myself clear
Greetings from Mexico City.
Sat 29 Mar 2008 at 12:10:49
You were clear!
Fri 4 Apr 2008 at 12:55:27
i agree with Erica she made some great points. I am a healthy thinner black girl..my measurements are 5′8″ 136..33/25/38..i think im a ruler. I have had many men tell me “girl if u just gain about 15 pounds u would be on point!”…The funny thing is I only gain weight in my stomach and have small little rolls coming in on my back which looks strange since im kind of small. This is all genetic btw..how you gain weight. I think men in general should be more sensitive to women that arent hour glasses. Besides you dont see too many women being picky about the shape of a man.
Fri 4 Apr 2008 at 12:57:28
correction my waist is like a 27-28 lol
Fri 4 Apr 2008 at 18:15:38
im the same size as Kelis..she isnt thick in my book and neither am I lol…and Eve isnt that thick either she just has boobs now
Their still beautiful to me though
Sat 5 Apr 2008 at 07:08:57
Necole:
I agree, most women are stuck with the shape God gave them. You can control the overall weight, but not where that weight goes for the most part.
On the other hand, I think what men like in women is to a large degree hardwired into them. They cannot help what they like in women. I can watch stuff on television that I first saw when I was 12 and I find myself liking the very same women for the very same reasons. At work or the bus stop my head is turned by the same few women – even though I already know what they look like. It is built in. I cannot help myself.
Men do not care if women like how they look, so long as they are getting the action they want. But women, it seems, want a man who thinks they are beautiful and desirable.
If you had the perfect husband but you found out he thought you were ugly, would you be happy?
Sat 5 Apr 2008 at 17:04:28
About Kelis and Eve:
I think I have seen pictures of Kelis where she was thin, but like in “Milkshake” she was thick. Eve in “Tambourine” was thick. Of course, just where you draw the line between thick and thin can be a matter of debate and even personal taste.
Mon 7 Apr 2008 at 21:04:46
I would not give much credence to Body Mass Index numbers. Many years ago I was at the upper end of the Overweight category and even bordering on Obese according to the BMI scale. In fact, because of these arbitrary figures which don’t take into account a person’s genetic predisposition for weight distribution or the amount of lean muscle mass they possess, I had to get special clearance from my physician every year to compete in sports for my school.
To illustrate the flaws in BMI more clearly, wrap your head around this: When I was considered damn near obese by this standard for healthy vs unhealthy bodies, I was at 5′9″ tall, 197 pounds, and only 5% body fat. I had a 34″ waist and a 50″ chest. Not only was I not fat, I was in the best shape of my life and in better shape than most people ever will be. I guess you could even say I was thick! lol
Tue 8 Apr 2008 at 01:02:12
abagond:
you are very correct indeed. i actually find myself very attractive but i need to know and feel that my lover finds me to be desirable as well. i understand the whole attraction is not something you can help. for example, i am not attracted to lanky/slim men…do i am in a way just like you! lol
Tue 8 Apr 2008 at 01:02:34
so* not do..my bad
Wed 9 Apr 2008 at 01:39:27
Randy, is BMI why the judges on “Celebrity Fit Club” called Toccara fat even when she looked great?
Wed 9 Apr 2008 at 12:38:44
Black men do not like fat women as a lot of black women think. Go to the trendiest date spots in town and look if any big women have a top quality man with them and the answer is no.
Wed 9 Apr 2008 at 21:04:13
who said black men liked fat women? we talking about thick women not fat.
Sat 12 Apr 2008 at 14:03:25
As a handsome,54-year-old black lad,I’m attracted to buxom black lasses,not THICK(ie.,FAT!!!!!!) BLACK
WOMEN!!!!!!
Sat 12 Apr 2008 at 17:30:37
Fat and thick are not the same thing. That was part of the point of this post.
Fat means the woman has gained so much weight that you cannot see her waist anymore.
Thick women may be fat in the eyes of some but they still have a figure – and in my eyes the best figures of all.
Mon 14 Apr 2008 at 04:51:46
Why does people have to put thin women down in order to uplift thick women? I am thin and have been teased mercily since high school. Being put down and teased for being thin is just as bad (if not worse) than for being thick or heavy because people think thin women have it easy and make it there mission to put us down and uplift thick women. Some of the most beautiful women in the WORLD are thin! Looked at a Victoria’s Secret catalogue lately?
Mon 14 Apr 2008 at 05:27:19
have u seen the way fat and thick women has been treated for YEARS, LATELY? have u seen how thin women get more opportunities then fat or thick women lately? look, there’s NOTHING wrong with being thin. but here’s the thing, fat and thick women are told constantly to be a “THIN” woman in order to have a shot at modeling or be in a magazine, etc. yall “thin” girls are being portrayed as “the body to have” or “the perfect body to have” (which isn’t true AT ALL). so how do u think that makes fat and thick women feel? i don’t think the modeling industry telling girls to gain weight or be thick to get a job in modeling. you’re getting teased probably because of that a little bit. bottom line, there’s a small world out there for women with curves and a HUGE world out there for thin women, and it should be a little more balanced, and fair. i’m a black dude by the way, i’m just speaking for the women with curves.
Mon 14 Apr 2008 at 05:39:20
O.k, but that is the modeling industry who prepetuates thin women, not me. So don’t blame me for that. Don’t put me down because you(not really you, but people I’ve
encountered) think that thick, heavy women don’t have equal footing in the media. I don’t think that I have a perfect body, but I know that my body isn’t near as bad as people have told me that it is. Women have made me feel so bad about myself even going as far as stripping me of my sense of femininity and sexuality. So don’t tell me that thick, heavy women are the only ones who have problems. I’m still in counseling and prayer for things that I went through in high school. So, how do think that makes me feel?
Mon 14 Apr 2008 at 19:44:12
Bless you, Erica! You make some EXCELLENT points!
People always try to make you feel so inadeqate for being thin, but in essence, it’s a double standard and very hyprocritical. Black men and others who love “thick women” tear thin women down but in the same breath complain that thick women do not get preferential treatment.I’ve had black men say some very hurtful things to me simply because I was/am thin.
Also, I noticed that women a thick woman declares that she is beautiful and loves her curves, people cheer, it’s celebrated. But don’t let a thin woman say the same – she’s considered concieted and self-centered. Why can’t every woman feel sexy and celebrated without tearing the other down? I have my preference with men, but I don’t put other men down who doesn’t fit that mold.
“I think you are being PC about this subject. What you really want to say is that women who are in the 18% are just naturally more feminine and womanly and scientifically males are attracted to them verses any other body shape. But that sounds REALLY bad and superficial even though 18% of women can look like this; but where does that the other 82%?? So in your case I think it’s easier to criticize the western world (white folk) as making people feel that in order to be attractive you need to be supermodel thin…instead of just saying bulimia and anorexia is a sickness and a sign of bad health and naturally leaner women (taking into consideration that they are getting the right diet/nutrition for their size) are beautiful just because that’s the way that nature made them. Unless you are living in the fashion industry/or warped Hollywood, I don’t know too many women who like seeing their ribcages and hip bones jut out. So to say white society and doctors see’s so-called “thick women like Kelis and Eve” as fat is ridiculous. In the REAL WORLD most people view these women as average in weight and appearing to be healthy. The only ones who are considered fat are the dangerously obese Those that fall in between the thick and the fat are women Queen Latifah or maybe even Monique as just being full-figured.
So before you go assessing the perfect woman of your preference, keep in mind that from the Beyonce’s to the Tyra Banks figures all women are pretty much enhanced or tweaked in some ways and not everything is all that it appears…no one is that perfect so it is pointless to say compare women’s bodies as what is more “womanly or healthy” vs. the other. And men who like thin women are not necessarily brainwashed into liking “unnatural boyness”…it could be that a man that finds either a thick woman or a thin woman attractive could just be in the way she presents herself, I do believe men love curves and thin women have them like thick women have them. Thin women do not have to always be considered like men because they have low body fats…lots of men may see a thin woman as being just as womanly as a thick woman…hence the Audrey Hepburn being a top notch glamour sex symbol right alongside Marilyn. Both men and women adored their bodied equally and in my opinion, neither of these women is more womanly over the next.”
Tue 15 Apr 2008 at 00:01:11
response to thin:
did i say that thick/heavy women are the only ones that have problems, i don’t think so. i don’t know u, but the problem u having with other people goes a bit deeper then i thought. but tell me this, who has had it more hard through out the years, heavy women or skinny women? agree or disagree, like it or not, thin women ARE seen as the body to have and it has been that way for a while now, and heavy set women are tired of their body being seen as unacceptable in this world and society. big women are pressured to be YALL. i don’t think skinny women are pressured into being thick or heavy set. the theory of, or my theory, of people thinking, or the majority of the this country thinking the “thin” body is the body to have has shrunk a lot now. big women is more accepted now, and is seen as beauty now. you thin girls has NEVER had that problem, in terms of you guys not being accepted. of course girls that are too thin get teased for being too thin, but heavy set women has been dealing with being big MUCH longer.
Tue 15 Apr 2008 at 00:05:23
My own response to thin (and Erica too):
I am guilty myself of saying unkind things about thin women. That is why Erica let loose on me. It is not right, of course. But, in my feeble defence, I must say that it never crossed my mind that such words would hurt anyone since the beauty of female thinness is held up so high in America. I say that not to excuse my words, only to mitigate my guilt – a little bit. And help you to understand. A little bit.
Tue 15 Apr 2008 at 00:08:44
I agree with Rod that thick women get it worse than thin women.
Wed 16 Apr 2008 at 21:29:33
Thanks abagond for at least being open-minded.
Rod
Three things -
ONE
Larger women have it tough only in Hollywood, but have it easier in everday life. How many people live in Hollywood? I don’t, but in the real world I get hate both ways. At work, I have been the victim of large women who take out their frustrations on me based on Hollywood standards. Don’t blame me – take your frustrations out on Versace, call Isaac Mizrahi or MGM studios. Just recently, I had a terrible experience with one very large woman and a thick white women because they thought that I recieved prefiential treatment from the guys in management. They went as far sabbataging my work and I had to document EVERYTHING. Fortunately, managment saw through them but it eventually got to be so much stress that I had panic attacks and had to quit. I got along with all of the other employees, btw.
Meanwhile, I get black women and some men who try to make me feel bad for being slim. Saying old chiches’ like “Only dogs want a bone” blah, blah, blah. This doesn’t only happen to me, but other thin women I’ve spoken to.
So don’t tell me that thick women have it worse. At least they receive understanding and empathy from people who try to boost their self-esteem. We don’t!
TWO
A lot of larger women who have claimed to be to like their “curves” and use the
old chiches’, then turn around and lose tons of weight. Star Jones is a good example. She looks great now and seems happy with how she looks, but all that false pride and putting other women down wasn’t necessary as she obviously secretly wanted to be the very woman that she put down.
THIRD
Thin women should never have to apologize about the way GOD made us. Nor should any woman. I’ve decided that I am not going to let people try to bring me down anymore to lift someone else up or to feel better about themselves. I think that being thin has several advantages. I really admire Sade in terms of beauty, style and class. She has always been very thin but at almost 50, she looks FABULOUS! Chilli is in her late 30’s, is thin and looks very young. Iman, Stacey Dash and countless other women. These women are timeless and I hope that for all of the pain that people have put me through based on my weight through the years, that it will pay off in that I will stand the test of time like these ladies!
All women are GOD’s creation and should be celebrated and uplifted and not be put down to make you or others feel better.
Wed 16 Apr 2008 at 21:32:31
Thanks for listening, but I will no longer visit this site as I am attracted to positive and uplifting environments.
Wed 16 Apr 2008 at 23:11:51
Sorry to see you go. Thanks for your comments. They were good.
Wed 16 Apr 2008 at 23:50:10
My philosophy about comments is to let people have their say – as long as they stick to the subject and do not use too much bad language.
Thu 17 Apr 2008 at 21:26:45
response to thin:
i’ve said it once and i’m gonna say it again, the problem u r having goes DEEPER than i THOUGHT, and goes deeper than the average skinny girl. but big girls taking their frustration out on u is not my problem, it’s their’s. and please don’t act like u the only one who gets treated the way u do. it goes both ways. skinny girls pick on and has harassed big girls for a much longer time then vice versa. their’s some big girl in the world that is getting treated the same way u r, it’s not just u. and NO, big girls DON’T have it easier in everyday life. i just think that people has been picking on u for YOUR “skinny” problem so long that your mind is kinda one sided now, in terms of u thinking that skinny girls have it much harder, and that’s not true. sorry for people treating u the way they do, but it goes both ways, and believe it or not, but big girls DO have it harder.
Fri 18 Apr 2008 at 16:25:16
i feel where thin is coming from. i too fell victim to being ridiculed every now and then. however, did i feel as though i had it worse than an actual big girl (not thick but big) no. it definately goes both ways. and i agree, doctors would not see eve or kelis as overweight. people are getting a little out of hand with some of these accusations. and yes anybody with paris hiltons body will be ridiculed the same as someone big or bigger than monique. so once again, its not okay but it happens and it happens both ways. regardless, somebody in the world is gonna like how you look..but you have to like how you look at the end of the day.
Sat 19 Apr 2008 at 20:41:50
Erica and Necole, when black men say ur thick or u need to gain just this much hey talkin about ur A$$… I know a girl with the measurements 31-25-38.. BIG OLE BOOTY… but she was skinny.. We black men like what yall mamas gave yall.. N great point as well ERICA… But what you say Black Women do say those things once they get White Men…
But on the real White Men tend to be More Abusive then Black Men.. Its a known fact its just you’ll hear about it when a Black Man does it… And at one point the most abusive situations come from military families.. And when it come to interracial the White Men is on top again, when they’re known to be married to a hispanic, black, even their own european sisters Italians(or said any dark hair eastern European woman), they’re being abused both physically and mentally from the white male counterparts. Yea we have more deadbeats.. But you women chose the ones that hurt ya.. And dis the Nigger (whom is really a righteous brother) SOooooo (think about it)….
Yep I told this one girl… Some I say is personal, but the more I hear the same story it seem to turn into fact..
Sat 19 Apr 2008 at 20:48:12
So if you thin, so be it don’t need to let someone make your day go wrong because he like women with more meat… I like thin women but prefer big booties… if i could find one like the girl I couldn’t get with… plus really to me its about being proportionate, a nice balance… if look like it fit u, than its a do…
Mon 21 Apr 2008 at 15:12:34
so black men prefer slendor women with big butts? lol
Mon 21 Apr 2008 at 22:26:58
No: a big butt with a narrow waist – a low waist-to-hip ratio (WHR). That is not the same thing as a big butt on a narrow frame.
Mon 5 May 2008 at 21:49:14
Where’s Trina? Why is she not there? She’s pretty thick.
Mon 5 May 2008 at 22:48:32
Trina was nice and thick, but not any more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aceandvis/2007/10/trina_if_you_can_read_this_ple.shtml
Fri 9 May 2008 at 19:11:34
that pic looks pretty fake and photshopped to me. but if that’s REALLY how she looks then i’m SHOCKED. but then again, u know how mags try to use photoshop to slim women down and show the false side at how the woman suppose to look.
Sat 10 May 2008 at 21:45:37
Still pictures are easy to touch up, but not videos. If you see Trina in her new videos and compare them with her old ones, she has become much thinner.
Mon 12 May 2008 at 17:09:50
i am not gonna bash what you wrote even though the comment about mo’nique came off a lil harsh but everything you wrote was true..i have been a thick women all my life.being”thick” is now more accepted than back in the late 90’s when i was in school.it wasn’t so much as thick but skinny or fat. so if you weren’t skinny then you were fat and this stereo type played a major role in who i am today.i had always wanted to model and been told i had the look but not the body meaning my butt and hips were too big(not flat enough) and i was too thin to be a plus size model. now mind you this was just high school but those statements could burn themselves into anyones’ conscience and it did. from then on i was always tryan to get to the next smallest size(i never did) as i matured so did my spirit and i learned to truly love myself and everything about me. i went from wearing baggy clothing and all black clothing to hide my figure to embracing my heritage and loving it excepting the way God built the women of my people. so thank God for Apple bottom jeans as well as other urban designers if not for them id still be wearing jeans etc. tight cross the but and hips with those ugly lil scars from the tag scratching my lower back lol
Tue 13 May 2008 at 11:20:27
Be proud of the body God gave you. There will be men who love you just the way you are.
Sat 17 May 2008 at 14:32:02
GABRIELLE UNION IS DA BOMB!!!!!!!Ever see her boobs?
Sun 25 May 2008 at 04:20:15
wonderful post!
Mon 26 May 2008 at 01:06:11
Thank you.
Thu 26 Jun 2008 at 15:49:55
[...] You queen of the anti-woman, don’t try and hide your grotesqueness under the label of thick. Qviloa is on to your desperate little charade. You cannot possibly love your body the way it is, because [...]
Thu 26 Jun 2008 at 19:14:23
There is a history to this: if you go by Playboy models and those who were considered the great white beauties of Hollywood, then white men used to like thick women too, from about 1945 to 1980. Thus Marilyn Monroe and Sophia Loren. And maybe with Kim Kardashian and so on it is turning back to that.
Um…it is really problematic to base what actual men think on what a magazine thinks are “ideal” women. Many men I know who look at Playboy think these women are beautiful (and know that photos, whether photoshopped or not are not ‘real’ life at all), but not necessarily ideal. Seriously-we deal with what we’re given, right? Playboy is ubiquitous and easy to find. If we want some quick porn, it’s an easy place to go. But who is in Playboy is not a reflection of what most/many actual men actually like. Most men will look at fairly attractive women naked regardless of whether they are their “ideal” or not, and that’s all Playboy is-looking at cookie-cutter, pretty, women. It’s an insult to men to say that who is in Playboy represents most men’s (or even most white men’s) desires.
What it does represent is the beauty/hollywood industry standard that makes tons and tons of money off of making women feel like less than a human being unless they look a certain way and–surprise!–must spend lots of money to do so (there’s a reason why it’s mostly rich celebrities that look “ideal”) and they also make tons of money peddling magazines and advertisements that reinforce who the “hot” women are that men “ought to” find hot, so that regular non-photoshopped women without hair and makeup stylists will keep spending money to attempt to achieve the image the capitalist beauty machine gives them.
And don’t be fooloed-Marilyn Monroe had plastic surgery, used to put gel inserts into her dresses so her breasts would look fuller and perkier and had her dresses sewn several sizes too small to make her waist look smaller without having to use a garter. So the Marilyn “ideal” is bullshit. She was just as much a product of the beauty machine as any.
Thu 26 Jun 2008 at 21:19:26
I completely agree that Hollywood – and the fashion industry – has this idea of beauty that they pretty much made up and are pushing it hard to make money. If you are black it is cruel because you are never going to look like that, but studies have shown that it hits white women harder – with anorexia and lower feelings of self-worth and so on. Probably because they think they have a chance and try but then fail.
White women seem to buy into Hollywood beauty more than anyone else. White men are affected by it, through their women, but have more sense of proportion as you say.
Playboy does not prove anything by itself and I never said it did. I said “if you go by” it. If. But the women in it have been getting thinner and thinner – we know that because their measurements have been dutifully recorded since at least 1960. And, since it has been under the same editor all that time, a man whose idea of what he likes in women is not going to change all that much over time – I do not think they would have got thinner unless he felt that was the way white American society as a whole was moving. If he does not keep up, then his magazine will fall by the wayside.
Good comment.
Fri 27 Jun 2008 at 05:04:07
Tocarra Jones, when she is happy with her weight, is thick – not fat like the judges on the “Celebrity Fit Club” said.
And just how exactly do you know she is happy at any given weight? Do you know her personally? Do you know what she says to herself in the morning?
Frankly, I think you are fat-hating and calling it being open minded about weight.
How exactly do you know that what you personally like is what all black men like? I am FAT, by your standards and by mine. I like it this way. I’m also (with no real bearing on this whole issue) White and Female, and I have no end of black/latino/philipino/indian men hitting on me (not as many white guys, but who really cares.) Fat has no bearing on how much dick I could get. and your personal tastes do not mean every body like you (age/race/culture/gender) has the same.
I respect what you were attempting to do, open up the eyes of people to the different kinds of beauty, but you definatly, and obviously put down most women. A small percentage would fit into the narrow, thin waist, thick hips category. If you are gonna widen the eyes of the pubic, open them wider!!!!
Fri 27 Jun 2008 at 09:59:25
Thank you for reminding these women, that no matter how talented they are, all that really matters is the shape of thier bones.
My daughter was starting to get all these crazy ideas, about having a career, so it was great to be able to show her, what a womens worth really is.
Sat 28 Jun 2008 at 11:51:12
Reading these comments inspired me to go eat a huge tub of fudge, because I need to get fat in a hurry to make sure that men like abagond NEVER hit on me again.
I know a woman is supposed to be crushed by the idea that you won’t be staring at her, yet for some reason I can’t seem to feel anything but joy at the thought.
Sat 28 Jun 2008 at 19:00:13
This is pretty fucking disturbing. I am appalled and disgusted by this dehumanizing assesment of women’s bodies. And then you say you “can’t help it”. Losers. Excuse me while I go vomit.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:16:37
Suki T:
Point taken about Toccara – I was going by a reality television show, which is edited to make a better story. But as presented on television, Toccara was happy with her weight because she looked great – and she did to me too, if I am allowed to say that. But then the judges told her she was still fat – probably because her BMI was still over 25. Which it probably was.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:20:43
Suki T: thick goes all the way from Jennifer Hudson to just about Rihanna. That is a very broad range that most black women hit without even trying in their 20s. They do not even have to keep in shape – just not overeat. I said “most” because some are naturally thin.
So I do not think what I like in women is that demanding.
It is certainly way easier to hit than what Hollywood and Vogue and the rest push. They are helping to spread anorexia, I am not.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:22:14
grateful: calling people names will make you feel good for five minutes but it is not going to change anything. I deleted your comment because that is all you did.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:27:01
fragiletiger: I am not in control of Hollywood. I do not own a magazine or a major cable outlet. So your daughter can relax and follow her dreams. The stuff I talked about in this post does matter for modelling – you have to be thin and so bones do matter – but please do not put that on me. I am completely against the white stick women that are pushed down everyone’s throats as beautiful.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:30:20
zdk: Oh please. Get a life. You need to read the post for yourself and not let Feministe tell you what to think. I did not make myself into God’s gift to women, Feministe did. So get off of it.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:31:36
Doctress Julia: you too need to read the post for yourself and stop being a Feministe sheep.
Sun 29 Jun 2008 at 02:33:00
I love thick black women. They are beautiful. They turn me on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nothing. It is the way God or Evolution or whatever made me as a man.
That is all there is to it.
I am only saying what I prefer in women. I am not setting myself up as a judge of all women. I simply do not have that kind of power. I am not even Hugh Hefner or Anna Wintour, who do have some power over what we see as beautiful in women.
More:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/hey-you-feministe/
Mon 30 Jun 2008 at 06:36:15
Just for the record, here is how Renee of Feministe misunderstood this post:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/the-feministe-reading-of-this-blog/
Wed 2 Jul 2008 at 13:23:03
Thin wow your generalizations are completely unfounded. As someone who has been both straight up fat and “thick” (size 6/8), I can say that it is much easier to be thin. You are treated much better, people don’t make comments in disgust of how you “let yourself go”. People don’t tell you you’re going to die, and when you do go on a diet or alter your eating habits, people don’t tell you you’re going to fail, and what you need to do to be normal.
I remember when I lost weight (I did it with aid of diet pills, vomiting, and eating 800 calories a day), I got so many compliments when it got noticeable about how fast I was losing weight and how great I looked. Even when I passed out and went to the hospital for not eating enough, people would tell me not to let the hospital thing be a set back, just keep doing what I was doing. I’ve never been encouraged as a fat girl to eat more.
In terms of the workplace you don’t get treated as incompetent and lazy when you are thin, but you do when you are fat. I can’t really help you play the victim on this one Thin. The stats show you get better treatment than a fat person ever could.
I have a feeling you are a white women, because you are now starting to thinly veil the black women attack me at the workplace I don’t know why syndrome, when you could have done something to provoke such things.
You also confuse thick with fat very easily. Star Jones was fat, not curvaceous. In my smallest I will still have DD boobs, and my pants without alteration will always be too loose in the waist and perfect fit in the hips and thighs. I am thick, not fat, but thick. Fat women can have no booty, have no waist, just like thin women.
——-
But on the real White Men tend to be More Abusive then Black Men..
Huh, where did this come from?
Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 04:11:51
Siditty: Thank you so much! I find it strange that thin women get upset at me when all of society favours them!
Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 07:32:24
I am fat, dark skinned and I have natural (nappy) beautiful hair. When I straighten it it is long. But I am beautiful. I never have had any trouble getting a man. Real men know a real women when they see her even if she does not fit the status quo. Love you blog. We need more sites like this. Also can you write about wearing our hair natural as oppossed to processed. I believe that if we spent our money and other resources on our natural hair instead of assuming we must fit in and straighten it we would find all kinds of beautiful styles. Women we control the way we look. Let us define for ourselves what beauty is and men will have no choice but to follow or turn gay. Keep up the good work!!!
Thu 3 Jul 2008 at 20:25:05
Thanks so much. I already did a post on dreadlocks. I plan to do one on Afros. I will probably do one on natural hair in general too.
Fri 4 Jul 2008 at 21:38:30
In response to an earlier comment, this IS a very positive and uplifting blog IMO
Sat 12 Jul 2008 at 03:54:53
aa
Sat 12 Jul 2008 at 04:08:20
I am saddened by these comments. I am full figured or fat or whatever you wanna call it. Dary April 9th comment is making references that black men do not want a heavy women. You might be right. I find myself at home alone and no men ask me out. it is pressure like that it prevents me from losing weight. I am educated, pretty but I get no love because I am heavy. I think it is unfair that black men have to isolate me and other heavy women they way that they do. What I supposed to roll over and die because of my weight? Someone should kill me and put black men out of their misery for seeing a fat woman. I deserve someone too! I do not deserve to be alone because I am heavy. I am reading these comments and no one gives heavy women love. Just imagine what it is like to be me…. being heavy. Black men don’t look at me and they don’t speak. This is awful. All because I am not skinny or thick. Abagond you are writing about everyone but me. That just tells me what you think. I do not eat a thousand cheese burgers. I just received my masters, I am pretty, I keep myself up and very independent but it is overlooked because of this skinny thick preference. It is very lonely when the world see you as ugly and disgusting. You all have no heart about heavy women. Try to be me for a day and here all these bullshit comments it is unbelievable. Although black men hate heavy women I will continue to keep my head up. Everyone thanks for the hurtful comments. they are rememorable.
Sun 20 Jul 2008 at 13:38:28
I think there is too much emphasis to find women in categories as opposed to dealing with the individual beauty of each woman. Black men don’t seem to like thin women at all. I am slender but athletic. During my teens and twenties, black men would make comments such as some of the ones I have read, “she is too skinny, if she was just a little more thick, etc”. In fact, I dated white men exclusively until I met my ex-husband and he was a body builder.
As far as my opinion of thick and fat women are concerned. There is a reason for maintaining an adequate weight. With every 10 pounds above what is normal for your size, you increase your blood pressure by 10 points on average. High blood pressure can eventually lead to heart failure as well as kidney disease. People are pushing this so called “thick” body image as healthy. However, being in my profession, I am horrified by the young, “thick” black and Latino’s who are in kidney failure and awaiting transplants.
Sun 20 Jul 2008 at 20:32:24
tammy and MSDAY:
1. There are black men who like thin and fat women, not all of them like just thick women.
2. Speaking from my experience as a married man, you have to like your wife not just as a friend but at a deep physical level. Women want a man who wants them, wants them deep down. And that kind of want is not something you can fake. It is either there or it is not. So in my own case for me to pursue thin or fat women would be a waste of everyone’s time. I have to go for the women that turn me on deep down, the ones that make me lose my head.
I hope that made sense.
Sun 20 Jul 2008 at 20:46:55
I shouldn’t have said black men, I should have said some black men. I hate dealing in absolutes because they are always false. I stand corrected.
Mon 21 Jul 2008 at 02:57:27
I am not calling myself fat. I don’t have high blood pressure either. Just because you are overweight does not mean you are unhealthy. As i said I have a lot of qualities that do not have nothing to do with my weight. I just think black and white men are full of shit the way they think of full figured women.
Mon 21 Jul 2008 at 03:00:31
I am sure that many of the men that talk shit about heavy women, their is someone in their family that they love are overweight. They don’t say my fat aunt they would say her name. I am also sure they would want their full-figured aunt to be married and happy and not be judged because of her weight.
Mon 21 Jul 2008 at 03:07:19
Abagond I think it was offensive to put about Monique: Women so fat they do not have much of a figure. Fat is a nasty blob of shit inside the body and it is ugly. I am not that!
Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 07:44:43
MSDAY:
Oh wow, you do have a blog! That is great news. I added it to my blogroll. Thank you!
Wed 23 Jul 2008 at 07:55:08
Tammy: Monique is fat. Words need to have meanings or language breaks down and truth becomes impossible. But no way would I say she is “a nasty blob of shit inside the body and it is ugly.” I do not see her that way.
Yes, I love women who are fat, like my mother. My wife was thick when I married her but she has grown fat over the years, but I do not love her any less for that and she still turns me on.
I have no idea what you look like, but from the way you talk I am pretty sure you are better looking than you think.
Thu 24 Jul 2008 at 05:49:33
The word fat is insulting. I would not want anyone to call me the N word because I am African American. I do feel that saying fat is name calling this is my point. I am full-figured not fat. I look at fat as people saying you are ugly and do not belong in a category with beautiful women. I notice Abagond you talk about the women on the post as tick as if temping to date then Monique so fat without a figure. If you want to be fair do a page on heavy women and their beauty. You probably won’t because yourself and others here wouldn’t give a shit then. Abagond you are not the only ass on here there are others.
Thu 24 Jul 2008 at 17:21:45
Good suggestion.
I know that women are very sensitive about the word “fat”. That is why I said as little as possible about it in this post and had only one example, Monique. But I had to say something to make it clear what I meant by “thick”.
I know it may be hard to believe, but I mean the word “fat” only as a description, not as a put-down.
I do not use the word “full-figured” because it is a euphemism. It is not an honest word. To use it would prove that I did think there was something wrong with being “fat”.
I have been accused of fat hatred, but most of that hatred comes from the self-hatred of commenters not from me.
I have said what kind of woman I like and others take that as a put-down of women that do not fit that description. It was never meant that way and such comments blindsided me. It is impossible for me to like all women equally.
Wed 30 Jul 2008 at 03:07:56
….In response to darkhalf, where are you getting your information when you say that White men tend to be more abusive then Black men? Whether white or black, abusive men who choose to beat on a woman are the scum of the earth so going around tryiing to justify most white men as abusive is inaccurate.
And another thing, keep your head up sistahs who have refuted some of these sexist arguments! lol!
Funny how once again as I stated before, that Black men today are in a HORRIBLE state of thinking. Not all Black men are like this however, it’s just sad that it seems that Eurocentric views that stems all the way from the 16th century still has us in their grips so tightly that we still struggle to respect and have a genuine appreciation for ourselves. Seeing forums like this try to validate the worth of a Black women SOLEY based on her hips and thighs just reiterated how fucked up we truly are as a society.
Preferences=reality but distorted body images and stereotypes=a disgust for mankind and is very unnatural!
Rod, I don’t appreciate how you try to objectify Black woman with your tirade on how you feel so so sorry for thick women because White America is intimidated by ethnic beauty variations. I know where your ideals are coming from…your loins and thus you think it’s okay to openly share your disgust for any BLACK WOMAN who you don’t deem is physically appropriate to your liking. I agree with — when she said she will eat a tub of ice cream to loose her waist so guys like you won’t be attracted to her! lol!! Me too girl, because WHY ON EARTH WOULD I WANT TO DATE OR MARRY A MAN THAT ONLY APPRICIATES ME B/C MY HIPS ARE THICK…when that fades then what would we be left with??
I guess then you would rationalize that leaving me would be the next option because you can’t stand how my body has transformed….God forbid I was to get sick and loose that perfect figure, because it is your manly duty to be only attracted to a woman by her physical and not by who she really is.
See this is why there are so many on-going debates about the dysfunctional relationship between Black women and men in general. I know after all this dialogue; there will still be stubborn, narrow-minded, sexist views because ppl just refuse to be –. Keep in mind that all this talk about Black women’s value is what the White man purposely started and while I can no longer blame Whites for the damage that has been done, I blame the Black men who consistently allow this type of vile treatment towards their own kind. Black men, you came from a Black woman (if you mixed, you still have deep rooted blood ties to your African ancestry) and the more you speak degrading things about her shape, the more you disrespect your roots and yourselves.
Wed 30 Jul 2008 at 03:40:03
I am no psychologist, but I thank God that he has granted me a little common sense. It seems to me like the Black men who choose to pick apart a black woman’s body must feel a little insecure about themselves. If this is your issue, then please try to get a remedy immediately b/c most of the problems that Blacks face today comes from Black hatred for ourselves. Most of you may be thinking, “oh no, I have high self-esteem and I love myself and my Black queen.” Reality, your hypocritical views create generational curses that will teach next generation that it is okay to disrespect Black women. I hate to keep going back to hip-hop and the video vixen trend, but PLEASE, if you don’t see how reducing a woman to the size of her ass is degrading then you need to get some extreme spiritual healing and a few therapy sessions because something is majorly wrong with you.
We all wanna sit up and write dissertations and books bashing European colonialism and the affects that it has had on Black life today, but we turn around and do the same damn shit. When White men thought it was entertaining to put Sara Bartman on a podium and laugh and jeer about how big her gentile and buttock were, we think how sick b/c we see racism at it’s lowest.
But no one ever stops to think that putting Meylssa Ford in a video, slapping her on her ass and basically treating her like an object only viewed for sex is sick and twisted. But oh no, Rob would say. Because see, White America doesn’t appreciate her ethnic features so hip hop and Black men like me are doing her a favor b/c we are appreciating her body in a way that White people aren’t. It’s okay for Beyonce to be a rumpshaking singer because she is making a statement to all Black girls…love your curves because essentially that’s all you are worth.
But when Christina A and Britany S. try to pull that mess, White America had a panic attack because that’s not what they want their little girls looking up to. Once again, White America has their ills about body issues, but I hear them making more of a fuss about waif thin models in fashion magazine and Lohan wanna-bees influencing their generation of women than I hear Black men speak up on behalf of us and the ills that we face today.
It’s a sad reality that the White man still got Black men heads. Rod, at least try to be smart and realize that publicly ranting about how skinny and fat women are unappealing to makes you look more than insensitive. Know that your mindset is being heard by your peers and a younger generation that is listening and being influenced by thoughts. Know that you are doing more damage to Black people as a whole that what White people can ever do. As long as we have the power, White people can throw out tricks that will try to set us against one another, but we gotta be a little bit wiser than that and take control over how we should treat ourselves and one another.
Wed 30 Jul 2008 at 22:09:45
I agree with you Erica 100%. However, I feel black men pick and choose with black women so much that the only attractive women in their eye sight is the Beyonce thick women. They don’t appreciate black women for nothing except if you only have a round ass. It seem we stick with black men whenever their asses go to jail or complain about how the white men is holding them back from a job. They are selfish.
Thu 31 Jul 2008 at 01:11:20
Tammy & Erica: you both go too far. There is more to a woman than her sex appeal and I think most men know that. As carried away as I get sometimes, even I see that:
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2006/07/10/woman/
Fri 1 Aug 2008 at 00:55:45
What do you know abagond you hate heavy women. You love your wife because she grew on you and you have no choice. You are not much different then most men its just you may not word it as mean. What I said may be offensive but you should read many of your comments.
Fri 1 Aug 2008 at 23:56:38
Hate seems pretty strong. It sounds like you are overstating your case. But I will reread my comments and see.
Mon 11 Aug 2008 at 21:40:08
I really and truly believe that people are reading too deep into this!!!! This man is simply saying what he prefers and what he thinks. Everybody has their OWN OPINION about everything whether it be right or wrong but we can’t simply beat him up for what HE THINKS!!!! If more women was TRULY HAPPY with who they are and what they look like then this post wouldn’t bother people the way it has. That leads me to believe that a lot of women are not really happy with themselves if all it took was this posts for people to get all defensive. I read this post and I’m soooooo secure with who I am that this didn’t bother me one bit!!!! I took this post as just a man simply expressing what he thinks and prefers in women. If you are not secure in who you are than you don’t need to be mad when what you read in this post/blog pisses you off. The problem isn’t with Abagond it’s with you and how you TRULY feel about yourself. I’m a black woman who is extremely confident. I have preferences just like Abagond and it doesn’t make me a sick person. He was simply clearing up what HE BELIEVES to be thin, thick, and fat. I don’t recall ever reading in this posts where he stated that any of these women in each of these categories were ugly, gross, pathetic, unattractive, etc. So whoever takes personal offense to this just really needs to rethink how they feel about about themselves ( I say this with love) because a lot of the posts I read were really putting words into his mouth or misinterpreted what he was trying to say. Although, I do agree the MoNique thing should have been worded a little differently, but I do get what you (abagond) was trying to express/explain. I agree with you Erica and I feel what you saying but your posts needs to be a discussion all by itself, lol. Erica, girl Black America needs a lot of help from body types to skin tones and what we feel is superior within our own culture!!!!! I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the whole darkskin vs lightskin debate but that another topic! God Bless!
Mon 11 Aug 2008 at 21:59:06
Oh yes, i forgot to mention that individual beauty does matter but it’s up to us to decide that. We should NEVER let other people validate that for us. I decided a long time ago that I was beautiful. I don’t wait for any man or women for that matter decide that for me! I’m comfortable in my skin, but this blog/posts wasn’t about that. Abagond was speaking in general. All men are different no matter what color they are. He can’t speak for each individual man. Hope I didn’t offend anyone!!!! Much Love!!!!
Tue 12 Aug 2008 at 06:39:18
I agree. Thank you.
Wed 13 Aug 2008 at 06:19:24
I don’t agree agree.
Wed 13 Aug 2008 at 06:30:38
I express my opinion like everybody else. Just like I get tired of white people always making health references against blacks. wW get the most heart attacks, strokes, hypertension and some whites think we started HIV. They never mention its a lot of overweight white women and most of them get over 500 pounds when they get over weight. Because I don’t like that reference and express it doesn’t mean I am insecure. Anyway, America is conditioned to heavy-set people are over attractive. You can see this in videos, movies and everyday life. Most men don’t prefer heavy women because of that. But I do believe black men have more hatured toward heavy women. That doesn’t matter because most black men have flaws anyway, too many baby mommas, no job, thugs or mess around with too many women. Then they talk about heavy women. Go figure!
Another thing, Abagond are you a white guy?
Wed 13 Aug 2008 at 06:33:40
For something that started out so simple…whew!
Wed 13 Aug 2008 at 06:33:46
The last post, the words are a little scrabbled from typing too fast. It supposed to say America is conditioned to think heavy-set women are unattractive.
Wed 13 Aug 2008 at 06:42:17
This is not an argue but just my opinion as it is yours Abagond expressing your feelings about thick and thin women minus the heavy women. Right?
Thu 14 Aug 2008 at 12:18:44
I am not sure. It is hard to make sense of what you wrote. But there is conditioning to see fat women as unattractive, I agree with that.
Fri 15 Aug 2008 at 05:13:12
You didn’t answer the question abagond, are you a white guy?
Fri 15 Aug 2008 at 11:43:41
Read more of my blog and you will know.
Sat 16 Aug 2008 at 08:03:48
Erica, ZDK and Tiger, I agree with you 101%. From my prespective, these type of men are not the kinds of men that I want to attract anyways. I am thin and I don’t attract men who just view women as pieces of meat. Those types of men seem to be very lustful, therefore not being completely faithful to their wife/girlfriend.
A lot of men who prefer thin women are still men, but they seem more sophisticated, intellectual and educated. While they appreciate their wife/girlfriends beauty and sex appeal (and yes, thin women ARE sexy), they don’t seem quite as lustful and they’re more selective.
Sat 16 Aug 2008 at 15:37:16
I am sure the most selective guys have the smaller packages between their legs. They want to be picky but are coming up short where it counts. I have a problem with men who only select thin women or only heavy women. Normally if it is only thin women they are shallow if it is only heavy women they have insecurities themselves. Now I noticed thick is the most appealing to most black men so if they prefer mostly thick they are pleasing their buddies. My point is there is beauty in every size. Just because a women is heavy, it does not mean she’s unattractive. It is all about how you carry yourself and where your weight lands. However if your weight is landing in undireable places so what there is a man that still love that particular women. it appears that people want to exclude others for not being desireable to black men’s fantasy. They may say that but still fuck anything. Men don’t even do their fantasy women right so why sit and talk about type of women they want. This conversation is a bit shallow. A real man would know what!
Mon 18 Aug 2008 at 19:08:17
Tammy: LOL!! You crack me up with “most selective guys have the smaller packages between their legs.” That’s EXACTLY what it is!! lol.
Tue 19 Aug 2008 at 18:22:55
Tammy, yeah that’s really mature. First of all, how do you know what these men have between their legs. You DON’T. That was just an childish dig because you had nothing else to say.
I’m thin, and that is not true. TRUST.
And, all women are beautiful. Which is what irks me about this entire post. My point is – why put down thin women to lift heavy women up?
Wed 20 Aug 2008 at 00:23:30
And also – where it counts is between his ears and his heart. Not what’s between his legs. Grow up!
Thu 21 Aug 2008 at 05:21:33
Maybe its just me but I appreciate both thick and thin women. I definitely like a nice booty but its not a requirement and thin women can definitely be sexy. Thin black women you are beautiful too don’t ever let these black men out here make you think you aren’t. My attractions cover a wider range than most black men though, I just think black women are beautiful period each in their own way as well as women of other races. And I agree bashing thin women to lift up thicker women is not cool, just like what you like without putting down the opposite.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 02:10:45
Thank you, RayRay! I wish that all men could be more like you. Open to ALL kinds of beauty. And yes, black men a lot of times do degrade thin black women and make them feel less womanly and attractive.
And if you do have a preference, that’s fine. Don’t put down other women. Finally, someone who gets what I’m expressing.
Classy, classy guy!
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 05:17:32
I didn’t bash thin women first of all. My intentions with statement is saying how shallow men are by getting on websites talking about any type women as if they are objects. I made references to all women in that post. So you grow up and re-read my statements you sun of a bitch.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 05:25:13
If you want to look at how heavy women are bashed go on youtube.com and type in sergeant willie pete in the search engine and listen to some of his videos. He hates heavy women but also talks bad about black women in general. He is black also but is fed up with black women’s attitude. He has a video called fat women enabling themselves. Check that video out. He thinks that constructive criticism is the way to get black women to listen to him. So believe me i am not putting anyone down except for men who put women in general down. These videos I’m talking about is a strong example of putting a group of people down.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 05:29:34
I think anyway people put down heavy women more than anybody. I don’t see men putting plus size women in their videos. But there will be skinny women. I strongly suggest to go on youtube and typw sergeant willie pete and many other videos because you will definiately hear men talking very discriminatory about heavy women. There is also many post behind the videos where other men and women are in an agreement with each other about heavy women. So that is putting people down.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 05:31:27
Monique is the only women to represent heavy women. How shallow. She is not the only heavy woman and there are pretty heavy women abagond believe it or not.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 16:07:03
Please name some and I will gladly put them up.
People are always telling me that I do not have enough of some kind of woman, but then they are short on names.
The reason I put up only one fat woman is because I know women do not like being called fat.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 16:32:37
Sgt Willie Pete is simply being honest and upfront. It does not seem to be out of hatred. Criticism does not always mean hatred.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 20:49:47
You have not heard many of his videos abagond. He think men should overlook heavy women and should talk about them. You should also read many of the comments on his page.
Of cousre women will not suggest fat women to be put up because that name is insulting. Like i said before that is name calling. Full-figured is a different story. For thin women you didn’t put up bag of bones. You said thin and you didn’t put skinny up either. It appears you watched what you said when it was thin women because you favor them.
Fri 22 Aug 2008 at 22:18:59
Maybe you are right.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 01:20:23
Hmmm, I may be right but the fat picture of Monique is still up there. Go figure.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 01:43:37
Well, yes: I need a picture of a fat woman there. Toccara Jones and Jennifer Hudson are sometimes fat, but in the pictures you see on the Internet they are not.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 07:30:19
I am done with the conversation of fat. I only respond to full figured. Like you wouldn’t want a woman to refer to your thing as tiny which it probably is.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 08:18:32
Oh, I get it now. Sorry, I am a bit slow. You want me to say “full-figured”, not “fat”.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 14:07:22
Wow! Just finished reading all(well most of the comments) so far. Some of the people who are in opposition to Abagond have good points(i.e. Erica and others like anon). But overall I think Abagond defense is pretty solid. He is just a man expressing his views about thin, thick and fat. I don’t think he meant to say all there is to a black woman is her body. That’s putting words in his mouth.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 16:09:00
I agree with that: Erica and some others made som very good points, but many just read what they wanted to into what I wrote.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 17:04:30
You can say what you want abagond. My point is you tried to make yourself out of a person with a fair argument with how you posted the wording of thin, thick and fat. What I am saying is there is bias but someone is laways going to disagree with you so continue your biasness. it’s ok. Just remember, that doesn’t make you different then many men out there.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 17:07:02
What is puzzling is that you said your wife is heavy. You are putting women who look different then your wife on a pedastal. If I was married I would put my husband features on a pedastal.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 17:23:29
Dear Tammy:
I have pretty much liked the same kind of women since I was about 12 or 13 and I will probably like the very same kind of women when I am 80, assuming I live that long.
When I met my wife she was thick. She has had children and got fat. Like most black women. There is nothing wrong with that. I still love her and even her shape. But that does not mean I stopped liking thick women.
Likewise, when she is old and grey-haired, I am pretty sure I will still like black hair more than grey hair. That does not mean I will stop loving her. I am not like a two-year-old or something. My love for her goes way beyond things like that. She is not just some kind of centrefold to me.
You cannot take a 500-word post and make it my whole of my philosophy. It is not even the whole of what I like physically in women. Eyes, for example, matter more to me than figure.
And, yes, from what I can tell, most men are not much different. If we were as high-minded as you seem to want us to be, there would be many more unhappy women, not fewer. In fact, the race would die out. God made us this way for a reason.
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 19:03:16
High minded are you insulting me?
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 19:06:03
No, not at all. It just seems that you think I am low-minded, though maybe I am misunderstanding something…
Mon 25 Aug 2008 at 19:09:49
If men were high minded they would have some sense. Some men have two problems they need a mind and a dick. Which one are you? Since you had the brain to write this post perhaps you are missing the second choice.
Wed 27 Aug 2008 at 17:02:17
Tammy. Sorry I misunderstood your post. But you didn’t have to get totally 10th grade on me and call me a son of a b*****. That was very disrespectful and not deserved.
Wed 27 Aug 2008 at 18:50:27
Tammy: If the best you can do is call people names or make personal remarks, then clearly you lost the argument.
Thu 28 Aug 2008 at 06:17:33
Anon you didn’t have to get sixth grade on me and started charging me. Two way street.
Thu 28 Aug 2008 at 06:20:42
Abagond, you are the one with this unclear post and expect no reaction. I don’t have to argue with you especially when you are shallow.
Fri 29 Aug 2008 at 06:43:23
Tammy, I’m done with you. It’s difficult to reason with someone who is so unreasonable.
Fri 29 Aug 2008 at 19:33:52
Anon, I was talking about the same thing you were about degrading women. I was making more reference with heavy women due to the fact Abagond only has one heavy women to represent. But I was also talking about all women if you go back and read my post. I don’t agree with degrading any size of women. I felt that Abagond was doing that in his reference to heavy women. You attacked me and I was not saying anything no different then you. So when you say you are done with me, we never had anything to start with. You just misunderstood me!
Sat 20 Sep 2008 at 20:57:17
Sista, I agree and disagree with some of your points:
“Actually the statement that White men like thin women is quite false. Were that true, explain their obsession with their most beloeved White woman of all time; Marilyn Monroe? Also why do these same men OPENLY go crazy over Jennifer Lopez, Coco and Kim Kardashian? I submit to you that White Supremacy plays a major role in what is portrayed as the White man’s taste when in actuality one need only open their eyes to see that they love many things about the look of Black women, lips and butts, but love them more when they are attached to White women.”
I agree that white men like the lips and butts of African American women, but not that these attributes have to be attached to white women. What about Beyonce, Jennifer Hudson, Rihanna and other popular African American women?
“America will never glorify the beauty of Afrikan women but will do all they can to have it for themselves.”
Well, the ‘Afrikan’ women on this page are absolutely gorgeous and they include dark, medium and light skinned.
“Butt implants are now the third most sought after surgery for White women, behind nose jobs and breast implants.”
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
“Men are men and beauty is beauty and they recognize it. I am a Melyssa Ford shaped women who is 5′9- so I am full bodied and tall, which is quite eye catching. I get looks from all men, Black, White, Arab, Asian- you name it.”
On that I totally agree!
Mon 22 Sep 2008 at 01:45:27
catagories should be:
anorexic
skinny
slender
petite
slim
average (balance of what size is healthy)
thick
curvacious
big
large
fat
obese
MoNique is not ‘fat’ , she is ‘Big’ or ‘large’ this is fat: http://rpg.leesux.com/hugefat.jpg
List should be more complex then this above. The list indicated by the one starting this topic seems to be a one sided view morphed into what one general person thinks it should be which in turn puts alot of people in the wrong categories.
Mon 22 Sep 2008 at 02:59:27
So how would you categorize the women listed in the post?
Mon 22 Sep 2008 at 05:25:26
Abagond you are narrow minded, you won’t change it anyway so you might as well don’t ask.
Mon 22 Sep 2008 at 05:26:58
Thanks cookiesncream for breaking that down. As I look at myself according to your rating I am not fat or obese. That put a smile to my face this is something i haven’t heard.
Mon 22 Sep 2008 at 05:28:09
regardless to what so called fat or obese women should still be respected though. No one deserves to be picked on or alone.
Tue 23 Sep 2008 at 01:33:44
Despite my narrow-mindedness, I would still be curious to know!
Sat 27 Sep 2008 at 19:27:50
As a White male, I have dated women of color for the past 12-14 years, and I prefer the women I date to be THICK!!! Maybe i am not the NORM after all.
Wed 8 Oct 2008 at 02:39:08
James Says:
Sat 27 Sep 2008 at 19:27:50
“As a White male, I have dated women of color for the past 12-14 years, and I prefer the women I date to be THICK!!! Maybe i am not the NORM after all.”
That would make at least two of us.
Sun 26 Oct 2008 at 21:56:53
wow i really like this post its interesting
yea im only 16 but still i guess am a little insecure abou tthe way i look, i thought all guys liked skinny girls: the skinnier, the better. I have always hated my butt (too big) until now. so thanks
Tue 28 Oct 2008 at 19:01:59
Joi I think skinny will never be out of style it is as long as you are not fat although thick is preferred. Fat is the worst thing you can be to black men. They look at you almost like a man when your fat.
Wed 29 Oct 2008 at 01:14:49
Many people don’t know the difference between thick and just plain fat.
Fri 31 Oct 2008 at 03:58:19
well what i want to say that i have nothing wrong how the guy separate the bodies into skinny, thick and fat. but to say that thin women have nothing is false because girls that are skinny do have curves. look at halle berry, vida guerra, megan good, and many other women. i agree with erica about how she felt. i think it’s wrong to disrespect a woman just because she doesn’t have a big ass or have curves. i mean there’s nothing wrong having curves but that’s not the only thing that represents beauty. between you and me, not every girl wants to be skinny as much as people talk about it. hollywood likes to glamorize thinking that being a size 0 is beautiful and doesn’t show positive images of skinny women that don’t have bones sticking out of their bodies. hell people thought i was too skinny and i wasn’t. i had some guys say that i need more meat on my bones or people would say, “why you so skinny”?, as if it was a bad thing. girls can’t help how they weigh because god didn’t create women to look the same. you shouldn’t have to diss thin women just to uplift thicker women because it hurts their feelings as well. in the world we live in right now, everybody is addicted to losing weight just to fit in or get plastic surgery. so what are we teaching young girls because they look at the women on t.v. and magazines and they feel that they’re not skinny enough or thick enough. and guys need to understand that every girl is gonna have a big butt and should accept the girl for who she is and not how thick she is. we all have our preferences on how we want in someone, but shouldn’t have to put people down because of what you like. look at what young berg did when he called dark skinned women “dark butt” and how he felt that they weren’t that attractive. i understand you like light skinned women but don’t go around disrespecting dark skinned women just to make a point. what i’m trying to say is accept someone for who they are and not how she or he looks. beauty comes in all shapes and sizes but no one seems to look at it that way. i may not have the body like beyonce, bria myles, or women that is thick, doesn’t mean i’m not beautiful because i am and i do have a butt lol. i feel comfortable with my body and shouldn’t have to change it just to please someone and that goes out to women that feel that aren’t attractive and look deep inside that you are beautiful and accept the body you have.
Sat 1 Nov 2008 at 21:35:19
I understand you perfectly, lil vina about skinny women and i’ll agree that many skinny women do have shapes however when you are fat or heavy, many men run away from you. You are the joke on the playground. Men do not want to ask you to dance or go out on dates. It is far worst being heavy because everyone thinks you are unhealthy and unattractive. I would bet a lot of money; most women would rather look like Jada Pinkett than Monique and guys rather date Jada as well. This is not an insecure comment but it is how many people think.
Sat 1 Nov 2008 at 21:44:35
Or just because you are heavy does not mean you do not have a figure. Abagond needs to know that!
Sun 2 Nov 2008 at 06:59:02
well tammy you are right about that but there are some guys who would date a girl that does have meat on her bones whether she’s thick or fat than a girl that’s skinny. i wrote this because there are girls who are skinny and they don’t like their bodies because their not shaped like beyonce or the girls you see in the rap videos and they were picked on because of their figure. yes hollywood has made america thinking that being a size 0 is beautiful but not every girl thinks that. i don’t because when i was younger i wanted to have the thick body that guys wanted in high school. i mean i am skinny but i do have some curves but i wanted more. as i got older i realize i wanted to look like that just to get guys attention and i didn’t want a guy to want me for my body or how big my butt is. hollywood doesn’t show positive images of how skinny women look. not all girls that are skinny is built like that unless they’re naturally thin. skinny women can have it just as bad as women who are thick or full figured. beauty shouldn’t have to be someone’s shaped of their body, it should also be their personality and how they treat you. people shouldn’t have to blame skinny for how they look because they were born that way. just because hollywood accept size 0s doesn’t mean society as a whole does. and yes there are women who is full figured who do take care of themselves and healthy as well. look at jennifer hudson and queen latifah, both of them have shapes because they take care of themselves. i have nothing against abagond and how he separated women’s body types but i don’t like how people on this board say that skinny women playing the victim role or how people diss skinny women just to make thick women feel better. two wrongs don’t make a right. like thin said, it’s not her fault that hollywood glamorize thin women and brainwash people into thinking we must look that way. we live in a society that everybody hates the way they look and then turn to plastic surgery just to fit in what society think it’s beautiful and to me, nobody really knows what beautiful means because we’re too busy picking on people because of their bodies and not uplifting them. i appreciate my body and i may not look like the women that abagond describe but i still love myself and don’t need nobody telling i’m not beautiful.
Sun 2 Nov 2008 at 21:29:09
You may want a thick body lil vina but you didn’t say a fat body either. That is my point. Look at how abagond worded fat. He said women so fat they don’t have much of a figure and put only one picture up. I am a heavy girl but i am not as large as Monique but i know what it feels like to be the fat friend and I would be last on a guys list. My skinny friends had dates growing up and I didn’t. Guys would talk about me and my heavy friends and i hated going out so I just had a movie date with myself. It is hard being overweight because even now things are different but i still hear guys saying “Well you got a cute face.” What the fuck is that supposed to mean. But I am not good enough to date. I am sorry but most cute guys do not have a big women but they have a skinny or small women. However, I am fine with myself but i am working on my weight and I do not need abagond or any other guys to approve of me but i still see discriminatory attitudes of heavy women that guys display.
Mon 3 Nov 2008 at 08:02:03
true i have a friend that feels the same way you do but she loves who she is doesn’t have to change herself for no man. you don’t have to change your body for a man nor should you wait for someone to tell that you’re beautiful. you should know that you’re beautiful. there will be someone that will love you for who you are and god is gonna give it to you. the only thing i can say is guys will be guys because there are most guys that won’t date a girl that’s fat but some guys will. you never know and guys don’t always go for the girls that’s not shaped like a coke bottle. like i said we live in a world that’s obsessed with the way they look because they listening to what hollywood thinks or other people think. unless we ignored them and not care then this world will continued to be obsessed with the way they look.
Mon 10 Nov 2008 at 23:19:45
Lil’vina
~Bravo! Beautifully stated.
Wed 12 Nov 2008 at 05:22:47
Get REAL.sisters are very overweight in the country.They listen to mens viewpoints and disreguard healthy eating patterns and get fatter and fatter.They pack on all this weight listening to these men,who want them for easy sex-and to have a broad who oays rent,cooks&watch kids while they run the street.and they never cheat w a fatter one than whats at home.You see these sisters with 4-5 kids,no stable man in sight.
meanwhile the countrys filled with single and divorced fat fat black females.with kids
some blac girls by 21 have kille any chances of ever having a husband.which is why we have alot of fa black lesbians with children.
Wed 12 Nov 2008 at 06:11:35
A lot of black women seem to be whats fat delusional.The number of healthy in shape black females is on the RAPID decline.
Thick is 5′7 36-26-36 145 lbs Foxy Brown. any way you slice it,brothers would pick her over these queen latifah types.JACKEE was pushing the boundaries of thick and had a visible gut.If latifah lost weight and could keep a man would she be gay?dunno?
Teenage black girls look 25@15&you think thats cute?If they have a baby they blow up even bigger.
My family is full of shapely NOT obese women&big surprise.NO health problems@all.Not one is 200lbs+a rarity for us.Meanwhile everyone else is 30lbs or more overweight.Most black women have health problems.
Ive been to 100’s of funerals@black churches.80% were women.The main reasons for death: obesity that lead to heart disease,high blood pressure,diabetes.
Cooking,eating,talking bout nothing is what ALOT of black women do,Destroying the whole family with garbage like:
all that pork(which kills black folk more than guns&drugs)fattening fast food,pies,cakes,cookies.No salad,stirfry veggies w lean beef/ grilled chicken.No mention of exercise.
Wed 12 Nov 2008 at 06:47:32
i 4got to add.I know alot of whie men&they DO prefer thin women especially sisters.Marilyn was not even close to fat a these so called thick women.Back then most white women had tht boyish bxom figure.So there were few choices.Yet she still was not close to being all that.American black women are the only ones who are getting fat among black races from all over the world.
Because they do less physical activity and eat more and mosty poor diets.And i agree w the dude above they listen to the opinion of these players ho only want a sex toy or a babys mama to carry on their seed.the hos in the videos are not fat like the majority of sistrs walking around.They forgot how good sisters looked i the past.Envogue,fly girls,supremes,look@sisters throughout pop culture up to now.Its depressing.
Most black men who date white women are trying to prove something or think it wll elevate his status in a white u.s. thats racist.41% voted for mccain!!Thinking they got something so special when its far from true.They are much nastier than black females sexually and personality and in spirit.I personally know from dealing w white women &nigga after nigga i know getting burned the same way.Same shit happens>>White girls love 2be different,&rebel aganst their family,and in their group they love the reactions they get and saying “my boyfriends black” yada yada.They love black dick but cant handle it like a sister.Nor can they handle the shit that comes with beig w a black man.When you cant take being w a white witch (and the spell fades quickly)Watch how bitter&angry she is.Nigga this and that youll be.
These bros kill me chasing these homely white broads dog out siters when black women thin or fat are the most beautiful insde out.Although eventually they dog out the white girls worse cuz thy have 0 street smarts&believe whatever a nigga tell em.And they get more $,cars out of white women<its a pimp game for them .
White girls love to fuck brothers cuz theyre bigger and better.But its usury on both their part.For those who did fid true mutual love w a white women for years and years hats off to you.Only a sister can be down for a black man.They act crazy but are the best for us.
i just hope sisters loose weight to loo even better and be fit.
And i wouldnt give up that for anything.But some black men just dont want a fat sister whch is the majority and thats why theyll look elswhere.
Thu 13 Nov 2008 at 23:09:44
thank you anon! black isrealite, any woman can be fat and unhealthy and it’s not just black women. why do people always got to say something negative to say about black women? there are other black women who do take care of themselves and watch what they eat because of what could happen to them. to be anybody can be unhealthy and it shouldn’t have to determine someone’s race.
Thu 20 Nov 2008 at 05:01:51
Lil’vina, People always have something negative to say about black women because we are the easiest to criticize. Let it roll of your shoulder. This is the world we live in. Don’t take it too heart. Actually, you should take it as a compliment…..think about it.
Fri 21 Nov 2008 at 02:11:09
well shani i appreciate your opinions but i don’t like how people want to put black women down who are thin just because we’re not shaped like a coke bottle or have a fat butt. i’m not taking it to the heart, i’m just giving my opinions like everyone else is doing and i’m gonna let some ignorant people criticize us because of the way we are. god made every women different and we should appreciate it. like i said before hollywood chose skinny women to be the ideal beauty not skinny women so people shouldn’t have to diss thin women just so they can uplift thicker women. hell hollywood don’t represent skinny women well because we’re looked at as being boney, unhealthy, and with no meat. there are lots of women that is skinny do have meat on her bones. yes thicker women do get treated harsher in hollywood but that doesn’t mean everyone in society thinks this way and there are skinny women who don’t feel beautiful because people pick on them for not having the body like beyonce. hell i’m pretty sure beyonce don’t look perfect because people edit out her flaws but people think she’s got this flawless body. why can’t women be accepted for who they are and not be judged for how we look? most men need to keep comments to themselves because the things you say is most of the reason why women have body issues with themselves, especially young girls. so if people don’t have nothing nice to say about any women whether she’s skinny or fat, then don’t say it at all if that’s the case.
Fri 21 Nov 2008 at 03:58:38
Lil’vina,
That’s all I’ve been trying to say. People don’t understand what it is to be the scapegoat for other peoples feelings of inadequecies and insecurities. I’ve been defeminized most of my life because I’m not thick. It made me feel like I was less than – less than a woman, less than beautiful, less than desirable. But not anymore. I am not going to let other people determine my self-worth and self-esteem. But it took me a long time to come to that resolve. I really appreciate how you have stood up for your body type. And GOD does make everyone beautiful and unique.
I am a designer orginal.:)
Fri 21 Nov 2008 at 07:06:24
thank you anon! at least you understand me and where i’m coming from. i’m not trying to put anyone down because i think all body types are beautiful but people shouldn’t have to put someone down because of the way they look. skinny women do feel insecure with their bodies but people don’t see that because they’re so obsessed trying to be skinny. there were times i didn’t like the way i look but you know what? so what? i may not have a big butt or thick hips and thighs but my body shouldn’t have to define me or ANY black woman that is beautiful because we are. we as society can criticize how hollywood puts down women with curves because they don’t think it’s beautiful but turn around and do the same thing to skinny women. so does it make it right? no it doesn’t and i shouldn’t have to feel ashamed for the way i look. i write this because i feel that skinny women have issues with their bodies just as women with curves and i even had some issues. but i’m not gonna change it just to get attention or feel accepted. i think you can be skinny but still have a nice shape. there’s nothing wrong being skinny, thick, or full figured because all those shapes is beautiful to me but nobody can see that because we’re so into what they look like instead of their personalities. skinny women are beautiful no matter what people say because i’m not going to feel guilty about how i look and i encourage women to love who you are and ignore some of the comments that has been made.
Fri 21 Nov 2008 at 07:21:36
To One who Knows and Black Israelite: Both of you are EXTREMELY ignorant if you believe that mess.
Most black women are NOT like that. So shut up with that hateful shyt you just spewed out.
As black men, you two should KNOW better.
DON’T point fingers at black women without 100 pointing back at YOU.
Fri 21 Nov 2008 at 18:46:57
Anon – I totally understand what you are saying. As a thick whtie girl – I was considered fat by men of my race…I was the designated fat friend. I dated latin and black boys because white guys didnt even look twice at me. My hatred for my body was so strong I tried taking my own life twice and ended up in the hospital after dropping down to 130 lbs while exercising 6 hours a day in an effort to be something I am not. And still was considered to thick for most white guys. Any girl with 38 – 24 – 40 measurements and thighs 22 inches around when flexed – is not fat. But I hated how I looked.
I have mostly come to the same place you are about my body. You CAN be skinny and have a nice shape. In Fact – my husband prefers skinny women. His love for me has to do with who I am, not how I look.
There IS NOTHING WRONG with being skinny, thick or fullfigured, as long as your healthy. Its amazing how we create ways to cripple our self esteem as a race (human).
There is nothing wrong with being African, European or Hienz 52. There is nothing wrong with being thick, thin or somewhere in between. As long as you are Healthy and treat people with Kindness…thats what is important. And Smile alot.
Sat 22 Nov 2008 at 07:21:33
Lil’vina, it’s always good to chat with someone who has had my unique experience and get another woman’s perspective on the situation. I totally understand what your saying and I’m not going to let my self-worth be determined by the size (or lack of size) of my butt. Believe it or not, I know some women who think that they’re better simply because they have a big butt. I even had one put hers’ up to my face (I was sitting down) while she was playing “Baby Got Back”. And men would put me down in front of her. I have a million stories. A lot worse than that. It was tough.
Davina, I’m sorry about what you went through as well. But I’m glad you are at the place were you are ok with your body and don’t get so distraught about it that you want to take your life. As a white woman, you probably have the opposite problem than Lil’Vina and I. It is cultural. The fact is, no matter what size you are, there’s always going to be someone who wants to bring you down. I’m sure you are beautiful as well. And yes, we do create ways to cripple our self-esteem, but most of the time it’s perpetuated by others mean-spirted comments. What really does matter is being healthy, treating people with kindness and love for GOD and family.
Sat 22 Nov 2008 at 08:36:30
wow anon. i appreciate what you said and thank you because i think it’s good to talk to someone about this because most people think it’s a bad thing to be skinny because of what they see in hollywood. as a skinny woman they don’t represent me but people these days think all skinny women look like that and they don’t. i’m skinny but i have some curves as well but obviously that’s not enough. i didn’t get teased about my body but some people would be asking me, “why are you so skinny” or “do you eat” and whatnot. sometimes i’ll brush it off but sometimes it gets annoying and i wouldn’t like my body because i didn’t have what other girls have and that’s a thick body. but i realize i am beautiful with or without a big butt so i don’t need to feel ashamed about it and neither should you. i just think it’s a damn shame that we live in a world that women have to look a certain way in order to be beautiful and it’s sad. and yes you’re right, there will always be somebody trying to bring you down but i try to bring myself up and not care what people think. it’s wrong to make fun of someone who’s skinny just like it’s wrong to make fun of someone who’s thick or full figured. we all do have our preferences but we shouldn’t have to put someone down because they’re not our type. so i appreciate that i can talk to someone about this and i know you are a beautiful person inside and out so be who you are and not care what people say.
Tue 25 Nov 2008 at 00:32:36
and davida i’m sorry that you had to go through that. that’s a shame that your people can’t accept you because of how you are but you know you’re beautiful so it shouldn’t matter what they say. all i say is love the body that you’re in. as long as you love it, it shouldn’t matter what other people think.
Tue 25 Nov 2008 at 03:24:59
Love the skin your in folks
Wed 26 Nov 2008 at 07:43:16
So Davida your saying you didn’t like black guys; you only dated them because of how white men viewed your weight?
Mon 1 Dec 2008 at 15:38:09
lift to weight ratios…
So Whey protein is quick in, quick out. It is thought that these calories are used for workout energy, with less deposited as fat….
Mon 1 Dec 2008 at 16:18:36
I generally dont discriminate when it comes to men. Sure I like black men, but find asian men, latin men, white men – and all the mixes in between attractive. I dont really have a type defined by race. I like strong shoulders and arms – hands that feel like they work for a living – and a look in the eyes that says they are strong alpha male who is respected by other men. beyound that – i am open.
And of course I dont mean that no white men hit on me (my husband is white) Just, I notice that fewer white men notice me. Even today, its mostly men of color who hit on me. I got married at 19 – so the number of men I dated can be counted on one hand…three of which were black. One really awful and abusive italien guy and my red headed welshmen (the guy I married probably cause my dad couldnt make him cry like the other boys).
Tue 2 Dec 2008 at 04:18:33
Davida Says: I was considered fat by men of my race…I was the designated fat friend. I dated latin and black boys because white guys didnt even look twice at me.
It appears that that comment is saying that your preference of men of color was because how you were treated. I could be wrong but that is your comment. However, i am not debating you or nothing.
Tue 2 Dec 2008 at 05:42:19
your right – my comment does seem to imply that.
probably should slow down when posting comments and think them threw a bit.
Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 19:10:16
To Tammmy Walker: Chill out chick it seems that you may some insecurity issues of your own. Sad as it may be men are men and unfortunately alot of desire of the opposite sex starts with the eyes and later the mind. I am guessing you must have encountered way too many immature guys who would pick apart the bodies of women to make themselves feel better and its there own way of having fun because it is all fantasy. Rarely do regular guys get women who seem to meet their body type ideals. They usually end up someone who they sincerly love and her body does really matter. Men may have physical preferences on women but the woman not necessarily meet those criteria the fact that she loves and he loves her trumped everything else.
Fri 2 Jan 2009 at 19:13:57
Anyone could add whatever they want to my last response. I just personally feel that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and love conquers all. Abagond said that he still loves his wife. Why are some of you still willing to knitpick?
Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 00:39:50
well sweetness most men just pick women by their body parts because they’re immature and have nothing else to do. a real man would know what he wants besides how her body looks and i agree that beauty is the eye of the beholder. but then a lot of people don’t see that.
Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 06:11:11
I agree with sweetness: most men want a woman more beautiful than they could possibly get and, in any case, many fall in love with women who more physically ordinary.
Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 08:47:17
there’s nothing wrong being physically attracted to someone but it should more than just physical but most men these days care about women body parts than her personality.
Sun 4 Jan 2009 at 23:24:48
Tammy,Abagond expressed his preference,it was not a personal insult aimed at you. Your posts scream insecurity and hurt.It’s almost as if you want him to change his preference. Men like what they like. Some men don’t like full figured women and never will.In the black community,super slim women and fat women gets no love. It’s harsh but that’s the truth. The thick sisters get all the play.There are men who prefer those body types. Neither is attractive to my eyes. True,you cannot help your body type,but there will always be someone who appreciates it. So why get so angry and outdone because you feel dissed by men who like thick women only? There’s somebody for everybody. I see a lot of anger because Abagond and other men in this thread aren’t interested in skinny or fat women. Bringing all these statistics and rants are a coverup.Your feelings are hurt,because you’ve encountered this sort of preference before,been rejected because of it and are still angry about it.Everyone has a right to like what they like. I like dark skinned men only,should light skinned or men of other races be angry with me,because of my preference?
I have three brothers and none of them or their friends will date a tiny or big woman. They flatout don’t like them. You can’t get angry with a man for what he likes. What White people think of black beauty means nothing to me,I have no use for them or their preferences.
Our standards of beauty remain in OUR culture,despite outside influences. These standards are unchanged. Black men,some,NOT all,like thick women,they always have.
Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 06:39:54
Kiama,
Speak for yourself or the limited amount of people you know.
‘Cause, trust me, PLENTY and PLENTY of brothers like the big girls!!! PLENTY.
Especially in the South. Believe me, I’ve been all around and I know.
I routinely see in-shape black guys with their 200+ lb. women and they don’t blink an eye at the slimmer women around.
Not that skinny, petite females are negelected because they surely are not.
Just had to correct that idea that she/he stated.
Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 09:55:49
Thanks, Kiama. Different men prefer different things in women. There is nothing wrong in that in and of itself.
Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 11:39:56
I came across this post by total accident and really enjoyed it. There were a few posts I could do without (lol). However, I am really happy that there is a dialogue about this.
I do agree with some other posters that the original post *did* sound fatphobic and lacked categories. I think there is a long way from thick to fat. And living in NYC, I often see women (who look to be less than a size zero) with big butts.
The fact that several men simply saw this post as an opinion and several women found it to be hurtful and demeaning, says a lot. It says a lot about how men and women understand each other (esp black men/women).
I think women are generally more emotional and some are on the defensive b/c we feel like we get this all the time. And creating these categories, even if its only for fun, just perpetuates the standard(s) of beauty that make us feel inadequate.
Once again, great post!
Mon 5 Jan 2009 at 12:34:39
Oh! I almost forgot! Re: the comment about “fat black lesbians with kids”…just b/c someone is with one gender, doesn’t mean they “can’t get” the other gender. That is extremely arrogant and heterosexist.
And since when do lesbians like fat girls?! Most lesbians are almost as fatphobic as men.
Tue 6 Jan 2009 at 03:00:00
i want to say is there’s nothing wrong with having preferences as i said but don’t women down whether she’s skinny, thick, or fat. i read this post and how people want to say that skinny women don’t have a figure and look like little boys. some do but most don’t. i have preferences in men but i do give some guys a chance regardless of what they look like. i just don’t agree with what he said about skinny women not having much of a figure when we do. as for the black community, young girls have issues with their bodies because they were picked on because they didn’t have a big ass. there is someone for anybody but that doesn’t give nobody the right to hurt someone’s feelings because they’re not you’re type. some will probably feel like they’re ugly and resort to going on a dangerous diet or either get surgery to have more body. then some want to complain that a woman shouldn’t do that and yea she shouldn’t but the only reason why she did that because she wanted to feel accepted and then you wonder why so many young girls can’t love their bodies because of what people have to say or what hollywood says. don’t put women down because she doesn’t have the look that most men wnat. like i said before, a man should know what he wants from a woman besides how big her ass is or how skinny she is.
Thu 8 Jan 2009 at 04:20:48
mynameismyname
I did state that there are men who like bigger women.
Once again,a response that indicates indignation for no reason. Are you a bigger sister? Then,of course you would know that those men exist.Of course,there are men who like that sort of body type. But from experience with my brothers,male friends,and others,most men prefer a woman that is inbetween aka thick.
Sat 10 Jan 2009 at 17:49:04
Wait a minute I was given my opinion about this shit. I don’t know Abagond or any other of these black men who hate heavy women. i can give a fuck. My original concern was how there are examples of thick and skinny women and Monique is alone. I feel that Monique should not be the posterchild for heavy women. That is how I interpreted this post. There was some skinny women ranting about how men think of skinny women and I said the opposite by stating past experiences of how men think of heavy women. This do not mean i am some crazy person and insecure as you are putting it sweetness. It was my opinion just like it is abagond opinion to hate on heavy women.
Sat 10 Jan 2009 at 17:59:19
I used the word hate because it takes time to create such a site. I never created a site with my opinion regarding mean thoughts. That is their perogative. For instance I and many of black people think many white Americans still have a problem with black people in society. The minute black people say that around white people they immediately think they are insecure and overly reacting. That do not imply that. That is stating the truth along with stating individual experiences. The point is when people think opposite it may be misconstrued and it will cause a back and fourth discussion. None of it may be inserity and some it may but most of it is just giving opinions.
Sat 10 Jan 2009 at 17:59:54
men thoughts*
Sat 10 Jan 2009 at 18:33:37
This made me smile, despite the angry comments elsewhere. You’re really confident in what you like, and what you like isn’t the norm! That makes me feel great, even though I may not fit into those categories (I’m somewhere in the limbo between fat and thick) it’s good to know that some guy out there has the intestinal fortitude to say what he likes and to appreciate outside of the mainstream. Gives me confidence that I fit into someone’s beauty spectrum too
P.S. This is now my fave blog.
Sun 11 Jan 2009 at 10:50:01
Thanks for the encouragement.
Sun 11 Jan 2009 at 10:50:14
Tammy: who should I add in addition to Mo’Nique?
Mon 12 Jan 2009 at 18:48:50
Erin,
Yes, but you don’t have to put down those in the mainstream to make those who are not feel better. That is our arguement.
Fri 16 Jan 2009 at 03:36:45
Actually, Abagond this is your site and I respect your opinion despite some of my previous comments so you should do what you want. Apparently, you appear to want only Monique to represent heavy women so that is your choice. However, I think Jill Scott, Kim Coles, That girl on Eve show, Kim Whitley, Queen Latifah, Raven Symone is heavy to some people. I would not label fat women because to many full-figured women that is an insult just like calling thin women bones.
Sat 17 Jan 2009 at 02:53:41
anon,
No, putting down people isn’t the best way to go about it, but abagond is stating his reasons for not liking different sorts of women. I respect that. It’s not like he’s saying that thin/fat women are horrible people, he’s just saying that he doesn’t like them, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just because I’m not thin doesn’t mean I hate thinner women, and it doesn’t mean I put them down so I feel better.They are pretty in their own way and I’m pretty in mine. And there are guys out there like abagond who prefer one sort of pretty over another, instead of the sort that we’re told to like.
It’s not so much putting down the mainstream as it is liking something unique. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Sat 17 Jan 2009 at 02:58:00
i dont think abagonds intent is to make any feel better about how they look. He isnt out here to stroke egos.
He just likes talking about a certain type of women.
Sat 17 Jan 2009 at 05:25:42
It is an “all things being equal” thing. All things being equal I like thick women over other kinds. But a woman’s beauty cannot be reduced to just one thing. My tastes are not that simple.
For example, I think that Sade is way more beautiful than Serena Williams, even though Serena has a way better body and Sade is thin.
Out of Tammy’s list I like Kim Coles and Jill Scott – and Jennifer Hudson and Toccara Jones even when they are sometimes fat.
So being fat or thin does not make you not beautiful. It is not that simple.
When I write a post I write about one particular thing for 500 words. Everything I think is beautiful in women can not be reduced to just 500 words or to just one aspect, like thickness.
Sat 17 Jan 2009 at 18:13:19
At the same time though Abagond, many can miscontrue what you are saying because of how this world works. We all know everyone is beautiful in their own way however the “black media” particular men’s taste, especially videos do not appreciate all women. It appears thick women are appreciated. I here men putting down heavy women and thin women all of the time. Especially they put emphasize on not liking heavy women. Black men are cruel like that and tend to express their thoughts in such a rude way. I watched an episode on that show “What men think” on TV One and a gentlemen said “Hell naw I don’t like no fat girls.” Although we say men have their own prferences all the men in there agreed. But they said I am not interested in skinny women as if they were saying no offense. They didn’t have no compassion on the heavy women or nothing. I here this shit all the time. However, I am not expressing insecurity it is just what i here a lot from black men. I have witnessed men not wanting to open the door for heavy women and ignoring her in a room and not making her part of the adult conversation. I just think black men are prejudice toward heavy women. Then when Abagond comes on saying his preference about thick women which is ok but then put one women up there saying “women so fat they have no figure at all” is that reminder of how black men tend to exclude heavy women. Abagond may not intentionally do that but it can be miscontrued that way. ESpecially when he has a wife that is heavy and talking about other types of women. I would think myself he would have a site talking about his wife which may lead some to think he may not be really attracted to his wife anymore but prefer other women’s bodies. Everyone do not think this way but some may. Abagond then you have thick women coming in here that are satisfied with your post because they are the ones in “black men’s eyes” that are preferred. This is not all my thoughts but just summing up the way women are looked at in society and how some may misinterpret your post.
Mon 19 Jan 2009 at 06:34:51
A good comment and helpful too. Thanks.
Like norm chompsky on another post, I think maybe you are confusing relative and absolute. Just because I like thick women more does not mean I do not like fat women at all. I look at them when I walk down the street, the black ones at least.
The reason I put up just Monique under “fat” is because a) everyone can agree she is fat and b) I know from personal experience that women do not like being called fat. I once said that Janet Jackson was fat in some of her earlier videos and caught all kinds of hell from my sister (thin) and my girlfriend (thick). To me I was merely stating a simple fact, but to them it was more than that.
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 20:20:51
I guess you are just rude calling women fat then because I sure don’t appreciate it. You are not calling thin women bones or skeleton because you favor them. How shallow!
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 20:24:28
Sounds like, you’re saying “I’ll put down one group of women to lift some up”.
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 22:44:30
No, I just do not believe in using euphemisms like “full-figured”.
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 23:37:27
I agree completely with what tammy is saying.. I guess I’m late on the convo or the post all together but this is the first day i’ve seen this site. I believe it all depends on where a man comes from and what he is raised to believe is the idea of beauty. It is also society and pressure from their friends that have a huge role in what a man is “trained” to like. I am a woman who many men consider thick but some would consider fat also. I don’t believe that women like Beyonce’ and Melyssa Ford are thick at all.. and even if i were a size 0. I wouldn’t think that. To me, they are still on the thin side.. like one of your other posters stated.. just because you have hips doesn’t automatically give you a “thick” pass.. women who are pear shaped are just that.. pear shaped.. or as my friends call them, “ill built”…lol.. for a woman to be thick, in my definition and in a lot of other men’s… she has to have everything curved.. breasts, hips, butt, thighs…. she can’t be an “A” cup in the breasts and have a huge ghetto booty with tons of cellulite and still get away with being called “thick” I have heard most men say that thick women are defined as being proportionate, no matter if they are a size 4 or 24.. because you may not believe it, but i’ve seen many MANY women who would be too big for your standards, who have great shape.. and women who are thick as you say or pear shaped.. have no shape at all… screw hip to waist ratio…
All i know is that, I would definately be considered to be fat by your standards, eventhough I am not Monique’s size… and i have NEVER EVER had a problem attracting men, very successful men at that.. and ‘m sorry to Tammy, but they have all (except one) treated me with respect and included me in everything. What i mean by where you come from: a man raised in Georgia or Alabama may view Monique as thick, while a black man from California, may have a completely different view(like you). I agree with most of the people on here, you have to choose your words more carefully if you are going to blog for the public so you won’t offend others. More women AND men are going to read these than the type you prefer. Its all about what you like.. and If you like thick women (what most would call skinny) then like them, go find them, and don’t put others down for liking what they like, or for not fitting into that category. There are plenty of men who love big women and are proud of it. Same goes for skinny women. Do you, but please use some tact, because remember, while you are giving all of the kudos to the “thick” women, they may not ALL be feeling what YOU look like.. so where does that leave you? feeling like you have made the rest of the world feel that doesn’t fit into your small box.. This is not to criticize, just to let you know that there are more people out there with feelings besides the size 6’s..
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 23:48:21
Tammy, you can NOT be serious – you and Lil Vina! When God was giving out insecurity you two got an extra helping. Its a blog! The man likes what he likes. Gosh, now people aren’t entitled to their preferences? You’ve gotta be kidding me. SO WHAT if he favors thin or skinny women (in which he CLEARLY does not – I swear people see what they want to see) Fat is a word that will always be used as long as fat people are around. Skinny is a word that will always be used as long as skinny people are around. No one will sugarcoat that just to please you. You don’t like to be called “fat” – then lose the weight. “Full figured” is relative, because I am 5′2 115 pounds and I’d be damned if someone called me “half figured.” I’ve been called skinny all of my life and I never tried to force anyone to call me other than what they viewed me as. You’re bitter. Go head with yourself girl.
Wed 21 Jan 2009 at 23:53:11
Well, Aba, we can add weight alongside the “hot” issues of hair and skin shade as physical traits that many black women on the internet get worked up about. Again, in everyday life, I rarely see black women visibly stress themselves over such matters but obviously, there’s still a segment who become vexed about them. And they have the wonderfully faceless world of the internet to do so!
And yes, Knowles and Melyssa Ford are certainly naturally “thick”. By black American standards, that is. But again, it’s compeletely subjective and varies from person to person.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 00:10:37
Cassandra I think your perception is skewed. I have a 23 inch waist line and I’m bigger on the bottom. I have hips, because my bottom half is wide … but … no one has ever called me “thick.” It depends on how “thick” the hips are. My mother is what anyone would call thick -everyone does- (big hips, thick thighs) and her breast are A cup sized, so what exactly are you saying? AND ok Aba likes thick girls, so what. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe people are actually offended by this. I don’t think he’d care if the “Thick” girls wouldn’t like what he looked like, the man is married. If this man doesn’t like your figure – and? so what? Someone else does. You say all of this in your comment, but yet you are still trying to tell the man what is what and what to like. Please stop trying to project your insecurity on other people. Now you can go head too.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 00:24:32
strangefruit – thank you so much for bringing a sense of proportion to all this!
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 00:48:10
i agree with srangefruit 100%. I am a white women..I dont have the skin color, check bones, eyes shape or color that abagond prefers – but I do not feel slighted. Not everything is about me.
I love the opportunity to look at the world through someone elses eyes. Even before I found abagonds blog I thought those attributes where beautiful, but I love the way he writes, with such passion and conviction. I love the way he expresses opinion. Its a learning experience for me. I dont feel put down…because he is not putting me down…simiply uplifting other women. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 03:16:14
Although I don’t agree with Abagond approach, who is Abagond? He is an anonomous blogger who uses this format to uplift some women and put others down. Maybe his look wouldn’t necessarily appeal to lil’vina or tammy. And no, you two are not insecure, just tired of being fed the untruths that you are not enough. I’m learning not to let Abagond or anyone else’s opinions bother me because there are men who like me (and who like you two) just how you are.:)
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 04:29:46
someone tell me where i said ONCE in my last blog that aba can’t like what he likes.. everyone is attacking me and I NEVER said that what he likes is wrong.. strangefruit… are you screwing him on the side or something? because it’s unnecessary to take up for him like you are when you clearly are guilty of the criticism you are dishing out (seeing what you want to see).. I never said that I was insecure and if you had taken the time to read my blog correctly, you would have read where i said that i would not be considered something he likes but i have NEVER had a problem attracting men AND KEEPING ONE… if you are going to tell someone to “go ahead” then you need to stroll right along side of them.. and of course Aba is going to agree with you.. you are talking what he likes to hear… and putting others down just like he is… come on now.. dont give yourself props because he agrees.. he wrote the blog… what you need to do, is go back and read what i wrote again and stop skipping over words or just pulling out what you want to see and bashing what you think is going to earn you “cool points” with Aba.. AGAIN, he likes what he likes and i have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I just told him that he could use more tact in the way he says things as to not offend others… get it straight
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 04:31:57
and thank you ANON for”bringing a sense of proportion to all of this”
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 05:33:16
LOL Cassandra, screwing him on the side? That was pretty low of you. I have been an avid reader of this blog for months – I withheld my comment for a while now. I just don’t see why someone would scrutinize (that’s exactly what you did) someone else for their “taste” because they fall out of the realm of it … that’s just not becoming. You tried to REDEFINE what he considered THICK, by saying its skinny -no offense, but if you’re a “big girl” a lot of other women will seem skinny to you even when they’re not. It just is what it is. I don’t see where he put other women down. You’ll have to “enlighten” me on that one. LOL, girl please stop, I can careless about you not having problems with men … I didn’t ask you a thing. No need to reassure me. Assure yourself, it seems like you need a good dose of self-reassurance. But Um, about the “cool points” … its a blog. I think you’re more concerned with “cool points” than I am. “He can use more tact in the way he says things as to not offend others?” REALLY?? He has to be POLITICALLY CORRECT when WRITING ON HIS BLOG about what *HE* likes. LMAO get a grip. Lastly, I never stated that you said you were insecure … I just think you are. Toodles.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 05:46:43
well here you go again.. first of all.. if you have been an avid reader of this blog for months and you were “holding back” then why all of a sudden did you decide to explode all of your pent up feelings on me? thats “not becoming ” of you either. everyone on here is entitled to their opinion and all of a sudden, i come along and I have to get criticized by you (no one) for my own opinion. there are so many others on here who have said way worse and now you come at me like i’ve just stabbed your mamma or something.. you need to take your own advice.. its a blog like you said.. which means that people can say what they feel.. including me.. and shouldn’t have to have the bloggers little advocate jump all down thier throats about it.. again… read what i wrote, not what you want to see.. i didn’t say i was a “big girl” i said that to him, to HIM…. i may be.. you need to comprehend what you read.. i have read what you have written so far and you haven’t attacked anyone like you’ve just attacked me and that is rediculous.. when there are so many others on here tallking.. don’t pick on me because i’m the newcommer… but whatever, i’m too grown for the tit for tat.. i had an opinion (like everyone else) and i stated it (like everyone else) and i’m not about to keep responding to these little things you are throwing at me for no reason because you needed someone to blow up on.. i came to the blog by accident.. but it will not be an accident as to why i’m leaving.. goodbye all.. what kind of world is it that people can’t even have their own opinion.. well, i guess they can if it follows suit with the one they believe in.. sorry for thinking i was entering something with grown people.. Strangefruit.. please don’t respond to this.. if you were holding back for all of the time you said you were, then show some class and do it again. and get over it..
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 06:07:39
Cassandra, originally when I wrote my response, I really meant to include you along with lil’vina and tammy. I too have been tempted to not read these blogs. The only reason why I do is to be of some support or to the minority of women who are being excluded from an ideal or standard of (as abagond states it) what encourages procreation – beauty. It is no more insecure for you to be upset that a certain size (thick) woman is the ideal as it is for black women or men to be upset because a certain race (white) is the ideal. It is no different. Either way, someone is excluded, but down and made to feel less than.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 06:18:38
Mellow dramatic much? I didn’t “attack” or pick on you and you’re not a victim so girl, stop. Now bye-bye Cassandra. Good riddance
I hope you stay though – that was very classy of me right? LOL -Rolling my eyes-
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 06:28:41
i would rather a man have an opinion and exclude me then have no opinion at all. Their is a scripture that says – You are either hot or cold for me…those that are luke warm I will spit out of my mouth. I love abagonds passion…and its for a type of women I am not. His passion and zeal for what he believes in is refreshing (even when I disagree with him). I am tired of people who have no opinion on anything or say wishy washy things like (what you believe is okay for you and what I believe is okay for me)…I love the passion.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 07:16:55
I am back in response to ANON..and because i don’t know how to keep the comments from coming to my e-mail.. lol.. Thank you for saying that.. see.. you too have an opinion that doesn’t exactly agree with aba but that girl is not jumping all over you… i am not mad at him for putting up his opinion.. i got angry at that girl for attacking my views on it an no one elses.. but Anon, that was my whole point.. just to tell him that there are people who like other types and he shouldn’t put anyone down. That’s all i’m was trying to say.. I wasn’t trying to change his opinion as some think or redefine what beauty is to him.. i don’t know why what I said got that girl so angry..and for someone to say that i am insecure because i disagree with his approach to what he likes is rediclous.. (another myth: all women who are skinny or bigger do NOT have low self esteem). but anyway, once I figure out how to stop the e-mails from coming.. then i will be off of here but i had to come back to tell you thank you Anon…for providing support. You are much better than me, because I can’t take the smart comments from other people when they are completely uncalled for.. Please Continue doing what you’re doing.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 07:37:04
Casandra – I believe you do it by unchecking the box directly beneath the submit comment button. Although I dont think you should have to go.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 07:39:26
there it is, you should see a line that says “Your are subscribed to this post. Manage your Subscriptions” click on the manage subscriptions link it that location and you should be able to remove yourself. stop back in later…abagond always has thought prevoking items up…and different points of view are always interesting to read…even if i dont agree.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 09:37:52
Cassandra you are childish. I am not a girl. I am a woman. So don’t call me “that girl.” Grow the hell up. I wasn’t angry, I had addressed Tammy and Lil Vina even, before addressing you. I feel you are insecure, because that is my opinion – point blank period. Get over it. I couldn’t have possibly “jumped” all over you – this is cyber and even if we were face to face I wouldn’t dare lay a finger on you. I also didn’t attack you or your views – I addressed them. Again a difference. How old are you? Can you differentiate from someone addressing you from someone “attacking” you? I don’t think you can. Um I never said bigger or skinny females were insecure – I said YOU are insecure; a difference. Its obvious IMO. Now click that little box (that you had to have clicked in the FIRST place to be receiving notifications of follow up comments) and um … good riddance. Bye, bye beautiful
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 09:49:47
The beautiful part I think you needed to hear. LOL oh and you verbally attacked me. You insinuated that I was screwing a man because I agreed with him – how low can you possibly be? You should be ashamed. I doubt you are an adult – who resorts to bullshit like that in their responses? Bless your soul.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 11:28:57
Cassandra: “cool points”? “screwing him on the side”? Please. You are going too far.
There is nothing wrong in stating your opinion. Your point about tact was a good one and the idea that different parts of the country have different ideas about what is thick is interesting too. But do not get upset if people jump on you for talking crazy.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 11:55:27
strangefruit in #241 says:
I don’t see where he put other women down. You’ll have to “enlighten” me on that one.
I would like to know this too.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 18:28:56
ok.. well, i see the messages on how to delete my subscription so i will do that for the sake of everyone i have seemed to offend so much (since that seems to be the case).. Abagond, i apologize to YOU for the ’screwing on the side’ comment but not for the ‘cool points’ one.. really, it had nothing to do with you.. when I stated my opinion like everyone else, i just expected it to be read and disagreed or agreed with. So, I was taken aback when i was suddenly being called out and being called insecure and being told that i was trying to redefine your way of thinking, when i clearly was not (and her cursing is going too far to me). Thank YOU Abagond, for reading what i wrote because YOU understood what i was trying to say and that’s what matters.. and for the record, strangefruit condescendingly said what she had to say to me before i started “talking crazy” as you say… The point is… this is YOUR blog, not hers, and i wanted to know really what YOU had to say in response to me. I just didnt appreciate all of the scarcasm and the rudeness i received in the beginning, just for stating my opinion. that is why i said what i said to strangefruit. From what i have been reading, it seems like everyone has an opinion. their OWN opinion and they state that. Strangefruit seems to just advocate for YOUR opinion. It would be different if she said “I feel” or “I believe” but its always, “He feels” or “He doesn’t care about..blah blah”. So, again, I do apologize to YOU. I wish i could stay because as you can see, I love to give my opinion on things. lol. Good luck with your blogs, (i heard you have more that i didn’t get a chance to see). as for the “enlightenment” on putting other women down, ask all of the other bloggers that have been saying that (not just me, obviously i’m not the only one that feels that way).
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 18:31:48
To strangefruit, I know you are going to get smart again,.. (because that’s what you do) but I am asking, for the sake of everyone getting their opinion across, if you would please cut down on the smart mouth and just state your opinion. People can understand and side with you much better without all of the attitude. Good luck to u too. (and i’m NOT being scarcastic… i mean it). Its been.. interesting..
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 18:37:46
oh, one more thing.. thank you Davida for showing me what to do… and thank you for having your own opinion but not being rude about it. I appreciate that on my first blogging experience… lol.. good luck to you too.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 19:05:53
Well, well… this sure is an interesting thing i’ve come across.. lol..
Well, I just want to say that I am a 36 year old professional black male and truly, i was not “born” with any preferences. I guess im the odd one out because I have always been attracted to the woman’s “swagger” If women can have that. lol. Men go through that phase of what they are supposed to like, but once you are a “grown man” you start to look for something more than just a nice ass and hip to waist ratio. Because that, without the help of plastic surgery, will fade in time. I truly don’t care if a woman i black, brown, white, asian.. 500pounds or 90 pounds…tall or short. I’m 6′4″ 265lbs and i work out everyday to maintain my body image but I would still step to a sista or a white woman that was 350 if she carried it right and had a good head on her shoulders.. just as i would a woman who was 105. Its all about inner beauty to me.. it may seem corny but its true. and the more you can stimulate my mind.. the more you can stimulate…other parts..
. Like i said, I’m a professional male, and I would rather walk into a business dinner or whatever with a chick like Monique or Ya Ya or hell, even Whoppi Goldberg on my arm that was smart, charming, and about her business than to walk in with Kim Kardashian and if asked, she wouldn’t even know how to spell her own last name. I’m just saying, all that glitters is not gold and all that jiggles is not fat nasty jell-o. lol. I’ve had the experience of all kinds and it is not what people want to hear but it is truly the inside that matters when the two of you are 80 and you’re fighting over who’s teeth are in the red cup on the nightstand 
. Now, I know you guys are going to rip me apart and run me out of here like you did that poor Cassandra girl. I too, understood what she was trying to say. So for agreeing with that fact alone, I know i’m otta here. lol. I know she says she’s not coming back but hey Miss Cassandra, if you come back.. Holla at ya boy! lol.. I see that you have class and are intelligent despite the little slip ups.. and i don’t think you’re insecure at all..even if all of these people think so.. OK.. I know i’m really going to get it from you guys for that one.. lol.. let me suit up and get ready to defend my ground..
Even though I don’t agree with you Abagond, my man, good blog, it gets the real people thinking…and expressing and that is what free communication is supposed to be about.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 19:25:08
and just to seal my nail in my coffin, Strangefruit, you ARE a bit harsh when trying to make your point. I think everyone could befifit from you toning it down a notch. It seems like you are purposely trying to pick at people and start things with them just to irritate them. From reading, it seems like you DID do that with Tammy, and Lil’vina and Cassandra and anyone else who had an opinion that was not 115lbs like you say you are. You seem to have an obsession with calling the rest of the blog world insecure, because they don’t agree with you. And I can’t help but notice, that it seems to be only the ones who, again, are not thin or “thick”. I’ve read where you called several people this, just because they voiced their opinion. Maybe YOU are the one fighting your own insecurities. (go read what you said to everyone). You are telling everyone else to lighten up.. sweetheart, you need to ligten up too.. i know you are going to TRY to rip into me too.. lol.. but I am just making a suggestion. No harm intended.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 20:36:57
Strangefruit who are you to criticize me. So you’re saying its ok to negative talk to me? I actually was discussing this to Abagond when I said calling someone fat is equivalent to calling someone thin “bones”. It is putting another down to lift the other up. This has nothing to do with insecurity on anyone part! It is responding to a post. I am saying that some of his comments he is trying to make it sound like it is libral/or neutral but its not. I am not going to hunt him down or no shit like that. He can say I am a fat bitch i still would not give a fuck. I am saying he is sounding a bit contradictive. More then likely Abagond is some ugly guy who think he knows the answer. But if he is or not that is him. I just Think some things he say is a contradiction. And stranfefruit you can’t criticize someone else then call them insecure. I guess that makes you insecure because you criticized me. So you can go on with that bullshit.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 20:58:58
Strangefruit is criticizing everyone who doesn’t agree with Abagond, Tammy. Its ok.. just let it go.. i believe that she is trying to get something started with someone because she must like the drama. I said the same thing with Cassandra. She came in looking for a decent blog site and strangefruit handed her the bait and unfortunately, she took it. Don’t let her antagonize you and make you take that bait. She has already disgusted one person away, don’t make it another one. Be happy with yourself and know that some random person over the internet cannot determine your self worth. You are probably a lovely person. dont stoop to those levels.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 22:10:23
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 22:12:39
Tammy … you let Abagond’s post really mess with you – you shouldn’t. To each his own.
And Elliot I don’t care if I’m harsh – its the truth. The truth hurts, but lies kill. I call someone insecure when I sense insecurity. A secure woman would read this post and not be the least bit bothered by it. I didn’t hand Cassandra anything, she stated her opinion … and then I stated mine LOL. “Be happy with yourself and know that some random person over the internet cannot determine your self worth.” – EXACTLY. That is what Tammy, Lil Vina, Cassandra, and everyone else who doesn’t agree with this post should do. Not sit here and scruntinize something you simply can not change – like what a man views something as or what he’s attracted to. I’ve reiterated myself several times now. Hit me back in case you need me to say it again for it to get through to you, k? Um and you also stated that I argue with ppl who aren’t thick or thin or something to that effect. I really don’t care to scroll up – newsflash, Lil Vina is thin and I told her the same damn thing. I fall out of the realms of what Aba finds prefers in a female – I’m THIN but I can’t get riled up by a post with 500 words in it about ONE man’s taste. Its just not that serious -especially if you aren’t making valid points and saying things like “oh what you consider “thick” is actually skinny I know because I’m thick but you would consider me fat” its just retarded – for lack of a better word. Hope I didn’t rip into you too bad
Cassandra – I don’t advocate for anybody’s opinion – an opinion is an opinion. Why it seems like I am advocating for Aba’s opinion is simply because I am saying – LET THE MAN’S OPINION BE. Thanks for the luck.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 22:43:05
Well strangefruit a few in here think you are insecure because you are net picking. It is their opinion like it is yours, mine and Abagond. I am sure you will respond if someone says you’re insecure and you already did. I don’t think Abagond should change his post but my concern was that he is trying to sound nuetral but he don’t to me. That is my opinion. Your opinion is that some in here is insecure but I am sure they as well as I don’t give a fuck!
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 22:52:43
The thing is.. strangefruit, is that Abagon is a grown man and if he wants to talk cruel to people and use child like tactics like getting smart with everyone who’s opinion differs from his, then he is allowed to do so, but he is not. He was able to find valid points in what all of those women said. He said his peace and let it go. This isn’t even your blog and you are bashing other women when I’m sure he didnt ask or doesnt need you to do that. You are saying that its not that serious to let someone’s words get someone riled up but i’m sorry to tell you (since you believe you are so right) thats exactly what YOU are doing. You sure didn’t let HIS words get you riled up, but you let the words of other women get you riled up..Does that make YOU any better than them? of course not; and you are saying that they make no sense, but truthfully, neither do you. I know you feel like you sound educated and are making valid points but you are really not. There is no validity in you calling someone insecure or cursing at them or making a paragraph full of wise cracks (which are frankly annoying) instead of real words and insight. As repeating the cruel words you have dished out numerous times, no thanks.. i dont need to “hit you back” on that. and just to make another point.. if you are going to quote someone, you should use their exact words, not paraphrase. Cassandra said that in ‘her opinion’ and in the opinion of men from different parts of the country, basically. I am from North Carolina origionally and eventhough I don’t descriminate, MY version of thick is not Aba’s version of thick.. most of the women who he listed would still be tinner to me. That’s what the woman was trying to say and I’m with her, you must not have really read all of what she said. She clearly said that she had no problem with what he liked. she was just having an opinion OF HER OWN. Honestly, she never once said she was offended by what Abagond said. She said that others may be and that he should chose his words more carefully. And if you are saying let the man’s opinion be, then YOU need to take YOUR OWN advice and stop fighting for HIS opinion, like she said. He doesn’t need you to do that for him. You have gotten your snide remarks across several times and its time to just read the blog and keep your opinions to yourself, unless you have something significant to add, instead of putting other women down. What you call being harsh, is just being downright cruel, and showing your ignorance.. and I’m not these women, so no, you can find the most ignorant thing to say to me that your brain can come up with and it won’t rip me..I’m a grown ass man, who doesn’t need to be defended by a woman so I’m good. I just said that you would rip into me because you seem to like to do that.
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 23:35:24
Elliot you crazy to think I’m gonna read all of that. LMAO I skimmed it. It was all over the place and scattered. Scroll up … REREAD what I posted and take that as your response! Matter of fact just keep rereading it until you actually get it, got it? LOL. Boy, bye!
Tammy – If I ever start projecting my own insecurities upon other people, I warrant everyone to tell me the fuck off. INSECURE people are ANNOYING. I know because I’ve dealt with a few insecure men. Now toodles – and you seem like you give a fuck, you’re still writing, when you stop I am sure then and only then that you really don’t give a fuck – and that you are happy with yourself. In which I seriously doubt – it just is what it is. Sorry
Thu 22 Jan 2009 at 23:37:45
And um … I can be wrong but I’m 72% sure that Elliot J and Cassandra are the same person. If so, that’s a little weird lol
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:06:18
Both Cassandra and Elliot J are coming from the same IP address. So at the very least they are more than likely using the same computer.
I think it is the same person: they both write using:
- very long paragraphs
- plenty of ellipses: …
- “thats” for “that’s”
Elliot J would not be the first sock puppet on this blog – I have seen others.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:31:04
Why – why cant people be themselves – say what they mean and then either have a polite and intelligent discussion – and agree or understand each others view point and disagree. I dont get all the anger etc.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:34:09
Mmhm, I figured. I wasn’t born yesterday. I observed the way she typed (with uncapitalized I’s … which annoys me, one of my biggest pet peeves) and the way she typed again under Elliot J. -sighs- People get sooo creepy over the internet LOL. Well Cassandra/Elliot J it was fun – you really did feel strongly about my response to you … all along I’ve been thinking you were just playing the victim – sorry didn’t mean to offend you. Insecure people – who pick apart people’s position on beauty – just get on my nerves.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:49:34
First off, where we use the computers, in ohio, is among others that are all on a shared network of computers. I didnt’ even know that until I saw what you wrote and looked up her info myself from the e-mail. I didnt even know we were in the same area. If you are going to hack then hack all the way Abagond. We share network computers. Everybody in this place where I am, ( i gess you’ll put that up there too when you find it)is on the same shit. Think what you want to think. You and your friend are sick. Do you really think that you are worth somebody doing that? I guess now I know, or AM Cassandra, Tammy and lil’vina since i took up from all of them. LMAO MAN YOU CRAZY. There are so many people on here writing long paragraphs, includin your girl, so maybe i’m everybody. And for MY sake, that shit wasnt even cool to say where I was from just because somebody got smart with your friend.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:53:38
Sorry about saying the town. I got rid of it from my comment. My apologies.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 00:56:48
I did not have to hack to see your IP address: as the blog owner I see the IP address and email address of everyone who comments.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 02:31:04
Strangefruit, you have a lot of nerves talking about someones insecurities when you go on and on about this. It seems you want to battle like a child. This is not your blog, it is Abagond’s site. I voiced my opinion on how his site can be misinterpreted and how he appears to be saying he is putting different body types on a pedestol but to me it seems he is lifting up one to put others down. Strangefruit you read more of this site, there are many saying more shit then me. I am not skinny but I also said it is not cool to call them bones or whatever. I just see him giving slim women the benefit by using careful wordings but saying fat about heavy women. To me it does not sound like a nuetral man. He can do and say whatever he wants as well as you. Many women can have nice shapes regardless of what size but this site indicates that only thick women do and that is not true. Some thick women can be built awkward as well. There were many saying what I am saying but they are wording it differently. Strangefruit you should comment on what you think instead of trying to pick everyones inner thoughts. I am a female you should not be trying to understand me or the other women in here. I can be wrong at some things. I’ll admit that some of my earlier comments were harsh but Abagond is starting to make a little sense to me now.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 03:36:33
I actually don’t want to go on and on about anything – especially the weight of a woman. Its not important to me. I’m not picking at any inner thoughts of any women – it wasn’t very hard to see what was already on the surface. And the whole “its Abagond’s website” thing is getting tired. OK, so apply that to yourself – his website, his thoughts, his opinion. Leave it at that. And I also did comment on what I thought, I said what I thought – scroll back up and reread my comments. I think to each his own.
Fri 23 Jan 2009 at 04:23:53
I liked what strangefruit said in comment #233, the one just before the big blow-up. Not because she agreed with me but because she was bringing a sense of proportion to the whole thing, trying to keep people from going off the deep end. It was strongly worded, I admit, but that seemed necessary at the time. Unfortunately it backfired…
Sat 24 Jan 2009 at 00:53:58
I think you were applauding her Abagond because she brought up the whole issue of “insecure” and how she spat on me for criticizing you. Well if you going to have some fucked up site (to an extent) then people will comment on it. There will be some flack about it and others will take your side but in the end you know what you meant by the post. (to exclude and name call)
Sat 24 Jan 2009 at 01:48:48
I am not out to get you and I seriously doubt Strangefruit is either. We are trying to be honest with you and you do not like what we have to say. You have the right to disagree and point out how we are wrong, you have the right to be angry, but you do not have the right to bully us into sugarcoating our words just to make you feel better.
Sat 24 Jan 2009 at 04:24:59
I never said that you should do anything. What the fuck I’m going to bully someone for, this is the internet. Go back and read when I said you should not change the site and I also said how some may misinterpret the site. This just makes my whole point when you are talking about hollywood standards but yours are not far behind them. This has nothing to do with what you said about heavy women. I’m talking about the introduction of your site. My point is you are trying to sound nuetral and you are not. You don’t have to keep debating me it is just my opinion. Hell you can say heavy women is some fat bitches all i give a fuck but I will just say that you are worst then hollywood. That is not telling you to change, it is my opinion like all others on this post. Even when white some white men say black women are fat and ugly. I am sure some white guy will tell me i am sugarcoating. I couldn’t tell him anything either but he is just stereotyping and prejudice. Doesn’t mean i am bullying him so he can change his post. Abagond at times you have went on justifying yourself when you don’t have to. We just don’t agree and I just happened to comment on this site.
Sat 24 Jan 2009 at 20:40:39
okay strangefruit, i am happy with myself. i wasn’t offended about what agagond wrote, i just didn’t agree with some of the things he said. i do love myself but i do want to give my opinion on what i thought about the post just like everybody else did. tammy walker gave her opinion about what agagond wrote about heavy set women. she didn’t like it but she wasn’t offended. so i’m not mad and not gonna some person get me all mad over how he view women. i know he’s not gonna change what he says and frankly i don’t care so why do you care on what i say? it’s my thoughts just like yours and everybody else.
Mon 26 Jan 2009 at 02:04:04
Cool.
Fri 30 Jan 2009 at 19:09:43
It seems that this entire post, and most of its responses are based on information dished out by the media. I believe that it’s very shameful to see how we categorize women.
Although everyone is entitled to their own opinions, most of the responses are what’s wrong with the world today. As a victim of multiple eating disorders, I definitely have to say these categorization acts have powerful impacts on women today. Although, it affects mostly young women, the effects can carry-out through a life time.
I know this is way too far-fetched, but we need to start looking beyond a persons’ physical attributes. If not that, we should at least have the decency to think about who we’re hurting, and how it’s affecting everyone.
Fri 30 Jan 2009 at 22:47:33
“As a victim of multiple eating disorders, I definitely have to say these categorization acts have powerful impacts on women today. ”
Not sure I agree with the word victem…you might SUFFER from them…but they are self inflected….you can not be a victem of them…speaking from the point of view of a person who ended up in the hospital because I never ate anything, because I thought I was fat…even though I had a 24 inch waist. If you made me eat I would throw up immediatly.
I was not a victem of the eating disorder…I was DUMB for allowing society and my boyfriend at the time to convince me that I was fat.
You are responsible for your own actions. You are responsible for your own thoughts. And YOU are responsible for changing your mind set. Laying blame on an external causes means you will never get heatlhy
Fri 30 Jan 2009 at 23:04:24
or even the word victim – sigh – typo queen strikes again.
And the opinion above is seperate from my opinion on todays media and the need to see people has beautiful regardless of shape, size etc.
I see nothing wrong with a persion expressing their views on beauty. What if this post was not on thick black women…but on an orchid…would people be offended on behalf of other flowers. A person is allowed to appreciate beauty in all forms. It doesnt mean that if a person lacks “beauty” but has wit and charm and intelligence – that abagond or any other person – wouldnt be attracted to them. This post is about beauty – and there is nothing wrong with enjoying beauty.
I am tired of the womens tantrums on this site and on other blogs.
“I am not thin – so stop expressing your love of thin women”
“I am not thick – its not fair that you like them”
I am not white or I am not black or I am not what ever. Each of the tantrums above come from a self absorbed placed. Its about them and how you havent glorified them and how you make THEM FEEL. Most of what abagond finds beatiful – I LACK…SO WHAT.
I enjoy his writing from the point of view a person reading a review about a piece of art…he is describing beauty – and the way this world is today – I will take beauty and things that come from a good heart any day.
(You caught me very tired and sick of people who choose to get offended about everything.)
Sat 31 Jan 2009 at 03:13:29
i don’t get it. why people get mad because not everybody agrees with what abagond is saying? okay everybody got opinions whether we like it or not. like i said i didn’t get offended but i just didn’t like the comment that was made my thin women. look at what erica was saying about how she felt. how come no one say anything about that? if abagond wanted to make a blog about how he felt and wanted people’s opinion, then hey, don’t get mad when someone disagrees. if no one likes what other people or women have to say then ignore it in my opinion.
Sat 31 Jan 2009 at 03:58:54
Lil – I was not referring to your comment…I was referring to the list of comments as a whole…the number of women offended simply because he doesnt idealize them – angry or upset. But I could turn your question back at you. why do you care if he thinks thin women dont have a figure. This is his blog.. I didnt get offended when he said white women have souless eyes. Or that he finds white womens skin less attractive or that he finds my natural hair (straight light brown) less attractive. Its what HE finds beautiful.
And mostly I was responding the the overwhelming number of women who act like its offensive if a man likes a physcial appearance. Physcial appearance IS important. Its how we choose one apple over another – reject one car for another…and how we FIRST notice a mate. Its not why you keep the mate but it is what you first notice.
Sun 1 Feb 2009 at 04:52:09
like i said davida i didn’t get offended i just didn’t agree. besides we both have different view. it’s nothing wrong with a man liking a physical appearance but if you view the just as a physical then sometimes it does come off as sexist. i could care less of what he find beautiful but i wanted to give my opinion. if this is his blog, why not say something that doesn’t come off as mean? so like i said if no one likes what my opinion is then that’s on them. and it should be more than just a physical to a woman because women want to be looked more than just a sexual feeling or object. not saying that abagond does that but other men as well.
Fri 27 Feb 2009 at 15:31:08
Abagond is it possible if you can take down all of my comments? I’ll explain later!
Fri 27 Feb 2009 at 15:33:57
Oh nevermind I see your contact information.
Wed 4 Mar 2009 at 14:22:39
HERE IS A BLACK WOMAN, 100% REAL, 100% AFRICAN AND NATURALLY HOT. http://www.zimtownship.com/underdev/news/alphabeta/zimbabwe.php?zimbabwe=f10b1805d6266dea12fcacd1e9711be5&lp=mc
Sun 8 Mar 2009 at 19:22:15
I DISAGREE WITH YOUR IDEAL OF THE DIFFERENT IN THIN AND THICK. SOME WOMEN YOU HAD AS THICK, IS NOT REALLY THICK. AND SOME WOMEN YOU HAD AS THIN IS NOT THIN. THICKNESS IS DETERMINED BY THE BUTT, WAIST, AND UPPER BODY SIZE BASE ON HEIGHT. 36-26-38 ON A 5′ 1″ WOMEN IS THICK; 36-28-44 ON A 5′ 4″ WOMEN IS THICK; 38-29-48 ON A 5′ 7″ IS THICK. ONLY A MAN OF TRUE THICKNESS UNDERSTANDING, KNOW THICKNESS WHEN IS APPEAR.
Wed 11 Mar 2009 at 02:10:36
It’s really good to view all of these comments about thin, thick and full figured…… I’m what you call thick. 158 lbs 40-29-47. I’m a dark skinned sistah.Yes I get a lot of attention in the world but it’s negative. People automatically assume I’m this sex kitten. It’s very humiliating at times. I’m single, never been married, i have no children and I‘m educated……..I seem to only attract dogs…..people say….change what you wear…..how? i can’t hide my curves.……. I know this message was to distinguish the differences between the body types and to acknowledge what one prefers however; why is it that most men see me as meat? I have two best friends one weighs approximately 99lbs and the other weighs about 250lbs and then there is me……we fit all three of these “categories” and guess what we each complain about something. I complain that I get all the looser guys, my thin friend states that guys view her as “not sexy enough or not womanly” my full figured friend complains about not finding clothes and men who think she will put up with anything because of her weight. My point…we all complain….we all have issues. Don’t get so caught up in preference. I tell ya what I would like to see real models. Can we get that going? Real People Real Models inc. What’s with all this high fashion mess? Have you looked in the magazines lately. I wouldn’t be caught dead in some of those outfits. It seems that in the real world they prefer thick, in the Hollywood world they prefer thin but in the real world what they end up with is full figured……..and this goes back to the original writer…abagond……..o.k. not everyone ends up full figured but I’m trying to make a point…….let’s embrace our differences .
Wed 11 Mar 2009 at 20:20:03
well erica johnson i agree and i think we need to embrace what we have and yes women of all sizes complain about how we look because a lot of them may not fit to what is beautiful because of what society thinks. but there are some people that will never understand no matter how much you talk about it. i think most men you are around see you as meat because of what kind of body you have. a lot of guys like that in a woman so they want to get with that but i also think it’s wrong because you’re only viewed for your body and not your personality.
Thu 12 Mar 2009 at 19:50:33
Your initially viewed for your body. Anyone who says they dont look at the physical first is a liar. Its what first is obvious. the personality is second – but more important. The nly place where you see a persons personality creating the relationship first is online…because its virtual and takes physical out of it.
In the real world…the physical is what brings them into the store…the personality is what closes the deal.
Fri 13 Mar 2009 at 18:03:52
erika johnson Says:
Wed 11 Mar 2009 at 02:10:36
“It’s really good to view all of these comments about thin, thick and full figured…… I’m what you call thick. 158 lbs 40-29-47. I’m a dark skinned sistah.Yes I get a lot of attention in the world but it’s negative. People automatically assume I’m this sex kitten. It’s very humiliating at times. I’m single, never been married, i have no children and I‘m educated……..I seem to only attract dogs…..people say….change what you wear…..how? i can’t hide my curves.……. I know this message was to distinguish the differences between the body types and to acknowledge what one prefers however; why is it that most men see me as meat? I have two best friends one weighs approximately 99lbs and the other weighs about 250lbs and then there is me……we fit all three of these “categories” and guess what we each complain about something. I complain that I get all the looser guys, my thin friend states that guys view her as “not sexy enough or not womanly” my full figured friend complains about not finding clothes and men who think she will put up with anything because of her weight. My point…we all complain….we all have issues. Don’t get so caught up in preference. I tell ya what I would like to see real models. Can we get that going? Real People Real Models inc. What’s with all this high fashion mess? Have you looked in the magazines lately. I wouldn’t be caught dead in some of those outfits. It seems that in the real world they prefer thick, in the Hollywood world they prefer thin but in the real world what they end up with is full figured……..and this goes back to the original writer…abagond……..o.k. not everyone ends up full figured but I’m trying to make a point…….let’s embrace our differences.”
Erika, you sound like a very attractive woman. Unfortunately, the men who are so obvious in giving you attention, the dogs, don’t know how to treat a lady. I guarantee you that there are true gentlemen out there who are just as attracted to you, but are likely too shy to approach you.
Sun 15 Mar 2009 at 01:30:20
Erica, I agree with you – let’s embrace our differences. What you say is very true. Thin women are made to be not womanly or sexy enough.
Thick women do attract a lot of dogs and pervs, that’s reality. I think it’s because those types of men don’t know what makes a woman special.
Thin women attract quality men, but the problem is that those who like thick women or have something against thin, make it their mission to put thin women down. I think it’s because they think thin women have it easy, which isn’t true. I just don’t understand that.
BTW, thin women can be sex kittens too. Stacy Dash? To me, that is another way of saying that your attractive.
Sun 15 Mar 2009 at 20:41:35
i think a lot of people attack thin women because they get more attention and that’s what you see in movies, magazines, t.v., etc. although i must agree with that because they are put as the standard of what beautiful is BUT that doesn’t mean it’s ok to bash thin women to uplift thick women that don’t get recognize and that’s what i hate. at first i did the same thing but then when i think about it, it’s wrong to put others down. we need to embrace what we have. thin women are attractive and so are thick women but all that bashing women’s bodies is not going to solve anything but make it worse.
Mon 16 Mar 2009 at 02:15:35
the “race & beauty” aspect is interesting, at least for me coming from an northern-european country were we don´t have to deal with the northern american “race”-term. here we almost seem to exoticise people who don´t look superwhite sometimes. (not in a bad way) like, scandinavian men are fascinated by brazilian, mediterranaen and japanese girls for example.
and one thing you can notice extremely well is that the “skinny” thing goes very much for american (white) men, but not at all with scandinavian men as much. sc. men like all type of women but more or less curvy girls. ( not silicone). but in n. america these white men like girls that are really actually skinny, like the victoria secret models. not wrong being skinny, just pointing it out.
Mon 16 Mar 2009 at 02:18:05
by this I mean that i´m sure its in the northern american “white” culture, like media, to learn to like superskinny girls and not their “race” ( and I hate using the term race because I don´t believe there exists any, but as you use it here)
Fri 20 Mar 2009 at 11:51:12
very intresting
Tue 31 Mar 2009 at 02:49:26
The truth is that many women don’t really have the option of being “thick”. If a girl has small breasts and a flat ass, carrying a few extra pounds is going to make her even more shapeless.
The reason “thin” is so popular is because it’s attainable for every woman, and man. After all, you can’t increase your (natural) breast size or butt size, but you can reduce your waist size. I actually think your classification system is completely wrong. Women are born “shapely” or “unshapely”, and at any given moment they are “skinny”, “healthy”, or “fat”. There are plenty of skinny-unshapely women out there, but the most highly sought after (tyra banks, beyonce, angelina jolie) are the skinny-shapely type. Only the fact that they are shapely lets these women occasionally get away with being more than skinny.
While there are some unfortunate consequences of this cultural paradigm, there’s really no one to blame for it. Just as the “pressure” to be muscular and fat-free has caused some young men to take steroids, it’s the result of our natural differences. Whatever standard of beauty you set up, there will be some who come by it naturally, some who have to work for it, and some who can never attain it.
Thu 2 Apr 2009 at 06:09:06
All said,i love black women and i prefer them the way they are traditionally-THICK.(THERES A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THICK AND FAT)I would not trade anything in the world for that.Everybody has his own likes and dislikes.personally i am attracted to thick BLACK WOMEN.Now what in the world could be wrong with this?Have you even noticed that even the white men who have shoved the Figure of a thin,skeleton looking like woman as the standard of beauty down our throats,Love Sophia Loren and Marilyn Monroe,who have the curves most thick black women have?Lets be real!Any thick woman there,with a good heart for me?
Fri 3 Apr 2009 at 04:47:49
That is just how I feel too.
Tue 21 Apr 2009 at 01:46:15
I don’t know what most black men see in fat women… Yall know some black men like fat women… I’m a black man
Tue 21 Apr 2009 at 03:22:49
well bard not all women that’s skinny look like skeletons. if white men want them then let them but we shouldn’t have to stoop down to their level when it comes to beauty because women of all races come in different shapes.
Tue 28 Apr 2009 at 01:54:28
interesting! i know i’m a little late here, however, i agree with post right above me. slim can be curvy as well. i in fact am slim, curvy, yet athletic…i’ve dated at least 2 men (black) who prefer women on the slim side with nice assets to boost!
Thu 4 Jun 2009 at 01:34:16
I LOVE this post!
It is SO on point.
Even as a straight black woman I am tired of seeing all these fat black women out here.
People are looking at me as if I am from another planet. I’m cute, true (tootin my horn because I do have something to toot) but seeing someone my size around here is rare.
I’m somewhere between thin and thick. I’m naturally curvy, and, before I had and breastfed 3 children, was considered a black version of Jessica Rabbit.
There are ladies younger than me that I feel should be ashamed of themselves for being so gluttonous… black women for a long time have been sought after as exotic by the world over for centuries! This century we are fast losing that title, babes!
We need to reclaim it.
Being so big shows not only an unhealthy appetite but an unhealthy mind set as well. Something’s not right if we can’t care enough about ourselves to put the fork down, to run on a treadmill a while, to do a few sit ups…
…something’s not right.
I’m going to send people to your post, sir.
Fri 5 Jun 2009 at 05:35:18
Thanks. Part of why I wrote this post is because I felt that “thick” was a useful word but was being watered down by women who are just plain fat.
Sat 6 Jun 2009 at 03:25:48
I have always been thin, but I always considered to have a very shapely figure to be thin… Men tend to like the arch in my back and my butt has the heart shape and I have a gap… Now with all that being said Black Men have always liked my body type but I have to agree with (Daryl April 9th) I’ve noticed more affluent Men like my body type and gangbangers and gangstas like the thick girlz..
Sat 6 Jun 2009 at 03:34:40
BTW racerealist– its easier to be fat than thin…get it strait
Fri 12 Jun 2009 at 07:08:51
Agabond,
I do like reading your blog and it’s refreshing to encounter a black man who appreciates all aspects of a black woman’s beauty (mind body spirit). I also can appreciated the love for thick women. It’s nice to know that women don’t have to be “boyish” and angular like those runway models to be considered attractive. However, I resent the phrase that “real women have curves” and it seems “natural”. Yes, I am thin and a natural woman, I’m reminded of that fact every month! Your blog addresses current limited definitions of beauty with respect to black women and here you are using terms like “natural” to describe a thick women’s body. Is that not a limited definition of what is considered attractive? So are thin black women unnatural? However, you are entitled to your opinion. The idea that special privileges are afforded to thin women is asinine, don’t believe the hype. I have yet to reap those rewards! What does it matter that some men like thin women? It’s their prerogative,just as it is yours to find thick chicks attractive, chaque un a son gout! Although, thank you for breaking it down. I understand that the post was to clarify the differences between, fat, thick and thin. But Chances are when a man/woman sees an attractive person they don’t consider the internal mental processes that cause them to be attracted to a particular individual. I can personally attest to this, when I saw Morris Chestnut in person I was dumbstruck.
Sat 13 Jun 2009 at 16:25:19
Thanks i always thougth thick was closer to fat. I never associated it with curves. Since you put it that way THICK is sexy
Sun 14 Jun 2009 at 01:14:12
thin african beauty, that was great with what you said. as i said before there is nothing wrong with being a thin girl. even if she is a thin girl, that doesn’t make her beautiful compare to a woman that’s thick? if white guys want to date thin women then that’s their choice beautiful they must like something about her besides her body. it’s all about choices in who we go for and shouldn’t have to judge someone for who they go with.
Thu 2 Jul 2009 at 01:47:50
i just love this site it is the beat site here xxx
Mon 20 Jul 2009 at 05:11:17
Abagond, i appreciate your website. You do a good job at presenting most types of african beauty. I am a full sized woman and unlike half of the people who commented, i am not offended by your preference for thick women. I am not gay, but if i were a man, i would want a woman who was not too thin and too not big. A woman who is big in the right places. It makes sense. I am not sure why so many women were so upset at you. I am going to assume they were very young and were still suffering from experiences that they went through in high school. When you get older, you get a thicker skin. I am not saying that i don’t get my feelings hurt when people are mean to big people but to post 50 comments trying to change other peoples opinions is ridiculous. Besides i don’t think it was your intention to hurt anyone! I think it is just that women are sensitive to the issues regarding weight. Women are judged way too often by their looks and some women have become bitter. Other women’s anger is just a mask for grief.
Wed 29 Jul 2009 at 23:55:30
What the hell is wrong with you people?!!!
Ya’ll need to take a trip to the south because women raised in the south naturally have thick bodies. It doesn’t matter if she’s fat, thick or skinny, she can still have an hourglass or pear shaped figure. A small waist and a big ass don’t make you thick. A woman can have a significant amount of weight AND still have an attractive figure even if she’s apple shaped. In fact, most apple shaped women are quite proportionate.
Thu 30 Jul 2009 at 01:19:39
I can’t believe this debate is still going on….. I left a message awhile ago… march 11th 2009. The bottom line people…..Abagond is entitled to his own opinion……you can’t change it…..I’m really surprised at all of the women making the comments……I want to encourage everyone to embrace their inner beauty….just because you are thin don’t mean you are healthy…just because you have a small waist and a big butt..don’t mean you’re better in bed and just because you’re “fat” don’t mean you are nasty…….i know plenty of sickly skinny girls, plenty of “thick” girls carrying hiv and plenty of “fat” girls that are happily married…..Ladies let’s quit hating on each other and embrace each other….Exercise, eat better and let’s stop with all of this nonsense…..our male suitors will follow suit….Confidence is key…….Love yourself.
Thu 30 Jul 2009 at 03:27:51
i want to say that i wasn’t trying to change abagond’s opinion. i was just stating how i feel about how people felt and were saying about thin women. people choose to uplift thicker women while trash thin women as if we don’t any feelings. like i said i’m not trying to change his opinions because if that’s what he likes then hey i can’t do anything about it. but what i don’t like is people commenting on this board bashing thin women just to uplift women who do have curves. there were other women that were thin like me that were offended by some of the people’s comments about thin women. just because we’re thin doesn’t mean we’re not woman enough or look like one because we are and that’s what god made us to be. njeri, no one is up here to change someone’s opinions and why is it that thin women like me, express how we feel, you assume we complain or you think we’re young and in high school. sorry but i’m not in high school. some of the women that did express their opinions just want respect and look as a human being. there is nothing bitter about me nor am i angry. i just want people to see that thin women have it just as bad as thicker women. but i guess some people will never get it.
Tue 4 Aug 2009 at 19:32:43
I grew up in Canada right next door to Detroit. I now live in Toronto. It doesn’t matter what your game is or where you are if it’s going to happen it’s going to happen. Doesn’t matter about race creed, color, gender for some folks or age. Don’t believe anything anybody tells you. Trust in your self and your instincts. If it don’t feel right, smells, looks funny in sunlight that you see right through them, walk on or if you want to find out, ask. Saves time and money. Takes practice but at least it’s YOUR choice. After a five minute of scrutiny , you’ll know whether it’s worth another five. And always, always, no matter what, have a way home. I know I’m not the only one that got stuck cross town waiting for someone to finish their business on my time because they drove.
Taxi!
otbear
Sat 8 Aug 2009 at 23:23:03
Abagond is happy as long as thick women is on a pedestol. If you chew down thin and heavy women it is ok. When others respond and insult them he says nothing; as long as thick women is not talked about. Women can be beautiful of all sizes Abagond.
Sat 8 Aug 2009 at 23:26:44
I believe in confidence as well and not letting men decide what is sexy. All the women here are right but women have to embrace their bodies and not look for others including men and hollywood to compliment it and define our beauty.
Tue 11 Aug 2009 at 22:23:20
men we cant all look like Beyonce, stop crushing our confidence, Start appreciating us in out different shapes. Yes thenarrow waist big booty has always been attractive but what makes it YOUR prefered body. The media ofcourse. do u know that very few women actually fall into that catergory. I myself dont thts why this is an issue for me. Stop crushing our confidence!! please stop. The booty obsession is not fair. Ive never heard women who go on about broad shoulders and six pack, thts because we are deeper than than.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 06:14:11
Yes Angel I agree with you totally but unfortunately, men are visual and the curvy body is programmed in their head to like. Men are attracted to childbearing women; menaning, women with a small waist to hip ratio and round butt. If you look this up, this is women whose body shape is built hour glass-like which is interpreted as a young fertile women who is healthy. Men are not attracted to these type women on purpose, it is almost in their DNA make-up. Just like women are emotional and is attracted to leadership-like men; meaning a man with power and status. Men get mad at us and say we are gold diggers but it is really status and power is what women are attracted to. Now the problem with men’s selection of women is that all of us is not that body-type. Where does that leads us? Sometimes that leaves many of us left out like the really thin women and heavy-set women. I understand Angel because I know what it is like to be at the club and men are not asking me to dance because I am not the curvy type. I am more heavy-set. At the same time though, women are not constantly talking about men’s body and face. That is because we are not visual as they are. The problem is that I find it offensive that they diss women who are not on their selection. At the end of the day, we don’t know Abagond or any of these other men who talk about what they like. The problem with that is when men leave some women out it is offensive. There are more women for these men so there will be women left out. My last comment is we cannot let men define our beauty. There is still a such thing as there is somebody for everybody. We can’t live our life for the media. I may have more weight then the small waisted women but hey, I may have the best damn husband in the world that love me and my body and feel nothing else is better. I think I rather have a life like that then what others want me to have.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 06:39:13
Well put.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 15:08:58
Starlite u put it very well.I love this site! i really do, i like how Abagond says things the way they are…doesnt try to be politically correct or anything. He likes thick women! thts him. But despite it being a biological thing, jus out for the sake of expanding out thoughts. When men on here say the western ideas of beauty have been imposed on people…so has the big booty phenomenon. Men are wired to like curves but not photoshoped ones…they can think beyond that right??? we women on the other hand are wired to look for security in men, but are we designed to want lamboginiz (sp) specifically….all im saying is there must be reasoning in our preferences because we exist in a real world not hollywood.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 19:25:53
I think men are programmed to want a healthy, fertile mate and the quick sign of that is looks. Thickness is part of that.
Women are programmed to want a man who can give them security so they can bring up those children, and the signs of that are money, rank and faithfulness.
But layered on top of that are Hollywood ideas of beauty and love and life. Hollywood is “not real” but it does affect how people think.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 19:52:15
angel you’re right! not all women can look like beyonce and have that hourglass shape. like you said appreciate women for who we are and not the shape of our bodies. starlite you are right about one thing, if someone trash talks thick women abagond gets defensive but let someone be negative about thin women then he says nothing or agrees with them. people shouldn’t have to tell women what they should look like and then they wonder why young girls are so insecure with themselves because of comments that people make. you hardly hear women complain about what kind of body type they want from a man. we shouldn’t let men define our beauty but sometimes as women we look for someone to tell us we’re beautiful and then bash a different body type to make them feel better and that’s wrong. there’s nothing wrong with women having curves because i’m not saying it’s wrong but i don’t agree with people saying, “that’s how a woman should look like and not a 12 year old boy” or “real women have curves”, which to me is offensive because not all women will have that kind of body type. i’ve been talking about this issue since i’ve been on here, some get it but some never will. thin women can produced babies and give birth to them regardless of how small their hips are. i feel that when women who have a different body type express their opinions, people think they’re attacking abagond’s views when it’s not like. all we’re saying is understand where we are coming from and see that we have feelings just like other women. thin women do exist in this world and are women too and i think people should stop putting us down because of what the media does. they may put thin women on pedestals but how many thin women do you know are in hollywood? i hate this whole beauty standard and it should stop.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 20:10:51
@lil’vina:
Very well said! I am of Asian descent, and I don’t know how many times I’ve been told I don’t have a typical Asian figure whatever that means. I have breasts, and hips, and a bit of a butt (I wish I had more of it. lol!) Anyways, that could be in part to proper nutrition being raised up in the West and all. However, my mother doesn’t have the typical Asian figure either so I’m chalking it up to genetics. You have to make do with what you’ve been born with and I’ll be damned if someone will tell me I’m not a real woman because I don’t posses certain attributes.
Sun 16 Aug 2009 at 20:21:44
L.T.- thanks and i agree.
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 01:09:19
This is so stupid. Being thick does NOT indicate if someone is healty and fertile. If that were true, the population would be less than half than it is now.
I don’t think it’s wired for a man to like curvy thick women. Believe it or not, there are a lot of men who like thin women. And believe it or not, thin women are just as healty and fertile as thick.
Just not all women like power/money. I could care less about that because I want my own paper. I do want someone who is extremely humble, sensitive and loyal.
Yeah, lil’vina, this does need to stop!
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 01:12:18
@ starlite
“Abagond is happy as long as thick women is on a pedestol. If you chew down thin and heavy women it is ok. When others respond and insult them he says nothing; as long as thick women is not talked about. Women can be beautiful of all sizes Abagond.”
That’s true too! Very insightful.
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 05:42:36
For what it is worth, I never said that ONLY thick women can be beautiful, merely that I preferred them, all things being equal.
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 06:07:51
I think some men, like me, are wired to like thick women and some are wired to like thin women and some are in between and can go either way, depending on whatever Hollywood is currently pushing (curvy in the 1960s, thin in the 2000s).
These days food is plentiful and thick women do not have much of an edge in terms of having children, but in the old days they did.
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 18:30:34
Fortunately, men have evolved from the
old days and like a great selection of women. But that is a contridiction, first you said that men are hard wired to like thick women. I don’t think anyone should try to push any type of women on men. If a man likes thin women, let him. That’s his choice.
Mon 17 Aug 2009 at 19:04:49
Naomi Campbell has the one of the hottest boddies in the world. Damm thats a hot girl! But I would’nt wish her on my worst emnemy!
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 04:46:30
Abagond, where does the heavy girls fall in on all of this? I am sure far as hell away from you. This is how shallow men are: You have a heavy wife but fantasizes about thick women. Hey, its not my business but I don’t care what any woman says, if my husband was fat then he is my top fantasy; If he was thin he would be my top fantasy; If he was muscular then he would be my fantasy. I wouldn’t get a websit talking about all the Denzels of the world. It just goes to show you that maybe you are being overboard on this issue. Some women were criticised on here for saying insecure comments. Men are insecure also. Especially if they have a two year old website talking about women that don’t fit their significant other’s body. I think we should appreciate broader forms of beauty and appreciate what our significant other looks like and there will be a lot more happy people.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 04:49:53
By the way Abagond, I have a new name. I wanted to get a name that didn’t sound like a regular name. I’m being a little nicer and not bold as I was.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 06:52:45
I agree with some sentiments in the comments–I’m always skeptical of a bigger woman who says “I wouldn’t want to look like a 12-year-old boy anyway!” or something similar. The way I see it, if you were really comfortable with your size, you wouldn’t feel the need to put thin women down. (I am generally of the unpopular opinion that if women had the option of choosing between being fat and being thin 99% of them would choose thin–hence my skepticism.) I’m thin, and I don’t look like a boy. In fact, thin and hourglass are not mutually exclusive. I have an hourglass shape, albeit a small hourglass, and I only weigh 110lbs.
I don’t see your post as a declaration of hard and fast beauty standards, Abagond (no matter how strict people try to make their preferences, there are always exceptions), but I will say that the word curvy is overused and misused as a euphemism for “fat.” I mentioned my weight above, and I am curvy (according to some). There are no weight limits on body shapes, and I think curvy as the new “fat” just encourages *some* people to maintain unhealthy weights.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 09:24:18
Right, it is an all-things-being-equal thing. There are women I like who are thin and who are fat. Anyone who has read widely in this blog knows that I do not apply beauty in a strict, checklist way even though some of the posts might lead you to believe that because, being just 500 words long, they can only talk about one particular thing at a time, like thickness in this case.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 09:49:00
starlite (formerly known as tammy walker):
I do not want heavy girls the hell away from me. I prefer thick women, all things being equal, but that hardly means that I ONLY like thick women. My wife is a case in point. She was thick when I met her and now she is fat, but I still love her and still love to look at her.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 15:26:03
@Jasmin
“I agree with some sentiments in the comments–I’m always skeptical of a bigger woman who says “I wouldn’t want to look like a 12-year-old boy anyway!” or something similar. The way I see it, if you were really comfortable with your size, you wouldn’t feel the need to put thin women down. (I am generally of the unpopular opinion that if women had the option of choosing between being fat and being thin 99% of them would choose thin–hence my skepticism.)”
Thank you!!!! That’s what some of us have been saying, but people refuse to understand that. Anytime you have to put somone else down to uplift you or another group of people, you have the problem – not them.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 18:20:42
what jasmin said i agree with everything.
Wed 19 Aug 2009 at 23:41:26
I commented on the post similar to this one already, but thanks again.
Thu 20 Aug 2009 at 07:27:13
Only thing I don’t agree with Jazmin about is that the word thick will make overweight women practice more unhealthy habits. I am heavy I don’t use anything to represent myself but my name. If I had a choice I would say thick before I would call myself “Big fat ass bitch” like some black men like to chracterize heavy women. I am not into name calling especially when referring to myself. I am not criticizing just slightly disagreeing.:)
Thu 20 Aug 2009 at 22:28:21
Starlite, I don’t think a word can “make” anyone do anything, hence why I didn’t say that. But I do think labelling every woman in the range of Beyonce to Mo’Nique “thick” makes it easier for some women to fool themselves into thinking that they are an acceptable size, healthwise. It’s anecdotal evidence, but I (and likely countless others) have several morbidly obese relatives who insist on labelling themselves “thick and sexy.” Dying of a heart attack at age 30 is definitely not sexy.
My opinion is, given the rising levels of obesity in America, people should stop running a self-esteem campaign and start encouraging people of all sizes to get healthy. Admitting that you need to make changes for a healthier lifestyle isn’t a sign of defeat or surrender to beauty standards, etc.; It’s taking care of yourself and maximizing your lifespan. I feel some people take the whole “I’m thick/big/fat, I like it and I’m never going to change!” mantra a little too far.
Thu 20 Aug 2009 at 23:23:31
I agree with Jasmin to an extent.
Too many people who are fat call themselves thick. But I also think to some extent this kinda thing is subjective. I’ve seen some really beautiful, thick curvy women called fat. To those people, those women did look fat, but not to me.
And as much as it is good to encourage people to stay healthy, for some people it isn’t that easy. I would choose not to judge people who are overweight. Some people have circumstances which limit the ability or access to resources for a healthy life style.
Fri 21 Aug 2009 at 00:14:50
i agree with jasmin. the people that do want brag “i’m big/thick/fat and i love it and won’t change” should stop because just as much people shouldn’t be saying that being a size 0 is beautiful, most people shouldn’t be saying it’s okay to be big and unhealthy. we need to tell people to love yourself, including ALL body types and like jasmin said, be healthy.
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 01:06:00
Ummm every overweight women is not like that. If so what is it to you me or whomever. Sounds like Jasmin you choose to believe overweight people are unhealthy. What about Halle Berry who is much more unhealthy then me and she is thinner. She has diabetes, back problems and hypertension. Jasmin that is true people are dying of heart attacks at age 30 but they are not all overweight (that is where your comment is out of context). Let’s not make this a fat hating conversation. America needs to lose weight and keep healthy. Anyway, regardless of what a women’s size is, it is how the body is structured. Sherry Shepard lost a lot of weight but her body type is so awkward that it doesn’t matter what size she is, she will be built that way. However there is some guys out there will love her just the way she is. I am sure that guy won’y be Abagond lol.
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 02:43:10
Starlite, the only one making this a fat-hating conversation is you, which speaks more to your personal issues than this blog thread. I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth because I didn’t say “every” overweight woman is anything, just like I didn’t say words can “make” people do anything, which you insinuated the first time. I don’t know what you are reading, but I said above (quote) “people should . . . start encouraging people of all sizes to get healthy.” (Emphasis on the “all sizes”; I don’t know if HTML tags work in the comments section.)
Unless you are Halle Berry’s physician, I doubt you know anything about her health, and that has nothing to do with this conversation anyway. The mention of people dying of heart attacks at age 30 was an example (duh…I won’t even address the fact that you used the term “out of context” completely out of context) to show that sometimes the “I love myself just the way I am” mantra can be life-threatening.
Once again, I am not talking about body structure. Health (as it is measured) involves a number of factors, including BMI, bone density, how well you do on physical fitness tests, etc. I never said anything about looking at people and guessing how healthy they are, because I really don’t care that much. (For the record, I think Sherri Shepherd is gorgeous, and I don’t think her body is “awkward” though it’s not like I spend a lot of time checking her out.)
The bottom line is, if you go to the doctor and s/he says that you are an unhealthy weight, losing weight doesn’t mean you are “giving in to American beauty standards” blah, blah, blah, and that’s how some people treat it. If people want to spew that crap all the way to the grave, that’s their prerogative. But people who truly love themselves care about their health, regardless of their size, more than they care about being the poster child for the “Kiss my fat ass!” campaign.
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 08:37:23
“if you go to the doctor and s/he says that you are an unhealthy weight, losing weight doesn’t mean you are “giving in to American beauty standards” blah, blah, blah, and that’s how some people treat it”. 100% true. if a doctor tells me i need to lose weight for my health, then i’m going to do it because i love myself to want to stay alive and not die because i chose to be stubborn and get caught up with what society and other people says. i don’t think jasmin is making it a fat hating conversation because all she’s saying is that we need to telling people of all sizes to be healthy instead of having this mentality “i like my size and won’t change it”, knowing it could be harming your health. and this is not towards someone that’s big because you can be skinny and unhealthy. everybody can preach the whole “love yourself” but so quick to say something negative about someone’s body type. i swear sometimes hollywood can be so wishy washy. one minute they promote women to be size 0s, then the next “curves are in”. that’s why we can’t get caught up in what hollywood says because we end up believing that dumb shit and hating ourselves because of what hollywood wants and we don’t live there.
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 19:38:23
Yeah Lil Vina Hollywood thought process is crap. I think the thing is, looking good on camera because it adds 15 ponds or something. Now Jasmin I actually was talking to Abagond although he didn’t answer my question fully. Jasmin, you did make to different references and one was about being overwight, the heart attack conversation and promoting healthiness. Promoting healthiness for all is not pointing one particular body type out then saying “There are no weight limits on body shapes, and I think curvy as the new “fat” just encourages *some* people to maintain unhealthy weights. I also pointed out Halle Berry because she said herself she is dealing with diabetes and hypertension. She is an example of someone thin having health issues. The stereotype is that a person would be overweight with those issues. Anyway, Abagond: What do you think of thin women who are shapely. There are a lot of thin women who are hour glass but is just small with it. Are they considered as valuable on the attractive scale as thick women?
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 22:13:16
starlite said:
“Abagond: What do you think of thin women who are shapely. There are a lot of thin women who are hour glass but is just small with it. Are they considered as valuable on the attractive scale as thick women?”
Shape matters more than size.
Most of the women listed under “thin” in the post I consider to be beautiful. Some of them, like Naomi Campbell, are better looking to me than most of the thick women. On the other hand, almost all of the thin women would look better to me if they had a thicker figure. That is just how it seems to me.
Example: I have always thought Alicia Keys was beautiful, but now that her figure has filled out some she looks even better to me.
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 22:22:08
Clearly, health should come before beauty. On the other hand, the measures doctors use to determine body fat are based on studies done on white women. They do not seem to apply as well to black women. The Black Snob has more on that:
http://blacksnob.com/snob_blog/2009/6/23/youre-not-fat-youre-just-big-boned-now-proven-as-real-thing.html
Sun 23 Aug 2009 at 22:34:06
Ok, I was just wondering. However, I think looks do come into play. I could be wrong because i am not a man so Abagond you can correct me If I am. It seems men are not saying, I am going to look at the most heathiest women. Anyone an be unhealthy. Like i said about Halle Berry, she has some unhealthy issues with her going on. I will not say she is unhealthy but just issues. Men don’t care, it is that fact she is attractive and that counts. Seems like doctors are not nowhere in a man’s mind when it comes to attraction and selecting a partner. What do you think Abagond?
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 03:20:10
Starlite:
I meant health should matter more to women at a personal level than their beauty. It will matter to a man at the level of physical attraction only if it affects her looks somehow, like hair falling, etc.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 07:37:46
Ok Abagond I see what you are getting at in your post. I think some may interpret the post as sexist or trying to leave certain women out. It could be true to an extent but I don’t think that was your intention. Seems to me you are saying you can like all women but “Thick” (medium built) women are your preference. It is not to say that other women are not attractive but they just appeal to you most. For instance; Brown and Dark-Skinned men are my preference but it is not to say white or light skinned men can’t be attractive. There are some white guys and light-skinned guys exceptionalize the rule such as Brad Pitt and Shamar Moore. On the normal I am more attracted to Larenz Tate and Omar Epps. Those two are the types that i would want on a daily basis. I understand what you are saying for the most part.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 08:27:57
I think you got it.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 08:35:02
Starlite and Jasmin:
I deleted comments by both of you that seemed to be getting too personal.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 13:05:25
“On the other hand, the measures doctors use to determine body fat are based on studies done on white women.”
In Germany the doctors are slowly replacing BMI with waist measurements as the latter is considered more relevant for predicting heart disease.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 13:10:49
“So THAT’S why when I was 242 lbs no one actually believed I was 242 lbs and why when I was 165 lbs everyone thought I was 132 lbs. I can’t help it if all my weight is carried in my ass! I knew I wasn’t that fat! In your FACE, body mass index!”
I weigh 5′4″, 180 lbs, and look fit. Nobody believes that I weigh that much. I know WW who look positively obese with stomach rolls and thighs so wide they can barely walk who are TALLER than me and weigh 150 lbs. It’s crazy but it is a REAL difference.
Mon 24 Aug 2009 at 13:14:42
It’s simple: fat weighs less than muscle. I’ve actually been gaining weight since I’ve started working out a year ago at the same time that my dress size goes down.
My daughter has the same issue. We went for her well-baby checkup a few months ago and they put her in the grossly obese category even though she’s really thin. She does weigh a TON, though; she’s like a stone. It was funny because the nurse weighed her three times and checked to see if the scale was broken; she couldn’t believe it. LOL!
Tue 25 Aug 2009 at 02:00:32
Well I will end this by making the general point that you can’t take people’s comments or posts personally without evidence that said comment/post is directed at you. You can debate it all you want, but extrapolating doesn’t fall within the bounds of logic.
Tue 25 Aug 2009 at 02:08:24
Black & German,
That’s actually not true. Fat and muscle don’t weigh differently; a pound of fat weighs the same as a pound of muscle. However, muscle is less dense than fat, so a pound of fat takes up more space than a pound of muscle. Since you’ve been working out, the fat on your body is changing to muscle, which is why you may weigh more but you look slimmer. That’s the biggest reason why the number on the scale doesn’t matter: 150lbs of fat looks way bigger than 150lbs of muscle.
Sat 26 Sep 2009 at 04:39:22
I find this discussion very interesting. I went from being a painfully skinny teenager with no hips, no behind, just boobs. To a 39 year old mother of 4 with hips, boobs, and booty for days (which some men think is a good thing) I am now blessed with curves, but after 4 c-sections, I now have a tummy, so I guess that has crossed me over from thick to fat,lol. Growing up in Brooklyn in the 80’s, thin was not in, at all. There was a time in my life I would pray for some meat on my bones. Now that I have some curves, I find that it is not acceptable either. I am a size 13, a double d cup, and 5ft2. There is sooo much pressure now days to be thin, that if you can pinch more than an inch, you are in trouble. And if you have kids, you better look like you don’t. You have to eat, sleep and s—, the gym in order to stay a size 6, especially once you hit a certain age. Don’t get me wrong, going to the gym and exercise, and eating right is a good thing, but thick ain’t where it’s at either. At least not in my case. Where I live brothers have fallen victim to the European standard of beauty so much, that if you are not a size 6, they will not look at you, they want that petite girl on their arm. A curvy woman you can have as a side dish,lol. I have been on both sides of the fence. Petite, and fat (formerly known as thick) I find with women of color, if you don’t fit the society standard of what is acceptable at the time, you can’t win. Petite women(size 3 to 7) blessed with breasts and booty are considered curvy or volouptious, And the average size woman (9 to 13), you may be considered overweight or fat. The standard of beauty seems to be getting smaller and smaller. Just my opinion.
Sat 26 Sep 2009 at 05:21:54
The standard of beauty does keep getting smaller but the women keep getting bigger.
Fri 2 Oct 2009 at 15:15:51
Interesting site:
http://www.femininebeauty.info/sexy-fashion-models
Fri 2 Oct 2009 at 15:19:00
May I note that, although her face still looks mannish, Heidi’s physique has been greatly improved by multiple pregnancies.
Tue 3 Nov 2009 at 04:27:49
aaahhh when are people going to realize that Beyonce isnt thick!! She has nice hips but not that much of a butt(ya really!_
real thick beautues include buffie the body, cubana lust, tasha destiny, etc. only some of the women posted in the “thick” section are actually thick, like bria myles
Tue 3 Nov 2009 at 04:46:52
^^^
You’re right, Beyonce isn’t truly thick. At least, not in the traditional sense.
When Destiny’s Child first emerged in the late ’90s, Latavia Roberson was only the member of the group who had a stereotypical “sista body”.
What Beyonce has now is through the work of a rigerous and intense training program. She’s naturally kind of flat and not really thick…just like her mama.
Tue 3 Nov 2009 at 09:20:48
True: Beyonce used to be thin. Even in “Bootylicious” (2001). Notice that her nose was bigger then too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq-05yQQAgU
Some women do fill out between 16 and 25 (that would be 1997 to 2006 for Beyonce according to her stated age), but knowing Beyonce she left nothing to chance – so what Myname is saying makes sense.
I agree Bria Myles is a much better example of thickness, but I use Beyonce as the poster child because she is way better known.
Agreed about Latavia Roberson.
Sat 7 Nov 2009 at 10:31:22
Dear Abagond,
I appreciated your post. Feminists and logic is an oxymoron. All that feminists have contributed is an antipathy and distrust between the sexes leading to social break down and destruction. Feminists are full of hate and see everything through their jaundiced vision. There are only two kinds of people in this world – males and females—if they can’t get along then society will disintegrate.
A more clinical description of the types that you describe is as follows:
ectomorph—thin
mesomorph—thick
endomorph—fat
See http://tinyurl.com/ybgvo9o for more details.
I love mesomorphic women no matter what color they are. They make my pulse race. Why should you or I have to defend our taste in women? That would be like having to defend the fact one does or does not like to put salt on ones food. It is a matter of taste. De gustibus non est disputandum – there is no disputing in matters of taste.
For the record I am white and I love mesomorphic women of all color, so much more variety that way. I agree with your observation that a few decades ago white icons of beauty were mesomorphs but that changed. Why? Here is my theory. The vast majority of fashion designers are gay men, there sexual ideal is a young male, they don’t really like women. Is it any wonder then that the female models are androgynous and could easily pass for boys? Most white men that I know also much prefer mesomorphic women but white women have been fooled into thinking via the gay fashion industry that they should look like young gay men rather than what heterosexual men of any race find attractive.
Another politically incorrect point to ponder: form determines function. The form of a glass determines its function to hold liquid. It, of course, could be used as a hammer, but it would not fulfill that function well. What function then was the female form designed to carry out? Creating babies and raising children. Sure women have proved that they can become doctors and CEOs, etc. But they should go back to their real job because society is falling apart. What you can do and what you should do are not always the same.
Sat 7 Nov 2009 at 13:29:36
I agree that the fashion industry has a pretty gay pulse and its reflected in the new thin, tube-like ideals but the rest of your post just drips with sexism.
Feminism is about choice, who are you to say what a woman “should” do with her time here. What does being human really mean to you? You’re basically saying men should run the world and women should just raise their children. Women not confining themselves to being housewives is whats breaking up society? Not rampant greed, government and corporate corruption and public ignorance and complacency in a culture of plastic and excess?
And what screwed up “feminism” wasn’t the idea that men and women are equal and that one gender shouldn’t have to answer to the other, it was the fact that it was basically “White feminism”. The people on top are often dismissive of those they believe to be beneath them, these are the same people who feel attacked when people criticize and ultimately get mad at them.
Reducing feminism to hate and anger without seeing the part you played in it doesn’t really help. I know its off topic at this point but I just had to say something about that.
Sat 7 Nov 2009 at 14:27:09
@mesomorph
I agree wholeheartedly with what you said about feminism. It’s a vile socio-political disease! Which must be destroyed!
Sat 7 Nov 2009 at 21:42:53
mesomorph,
There is nothing wrong with your preferene, however, the problem begins when you start putting down women who don’t meet that. I personally take offense when people infer that men who like thin women must be gay. If you’ll note, some of the most promenient male designers are married and have children. I think the fact that they use thin women to showcase their designs is just the nature of the industry and not based on homo-erotic desire.
Also, not all models look androgenous. Adrianna Lima, Eva and Jessica White are some of the most feminine women I’ve ever seen – thick or thin.
Just my two cents.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 02:14:44
i agree with islandgirl. i hate it when people say guys that like thin women are gay and that is offensive. there are plenty of thin women that are attractive who have nice figures. halle berry, meagan good, eva longoria, just to name a few. they’re attractive and a lot of men like them a lot. and thin women can have children so you don’t necessarily have to have wide hips in order to have babies. a man is going to find any woman attractive regardless of what she looks like.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 05:06:41
mesomorph:
Some straight men do like thin women. I started out assuming that all men like thick women, like I do. But then I found out that it was not true, particularly with white and Asian men.
I think gay designers do affect the fashion industry’s idea of female beauty, but what drives it even more is something much simpler than that: Designers choose who models their clothes, so they will prefer thinner women because their clothes will look more how they meant them to look.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 05:11:46
As I said there is no disputing in regards to taste. If you like women of a different type than I do why should you have to defend yourself. It is your taste.
I was in no way implying that men who like thin women are gay. What I did say, if you read my post again, is that it seems to me that the fashion industry is dominated by homosexual men who prefer boys and choose models that look like boys. This has had a deleterious effect on woman who follow fashion (think anoxeria/bulimia).
Another point is that shape is only one factor, the visual one. I have met mesomorphic women who left me cold, no chemistry what so ever. However, I have met slender women with whom there was tremendous chemistry. Another factor I find very important is the sound of a woman’s voice. I don’t care what she looks like if her voice sounds like finger nails scratched on a blackboard I’m out of there. I recall once when I lived in NYC seeing these very beautiful women come to where I was staying but as soon as they opened their mouths and that nasal NY accent came out all my illusions were broken.
Having said that, all other things being equal I would prefer a mesomorphic woman. But that is just me, you can like what appeals to you. It doesn’t mean you are gay, it just means you have different taste than me and that requires no apologies from you.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 05:26:25
“I think gay designers do affect the fashion industry’s idea of female beauty, but what drives it even more is something much simpler than that: Designers choose who models their clothes, so they will prefer thinner women because their clothes will look more how they meant them to look.”
Agreed. But you last sentence suggests to me that clothes they design would not look like they way they envisaged them on a normal woman with curves. That suggests that when they design clothes they envisage a different form which they then cloth and on which the clothes look good. In other words they start the design process with a slender androgynous person in mind. Could that person be their ideal of male beauty? A youthful male. Just thinking out loud .
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 05:34:50
@Abagond..
There is a dimension that you are not addressing with regards to gay male designers.
If you notice, many of these models have boyish figures, straight, no hips, no chest.
People design for what they like, what they see as beautiful and the fashion industry has for years pushed the ‘girl who really has boy figure’ as beautiful.
Not a manish figure, but a boyish figure.
The only difference tends to be that the supermodels tend to have big hair.
If you think about it, designers design for their ideal and their ideal is a boyish figure, that;s why supermodels and successful models are the way they are today.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 08:11:00
Abagond, thanks for your fair approach.
Mesomorph, I did re-read your comment. Understand that this is a very sore spot for me. If you’ll scoll up, my username used to be “thin” and you’ll understand why. I initally came to this site because, I like that it celebrated black women. But was disappointed to read some of the negative comments about thin women. I decided to come back once the topics were more inclusive.
Like I said, the fashion industry may have it’s share of gay males, but the promienent straight males still use thin models. I really don’t think it has anything to do with homo-eroticism so much as it has to do with, clothes honestly showcase or hang better on those models.
To me, most of the top models don’t look androgenous at all. They just look like pretty women who happen to be thin.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 09:51:51
and i don’t see why thin women that are models look like boys and i think it’s wrong to call thin women that just as much it’s wrong to call thicker women fat. if you look at the healthy models, the ones that don’t have bones sticking out, they have nice figures and a woman as well.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 11:09:18
There seems to be some kind of rebellion in the fashion industry against having the famished waif look on fashion models. There have even been calls for having models medically examined to see if they are healthy. By the way, this type of look dominates on the Cat-walk but may not be as prominent in magazines.
If straight fashion designers also use thin shapeless girls it is simply a case of going with the flow and keeping in step with what is in “fashion.” After all they are fashion designers (-:
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 11:12:57
Maybe we are not on the same page. To me a girl can be both slim and shapely. The girls on the Cat-walk are so straight you could draw lines with them. They have no curves. So it is not a matter of thin it is a matter of having no curves.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 12:06:08
To me there are 5 stages of body weight proportions for a woman:
Skinny – Slim/Slender – Thick/Normal – Chubby – Fat
Skinny – No meat, no curves, just skin & bones and underweight. Examples – Supermodels and Amy Winehouse.
Slim/Slender – meat and curves, just a little bit under weight. e.g. Stacy Keibler, Halle Berry, Eva Longoria Parker.
Thick/Normal – meat and curves, normal healthy weight. e.g. Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, Selma Hayek.
Chubby – meat and curves just a bit overweight e.g. Jennifer Hudson, Raven Symone.
Fat – too much meat, lost their curves, roly poly and overweight. e.g. Americans in general, Mo’Nique.
That’s it. I’m prepared for the criticism!
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 21:28:41
Feminism is off-topic here.
Sun 8 Nov 2009 at 23:35:26
just because beyonce and kim have curves doesn’t mean they’re normal or healthy because any body type can be healthy or unhealthy. and not all supermodels are underweight and have just skin and bones. plus halle berry and stacey dash are thin women who happen to be healthy and not underweight, not even a little. and beyonce is not even thick anymore. kim is not that thick herself. she has a big butt but her body looks small compare to women like serena, bria, lisa raye, women who are thick built. i don’t see why if women don’t have curves they’re considered not womanly enough. i understand people have preferences but to put a body type down, it’s like you’re doing the same thing like hollywood is doing. telling women that they’re not beautiful but i guess that’s me.
Mon 9 Nov 2009 at 00:24:06
Vindicator, I agree with your assessment to a point. But I don’t agree with the thick being classified, normal/healthy. I agree with Lilvina on that. Halle and the others look extremely healthy. In fact, because they are slender as they get older or have children, they have more leaway for a little more weight. So if they gained more weight, they’d only fall into the thick category.
Nothing against any size woman, though.